All right. Are we ready? >> Yes. >> All right. I'm going to call the tri board meeting of Monday, January 12th, 2026 to order in accordance with requirements of the open meeting law. Please be advised that this meeting is being >> recording in progress.
>> Good timing and broadcast live on the Lunberg act and on Facebook Live on the Lunberg public access page. It will be uploaded to the YouTube um after the meeting. Um if you want to join the Zoom, you can go to lunbermma ma.gov and
there's links in either the school committee, finance committee, for select board, tri board meeting agenda. And with that to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Um, I guess just before we get started, um, remind folks that the next tribe board meeting is the 20 >> the Monday.
>> It is Monday. No, >> no, the Tuesday. >> What opposite of whatever the town manager says. >> All right. So, it's January 27th. I have it wrong in my um
agenda, but it is on January 27th. >> Where's that going? I drove the whole town hall at the library. I don't know. I should call somebody. [laughter] I don't know.
>> Hold if if if we're not throwing somebody out of the meeting room. That That's the easier setup location. >> So, yeah. So, we should be good. We should vote. Yeah. So, we'll be in town hall. Town. All right. And you'll throw some
>> I will. Okay. Cool. Okay. Um, so with that, I'm getting echo. >> No, it's probably >> um, >> I think it's
>> all right. I have all seven. >> Okay, good. So, uh the first order of business then is the preliminary budget presentation under the following categories. General government, unclassified, debt service, intergovernmental. Got it. Okay. Thank you everybody. Um my
plan for tonight is to go relatively quickly through um the remaining budgets. General government is basically all function all town functions that you haven't heard of the typical town hall functions debt service intergovernmental
and unclassified. Um I have a couple of folks here who have larger budgets. I'm going to just quickly present on anything. Please stop hands as we go. um because I know that it's the next part of the discussion that folks really want to get into. Um I put this together
pretty quickly so uh there might be some errors. If you see some formula errors, let me know, but I've double checked everything. The other thing that I want to say before I start is the salaries currently are all at FY26 rates. Um some
people have union contracts that haven't been negotiated and they haven't figured out a cola. So everybody's rights are at the FY26 and if um if something had been removed from a line for ex like had moved to another department for the purposes of
today if it's not in the FY27 budget I don't have all the backup on it. So the first up is the uh town manager and select war budgets. the select board. Um $180,000 budget
largely driven by staff. 160,000 of it is staff. That staff covers the assistant town manager, director of human resources and procurement, the executive assistant, and minute clerks together with some expenses. Um not so much the same case as a town manager's
budget where it's almost 50/50 salaries and expenses, $35,000. Um so sizable budget that includes the legal budget which is the large expense driver there. Basic setup of the office um select
board oversees the town manager and has uh oversight as well dual oversight of the executive assistant with the town manager. And then um I'm going to talk about in this budget the creation of a new assistant town manager position um
and stripping off that title of the director of human resources and procurement. Obviously this is a budgetary uh difficult year um but everybody else who went on the FA presented their budget needs and this is a need that I
think um is is of the town of Lunberg. So um there are a lot of changes in the FY27 budgets um between lines. The town managers budget and select board budget I don't think had really been
holistically reviewed for expenditures at a time. So we did a lot of realignment and moving things where they need to be. A lot of these lines would run over and then we're borrowing from Peter to PayPal. And the other major driver here is that it creates a
assistant town manager position that is distinct and separate from a director of human resources and procurement. Um the new the plan is to rather than pull this all on as a uh initial budgetary expense to be absorbed in one year would not to be to start the position until January
1. So to fund it for half year and get it on. Um pretty common in communities that haven't had an assistant town manager. The first stop is that they pick up the piece of human resources. That's the largest piece. Um, Lunberg has had a director of human resources,
an assistant town manager for some time, and I think based on needs that I'm seeing, we're ready to have that as a standalone title. >> So, budgetary increase for the select board, $20,000 increase, not huge. It's mostly
expense driven um to align with actuals. Um town manager has a substantial increase of 77,000. 60 of that is the new assistant town manager. I also increased the legal line. Um we pay a
flat rate for our legal. Um but we we know that there's going to we are a busy town. I would imagine that we're going to get an increase um from our general labor our general counsel and then labor council is separate in aside. So I did put um an increase there. I
haven't gotten any quotes yet from our attorneys though on whether our rates are going up [clears throat] every year. So um and it's it's funny because they're it it's not like a the way that they approach their budgeting is for them and their
clients. It's not necessarily the size of your community. It has a lot to do with volume. Although we've been a good volume town for them for a long time, you know, >> a flappy is unheard of. >> It's so good.
>> And I have worked with a fair amount of municipal attorneys. You cannot get me to complain at all about our council. So I I feel very secure. The other unique thing about Adam is what typically drives a lot of municipal work in
communities is land use. It's big development projects that get appealed. That is what his backgrounds in. So he is a land use attorney by trade. So it's a nice it's a nice marriage. I'm going to move on quickly unless anybody has questions about select board town
manager. >> Have a year. Yeah, it's Yeah, it's about 120 I'm estimating it as $120,000 position for an assistant. >> No, full-time position. What I'm prop
the halfime is funding at January one. >> Correct. Correct. Get it? >> 40 and then some. 40 exempt 60 >> describing the expenses of the
additional 20,000 for the select board. >> So select board let me uh zoom in here. So contracted services >> Oh yeah. >> All right. Batteries. There's batteries right there.
Yeah. >> Oh, does the orange mean batteries at all? >> Yeah. Well, if it's on solid green light on its battery contracted services was a new line for
the select board last year, $6,000. Um if there's an increase in that line to 135 um just there's a variety of contracted services that the select board may need at any time. Um and they consistently use a contracted service
line, but the 6,000 was initially put in um to achieve the goal of staff appreciation and staff morale and team building and all of that. That 6,000 is pretty much by one employee appreciation event. give a
little bit of additional room um air um as well. I'm sorry, I'm in the wrong line. Hold on. That's Sorry. Contracted services um is just to give room for unforeseen uh things that you need to bring in a
contractor for. We have no room and you're always doing it at a special town meeting. So, it's not a huge increase. It's a couple thousand dollars. The other the other increase is the assistant town manager is the 60,000.
Okay. So town manager. Okay. Accountant. This is a budget that was at 323,000 for FY26 and was heavily supplemented um at the uh special town meeting with 160,000. I may need another supplement
from the finan reserve for finance committee members. Um don't be surprised if I come to you but that shortfall is about the departmental transition use of outside consultants increase hiring range for the position and under budget.
Um I do not foresee that carrying in to FY27 and I'm not going to budget around that. So that's really one time in nature issue. Jen, um I know you're using like a head hunter or someone for that position. Does that include like the fee for that?
>> No, because that's within FY26. >> Okay. So FY20 I'm excluding anything about the transition from FY 27. That fee potentially may get picked up. Okay. So the structure here is a little
bit different than some of the other departments. It's largely driven by charter. Um the town manager appoints a finance director who oversees the accountant, the assessor, the treasur, collector and government.
The accountant is put inside the sober does not have the separate finance director and accountant but that just shows how the duality of that role.
So the this part so the financial starter is responsible for the coordination administration and position of all the programs and activities. This in all matters of both implements and maintain uniform system
controls procedures of all activities including school departments and maintenance of all financial and intelligent data records. Maintaining uniform budget guidelines and procedures. consistent development and coverage of projects and spending plans
and review all contracting funds and expected I'm only going to talk about the accountant division of assets the division of accounting headed by accountant for this last responsible
all financial back the audit of buildings and reimbursement Preparation of tables, preparation of warrant of the town, preparedness and it's pretty substantial in the finance with the total issue of 198
um able to keep that slow because they have the dust in. All right, I think we're going to play with mics, but I I can't I'm not going to be changing batteries, unfortunately. So,
um so the there we had some uh staff retire um allowed us to revisit the payroll and benefits position and they retired at top rate. Um and so the the reductions in the clerical line are
somewhat offsetting the increases and thank you in the finance director position. Um the payroll benefit position will be filled subject to appointment by the select board tomorrow evening if amended. So that is a real number. Um and the assistant town
accountant position has been filled. So that's a real number. Town accountant not filled. That may come down. We're not sure, but that's the outside of the salary. The another big cost here is the um audit costs. So, the audit had been
underbudgeted at $40,000. The actual that we're expecting is $65,000. So, that's a pretty large jump. Um and not many other changes other than that
in that department. Uh, hold on one sec. Yep. I don't have that level of detail. I'm I I really don't want to share munus on this screen. Um, would could you just see it when I was looking at it? I I'm going to have to look for details.
Yeah. So, I don't have I don't have that detail right now before me without going into to the department. I'm building these budgets with no finance director. >> J about the audit cost. >> Yes. >> Is the audit cost because we previously
under budgeted or was there actual increase? >> That's the actual cost. So $65,000 is the actual cost of the audit in FY27. Um, and to folks that say they want a
different auditor, there is essentially now we're down to two municipal auditors in the state of Massachusetts, it's CBiz who we have who has absorbed everybody and there's Roselli and Clark and they are not taking on new clients and we
have already reached out to them. I we'll circle back at the end for following up with details. So I know we need details on the um town accountant contracted services and Jay you had asked about select board contracted
services. Okay I was very conservative. I just don't have the recall. Um, [laughter] okay. Treasurer collector. Not a lot of changes here other than tax
title is coming into the operating budget. It lived outside. It's just moving it from one column to the other. It has no change, but it'll live inside the operating budget. That's level funded at 30,000. Um, there is some there is a slight salary
request here, but it's finance director oversees the treasurer collector. You can have a separate treasurer and a separate collector. We have a treasurer and a collector who are one in the same person with an assistant treasurer, an assistant collector underneath them. The
request here driving salary is to those 36 hours increase them to 40. The treasurer collector had both of those folks up to 40 with ARPA funds. the office was benefited from that and so there was a request to return to that so
the treasurer collector can get to more of the tax title work um and other departmental responsibilities. So the treasur collector collects all the monies due to the town uh the receipt of all the monies the borrowing of money and has custody of the tax
title properties. So, this increase is being driven by um those hours. So, $15,000 increase in the treasurer's budget and $10,000 increase in the collector's budget um for those
hours. I do think that there is some room here to make some adjustments in both the treasurer and the collector's expenses. minor. We're talking about surgical, not big savings.
Um, and that's about that on that one. All right. It we have a pretty big jump in it. So, I have Carara here. If there's questions, it has to do with muness. So, in FY26, the IT budget was half a
million dollars, 500,000. structure is the town manager oversees the communications and IT manager who supervises the outside contract. Sus that preliminary IT budget increases by $90,000.
So um what is driving that? It's mostly Munas, but there was in FY 26 um a change to the staff position uh regrading and recclassing the position or really a new position that we posted
and hired for. Um so the the staff support manages the external vendor but is also all of our communications for the town. So updating and maintaining the website all rather than individual departments doing it. all handled through one spot.
>> Um, and doing social graphics, flyers, things of that nature. So, it's a communications NIT position. Um, that does not include the COLA. When we go through um the budgets, hardware is the
general replacement of equipment. That's flat. Telephone, we got it up to the actuals. um it had been historically underbudgeted and we needed to transfer in. Um so there's an increase there, but
you see the actuals warrant it. >> Purchase when you say munice for the >> I'm getting to I just know that was software cost. >> Yeah. >> Purchase the service software cost >> like if you teed me up so that's okay.
[laughter] So there is a $55,000 increase to purchase of service almost 100 almost 100% is driven by Munice. >> So the town upgraded Munice uh last
year, December of last year that had a $18,000 price tag. It was offset by ARPA. So from operations was 61,000. There's no ARPA for it in year two. In year two, there's a contractual increase
and they're not these contracts are not running on the fiscal year. They're running pretty close to the calendar. So, they're going to be a bridge, but um there's a 5% increase in year two, which we are in as of today or as of a few days ago, really, January. And um and
then the year three price is market. They just said market. So, like a lobster. Yes. So, um that is a pretty substantial
increase to online. Um you see that I've flagged clear gov here as uh funds that we've had a we've had conversations maybe more so with finance committee than school committee but um clear gov
was a software program that was purchased I think initially through community compact best practices grant assist with budgeting assist with forecasting and um also as a transparency measure for the community. The reality is is it has not been used
since he left. Um there I the former uh the interim town manager had suggested that it was cut. I had planned to cut it in the FY26 budget and heard pretty strongly that some folks wanted it to stay [laughter]
very much. Um but again through the transition now here we are again and it hasn't been used. Um, I am waiting until we hire the finance director to s ask them what their feelings are, but if they're not interested, I'm probably going to
terminate it this current fiscal year. >> I have a question. Um, you probably said this in the past. What is the difference between hiring position internally to our outsourced position to this outside company? Is there a difference? So our
internal person is not a technical IT person. >> Okay. >> She is managing the request. So they have a ticketing system but she's managing that workflow, managing the projects.
Um all communicating with it in a way that the former town manager was really in the meetings driving the projects. That's been separated off. So it seems like a position on the books for an internal IT specialist
>> in lie of the contract out. So the town had somebody in the role prior to there being a contract. >> There was no contractor. It was all internal, >> right? >> And then there was a hybrid where there was a little bit of external supports
and internal. We have no internal tech folks. So what be the difference in those salaries like those two types of expenses. >> Oh, I see the question. Thank you. Like would it be cheaper to hire somebody internally than to outsource to another company? Okay. >> Yeah. I don't I don't believe so. And um
the other thing is when you hire one person, you're relying on the skills, expertise, and knowledge of one person. That person may be a software person. That person may be a hardware person. When you hire the vendor, you hire this the whole team.
>> Okay. Is Munis priced by cease modules? How is that priced? >> I have not had any >> I was not involved in in bringing this contract in. I really have no awareness around it other than we're in this contract. >> Is it just on some state
list of the pricing? So the pricing we get is the same as the neighboring >> unit. >> Yeah. I would they probably procured through SHI. I'd have to look how they were procured, but if it was through SHI, it would be off the statement list.
>> I don't recall. I know that um the software was pushing to move away from them and prior director had an internal staff team. They wanted to stay with Munice um and then the brought forward to us. We did know there was going to be an increase. Uh it was the interim town manager that suggested using our code
but offsetting it because we knew it was going to continue to increase. This wasn't like a this was a mandatory upgrade. we were 20. If any of you watch Chinese from that time frame, I mean it was a disaster. >> Um, but in terms of how it was procured, I I don't recall. It might have been a I
saw I say child, I thought, but what one of the things that's been represented to me is that until our books are as good as they can be, it's not the time for a software change.
So, um, that perhaps we may look at a software change at the expiration of this contract. I would hope that we're cleaned up by then, but if we were to make that change now, it could be more negatively impactful.
>> Um, not my favorite program, not the worst. >> It's kind of the worst. >> I'm a BAK fan. So I guess my question or is there a way to save money if there's if it's seat based or like module based modules we're
not using or we're not using all the seats. >> All right. We'll have a followup with this. >> I mean we need modules. Is anyone paying for employee
self service? We don't use that. >> So we use this for the accounting software. >> So it's bills >> everything. Yeah. Accounting. Um there's there's a MUN has a lot in it. Um we're not paying for everything
that it has, but it is doing all of our bills for sewer billing. Um, it's not doing our property tax bills that's set up to Kelly and Ryan. Um, but it's it's the data source for everything else. All of our people are
in there. All of the payroll is in there. All of the accounting is in there. Um, >> and school department. >> Absolutely. Y >> I actually asked for when he started and he actually has he likes it. I mean I I I don't know that he has much experience
with other Yeah. with other um municipal software because his background is more in nonprofits, but he actually it's been really helpful for the school committee. >> Upgraded one though. >> Yeah, that is true. He's using the upgraded one, but it's very helpful for the school committee because he's been doing regular reports for us, you know.
>> So, from our financial advisor, I've been advised that Munice is like your gas stove in your house. So, you can use Munice. You can use the gas stove to warm up a bowl of soup, but if you're
not careful, you can burn your damn house down. So, it's a very robust program. It's usually used in much larger municipalities. Um, it's a big program. Hearing no real opposition to cutting
clear go, I'm feeling good about that. All right. contracted services with um Souer IT. This is for them. This is the 175,000. This is based on five days a week. As of January, I've already
reduced them to four days a week. We're going to see how that goes for a couple months. I'm definitely going to reduce them to four in the coming no matter what in FY27. I'm wondering if we can reduce to three.
So, as we go from five to four, this is it just started this month. We're going to see how staff reacts and how their if their needs are still being met in a timely fashion. Um, having 5 days a week inhouse IT for a municipality the size
of Flutenberg is kind of unheard of. So is this like your printer doesn't >> on they're so that's the that's the they are 247 offsite. >> Yeah. >> The five days a week is 5 days a week on site full-time have an office in our
building 5 days a week. So I've reduced that as as of January to four if we can reduce it down to three which I hope to eventually I regardless I'd like to reduce town to three some point in FY27. >> It's one person on site. >> It's one person on site. That's crazy because like you know at most businesses
you have a a help desk that you call they have they have a help desk >> which doesn't always work but I mean every vendor >> they have a help desk that is staffed in person by with a real human sitting in an office that you can remote in but because we have somebody here 5 days a
week. Are you going to go to the help desk or are you going to go to the person who's down the hall? >> Does it go through tickets? It does go through tickets, but sometimes they just still walk up the stairs and they're still going to put that ticket in to talk to the person they know rather than to talk to the computer through the
computer. >> It is an You're right. And that's why we're So, we had Right. It It's a culture change, right? We went from having our own person, our staff member here to now it's an external person who's not our our staff member. And now
we're starting to wind that down a little bit. Would there be an option to have somebody completely offsite and have them on calls come in? >> That was a I had interject there. I think that's a big problem with the public. >> I was just going to say they're in there a lot. >> They're in there a lot. I think the things have gotten better with some
equipment upgrades and whatnot over the years. Um but they deal with the volume on cameras with all the equipment, >> recordings, um evidence >> that can be scheduled like that schedule >> or >> uh sometimes it can be pretty immediate if they need a laptop repair in their computer. I I don't think we could ever
go fully offsite. >> So if that makes a nurse visit someone missing a week, what we do? >> So if it's an emergency, they have to respond if it's an emergency. >> If it's a paper jam, we're waiting until
the next day. Right? So perceived emergencies versus actual emergencies. >> Um >> right doesn't work. >> Right. The one thing that with this is no matter what is one day a week will be on Fridays because that's the day that
it's focused on public safety in DPW and there's no interruptions from town hall or anywhere else. >> Jen, what about instead of doing full days we fewer days but full days doing more days but >> I per day
>> they're going to place them somewhere else. So >> that's not an option >> would be an option. I just don't think it's going to I don't even know if it would save money. >> What did the what are the tickets? >> They are the fastest. So, of all of
Souzar, we have the fastest response time with our our staff member has the fastest. >> Um, but his tickets are down. He's honestly he's been able to work on some of the larger projects that have not now that he's not being consumed by
triaging he's able to work on inventorying and coding things and better work on replacement schedules and the things not just triaging. So since we're at that point, I really think we can >> Is that because I was doing system
maintenance and now it's running smoothly? >> That has a lot to do with it. >> We have so there was a large purchase of devices two years ago, three years ago. >> And so a lot of the old old devices that
were problematic have come offline and have been replaced. And what about the networking systems? >> So um the the network is has had a lot of work. Um the latest is to get the
adult activity center on the network which we talked about um with capital planning and finan but they are doing regular network upgrades. >> Why networking like consolidating like instead of everybody having There's a
lot of printer that everybody directs to. >> I'm so glad that you asked. So already in this present fiscal year, unless you are certain departments that need really protected printing,
if once you are out of toner, you are out of your desktop printer because the because the toner costs more than the device and the printing the [clears throat] everything about it is more expensive. So there are not many
folks that need a secure printer and so as they come on as we run out we can do a little sharing for a while but we are really winding down those >> and the maintenance on them. >> Yeah. >> The maintenance on them is high. >> So to just really ideally
most people should be using the copier. >> Are we on service contract? >> Mhm. >> Do they manage the Uh, so they manage the vendor that manages the phone system that the TPS.
>> So the 50,000 for the phones, what does that pay? >> That's actual bills. That's phone bills. That's cell phone bills townwide. That's all of the town bills for TPX and cell phones. So it's TPX and T-Mobile.
T-Mobile, Verizon >> and Tax. >> Yeah, Verizon has our fax faxes. T-Mobile is not our cell phone provider. >> We pay for like phone like phones from like building to building or in house
are we paying to you to use via phone lines? >> They go VIP >> the voice over internet phone. >> So we're paying for the VIP service. Do we own our own phone system? Are we paying to use a phone system?
>> Do we own our own telephones? >> Well, the system that the network comes on to go build the building or >> I think it's just running over our regular network. I don't I don't think that there's a separate unless anybody knows. I don't think that there's >> there's no fiber optic in town
connecting the buildings for any of that service. >> No. from from a in my former community where we had a mun power plant. We did that with a grant. >> I got where you were going.
>> All right. >> All right. So on the out years on IT, this is largely driven by those purchase services as software contracts continue to increase. That's an unknown. Any other questions before we move on to town clerk?
Okay. I knew that munus would get you. All right. Town clerk. So today, not today. This FY27 is an election year. Um you will see the town clerk's budget often fluctuates from year over year. It goes up, it goes down, goes up, it goes
down. And that's that's because of the election. So this is a salarydriven um budget. 133 of the 143,000 for the town clerk is driven by salaries.
Same thing with the elections. Little interesting setup. So the town clerk is elected overseas an assistant town clerk who's up. So there's a dog going to the town manager there. Um, and then election workers and part-time
assistants. So, the town clerk is responsible for keeping the vital statistics of the town, keeping custody of the town seal, administering the oak. Now, we're going to get into the bread and butter things. Issues licenses and permits. So, they're
issuing dog licenses and certain types of permits, but all dog businesses work through the town clerk. They supervise and manage all of the elections and they run town meeting. So, um clerk of town meeting and if there's no
moderator would preside um until a temporary moderator is elected. A lot of their duties are statutory. And so we have a $15,000 increase to cover for the election. That's that's
much of what um is being covered here. There are some really minor couple hundred couple thousand increases to expense lines, but the $15,000 increase is really being driven by the elections. Can I just ask a question about the post
office? [clears throat] Has there been any look at um workflows because we're coming off of it and into it. It is painful to be a chair or a clerk in this town. You are emailing
stuff. People are posting it. There's no workflows. It just seems like a weird way to run an operation. And they're like paper like notes that are wrong on pieces of paper kind of. So
the town clerk can dictate how they're going to accept agendas from from folks. Um I do not have any authority over the town. >> I have influence but no no authority.
There was no line connecting. So for courtesy, sure, but I I'm just going to leave it there. I I just think that that's an area where operations maybe
>> I think I'm going to refer back I guess I will I'm not going to leave it there because I'm not because we're in the tribard and this is what we're doing right. [snorts] I'm going to refer back to statements that I made at my interview. These are public statements.
I do not believe in the year 2025, 2026 now that an elected town clerk serves anymore. I think there was a time that that made a lot of sense. I think that there was a time that you could come up and you could learn all of the statutory duties of that office, which there are
many. It is not the same job that it was back in the 60s. It is not the same job that it was in the '9s. It is an intense job. And if you haven't been if you have if if you're in a community and you have been training to run for town clerk and
you have been working in the office and you have been getting ready to go, by all means. By all means. But I don't see how an elected town clerk could come in and perform all the duties
um having not had experience in the office. Is it it's outlined in the charter? >> That's correct. >> It would be a charter change. >> And how many towns do you I mean I know you don't know off the top of your head. >> So that's that's one of the areas that
you haven't seen as much transition as you have seen. >> Yeah. >> Um there are a lot of towns are leaving that setup. >> Yeah. >> Um you have certain towns who have had a long Now listen when I want to be clear to be clear.
>> Yeah. Kathy Heric. I was very concerned that she was an elected town clerk. I was so nervous. I It has been a blessing to work with Kathy. >> I have no concerns about Cathy's skills, abilities to do the job. >> It is a big job,
>> but it is a huge job and it has changed >> her ability >> to continue to run. So there are there are some communities >> there are some right there are some communities that when they're they they put a bylaw that the charter change will
not take effect unless and until the person sitting in the role seeks to not >> or doesn't run >> doesn't run to seek re-election. There's ways that have been done. Um my town that I live in, the assistant town clerk ran against the town clerk and won. You
can only imagine what that looked like for election season. Yes, I'm not going to become just the town clerk. I mean, just even like the materials from this meeting, right? I had to ask you to put them in a drive and it should just be automatic. Like
the way we we organize and manage material in this town leads to great inefficiency not only on volunteers but on on staff. >> Scheduling rooms is >> scheduling room scheduling zooms.
>> It hugely inefficient. I don't I actually would like to at some point change and just give all of the chairs Zoom log on >> start your room meetings, you know, just get in, do your thing. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> that's not how it is.
>> It's not >> and it's an arrangement that I don't fully understand. >> All right. So only real things affecting this budget. Yeah, there's a union contract for the clerical employee. That's not having a major impact. But we've had
increasing mandates around elections. Unforeseen additional unfunded mandates can always affect this office. Um scrutiny around elections can affect this office doing we do get reimbursed for some of it, but it's after the fact, too. So
just flagging that. All right, here's everything else. Miscellaneous general government lines. Um, a lot of this it's a little early. Um, I decreased the finance committee budget
by $475. >> Yeah, that's not true. [clears throat] [laughter] >> But to that point, it's because no, not not a lot of I think it was increased a couple years back when two members, it looks like, wanted to attend a lot of events. So there's funds here for finance committee members if you want to
go to trainings and go to things and anybody want to nerd out at the Mass Municipal Association next week. It's on Thursday and Friday. Um finance committee reserve it's been 185 uh for last fiscal year. I think it was almost
all used. Um the year before it was a little higher. I think we're okay keeping it at 185 for now. salary reserves far too early. I just it's far too early. I I have no idea what's in it. That 210 is not even a real number. We are currently in active
negotiations with the DPW fire and clerical union and I have no finance director. I'm doing fine. Um so we have those we have
those three active negotiations happening right now. Um, so those would be anything there. Anything that happens there, we put it in the salary reserve, right? Because we we don't know what the final contract will be. The colas
typically go in salary reserve. Um, so everybody gets funded at their FY26 rate and then the COLA gets picked up. Some of to that point, sometimes you see a big jump in people's salary and that's because
the it's picking up that cola that wasn't on that previous year budget. Um, and any any pending contracts, so any employment contracts that are pending just too early right now. APDC 500 bucks. Town report. This is a
big increase. So, $7,000 from the town report to $16,000. It is not $16,000 for the town report. It is $16,000 for the town report plus the mailing for the annual town meeting booklet and the not the mail itself, but the printing of the
booklets for the annual town meeting and special town meeting. This this has been a robbing from Peter to PayPal getting it budgeted. Um, though that's a real number. Did we do something different? >> We did not. There was an article for a
little while. You want >> There was an article on this is like my brain. I like I feel like we talked about this. Does anybody have any final questions for [laughter] >> I know we don't have to read. >> No, no, no. So, there was an article.
There was an article on special town meeting. There was some feedback that some people wanted a few more guard rails. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think the select board is going to be talking about it as early as tomorrow. Okay, great. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> I know it's
change. >> That could change. It doesn't change down to zero because there's still no matter what would be a mailing, >> right? >> It's just but it's not really the mailing. It's the printing that's it's the book printing that's driving that >> cost. code,
>> QR code, postcard, you know, >> um test, >> but I think the more people that know about it, the more likely we can get this to pass. >> I will say for anything, you have to hear something three times before you hear it for the first time.
>> Yes. >> Right. So now, now you're here, right? >> Um all right. [clears throat] Central purchasing. Not a whole heck of a lot of changes here. 1,500 bucks. I do want to flag last year's the first year that we put
all of postage together in one spot. Um, taking everybody's lines and combining them for that 50,000. I looked at it over the weekend and we're running at about 40%. If that trend holds, I'm going to reduce that down. [clears throat]
>> So, but it's in its first year and I'm a little nervous. Are there things you could opt out of postage wise like tax bills? >> Like just not pay. >> No, just opt out of getting it sent in
the mail and >> Oh, as a ref. >> No, there could be a sheet that says I'll take everything. >> Well, the bills is is a big mailing. So, >> good qu that's a good This is why we here. That's a great question.
>> Can people set up automatic billing with their tax? >> Yes, >> more likely. >> I did it today. >> We can Okay. >> Oh, okay. Um All right. That's a good That's a good one. All
right. Physicals. Um this is just aligning to reality. So, it's a $2,500 increase. At the end of quarter 2, we're already at $3,200. So, this is physicals for um new hires coming on, drug and
alcohol testing. Um >> police, fire, >> police, >> police, fire. >> Yep. DPW um >> DPW annuals. No, they take care of that in their operating budget. Okay. >> But for new hires.
>> All right. And then there's a little bit of money health insurance >> because it's not medically necessary. It's something >> that was a that was the great answer though. >> It's we're requiring them to get physicals. >> They wouldn't be getting it if they
weren't retired. It's not something >> and it's not a it's a pre-employment physical. It's very much >> not this is only pre-employment >> and for police fire it's a little heightened scrutiny. They check lungs, lungs, heart, uh, psych. There's there's
more there. Theirs are are more expensive and [clears throat] there is a small amount of funds also uh for health related items in police and fire in their that like six grand. It might be under the fire. It might live under fire. Okay.
There's a small amount of money elsewhere. um couple thousand dollars um and that's where we have been going to >> relief >> it is the injury relief okay which is not it's not really what that's for >> all right debt service I am not [snorts]
anywhere near an expert in municipal debt however you will see that we are going uh down we are paying less and less money each year so we had a big reduction last year which helped the budget a lot. Um, this year it's not as
big. It's 10,000, but it you want your debt to be level. The the budget will absorb that delta. It's just going to happen. It already has and it's going to get redirected
towards operations and then when you get a borrowing, you need to redirect it back. So, >> so can we just quickly talk, we talked about this at school committee the other day a little bit is exempt versus non-exempt borrowing. So is this number both? So we we used it as like a is this
two and a half borrowing and not two and a half borrowing. Is there any that's not two and a half? >> We have I don't think we have anything left for inside debt. Is that what they call it? I just was trying to So like anything >> addent.
Okay. So anything that we would add to this would have to be an override. >> No. So usually the so the cut off is really the price point. So if you have a smaller project and you have capacity,
you're going to use your regular debt capacity that you don't need um you don't need to go out for an exemption. >> But what does that mean? >> Let's be clear on it's not two and a half override. It's an it's an exemption >> exemption >> operates similarly, but it's not it's
not a prop two and a half. That's right. It's profit amount is permanent. >> Yeah. >> Um a debt exclusion on its face is not permanent. >> Yeah. >> Um perfect debt planning is that as soon
as one falls off, you're putting another one in in its place so that the taxpayer has so the taxpayer doesn't have the wild fluctuations. I'm paying, I'm not paying, I'm paying. So >> I understand that. I guess what I'm just trying to really understand is what situations >> for the track.
>> Yeah. I mean for the track or other things. I just I'm just trying to like you're >> what situations are we spending money on debt that didn't go through the exemption process >> and wait and say under a million I would imagine >> right and didn't go through the free
cash like you know um the process we currently >> capital planning. Let me find let me get back to you of the history of >> I don't think there's any left >> with the exempt borrowing we're paying
what we owe out of the budget as opposed to >> no non sorry yes I agree with that but what I guess what I'm saying is what situations is the town allowed to take part of their budget depended on nonexempt.
So, whenever you're going off for borrowing, you're working with um the bank. >> Yeah. >> And they're advising you partially around that. >> Okay. >> I would imagine it wasn't probably just off the cuff. >> It's going to be things under
Yeah, we can get a list. Um do you remember any off the top that were >> Well, because it makes sense to me. People have a fire truck before, which I know fire trucks don't cost a million dollars, but like a fire truck is something we might borrow for. Yeah, you might borrow for a $600,000 >> because that's something we may not have the money to pay for out of the free
cash pool that we do the other projects >> and then the exempted debt um the track is definitely in that is going to be exempt. >> Yeah. >> And there's already turf when does the turf one rolled off?
>> It's right there. >> That's the one. >> I just don't want to share my whole screen. Okay. just I'm really being cautious about I don't want to accidentally share my email. >> No, it's fine. >> We could we could talk this another
time. I just think it's important for me and the rest of the school committee. >> Let me share with you. >> I have a whole schedule. >> I just again >> so it does say 2017 up there. So >> that's when the borrowing but I don't know the term borrowing. >> So I have a whole schedule. I'll share it with everybody that has all the
projects when they fall off the amount and you can look at Okay. That would be very helpful. So the recently recently regulated >> debt that was retired was fisco year 23 DPW building FY25 ladder truck FY25 Civo
property and in FY29 was the artificial turf that was all regular debt that's retiring and I assume the DPW building was like the design phases of it or something >> or was it the roof repair >> maybe I don't know
>> and then excludable debt that's retiring fiscal Year 23, public safety building, primary school, fiscal year 24, elementary school, high school, heating, FY25 was for library, 35 was patron management, and 46 was high school.
>> Okay, >> that would just be helpful to know what was exempt, what was non-exempt, because this was a conversation a few years ago around this the building in the center, the possible new town hall. And I think I would just like to understand better >> if if any group is getting really active
>> about borrowing >> um we want to be looping in the bank. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I just Yeah. Earlier they can they can really help. >> Okay. >> All right. Maybe we should meet with you so we're not doing taking up time during
this time. >> Yeah. That's >> I think this is a pretty important topic on this board to talk about >> the planning >> in detail. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. No, I we do want to >> but I don't think that planning for the future of the debt is going to happen.
>> That's fine. But this board should collaborate on >> right so that we don't have what happened at Mtown meeting where we bring >> competing projects and we end up with zero projects. Okay, we've done the analysis that Marshall Park municipal
building and a new Turkey Hill could have all been done and stayed within our policy. >> Well, the Turkey Hill renovation, not a new one. >> Depend on timing. >> It could have been do that. >> That that window is starting to close.
>> So, we're anticipating putting >> Okay, >> go ahead. We're anticipating putting in a a proposal for MSBA funding next fall. >> Will the window close before >> accelerated repair >> or full? No, the accelerated repair is only every other year. The It doesn't
have to be a new building. It can be a repair. It's just not the accelerated. So, when I talked to MSBA, I just chatted with someone who was there. He basically told me it sounded like Turkey Hill wouldn't qualify for the accelerated repair program because the accelerated repair program is more like you have to replace the boiler or you
might need a new roof, but you might kind of need one thing. Do you know what I mean? And the Turkey Hill probably needs more than one thing. >> The just the accelerated repair program, there's two different types of programs. They run the other program annually.
Um, and Dr. Fortuna advised us that we really want to have a good proposal and she felt like this year was not it was not capable of putting that together but that is on our plan for next year. >> They help you go through the entire p planning process >> and it's about but you're about five
plus years before you >> absolutely we know that. >> Will the window close. >> If you go out and then the other pro what and another project gets in. We're still where we were last year. It's if if it's the municipal building projects, if they linger and they get too close to
the Turkey Hill project, that's so I think >> there was a I think there was a strategic staggering that folks were trying to accomplish last year by getting those in when they got them in so that Turkey Hill would have its time
>> when it was ready. I think the thing is for me and that's why I'm asking so many questions is I just want to fully understand how the debt service payments apply under the current budget because my understanding of a exemption is when
you have an exemption the exemption raises the money to pay the debt service. So, like why does I'm sorry, am I like why does it matter to have debt service payments under the
levy limit? Because isn't when you're going for a debt exclusion, you're actually asking the town to pay that percentage is already over the levy limit. >> You're asking them to pay above and beyond the lement. So when you're figuring that out, so if the project is
$20 million, is >> some of that money going to be in the area under the levy limit? >> That's a question I can't answer. >> Okay. But see, this so this is why I think I need to fully want to understand
because to me, if you're going out to bid for a $20 million building and the reason we need to have an exemption is because we can't pay for the debt under the levy limit, right? Then why does it ma what debt are we paying for? Is it because and those things should
fall off? So if things are falling off, we shouldn't have >> you're paying for a portion of it. Is uh >> is anyone else? >> No, I get it. >> It are you. >> When we get to the revenue, I see where the excluded debt gets added to the
revenue. >> Right. But I I can't say you have a whole group. I c I cannot te I I am not your debt person. >> That's totally true. So I guess I'm saying to the entire group I think part of the argument that was made last year
about the town hall to me, right? If it's if some of it is money that we have already voted on under the levy limit. Is that what you're saying? Right. Because you're saying we're fall it's falling off. So we got to fill that
hole. But my understanding is if it's exempt then you're already dropping that debt because that so you don't you don't want exempt debt to be wildly fluctuating. You don't want because folks when they get their tax bill they get the tax bill.
>> They get they don't care that a portion of it is for property taxes and a portion of it is for a a building. It's their tax bill. It's all in one. You want it to be level. So if you have a period of borrowing that
follow falls off, they're going to have a great relief, their tax bill, they're going to have a big reduction and then all of a sudden you're throwing a project on and you're going to affect their tax bill and it's going to go up. You're trying to get that tax bill to be level. So I think
that's two things we're talking about though, right? When you say things are falling off and we're spending that money on reoccurring costs, those must be things that are exempt and non-exempt because [clears throat] the only reason we would have that levy limit ability is
if they're projects that are under $2 million. Am I am I more or less but I I do not want to erroneously say more or less your Yes. Okay. >> So because I think that's two different things. So when we're presenting and we're saying we need to build a new building because you know we're going to
lose this part of the levy limit that's actually not that's how I was hearing it and that's actually not what's happening because the levy limit is only set to specific projects. >> So so these are all excluded debt. >> Okay. Right. So when these So we are
servicing these at the rate of we are servicing these at $1,553. Correct. We can't spend that money on reoccurring costs once that debt leaves. Hold on.
So we are we're servicing these loans here and they're exempt. >> They're exempt. When we talk about revenue, you're going to see where the benefit of this service gets added to the levy limit.
I'm just going to ask you to put a pin in it. When we get to that that hopefully you can see, but we're servicing these inside the budget. I think to summarize though, simply put, there's three ways of funding large purchases. One is through the capital
plan. One is through short-term borrowing within the levy and the third we typically use for large projects which is an exclusion and you just want to have all those tools available for you based on your fiscal um situation.
So if you're if you were to borrow for something like a ladder truck um you might want to do that over a 5year period or something like that within the levy if you can. >> I'm going to skip to >> Right. So, but what I'm saying is the public speak the new town hall, if we
built a new town hall, it's not filling the non-exempt debt. >> So, I I want to share with you a slide that I hope will help. Um, but it really is taking stuff out of order.
>> Yeah. So, the way I look at it, too, is that you don't want to say buy all your buildings, build all your buildings in the same small little window. We're spreading them out times. So as some of the debt comes off, you want to add new debts. >> But she's talking about the effect of in the budget. But
Mandy, respectfully, I'm going to ask that you wait till we get to the revenue. So when we get to that slide, hopefully you can see how the math comes in. But it it I think it will be illustrative, but I don't want to jump in the middle of a
slide on revenue that's then going to throw off everybody else in this room from understanding revenue. Okay. Anything else on that? >> Can I ask one more question? >> Um, does exempt do we have a limit for
debt that combines exempt and non-exempt? >> There's a policy that drives the whole thing. So, it's >> there's also capacity. You can't borrow, right? >> Okay. That's not that I going to
>> You can't be out borrowing. >> There's a limit that they're going to allow you to borrow. No different than your home. >> Yep. >> Right. >> But we're not there. >> Oh, far from it. >> Do you think we're leveraging the exempt debt the non-exempt debt appropriately?
>> I I don't have necessarily have any know again around I I needed to ask Chris what the three pro three projects were. Right. So, we haven't done one in we haven't used it in a time. >> The non-exempt >> non-exempt in >> we haven't used it in the six years I've been on finance committee
>> and our non-exempt percentage is at about a half a percent of our total um levy. >> What's our policy on it? >> Four. >> So, we could technically be putting new projects out there that have nothing to do with the school like with the town
hall because those things have to be under $2 million. >> So, two is Yeah. Don't don't marry yourself to $2 million. >> Okay. >> It's just But >> we keep going. But the problem we have ourselves in now though is our our
non-exempt borrowing is so low that we're going to have to eat into operational funds available because it's driven almost to zero. So the only way and we levy to the levy limit. You don't have to levy to the levy limit. You can
tax below the levy limit. >> You cut yourself to the levy limit. >> Towns that towns that have not taxed to the levy limit, those residents over these past couple years have had increases well over 2 and a.5% and a
simple vote at town meeting. That's the negative of not taxing to the max they call it that you can just have a simple vote at town meeting to increase. >> The other thing we have is your reserve funds, right? So for like a ladder truck or something, we have a reserve
>> stabilization vehicle stabilization >> which was intended to be used for the first time in FY 25 and likely will be used for the first time in FY27. Okay, I totally skipped over your slides. Did
I even Okay. Um, >> all right. So, I have one more on some biggies. Um, and then why is [clears throat] >> Thank you so much. Two versions. Okay. Intergovernmental.
This is just a way that we were counting things. Okay. We were counting state assessments in intergovernmental. We're just going to take it off the top of revenue. It's not going to show on the expenditure sheet. This is not a reduction. This is not anything. This is just a rearranging of debt shares in a
way that makes sense. We do not need to appropriate state assessments. So, don't this is a huge drop. It's not really a drop. You're not actually seeing it because I said I was going to zero out lines. I zeroed out state assessment.
Okay. Worister County Regional is the biggest and really only driver in intergovernmental at 240,000. So that's a 10% increase for our retirement. That is a
non-discretionary increase. Workers comp, unemployment, and liability insurance keeping flat for now. And I think that we're able to keep them flat. Okay, Brian, I'm gonna stop my some I
must have deleted yours from my slideshow. >> Oh my. >> I'm gonna stop mine. I'm going to let you jump in and then we'll go to revenue and hopefully that will tie it together for you. >> I'll watch it for you. >> Oh, you're right.
battery. All right. >> I feel like >> All right. You want me to just start the beginning or >> I'm
all right. So land use department had a lot of reorganization last year. We consolidated everything into one line. So it used to be different lines. It's just one department land use. Um so it has building planning conservation
and uh ZBA historic. Well EPDC all of those are kind of fall under that >> all under there. structure. Town manager
appoints building commissioner, conservation agent, and director of planning and economic development. Director of planning and economic development answers and um and serves as the pleasure to an extent at of the planning board. Uh same conservation
agent serves the con and building commissioner serves as the EA. Building commissioner oversees one full-time administrative assistant and part-time inspectors. Um, conservation agent has a part-time 10-hour week person and planning
director overseas one admin. Um, a lot of new hires here. Brian, talk about the building departmental activity. >> Okay. Um, so you're going to see numbers up there which I was actually updating during
this meeting because I'm getting feedback from the planning board tonight on projects. >> Um, 35 went down to 24 >> potentially. It was rejected entirely tonight. They have to come back. Um, so you're looking at is essentially FY26
estimated to be average, right? look back a few years uh beyond when this table goes back to all the way back to even FY20 and 21 um and looking at a lot of trends and we are literally going to be sitting at roughly average at 325,000
permit fees 600 permits um electrical 420 plumbing 140 gas 120 um permit fees again it it fluctuates we're looking at planning board had 35 watts before them tonight
that just dropped likely 24 lots. Um so don't really count those fees. Not cutting chickens until they hatch here. Um and we got 30 summer streets floating around that could potentially that's [snorts] um 104,000t building on summer
street commercial building. That'll be bringing in something if we can get there during 26 likely occupancy in 27. [snorts] You're looking again, we're pretty much running average on volume
and planning conservation and DBA. Nothing but average, unfortunately. Nothing out of the ordinary. near level funding across the board. Uh when we get to salary tables, you're going to see some big drops and some mild increases to kind of average it
out. And there we are. Um so you've got director of planning economic development. That's a new position. Formerly land use director that goes from 106 to 112. New position. However, that would have been technically what the previous position was anyway. So
we're not can't really call it a jump. Um myself we're talking SAP increase salaries clerical you see a drop in there what you see is the retirement of a very long serving employee and elimination of the ZBA clerical line
item as well uh technology being what it is we're able to get rid of some of the stuff consolidate streamline using open government in particular so you can bring in office what you were doing outside of the office before in terms of CBA um salary staff
that is our alternate inspector, alternate building commissioner, alternate inspectors, or if one of our plumbing or electrical inspectors has to inspect this building for something. We don't charge permit fees. They don't get paid. So, they get paid out of that line item. Um it can fluctuate anywhere from
we might only use 900 to use the full 5,000 fiscal year. If I'm out for a period of time, you're going to need an alternate. If I'm not out, you really don't need it. Um, longevity dropped off entirely. That was out of lock that longstanding employee, Lisa Norman, then
still helping us out at least. Um, mileage statement is me. You get the use of my truck out of that. Um, other than that, all expenses stayed level. When you look at some of these line items, you've got, for example, meetings in
schools seems like a large number until you realize there's over 20 volunteers and staff sharing a pool for trainings. So, you've got myself, you've got a planning director, you've got a conservation agent, we all do continuing ed, you've got random conservation
commission members, they need to come in. They've got MA M, sorry, wrong name. MACC training that will eat into that during a during fiscal year. Um, new admins right now,
both of them are doing um planning type trainings online. They're 35 bucks per class and I get two of them, one signed up for 10, but they need it. They're not familiar with the stuff. So again, you've got over 20 volunteers and staff just eating up a one line item there. So
despite the fact a third of the budget, it's serving a lot of people. Um everything else is fairly straightforward. Not much you can touch with advertising is statutory. Office supplies again you're splitting across three departments. Uniform is split effectively between building and
conservation. Um D memberships that's so we can get into our trainings. >> And this department more than probably any other department is driven by outside economic factors good positively and negatively. economy is doing well.
He's busy. He's ramping up. He might need additional folks to do inspections if we get a lot of big, let's say, 40b projects coming in simultaneously. If you have a big lot of big industrial conversely, if nobody's building,
then we want to look at perhaps some sensible contractions. >> We end up very complaint based when when people are building suddenly we're doing a lot of zoning enforcement. Correct. But the realignment of this department um into one budget has provided for
incredible flexibility within this fiscal year and and I think is been great. I I actually was talking to the treasurer collector today. I I want to do the same thing there is not have a treasurer budget and a collector budget have a budget for the treasur collector.
just provides flexibility to transfer between those little lines where each department's carrying a,000 bucks for office supplies. How about $3,000 in rather than have to transfer them between departments, which is not always easy and has to only be done at the end
of the year. Okay, everybody's favorite part now or not. [clears throat and snorts] All right. The revenue, this is preliminary.
It's not good. If you if you looked ahead. Okay. So, our total revenues right now for and we're going to dive into in the
following slide how we get to this total revenues for FY27 right now $51,331,000. That is largely reliant on property tax 71%. Followed by state aid and local receipts.
>> Are you assuming local state aid? >> Look at that. >> [laughter] >> largest piece of the revenue pie is our local property taxes. Here's where I hope that that becomes more illustrative on this slide. So, we start by the levy
limit. So the FY26 levy limit is the total amount of the levy across all tax that we can raise.
To that we add 2 and 12%. That is your prop 2 and a2. Prop 2 and a half says that that is automatic. That's what prop two and a half does. To that we add new growth estimated.
We're going to go into where that comes from, but new growth estimated and to that we add the excluded debt. So we add the excluded debt on the top end of the to the available revenues and then take
it out in the expenditures. So it goes in because it's been excluded and it comes out. So you the debt >> so the debt service that you're servicing here the debt service that you're serving
servicing in FY27 is because you're adding that excluded debt to the bottom line. If you didn't have any debt exclusions if you had none it would be the 36 million less 2.199.
So it gives you extra revenue to expend for that purpose, right? But when that debt falls off, that number goes down. The excluded debt goes down and the total maximum allowable levy goes down, >> right? And then there's a small amount
of debt that we're paying for in the 2 and a half and the levy limit and you're saying that amount is also going down. Correct. And we're now spending that on operating >> both of them. But what I'm saying is if we had any projects that fit underneath
that, we could have been spending that money without an exemption. >> Correct? So that is what I'm trying to say is that the argument around the town hall was that we have the room which we have the room with the excluded debt.
That's not operating funds. >> It is excluded debt. >> It's excluded debt. So the when we also say we are using too many of our operating funds not paying on debt that is a separate bucket of money it's that we could technically be if we were
organized as a town and wanted to spend that money on some smaller projects we could have been doing that. So so there's two there's two problems on the debt front. There's one that on the excluded side, we haven't taken on a new project,
>> but it shouldn't be confused with the problem that we haven't taken on new projects under the non-excluded either >> because that debt is falling off. So, what I guess I'm trying to say is falling off. >> When we're talking about this, we should be very clear that the nonexcluded debt,
those are smaller projects that we have not been funding. And that's why there's a problem with spending that on the operating budget. >> That is the spending on operating. is not the excluded debt. That is not a problem spending that on an ex on the operating budget because that goes away. There's no you're only being able So
this is what I was trying to say in that long, >> right? Because that's two different buckets of money. So I just think to see how it gets added to the bottom line, but I'm adding the exclusion to the bottom line. It's not that it comes from an out, it's added to the total. So what
I'm saying is when we're making an argument to the town for whatever we're looking for, whether it be excluded debt or whatever, I think we need to be clear in our language about what that means. When we go around saying there's room for this project, so there is room for
excluded. I think what I heard is people were talking about you in in the spring was there was room for the excluded projects in not really to do with the debt service on the inside borrowing but there was it was planning to time
projects because there was excluded debt falling off >> and the reason yes and what but the reason you would want to do that and you made a good argument earlier is because you don't want people's property tax bills to go up and down. It's not that you're spending that excluded debt money
on operating. I I just think that's where I >> think we need to be clear, right? Because then earlier today, you did say, well, we're spending our operating budget because our debt is falling off, which is another problem that we should be addressing, right? But that there's an entirely different there would be an
entirely different solution to that. The select board could say we don't want to we we want to keep our non-excluded debt, right? and go to the finance committee and say, "Is there things we want to be borrowing for in the non-excluded area?" I don't even know if that's a select thing. Well, I don't
even really know, but someone has to decide that. It could go to town meeting, but it doesn't have to go through the excluded process. >> It still has to go to town meeting, >> right? Exactly. But it could be on the whatever. >> It's part of the omnibus pledge. >> Exactly. >> But the original borrowing is a
standalone, right? Usually. Yeah. But it's not an exclusion. It's not an exclusion. Right. And so for those that might be listening at home, other than other than the servicing it where it's serviced, the excluded debt requires more than just the town meeting vote. It
requires the ball. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> So this is the starting point. This is the max the levy. Okay. So that's our property tax.
Wait, did I put these on? Oh, no. Okay, sorry. So, of that, the new growth. What is new growth? I heard some real misinformation recently on new growth. New growth does include not only new construction, but renovations
and and it does not include regular repairs. But if you're adding additions, if you are adding a deck where there once was not one, if you're adding rooms where there was once not, that is new growth. >> Um, value. >> It's adding, but it's not value that's
added by regular market forces and it's not value add. I had a really rundown bad roof and now I've got a replace roof that is not roof. It's still the roof. >> However, I had a a deck that I've now
enclosed and as a fourseason room, now you've added value >> or you've made it bigger or you've added addition. That's new growth. So, it's new construction from ground up or additions. >> How does it take into account? Because
the new growth doesn't include if your house that was worth 200,000 is now worth 400,000. But if you add on another bedroom that how do they value that? >> It's the value of the new bedroom based
on its current value. It's the fair and equair market value of your additional bedroom. The state has formulas >> our assessors. >> Okay. Is that based on the current assessments of housing prices? So the assessments need to be within 90 and
110% of the of the actual. >> Okay. >> So they it's it's really to get it as close to reality. >> So that part of it does benefit does benefit from fluctuations. >> What benefits from fluctuations? It your
property values Yeah. increasing does not affect new growth. Okay, >> it does not affect the growth but the value of your ren addition is based on the current market value
of the pie you pay is what >> okay >> all right I did not update this for today this is from last year on the right hand side is actuals for new growth on the left hand side is
estimated What happened? >> So those were higher because they they picked up things that were missed in 2022 and 2023. Those are arbitrarily high. Last year we had new growth
estimated at 400. It came actual new growth came in at 518. That's pretty good. You want to be conservative. You don't want to miss you and you don't want to be real. You do not if I don't I would be a
little upset if it was if we had estimated new growth at 500 and it came in at 518. Yeah. >> 2023. Real good. >> Right on. All right. So then the next smallest piece of the pie.
Oh, wait. Why didn't these go out of What happened here? Hold on. Where's my state? Hold on. Where's my state aid slide? Oh no. Hold on. >> It's in the separate file. >> It's in what? >> You know how you sent us the individual?
It's in there. >> Yeah. Let me just let me just change uh slideshows. Hold on. >> It is like on stated I have a whole slide there. Okay. I don't know where that slide went. So,
>> mail that one to us. Feel like that's a really >> So, it's level. >> It's It's not interesting actually. >> Because So, the Let me go back to state. State aid. State aid right now
at 11,244,422. That is our actual state aid from this current fiscal year. That's FY26 actuals. So that's chapter 70. That's the charter sheet number. >> That's the charter sheet. Okay. So that includes
education, unrestricted government aid. It includes um the funding that goes directly to the library. It includes um school choice. It includes veterans. All of that. >> Um
I'm going to leave this as is probably until we see the Housewatch. What are your >> I don't feel great >> really. I mean I'm concerned about the state is not feeling the revenues are strong and they're going to get into a
protective positioning. drown in here though. >> I get it. But I don't think that they're going to I >> I mean, they just spent $250 million on healthcare, which I was not I mean, I get why, but they spent it on the filling the tax credit issues that the feds didn't. They have been spending more money on Medicaid, which is not
great for the towns, >> but it does seem like there's been a lot of >> they're not unaware of the problem. >> It doesn't seem like they're unaware. >> No. To that point, actually when we get to the next part of the discussion, one of my suggestions to this group is to
consider as next week or next meetings >> when you're into the meat of it to invite them here for these conversations so that they can understand the legislators can understand what where how big these gaps actually are.
>> I think it it's been talked about incessantly. I assume that the state legislature is aware. We never >> there are towns drowning. >> One of our reps told us three years ago, you need to just raise taxes.
We have no will to do anything. Just raise taxes >> and then just drive out the people that can't afford it because we don't just >> That's what he said to us. conflict. I mean that's >> now now on this this slide where it says that 22% for state aid is that
comparable to the um perfect storm report where it has the nationwide um states typically >> I don't recall what the nationwide was >> 31% nationwide is what the uh states get from that municipalities get from states
>> okay so then it would be under that >> I mean that that speaks directly to that the problem is bankrupting the towns, cities and towns. >> Well, and in a community like Luniver and that big green piece of the pie
>> that's largely being supported by residential, >> right? >> So, >> it's homeowners. We don't have a we don't have a bad commercial industrial base. It's not as bad as some town. Some towns that have really shut their doors are really suffering.
>> Yeah. But we're relying on the resident more than >> the business. >> It would be nice if we could invite our legislators to the next meeting to I don't know witness this. That's kind of what I bear witness to this. That's
where I was at. How do we do that? >> When we looked at this in the budget course, we found that there wasn't enough of a business tax base that support a split revenue split tax. >> You are correct. >> Okay. I'm just going to ask because you you weren't here and I wanted to know what you're saying. >> I actually just read that one of our
abundant communities who has even less business than us just voted last week I think to split their rate and I can't imagine why anybody would go and now do business there. >> Lancaster >> split their rate. >> We're not the only one in this
situation. >> No. And and for a split rate, you want to be thinking about splitting the rate. If people are coming to your community with their business, and they don't care what your taxes are. They're coming
there because you have the workforce, you have the infrastructure, you have the proximity. I'm thinking inside 95 belt, right? Some certain areas, some >> air has done a good job because they are right on 495. They're on 495 and two
>> and they have their the training station, >> right? So they have just 495 and two. It's they're just better positioned. >> We're we do not want to chill in my opinion any commercial industrial at
this point. We want to arms wide open >> come. >> So the last piece of the pie I've also kept level for right now is local receipts. Um, this is because we are not closed on FY25. I I I did make some
adjustments last year. I went less conservative in some areas and made some adjustments. I don't want to touch this until we see where we are. >> So, local receipts are motor vehicle, meals, excise taxes, fees, fines,
licensing, permits. You heard Brian talking about his permits. Um, all of those fees. This is what they were last year. This is what they are right now. So, [clears throat] um we did really great on uh investment
income. Um you see a projected at 85,000 for FY25 and 100,000 where actuals were coming back at 414. I do not want to rely on the market to continue in that way. We do think it's it's going to be good again for a couple more years, but
um we want to be conservative on local receipts. We did push them. I do want to address I actually was hoping that uh another member of FINCON was here, but there was u some conversation at finance committee about ambulance receipts. They're included right here in local
receipts. They are not processing through any free cash process. We are estimating that they're going to come in and they're part of our immediate spending guide. Um, do you expect so you >> I expect the governor will announce her
her recommendations next weekend and then doesn't she usually do it at um >> she usually >> at the MMA? >> I feel like literally comes out the morning of >> because we're all just sitting there angry and then then get a little happier. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's usually the way that that
goes. So that will just for folks who aren't as familiar with the budget process, we will have a better I mean it does very hard for the legislature to go down. >> I was going to say it typically doesn't get worse. >> Yeah. Thing but buckets move around but it doesn't usually get worse from
typically unless some outside something changes. >> Yeah. Um, so I don't think though on local receipts I'm going to be changing that without I unless and until FY25 is closed, I'm definitely not doing it without seeing those real numbers.
>> How are you feeling about that closing this one? >> Told you I tell you what I feel bad and so far I still feel bad. >> No, not yet. >> All right. So that Let's just go back for a second. Do you have like chapter 90 and other
>> No. No. Because chapter 90 doesn't come into the >> I know it doesn't, but it's still a source that we use. >> It's a source, but it's not a source for the operating. This is just revenues in terms of operating. >> I I understand that. >> Yeah. >> I think we need to make sure we're looking at it. >> Yeah.
>> Factoring it into our >> Well, certainly factoring it in because he's become more reliant on it. like that's where he's doing more and more of his projects and he likely will continue that way. >> It's an amount every year. Are we just
sitting on it? >> No. >> No, but you can carry it over from year to year. >> Pretty high >> because it was it was pretty high. >> He So I I will I think he in his DPW projections actually he had them if you go back to his DPW presentation if it's
not in there. I believe it is though. He he talks about if if there's no um what will happen to chapter 90 if we start to rely on chapter 90 for our payment management plan. It goes down very quickly. And the reason that we're talking about
that is because last year I reduced the payment management plan and I am talking about reducing the payment management plan [clears throat] again as we will see from a few slides. You will see why. So >> can can I go back to new growth for a second? Are you going to are you
estimating that at 400? >> So the the assessors have estimated it at 400 um based on and they did check in with Brian too and he feels okay at that number. The shift has been from
uh new construction to a lot of rens but a lot of rens although more work for him it's the same amount amount of receipts at the end. I kind of think it's you need a lot more rens to have the new growth, a new build, new house, new
something. >> Yeah. Um he he's fairly confident with this. >> So she thinks >> I'm worried it's too high because last year I mean >> it was a lot last year >> 518.
>> Well, we were and we estimated 400 >> and we estimated at 400. I don't know that there was a lot of historical trend too that's been pretty high over the last few years. >> It was a lot higher a few years back when we were in big growth period that's pulled off.
>> I mean you you want to underestimate but not >> but not too much otherwise you start you don't want to starve yourself in the front but the assessors did vote on this they vote they voted on this and the overlay >> last week. >> Can you go back to slide five?
>> I can. I mean the reality is if you wonder free cash >> the cash. Yes. >> I'm worried about overex. >> Well that would just go against free cash. >> You would have to make so the whole revenue pie.
>> Same thing with this. Let me go back to this. We don't need to make every single one of these 100%. We won't make every single one of these 100%. Some are going to be winners. Some are going to be losers. The whole pie needs to be equal to or greater than. And so then you take
this piece and add it with the other. The whole pie needs to be equal to or greater than. >> All right. So we have our starting number. Now we're going to start subtracting things. Okay. The least fun part.
>> The least fun part. So we're going to take off 1.4 4. Right off the top, that's assuming that state assessments. We're taking off school choice and library state aid right away. Those are receipts that come in, but they're
coming in and they're going out immediately to where they belong. We're also taking out the overlay. This is reserved for abatements and exemptions. Um, this is a little higher than last year. Last year at this time of year, they were high and they came down. So,
I'm hoping that that's the same. But one of the reasons why they're higher is because um there's some new programs and we don't know how many folks are going to enroll and take advantage of the programs and so we need money there.
Then we have the state assessments. >> You know what's in the overlay account? >> Do you know what the overlay reserve? No, I can get that for you though. >> I'm sure you will. >> Can that be? Yeah, that carries.
Um, so state assessments, they're going to come instead of budgeting for them, we're just going to take them right off the top. We don't need to budget for them. Here they are. They're coming in right off the top. State assessments. >> What are state assessments? >> State assessments. So, you have your receipts on the front of your charge sheet. And then page two is all the
things that you spend money on. So, examples. [clears throat] My favorite example on this is our mosquito control program. >> So, if you Google Lunick, sorry. um program school choice sending tuition.
>> So school choice sending >> um that expenditure. Um there's like a regional transportation assessment. There's a clean air assessment. There's >> the clean air assessment. >> Yeah. That just everybody gets this assessment. >> We don't pay to get
>> We don't They just take We don't pay. There's no paying. It just >> And that's So that's why we're not going to budget for >> Oh, yeah. No, I know that. veterans benefits. >> All right. Plan >> tax title used to remember I said tax title came into the operating budget. It used to live here as a front-end
exemption but it's really an expenditure. So it's just moving that's a moving of the deck chairs just like state assessments. But so we subtract off those nonappropriated expenses. All right. So here we go.
We're starting with 51,331,376.99. We're subtracting that $1.4 million in non-appropriated expenses. We tend to fund and it's a very good practice a portion of the capital plan from the operating budget.
>> So there's a bit of pay as you go pay they call it pay as you go capital. You're paying for it as you need it. Last year it was 244. This isn't this is an area that has been absorbed year-over-year into the operating budget. We should try to keep some of
this here if that's the way the community wants to continue to fund capital. So total left 49,682,495.99. Now we're going to subtract from that the FY26 appropriations. So all the
expenditures not including the $500,000 just to just not that standalone article just straight from the omnibus that leaves for new revenue 1.1,36,59 that is for everything for town for
school every employee every contract every new item. So how could we aortion that out and how far would it go? So the traditional aortionment is that you take the new
revenue and divide it upon the the percentage breakdown versus school. So that would mean the school would get a entirety of $696,521 above FY25. the town would get 573 and Monty Tech would get 36,000.
Another way to look at it, and this is my last slide, but this really puts our issue squarely before us, is that the school So take that same 1,36,000,
the school's projected health insurance at 740,000, the town's pro projected health insurance at $480,000 minus that because that's non-discretionary, right? minus that from all new revenue and the
town and the school for all employees, all vendors, all everything has $86,000. >> Take out 36,000 for money tech out of that 86. >> No, thank you. >> So 86,000 Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. For Monte
Tech. For Monte Tech. Yes. >> So it's really only 50 >> if if Well, but we don't know what Mont Tech's assessment is, right? Money Tech's going to >> But it's not going to be zero. It's not and it's probably not going to be 36,000. So my tech is going to come at some point with a number and we will pay it. We may be in the negative.
>> I want to pay for >> we we may be in the negative already. So we are in the negative by adding almost anything. >> We have 86,000 left after health insurance >> and just a public service announcement. Money tech is being early this year. So
they're briefing on February 5th. So, we I always kind of found it strange that their briefing said, "Here's your bill. We want to bring them in early and have a discussion prior to them voting on." Um, yeah. So, and then Stephanie Quinn, who's our new rep, will also be at that.
Um, she said she would be at that as well. >> So, I am done talking because I think that this leads you where you need to be for your next part of the discussion. So, I am going to stop sharing
allegedly. Oh, look at all those people here. >> Um, can you make me stop sharing? >> I think I would have to share. Are >> you sharing on Zoom? Are you just >> Maybe I was just sharing with you guys. >> I think just sharing
>> my phone. It was up there if you were sharing. You were again, >> but now you stopped sharing on Zoom and now you're just sharing. >> Oh, you're still sharing with us >> through the projector. >> And it says I'm restricted. Hold on. I think she just turned off. >> Well, that'll do it. There you are.
[laughter] >> And now you're quite the crew tonight. Okay. I appreciate how privacy minded you are with that. >> Well, that stinks. Thank you. Um,
so between now and next meeting, I've already started plugging in kind of the different departments to see where our gap is. >> We're in the millions. >> Yeah. >> Just for level services.
>> I'm I'm plugging in what everybody's requests have been. >> Okay. >> Um, at this point, >> we basically had two requests. We had >> So, I used the level services. I used the word fair which was not a level service. >> It it was to get it
>> it had less strategically. Okay. As long as we have >> I think that was like a $1.5 million increase. >> So >> So just tonight you heard about pretty hefty almost $300,000 increase
for Worester County Regional non-discretionary insurance increase not for property casualty if there is one. I have it level funded right now. Non-discretionary health insurance. I'll find out. That's another thing that I find out. I know some people have heard at the MMA next week.
>> Yeah. >> Um, we find out the how we won't find out Lunenburgg's number. Lunenburgg has been told to budget health insurance at 20% increase. >> Um, >> is that what you did here to get to the 86 20%. >> That was the 20% that I did back in the
fall. Yep. Or whenever that was late summer. So, what they're going to tell us are three numbers. They're going to tell us what the average is for the trust average. We are likely based on our loss runs,
how we're performing, we're likely to be around the trust average. >> They're going to tell us the worst and they're going to tell us the best. Last year I recall that the best
were people. So for those people who are positively impacting the health pool, their loss is great. They're running well. They had I think a 6% was the lowest. So I'm hoping that it's somewhere south of 20.
But again, I I I remember the first increase. It was my first year in this profession on my own. And I remember crossing that 5% into six in change. What I would give >> today for a 6% health insurance increase,
>> but even that doesn't get us where >> it certainly doesn't make it so we have $86,000 better. Do you know how much is in our stabilization? >> Yes. >> Mhm.
>> Let me pull that up. So, stabilization fund, simple majority to put in, um, super majority to come out. at town meeting. [laughter] >> Yeah, it could be four,
>> right? Isn't that something? >> N was >> it was something that was 910. Um, so it is for unforeseen circumstances. >> It
I I'm not saying that we shouldn't tap into it. >> What I'm saying is you don't want to tap into it if it gets worse next year. >> How much? >> I'm calling it. We probably have not used it ever. I
just want to get the most current. >> I know I know we talked about this briefly at the first meeting um and I don't think it would help us for next year, but I still want to throw out there if there's anything we can do negotiating with employees on health
insurance. >> We are actively negotiating right now. >> Okay. I just I'm not saying I don't want to punish our employees. I'm not saying that at all. And for anyone who's listening, I just think it's a it's such a huge area. Like are we businesses do
all sorts of things and I know we're not in the same position as businesses, but >> 3 million 147 will change 3 million. >> I think we had talked about it in the years past. It doesn't even have to be taken away from no healthare. It can be just offering more opportunities,
>> right? More differences. I mean, some companies offer and I don't know what we're allowed to do. So, I I'm just speaking from the cuff, but like some, you know, some will pay more of your deductibles if you pick a higher deductible plan, but then they'll pay your deductibles, right? Like, because a lot of people aren't using I don't
there's lots of different maxim I don't know. >> Actively discussing >> plan design change as opposed to a split change. >> Okay. because it's part of the employees. So,
benchmarking our plan to the GIC. >> So, back to the stabilization town though, did your um countdown budget Ctown include funding stabilization and special stabilization and OPED? >> Does it include funding it?
>> Yeah. >> So, without knowing how much free cash we have, that's a pretty hard thing to answer. Last year I I did not fund stabilization because our stabilization is in the target of where it should be.
It's between five and 15% of your operating budget. And we were above the 5%. I think we were in the sixes. Um and based on what we were doing, I didn't fund that. But OPED is not something that we should fund OPED no matter what. >> Um but that's all being funded from free
cash. Um, I probably wouldn't be putting more money into the stabilization account this year. >> And do you know what the special stabilization was? >> That's what is um labeled as nicely as that one was.
>> But also using those funds that's not that's you want to use those as like a one time. >> It's not a not an operating an operating efficiency because then we're >> I mean we did that last year. Last year there were unexpected
expenses. >> Well, there's a point at which 20% yearoveryear health insurance will mean we're not health insurance. >> It's it's not sustained. It's just not I mean that's crazy. >> Keep going. >> Yeah. I mean I like I don't
>> I mean my health insurance% $78,621 >> 589 >> 598 >> I think the private se the private sector can so over a little bit more than the public >> more but even that's getting hit now >> so one has 3 million and >> so the vehicle stabilization fund can
only be used for vehicles >> that was the vehicle two >> two 2.59 >> million >> so >> on foreshadowing a portion of the FY27 capital plan will be funded from the vehicles
>> the plan to be funded from the vehicle stabilization. There's a couple big vehicles on there. You know, you're not going to want to use a vehicle stabilization fund for like a $200,000 pickup truck. >> We do know we need a ladder truck though. That's the one that's >> we want to save, right? We want to keep
enough for the ladder truck in there um and make sure that we don't deplete it. I don't I actually see so the vehicle stabilization fund was a product of good economic times
>> um that we are benefiting from that ability to put away for a rainy day. It's foreseeable that that >> well all these dates they have >> it's foreseeable that it could get taken down to zero at some point right it to
pay for things >> that wasn't something >> like maybe the fire truck was the last purchase >> Jen would you recommend using the stabilization fund to supplement the budget this year >> no
>> no I don't think we're anywhere near the bottom Yeah, >> I don't think this state situation is going to get any better in the coming years. Their revenues are going down. Population in Massachusetts is dropping
off, businesses are dropping out. I just read the other day that in this state there's 57 billion dollars of unfunded pensions between local and state employees. That's a huge huge hole
>> and that's why I want to keep considering to wear OPAD no matter what. >> Right. Right. Ship it away. >> But it's also going to get into the equations like when I ask should we outsource this or should we keep it in house? We got to take that long view that we're paying in retired employees
forever. Health insurance is really large and there's certain things I do not think we should bring in house. We should just outsource them so that we're not having to deal with all these these issues. >> What are you thinking?
>> Like um road maintenance. >> I don't think snow removal should be brought in house. >> It's interesting. >> What do you think we do as roads? >> I don't know. >> I mean there's there's a there's a lot of doing this maybe
>> like like support like janitorial and support >> facilities and such like that that you can outsource. There's companies that do that all the time. >> Yeah. >> It's actually cheaper to do it that way. >> But any new hires, I mean that that's a number that you've got to be considering
long term is that retirement >> because it's huge >> and it's a cost to doing business. >> So I mean there part we have to remember this is public sector, right? So there are everybody that's in this position, there are costs and benefits to that
employee taking a position. Many folks that are in the public sector are not earning at their level that they would be earning in the private sector. >> And so the benefit of that, the offset there is that you have your retirement
and your health insurance. See, that's so about it's been a while like 8 to 10 years ago, they did a study on that and that disparity isn't what people think it is. >> It's it's it's >> for your high level for your
>> Well, you get that. Yeah, >> I disagree. >> Yeah. [laughter] Like the the reality is having been both in the public sector and now in the private sector, like there's no comparison. I mean, I I started my job as a state while making $32,000 a year.
>> How university students graduate into public service? Like 1% of people that graduate paid 26,500. Yeah. In the city house 265. That was a shot. >> Um I have a question that might be met with opposition. Hit it.
>> Okay. I'm working with the city right now. Uh it's not a town, it's a city. They have a town manager. They have a mayor. They have a city council. they're working together. They have this exact problem. I think everybody has this exact problem. >> So this is very common, right? >> Um so this is city of Massachusetts.
They just went back to their departments and asked them to make some cuts. >> So So the department heads um have been asked to start preparing 5% cuts. It does not I have said um it doesn't mean every single department's getting 5%.
Right? it. Some departments might achieve growth while others have cuts. Um but I've asked them to undertake that exercise so we can start seeing where things are. >> This is a sea change for people. You
know, I think that when we talk about there's no more discretionary spending whatsoever. You get blue pens and black pens and white paper. And if you want anything
that's not that, go buy it. That is a sea change. But I think that's where we are because I think that to me there's not going to be one solution out of this based on how big this gap is that I'm seeing. >> I think it's going to be a combination.
It's going to be 11. It's going to be cuts, efficiencies, and override. >> And I think it's scary, too. We've already seen it over the past few years. And I mean, parents are paying for the supplies and sending in supplies to schools. Like the schools have hit those
hard cuts. Not much left to squeeze out >> because the idea of a 5% cut last year we >> we can't cut anymore. Like there's just >> Yeah. >> I mean it could be the turf. >> You know what I mean? It could be
>> it's good. >> But just like looking at all the budget >> I could see things that are like you know maybe there could be a cut here cut there. >> The turf's not even >> I'm just saying I'm just using an example. It's going to be a lot more I I mean >> yeah I mean I would just say that I mean
I think we should I don't know what your thoughts are Jen but you know talking about this in two weeks like you know I you know obviously I've not been shy about the schools need an override I am happy to work with all the departments to come up with a number um but the schools as a school committee I think I
can confidently say we cannot cut another position. We may not be successful in an override, but whether the select board I mean hopefully the select board will be on board, right? But like I think you we should know that that is I mean we
I mean our kindergarteners are 25 kids in a class with no aid. Can you imagine having 25 5-year-olds in your class with no aid? I mean I >> absolutely can imagine that in any other school system sometimes there's 35 36 people in a class. >> That's not true in Massachusetts. >> No, it's illegal.
>> It's illegal. Yeah. Amanda asked um Dr. question or not. There are up to 32 kids in a class without an aid. >> That's not that in a very very very harsh environment with kids with multiple different types of learning and do they
>> so in our kind can I absolutely >> in our kindergarten class when I was in math we had an average of a full-time >> just kindergarten or >> kindergarten. Imagine sending our kids to a school with 19 kids and a
kindergarten classroom with an eight. >> Yeah, >> that's amazing. I would be happy to live in a place where my kids could have 19 only 19 kids. >> So, no, they're getting way more than the kids in Lunberg are.
>> Um, Dr. Fortuna, >> 19 kids, >> would you like to compare Lunberg public schools to Madan public schools? Other schools have a huge way more state funding >> on teacher education >> is very important. I I mean Dr. Fortuna
you can you can say you could >> I would not compare Madipan to Lunberg. However, I do think 25 students without an aid for 5 year olds is nearly impossible.
And I do think it's why we're seeing some of the literacy scores that we're seeing. >> Is this kindergarten only you're talking about? >> Uh, no. Actually, some of the grades have >> I would say kindergarten through grade three. >> Okay. So, this is just K through three, not four through >> No, the other ones are large.
>> My nephew was in fourth grade has 27 kids in his class. >> Okay. >> Yeah, they are also large, >> right? >> And but the third grade literacy was terrible. >> I thought it was very good. >> No, it was 46% reading. >> No, it's awful. 46% of our kids are at
third grade. >> We're feeling hopeful about the programs that we have in place, especially back from when we had more money and we spent ARPA funds on uh >> what was the assessment that you just received last school meeting. >> It was just an assessment of our
curriculum. Are we doing the right things? >> Do we have the right curriculum? >> Do we have the right curriculum? >> And we have good teachers in place to implement the curriculum, but not enough of them. not on staff. >> And I want to say on staff I I want to
say I don't have questions. >> I actually have two. >> Thank you. I sit here more. >> Um >> we're definitely making the right moves with the curriculum that we have purchased. Um and we hope to rectify
that. But it is really difficult with the class sizes and the lack of support that we have for teachers um to practice their craft with the class sizes the way they are. >> Okay. Can I make two comments and one
question? Um one comment is we have a fourth ship fiber that's not included in this. And what did that come in at? >> Okay. Yeah. >> All in half a million. >> So, >> but it will be in his budget request.
>> It was >> it was in his it was in his budget request. So, >> yeah, he gave both prices. So, um half a million additional for that. Um unrelated to his other budget drivers. Um >> but the 86 doesn't include the 86,000 ex
like extra money that doesn't even cover level services. So it's that's not covering anybody. That's why >> that's what we have to spend to cover whatever even more we >> not even more though. Not even the level, right? So 86,000 is not like expansion.
>> No. So if if so >> Yes. So to be clear [laughter] if we do not have either significant cuts or an override or a combination thereof.
Okay. coupling of the two. We We don't have enough funds to meet our obligations. So, it's impossible. It is impossible right now to to get much of anywhere. 86. So, $86,000
for that unit contract, $86,000 for the teachers contract, $86,000 for the clerical union, $86,000 for >> for everybody's just two and a half 3% colas. And I you know what I do want to
I do want to say to this group about colas I don't think that this is the time that we turn to our staff and say this is a tough budget year no >> colas >> and and so to expand upon why I'm saying
that >> that 20% increase of the health insurance >> alsoffects them >> affects them on their their 25% they're getting on their 25% % they're getting a 20%. >> In addition, if we are doing cuts,
>> yeah, >> we're asking folks to perhaps do more, >> be more efficient, be leaner. And so for the if if you are a person who makes $100,000
for the difference between 2500 and 3,000 or zero, it just on scale it seems to be a real slap in the face to me. So, I did want to say that while we may have less heads, we need to
still take care of the heads that we got here. >> I was going to say before the McDonald, we had about 20% school we just couldn't keep and it wasn't a matter of we couldn't keep like
high-end people. We just couldn't keep anything. And so, you know, if we get into this spiral where we don't have money and we don't have people, it's over. >> I think you're seeing that in town government right now. You're seeing that spiral. Yeah.
>> So the other thing it's just a comment if I don't have a solution or an answer but if I remember the numbers right for the kindergarten was roughly like salary is 22k and if they took the family you know the
high insurance it was 31. >> Like that's that's the the insurance costs more than the that's just nuts. I don't know what can be done about it. >> That's crazy. I I don't know if the positions can be rethought share. I don't know. And maybe not everyone's
going to take the family plan. Fine. But um that was the other thing. And then the question I had was about and this is going back now to the December tri board. The report on the reading. So kids are tested. Let me just
use grade three as an example because I don't know how this works. They're tested when they start grade three and they're under grade three reading level at the start. So they're tested twice a year. >> Okay. >> And the test in the spring is to count. >> They should be yet. >> Yes. And the the test in the fall, it's
not uncommon for >> I was going to ask is that I mean >> Yeah. It's not uncommon for them to be below grade level because they're just starting. That's what Okay. But they are tested again and hopefully they will majority or whatever. But I'll
be at grade level or above. Yeah, >> but the testing data we showed you in December was not for the current third graders. >> So it was for the kids who are now in fourth grade. >> So when they were tested, are they reading at third grade level? >> So that was the end of their third grade year,
>> right? Dr. Fortuna third grade, they still weren't up to grade level. >> Exactly. >> Wait, wait, let's let Dr. Unfortunately, she's >> she's >> That is true. >> So, the the the data you shared in
December for was it grade three? I don't know. So, let's just use grade three, >> right? >> That the kids who are below grade three reading level had already completed grade three. >> Yes. Correct. That was our outcast data.
>> Yeah. >> And under half. >> So they're they're in grade four and they still can't read at grade three level. >> Yes. >> To anticipate a possible objection. There is a trend in the data on MDS for 10th graders where we believe that
because of the vote they were not taking it seriously. But there is no reason to believe the trend that caused the blip in 10th grade applies to the third graders. the you're talking about MCCAST not being required anymore. >> It's likely that the 10th graders aren't
trying as much. >> Yes, but the third graders we do not believe will still try >> state statewide there is no reason to believe explanation. [laughter] So, at the last finance committee meeting, and we'll probably write this up and vote on it and send a letter or
something, but we do believe there's operational um efficiencies to be gained in things like we pay roughly a half a million dollars a year for recycling. Why are we doing that? Why are we paying a half million dollars to recycle?
>> We should not. >> Huh? >> We should not. >> No. Right. >> The other one is is we've got to deal with builders. TC Pasios cost us over $100,000 a year um or you know more than the available budget we have this year.
We've got to start making plans to deal with things like TC Pasios and those were only a couple that you know we were thinking things like the ambulance receipts if they could stay within the operational budget go that's
>> but things like that I think we all need to start to think about. So I after your meeting finance committee where that was brought up I had a meeting with the facilities director on Friday and he is
preparing a report for me. Um I think folks recall that one of the reasons that we were talking about a winding or a decommissioning of a portion of TCP is those huge oversized boilers that used to heat two buildings underground. Yeah,
>> if we decommission a portion of the building, we will yield savings. Now that we are in heating season, we are not realizing those savings. >> So the carrying costs of that building have not been reduced such that
it's making sense. Um I asked him to prepare that report. Um, based on that report, I've already said that I want to set up a meeting with all of the occupants and stakeholders involved in the building. Um, although I think that
a winding down for July 1st is unlikely. I think planning based on what's going on, planning for a winding down sometime in F127 needs to be discussed. So, one thing that might mean is that things like the gym was used for voting and for
activities and stuff like that, we may need to go back to being able to use the schools for those kind of things. >> So, that's where I think efficiencies within the town need to start to be looked at. >> We need to know just ahead of time before we set the calendar. >> Well, I mean, we can always change the
calendar, but because we don't have school this year, we added election day back in. Well, we haven't officially, but we're looking at adding election day back in because we don't have people coming in to vote, but it's generally better to not have students.
>> So, can you review? >> Yes. So, the current we have um a ly. So, Shapiro Behavioral Educational Center is a ly using four rooms. Our permanent occupants are pack
uh recreation has a presence there for some rec programming. Um as well as the gym uh food pantry. Uh there is cold storage there that could remain um even if the build until the unless until the
building was totally gone. We can keep cold storage there. and uh town clerk voting um and the town clerk storage for her machines and the food pantry >> and
center use inside the gym. >> Oh, they use the gym. >> The gym. Okay. So, we're carrying a lot of costs at a time that we're talking about need
to haves versus nice to haves and that's real. I think if folks want to give some feedback thought on the trash program and the recycling program residents if they're hearing that I
think that that's kind of an area that is something that I would be really willing to hear if folks are supportive of because that's an easier it's an easier cut than some of the others right um but that would mean that as a community
you are taking care of your own recycling and would have to revisit the trash contract. Not saying it's impossible, but would have to revisit the >> cont. So, our contract W Shaw includes >> trash and recycle. It's the whole program. >> So, we'd have to pull up the contract
and look at what the language is and whether or not subject to appropriation, you know, what the language is and how amen. >> We can recycle it down. Mhm. >> So there's already opportunity for us to
>> I will say anecdotally I have heard that if you remove your community from like a trash enterprise the likelihood of you ever getting back is longterm down the road. So >> I wanted to separate the trash
enterprise the grow from just the recycling cost which used to I think actually be revenue. >> Yeah, >> but it's no long gone and it's cost recycling now charge
>> where it was a revenue. However, another option is that you can increase the pay as you throw program such that you're offsetting the entirety of the program. So the bag fee pays for the recycling and the trash. >> So that's unfair.
>> That's unfair because the recycling is free to everyone. the bag. >> Well, you could change, but I'm saying you could change the program, >> right? So that you have the whole program is being covered by a feed whether it's bags or sticker.
>> Mr. Chair, I just want to note for the record that we've fallen below quum on the school committee. >> Okay. >> Because we only have four people to start out with because George Vi, >> we no longer have quum for us.
probably. >> Do you have anybody on? >> So, you're adjourned as of I guess when she >> took off. Yeah. Come on and get off. >> You're still wcoming particip. [laughter]
I'm just uh for the trash part, I am very uh concerned about just swapping out a uh a fee for what's already in the taxes. I guess is my concern. >> You just swapping and making the citizens pay a different way. >> Yes.
>> So, there's going to be a lot of what I call values choices in this for folks. They are going to be deciding what they value. Whether it's valuing the ease of having the municipality take care of things like trash and that's a value
that they want to sustain, whether they're valuing all the different services as they exist currently in the budget or if people are having conversations that ah maybe this is a time to have that more difficult conversation about what we value as a community.
I mean, I think that the issue is is when we're working with these cities and they come and we say you have to cut 5%. This is not like can you please cut 5%. You need to cut 5%. Or we'll cut it for you where we see that it's necessary in that city particularly. I don't think we
want to get there in a like that. >> The other thing that's very different about that form of government is that you don't have town meeting. You have the people who are making those decisions around the budget are the whatever it is 11 city councilors who
are most tied into the day-to-day operations and they are making those budgetary adjustments each and every week. We have a different piece where we have to educate our residents, get feedback on what it is they value, get feedback
of where it is that cuts can be reasonable. >> Well, this is a civic engagement residential engagement project, right? So they're engaging citizens in voices, >> but >> but ultimately those city councilors are going to vote how they vote and you know >> they're going to cut where they want to cut, but they're giving departments the
opportunity to cut like you're saying where they can. >> Some departments have already come back and really identified some easy cuts. There's a retirement position. We cannot fill that position. Okay, that's easy because we're not talking about a
person. the effect of not filling that position to the operation of that department. It's one less body. So, >> all right. Um, any other major topics? >> I just think it's important that we
don't forget the the root of all this this problem is the state and their lack of support for the uh cities and towns. And you know, we all agree on these issues and I think it's really important that, you know, we we don't fight and
have it be a divisive issue for the community and that we just keep our focus attent uh on on these, you know, our state legislators and hold them accountable for what what they really are doing to our communities.
>> I I think I want to I want to just say something. I mean, if if I could just I mean, there's no better example with, you know, we don't even know financially what the state is where the 72% of the Massachusetts voters passed an audit and we still haven't seen the results of
that audit. You know, to me personally, it's it's a it's a tough hill to climb to pass another override without that information in hand because we're just perpetuating the problem that the state is forcing on the towns. I I
do want to respond that audit is not about auditing the state funds. That audit specifically was about auditing the state legislature. That has nothing to do with auditing funds. That is auditing the behavior of the state legislature. >> Well, that would be important information for us to have.
>> So, it has nothing to do with money. It's the behavior of the state legislature. And it's not the state does have an audit. I disagree that this is a problem and I and I'm not going to accept the premise that this is a problem being driven only by the state.
The state has a serious issue here in in its funding. The reports have said that the state is not responsible for the health insurance increase. The state is not responsible for other increases that we're seeing. This is the economy. We
cannot lay it all on the feet of any one group. This is the perfect storm. This is a variety of things. And I think that if we are to just sit here as we embark on this and put this all at the state and
say not a state, we're not solving the problems that our residents are going to be facing on July 1st. Can can I just say something on behalf of the school committee even though we don't import them anymore. Um, one of
the problems that we have is that while it is not the majority of our funding, we also receive federal aid and the federal aid is going to lapse. >> And when it lapses, it will be mixed in with general aid to the states to have
the states sort them out. So it is unlikely that we will get the same amount of aid from the federal government. So it is not for us it's a different set of problems because we we have the problems with the state funding
and with the health insurance but we also are having the the third leg of our stool cut out from underneath us >> at a time when inflation is not great. So I I think that like if we don't solve
this problem ourselves then the problem will not get solved and >> correct. >> But you are you asking for like a prop you two and a half in case you lose the federal funds. >> No we need it now whether we get >> so then if you lo federal funds then what gets >> it will be worse. >> So you ask again? >> Yes.
>> The problem the problems that we're going to have are going to be systemic and it's dependent on what the aid looks like. And so it's not good now and it will get worse in the future. But the thing that we have to deal with is we just have we have legal obligations that
we can't fulfill at a certain point. And if we can't fulfill those, then we pay to settle lawsuits and we pay our bills. And it's just that's not a tenable place to be because it's more expensive than what we're doing now. it. We just, you
know, like the problem that we are facing in schools is dire and it is going to get worse because of the way that the federal government is behaving and we have no control over that. So, we have to fix it ourselves. I kind of feel like we're in a boat and somebody is shooting our boat and I don't know who
it is that's shooting our boat, but we've got to fix it ourselves. >> Right. I mean, I agree. I agree with everything that you say. I agree with what the school community says and town council. I just think as as a finance person and as someone sitting on the finance committee, we're just going to need a little bit more transparency on
how funds are managed, moved around, used before we can support another two and a half um prop. >> I want to piggyback on that before we conclude. There had been some talk of a forum.
I'm hearing a lot of conversation in the community that folks want to have that forum. >> Sure. Right. >> So, um I think especially as we're starting to talk about the gap and the delta and the need >> Yeah. >> the sooner that you guys are able to do
that, I think the more questions that are lingering can at least get answered so that >> I don't want there to be a big elephant in the room that's not really an elephant in the room, right? Like >> we'll be ready. You tell us when and we'll be ready. you
had we postponed it from last week because of a leak and we'll schedule >> when we're avail when happens. >> Are you saying specifically a school forum >> based off of the memo? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we could have a
forum to invite the public and >> the school committee had said they were going to come up with >> we're just waiting on >> Yeah. We want to let people ask because there's a lot of questions and it's just easier. >> Yeah. Well, if you're if you're wondering and you're a member of the public, other people are probably
>> Yeah, I'm just saying that it might not have to be limited to just the school. You can have a school form, but maybe we have a >> tri board form. >> I think if we if we are going to do an override, we should absolutely absolutely have an override form.
>> Uh maybe maybe that will cut down on discussion at town meeting. No, I think it makes sense, but I think it's having that forum to talk about the the previous budget. >> I I mean, I still hear things like where is the where is the missing money? It
was never actually like there's nothing missing. Nothing's Yeah. >> need the money that did need the money didn't get expended. We are upset about it too. >> So, just violence element of trust, public trust. >> You were invited. As a matter of fact,
>> it's what you said. You have to hear it three times before you hear it. >> Um, can I put you on the spot? >> So, we have to go to town meeting with the balanced budget. >> Mhm. >> Independent of any override. >> Mhm.
>> How you going to do that? >> You don't always have to go to first town meeting with that. >> You can go to town meeting with an override budget and that can be the budget that passes or fails at town meeting >> then you have another town meeting. Is that what you think >> that's
I think we're very early to talk strategy but that that should be part of the strategy discussion. What makes more sense? >> I think so as school I can't do a third year of telling people you may be losing your job. Like it's just it's getting
the amount of stress we have put the school employees under. >> Asking for an override and passing over getting over pass are two very different. >> I know. But I'm just saying >> I want I want people to keep that in mind when we talk about h how we're going to do this because um
we have been this town has been this and the school committee has been putting the employees through hell to this will be the third year that we have lots of employees who are concerned about their employment and it wears on them. We have
lost really good staff members because of the uncertainty. It has affected things across the school. We can't keep doing this. And also it's just not it's cruel to do to our employees. And I think my current
I change my mind every day about this. No, but I my current thought is exactly what Glenn said that we don't want to be fighting for whatever is available. that whatever override attempt, my current thought is that it would be best
to have it be one, that everybody is together because that fight of who wins and who loses on town meeting floor that we could have either everybody walks away loser, everybody's individual override fails, or you have winners and
losers. Doesn't help the picture that we just talked But you can even do like tier tier that are also together. >> You can do tier over. You will get you will get the lowest tier. >> So just go in with tier one. >> It's it's a really hard map when they
get confused. >> Yeah. Just go in with tier one cuz they're going to pick the lowest option. >> I think that more so than like how do we divide a shrinking pie? The problem isn't that we have a shrinking pie. It's
that all of the groups This is probably why we did the drive board. All of the groups think that we have separate countries and we don't. And I think that if we can work on a solution that tells everybody what the pie is and
rises, you know, the the rising tide lifts all boats. It will fix some of the problems in the town. Like I don't I think that one of the things that we've been doing that is not helpful is that we have been territorializing uh something that is all one territory
and like I've talked to you about this personally but I you know like the the way that the budget works for us and health insurance you know like it's kind of a joke. I know it doesn't really matter, but we're we do those things to ourselves
and they are self-inflicted wounds. And at the end of the day, the people who suffer are the old people in town, the kids in town, and our employees. Like the majority of us here, we're in a little bit different position. And so it's not the same. But like we are
speaking for people who cannot like some of them are legally prevented from speaking for themselves. And if we keep territorializing these fights and saying like we get this and you get that, that's just not working >> and it's not a realistic pi picture when
the single largest driver of costs is something that impacts all the town employees equally. We've got to fix this together. >> And I don't think, you know, overrides have been demonized and I think some towns have used them maybe a little freely.
This doesn't give anybody great pleasure. Nobody's feeling joyful about this notion. We're not going to ask for the taxpayers to turn the screws on them, right? You This is a l Whenever we go, if we go,
it's it's to ask them to put the hand on the release valve. So, an override is a release valve. There's pressure building below. Before Proposition 2 and a half, the town could just come in and switch that valve and let it off. We're asking
the residents to make a choice. It's a choice of whether or not to release that valve and how much so to let the pressure off. And if they don't, that is fine. We will live with that choice. But there will be substantial there will be substantial confirmation
line by line. >> No one's going to read li. >> Sure. You guys do it. We're going to say something. >> No voters. That's not that's not how the voters work, right? >> That's how we have to do it. >> Sure, I understand. But like when they
go to the the ballot box, no one is sitting there being like line 615 is off. What we have to figure out and what I think is really valuable is to have you guys weigh in, give you all the information you want, have you guys weigh in and then present that to the town >> and present that to the voters. But we
have to recognize that like and I I said this at our school committee meeting. We are asking somebody to pay more which might mean that some 89year-old woman is trying to reorganize her med schedule because she can't afford it anymore. >> And so before we ask them to pay more,
we really need to do some reflection about what we're spending and what our priorities are. >> Right. So I I don't I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think that like we need to conceptualize this as what happens to people, you know, and what happens to like uh a kindergartener who
comes to school and whose parents, you know, don't speak English, so they're going to learn how to speak English in our schools. What happens to a kid who uh has was born with a disability and can't get around one of the school buildings because it's not ADA
compliant? What happens to uh a senior who really needs to have, you know, regular contact and socialization, but the programs at the Eagle House are scaled back? Like that's how voters are impacted. >> What happens to a travel person that has to go to Fitchburg, not the Reggie?
>> Oh, let me tell you. I would much rather than don't do this decisions that need to be made. >> It's crazy that we have to go. I don't want to go. We don't have to go. Ah, and every other school's going and you're going to lose kids cuz they're going to leave and they're going to go somewhere
else. >> Then your population goes down and then your school budget goes down. >> I don't know because hard decisions need to be made and that's an easy decision. Kids did indoor track and they went to Fitchburg. I think to that point it's not about
because I it's not about the cost per se about going to Reggie Lewis Center in the $50 million that cost is dimminimous >> in in the 50 million it's dimminimous. >> It is that's true. >> However, the perception is >> it's the perception that is huge. That
perception is big. Like you talked about how people don't say, "Oh, you know, look at it and say line 66, 715." People did during the override look line by line and say, "I disagree with this one line item, so I am not voting for the override because I
disagree on this one thing." >> The Reggie Lewis thing is ridiculous. Like we go every week, I sit there and I count how many buses and then I figure out what the waiting >> on the nuts. We need to we need to have some meeting
among the schools to say we're not doing this. >> It has to be a group effort. Exactly. It can't be a Lunberg effort >> because if if we if we bow out, our kids suffer. But if everybody bows out, it changes the game. >> But communitywise, they're not going to want to go line by line. That's not what's going to happen is we're going to go line by line. And if we are not
satisfied by line by line and expenditures and perception and what you know, now I need two and a half and I need it again in a few years. now use for operational cost. Then we are going to be very vocal at town meeting and say all of these things and then you know
who knows how that's going to sway. >> But I think it's having that communication ahead of time talking with the superintendent doing the the ground work in the meetings. >> I do think we have a better superintendent, a better finance person, a better city manager on board. We have a good team. Like I am. So
>> I'm hopeful that the rest of the team will be joining us shortly because having a finance director here will be huge. I think we're in the upswing. I think I know Dr. Funa from before and she's great and I think Chris is really good too. That's the new
finance. >> His name is C Money actually Money. >> There's a lot of Chrises. Um, so I think we're on the swing mayor and we're going to get a more transparent >> Yes. >> budget. >> He gives it he gives it to if you follow the meetings you'll see I'll tell you
what percentage we are where we should be >> and it looks good right now. >> It does look good right now. >> All right. So I [clears throat] think we're done. Um just a reminder important dates trioboard meeting the next one is January 27th. If I can get topics as
soon as possible because >> topics is this is I'm handing it. So I'm going to give you the delta. Okay. >> I'm handing this kind of back to you guys. You guys need to come ready to discuss dialogue pull this part
of the conversation this whole last hour. That's what I'm envisioning this to be next try is to really >> start digging in into the plan >> cuz we had we wanted we talked about having a full dedicated discussion on
this alone >> so >> one topic. >> So but we're not ready for that public discussion. >> We need to people need to go home think absorb what makes sense. Talk to your neighbors. Go to go to your go to your
people. >> Chris, >> can we send you like if if you say send me the topics the school committee wants to talk about by Friday, will that work? So we don't sit here and waste time talking about what we can talk about. >> Let's just Yeah. Send it
>> to the the three chairs. >> Okay, sounds good. We can do that. >> The other like poll maybe straw poll here. Um to date we've not had public comment. I think the next meeting maybe we should consider having um public comment. >> Absolutely.
>> Yeah. >> Does anyone object to that? >> Will the rest stop still be at 10? >> What? Yes. >> Maybe they may be time bound for a half hour 45 minutes. I was I laughed when I said that but we'll have a lot of comments. So
>> that's step anyways is to get the post. I was just I was actually suggesting that we didn't end at 10, but don't shoot me >> next time or this time. >> Not. Huh? >> No, not this time or any. >> No, no, no. Not this time. I'm just saying if there was a lot of public comment, would there be an appetite to
hear people if people have not advocating for meetings past 10, but this might be a circumstance where >> What if we put the public comment at the beginning? Yeah, >> I am so grateful that everybody has embarked on this effort because I think
the one thing that we have compared to some of the other communities is it's January 12th and here here we are. It's not March. Y we we're normally do having these conversations in March, February, March, right? So here we are. >> We've got the runway
>> to go back to what was said previously. I do think this is a product of you and a product of Dr. Fu. So I want to express gratitude for her. >> I wish she was here. She has been wonderful to our
>> She's here. [laughter] >> She's we appreciate both of you. >> All right. So >> can I ask her one thing? So we don't have a number like the the half million for the police department. I but I don't
want to ask you to make a budget. Okay. Never mind. >> I'm working on it. >> Good. Okay. >> That's what I'm gonna because I I That's >> what I want to do is to outline the worst. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> So, here's everybody's requests. >> The one difference between what we have and what we're the big number >> the big number that will be the outside. >> That's the worst it will be. and we start cutting where we can cut, creating
a creating the efficiencies where we can kick, being smart about it. Hopefully at that point, hopefully the state has a little better revenue figure than zero. >> All right. So, Jenny and Jody can kind of come up with a summary that for all of those.
>> She's got one number in the summary. So, it's her I have the number. It's one and a half million. 1,464,000 is her outside. Yeah. So, >> that was the one in our presentation. [clears throat] But the concern I have too it's leaning towards the oh this would be the
override number that'll get us through a year >> and that's my concern is in the past we were like what's the override that will supply us and how long will this actually last and we did the override for a year and we don't want to come back the next year for >> do it every year. So, remember what we
talked about before? >> Remember how we talked about before about taxing to the mass that we tax all the way to the levy limit? There are some communities we I tried this in a previous community. I was told that it would be good and then it was like not
good. So, they didn't like it. That's not fine. Different communities are different. You can get an override and not expend it fully. So, you go through the effort. Let's say you got a ten I'm going to say ridiculous numbers. Say you got a $10 million override and you only
tax to the first five million. You don't need to go. Now you've increased your you have excess levy capacity. You have a ceiling. It's town meeting still has to appropriate the budget each and every town meeting. So
they're still allowing you to go beyond, but you don't need that double vote. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that conversation is still >> that's it. So in that community what the people had said they had never had an they they hadn't had an override in over 20 years
>> and they said we don't think that people are going to want to keep coming back every year. They don't want to keep voting it every year. So we planned it for that. And then when we got to town meeting they said we want to vote every single time our taxes go up. So we don't
want this override. We want the exact dollar figure override. Okay. And they sound more like rumor style, but then coming back another year would never work. So there's there's got to be >> that you want and over will last more
than a year. I'm very curious to hear if there's some inkling on if this insurance issue is going to continue at this 20% year-over-year, then it makes no sense to just not take care of a couple years of insurance increases.
>> Yeah. >> All right. Um and just again, I'm reminded that Monty Tech will be at the finance committee if you're interested in that on the 5th. And I think storm water task force as well um will be It's good for a school committee to be there to see like what we're actually paying other schools. That's
>> crazy. >> And Laura split because George was the finance committee leazison and he's gone. So unless we get somebody new, >> he he needs to get his resignation into the town clerk. So he's So that >> is official. It's not official yet.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, and with that, if the select board can >> I'll make a motion to adjourn the select board at 9:52 p.m. >> Second. >> All right. And I would make I would recommend a motion that we finance
committee. >> All right. All those in favor? I are a different >> I don't know when you make that a habit