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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=FNeW62XDOMo

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uh the bashers for being here this morning. Um and our other guest, welcome. Miss Gina is about to kick this party off with us this morning as we look at uh how we need to update our unified land development code aka DC.

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So, thanks for joining us and uh Gina, the floor is yours, my lady. Good morning. I got one. This izing it's it's bringing it up to current law,

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current growth patterns. Linhaven grow has grown uh and there's different patterns that that we can discuss a little bit later. Uh infrastructure needs, as you know, there's changing infrastructure. We're running to into

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that on a constant basis in our day-to-day operations. Uh um infrastructure needs, redevelopment priorities, annexation goals, environmental constraints, and emerging high resource demand uses. Now,

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that's a big one because that includes AI data centers. So, that's what we're talking about when we're we're talking about modernization. Now aligning. So we have we want to align make the two documents the

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comprehensive plan and the United unified land development code work together. That's our whole goal. That's the purpose that of the state of Florida. They want they demand to have that it is a requirement to have the

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comprehensive plan. It is statemandated and from that we are to create a unified land development code that helps us that aligns with the comprehensive plan and helps us in our day-to-day

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operations. It helps us the here and now to say what land use what can happen on property within the city of Linhaven. So uh it sets the pol the comprehensive plan

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sets the policy direction. I want you to remember that comprehensive plan sets the comp sets the direction that the for our long-term goals and the ULDC implements the direction through zoning development zoning development standards procedures

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and review criteria. So that's what we're trying to align. Now we also want to in this whole process we want to clarify uh clarifying code is imperative because we want to

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make sure that we are creating a defensible code so we don't run into well your code says this and that doesn't apply to my property. So um making the documents easier to understand and apply

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by separ separating future land use map policy from zoning regulation. Now I you know I was here I I participated Ry is here uh he um was the consultant that did our la our last comprehensive plan

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update. He's done work for us in the past. He knows our code. He he spoke to you um in that workshop previous workshop gave you asked for direction. I'm I was on the you know after I talked to him and when I first got started I

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was like yeah we we don't we have a zoning map. That was one of your questions. Do we need a zoning map a a secondary map? And that that kind of is what has spurred this conversation right? Do we need a zoning map? We have one. It's our but it's one and the same.

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It's a single layer. Our comprehensive plan and our ULDC is a single single layer map. And I'm going to explain that in more detail because that's where things get a little confusing. Uh so we want we want to apply by separating that

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future land use policy from the zoning regulation, removing inconsistent terminology, and improving predictability for staff, applicants, residents, and decision makers. It can be so hard where you're sitting to make

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a decision on an application when our code is not clear and concise. I've I've ran into this throughout my entire career. Cities have to maintain an evolving updating

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code especially for staff because then we run into you know it it gets applied and it's not clear and so it creates this ambiguity this confusion not only for us as staff how how do I as the

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planning director apply a code that says something completely different than what we've been doing and so um we're trying to clean that That's the whole purpose of this. So, I'm going to go through. So, that's clarifying to clarify. So, you will see you you'll hear me say this

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throughout. Um, but I want to make sure that that is that is our goal is to modernize, align, and clarify the comprehensive plan and the ULDC. And that is to help us work together as a whole unit within the city to make our

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processes more seamless. So um as we go so we're going to go through this slide by slide. So work what the purpose of this is it's to set the tone that the workshop so this is I

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I made a mistake on that the workshop is for policy direction not final adoption. So my proposal is is going to be twofold. So, um,

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we want to, um, let's see. I lost my points here. Um, I'm behind. So, our primary goal,

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I'm up here. Yeah, thank you. I'm like sitting back here looking at this. It's this. It's this line, this cross in the middle that's confusing me. I'm my pages aren't lining up. So, our primary goal the is to make the comprehensive plan

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the city's long range policy plan. So, policy the long range policy and the ULDC the UN unified land development code the city's regulatory tool. Uh this is consistent throughout the entire nation. Most states have or require a

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comprehensive plan or general plan in some states and other you know so they they require cities, counties any these jurisdictions to create a comprehensive plan that is our highle goal. So future land use

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categories, maximum density and intensities, growth, infrastructure compatibility, annexation and environmental policies. That is the purpose of the comprehensive plan. When I was working in Utah, uh they added

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they added a requirement to do a resource portion of the general plan or comprehensive plan the state did. And so all these all the state all the cities and counties were racing to get that done because there was a deadline and

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there was funding and you know all all sorts of stuff. But it it taught me that going through that process it taught me how imperative is to have those long range policies. Uh we are looking at making a decision regarding AI and data

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centers. you have a moratorum now and and now is the time to put those those wheels into action to make those changes in our code to ensure that we have those and reserve those preserve those resources for the city and the residents. Uh I've visited data centers

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and we're going to probably get into that a little bit more. Um metadata in Eagle Mountain, Utah, huge facility, incredible. If you ever get an opportunity to to visit an AI center or data center, it is very fascinating. But

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I also come from a background where my husband's public works and so understanding the resources that it takes to um run those data centers is enormous and and I believe you have picked up on that and have got on that

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bag bandwagon. So we're going to discuss that. That's the whole purpose of comprehensive plans. But how do we facilitate that? So going to the next thing is the ULBC and an official zoning map. Now we don't have to go through um we do have to do an amendment to the

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comprehensive plan because the comprehensive plan does state that the ULDC or the the future land use map is our land use district's map. It's one and the same. It's a single layer. So that

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can be very confusing because you have future land use categories where there it's maximum densities, intensities, all of those types of things. And then you have regulatory districts and we've been running that way. Um Vicki's been doing a phenomenal

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job. She's been here for what 10 years and you know but as we're going through it and things have changed and so now we have this patchwork of code a patchwork of the comprehensive plan and we need to outline those procedures and

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requirements clearer again we need to clarify we need to align the two documents I think that's the intent in the beginning and it worked in the beginning to have that single layer map um But again, we need that distinction

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because it helps say, okay, and we can keep it the same. That's that's one thing to understand. We can keep the land use districts, the names the same as what's in the in the comprehensive plan, but we need to call them zoning districts. That it just

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helps separate those two documents, but it still keeps them aligned. it still keeps it it modernizes it and it clarifies the language so much better. Uh dimensional st so underneath all of these zones is zoning districts and

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permitted uses and then dimensional standards and review procedures parking landscape buffers compatibility and site design. The ULDC and zoning map is implementation. it is to provide implementation and

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house staff is to apply that. So you know the the uldc says that the city manager is the director right and he can designate someone the planning director

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to facilitate that and implement that code and that's what we're doing. as I'm going through it though there's there's some real challenges with it. So um so recommended overall approach this

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is what I am recommending to you is it is a two-track process keeps the work moving while maintaining policy alignment so we're still keeping that alignment currently we are under a deadline it was 90 I think it was 90

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days we had or 180 180 days so six months you have already done two readings of the comprehensive plan, the most recent comprehensive plan update uh amendment and Rey is the one that

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facilitated that under his scope. He was to do the analysis and provide us with the data and all of that needed to do that. One thing that we missed when we submitted it to the state in the the first time or maybe first or second time it came back a couple times is a map

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series. That map series includes all of our future land use map, environmental flood, wetlands. I mean, there's a series of maps and I have Ashton I have Bay County working on that. That should be updated. I was hoping we'd get it

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this week. you said last week. So, I I'm waiting on that um so that we can bring that back to you for a second an official second reading and get it back to the state before the end of October. So, my goal is to have it to you by the

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first meeting in August um pending those maps are correct. um I will have Ry help me make sure those maps are correct and that it aligns with the data that he provided to create those maps. So he um

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gave all the tools to Bay County to help us get those maps because Bay County is our GIS administrator. So that work is already underway. So we are trying to keep current with what's going on. Another another thing to add

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to that which I didn't put it in the slideshow is that um we have we have sections in the uldc that need to be updated to be lawful under the state legislation that came down two

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years ago. One of that is that prel pre preliminary plat final plat any kind of plat does no longer comes to the city the planning commission or city council for decision that is to be staff level

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approval. So essentially the city manager who has designated me to be that deciding authority. Um, which is fine because that means that I'm going to take and I we I've started creating it a

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checklist of what is in the requirements of the ULDC. It's an administrative process, not a legislative process. Um, so and that's essentially what the state is asking is that those plats get reviewed at staff level. It takes it off

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your plate. Um, so long as it meets all of the criteria of the ULBC, it should get approved. Um there has to be something um something wrong with it that is

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in regard to the health, safety and welfare of the residents if there's something that the reason why it can't be approved. So it could be environmental it but there has to be substantial evidence. I want I want you to remember that there has to be in

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order to deny an application that is has a set of regulations under the uldc. You have to have um evidence substantial evidence proving

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that it does not meet the ULDC regulations. >> When when Go ahead. I'm just um when you're talking about the plots and you're talking about someone wants to build on it and make sure.

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>> So what it is is a plat is the recorded document that creates a meets and bounds boundary line a legal description of a lot or parcel um

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that has standards. So it's so preliminary plat and final plat for say for example a subdivision of 200 homes that has to be platted. It has to be drawn out. It has to show you know what roads or what property is going to be

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dedicated to the city and it has to meet all of the engineering requirements. It has to meet all of the requirements of our technical standards manual um infrastructure. It has to meet all of those things. there is a list a laundry

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list of requirements that that plat that application has to go through in order for it to get approved. So yes, it is it is what is created in order for a developer to sell a lot to

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[clears throat] build a home. >> Does that make sense? I remember I remember Amanda chasing us down after meetings that we had to sign the plat when we put a new a new plat revised a plat and she used to come at us with big

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map when we used to take the sharp and sign it or not but we did that several times at meetings >> so that that is still going to happen somebody so the way it is there this I believe the man the mayor will still

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have to sign. Um, he signs the minor subdivisions. Um, I'll have to check the DC on that. Vicki, you may know on a plat subdivision plat, the mayor is required to sign it, right? I believe that's a signature block. That's pretty standard.

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>> Oh, they may. >> So, that's coming down from the state. >> That's coming down from the state. >> So, but development still development order will still come to Yeah. Well, this so well, let me let me explain that a little bit better because see that

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where that's where it creates a little bit of confusion. A plat prelim final minor subdivision is a development order, >> but it doesn't have to follow concurrency regulation. And so there's so again you're

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the development order is going to be more of a site plan. Um it's going to be uh um another so development orders it is a development order but certain

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development orders are not required to come before you. Now, site plans, yes, I've seen it in I' it's gone back and forth in so many city cities that I've seen where site plans are are just go to planning commission. Um, and they're the

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land use authority, they're the deciding body. Uh, I've seen it to where staff is the deciding body. Um, and then I've seen it go back to the commissioner, city council. So, it's gone back and forth in many jurisdictions. it really

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fluctuates with the turnover in with with politics with your with your offices. So, you know, this this body right here can be completely different in four years. >> And that group may say, "Oh, I want to

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see site plans. I don't want to I want to see what's going on in the city." And that's that's fine. But you have to remember you have if you you it has to follow the uldc and me as staff that's what we are

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required to do is to make sure it meets all those it checks all those boxes and then we present it to you or to the planning commission who then makes a recommendation to you to decide if it's it's approved. So um site those are the

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type of things commissioner war that will still come to you. We aren't we don't have any desire to change that right now. We're going to do little bits at a time. >> I have a question. Yes. >> Um like situation we had

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>> a few months back where the whole >> the group in Southport wanted to build all those breeze. >> I don't remember. >> I'm talking about mobile homes and all that going to do.

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Now, now they went through and and got the >> permission from somebody to do that. Then all of a sudden, they didn't have then they came before the commission at a commission meeting >> and now they're still loading dirt in

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there and everything. And I thought we said no. >> I've I've asked for that to be enforced so because they should not be doing that. Um they do not have a construction documents. So what you have what you have done is you have approved a

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development order for a land use >> first time was town homes >> duplexes right duplexes that's what was approved >> um those type of orders will come before you but then they have to go through the platting process

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they still have to create a subdivision >> it it doesn't stop at that order basically you're saying so it they changed it recently the recent application was to change it to mobile homes a mobile home park it went through

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staff and it got you know recommended for approval to the planning commission planning commission had some questions on it so this is this is where uh it really comes down to understanding the process the the way you know your rule

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Robert I say Robert's rules of order right? As a governing body, how are you supposed to make those motions? And I think there was some confusion and the planning commission uh just there was some confusion on what was being

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approved. Some wanted to deny it and some didn't. Somehow the majority didn't said to just approve it and the minority said no. And but somehow it got mixed up to where it the negative

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recommendation came before you. >> And so um another thing is is that negative recommendation anytime you make a recommendation or the planning commission makes a recommendation they need to provide reasons why the findings

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as to why they're making that re negative recommendation. that is just Robert's rules of order or even the state state rules you need because it needs to how are you going to defend it if you don't right so you say you have stepped in on that project

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>> um right now it's out of our hands Chris I you probably could speak to that is notified about them filling in the ditch >> so um so there's other issues with that too let me kind of finish expl

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explaining this. So when you make a decision on if whenever you make a decision that's negative or deny when you deny an application you need to make sure and mayor this goes to you know this is something you have to watch as well but everybody should be watching

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this when you make a motion to deny an application you need to provide the findings as to why that why you're motioning making that motion. This is where planning [clears throat] and working our plan is so important because

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compatibility is key. Also, if we establish overlays, >> right? >> If you want something to be an enterprise or a business or a historic overlay, a trailer park or mobile home park wouldn't necessarily fit into that.

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It would be congruent, right? So, this is where this is all so critically important. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the that's my job as staff is to provide you with all of the information so you can make the correct educated guess based off of the information that has been

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gathered by the applicant, by the professional engineers, by the flood plane manager, by all of you know you have a staff that that is here to provide you with all of that information. Now, when you get to that

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decision and you um make a denial that it has to be substantial evidence as to why you're making that denial, why you're denying that application and that's something where we failed to do that with the brave babe breeze. There wasn't any findings as to why you were

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denying it. And so that creates um more legal problems than anything. Um but just keep that in mind. And I'm here to help help you remember that. Chris is here to help you remember that. Attorney is here to help you remember that.

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>> It's not it's not just on you. It's on all of us as staff to help you do that. And sometimes we get going in meetings and it's crazy. >> And so it can be something that we neglect to >> to remind each other of.

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>> Let's have a separate sidebar on that at some point. Um because I remember distinctly there were safety issues, there were public works issues, there were lots of issues, >> right? There were, but they weren't stated in the motion.

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>> So that's we'll leave the bay breeze alone. We have a court hearing on that one Tuesday, but we'll discuss that one later outside of this workshop. >> Is that the one we were talking about? >> That is the one we're talking about. >> What I thought we should talk about. So

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yeah, that that's a separate issue. But again, just to understand some part of that role in making those motions is to back it up, have have the information. If you don't know the information, ask staff to help you get

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that information to answer those questions so that you are fully understanding what's going on. Um, just to move on. So I got caught up in current comp plans. So we my my recommendation is to hire a

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consultant to do the comprehensive update. Now this is not just a few codes, a few pages or just to keep up with the the state requirements that we need to update data every 5 years. Um this is a major overhaul and that is to

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again modernize it, bring it up to current planning standards or development standards. Um that is across the board. That's with every element of the comprehensive plan. if we need to look

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at or analyze um I'm just going to this is not something we need to really do but the land land use districts or the land use map um and say okay there's there's low density residential there's medium density residential do we need to

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look at adding another one I'm not saying that this is just a purely an example um do we need to add additional land uses do we need to take some away um but again remember this is high level and you can make it general like commercial and then in the ULDC you

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could potentially break it down. That's the the that's the beautiful thing about having a comprehensive plan and a zoning map. So that's my recommendation is to hire a consultant to lead that. Uh but

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we have to work together on that because with the update for the comprehensive plan staff will be leading smaller sections of the uldc to get updated and the reason so more focused

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as commissioner peoples said chapter or topic by topic chapter by chapter um there you know I get I get into the uldc is when I first started I started at the beginning and started reading through it. I'm like, I I was a squirrel. I was

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going to this. And that's what happens. And I'll show you that in here in a second. That's what happens is when we start addressing one, it ends up that we have to address five other sections in the code because it it crosses over and it points to different

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sections in the code. For example, the next uldc update that you'll see, Amy has already started the ordinance on that is to do this plat, you know, to bring it up to state legislation standards, but she's yesterday or not

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yesterday, the day before when we talked, um, she's having to create two additional land ordinances because it affects two other areas in the ULDC. So that one and it and it's actually

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probably more as we're getting into it. So just updating that now we're having to address it in other areas of the code. And so you'll see three or four ordinances at the time of that legislative update. So the reason I want

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to do it by a focus by focused smaller amendments is to help you get eyes on it. So when you are making a decision, you'll remember, hey, didn't we just do a an amendment on that? You'll remember those sections a lot more and it will

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help you make your decisions better. That's my whole intent. I've seen how that has hap how that works in other jurisdictions. I've seen it to where people don't want to get, you know, they just they just want to be there to make the decision. And then I've seen it where they get involved and when they

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see those smaller sections, it's easier for them to recognize um those details. And then adoption and ongoing updates. Um I've already created a spreadsheet that um staff has to add, you know, it is it

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is by is it bylaws that says that the plan it's in the ULDC will make recommendations to staff for updates to the ULDC and the comprehensive plan. Uh so things but you're not in it every day, right? You're not working in the

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code every day. So, I've created a worksheet um that I've shared with staff that we can add. Hey, this section needs to be looked at. That's something we can bring back to you and explain, hey, we have this these inconsistencies in the

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ULDC. We need to address them. Would you like us to do an amendment? And then we can work on getting an amendment. Um it helps you be more involved with with those updates. But a code should always be evolving. It should never be

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stagnant. Uh that's what's happening is, you know, it's it's hard when you have not very much staff and you have a 185 page ULBC. It's hard and applications coming in, natural disasters happening. You have a

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lot on your plate as staff. And so keeping those up to date can be difficult. But I think if we're all on page with it, we can keep those those things going. >> Long term, how frequent would you recommend? Do we look at

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>> updating, maintaining? I mean, obviously there's all things AI dat. But on a general schedule or cycle, would you recommend an annual look, an every other year look, a 5year look? >> What do you recommend?

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>> I'm looking at it every day. That's the whole purpose of my of the spreadsheet that I've created. Chris may be looking at it. Um, legal. We'll have a discussion in city commission. Um, and you've made you've made recommendations

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already. Commissioner Peoples has. I think Commissioner War has. You've already you're you're seeing it. So, you're making those to us, but as staff, we're going through it and we're saying, "Oh, hey, for and I'll show you an example here in a second." So, it's a

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continuous thing. I don't I wouldn't say, you know, we need to do a major overhaul on it annually or take a deep dive into it annually. Staff is deep diving in it every day because we get phone calls and we are having to interpret that code um and give

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information to people. >> So, you see this being long-term a living document for us. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. And that keeps code evolving. That keeps cities up to date. It keeps it modern. It keeps it aligned with your comprehensive plan. So going

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going to your point when you know how often do we look a deep dive into the ULDC? Well, we should be doing that on a constant basis, but the state requires us to update data and have data and analysis map series and all of that in

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the comprehensive plan. Five years and then every 10 years should be a major update. Ray, is that right? the state. I'm I'm want to make sure I'm correct on that. >> Oh, there you go. So, even more time.

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You have more time. >> So, you did it used to be five years. And it's hard to do because sometimes some of those updates take a year, sometimes more to do. when I did a major up comprehensive update um in a little

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county that I worked in um it took us three years to do that that major update and a lot of it it goes back to elected officials changed um staff changed we had to hire a consultant to help us

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finish it you know things happen and so I you know that's probably smart but you have to remember we have our hands in the ULBC. If something doesn't align, it doesn't mean we can't address it in a in an amendment. So, um,

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which we might have to do because hiring a consultant right now might be not in the budget, but we can possibly do smaller updates to the comprehensive plan as we're updating the ULBC. >> That was going to be my next question. What uh kind of financial

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>> Yeah. >> burden is this going to add on us? I mean consultants and attorneys and >> so it's >> do we have the idea? >> Our last estimate was around 200,000 and the numbers that you saw yesterday do not have that in there.

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>> Yeah. So so it it can be a pricey endeavor and you know but how do we get along in the interimm? It's it's going to be we we're not going to stop. We're going to we're going to start updating the but how do we make it aligned? So for example

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um the comprehensive plan versus you know the future land use map versus zoning. So we need to separate the long range plan land use plan policy from the lo z zoning regulation. >> Having that distinction will help you

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significantly understand the regulatory processes that's in our code. >> They're talking about the zoning. Sorry, I probably should ask this out loud. >> So, [clears throat] the 200,000 we talked about earlier, I thought that was just if we went to a zoning. >> It was the the 200,000 is an estimate.

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It may be a little less, but it's going to be every bit of 150 to 200 grand. >> All right. >> It's okay. Uh again, we we will have to address that separately so that we can keep moving forward. Uh but we we need

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to make that separation. And I was on the fence. I was like, "Oh, we can just keep going." But as I put my hands in it and started looking at the comprehensive plan and the future land use or the future land use map and the land use districts or zoning

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um calling it what it is is needed. Some people get hung up on that. Um I'm happy to talk to whoever in the public has questions of that. So, if you get residents that don't understand or want to, you know, don't like this

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recommendation, please send them my way. I'm happy to have a a candid conversation with what's the difference and hopefully help them understand a little bit better. Um, a map series and data. So, f updating the future land use

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map. Um and then your CRA, your um municipal service area hazards infrastructure public that's been done with this last amendment. Uh and even the options for the sewer plant to be

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either rehabbed or moved, that was in this last update. So So we're we're okay there. Um, but as far as other things like the zoning map and separating that, that will need to be a comprehensive plan update, but it may be small enough

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that we can handle it as staff. So, it it may be able to save some of that some of that money. So, infrastructure um levels of service and capital improvements, that's what the comprehensive plan outlines as well. TND

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and overlays. This is another one that is highly confusing. Um, it needs to be rewritten for clarity. It needs to include master plan maps and administrative exceptions. The way that it's set up now is very convoluted and

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very confusing. So, going into the TND in, you know, and trying to apply the standards, I'm not only applying and and this is with every application. We look at the comprehensive plan and the zoning map or the zoning code ULDC. We need to

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make sure that it meets both. Um but the TND has you know has some confliction there. So high use high resource uses this is your data centers. So I wanted to make sure that we put in high resource uses so that it encapsulates

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all of those type of uses not just AI data centers. Does that make sense? So these are the comprehensive plan priorities, annexation and compatibility. So support voluntary annexation as you had that re resolution

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recently um so that we can help get those areas um annexed into the city. Redevelopment that's another issue um that we need to really take a look at. Buffers, transitions, adjacency protections, etc.

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Um the uldc strategy is the update the code in smaller manageable sections rather than one large rewrite. Immediate priorities is the like I said the state legislative updates the moratorum on data centers high resource demand use

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regulations which really encompasses that AI land use districts to zoning districts official zoning map known unclear outdated or difficult sections those are the immediate priorities. So those are the things that we're going to

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attack first. We can also do that with smaller portions of the comprehensive plan priorities. Um the structural priorities of the zoning district standards and use table that needs to be so we already have that. Don't think that we're having to create something

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new. um there it's there but it could be better and it could be updated and modernized um so that it aligns with um the intent of not only other sections within the ULBC but also the comprehensive plan um

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and it helps to apply these standards to your development orders, site plan and plat procedures. We need to clean that up because there's so many things that are different and um like we found the other day minor subdivisions the we've

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just been approving them and as B and and it's all checked off everything's checked off but I was reading in the code and it says that the TRC is the deciding authority for minor subdivisions. We didn't know that. And so that's something that we we had our

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first TND, you know, our first um TRC for a minor subdivision. >> What's a TRC? >> A TR, sorry, technical review committee. So the technical >> basic planning commission. >> Um no, it is the technical review committee is just staff and it's our

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infrastructure director. Um it is our water and or utilities. It is fire, it's public safety, it's planning, um >> internal committee basically >> attorneys. Yes, it's all internal. Um and so we had a good discussion and this

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minor subdivision, you know, um deputy chief um Envinger made a recommendation about secondary accesses and that was became a condition of approval. So that's exact that's the exact wording in the ULDC is that the technical review

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committee shall motion or approve approve with conditions or deny >> or continue. So it's it states that but that's pretty much the only place that it really outlines

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anything like that in the ULDC. >> Do they have a a time constraint to do that? I mean, when a resident comes, you can take as long as you want to get back to them. >> No, I think the state has come down. Right's going to have to be my

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legislative because I don't know all of them yet. Did the state put a timeline on applications for planning for planning and development as far as h how long staff city can take to review it?

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>> Update that. Yes, that's >> I think it's >> what is it now? Do we know >> 14 to 30 days? >> Oh wow. So building so building is processes are in our building permit processes is in the ULDC that actually

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has to be updated because uh from the time that we take money for a building permit they have is it 5 days 5 to 10 days to review and sub and approve a building permit or it automatically gets

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approved. That's a legislative update. >> Okay. >> And that's and that's not in our code right now. that's not in the ULDC. We're practicing it because it's law. Um, and Tyson's done a fantastic job and getting the building department up to snuff on

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that. Another thing that we've changed that that um it's just because I've done it in both jurisdictions that I've worked with and I've done I've not done it in one um and then we finally got them to let us do that is um planning

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reviewing building permits. So building permits have a land they are being built on land. What are the reg are they are those building permits, residential homes, commercial, whatever they are, are they following the ULDC standards,

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setbacks, height, um impervious surface coverage, um lot coverage, you know, all of those things need to be checked and and it was being left up to plan or to building to do that and a lot of things had gotten missed. And so we're just

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moving forward. So, planning will now sign off on those to make sure that they meet all of those standards. Um, but that's not in our ULDC. >> Okay. Do you do we all I I see I feel like all I'm talking about is money, but uh when somebody comes to us for a

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permit, how do you decide what to charge them? >> Um, we have a fee schedule. >> So, we have an approved fee schedule by the by PL city commission that has an outline. Now a lot of those so state of Florida within any state you we cannot

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make money on those applications right you you understand that a lot of those fees are outdated and are not covering the costs of just staff time um minor subdivision for example is a fee that we

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need to address which we can in this next you know revision of the fee schedule um but we have to have I'm sorry >> what do we charge Now, >> right now we charge $100. >> Oh. >> And you know what a minor subdivision is? It's this division of one parcel

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into two. That's what our ULDC is. It can just go to two. And um we charge $100. But Vicki spends a good 10 hours on it. >> That $100 does not even cover her time. Then we have water and sewer availability done by the utilities

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department, which is a good amount of time. So we're not even covering our costs. So, that's something we can address at another time. I mean, we're not going to, you know, we can't address that. It's on our list. Um, but again, you know, even our pre-application or,

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you know, the we came across. So, our minor subdivision, this was kind of funny, our M and and it's just this this just goes to prove how much of a patchwork our ULVC is and how much how important it is that we need to change

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it um for the better. We need to modernize it. we need to align and we need to clarify and those are the things that we need to do. So we found that a change of use is permit is required by the ULBC in section 10 and we've never

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done one ever. And so but how do we catch those? The only way we can catch those is if somebody comes in or code enforcement sees something or building they get a building permit and it's a change of use. Um, but they hadn't even been catching that and they didn't know

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that in the ULDC that it needed a change of use permit. We caught one the other day because they required a build business license, but it was something that was going into a building that was a previous another use that doesn't match what the uses they're doing now. So, you know, there's those kind of

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discrepancies in the code. So, the fee to to do a change of use permit $1,250. Now, that's pretty high, but again, you're looking at buildings fees because Tyson has to do a new certificate of

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occupancy if there the change includes increase in parking or food or other things like that. So, do you see there's we have to apply that time, but those are the things that we need to take a look at. You know, storm drain,

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environmental annexation, and appeals. All of those things come into play in the structural priorities that we need to um better um outline our ULDC. >> I think too it has a lot to do with Lynhaven versus Panama City. Yes. And

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surrounding areas because I hear a lot about that. >> Yeah. >> Uh you guys charge so much more than, you know, >> Panama City. We're going to move down two blocks. >> Yeah. you know, just seeing how the city limits to save what they make it sound

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like thousands. >> Yeah. So, um this became an issue with the leagues of cities and towns in Utah and um our city manager um from Saratoga Springs actually took a huge interest in this. Um he's a data guy, but he had all

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of us there was nine planners and um five engineers, four engineers, five engineers. um six engineers, sorry, six engineers and we all touched an application, but that was the argument. Developers and

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residents, well, your fees are too high. Your fees are too high. So, we what he has done is he has required that staff to document every bit minute of our time for each application of how long we

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spent on it. So, he's collected this data for over two years. So, it it really does it will help in fee schedules >> um and and being able to better align those. >> And and I've looked, you know, we approve the fee schedule every year. And I I I did a deep dive on this a while

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back. And I'm not saying Lin Haven's the cheapest. Not one of my point here is, but there's a lot of things. It's not an apple toapple comparison cuz some things include other things where other cities they have it all separated out, >> right? So when people say it's more

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expensive, >> that's not always the truth. >> Absolutely. >> And so there's probably areas where Linhaven's cheaper and then there's probably areas where the other ones are cheaper. So >> but then at the very end, that very end Whoops. That very end invoice or that very, you know, then it could very well

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be um apples to apples. >> So um so yeah. So moving on. So land use designation versus zoning district. I want to explain this. Do does any of you do you all understand the difference between the two? Does that make sense?

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Do you have questions, Judy, or sorry, Commissioner Tinder? >> I was reading, but >> Okay, >> so both are needed, but both they serve different purposes. Just so the com like we said I'm I'm feel like I'm a broken record here but um the broad policy direction long range vision for an area

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um general categories and intensities growth compatibility infrastructure um for an example mixed use or commercial future land uses the policy map then we move over to the official zoning map the

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official zoning code the detailed um the detailed rules for the property so specific permitted and conditional uses, setbacks, height, lot size, density, impervious surface, storm water, parking, landscaping buffer, all of

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those examples. Zoning determines what can be built or operated today. And so that's where a lot of that confusion comes from. >> I want to ask a question. Um, and he might be the only one to know the answer. >> Ben,

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>> Ben, >> wait. Wait, you didn't escape. >> I just want to ask this one question about the Florida Avenue >> uh update and all that. >> I see here it says uh setbacks and height and all of that.

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>> Um with the plans that we have set in motion for Florida Avenue, do we meet all them? The setbacks and the height of the building restrictions and all that. I I'm hearing tales and I can't substantiate it just with gossip. I'm sure >> answers.

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>> Okay. All right. Um, >> our improvements apply to the right of way. We're not dealing with setbacks in the right way. The setbacks bel um pertain to properties, >> right? >> So, we're talking about we're talking about apples. You're talking about oranges.

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>> Okay. So, it's two different things because I've been told that right next to Slice House in that empty lot is going a three-story building with retail, offices, and apartment. Nothing that has nothing to do with this. It was an architectural rendering kind of like

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an idea, but this is it's not a city property. So, we're not >> we're not building anything on it. >> Okay. But as far as licensing and all that, >> yes, it goes through the it goes through our process. So, it comes in as an application. Somebody want that napkin

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drawing >> that somebody has shown you, >> they will have to apply for it. So my my rule of thumb is is it's not I mean it's not here unless it has an application. Okay. >> And and that should be our rule of thumb

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because a lot of people a lot of businesses they don't want people to know they're coming into town. >> Um but and we have to honor that. Um but one because it is a public application. You know, we can have preliminary talks

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all day long, but ethically, it's not right for us to say, "Hey, this is coming when we don't have an actual application." >> Okay? >> So, we can look at napkin drawings all day long, but until they've actually submitted that napkin drawing per the

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standards that we have outlined in our ULDC, >> it's it's not coming in. >> So, just to >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Do you have >> I do. >> Okay. >> I know what I'll do. >> Okay. [laughter]

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So, um, so it's our regulatory map. Simple way to explain it. The comprehensive plan says what the area should become. Zoning says what can be built, operated, and reviewed on a specific property.

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Um, it goes also to, hey, so and so is building a big huge pole barn on my propert on their property and I can't see my view. If they meet the ULDC standards, it's legal.

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So, just just remember that, you know, but if they don't, then we can take a look at it. But if those applications come in and they are they're doing their due diligence and they're following our code, that's that's the whole purpose of our

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ULDC zoning districts. So it just helps put them in the right boxes and standards in the right boxes. So why the city needs both? So um one map and one set of district names are doing

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two jobs. Long range planning, long range policy and zoning style regulation. Commer example commercial area future land use can say identify as commercial an area is intended that it can be used for business activity. The

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zoning could distinguish neighborhood scale retail so from higher intensity commercial uses with different buffering access parking and design standards. So you can we have the commercial. You can go in and break that down. You're

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welcome to. We can leave it as it is. It's it gives you the option um to do that, but it also allows you to create, you know, more regulation for those higher intense commercial uses. Um example two, mixed use can support a

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blend of residential, commercial, civic, and employment uses. Um, zoning could define where the area functions as downtown style mixeduse off small office retail residential transition or TND style or waterfront.

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Um, we had a zone that was poorly written until we had to redo the whole thing. And I was I was lucky enough to be the guinea pig planner to help a developer put it through was was so much fun. four-year process um to get that

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development going and they still haven't put a shovel in the ground. >> Gina, this is [clears throat] one area where I see where we really could collaborate between the commission, you and your team, um our planning committee >> where [clears throat] we all come together and we come up with overlays,

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zones where >> I I would say zones. I would steer away from overlays um just because it it feels too um temporary. An overlay does whereas and

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and people will can argue with me. There may be others that disagree with that. Um if you're going to if you're going to put a bunch of regulations, I mean it's it's what has been done. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. Um, I see, you

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know, like the CRA. The CRA is a good overlay. Overlays have their purpose, but if we're going to create an overlay that is going to govern the distance between drive-throughs, that's something that can be regulated within our zoning

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code. So, within the the those standards can be outlined. We don't need an overlay for it. We just need to put it in our code. what I'm talking about and fair point um is more of a as we're trying to develop long term strategically we want to retain this

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area's unique historical commitment and architecture and you know and have distinct historical pieces of Linhaven that we can recognize and figure out how to make them modern while preserving our past and and having that balance. Right.

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>> Absolutely. So we have the 911 plat overlay. um we have specific standards for that where it gets confusing and yes I think we can collaborate from all aspects and that's the reason I want to do the ulvc in smaller sections so we

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can sit down at the table and have a [clears throat] discussion between all parties bring in staff how is it going to affect storm drain if we put this zone in place how is it going to affect you know we need to look into our big crystal ball to address it so that we

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are looking 10 15 20 years down the road are we going to be able to meet that our our requirements and align with our ulb our comprehensive plan that is act absolutely yes we need to sit down and collaborate and we can create those

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that's the whole purpose of doing it in smaller sections is we can go in and say okay we have the commercial zone and zoning district and you want to create a neighborhood hood commercial. What are the standards in neighborhood

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commercial? It's a walkable community. You want mom and pop shops, boardwalks. you want that's the kind of you know that feel you want to preserve that waterfront or um not that Glen Haven has much waterfront left but um it it gives

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you the option to I mean there are still bayus there's still you know capabilities there but um it gives you the option to outline those regulations a little bit better to where they're more consistent to your goals as preserving the historical

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intent of vision of our city, right? It's a historical vision. This is we don't want to lose that. I I love the history of Linhaven and I think it's imperative that we we do preserve that. Do we have we have the 1911 plat that's

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helping with that? We have the CRA, but do we have more in our code? I can't give you that answer right now. Vicki may be able to answer that, but you know, what other historic preservation regulations do we have? I don't I don't

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know of any. Um but maybe the CRA has some of that. You know, the CRA is a good example of the kind of regulation it sounds like you're wanting to put down. Um but where where does that go? If you do if you do that um the way that

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it is now, it's that single layer. And so I some of the comprehensive plan kind of bleeds over to the ULDC. So it it just becomes this mishmash and in my opinion from a a planning perspective from

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applying zoning code or the ULDC and the comprehensive plan there can be confusion. The TND is another example of that. Lord >> um it's very confusing. So um because there's regulation written into the comprehensive plan in the in the TND.

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>> We had a TND at Mil Bayou and then it got variance to death. It's not even a TND anymore. Yeah, there's there's a Yeah, it's an overlay. >> I have a question about uh about you were just talking about historic our historic plat and different plat.

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>> Did we or did we not? I remember signing something after we after we did we create a plat for Marina Island yet or No, >> we have a plat for Marina Island. I don't >> No, not a plat. Just the agreement. >> Yeah.

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>> Overlays. >> It's just the developer agreement. velopment agreement >> development agreement right >> so we will have to create a I mean that's as as as we've been told that is in the 1911 plant is is it not >> it it is

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>> yes so we would have to if they're going to do that extreme amount of development we're going to have to subplot that or something at some point if by new guidelines I think that was established years ago in the original um but I'd have to go back and get the history on it

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>> I haven't dove into that one [laughter] I'm going to tell you that's going to involve, you know, I mean, >> we're basically building infrastructure and everything to it at it. So it would it would it would have to >> and right now it would follow if it's not outlined in the development

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agreement it would follow our current current standards which the 1911 plat doesn't really give a lot of or 1911 plat overlay district does not give very much detail like the CRA has

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architectural standards thec does not define that in the 1911 plat it talks about lot splitting We need to establish that sooner than later. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so if there is is Marine Island an I don't think Marine Island's not an overlay. It's just a development agreement.

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>> So, you know, it I I'd have to look at the development agreement. But yeah, you can definitely say, hey, this is the you don't want to put Marina Island as a as a zone, but you can say this is an industrial zone, and

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these are the these are the regulations we want in there. Um, so we have, you know, we have some, but is it what you're after? Will the marine will Marine Island do come out to be what you're imagining it to be with the

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standards that we have currently? That's that's what we have how we have to look at it. So if that's something you want staff to look at, then that's what something we need to put on my spreadsheet and prioritize it so that we get working on it. So that's that's the whole point of that. So if you have

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those say, "Hey, I need to look at this." We'll work with Chris and make sure that we're all on the same page and get that going however it needs to be. So um just to, you know, benefit of separating them, clearer

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public information, transparency, transparency, transparency, transparency, easier staff administration, better review standards, and a more defensible code. I can't I mean that modernization alignment and clarification

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is imperative to create a more defensible code and that is provides us with better review standards. You know sometimes we're floundering saying well does this apply? Does this you know it it can be very challenging to do

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that. So we have to go to city attorneys to get an a determination. And we have to I've sat down with Chris and Jennifer to okay what what do you think the interpretation of this is. So um you know it's it helps us outline that

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review standard. >> Is there a place that we can direct residents to go online to look up any of this? um as far as what's pending or I mean really an ordinance isn't pending.

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Yeah. Tell us but like for example if if they want to know what it costs to >> the fee schedule and as everything is online. >> It's online the fee schedule's online >> and that's how it's described schedule. >> Yes. Okay. >> Um planning and development fees are on

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there. Um it's a big document. We need to >> Yeah. We're number 81. >> On the fee schedule. >> That's the [laughter] easy way to do it. >> We're kind of towards the end. >> We We need to Yeah, it we need to whittle it down to where it's just the planning and development fees per what

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approved by that ordinance. >> Yes, we we do have a web page for planning. >> It's just we're we're working on it. We're a work in progress. [laughter] >> So, >> thank you. >> You're welcome. So, I wanted to give you an example really quick. We're almost

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we're almost to the end. Um, so what slide where what slide am I at here? Here we go. So I wanted to give you an example. This has come up recently. So we actually I actually had a resident asking um because he wants to

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build an accessory structure in his backyard. We have certain standards um that we are to follow. So I'm going through the code with them. So, I want you to see accessory structures. I've highlighted the the terms because this is what I want you to take a look at.

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This is copied straight from the code. Accessory structures should constitute a minimum investment. May not be used for human habitation. That's one key word. And be designed to have minimal flood pl flood damage

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potential. A you an accessory unit dwelling unit is defined as a separate complete housekeeping unit with a separate entrance kitchen sleeping and complete sanitary facilities which is an an attached or detached extension of an

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existing single family structure. Okay, we have these two definitions and this I'm giving you an example of what needs this is an actual update that needs to happen. Okay. So, oh, did I just Okay. Five section 50103

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accessory structures in residential land use districts. I think this is where it kind of got confusing. We have here that in the maximum rear yard coverage in lowdensity residential, they cannot go with an accessory

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structure because it says standards for accessory structures in residential districts 30%. So that structure cannot be 30% more than the in the rear. That's it's the maximum that's the maximum rear yard

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coverage. Okay. Then we go to section 50104 dwelling accessory accessory dwelling dwellings in land use land residential land use districts. So

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the question was what how big of a an poleburn shop can I build on my lot? And so we were going through all of these and I even got to this where it says an accessory dwelling says accessory

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dwelling shall not occupy more than 25% of the total livable floor area of the principal residential building. So, we got on that topic. But then it says, "And C, a freestanding accessory structure

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shall not exceed 1/2 the total square footage of the primary structure." Can you see the problem with that? This is under C. This is C under 50104. We've been using that as somewhat of a

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standard for accessory structures because it says accessory structures but it's under accessory dwellings. So these are the types of corrections that we need to make and we need to make this it it needs to be freestanding accessory

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accessory dwelling shall not exceed 1/2 the total square footage of the primary structure. Now we've already got the regulation to restrict how big a necessary structure can be

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but we are confusing it with this. So, so that you know I I gave you the conflicts what you know what those are rear setback you know including setbacks rear yard coverage height all of those you know are set for accessory

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structures and accessory dwellings but then we have that that conflict so it's things like that now you can see these are the types of things I'm going to bring you these small sections because it has to be singulatory is what

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Amy said an ordinance needs to be focused on one thing. It ends up being five different ordinances because it goes in all many so many different directions. So that's that's the reason. So how the two documents align again high resources and then we define those

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um definitions and permissions conditions standard conditional standards pro prohibition um prohibitions infrastructure impact all and so forth. um how staff would proceed. So a practical s sequence for the formal

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update process. So diagnostic review that's what um I've done Ray's done some of that matrix every goal objective and policy keep revise delete or relocate um mapping and data update future land use

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map series infrastructure hazards public facilities redevelopment analysis. Again that's recently been done. You'll see that here in the next couple meetings. Uh, and I can show you what those map series mean. Um, element review or

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sorry, element rewrite start with future land use, infrastructure, capital improvements, and transportation. Again, we may not need to address that too much. And then, um, ULDC schedule, pair policy updates with priority code amendments, and section bysection

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review. So, that's how we're going to work together with the up with the comprehensive update, but again, we're going to we're going to have to have a more in-depth conversation because of budget reasons, but I think we can come up with a plan to to help mitigate that. Um,

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direction request requested from the city commission. So the this is this workshop was intended to have that conversation um to confirm the path forward that you want staff to do um and prepare for the formal work to to go

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out. So the bottom line moving forward with a two-track modernization process consultant comprehensive plan update plus staffled section bysection ULDC update. Um I just want to confirm that direction modern major modernization

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rather than limited cleanup consultant scope and public engagement. Again we might have this is my overall scope that might have to be broken down. um priority priority uldc amendments and update schedule official zoning map and

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terminology transitions ongoing process to keep the code updated concurrent. So overall goal clearer more defensible and easier to use planning documents. That's what we're after. So I

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have a whole another slide that I could we could go over specific sections that need to be updated. I've got a dozen of them. We don't have to do that. We can have a open conversation. Shoot, hit me with your questions, concerns, ideas.

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I'm here to help answer those >> questions. >> Have any idea how long this process will take to actually update the entire comp plan? >> Um, it could take years. I I would I

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would hope that we can get a good handle on it. I my my fear of of doing I mean not only because of cost my fear of doing a uldc major overhaul is things get put in there that you don't know

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about because what happens is I mean and it's all in scope. It's all how much money you want to spend. Um, with a consultant uldc update, but you know, it could get missed. Things could get missed. I've seen it in

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the plans that I've had to dive into that something got put in there that was totally not what was supposed to be put in there according to the committee that was working on it. So, um, so there there can be I think doing it in smaller sections. Yeah, it may take a little bit

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longer. Maybe not. I mean, it's not it's not a hu it's not a 300page code, but those important things that you want addressed, let's address them. Let's put them on a priority list. >> So, do you foresee this going to the planning commission first before it

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comes to us? I I would like to see a workshop between the planning commission and the city commission first when we have a [clears throat] code amendment. Um we can bring several at the same time to that workshop and then we take it

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through the formal process the public hearing process per state code that goes to city planning commission gets noticed planning commission and then city commission first read and then second read. I don't know. Do you guys uh think this

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needs to be a priority or >> Yeah. >> Think anything worth doing rights, worth doing the first time. And uh there's no doubt you're the right lady for the job. >> Oh, thank you. I hope so. >> I hope I can do you proud. >> You are one heck of a professional spark

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plug. I will not say I will say that I'm not perfect and I will make some mistakes and I hope that I have Chris and Jennifer and Vicki and all of the staff to help keep me right. I mean CJ's even kept me straight. So I I am I will

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own up to my mistakes and try to do and do better the next time. So >> we already have policy that you can't make mistakes. There are mistakes. >> Yeah. I wish I wish I was. >> No, coming in with your background and a deep professional background, but also

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fresh eyes is important cuz we need that here. Um, this particular program was rather stagnant and it's a patchwork to your point. So, we want to get it up to speed. We want it to be effective. We want it to be impactful and we want it to be positive for our community. >> Absolutely.

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>> So, that's going to require a lot of heavy lifting and you are going to be the orchestrator. >> Yeah. Uh I I understand that I'm all game. I I think and I think too another aspect and this is just from my perspective. Um I think public input and public outreach

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is is imperative. We want our public we want our residents to understand the code. And so um I mean we're explaining it all the time. Sometimes it's it's hard to explain it. Um sometimes it's a visual process. Uh we have people come

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in all the time and sit down in our offices and we pull up the maps and we show them, hey, and we show them directly from the code. Um I encourage that. If you have a resident that has questions, please send them into us so that we can help them understand what

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what they're having problems with or what they want to do, anything like that. We can help them through the step-by-step process. That's the that's our role as staff. Um I truly believe in reaching out to the public. So making sure that the public is invited to those

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workshops. Um this one here I I mean we want to hear that commentary so that we are creating and updating modernizing aligning that code to be what the residents want it to be.

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Now we have to remember land use or or property rights. I'm a big proponent of property rights and a lot of people don't like land use codes because of that. Um, but in order to preserve your land use, your property rights and your

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property rights, we have to have these rules in order for everybody to enjoy their property the way that they want to do. And sometimes that may not be allowed because their neighbor didn't want it or you know and that's where it

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comes it it gets very difficult for you as a commission um for staff. It's hard when we have to tell somebody hey it's allowed for your neighbor to put that shop in. Um you know it's but we can at least hopefully cushion it a little bit

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by helping them understand the zoning regulation. So you said you need direction from the commission. So >> So that's what we're after. We're a I'm after direction from the city commission. I don't know Chris, does it need to be a resolution?

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>> No, just some discussion from the commission, but I would recommend that we do a couple public workshops as well. Um like Gina was saying, let's include the public and hey, what changes um does the public want to recommend towards what we're working on before we get too far down the road um of implementing

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changes? Um, but would like some direction from the commission on >> what all you all would like to see. >> I know it's going to be a shocker, but um, I think it needs to be a priority. Um, I've been wanting it to be a priority for quite some time, but I

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think we're at a point where this is kind of like the saying, um, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. >> Yep. >> And it's going to take some time. Um, so yeah, that's my position. I don't know if you need me to anything else

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from >> I'm all for making things easy and clear for the resident. I don't mind taking the calls from the residents, but all I do is get on the phone and call y'all, >> you know, and go, >> yeah, please call and ask those questions. I'm happy to help explain it.

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Come in and sit down with me. Um, Commissioner War has come and sat down with me. I've met with the mayor a little bit. You know, come and sit down with me. If you have specific questions or you have residents that are they don't want to talk to staff, they want to talk to you. That's okay. Um but

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bring them in with you. I'm happy to sit down and have a discussion. Um because I want more than anything for people to understand the public process because I I knew nothing. I I'm from a small town

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in southeastern Arizona where it was county. It was unincorporated. It was just a small 3,500 people city. My great greatgrandfather founded this the little town of St.

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David. And um we didn't have this. My dad was a backhoe driver his his whole career, most of his career. And he put septic things in all the time. And when I got my degree in land use and planning, him and I had some very candid

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conversations because he felt like he could do anything on his property that he wanted regardless. And I'm like, "Well, put up your walls because you have a junkyard out there." But, you know, even even with with um septic tanks for years, cities and counties

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weren't regulating septic tanks, and that's how my dad did things. I knew nothing about land use until I became a planning technician and then it totally I'm like so it makes so so much sense and I fell in love with the

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>> with the career. So I geek out on it put it that way. [laughter] So I'm happy to take conversations. The the thing I'm tired of is when we get a development order knowing that there was things that we could put in

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the comprehensive plan ULDC and we have no no other um authority but to accept the development order even though I don't like the development order and I disagree with it knowing that we could have established things in there uh

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prior to that that would have >> right >> prevented the things that have happened. >> So really it comes down to you don't like the standards in our ULDC. >> Yes. Like you were talking about it's it's not that in the past that it was ne necessarily done wrong when it was

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originally done but it things need to be revamped. It's like our charter, right? Our charter hadn't been revamped in years and years and years and then you try to do it and it makes it very very difficult. But once you get it up to a certain standard now it's just a matter of maintaining it. >> Absolutely. And so that's where we're at

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is it's been too many years where this hasn't been revamped. We need a total revamp of >> and there's code that's been changed and you know again it goes back to that patchwork but yeah it needs to be updated. It's not going to happen overnight. I will tell you that right now the public process and going through

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these workshops making sure that you're on the same page as the planning commission and and both of those bodies are on page with the direction staff is going. That's where we work out all the weeds. That's where we're pulling all

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the weeds out of the ulc. It's going to take some time. It's going to take some work and it's going to take some hard conversations, but that's the beauty of our democracy, right? That is I, you know, when when we had all of the

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national uproar about, you know, changing laws and and this is where it starts right here. It starts with these land use. Land use is a very or property rights is a very passionate subject

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people I and here in Florida everywhere it's not just anywhere everywhere property rights is a I mean people kill over it we've seen that throughout our history and as a nation and so we have to protect those rights the best the way

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that we can and the only way that we can do that is through the uldc Sam, Pat, do y'all have anything you want to add? >> Your horse. You're sick. >> I think uh I think what you've presented

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is great. I think um I think that given a clearer definition. Making the city defendable is a wonderful uh answer to exactly what the frustrations that Commissioner Ward just stated. Um,

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[snorts] I'm all set for turning you loose and letting you work at the budgetary constraints and guidelines of the city manager. So, that's my feelings. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> Well, I'll be the caboose and say I think you're spot on. I think you're the

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right professional for the job. >> We're glad you're here. >> Me, too. [clears throat] >> Get move here. >> This is this is a very big priority for our city. Um, and you need to let us know what you need from us when you need it. >> Okay? >> I'll also challenge you to We've got

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some great uh civic organizations. The Linhaven Historical Society, for example, >> you may find some others like the Rotary or other civic-minded organizations where we have folks that really want to contribute or have inputs or share or be

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part of the solution. And so we definitely need to seek out those collaborative opportunities, >> right? >> But you're here, kick it into Afterburner, and you just tell us what you need. >> Yep. That raises a an idea

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or the reason for a zoning district. You can create a historical district and that can be an overlay because you have various areas in the city that are historical and then you can set your guidelines for that. That's where we would definitely want the historical society to come in and help help create

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those guidelines because they know it, right? They're our historic. They know it better than I do. I'm I've been digging into it, but there's no way that I could ever um get to the level of some of these other folks that that really know the history of the area. >> We need to make sure you get linked up

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with them. >> Yep. Absolutely. Please. >> Well, three three of the five of the commissions here are veterans. I'm wondering if our consultant will give us a veteran discount services. >> Well, we have to put it out to

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everybody. So, Ray's going to have to woo you with his his his knowledge. >> We almost [clears throat] got a smile out of Ray for that one. [laughter] He's been a great resource since I mean we've talked a few times and he's given

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some great direction and and historical elements that he he knew of. So it's it's been great working with him and I'm sure I will call him on the regular. So >> ladies and gentlemen, any uh wrap up from the commission? And I want to make

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sure the floor everybody has a chance to ask questions, but does anybody have anything else from the dis? No. Amazing job. Thank you. Um, we'll open it up to the public. You guys have been great. I mean, we've got several of

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our dieh hard regulars here. Um, thank you for your patience and your observations this morning. Does anybody have any questions or comments? Mr. Snyder, come on up. I like your patriotic Hawaiian flare shirt.

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>> Um, I'll see Commissioner Warick's analogy about eating elephants one bite at a time and raise you with another one. Uh, what is the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. What's the second best time to plant a tree? >> Today. >> Right now. So I would uh challenge you to

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undertake this uh soberly, seriously uh lean on your experts um because this is a this is a a monumental undertaking. Um and it's one that given our financial constraints, this is an opportunity that we can use to make sure that Linhaven looks the way we want it to look and

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that we set a clear path for the folks that want to come in and build their businesses and build their homes. and make make sure that as folks because the growth is coming, right? Or it is growing and they've discovered the peninsula. It's, you know, it's almost

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full. They're headed north. >> And as it as the growth comes here, we need to we need to welcome it. We don't need to say no. We don't need to say, "Sorry, this isn't the place for you." But we need to make sure that as

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development and growth comes, that it looks like what not only Linhaven residents want it to look like, but it looks like the growth that's going to benefit us. That that benefits our neighborhoods, that benefits our business community, that benefits all of the things that

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that make Lin Haven what it is, a great place to raise a family. the place that I moved to when I was 7 years old, the place that I moved back to so that I could raise my family. So that would be my encouragement. >> I would make the argument that growth

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isn't coming, it's here. >> Well, there's more growth coming then. >> All right, that sounds good. >> All right, thank you. >> Your point's well taken, Jeff. And thank you, sir. >> Is this on I I I want to um kind of piggyback off

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of that. you know growth you're saying growth is [clears throat] here but we have we have a lot of infill development available. So we have these minor subdivisions happening which are creating additional lots which then you know uh is water and sewer there. We've

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had an example of where we have an old water line. So the water for one lot has to come two four two to 400 I can't remember how many feet about 200 feet. Um but the city, you know, that line is on

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the list. The city isn't able to do it. Sometimes it gets bumped from the list because something else takes priority. So, you know, those are the types of things that put constraints on development and and growth. But but yes, growth is growth is coming, but it's not

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at the rate that it will be that it was back when Lin Haven was first going. There is infill development. Michael wiped out some some structures which creates additional infill. And so, you

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know, that's something we have to take a look at and maybe, you know, that's where we help establish rules and regulations to help move that development along or to restrict it or whatever it is that the direction that

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you want to go. >> Anybody else this morning? Mr. Dewaller, come on up. Good morning. Well, I think you all know that uh you're not going to get a bigger proponent of uh doing some zoning upgrades than me. Um great to hear all of this. I love the presentation. Thank

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you. Um you know, I've been screaming this for four or five years, so I'm I'm more than happy to watch it finally happening. Um you know, we talk about a plan. We talk about how are we going to get this done? I'd like to see kind of a six-month plan, a two-year plan, a five-year plan

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to fully renovate this at the end of the five years. Um, you know, right now as a six-month plan, I'd like to see sort of an administrative, you know, here's what we can change to to effectively do what's going on right now. And then put

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some bumper guard rails in place so that you can say no to a few things. Um, and then, you know, 2 years get a large plan put in place so that we know where we're going over the next 5 years. And then 5 years we work out all the little minor things like how do we want to put trees

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in or how thick do roadways need to be and in neighborhoods and and you know all those minor details that are going on. Um, so some things I would like to see would be, you know, we have a lot of neighborhoods or, you know, things like

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that. looks like a checkerboard between unincorporated Linhaven and Panama City and it's it's you know everyone's kind of scattered around. I think you all know where I'm going with this. Um you need to be able to say no if one of your

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lots bumps up against some other jurisdiction's lot. If that other jurisdiction has policies in place that says no, you can't build something and you don't, you should have something in

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your repertoire to be able to say, okay, this is a non-ongruent adjacent land policy. It doesn't fit. Um, you're going to have a lot of that as you're growing. And so having little tools like that, being

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able to say, uh, no, you can't have a mobile home in a in a flood plane seems pretty simple. Those, but those little things, right, that you can do over the next 6 months are going to give you a lot of tools to be able to say, no, hey, we have a list of policies that

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we're working on over the next year. If you come to us with this commercial property or this industrial property, it is on our plan of changes and in six months it will not congruently match where we're going. So, we can put a

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six-month pause on your DU so that when we change the plans, you can now build this, but this is not going to be there because we know we're heading in those directions. Some of that might not work out legally and obviously you're going to have to go in place, but by putting small

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bumpers in place, we can get to that 2-year plan and then from that 2-year plan work out the minor details. So, that's kind of the 6 months that I would like to see is is some of those small things put in place administratively and policywise so that you can say no. Um,

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bringing up the the hazard use cases is a great example. Now we have phase one, phase two of that major um development that's going in on 26. That's going to take us to what 96% of our capacity on on sewage.

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Nothing else can be built. You should be able to say no to something that's going to make it so that everybody else gets a no. Um and and so I'm a libertarian. Um it's no secret. I'm registered. you can I I work with the state and you know um and and I

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piss a lot of libertarians off when I say this, but I do have a belief that if you want to be completely free, go live somewhere where you don't have neighbors, right? The the closer that your boundaries get to somebody else, the more likely you are going to

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infringe upon their rights. And if everybody in this city has a right to develop according to the state, then you building a 200 home facility shouldn't infringe on somebody else's right to want to build a commercial facility or

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apartments or something else like that because you've now taken it away from them. So, if we aren't going to put policies in place that you can either say no or say you need to fund new storm lines or new sewage lines or build out 26 so that the, you know, traffic that

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you are going to put onto that road that doesn't meet it, you know, you have to pay a portion of that impact. Now, I know they pay impact fees, but it is not even going to come close to the cost of building out the infrastructure to do some of that stuff, the town homes that have gone in, apartment complexes. Um,

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so for a six-month plan, if if if I had to say put something in place, put those guard rails in place. Um, the other thing that I would like to see before we get too into depth about, you know, building the small stuff is kind of a big picture thing. So like Mil Bayou is

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kind of its own neighborhood. The plat's its own neighborhood, you know, uh, Marina Bay, stuff like that are these own neighborhoods. let's create a big idea map and then have the actual residents of those areas go what matches these ideas these things and stuff like

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that and and get a vision board for what they want in their communities so that we can go to that focus and then deal with the the the deeper dive things. Um so if you had to ask me kind of what a road map would look like that's what I would like to see. >> Thank you Zach. Appreciate that. And

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Gina, to Zach's point, um I'm sure there's this is going to be a very reiterative process, but if there is some key lowhanging fruit and first wave, closest gator to the boat kind of updates that we need to make. >> Yeah, I can definitely put something together. I think that's a a great idea.

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It gives us, you know, it goes back to to Commissioner Warick's smart goals. We need a timeline. You know, we need that, okay, when are we going to finish this? and we can do some of that lowhanging fruit, those accessory structures, that type of thing, smaller things. Right

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now, we're focused on getting updated for legis with what the legislature has put down for the cities. Um, so we're going to update that. So, that's top priority. We need to come into compliance with the state. Um, and then we can start addressing some of these

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others. So, maybe that like to Chris's point, we need to have I I can put something together. we can do a workshop with the planning commission and the city commission and I can show you what that worksheet is and then we can you can help direct with some of that

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priorit prioritization as from your mind. I don't know if that's something that um city manager wants to do or can help me organize that. >> Yeah, we can definitely put a joint public workshop together. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> And and to um Mr. Dw's deweiler

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>> deweiler >> dew deweiler sorry um I think you know allowing the public to say hey these are my ideas we can't guarantee that we're we can do regulation for every single person but at least we can allow them to

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help help mold whatever that ordinance is to help city look to what it is. there are certain, you know, requirements. We have legality issues. We have, you know, infrastructure issues. Those those are things that we

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have to take a look at that maybe the public doesn't know or understand. So, that's an opportunity in those workshops to help us kind of whittle that down a little bit more. >> Yes. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Mr. Basher. >> A lot of good information. Um, a lot of

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good ideas here, but I'm going to talk about Jaime's elephant, eating it one bite at a time. We all know the budget constraints we're under and the funding issues we're going to see. The main thing she's asking for that I see is being able to utilize an outside consultant that's going to run 200k or

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so. Um, I think we all need to be ready at the next workshop, budget workshop to decide and discuss where we're going to get this money from, what we're going to give up, what we're not going to give up, what our priorities are on that budget, and how does this fit into it? Because to me, that's the main thing. We

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all agree we need zoning. We need the uldc updated. We need the comp plan updated. We've got to pay for it, and we've got to decide how we're going to pay for it and where that funding is going to come from. I think that is the main decision y'all are going to face. Not whether you want to do this or not,

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but how we're going to pay for it. >> Fair point. And spoken like a true finance member. >> I'm glad you're using your crutches today, Johnny. You're running up here yesterday. >> Thank you, Johnny. Anyone else? Mer,

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if not, really appreciate y'all being here today. Uh, city commission, city manager, any last words? >> Gina, again, thank you. Awesome presentation. Thank you all everybody for being here. Hope you have a great weekend.