##VIDEO ID:d3ak0Vyy6Bk## uh good evening it is uh Wednesday October 23rd at 6:30 p.m. is uh we are at the main floor meeting room in the Ritter building uh I am Peter beardmore chair of the capital planning committee and we are calling this meeting to order in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be able to be found on the lunberg access YouTube channel after the meeting uh it can also be you can also participate remotely using the zoom link which was provided on the posted agenda um in the event that there is a problem with the remote meeting this meeting will proceed will proceed in person as scheduled the agenda lists all topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law is there any public comment today oh I have somebody that I need to admit all right uh to whomever I just admitted uh I have opened the meeting to public comment and I apologize I didn't see you in the waiting room so you have a if you have a comment please feel free to join in if not we will move ahead hearing none okay um chair's report um the only thing that I have to update is I did receive uh earlier today an update from the superintendent with new numbers uh for the two items that she indicated on Monday need to be revised I have not forwarded those to you via email but I will do so at my earliest convenience I also received today um an email from Cara mccardy uh who I don't know but she identified her your as the administrator for the it function um and a website and um forwarded a um a deck that um is apparently the the deck that we are going to receive at some point for it um it was not in conformance with the the general principles that we had all discussed um and indicated some things that had not been updated for probably a year so I requested that um number one we still need to schedule a date uh and number two I'd like to have a conversation with whomever is presenting in advance so that we can do our darness to get that thing um as close as possible to how the other items are being presented uh so more to follow on that I also indicated that our next meeting um on November 4th is our only scheduled meeting to to hear um uh proposals uh and some requests so ideally that will come in that evening but that will also make for a fairly long meeting because we are going to have um DPW and fire already scheduled for the the night of November 4th so just to give everybody a heads up that that may be a a long night um other than that I have nothing else to report at this time um I will move review and approved minutes uh down in the agenda so that we can move ahead with the facilities uh present ation from Mr Ruth U Mr Ruth's presentation was forwarded last week in PDF form he has just sent me a PowerPoint and I will be uh projecting that in the zoom um throughout the course of of the discussion tonight um I think that's it all right all right let me move the camera and we'll get started let me get my zoom set up bear with me please all right well we're going to go screen share and hope for the best can you see yep okay good we have confirmation that we have a slide up here and uh take it away Mr Ruth all right thank you very much um the first slide is really just a cover sheet so we can skip past that one um this next slide here is just giving everyone a quick overview of the facilities that we manage um I've broken this down into two slides between Town facilities and the parks um I'm happy to run through them but I think most people arew that we have 11 buildings that fall under my side of the facilities um you have Town Hall the Ritter Memorial Library uh Department of Public Works our Public Safety complex um we have the adult Activity Center Public Library uh the Boys and Girls Club the upper and lower common falls under facilities um the Brooks house U TC pasos building the old Primary School which is now just a empty field where they play t-ball um we also help out with the Hollis Road conservation property and the old gas station at 925 massav onto our next slide we just have our Parks U which is Marshall Park and pond um we have Memorial Park or Veterans Park um the town beach and the beach house and then we have MCN Park Wallace Park and Fitzgerald field jump on to the next one um so these next couple slides are just a a brief overview of all of the projects um I have almost a 100 on my list at the moment for pushing out for the various buildings of through all these years so I don't think we uh need to go through all of those right now um the next slide here is just the 2026 slides and I apologize but I realized today that I had two formatting issues on this um one it's out of order and the other one is the teen center flooring replacement was supposed to say 25,000 not 35 okay can you just send an updated version of that at some point in the future thank you I we'll get it up to you hopefully this week so our next two slides here or three I think 6 seven and eight so that just to be clear the the parking lot you've got spread over two years because it's a design and then implementation yes okay um so those next couple slides um unless anyone feels a need to run through them or just kind of the the list of capital projects that I've got for future stuff if anybody want to just take the moment or maybe we can go so your intent is to go deep on 26 and then two questions on the out years yeah I mean the out Years A lot of it is ballpark estimates and not knowing what prices they're going to do but it's you know we know we need a roof after 20 years and windows after 20 so I just like to keep all the projects listed so we can we don't lose track of anything okay so I do have like general questions in this series and I'll go to one of my favorite buildings the Brooks house which um in like 2030 you have a bunch of projects in there but that was I don't think we ever intend to do any of those right no those were on the list from before and we just kind of pushed them out you know at the moment apdc has an article to try to sell the Brooks house um and the facilities department is not opposed to that in any way shape or form just because there's not a whole lot of feasible use for us over there so I think part of the value of getting a good five and or 10e plan really comes down to good projections of things and if there's items on here which we never intend to do in my opinion we should just get rid of them um um or put them into some other bucket that is like you know I don't want to lose them but we never intend to do that I'm happy to do that easy enough to edit my spreadsheets well that's just my opinion I don't I mean what is the rest of the yeah I mean I think it's a good so so part of the challenge here Mr Ruth is that we are charged with provi putting forth a five-year Capital plan that this board has not traditionally done which is why we're trying to do this a little earlier so we can give ourselves some head space to do that at some point um in the past the practice has been that the town manager rolls up all of the requests as part of the fiscal forecast and then projects a funding amount and then there's a gap and then it just kind of rolls from year to year um we're we're trying to add a little bit more rigor and projection to the projections so to speak um and so you know I I think is on to something I think that there's probably a like a very unlikely category right where we can kind of put those things into a bucket and then say and then if you really want to you know if you really want to make yourself miserable we can we can look at the unlikely numbers in in terms of where the gaps are um but you know short of that building being torn down or sold there obviously it's deferred maintenance and we have have to track that somewhere right well I mean we should yeah we have to track it somewhere I agree okay yes so we just have to figure out how to do that yeah yeah or unal maybe it just has to go and unallocated or something I think one of the things I'd like to be able to do with this list is also maybe add especially in your area a few well schools maybe as well um like few attributes to this to say like which building it is um same thing with schools and then also get a better understanding of operational costs like I'm putting my finance hat on right so what are these buildings costing us so someone can say Hey you know brel over the next 10 years we're going to spend a million dollars to keep this pretty building around or whatever it is right is this what we really want to do y and my actual spreadsheet that this came from has all those columns it just you know it's 100 lines long and 18 wide so I shrink it down but effectively I think that's what Chris is asking for is the spread right so that we can get to that data and really kind of break break RS you know um I I think TC pasio is almost an identical scenario right like there there's millions of dollars here on TC paos that I I can't imagine spending a fraction of that yeah but then you know even here not your building but maybe your building in the future if we go down a path is the um Turkey Hill when I look at all the things that I saw on that one it really asks you like is it worth keeping that building around right I mean yeah um so and I think that those are the decisions as a town we once and for all need to to tle and make which is I think why we're putting a little more emphasis on this but so so the the one caveat that I would put on Turkey Hill is that it is the subject of a study right now and I mean they're reviewing bids like literally today on that and balancing the you know build to make it stand for 100 years versus reprogram it to an elementary school and like those kinds of issues are all you know in play right now as part of this bids process um but we will absolutely that out cuz I think a plan is more than just numbers and a spreadsheet actually here's Vision here's what I'm looking to do I'm actually glad you said that because one of my biggest challenges right now is I don't know what the plan is for the interior of this building or town hall you know or TCP and the building design committee is is getting back in gear and and working on that but it's it's quite difficult to plan you know I had I inherited a whole bunch of projects and some of them were new carpets in here and new paint and you know last year it was well we're going to renovate it but without knowing a timeline if it's if it's 10 years out we have to replace the carpets they're not going to last so you know part of it is is understanding that plan you know last year we got some money for uh section of roof at TCP and all the details you know the plan at the time was the school was going to stay now there's a halfway decent possibility the school is going to leave TCP so it's hard for me to justify spending that 300,000 on a section of roof that nobody's under anymore right you know I think we could repurpose it but without having a good plan it's very difficult y I completely agree but I can send you the spreadsheet and the only one from TCP that we can't avoid is the asbest the abatement yeah sooner or later even if you take the building down you no matter what we own it so and I think as a director I mean part of what I would be looking for you to do is help lead us through a discussion on what the vision of these should be in your recommendation and then through our various boards we can start to U maybe try to translate that into ual plans and funding and momentum I could give you a quick summary of what I would love to see I don't know if we need to do it tonight but I just I think the first step is calling out things that we're just never going to do yeah that would be my opinion I got I can separate it as well and for what it's worth Chris it might be worth having a conversation um with the superintendent specific to the schools in TCP because that has been a topic of school committee discussion the last couple of meetings we've had quite a few and I actually had a quick meeting with Kyra today about it as well and so we are trying to move forward and just a heads up I actually asked her to reach out to you on the cost of um playgrounds knowing that you now are understanding the cost of playgrounds on other projects yes they were uh absur so thank you so if you okay so do you want to go to the 26 Capital project yes yep uh we can even skip right over that cover sheet because it's just a cover sheet um so on my agenda here I have the the projects that I would like to go over for 26 um they're not necessarily in order of priority the I would say the top top seven or so I think are a significantly higher priority and the the parks department may be quite upset with me for saying that but I we need to keep the buildings functioning before adding additional par work where you've got the reference number as an XXXX these are items that you could not get into clear go yeah okay by the way I those numbers I looked at are reviewed some old older notes clear up never generated those those were all manually driven every one of those numers yes the what they were assigned a number manually cleargov did not give these new projects when the superintendent says I couldn't get clear go to give me one that's it doesn't give you one so that was previously the town manager would go in right and and as they came in just put them with the fiscal year and then the number and sequences they came in okay well maybe that's which leads me to the question has has our itm been asked invited to the our meetings our interim Town manager sorry yes okay and obviously well I mean he's been copied on all of the right agenda notices and Etc okay okay so just a quick list them off here uh the first one I have is the public safety second floor building design um which is a carryover from last year and I found myself another typo and I apologize for that um just adjust cost for inflation and last year I did not have the construction estimator included the library HVAC uh upgrades design uh Senior Center parking lot design um Town Hall HVAC upgrades uh Town Hall window replacement teen center flooring replacement Senior Center flooring replacement uh MCN Park survey and design that's for expanding the park and some more access there and then Marshall Pond weed treatment is uh teen center the Boys and Girls Club yes okay great no worries the um maybe you'll get to this but I'll just ask it in advance anyway um for the three items at the top that are design related you had projected a cost for the parking but not for the HVAC or build out at the second floor is that just because we have no idea um in out years or so for the HVAC upgrades I have a dartboard type guess um the the Senior Center Parking one was a carryover number that somebody my predecessor in there um and as well the public safety I'm not I'm guessing maybe 300 but I don't I don't have you have it in the in the slide I believe I have it yeah slide six okay it wasn't on the it wasn't slide six I apologize I had Yeah final formatting I was rushing to get this out we have quite a few projects going right now as I'm sure you guys are it's on slide six but not five slide five oh I see okay all right so we need to connect just connect the dots on this okay and the actual slides I've have got the information off I'll update this and fix all the formatting for you I just I wanted to make sure you guys had time to look at it before the meeting all right maybe we would want to have like a follow on call at some point just so that sure I at a minimum as I'm trying to figure out how to get this all into a spreadsheet that we can all work with understand placeholder numbers and what they're attached to and that kind of thing yeah my spreadsheet I have notes next to each one of where I am and all right so next slide is the um public safety building um the design work for they have two rooms on the second floor of the police side that one room is kind of sitting empty right now the other room is used for some record storage but not as much as they need um this one in talking with the the former Chief and our new interim Chief is is one of their priorities because they are low on Space um it would be the structural engineering required for for the pile storage and then the all the architectural hbac and um all that design work um we've actually already acquired a couple cubicles for them to use up there the uh a connection with the Red Cross and Worcester was closing a building and donating all their Furniture so we went out and took apart some cubicles to bring over there just an effort to save some money on the construction side um that's it's a fairly straightforward one you know at the moment they have one empty office in the building and that's because the chief just retired right so the chief the the now acting Chief or interim Chief presented this under his as well so so we have to make sure this is not Double Di right it's not asked I don't think he talked about it but sit we see okay thank you anyone have any any questions that on this one my only suggestion would be um for those of you who have not had the opportunity you might want to reach out to the interim Chief and ask to take a look because this is somewhat it's one thing to look at it here it's another thing to actually be there and kind of look around and understand the space and the opportunity that it presents as well as how the records are currently being stored which is um not great and it's I'm not sure if you guys orware but paper storage is incredibly heavy you know it's every time I'm in the basement of town hall I worry about being under the accounting side so one of the um so I I did have another thought on this um and um I don't recall if it was in either narrative um around digital records versus paper records and and what our regulatory obligations are around paper records this has come up every year but we have new members coming coming and going um you know you've got companies like Iron Mountain that that's what they do you know and and they do it quite economically in my opinion um but if that's not an option it's not an option but you know as part of this ask for y a a cost analysis I think that you know Alternatives do need to be considered age with you as do I cuz I don't know if you've been in any of the backs side of TCP but there's a whole bunch of uh those black and yellow bins filled with paper files that you know certain things the state requires but I can check with the inter term Chief and make sure we look into that when we cleaned out the um the town Beach Building I was noticing um swim records from my kids daily and Rob knows how old my kids are so I think we're doing a lot of storage that may not be necessary I would agree and even when we tore down the primary school the old uh I guess Auditorium gym space was full and we had the records cleaned and and packed up but they they were not organized at all and I think there's a pretty Monumental task for the town as a whole with digital records and getting rid of some of the paper before my time luckily they cleaned out the attic up here so most of those files have moved but it's there's quite a bit yeah I mean I was Finding liquor licenses from the 30s in the old primary school and it adds up you know I mean we're literally looking at spending six figures to build a space to put paper that we might not need you know hey you get a dumpster deliver to your house storage is one thing but can we digitize going forward so at least 30 years from now it's not a problem I'm I'm sure we could I think that's a I'm not sure whose capital plan that on I think it's very interesting that this committee is asking the facilities director about what the compliance and regulatory requirements of all different departments are when can you find all that Chris while you're doing on your other projects can you check about the fire and and the state and you know police records requirements yeah but it impacts him tremendously so that's why I it is I can tell you that the cost of digitizing can be even going forward in some instances can be dramatically higher than we expect because some departments and I'm most familiar with land use um have uh document sizes that are not accessible to any standard scan um I know when Adam Bernie was here he really wanted us to look at digitizing a lot of our a lot of the old records so we wouldn't have to store them as well as going forward but to digitize with the requisite signatures and everything like for here for example um you were going to need something like a a 30 or $50,000 scanner to cons to even have that as an option because of the odd format sizes and everything not to mention the hour spent yes it's a little off topic but all of these files right now are stored in the building that we're talking about potentially tearing down part of or or renovating so you know we have three classrooms over there that are stacked with files yeah we have anything else on the public next one we have here is the Senior Center um additional parking um this has changed from its initial creation a little bit because of the um outdoor 88 patio that was installed out back uh the original plan for parking was to move parking out back um the current thought at the moment is to shift Kids Kingdom down you know call it 100 feet or so to add in add in parking that's the senior center um their main issue is in their lot they have nine parking spots and between the boys and girls club and the senior center they share that lot and on the rest of the parkings on the street so just this week they had an event that filled the teen center lot the shared lot their lot the library and the road and the seniors are there's no nice way to say it but they're probably one of the biggest groups that has mobility issues in town and especially as we come into the winter months it's it becomes a challenge you know DPW has to push snowbanks back further and it's I think they certainly need it I know they'll probably have to be you know start with a conceptual design and get everyone's input on it just uh you know some of the building design committee I know there was talks of parking for future use of TCP so I think there's quite a few stakeholders involved but I think it's something we definitely need to move on to so one um and by the way I completely agree with everything you just said however um an issue that has come up very recently in a school committee meeting and um is still not resolved in my mind is the control of that space um I brought it up last year when this came forward because the the plot plan that you provided showed a a dividing line that literally ran through the Kids Kingdom property at the time and I inquired as to who has responsibility for that space by the way the schools currently maintain that field of the playground um and the town manager sent me an email that U referred to a town meeting decision that put TC pasos under the responsibility of the the town um however to my knowledge the property has never been transferred and I don't know where TC Pao ends and the land around the beginning the building begins yeah um and once again back to the future use and strategy kind of conversations if we ever land in elementary school where a TC pasos currently sits that space is going to be space right so um I think that that remains an unresolved question in my mind it does anyway I think it's resolved in other people's minds but but not in my own um but but that's something that I I'm I'm still a little bit hung up on now that being said I think we have to solve this problem and it may be that Kids Kingdom doesn't belong in that lot anymore and I know that that's blasphemy around here but there may be a better alternative so I do know some of the folks from the um the council and aging board have reached out to the family and they they would be okay with shifting it and it's it's only a verbal thing and my understanding is the Schoolboard vote that transferred TCP back for whatever reason retained control of Kids Kingdom so technically the TCP is mine but for whatever reason the the playground remains with the school and I can't speak to the whatever logic was going on back then but yeah the town meeting article and I can send you the the email that I got from Heather basically stipulates it's the building transferred to the town so um anyway it's it's not resolved in my my mind anyway so the the 32,000 includes pretty much everything on the the civil engineering side you know we've got test pits permitting conceptual plans a new survey construction estimator it's it's all built into that price so that will at least get us to a point where we have a true construction estimate and you know obviously now it's going to be a little more expensive because we're relocating the playground I think that's my bigger you have 150 on the next phase of this I think again that was a carryover from previous I don't at this point it's a shot in the dark and I don't have any without a plan I don't have an estimate yeah I think it's pretty I think it's pretty low in my I would I would tend to agree that it's probably low but without knowing how many parking spaces we're going to add you know it's potentially we could do a thin strip of just one r of parking you know I think I think step one would be getting to a conceptual plan and and getting it in front of the uh the stakeholders to say this is what we think and kind of go from there with it I feel like we do a lot of projects for planning and then don't follow through on them um and part of it is because we have an estimate of the cost of something that's pretty low compared to what it truly ends up being and I think back to the cost of the playground what kind of surface are you going to put down are you going to put down an inclusive surface you going to again those are there a whole bunch of questions that are far beyond just just myself making decisions and I to to even give you a reasonable number I'd have to at least start with a conceptual plan to get it to an estimator I mean there's certainly the possibility to do just a conceptual plan to start and then and then come back with it um you know there has been talk of of doing that but without any guarantee of having additional money in my budget for next year it's it's tough to go ahead and say yeah sure let's take 10 grand out of my budget for this one because I may need it for another building if you know I I would love to see you guys approve all of mine but I know there's a lot more than just me that needs the money so I still think that this kind of plan could be print out on paper I guess um you know the map of this area just with markers draw out where we think things are going we can size them up and then get an estimate of you know how much is the surface how much is the construction running and how much is Paving per square foot or whatever there was a there was a proforma plan that was floated a couple of years ago that basically ran you know half of where Kids Kingdom currently sits and then Kids Kingdom was going to shift down and we had a number of parking like we could probably take just that yeah but that's not doable anymore with Ada patio and everything in the back probably not but at least in terms of just the amount of space and I love to know I'd love to know from Council on Aging and and the altivity center how many spots first of all are they looking for right what do they need right cuz I want I don't want to do what we can with the land we have if it doesn't make sense that's one of the things that happened last time like we're going to do all this work and then we were going to get nine spots or something and I'm like why am I going to spend all that money like how many do you need and let's look for a way to get that yeah there certainly should be some estimate of dollars per slot right well the first thing is just conceptually how many spots do they need well I think the problem is is that it's more than we can fit you know what I mean like it's i' like to know what the number is before it's a fair point it's just you know the natural progression of the argument is more than we have space for I do think that it sells a lot of parking in that whole area too so it's it's a good question and I I do know that the you know the town from my understanding doesn't want a whole parking giant parking lot in the center of town either we want to keep as much green space as we can you still got to have I mean yeah we've gone the absolute opposite direction though we don't have any parking for any place generally mhm the largest parking spot is private parking also is a is a and I don't know if this has even been considered or discussed but you know I frequently find myself running around if I go to the library I get on Memorial Drive just to see what's going on and very frequently it's people are parked on the street and there's you know parking Here There and Everywhere around around the eagle house but that what I call the mezzanine lot which is is you know there's basically two lots between that and the the Mossman building neither of those lots are ever are typically full on on an average Tuesday morning or something right so you know could we potentially move Kids Kingdom to one of those spaces and shift down the parking you know into that space so that we we have parking spaces that are closer proximity to the building and we're not that's actually a fantastic idea I hadn't thought about because one of the other issues that is kind of looming out there is the ramp from that lot down to the senior center is not even remotely close to Ada yeah right you know if we were to replace that you know if we were trying to put that in today we'd be left out of the room just because of slopes and so anyway I mean just thought so I mean that would that would eliminate a future $100,000 problem with replacing that ramp potentially yeah limit the scene from coming down that hill and I don't know if there's enough space up there for a playground or whatever but you know just ideas it you're talking about the M yeah I call the mezan no I know what you mean no that that puts the playground right near Boys and Girls Club which puts differently aged but still youth activities even more adjacent put damn I like that no idea if it's feasible but yeah nor do I no idea I don't think it's any any less feasible unless the you know the boys and girls club would be upset about losing the additional parking there but Mo most of the users of the Boys and Girls Club aren't driving it so Legally Legally I I would like I think the next step on this though is to ask um the I guess the counil on aing while the Center to just print out that paper and see what they would want and get the questions of like how many spots do they need aren't aren't there general principles on spots that are required for square foot of a building or something like that yeah yeah so we could we could figure out the number that they're supposed to have only we had such planning and zoning bylaws yeah see we that would be a great thing we we do have parking requirements I I don't know that anything that anything we're talking about vaguely Falls within them because they're the more standard things on the Ed table what's that if you're building a new building there are the for they apply if you're building a new building if there is a change of use in a building people don't like that very much um they apply but again we I don't think we have anything that's like I I don't know what on the usth table off the top of my head would be the senior center or the boys and girls club because they're a a public service community group and I just don't I that I can't think of anything that would apply I would assume the regulars would know at Peak time this is about how many cars we no I think you're right okay anything else on this one we got to figure this one out all right no more questions on that one we'll jump to the next slide here so the next one is for Town Hall hvc upgrade um So currently Town Hall has four furnace air handler units the two in the basement that serve the first floor will replace I didn't write it down but I want to say it was about five or six years ago um the two up in the attic are best guesstimate because we don't have best records about 20 to 24 years old and they are at the end of their life um the other part of this would be replacing the four air conditioner condensers outside including the line sets and the coils at coolum um and part of the part of the fun with that one is those units are still running R22 refrigerant which has to be reclaimed and I wish we could still use it because I think it works better but so this project has the cost for I have my construction estimate as well as you know design and specifications I'd need a engineer just to make sure we're putting the most efficient stuff in there um this one would also most certainly be eligible for some sort of Green community grants um to help fund some of it but if we're looking well I don't know when the next round of Grants is they just finished the round right now so and some of them you know sometimes it's a reimbursement Grant sometimes it's matching which is one of the challenges with those grants because if it's a matching one that expires but we haven't got through Capital yet you're kind of a catch 22 on it have you touched base with the green Community uh I touched base with them quite a bit but not about I mean about not specifically this one though um just one unrelated to Green communities question there's part of these multiple scenarios and plans that the municipal building committee came up with with respect to you know an Annex here Rehab on this building doing work on town hall for repurposing it was any of this captured in those plans for example if we were to do some sort of excludable debt specifically for a large scale municipal building project would this be captured in that in that program so my thought for Town Hall is you know kind of their conceptual plans would still have a similar layout would still have the two units in the basement two units in the Attic you know we may have to rework duck work for the new ones but I think the units would still be able to serve the space just fine I I I agree that wasn't really the nature of my question the nature of my question was as they have been looking at the the total cost of these potential scenarios and how we're going to fund them is HVAC included in that planning or not I I'm not sure if they've gotten to that level with it um I would hope so you know and that would be money that would come off of of their plan if we have new units in there that don't need to be replaced you know there my pressor had some HVAC upgrades to this building on there that it's kind of on that list of push himot because the boilers are fairly new the mini splits are keeping up in here for the time being and it's this building my understanding is would be kind of a total gut so I think for this building it wouldn't be worthwhile where all of theit units are in a space that are getting gutted Town Hall there won't ever be anything in that basement or that attic as usable space for the public no I understand y so maybe maybe not in terms of fitting in that funing envelope you know and this this one again carries the design and specifications construction estimator and all of these numbers have a 10% contingency attached to them any questions on this one the next one here is Library HVAC upgrades the design work for it um I know everyone likes to think of the library as a newer building but we're at 20 years which is creeping up on the end of the lifespan for some of these units um the we've had quite a few issues with the library in the past couple years to the tune of you know 10,000 plus a year into right now one of the units um it's a couple issues of one the controls are some of them are still communicating some aren't the parts no longer exist to replace them and in someone's Infinite Wisdom when they put the building in they did one of my biggest pet peeves and they use Johnson Controls which are proprietary so it means you're locked into very few vendors to work work on them and only one supply of the parts so this is kind of a twofold one one is uh planed to upgrade the controls and the other one is a plan to replace the rooftop units as of right now we wouldn't change any duck work but the controls would be likely running new wiring to all of the units because the old Johnson Controls ran more of a thermostat wire everything new runs you know cat 6 network cable so I I and forgive me I'm not a building guy so no worries why does this require $32,000 of engineering work and design work in my mind you know like big honk and HVAC on the roof replace it with another big honk and HVAC on the room put a control panel on it and wire it up like I I I wish it was that simple um so for the Rooftop design the initial estimate I got for that was about 13,000 and that also includes structural evaluations to make sure the roof can handle the weight of the new units um making sure the new units can actually function correctly you know some of in my opinion any building built in that 2000's era the heating systems were a disaster they were they were pushing The Cutting Edge of the technology that wasn't quite there yet mhm and it's the exact same issue we're having at the public safety building and that one has a a different system that hopefully we've got just about figured out but you know even that system from day one was design wrong I met with a couple of my contractors and their designers this week and they kept questioning me about why pipe sizes were the way they were and why things were done and it's you know I wasn't here 20 years ago when it was put in but you know some of our some of our issues in that building are issues that have been there for 20 years and just never correctly addressed are the issues that we're experiencing in that building affecting services like is it too cold or too hot ever in the library room we haven't been able to keep a consistent temperature in the children's side in the last year and a half or so the only saving grace is in the winter the children's side has radiant heating so if something happens to that unit we can still get heat into the space and it's truth be told some of it is lack of Maintenance over the years you know it's people looked at it as oh it's a new building it doesn't need anything and it couldn't be further from the truth the the fewest headaches I have is this building it's just built like a tank and the old systems just operate well and The Kinks are worked out but you know people always assume new buildings work well and it's almost never the case okay we've certainly experienced that in the middle high school that things been up HVAC debacle since day one so same error seems like true of every building we've built which leads me to that's another R part of it is finding the right contractor and we found a new contractor that you know you get into you have a controls guy that can look at whether the equip is talking to each other but once something doesn't respond all they can tell you is yes the controllers working you're not and then you have to bring in another contract and everyone points their fingers the contractor we've been working with does it in house you know a new control system they have someone that comes in help them but they have a specialist in house that can look at the system and and say you know there's a controller burnt out on one of the library units right now that our first contractor said oh you know $110,000 you have to replace this unit turns out that little controller all it does is tell us when the filters are dirty well it's kind of irrelevant because we change them on regular basis anyway so for units that are going to be replaced in the future I can't justify spending $10,000 for to send a message from the roof to the it room to say hey our filters are dirty we know we replace them on a regular basis anyway so it's a whole host of challenges mix right thank you good answer so the way you have this time phased is replace the hbac in 27 and replace the roof in 29 does that make sense if you're replacing units on the roof to replace the roof the after typically when you replace the roof the the units on the roof you'll hopefully find a unit that fits on the old curb if not they make curb adapters So in theory you can do it without actually touching the roof but it's an excellent question because you don't want to put a roof on that immed immediately have to patch it right there's also the potential um I guess I'm just saying maybe you do them at the same time and then it's I think we're early on the roof and there's there's a potential that I could break this out and do the controls work first and Limp the units along for five more years and be able to push them back at the moment I unfortunately don't have that as a guarantee that we can do it but it's it's potential right I'm just looking at the plan that's laid out it says 27 for the HVAC and 29 for the the library roof would would this $32,000 give you some more insight in terms of how if you might be able to phase it oh yeah yeah it would this would be able to give me a workable design get the you know get estimates for each project and then I could break out those projects at that point and and have a real cost for you of you know the controls are going to be 50 or 100 and the rooftops are more than we thought but if we do the controls that would maybe allow us to limp those rooftops along for another 5 years and push them out even more you know unfortunately I don't have the expertise without the engineers getting involved to to make that call and would this not the design but the HVAC itself would that be green communities eligible yeah I think anytime we're replacing hpac there's there's the opportunity for that so it seems like across the town school you know schoolie and Municipal side we should be seeking to phase these in such a way that we maximize grant opportunities yeah I think with green communities we have one more round where we can get up to 200 and then we're capped to 100 a year I believe if we use that up okay yeah and I think I think the controls is is a good option if we can get that going and keep those units you know it allows you guys to allocate money elsewhere cuz I know this it's desperately needed everywhere so okay Windows the next one is Town Hall window replacement um so the vast majority of the windows on Town Hall have been replaced from The Originals with some vinyl windows um the exception to that is the five basement windows are still original um a couple of issues with the windows one they're you know 8 or 9 ft tall so even opening and operating the windows you know each sash is huge then the other issue we have is at some points we have ceilings running in and the window going past looks kind of silly it's not the end of the world but um so our thought thought was and it kind of came from based off the design for replacing the windows here is have a fixed transom at the top and then two smaller Windows um that's actually what was on Ritter originally I print out just to pass around to you guys what I'm talking about with the the fix panes the top um more matches the style um and then this you know the a lot of these vinyl windows that are in there right now don't work we had a cracked pain cuz a bird flew into it and it was it's not like you can just call up an order the part and pop it in it's you every time a piece of glass brakes over there it's a couple thousand dollar to get it replaced is apdc and historic aligned with the windows selection or is this we haven't taken it through that yet um I don't anticipate a huge push back from apdc or historic only because the windows that are in there are newer vinyl windows and don't match anything remotely historic so I think I think this approach would Garner their support but we haven't got to that level yet all right I I think at this stage is the right time to approach them and have them be proactive rather than reactive in their assessments well it's only if you have a window selection they're going to ask what do you want to replace them with so they're going to want to right they don't have they don't have a window booklet they can pull in and says okay I want you to put in one of these Styles they going ask you they should set requir tents that Chris needs to follow not bring me a rock and I'll tell you if it's the right Rock and my Approach again was apdc approved a window style for this building and that my thought was just stick with something they're they're comfortable with um but these are different era buildings there and that that building is almost 100 years older than this building it is and I don't know if that's a consideration that they have but I would think it would it maybe yeah and and I think you were here for the histrionics that occurred relative to this building I'd rather not appropriate $210,000 and then learn that it's double that because of a historical need that requires a level of customization that doubles the cost the Windows like kind of d as they right yeah that that like Puritan effect of the yeah melting look to it I I would hope not but I I agree we should get apdc on board with you know what they would entertain and you know I'm guessing they didn't exist back when someone slapped byal windows in that building no they did not so we were lucky enough here to find you know the old photos of the original building so we were able to you know cuz right now the only windows in this building I think that are original are the the round windows up top everything else in this building has been replaced at some point um that one again is probably likely to have some green communities grants because it is Energy savings but have not vetted those out yet okay teen center teen center so not sure if you guys have been in there recently but the floors are in rough shape um you know the the usage this building gets from call it 2:00 to uh you know whenever they all leave is quite a bit and the kids have a tendency to trash stuff they included the picture from this week I die there obviously so I I figured I'd throw in a little humor the picture was taken this week from the streaks and Creeks um and this was one that the this was one of the typos that should say 25,000 not 30 okay um the estimates are based off of all the work we just did at the police department for square footage numbers um so for you know 25,000 I think we can get the carpet upstairs replaced with anything but carpet cuz the wear and tear is just not great and the um the VCT on the first floor as well yeah vom plank is great easy to clean very durable easy to install so this has you know a few dollars in there for a design specification for a floor um you know estimator construction contingency and you know our cost per square foot to replace the flooring does I'm going to ask a question you're the expert so I assume the answer is yes but I have to ask uh things like vinyl plank do they actually last and I ask because I've only seen them in high I've seen them installed in many high use areas and seen them go absolutely to crap super fast now they may not have chosen the right Bri V plank for the scenario Etc but I'm always hesitant about it based on I've seen a lot of bad modern flooring yeah I I would agree you know the the Home Depot stuff you get the you know floating in your house typically isn't going to hold up as long um we actually we kind of have a little bit of a test project going we replaced the um all the flooring in the beach house with a vinyl plank mhm um we did that in house with the guys cuz you know when the building's closed for nine months out of the year it's it's easy to pick away at a project like that but that one surprisingly takes a lot of abuse cuz no one wants to wipe their feet before coming in sand and for whatever reason before that building had carpet which is just mindboggling that anyone would think carpet at a beach house was a good idea they quite the aroma to it well they also used to store the the buoys inside they would drag them in at the end of the season soaking wet close the doors and not come back till spring so that that also no longer happens but it's holding up well at the beach house so far yeah that's one year right one year yeah just one season so a lot of the places I'm thinking of in one SE in one season with with similar grit issues for incursion into the building yeah with one season you could tell yeah I mean like in any flooring I mean there's going to be lowgrade residential medium residential high residential then there's going to be low grade Commercial High you know medium I mean so you run the game yeah and that was why puted a little bit of money to to get an architect on board to expect something that is going to hold up and last and have a nice War I mean that main floor takes up beating not I don't think as much the upstairs but the main floor of that building is used yeah and the you know the carpet up the stairs you know they got tape on the lips of it to keep it you know it's I'm impressed it lasts as long as did well I was going to say they make things last there that's I can tell you that right now mhm so any other questions on that and then we go from kids abusing the floor to seniors abusing the floor unbelievable put tennis balls on the Walkers man I don't know W this is recorded man sh so for the senior center request is only for the first floor um and the plan would be to replace everything but the areas of ceramic tile um the flooring is a mix of installed in different years depending on the room you're in you know the their main function room is obviously newer but it gets more use you know we wax the floors this year to get you know some extra use out of them but you know I think the council and aging would like see it it all get replaced um the other issue we're running into and it's not a fun one is carpets in there we've had a couple of um we'll call it Hazmat spills of botly fluids which is just never fun to clean out of a carpet um and that as well as the safety issues of having a nice uniform flooring in there is just going to help the the people that are in there it'll make it easier for them to roll tables into one space or the other it's uh do we have any buckling or like you know stuff that you would stick between two two unlike pieces of flooring that the transition strips yeah there's a few of those now cuz it's you know you walk into the main lobby and there's a area of tile and then if you go this way there's carpet if you go this way it's a different VCT type floor and um it it's quite a bit some of the wheelchairs will occasionally grab a one loose string and you know if you're in a power chair you're not going to notice so by the time someone catches you it's pulled out it's pulled out a string around the corner and how old is the Flor going there um in the newer section it's original that was put on in the '90s the rest of it unfortunately before my time there was not great record keeping of when things were completed in a lot of its best guess and again this one you know contains some money for um drawings and specifications to make sure the were losing the right right materials that'll hold up and I don't want to be the only one saying yeah I like this floor and I don't want to be involved in picking colors at all um I'll let you go ahead I do have another question about that building but that was that was all I had for this one so happy to answer any questions um do you have a plan in your out and I just scanned it and I didn't notice for an elevator for that building uh not right now um the second floor in my opinion and Sue may not agree with it but um right now is the second floor stands is no great use for them up there um I'm not a fan of chair lifts but that would probably be the solution there um but again we would have to come up with kind of a real plan for the use of that space and you know if you go in the the older section where the pool table is you know above it there's on either side there's a little area but there's nothing in the middle it's you know there's a whole bunch of was space I I asked the question because and I couldn't recall if it because she had spoken one of our meetings but I think she might have called it me it might have been outside of a public meeting but um Mrs Lincoln uh calleded me one day to talk about that building and she had mentioned that um the veteran services agent uses the upstairs space in that building apparently or maybe maybe at one point currently the veteran service agent is downstairs next to my office okay down here y okay all right so we we're not programming upstairs in that building at this point not at the moment okay all right I don't think it's ever been programming there there was the time when the veterans agent was there but that's many years ago but that never had programming okay all right I might have misunderstood but anyone else on this one so the next project here from the Parks Commission is um the survey and design of MCN field um there's been a couple ideas floated around but the big ones are kind of making the space more accessible um adding some bathrooms potentially and looking at potentially moving t-ball over there as part of the Marshall Park renovation plan the t-ball field over there goes away um currently they are using the old Primary School field which is getting by but it's not they're just playing in a grass field and putting bases out there so it's it's not the best thing in the world but for now now it'll do um there's also the potential that's been floated for this that um the water district owns a piece of land AB buding it of potentially some kind of a land swap to be able to expand the park that way so this one is really going to be survey and start the process of conceptual designs to in the future do something more with the space so the Marshall Park plan removes the T ball field from Marshall Park but preserves the softball SL minor league ball space as part of the martial Park plan Powell field is largely untouched you know maybe there was talk of taking the softball dugouts over there because they were nicer um but the t-ball field goes away the softball and the 90 foot Diamond would be rotated and rebuild but pow field would largely stay as is okay you can't really touch po field cu it's too close to Wetlands and yeah they wouldn't have let them build that today the way it was done I don't think it was allowed to be built when it was built if you knew Ray Powell you understand we did some test pits out there recently and that whole when you go down there and you hang a right that is all filled that was just piled in there what's the difference I'm guessing its size but what's the difference between a t- ball field and a regular D baseball diamond so the t-ball field that they had was really just a stone dust lot and it's significantly smaller than the Little League fields and the Little League fields I believe they changed their regulations this year I think they're part of the Cal Ripken league and their some of their distances have changed and then the softball is a little different because they don't have the grass in the INF field yep and then you get into the 90ft diamond which can be anything from what it is now as a regular High School field to sizes similar to what Fenway has out there this is not a there not a great standard of field sizes I I grew up in a town with uh less money than lunenberg so we played t-ball on the Little League field so I just didn't know what the there's no reason you can't play t-ball in the Little League fields there's no reason why you can't play it where you're doing it right now I played it where the library is stands now and it was a it was a grass lot you know it they I I guess my question so so last year I inferred that the thinking on this was potentially to get two Fields out of this space plus parking plus bathrooms is that still kind of the where the head where your head is in terms of or is it repurpose this space plus parkings plus bathrooms I think it could be a combination of both I think getting a second field in there would be huge um and again I don't know that making it specifically for for t-ball is the right way to do it and again you know you kind of made the surveys and some conceptual plans to see what's what's going to fit and what's even possible but you got two usable fields at Fitzgerald you've got fields at Marshall you could potentially make this a designated t-ball Place potentially could and we have plenty of baseball fields they're they take up a ton of room they're only used very inflor do you have any feelings about rectangular fields on the other hand s far always a pro we never softball I I get it and to be honest the softball girls made it to the playoffs and the boys didn't this year so I think the softball should have a little more attention at the moment the other thing I dis I don't like the idea of moving the softball dugouts the boys field the thought was move the softball dugouts to Powell and new dugouts for the softball oh well new dugouts is good and and the only reason that ever came up was because um the owner of Astro crane has been involved in little leag for the years and I think he had volunteered the use of the crane to move them oh okay so whether any of it comes to fruition we is yet to be seen but would it if you just decided that you were going to designate that field as it exists today for t-ball is there anything stopping you um other than the politics of everyone getting involved in it I mean I mean just can you use that field and play tball on it you could I think you'd be better off at Fitzgerald than this one um but it's you know all kind of hinges on the numbers of little league and you know if no one's playing little league no one's going to be playing High School um you know those of you that know me or my family history baseball is kind of a big thing for us so I like the idea of it but at the same time we need rectangular Fields as well and there's been talk of future stuff the Parks Commission has some land up on Northfield and the plan for the future at some point is um rectangular Fields up there I think you just also need park space like the problem I always have with baseball fields and even I was down the one near Wallace rank yesterday just walking around it and yeah you have all this open land and people are in these little areas you got baseball fields that no one's on and no one even goes in there to like play right and I think it's because it's fenced in and it's just closed and it's not so I think we have plenty of baseball fields in town we have more than enough in my opinion especially for the the league is like way lower than probably when I don't know if you're if Ray played or anything but Ray did not but I did and it's probably a third of what it was I mean there used to be two major teams they were down to two major teams and they just used to play each other you know it's kind of silly I think we had six and four six minor four major and then B oh your memory is better than mine it wasn't that long since I was playing and I can't remember how many teams there were and then the other hard part with you know the leagues is the infields were all different that's what gets really hard on field design we also have some maintenance cost because stone dust is the worst thing you could ever use for infields it's just the weeds love it okay we fought drainage issues forever when we were on the board of the Little League we still have some we have some significant drainage issues at Fitzgerald in the spring you know that one of the fields you can't even get on at the moment and there's Parks technically doesn't control fitzgeral field it's a conservation property yeah I didn't know that yeah that's a weird yeah huh okay so it's you know we we maintain it but it's Park technically doesn't own it and I don't know that means anything in the real world but it is a conservation property don't talk about it okay can we delete that from the that's interesting okay and I think it's a little bit on the neighbors's laot here too I wasn't going to say that in the open meeting no Li all right uh and the last one I have on here or second to last I guess um Marshal Pond weed treatment um so this was another one that the Parks Commission felt was important um we got into initial estimate of just over A4 million dollars to hydro rake the entire Pond and I don't think anyone thought there was an appetite for that kind of money for that work so the thought was to basically take 50,000 and start with clearing out kind of the center of the pond to help the the water flow and do some limited chemical treatment in there and and see how that works out and if if more is needed I think part of that thinking is currently in the Marshall Park master plan there is trails that lead down there in a viewing deck and expanding the parking area right on Highland there so it would make sense if that whole thing it's done to have that Park be more usable people can get kayaks in there and you know there's quite a bit of wildlife to look at so it's I certainly think there's some Merit to it um oh K kayaking is allowed on that pond as far as I know yeah I have no I have no clue like you ask kaying it's AOW question I don't think there's any restrictions on the pond it's not a conservation property I think the uh you know one of the issues that that I've seen with that pond has been there have been Winters where there's good ice but you can't skate on it because the weeds have are above the ice whatever the lily pads or whatever the heck they are and you know in in my youth this was a center of activity in the winter specifically because of skating um and you know it we have weirdly and I don't know if it's weather patterns or water level or what I have no idea but certain Winters there has been a lot of skating out there and then certain Winters there hasn't yeah the last few years we've gotten you know we'll get good ice and it'll be on like a Wednesday so no one uses it and then it warms up on a Friday and it's junk before the weekend yeah it's the way it works yeah so I I mean I don't and I don't know if you know it's a little warming thing or whatever but but my thinking is if there was a way to to bring that back somehow right like that would be worth the money in my view but as an ice fisherman I'll tell you that the number of winters we have had where the ice in recent years where the ice I mean I can't comment about that pond in particular but we've had several Winters where the ice almost or never uh is anywhere vaguely safe the cool thing about this Pawn too is it's shallow yeah and it's small so you're gonna you're gonna have usable ice sooner than you would on say you know Lake Shirley or or wh I mean the last time I was Pawn skating was on the VFW in Townson and that night eight of us went through the ice and and again it was only 2 or 3 feet deep so it was just kind of like oh now we're wet but was October too I think we were actually into December the VFW there also does have a bar so do it that would you will we had a permit did that expire that was one of the pushes for last year was that I think around a permit we're still working through a couple of permanent issues that um I think the conversation should be had offline okay just don't want to put my foot in my mouth on something and have it yeah yeah you know right all right but that is something that we need to understand the permit window so the the the permitting it's typically I think a 2-year permit um and the the issue is not related to Marshall Pond we were permitting multiple things at once okay but last year there was some C some controversy around when the permit date was actually opened so the permit is currently not open okay so that and that was the nature of the Beast was that it was stated that the permit was open and it was going to close and somebody else said well it was never actually open currently the permit isn't open okay and you know I would hate to open it if this is doesn't make it as a priority this year and have it expire on us because it's it is quite the process to anytime you get involved in treating water Y and this would only basically get about 20% of the project right yeah and that's it was trying to test it before we did the whole thing yeah and it's you know obviously out by the road where the light poles used to be for the skating would be the ideal area you want um but it would be you know kind of cut a path all the way back as close as you can to where it really originates to again for kayakers and you know I remember driving by every morning the summer there's a couple Turtles out on the log and there's quite a bit of wildlife in there the water here flows from as we're looking at this right to left uh yes and it flows out through the great there goes under Highland and into the peep blog and then eventually makes its way behind the cemetery and do we know if there's fish in there I have not Jack no I see people with fishing poles there on the regular I know for sure there's beavers yeah there a lot of beavers time okay wonder if it could be Stu probably could um the last one I have on there is just kind of a a heads up of something that's coming um I don't have the estimate I'm expecting it mid November number um but the current capital plans we have for Ritter are nowhere near enough the we have the estimate for the window material only and that almost takes up the entirety of the capital project for the exterior repairs and that's just for the material but if we were have move forward with the current plan of record coming out of the the building design committee or whatever it's called now um would we do this or would just roll that all into that um project it desperately needs it the the windows here I mean my office is downstairs and when the wind blows paper's on my desk move you know it's the most of the windows downstairs aren't operable up here it's 50/50 um we had montech come in and do a um energy audit as part of one of their classes and obviously we're losing all of our energy through the windows you know it's and then we have potentially there would be five windows on the far end where the annex would be that would be depending on if the annex is connected or not maybe some of those would be wasted I guess for lack of a better term but at the moment realistically we're years out of having that Annex and it's the heat we're losing here is just so nothing on the current plan would negate anything that the building committee is planning to do in terms of building an Annex to this building all of that value would be retained with the current plan yeah with the exception of again if they connect we may take a couple windows out conversation right okay but it's so I mean as I think about this and I would like to understand what the Delta is right but I feel like everything else on this list should come after closing the gap on stuff that we committed to multiple years ago and it kicked the can because of apdc whatever and you know like we should prioritize finishing the projects that we've already committed to again that's just me I I don't disagree and we're we're finally making some progress and knocking some of these off I just wasn't able to get an estimator on board in time to to get you guys the numbers you know because we have we have plans that are ready to go and then the next phase was getting an estimator we had an estimate when our previous Town manager was still here and the two of us talked and agreed that the I think it was eight or $8 or 9,000 or so for the construction estimate for this building the current estimate we or the current people we're working with it's about 4,000 so they're they're working on an estimate right now it just it was like pulling teeth to get anyone to answer the phone because in the public works world this is a small project especially with all this AR stuff going on but yeah I mean it is what it is but this building isn't going anywhere like we got to you know what I mean like oh I think I think this building would look great and having the exterior done doesn't matter what we do inside but it's it's still going to look it's only going to get better so so to that point though on backlog of projects have we seen have we asked for that I think we should ask for a backlog and a projection of when all the current projects will be done because if we're just approving money this year and it's not going to be done for 3 years CU we have so much backlogged then I think that shapes the way you think about this year's capital projects we should see progress towards what we vote in on on that year I agree 100% and luckily this year we're finally we're finally making some progress we got the library painted we're in punch list stage there uh the roof for the half of the senior center uh we have an awarded contractor I'm working on getting them on board um I had two bid openings today for DPW roof and DPW garage floor which is arpa funds so those will be done before the floor needs to get done right away cuz temperature and I'm hoping the roof will be just as quick um Library teen room Expansion Project is we had our first walk through today um Town Hall roof which was a bigger project and in consultation with the previous Town manager we kind of split it up to get the roof part done first our first walk through was today so we are finally making some real progress and knocking these off I guess what would I'd like to be able to identify and this could you know if it comes in mid November it comes in mid November is where are the funding gaps even if we can't put a finger on it just knowing where the funding gaps are I think would be instructive do right I think I can put something together kind of at least give you an idea where the holes are because this is a quite a puzzle you know this year we don't have a we will not have a continuous Town manager I mean you know there's just a lot but we just got to jugle M I'm I'm hopeful that next year we'll have a real plan from the building design people and we can adjust from there and and keep moving forward so I had a bit of a hair brain idea today maybe but I'm going to throw it on the table anyways so Main Street Bank is moving out oh I didn't know that they're gone yeah and that that's about to be listed for I think lease perhaps sale but I think lease um the only thing that seems to be at TC pasos if schools actually pulls out is the um Studio the the the gym and the food pantry as well okay in the wings yeah but I wonder if we couldn't secure Main Street Bank as a lease and move the studio in there it's certainly worth uh talking about I know we had we looked at a couple locations for packs we moved them recently within TCP um actually pick got like parking spots too I think yeah and I think it' be easier for them not having a wheel equipment in and out of the building but I do know ceiling Heights was an issue for them so we would just have to confirm that it works but I think that's certainly it's pretty good idea because that that eliminates one yeah what I would love to see with TCP is keep the gym and the food pantry open on the front Wing shut the rest of it down drain the building and start a batement because knock it down what' you say knock it down don't shut it down knock it down you know part part of our issues there is we're bleeding so much money in that building yeah and it's it's it's brutal I mean the gas bill alone is more than we take in in Revenue so the thought was shut down the heating systems the sprinkler and start a batement because no matter what we have to Abate that building right and you know if it's a million dollars this year it's going to be a million two next year and more the next so the longer We Kick the Can down the road in the abatement portion and then second to that if people come in all of a sudden see a big empty space if the schools decide to replace Turkey Hill instead of trailers maybe we could fit up a space for temporary classrooms or it it gives more options and if it still ends up as tearing down then we tear it down but we didn't lose anything by abating it early yeah I understand the gym I I think having the gym there is nice um and I understand the food pantry but you know I I think we got to get on the path of just demolishing that building my opinion and I do not think we should be replacing roofs I kind of lost that debate but well that's kind of at the moment why we haven't pulled the trigger on the other section cuz we don't have a plan you know I'm personally not a huge fan of tearing the whole building down I think structurally it's fairly sound but every other system is failed or failing you know the the current roof that's on there was put on an 86 and they have a 20-year lifespan so at 38 years I mean even when we walk it right now to find leaks every time you step foot on that thing you're causing more damage and it's there's another roof under it so if the leak is over you Tom the actual hole in the roof could be 150 ft away cuz it leaks through one and then goes through the section of the old one that's still intact and it eventually Finds Its hole you know the leaks in pack it never leaked during the rain it was a day or so after all of a sudden a waterfall would open up get out of there so I think if if leasing that would is viable I think that's something we should we should I think we should certainly look at it even if it's not viable we have to look at it to figure it out you know yeah so right uh we're on slide 20 what do we got that's it that's it right next one says thank you uh so couple of follow-up items uh definitely we need to get that spreadsheet um with all updated numbers as well as if you could update the deck so that we have continuity of information there um and obviously identifying the the items that are placeholder numbers such as you know an estimate where there's aign where there's a design thing relating to a screw ball number hairball number around what the actual cost is by the way there's a lot of that in the school stuff too it shouldn't be too bad to that I mean some of it I have to adjust formatting because I don't know that anyone understand my gibberish and notes on there yeah but you know formatting stuff like that's fairly easy okay um you mentioned a couple of times abatement at TCP is that in one of those slides uh not one of these slides um is part of the out years yeah we had budget numbers for the out years I don't know how accurate they are last year I actually asked you guys for money to complete the survey not knowing that we actually had it which was fairly embarrassing but it's not the craziest thing that's happened unfortunately all the password records are in paper no one knows where they are you know John L's office is still full of paperwork over in Brooks house and it's so we have the survey information yep for that building yep yeah we have the as besta survey luckily one of the biggest items is the roof has almost no asbestos in it only areas are cocking at the edges and windows but the interior of the building the floors are all of it the all the pipe insulation and to get to the pipe insulation is very destructive so there's no abating that in just continuing to use the space you know the ceilings are not traditional drop ceilings they're the old cardboard things that once we start abating a space we're cutting it there then there's really no in between one of oh you done with that yeah what's the plan for the gas station that is a fantastic question that I'm not able to answer the previous Town manager kind of kept that one at arms length for me and I really just handled access for when people needed to get in and out so I'm not 100% positive where we are with that one I do know they're still they were out there testing the monitoring Wells last week but beyond that I'm not sure where we are with it so what's the current status of the building we own the I believe property the building yeah we own the property we just own it and everything is completed on the last the the tanks of all pulled out and now we're just at monitoring stage and um Heather had been working with uh the mass Redevelopment people on kind of a plan of where to move forward with the building yeah they they came to the planning board solicited some feedback presented some Concepts there was discussion um not that they could really do anything other than kind of then have a plan in place so that when it was sold to someone else event eventually likely I mean to some private entity it would be kind of and like here's what you can like here is proof of what you can do with this space developing it yeah is there anything we could do Grant related to just say like knock it down put in a food pantry there so part of the issue grants or part of the issues they have over there is it's in the village District so right now you're kind of grandfathered on some of the stuff but if you knock it down and rebuild anything you rebuild has to be two stories and the space requirements of parking you really can't get and there's there's a bylaw that if there's parking available within I think a th000 ft you know you can push the limits which the thought was well we have all the parking here at Ritter you know the air is there but you know at one point I floated the idea of using it as a facilities garage and that was one of the quickest NOS I ever got um and part of that is again the village District doesn't want two big garage doors so the the building's in in rough shape but savable but again it's it used to be on a septic tank that no longer exists so now it needs to be connected to S so there's there's some work there for whoever takes it over but it would be great to get the isur out of the center of town is there a single garage door on there right now two and we don't want that I don't think we can keep it that way based off of the rules and again it's it's just another thing for us to maintain that I think I think selling it would be better there was at one point the idea floated of seeing if the guy who owns Main Street Bank wants it because excuse me my understanding is he owns the whole lot there of the bank the post office all of it so there was some thought of hey here's an buting property that's coming up for sale you have an interest but again I was kind of kept at arms length from that okay there's been no discussion at select board around that CH of that proper what was just discussed is the latest I I know that we own it now all the stuff is done and we were getting ready for see how we could Market it but you know it's either with the building or without the building and there's pros and cons of both because of the size the postage stamp size of the lot and if you did it with something that was going to be you know mixed use then you need parking touched them little bit so that's where we are yeah personally I think it make a great coffee shop or something of that effect or a baker or some kind of small office y it could the the new owner would almost certainly have to come to an arrangement for parking at because we don't have public lots that are super available they'd have to come to arrangement with the owner of the lot behind or something you can as you said you can slush parking in the center District more or less as long as there's enough parking within I think is a ,000 ft it's like close to a quar mile but not quite it's flexible um but you have to have you have to have spots that are dedicated to your count for parking and that's where it get you don't have to have dedicated spots like Cafe parking only but any given parking spot can only be counted once because otherwise everyone would pick the same five spots and right there wouldn't be parking I think it's going to be a a lot of people agree a coffee shop would be really nice I I think anything there is going to be a a challenge but I'm not a developer and developers have ways of making numbers work it's not going to be easy whatever it is I guess all depends on to if the if the town wants to make an agreement of you know give us a dollar and you have it based off these conditions or if we were trying to make some money off of it m you I don't I don't I don't think we're looking at making any money it's also I think subject to this new tax taking um rule where we can't make a profit off of a property that's been taken oh yeah again we're not looking to do that anyway is the new rule you just can get recoup your tax loss and that's it you yeah because you can't you you can't you can't make a profit off the back of somebody who has lost a pro property due to the tax taking I'm over I'm not stating it correctly but close enough for a mass Supreme Court thing any okay all right anything else for uh Mr Ruth no thank you all right thank you very much I will get the those revised documents over to you as quick a second okay I have one more question for you is that the same water bottle you had last year it is wow I'm rough on my bottle is cool there we go he he saw mine and went and bought the same one and then the same color yeah wound up with the same color but I I see how pristine yours is and mine is mine Tak Good Hits I've had to bend this back a few times and yeah this doesn't really sit flat anymore but okay uh we have three sets of minutes that we have uh run by you all they are from 7:10 7:31 and 109 uh are there any comments questions concerns motions to be had no questions no comments no concerns from me I would entertain a motion to approve the minutes for 710 731 and 109 as presented so moved second all those in favor I OPP none is unanimous we have approved three sets of minutes um I as I explained him Mr Alonzo did not stay tuned to uh committee reports last night pertaining to the select board has there been any further discussion on the policy manual no I I did not mention I mentioned that we met then heard a presentation I didn't bring up that so I apologize okay there was lots of other stuff going on yeah no I understand that it's totally understandable I and I have not constructed an email that I talked about the other night but I will put that on my list of things to do I don't think it's worth further discussion tonight okay um we have a future meeting scheduled for November 4th at that meeting we will hear that's Monday right on Monday yes okay uh we will hear um currently scheduled is DPW and fire uh do not have subsequent meetings planned at this point we still have the available meetings calendar which is still current I know Mr Menard is traveling in November as am I so I might suggest that we look at some remote meetings uh following the 4th and could circulate some of those as proposals are our presentations done on November 5th is that what the the only outlier is it which we have not nailed down is that amendable to you guys is to meet via Zoom yeah yeah I'm going to be in like way different time zones so okay so if you can't we'll get you up and yeah I mean what's next it's we're going to roll these up we're going to do an initial like we did last year order of the current year um collect them I think it's really probably a two meeting minimum following the fourth to get that done and then we'll You Know sketch out a plan for how we deal with the out years what's our supposed deadline on all this before Christmas before Christmas yeah okay so we have early December to indeed we had the best of intentions but here we [Laughter] are okay any further discussion on meetings is there any public comment none from me y hearing none oh will entertain a motion to adjourn second all those in favor we are adjourned thank you everybody