I'm recording. >> All right. Uh thank you everyone for being here uh for the stormwater task force meeting for May the 18th. Um let's go ahead. Uh I can't see in the room. I'm assuming
there's no public there. >> No. >> Um yeah. All right then. Let's uh just jump straight into uh the topic of the day. Um uh John, you were having Bill pull
something up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Deep dive into the data we got from Western and Samson. >> Uh slide on the beginning. That's it.
>> That looks good. Tim, can you see it? >> Uh, yes, I can. >> Okay. >> All right. So, all right. Let me start with the background. So, basically, the assessor's office publishes and posts on its website a list of all its public
information, all the property values in town and what their sus values are, and identifies the property owner and and the address. And in a perfect world, it makes sense that we would take the spreadsheet that we got from Weston and Samson and
integrate it with that. And basically what you can do is you can correlate the properties with the impermeable area and the come of the fee for each property. Okay. So in my my vision is basically to take the assessor's
latest spreadsheet for the assessed property values and complement it with the impermeable area and the erus and the uh associated storm water fee. So the you know mat lab is the tool that I use to do all this work and what you
can do is you can read in an excel file or or a comma space delimited file and it creates a table and table has columns each column has a header and each then we would complement the table from the assessor's office with three new columns that would basically be impermanable
area erus in the fee so it's that simple um so I loaded in all the data set and what I did is I tried to populate that with the information we got from Weston Samson and there's a whole bunch of different ways to slice and dice the data. So, I just kind of like had fun
just cutting it up every different which way and hopefully that people will kind of go over it. And you don't have to I'm not going to test you on it, but I'm just saying this is how you can look at the data. You can look at a bunch of different ways, different angles. Um, so this is kind of um the seven charts that
basically kind of go through what data looks like. So, this chart uh has the title assessor property values and corresponding erus. So, property index is basically the assessor's spreadsheet has over 5,000 line items in it and each
one of those gets uh I believe each one of those is going to get a property tax bill. Tell me if I'm wrong. >> I don't like Are there churches on here? >> Yeah. >> They don't get Do they? >> Well, they're going to get >> I know, but the So, on the assessor's list is properties that aren't getting
taxes. >> Yes. Right. Right. >> So there's a use code in in the assessors and the use and the use codes some of them are exempt tax exempt. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. So that's something we should go over have to review this. >> So the assessor's list is complete of all personal property.
>> Yeah. >> Wesson and Samson's is not right. >> Oh, they just did 400 some odd properties. >> Okay. >> So someone should do a sanity check to see if they've got all the major properties in town that have large and permeable areas. So, this is kind of showing um
we we'll get to their um data in a bit, but their their data is kind of here, too. So, you can see how the impermanmeable areas kind of start at zero, then they go up to like one, and this is the number of erus based on what the property index is. So, if it's a residential, it's going to have one. And
what I did is I sorted the data so you can see the progression up. So you can see all the exempt ones are the zeros and then all the residential are are ones and then there's the multifamilies which is the twos and the threes and then there's the commercial and industrial and that's when the erus get
to be big. So we can see that the the worst case we have a a 20 eru property which I'm assuming is going to be one of them and you can see the distribution there where they're coming in. >> Yeah. >> So we're very residential heavy. Mhm. >> Um but we do also have some commercial
properties that spike, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Um the chart on the right is exactly the same as the chart on the left except you can see um in closer detail exactly how many properties there are that exceed like one and um how big they are.
uh the red in contrast to the blue circles. For every blue circle, there's a corresponding red dot and the red dot corresponds to if you would use a tier structure, anybody above that number of erus would be in that tier. So the top
tier is 100 according to the CI tier structure that they gave us. So, >> so are some of the the erus on the left side cut off because like the right side starts at property index 5,000. So, it's like 500. >> Yeah. >> Or whatever, however many, 300,
>> right? >> So, it's just the part that was cut off on the left side is now. >> So, it's the same data, but I'm focusing on what the what the imper large impermeable area properties look like. >> So, why u like 100?
It's like multiply by 10. Oh, ERUS are >> on the right side. The scale is 0 to 20. >> They're ERUS on both side, >> but the left side is 0 to 20 and the right side is 0 to 200. >> The taxes the exempt properties are zero. They're not going to get ERUS.
They're four and conservation land. And >> I'm just looking at the the scaling for the Y ais, >> right? >> Go. It's the top is 20 on the left side and 200. >> You're complaining because the >> No. Is that is that >> is it just missing the zeros? >> It should go to 200. You're right.
>> On both sides. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I'm going to take that back. The one on the left is designed to show you what look what the tiers look like for the lower ERU, the family of lower erus. And the one on the right is designed to show you what the
distribution looks like for the higher EU properties. Okay? Okay. So, if I had scrunched it off into one plot, then everybody would have been squished down at the bottom and you would see a spike at the end. >> Yeah. So, the graph on the left, >> yeah,
>> you cut off. There's there's ones that go up to over a 100 and they're just cut off. >> So, you can see those on the right. >> Okay. >> So, all the information. >> So, the axes are correct. The scaling. Okay. >> So, like I said, if I had scaled the left one from 0 to 200, >> it would have squashed everything.
>> It would have Yeah. The one would have been a flat line. And you wouldn't be able to see. >> Although it looks like you're still going to property index 5300. >> Yeah. >> On the left. >> Yeah, I do. I go to property index 5300 on the right. On the left, it just gets
it's just off scale. You don't see >> Oh, it's still around 20. Okay. Okay. >> It's still there. You just don't see it. >> Okay. >> It's out of scale. >> Okay. So that that shows you how heavily weighted we are towards residential, but it also shows you that we do have a respectable number of properties that
have a large >> impermeable area. >> And that that's the Western Samson data. >> So what if the property wasn't included in a Weston Samson file? How do you get the eru? >> Um, we'll get to that. >> Okay. >> Okay. We'll get
>> to have >> So that's plotted here. >> Look at that specific property, right? But no, John plotted it here. He came up with an eru on his own. >> I did. >> Yeah. >> So, we can do that together. I'm not saying I'm I'm I'm the tail that wags the dog. >> No. No. No. >> So, the second file I I forwarded to you
has all the use codes in the assessor spreadsheet >> and we have to assign the number of erus for each of those use codes. The residentials are a no-brainer. If it's like a 100 property or 101 is res single family residential, make it a one. >> If it's two families, it's two.
>> Yeah. It's three families, three. If it's um not on the spreadsheet, Weston Samson spreadsheet, >> and it's not exempt from a stormwater tax, like it's a vacant lot. Yeah. >> Then they get a one. >> So, we have to decide which properties
use code properties get ones and zeros and twos and threes. >> Okay. Like uh chapter what is it? 61. The forest. >> Yes. >> That has no impervious. >> Yeah. All that data is here. >> Okay. >> I'll show it to you. So I get a zero anywhere. It's >> Yeah.
>> No, >> people own land in chapter, right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So all that data is here. It's beautiful. They gave us a nice set of data >> and I slice it so many different ways. So all your questions should get answered. I'm sure you can have some
questions. Uh why don't you go to the next one? See I I don't I can't remember what the order of one. >> So does this make more sense than the data we got before from CI? Um, it correlates with what CI gave us. >> Okay. >> Not perfectly, but it does correlate. >> Okay. >> Go to the next page somehow.
>> Yeah. >> Don't I don't want >> Yeah. Just go to the next chart. >> Perfect. That's it. >> All right. Now, I got to go back and share. >> You have to share it again. >> Oh, it's in the bottom middle. The share
button. >> So, I'm doing things up. This foolish thing is driving me nuts. So, I got to go back to Did I close Zoom? Oh, no. It's over here. This one?
Yeah. Yeah. You are screen sharing. It says you're sharing it, >> right? >> I still see it. You can if you go to the slideshow icon on the bottom right >> there's a little dynamic projector screen on the rail all the way to the
right just to the left of the slide bar left of the slide bar. >> Oops. You know what I'm doing? >> Just go to the left. The icon to the left. >> See the icon on the left side of that? That's it. Yeah. >> Perfect. >> Yeah. >> You should be able to arrow to go forward and back once you're in here.
>> Yeah. Android edge down sometimes does it too. >> Yeah. >> Right. So this so basically if you go to the mass use codes it's a document that's published online. You can access it and tells you what what the standard property codes are for all these different properties.
So there's ones and twos and threes and ones are the residentials. Two you remember what two is that open space? >> This is like the the 10 I remember 1010 is single family. So are you talking like 1020? Um, >> that's condo.
>> It confuses the heck out of me because the assessor's spreadsheet has use codes that are in the thousands. >> That's what I'm used to seeing. Four-digit use code. >> I don't know why they append another code, but if you go to mass use codes, they're numbers like 101 and 102.
>> Add a zero to it. >> Okay, I did. That's what I figured out. >> That's how it matches the assessment. Yeah. >> So, the very first digit in whatever the use code is tells you which property type is. So, one's a residential. So I think two is open space, three is commercial, four is industrial,
um some place I think nine is municipal. Um one of them is remember >> recreational. >> Actually I might be able to tell you what they think I have a chart that has all this stuff on. >> Oh. Oh. Commercial, industrial,
agricultural, forest, vacant, recreational, and miscellaneous. Okay. So does that make sense? So that's the distribution of our properties. >> Yes. So it's mostly one. >> Yeah. So very heavily weighted residential.
Yeah. But the commercial is not nothing. There is there's a bunch of threes and fours there. And you can see what the threes and fours are in relationship to the ones. >> Mhm. So, it's same information except it's zoomed in so you can actually see what the relationship is between all those other property codes besides the ones.
If you go to the next do page, there you go. Page down. So, this right here, there's a there's a little tiny blip >> for every use code. Now, it's not now it's not like the broad categories like all residentials up together. Now it's
the individual use codes that have a three-digit code. >> So you can see how some of like the 300s, they're spread out all over the map. >> There's like gas stations there and retail and and what else is just but every, you know,
every flavor of um commercial is in the 300 series and then the 400 series. And you see there's a bunch of 600s and 700s and 800s and there's a they're scattered all over the place. a bunch of 900s and even the residentials are spread out. So that's how many of the different types
that we have. So that's really dissecting the data. It's kind of hard to digest that way. You can see how many use codes there are. >> I'll go to the next chart. Well, oh perfect. This is kind of what I was hoping to get to. Um
so this is kind of like a pie chart like we had presented before. So this is the storm water fees by property type. So the residentials are the big blue. That's the big slice of the pony. And then you can see the
commercial and the industrial. And there's exempt there. So I think some of the exempts are like the churches and stuff like that. So if you do it by tier, then that's the distribution between the residential,
all the others. if you do it by eru because you're not truncating you're not you know not like you're not truncating all those erus to like a like the top the top like the beginning of the tier you know what I mean then you get a
little bit more money because you're getting you taking credit you're making pay for every eru you're not kind of like saying oh you're in this tier so you're going to have to pay this fee >> but you're still all of the single families are the same eru >> yep one eru
So what do you say the one on the right just not tears you just pay by year >> pay by year. >> Okay. >> You get like a 10% bump in revenue if you do that because you don't truncate it to the top of the year. If that makes sense. It's like all
those red all those blue circles kind of collapse down to the red dots. Right. It was in that first chart. >> But if you get if you say well let's go by the ERU. It's only fair and jury's kind of her argument was well if someone changes their property they're still
inside the same tier but if someone adds in permittable area they're probably not going to tell us and if someone takes away from they're probably going to tell us we go in the frame of mind or charge them by the area. >> So why did the residential change from
the piece of the pie change a little bit? >> Because it's the same budget but now what you're doing is you're charging more to the commercial. Oh, this is based on how much of a budget. >> I think it's is 460. Well, right now it doesn't matter what the budget is. This would be
>> But it's based on the amount of money you're trying to raise. >> Whatever that is. This would be the distribution because the distribution erus doesn't change. You set your budget and that sets basically what your fee is per u. If you want a bigger budget, it's a bigger fee per eru. >> Uh,
>> so whatever your budget is, this is the distribution. You're sort of stuck with that. And there's no other or the chapter 61 are they really zero or you reallyed >> zero >> because they don't have impervious area.
>> Yeah. >> Is a chapter 61 is all forest. >> Yeah. Go to the next one. I think you may have skipped one or two. Not sure. Um well we already saw this one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Keep going. Oh, there's one. So I
wanted to compare this to what we had presented to the town during that that snow event. >> Two people involved in >> Yeah. >> So what we had done is based on what CI had given us for preliminary data about a year ago. >> Uh
>> we put together that pie chart on the right and the data based on the western sin is on the left. So they correlate very very well. Um what so I try to understand why the residents are paying a a bigger piece of
the pie than they what we had projected and from what I can tell um CI had told us that there was 4247 residences and 36 um I'm sorry 4247 parcels and 3649
residences. So, I assumed that just the residences are going to get build, but I'm not so sure that's the case because what's the difference between parcel and residence? Don't doesn't everybody get a bill? I'm not so sure what the difference is
between parallel and residents only. >> Well, the parcel could be a wait, was it in blue? They're calling it residential. I mean, parcels are could be business is business is not homes. Residential is just homes
are condos in there too. >> Yeah. If every line item in that assessor spreadsheet gets a property tax bill and it's an independent property residence or commercial or industrial or other. >> Then everybody should get a bill and I guess >> but not everyone on the assessor's list
is getting a tax bill because they have tax exemption. >> Okay, I understand that. But but the ones that we deem >> Yeah. >> should get one. Yeah. >> Yeah. So I I says, "Why don't we give all 4367 parcels
a fee?" And if that's the case, then the residences are there's more um there's more bills going out to more people because there's more parcels. >> I think CI was missing properties. Their list was incomplete because it was old. >> That would make sense,
>> right? I like that because now everything kind of sort of m clicks >> cuz the just look at total parcels. They're they're based on 4247 and you have 4367. >> I based what was on the right on 3649. >> That's >> Oh no, that's just the the the blue
piece of the pie. >> The blue piece of blue pie has 4247. >> Yeah, >> cuz I think they missed part I think they missed properties. >> Yeah. And it could be a mixture of residents and other because their data
was 10 years old. >> Oh, >> right. >> Even our assessor data that they used was 10 years old. >> Did they use our assessor did? >> I don't. >> They must have gotten that data from some place. >> Well, all I know is >> I thought it was GIS based. >> I gotten my information from the time
assessors >> which is the most current. >> I would like to think it was a 2025 2026 >> assessors. Yeah. So, we weren't too far off. And >> I think we ignore CEI and just start fresh. >> So, if we stay on the left and I I tried
to reach out to Linda, who's like the assessor and I guess she took leave of absence. So, >> she's resigned. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Yeah. >> So, who's filling in for her? Is that >> Don't know yet. I don't know when her last day is actually. >> Okay.
>> She has been out on leave. >> Okay. Um, so I never got back. I wanted to just ask her some sanity check questions like this number that's in your spreadsheet, is that really what your tax is based on for your commercial properties? Because I wanted to like
eventually I want to compare what the the storm water fee is and compare it to what they're paying into property taxes and if they're if there's this imbalance there, I'd like to flag it. Um, you know, Anna had brought that up and >> it's something to think about. You know, you don't want to double somebody's property tax with a a big storm water
fee assessment. Um, so that's kind of where we're looking. Um, going to see what else there's. I think there's a couple more that are worth looking at. That's the old one. Keep going. Um, oh, this is what you This is what I wanted to talk about. So, u per use
codeexemption status. So, these are all the use codes, right? And they go from 101 all the way up to like 9,000 and something. So, there's probably about a hundred use codes. I typed them in one by hand. It's a lot of fun. I will watch
TV with my wife. >> So, you can see the residences. The spike right there is the is single family, two family, three family. >> Everybody else gets one that's deemed to get uh an ERU. Um there's a lot of
properties there. This is these are the this is what I'm kind of going into this the spreadsheet with. So, this is not looking at a permeable area. This is basically your your your baseline or your starting eru independent of
>> just based on use code. >> Yes. So those properties that do have independent uh impermeable areas assessed those numbers will change. Okay. So that's those erus will change
in response to what they're you know how many erus they have. So what has the two and three >> double family and sing triple family? >> Oh >> yeah. >> What do you do for condos? >> Um at this time I put a a single family
one eru for each condo. >> For each condo. >> Yeah, we can change that but this is got going in position. This is just to get data so we can look at it and and digest it, sleep on it, let it marinate. So for single family, you assign a one eru. And
how does that change when you base it on impervious area? >> If it's residential, they're a flat fee of one eru. >> Just stay at one. >> Yeah, because we're not going to assess every individual properties. We've already decided that I like to think. >> And what what's a charge per eru?
>> Well, >> that's interesting. >> Um, so is there more? >> These are your slides. So I came up with $78.82 per eru
>> for a year. >> Yeah. Based on that distribution in all those properties. >> So a single family. Okay. >> And it gets us how much money? >> What you had originally budgeted. Now if that comes down in response to like the
new budget, then that'll come down even further. But your budget you had proposed that you wanted is what the basis was for that 7882. And I think the thing that brought it down is that extra thousand properties in the residential >> that got missed.
>> Yeah. >> And it's still growing. >> Yeah. >> So what's the highest? >> Um there's a I think it's the Walmart. They're close to 20. Um >> 20 eru >> 200 200.
>> Oh no, that was two. Yeah. 200 or 100 something. >> Yeah. So, this is me trying to reconcile my spreadsheet with Weston and Samson. I found that a lot of This is a good one. Look, just pick one at random. No matching assessor data. I could not find assessor data for that property.
>> So, I updated the Westman Samson spreadsheet to have lot number one. So, there's all kinds of there's probably about a dozen discrepancies. A lot of them had to do with the owner's name was different. So, I'm assuming that they
got maybe a later version. They must have gotten an assessor spreadsheet from uh Linda before she decided to check out. Um, and it's got maybe like like two dozen property owners that have changed hands and it's up to date. So, I
would like to run this again with what they used if we could get that from them or at some time in the future um you know snap a chalk line and let's do it with the next version. So, do you want to go back? I think there was a couple
charts that maybe we missed and we talked about that. Keep going back. Talked about that. >> Talked about that. Talked about that. talked about that. >> Oh, I think we skipped the skip.
>> Yeah, >> sorry. >> All right. So, what does the title say? Storm water properties. Oh, it even says 78.882 for ERU for all assessor spreadsheet values. So, these are the fees for all of those properties. So, a lot of them are coming in at zero because they don't, you know,
they're exempt. >> And then there's the single families. You can see all the 80 782s. And then you uh start to see some of the higher tiers kick in and it's starting to go up. There's two erus at 160ish.
And then if you blow that up, you go all the way up to 2,000 dollars and you can see the highest property is going to be giving us on the order of like um >> it has to be more than that. >> I think you're right.
>> If because I did 7882* 200 is 15,764. Yep. I bet you >> there's a zero missing. >> I think I need to make that upper limit higher. >> That's what I think I need to do. I can see tier 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. That goes up
to tier eight. >> And how many? >> So, it really needs to go up to tier 10. There is somebody that goes to uh 20,000. You know, I'm actually have that on my thing right here. So we can find >> I don't Yeah, I don't think there was an
eru over 200 at least on the graph unless it got cut off. Right. >> Um got cut off. >> Uh that that one on the right. Oh no, sorry. >> Another one. That one on the right.
Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So whatever that number is, it looks like like a 192 or something like that. 78 82 >> like 15,000. >> Yeah, we were project my number my memory was >> I was think 20,000. >> Yeah, exactly.
>> That's nice because now it's bringing it back down to earth a little bit, >> but it's still a big number. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um, this is not so if is there any other charts that we
missed? We look at that one. Okay. Mhm. >> So, there's the other If you bring up the other file that I sent you, then we can go I can show you what I did and we can we can h it out. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's just a text file.
>> There you go. So, these are all the mass use codes. So, there they are. Residential 200 series is open space. >> Share it. See the other can share.
Oops. >> Yeah. >> Open space has impervious area. How do they define open space? >> Um, I can close and see what I did. Okay. Residential open space. I don't think we have any open space. We didn't
have any 200s. >> Okay. No, we don't. I don't know what open space actually means but >> commercial industrial the 500 series is personal property >> 600 series is chapter 61 agriculture portal agriculture and portal law >> and recreational and exempt. So those
are the categories. So now and this is where this is where everybody needs to start kind of likeing. So the use codes you see the use code there there's it starts with zero zero none none. Yeah, >> go to 101. 101 is the first use code. It's a and it's a residence. It's a
single family residence >> and I assigned them an eru of one. >> Any 101 properties got one area. >> Uhhuh. >> Any 106 properties got zero because for that description, it's accessory land with an improvement.
I don't know how to say that. I don't I don't know how to assign. Yeah, used to that. I'm assuming it's somebody's second lot and they haven't built on it. >> Well, it says with improvement. >> Yeah. >> So, >> I'm going to try to find means something
in Burgus. >> All right. >> Let me look up an example. We can maybe find an address. So, it would be uh 106. >> 106 is found 106. >> 21 Beach View. 26 beach view ring a bell.
>> 57 of them when I was >> a lot on Beach View, three on Beach View so far. Four on Beach View. Bee Street. How about Bee Street? >> What was the number on Beach View? >> Um there's a few. Hold on. Let me go
back. Uh 71. Is this 102 you're looking at? >> Oh, wait. Sorry. Wrong column. >> It's finding it in the wrong column. Uh, this is a PDF, isn't it? >> Is this
>> the assessor's list? >> Yeah, it's an I can convert to you can convert it to Excel >> if you have the >> Yeah, >> if you're on the website and you search it, it just takes a second.
It like pops up after like 10 seconds if you're on like the website version of it. >> I just did a control F or 1060, but it's it's looking in the wrong Never mind, Bill. It's looking in the wrong column. >> Oh, you want 1060? >> I want to limit it to the Yeah, I did a
control F on 1060, but it's not looking at use code. I want to limit it to that use code column. So, hold on. Let me see if I can find one. Here's one. Okay. 23 Charlton Street. house on it. >> 87 Flynn Road
Gibson to three. >> Yeah. >> There's a couple on Goodrich. It looks like there could be, you know. >> Yeah. Is that 435 Goodrich and 441 Goodrich >> Howard Street. I've got I've got 19 records that are 106.
>> Okay. >> Bertrams are here. So it's it's just a garage, right? There's a picture of it. 23 child. So that definitely has. >> So you say that would be qualified for
an assessment, >> I would say. Yeah. >> Yeah, it's got >> All right. >> I can give those a one also. >> So every single one of them get a one? >> I would think so. >> All right. In that case. Um.
>> Oops. What's another >> Oh, we'll just we're going to go a whole list. We'll be done. >> 835 lemon. I don't >> I don't think there are >> that many. Oh, Sean Connory. Seriously, that's somebody's name. >> Oh, he used to be a police officer, too.
>> Yeah, >> that's cool. I love the actor Sean Connory. >> What was it? 8:35. >> Oh, Ryan Proctor has >> Ryan Proctor >> 1523 Mass.
No, it's changing. >> Yeah, they're they're building a house right now. There was a pool house there >> that's gone. >> What is that? Proctor Brian Proctor. >> That's Dan's son. >> Yeah, >> I think these I mean we could check them
there. Sounds like there's maybe some >> I don't draw. It would drive me baddy having to check every single one of these properties out to make sure that they're accurate. >> Yeah. >> But they I mean it but right now my gut is >> one eru.
>> All right. All right. So all right. So I'm updating in real time as we speak. I'll give the 106es >> Yeah. >> one ERU. >> Let me save this as a different file name so I can compare them later if I want to. Now, it did come up in the past some of
these properties that are like, you know, 500 square feet, really tiny versus, you know, 4,000 foot home. Good. >> How do we forgive some really small or do we just give everyone a one?
>> Give everyone a frame of mind to be put in town. >> Yeah, we got to, you know, support the public. As Jenny, I think she has that situation. What does she have? >> Right, Jenny?
>> Say, want to say that one more time? >> I'm sorry. My daughter's leaving for Florida, which is why I So, she just keeps coming in and talking to me. I'm sorry. Um, say that one more time. I know we were talking about houses like
one second ago and and the property values and I heard we were talking about Ryan Proctor. I missed everything after that after 1523 Massav. >> We talked at one point about you know there's some homes that like are 500 ft versus you know a 5,000 foot home. They
all get assigned one eru. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Well, we're talking about properties that are they call them vacant but improvements. So it's >> Oh, that's my house. >> Oh. Oh, you're talking about 106s. >> Yeah, the 106's, right?
>> So that's my garage. >> So I have two parcels, >> right? >> Um >> Oh, >> yeah. So I have one parcel that has my house on it and then I have the diagonal parcel next to it and that has my garage
on it and it's like 150 ft from my house. >> Right. So, how big is that second piece of property? How many square feet? >> It is I think 100. Okay. I think it's 80. It's
somewhere around 100 by 50ish. It's little. >> That's the size of the lot. >> Yeah. So, altogether I have a quarter acre like barely like 24. >> I can't find her property on >> I can't find it's not in the 106es. It's
I am 10 Sunset A and then there's 10 Sunset A East. >> John Sheen. >> Yeah, that's my husband's. >> Oh yeah, that's a one that's a 1060. Yeah, >> I am on the mortgage, but for some reason they decided not to put me >> on the
>> Uhhuh. She's trying to, you know. >> Yeah. >> Uhhuh. >> Just hiding. >> Yeah. No, both Yeah. One of your lots is 1060 and the other one's 1010 code. >> Yeah. How big is the 1060? >> I don't know if it says
>> the 1060 is actually the bigger lot. Um >> it doesn't have area on the spreadsheet. You have to look up the >> permeable area on there. So, my um I know my main lot is 50 by 87
and then I I don't have my it's 10 sunset east on the GIS and it's like a 10 sunset out east and it is 50 I was close. It's 50 by 124.3 and
it's 0.13 acres and my main is.11. >> Is there anything built on it? A garage any paved. You got a garage on it. >> You actually the garage. >> We say that one more time. >> Is there a garage on it or somewhere?
>> Yes. If you look um I don't know if you guys are on the GIS but if you look on it in the very very corner there is a tiny garage and then the rest of it is just permeable. >> Right. >> Okay.
>> The garage is probably like 10 by 15 ft. No maybe 20 by 15 feet. >> 300 square feet. I think we should have these people ask for payments because if that if that's attached to that property, I would not have a problem having your own pavement because
it's obviously the garage for that property, but for some crazy bookkeeping reason, they decided to split it into two parcels. >> If you look at I don't know if you can if you're looking at them, but >> they don't they just touch in the corner. >> So, it's really it's a very strange
setup. But then my neighbor has all the the property next to it and in front of my house. >> So it's >> we have to assign >> we have to assign blanket erus to to to the all the 106s. So yeah, there's a lot of other properties that have
impermanentable area that are being developed. So >> and if it's really just it got split off for whatever reason, it's really part of the same lot, they just get an abatement for one of those. So they get charged once, not twice. >> Yeah, I like that. So Jenny, you got to apply for abatement. Sorry, >> John said. So
>> I probably won't just because of my >> So 109. What do you think? Residents, multiple houses on one parcel. I didn't know how to handle that. >> I interpret that to mean that there's one parcel and it's got more than one house. So they just have a bigger and permeable area. So
>> is it like have an ADU on it or something? That's a maybe. But >> these are the 109s now or the 1090 O's. >> All right. So now >> is that not >> can maybe a condo? >> No, those are 1020s. I think
>> there's 32 of them. >> You have an address. >> Just give me one. >> Um I don't know. Damon McQuade at 49 Brookview Terrace. Oh, he's building a house next to his existing home >> on the same property
>> probably. I mean, I don't know where the property I mean, it's they're next to each other. I don't know if there is a property line. >> Okay. >> It's right across from Mike Nol. Across the street from Mike Nol's house. >> It's probably So, you see the house there now?
>> Yeah. And so I think it's the lot of kind of above that space above because it is to the right of the existing house that he's building. >> Is it the 18 lot? >> No, I think it's still the 17. >> Still 17. >> Yeah, I have a feeling it's that spot right there because it is right next to
an existing. Let me see how up to date Google's Google Maps is. >> What was the address? >> 49 Brook. 49 >> terrace. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Here, Google Maps is up to date.
That's what I'm talking about. See the new house? And then that's the >> Which the new house is this one? >> All right. >> Yeah, that's the new one. >> And that's >> okay. I'm in the frame of mind that are two families going to be living on that property. >> I don't know. What is he? Maybe they
going to tear down the old >> I don't know. >> Looks nice. >> You can tell he's an architect. >> You should see a Halloween when he decorates. He's insane. >> Having the frame of mind to stick with one on that. >> It's the same lot. >> It's the same lot just bigger improvement.
>> I think it's all over the map. >> I think you're going to see that now a lot more with these ADUs now. You know, people putting an in-law or something. >> Yeah. >> It's one property. I'm sure they get one tax bill. It's one address.
>> Yeah. >> How many 109's are there? So, so far got 10. >> 32. Want to try another one for fun? >> Yeah. >> All right. How about here's one that's near to my heart. Jane Hall, uh, Family Vocal Trust, Roy and
Jane, 73 Pine Grove Road. >> That's right down the street from me. >> Yeah. Cool. Do you know Jane? >> I don't think so. That would be on the right side of the road. Like if you're That would be on the Not Lake side of the road, right? >> This my mother-in-law. Yeah.
>> Oh, is that the Is that at the very end of the street on the Not Lake? >> It's the first house after you come off of Lake View Web. >> This is Jane Holes. That's the address. >> Okay. So, it's it's the big the big
white house. Is it the white or the red? >> I park in front of that house whenever I get mail. >> Mhm. >> 72 Pine Grove. >> Oh. Oh, is it 72? Not 73. >> Yeah, >> 72.
>> Okay. 73. >> Oh, 73. Sorry. >> 73 Pine Girl. >> 73. >> Did I 73 Pine Girl. >> I typed in the wrong one. Oh, >> that was it. You hit it right. >> It's funny. Google Maps it says 72. Weird.
>> 73 is across like on the not side. Right. >> And those are the odds. The the evens are on the lakeside >> in there. >> Also, my Google is not good at my neighborhood.
>> Yeah, I'm figuring that out. >> Yeah. So, if you look, it says that I live on Harris A. Sunset A doesn't exist. It's not That's not a real road. That's my driveway. Yeah, that's the house. >> So, this is this is multiple properties
on the same lot. >> So, it says that that house >> is that house apartments or is that one is that a single family? >> I should know. I think she's a tenant. >> I say cuz I feel there's there's like a
whole parking area out front. Yeah. Yeah. She has Yeah, she's an apartment with a tenant. >> Okay, that's probably what it is then, even though cuz it does I mean it's it's a big house, >> right?
>> So, two families are also 10 109's >> really. >> Well, the DLS has multiple houses on one parcel. For example, a single and a two family on one parcel. No. Okay.
>> So, it's considering a duplex then. >> Yeah. >> So, it must be thinking about duplexes and triplexes and then houses like this one. So, should we take a vote? What What's everybody? How's everybody leaning on this one?
>> I mean, if it's a multif family, do they get two tax bills? >> Oh, I don't know. >> They have two addresses. >> I don't think so. If this home only gets has a tenant, then there'd be one tax bill. If there's
not two distinct property owners, like there may be in a duplex. >> There's only one line item in the assessor spreadsheet for this property. >> Yeah. >> So, I think one tax bill. >> Yeah. >> I think we match it up with the tax
book. One eru per residential tax bill. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's not that many. It's not like short for short changing ourselves. Yeah. Um, >> so they probably one year a year then. >> I'm okay with one year unless you most people want to fight it.
>> No, right. Want to move on to 130. So I gave 130. >> That should be zero. I think. >> Okay. >> I have a 130 example. >> Okay. Um, that I own. >> Go back to the spreadsheet. >> It's developable. It does. I don't think
it has things on it. Good. So I think we're in agreement here. Vacant land and residential loans. So vacant. So yeah, it's permeable. >> Yeah. Developable land, potentially developable, undevelopable. Developable. >> Okay. 310. Storage warehouses and distribution facilities, tanks holding
fuel or retail for retail distribution. So I put that as a one. 317. Storage warehouses distribution farm buildings or barn silos, utility sheds, etc. One
>> one I gave one. >> I mean, they could have a lot of buildings on there, but >> yeah, >> that means you'd have to go out and assess that for signal individually. >> Yeah, >> let's get to one. >> My feeling if it's a farm, it's it's for the greater good. >> Um, I'd like to be kind to the farmers.
That's my opinion. Uh, retail trade, >> eating and drinking establishments, one. >> Yeah. auto repair facilities. One >> those are 332s. >> Yeah. >> So, but it's an example they've been looking at.
>> Hold on. Now we're getting into businesses and things that could be big. >> They did look at some of these. >> Okay. But they looked at 400 plus some pro maybe 420 propertiesish. So, a lot of these have like like for example this
a lot of these have like like 32 properties in 109, right? Um actually 106 and um I'm sure Weston Samson look like three of them, maybe two of them. >> So, >> but for the rest of them, you got to give them something. So, this is the
baseline. >> Are some like I see you have 106 here and then we have 1060 which is the same thing. >> Yes. Um, is that just because it's listed in some as 106 and some as 1060? >> Yeah, that's exactly right.
>> Okay, that's weird. >> Yeah, I talked to the assessor about why they do it the way they do. I have no idea. >> They added a zero on >> It looks like Lunenburgg because I think 106 is like the state >> tax code normally. The state use code >> and then we added a zero.
>> Yeah, some of them actually the last number is not always zero. I don't know why. This another question coming >> because there's like no 105, but there's 106 and 1060 and 101 and 1010.
>> Well, there's 105, >> right? So, yeah, there's 1050. Oh, yeah. But that's what I'm saying. There's no 105. There's no 103, but there's a 10:30. >> I I don't know why. >> No rhyme or reason. >> Yeah.
So if we keep going retail trade auto repair gave them one. >> See, but when we get to businesses like restaurants and auto repair, you're you're talking parking lots, you're talking higher erus. >> Weston Samson needs to review those and give us. So it's very possible. This is
the best thing. So you probably have two dozen 310s, but Samson just picked up cherry picked them and says, "Let's look at these worst cases." >> So there should be some 310s that they assessed. Matter of fact, I have their spreadsheet right here. Let's see how many 310s there are. Um 310. What's the
use code? >> Is this fun, by the way? >> I know Bill wants to go home and eat dinner. >> I already >> He just wants to go home. >> Okay. Three T. >> I have How many 310 do I have? Not that
many. Yeah, it doesn't. I wouldn't expect so. >> Okay. How many three tens have I got? Oh, one. >> Okay. >> Tyler Gushlaw, it's 165. Massav. Maybe we shouldn't get wrapped around the excellent.
>> No, I'm thinking more the when we get into retail, the restaurants, the automotive, you know, car lots, big paved areas. So this is basically what we're going to give them if Weston Samson didn't assess their property. >> Yeah. >> So they're going to get So first thing
the spreadsheet the first thing program does says oh you're a 310 so you're going to get one. Then it goes to the Weston Samson says so did you assess it? If they did then we assign the ERUS based on their perial area. >> Yeah. >> So it superseds or overrides this.
So, well, because they only did 420 properties and we got 10 times that many in our town more. >> So, we asked them to assess all the properties. >> We don't want We don't have >> Yeah, I I think they did a good job
because the pie charts matched up. >> Yeah, >> I think they I think they did a I think they did a good job. So, if they did some of these in these use codes, could we take just the average in imperous area and apply it to the others that they didn't assess with that use code? >> Um,
like what's the variable? >> We could, but if you're on the low end, if there's one guy that biases the distribution, it's not fair for the guy on the lower end. And there all there's a distribution for all these guys, right? >> I guess. Well, it depends on the spread
of the ones that they already assessed. Did they happen to catch that spread? And then we can just take the median value or something. >> I'm in the frame of mind where we should do a sanity check to make sure they got all the heavy-hitting impermeable area properties in town. >> Yeah, >> because the spreadsheet showed that a
lot of the impermeable area properties they assessed came in at under one eru. Remember last time we were here, we kind of looked at some of the properties and there were residents that a lot of >> ERUs. Yeah. So, I don't know why they did that. Maybe they ran out of properties and they wanted to meet their
400 plus quota that they promised us and they complimented it with stuff that was I don't know. We'd have to ask juries. Yeah, cuz I think some of these non-residential ones should be a little higher than one. I have a feeling.
And it doesn't have to jump to two. It could be it could be one and a half. You know what I mean? We could do whatever we some fraction. >> Then when Bill gets his guy, he should go with us. >> Not getting a guy. >> He's not getting a guy now.
>> Oh. >> Yeah. I was hoping to get a guy. >> I was hoping to get a guy, too. was hoping for a lot. >> So, um, >> so what do you want to do? You want to keep going? You want to just kind of hash out a couple and just kind of, you
know, just digest it and maybe everybody can take this home and decide what they would like to do or we can get together again next month. There's about um there's a hundred of these >> hundred of which ones.
>> If you scroll down, you can see how many there are. Some of them are really easy to fill in and others are like, well, what do you do? >> So, where do you see the total? I see the use code and then the eru and then
>> do you have the number of properties for each? I do. It's in the It's in the uh PowerPoint that Bill was uh >> Oh, but not in this not >> right. I can actually show it to you. He's He would have to go back to the spreadsheet. I don't know if I want to torture him.
>> Um >> I mean, now that we've shared, you can it can be emailed to everybody now that we've presented it. >> I was Okay. All right. I'll email this out to the team after Yeah. to when I get home tonight. Or actually, Bill can just forward it to
everybody. And are we going sol? >> Oh yeah, right there. >> So what was your question now >> for like Okay, so I think you said there's like 32 of the 106es. >> How much of the 109? You know, how many of these do we have to actually manually
sanity check? So that's what that's the gross one. There's another one that's got that split and defined. >> That's it, right? The number of properties in each use code. So all 300s, there's like two dozen 300 family
use codes. And there's anywhere from like like one to like maybe 15 each of those categories. So they're all in that spreadsheet. >> Your spreadsheet. >> Yeah, the one that we're just reviewing. Yeah.
>> So you can look at them individually to see what they are. >> And they're on and Samson's >> report of impervious area. >> You need a guy. >> That's a lot of chicken. >> Yeah. on top of that.
>> So this is this is a good place to start. So I I like the system. So this is the this is the pl this is the baseline and then we go out and say well who really doesn't fit the baseline because they've got such a big parking lot or other. Then we go okay let's
figure out exactly how much improvement we already have. Then you override the baseline or the default with what you assess. And we do have 400 plus assessed properties. So I think it comes to like did they miss anybody big
that's my mindset and I don't know we have that's a lot of work. >> So we have 400 with impervious area across different use codes. >> Yep. >> Can you go back? I think there's another
one that really shows you exactly. Go back. Keep going back. I'll tell you where to stop. Oh, go back down >> the other way. >> Yeah, that's it. So, don't go back down. Sorry. That's it. I had another chart
that didn't round it to one. So, if the improvable area was less than one, um, erus was less than one, I'd said, but you're going to get one. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And there was a distribution there. You can see how it was distributed, all the properties that
they had assessed. And a lot of them were coming in like 50 square feet. And then it was kind of like a distribution that ramped up if you sorted it. And it wasn't until you got past like 100 properties that all of a sudden you started to poke those up above the one ERU.
So I don't know how they chose those properties. Um, I like to think on the high end they got all the all the heavy hitters, but on the low end you can through they threw a whole bunch of other just to complement what they had >> or maybe trying to capture some of the ones that CI didn't get like that were
missing because it was 10 years old 10-year-old data. >> Yeah, maybe. >> So, when Jerice was around, we could ask her exactly what the process was that they the selection process they use to choose those properties. So, where do you want to go from here?
>> Good question. I think if we're going to do the well, continue with the eru approach. I think we need to check. We could maybe split up use codes and people check them
and come with a recommendation for that group. >> All right. Do you want to forward both of those documents to everybody? >> Yeah. >> And then everyone has a homework assignment. >> They should go through the mass use code text file that Bill's going to send back
and edit that field that basically assigns the number of erus to the property types. and I'll compare them all and basically that'll be everybody's vote. I mean, I can do that. So, I think everybody's going to agree
on 101, which is a single family resident should get one. Two family gets two, three family gets. >> Now, that gets tricky with the two family. Do they get Cuz some are single owner owns two and rents out both and they get one. the owner gets the property tax
bill versus it's really two >> it's a townhouse duplex and two two separate >> owners and two property >> and we're getting a lot more of those in town >> just as a quick heads up I can only uh be on here for another five minutes or
so um I think there's still three of you here so you can continue the meeting uh without me if need be I Yeah, that's a quantum. So typically don't those it's one's like
you know 100 the other one's 100 A or 100 A 100B >> I don't know but they get separate I think they get separate tax bills or separate mortgages they're separate owners >> we lived on 25 Williams drive and we divided into condexes and it became 2527
each one gets it a separate tax bill >> so it's right it's a duplex but they get two separate property tax bills two families so kind of makes sense too. >> So, not all duplexes or multifamilies are the same.
>> Some of them have a single owner and get one tax bill. Now, the the landlord can decide to split that to the two rents, right? Or whatever. >> Yeah. >> As opposed to But I think the point being tying it to the tax bill, >> but you it's
like I'm just thinking about 7-Eleven Massav. There's like four >> those new ones. >> Four duplexes. Yeah. >> What are those addresses? And what are the property codes on those? >> Yeah. >> So, I think those are 7-Eleven Massav,
right? Is that the one that has the four that you're talking about? >> Yeah. >> What's the property code on those? >> So, those are two. So, they they each have a unit number. 7-Eleven Massav 87654.
Okay. >> Can you see the the use code? >> I don't think Are they separate? >> Trying to get the >> use code 1020. >> That's condo.
So >> yeah, they're they're 1020s. So if they have >> you know what I did for 1020s, I gave them all one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz they're all going to get separate tax bills, right? >> Exactly. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I'm a 1020. >> I mean, >> no, I get one and I have a house. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> but like uh ar uh arrive arrive I was going to say arise arrive
>> each unit gets >> arrive >> each unit in there gets one >> all 150 units the way it is now I believe are going to get a tax >> the same 7882 >> no arrive is um it's bu it's separated
by building but it's all the same owner it's all carousel whatever >> yeah Um, >> yeah, but each of those condos has a separate line item in the assessor spreadsheet. So, they all go tax bills. >> I thought it was each building >> in the assessor spreadsheet. >> If you look at one carousel lane in the
assessor spreadsheet, every single one of those properties has a a line, an entry. >> So, there's under one carousel lane, there's multiple entries because one carousel lane is the entire building >> and then three carousel lane is another building. >> Yeah. They can't get They're renters.
They can't get a tax bill. >> Yeah. So, it's going >> looking at 16 carousel lane. Building number one, it's a 1020. >> Yeah, they're all 1020. All carousel lanes 1020. >> Yeah, because they're all I mean, even though they're not their apartments, I
guess functionally if they're still condos, maybe. Or because they're all different buildings on the same property, they're considered condos. Who knows? >> There's a lot of carousel. Yeah. But >> yeah. >> Yeah. Every every CP5 Emerald Place LLC.
Yeah. There's like 150 of them and they all got a they all got a tax they all got a storm water bill. >> Yeah. But Carousel Lane has way more than 150 >> uh dwellings in it. >> Really?
>> Yeah. Like in one building there could be, you know, 50 units, >> right? So, there's a couple that have like when you get to the the ones that are kind of offset by themselves, those each only have like four in one building, I think. And I think well,
yeah, maybe eight per building for three. So, that's like 24 right there. But then there's some buildings that are strictly apartments. So, there's like, you know, like said 50 probably in one of those buildings, if not more. >> And then there's other ones like there's some that have their own doors. There's
some that are actually like straight up apartment buildings. So there's going to be significantly more than 150 dwellings. Really? It's huge. >> All right. That one those like big complexes like that, even though they're
1020, they probably need to be teased out a bit more cuz if there's 50 people in there paying the same as a single family home. >> Yeah. I think I was looking at the property >> bigger
>> data on GIS and it looks like cuz remember I was like wait a second why is it why why is it valued so low but they were valued at like 750,000 for some of them and then I realized then we I think we talked about it during the meeting that it's um because
they are each building is its own bill but each building has tons of stuff in it. So if you look at like one carousel, >> one carousel may be an exception. It has a different use code. >> It's 34.
>> I think that's the office maybe. >> Um, >> so you're saying each of these carousel lanes, they're they're use code says condo, but really they're buildings with individual units in them. >> Oh, yeah. So if you look at it, are you
guys looking at the GIS map right now? >> Yeah. >> So those buildings in the in the front, >> those probably have 50 units each on their own. So those four buildings right there in the on the electric a side. >> Yeah.
>> And then the ones like in front of Prospect Street, I think those have eight each. So that's another 16 right there. Some of them have garages and stuff, but the ones in the front are just regular apartment buildings. >> They're only assessed to like 180 and
$200,000. That doesn't seem like a lot to me for a big building. >> I think that um that is let's see 176. So 550 for one carousel lane
and then let's see 55 carousel lane. I looked all together it was when we looked at their um tax bill and it added it all up it was a pretty big amount. All right so this one
51 Carousel Lane is the other side of the property or 55 49. That's three. 23. It's a big development. Yeah, it looks like each of these, like
if you're in the the middle section, it's saying each building is worth around 250. But when you add that all up, I think it's probably going to end up being, you know, we have 1 2 3 4. So
that's a million. 1 2 3 4 2 1 2 3 4 3 1 2 I mean, you're you're over 10 million for the whole property if you add up each of these buildings. Cuz when you look at like one that's 250, it's one of those small
buildings in the middle. >> Those are unique. Those I think need to be. >> Were you trying to say one eru may not be enough? >> I think about an address. Yeah, >> that has there's only 35 buildings there, but there's 155 line item entries
in the uh spreadsheet. >> So, we should in my opinion bill that like we build their taxes, which is everything goes to like the emerald estates or whatever it is. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then it's considered a business and then base it off of whatever the EU
is. >> If you What's What's the address for one of those big buildings along Electric AB? >> I'm looking that up right now. Let's see. Does it show? Okay. 40.
>> So, those are 40. The only one that I can get to pop in is 40. Let's see. 40. >> I don't see a 40 on the assessor sheet. >> Oh, yeah. 40 101 40102.
>> Oh, okay. Hold on. 101. Yeah, that's a 1020. >> It's 186,000 is the building value. There's no land value. >> Those buildings are huge compared to any single family building.
>> So it might be let's see how many 40. So we have 40101 4102 4103 4104 and 4105. So I wonder if each of those peaks is consider considered its own entity
like the building is split up into five parcels. >> I don't know >> cuz there's definitely more than five parcels in one of those buildings. Those are three floors. Oh, >> maybe four.
Let me do a street view. >> Actually, is that what that is that what that means? The floor. It's address 40. First floor unit 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Did you get up to eight?
>> Well, I'm looking at the assessor's heat. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> cuz I didn't get up to It looked like it stopped at 105. Oh, here we go. 40 106. >> Yep. And it goes up to eight and 42 goes
up to eight. 43 goes up to eight. >> Okay. So, it must be >> Yeah. >> setting it off into portions of the building. >> Yes. And address 48 has three floors, looks like. >> Yeah. >> And 56.
So there's how many big buildings? >> There's four big buildings. >> There might be more based on this. >> Oh, there's five actually. >> 32. >> Interesting. >> 40
48 56. That's it. Five big buildings. That's it, >> right? You said there's five. >> Yeah, there's five build. There's five big buildings. And then >> they each have three floors. And it looks like something about eight per
floor. Only eight units per floor. >> Looks like Yeah, there's probably eight per floor. >> So there's four in every one of those buildings. >> You're kidding me. >> No. >> Yeah. Yeah. I actually have a street view open
>> right across from See? Yeah, >> that's 20 units just in the four big buildings. >> So, yeah, 24 * 5. >> Oh, and the bottom floor is parking. It looks like for each one. >> I You know, I'm too tired.
>> That's a That's 120. >> Yeah. Per building. No, total. >> Wait, no. >> 24 per building. 120 total. Okay. >> That's five buildings. >> Yeah. >> 120. >> Yeah. See?
>> So each one of those, there's eight per floor. Wow. Times three. >> Yeah. >> So they're not like multiple floors. >> If you look at a street view, you can you can get a >> I So I live across from these, so I could if I look at my window right now,
I can see them. Um, so I have them memorized. But yeah, if you look at a street view, you can see how big they are. Just those buildings alone. There's 20. >> So I don't know what's being assessed
then. >> So one ERU is going to be divided up amongst 24 people. That's not much. That's $3 ahead. >> Yeah. But that's all every bill is going to go to what? CPS Emerald Place.
>> They're all they're all ending up going to the same, you know, property owner. >> There's no carousel lanes here. There's 150 of them >> because there's other So there's the 120. >> Yeah. >> That we just calculated or just figured out. And then there's the the smaller
ones. There's smaller buildings and then there's like >> are some single family or does it go down the smallest? >> The ones that are off by themselves in front of the the lake, you know, talking about they're kind of across the street.
>> Those ones only have four >> per building. four. >> It looks like there's four per building and there's two buildings. I think from what I can tell when I look at them, when I drive by them every day, um >> I've got to tell you based on everything you told me, I'm looking at 56101
Carousel Lane. >> Yeah. >> Through 56108. There's eight units there, right? Yeah. >> Eight line items spread. So I propose you that one of the big buildings is 56100 >> and the 100 I think is the first floor. Then is 56201 through 208. Yes.
>> Second floor units. Every unit here is represented in the accessory spreadsheet. >> I see every >> for those five buildings, >> right? >> Okay. I'll go along with that. I'm not positive, but I'll go along with it. >> No, I think I think you're right. For
those five buildings, all 2020 are represent. >> So, you're saying that the other buildings that have four units, >> they are individual. All right. So, each of those units would get a $78 storm water fee.
>> That makes sense to me. >> Makes sense to me, too. They're going to hate it. It >> is what it is. The size of the place. >> Yeah. So, I don't I don't understand the other buildings. I understand the big ones now. And you're right. Each unit has a
line. >> Yeah. I don't understand the other ones, but I have to look up the addresses because there are other multiple unit buildings. >> Did Weston and Samson look at these properties? >> I haven't looked at their spreadsheet since the last meeting.
>> Um, I don't know. Um, actually, I have the spreadsheet here. Want to open up and look carousel, right? So, I have to do lane. Okay. Fine. This is going to be tricky. Find every carousel reference.
There's one line item carousel lane. One carousel lane. That's all they did. They did not do the individual movements. And one carousel must be like the main office or something. But I think that's what you said.
>> Yeah. I think one carousel only is the office. >> Okay, good. >> Yeah, they did not do that property. They did not. >> Well, they have it as 458,000 square feet.
>> Oh, one carousel lane. >> Yeah. >> Oh, let me do that again. >> So, it must be the whole thing. So now that you now that I now that you said that all
>> Yeah. >> What are you seeing for taxes on this? Does does one big tax bill go to one carousel lane? >> No. Um 155 tax bills go out. >> Okay. >> All the individual units get their own
tax bill. 458661 458661 / 4200 that's 109 erus that's if there's really 155 units there
that's pretty close to one eru per unit >> that's not too far off at least two/3 of one more than on average >> a case like this would it be easy that they did Weston
and Samson did one um they they counted this as one parcel right and put ERUS on it >> what were they came up with >> 110 >> okay >> 192 205 >> would it make sense I mean I don't know
if we'd want to talk to the property owner just to count it as one parcel because it has one owner and just send it Yeah. one bill. >> I would be okay with that >> because do we really want to print outund
something bills? >> No, we don't. >> No, >> that would be a nice and 109 times 78.82 $8,600. That's not That's not chump change. Yeah, >> I feel like that should be that's a So,
they came up with 110. Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if we were to just call it even I think they'd be making out with us calling it 110. It seems like 110 is I guess that we did it with the the drone. So, that must be right. >> Yeah.
>> Did they do it with the drone? >> That's how they That's typically how they do it, I think. >> Okay. Unless somebody already has a map ready and then they'll go in with their software and and map it out. >> I know that's something that we're
always debating whether to do it by the total area or do it individual units. And this is the lesser of the two. So it kind of is actually appealing to the owner of that property. >> Yeah. And I can't imagine they want to pay 70 and something different bills.
>> Yeah. >> I'm guessing they'd prefer >> Yep. to pay one bill and we prefer to send them one bill. >> Yep. I agree. >> And it's the lesser of the two charges. >> Right.
They just I don't know if anybody's interested, but they did unit 220,000 square feet. Yep. >> 52 ERUs. >> Three units of >> Yeah. $4,000.
>> Doesn't that seem low? There's a lot of >> We're going to end up paying it anyway. They're going to roll into our 10 utility bill. Okay. So, look at your sheet, go through some of the classes and
adjust if it you think it shouldn't be one RU EU or whatever. >> Um try to match it up with Weston and Samson. >> So, you want me to change carousel lean so that all all those properties so that it's based on the erus for the total
property? I do. >> I think so. >> Okay, I can do that. >> It's kind of the same thing, right? I mean, they should get one bill. Yeah, >> they should get one belt. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, basically, what I'll have to do is change the program and basically identify all the carousel link
properties and if it's carouseling property, um, give them a zero except for one carousel lane or whatever >> the office. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And then they'll it'll be based on that one line item in the um what what's the address they gave it?
Oh, I can't remember. I just had it up here. CP. Oh, there it is. >> Yeah. >> One carousel lane. >> One. >> Boo. Okay. >> Yeah. So, the same thing. >> Yeah. >> With the Rogers Wayade, right? The apartments on >> Yes. Okay. Okay. Yep.
>> Yep. >> Yep. So, are there any other condominium developments besides >> I did kind of go through >> Well, Woodlands is the same. It's listed as 208 Northfield. >> No, I'm there.
>> You are? >> Look me. Well, on the assessor sheet. >> Well, this is West and Simses. >> Oh, how did they do 208 field? Oh, that
doesn't help. These are reading. >> Is that one big property? It's considered. >> Yeah. So how many EUs do they come up with there? >> But the biggest unit we have I think biggest building has two units and
everybody gets tax bill. They're own they're not rent. >> Yeah. So is it >> to own? >> They're all 1020 use codes just like Flat Hill Village. Same thing. So, but did um did Weston and Samson
look at it as one big parcel and give it erus? >> Is that what I'm hearing? >> That's what it looks like. >> So, okay. So, Bill brought up. Would you say Rogers Way? >> Yep. >> Oh my god, look at them all.
>> What's Roger's Way? >> Apartments on Wayen Road. Oh, >> and how about Stone Farm Estates? Same thing. >> There's 450. >> Yeah, there's 450
condo or 102s. 102 homes. >> Yeah. >> And from what I can tell, there's Winter Green Court. >> Yeah. >> Willow Circle. My one that's dear to my heart. Well, 25 and 27 Williams Drive. Um, Trillium
Court, Sunset Lane, Royal Fern Drive. There's at least two dozen there. >> Not Sunset. >> Rose Garden Lane. There's another 20. >> Yeah. No, that's not >> Riley Road. >> Some of these are not woodlands. These are these are mixed up. Yeah. >> Riley Road is huge. It's got a lot of
properties. >> Yeah. It's stove farm estates, condos. >> Oh, okay. So, should we apply that methodology to all these properties? No, because it see with arrive it's one owner. They're all rentals. All these other things
>> they have individual owners. >> Yes. And they get individuals get the tax bill. >> Okay. >> So the owner like here it's it's Emerald Place own is a property owner and they get the tax bill. >> Okay. So all these other properties should get one >> if they are on the assessor's list. You
can see the owner. >> Yep. To get >> they're getting a tax bill. They should just get one ERU. The exception is CP5 Emerald Place LLC. >> So far, the one that I know of. >> Yep. I I don't see any other corporations or LLC's or anything else
besides Emerald Place. Everybody else is an individual owner. That makes things easier. So far, so far this has been very few exceptions. just you know assign the use code number of your use to the use codes
and then override it with the western Samson data. Um this will be the another exception which is this um Emerald Place. Um but if I had to do more exceptions for all these other condominium complexes then that would complicate things but from
what you're telling me that's the that's the only exception and the condominium space. What do we do with the white street housing authority? >> What is that?
>> You talking about Tritown? >> No, there's apartments on White Street. >> I don't know about them. >> Is that Is that the West Samson spreadsheet or is that the >> This is Yeah. on 131 white street.
>> So obviously my way around >> you can grab the left side of it and drag it somewhere. I think >> how do I get rid of that fire? How about I stop sharing? >> Usually there's a place you can grab the
left side and drag it somewhere else. Or sometimes there's an error to collapse it. Stupid. What is the use code on that white street property? Not sure. It's here, right?
Is that like elderly housing or 131? >> Oh, it's it's the housing authority. >> Yeah. >> Um and the owner is the Lenberg Housing Authority. So, usually it could be elderly housing or >> or subsidized housing.
>> It could be like some assisted. >> It must be big. It's $4 million property, >> right? >> Did some food delivery? >> I know what it is. Are separate buildings or is it just one? Yeah, it's all separate. >> Okay. got loans.
>> If the Lunenburgg Housing Authority owns it, which is a government entity, would we just >> we would just be taxing uh >> Yeah. >> making ourselves. >> Yeah. We don't Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, that's an exception, >> I think. So, >> okay. I think there's going to be a dozen, five dozen, three dozen exceptions. >> Really? Well, we've already stumbled across two and I think I have like a
handful that I've already introduced. >> Yeah, it says it's state aided elderly housing and low-income housing. >> Think about every abatement's going to be an exception. There's going to be a another column here that's basically abatement granite
or you know there's going to be another >> Yeah, Jenny's coming for an abatement. >> She said no. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. It's going to take more of my time to do it
than it's worth. H All right. Like I have to look at this. >> But I I think we are headed towards the year versus the tier. That's my opinion. That's like the idea. >> Yeah, >> I really do. It's it's I you know I know
the other towns won't want to do it with the tears but it looks >> it's going to take more work in the beginning. I think >> the spreadsheet the computer does the work. >> Yeah. But going in like we just did, right? >> Uh yeah.
>> The the program does the first cut, right? And then it's Yes. >> And then it's fine to take a lot of fine tuning. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I get it. That's why I don't envy the assessor's roles. Looking at the spreadsheet,
there's over 5,000 properties they have to manage. They got all exactly right. People are fussy. If they get something wrong with their assessment, they like they just stole. I really don't envy. So, should should
we try is there is there a way to to chunk this up so everyone takes like a piece instead of everybody looking at everything? >> So, >> is there a way that you >> want you want to do that now or do you want to do that next time we meet? What do you want to do? >> I don't care.
>> I mean, there's only three of us left here now. >> Spread it out. >> Right. >> I don't know what Mark's schedule's like and it's kind of hard. I'll have to watch the meeting to understand what we're asking to do. I mean, the three of
us could get started on something. Yeah. >> 10 minutes timer set. >> That was Jenny. >> That was my my clock behind me. >> Was that Alexa talking to you?
>> No, that was Google. >> Oh, okay. >> We we've been Google since before Alexa came out. So, we're we're stuck with Google. >> All right. >> I I think we're in a happy place. So, in my opinion, um is is Jice gonna come to
another meeting or is she under contractors coming to another meeting or she >> we wanted to. Yeah. >> Right. Should we um go over the same thing with her next week? >> How much how many times do we have left
with her? >> Yeah, >> not many. because I wanna I think we should save some stuff for closer to when we're ready to >> start doing info sessions and >> I don't disagree >> and we may need them to look at some properties, >> right?
>> We may find by going through this identify some that we want them to take a look at. >> So I know what to do with um Emerald Place and >> I know what to do with the Lunar Housing Authority. Are there any other? >> Probably. But
>> all right. So maybe we should all go through here and try to identify properties that would be exceptions >> and uh also if Bill forwards both of the attachments. Um go through the use codes
and look at the erus that I assigned to all those property types and if you have any grievances or dis or uh differences of opinion, let me know. Okay? and I'll modify this and next time we can hash out those inline items. >> Yeah. So we can tell you individually
>> rather than going through like almost 100, you know, here which is going to be so painful it's >> So can we chunk up the use codes somewhat? >> Um they don't they go pretty quick. So like the municipal codes um
>> just tell me what I need to do. go go through the mass use codes and look at the erus that I assigned and if you disagree >> um flag it and then reply and basically say this is my this is how I would change it. >> But yeah, I'm saying should we all go through all the use codes or or just
okay you take these use codes, you take those use codes. >> There's not that many and some of them are so obvious. For example, all the 500 and 600 and 700s >> they're all zero. Um yeah, we don't have any 500s. All the 600s are forest lands.
>> Yeah. >> Um so they're zero. All the 700s are all zero. They're all productive land. Um like agricultural. Um recreational. All the 800s are all zero. >> There's a lot in the 300s. >> Yeah. So that's where everybody has to
focus their attention. I put zero for all the municipal and county codes. Does that make sense or am I wrong? I didn't know what to do there. >> Commonwealth. These are all the municipal and and county properties. Commonwealth of Massachusetts reimburseable land, non-reimburseable
land, division of fish and game. Do we do that? Do we charge them or no? So if it was a municipality, I said nope. Um we did hit the exempts some of the religious groups we had. Um
>> wait, yeah, we are hitting exempts, right? >> The religious Yeah. for like the uh the churches. There's like there's like seven properties that are associated with a religious group. There's rectories and there's the church buildings and there's even a Methodist
house which is on the one that Flemister Road just north of the St. Thomas Center on the right just past the Teen Youth Center. I have no clue what it all I know is the Methodist Church owns it and they're exempt. >> So, they're going to get an ERU because it's a house,
right? I think uh St. Bonafice, is that what it is? I think they have three properties. >> St. Bonafice has big parking lots. They have a couple of buildings. >> So there's a big one. There's a rectory and I think there's something >> they have three buildings, I think. Yeah. >> Um so if everybody disagrees with those,
let me know. But it does go fairly quick. Um some of them you're just going to have to chew on a little bit and then you decide, you know, what you think the right thing to do is. All the manufacturing processing is all one. um outdoor recreational golf. >> I think some of those shouldn't be one
that >> but they're going to get overwritten with >> Well, that's the thing of matching them up and finding those gaps with the West and Samson saying, "We need you to go back and look at these." That's what's going to take the time. That's why I'm Yeah. >> Yeah.
So, I'm in the frame of mind if we can identify those properties that they should have assessed that they didn't. Um but I don't know how to do that. Someone just has to go through a all the properties in town and see if it's on their list, which gives me so
time consuming. It's ridiculous. >> You have a spare time. >> Spare time. No, if you had a guy, he'd have some time. >> You need a guy. I was so looking forward to getting a guy. >> Me, too. >> Then then that $460,000 would have come
down to like 360 or something like that. And then everybody's just storm water assessment would have come down to like 60 bucks and people would say, "Okay, I can handle that." So now once we get the erus we do need to do that comparison
the budget if it's in the operating and if it's the utility what that looks like for the resident because if it's in the operating budget it goes up every year right it's part of the the 2 and a.5% increase so that's the other thing
that's going to come into play >> because I think we have to present both to the public at ideally the special the fall special town meeting and say, "Okay, this is what it would look like an operating budget, pros and cons. This is what it looks like as a utility, pros
and cons. Decide. We can recommend, but the town has to decide >> and I really hope we can be ready by then, right? What's the chance of getting it in the operating budget next year?
>> I have no clue. >> Yeah. >> Kick the can down the road. >> Same chance as getting utility. >> I mean, here you got two choices, A and B. >> If they say no. And also, will when will
the new permit have you heard anything about the new permit coming out? That would be a good question if to ask Theres if she has heard anything. >> Yeah. Because if that gonna increase cost >> Yeah. >> I doubt it's going to decrease.
>> No. No. It's going to be more requirements. >> Yeah. >> So, is is there a town person that can respond to questions about the uh assessment? I want to make sure I got the latest spreadsheet. I want to try and reconcile while >> there is an assistant in the assessor's
office. >> Who's that? I don't remember. >> It's not Brian Leontes. >> No, he's on the board. Brian is >> being on the board and being >> board of assessors are elected. >> Yep. >> Town volunteers and then if you're in
they're employees. They're professionally. >> Principal assessor is a whatever. >> They do the same thing. Just one gets paid, the other one doesn't. >> No. No. They have different responsibilities. Looks like the administrative assistant
is Robin Nano. >> That sounds right. >> And there's Oh, there's also Lydia Katka. >> No, that's who she resigned. Yeah. >> Okay, that's who that was. Yeah. >> Yeah. The principal assessors will be
gone. I forget her last day. >> So, what is I didn't bring any paper with me. Who? What's the person's name as the assistant assessor? So there's the administrative assessing assistant is Robin Nano. >> Robin Nano.
>> Yeah. Like nano particle n >> Robin Nano. Okay. >> And then there's also data collector Denise McHugh >> and they each have their own extension. They're both listed on the uh assessor's
website. >> Okay. All right. So, either one of them would be a good candidate to in place of >> if they're not the right one that I mean, >> yeah. >> I don't know what the >> I sent Linda an email said, "Hey, I want to meet with you." She offered. I says, "I'm going to take up your offer." I
never heard back from her. I don't know if she's still on leave, actually. >> Yeah. >> And she's resigned, so she's not she's on her way out. I mean, Brian and Sarah can, but Sarah works full-time. Brian, I don't know how
busy he is. So, all right. So, everybody's going to review this and if they have any opinions that differ from what I had, then you send them out to me. I'm going to do it next time or you can just email it to me.
right away and more the more this is polished I think the more respectable it'll be when we present it to people. >> So the goal is to go over this next month. >> Yeah. >> Excuse me. >> So what is it? You want to plan our next meeting? Doesn't matter to me. I'm not going
away. We're getting into vacation season. >> I don't even know what I have happening. That's it. >> Oh, I do have a wedding to go to. Uh, but that's July. Okay. Um, the third
Thursday would be June 18th. >> I know I'm going to be in Albuquerque the 27th through the 17th. So, I believe I could do the 18th. Or would you rather do the 25th? You're
coming back the 17th of June. >> Yeah, 25th might be better. >> Yeah. >> A chance to like organize all this >> if we get stuff back to you like the week before. Yeah. >> You won't have time to No. >> Yeah. So, June 25th. >> Yeah. June 25th.
>> I think that should work for me. >> I can't find my phone to look at my calendar. >> Okay. >> That probably won't work for me, but I have to check. >> Is there another It doesn't have to be a Thursday. >> Yeah. Any Monday through Monday through Friday is fine with me. >> Um
>> Monday is the best night for me. >> Yeah. The only person who has an issue with Mondays would be Tim Planning Board. I don't know how often they meet. Um that Monday
22nd or 29th. >> Uh 22nd. We do that. >> I don't know if Tim can make it. >> Jenny, 22nd of June. It's a Monday. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's fine. >> Okay.
>> I don't think I have anything happening that week. >> Okay. Um, let me see. They meet second and fourth Monday of each month is their regular schedule. So, Oh, that's the fourth Monday.
>> 29th. >> That didn't work. That works. >> That's the week leading up to the 4th of July. >> Yeah. >> Unless I don't know if they'll go on to like a summer schedule where they won't have a meeting. I don't know. 29th
night. I'm I know that week I'm taking some time off, but probably towards the end of the week. I probably >> I can do I can do either. I mean, because I I' like to propose a
reord the group too. >> This group? >> Yeah. >> Good. >> Coming up to we just had elections. All the committees are doing their assignments over. >> Would you replace me?
>> No. >> No. >> Sarah, face me. >> No. The No, but we're doing all the, you know, the chair assignments, liaison, all the representatives all over again. So, we
haven't done it since I've been on here. We probably should think talk about it. Yeah. >> Um, so it'd be good, my point is it'd be good to have everyone available. >> So if Tim can't make it on the 22nd,
that's not good. >> Do we do the 29th? >> I can't do Tuesday. Jenny can't do Wednesdays. I can do the 20. Well, I can do the week of the 29th on a Wednesday because that's a off week for us. >> Okay.
It's 20. How often do you meet? >> We meet the first and third Wednesday. >> So, can you do the 24th of June? That's the fourth. There's four Wednesdays. >> Yeah, I can do the 24th. >> How about that?
>> Oh, wait. Maybe you can't do it. Can you do it? Sure. I think I get that. >> I can do any night but Tuesday. So, >> I didn't put all my time off in my
calendar yet. So, see if there's anything else pop up. Looks like it's open at the moment. >> Should we plan on the 24th and then let us know if that doesn't work and the fall back could be the 29th? Okay.
Sound good? >> Sounds good to me. >> Jenny, that good for you? >> That works for me. >> Okay, then we'll have to check with Mark and 10th or I don't know. Planning board's going to do all their reassignments. Who knows if he'll still
want to be rep. Um, okay. Do we have minutes? I think we have minutes. I didn't put it on the >> Oh, okay. And are you gonna send out all the stuff that you had,
>> Tom? Okay. >> I forwarded it to Bill so he can resume it and present it. So, both of them to everybody. >> Okay. >> And edit that one mass use code document and let me know if you have any differences of opinion. I'll pull
through them. Sounds good. All right. >> Motion to adjurnn at the second two. >> Second. >> Oh, we got a roll call. Huh? >> Jenny, aren't you vice chair? >> Yes. Roll.
>> Roll call. >> John Beiel. >> Uh, I'm I agree. Implicit. >> Okay. Renee Mi. >> Do we do we do Bill in the roll call? I forget. >> No. No. >> It doesn't get a vote. He just gets tortured.
>> Yeah. >> All right. I for myself. Meeting adjourned. >> Great. >> Thanks, Jenny. >> All right. Thanks. Have a good night. You too. Right. See y'all in the morning. >> Yeah. Soap.