##VIDEO ID:Kp6RANXCU5E## okay you good yeah we up all right good evening ladies and gentlemen from the lunar water district this is the commissioner's meeting November 13th 2024 let us stand and stop by saying Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to repblic for which it stands God indivisible with liy and justice for all start by Rie and signing once okay my I did an extra we only got one meeting next month and um also pass around some minutes to re Mr sure um while uh we peruse these uh we can talk about the massav water main replacement project how we doing on that it it's pretty much wrapped up a little bit more Paving to do and some temporary lines to pick up but only only a couple of them uh and then that's going to be it till till Springtime and then we're going to do you know more L and Seed more cleanup kind of stuff Y and um I submitted a request to mass doot to uh remove the requirement of Paving the sections because of if you did cross trenches and there were so many distance so many feet between themselves that you'd have to pave that whole area so we did a lot of pulling and mulling to to to limit that so I I did a request to uh see if they can back off the requirement of Paving doing the mill and pave for the bigas so I asked if we could just do a permanent trench patch so I haven't heard back but uh that'll be in the spring anyway is that was MDR planning on doing that would would that save us money it would well it I'm not really the budget that was presented and bid did not include the paving so Paving would be an extra okay so it it yes it would save us money in the end uh you know a lot of things did save us money where a lot of the road work was done off the road where the plan was in the road so it it was much cheaper it's going to be cheaper to BL and Seed than it would be to do permanent train so so uh I think in the end I think financially we're looking looking okay but Paving was part of the budget for the overall project right I saw them I saw them Paving like a mother hub St yeah that looks good yeah so the paving the temporary patch and the permanent patch was part of the budget not milling and Paving the whole intersection like say at the school in arber Street and then they had uh here in Northfield Road and then another area in the Middle where just there was so many services Crossing and that they wanted you know to to pay that to eliminate those trenches so uh see if we can get out of it I mean one of them we only have this tiny little patch in the middle of the road yeah the repairs seemed good yeah some a little Tad high but let see if they settle down yeah well there's always been that bump going on that towns and H road yeah yeah well we had you know can you fix that and like well we're going to match the old hot top to the right no so we we can't we'd end up redoing the whole intersection and that shouldn't be on us kind of of us I even saw Northfield Road well they needed that Riser yeah yeah that looks really good how how they did that well we got lucky that we didn't hit that manhole the SE man hole just doing the water we got lucky of what we did it was it was right there they didn't many records of that section they that's not that old yeah no no but another department yep so so to follow up with it we met with UniBank they came here last week um to talk about the next step so we've been doing all the temporary borrowing so I printed out all the options so our temporary borrowing comes due um February February 6th so we have two two main options because they have to come back in the springtime to finalize the paving and a few things we can go for another round one more round of temporary borrowing in February that would be four months five months so it come due July and then in July we would get the full Bond right or if we know roughly what that number is so we've been talking to MDR they're going to try to work it out where they can sit there you know we can say all right we're done as of November sure whatever here's our number here's a budgeted number for the spring MH and we could go out to bond with that number so the two options you guys have right now is do we want to do another temporary round or do we want to go for the bond and then to follow up with that when we do go for the bond do we want to go 20 years or the max we can do is 27 years so all of these sheets that I just gave you they're broken down so there two of them there's one that shows if you go from the temporary umun run the temporary financing until July and then a 20-year Bond and then 20-year Bond you're looking at a total payment over the 20 years of 3,447 M so I also put numbers on here too so you can see if we did a final for this is what customers would pay per quarter M 15 so we budgeted the 25 not not knowing what our our number was going to be this is for 20 the 153 yes so that's so that's regardless if you guys so there's ultimately two decisions you guys need to make do we want to do another round of temporary borrowing so then by the time we do go for the bond we have the absolute final number this is exactly what the project cost or we can go for the bond now see that the thing I know it's tough because it seems like we've got time but if we want to go for the bond we have to start this process now because you have to get a rating and that takes a month or two to go through right no I understand why why does it okay why does it look like the final bond is more money in the end than the temporary Bond and then then get the final amount and go for the you so I got this temporary to July then bond for 20 years Y and that this down here this balance is 34 three three 4477 y y where over here it just says final bond for 20 years and this one's more money yeah see what I'm saying so that's 3461 um I assume it's Ty in the interest from the yes temporary B so you're looking at 22751 so your yes your interest is more that's why because you went 2026 final Bond temporary to July so they're projecting right now if we went for the bond yeah and did a 20-year loan they're they're guessing the rate right now is 3.60 for the final so go up I should have highlight yeah I mean the other one's at 3.54 and I'm assuming that's like an adjustable so if you look down to like if you look under the interest column 2045 your interest on the one of the few top payments it goes from 58 to 96 if you did the temporary final bond in February for 20 years so that would be your the third year a big the higher payment the high interest payment so that's why that's what made me say it was the temporary B we're paying the interest on the temporary yeah why is that third year so high yeah going from 123 to 115 actually both even yeah both of them do in 2026 so would that be 71 25 26 I mean they're basically grabbing all their interest up front yeah which a lot of them do I notice we do a lot when when we're when we're in that if you're looking at the first attempt to July then Bond 20 years uh the 2026 payment when we're at that 28,0 517 is that covered by the 1539 a quarter is that going to cover so like what he's looking at is right here on um you know like when we have that when we have that huge payment in 26 whether it be whichever one it is cuz they seem is that 1539 quar cover Us in that that you know cuz the rest of these seem pretty consistent Yeah so basically I took we're going to have some cushion right now cuz we $25 so and that pulled in so basically at $25 per connection or per service per unit um we pull in around $70,000 per quarter which is $280,000 a year but we don't need all that so we can we'll have some we're yeah so we're looking ahead at those so what I did what we did was take that full amount the 3,447 divided by whether it's 20 years 27 years whatever that number was and I figured out instead of the 25500 customers it's closer to 2800 M um because there's multi-unit um divided by the four quarters and that's how we came up with this so I mean if you go for the 20 years or 27 years it's only a $2 difference to the residents but it's a big you know $600,000 difference in loan payments yeah uh but I I'm not quite sure why I may have to ask them about that why when you're looking at if we go to bond in February I can I can see I can tell you why it's because there a difference in those interest rates fig right now's half lower than the other one I think that we need to definitely get you know hard real answers on these numbers well that's you guys decide what you do I can't get hard numbers I it is it is it is my favor to do to try to figure out this now with the extras that MDR will have and and figure it in so we don't have to go to Temporary again okay that would just be my feeling I'm one or three here um and I like the 20 years better than the 27 years and I also think that maybe what we should try to do just trying here that instead of having that blanket $25 can we really kind of figure it out and maybe make it you know like so if we did like you said the $25 comes out to 280,000 a year yeah roughly well in year 10 we only need 606 ,000 um I I just is there a better way to no you're looking at the interest is 66,000 our total payments are the far right so they maintain around 160 every year so other than that one year of the 208 understood it's maintains around 160 it goes from 163 to 160 to 164 so to change it by 50 Cents a quarter isn't I got so yeah but even still if the numbers are roughly 160 that's yeah that's still your can we make that you know what's one you know $20 a quarter then well so th this this charge that we're putting on for just yeah indul for a second this charge goes to this project correctly cannot go to anything else so if we let's say we rounded that up to $16 a quarter per customer for sake of argument loay when we get to a certain point and we're getting ready to make our final payments we can take whatever's in the kitty and we could be done early yeah it because it it's whatever it is whatever the amount that the public is paying yeah goes specifically towards this project this project alone yes and if we're scheduled out the 20 years and we get it done in 19 years and 6 months yeah then so be it they still all you take pay that and allocate it towards another loan that's there or something yeah yes okay so with that being said I I I agree with the chair on 20 years um you had another point that you were I'd like to try to make whether we go for another temporary I want to do another temporary I would I would agree that if we feel we can get a close to number I think um yeah so that was the other part in having the meeting with them that um some some of the questions that we had was what if we decide so we're on budget right now just about 2 m milon 2.1 million right uh I thought like 1.8 but that doesn't include any work in the springtime right all right right yeah so call it 2 million once we have our numbers if we sit there and say okay we want to go for the bond y right now we're going to get the process going our number is $2 million and the project comes in slightly over two $250,000 we do have funds you know Fran and I were talking about we do have funds that we could make up that slight difference if we needed to if we come in slightly over he's um the bank said anything correct me if I'm wrong in this situ because it was kind of a couple of things so anything if uh $50,000 or less you as the chairman can reallocate to a similar project so like say we wanted to do Rolling Acres I got you it has to be a similar water M project but so anything 50,000 and under you guys can if it's over the 50,000 then we have to have like a special meeting and we go to them and say we've got $150,000 that we over budgeted for this right we would like to vote to allocated to go towards this it has to be another water another water it always has to go to a similar project we can't put it towards anything yeah that's going to be up to the public they because we're doing this based on just this project well legally you have he you it has to go to a similar I have a question so let's just say right now I'm just making up numbers here that MDR came and said you know what as of if we wrapped it up this year and we never came back it's $1.8 million okay we estimate that it's another 250,000 to come back in the spring and spread mulsh you know whatever it may be okay so then we go for our temporary bond for that 2,500,000 right now if we come up that were 10 20 grand short in other words it went over that budget a little bit we have money that we can simply just pay that without any corre any to do I would prefer to approach it that way as long as we think we can get those numbers you know fairly close and I think we can which we did we had conversation I did and fr it and we actually again tell you that that was why I requested to the state on the paying so that the goal is to come up with a pretty MDR feels confident that they can get a pretty solid number to I would I would like to air on the side of that versus taking too much money and having to reallocate it something else that's just me yeah I would want to have to go to the public and it just it just it's just bad Optics I would rather I'd rather favor taking a little less I know we have some money in our you know different funds that we could easily cover up that you know with I don't I want I don't want to be $120,000 off but yeah I agree I mean I think we can get pretty pretty close you know because I mean the main part of the project is complete yeah yeah if we get that answer from do that dictates that number and then they said they would work with us we'll sit down we'll pull out some numbers so we can get it so so this was just the the the big decisions was uh which way you want to go because they have to decide pretty much by next week the week after dictates do we start working with S&P Global rating cuz that's a whole process of getting making sure the auditor done getting the audit from them they got to review everything so um so if that's the way you guys want to go I think if we have those big questions answered I'm fine with going that way I mean this is this is preliminary then when from that we will derive a a more accurate number roughly what we're going to need to increase the yeah based on the full amount too I I my got feelings we're going to be below that number yeah this is yeah these numbers are based on 2335 million and we're hoping 2.1 you know we're seeing a significant decrease in what we anticipated what be paying y so yeah and I won't have the final rate until we actually go out to bid so I won't have hard numbers until um roughly January so if if we decide to go for the bond now I'm going to talk to him tomorrow let him know what you guys decide then it's pretty much they get on the books with S&P Global come to December we've got meetings with them they actually have to like interview me and talk about our finances and all that kind of stuff then come January you guys would have to approve this to go out to bid so it's a whole long process so I mean we how long do you know whether we'd have to incur those extra expenses to do the intersections and stuff but it's Mass theot took us almost two years to get the permit so uh hopefully soon we we have a meeting tomorrow with MDR our engineer St may maybe we can get some calls in and see if we get if there was additional work that needed to be done we would just add it to this correct uh well I think this number's already got the added work into oh so oh this is yeah this is the high number this this is contingency and everything so I I don't think we're going to hit so you're saying this number might adjust between now and January when we finally sign on a note yes well it can I need to I need to give unan what number do we want to go out to bid for I I should have grabbed my sheet I have it hanging up um with my whole list of everything that's going to happen in the next couple months but I want to say very early December I have to have if not Thanksgiving I have that's a that's a wild card for me is if we got a if if do says you have to do this work then that's that's going to be a significant no I agree I don't think it was it was I think it was uh the budget numbers I think it was 65,000 because we' already looked at the budget numbers before as a change order you talking about 65,000 do the paving if so if we if we bypass it we're not saving hug huge amounts even if we have to do it we're not not spending huge amounts okay you know I think worst case me I think there's certain areas but you know we're not total let's just say that that's 65,000 see like if we had our numbers real tight and we left that 65,000 out of this whole equation for right now MDR came up and said hey this is uh this is the total for this year plus the little bit for next year and let's just call it 2.1 million MH if we I would be okay with being going forward with that and if some reason the state comes back and says you need the 65,000 I would have no problem taking that out of our funds and doing it to secure these loans to kind of fold the pages on there once again I want a three but I I think that's the neatest way to approach this it is $65,000 it's a lot of money but well and we also still have money we still have some money that we've been gathering for this project with the yeah so there might be money there that that's yep so yeah that's true to allocate what we've been taking okay that's an OP that would be my favorite approach to do this that's how we could adjust if we had to from that time okay yeah I think that kind of like folds this up and and PR presents it to the customers they know the exact number and we we push on okay so then we I make a motion that the we charge the clerk Treasurer to move forward with the final bond for February for 20 years to close out the finance part of the project for the massab water main replacement so moved okay I guess we're both in favor I guess I made a motion you moved it right I would ask anybody else what this guess it's us okay all right so that's done that's done um how do you feel about those oh I don't know I guess I'll make a motion and we uh approve the minutes of October 23rd 2024 so moved okay next thing up uh P results for Lancaster as well okay so we as this has been stated numerous times uh so we we've been sampling each individ individual well on lter ab and also the Blended sample which is what was uh presented to everybody during the time Bond presentations was the uh Blended sample uh so we we did sampling now it's actually part of our DP requirements uh the multi the Lancaster have the blenders uh that came back with a uh POA pfoa of 4.19 uh the maximum new regulations is 4.0 and the the P fost the pfos came back to 2.76 but so that one passed and uh well number five on Lancaster AB uh this one the the the old regulation was 20 pots per trillion uh W number five fail that so now it's doesn't even meet the regulations from the past so now the new regulations with the full po Pon uh the p pfoa is 8.67 and the p pfos is 4.89 so that fills both of those so uh I think we're going to get it from DP that we not going to be allowed to run worldall number five by itself for now but even on the Blended we still exceeding Blended so we're okay now because that regulation isn't come out yet but uh as we've I've been saying tough spot so four Wells on lanaster AV correct just so people understand four independent well sites on Lancaster a and the sampling you were doing up till this date was a blended sample of those four Wells running at the same time correct they can't all all run at the same time due to odors colors and other things you can only draw so much from some of them so if well number five is the only well that we can run down there continuously which is our best well then what you're saying is DP might say that we cannot run that well by itself under the new regulations possibility uh I think it's going to even come even a little more that you cannot run that well with only this well you're going to have to run that well with with these other two Wells or something because you're going you're going to need to lute that level to a level that is accepted but that's only until the new once that new regulation comes in those off M so so people understand when we CU a lot of times people don't understand that there are multiple Wells down there we talk about Lancaster a but how you have to run them is kind of going to be a shell it's a shell game now yes you can only run certain ones certain amounts of time you can't run some by themselves and now we're talking about Pas levels exceeding the allowable limits to the point where we could get restricted on our best producing well on Lancaster app that's correct okay I just want to make sure that I understand I I already understand it all because we've been talking about this all along but I want people at home to understand that it's it's not as simple as some people may think so when you run a well like a well that's newly developed that there's you you pump it at full capacity for 15 days and you it has to stabilize meaning the water entering the aquafer is recharged enough to what's what's coming out and the the case so the Wells on L cast are out that that doesn't happen so you'll see when the Well's running the water level in the well continually drops and then when you shut it off it comes back but it doesn't come back to where it was when it started it got close but it didn't so next time it continues to drop then when it comes back not not even to where it was the day before so in the old days before we had Kings uh that just kept dropping kept dropping so we we' get to the point where we could only run 4 hours and they would be shutting off to the low water level so well number one and wall number four have that issue so wall number five can pump continuously because that was set up during the new new regulations with the long-term pump test and well number two that one uh original capacity was 190 gallons of in but we only run it at like 70 now because of bacteria and color problems but even if you run it at 70 gallons a minute 24 hours a day because we did a pump test on one of the wells we Tred to move well number two behind it and so we ran that well for 15 days straight and that water came out as yellow as you could get it was almost brown so uh that's that's a limited use well too so the the only well that we have full access to 24 hours a day is well number five and by this PR fast sampling is uh when's the next time that we will sample uh I think they only had us doing it once a year I think now that once they see this they're going to step us up yeah because we're going to we're we're going to have to get more sampling to know know what kind of changes we have going on so I would think these are worse these are worse than than the last time uh so nothing's getting better was we're seeing a decline and uh yeah I don't I don't see anything getting better so I don't know what you what people want to do for how to so the remedy to this can we we have when would we have an idea from d on as far as how much they're going to regulate some some well I mean we just got these and today yeah I'm just kind of oh yeah they are because said these go to yeah was it that bad was it close to that bad last time or I think it was 18 yeah yeah so it was getting up there but usually usually kind of head held steady yeah this sorry well five does us said one 190 no no uh 280 280 what do the other wees do uh you want what they actually do or what they're permanent for I wanted to know what they do what they do well you can actually run them uh 280 for wall number five uh wall number one's pumping about 150 wall number two is 70 wall number four is around 220 you got to do all that man yeah I'm going to tell you what it's very close to but people aren't going to like it and well five is is the only one that you actually can pump pretty much continuous the other one you have to limited limited limited well well five needs to be well right now the pumping uh it's permited for 280 uh now it's it's not quite pumping that it needs to be uh rebuilt the pump sure and uh I was planning on doing it but uh with all this P fast d we need to replace all those pumps didn't definitely touching that pump so you you you'll hear people say well add add turn on wall number three do turn on there is no W number three well it's there I mean so wall number three get shut down and we built number five to replace wall number three so it's a very shallow Acer I mean we're talking wall number one's 31 ft deep uh wall number four is 49t deep but the water tables at 20 ft deep so you don't have a whole lot of water to work with so if you add more Wells down they could you add more Wells yeah probably I would but all all you did is you're going to you're going to make no sense you're only grabbing so much water you can only grab so much water so many straws in the glass so yeah you could put more I guess I I just obviously this is a a concern this is a this is a problem um that we're going to have to figure it out but I just I guess what I'm wondering is like how long can we Band-Aid this thing together you know by mixing it with other things no well and when you talk to engineers and people don't like to hear this that they don't even feel it's worth building a treatment plant down there for the limit amount of I I agree with you so and if they're going so be it yeah yeah I I know when we were originally looking at everything that the the Blended idea of utilizing that site and another site that had similar problems was a was a really I thought that was a great idea knowing how we l up to it but so we'll just I guess we'll have to see where that goes uh with our next conversation I guess because we have we also have to figure out where the Kings Pilot's going yeah I got I got updates on that too be ready for that so I I guess I would see I'm I would assume D would want us to test more frequently I would like to see us test like 6 months from now to see where this is going cuz if it's trending worse then we should we really have to you know keep updated on the information so we can well yeah figure out what we're going to do I mean the key thing the new regulations is full possit we've already failed it so so no matter what uh well well number four and well number two will you could run it because that that passes the four parts per train well number one and five failed uh actually one fail pass time but it was close uh we haven't got the results of wall two and four yet usually wall number four is the best it has some p in it uh but not not any of the regulation number yet yeah well but we don't we can't we can hypothetically say d is going to tell us something to regulate it but we don't know until they come and tell us that we can't run certain certain Wells right or we can't run them unless it's Blended or they whatever plan we're going to have to kind of have a plan for just so uh other comments have come out in the past that you know we can run it no matter what D says well that's case that's not me I'm not losing my license they say you can't run that well it's like it's going on you want to turn it on you guys could do it CU I'm not n interesting yes that is exactly bored I was thinking well that's interesting news um nothing I ain't told anybody 100 times before we all know this uh so anything to add to that NOP it Mr bur anything more on that no I think we definitely need to keep an eye on it so that we can take all this information and try to figure out how we're going to trudge forward yeah I'm interested in to see what uh when we talk about see where we're going with the the Kings pilot just to see how that's that's doing with the issues and concerns we have coming up there and and see what that's going to cost and then I think we are still working on a comprehensive plan with time Bond didn't we have we were applying for a grant more more getting all these studies and we're still going to get a load of information coming in at some point that says this place costs this much they received it and they sent a letter that said we received it okay 100 100 people apply we let you know kind of type of thing so and that's the thing still might be stuff we have to appropriate money for because we have to figure out what each site's going to cost us well yeah some point it's going to have to you're gonna have to stop waiting and say what are we doing yeah but we still need the data that oh yeah yeah the pilot study this type of data the pilot study data and then we can then we can figure out what we're going to do to move forward yeah okay yeah commissioner superintendent keing pilot yeah you go with that's old business oh that's old business well oh old business list you're a chair so we additions okay so the only I got just uh we keep bringing up the one time truck uh the board has different opinions on what to do uh what do you went out there we checked out the truck the truck's actually structurally decent you know it's just a dump body that's rotted needs a new dump body so we went and uh got pricing so it was uh 122,000 for a whole new dump body pumping everything and then to do the two shoots in the back for hot topping which is mostly we use that truck was hot topping and then doing the top it was like just under 15,000 we Ed 15,000 as a budget to fix that truck uh now we're up and going so Wood's opinion is we fix the truck and not spend 80 or $90,000 on a new truck that we're not using on a daily it's not a daily run truck and wean we do have days if we have a broken name we'll use it three or four days in a row but then uh you could sit there for a month you know so and Woody's opinion is uh and I'm I'm kind of with Woody I mean I no I would agree if you're not using it every day then we don't need to have a brand new truck sitting there it's a diesel that's prde that we own in you know I I like Terry service truck absolutely I mean that thing you know it's cycle Bel this year I just I think putting some money into it it buys us another 10 years plus on that truck and it's uh something we can't buy right now we can't buy a a pre-f diesel right now can you no can't buy a diesel you even buy a diesel that's just a steel a steel body put on it with a subframe in ho yeah yeah I would go definitely all yeah the whole if the if the frame on the truck is good fr's good you know all the that truck look like a lot of the updates is done the injector or at least half of them like all the things that are kind of common with that and it's only got 50,000 mil something like that and you know someone can rip the mirror off a brand new truck too or something so yeah it's all right so as they go do we have that we have that in the budget to do in our maintenance budget so this is we can go forward and yep well we did that special line line prop we can can take that out of that and then we do also have the truck account which there is a little bit of money in that too so we have money available I think it's a good idea they said if you bring it if we bring it it'll be there for a month and we'll get it back if we set an appointment then they're going to push us all two mons so I say we just drop it off and leave it there survive without it yeah y yep well that works okay sounds good well if you want me to kind of tie in with that pretty the other uh the other side of talking about equipment is I started getting excavator prices if we were on that we can be so three prices I got so far you won't like them average 200 for a rubber tire machine for the rubber tire machine so I started getting I kind of went with a lot of people the only three prices I have right now is for a Hydra dig which I think is a a GCB mhm um well actually that's the cheapest that one I just got yesterday 66 and then I got two different prices I mean this is where you're going to have to look at it and decide size size and everything the larger one a case one for 237 the smaller model of it 205 so I've also got one into what else did I call John Deere he called that John Deere did yes so a couple other prices so I told everybody and this and the nice thing what everybody's going through is the um Source well which is like um comes you get your the discount already on some of that so if I go through and do all this we don't actually have to go out to bid because this is State bid pricing so this is what I'm getting from everybody so it's it's just going to come down to you guys looking at what size machine you want and this this would be replacing the back home yes yeah that's the toughest thing in the back the re when you're loading the dump tru we don't have a container so so this is replacing the JCB okay so the cat would then slide into the JCB slot because I mean that's 15 years old 96 yeah that thing's old um what would a what would a what would the back ho what if we bought a brand new BHO what are we looking at probably 15 yeah I was going to guess 140 but yeah they're up there I mean the cat bought that was 91 that was uh 2009 I'm still not 100% sure this is what we need but this is this is just my I don't know well I think we were talking like the longterm stuff this this was we're trying to do the decisions of what we were thinking about when we talked to the past couple meetings you know figured i' Deb prices for now told everybody realistically if this is going to happen it's not till next fiscally here but just to get some ideas was which way the district wants to go do do we want to do a lot inhouse you know we talked about doing working on our Capital Improvement plan well are we going to be paying engineers and prevailing wage for contractors to do it or do we want to invest in the water district and invest in equipment and trucks and manpower to do it to do it in house throughout the you know over the next what 50 you know over over the years so I think so to me I think the rubber tire makes sense for not only yes the back is capable of doing the watermain brakes but if this is something we're looking at long term for us doing our projects in housee then the excavator makes the most sense so when you guys did Maple Parkway if you had this machine you would not have rented a machine correct right so if we if we purchased a machine I would probably get one that's similar size to what we rent it was 30,000 lb machine and that but that was on tracks right yes yeah but this would be a wheel machine that would have multi multiple capabilities so $150,000 of this machine would be your back replacement correct so you're just you're spending just that little bit more if we decided to go down the route of doing more upgrades inhouse to for the savings so not a bad thing to kind of think about and kick down Twisted that one pretty good on how do you like that I know I'm saying this for me to yeah be in on it I would want to I would not just buy this wield excavator just to buy it just so you know I would only reason why I think that if if we would have to really solidify our Capital let's say call it water pipe Improvement plan I know Capital Improvement plan you know our water main capital Improvement plan is I I really want to solidify all right our plan over the next 10 years is to hire more people whatever it may be however we figure out to do and this would be part of that equation mhm I don't I'm not saying no or anything but I would really have to look into is this the best piece of equipment for the lomberg water department you know I mean it looks awesome and fine geez I want one too but is there I just I'm not saying no but I would definitely want to kind of square the thing off and be like this this this well you had uh John come um bazo come down to the site because didn't MDR have one they have a nice B yeah yeah yeah so John stopped down there checked it out he's like this better be on the agenda cuz we're buying one well I mean great it's funny the one who was against cheap one he wants the new truck he wants that right I just you know I mean it all depends on kind of what you're doing with it you know what I'm saying like to do a simple water main break I'd rather have a v truck to be honest with you um yeah you know um so it just I guess it's like we really need to put our heads together and figure out what is our Capital Improvement plan over the next 10 years and how to approach this and let's start then putting the right pieces in place to make that happen yeah okay two well this was just another piece to the puzzle I guess for us to figure out but but you can't get to the talking point till you do that Baseline stuff abely I'm not you know it's you know the other thing to consider is one so replacing the JCB which I'm all four what's the JCB worth yeah is it worth it's only worth five grand I'm going to be like keep it and put park it at the other building and just in case you ever need it or something I mean or do we still want a loader like a wheel loader like you know I I would think a wheel loader would be a pretty handy thing to have around here but um I don't think we need to buy a new one of those just yeah usine the JCB we bu Ed right I mean I'm sure you can find a 544 type of machine for30 $40,000 I think that would I agree so yeah if we're going to move forward with trying to do Capital in-house having some sort of a plan we are definitely going to spend more money on on machinery and stuff so you know knowing like having a budget for the type of Machinery that we're going to need to do that that work kind of a budget for payroll for the Personnel we're going to need to do that kind of work and then look at that next to if we went out to bid for these projects and what that cost would be if we just had somebody else do it right and if there's if there's savings to be realized and and we want to move forward with an in- housee and then you know I don't think that's a bad thing and it gives you so much more capability should you have a main break you're going to have so much more equipment at your disposal because it'll be on other you know be on I am all for if we're spending $2 million to spend it right here in lunberg hiring another person and everything I I'm all for that it just how we do it I just think we need to have a a more calculated approach on the plan y I mean is this something that you want me to continue to put on the agenda to I mean like what sure I mean I mean is this is this something so I guess I'm thinking ahead here cuz we're coming I know it seems weird cuz our fiscal year just started in July but we literally are going to be having budget we're going to be meeting with employees talking you know budget for next year to have the budget ready by January February for an annual meeting in March so is this something we want to have more like what would you guys like to see to decide which way to go so we can figure out is this something that we're working towards deciding on for this year well it could be March to go forc go for I mean this if we're talking about Capital expenditures it's something we're going to need funding for the best spot to get funding is going to be to go at our annual meeting for it so I would suggest and I hate doing this but we might have to have a workshop to really discuss what the costs are associated with us doing it in-house and what the cost associated with us hiring out and whatever the options are in between so that we have something that when we go to our annual meeting we can present to the public and say we have aging infrastructure we need to fix it we've come up with you know XYZ ways to do it y this is the way we feel best we would like to you know uh you know we'd like to start appropriating funding for this so what if we what if we looked at that Capital Improvement plan that you that we already have you sat there and prioritized you know these are the top projects that I want to do if we did one a year if we did Rolling Acres this year if we did this if we did that and we presented that to say time Bond and said hey these are the five projects we want to do could you get just a hypothetical number of this much water M on a non-state road or you know what I mean whatever it is and if they could get the hypothetical numbers and they said all right for Rolling Acres for you to go out to bid would be X number and we could sit there and say all right well pipe is it is what it is we can get those numbers but what is it in house yeah so they have their general cost so they know 8 in pipe looking at this per foot so they could come up the pretty basic number on that and then their engineering fee which you know and then if you're paying prevailing wage right so then well the price per foot of the pipe would be a prevailing weight so I mean you could easily look at it I would love to just have a little that comparison being like let's just take Rolling Acres if we uh we said all right Rolling Acres is the next on our Capital Improvement plan but we bumped it up this is where it needs to be and if we said this thing went out to bid and MDR grabbed it it would cost x amount okay so it's $2 million let just makeing yep now we start looking at like okay we think it's going to take x amount of man hours to do it etc etc etc how can we make that work for the lunenberg water department and the customers you know just kind of break it down like all right so if we had this machine this machine we hired two more people you know whatever it may be temporary we we've talked about a million different ways to do it you know I mean I I so I guess my question is do you guys see this as something that I know we've got a million yeah we also have a problem about spending a bunch of money when like I don't know what that answer is either so I I get that but you know I guess I'm following up on the the um residents comments about you know what our last meeting is about what about your Capital Improvement so I guess that kind of got us on it so I guess it was just a matter of is this something that we want to focus on now do we want to sit tight focus on posos you know try to put a little bit into this or we just kind of I think we can hammer out a lot in one one meeting about Capal Improvement if you can get some of those you know if we get some I know a ton on I've been studying roll rolling for three years now I've been trying to do it so we get yeah but we we haven't been because we have other things rotating staff you know right now we got staff but now we're going to need more staff or a you know put out the bid for a subcontractor that we can hire but do we have to pay prevailing wage to a subcontractor yes anybody that we hire the only time you don't have to is if it's an emergency call or an owner operator so they can bid whatever they want true so um you know some some things like that I mean you know what is actually would probably be a pretty good idea if we did this let's just say let's just take Rolland acres and let's if you have the time for sorry this on and just a rough me you know it well if you could just figure in your mind of materials which we can materials are materials I mean that's that's going to that's not going to sway if we bid it out or not I guess man hours involved what do we think the man hours would be to to do something like that I probably have all that figured up I studied I my whole thing was not purchasing a machine it was renting a machine that was $4,000 a month so I mean to me I don't even think we need two months with budget two mhm uh Paving I guess I don't know it was like five weeks to do the job my my wasn't doing the whole beginning metal Lane yeah so that that was pretty much it so I mean that's kind of I I just I'd like to see some comparison to and um we just can't expect our guys to do that like we need help like they have a job here you know I I fully intended us to do it ourselves no no hireing anybody yeah we it's it's a little slower you know like one guy's there one guy's they well we we we had one guy we we H we had Jeff Bingham who was retired sure sure he came back and then when Jeff couldn't be there we had John there we didn't know Christie could run a machine but she said it but I believe her but uh so you know someone couldn't be there every day so we we would work our way around you know so that's what we did and then broken main somewhere else other things came out I a job sitting sitting tight today and we'll come back tomorrow so and so Maple map P took us a while yeah but but it cost us I think it was under $30,000 the whole job that was the pipe and proper was ideal a dead end Road you know that you didn't have to disrupt service until it was time to tie over right that was ideal yeah we we broke it a couple times Sone the mass that happens but I guess that's kind of just this is once again I'm one of three here that's just my thought on this I'm not saying I'm against it or anything but before we just buy something or we have this great idea let's maybe put some numbers behind it and then also figure out when we do have have this how we actually going to do this project yeah yeah so so like like I said I've studied rolling it because because that one that's street that really bothers me uh so that one was was the main one for me but there are the other streets which would be a lot more difficult you know like the Pleasant Street uh that one's a lot more traffic you probably got that one's probably more time sensitive because you know you're probably going to have police details there so you don't want to be details you know so that one you got to that one you you start that job you you keep walking away at it so that one would need manp power because that one we couldn't say hey we got to broken water me that one's just going to sit there you really can't do but I maybe in the long run as we figure all this out it may be worth hiring another person why we do these in I don't know you know I mean if if the numbers lined up it may be like hey we could we spend an x amount on this or we could bring another person into this teach him Waterworks hopefully get a longterm that's we kind of talked about that was last me me for p fast is going to mean more manp power so may maybe this is a get the people in door start training before the P fast and then when the then when the treatment plants come in they kind of have a backgound already sure okay more work add it to the list Sor I agree with you just focus on on Maple Parkway for right now let's do the math on that right and and when you're talking about it it's still it'ss involved that we have so your actual costs have to include you know what what our manh hours would be for that project because you know and it's it's nice that we're optimizing the guys that we have for for multiple duties and and when we can do stuff like that in small improvements do we want to do it that way or do we want to full-blown like get a crew that just does replacement every day which I I think might be too much I think doing it inhouse maybe adding a guy or um a subcontract operator or something or a subcontracted machine or rented whatever we just you know I think if we had something and we could present it to the public and come up with a figure like even the 15 I mean we just we're we we've done well we we brought the $25 number down roughly $10 if everything works out yeah say you know we want to take and we want to add $5 a year to your bill and we're going to do in-house projects and we're going to do them at a at a value to the lunenberg water not going out and getting loans yeah right and and see if something like that you know if if that's the number see if something like that flies and we're putting whatever that's putting into improvements every year yeah and we do what we can and pick the worst ones and keep working through it okay okay anything else no not on that on anything at all uh the pilot testing the heatings yes okay so that one uh the Project's being delayed because we're not running the well enough they they need the run time of the well to run the uh the pilot testing so we don't run the well continuously so as of today we turn the well on 24 hours a day waste we're just dumping it off uh so for the town we're going to just just be running the Lancaster app to feat the town till that testing is done how long will that testing take it they were pushing because it was taking so long that we were pushing out a couple months they were saying inre in the budget was at 40,000 I think it was to because it was taking so long they need their staff so they're like that's mostly because it's tickets on so they weren't generating enough flow through their plant so now this way we can step it up and and saturate the filters they need the run time on the filters and uh so now by running running the wall continuously we can uh pick and do that thing and what time frame does that look at look like uh I don't know we just we're talking about it today I know last week they they mentioned it so I I meant I mentioned again today if that's what they feel they need to do let me know we'll do it and then uh they said yeah let's let's let's do that so starting tomorrow they're going to start running that so I I haven't heard how much it's going to tighten it up but I would imagine a third less time because we typically run8 n hours a day so now they'll be you know 24 hours a day so yeah they're not they weren't seeing enough flow through the through the filters to get any enough to to make a call on it is there any way not to run it all the waste and run the thing or is that yeah have everybody in lenberg open that faucet then and then and then now now we need to record that yeah so whatever goes into the system we need to record now it's when we dump it the waste it's just waste the only thing it's cost us is the electric pill no chemicals just the electric pill and it's only the the low pressure pump at the well so the way that well runs low pressure the at the well pumps up the pump BS got and then we pump it in the system y so we're just running on the low low host ball okay pump the W that made me feel a little bit better always got to save what you a couple dollars um and they're still determining the hardness and all of that yes for how that's going to affect the treatment great um I'd like to see like an idea on how long I mean if you know when you know how long it's going to take because it's it seems like we've been doing these pilot studies and they keep kind of drying yeah yeah well we got to remember keing just doed because uh there was fighting going on between DP and testing guys oh so yeah keing hasn't been on okay any else I'm good you guys good good anything from the public yeah all right um what what were you describing uh with the the rubber of something that replace a and take place of a of a a back home all right so currently right now we have back home to we water m braks or something you know it's a regular back that that digs what we're looking at is you know like an excavator or even like a small mini excavator looks like that t instead of tracks it has rubber tire it has rubber tires so you can drive it down the road okay so you wouldn't have to trailer let's say like a regular excavator to wherever you're at but we don't do that now do we no cuz we can drive we drive the back up this is a driving excavator for all right okay this A major advantage to an excavator over a back you can spin all the way around higher lift and good 200,000 roughly replace the bco that we currently have we're looking at about 40 to 150,000 and the back's in 1996 uh one's a 96 and one's a 2009 yeah okay um the uh what what what do you think the program will be for the king socalled uh you mean that the treatment plan yeah I mean you know the it's hard water right yes and the and the P so they would be a a pre testing uh pre- removal of the hotness and then it would go through the past removal and then distributed into the water system so be it' be a two-part process hardness first and then the if you if you remove the hardness you preast treatment removing the hardness has a byproduct or a waste material that is now P contaminated yes and how do you get rid of that how do we dispose yeah yeah it's it's it's not it's not going to be easy and it's it's not going to be cheap uh yeah so I think they were they were talking thousands of gallons a week to to dispose of and and where and how do you pay someone or wey buy a tanker truck and we do it ourself how was ourself how would it be uh is it compatible with the swimming pools [Laughter] no wer they yeah wer a good idea but uh weren't they trying as part of the pilot to determine whether they could remove the past and then do the remove the hardness that way the byproduct of the hardness would not be contaminated with Pas but wasn't that well that was one of that was one of the concerns was that the the hotness was going to the F the fil right so ultimately come the lesser of two but is it forever because if youum there is if you don't remove it then you have a contaminant so how much are you paying to get rid of that but if you do remove it and you're changing your filters more is that cheaper than buying a tank or truck what pile can fill up for us is basically it's like what pile is going to fill up first either uh hardness that's full of P or P that's already treated but we need a the hardness Crush these things we have to replace them all the time the pilot test will tell what I can tell you is it's not going to go smooth it's probably going to be pretty elaborate expensive probably more than most ke ass treatment PS around but we'll find out okay so and the cost of run it depending upon whatever material we have to get rid of yep the maintenance cost cost could could varry us mhm okay I'm I'm just going to hit you with some some thoughts that You' talked about um I think it's it's a great idea if you could do it uh to have in-house people that can dig and and you can do these projects and stuff for obvious reasons okay did you say that you'd only do part of of rolling anes uh yes we don't need to do the whole hill because we we don't tend to have broken water Ms up on the top section mostly the the beginning section Y and that would be my main focus from from Lancaster a to metal Lane Y and then uh and maybe that would be phase one and then phase two would be metal Lane okay uh depending how things went maybe do phase one and phase two at the same time so but I mean the evental goal would be lra after the metal Lane and metal Lane the top section knocking on wood because the only time we've had a broken man up the top is when the telephone company drove through the Waring so the top section we've been pretty lucky the pressure is a lot lower because it climbs climbs pretty high up there the pressure is probably only like 30 to 40 pounds do we have the excuse me do we have the Personnel in place now that can operate back hos and do digging on that kind of stuff um not really I mean I I can do a little bit yeah uh usually calling Jeff I mean that's not even feasible I mean you got to but anyway I well the guys the guys the guys that are working now I me they're training and and they're they're getting there they're going to get better they're only going to get better at it I agree one they got they need to learn it you know uh they've never uh PJ's done a little bit on broken water mans uh but he's never done actual Auto main installation project but I think he'd uh he'll learn he'll get yeah and we we got to get some more people on CDLs because I'm the only one with the CDL so that's that's a tough G now I mean geez doesn't does a highway department even buy heavy trucks anymore or not or or CDL trucks they get guys they can't get them and then the guys get their CDLs and leave you know it's a when you were talking about about money you you alluded to the fact that that if you were a little shy you could take some money that you have already and throw it into the uh the mix to to make the thing work y right um I'm sorry you talking about Mass the loan yeah yeah okay yeah that's just Mass yeah switch subjects why would you do that why would you use your own money and not borrowed money to do that well it's just if we came in under yeah the goal would be to borrow the correct amount but if we messed up in and didn't have it if something came you're not talking a lot of money to borrow I take it from Peter to pay Paul because if we go over budget then if we have let's say we we took an extra $75,000 now we need to go back to the public and reallocate that $75,000 to another water main and I I just don't think it's a good good look I just the whole idea of this extra of this per quarter payment is on this one project so we're trying to contain all of the the financing and everything and what people pay Associated to that one project so we we borrowed this and we said hey guys we know we're charging this on the bill but there's an extra $75,000 and we just went and started working on another project with it they might be like well hold on you told us this money was for this right so and I'm going to tell you with you know my considered opinion is as we go forward economically real broad brush type of thing they're going to be auditing like crazy auditing you know because it's you know that's what's going to happen I think so you got to be ready for that where'd you get this yeah no I understand the goal with this is to be as transparent yes as as we can possibly be what what is the um uh approximate uh uh cost uh of borrowing money the two the two ways that you were talking about with the uh the bonds y short term and longer term yep what cost what do you mean like the percentage rate or yeah so they're about 5.6 3. 3 oh sorry I glasses on daame I could this for you right around 3.5 what right around 3.5% for what for for the percentage rate for borrowing okay for you've got for for two things right they're about five 0.05 off right now between the temporary they had one that if you went for 27 years yeah was 3.97 n yeah another one if you went final Bond if you did the 20 years you're looking right around 3.5 3.6 that's it's kind of a Nob brainer yeah yeah it's big number at the bottom that changes it you know when we broke it down you're looking at for 27 years you're looking at paying back you know 4 million 20 years you're looking back at paying 3.4 so and it's only roughly $2 well did you say paying back 20 million no no 2 million did I say three no you said you said it correctly so borrowing roughly if the estimates that they're giving us this isn't all final numbers yeah 2335 million if we if we went to bonds for that after 27 years we would pay back 4.64 million yeah okay that's 27 years if we borrow the 2,335 for 20 years it would be we pay back 3,447 so 7 years longer you're paying roughly $600,000 more mhm so that's where it came to it so then that's when I broke it down for to pay over the 27 years it' be roughly $13.44 per resident to do 20 years $15.39 so for $2 more $600,000 7 years less MH was kind of what they were deciding on and that's why they agreed the 20 years is better for $2 more per person absolutely yeah or per all right just to to give you anide I mean she give the math is we're paying a little over 1.1 million in interest over the term but I mean those are decent rates folks you 3 just drop another I I just got one quick question this this will really throw Mr Rogers off is there a prepayment penalty I didn't that's a good question some loans right Dave I got whacked with that I tried well they grabbed their all their interest pretty fast off up front and I I do understand what you're saying but the reality is us having a windfall of3 million I don't think you can pay a bond all you got you got to go through the whole thing right d I thought so okay because they sell this as an investment you know to people and they they want to know that that stream of return is is going to keep coming right yeah all right um with your permission I'm going to uh write down some stuff uh because you talked a lot and uh I can just get back just give you this stuff yeah yep so Dave instead of us going through bonds why don't you pay for this SM yeah you know I'm I'm getting more than 3.5% I was kind of shoo for 2% AR you but up your shirt your how fall the interest rates are dropping do you think they will go any lower that's up to the bank and not this is just yeah this is them that would be a good question when you sit down and talk to them again we just talked to him yeah I asked that's it and he's like I we kind of think it's going to stay pretty steady so I mean we could see a touch draw I mean Dave's right this is actually in in the borrowing world this is a a good time to borrow this is a great rate like this yeah and that's a fix R it's a lot of money to us but it's penis in the industry yeah I'm still I'm still caught up on us that's a lot of yeah what that's a lot of money and I'm still caught up on me it's I don't care who sure for the building treatment plans when we borrow yeah we're not we're not we're not up there we're down here and I see a million dollars in interest and I have a heart attack so yeah wait till we go borrow 40 bu I don't even want what kind of interest if we had the zero it would have been nice I would I caution I'll talk to you later um anyway um interesting times very interesting times anything else to add Mr R no sir I'm fine thank I'm all set y anything else from the members here no go good good good I'll accept a motion to a Jour oh yeah we're done