What are the odds a Chromebook would malfunction? Come on. All right. I don't know if is there is there anyone who's going to want to lead us in the pledge tonight before we get Okay,
great. All right. And good evening everyone and welcome to this the May 12th, 2025 meeting of the Lunberg Planning Board. We are here upstairs in the Bilata meeting room at
town hall. And if you've heard me say that, you're already already here with us. Welcome and thank you. Or you are watching us at home. If you are watching us at home and you want to comment, go ahead and log in with Zoom. You can do
that by well, our agenda is on the town website and the Zoom link is there. you can log in and you can comment uh you know use the hand raise feature to comment. This meeting is being recorded and I believe that's everything we're
required to say. So without further ado um if there's anyone who wants to lead us in the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Excellent. So, we will open up as always with public comment. There'll be some hearing public hearings and stuff going
on later. So, if you're aiming for one of those, we can save comments till then. But for general public comment, do we have any? Seeing none. All right, we'll go on to the chair's report.
Um, few things going on tonight. One of which, um, we're shortly going to have Nells Nelson with us from Community Scale to kind of show us some options and talk through some choices we have going forward for MBTA communities.
Um what's going to happen with that is here in Lunenburgg we are on the later end of implementing uh this mandated by the state bylaw and that's fine. So what we're going to be doing is tonight we're going to be hearing some presentations
from Nells or a presentation with some options from Nails. Um as a board we may discuss that some tonight but I'm going to encourage us to do that after our public hearings because we have a lot of people waiting. Um and then we're going to take about
month and a half to uh make have some discussions as a board. The goal is to have a couple uh public info design meetings to go over the options and then with all that feedback the board will be
able to come to a decision about which option for the MBTA communities and again that's a that's a mandate of about for us about 240 units of fairly dense housing much denser than
we typically see in Lunberg um put down on us by the Uh we're going to be looking at that. I do want to let the um board know that a line item now that a line item has opened up in the budget, we're going to be able looking at getting some interim
planning help. Um well, we'll also eventually be looking at hiring a new planner as well for the town. At least in the meet in the uh interimm we'll be able to look at some options. I'm working with the office on that. I think those are the biggies that aren't otherwise in the meeting or don't
require an extra explanation. Okay. And without further ado, um first item on our agenda is we do have um Nells from Community Scale here tonight. Yeah. Uh virtually.
Hi. Hi, Nells. Hello everybody. And uh I did get your email this afternoon. uh about um the 40R and everything. So glad to hear it. Good
deal. Okay. Um well, it's a privilege and an honor to be able to speak with the the planning board tonight. Um I have a short presentation that will walk us through what this means, what some of the options are. Um so I can go ahead and hopefully jump right into that. Let
me see if I can share my screen. Oh, uh it's not turned on. I'm going to send a request to get it up. So, Nells, apologize. One sec. Uh, Logan, since you're hosting, can you give Nell's permission to share? And
could we get the volume a little louder in the room, please? It's a little hard to hear Nells. I'm going to assume TV heard that because I realize I have no way of verifying, but that should do it. Getting a thumbs up. So, good.
Okay, I can share now. Nice. Okay. Um, now let's do this one. All right. Everyone see the town seal? Yep. Excellent. Okay. Um so I will just
start by saying that um we were connected to Lunenburgg through um MHP the Massachusetts Housing Partnership. Um the our involvement with the town is funded by a technical
assistance grant. So, we're contracted with MHP and here to provide technical assistance to the town of Lunberg on your pathway towards compliance. So, Lunenburgg is an adjacent small town in the eyes of this
legislation. Um, you don't need to comply until the end of this calendar year. Um the amount of multif family capacity is determined by the state based upon how many households there
are. And so um the allotment for Lunenburgg is 240 um units of multif family unit capacity that has to be on at least 5 acres of land. And because you're an
adjacent small town, um it doesn't have to be put anywhere in particular. So some other the communities you might have heard about have to put it within a half mile or some part of it within half mile of a transit station. That's not
the case in Lindberg. You have kind of free reign in terms of um what part of the community it needs to be in. Um there's a couple other requirements in terms of what where the the multif family capacity can and can't be. Um but
kind of holistically if it's a privately owned site that's not in the wetland um then uh it should be good to go for for adding capacity. So the other thing I'll note is that this isn't um a building
mandate. It's a mandate to um have by right multif family capacity at 15 uh units per acre. So with that um we received um from that a couple ideas for
initial places where um it could be where the capacity could be located um in Lunberg. Um you'll notice that some of these already have some housing on them. um that is something that is okay by the way that
the legislation is written. And so for example, you have a 40R district that has 131 units in it. Um if you were to reszone that to be by right, um in a
sense, you'd be getting credit for the good work that um Lunenburgg has already done. Um and so that would count towards your your multif family capacity. So we're going to look through these four options at kind of a high level and then
have a discussion about the pros and cons of uh of each of them. So the first one is and this this zoom bar is kind of okay I can move that out of the way. uh is is 131 White
Street, which um is um has enough district acres, so it's almost 6 acres. Some of that is excluded land cuz it's within a wetland. Um but the fact that you could reszone the whole site and have 5 acres means that
it would be eligible. Um there are 54 units on there right now. It's in your RA zone. However, the issue is that um 131 White Street is currently age restricted, meaning it's senior housing. And in order to make this into
a MBTA communities um compliant district, it would have to you would have to get rid of the age restriction because age restriction does not mean uh by right. So, we'll keep on cruising. Um the next one, as I already mentioned, is
your 40R district. Um, and because this 40R was adopted prior to 2022, and I think it was I I tried to look look back and see when it was adopted. Yes, it was. It does predate 2022. Great.
Um, yeah, because it predated um you can actually um get credit for this. So they there was a little blurb in the uh in the guidelines um that states that um you can have the 25% affordability
requirement. Um so without the 40R uh the affordability requirement um can only be up to 15% without something called an economic feasibility assessment. But with 40R you can maintain that same affordability requirement on the site. Uh Nell, I'm
just going to interrupt you for one second. I apologize. I just want to turn to the board. I dropped you all an email with a link to Nell's presentation as well. So, I I know it can be hard for us to get because here here in the meeting room, Nells, you haven't been here, but
you're all the way on a for us, you're on a back screen that's hard to see. Okay. So, I just sent the link to the presentation to the board, so they can also see it on their Chromebooks as well. Good deal. Okay, great.
Um yeah, so this one's a little bit interesting just because it is um already multif family. Um the way it's currently zoned is at 22 units per acre, which is you'll
notice above 15. It is at uh 9 acres. Um so parts of this would be compliant as it is now. you would have to strike um you know we did a first pass but you just have to make sure that this
district is is by right housing and so there is one um provision in the 40 zoning that I think you would have to strike in order to make it by right and that would be the the note about the the bedroom makeup um
so the 20% uh one bed 70% two or more um so you have to strike that because you can't you and have any limitations on on unit sizes in NBTA communities. Um, but besides that, this district is okay. I also did the math. If you wanted to
change this district up to 26 units per acre, you would also that would be one way of achieving um your capacity requirement of um 240 units. So, just two more. Um this site
is um in the southern end of Lunberg. Um it is currently zoned office and office park and industrial. And um this has 25 acres. So
if you were to do 25 acres at 15 units an acre, you get to 376 um units of capacity, which is of course over 240. I will note that there is an option where if you do a single parcel
district, you can actually say that this district shall have no more than and then input in your your capacity. But as soon as you do multiple parcels, you can't have those caps. Um it's just something that they adopted as a kind of
um a working practice especially for these smaller communities that for example want to reszone an entire farm or some kind of larger site but if you take all those acres and add them up you get potentially much higher than your capacity number. So if you pick a single
site like this, you can actually say, you know, here, you know, we we'll reszone this to 15 units per acre, but you know, maybe not the whole site or or like I said, put on a cap for the number of acres that could be redeveloped. Um, you know, obviously
there's no housing there right now. It's it's a green field. And then last option, um this is on Rogers Way, so it's also existing uh multif family. Um you'll notice that it's a rather large
site. Um and again, if you were to pick just this one site, um you could potentially have the option of saying within here you can build up to 240. And um right now there's 120. So,
those are the big ones that we looked at. Um, there are a number of ways to kind of put these together in order to reach your capacity of 240. Um, so, you know, one example would be
that 37 Youngs Road at 26 units per acre. You could take 37 Youngs Road with the current zoning of 22 units per acre and add in um another site at 15 units per acre. Um you could take either 40
Lemon Mister Shirley or 1 through9 Rogers Way and do it at 15 units per acre or 15 units per acre with a cap. These are all options that are available to you. So, we're talking about it tonight. Um, as Matt said, after this
there will be some public info design meetings. Um, I think we penciled in June 23rd kind of circling back and talking about um, selecting one of the options and then over the summer, Community Scale
will support the town in drafting the compliant zoning district. Um, and then there's going to be a number of steps that have to be taken to, like any other zoning amendment, get that ready for um, a special town meeting in November. So, with that, I can take questions. We can
bump around, look at different parts of this um, as you wish. Okay. Um, Nells, I have one or two regarding Roger's way. Did you uh I was speaking with a building commissioner earlier day earlier today and he
mentioned he thought a lot of that property might be wetland. Did you uh encounter that at all in your research? We did not. So if it if the if the state considers it to be wetland, it would have shown up. So it's a little bit hard to tell, but all
the the white shaded areas are excluded. So that means that you can't have multif family capacity on there. So it could be excluded because it's publicly owned because there's wetlands kind of like there was on um on on this white street. You know that's a wetland back there in
the wetland buffer. But there was no exclusions on on Rogers Way. Okay, good to know. Thank you. Um I think that was my immediate one. And again calling out for the board uh 131 White Street as Nell's mentioned
is age restricted and that is I believe under the control of the housing authority. So that is uh for multiple reasons probably not super I mean is it technically doable?
Yes. for it may not be likely is not practically doable for us because that what the zoning changes would require for that property and the other uh groups involved but I want to have some discussion now because and we can get
deeper later as well but we have nails available for questions so certainly if we have questions questions or any other broad light discussion. So these locations just for purposes of reference like we we're not limited to those. We can come up with other other
suggestions or from the public or from the board. Um yeah, so Nells, that that would be a good process question. Let's say we get into the weeds with the public and um there's another idea floating out there that seems doable
with baseline research from us. Can we loop back with you on that or is that not going to work with our constrained time frame? It's possible. So, I would say that the the hard part of these projects, and I
think we've done almost 10 of these at this point, um we've worked with communities big and small um on reszoning um to be MBTA community uh compliant. The the actual authoring of
the compliant zoning um is pretty straightforward. The hard part is is getting everyone on the same page. Um because um there's a lot of different ways you can you can solve this puzzle for for Lindenburg. Um you know, I mentioned
that it could be anywhere in the town. You could pick any number of of districts um or areas um to basically be upzoned. Um and so what we found um working with other communities is that
um sometimes it can be more palatable to to pick a couple, you know, one or a couple larger sites and and have that be the focus of the discussion because these are the big uh multif
family housing areas that we've were pointed to in uh in Lunenburgg. The other option if you didn't want to say like it's all going to be on this site um that that other communities have pursued is to say like this corridor. So we're going to upzone you know something
like a commercial street or a bunch of small parcels um and then have 15 units per acre across you know this this other area. And that's actually been um a little bit how do I say this? um
more difficult to to to uh reach consensus around. So it it is possible but um that I just give you my warning. They can be harder to harder to communicate. Understood. All right. Uh does that
answer your question? Yeah. Okay. Um I am I am happy personally I am happy to see that we have an option uh listed in the presentation as 37 Young's Road. Um most of us in town would refer to it as Try
Town. Um, and seeing that we have an option for compliance using only Try Town might end up being my gut says that could end up
being a good avenue for us. Um, be I mean because it's one choice, it's there being completely realistic. it is already developed enough that the odds of I mean I think the odds of broad
redevelopment on any of these like I don't I think the odds of redevelopment of Tritown would be very small. Some of these others would add more housing but then again they'd add housing of a variety we theoretically need in town.
Other thoughts or questions while we have nails? I'm just wondering if he's uh worked with or represented any of the communities there uh that have pushed back or rejected this zoning. There's there's seems to be more and more of
them. Mhm. Yeah. Sure. Um so we we've worked with communities that were hesitant. Um, so we worked with Wakefield and um, Wakefield rejected it the first time at
uh, the first time they tried to adopt adopt the new zoning at town meeting. Um, they weren't happy with the direction that um, it was taken and so we worked with um, worked with the town to pick a different district and then
that passed the the second time. And then we also worked with Ducksbury um down on the coast and they were I think waiting to see what would happen with the Milton case um at
that time and also rejected um you know the the plan as put forward. Um but now they're circling back and going to be going through um adoption as well. Um so yeah, we've we've definitely suffered um
through uh you know some some lengthy intimuous meetings, but um I I would say that for the communities that have passed it um focusing on a couple of sites that everyone can get behind um has really
been helpful. All right, thank you. And uh Glenn, I am on signed up for town council's office hours next week to ask that question of town council as well. So we'll have uh a legal opinion representing what would be
theoretically best for the town in that regard. And I I pre-wired him on that's the topic. So I believe he'll come in prepared. All right. Go ahead. uh does he have any feedback relative to the pay paper
compliance is is the model you're suggesting correct the uh typically is that how that's categorized yes uh try town tritown uh 27 Young's road would be an ex a likely example of what's called
paper compliance uh paper compliance being for those who aren't familiar with the term where you're meeting the requirements in a way that is unlikely to cause any changes for the community. Um, now nothing's a sure thing, but
where MBTA communities is just a zoning change. It isn't a mandate to build. It's a mandate. It is just a mandate on the town to create zoning that has an option of what's considered medium density housing. In Lunenburgg, we would
view it as ultra dense. It isn't in the grand scheme, but compared to what we typically have in town, it is. Um, and so you can't you can't guarantee the future, right? But you can make choices
that make it more or less likely. Uh, there are concerns out there about and I shared them for a good long time about if we don't do paper compliance, what would the impact be on things like the schools? Uh the short answer thankfully
is probably minimal. the devel housing developments of the type that they're looking for in MBTA communities. While they can have kids, you can have a have children in them. In practice, they do not tend to
developments of that density, especially in a town like Lunberg, do not tend to increase the population of children and thus the burden on the schools by any significant amount. um because people with families coming to Lunenburgg are
often further on in life and more looking at the um single family homes, not universal, but more frequently. Um I I think if you were asking my gut
opinion, I would want paper compliance right now. I see some options here that I think could be very good for further development in town, including for us to consider with more dense housing. Um, I mean, being frank on Lemonster
Shirley Road. That's potentially a real nice location with a straight shot to the Shirley train and road going into Shirley and Lemonster, hence the name. However, I look at that part of town one
is it's industrial. I hate to take industrial land and put houses on it, industrially owned land just because you could potentially pull in more tax revenue through industrial uses in the long run. But also that area could
potentially in the future be ripe for uh mixeduse development where you have more dense development, commercial and residential. that would then be close to new jobs coming in in the industrial area. Also, easy shot to the commuter
rail. That's something I look at. It's a style of development we don't have in town that could be both lifestylewise and for tax purposes very beneficial. But um my understanding and Nells please correctly correct me if I'm wrong is you
can't effectively you can't really do mixeduse development with MBTA communities or not without a significant penalty. Do I understand that correctly? You can have up to 25% of the capacity be associated with what's called a
mixeduse district. um that would allow that would require ground floor commercial. Um but then it gets a little bit more complicated where you're making multiple zones. Um so it is it is possible but you can't do it for can't
do it for all your capacity only a portion of it. Okay. So that that was roughly my I knew that 25% number. I didn't know how it played in if it was 25% total or how. Um yeah, we did that in in in Malden. Um and you know,
because they were reszoning their downtown right around um a subway station. Um and they, you know, rightly wanted to have commercial on the ground floor right around, you know, right in their downtown. And so, you know, figuring out which which blocks are
going to be part of the next use, which blocks are going to be just multif family byite. It was it was a pretty arduous uh process. Okay, that's good to know. Um, like I said, my gut says for the long I don't have a study to back this up, but my gut says for the long-term
development looking in the looking forward in the town, mixed use on Lemonster Shirley could be a real benefit because then we'd have businesses that would benefit from well from the traffic on Lemonster Shirley Road both existing and what could come
in from those businesses because we pull be pulling directly from multiple towns. um in a pretty easy commute to get them into Lunberg to spend their dollars and then also having maybe some of that uh
being a mixeduse development then having apartments or something that would be above or intermix with however they want to do it the commercial would then give um housing
that's probably on the more affordable side I hate to use the word affordable because affordable housing is a discreet thing in Massachusetts, right? So, not affordable housing, but housing that is affordable. Um, but having more of housing that is
affordable would be useful. It would potentially give for some of our younger residents who kind of maybe they go right into the workforce potentially in the industrial area or they're going off to college, come back, maybe they're
commuting into Boston, then we h kind of have a section of town there that could appeal to them potentially housing at a lower price point, walkable to some amenities. It's a lifestyle that we don't offer right now in Lunenburgg. And that's a place we could maybe put it
that would um in my vision would not significantly impact the rural character of the town. But that I mean you're listening to one man's thoughts and the point is in the end we want it to be community thoughts.
Is there any feedback from the our consultant here on the fact that this is a mandate from the state for us to zone change the zoning to allow for the 240 units familyfriendly units meaning more
than you know onebedroom several bedroom units. um the paper compliance. Does he have any guidance or feedback from the state on the communities that have adopted the paper compliance because that seems to be illogical. If they're
if they're mandating this on a communities like Lunberg, why would it be okay that we essentially skirt the law? Like does he see any you know what I guess my question would be what next? And and to be clear as previous meetings
I do not support this this law. I think it's an intrusion on the local uh communities authority over zoning. Just the the court has made it clear the state has the authority, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I have to like it. But I do I do appreciate the fact they have the authority and that we have to
deal with this. But I'm wondering, you know, with them having that wellestablished authority, are we basically putting our nose to them with this paper compliance? Yeah. So Nells, that goes to that goes to you. Um, and I would also add, do we
feel if we went with that Young's Road, as well we'll call it Tritown in town, um, but that Young's Road location, if we went that way, are we one potentially looking at future issues with the state? And two, I
guess my question would be, I don't know if you could answer this. My gut said, I mean, the 26 per units per acre is pretty dense. My gut says that would still remain paper compliance, but do you if you have an opinion, and I don't
know that you do, would that potentially put us at risk for Tritown being redeveloped in Mass? Yeah. U maybe like I'll take that question first. Um, I don't know if anyone on the board was on the board
when that was getting permitted, but well, something that stuck out to me is that they had eligible compliance up to um I think it it said on the says in the zoning, you know, not more than 204
dwelling units. Um, but they only built 131. Um, okay. So, they they already left 70 on the table. Does anyone remember why that might have been? I'm sorry, I didn't I couldn't hear that question.
So, when Tritown Tritown zoning currently allows 204 um 204 units, but they only built 131. Does anyone remember why they didn't build as many as they could, as
many as they were allowed to? um our one member of the board who was on the board when Tritown was conceived is not here this evening. So I I don't think unless someone in the room happens to have knowledge about Tritown and wants to share. I didn't think so. But I wanted
to reach out for that. So I don't have a good answer for you there. I don't know what the impetus was. That's something I can get very easily tomorrow but I don't have it tonight. Okay. Yeah. I I just I for me the fact that they're not they weren't
maximizing what they could have built um under the under the current zoning makes me feel like it would potentially be unlikely if they were given even more capacity that they would they would take it. Um but who knows um things could
change. Um so I guess in that way you know there would be more capacity whether whether they use it or not would be left you know for for some time in the future regarding how the state is feeling about
paper compliance. Um I think there's a there's a couple things going on. One is that they really like the communities that have added real capacity and they are making a number of grants available to help build
infrastructure to support um housing units that are in in compliant districts that are actually adding capacity. So those those towns are getting gold stars and and funding uh to support that. Um on the other hand with the the more
paper compliance um I think it's happened a little bit more than they expected. A lot of communities have taken taken that route. Um in some places where we worked especially right around existing uh
transit stations where the the housing was required to go. some level of paper compliance was almost inevitable because they had already built a lot of housing right around their train station. And so if you're going to make a multif family district around the train station,
that's going to include some multif family which they've already built. And so the way that I've been communicating it to communities that we work with is, you know, in some places you've already done the hard work. And so, you know,
you might call it paper compliance, but it could also be considered getting credit for what you've done in the past. Um, so yeah, there's definitely there's benefits um even financial benefits for for adding real
capacity. Um, but yeah, there's there's two sides to it. All right, there we go. Any other questions for Nells this evening? Seeing none, I am going to turn to the public and just ask if you have
any questions for us or for our uh for our contractor tonight. I see none. I see no hands in Zoom, but I All right. In that case, if we're all set, I'll let we can let Nails go and get on to the rest of our meeting.
Okay. It was great. So, I'll um look forward to seeing you next time and and going over more of these options in detail. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that, Niles? I'll see you next time. Okay. And I'll be I may be in contact with a few questions going forward. Thank you so
much for your help. You're very welcome. Take care. I am going to say that makes me feel that reframing makes me feel better. The paper compliance is another way of saying you've already done the work. Get
credit and knowing that Tritown's already zoned real close to what the max would be regardless. And that I mean that tells me it's likely a demand issue. So, we'll see. But I I feel better about paper compliance even when
it's thought of that way. Go ahead. Yeah. I just wonder what's next. Um I I hear rumblings the state might be looking at minimum lot sizes. So um we'll find out. All right. So that is
um zoning options for MBTA communities act. Next up we have public hearings. Um we have three scheduled tonight. 63 Lancaster A scenic road alteration, 1083 Northfield Road, special permit for common driveway storm
water manage and a storm water management permit and 100 Towns and Harbor Road for storm water management permit. Um now 1083 Northfield Road for the common driveway and storm water has
requested a continuence. So, um, we're going to look at best practice in a moment. And if we're going to I think we're most likely just not even going to open it since they've asked for the continuence and we'll readvertise because we're missing a board member and I don't want to accidentally trigger Mullen rule or
something. I I don't know the exact details there. I play a little more cautious. But again, if you tuned in at home for 1083 Northfield Road, uh they have requested a continuence. We will not be seeing them tonight. But let's uh
hit them in order. 63 Lancaster A Scenic Road alteration. Okay. Okay. The Lunberg Planning B board will hold a joint public hearing with the tree warden on May 12th, 2025 at 6:05 p.m. Town Hall 17 Main Street,
Lunenberg, Mass, to hear and review an application for scenic road alteration pursuant to MGL chapter 4015C by Dave Clappam on behalf of UNITL for removal of a large dying sugar maple
tree, including stump grinding and replanting with a new tree, sugar maple tree near Unitol Pole 8. Subject property information. The location is 63 Lancaster Avenue. Assessor's map 71, parcel number 22. Owner is Robert
Gibbons, 63 Lancaster Avenue, Lunenberg, Mass. Uh, you can view materials online at lunbergmma.al.opengv.com/arch with record ID PBSr--25-1 via an email request to the planning office planning.gov gov or in person at the
planning office at 960 Mass Avenue. Great. Thank you. I'll have you start in one second. What I do want to double check is um Bill, you're here. You're our tree warden. Is there a um is there a specific format we should
be following tonight for this that you're aware of or just what we usually do for scenic roads? I would just use your regular format. My hearing is awful tonight. I it's not you. Oh yeah, you got to be in the microphone anyway. I realize. So, Bill
Bernard, Tree Warden. I would use your regular format. Okay. Y great. Wonderful. Um, thank you. And please introduce yourself and take it away. I'm Dave Clapp. I'm the Unil Forestry Supervisor for the Fitsburg district and
I'm looking to remove one tree uh along the scenic route. Okay. Let's hear about the tree. It's uh it's got some history. Um 2019 went through the public hearing
to try and remove the the same tree. Um the select board was on board with it. The planning board was not. Um so we did not remove the tree. And then since then it's decayed even more and it's caused at least one maybe two more more
outages over the time. It keeps dropping huge limbs um both on the lines and and onto the the land that it's co it kind of sits on the property boundary of 63 and the um the outline of the
um scenic road. So, okay. Gonna look into our files to see what we have quick. Um, and we do have photographs available. Um, so, Bill, do you have
thoughts on this or info you want to share? Sure. I looked at the tree today and um like Dave explained it, it's in tough shape. It there was a pile of logs sitting there from branches that had
fallen recently. So, um if it was up to me, I would take it down. I I would I believe it's a hazardous tree. All right. Thank you. Um I while we take a moment, we can take
a moment to um review the plans and everything as well. But it looks like we have members of the public who would also like to speak. So let's hear some thoughts and so when you come up um just share your name and address and tell us what you want us to hear. I'm very pleased the planning board, Robert
Gibbons. I'm the owner at 63 Lancaster. Thank you for your assistance so far. Thank you for your input. Uh, we've only been at the property for about two or three years. That was my toddler that was in here earlier and stuff. The pile of wood that you saw was something I just organized the other day. I wasn't sure if it needed to stay there as I
guess evidence of what's been going on. We have seen major limbs fall every snow season, more particularly as it kind of just builds up from uh the dump that takes place every winter. And it does look like there's dead wood up in the canopy. there is um cavities that just look I mean this is more your expertise
but it definitely um has caused concern for us. Uh we don't we're not playing by the front of the road because just we have the toddler and stuff but we have a ton of neighbors and stuff that use that sidewalk there and neighbors that have lived here June and Al live across the street 50 years have always been concerned that it's going to land on one
of these days. So, I think just more than anything that we share is that there is a present danger of the public. And for what it's worth, I practice as a Social Security disability attorney, and you might not think these things happen, but it happens more than I'd like to see. So, um, you know, again, for whatever that's worth, I I do think that
it would be in the best interest of all. We think it's beautiful. Obviously, we love the drive. We wish people would slow down a little more to enjoy the drive, but that's for another day. Um, but if you guys would, we would really appreciate it, but of course, we'll uh, you know, take your opinion on it. But, thank you. Great. Good. Thank you very
Yep. Um, so I'm gonna I I know I have a few questions, but um actually I I do have a procedural one. Do we don't we uh
require plans for a scenic road tree removal? Not to my knowledge. Um the existing uh specifications for the scenic road process are largely in the bylaw. It's it's quite sparse actually. Okay. I I I
thought we had I mean we're here now so I'm not going to stress this. Um I thought it might be our it might not be in the bylaw. It might be in our whatever you call our practices document that the rules and
regs. The rules. Yeah. the rules and regs for the board that because I I know that in the past for tree removals, we've required a plot with all the trees marked off that are being that are there for the removal. In this case, we're
talking about one tree in obvious location, right? I'm not personally as worried. I can't speak for the rest of the board, but um this is more of a thought and concern going forward to make sure um so I have a couple treeish questions,
but I'll turn to the board as well. I speak an awful lot. Um most of it as as far as I can see, it seems pretty straightforward. Um, I don't have any, as of this point, I don't have any objections. Okay. Um,
I I have one potential concern with the characterization of the tree and I'm very open to being uh educated differently on this. Um, for is it a sugar maple? Yes. Okay. Um because to
my now I am not an arborist. I am a big sugar maple fan. Um I tap my own trees. Um sugar maples can be dang hollow and shedding limb. I mean so sugar maples do
rot out inside. If you've driven by my house and see the big sugar maples, at least one of them's that is hollow inside. Um, it's a it's the nature of that tree. They also shed limbs. I mean, they shed their old limbs a whole bunch,
too. So, I guess my question would be knowing this is a tree that when the inside appears rotten and when dropping large limbs can still be a very healthy tree, not at risk of
falling. What makes this one different? So, I understand what you're saying. You can have a tree that's biolog biologically healthy as as far as green leaves mostly um upper canopy intact
um but structurally unzound which is the rot and um a bunch of limbs dying off and breaking down. Uh what's happening is this tree is kind of on its end of its life. So it's in what's called
retention. It's when it brings all of its growth more to its center and tries to cap uh save the the inner of the of the branches and sheds off the outside branches. Um which is fine if it's in a
wood setting, wooded setting or out in a field where you have a walkway, the sidewalk rather, and it's the center of town. It kind of opens you up more for um
uh likelihood of impact as far as cars we're driving down the road, the lines that we can't move, um people walking by. So, if that makes any sense. All right.
Um Okay. Other questions from the board? Thoughts? I have thoughts, no questions. But I I see I'm a big tree person, right? I cry when I have to cut a tree down. So, I'm that person. But when you look at the picture that was sent in, half of the
limbs up top have no new growth on them. And so, that actually made me really sad to hear that it tries to go in and get a little emotional. But looking at the trunk itself, there's kind of like a large hole right at the bottom. So, like they hollow out, right? That makes
sense. But the way it's leaning, it's kind of like on this the tiniest little incline, like maybe a foot high, and I worry that if the rot or the the emptiness right there continues, it's going to be unstable and it's already
leaning towards the road, and you're right, there is cars going by. There's the power lines. Absolutely. But there's also a sidewalk. And so I've had I have some old trees on my property and the limbs fall down and they're in the middle of the street in the storm and it's terrifying and it's super loud and
I can't imagine if somebody's walking by and gets hit by a limb. So I don't understand why it was turned down to be cut down. I don't think I was on the board the first time it came 2019. That was before I lived in I wasn't on the board then either. And 6 years can be a
a big difference in tree life. Yeah. I just see, you know, I see it on my own property and my trees are a lot smaller than this and they still cause quite a lot of damage. Um, so I I definitely in favor of taking it down. It's being replaced by the same caliber of tree. Of course, it's going to take a long time
for it to grow to that size. That sucks about trees, but nothing you can do about that. Oh, I was going to ask about that. I missed that. It is being Yeah, there will be a replacement. Oh, that makes me I I was hope I was worried I was going to have to push for
that because that's something I'm real passionate about because if we don't replace trees in the right of way Mhm. on scenic roads, they'll just eventually no longer be scenic as one by one they're paired down. Yeah. And it's a
sugar maple that's being replaced. Okay. I missed that. One for one. Um All right. Yeah. I I wish I had driven out to see the tree, but I made that mistake today. So, great. Um, and Bill, you said that you're also in
agreement about the nature of the tree. Yes, I am. Okay. Um, all right, then I would uh Great. That said, um, we would have to Oh, any other public comment? I I
kind of informally said that, but let me be more overt. Any other public comment in the room or out in the internet world? Seeing none, again, if you're online, just raise your hand if you want
to speak. We're easygoing. Um, we would have to close the hearing and then after closing the hearing, we would have to hold a vote for uh to approve the
removal of the tree on Scenic Road uh to be replaced with a a similar as appropriate tree. Um, so does that sound good to everyone? Yeah. Great.
Okay. I would look for a motion to close the public hearing. So moved. Second. Moved and seconded. All in favor? I I public hearing is closed.
Um, do I would look for potentially a motion to approve the removal of the tree as designated in the public hearing to be replaced in the public right of in the scenic road right ofway with a tree
as similar as a as able and appropriate. So moved. Second. Moved and seconded. Any further comments or discussion? All in favor? I I I. All right. There we go. Thank you for your time. Yeah. Thank Oh, do you happen to
have a card, by the way? I can get one. I'll run to the truck and grab one. I'm sorry. I'll run to my vehicle and grab one. Oh, great. I have a um I would love if we could approve comm here. Uh public hearing's done. This has been decided for those who are here for this. It's
not rude to get up and leave if you're happy with the business. if you don't have other business. Um I would love to uh create a better line of communication between us and Unatil because I feel that there's been tree work done on some
of our scenic roads that had and the plane board hasn't heard about it ahead of time and um we have it for the tree removal but there's been some more edge cases. I'd love it if we could chat at some point and make sure we're on the same page with that.
Sure. Great. Thanks. So, if you don't mind bringing the card up later, I'd appreciate it. No problem. Thank you so much. Thank you. Wonderful. Great, Bill. Thank you so much. You're welcome. And I'd like to attend that meeting with you have with Dave so we're all on the same page. Great. Okay, that would be one. I think that'd be super. Thank you. All
right. Thank you. Great. You're welcome. Oh, man. Hate to approve the cutting of a sugar that that that's my sugar maples are my tree. That's my soul right there. But um I mean if you guys need silence
or something probably I seriously could cry listening about the tree, right? I can't I can't. Um okay, so um Logan, you and I talked about the potential of opening 1083 and then just
moving to close it so that we would not have to Well, you know what? Again, no one's here for 1083. Let's have this discussion on best practice afterward. Sure. Because instead we can move right in for 100 Townson Harbor Road.
Like we've got people who are here for active business. Let's take care of it. Uh, the Lunberg Planning Board will hold a public hearing on May 12th, 2025 at 6:05 p.m. Town Hall 17 Main Street, Lunberg, Mass to hear and review an
application for storm water management permit pursuant to 204-1D of the code of the town of Lunenburgg by Steven R. Stafford and Peter M. Stafford for development of single family homes on each of five lots previously created through the approval
not required ANR process. Subject property information. The location is 100 Towns and Harbor Road. Assessor's map 49 parcel numbers 74 lots 1 2 3 4 and 5. Owner is Steven R. Stafford at
100 Towns in Harbor Road, Lunenberg, Mass. You can view materials online at lunenbergmma.portal.opengv.com/arch with record ID PBSW-25-2 via email request to the planning office planning at lunenbergmma.gov or in person at the
planning office at 960 Mass Avenue in Lunberg, Mass. Great. Thank you. From positioning, I didn't know if the audience wanted to see Um, there's gonna be a Okay, I would, you know, we the
microphone. Yeah. So, what I do need you at the microphone just so people so it's recorded and so people at home can hear you as well. Um, then actually I can just Logan, could we uh could we screen share some version
of that plan? Yes. that. So, what'll happen is you can have that pointed to us. I just wanted Okay. But well, if everything you're showing us is included Yeah. in the files we already have, right? So, Logan can call them up on the screen. Perfect. Our friends in the
audience can see them and uh our friends at home can see them as well. Okay. My name is Mika Lassa. I'm from Topper Land Survey. here on behalf of the applicant and one change the applicant is now the owner of the property that had the purchase had gone through as you know
this was before your board um highlighted in red is the the overall property was 9.15 acres um an ANR was presented last fall approved by this board and it subsequently was recorded at the registry of deeds um and then
this property was in 61A it went before the town for first right refusal for ownership. Um that was declined. So now we've moved forward with the actual development of the lots. Uh so what we have here
is 9.1 acres. There's an area of wetland to the south. We can't even give you bearings. The locust map here, Massav, uh Townsen Hub Road on the way to Hickory Hills. So this is on Townson Harbor Road on the easterly side of it
as you're heading towards Hickory Hills. Logistically, there's an open field approximately 4.2 acres of cleared field that's been used for a hay field for for a long time. Um, and the rest of
it is the perimeter is primarily wooded with with stone walls around the perimeter. There's breaks along the stone wall along Towns and Harbor Road. Uh there's 1.23 acres of wetland area and then subsequent the 30 foot no touch
zone. The 50 foot no build zone ends up putting another 2 and 1/2 acres basically of restricted area on the property. So that's kind of the overview. That's the kind of just flip over. This is
our the same orientation, same perimeter, but this has now been overlaid with um the boulder lines are the soil classifications, you know, the class A, class B, class C soils. Um we've added topography to it
and the blue areas are the drainage areas that we've divided the property into based on the topography. There's a high null in the center of the property and it basically goes um four directions. We have an area that goes to the north, an area that goes to the south towards the wetlands. There's an
area that goes towards the street towards an existing catch basin. And then there's an area that goes to the abuing property north and ultimately goes to an existing catch basin in the street. Another portion of the drainage area that we've excluded because it's
primarily within buffer zone. 100 foot buffer zone, 50 foot, no structure, 30 foot disturbances at the back. There about 2 and 1/2 acres in the back. It's basically separated by a stone wall. Um, soil testing has been done on the property for five for the five lots.
The areas are identified with these little little circles here, here, here, and here. And that's really what drove the lot orientation. Um we had two a reduced frontage lot one standard
frontage lots two and three another reduced lot four and then a full frontage lot five. So the lot frontages um basically cut around where we could place the on-site septic systems which to my understanding have been approved
from the showa. We had submitted septic plans to them subsequent one or concurrently with this submitt. Um towns and hub road has town water. So these are going to be proposed connections to town
water. See the storm water management plan that we have before us. the existing field, the sea soils, the high there's um a high water table ranging from the wetland area is
basically at the surface to the high point where about 2 and 1/2 ft at the at at the top, but basically the average throughout the site is 2 ft or less to groundwater. So what we ended up having is elevated um sewage disposal systems
for the groundwater setback and as a result we elevated houses and we're proposing tribe under homes for each of those take advantage of the grading to just condense the development. Um we've proposed primarily to working
within the existing field with minimal um clearing one of the lots lot one to to have the driveway within the frontage where we're carving in an area there but pretty much we're able to work
with within the existing cleared areas. Now on site again like I said we are at individually there's five lots here individually each lot only has about a half an acre of disturbance on it but
combined total is 2.4 acres so it's a common plan we're triggered into the storm water permit because we're more than an acre. the development of the lots four and five. Lot four we're able to keep
outside the 100 buffer. Um our wetland consultant Matt Morrow had done a wetland delineation last summer and this was one of the lots like this doesn't need to be filed but this one he was recommending we do a request for determination because we're able to keep actually the disturbance the closest is
our footing drain which is going to be 75 ft to the wetland. So what we've done with our development, it's technically not a low impact development, but we've been able to cluster the the project within the existing clearing of the
field and how we've addressed our storm water. I'll kind of flip flip back and you kind of see the difference with our drainage area approach. We had four drainage areas. One north, one
south, one towards the street and then northwestern. What we've done is reduced this drainage area that's coming out the street towards the catch basin and kind of diverted it based on where the septic systems they we basically end up creating a dam along the front. We've
directed the water to run out to the to the wetland areas in the back. So here what we've done, we've reduced the drainage area to the north. We've reduced the drainage area to the to the
other property of the north and we've dramatically reduced what's coming right out to Towns and Harbor Road. What with the what we're proposing is country drainage directing the grading. The septic system pretty much directed the flow because we have a
large fill areas and we just redirected with the driveway the runoff towards the wetland. So it's going to be sheet flow country drainage. Each of the driveways we're posing on a high point at the property line and we've graded the driveway such
that runoff like particular on this lot does not come out to the street. It goes internal to the site cross country through the through the trees across the lawn areas. Likewise, that same approach has been utilized.
Oh, sorry. Yeah, I'm so sorry. No, thank you. Please don't be Yep. I could hear the the ringing in my ear. Um, so what we've done with all of our roof drains, our footing drains, we've directed them in a manner away from the
street internal into the site. Because of the water table, we've elevated all the foundations drive under basically slab on grade and the foundation of the house is going to act as retaining wall on the front side and we're going to be filling around them. The applicants are in the earth moving business, earth
removal business. They have it's that was my question to them was do you want me to go up with material or spread it out? How would you like these logical? I go this is naturally inclined for
driveunders filled systems like you see throughout town the the the helicopter pad. But here by elevating these up you can blend the house and make it looks look like it part of the landscape versus just kind of with a repair you usually end up having the eyesore of the
helicopter landing pad. So on the what we've done with the homes again the roof um roof leaders I've depicted directing into the various drainage areas away from the street. We've done
um drainage calcs for the pre and post development and there's reductions obviously because we're reducing the areas going to the street. The area that's has a slight has a slight increase is towards the back towards the wetlands towards the larger wetland
system which ultimately flows into this ultimately to the street system um south. the approach that I know that a typical uh in Lunenburgg with your
bylaws um first is LI is the is the requirement um while not meeting the strict definitions of LI um it's still keeping in the spirit of LI in the sense that we're using utilizing reduced frontage lots we're working existing
cleared areas and we're kind of condensing development and with LI typically Especially with storm water with the credits is um the stormwater handbook has credits 1, two, and three. One is um
no compliance. I mean you restrict your property 25%. Here just the natural lay of the land where the wetlands are we already restricted at 27%. So it's it's we don't have a deed restriction on
it per se, but the wetlands are creating the restriction on the property already. Um a lot of places you you probably used to seeing people place infiltrators in the ground to catch put in a drywall, but in this instance here um those all
those devices there's a depth to them. Rain gardens there's a depth to them for treatment 2 feet. Here our water table is at 2 feet or less. Infiltration structures per DP are not to be placed in fill. So the only
way we we're going to be violating that principle. The septic systems is a different animal in that that's a low flow situation. We're used to that. You you put it up and fill you just your kitchen sink, your toilet flushes, your shower. But storm water is a different
animal. and uh just the intensity and the volumes when you place fill you're more likely to have issues blowouts like we've seen in other places in the country even in Lemonster when you have confined storm water into a underground area that can't contain it becomes issue
but the handbook specifically states to never place infiltration structures within fill and in C/D soils which we have on the property And then what we've what we've generated
on this plan as well um we depict for each of the driveways as a construction entrance. Um we propose erosion control measures at the edge of each of the developments where there's grading that could potentially impact sediment and
silt out into the wetlands or out into the street. We've also because it's 2.4 acres. It's technically nippies because it's greater than an acre. So, we've formulated our plan notes accordingly, our details, best
practices along that line. Okay. So, I'll leave it at that if there's any questions. Okay. Um, few logistical ones uh just process-wise and everything first. Um, now we do not yet have a peer review on
this, correct? No. Okay. Um, so let's um is the this is a uh this is a storm water. I know frequently the board would like
to see peer review on a storm water. Um I I certainly would on this just to make sure I understand everything and that we have a professional look double-checking everything for the town. Um, so we'll want to talk about that.
Um, otherwise I'm I'm processing everything still cuz I understand everything you said and um I get the I mean the use of country drainage makes double sense with that high water table. Um, we'll get into some we'll have public comment in a
moment and we have an email to read in as well, but um I know there's some concerns about water um flowing onto other properties. So um you may already be aware of those concerns from abutters, but I'm sure that's something
you're going to want to address as well. um being realistic where the board it looks like is very like I'm getting the nods that looks like we're going to want peer review. Um so that we won't be able
to wrap this tonight. Okay. Um okay. Um do we have comments or questions from the board first or do we want to go into public comment? You got your thinking face on, Tim? I It's just a question here. Um, lot five.
I'm not sure what our normal I don't remember exactly where the work is actually going into the 100 foot buffer zone. Is that something that we normally have an issue with? Like is I think is Kong the one who addresses that? So, I
ap So, the town um currently does not have a planner. We're we're getting some interim help in. Okay. But, uh because of that, we're going to play a little you're going to catch us playing a little bit more cautious baseball than
we might normally because we want to make sure that we're dotting our eyes and crossing our tees. Um so, so here we are. Your bylaws have a 30 foot no touch, no disturb. Yep.
Which we're respecting. And then there's a 50 foot no structure. So here, this is the 30 foot no touch. And then this is the 50ft no structure. Our closest point actually is
here. We're showing erosion control along there. So this is sheet flow. the the theory with the with D typically if you are 50 ft or more from a resource area you can usually go an abbreviated notice of intent and full-blown notice
of intent if you're within that 50 ft corridor. Here we're 75 ft which is why we our our wetland consultant recommended we just go for an RFD or an abbreviated notice of intent for that. So, this would be probably the only lot
that goes before the conservation commission. And what we have here is basically after all the disturbance on the lot, you're going to have 75 ft of vegetation, grass, trees, cuz we're respecting the existing tree line, which is in I've shaded in brown here. And it
that tree line pretty much almost follows on this particular lot the 30 foot no touch. So, it's a good line of demarcation for site work. All right. Great. Thank you. Anything else from the
board? Um, we do have uh public here and I'm guessing there's some public comment. So, what I'd like to do is welcome some public comment. Um, great. So, please come on up, share
with us your name and address, and uh happily state your piece. Thank you, Mr. Chair uh Ralph Swick. Um my wife Janine and I uh own and reside at 113 Towns and Harbor Road. So directly across from what's indicated as lots two and three
uh on the diagram. Uh I wanted to uh reassure myself that uh you were aware of the local terrain issues right there on the eastern side of Townsen Harbor Road. Um I have some photographs if they would help you. Um if Yeah. Yeah. I
exactly um if the technology allows I might even be able to screen share them, but um it's up to you. I have I have paper copies and um paper paper copies would be great and then be and then if you could also send along it'd be easier
if you sent along the digital to you. Correct. Okay. So for viewing tonight by the board, paper copies would be great. It would be really helpful if you could then send those files to Logan Oonnell, our administrative assistant, because
anything we review here has to go into the public record. Absolutely. Happy uh happy to do that. So, no problem. Mr. Chair, thank you. It's uh it's a double-sided page, so just one one piece of paper each.
I'm going to grab you one as well, Logan. So, you have it handy. Yeah, I save paper, but unfortunately not printer ink. There you go. Okay. So, so first I'll ask you to look at the side with just the one photograph. Um, this is uh from my
driveway looking across towns and Harbor Road uh into where I believe the map shows that the new driveway for lot 3 is is proposed. And what I wanted to assure myself of was that you were aware of the of the bank uh the uh that's on the
eastern side of towns and Harbor Road there. and um and and uh what I wanted to uh uh you to be aware of. And on the opposite side are are photographs of uh of that um you know that area of the
bank on the east side of of Towns and Herbert Road. Um uh the uh in the lower picture, the uh the road sign, the speed limit sign is is just to uh just to the right of of my driveway on the on the
other side. So, my uh my uh issue that I wanted to make sure you were aware of is when that driveway is cut into that bank. Mhm. That the flow off of that that null there where the trees are. I you know, I'm concerned that that flow
uh will infiltrate Towns and Harbor Road. Um currently it doesn't there. I'm not aware that there's been an issue before. There's a I understand there's a catch basin down down down further south, but uh there has not been storm water flow onto towns on Hard Harbor
Aubber Road, but when that bank is cut, um I'm concerned that there there might be. So, since the applicant is here for a waiver of uh storm management bylaw uh uh properties, I wanted to make sure you were aware of our concern that uh that
cutting that bank down for the driveway may may change the floor there. Thank you. Now, the applicant is not here for a waiver. They're here the storm water permit. Mhm. So, what that means, but the request for the permit includes a waiver of certain Okay. Okay. Great. No,
we're on the same page. Super. Okay. Um, well, let's do twofold. Um, I can tell you that as part of our peer review, that's some of the things that will be looked at. Uh, peer review being when
the And, uh, I see Mike online. I do see your hand up as well. We will get to you. Um we will so what the applica I say the town will hire but the applicant pays the engineer the town uses to make sure
that everything they're claiming that that engineer agrees with and if the engineer feels there's something that would be more protective to the town and its residents, they'll bring that up. Um, but we do have a member of the
public here with some concern about water uh now moving on to the road post development. I'm betting you could talk about what's being done explicitly to mitigate that. Correct. And so I'll ask you to then come to the microphone again
so they can hear you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Swick. Thank you. Please. Yeah, as I was saying, u the pre-development area, I just kind of give some numbers. It's one and almost 1.6 acres
draining currently towards towards Towns and Harbor. We've reduced that by half. So, we we've the way the drainage area is graded right now, existing, it's coming out to the street, the tributary area, we've
reduced, we've cut it in half. We've cut that entire portion out and redirect it back into the site. Okay. Um, now are you doing anything to keep the uh runoff off the driveway? I I I know it could be different in this
circumstance because you can't go down like you might normally see, but here here we proposing high points at the driveway right at the property line. So there's a the only portion of the driveway that's draining into the street is from the right of way out to the paint. Okay. So we've done a little
little little got it high spot there knowing water tables high any earth removal anything we cut is going to be problematic. So again and that was the other reason why we wanted to direct the roof gutters. Most of the footing drains
are directed away respecting where the septic systems are going to be located obviously. Okay, great. And we'll have and again we'll have peer review as well. So we have to make sure do not let me forget to have us vote on that tonight so the applicant can move
forward in a timely manner. Um all right and uh we have Mike online with uh his hand up. Mike, you can go ahead and uh share with us your full name, your address, and uh share your
piece. Hi everyone, I'm Mike Rash. Um 74 Towns and Harbor Road. Um I'm just south of this field. Um I just want to address that I know myself and and the neighbors behind me um as we speak, we have
standing water in our basements. um just the it's the static groundwater. Um it's it's risen. Uh I believe it's due to um the building that went in on 2-way uh Danny Proctor's building. Um,
so I really just want to wanna um just get this on record that it's the static water levels already risen and um kind of, you know, just I'm not worried about the surface water runoff, but I'm I'm worried about the the static
groundwater level rising even more. Um, and to just uh like just kind of see, you know, what what what kind of plans they have to keep the actual groundwater from rising up because as I said, myself and my neighbors all have standing water in our
basement as we speak. All right. Uh, thank you. And, um, I didn't catch the direction from the property, but you were gesturing, so it looks like Okay, it is he he's here. Okay. So his property, you got to speak
at the microphone. I know. Perfect. Do that. Mr. Rash's property has there's a large wetland system um even on his property and there's a larger wetland system there. So the the design that
we've done here is the typical again I said country drainage. Mhm. When you do storm water, when you do a storm water detention basin, if you do infiltration structures, you are confining flow into a particular area. Here we are trying to disperse the water
as it currently does. Right now, the proposed imperous coverage for this entire lot post development is 6%. So, it's it's not a lot. Okay, good. from from from a perspective of development and we're trying to respect you know the surface water
directions you know obviously this area I was concerned with having that null and and yeah there is there's a the speed limit sign here and it's just at the crest of the hill and that's kind of how we kind of wanted to tuck that driveway in to minimize the cut cut and
fill and obviously for for first for for sight distance coming out of that driveway. Okay. And so you you're not notably changing the flow or are you notably changing the flow in the direction to uh
to the south? We we are directing internally. We're elongating the flow paths across the lawn areas. We're red by having these elevated septic systems. It forces the water instead of coming
this way. It elongates it and it encourages more infiltration. Now, I can't model that. No. Specifically, and again, with the water table being what it is, I'm really limited in what devices
and what approaches that we can do. So, again, it's it's pretty much controlling how we did our grading and where how we're directing, if that makes sense. No, it does. All right. Thank you. Um looking for other
public comment. Good evening. My name is Dave Stafford. Uh I own the property at 100 Towns and Harbor, which is directly across from the lot for driveway. Um I commend you on what you're trying to do here. Uh, I have
some concerns having gone over all of the information. I'm still trying to assimilate myself. Mhm. Um, this analysis point three, which was a catch basin that the town put in 20 years ago.
Do you have any recollection? 20 years ago. Ever since that went in, my lot has gotten wet and stayed wet into the spring. Uh, I grew up at the lot that's now the uh, actually that's
outdated. 89 towns in Harvard grew up there. So, this parcel was always a garden. Um, this opens up. This is a very narrow area of frontage. It opens up into a much larger parcel at 16 acres. um that also bears all the runoff from
this wetland through a system that goes under the through Mike Rash's yard under the road in a culvert down the 89 towns and harbor uh hill and then into my parcel. It's a significant size wetland back there.
Ultimately, the water that goes there feeds into Hickory Hills Lake. I have a couple concerns because even though I see what you're doing here about trying to keep water on the property, in my review so far of the
plans, um I don't see noticeable contour line changes that shows water flow that's going to go this way. Specifically, when I look at the lot for plan, I don't really see changes here. I'm concerned if you're already channeling all the water to this I don't
know what you call it. your the driveway going out to lot four, right? But basically, this is a low spot here that leads over to the wetland. Mhm. Um which we're respecting, which would which will channel the water, which is what we're
we directing the water this way. Exactly. Um but my concern about concentrating it here even more is that more will come my way. That's my first concern and I'm happy to have conversations with you to you can explain to me why that may not be the
case. Um my other concern is one of the one of the um waiverss you're applying for is uh not uh not having to adhere to the 90% total dissolved solids. Is that what it
is? And the 60% phosphorus. Yes. So does that mean you don't have to make an effort toward that end? Th those uh this is where the country drainage versus structural non-structural to get to those numbers that they have in DP's
I'll call it cookbook. Mhm. You have to meet certain design parameters. You need to have this much depth of groundwater. You need to have this long. You need to have the shape and feel in the soil conditions I have here. I cannot satisfy that. So then I can't quantify it
directly. The the biggest thing with storm water is the reduction of imperous areas. That's pretty much what they quantify your water quality values with. And the trigger point is 15%. That's kind of like the the barometer that they use. So when when you keep a
property confined, the less impervious, that's the fastest conduit for the for the pollutants. when you direct storm water across lawns through the wooded areas and even let's say people do um rain gardens what you're imitating or you're mimicking what the natural
environment does. So that that that was the approach on this property to direct as much as I can to meander through the property versus just flowing out into the street. If that makes sense. It makes sense.
Does that mean it'll puddle more often on our in here? Yeah. Yeah. Slowly. Yeah. And and the idea of puddling, you're encouraging recharge, encouraging that nutrient uptake. So this is this is the reason those
waiverss are being asked for is because to hit let's say the standard to hit 90% I would have to put a deep sump catch basin with a sediment for bay with an infiltration basin. All of which the bottoms need to be 2 ft above water. And
because I'm so flat, I can't put a deep s I can't get a deep sump catch basin to work. Rain gardens typically are this deep from the bottom for the media, the filtration media, and the bottom needs to be 2 ft from water table. So the the
puzzle pieces do not fit. I can't store water in water. So that's that's the premise if that makes sense. No, it makes sense. But but I I I understand your concern, which is why I didn't want to dramatically change the flow path if you the blue
outlines of like the drainage area. So like out to the street. Would you be able to approach the microphone a bit closer? Sorry. So what what like I don't know how well you could see these this is this is the area
going north. This is the area going to the Ducet property towards your home and Mr. Mr. Swixs is this acre and a half and then the remainder going into the wetland system which meanders to the back and
ultimately comes out towards Towns and Harbor. So when you see the shapes that we've done with the grading, I've reduced reduced what's the area this upper quadrant is now encouraged to go out there instead of just flowing out
into the street. So So and that's what wasn't obvious to me in looking at the contour lines because I see the arrows flow still sort of the same and and the the numbers on the contour lines don't seem to have changed much. cuz I just was curious. Yeah, it's it's subtle because again this this is the high point but
most of it's flat. So like most of these lawn areas I'm trying to get it 1% keep it flat and that's that encourages recharge and minimizes what's going to puddle out here because I like you said that that was added
in that was put in for a reason. There must have been a you know the history better than I do of this area. Um that was added in I'm assuming to catch the No, no, it was it was added in to catch uh anything on the side of the road
going down to the streets wash out so it doesn't all the way uh all come down to this catch basin down here. Okay. Um uh and in fact since they've installed it they've put sort of a collar on it of pavement to raise it up towards the field to prevent field water
from coming in. Okay. So this design and the the grading that we've done is encouraging reduction out towards the street. So that that's really the the goal. So I and I know it's like we're asking for waivers, but the waivers is because I technically cannot meet what the storm water handbook asked me to do.
That makes sense. Um as far as what comes through the wetland through the rash property and down again into this same parcel down here. Um should I expect the waiverss may affect the quality of the water? It it again we are
lengthening that flow path. It's um with with storm water it it's that time flow how allowing nutrients to uptake um and allowing water to seep into the ground. So from a from a water quality
perspective again the amount of tributary area I'm not anticipating any impacts on there personally and the analysis to kind of give you an idea there's we we looked at 6 and 1/2 acres there's a stone wall
that runs along the middle and there's a little bit of a spine here there's a hydraulic connection obviously this wetlands here I I I didn't analyze out there because I'm not changing anything out here. Our our anal um drainage analysis kind of focuses on
where we're making alterations. This does contribute and I'm sure it contributes quite a bit seasonally. Yep. Seasonally, correct? Yeah. This time of year, I even I drove by there today. I could see the water flowing through through the little notch there. And I'm like, "Yep." And then it drops off like
you said drops off pretty fast. Yeah. Ultimate ultimately to the lake. But again, there's it's not a direct I don't have a direct conduit towards the lake. It's going
across hundreds if not thousands of feet of woodland and grassland and other people's properties before it even gets there. Uh given that this will require a peer review, does that mean there's an opportunity to submit additional
questions or commentary? Yes. So, great question. What'll happen is um once we finish public comment and everything, the board is going to hold a vote and given what I saw from nods earlier, I believe the vote will be in favor of
peer review. Um we'll ask the applicant to put some money into 53G is that yeah, 53G account. Um I'm we our next meeting we don't have one in two weeks because that's Memorial
Day. So our next meeting is June 9th. Yes, I think. Okay. June 9th. Um if we expect turnaround and everything by then, which I think we can. Um this this is a public hearing. It will be reopened
on June 9th. Uh continued. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. It won't be reopen. It'll be continued to June 9th. Reopening is different. Um, and I'm just saying June 9th. Uh, we can handle it more formally, but is would
uh would that work for y'all or do you want to move to I think the the limitations when your peer the I'm assuming you have is Graves Engineering. Yeah, Graves. So, it's going to be their schedule when they look at it. Yep. Get comment and we give comment back. And um I I can't tell you for sure what that
timing is. I'm guessing a month should be sufficient based on other turnarounds. Would you agree with that, Logan? Or do you think we're cutting it too close? Um I I think it's worth a shot. It there isn't a lot of structural elements. I mean, this is again more of
a simplified approach. So, I would assume that it would be a a quicker review. There's not a lot of as far as structural sizing that he needs to confirm and groundwater mounting analyses and those sorts of things that are typical. Yeah.
So this will be handled at the planning board um at least once more. Um now if the if come our next meeting on June 9th, if we have all the info and the board is satisfied, that would likely
then be the last public uh last public hearing or last day of this public hearing. But yeah, you'd be welcome to come back, ask more questions. It's a public hearing. We always ask for public comment. If you have any you want uh to submit ahead of time, you can send them
to the planning office certainly or come to the meeting and ask. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um side note, this is what I love about public hearings when it's a chance for people to say, "Hey, how does this work? What's
going to happen?" And the applicant resp can respond and there can be discussion. and the teacher in me loves that. Um, other public comment. Seeing none at this time, we do have an email that was asked to be
addressed as well. Calling that up. Um, I think we can just read that in, right? Is that what we do? Yeah, I think. Yes. Okay. Excuse me.
Um, Amanda, would you mind reading the email? I can read you in its entirety. Uh, yeah. Okay, perfect. Do you want me to do header and date? I don't think we need I I think just the content of the email is fine. Okay. Uh, good morning.
My name is Thomas Kameda and I reside at 24 Woodland Drive, Lunenburgg. Oh, if you'll pause one second. Um, you have not seen this email. No. Would you like would it help you to respond in thinking about it to read along rather than just
hearing it? I'll just hear it. Okay. If it's if it's is this something that can be forwarded to us? Okay. Uh, I am writing to you today in reference to the public hearing being held Monday, May 12th, 2025 for the storm water management permitting of 100
Towns and Harbor Road. Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend due to personal commitments being the largest abutter of the property at 100 Towns and Harbor Road. I wanted to ensure at the very least my concern were were documented. Aside from receiving the
first notification that the lot adjacent to my entire property, that at the time of purchase in 2019 was designated chapter 61A would be constructing five four-bedroom homes and subdivided as an
ANR, noting during the past 5 plus years, the property had only been farmed maybe in 2022 when it was farmed for hay and and clearly utilized the design- designation as a tax shelter which
raised the question did the designation expire or was it removed without proper public notifications provided. Uh the reason I have chose to strictly pose rhetorical question is mainly I have seen the planning and approval of developments that are a complete
atrocity i.e 700 Massav and question how the town can continue to approve these developments when the current infrastructure is bulging at the seams to support the current community. Perfect example is the current school system that barely supports our communities current needs with
undersized building for all school age children. Below I have provided a rhetorical question that I felt was important to address. Currently, with any raising water level, such as heavy rains, my property experiences extensive
rising of the water levels at the rear of the property and the property experience experiences extremely high increases in water levels surrounding and under the home. Current lot plans show one of the properties would be
impeding on the 100 foot wetland buffer zone by surrounding and a meeting on this area. Would this not force any rising water levels to the adjacent property, further increasing levels on my property. Thank you for allowing me this opportunity. I do not look forward
to a summer filled with the infiltration of rodents from a lot that has not seen any use in close to a decade, but most important, the noise and disruptions of a five home subdivision construction site literally in my front and backyard. Respectfully, Thomas Kameda.
Thank you. Um, before I turn to the applicant, this is where I'm going to kind of talk as the board chair for a minute and and point out that this is a case where we have public
comment with a lot of various thoughts in there. This is a storm water management permit public hearing. Um and on the broader sense as a planning board
um by law we are limited in what we can do and in what we can look at. And I I keep looking to the side to say this uh but the board's heard me say this at almost every meeting for a very long
time now. Um, and they're equally aware for any given public hearing, there are specific requirements we can look at. For none of our public hearings are we allowed to consider things like, are we simply building too many houses
and is that bad for the schools? The state law is quite clear about that. Um, and this isn't even the MBTA community. I mean, this is old school land rights stuff, right? You own a house, you own land, you get to build a house. That that's a thing.
Um, so for any public hearing, we are limited in what we can look at. And for things like storm water, effectively, we are taking we are the gatekeepers of a glorified
checklist. Are these requirements being met? Now there's some subjectivity in the engineering is art and science and two engineers can approach the same problem differently and that's one of the
reasons we also have peer review just to get another engineer coming in saying yeah that makes sense or have you considered it this way or in the interest of the town I feel it's imperative it be handled this way. So
while there was a lot of concerns ve voiced here, um many of them are things planning could never look at just by law. And um but we can talk about the storm water
component and there was concern about the uh about moving into that 100 foot buffer zone and if that could increase water uh in the long run to the app uh not to the app to the uh comment property and just to kind of give you an
idea the elevationally this home here where he is is that's pretty much the high point of the property. So the the property that the lot that's he's referring to is down here below. Now ultimately this entire
wetland system runs along the low contouring throughout. So that aspect of it is connected you know on onto his property. But in this area here we're not making any changes. The stone wall we're not we're
not we're respecting his property. water is flowing to the north along that property line and that's when we're done. That's what we're proposing it to be as it is currently. Now, the impacts
here, lot five to him to to the a lot that's 15 ft higher, I I I don't really see the connection. Okay, that's fine. Um, great. So, we've had some concerns
raised. I I mean we have no way of knowing if the applica if the commenter was satisfied that that's fine because I did want to make sure it was addressed. Thank you very much for that explanation. Um and Mr. Kamea when you reviewed this if you
have questions um encourage you to come on down to our next meeting if you're able and great this is is there any other public comment? Seeing none. Hey
board, do we have any other thoughts or questions at this time? None from me. I think I'm going to feel better after we see a peer review and I think I'm going to go visit the site as well. Um I get a little nervous with
country drains. Um, there's plenty of country drainage on Flat Hill and it doesn't work and the road is flooded constantly and the, you know, I'm lucky enough that my house is, knock on wood, has been okay. Uh, when I lived in the
Midwest, we had a lot of country drains and 1 in of rain, the entire street was flooded and everybody's basement on the street was flooded. So there's concerns with um residents of butterers who already have water in their basement just from the table. Now you know I'm
not sure if a country drain is going to solve the water problems that are kind of being brought to us by the public. Mhm. And so I think a peer review would definitely help. And I think I'm going to I'm going to view the site too. No, makes sense. And and I agree. I think
peer review is going to be super helpful here. Um, I mean, we see this all the time, right? When there's a high water table, things get tricky. And when there's a tradition of water concerns in the
neighborhood from a high water table or anything else, residents absolutely, when I say I was going to say come out of the woodwork, but it always implies negative for some reason. That's not what I mean. people come out because they're concerned and um that's good because they should be concerned and we
give them that avenue and um I like that we're going to have the peer review. I like that the applicant has been super forthcoming in discussion. It's wonderful. Thank you. And
um so let's talk about uh let's talk about um the peer review. So, one of the things I would normally turn to our planner for um is the planner would normally make a
recommendation to us about the amount to be put into the 53G for peer review and we nod and go, "Yeah, that makes sense." Um, and usually for storm water, it's around $2,000. Um, but I'm actually going to
ask you your opinion because if we get it wrong, this could extend it. I don't want to say too high and make the applicant put more money into an account even though they get back eventually. I don't want to go too low and potentially mess up the timeline
for you. So, I think a dollar you're asking us for a dollar figure out if if you are com my gut left to our own devices. I'm going to turn to the board and say I would look for a motion such as to put
$2,000. But if that is too high to be doable for you that I mean that's I I'm giving you some options here because really this these are going to be things that impact you way more than
us up at the table in the end. $2,000 figure. I mean, that's what I've seen other similar scope projects being reviewed for. That's appropriate. Okay, great. And again, that's not And for the everyone's
edification, they don't pay 2,000. They put 2,000 into an account. If it uses it up, Yeah. If they use it up, they use it up. But if they don't, they don't. and then the applicant gets their money back because otherwise that would be part
part of the the application for this project was also the $900 review fee. Is that somehow incorporated in that because it was based on the acreage of the overall piece? Uh that is separate. Okay. No, that is um
the $100 per acre of property. um that that is not for the engineering that is for the other work in the town. Um I can tell you long term we are going to be we would like to revisit our fee structures and everything else but these are things
we can do when we have a permanent planner in the chair who can give meaningful feedback rather than us doing what looks to be best. But you don't want to create other issues for applicants uh or the town if we go
too far in the other direction. Um and um okay. So I would look for uh a motion such as that the applicant
put uh that we establish a do we or does the applicant establish a 53G? I don't know how that works. Uh the vote could just be to uh require a um deposit of $2,000 for the purposes of a 53g account
from the applicant. So moved like the filing fee, we send you a check or drop off. Correct. There's a there's a form to fill out and um and the the check. Okay. So we have a so moved. Second. Moved and seconded. Any further
discussion? All in favor? I I Okay, great. Um, the sooner you get that into us, the sooner we can get this off to Graves Engineering for peer review. And I'm hoping this can get done real quick.
Uh, looking ahead, how does it work for us to continue to the uh meeting on June 9th? Would that if Gra assuming Graves can turn around, if Graves says he can't, we'll reach out and res and so you know we can look at rescheduling. Uh
Mr. Chairman, Jim Simpson, I'm one of the owners of the property now, the new owners. Y um I can get you the check as soon as tomorrow and you just tell me where to drop it off and who to give it to and it'll be taken care of. We're right across the street in the Ritter
building and so you can bring it there. Very good. Go in the front door. Turn right. and look for Logan. Yep. I can give you my um um email and number after this as well. Perfect. Okay, great. Um and uh
would June 9th work for you? Works fine. Okay, great. Uh looking for a motion such as to uh continue this public hearing to June 9th at 6:05 p.m. So
moved. Second. Moved and seconded. All in favor? I I. All right. Excellent. We will see y'all in a month. I bet we'll see y'all in a month as well. And um thank you
everyone. Great. We're golden. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Okay, great. So, um 1083 Northfield Road is before us for two things, for a um special permit for
common driveway and storm water management permit. Um, I feel like we if it's the first if we're opening the hearing but they can't cuz they they need to continue from the start. We don't normally open the hearing. We just
open it later, right? That's what we've done. Okay. That's what I thought. We were debating best practices because we think that requires us to readvertise. But we can do we need to I don't think we need to motion for the can we can motion if
it's irrelevant. It doesn't matter. Let me rephrase. I said that like less authoritatively. I'm making a judgment call. We can make a motion. If it doesn't if it doesn't matter because the hearing doesn't exist because we haven't
opened it, fine. if we suddenly needed it because we're not remembering right, we got it. Um, and look, we'll also have to follow up on if we have to revertise or not, but fine. Okay. Um, is this going to screw you up, this approach? I don't
think so, thankfully, because um, the next meeting is bumped out with the holiday. If we did have to revertise, there would be time enough. Um, I would have to potentially chase down the applicant for the another
uh Oh, actually, I'm not 100% sure because there's the twoe lead time with that. I I my gut's telling me that it wouldn't need to be readvertised, but I don't think it does, but all right. I I'm just
worried about Mr. Allison not being here and us triggering Mullen rule. And I don't think if we open even if there's nothing presented is the concern with that that there's um a static amount of those that you can claim. Yeah. You can only mullen rule one meeting. Okay. Like
so for any given public hearing you can miss one. Yep. I don't think it would trigger but I'm No. And and with you know potential changes to the board composition soon enough that's a that's a valid concern. Oh yeah. You're right.
Ah, okay. Yeah, definitely going to play. Your fault, Glenn. Abandoning us. What the heck? Um, all right. So, let's uh if that is the case, let's
uh in case we need to, we could have a motion to continue the non-opened public hearings for 1083 Northfield Road, specifically special permit for common driveway and storm water management permit to our meeting on June 9th, 2025
at 6:05 p.m. So moved. Second. moved and seconded. All in favor? I super duper. There we go. Okay.
Um, great. That is public hearings. Check. Board discussions. Um, all right. Tim and I got a mildly exciting email. I mean, it I find it exciting,
but I get that not everyone is as excited to hear uh FINCOM is uh ready to send a new member to the master plan steering committee, but I find that exciting. So yeah, uh finance
committee, we removed them from the um master plan steering committee because they had a member on the uh on the steering committee. That member left finance committee and it took and so we kind of removed it. Finance committee
took some time. They're back up to capacity. They'd love to put a member in. Um, I'm personally in favor of adding one more to the master plan steering committee as uh as the fincom
representative and going back closer to the original uh goals could also help with quorum to have an active member present. Any discussion on that or thoughts? Um, we could have uh a motion to add one
more member to the master plan steering committee, specifically an representative appointed by uh the finance committee. So moved. Second. Um moved and
seconded. Hope that's enough. All in favor? I I Okay, great. Um, rock and roll ab budding community notices. Do we
have anything big there? Um, no. There's a I want to say five lot subdivision happening in Lemonster. There's a hearing for that on the 19th, but it's in like deep deep Lemonster, farther away from the um town line. Yep. Uh,
while we're in board discussions, do you mind if I give you a couple other chair updates while I'm thinking of them that I I wasn't thinking of earlier? And frankly, going through some of the rigomearroll of daily office life probably wasn't needed
while people were waiting for business in that case. Um, just I want to let the board know that in the absence of a planner, we're still getting a ton done in the office. um in terms of things like making sure
that the FEMA um the the flood plane map update has now been submitted to Katie Pate who we met from DCR and she submits it to FEMA on our behalf. We're using their model bylaw pretty much directly. So it would be weird if FEMA came back
with any issues and we're assuming they won't. So that is squared away. Um, I'm working with EOHLC, the state housing board effectively,
uh, or housing group on our application for Oh, I have to look up that the title of that one. Give me one second because go into the correct workflow.
Um, yeah, look, our housing cho the uh housing choice designation designation application is something we do every uh 5 years and that opens us up for grants and everything. That's an application that Chris started when he was with the
town and um I've been working with EOHLC to get our application in and um it's a little questionable if we meet the requirements this year. So, putting it on our radar that we may need to do a
little um bylaw or other work coming up to solidify that, but that opens us up for a lot of grants and benefits for the town. So, it's something we're going to want to make sure we do. Um it looks like we we've slipped a little bit while we haven't had real strong plan like
consistent planning over years for the past couple years. So, we can apply next year if we don't get in. not a big deal. And the requirements are, this isn't like a grant where you're applying. This is just to qualify. So, it's a set of
criteria, hard criteria, checklist. Um, we may meet it, we may not. I'm waiting on that feedback, but there's things like that that's been going through the office. And, um, Logan can and Logan continues to be a godsend.
um as well as Brian Jingris has been um super helpful and uh Andrean Health as well. All right. So, committee
reports, master plan steering committee. Um we've had a few meetings uh since I last checked in. um having a couple minor reorganization reorganization issues. Uh there's a
couple people who are leaving their positions on different boards, so they need to be replaced. Um and I'm just trying to coordinate and get those positions filled uh refilled as soon as we can.
Um yeah, so hopefully we've got uh still working trying to organize meetings. Hopefully we can get something on the books soon. Mhm. Um I can let you know that I did bring um everyone's homework from that committee. Okay. I did coalate
it, bring it to over under and uh when we can eventually meet, they will be equipped and prepared to uh address some of those with the committee and and you and I, King Kabutz, about the next agenda. There's
um I think we'll want to be thoughtful about the agenda, but we're gonna want to make sure that we plan for some significant time and with enough notice so the over can come out and they can kind of share where everything is. A lot of the questions we have I think that
the or that the committees had can be answered pretty thoroughly at this point for why this recommendation, how come this? Um just for my own edification uh what kind of homework uh return percentage did we get?
Okay. Certainly certainly better than it has been. Okay. Um I think how many people are on the committee? Uh 13. 13. Although I I wouldn't have expected Mr. Rup to have done. I think we got about
50%. Okay. So, no, honestly, real great compared to what and I don't want to throw them under the bus. Um, yeah. Getting homework out of volunteer committee members is hard.
Yes. So, um Okay. So, great. Open space committee. Uh nothing since our last meeting. We are we are scheduled to meet tomorrow night.
Um because that came up in a discussion today. We were planning on getting together with open space committee at one point and I don't remember the exact topic. I think it was just to you had offered to have like a joint meeting with the with them and maybe specific to
the whole uh property coming out of chapter to kind of streamline that. Okay. That's what I thought it was. All right. Okay. Great. But that I I mean I learned a lot through that, you know. Yeah. Through that process. And it does seem like, you know, the the um board of
selectment of the the point person, the point board for that. I would love to have that discussion with them. Again, I would personally rather we hold that discussion till we have maybe an interimm planner can do it, but I think realistically we'll want
to wait till we have one hired for the town. Um, but you can bring that to the committee and see what they think. Yeah. Yeah. The meeting is actually Wednesday. Oh, okay. Uh, municipal building design committee. Mr. Ellison isn't here.
Um, capital planning committee has not met. You saw the results of capital planning at a town meeting and we will be um now I'm assuming with Mr. Beardmore leaving the school committee and Mr.
Alonzo leaving um the select board, they will not be continuing in their roles on that committee. But that isn't necessarily true. I should verify that because capital planning is weird in that it is a three-year appointment from
boards, not a one-year appointment. I mean, still people leave and get put in off cycle anyway. That's how I went in. But I don't know how that's going to shift, but um we'll see. economic development committee. Uh same
conversation that we've had going along. Still the focus is on trying to make Lunberg more attractive and easier for businesses to come to town. And uh we did have uh a meeting with the you both chairs, the chair of the the um planning board as well as the EDC as kind of a a
planning session moving forward. Um, and tomorrow, actually, tomorrow's meeting, tomorrow morning is with the uh I'll be at the Lunberg Business Association, which I believe that you're planning to attend. Yes, I am. Yeah. So, now the LBA
for the sake of those at home, the LBA is a separate organization from the economic development committee. you you see healthy overlap there, but the LBA is a separate non-government organization um to promote business in town as well
as to help businesses be good citizens of town. And a lot of what they did like that amazing. Uh for those who went to the vendor fair, it was an awful lot of fun and it was wicked fun and wicked good even though it rained cats and dogs
for days prior and through the beginning of it. So I real I I certainly hope the LBA intends to continue with that because that was a grave experience. So I I I do appreciate the chair's participation in in that effort and it's I think very important to open up the
lines of communication with with the uh business community and I think that's a a good initiative that you're part participating with. Thank you. Um all right, we've got storm water task force.
Um, we gave our little uh advertisement at uh town meeting. Um, kind of introduce the town to what we're doing and hopefully we get so we start getting some public engagement and we can start
discussing with the town what it is we want to do. Great. Wonderful. Um, Montichus Regional Planning Commission. Uh we met last week
on Thursday. Um a little side info on MBTA communities surely is in compliance now. Um and their their funding seems to
only be for like the grant that they were able to get is only for the MBTA community and its surrounding area. and transit stations. So, a lot of times with these MBTA presentations, they say,
"We're going to if you don't do the MBTA compliance, you're not going to be eligible for any grants." But it seems like these grants that they're speaking of are only applicable to those surrounding areas. Uh
did was that the feedback from MRPC? that is what uh it seemed when when they presented it, it said it was only for the surrounding roads and transit systems of that area. So, I'm not sure if that's 100% correct, but the way it
was presented at the meeting, that's what it seemed like cuz that I'm I'm curious because that may be what's happening in Shirley. I know the state has threatened a much larger stick for which um funds and grants would no
longer become available as well as at one point basically saying that the AG might be involved to right force compliance through the courts. Right. So I'm unsure that's just from what I've heard um from Shirley. Uh and then we
also were in the midst of our beginning of reorganization of the group. So there wasn't a lot of things going on. We did speak about MRPC and their documentation because of the current presidential administration. They need
to adjust all of their documentation to remove certain key words like climate change being a big one. Uh so they are spending thousands of hours redoing their paperwork to omit these words that the federal government doesn't want to
see. And if the federal government does see these words, then they will stop funding to the at the federal level. Uh however, because Massachusett laws and we believe in science in Massachusetts,
uh are different, they're having one set of documentation for the state and a different set of documentation for the federal government. So, and they say in about 3 and 1/2 years, they might just have to throw this one out. So, that's kind of what's going on with the MRPC.
Um, it looks like their funding is back for for now. Um, it got pulled for a hot second, but it's back. Um, so yeah, things are tumultuous, but we're we're going right along. I I got to tell you
in the face of a wildly fluctuating difficult funding unsure scenario, Montichus Regional Planning Commission is doing a bangup job of figuring out what funds are available,
of trying to figure out what funds are more likely to remain available as well as hosting sessions like lunch and learns basically for members of constituent communities uh for the in government to get together
and say okay how are you facing these challenges um and as as Glenn Eaton says who runs the MRPC he basically says he can go to bed and the next morning there could be a completely different set of rules and then the next day completely
set of different set of rules so they're they're very good at navigating these changes that have been going on. Is is Glenn Is Glenn approaching retirement? Yes. Next year. That's what I thought. That is gonna be
That is going to be a loss for North Central Massachusetts. The people who impact your life that you've never met or you may well have met a dozen times at the store or something and you'll never know. Um Glenn Eaten is one of those who's really
done a great job. U the regional planning commissions help fill a role like MRPC. They help fill a role by giving by having an availability of specific expertise and resources that
can be that allow the towns in the region to outsource as well as coordinating multi-town efforts where appropriate for things like grants and everything as well as helping organize and make sure things stay fair between the towns. Glenn is an absolute asset to
North Central Massachusetts and he's one of those people that has over many years improved your life and you've probably never heard his name until tonight. So, I just think people, even though I don't think Glenn will ever hear this, people
deserve shoutouts. Um, and Montichus Joint Transportation Committee, we haven't met. We'll meet on Wednesday. Okay. Minutes approval for our 428 meeting.
I wasn't here for that meeting. That is Yep. You are you may choose to rec recuse yourself. That is fine. Okay. You are allowed in Massachusetts to vote on approval of minutes for meetings you weren't at. Okay. You don't have to, but
I just want to let you know. Um, and that's in our drive. I don't know if people have had a chance to review yet. I already read him. Can I make a motion? Then somebody can second later. Yep. Uh, you can make a motion and then I'm assuming it' be Glenn who would second
when he's ready and then I'm good. Okay. Motion to approve the planning board minutes from our April 28th, 2025 meeting. Second. moved and seconded. All right. All in favor? I I
um all opposed. Abstensions. I There we go. Bangarang. All set. Meeting schedule. Uh we meet at 6:00 p.m. here at our beautiful town hall. And you'll
notice I say beautiful every time I refer to town hall. take a look at it when you drive by. And then if you're ever here, like if you're actually up in the bala meeting room upstairs, actually look up at the old tin ceiling and everything. It's a nice
historic building. But we're here at beautiful town hall and um our next meeting is Janu January. Oh boy. Listen, big gap. Wait a minute.
Make any ANR you want, folks. That's no um June 9th again our next scheduled meeting would be on Memorial Day and we don't meet because government is closed. Um so J our next two meetings
are June 9th and June 23rd. Yeah. Um, so before I just want to before we go on to the end, I I said I wanted to loop back to MBTA communities a little. Mhm.
Um, actually, so what I would like to do, and I've kind of talked about this some before, but being clear, we're kind of under the gun. We don't get a lot of timing. I would like to take the info that Nell
shared with us tonight, um, flesh out the slides, maybe gussy it up a little for sales purposes to make it pretty. I'd like us to have a couple public meetings. Um, I may be reaching out
about scheduling for those because I'd love to have us there to all hear the public input if that's doable for people's schedules. If we're doing that though, we'll want to announce it. Not strictly needed. If
we're not, it's better if we do though. Much better. So, I will be reaching out over that starting probably in the next couple days as we finalize times and um basically the idea would be to get feedback on some of these
options and go from there. Do we want to but I want to offer open it up to us. What do people think? Do we have I mean ultimately the town's going the town's people are going to make recommendations to us. I know
how this board works. We're going to take them very seriously. But we also have our opinions and we're the ultimate we are the ultimate decision makers for what is presented at town meeting and then the town is the real ultimate decision maker and if it goes
through. Um what do we have for thoughts? Well, I was hoping all along that it would just kind of go away. Yeah, it hasn't happened yet. Um, but it will be interesting to have that conversation
with with town council because I think it's very important to have because, you know, we'll get those questions at, you know, town meetings. So, we have to have have to be prepared uh, you know, with with that guidance. But yeah, I just don't I just don't like
it at all. And I and I think the what's the phrase that keeps going around that the least bad option least bad bad option would be the paper compliance of the um Tritown. It just it's just seems disingenuous. I
mean it it it just it it doesn't it's not real, you know, I'm a fan of logic and it doesn't, you know, just kind of gets me into that the whole rabbit hole of what I what I do not like about the MBTA MBTA Communities
Act and that, you know, I'll try not to go down that that rabbit hole, but it was one of the the points earlier that, you know, it just bothers me is that, you know, it's the MBTA Communities Act and we're a small adjacent community and because of that, we don't have to and we don't have an MBTA a station that we actually can put it anywhere in the
community. Like that seems counter to the whole goal of the the law. So it's, you know, the more you think about it, the you know, the more frustrated the more I think about it, the more frustrated I get. But I, again, going back to the, you know, it is it is the
state government's law and we have to abide by it and it is what it is. But, um, I'll just end there. Mhm. No, I agree. Um it it is frustrating. Uh we could have one other
member of the board at that um meeting with town council. We can't have three without publishing ahead of time, but um did anyone want to join me for that meeting? It is like next week, Wednesday at like 100
p.m. If anyone wants to let me know. I I certainly will with that that you know the asterisk. But either way, I would still go. Okay. But that would that would open up for someone else. Yeah. Um All right.
So, no, I agree. I I hadn't processed, you know, it's it's one of those things I knew but had forgotten that Tritown has more zoned capacity than was used in developing
that district, which to Nel's point, I mean, you can't predict the future, but I I think that makes me feel better that we could be zoning that and it's far less likely to disrupt people's lives. Um, again, I've had some good
conversations and the good news is that um, the type of devel I know I said it before, but I want to say it again for people who are watching this part of the meeting, the type of development we're talking about for the MBTA communities. Yes, the state uses the term
familyfriendly and it really is familyfriendly for the culture of places further east of us where what we're viewing as crazy dense I mean I was in discussions when back when this was
proposed I was in discussions with people on Reddit who basically said what's the big deal 15 units an acre 20 units an acre is nothing that's not dense But they're speaking from a very a much more urban mindset.
Um, and for there, yeah, no, it's actually kind of open and gives comparatively more space. In a town like Lunenburgg, it doesn't attract families at the same rate. So, we've had a lot of concerns about schools and everything.
Um, I feel I'm much less worried about that than I was. I still like the idea of the paper compliance because a lot of our options I personally think we could I'd like to see dense development in some of those areas.
uh but I think we could do it better and that and that is again speaking to the importance of the the the uh public hearings or the meetings is there you know there certainly could be a contingent of the population that wants them and embraces it and could bring a certain perspective that would you know
swing us in theory but you know it's just important we do those inerson you know public outreaches um although on that topic I I know that when And I say, I'm going to sit here as the playing board chair and say, I'd
like to see dense development and I can don't worry, Lunberg. I can feel your hackles raising through the television screen. And I find it interesting. I've heard a lot of unsolicited comments about 7-Eleven Massav that the the four
duplexes that are kind of shoehorned into that that parcel. I mean, that's nothing. Yeah. I mean, I think some of those concerns are um aesthetic in nature. Yeah. I think coming from the Midwest, a lot of our
our more dense areas look exactly like that. Even more intrusive. Like I've been in town homes where you're looking directly from your kitchen into someone else's kitchen. And so, you know, aesthetically, does it make sense? You
know, maybe not. Maybe it's a little more dense, but in the long run, I don't think it's as as bad as it could have been. And um I think one of the things we we need to be aware of as a
community. We don't have to like that there's a housing crisis in the state. There is a housing crisis in the state. And I will be first to point the finger east of us specifically at Boston. And I will I could give you my opinions about
having the ability to freely develop a ton of basically business space, commercial and industrial without needing to have the corresponding residential. We don't get that luxury. Um it's not kind of
cute that they do and we don't and we get foisted with it. But there it doesn't change the fact there is a housing crisis. I mean, you're a property o owner in Lunenburgg for the past 5 10 years. Congratulations
on all the money you've made on paper. Um, there's exceptions, but it's all very expensive now. If our we want to look to the future for housing maybe the people who grow up here could move into, we're going to have to get thoughtful.
And as the state keeps changing these regulations, we need to be aware that by right development means it's going to happen. To that end, uh, one thing Adam Bernie said to me before he left is an old adage I guess for planners, which is
plan or be planned upon. So when we think about things like dense development, we have to understand it is coming to our community regardless. Our choice is not if, but if we're proactive, our choice can be
how. And do we want to let developers make those choices? Or do we want to be proactive and thoughtful about it? Hopefully using that master plan as a document to guide us so that we have the option of having
this necessary development that's going to happen in a way that doesn't hurt our rural character and charm and the parts that many of us like about the town. Can we still have farms and dense mixeduse development and not have them ruin each
other's vibe? Um, by the way, if you're at home and ever want to talk about this, ooh, let me know. I would be happy to sit down and chat. Um, chair, I I think it is also important to to highlight that this the MBTA Communities Act is not even a
really affordable housing. I mean, a lot of these are very expensive rental units. You know, it they uh people don't have the opportunity to uh to purchase them, and if they do, they're very expensive. And there are no like um
there's very limited uh affordable units in it. In fact, most of these units create uh more of a need to meet the 10% affordability. So, it's it's it gets caught up in the conversation, but these houses are not in my opinion and by, you
know, a lot of people, they're actually not affordable housing. They're very expensive. No, they are intentionally uh we can argue if it's right or wrong. Uh, and I think there's good arguments on both sides. I'm I'm not convinced either way yet myself, but MBTA Communities is
aimed at what they're what they're calling the missing middle that we've got a lot of single family homes. We have affordable housing by right or sorry, by requirement. But affordable housing being a technical
thing, a lot of people who can't afford big single families also would never qualify for affordable housing. There's a middle component. In theory, that's what MBTA
communities was supposed to address, but as we know, it is a three sentence law that got flushed out after it was passed. I don't know. Anything else from the board? Drummed up convers I mean interest in our future public meetings. What's that? Hopefully we drumed up in
uh interest in our future public meetings. I hope so because again town engage in the planning or others will do it for us. Um could I make a quick procedural comment on those public info sessions? Yeah. Um I think this may have been addressed earlier, but just if there is
a a quorum of the planning board there, it would have to get posted. Granted, it wouldn't have the gigantic lead time that a like public hearing under 48 and such would um but that would that would need to get
posted. Yeah. No, it would need to get Sorry. Uh I had thought that loudly and so when I talked about over the next couple days a few days, that was because I realized that we're going to come up against that. Yeah. What is our time? What is our lead time on that?
Like cuz it it's not public hearing. is just a board meeting. I believe that's just the 48 hours required by OL. Uh but I'll verify that tomorrow. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. No, if that's 48, that's fine, but I just want us to be cuz we'll want more notice than that out to the
public so they can plan to be there. Super. Um okay. Anything else? Well, golly board, if there's no other B board comment or concerns, I would take a motion to adjurnn.
Motion to adjurnn. Second. Moved and seconded. All in favor? I. I. Um, friends at home, thank you for joining us for this what was likely Mr. Mloud's last meeting as a member of this
committee. We'll see. But, uh, everyone have a wonderful evening out there in Lunenburgg and have a good night. Take care.