WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=88WCAj-HMbk Part: 1 1 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:20.880 All right. Good evening, Lunberg. Um, I am opening the Lunberg Sewer Commission meeting for the evening. Um, my name is Brett Mston. I'm the chairman of the Lunberg Sewer Commission. And, um, we're going to start the meeting as we always 2 00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:36.880 do by asking everybody to join me in uh, in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, 3 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:53.280 one nation under God, indivisible, >> with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Uh, in accordance with the requirements of open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting of the sewer commission is being recorded and 4 00:00:53.280 --> 00:01:09.360 will be able to be found on the Lunberg Access YouTube channel after the meeting. The following information is also provided for members of the public that would like to participate in the meeting remotely. uh to piss part participate 5 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:32.159 remotely from a computer. Please use the link to join the public meeting webinar found on the posted agenda or from a telephone dial or toll-free number 888-4754499 and enter the webinar ID number 8318724994. Uh if you have not registered with Zoom, 6 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:49.040 you will be asked for your name and email address. Note, no participant ID is needed. Just press pound when asked. Uh I will do a roll call vote to confirm that all members and staff are are present. And when I call your name, 7 00:01:49.040 --> 00:02:06.560 please respond in the affirmative. Uh Scott Dah. >> Hi. >> Dan Proctor. Hi. >> Arthur Cadis. Hi, >> Chip Wilson. >> Hi, >> and I for myself. And following with the 8 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:22.720 staff, uh we'll start with Bill Bernard >> here. >> Andrew Vier >> here, >> and Jane Ranley >> here. >> Thank you all. Um, I will ask now if there's any public 9 00:02:22.720 --> 00:02:41.131 present and any other public possible public comments andor comments from the commission or staff at this time. >> Did you say public comments for the public or just for the commission and staff? >> Anybody present? 10 00:02:41.131 --> 00:02:57.120 [clears throat] >> Yeah. Uh, my name is Aaron Steves. I'm uh here representing 100 Laurel Lane. uh project. I saw that we were on the agenda. Uh I guess I have a couple questions regarding that uh bid. So I 11 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:13.280 don't know when it's appropriate to speak up, but if now is the time. Uh I just have a couple questions on that if that's possible. >> Yes, absolutely. Um we're glad you're here and uh you're we're more than interested in what you have to say. Uh 12 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:29.440 we'll be starting with uh we follow the uh agenda as it rolls. We start with the minutes and we move on to uh the director and manager updates at which time the second um and when we come to your 13 00:03:29.440 --> 00:03:44.640 um your part of the discussion and we will certainly ask for your input sir. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> All right. Uh and at this time we'll start with reviewing uh uh potentially 14 00:03:44.640 --> 00:04:03.840 voting approval for the minutes uh for July 14th, 2026. Does anybody have any questions or corrections or would you like to um offer um 15 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:25.639 I'll make a motion to accept the minutes. >> Yes. Could that be seconded? >> I'll second that. >> All right. Um, we're going to start with um Scott Doll. >> All right. 16 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:43.120 >> Yes. Can you hear me? >> Is that a yay? >> Yeah, it's a yay. >> All right. And we'll go to Dan Proctor. Hi, >> Arthur. >> Hi, >> Chip. >> Hi. >> I was not present, so I will not vote. 17 00:04:43.120 --> 00:05:00.240 Um, thank you all. The minutes pass as approved, and we're going to move on to the sewer business manager director updates. Um, starting with the CTE contract renewal. Um, Bill or Andrew, um, if you 18 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:16.560 take the baton from here for a few minutes, let us know where we stand there. >> Yeah. So, I'll take it. So, um, I put together the new contract language or the bidding language. 19 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:32.080 So, we they had the uh town council look at it and it should be advertised as Mass General Law 30B, which is a service contract. The previous contract went out 20 00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:49.520 as a Mass General Law 3039, which is a construction contract, but given the nature of the work, it truly is a a service contract. So, we're going to get it right this time. Um, but that kind of took a little time 21 00:05:49.520 --> 00:06:05.360 going back and forth with town council. So, it hasn't hit the street yet. Um, we're planning on doing a one month extension of time for the current contract and that'll buy us enough time 22 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:20.160 to to get it out on the street and advertised and and awarded in time. >> Excellent. So the only one drawback as being a 30B service contract if they 23 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:37.840 have to do any work that constitutes construction they can't do it. We have to enter into separate agreements or separate contracts to do construction work. So something 24 00:06:37.840 --> 00:06:55.199 like a scheduled pump replacement that would be considered construction. So would if if it's under $10,000 if they give us cost estimate we could give it to our contractor. If it's over $10,000 then I have to go out the bid 25 00:06:55.199 --> 00:07:11.919 for that work. >> So >> you're aware of this? I assume >> yes >> it will be. >> Yeah. And this is pretty standard um how a lot of towns are doing it. We're just getting caught up on it where we 26 00:07:11.919 --> 00:07:32.160 should be. Um so there's a there's a flaw in the law, right? It's basically you can't do service and construction at the same time. So there there is a way to do that. the state legislature can do 27 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:48.960 separate legislation allowing Lunenburgg sewer to do that type of work. So we talked with town council. They're going to put together the language for that. So we'll start with with the sewer commission here. You guys will have to 28 00:07:48.960 --> 00:08:04.879 vote say yes this is what we want to do. Then we'll have to bring it forward to town meeting. have town meeting vote. Yes, this is what we want to do. And then we'd have to reach out to our state rep and say, you know, can you put this forward, 29 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:20.720 special legislation for us so that we can have this contract that's both servicing and construction >> for a 30-day period. >> Yeah, a lot of towns have done it already. So, it's nothing too special, but 30 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:37.120 >> sounds like a few hoops to uh >> Right. Right. >> Um, question for you. >> Um, Mr. Director, that would also cover my big concern of having them separate, of course, 31 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:52.560 uh, beyond the whole aspect of having to go to bid and so forth. Um, I would also be concerned of with emergency construction needed, you know, and or that falls under another heading anyway 32 00:08:52.560 --> 00:09:07.839 because I know Yeah, I think emergency they can do right Bill. >> Yes. So under 30B Mass General 30B the service contract they can handle emergencies up to the point where they get everything stabilized. They you know 33 00:09:07.839 --> 00:09:25.760 they can't get into replace parts but you know stabilizing the system getting everything back operating they can do >> whatever that entails obviously. >> Right. Right. But if it gets to the point where, well, we have to replace a 34 00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:43.040 pump or or something else, then it has to go out to bid. But but you know, they recognize, yeah, we got to stabilize the system, that's allowed. >> And Bill, you said as long as it's under 10 grand, we can still do the pro and do 35 00:09:43.040 --> 00:10:00.240 what we have, right? >> Doug. Okay. >> Right. So procurement law, anything under 10 grand, you can get a quote or two or three and you can give it to the lowest bidder. Well, the you don't even have to be the lowest. It' be the one that you feel is the most capable. 36 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:16.320 >> So if there's certain work that needs to be done and we ask CTE for a quote and it's under 10 grand, we can award it to them, but it would be separate from our from their service contract. 37 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:35.120 So, a little more paperwork, a little little more work for us, but we we can manage. >> Very good. Uh, does anybody have any questions for the director regarding this? >> All right, having heard none, um, I 38 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:52.480 guess we will move forward. And next on the agenda is 100 oral lane bid. Um and Bill, um going to ask you for an update on that one as well. >> Yeah. So, we we put out a invitation for 39 00:10:52.480 --> 00:11:07.680 bid to install, um three laterals um pressure lines from the the the nearest manhole down to the property line at 100 Laurel Lane. I only got two bids. Um 40 00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:25.120 bidder number one was around $20,000. the the the IFB re said you have to submit your bid and certain paperwork um you know OSHA cards and 41 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:40.480 different legal forms. The bidder neglected to give us any of these extra forms. So we have to throw the bid out. Bidder number two came in at $50,000. 42 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:58.480 >> Geez. obviously over our budget. So the the language allows us to throw that one out too because it's nowhere near our budget. So here we are again back to square one >> unfortunately. 43 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:14.720 So the plan is I guess to to repackage it or maybe we can come up with something else. Maybe uh I don't know. We got to put a little thought into it. See if we can find a way to do it a 44 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:31.760 little less expensive and maybe a little quicker. >> You know, I I have an idea. I'm not sure if it make it work, so I don't want to throw it out there yet, but I'm going to work on that. >> All right. Appreciate that. 45 00:12:31.760 --> 00:12:47.600 >> Um All right. Great. Does anybody present have any input on the 100 Laurel Lane bid? >> Yeah. So, Bill, thank you. I got your email. This is Aaron Steves. I got your email this morning. And apologies, guys. 46 00:12:47.600 --> 00:13:03.360 I'm uh on baby duty and actively at the playground right now. Uh so if you hear my son in the background um but uh yeah we've been at this for you know including the building permit 47 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:19.600 14 months and been coordinating with Bill for 11 months and understand that there are challenges to getting these bids in but we're trying to figure out you know I think as Bill alluded to a way to expedite this a bit because you know if we running if we're running into 48 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:35.200 the moratorum again. Uh we're trying to avoid that cuz basically I'm trying to just get my father into this ADU this year if possible. So I myself am a general contractor. I think I've offered to Bill that I you know if if I could 49 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:52.160 get my hands on the RFP I I could find I I'll go out and try to find other biders. like if there's anything I can do to assist the process and expedite this. Like I'm just trying to figure out is there any way we can move this along a little bit quicker because it's, you know, costing my family a lot of money 50 00:13:52.160 --> 00:14:07.680 uh to maintain the situation that we're in. Uh my father's also on the call who had paid for the betterment years ago. We thought we thought that the uh work was done in the street. Apparently, it wasn't done. So, you know, we're just kind of going around and around and 51 00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:23.839 around and trying to get to the bottom of it. So that's kind of where we we are at and trying to ask you guys here how we can possibly make this move a little faster. >> Yep. >> Yeah. So 52 00:14:23.839 --> 00:14:39.600 this this has on longer than it should have unfortunately. Um like I said to Aaron in the email today, the construction plan shows >> I have two Sure. 53 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:56.800 >> Um, >> two asbuilt drawings show these lines installed back in the early 2000s, >> but after multiple investigations, we found out those lines are not there. So, and then like you said, the 54 00:14:56.800 --> 00:15:12.959 moratorum we ran into November 15th, we can't cut the road, right? Because coming. So, we that's pushed us out into the spring and yeah, the bidding process takes a while, unfortunately. But, 55 00:15:12.959 --> 00:15:30.399 >> like I said, I'm trying to find an alternative way to to do this instead of going out to bid. But, >> what was what was the um Didn't we get a price back from a contractor before we decided that had to go to bid? 56 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:48.160 Well, I just went out to bid earlier um on a different plan. We thought maybe do it as um >> gravity. >> Okay. >> And but >> that that didn't work out either. And 57 00:15:48.160 --> 00:16:05.600 the prices there were between 15,000 and like 20,000. I got it. I did get a few bids on that. So, >> I figured pressure lines probably easier. I was hoping around 15,000. 58 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:23.600 >> Yeah. >> But both bids came in high. >> So, this is a Gary Steves on the property. Um, you're you're putting in three lines. >> Yes. So, one for the ADU and one for the 59 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:40.639 main house and there's one more house beyond you, right? if they ever wanted to connect that there would be a stub there for them. >> All right. Um, now for the ADU and and the house, the line coming from the house is going to be going right 60 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:56.720 alongside the uh the ADU. They can they can meet up together somewhere in in between there and just only have, you know, one line to the house to the to the uh to the manhole or whatever is going to be there. 61 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:11.839 All right. >> You would have to have an engineer tell me that that's okay or or somebody from E1 or if Mahoney say that that is possible. But putting >> I'm just trying to keep the the price of 62 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:29.039 the whole thing at minimal, you know, so that we're not paying for extra stuff that should have been taken care of before. I I've been here since October 1st, 2001, and no one has dug up that street. my well my u easement 63 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:46.559 for the uh for the person at 104. >> So this is Dan Proctor. I'm I'm one of the commissioners. So the price of the line is not the expense. >> The price of the the whole project is the road repair, the jackhammering of the ledge, what have you. So the bottom 64 00:17:46.559 --> 00:18:02.000 line is 120 ft of inch and a half line is less than $200. So that's why, you know, that's why the three lines are going to go in there just because that makes sense. Once the trench is dug, we're going to put the lines there. So each unit has its own separate line. 65 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:17.200 That was the rationale of that. >> Okay. So I guess where do we where do we stand now? Because if this thing needs to go back out to bid, so like is there an RFP that has been generated that's going 66 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:33.760 out? Is there like what what are the next steps because you know we just don't want to be stuck in a holding pattern again for the next six months and end up at the moratorium again is kind of our main concern. >> Right. >> Right. So yeah 67 00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:50.720 the bid language is all put together. Right. We already went out once. So I'm just going to use the same language. Um I'll just double check it. Maybe I'll talk to the bidder that went way high and see what made him go so high, you know, try to correct that. But I should 68 00:18:50.720 --> 00:19:07.120 be able to get it out fairly quick. But again, I'm going to try another option, but it may or may not work. And the other option would be quicker. So, >> well, you're ultimately in charge of that November 15th deadline. So, I mean, 69 00:19:07.120 --> 00:19:21.440 >> that's true. >> Years pass. I mean, there's been plenty of opportunities we could have worked into, you know, December to J. I mean, depending weather dependent. So, I mean, I understand Aaron's point, but at the same time, I guess Aaron, 70 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:38.000 um, if we get them back and, you know, we're near that November 15th, whatever, Bill can say to the contractor, hey, listen, we have a decent weather window here. I mean, so there's a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel for that, 71 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:54.960 >> you know, piece of the whole thing, but you know, I understand. [clears throat] >> Yeah. I I So that's great. It's good to hear. Um I think like last year we went into the moratorum and then I I basically didn't hear but anything until the moratorum was over and then 72 00:19:54.960 --> 00:20:10.000 basically we were at the point we were where we were starting the bid process. >> Now all these months later, we're kind of back here again. So, I'm just I I want to figure out a way that I can understand better where we're at. And as 73 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:26.320 I kind of mentioned, like I would even be willing to uh assist in trying to get more biders to respond to this because I have four or five site contractors that I work with all the time that I'm sure are more than ready, willing, and able to to bid 74 00:20:26.320 --> 00:20:43.280 on something like this. So, uh I if pretty much communication and uh some way to have some clarity into where we are currently at would be really helpful for me, you know, and 75 00:20:43.280 --> 00:21:00.080 sorry, my son is uh chasing me around here. Uh and just some way that I can understand where we're at and push this along would be >> really helpful. A copy of the RFP, >> etc., you know, so Bill, if you can share that with me, 76 00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:16.320 is that is that possible? You know, is my question. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Probably on the town website, isn't it? >> It's Well, it's down now. No. >> Oh, okay. >> You had to request it, but um Aaron, I could send it to you tomorrow. >> Okay. Yeah, that would be great. And 77 00:21:16.320 --> 00:21:32.480 then uh so if I can get a copy of that and then I guess all the information that is needed on there for for biders should obviously be in the RFP, right? >> That's correct. Yeah. >> Okay. >> To your contractors. 78 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:47.280 >> Yeah. I mean, I will pull out all the stops. I'll get 10 bids in this thing. Like I'll just I got to get this project done. So whatever needs to happen, you know, I'm willing to put my time and energy into it to make it happen. So, if if you can share that with me, Bill, I'd really appreciate that. And then I think 79 00:21:47.280 --> 00:22:03.840 if that's the only thing stopping us at this point, then uh that's clear enough, you know, then I have my marching orders >> and we'll make this thing happen. >> Yeah. Find a find a bunch of contractors you feel good about. 80 00:22:03.840 --> 00:22:20.799 >> Yeah. I mean, ultimately, it's going to we'll get to a point where we understand, hey, this is the price. If we get five five bids in and they're all 50 grand, then I don't think there's any other option, right? Like I think I think we we've paid for the betterment. So like if it's my understanding that 81 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:37.200 like does the town legally need to do this at this point? >> Yes, we owe you that stuff. >> Okay. So So I think we got to get to the bottom of hey, we've got enough bids at this point that we understand that there's not really going to be any more flexibility in the pricing here. This is 82 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:54.880 the scope of work. this is the challenge that's in front of us. So, if it comes in at 47,500 bucks and that's the lowest bid and we're confident with it, then >> I think that's just is what it is, right? >> Yeah. Hopefully, it doesn't come in that high like 83 00:22:54.880 --> 00:23:10.000 20 grand. >> I hear you. I I hear you. I'm with you. And like for my part, I would try to get, you know, as many bids as I can. Uh and hopefully we can get this thing down. But, you know, at the end of the day, we got to get this thing done. much. >> Yeah, >> that's all that's all I had to say. I appreciate it, Bill. So, I'll look out 84 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:25.440 for that tomorrow. Thank you everybody for your time. >> Have a good night. >> All right. Thanks, folks. >> Thank you. All right. Um, is there any other further discussion? 85 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:40.559 >> I I guess I'm all set with what Aaron had to say, so we'll just have to uh keep pushing. >> Yeah. And uh good luck with that, Aaron. and um and Gary and we we hope this moves along 86 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:56.159 >> at a decent pace for you and so we can uh get you connected before the before the end of the year for the end of the season. >> Thank you so much, guys. Appreciate it. Bye. >> Thank you. >> All right, gentlemen. 87 00:23:56.159 --> 00:24:20.080 Let me bring my computer back up. Um any moment now. All right. Um, so moving on to uh upcoming and uh completed pump station repairs. Andrew, do you have uh any input on that for me? >> I do. The one that we just completed for 88 00:24:20.080 --> 00:24:35.360 Francis Street, the pump station replacement that came in a little higher at 7468, but that's been completed. Uh I don't think I think we had this on the agenda for a la like last November bill, right? But we we had to move it up a little 89 00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:51.919 bit. Um so the more that we wait on things, the more expensive it's going to be, unfortunately. So um and that's the only concern that I have with the upcoming contract of not being able to you said, Bill, if it's under 10 grand, we can get them done. Okay. As long as 90 00:24:51.919 --> 00:25:08.400 they're under 10 grand, and I think there's a few of them that I sent to you that are under 10 grand and they stay under 10 grand, we they've already been approved of, they'd be done. Uh the contract doesn't expire until August 20, what was it? Second, >> I think 26. Okay. So hopefully uh 91 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:25.440 they'll uh get on to do a couple more beforehand if possible. But, uh, like I said, there are a couple that are over 10 grand, but these are really important jobs that we need to get done, uh, to make sure the pump stations are functioning. Uh, they're completely 92 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:42.320 operational without any issues. So, so like I said, the uh, contract, you know, having going to put up to bid, it just I feel like it just delays things, but that's how we have to do it. >> All right. Very good. Any questions for 93 00:25:42.320 --> 00:26:02.480 Andrew from uh any commissioners? All right. Um and Andrew, um I guess we'll move on to the uh first quarter FY27 sewer billing. >> You'll be happy to know that they've been completed. They've been print. I printed them out today and took me a 94 00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:18.640 whole five days to do them. >> How long? >> Five days. >> Wow. So that that brings it down from what was it at one point there, Bill? Two weeks. Yeah. >> With multiple uh with three or four 95 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:33.679 people working, right? >> Yeah. >> But that's probably three days too many. >> It's it's kind of ridiculous. He literally has to go through every single customer to make sure it's >> all a thousand accounts, right? has to 96 00:26:33.679 --> 00:26:50.159 look at every single one because you can't trust our system at all. >> Right. Yeah. Unfortunately, what the immun system does, it puts um numbers really where they shouldn't belong, especially uh even in the reports the um readings that are technically, you know, 97 00:26:50.159 --> 00:27:06.080 the ones that you're supposed to watch and look for. Um, I for an example, I'd want to count if I didn't manually go through them like I did last quarter and this quarter, uh, we would have charged one customer $163,000 out of nowhere. So, uh, that is that is 98 00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:21.600 the system for >> there was a a dot in the wrong spot or something on that. >> Yeah, it just what can we do about that is I mean, is that system you have to use? I don't it's in my head but >> we we are the town stuck with pitch 99 00:27:21.600 --> 00:27:37.440 broadcast use it a lot of towns do so I mean they they do have a lot of issues with them uh with the program but it's you just gota it does get complicated uh at times especially with the multiple meters and um >> well we all appreciate your efforts and 100 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:54.960 >> absolutely yep I'm I'm glad I'm glad that you know it's done and if anyone does have any issues and knock on would uh cuz I've gone back multiple times and I had my assistant also look at numbers too um that this quarter uh like last quarter will knock on wood be just as 101 00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:13.440 fine as last quarter. Very good. Thank you, sir. And um all right, looks like we're going to be moving on to talking about the 990 Massav expansion uh expansion of use. um looking for maybe some kind of update 102 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:29.120 from Director Bill. >> Yeah. So, Andrew and I met with town council and we went over our regulations and we specifically looked at this situation which is kind of unique for us. You know, they they changed the 103 00:28:29.120 --> 00:28:45.120 single family home. He's in the process of changing it to a a multifamily home. So typically on a multifamily home, we charge two connections fees and two betterments. 104 00:28:45.120 --> 00:29:00.799 So in this case, we we had the one betterment and one connection fee and then he added the bedroom, right? Well, so we I saw it in a a building plan and 105 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:16.000 so you know, we collected the extra expansion and use money, but you know, after after you know, Dan kind of brought it up said, "I don't think that's quite right." And you he was right. You know, we went through it with 106 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:33.600 town council. So, at this point, it hasn't been converted yet. So the the owner is in front of the ZBA trying to get it changed from single family to multif family. So once that's approved, 107 00:29:33.600 --> 00:29:49.600 I think at that point we have to go to him and say here's our regulation. Here's what it says, right? We can charge the extra connection fee, the extra betterment. Um but we when he first applied the 108 00:29:49.600 --> 00:30:06.080 connection fee is for three bedrooms. At that point he had four bedrooms. So at that point there was an extra 550 charged. So town council said we actually we'll have to give him back that 550 at at that point. 109 00:30:06.080 --> 00:30:20.399 >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Makes sense. But he's going to have to pay the extra betterment. 50 and then he asked. Yeah, that's >> that sounds right. >> Okay. 110 00:30:20.399 --> 00:30:37.200 >> So, one thing with Betterments that comes up pretty much every time we talk with town council about Betterments. So, the Betterments are there to pay back the original 111 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:53.039 construction cost. So nobody's really checked if we've connect if we've collected you know through betterments the original construction cost. So 112 00:30:53.039 --> 00:31:08.799 once we hit that point we can't charge anymore. So we're not we're not quite sure where we're at. So it's kind of a gray area >> if we should actually be charging going forward. >> Right. And I think that's why it was um 113 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:24.080 from what I recall that's why they now we just call it a privilege fee to connect a sewer worded differently from an additional betterment. >> Yeah. So I don't know. I guess at some point we 114 00:31:24.080 --> 00:31:43.279 probably should try to do that math >> to to figure out if we've covered the original construction cost. >> But that would be a big project. So, I just wanted to throw it out there in case anybody ever challenges us on 115 00:31:43.279 --> 00:32:01.519 that. >> Well, I think one of the big things is obviously consistency is king. Correct. So, if we're consistent across the board >> with it, then, you know, I I would think that would be a ball in our court that obviously we're not trying to hit 116 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:16.640 someone harder than someone else type of thing. I mean that's that's pretty simple. >> Yeah. >> philosophy. >> So our regulations say we can charge >> Yeah. >> the betterment or the privilege fee. It 117 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:32.559 doesn't mention you know that it's only supposed to be up to a point right up to the original construction cost. It doesn't say that. It just says that we can charge it >> right. >> So you know talking about town council he said be consistent. He says, "I can 118 00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:49.120 defend you if you're consistent. If you're jumping all over the place," he says, "now you're, you know, you're wide open. Somebody's gonna eat that up." >> All right. What h how far back are we looking at for this >> 2005? 119 00:32:49.120 --> 00:33:04.480 >> Hold on. I'm sorry. >> All right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Sidewalk. >> I just pulled over to get off the street. Make a quick call. >> Okay. Sidewalk. >> All right. So, I should stop in the middle of the street. >> Side of the road by the curb. 120 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:20.880 >> All right. Just give the cops a call. I'll take care of it. >> Jesus. Lemons is great. Um, sorry. What I want the original construction cost. We We're talking 121 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:36.159 about the sewer construction cost, right? And we're talking about, you know, connecting whenever we established our sewer system. So, what year are we actually going back? >> 2005. >> 2005. >> We're not talking about like going back 122 00:33:36.159 --> 00:33:51.919 to 1906. And if somebody traded a couple goats for a connection, you know, somebody should have a receipt at some point when it's been in the last 30 years. Right. >> Right. Right. So, this bulk of the sewer 123 00:33:51.919 --> 00:34:08.000 went in in 2005 to 10 somewhere on there. Then it was expanded in like 2014. So, [clears throat] most of the connections are on the the original the 2005. [clears throat] >> Yeah. 124 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:24.800 >> Okay. I mean, it doesn't seem like it would be that hard for the property owner to produce, but >> what do you mean by that? >> Well, you No, no, I'm sorry. the the original cost. You know, if you were 125 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:42.240 talking about I if it's paid off, we have a gray area of if it paid for the original construction cost, right? Wasn't that what was what we were talking about? >> Yeah. Right. So, the to do on that math, 126 00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:58.880 >> but if it's been Yeah. If it's been repaid, we can't charge over that supposedly. That's >> the defining gray area. Well, we at that point we shouldn't be charging betterments at all. >> No, no. I I understand. So, you're 127 00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:18.480 talking about if we were being challenged, but being challenged would also be they would have to prove that this has been settled. >> Exactly. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Like I said, we're being consistent. We might as well know if somebody's you now 128 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:36.960 this is out there. There'll be somebody that'll challenge it and we just got to know, you know, what to ask for. >> That would be their prerogative, I would imagine. >> Yeah. Right. >> Why don't you just change everything 129 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:52.880 into a connection fee and don't call it a betterment fee ever again? >> Yeah. or somebody has to go back into all the numbers, figure out what the original contract for the sewer was in 2005 and who paid what and >> Right. 130 00:35:52.880 --> 00:36:08.800 >> like a lot of work, right? >> Yeah. Right. At some point, we should do that exercise, right? >> Who has all the information? >> PC passio building. >> Yeah, probably. >> I'm not doing it. 131 00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:31.710 >> Yeah. Right. just just gathering the information. That's the hard [clears throat] part. Doing the math. >> It sounds like the whoever is the uh clerk of the sewer commission board should probably get through the paperwork. >> I'll get right on it. [laughter] 132 00:36:32.560 --> 00:36:48.400 >> All right. I just wanted to throw that out there only because All right. Now we, you know, we're getting somewhere, but We just don't know when. >> Yeah. No, at this point it's it's just a heads up in case anybody ever challenges 133 00:36:48.400 --> 00:37:10.640 us. >> Mhm. >> All right, then. Well, this will be this will fall under the heading of uh it'll be fun to find out. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh do we have any more questions? um by the director regarding 134 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:27.440 the 990 massav expansion of use. Seeing none, um let's uh move on to future agenda items uh that we want to if anybody has any ideas to put up there 135 00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:43.200 other than what we know will be up there. I'd like to put on there why like let's not kick the can down the road. Let's figure out the betterment 136 00:37:43.200 --> 00:37:58.880 versus a connection fee, right? Because if you change that language and you just charge a connection fee at the same cost, right? Then nobody has to go back and do all that work. Correct? 137 00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:12.960 because you're just changing the name of what you're charging them for, >> right? But wouldn't that mean, Bill, that uh and I'm just being the um throwing this question out there, 138 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:32.960 would that also mean that people who new connections that are I'm not sure where I was going with that. I guess the big thing, >> excuse me, Mr. Commission. I guess the big like I understand Chip's you know 139 00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:50.400 thinking but you know when we're talking betterments you know tens of thousands of dollars where connection fees are 3900. So >> that's what I was getting at. Yeah >> there's a there's a big you know spread between those two. So >> how are other towns dealing with this? 140 00:38:50.400 --> 00:39:04.880 Are they dealing? Are there other towns that we could reach out to that maybe have the same problem? Is it anybody else that does has the same problem? >> Probably. I don't know if anybody >> works. 141 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:20.720 >> Yeah. To Chip's point, a fee covers ex an an expense. So, our connection fee, we owe um Lemster or Fitsburg, wherever the it's going to end, we owe them a a 142 00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:36.000 fee and then the rest of the fee is for us to process the information, right? So, so we're at 3,900. So, if we say it's $10,000, but it only cost us $3,900, 143 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:51.680 you know, that's other $6,100. That's not a fee anymore. Now it's a tax, right? And we can't do taxes, right? So you got to be careful with your fees, right? >> You just charge administrative at that 144 00:39:51.680 --> 00:40:12.800 point twice and do one connection to one fee for connection. >> Not quite following your question. >> But but the same thing with a fee. If you're saying it's covering an expense, then it should be something that we can 145 00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:31.119 adjust as needed, not an act of Congress. >> Absolutely. You >> as you say, but expens goes up in a rate 20 years later, we shouldn't have to, you know, be honoring. I'm going to guess the 146 00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:50.000 treatment per gallon, you know, in 2005 is a little different than now. That's correct. So, the the commission has changed the connection fee over the years. The last time was about two years ago or three years ago. >> 23. >> I don't think it was. 147 00:40:50.000 --> 00:41:05.520 >> Yeah. So, three years ago. >> Was it three years ago? I thought it was last year. >> Yeah. Time flies. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. So, you got to be careful with your fees. That's all I'm saying is it, you know, it' be nice. Yeah. let's 148 00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:26.160 charge $10,000, but we we can't justify that. And so at that point, it becomes a tax and and we can't tax. >> All good questions though. >> Anybody else have any further thoughts on this 149 00:41:26.160 --> 00:41:43.280 subject? >> I do agree with Chip. I I think, you know, we can't just keep kicking it down the road, though. we should probably >> really spend some time and try to figure it out and and >> I agree. >> I know Bill and Andrew are >> very busy and I'm not trying to throw 150 00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:59.760 more on their plate, but Chip's right. You know, it is one of those things we probably should figure out. That was the question that I asked. I I don't not sure if it was last meeting or two meetings ago when we were talking about all this with privilege fees and betterments and the difference and what have you. I was under the assumption 151 00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:14.960 that when certain checks came in, they went to different places, meaning different accounts because that's what I thought there was an account that handled all the betterments and and [clears throat] and then at that point when that Betterment was paid off, that that's 152 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:31.119 what I thought, but I could be 100% wrong. I don't know. But that's that's why I thought connection fees go to Fitsburg or Lemster to satisfy what we owe them. But then that goes into your general operating budget of maintaining the you know the mains and what have 153 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:45.760 you. But the betterments was a different type of account andor privilege fees. That's that's what I thought. But anyhow, >> can we can we get some clarification on that, Bill or Andrew? 154 00:42:45.760 --> 00:43:05.280 >> Yeah. So the the betterments go into our uh reserve, right? Which ultimately >> we allocate into our operating budget, right? Once a year when we do our budget, >> right? >> All right. 155 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:20.560 >> So is there something we want to add to the agenda next week even to just kick it around a little more or >> or do we want to hold off? Do we want to >> unfortunately >> unfortunately I think we have to do the work to figure out the numbers. I mean, 156 00:43:20.560 --> 00:43:36.160 finding out what the contract was in '05 is that's simple, right? That's you can find out how many millions of dollars that was, correct? But then unfortunately, somebody has to figure out, you know, 157 00:43:36.160 --> 00:43:51.359 cuz they they can't just pull that out of, you know, the account. >> Sorry, guys. I I know I'm in that dead spot. >> Yeah, that would be in the accounting office, right? because all that money gets paid taxes. 158 00:43:51.359 --> 00:44:07.520 >> What they have potent when they pay the betterment fee, where does that money go? Does it go to the sewer department? Does it go to the >> the town? It go Yeah, it goes towards the um original project that you know the loan that was taken out on it. Um right. I think that's correct. 159 00:44:07.520 --> 00:44:23.920 >> That been paid off forever ago, right? >> Um I don't think I don't think it's all been because the town the town's still paying uh their portion too. So I was going to say it sounds like it's going to be a 160 00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:40.480 town town council will be involved a lot to get this done, wouldn't they? Doing >> maybe not. But >> yeah, so we can get a list from the accounting department of who has a better right? 161 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:57.599 >> I mean, even if we get in the general ballpark, you know, I'm talking within 100 200 grand, >> right? just just are we 70% there? Are we 90% there? Are we six? You know, like we're in a ballpark because then if we know we're in the ballpark, we know, 162 00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:12.640 >> okay, we need to really start paying attention to this and tracking this. >> Probably never going to get the numbers to completely match up across the board everywhere. But >> that time comes you then have to say okay >> we have 163 00:45:12.640 --> 00:45:28.480 >> under under the special assessments um that I have for the betterments for 2026 I mean the remaining is um geez it's almost almost two million >> so we got a little bit of time >> so yeah 164 00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:44.560 >> yeah I mean in the end if that is going towards a dedicated earmarked fund then that's being you repaid on a note. Every dollar is tracked. >> Yep. No, that's tracked. And like I 165 00:45:44.560 --> 00:45:59.599 said, it goes through the taxes. >> That's not something that can be messed around with. >> No. Well, gentlemen, it sounds like we should get this on the agenda because we're sort of having a meeting about it 166 00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:15.359 right now and we certainly have further more things to discuss regarding this. So, let's put this on the agenda for next the next meeting. Um, and we'll certainly dive back in then. Um 167 00:46:15.359 --> 00:46:33.920 and uh I think it's uh definitely the right way to go and kick this around and decide what direction to go. Um and uh and then we'll leave the the rest of agenda items up to um let the 168 00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:52.720 director and Andrew will come up with for us. Um can anybody think of anything else beyond that? No, I know Bill uh met with town council and you know, of course, one item 169 00:46:52.720 --> 00:47:07.680 dragged on a little longer, but did we get our answers on everything that we were trying to throw at him at once or did something get back burnered? >> Yep, we got our answers. Yeah, >> because I thought this was even part of 170 00:47:07.680 --> 00:47:26.720 something that we're waiting on, at least a piece before we could really move forward with it. But I may be wrong at the same time. >> I I think >> like if it's just us, then yeah, we should be pushing this forward more than 171 00:47:26.720 --> 00:47:47.119 it has been. >> Well, I didn't catch all that, but um I was just saying if it if it's just on us, then yeah, we should try to escalate it and push it forward. I think it's worth a discussion, future discussion for sure. 172 00:47:47.119 --> 00:48:05.440 >> Yeah. Agenda for next time. >> So, um then it's officially on the agenda and we'll kick it around as long as we have to and we can all have a couple weeks to think about it. 173 00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:24.240 Um All right. Um, darn [clears throat] it. I let my computer sleep again. >> We'll need to throw the two cents out, you know, in future business. But if we can figure out some way to move the Laurel Lane along, you know, uh, without 174 00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:40.720 missing any deadlines or posting notices or anything like that, I mean, I'm sure this has been going on for a while. Not really any fault of ours at that point, but um you know, especially once we got involved, it was like, well, we pushed 175 00:48:40.720 --> 00:48:56.400 it forward and I hope they understand that we are trying to accommodate them. >> Yeah, it's tough. I can see their point of view for sure. >> Exactly. And and I still remember when the whole when we decided to really 176 00:48:56.400 --> 00:49:13.680 start pushing forward, it was like, well, if it's up to us and we have to find it, let's find where the connection says it should. So, yeah. I mean, we got a lot more information than we did a couple months ago, and it'd be great if we could figure out a way to 177 00:49:13.680 --> 00:49:29.680 before the uh deadline of no digging in the streets uh hits. Well, Bill, you said you had an idea. [clears throat] >> I do. Yeah. I don't think it's ready for public yet, but >> I understand. I 178 00:49:29.680 --> 00:49:45.040 >> I got a I got a good idea in my head what you're thinking. >> All right. >> I got to talk to you. If I may, guys, if I may, um it just it seems like we got two uh bids back. Um, is there any way to make put more uh 179 00:49:45.040 --> 00:50:01.119 opportunity out there for more people to put in more bids? Because he's saying he has five people, but then then he's saying 50,000 and then he's making us say, well, what if it's 47,500 across everybody? >> I mean, it was a shim sham at one point 180 00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:16.800 a little bit. I felt like, you know, so >> I unfortunately right now it's >> I just feel like if he has the power to find five bids, well, what's he doing different than us and we're not finding? >> Right. So, we have what, Andrew? 10 or 181 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:32.160 12 drain layers. Yeah. >> Licensed with us now. So, the bid went to all 10 or 12 and it went to like another 10 or so. It went out to 20 different companies. >> Wow. Yeah, 182 00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:48.800 >> everyone's busy right now. >> Yeah, it's a time constraint and everybody's got their own projects going already and you know, >> but it just seemed like the price went from 15 to 47,500 and it or it's not going to happen. It just seemed like it jumped far, you know. 183 00:50:48.800 --> 00:51:13.720 >> Yeah, >> I did hear that number, but I really didn't know where it came from, so I don't know. All right. Well, we know what's unfair future and we can deal with it then. >> Good food for thought. 184 00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:30.559 >> Agreed. >> All right. Do we have any um public comments? No public left. um from commissioners. I actually would like to thank Scott Dah for standing in for me for many meetings 185 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:46.640 uh over the last couple of months for me. Um >> uh no problem. >> Greatly appreciate it, sir. >> Yeah, it's it's fine. Andrew gives me plenty of notice, so we're we're always well prepared. >> Very good. [laughter] 186 00:51:46.640 --> 00:52:01.920 >> Well, whenever you uh want to take over, you let me know. No, I'm good. [laughter] >> Um, all right. So, the upcoming uh scheduled commission activities start August 11th. Um, 187 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:18.240 yeah, that'll be at 6 PM regular hybrid meeting at the um DPW followed by August 25th being a 6 p.m. Zoom meeting. September 8th will be a 6:00 p.m. regular hybrid meeting as 188 00:52:18.240 --> 00:52:35.920 well. And then the September 22nd will be a Zoom meeting at 6 PM. And at this time, if I could get a a motion to close the meeting, that would be great. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Sorry, 189 00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:51.359 >> that's okay. I'll second that. >> All right. It's been motion has been made. It's been seconded. We'll start with Arthur. >> Hi. >> Chip. >> Hi. >> And Dan Proctor. Hi. >> And Scott D. 190 00:52:51.359 --> 00:53:04.720 >> Hi. >> And I for myself. Thank you, Lunberg. I appreciate your time. May you have a nice evening. >> Thanks, guys. >> Good night. >> See you guys.