Heavenly Father, we thank you for this opportunity you give us in this in the free America to come together to uh conduct government business to um express our freedom of speech and our
liberties. It is a truly a privilege. I pray speak a blessing over this commission uh that your holy spirit will lead and guide and direct their decision making and bless citizens of Lyn Haven. We speak this in Jesus name. Amen.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. All right. Public commentary. Rich
Walker. >> Good evening. Rich Walker, 11:06 Michigan Avenue. Make it quick. Um, negative. No. Positive. Yes, we've had a rough year. Going to start a new one. I hope everyone had a good Christmas
and I wish you all a happy new year. Especially this city, it's going to need it. What we got coming up, what we're looking forward to a lot of decisions. I hope you, ladies and gentlemen, make it a better year than the one we had. Thank
you very much. Cory Langford. >> Good evening. Um, I just wanted to take a a brief minute to talk about the uh the flock camera uh discussion that's ongoing within the city of Linhaven. Um, I think you all know where I stand. There was some um individuals who
requested um I guess maybe as a public experiment um for individuals specifically elected officials to request their own flock data for the last 30 days. Um so today um although I'm not an elected official I I made that request of my own data. Um and the
next commission meeting that'll be available for whomever wants to see that. I'll share it on social media um as well. Um, but as I as I started thinking about this and and the and the deflocking nature of of what the request is of remove these cameras, I kind of
thought, well, you know, that would kind of make our our law enforcement go back to maybe their policing in 1990 again. We're going to remove that techn that that techn technology from them to where they wouldn't have that edge anymore.
So, you know, if if we're expecting our police officers to police like we're in 1990, maybe we should have our own experiment and let's live our our our personal lives like it's 1990. So my request is
is that for those who want the flock cameras to be removed in the city of Linhaven, what I would like for you to do is is for 30 days and we could negotiate maybe go two weeks um to unplug your Wi-Fi router from your home.
Um I would also like for you to set your phone on your living room nightstand um and only answer it if it rings. So, it'll basically serve as like a a landline telephone. And we'll we'll kind of go that direction. For those who are
a little bit uh younger than I am, we [clears throat] used to use rabbit ears to get channels on the TV and they they became especially effective when you added tin foil to the top of them. Um so, I've got more tips and tricks like that for anyone who's interested. But um
that's what I would encourage the the residents of Lyn Haven who who want to deflock and remove this technology uh from the city and from our law enforcement officers. If we expect our law enforcement officers to police like it's 1990, then let's live our lives
like it's 1990 for about two to four weeks and let's revisit the situation. Thank you. Christy Maroy. Gentlemen, Christy Maroy, Port St. Joe. I gave to you guys an article as well as
um the last time that I spoke I talked about the evidence that was found uh in the sofa of Mr. Malindon's foreclosed home. Um I sent y'all this
photo, but it clearly says these are bullet casings. It has a number on it. It has the officer of Nanette Goodwin. This did not She didn't even know that
these were being held. So, it's all right here and you all have it. Don't try to act like Mr. Malindon didn't have this in his sofa cuz he did.
and as the custodian of records or whatever in the heck name y'all gave him to make this all look okay. This isn't okay. The other thing I want to mention is
this article. It shows the history about Michael White, his whole situation, how he resigned his post after a week,
and that the letter of resignation was written none other by none other than the disbarred uh felon, Adam Albrittain. who was y'all city attorney.
So, I think there are a lot of details in this as it pertains to Miss Gainor, how she got the job. But when you start saying that Mr.
um White got treated differently, he decided to resign. So yeah, he got he he resigned. But you also look have to look at who the attorney was during that time. Someone who was very c caught up in all the
corruption that was going on in Lyn Haven. So I'm sorry that the city of Linhaven is now having to deal with what's going on with Miss Gainor. I'm sorry that two of the commissioners are having to deal with what's going on with Miss Gainor
and I hope that the city attorney will find this article to be enlightening and helpful to the city of Lyn Haven and most importantly to the taxpaying citizens. >> David Kmati Good evening, David Kardi, 1315
Wisconsin Avenue. It has been brought to my attention that our current mayor would lose his seat to a qualified quote unquote stranger with no standing except that he is a military retiree
who has expressed much adoration for two of our commissioners whom [snorts] are military retirees as well. Mr. Nelson sits in his seat, his two terms seat as
mayor. And to my belief and knowledge, he is neither corrupt nor a criminal. Yet [clears throat] he has been challenged unlike any mayor
in the history of Lyn Haven. But my greater concern is this. My beloved mayor, for whom I casted my vote, could be replaced by someone who has never garnered a single vote or held
a single public seat in this city. I cannot believe this is our current and legitimate process of unseating those who we don't like. If so, then let the miracle go round
start. For history will record that we lost our way because the wealthy and the grushfulhearted among us sold out. In summary,
what is [clears throat] happening is that Lin Haven has allowed a process to begin which is crushing our destiny to become a model and attractive city. The 15enters, as I call them, can only
see people with money, wealth, and a greedy spirit. Never purity of heart. I wish everyone a happy and more enlightened new year.
Naylor Bearclaw. Uh good evening folks. My name is Naylor Bearclaw. Um I'm here this evening. I used to live in Lin Haven. I've lived around all places of Bay County. Uh I currently live out of the county, but I work down around here. Um
depends on where the job sends me. It depends on where I'm working at in the panhandle. But I'm here today because several different things. Uh you got a new police chief coming in. I hope that he understands our first amendment rights and I hope he completely upholds the Constitution if you decide to go
ahead and hire him cuz I'm a big person on that. I served in the United States Navy. So, my family's also been in the military. And the reason why I walk around with a camera and I have my press pass and all that is I blame that on my mama. She sat me on the steps of the Congress fighting the big three auto
industry to uh against lemon laws cuz she got sold a crappy car. She went against uh Ioka of Chrysler of all people and beat him. So, if anybody remembers that little bit of history back in the 80s and the 90s. So, I'm here today to talk about uh the Flock
cameras. Several cities across the nation that have had contracts with Flock are cancelling their their contracts. We also now know and has been out there that the Flock cameras are also connected with Ring cameras and Ring cameras and also being connected with Amazon. So, therefore, in a real
nutshell, you lose your internet, you have a system with Amazon, it'll connect to your Ring cameras to your neighbor's house. So you can still connect to that and therefore that's being connected to the Flock camera systems. Flock was just recently in the news and uh one of the
uh groups is 404 media. They cover the fact that they have a camera right at a city park. These guys access the cameras and they were able to hit the delete button on the footage. They had access they hacked over 80,000 cameras. That's what the the the the story says and it's
all over YouTube that since then Flock said they have corrected the issue. Well, I don't know how much they can correct. You know, Flock doesn't just get your license plate. It doesn't just identify your vehicle. They now have AI for facial recognition and a bunch of other things. And that's also being released in the Ring cameras is their
facial recognition software. So, Flock's going to be able to have that. And since Bayrock has got access to going, hey, please give us access to your Ring cameras. Well, now that ring and flock are together. You may not know it, but your ring cameras are going to go ahead and do that for you. They're going to
hook up the flock. So, everybody be mindful of the Fourth Amendment. Be mindful of what you're asking for. We may want to go back to the '9s, but truly policing may not be that way. And I know I was affected by a fly camera because we got pulled over. I wasn't in town, but you pulled over my old lady
said I had a warrant and I know it was a pocket warrant. And I went to go turn myself into jail and they said nobody had entered. and how did you know about the warrant? So, I know that because of a flock camera system shortly after y'all initiated it. So, be mindful of what you wish for because public records
requests have been ruled that they're able to be done by a court in Washington. Thank you very much, >> David Switzer. Evening, commissioners. David Switzer, 323 Alexander Drive. I hope Flock makes
a billion dollars every year doing what they do with private companies, not with the government. That is my problem. This is not trying to set the police back to 1990. This is 1984
with government surveillance without a consent, without probable cause, without reasonable suspicion, and without a warrant. That's enough for me to say get rid of this. There are many cities right now defocking because of
this and many other reasons. What reasons would those be? Broad surveillance of protests, targeting specific groups or communities, targeting reproductive and health related situations and immigration
causes, lack of transparency and oversight. As the gentleman said before, there are flat cameras just within a two weeks that were were accessed. No passwords, nothing. You just you could just go in
there and watch kids playing at the park if you want to. Creepy. This the way that flock was rolled out in Linhaven was wrong. In 2021, we in 2020 we got that one that's over by the bridge that's portable. In 2021 in a CRA
meeting, it was passed. There was zero discussion about what flock is. What Flock is is it takes pictures every time anybody passes that camera in their car and they say, "Oh, well, it's we only
hold it for 30 days." I don't care. Every single day I pass a camera, it takes a picture of me everywhere I go. And that's wrong. That is not the way a a free and open society functions.
The gentleman talked about Bayrock. Bayrock is even worse. If Flock is Big Brother, Bayrock is Big Brother's older brother. I want you to understand that when Bayrock came out in 2021,
it was a project and with zero fanfare, and I'll read to you what is in there. It says that that it gave an authorization um for multiple crime analysis software
c uh traffic cameras throughout the county. Video feeds from schools, drones, license plate readers is the most minimal one, unmanned aerial vehicles, helicopters, and robots.
That's what this is. Please get rid of these cameras. There's been zero audits on this since it came out in 2021. And who knows what came out? Who knows what the police were looking at? We don't know. >> Thank you. >> Thank you,
>> Jerry. Parker. Good evening, Commissioner Jerry Parker. place. I want to state too that I have some concerns about this quick schedule meeting without a vote from the commission. Um, I want to discuss about the police
chief thing. I did some investigation about Blanchard, which shows some concern. Um, he's currently allegedly under investigation, by the way. Um, in March of 2024, the Burke County Sheriff's Office
ongoing investigation of $53,000 something dollars. Money was never in the safe during the sheriff Alfonso Windo Williams first four years in office. Um, he also later on met with Williams at his Bise resort, which is firmly owned by Blanchard. Why are
people meeting in a foreign country? That's really weird. Um, so if there's a $53,000 something dollars missing that still has not been clarified,
is this like the 30,000 backpack debacle for Linhaven? The other thing I want to talk about is when I met um when I text with um Chris Lightfoot, I asked about the December 30th meeting. He clarified it was a regular meeting. didn't want to wait
until January and have 45 agenda items yet. This is a special meeting which he finally put on the agenda and now it only has two. So he said he want didn't want to have 45 in January.
Now he only has two here. So is there going to be 43 in January? How many on the January meeting states? I don't have a number right off hand but will be a good side agenda. So 45 agenda items were on the burden if
this meeting went on December 30th. This is a concern, guys. This is a concern that this special meeting was done. And it looks like we're going to be voting on a police chief.
A police chief that currently is allegedly under investigation. This is a problem. I encourage you to table this situation until after the recall election. Thank you,
>> Laura Lesley. >> [clears throat] >> I'd like to um voice some concerns I have with the block cameras. Continue my comments. [clears throat] Our private data is neither safe with the police departments nor with flock.
And uh there are multiple instances of our data being abused by police officers and chiefs. Um, some examples, uh, a Fedric, Kansas police chief used the Flock LPRs to track his ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend's vehicles 228
times in four plus months. [clears throat] A police chief in Brasleton, Georgia was arrested on charges that he used the city's flock cameras to stalk and harass private citizens. Um, not to mention all the people who have not been caught doing this exact
thing. The data has also been used to wrongfully accuse innocent citizens. In Denver, a woman was wrongfully accused of theft and issued a summon after police use uh flot cameras and Ring doorbell cameras to access her location.
Uh she later proved her innocence by providing her own camera footage um but not after being accused by the police on her doorstep. Um, and he said to her, "You know, we have cameras in that town. You can't get a breath of fresh air in or out of that
place without us knowing." Now, Flock also has access to customer data and shares it with whoever they deem necessary. In section 4.2 two of the city's contract with Flock. It states, quote, customer grants Flock a non-exclusive, irrevocable, worldwide,
royalty-free license to use the customer generated data for the purpose of providing Flock services. Flock does not own and shall not sell customer generated data." End quote. Meaning the people at Flock have access to our data and can do with it whatever they please and just by saying it's for block
service, sorry, flock services. [clears throat] Um, and we know this because it was found in a recent leak that workers in the Philippines were using customer data. Uh, workers were hired by Flock through Upwork and they were reviewing and categorizing images
from the United States in order to train its machine learning algorithms. My point is that we have no idea who has access to our data and no control over who it's shared with. Um, if our private information can't even be trusted with
police chiefs, why are we trusting a private for-profit company? Um, and [clears throat] lastly, um, I would like to remind you that warrantless searches fly in the face of a key American principle, and that is separation of powers. By advocating for
warrantless drag net surveillance, power is consolidated into the executive branch while excluding the judicial branch. No checks and balances. Any support for flock surveillance should result in uh cognitive dissident because you have to justify the infringement of
the rights of the many to protect the people. >> Thank you. Carrie Mcome Kenny. All right. Any additional public commentary? Yes.
I just um I have a question about something on the consent agenda number 11. Uh what is the additional work for the change order? I just would like some explanation on that please. >> Additional public commentary. >> All right. Are there any additions,
deletions, modifications of agenda? >> Yes, I'd like to add an item. Um, I know this is something Commissioner Tinder had brought up before about uh state audit. Um, have some discussion about that. Um, after I got some uh
communication with Jay Trumble. All right. Make a motion for it. Make a motion to add agenda item. um discuss uh possibly um requesting a state audit. >> Second.
All right. Comments from the public. >> All right. You'll call the vote. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peeles? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson?
>> Yes. Motion passed. We will add that to uh agenda for item number 15. All right. Any other additional deletions, additions, deletions, modifications for agenda? All right. Uh moving on to the uh mayors
and commissioners reports. Um been a hopefully a good holiday for everyone. Um know we it's been a while since we've uh come together. uh had our first commission meeting earlier this month and um during that time of course we've had some uh interviews with the various
chief candidates. So thank you to staff uh Mr. Lightfoot and others for setting those up so that we could get acquainted um with the final candidates and then get an opportunity to meet the candidate that's coming before us um tonight as well. Um also had a chance to um speak
with various citizens about concerns in our community. Um, there's one I need to follow up with you on, uh, Chris in regards to like, uh, I think we did some work in the yard previously and for some sewage issues and seemingly maybe we didn't put the dirt back or there's like
a hole or something in the yard. This one's on Alabama um6003 Alabama. And so they called about that and then wanted to also and I can send the pictures to you as well for this one. Uh
and it's just a reoccurring one over on 18th Street. Um I guess what we as we put in is come back out. So So it's like that pothole like right there in the middle of the uh of the road. So, okay. I'm sure they would love to hear
that. Yeah, cuz I was walking down that road uh maybe a day before yesterday and just saw where we had a couple more spots there um where obviously we had patched it, but it for whatever reason it's come back out in a couple of places. So, um they I'm sure they'll be
glad to hear that. So, um, also had a chance to meet earlier, um, before our meeting tonight with a couple of our citizens to discuss, um, deflocking Linhaven. And so, um, gave a a lot of good insight and some things for us to consider. And of course, we heard some
of those things at last meeting, um, as well, things that maybe we didn't think about in 2021, um, when this initially came before us, um, to discuss with, um, our police department. And I know we've said there's going to be some, you know, things that we discuss or some expectations that we would have as it
relates to the um the auditing as well as um the surveillance of the actual flock system and the database itself. So um but it was it was very insightful especially to get their perspective on some particular issues um as it relates to flock um and the deflocking of
Linhaven. So um that is my report. Commissioner Peebles. >> Thank you, Mayor. [clears throat] Like the mayor said, we had our interviews with the the three finals for the chief of police position. So, thank
you for to the staff for putting that together. Um, it's really awesome. All three candidates were excellent. Very excellent. Um, and so thank you for putting that together. Um, one thing I wanted to address was that last commission meeting, uh, Mr. Thompson
came up here and said something about five CDs or whatever. Uh, I just wanted to say on the record that I didn't know what he was talking about at the time as far as the five CDs go, but I went back and did more research on it. Um, I I
just made the assumption that since Commissioner Tinder had that evidence, said she turned it over. Um, I was under the impression that it was being handled. Uh, I went back, read the reports, you know, it was handed over to the sheriff's office, they did their report. The main thing I gathered from
this whole situation is whether or not things are handled properly from here on forward, we need to take I say we I would I would like to see the new chief of police look very closely at the evidence and custodian um policies, make
them stricter so that this doesn't ever happen again and that we look at how to enforce those policies cuz really ultimately that that's what it came down to is we need to have better policies. And um that's one of the things I asked all three candid chief of police
candidates was how are you with police policies because we need to work on them. And um I'm confident that all three candidates had an extensive background in uh police policy. So that was good. Um and with that uh I'm sure we'll have more conversation about the
the defocking and all that. I guess I'll just go ahead and ask uh Mr. Lightoot since there was a question about um number 11. Do you just want to go ahead and answer that number 11 on the agenda? >> Yes, sir. So, that is the legislative storm water project. Uh we've got the project completed and just cleaning it
up. We had a lot of extra uh fill that had to be removed from the site. Wasn't any good fill uh new field uh taken back in as well as some uh inlet modifications there. So, another reason to add it to this agenda is we need to get reimbursed. In order to do that, we need to complete the change order, get
all of our paperwork in line so that Mr. Baker can submit for reimbursement to the state. >> Thank you. Sure. We'll have more uh talk about the the flock cameras because we have the I believe the flock represent representative presentation coming up.
So, we'll be able to talk about that more. But with that, just want to say merry Christmas, happy holidays, and hope everyone has a happy new year. And there's a lot of people around getting sick. So, take your vitamin C. All right. Thanks,
Thank you, mayor. I don't have much other than to wish everybody a happy new year. Um, it's we all did our our interviews with the finalist of the police chief position. We all went to wreaths across America.
Even city manager was there, too. And I I thought it was a great morning. And uh I got to see people that really take that to heart. And it was a good it was a good experience. Um uh I hope everybody had a great holiday
and and and uh and continues to enjoy the new year safely. So with that, I wish uh many thanks to all of our employees and first responders. And that's my report. >> Thank you, sir. Commissioner Ward.
So I also went to the Wreath Across America as always every year. It's an awesome event. If you've never been to it, I I uh highly recommend uh going next year. Uh it's a very sobering event. Um and after that, I I went with Mr. Lightfoot to uh animal shelter where
they had uh what was it? Dogs and donuts or whatever it was called. I didn't have any donuts. I've had No, I didn't get a dog either. I didn't get a dog, [laughter] but uh he he showed me around and some of the areas that they wanted to prove um improve over there. So, I had a good
walk through and uh got a warm welcome uh from the animal shelter and I appreciate everything they do over there. Um, one thing I I did since last commission meeting is I met with the city clerk over in Panama City. Um, was able to sit down and kind of understand the duties and responsibilities of the
city clerk over there. Theirs is kind of unique because they also have the financial aspect um that they do. and a good portion of it I kind of um had a good grasp of, but she also taught me some other things um with the uh the
duties responsibility of the city clerk, especially with them doing financials things. So, um I'm hoping to use that information whenever um it comes to us and possibly go on the referendum. Um and uh I think that was pretty much it.
>> All right, Commissioner Tinder. >> Thank you. Uh certainly merry Christmas to everybody. Um it's been for me personally, I'll have to totally be retrained when I go back to work because I've been off work since the 20th and I'm not going back till the
6th. So um some of the things that I my phone has been ringing off the hook. I have to say that first uh about many things. One of the things I can say regarding
um the whole bullet situation, the M Lindon situation, that whole thing. Um I was only involved in that because that person, that resident wanted to give me
the evidence. I then called and uh Intrim Police Chief Infinginger sent over a investigator from the sheriff's department. He came to the cafe.
I saw everything that was there that this person brought back and I then left the room and said I didn't want to hear anything else. I left the room until they all left. This evidence
was given to the gentleman at the sheriff's department. And I'm here to tell you that was never even given a case number at the sheriff's department. I jokingly said, "Oh, he probably picked it all up and brought it over here and dropped it
off." I don't know that, but I do know for a fact it was never given a case number at the sheriff's department. So, um, with that said, I'm still in question of that. Um, and of course, I'd
be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that I don't understand about all of the um, IT equipment. I still don't understand how that was just disregarded and uh, it was decided not to press any charges for all that equipment. And I've
been told that was between 70 and $80,000 worth of equipment. it disappeared and was brought back upon a phone call from someone. That just leaves big questions in my mind. Um the person with this bullet
casing situation with Mr. uh or officer Malindon, they call me and say, "Have you heard anything? Do you know anything?" And I hate to always have such a negative
attitude about it, but I always tell this officer, "No, I've not heard anything else. It's just kind of it's just there." Um, one of the things, one of the things that, uh, well, are we
going to discuss the the, uh, potential police chief later and then we'll be able to discuss that? Okay. Then I won't say anything about that. Um, I do have I also received a phone call
um from a police officer with longtime experience and I was told that an officer can put a phone number, their phone number in the flock system and put in who they're tracking and
every time that Flock system picks that number up, it will text that person that's put their phone number in I don't know if it I don't know if it's true. I'm just saying this is what I have been told by people with experience and um
I don't know one way or another. But I also talked that right after the last meeting I went and called the folks at um the country club because we were all talking about the fact country club has flock and sure enough had a very lovely
conversation with the lady from the HOA there. They do have flock there. They pay for them just like Chris said. They pay for the uh machines they have. And when I asked her who had access
to that material on those flat cameras. Her answer to me was the board of directors. We can all look at it. And I said, "Well, can I just ask why do you have it there?" And she said, "So they know who's coming and going in and
out of their community." So I guess as a group, anybody could go out and purchase a flock program uh for their neighborhood or what whatever. Um I like Corey's idea. I could get rid of my cell phone tomorrow and not miss it one bit.
Not one bit. And uh uh I like his idea. Let's go back to 1990. But anyway, and I know that the flock representative is here. And I do think it's more about regulations and about backup and followup to make sure that we're doing
what we say we're doing. That's the most important thing. And we're all talking transparency. And uh that's my number one goal for 2026. Let's get transparent. And um that would
make a good flyer now that I said that. Um let's get transparent. Anyway, um I think that's all I have. I want everybody to have a nice holiday and 26 has got to get better as we go and um hopefully we can guide into the
direction that will it's never going to suit all. Everybody's not going to always be happy, but hopefully the majority and um we can get some solid things in place for 2026. Thank you very much.
All right. Thank you, Mr. Lightfoot. Yes, sir. Commissioner Tender, on the report that I sent you of Mr. Mindon, there's actually two case numbers on it. One's a reference case number and then one is a PSU complaint number. And then that's on the first
page at the very top there. And then the sheriff's office has a memo that they did with all of their findings as well in that report I sent you. Um, told you all already, but the salary study has been started. Evergreen uh was the the lowest bidder on that. We got that
started. So hopefully within the next 90 to 120 days, we'll start seeing some data and start being able to bring that to you all so we can kind of adjust some salaries and and get some of that cleaned up. Playground at Kane Griffin Park will be closed to the public beginning January 5th and that will last
through the end of February so that we can make the park renovations there. We'll have it all fenced off and closed. Hopefully, it'll be cold during that time so no one misses out on a lot of park time. And then >> but the whole park or just the playground? >> Just the playground portion. Yes, sir. And then the Perry weather system is up
and running. Got a lot of unexpected feedback on Facebook for that. But that is actually a lightning detection system uh for the splash pads, for the ball fields. Uh that was in the budget. Um Fire Chief Johnson can speak more on if you would like some more information from him on that, but it is finally up
and running and we can utilize that throughout our parks. All right. Thank you, sir. >> Before we go on to the thought, uh, any questions for Miss Roman with a checklist? >> I only have one question. You've already answered the others that I had. And I
believe I could impose on intram chief infinginger. I think you're the only person that can answer my questions. Is he here? >> Yeah. There was um and I'm just going to start
to explain what I'm going to ask you. Uh there was one uh check that we issued for $6720 to a company called Magnet Forensics and um you know me, I'm always pinching
pennies, but uh it said a subscription dues, police dues. So my I looked them up magnet forensics and they specialize in digital evidence. Can you just explain to us what that is? >> I don't know. I'll have to look into
that and get back to you. >> Okay. >> I I don't know off the top of my head what that is, but I'll get an answer for you. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Welcome. >> That's the only question I have. >> The [ __ ] All right. This time we have our flock
representative to come for presentation and uh did speak with um in manager lightfoot earlier. So what we'll like to do tonight is allow the presentation or have the presentation after the presentation open to the public for
about 15 minutes for questions and then bring it to the commission for any questions that we might have. >> Good evening. How's everyone doing? Um, first I want to thank you all for let having me here tonight. Uh, and also Mr. Bmpton at it. We had to wrestle to
get this presentation up. So, got it up there and as well as deputy chief and finger as well for asking us to be here today. My name is Carrie McCormack and I am on the public affairs team at Flock Safety. I've been with the company for about three months. Uh, prior to this I
was uh 10 years a city council member in Cleveland, Ohio. Uh, so you can imagine when my boss said, "Hey, I need you to go down to Florida when it's -3, feels like temperature in Cleveland." This was not a hard yes for me. So, appreciate
you all having me down here. And you can tell I'm already getting a little sunburn just from being outside. Uh, this evening, I just want to give you uh a brief overview of our company. Um, who we are, who we aren't. I know you've heard a lot in the press, you've heard a lot from uh you know uh different websites and things like that, but I
think it's important that we ground uh the conversation and exactly who we are or are not. So uh next slide please. So just a brief overview on our company. So we are an American company. We are based in Atlanta, Georgia. Uh but we have uh
folks around the country. So for example, I'm based in Cleveland, Ohio. Uh we've got a significant team in Florida. All around the country. So, we are spread out uh across the country. We have 6,000 communities that we partner with. Um every state except Alaska. Not
quite sure why not Alaska, but Alaska's not in there yet. Uh but we range from small towns to big cities. We truly run the gambit. Um I've been at commission meetings, you know, with under a thousand folks that live in a community. Uh and you know, we serve all the way up to the biggest cities in the country. We
also have 1,500 businesses uh that we work with across the country. So, uh think about retail uh shops, uh different organizations as well as HOAs, too. And I'll explain a little bit more how they differ in the system. Um but we
primarily focus on local communities, but we also have business partners. Uh in addition, uh 2,800 crimes are solved per day using Flock. We we'd like to be very clear about that. Police solve crimes. uh law enforcement solves crimes, but um using our tool, it's able
to help them do that, and we'll dig into that. Uh as well as 15% of reported crime in the US uh solved using Flock. This was from a uh TSU independent study that they uh ran for us. Next slide, please. Thank you. So again, um
hardworking law enforcement across the country solves crime. We know that. Um but we see ourselves as a collaborative policing technology and partner with law enforcement and communities. So that's that force multiplier enabling agencies of all sizes to solve more crime and
increase quality of life. I'll speak for myself coming from Cleveland, we're 300 officers short. Uh so this whether you're fully staffed or you're struggling with staffing can be a force multiplier to achieve the public safety goals that are important to community members across the country. Next slide,
please. So tonight we'll focus on license plate readers. Um that is what's active here in Linhaven. Um, so license plate readers uh take a one-time photo of the back of a vehicle. Uh, and so as you can see here, um, what happens is if
your police department uploads a plate into what's called a hot list, that is when it will alert the department. So if I'm driving down the road and I'm not on the hot list, I will not alert the department. So, for example, uh if
there's an individual that is wanted for a crime, so you know, whether that's uh assault or homicide, heaven forbid, uh and the police department uploads that plate into the system, that's when it'll ping an alert. Commonly, too, we also
see things like child abductions, unfortunately, uh and silver alerts. So, those are our senior citizens that may have memory challenges, too. uh law enforcement across the country um upload that information into uh and we're proud to partner with organizations
uh like the National Center for Missing and Endangered Children, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, which we'll see in a little bit too, um that we work with to find missing family members. Um ve vehicle fingerprint is also a component of the technology. So again, captures the back of the vehicle. So
it's going to get the license plate and then the characteristics in the back of the vehicle. So, as Deputy Chief Enfinger can tell you, um, sometimes when folks commit crime, they will swap a plate. They'll take the plate off, uh, different things like that. So, that that way the photo of the back of the
vehicle can tell you what's the make of the vehicle, body type, color, does it have a roof rack? Essentially, what you would get if you if you stood at the corner uh of the street with your cell, your iPhone, and took a picture of the back of that car. So, it's going to be able to identify those items. Night
vision. Um, I don't need to tell anybody here. Crime happens at night, too. Uh, so the cameras are equipped with night vision. So, even in the night, they're able to see a plate or characteristics. Next slide, please. So, one of the things that I we really want to focus on tonight is privacy and
transparency. From the very beginning of this company being founded, this was a core pillar and it remains that way today. Next slide. So, let's talk about facts. So we'll start on the my left hand side I think. Yep. Everybody's lefth hand side. So the data that is
collected by flock. So the photo of the back of the vehicle is owned by the community in which it belongs to. So the picture any photos that are taken in Linhaven are owned and controlled by Linhaven. Block does not sell data. It
is not our business plan. We do not do it. Is it is in your contract. We do not sell data. We're not a social media company. We're not Facebook or Google, anything like that. Private customers never have access to government data or hot list. Really important. So that HOA,
that country club, that Home Depot, that store that might use Flock, they do not have access to any law enforcement data. They can allow law enforcement to ask for their photos, but um they cannot
access the system or any law enforcement information. Uh Flock automatically deletes the data after 30 days unless it is downloaded for an investigation. So unless the police department says, "Hey, we got a photo. It's involved in a crime and
we're going to download that photo." Unless they do that, the um information and the pictures and the data are hard deleted at a 30-day level. We can't recover them. You can't recover them. They are hard deleted. Uh Flock has no access to personally identifiable
information. Again, this is the photo of a back of a vehicle. So, um the photo will not tell you who's in the car, who's driving it, their favorite color, their phone number, their name, any of it. So none of that information comes with the photo of the back of the vehicle
and only your agency decides who to share with not flock. So agencies across the country as you can imagine make their own decisions for what's best for them. There are certain agencies that say we want to share in a nationwide network. There are other agencies that
say we only want to share with the state of Florida or the state of Ohio or the state of Nevada. There are some agencies that say we only want to share with our county or our neighboring towns. That is completely up to the discretion of the agency. Obviously, as law enforcement
professionals will tell you, um crime doesn't stop at the exact border of the town. So usually uh it makes sense uh to collaborate with the communities around you uh when looking for uh crime or missing people or senior citizens because those things usually don't stop
at the the border of your um community. The right hand side talks about uh the encryption of the data. So the moment the photo of the back of the vehicle is taken, it is encrypted from front to back. Uh which I am not a computer scientist. Essentially that means that
the image is scrambled um before it goes into the cloud to ensure that it cannot be corrupted or hacked. Um and then it we are also uh we use the AWS gov cloud. What that means is all of these letters
to the right here are all certifications for securing data um national certification. So even though the photo is of a public license plate owned by the state on a public road, Flock treats
that data like it were a social security number. Again, we don't have that, but we tra we treat it that sensitively to ensure the safety of the data. And you can see there um uh you know how we align that cyber security. To be clear, Flock has never been hacked. Our data,
our customers data has never been hacked. period. Next slide, please. All right. So, a couple other items here. Um what you'll see on the right hand uh screen here is an example of what's called a transparency portal.
Some communities choose to use these, some don't. Again, the company believes in empowering local communities to make their own decisions. So, what this transparency does, uh, Sanwaqin County, California, and you can also choose to use this or
not, and also what information you want up there. So, right here, kind of hard to read, but it'll show you who they share with, that's that long list right there, how many cameras they have, um, you know, what type of information, what is the period of time that they save the
data and things like that. So, that is publicly accessible to anybody uh, who wants to look at it. So that's available to anyone that wants to use those. We also have um uh uh protections built in place. So for example, every search
requires a registered ID with a search reason and case number. Um, and what that is is, so when an officer goes in um to say, "Hey, plate 123 ABC was involved in retail theft," they have to
outline what the reason is they're looking for that plate, who the officer was that looked for it, what were the circumstances around that, and all of that information, every time a police officer goes in that's
authorized to use the system does so, um it is uh put into a permanent audit trail. So what that means even though the data the photos delete after 30 days, there is an audit trail that shows you who did what when and for what
reason and any community can pull up those audits. The other thing we'll uh note here is you know and and we encourage folks to to use those audit tools. That's the next point there. Um another thing too, we have more tools coming into place
from uh our engineers to ensure compliance. Uh I'll say as an anecdote, you'll hear a few examples of where agencies across the country have misused the system. A couple things, a few examples out of 6,000 agencies that use
this every single day across America. And that's why you can count these on a single hand. However, zero misuse is acceptable. And that's why we encourage anytime whether it's flock or not, anytime there's misuse within the government that that misuse is fully
investigated uh and treated under the laws of that community. So we fully encourage that. Next slide please. So another thing just to mention here um you know again doubling down on transparency and accountability. Uh Flock has brought on a new chief
legal officer to lead our compliance. Uh we have tripled our policy headcount. Those policy folks are building in more and more tools in the system. Um we expanded our trust and safety programs. Um revamped customer training. So we're going back to our customers uh to ensure
that they understand how the system works and you know what those levers are within the system. We added a product compliance manager rule as well. Um, and then again, as I noted earlier, we are releasing new built-in compliance protections into the system. Um, so
we've got search filters in place, uh, as you can see there, additional search pl uh, filters. Um, we've got proactive auditing [clears throat] that's come in as well as federal limitations. And so what that means is there are certain states around the country, California is
an example, by law, they prohibit a local agency from sharing information with the federal government. So the system is able to accommodate those laws state by state, community by community to ensure they're in compliance. Uh the other thing we've done is to ensure that
you all know who you're sharing with um and to make sure that you know you're you're comfortable with the communities that you're sharing with. And then the standardized search reasons that requires um uh agencies that use it to put a standard law enforcement certified
search reason in there. So, it can't be, you know, a random reason. It's got to be a legal reason um outlined within uh federal law enforcement manuals. Next law or next, please. Couple of myths and facts here. So, uh LPRs can track people
and show police everywhere they go. Um that is not true. These are point in time photos that again generate an alert if the police department puts a plate in for a specific reason. So Carrie McCormack committed a armed robbery at
123 Main Street. We're going to put my plate into there uh to then see if I am driving throughout the town as an example. Uh and courts have consistently found uh that images of public documents, so license plates on public roads is not a violation of privacy nor
the Fourth Amendment, which we'll talk about right here. So a myth that uh LPRs violate the Fourth Amendment. Um so appellet and federal district courts uh in at least 14 states where this has been tried including the 9th and 11th circuits have upheld using evidence from
license plate readers as constitutional without requiring a warrant. So federal courts tested throughout the country have held that up. Next slide please. So Flock sells customer data. The myth compiling it all into a national database. Communities own 100% of their
data. We do not sell it. That's not only our policy. it's in your contract. Uh, and again, we uh work with 6,000 agencies around the country that can tell you that every day. A myth, flocks private customers. I've already talked about that. Uh, so private customers don't have access to uh law enforcement
data. Next slide, please. So, a myth, flocks LPR cameras use facial recognition. That is just not true. The cameras do not use facial recognition. Uh, they do not have the capacity to do that. They do not do it. LPR cameras collect personally identifiable information. Once again, we talked about
that earlier. Um, the the uh LPR cameras get the back of the car, so the plate make model color, things like that. They don't know who's in the car. They don't get a picture of the person or anything like that. Next slide, please. This is the last myth slide, I believe. So, uh, LPR cameras negatively impact
communities of color. Uh, so that has been shown over and over not to be the case, especially because this is factual, demonstrable, objective evidence. Uh, this was actually recently recognized uh by the Oakland, California NAACP
uh who uh has been highly supportive of the technology in the community. Uh LPRs don't have an impact on crime. Um again, simply not true. Uh we, you know, you ask law enforcement agencies across the country that use our technology uh and they can tell you and again we have some
specific examples here, but they can tell you how that's um how flocks technology can have a big impact on reducing crime. Next slide, please. So again, just I'm not going to read these, but you can see across the country, there's new stories every single day about how our technology is
being used. Um, recently there's a high-profile case, but uh the Brown MIT shootings uh that happened in New England. Um the FBI and local police specifically um credited Flock for being able to find
the individual who committed those murders. But that's a high-profile picture. There are many other um examples around the country every day. Next slide. Here in Florida. Next slide. So there's 160 law enforcement plus uh law
enforcement agencies using Flock. A few examples you can see right here in front of you. Next slide. Some um real stories from here in Florida. So Florida City PD. Uh March 28th, Homestead police officers responded to reports of an attempted
abduction. 13-year-old victim recounted that a male suspect attempted to drag her into his vehicle as she was walking to school. After reviewing the surveillance footage and obtained description of the vehicle, which they shared with the PD, they put that into their LPR system. Again, uploaded that
plate into the system. Um identifying an indiv uh a vehicle. officers responded to the vehicle owner's residence and arrested the suspect. So again, an example of good policing work assisted by the technology. I'm not going to read through all these,
but a wanted homicide suspected also arrested. Um, next slide, please. Uh, and then again, the child abduction, another child abduction as well. Next slide, please. So, quick case example, and again emphasizing um the power of this technology. This is
a real story from a mom and a little baby uh in Georgia. So 12:33 uh an Amber Alert was issued PM uh from a random abduction. This was not someone that knew the family. A random person uh abducted this this baby.
10:01 p.m. a search was conducted using flock. 2:30 p.m. the suspect vehicle was located. 5:03 p.m. law enforcement made a felony stop and arrest. 6 PM baby reunited with her mother. So you can imagine what I would what I would
imagine would be the worst day of her life. Um you know with the hard work of law enforcement and the use of the technology they were able to bring that baby home. Again we talked about uh the the court challenges uh to flock but again over and over
again has been found to be um upheld uh by the fourth amendment. Next slide please. So, just a couple uh examples. Again, like I said, we um some of our supporters and partners, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, uh National Center for Missing and Endangered
Children, um we partner to um with organizations that also are working to crack down on human and sex trafficking, some of those heinous crimes that happen in our country. Next slide, please. Again, as I noted before, um the Oakland NAACP talking about how this is
objective evidence in removing bias. Next slide, please. Thank you. I hope I didn't go too long. >> All right. Thank you for your presentation. At this time, uh we'll like to uh open the floor. Uh we can go
uh rowbyrow for about 15 minutes. Um if there's some questions from the we're going to go to the public first and then come back to us. >> You got it. >> Uh if there's >> side or >> Yeah. If you just stand to the side of the podium. Uh yeah. Don't go too far cuz they're going to come. You're going
you're going to have to answer the question. >> Yeah. All right. First wrote, "Mr. Langford, >> one of them kids stories. That's what gets after me." Um, let's say there was an Amber Alert that came out on my phone and it said, "Hey, we got a missing
child was last seen in a a red Toyota Corolla. Here's the tag number." Okay. And I go and I drive my car out here to Bailey Bridge. I stand there and I start taking pictures with my cell phone of cars that go by, specifically a red
Toyota Corolla. And I find that tag number. I call the Linhaven Police Department and I say, "Hey, I just saw this red Toyota Corolla that I got this Amber Alert on. Can you explain to me the difference between me doing that and
the flock system, please? >> Um, thank you for the question. Um, the difference would be you probably don't have time to sit at that corner and take those photos, but functionally it is the same thing. Um, except obviously the
camera is in place and would be taking the photos of that. So functionally no difference in the sense that a you and your phone or a flock camera is taking a photo of that plate um and then you calling here the flock system would send
an alert to the PD saying hey that red car drove by. Yeah, we I mean again the LPR cameras take a photo of the back of the plate as you could if you stood out on the corner. >> Yes, sir. And just one more um one more question I guess there's been made
mention of people hacking into cameras. Now I noticed that you said that the data has never been hacked into but there's been claims that that cameras are being hacked into and we're being able to watch little kids. Now we've got
cameras here and I know you're you're not from here but it's you can actually go on this website and and there's cameras all on our beach over there. You can actually take control of the camera and you can pan it and look at people on the beach. These are just local camera.
This isn't flock. But my question would be since we can do that with those cameras, okay, if people were able to hack into these cameras, could you kind of elaborate on if that was the case? >> Absolutely. And so again, as a a
context, over 80,000 cameras across the country, 6,000 agencies that operate uh the system well every day. Uh there is a kind of infamous internet guy um that got his hands on one of our cameras. We don't know how. Um he took it apart and kind of went through it. Um and he was
able to essentially access factory settings. So he was not able to access data, databases, a AWS web services, anything like that. So that was one example that went around the internet. Again, he got his hands on a camera. It's illegal to um remove them, but he
got his hands on one. Uh but that was at factory settings. So again, did not have access into data. The second component was um and I think I don't remember when the report came out. Um as and this is not LPRs. So I think I believe only you
only have LPRs here. I think yes. Okay. Um, so this would not have impacted Linhaven at all, but I I believe there were 40 live cameras that when they were being installed, um, like there was a feed issue and they
were someone on the internet was able to, um, not get into the data, not get into any recordings, but temporarily get into the view. So that was a real issue. I think it was about 40 cameras out of the thousands across the country. um obvious and that was while they were
being installed and certified within the Verizon system. Now again I apologize I am not a computer scientist um but again the company immediately rectified that uh as well. So that went around the internet as well.
>> Mr. Switzer questions. Are you going to eliminate crime if your cameras only take pictures of crimes? That it doesn't make sense. That's that was your the first slide is we're going to eliminate crime, but it's like you're you're not. Number two
is um how is it that you how is it that you come about that 15% of the crimes are solved using flock when the data is deleted after 30 days. >> Yeah, really important questions. Um first I would say that the company's
goal is to work with law enforcement across the country to eliminate crime. Um I'm proud of that goal. I would I imagine most residents uh want to see crime reduced and it'd be a great day if it went away in total. Um the way our system works is uh again we as I said in
the very beginning we are not police officers. We do not arrest anybody. We don't do any of that. We are a tool for law enforcement. And so whereas uh a case whether it is a child abduction, whether it is a homicide, whether it is a burglary,
um may have taken if it is solved, cuz I I'll speak for myself and the community I live in. Um we're getting better, but we had almost half of our homicides were went unsolved. What this technology does is police officers are able to use it to expedite the process and to find hard
evidence to investigate folks that have committed crime or again a missing child or something like that. So again, our police officers do the hard work, our law enforcement, sheriffs, they do the hard work. This is a tool for them to
quickly and from an objective uh evidence perspective identify a criminal or again a missing child of that sort um and to uh investigate that individual. We also, just as a side note that I didn't mention earlier, we encourage
every department that we work with. So, let's see 123 ABC plate went by Fifth and Main Street. We encourage every department to instruct their patrol officers to visually confirm, yep, that's ABC123
Red Toyota before they initiate a stop. So, we do encourage departments to make that visual confirmation. So, again, how do we eliminate crime? We work with police departments and law enforcement as a tool to assist them in doing that.
Um, second question on Oh, shoot. Sorry. Second question, sir. >> Oh, yes. Thank you. So, um, Texas Christian University uh, ran a study on the system. Um, and we can provide that
study to you. it's public where they went through available data uh and came up with that number from our partner agencies. Now what I want to be clear though is that this is the community's data. It is not our data. So we don't have a repository of all of the photos
and they're deleted after 30 days. And so local law enforcement agencies, which I know you all know, um so please I'm not preaching at you. um they hold their crime data data and the crime statistics uh by local community by local community. So we don't hold that
statistics. That's a law enforcement um data component. >> All right, Miss Maroy. agree that your tool is valuable to get the bad guys or ladies off the street, but
we also have to remember the human element that goes into that tool. And sometimes you don't have people that have access to a tool like that with the best intentions.
So that's where technology gets ahead of what the process is, what the laws should be in order to protect not the bad guys and ladies but the innocent.
So, for example, you know, if someone in law enforcement decided they wanted my tag just because you do get a lot of information from a tag. My friend back there and I were
talking about if you got the tag, you can get someone's driver's license. You can get information based off of that tag. And someone just might want to have the information for people that haven't
committed crimes for the sake of nefarious reasons or reasons that aren't um based off of
uh legitimate law enforcement because not everyone one that is a law enforcement officer is necessarily a good person either.
So that's where I would ask the commission to make sure processes in place so we don't have shell casings hidden in a sofa of a law enforcement officer at his foreclosed home.
Miss Laura, can >> I just quickly? >> Sure. >> Mayor, >> it's up to you. It's your >> No, I didn't know if she asked the question. I just thought she did. >> Just very quickly, I wanted to make a note. Uh really important question. And that's why most law enforcement agencies
limit the amount of folks that have access to the system. And again, a reminder, every single search is logged. Every single search. Um and then for the few cases that of abuse that we've seen around the country, um we encourage
again whether it's flack or abuse and public abuse in any other way that those be investigated to the fullest extent of the law. >> Right. Yeah. Mr. Laura, and then we'll come to you, Mr. Walker. Uh my question would be why doesn't
flock require a two-factor or multiffactor authentication blockwide? Um and if a user other than the account holder um had access to uh login, how would Flock know if if that had
occurred? >> Yeah, that's a really great question. So question around multiffactor authentication. So essentially um if you ever go on to website and it makes you send a message to your cell phone or something else that's the multifactor
authentication. So 97% of our users do use MFA and it is our default setting period. there is a 3% of users generally in rural parts of the US um that don't have the technology in place to do that
that are not using MFA but it is our multifactor authentication it is our default um so we have to work with users again usually in more rural lower income parts of the community um but we are actively working to get that number to
100%. question about login. Um, every time uh again someone logs into the system, pulls a report, things like that, it's all in the audit trail. Um, and so that would be in in your audit is is the easiest way to answer
question. >> Other question would be uh I'm not super technologically savvy, but um in terms of how the AI identifies vehicles, it has to be trained to identify vehicles. Correct. Um, and then followup would be,
um, since it's a computer, it allows for software updates. Um, and how does how would something like that work? >> Yep. Really good question. And again, I'm also not a computer scientist, so forgive me. Um, so again, uh, the cameras take a picture of the back of
the vehicle and they're able to identify through sorting. Again, is it red? Is it a Toyota? What's the license plate? Does it have a big bumper sticker on the back? Um, so the cameras do have that capability. Um, and then um
again software updates. Yes, thank you. So yes um actually what one of the benefits of the system is that Flock does run software updates on its cameras as a part of your contract. Um just like any piece of equipment, it's something that you want to do every once in a while. We
have an entire team called um community success group. Um they work directly with law enforcement and um agencies, yourself included if you'd like. Uh anytime there's a software update, there's a change, they will uh schedule a meeting with you if you'd like, and
walk you through what those are. Um those are really important. Um because a lot of times they they help update the system and keep it running well. Um but they we have an entire team that's literally built in to walk you through those changes. Right, Mr. Walker.
>> I had this discussion when we first brought up the subject with one of the commissioners and he made a remark that uh uh the codes and everything that are protected um very rarely get broken. There's only one code ever been used
that's not been broken. period in all the years. Being a communications office for the United States government very very critical of security.
If you delude yourself to believe that encryption systems codes not being hacked right now, you're a fool. They've got it. They're at it. So, if you got a camera doing something out
there, they do it with the gas stations. They're right by the reader. They get it right away. Do not delude yourself. You have to have faith in what you hire to do the job.
United States government does not does not allow our codes to be manufactured or out for purchase. They are self-contained. They have never been broken state. The
one code that never was broken was the code talkers Navajo Indians. Yes, sir. >> So, quick question. Um, I didn't maybe you said it, maybe I didn't catch it, your job position. Are you like a sales
rep or a public information officer? >> Great question. So, my official title is I'm a manager of public affairs. I don't sell anything. I do not make commission. I'm on our external affairs team. So when communities like yours have really important questions, they send me to Florida, thankfully when it's 30° in
Cleveland, um uh to answer questions. But no, I don't sell anything. I don't make commission. I'm not in the sales team. >> That that leads me to um ask this. So, say you don't sell the data to anybody else or anything like that, but there
are agencies that can be set up to share with neighboring agencies or the counties or whatever state. But really, help me help it make make it sense that we are the taxpayers. We pay we fund them. We fund the state agencies. We
fund the we fund the police. So therefore, we're going to pay for our data to be accessed not only by y'all, but by them and whatever other agencies. So really, we're paying for our own selves to be collected.
So help me make it make sense that you're not selling the data, but you are selling the data because when you buy into a contract, you're doing that that sales. And I I know a little bit about sales because I did a lot of that being out here in the service industry and hospitality in Pamela City Beach for years growing up as a kid. So how is
that not selling the data? >> Yeah, I think that's a really really good and important question. I the differentiator I would draw there is usually what would happen is a company would like a Facebook or social media they would collect your data. What are you buying? Where did you search? things
like that and then they would go to other companies trying to sell you things and sell that information about you. Flock does not do that. So yes, uh like any service that you get into, you pay for Flock, whether it's road repair,
you buy tires for your city vehicles or whatever that might be, you absolutely pay for the service. The difference is is that that data that is collected is put into a unique cloud for the city of Linhaven on the AWS server and deleted after 30 days. When it's in the cloud,
it doesn't go to um other companies or anything like that. The city has the ability to share it with other law enforcement uh if they wish. So they could say Panama City, uh, we want to, you know, share our information with you
so that if there's a person that committed a crime in Linhaven and drives into Panama City, you could share that, but it's on a law enforcement basis. Uh, none of that uh, information is sold to third party for monetization.
>> Other question was is that I just got to bring up my note real quick. block alpha dome and the what's the other one? Nova. So there's the uh drone system that you
have that's being developed and then the Nova flock system with a data compiling platform uh which is property records, body warn camera, transcripts, social media and other sources not only to a license plate hit but raising the other concerns
with uh other information being compiled by the other agencies that that are being developed inside with NOVA. And so there's also Flock Aerodome and that's a multi- drone operation system. And then the Flock Alpha drone
can see up to 2,000 ft. So those are possible upgrades that you could sell on a contract. [clears throat] >> Yeah. So um Lindhaven does not have Nova or um the drones. So just to put that out there. Um but yes, Flock does offer
drones. One of the benefits of that um and again forgive me I'm three months in reflecting my time of on city council is we had some really bad deadly police chases uh and so the drones for example can be really helpful aiding in safer police chases. We're also talking to
fire departments with it too. So if you get for example a warehouse fire department can throw up the drone and do a 360 of the warehouse fire keeping the firefighters safer. So there's different uses for the drones. Um the Nova system
is a way to uh easier more in a more easy way find information um publicly available information on a suspect. You all don't have either one of those. Um I'm not here to sell anybody on anything. I'm just saying that you don't have it. So it's you just have the LPR.
So that's but yes, those are both available from the company. >> Anyone from this side? Mr. Gray and Um, so when this first came up here locally, I had sent to our interim city manager and our deputy police chief kind
of like a a very bare bones kind of policy based on a lot of the concerns. What I'm wondering is as a company who kind of created this and runs all this, do you guys have a department or a team and you given your background of being on municipal government, do you guys
have a team that can come work with our city commissioners and our city staff? Your goal you said is transparency. Um it's obvious that policies need to be enhanced. I'm I'm happy you guys are using two two-factor authentication. Um
there's always hard tokens for those that don't have good cell phone access. Um but my question is do you guys have a team that's focused on municipal policy, state policy, stuff like that that can come help our city leaders make a better
policy. So that way as residents there's a better sense of transparency and security. Making sure that that portal is being utilized. making sure that there's not just generic search terms like investigation being put in and just
I I would like to see Linhaven be the example that you use as hey this is what a good city should do for you residents to feel better about this being in place. Um so I guess I'm going to put the onus on flock as much money as you guys are getting us to pay for this.
What do you have that can help us be that city? A really great great question. Um the short answer is absolutely. I was going to say I can put you in contact with him tomorrow but tomorrow is New Year's Eve. I'm not going to do that. Um but after the holidays, short answer is absolutely. So we have um and I noted on
one of the slides earlier how we've expanded our policy team. Um so our policy team um is really really bright individuals like much smarter than I will ever be. Former uh federal prosecutors, attorneys, etc. that can do
many things. So they can meet uh with Linhaven and share what other cities have adopted throughout Florida from a or throughout the country from a policy perspective. Uh they they can't provide you legal advice. That is your city attorney who's sitting over here. Um but
they can provide you information and point you to the state law if there are laws and how they regulate in Florida around ALPR and data. Um but the short answer is absolutely. Um there can be uh more you know policy created that is
shared with the community transparent outlines usages outlines sharing all of that and we have folks on our team who can support again we want you you all to make that for your community. That's not something that the company wants to produce for you but we absolutely can
share with you best practices what other cities have done. We can connect you with other city attorneys that have developed these policies. Um so long way to say absolutely. >> Any other questions from this side?
>> Yes ma'am. >> This is just a quick question um that I tried to listen to but I might have missed it. Um after the 30 days and the information's deleted, it is then not accessible even by uh law enforcement.
Correct. And forgive me, my mother always used to say I talk way too fast. Um, but yes, if I glazed over that too quickly, my apologies. Um, after the 30-day period, it is hard deleted. We can't no one can access it. It's gone.
>> All right, we'll come to our commission now. We'll start with Commissioner Tinder and go down the road. Commissioner Tender, >> thank you. I only have uh I believe one question. Um, is there in your
thinking any relation to what Mr. Beerclaw was talking about with Amazon? >> The ring cameras is that >> is there a relation between that and Flock? >> So the the short answer is um yes, Flock has a relationship with Ring cameras.
What that is is is that in a scenario in which there is a crime in the area and a local police department and I I believe that there are networks around here, a resident has to opt in to a local
network of Ring cameras to say, "Hey, if a crime happens on my street, you can call me and ask me for my footage." And then what will happen is if if Carrie McCormack says, "I live at 123 Main Street. I got a Ring camera. You let me know if something happens on my street
and you can contact me about it." A resident has to opt into that. So it has to affirmatively say yes, I want to be a part of that network. Uh and those networks have existed for quite a while. It's not just the ring and the um what
is the other one? Other networks that do the same thing. Um, so yes, uh, if someone opts in, they are then sent a request for their footage, uh, through the system and then they have the opportunity to provide that or not. >> Again, critically important. That's an
opt-in. >> That was going to be one of my other question because I think what you're talking about is we have what's called Bayrock >> where you're talking where someone has a Ring doorbell, they can fill something out and the police can access it. My question is with the flock, do they
access the Ring doorbell and actually do um license plate recognition through the Ring camera >> or >> No, my understanding is that Ring cameras cannot do license plate recognition. >> So, all the flock system does is says, "Hey, there's a crime in this area or
someone in this area." And then they can try to access their cameras to see if they can see if it's >> coordinate. Yeah. And and that happens quite a bit. So, you know, communities that will have uh live cameras, whether they're ours or somebody else's, they can coordinate that technology if they
wish. So, they can say, "Hey, ABC123 hit an LPR camera, does the live camera owned by the city of Lynhaven down the street, did they catch anything?" So, you can kind of coordinate those. Um, again, it's up to
uh the PD and the community, but yes, you can coordinate those things if you wish. >> Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. >> No, that's okay. >> That was an important question I had. >> Yeah, no problem. So, what Commissioner Warick is saying, does that relate to this one of the first stories you told about somebody pulling up, coming to the
door of this young girl, >> and yet you said something about Flock identifying the car. Mhm. >> How how did that happen if it was parked out in front of her house? >> So, um she saw the description of the vehicle.
>> So, when she called police, she said, and again, I don't know the exact vehicle it was reported about the vehicle, >> but then they arrested him at her house. >> No, no, no. Not at the house. Nope. Nope. That they uh found the vehicle on the cameras and then I think it was like
2 hours after that they were able to locate the vehicle. Not at her house. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And the police made a stop in a felony arrest. >> Thank you. >> And that's again the important nuance on the plate too because again folks can switch a plate. I mean they do frequently that are used to committing
crime or remove a plate. And that's why the picture of the back with more descriptors on it is important. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> So first of all, thank you for coming. Really appreciate it. Um the audits I
remember on one of the slides you you talked about audits. Is it is it if I understand it right you guys are trying to >> create something where you guys do audits also or is there already something in place where you guys already do audits? >> So the agencies um can can do their own audits.
>> I'm talking about flock themselves. I thought one slide >> No. So what we're doing is we're trying to just clean up the back ends of the audits but the audits themselves are run requested and run by the agencies. >> Okay. That's what I thought. And then access that's all done by the
city also versus who gets gets access. >> Um I was someone called me today and asked me this question. I think I know the answer but >> can someone request that their license plate cannot be read. >> You know what? Um I don't want to give
you a wrong answer on that. My gut says no, >> but I don't want to give you a wrong answer on that. So, let me get back to you on that. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> And then, um, this is something I just learned recently after sitting down with Mr. Switzer about the transparency portal and I went to some of the
websites and, um, I'm a big fan of it and I think we need to do it in Linhaven and all the stats and that. Does that cost anything or is it just we just have to request it? >> Just Nope. You work with our CSA team and they build it out. >> Okay. And then on some of the cities I
noticed that there's a log that you can download. It shows the searches that they've done and some I mean it's limited information but it shows like the date, the time, it has a category and then the reason and I noticed there was a few cities that it was blank and
so my question is can that field be a mandatory field? So if we have it on transparency portal it it's not blank that they have to put something in. reason like the reason why they ran that, right? >> Yeah, that's mandatory. Um, it is. >> Yes. So,
>> before I believe it was you wrote it in um but since I've been at the company, they've now made it a mandatory drop down. So, you have to you click a button and you have to choose the reason and and put one in. >> Okay. So, it's probably an older one
where a bit before that. Okay. >> Right. where I think you could type you would type the reason in. >> Okay. >> So now you're required to choose it. Essentially there's a list of law enforcement activities you're required to choose from. >> Okay. Awesome. Um on the first slide
when you talked about myth and facts. >> Yeah. Um, I'm trying to remember what it said, but it said something about if it was if it wasn't on the the the hit list, does it automatically delete it once it it takes a snapshot of it or still does
it does it still stay in there for 30 days? >> 30 days. >> So, it still stays in there 30 days. >> That's correct. >> Now, something that's ongoing, can they request it to be in there longer than 30 days? >> It would download it. So if um if uh so
if it's not downloaded by PD, it's hard deleted after 30 days. >> Okay. >> Unreoverable. If something happens, missing child crime, the PD has to go in and download that image. >> Okay. And then put it in again for
another 30 days. >> Uh so that if they downloaded the image, >> if they're on the hit list, they stay on the hit list. >> That's right. Okay. >> That's right. >> I got you. >> Yep. Sorry, I didn't mean to. >> Oh, no. These are this is important important conversation. Yeah. >> So, I just want the residents to understand this is kind of the way I'm
looking at it. Um, it's kind of like here is city hall. We we have all kinds of PII information in city hall. You know, people's phone numbers, addresses, date of birth, social security numbers, and that. And we know across the nation there are businesses and organizations
and agencies where information gets leaked out. um it's our our responsibility to make sure we have certain policy and procedures and countermeasures in place to prevent that from happening. I kind of see that same thing with the flock, like you're saying, it's our
information. And so I when I sat down with all the police chiefs, I've actually had conversations about flock with them. And um I think that's one thing we need to do is we need to update our policy and procedures to make sure that we have good policy and procedures
to make sure we protect that information and get the transport transparency portal. I think that's another key thing that we we need in Linhaven. So I think that's all the questions I had. Thank you for coming. Of course >> you answered or asked the majority of
the questions that I had. So um one question I know that 30 days is the standard. Um is there any options that it can be maintained less than 30 days? >> Yes. So um couple couple quick examples. uh
certain states by law have shortened that time period. Um the short answer is yes, you can. The 30 days um in engaging law enforcement across the country that was landed on as a number that
um met the needs of both privacy and and essentially meaning that this information isn't just sitting on a server forever and ever and ever while allowing a PD enough time to perform investigations. So, you know, as we see uh in our communities, sometimes we don't know about a crime until a day,
two, a week or so after. Um, so the per I would say probably frequently, unfortunately. Um, and so the reason that there is a period of time where the local law enforcement can access that information is to allow for them to use
it for ongoing investigation. So the 30 days was kind of like the perfect like not hold on for too long but allowing the PD enough time to access it. But the short answer to question is yes that can be changed. >> Okay. >> Uh thanks again for coming. um what the
mayor said, most of the questions have been asked, but the one I wanted to get I guess uh drill into a little bit more is let's just say hypothetically you've made it very clear and I think we all understand that this is a tool and
it's up to the agency to make sure that it's used properly. So I think the biggest issue let me just ask my question. So if if we at our agency decided we wanted to do some type of internal audit, what
would that look like? >> Yep. Absolutely. So you uh within the existing system that you have access to, you can run an audit, internal audit today. >> Okay. Uh so if right now they could just
go right in there and say, um how many times has this license plate been hit in searches? um if it were No. So if it were on a hot list and it was if it were on a hot list, >> right?
>> So only if it's on a hot list, >> right? >> So theoretic >> that's that is what would come up in the audit. >> So So I guess really you know the reports of like where it's been abused probably the abuser put it on the hot list first and then went and searched
and then searched it multiple [clears throat] times. >> That's right. So again, emphasizing that 6,000 agencies use it properly. You hear about the handful that don't. And you hear about, for example, an officer that that unfortunately tracked, I believe, his ex-girlfriend. He would have had to
put her plate onto a hot list into the system. But a reason that he was caught and held accountable is because it showed up in the audit. >> Right. Right. >> Some I mean, very unfortunate situation, but the system worked in that sense that it it showed up.
>> Right. You mind if I ask real quick? Sure. >> So, but you can do an audit on the searches they do also, right? >> Yes. >> Right. Okay. >> Essentially all the activity like all the human and law enforcement activity with the system. >> Okay. Great. So,
I just want to offer some thoughts that I had. Just so happens that I am a cyber security professional. So, all these terms that you were saying, I was up. >> Yeah. I was I I can confirm that uh the certifications and all that he was
talking about are legitimate. Um but well I think it was Miss Maroy uh said earlier she is correct that in these situations the number one threat is the human factor. In any situation in cyber
security, no matter what it is, the number one threat always is an insider threat, which is someone that works in the organization that has access to a system that abuses it. So, it doesn't matter if it's Flock, it doesn't matter if it's another system in the city, it
doesn't matter if it is a server that Burger King uses. You can use whatever it is, okay? Um the biggest threat is the people that have access to that system abusing it. And so no matter what happens, the main thing
we need to focus on is we need to make sure that we have these audits and they are done. We have to make sure that we enforce the we have to have strong policies and enforce the policies. There's two sides of it. This policy being created, the policy being enforced. So
it's in my opinion that yes, flock absolutely can be abused. Of course it can. But anything can be abused. So we need to make sure that if we continue with flock, the main goal is figuring out the best way to eliminate insider
threat. Um it comes down to risk management. And the number one risk is in this situation would be a police officer um abusing it. And you know like I think I believe it was Ronald Reagan
that said trust but verify. Um that's what we have to do here. Um no matter what happens um so I just want to offer my thoughts on that. >> I think what you're going to find out is the number of things that are in there for a city our size. every one of them
can be audited instead of like, hey, just a certain percentage. I think that's what'll happen. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Oh, that remind that makes me think one more thing. I think the key thing here that I do like hearing tonight is that we're only using the LPRs. So, I think there's been this
misconception that if you have a flock camera, then you have all the capabilities within a flock camera. And that's understandable to to mistake that, but from what I'm gathering is we're only using LPRs. So it' be like the equivalent of if you bought a a
laptop, that doesn't mean that you now have all the capabilities that any laptop computer can do. You have this specific laptop computer that has its capabilities. You know, like Apple may make one type of laptop. That doesn't mean you have all the capabilities of
every Apple laptop. you have the capabilities of that Apple laptop. In this situation, we have the capabilities of an LPR. Like was stated earlier, we don't have the Nova or the drones or whatever. I would personally, I get it. I wouldn't want the drones or the Nova
either. I'm very happy to hear that we only have the LPRs. Um I will continue to fight for only LPRs. Uh unless I'm my mind has changed down the road, but I do I am a fan of the LPRs. So, thanks
Hey Carrie, how you doing? >> Good, Commissioner. How are you? >> I'm good. Um, and thank you for being here coming down to the the warm the warm south Linhaven, even though we're it's cold as hell tonight, but uh um
it's cold. Hey, um you've been at this three months with Flock, right? Your job. >> Yes. >> What did you do? you were you were a councilman in in in um in Cleveland itself, the city of Cleveland or
>> Yes, sir. So, I represented about 35,000 people um in the central business district to the near westside neighborhoods of the city of Cleveland [clears throat] for 10 years. >> And what what else did you do besides that? Just just full-time job. >> That was actually a full-time job. Yep.
>> Way cool. So, Flock has you now? >> Yes. And is is this because there's an up now what we're doing tonight. Is there an uptick in this kind of sense of awareness all over the country right now? >> Yes. Um and honestly, I don't know if my
whole team would feel this way. I think it's a really good thing. Um I so I was a community organizer before I was a council person. So, I work for a nonprofit organization uh on our near westside neighborhoods in English and Spanish um organizing neighborhood residents around safety, economic
development, things like that. I went to 10 block clubs a month every single month for 3 years. Continue to do that as a city council person. I was award- based council person, so I was like specific to my area. So, I'm a big fan of airing out concerns. I think it's the
best thing. Even if you don't leave on the same page, it's a really healthy exercise. So short answer your question is yes and I actually think it's a good thing. >> Yeah, I think that's kind of where we're going. I mean from talking to David, you know, this is this is something where there's there's there's probably a slow
precedence building against Flock. So naturally, Flock would want to, you know, face this head on. And I mean, from what I'm hearing, the best the best thing to go the next step, you're you're public affairs. You're here because we
have an issue in a public perception and you mentioned that there's a policy team and and I I think you would agree that we probably need to take this to the next level. Get your policy team down here because what we need is stronger policies, enforcement and whatnot. And
and if you're offering the help, you know, and do it do it publicly with transparency or whatever. And you know, I mean, that's kind of what I'm taking from it. And I wanted to hear a little bit more about your background because I know I think I think they you know that
you know you didn't you didn't just fall into this and you're not you're not here selling cars. You're here you're here to face something. You know that's a that's a community concern and we are too. So, um um that would be my appeal is that you would take this to the next level
and we'd get some we'd get some policy team in here to to to work with our with our our police and and our city manager and and you know us us here and share the concerns everybody has and put the put the right things in place that that that need to go on. I know Commissioner
Wars, he he gets himself educated on stuff quick. So that that that portal and whatever whatever we need to do and I think that'll make make this uh something that we can all live with if we're going to have it. Um but there's a trend where, you know, you get the right
judge, they they could they could nyx this whole thing, you know, pretty quickly with some with some precedents to stop stuff. So, and so you got you got a fight on your hands. So, I just uh I just wish you the best and appreciate you being here. So, um but that that
would be my appeal is that we ask you to bring your policy team in. So, thanks. >> Thank you, Commissioner. You have my commitment. Um I'll connect, you know, the group to the policy team. Again, really bright individuals uh that can take that next step for sure. But I'll just very quickly, and I'm sorry I don't want to run on your meeting. U the
reason I joined FLAC is because I saw what they did in Cleveland. Um, and I won't get into the story, but at a personal issue, crime issue, and and so, um, it I I've seen, uh, what the the company can do in support of agencies to solve crime. Um, and and to me, that's
really important. Um, so that's why I'm here. >> Well, I appreciate it. >> All right. Any other questions from the commission? >> Thank you very much, >> Mayor Commissioners. And also if I can to the community members who came out I just want to thank them too. I think
this was a really good robust conversation. So thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> All right at this time we'll take a 7 minute break and we'll be back. order at 7:26 p.m.
>> This time we'll have our city attorney's report. >> I have no report. >> All right. Moving on to our consent agenda. >> Approval of minutes 122925. Approval of change order to BCL civil
contractors in the amount of $700 for improvements to the CDBG Minnesota Avenue sidewalk project and approval of the change order to ECSC in the amount of $24,843.28
28 cents for additional work on the phase 1B storm water project >> and mayor and in more depth answer uh that was asked earlier about the ECSE change order on page uh 23 of your packet it has the breakdown so there's
$19,800 of demuck and haul off $20,900 of import clean fill a $6643 type-C storm water inlet and an $1,800 concrete separator sewer for conflict
modification, but there's also $24,843, I'm sorry, $24,600 deduct of the canvas installation credit and a sheet pile credit. So that makes the total change order 24,84328. >> All right. Is there a motion for the agenda? Motion to approve.
>> Second. Right. You call the role. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Po? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson? >> Yes. Motion passed. Uh old business. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 20252502
approving an interim process for the appointment of department heads. >> A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, confirming the procedure by which department heads shall be appointed pursuant to section 21 of the city's charter. >> So, this resolution should not be
unfamiliar to you. I tried to mimic the motion I believe was made and carried at a prior meeting. Uh, this just formalizes that procedure in a way that is a more permanent piece of legislation for staff and the public. >> Any questions for the city attorney?
>> Um, I don't know if uh can we have Harold put up the slide that I have so everyone can see what we're talking about. So, this is the process that we approved back in November that I had briefed about.
So, right, anything you'd like to elaborate on with it? >> Um, I mean, I pretty much said everything at the November meeting. It was pretty detailed. I didn't know if there was anything you wanted to say. >> I will say I didn't have the benefit of the slide, so I went by the minutes and
by the document I was provided of your presentation. I see you have five steps. Mine only has four. I I did try and synthesize it into the steps I thought the commission wanted, but this is your piece of legislation. So, if you'd like to change it, certainly feel free to do so. >> Pretty much mimics the same thing on
this from what I've seen. >> So, basically, it's saying that the city manager can hire and fire. >> Your charter says that this confirms the role of the commission in that process, >> right? Thank you. Uh,
>> so every hiring and firing has to have a advice and consent. >> We're just involved in the hiring process as far as advice and consent. I'm correct. >> That's correct. >> Thank you. >> And that's for department heads, not all employees, just the department heads.
>> Correct. >> All right. Is there a motion for this? Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. Comments from the public Christy M. I guess right now goes back to process is everything you have in
this resolution. Advice should be advise with an S not advice with a C. When you are advising someone that is the commission advising the city
manager, advise and consent. That means you provide your information, what you feel, what you believe is in the best interest
of the city and the taxpayers. And then once you go through that process then you come before this board and you consent with a vote.
What I am seeing is the advice is non-existent. You don't have workshops. I think you've hired an IT person. Mr. Lightfoot did that's no longer here.
I think the planning person that took over for Amanda, I don't think she's here anymore. I don't think your vetting process is working right now for this city. And
it's advice and consent, not advice. Look, you are government and whether you like it or not, your process is supposed to be out in the public.
You're not a Stockholm owned company and you're not a privately held company. You're paid by the taxpayers. And what I continue to see throughout local government
are people that are in positions of now of power without looking for input from the taxpayers or from the elected government. That's a problem because we all are the
ones that pay the bills. I think you need to go back and revise this. All right. Addition of public commentary, Mr. Walker. >> Thank you. Um title reads in process. Um
my question to hear is if this is going to be your interim process, what is going to be the process? How is that approved? Is that put in the charter that way? You have to go through process of putting this process into the
charter. >> Yes. >> Okay. Now, what happens when you have an interim city manager? Does he get this whole process which is for the city manager? He's on the interim.
Will that carry over to the interim city manager once it's in the charter? Will that happen? >> It applies to the hiring of department heads and the city manager or the interim who is standing in his shoes has
that authority to exercise. >> Assume all the process that you're going to put in the charter. >> Yeah, the charter already requires advice and consent. This is to clarify the procedure and the commission's role in it. >> Well, it's coming up on the charter review board. So thank you.
>> Right. Additional public comments from this side. Yes sir. Good evening again. Uh Naylor Bearclaw. Um, I wasn't going to say it and then nice lady brought up some facts of my
constitutional considerations. Um, I'm not a legal law scholar, but that that's my that's my goal in life is to be one. So, I call him Neil G because it sounds gangster, but he's our Supreme
Court justice. and he sat there recently and so did JD Vance and sat there and said you know I because it disgusts me when law enforcement says this to people or anybody else you're a sovereign citizen are you a sovereign citizen they clearly stated recently especially last
year and this year Neil G said it last year JD Vance said it this year that we the people are the sovereign citizens we the people are the ones that are have control we are actually the ones that are government we are the government we've institutionalized you all to be in
this place to make decisions because we've allowed you just that little bit of power. Okay? Ronald Reagan sat there and said it should be a smaller government that we the people by the people for the people, right? He sat there and said that so many times which has been said beyond just our
forefathers. Many people that lived and breathed and died for this country to start off have sat there and said those words. So when you when you sit back and really listen to these people here, you know, I really have not only the dog in the fight with the flock thing and a couple other
things and the ammo and and the child records being found. That's where my dog is in the fight. But what it really is is that I'm a constitutional person. I've I've had mental health evaluations. I've been called a constitutional zealot. And that's because I stand on
one thing. Okay? There's there's a movie Spies Like Us. It's got Tom Hanks in it. Okay? And he sits there and he goes, "What what what makes us all one thing? What what makes us all come together?" He goes, "One one one one. The Constitution. That's what brings us
all together. We play by that rule book or we don't need to play it at all." And it's a quote right there in the movie Bridge of Spies. You should check it out. That one part right there was absolutely wonderful. So just remember one thing. We We are the people. We've
voted you in or they have. They want you to do things constitutionally. Protect their rights. Listen to them. They they we are the sovereign. You are the ones that are elected. And there are checks and balances. There is accountability. And there's more than
one way. So just because you're here doesn't mean that it doesn't get nationally known because I know what's going on here. Because I've had a a new a retired New York cop call me up and go, "What's going on in Linhaven, brother?" I'm like, "What are you talking about? What are you watching?" and he's like, "I was bored." And it
caught my attention. I was like, "Okay." So, he's he's aware of what's going on. He lives in Arizona now. So, it's just those things I just wanted all to bring up. We are the sovereign. You're the elected ones. Just take your time and listen. That's all I'm asking.
>> Hold one second. Can I comment? May I comment to what he just said? >> Sure. >> I hope you come back every damn meeting. >> Where have you been? You need to come to every meeting. I show up >> appreciate everything you have said. >> Thank you, ma'am. And and I show up when
when things need to be said. I seem to pop up and that's what everyone calls goes, "Hey, we need your help tonight." And I show up when I'm requested. >> I would like, you know what? >> Send me your number. I'll request you every two weeks. >> You've got it. I will I will reach out
to you through email. I have it. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Public comments from this side. Evening y'all. Dave Lowry Hawks Landing. I think uh we spoke about this back in November. I think this is a very solid, wellthoughtout temporary policy until
the charter committee is able to formalize the necessary updates to the city charter. What this will do is actually prevent formal appointments by the current or future city managers uh without the advice and consent of the
city commission. Therefore, a interim or a city manager can't say, "Okay, Bob, you're going to be our new department director of public works and then come to you guys and say, "Hey, commission, I need you to approve a pay raise for Bob because I've promoted him to this keep
leadership position." So this inherently forces the commission to be completely involved with that. I would actually argue you need to do it for both the department heads and the deputy department heads because the deputy department heads are a single heartbeat or a lightning bolt away from being the
department head. uh your leadership team is your leadership team and if they're wellqualified good people, there's nothing in the world that says the commission shouldn't be able to be advised and approve those and approve the promotion with a clear direction of
what they're going to get paid and what their benefits are going to be for that support and service. So my hats off to Commissioner War for developing this. I think it's a great interim solution and I think it will dovetail very nicely into the future charter updates. Any
other public commentary from this side? >> Right. If you'll call the vote. >> Commissioner Warick, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peoples, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson,
>> yes. Motion pass. [snorts] Right. Discussion and possible approval following your advice and consent and the hiring of the new chief of police, Mr. Lewis Blanchard for the city of Linhaven. >> Yes, sir. So, you all got to meet the three candidates and and conduct one-on-
ones. Um, we had some great applications uh come in. Our three finalists, I believe, were all outstanding. However, Mr. Blanchard had set himself apart from the others. Um, in conversations with him, I feel that he is the best fit for our agency at this time and he has some
great ideas that he will be bringing um to address a couple of things. Mr. Blanchard is not under investigation, nor has he ever been under investigation for $53,000. There is a new story that you can Google about that with the sheriff that that he worked for at the time. The integrity of Mr. Blanchard um
went to dinner with all three candidates and he told a story of he actually was about 6 weeks ago they had a uh officer involved shooting um in Richmond County. He was stopped at the stop sign talking to the sheriff and he got his foot off the brake, rolled through and actually
hit a car. His fault. He did the accident report. Um but per policy, he was due a one-day suspension. So he suspended himself um as part of this. So the integrity of Mr. Blanchard is pretty outstanding. Um I think that he is going
to do great things here. Um he's had three police officers work under him that recently became a police chief. So, he cares deeply about growing the officers. Um, and I think recruitment and retention is a hot topic for us right now. So, with that being said, I
believe that Mr. Blanchard is our next chief of police. His start date, if approved, will be February 9th. >> All right. Any additional discussion from the commission? So I just want to ask some questions for the advice part of this is um can you uh
briefly walk us through the criteria used to evaluate the c candidates and why Blanchard best met those criteria? Yes sir. So kind of hit on that just a second ago about the different um integrity. I believe that all three finalists that you met um brought different characteristics and I believe
that all three um would have brought a lot of integrity to the department or to the agency. However, the way that he presented himself, the way that he gave stories of his career, the way that he had plans in his 30, 60, 90day presentation in his interview is what
set him apart from the the other two. >> Okay. Um, when he went in front of the panel, um, what did the panel have to say and their recommendation? >> They felt their opinion was he was the strongest of the three. Matter of fact,
they got some notes from Mr. Blanchard that they were going to take back to their agency because they thought they were some good ideas that they could talk to their command staff about implementing as well. Um but his command presence was much much more noticeable than the other two and he definitely gave the impression to the police chief
panel that he could be fixed. >> Okay. Um [clears throat] what risk did you consider with this appointment and how do you believe those risks are mitigated? So no matter no matter which chief pick um we're going to have risk with the
public perception the agency and the city right now is going through a a negative perception Perry weather system Facebook post it garnered more negative post about having lightning detection in parks for our city than it did positive. So anything
that we do is very scrutinized today. So there's a huge risk on how the new police chief is going to mitigate um the negative public perception. I feel that he can do that best. >> Okay. Um and uh my last one is what qualities in
this rea recommendation give you confidence the department will remain stable through potential leadership transitions? I believe that his experience with the retention and recruitment, he has some great uh recruitment ideas, some great retention ideas, but the fact that he
groomed three people to become a police chief shows that he wants his his officers to grow, his officers to even if they leave here and they go advance their career, that's what he cares about. And I believe that that's what he can be best for our officers to do. We have a lot of young ones that have a lot
of time left in their career. And if they can work under that, maybe he can even groom the next chief here when when he retires from. Okay. >> And I think that's all the questions I had. >> Right. Any other questions for discussion? >> I do.
>> Um, one of my first questions is I I've been the phone's been ringing off the hook. How did we come to this person? How did we come to the top three and all of that? Um,
we all know we have a problem in Lin Haven. There's corruption in Lin Haven. Who knows best about the corruption in Lyn Haven than somebody that's from here? Somebody who knows the players.
I wonder somebody coming in and and I had a great interview with him, by the way. I think they all interviewed quite well. Um, they kind of buzzed right across the board for me. All very much the same. Um, and it's certainly no
disrespect to Mr. Blanchard at all. Um, but we had four people with more experience and more education right here in Bay County that worked in law enforcement that didn't even get a phone call.
So I I have to ask that you know how does that happen but um I personally and I'll just get to the chase um I personally feel that the appointment
or approval of a new police chief before before the we get the the final applications for the city manager um is premature. Sure. I think it should wait until after the
city manager is appointed and we know I think Jennifer is it January 6th that the applications are due in eight. Okay. >> So we have until January 8th. Mr. Infingers keeping the ship arrive. I
mean it's floating. We're not drowning. >> So I would start by saying I'm sorry that you feel the way of rupture in Zimland Haven. I do not feel we have a single police officer in our agency that's corrupt. I don't feel that we have a single employee that's corrupt. So, I'm sorry you feel that there is
corruption in the city. I do not feel that way. Uh we had 43 applicants. We narrowed that down to 11 uh via phone interviews. Those 11 were then conducted and no, not all of them were called. There were some on there that they might have had been a PhD candidate or might
have been higher education, but their experience was not up to par with the others. There is a candidate on there that I believe he is a PH candidate. He is nowhere near experienced as Mr. Blanchard or the other two chief candidates that we had for finals. Um we had those 11 in in person virtually. We
had myself, Chief Smith from Panama City and Miss Hodes. We interviewed those 11. We narrowed that down to three applicants. Those all came in person and you got to meet all of those. >> And and and why didn't you pick or at least call back anybody local? We had
local people interview. >> You did? Well, like the police chief of Springfield, he didn't receive a call back. >> No, ma'am. I I did not feel that he was as qualified as some of the others that did. >> Okay.
Thank you. >> I say something. Um I I feel the opposite as far as waiting. I think I'm really reluctant to say this and I and I'll premise it with this because I know police officers and men
are going to watch this. I want them to know that I have confidence in them and I know we have a good police department, but you probably agree after the last firing that there's concerns about what type of culture was set in the police department.
And and this is no, like I said, this no disrespect to anybody in there, but and and I've experienced this when I was in the military, and I've seen it in the military where you have to fill in for a position temporarily until they get the permanent person. And what happens is
that person gets in there and they're able to sustain daily administrative operations, right? Administration operations. But what happens is they get put in a holding pattern and it's like the permanent changes that they want to make, the certain standards, long-term
standards they want to set, they're very reluctant to do that because they know another person's coming in because the last thing they want to do is change something and then another person comes in has a different perspective, different leadership management style and they want to change it a different
way. And and that's not good for a department, especially a police department. And so, um, that's why I think it's imperative that we get someone in there so they can get in there and put in those long-term solutions and cultural changes that we need.
>> And then what happens though if the interim city manager isn't Chris? Then then the police chief has a new boss. >> Well, that happened with our fire chief. >> I'm sorry. >> That happened with our fire chief. He
just started and we had a new city manager. So, I mean, it's Mhm. >> It's the way the It's the way the cookie crumbles. >> I'd like to also go back to, you know, talking about local local candidates. Miss Tinder, your words where I want someone that can't
even spell Lin Haven cuz they've never been here. And so, all three finalists were from out of town. I feel that that has been a key aspect of what people wanted of something from the outside or someone from the outside. So, now all of a sudden, we're reversing our thoughts
on that. Um, and not that that's what was playing into a decision. However, it just worked out where the three finalists were from outside the city. Your words were, >> "I want a candidate that's never been here." >> And they all interviewed very well. >> I agree. They all interviewed very well.
It was hum right across the board all the way. And I don't have a problem with that. It's not against Mr. Blanchard. He You say he's a man of great integrity. If he's got great integrity, then he
will set policies and he will set things to make things. >> Mr. Blanchard has also >> from Mr. Remy, >> he's been watching the meeting tonight. >> He's been giving his input as well on the flock cameras, for example. He's very knowledgeable about flock. I think some of you probably talked to him about
that during your one-on- ones. >> Um, >> so the news got out. I think you were all copied on the email from the reporter from Richmond County last night. Richmond County News. I don't know what their channel is, WC EY or something like that. They posted the
story that Mr. Blanchard was the finalist here and it was set to be approved tonight. There were over 800 reactions when I went to bed last night and comment after comment of congratulations of he's going to do great things. Lyn Haven's going to be lucky to have them. There was not one
negative comments on that Facebook post, which to me speaks for his integrity um of of what he is and who he has been in in law enforcement. >> Well, like you say, if he's if he's uh got that kind of integrity, he will make the changes that need to be made. And by
the way, when I say corruption, I don't mean that our police officers are corrupt. I don't mean that that uh the people who work here are corrupt, but we have corruption in Bay County and we have plenty of it in Lin Haven. And that's what I'm talking about.
>> I understand. But when employees watch our meetings and they hear our elected officials who are supposed to support us say that there's corruption in the city. It does not sit well with them, they >> they come to work every day. >> Police officers work 12 hours. Some of them are working 16s right now because
they're short-handed. So when they sit here and hear corruption, it does not sit well with them. >> I understand that. But I'm going to tell you this. I have calls from employees. I have employees who come to the cafe that want to meet in person telling me those exact things. So I mean
the truth is something that kind of blows in the wind. It depends on who you're talking to, but I um I just wanted to say that it's nothing against Mr. Blanchard. I would support him completely and hope that he is a man of integrity and he makes the changes that
would need to be made. >> All right. Anything for advice and consent? >> Well, thank you, Commissioner Wart for asking all those questions because uh those were good. Um and then the main
question I had was if you could lay out step by step by step what you did and you did. Um, but I think one thing that really stuck out to me is that one, before he even knew he was a finalist, he came down here and scouted the area,
you know, just to to get an idea of what uh on his own dime. Came down here to check out Linhaven to see what it was all about. He was walking around at um at our Winter Wonderland event. Didn't tell anybody that he was a finalist.
just wanted to, you know, meet people and see what Lin Hmon was all about. I thought that was pretty awesome. Um, and one thing that really stuck out to me is that, uh, I asked him like what experience he has writing law enforcement policies. He's
helped multiple uh he's helped multiple organizations get accredited. But one of the things that he added too is that he also is very big on uh in that process looking for ways to get grants because as we all know city I think Mr. Hines is
the one that says this all the time, so he's not here tonight, so I can't give him credit uh face to face, but he always talks about how uh cities are run on grants. And that's true. Like I want to say something like 15% of our budget
is from tax dollars. Everything else is through grants or or some other type of funding. and commissioner the next morning after he left when he was sitting in the airport he emailed massages and I about a grant that he had found so that we could turn over to River so that she could submit for so he
is very wellversed on grants and what they can do to your department >> great thank you and um one thing that also stuck out to me uh in my interview is that um he's very big on
to be transparent You don't wait for someone to question anything. You put the story out there first. You just let people know what's happening so that there's no signs of corruption or signs of hiding anything. He's very big on
putting the story out up front and then let people ask questions about it rather than make it look like you're hiding something, which is a big deal to me. Um, but yeah, like like you said, the all three candidates are so solid. I mean, it was really impressive.
>> Commissioner Perno. >> Ready for a motion? >> Yes, sir. >> Oh, let's make the motion that we that we I' I'd like to approve Lewis Blanchard and let's move forward in the hiring process.
>> Is there a second for that? Second it. All right. Comments from the public. Yes, sir. Good evening. I wanted to take a chance to address two things. One is the hiring process and two are some comments that
were made by you, Miss uh Miss Tinder. Um I don't I've never seen you with a a badge on a police badge. Are you you're not a police officer, right? Okay. I don't think so. Um, one thing that I appreciated was number one, this all was
was very clear as to how this process was going to happen. There was going to be a panel of qualified individuals who were going to aid the city manager in narrowing down the candidates, etc. to determine the qualifications
um and proficiency specifically. Um, and [snorts] that was that happened. Um, obviously there were some there were some things that were looked at from the from the personnel side of the house. it sounds like to make sure that this individual is the right candidate. Um, so I just want to say thank you for not
making this decision in a vacuum. You could have just said, "Nope, this is this is my guy or this is my gal." And that didn't happen. Um so I I appreciate the fact that there was uh not only a panel but a panel of qualified
individuals who also provided that advice although they can't provide that consent. Um I I too saw a a Facebook I think it was the uh some local news station uh where where this individual is from and it was just positive comment
after comment after comment. I'm like, man, well, looks like they they made the right decision. So, um, if anything, I think that that kind of gives us a little bit of satisfaction of, you know, the process worked. Um, the fact of, you know, should it happen now or should we
wait until this person or that person, you know, I I've heard this I've seen this come up and it's not just about the police chief. It's about, you know, this this legislation or that legislation. We should wait until the the recall election is over with. we should wait until this is over with. You know, my
response to that is this. Commissioner Pero is going to turn out. He's not running again. He's done. He's a lame duck commissioner. Okay? So, if if that's the case, then he should not be able to vote on anything, right? We
should wait till his replacement gets elected. Okay? So, that's that's the line of thinking that we've got to do. Look, the city's business has got to has got to go on. Okay? And I got 30 seconds left. I just want to address those comments, Miss Tender. I got I I I'm you know, I'm a fan of yours and I and I and
and we agree on a lot of things and I I want to respectfully disagree with you on the fact that this this local versus not local. Um I I've heard it time and time again. We've got to hire outside of Linhaven. We got to get outside of Bay County. We got to get outside the state
of Florida if we can, right? And what did we do? We got a cat from Georgia coming down. Now we want to hire local. That's That's frustrating. Let's pick pick which way we want to go. Appreciate it.
>> Thank you. Yes, sir. >> Brief. Um [clears throat] I have family including my father-in-law, sister-in-law, a niece, and a nephew up in Augusta, Georgia. And I've reviewed the qualifications of all three of the finalists. I've actually spoken to three of the commissioners personally and
asked for their impressions and feedback on the interviews. I actually asked my own family what they thought of Mr. Blanchard. They love the guy. Father-in-law knew him. My sister-in-law, they they all spoke highly highly of him. He's got a reputation up there of being a guy of
the community. Uh being involved, getting out there and not just lip service, but actually shoe leather express, shaking hands, engaged with the community. Uh you guys and ladies all know the dynamics in the police force right now. Short staffed. We need to
look at the pay scales and make sure that we are compensating appropriately. Uh the deputy chief here, Steve Infinginger, is a great guy. He's a great leader, but he needs a wingman. I really do believe Mr. Blanchard is
um I fully support him. I hope you lady and gentlemen do tonight as well. Uh and I hope he gets in and is able to really step in and hit the ground running. We could use a fresh breath of air and leadership. I think he and Steve Mfinger will be a very good tag team. Thank you
for your consideration. >> All right. Yes, ma'am. And then Mr. Walker. Thank you. >> So in the state of Florida, I assume you have to have certain
certifications. Does he have those certifications? >> So is that first day February 9th, he will actually be at GF Coast doing his transition uh course? >> Okay.
You know, I guess the thing is again you wanted this public meeting on the 30th, second meeting of the month. It would have been nice. I kind of expected Mr. Blanchard to be here. So the citizens
and taxpayers could ask him questions. I I mean, why why would that not be appropriate? Would you like for me to answer now or when you get you >> you you're the interim city manager. You want to take up your answer whenever you want to.
>> So all three candidates that came down gave kudos and that kudos to Miss Hodgees on how the interview process was set up. >> They all three had been through other other application processes before this process was one of the smoothest and well thought out that they had done. Um
they enjoyed being able to go before the department heads, the panel of city managers. >> I'm going to stop you for a second here. they're interviewing, so of course they're going to say nice things. That's what what interviewers interviewees do.
I I still think that you may feel like the process was well defined, but the fact that you've hired somebody that doesn't have his certification and he's not here at a public meeting.
So, I guess that's a little concerning. >> He will have plenty of public outreach meetings whenever he gets here. We will >> Mr. Walker. I don't know why this is in a rush to judgment now. Um,
come January January 20th, you're going to be changing possibly your government very heavily. You're presently missing a city manager,
two directors, a chief of police. chief of police. When I had a discussion with him in front of the city manager, he told me that he is really, my words, not here to
serve and protect the citizens. He was here to protect the city manager and vice versa. And it was demonstrated how well she protected him. It took you quite a while to read
through. You didn't fire him. You allowed him to retire. That's an easy way out. You allowed the previous city manager do
the same thing. You didn't fire him. He resigned. I don't understand with what's coming up January 20th with a possible change of government that the number three man in the
government is going to be appointed now when he gets a new boss if they don't get along. Is it going to take him seven years or her to get rid of not get rid of but let go of this choice tonight? I
think you might take a look at waiting. You've waited long enough until you get an possibly a new mayor, possibly, no disrespect, and get a new city manager, a firm city
manager. seems to be a rush especially tonight because this was we were not supposed to be here tonight. Commissioners voted not to have a second meeting. All of a sudden at the woodworks comes a special meeting. The two items on it are
critical to our government. I would think twice about this. Oh yes. My question was also man is not certified state of Florida. Is that correct? He's not a resident of state of Florida,
right? Okay. Presently, has he read the city employment and the salary and everything and he's agreeing to this? >> I have a question. >> Yes, ma'am. >> What you started the conversation with
was that you said you, Mr. Remy, Chief Remy, and the >> city manager. >> We're all together and he said, >> "Pardon." >> Oh, he said, "Miss Gainer." He Okay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay.
>> No, I thought you were talking about something else and I wanted to make sure I heard you right. >> Quite an earful. >> Thank you. >> And he she purposely came over to listen to the conversation I was having with the chief. >> That was a result of it. I didn't like that.
>> Thank you. Mr. Bearclaw. Good evening again, Naylor Barclaw. So, we're going to pick a police chief. Five elements of the First Amendment. Five elements. Great question. That was probably be my
first question if I was interviewing anybody in law enforcement or anybody that was going to enforce the law. Five elements, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, petitioning for grievances to your government, right? Freedom of assembly, right? Oh, the other one big
one's freedom of press. So, those big five things. Now, I'm going to lay some compliments. I had I had two officers um my little YouTube channel, which is just starting because I'm I'm finally taking all my videos that I've been building up. I'm going to post them. I'll send you the link you can share with everybody when I get them up. Uh I was
over child support office and they were like oh no you can't video record. Oh no. I was like oh my god. And I was like I'm not going to stop. They're like our policy says you can audio. I was like that sounds like wiretapping. Sounds like a setup. Um cops came out and they literally told him and said you're
messing up. Told the manager of the building you're going you're going to hand this guy a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Got it on video. I was like these guys are great. They they wanted me out trespassing. You said you can't trespass them. So, at least those officers got it right. So, whatever you're building on a foundation of, at
least you got two guys, right, that have got it straight. And those two guys when I post a video and you see their names, those are the two guys you probably need to go ahead and be like, they need to be doing the job out here training your other officers. And new guy, I don't
know. We will find out how he feels about people with cameras. Uh how he deals with the freedom of speech. Uh how he'll deal with people being in here and say anybody goes, "Well, you're out of line. You you can't be in here anymore." And he sits there and says, "Absolutely not.
I will not allow you to do that." That's that's what's going to determine what kind of person he really is. Oh, he suspended himself. That's great. Anybody can do that. But let's really see if he's really going to sit there and stand on that Constitution, stand on that oath. I've got all the books at home
with all my everything from the federal level to what requires state level employees to do and bear an oath to. And therefore, if you don't do that, by the way, that's treasonous. And you want to know one other thing, there was that saying, politics stink. You know why they said politics stink? That's because
we used to put them hanging in trees or put them in the stockade in the middle of the city for everybody to look and go, this is what we did. Or they would drag them out and tar and feather them. I mean, and that was back when they said, "Oh, these were civilized times. Oh, we're civilized society." That was civilized back then. So, I'm just
pointing that out that there are elements to the Constitution that everybody needs to remember when he steps into the door. I promise you, if I ever meet the man, which I will, I'm going to ask him the first five elements of the first part of the Constitution. And I'm going to see where he stands at
right there in the And I want to do that with video, and I'm going to put it all out there. So, and by the way, I work with a group of people that we go ahead and find out the history of these guys and if they're bad, we're going to put them out there. >> Thank you. >> Yes, sir.
>> Good evening, Commissioner. Zach Dwaller. Um, so I I've managed personnel for 15 years now. I mean, I probably have managed anywhere from 3 to 5,000 people at this point. Um, I've trained
managers. I've trained leaders. I've watched transitions go through at least probably a hundred projects. And I can tell you, you know, Commissioner War was right when he said that in a vacuum, you you will have chaos. um for a long
time. I think the the police department needed direction. Uh I don't think it got it with the last police chief. Um I can also say that uh you know I I've worked in Augusta, Georgia on projects. I've worked with the PD up there. I've worked with Richmond County. Um they do not have an easy job. There is a wealth
disparance up there that causes more crime than we could imagine down here. Uh they are right on a state border. You can take a bridge and go into South Carolina and disappear. um you know there's there's a lot that goes on there. So that that job is no easy task. Um so certainly someone who
has worked in that environment has the fortitude to be able to understand our complications down here. What I would like to see in a leader and and I do through this process wish that we had at least gotten uh video
recordings of your interviews. I would have loved to have seen them. Um, I would have loved to have seen as as somebody who drives through Linhaven every day, how are certain things going to be handled? I would have myself loved to have submitted uh questions um to get
answered by each of the interviewees. Um there there's another thing there's a number of things I think we could have done to have been transparent uh as we say we all want. But at this point, we are selecting an individual. Um, I don't know everything about his background, but but certainly I've talked to several
people and I I don't think that he's going to do a bad job for us. I hope he gets in and I hope he does the right thing. I did want to touch on something that that Miss Tinder said and uh the inter city manager, Mr. Lightfoot said. Um, we had a finance director that
submitted FBI testimony that stated that there was employee intimidation, that stated that checks were falsely signed by the former city manager, that stated that there were funds misplaced, that stated all these things. And as we know,
the former mayor here was convicted of a felony for lying to the FBI. Yet this individual was never even questioned on whether or not she was telling the truth. So to say that there wasn't corruption with inside this building
is false. So not not to all the the the regular employees here, they're fantastic. I have talked to so many of them and and they are great people looking for solid leadership. But I do hope that this gentleman comes in and he is ready to get his hands dirty with
everything that has happened since Michael because it's not over and it shouldn't be. >> Yes, ma'am. Jerry Parker, right place. Um, Chris, I'm going to have to correct you. Um, and this was sent to every one of you.
Blanchard sheds light on 53K missing from safe and why he's running for sheriff. This was in March of 2026. I have to correct you on that. >> He's not under investigation. It was not he that was under investigation. he was the one that was part of the investigation on the sheriff,
>> right? I understand that. However, his dialogue and his comments in here are very telling, very telling. With that being said, the one thing I want to state too, corruption,
the corruption from it, guys. He stole from the city and y'all just let him bring it back. That is not a good thing. That is not a good thing. I'm sorry.
There has to be accountability in this city and it has to happen soon because this is this is just going on forever. Yes. Do we need another police chief? Yes. But personally, in my
opinion, I think we should wait until after the recall um election. That is my opinion. Thank you. >> Can I answer the it thing? So, I'm trying to remember when the whole thing happened, you guys did an
investigation and you sent it up to um Larry Bassford. Larry Bassford determined not to prosecute. Correct. >> Correct. So, >> so we can't there's nothing else we can do. We did everything we were supposed to do. We sent it up and the and the
state attorney decided not to prosecute. What else can we do? >> I understand that, Jamie. However, it's still corruption. He's still it's still theft from the city. And even though Larry Bassford decided not to prosecute,
it was still corruption within the city. Regardless of whether Larry Bassford said, "No, I'm not going to do it." Well, that was his decision, but his decision wasn't a good decision. >> Right. But you were saying we need to do something. We did everything we could. We can't. There's nothing else we can
do. No, I'm not saying that y'all had to do something about it. I'm just saying that he made the wrong decision and that was corruption within the city. I'm not saying y'all had to do something about it. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yes, sir.
I'm just wondering about the the process here and I'm not an expert on this, but if I look at this as an example of what happened in the last city commission meeting where you all voted 4 to one on flock and it didn't seem like any of you
knew really what flock was. I may be wrong like there there in that situation it was missing like a a meeting where you say hey let's talk about the good things about flock let's talk about how flocks helped let's talk about how bad
this sucks and hey what about the fourth amendment has there been a meeting where you guys have gotten together and each of you said hey man these three guys are awesome but you know we have some big questions about this or that or the other thing that the public can actually
go to and express their ideas as well. It seems like this shouldn't be the first time. We're hearing from you what you think about this about the candidates and maybe there's been something but there I've noticed a trend where it's kind of like uh we're voting
on this and and you're saying what it is but it's not we don't know what the story is. We don't know what the the story hasn't been explained. So, I just wonder if I'm missing something or if there if you guys have actually met with this and talked about each candidate.
>> Oh, mayor, I'm pretty sure the story has been explained about the past five commission meetings. At some point, a commissioner or a resident has asked what's the process. We've explained the 43 applicants to 11 to three to inperson interviews to oneon ones. So, I feel
that we have shared the story numerous times of how this >> process I know that's I know the process. I don't know how each of you feels about what was good about the about candidate A. What was the worst thing about candidate A? What was the best thing and the worst about candidate
B? What potential does A have? Where's the the the critical thinking that the public's able to see other than, yeah, we kind of like this guy. Yeah, he was the best of the three. Yeah, we had a vetting process. I want
to know the story of what the meeting was like and if there was one about like surely of five people there was someone who came up and said hey you know not this guy or maybe there was a someone from the public who could have been at that meeting and said yeah you guys are
right this is a you that's missing that critical thought process I believe is missing and I would like to see that thank you >> let me just say this if I could remember I went over the whole process about vice and consent Remember that I went November step by step and we
just approved it tonight also. Step by step what's advice and consent because it's not up to us to select the the police chief. City manager selects the police chief. We do advice and consent and in the end do we have confident that
this person will do an excellent job for our city. That's our job. >> Yeah. Well, so what do you So is the only advise and consent that happens in this meeting or is there something that's more robust that could happen so that we know cuz like you should be
telling us, yeah, we like this guy, but man, we're kind of worried about this 53,000. There's nothing. >> We don't select the we don't select them. >> I'm not asking you to select them. I'm asking you to research it and to critically think about it and to let us know what you think. >> Oh, yeah. I think when I look at Chief
Blanchard's record, he has a phenomenal record. If you look at the experience, the knowledge, I mean, this doesn't we are extremely lucky to have somebody that has this much knowledge and experience. And I I feel very lucky to
get somebody like this. Like I'll I'll ask I you know one of the questions I asked him I said my one concern with you is you're coming from a very big vast department with a huge budget much more bigger than ours. I think his was over
$80 million budget how what how is your leadership management style going to be when you come here because you're going to have to change your leadership management style a little bit. And his answer was, you know, I I oversee over 700 police officers.
And he goes, you know, I I try to get to know as many of them as I possibly can, but in the end, I get to know the best police officers and then the ones towards the bottom, and I don't typically get to know the ones in between because there just so many of
them. He said, "I'm looking forward to coming to a smaller police department so I can sit down one- on-one with police officers and mentor and guide them. And I'm here to tell you he doesn't need this job. He does this because he's
passionate about what he does." And that's the impression I got from him. He's awesome. My confident level is up here that he's going to do an awesome job for the city. I I believe I believe that could be true
with him and I but I don't know him. But I think that it would be nice and it would be very educational for the public. You had a meeting and you may feel that way. Pat may not feel that way. He may like
Montana guy or South Carolina guy for better than this. And I would like to hear that discussion. That's all that I'm saying. May I say something? >> Yes. >> I just want to say when interviewing the guy from Montana,
um, he had a great sense of humor, and I always appreciate that. But he said, uh, you can't live in Montana real long if you're a people person. And he also said right up front in my interview with him that he when he started there, he gave
them a two-year limit. He said, "I'm here to straighten this department out in two years and then I'm gone." And he has family all over Texas and everywhere. So, um, he just he said, "You can't be a people person and live in Montana." Um,
for me, they all interviewed very much the same. I do have to say, um, well, obviously I've already aired my concerns about Chief Blanchard. I will give him my full support even if I don't vote for him. But uh he'll have my full
support and I hope that he is everything everything that um those who like him that he is everything that they say. >> And to Mr. Switzer's point, um,
what you're asking probably has not been documented or recorded to be made public, but we all did have a chance to follow up with Mr. Lightfoot and give our input, ask various questions, of course, meeting with the candidates, but then also, um, I know post interview, I
was able to speak with him and Miss Hodgeges and just share, you know, what my concerns were, what I thought their concerns might be. Hey, what are your concerns about this candidate? Here, here's my input. this is what I think. Um, and so we were we did have those conversations and ask, you know,
additional questions from what we saw on the resume or um what we maybe didn't get from the candidate that we thought they might have had information about. So, no, it wasn't recorded, you know, wasn't taken down in notes, per se, but those conversations did happen at least
between um ourselves and the uh and the staff. So, those did happen. Yes, sir. James Fence, 410 East Second Street. You need to get on about hiring a guy tonight. It took y'all three and a half years to fire the last one. This whole
community come up here week after week and a half for three and a half years. And we're here tonight because y'all didn't do your damn job. We need to hold you responsible. You told us you going to hire somebody. You told us how you was going to interview them. Y'all selected them. get on with the hiring them. You know, we going to hold you
responsible if you done if you if he's wrong, we going to jump on you the first meeting. And that's the way it should be. You know what I'm talking about is this whole deal is get on with the taking the man in here because it damn sure can't be any worse than what we had. And we fought tooth and nail to get
that last one gone. and and we spent thousands of dollars for the them to tell y'all that y'all could fire him after what he did. And a lot of that was you mayor. You know, you you tuck up for him tooth and nail through the whole deal. You and the city
manager, Mr. Walker told me says the last two city managers resigned. Is that what he said? Because I thought I was here when they fired Vicky Gainor. They fired Vicky Gainor and then you voted against firing Vicky Gainor which
give her 10 weeks additional pay by you voting that way. So when you give these contracts don't give them contractors out like hell y'all getting about like hiring a a football coach when I work with somebody all those years if I did a good job that today I
could come back tomorrow. So you get them and let the man perform, do his job. But it y'all sitting here tonight, it's like an eighth grader trying to find out who's going to be the uh the prom queen. I mean, we need to get on
with it. Do something. Do your job because I don't know how y'all still here after this last deal between Remy and Vicki and you, Mayor. You hired another attorney. You you fighting the recall. We had about 6,000 signers. 40 something hundred this last
time. We lost 1,800. You filed another motion today. And and that's fine. But the 20th we're going to have election, I think. And uh we don't need to it don't matter about the election on the 20th. It's what y'all going to do tonight. Do your job. Get it over here. We've been
here 3 hours and y'all done 45 minutes worth of work. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. There's a lot to unpack here after listening to all these people. Um, first, if you don't do something now, you're going to be directionless. And the worst thing you can do to an
organization is give them somebody that's temporary and say, "Y'all just hang around for another 6 months while we decide what we're going to do." That's the worst thing you can do. I'm sure that Mr. Lightfoot's struggling with that somewhat with the with the city department heads right now because he's interim. And this the same thing
with the police. You want to delay it to the recall? Well, the only if now I don't think the recall should happen. I'm very for Mayor Nelson. I don't think the recall has valid grounds. But should the recall happen, the only other person that can be elected just said that he
wholeheartedly is behind hiring this particular person as police chief. So the recall will accomplish zero. Zero. Now the process, y'all went through the process. Every citizen out here shouldn't shouldn't feel like they need to interview the police the prospective
police chief. That's not the process. We voted y'all in. We put our full faith and confidence in you and y'all don't all agree, which is great. Means that you're looking at it from different directions. The process works. I trust that the group of y'all have looked at it. Y'all have interviewed him and you've going to come to a decision on
whether to hire him or not. And I'm going to trust that process. I don't agree with all of you, but I don't have to. That's the process. And I think y'all are going to represent the citizens well in this. Now, that said, the last thing I want to say is to you, Commissioner Tinder, I'm tired of these
blanket there there's corruption statements. If there's corruption and people are coming to you with corruption, it's your ability, your job, your duty to take it up and take care of it, go up, go up the ladder to whoever you need to do to solve this corruption.
Don't make vague corruption accusations. I would like to hear specifics. If if there's corruption that you're aware of, deal with it. Don't come up and just say, "Oh, the people out here are corrupt. Oh, well, these are corrupt." I'm tired of that. I am tired of these vague things saying, "Oh, there's
corruption everywhere." Prove it. >> Go to go to the state attorneys. Like somebody says here, they decided they're more qualified than the state attorney to decide what corruption is. That's not accurate. The state attorney, that's his job. That's what he's there for. If he says there's not corruption, then
there's probably not corruption. Um, but I'm tired of these vague corruption accusations. It smears the citizens of Linhaven. It smears the the employees of Lin Haven and you as our elected official should be advocating for us.
And if they're coming to you, employees or whoever, and saying, "Oh, well, this is corrupt." You need to take it up the ladder and and don't just stop. You need to take it up and and advocate for them. Um, just saying something. Oh, there's corruption. That solves nothing but just gives everybody a black eye. I'm sorry.
Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Right. Yes, sir. I think you all are kid uh have kids up here. I think everybody has kids. So, you'll get this analogy when your kid wants something in the store or at home.
dessert before dinner, whatever, and you tell them no, it's the end of the world for them, right? You didn't get them what they wanted. That's all they're gonna remember for however long they're going to remember that. Kids, usually it's not not long. But I think that's kind of what goes on in this community.
A lot of members of the community, if if they don't get what they want, they're pretty pissed off about it. I've been there. That's been me. I advocate for stuff I want, and if I don't get it, I get pissed off. Normal. It's part of being a human. Um, but if you do the
research, if you spent the time looking up Lewis Blanchard, there's tons of articles out there. If you read through the article that talks about the money in the safe, like I I don't know what the reading comprehension in Bay County is. I've never looked up that stat, but I read the damn article four times in a
row sitting back there listening to people talk, and I can't see it any other way than what it is. They had the previous sheriff had some money and they turned it over to the county and for the whole time that he was the deputy chief for four years. I think it said the
money wasn't in the safe. He checked the safe. That was part of his responsibility. And then all of a sudden when these allegations come forth, he he says that it was never in there. I there is not a candidate that I think that you interviewed or you guys all interviewed
that is more of an opposite of what just left than this guy there. I get it. We're all battered here. We're all disappointed in what's gone on here. I've lived here five and a half years. I'm an outsider. I'm not from Bay
County. Everybody knows that. I know what this guy's walking into. He's got a hell of a job ahead of him. But I have faith in these commissioners and the mayor even to put advice and consent in the ear of the interim city manager to make the best choice possible. And I
don't see how everything that's being said here is you're not even giving the guy a chance. let him come in and show what he can do for our community. Because you sit here every meeting and complain over and over about transparency and wanting a better
community and wanting everything out in the open and we want this and we want that. I want want want. Well, now you're getting what you want. You're getting an outsider who's all about transparency. He's a public information officer. He
will not lie or cheat or whatever for anybody. He said that. Those are his own words from articles you can look up. And it's still not good enough cuz he didn't give me the damn cookie out of the cookie jar. That's what our community is about right
now. And it's disappointing. It's just disappointing. Just give the guy a chance. Make the decision. Hire him. Bring him in. I hope he's the best police chief we'll ever have. Additional comments. We've had without it goes without saying
for the last eight years a lot of chaos in this community and we are all wanting to move forward and I think that at this point we are moving forward at a good pace. I feel so much better about our
government. Um, and we've had time to fill a leadership dep deficit that we've had a very serious leadership top of this organization
city. And we hired a interim fle uh city manager to do his job. I think is from everything I've heard about Mr. Blanch, he is far more
qualified than any police chief we've ever had. As far as licensing, I don't know about what the license looking for, but uh nurse or nursing. We've eventually got where our my
nursing license is good in any of states, but maybe license isn't. he has to take it in each state most likely and he would not take it in this state until he thought he might have a job in this state. So that would be my opinion and
think I like everything I heard about him his 30 69 day program that he's a mentor and that he and that he speaks so probably a whole lot better than I thank you.
Additional public commentary 309 Virginia. Um, this horse is well and truly dead. I uh but I do want to say just a couple of things. It feels as though we have a break in trust.
Um, and I think that that comes from well-intentioned people that want what's best. And I for one want to publicly state that I support each and every one of you in this decision process because I feel like you have done your jobs to the best
of your abilities. I also want to publicly state that I support interim city manager Chris Lightoot because he conducted a very thorough search. He opened the the application up to any and all comers. There were 43 applicants. It
was winnowed down. And the other thing that and I and I know Mr. Gray mentioned children um as parents here, you know, there's a a common phrase that we uh we need to wait until we're ready to have kids.
And if you wait until you're ready to have children, you'll never have children because you'll never be ready. If we wait any longer, then Mr. Blanchard would have it would be completely within
his uh purview and prerogative to say, "No, thank you. I no longer want the job." And when you have a candidate that is as stellar as Mr. Blanchard with some 30 years plus experience of law enforcement when he comes across your doorstep I
don't believe that it is prudent or responsible to turn around and say would you mind waiting a month when as it also has been accurately stated by Mr. Bashers however the recall election goes
it would appear that both I whether Mayor Nelson remains in his seat or Mr. Lowry becomes the mayor. Both candidates support Mr. Blanchard. Um, I'll sum it up with this. I think that what we can do now as a city is
move on, get back to being the best city in Bay County because that's what we are. I hope and pray that we will be focused on the future ahead of us, not what is behind us. Because what's behind us is
bad. We all know that. We need to move forward. We need to move forward. We need to focus on getting the city back on track, becoming, as I said during my campaign, the crown jewel of Bay County because that's what I believe it is. I believe this is the best city.
There's a reason that people want to live here at 18 seconds. One other thing, I watched the Facebook comments, too. There were 700 reactions uh or 700 reactions close to 200 comments. I counted four that were even mildly negative in
nature. So if we're lo if we're gaining somebody that they don't want to lose, that's a good thing. Thank you. >> Call the role. >> Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Commissioner Warick. >> Absolutely. >> Commissioner Peebles. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes.
>> Mayor Nelson? >> Yes. Motion passed. All right. discussion and possible approval of resolution 2025 12503 approving submitt of a state revolving fund loan application for point source water solution control. A resolution of the
city of Linhaven, Florida, approving the submitt of a state revolving fund loan application for point source water pollution control, pledging sewer enterprise funds for repay repayment of the loan, and designating Chris Lightfoot as the city's authorized representative. Mayor, this is another
reason we had to have the meeting tonight. This application, I've already gotten an extension on it. We need to get it submitted as soon as possible. We talked about it in our December 12th workshop uh for the headworks and the influent pump station at the sewer treatment plant. We did get authorized for 13
just under 13.3 million to construct the the headworks and the influent pump station. This is not committing us to the money. This is just the resolution that we need to continue our paperwork and application process. And I guess uh one of the questions
citizens have asked and just asking this for public clarification is that if we do move forward at some point and receive this loan that this will be paid back through enterprise funds and not funds from the general budget which would then affect millage rate.
>> Yes sir, that is correct. >> And also we were shooting to have our rate study um agreements with Bay County on this meeting due to the holidays. Didn't quite work out. So that will be on the January 9th meeting um to do the rate studies, but it all will coincide together. >> All right. Additional questions for Mr.
Lightfoot. >> All right. Is there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. All right. Comments from the public. I just saw in there something about an engineer. So it wasn't
>> so on the project for the headworks and influent pump station. It's team a team effort between M McDonald and Panhandle Engineering. It was designed back in 2021. And >> there's no way to change that? >> No, ma'am.
Yes sir. In accordance with the state's regulations on SRF. Um it says that you say that we're going to pay off three already debts that are we incurred. We have to
pay those off first. Okay. >> No. So, you don't have to pay them off prior to this? No. >> Okay. Forget that one. That's what it said in the book. So, um, is this going to be a loan? And you mentioned it's going to be in the
enterprise funds, which is a business. Okay. You make money for that. So, it takes it out of the sewer budget, which you said, which was good. That that answered one of my questions. But this loan which it incurs comes under the debt
that we're going to owe. So we're going to have a $13 million debt added to what we already have going into the five-year program that the finance company said we would not incur any debts. >> That's what the new rate study will
show. The rate the new rate study will take into effect the $13 million needed for this as well as the different scenarios of expanding the wastewater treatment plant with the additional $50 million to expand the current one or if we go to the county or whatever the future plans are the rate study will take into effect or into account all of
this >> which revolves around the sewer the sewer problem. Okay. Just wanted to make it sure that uh we're incurring another debt. May I? The finance review committee has
reviewed the project. Um, we've discussed several times if we will be rehabbing the existing sewer plant or if we will be partnering with the county and moving to the other county facility. They are fully aware of this. I've
discussed with them the potential costs involved. We have not specifically spoken about this SRF loan. uh we don't know that it will go through. This is just an application process for the headworks portion. The headworks needs
to be done whether we stay or whether we go partner with the county. So this is something that the city will have to do eventually. Keep in mind too, you will you will all get another resolution to accept the funding once the application is
approved, if it is approved, as well as you will get the decision to what do we do with the future of the wastewater treatment plant? >> And I know one of the conversations we had was is this something we can hold off until if the sewer plant goes down the county, but you have to do this regardless because you're still going to
use most of this stuff anyway. Keep in mind too, we are under the consent order that requires us to construct this. >> Yes, Commissioner Tinder. >> Oh, that's okay. I I just wanted to make a statement. Number one, I appreciate
the honesty. I appreciate everybody who came. Corey, you too. Mr. Bier, you too. um if uh sometime I'd love to have a conversation with you privately and and
that is because I'm going to honor any employees feedback. But um anyway, to end on a good note, we hired the police chief. I just got a
text that my daughter got engaged in Savannah. So, it's a good night. >> All right. Any other public comments? >> Call the role. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Warick, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Peoples, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. Motion passed. Agenda item number 15, um, state audit. >> Yep. So, uh, Commissioner Tinder, I know
you brought this up before that you were wanting an audit done. >> Yes. >> So, I did my due diligence and I sat down, uh, one of the people I sat down with was state um, Senator, uh, Trumbull and one of the conversations we had was about the state audit. And then I I
think I brought this up before, but if we request an audit from directly from the state audit agency, we have to pay for it. But if one of our state representatives uh request it, then we don't have to pay for it. So I reached out to um Senator Trumbull asking if he
would be willing to request it. He said he was willing to request it, but he wanted a request from the commission. So >> well, I'm I'm huge supporter of an audit. I've said it all along. We need an audit.
So I would definitely consent to that. But I I think you need direction, city attorney. Yeah, I think you need direction as far as what we want to the scope to be of it. And this is what I brought up, but I don't know how the rest of you feel, but
um and I know Kiki did an awesome presentation about how we went from $5.2 million to $18 million in disaster recovery bond. Um and I and I still have concerns with some of those things about, you know, whether policy and procedures were followed. Um, and I know
since then, um, we have found things where they were supposed to come to us and they did not come to us, which I appreciate the city finding those things and trying to to dig in and and and and inspect those things, but it gives me a
little bit concern of are we missing more things. So, that was kind of some of the things I was looking at, maybe looking back, if they're willing to look back from FY fiscal year 21 to 25 and making sure um we're following the
policy and procedures that should have been filed. Now, in regards to following policy and procedure, are you referring to all of the budget or just particular parts of the finances? Like you mentioned disaster recovery. Are you just referring to that? Are you
referring to the department heads and supervisors and everyone? >> Uh it's no one in particular. I just just in general. >> No, no, that's what I'm saying. So when you're saying following the policies for the entire finances of the city, that's what I'm asking, >> right? Yes.
>> Okay. >> All right. Uh so we need to draft like a resolution for that. I don't know. >> Okay. >> I would think it just he need a letter, but I'm not sure. >> So, um, is everyone
Well, is there just make a motion? >> Mayor, before instead of a motion, not I'll defer to to Miss Myers, but prior to the next meeting, if she and I can just meet with Senator Trumbull or Representative Griffiths and we'll kind of get a better understanding from their office of what exactly we're after
because I'm not sure either. This is this is all new on requesting a state audit. Um but prior to voting on anything, unless you think we need to, let's sit down with them and >> I've already reached out to Senator Tumblr's office to get answers to my
questions about exactly what they need from us to initiate this process, what that request looks like, whether it's minutes and a really well-crafted motion or if it needs to be a resolution. I don't have the answer. I'd love the opportunity to get the answer. Um, but in the absence of having the answer, if
y'all are prepared to make a fairly specific motion, we can probably work with that, too. So, up to y'all. >> All right. So, I'll make a motion to audit from fiscal year 2021 to 2025 to
see uh audit our financials to make sure city policy and procedures were followed. This is all all all all fin all finances and not just hurricane Michael. >> I'd second that. Right. There's a motion and a second. Comments from the public.
Yes, sir. >> One quick thing. I'm not against an audit. The audit's fine, but I'm concerned that if you have a motion and you second it and you vote approval for it, that you are in fact requesting the state do an audit, which means we're going to be liable for the payment for
that audit. That's how I'm I'm I'm concerned that an official action by the by the commission right now will look like we're asking the state to do an audit. Um, not for them to sponsor the audit. That's my concern. Now, Amy may be able to answer that better. That is
my my concern with how this is being handled right now. >> That is in fact what this motion would be, an official request for an audit. Now, based on Commissioner Warick's representations and conversations with Trumbull that he has had and I have not, we will not have to pay for it if we go this particular route. I don't
>> We're requesting that the senator request the audit, >> but and to my understanding though, they can still reject it. That's not we're not necessarily going to be guaranteed the audit. The Senate can still reject it, >> right? And maybe that'll come out of that conversation we had with Senator Trump. But the way I understand it, as
long as um and it could be any state representative request it, then um we don't have to pay for it. >> I just want to make sure we didn't make the wrong step legally to obligate us. >> Yes, sir. Um mayor, we need to repeat
the motion for um Okay. What did I say? Before you do that, how about you change it to say I motion to accept Representative or Senator Trumbull's offer to submit. You know, requesting a state audit.
I'll pause there so you guys can do that before I talk. >> Um, I make a motion to accept. Senator, >> we have to take the other motion back because we have a a motion on the floor right now. >> So, we have So, she has to take it back. I have to take it back.
Yes, we have to revise. I >> I would like to amend [clears throat] my motion to accept Senator Trumbull's request or offer to request a state audit for the city of Linhaven from fiscal year 2021 to 2045 for all
financials. >> Good. That's good for you, Amy. >> Yeah, that works. >> All right. And that good for you, CJ. Yeah, she has to second that.
>> Oh, I retract my >> Indian >> her second, but I second this motion. Yes. >> Thank you. Okay. So my commentary is uh when we're digging into financials and I don't know if the city attorney can put this in the request to Senator Trumbull
to ask for specifically when we're talking about financials. You know I brought up many times now about laws in the city procurement policies. There was nothing authorizing anyone in
the city to ever um conduct procurements for o owner directed purchases on construction. Um that would be included into or separated out of any other existing contracts. I know Chris still
has to work on that portion of the policy. Um, but anything that was done on city hall that was over $35,000 needed to be brought before the commission. I did in my own audit and I found that there's no records of the
commission voting on I think it was upwards of 12 or 18 actions. Uh, you know, that's a problem to me. The solution has already been granted. We have an interim city manager that's following and rewriting policy, which I
asked for policy to be rewritten before and it wasn't and now it is being rewritten. So, the solution to the problem is fine, but if we're if we're not going to foot the bill, I'm all for the audit. Um, we're footing the bill at
the state level because we all pay state taxes in some way at minimum sales tax. Um, but it's just important that when this audit take place that I think we as a commission that you guys all talk and
and express what your concerns are specifically, you know, concerns on procurement, concerns on policies relating to financial accounts like those police accounts or whatever, um, ex expenditure
accounts, discretionary accounts, all things like that. um things that got put on people's paychecks that were like reimbursements or anything. All kinds of ways to move money around. Money just goes in a big circle. So I just if
you're going to do it and we're not going to have to pay for it, ask them to be really thorough. And the main goal with asking them to be thorough is so that way we can put mechanisms in place through policy to number one prevent it
from happening again and number two and more importantly hold people who do it accountable. For example, and I'm just going to take a slight, you know, sharp turn here, but for example, on the flock stuff, you could put a policy in place
that if people misuse that, because to me, that's misusing the system is a misuse of financial resources. You're paying that person to do a job and they're not doing the job, so they're misusing our money. Terminate them. One strike, you're out.
Sorry, that's a baseball reference for you. I fully encourage this accountability and transparency. This is these are not new terms. These are not concepts. We all believe in it. Set the standard. Uh this is a very
first a very important first step. The books need to be cleaned. They need to be looked at. If we were to hire a CPA or an outside firm, they say, "Well, that person's tied to this or this political affiliation or this or that." We bring in the state authority, have
them scrub our books, get an outside professional third party sanity check. Open kimono. Financially speaking, sunshine is a very good disinfectant in public space. Highly encourage you to do this. This is a very, very important step to rebuilding the public's trust.
Other speaker has already said a big part of that dynamic has already been removed from our organizational equation. the lingering shadow or the lingering effects of that mistrust is still here. This is how we can open up, disinfect and move forward. So, please
support it and let's get going. >> Additional comments, >> you're talking about Jamie >> fiscal year 2021 to 2025. I' I'd come up here and I got I got all the uh stuff on and all that, you know,
records request and all and I got them for Kiki and everything and we still been going through them. Our biggest problem we've seen 2019 when was all the city paid out the wrong invoices, the false invoices 2019.
And then we went through and we agreed with Kiki. It was $18 million. The city hall here was about $4 million over. So that come in just just right. You know, we agree with her 100%. What we didn't agree with there was procurement
policies that were were couldn't be found. The biggest problems I can see everything was how you spent the money. Tonight I seen on the agenda there that I think BCL had a change order for $700. It come for the commission to be
approved. On this building here, there was 52 change orders and I believe only one come before the commission. That was the problem. And I did the airport out there was $140 something million dollars three years and we had a meeting every
week. I didn't get $1 above the contract until it was approved by the board. You know the $35,000 that's a city manager but the contracts is what you go through. If it's a $10 million contract
if it's 9 and a half mill million was spent how did you save the half million? If 10 and a half million was spent, who authorized the other half million? But I think the years 19, 20, 21, not 25, back it up a little bit if if you wanted to
to do try and get them pay for the audit because 19 was when all the invoices that were paid that was illegal. So, >> yes, sir. I get the 2019 2021 doesn't till current
doesn't seem to make any sense to me yet. I'm sorry. Yet again, nailer bear cloth. Um I worked in the remodeling industry. I I was a cook. Some people call me a chef. I appreciate those that I worked with in the industry. I Let me say this real
quick. I will kill for my dishwasher. I don't need anybody else in my kitchen cuz I don't want to wash the dishes and the pots and the pans. But the people that uh helped me develop my company that I had for a short while. I worked in the remodel industry. I really need to look back at 2018. 2018 and give you
a baseline because of we had Michael didn't happen till October of 2018. You have a good baseline from 2018 till now. That'll start showing you plus we had COVID in 2020. There's all kinds of things that have happened and working somebody in service industry that I did
for years. I know a lot of things that happen around in back rooms, at bars, and at the high tops and the tables. They a lot of things get said and done that most people don't even recognize. I'm not saying maybe it's all corruption. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But I can tell you what, I can read the English language. I can read statutes. I can read the Constitution. So, you know what? walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Guess what? It's a duck. So, we all know that there's corruption in Bay County. I know it firsthand. I know it. I know it beyond firsthand. I won't put
it out there. You got You got people that are over there as the Bay County Sheriff at the Child Advocacy Center. You got him also working on the what is the training commission. He's he So, you make a complaint on an officer, guess who it's going to? It's going to Tommy
Ford. Uh let's see. Uh there's this guy, his name's Joel Booth. He used to work as the Panama City Manager for the Judicial Circuit of the 14th Judicial Circuit. His name's on a administrative order from the Judicial Circuit uh 2005. Oh, wait. Now he's a he's the director
of the Child Advocacy Center. You know how I know all this? Because my son and my daughter's been brought up in DCF and all this other stuff that's been going on. As of as of Christmas Eve, I've been fighting with DCF and the family law courts for 10 years. So you sit there and say, "Well, there's blanket stuff of
corruption." You want to know the corruption, you can check me out. I'll give you my phone number, my name. My name is Christopher Michael Naylor. Check me out on Facebook. You'll see an angry Care Bear there right now. I also identify as what? The one and only Street Justice Renegade code name CPS
Deadpool. My name has been given to me natively as Naylor Bearclaw because I'm going to claw open the doors and I'm about to go ahead and show you what corruption really is. Because what you don't know is that you are all also helping to pay for all that. You're paying for these judges and these
attorneys and these cops to do illegal things with DCF. And the next time I come in here, I'm going to expose all that to y'all, too. So, you want an audit? I suggest you go back to 2018 because you're not going to just find out the construction stuff. You're going to find out the stuff in civil court and
dealing with DCF and being bad actors, helping bad actors. Thank you. >> Additional public commentary. you have some commentary. >> Um, I feel the need to make sure that those who are listening understand that
the city is audited annually. It has been audited annually. We are currently discussing an additional audit. It's not that we haven't been audited. We have been audited.
And it is true that the state will not charge us dollars to do this additional audit. However, there will be staff time devoted to this. I will need to assign staff to help produce documents and do
the analysis. It's no small task. Um, I would ask for the commission's direction on what it is you're feeling, what what's the end goal, what
are you looking for, and set very specific parameters about what to look at. uh if you just you we want to add at the last four years, the last seven years, it doesn't really give us any direction of what it is you feel that we
haven't looked at before that you want us to look at again in the future. Got it. I think what was in the motion was the actual procurement policies themselves, looking over the past uh fiscal years from 2021 to 2025 to see if
the procurement policies were followed for those particular years. um for all departments, all purchases, etc. Right. Additional public comments. I just want to say that when uh the last
time we asked for an audit and we got one, I couldn't tell you what year it was. Um, I remember Dan Russell and I both agreed that we would throw $100,000 at it with the audit to make sure it was thorough. And
as it turned out, the then city manager, spent $20,000 and sent it to a firm in Michigan or somewhere up north. They were here for two days and we got a letter back that we're just clean as a whistle. So, that was one of my very first
assignments when I hired on in January of 2020. I came in in the door and you had just voted to do that. Um, it is not unusual to audit for auditors to work remotely. It is not unusual for them not
to be in the building. Our current a firm, I'm sending things to a portal every day. I'm doing analysis. I'm putting together spreadsheets. um submitting supporting documents and it's all done on the internet. Um they usually come just to say hi and have
some facetime and and do that sort of thing once a year, but all of the work is done remotely. So I don't feel that there's any problem with having auditors work remotely. That's the standard of
the industry now. Um, again, back to that special audit that plant Moran did for us in 2020. I don't recall the exact amount of money that we spent on it, but there was a lot of staff time devoted along with the dollars and cents expense
to do the work. And as you point out, they didn't find anything. So, um, and I was not involved. I hadn't been hired yet when the scope was developed. So that's what I'm trying to to highlight
now is you we need a finite scope of what you want to address so that we're not just floundering and looking at a a you're talking a lot of documents and a lot of uh money and a lot of
paperwork that um you know some of it is digitized and easy to find some of it isn't. Again, when I came here in January of 2020, it was not common for us to be scanning documents. So, we still have paper documents in storage
that if you decide that you want to have 19 done or 20 done, now I'm paying staff to go to storage to look for documents. It it can be done. It's just going to be expensive with staff time. And again,
not sure what it is you're you're looking for. Um, I just need a real clear scope, please. >> I think I mean I think we just mentioned the scope. I think what the motion is is
everything. >> I think once they have the conversation with Senator Trumbull, we'll probably have a better idea of what we can and can't request. And at this point, we're just trying to rebuild transparency with the community. >> Absolutely.
>> Yeah. So, I mean, I'm I'm sure you just heard the police chief conversation. We've It's 9:07. We've been here since 5:30. So, I think that's really what this is about is rebuilding trust and transparency with the community.
>> I absolutely agree. I support that 100% and I will do whatever I'm instructed. and just trying to be clear about what expectations are and what the ramifications are for staff. >> Got it. >> You demand.
>> Commissioner Oc. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero. >> Yep. >> Mayor Nelson. Yes.