All right. Uh, good evening. Uh, tonight is the 17th of December, 2025. It is 7:03 p.m. My name is Peter Beardmore, chair of the Bloomberg Capital Planning Committee, and I am calling tonight's meeting to order. Evening.
Uh, in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be able to be found on the Lunberg Access YouTube channel after the meeting. To view remotely from a computer, you can use um links provided
in the agenda which are posted at town hall and on the town calendar. Uh, you can also dial in uh using numbers that are available on those uh on that document. Uh the agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably
anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law. Uh
okay. Let me pull up the Zoom. Is there any public comment? All right. Hearing none, uh, next item on our agenda is the chair's report. Uh, so the game plan for tonight as outlined in the agenda is to review uh,
submissions. Thank you all for getting me your submissions for um, uh, the order of merit for capital plan requests. Um we will go through and reveal everybody's uh ranking, look at the average and the median and um
hopefully take a uh get a consensus in terms of where we we currently are. Um, having thought a little bit about the town manager's discussion in terms of where we are relative to certifying free cash and understanding
the financial condition that we are going to find ourselves in the spring. It's all delayed uh relative to where we uh have been in past years and and really, you know, um our expectations relative to what is outlined in the
charter. Um, I think that the best that we can do for tonight is to do what we've done in the past and just come up with an order of merit list. Um what will be evident when I reveal what uh we've come up with is that you know
there are some pretty chunky items in there that are several hundred,000 that may be an opportunity for the town manager as she gets closer to making a recommendation for a capital plan to strategically move big items up and down
to be able to account for >> um smaller items. um a as well as you know how we might be able to financially engineer some things using stability accounts or borrowing or or what have you. So what she and I discussed earlier
this evening um is that ideally we would come to a tenative vote if you will um or a provisional vote uh this evening um with the agreement that as she gets closer what might be late January early
February who knows given uh what we learned at the last meeting um that we will come back and uh have another discussion relative to the financial condition and the likely recommendation that she'll make. And at that point, we
might even be able to choose to endorse a recommendation um or revise our recommendation, however we see fit at the time. Um so, I just wanted to kind of share that thinking and set those expectations. The good news is is I
think that at least tonight we'll be able to meet our charter um requirement to submit a recommendation um by the end of the year. Um secondly, uh and we'll talk later in the meeting um I do want to obviously
visit the outears um and we'll talk about that later in the meeting um how we should do that and the timing uh and kind of set expectations and think about the calendar. Obviously, it's going to be a busy time in late January, February, and March for the town manager and the finance committee in particular,
but um hopefully we can find a way to um address some of those longerstanding issues that we've been talking about. That's all I have. Um Madam Town Manager, anything? >> Nothing new. >> All right. I'm sure
>> nothing new regarding this topic. Okay, great. Got it. Okay, so what I'm going to do is I am going to open my spreadsheet and share my screen. Not necessarily that.
All right. So, the uh columns A, B, and C. Um, and row one you have all seen because I emailed that to you twice last week. Um, and
columns D, E, F, G, and H represent our individual rankings of the items. Um what I have done is I have broken out uh into four tabs. Um the next tab that
I'll show you is sort of the calculus of where these stand uh based on average and median. Uh and then I'll show you the rankings uh based on average and medium in order. Um along with a tally of the the total cost as we work down
the line. So you can draw your imaginary line and kind of see where it lands. Um so the first I would ask you to do um is to take a moment and I can either make this smaller so that all 22 lines fit
um or I can just scroll down. Um, if you could check your columns to make sure that they still reflect what you submitted to me. Um, I did
check for redundancy. Um, because that has happened in the past where we've had >> two 15s. Um, and I think we're good. I think we have literally one to 22 uh in each column. >> It looks right for me because I I see a
change that I made. though. >> Can you go down at the bottom? >> Oh, it is the last one. Yep. >> Yeah, >> that should fit all. >> If you you could double if you double click up in the ribbon, you can hide it temporarily.
>> So, the only error is >> like on if you double click on data or whatever. Sorry. >> And it's my fault cuz I see what I did. But the last item, 22. My ranking for that should be 22, not
12. >> The IT1. >> The IT1 cuz I have two 12s and it would I >> Oh, yeah. What I did was I was copying I I I had a mistake >> and I so I copied them over on the other
side, but when I was copying the list, I just >> I only you didn't want to know the >> wrote 12 instead of 22. >> Okay. >> All right. That could change the math here um or the order. So, this may cause me to need to do >> a little bit of work on tabs three and
four, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. >> Sorry about that. >> No worries. That's why we did it. All right. Anyone else? >> Mine looks right. >> Mine looks right. >> Okay, good.
Okay. So, the calculations now um I did for each of these a median. Um, so for those of you uh who have not been in previous episodes of this, the
median is basically the middle ranking. Um, and if for some reason there isn't a middle ranking, then it creates an average of the two of the the two uh most central. Um, but with five uh members, we have whole numbers for
medians because we have an odd number of numbers. Um but we do have some ties >> as a result of that. >> Um and then put in order and I
don't know if this will affect that line 23. I don't think it will Rob but >> Yep. Um, here is the average. And we just need to make sure now that
the average because I've already sorted these um are still in order from from top to bottom. Uh, so they appear to be
uh let me see if I can move this. So I don't Yeah. Um 2 3 three five six 68 68. So we have a tie right now for 9 the the primary
school design and the supervisor cruiser 8 9.2 11.6 12.6. We have a tie between the six wheeled dump truck and the dump activity center network upgrade. Uh 14.6 15.4
16 16.6. We have a tie between uh the Fitzgerald Field and the Heat for Thes and 17.4 17.8 and a tie on the last two. >> The new West Hamilton Road at the uh PC
Basio's abatement. >> Mr. Chair, if I may, the first tie is between the supervisor cruiser replacement and the public safety building roof repair. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Did I read the wrong line? Yep. Yep. Okay, you're right. Got it. >> Any questions?
>> No. >> Any surprises? >> Not really. No. >> No. I >> mean, the only one that I had high was the TCP pass as a pavement. >> I was surprised. I I I wanted to ask you why cuz I saw that >> I want that building gone >> and I want the Brooks house gone
>> and I think we got to start moving in that direction because we are losing money >> associated with those things and we got to do it at some point. That's why I have it high. I just think this town needs to start taking action which was that's my thought on it.
>> Oh pure and simple. >> Yeah. My my feeling though is it should just be bundled with whatever we're doing with it. >> Right. I agree. But then I hear Chris's point and I recognize that that implies we're
going to ever do something with it. And of course in theory we are. >> Mhm. >> But I've been sitting here for fewer years than some people at this table in town government, but enough to I have seen no. Every year we talk about the
Brooks House. Every year we talk about what about TC Pacios and we get about that far and so I also I get the logic of funding it at least pushes in a
direction >> I mean it needs to be done and it's only getting more expensive and I assume it's more expensive than inflation year-over-year on abatement. So I would no matter what happens that project needs to occur which is that that's my
thinking on it just pure and simple. But I >> I don't disagree with what anybody said. I just think that we have, you know, very limited at bats relative to these 22 items. Everything that we're going to do here, at least in terms of the discussion we've had thus far in our
order, uh, and and the way we've funded capital planning for most of the last several years, is it's all raise and appropriate, which is inside the levy, non-expended capital, or free cash, very
limited funds. And given that limitation, we've got 3.3 almost million dollars of requests. Let's say we fund between 1 and 1.5 million as we've done on average over the last several years. I'd rather fund
something that is going to have a actual effect on people's lives, either safety or education or recreation or something um than dealing with a problem that yes, we have to deal with, but we could do it as a package of excludable debt or um
you know, some other means that is not one of the the previous mentioned funding sources. Um and and Chris, I I totally understand your your point on that. However, your approach is inconsistent because you've you've depprioritized
all of the Brooks House renov um uh issues basically for exactly the same purpose, which is we've got to deal with it until we come up with a plan. We're not going to prioritize it, but you're taking approach for TCP. >> That's not what I'm saying. We need to
deal with with um the abatement of asbestos. We can't do anything without doing that. I would rather the pricks house just >> be the next controlled burn that Chief Sullivan uses to train his firefighters. >> Okay. >> Because it's going to sit there in 10
years in the same exact state it's in today. So there is a there is a >> there's a difference. >> There's a consistency that is >> associated with any I I see your point. I'm not persuaded. >> The other thing I I want to just point out is I don't think we should only be
dealing with race and appropriate. I think we should be looking at um whether it's in the the levy or outside the levy um borrowing to start dealing with some issues. I also think we should be looking at how we're dealing with uh
chapter um chapter 90 funding as a means potentially to use some of these. And if that was the revenue source was chapter 90 funding, perhaps I would say like something even lower in the list could be could be dealt with with those with
those revenues. >> So I agree. >> I'm just going to add here to the chapter 90 piece as our budget gets more and more constrained in the operating budget >> that pavement management line I don't
see that lasting. Um we will be relying on chapter 90 for road maintenance. And I would add to the the list of funding sources a capital outlay exclusion too instead of borrowing. >> Yeah. >> As a possibility.
>> Um so anyway I that was one outlier and you know I go back to the individual rankings just if you're curious and want to take just a minute to see you know any other outliers. There weren't any that were tremendously out of whack. Rob had the primary school
driveway and the playground considerably lower than everybody else did. >> Somewhat arbitrarily. My feeling was the design stuff was a lower priority for me than the
actual stuff, >> which I know doesn't make complete sense because you got to design it before you build it. But with limited resources, I want to do shovel ready things before I do designing things. I think we got to get in the habit of
bundling design and actually doing things as well because we do a lot of design >> and then just put that design on the shelf. >> The problem is is that from an from a acquisition standpoint in some cases it's impractical to do
that. >> I don't know. >> You can't put if you're not doing the design work, you can't put your project out to bid. So you don't have a good uh construction cost estimate. So you're either vastly overestimating
the project and going for too much or you're underestimating and not able to complete the project. So that's why the design is so important on some of these to see what's possible, what's under the earth, what >> the sampling results, they do the bid docks for you. Um,
>> I get the appro I get what you're saying is the constraint, but I think there's ways of looking at the problem differently that could say here's the design money for it and in future years we would borrow or do something else because t these tend to be bigger projects um so long as it was within
some bound and at a at a town meeting presented in such a way. I think part of it is we need to be we somewhat as a committee definitely as the elected representatives who are who
make up town government as a whole and uh we need to be more thoughtful about that process. is I think people fall into the habit of less so here but I I I bet it factors in somewhat
subconsciously oh design's a lower ticket item but if we're funding design it we really need to understand that that means we're anticipating funding a project unless it comes I mean there's times you get
the design and it comes back and you go oh I'm glad we spent 30 grand so we didn't jump down that rabbit hole. But also, I think uh for some of the other items, that means we're going to need to really improve our communication
to the town's people in advance of an at town meeting to prevent some of those surprise votes on the floor that can scuttle a project. >> Yeah, I agree. I think the design on this one is these two design items for
the schools. you know, we voted them high last year, then changed because of circumstances. I I've driven down there on on Saturdays for soccer games and that that entry and exit way is a disaster. Um, so
and then if the playground is not appropriate and in town we don't have any inclusive playgrounds, I I mean I I think both make a lot of sense to to move forward with. So that's why I I ran it high. >> Okay. Um so we have some ties. We're
going to have to talk through that in a second. I just want to talk through the medians. I don't think there's substantial differences in the medians, but I did want to take a look also because the calculus would have just changed uh a little bit relative to
the IT1. Um it's still in line. Um, so in the past we've looked at median but then have kind of fallen our way back to average. Mhm. >> Um just for your consideration,
the the the principal difference between the two is that if somebody put something way out of whack um from everybody else, they will have a mathematical pull on that number. Right?
So in the case of for example, it's still last but the hazmat abatement is a 22 on the median because Chris's number is disqualified, >> right? As opposed to on the average
>> it's a 17.8 because his his ranking is in the calculus. Um, so in the past we we've always kind of found our way back to average, but I do think that, you know, median is somewhat informative as well. >> I I think it's important and this is the
first year I'm not I don't have outliers. I frequently do and uh I've advocated for median in the past as well as another reference point in part because I've seen my outliers at times
pull things more than maybe I thought my opinion should >> because it was so radically different from the group. And I I appreciate the second data point. Mhm. >> The other thing I would point out is is that if you look at like the top seven, eight, you know, maybe even nine or 10
if we were to, you know, fully fund this based on previous funding sources, um they're not going to change, you know, substantially, right? Um >> I think median on most sample sizes is is not >> Yeah, it is hard. It's another statistic. Um the one the one that falls
a little bit outside um in terms of the number um and it's not that far out uh is the it's only a couple of points is the the public safety controls upgrade. I think it drops from like nine from from 11 goes up to nine on the median. I
think that's a fair conversation to have around that and the the school's door um intercoms. it while you're flagging particular ones. One that is jumping out to me on the ranking list is the primary school window safety film. Um because
when we removed um the school projects in the at the Maytown meeting, there were representations made that we were swapping out those projects that we removed and placing them on the FY27 capital plan because that one was so
there were three requests that were on that were removed. Uh there were more than that but that are repeat. So, the primary school uh the expansion design, the playground design, and the window safety film. So, we've made commitments around the window safety film that it
was going to be on the FY27 when we removed it from the FY26. And I don't know if that >> it's a fair point. My recollection is a little bit different and maybe because I'm in it, when I say something, I
expect that people understand what I say the way I said it. Um I I think the way the school committee represented this was that it understood that the process
restarts and the items would be shifted forward to a capital request for FY28. >> So tech Yeah. So I'm just reading what I put in the summary. So the four items that were originally intended for the FY26 capital plan would then be
resubmitted for consideration in the fall, >> right? >> So Okay. >> Yeah. And I I think that that was well understood at town meeting. >> Um I but it's a I I appreciate you bringing it up because I think it's a very good point and
>> there was a lot of angst and discussion that went around that decision to do that. So um okay um so let's just have sort of a general discussion. I don't think there are substantial changes but I think we're more comfortable with average than
median for the reasons discussed. Okay. >> So let's and we this let's have a two-part discussion. Part one is let's look at the ties and determine what goes above or below. Um and then part two is
in its totality like is there something that we want to change? Okay. Um maybe I should have done those in reverse order but I'm not. So relative to lines what are actually priority
um six and seven not but lines seven and eight on the spreadsheet. The cruiser replacement um which is the supervisor cruiser and the public safety roof repair. Those are
both 6.8s on the average scale. Now, notably, they are substantially different in cost. >> Yeah. >> Um, any thoughts on the order there? I'd keep them in the order that they're in. >> Same. >> Yeah.
>> And which which order are they in? >> Supervisor, cruiser first. >> Uh, and I'll be the contrarian just because in in my rankings, I had them reversed. I had the cruiser quite low and the the roof repair quite high. So I
I would if I was doing this myself, I would do them the other way. >> Okay. I'm comfortable with the way they are. Again, I think >> and I'm comfortable with the way they are, too. I do them the other way. >> We will invariably come back to this because anytime you get a big ticket
item next to smaller ticket items, this is where the town manager has to make a judgment call, right? And in her recommendation, we will come back to >> um Okay, so let's move down the list of ties. So 14 and 14, which are lines 13
and 14, um, or list number 12 and 13 respectively, um, are the DPW sixheel dump truck spreader plow and the IT Deltity Center network upgrade. Once again, big number next to a little
number. Uh but in this case in reverse order >> I'm comfy with the way it is because I see the I mean I p I personally view the dump the the dump spreader plow as more
missionritical than being completely up to date at the adult being completely up to date with the network at the adult activity center. Um but That's me to to me one is much more
safety focused >> and and I I'm happy with that order because I had the the network activity quite low. Uh and my my reasoning for that may be off, but I felt like that
was items that were cobbled together to just barely get over our $20,000 threshold. and I didn't necessarily want to reward that. >> So, I have a little bit different
thought on this one. Um, and I am skeptical of the network upgrade just for starters. I think there are possibly cheaper ways of coming at this. However, um, we've just sunk a lot of money into that building. We've got a
fantastic patio out there. We have a lot more going on from a compute standpoint than I realized happening in that building. Um, we do have a lot of activity happening in that building and we should have a consistent network throughout Lunberg. Um, and it was
evident to me that Souzar has a plan to maintain a consistent network throughout Lunberg and rotate it on a seven to nine year basis. Um, so whether or not I agree with how we're networking it, I think that we do need
to take care of it. The flip side, the dump truck. I reviewed um the DBW director's math. He did a business case and very plainly kind of laid out that there is a savings
>> when you buy a six-heel dump truck >> versus pay somebody to do the work for you on that route in a given, you know, in a given year spreading the lifespan of that truck. That being said, it's $400,000 and we
have six of our seven dump trucks of that class in inventory this winter. So, we're going to pay one whereas in past years we've paid six uh in recent years. Um so we made
tremendous progress there largely due to ARPA um but um and a substantial investment and priority that we threw our ARPA money uh uh to this. >> Um but I mean in my mind
once again you get a $259,000 item, a $41,000 item, a $20,000 item. So if the line comes in somewhere around there, you you know what's going to happen, right? Mhm. >> I'm not going to die on this hill, but I would actually flip them. >> Yeah, same in that case. >> I would have flipped them too.
>> Mhm. >> Um I also though I would like town manager to review that business case map because I do not think it accounts for um a fully burdened employee. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I had asked that question at one
of the meetings and then went back and did the math and the burden was like way lower than I think it should be. I don't think it accounts for health insurance. >> Okay. >> And I also think, you know, between
between the six wheel dump truck and then the two the it school items, you could do the three the next three. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. for 100k versus 400k. So I think we're >> whatever we do in this area might not
matter because this may be where >> you know if we're at 2 million versus 2.2 million or 1.9 million versus 2.3 million >> you're going to move >> you you should probably and I suspect you would be moving those.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. So do we have a majority of for now flipping those two items? And as someone who wanted the opposite, I'm fine with that, too. >> Yeah, I think Florida makes sense. >> Okay, >> I'm just going to do that right now. >> Yes,
>> the parks. >> They drove separately, though. >> They don't talk to each other. I guess >> that's the key to a successful marriage, >> is it? driving separately, >> not talking to each other. >> Yeah, I know.
>> I don't know what I just did. I screwed this up. There we go. All right. You may just want to add a column and go one to 22. >> Yeah, I tried that earlier and I messed it up. It wasn't doing the sequential
numbers. I tried it right before I open this, but I will do it later. Um, I don't know why I broke this, but there we go. Okay. Um, all right. So 146
16 164 166 166 >> these may be inconsequential but we can discuss them. >> I'd keep it in that order. >> Uh so it's Fitzgerald Field and Heat for Turkey Hill. >> I'd keep it. >> And then it's New West Towns and Road
and TC Passment. Um I'm not going to spend a lot of time arguing these. I mean, if we come in with a windfall, then I think you have the same logic between 17 and, >> you know, maybe 20 >> again, you're looking at 200,000.
>> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> I think, um, so the Turkey Hill Maintenance Garage, um, I think I probably ranked higher than everybody. Um and my thinking on this
was twofold. One is it improves the overall operational fac um function of the facilities crew in the schools
>> by centralizing where they keep their stuff to where they do their work to that kind of thing. there's a lot more activity happening on that end of Turkey Hill than there is in that small garage space that they have at TC Pasios. So, that's part one. Um,
worth the money to do that? I don't know. But, but there's a benefit. The other benefit is what we got to was the reason that we're doing this and it took a couple of questions >> to get to a consistent answer on this is
that um the town facilities function does not have functional workshop space. Mhm. >> Mhm. So if they want to >> build a bookshelf for a thing like in this area, they're literally doing it
inside of office space. >> They're not they're not priming. They're not, you know, roughing stuff out. They're literally doing it in here >> for lack of workshop space. >> Yes. >> So the schools vacating the TC Pasio space would effectively create that
space, >> right? until such time as we figure out DC Pacios. Um, >> so indefinitely. >> We'll get there at some point. >> Our grandchildren will figure it out. Um, so so I ranked it higher. I'm I'm
not, you know, like I I don't know that it's going to make it above any line if we move it, but that was my logic >> for that one project in particular. I was really surprised with the estimate that it was so high. Now, I understand that it's the bringing the gas. >> Mhm.
>> But like, is there another way to approach the problem without running the gas? >> Yeah. >> Stove. >> No. >> But a pellet stove. >> I heat my house with wood. >> Um, >> I burn the asbestous.
>> Well, so it's a fair question. I mean, another item that we did not have on this list is the garage space of the public safety building, which the intent for that was an electric heater. >> So, you know, maybe there's more to learn
>> as we figure that out. Um, we weren't able to get a good quote, so we dropped it off the list, but you know, you're right. Maybe there's something there there that we could work on. >> Right. Like it see it makes sense, but at that price point, it's difficult. that that is I was I I spoke very
infavorably of this and ranked it lower than I expected I would in the end because of the price point of going oof that's I mean I I was here while they were cutting the wood for that outside and
I'm here when they're painting down painting doors down in the basement here but um the price point made it tricky I have trouble imaging imagining the electrical at Turkey Hill can power a a
heater of almost any magnitude, but maybe the electrical on that part of the building is updated and different as opposed to >> I know there are issues, but >> yeah, >> that one kind of came out of nowhere, too, because I mean, we've been talking
fiveyear plans for the last couple years, and we've never heard of this one before. I think it was a recent realization of a way to shift and reclaim space from when I was talking with Chris Ruth that it was it
wasn't there because it wasn't something that had been processed. Don't >> Yeah. >> I mean don't hold me to that but that was what I got from the conversation. >> The other I mean again not to belabor this but these are two things that we should address.
you know, we need heated storage for certain materials for the school facilities function as well as heated workspace for vehicles and whatnot in that area. A and we also need workshop space. So, we're going to have to deal with these issues sooner or later.
>> This is a fairly lowcost way of kicking one of those cans, right? Um but eventually when when TC Pacios meets a bulldozer, we're going to have to do both, right? What have we done for the last 296 years as a ton >> that
>> what >> not you not have workshop space for a facilities function. >> I'm assuming that it became more emergent when you know the school was very much in TCP right and then
everybody vacated on June 30 except for one department >> one department stay good point. The other thing is is that a few years ago, we did reorganize and move facilities out of DPW, right? So, >> right,
>> when it was all under Jack or whoever it was, >> Jack could say, "Move all those vehicles out. We're going to work on this project in this garage, right, >> for the next few days, >> and nobody thought or cared about it." >> Yeah. >> It's a little bit more operational.
Well, especially when you're when you're looking for a heated space. It's when you're in the winter, right? Which is when you don't want the trucks >> right >> out of the elements. >> Yeah. >> In the summer, we're fine to cutting the lawn. >> I think >> should have never got rid of shop class.
I uh I think I think the leadership change in the schools may be playing into just in terms of as >> my my understanding is that there is a a different level a better level of uh collegiality now
between the departments than there was and I think that is leading to more cooperative thought >> well new thinking when you bring in new people they say why are we doing it this way you know like and sometimes it's because we never actually asked ask ourselves the question right
have 2.6 six million of >> we'll see point. Okay. >> Um so I I think we're resolved. We're not changing any further uh the order. Um so are we okay with this current ranking as our tenative
recommendation of order? >> I am >> sure. >> All right. Is there a motion? >> Would make a motion to recommend the ranking as displayed on Peter screen right now. >> I will second. >> All in favor?
>> I I >> opposed. None. Passes unanimously. >> All right. >> Thank you all. Um I will say that I didn't rank all of the projects, right? But I will say that your first ranking and your last ranking match mine
identically. There's some consistency there. Good. Good. All right. Um >> I want a baby. >> I want to go back. >> Stop sharing and reopen the Zoom. Okay. Um and then I
need to find my buried. Okay. Um so we're past vote on capital recommendation. Next topic is schedule and plan for future meetings. Um, so earlier tonight we talked about, you
know, obviously I need to come back and revisit this at some point at or around when the town manager is ready to make a recommendation. Um, we have spent no time on outyear requests. Um, and so, you know, I think that we need to decide
if we're going to make a concerted effort to review out your requests and come up with a recommendation or communication or further discussion with department heads about outear requests. One way that I was thinking of doing it
is first of all, somebody probably me needs to consolidate the requests into a single document. Um, and we need to kind of review them. And I think there's probably a process of redlinining
just to say like, okay, what are the things that never in a million years would crack my top Apple rankings, right? Like I just fundamentally this does not make any sense to me, right? And I think that we should bring those
to the table and discuss them as a group and see if there's a consensus just on those items so that we can feed back to the department heads like either come back and make a better case or let's stop this madness, right? And and at least start
moving things off the table. >> Um and then Oh, that was about as far as my logic got. But, you know, I I think that we do owe it particularly if we think that this is something that is going to
persist even if we do something creative around borrowing or or capital exclusions or whatever. Um I can't imagine a given year in the next 10 years when we're not going to have you know somewhere but somewhere less
than 50% of the funds we need to to fund a particular year's capital plan. I would imagine when you undergo this exercise, what you're likely to see is over the course of years, the the expenditure ask becomes a bit
exponential in the curve because people just by nature say this is my reasonable request for this year and things get more theoretical or aspirational um the further you go out. So I think the other part of that too is once you
kind of draw that line to say let's level this out a bit so we don't have a spike. >> I agree with all of this. I I do want to call out really explicitly that there were far fewer requests this year that
made my blood boil. Oh my goodness. orders of like there was no request for a third or almost a half million dollars for a stone fence on the cemetery. I I was thrilled. I mean like
>> um but there were far fewer things I looked at and said I I can't believe this has come before me as a something we would seriously entertain. if you have an understanding of how this
budgetary process works in town. So, I really want to give the department heads a lot of credit uh on that front. I I think it's I I think the process you're talking about is super valid, but I also want to point out that the communication we have done
over the past two maybe three years as a committee seems to be helping as well. And so, bully for us. Good point. I think it's a really good point. >> Again, in the future, I I think that list looking out in the out years
against the mechanisms by which we can fund certain things really needs to get looked at. >> Yeah. And I think that that's both a capital planning committee kind of thing and it's also probably a tri board kind of discussion so that we can
collaboratively make decisions as to how we want to spend um these various uh sources of of money. >> Um >> especially when it comes to excludable debt, right? there's you don't want to be having two projects again going
against each other head-to-head or you know where the capacity is too low. I think you're right that >> and then even things like the special reserve fund like do we have enough money in that right now for a you know a ladder truck down the road? >> Do we even still know what we're
funding? Is it only a ladder truck or is it you know could it have been one of these trucks? So I I um those are the kind of decisions I think we need to >> really start driving towards. I mean, I know we're in kind of a transition
period and you're in a crunch and there's some external factors against us, but I still think we should strive as a committee to make that >> the means by which we we do things look at the revenue side as well as the or
the funding side as well as >> But is there not a tool that we have to put all these projects into and be able to spit out these reports that are >> so that tool is clear go >> um which uh the former finance director
and interim town manager decided to not use um and then finance committee if you recall had a pretty strong reaction to that so we decided to retain the software um and the finance director was working towards getting it updated
before his departure but it is not updated I actually have reached out to them and received a response yesterday of, you know, we're this is a substantial cost. It's about $20,000 and we're not utilizing it. So, and I I
don't have a means to utilize it. Pausing the software, which also comes as a cost, or just terminating the software, which is not a decision that I've come to yet. But there there is a tool that we're spending $20,000 on that is not being utilized at the moment. If
do I remember correctly that there I mean I think we're talking four 5 years ago now but do I remember correctly that >> we were having a problem with department heads entering all of their information
all their information into clear gov in a way that was useful. >> We've had all of the problems. We had public access. We got member access. We've had department heads inconsistently >> entering information.
>> Um, who can access that >> right now? >> No, just theoretically, who can can committee members have access to that? >> Probably a view setting, >> but I mean, if if someone were to go >> Oh, yeah, sure. to to
>> if somebody wanted to take on the responsibility >> and work with the vendor to update that all, but you'd have to be pretty you >> I I would imagine you'd have to be an accountant um to at least on not on the capital side, but on the operational side.
>> Yeah, I was thinking on the capital side. >> Yeah, capital side. It's you know there I don't I don't even know if you can do just the the capital the way they have the modules. It's like you want half of this module and half of this module which they don't sell in that package.
So you have to >> Yeah, we had a bit of an integration to the common score thing and all that. >> Yep. That's in there. Yep. >> Um I guess my my thinking on this is
I don't think I think this is my fourth year on the committee. I' I've seen no benefit from clear go 0.0. Yeah. >> Um, in my mind, that money from a capital planning
perspective would be much better spent if somebody could create a really good Excel or um, what's the other Microsoft Smart Sheets kind of interface, you know, that we could use that is really
customtailored to our needs and how we would operate as a committee. In my mind, that would be better. I don't know how that would work even with respect to like open meeting kind of considerations, but you know, I would if you're going to spend $20,000, I'd
rather have spend $20,000 on somebody sitting down with us and saying, "This is what we want to look like in smart sheets and >> you know, and and then we own it, you know, so long as we pay the monthly toll to Microsoft." >> I do think we need to get out of Excel as our mechanisms to budget. Oh, it
can't be emailing back and forth. >> If there's another application that allows for uh archiving and persisting data, then I I am okay with that. But it seems as though when we asked for budgeting software, the answer came back was that
clear gov is what we should be using. So >> that it's the premier software for municipal budgeting. >> I mean, my company uses SAP for a reason, right? We spend a lot of money on it, but we use it. >> Mhm. The reality is is that we have a piece of software that's so this is the
struggle point. We have a piece of software that has not been used since the departure of Heather O'Neal and we're paid 20,000 >> and we're running super lean and we're not you know like at what point are we not going to be running so lean that we can actually have somebody run that thing properly all the other things that
you need to do financially. You know, I think that that is something that a finance director would be doing, right? That that would be their job, part of their job. But >> maybe next year though, >> I would I would be interested to know
like just how easy or hard it is to use it for something like this. >> Very easy to use. It's not easy to get the on the operating side to get the data at the correct baseline. Capitals. It's not
>> Yeah, capital's very easy. >> Very easy. >> But even even when it was done right, there'd be login problems and we didn't have the right views and it wasn't presenting properly and you know what I mean? Like there were all those issues
that again, you know, for at least a couple of years of my tenure, we were using it and it still wasn't useful. So >> I've been on for three years and all I've used is Excel spreadsheets. >> Yeah. >> Now maybe one of those years it spit out of Clear Gov. But
>> see, yeah. I mean, in the time I've been on the committee, we've never touched clear gov. It was like we got info was put into clear gov >> and printed out >> and then well and then then put into a spreadsheet for us to review. We never
access through clear gov directly. Yeah, I have accessed it and have access to the views. Again, I've shared my view of it, but you know, >> I don't know. I I think we should figure it out. The other thing that we should
figure out in a future year. I wanted to do it this year and it's been an issue is this particular committee. We've got three members that are elected member. Well, normally we'd have four members that are elected members of permanent
boards. Um, but one of those four is not on Microsoft, >> right? >> And we have a member at large that does not have a down Microsoft account either. So our
>> Rob has accessing it, >> right? So it just from a like a shared platform perspective we're not you know as a committee we we're hindered. Mhm. >> Yeah. I mean across the board licensing
is not there are three different levels of lensure that we have and >> uh if we upgrade everybody to the funny the basic license is the elevated license right? You think basic is the lower license but if we elevated everybody to the basic license there's
an associated cost. Okay. >> Yeah. I I I will say and I think I've made this known at one time or another though that we we do give a lot of time to this and having just basic it on a town server because if you're running
your own laptop with this stuff and using your own email addresses guess what the state can come in and take >> So nobody's using their own email addresses everybody has email addresses >> oh Rob you don't have an email you do >> I have I haven't found it yet.
>> Come see us during the day. But every everybody has their own email addresses. It's the lensure for for the software applications that becomes expensive and that's you know some sometimes folks have to download and open it in Google
Sheets or something that's free but that it it's not without a cost. >> Yeah. Again though like time is money. Everyone's time here is money, right? >> Right. But it's a values choice. So something will go away to fund that.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's math like it's we are we're facing a very difficult budget year. And so yes, in an ideal situation, everybody
would have the the best software that we could have. Thank you for your service. The reality is that that's difficult and we're already looking at some real difficult decisions. >> Y it it does put us in incredibly
difficult position though, right? for example, um because we are running and I'm an advocate of letting the schools run on Google given we did it on Microsoft that would cost us even more
>> right >> um but because we are running on two different systems there is literally no scenario that we could actually merge and have a >> fun consistently functioning shared file >> like >> with a school and yeah because we can't
we can't have a shareoint together >> having having >> you can have a shareepoint um that is hosted you can you can yes you can have >> let me rephrase that we have found ourselves unable
to have a shared a shareepoint that everyone can use together even though it is technically a thing in practice it has not And there's been a lot of well it can happen if we just X
>> and then we X and it's oh well then we also need Y and then we need and then it's the end of the budget season. It it's something that you know maybe we could do as an initiative for a following year or something. The issue is is that he's absolutely right. Theoretically it's possible but it's not
something that you can implement through a series of support calls with Souzer rather than somebody actually sitting down and saying this is it. set up for you. Go do it. And and that's the problem that we've had. >> It we can talk about having a SharePoint
for sure. I think we've done it recently for conservation commission in that way that >> set it up. >> Good. All right. Well, that would be a step in the right direction. >> You see us about your email. >> I will. >> All right. I lost my uh So, um should we
set a time and date specific for January or would you feel more comfortable communicating saying we should you know you're going to have a better idea maybe the first or second week of January and we can shoot for a out week or what do you think? >> So, what I have been told so far is that
by January 31st they're they're planning to close. That means to me that we should have a ballpark number roughly the week before. So, uh, you could plus or minus of $100,000, but we'll we
should know the range of free cash. Um, you could certainly set for the third week in January. Um, if you wanted to check in in advance of that before >> actually scheduling and we we have weekly calls with the consultants. So,
>> Okay. >> And Karen Brochio is coming back tomorrow to take over some of the items. >> Excellent. So, she will be closing out some things hopefully a little faster. >> Great. >> Okay. So, um I'm going to be out of town, as it turns out, the last two
weeks of January, but I will be available remotely. Um so, my preference would be like the week of the 19th over the week of the 26th. >> Um >> I won't be here that week.
>> Me neither. >> Which week? >> Um that third week. >> The 19th. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to be out I think like the 15th to the 26th or something like that. >> Oh, yeah. Similar. All right. So, should we shoot for the 28th? >> Can I ask >> that works for me?
>> Did you finalize the schedule that we talked about a few weeks ago? >> There are balls that are dropping. This is the real I mean to this is the reality of working in the town of Lunenburgg right now. be my entire day yesterday was spent on finance related
issues that normally would not be on my plate. >> This is this is not going to be there will be broken deadlines. There will be things that do not get done. This is the reality. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So 28 tenatively. >> Sure. >> Is that a Wednesday? >> It is.
>> Yep. >> Okay. >> We will schedule that and check your email >> and get my email. Yeah, better. Let me know though because I'm still going to use your other one that's taking. >> Sure, I'll let you know.
>> All right. Um, we don't have any minutes to discuss or approve. Is there any public comment? >> Yeah, Mr. Martin. >> Yep. >> All right. >> Oh, there he is. Just to say I had some
technical difficulties earlier which I like. So I'm not going to say much if anything today. >> All right. Well, welcome. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you for the opportunity. >> Glad to have you. >> All right. Hearing no other public comment. Is there a motion to adjurnn?
>> So moved. Second. >> Uh all in favor? I I for myself. We are adjourned. It is 8:03 p.m. Thank you and good night.