of where we are um from Stantech Um --------- after that brief synopsis from Stantech and any additional input from uh city manager regarding the Stantech presentation then we'll allow Commissioner Peebles to uh make his
comments in regards to the tier system Um and then if we have any questions among us as a commission at that time we'll discuss the tier system um or if we have any specific questions towards that then we will uh turn to Commissioner Warick for his presentation
Um and after his presentation and discussion from that then we will hear from the um finance review committee um for their recommendations um per um reviewing the uh the information they received from Stante in regards to the stormwater updates And then after
discussing that uh in hearing back from them then we will also take time to hear from the public Uh city manager Yes So um we did go back and talk to Stantech about a couple of uh
suggestions that were actually from the finance review committee Um we just asked that Stantech be on the line for any additional questions that uh the commission may have we've asked them to be to do a shorter presentation not
really go through a lot of the presentation but really just the crux of it Um you know where we were and where we're trying to go Um one of the things that I think that the commission asked that we did do is just look at look at
different tiers see how it looks in the future Uh Stantech did do that and uh so u they're just going to present some findings uh from that and um go from there
All right Thank you Um at this time we'll hear from Stantech Absolutely Good afternoon Can you hear me yes Yes we can hear you Okay perfect Let me go ahead and share my screen Vicki Uh
and I will go over the presentation that we presented earlier this year and really hit the highlights Uh and give me one second Perfect Uh is my screen coming through clear yes Perfect I will go through this is the
same presentation we gave the commission earlier this year I'm going to go through to a couple slides just to truncate the presentation to the core elements that we discussed last time we were in front of you Uh if we go through um the first really breaking this into two parts Um the analysis that we
conducted for the city this year was first a revenue sufficiency study to understand how sustainably uh funded the operations are for storm water looking at current revenues and playing those forward into the next 5
years This slide right here shows the status quo which would be if we have to do the projects that we have and we have the O andM costs that we currently have in the system a gap would evolve over the next few years and that's shown through the negative reserve balances
here essentially showing that we're spending more than we're bringing in in order to deliver the core projects we need to as well as pay for personnel and operations and maintenance expenses So the status quo is unsustainable and during the presentation earlier this
year we had proposed two different options for the commission's consideration One would be scenario one which was a 70% increase in fiscal year 2026 which would raise storm water fee revenues to roughly $3 million a year
that would maintain now stable reserves throughout the five-year projection period and it would allow the storm water utility to fully fund the capital plan uh that has been adopted and looked at over the next 5 years And so this would be one sustainable plan We know
this is a pretty large increase though um from current revenue levels and comes with and I'll talk about in a second some sust substantial bill impacts and impacts to customers throughout the community that this service is provided to So we had also prepare uh prepared an
alternative scenario scenario two which would involve bringing in some sir tax revenue into the utility in order to provide same additional funding that would allow us to decrease that overall
jump in revenue that was needed So under scenario 2 in fiscal year 26 the increase instead of being 70% would only need to be 50% And that would bring us to a situation again where we're maintaining stable reserves over the long term here We're also able to fund
capital over that time And so those were the two revenue scenarios that we presented And I believe the conversations uh as we had that meeting really uh coalesed around the second option The idea that bringing in some sax revenue um in the meantime would
help us deliver capital but also manage some of the customer impacts when we get to the second part of this presentation which I'll switch over to right now which was the discussion about tiers and structure impacts which really if you think about this in in two discrete thoughts this is how much money do we
need the second question we were trying to answer in that presentation is how do we collect that money what is the structure and the set of fees that we would need to assess on properties to generate this amount of money overall and so to start that discussion
one has to first think about the current fees And so in the current fees there was a couple observations that I pres presented last time I was in front of the commission Um the current fees currently have three tiers in place The tiers right now are a little bit
disproportional So the first tier is really really large was one of my first observations 52% of all parcels fit within that tier on a on a ideal situation that would be a bit smaller and the second tier would be a bit bigger which is uh follows a lot of the
uh other options that I pro we'll provide in the next few slides just as far as an update a tier three tier system a four tier system or a five tier system that is one of the items that we want to fix regardless of how many tiers we have is get the tiers very
proportional around the mean parcel the second item that's a core observation is the billing unit And so the EBU right now is 3,700 ft² I put it up on this chart That is a critical part of how the fee structure works It essentially
identifies um the average or in this case the unit that we use to define a single family home Um we use that on the non-residential side to divide square feet and come up with the number of EBUs that's assigned to every commercial parcel And within this structure we use
this as the key pricing point to price the tiers What I have described in the options going forward would be a reconfiguration as I go to the next slide That would first and foremost move that EBU to the ERU and they would move
it down from its current uh position to 2,800 ft² that is perfectly in alignment with how parcels currently have in the single family customer class They're impervious area So that is the average impervious area for all single family homes currently within the city of Len
Haven And so we want that symmetry where that sits uh right in the middle And you'll also notice in all of these options that we now have really good symmetry where that middle tier is going to hold the majority of parcels You want this to kind of look back to a high school statistics class where you've got
the bell curve right and you've got most of your parcels in that first one deviation from the mean We've got 68% of all parcels And then tier one and tier three um are doing just the outliers that are um different from the average if you will They're going to charge them
a little bit less on the front end if they're a smaller parcel and a little bit more on the back end uh for parcels that are greater than the average by one standard deviation And really this is the core uh changes that I had when I presented this When you think about the
differences between a tier three a tier four or tier five the only differences as we move up on those tiers for a four or five is we're just slicing the tail up a little bit more on the far right So it's just allowing a bit more sensitivity for some of the larger
parcels that are within the city that look a bit different different than the average and it allows the fee structure to pick that up and charge those parcels a little bit more because they um do do contribute a bit more storm water given they're so much different than the average which is why we had presented a
a four tier or a five tier However I do want to make the the core point here as I transition down to just the bill impacts which is really where the rubber meets the road Um just jumping ahead a few slides The big changes here that we're seeing from a bill impact
standpoint are the two items that I mentioned up front They're not necessarily the number of tiers It's much more the idea that we want to reenter the fee structure around the average impervious area and particularly I draw out on the impacts that are in
front of you that will impact uh customers a bit differently than they're charged right now And so looking in that blue column right there under the tier three just for simplicity to draw your attention to what that means is smaller parcels are pretty similar to where they are right now A little bit lower in that
first one However it's that parcel that's sitting right around 2,000 square ft in that range The bill right now is a bit lower for how much impervious area those types of parcels have And when I reenter the structure around that that is where you'll see some of the larger
impacts to correct that to make sure the fee structure is perfectly proportional based on the amount of imperous area And then really as we go above that it's more a discussion about larger parcels that are much larger than the average and they're just getting an assignment
uh with a fee that recognize that recognizes that differential as we move from tier three to tier four to tier five So I wanted to kind of hit the highlights if you will going through the presentation I know we went through a lot more detail when we were there last time of the buildup to this but that is
you know in my mind and how Pete and I ran this analysis the real crux of this the the big changes that result in some of the changes at the end here um that would impact customers going forward However I will say you know with with that in mind these changes are meant to
make this structure you know sustainable and also matching the underlying data very very closely So we want to be data driven which is why we came up effectively with the average and with the parcel breakpoints that are presented whether it's a tier three tier four or tier five we can discuss the the
merits of of how many tiers or exactly where those are but I just wanted to make sure with this quick synopsis that I hit those big parts and what we were really thinking you know as we went through this update this year um to try to present these options in front of the commission So with that I I'll
inject or have any conversations to go back to anything that was covered in more detail when we were there in January Thank you for that uh quick overview and and highlight of what you've uh presented to us previously And one question uh just really for clarity for
for all of us is that what we're looking at now is the one time 50% increase which should sustain us for the next 5 years I mean I know there's variables in regards to the economy and inflation etc But based on what you're projecting in
regards to our projects and our income that this 50% will help sustain us over the next 5 years as opposed to us coming back each year trying to make another vote on do we increase by another 5% 10% like maybe what we did initially when it
was presented to us to make you know a big jump and then vote each year for um incremental increases That this would just be a one-time increase for the next few years That that is correct So the option we're showing here which is currently on your
screen is a 50% jump in revenue this next fiscal year and then based on our projections we've tried to factor in everything we know about right project cost uh assumed inflation as well as that additional coming in
next would be able and time period without any additional increase in revenue So this would be a one-time move up and then we would be sustainable for at least the the last 5 years And um you know of course mentioned that's with all the
information we have right now Right Right Now with this 50% increase it'll cover the capital projects um the maintenance um the the actual employees in that department Will there be any reserves possible from this
increase we we did factor in reserve balances One of the um core items within the storm water utility that we looked at this year was to try to build up reserves That's always been part of the plan but it's always been hard to get there right there's been a lot of demands on the
fund over time So we have tried to project a minimum reserve of 3 months And this would get the utility to that over time and and maintain that over the next 5 years It'll likely you know oscillate around that number right some years you're going to do a bit more capital some years you're going to do a
bit less and it'll jump back But the idea was to target that three months of O andM which allows the city some breathing room right if things happen unexpected or if parts of the system break that aren't expected and you need emergency repairs that's why folks would have those reserves on hand
All right Um well we'll start with Commissioner Peebles and just go through our seats to see if anyone else has any additional questions for Stantech Thank you Mayor Uh so basically I don't know a year and a half ago I was really starting to do what
Stantech did uh which was dig into the data and I noticed what they did which is that the the three tier system was very skewed in terms of the math The math just wasn't mathing as the cool kids say And uh so I I did a bunch of
numbers I did a bunch of math and to me it just made sense to go to spread out the tiers to a five tier system because if the idea of the tier system is to try to get as close to average as possible like that one slide
showed of impervious property it would make more sense to have five tiers to spread it out to be closer to being average with the outliers like the the I like the idea of tier one and and tier five really being the outliers and the middle tiers kind of pulling the weight
and um to me that was I mean literally you could when I was doing the math you could literally just like make it more just shift some of the tier one of those 52% tier one homes you just shift them over to tier two and you
would have gotten the city I think at the math I did if you did it right if you would have made it average among everybody that would have gained the city like an extra million dollars just by shifting the tiers up a certain way So really my I just wanted to dig into
the tiers like Stantech has done and I think they did an excellent job um with the tier system and I like the idea of Certex The one thing the few things I wanted to point out is there are some other ways we could potentially do the
math we could do rather than a tier system at all we could just do strictly um you know a straight 280 like a straight cost against everyone I don't suggest this This is just suggestions to think about I like the tier system I'm
just throwing some other ideas out there You can do a straight fee across everyone and things like that The only thing that the one downfall and I didn't really dig into this and maybe we can talk about it some more is the vacant land I don't know if we want to dig into
that a little bit more Uh and another thing I was thinking about was I don't know if we can maybe Ben can answer this for me but can we use the CRA funds for properties in in the CRA area as an incentive program to do kind of like um
break like I guess you could call it assessment fee breaks if citizens were to I don't know build their own retention pond or something like that I mean I think I'm outside of the CRA so this wouldn't affect me But for example I literally have a retention pond in my
on my property I am g I am holding more water than I am letting out Um that's and so I'm wondering if there's something we could do for people that live within the CRA to do something like that So to answer your question I would have
to look into the CRA plan to see if this would be an allowable project or expense under the CRA plan Um I do want to point out that back then the feasibility study uh when the feasibility study for the
CRA was done um it it outlined that or that one of the blight conditions was the lack of drainage in within the CRA So we have done some improvements over the years Um u you know installed some
additional storm water piping um added some concrete canvas to an existing ditch to improve the the water flow So we have made some improvements there So um it's not that nothing has been done on that Yeah Right Right Yeah So I didn't also I mean just to be clear in
terms of geography these numbers reflect the entire city Mhm And CRA is just the down talking part right i was just trying to think of a way that we could incentivize people to um make it to where they fix their own
problems You know you know if you can incentivize someone to dig their uh a way to retain water on their own property then our the city staff doesn't have to go out there and do it So we don't have to spend man hours to do it and just taking you know a percentage
off of your your yearly storm water assessment fee by using CRA funds We're not pulling from the storm water budget We're pulling from the CRA budget which is really what it's for is to help develop areas So it's just a thought I had If we can't do it we can't But I'd
like to maybe explore that in the future Um and it really wouldn't affect this vote anyways because it's just something we can look at in the future um to help incentivize citizens to help the city as a whole rather than um just strictly
taking money out of the storm water budget But uh that's really all I have I really do I really I just wanted to uh the main point I'm trying to get at is I love the tier system I think the math is a lot better now than it was I like the
sir tax idea but there are other options out there I'm not dying on this hill is what I'm trying to get at Uh but I I just wanted to thank Stantech and the city for for taking time and and really exploring this for me and um and for the rest of us and for the citizens cuz I
think it's a good thing Commissioner Pero how long have we been doing this since we set it up four years And we've gotten to a point where we're we're using the tier system right
okay Um and this um this 50% more revenue would would include a sir tax correct to to help fund another way Yes Yes
And we're looking at the crux of our homes 26 the these parcels would be the rooftops right or the properties 2642 1774 and 440 on the on the 23200 and the
4200 imperous square footage Are these are these accurate is this right so the majority of our people lie within one range They're all getting charged the same right it's it's the
average Um it you know that's that's that's more than if you added up the other the other ones it would be that that that's that's the most I mean if you spread it out any
further you know you're looking at higher the square footage the more they should pay basically the bigger the house all that kind of stuff I mean three or four tiers falls in line perfect I think So so I mean five tiers
is great It's It spreads it way out but you've you know you you're using bookends with the highest and the lowest kind of you know so why not keep it more toward the average like it is that's my point is that it's the current three- tier system that we have if you
wanted it to be more average you'd need to shift more homes from tier one and put them into tier two this this kind of this is a this is a proposed one This isn't what we have now Okay That's what I'm saying because it's it's an increase in revenue and it's using a sir tax right but it but it hits the average a
lot better than anything we've had so far Yeah I mean I'd be I Yeah Doing what the three tier the new proposed tier three system is better than the three tier system we have right now I I mean I can agree to that and that's what we're going to that's what we're looking at
That's kind of what I'm thinking is that that what what what was before me there it's just switched back to um another slide But um I'm I'm okay with that you know and they came and talked to us before and as
things evolved a lot It kind of went stale for a couple years because we had you know we had things going on that we felt like we didn't need to increase anything for our citizens But by doing that we we we're putting the brakes on
this We you know we we we slowed it down to a point where now we need to do something and get it get it back up so we can we can get capital projects going So what I'm looking at like I said three tiers or four tiers
where where it's going is is what I'd be for So it commissioner Wart So I'm I'm glad we're talking about this now Uh getting some ideas out there Um probably most of my comments is on my
presentation but um one thing that Commissioner Peeles touched on about incentives and that I I would actually like to see us spend more money on the concrete canvasing cuz I think and um that'll save us in the in the long run
that's going to save us money in ditch digging and that So it'll decrease expenses so that um we won't have to raise a storm water fee as much in in the future And I I think that would be a good investment So that's kind of where my head's at But that's all I really
have right now Commissioner Vander Well generally the way it is now we're maintaining That's about it You know we're paying the bills um in the tier 1 two and three I like the
proposal of going to four and five I think it's more equitable like um Mr Peoples suggested You know you're spreading it out and giving an opportunity for it to be more of a like I said equitable to the citizens Um my
question is are we are we looking at the 50% increase now yes Well we're not voting today but that's what we're looking at is a 50% increase because
it's either keeping it as is which is no increase which then puts us into the negative projection or having some type of increase Um and as Commissioner Perno mentioned initially uh mentioned a few moments ago when we initially um installed this procedure four years ago
we were supposed to have incremental increases each year Um that was what we had thought we would do However with inflation and other financial challenges to our um community we opted not to add another bill you know not to increase that bill over the you know maybe twice
we maybe didn't increase it um which now brings us back to here So we're sort of trying to make up for what we didn't do Um but also hoping that with this one-time increase that we won't have to come back for the next few years to reconsider it again because the previous
plan was reconsidering it each year in regards to increases U so these are real numbers on on this slide Yes for the 50% increase which includes the 300,000 sir tax each
year Thank you Uh thank you for your input Uh now we're going to switch over to Commissioner Ward All right So um I know this is a tough issue This is uh I've been talking to a lot of residents and storm water is one of the
top three issues that um they've talked to me and they have definitely have a lot of concerns Um especially when you talk to the seniors that that are on a fixed income they're they're worried about this So um I just have some ideas I don't know if any of them come to
fruition but hopefully it'll um spur some other good ideas Um if you can go to the next slide please So this is kind of what I did is I looked at the the Stantech presentation on the three tier reconfigured and uh
when you reconfigure it um you can see if they increase it the 50% and the 70% If you're under 1,600 your bill actually goes down and if uh if you're between 16 and 2900 it'll either go up $98 or $124
depending if we do a 50 or 70% increase Oh thank you And then this is uh the tier two Um doesn't seem too bad for this one It only goes up by $20 and $45 if uh for the 70% more revenue And then tier three
kind of the same deal where if you fall in that one criteria your bill will actually go down and then over 4,300 it goes up uh quite a bit more So I just kind of wanted to put that out there So that you know especially let me go back
a little bit Especially like this one This is the one that concerns me is a 1,600 to 2,900 Chances are that person doesn't have a whole lot of revenue Um they might be you know low income and uh last thing I want to do is break the
bank for them So that's kind of why I wanted to to show that to everyone something to think about right and then I know we talked about vacant lots Well I actually did look into that and um I know this has been brought up before and um the way we
currently have it it doesn't address the vacant lot So if you have a vacant lot that's 21 acres you're paying the same amount as someone in a tier one Uh someone that's got a quarter of an acre you're paying more than someone that's in tier one And if you got a half acre you're you're paying more than tier 2
even though you may not have any impervious area So um uh I think we need to address that So as I was doing my research I looked around at some other cities and um uh Haleya is one of the cities I
looked at There's a couple others that are similar to this I think the other two I saw was St Petersburg and Jacksonville And what they do is they their methodology is uh pretty much the same as ours Uh the rate's not the same of course but they use the uh the RU and
um of course ours is $169 per one ERU but on theirs um they um for each dwelling they actually put it on the utility bill As with ours we put it on the um as a nonadalorum fee which goes
with your goes up to the county and gets pretty much paid with your property taxes So I was a able to actually talk to an individual named Carl about this and I got a lot of great information So I you know I asked him I said 'Well how do you put it on the monthly bill um and
he goes "Well our billum department they do it They they just put it on the bill." Um and I asked him some more questions on that which I'll address a little bit later in the later slides but they were able to do that That's for
residential Okay And so for non-residential they pretty much use the same methodology Um they also put it on the utility bill Uh so it's a monthly fee And so they charge x amount um uh depending on how many square foot of impervious area the same thing we do So
ours is currently $169 for every 3900 square ft Um and then I asked when I talked to Carl at Hya he uh I asked him about vacant lots I said "How do you do you guys charge vacant lots?" He goes "Actually we have little to no vacant lots so it's not an issue there So it's
pretty dense area but we currently charge $39 for every $3,900 square foot of gross parcel area." So not impervious area gross parcel area So I looked at multiple different
ways of how we could do um possibly some other methodologies and different ways And this is one thing I looked at um what if we charge a flat fee for all utility lines and then you'll see the graph there You'll see there's a substantial more amount of residential
utility uh units than they are commercial And this is why it's important to bring in many businesses in in uh Linhaven because that helps alleviate um rates and or help to keep rates and fees down to a reasonable level So we currently have 10,026 water
utility units and out of those 9,594 of them are residential So those are going to have the biggest impact on your um storm water assessment fee So I looked what if you just charge everybody the same amount um and I set it at $2
million uh you would charge about $200 a year which would be about$1662 a month Even if you were to bring it up um um even if you were to increase the commercial counts um you could bring it down but it wouldn't make a substantial
difference since there's only 432 of those utility units Um so this one didn't make sense to me cuz if you look at like the one that pays the most for storm water I mean it's it's over $40,000 and then you're going to tell them they're going to pay now you're
going to pay about $3 $400 a year it just it didn't make any sense to me So the only reason I'm showing you this is so you can kind of see what how many utility units we have of commercial versus um residential and
um and just to show you I've tried to look at different methodologies So this was a a possible uh solution Um I looked at is what if we charge $210 per ERU across the board And
if we did um it would increase tier 1 by $22 a year so it's less than $2 a month Uh tier 2 would increase by $41 a year so less than $4 a month And tier three would increase by $62
Um and that's if we kept the tier the three tier system the chain the same not the reconfigured that was talked about earlier So it's um so it's a little more than $5 a month Um and of course we can adjust that but if we did that we'll bring in and I say approximately $2
million of storm water revenue cuz um there's a few things in there I'm not sure how it might change the numbers but I know there's a lot of information on this slide but um the other thing I I did um you notice too if you look at
vacant I took it from $39 per 3900 ft² to $12 So um it's a substantial decrease for the vacant lots So these are some of the questions and things I kind of I think we could think about is can we do a monthly bill
every month is it feasible um when I talked to Carl Hela I asked him "What if you have a rental property and let's say it's vacant for two three months or someone puts a house on the market and it's vacant for 2 three months does that mean that's lost revenue for those 2 3
months?" And he said "No what they do is they you know every lot has a property owner and then they send that bill to the property owner." I don't know how they do it but they they they send it to the property owner and uh you know that could be a challenge for the billing
department um to try to track all that down Um the other question I have is how much do we pay the county for these administrative actions as opposed to if we did that um and earlier when I said it brought in about $2 million and that
doesn't even include the sir tax um um there's a difference between a master meter and um every apartment having um their own meter So for example let's say you have an apartment complex that has 100 units If you have a master
meter that u supplies to all those units then what happens is they fall under the non-residential though they'll pay the $169 for every 3,900 square ft Um but then there's some apartment complexes where every single unit has their own
water meter So then instead of the apartment complex playing the not paying the non-residential rate um each apartment will pay the residential rate And so um I asked Carl about that and he said that's kind of how they do that and I imagine that's how we would do that
also Um even if we did uh do this uh I looked at past year developments and the reason I brought this up is uh this is uh you know more revenue that could be bringing in for storm water as we get more developments into uh Linhaven So
this past year from March to March March 2024 to March 2025 we had 52 single family dwellings 87 manufacturer homes and 27 commercial buildings So that's going to be an increased revenue But um
I think the other thing we need to look at is the sir tax Um I'm not sure how much we currently have but could we put more sir tax money in storm water would it be worth it or are we want to use it for something else that might be a conversation that that we need to have
But those are my thoughts and ideas and I figure that would be a good time to bring it up for discussion See what you thought All right Thank you for uh the research and information that you provided And you mentioned that this
would this would generate $2 million in revenue approximately And I know that's less than the 2.6 to3 million that we're originally looking at Got it But that doesn't include the certax So if you include the search tax it could be about 2.3 million If if my
numbers are right I'm not saying they're all right cuz there's some different scenarios like I talked about with the master meter and and ones that have it for every unit And I think uh the number you mentioned the chart So now are you I guess what is
are you proposing just a flat fee of the 210 for everyone or or do you have I guess what are you proposing with the on the bill do you have two or three different scenarios that you're proposing or just No this is just one scenario Um so yeah it's 210 per eru So
two uh tier 2 is 1.0 I think tier 1's.54 and then tier 3 is 1.5 And then you look at non-residential instead of them paying 169 per 3900 foot they would pay 210 per 39 square foot
Okay So it' be across the board Right Those are my questions uh starting up commission of peoples Uh one thing I I guess I would ask on if it was utility bill um how would that be handled with
like places like Walmart that are much larger that's what I don't I don't uh I haven't grasped how that would be handled I I don't know I know when I talked to Carl that's what he said aa um
Florida He said they just put it on their utility bill and they send it to them and they pay a monthly just like the residential Okay So we just have to I guess the hard part would be figuring out cuz if it's easy with citizens cuz it's a flat rate but like we wouldn't charge Walmart the same as like Wild
Route or something like that You know what I mean well theirs would be based on the every 3900 square foot of area It wouldn't be um the different tiers like the residential Okay I sense Okay Yes Yeah I got you So the commercial goes
back to the 3900 right all the non-residential or commercial whatever you want to call it Yes sir Got it So then that's what we would do with the apartments for those that have the master meter would be the 3900 and those that don't have the master meter it
would just be the individual units Yeah they so the individual units would pay the residential rate If you have a master meter then that apartment complex would pay 3900 square ft of imperous area for every 3900 foot of pvious area
Okay Commissioner Pero Look if you if you guys want to put it on the bill and that's what and and that seems to be consensus I don't I don't I don't you know I don't know where we're going with that because we've we've come
this far with what we've done But if that's an option and people want it you know the PE I do feel like the people with the vacant land are getting the bad end of the stick here and and and uh and whatever we can do to
alleviate that but we cast a wider net right now with the property tax So by by establishing that we've we've evolved on it Yeah We went flat for two years and that's what we're doing We're
making up for that right now Uh in in in a lot of ways we we we should have possibly just let it run its course and we'd have been in better shape today But you know that's that's an option and and
uh you know if if if it's what we all agree on you know I I'll move ahead with it But we're we're going to have to hear from people after this And that's why I'm bringing it up is I thought if I brought it up now cuz I've had some residents come up come to me and say you
know um what if we did it monthly you know cuz I I know I said this before me doesn't matter to me It doesn't change anything for me if I pay at the end of the year or if I pay by monthly It's it's it's a wash for me But I think there's especially low lower income uh
residents I think they look at things more by month and probably even by the week you know and so it's it's a bigger impact to them So I was hoping by bringing this up now that they'll provide us some feedback That's what we need to that's what we need to hear because what we're doing is we're going
to put it on we're going to put everything on the backs of the people that pay a bill right and there's pe there's more people involved when we do it with property tax right now That's that's just the conundrum that when we propose this that you know um it what's
what's the amount of time we're going to hear back from people or or or what So and that's why I'm glad we're talking about it now I'm glad we're talking about it too because we're we're we're way before the vote on this Right And not only that we need to look at you know is it financially feasible for the
city to do it or do we even have the means to do it do we have this is the software capable of doing it and things like that There's going to be a lot of things the city's going to need to look at I think the city's already upgraded all that They're ready for bigger and better things for building I think So
yeah I we have but every city of course has a financial software that's different from ours And so Halia may have they may not have munis most people don't Um so they may be using utilizing some other type of financial software to
divide that um cost every month Uh so so that's is it's in Dade County It's it's in the heart of Dade County It's in north very densely populated area of our state
Northwest of Miami Yeah Yeah Yeah Right Commissioner Vandergri All right So when you hear people complain they're not complaining about the tier system They're complaining about the payment method Is that correct
i wouldn't say complaining They're concerned I meant concerned Poor choice of words I mean I don't want to say a lot of people but you know that's why I want to bring it up now because I'm hoping they hear because I' I've had some people reach out to me ever since I brought it up and you know maybe a lot
of them rather have it monthly or maybe it doesn't matter to them I I don't know what the answer is Like me I it doesn't matter to me No I've heard that also but I truly wanted to know if it's the tier system or if it's the payment system Um
I think it's more of how much they have to pay Okay So with this the system we have now there are two issues well three issues We want it to be
equitable Uh the vacant land or that's not being fair and the monthly cost But other than that if we can work those out are you in favor of still using the
PE tier system i don't know how everyone else feels I'm I'm good with it Um Okay And and the other thing is I I don't I know the financial review board got together I haven't been able I don't know what they talked about but I'd like to get their recommendation too That's that's the
thing The um if they're going to make a presentation in um Yeah Well with people that have vacant land I'm sorry I'm sorry People that have vacant land you know they should still have to pay something because the water that's even though it's pvious the water rolls off
there and has to go somewhere So so we should include them at some degree Well whe whether it's whether it's fair um for you know there should some be some accountability for that I can't put a dollar amount on it but everybody
should pay pay in the the the way it goes Storm water's everywhere It's not just and and I've talked to people who said I I'm happy to pay cuz even though it doesn't affect me I know we're getting we're getting better from this and we're doing we're doing things to to
to help I mean storm water's come a long way in a short amount of time and this fell over here You guys have done a great job with what you what you've done to have impact on on on our city you know with with what you've done so far
So we need to keep we need to keep their arsenal you know ready to go So cuz we are we we are always going to be Linhaven We're going to be the low the lowest of the low parts of the county So you found people that like to pay I' I
talked to a guy who lives over here off of the and it was it was a while back and he and he had the he had the mentality that you know I'm not I don't flood you know where I'm built I don't flood but I know that there's areas of the town that do flood and when I pay my
share you know u you know I he feels like that it's fair it's equitable you know what I mean and I'm just giving you a hard time I'm just I'm just thinking that you know yeah we got he was a proud Rotarian when the fell I was talking to I won't say his name but he doesn't mind
paying to help out to help make Linhaven better You know what I mean nice So I think we got we we got that in respect We just got to get our arms around what's the best scenario to to to to cast the net and be fair to everybody Awesome At this time we'll hear from uh
finance review committee representative Miss uh Debbie Ashbrook They had a very good discussion I was able to to listen in on it um during their meeting very thorough discussion on the storm water some good ideas as well So we'll like to hear from them So thank you for giving
me the opportunity to speak Um there are really three main issues that we uh looked at this scenario dissected it apart Um the first thing is we didn't like the 70% we wanted we felt the 50% would be better using the 300,000 from
the sertex money but we also felt that there should be some cost of living or some type of increases throughout to to 2030 that that there's very little money left for emergency res You know you mentioned just three months for reserve we just felt that wasn't enough and that
um the 50% and then maybe a small increment each year after that Um and then we had a real problem with the tears So like you Mr work They sat there and dissected and did all the math and we just felt that the the tears I mean
specifically I'm going to go to the page where it was for 50% more revenue and the 2,000 ft and the 32,000 ft houses there they were significantly increased Um the 2,000t house would almost double
and then you look at the higher end um and theirs went down significantly We just felt the tiers in the scenario of 50% or more were um didn't make sense to us and it wasn't fair But when we went back to the three tiers that the city
had before we we didn't have a lot of heartburn with that We just thought it should be spread out a little bit more So this fancy tier system was just we didn't like it And then the third issue was whether or not to put it on a water bill And we thought that would be a
nightmare to put it on a water bill thinking of rentals and then who's responsible for it um is it going to be the property owner is it the person who's the tenant it just didn't make sense for us plus the mechanics behind it That didn't make sense So those were
our three recommendations And Miss Gainor did I miss anything thank you That was it Yeah Um do you have any questions for Miss Ashbrook any clarity on what she just mentioned so you didn't like the five tier not the
way it was structured this way because if you really look at it carefully that 2,00 3,000 foot home or um impervious was significantly affected and you go down and you look at the 7200 square ft
and uh in the 5,500 and you look at the fifth tier the yellow it went down their theirs went down significantly So that just didn't make sense to us That middle of the road person is going to pay more and the people with lots more land are paying less Got it So you all would
prefer that the in regards to that tier system that those at the more impervious surface would pay that their ratio would be more um than those that are sort of in the middle carrying the weight um is what you all are saying Exactly Okay Yes
They were really concerned about that second tier Mhm And taking some of that um those increases and spreading them over Yeah to the other four three or four tiers That that one that was that
second tier is what bothered the finance um committee um a lot And so they needed they were saying that that particular tier needed to uh some of the uh the the increase needed to go to the third
fourth or fifth tier and um take some of those problems off the back of the second tier So that was the big conversation um that the finance review committee had And then one more thing about the land We we strongly thought
the land should fall into this uh they shouldn't be exempt in any way I missed that The land that the vacant lands should be this should affect them right they shouldn't be exempt Did they have was there any conversation
about them paying the same as they already do or decreasing it or anything like that um I think it was right along in line Okay We didn't have extensive conversation about that We just assumed it would be right in line with the tears with how much impervious land they had
Okay Thank you All right Any additional questions for Miss Ashook yeah just just to reiterate you guys like the three tier system but just spread out more We thought maybe there could be a fourth tier not necessarily the five Okay Um so yeah and
we actually started doing with Mr Or did doing math and dissecting wait a minute that's really not our job or we would have come with a PowerPoint Yes Awesome Thank you so much for that input and feedback Thank you for the work that you all are doing Make our
jobs harder Thank you very much In a good way All right So we've heard from financial review committee We've heard from one another At this time we're going to open the floor to hear from the public Um we're going to Let's just go rowby row So we'll start with row number one and
we'll just go rowby row All right Mr for sure Yes it's a lot to cover but I am glad y'all are taking this on early in the process so there's time for everybody to think about it and and for to really address this Um one question I do have is when you talk about square foot of of
impervious surface you're not considering the size of the property itself If you've got six Linhaven lots and a thousand square foot of impervious surface that's a lot different to me than if you've got one 50 foot wide Linhaven lot and have the same square foot of impervious surface Just
something to think about as you go through this process Um and I don't know how how difficult it would be to use percent of imperous surface of your overall parcel size Um one thing on the paying on your water bill or on your utility bill it's that's going to shift
the payment to the renters that rent the people that lease They've already ne negotiated their lease with their landlords They won't get a break That's just going to be an immediate cost to the tenants in this case That's one issue I have with the water bills Second is I don't know how you're going to
collect against the vacant properties if you're charging water bills because I have a vacant piece of property that I own next to my house that's not included in my parcel I pay right now and I'm one of those people I don't mind paying I'll never flood at my house but I get to drive on roads that don't have water
standing on them You know we pay for school We don't have kids anymore I I think that's fair Um let's see using the infrastructure tax I'm good with using $340,000 a year out of that fund for a while but we got to remember that's not a free pot of money that we just need to
use everywhere It's it's we need to start worrying about other infrastructure things we need to um one complaint that I hear when I'm talking to people is not so much of what how much then the tax is It's more to do with they really expected capital
projects to be being done with this money and we're not And that's something that I think moving forward we need to make sure we do that whatever we do when if if we pass this 50% increase we need to make sure we fund some capital projects with it or we're going to have people up here hammering on us for not
using their money wisely Um currently vacant property in Lin Haven covers about 2.4% 4% of our advorum taxes come from vacant property Now that's not a par per parcel but that's just an overall to give you an idea of
what we see for vacant property in the county Haleia County or Halia City is the sixth largest city in the state So I appreciate your efforts on that but it may not be apples to apples or oranges to oranges when you're looking at that It is good information for certain
Um what else have I got here i I kind of favor the five tier system but that's something that that can be worked out for certain I think that's pretty much all I had So thank you Thanks for your insight Um anyone else from row
one all right Ro Yes sir Um we've been at this for 20 years and I've been here and it's not working And Jamie Commissioner Jamie knew about that when Syntax put up a big sign and
you can't afford to have our systems working If I look in the uh tax the money that we pay out each month I see approximately close to $50,000 that's given to Syntax Is that
put in with the bills that we're going to have to pay citizens have to pay and if you want the exact number uh 40,000 $46,000 to
Syntax monthly payments Um I I live in the CRA area The CRA area when it doubled the density on the property in certain areas has caused all kinds of heck with us Our houses were
built in 1922 1911 1930 1940 The new rules and regulations with CRA you have to bring them up almost 9 ft New development one of the new houses that you just saw there on the CRA thing He
dumps tremendous amount of water on my property My property is two lots as one house the other's vacant My property and a lot of others are on stilts purposely for our storm water problem And because
we are 6 in above the water table consistently when it rains the water table is above New houses being built or renovation right now are having septic not septic but some pumps put in there that take
the water that comes under their buildings or on their property storm water pump it into the sewage system Sewage system is suffering Sewage lines are supposed to be separate from the storm water They're
not It's taxing our sewer system So we have eventual problems I can I have no problem paying putting tax on tax on tax You know who's bailing you
out you are citizens here You live here You're part of it You're paying and bailing out the difficulties that are brought to us by staff Right Thank you Go into Mr Joe Brown's row Anybody
on your row all right Mr Scra's row Um first thing for you guys to think about is if Governor Dantis gets his way and property tax goes away how are you going to collect your revenue all right Uh what is an equivalent residential
unit or ERU an er unit is is a unit of measure which serves an index to compare the runoff generated by different size properties with different amounts of imperous surface You guys have a role of all properties that has an assigned eru
for every property I took that role and I applied a little bit of math here Do math every day at work It's not fun Uh 10,432 total erus I took the $3 million budget that Chris would like to get I
divided that out It's 287 per ERU I applied that ERU to one tier the ERU tier No more three tier four tier five tier One tier It's 287 per ERU What I came up with is about Oh the next thing
I did was to be cognizant of vacant properties I set every vacant property at $100 flat I don't like that I think they should pay eru just like everybody else That's equality You pay based on the impervious surface But if vacant
truly means vacant fine I set them at $100 per vacant property What I came up with is $2.7 million to be collected That is $300,000 short So if you want to borrow from another fund which I don't like Mr Basher I do not
recommend that But if you want to borrow from another fund borrow from that fund What is this what does this actually mean though what it means is the highest properties with the most ERUS are going to pay the most The number one eru property with the most ERUS is Walmart
Currently pays about $42,000 Without a doubt they have the most impervious surface Under this system they would be paying $71,000 a year Is that fair they have the most imperous surface So the top five prop or top four
properties in Lin Haven with impervious surface have 100 or more erus and it only gets down to about the top 25 before you get below 20 erus How does this affect residents tier
three would be going from 254 to 432 That seems like a steep jump but if you're in what currently is called the tier three you have 1.5 ERU That's the way the math is Tier two or current tier 2 169 currently that would be going to
287 Why because they have one eru Tier one This is the tier I follow in And like others I don't flood I'm not even in a flood zone But I have no problem paying I would go from 91 in tier 1 to
154 154 divided by 12 Do that math That's not that much You divide Dave Ramsey talks about being financially responsible Personal finance is a responsibility here in Linhaven Just do the math That's not that hard 287 per
eru Thank you Uh Mr Langford Hey good afternoon Um so I've had several conversations with Commissioner Warick about this and I've emailed you all individually um videos of of what happens at my property I'm not seeing any change but I I also don't have any
issues paying My problem is is that I think that I think that by separating the the residential and the non-residential and putting the residential back on the water bill makes uh makes complete sense And here's why
I've never been a fan of the impervious surface idea in the residential stance And here's and I'll kind of go into that I could fit about 27 diesel trucks in my backyard Long as they've all got tags on them they run They got insurance or
whatever I can put them back there A thing the city can do about it All right That's impervious services I'll give you another example I had a it was about a 6 foot by 8 foot concrete extension added on in front of my front door I just wanted to be able to sit on the front
porch and watch the cars go by I had to go down to the Bay County and have everything updated Now mind you this was about 6 foot by 8 foot right i could go down right now and buy a vehicle and park it at my house in the grassy area
that same size still impervious Do you think I have to go down to the Bay County and report that I have a new vehicle parked in my point is is that you're going to run yourselves ragged if you're trying to run down how many square feet of
imperous surfaces are on on every single res it honestly the residential need to be a flat rate You can't you can't solve for a negative number right it's just impossible the commercial side So again taking that hybrid approach like like
what's been brought up the taking a hybrid approach where the non-residential is isn't a tiered system it makes sense Um I just think that if you're trying to do the right thing you know the residential piece putting it back on the water bill makes sense I know there's there may be some new
people here that don't remember but it was on the water bill before This is not a foreign idea It's not like this is some crazy thing that oh my gosh we don't know if the system's going to be able to handle it How is this going to work we did it for years It was just the amount that was on the water bill wasn't
the accurate amount based on what we need for the fund So by taking a hybrid approach residential back on the water bill non-residential have it have it back you know in in that tiered structure But you know there's been a couple of comments that were made You
can't tell me that there's more parcels of land than we have water meters we water meters in Linhaven It don't make sense to me I'm not a smart guy but I got horse sense Um so just something to think about Appreciate it
Thank you Um anyone else from this side uh for any comments all right Coming to this side we'll skip the first couple of rows Anything else from you Miss Ashbrook anything from uh anyone else in regards to storm
water all right if there's nothing else Um so as a commission how do we want to move forward in order to give staff some direction so one of the options option I guess the first option is to decide do we want to continue with our tier system
or a tier system versus the water bill So that's the first thing for us to to make a to have a a brief discussion on is do we want to continue with the A tier system versus the water bill putting it back on the water bill
Well while the water bill system can make sense based on we did have recommendations from the financial review committee not to do it I want to put trust in our committees My one other concern and I'm glad Mr Visier brought it up
was if we do that we are going to have issues with apartments and I'll give an example of why we would So if you go back to when Hurricane Michael hit Panama City dealt with a similar issue in a way So what happened
was when the hurricane hit Panama City apartments they used that as an excuse to evacuate the apartments make them better charge more and then now everyone could come back into those apartments and now they're
required to pay more What that taught us is that apartments don't lower their prices right so based on a tragic incident or a positive incident they don't lower their prices So what's going to happen is as it stands now the apartments are already charging their
residents for the storm water They're not paying for it We're charging the apartments but they're charging their their people to do it Only only if they have a master meter Yes Thank you Thank you Only if they have a master Thank you for that correction So for the ones with
the master meters if if we start charging that then they're just going to add that if we take it Well I guess if it's only the master meter then we
should be fine I dis disregard what I said Yeah So that covers that I guess based on that concept that's what every business does though I mean that's what Walmart does That's what Publix does That's what Windixie does It
it always goes down to the the consumer Um so I I do understand that but that's that's business Um I guess Stephanie could you come and uh share with us about the we have a a few more moments because we have another meeting after
this Um in regards to the master meter and individual meter for the chargers Absolutely So uh the master meter we have about uh we have about 10 of them and it services about a thousand units essentially Um how the property owner
passes it on to their um customer their resident that's up to them Um however when we charge for the water bill we multiply it by the factor of apartments So regardless if it's 10 apartments with 10 meters or one apartment with 10 units
inside of it it's the same cost Um a few things to point out though is that um we don't currently record the impervious space on the utility billing side So while there's a will and a way to do something we would need to know far in advance um because it would completely
restructure the way that we bill Um it would be a big undertaking that we would just need time to prepare for Um we don't record property owners on the utility bill either So um in the event of somebody moving in and out we currently do not know who to build for
that So we would have um quite a bit of work to do to kind of restructure the way it reverting to owner Um and then another thing to take into account is if they don't pay it that would be turning off their water Um which would be kind of a hard situation to do but it's
something that we do monthly um just keep in mind that if they do go delinquent on that monthly payment that that would um put them in jeopardy of losing um access to their water services for the month Um and then of course just the the biggest one is passing the cost
Um it would take the cost off of the property owner and be putting it onto the tenant Um we typically do several hundred turnons and offs a month Most of those we record um rental agreements So most of those ins and outs are rentals
All right Thank you So from listening to us hearing from the the finance review committee um the comments from the citizens seem divided between the tier system and the utility system
Um is there any are any of us wanting to move forward with putting it back on the bill i I think I think we need to have the city look at to see if it's even feasible and the cost and if it's financially
um effective to do it that way cuz I don't know the answer to those questions and the city may or may not know I mean I mean we just talked about this tonight you know and there's probably things they got to look at you know maybe they need to call Ha and see how they do
their things to kind of get an idea I I don't know I just don't I think there's a lot of questions with that I I don't know the answer to u at the finance review committee our finance director did say it would be a finance nightmare
um because of the fact that again HIA may have a whole totally different system in terms of um uh their system as a as opposed to ours And one of the things that we do know is that when it
does go through um the property to through the tax office it is going straight to us So we know exactly how much has come come in I guess it was on the water bill before it was
$3.85 Um and here we would surely have to set up probably I don't know another system or some sort And that's that was one of the things that she did talk about uh is making sure it was very accurate and that none of the money got coded somewhere else Someone doesn't pay
their bill then you don't get that money for that month either So um it would it would be a huge undertaking Any other questions for the city manager do we have any idea how much we pay the county to do it so um that's the tax
collector that we pay and he takes a small percentage and I think that percentage is either I think it's 7% or 3% somewhere along there It's not very much at all And just one other thing yeah it's the uh the Chuck Purdue is the
one that actually sends us um the the revenue that's coming in One other thing to remember too is that the the entire goal of us bringing this to you is to try to put our capital projects out front so that we're just not maintaining
anything we are absolutely moving forward and building our revenue and our reserves for the future not just now but in for the future So it's a it's a very small percentage fee that uh he charges
for that And normally they and I don't know if Kyle's still on the phone Normally they have that baked in but I will have to check with that and see Okay It's 2% The statute limits them to actual cost or 2% Two Okay to
Commissioner Vandergrift Um what's the timeline when does when's what's the bottom date when a decision has to be made so right now by us not making a decision is holding up the budget process because they're having to get ready for budget for the upcoming
fiscal year So ideally before the end of April we need to make a decision um which will put them ahead of schedule so that they can um start making that Obviously it's not on the agenda tonight We can bring it to the agenda next
meeting and make a decision then um on uh and it really making the decision depends on what we're asking them to do For example if we want Stantech to go back and tweak something in the tiers then we would have to give that direction So tonight they're just
looking for direction for us to say this is how we move forward Well I see two issues One is the one brought up by the finance committee about uh the tiers that with the t fifth
tier and um they said they didn't mind the four but they didn't like the five U and the next issue is what Mr War said we need to see the numbers on the suggestion that he's made based on what
the U city sees So I guess for clarification what numbers are we looking for exactly uh well we want to compare but if we don't have the numbers to compare what it would look like with the
four and then what versus what it would look like with Mr Warick's plan Okay All right So if we could look at No no no I'm I'm So they'll know what numbers to bring us back because I didn't know if you were talking about numbers in regards to cost to do it or the actual revenue that's being
generated That's what I was asking Well it is an issue about the revenue Got it So uh if everybody's okay then let's ask Stantech to present us with a four
tier tweaking um the the tiers that or tweaking the square footage that the finance review committee mentioned Less disparity Let's just say less disparity between the between the things What between those four tiers Yeah Like we don't we don't like the early people
paying more the end people paying less That's basically what was said So since we're Sorry Go ahead What do you think Sam uh since we're having Stantech look at it can we have them also look at tweaking the vacant
property prices uh you know I don't know exactly what it would change but like Commissioner Ward kind of showed a difference between 39 per square was it $39 per down to like $12 If we can see a since they're already doing the math
anyways if we can go ahead and see the difference there because if it's like not if it's just like a small change in what we're paying per month on the properties that are occupied it might be worth looking at So they're already doing the math anyways We might as well see if they can tweak a little bit with
the vacant land cuz that's probably the number one question I've got outside of the tier system right so if we can if Stantech could follow up with us for that and then if the city could draw the numbers from putting it back on the utility bill now in this putting it back
on the utility bill and what do we what will we do with the non-commercial oh as far as them paying in the storm water right is that going is that putting them on the tier system no no that would be based on 3,900 square per every 3,900 ft of impervious
area Got it So they would get a So the methodology is the same So they would get a monthly bill also right okay So if you could if the city could calculate that for us um based on providing a monthly bill for the commercial and non-commercial and if we could have all
that for next meeting but possibly Stante could look at the ERU too because if the ERU is is higher or set it might take away the disparity Yeah All right Awesome Thank you all today Part: 2
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e to order at 5:33 p.m. we'll have our invocation followed by the Pledge of Allegiance um heavenly father thank you for this time for us to come together
may we uh be endowed by your presence tonight feel our mind with your thoughts fill our mouth with your words fill our hearts with your spirit that we may make decisions that are pleasing onto you and for the betterment of our citizens in Christ's name we pray
Amen to the flag of the United States of America to the rep for IT stand one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all for
all right for those who have signed up for public commentary for agenda item [Music] number number 13 I'm we're going to move you from speaking on public commentary to actually you'll be speaking on agenda
item 13 okay so that'll be your time to speak is on agenda item number 13 for those coming from the uh for that particular agenda item um is there anyone here for public commentary in
general um besides that all right Mr [Music] Walker okay all right Miss Moore I'm here to comment on what happened at the last Commission meeting um and the behavior that I saw and the
comments that were directed at uh commissioner work mayor mayor I guess you're not going to look at me you were really out of line I think you know that um that really shouldn't have happened at this meeting
um and I really think you owe an apology to the citizens and I think you owe an apology to the commission um the statement that you put out was not an apology I don't think you're going to give it but it it really is owed this business this commission meeting is for for business and it's not
for 10 or 15 minutes of a a conversation that could have been private that's all I had to say about that thank you all right thank you Mr Corey [Music] Langford good afternoon I just had a
couple of questions about the um the lot line restriction and the quote 1911 plat um so I think it was back in 2022 Mr Basher would know he was uh involved with it as well but the the lot
lines changed from 50 ft to 75 ft and in order to build on a lot in the 1911 plat and since then like I keep driving around and I keep seeing houses that are being built on 50 foot Lots they're just
they're getting stacked in there and this was this all came up as to why we didn't want you know houses stacked in the 1911 plat like cordwood essentially um and I can provide specific addresses so I'm just curious as to you know who's approving this stuff is it the board
adjustments um is this stuff coming to the Commissioners to approve these deviations from the ordinances um how is this stuff being done um I mean it it personally affected me I mean I was a I was a proponent of increasing the lot
size from 50 to 75 ft just because I didn't feel like that it was appropriate for us to just be stacking houses in there at the same time I was purchasing two 50ft lots so I paid a price for two buildable Lots while advocating that
those that would essentially be one buildable lot so but this I thought it was the right thing to do um and now I continue to see these houses getting built in the 1911 plat essentially on 50 foot Lots so I'm just curious as to how that's how that's being coordinated how
it's being approved and done thank you all right thank you William Platt thank you mayor William Platt 501 West 9th Street this is a reply to mayor's uh 25th February comments uh at the
commission meeting in defense of spending City funds uh for black history posters at minute 19 into this meeting uh he cites the 1986 99th Congress in support I will cite the 29
June 2023 Supreme Court ruling that affirmative action is illegal in the United States mayor does not address my position that the city of Len Haven has a policy of non-discrimination yet we have black history with tens of thousands of lenh Haven dollars spent to divide our citizens nor did the mayor
and Miss Gainer address the question of who paid for their posters that were randomly assigned strategic positions at the entrance of Sheffield Park mayor mentions Tuskegee Airman he does not mention the fact Tuskegee was funded after reconstruction after White
Southern males regained their voting rights immediately after in fact in the black belt of Alabama by an entirely white former Confederate legislature I'll not fault the mayor for not knowing black history as well as I for my family is a black history Pioneer Family as Miss Gainer will attest my
great-grandfather paid Pasco Gainer way through State Mortuary College until a decade ago at our family reunion we had ample black Gainer visitation I don't know what happened they stopped attending 10 years
ago this is the history we should teach our children not to display pictures of Michael Jackson or Alex Haley Alex Haley who by the way stole the book roots and faked it as his own the mayor's March 2025 newsletter States we are greater
comma together this message conflicts with black history theme this message also conflicts with the mayor proclaiming March as women's history month but I do not see any women history posters displayed in L Haven property perhaps l Haven has run out of money to waste but he does strangely mention four
black women by race in a women's History Month the mayor also brings forward Harriet beer Stow he has never read Uncle Tom's Cabin or he would not cite it as worthy of modern audiences if the mayor wants to promote Unity I will volunteer my time as I did when the
Dothan juneth Council invited me and Georgia historian Jack Cowart to speak to their Facebook audience in May of last year at try. State Expo conversation with the Confederacy you can see people who are trying to enhance race relations rather than divide I
would point out to the mayor our YouTube recording of the commission meeting of a month ago it has four times the views of the next highest meeting people are interested in this topic I've had people approach me in the stores and on the streets of Lin Haven they know where I live and they say how much money
are we wasting to divide this city I will conclude with the fact that the city has legal council that should be able to the mayor that Len Haven non-discrimination policy has taxpayer funds supporting a black only event this is illegal and it must cease thank you
thank thank you Jerry [Music] Parker evening commission Jerry Parker rep Place mayor last meeting I sort of want to say something that that Jody you said as well um your comments were totally
unfiltered if you want to own that that's up to you I feel you owe the community an apology because of your behavior and whether you're willing to humble yourself to do that is also up to
you thank you right thank you Ryan scay I have a question for chair um will you be providing public commentary during item number 17 today it's a discussion only item uh no just discussion only is that the is that going to include discussion from the
public all right it's commission discussion understood so um I sent everybody an email on that item that's an item that I have been personally championing for since a long long time ago easily six plus months um I thank commissioner
vandagriff for bringing it back to the commission um but I sent an email to all of you how many of the commission checked their spam inbox regularly for Citizens emails because commissioner pees pointed out that he found it there commissioner vandagriff I know she said she didn't see it commissioner
commissioner work did Pat did you see it no mayor Nelson did you find my email in the spam box before today no okay so all I'm asking here for the all call in the Parks uh revision is for private events that event promoters are coming through
the the city process for special events which I helped U make um revisions to when I did the linh Haven block party on Florida Avenue in 2021 I followed that same special events process when I did that event even though it didn't apply
to my event because I'm willing to follow the rules that the city puts in place and all I'm asking for is y'all to consider giving this opportunity a chance a chance to succeed and see how it goes if it does not go well you can always get rid of it and go back to what
we're doing now but all I'm asking is to give special event promoters a chance I've provided ample resources the city will be held harmless you can put that in the requirements you can do deposits there's so many ways you can put the onus on the special event promoters to
make this uh something that they need to follow in order to succeed and provide more events for more people that want to come to LY Haven and we're not talking about parties I mean commissioner Vandergriff talked about weddings right who wouldn't love to have a wedding at kinsaw Park and have a champagne toast
right now it's illegal uh who wouldn't want to have um a private concert at Sheffield Park and have maybe a low ABV beer during the concert which we all know happens already I mean it you go out Friday there will be alcohol out
there it will be consumed all I'm asking is for special event promoters to have a chance at doing it legal and safely to prove that it can be done one year all I ask is that you guys do it for one year I know you won't decide tonight but talk about doing it for a short amount of
time one year and give us a chance and if it doesn't go well you can strike it after the first event if the first event does not go well but I know that myself and Derek Freeman are excited to put together a brunch by the Bay with low ABV mimosas and beer if you
guys would just allow it thank you right thank you question Mr scay were you referring to the email from 11824 no it was sent this last week okay um everybody was on it so any of the other Commissioners could show you on
their devices if that's not against Sunshine but I sent it to all five of you um that's yeah thank you I guess just check your spam boxes regularly because you never know what's going to end up in there with the way the Outlook system or
whatever you guys use as all right Mr Tony Bostic after newon mayor in commissioner Tony bosnik 159 North Kell Avenue e e e e
Pro Opus mayus thank you thank you additional public commentary moving on to our reports mayor's report Proclamation for Arbor Day whereas in 1872 J Sterling proposed
to the Nebraska Board of Agriculture that a special day be set aside for the planting of trees and whereas this holiday called Arbor Day was first observed with the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska and whereas arbit is now observed throughout the nation in the world and whereas trees
can reduce the erosion of precious top soil by wind and water cut Heating and Cooling cost moderate the temperature clean the air produce oxygen and provide habitat for wildlife and whereas trees are renewable or a
renewable resource for giving us paper wood for our homes fuel for our fires and countless other wood products and whereas trees wherever they are planted are a source of joy and spiritual renewal now therefore I Jesse Nelson and the city commission I do hereby declare
April 25th 2025 as Arbor Day in the city Lin Haven Florida and we urge all citizens to celebrate Arbor Day with us in an effort to protect our trees and Woodlands on this 25th day of March 2025 I'll keep my report brief for
tonight and then have a more extensive report um for our next meeting in April I've been myself along with the city manager have been receiving uh emails from our legal or from our legislative consultant um keeping us up to date um
each day in regards to various bills that could be pertaining to matters um in the city of Lin Haven and so we've been following up with her um as well as pushing through our um legislative agenda to try to ensure that we're included in this year's budget so we
have passed the first rounds um I believe for that and so just want to um continue to um Advocate um for our city to ensure that we're um included in this year's uh legislative budget um as well and so that's been the majority of my work for these past couple of weeks have
just been advocating from that position position again have a more extensive report on uh next meeting commissioner pebles thank you mayor first I wanted to uh say you know this past week I've had some great discussions with different
citizens about potential projects or events that that could be going on so thank you for those of you that reached out to me I also wanted to thank the city manager and our CRA director for getting with me talking about the Florida Avenue project they
spend a lot of time uh answering questions about that for me and uh I greatly appreciate that uh this month I'm going to change up my monthly Meetup normally I have uh coffee with a commissioner typically the last Saturday
of the month but this Saturday I'm going to host a community cleanup day this way we can get some fresh air help continue to keep our community beautiful and um our city is a great City but I just want
to be able to help out even further you know spend some of my time and it'd be a great way to get the community involved so if you want to join me I'll be at Porter Park I kind of want to do this periodically we don't have a ton of parking in certain areas so I want to do it like in Porter Park first to see uh
how this works and they do have parking there so we'll start at Porter Park and see where it goes from there but I'll provide trash bags and gloves for you if you want to come help it we'll be at Porter Park at 9:00 a.m. I'm going to meet at the large overhang over there
just so you it'll be easy to find me and if and we'll see where it goes from there um do some any type of cleanup that we can find maybe nothing but hey at least we did our part right so I'd like to do that um and uh I just also wanted to
personally thank all the staff over these past few weeks because there's been a lot of the the spring brings a lot of events and they've been great there whether that be sports or um we're starting the Spring Concert Series there's been arts in the park other
things like that it's been a very very busy spring for our staff and none of that could happen without the staff from uh junior employees all the way up to the department heads it takes all of them so I just want to say thank you for that and that's my
report all right thank you uh before going to commissioner perno it was something I for for got to do at the beginning of the meeting and I apologize on my notes here um we all received the petitions that were sent in from 24th Street uh from to the city manager we
are received those and so if there's someone that would like to make a motion that we add to the agenda a discussion and possible approval for the Traffic Safety Committee to install traffic common devices on 24th Street um if someone if we want to do that if someone
make a motion for that I would like to make motion since the entire residents of 24th Street signed that petition I don't think there was a house that didn't so I was going to include that in my report and I would
like to make the motion that we do um and instruct uh staff to install the the speed uh their speed humps correct okay I like is there anything else we need to add to that motion or no we're just adding it to the agenda we're going to
add it to the agenda yeah well I'd make a motion we can add that to the agenda then all right is there a second I'll second all right thank you so first and second uh any comment from the public city manager if you call the vote commissioner parno yes commissioner
Peebles yes commissioner VRI yes commissioner work yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed uh thank you that'll be agenda item number 18 um commissioner perno thank you mayor um um and I appreciate you looking out for
what's going on in in session um and that that brings me to my point is we really need that appropriation for our rate study for the for the possibility of uh moving forward with u with
decommissioning our water treatment plant and moving up moving up to uh the north part the north treatment plan up in the county um with that being said we did we we did I think we we did have a
um what's called a we were facing um a a hand slap for what we've done in the past right uh and did that I understand that that was going to be finalized very
soon so what um I remind me of what it's called again consent out order consent order yes sir yeah yes did that happen um we will do the last signing of that and we will meet with them and then I think every we'll meet with every
commissioner as well but it was surely um it's been finalized though right yes we did accept that which they did I think I just signed off on everything today uh last week to send back to them was there a dollar amount attached to and we already had that amount in the
budget it was only 169,000 I think an in yes sent order was around 176,000 and then we had the inine project which will be 1.5 times that amount um we presented the uh lift
station skater project to DP they approved that today and then we had uh $550,000 in the uh fiscal year 25 budget to install the LIF station scum so where where do we go from um
planning to the the decommissioning of the water treatment plant as is that didn't offset on this consent order then correct no sir so we still have we're still moving forward with the appropriation we've made our you know our next round uh we won't know
officially until the governor gets through with his budget cuts and and redlining um but hopefully we make it all the way through and that appropriation would would be approved um and we would get it this the state's fiscal year okay did come through today
that we're still in it we're still in involved okay that's that's good news um um other than just um dealing with a couple of things um well I did read my
email today and there was an email from the heritage heritage Society about the old library and I wanted to thank them for informing me about the the condition of the old library building and where they stand I had been hearing about it
and and they put it put it uh put it up as far as uh where where it's where it's where it's at um did did all you guys get the the letter um uh is and I know Mr Walker you're you're part of the Heritage Club or
Jody so um I didn't know if uh I know there was an appeal to the public to see what we do to help raise money or do something for the the condition of that building correct or rebuilding that [Music] building okay well I just just wanted to
say that we heard we you know we hear you guys and if there's anything we could do to help with the well I I understand that's a that's that's our original Library correct and that's a the original that's a that's a good thing to
protect if it's if it's protectable or to look at so I just won't [Music] ma'am did this Gloria um she actually belongs in the group too um and so does Jerry um what we um have talked about
doing because of the condition of the building is actually um having to tear it down and rebuild it um and build a replica because of the like I said the condition of it but before we do that an appeal was put out to the community to see if there's anybody who's good at
renovations if there's a contractor who's interested um because we do have money and we have a contractor who's willing to redo that but then of course we all want to save our history so the um again this is kind of a last itch thing before we have to tear the
building down so if there's anybody who wants to help I know um you know the CRA director has actually reached out to to speak with Vicki so Vicky cook is the the one if you want to anybody wants to help if you want to reach out to her um and see if there's anything that that
can be done otherwise it looks like at this point so we're going to give it another month or two and then it looks like we're going to have to end up like I said said tearing it down and doing a replica kind of what they did in Panama City with the Garden Club so very good yeah but reach out to Vicki if you think there's anything you can do or if
anybody wants to help well I just and like and I'm sorry and like Richard said that was the original library in Bay County so you know we hate to hate to see it it it go even though it will come back in some form or another that's great and I wanted to give a little public uh awareness to
that so and uh just just with that and uh and and thank you to the people 24th Street I'll I'll thank all of our all of our city employees and all of our First Responders of military you know I'll end my
report thank you commissioner Ward um I don't have a whole lot um we um just had a at 4:00 we had um storm water assessment Workshop so if you weren't here I'd encourage you to watch it um really would like to get
residents feedback on that we had a lot of really good discussions about that um but that's all I have um thank you to all the staff First Responders and everything you do for our city appreciate it thank you commissioner
VRI I'll keep it short since we have a full house um but I would like to say that if you've called me or texted me or and I did not respond I apologize now I have four pressure granddaughters that
somehow got a hold of my phone and so now everything is in Italian so I apologize um so Mr Mayor all right thank you city manager
any questions on the warrant list okay just a couple of things I'm going to keep brief uh Ninth Street striping we'll start in about a week and we're going to do that at night so it has minimal disruption it will be right out here uh we have already sent the
golf cart study to fdot and we're just waiting to hear back from them where they say that maybe uh we can do another golf cart Crossing tree giveaway is Saturday uh one tree per household uh
staff will be verifying addresses um to make sure that people we have residents live here because they are so limited because they are F fruit trees and I know so many people want fruit trees then we ask that you just be kind and
take one of those uh fruit trees we kick off Spring Concert Series on Friday at 6 p.m. uh PC Eclipse I think it's the the band that will be on Easter EG Hunt is April 12th uh at 9:00 a.m. and that will
be at Kenall Park and then last ly we have already set a date for the public workshop for the Florida and Ohio quor Improvement and that'll be uh April 29th at 5:00 pm. right here in the walk to
Kelly Chambers we invite you all to come out and be a part of that and we will be sending out more information about the amesty day in the near future I know several of you have ask about it everybody has brief report tonight all right moving right along have no
report no report all right right moving on to our consent agenda approval of minutes for 31125 approval to the cair community service assets and surplus and authorize staff to auction off on gov deals.com
approval to declare asset Surplus and authorize to authorize staff to auction off on government deals.com and approval of residential incentive program application for 1313 nois Avenue is there a motion for this agenda motion to approve second right motion by
commissioner War second by commissioner perno City manag if you call the vote commissioner Ward yes commissioner perno yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner VRI yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed U our old business final reading of
ordinance 1178 Milestones inspections city manager if you would read this by title only please and then we'll hear from City attorney an ordinance of the city of L Haven Florida amending the city's code of ordinances related to buildings and buildings relation
regulations establishing certain requirements for Milestone inspections providing for enforcement repealing all ordinances and parts of ordinances in Conflict here with providing for severability providing for codification
and providing an effective date thank you uh do we have any additional questions for City attorney I know she's explained it to us a couple of times now well Cole was here Friday and explained it any additional questions for her in this
regard motion to approve Miss Vander question um I think it refers to again Deputy clerk does it somewhere in here refer to I think you're confusing that with the um the appointment of board members is
that what you're talking about yes yeah that's that's the one's different than that okay in that case I don't have any objections all right is there a motion for this motion to approve second all right motion by
commissioner War second by commissioner perno uh any comments from the public city man if you call the vote commissioner War yes commissioner perno yes commissioner vandagriff yes commissioner peoples yes mayor Nelson
yes motion passed moving on to new business discussion and possible approval of request for development order bab Shores parcel number 08550 d0 Miller Enterprises Incorporated we
have a brief presentation from Miss Amanda thank you you want me to swear people on now oh yeah Quai judicial this is a Quai judicial hearing so I'm swearing anybody who wants to give testimony do you want to have just
everybody rise or just yes if everyone would stand that would like to give testimony and so there will be a testimony time and then there'll also be a public commentary time okay so if you're going to give testimony during this period Then if you'll stand for the
the oath um but if you just want to comment on you know whether or not you're in favor or not in favor of it then that'll be doing public commentary which does not require you to stand for this right raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give tonight
is the truth and nothing but the truth I do and before Amanda before you get started if the commission would give any of any Jennings disclosures if you've had any contact with um folks in the community about this development if you can expose that I I have I spoke with um
two residents and they uh gave me their concerns about the development I've also spoken to some residents about the situation just residents no no one else spoken to two residents as well no
contact thank you thank you this is an application for a development order for Bay Breeze Shores the applicant is Mela Enterprises incorporated as is the owner and there is representation um here tonight the
applicant is here tonight if you have any questions for the applicant the parcel number is 08550 000000000000 and the location is 1817 Bay Breeze Drive the property is approximately
3.67 acres in size the land use on it the future land use map uh designation is high density residential which allows for between 8 and 20 dwelling units per acre so legally um you could put over 60
dwelling units on there under high density the project engineer is Brad Harris PE from KB engineering LLC and Brad Harris is here tonight the reviewing engineer was Chris sha from dubury but we actually have Richard funner from dubury here tonight if you
have any engineering questions regarding storm water there uh the applicant would like to develop 19 duplexes on the site so 38 units which is well under what could be uh constructed legally for high density
residential and also the supporting infrastructure Bay Bri's Drive is going to remain private and um an access and utility easement is Grant it's going to be granted to the city so that's been drawn out and the city will have uh
easement so that we can read the water meters Etc we get the next one the Ingress and egress is on Grassy Point Road originally with the first site plan that went to the Planning Commission there
was a small entrance proposed for Cashel Mara which was just going to be for um our emergency service Vehicles it wasn't a public access it was going to be for our fire trucks Etc and also garbage
collection however uh the portion of land the small portion of land that was included in the site plan at that time um has since been removed from the site plan and um has been given back to the owner who sold it to this developer and
that access has been removed so the site plans have been marginally updated to remove that entrance on the West Side Bay County will issue a driveway access permit following development order approval we have an email from them
saying that they intend to do that once if you decide to approve the development order seeings as how uh Grassy Point Road is a Bay County Road and not a city road and there are trees that will be removed for the project and the owner will pay $119,500 mitigation to the city
for the trees being removed from the property for the project and that will go in the city tree fund to replant trees elsewhere in the city this shows the uh designation the brown is where the project is going to
go or orange depending on how you see it um it's high density residential to the West is casam Maro which is mixed juice um and and I just want to kind of point out that became mixed juice in '95 if you all recall there used to be a house of uh Seafood on the corner there so it
was commercial so at the time that this became mixed juice um I don't know I wasn't here but I I believe that they probably thought that that could potentially either develop as more commercial or um residential because mix does allow for commercial as well as
residential and there were going to be Town Homes also on this a few years ago um but that that didn't happen and now it's split up as it is um so because you know we do wonder why high density residential was given as a land use that was given when that property was annexed
into the city in 2005 I understand so it wasn't that it was in the city and the land use was changed it was annexed in and that land use was asked for at that time just for a little bit history there this shows the aerial map of the property it's outlined in red you can
see Grassy Point Road which is going to be the entrance and exit this is the site plan that's in your packets um so on the west side is where there was going to be a little access onto kasamara culdesac there uh
that is no longer there the storm water Pond actually goes across the uh entirety of the West side this was the old site plan so this is the site plan that went to the Planning Commission for clarity um and this on the West Side had that small entrance
that has now been removed thank you all right are there any I see staff recommends approval there any questions for staff oh and I would also like to say that when it did go to the Planning Commission um they did recommend denial
based upon the original site plans we do have a member from the Planning Commission here Mr Aaron white so you asked that we could bring somebody from the planning board who was on the board to you know make that decision so he's here if you have any questions for him
yes Mr White if you will come up please can I see you signed in was that for this time yeah just okay perfect right uh questions for Mr White know we asked about the planning board being here um I just wanted to get your kind
of Summary of why it was uh voted down you were in the room so I just wanted to hear your thoughts on that sure so our meeting was uh January 7th uh when we first got to look at the uh at the development and the uh General consensus at that time was that there were several
moving parts that were going on there was potential litigation uh there was also some land access issues and so the main one of the main points was that there was too many moving parts that we felt like to pass it on with recommendation as approv understand the
planning uh department has done a great job since then again I'm representing from January 7th which was a pretty good while ago and the information that we had at that time uh if you access the um my point of view uh was that the loop it would be great for public service to
have a complete loop from cash Demar to the loop again that was a very contentious subject and that was just my personal recommendation as the dialogue that uh that was discussed again I'll also say is our minutes have not been approved from all the discussion that we had said from that we haven't officially
met yet but we'll I'm sure have that discussion when our minutes come out at our next meeting but um again that is a very narrow road when you uh enter the um the proposed only entrance into the main road off of County Road 77 right
there with the 90 degree turn and at that time we felt like that was a pretty narrow road for the amount of traffic impact that was going to be placed onto that road assuming there would only be one access point um that was where I was potentially advocating for uh access through the other again that necessarily
wouldn't be the best sound land practices because they wouldn't provide a great transitional uh land use because those are nice houses transitioning into a rental development may not be the best strategy so I understand that that's maybe one reason why the access point was been removed so at that time we just there we felt like there was too many
moving parts to recommended as approved and understand there's a lot of new information that's come out since then and so uh that's my general consensus at that time uh that there's mainly only one entrance in for the amount of traffic that would be in there again they did have a traffic study in there that showed that there would not be a
material uh impact um it just is a pretty narrow road so anything else thanks for that feedback any additional questions for Mr White uh no I just want to say thank you very much for coming and presenting this to us you I know you
don't get paid to do this as all strictly volunteer so I appreciate your your service to our community thank you thanks thank you Mr White yeah thanks um are there any additional questions for staff at this time I
do and then we'll follow up with testimony from from that what's the difference uh other than the entrance to the the the first map and the second one I mean the proposed there were there
were changes made to the storm water Pond and the location of the storm water Pond um and they so they had to be reviewed which is why there was a bit of time between the you know January and then it coming to you now um because they had made that minor Amendment to
the plans and so we had to send that out to our reviewing Engineers to make sure that that storm water Pond was still still uh still met all the requirements with it having been changed so it was the entrance and the
storm water is the difference in the two yes ma'am right I have one more point then has there been any mention of the bald eagles on this property not to me I think I heard at the work shop or I
think I heard somebody one of the maybe the Commissioners mentioned that they had heard about board Eagles um but we haven't had anybody call us and talk about oh actually I tell a lie I think we did in uh before the Planning Commission before the Planning Commission in January I think I recall
Vicki Harrison who works with me saying that she did have somebody call who was concerned about some of the wildlife that was on that property but we haven't had any emails or about the three repairs of balal I mean that isn't
something the with a with a with a development order application that isn't something that we would look at because if they were asking for a land use map Amendment and it was over a certain size the property the state requires that we have a like we look into historical
resources I think any historical resources that might be on the site we have a so they have to look at soils they have to look at um any environmental factures but that isn't something that we generally is part of the development
order application but the fact that there's state and federal guidelines for the protection of BD Eagles I'd have to defer to the City attorney on that so the city doesn't have any regulations on that there's no permit requirements and like Amanda said there
that's not a reason for the city to deny this application now if there's any state or federal permits that are required for the development this property that trigger that requirement it'll be examined then it's not within the city's jurisdiction any further questions for
Amanda I have one uh so for the as I'm reading the traffic study where it says that there would be an 8.14 Peak annual average daily trips generated and a 0.70 peak hour trip per unit when it's
talking talking about the 8.14 peak annual average daily trips is that per unit no that was for the um development okay I believe is there a copy of that in
here bring the 8.44 peak annual average daily trips and a 0 70 P trip per unit that that a isn't going to be per
unit there aren't going to be eight trips per unit PE C no okay that well that's not that's not per hour the 8.14 is daily but uh I guess 0.7 over is the peak hour and the
peak hour is the busiest hour correct so the 8.14 would be the project because if the busiest hour is given 70 then yeah it's not going to be 8.14 for the for the daily is the highest is during the peak
hour and this is while development's going on or once it's developed that's oh this is once it's developed Okay so so the math is not lining up to me but because 0.7 per hour even even if
you dropped it some per unit even if you dropped that down to like 0.2 per unit 0.2 per unit times 19 units per hour would be well over eight let me look and see if I've got it in here because if not what I can do is I've got it in my
office it actually be 38 units yeah okay yeah 19 units which would be 38 dwellings yeah if you if you want if you like I can um I'm just looking to see if it says something in the you're looking at traffic vehicle
trip generation and distribution asses with submitted projects ter 80 Peak annual average daily trips generated and 0.70 peak hour PE vehicle per hour trips generated per unit by the project
which will have a negligible impact upon the existing State Road 77 level of service this is what comes to us I mean I'm not a traffic engineer yeah that's fair I'm just putting in here what we are given yeah yeah sorry I wasn't trying to question you I was just questioning the math itself um I mean if
you want to I think I I I mean I definitely in know my major fault which I didn't bring is in my office but if you want me to go and get that analysis from the file iting while you're doing your public um commentary I can go and get
that uh no I'm not going to burden you with that um I just was kind of a bit confused on the math is all but and I'm not I don't know if Richard Richard how are you with traffic oh or Brad Brad yeah the actual engineer for the project he might be able to help you a bit more
with that sorry I'm not a transportation engineer I'm watching you sorry great uh Brad Harris KB engineering it it is 8 units roughly per unit or eight trips per unit so overall would be 8 time 38 would be the daily to
77 corre okay that makes sense that makes sense all right I appreciate that thank you thank you at this time we'll have uh can I ask mind if I ask a question for Amanda real quick sure um
Amanda um so when they originally voted on this it was the development order had changed does it typically go back to the planning board when a development order changes um I had asked the City attorney about this and she said when it's just a
minor thing like this that isn't actually changing the number of units or any of those things that it does not need to go back to the Planning Commission right it doesn't but I'm just asking historically have you seen development orders like this that have changed by the time they come to the commission that they go back to the
planning board not when it's just been a little thing like this no all right thank you you're welcome all right at this time we'll have our testimony I did see some stand up for swear again for Testimony if you
would just come up and state your name uh for the record and then provide your testimony s Mela owner of Mel Enterprises Inc 1817 bab Bri Drive um all I would ask for is to have a a fair meeting um after they stand up and give
their comments if you don't mind if we can handle it in a way that we can rebuttal to those comments as soon as that happens and to clarify new bald eagles I have a a removable Drive disc with every single tree on my property does not show a single Nest nor Fox
Barrel okay are there any questions for Mr Mela and I'll be happy to provide those for you if you like right thank you additional [Music] testimony and and yes Mr Mela once they
make their statements if there's any questions that need clarification then you will be able to you and your team will be able to come back and clarify that hi my name is William Flynn I represent the homeowners association on Cashel Mara which which saw the CU sack
that abuts the property that we're talking about I got a lot of concerns but you're going to hear from a lot of people so I just want to talk about water in sewage out got report from City Lin Haven to the city of L Haven from
Panhandle engineering that showed the water in was inadequate meet the needs of the Lin Haven fire department so it was a hard fail in that yard because there's just not enough water capacity to essentially from one
tube to feed uh Marina Bay condo and then our division which has got 17 lots and about 10 houses to add another 38 units on there the the water pressure that would
be needed by the city of Lin Haven fire department is not adequate so that's that's the water in problem we have the sewage out is our unit was designed essentially our lift station was designed for the
essentially 18 residents or somewhere around there to Triple that capacity it would put a strain on us and then the subsequent lift station that we empty into is the Marina Bay one and
then it goes through a two 4,000 ft South to the city Lin Haven and that one believe it or not that's the the weakest link and that that doesn't that's going to need a major upgrade and then what you've talked to tonight is well we're going to be redoing the whole
sewage where we're I I believe going into the county now or something so there are just too many loose ends here to go forward with this I'm asking for thank you all right
thank you is there additional testimony foot as well and my we can explain things to a little bit better did you swear Mr light foot I did not okay do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give is the truth and
nothing but the truth I do as as the resident before said um the lift station on Cashel Mira that lift station is adequate to handle the proposed development today um the lift station that it pumps to lift station 47
at the foot of the Bailey bridge that lift station needs upgrades not because of this development the lift station needs upgrades regardless if this development goes in or not it has a 4-in force man that leaves that station it goes across the canal there pumps to another lift station and and then to the
Wastewater Plant so regardless if this gets approved and built or not that lift station will be upgraded in the next 6 to 12 months with new pumps new panel and possibly a new Forest Spain as far as the water um the system was modeled it did not not meet the 1,000 gallons
per minute as required per our fire code um they went back and Mr Harris designed that uh subdivision to include fire service Taps so that each unit will have a water tap for a fire sprinkler system once they get their building permits and go vertical um at that time they can
model this the water system again and if it meets the 1,000 gallons per minute they will not have to build um the units with the sprinkler system in um but in order to to get this uh through the system now they are designing it with those Services there so there is no
concern with firef flow and the proposed structures to to meet the the demand any questions from Mr Lightfoot I guess the the part I'm confused on is um said after they build
the Thousand G gallons they going a test or something like that correct once they build the the uh subdivision they can remodel um the water system to see if the pressure went up to 1,000 gallons a minute the pressure now is based upon
the existing fire hydrants on Casal Mara it's below the 1,000 gallons per minute if the development was put in today so once they extend their water line and loop the system that may increase the water flow to not be below the 1,000 gallons per minute there's no guarantee
it'll be above right which is why they're building it with the fire service connections to sprinkle the buildings okay yeah I think uh the best way to explain is a fire hydrant is you have to have a th000 gallons per minute and we
do not meet that right now so in Li of fire hydrant we will be providing direct sprinkler to the building so the buildings internally would get sprinkled instead of from fire hydrant so is there a certain code or something that addresses that if you can't get the th000 gallons a minute
that you can do that the fire okay addition we also have a backup plan so already on the property with an addition existing uh 6 inch from the count 6 inch line from the county with the fire hydr within the property so we are allowed we have the okay from the
county to strictly just run uh our our sprinkler or fire hydrant or fire suppression system through the county and lift ly than just do strictly just for the homes all right adding units you're adding all those
residential units in there you say well we can get covered from the county for but what about us who's already got built houses it's very hard to put a sprinkler system in a buil house so I I I really think this needs
to be looked at in depth and get some assurances for us because I don't want to have inadequate fire protection for my house right thank you Mr Flynn is there additional
[Music] testimony uh the system was modeled the two fire hydrants one of them was 640 gallons a minute the other one was 76 gallons a minute so they'd have to come up with a 30% additional gallons per minute load and not only that if they're going to be
getting their water service off of the 6 inch line that comes from the neighborhood and they're drinking water and running water then what about the fire um pressure for the other neighborhood so I mean I think that needs to be considered what's your name sir just for
samstone samstone 331 Grassy Point Road okay y have the numbers got it is there someone else for Testimony John grck here on behalf of mpoint Landing Home Owners Association uh we
previously actually filed litigation against uh Mr melo's company Mela Enterprises with regards to the sliver that was removed from the plan uh we're still working on that we are happy that the sliver has been uh I guess returned
to the uh previous property owner uh our main concern with this new development plan that appears in the agenda is that it states that the flood elevation is still
ae7 back in October of 2024 I believe it was October 24th of 2024 this area was actually designated as ae12 which would require that there be 13 ft of
elevation uh and based on the County GIS records for that property the elevation for the property is primarily either 3 to four feet above sea level meaning I would assume that these houses either need to be built on stilts to comply
with the Florida building code or they need to bring in 10 ft of of fill for the entire 3 Acre parcel um additionally this stormw water Pond is also appears to AB but a storm water
easement that appears in the plat of the association whereas I I don't know it does not appear to provide for any sort of uh flow between those two ponds which could result in one spelling to the other and creating additional
flooding um beyond that uh I believe that is it thank you right any questions thank you good evening I'm Julie somy I represent Mela Enterprises do I need to
be sworn in I have wasn't sure I just want to address the litigation briefly there was litigation filed by the homeowners association against my client but also against a homeowner in the association over a sliver of property that the homeowner
conveyed to my client my client had included that's all part of the gate that was going to come off of C Cashel Mera for emergency vehicle access only um and as you have been advised by staff that has been taken out of the plan the plan has been revised to remove that in
addition Mela Enterprises transferred the sliver back to the homeowner the homeowners association has dismissed the lawsuit against the homeowner home and as to Mela Enterprises we have moved to dismiss the
action because it has been rendered moot the entire purpose of the action was to obtain some type of injunctive relief or other relief related to the sliver and my clients attempted use of that in the development plan which now has been
removed the plan has been amended and the sliver has been returned to the homeowner who has been dismissed from the action by the HOA so that's the actual status of the litigation uh what the only thing we're working through is
our motion to dismiss Ward I don't know if she'd be the one to answer this but the the cons oh it's okay um as far as the the flood zone what was it AE 7 to a12 flood zone is not my area of
expertise okay sorry Mr Mr M I actually brought plans for each one of you to have if I'm I approach you give those to the City attorney okay PL in front of you to answer the previous question do show the the the
the units on piling so it does meet that that elevation requirement so under at the very base is just not livable space and then the first base floor uh would be at the 12 a foot above base flood does this s your your question
commissioner Ward it's hard because I'm not a legal expert but I I I guess what I'm trying to figure out is does this qualify for the going to ae12 going on stilt because when I Envision stilts I don't Envision
this but this may be okay I don't know is okay under the flood elevation requirements um to have unhabitable space um under that elev so her is if his elevation is required to be 14 he can have unhabitable space like this it doesn't necessarily have to be stilts it
can be it has to have like washway walls and there are certain requirements in the building code but um this isn't an automatic strike it's possible okay thank you so additional yes sir just just add on to the flood zone uh it was updated
in October we've updated our plans to reflect the elevation of uh 12 I believe it is maybe 13 I don't have the plans front of me um the finished floor elevation has been set a foot higher and like Mr M did mentioned there would be still because we're not bringing in 10
foot of fill so right any additional testimony at this time we'll close our quad judicial public hearing so what we'll do at this moment is if there is a motion from the commission to move forward with this
then we'll receive public commentary at that time so is there a mo is there a motion to approve the request for the development order for Bay B short Shores by m Enterprises Incorporated can I just mention my
concern yeah I guess my concern is since there's litigation going on how I mean I've never dealt with this since I've been on the commission I I don't know where that puts us so the the city is not a party to the litigation and it has no bearing on the decision you make
today your decision is based on whether or not they meet the requirements of your code to De to develop this property no I will say that the litigation may impact the developer ability to develop this property if you do approve it but that's not the city's concern so the litigation should have no bearing on
your decision okay thank you with that being clarified is there a motion to approve the development order request for Bay B Shores you may make a motion to approve a motion to deny or a motion to approve
with conditions all right so no motion for that agenda item can since been changes to the development order a lot of things have changed can I make a motion to send this back to the planning board for them to
review it again the recommend the planning board's decision is only a recommendation it's not binding on this commission so your own process doesn't contemplate that and it doesn't require that right but that was my my question my question is is that an
option your code doesn't contemplate that in this circumstance you may take it if you think you need more information to continue this hearing um for another cycle um but I don't know that you can send it back to the
planning board okay I guess then I would like to make a motion to table it to make sure we have all the information we need to make a decision all right so we'll table this until the next commission meeting not
yet all right there's a motion on the floor to table this to the next Commission meeting is there a second for that I'll second that all right motion and second all right comments from the public I don't understand why this need
to be tabled when all the conditions have been met so I'm not sure what are we tbling on like what are you still concerned about and what is your questions so a lot of the things that have been brought up like the flood zone and everything because I'm not experts on any of this stuff that's been
answered okay right and so I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything because you know we're getting all this information all at a certain time and you know you know how it is when you think about something you go to bed and you think about it and you're like what about this I just want to make sure that
I'm not missing something well you you shouldn't be missing anything because you you showed up to the property with another person to actually discuss it so at that point which was a couple months ago I believe do you remember that yeah okay so you've had time to think about it since then so are you still thinking
about it or no no no there but there's other information that has come forward since then like I didn't know about this uh flood elevation thing um the bald eagle thing I didn't know anything bald eagle is something that she was brainwashed into and I'm sorry to have to be straight up honest with you I
um I've very clearly talked to multiples uh people in this in this audience right here and it's a it's a it's a corrupt system no all right I'm not going to so may I may I speak the if you continue
this for another cycle I I do want to make clear that because this is a qua judicial hearing you do have to make your decision based on the evidence you hear in the hearing you do not get to do an independent investigation to make your decision here and it seems to to me like you're allowing that to happen and especially I don't expect no yes from
her she's allowing the public to input excuses into her head why not to approve it that's clear to me all right are there any other questions for Mr
Mela all right thank you Commissioners respectfully you the law requires you to prioritize my client's property rights here my client has a right to develop his property you have heard from your
own own staff that this application for development order meets all of the city requirements as to the flood elevation you've heard from your own staff that this is passed as to the the still issue you have heard from your own staff that
this passes the requirements of the city as far as the bald eagle issue goes you have received no testimony today that there are bald eagles or that there is any federal jur State jurisdiction over bald eagles that exist
on that property as your attorney told you this commission and the City of lyh Haven doesn't have jurisdiction over bald eagles or any other type of protected Wildlife that I'm aware of that's a
state or federal issue and for a point of of order here on January s the issue of the bald eagles was raised by by a resident at the planning board meeting it is March
25th yet there has been no action by an authority with actual jurisdiction to do anything about the alleged bald eagles as your attorney has stated this is a quas Judicial proceeding you must make
your decision based on the evidence you've received not evidence that you've acquired outside of this hearing and certainly not based on the idea that there's a bald eagle there's been no testimony today that there was a bald
eagle anywhere on the property so respectfully I urge you to to uh vote no on this motion and approve the development order thank
you right thank you 6331 grass point R this still does not resolve the issue of you giving 38 water taps to a neighborhood and preventing fire for the neighborhood next door I mean it's an assumption that they may
make pressure do you have it in writing that they're going to get a fire hydrant from the county what are the legal aspects of that I have no idea but I mean if you're going to give them 38 water taps and it drops the water pressure it's already been calculated 637 gallons per minute and 706 gallons
per minute you're preventing the other homes from having fire protection now if they're going to run a whole new water line across the bridge and pay for that then you know I don't know you know that's a decision you have to make but right now if you allow them 38 water taps there is no fire protection for the
neighborhood next door that built a long time ago now I'm not against anybody making money or doing development or whatever but it just is what it is all right thank you hold on this is just public comment yes
sir yes sir let's give us your name for the record then I can go to this list my name is Harry erson I'm on 642 Grassy Point Road it'll be right across from
this development I have done extensive research and taken pictures of the so-called bald eagles I handed it over to commissioner Judy uh to have a look
at there's a enormous amount of wildli in that area next to where I live is the for is I think it's 40 acres um vacant L it's just woods and
then to the north of me towards the pond to where you enter Grassi Point Road the county has got upon there is also Woods uh we have a lot of deer a lot of
bird life it's a sanctuary you I've got two o uh a breeding pair of ospr right now making a
huge Nest inside the sou Tower I send the gave the pictures it is our responsibility to protect these animals they go across the road to my
neighbors across the road they do use the trees the deer cross over the black top into that field to go and eat in the afternoons we feel it's our
responsibility to protect this little bit that we've got left here in well I want say um Len this area across the bay it is important to
us I've got s Acres there with a 100t of um Bay and there's a picture there of the deer tracks there deer coming through there
every night that's all I wanted to say because uh we I didn't mention it the previous meeting and I didn't think it was necessary again to mention it but I've got the folder there if you can maybe
pass it I should have made seven or so thank you for your time thank you this public commentary my name is Carrie Huff I own CR Auto on the corner of uh Grassy Point Road in 77 my problem is there's a lot of
traffic on that road already it is a very dangerous intersection I have cameras I have videos of all kinds of accidents that happened there all the time the residents when they come out and try to come off of that road and turn left it they sit there for 10 15
minutes sometimes there's a lot of traffic right there it is it my P my daughter works for me she was sideswiped she was over on in the ditch over there a FedEx truck turned in they have to turn in at 60 MPH because the traffic is coming so fast through there so you know
the FedEx truck couldn't make it fast enough cu the cars behind him were blowing the horns at him and she he sideswiped her so I mean there's a lot of traffic there adding another 300 Vehicles a day is going to be a problem that will create
accidents thank you just public commentary there's no rebuttal for this my name is Thomas stone I live at uh 6331 Grassy Point Road and uh to further his statement and Mr White I think it was statement
um C planner wherever he spoke first main concern is Public Safety and pulling out of that road is hard enough I sit there for 10 minutes sometimes just trying to pull out out on the road not to mention coming off of 77 taking a right
immediately headed back south on Grassy Point Road you're forced to do a sharp turn you're forced to turn immediately slowing down from 55 miles hour which is speed limit to whatever you're going to do on the road often times I find myself
really coming on to oncoming traffic in the wrong lane so it's just not set up for it how how how much do you value Public Safety that's what you got to ask yourself if you want this to pass drive down the road see for yourself it just
doesn't work I don't care what you do on your property I really don't do whatever you want but the main concern here for me and I think it should be for yourselves is Public Safety so it's all I got to say all right thank you
additional public commentary uh Stephen Sims okay all right and after Mr Sims we have Ross uh my name is Stephen Paul Sims I live at uh 6326 Grassy Point Road I have
a lot of concerns there's a lot of people in this room that have concerns there's a gallery of Voters behind me who don't want to see this happen and that includes me uh they don't want a three-story anything looking down in their backyard or across their house or into their porch or anything like that
it's a strange fit to me I've been in construction all my life built houses I've built Apartments I've built Town Homes I've built all kinds of things I've owned them and this is a strange fit to take a high density residential thing and cram it in between a
neighborhood and basically what amounts to Farmland it's a weird fit um I don't want to see it happen I don't I don't believe it can happen I don't think he can make it work here's why I don't think he can make it work I've been in construction all my life and I know what
it takes to build something and I couldn't build what he wants to build there and make it work here's why he can't just build it someone hasn't told him all the information them all the information or you all the information and here's some of the information you need to know to build the thing he's going to have to widen the road because
the road the county they may have sent him a form email that said yeah we'll in you a thing if they give you a if they give you a development order yeah they do that they'll they send you a form email it's the same one they send everyone but when it actually goes over to their review you they're going to tell him that he has to pay to buy the
right away that means he's got to buy land from me and all my neighbors going down the road that means he's going to have to buy the auto shop because I've been told by representatives of the county when I had face-to-face discussions with them that he was going to have to buy up right away from me he was going to have to widen the road he
was probably going to have to put in a a turn a turn light there a stop light he was probably going to have to buy the car uh repair place to put in a turn lane that's what I was told by the county now I don't think he can afford to make this thing work so I think what's going to happen is he's going to get halfway through he's going to lose
his shirt like a bunch of other people who've never been in construction of done and he's going to leave a blighted situation in the middle of ly Haven that is now my problem why is it my problem because none of the traffic's going through lyh Haven the traffic's not coming to you it's real easy to sit here
as linh Haven people and vote on what happens to the county which doesn't affect you at all but all these 308 so or so cars a day that are going to exit immediately in front of my house they're going to exit down that that road right there that's a problem for me I don't
want this to happen I don't think it can happen while I have your attention I'm going to tell you that there are a gallery of people behind me and I will give them a chance to admonish me and tell me I'm wrong they feel hurt they feel offended they feel like somebody at
the city tried to pull a fast one here's why there's a public notice sign it wasn't put in there the city originally this thing was supposed to enter off of bab or off of the kasamara the sign wasn't put there to notify the members of this the uh HOA that this thing was
coming the sign was put on the sign was put in the county and it wasn't for two ladies to walk down the street no we wouldn't have known thank [Music] you please please refrain from Applause or we'll have to move on from public
commentary thank you even I'm Ross Pritchard I own 121 casamar it's the little Notch at the bottom left I'm west and south of the project my only thing that I'll address is storm water uh that's been a big topic with Len Haven as long as we can
remember um the overspill from the pond but the other thing is like the ae7 versus the ae12 flood zone that's an a flood zone with elevation 7 ft versus 12T the other thing that you have to look at at the new map is where they
moved and this affects my property too they moved What's called the limo line and that's the limit of moderate wave action if that's shown on there everything south of the limo line is Coastal you don't have a choice of
building you know uh storage only it's only on piles there's not an option it's is considered Coastal so everything south of the limo line is Coastal I think there's just enough that's been tweaked or missing
that just just table it update it and then move it forward I think that's just it just you know I think enough of it's just missing out of here you know to even get a vote on it up or down thanks thank you uh we also have
Jennifer O'Neal okay I'm going by my list right here so you can come on and then miss O'Neal all right my name is Paul Sims I don't know any of you except for the mayor I've
developed several subdivisions in Bay County I've put buil over a thousand homes and have developed about 45 to 50 subdivisions when this came up and I
came to the the planning meeting the person that works for the city didn't have any of her information correctly on this flood zone she didn't have any of so the planning what they what even though they didn't have all
this she should have never brought it Forward because it was already there for her to find she should have had that I don't know her name I'm not mad at or anything uh after it came up I decided I'd go out there to the road and take a drive because I believe it was this
gentleman one of you said you drove out there was it you one of you said that did you ever drive out on okay I thought it would I went out there and I called the county and when you go out 70 7 and you turn on to Grassy Point Road the
county owns a rideway there that's 60 ft for the first 250 ft 6 foot after that they only got a 44t rway and right now the asphalt is only
14 ft wide and at every subdivision that I built in ly Haven at a 60 foot right away and the asphalt is let's see I got is 22 feet wide it's on a 60 foot rway
you'll have 22 ft of Road that's paved and then you'll have 19 ft on each side and the the rideway down through there right now is 14t and when I when I was with my son in the county they go I
don't they they don't have enough room y'all just go out there and measure it and you'll see and let me tell you something about that was beautiful I have four four grandchildren that live over there and every one of them can come up here and tell you right
now there's not just Eagles there there's a special bird there that came through last year and a lot of people in this room never saw it a white pelicans white pelicans what a beautiful bird there it's a it's a freshwater bird that
comes from up North and goes down there but uh I personally have not seen the Eagles but they have and told me about them uh uh I there's just too much of this well we could do this and we could do that we might do this and then we maybe we could
do that and we we're coming up here this would do this and they got too many ifans and butts about it for me to make a decision on anything I appreciate you hearing from me thank you General O'Neal I I'm Jennifer O'Neal 6 341
Grassy Point Road uh as far as the traffic uh goes does that eight trips include the FedEx the Walmart delivery the UPS guy uh everybody else is going to be coming through there besides the
residents me I think that needs to be thrown in there because that's added to the traffic and it is a dangerous uh intersection up here as far as the uh bald eagles go I have hundreds of pictures probably not on his property because when he bought the property he
cleared everything off he's only got like two trees uh but yes lots of wildlife lots of pictures uh thank you thank you and believe this is guy or
Gary guy all right all interp U 1804 F drive my our property joins just on the back side of the said property um couple things that we were concerned about is there going to be since linh Haven it's now considered part of linh
Haven we're going to have linh Haven Police patrols starting and continuing on through this as well this school buses school buses be coming down that small driveway I mean I call it a driveway it's it's a road but it's like
M sim said is not near wide enough um and as far as the 38 units we're everybody's been talking to one vehicle per unit there should be two vehicles per unit it's for the wife and
husband so which doubles the amount of traffic now uh of course everybody else has already BR up everything else besides that but I just want to bring that up thanks thank you uh commission do you have any
additional questions for the developer right Mr [Music] Walker you are are you on for this one yeah yes I do have that note here yes sir
appreciate thank you for the reminder I have a list here you have a lot to think about okay uh I have one two three four five six things to say um B Eagles you had pictures of them there right thank
you so that satisfies requirement all Eagles are are more anger species they are the American bird made that way by President of the United States that's what our military
follows follows that bird protection um all trees are being removed from this area and mitigated for $119,000 uh Landscaping has to be done on a new development you going to put the old trees back no um there's a
federal Cemetery there property it's on was discussed many time years ago over here and there's a no trespassing sign on the property it's in that area uh the value of the homes along
there one home there in right there is probably going to be a Enclave when you do this and that's a million dollars taxable value that's going down across the street it's another one million
dollars taxable value going down traffic mathematics does not prove going to be rental property and you then people can put as many cars as they want in there and golf carts
the exit is on a litigation I know I haven't heard it's been solved that is contingent and planner said that it didn't matter with the city of ly Haven it does matter because if that exit isn't there the emergency vehicles
cannot get in and out ladies and gentlemen you have a lot to think about for the public and to protect them thank you thank you let's hold our please he's coming he
hasn't yes sir and then you can yes sir uh Joshua Cruz I live at 118 casara literally right beside where they're trying to develop this land and uh the biggest thing I wanted to say is that everything that these people are speaking about is absolutely
true um I have seen I've been living there for about two months and I have seen the bald eagle multiple times um whatever bird hawk or whatever lives up in the cell tower I don't know if it's the bald
eagle or what it is but I've actually seen it come down on that land and pick up a snake or something and take it up there um so there's multiple different types of Wildlife and then uh I see
foxes just about every morning Turtles there's all typ of wildlife so I really feel like it would affect that and then everything you add on you know from not being able to access from casar to Grassy Point all the water issues there like it
actually could be a issue and uh really just with the way the land is and the way the access points are even if they could only access it from one or both points it's just bringing too much congestion there to that area and uh so
but the bald eagles definitely happened I actually was pretty shocked when I saw it since um asked my girlfriend it's pretty cool then but thank you all right Mr scay so one of the things I love about Florida is freedom and one of the things
I hate is freedom you have a right to develop in Florida we've already heard that she attest to that you all know that we've watched how many development orders come through here that we don't like it's not what's best for the community but it's the right to develop and if they meet the rules that the city
has in place what legal grounds do you have to say no I hate it I think it's a terrible idea as a citizen as a business person I'm sure it's a great idea it's going to make a money that's the thing we love about America you can be an entrepreneur and you can make money but
the city could have prevented this we have a non-binding referendum on our ballot for zoning there are plenty of other cities and communities throughout the state throughout this country that have zoning Neighborhood use districts this property is I believe is a future
land use of residential if this setup that he wants to build is allowed in that that's what the city allowed that's what you guys allowed all the people that served on this commission for 100 years before you that's what they allowed so zoning could have prevented
this a commission before you or even this commission two years ago could have implemented zoning and said you know what up here along the bay nothing but single family residences no duplexes no apartments no Town Homes you could have done that you didn't you're thinking
about it it's a non-binding referendum that's great little bit too late for this development order so I mean think about all the development orders think about you know development orders out by the corner 390 in Harvard that had to be approved that was the public didn't like
you know think about other development orders think about the one uh down on Minnesota there were departments people didn't like that idea it never got built yet maybe it will maybe it won't but all these development orders that get approved because Florida's a right to
develop State and we have rules in place and processes and if all the boxes get checked you guys are handcuffed to saying yes because that's the rules that are in place and I don't like it and so that's why I think I don't know if this
allowed for or not but everybody needs to vote Yes on the referendum for zoning so you can fix problems like this right yes ma'am Ana poan I work with Mel Enterprises in regards to the Eagles when we're talking about the tower that
the nest most likely is in because it's not on that property not on our property that Tower is not on our property I'm sure that eagle flies through cash over their homes I'm through I'm sure it flies through everybody else on on Grassy Point so you cannot sit there and say that our property cannot be
developed because an eagle happens to be flying through it our property is not deemed a conservation preserve or any type of Wildlife Refuge it's a highdensity residential property that's been zoned in city of Lin Haven to be able to develop and like Amanda has said
we've chosen to go on the lower side we wanted to we could put mobile homes there but we choose not to because that area is a very nice area there very nice homes so we wanted to keep with that same aesthetic so we're trying to work with the neighbors we're trying to work
with the community to build something that would actually bring value and look nice and as far as the grave sites there is no grave sites on our property the grave sites is on Mr Ross's Pritchard property not on ours so there's no confederate army military no sites on
our so I just wanted to clarify that thank you all right thank you all right so there's a motion by commissioner war and second by commissioner perno to table this to the next meeting uh you keeping those
motions yeah I just want to make sure this is legal what we're doing but tbling it it's legal to continue the hearing it is not appropriate for you to use that time in between to do additional or independent investigations your decision has to be made on the
evidence you hear in the hearing can't talk to Chris Lightfoot about water uh amount of water that's required you can ask him questions right now okay are there any questions for any
staff at this moment I'd like to ask a question mayor if I can yes um I don't know if um just and I don't want to put our our our fire chief on the spot but Chief um because the change the change in the entrance
way for the emergency vehicles to the to using the main entrance you have to go all the way up 77 turn and come down Grassy Point and come through and use the Hammerhead so did that does that change
response time going up that far will increase response times um my question would be has a traffic study been done because people coming out of that area are they going to have to go right are they going to be
able to go left as it's been stated here tonight you know when you do go across there you are going to have more traffic accidents with that much more traffic I don't know I haven't been here but five months I don't know much about the project but from a public safety
standpoint with traffic that's what I've seen and heard from tonight any additional questions I I just need to well do we have a do we have an average response time like that a quot of average
response time that we I couldn't give you that tonight okay okay I just or U you know I I was wondering about that because you know when you come off cash when you come off House of Seafood drive and cash should go through I mean his
response time's got to be way way less than going up and making that hairpin turn coming down coming all the way back down Grassy Point Road so um that's that's that's a concern to me you know
um but I [Music] mean we changed the plan but do we do we factor in what's the response time so any additional questions for the
chief no so we're we're discussing right now okay neighor as far as the fire flow and the fire hydrants the city's code is a th gallons I would have to defer that to
director Lightfoot because he's done a study on the water flow I have not like I said I have not been a part of this project as far as water and what they want to do I would have to defer to the director of Public Works did you answer that question
earlier yes sir and as we said when we model a proposed new development it's based on what the development is going to be not the impact it has on the rest of the city or the other City I get that that is a concern but that is not something that we go look at for every
proposed development on whether it brings fir flow down and other areas right thank you sorry sir sir sir that's that's all the question's been answered thank
you if there any more outbursts I ask for you to be removed so thank you all right are there any additional questions from the commission yeah I have a question so the the one question I had was just answered the other one I had was the other
biggest issue that I mean we've talked about the Eagles and all that but biggest issue that that I don't really know the answer to Is the widening of the road so the the biggest issue that or one of the issues I kept hearing was the width of the road I just want to
brainstorm I think that's the County's issue yeah so with it being the County's issue if if wouldn't that mean that the Count's Threw It On Us where they're not going to give a permit correct it's pending on on us but if the county deems that the road's not wide enough then
they would stop them from developing anyways right because they have to give the permit I don't I'm not super familiar with the County's regulations but they would likely require either the developer to bring the road up to a standard that would meet capacity or to front the money to enable the county to
do so okay so the county could potentially take care of that so if that's the issue then it's a county issue all right are there any more questions for the developer all right see the manag I um I
like to resend my motion if I don't remember who seconded it because commissioner perno was the second so you don't want to table this no it it and and you know Ryan scay said it best and and when we sit up here we
can't sit here and make a decision based on how we feel we know all know that and we know it's a right developed State um I just had concerns about whether this is legal or not and from everybody's telling me it's legal you know so if if
everyone's you know confident that we're doing everything legal then yeah that we have an obligation to vote on it even if we don't know what response times are for the for the fire because it was already stated I don't know that that's a
requirement for a development order that's what I'm getting at if it's not a requirement then we can't vote on it like that oh I mean if we met every legal if if the developer met every local state and federal regulation
then it we have to let them develop there's there's what ifs like about about um water pressure and all right so commissioner War wants to resend his motion commission perno do
you second that yes uh if you don't want to table it I mean unless I'm missing something here I'm trying to make sure that I'm not missing anything but I I heard one thing from the audience that was directed at Mr life foot is there going
to is there cuz we've we've had a we had a land use issue a while back and it was about it was about um whether or not the man wanted to expand his property and he ended up he ended up uh going into the county instead of linh
Haven and it was about uh fire um fire hydrants and whether they were looped or not I know I heard that question from the audience but is this looped no sir the system's not looped I mean our water line goes up there that is the end of our city limits
there at casel marrow so you said even if this takes the other ones down and cash you Cas below a th000 this is still legal so and Amanda and the attorney can correct me if I'm wrong but we cannot base our
assumption on a development lowering the water pressure in other places it's based upon what we model whenever they submit their proposed development and based on their model they'll have 100,000 gallons a minute okay that was reviewed by the fire
inspector and agreed to about the sprinkled buildings when they apply for their building permits and all that's in the development order okay thanks look I I don't like it as much as you do if you if you want to votee Let's vote
I'll I'll resend the second all right all right is there a motion to approve the development order motion to approve right is there a second well even though I'm simple-minded and have been brainwashed
according to Mr melow I second it you should all right so there's a motion and there is a second we've had discussion city manager
we call the vote commissioner War yes commissioner ven no commissioner pebles no commissioner perno no mayor Nelson yes motion dies or motion
[Applause] fail it's not an automatic denial because you also have the option to approve with conditions or to deny so I need you to make another motion that's either to approve with conditions or to affirmatively deny it I have to render a written order I can't assume what the
other option is can we make it a motion to proove if they get permission from the county for the road I I'm yeah I'll second that and is that legal I I don't know you just made the motion so okay I made the
motion all right so there's a motion to in a second can I can I ask commissioner W to cave out that motion beyond the um the road and say that that there should be a a test for the for the pressure of
the water um I don't know at what point but I mean before you know before occupancy maybe before Co you can do that they will already do that because when they pull their building permits if they do
not meet the 1,000 gallons per minute the fire inspector will require the building to be sprinkled they're already putting the services as part of these plans to do that now if you're that concerned about the water you could put a condition in there about tying into the county whether the county approves
that or not I don't know and then it may have to come back to us do you hear that Mr War it's your motion yeah I heard that I I don't know this this has gotten so complicated all right so we'll keep it simple there's a
motion to approve with the condition that the county approves that approves the road there's a second by commissioner Peebles all right is that good all right city manager if you call
the vote commissioner War yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner venag no and the reason can I State why um I still have concerns over the water pressure at cassa
I don't feel that's been addressed forgive me I'm simple-minded all right no no mayor Nelson yes motion passes moving on to agenda item number 14 discussion and possible approval of
resolution 20250 03052 approving $1,056 to property 1106 Wyoming Avenue for cost incurred by the city to Abate nuanes located upon such a property is
there a motion for this motion to approve second motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner Peebles is there a public comment on this city man call the vote you want me to read a resolution yes please yes a
resolution of the city of Lin Haven Florida proven an amount $1,565 to be leaned on property located at 1106 Wyoming Avenue for incurred by the city to Abate nuisances located upon
such property authorizing the appropriate officers of the city of the rec City to record the lean and notify interested pars of such lean and providing immediately effective date yes if you call the vote
so uh commissioner war and commissioner pebles commissioner no I'm sorry commissioner perno commissioner pees commissioner perno yes commissioner Peebles yes commissioner Ward yes
commissioner vandagriff yes mayor Nelson yes motion pass discussion and possible approval to award ifb 24253 unification Grant project Phase 2 to Pine and Grove Nursery and Landscaping the amount of
9,878 35 is there a motion to approve this motion to approve second all right motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner war is there comments from the public on this all right no comments all right
commissioner perno yes and thank you for the for the grant commissioner Ward yes commissioner VRI yes commissioner pebles yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed
uh L of in lie of time and commission you may or may not agree with this would you be in agreement for us to table discussion for items 16 and 177 till our next meeting so we can go to item number 18 to discuss Fourth
Street I mean I think 17's easy I mean yeah we we just wanted to quickly present it so that the citizens would know that it's an option okay can we do we need to do anything official to postpone item number 16 to next commission
meeting yeah I don't have a problem with that okay we'll get little more time to look over it as well all right uh item number 17 discussion only about the consumption of and sale of alcohol for City sponsored events on City facilities commissioner V Griff yes a couple of months ago a group of citizens
approached me about the possibility of um private individuals uh on city property being able to use uh alcohol um I brought it to the pre-commission
meeting it was discussed I asked the Commissioners to go out to talk to the citizens to see if they were in agreement uh last week uh we decided to put it on the agenda for discussion only so that the citizens would know what we
were thinking so that's it and it's a private it's not for the pub it's not for the City activities like concerts in the park and that it's not for it is not for concerts in the park or the egg hunt or the art
projects it is strictly for someone rents a spa space in the city like the garden center and they want to have a wedding and serve champagne as an example additional discussion from the
commission I was just going to say for anyone out there that's watching or listening um our agenda packets are online so if you have you can obviously reach out to us but if you want to read into stuff that's the history of this
you can go into our agenda packet read um what's on the number 17 but also a few months ago this was brought up originally with some ideas and there's minutes on what we talked about so if this if this item is important to you whether you're for it or against it or
indifferent and you just want to give suggestions please please please reach out to us read those agenda minutes um the commission meeting minutes read the agenda packets get ideas together I want to know if you're for it or for against
they're indifferent I just want to do what the the overall citizens want on this matter that's that's what's important right earlier we did have a comment from Mr scay regarding this is there any other comments from the public on
this all right moving on to agenda number 18 discussion and possible approval for Traffic Safety Committee to install traffic calming devices on 24th Street is there a motion for this uh I'd like to make the motion to
approve um but I'd like to ask Bobby how long will it take to to put it in place well we'll order them tomorrow so it's just a matter of when they can deliver them but we're only doing it for 24th
right yes this is just 24th Street comes and my question is is where's the placement of going to be because it I know in the policy it says 300 to 500 ft apart from each other which is important because if they're spaced too far apart then they become ineffective right so
we'll start it you know there's a creek crossing right in the middle we'll start with that as the center and then move them out one to the south or east and one to the West there's going to be three of them no two of them we're not going to put one at the creek
we'll use that as a center point will it be space apart between 3 and 500 ft from each other yeah yeah okay all right thank you all right motion motion to approve there a second
second right is there comments from the public right C man if you call the vote commissioner perno yes commission War yes commissioner VRI yes commissioner Peebles yes mayor Nelson yes motion pass meeting adjourned