to the open meeting law. Please be advised that this meeting is being broadcast at a later date over the Lunberg public access channel. Uh there is a zoom link so if you want to join you can do that and the link is in the agenda uh along with the meeting ID. Uh the meeting will be broadcast at a later
date through the local cable access channel and on the public access Facebook page uh with a link in the agenda to the public access Facebook page. and will be found on the Lunberg public access YouTube channel within 24 hours of the meeting. The agenda lists all of the topics which may be discussed
at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law. So the first thing we do is pledge
of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> All right. So, uh, the next thing we do is we go into executive session. Be right back. That'll be a quick one. Thanks, sir. >> All right, we are out of executive session. So, the next thing we have is uh public comment. Is there anybody here
from the public that would like to make a comment? Anybody online? Anybody? Anybody? All right. Um the next thing is chair's report. Uh the only thing I have to report is number one, uh
Laura is not here tonight and she's communicated with us. We still have an absence. Um my understanding from the town manager is that the email indicating that he was no longer uh interested is sufficient. So now the position is technically completely open.
Anybody who would like to apply could apply. You would be appointed until May and then you could decide if you want to run or not. We really need other people. This is a lot of work and um one of us understands education speak but the rest
of us don't. And so like the more the more people that share the heavy lift the better. >> Um, is your mic on? I just got a text that people can't hear us. >> Oh, no. My mic was not on the whole time. >> This is the first time I've ever been accused of being too quiet. >> I know, right? >> Yeah. Uh, okay. Uh, that's it.
>> Can they hear us now? Do you Do you know Can you see on Zoom? >> All right. >> Okay. I'll let you know if >> uh we do not have a student representative. So, we're going to go to uh review and approve minutes. Do we I don't think we have any minute. Do we have minutes?
>> I didn't I didn't see any. Okay. Nope. I didn't see any. >> Then we're going to review and approve light item uh transfers, warrants, and donations. The warrants were in the uh materials. It's 133,29869. Um, this covers the time period from the
6th of January to the 14th of January. Is there anything else? >> Yes, we have Yes, we have two. >> Thanks, Loose. We have two donations today from the box
tops for education. Um, one in the amount of $55.30 for Turkey Hill Elementary and the other is for $3660
to Lunberg Middle School from the Box Tops for Education um team. And we do have one line item transfer that Chris will come up and talk us through. So, we have one line item transfer
tonight. So, we're going to be moving $2,500 from special ed contracted evaluations to special ed contracted related services. And this is to cover the increasing ASL costs for Bayate interpreters.
>> American Sign Language. >> American Sign Language. Does anybody have any questions about the line item transfer? >> Nope. >> All right. If there are no questions about the line item transfer, I would look for a motion on the donations and the line item transfer.
>> I make a motion to accept the donations and approve the line item transfer. >> Second. >> All right. Uh, looks like we have an aisle vote in favor. >> All in favor? >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. All right. And we accept the donations with gratitude.
>> Yes. Thank you. >> All right. >> It's working now. >> Excellent. Uh the next thing that I have on the agenda is superintendent's report. >> My report is very brief though. I do want to thank the school committee and the school community for being so
helpful um as I roll around the district or roll around my office. Um, but we had a meeting with the LEAF group, which is the Lunberg Educational Foundation that
is newly established and they are going to be opening um their grant cycle this year later in the spring um for fall donations. They are really looking for innovative teaching practices that
teachers want to try out in the classroom. Um, and that is very exciting and they um are still looking for donors and support. So feel free to look them
up. I believe their website is leaf.org. And that is my report. I'm trying to keep it brief because we have such an extensive agenda tonight. >> All right. Uh the next thing on the agenda is new business and the first
thing under new business is grant amend hold on is grant amendment proposal. >> I'm going to ask Dr. Saki to come up and discuss um this proposal with you.
>> Hi friends. >> Hello ma'am. >> Thanks for having me. So essentially we have this um we have the student opportunity grant and because we had an unexpected resignation we would like to reallocate these funds. This is a
proposal to utilize the funds in a way that is still maintaining fidelity to the grant intended purpose. Um but we want to do something a little bit different. So, initially we were using the funds to bring somebody in and
essentially work as a literacy coach and um we know that that role is not going to continue. So rather than hiring somebody new, training them and having them um join our schools, what we'd like to do is really focus on building the
capacity of the people that we have within our buildings right now. Um and we would do that by having them um help with some of the some of the rules um that we have in our school. So like um
uh for example helping to plan and facilitate professional learning communities focused on evidence literacy evidence-based literacy practices and math practices. Um also helping with uh designing lesson plans that that teachers will use with small groupoup
instruction. All of those things would happen outside of the normal school hours. So that's why there is a stipent involved. Um, additionally, I was looking for um two positions to do some work over the summer. We'd like to offer some professional development. We'd also
like to do again more of that planning and really digging into data to help build the capacity of our teachers. Um, and then additionally looking for some instructional supplies. So, I know that last meeting I talked about the need for more decodable readers and that's one of
the things that you see here. I also um I also put in some uh a request for some resources that we could use during our intervention blocks um so that we can really target instruction for especially our youngest learners. I spoke with both
teachers and also with our math coach Amy Resnik and it was discussed that um building our supply of queas in our rods would be really helpful to our teachers when it comes to math and also having some place value mats. So, those are um
those are small things, but they add up to a lot of money. And you can see that uh oh, maybe you can't see, but the bulk of that $25,000 that I'd like to use for supplies would really be for these decodable readers. And again, the decodable readers would be utilized when
students learn specific skills. That way, they can practice the application of those skills with the text that match the skills that they just learned. And also, I'd love to be able to have some really robust book studies again to build the internal capacity. And so, I
do have a couple of titles that I asked for. And um with the funds that are left over, I would like to have some contracted professional development. Right now, we have somebody that we're using to help us with our um the
conceptual aspect of mathematics, and that's wonderful. I'd love to continue that work, but then also perhaps um continue working with our early literacy teachers to build those early literacy schools at the preschool level and then um at our elementary schools as well.
>> Can I ask you a question? >> More batteries. >> I just put in fresh batteries. Yes. >> Uh, does the proposed change still fit within the grant application language? So, so the next step would certainly be
for us to I would have to change I don't mean change the language like the content here would would be the same but I would have to make sure that I show the alignment with what is allowable for the grant and then once I write that up then we would submit it to DESIE but
actually what we're asking for would not change. I would just have to show alignment. >> Okay. And you you don't think that's an issue? That'll be easy. >> I don't anticipate that being an issue. >> Okay. And I I figured out what prisoner rods are. >> Right. Actually, you look it up. >> Yes, I googled it.
>> I googled like 17 things of >> Okay. Does anybody have any other questions? >> No. Can you just clarify? So, I know we're not hiring anyone else, but it says that we're going to be providing a stipen to a highly skilled interventionist. So, that's someone that's already within our school community. So, they'll be doing their
interventionist job and then on top of that doing this training. >> Yeah. >> Outside of school hours. >> Yeah. So, well, and a lot of it would be preparation outside of school hours and then um maybe coming in like before school. So, PLC's happen before school and that might not be part of that
person's contracted time andor during a school or after school, but we would obviously want to make sure that whoever does this work is a the most skilled, right? And then b um is willing to do this. We would >> I was just going to say so we don't have
anyone already like chosen. We don't know that this would actually be something someone would want to do yet. >> I definitely I know that there are people who would be interested for sure, but I I would want to make it a like a fair process because there might be other people who would be interested in
sort of applying. >> Just asking a lot. >> Yeah, >> I get it. Right. But it it would be it would be something that people would have to go for. Yeah. Right. And and what I would say too is a lot of times those people that would be the
best candidates are kind of like already doing the work. Do you know what I mean? And this would be a way to acknowledge all that they do and sort of validate their extra work and hopefully compensate them in some way. >> I just want to say I'm very grateful that you were being mindful of this
money. One of the things that resulted in the surplus was we were not mindful of grant funds. And so reallocating this money shows that we are being good stewards of the money we get. And I think that the uses that you've proposed in this document are a creative way to
spend the money. And it's also something you educated us last time about needing. So it just happened that >> you had said we need this stuff and then the money became available. So >> yes, >> good job. >> Thanks. >> Yeah, seems good. >> All right. Any more questions? >> Is this an action item?
>> Yes, you need to approve. >> I'm looking for a motion to approve the proposed uh changes for the grant money. >> I'll make a motion to approve the request for the grant. >> I'll second. >> All right. All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. >> Going to be the second.
>> Okay. You you guys sometimes be the the lead. I just want to be the second. The next thing on the agenda item is a preschool tuition increase. >> I'll ask Mrs. Squire to come up to the podium.
>> Principal Squire, before you start, are you still teaching kindergarten and being principal? No, I do have a different responsibility, but it's not the kindergarten teacher. We have successfully hired a kindergarten teacher. >> Excellent. >> Good. >> Miss Dumont, who used to be at Turkey
Hill, has come back to us as our kindergarten teacher. >> So, we are very grateful for that. >> That's amazing. Little different fifth grade kindergarten. >> Third to kindergarten. >> Third, sorry. Third to kindergarten, but still. Yeah. >> All right. So, I have preschool tuition.
Um there is a little bit of an error in the memo that was sent to you and I can explain that. So we have proposed two-day, 3-day, 4 day and 5day. So currently the structure of our program
for preschool is on Monday. It's a half day morning there is no preschool. Afternoon currently it's just substantially separate. There are no model students in that. And then the rest of our time is either a two-day or a 4-day program.
What we would like to do is move our afternoon to be all-incclusive for our preschool and open up some more slots. So what we would like to propose is that our morning sessions will stay the same. We will still have four days in
the morning. We will have Tuesday, Thursday, Wednesday, Friday. So you could have options of the choices. What we would like to change is instead of doing Wednesday, Friday, Tuesday, Thursday, we would like to change our
afternoon to be a fiveday. So we could that the rates of tuition would change. That's why you have five day on there. >> As well as three and two. So Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Tuesday, Thursday. >> Can you say that one more time? >> Yeah.
>> Why are there so many options? So because the way preschool works to have a variety of options. >> Okay. >> Um what we're finding is parents would like five days. >> Yeah. >> However, >> we can't offer five days. We can in the morning in the afternoon if our Monday
program becomes inclusive. >> Yeah. >> And so I've been working with our preschool team. We would like to offer five half It's a half day program, but five half days, but we would need school committee approval. So, we're trying to get it in so we don't miss the window because we have preschool registration
coming up. >> So, it would be there would be three menu options. There would be two-day, 4 day, and 5day. >> And we currently do not have fiveday. >> We currently do not have 5day. >> So, we would be adding fiveday and the tuition increase would be
>> the tuition increase would be 4%. So, every year our tuition increase is 4%. We break it down. So, what we did is we went and looked at our tuition. What is our two-day, what would it be for three day, what would it be for four days? And what would it be for five days? And that's what I we have proposed. And we
bill parents quarterly. So that's why you see the per year, per quarter. >> Okay. All right. >> Uh does anybody have any questions? >> Yeah, I mean I think five No, no questions. I think five day is great. I mean the more days you can offer the more likely it is I think parents will
want to because Right. You've had issues billing. >> We had issues. So last year we only had 27 tuition students. This year we have 32. Yeah. >> Um >> we say we do a lottery but we have not had to do a lottery because we don't we have more slots to fill than we have
students. >> Um one of the things with preschool because rolling admissions, if a student is two and a half and turns three in and they're on an IEP, they have to come in. So we have to watch DESIE. We have to watch our ratios of students on IEPs and
students that are not on IEPs. And you can't have an overbalance because if you don't have a 50/50, your ratios then becomes substantially separate and it's a whole different thing that we have to do. Yes. It's a whole different set of rules. So, we're trying to give a lot of options. We were able to get more students in. We're
hoping by doing the fiveday and the 3-day we're going to get more fill more of our open slots. >> Excellent. All right. >> That's great. >> Any questions? No. >> All right. This is also an action item.
So, I'd look for a motion. >> I have a motion to approve the preschool tuition schedule and addition of 5 days. >> Second. >> All right. All in favor? >> I >> I All right. Thank you. We're
>> booking. Let's keep going. meeting. >> Here we go. >> All right. >> The next item is for discussion and this is reading data. >> Yes, you're getting your first PowerPoint. >> I mean, Tony,
>> we got a long time. It's January. really now getting better. >> And I think it's only six slides. So that's >> excellent. >> Well, maybe it's more than six, but it it's it's 10. >> It's 10, >> but you got data. So like >> 10 is 10 isn't bad. >> It's not 192 with a hyperlink to another
640. So we're good. >> I think that we might Oh, I turn this on. >> I'm feeling like it's not >> It was on when we came in. It might have time kids. They can always conserve energy here. >> Very good.
>> I mean, that's just the power. I don't >> I think that's right. >> I think that's right. >> Just press the button. >> See, we conserve energy. This is good. >> We can call random high school student and then it would work. >> It's like me. >> People are like, you have problems like
did you turn it off and turn it back on? >> I'm trouble shooting my hands. >> Oh, there we go. >> Oh, there you go. It just took a minute. >> Yeah. Um, >> do you want to switch the lights off? >> Sure. >> Okay. Sorry. Thank you.
>> You want me to shut these off so people can see? >> Sure. >> Is it too dark? >> It's very dark. >> That's good. >> That's great. >> Okay, that's good. What's happening today? >> The moon. >> You got the hi again. So, I'm over here
and I also have Beth Robinson with me. And Beth is an intervention teacher at the PI primary elementary school. That's your title, right Beth? >> Yes. MTSS specialist and instructional specialist for the primary school.
>> Sorry, I know I got that wrong. Okay. So, this presentation shares the beginning of year data and the middle the beginning of year and middle of year literacy and math screening data. The beginning of the year data shows where students were at the start of the year
and the middle of the year data shows where students are performing at this midpoint of the year. All of the values that you're going to see are shown as percentages. They're not individual students. So, I just want to make sure everybody understands that. And the percentages that you will see represent
the composite scores which summarize multiple skills that indicate an overall risk factor. Okay. A couple of important points. Um the purpose of this presentation is to explain where the students are right now to identify areas
of risk and also strength and to guide instruction and intervention. The purpose of this presentation and the purpose of the dibbles assessment is not to measure growth or compare students over time. Okay? So I just want to make sure that this is not the same as when
we're looking at the MCCAST data. This is really like a diagnostic assessment. Where are we? How does it inform instruction? And then where are the areas of risk and the areas of strength? Okay. >> So, can I ask a question because I looked at it a little bit before. So, when we're looking at beginning of the
year data versus midyear data, what you've just said makes sense to me. We're not tracking a student across both. >> Absolutely. But when we're looking at the colors, right, are we the midyear data comparing to a cohort of other children that are in midyear?
>> Well, so we look at So >> does that question make sense? >> So we're not comparing the students. So what I would say is this. Overall, we're looking to see if how many students are at risk or what percentage of students are at high risk, moderate risk, and what students are obviously like less at
risk and really kind of not at all at risk. Yeah. So there's that, but then we also look at the individual student data to see for those that are that were identified as at risk at the beginning of the year, is what we're doing to intervene bringing them out of that risk category.
>> Yeah. Does that show growth a bit? >> It's nationally normed. >> Yeah. So is it I guess that's the thing. And are we n just because it came up at tri last week, right? Was our third grade data and I know it was MCCAST data. So it's different, >> but I just want to be clear in my mind that, you know, our third grade data la
last year on MCCAST, we were measuring at the end of the year, right, after the children already had third grade. >> So I was just like, is >> the is the norming, is that the right word? >> Right. >> To midyear other students who are
midyear. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Yep. If I'm understanding you correctly, >> do you do you think? Okay. >> You're right. >> Okay. Excellent. And dibbles is an acronym. >> Yes, it is. >> It stands for >> um >> I cheated. >> What is it still for?
>> Dynamic indicators. >> Indicator. >> Go ahead. >> Oh, >> now we can stop. Stop. >> Okay. So, dynamic indicators. >> We forget. >> Oh, >> we'll get back to you on that. >> Basic early literacy skills.
>> Early literacy is basically basic basic. There we go. >> I think they threw in the B. was a word perhaps. >> So, Dibble is an approved SE early literacy screener. Okay. And it's part it's part of what we use as our districtwide literacy assessment system.
Beth is going to talk about how we use Dibble Dibbles for K2. In in the primary school, we use Dibbles as a universal screener and progress monitoring tool to assess foundational reading skills such as phonic awareness,
phonics, accuracy, and fluency. And this allows us to identify students who may need additional support early when intervention is most effective. And so when I think about Dibble's data in general, I often suggest that people
consider it as a photo mosaic where you have thousands of small individual snapshots of information and then as you kind of stand back a little bit, you can actually see see an image emerge as to
what proficiency and growth within our literacy looks like for all grade levels and we can look at students, we can look at classes, grades, the whole school, the whole entire district. And it really
gives us quite a nice um a nice look at at where we're at. It's almost like a GPS. We can tell where we're at and it can help us guide where we want to go. Um so, as Dr. where it's not said we are
going to be looking at composite scores and composite scores are um made up of all the different subtests that each student um takes. There's usually around four subtests. Some grades have less,
some grades have more. And um those subtests are weighted. They are weighted in terms of the importance uh of that skill for reading success. And so that as we look at um as we look
at the data, we're looking at composite scores. And so that's multiple scores per student multiplied by all of the students within our grade levels. >> So in grants 35, we're using Dibble
strategically to do really two things. to monitor oral reading fluency and accuracy and then also to help us identify students who need additional foundational reading instruction. And then as it says here, across all grade levels, Dibbles is reviewed alongside
other classroom assessments. That's really important. It's never just used in isolation. So, um, this is really important. So, I know last time we talked a little bit about effect size. So, just a quick re recap. So effect size doesn't just tell
us if something is working. It tells us if how much an intervention is working. So we talked last time that you know we're looking for the hinge point of 04 and above. We're looking to make sure that what we do to intervene or assessments that we use. We want to make sure that they have the maximum desired
effect. And you'll see here um well Beth is going to talk a little bit about this, but you'll see here that um by in kindergarten by end of year kindergarten, we're really looking at students ability um to show us nonsense word fluency and also we're looking at
their composite level score. And then in grades one plus, we're looking at oral reading fluency. But go ahead, Beth. >> Go ahead. You want to you have a question, Tony? >> Beth, what is nonsense word fluency? >> She's gonna tell you. Oh, sorry. >> I'm going to tell you that right now. Go ahead.
>> So, nonsense word fluency is a fluency assessment, meaning that it is timed. So, it is a 60-second or one minute assessment where students are asked to read what are known as nonsense words or
pseudo words. So um for example, piff or um >> sig >> sig orb. They're in many cases syllables from longer words. But >> but the reason we would be asking
students to use pseudo words rather than real words is some students have a very good memory for the words that they've seen in books. and we can't tell whether they've memorized a word or whether they know how to sound it out. And so by
using a pseudo word, we can actually determine exactly what sounds a student can accurately say. And so in this slide, what what this shows is research has shown that the most predicted data
point for the end of kindergarten is part of the nonsense word fluency test, which is CLS or correct letter sounds. So when students are looking at these pseudo words, um, often times younger
students in kindergarten, they will sound them out P and then we also check and score whether or not they can blend those sounds piff into a nonsense word. And so the the
sounding out part is actually the most predictive element for kindergarten students at the end of kindergarten. If they are able to sound out a word, even if they can't blend it yet, that is the most predictive piece of information we
have about their future success as readers. And so what we're doing is taking a very close look at that and letting that information guide our practices and it helps us to really get a good view of
what our students are able to do. >> And that's part of the Dibbles. >> That is part of Dibbles. Every student who takes Dibbles in kindergarten and first grade does the nonsense word fluency test. We also have the nonsense
word fluency test available in second and third grade as well if um if the algorithm of how a student has performed on certain subtests require it. >> And so but every single kindergartener is is taking that.
>> So I've been administering dibbles for the last couple of weeks in grades three through five. And so for the third graders who um with their oral reading fluency assessment don't necessarily um score very well though then we then with
those students then we have these extra subtests to kind of dig down and find out where the breakdown is. >> And nonsense word fluency is is one of the assessments that we administer. >> Absolutely. It's it's one of the most telling um telling assessments that we
do. Um the oral reading fluency, the second part of this slide here is the most predictive data that we have for grades one and above. And oral reading fluency, OF measures how accurately and
automatically students read. And there are often there are two separate scores for that as well, just as for nonsense word fluency. But the scores are for how many words per minute a student can
read. That's the timed fluency piece. And also the accuracy. So they're also given a percentage of accuracy for that particular assessment. So, what we're looking at here um is
composite score data for each grade level. At the top, the top section where it says KBO Y, 1 BOI, and 2 BOY. That is kindergarten beginning of year, first
grade beginning of year, and second grade beginning of year. The numbers are percents. A percentage of our student body at that grade level has scored in these various um categories.
Above is above the the benchmark for that particular testing period. It's called TOI time of year. And um so students are basically measured against a benchmark that gets harder. The
complexity of the tests all the subtests are the same throughout the entire school year for students. It is the benchmark that goes up. They are expected to be able to do more at each testing period. So for example, if
you're looking at kindergarten beginning of year, 21% of our kindergarteners were above benchmark, 18 were at benchmark, 22 were below, and
39 were well below. Um what is very important to note is that again those colors are indicative of levels of risk. So students who score above the benchmark in the blue, they are they
have a negligible risk for either having or developing reading challenges over time. Those students that are at benchmark, pretty much right where we expect them to be, they have a very low level of risk for having or developing
reading challenges over time. The students in the yellow and the red, however, they have a higher level of risk. Yellow is a moderate level of risk for either currently experiencing
reading challenges or potentially um developing reading challenges over time. And the students that are in red are at a high risk for having or developing reading challenges. So when looking at this data, it's very
common for people to kind of let their eye be drawn to the line between the yellow and green, knowing that the students in this case to the left of that line, all of those students are have a very
low to minimal uh level of risk. Whereas the students in yellow and red, those are the students that we really want to um watch over very carefully and monitor their growth through progress monitoring. >> Can can I ask is this one of the data
points we use when we're talking about who is receiving MTSS services? Is that >> Yes, absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And is are we as a school district able to um provide MTSS services for all the kids on the right? No,
>> we're mostly serving the kids in the red. >> Correct. >> Right. >> That kids are in the yellow, we don't have the resources for. >> That's accurate. >> Okay. >> I know there are a lot of numbers up here. Um I just want to throw out a a
few things that I've noticed that, you know, might put a little bit of this in perspective. Um, in kindergarten at the beginning of the year we had 39% of our students at or above benchmarks. So that's the blue and the green. And at
the middle of the year it was 55%. >> So that is that that's good. >> That's a very good thing to say. >> Why are they coming in so far below? Like obviously it has nothing to do with us because they're not in school yet. But
>> is this consistent with trends in Massachusetts national average over time? >> It is very consistent with my own personal experience. I have been in seven school districts in Massachusetts and I have found that over the past
decade in particular, every year students are coming in quite low. However, in many cases, it has to do with a lack of exposure. >> And so once we bring them, you know, into our kindergarten classes, we find
that, you know, oftentimes students make very nice progress. And that's what we're seeing here. >> We don't have we don't have university. >> Yeah. That number almost doubled. >> Yes. Right. >> And so I guess like one of the things that came up at the tri board meeting
and this is something that we're trying to wrap our head around is like how can we h what can we do that's cost effective that would help that number the KOI number be better and it's like
it's outside of our control. But like >> often times it is it's outside of our range unless um we are in a school district or in a place that has community programming and preschool for
all. >> Well, they will also be doing an end of year dibbles, right? Oh, yes. >> So, it's already >> changing. So, by the end of the year, it could change more. I also have a question. Are is every single student tested? So
>> including students on IEPs or already with disabilities. >> So almost every single student is tested. If we have a student that is working on that is non-verbal and has very significant challenges, this might not be an appropriate assessment for them, right? Um so with with those
exceptions yeah >> to put that in perspective currently with this data that is less than 10 children >> less intentional >> in the district >> in the in the primary school >> in the primary school >> in the primary school um we do all that
we can to use this universal screener for all students because we do not want to not keep an eye on students on IEPs or multilingual learners, we we want to make sure we see everyone. And really,
when Dibbbles shows that a student has fallen into a red or a yellow category, it it's like a flag is being waved. Take a look at the student and pay attention to their needs so that we can help them um really progress in the best way
possible. But I I will emphasize that realistically having more highly skilled intervention teachers would certainly be beneficial >> to our schools. >> Absolutely. In first grade the the numbers are not drastically different
from the beginning of year to middle. But what I would like to say is that I have seen some very nice gains in high frequency word reading which is one of the subtasks and overall letter knowledge and just alphabetic principle the ability to
uh really work within literacy skills. So I'm seeing more accuracy even though um in this particular instance the numbers haven't moved all that much currently but again when we see the end of year um dibbled scores I I would
expect to see uh a greater change there. So according to this 80 if I'm doing the math 86% of students from K to 2 are well below
>> it's only 100 across. So you'd want to average those three. Okay. And so that the a that average number the all those students are getting intervention at this current time. >> So not all of the numbers >> in the red. I mean >> in the red. Yes. Not the yellow.
>> Not all. >> Not all of the students. >> Not all. And some of the students in red are on IEPs as well. >> That's why I asked. >> So there's multiple services involved, but even at that, there are some students in red that have not received services doing for those students.
>> Well, currently, yeah, I mean, so what we're really trying to do is again build the capacity of the classroom teacher, but there's obviously only so much that the classroom teacher can do. So all students receive tier one instruction, core instruction, right? And I would say that much if not most of the tier 2
intervention is is um done by the classroom teacher, but that really intensive support is typically done outside of the classroom, >> right? >> So that is a problem. That is a challenge for sure. >> Yeah. >> So we want to be transparent about that.
Mhm. >> And at second grade, um the blue category for second grade, um students went from 24% above uh benchmark at the beginning of the year to 27, which is really lovely.
What that really shows for our school is that although we are keeping an eye very closely on the students who are below, we also want all of our students to be growing at a wonderful rate. And when we see increases in the blue in that above
category, that is what that shows. And for second grade in particular, it's some really nice gains in oral reading fluency accuracy, which is really tipping the balance there. And I'm very excited to see that. That is wonderful
for our school. So what we do is take this data and figure out how to move forward. We want to you know make data based decisions so that we can make sure that we are meeting the needs of our students. And
so the teacher feedback that we've received regarding our professional learning communities indicates that they would like to use that time for planning and really digging into the data so that they understand how best to use the data
to um plan instruction in the classroom. And so we're excited about using that time and really developing plans for that. And our areas of focus are listed there on the slide. You'll notice that we have phenemic awareness. That's the
ability for students to play with sounds and really manipulate sounds. The ability to blend sounds together. For example, c- cat. Blending those sounds together or hearing a word like cat and being able
to segment and isolate those sounds to c and manipulating sounds. Changing cat to hat, bat, sat. Really helping our students to understand in an auditory
way what it is that's happening. And then we can add in the letters which then makes it phonics and work a lot on orthographic mapping which you'll see smack dab in the middle of that um that chart. Athographic mapping is allowing
students to see how the letters and sounds correspond and make sure that they have a good understanding of the building of letter uh the building of words through those letter sounds. And
so it helps with both their reading and their writing. And so there's there's lots of different things on there, but that is very much how we're going to maintain our focus on building on the skills that our students have and really
promoting um proficiency and growth. >> Can I go back a little bit just because I know we changed curriculum right at some point. So we were using part of this is for the public and for you to to make sure I have it right. Right. is that when my fifth grader was in
kindergarten, first grade, my understanding is we were using a reading program that was not based on the science of reading and now this new program is. Do you expect some of so our teachers who are wonderful, right? And and do an amazing job, you know, have
learn are learning a new program. >> Absolutely. Um, you know, do you think some of do you think >> when teachers become more proficient? >> Yeah, I'm trying to think the right way. Do you think that that may help uh students? I mean, they've had it for a
few years now, right? I think I think they changed in second grade. Four. It's been four years. Oh, okay. >> Um, >> so I guess it has been a while. they are using a new version that does set up the um foundational skill components a little differently. Yeah.
>> So it it is sometimes a matter of becoming uh more comfortable and more proficient with a program and I do think that that happens over time. I do find that it takes several years. Yeah. >> Um but we are using now the curriculum that is of the the highest standard that
the state you know because the state has had a lot of discussion about this. Um and right what we are using is what >> it is aligned curriculum. >> Aligned curriculum. I want to make sure the right terminology. So that's good. >> Yes. Okay. >> I know we talked about a little bit last week >> and kind of like what Beth is talking
about. So you know there's been a lot of professional development on like the theory, the research things we can do, but teachers really want to say, "Okay, I want to do that, but I want to do that with this list of kids. How do I plan to do it? And what does it look like when I implement in my classroom?" And of course they're they're doing that now,
but they really want to be able to utilize our time together to plan for that so that they can make the most of all their instructional minutes. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> So now we're going to focus at uh our attention here at Turkey Hill. And so
what this show slide shows is of course the BOI composite scores for grades three through five and then the MOI middle of the year composite scores for grades three through five. And again, I want to focus on the percentages in those risk categories. As Beth talked
about, we're really um making sure that we focus on the students that are in red. Those are at the highest risk. And then the students or the percentage of students that are in that yellow category, those students are at moderate risk of either having or developing reading difficulties. It doesn't mean
that we forget about the students in blue and green, right? We want to make sure that we continue to challenge them and keep them on that trajectory because as she stated earlier, the um expectation for the benchmark gets increasingly more demanding as we go
through the school year. So, just a couple of highlights. When we're looking at the grade three data, um we can see that fewer students appear in the highest highest risk category. That's certainly positive. Um we can all and and that what that indicates is that we
have strengthening fluency as our text complexity increases and that is one of the things that happens with our program right like we want to expose our kids to complex text and really rich text but as they go on like through their third grade year, their fourth grade year, the
fifth grade year, the text becomes increasingly more complex. So they have to apply these skills that they learned with more difficult things that they read. So um that is definitely a bright spot that we see our highest risk category going down. And then in grade
four um what we see is that our students are the the lower risk uh I'm sorry the there's a group of students that show some sort of like they're stable maintain some stability there. Um, and uh, what what that's
showing us is that we are improving our automaticity with grade level text. One thing that I noticed when I was testing the kids this weekend last is that we have a lot of kids who do have accuracy in their reading, but they're very slow readers. And we don't want kids to be
speed readers. That's not what we're looking for. But we also want kids to have like a a pretty reasonable pace when they're getting through the text. But one thing I do notice is that the kids who are definitely reading at home, I ask them, "Are you reading with your parents? Are you reading to your dog? Are reading to a stuffed animal?" It's
very apparent because not only do those kids have accuracy and um and um uh like a good rate with their reading, but they also have some procity, some expression when they're reading. So like when an exclamation point is coming up, you can hear them get excited, and it's a little
bit more conversational. So, just like a shameless plug, please practice reading with your kids at home. Um, and then also with grade five, um, with grade five, um, well, we have some work to do. We have
some work to do with grade five, as you can tell. But, um, but what I did notice again when I was testing the kids is that it seemed when it came to the accuracy piece, grade five actually performed the best. And that's the hard part about this assessment is because
you can sit there and listen to kids read and and they can have no errors, but if their rate is really if their read is really slow, then it flags them and then we have to go on to these other subtests. And the subtests, as as Beth said, are also timed. So we might have
kids that are reading. So what they have to do is show accuracy reading lists of words and they're a very abundant list of words. And we might see kids reading accurately, but they're just reading slower. So it it doesn't mean that they're not proficient readers. It means
that their rate is not there yet. So that keep practicing. That's kind of >> Yeah. And I just want to note for the public again since I have a fifth grader and so does Tony. This is the grade that missed kindergarten because of CO, right? This is the grade that had kindergarten on Zoom,
>> right? Partially on Zoom. out >> made them very good at Zoom but not so great at this. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um what I the the the other high the other bright spot right here is I was looking at my notes and not actually at the at the chart. I'm
sorry about that. Is um the above students if we're looking at the percentage of above students that that >> that has gone up a lot. >> That's staggering. Right. >> Yeah. I mean that is >> almost fivefold. >> Exactly. >> For fourth grade and fifth grade. >> Right. for fourth grade and for fifth grade. So that's that's the thing. It's
like okay the the well below category we haven't really made a ton of movement but if you look at those students that are above not only not only are the students who hit the benchmark maintaining but then some of those kids have even gone above and beyond and that has definitely been apparent when I have been teaching when I have um been
testing the students for sure. >> And so at Turkey Hill are we so I know there's also an MTSS program at at Turkey Hill. Would it be safe to summarize that the folks who are in the red are most likely getting MTSS? No, they are not.
>> We only Can I borrow your mic? >> Yeah, sure. >> We only have a 0.5 interventionist at Turkey. >> At Turkey Hill. >> Yes. So, so there's a lot of kids who are in this red who are not getting pullout services. >> Some may be getting IEP.
>> They might be getting IEP services. >> And this is not a criticism of the school department at all. I just I just think it's very important for us to know what what our kids are able to access. >> Absolutely. And and there definitely is a difference between a special educator and also a a um a like a literacy
specialist who's providing the intervention. Yeah. Because special educators are expected to be experts in all the things. Yeah. And if we have somebody who's working as an interventionist specifically targeting literacy, they might have they might have some more knowledge than than
somebody who's more of a generalist, if that makes sense. >> Yep. >> Right. >> Can I can I ask a question about the the above numbers for fourth and fifth grade? >> Sure. >> Those are really remarkable, especially because I've seen this or some variation
of this chart >> for five years. I don't think I've ever seen numbers jump like that in the above category. Do we have any idea why? I mean like what what unique things are happening that make those number I mean
the you know like the above in my experience and you guys know better than I do but the above numbers stay pretty constant right >> so like why and obviously it's a good thing but one of them more than doubled and the other more than quintupled >> right so
>> so or quadrupled so why why did that happen >> I will say that just based on my observations I've noticed a lot of writing at Churkey And I I really think well I don't think I know um that writing about text helps
deepen reading comprehension. It helps students practice their so so decoding is like reading the word like breaking or breaking apart the sounds so that you can put them together and read a word. But when they're encoding they're actually writing they're taking they're taking the sounds and then they're
writing their words. And I see that happening quite a bit. Um, I also think that there is a lot of um there's a lot of reading that's going on in the classroom and it's not just the teacher who is doing the reading, the kids are doing the reading. I think that helps a
lot as well. But the reading and writing piece is really important. A lot of times what I've seen is like when we when schools have adopted align curricula, they have the foundational piece down. They are working on reading text, but there's not a lot of writing
going on. And I I see the opposite or I I see an equal amount of writing at Turkey Hill, which I think is really beneficial. That's what I would guess anyway. >> And like Carol told me about like the trend nationwide is for there to be a
dip in test scores in fourth grade and that like that I don't really know why. It's like pretty constant. It's been there for, you know, decades. And so to see the 8 to 35 in fourth grade is remarkable. >> Yeah,
>> it's amazing. >> Kudos. >> Good job. >> Well, shout out to Turkey Hill teachers for amazing. >> Yes. >> All right. So, um, essentially based on the data, these are the things that we're going to be working on. I mean,
that this is pulled right from the data. These are our areas of focus. And you see the skills get a little bit well, they get a lot more sophisticated when you um when you go up in scores. I mean, when you go up in grade levels. And I I just want to note that I didn't have all of the fifth grade data until probably
3:00 today. So, I don't I didn't write focus areas for grade five. And sorry, we were scrambling. And I also just want to say thank you to the teachers who were so flexible and let Beth and me go and Amy Sabio and Amy Resnik go into their classrooms and the other folks who
are testing to pull their kids out of every single content area. Thank you cuz it's it's a lot. >> I really appreciate that you have this data put together for us. I thank you. I mean this is this is the kind of thing we need to see and talk about. So,
>> so I think um I think we might have Amy Resnneck on Zoom. Anybody see Amy? >> Yes, you do. >> Great. Amy, I forgot to text you. Sorry about that. >> Yes, you did. But that's okay. I'll forgive you. >> Sorry. I said I would text her if we get
close. Um so, here we go. So, um we're just going to talk about the universal screener for NeverSense. So, we're moving on to the map portion of this of this presentation. And just like the dibbles, the USNS identifies early math risk. And you can see here the USNS
assesses counting quantity number relationships, early addition and subtraction. And um again a key clarification is that the universal screener for number sense identifies risk and not growth. And the expectations increase from the beginning
of the year to the middle of the year by design. So it's a little bit the the benchmark is higher for Dibbles, but the actual um the actual expectations and the standards that we're addressing become more sophisticated and more rigorous as we go
through the year and we screen. So >> yeah, can I if I can just I think it's important to remember that the fall universal screener is measuring the prior year's end of year standards. So, a second grader being screened in
September is being screened on whether they've mastered the first grade standards. However, when they're screened again in January, they're being assessed on second grade standards that they should be making progress toward mastery by January. So, it's a
completely different test. >> Okay, Amy. So, we're going to talk about we're going to talk about these scores here. Amy, do you want to um do you want to talk about these scores at the middle of the year scores? >> Sure, absolutely. Um the thing that I'm so excited about at primary school is
when I look at proficiency at the beginning of the year for K1 and two, we've always said that our our place where we wanted to be is 80% proficient. and every single student at the primary school or not 80% of every grade level
entered with those standards met. So now when you go to the middle of the year um you really don't see a whole lot of change. I'm thrilled actually with these numbers that 77% 92% and 71% are already
proficient at their at their grade level middle ofear standards. So I think these are fantastic numbers and grade one is is just um light years forward. It's really wonderful to see. And then if you
also look at our high-risk percentages for below basic and well below basic those percentages are relatively small and haven't changed a whole lot from beginning of the year to middle of the year. And I also want to just plug all the
work that Amy has done at primary and also at Turkey Hill and the teachers show up every other week to meet with her and they engage in this work and I think it shows in the performance for sure. >> Yeah, I mean this these numbers are incredible. I just am curious from an education standpoint is that is it
typical that the math is I just or are we just that much more amazing at math? I just I know >> and you are too. I I I just I'm brand new at this so this it just seems like such a difference. And is it that writing is it because the reading standards are too much for kids at their
age? I don't know. You know, I think I think there's a few different factors. I think um that there has been consistency in math coaching and specialist services over the last four years. So I think that has made a very big difference. The
teachers have been working with green, with each other, with that curriculum very consistently for four years. And so the the growth in instructional practice has been huge. Um, which is absolutely wonderful. Ironically, math tends to
struggle more than literacy >> in in terms of proficiency. Um, and I think that's that's a fairly typical thing. I think we do see a little bit of um the struggle and I'm sorry I don't have three to five uh data completely
done. It's a fourth and fifth grade is a massive pro project. >> Yeah, no problem. >> To to screen um but we do tend to see a little bit of a dip in third through fifth grade. So when those numbers become available, you will see a slight
dip in the percentages of proficiency. Not because of teachers or instructional practices or any of those things, but because primary school and elementary school are very different animals and the curriculum becomes very complex very
quickly. Which is why the screener is so important because if kids are the screener is not the curriculum. You know, the screen is your basic number sense proficiency. If you don't have that, it is very, very challenging to access the third, fourth, and fifth
grade standards, which become very complex very quickly. >> Yeah, I was trying to help my kid with his fifth grade math homework the other day. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> No, no, it's fine. We did okay. But it took me a minute. >> Exactly. >> I just want to say this. I've been on
school committee for five years. These numbers have been consistently good. And I think it goes to like we can say it's all these things. I think it goes to our teachers and I think it goes to Amy. >> Absolutely. >> That's right. >> Amy's incredible. >> Yeah, she is. And and Amy talked about
that consistency piece and that's really important. >> All right, Amy, these focus areas for primary. Okay. So, primary school um teachers have been doing a lot more work with subetizing and counting. Subetizing is
just by hold up a card with the dot pattern of five, they can say five without having to count. And that is a core component of early number sense. Um, and what we're finding is subetizing in those basic processes of recognizing
number is really strong in first and second grade and kindergarten. You can see it's the third of the primary focus areas. The kids are really doing very very well with it. We are seeing counting patterns um needing a little bit of focus. Teachers count with
students every single day. Go into classrooms every day. they are counting. Where it gets trickier is when we're asking them to count start at the number 34 and keep counting and then they have to go over tens or over hundreds or counting backwards. So, one of the focal
areas is going to be on strengthening the patterns of numbers and how we move up and down a chart, a number chart. Um, addition and subtraction is really the core of the work that we need to to focus on. And that really comes down to
being able to take the small pieces of number and manipulate them, pull them apart, put them back together again, and understand the relationship between addition and subtraction that they're not two separate things that we're teaching, but it is one concept of
working with number. So place value and addition and subtraction I think are going to be our primary focus areas. That is the greatest core foundational place for kids to be able to move into multiplication, division and fraction.
>> Thank you. >> Sure. >> And that concludes our data talk. Do you have any more questions? >> Thank you. >> Can can I ask one overarching question? So the concern that has been brought up numerous times is about the third grade
test on the MCCAST outcomes where a very large percentage were below grade level. >> The dibbles test indicates similar problems but not to the same degree. Can we explain the difference
based on, you know, different things the tests are measuring or is it because the kids get nervous for MCCAST? Like why are why is the MCCAST score worse than the double? >> It's a completely different assessment. So really with MCCAST, what you're doing
is you're demonstrating reading comprehension through writing and then you have to answer these multiple choice questions and you have to demonstrate that you have knowledge of let's say like um figurative language and and vocabulary and different different areas
of literacy. The Dibbles assessment is more on the foundational piece like can do kids have the building blocks to be able to read and then you have to remember that comprehension. So again, with the MCCAST, they're demonstrating comprehension through writing. I mean,
primarily that's what they're doing or typing. Now, this I'm old school where we used to actually have to write out the responses. Um, and then also into the multiple choice questions, but the comprehension piece is an outcome. So, without all of those other processes
working to working together and working at correctly, we're kids are not going to be able to comprehend text as much as they need to. But again, that writing piece is also really critically important. We need kids to be learning how to respond to the specific tasks
that MCCAST a asks and those the language that MCCAST um uses is probably a little bit more elevated than we might see in some of our curriculum. So exposure to the tasks is going to be important. But again, remember third
grade is the first time that kids are exposed to those types of tasks. Okay. Which is which has have empirical studies found to be more predictive of outcomes success on Dibble or success on MCAST? >> Well, they measure different things. One
is one is a predictor of reading difficulty and then the other is the ability to truly comprehend text. There's I mean and again there's so much that goes into comprehending. So, not only is it just the foundational piece, but it's also exposure to background
knowledge and vocabulary. Sometimes a student could demonstrate proficiency when it comes to a passage about baseball that they're reading because they've been playing baseball for 5 years. But if we have a student who's, you know, who came from another country and has never experienced a snow day,
this actually happened to me. Never experienced a snow day. Never hunted in the backyard for treasure. Didn't know what a snow day was. this actually happened to my students. It their performance was not an accurate indicator of how well they could comprehend text and then write about the
text that they read. They just didn't have the background knowledge. >> So, are you saying that MCCAST is not as accurate? >> I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that they're different assessments. I actually I I actually believe in a standardized assessment like MCCAST. I'm
I'm actually a I perhaps not MCCAST, but I'm not not a fan of standardized testing because when you went to law school, you had to pass a standardized assessment. Correct. We did as teachers. These are things that you know that we're going to encounter in life.
However, um there are so many different variables that could impact a student's performance. >> Okay. So I guess the the the sum summitative question is should we be super concerned about the MCCAST or should we be super concerned about the
dibbles or both? I think we should be super concerned about making sure that we have the right resources for our teachers, we have the right professional development for our teachers, and that we have um the staffing that we need to make sure that
we are able to provide the right intervention for our kids who are at the most risk. >> Okay, >> I believe this was a discussion item. give us. >> Um, I just want to make one point, Beth. The explanation of the nonsense word
thing. I've been struggling with this concept for years. That was the best explanation. And I always wondered like, why are we teaching them gibberish? But it filters out their the impact that memory has in biasing the outcomes of the test. >> It does. And often times we don't
instruct with nonsense words. We only assess with nonsense words. Okay. >> So, occasionally, you know, in activities or whatever nonsense words will happen um in in a literacy class, but um for the most part, we reserve it
for that assessment piece because there is no way for a student to memorize a nons. So, it re it really shows us so much more than a list of words ever could. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh, next on the discussion is draft warrant articles. So, let's go. >> Can I borrow your microphone again? >> Sure. >> I can't get it. Thank you.
>> So, at our last school committee meeting, we discussed adding two items to the warrant. One related to the turf fields and one related to Kids Kingdom. Um, I took a shot at drafting those
warrant articles for us. Um, I actually Kids Kingdom just copied the one from the special town meeting warrant and changed um the address because it was wrong. >> And it will be submitted by um school committee now obviously because that's
what you voted to do. As long as the lawyer on board thinks this is good, I'm good with it. >> So, I'm going to say this like I number one, yeah, >> I do not provide legal advice. I know >> but the language of town meeting warrant
articles is like uh like medieval heritage. So like they do not follow the same rules >> really. >> Yes. So I don't know anything about the language for town. This seems fine. Like the the pattern that I have been able to
advance since being on school committee tells me that it has to start with to see if the town will blah blah blah blah blah. Um, so it >> raise and appropriate. >> Yeah, this is exactly what it should say. But I do not bring any specialized knowledge because of the unusual nature
of town meeting warrant article rules of construction. >> My only question I guess on the um 195,830. Do we usually go with the exact number like that? We have a bid in hand for that number, right? Okay, that's fine. I
just want to make sure that was >> Do we need to approve these? I I think this is a discussion. >> It's just a discussion. >> Okay. >> I I like I like the language of both the fact that we have the $195,830 tied to a specific thing. Yes.
>> I think that will help the town process what we're doing. I also think that uh you know the kids kingdom thing everything has been done correctly and so I am happy to have the
town give that back to the have the people of the town give that back to the town government. So >> let's do it. >> All right. Any any other discussion we want to have on these? All right. Let's go back.
Next item on agenda is the 20 27 proposed budget. See money, come on down. >> Chris, I hope you noticed that the town manager started to call you C. >> I did. That's not That's not the worst
nickname in the world. >> So, what you guys have tonight is the proposed budget for FY27. Yep. >> Right now it stands at 28,259,974 which is a little bit more than $2 million from FY26
FY26 budget. Um just some things that stood out to me when I was completing the budget. >> Um obviously one of the big things is health insurance. It goes from being 14% of our budget to 16%.
>> Um it's going up >> that's so much >> probably 8 to $900,000. >> Yep. >> And that's based on just predictions right now. >> Uh other things that stood out was on the expense side. Um and salary side
they are both going up about a million dollars. Salaries are all contractual based on the LEA, par profofessional union, uh custodians. >> Um >> so can you this budget that you've
proposed this Excel spreadsheet? >> Yeah. >> Um number one, is there a place the public can see this yet? And is this stuff posted? I know um >> we posted it online today. >> Okay. So where would people find it if they're looking for stuff? On the school committee page. >> Yes, correct. >> Okay. Um, and then this is the what we
would call a level funded. >> Level funed. >> So this would be the same amount of staffing, same staffing. >> This is level service. >> Oh, level service. >> Sorry, I'm sorry to not be level service. So this is level service. >> Yes, correct. >> And of the $2 million increase, about $900,000 of that is because of health
insurance. >> Okay. >> Approximately. >> Approximately. So I did speak to the town manager today, just so folks know about the health insurance issue. She gave me some rough numbers and you know um she said let's say that the town budget as a
whole is $50 million. She was she was giving me round numbers like off the top of her head, right? Um you know last year for the entire town health insurance was about $1.3 million and the new number is about 2.7 I think she told me. >> Yeah. >> So uh that alone >> is going to crush our budget. Correct.
>> Correct. Um, so, okay. So, this is a level services number. >> Um, and this is on the website. >> Yeah. So, no cuts, no additions. >> No cuts, no additions. Correct. >> Okay. >> So, Chris, I also want to point out that
there was a substantial increase in the student transportation costs. Those are also something that we cannot control. >> Yes. Um can you talk to us about like if you combine those two numbers uh the general and special education
what's the difference in total student transportation from this year to last year >> uh about $300,000. >> Okay. So this is you know this. Yeah Dr. Unfortunately, you know this just for
the public edification, we do not have any other people that will bid for transportation services. >> Correct. >> We have not had not even a competit an uncompetitive offer. We have only had one company bid year after year. I
believe this is the fourth contract they have been awarded where there has been no other bidder. Yeah. And to the extent that we can't use the free market to pit companies against each other and drive down costs, we're just going to be stuck
paying $300,000 more a year add infinitive. >> Yeah. >> So like this is another cost that we cannot stop. >> Yeah. like the cost in the increase in healthcare, the increase in utilities and the increase in transportation. We
have no way of stopping. >> No. >> To my knowledge and I wasn't here but I believe DBUS was like you said the only bidder. >> Yes. >> On our last contract which runs through 2028 I believe. >> Yes.
>> But it's been four I think it's four consecutive contracts where DBUS has been the only bidder. Correct. And so when they increase costs, we have no way to stop them from doing that. >> No. >> So with tri board being next week, so
for the public's knowledge as well, you know, we've been meeting the select board, the finance committee, and the school committee for quite a while. Um next week, as I spoke to the town manager and she talked about at our last meeting, she's hopeful that we may have a longer first we might hear from the public. There will be a public session
where people can come and speak on the town budget. um and anything they've heard over the last few, you know, few months and anything we've talked about in the in the last few months and then a discussion between the three boards. I was going to come here to recommend
although maybe we won't take a formal vote, but that the school committee have a few ideas of what we would like to present as our sort of asks of the group. Um, you know, the select board eventually will have, you know, a lot of the say in what, you know, we work
collaboratively, right? But the select board and the finance and, you know, and and and the town manager. Um, for those who aren't aware of the way the budget process works at the state level, um, all budgeting is I didn't take even take
accounting, so you'll have to, you know, all budgeting is ins and outs, right? So, this is what we would like to spend. you know, we can't come up with a number for an override or whatever of it until we know how much we have to spend, >> right?
>> That number won't be finalized for a while. Jen has given us some estimates which we have to start working off of. And and again, and Dr. Fortuna, you can, you know, >> interrupt me if there's anything I'm saying out of line. Um, but, you know, understandably, Jen has not been able to give us a firm number yet. Um, so we
can't really, so there's parts of the budget process that will we cannot sort of crystallize on at this point, but we do, I think, need to have a conversation with my colleagues up here about a few different ways we could go with the tri board. Um,
you know, the the governor's budget will come out next week. The governor's budget is just a recommendation, but that will have some numbers in it that Jen will be able to use to start formulating better. She also did mention at tribard last week she's going there's a big conference this weekend of all municipal >> she's there
>> she's there already or at MMA and she does expect that she will get a better refined answer on the health insurance the health insurance is going to be a monstrous number but with a monstrous number you know there there may be some refining there >> um I don't know is there anything else that would which she's waiting on kind
of >> those are the two biggest things right chapter 70 and and that >> so I don't know um Tony and and I and Emily, but I sort of feel like in my head there's sort of two budgets that I would like us to sort of colesque
around. This level services budget and then a possible budget that has some expanded service, some targeted investments as we like to say. >> Um I don't know how you feel about that and what you you've been through this in other towns. So, um, that that's
important to me to kind of your opinion. >> Yeah. So, um, Chris, do you remember the numbers we talked about before the meeting? Um, why don't we discuss that with the board at this point? >> Okay. >> So, based on revenue projections right
now, they're looking at a reduction of about $1.7 million. >> So, that would be for us. >> For us. >> Yes. So that would be a third option which is not a good option and not one that we want. >> No.
>> No. Um and so so I think so I I don't know Tony how you want to do this but I sort of think there's a few different ways we can sort of we can go to triboard and say we want to keep level services. You know, one of the
things that's been discussed a lot at Trioboard is expanding the firefighters, which I think, you know, is necessary and sounds like a good proposal. You know, I personally, if they if that is something that's going to go into the override, I think the schools need to be able to put in a few expanded services,
expanded needs as well. The other thing is, you know, last year the last board talked about a three-year projection, right? And so are we in a position where we are always going to be going back to the town every year um because two and a
half% is not going to keep us more than one year. Um or are we going to uh feel like this is something that we're going to go every, you know, not every year, but we're going to have to analyze every year. Um
you know, my understanding from other towns is you can do this a bunch of different ways, right? You can put an override on a ballot that is one number which includes everything. I mean all the different departments. It can be a one year. It can be a multiple year because basically when you're voting
you're you're voting to increase the levy limit. You don't have to spend to the levy limit. So an example of this is you could say you're going to expand c you know you're going to le increase the levy limit by $20 million. We're not going to do that. So I'm just using a random number, right? But then you only spend
to a certain amount each year. So that way you're only going through town meeting. You're only going to the ballot once. It would have to go through town meeting each year, >> but it would only go to the ballot once. >> Um but I have concerns about a huge number having no um
>> no plan to get it passed, right? Um >> so I think a good place actually for us to start is to really talk about what we value. >> Yeah. and coalesce around that what what
is the most important thing because I think that will help inform any additions that we put into the budget as well as if we have to make cuts any cuts that we put into the budget. >> So I think that's an important place to
start especially right now where we don't have firm revenue numbers. Yeah. So we don't know which direction we're going. So I would recommend that that's where we start in the conversation. I I I think that one of the problems is the
timing of this last of the tri board meetings is not ideal >> because until we get some of the numbers on healthcare projections and the governor's budget, we're just going to go in there and like it's all going to be spitballing and it makes no like I I
don't want to I don't want to say it makes no sense, but like yeah, >> we're not going to really be able to do anything productive. I I am also not inclined to put forward anything other than
uh a level services budget and a restore uh you know restored services budget. So like going fixing what we did last time in the hopes that we pass an override. I think it is abundantly clear to me that there is no way this town will function
the way it currently does without an override. Mhm. >> And so, you know, going in there and saying, you know, we're going to shoot all of your sacred cows in the head until we get what we want. Is it like we don't know enough to do that yet?
>> Yeah. No. And I'm not suggest, you know, I'm not suggesting that we need to I guess my only I don't really want to talk about cuts, right? Because I want an override. I guess my and I and I expressed this to Dr. Fortuna a little bit. My only concern about not talking
about cuts is how do we make it real for the people who have to vote to raise their own taxes. >> Well, the problem is we don't know what the money is going to look like. Like I don't think it's pos I don't think it's likely, but it is possible given the state revenues that the governor says. I
understand municipalities are in an unprecedented crisis that you know happens once every 70 years because Prop 2 and a half is a suicide pack in an era of increased inflation. Um, so I'm going to let the state coffers flow a little bit more to the towns and that that
might >> offset some of the catastrophic effects of healthcare cost increases. >> So, you know, we can go to the tri board with a plan, but the plan won't mean anything because we don't have the final
numbers. And that's why I think we should keep at the high level of really putting our value statements out there. And we can do that I think at the tri board meeting. >> Jen is um the town manager is assuming
that she's going to get the governor's budget actually tomorrow. >> Y >> um >> in generally the governor announces it at the MMA meeting because she goes to the MMA. So she and not her particularly in general the governor goes and announces and usually tries to make it good news.
>> So as an electioner as well >> right you know I talked to some of our state legislators. I've been also meeting with state legislators and on you know just personally and kind of you know kicking the tires on like let you know and they're a little hopeful you know that's not a firm number the
governor's number but it is very difficult for the legislature to back off the governor's number. Um >> yeah, and she will also get a firmer range um for health insurance. >> So that's important to note that we should have that for our next tri board
meeting on Tuesday. >> Yeah. >> Um I think I don't want to talk about cuts right now because I think it's too early to talk about it. I don't think we have enough information. Yeah, >> I think um like Tony said, as soon as we
have more information, then I think we should start thinking about what it is that we said we valued and what it is that we can cut from the budget. >> Yeah. And so do you think it's
worthwhile to sort of have an idea of what two ideal situations would be? Like not talking about the cuts, right? the obviously the ideal situation in my head and I don't know I don't want to speak for both of you or Laura you know would be to some targeted investments like you
have proposed to us I think very thoughtfully with the um you know with your principles and your leadership team right um so I wouldn't want to lose the opportunity to sort of have that as well as a level services you know budget I think we've you've been very clear and I
think this committee has been very clear that we don't more cuts are not acceptable and will hurt the children of Lunenburgg, you know, and that we're and we are not doing what we need to honestly right now and that we um you
know that that level services is the lowest that we should allow and we should stand for. Um and I understand that, you know, that is not going to be a popular opinion with everyone, but I didn't run for school committee and I didn't take this on to be a popular opinion. So, you
know, my kids, I go home every day and look them in the face and know we are not doing everything that we can do to, you know, that that we can do. And there are kids all over the state who are getting a better education than they are. And you know,
>> I think like as a as a policy statement or as a position, >> I think that the best we can do without more numbers is to say that we need to make sure that every student has access
to good highquality instruction regardless of where they fall in those four boxes. Yeah. And the fact that we are not providing MTSS to this to all students who are well below is a sign
that we need to invest in more interventionists >> and that >> that's the direction we're heading >> that if if the money worked out we would we would put more money into interventionist. I also think that on the reverse side
for me if there is a need to have uh cuts which we should not have to sustain because we've already gone through the cuts process then the places where we're going to cut are places that are not education related. If there are expenses
that we can eliminate, if there's administration that we can eliminate, if there are non-education programs that we can eliminate, you know, like we can't start with the education. We've already done too much of that. >> Yeah. >> I think the other thing that I would say
is like a general philosophy is if we have to shoot sacred cows, I think, you know, we should do it so that everybody takes a haircut. We've we have like I will go on record last year we did not
make any cuts to the sports programs out for an outcry by the parents. The sports programs did not take their fair share of cuts. We cut educational staff. We cut interventionist. And that strikes me as something that a educational
institution should not be doing. And if if everybody wants to insist that their thing has to stay alive and the cuts should come elsewhere, then you know, we're sort of in this position where we're just playing Russian roulette
every time. Yeah. >> If we can have a philosophy, and I and >> you know, I I just think that we should have a philosophy of seeing what we can do where everybody makes a little bit of a sacrifice instead of forcing people to pick what survives and what doesn't. And
I think that, you know, we did not do that last time and it was and we can see the results. The test scores have gone down. It was a bad idea. And you know, like when all of the kids and all of the parents and all the sports people came out, that was a bad meeting. It was a
pointless meeting that resulted in punishing people for no reason, right? It was just stupid. And you know, I I understand why it happened, but the end result was instead of everybody taking a little bit of a haircut, we took an axe
to parts of the educational apparatus of this institution that make quite frankly no sense to me. We've got to protect our core functions. >> And so I think that those are the the approaches we take. We we have we need an override. We have data that supports
the fact that when we imposed austerity measures, it had impacts on student achievement and that until we have more numbers, we can't be specific, but that our approach would be to make sure that everybody takes a haircut instead of, you know, continuingly continually
targeting certain programs. Mhm. Do you I'm really curious what you think about a three-year I'm not sure it's feasible, but I also think we need to be very clear with the public and and I just I I
don't know how we do that, right? Like like what you know what are we you know last year's whole thing was we're not going to do an override this year because we're gonna do it one next year and we're gonna plan for years ahead and I just don't feel like we've done that at Trioboard. I'm not sure. You know, I think there's a lot of
>> I think that the idea of like a multi-art or like a a tiered or banded uh override is too complex. >> Okay. >> I what I would suggest that we do and I'm happy to be convinced that this >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think this is a
real discussion. I I I am not >> wedded to anything. I just >> you know like we should ask for one number and it should be enough that we get everything we need and then you know understand that we might need that number the next year. So, like, you
know, >> if if like >> I feel like when we did our when we did the override >> two years ago, >> Yes. I would have preferred to ask for more money. Yep. >> And I I felt like we left a little bit
of money on the table because we had good political will. >> And because nobody thought it was going to pass >> except maybe you >> and me. >> Okay. I was gonna say >> and you. Yeah. you you you convinced a lot of people that it was going to pass.
Um but I I think that like I would prefer to ask for what we think is prudent. >> Yeah. >> As opposed to like trying to nickel and dime and then find ourselves in a a position of pain the next year because it is not going to get better. The
things that are putting pressure on us are giant multinational corporations that run a muck by charging inordinate amounts of money for healthare. No one is no one is doing that. We cannot count on our political leaders to solve that problem. There is no will on a national
level for that to happen. And all of that flows down to us. And so if we can't on count on anybody helping us, then we've got to fix it ourselves. And I think that we we should ask for a number that has a multi-year view even
if it's not a multi-year override because I just think that like conceptually that's very difficult. >> Yeah. No, I mean I think it's hard to explain. I mean it is. I I do think there is some merit possibly politically and otherwise to offering voters a few
tiers, >> but they're just going to take the bottom tier. I mean like >> but what if the top tier is too high? Do you think some people might say >> well that's why I think that like one of the things that I know is going on is that people are working diligently to
craft that number that they think is and prudent >> right >> but not too high >> right and I do think you know we have over the last few years focused too much on I think some of this stuff like is it too high is it the right time is it not the right time right and I I think
that's been a conversation that we you've lived through here. We've lived through before we were on this board and and I'm done with that convers like personally done with that conversation because I think you know we go to the voters. We have to go to the voters, right? Like we shouldn't be trying to
game in some ways game the gaming the system, but do you know what I mean? Like trying to >> use game theory to determine what the number is as opposed to what's prudent. >> Well, no. Use game theory to decide what the voters are going to do. Do you know what I don't know what they're going to do.
>> Well, but that's what I mean. Instead of being like, "Well, we should wait. We should do that." Do you understand? Am I describing it right? I don't mean for you not to be part of this if you're >> um >> We should go to the number. We should go to them with a number that we think is supported by the data. >> Yeah.
>> That shows how we would spend the money in a way that indicates good stewardship and transparency. >> Yeah. and also does not shoot ourselves in the foot because 2026 is going to be a bad year financially and in the
economy. 2027 will be worse. >> I do not foresee any relief coming in the next three years, >> right? And the state is just spending more and more money filling holes that the federal government is pulling away. >> And we also have to count on the fact that uh the federal government has
decided to murder the Department of Education. >> Yep. and we will not get the same money in the same way. >> I did actually mention that to the legislators I spoke to this week, which I know is not a number one thing, but um >> I mean it's very clear that the decision
to murder the Department of Education was not based on any actual facts, but based on political >> Yeah. Um Okay. So I do agree with you that next week's meeting of tribe board unfortunately is a little early but I don't want to lose the opportunity to
have some input on what you know and I think and I think the select board is open to an override. I know they haven't, you know, not every member, not every, but I think, you know, there, you know, Jen has been very clear. It's not just the school department that is going
to be crushed by any, you know, any um >> yeah, finan sorry financial uh discussion moving forward. So yeah, I mean I think prior prioritizing educational programs, prioritizing
reading, I know I mean I do feel for the high school. I you know I not feel for that's not in the right way. I do feel like we've you know like Mr. Santry has been here the options are dwindling. You know the eighth graders aren't going to have languages. I do think we need to
address that some that we want kids to have a full high school experience when they're here. I you know like from >> but how do I you know >> from what I've heard and what I've seen in terms of the research studies that people have sent over the years I think
that the the high school problem is different than the non- high school problem. >> Yeah. >> And that the high school problem, you know, like >> our students do pretty well in high school on standardized testing. Yes. And
so like what we need to do to maintain that is to make sure that we have good school or good choices among class >> cuz you know class choice is as important in high school as class size
is in elementary school. Yeah. And I also think that we need to make sure that we, you know, butress and help support the the, you know, like the full paniply of auctions, right? Like the idea that we would not have a language
department is untenable. >> Yeah. uh the the fact that like the you know in addition to providing some flexibility in the schedule that you know having an additional PE class has real benefits and that you know people can better plan their schedule. So like
I think that you know for them it's like if we can give them the people they can make it work whereas I think that the problems that we're facing in the primary school are we need to we need to make sure that all the votes that the rising tide lifts all the votes and
those numbers are super concerning. >> Yeah. I mean they're super concerning. I just think I worry about a I do worry about a downward spiral of other school districts have faced the idea that less choice which I think
you're saying right less choice less whatever kids choose to go somewhere else we lose that chapter 70 money we can offer less right because those you know chapter 70 is a um formula based on
enrollment um so you know that can be population moving out of town. It can be a lot of things. But if you lose kids because they go to St. Bernards or they go to, you know, school choice somewhere else or they go to another private school, you know, or or a charter school, kids that may have stayed in Lunenburgg, right? You lose their
chapter 70 money, you lose a bunch, then you lose another teacher, you lose more choice. I just think that's something for the public to think about as well because you we don't want to be in a I think you up here we understand that but you don't want to be in that spiral
because that is not a good place to be um for other districts right I mean that happens >> it's hard to reverse >> it is very difficult to reverse >> um because then you it it just kind of continues to to get problems yes >> right um
>> and like I also think that like one of the things that makes the high school a little different is that like the the rubrics for evaluating a high school especially for like use US News and World Report and colleges >> they're pretty I mean like how many AP
classes how many you know like there's just like it's like a big checklist and so like you know if if we get the override the way that we help the high school is by providing them with people so that they can you know put the
effects of class choice into play for students. >> I also think and this is like maybe my pet peeve, but like we have way too many study halls. >> No study halls. No, like no study halls. >> And that's because we don't have enough teach. We don't have enough staff. >> If you are in this building, you should
be getting educated, not messing around in study hall. >> Yeah. >> Like no study halls. I understand that they have some role in creating schedule flexibility for the building as a whole, but if we could take money that we get
from the override and provide more teachers for class choice purposes, then we can get rid of wasteful dumb study halls. I hate study halls. They're dumb. I don't I mean, maybe >> I agree with you about study halls. It
also impacts our time on learning requirements for the state. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean we I I think you're the one who had said previously that we're getting close to that. >> We're very close to that. >> Right. That that's not and that's not unacceptable. >> Correct. >> I mean the state won't allow it.
>> Right. >> Um Emily, please. Is there anything you want to add? >> No. >> Oh, please. You don't. You just going to let Tony and I pontificate? So, what I'm hearing what I'm hearing from the board right
now is that you would actually like us to present the strategic investment >> budget that we had talked about. >> Yes. >> With the understanding that that's going to add another 1.6. >> Is it another 1.6?
>> Yeah. This >> what? >> 1.7. Thank you, Chris. Um, >> so that's a 3.7 over this year, but that doesn't include any revenue that may, you know, >> right, >> we may get, right? >> So it wouldn't be a 3.7 override number
because we will have some revenue from the town. >> Yes, >> I don't think so. I don't >> I mean the chapter no >> I mean she hasn't but like the number Jen gave us at the last meeting >> $86,000 >> that included that took our health insurance that 900,000
>> did not include cola increases for any town employees other than ours so there is no money zero money >> if Jen She took the health insurance out though of that number >> right >> I don't think so
>> she took the health insurance increases out of that Didn't she? >> I didn't think she did. >> So, right now, if we take that $1.3 million that the town would is the initial revenue projection,
>> the schools traditionally their budget gets 53.3% of that. >> That would leave us with a number of $696,521.74 to fund the schools >> extra. True. >> Yes. No. Not extra over all together
over level funding. >> No. Our budget would be $696,521.74, meaning we would have to cut $1.78 million from the budget. >> Right. Because that is Yeah. >> Yeah. That's the number that you gave us, which is
>> and I think that if we have the projected budget that Chris gave us tonight and the the the >> strategic investment strategic investment budget, those are those two budgets are >> that's the two we're working on as long as we feel like as a committee that that's what we're working on. And I I I
just feel like be again before we pe shoot people's sacred cows, we probably need to know what our costs actually are and what the investment from the state actually. >> Yeah. What our what our revenue actually is, not we're waiting for a revenue like a real revenue number from Jen.
>> And it's not that we're being polyianaish and hoping that the the override passes, but we don't know enough to say what we're going to have to cut. So I have heard from the town manager that she says sometimes they bring a budget to town meeting that's
just the override number >> that >> that that could be a possibility. >> I have no idea. I like >> so she did say that to me. I I I don't think no this were very early. >> None of none of that is but that is a decision the select board and her could make basically and then if it the
override didn't pass they'd have to come back to town meeting again with another budget. But in that situation there would the cuts would be made after >> which wouldn't really work. >> The timing uh that for would be problematic, right?
>> Yeah. >> We got to change the charter so that we're not meeting the first Saturday in May. >> I think there should be a town a warrant article that someone sponsors to to revise the charter >> because my understanding is that town meeting is listed as and I haven't
looked at the charter but someone told me >> it's a specific date. specific date. It's dumb. And other towns >> meet at night or they meet earlier >> or >> No, earlier. >> Earlier in the year. >> Oh. Oh, I think earlier in the day. I'm like, no. >> No, no, no, no, they meet earlier in the
year. >> Yeah, >> like in April. >> But I also think >> I don't know. But if having the budget, but why does it have to be set? What? Can't we just set it so the select board can set when it is? >> Why do we not have some mechanism to acknowledge the impacts of inflation? So
like for example, if inflation is over 2 and a.5% there needs to be some sort of special thing that happens. If it's you automatically put an override on the ballot or select board has to have some sort of thing. But like the idea that
Prop 2 and a half is made it so that we are on a suicide mission every every year is just nuts. And I would like to make another public comment to anyone who's listening, but everyone complaining about the new Dunkin Donuts in the center of town on Facebook needs to realize that having industry in town
is what brings money in. So until the world changes and the state changes, we either need to have more industry in town or people need to pay more taxes. That's how it works. >> Those are the only two revenue sources. >> Those are our only two revenue sources. So, if people are against Dunkin Donuts,
I appreciate there's some issues with the traffic and all those things, but if we do not let more businesses into town, our taxes are going to go up or your services are going to be devastated. We will have no fire department. We will have no school. We will have no town
manager. That's just the reality. And if we don't I mean, honestly, I if we don't have a town manager, I mean, not a town manager, we have her. If you don't have a town fire department, right, the impact on homeowners insurance is really
catastrophic. >> Yeah. And it's not that industry is going to solve all of our problems, but I have my brother and sister-in-law live in another community that is on Route 9. They have a lot of business businesses that support their school district. My nephew is in kindergarten. He has 16
kids in his class and he's learning Spanish. So that's the education he is getting in compared to the kids in our school district. So we can discuss the merits of whether being need you need to learn Spanish in kindergarten but we may
not have but I mean but we may not be able to offer our eighth graders Spanish. So I just I think I just I feel like for the last six months I've been patient and quiet and sitting here and just listening to everything but like the gloves are off. like we are going to devastate our
school system if we do not get the money that we need. I mean, it's just >> I find it nuts that we're okay with having a userous bank there. Yes. >> But like somebody handing out donuts is all of a sudden an absolute controversy. >> Yeah. They want people want a a mom and
pop shop. >> Fine. Find one that wants to do it, >> right? Run your own mom and pop. >> If you want a mom and pop shop, get off of Facebook and open a business. No one's going to do that. >> Sorry, I don't mean to sound so, but I
just like I can't. So, what I'll ask Chris to do is to, and he already knows what I'm going to ask, is to prepare a budget that has the additional um pieces that we outlined for our strategic
investments. >> Y >> yeah. >> Okay. The one thing I have to say is this budget thing was really way better. There have been times when I've been like meeting in the lunchroom cafeteria
doing a five minute emergency because some number was screwed up. It is so much nicer to have everything organized and laid out. The other thing is while we were talking, the actual cost increase if you include athletic
transportation for the DEBUS contract is almost a4 million from last year. It's $246,000. >> So yeah, so the $2 million increase for a level services budget, $900,000 of that is health insurance >> and a quarter million of it is debust
>> and a quarter million of it is debust. So, I mean that alone that's over half >> of the increase. >> And if we included utilities, my guess is that we're getting close to like 79%.
>> Pretty close. >> That's it. >> I think that's one thing that would be helpful in a future right meeting is just a pie that says, you know, or like a list. This is the increase, right? >> Yeah. to have level services like a one
slide not a million right and this is the pie the increase is 2 million 900,000 of it is is health insurance >> 246,000 is debus >> you know some of it is contractual increases right um you know I I just think that would be a visual that might
be helpful >> I think that's a great visual >> like you know we're not >> and I'd also think the cuts we took last year I would like to know how many FTEEs we lost last year so that we can remind 17 >> people >> I don't >> or what percentage again this is not a
like a moment right now but I think a percentage of staff we have already lost over the last three years would be a good like the school district has already taken a 10% cut in staff or what you know whatever it is >> Liz would you be able to help us compile that number
>> thank you >> all right is there anything else we want to discuss about proposed budget for FY27 Kudos, Chris, for having everything ready to go. All right, the next item on the agenda
is old business. And this is something that I worked on. So, um, the idea would be for us at a later hearing, probably next week or next time,
>> to vote on a directive for >> Oh, yeah. >> Ty Hill. Um, so there's a memo in the folder, but the memo is really for people who aren't on school committee, didn't read the report. >> I can't access it. You let me in.
>> Oh, did I not let you? I let you in. Yeah, you sent me a separate email. >> Okay. >> Did you get a separate email? >> Tony, can I change the access to anyone with the link? >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um >> I'm like wondering what this is. >> So, here's the idea. We have not made
any forward progress on Turkey Hill. And the reason why we have not made any forward progress on Turkey Hill is twofold. Number one, it's a lot of money. And number two, the funding process is complicated. The problem is we are in this sort of like,
you know, chicken and the egg problem where we don't know how to make the first step because we don't know how much it's going to be. So, we get stuck. And so, the idea would be that we would plan on rehabilitating the Turkey Hill building unless the out-ofpocket cost to
the taxpayers of the town of Lutenberg, not the money that we get from MSBA. My understanding is, and if you review the projects that I fund, they have a strong bias towards new construction. And quite frankly, I don't care what the state
government wants us to do. Give us the money, we'll make the decision. It's our town. It's our taxpayer dollars. Whether it's MSBA money or money we raise from the town, it's all taxpayer dollars. There's no other magic source. So, it's our money. And so if the cost of a new
building is no more than 25% additional funding, then it probably makes, you know, fiscal sense to do a new building. And the reason I say that is because if we rehab Turkey Hill, we'll probably get 50 years out of it. If we build a new building, we may get a 100 years out of
it. And so if the cost is only, you know, is no more than 25% more, then I think that that additional 50 years in the future is worthwhile. the a lot of I I talked to a lot of people. I talked to Anna Lockwood. I talked to
the town manager. I talked to Carol Archinbol. I talked to uh Mr. Rogers. I talked to Chris Manard. I talked to Caesar Nolo. I talked to uh Dave Platt. I talked to Kim from the master planning committee. Um, I talked to a bunch of
people trying to figure out like whether the idea is a good one and whether the percentage is a good one. And I I don't know. I'm not like sold on the 25%, but I just feel like it's like a round it's like a very understandable process, easy to process number. It it's like very
financially prudent. We're not saying like, you know, if the difference is 80% that would be an issue. Um, you know, I I will tell you like Carol, who is like the wisest person I know, she basically said that, you know, she thought it was a good idea. She's not
sure about the palatability of the 25% number, but she said it sounded reasonable. I talked to Mr. Rogers, who was a delight. Um, and >> has a lot of experience and some he has obligated me to say this. Uh, Mr. Rogers wife needs to know that Mr. Rogers is
very wise. uh but he thought that maybe we should uh just go big and you know address it head-on. Uh he liked the idea of getting moving. Um I talked to Chris Manard. Chris Manard who was super busy
and uh basically said I'm not sure if I'm going to have time to review the memo. So I just explained the idea. He had talked about you know whether or not we have uh space in the borrowing over the next couple years and he thinks that it might work. Um, I talked to Mr. Platt
who had some really good ideas about additional funding sources. One of the things that he had said is that there is green money available that people are not tapping into. And so if we could tap into it on a state level or on a city level, we should be doing that. He also thought that, you know, he was the one
that brought up the idea of 50 versus 100 years. And though it's, you know, >> well in the future, there is some value to having a hundred years of life. >> Yeah. Um I talked in in talking to Kim, Kim thought that the real issue that we
have is that there is a cost related to delay that by not having some directionality to the Turkey Hill uh issue. We're just kicking stuff down the line. Uh she had looked at like inflation numbers for town projects
because, you know, she's like a she's like a number person. She's a scientist. And it was really staggering to hear some of the like costs associated with just delays. And then Mr. Menard said the same thing like that that not doing anything is literally costing us a lot
of money every year because like you know if inflation's 3% and we wait five years and the project is, you know, $50 million, we're talking millions of dollars just because we're sort of like messing around. >> So >> I just don't know what people want us to do at this point if we're not going through MSBA.
>> Oh no. I think everybody I mean my understanding is that we had already committed to going through MSBA. >> Yeah. So I mean the waiting to me is just like I don't Yeah. I don't know what the other option is. >> No no I I think that like like for example there are there are ADA things
that I would like to do at Turkey Hill. >> Yeah. >> But if we're going to tear down the building then it may not be fiscally prudent to invest in it. >> Yeah. >> I personally like if it was my money I would spend the money and I don't care if it's fiscally prudent. Right. But I I recognize that we live in a democracy
and so other people's opinions matter. So like if we could say to people, "Yeah, we're going to spend money to do these improvements at Turkey Hill, but we're going to rehab the building and so the money we spent is not lost." That might generate some >> Okay. I I understand what you're what you're saying at that point is that
people might be willing to spend a little money, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. If we Right. Now, capital planning is >> basically like we're not >> maybe less willing to spend money if we're going to knock the building down. >> Yeah. like are you going to spend $87,000 to redo the vestibial if you're going to knock it down in two years? And
it's like no, no, that's crazy. But if you set the threshold at 25%. That basically means we're getting mana from heaven from MSBA and we'd be silly not to build a new building because this is what you said and I thought about it like over Christmas and I was like, you
know, I think she's right. >> And so, >> yeah, I just don't want to close the door on a new building just arbitrarily, I guess. Mana from heaven. I am all for because again >> while building building >> it's our money, right? Like if they give us our money at a rate that gets it down
to no more than 25%. Why not >> right? But we have to have some proposiveness, some directionality to the Turkey Hill thing. Otherwise, we're just going to be stuck. >> Yeah. And like I I really want to break up the log jam that has us, you know,
kind of bound up at at capital planning, bound up on fin because they're trying to budget out borrowing, bound up in town because we're trying to, you know, allocate funds between three big projects because at the end of the day, it costs people money. But there's also like a group of of kids that are going
to come to that school and be like, I I can't do anything here or like this is gross and depressing. you know, or like when I explain to people like, well, like what's a nonADA problem? If you walk into that school, there is a place between the schools and
the hallway where the thing looks like a handrail, but it is actually a heating element. No one would do that today. It is just inviting people to get burned. >> But it's like it's just so stupid. >> Yeah. And the door. Oh my god. Every time I go in there, there's no bathroom.
That door is like like falling like the one >> Yeah. >> right into Alicia's office. >> Mhm. I mean, it's >> I used the bathroom there at a meeting. >> Yeah. >> And I walked out of the bathroom and there were like 25 adults being like, "Who the heck is this guy?" And first I
was like, "Good job. This is exactly what's supposed to happen." And then Norm was like, "That's a school committee member." And they're like, "Oh, okay." But like there's only one bathroom for all the adults that cannot function. Like we got to put some money into that building to keep it going
right now. And if we always think that like, oh no, we're going to knock down we're just not going to do it. So I want to have some some directionality to that decision that commits us to a certain direction but also leaves open the possibility that mana from heaven comes. And you
know, >> if if we get it down to 25%, then the $30,000 we spend to get an extra bathroom in there >> is not really >> Yeah, not really an issue. We've gotten the money back in another sort. So, I don't know. I mean,
>> so do you think we want to I didn't get to read it yet because I didn't have access. Do we want to plan on voting on it next meeting? Do you think that >> Yeah, if Laura >> would because it would be nice to have Laura here. Do you think >> Yeah. Yeah. And Laura Laura will automatically ask me a million questions. So, >> okay.
>> She's um but I mean I I agree with the idea. I'm on board with the idea. You know, I don't want to words smmith. I should probably read it. But besides that, I think it's >> Emily, what do you think? >> Yeah, we need to do something. So, >> it's just not tenable.
>> I agree. >> Can I Can I do something that's probably Would you like to make any comments as an actual Turkey Hill teacher? >> Would I? >> Yes. >> Sure. >> Do you want me to?
>> Yes. >> Did you go to Turkey Hill? >> I did. >> She did. The classroom I'm currently teaching in is where I had fifth grade. >> Okay. So, you you were like as close to an expert on Turkey Hill as existing. >> I mean, maybe. I don't know all the cobwebs and
everything, but what do you need to know, Tony? >> So, like, what do you what do you think about having a a plan on >> I think we need a plan. I think like you said, the wheels just keep spinning and spinning. My question with your plan or the plan for the memo, what what you're
planning to do is if we're rehabbing, where are we going to go? And where does that cost fit into the cost of a new building? How do you even is that part of the 25%. That's just my thinking. I >> I think that it would have to be the total cost of the project. And you know
like in looking at how other buildings have been rehabed. So like my wife works at Holy Cross. They have 180 year old or 150y old buildings that they have done this to. >> They've rehabbed as they've used it. And so what they did is, you know, one, so
they had the the biology building and the chemistry building and they built this like beautiful foyer in between and they have like all kinds of cool stuff. And so what they did is for two years all the people were in one building and two years all the people were in the other building and then they open it up and everybody got their own spaces. I understand.
>> So it's probably it would probably and like I'm not a builder so I don't know but my guess is it would be something like that or we would have like you know god forbid and I know you really don't want to hear this. >> Yeah, they're they're terrible. They're terrible. >> They're terrible. They're like >> hopefully we don't want to be here, >> right?
>> We're a game for anything. We just want to be taken care of. We want to if we want something that >> consistent heat, better windows, more bathrooms, just everything accessible for everybody. >> The other thing is if we can, you know,
like in looking through what buildings would look like now, building them modern, there are things in that building that we could not afford to build now. >> No. like some of the like and I know that they're kind of not great now, but like the courtyards, we could not afford
to do that in a new building. It would just be >> it would be square footage that would cost money that we don't really have in the building. It would be weird and it would be sort of wasteful. But since we already have it, >> maybe we rehab them, you know, like and make them into like little gardens or
something as opposed to like, you know, here what we did was we just put an addition on for the greenhouse. And so like there are some features in that building that are just not financially feasible anymore. And you know I also kind of think that like
and you can speak for this better than anybody. It's why I'm glad you're here and I get calling you for this reason because I know you went there. >> It's like there is something if you have a small town >> for all the people that are opposed to the Dunkin Donuts. >> The charact Sorry I called out the Dunkin Donuts. The character of the town
is preserved by having that building made beautiful and new, but keeping the parts of it that make it unique. >> We have to >> Yes and no. >> Other than the sinks that are weird >> and super low for adults to try and use.
>> It's super high for kids. Like my my son couldn't use them for third grade. >> Use them as an adult >> cuz it used to be 5 through eight. >> Yeah, it used to be a 5 through eight. So that building has not changed a ton since Mandy and I were there. >> Yeah. >> You know, like it honestly hasn't. But I
think I understand your small town aspect and keeping that building for that reason, but it's not serving us as an elementary school. >> Sure. >> And I think we have to look at it like
that as well. The purpose of that building is right now it's an elementary school and it's not serving its purpose as one. >> Yeah. >> Things have to change. >> So I think that's something I feel very strongly about and that's just that you know we whatever Renault or build we do
has to be appropriate for third through fifth grade. >> Right. Right. >> Cuz I could have said the same thing about Kids Kingdom. Like that is a staple of >> right >> the town too. You know I I think anything could be a staple of the town. It's how we upkeep it and it's how we move it forward into what we need to
>> and change. >> Man, there must be some kind of building subcommittee on Turkey Hill that you'd be really interested in being on. I'm just asking that. All right. So, uh maybe we'll have more discussion and then vote on it two meetings from now.
>> Two meetings. >> I just I just want to start moving. >> Yeah. Oh, I mean I'm fine voting on it soon. I just thought Laura probably should be here since she'll have lots of >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Of course. Um, thanks. Right. >> All right. I think that's the last uh
last discussion item. Uh, and then we now go to public comment for issues discussed tonight. Anybody got any public comments? Anybody even online? >> There are people online. Not see any hands. >> All right. Uh, okay. Reports from
subcommittee. Do we have any reports from subcommittees? Uh, I mentioned the PTO dance. We still have some tickets left, but flyers are going out very soon. So, buy your tickets. We still have some more businesses that have stepped up. Gatsby Grounds Company is our premier
sponsor. >> Excellent. >> And, uh, Janino Dentistry, so people are being really generous. I'm very excited about it. >> Um, I I did the subcommittees I am on, one has not met. No, two have not met. Um and uh uh tri board meeting I think
everybody watches that so or no one watches that but everybody listens to it. >> People watch it >> do they? >> Mhm. >> Oh >> yeah. Anyone online I mean come to the next try board and make your voice heard. >> Yes. >> Anybody online please please? We need a
person. >> It's just so much fun. I I feel like I feel like we're a hockey team. We have somebody in the penalty box. Like we just can't get the same amount of stuff done. There's a power play against us. Um >> here till May. So >> topics for future discussion. Anybody?
>> Anybody? Anybody? >> Oh yes. We need to set a date for the forum that we're going to have for the public regarding the FY26 budget that we discussed at tri.
>> Okay. Do we want to just do that next time? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's just do that next time >> because I know that the town manager wanted it done and I'd like to make sure that it gets done. >> Yes. Okay. >> So, we'll do that next next time. Uh, do I have anybody with a motion to adjurnn
at 9:28? >> I have a motion to adjurnn at 9:28. >> All right. Any seconds? >> I'll second. >> Yay. All in favor? Let's go.