Um, I don't see you guys on the Zoom. Are you going to stay off or do you know? >> I'm going. No, I probably won't cut. >> I wasn't planning on it. >> Okay. I was expecting Jean Russell to be on, but she's not here. So, >> you can do the slides from over there.
>> Yeah. Usually, when I try to share my screen, bad things happen. >> Oh, except I've got a myself. >> Do you need a hot one? >> No, I got it. I don't know if hybrid is a blessing or a curse sometimes truthfully >> like
>> recording in progress. >> Oh, there's Jean. >> All right. We'll just hop in. >> Okay. Um, good evening. Uh, today is Wednesday, November 5th. It is 7 p.m. and this is a
meeting of the Lunberg Capital Planning Committee. Uh, in accordance and and I'm calling this meeting to order. In accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be available to be found on the Loomberg
Access YouTube channel after the meeting. Uh to view remotely, you can use uh the Zoom link that is found in the agenda, which is posted on the town website and at town hall. The agenda lists all topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably
anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law. Uh so having called the meeting to
order, the next item on the agenda is public comment. Is there any public comment? All right. Seeing none, we will move to chair's report. Uh my chair's report is
very brief. Uh this week um Chris Manard informed me that he is not going to be able to attend uh at least this week and next week uh due to business travel. Uh but he has asked for uh members of the finance committee uh
to sit in on the meetings and perhaps to ask questions as needed. Uh on his behalf, I thought that was a good idea and uh accepted that proposal on behalf of the committee. And tonight, Jean Russell will be joining us uh remotely in that capacity. So, welcome, Jean. Um
your your video is very uh uh cloudy, so >> she's there somewhere. >> Yeah, I'm sure you're back there somewhere in the in the fog. Um okay. Um, also this week I had hoped to put together a uh spreadsheet that sort of
consolidates all of the um uh all of the requests uh in a way that we can look at both the FY27 in one tab and do our work in terms of prioritizing um but also look more broadly at the out
years and have a conversation hopefully in December or January uh in terms of providing some feedback to the department heads um about requests that that sit beyond FY27. Unfortunately, I am not there yet. I have got a
spreadsheet formatted and that's as far as I've gone. So, um bear with me on that and ideally by next week I'll have something to share and we'll also have presentations uh from what do we have next week? >> Facilities. >> Just facilities next week.
>> Yeah, I think that's it. >> All right. So, and then we'll uh we'll be off and running. So, uh, we started a little late, but we might actually get this thing back on track when it's all said and done. So, uh, downtown manager, do you have a report? >> I do not. >> Okay. Well, moving right along then.
Okay. Uh, Chief Sullivan, you are first in the shoot. Let me figure out how to share again. >> Probably better luck than I do. >> I did it once, so I'm sure I can do it again.
How's that? >> Looks good. >> A lot quicker than I would have gotten it. >> All right, Chief. >> All right. Good evening. Uh, if you can go to the next slide. Again, this is for the FY27 plan with an outlook out to
FY37 for Oz. Some changes from last year's plan. The main ones are moving squad 3, the rescue pumper, which is one of the big ticket items, out to FY29 that I'll explain. Moved up the replacement of one of the
brush trucks, engine two, to this year. And moving car one, which is the chief's car, and the pickup truck, out to FY20 and 30, respectively. mostly because they're running in real good shape and we don't have any issues with them right now. So, next slide.
So, that's an overview uh of the whole plan uh down through to FY37. I'll touch on each one of those as as we go along. Next slide. So FY27 uh main thing for us this year is replacing engine 2, which is our
light to medium brush truck at around $335,000. Uh we went for an assistance to firefighters grant. Uh it's a federal grant for that truck this year. Uh 99.9% sure we did not get it. There were a few
departments that were awarded and then the federal government shut down and you can't get a hold of anybody to answer a phone. I was told they did everything in one round, but that was by a chief that received an award. I don't know that 100%. There was always a small minute
point that we might see something on it, but I'm not holding my breath. Uh replacement. This truck's bumped along on the capital plan for a while. Uh we've moved it out because it wasn't a super high use vehicle. What we've seen is with everything that's been going on with brush fires, it's picked up and the
wear and tear on it has been noticeable. And that last year we had to redo most of the front end in the truck ball joints, tie rod ends when it went into a death wobble on me going down the road. >> Sorry, keep going. Keep going. Uh, this
year it's gone on two out of nine runs. First call replaced the reonator in it. Second call, we thought it was a radiator hose. Now it's a radiator hose, a water pump, and it's what we do for needing a badly needing a tuneup. So, it's out of service at highway department right now. So, we're looking
at the discussion has been a complete replacement. The picture on the screen, the top one is the existing vehicle. The bottom one is an example of a replacement vehicle. It wouldn't be that. In fact, it wouldn't be a four-door. It probably be a cab and a half.
But again, uh, next slide. Uh, it's a light medium forest fire unit for us. It's designed and equipped to go off-road where the bigger trucks can't. It's basically an F550 chassis, all-wheel drive lifted up with the off-road tires. Uh, we're seeing
increased callouts. I expected to see a lot more this year. We're still in a drought, but the rain has kept it from at least getting fires started. We were seeing it more earlier in the season and earlier in the spring. Don't know what we're going to get, but it's
it's a concern and that uh this new unit would double the water carrying capacity from the existing truck. It would also increase the pump size. Uh it would also add some storage capacity. the other truck has no space to put protective clothing beyond what the guys are
wearing in the truck and that a lot of stuff is kind of jammed onto it and that this would give us a little bit more room. Uh, next level >> I'm looking at my screen, not that one. >> U, it would have a prime mover capability, i.e. could tow a trailer
like the existing truck. uh gives us some year round functionality for service calls, arcing wires, things like that. Can give us access in where some of the larger vehicles can't go. It certainly give us an increased uh reliability and over the other truck that we're finding the other trucks spending a lot
of time in the shop. Uh definitely increased safety. This truck's the existing vehicle is a 1989. It does not have air brakes. It does not have anti-lock brakes and that it has seat belts which is encouraging. Uh like I
said, the existing truck right now is 36 years old. We had talked about trying to do a remount on the body and we would still be in the point of still having a smaller pump, smaller tank, less storage space. It would gain us a chassis, but it wouldn't gain us much of anything
else. We've looked at it. We bounced that around internally for a while and it's just I think it's going to be better to just look at replacing the whole vehicle. >> Is this the truck that was repurposed at some point or was that a different >> That's the water rescue truck. Okay. Which is that's still in process.
>> Okay. >> Cuz we were using the ambulance for after we got the new one, we had to put the old one back in service for a while. >> So, >> okay. >> But uh I think uh you can go to the next slide. I think that was it ones too.
>> Can I ask a question for you? Um, so when you talk about double the pump size and double the water size, what's can you just explain for those that might be listening what the impact to the operations and attack? >> The existing truck runs 150 gallons of water and has about 150 gallon per
minute pump. Originally that truck carried more water and it was very overweight when they when we redesigned it and that we dropped the amount of water because we were concerned about the truck being overloaded and that 150 gallons of water even on a brush fire doesn't buy us a
lot of time and that the pump is limited. The pump is also while it comes on that module that at the time it was not fire service grade we've already had to replace all the valves on it. Uh we've had to do some work on it. The new unit would carry 300 gallons of water. The
pump would be about 200 250 gallon capacity and it's a buyer pump. It's got a diff brass valves that don't corrode and break within a couple of years. U plus would still have the same foam capacity.
>> How frequently do you get calls for, you know, a call that would require this type of equipment? You know, I I know there's brush fires all the time. there people who are doing stuff in their backyard that gets out of control that you can drive a you can you can drive a normal fire truck up to >> sometimes sometimes you can't. So, uh
we've been fortunate we haven't been out in the woods a lot. >> We probably had around a dozen. And the other thing is we haven't used this truck as much because she's been getting tired. We've taken it out a couple times, put it in four-wheel drive, and then needed the mechanic and a sledgehammer to get it out of four-wheel drive because it jammed in. It's just
it's an old technology. You know, there was a discussion at one point, if you remember the slides from last year about, you know, modifying the pickup truck into that and just replacing the pickup. The problem with that is a it's going to put the weight to about the maximum on
that chassis and you're going to lose almost all your storage space. That truck has a utility body, but the compartments are about that deep, would have no place to put hose on it. We can only carry minimum tools. It would actually be taking a step backwards. And that truck still sees use as a as a snow plow for us for clearing the parking
lot. This truck would not be doing that. >> Do you have an idea what the relative cost would be of actually going down that path to to retrofit a pickup and then buy a new pickup? >> It would be it would be less than that, but it Yeah, I think you're probably still in 100 120 by the time you're all
done. >> So, and you're getting a a lesser function vehicle and a vehicle that's probably more maxed out on its at its weight carrying capacity. The >> existing the pickup is an F350. >> It's an F350 single rear wheel. So
10,000 GBW. This truck would be an F550. So it's probably around a 17 to 18,000lb chassis. So it would have it would have some wiggle room >> on its weight. So >> what will become the old vehicle?
>> It will go out to municip and I probably have know several people who will be standing in line with >> What do you think? brag that they >> I I don't know. I'm not a I'm not a car salesman. I think something >> Yeah, it's you know with municip I don't
know. I don't deal with that. But I'm guessing if you got four or five grand you'd be lucky. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It it really can surprise you sometimes. Sometimes things that you're praying that they'll come and take off your lot for a dollar. >> There's a bidding war for some reason.
But if sometimes with the fire items, the collectors can get interested. >> And this truck is not it's not something that a collector would be after. >> It's a GMC chassis with a farm body and a skid unit on it. So there's no >> I'm into I'm into square body.
>> I'm into antiques fire trucks and that and it's not something that would somebody would be looking for. Somebody would be looking for it because it's a truck with a farm button and that that take it out of their farm and put it to work. Yeah, it's definitely not something we're hanging on to. Okay, so any other questions on engine two?
If not, next slide. So, going out beyond FY27, uh FY28 would be looking at replacing the 2019 ambulance uh at an estimated cost of 615,850.
That's based on the pricing of Let me get this right. a pricing of the ambulance that we have now that was ordered in 2023 with a 5% per year increase that I think I sent out to everybody there which is where I base
them. Yeah, it's rescue one from FY24. Uh that's a planned replacement. And as I mentioned last year, my thought would be whether I'm there to see it through or not would be to make this truck a mechanical spare. You would hang on to it, keep it as a mechanical spare.
So ultimately what you would uh see on ambulance right now ambulances are a 10 year lifespan for us. Five years front line 5 years backup. If you can go to the next slide I'll just kind of touch on that. So basically what you would get out of
this would be ultimately you get 12 years out of a vehicle. You'd get four years as a primary ambulance. heaviest usage I'll I'd throw in a number of say we're doing around 1300 ambulance calls a year primary ambulance does about 85% of them
so that's probably about a you know roughly a thousand of them backup ambulance would be four years that one seeing about 300 calls a year or so and then four years is a mechanical spare which would basically just be put back in service when one of the other vehicles goes out of service and this is
strictly so we're not down to one ambulance we run two ambulance es we've been getting busier. This would give us one that we could put back in service, which we've sort of done this year when we had the other one. We got the new truck in it went back for its punch list
and spent a week a month at the dealership. The other truck had to go out to have the turbocharger and a bunch of other stuff fixed on it. So, we kept putting that one back in service. And we can't do that now because we didn't renew the ambulance license on it because that's going to replace the 1998
dive truck, water rescue truck. and that. But the idea is that you would see less use, less maintenance. At least the first two you need to keep in service and that the foyer one if you had something cat, you know, the the backup one if you had a catastrophic failure on
it, you know, fix it. It's not worth fixing it. But the idea would be to be able to keep the other two keep two ambulances online and >> these are all parcified. >> Yeah. The the the primary two are all fitted out with ALS gear. the the
mechanical spare or reserve would not you'd move the equipment over off the other truck. Okay. And that when you needed it for something, it wouldn't be like, okay, we're up to three ambulance calls that you'd run that third truck. You'd be going mutual aid at that. So,
you know, I I think everyone knows I have a my primary bias is not to add vehicles to the fleet unless we know we need them. Um because then you know your next replacement is the vehicle that you just
thought you replaced is kind of the you know is kind of the mantra that that I am a little bit uh resistant to a lot resistant to I guess if you can um
I I think the me um I I I think I'm very sensitive to this issue here though particularly considering you know the news over the last year plus with respect to Nishoba >> and they are seeing a lot more use
>> and what's happening with your department as a result of that um I'm also wondering you know we we saw some state money come this year that was you know supposed to
be oriented to these kinds of services there So we weren't including >> so well no so so we are receiving funding the funding has now gone to DPH >> DPH >> and DPH is going to determine how those funds
can be expended through some kind of advisory or regulatory statement >> none of the chiefs have heard >> and we have not heard one word of what allowable expenditures will be >> right >> what what I will say that I've said to the chief what I don't want to do with
those funds is I don't want to put on on ongoing recurring items on one time cost. >> So, so we would be looking for one time type things, right? >> But we don't know what those parameters are yet. >> Okay. But yeah, we >> but I like
>> we know what the ask was was same amount for every community and and we don't know. >> Well, it's a little frustrating here is is to my knowledge we had the money because our legislators spiked the football immediately when when it was passed. So
>> felt like if it went to EOPS, we'd probably see the money by it. Correct. It went to DPH and it's buried in DPH somewhere. >> Whether that was by design, I don't think that's anything against our legislators. I think that's ends at a different >> It ends in a different office down there and I'll leave it at that. >> Yeah.
>> Apparently they spiked the ball on the one yard line, >> right? >> Yeah. Sounds like it. Oh, like like you say, I I mean we haven't the last time we added a vehicle to the fleet was 2009 that we increased our rolling stuff. The department has changed sign.
>> Well, if I if I understand it, adding this ambulance, the third one is not really going to be running. It's just going to reserve if it's needed. So, it's not going to be ordinarily incurring any expenses. >> It should not. It had basic operational
expenses, >> oil change, stuff like that. If it drops a motor or a transmission, it's going to go go away. It's not going to be worth fixing. >> Y >> it's the idea to fill in. If you go to the next slide, I didn't update it for uh
actually it was up to 2024 just showing our run volume. And then the next slide is the one I didn't go up to 2024 yet, but it just showed the amount of time that one of the one of the trucks was out of service either for maintenance uh
things like that. Unfortunately, the maintenance they are maintenance intensive especially to keep the state happy. Uh and it always seems like if we send it to the dealership, it's never a one day job. It's drop it off on Monday, pick it up on Friday. I don't care if it's to
change a light bulb. It almost seems to be the same thing. >> One of these years you had a police car crash in the two if I recall correctly. >> Well, techn technically you hit a police cruiser, but actually did not hit a police cruiser. You hit a guardrail trying to avoid a police
that that poor that poor trucks seen and that that truck was hit twice head on the hospital. >> That truck's had a had a hard life. >> Wow. And like I you know say back in 2008 89 we retired an ambulance that's actually functioning as the dive truck
right now. It retired at 47,000 miles. The 2019 is over 74,000 now. And the one that just retired is creeping towards 100. It's in the 90s and that's a 2014. That's the
difference in wear and tear and mileage that they're seeing nowadays. Any questions on that? Again, price would be once we get closer to it, you get a better idea on the numbers.
>> Yeah, I mean it we we also obviously need to make sure that as we as we get to this that we've got a a more accurate or more precise number. Absolutely. The other thing that we obviously and this is a conversation
for a different part of the meeting or ideally another meeting is we do need to have a look at the special purpose stabilization fund respect to these to these purchases and think about >> do we want is that for big trucks or midsize trucks right you know's where's
the threshold >> is there a million dollar line or is it below a million dollar line whatever right like we got to figure that out so >> yeah I I try to go in the worst case scenario and then when we get closer we'll have a yeah >> a more accurate number. >> Do we need to adjust the timeline for
the lead time? >> That is something to be discussed. I have heard of some communities that have allowed chiefs to sign for these vehicles and then appropriate the money later. Ambulance is 48 months. Uh the brush
truck would be 18 months. Ambulance is about 24 months. Fire truck is 36 to 48 months right now. whether that's going to change. If you Google fire apparatus class action suit, there's a lot of interesting reading about how basically four three or four private equity
companies own all the fire apparatus manufacturers >> and how that's affected the costs and driven them skyhigh and >> caused them to used to be a year to get a fire truck in six months in an ambulance. So, remains to be seen what comes of that.
I I think that's something we should probably explore. The only thing I would caution you is we got to make sure that we do it right >> with the having the >> this is just like this is like the payment discussion we had last week, right? Like I I I know the corporations policy and committing and obligating
ourselves as >> right you know and the manu a lot of the manufacturers the deal was looking go if you don't buy it we'll sell it to somebody else because there's people >> oh yeah >> desperate for them because they can't wait that long. >> Oh maybe that's maybe that's something to
explore. Maybe those agreements that the chiefs were striking were to order it but without obligating the funds because there would they knew knowingly would be another. >> We just need to know we just need >> getting it in the queue. That was what came up with the ARA fun but one of the ambulances was to get it in the queue
prices went up again. So yeah, I mean I'm I think that given the circumstances we're in, reasonable people in town leadership and town meeting >> would, you know, see this as a reasonable conclusion.
>> Yeah. >> We just need to make sure that if we go down that path, we're doing it right. Correct. >> Absolutely. >> All right. Uh next slide. Uh so an FY28 was replacing uh car one, chief's car. Uh we moved that out a
year. The mileage is still relatively good. We put some money into it last year. It's been doing fine. And honestly, my time's creeping down. I would rather leave it for the next guy coming in and he can decide what he needs for a vehicle. I've always operated. I'm right here in town. It
operates for me more like a city deputy chief that I'm carrying equipment with me. I'm responding on a lot of calls. That could change with somebody depending on where they live or what they're doing. And it's not an issue right now. So, I think pushing that out is not going to hurt us at all. The car
is doing fine right now. And like I say, it may give you some different options down the road on a smaller vehicle, different style. >> Is that So, I was going to ask that question. Is there a smaller vehicle option on these vehicle? It depends on what you >> had this discussion with the police
chief a million years ago when we went from the midsize SUVs to the full size SUVs and then back. >> It's a function like again like the car that we're we're waiting to come in now. We went from an Explorer to a pickup truck because it wasn't enough room in it with that. Again, I carry an air
pack, full first aid kit, the fibrillator, uh a bunch of other equipment with me because that's how I respond in town. If you had a chief that maybe was responding more as an ad administrative function and wasn't responding as as many calls, they might
not need as big of a vehicle. They could use something smaller. And that's why I say I think that's a decision to be made down the road and look at I look at that, you know, that's working for what I do and the way I operate, but you know, things are changing. >> Yeah. >> So,
next slide. This one we pushed out a couple of years. That was on there for this year. Uh we had a long talk internally. We put 65,000 into this truck back in FY21. Uh replaced a lot of components. It was
sort of a midlife extension. This probably our highest use of the big trucks, but it's holding up pretty well. And we kind of all felt that engine two was the higher priority for this year. So we moved this out. Again, this truck functions as our heavy rescue unit.
Plus, it's a pumper, carries pump, water, hose, but it carries a lot of the rescue equipment, light tower. We had a rough number for a quote of 1.3 million based on that vehicle as it sits. There were a lot of things that we would probably change. Uh, so I've stayed with
my original number. If moving out a couple years, that's a 5% increase each year and it puts it right in that same range. But there's a lot of things, you know, the lighting is different. We might not be doing some stuff with that. It's not going to need the built-in jaw system because everything's battery
powered. Much more of the stuff is going to battery operated, which changes the needs of the vehicle. So, that number is again probably on the high end for that. >> What year is that? >> That is a 2008. Got indoctrinated in the ice storm.
>> Still got a few scars from it, too. Mhm. >> We know. >> Yes, we do. Uh, next slide. Just kind of covered what I talked about. Again, it had an overhaul in 21. We originally planned it for 27, but figured engine two was the bigger priority for this
year, and it's in good shape. We're not seeing any big mechanical problems with it or anything like that. So I think we can push it out a little bit and then maybe again maybe have a little more money in the special purpose stabilization by that time. Maybe things
will stabilize with apparatus costs a little bit then too. >> Okay. U the next you can touch on the next slide. We had talked about the grant funding again. We just tried for that with engine two because that was the only truck that would qualify.
That may still be out there with anything federal right now. Your guess is as good as mine. My crystal ball doesn't work that well. Uh this is what it was currently. Uh it was an 8020 match if we went for it. So for that truck, it would have been about 262,000
on our end. The brush truck would have been about 1,500,000 if we had gotten it. But they've kicked it up. The truck's got to be over 20 years old now. The truck would probably qualify for that end of it. But they also look at the average age of the
fleet and our fleet is still relatively on the newer side. And that and I recalculated that in FY29 the average age is about 14 for the latch stuff because the next oldest truck would would be 10 12 years old. So and the
other one would only be seven eight something like that. It seems like a perverse incentive to let your vehicles age. I'll tell you what though, when you go into like the fly over states, I was in
Utah last week in Hinterland over that weekend >> and I saw a running fire truck while I was out there that had like the open thing in the back, you know, like >> the like now you have doors on the the
back doors, but this is with the reverse seat and open air. >> So like that that vehicle had to be 40 years old. Imagine, right? like and I >> you know was running it was like >> we had a conversation some of the old trucks you could get 40
years out of like everything else >> think about some of the old cars >> but like a lot of these rural departments in the middle of nowhere they've got a lot of land to cover and they're running very old equipment you know that's what we're competing with >> right that's that's the challenge and yeah that's what this kind of grant funding was designed for to help these
people out and it used to be a lot wider our engine 5 the big brush truck was actually one of the first AFG grants that we got that on. So now it's a lot tighter and the trucks have got to be a lot older and that to
get rid of. So all right. Uh next slide or I should say any questions on the squad beyond that >> now an affordable vehicle. >> Again FY30 is the pickup right now. The pickup's still low mileage. Uh I didn't
I forgot to update the mileage number. It's like it's 3549 currently. That truck, you know, and that mileage will probably go down if we're not having to use it to run to the academy and that is much. Uh it's in good condition with it's uh the Ford aluminum sheet metal
and the body is aluminum so it's not corroding. Uh we didn't go with the diesel engine on that. We went with a gas. So we've had very few issues with that. That's sort of our main prime mover. Uh haul equipment back from fire scenes. Uh we plow our own parking lot
and maintain it. So it does that for us. Plus we've got a snow plow. If we can go up, you know, need to get up a driveway in a snowstorm. The officer can usually go out ahead of the ambulance, punch a hole through, get the ambulance in there. So that originally we were at the 10 year mark on that and it's like the
truck's fine. It can it can go out of ways. So next slide. Uh 30. Uh this is the card the first batch of cardiac monitors that we bought when we went paramedic will be coming up in the 10 year mark. So I looked at
spacing them over two fiscal years. 40 grand is was basically based off the number we got when we bought them at 5% per year. That number may not be that high. Uh the monitors can go past 10 years, but I do know a department that
has older ones and they discover, yeah, we can't service these anymore. We're not going to fix them. So now they're in the point of we have to buy a monitor because we have to be able to show the state when they inspect us that we've had these maintained. >> And so that's basically just a planned
replacement for that. And uh next slide FY31 would be the same thing. Uh that may be we might retain one of them as a spare and that that that'll be determined at that point whether whether
it's feasible or not. So FY32, it says replace the 2019 ambulance. This would be getting a new truck in the 20 the one bought in 2028 would be come to spare and the 2019
truck would actually get you get rid of you dispose of it at that point. This is just working into that three vehicle cycle. And again, estimated cost whether they're going to go up that much, I don't know. That's based on a 5% a year off the last truck that we bought. So,
never thought I'd even see see spending half a million dollars on an ambulance. Uh, next slide. FY33 is uh the heavy duty brush truck. This is the one that we got off an AFG grant. Uh, it would be coming around 30
years old at that point. Again, truck's in really good shape right now. uh after it tried to catch on fire. We fixed that. Uh for an older truck, it's in really good shape. That's it's a brush truck, but it also serves as a uh functional reserve pumper because it has
a fullsize fire pump, 500 gallons of water, couple of air packs. It can function in that role. Uh if I was still here by then, my thought would be to replace it with a small tanker and that since we have a lot of areas in town that uh don't have hydrants, but that's
going to be up to chief then. So uh let's see, next slide. And the next one would be out to FY35, which would be replacing engine one and it would be 20 years old at that point. And again, that's based off of when we
bought engine 4 and FY20 with a 5% increase. And that's basing it at that point on 20 year lifespan, which is I've always figured 20 years on the pumpers, 25 on the ladder, 30 in the brush trucks is how I've always based that. And again, we always kind of reassess it as
we get nearer. That truck's our mutual aid truck, so that runs out of town. That one gets a fair amount of use, but right now it's in good shape somewhere. And I had nothing. Oops, wrong way. FY36, I'm sorry. Uh was again recycling,
replacing an ambulance. >> Wow, look at that price. >> Yeah. Again, that's going up 5% each year. And >> right, >> it's some years they they >> a million dollars. 5% is a lot of money. >> Yeah. And you know what? It's probably not going to be that bad, but who knows?
>> Who knows? >> I don't remember if it was you or Dave Pacio that questioned me on that. And I took the number that we paid for the 1935 Mac and took it up to the 2015 engine 5% a year. I was only 50 grand off >> for something that was like 70 80 years
old. So some years it's not and other years it's crazy. >> So >> and I believe that was it. >> Speaking of which, >> there and we have to fix something in the transmission and the solder on that
right now. Put that on a bed. >> That one's a lot easier to fix. >> Only two guys can drop the transmission. Only weighs about 80 lbs. >> So, >> any questions? >> I don't have any, gentlemen.
>> No, I'm all set. Thank you, Chief. >> All right, Jean. >> Thank you. Okay. >> All right. We're making good progress here. Let me bring up Another deck. >> Is he going to go as easy on you? No. >> No.
>> Okay. >> It can't. >> You're the only one that's got toys as bad as mine. >> Yeah. DPW. >> Thanks, G. I'll just email you. >> I'm going to see you tomorrow at 9:45.
>> That's true. Talk to you then because there's nothing nothing big. Do you need mine? >> Do I have it up? >> Protest. >> Oh, you good? >> It's done. I couldn't get my mouse to work last night. I know >> it could.
>> That was weird though. There was something going on with your laptop. >> Well, it was new as of yesterday. >> All right, I guess I'm up. >> Bill, DPW request. So, let's go to the next slide, which is a
norm chart just to show kind of small, right? We have six people on the highway side and one full-time in cemetery and some seasonal help and sewer kind of falls under me but that's an enterprise fund so it funds itself so
there's nothing there. >> How are you doing with staffing? >> Right now we are fully staffed. >> Great. >> Yeah. >> It had been a while though. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. most of the summer short
staffed and then we had one guy out for most of the summer. So we were really short. >> Good. Well, I'm glad we're back at it for winter. >> Yeah. Oh, for sure. So, the next slide Kevin just explains what the highway division is, right? We
do the roads, drains, storm water signs, trees, anything on the road, we maintain it. And we got a lot of features, right? 90 miles of road, almost 1500 catch basins. on and on. Right.
The next slide is just explaining the cemetery division. We have three cemeteries, the two main ones, north and south. We got the little one over at Fifth Street. And then we have fleet maintenance and I took a picture of the chief's truck because it's sitting in my garage. >> Is that right?
>> It is. >> Right. So, we take care of all the highway trucks and police and fire. So always busy in the garage. Uh the request can be broken down into
four basic categories. It's truck and equipment schedule replacements, uh drainage infrastructure, um pipe cover, bridge repairs or replacements, um assault shed replacement, and cemetery repairs. It's our four basic
categories. And most of it is one and two. The next slide is a u the truck and equipment schedule replacements. So the American Public Works Association says for pickup trucks seven years, the
federal government says six years. We're going to get 10 years out of them. >> Oh yeah. >> Right. So the dump trucks, you know, the the public works association seven and 10. The feds say
um N and we're going 14, which I think we can get out on. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the trick is going to be with the heavy dump trucks is we bought a whole bunch at once. So, we got to think about how we're going to stagger them.
>> Yeah. So, that's a concern, but >> you know, 13 years, >> it's a good problem to have. Uh so those those trucks um are basically winter trucks only. So we're probably going to get longer out of them, >> right? As long as we're taking care of
them, which we are. So the next slide is a list of all the equipment and the scheduled replacement based on that chart. And so all the requests, capital requests are based off of this for
vehicles. Uh so the train's infrastructure we can use chapter 90 funds right there's you know chapter 90 funds basically anything on the road road maintenance you can buy some equipment too
>> so I put that in there but the next slide shows my chapter 90 spending plan and this is above and beyond all the capital requests although some of them Um, you know, further out they have various
drainage upgrades. Some of these repairs are going to be rather costly. So, we might have to use capital funds. We might have to use chapter 90 funds. And we'll we'll try to get as many grants as we can. So, we just can't rely on chapter 90
funds for all the stuff I'm going to request here. >> Are we going to get to a point where we're going to have a um storm water >> ility Well, that remains to be seen. >> Um, there is an article on this upcoming
special town meeting warrant for additional transferring old capital to um fund consultant the remaining consultant work at $42,900 that would bring the town to a point
where they could present the option of a storm water utility to the voters at town meeting. So, we're at that point. We're doing the leg work and trying to obtain the necessary funding to do the leg work to present that option, >> right? So that would help with this
effort, but it won't pay for everything again. >> No, I understand. >> Yeah. But I mean, every little bit helps because these are expensive things. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. So >> yeah, drainage work is much cheap.
Does the would a utility are there things on this list that a utility would not pay for when it comes to like coverts and swelles and all that kind of thing. >> It can pay for smaller jobs. Right. So
what I have on here is the bigger jobs. >> Right. >> Right. Maybe we could >> smaller jobs just because it's not going to be funded to the level that would be able to afford it or some other some other issue. Right. So, well, what I mean is um like Malpus Road, we paved
that this year and we went out and fixed all the drainage along the way, right? >> It would fund that kind of job, >> right? We replaced some pipes and we opened up some head walls and got the drainage working pretty good over there. >> Okay.
>> So, it would fund that kind of work, >> but it's not fix the bridge on road. >> So, we have a 72 in pipe. It's not going to touch that. And we have a few of those. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> So, the next slide is my
>> capital request for the next 10 years. >> There's a lot more on it than the chief had. Right. >> Yeah. >> But look at that spreadsheet. >> Yeah. It's a nice spreadsheet. >> Note the colors. >> I love those colors.
>> Yeah. Could you um if you haven't already uh built, can you send me that in a soft copy like in a Excel file? >> Yeah, send that. Y >> So the file has this that's what you see in plus it has all the slides and I just
copied and paste out of so yeah, great. Yeah, but I we need to do something like this for your laggered peers that didn't do this. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. >> So, we're going to use your base.
>> Exactly. Example. >> Yeah. Build off of it. >> All right. So, the next slide is fiscal 27, which is what we're most concerned with. Right. And again, it's it's um drainage work
and equipment >> in the snow and ice the the so shed. So let's get into it. So the first project um is the flatill bridge over the catun brook
>> which should be 100% complete but we had a contractor that didn't follow through for us so here we are asking for money for it. Um, the amount of money I requested is $350,000
and I base that off of the bids that we got for the the job. So, the average bid was what did I say? 1.13 million. And that was that was two years ago. So,
of course, price is probably going to be up. So, um, we're going to need money. We have some money, right? We have a grant from Mass, $600,000. We have 300,000 in FY22 capital funds
for this project. So, I $900,000 there. Probably going to need another 50,000 for engineering. And I'm anticipating the construction cost of the bridge will be 1.2 million. Right. So, I don't think we're going to
need 1.25 for the million for the bridge. We have 900,000. There's a way to get the 350,000 from >> Have we expended funds on this already? >> Some we have >> some funds. >> Yeah. >> Um, we have not we have not paid
anything to the vendor under the contract. Right. Correct. Right. But we have paid >> we've paid for the engineering that was an FY that anyway but but this whole thing with the with the contractor flaking out that hasn't
>> we have not done >> no um and you know I don't there may be some associated costs with that going forward which remain to be seen um but at this point
there aren't. >> Okay. Yeah, I mean I think editorial com commentary here. Um, we got we started this project, we got to finish it. >> Well, and the bridge is now closed.
>> Yeah, it's it's quite a detour. >> It is quite a detour. the I think that you know this is one of these issues where you got it's not like you know we fund the schools you're going to have a
neighborhood right you're going to you know that you're going to mobilize the entire end of town if we don't fix this >> yeah the detail 15 minutes >> for some >> um and I mean I think we got to we got to figure out how to do it
Has there has there been any thought given to whether we have any recourse against the contractor for damages or anything? >> Uh those discussions have been had. >> Um they're unlikely to bear fruit.
>> Okay. Um I the representations made at any meeting with this contractor is this was going to be their last job as they wound down their operations. >> Okay.
Um >> yeah. So couple other things to note. It is closed to traffic. Mass DOT inspects it every three months. So it's costing them money to to come out there. It's, you know, a regular bridge is every two years and they're there every three months. >> Okay.
>> So, >> it's costing the tax breaks all over. >> Yeah. Um I I think just for whatever it's worth, I think if this does come to town meeting, we're going to have to make sure that we've
got a concise but adequate history >> on this project >> because there's a lot of, you know, we're getting to the point, I think, where there's some emotion here. Oh, there's definitely >> I'm sure you could speak to that better
than anybody. Um, but we we want to be able to >> present the facts, >> right? >> And just the facts here. >> Well, and you know, to the folks that are most particularly impacted by this project, the ones that live directly around it, they there were takings for
land >> for this project to happen, too. So, >> and is that done? >> Yes. >> Okay. that's behind us, >> but temporaryments, >> right, >> which we'll probably have to extend. So, there's more work to do there,
>> which may cost us more >> legal. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, there's that, too. >> This one's a hairball. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And you had to use a Masot pre-qualified
contractor on this project. And this was a mascot pre-qualified contractor on this project. >> All right. >> All right. So, my next one is a a new front and loaded. You're not going to like this beat. I want a whole
>> really >> I really do. So, we rented one last winter. So we had to and it made a big difference in operations. Uh but renting a loader is actually more costly than over the life of the loader to uh to
rent and to own. And I did did the math out here. Uh so the rental last year ended up being $6,700 per month or $80,500 for a year. Um,
you do the math for the 15 years and it's $123,000 more to rent than to own. >> Are we doing it through the year though? Did we rent this loader for the year? >> Four months just for the winter. >> So, I get a better rental deal this
year, but it's still 5,000 plus couple extra. So, it's going to be more than 5,000. So operationwise, it was great. In the in the winter, we could leave one in the yard. We could send one out on the road as needed. Uh during the summer, do we need to?
Most days, no. Occasionally, yes. It's it's the winter where it becomes critical to have two Okay. >> All right. So, the next slide. I always try to show a picture of the
existing equipment and what the new one might look like. >> Turns out not a lot different. >> No, they don't change loaders all that much. >> And the the new loader would have a snow plow. We don't have a snow plow
currently. That would help us a lot >> cuz I just it'll come with a bucket and a snow plow. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> You have to have a quick disc and I can get it right on. My next request is for a six wheel dump
truck the salt spreader. So, we have well we currently have four. We got two on order. Um they're supposed to be in this month. So that's 19 months in counting.
Uh the previous truck two trucks were 27 months. So like the chief we had those issues. And the biggest cost on these trucks is the upfitting. It's unbelievable. So
like the chassis is probably $120,000 maybe 150 about 150 on a bigger truck. Right. So, the other 250 is the to build them up, right? To put the plow and the dump and spreader on it. It's
ridiculous. Um trying to find better ways to do that, but there's only two or three vendors that do it. One of the smaller trucks we purchased with FY25 money, we kind of worked
around that. We found a little shop that was able to fab it for us way cheaper, but it was a lot more work for us, >> right? And I don't know if they can do a pick truck. >> Remains to be seen. >> Um, so refresh my memory here.
>> The the intent is to run like in a perfect world, we're running six of these. >> Seven. So we have seven routes for snow plowing and salt, >> right? >> So ideally we'd have seven trucks so we don't have to hire out a truck. So I did
a cost analysis on that and it turns out again it's cheaper to go inhouse and hire somebody. And we currently are projecting this year
we'll have four of the seven. >> We should have No, we should have six. >> Six. >> Okay. >> Right. So we have four right now. The two more are coming they said this month. So we'll see. So we should have six.
>> Okay. And the four that we have right now, those are all new or >> So one's is 1516 and then the other one's a 24 25. >> Okay. So So a couple of them >> are staggered. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. We kind of hit on it earlier. I think it was before the meeting that the two newer ones are snow only. They have frame outed spreaders. You know, I say 15 years for that truck. It probably go longer, especially the bigger one. You
know, it's pretty heavy duty. We have a 10 wheeler. Probably get a lot more life out of that one. So, but that's a problem for 15 years from now. >> You'll still be here.
>> So, so you mentioned that you had done some some costbenefit analysis on that. Do you did did you present that to us or do you have a write up on that? >> I could send you a spreadsheet. >> Okay. Yeah, I'd like to take a look. >> Yeah.
>> Just to get an idea of >> what our effects are relative to >> snow and ice for each one of these roots. >> I recently sent it to uh the finance committee. Okay. >> So Chris has it too. Um,
so I can't remember I lived in Lunberg for most of my life and when I haven't lived here, my parents have. I can't remember a winter where we didn't have contractors going up and down Pleasant Street in Brown.
>> Like, you know, I mean, >> we still >> So, I guess that's what I'm getting to here, right? is like does this like make that go away or >> bigger trucks? Yes. So, we won't have to hire a bigger trucks with salt spreaders
which are, you know, depending on the size of the truck says a spreader, you know, $200 to three over $300 an hour. >> Right. >> Right. We we won't have to hire those. We'll always need help >> the people. We'll need to still hire the
additional pe one additional person to go in one of these trucks though, right? >> Yeah. >> Like the labor, seasonal labor to drive it, >> right? But in addition to that, there's like landscaping trucks all over Lunberg that >> plowing. We'll always from plowing. >> Those are a lot cheaper, right? Again,
depending on the size of the truck, you know, 105 to $200 depending on the size. >> Okay. And and I guess how did how did we arrive at seven roots
instead of six roots for example? >> It takes them about an hour to do a route. Okay. >> So they they figured that out over the years that >> okay >> that's how the roots work. An hour is about normal. Um, I spent a lot of time
in Masdyond that it's really hard to drive in. So, >> it wouldn't be reasonable to consolidate seven routes into six routes. >> I don't think so. You'd have a declining quality of service. >> Sure. >> And are these things going at refilling
salt every time or >> Oh, no. You know, salt every time you pollute the environment, right? So, >> uh >> that's a plow room. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Right. A plow and salt. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. So, they might plow salt once and then plow two or three times and then salt again. >> Okay. >> All right. And again, couple pictures. That's what we're replacing, which we've already
sold the old one. It's gone. The new one will look something like this. >> What do we get for a used highway truck? >> Because it was uh basically a a hunk of steel and not a truck, we only had
$4,000. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So, it was literally recyclable steel. That was >> pretty >> pretty much. Yeah. Those trucks they had the 06 and the 08 they
or a bad badge or something they last. >> Yeah. >> Uh so the next one is a one ton dump truck replacement schedule replacement. Um oh so on the quotes I did get quotes on
pretty much everything. Most of them are this year. Some of the stuff that's on the out years is maybe two years old. I just bumped it up a little bit. And as we go out, like the 110 trucks, I added like $5,000.
>> Okay. >> As we go out. >> Yep. >> It's just an estimate. >> Um >> but the 27s are >> 27s should be pretty good, right? So like on this one, I got three quotes
from 76,000 up to 93,000. So, so I'm asking on the high side just in case by the time we get there. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, this is a one ton dump truck
plot. >> Yep. Yep. So, that's these trucks are used every single day, right? >> For every job. >> And this is a Ford F350. Yeah.
Right. Gas. So if you went with a detail, it would be a lot more money. You know, people with a 450 or 550. Way more money. Probably don't. But these do a good job for us.
>> Okay. Pictures. There's the old one. Potential new one. The next project is um for to hire a consultant to do design work for the new west towns and
road drainage improvements. So there's there's pipes all over what did I say? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. There's at least 11 that we've identified. Couple pictures there that they're kind of ugly. There's no
head walls. There's no guardrail. Somebody's been Where is this? Slide right off the side. >> New West Townsen. >> Yeah, it's a kind of a long road. >> Yeah. So, between the Fitsburg line and what's up to Ashfield. So, towns line.
There's a bunch of them. >> So, this is not one specific spot. This is multiple along that way. >> Yeah. 11 different spots. >> Okay. So, what I've found is there's no plans for these and a lot of them looks like
somebody said, "Hey, we need some drains here. Let's put in a 12 in pipe." >> Yeah. >> Did it work? Yeah, it worked. Is it working now? Well, not so great. >> Well, they probably been there for 50 years. Let's just throw in 12in pipe and call it a day, right?
>> Exactly. So, some of these will flood over the road at onion. Right. Again, you can see on the pictures, right? There's >> there's nothing preventing the car from going off the side of the road. There's no head walls, right? So, these things can >> Yeah., >> you know, a lot of rain can just wash
out. We've had to fix them up, right? The top one, you can see all those rocks. >> Those were placed in stock, you know, wash outs. So, we do we do to fix that road up. >> Is this road like our worst offender
when it comes to these drainage pipes? I believe so. Yes. >> What What's the ultimate project likely to cost or you have no idea at this point? >> Yeah. So, that it's hard to say. I mean, I got that in a future slide. I threw a
number at it, >> but it's until you do the design work, >> it's really hard to say. >> Yeah. >> I think most of them I put 400,000 on some jobs. This job that'll probably
work. other jobs at maybe half. >> But this is design work for the whole road. >> Yes. >> Right. >> For the whole road or just for the 11? For the whole >> That's what I mean. >> Yeah. Just the 11 pipes. >> Yeah. Yeah. But we don't have to do 11 pipes in a particular year. We can break
this up. We'll have the designs. The designs are good for, >> you know, seemingly forever, right? >> Yeah. Right. So, I just recently got a cost estimate for Goodridge Street over at Easterbrook. I don't know if anybody's
driven it. Little dip going on there. We fixed it twice. I went over it yesterday again. The the bottom of that pipe is rotted out. So, it's just sucking all the soil in. So, I got an estimate to replace
that one 112,000 just for the engineering. That's probably a million dollar replacement. >> Wow. Yeah, it's a big pipe. It's 72 inch pipe. It's further down here, but uh because of the width of the stream, it's
going to become a bridge. >> Makes it more expensive. A small bridge would >> That's what happens. >> Hopefully, these things will be uh will last a little longer than
Yeah, these Mickey Mouse jobs that were done 50 to 100 years ago, >> you know, like you said, 50 years, it's not bad. You know, the life of a pipe should be about 75 years. >> Yeah. I'm pretty certain that a lot of these things are well over 50 years.
Like, >> yeah, >> they don't probably owe anybody anything. >> That's right. >> All right. The next one is to um more money for designing again to replace our
salt barn. So, salt barn was built in the 60s, I believe. It's getting kind of old. The the roof has a hole in a few spots. It's been hit a few times, so the wooden structure is
almost fallen off the concrete structure. Um, another bad feature about it is we don't have a door. So, moisture gets in there, right? The salt when it gets moist will turn into a rock.
It's nasty. Um, and another bad thing is right now where the salt bar is and where we load is maybe 300 ft away >> and where we load is pretty close to the mus. So, you know, you dump into a
truck, there's always spillage. It's unavoidable. So, we're dumping salt probably within 100 ft of the mop. With a new salt shed, it' be big enough we can either load inside or right next to it. We'll put a ramp right next to it.
So, environmentally, it's a lot. >> So, this would be situated where the current shed is or in that >> somewhere in that area. Yeah. Probably not the exact same spot, you know. So we could construct it and keep the old one. >> Yeah.
>> But not but such that you're not loading where you're loading. >> Yeah. >> Right. So the new one will have a ramp. >> Is there already a chloride impairment on mulus? >> Not that I'm aware of, but we don't want to create. >> Turn off the camera. >> No, that's pretty public record once
there is one. But yeah. Okay. So there's no chloride impairment, >> right? So we clean up but only do so much. >> Yeah. It's not good. No, the new saw barn. Um, it would be a fabric style, right? So, it's just a
metal frame fabric. Got a couple of prices for those slides. Talk about be a lot cheaper than another wooden structure. >> Do we The current one is how old? Do we know? >> Built in the 60s. Um, I don't know if I
found it. I guess they didn't put it in there. You know what happened? >> Best I could tell it was in the 60s. Was that facility? Oh, were we using that for some?
>> All right, Rob. Do you remember? >> I don't cuz I remember the old town barn on West Street and Lemonster Road. >> I could swear there was there were sand piles over there at one point during my childhood. So, I don't know that that's
as old as we think it is. I don't know. I mean, >> there are plenty of people, I'm sure, in town who could tell us, but >> I I just don't know. >> Then the other thing that I'd like to do is upgrade our operations by using
anti-icing chemicals. By doing that, you end up using less salt. So, NASDAQ's been doing it, I don't know, over 20 years. The salt use has come way down. >> And we can't do that. We can. We can.
You just need money to do it, right? So, you need tanks. You need tanks, saddle tanks on the trucks, >> right? And spray bars. And >> um we I'd like to outfit one of the one tons with a tank and a spray bar. So,
you pre-treat the roads >> with liquid magnesium chloride. >> So, by doing that, you're not eliminating salt. You're just >> you're reducing its use. reducing it. >> Right. >> Right. So, when you put the saddle tanks
on the salt spreaders, as the salt's falling out the back, you're spraying it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've seen it done. So, >> yeah. Yeah. >> It helps two main ways. Is when it's wet, it doesn't bounce and scatter as much. So, you keep it on the road where you want it,
>> and it lowers the freezing temperature, >> so it works better. And salt needs some moisture to activate it, right? When it's 20 degrees and and less, you can salt all you want. It's just going to sit there with the ice. It doesn't do anything.
>> So, if you wet it, it works better. >> Right. >> So, is is outfitting the trucks for the anti-icing a capital item or is that something you're going to fund out of your operating budget? >> I believe it'll be a capital item. Part
of this I think we should do it together. >> Okay. So, this design work will do something feasibility. >> Yeah. Right. Storage tanks, you know, a couple 5,000 gallon tanks. You need a pad for that, right? So, that would all
be in the design of the new Okay. >> salt. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, I again, this is editorial commentary more for our executives in the room. We want some optionality here,
>> right? You know, like I'm sure there's a what we used to call a Cadillac plan and then there's a Chevy plan, you know, like >> we we need some optionality here because I just as you're talking about it, I can imagine that we're talking very big dollars, >> right? So that's probably it with So
this slide wouldn't really change. It would be that the scope that we would ask for under this would be to spell out. >> Yeah, exactly. Right. >> Yeah. So, I I asked two consultants for a cost assessment on the engineering,
you know, don't dig into it too hard. One of them came back 200,000 just for the design and one 150 and both have done similar work for dogs that's ready to go.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Now we're at the FY28. How much do you want to dig into the whole years here? >> That's a good question. Um, you got a lot of slats. >> I got a lot of slats. >> Yeah, I I think
>> I think probably not. Um, I think what we may do is give this to the committee to take a look at. We can either submit questions directly to you
>> um or even better yet submit them to me and I can I can consolidate them and read them out. >> Yeah. Because I think there's a general cadence >> there is >> there's a So if Yeah. So why don't you just identify what that general cadences
>> right? So like this one is uh well construction of Goodwood Street over Easter broke. So I'm using chapter 90 money to fund the design. Now I need money for the construction. So that's how it goes. Yeah. I I asked for money
for design and then money for construction and then the other stuff is the regular schedule replacement of vehicles. >> So that's just going on too. Is there is there any particular item or
items though that you want to call to our attention that you think we should look at or >> on the out years? >> Yeah. >> Um I don't think so. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we give this a read >> which apologies. I hadn't thought of
this in advance. So, um, but, >> uh, and then, you know, particularly since we have two members out tonight, um, we can consolidate some questions and then we can feed them back to you and read it out in a future meeting. Um, but I,
>> Bill, I got to tell you, this is this is the best presentation I've seen >> in this is my fourth year, I think, of doing this. So, I mean, congrats. This is exceptional. The bad the bad news is we're going to have you lead seminars and teaching.
>> Yes. Bad news is you just set the bar. >> So this is this kind of style that he has put it in for you is what is generally the standard. >> This is what we want. >> Yeah. This is the standard. >> Yeah. Yep. No, I it
>> raising the bar. >> Extremely well done. you you know I always give honest feedback so I don't pull any questions this is uh >> in either direction. No, no, he knows. You ever been here? He knows.
>> So, yeah, this is great. Thank you very much. >> Yeah, >> that's not that I came up with this. >> No, we've been doing it for years, but together >> bringing it together in this in this mechanism of a presentation. Frankly, there's a lot more information on the
slides both from >> the pictures as well as the content and the organization of it. I think um >> is is very well done and it it I I agree like I think this is something that all the departments should take a look at and for next year we should you know I
know we didn't have time to do it right this year but >> for next year when when uh Rob or Caesar a chair uh >> it'll be Caesar >> you can uh sad if I'm even here.
>> These threats from everybody today. Where's everyone going? >> All right. >> One thing that I do want to um just add to the discussion for just to flag for future when you brought up the special purpose stabilization fund. I looked up
what the fund balance was at um at annual town meeting. So the only it's not a current balance but we haven't added to it other than investment interest right so it was 2 million553,972 so 2.5 million I think when you have the
discussion around kind of where is that break point are we talking half million dollar projects or we or vehicles or only talking million plus dollar vehicles we were able to arrive at a balance of 2.5 million because there have been a
period of good years >> and I don't foresee being able to make um deposits into the special purpose stabilization fund for a little bit. So I just want you to be cognizant of
>> should we as part of our capital planning be taking off chunks of some of these bigger projects and appropriating a sum in this year that goes into the stabilization fund. >> I don't think with the need we're going
to have the ability to that's that's where that's the we have more funding need than funding availability. Yeah. I um the good news is is that >> we did it the way we did it.
>> Absolutely. >> I've been very critical of your predecessor. >> This is one thing she did very well. Very well. And and she knows that. I think that so >> and this is you know I >> and we're very fortunate to be in that situation
>> that we are sometimes decisions that are made in a community have long impacts. Right. So the we are benefiting from the decisions made during those good years for sure. >> And >> to the select board's credit,
>> we didn't drain that fund to buy four dump trucks, >> right? >> Correct. >> Like we used some found money in the way of of ARPA money >> to I mean we spent >> a million dollars something like that for two of them.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, right? Um >> to not do that. So, you know, the good news is is that I think we can cover a little bit of ground. >> Correct. >> Now, I think what >> what we need to be thoughtful about this
year >> is we're still going to do our job like we do our job, which is we're going to present to you a prioritization list. Where you land from a from a plan, from a proposal perspective,
>> is not just the priorities. It can't be just reflective of the priorities that we give you. It also has to be reflective of the fiscal situation that you're grappling with, right? which is, you know, free cash, all the other
things and money like special purpose stabilization funds. It says, okay, you know, we're going to we're going to fund a fire department project and maybe we'll go half of that from a stabilization fund
and the other half from normal, you know, raise and appropriate and pre-cash funding sources or something like that, right? And I I'm probably in the distinct minority here, but I also for large capital items.
I'm not allergic to a capital outlay exclusion. >> Nor am I. >> I think I'm in a distinct minority. >> Nor am I. No, I Rob, I I tend to agree with you. I think that the other things that we're going to have to contend with
is first of all the mood of the voter, >> right? that. But that's true. >> But in addition to that, like you know, I think this track and field program is going down regular borrowing, right? It's going to be a big bite. And the
service of that debt is going to be no joke, right? When you're talking about a couple million dollars on a whatever we borrow that for, but it shouldn't be more than 10 years, frankly, because the life of the turf is probably 10 years. you're you're talking $200 to $250,000 a
year in debt service, right? That you know, so >> we have to be thought the town manager and the finance committee needs to be thoughtful of the whole the whole bomb, >> right? I think now where we have a new opportunity this
year that was not looked upon as kindly in previous years is I think that the capital planning committee can bring some good advice and levity to these discussions >> when it comes to the financing right because of the organizations that we
represent >> and the experience that we have as members of this committee >> I think that you know we can help right? We can't direct, but we can help. Not only in terms of advising you, but also >> advising >> as I was put in the situation to tell
me, you're just kind of like, okay, this is kind of how we look at this situation, right? Relative to all the other things. And I think we can we can be helpful. and and to to all of you, you know, I think that I've heard some in individual frustrations that have
been expressed to me that you feel like you at times have sat in these rooms and for what purpose as you go through this. >> Hearing the discussions, the questions that you bring up, the institutional knowledge that you you bring your advice
in this is not a waste of time >> to me or to town meeting. It's critical. >> I appreciate that. And I I I do think it's a little bit different now than it was in previous years. Um but I I absolutely appreciate that and I
I believe you and >> All right. Um >> thank you, Bill. >> Yeah. Thanks, Bill. Well done. Anything that >> Yeah, the that um zero emissions rule. >> Oh boy. >> Please talk about this. >> Here we go again.
>> Yeah. So what they have I'm just looking at it supposed to be in 25 7% zero emission vehicles for the big trucks. Um they don't exist on the market, right?
>> So in other words, you can't buy a truck now because they can't sell 7% because they don't exist. Um, so there's an exception for towns only through 26, only through next year.
So, and it's for trucks 8,500 pounds and up. And that's every truck in our fleet except for one, the one I drive. >> I have heard certain senators who are being loud about this issue. >> Yeah. >> But they're not in the majority party.
>> Well, Massachusetts. I mean, so couple of thoughts here. One is we're not alone. >> Sure. >> In this problem. >> Yeah. >> And we're also not alone in >> our fiscal condition in that we can't go
out and frontload all this to be compliant next year >> and then, you know, we don't have to worry about it because we're good to go in 27, 28, whatever the out years are. >> That's just not feasible, right? So there's 400 some odd cities and towns in
Massachusetts that are all sort of under this gun. >> And you know, I think it was the governor that ultimately said, "Okay, move it out a year or two >> and that's going to happen again, right?"
Like this is like a it's like a government shutdown, right? Sooner or later the dam's going to break and we're going to fix it, right? can compare if we can compare the deadline to the extension of the remote access. It was always at like the the final hours that
the legislature would take that vote. So >> I guess that's my attitude. >> We probably won't have a lot of lead time on this. >> We need to >> weeks before there'll be a vote. >> We need to be aware of it. >> We absolutely need to be aware of it. But I don't think there's anything that we can do in terms of prioritization >> that should be driven by that. Right.
Like there's just It's so likely that it's not going to have teeth until it's feasible to react to it with vehicles that are on the market, right? Like it's so it's just goofy. >> Where vehicles are where we are
definitely starting to see them though are in the not the big vehicles but the smaller vehicles. you know where this was something that was being or or for the equipment a lot of the landscaping equipment the tech is st I don't want to
buy it yet but the tech is starting to come around there so there was something that was being discussed two years ago at this last year's MMA they had a whole EV green alley where they were really highlighting what was there so it's that
that kind of smaller engine stuff is becoming more meal. >> Yeah. I mean, at some point at some point you're going to have a capital request for charging facilities. >> Like I mean, that's just a matter of time, right? But >> yeah, >> we got to have something that we can >> I hope somebody will pay for one and
just install it. >> But we, you know, it has to be attached to equipment that we can reasonably afford. Makes sense, right? I would prefer not to have a police car that is dependent upon a charge in an ice storm.
Right? Like those kinds of things are are, >> you know, the kind of thing that I think about, >> right? >> So although we had a difficult time getting fuel during this talk, too, but you know, whole other story. >> Okay, good. All right, let me pull up my
agenda. Um thank you. >> Okay. Um so I have the next item discussion on draft fiscal policies. Um we only have three members but I think to the extent we can we should at
least get that call roll. We won't discuss it necessarily, but I'll put copies for everybody of what I did. >> And I just need to explain it a little because it's kind of cryptic shorthand in some places. But my my only exercise
in going through this was to try to annotate where things came from. M. >> So my and unfortunately I don't have a color printer cuz all of my highlights are red. >> So you'll send soft copies of this.
>> It's just I I can email it. Yeah, cuz it's red. >> Yeah. >> And it's easier to see. It's it's just it's gray here. But >> and what it is is where something came from the bylaw. I put the bylaw in where
something came from a a policy. I put that in. >> Uh and in some cases uh there were for some reason there were substantive inconsistencies
in in the document from what was actually in the source. Just for example, looking at the multi-year capital improvement plan, which is item D on the the third page, uh I I my additions there and
subtractions are to make the language conform to what is actually in the town charter, >> which was different than was in this document. >> Okay. So there wasn't a lot but those
and I also where applicable but there was only one I think for the external references they just had a a chapter and section number. I tried to I looked that up and
tried to give you some guidance as to what exactly that statute was. Um, and there's no magic to this. It was just I was getting annoyed because I I didn't know where any of it was coming. >> And you were trying to get the one to
one. Yeah. >> Between the two. >> Okay. So, if you could Rob share a soft copy. >> Yeah. >> Um, and we can get that uh posted with the minutes and also to the town manager for review and then maybe we can bring back some thoughts on some of it. As I
just rifled through it, one thing popped out in my head like, "Oh, we got to talk about that." So, but >> I only did it I only did it for our capital planning section. >> No, no, no. That's all we want. >> I think I think somebody has to do it for the whole document. >> Yes. Y >> I wasn't going to do that unless
somebody wants to pay me by the hour. >> Yep. >> At your at your volunteer rate or your actual has finance committee started uh getting through this yet? So, this is something that we were going to do with the new finance director and have a read through
and then give them a red line. So, >> okay. Okay, great. >> That's probably >> uh we do not have minutes to review or approve tonight. Is there any public comment? >> No public comments. >> Hearing none. Is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved.
>> Second. All those in favor? I >> We are adjourned. >> Thank you everybody. Have a good night. Good night, Jean.