##VIDEO ID:fgYCjvNQdMU## record they applied April to all these places and I applied to two places and got accepted at okay I'd like to welcome you to the lunenberg zoning board of appeals um I will tell you how the hearing is going to proceed but first I have to give you a notification uh that uh this hearing is being recorded in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting will be broadcast live through local access cable on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page and we be able to be found on the lunberg public access YouTube channel within 24 hours after the meeting to participate remotely from a computer go to zoom meeting computer and app users may use a raise hand feature uh to request to speak and with that um I'd like to in Ru you to the board on my left is Lisa nman in the board secretary I'm Alfred gel this is uh James bakosi Hans winr David blat Patrick Callahan Tony necastro and Don gurny on the end the way the hearing will proceed uh the um Lisa will read the application or any other submitted Communications the applicant will have the opportunity for comments on the application or submission of additional documents you will please come forward to the mic give your name and address board members will have the opportunity to ask questions that they might have on the application while you were at the mic and there will be a public comment period if anyone would like to speak please come forward to the mic give your name and address and address all comments and questions to the board with that I would ask Le to read the first petition okay this is an application for a special permit Massachusetts General Law chapter 48 section 9 zoning board of appeals the name and address of each applicant it's the Barrow family irrevocable trust vanen Cleber and Brenda barrows of the trustees 615 Townsen Street and Fitchburg Mass 01462 the unders sign hereby appeals as follows seeking a special permit for relief from the one-year required waiting period for occupancy of an accessory dwelling unit on the property after occupancy of the the primary dwelling the proposed action has begun the basis for this application is found on the following section of the lunenberg zoning bylaw section 250 4.1 h1k street address is 615 Townsen Street which is part in lunberg and part in Fitchburg um the assesses map 56-7 the name and address of legal holder to the land which is the subject of this case is Barrow's family irrevocable trust B and clber Emerson and Brenda baros the deed is recorded in Wiston Northern District registry of deeds book 11692 page 161 and recorded December 28th 2023 the answers and uh the questions and answers to the special permit questions are as follows will the proposed action be injurious or dangerous to the public health or duly hazardous because of traffic congestion danger of fire or explosion or other reasons the response no new home is almost complete requesting to utilize existing dwellings on the property will this action have a material adverse effect on the value of land and buildings in the neighborhood or on the amenities of the neighborhood the response no will increase values as newly built home c will the proposed action be operated with reasonable regard for order and sightline if an open use the response not an open use permanent residence D will the proposed action produce noise vibration dust odor heater glare observable at lot lines and amounts clearly detrimental to the normal use of adjacent property the response no noise vibration dust odor heat or glare observable at the property and that's signed by vanen clber Emerson Barrow and Brenda Barrow and with it is a um site plan of the property is a copy of the list of abds with both um the Fitchburg side of the property and the lunenberg side were both notified and that's all Mr chairman thank you Le you're welcome and with that I would invite the applicant to come up see he would like to add anything or explain the situation good evening my name is aen C barus from 615 tonsen Street lenberg F fitbook 16 acres in L Looney BG 1.2 acres in fbook uh we run as a farm and we just finished building the new home and to get the occupancy for that I have to come to you all to ask to keep this or the house cuz eventually not anytime soon we'll be using for a help on a farm that's what I am here for okay thank you um that is this is this house in good repair the one that's there the I know you built a new one oh the one I'm leaving now no not the one you're living in the one that you're you just finish build there we just got inspect uh last week the final inspection I can only get my occupancy after I come to you guys I come to us and I cannot move in in there because I don't have the occupancy to get insurance okay because of the oneyear wait waiting period yes okay all right um that I'll turn it over to the board I was by there today and I your new house looks beautiful uh and the old house looks decent too you it is decent um it'll be nice for migrant workers or some other workers to stay there I think you know it's a nice opportunity rather than trailers yeah so I I honestly don't have any questions I got a question Mr chairman yes so you've lived how long have you lived at the property uh 11 years right and so the only reason you're before us is because you moved the property into a trust and that trust was created like uh back almost N9 months ago yeah no this is not the reason no no because I looked at the deed you were the there was a deed that was noted here on the application um but there was another deed back in 2012 so what I'm what I'm trying to tell you is that I didn't see a compelling reason for to Grant you the request that you have but you've owned the property since 2012 correct correct yeah but on the app a the deed and book and page number was back in 12 of last year so you must have you must have moved the house from your names into a trust right so you're the trustees now correct that occurred back in December of last year correct so that's why you're before us because it's not even though you've owned the property since 2012 you you created the trust back last year 9 months ago in December correct and so it's not a year now and now you're asking for relief from the one year waiting period correct it's not because the thrust is okay it's for the second building it's not because the oh is that for the second building yes yeah oh the first one right so the they're just finishing the newer building and they want to be able to move into the newer building but that's the reason why you have to wait a year correct no said you can't no just because it's true house on a property no two houses on the property now it's a two house on on the property and now you'd like to for us to Grant you permission to move into both houses use your main house and then the other one is an accessory house correct okay yeah okay all right thank you Mr chairman you're welcome David any question um I'm I'm all set thank Patrick any question um not that it matters but I I I kind of read it the same way as you it and it really it doesn't matter either way well he's owned the property since 2012 but the only reason he's here is because he's going to have two properties two hous on the same yeah two houses on the same property correct yeah yeah just for what it's worth it doesn't really matter like uh the building practice told me say you're going to be using this house to leave for somebody to leave in this house before the year I think not before April when the season start for farming right and he say you know with the new law is going to start be legal in Fe February you allowed to have two house on a property right I say but you still have to go in the front the Border we're not going to be using before March anyway so I'm sorry oh goe go ahead I ask you a question um so my only question I saw there was a hearing for Fitchburg where they did you already do that or I do what did you have a hearing with Fitchburg zoning board of appeals no I don't have to because the both oper it's in I saw like yeah buildings are in lunberg Drive driveway okay I saw the letter to the pitchburg board of appeals but yeah because the neighbors we have neighbors in Looney Borg and neighbors oh so that was just for the abutters list yes okay I got you okay follow that yep uh no that was all questions you're currently living in the existing structure yes correct was build in 199 19 1919 19 that's the original house yeah okay I I took a quick look at the property today looks very the new building for what I could see looked very nice thank you thank you Rich I have a question sure um are so you're and I'm sorry for my confusion but you're presently in your your plans are for you to personally move into the new building correct yes okay all right all right would the same have been the case if you would you couldn't rent it could could he have been letting somebody else use it can't get an occupancy permit is the problem and okay and I believe I'm not I'm pretty sure if what I read on the state what they just passed about uh accessory housing and the governor signed into law I don't think it takes effect until February of next year but that would allow this as a matter of right right I remember hearing about that yeah as well so okay and if he didn't need his occupancy permit before then he you know come come you know December it be a year and he could do it as a matter right too cor as of February third he could do it as a matter of right oh have we we did this application before the law was signed yeah right okay no more questions I will call for a uh I'll make a motion that we Grant a special permit for relief from um saying uh the law uh requiring one year to allow the person to uh occupy the new dwelling and very much also the U secondary dwelling on the property thank you very very much sir I'll second that Mr chairman I have a motion in a second I'll call vote hi hi hi I and I and with that um it is approved I do have to read some post findings to you the special permit is granted with a contingency that the petition complies with all licenses regulation statutes and ordinance of any and all applicable local state federal boards or a with jurisdiction over the premises the special permit is subject to a periodic review by the permit granting Authority or enforce when officer to ensure compliance with conditions no comp non-compliance to such conditions may result in revocation of this permit a copy of the board's decision shall be filed with the town clerk within 14 days any party agreed by the board's decision May appeal to Superior Court 20 days after the decision is filed with the to town clerk after certification by the town clerk that 20 days have elapsed since the decision was filed you should have it recorded in the registry of deeds no special permit shall take effect until it has been recorded with that all that thank you all wel good thank you see you and with that I believe we can go right into the second heing go ahead yeah I think you can just go right in we don't have this application is a different format so if I read it a little out of order that's why so the applicant is okay well the project is a construction of a new home within limits of previous home and previously submitted plans the applicant is Justin taugh of 12 Sunset Lane in lunenberg the project address is also 12 Sunset Lane in lunenberg and the applicable section of the code of lunberg is 250- 5.2 and 250- 5.3 the special permit questions and answers are as follows actually please describe how the proposed Act will prevent conditions that are injurious or dangerous to Public Health unduly hazardous because of traffic congestion danger of fire or explosion the applicant put not applicable uh number two please describe any material adverse effects of the on the land and buildings in the neighborhood or on the amenities of the neighborhood the applicant put not applicable please describe how the proposed use or activity will be operated with reasonable regard for order and sightlessness if an open use the response single family home to be updated please describe how the proposed action will reduce and or prevent noise vibration dust odor heater glare at the lot lines and amounts clearly detrimental to the normal use of adjacent property again uh not applicable and the additional information important to the application is looking to rebuild home in the same footprint of the previous home with small addition of square footage being added to the main house plans and layout are the same as a previously approved zba decision I have comments from the Board of Health dated August 6th 2024 the Board of Health doesn't have an issue with this proposal with the following conditions expansion of the structure can't result in an increase of sewage flow to the septic system floor plans of both buildings will be required prior to the issuance of a building permit and two the footprint of the buildings with the proposed expansion must comply with with the offset requirements in Title 5 the site must include all components on the of the on-site system there is also a copy of the previously granted um special permit for dimensional variation on April 22nd of 2021 there is a site plan that was also included with the last application there is a a floor plan of the house there are some renderings of the property and let see what else we have there is a copy of the list of abutters as well as the septic plan and I just had one comment that was given to me by the um Conservation Commission said that they would have to go before the Conservation Commission for an order of conditions and that's all Mr chairman Thank you Lisa you're welcome with that I invite the applicant up again good evening I'm Justin tuing out of 12 Sunset Lane um here seeking the dimensional variation of the property setback lines as well as the height um I screwed up and removed the foundation for as inspected um it wasn't sound and so I'm here because it's we have to file a new permit after speaking of Brian The Building Commissioner um and therefore here for the zba application again okay um I think just just to give a little history um you previous had requests for request for a special permit uh for a dimensional variation that was approved on April 14 2021 yes sir um it was in residential B District which requires 25t setback and um don't have to he year the setback was 17 the the 2021 request was granted for a small area to square off the garage requiring a 10-ft variation the house itself required an 8ft side yard setback and a 4.3 variation in height um the garage when I looked at it recently it looks like originally you asked to to uh just rebuild the garage Square it off it looks like now that's being used will you have you been living there is that like a residential home now no so the intent was we are living there yes just to be clear the intent was always to use that space for like a home office and gym setup um we were always going to remove a major portion of the house it's part of my screw up is I didn't realize procedurally one we went in front of the historical commission today and they approved the non Dem delay um and the second part of it was the level of demo our plans originally the design hasn't changed the layout hasn't changed um it was really my misstep not understanding the procedure so the intent was to be in the garage temporarily my wife my kid and then once the house is complete we'll move into the house and then that just becomes a gym and an office for our business okay thank you um I'm going to open it up to the board and they may have I I have a few questions so um and actually it's more for the board than for the applicant but you you did knock the house down correct without a without a permit yes so in my conversation with the Building Commissioner I mean do we even know where the existing Foundation was yes sir each step that's actually I brought Mr Steve Ballard from haen Ward the site surveyor we've marked it off each step along the way because obviously we looked for a variation in the setback like we wanted to make sure that we were on the property lines and we didn't want to rebuild outside of that we didn't want to be in a situation where we put in a new structure someone comes and Survey it and we're off like a foot or two but you but you know like when you when you knock the building down your grandfather I mean I may be incorrect but I thought the grandfather clause went away too right there is a there is one section that says that uh if you tear it down without permission from the zoning board of appeals it's considered a anded correct right but my understanding from talking to the building inp I had a question for him I said okay he knocks the building down he loses his grandfather Claus his his protection I mean he doesn't even need the I mean I asked him if he met all the the current setbacks and through the lot withd I haven't seen any anything like that do you meet all the requirements if if if you did knock it down and you lost your grandfather Claus he thought might be able to build it on that lot but I don't see how because in that zoning District you need 880,000 sare ft you only have 39,000 sare ft so I don't know how you could put the house back to where it should be um under the current zoning bylaw okay so there's that that portion of it and then I did look at the septic and the soil absorption that they provided the applicant provided but I was confused because on the plan on the sewer plan it referenced for sunsight Lane which must be your neighbor correct so there was an as built for that which said it was a four bedroomroom house but the soil absorption plan you sent us was for your property um at 14 is it 14 12 Sunset Lane and that had three beds so I was a little confused because the I was as I was looking at the the the sewage Disposal system I think we got the wrong plan because it's your neighbors unless something happened between 19 2007 and then you know when you did something over there no so when they my understanding is when we bought the property the septic had already been done the septic was able to have a four-bedroom house but it was only ever approved for a three-bedroom for whatever reason which is why we were going back for the same three-bedroom house okay I was because it says it says on the you know on the description it was four Sunset Lane for the sewage Disposal system but the soil absorption design had your property so I was a little confused about that um and I think I had one more question but I I'll let the other uh members talk and then I can come back to it I can find it so I mean M so so you you know where the existing Foundation was yeah we have we had what is it called Steve pinned pinned and it's still going to be a three bedroom correct yes if you would like to address it you can come up with a mic and address it as well if you if needed okay and so I I know what my other question was so have you have you so special permit that you got back in 2021 have you done any construction to either the house well obviously you demoed a house so you didn't do any construction but that we squared we squared off the garage so construction has begun it's just the garage and not the house because I was going to say that could have lapsed two years if you haven't done anything on either no we did the garage all right so that's irrelevant then I guess to that to that um okay Mr chairman I don't have any further questions just yet but I I would like to try to come back to to the fact that you know could be in a situation where you know he lost his grandfather rights you know to that property okay my question would have been or would be why did you tear down on the house without getting permission to do so knowing that you went through procedures to get height and setback requirements for your garage at the same time and working with an architect and an engineer who prob would have should have told you that you need a permit to demo it my complete misstep I've been running the project on my own and I'm not a general contractor it's been really difficult to get contractors this day right now and so part of it having a young kid and trying to move it forward the truth is I didn't know the intent in my mind like we wouldn't have been able to use the existing structure so the intent was to bring it down and reuse the foundation when they removed the house it was an old Fieldstone foundation and it was just falling down down that's really when I should have called the bill inspector and that's where I missed up and that's when Brian came in Brian has a lot more Hands-On than the previous person running that um so it's really completely my fault I own that thank you question Mr Mr chair um in part of the com the the note that we received from the uh Board of Health was uh a set of plans that would consist of both the garage the house and the garage um and you've already just mentioning that you're you're in the garage today so I would look as the garage has some type of room bedroom or some kind of room facility or it has at least uh I would you know um it has a to it has a bathroom of some sort yeah so when we applied originally in 2021 it was always going to have a bathroom I I printed it out I uploaded it today I have copies here if you want me to distribute them but we essentially have a storage Loft and then we framed um where the office would be inside of it okay so my concern then is is that you're proposing a three-bedroom house with only a three-bedroom septic and I would consider that room in the garage as a as a as another bedroom so I'm I'm not sure I would look at this the septic plan as being sufficed for the amount of bathrooms and the amount of people that you might have at that at that facility yeah my understanding is that we went through in 2021 the septic is capable of handling four bedrooms we never went for that because we're not looking to have the house be bigger the intent was always to have the house be updated and just more Moder in the same footprint I understand but you have set it up you have set it up today where the garage is able to be used as a whether it's a guest room or some kind of room with a bathroom a bathroom in it so to me that would be considering that a a bedroom uh a bedroom and unfortunately the plans that we've received are only for a three-bedroom not a four-bedroom septic system so I don't know I can't tell I'm not a a I'm not a uh you know septic engineer so I don't I it to me it looks like you only have enough trenches for a three-bedroom usually a four-bedroom would have a fifth trench and um that's why I just question the if the septic is able to handle the amount of uh possible flow that it's going to it could receive based on the the what you're proposing right now when they approved it in 2021 that bathroom was there I don't know that matters I'm just that structure is not going to be used as like a an extra bedroom but that's when we put the bedroom when we put that garage plant together originally in 2021 we we included the bathroom because we were always going to put it in there so was the garage hooked up to the septic both the the house and the garage hooked up to the septic yeah it was always it was hooked up that way when I had that when we we got the house okay was always tied in whoever did the work when the last renovation the major one I don't know when when that happened prior to my ownership but they were all connected through the systems under the main driveway and it is only temporary because we're building the house it's really not going to be used as a space to live in um I noticed the something in the conditions from uh 2021 was the expansion of the structure cannot result in an increase of sewage flow to the septic system floor plans of both buildings will be regulated to the issuance of a building permit so in other words before you can actually start to do anything in my opinion you have to go before nooba Board of Health and request expansion to a four bedroomroom home you have three that you're requesting for the house one for an auxiliary building which you call a garage for your office which has a bedroom or in a b or a a a room or something to be used as an office and a bathroom so that means it's it's for areas when they originally improved it in 2021 it wasn't an issue I understand now it's it's apples and dump trucks I get that I'm just saying when we did it in 2021 the intent and the design hasn't changed and and sir I'm not M chair I'm not saying that the design can't be you know is not good or not it's not up to to us as the board members to judge to be able to to do the engineering ourselves um I don't feel comfortable I wouldn't feel comfortable with that however it is specified that is for a three-bedroom and I have that same thing I purchased a home it had here in lunenberg it had six bedrooms in it but that had gotten appr six bedrooms had gotten approved it only had a three-bedroom septic but it was still my responsibility to take care of it when I when I purchased the house type type of thing to fix that um so it's just one of those things I look you know the fact that that other room the room above the garage the room above the garage I know the plan is to be in office however I could also see that as a guest dwelling area which would I would I would consider a a bedroom and I would look to be able to have something that would say that this the plans that you have done are good are good enough for a four bedroom on in there and that's just just my my thoughts on it I don't you know the rest of folks out there any other question did the building inspector he didn't write anything right he didn't and have we had I mean I know we've had a situation before where people have come in and knocked down their their their property right but I think if I remember correctly those could be situated and still meet the current B I guess I'm hung up on the fact that you know we have an applicant who's knocked something down we we have had cases where they've come before us and they did need other uh setback setback um I will say even under Bandit you still they still have rights I don't can't find a section right now but they still have rights it doesn't mean yeah yeah no I don't I know but I'm wondering now if there's an opportunity are you planning to submit the septic that you sent to us are you planning to submit that to the Board of Health to satisfy their requirements that you provide plans and number of bedrooms and so forth and again uh the Board of Health did uh send a their comments on the uh August 6 and I think we still read them in there uh and they're saying they don't have an issue with this proposal with the following conditions and they have two conditions it's in the application right so they do have two and we can make that a condition of our special fir yeah that they do this and uh any any other condition there you want to add to it as well all right one last one last question um so on your application you had you know they asked you if you had additional information important to the application you responded looking to rebuild the home in the same footprint of the previous home so we've established that you have meets and Bounds for that previous location of that that Foundation with a small addition of square footage being added to the main house so that sounds to me like okay you want the same footprint but you're asking for a little bit more than what the footprint is is that correct no the footprint is actually I mean and maybe I let Steve speak to it the footprint is actually going to be smaller the house but being literal because of the way the property was located the basement is getting extended roughly like 10 or 12T out by the same width the actual footprint of where the structure is is going going to be smaller than what was there before because we removed the lower area that was attached to the deck so it's going to be more condensed okay so the but the foundation is the foundation this Rubble found that you had is being altered well it's not there anymore right so but the footprint of that Rubble Foundation is not going to be the same footprint as you're going to look for next no it is going to be the same oh okay because you just mentioned how the basement was going to be extended 10 ft but the because it's a the the I don't know if you're familiar with the property but there's like a significant grade change from where it is so the foundation itself part of it is in the hill and the part that's getting extended is not so the foundation I guess when you label Foundation the frost wall will be beyond the existing but it's going to be wooden framed the actual structure that's extended beyond what was there combo of wood and steel exactly is the foundation going to be the same same is the foundation going to be on the same spot as the rubble Foundation was before yes okay and there're I believe I submitted the foundation plan itself there's two pillars that go in um to support the floor above it where it's getting extended okay all right that's that was a you know you you just you kind of said that how it's extending you keep you use the word extending and that's really the the first floor is extending the the basement is not right okay all right so you're not you're not expanding the footprint of where the previous house was no sir okay I think he should provide us with a drawing or some it doesn't have to be engineered but he should provide us with a drawing of what it was in the past what it will be in the future and proof that he's going to go to nooba Board of Health and um like I say we can condition that I understand that but there's got to be some signif significant proof from him that he's following through on do ever he did yeah sir we we we submitted the existing conditions that was surveyed by Haley Ward and then we also submitted the plan where the existing the New Foundation will be laid out with the Pierce that's I submited that and uploaded so Mr chair it's on on the letter from the Board of Health it does mention that the expansion of the structure can't result in increase of the sewage flow to the septic system floor plans of both buildings will require prior to the issuance of a building permit so I'm sorry did you men you have the floor plans for the garage right now I have them with me and they were uploaded to the website oh okay because I don't remember we call we don't so I think we only got the house plans correct up until today the garage is on there I mean I can give you what I have printed out no it's okay I just I'm just I'm looking at the plans that you have we have here I'm just going to see where the garage for the new permit I did the house because the old the garage was on the original one right so so we're only looking so this stuff right here is the only the house correct the stuff that I'm looking at here that's the house not the garage okay that's right right because otherwise we looked at it was two three bedrooms and that was confusing to me I looked at that's why I originally had that one understand I looked at I tried to upload all of the files to each of the different ones to try and be consistent I may have missed that one one of them shows right I didn't even know what that was going to be a three bedroom as well you know that's where they're living right right yeah can I ask can I ask one question um so if I remember three years ago which is a lot for me um this was you started taking something down and was there it's kind of in my head was there a room that was like a porch that someone might have turned into a house that when you started to demo it everything fell is this the same when you were demoing it first was there a no okay I'm mixing it up um so just to clarify so you're in here right now yeah can I pass these up is that and this and this is not started yet here in here this is not started this office and the upper level okay this is okay yeah so um than you okay Mr chair I would definitely look at this as being a uh something that with the ability to be a fourth bedroom and I would love and I would would like to see you know I know my personally I would like to see the septic plants be specified that it's capable of doing four bedrooms I don't think I can make a especially with the kitchenet in there okay second do you have that with you tonight do you say do you have that plan with you accept it this I only what I uploaded I didn't that it's it's it's on here we received the soil absorption plan there were two there was one of the layout of the existing system that shows the pump tank cuz I have a pump up septic yes yeah so well there's only one that talks about the amount of bedrooms that it's designed for and on the plan this is the soil absorption plan which is where you put the uh what it's designed for and it says estimate hydraulic loading three bedrooms is what it specifies here now I realized the tank size could be used for a four bedroom but it specified that this is been designed for a three-bedroom on the whoever uh whoever The Architects were the engineers were which is the intent of what we you're using it for I understand what you're saying it this if with a kitchen at that's a four bedroom and you know the only thing I mean yeah even have the closet so I would consider you know there's a closet in there as well so I don't know what your you know that's going to be a definition for me of a bed but that's really up to the Board of Health right there number set the bedrooms right yeah we don't control that no we don't no but he's not but you're not going to you're not we can look at that certainly and it can you know be involved with our decision but uh we basically can turn that over like I say since the uh Board of Health is already sent comments they certainly know about it and they're certainly going to look at it and he has to go to them if we can condition it to make sure that it actually complies and if you guys want to put something in there you know we're only putting in one one from this location three from this or whatever you're you're configuring you can put that excuse me can I interject there is a building permit filed for this property and that memo from carara from the Board of Health that's what she put on the building permit okay so she won't move the permit forward Brian won't move the permit forward until there's a decision of this board and that has been satisfied yeah I'm fine with that if that's but I I do think you should look at that because I'm looking at the soil absorption design right now that's your property but the the the septic that we were given is number four Sunset Lane correct so it's not even IR relevant to your property this why I'm asking about that that's why I need to use the computer so I can see what you got up but uh Mr chairman you know I I don't know if anybody else is done I mean we got a kind of a situation here um you know the applicant knocked the the property down I really don't have a problem with um the meets and Bounds if they're going to put it back into the into the foundation where it was existing if they can prove that and I'm going to condition that I think I think one thing we you we can condition is that it does comply now the other one had a height that we know of because he had we gave him a set amount that we were leaving of we know he had a side D because we gave him relief from that right so that pretty well positions the house and that's something that the building inspector can check and make sure that he does maintain which means that it has to be in the same location yeah I mean there are I mean there's plenty of plans on record by by third party you know Engineers that would locate where that property was so and we did have Haley and Ward do that prior a new one you had the a new engineer come out and and redo it yeah that's what that's what I have Mr voler for so no Dimensions have changed since the 2021 permit correct no [Music] sir any have question questions any of you none you okay um would anyone from the public like to make any comments questions I'm Steve Val from haly Ward and we did the original work for the property and when Justin was starting to do the work on the property we came out Stak everything out to make sure that it was going to go in accordance with the plant that was approved before so we have the exact location of where it should be and where it's going to be replaced and the intent for the garage was not a I understand the room you could interpret as a bedroom but the plans don't show it as a bedroom they're just temporarily staying there while they construct rather than bringing a trailer on to the site type of thing um but we can and will be monitoring where everything goes to make sure that it's in accordance with the the previous okay approval anyone else like to speak we have a couple onbody on Zoom there's a couple on Zoom um ask them to raise their hand raise your hand or just turn your video on I get everyone on the screen so if you do want to make a comment just turn your video on and I'm seeing nothing none no nobody okay thank you uh with that I would ask uh for a motion then Mr chairman I'll make a motion that we approve the special permit dimensional variations on the following conditions one that um the applicant uh comply with the Board of Health requirements number two that they submit a revised engineering plan and number three um that the property is located exactly where it was before Y and in the same location with the same variances that the same Varian is the special permit back in 2021 right and and also that you have to go you know have to go to the Conservation Commission so but we're outside of the 100 we're outside of the 100 foot barrier we're outside of the 100 ft from the lake um I think that they will require it to Rel look at it her note said project will need filing with cons Conservation Commission if limit of work Falls within the 100 foot buffer zone okay and you beyond that we're outside of that completely all right okay we have a motion um I I'll second the motion have a motion in a second I'll ask for a vote Jim I I I and I and I sorry and with that it's granted so now I I go in front of the Board of Health is that how that works or what's that procedurally what happens um I can ask after as well well Le had pointed out it's it's going to be on your permits which means have to get that they have to sign off okay so if you submitted this floor plan with the building permit the Board of Health will see it okay and then she can comment directly with you on the portal okay and and she's requiring both it says there that you need to submit both both the house and the garage for the board he okay okay and I do have to read the uh special permit post decision instructions the special permit is granted with the contingent say that the petition complies with all licenses regulations statutes and ordinances of any and all applicable local state federal boards or agencies with jurisdiction over their premise the special permit is subject to a periodic review by the permit granting Authority or the enforcement officer to ensure compliance with any conditions non-compliance to such conditions may result in revocation of this permit a copy of the board's decision shall be filed with the time clerk within 14 days any party agreed by the board's decision May appeal to Superior Court 20 days after the decision is filed with the town clerk after certification by the town clerk that 20 days have elapsed since the decision was filed you should have it recorded in the registry of deeds no special permit shall take effect until it has been recorded and uh the special permit will else within two years unless substantial use of instruction has commenced with that uh good luck with your new room good luck um we're going to we're going to stay on for a little bit I want to discuss um fees should we should we leave zoom on for this or we can't vote on it tonight because uh we'll vote on the next heing but we can talk about it still open so I can you want me to yeah you can you can just so the the fees for the zoning board applications are $100 and at the abutters list exceeds 12 it's $2 over and above for each person we notify we've realize that with the rising cost of the advertising and and postage that we can't the $100 filing fee doesn't really cover all the costs and paying me so moving forward um Alan and I Alan I spoke with Town Council and you can't um raise fees for Revenue purposes so the Building Commissioner and Alan and I have been talking about it and you know to move forward rather than increase the fees for for you know keep the fees same for both commercial and residential property $100 fee the applicant will pay for the advertising upfront so that would be on the applicant okay the fees to the um lunenberg Ledger it's $40 per ad and each ad goes in the paper two subsequent weeks prior to the hearing so we're actually losing money because that with the cost of postage um the applicant will be responsible for providing the ab butter envelopes a fix with Prepaid postage so that fee goes away and the applicant moving forward after we vote on this at the next meeting because I did the agenda but it wasn't posted so we can only discuss it and not vote on it tonight um we have online permitting the zoning board applications are online very few people use it but we can all look at everything everybody here and anybody um if they want to look at the application they don't have to come to me they don't have to go to the town clerk they can look online and see everything that was submitted so if an application came in you know once this whole application is set up the applicant will apply they will prepay online to The Ledger and there's a way that conservation does it the applicant will provide the prepaid envelope so if there's 30 people on the list they provide just an envelope with a stamp on it or however they want to do it and then I will notify the abutters um you know from our office so we know everybody's notified and click all the boxes so that's what's proposed to vote on for the next meeting so if anybody I guess if anyone has any questions uh first Mr chair I I like I I like the idea of something I I know I've done that through the conservation where I ended up having to pay for everything and I there was actually just a list of I was able I had to actually go to the post office with a list and then they charge me whatever when I got there so that's that's fine I I like that I I'm wondering if we can add on this thing because of that port hole maybe there's a way of trying to talk to the town about like a like a tablet instead of us killing all these trees um attack and printing everything out because that way we'd be able to just use the port we'd all be able to use the portal while was sitting here as well for all the documents and it would probably save the town money at the in the long run it's we know how much paper we generate as a group that's a good point I'll bring that up I I like the idea um the question I have and I know you can't it's not a revenue generating but I mean is there I mean how long has the fee been $100 I've been with you 26 years and it has never changed so I think we should try to work with c to see not that it's money generating but I think just a little bit more I mean the cost of doing business has changed in 20 years so I would say even if we even even if we decide that maybe commercial is a little bit more than residential but I think we should bump it up just a little bit even I mean not to to make money but I mean nothing stays the same for 20 years right your your cost your the cost of you has changed 20 years I'd like to hope so I'd like to hope so so I would I would I mean the only the only thing I would ask is maybe go back to council and see what could we charge for a like is it 125 I mean we got to get it something a little bit more right and I think it only it only bolsters you know uh the fact that have this space and that equipment in there there's cost associated with yeah I think the zoning board budget in totality is maybe $3500 oh so it's it's mostly payroll and postage yeah and the very few supplies because I do both jobs so I sit at the same desk and I use the same computer if I retire and it's two people um now that it's online it's so much more streamlined Y and everybody you know the fire chief can look at the applicant application without me physically giving him this package um the police chief and I can add or delete people yeah the the sewer department will look at it the water department will look at it so any questions that you see um for instance the fire chief says well wait a minute this plan doesn't work he can communicate with the applicant and the board and we can all see the comments so instead of me printing what the Board of Health says and what the Conservation Commission says it's right in front of you agree I said it's it gets confusing I even this one we had know there was three emails to to to look through and print out if we wanted to bring all that information with us I mean that it's it's not worth it to I you know you're making eight copies that's that's a lot of paper and a lot of time for of your time too that's just I agree that this makes sense and I would I do agree also that we should re revisit the fees for commercial right we we can look at it part part of the reason that we went this way with the down paying the envelopes and all that stuff um he said like Lisa said you just can't make Revenue right I understand and I but I think we should raise it somehow you know without rais without I think I think maybe what we got to do is look a little deeper and see what our average cost of not not what we're going to put them on but what it actually does cost do it cost $120 $150 so if I if so if each hearing if it if it takes me an hour to do the decision I mean some are much easier than others yeah right so you know by the time I get everything printed and you know do the abutters and how much of my time right I suppose would be a good but I I looked I did all the surrounding Town towns um of equal size the fees aren't exorbitant they really aren't I mean the highest one I saw was $300 for a final that was that was my next question to have you looked at and obviously you have so I I I think everything's great I think we should just try to go back and see what we could get for commercial or residential look even if it goes up it wouldn't go up significantly yeah that's fine but I mean it should go up a little bit and then well Brian's building the this section of the portal I mean it was built originally but people don't use it but he's adding so many more features that they would literally be the person can't move forward to the next step until everything is received and paid for right which it saves a lot of well you know you didn't have your list of ABS but I'll put you on the schedule but then then you don't CH then I'm chasing yes in this way here it's it's right there I mean he showed me this afternoon um you know what do you think of this and how does this work for you and it's amazing so excellent thank you for doing that I know uh Hans asked the same thing was basically um could you give us at least an oral uh statement of what the area towns are that are comparable to us for their fees I I didn't bring it with me I didn't I didn't that but you know they're they're about 100 150 but a lot of them that's what they're doing to offset they're paying for the add up the providing the the envelope they're not going to figure it out I said to Brian I would rather have the a blank envelope with a stamp on it yes and make sure that I can double check that everybody has been notified and we just received an application uh last Thursday and there was 71 of butters on it right so for the $100 filing fee plus over 12 I think the filing fee was uh $218 so that's and we did $1 $100 in Postage and stamps basically 69 cents a piece yeah yeah 69 cents holy for 71 pieces of mail and going up and you know if it's continued so that's you know payroll and yeah sure yeah I think and then re notification and he's building it so the hearing notice IS F able do you know what I mean the sections of the bylaw and then he will in you know put in a letter it will be right there of his um zoning opinion okay perfect so it's just it's very comprehensive yeah I I mean I like I just went through it in another in another County and you can't imagine what I went through to try to get a building permit but you know compared to what you do here and it believe me it was a lot more than it was a lot more than 100 $ you know for everything but that's Florida well that's any that's a different town you know even that when I went to the zoning board it was a lot more than $100 good job yeah I think it's good pass cost on to the some of the cost on the applicant and see if we can raise the fees a little bit I think it's a good idea comp and an online portal is even better but the other cities and towns and I'll bring that presentation at the next meeting and then we can vote on it that's why that's got to me tonight so that we can address them the next meeting and take a vote yeah good thank thank you for doing yeah okay the only other thing I have is you know I wanted to say it publicly at a meeting um we received this um email and I know you all have it but uh Steve DUIs sent this email on August 1st Lisa Patty and I have sold our house here in lunenberg and we'll be moving out of state later this month thus I must resign my shortlived position as an alternate zba member I enjoyed being involved in local government and most appre appreciate the courtesies you extended best wishes to you and the entire zba that's signed by Steve D thank him for a service so do you want to just accept that I guess yeah yeah we accept that no you can't move get back here should we um accept it with regrets and uh send him a notice we do yeah I mean he was yeah this this Elman don't do that but I'll make a motion that we send make him an offer he can't refuse you know just send a notice and thank him for his service thank you and uh regrets and good luck in his future endeavors I will do that but he has to pay for postage I think we can cover that one send it Thea email take it out of our budget yes any anything else gentlemen I make a motion we adjourn second all in favor I I I with that we are adjourned can I stop Zoom now yes okay