Good evening, Lunberg. My name is Brett Ramston. I'm the chairman of the Lunberg Sewer Commission and we're going to start our meeting as we always do with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
stand under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you everyone. In accordance with the requirements of open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting of the sewer commission is being recorded and will be able to be found on the Lunberg
Access YouTube channel after the meeting. The following information is also provided for members of the public that would like to participate in the meeting remotely. To participate remotely from a computer, please use the link to join the public meeting webinar
found on the posted agenda or from a telephone. Dial toll-free number 8884754499 and enter the webinar ID number 831 87249940. If you have not registered with Zoom,
you will be asked for your name and email address. Note, no participant ID is needed. Just press pound when uh I will do a roll call vote to confirm all members. Um
staff and commission are present and we're going to start with Scott D >> here and Dan Bctor. >> Yep. Arthur Cats here and I am also here uh with the staff. Um Bel Vernick I'm
here and Andrew Bellier here and Jane Ranley >> here. >> She thank you Jane. >> Um and then the uh let's see sorry about that. anticipated
speakers on the agenda. Uh, please respond in the affirmative when I call your name with Dillis and Roy. Ryan Proctor >> here >> and with Haley Wood. Uh, Daniel Sheen. >> Dan had a conflict. So, I'm Steve
Ballard from Haley Wood. I'm filling in for >> Oh, okay. Well, welcome. Glad to have you. Thank you. >> Um, thank you for the correction. So is there any uh public comment from
the public? >> Is no public comment? >> No public. Is there any public comment from present? >> Not um or from um commission members or staff.
>> Okay. Thank you all very much. Um so um we're back to because of the um because of our hearing here. Um I need to read ground rules again and they are
um we are now turning to the first item on the agenda. Before we do so, permit me to cover some ground rules for the effect effective and clear conduct of our business and to ensure accurate meeting
minutes. Um, I the chair will introduce each item to the agenda and we'll go down the line of members inviting each of by name to provide any comment, questions or motions. Now, please hold your comments until your name is called.
Um, please remember to mute your phone or computer when you are not speaking. Please remember to speak clearly and in a way that helps generate accurate minutes. Uh, for any response, please wait until the chair yields the floor to you and state your name before speaking.
If members wish to engage in conservate conversation uh with other members, please do do so through the chair taking care to identify yourself. So public hearing um
and are we on time for to start the first public hearing? >> Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. Okay. Um, what time do we have at the moment? >> Uh, it is 6:13. I believe >> 6:13.
>> Okay, it is now 6:13. We're going to open our public hearing um and introduce uh our speaker from Haley Ward regarding 763 Massab a waiver dis
uh request discussion of progress uh project and um we'll take it from there. >> Good evening. My name is Steve Ballard. with Kay Ward Dan at complic 763 Massav the old funeral home similar
to 792 Massav that Dan had been before you previously we have three lots and we're proposing to connect the sewer rather than three separate connections put them all into one manhole and go one
connection into the sewer in Massav um regarding your use conditions as far as the three conditions to be met. Similar to Mass App to 792,
there's not as much of an emergency as being proactive to prevent something from happening with the fatimity of the intersection with Cheson Street and this fairly good on Massav and the traffic that goes through Massav. Trying
to make sure that the safety is of the Outlook's concerned and that we don't have to shut down the street too many times. one time versus three times. Um, as far as alternatives, if you could speak up just a hair more as far as
alternatives, if we go with the three connections, one of the things we have to do to get to the sewer main is to cross under the existing water man. So, I'm not sure of the age of that line, but
we're we believe that it'd be easier and less disruptive if we only crossed under that once versus three times. Um, and given the soil maps that are in the area, there's a good likelihood there could be ledge there. So, that's going
to also complicate things and make more of an issue. >> Can you point out on the plan exactly where the waiver request is? where the waivers where the sewer request for waiver is actually cutting
through. So the easement >> another property >> the easement will come from lot one >> which is here cross actually that's lot three lot one here cross into lot one through lot one right to the taking a
mass app >> just quickly looking at it >> can you define the the lots because I'm looking at the what seems to be the the the plot lines and it seems like the one in the back top corner there Mhm. >> Is that going to have two different
accesses to messav? >> So this this lot this lot here >> comes from here >> down angles and down. >> Yep. I can you can see that one. >> This lot it's >> 50 ft of front here. >> Okay.
>> Comes up. Now to get area for lot two it came around the the existing bureau home. are the but where is >> the driveway access will be up on the >> driveway access will be chestnut street >> okay I was just trying to figure out why
you know drive >> oh they'll have chestnut street addresses >> yeah no no no I'm sorry I meant the >> I just curious >> the way the plot is that comes down to you know on that one >> but if their driveways are on Chestnut Street they chestnut streets
>> right and going by if we had to keep our main in this lot we needed the 50 ft on Mass and we need it so we're not crossing. >> Okay. I mean, I'm assuming what the the only way with that other strip that's going down the side was to get you the
proper square footage for the lot. >> Okay. Because I know how that house is laid out. So, >> yeah, I I know there's Yeah, we're get the area for that. >> Okay. So who's
>> So technically it's that lot that's going to have at least part of the easement on. >> Correct. Cross this lot. >> Yeah. >> And this lot >> because the house with the barn attached is also going to cross that short piece
property owned by the upper right. Is that what you're getting at? >> Well, no, no, no. I was just questioning the plot lines. I wanted to make sure I was looking at it right. Now I understand why. But my other qu I'm just going to ask and I'm assuming it is what it is. The existing structure, the one
you're you're tying into the existing structure sewer line. >> Uh well the existing >> what they're doing they're going to modify this building. >> They're going to take part of it out and create a duplex. >> Okay. >> Yeah. There's a big barn on the on the
end, >> right? So they have to abandon the existing system and then they'll run the new line. They'll put a man in old. >> Okay. Well, that that's interesting because I assumed that you were just tying in the two new
units into the existing old work um and going to Massav. Wouldn't it be a shorter run for you to run it to? Is the other street on sore? Um, if I understand correctly, we need to go into a larger pipe now because there's going to be three of them coming into one. Is
that correct? >> Right. >> But that's only on if we grant the easement that three are going into one. >> If there were three separate runs, >> right? Well, that's the >> I I I know what we're saying, but we're
also saying, hey, we're not doing these other runs to mass ad because we don't want to disrupt traffic three times. But >> Mr. Chair, Mr. Speaker, is the existing house on septic now or on sewer? It's on
septic system. >> Okay. >> So, these are all new signs, >> right? >> Okay. Because when I read it, it was saying that the existing >> word. Mr. Director, um Arthur, do you have any questions? >> Um I just want to be able to picture
what's going on here real quick. Um the they're going to put a new manhole, they said, and they're going to need a new manhole. Where's that manhole going? >> So there's going to be a manhole >> on the existing line. Yeah. >> From coming out of this building. >> Manhole that will connect two. There'll
be an angle. Two man holes. >> Okay, that's what you said. And then the third manhole where these two lines, this manhole will connect lot two and three and then it'll go on to lot one. Three new man holes. >> Yes.
>> So I guess >> the verbage I think about the paper >> the verbiage was for one new manhole. I didn't know. I'm just saying. I don't know if they marry up. Yeah, but the man holds on private property. >> I'm just saying.
>> So, I'm just >> All right. Now that I know that there's not even old work and we're talking, you know, that we're saying that the the reason for tying the three in is to only shut down Mass App once. Why are we even
running the mass app when it seems like the shorter runs are going to be to, you know, if we if in the end we got to figure out what's the best interest for the town, how about not shutting down Massav at all and running it the other way on the shorter runs. >> So, Mr. Chad stuck. >> Yeah. Mr.
>> There's no sewer on Chestnut Street. The only sewer available is on >> just water. >> And is Okay. So, is Chestnut Street one of those in our master map? That's supposed to come online to
>> that bus, right? >> It is in the sewer zone. Correct. >> That That's what I'm saying. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The green, right? >> Let me uh >> future. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The existing property is all on the sewer.
>> But all right. So, what I'm getting at, >> it's on private right now. >> It's on private, >> right? But it's it's on the sewer. Um it's in the sewer. Let's say in the district. Thank you. >> Yeah, it's in the sewer district. But how many properties are on the street?
Like if we're going to omit three properties right now and there's only 10 properties on the street, are we really going to run just for seven properties in the future? Or is this the point when we run new work on
Chestnut Street? Yeah. >> I mean that >> if we're hoping to get sewer down Chestnut Street at some time, this could be the opportunity. >> 10 properties. >> Well,
asking how many how many properties are on Chestnut? >> Okay. >> I I know it's not that long a street. >> Drive by there all the time. >> What is your main concern about that? Well, what I'm saying is if it's in our
master plan that this is in as Dan was saying that it's in >> our district, right? Should we be entertaining running new work on Chestnut Street in its entirety and putting it
>> Chestnut Street itself is not in the district >> and all the other properties down Chestnut Street are not in the district. >> Okay. Well, that's what I'm what I'm asking. I >> So that would mean redistricting to be able to run it down there >> um in this particular area. >> All right. Well, that's what All right.
I mean, where do I find out where it's cut? I thought we just said it was in the district of the plan. Okay. So, what are we looking at? >> The property we're talking about. >> Yes. Yeah. >> See that? >> So, when your suggestion is running an
extension up Chestnut Street >> or do we bring these two in >> or do we plan out? >> Right. But is the light green in the sewer district? >> That's the sewer sewer service area, >> right? So there's no sewer line there, but it can be without meeting or
anything crazy. All right, that's that's what >> and the whole street. So what I'm saying is are we how how many properties are on and I know there's going to be another one across the street coming on, but the how many properties are on Chestnut Street are we looking at? I can see
three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. is that if they run the entire >> you make them run an extension, they're only ought to go to here. So, you got to grab free baby. >> Um, well, I mean, I guess I'm still not privy to how it works on the sewer
commission of adding a line within our already approved district. We would only spur out. We wouldn't run the whole street. >> No. So the bylaw states that he has to go halfway up this lot right here. So
with their stuff. So they'd have to go halfway through whatever number that is. I apologize. I can't see it right there. >> Correct. >> Right. So they they would run the sewer up to here. >> So you have to go halfway through that lot. So that's where he would be
obligated to stop and then if someone else wants to take it from there, that's their prerogative. But ultimately that's how our bylaw >> is written. >> Okay. So, >> so it would serve as like like >> devil's advocate 42 wants to come off their septic and wants to go.
>> Mhm. >> But they're going to be responsible for running all the way up to 42. >> Yeah. >> If if if this gentleman doesn't run it up, then yeah, they would have to go all the way. And that's why it doesn't happen. >> Yeah. Right. That's why those people still battle and put in septic systems
because they're not going one house isn't going to pay for all that. >> Right. So this guy might petition all his neighbors and say, "Yeah, I want to join in with >> and that's where I'm going. Are we supposed to be petitioning everyone with that could potentially benefit from this?"
>> As a public interest, >> can I just ask a couple of questions? >> Where is the sewer st for the funeral home at this point? Do we know? >> It doesn't show it on the plan. >> No, you you can pull that up, Andrew, right?
I mean, I'm just curious, but the bottom line is a sewer stub was left for the funeral home. >> Okay. >> It had to been, right? They were. >> So, >> okay. So, the bottom line is your plan doesn't show that there's an existing sewer stub there already. >> No, there is.
>> They have to be, >> right? >> Because when they ran the sewer up, they they went by that and they beded the funeral home. So, there must be a stub someplace to >> Yeah, but they could have. So the the way the funeral home's laid out now, you you know by driving by it. I mean the house is here. >> I mean there's a good chance it's down
here. >> No, it's not. >> Their septic system is right here. >> Okay. >> Okay. But whenever they put two stubs in, >> they find out where the septic system is and they find the logical spot which is downhill. So I guarantee that stub is probably some place right here.
>> So they might not even see here it is right here. >> Where is it? >> Oops. Chinese. What's the property across from there? >> Now, what's interesting is your downhill on this is here. >> So, that's you're showing that right there. >> Downhill from here is down here.
>> No, I understand that. >> If you're talking right there, right? >> That's it. >> That's that's showing where that stuff is. >> I'm pretty sure Mike Masherelli had contacted me at one time. It's right at the entrance way by the stone wall. >> So, it's like right here. >> They wouldn't know down here because this land
>> It's right at the entrance way by the stone wall. >> Yeah. is somewhere in that area, >> which is >> the entrance way is down here. >> No, I realize that, but that's not what that's shown there. >> All right. Well, >> so regardless, what the point I'm making is there is a sewer stop here.
>> Okay. >> So, we don't even know if we'd have to dig into the road based on this planet. I guess my second question is when we talked about across the street >> originally Dan presented it that we were going to tie into the existing stuff
>> y >> and then at the end of the meeting he said no we'll have to dig into the road and upgrade it to an 8 in one >> because there were three >> right so first he told us it was going to be six and then at the end he said do we have to dig into the street and make it eight
>> so can you tell can I just ask a question >> sure >> can you tell How many do these three here? Is 6 in going to be enough or are they going to need eight? I really want that information before we're going to decide whether they're going to accept this. >> Okay. >> I want to know where the stub is and I
want to know what size it's going to be if we have to dig into the road or is that 6in stub going to be big enough? >> I mean, I just don't think we're really getting all the information. I would understand. >> Okay. >> My gut feeling is kind of what Scott's saying. If there's addresses on Chestnut
Street, I do not want to have pipes going all the way through this other property. >> To me, it's I mean, all right, it's easily avoidable from our point of view. That's all I'm saying. I thought if if this was
existing work already coming down and we were just tying in here, I could see why it would be cost effective and whatever. we're causing a a couple burdens when it almost seems like, you know, for
x number of dollars, you know, we run the sub up. But like I said, I don't even know what if if it does if you're going to run a spur, whatever. right now. Do you have to open that up to the
town of the people on the street to say, "Hey, this is going to h this is possibly going to happen. Do you want to be on the sewer line?" >> All right. Um the Mr. director, if I understand or recall
correctly, uh, one of the reasons why they needed to go to an 8 in stub on the stone farm was it's actually three duplexes. Right. So, it's not three units, it's three, it's six units, >> right?
>> Right. So, this being three units. >> No, this is going to be six. >> I'm sorry. Six as well. Yeah, >> this is six. This even when this is split, these are still big prop. This will still I don't know how many. I couldn't tell you how many bedrooms, but I know it's a big
footprint, you know. But there's going to be more bedrooms in that than probably in the town homes. Am I correct? Or >> I don't know what plan is for that, honestly. I just know that they're going to be converting it to a two family. I don't know what how many bedroom.
>> All right. Um, so we don't know. >> Well, that's interesting, too. >> Final answer. >> So, we can go from >> I don't know. I can't >> How do we grant How do we grant this if we don't We don't even know how many bedrooms are going in.
>> So, volume. >> Well, I mean, it's number >> Well, I'm thinking it's safe to assume >> Well, it's permitting, right? Safe to assume there's three bedrooms in each unit. >> I'm talking about in the existing house. It's a huge house. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And
so >> it's looking like a Zillow. >> No, no, no. But they're going to split it in two. So there's going to be redesign. >> That would be in your data. Just >> It would be I would just I would have to know too to >> Well, well, that's what I'm saying for the permanent. Yeah. >> Yeah.
When you give me a minute. >> Is it happening? Is there a split happening either way they go? >> Is that pro is that home being split no matter which? >> That's what they're saying. Yeah. Right. >> So either way, >> so doesn't matter to do the So the split
has nothing to do with the sewer then >> the split to do with aesthetics and and usage than it does with sewer connection. Okay, >> that's correct. Yeah. >> So um this tub is chances are it would be six. So we're probably digging into
the street either way for to upgrade to eight. But we already assumed we were digging into the street for this, were we not? I >> we didn't go into this. I'm >> I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I just like to see something on a plan that shows what we're going to do. In
other words, if we're digging in the street and we're putting an 8 in I wanted called out new 8 in line going into the street. I mean, that's what this is all about. That's all we should see on a plan. >> Well, it's showing where the >> it's supposed to be where they're going to tie in, but the tie in isn't
>> even marked. >> I mean, it's just showing a proposed 6inch line all the way down to here. So I just at some point >> propose six inch. So at some point if this is going to be eight that's fine but I just >> think we should know that.
>> Yeah but you know if it's showing six up here it makes no sense to go to eight. I mean it's >> but that's exactly what we voted on last week across the street. Right. >> We talked about 6 in and then then then after he said he was going to have to go to eight because of the volume size but
the plan did not show that. It showed a six inch. I just feel like we're getting that >> not before the hole. >> I just don't understand the concept. I must have missed that. >> I apologize. Last week with my hearing I miss a lot, but just for the record.
>> Um, so you're saying that what we approved last week was a continuous 6 in line and at some point it just jumped to eight, >> I believe. So at the last manhole it switches over to the manhole is fairly close to the road. Oh, he >> it's different than this configuration,
which is is it's not really a big deal. It just comes down to that should have been known right off that we're going to go. >> He was just saying that he was running sixes on the other one, but the it would be one tie in to the road that was and that was the only time they had to
disrupt the road. So, he it was in last minute, but like you said, it wasn't really on the plan. And now this one's even a little more vague, >> right? But if we have to go into the street for an 8 inch, I understand that. I just want to see that. And then is
there going to be a manhole right here or is this going to just have an 8 by6 down here? >> Yeah. Doesn't say anything about 8 in. >> Use a union just >> Yeah. You just, you know, 8x6 front type
of thing. So yeah, >> I'm just, you know, me just playing devil's advocate for the residents on Chestnut Street. Is this their opportunity to tie in? And how does something like this presented to
um the town to the residents? So if if if this if you don't want this to happen, the lots are set up that they could go with separate three separate connections to Mass A.
>> But but I'm saying still going to say why would I want three connections to Mass A when probably at that point it's going to be cheaper to put the spur in and run it to Chestnut Street. If we're talking three connections in the mass, then I'm going to be insisting
on the scarf. If you want to go, >> but that's what I'm saying. Like, it's not just them. You You have to, you know, I'm assuming there's some public notice you have to make or, you know, make them aware that there's this
possibility for >> um director. >> Yes, sir. Um, if we were if if they were to put a spur of chestnut, what kind of intrusion into Massav and Chestnut?
I assume we'd have to expect to be pretty big instruction. >> I kind of got it up here on the screen. I would assume tight as manual. So, they have to come across, >> right? Both lanes and then up chest.
probably put a van over there. >> Something like that. >> You go right. >> No, I mean, look, I'm not trying to derail anything. All I'm saying is, okay, well, is it better? Is it better for the town and the residents of
Chestnut Street, they've we've run up there. Yes, it's a little bit of a disruption on Massav. the hell I live on Massav, but in the end does the result a lot better for the town of the little inconvenience of Massab being
closed. Is it better off bringing this Chestnut Street online? >> So I can tell you the four houses on the left side of Chestnut Street right there, the northerly side, >> they would be ecstatic because the soil conditions there are terrible. So when
their septics are bailed if there's storage in front of their house >> and I know this is jumping projects but don't we have a this coming up all being sold and subdivided and >> that's already been done over there but there's another one over here. Could you bring
>> No, no, no, no, no. There's they where the lumber company is is being was just sold, right? >> And what was it? Five different lots at least and then the houses that are going to be behind them. Yeah, there we go. So, yep. So,
>> so what are they doing for septic on that lot? Do we know? >> No, because they haven't even >> And that's not in the sewer service area, >> right? >> Oh, >> well, no. So, this is where we come into that other problem we have right down next to 30. It's 32, but the the edge of
the property is on that street. That's that thing we had qu questioned a little while ago might have even right before Dan came on was that what do we do if there's part of a property that falls into the sewer expansion
you know land with the rest of the land? Do you only let them build out there or do we have to build one spur all the way >> in to service the property? >> So if they want to put houses here and connect them to sewer >> they have to go to town meeting to get this put into the sewer service area. Right.
>> Yep. >> Right. They could put a house right in here, the green area. >> Y, >> but they can't >> tie it up. >> And I know, like I said, I'm just putting all the >> possibilities out there of Okay. Well, now
>> I don't know. I mean, look, if I'm overstepping, let me know. Like I said, I'm not trying to derail. I'm just trying to You got one 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 whatever. Two. If you go all the way down, you got about 16 houses. Right. >> Right. I know a resident up here already
expressed interest and can I >> And now here's a chance for this residents to have something maybe a little more cost conducive for them to bring it in. And especially if they all, >> you know, they start talking to the neighbor say, "Oh yeah, hey, you know, I'm sick of my title title n
>> title five." >> Title five. >> N girlsity is different. The gravity feed is different when you get to a certain apex >> on the road. Is it go one way and one this way gravity? >> So you'd have to have something
>> right there splitting ways to do it. >> Yeah, they they can they can pump. >> They can grade or pump. >> Yeah. So >> and that basically runs downhill but like I'm just trying to not >> Yeah, they're going to need grade. >> Yeah. >> Despite the face I understand. And then
even All right. Now even coming back the one thing that maybe helps you at Haley Ward is if you did run into Ledge because right now you don't know and now if it's the tie-ins down here
say you know you don't know is it was it playing this way because of soil samples or we were running down here and we hit ledge you know so I guess there's still a lot of questions >> well this is all downgradient So, I mean, this would be an easy install as
far as this is all probably above grade anyhow. But regardless, you know, whether there's ledge there or not, >> well, for this property, it would certainly by far be the most affordable way with the less intrusion, least
intrusion into the public's domain. Um, it would be certainly quicker and far more affordable. And then the offset would be um putting a whole line down the Chestnut Street far enough to reach this
building, this new structure here, which is sort of a whole different ball of wax from what they're asking, of course. Um so we have to discuss and we've been discussing the pros and cons. Um,
we also need to I'd like to go around the room real quick and um ask if we you know what our thoughts are. Would do we want to
bring this further to the next meeting? um finding out if we can find out where the stub actually is and what the size pipe needs to be um andor if there's anything we need to
learn further to discuss bringing >> down chestnut and >> and then review this again >> well the number of bedrooms >> is the number of bedrooms going I don't know what at what point you know I'll ask Dan or anybody knows the would you
have to go to a even a bigger tie-in than 8 in edge at what point like are they close to that threshold even if >> well I thought we did our last week because last week we're talking six units and we went to eight 8 in pipe so I I just but I don't believe that whole
system was 8 in I think it was six all the way down to the street and and then that last manhole opened it up to 8 in I believe that's what it was in front of me but Um, I mean, I think you're right about going around the room. My personal opinion,
and this is just me. >> Yes. >> I don't love easements through multiple properties to service two houses that have addresses on Chestnut Street. That's just my gut feeling across the board. for every easement that we're going to
keep talking about in the future because these are all going to come in front of us constantly when we have addresses on other streets. I don't feel this is the best option for easements. Like I understand it this is by far the most economical way for any developer to go
as compared to running it up the street. I was going to say because >> I have a lot what Scott's saying that I just feel like there are people on Chestnut Street that would love sewer and if this is an opportunity for them to get it at least to that point, that's
how I would vote. That's that's just me. Scott, >> um I mean I agree with with Dan. I mean, we I think we need to have the exact placement on these on this plot of where
the tie-in is on Massav because then even if say it's 20 ft up here, whatever, 50 ft. This is 50 ft, right? So, it it could change even the amount of easement because now it could probably run all the way down here and
now there's no easement on this lot. Do you know what I'm saying? So we you can't vote on an easement, but I mean when you look at this here here's the thrill three dwellings, right? >> Right. you know, the shortest run, even if you're going to run it into one
tiein, is, you know, here to here. >> Uh, >> and and but then that, you know, it comes up there. But that's what I'm saying like when when we're trying to satisfy conditions, >> are we better serving the town of
bringing Chestnut Street online? >> Right. I would also >> if we did in chestnut because there is no lot three doesn't have any frontage John chestnut so you would need an ement
>> but get from the existing building there or to any line whatever line you're >> okay >> because the exist the existing house would tie into the stuff that's there >> I was going to say so it wouldn't be any easier >> that's one thing I wanted to say >> to bring up right now >> I'm just saying gentlemen >> if he was when he was saying
everything's going to go Yeah, this one wouldn't have to. This one would still come down to whatever stub is that's left in. >> Oh, this they'll need these. These two would be >> Yeah. >> So, that's what I wanted to ask. I director here real quick. Obviously, if
we run if we u decide they need to run up Chestnut, they're going to have to be putting in stubs for every house they pass. >> Correct. >> Um every property they pass. That's what we've >> we should >> Mhm.
>> Isn't that what we've done before? >> Mhm. >> Um that if you're passing other properties, you have to make it so they can Does a stub have to be there for that to happen or can they put stubs in later? >> They take it up the road. They put the studs. >> We did it on
>> It's four lots include not including >> So if you do that, do do you then charge that person a betterment >> only when they tie in? Would then they be obligated to pay some of that install cost for whoever does it? I guess I I
didn't realize that, but >> that's a good question. I don't tie in for 10 years. >> Yeah. Yeah, they're not obligated to me. >> Then um >> since we're talking about, you know, the best interest of the people, not like you said, why don't we have them communicate to us and see what the
consensus is in that street of who would be interested in this, but present it to them with all the possibilities of what the expenses might be incurred from them, too. So they can make an educated decision and give us backing towards what we >> Well, if we're looking out for the best interest, they have to be interested
>> in the best interest. I'm saying, >> so if they're looking if we're looking out for the best interest of the town, the town people that we're looking to give the interest to have to speak up. >> That's what I'm saying is how do you petition? >> That's what I'm saying. Like that that would be the I think the the push to >> even usually what happens when you do
that just my own experience. >> We did it on what he's talking about the pressure one on Highland Street. >> We talked to everybody on the street that we're going to go buy the house. You want to help pay for this? >> Nobody wants to pay. As soon as it went by and it got signed off, then they all
tied in. Okay, human nature, right? Because they say this guy has bigger pockets than anybody. He's going to pay for all. We're going to we're happy to have it, but we're not going to pay anything. >> So, in a way, we should So, in a way, is that >> I mean, I understand, you know, and we could have conversations, but I've never
seen a person say, "Oh, yeah, I'll give you 20 grand." You know, just >> that's part for the course in this situation typically. >> So, that's part of the formula then, right? Yeah. And so I just wanted to find out if technically they they would have to add stubs or would they
>> Okay. And then would they have to put separate stubs for these two houses because they're >> Yeah, we wouldn't be granting an ement if we >> And then this would tie >> if it's new work. You're just going to >> So, you'd have two two intrusions in in
the mass and then >> um you bring this down uh past four other properties across the street with six stubs and then >> Mhm. >> going to Yeah.
Um, so in the interest of the town and with the um, let me ask you this, Mr. Director. If we were if someone were to bring it
down the end of Chestnut, um, what is that street that it hits over there? >> Iowa. >> Okay. Um, Highland, would that be able to take that stub up there or would Highland have to go another direction if
somebody down the road on Highland wanted it? >> So, Highland Street has to be pumped because when it drops by Marsha Pond, >> right, >> it it runs out of grade. So, we hooked up the house on the westerly side of
Highland Street with a pump line. It pumps all the way down up to OKAB to the manhole. So most of Chestnut Street, if they're going to tie in, they're going to also pump. They have to. >> They can't grab it yet. >> Oh, did they tie in to Maine
>> from Ches Street? You said >> Yeah. >> I mean from Highland. Sorry. >> Yeah. Which one? >> Yeah. Let's go down go that way a little bit. So here's Old Gav right here, >> right? So, we tied this house right here in the sewer
>> and we put an injector pump from there all the way down and it ties into the manhole right there because the road dips down there. >> So, that that's all E1 >> pressure line. So, this whole section of Chestnut, they would have to do the same thing. They would have to tie into that
and we left a stub there for them. So, they can tie into it being a stub in the street. So, they just connect and then they just keep running and running. But, this would all be pressure this whole section. somewhere there's going to be the high point here probably just before the ball field that then would go that
way gravity. I'm >> sure if you had that many houses would it need a pump station? >> Well, that's what I don't know. I'm not sure of the grading here, but this grade keeps coming up. So, those would all probably just be gravity. >> Yeah, gravity, >> right?
>> So, can we go back to where he just pointed? It doesn't show that being brown for some reason. Shouldn't that house tied in now be brown? >> If that's tied in, it should be part of it.
>> This our mapping system hasn't gotten caught up. >> The map hasn't got caught up. >> I see. Okay. >> So, is there a line down the street passing the other properties across from it? >> Just the ones that go to Oakav. >> So, this that's what I was
>> number 26 is not. >> So, this is what I was explaining. This is what I was explaining earlier. So when we ran that pump line to Oakav, we talked to that house and that house and nobody wanted to incur any of the cost. >> Then after this house number 12 sold and
then they did tie into it. >> Yep. They tied in. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> But was there a stub there? >> It's not showing. >> There was not a stub there. They went across the street and they tied in. >> I'm sorry. >> You you tie in. It's a T stub for the two. >> Andrew, make a note of that. Right. that
it's not showing whatever sewer is up here now. So we give that the right pair. >> Yeah. What's that? 7-Eleven >> Highland from Oak >> Island Oak >> towards Chas. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So the now existing conditions there
when what year was that? That was a while. 10 years ago probably. Yeah. Yeah. At least none of us were involved then. Um, so they back then they voted to let that
run up the street with a single line and no tie-ins, no uh stubs, and it wasn't like a street line. It was more of a house line going. >> So, it's a 2-in pressure line, which is enough line to handle all of Highland
Street and Chestnut Street. >> Oh, so it's pressure, >> but it just wasn't any stubs. That's correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'm just trying to wreck my memory. I believe did we ever
was there a change that we require stubs going in when we're passing out of the home sound? Because I thought we did. >> I don't know if it's written somewhere, but it's common sense to me, right? >> Um, what would we have to do to find that out? Look at our
>> Yeah. Go through all our rigs. Yeah. >> Well, let's get back to going around the room, right? What I think I agree with Dan's, you know, ask uh
did you have any concerns with before we move forward with, you know, >> ask on the plans? >> It's a pretty crazy configuration. Um, I don't see a big problem in the future with that functioning in any way. Um,
it would be the pros in my point of view is there'd be less intrusion on roads. Um, Chestnut Street's in pretty good shape, isn't it? >> It is, man. >> Um, you know, we're tearing up a lot of street which will be paved where the
excavation is. Um however at the same time if we do this configuration we're not bringing the sewer down chestnut for other people at the same time. Um we also know that
very good chance that none of the other properties are going to contribute likely would connect. Um, so I'm kind of right now I I I don't have a final decision in my own head of which way
would be best. Um, so let's start with Arthur this time. We'll go this way. What are your thoughts on this? >> Um, I'm with Dan Scott. Let's just see the plans they come up with to include >> the 8 in the >> Oh, 8 in. you know, the discharge, the
what are they, you know, um, >> basically everything that we talked about for them to show us so we have a clearer picture of, you know, but I do believe that we should look out for the people of that street, Chestnut Street, and see if this is going to benefit
them. If we're going to be there anyways and there's going to be future development, is it smart now to engage Chestnut Street, get it over with, >> right? because we're looking at continual development and this might set a precedence and then we are out of control.
So this is going to set the precedence. >> It it would it give those people access. you give those people access and we were also Dan had mentioned it and you kind of mentioned I mean we could be talking how could we even grant an easement
access tonight when we're not even sure if these plan drawings are going to change because the tiein might not be in the appropriate spot. this is the potential of but if we approve this as a you know an easement into this other lot
and then the tie-ins you know back this way you know then now we're granting an easement for no reason you know what I mean or for for an additional lot for no reason >> does it unusual circumstances >> if we have options those are unusual circumstances
>> is the extenduating circumstances and like you said the only going you We we're still looking at three points of granting these, right? And to me, it's hard to vote on something that's inconclusive right in front of us
without saying h, you know, well, maybe we're going to an 8 in and it's in this general vicinity, you know, when and even to Dan's point, two of the residences are on a whole another street that's within our buildable
>> sewer system that, as we determined a while ago, is well capable of taking on more tie-ins. >> Oh, it certainly is. And and it >> we it was overengineered and overbuilt 20 years ago to handle just what we're
getting to this. And as Dan said, you know, we don't want to the a lot of these are going to come before us now. everyone's building, you know, subdividing, selling, subdividing, and it's just going to be more more and more tie-ins and >> also some of those units installed in
the future that we >> Yeah. And I'm sure that's, you know, um, you know, another thing. So, we knew that the easement thing was going to be >> adus could be added later. >> It was going to be an issue. And so, not
that this is, you know, really that issue, but it does fall into easements on other people's property at this point, you know, and the whole emergency access thing and, you know, >> Okay. And Dan, your thoughts?
>> Well, like I said before, I'm just not in favor of addresses on Chestnut Street. I guess my only question I'd have for Steve is, you know, like, do you think your client want wants a more definitive answer tonight? In other words, if he comes back with another plan that says we need to run an 8 in stub here,
>> is that really going to change our opinion on this whole thing? >> Because I'm sure his client is going to be looking for answers on whether this is even going to be feasible and and spending more money just showing us an 8 in stub here as compared to 6 in. So, I
mean, it's >> right. I It's exactly what you just said was what I was going to say. If we do find out the location of the stub, modify the design to go into that same stub and determine whether that stuff and if it can handle that stuff. Is this
an option that you're >> right? And like you said, without even the location, you know, of where exactly it's going to run, you know, that's all right. I at least have to wait for that. But >> no, I understand that.
>> Yeah. I mean, realistically for me, >> I'm just really concerned with the president and how our map is laid out and what liberties are few. If we say okay to
this and run three down to Massav just because it was easier uh than you know running a lineup, we're missing the opportunity. What opportunity do we ever have to run this up when we actually have new properties at the beginning of
the run of where we would put a spur to service other people in the area? >> I also suspect but the only undeveloped right now is right at the beginning, >> right? >> Everything else that's pretty well maxed out. >> I'm saying that this is undeveloped.
You know what I'm saying? So, at what point would we be is in our best interest to be like, well, no, we need to have we said it because the next person that comes up, they want to tie in. Now, >> you're asking them to run all the way
down the street. >> Um, yeah. >> And then you have which obviously in the future it's probably going to happen. This street will come online. I'd be missing the opportunity to bring this street online. >> Okay. Um but right now get back on right to here.
>> I know I understand. >> Right. So um and we can get back we can talk come back to you again. Um, one of the things I was thinking that just popped in my head is that used to
be we used to be that um, you know that we weren't even able to um, request w or let waiverss be requested for this. I think this is a situation
where the original people who were running the commission, whoever came up with the original rules and bylaws, uh, that were approved by the town was probably to prevent this kind of situation from happening and make it so that the other accessible
people do have access in the future. if there's the possibility of um sewer running down a street in front of those units >> that it makes no sense not to have them
do that. I mean, and that's and that's why there are the stringent conditions and Dan can say that verbatim, I'm sure, of what the town, you know, >> uh, uh, the permitting process, you know, has to meet these three uh,
stringent conditions. And, you know, and like I said, I'm still stuck on the last one of the the the the best interest of the the the town and just because I mean, look, I I don't know the builders. I don't know, you know, but I understand
it's going to be, you know, more of a cost to run it, but do I believe it's cost prohibited that stops this project? No. Right. And I've actually been doing a lot of thinking myself during the this meeting
and thinking back and thinking through that, you know, the sewer system is number one. um and how best to um support and um
maintain the system and help our existing clients as well and possible future clients. And the more I think about it, the more um I'm leaning towards not approving this. And um
letting them making a decision that they need to run up Chestnut and make the sewer available for other people as well as >> well it's interesting what D you know even what Dan was saying even if they came back with the plan for the 8 in are we really still even going to approve
it? We just spinning our wheels right now and then we >> as well trying to have respect for Steve. >> Yeah. His time instead of >> redesigning a plan and showing an 8 in and then we're going to shoot it down. And that's just my opinion. That's all. >> So in the same realm,
you wouldn't let them put three separate into mass this line that's in mass app through their own lots. You're going to want them to go Chestnut Street regardless. So right now it's cap they have the cap
capability of accessing following the the um town rules and accessing this line through their own land. So if we if you're not comfortable with this, you're saying you're also not comfortable letting them try to run
three separate lines up. Hey, the I mean the way it was brought up to us was from what I understand the reason why you wanted to do the easement was because you didn't want to do that. >> Why was the easement? >> Right. The easement was because you didn't want to do the three tieins. >> If the choice is running three separate
lines to mass appe my my client probably, >> right, that doesn't they're not uh relying on unusual circumstances at that point. They're just doing individual tieins, right? So they're not leaning on usual circumstances. >> So no wave necessary. >> So no waiver necessary. So that's the
one route I believe they could take. >> But any other route the benefit will be >> actually still don't we still have to vote in any tie-ins? >> No. >> No. Okay. >> I guess >> sorry. Go ahead. Does it say anywhere in
our bylaw? I'm not aware of it, but does it say anywhere in our bylaws that if you have an address on another street, you can tie in the street behind you? I I I'm just curious. >> See, there that was my guess on that. >> Yeah, they there's an address on Chestnut Street and then because like I
understand this, you know, I get it. That's still in my mind is like spaghetti bowl type >> Yeah. >> stuff. You're going to have lines all over the place. be a band. It won't be a future. >> But these lines are going to be the homeowner's responsibility, you know,
you know, and I understand that, but that's still is kind of >> But in these situations, if we're going to if we're going to give a waiver, >> that situation should be more directed towards a situation where sewer cannot go up
>> the street and sewer can. It's >> let me just go back to we wouldn't have approvals. >> It's new tie-ins. It's new work. >> We would have approval >> and our best interest is not to dig up and disrupt Mass AB to the town. It's
still to service and tie into the street. You can't tell me it's cost conducive when you're going to run three, you know, 500 foot lines as opposed to, you know, three 200 foot whatever the 350 foot lines and 100
chestnut to chestnut. So, I mean, yes, I I know it's much more construction on Chestnut, but like I said, you're still I'm still stuck on Mass A disruption and missing an opportunity to service
Chestnut Street in our district. >> I have to I was just going to ask the director to type in on the subject. So, can we dictate that he has to go up Chestnut Street and deny him access on
Massav? I don't think we can. >> Oh, because our property's on >> say no, we're not going to sign off on connections on Massabad, but I think you could sue us. It wouldn't been a second. So because until these when do these two
properties become addresses on Chestnut as opposed to addresses on Massav? That's what >> Well, the lots are >> address the lots are addresses on Chestnut, right? >> Well, these are going to be separately needed. Are they separately?
>> They they already are, right? >> They must be assuming they're under the same owner right now. >> They've been approved through the planning board. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that the plan has been recorded yet, but >> So, if I understand what the director was just saying
that until these are sold, they are officially still this is this old property is still an address on Massav until they sell. Is that how that works? >> So, you don't technically get an address until you pull a building permit, I
believe. >> Right. And then and then the building department and the fire department says, "Okay, this is going to be 22 Chestnut Street or whatever that number is." That that's how that all comes down. >> And the permits haven't been yet. >> No, I'm sure they haven't. They haven't got they haven't got past this point.
>> And actually, you know what to update my comment. It's three new tie-ins on Mass because on septic, >> it's three new tie-ins >> on Mass, >> right? one to an existing stub. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. So, we don't know where it is yet. We do,
>> but Yeah. >> Well, all right. Sorry. You do. I'm sorry. >> Because this this stub right here might service his house. I mean, if it's down in this area, that would be one stub right there. They wouldn't have to go in. >> So, then they would just have to do it this way in that one. So, >> so
I mean, >> it' be interesting. >> I guess I'd like to >> Sorry. >> Um, did you finish your thought, director? I think so. >> Okay. Um, >> which is a very good point by the way that you know >> if he can go to
>> so theoretically they they the decision if I understand correctly is actually probably going to come down legally to are we doing three or one. >> Is that what we're looking at here? >> Well, it's not that they can do three.
>> They could do what they want to pass out. >> So it doesn't matter. >> But now there's the new ring. Do we know if there's anywhere in the town laws that say that >> sorry town bylaws that you you know if you're building on a street do you have to tie into that street
>> you know or do you run through the woods four miles to tie into somewhere else like what's to stop that you know so >> that's been done >> if you own the property >> No no no I I'm just talking about just because it's more convenient or cheaper
>> no I understand what we have to do I just I'm seeing a gray area in front of me cuz these are going to be Chestnut addresses. >> There's no getting around that. >> Mhm. >> So once they're chestnut addresses, if
they were addresses first, they could not be coming to Massav anyway. They would have to run a ST. But they're separately owned, separately deed properties. We wouldn't even be discussing this. Even if they have access all through here
>> they have frontage and that's where >> I'm sorry everyone's talking >> I'm just saying that even though their address is here >> right >> they still all have access to mass air >> they can run they can run their line independently. Okay. So, >> and that's where
>> that's what I wanted to say. So, the first draw up, I know we have nothing to do with it, but the first draw up of that >> plot on the top right is kind of insane just to get the square footage for a buildable lot uh to snake it down and
run it along the tree. I know that's all trees there on the right side, you know what I mean? So, it's it's it's empty property. Um, and they're just doing it to skirt the >> square footage. >> That's I think we kind of need to step
back >> and now we know what the decision is. You know, the two decisions that are at our disposal is do we have them do separate
access to mass evol? So, do we wait to see where that stub is? Do we wait to see if it might turn into an 8 in to make this decision or do we say um put up two options to talk further
about >> Could you answer that question tonight? I mean, would it have to be 8 in? >> I can't answer that. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, the hearing tonight is for a waiver to grant an easement >> that we could tie into one. So that's
the only thing we can vote on tonight. Everything else beyond that is >> speculative. >> So if we say no to that, then they can come before, >> right? They might come back with three. They might say, "Yeah, I'll go up to Chestnut Street, do an extension." We don't know that. >> Now, I understand your reasoning for
want the answers to that. we can continue it to get you those answers. Show it on the plan and then modify whatever we need to to accomp to accompany or to know that whether you have the right size if you have to upgrade that size because if >> a 6 in will hold those three lots then
you're not actually going into mass you're just tying into the stub and then it would be ruling on whether you would you're acceptable doing that. So that if that happened that if the stub is sufficient, >> right, >> you wouldn't have any tie-ins into I
mean you wouldn't be disrupting any street. >> It would just be tying into a stub >> with no easement individual house tie in 6 in going into the >> No, no, no. There would be easements. He would still go with this plan and tie into >> That's what I'm saying. I I don't
>> to me how could we possibly vote on it tonight if I know Bill says he has the um the tiein here but we don't have it directly marked on here because now how could we be expected to vote on an easement that may actually be changing
>> plus it doesn't meet I don't know if it does but doesn't meet unusual circumstances when they could just individually >> well that's a whole another thing but what I'm saying right now we couldn't possibly vote on an you know, an easement where just in what if the tie-in's down here now this guy doesn't
even have to there's no easement on is it property two I don't even know how we this one two lot two >> two three >> two >> okay so this is lot one so right now it's pretty intrusive on lot one right and so now well what if the tie-in's
down here now you're just going to simply run it >> you know I mean you could run a straight shot and you're still going to need a two variance but I I mean, I wouldn't be comfortable with >> it. Seems >> without knowing the exact place. >> To me, gentlemen, it seems
almost overkill to have them all go all the way to the street if it's all hidden. I mean, if it's all going to massab anyway. Um, now you've got, you know, three separate lines. This one
will have to go over here, I assume. Um, >> yeah. This one would be here. This one would either be down this or on the right side. That one could be a >> streame precedent though. >> No, no. I I I know. But that's what I'm saying. I'm not I don't even think I
need to beat a dead horse at this point. >> With the situation we're facing right now, gentlemen, I I don't see this as a terrible idea. >> So, because >> there is a precedent for 792. >> Okay. >> We did settle granting that. If you're talking precedent,
>> I'm sorry. >> Maybe you saying this would set a precedent, but you set a precedent with 792. It's a similar >> I mean the street >> I know circumstances are different, but the concept of the easement itself is >> there was no other way for 792 to tie
into anywhere. So that's circumstance and for the the at least my understanding when we voted on that was that it was the least amount of disruption and three tieins on mass have shutting down the traffic for the
residents. It was just one shutdown in tie in >> and that line did run parallel to Mass A. >> Yep. And those houses are right up on the street like these ones are proposed. >> One tie in and that was it.
>> The only difference here is really the configuration and where it's running. But >> it is running through an area. I mean, they could never put a pool there, I assume. >> I have no idea. >> I mean, and they either way the line from this
house is going through that area. I mean, it would have to, >> right? And once we determine this location, >> so we're talking like we're preventing future use of the property. >> So this this part of the property is always going to have a line in it whether it's shared.
>> So >> or not. >> So >> by our bylaws, right, they would have to show that it's a financial hardship, right? To even get is that the first one? >> First one's emergency. Second one >> e sorry second one. Third one, best
interest of the town, which I think you made a good case that it's not in the best interest of the town. >> I mean, yeah, I'm saying so there's a lot of conditions that have to be met to protect future develop, you know what I mean? And to protect ourselves from making the
wrong decisions at the same time. And like I, you know, I'm going to ride this until the end and say this is the opportunity to bring Chestnut Street online. Um, I would not be in favor if I have any
say on >> running to Massav on three different connections. >> You would or wouldn't you? >> Wouldn't I would not. >> I know for that. >> Yeah. I Well, no, I know. But I'm saying so whatever. I'm just saying I'm not in
favor of whether I can do anything about it. It's a another thing. But um >> so to clarify, you'd prefer to see three connections. >> I would prefer to see a spur run of chestnut and they can tie in the address on Massav to Massav and then if they
really want to, but it's still going to be, you know, might be more economical for them to run the other way. But even then, that's still just literally defeating what I'm saying the other way, you know. So, I understand that they
don't want to build the spur out. I just think it's to detriment of the town that that's going to set back any possible um future bringing that whole section online that's been in our expansion map
for 20 years. >> You mean you're referring to Yeah. Yeah. Chestnut. Yep. Chestnut. Yeah. Sorry. >> Right. But as that's not even in the option now because they're going to be going to Massavi the way. >> Yeah. So why do they need the easement?
>> So we don't have to go multiple connections at the min. >> That's really that's really the easement is just to keep them from going into Massav three times. >> Interesting stuff. the option of three times or one time >> kind of like almost exactly across the street. >> Okay.
>> Where um and this line that's going to the street is going to be there either way because it has to come this house has to go there anyway. >> So the difference would be this section would be turned into a longer section and dug into the street Massab again
>> and this house would have its own line. >> That's a Massav residence. >> Yeah. My issue is that why would I say okay to a new tie-in to Mass A for two properties on Chestnut Street?
>> I understand the reason is because as it was just clarified, this property has the right, no matter what we say, to bring all of these units to Mass App at this time. Uh I mean that's I thought we
kind of didn't get the answer if you had to >> if if an addressed lot >> right but the addresses aren't on chestnut yet >> but even if they are they have access on >> yeah because it was a the whole property
was in utility do that all the time they come in the back of your property. Thank you. Yeah. So >> so that that debate >> Okay. Thanks for the clarification of >> that word. >> But property one in the corner there, that's a mass property. You said
>> property one is a mass property. >> So the ri the line they'd be running would be through private property. >> Right. >> Right. >> If other people tie in that turns it into an easement now that's not just private property. >> Well, it's only an ement three separate
private property. So >> yeah, >> is that you know >> it's still owned by the same person. They just given an easement for lot two and lot three until later. >> They're the they're the owner of the land, the deed land, but now they're sharing the land. >> Right. Right.
>> So either way, all of these properties are going to have pipes in these areas. The difference is the pipe from the existing structure is going to meeting with the pipe from this future structure
and then another short stretch goes to where this pipe has to go either way. >> That's only on the east. >> Um so basically you're reducing the size of the footprint to get sewer to mass. That's really all this is doing. It's reducing the footprint on the private
property. Um the waiver I mean having um these easements is almost changing nothing for the future even if we force them to go to main um mass directly. It's there's
going to be pipes in all these areas anyway other than >> keep it on their own property >> 20T here. >> It keeps it on their individual properties. >> Yeah, that's the thing. >> Right. And they do run over each other's property right here. >> That's what the easement's for. But that's what we would, you know,
you know what? If they want to go the three connections to Massab and we can't stop it, that's fine. But >> right now, I'm not in favor of the easement. >> We're we're essentially back to the same decision we had last week. >> So, do we want to vote on it now or do you guys want to wait for more information?
Well, >> because I think we we point. I know. No, I know. >> Aren't there What's your thought on that? >> Just to clarify, >> just to clarify. So, if we continue it, we can get you the info for whether that 6 in can handle
these. >> Mhm. >> And if that's the case, we propose the same scenario. I'll be a different route. >> But we wouldn't be going into Mass. We would just be going tying into the stuff. the existing stuff. >> Right. >> Right. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Well, that >> I'd like to I'd like to continue it until we have that info. >> I just >> I just think it makes sense >> and I understand where you're coming from. >> But I just if you have the all the
correct information and we can alleviate even tying into Massav and just tying into that stub >> without even digging into the rip. >> Right. >> Right. I think that would be that would be scenario. >> That'd be an easement use option. >> Yes. >> Still still an ement like this
>> and then we're not even tying into the street. They don't even have to have >> we don't have to change the discharge the volume to an 8 in there or anything. >> That's what okay. >> If we continue then we'll come back with that information. The location of the stone >> and like Dan was shocked
>> Go ahead. Dan was shocked that last week that they jumped to an eight because isn't >> probably necessary. I mean, six is a pretty big pipe. >> You know, I I work with 4 in a lot and a 4 in pipe takes a lot. A 6 in will take
a huge amount of volume. And if everybody in all these houses flush for the toilets at the same time, it would probably still accommodate that. It would It would. I mean, it >> Mhm. >> So, they say yes to the easement. There's only possibly no tiein. >> There's a tie in, but there's no digging
on Mass, >> right? >> If we say no to it, they can just do it anyways by doing three separate private tie-ins at Mass. >> Three separate private tie-ins and two of them two of them for sure would have to be dug into the street. >> Yeah. Right. And there's one tie in
there already. The other >> here. >> Yeah. >> Knowing there must be a stub somewhere. >> Yeah. >> Basically, we can count on not having to dig into Massab at all. And and I'm still going to say that, you know, even if that stub is there, I still think for
the best interest of the town is not to grant the easement and to >> that put no develop Chestnut Street. >> I agree. But we can't ask them to do that. >> Yes, we can. >> If they want that proposal on an
easement, >> all right. Is there >> we don't know what they're going to come back cost conducive to them to run these incredibly long runs now from Chestnut Street. You're right. We can't stop that. But now it may be more cost
effective for them to run the spur off Chestnut than three different digups and runs all the way and tie-ins to Mass App and dealing with Mass. >> I think we're Hold on one second. Um I'm gonna ask the director again.
Is there no matter what happens here, no matter when the house these properties are sold, all these people on this property have a right to tie into Massav, no matter what we say. Right. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, how do we get them to go down Chestnut Street?
>> So, what Scott's saying is if they figure out what this costs, what that costs, and what that cost to tie into Massav. >> Oh, I see. as compared to going up there. >> Yeah. >> Would they go that way rather than >> So if we said no, you have to know that
you have to tie in here and you're talking the next three separate permit fees from mascot, right? And so what's easier working on a private street uh in a in a town or you know
>> um then I'm going to ask Dan if he's done more of this firsthand than any of us and firsthand knowledge of the cost of digging in the streets and and also um like to hear the directives I put on this
even though he'd be digging two he'd be only be digging two holes with the three correct end of the street. >> Well, yeah, if there is somewhere. >> So, you'd be digging into the main uh in the mass twice over here and then you're just digging through dirt with a 6-in
pipe. >> Pretty straight shots >> as opposed to tying into the manhole over here running on the main as well. >> Several hundred feet. So that's one time with
>> cool bus stop >> with cut off uh with tie-ins along the way including their own. >> Mhm. >> Um being in construction myself, I'm not even going to guess which costs more. I can guarantee running a new main
which would be great. They'd be out of their mind. I mean pricewise this >> really because they already seem as they mentioned in the beginning they already know that they might be running into land. They already mentioned they might be running in ledge here. Um I think they know they're running in the ledge
here and that's just thrown out there. That exponentially increases their cost. >> But it's going to up the street. So is it going to be >> I I understand. But I'm saying I'm sure there's not that much ledge in 50 ft running from u the chestnut street.
>> Um okay. Is there any known ledge right in this particular >> Yeah. All ledger all cings over here >> on top of that hill. >> Yeah, right by the by the playfield. >> Yeah, right on the back side of the pocket. >> Even where they used to plow the snow right there. >> Even that house sits on top of a hill.
>> Yeah, it's all ledge. Yeah, for sure. >> And what about down this end? Do we know if there's >> Well, it drops off down here. That's why it's >> it's actually below the road, >> right? >> Yeah. >> But >> can I just make a suggestion? Can we ask him to get us this information for the next meeting?
>> Yes. >> Just because and if you want to tell your clients that too that you know we we may want to see a >> cost differential type of thing. I mean I can give this plan to someone tomorrow and get a ballpark price on that sewer run up there. You know that's not a huge
deal. I'm not a huge street sewer guy but um my gut feeling is this is probably cheaper. believe it or not. Mhm. >> You know, I mean, the >> drive tie-ins, >> the two tie-ins in the mass highway and the time frame and stuff. I mean, you know, for guys that do that all the time, it's a pain in the ass more than
it's >> cost. It's, you know, a day's worth of work or, you know, a day and a half, that type of stuff. So, this is still a wrong run. This is about 350 ft cuz actually it's close to 500 >> for the main 500. >> That's right. Exactly. So,
>> and tie along the way. >> Yeah. and then repaving this entire stretch over the >> possibly sidewalk so you don't have to worry about >> um so okay well
>> I'm going to ask the um the other commissioners um Scott do you agree with his idea >> yeah I would >> yeah come back with the >> put the ball in their court right it puts the ball They're caught and they're going to make a decision on cost.
>> Yeah. Okay. And I >> No, might help us might help us the other way. We don't know yet. >> Yeah. But they're going to come back with a >> accurate plan of where the tiein is and then we can decide on the easement and then you know if they have a contingent plan of the
>> it should be possible to find out exactly where the stub is between now and next meeting. >> Yes. Yeah. And Andrew is confronted follow me. So that why don't we do that? Yeah. I did. Yeah.
Steve. >> All right, gentlemen. >> I'd make a motion that we ask them to get us additional information for the next meeting so we can discuss it. >> Um, do we need to make a vote on that or do we >> or do we have to make a motion to extend
it? Right. >> Motion to extend this hearing. Okay. Thank you. I just make it. >> Yep. We have a motion. I'll second the motion. >> It's been seconded. We'll go around the room. Dan >> I, >> Scott, >> I, >> Arthur. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. That motion carries.
>> All right. Now, we need to I'll make a motion to extend the permitting process. So, we don't have the same deal, right, Andrew? We wouldn't have to petition public again if we did. That's fine. >> Extend this. >> No. Do we need to vote on it?
>> Um, we need to Yeah, we need to vote. >> All right. I make a motion to extend this plan until the next meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I need a second. >> I be seconded. >> Um so we're doing a second. >> You call for Yeah. vote to accept. >> Um that's been seconded. Arthur.
>> Hi. >> Scott. >> I Dan. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. >> Fair enough. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you for all your time and effort >> and we'll see you in a couple of weeks. Sounds good. Thank you very much. Take
care. Ryan, >> a couple weeks is in person, too, right? >> Yeah. >> Um I think this best suit >> Oh, wait. No, we a month out. You guys are a town meeting. >> One has a town meeting in Veterans Day. So, there's really, you know, >> Yeah, we're a month old.
>> Yeah. So, the next one is going to be November 25th. >> Okay. >> So, we can make that in uh in person as well. >> Thanksgiving week. >> So, yeah. Then it wouldn't be until December. 's closed. Yeah. >> So, be a hybrid. Yeah.
>> 25th. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's enough, >> gentlemen. Um, >> moving moving right along. I need to be somewhere before 8:00. >> I didn't expect the meeting to actually go two hours. >> Um, are is everyone on board with moving
with our current business into our current business? >> We have a second presentation. >> Jeez, I'm sorry. I >> He lost again. was he was he yeah he was nice enough to uh >> reschedu for us. Uh we apologize.
>> I'll talk I'll talk for you. So >> if you want me to leave the room actually to leave the room you just can't vote to leave. >> So this is where Dan has to abstain in this one. >> Okay. Very good. Um >> that's why we didn't have a
>> Okay. So answer what time do we have? >> 7:31. >> Yes. 7:32. >> 7:32. >> So, we are going to open this second hearing at 7:32 p.m. Um, regarding
an easement request for 8:30/832 Massav u a waiver request. Um, and Ryan Proctor from Dillis Roy is going to give us our presentation at this time. Right. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ryan Proctor Dillis. I'm here representing the owner
of 830 Massav, uh, which is this house indicated in brown. Um, as was just writing to the record, we are here seeking a waiver to allow a sewer connection through an easement. The easement I've shown here in in green is the green triangle. So 830 Mass is this
house here and then 832, just for reference, is a back land lot. So the access strip is this black strip here. These bold lines are run to the back of the property. Um, so I'll just give a very brief history on this uh site. So back in I believe 2021 or 2022, 830
Massad was subdivided and 832 Massad was created out of that parcel. When Dillis and Roy had done that ANR plan, it was not caught at that time by us or uh or the town during the ANR process. But the sewer stub that was formerly installed
for the 830 Massav parcel actually ended up being on the 832 Massav piece when that lot was created. That was not caught until recently uh when we went to provide the sewer connection for 830 Massav. So, instead of providing a new
tie-in for the 830 Massav house, uh, which would require going through the driveway, opening up a new curb cut within Massav, uh, tying a new stub, we're proposing to install a manhole within that easement at the end of the existing stub where that is currently located, providing the connection
alongside the property line to the 830 Massa House. And then at the same time, we would have a stub um also installed that could provide a future connection if required or necessary in the future to service the 832 Massav parcel. So we' be utilizing the existing sewer stub.
All the work would be done on the back side of the sidewalk and would provide be providing a connection to those two residential properties that are both located within. >> We wouldn't even have to break into the sidewalk for those. >> No, we on the back side of the sidewalk. We wouldn't have to open Massav. Um yeah, we'd be outside of the rightway
entirely with this work. >> How much of that pipeline would be in the easement? Is it the green area? >> Uh just just the green area. >> And how many feet is that about? >> Uh so this uh SC Thank you. Got one last week and I forgot it.
Uh so it's about uh 13 feet after the manhole. >> Um small dig. Would it be a big dig? >> No, relatively small. Uh the grade does drop down off the road here. Um so but we would just run right up the property line gravity the whole way to a second manhole in the back here um that we'd
connect into the sewer on the 830 massive piece. The existing septic systems in the back um here. >> Okay. >> Bill, can you bring it up? >> So >> 8:30 on like satellite or whatever. I'm just trying to see where exactly it is because I know we spoke about this two
weeks ago because it involves one of my neighbors. So >> but apparently I don't have to abstain. So that's good. I just want to see where exactly it is. I know his property because he above my bro. >> Yep. >> Let me get this.
>> Right. This one is 8:30. >> Correct. >> And that's 8:32. Right. >> Uh 8:32 is uh Southernly. The the yellow highlighted right now. That that one's 832 right there. It's it's labeled as zero. >> So that's 10. >> Oh, so there's even right there.
>> That's right. Yeah, that little triangle. We just grabbed that triangle essentially of the access. >> Okay. >> So then big properties they go way back, >> right? They go way back there. >> Yeah. >> And the unit was back there, right? Is that >> No, Riley Road. >> Oh, Riley. That's right. Yeah.
>> Yes. It's these two. >> Okay. And and while we're looking at that, there there three waiver uh requirements that we need to address when we submit these. I can go through those quickly. If there's any questions on that, I'm happy to speak to them. >> Um, but the first requirement when you
grant a waiver is relative to emergency circumstances. >> As I mentioned, the house is on septic system currently in the back. Um, my grandfather actually installed a system 65. So, the system's 61 years old. When the ANR plan to create the second lot,
the 832 piece was done back in 2022. The board of health actually required the previous owner to connect to sewer. that was not done at this at that time. So ultimately it has become the burden of the current owners uh who are trying to sell now to do so. Um so that's why we've come up with a way that is less
intrusive and and found a way to do that. >> Um so that is our first criteria which is a quick question. >> Sure. Um >> the houses for sale >> and I'm sure you already mentioned this but yeah by >> hearing that little triangle
where we have to do the waiver. Yep. that's going to belong to the lot that's being sold. >> Uh, no. So, the easement is on 832 for the for the benefit of 8:30. >> No, I understand that. Okay.
>> But in its own right with the stub on it, it's going to benefit >> 32 as well. >> It's going to benefit both. Yes. >> 8 832. >> Yeah. In in this case, we are not providing a sewer connection to a lot that's outside of your sewer district.
meaning 832 is within with is located within your sewer service district. So it would otherwise be able to connect. Same thing for 830 massav. We're just trying to consolidate services here um based on a weird circumstance that ended up um coming to light when we did the ANR plan a couple years ago.
>> And if this wasn't approved, what would the situation end up being? >> Yeah. So uh the frontage for 830 Massab is from here. Um this is the other front corner here. So they could provide a connection their existing driveway and they do have quite a bit of a paved apron here. So they'd have to cut into
Massav with with a DOT permit cross probably under their driveway or some snaked configuration around this side and then run it all the way around to the back uh to connect there. Um given the existing sewer configuration in the basement, I don't think it's feasible to do a plumbing change to have it come out
the front. >> Right. That's what I was thinking when you're doing that. >> Yep. >> All right. Very good. Uh let's go around the room. Um we'll start with Arthur. Do you have any questions where >> I don't have any questions though >> and Scott D. >> Bill, can you just expand the I know
it's only cut off there. I know where the the triangle just um pan out. Sorry. >> Yeah. I want to see how far just Okay, it's >> okay. So Oh, so can you click on that
again? So that is that is Tanner's property. >> Yeah. >> Um and click on one for a minute. I think that's >> Yeah. So it's actually both pieces are T or Tanner's that big one. >> Yeah. Cuz my house is on the front right
there. The first one on the right. Yeah. >> Um but that's the actual driveway easement is between the two ones. Yeah. So, so I'm saying that that even part of isn't you know and Tanner's on board
with this. >> Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> he signed the application that we submitted. >> Yeah. And it's never going to affect, you know, these trucks come in and out, you know, next to my house. So, I don't see him even building over there. So, if he's signing off on it, I'm fine with
it. I know that house has been for sale for a little while. Surprising >> that it didn't sell. And this is what's holding it up. >> Yeah. This is the contingency, I think. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and you've already answered my questions. Um this makes sense to me. It's um
it allows for future expansion where it would need to be potentially. Um it makes sense to me. Um why don't we um bring it to uh why don't I ask for motion? >> That's going to be another man manhole
going to put there. Yeah. >> Okay. >> On private property. >> That doesn't exist now though, right? >> No. >> Okay. That's going to be added. >> Yeah. >> And this is going to And but it's also servicing the address behind it, right? 8:30 and 832. Is it? >> Yeah. We're we're preparing for that
with that extra stub. That way we didn't have to open up the road or or do anything crazy down the road. >> That's one of the things I >> Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's a, you know, a pretty good bonus on it. And like I said, Tanner's okay with it on the, you know,
very edge of his property. >> It's affecting only two properties, not three. >> Very good. Did u did anyone have more questions before we ask for a motion? >> I'll make a motion to vote on the easement request
>> to allow the waiver. >> Yeah. Sorry. >> Okay. I'll second that motion. >> All right. We have a motion uh to accept this waiver for an amusement um at 8:30/832 mass. Um it's been the motion and
seconded and I'm going to go around the room. Scott >> I >> and um Arthur >> and I for myself. The motion passes. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Well, we are very clear.
>> Welcome back to the meeting. >> Good to be here. Yeah, thanks for having me. >> I think you have to say we officially closed it this >> Oh, yeah. This concludes um this hearing uh for 8:30 8:32 Massav.
Thank you, Mr. Director. Um and thank you for your time, Ryan. >> Thank you. >> Very good. Um the hearing is officially closed. Um, and >> we shall move on to current business. >> Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve the
minutes of 101425. >> I'll second that. >> All right, it's been made and seconded. Thank you, Gent. >> Um, we'll go around the room. Dan >> I, >> Scott, >> I, >> Arthur. >> I, >> and I for myself. Um we have um the
business manager updates uh and DBW director updates uh VADUs um that we met with town console. >> Yeah. >> Uh the other day and I'm I'm going to have the director >> Yeah. So it was Andrew Brett and Scott
and I we met with town council. We talked about um what we had written up, right, which we talked about at previous meetings and um he was okay with it. He brought up like any lawyers should potential things that could happen, but
this so remote I don't think we have to worry about it. Um I think the big discussion was around the waiver language, right? Right. >> So like like copy the waiver language that we have in in a bylaw, right? we
were talking about tonight and I changed the emergency >> which he would include right to what did I call it unusual um >> or extraordinary uh >> yeah unusual and extraordinary >> extraordinary
>> he was okay with that um so we can the commission can vote to approve that new language as a regulation but he did bring up the fact that the waiver language is going to be different in two spots Right.
>> So in the the existing squad is a bylaw. So that has to be approved at town meeting >> if we are to change it. >> If we had to change it, which he recommended we have the same language in both squads, >> right? >> Right. So we could bring that up into the May town meeting.
>> We had proposing for the change in the May. >> And again, you know, we have different language in two spots. It could be a potential six months. Is it going to come up? Yeah, probably not. It's probably worth the risk. >> And as long as one doesn't cut the other
>> the spring, >> somebody could argue, you know, you're doing this over here, why did you do it over here? >> So, I'm saying like um as long as you know the the wording can be different, but as long as they both meet the same threshold and don't go under it, >> you see what I'm saying?
>> Well, if they're both unusual, but then we say for easements, we want to add the wording of exigent or something like that. It still meets the same as the other one, but now we're adding a little more. I mean, should we consider for easements
a different level of unusual circumstances if you you know what I mean? >> Well, right now it's emergency. >> Yeah. Which is it was basically >> it was just recommended to have the same language. >> Have the same verb. Unusual makes it
less. unusual. Yeah. Was the better term to even for the >> bylaw, but we have to >> bylaw would have to be changed at the next town meeting. It's too late to get >> I know it's easier, but is it better >> and they both meet the same threshold
and then one just goes beyond it if it needs to, you know? >> Well, he recommended the same language in both. >> Okay. But >> it's really just >> and he agreed that unusual was >> right. >> Yeah. basically the better way to go. >> But even Steve from Haley and Ward said,
you know, we set precedents two meetings ago or two weeks ago with what approval we gave. So, I mean, that's really where it always comes down. You open up the can, >> but he has to make that lateral reference to it like saying that I'm similar to that property that you did.
And we already discussed that that it wasn't >> right. Right. So, regarding precedents, our bylaw says there shall be no entitlement to a waiver in the grant of a waiver in one instance. And well, it's not written away. And the grant of a
waiver in one instance shall not require the commission to grant the waiver and any other. >> So, we're not setting precedents. >> It's autonomous each one. >> Yeah. Each one is a >> There you go. >> Yeah. >> That's like zoning. Zoning is the same way. They can argue presidents, but
>> yeah, cuz you came pretty strong with that and now you're saying those are autonomous. It doesn't >> Right. >> each one is its own entity. Okay. >> Good. Good. Yeah. Good to know. >> And sorry interrupting. >> Oh, that's a no. Um, Bill just said everything that I was
going to say. So, >> um, so where are we going from here specifically? >> Yeah. I saw. >> So right now we only have ADU by discussion. We don't have vote. So maybe we could put that on the next agenda. Next >> agenda. Yeah. Vote for the you know the
way that we came up with the the wording >> still about the well that's us technically voting in the >> to in >> pering fees pering process that >> whatever however it's the regulation.
>> Yeah. Just to incorporate into the regulation. say we're a month out on that, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. >> All right. Very good. So, we'll address this >> in our next meeting. Um, is there anything regarding the manhole repair that needs to
>> So, the manholes, frame, and grates came in. They opened up the first one and we went out and they had the wrong size frames. They were too small >> for the great >> Oh, frame and cover. They had new framing covers, but they were too small.
They weren't the same size when they were taken out. So, get them home. Go get new ones. >> So, that's on delay again. >> Well, that would be an update. >> Yeah, it's an update frustratingly. >> Okay. Um, >> been a year we've been discussing.
>> Thank you, director. Um, and future agenda items, we've already started covering that. Um, between you and the director, you'll I think you've got that area covered. Um, and then is there any um public
comment or comment from the commission or staff before we close? Okay. And then um our upcoming scheduled sewer commission activities um our
is going to be November our next meeting is November 25th uh 6 p.m. Zoom meeting. Well, we're gonna change that change in person because it's gonna be a public gonna actually be >> not happening and then move to our
December 9th meeting. Is that correct? >> No, we're not. No, we're keeping the November 25th. It's just it's not going to be um >> It'll be in person. >> Zoom will be in person. >> Oh, it'll be in person. Okay. >> But it'll be a secret hybrid >> in the continuation plans. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Someday I'll get a coar implant to make this a little easier. All right. Uh, well, thank you everybody. Um, and then we'll have a December 9th meeting. Um, and then we'll be again in person.
>> Very good. Um, so I'm going to look for a motion to adjurnn. >> Make a motion to adjurnn. >> I will second that motion. >> We have a motion. It's been seconded. Arthur. >> Hi, >> Scott. >> Hi. >> And Dan. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. Thank you, Lunberg.
Have a great evening.