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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=5mssNQ1c7m4

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um that intends to join us soon. So with that, if there's no other concerns or issues, we'll go ahead and get started. >> Just say something real quick. The young lady here wanted me to said something earlier and I just wanted to bring up that make sure when we talk we talk

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directly in the mic so they can hear sometimes they have a hard time hearing. So if you could help us with that appreciate it. >> All right with that >> I'm just th you call me [laughter] >> with that we'll get started. Uh this is

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a workshop so no need to really gabble in or gabble out or you're not taking any votes or anything right. This is in for information purposes only. >> Yes sir. Um so staff has been working to prepare our fiscal year 27 budget. Uh we've made it through a good bit of the

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department. Still have a few more to go. Um hopefully we'll have all the departments finalized next week um with at least the the first round of of budget discussions. Um, of course, we are in an extremely high deficit right now, um, which is why we want to have one of these workshops. Um, just about

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everything we talked about several weeks back, I don't remember the date, um, has been included in the budget, excluding the turf fields and the rescue truck. Um, but we have included things such as the multi-use fields at the sports park,

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uh, four proposed uh, new positions in fire, one in-house attorney position, one budget manager position, and one additional part-time seasonal sports and recck coordinator position. Uh, there are several vehicles uh, in various

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departments in the budget. Um, mostly tonight we will talk about the general funds. Um we will talk about a little bit about the enterprise funds but a lot of the conversation um needs to be on the budget deficit that the general bun general fund faces.

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Um we are not currently proposing increases to water and sewer rates until we get the rate study done and we can actually have a factual information to present to the commission. It does not have to be done at the start of the fiscal year. So

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if R refellis gets done in December um we can present to the commission in January February and we can discuss water and sewer rates at that time. Once we also discuss the future of the wastewater treatment plant have a better understanding of where we're going to be with that. We will recommend uh this

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year a sanitation rate increase. We have not raised the sanitation rates and at least this almost six years I've been here. I believe it was 2019 is the last time sanitation rates were increased. We have dipped into the sanitation reserves each year to either fund um new trucks

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or new equipment. And so we do need to look at those rates. Um as you all talked about last fiscal year, the storm water rate is supposed to increase this year as well. We will present the same increase that we talked about last year. Um that you all discussed at that time

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um probably in either second meeting in June or first meeting in July for that. Um >> what was that storm water increase? >> I don't recall offh hand. Um we'll go through the storm water budget tomorrow, but it's not as big of an increase as it

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has been um last year. I believe it was around 5% um something like that. Uh but with the recent news of the property tax proposals and it now making its way to the ballot in November, um we definitely need to get through through that election and see what h what's going to

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happen and where we're at. So, we are pumping the brakes on some things. Um, as I said, there will be there is currently four proposed positions in the fire department, but we will likely remove those for fiscal year 27 because it does not make any sense to to include

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that in the budget for fiscal year 27 and then turn around and face extreme budget cuts due to advalorum next year. Um, if it pass, if the property tax proposal passes, there is going to be some hard conversations to have between not only

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the Lin Haven uh commission, but commissions throughout the state. Um, and we would definitely have to take an in-depth look at consolidation of services. Um, and that could include police, fire, animal control, uh, things throughout the county. Um, just because the the dynamic will change of how we

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bring in property tax. So, with that being said, unless you all have something else to add to that or questions, comments, concerns before um we will kind of start going through the the general fund budget and taking a look at that. We will show you where we currently are right now with our

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deficit. And keep in mind that includes the almost $2.8 million um debt service payment for the disaster f disaster bond. Um, and we will look at what the the millage rate would have to be if we were to include everything that we discussed several weeks back in our

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workshop. >> Commissioners, are y'all rock and roll here? Y'all have any upspiring salvos, if you will? >> Hearing none. Ready to get started. >> All right, we're going to share the

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screen and take it over um to our finance team. Miss Marsh has got her screen shared there and can go through you. You all can see see where we're currently at. That right there the >> you know move it up just a little bit. >> The s the surplus of the $6.7 million

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that that is the deficit we would be if we were to include everything in the budget that we talked about um like I mentioned tonight with the debt service payment. That is where we were at right now with the the millillage set as it is at 4.05.

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So hold on. Let's look at this. So um what column are we looking at here? We're looking at column >> colum J. The red 6,697,000. That is the budget deficit as of today. If we include everything that we talked

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about so far in the budget. And just for fun, let's go so you can show what that millage would be to to make that a zero >> below that negative 6.7 million at 2. >> That's the debt service payment for the disaster bond. Yes, sir.

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>> All right. This is the number you would need to be able to balance the general fund budget with all the additions that city manager just told you about. So >> 7.9647 >> and let's head it off before we get get it out there that let's be realistic. That will never that's not going to be

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that's not what we are proposing and that's not what we anticipate you all to to tell us what to do or to to vote on. Um >> well you couldn't do that anyways I think. >> Right. But I'm saying we we're not proposing we get there. We are just saying hey this is what it would have to

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be today. Um >> what is the percentage state law will allow village rate increase? It's like >> yeah it varies >> I think it depends on how much revenue it's a percentage if I remember right

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>> growth right percentage of >> it's it that number there is not doable >> I understand yeah I don't know what the increase I don't have that number in front of me I'm sorry mayor >> now what he's asking is what

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>> maximum we can increase >> right and I know that's like a formula I think it's like a percentage >> prescribed by law. Correct. >> Maximum based on like five years of growth and some kind of formula based off that. They do it for the fire assessment, too. >> It's up to 110% of the adjusted roll

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back rates. >> So, um let me give you a few preamles here. The budget that we're going to be uh putting up on the screen for you is a beyond preliminary.

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I have no revenue numbers from the state. Those will not come in until late August, early September. We're using fiscal 26's state revenue numbers. I have no numbers for medical benefits for staff. We're

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using existing medical rates for staff. I assume those will increase. I can't tell you by how much. >> They will. >> Liability insurance. That is a large portion of our budget. We've included a 10% increase on the liability insurance.

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That might be a little on the high side, but I'd rather uh be pleasantly surprised when those numbers come in. We did include some money for the evergreen study. We did had a phone call with them a couple of days ago. They

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gave us an idea of generally what we could expect uh to increase salaries by. We asked uh if we smoothed the increases over three years

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and for the purposes of this evening we uh applied that increase across the board. Of course when the study comes in it won't be an acrosstheboard increase for all staff. It will be based on what their recommendations. Certain staff

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members would receive a larger increase than other staff members. That's the whole point of the study is to make sure that we line everybody up in their job descriptions. But for the purposes of tonight, we've added approximately a half million dollars to uh equal out

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what we think Evergreen is going to eventually come to us with. So again, this is beyond preliminary. What I'm looking for for you tonight, please, is to give us some guidance. What are your priorities?

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What should we continue to include? And what can we remove? Clearly, we were going to have to remove some things. Uh we can't I wouldn't imagine that we can remove the whole six million. if you

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would please do a goal seek and change that number there to the 2 million7 please. So, what we're going to show you now is what the millillage [clears throat] would need to be if we funded this budget,

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but not the debt service payment needs to be negative. >> Yes. 6.3457. That would get you this budget without the debt service payment.

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Again, that debt service payment continues till fiscal 33. >> And I'm not particularly comfortable with budgeting that way. >> Can I ask a question about the debt service payment on the bond? >> Yes, sir.

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I I know it it's it's got a schedule to pay back. You said 2033. Did the we got the when we got the bond uh was it intended to be paid back and

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sometimes bonds can be after a fact like the way we used it. And I was speaking to a gentleman who I think was the one involved with us getting the bond and he said we might want to look at uh at like

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refinancing the bond. Um and it would be a lower payment over a longer time. >> The option there is the option out there to refund the bond. Keep in mind it will cost several hundred,000 to do to accomplish that. Um, but that is an option. Um, if the commission so desires

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that we could pursue to refund that and extend the the payment term out, which would of course lower the payments. Um, I would recommend tonight that we go through, especially on the major increases that we've added to this budget, such as the four fire personnel. We remove those. We we model it here

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live and and let you see where it is. um and and and go from there unless the commission has other intentions or or other desires they would like to see tonight. >> So, Commissioner Pero, to your point about re it's called refunding. A bond

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is refunded rather than refinanced, but it's the same principle. There would be additional costs as city manager just told you. In the long run, it's like you refinancing your house. If you can't make the payment now, you may be forced

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to refinance, but in the long run, it's not to your benefit to extend your mortgage, right? Because over the life of the mortgage, you are paying substantially more money. It's the exact same thing with the bond. So, in my professional opinion, that's our last

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course of event. I would recommend exhausting every other possibility and then that be the very last recommendation I would ever make to you would be to refund the bond because in the long run it will cost the city a lot

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more money. Okay. So, um as city manager mentioned, there are several things that are easily removed. Uh, one is a million-doll investment in the multi-use fields out

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at the sports complex. Another are the additional salaries in the fine fire department. We've already taken out the rescue track. There are additional staff members as

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well. We have budgeted for an instaff attorney along with additional money for a consulting attorney. And keep in mind the the in-house attorney is approximately $240,000 annually.

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That's that's the salary plus benefits, the the cost of doing business to have that person here. That does not include any staff um for that person. that is that also includes money in the budget to have a contract with an attorney because they will not be able to do it

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all. Um so that is it is very cost prohibit prohibitive currently to have an in-house attorney. Um but again we can model anything tonight. >> It also includes a Westfall uh subscription that would be required

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west law excuse me. So, we'll we'll talk [clears throat] about that, but $240,000. What kind of baseline salary? >> That's based on $155,000 annual salary plus the benefits package. >> $20,000

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additive to go to this. >> Yes, sir. >> Pretty expensive. >> I'm not an attorney, sir. [laughter] >> All right. Um, >> what would you like to do first? Aren't we a sunshine and rainbows folks

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[laughter] tonight? Man, tough crowd. Well, Kiki, this is your uh you're driving this budgetary train discussion at this point. So, >> well, I'm all about the easy stuff, but um city manager and I have a phil philosoph philosophical difference about

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the multi-use fields. I believe that's the first thing to go. He does not agree with me. >> The first thing that should go is the four fire personnel. We do not need to add to our fire budget this fiscal year with the property tax um discussion. Um

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if we add the four personnel to fire right now, we haven't even looked at adding the the proposed uh police employees that you all discussed um at the workshop. But adding that many employees right now to the general fund is not financially feasible.

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How much would uh ballpark to for those four salaries? Harold, >> would you take the screen down, please? >> Okay, go ahead. >> Harold, I need Thank you. All right, we go. We're going to be looking at salary

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information here, so I don't want it up on the screen. So if you take just Sarah in the annual columns or or for the purposes of this discussion you just highlight the four

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rows and hit um delete. There you go. And then go back. There you go. Okay, Harold, you can put it back up now, please. >> So, just to clarify tonight, this is

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we're looking at a whole bunch of gators close to the boat. Budgetary speaking. Um, you're looking for commission inputs on the overarching >> I'm speaking right into it. I'm sorry. Um, I'm not gonna do this right here.

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[laughter] >> Oh, yay. So [sighs and gasps] tonight you're looking for overarching broad >> inputs from the commission on our biggest priorities, >> what your goals are for the city.

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>> We are tonight we're looking for what the numbers are going to be and to make sure we lay the groundwork that if that's the road we continue on until September, the commission is going to have to vote to increase the the millillage. If the commission has no

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appetite to increase the millillage, we kind of need to know now in this stage of the game so that we can go back to the drawing board and make some significant cuts and see if it's even doable um to do. Last year we made budget cuts at the very last minute to

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not increase the millillage. We didn't save money in the budget. We delayed projects. We currently have Vehicles wise, we have 23 vehicles in the fleet with over 100,000 miles. We have 21 of those are pre205 vehicles.

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So, every year when we say, "Hey, we need to take things out of the budget." Tip vehicles is one of the first things that goes. So, we just kick it down the road a little further. Um, we need we need some direction from the commission on where they're going to be with the millillage. So,

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>> so let's let's have that conversation. Frankly, um I'm a firm proponent and I know my teammates here on the DIS are as well, including the one dialing in for truth and advertising. So, let's have that discussion. Let's give our inputs and our priorities and what our biggest

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rocks are, our must pay bills, our our top priorities, what those are. We kind of mentioned them in the last budget workshop, but let's reemphasize them. let's talk about them and um then we'll adjust accordingly to you guys. We can go through the different parts and

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pieces of the budget where you want us to say cut or no cut. Um and then we'll ultimately end up with a decision there as a as a team with uh what we're proposing, giving y'all guidance to do.

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Y'all uh y'all want to kind of go down the DIS and talk about your biggest priorities and uh top focus or do you have any particular inputs you'd like to publicly share with the team and the crowd? >> Yes, ma'am.

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>> Sure. I have some priorities as far as I know that you're getting in better shape with the police department as far as having the right amount um of officers on duty now. I believe it's the last thing I heard and and

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that's a great thing. I couldn't hear. You really can't hear when you call in. I I people go in and out and get a word or two here or there. But has anybody mentioned are we short on the fire department employees

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>> as in do we have vacancies currently? >> I believe we have one vacancy uh right now in the fire department. >> Okay. So go ahead. >> No, I was just going to clarify that Commissioner Tender. So this would be not the one vacancy you have. This would

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be a net four additional entry level firefighters. >> That is correct. One of three firefighters, one inspector, and that is what the chief presented to you all at the workshop. >> Did you hear that, Commissioner Tender? >> No. Something about a chief in a

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workshop. That's all I got. >> What the chief presenting us in the ex the previous workshop. It's three fire three brand new entry- level firefighters and one inspector >> and those have been removed and we're at

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6 million for deficit. So, thank you for that, Commissioner Tinder. Commissioner Peebles, I saw you getting ready to say something. I feel like whenever we get to the budget season, I'm kind of the the downer, but I'm always my appetite is

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always going to be not raising the millillage. So, um I I'm never going to vote yes on raising the millillage. So, um, as far as priorities, uh, I think number one for me is infrastructure. Because we have so many

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people moving into Bay County and Linhaven, we got to make sure that infrastructure is our top priority because we can't we got to make sure we can handle the growth um, or the growth that's already happened. You know, how many times have we had pipes bust over

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the past few years and emergency funds come having to go in and fix stuff like that? quite a bit. And so obviously I love uh supporting the sports department too. I realize that um sports and wreck is a luxury more than it is a need, but

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it is a very high on the quality of life aspect of our city. And so uh those are the two things that are my biggest priorities. I'm just I was just putting my thoughts out there so you know where I'm at. >> Thank you, sir. Commissioner Perno, do

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you w to >> This is um I mean this is a projection for the 27 budget, right? The the six the $6 million deficit. >> So are these uh are this includes projects

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that we're that we have planned? >> So water, sewer, storm water. >> Okay. >> Um there there are projects in there. Yes, sir. But that does not affect that six 6 million there. That is the 6 million is the general fund. >> So the general fund. So where where are

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we going to find 6 million? I mean what are what what what what's your biggest idea for cutting? >> So if you keep in mind last year when we cut the budget we were flat >> but we had to dip into our reserves to make the debt service payment. If we do

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not raise the millillage this year we will dip into that reserve again to make the millage payment which is around 15.8 8 million that we have minus the almost 28 >> and at the last minute you found some insurance money or something that that helped with the budget. Correct.

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>> We adjusted our insurance allocations to the enterprise funds to help with the general fund, but we still had to dip into reserves to make our debt service payment. the 2026 budget that we are currently in

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right now, what we're we're working with now, we will have to reduce the reserves by the 2 million8. So at the by September 30th, we will have available money of approximately $13 million. That's it in

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general fund at the end of the year. fun increase this year >> through revenue. >> The we don't have the revenue numbers yet. Um we are anticipating a slight increase, but not a not a $6 million increase. >> And if if if

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the homestead goes away or the the the cuts are made through through the state through property tax, are they including that? Isn't there supposed to be a a fund that they're >> So yes, sir. From the information we're getting right now, there will be a trust

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fund set up by the state. The state will divvy out the money to the counties um which will divvy out to the cities. Um we will be at the state's mercy on the amount we get. So there will be, like I said, in-depth

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conversations of consolidation of services, especially with emergency personnel um throughout the state of Florida, not just Bay County, but throughout the state of Florida. If property tax is eliminated like it's projected, >> you have any particular priorities? Um

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>> what what are the priorities? I mean, where do you where do you cut the budget? Where do you find $6 million? >> So, we could go through we could cut out the million dollars u multi-use field. We could cut out the personnel uh cost, the the four firefighters, the in-house

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attorney. Um if we if the clerk position passes, there is a slight uh budget impact on that with a couple of increases to to accommodate that. if you all go with a finance a treasurer clerk um as well as adding a position for a budget manager

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on the city manager side of the house um we could go through and we would have to eliminate most of the vehicles aside from the enterprise funds um and delay those purchases another year and again we still would not break even to zero with a millage rate of 4.05 5, you're

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not even going to you're not going to even scratch the surface on $6 million. Correct. >> And again, >> and and even if you raise the millage by two points or or one point, let's just say, you're not going to you're not

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going to make it up. >> That's correct. >> So, what we'll [clears throat] do is just change it to 6.05. Um, in just a general question, do you foresee other municipalities like if if the property tax thing gets voted in, do

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you think there's going to be a mad a mad rush for everyone to raise their millage rates? >> There will be a mad rush of something. Yes, sir. Um, I would imagine that if you try to raise your millage rate too much that the state will do as they did

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in the past year or two and and >> from the doge and >> and they'll cut your and then you will not see >> that's right >> good money from the >> what they will do in turn I'm assuming again I don't know this is they will then hold the trust fund and if a city

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raises their millage rate too much they will say well we're not going to we're not going to give you this much of the of the trust fund. You raised your millage rate. So I would imagine that >> the control would be in the state >> balance. >> So if it does pass in November,

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it will go into effect at the state at the beginning of their fiscal year, which is June 1, which means our fiscal year starts September 30th. So should it pass in November, it will not affect the city until a fiscal 28 budget.

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So, we have a little time to plan for that reduction and currently we're assuming that reduction will be somewhere between a million6 and 2.3 million over and above what we're talking about

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right now. >> So, Commissioner Perno, thank you for that. Commissioner War, I want to give you an opportunity as well, and then I'll caboose with what your biggest priorities are and still what you want to focus on as we kick off this uh

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budget discussion. >> I think we need to come to the realization that everything's on the table, everything. And we need to get out of our comfort zone and think, you know, if we think that the military is going to stay the same,

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that it's not possible. But we've kicked this can down the road so many times. I know it's uncomfortable, but we have to do what's right. And if that means we got to cut some positions, we'll cut some positions. But no matter

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how many positions you cut, it's not going to put a a dent in that 6.6. So that's my feeling. >> So I had her change the millillage, add it, added two points to the millillage.

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We're now at 6.05. We've re taken out the firefighters and we're still $3 million in the hole. >> Yeah. And that that's that's a huge increase in the mill that's going to send. >> Yeah.

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So, I'll be the caboose here. Um I agree with Commissioner War and uh for the most part Commissioner Peoples and Commissioner Tender as well. Um everything's got to be on the table. We all have our priorities and focus. Uh my

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utmost priority is for our first responders, particularly the police. Um they've had three positions, three uniformed officer positions cut that they shouldn't have. They actually got cannibalized the last couple of years to fund salaries. Um

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>> she please >> salary discussion. We will wait until the evergreen is back. Um, but I will tell you in the preliminary that is not a hot topic in in that department. >> Okay, Harold, you can put it up. >> Well, I that's my top priority is for

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our first responders, particularly the cops who are in a deficit who have been made [clears throat] tremendous turmoil. Um, but everything is obviously on the table. We're going to have to make some uncomfortable collective team decisions here and we will try to do the very

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utmost best we can to work with y'all and support the core essential priorities we have. To Commissioner War's point, this is going to be tough. There's going to be some significant belt tightening and it's [clears throat] not going to be fun.

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We're going to do it with you. So this budget that you have in front of you now does shows no change in the police department. We still have 48 staff members. That does include all support staff and the

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only change is um the promotion for uh Captain Plateock. So exactly the same staffing level that they have this year. No reductions in the police department. I'm not sure what you were referring to, Mayor.

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>> That was a decision that was made about two years ago by a former chief to to make personnel changes happen. Uh but it is until we can run consistently fully staffed. Doesn't make

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sense at the moment to add staff right now. >> I disagree. They're about to fill their last three vacant positions. But anyway, that's that's a point we can we don't need to spar about right now. I'm just

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telling you what my priority are. First responders and of the first responders, it's the because they have gotten the least amount of love and resourcing over the last several years. They've actually gone down compared to any of the other departments. So,

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collectively, >> can we pull up the police department budget, please? So, let's see if we can put this in the screen so the audience can see it. Can you move it to the right? >> We had this discussion and the the police chief and Kiki kind of sparred a little bit about what percentage was

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more accurate and the baseline or the whole compared to the other departmental going up. >> Yeah. either number you picked it was still a net lower than the other. >> So absolutely not saying that our police department budget isn't lower compared to others. What I am saying is the

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police department budget has increased. The entire city budget has increased as well >> but our revenues are have not increased the past few years. >> Just telling you I asked the other commissioners to give their priority. I'm giving you mine. >> I understand and that's what this

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discussion is for. Right. >> So, um I'm trying to make it so the audience doesn't see the numbers in the bars. So, this is a little skewed. Do you see the bold numbers at the bottom of the columns? Oops. And yeah. So, in

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24, those are the personnel numbers, the dollar amounts for personnel. In 24, 3,9 in 25, 3,ion8. The actuals for on 20 um six were 2 million2 that was a year um

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>> sorry that's half a year approximately half a year the budget for this year is 4 million and we're with the increase that I discussed the evergreen study um I've uh smoothed it over the entire

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city would get us to 4 million3 so it may not work out to be exactly that number because again my estimate was give everybody an even increase. Uh all the staff members in this room would get the same increase and that's not what

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they will eventually recommend. It was just they gave me a dollar amount and I just put it in for evenly for everyone. So this may shake out a little bit different. But as you can see we're growing every year for the for the uh budget for

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personnel for police. If you go down to the bottom, please. [clears throat] All right. So, that's their total budget. The very bottom one in the um bold with the blue background. 24 was 4 million 9. 25 was 5 million2.

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We're halfway through 26. They're spent 2 million7 with a budget of uh 4 million 9. And this budget that you have in front of you has 5 million4. >> Okay. >> So it is increasing every year.

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>> The amount of the percentage is the uh discussion point there. And thank you for that. And um one other tidbit on this city manager to your point. Was it Callaway that merged or was it Parker that merged? Callaway that merged with the Bay County Sheriff's and did away

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with their department. Um, you know, I I'm not a fan of that concept, but I realize as this happens across the state, there may be more and more of those consolidations happening across Florida. >> And and keep in mind too, mayor, that

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just for the conversation, no one think we're doing this today, but if we were to do that, if if we were to do away with our police department and become under the sheriff's office, that's not a $5.4 4 million savings for the city. Uh we would still pay the sheriff's office.

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So don't want the residents to think that we're going to save $5.4 million. We still have to pay the sheriff's office for doing that. And we don't know what that number would be. It would would it be less than 5.4? More than likely, yes. But we don't we would not say 5.4 million immediately.

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>> My understanding too is that the cost like the dollar per officer that you get is higher when you do it that way. like the amount of dollars that you'd spend versus the amount of officers you'd get supporting. You'd be like, let's just use some easy math. If it just simple

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math, if we were spending $5 per officer and we could have 20 officers, you'd spend $10 per officer with the county, so you wouldn't be getting as many officers. >> Yes, I've seen the study like that. And

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yeah, that's it's more per person but less coverage is basically how it shakes out to be. >> Basically, the services that you would get would not be as quality as what we get now. >> Our response time is 2 to 3 minutes right now and it would likely go to 12

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to 14 minutes very easily. >> Not a fan of that at all. >> I do think there are some ways um some creative ways. Um, I haven't even discussed with the with the chief yet, but if we get down that road with the property tax, I think there are some creative ways to save with the police department, still keeping police

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personnel on city as city staff. Um, but that's a a talk down the road uh once we see how property tax shakes out. This is certainly going to be a brave new world budgetarywise. >> We are facing tough decisions. That is

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correct. Just for the record, you're not allowed to retire anytime soon. I'm just telling you, just giving you fair warning. We love you, but [laughter] we're going to make you stay around for a while. >> So, just to kind of generate some of the conversation, I would say let's remove

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the in-house attorney. Let's remove the the multi-use fields. >> Harold, would you take a a screen down, please? >> We need to actually see who all applies with >> to legal

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before we shoot that down. >> Well, budgetarywise, that's almost doubling the legal fee budget by having both um projecting it out because we don't know what it would be. We had one applicant for in-house um and the the rest of it is due on the

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11th. >> So, we will get many more than one applicant for for that portion. understand, but until we make a decision as a team, I would say, >> well, we're not saying to cut it. We're

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to model. >> Okay, Harold, you can put it back up now, please. >> We're not voting on anything official tonight to to keep in the budget. I'm just trying to show it as a model. >> 405, please. >> Okay, we're we've taken out the

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multi-use fields. We've taken out the in-house attorney. We've taken out the additional firefighters. We have left the millillage at 4.05 and we're still at a deficit of 5 million3. >> Is that with or without? Did you say the

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multi-use fields came out? >> Gone. >> So, what's next on the job? So, bad news about taking out the in-house attorney is we're probably going to have to add money for the outside attorney. >> Right.

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>> So, if you would go to 512, please. >> The we also pretty substantial um project the $80,000 and the rails to trails crossings that is not doing all of them. I believe that was uh two of those. Um it's going to help

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>> 20 grand per light times two per intersection. So that gets us two intersections for the rails to trails. Pretty substantial there. It was one was at 389 and one was at Mosley Drive. Um like I said, we have several vehicles in the general fund um

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that would likely have to be cut. >> All right. I pumped up the money for the um out out of house attorney, the contractual attorney. >> I'm sorry, what did you just say? I was staring at your spreadsheet.

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>> We've added additional funds for the attorney, but we have removed the in-house attorney. So if we contract with a firm it will be more expensive. I've had to add some

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money for that which is a possibility. We [clears throat] did have a a single applicant for an in-house attorney. We still have to look at we have the contract. Actually you have two contracts, right?

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We have a labor attorney and then we have a general law attorney. Um, you've added money to that. Okay. What's next? Are you looking for inputs or guidance here or what? >> We are

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>> terms of what >> do far as millage rate. Do do we want to exclude any new vehicle purchases in the general fund? Do we want to look at a hiring fee hiring freeze for all

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vacant positions in fiscal year 27 and excluding those from being funded? Are we looking at cutting maintenance in the street departments? Are we looking at any other particular cuts that the commission has in mind? Again, no matter

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what we cut right there, the millage is still going to have to be increased to prevent us from going into the reserves. So, I'm not going to try to speak for any of the rest of the commission here, but I I kind of feel like we're we're kind of u like a cat on a hot tin roof

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here. I mean, your department heads, if you were to say, "Okay, we need to do a 10% cut." I think the department heads would have a much better idea of where they could absorb a 10% cut across the board, right, than us five. >> Yeah. So, we're not asking you all to go through line item and make the cut.

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We're asking what cut do you want? Do you want to increase the millillage to only include the $2.8 million debt service payment or are you or does the commission going to tell staff we are not raising the millillage at all this year and we're going to have a $2.8

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million deficit again. >> I already said what I said, but it's going to have to go up. I mean, >> so could we do the set the millage rate at whatever it would be to be zero with just the debt service payment as the

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only increase >> right now? Yes. >> 605, right? >> Mayor. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Has to be negative. >> I just wanted to bring this up. I thought a while back, and I could be wrong, but I thought it was a while back

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that uh we were told we were going to get a spreadsheet of all the salaries of all the employees, you know, with uh what the top dog is getting paid and what the um the others are getting paid. I think we need to see that too to see

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if we're even being are we losing employees to other cities. >> That is what the south >> pay. >> Yes, ma'am. That is what the findings of the salary study uh will show once it is complete. >> All right. So with the cuts that we've

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done thus far, if we continue in 27 with what we've done in 26 and show a def deficit of just the debt service payment to be able to balance that budget, your millage

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would have to be 5.6304. And that is not increasing anything from fiscal year 26 >> from a current mills rate of 4.05. >> Correct. >> So, and again I don't have revenue numbers

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from the state and I don't have uh medical benefit numbers which I assume will increase. They typically do every year. uh not monumentally but there will be some sort of increase.

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Now the other um topic I brought up to city manager which no one has an appetite for but could possibly help us um is switching to a 4-day work week. And that doesn't mean 410s, that means 48s,

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which means that staff, as myself, would take actually a salary reduction. But salaries are the large part of the general fund. And it puts more burden on the staff members because

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what we do by definition we would still have to do that work. We would just have fewer hours to do the same amount of work in. So from a morale point of view that's on the bottom of the list of possibilities.

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Well, I think we have to have all options on the table. Um, I I am a nod in the wool, straight shooting conservative. Um, and I am not a fan of tax increases whatsoever. There also has to be a point of reality here. Prices

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have gone up exponentially. Fuel has gone up exponentially. Medical has gone up exponentially. You either cut your intake or you cut your burn rate. That's one of the two, right? Or a combination of the two. Now, we are constrained to

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begin with per state law on how much we can up the millillage even under the most legit and leanest of budget circumstances. >> So, this is definitely playing with knives. Um, and you have to be on the razor's edge. And whatever we do, we

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need to be as transparent as humanly possible. We need to be as factual as humanly possible. And whether you're a Johnny Basher or a Corey Langford sitting here watching us in the audience or you're somebody watching online, um they need to be able to have a very clear idea of what we're looking at and

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what we're juggling and what we're trying to do most right honorable transparent thing we can here to set a budget to keep the city operating uh with the the highest priorities of keeping our utilities going, our citizens safe in terms of police and

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fire um and everything else is secondary to those core triage services. >> So the other option and other option um in fiscal 26 we focused on reducing

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the marketing budget. Of course not everyone was happy with that but I think we've settled down into a reality that that was the correct thing to do. In my mind, the next budget to look at would be sports and wreck. It is not an

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essential service. It is a quality of life. It absolutely adds to the quality of life in Linhaven, but it is not an essential service. Yeah, I mean that's true. Um, I don't know if this is the time or place to

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talk about it, but we definitely at a minimum need to relook at the fee schedule um, for sports and wreck because then looking at what the county charges, what uh, Panama City and other places charge and we even though we have

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the best, we charge the least on a lot of things. Um, specifically, one of the things that I've noticed is that, um, you know, it's not just Linhaven citizens that utilize our sports and wreck. So,

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we've got to find a way that if we've got people that are not paying taxes to our city to use our services, they need to be making up the difference. I mean, they can't make it up 100%. Because sports and wreck will always be a service. It's not a revenue generating

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type thing. But for example, I think it right now it costs $35 to rent a field. In today's travel ball world, you could charge $300 to rent a field and it'd still get rented. You know what I'm saying? So, like we got to look at things like that. Um maybe it could be

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um something as simple as if if you if you we set a schedule for our wreck ball teams and they get Tuesdays and Thursdays and then the sport the staff schedules the practices for the coaches. There's going to be coaches that are going to be upset about that, but the

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reality is is uh it costs a lot of money to to run all that stuff. And then anything outside of that, you need to charge a pretty large amount to to rent the field. Because what I've seen, and it's not the staff's fault, it's because it's impossible to track it

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really, is that you're going to have coaches that are using >> their them being a wreck ball coach, but then reserving the field for their wreck ball team, and then bringing in a travel ball team and using the field. And

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that's not the staff's fault. There's no way they can track that. I mean, there might be, but that's going to be a tremendous amount of manh hours to figure that out. So, we got to find a way that we prevent that from happening cuz we can offsets. We're not going to fun, like I said, we're not going to fund the

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whole thing, but we need to find ways to better offset the cost because um there's definitely ways to do it. Uh it's not going to, you know, bump the but it's not going to get our millage rate down by a ton. Um and and there's no way to forecast exactly what those

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funds will be. It's very difficult to forecast what someone might rent. But um we definitely need to look at that fee schedule, a hard long look at that cuz it's um in need for some updates, especially with people that are not

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citizens of Linhaven. >> Kiki, I will say one other thing. I am not a fan at all of I appreciate you're literally cutting past muscle into bone to do your employees down to 32 hours a

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week. Um any leadership 101, any org management course will tell you that your employees are your greatest resource. um to actually put them in a job insecurity type phase where they're now struggling to pay their bills and

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having to free agent or you know whatever is it it >> I agree with you. It's a terrible idea but I have to at least express that from a numeric point of view that's an option. >> Right. Understood. Everything can be on

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the table but some things should not realistically be on the table. And I would say that's one of them. I would say we cut 10% of our workforce before we cut every employee down quarter of their hours. Right? So there there's a

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certain amount of continuity and fairness that needs to be put in place here. And I just wanted to go ahead and say that publicly for the record. >> I understand. So the sports and wreck department, we were able to uh cut

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$75,000. We are still spending a million4. There is some revenue as commissioner peoples mentioned there is revenue that comes in. It's nothing close to a million4. Uh

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we are constrained uh with the facilities that we have. Uh Mr. Ward has done a remarkable job with the department. And I don't want him to feel that I don't support him 100% because he has done an amazing job

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with the department. This is a quality of life issue. It's not a safety issue. People need to know that when they pick up the phone and call 911 that they're going to get a response. While we would love to have beautiful

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football fields and multi-use fields and a rec center and all those fabulous things, right now is not the time for Linhaven to be focused on those. >> I know we have Don't we have some land out in Southport? >> Yes, sir. [clears throat]

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>> Any idea how much that's worth? >> Yes, sir. We appraised it. Um I can pull up the appraisals right now. >> I think it was $600,000. It's owned by the sewer department. That doesn't help anybody. >> If we sold that property, the money would go to the sewer department. Does not go to the general fund.

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>> I would not recommend selling that property. >> All right. We don't have anything else besides >> No, sir. We we um back when Mr. Schubert was the city manager, Mr. Jackson was probably here during that time, but I think um uh Mr. Schubert went through and actually surplused a ton of city

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property that they had at that time and got that off the books. So we are very lean on our property that we the city owns. >> There is a cola in here. We can tinker with the cola.

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Um the CPI for the nation today is 3.81. We have included that for existing staff. Harold, would you take the screen down, please? All right, Harold. That's no cola.

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What are we looking at? >> That's no cola, but >> zero cola, >> but everything else is still in there. Or is this no cola without the multi-use field? Without the >> I'm taking things away. >> Okay, got it. Just want to make [clears throat] sure I'm on the same page. >> I haven't put anything back in yet.

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>> So, that was about >> 400,000. Maybe 300,000. >> Look like 300,000 give or take. Um, it does still include what we Evergreen told us we needed to increase by. We can take that out,

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>> which is roughly how much? >> Half a million >> for the whole city. That includes all the enterprise funds. >> You want me to do that next? Harold, please take the screen now. All right, here. That's no increases. That's no salary

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study. That's no cola. This does not include vehicles, correct? >> No. So, there are still some vehicle purchases in there, but you're looking at for the general fund maybe 175,000.

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We've got two Ford Mavericks in the fleet department. I'm sorry, in the facilities department. Uh we have a vehicle, I believe, in the parks department or animal control. >> All right. There's um this is facility maintenance. Can you read the note on the 60,000?

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>> That's two Ford Mavericks there. All >> right. Go ahead and take those out, Andrea, please. >> Where were the other vehicles? >> Where were the other vehicles? >> We had originally some in either parks or animal control. We may have already removed the one in animal control.

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>> 573. Oh, well, we have some things here in the parks department we could look at. Go down to the bottom, please. We've got a sun shade at King Griffin. We've got a swing set at Porter. And we've got uh the pavilion at Kinsaw.

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That's 80,000. Is that pavilion if we took that's replacing the splash pad? >> Yes, sir. That is, you know, what we talked about in several of the workshops where it would go. >> And keep in mind, too, that's something

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that we've gotten a lot of feedback from from residents requesting. >> We just got an email on it. >> Yeah, we did. >> Cheers. >> Hate to bring this up, but >> leave them in there for now. >> The uh James Rogers Park. >> Yes, sir.

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>> You don't have any general fund. >> So, it comes out of the disaster fund, which will affect the general fund. Yes, sir. So if we were to cut that, >> that's in fiscal year 26. It's not in 27. >> It is not in this budget. >> No, sir. >> But but that would cause funds more

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funds to be available for next fiscal year, right? >> No, sir. Just the reserves what we're dipping into. >> But I mean that that money has to go somewhere. So it's got to move forward to the next fiscal year. >> Well, it's in fiscal year 26's budget,

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>> right? But if we don't do that, right, and we don't spend that money, what is it about 1.1 1.2 million? >> It's 1.1 million in the budget. We don't think the bids will come in at that. Um, but yes, it would unencumber it, but it's not going to give you any more money for next year. No, sir.

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>> It would put it in the reserves though, >> right? >> We already pulled from the reserves, so we're not We had to pull from the reserves to make the debt service payment. So, we're not if we don't do the project, we're not adding back to the reserves. >> We'll just take less out of the reserves

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if you don't do the project. >> Right. That's what I mean. Something has to go up. >> You will take less money out of the reserves >> by 1.1 million. >> Yes. >> Right. >> 26. We haven't included this in James Rogers in 27. >> Right. So, it's not going to affect

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anything when you look. Are you saying you could if you don't do James Rogers, you could use the 1.1 million for the towards the debt service payment and would have a little bit more in reserves, >> right? >> I mean, yeah, you would have a little bit more in reserves. >> Okay.

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>> So, theoretically, just theoretically here, let's say the millage rate didn't increase, we'd have to pull from the reserves to cover stuff. The amount we pulled from the reserve would be less if we didn't

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do James Rogers. >> Right. >> Got it. >> Correct. >> No matter what, if the millage rate does not increase, we're pulling from the reserves. So how in the air force when you had a arbitrary cut like whatever the

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percentage is across the board you would rally your department heads and your subject matter experts and you go okay we have to cut x% 30% 10% 25%. Um I understand we need to give you some

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type of big picture overarching. Yeah, we'll look at the millage rate increasing, but we're not going to like it. But we could probably at least consider it versus hell no, we got to make the 4.05 work come hell or high water and make it work. That could drive

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two very different budget cut numbers. But how much of those cut drills have y'all done or is that what you anticipating what you anticipate kicking off with once we give you commission inputs from? >> Yes, sir. If you all say, if you all give the direction that you have no

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appetite for increasing the millillage, then we will go back to the budget and say we're rep prioritizing internally, we're cutting vehicles, we're cutting pavilions, um potentially have to cut positions, um whatever it takes to get the number that you all have given us.

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>> And realistically, even if we were to say, okay, we can we might be able to stomach a I don't know 4.05 to a 5.0 know military, right? That would give you uh a certain amount of playing room, wiggle room, budgetary speaking, right?

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But that's still going to drive significant cuts just to be able to balance the budget. >> Oh, yes, sir. So, what we've laid out before, we we have significant cuts to go back to get done, >> right? >> Because this is still the the the overarching number we're working with on

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column J there. That's still the budget that y'all briefed us on six, seven weeks ago, right? That was everything that was needed was brought forward basically on a wish list, right? >> That was what we started at around was it 6.8 million deficit, 6.9 million. Um,

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as you can see, we've cut it down to three tonight. >> Well, now we've up the millillage to five. With the millage at five, we'd have a deficit of just over $3 million. Is that with all the stuff that you took out already? >> I haven't put anything back in. There is

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no cola. There's no additional fire uh personnel. There's no city attorney. There is no um multi-use field. Haven't put anything back in. >> There's no salary study increases. and you're and your millage is at five

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and you're still uh have a deficit of larger than the debt service payment. >> Could you go to the uh marketing budget, please >> 574? >> We have not the marketing budget is one that we have

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not done uh for fiscal year 27. However, we've carried over uh Miss Mars just copied 26 into 27's column, but if you recall, we cut out last year, as Miss Roman alluded to earlier, >> the trunk or treat, um the Easter egg hunt, we cut down on our concert series,

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and we're we've cut down on staff in that department. Um and you can see where we would be if we kept everything status quo uh today. That is something too that the commission if you wanted to look at of do we want to do away with

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concerts altogether unless it's 100% sponsorship paid do we want to do away with the July 4th festivities I mean I don't think anyone wants that but is that something that you all would >> would entertain >> it's a half million dollars give or take

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>> yes sir it's quite expensive to do those events [snorts] >> half of it isn't in salaries. >> Ma'am, what' you say? >> Half of it is in salaries. >> Okay. >> Go down to the bottom again, please.

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>> I mean, I've always been a proponent that they should be sponsored. I mean, we have we have people that are willing to sponsor these things. Uh the hard part though is that by going fully sponsored, you're

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probably going to have a few years gap that you're going to lose the events and then you'll lose the momentum of the events and then to get the and people that want to sponsor an event need to know that the event is going to be successful or they're not going to pay for the sponsorship. So

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there's got to be a fair balance, but I want to continue to trend towards being more sponsored because it the sponsors will show up. Um the hard part is finding

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staff or us or whoever other citizens if they want to help out our uh community services board or or planning commission can get involved. Um but we have to promote that we're accepting pro uh

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donations for it to work. But um I mean especially like concerts in the park, they're amazing. People love them. they show up. I mean like Will Thompson's guaranteed to have AL I mean uh Sheffield full. So with that with

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knowing that people are going to sponsor that like if you have the right you know talent coming in or whatever um there's other things we can do to bring in money too but um I mean we talked about it with the the naming of the fields and things like

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that. I mean let's just do some math, right? If you did a one-year if you did a one-year contract for $20,000 per field, that's a huge part of your marketing budget right there. Um, we got to figure out how to do that. I mean,

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we're we're we're going on the right track. We've done the policies for it. Now, we got to put in the leg work to get the sponsors to come in. But as far as events go, um, they in in my opinion should be largely funded by sponsor money, not city money.

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uh the city's donation is that they are providing the space and then if people want to show up and people want to sponsor it then it'll happen. >> City manager, if I remember correctly, the fields at the sports complex are

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already named. Is that correct? >> The baseball fields are. Yes. >> They already have names. >> You charging people for those names? No. They were assigned names years ago. >> Years ago. >> Are they named after people or after a business? >> People. >> People.

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>> All right. So, you can still do that. So, let's use Kang Griffin Park for example. They have David H. Hearnen Field. It could be David H. Hearnden Field presented by Publix. You're still having David Hearnen Field,

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but it's presented by a sponsor. There's ways to do it. They do it all over the nation. Mayor. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Um I I just want to voice my opinion here. >> Sure. >> Um I agree I agree with uh Commissioner

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Peoples that some of these things they seem that it would work if a local business wanted to sponsor all the advertisement we put on look at and everything from the city. it would just be shifted to the person or the company

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that's paying for it to get that advertisement out for them rather than, you know, rather than for us. I think I think that would work. The other thing I want to say is I also agree with him on the sports part. We have got to start

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charging people that don't even live in Lyn Haven and teams. We need to start charging them for that. we're just letting them come and play for free and and uh I think it um makes for bad blood, >> you know. So, I agree with that also. I

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think we need to start charging for what we're giving them and letting them have. >> So, >> and I'm only saying this because I'm going to hang up after this because I can't hear but about every third word and so none of it's making any sense to me. But I do also want to just add at

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this meeting that in 2017 within a month after I was elected, I went and sat down with Tommy Ford or who it was Tommy Ford. I know. And I said, or maybe it was the second time I was elected and I said, "I want to talk to you about you

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taking over the Lin Haven Police Department. How would that work if the sheriff's department took care of our city?" His first reaction was his mouth dropped open. He said, "Please don't ever tell anybody we

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had this conversation because they will all become very nervous." I said, "Okay." And I said, "Wouldn't you just hire all of the Lynhaven police officers and they work for Bay County Sheriff's Department?" He said, "Well, we would

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have to hire quite a few to give you the coverage that you need." Um, but he was very adamant about don't even mention this. Uh, don't even go there. But I only reason I went to him was because that was so logical to me. But I also

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agree with you, mayor. Our police coverage has got to be exemplary. I I think our police department is so important. It makes people feel safe. And, you know, nobody ever thinks they're going to have a house burned down, and they do. I get that. But more

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and more in today's world, people worry about gosh, if somebody's walking through my backyard, how long will it take the police to get here? So, I think the police should be the priority. And the last thing I'm going to say is I still would like to see that spreadsheet

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of every single employee at the city of Linhaven and how much they make an hour. And let's see where that can get spread out. If if we have things that no other city has, I hate to use the word min or

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anything like that, but if we offer um a lot more than you can get living in Callaway or somewhere else, then I think people are willing to pay at Scotchmore. They don't want to get robbed, but um you you always want to at least get what

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you're paying for. So anyway, I'm gonna leave you all because I can't really hear anything anyway, but I've voiced my opinion. >> Thank you, ma'am. You guys say something. >> Thank you. >> So, I would say that no one plays in our rec recreation leagues for free, um, no

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matter where they're they're from. U, but also, if you all want to talk about charging people, um, we have tons of of non-Lhaven residents that use our splash pad, charging a fee for the splash pad would be a place to start as well. Um, that is something that we offer for

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free. It cost us money for the staff to to man it. It cost us money to operate it. Uh, we've had numerous claims over the years. So, charging a fee for the splash pad would be a place to start as well. >> How hard would it be to just implement like a you go down to city hall, get a

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wristband or something like that? um for because I've I've had conversations with people in this in the past and I'm glad you brought it up because I don't think we should charge the Linhaven citizens because they their taxes paid to build it. Um but if it's someone coming from

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let's I mean we've had it to where people have driven up with buses from kids from two cities over taking up the entire splash pad. Um, >> yeah. So, I would more recommend that we do a a an armband for Linhaven residents

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and an armband for non-Linhaven residents. Um, and still charge the Lin Haven res. It can be minimal, you know, the $20 annual pass or whatever. Um, but if not, you're going to have Aunt Kathy come up with 15 kids and and

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friends that, oh yeah, everybody's in Haven because here's my ID. and you're not going to really be able to to keep track of it without the buying an annual pass or a weekend pass or however we wanted to do it. >> There's also additional staff required

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to do anything like that. Currently, we have younger employees who monitor for safety primarily. Now we're having to give them cash or credit card machines or there would be a diff additional

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responsibilities for those staff members. >> Can you um bring up all the special events, what they are and how much how much do we pay for all those? >> Okay. Uh Dylan

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right there. So these are the costs of hard goods, things that we have to purchase. This does not factor in staff time or um any overhead or anything of that nature.

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Can you make um column wider, please? >> 81,000 >> in purchasing goods. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Good. Good. There you go. Soon now you should be able to read the uh labels a little easier. As you can see, we have

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significantly cut these uh from last year. You heard me talk about the July 4th uh event, July 4th and uh Christmas. There's a a significant amount of overtime for

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the police and the fire department. Those dollars are not included here. Those are charged to the actual departments. I have no way of telling you off the top of my head exactly what the overtime costs are for the events. Um so again, these numbers are we have

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to go out and buy candy or um decorations or rent exhibits or that sort of thing. Fireworks. The fireworks are above I believe we cut that down to $35,000 this year. Is that true?

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>> We did. Yes. >> And I think how we did that was just to um cut the time involved. Is that correct measure? >> So instead of 25 minutes, it's going to be 20 minutes or something like that. But again, these are just hard costs. No

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staff time. I mean, an option is I know it wouldn't be popular, but suspend all events until unless someone wants to sponsor them. But I don't [clears throat and snorts] not saying we shouldn't look at this,

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but I just Is it really going to be a whole lot of money? I think the bigger expense is probably the employees. >> Yes, staff is the single biggest expense you

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have. >> And again, we've already taken out the cola and the what the preliminary number I was given by Evergreen, that's all gone. So all staff would be making the same amount of money next year that they're making this

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year in this budget right now. So we have at le we've talked about at least two different courses of action or COAs here. Um, leaving the millage rate as it is at 4.05. We've thrown out a theoretical 5.0

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mills. Um, so there's one change nothing steeper budget cuts. There's one raise the millage rate slightly. Are you looking for a third course of action or those two?

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>> I think we have to do a number of different things. I think we have to do a little bit of everything. I'm just talking big rocks, the the basic planning factors, because if you keep a 4.05 mil rate, you're probably looking at a much more of a 30

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>> 30% cut. >> Now we're at 4.7 >> versus if you do a 5.0 cut >> or a mill rate of five, you're probably looking at maybe not 30, but you're looking at a 20 or 25% cut for budget.

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>> Five gets you three million deficit. and we have to bridge that gap, right? So, it's it's a cut fat, then cut selective muscle, and try not to cut bone is is what we're looking at.

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>> I'm just glad that we're having this conversation now as opposed to what we did in the past where we would wait until mid to late August to have these conversations. >> Agreed. I wish we did this when I first started because it makes a big

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difference having these discussions now. [snorts] >> Absolutely. >> We have to be the adults in the room and this is not going to be fun and it's not going to be popular, but we have to be fair and we have to be honorable and we have to be transparent about it. >> Agreed.

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So, I would say that after tonight's discussion, we will go back um unless you all tell us otherwise in the next few minutes, we will anticipate that the commission will entertain a millage rate increase um to at least get us

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a smaller deficit than where we're at right now. Uh we will go back through the budget. We will continue cuts. We will present that again. We will ask for another workshop um to discuss publicly with all of you. So would would the rest of the

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commission be amanable to basically giving Kiki as our head number cruncher here three COAs courses of action if you will. So course of option or COA a would be the status quo 4.05 05 mills and what

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kind of cuts that would entail a a slight mill rate perhaps say 4.55 so a half a half a mill raise and then a COA C would be like a 4.05

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that's still well south of the Bay County of 5.63 63. But it's basically a status quo, a small raise, and a heftier one mill raise. >> Okay. So, just so that you're aware, all of those things that we've taken out, I

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haven't put anything back in, everything is gone. No increases for staff, no multi-use fields, no city attorney, no additional firefighters. to apply the same logic next year that we use this year. Meaning that we pay

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for everything except the debt service. Going to have to be at 5.186. >> But this still counts for most of the wish list. >> No, sir. She removed all of that. Sitting >> entire the entire wish list is gone. >> All the big ticket items are gone. There's little little things in there

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still, but all the big dollar singular dollar value things are gone. copy, but there are still a fair number of wish list items. >> No, sir. Not a fair number. Maybe 200 grand at the most. >> Okay. Across the entire city.

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>> General fund. >> Yes, sir. >> General fund. >> General fund. >> Okay. So, again, that's muscle or that's that would be the fat, right? That would be the nice to have or and then you're going to have the core essential stuff. You we're we're very go we're very quickly going to run out of fat

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budgetary speaking wise. And then it's strategic cutting of muscle and doing our best not to cut the bone. Right. So other than the three COAs, no increase, a small increase, a 1m increase, would

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that give you enough of a three options to work and play with to come back and propose various ways to actually bridge this 2.769 mil gap? the the only other way that

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you're going to bridge that after you have a few wishlist items of the you know the few vehicles the pavilion the next thing would be staff cuts >> so I think what what he's getting at is if you look at this sheet right here even with a 5.1866

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proposed millage rate to that amount >> right >> and cutting out the firefighters the multi-use field all that stuff we still would have to take $2.769 or $2.7 million out of our reserves just to balance our budget. >> That's correct.

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>> That is correct. >> We could probably get that number down with vehicles and a few other capital purchases, maybe tightening the belt on, you know, operating supplies and expendable equipment here and there. We could probably get that number to 2.5

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right now. Then then the remaining 2.5 would if you wanted to break even would be staff cuts. >> Well, I would turn off a pavilion before I'd cut staff. >> The pavilion is $50,000. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying once we cut the

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pavilion, the vehicles and everything, we could probably get us down to about 25 deficit. >> But again, there is no increase in here. There's no cola. There's no salary stat. There's no increase to medical benefits.

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or liability insurance >> 10% 10% >> I think what we need is we need the well me I prefer electronically um not this obviously but the like how we normally have the budget

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>> that you present something like that >> to show all the amounts that way we can all review it and then sit down with the city manager and you possibly yourself >> I can give you whatever you like would you like what we started the evening

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with with the $6 million deficit? >> I would say yes. >> Yes. Okay. >> We can get that to >> One thing I want to do is we have a a handful of our regulars here and I want to be courteous to y'all. Um I'd like to open the floor to y'all if y'all have

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any thoughts or comments that y'all would like to add. Y'all are not the Johnny or Jane come lately. Um, so if y'all got some words of wisdom that y'all have, uh, we'll be glad to open the floor. Johnny, and then I saw you, Corey. Um,

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yes, sir. >> The base of it. Johnny, >> thank you. Okay. So, life safety is the first thing, the fire and the police. You've got to you the city's got to provide for that. So, that's got to be priority one. The second priority is water, sewer, garbage. That's an enterprise fund. You're not discussing

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that here tonight. So, we're not worried about that. Storm water should be, in my opinion, probably the third priority. And then the debt service. You got to cover the debt service. And then parks and wreck is a quality of life. Unfortunately, falls toward the bottom of those priorities for me. I think

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that's where my priorities are. I did want to say a little bit about the millage rate. My house last year was assessed at $233,000. My total tax bill was about $3,000. But of that $3,000,

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only $820 went to Linhaven. The rest went to the county, to the schools, etc. If you increase the millage rate by 20%, my taxes will go up $164 a year. That's not going to kill me. I know people are on fixed incomes and everything, but

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when you look at the millage rate, the part that goes to Linhaven is not as great as people think you're going to see from just Lin Haven. So, I want you to be aware of that. I don't, as a Linhaven resident, I don't want to give up the three minute response time for $164 a year. I just don't want to do it.

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Um, that that doesn't include appreciation and increase in value in my property, but I I understand how that works. The 2026 budget had $1.8 $8 million in it for economic development. Was that covered by grants that we just

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respend or is that straight out of our pocket? >> One moment, please. >> So, while she looks that up, a good bit of that was the the grant. Uh you had the Florida Avenue, Ohio design in there. You had the Tennessee Avenue sidewalk. So, not all 1.8 million of

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that was out of the general fund there. a portion of it was, but a good bit of it was grant funded. >> Right. So, my follow on question is what do we get for what we put into that that's not coming in for grants? Um, what is our benefit to the city? I know there's some economic development that's

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necessary, but just how much we do. To me, that's one place we might want to look at that. I don't know what's in the budget this year for economic development. >> Would you like me to answer? Okay. Um fiscal 26 the economic development

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budget is $1.9 million of which 1 point almost two is the Tennessee Avenue which FOT is paying for and $625,000 was the CDBG money for the Florida and Ohio Avenue. >> Okay. So most of it was covered by grants.

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>> Correct. The lion share of it 1.7 plus. >> What about 2027? What's the economic development budget? We've got 3.7 million in there. Also grant funded for the Florida and Ohio Avenue. If you take that number out, please. The rest is

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$95,31. >> Okay. Uh last thing is the infrastructure SH tax that we get in every year. I know we use it for legislative paving and what have you. Have we considered using that as part of using it for like streets? I know we've

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got a pretty good size budget for our street department. Um how does that work out? >> Yes. We use it in the street, but we can't use it to fund the, you know, the salaries and stuff like that. >> Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Well, those are my first first review of this. I hadn't seen all the numbers, but it would be nice like y'all are going to

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get to see all of the different line items. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Mr. Langford. >> Good evening. Good evening. First of all, thank you for giving us an opportunity to speak. It was kind of frustrating sitting back there watching like, man, why don't you ask this? Why

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don't you ask that? the [clears throat] um the numbers that you had up there, does it include the 2.7 coming from the enterprise over to the general fund or not? >> The indirect allocation allocation does include the indirect >> does include that. >> Okay.

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>> Um that was my biggest question. Um it's probably not going to be popular, but uh here's what I would do. I would say let's go back to last year's budget and let's start there before we add anything else. Let's start

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cutting from last year's budget. And then I want a list of all of the stuff that you want to add as to how we got to 20. It's not up on the screen anymore. 26 mil, I think, is what it was. So, [clears throat] we were at 24 mil last

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year, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. proposing 26 mill this year. Year before last, we were at 21.1 mill. Um, and this kind of leads me into my my next question. So, I you know,

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I watched the strategic meeting. I had turn it off. I mean, I used to when I was a kid, we got a a big thick book every year from Sears and it was called the wish book. >> Y'all probably remember that. And I'd go through there and circle things and fold pages over. That's what I wanted from Santa Claus. All right. That's what it

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kind of sounded like to me. But um I understand there's there's things that we need. Okay. Um but when we're looking at numbers this large, you're going to have to start from where we were last year before you add anything. And there's going to be some things you have to add. Insurance, health insurance going to go up. Okay? We don't have any

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control over that. All right? So the things that you can't control are going to increase. But before you start adding those increases now, start cutting from last year's budget. start cutting that muscle that you're talking about from last year's budget. Okay? And then you

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look at a list of all these are all the things that we would like to have. And in that list is that 3% COLA increase. Okay? All all of those things that you all removed. That's where the list. So you instead of adding all of that stuff in and now you guys are trying to figure

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out, man, how do we cut things out? Let's let's start from scratch and add things too. So that's what I would suggest maybe maybe thinking about and and this is going to come into play later on when the when the abalorum stops and I know

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that's probably easier said than than done. This is just an idea. All right. Just a a redneck. All right. Um but when the millage when when the when the uh when the Avalorum stops cuz it's going to Florida Florida voters are going to vote this. Okay. We're going to lose

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about 2.3 mil. Miss Miss Kiki said probably might as well go ahead and lean forward and say 2.5 mil. Um so 2.5 mil minus our our current budget that we're in right now. Let's go back from the previous budgetary years. All right. So

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we'll just call it even even 3 million. So if we're under a $24 million budget right now, let's subtract 3 million from that which is 21 million. All right. What fiscal year did we have a $21 million budget? Let's start there. And then we're going to play this exercise. what I just explained to you for for

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this next fiscal year. We're going to have to play that exercise over again. Just a heads up with that. Thanks. >> Thank you. So, good input. Mr. Michelle, come on up. >> Good evening. >> I have the budget from last year. So,

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I'm kind of working off of that. Um, if you're going to be in the whole 6.4 million right now, the way things stand. I would also like y'all to talk about the four million uh 4.3 million for the debt service. So really you're

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almost 11 million in the hole. >> Am am I saying that correctly? >> I'm not sure what um >> so if you take the um the 6.4 that that you started with the general budget being

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>> that included the debt service include the Yes ma'am. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's >> Don't make the hole bigger than you have to. [laughter] >> Don't make the hole bigger than you have to, you know. >> Yeah. Well, um it's hard to follow this without something to look at. So,

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>> yes, ma'am. >> That answered that question. That was really my own >> Michelle. That's why I made the comment, ma'am, about I feel like we're kind of like hats or cats on a hot tin roof because we're we're basically kind of shooting a little blind here. It's like, okay, well, what do you want?

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>> I understand I understand how the budget thing works, but >> this part of it is, you know, you have to um you've got to cut some of the um the general funds or increase taxes. And I'm like, Johnny, I would

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rather you increase my millage rate so that I can have a flushing toilet and someone at my house within two minutes to, you know, put my mother in an ambulance or whatever needs to be done. And um those

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are my priorities. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I don't even care about potholes in the roads. >> So, um I did like Mr. Langford's proposal of let's let's get creative and let's actually look in the rearview mirror a little bit >> at our last couple years budgets and

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look at where those gaps increased >> uh and just do a strategic analysis. >> Um >> so some of that though is skewed with either grant funding or additional like in that 20some million he mentioned you have the Bayou Preserve Park that's 100%

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grant funded. You have the Ford Ohio Avenue uh project. You have the 10th Street project. Um, you have the sidewalk projects. >> Fair. I'm not saying that's a perfect solution, but I think to Mr. Langford's point is that gives us another point of reference, right? Budgetarywise.

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Um, and as we're we're literally going to be trying to decide which finger to cut off to keep the rest of the hand going here. Um, let's strategically look at that and look at where we were to his point, you know, three 4 million annual budget ago. So, just so that you know,

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the budget that I brought to you in on March 10th, I believe that was 24 million and change, right? After all of the cuts that we have done together as a group tonight, we're at 262. It's only a $2 million difference

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between fiscal 26 and the proposed fiscal 27 with all of those things removed. with the cost >> and some of that might have been we got more grants this year than last year. I don't know if that's true. >> There was a lot more grant money last year. >> Well, and some of your core costing factors were more, right? Your health

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insurance. >> We all know what fuel is doing, right? We struggled with what to budget for fuel. >> There's no way in the world in fiscal 27 we're going to spend the same amount of money for fuel. >> Yeah. We're literally trying to nail jello to the wall at this point.

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>> And get it. I would like to add too, you know, we hear a lot of of the wish list items. It's not staff's wish list items. That is what either residents or the commission, your constituents have have brought to us and said, you know, we want to do this park or we we want a

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sidewalk added down this street or we want more leagues or we want more stuff. It's not stuff that staff is benefiting from as far as making their day and and making their nights easier. It is typically more work on staff. Um, so it's not stuff that they're sitting

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around coming up with. It is stuff that that the residents have requested or we've we've got to replace, repair, um, add, um, or stuff that the commission has requested. Well, we are kind of the proverbial if you take this and you boil it down

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metaphorically to a family budget where mom and dad sitting at the table and the checkbook only gets this much in a month and gas has jumped up a time and a half and uh homeowners insurance is up and groceries are up and all that. So, you

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literally have a fixed amount. So, where's your priority? What's going to get cut? What's going to get scaled back? Right. You are absolutely 100% correct. The one difference with being a municipality is you can change the

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revenue number. You can change the millillage. When you're at home at your dining room table coming up with your monthly budget, generally speaking, as an employee, I can't change my re revenue number. You, as an elected body,

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can. >> Yes, sir. come on up. >> So, speaking of revenues, so I know that we're looking strictly at Advorum taxes. I I'm would like to make the assumption that our income from Advalorum next year will increase if you leave the millage

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rate the same. I don't know what it from 25 to 26. Is that number included in there? I think you said you were going on the old revenue numbers. Um we got a preliminary uh taxable value from the property assessor's office. So yes, the

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taxable value has gone up a bit >> about 200 at 4.05 keeping the mill rate the same it goes up about $200,000. >> Okay. And and that little bit 200,000 is it rolled into these numbers already into the deficit already? Okay. That was

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my question. It's already included. >> How much money did we bring in just from millillage last year? >> 7.2. >> Commission. Are y'all okay with these uh three courses of action at this point? A

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a static, a half a mill, and a mill increase for running the numbers. >> Yeah, options are good always. What document do you want from us? >> What? You said you would like a document. What document would you like

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from us? The >> one [clears throat] we started with tonight without the cuts. >> You know, it's got the list of all your revenues and all your expenditures by departments and all that. >> I think that's what we need to do is just all of us scrub it. sit down with

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city manager and or the uh finance director and uh ask questions and look at options. >> All right. We started the evening off at 6.3 something like that. >> Something like that. >> We will produce that document and get

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that to you. Do we have any other regulars that want to speak tonight from the audience? Are y'all good? Appreciate y'all being here with us. I know this is kind of painful sausage making to watch, but it is what it is.

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Any other questions from the commission for Kiki or the city manager or legal beagle? Anybody? Buler Beller. Most y'all are old enough to know that. >> City manager, you got anything, sir? >> No, sir. Appreciate y'all's time tonight.

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>> Mayor, if I can just say one thing. >> Uh there was some discussion about how high you could go and it requires if it's a 110% increase or higher requires four fifths. Basically, four of the five. Anything higher than 110% is got to require a unanimous vote of the

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commission. But you can go up to 10 mills. can increase up to 10 mills. >> 10 mills is the constitutional max. >> Yes. But anything above 110% of what your previous rate is, roll back rate, requires a unanimous vote of the

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commission. >> If you look at the I'm trying to remember when it comes out, probably in August or so, you have that sheet you have to fill out from the state that's got all those numbers in that. You know what I'm talking about?

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Is that normally August or September? >> We do that in September. >> September. So, if you look at like September of last year in the agenda, there's a a sheet in there and it kind of explains what you just said, but it actually has like specific numbers

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associated with it. So, >> it should also be noted that he said the roll back rate. So our roll back rate is probably going to be more like 3.7 mills because it's what it would cost in today's money to fund. I might be saying

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this backwards. Can you explain that? You can explain it better. >> So the roll back rate does get very confusing. What the roll back rate means is the rate the millage the um city would assess to collect the exact same amount of

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dollars. So as your property goes property values go up, your millage rate goes down because the the multiplication. >> Yeah. But it's it's like if if inflation

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didn't exist basically >> if you wanted to collect the exact same amount of dollars. That's what the roll back rate does. >> Right. Exactly. >> Yeah. Right. Yes. Right. >> That's correct. So, city attorney Rob, would I did I understand you right when

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you said 110% of the current meal >> of the of the roll back >> rate of the roll back? >> Roll back rate. >> So, you're not saying like 110% of 4.05 would be 4.455, right? That's not what you're saying.

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>> No, whatever the roll back rate is, and that'll be determined based on the numbers that we get when we get closer to the budget. >> Gotcha. It's 110% of that number. >> The costing factor for an equitable or equal amount of funding. >> Exactly. Yes.

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>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. >> Yeah. Like I said, if you go look at I think it's last September or August when Kiki puts that sheet in there, it's got all the the forms she's got to fill out to the state and it's got numbers and everything and explains all that in there. So

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>> the state considers a tax increase anything higher than the roll back rate even though a lot of people don't consider it because your millage isn't changing. >> All right, commissioners, do y'all have any parting shots before we wrap up?

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If not, thank y'all everybody for your time tonight. Have a good night. Thank you.