##VIDEO ID:e52PjwJitt0## good evening it's 6:31 p.m. on Wednesday August 7th 2024 I'm going to call the lunenberg school committee special meeting to order uh this meeting will be broadcast later at a later date through the local access cable channel and on public access Facebook page we found access YouTube channel within 24 hours after the meeting the agenda list all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of this discussion not all items listed may be in fact discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for [Laughter] discussion the first item on the agenda is public comment oh dear uh I do want to remind the public of our school committee policy on public comment uh specifically that topics for discussion should be limited to those items within the school committee scope of authority the authority of the school committee primarily concerns the review and approval of the budget of the District's Public Schools the performance of the superintendent and the educational goals and policies of The District's Public Schools comments and complaints regarding School personnel apart from a superintendent or students are generally prohibited unless those comments and complaints concern matters within the scope of the school commit the authority at this time I'll open it up to public comment from the public plug my ears and talk and do you have your green light on I do okay thank you for that um I'm Coffman 27 Oak a great intro and reminder thank you chair Mr Brian uh okay as a marketing and Communications professional I received Myriad performance metrics uh related to social media channels I doubt it will surprise you that our data show Facebook as a forum for paid adver Facebook as a forum for paid advertisements and predominantly negative trending conversations in addition I work closely with Public Health researchers who are at a Breakneck Pace uncovering the detrimental effects of social media on individual and societal health and well-being this to say Facebook is not healthy the loudest ugliest Facebook voices do not speak for the majority of residents in lunenberg the cyber bullying that occurred targeting a recently departed hire would never be tolerated if it were directed at a minor or if the words TI were spoken in person lambasting a person's religion and political views is abor in any case and consider concerns about curricular or pedagogical methods or content should should have been directed respectfully to this leadership body which could have dealt with them appropriately to support our override campaign efforts I was part of a group who engaged in the discussing lunenberg Facebook group that was tough I did not like it and I honestly think that the in-person campaign efforts like talking to people at sporting events did more to advance our cause and public understanding of the issues that hand in the end voter turnout in Lunenburg was still pretty low though we did pass the override and as soon as it was over I once again happily uninstalled Facebook from my phone so while people like me may not be joining the dialogue on Facebook we are here we're paying attention to what happens in our town we're ready to stand up for due process including appropriate governance as it pertains to our schools through this body I recommend that this or consider action that Taps the work of the PTO and the family schools partnership Compact and that you dig deep to enact creative ways to better connect this district with its Community if we have healthy alternatives to Facebook then the bullies outrage will seem less dominating and we'll be better for it how about coffee with the superintendent or pizza night with the school committee I'd be willing to buy a few pizzas if it meant we could actually have a dialogue as opposed to this very necessary but unengaged Forum where the public may only comment and witness deliberations and there's no Avenue for really asking questions in the moment thank you in advance for considering ways to build a collaborative connection to all lunenberg residents not just parents lunenberg is better than its Facebook bullies and we need your help to drop them out and now I'm going to go switch to watching this remotely and help put my kids to bed thank you very much thank you from the public I have notified those on Facebook the video recording should have the audio at a later date and is being recorded by P so yes okay thank you all right so we will continue then Mr blad hi uh Dave blad I'm coming to you both as a citizen of lunenberg and also the chair of the green committee um uh I'm going to ask for your folks help and helping us as the green committee use up State funds um I uh we very much enjoy your former facilities manager and the amount he was involved with the green committee and the amount of funds we were able to provide for the schools uh we did such things as multiple lighting upgrades probably over $100,000 in lighting upgrades upgrades the mechanical systems variable speed drives new water heater boiler controls pipe installation appliances you know the nice new oven the cooler the refrigerator weatherization and training on how to use these systems were all done by funds through the green Grant with virtually no money having to be laid out by the school committee or the town we ask that you guys can you know help us help you and we need your help in putting together the projects or getting something done so that we can be ready for our fall Grant one of the things that I've talked about this before is the mini split project this project is prime the state wants to fund those all we need to do is make sure it's done the correct way and the correct wording is the right way and we believe that that will go over with flying colors we have up to $200,000 that we can ask from the state in this round alone that's available we would like to be able to use all of that $200,000 because they'd like to give us our little town of lunenberg that money so please help me help you help the town and get things done around that you would like to get done in the facilities in the business buildings and other upgrades that you need to keep these schools and and the student and the students in it happy Mr Mr chair can I just ask um because this is pertinent to the conversation that we had at our I believe at our last meeting have we resolved the issue around the reimbursements for the primary school Mini Splits Mr blat spoke at a schol committee meeting excuse me a select board meeting a few weeks ago um and and made a statement that there was reimbursement money available for Mini Splits and then we received conflicting information a couple of weeks ago in our meeting I'm just wondering if that's been resoled I would turn that over to superintendent if you want to respond I don't have an answer for you at this time I'll follow up with Mr he Mr can I ask a question sure um when are the fall deadlines what are we talking for fall so we are looking to try to have some we had sent some notices out to both to the facilities directors and other directors in town um that we were looking to have by August 15th the list of possible projects I know that's just around the corner I know that that that uh we you've had folks come through to try to look at projects um by September 15th we're looking to have the data together which we think is a much more viable number and then they have to be you know in early October we have to be able to submit okay you will be awarded the grants probably in February and as long as they're used within the year the money is ours okay how often does the green communities Tas fors meet we meet once a month once a month um Mr chair has Mr he been going to the meetings have we been in he's been invited to meetings he has attended you know several of the meetings um it's just it's a m matter of I I believe that's why I'm asking for help I believe that he's wor he's trying to get the his hands around the facility he's trying to get projects done but we need you guys your guys help to help to allow him or to direct him to try to use more of the use more of the funds that might be available I say Mr L was amazing at doing those little things so he pretty much for for about four years the only projects getting done were yours that's about it when is your next meeting our next meeting is going to be uh we're going to look to meet um two weeks not next Monday but the following Monday so after after 15 okay you still have another minute thank you I appreciate you asking answering questions no problem I I'll take as much time as you want to give me but that's if it's questions I'm happy to answer because like I say I need we need your help with with putting this together okay yeah thank you for your work on this on the green communities and also uh yeah we' definitely wanted Mr he to be the representative but obviously you can reach out to superintendent too myself with concerns or questions okay excellent thank you thank you for your time any of the public comment from the public Mr chair I think that there are people on the zoom who came here specifically for public comment and I think that there's a strong possibility that this needs to get resolved before we move forward or we need to tell them that it's not going to get resolved and if they want to speak in public comment to come here uh Zoom has a phone option but I I I don't think that the issue is a zoom issue some just asked if it's on yet hear thank you I I think that we either need to pause and resolve this issue or we need to tell people that we're going to take down zoom and come here and you know the protocol is clear are we able to unmute people so that they can make a public comment um there's no need to display it up here so I can unplug it and we can do our normal maybe I'm just wondering if if the option is available for public comment from it will be if I unplug this and we turn that back on okay then we won't be getting this and that okay let's try that and see if we get public comment from soon I think it's more important we hear the public comment sorry that was part of the a team do you want you want to ask if somebody from the zoom can see if they can unmute themselves just checking on audio can you hear us on Zoom that's yes we can I think I okay at this time we are having public comment and public comment is open to the public at this time as a reminder please do not uh List names of personnel and names of students from public please raise your hand or virtual hand if youd like to make public just TR different audio on yours is there anyone on Zoom that has a public comment you can unmute yourself raise your hand and raise your virtual hand not seeing any at this time just double checking just due to the technical difficulties earlier let make sure people have the opportunity for public comment if they wish is there anyone with public comment all right seeing none I'm going to turn it over to public comment from the committee is there any public comic I have a comment but I'm not going to comment if I have List have to myself how's that no that's still let's try that let's try that testing Dr is it coming through your computer it is yeah ex my microphone is the sound is do you want to share is off do you want to transfer host to me and I can let people in and maybe turn yours off it's got to be a way to the computer on Zoom they should give you audio options turn on your headphones in set of the speaker testing testing all right I think we're okay all right the shot Mr beard more may need a little more than three minutes when I was appointed in the school committee two years ago I outlined four things that I wanted to focus on as a school Committee Member in summary they were student achievement budget facilities and Community engagement and I think that you know and my microphone is blinking on me I think that um I think that uh We've made some progress in all those areas but not enough in any of them and as the events of this past weekend unfolded I was packing up to go camping with my son this weekend I started to think what is this going to do relative to moving the ball on student achievement facilities budget Community engagement and my honest assessment was probably not going to help although I can tell you that I didn't foresee what was actually going to occur um but I thought it would I thought something was going to happen because I've lived here for a long time and I can tell you point blank that racism in general intolerance in lunenberg is not a new thing one of my classmates commented on Facebook this weekend and he was right there were more people in my class that regularly used the nword than they were minorities in my class so this isn't a new thing but we've made progress in lunenberg over the years we've made extraordinary progress when I landed on the school committee I was introduced to the term seel social and emotional learning and I can tell you that when I joined I didn't know what seal meant I had no idea but I sat back and listened and I read the research that was presented to me and the clear facts about the climate in our schools and whether our students felt safe or not and accepted or not and I was convinced that there was an issue that needed to be addressed and there were a small group of parents that objected to it and they brought the issue multiple times to school committee meetings and there was an open and honest and respectful debate about it at the time I disagreed with those who had a problem with the seal curriculum uh but I have great respect for those people and and I you know I regularly speak with them at Town meetings and and those kinds of things what happened this weekend was not that and um it reflected a lack of curiosity about the process a lack of interest in the merits of the candidate who was selected a lack of confidence in the members of the community that participated in that selection a complete disregard for our actual curriculum that doesn't mention White Privilege or CRT anywhere in the curriculum or the role that the person was hired for it did bring up sexual preference [Music] religion all kinds of inuendo relative to postings that have been made online about that individual and surprise surprise that individual decided not to come here I've sat here for two years and boasted about lunberg and We've joked that I'm a tow and I know this place pretty well I didn't know it as well as I thought I knew it and I am thoroughly disappointed it was this was an unforced error I I probably frankly knowing what I know now would not have made the higher simply because of the other priorities that are on my list and we need to build consensus we need to build community we need to bring people together and I'm not going to convince anybody of My Views when it comes to social justice and frankly I lean to the left I lean into those issues but I'm not going to keep in anybody and frankly I don't have the time or energy to do it but I do want to move the ball forward and I'm very worried about our ability to retain and attract qualified Personnel I believe in Concepts like the mediche effect that says you need a diverse group to come to the best Solutions I believe that our students who are of in minority groups need to have people around them in the faculty that empathize with who they are and act or look like them and I'm worried that we will not be able to do that as well as we have in the past the upside of this is that I think I'm in the I'm in the majority significantly in the majority but there is an unsilent minority who feels very empowered this is my town and I'm not going to tolerate that and if that means stepping beyond the bounds of my position on the school committee I will do that but what occurred this weekend it was everybody's right to say whatever they wanted to say but it was not in good taste it was disrespectful of this committee and our leadership and people need to be called out and ask to defend their positions they're welcome to do it right here and on the zoom or anywhere else for that matter but get ready because I'm done with being silent and listening to that just because the rules say as a school committee member that I need to make my statements here people of a like mind need to confront this anywhere and everywhere thank you thank you Mr beor any other call comment from the committee I thank you I had a short statement um I encourage those who have specific concerns about curriculum new hires or other matters to engage Direct ly with our Administration rather than sharing concerns on social media direct communication with the administration helps ensure the concerns are addressed more effectively and constructively we can work together respectfully to ensure the best educational experience for all students in our community next item of the agenda is review and approve minutes we have regular session minutes from May 22nd 2024 revised in June 12th 2024 and a special session revised March 11th 2024 is there any questions or comments or Corrections I'll look for a motion of motions motion to approve the minutes of uh June 12th and March 11th second any discussion all all those in favor of the June 12th and March 11th minutes I I I those opposed any exensions thank you is there a motion for the May 22nd minutes sorry I can move to approve the um regular session minutes of May 22nd were those in our were those in the uh folder in the last meetings folder July 25th we put a hold on those for this meeting Mr beardmore was ABS that me y oh that was the one I had asked for changes to the minutes are we not and I head forwarded those to this I have it last revised on July 23rd yeah they have not been revised with the revisions I asked for so we can table those minutes I can withdraw my motion thank you all right moving along on the agenda uh review and approv warrants uh warrant total June 27 2024 to July 22nd 2024 was $453,000 515 $453,500 those there any questions concerns or comments on the warrants motion for that all right moving on to new business uh discussion on finance best practices so at this time I would um invite p and to the table good evening um I'm an pette president and CEO of TMS this of our associate fall Livingston who's been helping you out as you transition uh we just have a brief 90 minute presentation of uh what I sent out in a powerp and I'm not sure if we're going to uh be able to show that in display so that I can walk you through it or do I need to pull it up guess be question we have it a cop let's see we're going to see if we can get it up on the probably just connect to a comp that's not connected zo so while we're doing that I'll just give a brief background so we TMS was formed in 2006 uh prior to that I was uh the lead Finance examiner for what I finally call the the dreaded but now defunct office of educational quality and accountability uh if you remember the eqa uh and we formed TMS out of the uh the reviews and what we saw uh as I was a member of over 60 reviews of school districts in the state um I oversaw all the finance examiners for the agency and I did all the financial analysis for uh for the agency as a whole which entailed reviewing over 120 school districts in its uh as the agency existed um prior to that I've been a business manager Director of Finance and operations uh certified government accountant by the Association of govern accountants uh have the Desi licenser for school business administrator so this presentation what we have here is an Outsource that we've done for clients um from taking the best practices that we've seen from both the reviews from the agency from the work we've done uh with clients and from admittedly recommended best practices from the alphabet suit that you will see of organizations that we belong to uh regarding when it comes to budgeting and management of school finances in particular so now that I see we have that start the slideshow in the mean we have a Q&A you know I this is a overview but it's really I would like to have it as a discussion so we it's Q&A at the end but by all means Paul's going to jump in regarding both from his experience and what it is that's going on here in Lunenburg uh and just have a discussion regarding it and uh let's hit the road so as I said uh we're going to be covering budget development financial management and any other information that might come up as far as like reporting and policies and what have you so these practices I was saying in the next slide are coming from the organizations that were members of Association of government accountants government Finance Officers Association asbo masbo and honestly from audits from both the reviews that we've done and audits of our existing clients because Auditors will come in and as part of their review they'll in their management letters they'll put in recommendations from various you know clients that they've reviewed things that they've seen operations that could improve management of districts cities and towns as well so to start off with as far as like budget development goes there are primarily and this is somewhat esoteric there are three concepts when it comes to budget development there's needs based budgeting which again States it's pretty obvious what are your needs you know and you end up presenting the budget to meet the need you have level service which is what are your current servic and what is it going to take to fund your level services and then I listed as third and it's one of the options that I would never like to see done it's very uh drasic would be the level funding which is you know no no room for increase based on known contractual obligation Andor um you know inflationary factors so from our point of view you know we recommend stating the obvious that you do needs was budgeting and believe it or not know we we had clients that when we've gone through the budget development process and when the superintendent Administration sees what the total increase would be the sticker shock effect is we can't go public with that and our response is why you know the community needs to know because your decisions and your needs are based on data which are the data being Beyond test scores so what is it that you truly need to provide the inducation in your community Okay then if it if it's a that you get the sticker shock that's when the budget development process and the negotiations you have with city or town officials school committee as well to start prioritizing what it is that you want to do when it comes to putting forward the recommended budget to the town next slide please so we also when it comes to building a budget you know one of the things in the uh workshops I've done and you know I've always asked School commity members you know how much does it take to run your schools and sometimes you know I've seen growth I'll say in your colleagues that uh more often than not a lot of the times they've gone just to the town number you know but as we all know there are grants and revolving accounts and there are expenditures that are on the town side that are that go to funding the school district so we have here just a brief slide about the have the school commit these local budget your other funding sources and then what how you expect is on the town and the TR cost of your education are the sum total of those three so you know the it's divided really into the two sections what the school committee controls and the expenses on the town side that for La the town controls now there are some organizations some towns that end up shifting quite honestly all the expenses over to the school side including things like the health insurance retire Insurance what have you and their their view is you know if you're going to be hiring more people it's just you know you're going to end up having to be the one to ultimately You Know cover that if you're Insurance costs are going to go over budget but either way what's key to this and it's not here and I know Paul and I have had discussions regarding um the ways the communication relationships between the school and the town side is key to success we all know that there's only a an a finite amount of money in the in the budget pie here B and anywhere and stuff but let's have a discussion as to what is the priorities are as a ho So when you say that you should put forth the needs based budget are you saying that from the perspective of a business manager who is concerned about dollars and cents or you saying that as somebody who has taken a leadership role in the school which forces you to recog recogniz local political Necessities I would say honestly um even though we're coming from the finance guy um it shouldn't be financed your needs are based on what your building administrators program directors and what it is that you know are needed for the students here in lunenberg so what is the cost of that for your school district you obviously the finance side would be working with the administration as okay so we're going to need to adopt a new curriculum in in math okay so then let's start Gathering that information and Building Together are there other funding sources out there that we're going to use to potentially off potentially offset these costs so you know I'll be honest with you the dollar shouldn't drive it should be your priorities as a community what is it that you want for Education here in lunenberg that drives your budget but if your if your community's answer to what we want out education is cheap then it's hard to say that those things are different you want I think um I always thought of myself starting as a teacher and educator as an educator that came with a business perspective and certainly recognizing what you're saying but also recognizing the fact that you were the board in town responsible for the children's growth and development and taking that perspective ultimately first obviously reality is hit and choices have to be made but you have a responsibility to look at it from what they need you also then have the responsibility to look at it from what does the town need to hear about and what do they need to hear would be lost if they made and you have to bring then bring a budget into that level but I think sometimes it's forgotten that it goes on so long that people forget sometimes what the real needs are and we just get into a a mindset of well they want cheap well you know maybe maybe the community is changing and I think another aspect that I've heard Happening Here in lunenberg that is critical in any Community is the planning component I've heard there's a a new budget committee that's starting to think forward I think whether it's the school department the highway department or the Police Department fire any Town Department everyone has to be at the table to understand that we are one group pitted against another we are as said earlier the community of lunenberg and the community of lunenberg has to passionately say what do they want together and if if we're looking forward to you know unfortunately often time oh thank often time the um the increases that are necessary that are happening at our own homes we have to start to consider what are the needs for the community we can't function in a school department without a good fire department without a good Police Department without a good Highway Department a good health department all those different kinds of things and they all have needs and we all count if we have 10 hot dogs we're not going to feed 11 children we all understand that but how do we come together and say in a planful way what's the financial plan for the district most districts come forward with a financial plan that is oh they put they put out too much we have to pull them back they cut it and finally somebody feels they' won a lost or actually nobody feels they've won a lost what if we had a way that we were looking at a 3 to 5e cycle and talking about how do we balance these needs across and how are we upfront with our community and have a conversation with the community about how do we lay these ideas out we need a new library we need a new school we need we need to add a curriculum we need a new health officer that we need you know how how are those things done in a planful thoughtful way for the community's planning aspect to me that's the critical piece of what's often lost when we look in Massachusetts and in New England at the annual fiscal year budget it's constraining it's confining it produces you know tension and fights we start planning for our own child's college education when at birth you know the the first $25 check goes into a savings account what do we do for a town because we have to support all aspects of the town which the schools are very critical vital one obviously that's why we're all here but there are other pieces too and it can be done thoughtfully if you look at strong communities that have done this in the past they plan three to five years they talk about well we're going to do an override now but we we really think that's going to last for three or four you know maybe even five years and the first you know we're going to have maybe a little ex but that's when we you know might buy a new dump truck we might buy some some extra books or a new curriculum or something and then gradually that starts taking over the staff pieces that start to rise up against us does that work yeah it does have you done this I done in other communities definitely and the communities that are very successful has it been communities like ours with our culture you're you're no different than most of these others they had to start somewhere El this is a big it would be a big budgeting cultural shift planning isn't as much of a shift I think it would be well I mean it sounds like you have the I understand we want to of course I think though this it sounds like this budget committee that's formed would be a key Avenue to potentially start to get I mean we have a we have a structure in lunenberg to do what you're talking about our Charter calls for our town manager to to publish and present a fiscal forecast for the town that includes needs input from all of the Departments and for many years it was done on a proor basis it was total abortion without any consideration for needs my first year I believe on the finance committee we said no the need we need needs input on this the superintendent actually did more or less what you're describing and all hell broke loose um you know I I so I I I understand your point Y um but I I think that it has to be more than there has to be a there has to be a community movement behind the this it's not five members of a school committee a superintendent saying this year we're going to submit a three-year plan because it we've done it and it hasn't worked it actually has it has been attempted I respect that and I I appreciate that and applaud you for you know uh say tempting it but it's a thing that gets to the you the cliche of communication here to you know it's just got to be on the te and you know regarding your we had one of our clients in the western western part of the state that actually actually you know we were sitting around and you know I was at this meeting where it was as Paul's mentioning the DPW director the chief of police the fire chief and they're saying you know we don't even put forward our needs you know it's like so our our my point and again I'm talking about you know my other story quick aside I'll finish this one first was that uh you know we said well how is it then that the those that decide to meeting know what exactly need is we all need to be realistic that the need needs are going to outweigh what it is that the community could potentially fund but the needs need to be known out there that's all we're saying is like everybody needs whether it's School DPW Council on enging what have Stu you know so you know we were saying to the the town officials at this meeting in this Western Community was you know we're not doing anyone a service here by not even getting communicating to the town fathers to the the first Selectmen the you know the the board of Selectmen the of Finance regarding what it is that the needs are for all the Departments so State the needs it's important to State the needs even if the town doesn't want to meet the needs State them so that voters are aware correct and I think I heard you say it at the start that that's way you're kind of starting at your needs based budgeting and then go from there correct yes and then my other story I'll say is that I'm the son of a 35e police officer who was chief of police and in the city in western Mass and uh I was very very interested in the city politics and I would go during budget development time and he would go to and present his budget and then he would go and be sitting at the school Department's budget and the Council on Aging budget and you know and his view was said because if we don't get the word out that we are as posing one Community here supporting all of us and he was somewhat tongue and- cheek regarding some of his things and the police officer sense of humor to some extent and he would say he would say look if you don't fund the school's budget regarding you know after school activities or what have you and stuff and this Inner City Community you would say I'm going to need my overtime budget increase where do you want your dollars to go do you want an enrichment for kids to keep them off the streets or do you want to pay cops over time you know so is that you know that's kind of that stuck in my mind you know he was a unique Chief you know he was a unique police officer you know is very yeah so culture is a very difficult thing to change but it has to start somewhere and I have a sense that this community is a changing community that it's it's changing its its thought process and you know I think maybe it's time maybe it's ready to it has to start somewhere and it's not easy it's hard work but I think you're right I think the the the challenge and this is Tim of balance and ultimately we all know that we're going to get down to February and March and we're going to be arguing over much smaller numbers than what the needs based budget is um I think the reality is is that we all kind of haven't gone through what we just went through the last year there's a bit of PTSD associated with that but also the reality that that's where we're going to be spending our time and energy again right is is sharpening pencils based on limited funds and we are in a changing community that I think that that's true but we can't leave those frankly the needs that have been articulated amongst the taxpayers that don't have the economic waywith all to fund the total needs of the Town cannot be ignored and cannot be left behind and and that is you know really where the rubber meets the road right we we deliberated this past year around an override number that number could have been a lot bigger number some year would argue it should have been um but it was based on there was some political calculus associated with that right it wasn't based it was based on where we were relative to funding you know to a funding line on a graph right it wasn't really based on me and but nevertheless we were able to get more than we otherwise wise would have gotten had we not taken that approach so I hear what you're saying I I just I'm a little too grounded and in the reality of the recent past sure and yeah once reality happens you know then all bets are off I I we get that it's just you know I'm coming from even you know say even though the numbers guy the finance guy and stuff is like it's more the communication of what it is that the needs are you know that it need you know uh it needs to get up there you know and so stating the needs so at least the needs are out there the voters or the town chooses not to meet the needs at least they've been stated and it's obvious what is not being met as opposed to just assuming school gets as much money as last year just be happy with that you guys are doing fine so I I think it makes sense the cultural change that this would require is terrify sure absolutely AB that's why I'm glad you're there and I'm here may we go to the next slide so now we're on to we're all set with the budget development and that was a great discussion I was that's one of the best discussions I have to tell you that I've had regarding you know I usually spend the least amount of time on the budget development because people can look yeah we know we're processing we're going to get what we get whatever but have up to you so uh now we're talking budgets built developed approved now the hitting the road and so some of the things that we like to see are administrators with budget Authority they're the ones that are in charge of managing their program schools departments budgets we've gone into districts where you know uh the the the way it worked was you know the business office had final say over everything and yes I understand and you know some what can keep business managers up at night are you know budgets running off the rails for whatever reason and quote unquote lack of controls well there are some things that we'll get to Some solid simple internal control structures that should alleviate any of those concerns but one of our former vice presidents who was a former curriculum director would always like to say you know the business office shouldn't be making educational decisions and we've gone into District where that's been the case and it's like our job in the business offices make sure that decision makers building administrators with budget and program Authority program administrators with budget Authority grants overseers what that they have access to whether it's direct access through the financial accounting system or they get reports from this the business office to their budgets and they make the decisions even to the point of I'm talking like budget transfers we would have going in districts would see you know potentially their textbook line is you know $2,000 negative and then you know business manag we would be told oh the business manager would then just take the money out of the general supply line and my respons is always well but who am I to know that the business that principal might want to take it from their other instructional materials line or something and us it you know so we shouldn't be the ones making those types of decisions so it is important that administrators with budget Authority have access to as accurate and as realtime information as possible it goes back to 1993 with educ education reform law that that spoke to 30 years ago that you know cost center manages as I call them should have control over their budget and to this day as Andy says many times it's the business manage of making the decision that can't be our job is to give them the report so they know what money they have and hold them then accountable to spend within that amount of money it's a different again old shift shift to culture and then just some of the legis things purchases of goods and services should be done using prior proof purchas that to me is one of the things is a very simple budgetary control measure and you know again everything that is non salary as far that can be should be done on you know pre-approved purchase orders and I know it sounds like a you know could be a tedious process but then again it goes to you know one of the things that I always like to say is school school administration School District school committees we should be able to run one report and that report should be from July 1 to June 30th and if that last number on the lower right hand corner of the last page is a positive number we're good if that number is in the red or has a bracket around it negative hour St then we need to talk it doesn't necessarily mean that you know we're in a in a crisis it would just require you to review whether there are incumbrances that are no longer needed you know are there other funding sources that we need to you know the funds haven't come in yet so you know there are other things and stuff but you know for management purposes it really should be one report run for any time July 1 to June 30th you know and that's the same thing with goes to the next thing regarding contractual salaries being incumber encumbrances in salaries again when once as Clos as salaries are always in flux because of whether it's Personnel changes people come and go maternities or what have you but if you have a solid encumbrance system for your salaries it's that type of thing where you know I like to call it the Ron poal method of budgeting you know you said it and forget you know it's a thing where you should be able to for all intent and purposes just keep running that one report anytime you want and see you know so it goes to again very systematic approach to how it is that you do your your salaries ideally the encumbrances should be through the accounting system some en counting systems aren't set up to do so you know but it's it's something where there are other way it can be done you know outside MXL what that is something we're putting in place for this coming year we have not had it in place in lber um and you know many of these things of the Control process between the the town offices and the school I have to mention that the new town account is outstanding and very very wonderful to work with and understanding of the needs of all not just school department can I just ask a quick question and bear with me this probably to sound like a stupid question and hopefully when you talk about incumbrances I think of encumbered funds as we move from one fiscal year to the next that's not what you're talking about here it it's both well the one fiscal year to the next that you have to encumber the fund so that it's charged the correct year right um but the encumbrance can happen during an actual fiscal year so it's an encumbrance is a reserve it's sense of you are you are committing These funds that I get paid $60,000 a year out of this one salary line so once the budget starts there's your original budget of the $60,000 in that line item you haven't paid me yet but we know you're going to pay me so kind of f exactly you know so that so there's $660,000 encumbered so then that means that your available balance on that line is zero so how is that different from what we're doing now because we get these quarterly reports that say you know I'm just making ridiculous numbers but you know custodians in the high school there's $300,000 for the year and we're kind of bouncing the ball along the year we get a quarterly financial report that says we're over we're under we got a transfer funds is that is that different than what you're it sounds like based on the fact that you're implementing incumbrances for payrolls that process for those ctly reports is very manually intensive okay and has to be done in a sense off the off the system when you have a robust system like munas you should let the system do the work okay fair totally absolutely there a reason munice isn't doing the work for us now well we have not been using it as fully effective and the new town accountant is aware of that wants to move in that direction and ultimately understands that you as a school committee you are responsible for management of your budget not not town offices and not others and and you know the report that I gave you with a transfer a few months ago you know very in very rough times but you know will be a similar kind of report that you get a year-to DAT report that will show what has already been spent from your budgeted amount what is incumbent meaning it's already committed and what's left so that when we're making transitions or transfers it will be based on what's spent plus the incumbrance what's committed to change that and and I think that's those are some of the things that just I'm sort of it should be a the fact that it's currently manual right but we're bringing into process here you had mentioned Excel uh for budgeting uh we had questions from the finance committee and other members of the public is there other avenues of doing budgeting or is it very popular for Excel to be used can you just expand on that munus has a budget development module that you know all their clients of ours use um some clients of ours still use the Excel because of whether it's just the cliche of it's the way it's always been done um we like to and and one of the struggles with munist it's it's the fact of if you look and see like our all funds approach we end up showing if you know just a brief description is you know we have our budget documents that we use a lot of times are like 8 and a half by 14 paper because we'll end up having the entire budget an all funds column the local appropriated column and then every single Grant and revolving account that the district has and how is it that we're going to fund to quotequote back into that local budget column the the versions of mun that I have used does not have that necessar ability to present it that way so it's one of those things where districts might want to do some of their budget development in something that is more easy to manipulate and then upload it into mun other districts that we've worked in mun's budget development module they find effective enough to give the information that they have so it comes back to the culture as to what is it that you want to see as far as when time comes to present your budget and one of the one of the drivers for that question is is that we have a lot of folks you know particularly on the finance committee that are very analytical but other members of this committee as well the data in in Excel is you know point in time data and you can't do trending analysis or that kind of thing there's no historical data generally right it's very limited in terms of any kind of analytics that you can bring to bear to really understand what's happening over over a period of time and you know so I think part of the ask there is is it something that you know can we can we use tools that allow for exporting data in a way that some level of analytics can be applied I can tell you clearly today we don't have that in our current Excel approach are the districts that you know they'll and it's somewhat of I say the D World they'll take uh their information lies in Excel and I should say in mun excuse me they'll export the information in munus and munus has three years of History you know so they'll export to three years of History they'll end up putting it into we'll end up putting it into an Excel document so that you can do exactly you're saying the trend analysis we'll end up adding the column for whatever fiscal year we building and then we'll put it back into you know for that the town officials can then use and the problem you know one of the problems that we experienced this year is the you know the a the human factor right and and you know manipulating multiple Excel spread sheets and Version Control and hidden fields and you know like we we lost a lot of hours just based on that that's why using the system is the strongest way to stay on track because when you don't use the system as effectively as it can or should be used you got got common eror human error talk human the wreck and PO process does that align with our current practices um lunberg doesn't have a requisition module uh in their munist but they do uh no they um they do have a PO module so people put in POS and you can do a workflow of approvals from the uh uh you know the admin cost put in the the PO it then is approved by the cost center administrator the principal then it can go to the superintendent if can go to the businessman you know you can do that workflow and that's something we're adjusting as well coming down into the the key thing with that process regarding and we you know our big thing is the approval so if there is not you know I'm going to say you know I'll Grant some places as Paul's describing might not have the form of requisition component to it it is more so the you know some people go in and just start writing and typing in an actual purchase order you know which is fine as long as that workflow that Paul's describing you have the levels of approval to get it to the point of okay we the purchase order has now been reviewed by the levels that we require for approval and then we click you know approve this batch of purchase orders and then the formal purchase order gets generated with an official number ATT text and and you check the approval process allows it to be checked for for media procurement regulations of chapter 30b and if any requirements are there and all those kinds of things we'll be reviewing those with the leadership of the u schools that's fall this before school starts also this go again it's very to much talk about this so our big thing is the prior approval you know we have in this is where District get themselves into trouble uh you know and I've had people in business office staff have come in to me and said that you know I got this invoice but there's no purchase order so you know we had superintendent to say that we need to send that those goods back you know if they're going to be that much of a you know a stickler about it I'm as much as I want to be a stickler about it it's you know to me I I always say that's part of your valuation of that administrator they've then done an appr purchase that circumvented the approval process you know but the thing about it is you know I always talk to this so let's play this out so we've got an invoice of the goods that have already been received you're going to end up having a person go in through that whole purchase order approval process the purchase order that gets generated but doesn't get sent to the vendor it's just going to ultimately then be canceled because you're going to end up paying that bill so it shouldn't happen but when it does you know obviously that's an administrative thing to talk about but you know it's a thing of just okay have them sign off on approving make sure that there are funds available in the line you know and then go forward to it but you know uh one of the things again my father mentioned to me I'm a big fan of the seven PS of the military of proper prior planning prevents pretty poor performance and there's a different version right that's right that's right SCH so but all kidding aside it truly is you know it's something that when I first entered this industry he he he told me that he said and it's something that when you think about it you know and purchase orders are they're just a budgetary control method you know so they can be estimate you can use blanket purchase orders if you know for your custodian meance if they know they're going to go to the hardware store and they spend in a year $66,000 is what they've gone for various hardware supplies you know go ahead and do a purchase order to Joe's Hardware for $6,000 because then you know that you've at least have that money reserved so then it goes back to my July 1 to June 30 report so that you know if you've got any flexibility elsewhere or if you need to start having discussions about the dreaded budget freeze or what have you and stuff so you know it's it's just a a simple budgetary control system on the Personnel so this is where some of the things in in places in uh munice has in their system and all the systems have some VAR what called a Personnel control Ledger and honestly it's again a thing where you know the way I describe it is you have 200 staff there should be a designated number assigned to each staff member so position number one could be the superintendent could be the business manager all the way down to position number 200 which is the last position higher it has so much information potential in there as far as tying it to salary to budget line to job description to things yourself where when time comes when you're dealing with communities that are have cly very transient staff as far as the comings and goings it helps you just quite asly keep track because honestly it can be a bit of a bear to keep track of the the number of staff changes that occur during the year and so you know when you have a Personnel control system in place you end up knowing that you know we have 200 staff and so this year's budget development we're going to be asking for two more staff that Personnel control L should then now just only go up to 2002 you know yes do we have the staff munus has the capability I have not heard that we use it if we have um would we have the capability I I think it might be a module that they may own but I don't think it's used as effectively I know I think we have employee numbers but I don't know whether those are assigned by Unice or whether they assigned that's that's an issue of of that Personnel database that you need to effectively do negotiations to do budget planning to do anything um really needs to be expensive from you know first name last name all the way to Family Dog emergency contact you know and some critical things in the middle of what's the higher date well the higher date could be different than the you know the seniority date the higher date as a par professional could be different than the movement into the uh senior column and according to what your contracts say the seniority could include the parad so those things when you're doing budgeting and doing negotiations to have those all in one Personnel database which we I'm not we we have it all in in some different places but it would be nice to bring it together at least even in Excel or certainly in a human you know human Capital Management module like it's called how how big of a project would that be to implemented it's a it's a it's a daunting task we' started it's we have we have we've started pulling some of that together in Excel uh in in Excel yes the challenge what ends up happen it's like one of the things where you almost have to I have to say pick and choose your battles because to end up doing it you know you really need to make sure to State the obvious that it's done right at you know because we've got uh we've got one client and it's always seems to be West part of that's you know that tried to use a Personnel control Ledger and it is one of the messiest things that I've seen to the point where I've actually had to tell them we have to table this and unfortunately have to go from you know the longevity file the higher date file the you know degree file and stuff to compile it all on one so it's the Santa's list you have to check it once check it twice check it five times that is good um if created an Excel is it can you bring it to munus at a later munus yes munus does have the they what would end up happening is you know you would have it in Excel and then you know again engaging with their implementation Consultants what they call them stuff could be to say here's our our own version of a Personnel control Ledger you know and then they would end up sending you their formation their format to you know and it's it's when districts have done it you know and I'll say even this District that struggled with it you know they did exactly what you're talking talking about it's really just moving columns to get in the form that they want to then ultimately upload is there a cost associated with that an extra cost possibly I would bet there is there seems to always be you know is if it was created within Unice is that uh format that is then we can export that to excel at a later date yes and that's the way it would end up happening and again I'll use this District as the example where you know they when we first were hired I asked a question because I knew they were using me and I said okay so we're about to begin budget development can I export the Personnel control ler absolutely so I went in and I looked at this and there were names that were still there of people that weren't you know uh weren't actually in the district they weren't getting paid but they were still listed you know and so there were positions that you know when I was talking with the administration we haven't had that position at the middle school for 5 years you know so it's things like that where it's like you know there still there so there was there's lots of potential cleanup if it's not properly maintained so yes you can ultimately once it's done you know we actually talked with this District about you might want to quite honestly start from scratch you know and and do it and then yes it would be a multi-year potentially process to get it correct and we'll ultimately end up living in the world of excel which is fine it's just not ideal we're always striving for the ideal the advantage of your size is that you you don't have a you know a lot of employees hopefully the budget in the future will do that but um you know right now you don't have a lot of employees so it it's easier to look at and initially start and set up you said this three times in three different topics I want to make sure that I understand you think we should be working in munis as a starting point have to use the system so if we have stuff in Excel convert it over making new stuff starting unit to the to the extent that unit has the capability of doing it okay I mean sometimes like in terms of the way you looked at your budget it may not might do it in a different format and I don't even know how effective it's in place in it goes to like to like I'll bring up again back to to repeat regarding the budget development where I mentioned how it is that we do things we we end up exporting the historical data out of M into Excel the school district three of the school districts that we work with that like like our format we have that historical data for comparison purposes we then have the next year's what we call the all funds column we have the the ultimately local column and then we have all the grants and revolving accounts that we have that are assigned to each of the lines in the this these District's budget and then you know we back in so that again it's the whole concept of transparency of saying you know our ask is $28 million that's the all funds number but we're asking from the town for 25 million because we've got three million dollars and all these other funding sources to my knowledge from the versions of M that I have used it does not have that ability to for Budget presentation purposes but ultimately when time comes as far as it goes you know so that's where we do the exporting of historical data so that the town officials and the city in one case City officials can look at the budget will input the school approved budget into the colum mun so that the city and town officials can do their analysis what the school was asking for as part of the total City Town budget you know and then the school committee will in a sense take the Excel version and then have their discussions when we're looking at all the funding sources available how is it that the administration is presenting they're using their Title One title two Etc you know and to then get to the number that ultimately be asked for the uh from the town but the the import is to with a robust system that that is such as munis or any believe we use M we use a lot of other systems we're not here selling M on anything Stu but when you have an accounting system as robust as it is you should let that do the work for you it takes out the human error component that you know a couple specific examples um right now the entire teacher payroll is done up the town hall so any changes that we want to have made we send have to send it in writing in email we have to get back that it was made we send that it's like a second set of files exist which you know as the superintendent being The Keeper of the records by law and you being in control of your budget it's awkward that we are't you know putting that in and maintaining that ourselves again in speaking with the new town accountant he understands that and you know we're talking about ways we can become effective that way a simple thing like closing a PO when a PO is done and it's paid the invoice is gone we have to send an email to town hall to close the PO and then we get an email back that says the PO was closed when I was first here you know back in February and we started doing something that all these emails come flying to them I'm like oh my God I mean that the Effectiveness and efficiency for the town hall and for us seems very redundant and it's costing the town a lot of money and wasted and cost of and cost of time and yeah management time that could be spent better spent children I want to be sensitive to time we got a big agenda here tonight but I I I want to dig into this topic just a little bit um we have statutory responsibilities when it comes to finance but in lunenberg we share a lot of the operations with a different Authority in town um we are also on the state books when it comes to things like how the state calculates per pupil spending the costs associated with what happens at Town Hall are a portion to our per pupil cost when calculating Chapter 70 and all this Jazz so it so we have a stake in this but not necessarily any Authority in it the way our town is currently set up at least that's my level of understanding and there are there are a couple of issues that that I'm curious about right number one is from a statutory standpoint are we caught in a catch 22 GE you know like the the system that we have currently was put in place over a number of years there's a history some of it's not good um but but I feel like we are being told this is the way it is but from a statutory standpoint we control our destiny that's correct and and I'm having a hard time kind of resolving that in my head here's a here's a good example reimbursements the town has a reimbursement requirement if a if a uh if a teacher goes out and takes a class and submits that expense once the C class is complete for a um for a professional development class A paid invoice is not sufficient in the town of lunenberg for reimbursement a credit card statement or aank statement from the teacher is required for that reimbursement that's my understanding because the town wants to know that the teacher actually paid the bill it didn't go into some sort of financing or whatever and and my view on this is who's the town for tell a teacher how to manage their own finances um I feel like this is something that could easily be dealt with by the school committee or through a contract negotiation or that kind of thing but we're at the mercy of the town when it comes to these policies and and I I don't know what to do about it you know like is it do we have to divorce ourselves or or or or can we can we Implement policy that suits our our needs so if I can just in that specific example I can say that that's not even Town policy that's even above that would be an audit well it's also I want to say it's got I was inurance and what they used to call the Yellow Book Massachusetts regarding requirements is like you need to show approval an invoice showing that a teacher went doesn't necessarily mean that that teacher you know that reimbursement then could go to somebody else so you need to have an associated credit card cancel check or something showing that I went to Paul Livingston's professional development class for $200 here's my credit card statement showing payment to Paul Livingston $200 you know so there is there are the let the requirements statutorily regarding expenses needed to show you know some form of payment that's Massachusetts statute pretty that every state would have it but yes i' say Obviously here because it doesn't exist in the corporate world like that it's painfully simple and straightforward if only we were in the cor okay but back to my larger Point like you know to what extent do we have the ability to implement our own policies when it comes to some of these procedures so well I would say honestly with with all due respect to your role it's procedural so the discussion should be occurring with superintendent business office and town manager Town accountant regarding how can we effectively do our jobs because that's what we're talking about really here this is a best practice about administrative wise obviously you oversee Administration oversee the schools so hence it's a very great discussion to have but you know we're talking procedures and the the workings of the systems that are in place un the the communications with the town the school that then would make every administrator here better at doing their jobs more effectively efficiently to then communicate any and all information finan and that it's related to you it's about reasonableness you know while collaborating together um specifically why can't we use munice the way that we want to use munice right now you talked about about how you're having to make the PCL system in Excel because we can't munis why not what's what's stopping us from using munus in the way that we need to use munus in order to effectively use it if if that PCL example in particular it is a very labor intensive undertaking so it's a it's a it's really a matter of tasking staff with that we okay but if we wanted to we could use munus in that way if they have the module I don't know whether they have the module today after as we're finally closing out this past year I've started spending more time with that and I'm about to ask what can we get out of the payroll system IM munus okay and how much of that might be in the human management module in order to stop from and maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised that this more than you know I might think okay but we would have access uh we don't have access to the human Capital Management right now I hope to over time the go the goal being should we go down this road we would definitely need access to that exactly next slide more of the same again things we've already talked about about the encumber inces know after each payroll run you would see the incumbrance amount reduce and the expense expended amount increase so this gets to it again from where it is as far as your Ro in the sense of I say your section 3,000 of your school policy that's where your financial management policies lie so obviously anything that we talk about uh we would want to obviously ensure that it's following your school Community policies you know but procedurally these are the things that we're talking about when it come time comes for operations management and then including reporting which is the next Slide the oh go the the other thing that I'm hoping we can at at Le include more effectively is your Desi's chart of accounts has 1,000 2,000 3,000 4,000 5,000 7,000 and 9,000 I can remember those numbers 1,000 is school committee you don't have any money 1 12200 is superintendent 1400 is Business Management 2,000 is all instructional special ed regular Ed whatever 3,000 is nursing Athletics and transportation um 4 000 it's all your facilities utilities custodians facilities and I go on and all you probably know them but the way we function here is basically through org and object I get lost in orgs and objects they're all over the place and there's not a consistency to them so even if the town has to use organ objects I would like to start bringing in the 1,000 2,000 3,000 because that's easily understood if if we're making a trans for within um you know 3,000 for transportation you first look there and try to move the money from there within that or 4,000 and it's just the ORS and objects make your head SP you need to go back up a paragraph I fil I that's right or or is organization so it is like every line on a problem is assigned an organization in units and it's this it's an you know certain number digit uh assign and so that you know know like the nursing at the the middle school has its own organization object is a term in the Uniform Massachusetts accounting system that the municipal side need to follow which are it's their chart of accounts in a sense so objects are the expense side so if your reports um I live in both RADS so 5100 is salaries 5200 is contracted services so you know what you want to see which I know does exist here is the crosswalk it's just a matter of the Integrity of the Desi codes which is you want to be able to have run the or object for superintendent salaries that then would have a crosswalk to a chart of account number that would show the Desi of assign one so you know that exists it's just the Integrity of that is what we're talking about making sure that for your purposes our purposes being able to live on the Desy side of does it currently it had like the report that so it it has it it's one of those things to again where you know like to focus more on it exactly so the the example that you just gave of going to going away from the organ objects they can still be in the they can still be in a line they can still be next to it but to focus on looking at the 1100s 1200s 30,000 so today and we have to do our end of the year report in that way today when we consider I know this is covered in your slides but when we consider a a line item transfer because we're UND spent in substitute teachers at the high school but we're overs spent in substitute teachers at the middle school that's an organizational lens right but it is important to a certain degree because we have admin different sets of Administrators that are responsible for managing the budget within those areas and we want some level of accountability and at least visualization of where these funds are going and and the way I view this is not all instruction it's math at the middle school or whatever right so so draw categories when you would see a transfer list you would see 3200 100 56 7 whatever with the name of the account that says you know uh nursing at Primary School nursing at Turkey Hill school so it would be associate with an account description as well as that number when I talk about the broad number it's just that broad category but there are many things that Brak that down into the specifics that you're talking about okay I guess I'd have to see an examp to really understand it's not it's not hitting me come to the office I will you I will okay so we talk about like the the your policy states cor reports corly reports are fine again there's nothing at all wrong with it if you're comfortable with that as far as information goes that's fine I I want of you know if you have an accounting system with some Integrity to it you know uh then there's nothing saying that you couldn't get monthly reports you know honestly it's a thing where you know again I'll say we've had some clients where their their system has had some issues but to adhere to their school Community policy we had one client down in the Southshore where there were negative incumbrances showing up but they had to get it in school committee packet and you know our staff were struggling like what am I supposed to do like well it's the balance of including the school feeding packet but when time comes to report we just have to point out say you see that that negative incomer that's an error you know but you know we're going to we're addressing it we're looking into and stuff so it's just a matter of you know what's the Comfort level you have as far as keeping up to date with the financial information you have what do you recommend I we most of our clients that we're in you know it varies but I'm a big fan again of monthly monthly with the understanding of if it requires training for the school Community as to how to read reports because you don't want to necessarily end up creating more work for the business office to end up manipulating reports and everything you know uh next week I'm doing a training with another District of ours regarding how to read reports so that they can just this district has the business office we're running three different reports of their local budget and you know we've kind of said enough is enough um let's do a training on how to read a financial report from your accounting system and let's all agree that is going to run that one run one report at this point in time would that be too cumbersome well not again so to my bones but you currently have a policy that's so you would need to go to your policy we're not set up to deliver on it and and we're also all volunteers that meet twice a month so I just I think that what requires in sure absolutely okay next this gets to to the discussion of the budget transfers um one of our recommendations as I mentioned in there is within as it'll say like Paul mentioned those high order Desi function codes if there are transfers within it's not altering the Integrity of the budget so Administration we recommend Administration should be able to do that transfer without school committee approval if there's a transfer between say the function codes a 1,000 to a 2,000 or the the I won't ask Paul to repeat the list you know um you are altering the int what the intent of the original budget was that should get some form of school Community approval at some time and again depending we have clients that do budget transfers they'll even allow that the administration to do those transfers quarterly but then get a report to them that they'll ultimately approve and then also if you're transferring between salaries and non- salaries that's also altering the Integrity of the I say the Integrity the intent of the budget as it was originally approved and so you would want to have sort of review and approval process it just don't want it to be cumbersome again for administration and honestly for you as well they're you know we're having a great discussion here but I like going to school committees where the budget isn't necessarily the hotly discussed topic let's talk about the education and programs of what's going on in the schools one of the things that you know I think our current approach is helpful for is exposing things that are going on that we wouldn't otherwise know right so back to my example around the substitute teachers and the difference between one school and another oh there's a teacher that's in a long-term absence and you know like what's going on there you know out of curiosity or are the needs of the kids in that class being met or that kind of thing sometimes that surfaces through discussions around why we need to move funds right so when when we say you know power down and not require school committee approval for certain levels of things in my mind I'm thinking at least over the course of the last couple of years there have been there's been a lot of information that I've gleaned in terms of just what's going on that has come out of these line out of transfer requests and quarterly budget reports so true lastly we have some links here as far as uh if you can't sleep uh some of the there's a link to the actual Indy chart of accounts that gives you the level of detail that as Paul's reference that we are required to report to the state on and then the next one uh is uh the desie actual end of the year people financial report so and my fat fingers again got the GPS not LPS I apologize about that that's you so you know that goes to what Paul saying as far as the alignment to the the you know making sure lunenberg Char of accounts are aligned to desie and it's one of those things where I always you know tease the people in school Finance as to please don't add any more function codes to the chart of accounts because it just you know makes the those nuances when time comes through building budgets just ever so you know just another thing we need to add to the list to do any general questions from the committee um I don't have a general question but I I do thank you very much for all this information this has been a very very challenging year and to say the least and um knowing the change in the town hall both at the finance director level but also in the town manager level that that's all been very up in the air we've been very fortunate to be able to keep an eye on things and and that Dr Livingston was able to um interface with the new town accountant as well as he has been able to um who from other accounts as well is is doing a wonderful job um so we thank you for the information I I appreciate it and um I'm looking forward to see if we can tweak some of our peculiarly lunenberg habits and make them a little bit more um expedient and I'd like to add you have a wonderful C in the audience your new director oh who is very smart coming on board very quickly it's always good when we're do a nice job we leaving it in good hands we are very glad to have I have one one additional question in relation to munice um this came up again last night at a select board meeting it's a continual issue that in my mind there seems to be no progress being made um and we received a briefing on this um several months ago that was alarming and and what I heard from the business manager from the uh the Sewer Commission last night was it seemed as if we're getting nowhere on on our mutus implementation um and and you know frankly I I don't think that we as a school committee have asserted ourselves in this at all um so do you have any thoughts or commentary or recommendations on that topic I mean I guess I'd say what we need to where is the hold up because we are actually seeing in some of our other districts that are doing some implementation of different modules in munice the the company that owns munice Tyler technology um they are also struggling as far as their Staffing uh I don't necessarily say that they fully recovered from the pandemic but we do so there could be some things on that end that are holding things up I think there are a lot of potential issues lead that led to the issue one of which is we like we skipped like 11 upgrades and went from like Version 9 to 21 or something and you know generally speaking systems aren't designed to do that right um and require you know some disruption happens associated with that last night it was revealed that the servers that uh this thing is running on are uh are running at 100% capacity on the processor so the servers may be you know a little uh underpowered um there's a variety modules there's a variety of different potential issues here but there's no accountability or plan or or end dat or delay and a deadline there's there's nothing happening that leads me to believe that there's an ending you know there's an end in sight for this thing and you know once again we have a responsibility here but we also haven't really asserted ourselves either it's a challenge it's you know I to say it's just a the obvious in that you know it's a thing where um I know like in one of our other districts that where um it's the district the the city's it department is responsible for the Integrity of the M system including Hardware software and dealing with their the service agreement and stuff so it would require looking to see what is included in any support Aras that is the town has with Tyler Technologies to see as far as what is not being addressed is there are there things that could be done you know underneath that agreement does is it going to require additional funding because of the you know whether it's upgrading the servers it is not a not a munist thing that's a it thing and town you know so it's those are the types of things where you know if there was a Magic Bullet I'd give it to you you know um but as of right now you know there could be as you're saying a lot of variables involved where from our point of view would be if it's over if there's a townwide it department is overseeing it you know or whoever is overseeing it you know Administration could start having discussions to see you know and it's a thing I I said we had some challenges with as I mentioned about the mun in one of our other clients where you know as I described like I go run to Mom you know and I I'll sit there and I'll talk you know get on with the the town's Finance director and I would talk with her and I would say where are we you know and she would say you're right you know and stuff and then we would get on a zoom or something say you know we're still waiting on your implementation plan or what you know so it's that type of thing of you know I would like to think start internally first before we end up having a you know as you said meet two volunteers meeting two times a month this is something that is at the administrative level that we would like to think administratively could be taken care of hopefully maybe with new town officials in the the finance director and the come manager that that could help them things move it along one thing that that's happening and you guys have alluded to this is that there's a budget task force I'm on that budget task force some of the things that you've said would help the budget task force clarify recommendations that would be made to individual committees throughout town government um would you be willing to either come or send like a a an email that says like here are things that we recommend and one of the things that Paul said said that I found interesting was how cumbersome just basic functions are and I think that you know one of the things that the select person who started the committee really focused on was are there ways that we can do things cheaper and more efficient and it sounds like you're saying not only can you do this but you really should be doing this as part of best practices would you guys be willing to come and talk or yeah sure okay thanks it's one of the things I just to clarify also that there may be the need to spend the nickel to save it up you know we knowing what it we would need you know we the town would need to know you know the modules that aren't being used are there components of modules not being used and so on so forth so it's just one of those things where you know again I go to the the robust nature that I know that that beus has um and what you're describing not say scary but it's not not out of the norm is we see it a lot we see it a lot of that you know they get the system you know it's got a lot and they'll start using the components that they're you that they know they they need yearly or what have you and then they're you know oh but I'm comfortable with our the way we've been doing X Y or Z you know and then everything from you know onboarding staff oh we we use this module for onboarding well you know the human resource Capital Management has its own oning so let's explore things like that as far as you know again robust system that it can't be you know then then use it you know and it's one of those things where so yeah long answer but by all means you thank you with uh Rising health care costs the town had health care uh stabilization fund and we had used that when healthcare costs Rose uh have you seen School stabilization funds where if prices and say Transportation things like that were schools without a stabilization mon well I the only one that's allowed is the special education stabilization fund and I I know communities you know might some like I don't Advocate quite honestly the creation of it because when you've got other revolving accounts that have the flexibility that could be used for exactly what the sped stabilization fund is there's nothing saying you can't use a school choice rol account for special education related expenses you know so it's one of those things where why create a fund that has you know some I'll say stipulations to it and also a process in place to go through it when there's already a method in place that has more flexibility than expect civilization fund currently has doesn't mean that if you want to create one then you do so I'm not you know that's my personal opinion on it you know it's just a matter of you know because we have had when communities have had discussions regarding in in particular spe stabilization fund you can already see some the town officials saying oh so wait a second here so we're going to be able to have some control over that and to some extent yes they do you know so that's one of the things it's like why why again you're not doing anything devious you know if you end up having you know say a high cost expense that happens that's where you have the discussions asked you do we have the funds available if so where it's coming from whether it's a budget transfer in the local budget or we need to use more school choice money or whatever that we thought we had or do we need to go back to town for supplemental appropriation you know so there are those types of things where you know from my point of view you know a SP stabilization fund particular being the only one that is allow U yeah thank you go ahead but why question from the committee so we do have Dr Gilson the director of administration Finance here I didn't know if you had any you want to add or I have to say that these gentlemen are wonderful um one of them is my coach um and um so I'm learning a lot um appreciating and and growing um in terms of um understanding every Revenue stream that's coming in I'm on the budget task force um and so I'm looking forward to putting the total budget together in a good way we're so excited start we also have the finance committee chair Mr Waters in the audience I don't know if you had any questions or uh comments I'm going a wait for the budget task force thank you uh Dr B any questions comments um I would Echo that um TMS both Dr Livingston um and Mr pette have been U really great in terms of having a resource ready to troubleshoot um Dr livson in particular has done a lot of work directly with our new town finance director um lots of really good conversation and good progress and um it's been my experience as well that um our Finance director has been really good to work with um so I think we're headed in a in a good direction um and I too would like to thank them both for being here this evening um because Dr Livingston is a retired superintendent and he doesn't have to do night meetings so I thank him very much for for being here with us this evening it's been really great thing to have them as a resource um I would offer just one other comment that um more recently we we seem to not be having quite as much trouble with munist the frequency with which munus is down has been reduced it's not a daily occurrence anymore um so somebody's been working on something and there seems to be some improvement of L okay so that's Fant thank you gu um Mr Livingston stepped in at a really hard time for us in the budget season and that was extremely helpful and thank you very much thank you thank you both very thank you for enjoy your weekend thank you the next item on the agenda is the draft of the FY 26 to FY 35 Capital plan yeah all right so again this is an early iteration this is a really early iteration of the plan we we do need to spend a little bit more time finessing this a little bit I think um but I think it's important to be able to meet the timeline that the capital plan committee has set forward um we need to start having some of this conversation now um it would be helpful to have the thoughts of the committee relative to um where we currently have placed projects um if there are um there may be some things that we may want to consider taking out of the capital plan entirely and just notating some other way uh that it's a need on Horizon um so I'll just go through really quickly so we still have um on the list our Windows safety film at the Middle High School uh the next phase of the uh turf field with all of the drainage challenges we did have the 50,000 in ARA money that we have the uh engineering assessment the report we've dropped into the folder and basically what what you see here is um sort of the breakout in the cost estimates for uh hairing uh part of the complex it does not include the actual replacement of the turf and track itself nor does it include repair or replacement of the drainage system under the tur Turf and track these pieces here really are the complex surrounding the turf and track itself there is a possibility that if we wanted to we could lift the dra and turf repair the drainage under it and then reinstall the existing the current track and turf to me that does not make any sense because it is so close to end of life which the end of life has been accelerated based on all of the constant drainage damage to the turf so I think it makes more sense we're going to try to see if we can get somebody to scope the drainage underneath the field itself to figure out if there if it needs to just be sort of rotor roter to clear it or if we can get any other kind of assessment for what is going on underneath the turf but I don't think that it makes sense for us to attempt to repair the drainage under the turf until we're ready to actually replace the turf which honestly should be in the next few years any so my take on this is that we are end of life right on that d right now we are if anybody had been out there in like the last three weeks you can see it's all black pellets we're there all over um and and we are rapidly running into a safety and programming issue in that facility what I became aware of through my conversations and followup with with you Dr Brown and and U the facilities director over over the course of the last couple of months is that the way there may not be a clog it just may be a faulty design on the drainage under that track and for those of you who are not keeping score we spent $50,000 in arpa money that was really initially intended to do the whole thing the $50,000 got us to the perimeter of the track right it the the the retaining wall and the space down basically as far as the brick still um we need another I believe $10,000 is the estimate may it may cost a little bit less than the 10,000 to get somebody in to to get Scopes down there to help us assess what they think the issue is if it's something that can be reasonably uh addressed you know in a non disruptive and invasive way right without having to lift the the the turf and track itself in order to do some sort of repair so we might be able to get an assessment as to whether or not there's a a shortterm little bit of improvement that we might be able to gain there um but I'm not sure that that is going to be the outcome so what I'm leaning into here though is if we do have a design flaw which I believe we do case and point we have drains that run around the corners of the track but there aren't drains that run along the sides of the fields and if you go to most of every other track that I've been to with artificial turf recently and I did check out a few they have drains that run the length of the field not around the ends and I think that that as well as just like basic water flow principles are are are leading to this puddling and and water that is now being retained under the turf in a in a rainstorm and and is leading to um the the pellets you know being kind of you know being floated out and into interesting patterns along the middle of the track after a rainstorm um my question is if that's the realization do we need money to do that design work now and is that included here okay we we can we can try to scope and see what's going on right and see if we can get any kind of assessment and that's in the big scheme of things much smaller money I would tend to agree with your assessment Mr pmore because we I know that when Mr py Terry was here as our facility director he did scope that out and we could not figure out one one one drain pipe just it appeared to just truncate right into the ground not not that it was a collapse but that it just it didn't feed into anything else um and since this was sort of a community effort to to get this um track and turf installed there aren't there aren't engineered designs for the drainage system that's under there um so I do think that potentially it is inadequate um and I do think it's highly likely that what we really need to do is get a artificial turf company to come out and tell us if they were going to install this in in a brand new location they would have to install drainage underneath so I think likely what we need to do is get a a few vendors out that do that work what would it cost if we were going to fully replace the the drainage below the turf and install a new Turf and track I I because I do think that ultimately that's what we will likely end up having to do I don't think it's going to be a minor repair of the existing drainage system underneath nor do I but I what I'm getting to here is how do we expedite this like we got we got $10,000 ask for harpa money which I think is reasonable considering where we're at and how far the $50,000 took us but I think we should be asking for you know funds to do this this in FY 27 at the latest right and I understand that you get that slated in here but a TVD number on this slide does not make me feel good like we're going to even be ready to do that so what I think that we can do is reach out to some of the the vendors that actually install Turf and ask them okay assuming that we need to entirely replace the drainage of theone it's not just a surface replace project it's a full drainage with a new uh installation and the installation of the of the turf itself is in that ballpark of that 500,000 we need to figure out what would be the cost if we needed a full drainage system by the way whatever it's worth from what I've heard from other towns I also sent that $500,000 number is a little low but I it may be yeah but I don't think it's going to be much less than that so for just for the the turf itself I think it's going to be once so just to clarify we're looking at the $920,000 for the hillside Hardscape which is going to fix the retaining wall leaning and the fence and that issue so this is the breakout according to the engineering rep and the bleachers it's the big concrete retaining wall behind the bleachers underneath the Press Box you're talking 330,000 the the block wall that the fence sits a top around the edge of the track another 400,000 and then the the drainage component almost another 200,000 the drainage outside in the hill in the hill so not the drainage of the field right it'll be drainage that will be put into the hill and below the um the walk surface behind the the retaining wall around the the track and that's the 920,000 Y 920,000 and then roughly but probably more it's going to definitely be more cuz the the the number that you've got here the 510 yeah that's maybe to scope it out and and factor in a brand new Turf track installation but not the drainage but I I agree it makes sense to do drainage because if it's not working let's not install new tra and Turf on stop of something again we can reach out to vendors and and get some some uh estimates on what it would cost if we were going to do the full brand new drainage system underneath with a new track Turf installation following that drainage work and get that that price we need that information as soon as possible I mean given where we're at right now you know as I look at this Capital plan I know you're going to get to stuff in another buildings my preference is I'd like to surface this as an FY 26 possibility recognizing the fact that this probably isn't going to be paid for through normal Capital planning funds this is probably a regular borrowing scenario or something along those lines our current note I think has three years left on it it's got funding sources this is going to require if we borrow again and we you know like but that conversation has to start this year in in terms of how because potentially you know if the stars align maybe we can do this project next summer right but but weent ITR ends in 2028 28 yeah yeah but look I mean it's a debt that we agreed to pay based on the anticipated life cycle of that of that turf the turf didn't last long enough right so we've gota we got to you know it's back to this conversation around needs right we got to replace this thing 2028 people are going to be hurting themselves yeah um this is probably an incredibly naive question but that's more money than a capital plan right in general would have is there anything to go to special town meeting with is there any any flexibility at all in the current I say it's very I know the trash thing so so I'm just saying that this to go to Capital plan and ask for over a million dollars you can't do that so that wipes out the whole Capital plan for the town my you can do that my view is you can put it on the capital plan the the way we go about funding these things is subject to lots of conversation with you know the finance committee and the capital planning committee and the town manager uh you know the way the current turf was paid for was a regular borrowing scenario so it's you you Bond it and then you pay for it inside of the lever right through the regular bu and the way it's currently paid for is that we've got revolving funds that basically run into that line I believe so we we we have a budget line that holds 45,000 and annually 45,000 comes from us gets transferred back over to the town from our budget and then the revenue that comes in from the uh cell tower goes directly to the town and that is applied as well to what we all so so again I I don't know how we're going to pay for this thing right but but we got to get this conversation going because God forbid we get into planning for FY 27 and we're in a financial crisis and we can't do it or you know like this is this is not like TC pasos where you KCK the can this is this is a safety issue I'm going to ask a really unpopular question what happens if we don't do it if we don't do it we shut that what are the consequences of not doing the turf field and have not having a turf field available to the school likely renting another field from another school or we won't be able to have the youth organizations renting our field space because we'll need it for all of our athletic programming whether that's games or practices and I don't even think that it would be feasible I mean if you took you know Lysa and the adult programs out of it I honestly don't think that we could do it with the fields that we have particularly in the fall spring maybe we can get away with it but fall I in cases like that if we felt that we did everything that we could and we're still G up short for our schedule we would end up coordinating with other um other districts in our league and hosting some of our home games on their on their facility and busing would we still be able to do the sports again it would take coordination and cooperation with other other districts in the league if they were willing to allow us to have our home scheduled games on the facility it it will it will definitely take some some uh effort on the part of our direct sorry I'm a worst case scenario person I know it's not a good question to ask what happens if we don't have a turfield but y i I think we have to find a way to do this you know um it's a question I don't know how you do this we look at finance committee over there in the corner another thing about the drainage thing it doesn't address the Turkey Hill issue the tur Lake Turkey Hill around the playground area it it may eventually though if if we're diverting the drainage coming down the hill yes I think they're in a different direction um we may see some improved uh circumstances I got to tell you you Lake Turkey Hill has always been there long before long before that track came into existence so I'm very skeptical of that but that is something that if at some point there was a Turkey Hill renovation project or a tear down new build on that area that the drainage could be addressed part of that okay all right so just to move quickly through um you've got the auditorium Booth upgrades this was also one of the projects that we put through as a possible Opa funding request um but in case uh that isn't something that the select board decides to fund it is carried here in the plan as well um concession stand Fieldhouse uh key card access on that on that building again this was one of the ARA funed uh projects that we had discussed it's going to be carried here as well until decisions are made about Opa funding um in working with our it Department um again putting out there on the horizon with the age of this building um the age of the projectors the wall mounted projectors that we have in in the Middle High School school they will be reaching end of useful life and you know we'll be needing to do some replacement of um all of those devices as well um this number here is based on those touch screens that we've installed in in Turkey Hill um and would be looking to install down at the primary as well um we can get more we find about what the latest technology is at that point and what a replacement option might look like a few years out from now if technology has changed so this is this is just to put it on the radar that there's going to have to be a massive swap out and upgrade of of that um equipment the the the existing equipment my understanding is it is holding up pretty well blowing bulbs here and there but it's not yep no no I understand that just in terms of the early indicators are it's going to meet its meantime between failure yep we can continue to monitor the the health of you know the equipment that we do have and it's possible you know two years out from now as we revise a 10y year Lookout maybe we can push it off another year if things are holding up reasonably well but I do think it's time to put it on here as a placeholder that this is a big a replacement project that's going to have to happen do you recommend doing them all at once instead of a slow roll out Well's just say that in places where we have done some upgrades um maybe the AC at the primary school it's become an equity issue ah okay because not all classrooms are now outfitted with a mini support excellent yes that said if that's what it takes to do it into two phase we do the high school side one year we do the Middle School side another year again we have plenty of time to talk about that but it is on the horizon it's a it's also going to be there's a learning curve associated with any new technology particularly if it's involved in day like literally day today instruction I I remember when we open the school hearing stories about this stuff isn't super easy to use and it takes some learning to integrate the technology and how do things yep uh Turkey Hill is going to need a hot water tank replacement um again we it was we we looked at the information last year when we did the capital plan um the information on the tank itself the tank was built in 2002 uh the useful life on these is about 20 years so we're already past the 20 year useful life based on uh the year it was built um classroom Mini Splits for uh Turkey Hill again this is another it's here but this is a project that we could potentially pursue uh with green communities Grant um you know in in this particular case with Turkey Hill where it may very well be a useful backup heat Source it may actually be a better um a better candidate for a green communities uh project um so we we are going to be exploring this one a little bit further as maybe there's a potential alternative funding source um this one here you know we can talk about whether to leave it in as a separate project or whether this is part and parcel of any Renault upgrade after we get the engineering assessment on what's it going to cost to get us ADA Compliant what will have to be upgraded in that building and maybe we put the window replacement as part of that whole uh upgrade and maybe we take it out as a separate Standalone project um some something to consider but um you know I I for now anyway I've put it a couple years out from here uh which gives us time to see what the engineering assessment looks like of the of the Turkey Hill building and we may have a different conversation after we see that but for now it's still in here this is go 29 yeah she's 29 because we I mean we really want to on Capital planning committee we want to plan around at least a five year time Horizon and make some recommendations and priorities so my thinging is until we have a plan then we need to leave it there as a placeholder so that the the capital plan committee and the special budget committee and the finance committee can all track this is something that needs to be accounted for we still need to come up with a long-term cohesive plan for our buildings and do we know when the engineer the engineering report for Turkey Hill is going to come back no I mean we we've expressed that it's a process that we need to get to and it's information that we need for future planning um actually had a conversation uh with Mr pette uh in trying to get just the generic sort of engineering assessment bid out and explained no no this isn't something that we want to wait and see if we can do something with msba funding an assessment this is for a bigger picture conversation about the future of this building potentially as a as a municipal building when it's no longer school and we're just trying to get an assessment of what what would it take to get this to to a code compliance um so that we can then have more conversation about how do we see the future of this building and then make some decisions around that so what are we looking at time wise for this I'm going to be really I'm going to you know tell you long range here I don't expect anything uh short of maybe about a six-month window if I can pull it off before that that would be phenomenal but I don't want to give you some unrealistic expectations because what we're finding is that it's extraordinarily slow the all of the projects that we've initially bid means that we're getting engineers in and then the engineers come for each one of the capital projects that we were're getting underway the Engineers have come in and they've assessed and then they've said well we need you to do some asbest testing because if we're going to take the frame of doors off we're going to disturb the concrete blocks or potentially glazing and whatnot there could be ASB bestus we need to now wait until we can get as bestus folks in to do that assessment and get us a report then it goes back to the engine it has been frustratingly slow so I don't want to set unrealistic expectations it is urgent we know it's urgent we need this information to make decisions right that are decisions that impact the bigger picture for the town too right so we know the importance and the urgency of getting this information but I I have to say I I have been enormously frustrated with the pace of how this all is progressing so I I don't want to set any unrealistic expectations here okay that's just good information house we can no time because it's hard I feel like until that comes in we can't we can't have a discussion about these things but then it makes the plan correct um primary school needs a generator building does not have a generator and we have been trying for the last couple of years if we could squeeze out just a smidge of money from our budget that we would be able to just install a generator um but we have not been able to do that um so it's on the plan um what we really need we we got it we got a price for the whole building being on the generator way too much money it was like 170,00 we don't I don't need to have the whole building on the generator I need to have the boiler and the kitchen if we lose the refrigeration right or the freezer uh we we could be losing hundreds or more uh in spoiled food if we happen to lose power for an extended period of time and sometimes it doesn't have to be super long um during a cold snap we could have frozen pipes that burst and then there's damage there that we need to address we this is in my mind this is an insurance policy for the building we need to have a generator um to me this is a high priority because it's an investment in in our in our building are there any areas that would need emergency lightting um I think that we have emergency lighting back up somehow in the building I'll double check on that but we don't have it there's no source to keep the kitchen and the boil room running if there's a power outage is this the only building only school that we have this is the only one that does not have a generator our other generators are diesel so I would like I think it would make sense to put that in the request and also that maybe it was probably even in the designs but they took it out to save money maybe they probably did but I think it would be good we've been extraordinarily lucky that for the last almost 20 years that we have not had an issue that resulted in damage to the in 2008 what did we do during the I the water it was cold but it wasn't that cold yeah the um one other thought on that when I was I did a building a year ago Mr he was a lot of electronic componentry because there there are a lot of um electronically controlled systems in that building hbac and a bunch of other stuff all of which frequent outages are known to reduce the lifespan of that componentry and you run into issues similar to what we had with the panel at Turkey Hill Turkey Hill was built in 1969 and that thing lasted a very long time but the um you know the the probability of certain systems going down as a result of of not being shut down or turned on properly is um is very likely putting a strain on the system we had trouble even in this building here with power outages where power went out oh power came back on but the boilers didn't reset um so uh Mr he's been looking at sort of um systems that can notify him if if it doesn't come back on so that if it happens over weekend that the power goes out we not here on Monday morning in a freezing cold building because the boilers haven't been working all weekend um so that he could come out and reset do does this building have a battery backup or is it is there an interruption when the generators come on for the boiler room for critical systems like like boilers H I'm GNA say I I can't say for sure but my guess would be no since we have trouble when the power goes out and comes back on and and there it doesn't just click the boilers back on so my guess is no Mr heee would be the one to answer that question um so I'll have to I'll have to follow up with him we still have the primary school window safety film on the list we have phase two of the uh classroom AC down at the primary and like I said it's already been brought to my attention that this is an equity issue that some rooms have many spits and others do not so I know that this is not an emergency urgent sort of capital project do some classrooms know have they see many splits they the project has I I think it's is it complete it's pretty close to complete if it's not complete um but again we don't we never were going to with phase one be able to put units in every single classroom so there are classrooms that do not have it um and I I have already been contacted about that um we still have the playground uh um sort of design process and um installation of a of a new um playground at the primary school again this would be more accessible more scaled to size more appropriate but also more accessible for students with um disabilities as an example um the the equipment that we have down there is not really truly inclusive um the driveway uh expansion is still on here um the boiler uh replacement at the primary school is still on here um is the gas condensing boiler something that the Green community yeah why are we looking at a boiler could take on so we could potentially I think we should wait and see what happens msba was doing a study yeah to see about because they're trying to move away from fossil fuel type systems to Greener systems um so they were doing a study they've commissioned to study to try to figure out whether that's the right move and what kind of systems are the best type to move forward um as soon as they push out some information about that those are the kinds of projects that msba would reimburse as part of their accelerated repair program if they find that it makes sense but these are on hold right now as part of the accelerating they would not be there would be no money for for reimbursement for a boil and replacement at least not with their current position right now they're thinking they're moving away from that entirely um but honestly I uh went to a session with msba at the superintendent conference in July and um there were superintendents that were asking them if they would consider some sort of hybrid move right um so stay tuned on that is I guess my best uh information um pending whatever they find when they yeah I mean the reality is even if we don't do a boiler and we go to full Reliance on on heat pumps or Mini Splits or whatever we're probably going to spend that much money anyway right so it it probably is a placeholder so I put this on as a placeholder in the very out years because we know with the age of the building the primary all the Mechanicals on the top of that roof going to have to be addressed uh based on age and useful life um I don't have a price for you on that right this minute but again it would be in the oute so it it maybe doesn't even really impact the intent of the capital planning committee to really nail down a fiveyear window for a plan but just know that this is on the horizon in the out years um in talking with Mr heee rather than a second dunk truck we we have we have a dunk truck we have an older pickup um he'd like to actually replace this one with a utility truck and that's the kind of truck that has like the the cabinets on the side the back ends of the truck where you can put you know uh tools and equipment and things like that and store it lock it in the vehicle itself um but this is the condition of the truck that we have currently that we're looking into it's and these pictures are a year old so it's maybe advanced in it Rusty patina at this point that's a ni um again in talking with the IT team um we really need to uh be looking to replace the central server that backs up our security camera system for the district um because we're we're really at that end of life where it's being supported it's sort of like the upgrade to nun you get to a point where a certain version is no longer going to be supported that's that's where we're headed here we still have the uh pickup with the plow that was in last year's plan as well um it's time for a network firewall replacement roundabout fy3 if we're um by FY 31 the product that we are using will no longer be supported um so we will need an upgrade to the phone system districtwide again so these are years but they're on the horizon um the replacement mower we had in the plan last year as well so when you start taking a look at you know how things map out um I do have here in the pink cells these are the things that you know do we want to consider pulling the window replacement and all all of the code upgrades to Turkey Hill right when when we get the report and we know how much money that is do do we want to take that as one package and look for a different type of funding source for that project not Capital planning right and I also put in the pink the the turf drainage and the track and turf replacement um do we want to pulling these out of the traditional Capital plan because these are Big Ticket items that we might want to do borrowing for right so this is something that the committee can consider how how you want to proceed with this and I guess we'd likely defer to Mr beore since he's the chair of the capital plan as to what he thinks is the best way forward leave it in the plan take it out with a separate facility planning type uh document for the capital plan committee to consider or even finance committee to consider I I don't know the best way forward and I'm not sure how you feel about what was placed in FY 26 um the generator is there the safety film for primary school and I don't know if you feel strongly that that needs to be an f26 or if that bumps out the replacement of the hot water tank so I've got the safety film at the Middle High School still in here as well the camera server replacement and right now the utility pickup with the plow is is in for 26 based on the condition of the dump truck that we have that's rusting the heart we've also not funded vehicle request for the last two years the current fiscal year so I mean we can you know continue kicking that can but I think it should be there right and I don't know again I put the auditorium booth and the concession key card projects out another year I don't know how you feel about the priority for the auditorium to be done in FY 26 if it's not ARA funded it's not it's not an emergency it's not it's not a safety issue I I don't know if we want to prioritize other things that are just a little bit of feedback here um I I I'm looking at this thinking about like okay what aside from the track and field thing which is its own end um what is likely to be funded and well received by the capital planning committee um what of the stuff in 27 would we say we really want to bring this in um because it's a safety issue or because whatever um I personally don't think that the additional safety film projects are going to go in not because I don't think that they're warranted but only one member of the capital planning committee is turning over this year um I in and I'm projecting here but I haven't had this conversation with our newer member with our new member um Mr Bing but I think that what we experienced over the course of the last two years was it was well out it was well below the line when we had them put together and then what we managed to achieve was we got Turkey Hill put way up but as a result of that the other two fell way down and and I just I I think it's going to be a a hard cell um again what my own my own position ass I ask yes Mr why are why is this a hard cell like it's a cheap thing it is proven to make a difference it is for the safety of children it's not like you're asking for a million dollars for a football field you're asking for something that protects every single person in the building it gives the police time to show up if we were in Anchorage Alaska and travel across town was impossible then maybe this would be less necessary maybe but like yeah we have the the very great Fortune of having all of the schools and the police department basically on the same road if we can give somebody two minutes but but that was part of the argument that that that ued which was which is we don't want to give them two minutes You' got a resource officers you've got police presence literally in the center of town all day long we just put an additional Cruiser on the road during the day response time is low you know this this is really there are multiple potential threats this thwarts potentially one and it's you know it's a risk it's risk calculus right now I happen to agree with you but but the but I am but you and I are not May sorry so maybe it's we can keep it on if we feel like it's a need we can change our presentation also to make adjustments and try to stress the importance of why we need it we see as the years go on that maybe it's something we have to fund on our own and not through perhaps that's it too but these discussions happened twice over the last two years and we are where we are this building and Primary School building were built within the last 20ish years right post Coline right these buildings were built to a certain extent with security in mind the exterior doors all automatically locked we have vules we have you know the the type of normal security controls that a 21st century building has we don't have also we don't have the gigantic you know storefront storefront that we have in in Turkey Hill right so um you know when compared it was really wasn't no brainer to prioritize Turkey Hill in my opinion it's a harder s it just is do you think we should take it off the capital plan list well so I think I would consider that it relative to things like for example the playground at the primary school that I consider to be a safety hazard yes relative to the driveway of the primary school that I consider to be a safety hazard like you know mean we this isn't the only safety problem that we have and and so relative to other safety problems and the possib of getting them address in my mind you know I think it needs to be I mean there look there we just if I were came for a day I'd fund all of them right well do you think there's a concern about having a longer list and and if they're all on there the capital plan is still going to just make their own any we can do whatever we want we just talked about needs based we can submit whatever we want we just talked about needs based bud I'm com I don't like that we're talking about taking things off because and when we submit these we we can prioritize them like we have in years past right so yeah I would I would support putting our needs down and we can prioritize and they'll prioritize as well yeah I would I would like to ask for what our needs are not for what we think we can get I I I mean I understand it makes sense to do that I understand why is there so just looking at the list again AC Phase 2 is there a reason we have to wait till FY 27 could we put that on FY 27 I thought that was we could and I I could see if the challenge is right that the green communities you heard it's going to be about 200,000 that they're they're we're going to be able to ask for but the problem with the AC and again this is why I asked the question of you and and Mr BL we really need understanding in terms of how we need to classify that AC if we're looking green communities Grant the other thing very much related to this issue is the boiler issue that you just talked about at msba this is potentially fundable through msba as well right if we decide that we're going to go we're going to go this route as a primary heating system for that building so in my mind there's two big questions that need to get answered before we put that in 26 and potentially ask the town to pay the whole bill when we really only need to pay part of the B I would agree with that one and if if we were to use the um Mini Splits as a primary heating Source they'd have to go through the whole building obviously and if you were getting rid of the gas boilers your generator cost is going to go up much higher too because if the power goes out the mini splits are not going to work without the generator that's a fair point and if we if we did installation at let's say turkey hill where where it makes more sense right yes you're talking about also having to have them in the cafeteria in the kitchen area in the gym so it's more than just classrooms so the price tag would actually be higher for Turkey Hill than than what I've got here because we if we were looking to install them and potentially receive reimbursement funding it would be to use them as a SCE right so that price tag would be higher but potentially we would be getting some reimbursement yeah the generator there be able to take that kind of a load you need to have a bigger generator yeah I I think we should I think we need answers to those questions because there's just you know given all of the requests that are coming in yep if there's a possibility that something is you know that we get some help in 27 versus paying the whole bill in 26 I can tell you what the answer is we're not doing Mak and that's why like the the the AC heat for Turkey Hill is not it's not next year for sure because we're not going to know enough from msba as to whether or not they are going to look to add that as a possible accelerated repair that you know is eligible for some reimbursement we may be looking at if if we find out that true it actually may be more like FY 28 before we actually get we leave it where it is or leave it in in 27 I do think though based on what you just brought up Carol somebody needs to run a scenario on the generator propos right like is that thing is is that is that power spec primary yeah is that power spec for what's there or what you think will be there so if you think about if you want to be able to run all of the mini splits that are in and if more mini splits go in at the primary school to run the whole building you're talking we had a quote for 171,000 to to have the generator tied into the panel to run the whole building and I asked them to modify and tell me what what what's the cost if I just want to keep the kitchen and the Boiler Room on the generator and they said well I need to come out and and size things up again but if you can go to a smaller size generator that that's when they said it was about and so our assumption here is we're not programming building on generator power we we're keeping the building free freeing keep the all right Fair that's thank you for clarifying y so are there are there things in 27 or 28 or that you would want moved in to 26 if I I might want if I'm taking off the film projects the driveway study I think the playround am driveway my mind the the driveway study that is a safety issue the way that it it blocks up is concerning especially at especially when there's events yeah when there's events and when there's um pick up and drop off I was there that day that the fire alarms got older went off and and it's too narrow ask the um rough so yeah I would consider I mean the sum total there is $60,000 in 26 it makes 27 an interesting year we do and is this our final no so this is okay like the secretary of the the primary school would be a good person to utilize for the driveway knowledge I'm hoping there's a creative solution because I stared at that it's it's going to be Engineers that are going to tell us what we can and cannot do there because there are going to be environmental limitations to what we can do but I think the the key is going to be Express ing the concern to the capital planning why it's really important that it's a isue and I can tell you right now that both Chiefs recognize that it's a safety issue yeah that might be good getting the both Chiefs to have a comment on them yep and my concern is that whatever driveway issue it might involve where the playground is and so well that discuss remember discuss came last year okay let's not before the other way around if we can get the to go around that way that might be so we would have to make sure we do this so that we're not without a PL CR so are you okay with um the camera server replacement staying in 26 and the utility pickup staying in 26 um what are your thoughts on placement in seven for the auditorium Booth upgrades and the concession stand key cards let's see what happens with the that's okay but we'll see what happens that's also a very good point I mean theoretically we should vote on this at our first meeting in September okay and we should have an indication in terms of where we're at with ARA by then I mean theoretically is this due to Capital planning so there is no due date right now what we have asked or are asking of the department heads is when can you get them to us with the intention of not doing this entirely in October and November and then racing the submit in December but doing it in September and October having something that we have a really good understanding of what we want in 26 and then look at a prioritization and feedback loop around the out years the beginnings of a 5year capital plan but to do that we need these submissions sooner rather than later so i' as can we do this the chair we're going to be overachiever and so you know and truth be told there are some other challenges the facilities directed for the town is on fraternity leave like there there's other mediating factors where if we can go sooner than we have in the past that would be everybody's best the auditorium Booth is that from a community standpoint as far as using it for Town meetings and issues there or is it for an education standpoint both both both way and just for the benefit of the entire uh committee Mr beardmore had raised the issue of um hearing aid uh compatibility or at least improved audio for folks with hearing aid and when I brought that back to the tech department um we already have devices um they are available and we will when we're setting up for um the fall town meeting we'll make sure that at the check-in desk when people come in they get their clicker if they need a device for hearing aid they can pick one up when they come in we do have something like Hey look it's better it's better than it is the the the the frustrating thing is those things have been sitting in a box for AG years well that's it time but our exactly yeah I want toze that know because um that yeah and I'm sure that the town moderator would make that announcement just like they made the announcement we got to make it before the meeting so people aren't skipping the meeting because they think they won't be able to hear that's true um so that that's fine and we will make sure that when the texts do the upgrades to the audio with the with the booth that they test and make sure that those devices are all synced right as well I think is good although yeah I might want to move the driveway to 26 but than that yeah I think we should look at the driveway this the planning part right and therefore therefore it would be a 26 27 followup ver versus a 2728 followup form you can understand where the one thing relates to the other thing and positioning and that kind of thing I'd like to do like 2627 and then the playground would be a 27 and like the driveway would be the end of so the driveway and the playground would end up being built very close together it would make sense to know where the driveway is first then figure out but I don't I I really don't know very right and we may when we get the designs back decide that no this has to be done first we'll do that we we would ask for funding in this fiscal year and we would delay the installation of the other until this fiscal year sounds thank you for putting this together um do we want to rank order or do you want me to put the list together and send it out and then you all could each rank order and send it back to me and I sort of tabulate like we did last year I think that works okay if everybody's okay with it I would prefer median versus me if we can do that median is the the middle ranking versus just averaging them so if you have like a first rank first rank first rank first Rank and a 19 19 rank it doesn't average out you take the median or the middle of that list so you take the one so is the is the new capital planning committee chair I probably need a math lesson for resent yeah but I think medians usually get a better picture of the group I know what you're talking about yeah we can do both I could provide you with both and our outliers don't drastically change the day that's right we have a superintendent with the stem background we're political science degree from University of Southern that all right well thank you very very much for the discussion and the feedback and we'll make those adjustments and um share back out the the spreadsheet version and then we can make updates to the slide deck so that the that we're ready to go for the capital plan Community as well thank you the uh the only comment I the the slides too you had TBD on the the the big Excel part but it was question marks in the slide individual slides y I think keeping them all consistent with the TBD for the dollar amounts that weren't know better than the question marks any other questions or comments no all right moving on the next item of the agenda is the discussion on the review of the operating protocols uh I'll turn over to superintendent if you had any I did not receive any feedback any questions or comments for the protocols I think the key is that really just following them and then just staying on task directly we're so good at that they're very Aline with the MC protocols and other area protocols we put a lot of work into these last two years this good working document yeah one uh one comment was I think that there was a red line from last year in this document it does need to be un redlined and the positive is there a way the public can access these I believe that they will they are posted Protocols are posted on the school committee website and under operating protocols so yeah so you could just clean out that SC the strike through and the the red marking and then change that they were reviewed a one one thing that we had for a while and then went away when I think that the resource the multifunctional room on the other side started being used for classes we actually had these posted in the room that we were meeting in I don't know if Our intention is to do this room permanently next year or what but I'd love to see them this room is just because um of the cleaning of the building at the moment the Acoustics are better in this room for what it's worth so I think there's less stuff in here we forgot to say theedge today it wasn't on wasn't on the agenda wasn't on theenda um Brian didn't go broke but for what it's worth I I I do think we should post them someplace physically can we post them on Facebook and that place where we can yeah why put on the Facebook SCH that's a great idea I don't even have Facebook so I don't know what I oh you missed have one don't go all right moving on then uh um next item of the agenda is an action item uh Chapter 70 funding update so I had drafted a letter I did get some feedback and Dr Brenan was able to make those changes you can see that in your folder I can read it as is unless there's any other modifications did you add the name it's called n the action d here we go okay uh dear interim Town manager members of the lunenberg select board and members of the finance committee thank you for your continued support of lunenberg public schools this letter is to request allocation of the recent increase in Chapter 70 funding to the school budget for the upcoming school year as you may know the fy2 conference committee budget was released recently and it appears that lunenberg has received an additional 31,8 182 in Chapter 70 funding over the governor's initial proposal while the updated cherry sheet estimates are still pending it is clear that the legislator legislature intended for these additional funds to support our schools therefore we request the funds be designated for appropriation to the school department at special town meeting in November in light of the ongoing hiring challenges faced by super ATT Burnham these additional funds though not extensive could significantly help in addressing pressing needs within our school system ensuring that our schools have the necessary resources is crucial for maintaining the high standard of Education that our children deserve kindly consider including this additional $31,800 the welfare of our town respectfully lburg school committee is that amount the budget the governor signed or was that the proposed I'm looking at you yeah you've got a memo in there that's that's the final figure so Dr gillson took care of the that in the memo we have in our folder the the change the original amount the change to do them all and the difference okay so that's the final amount that is the fin amount do we want to edit the as you may know paragraph and instead of it appears now that it's I think it's finalized that lunenberg has received yeah instead of it appears we should probably at the time we were notified it was that it was pending well and then I don't know if the cherry sheet estimates are still pending at this point now because the the budget has been Cher sheets of B issue um I don't they're not updated it doesn't look like it still has conference committee I just don't know if we have the I'm assuming we have the final numbers now this these are the final numbers yeah so I don't think we need the and then the we should probably change it to have while the updated chry she estimates are still pending they can get rid of that part too it is and then just start with the sentence it is clear we should also change it to have Carter's name Mr tanini instead of dear inter manager I think that's just the position that's this title okay um I think this is fun it communicates the intent and we can put this on letterhead um and the chair can come in and sign the final version email do you want us to all sign the final version chair is fine important one so it is an action item I move to uh approve the letter as drafted second we have a motion to approve the letter as drafted all in favor say I I opposed obain thank you the motion passed thank you thank you everyone thank you for putting that together next it the agenda is public comment I'm going to open up public comment to the public first is there anyone in the public who has a public comment I would remind you to um not mention any names of personnel or students is there anyone on Zoom with the public comment please raise your hand or your virtual hand anything in the chat okay seeing uh no public comment from the public I'll open up to public comment from the committee I did want to say something yes um it was a weird week um it was a weird week as a member of the school committee we can't talk about certain things we can't share on Facebook where it can be seen by other committee members uh because that's discussing outside of a posted meeting um we're Bound by open meeting laws um and we certainly cannot be discussing or commenting on employee or employee matters um if you want to talk about an issue there are ways to do it um if you want to talk about curriculum or issues that you're having you should come in and talk about curriculum or the issues you're having um please come in and talk email Dr vernham uh she responds to every email she gets she responds to phone calls she will call you back she'll talk to you you can email us on the school committee uh the district they love talking about their curriculum they're proud of the curriculum um when Miss Scott was curriculum director she loved talking about the curriculum and if you had concerns about the curriculum she would meet with you I've met with her to talk about the curriculum and she'll talk about the curriculum and any concerns you have and she will answer questions if you have questions about the curriculum or what your child's learning you should call and talk because you're an involved parent and that's what you want to do there's a process and that's how we get it done we're very open about that we want to talk to you you you can come to school committee meetings you can make public comments you can talk to us you can email us you can email Dr Burnham you can email the curriculum director when we were're currently filling the position but you you can email you can come have a meeting face to face Dr Burnham offered meetings face to face with concerned parents I saw some of the comments on Facebook I saw how many comment there were I got two emails total from members of the public I actually got one email and another one was forwarded so we could see the response um only two people cared enough to actually write out an email to members of the school committee uh tonight I kind of expected someone to come and speak to us with they're concerned about the curriculum based on the amount of vital and the amount of comments and the amount of anger and and just the the wave of activity but there was one public speaker tonight who came and spoke about it nobody came and spoke to us about concerns they have and we got I mean two emails about it um this is the avenue to make your complaints not social media and I don't know what the point is I like when we learn from our mistakes I like when we learn from things and I don't know what the take away from this is I would like to learn that we've learned as a community to maybe calm down and not lean into a mob mentality to maybe next time this happens look and stop and think is one or two people responding to every comment on a Facebook post is it just one or two of the same people responding to the same comments over and over and over to inflame discourse is one person claiming to be speaking for a silent majority that makes it seem like a bigger issue in order to sway you is the information presented in a factual non-inflammatory way what is the original source of the information is the original source of the information unbiased and presented in an unbiased actual way and I want to say again I got we I got two emails about this two people actually cared enough to send an email directly to members of the school committee but there were hundreds of comments made on Facebook and I think less than five people ended up meeting with Dr Burnham about this our kids are watching and we need to show them how we want them to act uh in lunenberg our strength is our sense of community we're a small town it makes it a little harder sometimes s in a small District it makes it harder like our money doesn't go as far it it makes it harder so we need to focus on our strengths which is our community our bonds our connections and our interpersonal relationships which is what I value about living in a small town it's why I like living here so there was hurt done this week people were hurt it's not a great reflection of our community if a potential candidate for positions in our school were to come across the discussions that happen I'm worried it would make them unlikely to want to apply here um we're already having difficulty with getting applicants qualified app candidates to apply for jobs I don't think this helped so I want us to try and do better I know it's the end of the meeting and nobody's watching this but I do want us to try and do better and if you want to participate in the process participate in the process show up to school school committee meetings email call Dr Burnham participate in the actual process choose kindness and choose connections and choose to build community so thank you thank you Mr be yeah so I I do think that there are learning opportunities here and I did discuss some of these briefly with the superintendent uh yesterday or today um the first is I I do think we need to think about our Communications policies once again think about how we are um how we are operating in a world of social media because it is a real phenomenon and our protocols that we just passed really do not account for that phenomenon and and I broke the protocol three or four months ago when misinformation was coming out way about the way the budget was being applied number one because I knew the facts and number two because I thought I saw something spinning out of control and nobody was doing anything but that's not my job and I shouldn't be doing it somebody else should be doing it and I think that we need to be thoughtful about how we deal with that because there is a trend here there is no doubt about it the second thing is as this was going down this weekend I was thinking about hey I want to be able to refer to our curriculum our hiring practice the process those kinds of things and we have a well stated I think hiring policy but we our hiring policy in practice is not enshrined in school committee policy um and I I think that if we're pointing people to anything it should be school committee policy um so I think that that's something that has probably been overlooked um instantly overlooked um but I think that we need to we need to do about that put it on our agenda for in the future any other public comment I want to say something I don't want to make this meeting take me longer but we almost there you guys first of all I I purposely abstain from Facebook because it is not productive but the bigger point is in 1968 after Martin Luther King was assassinated a woman named Jame Elliot had a school project with third graders and in that third grade class she taught them about what discrimination was and she segregated the class and children based on their eye color and she told her students that the students with blue eyes were better than the students with brown eyes and she gave them all sorts of different privileges based solely on their eye color and at the end of a period of two or three weeks she told the children that all of this was garbage and that it was just just stuff she made up and it was a way to teach them about discrimination in 1970 Jane Elliot appeared on The Tonight Show at the invitation of Johnny Carson when she came on the show she got a rousing Ovation from the crowd because people in 1970 understood that racism was real that discrimination was real and that we needed to teach children about it I am afraid that we live in a society in which people can no longer do that and if we do not allow our schools to operate as a Marketplace of ideas where people can hear different perspectives then we are doing a disservice to our children our children are going to go out in a world that is Multicultural and equipping them with the ability to deal with different people with diverse views and making them aware of discrimination is core to student achievement that's all I'm going to say thank you is there any other public comment see none yes thank you very much is there any other uh guess there's no other public comment looking for a motion to adjourn At 9:34 p.m. motion to aour thank sir all in favor I I thank you everyone good