Use your hands. >> Okay, >> we're good to go. >> 7:00. Um, I'd like to welcome you to Lunberg Zone and Board of Appeals. Um, I will tell you how the meeting's going to proceed. However, first I have to give
you a notification that the hearing is being recorded in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law. Please be advised that this meeting will be broadcast live through local access cable on Facebook live on the uh
Facebook public page and will be able to be found on the Lunberg Public Access YouTube channel within 24 hours after the meeting and the way the hearing will proceed. Uh first I want to introduce the board to
my left Lisa Norman and board secretary. I'm Alfred Grall, James Bzakausski, David Blat, Patrick Callahan, Tony Niccastro, and Don Gernie. The way the hearing will proceed is Lisa will read
the application and any other subun submitted communications. The applicant will have the opportunity for comments on the application or submission of additional documents. You'll please come forward to the mic and give your name and address. Board
members will have the opportunity to ask questions that they might have on the application. While you're at the mic, there will be a public comment period. You will please come forward to the mic, give your name and address, and address all comments and questions to the board.
And with that, I would ask Lisa to please read the petition. Okay. This is an application for a special permit, Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 48, Section 9, Zoning Board of Appeals. The name and address of the applicant is Matthew Glenny of 55 Valley Road in
Lunenburgg seeking a special permit to construct a 28x 28 garage with an access accessory dwelling unit above the questions and answers to the um four
special permit criteria. Please describe how the proposed action will prevent conditions that are injurious or dangerous to public health, unduly hazardous because of traffic conditions, danger of fire or explosion. The reply is none. Please describe any material
adverse effects on the value of land and buildings in the neighborhood or on the amenities of the neighborhood. Uh the reply is none. Please describe how the proposed activity use or activity will be operated with reasonable regard for order and unsight insightlessness if an open use not applicable.
Um there's a determination letter from the building commissioner. Um his comments the use as a detached accessory dwelling unit is allowed by right per per Massachusetts general law chapter 48.
However, the building height must still comply with the local bylaws in residence A, residence B, or outlying district. The vertical dis distance between any point on the roof of a building, whether main or accessory, and any point on the side or reel lines of its lot, shall not exceed the horizontal
distance between the same two points by more than 5T. The height along the rear exceeds the maximum height by 16.5 ft and along the sideline by 11.5 ft. I have received
all the abutters were notified two weeks prior to tonight. There were building plans attached and a site plan. We did receive a revised site plan tonight from the applicant and the board of health had these concerns which will probably
be addressed at the time of the building permit. Um she had no comments at the time. This is Carla Old Jars. She is our border health agent. The following information will be needed in order for the board of health to consider endorsement of building permits. Floor
laid up floor layout of the existing house. A two compartment septic tank or two tanks in series will be required. Title 5 inspection report if an increase in design flow is proposed. The septic system will need to be upgraded in full compliance with title 5 to accommodate
for increase in flow. Alternately, a septic system in full compliance could serve the accessory dwelling unit. The plan shows two bedrooms proposed in the accessory dwelling unit and according to the assessor's records, there are three bedrooms in the existing house. The existing septic system is designed for
three bedrooms. With this information, the existing system will not accommodate for the increase in flow. I recommend contacting an engineer to see if it is feasible to expand the existing system or to design a separate fully compliant septic system system to serve the ADU.
and Matthew Glenny responded. He's loaded the new septic plans and he's working with Mazden Engineering. But I just wanted to add that as a side. >> And I received two letters in hand tonight to whom it may concern. This
letter is from Katherine and Thomas Sharbar of 45 Valley Road Lunberg abutters to the Glenny property. Matt has informed us that he plans on constructing a garage on his property. Matt has shown us the plot plans and pictures of the proposed construction. After discussing this with him, we have
no concerns, issues, or objections with him pursuing this matter. If you have any questions, you may contact us and their phone number and that is signed by Katherine and Thomas Shbar. Also, um this is from John C. Jones of 50 Road regarding the proposed
construction of a garage in ADU at 55 Valley Road. I have reviewed the plans for the construction of a garage in ADU that Menny is proposing for his property at 55 Valley Road. I have no objection to this project as proposed and would support the granting of a special permit allowing him to proceed with
construction. Sincerely, John C. Jones. And that's all, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, please. >> You're welcome. >> And with that, I would invite the applicant to come up to the mic. >> Hello. Uh Matthew Bunny, 55 Valley Road. >> Thank you. You can you can add whatever
you would like to it, but I know you said there's a change on here. >> There's a slight change. There was a miscommunication with the certified plot plan. He put the building as 28x 28. He had a copy of the building plans, but didn't add the stairwell to the rear. So, it shows the actual 28x 28 building
at the rear lot line to only be at 5 ft, but the actual rear wall of the building will be at 9 ft. The edge of the the outside edge of the stairwell would be at the 5 foot mark. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, >> do you have any anything else you would
like to add or >> I think it's No, I mean I have a small lot. I'm trying to do with what I can with it. Um, yeah. >> That's what a half acre lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's 150 by 150 by >> Okay. And uh where the shed's going of course is going way back in the back corner.
>> The shed has already been moved across the Is that what you said? >> All right. >> The garage is going in that back corner. Yeah. It's pretty much the only place on the property that is feasible to put it. the septic system pretty much takes up the rest of the >> Okay. And a lot of why you're putting that is part of that because of the
septic system where you're gonna have to place it when you >> Yeah, I believe there's plans attached for the expansion. The leechfield sits to the left of the house. So, that's already there. It's a pump system. The tanks are directly in the backyard. I don't there's very limited space to put
the garage anywhere else. And there's an existing gravel driveway down the side of the house. So, it just it just makes sense to place it there. Okay. All right. Um I'm going to open it up to the board. Any questions? >> So, I I did have a question on the
septic. I don't I didn't really notice a septic plan in the uh permit in the uh in the application at all. >> I thought I uploaded it. Not great with computers, but I might have I might have messed it up. There was two separate septic plans. Um
there was a a we were looking at options to make it a one-bedroom ADU. At the end of the day, we did decide to go with a two-bedroom, and I do have plans for both a four-bedroom system and a five-bedroom. We are going to go with a five-bedroom. I have the systems in my email if you if you need it, but I do have plans drawn for a fivebedroom
system. >> So, you have already perked the land. You know that the land you know that the uh the area for the septic is going to support a five >> uh Marsden drew the plans and has already he has all the numbers and data on that. It's already been uh it's an expansion of an existing system, not a new system. So,
>> so is that part I mean, you know, that should be part of this permit when you right apply. >> I I >> would think Mr. Chair. >> Well, yeah, that would come under the board of health. >> Board of Health. Okay. >> And my engineer is working with her as well. I don't know if he's contacted her directly yet, but I have a copy of the
plans and he's supposed to be contacting her to to have everything squared away. So, >> okay. >> As far as that goes, >> right. And I I took a drive by and I understand it. So, not a not the It's a pretty dense area. Um um my concern is is how close this is actually to the
neighbor. Not on on your if I'm looking at your house, not to the left, but to the right, the neighbor on the right, how how close the shed is. It's this this garage is um is the reason for the location basically. So you're trying to fit it as much on your lot as you can.
>> Well, I mean I I can't I can't build it off the lot, so I got to put it where I can put it. And there's there's nowhere else to put it. There's a septic system. So, this I'd be on top of the septic system if I moved it forward and in. It comes. >> I mean, it looks like from I'm looking at your plans that you have at least the
good um could at least the uh the rear the rear the rear you could at least uh you don't really need the relief. You can move that forward. >> There's going to on the new septic plans I have to add a tank cuz there needs to be two tanks in series. Is that the existing septic that you're looking at? >> That's the only thing I have is >> Okay. Yeah. So, that's the certified
plot plan which just has the existing septic on it. There's going to be an additional tank as per the board of health. So, I have to put a separate tank in that back corner beside the existing septic tank. And they're all going to feed into the
>> So, they're in series. So, both tanks will run into a single chamber, then into another chamber, and then into the pump chamber, which then pumps to the leechfield. Correct. >> Yeah, it's been fun. >> So, there's very limited space on the property. Do you have to expand the
septic um >> leechfield? Leech field. >> Yeah, like I said, I thought I had I I thought I had uploaded at least one of the variations of the plan. I believe it was a fourbedroom plan. I do have uh in my email a fivebedroom system plan and it will fit.
>> So, >> so you have three bedrooms in the existing correct. You're going to have two in this one >> in the ADU. >> Okay. You originally put three, didn't you? >> I put >> Oh, maybe >> no. Three in the existing, two for the ADU above. Yeah. Yeah. So it'll be a five total. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> And you have town water, >> correct? Yes. >> Any other questions from >> as to the first part of your question though? The lot line to the right looking at my house there. The lot line is is close, but his his property is
well over I'd say close to 100 ft away. His actual building. There's no building in my rear like abuing my line. That is >> understand. It's just it's just that his yard is not that large either. Correct. And there's a structure now >> as close as it could be to your to his yard as possible.
>> Correct. Yeah. >> Um which you know I don't I don't know if they're here but >> he it's a rental property. I have reached out to him previously. I never got responses. >> I noticed that. I saw that the uh the uh address was New Hampshire. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's been rental for a while. I have tried to correspond with
him um just you know about trees and everything else. I don't usually hear back from. So, >> okay. >> And the and the reason for the stairs I I didn't get it. I'm just I thought the stairs were going to be on the left of the building. I'm seeing now that the stairs are in the rear of the building. >> There's stairs on the left of the
building. There needs to be two exterior egresses because I'm going to have it as a uh completely separate unit from the garage. There'll be no access to the above apartment from the interior of the garage. So, to so I have to put a stairwell to the rear and a stair a stairwell to the left side of the
garage. >> All right. You're already proposing that this building is an extra uh 4 ft away from the lot line lot. >> The rear the rear wall itself. So that height calculation is is based on the rear wall. The rear wall
would be 4 ft further forward. The stairwell will be at the 5T setback. >> Okay. Now I'm just going by the plans you've given us. >> Yes. Yes, I understand. >> That's showing only five feet. >> Yeah. I tried to update I >> I had a bit of an issue with my uh
>> yeah I tried to just draw out to explain so >> I had an issue with the surveyor and I've reached out to him multiple times to have it adjusted and I had this meeting already. I'm here I'm going to have someone site the property again. I just haven't had time to do that. So
but the rear wall of the building will be at 9 ft. The stairwell will be at it's a 42 inch stairwell off the rear of the building. Right. Not stairwell, stairway. I understand. >> And that outside would be at the five foot mark or further forward than that. It's a 42 I left for 48 in, you know,
added to that. >> So you're saying the uh 16 ft relief is based on that 9 ft. >> It's not. It's based on a 5ft set back. >> Okay. So you're looking for a relief of only 12 ft. However you calculate it with your and I don't know how you do it with
exterior stairwells if it's the same calculation as a wall or that's a that's you know more in your court than mine but yes essentially there's there's a slight difference because the wall itself is further away from the lot line at the rear.
>> Okay, >> if that makes sense. Sorry. >> I no further questions. >> Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. If there's no other questions, I'll open it up to the public. >> Would anyone from the public like to
speak? >> Seeing none, I'll bring it back to the >> Mr. Chair. I do I do have um the So, so for this for this ADU, I I'm assuming that it's the possibility of it could be a rental. >> It will be a rental. Yes, >> it will be a rental. So, where is the
proposed parking? >> It does. There is plenty of parking, but under the ADU bylaw, I believe I only need one space. There's six spark parking spots in the front. There's the gravel driveway to the side, and obviously there'll be a driveway up to the garage doors. So, yeah, that'll all
be maintained. There's already >> But the garage will be for you. I use >> correct. Correct. Yes. Correct. >> Yeah, it'll be completely separate unit. Yeah. >> Okay.
We good. I'll ask one more time public. Anybody? And nobody. Okay. I'll bring it back to the board. Someone would like to make a motion. I'll make a motion that we grant the um request for a special permit with a
variation for the dimensional variations as requested. uh provided that um all boards are accommodated with their procedures and so forth.
>> Yeah, that they'll all be copied. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> I have a motion and a second. I'll take a vote. I >> I >> I
>> and I with that uh the height uh is granted. Um I do have to redo the post decision instructions. The special perman is granted with the contingency that petitioner complies with all licenses, regulations, statutes,
ordinances of any and all applicable local, state, federal boards or agencies with jurisdiction over the premises. The special permit is subject to a periodic review by the permit granting authority or the enforcement officer to ensure compliance with conditions.
Non-compliance to such conditions may result in a revocation of the permit. A copy of the board's decision shall be filed with the town clerk within 14 days. Any party agreed by the board's decision may appeal to superior court 20
days after the decision is filed with the town clerk. After certification by the town clerk that 20 days have elapsed since the decision was filed, you should have it recorded in the registry of deeds. No special permit shall take effect until it has been recorded and
the special permit shall lapse within 2 years unless substantial use or construction has commenced. With that, good luck with reality. >> Thank you very much. Okay. Yeah.
>> Just in case anybody needs close up. Just want to see what the bad is supposed to be. There's no demand. >> That's 20 houses once they come over. >> Okay. And with that, you ready? >> I'm ready. >> You're ready. With that, uh, we said if
you would read the applicant. >> The next petition tonight is an application for a special permit, Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 48, Section 9, Zoning Board of Appeals. The name and address of the applicants are Daniel and Rachel Bracket, 850 New West Towns and Road in Lunenburgg, seeking a
special permit pursuant to zoning bylaw section 250-4.1H6 town houses. The proposed action has not begun. Basis of this application is found in the following section of the Lunberg zoning bylaw. Section 25504-1H6.
Street address of the property is 850 852 and 860 New Towns and Road. Assesses map five parcels three, four and five. Name and address of each holder of legal title to the land which is the subject of this case is Daniel and racial
bracket 850 New West Towns and Road in Lunenburgg. The deed is recorded in western Northern District Registry of Deeds book 5111 pages 18 36 and 38 recorded January 8th 2004. The question and answer portion of the
application. Please describe any material adverse effects on the value of land and buildings in the neighborhood or on the amenities of the neighborhood. The reply, the proposed residential development will likely increase the assessed value of the property. As such, we expect the proposed development to
have a positive effect on land values in the neighborhood. B. Please describe how the proposed use or activity will be operated with reasonable regard for order and sightliness of an open use. The reply the proposed project is abudded by a town forest and
conservation land on the Lunberg Fitchburg town line. The proposed town homes were set approximately 500 ft off new west towns and road minimum and will comply with the dimensional zoning setbacks defined in the bylaw for zoning for outlying zoning district. Please
describe how the proposed action will reduce and/or prevent noise, vibration, dust, odor, heater, or glare >> observable at the lot lines and amounts clearly detrimental to the normal use of adjacent properties. As mentioned in the previous response, the proposed project is abed by the Willard Brook State
Forest on in West Towns and Road Conservation Area. The proposed town houses will be constructed approximately 500 ft away from a road and in compliance with the zoning setbacks defined in the bylaw. A vegetated buffer will remain along the property lines to provide screening for the proposed
development. Given the nature of the proposed project, the proposed development is not expected to produce significant noise, vibration, dust, odor, heat, or glare at the property lines. The applicant intends to make filings with the board of health, the septic permits, Lunberg Planning Board,
storm water and common driveway special permit, and the Lunberg Conservation Commission order of conditions for the proposed project. Okay. Three. >> This is um an addendum or >> a letter >> with the application to whom it may
concern. This letter has been prepared on behalf of Daniel and Rachel Bracket for a zoning determination request filed by this office for a proposed project at 850 New West Towns and Road in Lunberg. The applicants currently reside at 250 should be 850 New Towns and Road and
also own 252 oh I could be wrong. 252 and 260 New Towns and Road. I believe that should be >> okay. That's what I thought. 850 New West Towns and Road. Also 852 and >> 860.
>> The road immediately adjacent to the 860 New West Towns and Road property. The properties at 852 and 860 New Towns and Road are currently vacant and wooded and the proposed project will occur entirely on these two parcels. The project involves a subdivision of
the parcel into four lots and the construction of a five-unit townhouse on each lot. A common driveway is proposed to service all four lot which will be constructed in compliance with section 256.4C7 of the Lunberg zoning bylaw. Each town home will be served by an on-site sewage
disposal system and well the property is biseected by the Lunberg Fitchburg town line and as such the ANR plan for the proposed subdivision will require endorsement by both the Fitchburg and Lunberg planning board. Preliminary re review of the attached plan by the Fitchburg building department has
determined that the proposed lots must comply with the dimensional requirements set forth in the Fitchburg zoning by. As such, the proposed lots have been designed to conform to both Fitchburg and Lunberg zoning bylaw. The construction of the proposed driveway will require work within the 100 ft of
bordering vegetated wetlands that exist on the property. The portion of the proposed work will be jurisdictional to the conservation commission and will require an order of conditions prior to commencement of construction and that was put forward by Dillison Royce Civil
Design in Lunberg. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. That's signed on June 13th by Daniel and Rachel Brackett. The building inspector's determination. I'll just read the comments. The use includes the construction of town
houses, a use that requires a ZBA special permit for per section 2504.1H6. Planning board site plan approval per 250-8.4 A5. The common driveway rec requires a
planning special permit per 256.47A, a storm water permit per 204-1D for disturbing greater than 1 acre. It should be noted that the number of units would be created will trigger 250-4.1B1
for affordable housing and that's from commissioner Jingris. is also a plan a a site plan plans of the proposed condos and we have a blowup there and there
were a few comments from other boards the fire department um this is from Christos learditis no issues with the ZBA application one it one item of note would like to point out is that the proposed buildings will require automatic sprinkler system as required
by Mass General Law chapter 48 section 26i. While we are aware that there is not an adequate water supply available, this law does not allow the sprinkler requirement to be waved. However, it allows the installation of other types of fire suppressant systems as allowed in the building code. Should this
process move on, please keep communications with the building department and fire department early on to discuss options for a suppression system. The conservation commission agent Jamie Hurland said the proposed project will require a notice of intent.
The board of health has the following conditions. Each unit must have a source of portable water. It appears town water is proposed. Each unit must be served by a sewage disposal system in compliance with title 5 and the Lunberg border health sewage disposal system regulations. No plans for sewage
disposal systems have been provided and a review of the subdivision plan indicates additional testing will be needed. No burying of wood waste from lot clearing operations is allowed without compliance with 310 CMR 16.0000 site assessment regulations. Any field
brought on site must be clean and comply with DP ABC asphalt brick and concrete rule. Any blasting material rules shall not be perchlorate based. All detentions retention structures shall minimize standing water. All phases of construction shall be done to minimize
noise, odor, heat and dust that would be injurious of public health and or cause a condition of air pollution. Depending on past uses of the property, address any potential contaminants which may be in the soil, i.e. orchards and arsenic. I think Brian's letter was covered, but
this goes on to talk about the Mass Department of Housing and Community Development and the set aside dwelling unit shall qualify for DHCD subsidized housing inventory for the town of Lunenburgg and shall count to the mandate of the housing inventory
threshold that mass general law chapter 40B1 a development containing 10 mill units shall set aside 10% of the units as moderate or lowincome housing units. I'm sorry. A development containing 36 or more units shall set aside 15% of the
units as moderate or low income. I don't think I need to go on with that. So, um, all the notifi all the abutters were notified two weeks prior to tonight's hearing. Fitchburg and Lunberg both. And that's all, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you. You're welcome. Um, I today you're representing. >> I am. Thank you, >> folks. Greg Roy with Dillison Roy this evening. uh represent the applicant. The brackets are here. Dan and Rachel are here um as well and we appreciate your time. Um as always, I appreciate the uh
thorough uh uh record read there. I feel like I sometimes don't have to make a presentation at all, but I I will. Um so, um I'll give you an overview. Uh some of that I'll rehash. Um maybe just
using slightly different words, but the property um is located so um New West Townsen Road. I finally got a really bright laser pointer, so I apologize in advance, but New West Towns and Road is right here and that runs right along the
Lunberg Fitchburg line if you're aware of of uh of that. Howard Street was kind of down off the page down in here. So Howard Street comes down, tees into New West Townson Road, and then you come up here. Uh, so that that's that's the uh area of the world that we're uh we're
talking about this evening. Um, the property is uh in excess of 30 acres. Um, and as we uh as was read, we're proposing to create two, excuse me, four um additional lots. So the existing house is right in that location there.
That's 850 Newest Towns and Road where the brackets live. Um, in the balance of the property out out behind here, uh, we're proposing to to subdivide into an additional four lots. Um, the reason we're only only proposing four lots, um,
is because of the soils. We did do soil testing. I did note the, uh, there was a comment about soil testing from the board of health um, which I guess is the only comment that I disagree with. We have uh we have done soil testing uh witnessed by the board of health in all
of the areas that we're showing. We just don't have five. We don't have more than four areas. So, we can't really propose any more than four septic systems. Otherwise, this might have been a subdivision. Um you know, more more conventional subdivision type uh development. Um but because of the uh
the limitations of the soils, u we have we have those areas shown. We have one up in the front here and we have one here, here, and there. And those have all been soil tested in in as witnessed by the uh board of health. Um, as we uh as was mentioned, we're
proposing the four lot configuration. The pink um or peach um outlines are the are the proposed locations of the town homes. Um I want to make that distinction. Um, your bylaw in this zone, which is an outlying zoning district, allows both a multifamily
development by special permit and also a town home development. They distinguish those two uses. Multifamily would be four or less and it doesn't necessarily have to be in a town home configuration. You have a separate definition for town homes, uh, which can be five or less.
So, we're proposing that here and just want to make sure we distinguish between the multif family use. So, it's a town home proposal that we're uh proposing and uh we're proposing to access those uh with a shared driveway. Um so, we'd be accessing from uh New West Townsen
Road in in approximately that location right there. And it's about a,000 ft uh long driveway um which has been uh laid out uh in accordance with the town's I say newly established but almost two years old now. Uh new common driveway uh
regulations. 18t width uh turnaround for fire and the like. Um this plan is not a detailed construction plan like we would be submitting to the planning board. Uh we understand we will need if we're successful here we would need a uh we
would need to prepare that plan uh grading drainage storm water management erosion control layout information profile information that would have to be submitted to both the planning board for a common driveway special permit and a joint uh storm water management
permit. So those are two future permits that we would need. Again, this is our first stop. Um but we we we do note that we have to do those as as Lisa mentioned. And that same plan would also be submitted to the conservation commission um
to request an order of conditions pursuant to the wet weather protection act and the town's wetland protection bylaw. So um we understand all that. Um we also have an overlying um town line, town city line which is right here. It's
kind hard to see on the plan. Um, but the frontage of this lot is in Fitsburg and the bulk of the work, all of the the structures and most of the infrastructure for the site um does uh occur within Lunberg. So, the ANR plan
that we would ultimately need to file will need to be endorsed by both the Lunberg Planning Board and the Fitchburg Planning Board. As Lisa mentioned, we've been in contact not only with u with Mr. uh Gingris, but also with the uh with Felix at the uh in the Fitchburg um
building department. We filed the forum intent through that process as well, just to make sure we had everything covered. Um and that's what really led to the layout of the lots. The lots, the frontages on New West Townsen were actually increased to comply with
Fitchburg's frontage requirements. Your frontage requirements are 100 ft. Fitchburg's frontage requirements are 175 ft. So, we have 175 ft with the exception of one uh reduced frontage lot which Fitchburg allows um down to uh 40
ft. We're showing it at 50 ft because your uh regulations govern on those you your reduced frontage requirements are at least 50 ft. So, we're we've held to the most restrictive uh dimensional lot requirements from both city of Fitsburg
uh or Lunberg in in all the cases of those lots. Um so generally speaking, we've clustered the um the proposed town houses, which again are five unit buildings in a typical townhouse configuration um
around a um a turnaround. Again, it looks like a culde-sac. It's not a public road we're proposing. We're proposing a common driveway. Um, but we did we did feel it it might be um advantageous to show a more robust turnaround there than than a uh than what you would uh uh more commonly see
on the end of a common driveway turnaround uh for fire protection and the like. Um, and those those structures are are located around that turnaround primarily. Um, the closest point of the
structure on lot 4 uh to New West Townsen is about 500 ft. So that point right there to New West Towns and that's about 500 ft uh through the woods. That's the closest point of of any of the uh proposed structures to the street. Uh most of
them are set back greater than 750 or almost 1,000 ft. Uh the property on the northerly side up here is all state state stateowned land and it's completely undeveloped. So there's no there's no structures in that direction. There is a house right in this area. This distance is about is is in excess
again of 500 ft uh across there. Um and then there's an existing house on the old uh Pierce's Tree Farm property which is abutz this to the south. Uh there's an house right about where my cursor is. Man, that light is blinding. I apologize. Um and then the um u O'Brien
uh project, the butts, just for reference, butts on the uh on the uh easterly side of the property. Um but again, we're quite a ways u distant from that. It's about I think 500 ft there uh to the to the rear property line. It's
200 ft from this uh on the offset from this property line to that structure is 200 ft. So, we have an the advantage here of having 30 plus acres of land. Um, significantly oversized lots. Um, your outlying zoning district requires
80,000 square ft. These are all 2x if not more than than the required amount of land area. Um, so we have the advantage of kind of setting these way off the road um in a in a place that we do not believe they will be visible for for in any significant fashion to any of
the abuing properties or the street. Um, as I think I I'll kind of leave it at that. Uh, we did submit some uh, uh, basic um, architectural renderings just to give you an idea of what we're proposing
uh, for those. Um, but row town houses like you would see uh, like like you probably have in your mind is what we're proposing. Uh, fairly good size units. Um, and as as we said, we're proposing on-site septics and wells uh to to
support those cuz there's no town water or sewer of course available in this area. So, I think that's all. >> I'm sure I'm sure I'll have questions, but I'm happy to take any comments or questions. >> Thank you. >> Um, where just the on the conservation
commission is set up in Nevada. Where is that? Where is their >> Where's the jurisdiction? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, there's a wetland system on the northerly side right in that area
there. So, most of the um maybe with the exception of the front of the first couple hundred feet, this section of the road in there would go through the buffer zone. So, um we've designed this to be completely in compliance with their u regulations. So, there's no work
proposed in the 30- foot no disturb. There's no structures proposed in the 50. And we've uh we've tried to keep um there's actually with the exception of one small little uh edge over here, all of the buildings are outside of the 100 ft. It's just where the driveway needs
to go through that that one section of the buffer zone is really what we're looking at there. But be that as it may, uh uh you know uh if you're in it anyway, you need a you need to file. Well, um we need a full-blown order order conditions
and um because this this is more than four units, residential units, the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act requires compliance with the Massachusetts Stormwater Management Policy, which is sort of um a little redundant
in this case because we also have to comply with that relative to your local storm water bylaw. So, we'll be reviewing that twice. We'll be reviewing that with the conservation commission, but also through the planning board process. So, >> okay. Thank you. And all of the all of the town houses, they were all
threebedroom as we're we're proposing that now. whether I would imagine we'll probably have a mix of some twos and threes, but you know, we set it up so that you know, from a uh you know, from a planning standpoint as three bedrooms, uh I would imagine we'd have
>> I know that this is early here just for years, but >> right, >> you know, um I was curious because it's like 15 bedrooms and >> yeah, >> it's quite the >> we we've set the septic systems up for that. Um so the septic systems again, they're designed on real perk test data.
We did the perks, we've did done the deep test holes, and we've designed those systems to accommodate that. So, um it's it's a pretty big site, so we have the advantage of being able to, you know, um have enough area to breathe out there, so to speak. So, that's the way
we've set it up. Whether or not we end up with some a mix of twos and threes is yet to be determined, but we wanted to uh come in and tell you what it ultimately could be. >> Okay. Um and also you you mentioned of
course the law that with the affordable housing. >> Yeah. >> Just a question. I know that you know affordability is a key question for a lot of people especially young people trying to get into the pocket. >> Um making the town houses like that does
that decrease the cost where >> Yeah. Well generally speaking >> putting five units in one structure. >> Yeah. I mean, generally speaking, when you can increase the density, you know, um you're going to decrease your costs. Um
affordable affordable units and afford real affordable uh prices on market rate units is always a difficult thing to talk about because it's market driven, right? So the the the the developer could come in here and say that he's
going to sell these units for $400,000 and he might do that. He or she might do that, but then two years later the the person could go go ahead and sell that thing for whatever the market bears and that could be I don't know whatever 600,000 or 800,000. So um we know for a
fact that pursuant to your bylaw, this is a a development that has 10 or more lots but less than 36. So 10% of these units or two will need to be will need to meet the definition of your affordability criteria. So those will have to be deed restricted. Uh make make
sure that they're affordable pursuant to the requirements in your bylaw. We we have no objection to that. Um, in terms of the rest of the market rate units, the intention here is to make some units that are available for for for people like that that are, you know, folks that that are looking for entry- level
housing and aren't necessarily looking for the 3,000 square foot plus um houses that we're building in town now that are, you know, a million bucks, which is hard to believe, but um so I don't know what the the final market rate is, but
generally speaking, anytime you can propose a development, a permit development that has increased uh density over what would be more of a comparative um use like a single family or a duplex, you're going to you're going to spread out those costs so that
the the end user costs could be can be less. However, like I said, the market bears the the ultimate price on those market rate units. >> Okay. Thank you. I'll open it up to the board. Um the fire department has
questioned the um availability of a suppression system or sprinklers throughout >> and where this is all individual water systems. Um >> can you address that as to how you would um
>> or ensure that >> is provided? >> Um I'll address it this way. We have no objection to that. Uh, anything over a uh three families or more we we know requires um sprinkler systems in in Massachusetts, maybe in the United
States. I'm not sure. Um I have I am not a mechanical, electrical or plumbing or or fire protection specialist, but we have done fire suppression systems on you know fed off of wells uh before. Um there are different I think as was
suggested in the uh in the narrative that there are different systems that are available. You likely have to introduce storage. So you likely have to put some sistns in there so that you could provide the so you can have a reservoir of water to feed that sprinkling system where you don't have a a municipal water man supplying the
pressure. Um I just did one for a matter of fact in Stow for a uh uh elderly housing complex 37 unit elderly housing complex uh which is driven by a well and you know big you know uh commercial style commercial uh
style fire suppression system. We had to put a sister in uh to have the the uh the flow. So I know it's it's possible. We don't have the details worked out. We know we have to comply with that regulation. We can't get around it. We're not asking you to wave any of those provisions. Um so should you act
favorably, we know we have to go through all that um uh that design effort as part of the building permit process um Brian will be asking for uh a fire protection affidavit and design and all that thing all that uh for the relative to fire protection code. So um it's
possible. I don't have the exact uh knowledge on what the system is. I know it's been done and we know we have to do it. So, >> uh, the other thing I noticed that, um, the septic system for the
one on the top is a pump down. >> Yeah. >> All the others are pump up, but that one lies halfway in Fitsburg, halfway in Lunenburgg. That >> do they have the same rules? >> They do. Yeah. um they actually have
slightly less restrictive rules uh in in uh in Fitsburg for septic systems. They're fair. They're pretty much a straight title 5 uh jurisdiction, whereas Lunberg has some supplemental board of health regs. Uh we laid these out to be compliant with with the most
restrictive, but we that permit would likely have to be a a Fitsburg uh board of health permit. And again, um, this is, uh, this process here before your board is the first stop on a very long pro permitting process. We have to, this isn't a just get one permit and
we're good. This is we have to get all or nothing. So, we understand we have to, you know, we have to get this permit, but then we have to get a special permit from the planning board. We have to get a uh, storm water permit from the planning board and order conditions from the conservation commission. We have to get an ANR plan endorsed. Uh, we have to get septic
permits from Lunberg and perhaps Fitchburg. All that stuff has to happen before we can even apply for building permits. So, >> was actually surprised you started with the ZBA. >> Well, if you're not going to give us the zoning relief, >> right, >> uh, it doesn't make much sense to do the
other things, right? So, >> Mhm. >> Any other questions from the board? Are is it contemplated that these are basically rental units rather than a condominium? >> Uh I don't know if we've really decided
on that yet. Um I you know I think they could be both in terms of how your bylaw reads. I think it would depend on uh quite frankly probably just economics after you know at the time they they go to be constructed. Um, I think they could be built and rented uh and owned
by one. You know, each lot could be owned by one uh one entity or they all could all be owned by one or they could be condized and you could create a condominium association either for the entire four lots or for a condo association for each of the each of the lots. Um, so I don't think that's really
been decided yet. >> In terms of parking, are you leaning towards uh garages? >> Yes. >> You you have two different models. I think. >> Yes. >> One one shows no garages and the other shows garages. >> Yeah. No, I I thank you for that. Um I
think we would we would be looking at having garages for all for each of the units. So we'd have a one um one garage bay and a we'd have two spaces for each unit. Uh one would be in garage bay, one would be um in the front um setup for
all of the all the units. So we do proposed garages. >> Is this it? these five units, you're going to come back asking for more. this site in in my opinion as the engineer after we've done the soil testing doesn't doesn't support any more lots
and your bylaw doesn't have as a by well it's I get it were a special permit but there's no um five unit town houses I think is your cap in your bylaw so I don't see uh a process um through your by you know permitting
under your bylaw that would allow for any higher density Thank you. >> Other questions? You >> okay? >> I'm okay. Yeah. >> All right. So, uh couple questions, Mr. Chair. First of all, um the question is we've heard about two and three
bedrooms. When it comes to the affordability, can we dictate which which would have to be affordable? And so, I would lean towards the three bedrooms having to be affordable because I'm looking at young families. We wanting need we need more affordable housing for young families. Um, we have
apartments for, you know, young young young things, but I look for families. So, I would want to be able to dictate that the 20 affordable the two affordable units would have to be three have to be >> Well, right now they're proposing three in every Yeah. >> every every unit. >> So, they right now they all >> you're showing two bedrooms and you've
already talked about the possibility it could be two bedrooms. I'm saying would I would want to dictate that it would be only three. The only afford the only way any the affordable units had to be three bedrooms. >> Well, you would have to make two of them, right? 10%. >> Yeah. To So I think uh you know Dave, I
wish I uh I wish I had this more in the forefront of my mind. When you're proposing a mix of unit types um so I I've got some other projects I'm working on that are larger projects, granted, but um when you're proposing a mix of say two and three unit, you have to have
a mix of two. You have to have an um a proportional amount dedicated for uh affordable in each category. So, you can't have a m you can't have say uh 10 twos and 10 threes and just make the twos. That's against the the state
regulation that's cited in your bylaw. You would have to have at least in this case, you'd have to have at least one three and one two. >> So, I think I think that the state statute covers you on that. I don't want to put words in your mouth. You're certainly willing you're certainly uh in your purview to condition that, but I
believe that the the way the state statute is written that covers you on that. um on that topic, you you can't you cannot discriminate, >> right, >> in of well, you can discriminate, you just then can't count them as your as your affordable housing, but the state
doesn't allow you to discriminate. So, I think if you have three-bedroom units, at least one of your affordables, at least a a prerequisite percentage has to be from that three-bedroom stock. >> Okay. All right. Um what is the width of the proposed uh road to get in?
>> 18 ft. Okay, I'm going to go through this again >> and and again, you know, we have to go through the planning board process on this. So, you know, >> understand but however, you know, you're looking at it as that I have almost a/4 mile road getting to the last unit. >> Yeah.
>> I mean, semantics, we're about 100 ft away from a quarter mile road to get to the last unit. You have at least 500 ft from the, you know, from a unit with with a narrow road, and I'm going to call it road. And you're going to have a minimum of 20 but at least probably
closer to 40 cars. Yeah. >> Going down that. >> This this this conversation sounding familiar. >> Yes. >> Very. >> Yeah. I don't know that we'd be objection to widening this to say a 20 foot, which would be a standard two-way road. I mean, I I don't You're probably
right. You know, it's five units. I mean, there's uh 20 units. I mean, the planning board will likely have something to say on that, too. >> Okay. And now regarding parking, is there a proposal for guest guest parking? Where would guests where would guests park on the on this in this?
>> Yeah. Um, so we've kept all the driveways wide, too. Um, so coming off when we spur off into the the the each lots driveway, we kept those extra wide at 18 ft. So you could have some parking along the edges. >> So now I'm down to one lane. >> Well, yeah, but
>> that happens all the time, right? I mean, we could dedicate visitor spaces if that's if that's what we could do that. We have plenty of space on the site for that. So, we haven't designated any right now, but we could certainly do that.
>> In addition to fire suppression or w sprinklers for the um town houses, what about um fire hydrants? >> Uh yeah. So, well, again, the there's no
public water here, so we can't do a Yeah. >> So, in my experience with these type of developments, we're beholden to do what the fire department requires. So, um you know, there >> that might be the water district, not the fire department. >> Well, the water district wouldn't come
into play here because there's no water anywhere nearby. But um you know I don't want to put words in their mouths but they they clearly have indicated and directed us to the state statute and fire protection code where we would need a sprinkler system. Um and we we understand that. Um whether or not that
suffices for them uh sometimes you can put a dry hydrant in. Um there is a pond across the street. I'll note too. So there is a there is a source of water across the street. So, uh, they did a they did the fire department did weigh in on this and review it and they they
didn't seem to bring that up. But the bottom line is, um, the fire department's one of those, uh, departments that, uh, you know, what they say goes. It doesn't matter when they can say it in the when we've you can get through this whole process so we can file the building permit and they
can ask for something even then. So, um you know, I would hope that they gave it a good look here and and and gave us a good um a good review, but um there's no municipal fire hydrants anywhere nearby. So, it would only be it would have to be
a dry hydrant type of system if it was required by the fire department. This road that would this proposed road, what's that? Any drop offs, any hazards.
>> If it's if if someone's coming down a dark road and there's hazards and someone coming down the other way and he's got his LED high beam lights on and he drives off the road and goes into a ditch, then we got to call the fire department and then the road's blocked. >> So,
is is that taken under consideration? Yeah, I think that's that's baked into the um planning board's common driver regulations really where they where they require the increase with your board may see fit to condition us to condition this um to increase that width further. I don't think we would object to that.
Um they also require turnouts. We're not showing those on this plan. It's not it's not that detailed yet. You know, we we we see that as a um a finer point that will be reviewed by the planning board. Um, I'm not trying to say that you can't ask for it, but I'm just
saying that um we intend to fully comply with the um planning board's requirements for common driveways and uh seek no waiverss on that. Uh and again, your board may see fit. I think it's within your um purview to uh
um uh issue reasonable conditions relative to that if you see fit. So lot two, the proposed septic plant has like a thousand foot feed to get from the units >> through wetlands. >> Yeah, we'll probably
>> That's okay. >> We'll probably directionally drill it. >> Okay. Just I know that's out of my jury, our jury, but yeah, >> we'll either directionally drill it or we'll get easements to go across the uh to go to run it right down the driveway. One or the other.
And to do this you have and this is just that to do this you have to divide it into four lots. It can't stay as one lot and and do this on it. >> Well we have four lots. We've proven that there are four val viable septic areas. So just from a
>> okay I don't know if you could put four four septics on one lot. That's I that was just more of a question. Well, it's more just frankly, we can't put we can't put four five family units on one lot. >> Okay. >> To be quite frank with you, >> your bylaw is pretty clear about that.
It's five five units per lot. So, >> we uh you know, we we would love to be here with a 10 lot subdivision. Uh if we had found it, we would have, you know, would have it might have been a little bit different. We might not have been proposing five town, you know, townhouse units on each lot, but we would love to have have had more lots here, but the
soils just didn't support it. I was curious why when all the lots were like five Yeah. >> nine acres. >> Yeah. We tested the entire you know we we tested peppered the area with test holes and uh it's just hit or miss material. >> It's not a curiosity. What do they do
with common areas and maintenance and downhouse >> with Oh, with um common areas you mean? Yeah. Um so well one or two So this gets back to the gentleman's point whether or not it it it will depend on what the mechan the ownership mechanism is. If it's a if it ends up being a uh if if
one entity owns the lot and rents the units, that would be a property management company that would that would maintain uh all of those common areas, the facilities, the well, the septic, uh handle the plowing, and all that kind of thing. If it's a condominium association, if there are four sale
units, then you'd have a a homeowners association or a condominium association with a master deed where everybody where those uh ownership um operation and maintenance details would be specified in a master deed. Um that'd be escrow funds that would be established for the maintain maintenance of the system and
repairing the roof and whatever else. Um so it will depend a little bit on what the final >> the final Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I was going to say m we have a long common drive right that four four four people have to or four entities have to agree on maintenance.
>> Yeah. So at least four I mean if I guess the worst case would be that all of them are conduit eyes and you have 20 but that's easier because you force it. >> Yeah. You spread it out more. But even if it was four, if if it ended up being apartments and they and you had four
different entities, there' just be there's going to be a common driveway maintenance agreement that whoever owns whatever the ownership structure is of the uh of the units, they would enter into uh you know, sharing compensate, you know, agreement with the common driveway. So, yeah, there's probably
going to be levels of legal ease here, but um it's certainly not something that isn't done, you know, fairly commonly. Okay. Any other question? >> I just had uh two quick things. Um
>> one of the um I think it was board of health said there was a proposed town water. That's definitely not >> there's not town water. No, there's not town water proposed. >> Okay. Okay. That it was just in one note, but I know you said it. Um and my other thing basically either
building size looks like um like the units are kind of very similar square footage whether it's three or two looks like two is actually a little bit bigger. >> We used I think we have we have two unit drawings in there I think in your packet in the the floor plans >> with
>> well the floor plan units I think in the >> we used the larger we used that one there for all of the units. >> Okay. >> Just to be conservative. So, if some of these end up being two units, the building will get a little smaller because I think those are the those are the excuse me, if some of them end up
being two bedrooms, I think the building would the overall size of the building. This we're trying to make this represent a worst case scenario. >> Okay. >> So, we use the larger units >> necessarily one or the other. It could be >> Yeah. >> one and two of the other. >> Yeah. We we we set it up for the larger footprint on all five units in the
townhouse, but it could very well be that some of them are smaller. But that's our, you know, >> and even the two bedrooms will have garage. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And this doesn't affect the height at all. >> No. >> Being a threetory. >> No, we're not proposing a height uh
variance or waiver of at this time. >> So, you're proposing a garage on the first floor, >> correct? >> Where you have your entry? >> Yes. Yeah. So that cuts into
what you're showing on any of these. >> The the last one in the picture kind of shows it. >> Here's the one. >> Oh, okay. Thank you. >> You have the garage. Yeah. S sort of a >> Yeah. >> I don't know what you call that kind of town home, but
>> bathroom. >> Yep. >> We'd love to put the garages on the first floor. You know, that's the most economical way to use space because you can you take advantage of the basement for your garage. If you were to come in on the first floor of your garage, which everybody likes, everybody wants a first
floor garage, you take up square footage, so your units end up getting bigger. Um, and then you, of course, you do have a, you know, more basement space, but um, so there's sort of pluses and minuses to all of it. The hill goes, you know, we're low at
New West Towns and then it it climbs as you go into the site. It didn't seem to make much sense to for to force the issue and have the driveways come around the top of the you know we we could have flipped the the configuration of the garages and the it just didn't seem to make any sense you know
>> then you'd have the back of the units facing the you know the common driveway and it just didn't seem like it made any sense. So, >> okay. >> And as far as the driveway, it's looking is the worst grade anywhere near 10% or
>> No, no, it's it we're not there's no issues with grade here. Um, you know, we'll have some grading to make sure it worked. You know, we have to put the profiles together in the grades uh to satisfy that, but we we have taken a look at it. We're not we're not up
against a a threshold there for the maximum slope which I can't remember what it is for a common driver. It's less than 12 though for sure. It might be 10. Can't remember. >> Any other question? >> I don't have not at this time.
>> Okay. If there's no other questions, I'll open it to the public. Anybody that would like to speak? Uh Dave Mr. Rogers, >> we know >> the alternative. >> Yeah, that's very true.
>> Uh Dave Rogers, 82 Highland Street. Um I have a a few questions. Um snow plowing, is it the town's responsibility or is it the associations? >> It would be the association. It would
not be the town. Okay. Um, in terms of, uh, access, um, how how wide are these roads? Uh, >> I think that's part of what we would discuss. >> So, he's proposing 18 ft. We're going to
my my thing is going to be it has to be wider than that. >> I I didn't >> it'll have to be it'll have to be closer to the a standard road of 20 ft. Standard row is 20 ft. >> Okay. Um I understand that that there are this is at a preliminary stage and
it's difficult to earmark what um certain costs would be. However, um how has there been a proformer prepared for this project? >> No.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um because you can figure the thing backwards, >> right? You can figure the square footage, >> right? And then allocate uh a certain uh square foot cost.
>> Yeah, David, you need to talk to the board. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Um, so there is a way that you can can kind of sort of uh figure out what kind of a a uh uh price range we're we're looking
at. And and why I'm I'm saying that is that to me is a is a very uh important facet of this project because um I personally think uh that every effort should be made to provide uh affordable
housing uh whatever that is and and we can kind of know what that is beforehand. So it's it's very important. The the other question I have um is um
there's there's a lot of figuring that has to be done here and it seems to me that this uh discussion here might be uh premature and by that I mean uh there are so many open uh things that need to
be uh quantified and and and figured Um I'm not sure that that any kind of definitive approval could be given by this uh body uh until you have more information uh which is all part of a
process. So I I I wonder if I'm wrong on that. >> I I would just say at this point he came to us for us because it's a use. The only thing before us is a use under our bylaw 254.1H6 town houses are allowed uh in the town
by but they require a special permit for that use. So what this board is looking at this point is and I believe what they're doing is they say if you guys turn it down town houses we got to come up with a new plan. Um, so I think
they're just trying to say we'll go here first, >> see if we can get the use approved. >> I see. >> And then we can move on. >> Okay. Are these >> They got a lot of work to do. Planning board conservation.
>> Yeah. And he's he's licking his charms. >> Strike that. >> It's a it's an involved process, >> right? >> Very. Yeah, because >> this is very embarrass too. >> Well, that's the other thing I was going to say. I mean, you know, we we have uh
enough um constonation sometimes within within the town and we don't we don't need uh more. But so so that that will have to be uh uh it's I think you get the point that
I'm I'm trying to to and uh but the bottom line is uh if it can be affordable and within the realm of uh a price uh for um young or old people. I
mean I'm I'm all for it. So the realizing that it's at the beginning stages of the process, >> it's the very beginning. >> Okay. Thank you so much for uh your time. >> Thank you. >> Uh I'm sorry I gave you my back, but and >> he gave you his best.
>> I'm sorry that I I I zinged you like that. General >> no to the when you're talking about the affordable Lunenburgg does have >> uh where if you have 10 units or more you get 10% has to be affordable which
means they have to make in that two units definitely affordable >> which I I I don't know if it's changed but it used to be like 80% of the cost of >> Yeah. which which is is not a big number but every little bit helps. >> Every bit helps you know got to start
someplace. All right. Thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Uh do you want to speak? >> How you doing? Eric Lotty 833 Newest Towns Road in Fitchburg. Actually address is Lunberg but we are in
Fitchburg. We're directly across the street from the project. >> I got some serious concerns. The density of the five units. If you add those 20 units, if you go down Howard Street, you're not going to count 20 houses to the end of the street. You're not going
to count 20 houses down newest towns road to the end of the street in Lunberg. I think it's way over building that little spot. I'm not opposed to de development. Everybody know well a few people know me. I've done developments. I do one house on 4
acres. That's the way it should be. That's the way that whole area is. I think it's going to be detrimental to the value of our houses. You know, you're putting in 3400,000 $500,000 houses or town houses
and there's going to be the other houses are in the probably millions high hundreds of thousands of dollars. Um, the other thing, fire is a big concern of mine. I had to put a dry hydrant in
on my pond for three houses. There is no water. There's not enough water in that area to to put for sprinkler. Not an engineer, but lived out there all my life. There's a swamp across the street from this project uh
on state land. I don't think they're going to let them put a dry hydrant in a state swamp. Um, so I don't know where they plan on getting that water. Wells, there's just not enough pressure to run a sprinkler system. There's just there's not enough water out there, period.
You're drilling 500 ft to get a well. Um, very few wells there are over run over the top true artisian wells there. Most are have to be fracked in that. The other thing is is safety. That road after Steuart Road where they
proposed putting that driveway comes to a severely sharp corner. That driveway is right before that sharp corner. You're not going to see people coming from Townsen. You're not I've lost two mirrors on that street from cars coming down coming from I'm coming from
Townsen. They're coming down New Town and they hit your mirrors. That's how tight the road is there. The road is probably 25 ft there. The rest of it's 40 feet as you go down in front of my old family tree farm which was the Latty tree farm,
not PS3 farm. >> I realize >> um so the road there is plenty wide enough but the traffic is already heavy in that area and this is going to add 40 plus cars to the area. It just the roads can't handle it out there as they are.
And we also have the O'Brien development which is on top of the hill which is adding to the Howard Street mess. So, I those are my concerns. I I definitely am not in favor. I'm not in not not in favor of him putting in single family houses. That's fine.
That's not a problem. But I just don't see five condos on each lot. That just doesn't make any sense to me out there. Doesn't fit the aesthetics of the area. >> Thank you. Uh would you like to answer any others questions? Especially though
the water issue as well. and the fire suppression. We know that's going to be they have to do with this. >> Yeah, I I don't know that I want to add much. I think I've addressed most of those things except for maybe sight
distance. Um site distance being location where it come out on the road. Again, that's going to be a subject of the planning board process. Um, no, >> we we can't we I I can't stress enough, we're not, you know, um,
should you give us a a favorable vote, we're we're nowhere near from being done. Um, all of the engineering and and the reason we're here first just to address that is because the next process is a lot more expensive. the the engineering plans that we have to do and
the drainage calculations and the all the detailed engineering is is a lot of money and we would not ever advise a client to spend that money before he knows he has a project because he just have to redo it, you know, they just have to redo it again. So, um so I mean I don't disagree. Uh those are going to
be all the the the topics that were just raised are going to be um are going to be uh topics as we proceed through the process. Um, I guess I would just say I I also don't don't disagree that um there's not a lot
of multif family housing in the area. U but we're proposing to put these way back in the woods. I mean, we we we're not anywhere near the road. So, from an aesthetic standpoint, I just don't think you're not going to see them. Um I get the
issue with the um with the with I lived on the road and I do apologize to the previous speaker. here. I used to get my Christmas trees at at Lah. So, I lived down the street uh for a number for a decade plus. So, I I'm very familiar with the road myself. Um it's a it's a country road. Um
we would be adding some traffic here, but it's not like we're we're a busy road that already has traffic problems. I mean, I understand that that the road gets narrow. We're going to have to deal with traffic visibility issues uh through the planning board process, for sure. But um I don't think that any
I don't think that adding traffic from those type of from from the proposed unit is going to put us over a threshold where all of a sudden this becomes a road that's just can't carry the the cars. Um so but again I I expect all those to be squarely in the uh in the
category of the of the planning board process. Um, but be that as it may, um, I'm not trying to say that it doesn't, uh, impact your decision either, but, um, I think the rest of it in terms of fire protection, it's sort of the applicant's. We understand we have to comply comply with
fire code. Uh, if we can't, then we can't, you know, but, um, we're again, we're here as a first step and, uh, you know, that's a whole separate process. you know, if if if you were to give a a special permit for this and then it's determined that it's infeasible to
provide fire protection that that then the project doesn't proceed because of that. But, you know, it doesn't I don't necessarily think you you have to base your decision on that because it's a it's a totally separate and distinct thing that we we need to get approval on that too. We need to find a solution that's code compliant and it has to be
economically feasible. So, I think that's it. >> Thank you. Uh, anybody else from the audience would like to speak, please? >> Hi, I'm Kevin Spatteror. Um, I am the owner of Lahree Farm. I am in a budding
property. I, uh, moved there. I bought the property in 2017. I built in 2020. to have a nice respectable home in private areas to live and it is going to be in my backyard for one thing. The
other thing is it is a goodiz hill. There is a lot of erosion that comes down that hill. So when they start digging and all that stuff, I know it's going to go into my property cuz it did on the O'Brien's project. And I opposed on that and I explained to the town that
this is all coming into my property into the wetlands, all the runoffs and nothing was done. But it stopped so I didn't care. But um like I I'm with Eric, you know, I'm not opposed to having some there, but this is way too
much. You know, the water content up there is not going to be enough. I mean, is it going to affect my water? You know, I mean, I'm not much of a speaker, but I'm just going to say my point. I think it's way too much.
>> Uh, sir, where is your property in relation to >> I am on the corner of Howard and New West. >> Okay. So, you're across the street? >> No. Next. >> I'm right next door. >> Oh, you're above. Okay. There's no Okay. Right there. Okay. >> So, actually, if I had to look, your
home in relationship to this, your home >> would be >> Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm just trying to get it. >> So, it's it's the whole budding property. >> No, no, >> thank you. >> Thank you. Anybody else would like to
speak? So, Daniel Bracket, um the applicant, um I just wanted to answer some of the questions people had. Um for sure we could put four very large houses here um with you know million
plus price tag. our intent. So some of the questions were about um affordability, right? So our intent in this was to make to respond to the that there's a housing crisis. There isn't enough affordable housing. And so the
intent here is to develop housing that's affordable. Um like uh like was said is that affordability it's the market. Affordability is a moving thing. But um per the regulations there'll be two
affordable units um our intention is to to keep prices down um and to have you know to not we're abutdded on two sides by town forest and open fields that you
know potential future development. So, I mean, yeah, we can put we can put four very large houses here and I don't know that that's going to help affordability and it's not it's not going to really help anyone,
right? So, um, and some of the things as we go through this process, we're very open to a dialogue. If there's, you know, the wider wider driveway, the, um, you know, what whatever, you know, needs
to happen. We're open to, you know, having that dialogue that, you know, places for other people to park, you know, visitors to park. Um it's it's it's just a conceptual plan and there's a lot of approval that we have to go through and
there's um you know when we can we can move things around. If it's determined that it's best for the town for it to be an association, a condo association, we'll make it a condo association, right? So it it's just working through
all the elements that have that's going to keep everyone um so that they're okay with it. We've been in town. We've been here over 20 years. We've been living in that house over 20 years. Uh we our kids grew
up here. We're part of the community. So, thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Anybody else? Seeing none, I will bring it back to the board. >> So, Mr. check. Um, having driven that
road and looking at it is could and we've we've had others who have come to us with higher density um develop kind of projects like this and have asked about traffic studies. Is this something we could ask for before we can make a
decision? Because I do look at that as that is a key element. There was two two points brought up today and I do look at that as that road is might not be able to or is that the best location for it.
>> Um I'm not really sure to be honest. I do know we did a big traffic study that you know in in uh >> the Howard Street. >> Yes. >> Right. You know, they came back and that street is horrible. Came back and said,
"No problem." They were talking a much bigger development. It's about uh I mean I mean under youth would you uh address a traffic study
to be >> you're asking? Well, I'm asking whether the applicant interview >> if we consider >> it really falls more on you know like I say we're a use not a not >> I I understand but we're trying to make
a determination on use and I'm looking at a set of preliminary plans >> right >> if I have to look at this I look at I would say that parking is not adequate for any of this any of these units safety is an issue and all that stuff so I but that's what I'm saying I'd have
trouble >> say that is may may come back to us. >> Okay. Because I have trouble >> I'm not saying it will. I'm just saying there's a possibility it would come back. >> Okay. So, I guess that's like >> if there are any other issues that relate to zoning.
>> Okay. >> Did you have a question? >> It's it's not a question. It's just >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if we can condition a traffic study. I'd have to look into it. >> Okay. >> Where is the
O'Brien property in regards to that map? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> I feel the same way as you. They >> That was a huge project and they two
different people came in and told us it was fine. >> It's a different road though. It is a different but I'm just saying the other one in my opinion is is even more >> how many units was >> but again I mean I'm not opposed to it. >> No
>> I just 200 >> right? So 20 times more a little ways up and they said it was okay. >> All right. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not a traffic engineer, but
when you do the analysis on these size when you when you do the analysis on these size thing, I mean, >> well, it it just doesn't put that much traffic, you're talking about traffic that really doesn't meaningfully increase the, you know, you you spread
the traffic out over hours from a from 20 units. So, it just doesn't it doesn't tend to really >> I I understand. I mean, I'm not a big, you know, I look at traffic studies as they don't often really dictate because, right, nobody's really looking at that. Okay, it's rush hour.
>> Yeah. >> Sun's sitting here at this angle. >> Well, they >> and all that stuff. >> Well, they Well, they don't look at the sun angle, but they look at they look at peak hour and they analyze that. I mean, that but I just I just think in a development this size, you're you're likely to have
the the traffic is likely to put out like five extra vehicles in a peak hour from 20 from 20 units. Well, I don't know about that. Would be 20 extra vehicles in a peak hour. >> No. No. >> You're going to work. >> Yeah, but they all go to work at different time. I'm just trying to say it's even if it was 10. Even if it was
20, Dave, >> 20 vehicles in an hour is not >> just not that much, right? I mean, I'm not trying to minimize the fact that we're proposing 20 units. It's just I I mean I I appreciate a a few of the you know a lot of times you you know
applicants spend a lot of time and money putting these traffic studies together and they just you know and you do have a you do have an um you know an example you know you do have one that was done recently. I get it's on a different adjacent street but >> question talking about traffic
>> families. What about a school bus? What about the school bus route coming up that road? What do you what you got a plan? We got a bus stop at the end or >> we would have to be because it's not going to be a town road. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. They wouldn't be able
to go up the driveway. So, yeah, they would have to stop at the end, I would say. Yeah. Like, quite frankly, like they do at every other driveway in town. They don't they in fact, this would be better than the other drivers in town. And I mean, my kids were the bus stopped at my house
and then it stopped at the house across the street and then it stopped at the house next to I mean, >> I never understood that. >> Yeah, they there's no centralized bus stops anymore, it seems like. But this would be clearly, you know, you'd have any kids that are in this, they'd have to go down to the the bottom. >> Then again, I'd have all the parents
sitting there waiting for the kids blocking the road. >> All the cars blocking the road. >> Well, they'd probably be in the driveway, >> but there No, you're They drive down. I get it. One lane. >> No, I see. Yeah, I'm with you. Believe me, I've I get it. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah.
>> I got to build a school bus stop, I guess. Huh? >> Gonna build them a hut. >> Well, I mean, I guess >> I I suppose I never had a hut as a kid, but all right. >> Johnny and Susie getting wet, waiting for the bus. >> Yeah, I know. >> Or cold. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Heated hot. >> Half the kids get driven to school now. I'm just saying. >> Half of them don't even drive the bus anymore. If we make it affordable, there might be two families that have one car, >> right? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I mean, I can't I can't throw it
all out there. >> No, I I hear you. I can't I can't I can't disagree with you, but I just I I don't know. >> Yeah, it's it's hard to do because we don't have, you know, plans that >> Yeah. >> You know, the first step, it's hard. Um, y'all set?
>> I am. Yeah. >> Would you like to speak? Melanie Lahi 833 Newest Townsen. As for the bus, the bus stops at the corner of Howard and New West Townsen and then it goes up Howard. It does not go further
down the road. that corner where the bus stops. There's two there's two families that get on the bus there and you already have to park on the side of the road right there to wait for the bus cuz they don't stop at
every house anymore. It's a con. That's the common stop at the corner. And those kids will have to walk all the way down to the corner past the spatform's house
and wait for the bus. >> Can I are are there Wenberg houses further down New West Townson Road? >> If there is, that that bus does not go that way. I don't know if there is, but >> there's one. >> There's one. This morning
>> there's two houses. There's Sema and then there's one more house. I'm a school bus driver. Can I address that? >> You have to come up. You have to come up tonight. Give your name and address and then say whatever you would like. >> Yes. After all, you used to be in the front. So
>> yes, that's fine. My name is Rachel Brackett. I live at 85 New Townson Road. So I am a school bus driver. I drive for D. So I drive in Lunenburgg and in Townsen there is a turnaround. The bus doesn't go down because there's not enough houses. That's why the bus comes
down Howard Street and goes down a new West Townson or comes down New West Townson and goes up Howard Street. But if that is a problem, they would have to address the bus company and the bus company would have to go down the road and could turn the buses around on the
Townsen Lunberg line because there is a spot there for a bus to turn around. That's how school buses address those issues if there's a >> problem with that. >> I appreciate. >> And my girls, they do they used to go to
the corner of New West Towns and and Howard Street as well to take the bus before they moved in and built their houses across the street. >> Okay. >> Across the street. There didn't used to be a house until they built their three houses. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you for that information. >> Thanks. >> Okay. back to the board. Anybody else? Before we bring it back to the board. Okay. All right. I'm going to cut off the public discussion. We'll bring it back
to the board. Um, as far as, you know, we the driveway we can say is a condition. You want 20 ft, you know, versus what they said 18. So, we can condition that that it's
conditioned on that one condition. um the traffic study I would I mean I I understand what's going to happen in the traffic study. I mean look it's it's obvious it's they're not it's not like it's a busy road adding 12.
>> We could also we could also leave it up to the planning board. >> Correct. Yes. because they've got to, you know, they they're going to see a much more detailed and they're going to have more information on what they're already and what they're going to do
than we have at this point. >> Go ahead. >> I I should note that the planning board is going to have a third party peerreview engineer, too, um to review my work. They're not going to take my word for it. Really? >> Yeah. >> After all this time? >> Yeah, believe it or not. So, they
they're going to review all of those. So just I just thought to mention it. >> Okay. >> Are we able but I'm I know I know I've mentioned about the road. Am I a am I able to put a condition about parking?
>> Um it's kind of hard because we don't have a layout on it. You know what I mean? But again, planning board's going to do all of that. They're not, you know, they're not going to have, they have to have parking. You know what I mean? They don't even know if they're
going to put the garages in yet. They say they are. Who knows? >> And that's Mr. Chair. That makes it difficult to >> It makes it difficult to us because what's before us is use in the bylaw. The way it's read, it just
says town houses are allowed by special permit. >> Understand? And that I understand that. And but now we're making a determination on is this the proper use for this area. >> Exactly. Right now I'm only concerned with
>> the bylaw says that they're allowed with a special permit from ZBA. In other words, you just can't build them by right, >> right? Dan Brackett 850 newest Townson Road. >> Speak up
more into the mic. >> Um, concerning parking or visitor parking. I mean, again, we're amicable to work through any differences. So, we can say we can set a specification that there has to be three spots per unit,
right? And not designate where they are. And there's bylaws for that that they're going to kick in. The planning board is going to >> Yeah. >> determine what >> I mean for that's a concern and you want to put in a requirement. We can say we can have visitor parking as Greg
indicated. There's there's a ton of space. So we can put a place to have visitor parking or we can expand the parking area at each unit to accommodate. Right now, it's kind of designed for two cars per unit, but we can design it for three. And so, if
that's a concern or something that you want to stipulate, we're open to that stipulation. And I think it should be defined like, you know, three cars per unit as opposed to just a lots of parking, right? or we
need more parking because we you know you >> so I think your bylaw you'd find that your bylaw would your off streetet parking requirements would require two >> okay I don't think they say anything about visit spacing spaces so per Dan's
comment if you required three per uh unit instead of the two you'd effectively be getting five visitor spaces on every lot which seems to be a reasonable place to start But I'll leave it up to you. >> I I I agree. I just what I'm seeing here
is just I look at it. It's just >> I understand. >> It's it's it's hard to say. It's a tough tough one. I would not want to see cars parked on those roads. >> Or I should say driveways. Parked on those driveways. They're not roads. They're driveways. >> Yeah. And and we agree. So I mean I I
think we could easily throw five, you know, five parking spaces on each of those in front of each of those units with no problem at all. And it also makes it for me to look at it as it makes it for emergency apparatus. It gives more room for them because if I'm looking at double density in cars, I
have I mean I I don't know how you guys are, but I haven't gotten a car in the drive two cars in the drive in a garage in a long time. Um but the fact is is that that's you know you're going to end up with probably two cars out and that that doesn't make it easy for fire
emergency apparatus there. All right, I think we've discussed it enough unless anybody else with another question. Brett, back to the board. >> I would just say I mean I don't think the ask is just sticking my head in this
book. I don't think the ask is asking for a lot out of this book. I'm sure there's a lot of money there. Septic plans. I'm sure this wasn't cheap. I I think just what's in front of us. I mean, I could sit here
until midnight and come up with more questions, but I I don't know that that's really my place. Um, and I think a lot of the next steps are going to involve a lot of engineering. And I mean, as far as parking, like we don't
really know if it's two-bedroom or threebedroom yet. Not 100% on garages. So, I like I I just think there's a lot of questions that I could ask that this stage doesn't really have answers to. Um, and not that it should. I don't
think that at this permit those answers all need to be asked just based on what's next. Um, so I yeah, I I I just I don't think I can just sit here and
ask questions forever because I I know that those questions don't have answers at this point or any data to back them up. >> Correct. Okay. Any other discussion? >> I will take a motion.
So, I'll motion to approve based on the based on the conditions of the of the driveway being at least 20 ft.
And there be an additional parking, an additional onecar parking for each unit over and above the the amount required by the by the
>> bylaws per unit. >> Okay. >> And if we approve this, it does it have to come back to us again? >> It will come back to us depending on what they do. I mean, I don't know what they do because this is what we got.
Like I say, tonight the only thing before us is use. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, if they go and they do something and it affects zoning, they're going to have to come back. And and based on that, Mr. Chair, it's the whole thing. It's if we're looking at just
use, I feel like the bylaw says that it it can be done. And I really don't, you know, as you say, it's it's not our place to say how that's done. It's our place to say whether or not it can be done. >> Yeah. >> And looking at five town, I'd ra this
this density of five t five units is a lot nicer than some of the other five unit town houses that I'm seeing in town, you know, as far as the density. >> Okay. I'll second the motion with the conditions as mentioned.
>> Okay. I have a motion and a second. Call for a vote. >> I >> I >> I No. >> And I Okay. You have to read your post decision. Special permit is granted with
contingency that petitioner complies with all licenses, regulations, statutes, ordinance of any and all applicable local, state, federal boards, agencies or jurisdictions over the premises. A special permit is subject to periodic review by the permit granting
authority or the enforcement officer to ensure compliance with conditions. Non-compliance to such conditions may result in the revocation of the permit. A copy of the board's decision shall be filed with the town clerk within 14 days. Any party agreed by the board's
decision may appeal to superior court 20 days after the decision is filed with the town clerk. Any um after certification by the town clerk at 20 days have elapsed since the decision was filed. You should have it recorded in
the registry of deeds. No special permit shall take effect until it's been recorded. The special permit shall lapse within two years unless substantial or use or construction has commenced that. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> If there are no other >> uh information or agenda, I'll make a motion that we adjourn. Come on. You >> second that one. You didn't have a moment.
You want to see right? >> Yes. >> I I want to get that. >> Ajourn. >> Yes. >> Hall of Fame. >> We said yes. >> Yes. >> I missed it. I
>> That's all right. You we we even if you >> We're ajourned, Dan. >> Yeah. The majority had it already on you. >> Very good. >> Very good. Sorry to keep you later than usual. >> Yeah. >> Are we up?
>> No. No. >> See the crowd like that. I am with