##VIDEO ID:BApnHswB2Z8## [Music] all right good evening and welcome to tonight's meeting of the lunenberg select board today is Tuesday October 22nd please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast live over the lunenberg public access Channel on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page and will be uploaded to the lunenberg access YouTube channel after the meeting the agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law recording in progress we're going to begin tonight with public comments are there any public comments from the board not then I would just uh wish Mr tanzini a happy birthday I I can tell by that face that he didn't want me to do this but today is in fact his birthday uh I'm sure there's no other place he would rather be tonight than with us here at the lunenberg select board so we'll try to make it as uh good as we can and he's very lucky since we don't want to pay royalties we won't sing You the song yeah no we're not probably other reasons why we shouldn't either but we'll go with that one thank you happy happy birthday Carter all right are there any public comments from the public Mr Bowen don't way I'm not reading all this it's just hi John bow 162 Highland Street um I'm with G Marie price she's not here tonight but I would like to first open with a praise uh for this board's Direction um with your I guess you could call it a ratification of your direction in your goals meeting um particularly the matters that include employees and how they are treated in this town and the steps forward for a better process which respects the people who provide a much needed service to this community in addition these goals modified of course should also apply toward residents of this town we also need the same application uh of these types of measures in order for us to be able to acquire and retain good volunteers and good elected officials ones with Integrity as well as commitment that means that we should basically be evaluating each other this brings to why I am before you this evening our Cemetery commission has not met since July 25th 2024 due to the chairperson Nancy Fasco having a personal matter my understanding there is not a plan to have a meeting anytime soon even though Vice chair Dave Dorne and member Michael Clark would make a quorum on that committee for conducting our cemetery's business this is a problem however it does showcase what I have been mentioning all along that Nancy yasco is the cemetery commission and not the board and that David Doran is a rubber stamp our Cemetery has serious issues that need to be addressed and it is not happening on July 29th he mu lemu emailed the chairperson Miss F yasco and cced this board expressing her dissatisfaction of Miss yasco responses I quote she stated Nancy yosco said I have been in the dock over this situation quoted by Heather lemu which Nancy tried to explain away before the finance committee a few weeks ago which brings me to why I'm before you when I heard that information this email is scaling uh okay she should be focusing on and uh Heather said that she should not be focusing on the height of the grass and what Todd hullman is doing in the cemetery and focus on the matters of the cemetery that are of primary importance for this town like the West Street Terrace uh Cemetery in the imminent domain issue that exists there that's going to take time that will ALS that will take a warrant article as well as roughly about 18 months of time to resolve between getting a surveyor and everything else getting money and so on and so forth to be able to execute the imminent domain having the lawyers look it over having the lawers F but this is a lot of work I have not even scratched the surface with what I have just mentioned okay we have 70 plots left in the cemeteries this is another process of an 18 months to get money as well through warrant articles as well as work that needs to be done in the North Cemetery 70 Graves that's it okay we have no warrant articles presented we have nothing being done for four months lastly it was mentioned to Nancy yosco who invokes your name uh Mr chairman and Mr Vice chairman she does this constantly uh who at this time she is being sued by the cemetery superintendent I have the lawsuit here for defamation of character I acquired this through the public record because I do receive a lot of the Court uh dockets for the day with some of the work that I do on the side um basically what I'm trying to say okay in conclusion is let's get our Cemetery business done Miss F yasco should resign for this action of defamation it's on recorded tapes from these meetings as well as in depositions I'm sure that will come forthcoming with this lawsuit she has done nothing but lie to this community not only lie to this community but bring shame here I would just like to say that our former Town manager affirmed all these things I'm saying in an email and I've tried to communicate this to the community but I hope now you understand I'm making sense I'm telling you who Nancy yasco is as an elected person and who Dave is on that committee okay and how this town voted that the wrong people to be able to handle our cemeteries and I'm excluding Michael Clark because Michael Clark was just elected this year and I wait to see where is our quarum but I thank you for your time thank you Mr Bowen are there any other public comments Mrs Lockwood good evening [Music] sorry I'm going to be reading most of my public comment um I'm here today um to make to address some of the comments that were made last week on the meeting in a couple different topics uh regarding Marshall Park fund uh funding Mr Alonzo you said 5.2 million that I'm hearing about tonight I only F out found out about the cost of the project in the newspaper I don't watch every board meeting I don't have time to no one has time to again no runaway to people to get to get people set on this there were extensive con conversations and planning with the previous Town manager about this project and the funding timeline starting back into March 2023 the fact that you don't know the details it's on you if you don't have time to watch our meetings your board can assign liance committees you had an employee who reported to you the town manager that you could have also asked for updates and by the way the Parks Commission didn't post the RFP to the newspaper your employee did as a select board member if you don't have time to keep a breast of a project that has been happening in town for four years and has had three different town meeting votes by the way the votes were positive perhaps you don't have the necessary time to serve in this position you may not think what you're doing to other boards and commission is gaslighting but it is accusing them of not providing you with information because you don't know all the information all the information is not served to you on a platter is gaslighting at the most basic level you can ask your questions to employees a report to you before making statements that aren't true regarding the sap changes proposed by Mr tanini last week's meeting Mr Alonzo said that there isn't enough runaway or time to understand the changes in order to support Mr trini's proposed changed the SCP you also mentioned that you don't we don't have a Personnel committee it's true at the Springtown meeting of 2022 the Personnel committee presented changes to the SCP that included proposed to offer holiday and seek page part-time employees however Mr lws at that time you introduced two amendments at the town meeting which essentially gut of the work that the Personnel committee did that year there's a significant difference between speaking for for or against an article town meeting and introducing an amendments that completely disregard the work that other groups of volunteers have done spent an entire year working on it unsurprisingly we don't have a personal committee how do you how how you express support or opposition for the work the other volunteers group in town has a direct impact on how people and feel and their willingness to continue in serving put it simply your use of your position in ways that disrespect the work of your colleagues both staff and volunteers on other boards has created an environment that makes it extremely difficult to recruit members for other boards the modifications proposed by Mr Trini to the sap are essential as Mr jaffre mentioned Common Sense many of those elements were specifically raised by employees in the listening sessions one of the most significant ones were they offered the sick page part-time employees was a town meeting that was worked on by the Personnel Committee in 20222 there is no need to further discuss this issue I want to also bring your attention to your condu how that how you conduct yourselves in these meetings have having the direct impact on our employees that was a feedback that you received during listening sessions in particular last week when Miss Emi asked Mr Lonzo to at least consider consider Merit pay his response was nothing short of disrespectful please Mr Lonzo watch that part of the meeting and again ask yourself how should Town employees feel about their requests after watching your replying and seeing your body language to their idea an idea that I will add was the same idea that Mrs Moore brought up as a go during the goal session so blocking a town meeting solution to a problem making it making the personnal committee impossible to recruit for and then using the absence of a personal committing as a reason why action can be taken to solve those problems right now sounds pretty close to insane to me but that's me in short I think we need more progress in town the new high school was a result of a determined diligent school committee that began back in 2004 when people work together in a constructive collaborative and persistent manner good things get done but on so many things lunberg has been stuck the past 20 years we watched the old primary deteriorate and become uninhabitable now 12 years after the the the TCP building ceased to function as a school much of it has become inhabit too unlike this school the schools Town leaders have failed to come together around shared goals and work together to do the steps needed to overcome the obstacles along the way for lunenberg to execute on any positive Vision we need we need leaders who can work collaborative with others they need to be good co-workers to those on their boards to staff and volunteers on other boards along with residents in town leaders need to be judicious but not domineering it must not specifically it must specifically respect the work of their colleagues when relationships and trust between them doing the work that to breaks down so much the decision that need to be made to move forward don't get paid the work doesn't get done and the stop the town stops function even the most basic level so thank you thank you Mrs Lockwood are there any other public comments from the public Mr chair I'd like to make a public comment sure um I think that what I want to offer is you know I was writing some notes and I think it's important for us to strive for civility um but democracy is messy um elected officials are not immune from criticism but we are not vessels of perfection um I think that we always and all the criticism that that we offer and that's provided and that is fair I think that we have free speech for a reason I certainly respect it I've absorbed criticisms directed towards me um but I just want to respond to some of the I want to react um and just say that I get it that sometimes you know and I don't want to take away from anyone else's truth um but I do I want to encourage all of us that as we offer criticisms of elected officials um you know to be mindful that you know when you I have pretty thick skin I think most people know that but you know when you are elected it doesn't suddenly make your thin SK your thin thicker that we're all still humans people still go home and and have personal feelings about the comments that are said about them um whether they're on this board or on another board and at the end of the day we also want to encourage other people to volunteer um so I just want to positively encourage um positive criticism uh that has a clear goal and inate that's achievable all right thank you any other public comments all right see you none we'll move on to announcements I have two yard waste this year fall dates begins this Saturday October 26th it's 8 a.m. to 400 p.m. for all Saturdays up to December 14th excluding Thanksgiving week it is at the L landfill on 27 Young's road you can bring leaves grass easily R materials no plastic bags stumps or household garbage and special town meeting is November 12th Tuesday November 12th at 7:00 p.m. at the Middle High School all right are there any other announcements Communications from other boards I don't have any does anyone else I do uh we have a request from the agricultural commission to come before us on the 4th of November uh they believe that they can provide the update under Communications from other boards they just want to make the board aware of a of a handful of things and I will give a community report related to them as well but that again they're looking for the meeting on the November the 4th and trusting that it will fit within Communications for yep we have it on the agenda for that reason all right all right cool the fourth is on Monday the I may have said the date wrong the first yeah the first meeting in uh fth in November thank you the 5th all right cool thank you all right moving on to uh scheduled meetings and hearings so we have a 7:15 public hearing for the transfer of licenses to St Mary and Christ Incorporated located One Main Street I will invite the applicants up and I will also ask the clerk to read the public hearing notice hey hi hold on one second she just has to read a notice and then we'll begin the lunberg licensing Authority will hold a public hearing on Tuesday October 1st 2024 at 7:05 p.m. on the application submitted by St Mary in Christ Inc for the transfer of an all alcoholic beverages General on premise license common vler jukebox and um weekday entertainment license located at 1 Main Street lunberg Massachusetts this premisis is described as a single story Lobby takeout counter bar area 22x 20t outdoor patio main dining area women's restrooms office storage area order area and cook Kitchen all right awesome thank you very much you're welcome all right so it looks like we have both uh co-owners here tonight uh so since we haven't seen you before if you wouldn't mind I would love to give you the opportunity to just introduce yourself and talk to us about your experience running businesses yeah uh Maggie teds uh I've been in the food business for about 25 years uh multiple places um uh most of it is like pizza uh restaurants and at one I had one adventure with full service uh restaurant like like bad Larry you know um and I had like a bar there and stuff um I think uh I don't know everything but like I think I know enough uh for me uh to run a successful business I've been doing it in too many places uh as of right now I own uh uh pizza place in Holden and I have a partner with another place in uh uh Worcester uh at certain point I had uh run four places in the same time uh I had really good uh Dependable uh help like of course I'm not going to be at four places in the same time but I had really good people that helped me you know uh but I was everything was under my management you know uh I I wasn't totally remote I went like couple days in each store to make sure still knowing that you have good help you I I had it's like my baby my child you know um so I had to make sure that uh it's going where I want it to be uh in bad Larry I have uh a good partner uh a certain time he worked for me too that how we get introduce to each other so I trust him and I depend on him and of course I'll be be uh helping I'm not going to be there every day uh but he will be the daytoday uh person over there open to close every day um uh at certain point I were I had uh a liquor uh convenience store um but I uh sold it to my BR mhm um okay that's it thank you you for that one question I am going to ask before we get started so in addition to licenses you to get through us you also need a food service license through the Board of Health I'm aware that you guys were in contact with them dating back to the early uh September timeline uh but an update that we received today so you guys still haven't submitted an application do you guys have a status update on that just so we're aware that it should I'll contact my lawyer I should uh she should submit the application but if it's not submitted tomorrow morning I will stop by and I uh you know the last time I uh I came up the uh whoever I talked to she said everything is all set MH you didn't mention anything and even I uh uh I had to write a a note over there so and uh I was under the impression that everything is all set the only thing we were waiting for is a liquor like license okay yeah you guys do need to follow the Board of Health to get that taken care of cuz that's required as well yeah that's absolutely fine okay so I just wanted to bring that up uh no particular order I'll open it up to the rest of the board for questions yeah I have a couple so um first of all thank you for coming here tonight I know that we we it been like you know like last last time I came from the hospital all the way to the door here but it was closed I was trying to explain what it going on you know but like uh well we're happy to have you here tonight yeah so I have I have a couple questions so as you know the select board is the licensing Authority for the alcohol license part of our requirements as stated in our alcohol regulation is to minimize potential violations you know we're trying to make sure that people don't get over served and that the wrong people don't get served so you know you guys as are you both of you together the applicant you're a corporate entity St Mary and Christ Inc all shares the corporation are held by the two of you guys Co you know guys are co-al Partners so it seems uh each of you has a 50% ownership stake so I do have a couple of questions so previously Mr um s candere is that am I saying that correctly um you stated that you have no experience serving alcohol but that you do have experience serving food I got that correct okay and then um Mr Truse you just stated that you have experience serving food and alcohol you just mentioned that you had a liquor convenience store um that you had a pizza restaurant I think you said that sold alcohol you just talk to me a little bit about the restaurants you had that sold alcohol that you were either owner of or manager of yeah that it wasn't in the state of MERS it was in Florida at certain time I moved there for two years and it was uh like a full surfice uh Italian restaurant and it had uh a bar the section of the uh restaurant was uh a bar uh that serve uh uh uh beer and wine it wasn't a full liquor license uh not like was a boring uh license that be and wine and uh but I know how to control it you know I know you know the boring how the overboard um like I know to do the measurement like how how many uh glasses you got from the bottle stuff like that and they had draft uh four or five uh uh beer on the draft and we had uh quite a bit of uh uh glasses and cans so uh so you were serving so you were serving alcohol as well as selling uh liquor it no it's a just serve in no no uh we not allow it to uh sell any containers okay so it's when I say cans and bottles that they will have it inside like a lot of beers you don't get it on the draft y I know what you mean like actually if you get you get four or five drafts on the beer uh those who serve in the picture but like uh some other uh like Sam Adam and whatever yeah you know uh Coronas and stuff like that the way that we all buy beers yeah you buy beers sometimes it comes draft sometimes it's but nobody is allowed to take any container out of the okay um so you know there's certainly nothing wrong with being a successful businessman uh with having multiple businesses but I do want to ask you a couple questions about the ones that you currently own or manage um So based on the information available on the Secretary of State's website it appears as though you Mr tus are the president secretary and director of George's Pizza 2 is that correct George's Pizza yeah yes and that's in Worcester yes all right so the one I have a partner with okay and and your partner is who and at f a t EF it's yep no okay you know have to spell it um so you're you you're also the president treasurer secretary and director of everything in goes P okay and and well I'm just family in DBA good as pza good okay and that's also an existing business yes and where's it at I just came from here and where's it at um in Holden Holden okay 1625 Main Street some if you put it Jefferson or Holden it's the same town okay and are you also the president director of I'm I'm going to say this incorrectly Pope aan POA sesus and caros Inc that was a restaurant that served breakfast and uh uh breakfast and lunch but you no longer own that business no longer own it I I had a partner and I sold it okay to him are you also the president treasurer secretary and director of T paron Inc yeah well that's not not in uh business for ler bed okay so but we we it's in the process of being closed okay yeah and what kind of business was that that was running at a restaurant too okay so that's a restaurant okay and did that restaurant serve alcohol uh no no okay and you're also the manager of Baldwinville Village Associates LLC is that correct or is that sir and what is that business do that owns a real estate real estate okay and you're also the president director of Virgin Mary and Pope and pop I'm going to say the name incorrectly um Inc is that correct that's the nuse yes yeah is you is that's a real estate too that's real estate okay all right you're a busy guy um so the application indicates Mr Shu that you had 150 Grand cash on hand to finance this transaction that there's no debt related to that is that correct that's between both of us right 150 between both of us I think the application settle was from you but anyway it's it is available okay have you um ever been you have a lot of businesses have you ever been fined or held in violation from any government town city state related to any of these businesses no okay so I received or reviewed an enforcement order issued by Holden Mass on September the 11th 2024 uh that indicates that you're the owner of property at 122 Jackson Street in Holden uh which is lakefront property that you received a violation last month for removing trees within the Wetland buffer zone I think is that approximately 10 trees yeah that's being resolved now we uh we have a restitution plan and actually I had to meet with uh uh uh with them today you know so that's uh the problem is like the uh border the like the borders of my uh thing was very hazy you don't have to get into the details what I'm saying like that's that being resolved now yeah we're not here for conservation I think the question that I asked you was if you have ever been um held in violation from any government town city related to any businesses that you own you said no and then the property at 122 Jackson Street you just said that you were issued I saw a violation order isssued from the town did you they asked you in that order from September 11th to attend a meeting on October the 2nd to discuss that violation did you attend that meeting yes sir okay that's how we got to the uh restitution plan okay and I hired uh one of the names that it wasn't their uh website okay and she is working with a Worcester uh water department and they came up to the uh think we going to reent some uh Y no we're not here for conservation I what I'm the question is related to compliance I mean things happen and so what I'm trying to understand by asking the question is you know there was issue you know how did you react to the issue that that and it sounds like you attended the meeting in the application that you sent to us I think it's page three of the abcc application section 6B it asks if you've previously held interest in an alcoholic beverage license and the answer is no um but you just said to us that you have owned two businesses that serve alcohol I'm a little confused can you help me understand no but that's like uh I thought that is uh like serving alcohol like um in the state of Massachusetts I I don't maybe that's a question we can get clarification on the way that I read this is 6B it says has any individual or entity identified in question six just to go up question six is asking who the um proposed officers it's asking basically who the proposed officer stock of ownership interest and that's where you guys are listed you uh and Mr sandare and then as you get down to the questions it says in 6B um previously held interest in alcoholic beverage license has any individual or entity identified in question six um and applicable attachments ever held a direct or indirect beneficial or financial interest and a license to sell alcoholic beverages which is not presently held and the answer was no I don't think it reads that in Massachusetts I think it was just asking if you've ever had a license to sell alcohol maybe I misunderstand that that question okay that's it that's all I have thank you but as if we speak now I don't hold any U interest thank you all right any other questions anyone can jump in so did I just hear you say you currently don't have any liquor license right now right now no do you have any more questions selectman M uh no sorry all right selectman Alonzo I didn't realize you're waiting on me no I'm satisfied with the documentation we have obviously they need the they need the approval with the Board of Health as you already mentioned but everything else I'm I'm fine with what was presented second more as i y how about you you have the most questions here yeah you know I think I do have some concerns um so I think that by all appearances it looks like both applicants are capable of holding a of doing the job and that's I think the question in front of us today so on that one I don't I don't I I think that I really appreciate you being here it's been really helpful to me as a member I think in the application uh I I I I read that 6B is incorrectly completed um that's my read but I but I do get it it's a state application and and one read could be it's asking if you've ever had one in the State um you know so I I read that one a little differently I I would consider that to be an incorrect you also said today uh and I have to get to the page but you know one of the things that it's required to be disclosed here tonight and it's on um it's on page five of the application where it asks for the source of the cash contribution uh and I think one of the things that we asked for is like hey is there a financial interest and it's not a it's normal you have most people don't have $150,000 sitting around so it's pretty normal to borrow money for 150 Grand it's it's a formality in my view um but you know what you said tonight was that the money came from both of you with the application 5050 with the application says is that it didn't so I mean there's some inconsistencies in this application um and and I'm that's what I'm identifying actually I want to mention that my lawyer is very uh it's in her maybe that's her first business uh transaction she would do so she her experience is not like up to the point yeah but I mean I hear you she's the one who who failed in submit application but you signed it I I understand that yeah I understand that but I from my view like it's normal to reach out to a lawyer to have help and assistance I don't no there's no shame in that we all everyone does it I think that you know it's just important for it to be right and for what you said tonight the application doesn't match what you're saying but again it seems as if you're capable of running the business you're able to run the business I don't know if these things are barriers we can we can re like um uh fix it and you know um resubmit it if you want to okay all right personally I'm satisfied with the way that you answer these questions um but again the Board of Health license is kind of an issue here in terms of moving forward uh so I I'm I'm not sure exactly what happened with that well if we can talk that that shouldn't be an issue like it's as as easy as just fill the application and usually they don't issu the license till after closing and they come and inspect a place and uh the issues a license I think I think I have a formality question on this one which is you know the request is to transfer the alcohol from I know Al's here but from Adam Warick to you guys right and so I think the formality question that I have is that if we hand you a a license today cuz I think we've already signed it that says here you go the transfer is done that what happens in reality to the business tomorrow because that means that we've now transferred the business from one entity to the other and the new entity doesn't have authorization from the Board of Health to actually operate so in my view that means you don't open tomorrow so I don't I don't know if it's in your best interest for us to give you a license today for that's signed by us that says we've approved all this stuff which I'm okay with approving it all but I think the Practical implication is that they no longer have the right to conduct business and that you do but you don't have the right Board of Health certification so you can't conduct business that's not on us we don't we're not the Board of Health but I I I just don't know what that practical implication is for you if we sign all this stuff tonight and then the plan as I understood it was that you're going to be working with with Adam and Al they're going to train you over the course of a month how does that happen when they no longer have valid license to operate and you don't have one either M doesn't the loal license need to be approved by the state the lior license it's a separate yes liquid license still has to go through it's a whole separate thing I'm speaking to everything else everything that we approved last we what I'm saying if you hand me the license today still it has to be approved from uh the state but that's the aloh that's so the AL thing yeah so we're talking about the the common Vic license uh that we gave you just to operate a restaurant that also requires in conjunction with that license that we gave you the food service license through the Board of Health you have to have both of those to operate the restaurant so we gave you one you guys still haven't gotten the other one yet so that's an issue moving forward once we give you the license I thought I felt that that bord of f application with the common vual license but anyway as I said tomorrow in the morning when the office is open I will it's just as easy as to up Li to it because I have my safe certificate Y and all you need to do is just come and inspect the place make sure there's no violations and that's it he gives the license right away I want you guys to be able to move forward but I just want us to come up with the solution here that doesn't create any more issues have we given them handed them over the common vet license well there that's the solution the solution is we won't hand it over until I have a board of health approval there you go that's that's simple enough and that's the reason why we haven't given it to you yet so we could continue to hold on to it until you have that license through the Board of Health even if you guys issues a license today we still didn't close on the place yet and there's closing document between both lawyers so that if we give him the uh green light today I I don't think we're going to be able to close before uh early next week till they both make sure that all the papers are uh up to satisfaction so I think when what I'm saying again um I will we will go tomorrow to the uh Board of houseal fill the application and even may maybe when I go home I download it and I fill it and I bring it and drop it off and give him the uh check for the uh the fee and that that right there that will resolve that yeah I I think the answer as Mr Lonzo just stated is I think that we need as a board to probably with your agreement I think we need to make a motion tonight to approve all this stuff again and make it contingent upon that board of health and that way the office can verify that um that can you know that once you get that Board of Health we hand you the license for everything and that way you don't run into a situation where the business can't operate if you guys want to sign on the dotted line and everything doesn't come through in time so we approve it all but you need to get the Board of Health to for us to hand it all to you yes that's what I would suggest to my colleag and that's absolutely no problem and that works for you that's just two separate votes we voted all the licenses last week we did so all we have to do is vote the liquor license and then we can vote to withhold the common vitler license until you have the Board of Health approval yeah okay but Mr chair I I I mean I have to say um to the applicant first of all it was it was in very bad light that you didn't show up twice and so I know that many people on this board were uh upset about that that M but I've also I want to comment that some of the questioning to the applicants went Way Beyond a fine tooth comb that I don't think anybody has ever been subject to where you're you're bringing out you're basically almost publicly shaming somebody because they had a conservation violation in another town completely uncalled for and completely off point for what's being asked of us so I think we should just keep on topic again I was not happy that the applicant was not here last week but you know questioning where he's getting his 150 ,000 from and questioning that he didn't answer a question right because it's it's unclear and even as somebody who's a native speaker it the question is unclear to me I mean just to bring out these things as potential you know Shady parts of the application I just was unnecessary yes I I understand but like the first time I thought one of us should be enough you know because one can represent that especially he's the president so he can because we are Incorporated so I thought that he can anybody any one of us would represent and can sign for the uh incorporation the second time that was out of my hand because I I went just to take the will take biopsy of my mouth I end up by it was like an incision biopsy in three spots in my mouth so my mouth was swolling I wasn't even a you don't have to go to the no so I'm I'm I'm explaining like I it's not disrespect or anything you know like we just you know how sometimes stuff doesn't go the way you want it you know it's like that's that's what we understand we're glad that you finally made it tonight and like I said I'm happy with the answers that you provided to the questions all right so we can move forward so we have to approve the all alcohol license and then if we want to do it as a separate motion to make the other licenses contingent upon the Board of Health approval well only one of only one of them needs to be contingent the common Vic yes so I would make a motion that we approve the all alcohol license uh transfer uh to St Mary and Christ Inc uh doing business uh located at One Main Street second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppose no the motion passes unanimously congratulations you now officially have all of your licenses at at least approved and I would move that we hold the common vitler license until such time as the applicants provide uh or till the board of health either one provides us with notification that they have the proper uh certificates from the Board of Health to serve food second any additional discussion all those in favor say I I I I those oppose no the motion passes unanimously all right so these are all signed and we will hand them off to you whenever we get that uh confirmation from the Board of Health uh what time he open in the morning the board of Health yes um I'm not sure 8 a.m. I think it opens at 8 but I'd be safe and say 8:30 street it's across is across the street yes I know you've been in contact with them so it's the same people that you've been talking to so yep oh tomorrow first thing tomorrow all right awesome thank you so much for coming in I'm glad that we were finally able to move this forward all right enjoy the rest of your night yep of course thank you you're welcome have a good night all right moving on to our next meeting we have a one-day entertainment license for American Graffiti at 1113 Summer Street for November 27th do you want to just let us know what the request is I think we have the paperwork here it's for a per a oneman band performance yeah just a one night uh weekly entertainment license okay I think it's November 27th that's correct yep um 7 :30 to 10:30 p.m. yeah we're going to close at 11: we close early way yeah cool no questions for me any questions from the board this is the day before Thanksgiving right yeah yep no questions like a big class reunion nice all right is there a motion I moveed to approve the one-day entertainment license for American Graffiti at 13 Summer Street on November the 27th from 7:30 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those poos no the motion passes unanimously all right awesome thanks for coming in that was very short and sweet hope it's a good evening for you all right all right moving on to the interim Town manager report uh with respect to our projects the library exterior paint project uh is almost finished they took advantage of the great weekend weather that we typically have in the fall here in New England uh they have a few punch list items to do uh we had anticipated as much as 2 months given the weather uh so we're glad that that one's uh coming to closure quickly our second DPW salt contract has been signed uh and I think I mentioned to you last week that the tree cutting services contract had come in a little bit above what we expected but they've agreed to uh accept the unit price uh at 475 not to exceed so we'll be able to proceed with that contract uh we have three bids due tomorrow all of which are arpa projects so that will help us uh get a clearer picture of uh where we stand uh and be able to report to you in much better detail uh at our next meeting uh that's the DPW garage flooring uh the partial roof replacement at the DPW and the sewer manhole Rehabilitation uh there was one agenda that went out and everyone has acknowledged or hopefully will acknowledge tomorrow when the bids come in uh we have two uh site visits scheduled the library teen room tomorrow at 1 p.m. and the town hall roof replacement is uh tomorrow and then again Thursday as we'd made that one mandatory uh both bids for those projects are due on November 4th which will be the day before our meeting of November 5th so that hopefully will give us as I say a much much better uh picture of where we are with respect to uh arpa uh the municipal building design committee I believe met last evening um and uh some some things to be provided to Julie uh so she can send out that agenda uh and the bids are due again November 4 at 12:00 p.m. uh the data collection Services contract uh had some last minute questions which with uh the chair of the board of assessors where a will resolve on Thursday uh and we are just simply awaiting for Vision to sign that contract uh at their end we um continue to have some open jobs as do many organizations in the State uh if you are enjoying watching this show uh on pack or uh talking baseball or even talking garbage with the folks from Sha any of those things uh they're brought to you uh by our volunteers and videographers uh and we are accepting applications uh anywhere from 2 to 10 hours per week so a great chance to uh learn how pack operates and um maybe you'll be the next YouTuber uh with what you learn uh we do continue to have sewer business manager and assistant sewer business manager um uh available uh and uh unfortunately we have a vacancy today as I've provided to you earlier uh in the truck driver labor category uh I want clear this does not require a commercial driver's license this with a regular driving license can drive uh up to one ton Vehicles which makes them able to to plow snow in our smaller vehicles uh so if you uh think you'd uh like to come to work for the municipality but you think a CDL license uh is required it's it's not for this job uh but Public Works will work with you to help you uh take that test um take the final test we we'll send one of our operators with one of the larger trucks so you can take your uh exam uh and help bring you along through the ranks so this is a a great opportunity for someone to to break into the municipal uh employee side uh we interviewed for our assessing administrative assistant and um keep keep your fingers crossed and light your candles we'll be making that offer tomorrow and we we hope will secure that candidate um in terms of General Communications that we informed you last week and I believe we supplied you with a copy of the memo that we sent out to all the flath hill uh residents um we did receive um a thank you for communicating on that um if you didn't get that last week I'll double check with Danny and just make we will make sure you get it uh tomorrow uh the sales data which forms the basis of our submission of proposed values uh was submitted this past week and has been approved uh we now submit our actual proposed values it's kind of a three-step process here uh and the board of assessing members need to sign that form uh but we expect to get that done this week and have an estimated tax rate uh by the special town meeting uh for you it won't be the classification hearing because of the 14-day notification requirement but we will be able to provide you assuming each submission is approved by the state uh this would only took them about 2 days uh to turn around um we should be able to provide you with that um estimate uh as you know we've been working with uh mark on the ludenberg connect program uh that is one of the Articles we'll be discussing here um I I believe the board actually already voted in favor of it I'd have to go back and double check um and um those fairs will be going up a little bit from what they are right now we were able to keep them reasonable I thought so a 1 to 10 Mile ride will go from 3 to 4 11 to 15 I believe goes from four to 5 in the 16 to 20 mile ride will be $7 uh to Emerson anyone anywhere in lunenberg irrespective of the distance I believe depending on where you are it's 25 or 26 mil to Emerson uh we'll be able to get that uh ride to Emerson Hospital from anywhere in lunenberg uh at $7 uh each way um so I want to thank Mark for working with us uh on that yes the fairs went up a little bit uh but we did that to try to keep the amount of tax subsidy we had to put in it down a little bit um uh with uh the assistance of the vice chair we uh uh signed off on a grant request from the Green community program for $225,000 on Friday I got a a a sort of a um hectic message from the school department they needed my signature so I sent the electronic signature down and then uh our vice chair a pinch hit for the the chair so we got that in on um Friday uh we did a staff training today on the challenges in dealing with First Amendment Auditors your electronic copy uh has a direct link to uh a news story about this we had about 15 folks in attendance I'm I'm not sure if they're here for the training or the pizza and salad but either way we got about 15 of them here um I had some brief conversations and they seem to think that it was worth investing their time um and agreed that U occasional training such as this would be useful and perhaps we should try to expand uh from a volunteer to a volunt basis of uh um who should be here uh but we're going to do a follow-up survey what did they like what didn't they like are there other subjects they think they'd like to have brought to their attention sooner but it worked out pretty well uh Julie and Annie just set up the chairs and and used the TV monitor right there as opposed to trying to get it onto the screen uh so I thought that went uh went fairly well uh we have been advised that the apdc and the historic commission have both voted to urge a merger of the two boards uh setting aside the merits of that once we receive the those two boards one more time uh the apdc yep and the historic commission um setting aside the merits of that and how you would actually do it uh we await their actual minutes and votes from them and then we'll forward those to Town Council for review and discussion um there are some hurdles U I think both technically and philosophically that you'll need to discuss uh once we can get those votes and uh talk about a potential approach for your consideration uh we have uh agricultural commission um apdc Board of Health vacancies the Conservation Commission uh the cultural Council a finance committee though we're down to two vacancies uh not three my apologies the green communities committee that historical commission also has vacancies and I think that may be what's driving this conversation between the apdc and the historical uh commission uh Library Board of Trustees master plan steering committee uh the Personnel uh committee uh storm water task force and the zoning board of appeals uh we are trying to uh do a um a review of all those appointments our process of keeping track of all the vacancies is not as smooth as I I think um so Annie's trying to go through all that and get the new listings up on the website um I did attend the budget task force uh last evening and I believe member m will report upon that under u a member input so I'll leave it at that um and that is all that I have for you this week unless there are any questions with respect to it any questions for Carter I have one if the la4 is certified this week um I was told it was certified today it was today okay so what's our timeline now for New Growth certification uh so what happens next uh is you submit the statistical update that's the all the sales values um and they're expecting to get that in this week and then we should be able to get the new growth certified by mid next week so before special town meeting yes we expect to be a assuming it goes as easily as the first submission went we should be able to have it for you uh perhaps even by the 5th of November we simply won't be able to have the classification hearing uh for you uh because of the 14-day notification requirement uh and it still requires publication in a local newspaper of General circulation and unfortunately I think you have a weekly here yeah um so that actually elongates that a bit but yes we should be able to have an estimated tax rate for you that's good I I think the certification of the new growth before special town meeting is a higher is of more importance than the classification hearing before special town meeting uh with respect to that when we get into the warrant uh it was brought to my attention this past Friday that there's sort of a a a historic or a perennial article one and I have that to distribute uh at the end um we would just update it to be for the correct year uh and I would make it number one and just bump everything whatever remains after your votes tonight have to be number one um yes yeah yes of course uh but that would just bump everything down uh by one or unless you knock something off the warrant completely any other questions all right thank you very much Carter moving on to Old business is there any other status update on arpa that you'd like to add Carter um all I can say is watch that space tomorrow and then on November 4 those are sort of our our big um our big question marks to answer that really will put the picture in focus for us any questions or comments on arpa tonight all right moving on to current business first up we have action regarding agreement extension for the interim Town manager so per the charter we can have an interim Town manager for 90 days and we are allowed to renew that once and 3 months is coming up at the end of this month so it's time for us to decide if we're going to renew Carter's contract or not uh in my opinion Carter I think you're doing a great job I think we are getting more out of your employment here than I would have expected for an interim Town manager so it is an easy yes for me so I'll open it up to the board is it the same terms as existing yep it's just a renewal for an additional 90 days I concur I'd like to ask if if the interim Town manager could address the news we received this week about the other position sure um I pledge to you that I'd be here physically 3 days a week uh and give you a minimum of 25 hours a week uh I think I've shown that it's actually closer to 30 um Friday's event in which I got sort of a panic call around 3:00 uh and we got that addressed very quickly uh before the end of the day I think shows that um you know even if I'm not here not on your clock we get that turned around quickly uh had something similar yesterday with one of your committee members uh for my home Community um I was asked to step in I told them that I could only do uh two days a week because I had a commitment to this community um similarly frankly um as I took that 15 minute or 20 minute call on Friday uh from you there might be a day when I take a 15 or 20 minute call from them um they understand that it is most likely I will not be at their select board meetings they start at 5:00 p.m. uh this is uh I guess I've always been kind of a workaholic uh this is what I did for Templeton and Grafton uh for four months I managed both communities I think that if anyone was to speak with either of them uh they would agree that uh they provided they got the services that they were promised uh plus more um I understand the board's concern I think that my uh contract did allow for other employment um I understand the board's concern um and would fully respect the decision to not extend the contract based upon that concern so I'd be lying if I said I didn't have concerns um the news release I read stated that you would physically be in town hall in Molton Boro um several days a week to me several is more than two so does you your contract yeah what can I'd be happy to provide you with my it's a public document happy to provide you with a contra copy of my contract up there it's two days a week I can't control how the chairman of the select board issues a press release uh but happy to send that out to you I think I have it access from here and I'll get that out to you in the morning and then maybe my last question can you speak to so you mentioned you had a I think it was a three month overlap right with Grafton and Templeton MH we're there's a lot going on here we're heading into a special to meeting we're heading in the budget season can you speak to what was going on in those Towns at that time anything similar uh when um well first it was in the midst of Co so that had considerable challenges by itself uh Grafton did not have a finance director was going through some challenges in its fire department uh I had to prepare the budget in both communities and um just bear with me for a moment oh yes um I also to deal with the fact that they had an override uh part of which was to fund a Special Reserve fund but they hadn't raised it in Appropriations so we had to talk them through the fact that if they didn't approach apprpriate anything in year two a 2 1/2% increase on zero was 22% uh also the administrative uh the um assistant Town manager um had been denied the opportunity to be uh actually in Grafton its Town Administrator had been denied the opportunity to be the acting Town Administrator felt great loyalty to the uh Town Administrator who had been separated from the employee of the town uh and quit 3 days into the job uh so I think it was it was pretty busy at that point um and in that point in time we still had not financed a finalized uh the financial picture for Templeton they'd not had an AIT in um I believe it was three perhaps four years uh and so we still had to get them uh on a clearer path and they were under Revenue watch from the Department uh of Revenue um so there was there was quite a bit going on there also so when I I I was quite shocked when I got told the news on Monday yesterday and was actually shocked for first of all taking of the job and then the fact that we found out the way we found out instead of from you directly uh which was another problem from my perspective uh the contract does indeed your contract here does indeed say that you're not precluded from doing other jobs but it certainly contemplates things like in fact clearly states teaching or consulting or anything that shall not conflict with the interest of the town so taking another interim Town Administrator position of that magnitude I don't see from my perspective how that could not interfere with the interest of the town with what's already being done um equally the fact that one of them is your hometown and where allegiances lie uh if there was a conflict uh I'm not again I don't know you well enough so I have I don't have any confidence one way or another that that that work would not get precedence and how it would not impact this and I think as as a member of this board I owe it to the citizens of the town to ensure that we get the services we pay for and I think that would impact that so for those reasons I don't see myself getting to a yes on the extension of the contract it has nothing to do with what your performance has been to this date but I am not confident that that will not be impacted going forward I understand your concerns I have no um personal difficulty with you casting a vote that's in keeping with those I promised you three days a week 25 hours I promis you I would do what I said I would do and I promised I would stay with you for however long it took to get you through I have kept each and every promise to each and every community that I've worked for um yes it's my hometown um in the commutes Tad EAS here uh but I have a obligation to perform what I said I would do for you you don't know me well enough other than the three or so months we spent together I can't speak to it any better than that so I'm just going to read from the contract so the actual language here says nothing contained herein shall prohibit the interim Town manager from engaging in teaching consulting or other employee provided such Services service shall not conflict with the interests of the town for example preparing Grant applications for others engaging in professional recruting recruitment for others for a position at the same time as the town is engaged in such Recruitment and the like and he shall otherwise fully meet his obligations here under I have every confidence that Carter would not take this role without really considering whether or not that he would still his obligations here and in my workings with him I have full faith in his professionalism and his commitment so still a yes for me also a yes for me I think that Carter has done a fantastic job I think um from my personal experience and the things that I I've been really invested in since I've came on the board and since I was an employee um and you know still having relationships with many Town employees I've heard nothing but positive feedback for the things that have changed and have been done um and I'd like to continue to see that momentum and I wouldn't want to see us in a position where we didn't have a town manager so I am a yes on the extension and I appreciate uh the work that is being done you know would it have been nice to have a heads up that that was coming absolutely um but I I trust especially knowing that you Carter has had more than one of these positions at the same time previously that um he will fulfill his commitments to us all right well is there a motion then well U Can I ask I have one more question for Carter and then maybe for the rest of us um can I ask Carter why why we didn't get notified earlier I screwed up okay I simply didn't think to push it out um when I should have I can't be any more honest with you than that okay I appreciate that and it was within a business day right we did get an email from you the next business day the morning well social media is what it is I ow you that um I'll acknowledge that social media and the internet it has sped up communications it was effective Friday our expectations of it so I I think the easiest thing is to take ownership of it I've always found that's the best way to do it I agree I should have gotten you that notice I simple as terms screwed up um I've apologized in the email um I think uh I'll apologize to you here on the record uh and that's the only explanation I can give I appreciate that I appreciate your honesty um the question more general question for for the board is what what happens if we don't extend the contract well I mean I think that we have three votes tonight to extend the contract so I I don't know if that's that's a very rhetorical question well I'll answer it if we don't then we end up without a town manager no not a situation I think we should put the town in in my opinion more specifically what how do we go how would we go about What's the timing what's what's the impact of not having a town manager for how long would nothing I want to consider so I really appreciate getting answers to my questions I mean if I may Mr chair I mean I I I think that you know you're asking a a theoretical question simy but I think you know I think it's good for the public to know what we're when you're making a decision knowing the impact of a decision I think is is fair and I think we deserve it to the public no can do you not agree uh I I think it's self-evident that you know we have an assistant Town manager that would need to you know step into the role on on a temporary basis if she's interested and if and we're willing to appoint but I think the same process that we underwent um to hire a new town manager uh or to hire an interum is the same process we would need to undergo to um replace or to fill any void in town manager so I mean previously we got a notification it took us almost 2 months uh to fill the vacancy so I think that the implication is that we would go through all of November and and likely most of December um and not have a town manager and that at some point in January that we may have an interim for two weeks because I think at this point what we as I understand from our private or not private but from our email Communications you know we're being asked when we're available in January to interview potential Town managers so I I think it's on the agenda that we're likely going to conduct a hiring at some point in January uh that's the presumption at least and that and that the effective date would be at some point prior to the end of the month or first week of February so I mean realistically who would take a job for two weeks and what would be the point of hiring some for two weeks so I think we would just be without a town manager for three months I I think the I not sure that we would have to and this is my question would we have to repost or could we go back to the pool we had which would significantly shorten that timeline my understanding is we could go back to the pool we had Mr chair are you looking for a motion I am looking for a motion uh I move to extend the contract for the interim Town manager for 90 days second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppos no no no the motion passes 3 to two happy birthday Carter thank you very much I appreciate you tremendously I want you to know that and as I said I have full confidence that you would not have taken this other role without knowing if there would have been any impact on your ability here in town and I just well I I want to be clear I don't take the vote as a lack of confidence in my skill or abilities or I or lack of appreciation of what's been done yeah um exactly don't put words in there's a there's a point of view and they need to vote their convictions and any night that I walk out of a board meeting still having the jobs a good night all right well we achieved that all right moving on review and approval of special TI meeting warrant articles so we're going to continue to review and vote to make recommendations we do also have to vote to accept the warrant articles that we have um accept the citizens Petition of course uh so what does the board think do we want to do that in bulk or do we want to go through one by one uh I'm in favor of bulk onless any member wants to pull something out uh we did have some uh questions and we tried to answer those within the notations happy to walk through those uh and also there is a um article that we need to add that is a I guess I'd call it a legacy article yep so do any members want to pull out any warrant articles yes okay so how many do you want to consider removing them from the warrant so that they wouldn't be brought to special town meeting we do also have some that await uh either a vote this evening or a to be deferred yeah I thought we had a lot of them that we were going to be coming back to tonight but okay yep so we're going to revisit all of them the ones that we haven't voted to make recommendations we'll see if we're in a position to vote on them tonight uh if not we can also defer at this point tonight um but whether or not we want to actually include the articles in the warrant that get sent out whether or not they'll be considered at town meeting is something that we have to decide as a board as well all right so selectman Alonzo it sounded like you wanted to consider pulling articles out which ones are those just so I can make a list I'm getting to the numbers okay you want to just do it when you get to them yeah I I was thinking since we're going to consider pulling some out that we can just vote to accept one by one as we go through them but I just want to know two sap articles 10 and and 11 all right the sap articles is that it you want to remove them from the article yep any others all right the reasons I gave last week that I can reiterate here okay so we'll go through article by article um all right so we're going to start with article one authorization to pay late bills and funding thereof so we do have a note here we got our question answered the late bill is from Canon Financial Services which was uh for school department copiers and it looks like we did not vote on this one are we ready to vote to recommend approval on this one move that we recommend approval of article one second any additional discussion uh just as a comment Mr chair um I know that we did last week make recommendations or not um but I think um just you I don't know if it matters too much but we might want to accept them before we re make recom ation on oh yeah good point my my bad I didn't want to do that all right so is there a motion to accept and recommend approval for article one so moved second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I those oppose no motion passes unanimously all right moving on to article two amending School fiscal year 25 budget did we vote on this one last week no we we did not question about yes the what the 31,000 $882 was for and and I I recall it being some kind of reconciliation um but I don't remember if we have that Clarity we did get that Clarity my understanding is that it's some Reserve account for salaries let me yes here it is I believe we distributed that we got an email from yep we did uh the funds will go to the line item of salary reserves yep to address critical Staffing and compensation shortfalls so that's where it'll go I mean I just have to say like additional Chapter 70 funding definitely should go to the school so but yeah it's going to go to salary reserves does it need to say that in the article um no because it's one the school is one line item on our budget so yep yep fair enough is there a motion to accept and recommend approval um Mr chair I move to accept Article 2 as presented and recommend approval uh from the select Board second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppose no the motion pass unanimously all right moving on to article three we did recommend approval so we're going to skip that that's the mark connect accept oh yep my bad sorry thank you guys Mr chair move to accept article three as presented any additional discussion those in favor say I I I I those oppos no the motion passes unanimously all right can we go back did I understand somebody say the school department is part of your total bottom line budget it's not voted SCH I I me to say that in our operating budget uh the school department is just one line item so there's nothing really for us when we're allocating but but I may need to amend the total bottom line if you have it as just a department within yes 4 million I may have to add the 24881 now also goes to let's say 42 million 31,000 so I need to look at the bottom line of the operating budget you have to update I I might I'm going have to update the total so I I'll have to look at that in the morning okay all right so we just did article three and now article four adoption approved investor rule so we did have some questions I know we've had uh some documents that were sent to us does anyone have any remaining questions about what constitute a prudent investment no no all right is there a motion to accept and recommend approval so moved second any additional discussion uh I'm I do think that article 4 should be accepted but I do want to not recommend approval of the request that's fine um so do you want to can we separate I'll resend my motion and make a motion to accept article four second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppose no and make a motion that we recommend approval for our article for second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I those oppos no no the motion passes 4 to one I'm just curious as to why you um don't want to recommend approval for that one yeah I mean I think that the library has been a great example of the fact that you know when you when you make the change that it can result in a in in increase in uh in income um you know my concern is that not not all times in the market are going to be as good as the last several years and that you know I think that sometimes the low yields uh are safer uh there's a little little less risk involved uh and so I I prefer a little less risk uh when it comes to um these things so yeah that's why I get that I mean it's sure it's technically a little riskier but we're still talking about mutual funds and ETFs not like we're putting all the town's money into crypto no I expect it to pass I think most people are going to agree with it I just personally don't that's fine all right is is it local custom to explain dissenting votes the reasons during discussion but no it's not required yeah certainly not in the war at town meeting you talking about no no I'm talking in the in the summary not in the document no no no okay all right moving on to Article 5 adopting certain Clauses relative to tax exemptions so it looks like we have a lot of updates here to uh specify what they're for so I'll just read it to see if the will vote to accept Clause 17th e and Clause 17th F both relative to the elderly surviving spouses minor child of a deceased parent and Clause 41d re that's a typle right there relative to the elderly of Section 5 of Mass General Law chapter 59 or take any other action relative there too are there any remaining questions on this one oh do we already vote on this one we did did you you had uh based on the record I had um my notes might be off you had some questions with respect to the language the assessors have reworked it and said that they're going to prepare a a full handout for the the town meeting so this is the substitute language that I got last um last Thursday okay coming out of our discussion last week okay I I will say I watched the board of assessors meeting after our meeting and uh s camera did a great job of just very simple Bottom Line This is what it means and so if anyone in the public saw that or wants to see it it was very good yeah the current the summary makes sense the lines after the summary where they talk about what adopting it everything would be and then whatever that chart is supposed to be afterward is not at all clarifying right they' they've struck all of that you'll see no no no not not not yeah I see the stuff that struck but the stuff that goes over 41c and 41c assets and exemptions and it says 41d will replace 41 C when 41c I I I don't think is even mentioned in the thing so it's just wildly uh confusing to people uh that even that summary but if there's going to be a presentation fine I also made a note of that the actual wording of the article has Clause 17th I don't know why it's ordinal there when Clause 41 is not Clause 41st so either it's ordinal or regular numbers uh with respect to the new language we used right out of the uh statute we didn't attempt to go back in and correct any prior acceptances um and also with respect to the wording um I simply took what the office of the board of assessors gave me respected their um elected position and their desires y that's fair okay um Tom you're at the same meeting I was I was simply trying to honor their uh no no I'm not talking about the description the summary I'm talking about the the sentence of the article itself yeah that's the way it's presented 17th e 17th F that is exactly the way it is in the legislation and but Clause 41 just says Clause 41 not Clause 41st anyway it's irrelevant it's a technical matter let's go on all right is there a motion to accept then I will however go back and and uh double check the legislation I understand no no I want to get it right y I'll double check but I'm pretty sure that that is well we'll double check it I move to accept uh Article 5 as presented second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppose no the motion passes unanimously all right moving on to article six move with the accept article six second any additional discussion those in favor say I uh I I I will abstain from this one all right those oppose no any abstentions I abstain yes all right the motion passes 401 are you looking for a recommendation I am yes I move to defer I I abstained from the wrong yes no that's fine that's fine that's fine yeah I'm Asain from the next one okay I'm I move to defer article six second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I those oppos no do you are you okay with deferring it you want to okay any exensions uh yes all right the motion passes 401 to defer defer to we're going to give our opinion to to special time all right usually on the deferments we don't count the votes though we just say deferred right but you made a motion to defer so yeah I had to no I'm saying for for him we just say it's deferred so I'll just use the uh same as I have for the finance committee yeah deferred yep uh well they say to be made at or prior to the meeting so you want me to say is that okay we usually just put the word deferred deferred okay yeah because we can do it at the meeting I think often times if if new information comes out we can make the recommendation before the meeting then we do but I think in this case I want to hear the presentation sure okay all right article seven Council on Aging revolving fund meals program we move that we include it second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppose no the motion passes unanimously and it looks like we did vote to recommend this one last week which one was that seven yeah seven all right moving on to eight parks department revolving fund I move that we include article Eight Second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I I those oppos no the motion passes unanimously is there a motion to recommend approval I recommend that we approve article 8 second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I those oppose no the motion passes unanimously all right on to article 9 move that we include article nine hold what's for article nine okay the Brooks house okay go ahead second any additional discussion yes um the minister design committee did have a presentation last night um and we support this article all right great to know those in favor say I I I those oppose no the motion passes unanimously and I believe we did yes we did we voted to recommend this one already all right moving on article 10 salary administ salary Administration plan amendments base proposal so I'm going to pass it off to Carter for this one this was one article and Carter you split it into to two so if you want to just tell us which one's in article 10 versus article 11 uh sure um uh frankly I tried to split them apart in terms of the pieces I thought might be able to achieve the most support versus the piece that I thought might receive less support uh so this section um provides a mechanism uh for a starting hiring rate uh as high as step four um after consultation with the chair of the Personnel committee uh and then above step for it requires a formal vote uh the reason for this as I uh spoke to a little bit is that whenever you want to hire someone above the starting rate uh first the HR has to notify uh the uh Personnel committee you have to c a date that hopefully people could make for a meeting get it posted await the posting period uh and hopefully have a quorum to act during that four plus or minus days um assuming we do in fact have a quum for the meeting to act uh my fear is that in today's market you lose prospective uh employees the second piece of that um in terms of B and C uh speak to new definitions in terms of ranking ranking people as part-time a or part-time B employees uh that is because of the definition that you had on your intermittence that doesn't really uh fit uh d uh and I've had some conversations with some folks who are um provides special merit awards in three categories it is not a requirement that they be awarded each year if they're not worthy nominees um I have had some discussions of will it turn into a popularity contest uh uh frankly it could this will depend to some degree on the backbone of the Town manager uh if there is not a worthy nominee uh to not make an award simply to make it uh the other discussion item was whether or not uh some of the uh category names are accurately um captured the the definition for uh you know let's say the efficiency it's it's not just um you know we talked about people stepping up stepping in Cross trining um uh you know suggesting ideas that result in ease of processing Savings of time and material um I'm not wed to the nomenclature if there's an idea that there's a a better name for that category uh this is one of the things that came out of the listening sessions employee recognition uh programs um uh the recruitment incentive uh that is we do get some new people that start uh and the prospect of awaiting any time off uh for 6 months especially uh someone who has perhaps some some uh doctor's appointments prescheduled uh young children and the like uh the idea here is that we would give them 5 days of leave time uh and then we would CLA it back over time so this isn't yes it's it's frontloading their leave Bank uh but then as they earn time that is um a CLA back um we did not include vacations for uh the partime employees at this point in time that is one item that we moved into the second article uh we did however uh talk about the ability to recognize prior experience uh and I've uh did send out with the the one board member I was talking with some examples from others in one town um it actually allows if you were at another town for 15 years you come into their town at 15 years so if you get four weeks you're going to get four weeks here our proposal is to cap it at three um so communities are starting to recognize the challenge of attracting Talent uh when a move might cause somebody to go from three or four or even five weeks of vacation back to a starting point of depending upon the community you're in one week or two weeks um I wouldn't necessarily say all communities are recognizing it but they are starting to recognize it and I think that's a trend uh that will continue to grow uh we did leave holiday pay was something very strongly mentioned uh in the listening sessions um particularly if we have an employee who's working part-time and they're making a go of it by working another part-time job they can't just come in if it's a Monday holiday they lose that day pay but they can't come in on Tuesday to make up for it because they have another part-time job elsewhere uh so um we have said that those people um our part-time a uh not our intermittents not our seasonals would receive holiday pay um provided uh they were regularly scheduled to work on that day so if your week is Monday Wednesday and Thursday thday or Monday and Thursday and the holidays Monday you do get paid for the hours you were scheduled for uh but there is a Prohibition on trying to change your schedule or for having your employer change your your supervisor change your schedule so you can't get holiday pay and then come in on Tuesday and work uh there is some loss in productivity um I believe we sent you a grid on that um and then you do have to weigh the loss of productivity versus some increased level of employee satisfaction um and that's that's much more subjective Balancing Act than objective uh We've made it clear that those employees would not be eligible for the floating holiday we haven't that's just it's a calculation and it's just it's just not worth it in our opinion we have proposed the creation of a sickle bank that would be uh done in conjunction with a policy uh created by this select board after consultation with the Personnel committee um we would certainly have tried to respect the possibility that that committee will be uh restaff and be functional um should it not uh you could adopt that policy see how it works for a year or two uh and then have further consultations with the Personnel committee uh this um uh we tried to uh flesh it out a little bit more um you could have an initial draw of 20 days a secondary draw of 20 um because people had some questions as to how it might work so we tried to add some language there to do that this also came out of our listening sessions in which people spoke of well in this department somebody was sick and they were allowed to donate time but then one of our people was sick and so we're trying to move from sort of a um Singularity and favoritism oneoff kind of decision making to one more of a consistent um approach based upon written policy now I have had a question of does this change any any Union contracts or any individual contracts it does not uh should the unions want this you would have to have a discussion with them and enter into a side letter um I I frankly think that both of these um would be well received and I I don't see any point in trying to claw back any any paybacks on them um excuse me um Town Council uh did advise on the jury duty this is uh you know a recent addition late today uh that um jury Duty has to be paid for everybody across the board um well for the part-time not for the intermittent seasonals um and the longevity we made it clear um that the uh less than 20 hours what we're calling part-time a classification would not be eligible for the longevity and we've changed a couple of the definitions to try to um address that uh the employment contracts we've had a question about well who are these other type of people uh and so I gave an example of you know technically under the reorganization for the land use Department as I read it and I I could be wrong your building inspector is not a department head for the purposes of contract and there's not statutory Authority so the town manager could come in and say building inspectors are in really really short supply um I'd like to be able to use a section the board would have to make a decision um I would also point out that these uh are for um um limited terms they're for three years and that they are subject to the approval of this this body so we took those things that we thought um might might best receive support and put them into one uh and in article 11 we moved the vacation uh and sick leave into article 11 and we capped it at two weeks we think that with part-time employees quite frankly um whether they're here three years or 20 years two weeks of paid vacation for the part-time employees is reasonable um and so we we're hopeful that by capping it we could quite frankly gain some additional support on that as well um I think that that walks through all the things that we've we've done here there um and happy to answer uh any any questions so one question that I have in particular is about the Personnel committee uh and the first mention of it all the way up the top uh compensation increases so what do we do if there is no Personnel committee who can formally vote to approve um increases or or um setting someone at Step Above step four uh the way the sap is um well first without a Personnel committee um the bylaw or the code uh actually devolves that decision to the uh Town manager I think that that's uh not a good situation in this instance um this language is specifically intended to limit the capability of the Town manager uh in this role we could add a line uh in the absence um of a quorum of the Personnel Board to act upon this uh such decision shall be made by the select board we we could do that uh frankly I don't anticipate um coming in above step four um but I won't be here hopefully I'll be here another 90 days or you know 93 whatever that takes uh but we could certainly I think do something with that to uh to address that concern I mean I don't feel strongly about it either way I just wanted to make sure that in terms of language and the bylaw that that situation that we're in right now is covered um or we could make it really clear you know in the absence of the a formal action by the Personnel Board the town manager has no Authority Beyond this point I mean the the point of that is to cap it and I did have a discussion with one member about that uh we talked about step three we talked about step four um I think we reached an accord on step four but I think we were in full agreement that it needed to be capped that the town manager couldn't just do whatever the blue blazes they wanted yeah yeah no I understand I I would like to say that um I've had comments from another board members I've had a you know a board member to take time out of their workday to review this and I I do want to appreciate the I I think um one board member was kind of nodding off as they were working through it I think that was their comment uh I do want to thank the board for their input um and inability to respond to their concerns and comments absolutely all right I'll open up for discussion so I have a few questions or do you have questions oh go ahead go ahead I just have a comment so you you said several times that we reviewed this this is what we chose who can you explain to the people who the we are sure um we went through a process which and I I use we a lot so I'm not using the word um we went through a process where we first collected the uh concerns and comments of the staff in those listening sessions uh we gave the board sort of a 30,000 uh foot overview of you will of the main concerns that we captured and what we might be doing to address that uh then um Julie your uh HR um and assistant Town manager uh and I worked through uh different language uh some of that was bounced off of uh department head meetings uh what do you think about this amount what do you think about that amount what do you think is the most important thing uh the document was then circulated to I forget exactly how many I think there was 79 um whatever group of employees Julie has in her email Blaster it went out to 79 plus or minus Town employees uh I'm not sure they're necessarily highly critical cuz quite frankly these are favorable things to them um also it was reviewed uh on U three separate occasions uh with Mark Terry uh once at length over probably an hour and a half Zoom to go through word by word bounce some concerns back and forth uh so um that's that's the collective body of folks that were involved in one fashion or another at one point or multiple points how many listening sessions were there there were two uh and some emails when was the last one uh I believe they were September 24 and September 25 I'd have to go back and is that if that's a Wednesday and a Thursday just a pro I mean so the end of September yeah so less than a month ago yes well at a month ago yep okay yep um Financial impact will this have a financial impact it will have a productivity impact so let's talk about the financial impact uh would someone be offered a higher starting salary than under the current system I think it's frankly going to end up six of one half a dozen of the other the question is one of frankly speak being able to do it more efficiently um so I'm not sure that there's any cost impact there uh the holiday pay um many of the folks those that can are trying to shift their days a little bit uh so if you have someone who's currently working Monday Wednesday and Thursday let's say and they get paid for a holiday yes they're six hours on Monday they'll now get paid for uh if that person in another department is Shifting to Tuesday you're paying them so that won't um I'd have to go back and calculate exactly what that is I think the larger issue is um with the second article which extends vacation and sickle that has the financial you presented them in the collective I asking the collective do will this have a financial impact I would estimate the financial impact less than $5,000 I would say the real impact is the productivity loss on that grid that I sent you of how many hours uh might be lost during the course of the year if someone was eligible for all the holidays as we projected and the vacation and they took 100% of the sick leave uh that generally doesn't happen frankly the grids that I got sent didn't have any attachment to anything so they just floated in the air I don't know what grid attached to what so I don't know what the grid G me until you just said it okay so so it am I correct in saying it will have a financial impact in the collective if passed modestly yes okay do we have those financial impact statements do we know what that will impact approximately $5,000 a year is my best estimate but it's just the head calculation there's nothing you can show me that shows that I'd have to analyze a couple years of Staffing changes to see if somebody who worked on a Monday switched to a Tuesday we we could do that right well I mean generally that is again those kind of impact statements I'm assuming I don't want to take the finance committees you know Thunder but I'm assuming they'll ask that on on Thursday uh because if it has an impact and then of course it does have an impact with the sick Bank indirectly for how it might affect employee uh contracts Union contracts because of course if that's there then it's going to move somewhere else my next question would be uh it was raised by the chair just now about in the beginning of this about the authority of the Personnel committee and them formally approving this well the formal the Personnel committee has a role in town government and one of those roles is to review these and I mentioned this last week and I mentioned I'll mention it again without any committee thus comprised to review it it has no had no eyes basically except for you and the the interim uh not the the assistant Town manager HR director for the most part I mean you said you've met here and there but this board this is the first that we're discussing this and it was put together after the listing sessions which were a month ago so you went from listening sessions to a six page six pages of changes and additions one of them including a sick bank that doesn't do anything except tell people that eventually we're going to have a sick Bank policy but then goes on to make restrictions on that policy that doesn't exist yet and all of these without review both by this board and most importantly to the public uh for their review they're not going to get this in any form until a week and a half two weeks and that means they'll have one week to review this and find out whether they should vote for this or not with from my perspective no data just no data except that this came out in the listening session so that's why I would like it pulled there are things that are important in this and I think there are things that need to be addressed in here absolutely I just would like to do it in a thorough way one of the first things I mentioned when when our interm toown manager was hired was what I want them to do is stay the course I don't want wild changes without a permanent without a permanent review and this is one of those changes this is this is a very large change with no committee oversight because we don't have that committee uh the reason why we don't have that committee we were told this evening by my fan base is because I I somehow dissed the Personnel committee which I don't understand why I was slight you know targeted for that but that is not the reason the personnel committee left and I would recommend people talk to the prior Personnel committee for why they left but anyway without oversight from a committee that's required to do this I don't think it should be included for those reasons and because it hasn't been out in the public long enough for anybody to even discuss them this will be our last meeting and we have one more meeting before town meeting I don't know how that gives anybody enough time to understand this when again I'm giv charts and I don't fully I mean understand the ramification of the wording of some of this the only thing I would like to say in response is I was also tasked with attempting to listen uh to the employees and make the efforts uh that I thought we could make to restore morale and confidence in the town as an employer um guess I would have like more time to roll this out um and yes this is a little bit more than I would normally present as an interim Town manager mhm uh but I do feel that this is uh somewhat consistent with that that second task that I was given was was to listen to those employees and attempt to improve our Recruitment and morale right I would and and my response back would be I and you've done that nobody said I I don't remember saying that we should rebuild or revamp the sap I think we wanted to gather that information and I would commit to the the employees of the Town who again I want to be clear I think do you know yhip in in what their jobs are and what they're doing and I want to approach this you know comprehensively and thoughtfully and come up with something that will be easily explained and easily digested from people after everybody who is required to do it reviews it the only other comment I might make if I might Mr chairman is that I certainly would hope that you get sufficient volunteers to fill all your committees but whether you should you withhold this to not withhold it but you you hold on to this tonight for future work I do think that um The Board needs to understand that if you are not able to fill all those vacancies it will ultimately end up uh being the de facto Personnel committee for purposes of reviewing the in making that submission thank you Mr chair Mr chair I have some comments yep um I certainly appreciate you know how quickly this is being moved but I think I I probably say it at every meeting um this is something that I am really passionate about I I I did spend some time working with Carter just having discussions about it I've done a lot of research um even before these things were brought forward for you know just working through for the town um and with different members of different unions I know this is sap but just in general um I definitely understand the concerns about the pace but I think there these changes are essential to support our employees and to ensure that we remain competitive I think the updates to the vacation sick leave and holiday pay especially for part-time employees are a step toward greater fairness and Equity I think uh there has been several situations where we have extended offers that have not been received because or have not been accepted because we don't have these things in our um in our sap I think part-time workers are vital to our team and offering these pro-rated benefits will help us retain and attract that Talent um the flex additionally I think the flexibility to adjust compensation for new hires and introduced recruitment incentives will allow us to remain competitive um or maybe become more competitive versus other towns um I think that if we adopt a standardized process like a clear pring formula which I believe is addressed um we can ensure fairness and simplicity in managing these benefits I don't think these changes are just about adjusting individual benefits I think they're about they're necessary to uh maintain a strong supported Workforce that can serve our community effectively um most of these articles we just talked about I believe have a Min minimal Financial impact um but I think in the long term it'll positively impact our community um if we are able to maintain our staff and retain and and uh Recruit new emplo employes I think now is the time to move forward Um this can always be readjust it's not a permanent it's still a living document you know if we make these adjustments there's no saying that we can't make another adjustment next year or if a new person off board um we have a fulfilled a fulfilled personel committee excuse me for stumbling um we asked the employees for their input in listening sessions and I think that at least bringing these forward to town meeting for the town people to be able to vote on them is important I do think that it should stay on the warrant um regardless of you know even if we defer our opinion I think having it on the warrant shows our commitment to our staff um I do know that it's really important to the people that are still here to show that you know we're continuing to move forward and I I appreciate everything you know that that selectman Alonzo brought forward with with waiting and I understand that but I think at least bringing it forward to town meeting shows our commitment and allows the town people to vote on it that's all I have any other discussion yeah so so my comments are are you know I think you know having the listening sessions hearing the feedback and acknowledging the feedback trying to address it that's that's what we should be doing that's great my concern is this is a lot this is dense this is a lot to do in a very short period of time and I'm thinking are there parts of this that we can pull out to do I I don't think expectation for someone to think that government can move that quickly you know my experience is it it doesn't move quickly at all um I have questions like with the recruitment incentives and advancing the 5 days of leave time what happens if the person leaves before they've acre you know worked long enough to basically acrew that 5 days of leave we've had that happen you know so there's there's details in here that I'm just I'm just not clear about um and I don't know if it's been thought through enough the the sick Leaf bank I think that's a great idea I I don't personally like the way it's written and I and I've shared this with the interim Town manager you know it's it's an article to say that we have a goal to do this but then it gives some details but I think selectman Alonzo said it's it's details about a policy that doesn't exist so I'm not even sure this has to be in in sap right now to say that we're going to establish a sick Leaf Bank can can we just do that and have that actually as a goal to bring to special to Springtown meeting that's an example um so I'm just where my head is at is are there parts of this that we can pull out the the merit awards it's you know I hear that that was people wanted that employee recognition at the listening sessions and I keep just keep coming back to uh is it Chris leitis kristos Chris yeah kristos um who said you know we don't want coffee and donuts that's not what if if you think that's enough that's you're not hearing us and and the the Merit kind of to me feels a little bit like the coffee and donuts I mean I'm happy to do it but I I just you know that's acknowledging that that's not enough um the section 7030 and employment contracts I um still confused by that language I was the one who said you know I was doing this on a Sunday and I I just started having mental fatigue and I thought maybe that's why it was confusing but it's still confusing to me um so I think I I want to to do right by our employees but I I think we I want to do it carefully and I think there there are things in here we can do now but I think there are things that we should bring in in the spring may I make some suggestions that might move us towards that M I wanted to make sorry to we'll get there go ahead no you go first um I think that the article 10 as presented I support it I support including it I want to recommend approval of it uh you know I think that I've been I've been in this seat for 5 years years and I have been overwhelmingly frustrated um most of the time and you know I and part of it is that I have said several times that I don't think we're a great employer uh I I just don't believe it and and I think that the ability to to even in this seat bring about change um has been overwhelmingly slow um and inadequate and so I think that you know to see um the changes that are being presented first of all I mean you know to have after encouraging uh our previous Town manager to have listening sessions for 5 years uh it is encouraging that it actually got conducted at long last it's encouraging that staff attended these it's encouraging that there were there were tangible results that came out of these discussions that were vetted by the people most impacted by the policy to me that is that is the the the beacon of how we should be making a lot of these policy so I don't want Perfection to be the enemy of progress I think that there's opportunities um certainly for improvement um the absence of a Personnel committee I mean you know it's it's kind of like telling someone hey we don't have an HR department so sorry you can't sign up for benefits right now um you know sorry you can't get your vacation time approved you know to tell to if we're not okay with our employees ceasing their operations until we have a full functioning Personnel committee um then we then we shouldn't be okay with not doing necessary Personnel related actions while we have the staff that are here every day doing the work and you know in the absence we have a process that that I think some of my colleagues have highlighted that should be followed but there's no way right now to follow it we don't have a Personnel committee so so there is no way for the for people on a committee tasked with looking into Personnel policies to actually do it and so we are depending upon the expertise of the HR Director and and assistant Town manager um who has a lot of experience we're depending upon the expertise of our department heads each one of them has more than 20 years of experience in their Department we are depending upon the expertise of the Town manager interim Town manager who I understand to have almost four Decades of experience in this area I I don't I I think that what we have in front of us tonight is a document and I said it last week and I'll say it today that's common sense and when we dig into what we're we're asking people for we're saying hey if you are sick and you can donate some sick time to your fellow colleagues I don't think that that's controversial I think that when we talk about you know part-time employees and people who are scheduled to work on Mondays that they should be able to get that day off as a paid holiday if it's they normally scheduled day that's not controversial special Merit pay Awards most people these days get bonuses recruiting incentives these things to me are are are pretty straightforward um the ability to start someone at a higher step with approval from a personal committee I don't I don't I also don't see that as being controversial so I I think that what we're being asked to decide tonight I think that most members of the public generally don't pay attention to many media certainly they have the ability to participate but a lot of people do come to town meeting and the booklet goes to everyone's home and there will be a fair opportunity at the town meeting for to understand what's being asked based on what M the interim Town manager said this has been vetted through 79 staff um that that's most of our employees and then the language in here on the end about the um jury duty let me just what jury duty that's not not controversial um it's something we must do but the employment contracts and we run into this already um where you know I've questioned with a previous Town manager how are we you know ratifying a reappointment of someone whose contract we haven't even seen and and to have the position that the select board only approves contracts in the first instance and that every subsequent contract does not need to come before the select board to me this clarifies that and says it does and so I I support including it in the article so I work in Tech which has a lot of downsides but one thing that Tech is really good at is benefits so one thing that's really common is unlimited PTO so you started a company and immediately you are obviously within reason allowed to take off however much time you feel is appropriate and companies do that because they Trust and respect their employees and they treat them like adults so when I see something in here under recruitment incentives depositing up to 5 days of leave time for employees to start with I mean that's like the first step in creating benefits that truly respect and value our employees not controversial to me at all and Michael Ray you brought this up I'm glad you did because I'm going to bring it up as well we hear from this board a lot Trust TR the professionals we do that all the time when things are brought before us by staff and in this case we have an interim toown manager with Decades of experience we have an HR professional who worked on this and we have around 80 staff members who are actually impacted by these policies their lives their family and their paychecks are actually impacted and they're supporting it so for me it it's truly a no-brainer I mean I'm happy that we're doing this I think it's a step in the right direction I'm happy to see the town actually listen to employees offer warrant articles at town meeting that address the needs of our employees and I'm happy to see that we're slowly becoming a better employer so I fully support it all right so we just had a member walk away real quickly to take a phone call uh so we should probably wait until they come back but uh Carter you said you wanted to address something um well uh first I don't hear anything being said that that it it's all more about pace and Clarity than it is the Merit of the suggestions um I would like to walk through some potential changes we could make here tonight that perhaps could bring us a little closer together um uh so and 70-12 on a what happens if there isn't a town manager or a a Personnel comp we could add a sentence there that makes it um very clear that if there isn't a Personnel committee the town manager can only go to step four period end of story can't use uh the work around um I'm not exactly sure exactly how I would word that but I think uh we could do that in a way that would be agreeable uh with respect to the recruitment incen um I don't have a problem in Striking that but let me tell you what your real problem is you can't use a day of sick leave until you've been here six months that is not realistic for our employees coming in and it is not in keeping with the practice of the vast majority of employers it's inhuman Carter I mean it's inhumane to tell someone they got to work for 180 days without a day off is inhumane so we could strike this and frankly go at the heart of the issue which is you start acre your sick leave as soon as you come in you don't have to have this six-month delay that would address frankly the real heart of the issue uh and address uh the concerns that m mki is uh expressed about do we get out front of somebody they take those 5 days they're only here two or three months and and do they sort of walk away with a couple paid days off so my suggestion here this evening is that we strike 70-12 D1 and the staff proceed to bring you for the spring revised language that addresses the real heart of the problem as I see it um I wouldn't want to strike it we can add something that says that you're only so the the issue the concern here right and I think sure it's a valid concern if someone leaves 2 weeks after they start their job now we have to pay them out 5 days of time that's the concern right I mean yeah is this leave or is this sick leave you know is there is there any is any kind of leave any pay leave it was it was any kind of leaves they're not going to be allowed to take um you know vacation uh but perhaps it's a personal day perhaps it's a sick day it was meant to have some flexibility to it something came up assuming that they would still have to get that if they come in and on day two they say oh I want to take next week off I you know want to go Florida or whatever that w't be approved no no they they wouldn't be able to do that um I I do want to say though that the real heart of the matter is the way you currently have people the crew time and not able to use it for 6 months it's that simply doesn't work in today's market that does make sense to me and and needing to have some level of uh you know recruitment incentive is becoming more and more I mean there are towns that are actually paying signing bonuses uh for folks so um this is what I think we could lose as long as when I say lose uh this is one we could knock out to narrow it up make it a little bit cleaner as long as we recognize this is an issue you need to address I'm not okay striking this section I would only be okay striking it if we proposed the change in 70 dust 20 to fix that other issue now I think that this is something that is consistently brought up and one of the main reasons why people don't accept jobs I mean if you if you have kids if you're sick if there's any I mean as um so like when Jeffrey said to not be able to take a single day off within 1880 days just isn't isn't reasonable so in my opinion can we not have have people acrew as you go I mean that's that's day one I start cre and with supervisor approval I can go up to a week negative if something comes up and then I you know I rebalance that as I ACW well I think that's what it correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what this says that that you deposit up to 5 days of leave time which shall be charged against earn leave time over the coming year with which to begin their employment so I mean initial deposit so that just gives them the ability to use the time but it's it's charged against what they truthfully we thought this was an easy easier route to go than trying to revise the whole way in which you acred leave time we thought that was a much larger discussion leave yeah leave time AC cruel I think is a bigger issue that is the root of the right and it really needs to be completely we read the we read the room at least you know those that would deal with it is that being a much larger issue changing how all that was done I think it's something you need to to look at uh but this was thought to be an easier workaround um uh the sickle Bank frankly that could be struck uh as long as the board in my view committed to uh to doing it and bringing it forth in in the spring um we could also narrow it down uh substantially um initially the draft ended um after the word emergencies yeah all the rest of it was added to try to clarify things if that has just think made things more confusing so say that again such a program Etc after that so it says uh in the fourth line the original draft ended at the word during medical emergencies okay um we added the others because we kept getting questions well how's it going to work how's it going to work I frankly we did those first three lines because we didn't have time to write a four-page policy document well even and we didn't think that that needed to be part of the sap quite frankly right I I I mean I think it would be okay to strike that because we would still have to go through all that anyway and formulate it so that you're saying strike this section no no no no no so end it at the word emergencies so yep so everything beyond that yes yes okay it's simply this article is simply assigning a task a goal it it's not establishing anything it's just saying this will be done I mean it just seems like a weird well set a for the employees perspective it sets a firm date but doesn't that allow us to implement it before the next town meeting if we I think it has to go it's a change to sap would have to go to town meeting right no the way it's written is it says no later than June 30th as long as the policy is vetted wouldn't doesn't that mean that this board what this does is give this board the ability to establish the policy to create a sick Le bank and how it would be used it would not have to go back to the town meeting and includeed in the sap at length shouldn't it go back to town meeting I mean I don't how I don't know how everyone feels shouldn't we give the town a chance to uh there's 's no Financial impact on this uh it's already a time that has been ACR I mean it depends on how the policy is the it's an employee donating it it may have already may have impact absolutely it doesn't exist yet so I'm not going to say anything about it yet because people are at different Sal at different hourly rates and if they equally put it in if somebody who's sick is at a higher rate than somebody who's given them time and you have to hire somebody in the interim to fill in for that person who may be sick then there is a financial impact it can get complicated cuz you have part-time full-time people how we part time A and B and yeah how much time do you put in to become a member is that relative to how much time you know it get it gets complicated quickly yeah but what's not complicated right now is the favoritism of one department does it if the department likes that employee and another department doesn't do it if they don't like that employee this is a huge issue in our town this yeah I mean I know places where it's totally voluntary it just people they literally put up a note on the bulletin board anybody want to donate and they can only donate sick time not vacation time this is so there are places that have it there are situations that have actually happened in the last couple years where it is literally like department heads get to choose and you can do this and you can't and there's no basis for how it's done there's 's no commonality throughout the different departments and it's like you know you got one person that has cancer why is it any different than this other person that has cancer so one person yeah I'm just trying to this is something that is huge and and how we word it I'm not sure but this article is not creating it it's just committing to create it it's adding language to the sap which authorizes us to create the policy yeah I I think we it should go back to town to be reviewed I think I when we do have a final policy I me I I I think we already have my comment is we already have the authority to establish a policy for sick Lea Banks so I I want to be clear that that is very much so an executive function uh it is very in my view it's very much so covered by our existing charge but I sometimes we have things that are in the charter that we just don't do like performance evaluations I mean it is in the charter um and it's been there for what almost 20 years and and we have yet to actually force a town manager to provide performance reviews for staff that I I think it is helpful and healthy that when we are not taking the actions we ought to take for there to be a something that compels us to do so and and and and we we see it as well in the article that's coming from that we all voted to approve which is related from the apdc when it comes to the Brooks house they are compelling us to do something that's already in our Authority to do they're comping us they're the language does not compel us they're suggesting after after the rewrite well but it still says request right I didn't go with show well the original did not request but I didn't it's asking town meeting to ask us to do our job and so if we want to you know compel ask it's still saying from town meeting the legislative body select board do this uh and again that article is something that's already in our Authority so to me this is this is in the same vein I think it's healthy to get the public engaged in this and uh and again we talk about why someone needs sick leave donated to them it's because they have a serious illness I mean we're talking about someone who has cancer I mean we're talking about someone who has a serious physical injury that prevents them from coming into work for an extended period of time I mean the this is when people are at the lows of their life and and what being asked to do here is to support the people who support us when they're in the lowest moment of their physical health I haven't heard anyone on this board oppose thatone suppor what to the opposition isn't saying we can do this in six months so the person who gets cancer on November the 18th sorry too bad for you the person who who gets in a car accident and and has a stroke too bad for you if it happens in January so it is saying no it it choosing to not put this before the voters as soon as humanly possible is actively saying we simply don't care we'll care tomorrow we're caring 6 months but today we don't that's unacceptable Mr chairman may I ask a question for you may ask a question those on any side of the issue would folks agree that striking the last one two three four five lines starting with such a program will be volun would make sense it does step one okay yes yes yes all right so we've had a lot of discussion on this article thought you were going to say something so essentially we could create this policy regardless of whether this was here or not yeah yeah we can but I do I do like the idea of having something in the sap that exp I too I'm just clarifying yeah we can my own we should I mean so essentially this gives the commitment yes I agree that this is something that we need to look into further like I wouldn't want to try to make an adjustment without fully vetting this policy yeah um but I do still support it being in here because I know again this is something that across our employees has been brought up and across our unions and across our non-union employees so I think with that adjust with that adjustment I would support putting this in there and it kind of holds us accountable um to to to doing it all right so where are we at part of our charge Mr chair is again I I'll reiterate we just had my colleagues say that I'd like it to be vetted more but I'd like to be included the whole point of vetting anything of this nature especially of this size and the changes it envisions is a cycle of presentation explanation review public input re recapitulation changes modification representation right that like we're doing that all in 45 minutes which is again my objection is on that matter nobody not enough people have seen this people who are watching this tonight you're scrolling up and down there's nothing they can download to follow list they're not going to get this until two weeks from now and we're going to be asking to vote on this something that has Financial Inc compacts that the wording is important and the ramifications or unexpected consequences are important and you won't know them until people get their eyes on and say wait what about this what about this to improve it that is my objection and I have to say and it it pains me to say it but from a board who had a policy introduced and passed against their own policy in one evening this conversation tonight doesn't surprise me it just doesn't surpris there's no there's no acknowledgement of why the process exists to begin with and and then honoring or respecting the process it's not I don't want it just to delay it I want it because I want it to be right I don't disagree as one of my colleagues already said that you know people are against this I'm not against this I'm not against anything in particular what I'm saying is that I don't know how all these pieces fit together and this has to be fit together very clearly like the gears of a machine otherwise this could wrankle everything and if something's wrong that is wildly out of favor try to pull benefits back cuz that won't go over well either so again I I just think that the way this is supposed to go isn't going that way Mr chair yep I just wanted to comment back on that one um I know that you know that that policy that you referenced was I think this is a completely different situation in my opinion and and maybe it's because I've spent so much time and so many hours looking at the sap that maybe I have a different opinion um but I think that at least bringing this forward you know we're we're not approving this tonight we're bringing it forward to town meeting and I I understand the concern about the you know people not having that much time to review it but people that are involved can take the time between now and town meeting to review it I'm assuming we could get it maybe we can ask Mr um the instram town manager to put it on the website once it's finalized I'm assuming once the proof um you know is I think part of this is it you know it is important for people to be involved and take the time to review it and then if they don't agree with it then they can vote on it at town meeting so you know I don't think this is the same situation as as that prior policy vote that obviously you know was contentious and and we've gone over at nauseum um I still think that this is important and I do respect the challenges with bringing it forward but we're not approving it we're just bringing it forward to town meeting for the people to vote on yep no I hear you a few moments you'll be recommending it in terms of vetting there are different levels of vetting that things in here require right the sick leave Bank yeah that does require vetting in order for us to write a policy but there's no policy in here it's just stating authorizing even though it seems like we already have the authority to create that policy so that's still to be done and we will do that I think we've in terms of that that makes that part Superfluous like why are you putting in something that doesn't do anything except telling somebody you have to do something later because we're modifying the salary Administration plan to include a section on the slea bank I you know in in terms of process I I just disagree with you that we're not following the process that we should be following this is it happening as it should in my opinion we've had this entire month to read this warrant you know I think that's more than enough time for us to read through it and you know I I think there are a lot of things that have been considered and I think the language in here is very thorough again people with Decades of experience wrote this in their professions you know I I just I I don't know I have other things to say one other thing I'll say and you know with with all due respect truly with all due respect residents who received the warrant in the mail in my understanding and my observations put the time and the effort to read through it and formulate opinions more so than maybe some of us do yes I'm a professional and I thank you for the respect all of you show for the profession but I'll will also point out that it was Engineers that designed the catwalks in the Oklahoma hotel that fell down so we're perfect um I would like to suggest uh that I modify my request here and in at 70-12 a to uh make that an absolute stop block that the Town Administrator can't blow through uh that we delete 70-12 D1 at this point in time but that we commit uh to address addressing the acrel language issue for submission at the annual town meeting I'm sorry I didn't follow that were you talking about the sickle Bank 70 70-12 D1 the recruitment incentives I would like to suggest that we delete it uh in its entirety but that we commit to addressing the a cruel issue which is the real heart of the matter well and if if might um and that we make the change that we talked about on the sickly Bank I'd like to address why it's in here well it's it's in here for two might be three by the time I'm done reasons the first is to make it clear the authority under which the select board is acting in adopting the policy so it's not open to question where did you get the authority to do that the idea is to make it clear where the authority comes from the other issue was frankly um to give the employees a level of confidence it was going to happen I had a union leader come in to say and I think I shared this with you in an email wow you actually did what you said you were going to do not quite sure why he found that so surprising but uh this was put in there primarily for that reason to try to to give the employees a level of confidence that we were committed to it that it had a hard date and we were going to get it done um and so that I I would leave the balance of the article for discussion with you with that explanation I'd like to reject that request uh you know I think on the floor I'm just having a really hard time seeing someone on the floor of town meeting standing up and defending why we should not provide employees any time off for 180 days I I I I don't think we are a community that that is that callous so I don't think that that argument is going anywhere uh I don't I don't think that the overwhelming that most people sitting in the seats when they think about their children their grandchildren who they help get through college and get a job that they don't have an expectation that that whatever job they get that they're going to have to work six months without the ability to take a day off I mean so so if someone wants to stand up on the floor of town meeting and make that argument I encourage them to do so um but I think that we should include it in the request all right so I want to thank the board for this robust discussion truly it was very productive but it seems like we've all made our minds at this point is there a motion to accept or recommend approval uh I move to accept article 10 as as modified would that include the cap on the U administrator's ability past step four yes the the specifically the section about the step four and then that was also the deletion that we had discussed and and I'll call out that specific section uh and I think it was um 70-20 D1 it was deleting everything after medical emergencies is there a second second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I I those oppose no no the motion passes 4 to1 did I get that right all right that was Article 10 uh that was the inclusion I believe you've been taking separate votes on the recommendation if I understood what you've been doing so far my apologies I was just about to ask if we did both motions all right is there a motion to recommend approval I move to rean approval of article 10 second any additional discussion those in favor yes I think it's I think it is important that by town meeting uh to the town manager that we we have the um complete estimate of financial impact we'll have that for Thursday evening with the finance committee any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppose no no I'm going to abstain pending the financial impact statement any AB exensions yes the motion passes 311 all right moving on to article 11 can I we're marking uh abstentions as recused is that agreeable no um no it's abion 3-1-1 yeah yeah [Applause] yep all right article 11 Carter I'm sorry I don't recall if you covered I'm prepared to withdraw uh article 11 um no no cuz we still have the um sick leave and vacation leave for the part- timr um and I'm prepared to withdraw that one why do you want to withdraw it yeah CU I want to try to be as harmonious and agreeable as possible and I want to have as nominal debate over our employees on the town meeting floor as I can possibly have and I believe that our employees will see uh good progress being made from this board by the submission of the first article um and that is why I am suggesting it that said I recognize it is the board's role I propose the board disposes is one saying I've heard from a manager front it is capped at two weeks I personally in still in support of this article for the reasons I said um in my statement I guess I was talking about both of these articles before um the separation um I think especially um letter under where am I 7018 letter public G I think that one is really important um I think you know if you're going to try to get employees that are already in the the municipal sector that have experience good luck having someone who has five weeks someplace else and they're capped at two I still think three is is too low um but I think that this at least gets us a little bit closer um to where we should be so especially for that reason I support including this to be voted on at town meeting I don't know expect that there's going to be a lot of people from the public who are saying many things um many a lot of opposition to either one of these but I also support inclusion can you just quickly hit the highlights of what's in 11 because there's a lot of of changes that I think aren't sub substantial you know just so uh in simplest terms it provides your part-time a employees which you currently call intermittent but they're regularly scheduled they work up to 20 hours a week uh it provides them with vacation and it provides them with sick Leaf we have proposed capping it at uh two weeks now which I think is very reasonable for part-time employees the uh larger issue uh is uh in um paragraph uh G uh which of the vacation section which allows us it says all persons that's in the uh the yellow um all persons employed by the town um except those in a classification of intermittent or seasonal um shall receive paid vacations in accord with the schedule uh provided however that the town manager May award a new employee a higher acral of vacation leave in recognition of the employees qualifications and experience or market conditions provided further that such a initial acral shall not exceed 3 weeks so um and then it speaks to how that service date if you will um does not qualify them for uh longevity and future uh increases in the acral rate so we get people you've hired and if they're under contract you've negotiated vacation with them you have an employee who's been here less than a year who you contracted with 3 weeks of vacation you have an employee who has considerably more experience you can't contract with them they got two weeks of vacation um and so in that case the person was unemployed but had they been employed and been at their five weeks of vacation with her other employer and then told no no no you're going to start all over again at the bottom and it's going to take you 15 or 16 years I forget exactly how your grid there's a a point at which it's day by day by day um I I think that there's a number of potential employees who are going to look at you and say no I'm I'm not going back to the bottom of the pile to start all over again and I shared with you the good fortune that I had and actually keeping an employee because the other Town um wouldn't do it now there are some communities that are starting and and it's it's not an avalanche but they're actually allowing an employee who has 15 years 20 years 25 to bring that full service forward this at least at least lets us do a little bit more for the prospective employee but caps the initial placement at 3 weeks um and so that's why we've done this as a recruitment tool okay and the other one regarding the part-time a employee the the second vacation leave that doesn't address the acral issue does it it does not at this point in time that is something you need to really take a look at between now and the town meeting um in my view you simply let people start acre time when they get here mhm yeah you let them start acing but you don't credit it to them for 6 months or until July 1 depending upon whether it's sick leave or vacation that that is you really need to address that for both your perspective and your current employees that are of recent hire all right so where are we at on this one your for motion or discussion I want to include it um I I think it's pretty straightforward in terms of what the request is I think it's well synchronized you know I think the town interim Town manager request to withdraw it is out of concern for uh how much public debate there may be but you know I think that the Democratic process even when contentious is always healthy uh just as conversations tonight are healthy you know we have to get all the different views out into the public and and everyone you know is going to hold different viewpoints and that's normal uh and at the end of the day we take votes and we go with the majority and so I mean I think that getting the information from the public is good I think it's a compelling argument for why we should do this and you know if the public decides they don't want to do it you know for the part-time employees that's that's up to them uh I don't I don't think that that uh will is there I think that most people want to have people working for the town who are highly qualified and feel valued uh in their employment and I think that this uh better aligns us with with with showing our part-time employees as well that we value the work that they do I mean you know we have as a specific example um you know we've had a lot of talk about the cemetery for a long time and they depend upon part part time laborers I mean they depend upon that to to get everything taken care of over the course of the year and we've seen the impact when they don't have people in those roles so I mean there there are we also have a a Rec director in town who's a part-time employee um and this person's coordinating a whole lot of activities that that every parent that's using them values and appreciates and I think it's just you know it's normal to say we value you too and we value You by showing that hey even though you're part-time you're scheduled to work on a holiday you'll get that off and you know if you need some time off that appropriately you know you can actually accumulate some of that time off then these people who are part-time night to they're not getting you know health care right they're not getting any other form of benefit from the town um and to be able to afford them a day off when they need it because part-time employees just like full-time employees have life events that they need to attain to um and what it does is it forces people who are in these roles to have to decide between something critical that they need to accomplish and their job and we shouldn't be putting people in that situation so I support the request yeah I mean my impression from annual town meeting when we were discussing the updates to the sickle policy was that town meeting was very supportive of our employees so you know that's at least my impression going into this and if they decide to not be as supportive this time that's their prerogative you know I think to meating still should have the opportunity to vote on it so I certainly support including it I'm also supportive of the article as well if I know other members need to talk I just want to call that's actually a really good example because that in that case it was an employee who had an issue they came to the town manager and they were denied and then they reached out to elected officials and and we supported the employee with their reasonable request and the town overwhelmingly supported it and and I think that that just speaks to this change that we need to be undergoing this this forward direction that we're in to show our employees that we value them and it starts at the top it starts with Town manager it starts with this board you know I think this is a continuation of those good effort is there any um do you see any potential Financial impact to this article uh it's lost of productivity and we'll clean up that chart that we gave you so you can better understand that and you're going to go into the finance committee hearing with all that this Thursday too so they'll have a robust look at all of it so I'm going to attend that physically I I don't think that zoom's a good medium for me to have that discussion with the finance committee right so they have their due process as well all right I I will say that in general their initial review was very supportive of these that may change come Thursday night but they have for the most part been supportive of these all right is there any other discussion are there motions I move to accept article 11 as presented second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I I those oppos no no the motion passes 4 to one I move to recommend approval of article 11 second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppos no uh I no the motion passes 3 to2 Renee was a no on that I said an i you said an i my apologies all right the motion passes 4 to one all right moving on to article 12 which I have numbered as 11 and whatever we didn't know what might happen up above so um I see when we split them up these will be renumbered and they're all are going to move down uh once we distribute the Legacy article one I have forgot about that yes all right so this one just needs a vote to accept I move to accept what is we'll call it article 11b I move to accept 11b second any additional discussion those in favor say I I I those oppos no the motion passes unanimously all right article 12 debt authorization for Marshall Park improvements this is one submitted by The Parks Commission I think the Parks Commission uh has put a lot of work into this um can I ask a question are they going to have a presentation at town meeting so yes they certainly will have one at town meeting I've been watching their meetings I had a conversation with the chair as well and I don't know if this is going to be included honestly this might get passed over uh because a lot of this is still being worked on um so not sure exactly where it stands that'll be a dis a decision for the Parks Commission um I don't want to make that decision for them quite frankly uh so yeah so in that case would we accept the article but defer an opinion we could or we could vote on it tonight it's up to the board I can't vote on a recommendation without more information I I watched the last parks and I know they were a lot of questions and we're hoping to get more information and answers and I don't know if that's happened was going to wait for the hearing on Thursday but we would still have to accept it as an article in order for it to move forward at all correct yes mhm accept and defer that's what I Wasing s Jeff I don't know I'm going to I'm going to defer to the majority on this one yeah um I I I said previously I want to support this request yep I don't know yet what the financial impact is fully I think I'm expecting to know that on Thursday um I think in you know one toone conversation that I've had um with a member of the community there seem to be some suggestion that this article may or may not be actually discussed at town meeting I don't but I don't know and so you know if it's going to and the the board hasn't taken the barks commission has not voted to remove this uh I know that you know previously I've always been been consistent and holding the view that you know we can choose not to include things in this warrant I don't know if it's prudent to bring this before the town yet but I also don't want to step on the toes of of the work of the park commissioner so I'm going to have to defer to the majority on this yeah I'm kind of in the same situation so s Alonzo it's an elected commission I never would vote to take away something from an elected commission mhm so it sounds like the majority that wants to accept and defer okay I'll vote with the majority all right is there a motion I'll make a double motion I move to accept article 12 and defer recommendation to the floor of town meeting second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppose no the motion passes unanimously all right and then Article 13 we cannot uh well I guess we're forced to vote to accept it or do we just not vote I believe no vote no vote already it's accepted all right so is there a motion to defer uh or I actually I'm not going to make a motion to defer I'm going to make a motion against um I move to um dis for the board I move for the board to recommend disapproval of Article 13 is there a second no second I'll explain that uh I don't think that it's appropriate for a Citizens petition to come forward on $5.2 million I I don't think that that process is acceptable um you know I think you know we're at we're talking about substantial amount of money I think that what the parks Commissioners are doing is going through the process uh I think we it's a it's an article that seems to catch up from another article um but I made a motion in a second and and it wasn't there so I'll sit back and wait for another motion all right is a motion to defer since it's the same thing as the one above it I would say that we defer I don't see I don't see any oh is that sub difference yeah it was a formal motion second yeah any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppos no the motion passes unanimously and Mr chair uh Carter I'll mention another article yep okay yeah we're about to get there okay is that your copy it is do we have oh my phone all right so I'm passing them down typically what we do is we include an article at the beginning of special town meeting and I'll just read it to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate borrow or transfer from available funds all sums of money necessary to amend the amounts voted for the town's FY 2024 budget under article 7 of the May well I guess that part is we'll revise it to be the appropriate article and dates of course or take any other action relative there to so basically we have this standing article in special town meeting to amend the existing budget um so I guess we need to discuss whether or not that's necessary I also if possible if I can get some information from the board members why typically we've done this so my understanding um and Mr Lonzo I want I'm asking if you to chime in here if I get any of this wrong so my understanding is that you know we need to um the way that the levy works in the baring and and how much we can um Levy against the taxpayer is it's 2 and 12% Max Plus new growth and I think we've always wanted to make the effort to preserve that we have affirmatively allocated um that 2 and a half% and the new growth and that we there's often a a slight difference between the New Growth we estimate it's a conservative estimate versus the New Growth that we actually received and it gives the town the ability to appropriate those additional funds I don't know if it's actually necessary um based on my understanding of how the levy actually works whether we appropriate those funds or not it's kind of irrelevant to whether or not we actually have the ability the following year to use that new growth number as the Baseline with the 2 and a half% as the Baseline but I think we've we've been habited to do it um just to make sure we've crossed our tees and Dot our eyes on this one uh and uh you know I I I I don't have a conflict with continuing that pattern I don't either but my understanding is kind of like what you just said right that new growth number doesn't change so going into the next budget you know that's still there right right so I guess my question is what exactly are we amending what what changes to the current budget do we make the new growth that would get con you know get get confirmed if it does get completed and affirmed Y is for FY 25 yep which means that when we pass the budget in May this would add new money that was not avail able to be appropriated if it is not appropriated you cannot raise the taxes to that so there would be a deficit in what you would get be able to appropriate this year so in this case first of all let's look at last year last year we didn't Levy to the Limit because our new growth wasn't uh certified until after the first of the year after the T you know the tax rate itself wasn't even done till q1 so they was $230,000 that we didn't use last year and you can't get that back it's just not there so this would be the same my understanding is that we're expecting that our if everything is certified as presented we will see approximately and get approximate number $150,000 that if we don't appropriate at this special town meeting we will not have and so we will be leaving $150,000 on the table for no reason other than we didn't have this an article to put the money somewhere now if it doesn't get certified by town meeting then you have to pass over because there's nothing to do but if it does come in then you need to put it somewhere and appropriate it somewhere and some fund and some line item so that when you set the tax rate that is the complete Levy carer what's your uh take on this um there's SE first it's 115,000 I just 15 sorry yeah no no I just want to make sure we're on Common Ground um certainly appropriating an additional 115,000 to your FY 25 budget is one way to address it um I'm not sure what department would get it what it would be for I think that's something the board would need to decide um there's another way to deal with it and I'll try to make that presentation uh to you at November 4 so you can make a decision as to the best way to go forward and that's in using the uh tax rate setting recap sheet um but this is a legacy article and I wasn't aware of it I'd like to include it yeah I mean every Department I mean you know the funds are going to roll in anyway right I mean that's the thing it's not like we're not collecting the money we are it's just can we do anything we're not collecting the money that's the point uh well I I hope to make a presentation that I thought we were collecting we just can't appropriate it nope am I incorrect on that one you can appropriate it but my understanding is I'm saying the absence of this when we just talked about leaving spended you can raise it right through the mechanism of the tax recap sheet cuz that growth number doesn't change but you can't spend it unless you increase the budget until you get to FY 26 that's another that's a different you're not recouping that you you you obviously the new growth rolls over into the next year sure but that's not the same as this year no you're right I understand that I was just I just wanted to First clarify that distinction um but I guess I also now I'm curious like what are we going to appropriate it for for this put in stabilization fund you can put it in a reserve fund you can put the salary Reserve fund yeah yeah you can put into anything right I'm not opposed to it at all really so or we can evenly distribute it across departments by percentage I'm sure the school committee won't complain about getting 50% of 115,000 well that would be a hell of an article to read you have to mention every line item I don't think you want to do that no well I I think step one is to include it to include it yes I I what are we call on this then what's the what's I mean well where do we want to put it first we want to put it first so that's where it's historically yeah do we have to have in the article where it's going cuz this was from from 2023 and I think at special town meeting last year we definitely didn't have the certified New Growth we pass it over but do we have to have that it's going I thought I saw in a previous 2022 maybe that it did we call out a stabilization fund or something this is exactly how it was worded November 23 was such a weird year 22 was the same1 I pulled okay um I pulled three once I was alerted that this was a legacy article so when do we say I think this would usually be like one of those pink sheets that shows what we're what that day it would be a handout to show people what we're doing with that article so even if it's not in the wording of the article you could have that separately where that money's going yeah well that's in your motion you can you can so the article gives you broad Authority in fact it's even suggesting you might borrow money which you well I would I wouldve that yeah I know this is like one of the vaguest articles I think by format we we've tended to keep the budget related stuff at the very beginning of of the uh article and usually the things that bring out the the voters at the end um but would for the purpose of making a motion what are we going to call this cuz we already have an article one so what are we going to call this for this I would just say article one from the special town meeting warrant of 2023 to insert it as the new article one in the current warrant or something like that and rber the yeah just re every all right well my my remaining question is word smithing do we need to discuss the wording of it tonight if we're changing any of it is this going to the printer tomorrow that was the hope that's what I thought this is exactly how you've worded it yeah I know we just have to change the dates in the FY we just have to change the dates um I I hope to make a presentation to you on November 4 that will clarify another means of accomplishing what you're suggesting MH um okay but but I don't see the name need to change it at this point right all right so I would accept a motion to basically what I said taking this article from this warrant putting it in as the new article one and the current warrant and then I don't know authorizing the town manager to update the article in date for the relevant town meeting so moved second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those opposed no the motion passes unanimously did we vote to accept it that was we just added it so I'm assuming that accepted because we voted to add it true sorry we're we're again close to 10:00 now and no no recommendation so is that just a defer should I make a motion to defer that would be a defer uh I move for the board to defer the article we just accept second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppos no the motion passed unanimously may I speak to schedule you may speak to schedule uh so the intent is to get this all cleaned up first thing in the morning that's our priority do one final proof reading uh run it past Town Council give them an opportunity to have four minutes to burn through it if four minutes four hours to burn actually if they Alle rates I hope it is only four minutes um and then to have it to the printer at the end of the day tomorrow we will get it out to you for a final look see so you understand exactly uh and then as soon as we get that uh the next day to let you know that the signature page is ready for wedding signatures uh here in the office um and you'd have the full book uh the table of contents the letter from the chair on volunteers the zoning maps of some Finance terms things like that when do you anticipate needing or signature did you say Thursday Thursday I'm not going to be um Friday not home Friday Saturday Sunday Monday yeah we'll make it work I mean we we will we'll figure it out if if we need to we'll get them hand delivered to you over the week I mean we'll we'll we'll work it out all right cool any questions or comments about the timeline process moving forward all right sounds good thank you everyone for the robust participation tonight all right moving on discussion on annual climate survey policy and what's the next one discussion on select Bo and town manager goal setting process I don't have anything for that tonight we'll pick that up in November and moving on to minutes warrants and action items so I only reviewed one set of warrants I only see I mean I mean um excuse me minutes and there's only one set of minutes in the drive it's from the executive session from October 8th so I reviewed them have other members had an opportunity to read through it yes I did review but where did we land on voting on these if we're not there did we I know we talked about this last week right there's nothing precluding you officially from voting on them yeah I guess it's up to you it's really up to you it's up to you sometimes it's needed for for yeah I mean it's not needed I won't vote since I wasn't there but I did review we approve the executive session minutes of October 8th 2024 four second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppos no any abstentions abstain abstain motion passes 302 all right warrants do we have any warrants does it look like we do no we do not all right action items not hearing any so we'll move on to committee reports uh budget task force met last night we we had um let's see what do we discuss a lot about the healthc care plan and um options um discuss the points that our chair Tony scullen brini Jr and um eie will be presenting at special town meeting and uh our next meeting is uh November 4th um and school committee has met since our last meeting um they discussed where the additional Chapter 70 funds were going we already covered that tonight um and they also received seven responses um to the Turkey Hill Ada study so that is moving along and that is all I have oh storm water meets tomorrow think uh Thursday sorry Thursday I have a question for selectman imy um so I know that at one of the previous meetings with the budget task force and I made a comment about it and but I didn't end up making a public comment there was a question about um you know the tax classification MH so what I just wanted to offer is something for you guys to look at um is you know when we when I did this analysis a year or so ago um every Community between airon Gardner North of Route 2 is a single tax rate including Fitchburg and lemonster um and I think that you know working in the regional kind of collaborative group that one of I think the points is that the benefit of of investing in north central Massachusetts is that you know you're going to have similar taxes no matter what community you you're in and that keeps us all competitive and so you know what we see in the communities that have divided tax rates in which you know and normally when it's divided the tax rate on the businesses doubles it's usually double the residential rate that usually what you see in the communities that have that are where there are uh intersections and a lot of Junctions so like air as an example like has train tracks you have a lot of roads that meet um same deal in Garder and so those are places where um businesses want to be because it it allows them to you know you're an air you can be in LEL in in 10 15 minutes you can be in Worcester in and in you know 25 minutes you can be in Boston in a quicker time and so I would just offer that as we look if the committee is looking at um you know making a recomend recommendation one way or the other to take a look at the region um even go south of Route 2 look at Lancaster some of the other communities uh and I think what you'll see is a commonality there amongst communities in North Central Mass to try to make it uh equal opportunity for businesses and my concern is that if we become the outlier if we become the one town that doesn't have all those intersections all those train tracks and all those roads but we have a double tax rate that we will lose businesses as a result so I've been watching the meeting it's my understanding that you guys haven't taken an actual position on it no we discussed it because it came up when um we looked at Maynard which is has a lot of similarities it's like a if you took lunenberg and just squeezed it to smaller footprint um they actually have a split tax rate and they have had it for going back to 2003 as far as I can see in DLS so actually um I think Linda and is Brian coming on the fourth as he invited some um folks from the um essor Department to to give a presentation um at our next meeting so okay yeah I have opinions on that too but I'll save it for another time the intent is you know everything is on the table Yeah assume nothing evaluate everything and that's that is one so right s Alonzo Capital planning met yesterday where we got a presentation from the schools over their 10-year Capital plan we meet tomorrow uh where we will I can't remember who we're hearing from because all my meetings are melding into one but we are meeting tomorrow with the Ritter for another presentation um the economic de development committee was supposed to meet Thursday but I don't see an agenda so I'm not sure what's happening there when that's going to be rescheduled to um and the master plan steering committee still has no meeting there is no chair after the chair stepped down so I'm not sure what needs to happen in order to reorganize so that that committee can start meeting again because it is a large committee um in order to meet so I don't know um how we move that forward master plan steering committee there was a Hiatus over the summer and then they were supposed to meet in October um but there is no chair so the committee needs to be re reorganized reorganized um so I'm not sure how we get that moving um but currently there is no movement on Chris had reached out the consultant trying to get him in here and I'll uh connect with Chris tomorrow and let you know okay I don't see any reason why uh the staff couldn't call that meeting uh and then to help in whatever way I you know you'll reorganize and be back on your way okay so we'll get you an answer by the end of the day tomorrow thank you Mr chair I forgot that fincom has their their public hearing for the warrant on Thursday this Thursday here yep um Library trustees met last Thursday uh a couple highlights coming out of that um just first they they wanted to extend a lot of kudos to mure and the staff um that they have noted a uh pretty good increase in usership uh uh with the library and the programming that they're offering and so you know year-over-year it seems as if participation in the library is up and their Friday openings have been successful so they just wanted to share that uh as Carter mentioned the RFP that's out uh it's due on the 4th and they are excited related to the teen room and they're excited to move forward on that um I did speak with the chair of the Sewer Commission uh about the lack of meetings since the summer and when they plan on having their next meeting uh she indicated that um that they are looking to meet uh for sure in the month of November I did encourage a meeting this month if at all possible um and I think based on membership availability and other factors um that that it does not appear as if uh the two remaining members of the committee are going to be able to meet this month is that the Sewer Commission to say cemeter thank you I meant to say cemeter we have the I commission fully staff Cemetary yeah I me to say Cemetary thank you so the Cemetary commission I had a conversation as well with um Town Clerk and the chair and they're scheduled for November 21st correct um however there hasn't been an agenda shared which is why it's not on the town website uh but it is scheduled for that correct the other uh report that I had is Municipal um building design committee that we met last night um and we in the RFP process there's using an opportunity for for questions to be asked um by people who have received the plans also known as the plan holders um and so we've had a lot of good responses to the RFP um the questions were pretty straightforward and I thought pretty simple but we did review them last night and and came up with answers so I'll meet up with Julie tomorrow we'll go over that response so that way it can be published on on Thursday one of the requests that came out out of it um was there was some interest in an optional site visit U Mr Ruth expressed interest in in hosting that so we are going to I need to coordinate with him on the date but we did Target next Monday or Tuesday for that and to provide that as an option um so we'll get that agendum out and needs go out on Thursday and so working with Julie want to make sure that that gets out um also the municipal buing design committee you know we recognize that we need to uh resocialize uh a lot of the work that we've been doing since we were literally picking up where we left off uh and so uh over the coming months we are looking to meet with the uh planning board uh we're looking to meet with the select board the school committee um Council of Aging um and the and we are on the agenda for the finance committee uh this Thursday to provide an update related to our update article and uh all only other thing is um planning board so we have a request and it's a soft request a soft inquiry at this point uh from a developer that's looking to do some development residential development here in town focused on assisting in the town and hitting its minimum 10% uh um um um affordable housing limit which we're you know a little less than 20 units away from uh I believe and so uh I do have a soft meeting uh that I'm targeting to schedule um Mr Briner has already consented to it we're looking to reach out uh with the land use director and and just kind of that initial conversation and then I think the product would then get passed off whatever it's going to be to the uh planning board so just wanted to give the board updates on those areas all right I don't have a committee report none of my committees have met in the past week upcoming meetings we are meeting November 5th and then November 12th the special town meeting again 700 p.m. of the Middle High School auditorium and public comment are there any public comments from the interim Town manager none Mr chairman are there any public comments from the public Mr Bowen I might have to hold on one second I think I have to ask to unmute all right we can hear you okay hi how are you all so I just wanted to um um follow up I I noticed that there was a lot of discussion on the warrant articles and so forth with regard to employees and as you know um I had raised that issue earlier and I wanted to give some clarification uh to the community regarding the litigation between chairwoman F yasco and Todd Holman uh is going to be at her expense and not at the town as for a settlement or a trial on that particular Tor of defamation uh it'll be dependent obviously upon depositions that could lead to town involvement uh and additional persons being added uh or the town itself uh by person's personal statements that they make in depositions have those depositions come about uh if people St pointing fingers I just wanted to make that clear that the town lawyer is no one's lawyer I have an email from him with regard to what his specific function is within the town and he has informed me uh that he works with a town manager and select board mostly related in town matters inadvertently elected and appointed persons they do not have his services at their disposal so I hope people will take note of that when they run for office or they run for appointments um so that they're clear in understanding that um you you're still a person who is personally responsible for what you say and what you do also um to follow up I will be meeting with the finance committee this week uh as with a public comment because I reviewed the cemetery commission's books um thank you uh Ezekiel for the information because I will be speaking with the finance committee directly on a couple of issues particularly on the spending of the funds from the sale of lots account as well as I mean there's spending that goes on in the trust funds that belong to specific families however that has nothing to do with what I plan on speaking about but I did find recently $7,500 of wasted spending uh I found a $3,500 wasted spending on a grass cutting survey uh even though the commission was informed by the superintendent and the DPW director of hours to cut the grass my understanding was they hired a landscape company to come in on their own uh without clearing it with the DPW and they booked that company without first that consultation with DPW to allow them to work in our cemeteries that uh that activity uh was actually an attack against our Cemetery superintendent and DPW director uh prior to that uh the secretary superintendent was called a liar and Bill Bernard was also told and this is all on recorded meetings uh know how to uh he was he was told he didn't know how to manage the DPW by the chairwoman now this was approximately there was also another spending expenditure of $1,400 spent on engraving a former board member's bench on his private family plot paid for with money that we allot on a Town warrant article of $10,000 okay that's patronage giv there was also another roughly $1,800 or so spent on news advertising and display boards for a wall presentation for the North Cemetery which there is no particular plan for anything because this committee has no plan financially is spending money that we give them willy-nilly and they say that that's our money that's our money just listen to their meetings okay they do not have a formulated business plan or direction or balance sheet at least outlining a minimum of a 5-year plan and cost uh you know a a cost calculation on the care and upkeep and upgrade of our Cemetery this has to stop as I says I am just touching the surface of the plethora of negligent acts done by this board over the last two years now I have recommended a cemetery Corporation I have been dismissed by Miss yasco and Mr Doran as a result of looking into something like that but this is the best and fiscally most responsible direction for the care of the dead and their families okay in our cemeteries okay it's time for a new Direction a new line of fiscal responsibility a new line of proper attitude not like screaming at citizens at town meeting like she did with me or calling the police on residents like she did with Highland farm for a dog in the cemetery or me for expressing my concerns as I have been for over the last year with this board and other boards and their boards I say we fire Nancy Osco and Dave Doran and that's what this town has to do and let's just make our cemeteries great again thank you thank you Mr Bowen are there any other public comments from the public Sue I think you still have to unmute can you hear me now we can hear you okay good Sue D the director at the lunenberg Council on Aging um I just want to say that um I really want to thank the interim Town manager the assistant Town manager and the board of Selectmen for bringing forward um the issue of the part-time employees for vacation time holiday pay sick time sick Bank Etc um I wish this was done 30 years ago when I first started working for the town um I think it's really a good thing because um it's obvious that it's frowned upon to not hire people for under 30 hours a week because of benefits and whatnot and that that has interfered with me hiring people um because they can't get benefits or they can't at least get vacation time or a little bit of sick time so I really want to thank them and I hope that people come out and support this does it need a little tweaking it might but I think it's a great start and I just wanted to say that thank you thank you sue all right any public comments from the board hearing none is there a motion to adjourn so move second any additional discussion those in favor say I I those oppos no motion passes unanimously it is 10:13 p.m. and the select board is adjourned thank you everyone at home for tuning in tonight and we will see you in November recording stopped