United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. In accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and
broadcast live over the Lunberg public access channel on Facebook Live on the public access Facebook page and will be uploaded to the Lunberg Access YouTube channel after the meeting. The agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these
discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law. We're going to begin with public comment. Are there any public comments from the board? No. No. I do. Mr. Chair, I wanted to recognize
the passing of somebody from our community. Um, in fact, I just came back from the calling hours for John Latanzi, who has been, uh, in this town since 1982. Uh, loving father and husband, and
certainly an integral part of the community. He was involved in many different roles over the years, including Lunberg personnel board, the conservation commission, and the historical society, as well as being an active member in St. Bonafice and Lady
of the Lake churches. Uh I had the pleasure of knowing John and being being friend with him and I know two of his five children fairly well who were also you know prominent members of the community. Jim Jim
Latanzi of Hollis Hill Farm and Jean Proctor who was involved of course with Proctor Landscaping and Whale Maros etc. Both families themselves uh integral parts of our community. So I just wanted to recognize his passing. I was honored
to be able to call him my friend and he will certainly be missed. Thank you, Mr. Longville. All right. Are there any public comments from the public? All right. Seeing none, moving on to announcements. And I have a
couple. Spring 2025 yard waist days. The landfill at 27 Young's Road will be open starting this Saturday and every Saturday until the end of May except Memorial Day weekend. It's open from 8 am to 4 p.m. For more information, visit the town website or reach out to the
DPW. Parks Commission will be holding a community meeting on Marshall Park. They've already held one. They're holding another one on Saturday, April 26th at 10 a.m. at the TC Pacios Gymnasium. So if you want to learn more about the Marshall pro park project, you can wait a little bit since the chair is
here to present on it, but also if you'd like to ask questions, then you can attend that community meeting in the all vendor fair. It's going to be a great community event. So mark your calendars. It's coming up and the date for that is May 10th and it'll be from 11:00 a.m. to
6:00 p.m. outside TC Pasios. Any other announcements? All right, moving on to communications from other boards. Do we have communication from other boards? I see Mr. Skull and Brainy here from the APDC, Tony Skelleny, Five Valley Road, and
also the chair of the Architectural Preservation District Commission. Uh, last week I addressed comments to you about the Brooks House, but I wanted to make it perfectly clear that those were my own personal comments because the Architectural Preservation District
Commission um had not met. Uh we had our regularly scheduled meeting last Thursday and what I'd like to convey to the select board this evening is the um the disappointment uh from the architectural preservation district
commission. Um we discussed um you know what was reported at both the one uh April as well as the 8 April um select board meetings. there was disappointment with uh there being no real firm action in terms of complying with what the town
warrant number 10 that was passed at the uh special time meeting in November 2024. Um so the select board or the APDC asked uh a APDC commission asked me to come today and convey to you two things.
One is that we would still like the um select board to you know fulfill the the information that was requested to deliver the information that was requested at the special time meeting. Uh and if possible do that at uh this
town meeting and scheduled for uh the first week of May of 2025. Um I understand that there's not much time to to I think to comply with all of the things that were you know indicated in the uh in the warrant that was passed by the town but the way the conversations
were left at the end of last week's meeting um it's unclear to the entire commission APDC as to what the plan is for uh the annual town meeting what the select board intends to do at the annual time meeting uh first week of May. So
that's uh the input that's the communication from quickly. Yes. So the plan is to give the update whatever the update is at that time. I would like for it to be you know to be some sort of update on progress but we're still giving that update and it's still
happening now as it was asked to happen. I guess that wasn't clear to me and and you know based on the conversations that you all had last week. So you're saying you are going to do an update? Yes. Do you have any idea what that might be at this point? You know, I could ask the chair of the municipal building design
committee for a status update now if you'd like that. Yeah, absolutely. So, we are on the agenda with the uh school committee uh tomorrow evening to make sure that we identify any of their concerns that way they can be overcome. Uh we are meeting with the library on
Thursday and we're on the agenda with them to also make sure that we can overcome any of their concerns. We've asked um the land use department um to provide us with the site plan approval for the library for when it was initially built. I think that what I'm
looking for is given the proximity of the kind of that parking that's to the north of the Brooks House. The hope is that the approved plan already accounted for parking calculations for potential uses for the Brooks House. uh and that whatever the parking calculations were
for the library at the time that it was constructed that there was that surplus there so that way there's already existing so that way there could be compliance with the um being able to provide some form of an easement to those eight things. So, the municipality design committee is also calling uh as
you know, we have two meetings, two more meetings this month um to be able to uh look into this some more so that way we can get the select board an update for the uh Tuesday before town meeting. Um so, you're going to meet with school committee tomorrow night. School
committee tomorrow night and library Thursday night. Library Thursday night. Okay. All right. That's good to know. So, we'll try and participate in those discussions as well, which I think is reasonable. Um, thank you very much. You're welcome. Have a good night. Okay,
ready. All right, moving on. We have up first an application for a weekday entertainment jukebox license and automatic amusement license for Blue Sky Golf, Pal's Golf Lounge LLC at 5 Summer Street. So, I'll invite the applicant
up. I think it's a pretty straightforward request. Just want to talk to it. Tell us what you're trying to put in. Yep. Darren Storms, 35 Upland A. Um, basically we're putting in a video game and
um a jukebox and then we have live entertainment. Mhm. All right, Jen, does everything look good from your perspective? Some money. He owes me a little, but the paperwork is all set. Okay, fantastic. And you're tracking that, too. So, Yep.
Okay, cool. I'll open it up to questions from the board. gives me the time to reiterate once again that I have no idea in the world why we have a jukebox license. Yeah, I was thinking that too. But I say that every time and it'll never change, but I'll still be against it every single
time. I mean, I'll before your license. I don't understand why it comes here. Why we need a why we need to have a jukebox license because God knows we don't want juke boxes to get out of control in Yeah, I know. I think this every single time, but I've never brought it up. Yep.
I just have a question about hours of operation. There's no day days listed just the time is it seven days what days of the week on the application or the application is for the machines that are going in so I don't know if we really need it says 8 to 11 I don't know 8:00
a.m. 11. So the um the only thing that's time bound here is the entertainment license in that it's weekday only and so it's not a Sunday entertainment license. Everything else would go with the um business hours. Is Saturday weekday? No,
it's not actually. Oh, so you just Okay. You just purposely eliminated Saturday. Okay. Saturday is weekday. Oh, it is. Saturday is weekday. Okay. So I was learned in school. Okay. Monday through Saturday is a weekday entertainment license. Okay.
Licenses are confusing to me, sir. Yeah, I didn't know that. Obviously, I don't know that we Saturday now. And don't play the music too loud. Sunday is very expensive. It's $400. So, okay. All right. Any other questions
from the board? None. Uh, I just have a question. Um, I know that this business is relatively new. Uh, how's it been going? It's good. Good. Business is good. Yeah. This is your opportunity to plug your business. I'm trying to Everything's Everything's good. Business is good. Excellent. Great. All right.
Well, with that then, is there a motion to approve the weekday entertainment jukebox license and the automatic amusement license as presented? So moved. Any addition? Second. Yeah, I was going to discussion. I thought I heard a second, but no. All
right. Those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no. Motion passes unanimously. All right. Thank you so much for coming in tonight. Thank you. Yeah, have a good night. Um, all right, we're we're just gonna keep going here. Uh, so we have about 9
minutes before our next one, which is a public hearing. Or actually, we're not doing the public hearing, so we could just do that now, right? Yeah. You're not opening the We're not having a public hearing. Yeah. So, we're not having a public hearing tonight, but we're still going to have
the applicant in the applicant's builder come up just as an opportunity to answer any questions and to discuss it. So, we're not going to make any determinations tonight. We're just going to have, you know, question and answer and then we'll repost the public hearing at a future date. I'm assuming that's because they're not
ready with the public hearing. So the abutters notices did not go out for the public hearing. Okay. So we're not ready. Okay. That's all I'm asking. Okay. So are you guys okay if we move forward as a normal discussion? No. So I will Yes, it is. So I didn't read it
yet, so I'm just going to read it. So um we have a public hearing, but we're not having a public hearing. So it's just a conversation for an alteration to license premises for the on premises alcohol license for Jungu Lo Inc. doing business as Asian Imperial located at
Five Electric A. Right. Okay. So, do you want to just tell us what you uh are? Yeah, we're going to do a 18 by 58 outside patio um with some stone walls and looking to put about five tables out there about 22 seats. Uh I'm here just
with my contractor in case you have any questions, concerns. Um I I think I give I submit the plans. You see everything's you know on there. But any further questions you can ask him. I think he's doing all the work, so he knows more answer than I do. Yeah, he has more
answers. Uh-huh. Do you have any questions for me at this point? Is this in the front or the back of the side? The side. Okay. Okay. Not the front. Not at the back. The side. If I'm looking at the front, it's towards the left. To the left. Okay. Towards. So towards Massav.
If you going to the restaurant, if you're looking at the restaurant towards Massav. Yes. Okay. Yep. Just wanted to know because the drawings didn't indicate. Oh, okay. Well, we will have uh like architect uh Jay Ferrer um put the actual this on the asbuilt plan. So,
more Yeah. professional done. So, but this is just the draft. All right. Okay. Do you want to come up to the podium as well? They do have I only I only made three copies, but you're Yeah, I think they have the copies. Thanks.
But we have Yeah, I think we have these. They're in our drive, but thank you. It's easier to look at. look there just so you saw kind of where it was going. Okay. If you actually drive down there now on the left hand side where this where the different colored stone is that's almost the size of the patio that's going to be there before the
abravite trees. Uh we'll be cutting in a new access door uh 42 by 80 for regress from and there's only exit only from the patio and entrance only from the restaurant. Okay. And that's from that's a feedback that we got from the fire and
police chief that you guys are tracking, right? Yeah, we do. I've I've done a couple patios. We've done it like that before. Um the Columbia Tavern in Lemon Street. I do a lot of work there, too. Uh built a few restaurants in my day. So, Jen, was there anything else in the review that came up? Yes. So, there um
from the building commissioner, um wanting to make sure that the uh pathway is illuminated in some manner so that at night that the exit is clear. Um, and so you might want to touch base with him about what he's specifically looking for
about the illumination as well as the hinge swing on the on the gate, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. It would definitely be an outswing exit only. Yep. Probably panic bar as you as you typically would do. Uh, we do have lighting on all the peers, just soft lighting just so people can see it. Um, obviously, you know,
Kim, we're trying to make it very elegant and and comforting to the community. a tongue. Yeah. So, I've had time to look through the application. I think it's very straightforward. Um, you know, the way that you're looking uh to do this, I think it's going to be a really
tasteful addition uh to the restaurant. Uh I think you have a great reputation as a contractor in the area, which, you know, I'm certainly familiar with. Uh so, no doubt. Yeah, it seems as if, you know, the lighting is already kind of existing on the front walkway. So, you know, a couple side lights and the side
pad. Yeah, we'll add wall. I didn't mean to. We'll add wall sconces in emergency lighting as well. All right. I think it's really straightforward. And Kim, I I mean, you know, I remember when you were uh where the uh it's been a while. Well, I'm redoing I'm
renovating the restaurant. So, Kenny will be redoing the bathroom, the painting, the sushi bar. So, this is the time I feel like we're going to, you know, make it kind of fresher again. So, a little bit new, more exciting. Yeah. Well, it's a pretty restaurant, you know. Excellent. So, thank you so much.
Thank you. Yeah. Great. Any other questions to them today? I I have questions for the a question for the board. Sure. So, I I I've asked this in the past when we started talking about outdoor policy. What is our role? I mean, this sounds like a building project that should be reviewed by the
planning board. Well, and we're asked we're being asked to extend the alcohol license. Am I This is specifically for the alteration of the premises in the context of the alcohol license separate from the actual building. I I understand. But but
shouldn't I mean again if we're if we're getting recommendations from the building commissioner and the police chief and everything about how it should be built, don't don't we have a policy guideline that the planning board has that if you want to do outdoor seating with alcohol, I don't I guess I'm not
understanding what we're being asked to even if this was a public hearing. I'm not here I'm not going to hear to approve plans about what they should be doing. I'm fine with them having an alcohol license as long as it adheres to the safety standards that we as a town dictate and I don't think that's a
jurisdiction of this board. That's I guess I don't understand. So I if I may um so I know that we've had this uh come up before, Mr. Lonzo. Uh in our the way that our alcohol policy is currently written is that we have to approve of any floor plan uh including outdoor
patios where alcohol will be served. So they can't even if they build a patio uh they can't serve alcohol on it without our consent and approval. I understand that. So that's why I think as a first step it's coming here but there still is an expectation as the contractor will verify that they still have to comply
with all the permitting stuff. It's just right but I guess my question is that we are in charge of the alcohol license. That means they can't serve it regardless of how it's built if we don't approve the outdoor license. That is my understanding. My question is I would
like to have a list of what the requirements are not the design but what are the requirements because every time we this has come up the very few times it's come up we've talked about the same things and we should have a sheet saying I'll approve it if you follow these guidelines. You mean the requirements
for the actual building? Yeah. Oh okay. Yeah. Well it is the investment. So if customer cannot drink outside like you know Michael said I'm not going to build the patio. I don't want to build a paddle, put all the investment in there, and then we can't get alcohol license.
So, this is the first step. And then we'll be working with the building inspector, Brian, which I've been working with him. there's um the code I think 521 or 541 that he requires us to also check with the conservation commission as well as so it's not this
is our first step but then follows that I want to make sure we're able to get the license first and then we'll definitely we can't build it without a permit yeah so the permit will come next and then uh of course we'll meet with the conservation and Brian there so he
make sure everything got to be built you know as to the code and fire department and police. So everything is Yeah. I want to be clear. I want to be clear just in case there's a misunder. Sounds like you're just looking for a list. First of all, first of all, I'm for it. Okay. And I would find it hard to believe I'm with you. I'm on board. I
learned so much. Well, I hope you're on board with it. You're the one proposing it. So, I'm glad to hear that you're on board with it. No, because I because I learned so much. I went to Jen a few times. I went to Brian. I did so much homework before I got here. Like I just don't want to be and then just continue.
So I did a lot of homework before I get up. So I learned so much even this morning you know he told me you have to actually have professional engineer not just the landscaper have a sort of landscaping plan you have to have somebody that's licensed stamp it approve it you know always all you know
meet to the code and then you can build which I agree with that so I said but this is my first step I want to make sure that you know like you there's no fun if you can't drink outside. I can make sure no one's going to stay outside unless they can have some kind of drink. So, it makes a lot of sense why this is the first stop. We want to make sure
that you can serve alcohol out there. Yes. And then I'm going to work with Brian close and of course Kenny and you know we're going to pull the permit and we do every step. You also understand Mr. Alonzo what you're saying. Yes. We should have a better idea of what all of
the building requirements are. Are going to be this first stop for this. I'm I'm looking at plans and I'm being told, "Hey, this is what they're going to do." I'm like, "This is great." They could they could come to me with not an engineered plan and said, "Would you approve this?" And I would say, "Yes, if
you if this what your plan is follows these code laws and it passes the planning board, sure." I can't think of a time. I said the first thing he said, "What about setback?" I said, "What are you talking about setback?" He said, "Well, do you have a plot plan?" I said, "No, these are plans to go." He asked the same question. Well, I asked the
same question as you. And then he was just like, well, you have to, so he kind of guided me. So we got the mission, set back, the plot line, and all that up to code like everything. I'm I'm familiar. I'm familiar with all that. I guess my question is not for you. It's for the board. The board doesn't have because
because you know, if we first of all, my understanding is that nowadays licenses, anything we approve would include an outdoor license if if it's described. Right. Okay. So extending it, I can't see a scenario where a board would say
to some individual restaurant, "No, we're not going to approve this." So you're not going to have to worry about your investment. But I want to be able to say, "I'll approve it as long as it fits the guidelines from the planning board, and we don't have what outdoor seating requirements for the planning
board are." So I'm taking a big guess that that's what's going to happen. It's not a guess on you. It's a guess on our own policies. Yeah, you only have a few in town that have outdoor currently. So, Mr. Jeff, yeah, I think I mean I I understand some of the confusion, Mr.
Lonzo, you know, during the pandemic um you know, with what was done on the state level. They basically gave the uh alcohol appointing authority the approve the ability to approve outdoor seating without it having to go through the planning process and through the
planning board. Um in in that case I think we were largely looking at existing businesses. No one was expanding their actual footprint. They were using um you know parking lots and and other areas that you know people weren't really creating spaces so to speak. In this case this is an actual uh
modification because of the egress that's being affected here. So this is a building modification. It's a site modification that is permanent that's not temporary and that's not going to come down. So it does naturally trigger a building process. So I think our role as per the policy when it comes to
premises, we're supposed to be looking and and I think we can go to it, but we're looking to make sure that there's an adequate way to get into it and adequately would get out. So it's kind of access control. Uh, I believe that's what our policy says. Access control, you know, how are they going to make sure that people come in this area is 21
and she's already answered that they're coming in through the restaurant that there's only one way into the area and then you can get out of it by coming through the front door. So, I think our role here is more limited and are there reasonable controls in this patio area that we look for in the inside of the building? Are they kind of replicated
here? I think that that's really the scope. But you know why we are the first step is because the um the applicant is going to incur in this case engineering costs and other costs that would be worth would not be worthwhile if in the
first instance we said no. U and that would stop the applicant or try to persuade us but it would save the applicant money. Um so I think we're just looking for compliance with the physical premise requirements uh that's in our policy and I I understand why we're first. I I
have no confusion. Yeah, but I think the planning board will look at the planning board stuff. We're just looking at access control, right? But we should have just a list of things and it should be under the planning board to review all those, not the board of selection. That's all I I've said this in the past. I sort of think six when this came up
that okay, the co rules of just approving things are going to expire. You need an outdoor license an outdoor alcohol license policy. I said it should go to the planning board. I said it then and I say it now because that's where it should be. and we should say, "Yeah, okay. This is fine with us as long as it
aderes to the alcohol outdoor alcohol policy of the planning board." And I think we should work on it. That's all I'm saying. Understood. Thank you for all that. I'll just say I fully support your application. I look forward to being built when we get there and visiting it myself when it is completed.
Are there any other questions tonight? All right. Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah, of course. Thank you everyone so much for your time. Appreciate it. Have a good night. Have an amazing night. Oh, do you want these back? They're good plans. Suitable for framing.
Thank you so much. Have a good night. All right. Up next, we have health insurance renewal with Susan Shulu of Cook and Company. And since Jen invited Susan in, uh, I'm going to pass it off to her to introduce Sue. Sure. So, thank you. So, um, you know, this insurance
renewal, uh, was a little bit of a sticker shock for some people and, um, largely in the community as well. Um, just hearing how large the renewal, uh, was going to be this year and that that is potentially going to be sustained. When Sue came in and
presented at PEC last week, I thought that it's just a short little kind of state of affairs. I thought that it would be beneficial for the community at large to hear from her. Okay. Thank you. Well, Sue, I'll pass it off to you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um,
thanks for having me. Um, just to introduce myself. I'm Sue Shaloo from Cookand Company. We do health plan consulting specifically for Massachusetts municipalities. We currently work with over 50 cities and towns in the state.
I've been doing this for 38 years and this is probably one of the tougher renewal seasons that I've had to experience. We're experiencing right now what I'm calling the perfect storm of so many different factors coming together
which is resulting in significant increases in health care. Um, the town of Lunenburgg gets their health insurance through Maya, which is the insurance arm of the Mass Municipal
Association. And Maya is a joint trust that's comprised of over 150 cities and towns within the state. I would say historically, Maya's increases have been
somewhere in the single digits. This year has been extraordinary. Um the rate range for all of the Maya communities is between 10% and 20% with the average just under 15
and the town of Lunenburgg is did receive their rate increase which is just slightly under 15%. Just to put it in perspective, um, as I said at the beginning, we're seeing these cost increases across the
board, across the state. It's not just Lunenburgg, and it's not just Maya. The group insurance commission, which is the state health insurance plan for state workers and municipalities, can also join the GIC.
um they historically have tried to keep their increases at what has been deemed like a benchmark or a target by the state. There were many many years where
they reached that which was again in the low single digits. this year for their active plans. The average increase is 12.7%. And the individual plans because
the GIC offers eight different options range anywhere from 10 to 17%. some of the other joint purchase groups in the state have actually disbanded or are talking about disbanding and then
others in the western part of the state have seen significant increases as well. So the question is why are we experiencing this? Um as I said it's the perfect storm right now of a lot of different factors coming into play. Some
of those factors are as follows. In the municipal world, there are very few carriers that will even write municipal business because it's an aging population, an older age group, which
means it's a higher risk group. The commercial carriers such as the Sigas and the Etnas, they don't want to write municipal business. There's been a consolidation of carriers. Harvard Pilgrim has absorbed Tus
Healthcare. Balon Community Health Plan has left the market except for Medicare and Medicaid plans, but they've left the commercial market. So in the municipal world, the players really are Blue Cross Blue Shield, Harvard Pilgrim, and Mass
General Brighgam. What's happening is those carriers are having a more difficult time negotiating contracts and fees, reimbursement fees um with the providers for many different
reasons. the providers are seeing increased costs, technology costs, staffing costs, where they're having to pay more to attract employees. They're having to pay
in many cases for traveling nurses, which are significantly more expensive than having nurses on staff. They are, as I said, seeing like increases in technology. They're also
getting lower reimbursements on public health plans such as Medicare and Medicaid. So, they have to make up for it on the other side, which are the commercial rates. So, it's getting harder and harder for
the carriers to keep providers in the network, but at the same time offer them a reimbursement that isn't going to bankrupt the carrier's clients. But it's also going to provide a high enough
reimbursement so that the providers will remain part of the network, giving your employees more choice. The other factor is the cost of prescription drugs. There are a lot of specialty
medications that are coming on the market. We're really fortunate to have them, but they're very, very expensive. Um, I think in general in Massachusetts, we're very fortunate for the health care
that we do have with all of the teaching hospitals. Um, again, we have the access to phenomenal care, but we pay for it. The same is true with prescription drugs. We're fortunate that they're
continually coming out with um drugs to treat uh chronic illnesses, but again, they're expensive. Anybody who has seen the news knows that the hot topic these days are the GLP1
drugs which are the diabetes management drugs that are being used for weight loss. They are very expensive drugs. Yes, we are so fortunate again to have them especially if they can keep people
healthy, but they're very expensive. Right now we're making an investment by having by your employees having the option of those drugs. Whereas the savings or the return on that investment
will be down the road when we see how the utilization of these medications affects the health of the employees. Um, Blue Cross has actually seen I was in a meeting just this afternoon. Blue
Cross has seen the utilization of those drugs for weight loss triple from last year to this year and they expect it to at least double going into next year. So, unfortunately, we're in a tough
period right now. I just want to stress that we're not expecting that this year is a oneoff and that costs will come down next year. All indications are that
we have to be prepared to continue to see this escalation over the next several years. Um, which is not great news, but unfortunately we believe it's a reality. All right. Thank you, Sue, for some of that background information and the bad
news ultimately. So, I'll open it up to any questions from the board. Renee, do you have any questions? So, I think I heard you say about 150 cities and towns are in using MIA Maya. So, that's about half.
Yeah. And it's actually higher than that. But yes. So what are the other almost and I would say that it tends to be cities or towns that are on the smaller side that can't can't stand alone um
can't have plans just on their own. So some of the larger cities and towns are not part of a joint purchase group. Some of them are fully insured directly with a carrier. Others which tend to be the larger ones are self-insured where they
assume the risk as opposed to the carrier assuming the risk. There are regional joint purchase groups around the state that a lot of the towns in particular participate in and then I
think there's about 45 municipal entities that are actually in the group insurance commission. So I would say it's a combination of various joint purchase groups or for those communities who are large enough to stand on their
own they do so. Okay. And I think I heard you say that they're also experiencing the same double digit types of increase for the most part. That's correct. Okay. Thank you
Tom. I don't have any questions. I I mean I would ask but I don't think I don't think our guest is able to answer like so what is the what is the breaking point of this? I mean if we're paying family plans that are $34,000 $35,000 a
year and we're looking at 15% increases next year or somewhere in that range. Everybody's got to ask so what what is the breaking point of all this? Like it's obviously unsustainable. I I I would agree with you that it's unsustainable. Um unfortunately there
are no magic solutions. You can make plan design changes which would bring your rates down but then it is a cost shifting um when you increase co-pays and deductibles.
Sometimes benefit modifications can affect behavior and so you can sometimes see behavior change. Just as an example, if you have tearing of providers, for example, and going to
Mass General is going to be um a much higher co-pay than going to a local community hospital. You may see some behavior changes there. We're constantly on the lookout for different point solutions to address things like
diabetes. Um Maya offers a program through a company called Apacus Health Solutions that incentivizes people who have diabetes to get their care and if they do so in exchange for that they um
their co-pays are waved on their prescription drugs. So I I think things are going to evolve over the years um upcoming years, but unfortunately there's no like I just
said, there's no magic solution. Can I have one followup for you? I just noticed the um the deduct deductible. We're looking at three plans here. Blue Care, Network Blue, and different flavors of Network Blue. I guess it's a
$250 deductible. Yes. Is that the same for individual and family? No, there it's capped at 750 per family. That seems like a I mean, based on my own plan, that's a very low deductible. Yeah. So, the municipal world is very
different than the private sector. Um, the municip the municipal world uses the GIC sort of as a benchmark plan. They have a $500 deductible that's capped at a,000 per
family with the exception of offering a high deductible health plan as an option. Most municipalities don't have deductibles that are higher than that, which again I know is drastically different than in the private sector.
There are statutes and you know collective bargaining issues and all of that within the municipal world, which means that the town can't just make decisions and implement them. I have a question um to the town
manager. We are pursuing a potentially reviewing a um high deductible plan next year. This is a one-year renewal that we're looking at this year. One year renewal. Yeah. Okay. I don't have any questions for you, Sue. Um other than, you know, I used to be on the PC and working with you, so I know, you know,
it's always been a pleasure and I appreciate your presentation. I wish it was better news, but I know it's not your fault that we are seeing this information. Thank you. I have a couple questions. uh as we look at these rates today uh what is the um I thought it was
70% uh municipal 30% employee but I just wanted to confirm what is the what percentage of this are the employees expected to pay I think it is 7030 right yep 70 uh I want to say I think it's 75 I
think it's 752 25 7525 right y yeah I thought it okay it wasn't ch I thought it was changed to 7030 but Okay. All right. It was 80. It was Well, I know it was reduced for Yeah. there initially. Yeah. And and then my next my next question is um you know in in the
case many people just have um you know one person you know plus spouse um and is can you just explain um how we landed with individual family and no individual plus one? Yes. That is the question of
the day. I think in my 38 years that's the most asked question. Um so basically your plan is going to cost the same regardless of how you divvy it up. So
again in the municipal world it's very uncommon to offer a three- tier rate which typically would be individual individual plus one and family. I know that that's very common in the private
sector, but because municipalities cover people forever, um it's not common. What that does is if you let's say that the cost of your plan is a million
dollars, it doesn't matter if you charge just individual family or you have a three- tier structure. The cost of that is still going to be a million dollars because the cost of your plan is based on your claims and the claims don't
change. So if you callull out the two person families out of that family rate and charge them a lower rate, it significantly bumps up the family rate.
The twoperson families tend to be older couples whose children are grown and off the plan because they're an older um age group. It they are higher risk.
They most likely have more claims. So, it doesn't necessarily make sense to charge them less money when they've already raised their family and their kids are now off the plan. In addition, and that's more
of an actuarial argument. In addition to that, my personal um thought is that it also opens up a can of worms because you could have a single parent with two
children working next to a two parent family with five children and then they're wondering why their family of three is is paying the same rate as a family of seven. But again, just in summary, it is I I
really don't know of any municipalities that do that for the initial reasons that I presented. All right. Thank you. I don't have any questions for you, Sue, but thank you for coming in. And Jen, I just wanted to ask if there's anything else that you'd
like to say. No. Um, I think that this kind of paints the picture of where we are and I think it it also kind of charts out that we have some work to do in this area over the course of next year alongside the PEC. Mr. Chair, I I'll close by saying that I
mean this is outside the scope of uh Sue and outside the scope of this board, but you know to see 15% increases $35,000 plans to get reduced life expectancy and near the lower end of the
the industrialized world, you know, is a wakeup call hopefully somewhere. I don't know how loud the bell has to ring, but again, the sustainability of this comes from that that algebra that that con that construct just doesn't work.
Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Sue, for coming in and giving us all this information. I appreciate all that you do for us. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a good night, Sue. Thank you. Thanks. Bye. Bye. All right. Up next, Marshall Park project presentation with Anita Shipers,
chair of the parks commission. I have to say, as a retired town manager, I found that conversation just bringing me back and I'm glad I'm not the one involved in it. Anyways, um I'm Anita Shipers. I'm the chairman of the parks
commission and um I appreciate a chance to come before you again tonight um to basically do a a repeat of the public information sessions that we've been doing um on on other dates and times get the information out about what we're
proposing for Marshall Park at town meeting. Um so if we could have the slides are they all set? Yep. Okay. Thank you. So there's just a little delay on that. Oh, okay. Good to know. Public access feed. That's why. So, okay. All right. Thanks. So, um,
basically the things I'd like to go over this evening, um, are why are we choosing Marshall Park for the improvements? We've been asked that question. Why Marshall Park versus some of the other parks that we have in town? So, we'll go through that. Um, what are we looking to get from this proposed
project? What are the deliverables that we'll be that we would be seeing if this project moves ahead? um very important is the um proposed project, the scope and the cost associated with that scope and then how do we pay for it. And then um number four, dotting our eyes and
crossing our tees. This is just um going over the various different grants that we would be eligible to apply for again for this project. Um and we've been asked quite a bit um by members of the um public, what are we thinking about maintenance costs? ongoing maintenance
costs are something that people really want to know about and rightly so. It's, you know, it is part of a project that you take on and um so if we could have the next slide, please. Okay. So, why Marshall Park? Um the current open space
and recreation plan um had a look at all recreational um assets that the town has. And um in looking at that they determined that Marshall Park definitely does not meet the current needs of our residents. Um that open space plan had
several goals and objectives but the key goal goal number one was to enhance and promote existing open space and recreation areas in the town. And the associated objective is to do a master plan that would do a restorment and enhancement of key recreation resources
that we have. And specific language in that open space plan said Marshall Park. This resource was once the centerpiece of Lunberg's recreation and civic activities. Today, it mostly serves as baseball and softball fields for a limited portion of the year and serves a
small segment of the town's population. Thoughtful and coordinated revitalization of this unique resource could meet many identified town needs. A master plan should be developed to guide the revitalization of Marshall Park to maximize its use. So that is why the
parks commission chose to move ahead to look at Marshall Park for improvements. In putting together the requested master plan, a vision was created in doing that. And that vision was to build a
park that meets today's needs, inspires tomorrow's possibilities, and honors the rich history of our town. To create a shared outdoor space connected with nature, history, and our town identity, where Lunberg residents of all ages and abilities come together for fun,
fitness, and community. And lastly, to create a community space that delivers the most value for the most residents that would support our schools and youth athletics while fostering friendships, new connections, good health, and good
times. So, in looking at the existing conditions of Marshall Park, for those who haven't been to the park recently, um there is a lot that needs to be done. Unfortunately, maintenance has not been done over the years. um as we've seen in
other assets that the town owns. But some key aspects in existing conditions are that there currently are no restroom facilities at Marshall Park and there are many games, many leagues, community groups uh that use the uh ball fields there and we have no restroom
facilities. We have older structures needing renovation or demolition um because of their age and the condition. Um, in the photographs you see um, one of the storage buildings that's there and you also see that old playground which I believe is 25 plus
years old which is rusting and really is becoming unsafe to use. Um, another big aspect of existing conditions is the lack of parking. Um, there is some parking off of Massav, but it's a basically a dirt lot that does not have
delineated spaces really that can only hold 35 to 40 cars. Um, and has no ADA compliant handicap parking there. And Chestnut Street has a limited pulloff area next to the 90 ft diamond. Um but
with the number of people that attend the games at the ball fields, um there is additional parking up and down Chestnut Street, which causes road congestion and causes concern um from the public safety community in terms of getting necessary access to the park or
even at times to get um emergency vehicles down Chestnut Street. Another another existing condition is unfortunately the drainage or lack thereof on the uh baseball diamond. Um the water table for the 90 ft diamond is
very high and I'm sure many of you know that when we've had any rain um that field is very wet to play on and to the degree that it even you know if we've had significant rain especially in the springtime when the school team is using
uh the field the most um we've had to reschedule games or practices because the field is just not able to be used because it's um of the level of water in the field. Um, no major renovations have been done by the town in over 25 years.
Um, the new items that you see on the park. Powell Field, which is the little league field um on the back side, um was built by donations and volunteer labor, as were the um the dugouts that are on
the 90oot diamond and the uh softball fields. Next, please. So what are we going to be getting from this project? Um next few slides we'll go over the specific benefits. Uh we'll talk about the master plan overview
versus the scope of work that we're proposing for this project. We'll look at the design, what's included and the phasing of the project and then just a a brief project background. So the specific benefits associated with this are um first one is to strengthen
our schools renovation um would provide upgraded baseball and softball fields with improved facilities for the middle and high school students. Um we would have fields that are um meet all necessary regulations. We would have restroom facilities. We would have um
pavilions for protection and weather. and we would have parking necessary for all of the um attendees and for the public that comes to view the games. We'd be supporting our youth sports with improved facilities for the youth ball league, offering a better environment
for the young athletes to play and grow. Now, the Powell Field, Little League field is not part of the project that we'll be moving ahead with or if if we um receive the necessary votes. Um but still they will be benefiting from the restroom facilities that will be be
built, the concession stand and the parking that will be established. This project would be um of maximum financial impact for the town. It would create a multigenerational multi-use space with just one investment benefiting all ages, all abilities in a
variety of different activities that we currently do not have. It would support senior health. We have safe walking paths that are smooth and for low impact exercise. We have um accessible parking and accessible restrooms. It would also provide a place
for young families with the playground in the pavilion, bathroom facilities, etc. Um it would be an inclusive place featuring universally accessible playground and picnic areas fostering outdoor fun and community connection. And then lastly, community itself.
building community space for community activities and pickle ball, basketball, excuse me, basketball and off- streetet walking. So, this slide shows the master plan that was developed as an outcome of the open space and recreation plan. That
original master plan called for a design that really incorporated the entire park. It called for improved parking on Chestnut Street, improved Massav parking off of Massav with a designated pedestrian access entrance, a basketball
court, three pickle ball courts, the pavilion area for concessions and shelter and new restroom facilities, the accessible playground, the new 90 ft diamond and a new softball field, walking paths, dog park, connection of
the main park area to Marshall Pond via a 4ft wide pathway that would lead to an overlook area on the southwest side of the pond. And there would also be Marshall Pond parking area with a picnic area and pond overlook. That was all what was included
in the master plan design. What we're proposing at town meeting is different. uh we're looking at exist at only the existing developed areas of Marshall Park for this proposed project. The
reason for that is that when we looked at the cost estimate for the full master plan design, the cost was just exorbitant and we knew that it was um at a level that just not could not be supported by the town. Uh so we you know went back to the drawing board so to speak and um looked to see what we could
do that would be still um provide a lot of new amenities for the town, meet the objectives of the open space and recreation plan and be what we felt would be a um something that the town could afford could put their support behind. So what this means is that the
dog park, the wetland trails, and the other improvements previously included in that full master plan are not included in this design scope that we're putting forward. However, the master plan is put together in such a way that um we still
have the ability to design improvements to those areas later on when the town wishes to take that on. the um design team that we're working with. Uh we have Ray Dunnuts from RDLA. Um he is our principal landscape
designer for the project. And as you've heard us all, many of us talk about before, municipalities are required for a project of this size to to hire a project manager, an owner's project manager. And we have hired um Scanska. We have Thomas Doolittle is our project
manager for this project. So this next slide shows the layout of the original master plan next to our proposed funding scope. And you can see on the original master plan or hopefully people can see um that on the
master plan the red lines along the wetland areas were the proposed walkways etc. which will not be included as is and as will not be the dog park. On the right hand side for our funding scope that we're putting forward a proposal
for um you'll see that the area that's involved is the left side of the park. If we look at those areas that we will be we have designed and that we're looking to put forward project for you'll see the lower area which is the
blue area um shows the new entrance off of Massav and it shows parking for I believe it's approximately 75 cars um in that blue area including the handicapped uh spaces. Um, also in that area is the
skate park, which we have been assured by the skate park organization that they're still moving ahead with that. They hope to get their construction done this summer. Um, so next to that would be the proposed basketball court and three pickle ball courts. Just above the
skate park would be the playground area. And then where you see that 2B and a pink dot, that is one of the that is the pavilion building that would have restrooms, a concession stand, and um shade or cover for
weather. The green area at the top of that are the two fields, the two ball fields. So where it says 2A at the top, that is the new 90 ft diamond that's being proposed. um it is reoriented uh
so that the um home plate is um toward the middle of the park rather than the outer edge and the just below that would be the improved softball field. Uh the Chestnut Street parking is at the top and that has I believe it's
approximately 45 spaces that would be included including handicap spaces that would be included in that parking off of Chestnut Street. There's also um that pink dot where you see the 2B, that is a separate restroom facility, just restrooms for that. That
would be located basically between the two ball fields. I think we can skip to park history. Yeah. Okay. Um, for those who are not aware, um, land for Marshall Park was acquired in 1913. And I've been told
that it was actually donated by a farmer whose last name was Marshall. We were wondering why it was called Marshall Park. So, um, years ago, the parks commission was designated to be the responsible entity uh, for the care, custody, and control of the park. And
you know, historically over the past decades, the use has focused on baseball and softball by high school athletes, youth ball leagues, and community adult leagues. So, I think it's it's helpful for people to understand how long the town has been working on trying to put
this Marshall Park project forward. Um, back in May of 21, town meeting approved $50,000 for that Marshall Park master plan that was um proposed by the open space and recreation plan. In early
22, landscape architecture firm Woola, the first firm hired, um, conducted a series of public meetings and surveys and sought extensive community feedback. Um, and they used that to determine what the town was looking for in an improved park. and that was the basis for
developing the master plan. In November of 22, town meeting approved an additional 184,000 for a master plan schematic design, which is um a slightly more detailed version of the master plan
document. In January of 23, the select board allocated a million dollars of ARPA funds for the project. We ended up not using all of that. someone back to other town departments for their use, but we did retain approximately $200,000
of those funds. In June of 23, uh the schematic design package from that original landscape landscape architecture firm was delivered to the town. And at that point, the town decided to move ahead with hiring the owner's project manager and the design
firm, RDLA, to start moving ahead with the full design of the project. In the fall of 24, the updated cost estimate on the schematic design was when we realized that that master plan project was too expensive for us to consider
moving ahead with. So during December 2024 and March 2025 this year, uh we developed a new implementation strategy and funding scope and developed um what you see today in terms of the um project we're putting forward. We feel this
still meets most of the master plan goals and as I said before it does allow the future development of the park to include those other wetland area improvements when the town decides to do so. So the next step would be um the town meeting and town election in May
for the funding. So what does the project cost and how are we going to pay for it? So just looking at the construction cost itself, our funding proposal and then take a look at the estimated tax impacts of what this project would
be. So for the cost for the proposed construction scope, many people know that a construction project has both soft cost and hard cost. Soft costs are typically those design fees or paying for the landscape architect. We're playing paying the fees for the owner's
project manager. Other soft costs include permitting that might be necessary outside of the town's area. Um D for example, that type of thing. It might be um bringing in utilities, making them uh available to um meet the
needs of the project. It would include materials testing and perhaps clerical expenses. So all of those soft costs for this project add up to $87,531. But we're trying to be conservative to make sure that what we asked town meeting for will give us enough to
actually move ahead with this project. We're adding a 5% contingency to the soft cost. And so the total for the soft cost would be $847,98. Then we have the hard costs. Hard costs are the direct construction related costs. So it would be the labor
and the materials to build what we're looking to do. So the um direct costs were $10,56,022. Then their general contractor costs including general conditions. They have some expenses for mobilization of the project, fencing
around the perimeter of the project, that type of thing. They're also required to have their own insuranceances and bonds during the term of the construction project. And there's escalation added into that. Escalation is an additional uh cushion of funds
that we put in to make sure that as we purchase the materials over time during the term of construction um that if there are any cost increases that we have the funds already built in to handle that. Basically, when you try to determine what a project is going to cost, you look at today's costs and then
you add escalation to make sure that you're looking at the future costs for when the project is completed. to the hard cost. We're also adding design contingencies. That's important because with every project, you always run into something that goes wrong. We might find we have some ledge or there might be
some other issue uh that we find that we need to make some adjustments in the design. So, we have money built in to pay for the design firm to make those changes if needed. So, we have in total the construction costs are 12,273,775. But again, to be
conservative, we're adding 5% to those hard costs. So that brings the hard cost total to 12,887,464. So if we take the soft cost added to the hard cost, that brings our project total to 13,735,372. So, in terms of how we fund this,
um, based on feedback that we received from the board last fall, um, and in consultation with our current and previous town managers, um, the park commission is proposing that this, um, be done through a debt exclusion borrowing. And for people listening to
this tonight, um, debt exclusion is borrowing that's done outside of the normal operating budget, outside the levy limit. Um, and doing a borrowing of this type requires that we need a two-third vote at the town meeting. And we also need a
majority vote at the ballot. There is a an associated question on the ballot for this. And that requires a majority vote of approval to move us ahead. So looking at the estimated tax impacts, uh we worked with town manager, the
town's finance director, the town's financial adviser and bond council to determine what would be the appropriate period of borrowing for a project like this and they go through an extensive review process to do that. Um it it looks at the useful life of all the different components and basically you
try to establish the borrowing for a project to meet the useful life of the project. So, we're not putting the cost of borrowing onto um a short period of time for limited users. We're looking to try to have that be spread over the useful life of the project. So, we are
looking at an 18-year amortization of the debt for the project. And looking at that amount, that 13 million that we were looking at for the project total over an 18-year period, that's roughly 46 cents per thousand to a home's
assessed value. So if we look at the example of what we call our average home in Lunenburgg, that's currently approximately $504,937. So the annual cost to that average home would be $231. If people want to understand what
it would mean to them for their own home, what you do is you would look at your tax bill, take the assessed value of their property, divide that by a,000, and then multiply that by46, and that would get you the amount that you would
have an additional amount annually on your tax bill if this project is approved. Now, with the project going forward, typically we start with doing some temporary borrowing. um until the project's completed and then we do a permanent borrowing. So the um $231
would be actually would be less than that for the first year or so. Um and then but once we start the full term of the permanent borrowing, it would be at that $231 for that average household. So the um going on to dotting our eyes
and crossing our tees. Um people may recall that when we were putting this project forward before when we thought it was going to be the full master plan version, we did apply for numerous grants. um the pri the members of the um
parks commission, including Karen Menard, who's here this evening, um worked very hard on writing those grant proposals, and we were successful in getting a $1 million um grant from the uh land and water conservation fund and
a $500,000 grant from the park grant program. Unfortunately, because we determined we could not move ahead with that full project and we did not have the uh funds available at that time to move ahead with the town's necessary matching funds, we had to let those
agencies know that we wouldn't be able to take the grants at that time. But we were very gratified to have them tell us that please apply again because they felt our project um scored very well and uh they would find it um they would be
very um glad to be able to work with us if possible. So looking at the grants that are available still, we still have the land and water conservation fund grant which is a maximum of $1 million.
Then we have the park grant which is um park acquisition and uh renovation for communities and that is up to $500,000. We also have the um Americans with Disabilities Act improvement grant which is up to
$250,000. Now I had said before that we previously received a mill million dollars for the land and water conservation fund grant and $500 for the park. We may not get that same amount when we apply this time. our scope has changed. That may make a difference in the awarding authority, but we do still
feel that we have a very good chance of getting grant funds. We previously did not receive any grant from the American Disabilities Act um program, but we definitely still plan to reapply for that. Other grants are out there, and
there's probably more uh that we will be looking at. Uh there's a Mass Trails grant that has up to $100,000 of award. There's the T-Mobile Hometown grant which has up to $50,000. We have um the AARP community challenge for
$25,000. And then there is a Mass MVP grant program which does not give a limit. Um and we're you know we'll be looking all all of those to determine if it's still feasible for us to apply for those at the time. So basically we're we are committed to apply uh for as many
grants as would be appropriate for this revised project. Um and as I mentioned before, we were urged by the grant administrators um to reapply for those two grants previously awarded. We were very pleased also to um be um told that there would be some assistance of a
professional grant writer to help the parks commission develop and submit the grants this time around. So then we come to park maintenance and um our facilities director uh Chris Ruth has put has worked with both the OPM and
the landscape design firm to determine um what the likely components of the materials etc would be for the park. And um based on that, he's put together a comprehensive maintenance plan um that will be used u moving forward to determine what the annual amounts might
be needed for for appropriate park maintenance. He's identified each one. Estimated costs have been assigned to each item. And you know, he will work with our town manager moving forward to um request that those funds, those identified funds um be placed in the
operating budget to the extent possible. Um the slide here just gives some examples of the current maintenance cost that we have specifically for Marshall Park. It's quite extensive. I do have to say, excuse me, the the amount the
$23,425. Um if Mr. Ruth were here this evening, he'd probably tell you that that is not adequate. That he wished we had more, you know, available to help with the maintenance of Marshall Park. And while these are not his words, they're mine. It feels like sometimes we
have to rob Peter to pay Paul to make sure that we get funds to do the different things that are needed, not only for Marshall Park, but other parks as well. But as you can see, he's taken that maintenance plan that he put together and he has estimated uh the worst case
scenario of what the annual cost might be uh for this. And um you know, he's identified the new items that would be such as bathroom cleaning, the storm water maintenance, fence maintenance, um the play structures and play surface
maintenance, that type of thing. When you see internet here, uh that would be because um they are planning to use um uh internetbased uh locking systems so that it would be much easier to make sure that all the buildings and
structures are secured. So that due diligence is being done for both you know looking for alternate funds to help um provide some relief to the tax impacts for our residents. um and we are doing our due diligence in terms of understanding what the maintenance for
this facility will be moving forward. So the project schedule, the phasing of this, if it moves ahead, um as soon as um we receive notice that the votes have passed, we would um work with the design team to prepare the final
design package and um permitting applications would start. We'd be preparing the bid packets and the bid process would begin basically in October and end with a bid award in mid to mid December. Um we would issue a notice to
proceed to the chosen contractor and we would um start to receive submitts from that contractor for the various materials that they choose to use in the park. The site work, however, would not begin until March of
2026. Um, we're hoping that March will be, you know, that weather will be on our side and we can begin as early as possible in March. And it's estimated that the site work, all the construction would be completed by the end of May in 2027. There's some post construction
activity, you know, contract closeout, punch lists. Um, we have warranties on any plantings that are done on the park, that type of thing. But for the most part, the project would be done in May of 27. So, the next steps are um the town
meeting vote that we require on May 3rd. Um, again, the this type of debt exclusion borrowing would require a twothirds vote at town meeting and it would require a majority uh vote of approval at the town election for that ballot question. And that's basically
the presentation. Thank you so much, Anita. You're welcome. We'll open it up to questions and comments from the board. Renee. Uh, thank you. So, you're welcome. The smaller project, I see it in the backups. Yeah, the hidden slide. Do you have the the
breakdown of the soft, hard costs and contingencies like you did for the full project? I do. I don't have it on a slide, but let me review that with you. So, at this point, what we're proposing is the larger project as I just described it to all of you. Um however,
the um parks commission did determine that if it appeared to be appropriate at town meeting based on the discussion that takes place on the town meeting floor, um a motion may be moved forward to um have the dollar amount be reduced and have a smaller project move forward
instead of what we're calling a full project. That smaller project um we're looking at $6,460,000 and I do have tax in all the contingencies and everything. Yes. Okay. Yep. And um as I you know as I described the tax impacts for that full project if
we do go with that smaller project again assuming an 18-year amortization that would be roughly 22 cents per thousand on a home's value. Okay. So the impact on that average household would be about $111. Okay. What impact does that have
on the grants in terms of eligibility for some of the grants you plan on applying for? Are you with the smaller projects still qualify or would you lose some grant opportunities? [Music]
Yep. I saw something about number of parking spaces in one of them. So I think that would Yep. The the park grant um did have specific concern about the number of parking spaces that were there. Um so with the smaller project uh we would likely still get some award um
but it would be a smaller value. the land and water conservation fund. Um that million-dollar grant that we had been awarded um had to do with the fact that a lot of that were the walkways around the wetland areas and um a lot of
the educational components that would have been included and under that full master plan design. Uh so again, you know, it doesn't mean we won't be eligible for the land and water conservation fund grant, but we would likely receive a smaller amount and we'd have to go back to the drawing board in
terms of working with somebody. So the last time we did the grants um and there's a whole rubric in scoring and we tried to piece everything together so that we'd get the highest score to qualify us for the highest amount of money, which we got on both of those
grants. we would be able to work with um whoever um is helping with the grants at that point to go through it and to tease some of the stuff out of it that may not have been included in the the first time around so that we we could apply for the
highest amount again. I'm not sure it's going to be the million dollars. I I can guarantee it probably wouldn't be the million dollars, but we're we we tried to word smith but it's also not a $13 million project. Correct. So correct. I'm I'm more I guess my question is more
are any grant opportunities just off the table that you know of that that you would no longer qualify for? Not that we'd no longer qualify for. Unfortunately, the one grant that we were planning to apply for was for a dog park from the Stanton Foundation and they no longer have that grant program.
Um so that's one that is offable but not not because of design. And the the only other one that I can think of was is one that we applied for and didn't get, which is the trails grant because that was another one that um was for the trails that went out to the wetland
area. Um I'm not sure we can how I don't know if we're going to have the creativity that we would need to be able to try to fit in a paved walkway for our trails grant. I don't think that would be covered. So, I'm not 100% sure we'd be able to apply for that one again. But the ADA grant we'd absolutely be able to
apply for again um park grant and land and water. Okay, those are the big ones. Those are the big ones definitely on those. Um and then to look into um some of the other ones and to be clear with people some of the reasons why we didn't apply for that T-Mobile one's been floating around for a bit. We just got
to first of all it was volunteers doing them and the volunteer being myself, Anna Lockwood, um and Anita did help with some of them. Time's not unlimited in our lives. So, we ran out of time. I know hard to hear, but um we ran out of time on those. But
also, as the estimates started to come back and we realized there was such that the change in the estimates, we knew we weren't going it didn't make any sense to continue to apply for grants that we weren't going to be able to utilize. Um my other question is I just want to make
sure I understand the maintenance costs, right? Is it more than double? Is that this is How do you want Go ahead. Sorry. I'll let you in. How do you want to look at it, though? I don't know. He said He said the 23,000 was not what he wanted. Is it 53,000? Is he shooting for the
stars or is that He's not shooting for the stars. So, here's what I'm going to say on that. Um, and I don't know if Jen has the numbers in front of her. Every year since Chris Ruth has started, he has asked for an increase in the parks line for maintenance every single year.
I want to say it's been $10,000 every single year. It is not enough. We know that. And in order to get us to where we are, he's saying we need $53,000. He could use $53,000 right now.
That's what I'm Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's one of those I call it the budget shuffle, the line item shuffle that he does. You know, the robbing Peter to pay Paul stuff that goes on when he's short on one area in parks. He's, you know, shuffles things around to make it work on the on the facilities
budget side. But So, you're planning on paving the parking lot in the winter time? It's not. Does it look like it Did I say paving? I meant plowing. Did I say paving? You said paving. God. Yes. Plowing. Plowing. Yes. Okay. I mean, the hope is that many aspects of the park
would be open still in the wintertime, you know, with some shoveling. You know, the the playground area should still be somewhat usable. Um, okay. The basketball court, pickle ball courts, you know, as long as we don't have extreme weather. Um, so I know somebody would be happy about that, not me.
Um, but I one thing I would like to say though is um and I think I mentioned it briefly when I was talking about the the new expenses. That's a worst case number. Um, we will not need fence repair every year. Um, we would not need, you know, um, major u drainage
maintenance every year. But, you know, because of all the questions we've had from people, we wanted to show that we really were looking at everything. And that is a worst case scenario. So, you know, the years that um we might not need that money for Marshall Park, it could go to, you know, the other parks
that have, you know, just as much of a financial need as well. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. I have no questions. Just Thank you. Thank you. I have a couple. Um, this one just came off of what um Rene was just saying, "Isn't it plowed
now?" During the winter, do we plow the parking lot now? It's not even paved. It's It's not. No, it's not. But I thought I thought it was accessible in the winter. There's actually in the winter there's the um there's a we'll call it a gate. There's the the road that goes across. Okay. Because I was obviously misremembering. Um two just
questions. Looking at the design, the restrooms that are in 2B, just the standalone restrooms, is that in the same location where the old restrooms used to be? No. No, it's um it would be on the lower lower level. Yes. Yes. One smoke. Well, so the um the restroom that
you're talking about is the the standalone one that's not part of the concession area. It's up where the old sept Yes, it is where the old in the similar area and it's where the septic tank was. A little bit lower. A little bit lower, but it's general same area.
It's It's in right field of the past the the gate in right field of the 90 foot diamond today. That's being proposed, I think. But that's a similar area to where it was. It's not it's not up on the hill where it used to be, right? The green building that they took down a few years ago. It's really not there. It's
because they're not using any of that existing structure or anything there. That's a whole new system going in. I mean, I know that building's gone, but yes. Um new. And then having worked on the worked at DPW and knowing people on Chestnut Street and the complaints about broken windows
and things with the baseballs is I don't know anything about baseball. I'm not going to try to pretend like I do. But is rotating this field making that problem better or worse? Yes, it is. Yes, it was the foul balls. Foul balls that was the problem. I can't pretend like I know. I just know that I
used to feel the the calls. So this is actually better. It is definitely better. Yes, that was it. Thank you. Thank you so much for the work on this. This was an excellent presentation. Uh as I finished developing the wonderful municipal building design committee, I
think the order of this is exactly similar to what we had discussed. But uh this was really good and thank you for all the work that's really you know years of this. A lot of phone calls, a lot of time um a lot of tears. A lot of tears. got a lot of tears. But, you know, certainly I think at the end
result of this is that we will all be a better community to have a resource like this within our own town. Uh, I think it will enhance um it will enhance the community at large. I think will enhance the lives of many residents. Um, and and really, I know it wasn't said too many times today, but um it's really the the
the multigenerational aspect of this where you have appeal across all ages. Um, you know, it's so important as we age to stay active and stay mobile and having this opportunity in the wintertime, in the fall, a safe place. You know, although we have beautiful
roads here, we know that uh the speed limits can be a little high, which I support by the way. Um, um, but it creates a safe space for people to come out and walk and get that fresh air and be a part of the environment, the natural sunlight on their skin. So, so
many good aspects of this and really leaning into I think uh who we are as a as a community where you know we we value our open spaces, we value nature, we value our agricultural roots. So, thank you for your work on this. Thank you. Thank you both so much. This was
very thorough and I want to thank all of the members of the parks commission both current and former for the years that went into this. Um, I agree and what I was going to say is pretty similar to uh what Michael Ray just said. Uh, we I think really need more shared community
spaces in town. For me personally, I'm obviously I'm in this building all the time. Uh, second to that is the library, but I think we really need more outdoor community spaces as well. I really love the conservation trails. I go there all the time, but that's kind of where I want to go when I just want to walk
alone in the woods. So, it's a very, you know, different experience. And Marshall Park is perfect for this. Um, I personally was very excited for the walking trails and I really wanted to be able to go there and park and get out and walk around and maybe walk around
the pond a little bit. I'm sad that we're not, you know, considering that right now. Maybe we'll get to it at some point. Um, but this is a really good first step. Obviously, um, you know, the the fields need to be fixed. Um, the parking is a real issue. I love that we
have the ADA playground in there, too. So, I'm really excited for this and I'm happily supporting it and I really hope that we see this um uh get supported and move forward this year. So, thank you both so much for being here and this presentation was great. So, thank you.
Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you guys. Have a good night. All right. What do we have next? town manager report. So, I have a very brief report this evening. Um the first item is that the House last week passed a
supplemental budget um for FY25 and included in that budget was $50,000 for Lunenburgg for educational materials programs or services occurred by the town of Lunenburgg. Um this so the thought of that is that it's going to be $50,000 for the Lunberg public schools.
That was the intent by those that had filed it. Um the sub budget now goes to ways and means. Um if it is not included on the ways and means side then that'll be discussed during the conference committee. So it has a few more steps to
go but um I did look at the bill and there looks like there was a lot of local funding included in this sub. Um the next update is not great news. So, um, Flatill Road Bridge, uh, the underwater inspection team did go out
and view, um, the bridge and there was a pretty significant um, pipe loss noted in areas that, uh, at the last inspection was not noted. Um so the district bridge engineer has said quote
given the documented deterioration including the newly observed section loss we are recommending that the structure remain closed. Um so that is unrelated to this this deterioration happened due to the
water flow. It is unrelated to the contractor that was there. But the fact that there's not project work ongoing right now doesn't make that an easier pill to swallow. Um so we will um be notifying the community that is
going to be remaining closed for the foreseeable future. Um I do have a call this week with legal counsel on the contractual issues. Um the work on the Eagle House kitchen is almost complete with only punchless
items remaining and um the Ritter building roof um had been delayed due to all the delays here with weather that we had on this roof. Um the contract is extended through uh April 30. I'll see if we have to do another contract extension for a month or if we can get
it done by then. uh recruitment. We had interviews today for the executive assistant to the town manager and select board position and there's interviews scheduled for tomorrow. Um the sewer business manager
offer pending um just of the background checks and we were able to that's the assistant, right? You said sewer business manager assist the part-time assistant. Okay. Um the we have found folks to staff our
our beaches. So we have both lifeguard and um and the uh water safety um the director um we found a way to get that person um trained for water safety instructor. So they are going to go and get trained and that's great. Um the
administrative assistant to conservation at 10 hours a week has been reposted and there is a recording clerk at 10 hours a week. It's a little bit more generic that's been posted. Definitely, if folks are listening to this and you have um an
interest in participating and getting paid to participate in your local government, those recording um secretary positions are vital to um the functionality of those uh boards. So, if you are interested, that would be great.
Um and the boarding committee vacancies uh remain the same. Um, I think that over the next week or so, we'll reach out to the folks that are on boards to see if they're interested in continuing on and maybe we'll have some more vacancies based on on that. But that
concludes my report. All right. Thank you, Jen. Any questions for the town manager? Yes. So, for the bridge, um, c can you just can you talk through this maybe in a little bit more detail? Um, and I I
understand that we may not have all all of it today. [Music] Um, is the read that we didn't that it wasn't properly scoped on the front end of this or that additional damage occurred in the course of construction?
Um, like how did we end up here? So, the the damage to the pipe, the additional loss of pipe is due to natural unrelated to the contract. It's due to the water flowing through the winter. It's it's just since the last
since the last inspection that is totally unrelated to the contractor. The contractor's um water control plan for actually doing the project does not appear to be
adequate. And so when they came out to do the work, um their plan that they had would not have worked to cordon off the area so that they could do it. So their suggestion was that they return in the
fall when the waters is lower and um that's where we are now. Um we don't agree with that suggestion to to wait until the fall. Okay. Thank you. Do you know when the last inspection was? I
believe it was prior to the winter. Okay. So, it wasn't like two years ago or something. No, it was it was relatively recent, but I can follow up with the to be sure, but I believe it was last fall. Any other questions? Um, well, it's more of a comment. Um, but it's a question,
too. I want to acknowledge, Jen, all of the work that you've been doing since you've um come here uh to our community. I know that jumping in into the new role, uh, it's a lot. It's a lot drinking through a fire hose for sure. So, I just want to be encouraging uh thank you publicly for the work you've
done and I think it's really important um especially u now to get a breather in before we head into uh town meeting. So, I know that you have uh some personal time this weekend, but I just want to encourage you to get a couple day breather before this next big kind of
push. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, Jen. All right, moving on to new business. The first is the letter of support for the establishment of a satellite emergency facility by UMass Memorial Health. Um, so this is a facility that
they have submitted to the DPH to build in Grten and I drafted this letter uh basically in support of it speaking to the need for more emergency services in our area. So the letter is under satellite emergency health and then the SEF letter of support and I'll just go
ahead and read it. Letter of support for UMass Memorial Health's proposed satellite emergency facility or SCEF at 490 Main Street in Groten. We, the Lunberg Select Board, write in strong support of UMass Memorial Health's proposal to open a
satellite emergency facility or SCE at 490 Main Street in Grten, Massachusetts. Since the closure of Nshoba Valley Medical Center, our region has experienced a significant reduction in access to emergency medical services. The absence of a local emergency facility has created a critical gap in
care, forcing residents to travel farther distances during times of medical crisis. In a rural region where time is often the difference between life and death, this lack of accessible emergency care is deeply concerning. Moreover, the closure of Noba Valley Medical Center has placed an increased
burden on our local EMS resources. Ambulance transports now frequently require longer travel and increased wait times, removing EMS resources from town for extended periods. This not only delays care for patients, but also diminishes our ability to respond
effectively to emergencies. The proposed satellite emergency facility in Grten would provide vital emergency services closer to home for our residents and ease the strain on local EMS resources. We believe the establishment of this facility is not only necessary but urgent. The people of Lunberg and the
broader region deserve timely access to emergency medical care and this satellite emergency facility would be an essential step toward restoring that access. We respectfully request the Department of Public Health to approve this project and thank US Memorial Health for their commitment to meeting the needs of our communities. Any feedback?
Yes. Um I think it's an excellent letter. Um, nonetheless, reading through what is actually getting proposed for this, um, satellite emergency facility, uh, as I read through it earlier today, and I mean, I thought they were kind of
careful in their wording here. Um, but it reads as if it's a stabilization facility, um, that there aren't actually any, um, operations that will occur, any kind of um, any kind of emergency. You
know, typically when you're as I you know, we think of levels of care, it becomes a basically an urgent care like center that does have some short-term bed capacity, but in terms of any kind of, you know, treatment that you would need at an actual hospital, um, this
isn't going to provide it. Um, it seems as if it's really just if you're nearby, we can stabilize you in route to a, you know, while you're going to Emerson or going to Worcester. And then, you know, because it's part of the UMass Health Alliance Clinton system, uh, and it
notes that, you know, it's in Groten, but, you know, stabilizing you until you get to Clinton, uh, or stabilizing until you get to Worcester. Um, so I mean, I definitely think, you know, sure, support it. Um, but in terms of like what is a satellite emergency facility
doing, uh, I think that the name of it sounds better than the reality of it. Um, and I don't know if our residents in Lunenburgg are going to benefit from going to Groten on the way to Emerson or or Clinton. I I don't see that as a direct real benefit to our residents. So
maybe I'm missing something and and if I can get some clarity on those points that would be helpful. No, I think you're right. But I mean I think it's still helpful to have this facility right next door. I mean for those sort of critical care situations. No, I I certainly still there's still a gap in emergency services in the area.
Absolutely. Um, but we need something to close that gap and I think this is that's something. Is it ideal? No, obviously not. We need more than that. But but I mean I guess you're right. You're right. I guess from like a a regional perspective um certainly. But
from the residents of Lunenburgg, um you know, are the residents of Lunberg going to be going to Grten to get stabilized on the way to Emerson or on the way to Worcester? I I don't know if the answer to that is yes. I would assume the answer to that is no.
Maybe. I can't really speak to that. So, well, I mean, my my comment is it's the opposite direction, right? Yeah. No, I I understand. Any other feedback? I think it's a a very well-ritten letter
that supports our position. I mean, again, you know, I we've written a lot of these letters lately. Yeah, I know. And again, I you know, I'll I'll I'll piggyback this on the health insurance.
I mean, thing. It's like, I mean, this there somebody's got to be able to do something like this. This is helpful. It's better than having nothing, but in no way replaces No Regional Hospital. And and I don't know, there seems to
fall on deaf ears everywhere. Yeah. And I don't know what the answer to that is, but hey, listen. We'll give somebody an emergency emergency place to go to for $35,000 a year in their insurance costs. I agree, Tom. Any other feedback? I think it's a good
letter. Yeah. Thank you. Happy to sign it, but I agree with what both of, you know, our colleagues have said. This is c certainly not not what we need but it will help us a little bit I guess right I completely agree with that
is the Mr. Mr. Chair, the expectation that this is the I know this has been a big push, a lot of meetings. I mean, you know, I think you know, a satellite emergency facility. I think as most people hear that term, I think they would think of it as a satellite emergency facility. Um, but the
description here is not a satellite. Maybe that's their language. I've never even heard this term. I haven't either. When I hear that, it is kind of what I expect, right? Can you go there for, you know, are they going to have beds if you need to be transferred to an intensive care unit? No, it's just that immediate
EMS response, right? I mean, they're not going to be conducting operations as you said. So, that's exactly what I sort of anticipated when I heard the term satellite emergency facility. Um, it appears to be somewhere between an urgent care and a full hospital with an
emergency room. Right. Right. So there I have a funny hunch that and and of course again I I I really don't want my comments to be negative but it's really hard in this field not to be.
People are saddled with emergency ambulance transport and it sounds like now they're going to get two of them because they're going to go there and if they can't do anything for them then they have to be transported again. So now they're gonna get two ambulances
right in the same possibly in the same day. They have life flight there too. It could be it could be an ambulance and then Yeah. So, I mean, and and it it's it's equally not helpful when the governor's, you know,
secretary of human services totally misrepresents why the hospital closed to begin with, indicating that they just didn't have the foot traffic and they didn't have the the the access, you know, the the the uh the the quote business. She didn't
use that word, but they didn't have the flow of patients in there to support it, which is not true at all. I mean, Steuart totally ran the thing into the ground so they couldn't do things and they got rid of staff. So, what happens when you get rid of staff? You can't accept patience. Oh, look at this. We
don't have enough patience. Well, that's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I wonder on the on our elected officials side, I certainly uh have tremendous respect for our entire delegation, but I wonder if you know our
letter of endorsement is co-signing that your work here is done. Um, thank you for getting a satellite emergency facility that won't benefit the residents of Lunberg too significantly, but are we signing off on this saying, "Thank you, job's done." Cuz I don't think that the job's done. I don't think
it would be interpreted that way, but I can understand why that would be a concern. What what I would and again, I only read it the one time when you read it, Mr. chair, but one thing me may want to add a paragraph that indicates that we do not believe this adequately
provides the health care services in the region, but we recognize that certainly having this is better than having nothing. Yeah, I I agree with you and after the conversation here, I kind of think that there's a gap uh in that letter. Um so we could definitely add
something. Um maybe in in this the uh second to last paragraph here, the proposed satellite emergency facility in Groten would provide vital emergency services closer to home for our residents and ease the strain on our local EMS resources. Uh we believe so
then probably right in here we could add something. Well, I mean I think that maybe that whole I mean or maybe just would provide vital emergency services closer to home for our residents. I don't know. Change that. I don't know if that actually captures what's what paragraph the second to last one. Second
to last. Okay. Certain I I would say I I this is my just one suggestion. Y in that I would say while we believe the proposed satellite and then the whole thing would ease the strain, we certainly don't
think it is it closes the gaps efficiently and more needs to be done. However, we believe the establishment is not only necessary but urgent. Okay. So, something of that nature, right? I like that. So, I put while we believe the proposed etc. And
then I get to and ease the strain on local EMS resources, we recognize that um there will continue to be um a gap in healthcare services in the region.
health care services in the region. um significant gap in significant it's not just a little right a significant gap in health care services in the region and then it'll go on this actually ties in pretty well believe the establishment of this
facility is not only necessary but actually and the sentence before then I mean emergency healthare would provide vital emergency services closer to home for our residents I don't know based on the description here if our residents going to graten on the way to Clinton or
Worcester if that is helpful. But it doesn't they don't always they're not it's not just a transport center. They still do some they still do things you know they have radiology they say complex things but they still you know if you have you know broken arm or you need sutures or there's things they can
they'll still do that would be different than what happens at limiter hospital. Can I suggest the word certain between provide and they wouldn't necessarily be at you can I can that just so it's some yeah holding facility yeah it's they provide some minimal level of care and
that's it's one level up from an urgent care and open 24 hours right right okay so let me just change this formatting let's fix that up all right so this is the paragraph now while we believe the proposed satellite emergency facility in Grten would provide certain
vital emergency services closer to home for our residents and ease the strain on our local EMS resources. We recognize that there will continue there will continue to be a significant gap in healthcare services in the region. We believe the establishment of this facility is not only necessary but
urgent. Do we want to change that last sentence to say something along the lines of you know the work isn't? So I would say I mean I would say something like even so I mean or something just something like that. Even so, comma, we've still we we still believe that the establishment of this is not only
necessary but urgent. Right. Okay. And I would, as you do that, I would modify the end of that last sentence where we say um healthc care services in the region and instead of saying in the region for our residents. Okay. For our residents. Okay.
Do you want to give this a final read or is this good? Yep. I'm fine with it. Okay. I thank you for writing it. Yeah, no problem. All right. Anything else? Thank you, Caesar. You're welcome. I think we've normally been putting votes on these.
So, is there a motion to accept the letter in its final form and then Well, I guess we're all signing it anyway, so we really don't even need to do that. I would move that we support the letter as read by the chair, read and edited by the chair for
the establishment of an satellite emergency facility by UMass Memorial in Grat. Second. Any additional discussion? Those in favor say I. I. I. Those opposed? No. Motion passes unanimously. All right.
Thank you very much. Moving on. What's next? Discussion on sick leave bank policy. So, we voted on this at special town meeting, but the way that we voted on it and put it in the SAP, we had to have a policy and Julie, our HR director, has drafted that policy and it
is now ready for our review. So, yeah, Jen, do you want to say anything about it before we uh dig in here? Uh, I can walk the board through it or you can just start and dig in, whichever you Okay, we might as well just dig in because we're going to have to go through it all anyway. I have a
question, just a technical question. Sure. So on the iPad, what's the easiest way to go back when you're once you're in a document? I don't iPad. Okay. The back we're back arrow. We're relegating Michael Ray's it at the top. At the top
Michael Ray at the top. The back arrow. Got it. So just hit the like a browser. Just hit the back button. Go back. And unless it's a document like this, then you have might have an X. So it depends. So I keep going into things and I'm like, okay, how do I exit? Well, no. I mean, I see the exit button when there's
there, but it's, you know, I wasn't sure if I was going to get out of it, and one time I went too far back, thus I was like, is there a certain way to do this that I'm missing? Yeah. No, it's just the back button. All right. So, we'll read through it. Purpose: The policy establishes a sick leave bank program known as the program
to assist eligible employees during medical emergencies as required by the vote taken at the November 12th, 2024 special town meeting. Program eligibility. One, all employees, non-union and members of bargaining units are eligible to
participate in the program. Employees in a classification of intermittent or seasonal are not eligible to participate in the program. I'm just going to just stop if you have anything that Well, the f the first thing I I do have things and this is I'm I'm going to raise this also
with the next one the next policy which which is both of these are being open to all employees but they're both in the SAP which isn't applicable to all employees. So I have a
problem just inconsistency and application on that and one would think living in the SAP excuse me is this policy going no no this is going to be our select policies so it could it can apply to union
personnel I mean but we're fulfilling something that has to be in there and I thought it was again there was no indication well there was an indicica there was at least the in there it was the implication that it would be part of the SAP.
My understanding, Mr. Chairman, through you is that the that the intent was always to apply especially merit, but I I'm not so clear on cichly VA, but was always to apply it
to all employees and and that why it went into the SAP to begin with. I can't answer that question. I I think it could have possibly been a standalone policy, but that's my point. Right. Right. So
that that this is to kind of if the if indeed the intent at special town meeting was to apply it across outside of the SAP across all employees, the policies accomplish that
goal. If that was not the intent that those were to apply, then I have a misunderstanding and perhaps we need to refly to all employees regardless. I mean, that's my position. I don't know what Carter's intent was when he, you
know, created the warrant articles for the SAP in particular, but I don't know, that's where I'm at. What we approved though, I mean, which is the other document that's in here that we approved at the town meeting. I mean, it says a sick leaf bank shall be established. Mhm. no later than June 30th, 2025 for
all employees except those in a classification of intermittent or seasonal. And uh I I hear what um Mr. Lonzo saying in in that, you know, when you're putting it into SAP, all employees means all SAP employees and that it doesn't mean all employees. Um
and that, you know, as a condition of collective bargaining, you know, the ability to have a sick bank is a is part of bargaining. Um and so you know it's rather proactive for us to say here's our policy because it eliminates that for being a point of discussion or
negotiation for the collective but maybe it just represents what we want to happen and says doesn't matter we're not going to negotiate this this is what we're willing to offer. Um yeah I mean my my point of this was first of all I to it the intent we
didn't get a lot of opportunity to talk about the intent of this this was done whirlwind I objected to it being whirlwind then I object to it still the way it was done because it has these kind of implications now before in my last three weeks here uh before I get hate mail from everybody else in the
unions I'm not against the policy okay I just think policies need to I mean They all intertwine. They touch each other. They they move each other. And they, you know, to just throw out something and say, "Oh, oh, we meant this for SAP. We talked on it at SAP and now we're going
to open up to everybody." I'm like, "Okay, is that what the intent was?" I don't know what the intent was. Yeah, understood. So, I mean, would do you want it to just apply to SAP? Is that what you're saying, Michael Ray and Tom? I'm not saying to limit it there.
I'm saying well first of all we we have time to look at this so obviously we can talk about it I have other things about the sick bay polic this sick day bank policy but I mean I'm not saying that I'm just I'm it's it's a cautionary tale
that you know we we need to be more thoughtful and everything that requires thoughtfulness requires time and we always run into a time issue and it's really probably one of biggest frustrations in my whole tenure is being
that it's it's it's gotten worse over the last four years or so and that's because lots of different reasons, but you know, we really need to be methodical. Mhm. Yeah. Uh Mr. Chair, my opinion is I I think that the reason why people unionize is because their
employers aren't meeting their needs um a lot of the times, right? I mean, you know, we or companies are very successful like the large corporations in the United States, you know, Facebook or, you know, Tesla and all of them at being able to make sure they just keep hiring young people and firing everybody
so that way they can't unionize. Um, but nonetheless, I think that it I would like for us as a board to say across just like I think we should do this with vacation and leave is say this is what our basic benefit package is and it applies to everyone equally. um and and
that we take a hard stance on what that basic package is to equalize it and I think sick bank uh should be one of those examples of that where to me this should be apply to all um but maybe there may be some nuances here uh that
may be different for the SAP employees aren't applicable to the bard so we'll go through it right no I agree I agree okay we can be mindful of it all right so where did I leave off so okay Two, employees become eligible for a program
participation after they have been employed by the town of Lunberg for a minimum of one year in a benefit eligible position. I have a question and maybe I'm just too tired to to think straight, but looking at the
the article from the annual or special town meeting Mhm. in B, it says new employees having completed the six months waiting period shall be credited. Is that that's a separate section? Yeah, it's only the highlighted bold italic italics. That's
all that was in the article. What is highlighted in the in the word document the uh sick leave? No, go back. So, you want to look under 70-20-1 sick leave bank. There's one paragraph under that. When you look
under that, you see personal leave. That's a different section. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it's a different section. Okay. What's that sound? I don't know what that sound is. Sounds like a alarm. Do you mind if I just go check? Go ahead. It's gone. Did it just stop? It just stopped. All right. Okay. Okay. He's
okay. For the public, there's some sort of alarm going off here, but it has stopped. Okay. Um All right. Three. And we have two options here, it looks like. So the first one, employees who become eligible for the program must enroll in the program within one month of becoming
eligible. Otherwise, they are not eligible to enroll until the following program open enrollment period that occurs in June of each year. So this is pretty much open enrollment each year and you have the option to enroll once during that period each year or
employees who become eligible for the program must enroll in the program within one month of becoming eligible. If an employee chooses not to enroll in the program, they may not enroll at a later date. So, I just want to be clear. The intent of that second one is to say once you become in once you become
eligible, you have one month to sign up and if you don't, you never can. Am I reading what it sounds like? Mhm. That sounds pretty draconian. Yeah, I don't like that at all. No, I like having the annual like open enrollment period like everything else. Why Why is are these just provided for us to
have the have the options to look at? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I also don't I mean I I guess I could see the intent you know if someone never you know was an employee for 10 years and never participated and then they get sick and then they want to use it. I get it.
Yeah. But I don't I don't I like the option of saying hey maybe you know life circumstances change you know you can sort of reassess whether you need it each year just like any other kind of Yeah. It's one thing. What I would what I I don't know if it comes up again cuz
I only read it briefly today before the meeting, you know, this morning. I think if somebody decides to disenroll, there should be a lapse that you can't go back in for like 3 years. Like if you're going to come out, then
you can't come back. You can't go in and out. This is not not a revolving door. Sure, I can understand saying, "Hey, I don't need it." And some point you need it. But if you enroll and then you disenroll, then you can't enroll for x amount of time. As it is currently
drafted, you cannot unenroll. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's also another thing problematic. Yeah. Okay. But I also would be say this is clearly not my area of expertise and by profession or any
other way and I don't have any other template to go by and that's if there if if this was based on something or maybe several sick bank I mean it would be nice to see what other people do. Okay. Yeah, I was curious about that too actually.
Yeah, I've seen gross abuse of sick bank where you hire an employee, you know, and I'm aware of a situation currently that's like this without going into the details where you hire an employee and some people just want to game the system. And when you have that unlimited sick bank because everyone's been
donating to it, you're kind of stuck um in many ways where you have an employee that's out far longer than they ever were in. Uh, and anyway, I don't I'm not I don't think our employees are really at risk um of of doing that. I don't have a problem with the uh second option
of them not being able to uh uh and you know, it's a one-time thing, but at the same time, you know, I can hear my colleagues on this one. Strongly opposed to that personally. Yeah. Uh it doesn't make sense for you know, in the first month of someone's employment, like there's a lot going on. It's it's the uh
13th month. You have to be going back to part two here. You have to be a full year in a benefit eligible position. Will they get some sort of a notification or something from the benefits person? Well, so it goes on to say that bank committee is responsible. Yeah. Yeah. And that Yeah. Okay. So,
let's go on. We'll we'll talk question. Not saying you should. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So, for enrollment in the program shall be voluntary. Okay. Moving on to program design. One, the sick leave bank committee shall notify employees that become eligible for the program that the employee has become eligible for membership in the program and the
deadline for enrollment. So that answers Amanda's question. Can I stop you before you keep going though right away? Structurally, shouldn't the definitions be before this? Because I was going to say move this. We've moved the committee. My first question was who's the committee? And I know it's the next section, but same definition should
always be before we use the word. Yeah. So, do we want to keep going or do we want to jump down to talk about the definition of the sickly bank committee? I'd like to just read it as presented if that's okay. What do you mean? Review it as presented. Like just keep going. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right.
So, two, upon enrollment, each member of the program shall contribute two sick days to the sick leave bank. Each member of the program shall contribute two days to the bank at the beginning of the following fiscal year. Thereafter, members shall contribute one day at the beginning of each fiscal year until such
time as the bank has accumulated at least 300 days. If the bank should drop below 50 days, the sick leave bank committee will assess each member of the bank 2 days annually until the bank reaches back up to 300 days. So, that's a lot to process right there.
Any initial reactions to that? I'm going to have to read through that like a couple more times. Okay. So if you hit 300 and I want to enroll, I don't put any days in because you've hit 300 in the bank. No, first
enrollment if you're coming in, even if we're at 315, you're giving two the first year, two the second year, but then you don't have to then it stops. So the two and two is for everybody for the first year, even if it's over 300 because you're new into the program. Anybody new
automatically has to give two days. Yeah. Two two days for two years. So it's the ann it's the annual renewal days that you don't have to do. But it sounds like if you have questions about that that we should have some clarifying language here. Yeah. Yeah. I read that
as exactly what you just said that if a new member joins and if it's at 300 that's the cap. So it sounds like they're putting too much in one paragraph. They need to split that up. Yeah. All new members will be giving that regardless of the then go to the
next part. something. Is there anything special about 300 days? Why was that number picked? Is there any from another policy? It's from another policy. Another sickly bank policy. It's what? It's from another community's policy. That's interesting. Okay. Three. Sick day contributions to
the bank are non- returnturnable. An election to participate in the program is irrevocable. I do not agree with that. I don't agree with that. I think I agree with non- returnturnable. I don't think you get your time out. Sure. But if you want to choose to stop participating, I think
it's you should be able to come out of the but I do like the idea of if you decide to leave the program, you can't get back in for like years. Three years or something. Yep. Yeah. I do like some kind of because you don't want people doing the hokeyp pokey. I'm because if
if you can't get your time back and say you withdraw and then the next year because if I know I'm going to go I know I'm planning an operation one year. I'm going to plan it so I'm in so that I can get extra days. But use the bank instead of my own days. So you're using the bank as Michael Ray said to to gain, you
know, to kind of gain the system. But that could still happen no matter what. Well, no. No. When not if you penalize people for not getting in. So you're not in good. If you're once you're in, if you decide to come out, then you can't join it for another 3 years. But that raises another question. Do you have to
use your own sick time before you can take it from the bank? Well, soon. Okay. Yeah. Is that in here? Yeah. Okay. Obviously, I haven't read this. Yeah. So, on this one, I mean, I don't have a problem with the irrevocable, but it sounds like everyone else does. So, I mean, I agree that how how do we work?
You're just making a note and Julia makes some modifications that will do personal is three is three. I think three years is fair. Yeah. That way you don't get the in and out or you you don't get the gaming of the system. Um or you know I mean obviously our employees aren't here to game the
system. Um but you know when when it's possible uh so I think it three years sounds years. Yeah I'm I'm fine with that. Okay. Unused sick days shall remain in the bank at the end of each fiscal year and shall continue to accumulate from
year to year. I just to clarify that because of the language it doesn't when you say unused sick days you don't know if you're talking about the persons the members or the bank. You should say the bank. So unused bank sick days shall remain in the bank. Otherwise people
think, oh, if I didn't use it, those all go in the bank. Yeah. How is this going to work? Is it days or is it hours? And how does that whole does that get broken out later in year? Cuz I know No, it doesn't get broken out. That is a very difficult thing to deal with benefit-wise. At least it has been
historically. Okay. um with people that are prrated and like someone that works 32 hours might only have their sick day is actually 6 hours but somebody else's it is eight hours. So I don't know if that has been talked through with Nancy on her. No no no. So this is I'm going to share this with all staff to get
their feedback. So that's a good point though. Um what's a day? What's a day? Cuz some bargaining units have days, some have hours. Well I think a day is based on their regularly scheduled hours, right? I mean, so long as paywise and if you're talking about 32, not 40,
somebody at a different rate or a different amount of hours, their day contributions because of that, I think it should be by hours. That means if somebody's full-time and they only work sixhour days and their their sick day is six hours, they should donate six hours. It's a complicated issue because then what happens on the Ritter when they
work their 10-hour days, it's a it's a more complicated I don't know what the solution to that is, right? But whether it's days or hours, I think does matter. Part of my reasoning, and I think this is going to extend beyond my tenure here, but one of my reasonings would be
I'd like to hear from the person administrating the program because we can't have people like spend oodles of hours, right, just to make sure this program works. So, I'm willing to simplify to some degree of what makes it
just easier to run, right? Yeah. Uh where did I leave off? Okay. Five. Applications for enrollment in the program shall be in writing on a form approved by the sickle bank committee. Speaking of the sickle bank committee, the program shall be
administered by the sickle bank committee committee. At a minimum, the committee shall be comprised of one member of the select board, the town manager or the assistant town manager/HR director, one representative of the non-UN employees, and one representative
from each participating collective bargaining. oop you just the committee shall not be considered a quote public body and is therefore exempt from the requirements of the open meeting law that's a big committee yeah it is I
don't know how many how many bargaining units do we have like six in town something like that it's not so not school so uh clarifi four four yeah only four okay all right so less than I thought sorry
I mean I don't know enough on the um I mean I've read a lot on the uh when you can go into executive session um but it sounds like you know most anytime you're talking about anything personal with an employee that's not a public conversation. Well right and so I want
to run this by council. I don't think that this is a public body um because it's something that I you could say that I administer the bank or that Julie administers the bank and that we could do that solely within
our capacity. And so delegating that out and having people uh or or having people give feedback to that I think is going to make it not a public body because the decision-m could have lied with just us. Like the PUC is not a public body, right? No. And that's what I compare it
to, right? It's kind of similar to So, I just want to verify that with council. I agree. I'm for it. I'm for the language as long as it's because Can we add something that if a union decides not to have a representative come? You know, is there something that we can do that this
committee could still function if there is not an active member from each body? Hopefully, there will be. Oh, so something about quorum. basically the or representation. Yeah. Like what if a union decides not to have a member of representative that was the quorum part
that was an issue that we had with PDC previously. Um I don't I wouldn't want this to be held up because oh hey you know the clerical union doesn't have a member. I don't know. So would we just be defining a number because it's not a public body. I don't think I don't think you need it's a non-issue. Maybe are
schools included in No, they have their own something, right? So, what's typical of sick leave banks, right, is that each collective bargaining unit would have their own bank. That's how I've seen it. And that
they're really segregated separately. Yeah. Um, so this is a little bit different, right? Um, with there being one pool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how the Is that better or worse? There it goes again. I don't know if the I don't know
if the unions would object to this or not because again and we are going to get that feedback soon too. So, we'll have that and if it's you know opening that many people I mean 300 hours now becomes too low. I think it's 300. 300. Yeah. Is it
300 hours or 300 days? 300 days. That's all almost a year. Yeah. Except when you have somebody with Yeah. major people with cancer. Well, there should be limits on, you know, I think there should be limits on days. Maybe we could Have we only seen one other policy? I
don't know. No, but I put a note that we should analyze. Yeah, maybe. Maybe if we have a couple other ones we can look at and then size of the town compared to that number. Yeah, good idea. Because I have no frame of reference for like same. Yeah, that was especially if we convert days to hours because I don't I mean 300 days and hours is going to be
some right cuz the cuz the problem I think again just logistically that you run into is you know for some reason it's down. There's been a lot of people out and there's 50 days left or like that trigger point and there's less than 50 days left and then one person goes
out with a critical problem and then somebody else after them does and what do you do when the bank like is there a policy? What happens when the bank is zero? Yeah. Depleted. Can we Is there I don't think I saw it unless I missed it cuz I did just scan this quickly. Is there something in there where people can do additional donations in that
situation? Cuz if not, can we add that? Mhm. We can add that situation in town when we didn't have this before and there was someone, you know, that needed it. There was there's tons of people that have a lot of time that often want to donate more. So, if we could add something about a
voluntary, right, donation, and there's got to be something that says, "What happens if somebody applies and there's no days?" Mh. Then they're going to say, "Well, what did I donate all of this for?" and now I can't even use it. So, there's this is a I think a serious
problem. Okay. All right. So, moving on. So two, the committee shall elect a chair, vice chair, and clerk to preside over and keep records of committee meetings. Does the PC do that as well?
Yeah. Do they have a chair? They have a chair and they keep records of their meetings. Yeah. I mean, it's not formal minutes because it's not, right? It's not minutes, but it's records. Yeah. Just just curious. Um, that's right. I knew there was a chair. Uh so the committee shall establish forms for application to participate in the
program to receive benefits from the program and any other forms necessary for administration of the program. The committee shall be authorized to approve or disapprove applications for enrollment and for receipt of benefits. Well, if that if somebody's going to be doing that, there better be some criteria about what they're doing this
other than I like you. I don't like you. Why is it not really only if they're not eligible that for app for membership that they would if somebody so I think it should say that okay it should be more clear because that could be there should be no reason if you're a full-time employee and you meet the requirements of the policy that you
don't get denied yeah I agree and if there is a reason that we want to put out there then we need to say you know if so just say based on based on enrollment policy on there at the end of that sentence and do we really want the committee to be doing that or is it
somebody has to somebody has to administer it, right? So, it's fine. I ask why we have a committee versus it's really for the for the committee comes into play when you're making the decisions around whether to grant bank time and the different how you're really
evaluating what the request is, what the bank looks like. It is discretionary to an extent when it comes to whether or not you're going to grant bank timeout and it does allow for more people to be a part of that. It allows for representation for SAP collective bargaining units to be a part of that
too. So then I think we do need to have a quorum listed if if there's going to be a vote like that on whether things are approved if you don't have active membership. Yeah, that's a good point actually. Yeah, you don't want like two people being there at the meeting. So there's there's got to be something if this is how it's being approved and it's
not just which it should be. I get there needs to be a vetting process then I think that we need to have it that more delineated. Yeah. Especially for um determinations there should be a voting quorum. Okay. And I think that we should say how
they're going to approve or disapprove. Right now it just says they're authorized to approve or disapprove applications. It's quite discretionary typically. Is that usually how these are? I again I'm not that familiar with it. I think sick leave banks are generally air on the side of generous.
But I meant more on like the process like how does one app you mean like Yeah. Like like not not not talking about like what the qualifying medical concerns are more like okay if you want to apply for the sick bank what do you do? Who do you reach out to? Yeah. So
that's what the committee has to come up with. They're being charged with coming up with all those forms criteria. Yeah. So I think it's all the forms. Um but basically showing where your where your benefit time is at currently right so what are your acules what have you lot
what have you already used towards whatever the situation is and what is the circumstances see I think we need to include that in this policy at least the basics of it personally maybe I'm overthinking it I think for three I mean I think I think the way you know is that you have the committee they can
establish the rules uh and I think where we have the language committee shall establish forms um for application. I think we should say show establish rules. See, I just completely for application and then just say not inconsistent with this policy. But Amanda is saying that we should establish I'm opposite. I think they can
if they want to if I think giving them the ability to create their forms or whatever they however they want to they want to implement it, but I think this policy should include the rules. Yeah. Well, this is and this is where this is where involving unions is going to do things. So if they
don't dis if they disagree there's like who they complain of the union it's not part of the union contract so who do they complain to right this I think this if this needs to be really clear in my opinion I don't think we should give that committee the power to make the rules over it the practical application is
that there will still be some discretion that the committee has in in applying the rules I I don't have any problem with the committee making the rules I have a problem with the what do you do if you're on the committee and you're representing union employees and they
that that's something they something's happening that you don't like then there's no there's no grievance procedure right what what is the grievance procedure is right and that that gets that that would be really complicated I mean again it's one of these things
that it's it's a great idea but how to implement it is going to be it sounds easier than it is right okay if maybe if we do have some other policies that we got to look at. Um, and I can look at my own, too, cuz I really haven't
looked besides this one. Um, I wonder if there are any other towns that do have some sort of a grievance procedure or an appeal procedure to the to I don't know who it would be, too. Yeah, maybe we can we can see. And you picked so and so over me. You gave so and so days. That's
what And I have a similar condition. I didn't get days. Y. All right. So, we can look into that more and continue talking about that. As an aside, I am very in support of this. I just want to make sure it is. I know you are. It has to think it does have to be done right. This has to be
done correctly. Where did we land as a majority on the rules in terms of delegating that? Are you keeping it or where where do we I don't know if I have a strong opinion on it now. I want to think about it a little more. I think there's some benefit to having them in the policy itself so that we can kind of
dictate what they are. I want to see some more because I could I could go review some other policies and be like, "Oh, no. I was wrong. This is just the off the cuff." And I can't even come up with rules right now without And the word rules is like it's not that doesn't even feel like the right word. I have to think about it a little more. Yeah. Yeah. I don't Yeah. So, I'll think about
it a little more and I'm sure that the rest of us uh can do that as well. Okay. Five. Any information provided to the committee shall be held in strictest strictest confidence by the members of the committee. All records of the committee shall be kept on file in the office of the assistant town manager/HR
director at town hall. I would say that we have to be way more specific in that language that has to has to be compliant with all federal and state rules including and we better come out with a list of like HIPPA and this and that and
whatever kind of list we have. Not that oh you got to keep it in the strictest confidence I don't think is a legal term. Right. Yeah. I completely agree. We want compliance. Yep. Okay. I would have town council weigh on on that too. Absolutely. For sure.
Not even weigh Not even weigh it. I I would have town council right into Yeah. draft that part. Yeah, that's fair. Okay. Six. The committee shall be required to provide an annual accounting of the sickle bank program in July of each year to the select board and the personnel committee. At a minimum, this
accounting shall include the number of members, the number of days remaining in the sick leave bank as of June 30th, and the number of hours/days distributed in the previous fiscal year. Mhm. I'm fine with that. Okay. Seven, the committee shall advertise and hold
an open enrollment period in June for each year for employees that are eligible for the program but have not yet enrolled. Sounds good. Okay, moving on to benefits and benefit eligibility. One, to be eligible to use program benefits, the applicant must
have been a member of the program for a minimum of 6 months and have exhausted their own accumulated sick, vacation, personal, and any other paid leave. I think that's fair except that we're going to have a conflict. I just saw it in two sentences, so keep going. Oh,
okay. An internal conflict. Okay. Two, members who are receiving workers compensation benefits for lost time are not eligible for benefits under the program. Makes sense. That's fair as well. Three, an application for program benefits must be submitted to the chair
of the committee on a form provided by the committee. Applications may be submitted prior to exhaustion of sick, vacation, personal, and any other paid leave. So, that's where we have that internal Yeah, I don't know if I can understand. Yeah, I don't see you
anticipation. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. It's anticipating that you're I'm going to have surgery. I'm going to be out, you know, 6 weeks. I only have 2 weeks of paid leave left, right? Yeah. It gives you time to put in the if it's a plan, an event that you can kind of schedule
and plan for if it's an emergency. Okay. Because in three, it just says applications may be submitted prior, right? So, I think that's okay. Okay. Can I ask a question? And maybe I shouldn't even ask it, but sh
when it's so complicated when you're talking about people's medical issues and obviously sick leave is a medical thing. Um like pregnancies like birthing is that something that's even considered in part of this or or this would be so this is just anything that someone had to be out they could apply for. So we we wouldn't be putting any sort of language
in here in terms of what you would have to be out for. No, it wouldn't have to be like a serious and then define serious mental condition. It's really I mean if you I mean is that common common for this? No, typically this is this is this is heart attacks, cancer, right? So, but like is that not you that
language not in here for like a serious medical you know something or is is it the way we have this written how these are usually written? I could you say that again? I I didn't follow that last point is if in looking at other policies on how sick banks are are done is there any delineation of
saying like you know these are for these reasons these are for e reason you know I don't know if I would want to list out all the eligible reasons it's not typical it's not typical it's just the sick leave bank is typical I say anything you could use your own sick leave sick leave for that you could use it for and that's why going back to our
prior conversation like there is a benefit to having the discretion of the committee for that reason right because I know you listed pregnancy as you know still I know someone who's in the ICU for 2 months because of a pregnancy so you know sometimes you know right so be you know a normal procedure ends up not
being it's also I mean the word sickly really should be really modified it's really sick/med leave almost every company at least in the private sector does that it's sick and medical leave I mean a normal pregnancy isn't sickness no it's just I mean you have medical
leave because you have recovery time not because you're sick Pregnancy is a sickness or because there are really bad complications. Well, that is sickness. That is a sickness, but I mean, even a normal pregnancy is not a sickness, but you still need medical leave because you need recovery. I think I'm mostly thinking of situations where
we're talking about parental leave, and this might not make me super popular among everyone, but people that are going out on leave, I don't even know if I want to finish that sentence. For not the birthday, that are not Yeah. for adoption. not
sick or not like is this for a medical condition or is this for anything that you could use sickly? I guess that really is a fundamental thing. Is this anything that you could use sickly for? It should be that in my mind there should be anything you can use your current sick/med days for. You can use
the bank for Does does that include taking care of where I was going with that cuz like paid family medical leave the private sector, right? You can use it. That's 12 weeks for each birthing parent. I think that's exactly what right that is where I'm going we're driving. Maybe there
needs to be an exemption here that if someone is eligible otherwise eligible for uh paid family medical leave act um we don't participate in it fully on the state on I'm not saying I I I think we have something in here that it's about the employees own sickness and I just
want to benefit eligibility. I I think that it doesn't I think it specifically doesn't apply to non-birthing parents. Um I just I wouldn't want to put that burden on the committee to say like okay you know you're not the birthing parent
and so you you do or you don't it's in number four. It's in number four. Okay. And that's the next one too. So we can All right. We'll just read that. So for to be eligible for program benefits, the applicant must have a medical condition verified and documented by a physician
which requires a prolonged period of recuperation and/or absence from work resulting in the exhaustion of all earned sick, vacation, personal or any other paid leave. I think that's so this answers the question. Yeah. So this is this is so this does not mean for any use of your sick time because right now
you can use sick time to care for your children, your parents, your but if we I mean think that one through, right? I mean let's let's take any employee whose spouse just had a has a stroke. I mean you know I mean they're going to need
how well are they going to be able to work for us if they don't have the care for their loved one at home? I mean why why wouldn't we make it eligible for those situations? cuz I mean it's not going to be forever, but it's it it here's here's the scenario that somebody
always brings up. You're a single parent. Yeah. And your child gets really sick. Mhm. So are you because it's not me sick. I can't use my sick time. I can't use the sick bay to care for my sick child because I have no more time left or I'm going to exhaust it because
what they have is going to be lengthy. M I think I would like to know from employees um if that would change their participation in the program one way or another. You may have employees saying I'm not giving as much as I feel bad for you and I might send you a casserole or
help you out. I'm not going to give up my day for not you. Right. Yeah. I think that's a good way to approach this is to talk to the employees to see how they would Okay. if if they're the participating members and if it's an overwhelming yes or an overwhelming no, then maybe we maybe it makes a decision
for us. So, are municipal employees eligible for paid family medical leave? I didn't think so. Okay. You would have to um adopt it. And as far that last count that I knew, zero municipalities have adopted it in the Commonwealth because of the cost. Because of the cost
and and that you don't know what it it's a known cost at the time you got it. What are you going to say, Michael? Right. No. Okay. All right. Five. The committee may require an applicant to undergo a physical examination by an independent physician at the town's
expense. That's interesting. This is where you're into the fraud. Yeah. Second opinion. Yeah. This is in a lot of I think all of our union our bargaining agreements. This is this is a fraud protection. Yeah. Makes sense. Definitely need something.
Okay. Six. No more than 15 days may be granted from the bank to any one applicant at a time. Requests for additional days must must be accompanied by a new application. So I think this should be a lot longer than Yeah. Um more like 45 or 60. Um Well, I like what
we're getting at here, but I I I agree it needs to be longer than 15, but I do like that you have to sort of check in and sort of submit a new application. I'm I mean I'm in the minority. I'm fine. It was 15. I guess 20 would be fine but a month but it's a big Yeah
that's 20 oh 20 days like administratively 20 days would be a month two weeks 20 days would be a month no 15 days would be three weeks it's work days yeah yeah so but the real question is what is the turnaround time on the
application right that's what you have to that's what has to be done process right because that's frequently meeting if it's every right and if the whole if that whole committee of you know however many people has to Yeah, it's going to be a lot of coordination. Yep. If someone is out for 6 months, quick turn
around. I think I do see the the having the review process, but I don't know what that cuz you Yeah. Yeah. I would be okay with really bumping this up. I don't think it should go over two months. I'd want to
look at other policies. I would yeah I have to think about it a little more but yeah I think 15 days is probably just short vary for fulltime part-time I don't know I mean as we get through this what's striking me here is I'm wondering if
this would be far more simple if it was administered initially you know based on the program eligibility if it was an HR decision and that any leave required beyond ond 15 days then that would trigger the committee and then the
trigger the committee could be the okay so a threshold aggressively against that. No it really it really it when it comes down to the fairness or the perceived fairness by the employees who are applying that
they're going to talk or their application is going to be considered by a panel of their colleagues versus one decision maker. And it really only comes down, it becomes only problematic in two scenarios typically. One is where you're
denied and then it's a lot maybe you don't like it still, but it's an easier pill to swallow if you were denied by a panel of your colleagues. And um two is if is if somebody thinks oh it's unfair so and so is being favor is receiving
favoritism from this one individual. I can understand that. But the other side of it though is that you know if you have you have to be willing to share a serious medical condition that maybe isn't something like a stroke or isn't something like a heart attack but it's
something a little more I mean not everyone wants to say hey I have a hyctomy coming up and I'm going to be out of time right I mean isn't that so I it the way it's written you're requiring someone to share really private information with a large group of people
in the first instance and that's why I'm just wondering as we're going through this like is there a way to make them eligible for some of it and then you know if you know they need that time then they're willing to share it with this larger audience but in the first instance it just seems like maybe the
audience should be a little smaller. Yeah. I mean I think you're you're both making really good points here. So I don't know I go back to we need to see some other policies on how other towns because other towns do do this. So how it's being done I don't I don't know. But yeah, that is that could stop people
certain people depending on what their conditions are from applying if they want that amount of people to know, right? So maybe there's a way to have the can I No, no, cuz then that defeats the whole Sorry, I'm thinking loud. I was going to say maybe there's a way to have, you know,
HR determine whether it was a qualifying event and then it goes to the committee for approval, but that def that's defeats the whole But there's also like emot like mental health issues that I'm sure could fit into this as well that people maybe aren't willing to share. Yeah. with their colleagues and you know, do you really want someone suffering through a mental health
concern at work, you know, because they're don't want to share it. Yeah. No, I understand. Okay. I kind of go back to maybe it does go to the HR and then the appeal process could be to a committee if you wanted to appeal a denial. M
still have the committee involved in the in the form setting and in that kind of stuff. But maybe the actual application of it, it only goes to the committee if the employee wants to to agree it, right? We could say in that appeal process and then if they want to appeal then they would have to decide if it's
worth it to them to disclose that. I don't know. That's just a thought. Yeah, that that makes sense. That makes sense. But that still puts a lot back on the one person as as town manager said. Yeah. All right. Seven. Any sick leave accumulated while an employee is receiving benefits from the program
shall be returned to the bank. Makes sense to me. Oh, hey, we talk about day. And number eight. Yep. Eight. For purposes of this program, quote, day shall equal the rate at which an employee acrews sick leave per month. I
think that's going to be totally totally undicernable what that means. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The above shall a day shall equal the rate. So first of all, days aren't rates. Yeah. Well, can I ask like where?
Well, yeah. How much an acro? I think we should use simple simple terms. I think that may be hours. Hours. So, would it be the amount of hours that an employee works? Well, that goes back to the threshold question that member Moore was
asking earlier of is it a day, is it hours? We do about six six versus eight. So, that'll get this will get sorted in the sorting of that other question. Y right. Makes sense. This is all going to be tied to how how difficult it's going to be to account for all this. I still
this still brings up my other point too that I think we should have a definition section in the beginning of a policy, not just the committee section of the beginning of a policy. I think for things like this, there should be a section that says definitions on to delineate what these things are, right? So, right away, we all know, everyone knows what we're talking about. Yeah,
for sure. All right, two more points. We're almost done. Nine. Approval of benefits shall be granted by a majority vote of the committee. Set approval shall not be unreasonably denied and shall not be subject to appeal or grievance procedures. So, I think if you can't appeal it or grieve it, how do you know it's not been unreasonably denied?
Like those two things don't go together. Yeah. So we definitely need an appeal process. What's kind of goes back to HR point, right? Yeah, it does. Yeah. Because do you does the appeal process just go back to the committee if you you know? So all
right. Sickle bank benefits shall not be granted beyond the number of hours available in the bank. And that of course comes to my problem which is if you're the unlucky one who because somebody there was a run on them because there was a run of bad illnesses in town. Let's just say it was a COVID
thing, right? And then people ran on it. Like now I'm the last person in. So basically, that's sort of why I'm like, you know, as much as it's difficult to to say what this can be used for, the the the situations of the employees that I've known that have needed to have this happen very serious
issues. This was not like I went and had a nose job and I was out of work for a couple of weeks. I mean that is obviously just a random example I just gave but these were you know cancer serious serious injuries that have happened. So I would I would hope that this wouldn't be abused and that in that
situation where it did run out say we had three awful illnesses we did have a period of time where we had three in like a year that we could people could have that voluntary additional voluntary donation which I do think our employees will do that for each other. Not that it would always happen and I don't think we can that there's never going to be a
perfect solution here but um somehow controlling the abuse of it and then but more so the employees having the ability to make a voluntary donation if they want to. I mean we had an employee out you know and people were donating you know 20 30 days people. So
yeah I agree. I mean I don't see what the benefit is. I I I see how it's written. I agree you can't give people more time than you have. But I do think that once the bank is empty that it should trigger a voluntary contribution. Uh, and that way employees can contribute, right? Just townwide, who
wants to give up some? I mean, to to member Moore's point, I mean, I wouldn't be against raising the threshold to be at some real a serious serious issue. And of course,
serious is a non-defined term, but we, you know, again, it's got to be some sort of qualifier. I don't know how what that is, but I mean, don't we I mean, I'm assuming that we have long-term disability here. So, I mean, that we're probably going to be saving some money if everyone's going to
be able to burn through sick, not burn through, but everyone's able to utilize sick time, which usually has a higher rate of pay cuz long-term disability usually decreases it by a certain percentage, usually 40, uh, over what your normal rate is. So, I mean, it's not like they're, you know, I don't want to swear, but only
the phrase that comes to mind is ass out, but it's not like they're like out, you know, in a in an awful situation that they can't do anything if they have that long-term disability there, right? There's just sometimes there's a gap in between when it starts
and I forget how that whole process works. Isn't there a gap in between when it LTD? I don't know. I believe there's like a you have to be out of I I don't want to speak out. I thought there was some sort of a weird thing that happens there, but I don't know. Yeah, cuz I maybe there should be some reference to
the interplay with with how this affects or impacts long-term disability. I just I know what the intent of this is and I want it to be able to be used for that intent and and not have I don't want to have it fail because some you know it's being abused, bad actors and hopefully we wouldn't have that happening. I I
don't I don't I'm not even so I mean I'm concerned about fraud and abuse obviously, but that's I think easier to do. I I'm against maybe being used casually. That's what I'm saying. It's not that it's abused, like to let it be so loose that it's always being, right? Like if if you're someone that takes one
sick day off a month and then you're just going to start requesting it because you ran out of sick time, right? I think that that's the kind of stuff that we need to curb because there are people that do that. Mhm. And I don't think that's the intent of creating a sick bank. It's not because you used all 12 of your days and you used all 12 of your days every year. This is for
something that is a is a serious issue and that's and again I don't know how we word that but I think there needs to be something in here about it. Can we use I mean the paid family medical leave must have language around qualifying events. Maybe we can use some of that language
not have paid medical leave but kind of use that as a guide just to say we you know we do have some language in here to have a physician's a letter from a physician and you know there's some qualifying language in here already. So, I think maybe we should just read that and, you know, sort of um think about
whether or not it needs to be expanded or if it's covered. And I think that maxes out at 12 weeks. Yeah. Unfortunately, what are you going to say? I I know far too many instances of people getting medical doctors to sign off on stuff that, you know, Yeah. is
Yeah. that aren't necessarily what you would think of it as being. um you know there so I I think that the as as select saying qualifying conditions or qualifying events I think something along that line would be helpful within the language. Yeah, and
we do we do actually have something about that already in four. I I do definitely need to spend some more time. Yeah, same looking at this under benefits benefit eligibility. Number four, we did have that. Applicant must have a medical condition verified and documented by a physician which requires a prolonged period of
recuperation and or absence from work. So that eliminates that oneoff thing, but it is still somewhat subjective, right? That's the And I'm actually I'm okay with having a little bit of subjectivity here, right? I don't want to list out a a list of qualifying medical conditions that qualify you for
this program, you know, and it just goes back to, I guess, the integrity of the committee, right? Making these decisions. So, all right. All right. Well, that's the end of the policy. Any other discussion on this tonight? I just want to say I'm really glad that
we're finally reviewing this. I think this is going to be a great addition uh to the town and I'm very grateful to you, Jen, and also to um our HR director, Julie, for all the work that went into drafting this. Um so, thank you. Mhm.
All right, moving [Music] on. Let's go a little slow. So, Amanda's back, but uh we have the merit award policy. So the reason that we're doing this is because like we kind of covered already um we added it to the SAP. So it
doesn't apply to uh union personnel. So this is essentially just copy and pasting the language of the policy pretty much into a policy so that it can be used uh for union personnel as well. There's no real substantial changes to the policy. It's just moving it so it
applies to I do want to just flag that um in this first year of this program the timeline's going to be a little bit different just based on where we are. It it was required to be like in April.
Okay. So that I'm soliciting. So Gotcha. Okay. Um might as well just wait for Amanda to come back. Just Do you want to I don't know. You want to speak to this a little more fill the gap here? It it it it literally is just taking I think that the I think that at least here the
intent at least as in terms of how the employees were viewing it was a little more clear that they did think that this program was going to apply across the organization. M well again I that this one I definitely didn't think would
really no no no this is and by the way in the first paragraph under purpose I think there needs to be on the last line the two before the all. Yeah I've noticed that too. Yeah I'm reading it I'm like why am I not understanding this? Yeah I I I want to second what Tom
just said. feel very strongly that merit pay for collective bargaining unions is a is negotiated during collective bargaining. In this in this particular case, I think that what was brought forward for the
SAP was to basically [Applause] uh throw light on the fact that they're not represented and it was that contract and that plan that was inadequate for the people then. And this was an a a a
piece that we could do easily u for that purpose. That's why it's in that section. I guess what I'm when I see this right, I hear that this I hear what you're saying that this was to give SAP
employees a little something. But when I actually look at what we're awarding and that like there's going to be a plaque somewhere and people's names are going to go on the plaque for the three categories of communication, efficiency, and pinnacle of excellence. We will that
means we will never name the winner regardless of the monetary value, right? like take the 250 out of it, but the the winner of this award would never be anybody but the really smaller bundle of folks in the SAP. So, you could be
knocking it out of the park with what you're doing for transparency and you could be building out your website and you could be doing all these metrics and sharing that and you don't get to be the efficiency winner or the pinnacle of excellence winner that year. And so, I wasn't in.
Yes, I was going to catch you up to that. So, we're discussing whether or not this should apply to union personnel. So, I I think I I've probably made myself pretty clear on on these kind of things, but I think this should be townwide person. And I think so, too.
I think for a program like this to work, it has to be all employees have to be eligible. I think we're talking about um a small amount of money. I think this more goes to the to building improving the culture. um just trying to do do something for
employees, just recognizing their their work. Personally, I don't think these should have been under the SAP either of these at all. I know that's how they were presented. Um they're still relatively new to the board. I'm still learning every single time I sit every day I sit here. Um but
I personally feel that this should be across the board. Well, maybe the way around it to bridge the divide here is that um you know to add that applicability is for unions that have adopted in their contract um special merit pay um that you know we can
negotiate this we can make a policy that applies to the unions that have adopted it and then when we engage in collective bargaining we can adopt they can adopt it. Um, but I think it's a it's a to me when you start talking about merit pay on unions, it to me it is a union
negotiation that in exchange for, you know, um, you know, us offering this this special merit pay that there's it's part of what the full benefit package is. I wish I could unhinge the dollars, the pay with the actual program. First of all, I don't think that the $250 like
this is not about it's not about the pay, right? Like it's not making or breaking it. I wish I could the money from the making the award and maybe that's what we can do right that that if if you happen to be an SAP employee and
you get this award this year you get the 250 bucks if you're not an SAP employee you get the award cuz I really I think that the honor of being recognized for your work to me as an employee that's more than the $250 for sure. I
completely agree. And a program like this doesn't work if it's not going to be townwide. Well, well, I think it does. The way to really correct, of course, is to at special town meeting in the fall, remove these from the SAP and just make them
policies of of the town, right? which I think you and I both said that we had the authority to make these as policies and they well I yeah I I I recall being alone in my objection to the whole SAP debacle which I still think it's a debacle and here's reasons why I think it's a debacle you know we didn't have
any method and didn't think the things out and you know unfortunately again the whole idea of addressing the SAP was for deficiencies in the employees covered by the SAP and so The whole merit thing was
like this is for them. Correct. So where are we at? Who who feels strongly that this should only apply to SAP employees? Well, I I mean I that doesn't make sense. I don't know if that was quite where my position was as much as it seems like that's where the conversation that's what the language is
that I my position is it should be for everybody. Okay. My position is that the language that was passed in the SAP didn't lead to that. Right now we have to fix the SAP as well. But why can't we adopt a policy regardless of what it
said? Well, because I think that what me, you know, Vice Chair Jeffrey said, is that these are like you said it while you were just here is that that these are things that you negotiate with with towns. I mean, again, if you decouple the recognition from the money, I think
what what we're actually talking about passing, sorry, I cut you off. Um, what did you say in here then? I I just apologize for cutting him off. Um, I don't really view this as a merit. $250 to me is like maybe that's
what some towns do, but to me this is more the rec it's a recognition policy. It's a recognition. It's not really merit in my opinion. Merit is usually larger than $250. Um, but I don't know. I definitely
support town. I mean, you know, the thing is we're calling them special merit awards. Um and and based on the fact that the SAP um has it now in their rules that I think the expectation is that the SAP will be eligible for all of these
different categories. So if we are not making you know awarding um you know these different categories or different things to if someone in the SAP doesn't get it then are we are we really complying at that point you know but I do think it should be townwide for the
recognitions I felt very strongly about this I've said this several times but when it comes to the money um the money to me is a separate thing that is part of the union negotiation it should just be employee recognition award yeah Employee recognition award town. No
money. Done. Yeah. I mean, doesn't have to be complicated. So, let me scroll down here. I'm trying to find the dollar. Where's the actual dollar in here? I don't see it. It's not in here. It's at the very end. It has to be somewhere. It is. It in the page two.
Nominations shall be Oh, there it is, too. Okay. Got cut off. The actual dollar is there. Okay. So, that part of it. All recipients will be publicly recognized for their accomplishment and have a letter of commendation placed in their personnel file in addition to their one-time award of $250. So, do we
want to add language here that just specify that that is only for SAP employees? Is that where we're getting at here? Yep. That's where I'm at. Well, it's going to be hard to navigate that. Yeah. So somebody else gets the award until it can be modified but they don't get
anything but somebody else who didn't win the award gets $250 or and collective baring units that have adopted you know so can I ask a question what happen what would happen if we just so the policy this is a
personnel policy right it doesn't have the weight of charter or bylaw of the general bylaws are we talking about this new policy or we talking about SAP SAP Right. It doesn't It doesn't have the same weight as the charter. It doesn't have the same weight. A personnel bylaw doesn't have the same weight as the general bylaws. Yeah. The AG doesn't
approve them. What if we don't follow our own pol or just saying aloud, what if we don't follow our own policy for this year and we don't start this program until we get it out of the SAP in the special town
meeting in the fall. I think I'm going to jump in here right away. Last summer, uh, we did something that was not necessarily to the letter of our policies, and I think that the response back from the members, uh, who are not
in the, uh, slim majority there was overwhelming, and I do not think it's wise for us to with eyes wide open um, not conform. Yeah, I definitely don't want to not do this. I mean, a lot went into this. We did it in the fall at
special town meeting. We have the opportunity to fine-tune it here, but to say that we're just not going to do it while we're fine-tuning it is probably isn't what I would say. How much money? How much are we allowed to actually fine-tune it here? That's my question as
opposed to taking it back the fall town meeting to do it the way we're discussing now. Well, I think we're fine-tuning though. The fine tuning is deciding how much of it applies to non-union personnel and the policy that we're looking at here that we're implementing, right? Like
that's that's really the question here. But can we fine-tune to take the money award out? Yes, you could. You could and just make it an employee recognition award and you you get a you know No, in the article it says well it would still
be given to SAP employees because of bylaw. So without taking out of the bylaw we can't take the money, right? So you could take you could you could say you because you're SAP you get the $250 but you can also you who's not SAP you could win this award but there's no
monetary right so like I said the fine tuning until you negotiate it is deciding whether or not the union I mean everyone's up in the next one to two years anyway so I mean it's only going to be a temporary disconnect that we will get ourselves out of but then is it opening it up for everyone and every
union thinks that they're going we would have to add language somewhere in here that says that the awards are only townwide. It's not one award per each bargaining unit or per the No, it's I don't think that would be a concern as of right now anyway. Would it not right now, but if
each unit is getting it in because that was the point that got brought up if say someone in in you know the DPW got the award but didn't get the money, would the money then go to would
there be two people that year? No. So is the town manager shall make no more than one award in each of the three categories and the town manager shall make all determinations regarding the nominees and may decline to grant an
award in a particular category. So um if there's not a strong applicant, right? We're not just going to give it away, right? Mhm. Well, if you're looking the way to get it, I mean, if I if I was going to set this right, I would say that you do something that's just as it
is right now written for SAP only for SAP for this year and then say in the town meeting, you take in the special town meeting, you propose taking that out of SAP and making it a townwide thing. Yeah, I think that might actually because that's how it was passed, right? That's the letter of how it was passed,
which is not this year, not this year alone. It was not at least my understanding of what the intent was, but that is what we passed, which is why we should have reviewed it more and and that whole. So I would that that would be the way to get out of it with following what we said and then realize it had unintended consequences of what
we wanted and have to go back and rearrange. We talked about it at fall meeting that this was not so simple and nothing. Well, I would argue that it's good that we have this and yes, we can work out the issues as we go and we can iterate on it. You know, I'm not going
to say that it was a mistake to pass this. So, so this also says may annually make the town, and I'm reading the article, not the policy. In addition to any pay increases which may be awarded to an employee, the town manager may annually make a one-time award. So, in theory, we don't have to do this this
year. Do we even have the money to do this this year? We do. Okay. So, then then I think if we are going to do it this year, then it should just be SAP. And then I do think we need to get this on the special town meeting to remove it from the to make it a townwide policy in
my opinion. I don't think they should have to negotiate over this, but that's either my personal opinion. All right, Del members agree. Rene shaking her head. Yeah, I'm good with it. Yeah, Michael Ray. Yes. Okay.
All right. Sounds good. Nothing stops Jen from being able to propose to us that someone who's in a collective bargaining union should be recognized by the select board in a way that is very similar to how the S&P is recognized. And I would have to imagine that, you know, we have a $50 limit, right? That
if we needed to raise, you know, a couple hundred bucks that we could easily do it. All right. Well, thank you very much for putting this together, too. Moving on, we have a discussion on acceptance of gift policy. So, the reason that this is here is because a
gift came up, which you'll also see on the agenda. Um, and there was some confusion about how to handle it and whether or not the select board had to approve it. Uh, what gifts the select board actually does approve. Uh, and it's pretty clear according to statute
that we approve pretty much everything. Uh, so this policy is pretty much uh being put into writing as an explicit guide uh for staff to follow and the public as well. Is that a fair representation? Yes. And um Didn't we already have one?
We didn't have a gift policy. I thought we did. I thought we did. I thought we did one if you did. It's not It's not its own standing. It's not It's not in the policy book. So, if you did, it's not in the policy book cuz I looked for it. Um, and I've I've searched for
gifts, but um, this I did borrow from largely from Southampton and a little bit of Lancaster. Um, but I looked at quite a few gift policies and uh, Southampton had the best one that was just um, I
think covered the whole thing. All right, so we we should really just like go through this. So I'm going to start reading through it. All right, gift policy purpose and application one. This policy establishes procedures for the acceptance of gifts to the town of Lunberg. Two, the Lunberg Select Board
appreciates gifts of offers of gifts, donations, and bequests and views charitable giving as valuable to the town's well-being and future. Three, the purpose of this policy is to develop uniform standards for the acceptance of grants and gifts so as to ensure that the intent of the donors can be carried
out in an efficient and consistent manner. Four, this policy policy shall apply to all gifts of personal property, services, and money given to the town of Lunenburgg or any of its departments, provided that this policy shall not
apply to the following. A gifts of real estate. B. Gifts for educational or school related purposes. C. Gifts to the board of library trustees. D. gives to any other trust established in accordance with general law chapter 41
section 45 and 47. Um, out of curiosity, why is it not MGL? Does it actually you can use GL or MGL relatively interchangeably? I always see MGL, but that's okay. Or E, gifts to individual employees or groups of employees for
their own personal use. Note that gifts to individual employees may only be accepted in accordance with the Massachusetts conflict of interest law and shall not exceed $50 in value. So, I'm going to pause there for a minute. Anything so far?
Nothing other than I would like to be MGL. Just Yeah, me too. Is just a super nit silly silly thing. I have seen it both ways, but I like I like MGL. Me, too. I think that's also how we use it pretty consistently in Lunberg, just like keeping things Yeah. consistent.
All right, I'll continue. Five. Any gift or donation not subject to this policy shall be administered in accordance with applicable law, policies, and procedures of the recipient and/or any terms or conditions imposed by the donor. Town meeting approval may be
required. Six, the town shall recognize any gift accepted under this policy in writing by thanking the donor within 30 days of the acceptance of any gift by the town manager or select board. Definitions gift or donation. The term
quote gift and quote donation shall be synonymous and may be a contribution of money, securities, tangible pro personal property, equipment, goods or services that the town accepts and for which the donor does not receive anything in return. Okay.
So, we've talked in the past about people naming things after other folks, and I generally don't have a conflict if, you know, uh, a board decides to give someone the ultimate honor and do that. But I do think it could be
problematic if someone's giving a gift that, you know, in ex, you know, it says does not receive anything in return. But I I think we may want to spell out that, you know, you can't give Maybe we do want to do it, but may, you know, do we want to allow people to say,
"Hey, I'll give $50,000 uh if we renovate this room and it gets named after me." Um, no. That would be getting something in return. Yeah. Or name it after my mother. Still getting something, right? Some communities do have a naming policy
specifically for that. I know the school does. So, do we do we want to while I agree with you, Tom, that that is getting something in return, I wonder if a future board would say, well, they're not actually getting anything. They are if you're saying I'll
do this if you the if you part is the something in return. I think we should have a naming policy and then we should think about how it ties in with this. Okay. Yeah. Personally, because I don't think we should tell boards and committees that they can't do that if they so choose to do that.
or I'll donate this thing, but I want the bottom of it to say donated by by. Yeah, I think I I would hope and I know that that does happen. But if a committee wanted to honor someone or a family or something, I don't want to all
of a sudden be like, you can't because they donated to you and now you you know, even even if even if the the the donor is isn't asking, I you understand what I'm saying? I'm sorry. Yeah. No, I I agree with you. I see where you're going. Policy. Yeah, I know.
All right, we can think about this. All right, we'll keep going. Gift acceptance authority. So, one, in accordance with MGL chapter 44, section 53A, any border officer of the town has the authority to accept gifts or donations of funds on behalf of the town of Boenberg.
I think or officer is a problem. Okay. Because, but is that from the state law? Mhm. Yeah, it seems like it is. I mean, one cited right there. If that's a state law, how do you But we can be stronger then. Yep. Right. True. So, I I think or
officer is a little problematic cuz I mean that means that I mean technically we're all officers, right? I don't know who I don't know who's I have to read 44, right? Yeah, I was going to say section chapter 44 section 53. Just make a note of it. Okay. So when you when you
um do want to kind of look at it, it is in the for later. They're dropped in there for you. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. We'll read through all that. Two, MGL chapter 44 section 53A also provides for a deposit of gift funds in a special account by the town treasurer. B,
expenditures of funds for the specific purpose of the gift without town meeting appropriation subject to the approval of the select board. That's it. Three, in accordance with MGL chapter 44, section 53A and a half, the select board has the authority
to accept gifts or donations of tangible personal property on behalf of the town. Okay. Gift acceptance process one. So, hold on a second. What What is I I guess again we'll we'll we'll look at 53A. I don't understand the difference between
number one and then number three. So, 53A is um cash donations, okay? and a and a half is tangible things. Okay? So it could be a vehicle, it could be a bench, it's a thing, right? Okay. So number one, when we talk about
officers, so anybody can accept on behalf of So what is that money? Cash. Cash. Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Because then in three, it's just as a select board has the authority to accept, right? Donations of tangible personal property. So that's an
interesting distinction and again because somebody can be given something I think it's replies to well anyway it says on behalf of the town so that's not true they take it back okay all right so I just read three right yes acceptance process so one offer all
gifts or offers of gifts shall be accompanied by a letter or electronic communication from the donor indicating the offer its monetary value if there is any intended purpose for the gift and any restrictions on the use of the gift wait but what if it they want to an anonymous donor. That's further down.
Oh, it's further down. Okay. Two. I didn't read this one before we Yeah, I didn't get too far on this one either. Two, review/recommendation. Gifts offered to one of these town entities will first be reviewed by the entity and recommendation will be forwarded for
approval to the select board if the gift has a value of $500 or more or the town manager if the gift has a value of less than $500 for final determination. What do you think of that part? I'm fine with it.
Michael Ray, did you have something you were gonna say? Yeah. I mean, what I don't have a I don't have a conflict. I'm just looking at additional things. Okay. Um, you know, cuz I want what makes me worry a little bit is if um someone says, you know, hey, town manager, you know, I'm going to make
this donation uh to the town. It's going to be for 450 bucks. Oh, yeah. And let's talk about what I came here to meet with you with. You know what I mean? it almost facilitates a bribe, right? And so I mean obviously the town manor is not going to accept a bribe. Um but how do we make this a little stronger so
that way it has to be a little more well I guess I would anonymous gifts maybe are excluded from being accepted by the town manager. I would just extend this like what difference does like the potential for the town manager to be bribed than the select board? There were five people. I mean it's the it's I I
think what Mr. Jeff is getting at is that that potentially could be a meeting in my office versus something where we are reading out here in public in a public meeting. I can see that and and I do not have any concern if you want to say that
you're approving all gifts. That's fine to say not to break up. I I just the the break between the 500 is just for administrative convenience. But if the board wants to be viewing all gifts and accepting all gifts, I am 100% in
support of that. Yeah. How often do we get gifts? So, I think that when this policy is distributed, you'll be seeing more gift acceptances. I think people just don't know the select board's supposed to vote to accept them. I think there's a lot of gifts that we don't know about because people just don't
know it needs to come before us. So, no that that's true, but no. Well, because the body who the people who are accepting the gifts would know should know should know. Yeah. Now, there may be some distance between the craps, but I don't think
there's just a thought. That's all. And as far as this the town manager, I mean, if if if a town manager is he's unethical enough to for $500 jeopardize his or her job for $500. I know. Seriously. I mean, is there some sort of
reporting here? Did I miss it? Like, are you going to be reporting to us? I I think my comment here was not about the the town manager getting bribed as much as it's on the other end of that. It's someone feeling as if, you know, now they have the opportunity to kind of grease the wheels a bit. Not obviously,
you know, no tongue maners losing their job over 500 bucks. Um, you know, it's kind of silly, but but doesn't incentivize a bad actor here. Yeah. So, there is a pro. So, um all to your question, Mr. All um turnovers of all types of funds
are recorded by the treasury collector. Okay. And that could help alleviate that concern, but we we can think about that. Um so is there anything why is there a cemetery with a one superscript? So, um there's um a separate statute that
applies to certain types of donations or funds to the cemetery that are specifically covered under another um section of the general law. Okay. Um so, they are exempt from this process. I think Miss Mi is asking that cuz I don't see I don't see the Oh, you don't see
it? Yeah. On my version, I'm seeing it. I don't I don't see it on mine. Are you not in that maybe full app? Yeah, she's on a laptop just like I am. If you go to I'm not in the app and so I don't see it either. Open in desktop. Oh, okay. Let me open it in desktop. Let me try that.
Oh, that's weird. I see it. Yeah. So it says just while you're pulling it up, gifts gifts bestowed bestowed to the cemetery division for the perpetual care are exempt from MGL chapter 44 and shall be kept in a separate fund where applicable as governed by MGL chapter
114 section 25. I can't open it because office requires licenses and accounts for everything and you can't just open a document anymore. The subscript I'm in the browser and I don't Yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't see it either in the browser. That's weird. Okay. Well, it's there, so we can just look at that.
Yeah, exactly. All right. So, let's move on. Dream job. Do you guys need me to read this table? Are we any comments on that? No. No. Three. Determination. Upon receipt of a recommendation by the head of the receiving department, the select board for gifts valued at $500 or more, or the town manager for gifts valued
less than 500 will determine whether the gift is appropriate for the mission and needs of the town, and whether the gift should be accepted, accepted with conditions, or rejected. Four, right to reject. Notwithstanding anything in this policy, to the contrary, count as the right to reject any gifts or donation, any gift or
donation for any reason or no reason at all. Well, that's kind of redundant, but I think that's funny. Yeah. Five. Final disposition. The donor will be notified in writing of the select board or town manager's decision. If the gift is rejected, any funds or property already received by the town will be promptly
returned to the donor. Six, valuation. Monetary gifts shall be at face value. Ongoing or frequent gifts from the same donor and for the same purpose may be assigned the total value of all the gifts expected within the same fiscal year for the purpose of determining whether the gift requires
approval of the select board because the total value is 500 or more. The town reserves the right to assign such value to an item of tangible personal property as it deems appropriate, provided that it may require an appraisal for gifts of tangible personal property. If the town cannot assign a value to a gift, the
donor is responsible for obtaining an independent appraisal of the item. Seven, record of receipt. Upon acceptance of a gift, the town manager will provide a completed gift acceptance receipt receipt to the donor and will be copied to the town
treasurer. Conditions of acceptance. Upon acceptance of any donation by the town, the donor shall relinquish all rights, ownership or control over the donated property or funds except as set forth in the terms of the donation and any gifts given to the town shall not be refunded to the donor under any
circumstances after acceptance in accordance with this policy. Nine, expenditures. No expenditures or gifted funds shall be permitted until the town manager or select board have accepted the gift in the manner deemed appropriate by this policy. All expenditures of gifted funds must be
made through the town's financial policies and are subject to the town's purchasing regulations and accounts payable/warrant processing procedures. Okay. Gift acceptance criteria. One, in determining whether to accept a gift, the select board or town manager may consider whether A, the gift
is appropriate to the mission and needs of the town. B, the use of the gift is restricted or unrestricted. C, the gift is irrevocable. D, future financial impact on the town would result from the gift, including ongoing operations, maintenance, or capital costs. E, the gift terms permit the town to apply the
gift to another purpose should the original intent become impractical. F. Terms proposed by the donor are in the town's interest. G. Accepting the gift is in conflict with any town policy or any applicable state, federal or local law. Solicitation and voluntariness of
gifts. Is that a word? Voluntariness. It is now. Okay. One, no solicitation of funds or donations may be undertaken by any party on behalf of the town without prior approval of the select board. Two, gifts of the town are to be voluntary or not to be given in lie of payments, fees, or
services otherwise due to the town. All right, if we can pause. I was just going to say I feel like our eyes are glad over here with policy. Nope, these are all it's just well written. Okay, good. The building conflict is number one. Um, you know, I I I'm aware that there's
already a group out there that's a nonprofit that's soliciting donations on behalf of the school without any kind of co-signing uh from the school. Yeah. And it's not just schools. Yeah. And I think that in situations like this, I mean, you know, someone's trying to, you know, let's think of the skate park kids,
right, who've been raising money for a while and technically the town is going to benefit from them having an town property, right? um you know in that case yes we have in large part endorsed it but I do think there's opportunity here for the community to come together
and and try to raise money for different things and and and to be supportive to the town and I don't know if it's wise to require a vote of the select were to allow that and also what happens to groups that are already doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're not doing it on behalf of the town. There's a difference
between fundraising and asking for gifts. This is a gift policy. Sure. I mean, the skate park, to use that example only because it was brought up, is like a group who is raising money to build a skate park and we're not the
town hasn't authorized them. We're allowing them to do it because they're going to provide money to build the skate park. But, but as an example, like let's think of the Marshall Park project. And I mean, obviously we want it to happen, but I mean, if someone out there says, "Hey, I'm going to reach out
to, you know, all the earth removers in town and and adjacent type folks and see if I can coordinate with them to see if they can be willing to donate certain amount of materials and etc. That, you know, should that be done with the explicit kind of consent of the select
board or could someone come here in a public comment one day and say, "Hey, I've coordinated this. I've done this. we're willing to offer the town, you know, half a million dollars in material for X, Y, and Z. To me, I think that we should be open to allowing those kinds of things to happen. Yeah. There's a difference
between somebody saying, I know somebody who's in that business and we'll try to I'll try to get them to do it. As long as we don't bless it or say anything, we're not condoning it. That people can ask people what they want. So, you you differentiate then in the fundraising fundraising and acceptance of the gift,
right? I mean, if somebody if somebody says, "I have a friend who who can do X and provide those services for a project like has happened and they come forward and they say, "Yeah, I'm willing to give it to the town." As long as select board and elected members of the town didn't
openly on the air saying, "Hey, listen. If anybody's out there and you want to give a gift, we'd really appreciate it." Like, that's a hugely different issue. It's kind of like It's kind of like the difference why you can't campaign, right, in public meetings and things like that. So yeah, unless you do it in public comments,
you're not even that. Yeah, I was saying no, Tom. Well, anyway, I'm not going to start that side note. Okay. Yeah, I don't have any problem with number one because I think it's it's who's doing the asking. Obviously, people can ask people they know. As long as it's not
required, as long as we didn't commission somebody or charge somebody to do that. Yeah, I see what you're saying though because what if you are on a board and you're you're talking to your friends and then you know which happens a lot, right? There are a lot of people who are involved in that sort of work who happen to be on boards that may or may not Could we run that one by town
council cuz like you get the you you have the the uh farming not the farm the the gardening group that does the kind of the center of town. You have the lights that kind of happen every Christmas time. I mean I think in many ways those are those are gifts. What's the gift though? are using that's
already town property for well if we go back to the town center if we go back to the park the park thing y I'm not saying they're doing this but say you know somebody that's on the park commission knows somebody from Powels and and is like hey do you have anything you want to donate and they do this wouldn't
allow them to do that unless we gave them the authority to do that right essentially correct yeah and I don't I think in our community where a lot of times these companies do support us I think that we wouldn't want to not allow that. I mean, I know I know there's a hair there's there's a line there, but maybe we can get some advice
from council on that one. In my opinion, we can think about that a little more. All right, we're almost done. Reporting/recordkeeping. One, all gift of funds. All gifts of funds donated to the town shall be accounted for in accordance with applicable laws and standard accounting and recordkeeping
procedures. Two, revenue turnovers. The head of each department that receives grants or donations of funds shall turn said funds over to the treasurer in accordance with the town's financial management policies and procedures. Anonymous/confidential donations. In certain situations, a donor may prefer
to make a confidential or anonymous donation to the town. Town manager may evaluate the type of gift and is authorized to accept it on behalf of the town without public notification of the donor's name as long as all of the requirements are satisfied and to the extent permitted by law. I think so.
This is the only reason this is problematic is if it's over $500 in in this policy, then the town manager doesn't have the authority to accept it, right? And I should say something about the select board. We can accept an anonymous donations as well. But I also
think this goes directly against I can't find it right now because my brain is tired. It was when I brought it up and I said it said they have to give their name, right? Right. And I know that this is trying to address that, but I think it needs to be somewhere in the same point because this this completely contradicts the other thing that says
they have to give their name. Yeah, I agree with that. I don't even remember where I don't remember at the very beginning about they have to do it in writing and something like I just know I said I was like wait what what we can just we can rework that. Okay. And then the last one, donor tax impact. Gifts to the town may be deduct
deductible from the donor's federal income tax if the gift is intended solely for quote public purposes. Today's tax day. Donors are encouraged to consult with a tax professional if there are any questions concerning a taxable status of a donation. I wonder if that first sentence is
already giving tax advice. Um yeah. Um maybe just in the section where we talk about the um get receipt um that there could be just language added in there um about it cuz you can't give tech. Do you want to just get
rid of it first sentence? Yeah. Do we have to give any information? Just donors are encouraged to consult with tax professional. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. I didn't have any problem with the first ends. Yeah. All right. Any other discussion on this tonight?
All right. Thank you for doing this, too. Yeah, this was a lot of of work that you put forth. Well, I am going to thank Southampton again. I was going to say I but I did have to search Research. I did have to research a lot of communities before I found one that I liked. So, that's the work
though, you know. Mhm. Why do we create the wheel? I don't I'm a big fan of borrow. Yeah. All right. Any other discussion on this? All right. Perfect segue. acceptance of cash gift from Peter and Deborah Lincoln for the Lunberg Adult Activity Center. So, the
Lincoln donated $6,900 for shades at the Lunberg Adult Activity Center. This is where some of the confusion came up among staff. Um, the blinds, the shades are already installed. Um, so we are sort of retroactively doing this vote to
accept it. But how can we vote on this if we don't have a policy? Do we still just you could always have you always could accept under MGL chapter 44? accepted many gifts in the past. I'm sorry. That's okay. My brain is not here anymore. And I also and that gift wasn't solicited or No, it was not solicited.
Um and I also just want to thank the Lincoln for doing this. I mean, I really think it really says a lot about our volunteers and the leadership that we have in town among community members that people are willing to do this. So, I agree. You're here. Agree. Thank you, Deon Pet. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so is
there a motion to accept the cash donation of $6,900 from uh Deb and Pete Lincoln for the installation of blinds at the Lunberg Adult Activity Center? And we can also add this in accordance with MGL chapter 44 section 53A. So moved.
Second. Any additional discussion? Those in favor say I. I. I. Those opposed, no. The motion passes unanimously. All right. Thank you very much. All right. Let's make sure we get them something in writing if possible. Okay. Yeah. Well, we Yeah. Okay. Let's pretend we have policy and we're following it. Y okay.
And then the last thing is a discussion on updated charge for budget task force. We have to get this going up again. Uh so I just wanted to remind people here's the charge. Let's review it if we want to make any changes. One thing that I do want to ask members about and have us start thinking about. Um there at least
for me I've received um a lot of interest among community members for community representation. Uh, so I really want us to consider if we would like to add um like at large community member seats to the budget task force because there's a number of people who have expressed interest and this is
something I hear about almost every week for like the past month. So that's really the one thing that I wanted to pose to members tonight for uh any changes to the charge. Um but if there are other changes too that members want to make at some point doesn't have to be tonight obviously. I just want us to
start thinking about it. Yeah. I I broadly speaking I really want to encourage volunteerism and not advocacy and I think that there's a difference and so you know while I you know municipal and design we have members at large there's a huge value that they add
into it but I think that there is greater value in in in this case in in adding in things like personnel committee members and maybe we'll get someone on the personnel committee um but I do think it's helpful to to maybe pinpoint here a couple of of committees
so that way we can help encourage participation on those committees. Um because we need the whole government to work, not just the parts that people have a specific hope for. I mean the analogy is like pulling the rope, right? We're all in this together, but we can't
just be okay when when we're pulling the rope and we're the ones on the other side getting pulled and and and it's something that we want and then when someone else needs to get that pull that we just let go and hands up doesn't apply to me, doesn't benefit me. So, I just want to encourage the rope pulling here that it's not just self-seeking
that it's for the benefit of us all. I completely hear that. Sorry. No, go ahead. You can go first. My only thought was when you brought up the personnel committee and having sat on the still sitting on the master plan steering committee. I do not think we should put any open seats on a committee that does
not is not filled because that's going to affect quorum issues especially if we do decide to make this larger. I don't I wouldn't not that I wouldn't support the personnel committee being on here. I think that would be great but we don't have one and I certainly wouldn't want to put a spot for a committee that is vacant. Sorry, that was just one side
note from what you just said. Yeah, I think that's fair. Renee, how about you? you were on the budget task force. You wrote the charge. What do you think? So, some towns do have have one or two members at large. Um, it gets fairly
big. Mhm. And it makes it hard to get things done. It's counterintuitive, but big meetings tend to be less effective. Effective and really hard to schedule. Again, that the logistics of this committee is and we can't just add one.
We'd have to add two. And then what's the process of doing it? Yep. That's another question. How do you apply? You know, we'd have to come they'd have to come before us. Yeah. I think but you know, these are also public meetings, so the public can still go and and participate. Yep. Um I guess it right
now based on what we just said, I wouldn't support expanding it personally. Not that I don't support people being involved. They absolutely should be involved. But I think making larger committees, especially when we're struggling so much to fill our current vacancies, doesn't make sense. It's
going to just continue these core issues. And I think maybe I'm tainted from the master plan steering issues that we've had, but having larger committees, it's it's so hard because there's already I think seven, right? Already seven. So it would go up to nine. Have to go to nine. That would be
five. That's a lot. It is. Yeah. Becomes unwieldy. I think large committees are unwieldy and they you reach a peak of diminishing returns. Seven is like the largest I
believe you can go and the only other issue well one of the issues I have with with the task force is the fact that there are four people on here the last four me named in the membership that are going that that have access to all the data. So the the task
force without the town manager, the superintendent, the finance director is absolutely dead in the water because they don't have access to any data. Yep. The question is, do you want as a voting member, do you want the town manager and the superintendent having to be voting members? Now that might be something
that you want to supplant. You want to say, well, let's make it a five member board. And then those last four are people who provide information ad hoc, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah, cuz what was it? Four members of
it are employees. So there's three that are right and they're all and they're all two elected in one appointment. Right. So that's a really good point, too. So So you could replace two people with citizens. Y and then ask the, you know, then the exeicio members but non-
voting because they'll be providing the framework that people will be evaluating. Obviously, they're going to be asked their opinion and they should be asked their opinion, course, but they won't be voting members. Yeah, I I could support that. I think what I would also want to be mindful of is, you know,
length of meetings, right? I mean, town manager already has several meetings she has to attend at night. Same thing with the superintendent, same thing with the finance director. And you know to the earlier comment you know when you start really expanding upon uh this group you know you're expanding upon the length of
time that these meetings would be going on as well. Yeah. Well I think that the I mean now we're getting into the task force own work but I would say that being mindful of what Mr. Jeff just said. I would say
that they should be the the attendance of those four employees should not be mandatory at every meeting and the task force should ask for what they want and then those meetings where they need explanation more then schedule it but I wouldn't expect that the task force
should need to have those four employees every meeting and this could be a way to sort of alleviate that placed on staff too might need them because you don't need them till you need them and if they're not there then the meeting is kind of useless. Well,
okay. Yeah. I've I've long stood I've long said to every town manager I've worked with that they don't need to be at every finance committee meeting either. It's like pick and choose. I mean, it's it's not, you know, the town manager has to be at our meeting. That's
like by charter and everything. But otherwise, the the person in the seat gets pulled in a million directions and starts working 60-hour weeks and that never ends up well. Yeah. Can I ask the town manager how she feels about this
committee? Do you have a strong opinion? So, I do have a strong opinion that I'd like to see the budget task force recharged. Um, I think that there's a lot of work that the budget task force could assist us with.
um you know, help us do our jobs. Um I do not see the need for any of the um employees being voting members. I think that we could totally swap out any
or all of those votes. Um, I think that my my only concern with adding new people is that there is a very steep learning curve that I think those that
were on the budget task force in watching some of those meetings, I saw that evolution happen. Right? You are you became subject matter experts to an extent at the end. And I think if you're going to have somebody who while they want to participate, doesn't understand
the basics of how municipal finance works. Um it's going to be an uphill battle and we won't be able to accomplish as much as we want to accomplish. So I that's my concern there with adding adding voices. I think that
that's fine as long as we make sure that those folks have some threshold understanding say well we can interview I mean right this body will the the if there were citizens at large we decide we we would appoint them and
we could say interview them what I also just heard is member MK is definitely still going to be on the I don't I don't know where I didn't I was going to comment she was saying no no my comment is there's going to be turnover on this committee Because
no. Yeah, you laugh. There could be finance committee. We lo we we lost Evan in September. I don't know if Tony's going to still represent schools, right? You never know what's going to happen. We have a new superintendent. Um you're not you're not
new anymore. Sorry. Um you're not new anymore. The school director of administr I don't know if that they're talking about. I don't know what they're I don't know what is happening there. So, and Amanda's going to be on here now. Whoa. We could have two select
board members. That is possible. Yeah, sure it is. And I think I think what your to your point, Tone Manager, you know, it is a learning curve to to be able to engage in a conversation, you know, broadly speaking. That's why I said it may be beneficial to pick committee members
because you know we hear this stuff all the time. You know, you talking with members of the public sometimes they don't um you know it's hard for people to learn the basics um and it takes a while to learn it. So I I anyway I do see value um but I and we're not looking to make a decision here. No, we're not.
So I was going to end it there anyway. So you know just think about it and we can pick this up here. But we should be ready to go right after Oh yeah. meeting. Absolutely. That's why we're picking this up now so we can you know have a full month to the week after the
week after town meeting. I know this is our our subcommittee but is there value to checking in with you know the school committee or the fincom to see if they had any suggestions on what should what should be included on the budget task force? Yeah, we could do that.
Just a thought I say. I'm happy. Yeah, why not? There's there those committees are represented so they can weigh in for sure. All right. Any other discussion on that tonight? All right. Moving on to old business discussion on 56 car a seller hold. So we left this off in
February. Um I think we were um of the opinion that we wanted an appraisal and we were holding off until April when the weather was nicer nicer so that we could do that. Uh despite the 5 ines of snow that we got a couple days ago, it seems to all be gone now. Uh today it actually felt like spring. Uh, so are we still
interested in getting this appraised? I haven't changed my opinion. Yeah, I haven't either yet. So, yes from Renee Michael Ray. Is that what we said before? I don't even remember. What' you say? That was what we agreed to before, right? I know. I'm like trying to look
and remember refresh myself, but yeah. Yeah. This has been around for a while. We also were talking about ourselves just getting out there and I don't know if it needs to be a formal site visit, but just be fair to go out there and take a look. Yeah, I'd be interested in doing that. We can probably coordinate some sort of sitewalk if more members
wanted to go. Is that something you'd be interested in? I would go uh I I would be more I I know my schedule over the next coming weeks and I'm not I know I can't commit a Saturday um okay morning, but I can certainly get out there myself, but doesn't want to
preclude the rest of the board from agreeing to meet at all. Well, I could say that perhaps we could figure out on our own if we were interested and work with the town manager to make that happen on our own. Well, you you may also want to wait
until after the election. That way, you'll have two new members. So, it might be a better way to get them in instead of bringing them in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. It's an example. So, so all right, sounds like we all want to get this appraised.
Um, what should we do to formalize that? Do we So, I can I can proceed with getting it appraised and then you can decide on next steps. All right. Great. So, we don't need to vote on that or anything. You're good with that. All right. Fantastic. Thank you very much. And last but not least, discussion on
budget, capital plan, annual town meeting warrant articles. Any discussion on any of that tonight? Not hearing any. Did the warrant get milled out? So, it's supposed to go to the um post office
tomorrow. It's at the It's at the mailing house right now. Okay. So, we're on track. We're on track. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to bring it up now, but maybe it's it's definitely not a conversation for this year, and I thought I had it with me, but I took it out of my work bag. Um but in conquered
again, they just switched this year to instead of No, not postcards. They're using their local newspaper and their warrant is an insert in the paper. Oh, and they are it's a pull out insert and their entire warrant is there. It's in the mailing that gets sent to the entire
community and saving a substantial amount of money versus printing the entire book to send to each community. I did have I do have a copy of it. I will bring it next week to just to share. Yeah, I'd be curious to see it. It actually came out really nice. Um there was a lot of apprehension, a lot of community, you know, that would be
something that we'd have to talk about, but as we were just talking about the warrant, um it actually worked out quite well. So just it might have implications, too. I I don't know the exact language of the charter, right? But I think part of the complication was that it's in the charter that we have to mail it out and I don't know specific
Oh, the bylaw. Okay. Yeah. So it's so by So it is getting mailed. It's Well, yeah, of course. I just don't know what the language is. I just wanted to bring it up. Does everyone get the paper there? I don't know if the ledger still does these town mailing once a month. I don't know that they still do. They used
to do it twice a year. Twice a year, but I I don't know that they This is the conquered bridge. Yeah. Okay. Um this is the first year they've done it. Just came out. Um and it actually did. So, I like the postcard idea. I don't know how other communities do it. Again, I hate
to keep bringing it up, but if it's a money saver, and I know that this is something that gets brought up, it came up as the budget task force. It did. It's the money. It's also the timeline, right? Having to get it to the printer. It's just it Yeah. So, I've
um I haven't been in a community where we mailed the warrant, but I I've been in a community where we mailed something, right? And we switched it was in an envelope. Everybody threw it on the counter and we switched to a postcard with a QR code and then had like where the warrant is available and
how you can receive it or how we can get it to you if you can't use a QR code. And there was certainly apprehension before the change happened, right? But once the change happened, the realization that folks actually because
it was a postcard, they were looking at it, right? And before it was different, we're saving a lot of trees. Yeah. Yes. Instead of opening it and Yeah. trees, money, and time the book open. Yeah. Sorry, you said envelopes, but but I think a lot like what is this? I don't know what this is. Some people get it
and it's I mean a lot of money for the for the 500 people perhaps that are actually so like 500 people that are actually to show up after I leave here. But how many how much money does it cost? It costs um Well, I don't have the final number yet, but um a little over
7,000 and that's twice a year. Twice a year. So each each time is seven grand. Okay. Yep. But it's really also the time, the crunch time. Yeah. The postcard would be great cuz then the QR code can be up, the website can be updated, right? Mhm. Yeah. So ongoing conversation. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't that
was an action item. I like the way they do it now. I think it's perfect. Actually, I really like that it, you know, artificially shrinks our timeline. I like the fact that somebody has it and it's there to determine nobody can say, "Hey, I didn't get this and what is this all about?" I
mean, people have to willingly not want to participate instead of saying like other bodies in town where it's like I didn't get any notification and you like how did this happen? And so yeah, I'm
for notification to people. I agree. All right. Any other budget discussion? All right. Minutes, warrants, action items. I believe the only ones that we're actually reviewing tonight are January 30th, 2024. Is that correct? Correct. Action item is the only I do have one. Oh, we're still on minutes. Oh, sorry.
Yeah. Oh, we're still on minutes. I didn't know we started on minutes. Okay. Oh, we always start on minutes. Uh January 30th, 2024. Have we all reviewed this? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, there's two like Sarah Camera's name is with an H. Sarah with an H. Oh, yes. Sarah. Yeah.
And there was two things that I saw this morning and now I didn't I said, "Oh, I'll remember them when I get here." One of them is near the end um in uh let me just find it quickly.
It was in the Is it statute instead of statute of limit? No, no, no. It wasn't a It wasn't a correction. It was the fact that it was talking about something that it didn't wasn't clear what was being talked about. I will just point out while you're looking at that at the on the first page um there's one
instance where um it says member Jeff instead of chair Jeff it says chair Jeff everywhere else that just needs to be fixed just caught that oh I see under public comment yes comment report. Oh, so under current business,
it said discussion on common Vitler's license compliance and it says chair Jeff reported the company has not come forward, but it doesn't say anything about what company it is that they're talking about. Yeah. Let me see. Want me to look at the agenda real quick? We can probably I'm going to look
at that and under the next discussion item. Okay. You know, override is one word and committee doesn't have three M's in it. Can you make those? Yeah, I can do that. Okay. So, committee, two M's and then the override. Oh, I see the space here. Yeah, there was some other
place that something else was talked about in reference and didn't talk about um it wasn't clear what somebody was referring to, but it doesn't matter. Those are the ones I came up with. Okay. I wonder if Michael might remember why
I'm pulling up the transcript. I can pull up the agenda real quick. It's going to take two seconds. What are you looking for? I'm going to look at the agenda from that meeting to see what the common Vic license was that we were discussing. Take two seconds. All right, let's go
back to January. What was it again? January 20th. January 30th. 30. No, 20th. Oh, 30th. Yeah, you're right. Sorry. I couldn't get 2024 up earlier, but maybe it's been fixed. I got it. Okay. All right. January 30th, select board
meeting. Let's look. Okay, let's see. Oh, it just says vaguely discussion on common VIC license compliance. So, I have no idea who that's even referring to. Remember what this was about? Yeah.
No. All right. We'll just have to look that up. I have to let me I'll pull the minutes and see if it triickers a memory. All right, let me find it. So, discussion on common Vic license compliance. Chair Jeff reported the company has not come forward to submit a
permit request, but has continued to operate. They are scheduled to appear before the board on the 13th. I remember this. I vaguely remember this, but I don't know who it's about. Well, let me go. Was it Boulder? What is the What is the date again? 2024. January January
30, 2024. Oh, last year. Well, I'm going to look at the 13th now because it references that they're going to come before the board on the 13th. So, let's go to what I'm assuming is February 13th. We don't have January in our 2024 meetings. Oh, I'm looking at the actual calendar. This was um this is Lobalena.
Oh, okay. Lobalena. Yeah, probably. Or whatever when they did change the reboot maybe. Yeah, let me just confirm. So, I'm going to look at February 13th, but that's that's probably right. Um public hearing. Can we also make a
note? I don't see it on the agenda. It says it was going to be on the agenda, but it's not. She They're busy. The January I'm not crazy. The January folder is not there, right? Or looks like a lot of names aren't there. There's only eight there. So it's like 3
months. Yeah, cuz as I said until May, we readressed it. It was July. It was August. It's Conrads. So, no September. Oh, there is a September. Conrads and no December. Yeah. All
right. So, we figured it out. Oopsie. Okay. Um while we're still talking about this, this maybe should be action items, but um in our drive 2024 is missing a bunch of I was going to look at the folder. It's missing four months. So, when we did the migration from Google,
it must not have all come over. Okay. Cuz I was going to look and see if there was something in the Yeah. Yeah. That's why I just went to the calendar. I always never do that. Um, but we figured it out. So, any other changes to the minutes? Nope. All right. Is there a motion to
approve the minutes for January 30th, 2024? So moved. Second. Any additional discussion? Those in favor say I. I. Those opposed, no. The motion passes unanimously. All right. On to um well, actually warrants. We're doing warrants. So, we don't have the full Are you guys
okay with not passing down that huge stack? Can we just pass over this top thing? Mhm. Sure. Okay. What do we have here? We have an accounts payable warrant in the amount of 1,562,53457. So, while we're doing this, I Oh, go ahead. I think it's really I don't know if this actually has a warrant comment,
but I think it's really important. Uh I know that with the change in pay um you know that we don't uh we're signing a lot of those digitally but I do think it's I think it's a lot of value uh in and and publicly stating you know the
values that we're signing for payroll and other things. So maybe if we don't if we continue to sign maybe start mentioning meetings. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually that's a really good point. Any other action items? Yes. I'm sorry.
Go ahead. No, no. I the you know, we we spent ARPA money and we had all lots of years of meetings about the flooding on Flat Hill. It would be interesting to get some report. Oh, now that that drainage basin has been redone and
inspected by our own people, our own engineer, uh what the condition is there. Has it affected it at all? Okay. I can tell you at stormwater task force, we asked Bill about it. He's gotten no calls. So, that's a good sign.
That's a good sign. Yeah. Good sign. Now, we've had some significant rains lately. Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, we've had some We can explicitly reach out to them. Yeah. See if they'd want to even just Well, just I mean, I'm announcing it here and there were people
from that area that have come here many times. So it would be interesting to see. Yeah, for sure. All right. Anything else? Yeah. Um, action item tracker, which we had started. Yes. But did that ever go anywhere? Did we Are we using
Yeah, it's we have it. So, we add to it file that says from 1980. I don't if anyone else sees that. I don't know if it was ever added to SharePoint. We might not have We might not have it in SharePoint. We added it to the drive. Okay. So, we can move that over. Thank you. Just cuz I went to look cuz I was
like, I know they had some things. And then there is one in here, but it says it's from 1980, which is obviously it's not. I don't know why that says that. Those are still ongoing. Work in progress. It actually is from 2024. You can't rush government to be crazy, right? No, you're not crazy.
Okay. Thank you. I mean, I don't know that that I don't know that this proves that you're not crazy, but yes, the date says 1980. Okay. Any other action items? I wasn't alive yet. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Committee reports. I wasn't alive either.
I'm tired. Committee reports. I don't have any. None. None. I still owe an economic development committee. None. All right. I don't have any either. All right. Upcoming meetings. We are meeting next week, April 22nd, May 3rd,
and at 9:00 a.m. And that's the annual town meeting. Public comment. Are there any public comment from the town manager? No. Any public comment from the public? Not seeing any on Zoom either. Any public comment from the
board? No. All right. With that, I will move to enter into executive session and not re-enter open session after exiting executive session pursuant to MGL chapter 30 section 21A3 or two to conduct strategy sessions
in preparation for negotiations with non-un personnel or contract negotiations with nonun personnel. police chief. Second. Any additional discussion? Those in favor? Oh, nope. This will be a roll call vote. Renee I. Tom. I. Amanda. I. Michael Ray. Hi. And
I for myself. We are now in executive session. We are not entering reopen session. So for everyone who tuned in tonight, thank you very much. We will see you next week and enjoy the rest of your