Okay, it's 6:32 p.m. I'm going to call this select board to order. In accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be adi advised that this meeting is being recorded and not broadcast live over uh the Lunberg Access YouTube channel after the meeting. Uh the agenda lists all the
topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be product for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law. So the only thing on our agenda
tonight is FY27 budget workshop. I was on a plane last night and I just got back so I'm a little out of the loop. I'm trying my best to catch up. Uh so I don't really know exactly how we want to do this tonight and we have a lot to go through. Um so Jen, what do you want to
start with here? Let's start with just explaining what you have in front of you. >> All right. So, everybody has this sheet >> in front of you. This is a summary sheet that shows what if there were changes
since the preliminary budget. So, if there is not a change since the prelim budget, it does not appear on this sheet. So prelim budget was on February 19th. So that includes
whatever those columns were as of that date. Second, >> can I interrupt you? Are we talking prelim to balanced budget number? >> So that just so all we're talking about right now is what was presented at the prelim >> and now we're going to talk about how
that changes. Okay. >> Thank you. So just February 19th, that's what was presented on those lines only at the prelim. If they're not on the sheet, they haven't changed since the prelim. Then the next column over March 15, 2026,
there were lines that have changed since the prelim no matter what. Okay? Override, no override. There's changes there. Some things got reduced closer to actuals. Some things got adjusted. I had an error, for example, on the retirey
health insurance, which was a pretty large adjustment the other way. So, anything that's been updated one way or another is in that 31526 column. for the ease of just following along and keeping everything on one page. Anything that's
in the proposed balanced budget or the no override budget, if there's a reduction to a line, it's in that 31526 balanced budget column. Now, referring
over to this sheet, you have the description of accounts. Then you have the anytime that it's budgeted, it's not the adjusted budgets, it's the budgets that were approved at town meeting for consistency sake. So we
have the FY25 24 budget, the FY24 actual spend, the FY25 budget, the FY25 actual spend, the FY26 budget. Then you have a column that says budget request 2027.
That column is the column that I was talking about over here that may have changed. I might have made some adjustments one way or another, but that's our out of balance budget. Okay, that budget as shown on this sheet is
out of balance by 1 million and it's on that last sheet 1,28,735.89. Okay. In the draft balance budget, if there is a box that is colored in red, there has been
a reduction there to balance the budget. So, um, and then those appear on that sheet as well. So, does and the dollar change and the percent change in the first in the right next to the budget request FY27, that's the dollar change in percent
change over FY26. Similarly, the dollar change and percent change next to the B uh the balance budget is also comparing to FY26 budget. So, both of those compare to the FY26 budget.
>> So, um I don't know how folks want to do this. Do folks just we can go I'm assuming that folks have perhaps at least seen some of the presentations at least the preliminary budget presentation. I'm happy to walk through
department by department, page by page, however folks would like to proceed. >> I think likely going down it if we flag things for discussion. I don't know >> because I have some questions about some lines. >> Okay. once you get to them.
>> All right. So, starting off with the select board, um the only change since the preliminary budget here um would be in the no override budget and essentially would be terminating our
contract with uh Gilfoil PR. That's about a $10,000 reduction. um the line doesn't adjust by $10,000 accordingly um because in that case we would want to have some
money for crisis communication or whatever unforeseen um right now it's covered by a contract. I think it's a cheap contract but and I'd like to keep it but that's why it's in that >> overhead cut. Um I don't think that there's any other changes since uh the
prelim. No, there's not on select board. Um, there were a couple adjustments here, but do folks prior to the prelim, but do folks have any questions about the select board budget? >> Okay.
Town manager budget. Um, the change here since the prelim is to push the assistant town manager from halfyear funded to fullyear funded started on July 1st. um that's partially offset by a
reduction later in the budget. Um and then in the balanced or balanced budget, there's also a reduction for contracted services here. >> And what are those? >> It it can be anything from assistance on
a mapping project. Um we for the fire chief uh recruit I mean the police chief recruitment we used um professional background check for example. Um so a lot related to hiring but anything that you need small contracts for.
>> I think we're okay with the sub. >> No I don't that's why it's in the I don't think anybody is okay in the like so let's be clear the column that's that's the balanced budget is not comfortable for anybody. It's a substantial budget cut and there is
service reduction in that. So, >> so as you bring that up, my first thought is we should also be keeping a tally of what we want in the override potentially or what you might recommend in an override. So, maybe you'd recommend say an additional 6,000 or additional in this.
>> So, the override recommended is what's been presented in this column. If we decide to go with a tiered option, we would have to look at what that would look like. Correct. >> In my opinion, the town has not
undergone what would be considered a restoration level budget process. We have not engaged around that. We've I'm going to take pavement management because it's the most simplistic one to understand. Pavement management got cut last year.
There is not a budget before you that includes a restoration of pavement management. >> Okay. There is not a budget before you that includes other than really fourth shift fire and an assistant town manager that comes with some pretty significant costs
associated with that and um and addition over at part-time for DPW. There's not we haven't engaged in that similar process. >> You actually go on the opposite, >> right? We would be looking at a substantially higher override number if we did that. So essentially
the town's number will be the same whether we did a tiered or not a tiered approach. Potentially >> ultimately we would decide that right like we could consider if we wanted to do a tiered approach on our side too and what would be included in those tiers. Ultimately we still have to discuss and
make that decision. >> I was thinking if we did tier this budget here is the lower of the two tiers. Agree. I agree. Agree. >> The second would be the actual restoration. So, >> and what we want to restore then. >> Yeah. >> So, can I back up to the board? The
staff development 5,000. >> Sorry. What's in that? >> So, that um the first year of that was the most expensive because we had to buy the plaques themselves. But it's the merit awards payments plus the cost for
putting on an annual employee appreciation event and then not much else after that. That >> can it be level from last year? No. >> So it it went up >> because it if if the balance budget or
>> in both it's the same. >> No >> 3500 in the FY26. Not if you want to have staff appreciation events. >> It's 5,000 in in your balanced and no override budget. >> Yes. And that's based on the articulated
goals of the select board in terms of staff. >> Y >> if we're looking at a restoration override, we potentially could be looking at more on that that line. >> I add I don't think that that's where I'd add. >> Okay. I'm just But that's the kind of conversation we having here.
>> Yeah. I don't think that that I think that the $5,000 is sufficiently funded in all circumstances. Yeah. For that. >> All right. So, um, in the town manager budget, the one real big unknown there
is, um, I have not had any adjustment from me, Talererman, and Costa. As the board's aware, it's been a very busy legal year. Um, I don't see that getting any less busy. Um, so I don't know without I don't know if we're getting a
substantial increase, but I think we should be okay with 135. Um, all right. >> When will you when does that contract? Do you know when you'll know? >> No. >> Okay. >> Um
All right. Finance committee, no change. Finance Committee Reserve Fund. This is a change that the board may want to consider
or the finance committee also. I've talked to them about this a little bit >> in the balance budget. we may want to actually raise this amount in the balance budget because if we're getting really really
close on everybody and sucking up their supply lines, they're not going to have space to go for unforeseen things. >> So, we may want to kind of have a collective pool to increase that reserve fund. >> So, you have that now in the no override
budget. You kept it >> I ke right now it's flat. So you would want to see that higher >> potentially. >> Yeah, >> we should go in. >> So >> higher override. >> I don't >> and yeah, you have a dollar.
>> Yeah. So that is just >> hold on. That's not in the override budget. We don't need the adjustment for the salary. I mean for the finance committee reserve in the override budget. We need it in the balance budget. >> Right. >> In the override budget, we don't need to
rely on a fincome reserve as well. So, we want to increase this in the balance budget. >> Yeah. And I'm f I I have some room in health insurance that I can make some minor adjustments without throwing us out of balance. >> You have a dollar amount that you would want >> $25,000.
>> Is that something you could do free cash too instead? >> Well, the whole point >> you don't want to put free cash in an operational budget for year-over-year expendit expenditures. And if we are in bad budgetary timing, we're going to need to rely on that FINCOM reserve in future years as well.
>> My thought was it's a tight year, so it wouldn't be an every year thing. You're just throwing in a lump sum for this one year that it might be tough. >> What I'm saying is I think that 28, 29, 30 are also going to be tight years. >> Okay. >> Right. So, >> and we probably >> but there are some other spots where
we've moved stuff out of the operating budget into one time. >> Yes. So if we increase this in the balance budget, we wouldn't have to find in other lines that you can cover in health insurance. >> Yeah. Right now we're out of balance by 33,000.
I can cover that in health insurance. I'm not worried about >> including if we increase this. >> Yeah, because we also have the PEC agreement, >> right? >> So we should have some offsetting there as well. >> I think I've said it in finance committee, but I'd be remiss if I don't
say it here before we go on. Everything that we are doing to get closer to actuals should and will have a equal and opposite effect on free cash >> right
>> so as we become less conservative >> we can now free cash you are supposed to be generating roughly 5% of your operating budget right each and every year in free cash so that you can that's how you fund intentionally one time
things, stabilization accounts, oped liability, capital plans, most importantly. So, as we do this, just for folks to be mindful that when we take these, two things happen. One, free cash
is lower. Number two is if we do it this year and we bring a line down, that's it. >> Can't do it again next year. It's a one time it's it's a one time reduction, >> right? All right. All right.
Flipping over to town accountant. There were some very minor changes. How do we Can I just at this point call them the balanced and unbalanced budgets? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, there were many So, there were two
small changes $1,000 each to the um both versions of the budget. So reducing some actual lines there of the accountant. Um you had two large increases going into budgeting. One was
our audit cost actuals went up substantially with the new firm. And then um and there is nobody else that is ready, willing or able to take us on that discussion. That is our firm. Um and then two is Karen's salary is more
than the her predecessors. Okay. In the assessors, >> oh wait, county, I had a question. >> Okay. >> Contracted services. >> There was a big >> What's the second column? FY24 actual
had 40,000. >> Oh yeah. >> And then it dropped down to 200 250. Now we're back to 5,000. >> Can somebody read me the object line on >> I can tell you I can tell you what that is anyways, but it's 11352. Uhhuh. >> 535006.
>> That was Say that again. >> Probably. >> Yes, I think it was. Yeah. The 40,000. >> Yes. >> So in all the other years it was consulting like a couple hundred. >> It was consulting services. >> So >> brought in. Do
>> we have any room? We're at 5,000 now. Do we have any room to bring it down? Any look in your crystal ball? I mean, it's really low all the other years. Although, although FY26 is probably actual is probably going to be really high.
>> Yes. FY26 actuals right now currently are 100,000. >> Yeah. But we knew we know why. >> Mhm. >> But I feel Yeah, >> I would be hesitant to put out a nothing. You just >> not nothing.
>> Um, let me look in out or backyards. the actual >> I worry the market is this is the concern that we're getting this in >> year after year. You never know who you're going to get. >> Yeah. I I think looking we could
probably bring it down to like two grand. >> I think that that would be okay. Yeah. >> And then just transfer. >> I'm not I'm not >> We'll just have to transfer in one time. No. No. No. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. So,
>> we're talking about that in both versions. >> Yeah, both versions. Contracted services. So, down to 2K >> or 25, whatever. >> Yeah. 2K. Okay. >> It's fine. >> Okay. >> If you need 500 is not going to make a difference when you need consultants.
>> So, this will help some short-term stuff. Okay. assessors. We moved the special assistant to the assessor out of operations. Whether that 27,500
is very, we know it's not going to be just one more year, whether it's very short, one more year, two more years, it does have an expiration. >> That was the new ad that we had is now not >> Yeah. >> So, where's that going to come from?
>> So, we're going to take it out of one time funs. either an old article or free cash. >> Okay. >> So, anytime we're talking about onetime funds, it's either going to be an old article or free cash. >> All right. >> One particular one we could do. >> Oh, yeah. We might do this right out of
the assessor's overlay. >> Oh. >> Um the access >> Yes, actually. >> Do you think we're going to have >> Yeah. in the overlay.
>> Yes, >> they actually were before meeting >> they were gonna they were going to um lower it except they weren't budgeting for the senior tax worker program. So yeah, >> and we have 300,000 in there just sitting >> in the above >> above
>> above. So you have the annual and then you have a that sits above >> and then they have the 260 they're asking for. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Good. >> All right. Treasurer collect >> lightweight assessors. >> Yep.
>> The mileage re reimburse. Some of this just I want to understand. >> Yep. Mileage reimbursement doubled. >> Yep. >> Yep. They're going to do um more inhouse. So more mileage driving around. >> Okay. >> More for the data collector.
>> Good question. If we know a lot, we've been in this like quite a bit. So, if you have questions, even if they're small, please feel free. If we don't have the answer tonight, I can look in here, here, or I can follow up. So, there's no question. There's no
>> There's a whole lot going on. >> There is no $1,000 that is too small to discuss. Oh, I know. >> Okay. >> All right. Treasure collector, we made some reductions here in both versions of the budget there. We have
brought down um both the treasurers and the collectors um expense lines contracted services 5500 to 2,000 closer to actual banking charges we've
eliminated entirely. If we have an insufficient fund fee we'll handle it. you don't need to have a line for it and there hasn't been any meetings. We also reduced in both the treasurer and collector lines. It still allows the staff to attend planned conferences.
It's just not >> those are closer to actuals I think right? >> Yeah. Closer to actuals. Same thing with mileage. And then >> down meetings >> meeting school treasurer zero. >> Treasurer went from 900 to 750 and collector went from 900 to zero.
900. She had budgeted. I'm sorry. That's the change since the preliminary budget. >> Oh. Oh, right. I'm looking at I'm just >> Right. So, she had increased it in the prelim. >> Okay. >> She had wanted additional money. She does not need it. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um the biggest reduction though was in
contracted services for the uh collector >> just closer to actuals. She does not she did not need it. So um there is no service cuts in anything that I just discussed with treasur
it the position of um director of communications and IT was eliminated in both versions of the budget to support the creation of the assistant town manager.
here. If the board was inclined in a uh restoration budget, >> I I could see either restore I could see restoring either in part or in full communications. >> This is a service cut to the people very
clearly eliminating that position. Um, I think we do a fairly good job on external communications and the expectation should be that we go back to more of basic Facebook and that you're not going to have the same level and quality of external communications,
especially with the position cut. Even though the assistant town manager will absorb some comm's role, it's not the same as having a dedicated comms person. So, that is one spot for consideration in the restoration budget. So essentially that's our first big item that we've identified as if we're doing a tiered
>> where we would have is it that 48655 number >> so that I'm sorry hold on that's full-time and that is hold on that was current so that's not what her budget would be give me one sec >> because we could do part time without benefits
>> I think if we're talking about the restoration I think the town can use someone that's managing the website doing all the things that she's doing. Just >> you have to add >> I agree. >> I mean, she's already full time. >> She is. Yeah. She like last year.
>> Oh, I know. Yeah. >> Is that >> But we have to add the benefits on top of the salary. >> Is that the 80,000? >> Oh, yeah. The health insurance line, too. >> I don't think we weren't paying benefits. No,
>> just because >> All right. Let me open up the So if the uh if something got zeroed out like same thing with treasure collector where it went from the nine back down to the seven. I'm just going to open up what that version. Oh, I have it right
here. I'm sorry. The uh February 17th version. So we had budgeted for that position 5945933. Yeah, it's a little bit more because this was before her increase. >> Yeah.
>> How much is that? 59 >> 5945933 and that rate does not include the cola. That is her current rate as of today with no cola >> and no benefit, no health insurance. >> We would have to restore >> if it's Yeah, that's all salary. If this
employee in particular, that's not a consideration here. >> Okay, so that's essentially for rounding. I know we're not >> doing this. 60 grand. That's the first >> restoration override budget number that we would if if we do a tiered one.
>> And the town manager contracted services just a small. >> Sorry. >> In a foil that was gil in a restoration. >> You would No, no, no, no. Because No, it's at 135.
135 is five. Fine. >> You're fine with that? >> Yeah. 135 and 10 are fine. Yeah. I don't Yeah, that's >> So, this is the This really is the first one. This is the This is the first one. >> That was court contract service. >> Yeah. And then 10. >> I'm a manager. >> Wait, is this 10? >> This 10. You're okay. >> Yep. Mhm.
>> I'm just Are you taking notes on >> and Melissa, you're taking notes too. This is the first IDE. Okay. >> If we're doing it to your >> If we're doing it here. Okay. Um the other thing in talking about it, I had contemplated
reducing the Souzar it at some point in the year from 4 days to 3 days >> with the loss of that position that is out now. Okay. So I I think that we do need the support. >> That makes sense. Um and then there was
a small correction couple hundred bucks to telephone charges um between the prelim and and the uh it was 55 380 and 56500 for telephone charges. Okay. Tax title.
These are the funds that are used in association with when the um treasur collector undertakes a taking. So, it's all the legal research, the auction, it's mostly lawyer fees.
We reduced um the registry recordings much closer to actuals. It gives us a sufficient amount down to 4,000. Even if we have a taking, that should be fine. All right. Town clerk
has no changes in any version of the budget. Um, but you will notice that the town clerk's budget overall is up over FY26 and that is because it's an election year, right? So, the town clerk's budget will flex up and then flex down.
If we weren't constrained, we just keep it always up and then it makes it easier for budgetary purposes, but that is not the case. Okay. Land use. While you just said that, is there any adjustment? No, we're already up. Never mind. I was going to say any
adjustment in a restoration, but so I think that some something to consider whether it's in FY27 or FY28 or FY29 is that if and when Kathy Herrick is no longer serving as the town clerk, the
costs associated with running that office are going to increase substantially. >> Right. >> And so at some point, we need to prepare for that. Kathy has a lot of part-time assistance, but she also relies a lot on others to assist in in getting the work
of the office done. I also think that if we were to change configurations of how that office is staffed, you would see a substantial increase as well of what the market rate for that salary would yield. So I think that at some point the town
of Lunenburgg has to confront the town clerk office issue and that is financial in part financial in nature. So whether that's now and we prepare for it I don't know but you we could flag it.
It's worth flagging. I think you'd actually end up with, my guess would be two full-time support staff in the office. >> Is that a conversation that we could have with the town clerk for a restoration type thing that we could be planning for? Because I mean, I think if
we get a restoration override, >> I'm not sure that we're going back for another bite of the apple another time. So I'm almost thinking that maybe we should plan for what that might look like if Kathy's, you know, retires or whatever. >> Like it's like an assess assistant pretty much. >> Well, even like the salary.
>> Yeah. Well, if the salary Well, so that depends. >> Yeah. >> If it's an elective, if it remains elected, then you don't have to have that same kind of conversation around salary, >> right? >> If it's an appointed position, it's a much different conversation around
salary. In either scenario, I'm gonna say that whoever walks in that door, elected appointed, is going to need another set of hands and and the normal staffing is two full-time people with the town clerk. That would be pretty normal. >> I think I agree with Amanda. I think it
makes sense to fit in the restoration budget at this point. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. I don't know when it's happening and I'd rather be it's going to happen at some point. So rather be prepared especially if we get the larger override number passed. I don't want to be you know
>> oh we didn't consider this >> right >> thing in a future idea. >> I think we need to talk about that also. I'm just flagging my brain now about control. >> Yes. Yes. >> That's a much actually more difficult not to crack. Um okay. Anything else on
town clerk before we move on to land use? Okay. Land use. You'll see a big drop in salaries clerical. Twofold reason. One is through a retirement. So you have a top end earner going out replaced by staff coming in. The second
is the 10-hour a week conservation admin position has been eliminated in either version of the budget. I would not recommend here adding anything in a restoration budget. However,
let's move back to the park page. What we may want to do is on that third line down, PR board committee clerk, >> we might want to up that. That is the pool of just minute clerks. >> Okay, that would make sense if we're not
going to include that 10 hour there. That way, >> and then it's not stuck with one. >> It's not stuck with one department. It's >> What would you suggest? Let me look at that. >> To increase the balance budget or to go to the >> No, in the restoration.
>> In the restoration. >> In the balance. In the balance budget, people can just have to make do with their own minutes, but you know. >> Okay. All right.
Um, let me see if there's anything else changing here. Purchase to service. There was a new line. It stays um in both in both versions. Um, $2,000 for purchase of service. It's for really for mapping and other professional services
requested by the planner and the meetings and schools has been um adjusted down. Oh, I have it in both. It's not in both. only in the Noval ed budget in the balance budget.
>> I'm sorry, say that again. >> The meetings and schools line reduced here in the balance budget for land use. >> Okay. the department heads here, the land use director, no I'm sorry, former land use
director, now planner, director of economic development, building commissioner, and conservation agent have talked about some potential reconfiguration here and consolidation of staff time. We're going to discuss that in another budget um as well, but
there is potentially room for some consolidation here further. >> I'm going to address that in a minute. >> Okay, that's it for land use. We have a new line of economic development. They've requested some funding to
basically seed their annual meet and greet event. In the case that um they are not able to get that fundraised on the town meeting warrant, there's a sister article to create a revolving fund for them to have a place to uh
deposit donations. So this is a new ad since the preliminary budget, but it does not survive in the balance budget. Mhm. >> This is the econom economic devel >> economic development 3100. >> Um similarly the APDC expenses do not survive in um
>> a balanced >> in a balanced budget. In looking at those it looks like it's been um mostly advertising. >> Okay. >> Um so of course you know if some if something needs to be advertised you can make it work up another line. All right.
Facilities and grounds. It might actually be easier to refer now to this sheet. >> So, facilities and grounds, we take TCP in either version of the budget
out of operating costs and move it on to one-time expenses. I originally kept TCP in the budget because we didn't know when in FY27 we would wind down. The um new indoor
water feature and substantial flooding that ever have occurred over there indicate to me that it is likely sooner in FY27 and later. So because I do not believe that there is any circumstance in which the town should be should be
operating TCP in FY28. I'm comfortable to move it for FY27 onto 110 >> sources alleviate the pressure of either version of the budget. >> So that is you're banking on that building being vacated. It has it and at
this point at this point I am concerned to >> to be to be clear the we cannot the carpet in at least one room is soaked. >> Yeah. >> We cannot rip it up because it is glued to the asbestous tile floor.
>> And so when that becomes an air quality issue, >> we're going to have to deal with it. >> Especially because there's children in that building. is definitely not that adults should be exposed. >> It is in the it is in the decommission part. Um, however, what Chris has
explained to me is that there are two layers of rubber roofing that are on that building. And so, just because there is a leak in one room, it doesn't mean it's above it. The water can be infiltrating, traveling across.
>> So, >> water is awful. that I >> that building has taken time. >> That was a shocking amount of water that was in I don't think that the videos quite did it justice. That was a shocking amount of water um that was open there. >> So I don't see any way that we can
continue to operate. This is only going to get worse that we can continue to operate this building. >> Now does that complicate sorry >> does that complicate the abatement of the asbestous meaning should we step up the whole process so it doesn't compound the problem? I think that once everybody
is out, we should just abate the asbestous because it's only going to be no matter what we do with the building, the asbestous abatement has to occur. Once everybody is out is the we should do it in a capital plan. >> Because whether or not we're tearing the
building down, we still have to wonder should that be like an an article for this meeting? >> No. Nope. Because I do not there's people in there. There's no reason that we have to have an I mean we have a fall town meeting. I don't see any reason
that we should go to an emergency. >> Worst case scenario, we have to just close the building if there was an air quality issue, >> right? And then it just sits as cold storage essentially. I will say in in the is it the old library the back it's already decommissioned.
>> Huh? No, in there was an old library room in that >> in the back. Yes. That's already sealed. I opened the door. The rug in there is this color. >> Not exaggerating. It is a bright green.
>> So, do we have enough in free cash to cover this? >> Yes. >> So, >> yes, we have um certified free cash is 3.4 million. 3.2 >> two. I thought it was >> I can't. Five. >> Yeah, I knew there was a four in there. Okay. 3.24.
>> That's not the first. >> You want more than that? So yeah, there's there's free cash to cover this. There might be some old money sitting in articles. >> So we're comfortable with this. >> I'm not concerned moving this off of operations.
>> So if I added up the first, you know, the difference between the first the preliminary >> it's a little over 100,000. >> Yeah. 138,000 summary. >> Uh well, hold on. I had half a budget
that I did. I had $120,300. >> It's the difference, right? >> Mhm. I'm doing the difference. I came up >> with this this section and this section everywhere you have moving TCP outside
of operations. 138 >> 17. >> I mean, we can look at it again, but >> Oh, wait. Nope. >> Okay. >> Pretty sure it's 120,000. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> All right. Um I'm trying to think if there was to Yeah. I'm trying to think if there was any other changes of significance um that you haven't heard about in the prelim for facilities. I think that there is at least one.
Yeah. So, um, in either version of the budget, there was an increase of $15,000 to facilities purchase and service. He has trouble finding
um so the facilities director has been encountered with year after year something that's a large unforeseen expense that he's not budgeting for but doesn't rise to capital. >> Yeah. >> Where are we? >> So it's one n
>> purchase of service blue. >> Yep. >> So it went up from 150 to 165. >> Correct. And the actuals for last year were 176. >> Yep. >> And I do you want to know where he's running right now? >> Yeah, because maybe that might be
another restoration number to go higher. If we run 176, never run that high again this year. Oh, there's a lot of lines. He's not running. So his actual spend
right now is 50 and he's got 30,000 encumbered. >> So I think that that's okay with that $15,000 increase um in and then there's also he does not receive any mileage or stipen for his
vehicle and so you have an inequity there um between him and the building commissioner that's addressed in the budget. Okay. Um, anything more on facilities? That's separate from parks which was coming down later. >> All right. Uh, town reports that has a
large increase. That's actual costs, >> right? >> So, that's actual costs of the it's really the spring and town printing of the of the booklet for spring and fall. >> Were we just not budgeting for that? Okay. So you were taking it out of other lines and moving money in to cover it.
>> Okay. Interesting. >> Yeah. >> So if the article passes that will go way down. >> It will. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> It won't go to zero, but it will go down substantially. >> Way down.
>> All right. Um next is central purchasing. There's two small cuts there um for office equipment and just general equipment maintenance. This is new desks, new furniture, repair of things
that are not covered under other contracts. So things break for departments that aren't public safety or DPW, this is where we go for them. >> So the equipment maintenance
>> that jumps up last year to the budget. >> So last year, >> so last year, >> yeah, >> there was actually an issue on the Excel sheet and Ezie didn't count it in the budget. So you appropriated 7,ou that
line was zeroed out all told and so you appropriated an additional $7,000 at town meeting that needed a place to go. What we have found is that we have needed it this year. So rather than zero it, it is our place to go when things
are broken and we didn't really have another spot for that. So it's back and it's staying. >> The spend was 130 and zero the two previous. >> So anything I will say in general anything historic that has been covered
in our office, select board, town manager, print town report, central purchasing, there is not the rhyme or reason in actuals that you would hope to see. So what we did is we actually took out all the expenditures. Melissa actually did this. She took out all the
expenditures out of all the lines and categorized them where they should be >> and made adjustments to where things should be. >> A free toner. Let's see what has >> exactly that. Exactly. Rather than move
money to where it should be so that you can It was just you need money. Take it from here. >> I think that's going on in a lot of >> It is going on in a lot of places. I actually was emailing certain department heads saying transfer your funds. Don't just take it from anywhere. >> Go and be done.
>> Thank you. >> Yes. No, I don't. >> The actuals become useless. >> Exactly. You Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. >> All right. >> Never mind. That's what you said you wanted. That's what
>> so police department there is a cut here um of the clerk position. Uh she is aware this cut was uh no matter what this was a relatively new newly created
position created a couple of years ago 19 hours a week um that that work's going to be transferred onto other staff. >> I would like to see that put back in on the restoration budget. I agree. >> I understand the need now, but it's
going to make the staffing down there that's going to it's going to be difficult to absorb. So, I would like to see that back in restoration. >> And what's what's the estimate for the amount of >> It is like 20 grand. >> Yeah. 21,000
800. Yeah. 22,000. 22,000. Yeah. >> Is that part time? 19 hours. Other changes um to police. Some are regardless,
some are only in the balance budget. So, in the balance budget, cut $5,000 from overtime. In either version of the budget, reduce to $45,000 for holiday pay. Not
all officers are backfilled, although office all are budgeted as if they're backfilled for holiday pay. So, the actuals are much lower here. I do have a slight concern as long as we're looking at actuals that >> the way the contract is written >> they get paid for them even if they're
not being backfilled. So just making sure that the number is going to >> cover our obligation in the CBA. >> Okay. We're not So our actuals are really low. >> I just want to be sure because that changes on on who's working. Um,
before we keep going in this department, can we talk about what this reduction looks like in staff for the officers? Because our team can not officer this year and army down sergeant. So, I'd like to just talk about what that might look like in a restoration. >> Sure. So, um, the
>> patrol and a sergeant, right? >> Yep. So, we are down a sergeant, right, to fund the contract. >> And then, um, by we're also down one SRO
because this budget takes one of those SRO's and changes them to a detective. >> So there would be one SRO ad >> and restoration >> in a restoration >> and that's going back to putting that's
restoring that's a service cut >> that is a service cut. So, it's it's an increase in one area. It's a service increase in one area because now we have a second detective, >> but >> but it's also an actual service cut by not having an officer in both.
>> But we're also lucky that we're getting detective level services and not at detective level pay. That's correct. >> Particular officer. So, >> that's correct. >> I totally support that. >> So, one SRO. So that back to two SRO's and then um >> sorry
>> and then the sergeant. >> So does that get us back to where we were for patrol to fill box retirement? >> I think that does right because that we lose the SRO that fills the patrol. >> I So
>> I just maybe that's a conversation, but I would like to make sure we get them back to where they were in the restoration budget. I know we're talking about cuts here to get us to where we need to be, but I'd like to see it go back to where it was, >> okay, >> in a full restoration budget, especially
with the two SRO. I mean, I'd like to have an SRO in every building, but at least getting us back to where we were. >> Okay, >> I agree. >> Okay. Um All right. similar cuts in police court time in
both versions of the budget, closer to actuals and less than lethal training in both versions of the budget. Um the inservice training um that gets reduced in the balance budget by $10,000.
The um >> I'm going to flag for you and I'm just saying this more for the public. I know you know this but that we're able to I think reduce right now but if inservice goes back to in person which has been there is talks about that happening with POC we that that will become a cost that
we cannot fund we cannot not fund >> right so right it's a change in the way that they're doing the certification work is largely they sit in front of the computer right now >> y that was change >> y >> um one more thing Jen this is more for when you're doing work afterward if we
the restoration level making overtime accounts cover actual staffing. >> Yes. Oh, yes. If >> because that doesn't just, you know, how that goes, that doesn't just affect >> Yffects all the other lines. >> Yep.
>> Um and then the firearm qualifications reduced in either scenario closer to actual. Um I think here the Milo program is having an effect on actual costs and so this is adjusting accordingly.
Um and then K9 expenses I just rounded. Um the dues membership reduced to actuals in either in either version. And then in a pretty substantial change um in the police line and it doesn't sit in
their budget. You see it further down and it's called salary reserves call firefighter. It has nothing to do with firefighters but it's in the police department budget. It is coverage for the window from 3 to 7. So right now we have admin staff that is at the police
department from 7 to 3. When they leave uh for the day from 3 to 7 that window and is covered by an officer. Um, are you looking for where it is? >> Yeah, I am. >> It is. >> Isn't it in a different section?
>> Yep, it is. It is. It's on the page that starts with fire department 1.814 million >> page seven if anyone else. >> And it's about halfway down. It says salary reserves call firefighter. And you see $10,000
in the right. Can I find it? >> I still don't see it. >> Oh, there it is. >> Here it is. Okay. >> So, this is the service reduction in the balance budget. That window would be closed at 3:00. Folks would arrive to
the police department. They would press the button outside. They would call dispatch. Dispatch would then either get in touch with an officer inside the building who would then meet the individual or dispatch would let them know that somebody is out in the field
and will be returning when. >> So it could be it could be an hour, could be 5 minutes, it could be somebody's there. Um but it's essentially closing the window from 3 to 7. >> So balance is
here. So 10,000 does that mean keeping it one day a week or not having >> just having him having him have a little bit of money in there if he wants to have one hour >> something >> something >> because I would like to at least see it I mean I don't want it I would assume
for me in the override not even in the restoration but in our core services or whatever we're calling our regular >> in the core in the it's in the core services >> so in balanced I mean I would like to see I don't know if we have any wiggle room but making sure um that we can at least have it once a day or I think that
10 gets us once a once a week or however the chief might see fit, but like I don't want to see that go down to zero. >> No. Yeah. >> So, I don't know if there's any wiggle room from there, but I I do understand why we're making that adjustment, but this residents do have to understand that that is >> if you come to the station, there won't
be any on there. It'll be locked in. And >> that's why I think it should be in the override. Yeah. So, it's again everything in the everything No. So everything in this column, this is the unbalanced budget. >> Everything in here is in the override right now.
>> Lower over. >> This is our lower override. Our core services, our level service with a sprinkle of salt. Um >> close the gap. >> Right. And then >> difference if there's ever a difference. >> Right. And then above and beyond that
>> is what is is what we're >> contemplating. >> Okay. >> All right. So I know I don't know why I didn't number these pages, but now I'm sorry myself for it. So all right, I think that's it for police.
Okay. Any other questions about police lockup? Anything on that? Okay, going over to fire. So, I was able to keep this
>> Wait, I'm sorry. >> Yeah, >> I had a question about lockup. >> Yeah, >> can you look at the actuals because I have heard >> that we are trending higher in lockup. So, I am concerned even in the balance budget about that >> in the five payroll or purchase of service.
>> Um the lock up 12131 5114 >> because I have My conversation with the chief at one point was that that's trending higher. We've had some serious reductions. I mean, at one point we had that line of like $70,000. Before we had safekeep, but my understanding is we're running high right now. So, I'm
concerned about cutting that line. >> So, right now we're at 81%. We should be at about 71%. Last year it went slightly over, but then in 24 was way under. >> So, that was it was lower before. It
might be just be I'm just flagging it because I did have a conversation with him and >> this line >> that line has been I mean you know I used to do that here that line used to be crazy high when we didn't have any you know outside help then it went down during co
>> uh and then it went down again during when we signed the agreement with safety but for there's more arrests I believe our arrest numbers are trending higher with our our patrol staff right now so I just we ran last year and we're already running 80. What were we budgeted last
year? 15 >> 15,000. Yeah. And so the actuals in 20 let's go even actuals in 203 were 10,92 24 were 7,269
>> 25 were 16,155 and currently >> Did you look to make sure that's >> they're not there's no transfers >> belongs there? Yeah. >> Yes, they do. Yeah, it's a good question. And then currently is 12,254. >> So, we're going to be
>> But he can move from another line that's running. I mean, if he's a little short, he can do a transfer from another line. Like right now, I was surprised to hear that because it had been trending so low, but it's just something in the bag. >> I think I think we'll leave it for now
and see what the trends continue to be like. It's very un It's very >> I know it's hard and it used to be if you go back it was crazy before. Is that something that we would want to maybe bump in the restoration or you think leave it and just watch it?
>> I think leave it and watch it and it's not so so far even if it's off you're only at 80%. It's not off substantially that you can't that we can't do it on purpose. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. Ready for fire? >> Okay.
So, in both versions of the budget, the fourth shift fire has remained. We'll get to how when we get to DPW, but DPW took the cuts. Um,
but going through the changes in both versions of the budget, what I decided to do, no different than what I did last year. I don't know why I didn't do it this year with the fire chief salary. We're going to have a new chief at some point. I was originally budgeting for what I expect to pay that new chief. I
think the chief's date is in November. Um, I'm going to put that delta in the salary reserve and take it out of this line. >> It's really not changing anything except moving it from one hand to another. Um,
let's see. Um in the balanced budget there are a number of reductions. So firefighter salaries those are our pdium folks reduce that from 291 to 225
out ofgrade pay from 5,000 to 3,000. Training from 50,000 to 25,000 equipment from 46,000 to 41,000. Outside training from 20 and all these should be marked in red. So everything
that I'm saying should have a big red box on it. Outside training 21,000 to 15,000. Reertification 315 to 2,000. Firefighter training supplies 7,000 to 5,000. Meetings in schools 65 65 to
4,000. Another meetings and schools line 1,400 to 800. Capital equipment 20,000 to 18,000. Uh capital replacement equipment 15,000 to 116. Equipment maintenance from
15,000 I think this is radios 15,000 to 10,000 and vehicle maintenance um to for the fleet 15,000 to 11,000 and those are all the changes in fire.
So what does that actually mean? And that means we are getting the fourth shift, but you're cutting the pdiums. >> How much? >> So it puts um Hold on. >> I appreciate that you were working able
to work with the chief to get these down. >> So some of these he put up himself and specifically around that fire salary. But to be clear, we would want this full thing in the restoration which we have in the should be in the
>> you have it in the core. >> You have it in the core. >> Core no matter what balance is >> there's a little >> it's no matter what but it's a tougher cell. We're cutting >> areas that portion. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, >> but we don't need anything additional.
>> Who would need the restoration >> res because it's in no. >> Yeah. So it drops the pdium roughly around 70 hours per week into from um about 112 hours a week of
coverage. So it drops the coverage for the pium. So there's less >> there's less coverage. So adding one per one shift per day instead of two. Didn't didn't he plan on doing two shifts? He planned on taking those folks and
rounding out to have the fourth person on every day. >> Trying to get two shifts. >> Yeah. Use the predium to get four >> so they could go out. >> Right. So, this is definitely one area for me I'd like to see at town meeting that we explain the difference here like
this is what you're if you go for this lower override or you know if you don't override >> you are losing these services. Yes, we are still giving the fire department something, but we're really not, you know, like we're getting them to like 1970s level thing, you know, something that we should have been at a long time
ago. >> You do not you cannot run under this scenario. >> We have two ambulances. >> You can only run one until you call somebody back. >> Yeah. >> So, I just want to make sure that we're clear about what this actually means if we're not
>> passing the and passing any version of >> folks have started. Actually, hold on. Hold on. that started giving me their impacts. So, specifically around this one, the de I don't know why I didn't look at
this before. The decrease effectively decreases the planned PDM coverage in FY27 from 112 hours per week to 70 hours per week. The effects of this cut will be as follows. The career staff will be supplemented by a PDM 10 hours a day instead of 16 hours a
day. While the exact hours that are covered are yet to be determined, the PDM firefighter coverage with supplement career during the day. This would leave evening coverage of three career staff. Without the fourth PDM firefighter in the evening, it will be more difficult to staff the second ambulance or have two firefighters respond in an initial
fire call. If the first ambulance is out, if we have insufficient call back for calls during that time, we will be relying on mutual aid, further strain on a tax mutual aid system. While this may not be visible to the average resident, it may be very visible to someone waiting for an out of town ambulance
versus an immediate response by our second ambulance. In short, combined with the fourth shift, there is still an overall improvement in service, but not to the extent that would have been possible under the FY27 budget request. Um, the Nshoba mitigation funds, if
released by the states, could temporarily cover this gap, but but will end at the end of FY27. That's great. >> Much better than >> if I look at the total fire, it looks like going from our balanced cut budget to the core
services overrides just under $100,000 different. >> Yep. So, we're cutting $100,000 the fire department by to to make a budget balance. I'm just trying to make sure people understand that like these are serious cuts. >> Oh, these are cuts. We're we're like, "Yeah, we can fit this in. This is not
>> this is not this is not fitting in other departments." I just actually the cuts from we haven't talked about a lot. They're about to get worse in the future pages. So, this is where it really starts to hit. >> Um,
all right. Let me see if there's anything else on these. I don't think anything else on this page. All right, next page. Animal control. To member Mo's point, our entire animal
control operation is $45,500. That is totally >> operation >> possible because of the person in the position and what they do
>> on the side for a business. The town of Lunberg does not have a kennel. >> The town of Lunberg without the services of Kathy Ko does not have a place. We do not have an intermunicipal agreement. We do not have anywhere to bring the
animals. >> We do have the temporary storage facility for a few hours, >> but not overnight. >> Can't be overnight. Yeah. >> Right. Um not monitored, not climate controls. >> No, no, it's very very temporary. It's if you find a dog and it needs to be put someplace for an hour.
>> Um so, additionally, her salary is $35,000. There is no way that if we do not have Kathy Coco, this is the animal. >> This person has to do cattle inspections, barn inspections, any sort of animal bites. I mean, animal control
does a lot of things. They don't just find >> annual barn inspections. And we have a lot of barns. Um any complaint calls >> and you're a kennel if you have more than three dogs in an emergency. You can't have more than three dogs. >> You need a kennel license. >> License. Um, you know, in a really
robust animal control operation, anybody that does not renew their license, we would be going after them and bringing them to court um to renew that license and finding. But I don't I think that we should probably in a
restoration budget appropriately budget for the future here. >> At least double not triple this this amount. That's my initial gut reaction. minimum $100,000 total. >> It reminds me of when the select board increased the town clerk's salary. It's like this is this scenario we need to
increase it to the appropriate amount. >> Yes. >> In a restoration budget. >> Even if we don't have a plan for how that looks at the moment, whether it's where it intermunicipal agreement with somebody, we're join who who knows at this point what that is. We just know
that this isn't sufficient. I agree. >> So I would I don't know what that looks like, but I would absolutely put something forth in the restoration. I think what I will do is look at a couple different scenarios of towns that are funded appropriately and kind of get an idea there from their all- in costs.
Okay. All right. Lunberg Public Schools, the number that's in here, I believe, is the current full restoration number um at the 28,529,98. Slight change. So, that was a slight change since the prelim.
Um, also a slight change since the prelim is just a couple hundred bucks literally for Monty Tech. >> Can I just clarify my own stuff while I'm making this note that number from the school is their restoration number because that's still right. If I remember from the checkbook, that's what they had talked about.
>> I don't know if that's the final number. >> They're still they're still making some adjustments that we're doing. >> Exactly. >> But something around here. Yes, >> that's the numberish. >> Yes. I'm totally comfortable with this. I just want to make sure I'm like, "Okay, what am I looking at here?" >> Yeah, that's the
>> resation. >> Okay, let's talk about pre-balance budget DPW >> because there were some increases pre-balancing the budget that we should discuss anyway. So, um, there was a
$25,000 increase to the drainage line, bringing it from 75,000 to 100,000. You don't see actual spends being super high to that in the um prior fiscal years, but there was more work that can be
contracted out than $1,000 a year worth. Um the other changes were a large increase to storm water management of $340,000.
So from $110,000 in storm water management to $450,000 in storm water management. >> And that's for the MS4. >> And that is for not the whole thing part of it. Partial compliance with the MS4 permit. So that's catch basin cleaning and
street sweeping. >> Can I ask you a question about that? And it's more kind of a Rene question. You're still storm water. >> Yeah. >> Do they take into consideration um what the center of mosquito control does for us in terms of
>> that to me? We haven't been a meeting since that >> I don't know if anything >> they don't clean like Yeah. >> But some of what they do maybe might go towards our combines just a flag maybe. them in storm water cleaning was the one that I
>> does even know that they do this stuff. >> Well, even that wouldn't that's not part of the storm. >> But the cover that's what I was >> but it's not the same as with the Culver cleaning for MS4 compliance. They go out >> Yeah. >> with their little >> vacuum thing >> and they have like their their little
tablet and they mark every single one. Yeah. We did this one. We did this one. We did this one. So, >> couple different things here. Couple different ways to go >> because in a balance budget that has been reduced back to $100,000.
>> The drainage has been reduced back to 75,000. I'm going to leave payment management out of this for right now for this part of the discussion. Let's just leave it right on storm water. In a in a restoration
budget, would folks want to see MS4 compliance and what that looks like in a restoration budget? The reason why is if we went in that direction, you avoid the utility.
Why does avoiding the utility matter? The overhead associated with billing for the utility >> and building it out >> and building it out. So would we want to fund storm water compliance? >> Do you remember what that is?
>> It's like 500 close to 500 and that's only the existing permit. We don't know what the new permit is. >> So that's 500 over the original. >> So it's like it's like 600k. >> Still would hire this engineer. So, would you
>> or 150 more? >> 150 more. >> I'd like to see what it looks like. >> All right. >> But I don't know that I would. >> Right. >> I'd like to see it in like I don't want all of a sudden our restoration number to be >> It's really big. >> It's getting Yeah, I know it is. That's why I'm like Yes. Because I know at some point we're going to need to be compliant.
>> Yeah. >> And the fees I don't think the voters are going to want to vote for fees. >> Yeah. >> So So this is how they don't vote for fees. >> Yeah. >> This is This is what I'm saying. I don't think they're going to vote for fees. So, let's look at what it would look like. >> I at least want to see what it looks
like. >> Including the including probably with that >> just to go around out the whole services like a junior engineer. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, um because I think for once you have
if we have full MS4 compliance plus we're we have >> other things going on in this budget, I think he need I think he needs the help anyways that he could use. I agree. Yes, >> 100%. >> So, >> okay, sorry. >> Do you want to talk chapter 90 and how
that impacts the drainage because that drainage projects can be paid out of chapter 90, right? But I feel like >> Yeah, I feel like that. >> Yeah, I definitely feel like there's some folks who are just like chapter 90, chapter 90, chapter 90, use chapter 90, and chapter 90, right? Yeah, it's gonna
>> So, let's actually pivot now and talk about payment management because that's where >> so in >> how much did we cut last year? >> Last year. >> Okay. So, it should have been >> Hold on.
>> I know I've asked you this. >> I think it was six. It It should have been 600. >> Yeah, cuz we were at 550. >> We should have been at 600 this year >> and this year should be 6. We were at we should have been at 600 this year and 650. >> So let's talk about first what that
should have let's talk about that for a minute. So in 2016 the town approved a $4 million debt exclusion to bring the roads up. Um presented at town meeting. We have the presentations of what was presented to
the voters at that town meeting. What I am trying to find because it's not on YouTube is the actual DVD. the words that accompany that accompany that slide. >> So at least from the slide without the accompanying words, it was represented
to town meeting that we would endeavor to get between$1 million and $1.2 million in the annual operating budget by year-over-year increasing pavement management. I think it was prior to that
town meeting the line was 250,000. Chapter 90 was a much different number than two, but payment management inside the budget was 250,000 >> only for a couple years. >> And then so to add roughly you were seeing associated $50,000 increases in
revenue for motor vehicle excise. So it was roughly a one to one. You're going to increase motor vehicle excise by 50,000. That's not really going to come through to general revenue. it is going to pass straight through to that line and increase that line 50,000.
Now that's what was on the slide for town meeting immediately in that in that annual town report. I think it's important. So I'm just going to find it. I'm having flashbacks to making these presentations when I
worked with DPW. because I know that there's going to be this notion of um we were promised that this is how this was going to go. >> Yeah, I can hear that now. >> So, >> the town I lived in, they did that with trash and that's how it was. >> Exactly.
>> Came >> Yeah. >> written in. >> All right. So in the annual town report from the DPWW director Jack Rodicquins, it states, "Also in March, DPW director Jack
Rodquins presented an updated pavement management plan for roadway improvements of all town roads that included a proposal for a $4 million voter authorized debt exclusion that passed at both the town meeting and ballot vote. The work will be done over a 4year
period and would be financed over a period at least twice as long. Now, here's this next sentence. The town will attempt to put an additional $50,000 in each fiscal year in the payment management line item account so there
would be sufficient funding for road roadway improvements going forward. Looking at budget messages from Heather Lemieux, she says it continues the plan of adding $50,000. Um, this increase is so in FY20, this
continues the plan. This increase is being supported by additional growth in motor vehicle excise. Then in the FY25 budget message, just to kind of show how this morphed a little bit, as in previous years, this proposed budget reflects the unwritten plan to
increase the payment management line by $50,000 a year, which is an increase that is supported by the additional growth in motor vehicle excise account in local receipts. The goal is to build the pavement management line to $1 million in the operating budget by 2033
in order to in order to sustain the condition of our pavement. that was realized through the $4 million payment management debt exclusion. The DPW worked with Beta Group this past year to do an assessment of the roads and to produce an updated 5-year plan that will
be used to continue to maintain using pavement management plan operating funds and chapter 90 funds. So, our current payment management plan expires in 2027. Um the director is working to obtain an
updated pavement management plan. Um but when it was last done, Beta Group did it and our PCI or pavement condition index was like an 84 and there is a quote that Beta says this is quote the
best roads that I've seen in New England. I believe >> our PCI is >> our PCI is very high. The goal of the borrowing was to achieve a PCI in the 70s. The other thing is chapter 90 money has
changed substantially. So we are looking at I think it's $770,000 in chapter 90 for this current fiscal year >> which is >> substantial increase. Last year was 690 with the additional but back back in 2016 with this borrowing chapter 90 was
like 400,000 >> sometimes even in the low the highs. So that is that's a substantial cut. So the cut to payment management is down to 50,000 to balance this budget. In the
override core services budget in the core services budget, it's budgeted at last year's which is 279. But would folks want payment management in a restoration budget to actually be restored to where we were? >> Yes,
>> I'd like it at 600. I don't know that I would support going to a million, but again, this is another one of those areas where >> I would want to see what the total number I have to see the total number. I know we're not working Excel and if you and I were in Excel, we >> But I'm just doing numbers, adding numbers in my head. This restoration
budget is well over a million dollars now. Well, we'll go up and then we'll come down. >> For me, I I feel like it's overly sufficiently funded. Like it we're we're putting more than we need to. I I'd have to hear from the DPW director that they're we still need more money. And
>> I would want to see and I know that the plan ended in FY27, but even using FY27's numbers, I would like to see what roads or what work can he accomplish which with >> have spent the money like have or is it cost like we're in maintenance mode now. The roads all are
>> not all of them. Some of them it's you always have you always have a blend. You always have some that are just you want to do your crack ceiling, fog ceiling every year to keep the good roads good roads good. Then you have the next level that you want to do like a shim and overlay and then you have the next level
which is total reclamation of the road and that's very very expensive and sometimes your worst roads stay with a failed >> rating because they're not worth it. So if the goal was $1.2 2 million a year and 770,000
is what we're getting this year in chapter 90. 430,000 >> gets us >> gets us the delta between the 1.2 and the chapter 90 >> which is so that so that's 430US 279.
>> I still would want to know I I don't want to just budget to that plan without knowing that we still need it. So, >> and I know we can't make a super educated decision without the new data, but I think >> I think we can >> maybe maybe Bill can look and see
something about what he thinks. And I >> if you ask Bill to look at this, he's going to tell you $5 million is what he needs to do everything. So, we we really do need that. We really do need that Tai and Bond who is the consultant to do an updated pavement management plan in
today's dollars. But that can't happen. This >> No, not it can't. No, it would be >> which is what I'm saying. Like I I don't know. I have a hard time advocating. >> But we also can't use chapter 90 >> solely for payment management. >> Lots of towns, Joe.
>> That's But Bill's plan for chapter 90 for other projects that are coming out of that. That's what I mean. It's chapter 90 is not this bottom that you can keep. >> Town has historically always used it for paving >> town, but So towns, a lot of towns
traditionally do not have many towns do not have >> pavement at all in their operational budget. Have you have you worked in communities that have >> they use? >> Oh no, how >> they use chapter did not have it at my tenure at the DPW
when I started there in 2011. We did not have payment management at all in town when I >> the chapter 90 plan that Bill presented at income. I don't have that. Uh you have you have it in your shared. Yeah, I did drop them in the shared. So >> there you would shift some of those
larger. So he's got large projects on this chapter 9 plan. He's got, you know, small bridges, major culvert repair. >> You would shift them off the pavement management plan and shift them and have them in their capital. >> I mean, where they kind of belong anyway. >> Well, that's how it was historically
done, >> which our free cash is going to be lower. I mean, you see this, >> right? It's still the money is still coming from somewhere. It's just where is it coming? >> I'll tell you, I personally did not have a problem bottoming this line out to
save more staff. >> So that's for me. >> If I have to pick staff over people, I'm picking staff all day long. >> Yeah. >> All day long. >> The rating of the roads over >> really good right now. >> Sorry, I said staff over people. That didn't make sense.
What would you if you had to put >> if I had to what would you if I had to do a restoration? >> I' I'd honor I think >> regardless >> I' I'd honor the $1.2 million >> total including >> total
>> so I would I would bring it to 430 >> in the restoration >> in the restoration. So that's an additional 151,000 in the restoration. >> 50 in the balanced cut, >> 279 in the base override, core override, whatever we're calling it. And that would be for what?
>> 151 more. So 430 >> 430 in a restoration. >> What's the delta for that? >> 151. >> 151. >> And I could $900. >> Yeah. >> That gets us to the number from the plan. The last time we had this plan flushed out
>> from chapter 90. It's not over ask >> and we know construction is not going to be >> right. >> I'd be good with that. >> I mean, I still want to see what this total number looks like. >> Yeah. When we add it all up because it's >> it's Yeah. I'm just like, "Sure, put that in." I would say >> and then we're going to have to look at
this is the first draft. I think this is like the first draft and we're going to have to look at it again. So, um, >> and so to that point, we have next Monday, >> y >> a workshop scheduled and Friday, I preemptively called a department head
all hands just to get them in so that I can do this all at once. >> This Friday or >> this Thursday? I'm sorry, this Thursday. Did I say Friday? >> Oh, sorry. You're not coming in on You're not coming in on Friday, those of you that are watching Thursday. So,
we're going to commute in all hands so that we can just get this >> in between the two or after the next one >> like this two days from now. This Thursday. Yeah. Because I figured that we're going to have some immediate reactions from tonight and let's just do that all together. >> Good in all.
>> That's great. Thank you for doing that. >> So, all right. That's it for highway construction. Now, highway highway salaries. Anybody that's in pink has not had their
cola adjusted. As you are aware, the negotiation for the DPW union is ongoing. We will talk about that executive session at a later point, but the salaries for DPW have not been adjusted here. Whatever raises will be
carried in the salary reserve, but there are also things that haven't been adjusted that may be implicated by the contract longevity on call contract evaluation. So there may be some changes in the DPW budget.
>> And wait, did you talk about the new admin? >> Oh, I did not. Okay. So, there is a a new ask in the core services budget for a part-time AMIN to support the DPW support SAM. So, it's it's actually not
just DPW will support both DPW and facilities. Um >> 19 hours >> 19 hours. >> So, no benefits. >> So, no benefits. And in the no override budget, in the balance
budget, I retained that at 10 hours. >> I do think that Sam is very, very busy. >> In addition, if we have buildings coming down and things being moved into temporary locations and projects
happening, I think at TCP, she needs it. No matter what scenario, she needs another set of hands for at least 10 hours. I can absolutely support the 19 in the core budget, but I didn't want to zero it out >> in a restoration. I want to look at Rene
I think a full-timer for facilities. >> Yeah. >> For for to buy for Kate out the two. >> I would I would split it up. I think that Sam is doing all of DPW aside from um sewer right now. I don't know. I mean, I think we could look at something
that's not I don't think that you need a full-time person if they're just admin support because it's a much smaller crew. >> You've got a crew of two. >> Y >> and >> so maybe it's just some sort of dedicated something. Maybe a principal clerk, not an a clerk.
>> I think Bill needs a full-time like project manager something. >> Okay. So, that's for restoration. He needs a Oh, I'm sorry. I need to talk about I was >> noing like an assistant director, whatever. I
don't know. >> A junior engineer, project manager. >> We already talked about that. >> We did storm water. >> We did. >> We talked about an engineer >> for storm water. >> Well, it's he's getting one engineer that's going to do storm water. >> I'm saying we don't get storm water.
>> No, no, no. If in a restoration budget, >> we would have a town engineer of some sort, >> right? >> That would be >> even if we don't get storm water, I'm saying we need an engineer. Even without storm water in the restoration. >> In the restoration. Yes. Oh yes. 100%. >> Because I don't know if storm water is gonna make it in the restoration.
>> But I think with the engineer Yeah. I think would I think >> I think that's long overdue. >> I think we could also that would also save us money on on consulting. >> It also it also helps us get the project out the door >> and done >> over the finish line. But I'm just flagging that if there's anything that
might need in a restoration what that would look like because again I just feel like >> what are our actual needs just as our the pie not saying I would support it depending on the total over but it's worth
>> just everything. All right, let's see. >> I see snow removal. So, I'm thinking of the question, how's our snow and ice looking >> blown entirely? So, I think we'll end probably at about a half million dollar deficit.
>> Wow. Okay. >> Over. >> Yeah, that's roughly about where we'll be. Um I actually heard uh from Karen Brochu on and just so while we're talking about snow historically the town has not balanced snow and ice with free
cash >> balanced it right as inside the budget. So it's it has the same net effect of six of one half dozen of the other but just a little bit of a timing difference of when those monies hit. Um, it doesn't look like we'll be able to fully balance
it. Although, we will not be able to fully balance it within the health insurance line. So, we'll know closer to town meeting how that looks. Um, whether or not we need to balance it with free cash or >> some stuff within or or within the budget. Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Um, but so Snow and Ice just has 2 and a half% increase. >> Can I ask you about Snow and Ice? We can >> I don't remember whether you brought it up or whether Carter brought it up, but we talked somewhere along the line about closing the delta on snow and ice and increasing the budget. Is that something that you would want to see in a
restoration or not at all at this point? >> You don't really want to increase that. >> Is that that must have been Carter that brought that up? Am I crazy? Didn't that get cut? >> You should You should I thought our gap It might have been you. >> You should keep the gap a little bit, but >> it's not not right now. No,
>> it was you that brought it up, but some I know that. and leave it. Right. >> No, just this one. >> Oh, >> just this one. >> All right. >> Yeah. >> And if you um as long as you don't cut it >> as long as you don't cut it. >> Yeah. >> So, if you cut it and then blow it >> because the year you cut it,
>> if you get um like three storms back to back and you there's no money, >> so we're leaving that. >> They won't give us chapter 9. I mean, snow and ice. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, you're allowed to deficit spend provided that you didn't cut it the year prior. Yeah. >> So, you don't want to overbudget it and
then have to lower it because you could get caught. You could catch yourself. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um >> you know that this year >> a pretty large change down at the bottom of that page that has no net effect, but
it's worth noting recycling program. >> Yeah. >> Wait, before we go there, I'm sorry. >> Sure. >> Traffic signals. There looks like there's a cut in line painting. >> Yeah. Reduced to actuals. >> That's actuals. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. That went down
there. >> Is that what we would want to see in a restoration? Is that the level of service that we want for lines? Cuz I don't >> She's not spending. >> No, I I can't justify right now keeping it there. You can pay for You can pay
for it out of payment management. >> Okay. >> The vehicle maintenance supplies fire. >> Fire. >> It looks like He is paying it, Adam. >> The 11,000. >> Yeah, I was I was surprised that it went to 15. Like I don't I don't know if I'd want that delta in the override. Like it
seems like 11 would be an appropriate the red the 11,000. >> So it's it's his vehicles are aging and they're costly to repair and often they have to get we can't repair them in house. >> So let me look at the actual right now
on that one. I think he didn't ask for an increase. >> He did 11 from 10 to 15. >> No, but I think he moved it in cuz see he's got no expenses here. >> I know. But there were some years when
we used to do the paving contract. >> I think that painting was awarded inside of the paving. I wonder if that's crosswalks. >> Crosswalk painting is also come out of there >> like not actual. I would look at the actual contract for
>> not the not the the strength. >> Yeah, that's coming I believe out of payment management. >> All right. So, let me see. One 149 142 some Can somebody read >> 1429220 and then it's 541018.
>> Okay. All right. So, right now he's at he's got at 99.99% spent. So, he's at actual expenditure of 8 grand and he's got a big incumbrance
of 7100. Let me take a look. >> So, this also has to do with the the age of our fleet, too. >> Yeah, exactly. And it needs to go out What's this big incumbrance? Oh, work on it. Yeah, I I think that that's a real encumbrance.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. >> Thank you. >> All right. recycling large drop in the in either version of the budget down to 350,000
um a from 456 was the budget last year. So that is not a service change that is after some discussions about recycling. Um Bill took a good long look at actuals and decided that he could safely reduce
there. Okay. So that's based on actuals. That's not actually a service cut. However, um we did meet with GW Shaw based on some comments um that were brought up at the tri board and um just asked them
about, you know, what would be the ease in moving the recycling program all the way on to an enterprise um doing it differently and starting with some data. So, um, we don't really have great data
on who participates and who doesn't. So, they drove around two weeks in a row with little clickers and counted how many houses they picked up trash at and how many houses they picked up only recycling. So, people not participating. Um, and how many did both.
So for total number of stops, 2,315 folks >> out of our 400 4,600 households, right? >> Trash only, so the non-recyclers, or at
least they weren't recycling that week, were 125 people. >> Recycling only, 388 people. So, there's not a whole lot of folks who are participating by getting their recycling picked up without paying for
it. I don't think that we could make any real changes to the trash or recycling program prior to July 1, >> but if folks are interested in us continuing to pursue pushing the entirety of the program onto an enterprise and how that might look,
there will be some mechanics around it that are difficult whether or not we get recycling totes, something to identify that you have paid stickers, however that may work. But um in terms of the
first question was, can GW Shaw do something like this? And in our meeting with them, not a problem at all. Whatever you need us to do, this won't impact our contractual relationship with you whatsoever. >> Except they can't do totes because they don't have the truck.
>> Except that Yeah. We couldn't move to a total program and we can't move to a total program anyways because of the cost. There's a large upfront cost unless you just put that right on the residence. >> Yeah. Unless they buy their own. >> Unless they buy their own. >> Yeah. I like this the sticker that we had >> because you could use any garbage bag
and you just put a sticker on the top bag. >> So I So they they the state folks highly discourage leaving the pay as you throw program no matter what you do >> whether you put the pay as you throw bag
in the um in the tote. Pay as you throw incentivizes folks to recycle and get it out of. So if you are not using the bags, what you typically see is an increase of your tipping fees for your
trash >> because people are just throwing stuff out because they don't Yep. >> There's no extra cost >> because there's no extra cost. So >> I can tell you we just in my household, we just started buying bags before we were just using my father's contractor. We just put stuff in. So we started
buying bag five bucks a bag and first thing my husband says is we got to start recycling, >> right? It forces it. >> It forces it. >> I would like to pursue >> putting this entire thing on an enterprise because when this originally happened,
we the town could make money on recycling. >> Recycling was a money maker at one point >> and it is not. So now we are covering the cost >> completely which I understand no one wants to see their I mean I use town services. I don't want to lose that. But I don't think it makes sense for especially if we're only having 2,000
some odd customers for all 4,600 households to be paying for some people's recycling. I would like to see it. I know that I understand that that adjustment can't happen for July 1, but I would like to continue this. >> Okay. So, this is keep Well, that's just my opinion, but >> but I I kind of I saw some nods earlier
like keep pursuing potential of moving the program onto an enterprise. Okay. >> All right. The residents will be thrilled. It's just very expensive. I mean, $350,000 is nothing to laugh at in the operating budget for recycling costs.
>> I think we should also keep considering increasing the fees of the bags, like have a consistent annual increase on the fees. We've gone gone through a lot of inflation over the years. >> So, you could you could take basically the entire cost of the program and shift
all of that cost onto the bags. you would just need a way to make sure you're excluding the people who don't pay who don't participate in the >> if you don't put bags out. You're not >> you're not getting picked up. >> Yeah. So, I would just like to plug for those residents that hate us right now
is that we're all residents too, at least those of us on the board that, you know, this these conversations aren't easy and they impact all of us as well. We're not just sitting here like, "Oh, hey, we want you to pay more." Like, I know I plug this every once in a while. I'm like, "I'm a single mom with three kids. like I don't want to pay more.
>> But I think as as inflation happens, like if we don't increase fees and like tuition for preschool and things like that, then it gets to that override stage if we're going to have to get an override to cover the expenses because we're not covering up the expenses. >> I just don't want people to think I'm like put it on Enterprise like that
still affects me too. >> Yeah. The trash company's bids next bid is going to be more money than it was the previous bid. >> Yes. And we were very lucky to have received the bid from GW Shaw because I don't know if any other bidder would have not forced carts. That is
>> that's what was happening. >> Yeah, >> I know that when we were going out in my last community for a contract, it was it was everybody was forcing a cart. >> We were concerned that we weren't even going to get a contract. >> Very lucky proximity to GW Shaw in New
Hampshire. >> Very lucky for the town of Lunberg and they're wonderful. So So, I was dropping off my census form at the temple clerk's office and somebody was paying their tax bill complaining. He just went to Hannifers, picked up bags, complaining about the cost of the bags and the quality.
>> Yeah, >> we get a lot of calls about the quality. >> The quality. Yeah, >> that has been also completely removed. The town used to manage that >> and that has been and like we used to >> we used to store all of the bags at DPW and thankfully now those vendors at
least unless it's changed. >> No, it's way zero out of South Carolina. now do all the >> everybody. >> But if there's a bad batch, people should let us know cuz sometimes there's legitimately like the the mill of the of the plastic is too thin. And so
>> isn't a sticker easier cuz it's the sticker there. There were two stickers. One for a tall kitchen bag and one for the barrel. >> Yeah, but that's going back to the tip. >> So it limits But it limits how much you can fit in. >> I You know what? We should have Irene Congden from the state come in and give
the board an education. maybe over the summer. She runs kind of the >> the recycling for this for our region of the state >> and she is the trash recycling enterprise bag fee all different >> by the size of the barrel of the size of
the bag. >> Either way, we can't change this for July one. >> No, no, >> but we do have a substantial reduction, but it's actually just waste on action. >> I guess all I was saying was I'm tired and if we can't change this on July >> Oh, move it along. Okay. Yeah. I mean kind of sassy like this doesn't
impact right there's no change here >> any versions of these budget >> no so I think we should >> all right thank you for moving us along >> all right small purchase of service decrease for
cemetery and no override all right >> um next next change board health we talked about this previously. Um I kind of alluded to some reconfiguration. I'm not sure how this is going to shake
out here, whether there's some consolidation within this building of positions or whether um this position potentially would be reduced to part-time. But either way, the dollars are the dollars and so that would be reducing whether it remains a full-time
and combines with some of the land use functions or there's just a reduction here. So, um, >> and then in the core it's just it stays the same. >> In the core, it stays the same. Um, I also reduced a lot of in both versions
of the budget a lot of the supply lines for the board of health um because they're not being expended. When I looked in actuals, um the I I actually almost even brought down that emergency preparedness line of $500
even during COVID that was unexpended, but it is a place that if there is some kind of something with the board of health, there's a place for them to go for something unforeseen board of health. So, I didn't want to bring it all the way down to zero, but the actual spends in the office are very low.
>> All right. Nishoba folks have asked those 30% increases for Nishoba Health and Nishoba nursing are an assessment and we do not have any say over them.
All right. Um, next cuts. Um, I think the only one in the COA that's in either version is a reduction to the training line from 800 to 500 to reduce it to actuals.
Um, there were some other cuts that the director was already moving some things around there, but in the no override budget, meal site manager reduced from full-time to part-time. So,
there was a part-time position. we increased it. >> That's an absolute service cut. I know there's a lot of nighttime stuff that she's planning and >> um but that's a service cut. And then also a small reduction to programs
there. Um yeah, any questions about CO? Oh, and I'm sorry. And then uh as well a she has a new line to go with the new position for kitchen supplies. Um that would be
cut and would have to be absorbed within the um office supply line. All right. Library. Before we go too far in library,
I want to point out something. I did not print there. >> Can you can you have department presentations open? >> Hold on. >> So, as I pull this up, what I'm pulling up is um
libraries have what's called a municipal aid requirement. And you cannot reduce the library budget below that number um in most circumstances without getting permission from the state.
And that number lives just uh south of 600,000. It was five. I want to say it was 597. All right. Close. So, their FY27 municipal appropriation requirement is
$598,83525 >> because we cannot go below that. >> Cannot go below that. And you will see that I have them at 598. I'm right above. So, it's right above it. The other number is that library materials
need to be 16% of the overall operating budget. >> Wow. Okay. >> I mean of the library. >> No, no, no. Yeah. No. >> Where is that? >> So >> that's the red 96,000. >> Yeah. >> 200.
>> Oh, good. Thank you. >> So, um, let's see. Library. So, we have the reduction to programs in the um balance budget, the no overwrite budget. We have a small reduction to
actuals. In either case for CW Mars, um it was at 22,000. I have it down um at 21. Just actuals library materials in the balance budget reduced from 106 to 96.
>> And it's not up on here. The library staff salary up above in the balance budget. There is presently an unfilled teen librarian position. That position would remain unfilled. So
they would have a staff cut there. >> In the balance and it would get put back in the in the >> in the court. >> What is the book service line that's not being funded? >> Yeah, he he cut that himself. >> Okay.
He moved that >> zero. >> Okay. Assuming you moved it elsewhere. >> Yep. >> I think the book service was I forget what he said in this presentation, but there was a reason that they no longer
required that funding. >> Okay. >> Wait, before you move on, go back up to veterans benefits. That orange line >> and there's aren't. So, we have seven folks receiving
benefits right now. Um, and it's running a little hot right now. >> Oh, it is now previous year's >> No, I reduced it, but it's running a little hot right now. I see something in there. It's actually a funeral expense. Um, that I think accounts for that, but
I want to see what her projections are without that funeral expense. I think it's right on, but I might need to adjust it up actually >> because the other two actuals were around 54,000. >> Yeah. No, it's it's running very high. >> Um,
good question though. All right. Ready for parks? >> Parks has some pretty steep cuts. So, um, the rectory in no override balance budget. the recreation director, which
uh we've just put out an offer on, gets eliminated. We we were clear with the individual that this is the situation. Um and that we very much want them to come and start and we hope that this is not the case and that we need to open the beach. And I I think that it might
not be a factor. >> Um but they do they do have awareness that the position is cut. >> Um >> before you go beyond that line, I would like to see that as a full-time position in a restoration budget. >> Yes, I agree. >> Absolutely.
>> They've been working for that. >> And then the hope, so for folks that are watching, the hope would be that if we have a full-time person who is able to work in recreation that they can build out the program and get the program partially running off of receipts,
right? >> Um, but you need really a full-time person in the position. >> You cannot do it >> to make that happen. It is you can't >> and it will take a while for somebody to build up a program and get it >> um revenue generating or at least offsetting
>> and I think the town of Aton uh recreation department is a really good example. >> Oh yeah, they do have a good >> started with um one person >> and then built >> and built it quite to to quite a big >> I think that >> you'll have the support for that too for
the town. I know there's a lot of people that across all ages that can use utilize those services. >> Oh, yeah. Recreation, not just for kids. Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. So, full-time wreck. >> All right. Um so, the town beach
salaries, you'll see that they're reduced but not to zero. Um, the parks commission is contemplating um, they either have voted or they will be voting, I believe, on raising the beach fees
>> and the lesson fees. And so they're hoping to offset most if not all of the beach salary onto those fees. >> Um, I was asked by uh the chair to not zero it out in case those fees don't
>> pan out. Um so you see the full typical funding in the uh override budget but not in in the balance budget. Similarly the salaries for programming would be cut in no balance. So wreck really goes
away >> it becomes just the beach. >> It becomes the beach. >> Yeah. >> That's it. >> Nothing else. Yeah. >> That's it. You're correct. >> And I think that if we didn't have a beach house I probably would not even be saying that.
Um okay just make sure okay uh we also reduce um okay the the parks purchase of service reduction um just have a lower maintenance
>> really with no balanced budget. We're almost done here. Historical Commission, they have a budget of $500. They use it for purchasing historical markers. That was reduced to zero. Band concerts,
$6,000 in no override reduced to zero. Um, and there were corrections down below in the town retirey health insurance from 500
to 570. That was corrected in the in the difference between the prelim. That's actual costs and the school retirey health insurance from 1.521 to 1655. And then I reduce liability insurance
from 245 to 225 um based on actuals and some conversations uh with our representatives. So that's a that's less conservative reduced to actuals.
So the health insurance you have in here >> that's at our current plan. Mhm. >> So that the health insurance as represented right now in this budget >> is our I have been using our enrollment
numbers as we've been talking since November. So just for consistency I'm sticking with those numbers so that folks can see it doesn't change that much that I need to be worried about those actual changes. So
based on uh the actual enrollments of November um and our current plan design with the 8.85 we have a 9% increase >> that is where that is now
>> um the if the the so this board is having an executive session tomorrow evening on the PEC agreement. The PEC member groups are starting to convene and vote next week. Um
if the changes are adopted by the PEC overall town and school reduction um would be approximately 200,000 >> um more >> total >> total total
um what else about that? I did have a conversation or an email conversation. I texted aside. I sent a very formal email to the superintendent, but I wanted to explain my formality. Um, the opt out program as it currently exists, the town pays for the opt outs
of all folks, town or school optouts. >> Why? Because it hasn't been particularly impactful. >> It's a one time, one year only opt out. It's a once payment of $2,000 per individual and $4,000
um per family. If the PEC goes with the change that we are proposing, I would imagine there's going to be a lot more folks opting out. And so while the school will have and the town will both have the benefit of those folks moving
from a a plan to an opt out as currently has been informally I guess between town and school the town would have all of the burden of that cost. So we would be going forward shifting that folks would take where you're losing
your active payouts. >> Yeah. Pay your own optouts. You're you're taking you're minusing them from there. You'll get a savings still, but you got to take care of it in your budget. >> That makes sense. >> It's still on that reduction. >> It still is absolutely reduction >> and and potentially substantially
depending on what plan folks are on. >> So where does that bring us? Okay. So, currently with the school budget at the number that I stated before, and we know that that's going to change, but with
that number there, the total override is just shy, it's on that last page, is just shy of 3 million. >> And that is our that is our core services. >> That's our core services included in that. notation. So that's override
um for both town and school at that the town deficit is the 1,28,735. >> Wait, where's that number? >> In the bottom the box, >> but is that the school's restoration over? That's not
>> have a middle ground. Yeah. >> So the the school number actually. So to that point, >> you say that other number again, >> which >> you said the um >> the override the total override >> for town >> for for town is in this box down below
the bottom number FY 25 27 deficit. >> Yeah, >> that is our core number. >> That's our core number. And you'll see over here they're still showing the 33,000 because that's where I said I'll just pick up that delta in the health insurance. I'm not worried about that.
Um, so and then up above the overrider cut number that includes the score school >> because I went back there's three different restoration budget numbers. So I don't I don't think they school or >> Yeah. for school. I mean I'm not talking
about a million dollar difference but >> no changing slightly I think. So this is this is the most recent number that the school has provided is what's in here included in this >> from Friday >> 28. It's that uh
>> can I segue while you're looking for that into what I would hope on our tri board meeting on Thursday is that between our workshop here today and the schools conversation tomorrow hopefully we can maybe >> get these numbers >> yes >> talked about together on Thursday >> at least for the >> so I I don't even know if we need a
meeting for that though I think we just need the number from from them >> schools >> so that's that's what I kind of if I can just I was trying I was talking to my spouse >> and trying to explain this concept and I said I feel like I need visuals.
>> So >> I was wondering what these are. Okay. >> Oh, I see. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> All right. So what we have here is really it's just a basic simple graphic
representation of a being the town restoration needsbased budget. The town has not budgeted to that. I think we just talked about that a little bit. So the dark blue what you have
>> we need two of those. >> Oh I'm sorry. >> Did I give you the right one? >> Oh yeah yeah yeah. Oh >> we got that together. Here's one. Here's one. >> Four boxes. Okay. Thank you. So, >> oh, wait. There's a second page.
>> I'll get there. I'll get there. Hold on. I'll get there. I wanted to do one at a time. Yeah. I wanted to do one at a time. >> I don't have a minute. >> Yep. Okay. So, this one. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> So, we kind of just started talking about what was in box A. What you have
in in this sheet here, the FY27 budget number is box C. It's the town core services, less than level services in some cases, more than level services in other cases. We have from the school the school restoration needs based budget.
>> We have B and C. We don't have >> and we don't have D. >> So just different options. So right now we have I'll hand anything with C and B on it. C
and B right now. But my thought is let's get a message out to schools. They can meet Wednesday and get us this information that we don't need to meet Thursday. >> So C and B is what we have right now presented. So this would be a $3 million
$3 million town core services plus school restoration. We have not done this, right? >> And we don't know what this is, but this
would be A and B, not So, >> it sounds like you'd at least like to know what A looks like. >> Yes. >> Is this I mean, it's it's not going to be >> science. >> Yeah. >> With the restoration. >> Yeah. Town restoration. Yeah. >> I was thinking town and school core
>> town and school restoration. Those are the two choices. >> Yes. Yes. Me, too. >> Okay. But we don't have all these numbers. >> But we need the school and restoration. >> We have C. We have C and B and we need A and D. And then that will give us our full picture. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> So you're going to work on A
>> and they should work and don't go together. >> They don't and B is currently this is what has been currently presented >> and I think that this is what folks are contemplating in the tri board. >> My sense is that this is what folks from the tri board meeting are contemplating is C and B.
>> I don't want to do that. I want to see numbers. I want core and restoration. >> So, what we're missing is what we just talked about tonight is our our a our town's restoration. That's what we're missing. And we're missing schools. >> And I think it's giving the school committee the message that we are
considering this and we would like this number for >> correct. >> Yeah. I'm not even sure that their respiration number. >> That's what I'm saying. I think we got it from them whether it's >> approved by the fi finance committee looked over by the finance committee but I feel like they've said they've got
their number. I have three different numbers and I think there's >> I think the numbers change over time. They get >> updated for expenses that could be different significantly like just the $50,000 applying $50,000
to the busing line the busing fees applying that taking that off the transportation line that was not done. >> We'll see. >> And there were some actuals that >> there's a question here though. Yeah. >> So who and how is this being
communicated? Because if we are expecting the school committee to do something on Wednesday, who, how, and what is communicating that >> huh? >> I think they're tracking that. >> So I don't want to be I I don't want to
get into the situation that we got into in the fall where we're talking in meetings and expecting that folks are watching meetings. I would be explicitly communicate it. >> Is that something that we get or that we would be comfortable communicating as our lesson on? >> See, honestly, I think the chair should be having those conversations. That's my
thought is I think the chair should be putting it on their agendas and >> getting this done. >> I looked at their expense plan and I sent her feedback. >> Okay. So, they should be considering those sort of things on Wednesday essentially.
>> I That was my wish. >> I'll find out. I'll >> The agenda doesn't indicate Okay. >> Necessarily. >> Yeah. But I think it's as a select board, I think we should be as a select board making that >> message to them that we need this information.
>> Basically go through the exercise we just went through. >> Correct. Because I don't want to be I do not want to be comparing restoration on the school versus core. >> Exactly. >> No. Right. >> And that's like you just said, that's the missing piece. Like what we just did tonight is what we need on the opposite end from them.
>> Right. In the inverse pretty much. Well, that's I mean I know it's stupid but like that's why I made these because it was like >> I was like and I was trying to talk about different I was really doing this it started with the tearing like okay so >> we have this bucket and then this bucket
and then we add and it said okay I need something visual because this is too confusing. >> It's not splitting out town versus schools. It's looking at two different levels of both combined. >> Yeah. And I think relaying that message that that the select board is looking at tier overrides. We need this information >> less and premium
>> like gasoline. Exactly. >> Yeah. I think so. I I had a conversation and earlier today and I think this exercise that we did was sort of the question that I was asked what we were going to do next. Oh. >> Um so relaying that I think will be
helpful and help them sort of understand what they need to do now on Wednesday. So >> okay. >> And I think I don't think I I don't see a need for the tri board to meet on Thursday. I think this is the work that needs to get done and I don't think there's any need. >> Do we know why there was an ask for the tri board meeting? Because yeah, what
happened with the finance? How did that come up? >> Well, so it was really we needed a new date, right? And so if we need to have a date for what we're messaging by the end of this month,
>> we have we have very limited time to reconvene a tri board at all. So we are in the week of the six >> because we have three weeks now. Not >> not even >> for >> not even the real three weeks. So we're
in the week of the So that the >> I can't make that bigger. We're here. >> The finance committee was going to have a public hearing on the 19th. >> Yeah. >> I don't think that they can have even enough information on warrant articles to have a public hearing on the 19th
because we don't know what some of those numbers are. We don't know the cap. Like there's a lot outstanding. >> Yeah. >> So I think no matter what they were going to open up their public hearing likely and continue it. >> Yeah. >> So, they need to have a public hearing though because they need so they cannot move the 26 because they need to get
their information distilled post the public hearing reduced to something and get they still have work to do on their own before town meeting and trying to get anything in the book that they can. So
if if we are trying to if we kind of committed that by the end of the month, what if you all have a tri board meeting next week, we need to have a number on both sides by the end of the month. We need time to work after the tri board
meeting before the end of the month. And so if we don't >> because we committed to having a number by the end of the month, >> right? And so we need time to work. I unless we're going in and everything you said, superintendent, everything you said, man town manager, we're good. You're good.
Otherwise, we need time to go back and do the things that we need to do. >> And so, I don't I did not hear I really heard in the tri board meeting two basic different very different kind of thoughts.
>> Yeah. I sort of started this conversation at the beginning by saying if we do a tiered but we still haven't even talked about I mean we just we just did the exercise but we still haven't even talked about whether that's what we all want to do. It's still what I want to do. >> It seems like it based on the conversations tonight.
>> I think the majority want it >> yes >> of the select board. from the select board. >> Yeah. >> And so the TR being the equal the quality of options. >> Correct. Yes. >> I think the public deserve it.
>> That's a good word. I haven't >> let them decide. >> Level. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Those are the terms we use. We'll see. >> We'll see if they just I've just been calling it tier one and tier two. So,
but um I think that we I think that we at the beginning of this said that we were going to try to get on on a page of consensus >> and I think that this would really be the last >> last opportunity. Yes. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> I don't personally have a problem meeting. I mean, I don't love meeting three nights in a week. >> Um but I don't have a problem with the meeting. >> Um because not everyone is going to watch this meeting. Not everyone here is going to watch the school committee meeting. >> So I I don't have a problem getting together and saying, "Hey, this is where
we're at." Even if it's just for the public getting the >> getting it out public comment on the >> Yes, it is. So >> it was posted today >> for and it's a different Zoom link. It's not our normal >> I I think we have quums for each
school. >> The school committee may not have a quorum. >> Oh, in the email they said I was told there was. >> Yeah, >> I was on the email while you were out. That was something I learned today. Um, I also won't be there. I have a commitment already for Thursday evening
that I didn't realize. Um, but you guys will be fine. >> Well, if there's not a quorum of the school committee, I don't know that it makes sense to convene. >> Okay. I think there can be >> okay >> if it's necessary and I can relay that
and >> you're running out of time. Yeah, I think I think that I think that in general folks are looking to these groups to ask what their leaders >> what their leaders are doing
>> and they're waiting for the finality of >> okay this is what the town's going to do so that folks can react in one way or another >> right >> and I think the longer we wait >> the so the longer we wait
the more time there's not information out Right. >> And so I I just am getting real concerned about runway. >> Are we comfortable as a board taking a vote tonight on whether we support tiered or not so we could at
least get that information out to the >> because I they were asking us you know what is going to try and I wouldn't vote without even if we're not putting a number but could we say we are definitely looking at two options or versus one like are we
I don't >> I'm fine with voting tonight. I think it was more of that I think the decision of the tribe board was kind of determined like this is what the tribe board wanted. They wanted an override and it was >> undetermined whether it was a tier one or tier two or two tiers or one tier. And I think it came down to okay thanks
but now it's the select board's decision to determine if it's going to be one tier or two. >> So I think the work's completed is my thought. I think we just need the >> information now from the school committee and then our work to do the town restoration. I mean, I can go either way. I'm not having conversations
with anyone on the school committee myself, but I I feel like we've been so collaborative. I wouldn't wouldn't want to close that door, especially because there was an ask from another committee to have the meeting, >> but I'm comfortable either way. >> Do we have to do that vote tonight for the tiered not tiered?
>> You don't have to do any votes. >> I mean, it sounded it's at, you know, certainly at that meeting I was I was aligned with tiered and it seemed like there was movement from the school committee towards that direction. So, I don't know if giving it more like organic time for that to, you know,
>> marinate marinate. >> Yeah, I'm okay with that, too. I mean, that's where I've been leaning and I didn't watch the tri board meeting, so I'm learning this for the first time today that that's sort of where we're all heading towards. It seems like um I don't know if there was much opposition
towards it. >> There was opposition to to a tier >> to there was Okay. I mean, they could in theory be discussing. >> It was pretty split. I think there was split of one tier versus two tier one one tier >> but one of the members of the finance committee's you know um statements kind
of swayed one of the others you know or had impact anyway on one of the school committee members. So, >> what were what were some of the reasons why? >> I don't think the conversation was I don't think so either. I think that the the um the core decision was
that everybody thinks that a joint override is the best path for >> joint as in town and school. >> Not se not separate not. So, a joint override. The question became whether it was
>> whether it's tear or not. Whether it's hold on >> Oh, what >> this >> or I think it was at that point this plus more for really just the >> schools, >> right?
>> Um like almost like a I'm sorry, not like it was like a a D and C with a B for the schools. >> Where we were left off at, >> right? >> Right. We have not engaged in this.
>> It was essentially this as core and then this as restoration. >> Right. >> All right. >> Right. But it sounds like No, it's not going to it's it sounds like it's actually a little different. >> Correct. >> And that it's and I think that that's a
lot of new information. >> I would like to communicate that. >> And it because it goes from >> a joint core to a joint restoration >> and the joint restoration is not 3 million. It's more like four. >> I have no idea what it is.
>> I know. I didn't add that up. But then that's a very different conversation than what we had last week, >> right? And it's talking about things for the first time. And so I Yeah, this is I think it's I think it's um to be true to the process. >> Ultimately, we have the final say. We
could just say, "No, we're doing it." But I don't know. >> I think that was acknowledged. >> That's against the spirit. how much work we've done, it would be a shame to not because of especially because of this conversation tonight. It really changes >> the look and the ask of the >> Yeah, >> that puts the onus on you to get that
number to us before. >> Yeah. Can you get the >> at least the lower tier number for townside? >> The lower tier. >> We need the higher number. >> You're going to go and check some things. >> Yeah, but that's I mean you really you have
>> so 1.03 3 million >> the lower tier. Yeah. Is the one >> I just rounded up that last page. >> Okay. So, we need the restoration. It's >> up to us now to decide what our second tier
>> what we're going to continue. >> Yeah. The top >> last couple of meetings and >> top show >> and the balance budget we just went through that that's just the default. If it fails, if the overall fails >> and that we really need to talk about the and the committee presentation what we are losing because that is serious
impact. >> So I have um asked folks to put together impact statements. Some >> um have been coming in um any assistance that I could get in helping to like refine that for messaging. I see you
nodding. Yes, I agree. >> I was going to ask if you could start sending me those now getting them. So I think that way just to >> I mean it's not lost on me that the person that I'd literally be talking to about doing the majority of the content creation is losing their job in.
>> So >> is there without violating open meeting is there a way to have a shared folder for these things so like each of us could if if anyone has time we could pick something and kind of work on it. I know we can't collaborate. I think that anytime you're doing messaging, it the
best messaging would be the same author is writing every document so that they read and sound the same so that they kind of follow the same like >> so we don't the school's balance budget. >> We have so you're you don't need the
school balance budget because the school's budget is one number and they know it. >> Yeah. And they can for town meeting Absolutely. You're going to present the balanced budget at town meeting. >> Mhm. >> I think you have to present the impact >> overall. I agree, but that would be
>> that's on the school department. >> That's a conversation. >> I'm just saying that's something else we need from the schools in addition to that. >> And I mentioned at the tri board meeting last week and I would mention it again. I think that they would be doing that anyway. But I think our we should ask them, hey, this is, >> you know, messaging this. >> No, I know they hadn't had the
conversation yet and they are supposed to on Wednesday. I don't know if that I don't know if they're having that. Do you know if they're having that conversation on Wednesday what their balance budget looks like? >> I believe I did not >> they did something like that. >> So they know what their balance budget is.
>> No, right. They know. >> But did they do anything like this or No, >> I thought they were talking about Wednesday, but I could be wrong. I thought that that was happening on Wednesday. >> On the balance budget. >> You think this is happening Wednesday? >> I thought that they're walking through the budget on Wednesday, but I don't know if they're walking through. I
thought I thought about that >> three budgets balanced and then the two tiers. >> I know. I thought they were talking about the their cut budget, their balance budget on Wednesday, but I could be wrong. >> Huh? >> Kill your favorite puppy. >> Oh, yeah. I thought they were talking about that on Wednesday.
>> Um Okay. Um so I will follow up with them. Okay. >> Make sure that we're aligned for what happens on Wednesday. Um I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, I'm going to see if they can have a quorum for Thursday. Um, I should be able to follow up with you on that
tomorrow. >> I know they posted that the agenda today. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um Okay. And then I think it's pretty clear what we need to do moving forward. So, >> so do will you have a restoration number by next Monday? >> I'm going to try to have that by next th
by next Thursday. >> She will. >> You guys aren't sleeping for the next Do you have the list? I have the list, too. If >> you kind of all molded here. >> So, all right. And I'm going to start like compiling all this, too. So, everything is like listed out based on
like the core and the restoration just so it's like I need a spreadsheet now, too. >> Yeah. Maybe take the spreadsheet and modify it. >> Yes. Yeah. So, I'm going to work on that. >> Awesome. >> Um, okay. >> Make it actually pretty. >> Yep. >> Anything else? >> I would just be remiss if I didn't
mention like the email that we received from one resident with the concerns of the the budget that that is a sentiment throughout the voters. There is, as I've mentioned before, a lot of concern with the lack of investment from the state and our priorities and it's it's well
well documented and I think that's you know we've got to keep that in mind as we go forward. I mean >> affordability is a legitimate issue and you know our state government is disconnected from the voters and we just
have to make sure as we progress through this process that we don't fall you know pick up the bad habits in our state >> and that's why I push for us as a board to advocate for increased funding but I also recognize that if we don't get it
it falls on us to do and at least personally I believe that we have that obligation to do. >> Oh, of course, the conversations here are are necessary and appropriate without a doubt. But I just think we have to capture that that people are aware that we have sent, you know, strongly worded letter after strongly
worded letter and have not >> intense phone calls >> and and conversations and emails and people's travel time into into Boston that is very well documented at this point with the the gubanatorial election. So I just think we have to be
mindful that you know and and to the conversation at the uh last try board that I certainly would never be in a position where I would try to predict what is going to happen but this is a very serious um ask to the voters who
you know are very the Lunberg voters are very generous >> in their um real estate taxes and everybody knows in my opinion that this is a state funding lack of state funding problem and they in my again my opinion
they will not address this issue as long as these towns throughout the common commonwealth are forced to do these overrides if they do the overrides the state simply is not going to address the issue >> well it's what they're hoping for we are
not in the business though of affordability that is not what we do here that might be what the state considers we are in the business of proving providing services to residents. That is what we do. >> And we always cost money. We always cost
money because and that is we provide services that cost money. >> And I would just caution you, you know, as as elected officials, we are charged from those who we represent to provide them an affordable, reasonable tax base. Well, in my opinion, as a select board,
our responsibility is to present the options and ultimately meeting decides. >> Of course, >> right? I'm just saying we have to be mindful that it's a very, you know, maybe frustrated um you know, population
citizens are very frustrated. >> So, to that end, we will have a balanced budget on July 1st, 2026. No matter what >> no matter what. And what that looks like is not the choice of anybody really in this room. It's really the choice of the
voters both at town meeting and at the ballot box. So how their town looks and feels and operates >> is their choice and it's our choice to give it's our job to give them the information >> so that they can make an educated choice.
>> But they will have the town that they voted for on July. >> And I will say I think this year we've done a good job of this. I know the tribal can be challenging adding more meetings, but I think it's been transparent with our our new leadership both in the town and the schools. I think we've done a really I would say
good job this year of getting the information out and talking about it. So, I hope that the town's people that do come out um are able to get that picture that we present at >> and I agree. I'm sorry. >> Okay. And to your point, we, you know,
it's critically important that we have informed voters. And where that came up with like the the potential of the 3 million override where it would be like $636 for the average valued house, I think we have to frame that as, you know, with whatever the tax increase
would be. We can't we can't indicate it would be just $636. It would be $636 plus what the tax increase would have been without the override. So I would just really advocate for making it abundantly clear
>> each step of the way to the voter as they make this decision. And part of that I believe is critically important is the fact we have to highlight the the issues that the town is confronting whether it's you know the Ritter town hall project the uh TC Pasio. I'm not
convinced that that's not an emergency issue that needs to be addressed now. um argument could have could be made that it is even without the current issues, but um you know the Turkey Hill uh rehab possible replace the uh turf field
there's a lot of issues that the town >> are you volunteering to help write some of that content because I am saying right now I cannot really do much more than what we're doing right now. My point is is just that we need to be make it perfectly clear. We need to inform
voters of how the impact of this vote as well as the votes coming down the pike. >> Well, this is my third year now working on an override in some form or another. Um, and I will say first of all, back to Amanda's point, the collaboration this
time is so different than it was last year or the year before in a much more positive way. And also second, we are better positioned now to communicate and educate to voters exactly what we're considering than we were last year or the year before. Last year we didn't end
up actually doing an override. We didn't put on the ballot, but the year before I think we didn't really educate too much. I think it was a very informal parents just kind of showed up and it passed. this year. It's definitely going to be a much bigger push to educate the voters
on exactly what's included in it, why it's necessary. So, I think that's going to happen. So, >> but I just want to echo that point. If you if you talking here is great, >> um, but I need actual assistance in helping that messaging. So, if there's something that you're like,
>> you know, I don't think that this is being messaged well, >> please feel free to put a draft together. Even, you know, like I know we just talked about with messaging in terms of having one author, but maybe if if there's a template, if there's if there's things that we can do if any of us have time, I'm offering to help out.
Like, you know, I know how much how many hours and work that you and your team are putting in. So, whatever we can do to spread the burden, you know, within our realm that's not stepping on your toes, I'm at least I'm happy to help where I can. >> Yeah. I honestly I think messaging is a
separate conversation at some point. Um, just focus on the uppers for now. I know that is that is the first step that what we did tonight doing the homework doing our due diligence being responsible questioning asking looking at actuals >> and we've done that
>> that has to be done >> y by every we're not done yet >> it's just that that that constant struggle of when's the right right time to bring up the conversation stuff but I I totally agree I mean this is a very important work >> once we figure out exactly what's going to town meeting and what's going to be on the ballot then
>> question it's all about messaging and communicating and whatever side you fall on, you know, that's going to be your side for a while. So, that's where we're at now. We still just need to figure out what the numbers are. >> Yeah. And so, hopefully,
you know, you've given me a good outline of where to go and hopefully I can have that no later than Thursday. Yeah. At least at least with a u maybe a tag in some of them that this is still really loose. But >> yeah, and then next week we can figure out what we want to include.
And I wonder if we get a vote next week. >> Yeah. >> To finish this off. >> Okay. All right. Sounds like it's um we're done for tonight. Um All right. Is there a motion to adjourn? >> Make a motion to adjourn at 8:58 p.m. >> Second.
>> All right. Roll call. No, never mind. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no. Motion passes unanimously and we're journed.