This is This is better than a town hall right now. >> You know that is better than a town hall meeting. >> Thank you. We'll wait till you hand them out the gavaline. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, ma'am.
>> No worries. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> You're good. >> Everybody, are we going to do it? Is there anything >> you uh >> or are we the only ones to get these?
>> We're getting them. I don't know if she brought a >> anything to put up. >> Yeah, she's handed them out. So >> Oh, yeah. No, but I thought u Beverly brought a >> thumb drive so he could do but maybe not. >> All right, good afternoon everyone.
Thank you for coming out for our uh short notice uh workshop this week. Uh special thanks to Commissioner Judy Tender for requesting this. >> Uh we will try to make this a beneficial hour and a half, two hours of your Saturday afternoon.
>> Um this is going to be an informal workshop. So it's not going to be the formal >> one of these Johnny. >> Sorry. >> Okay. >> We uh we're here to hear from y'all what your thoughts and your concerns are. So, it will be very free flowing, uh, no
threat environment. Um, as long as we can take turns and be organized and respectful to each other, we're going to have a a good afternoon and hopefully a good dialogue and exchange of information. So, anybody has any concerns, please uh raise your hand or
please give us a holler. But otherwise, um, we'll start off. I'll give the commissioners. >> Yep. Mayor, I've actually got a quick presentation to kind of give some background. um probably will answer a lot of questions like we can run through that presentation real quick and then open it
up to the public. >> Sure. So before we kick off with the city manager's presentation and thank you for that sir. Commissioner Tinder, you asked for this. So would you like to say a few opening remarks ma'am? >> Yes I would. Um I think this is very important and I think it will be very
beneficial to all of us to the city as well as the residents. I have heard more than my share of complaints about things that have taken place during this um renovation, if you will. And as
small as some of them might seem to some, they're huge to the person who lives there. And I want when we leave here, I'm hoping to have a list of things that we can improve on from
the city going forward. And uh that's my goal is to just have a a list of things that we can improve on and that we can provide uh to the residents. Obviously, we're all elected officials up here. Um,
except one down there, Chris. We hired him. And, um, uh, our goal is to please and to work for the residents. That's our job is to represent you. So, um, this is just a way we're going to start
out and hope that we can make that happen. And I am so thrilled to see all these people here. Um, that's all I have to say. >> Thank you, ma'am. Well, with that, city manager, floor is yours. Sorry. >> Yes, sir. Uh, so this uh project is
called the West 10th Street Utilities Improvement Project. It is a CDBG funded project uh which is through the Department of Commerce. The original agreement was executed in January of 2022. Uh just a brief rundown of the project.
It includes the trenchless rehabilitation of about 9,300 ft of clay gravity sewer pipes and brick manholes that were installed in the 1960s. And trenchless rehab is where they go in and they put a liner inside of it instead of having to demo and rebuild new gravity
sewer lines. It's much more costefficient and much more much quicker than than that method. Um, this project also includes includes 14,000 ft of new 6-in water man to improve your fireflow protection and water supply. replacing
500 ft of 6 in asbestous concrete mains, 13,500 ft of 2-in water manes, and 2.4 mi of roadway and installing util um storm water collection system on east west 10th Street um which never they
never had it before. So project design, the RFQ223-06 was advertised in January 2023. We executed a contract with Dubberry Engineers March 14th of 2023. And the design and permitting phase lasted from
March 2023 until February 2025. See my typo there in February, but we got a release of funds in February of 2025 authorizing the project to move out to bed. So, we received bids May 29th, 2025. We had bids from ECSC 850 Construction
Services, Mainline Construction, CBC Construction, Royal American Construction, Phoenix Construction Services, CWR Contracting, Marshall Brothers Construction, and LNK Contracting with ECSC being the low bid at $4,416,5943.
The agreement with ECSE was executed August 12th, 2025 in the amount of $4,416,5943. The original substantion completion date was July July 30th, 2026 with final completion being August 29th, 2026. Change order one was executed March 30th
of this year in the amount of $826,172.93 and that moved the substantial completion to September 3rd, 2026 with final being October 3rd, 2026. And if you all recall uh at the commission meeting with that change order was executed, it was due to the the base the
existing base in the roadways was not adequate to meet the LBRs. So they had to demo or remove the the current base and then import new base and compact it so that it could meet specifications. So some of the project issues like I mentioned the LB we couldn't achieve
adequate LBR for compaction. Um the base was brought removed and the new brought in. The new inlets installed on 10th Street were installed at an elevation that did not meet the real world conditions. It was a design flaw that required a modification. Um, our design engineer at Deubberry paid the cost of
those modifications. Tie-ins for utilities around the school had to be delayed just to contend with water outages for the school days. Um, some of those tie-ins couldn't be made unless the school was out for a holiday or after summer break started. And then we had multiple utility hits um due to
existing utilities just not being reflected accurately on the old asbuilts. Um, Carolina Avenue was a prime example of that. It was an existing 2-in main. It may show on the GIS that it was on the east side of the road and as they worked their way down the road, it actually had gotten out
into the asphalt that no one no one knew was just not accurately from probably the 60s whenever they installed that. What's left of the project? We are nearing the completion, but we have a paving on 8th Street, Georgia Avenue and
New York Avenue left, the final siding and dress up, manhole lining, and then a few limited water tie-ins. And Mr. Pullman with ECS is here. He can also answer any questions uh once we get done about the the scope that's left. And this is just some pictures of the
the roads that are left to be paved. And then the siding there at uh 10th in Alabama and that intersection there is what's left as well. So what could we have done a little better? So city newsletter for the project and utilizing the website for
updates. uh staff did utilize our Tiger Notify as much as possible, but unfortunately that was more of a reactive versus a proactive approach. Um we do brought this as an example. DOT does send out like a US 231 and 23rd Street resurfacing project. It's a
little postcard of what's what's to come. So in the future, if we have a project this large that's going to affect a number of residents like we do or like we have on this project, maybe a postcard or something like that, a mailer is a better approach to to reach everyone. And then we had a staff transition period as you all know left a
lot of staff members who were not involved in the project from the beginning to answer questions. Going back to mayor the um the project like I said is called the 10th street utilities improvement project. However, this work goes from 9inth street to 17th street and from Ohio to Tennessee
Avenue. But the majority of the work the the major stuff was right there at 10th Street which is how this project got its title back in 2019 when it was originally discussed. And then with that, we'll open it up to questions uh from the public or the commission.
>> Okay. Before we open up to the floor, commissioners, do y'all have any questions or comments that y'all would like to to share with the crowd? >> Sam, Pat? I think it's uh pretty clear that we
need to have better oversight of our contractors. We need to have something some type of policy or something in place that requires staff to go and more more check on the contractors uh more often
and make sure that if they're doing something like putting something in someone's yard, we need to have it in our contract that they're required to remove it because I mean that should never ever be okay. if I'm if I have a
[music] piece of Now, we do have the city rideways and and so there are situations where it might look like it's on someone's yard when it's not, but some of these pictures is clearly in someone's yard and that should never ever be okay. So, we need to have something in place whether that's a an
updated policy for uh contractors when we use them to check at a more uh more often. But also, we need to make sure within our when we write a contract uh that it says something in there
specifically that they are liable for any damage that they have uh caused to the citizen because it shouldn't be. We're con we're hiring contractors so if they mess something up they should be liable for fixing it because they're the ones that did the work. You know what I
mean? So I mean I'm sure we have some things in place and I'm sure Chris can talk to that but um that's my first thought after looking at this stuff. >> Yes sir. So we do have a CI team. Uh Deubberry has been tasked with a CI for this project. So, we have a resident inspector and then if if any property
damage is happens during the project, of course, we will require ECSC or any contractor that's working on it to [snorts] ensure that it's repaired before the project is complete. At the end of the project, we still have their retainage. So, if they haven't repaired anything uh that's
turned into us, we will hold that retainage until they do. And that hasn't been an issue. >> Pat, you got anything, sir? The only thing I've got is to thank everybody who's here and um this has been an a
project that happened. Um [clears throat] I think I think the whole reason we're here is that we could have had a better line of communication while it was happening and what was happening to you all the residents. So you could have gotten to the city
quicker and the city could have responded quicker. Correct. I mean, Judy brought it to us and we got a couple emails, but I think it it was already happening to the to the people, which is which is a which is I'm sorry it's a blind eye from from from us or me, but
Judy I think Judy I think that's the side you live on, Virginia over there and they got to you and and and we heard we we heard you but we might have heard you too late and I'm I'm sorry it got to this point but what we can learn from
this. We'll learn. And what damages are done, I know we'll I I know we'll do our best to make you whole on it. You know, I we have to we have to make it right. So, um just just uh appreciate bringing
it to our attention, but it it shouldn't had to get to this point. There should be a clear line of communication for y'all during a project where you can get to the city or get to somebody who's a contact with the city so you can be heard. And that's that's that's uh I
hope that's our goal and our outcome from this is as Commissioner Tinder stated in the beginning. So that's all I want to say. >> Thank you, sir. Miss Judy, do you want to say anything else here? >> Yes. Um
I don't want to repeat myself. So, some of the things that I have been called about and and told about were people that couldn't get out of their driveway to go to a doctor's appointment because
there's heavy equipment parked behind them and they can't even get out of their house. That is something I personally feel needs to be eliminated. Um, there are other people that are here and I'm sure they will talk about it,
but where workers would park in their yard and fill their entire yard with vehicles to the point where there was no grass left in and out, speeding in and out, whatever they do to rip up your grass. Uh, their yard was left just
a dirt pile. Um, I got one call one day. The guy wanted to take his daughter to school and he called me right after he went out and he said, "I can't even get out of my driveway." He said, "There's so much stuff parked in front of my driveway, uh, vehicles and and whatnot."
That's the type of thing that I think we need to eliminate. Now, how do we do that? I don't have all the answers and I don't pretend to, but I I think and I think a couple of things that we must keep in mind is that we as a community,
I don't know the percentages on ages, but I would bet these two kids right over here see everything on Facebook and they know what's going on. Me, I hate Facebook, and I'm just being honest about it because I can't believe
anything I read on it half the time. And somebody just told me that. Stop believing that, Judy. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, [laughter] um, so I mean, and many of our senior citizens don't have Facebook. >> And so, uh, that's a big deal. That's a
big deal. So, I think we have to have a hands-on approach to keep the residents informed that are going through this at the time that they're going through it. Um, I did go over there all the time. I I would drive by in the morning on my
way to work, on my way home uh from work and um I would just most of the time just shake my head cuz I couldn't believe what I saw. And uh people from the company going up and
turning somebody's outside faucet on to have it run. and um I don't remember the reason for that, but I do I remember who it was. And uh things like things of that nature and you go, "What in the heck is going
on?" Um I think driveways that have had to be replaced that were done in cement originally should be done back in cement, not in asphalt. There's a 20:1 ratio. I believe cement is a lot
stronger than asphalt. And so I don't think it's fair to replace their driveway in asphalt. If it was done in cement, it'll be gone 20 20 times faster. I think that things should look like they looked when they got there.
And we've had to put a lot of things in down there for whatever reason. I'm not a contractor, but we didn't replace them what was with what was there. So, and I mean just different things like this. And I can't wait to hear from
the residents that were there. And just let me say this, there's no big complaint or or or small complaint. We need to take a look at everything so that we can fix it. Uh so that we can make sure this doesn't happen. We have
so much going on in Lynhaven as far as uh renovations down Tennessee, up 10th Street. Um, I had a resident the other day say, "Well, you know why they did 10th Street first?" And I said, "No, I don't know why." And I do agree with you. I think it's true. They did 10th
Street first because of the fuel depot that ends up there on the end of 10th. >> Uh, and I think that's a a [clears throat] huge goal to make that happen. And um, so anyway, yeah, I won't keep talking because I could talk all day about it,
but I'd rather hear from the residents. And please don't be shy. And if you are shy, just stand up in your seat and tell us what you got to say. And uh we're going to be uh making a list so we know uh where we can improve things. >> If if I may, didn't they start at 10th
Street because it was the storm water that had to be what had to be replaced that wasn't there before? Is [clears throat] that that's why it was called the 10th Street project? >> So yes, sir. This project has nothing to do with the fuel depot. It was originally started because the storm water master plan called for storm water
improvements on West 10th Street um which is how the project originated and then back in 2019 before I was here they grew the project so it included water water manes sewer line lining um the sewer lining actually will start from a
2016 project same with the water manes and then the paving just encapsulated everything that they would demo um if they're back on that If faucets are turned on outside spigots to run, that's typically because they've done the water tie-ins and they need to
flush the lines to ensure that no dirt gets inside the resident's home. If it's excessive uh flushing, typically the resident will call us or the contractor will call us or the CI team and we give a,00gallon credit um on their utility bill. So, we do that quite frequently uh
for issues. If there are any driveways that were put back with materials that different um all they have to do is let us know. But it's it notes on the plans u to match it with concrete or match it with asphalt. I have talked to one resident throughout the project who they
paved um Google Earth it back and sent them and it was pavement before so they weren't going to put concrete back when it was a pavement driveway before. >> Right. Um, and then with the fuel depot, we already addressed this project has nothing to do with the fuel depot.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Well, last but certainly not least, before we turn it over to all of you residents, I want to give Commissioner Warick a chance as our proverbial caboose here to say a few words as well. And uh then we'll we'll open up the floor and uh if any of you residents um
are mobility challenged, you don't want to get up and walk up here and stand, you don't have to. Just raise your hand. we will bring a microphone to you so that you can speak from wherever you're at in the audience. Okay. So, Mr. Wart, >> so the only thing I'll say is um
everything's pretty much been addressed what I wanted to talk about, but I can understand, you know, you you work your whole life. This is your one thing that you own and you take pride in it and uh you don't want it ruined. So, I I can totally understand that that feeling of
what are you doing to to my property? Um, and uh yeah, I I would feel the same way, you know. But one thing I'll say, and I think this is probably one big thing the city could approve on, is whenever we have a big project like this, and this will probably be the
biggest project that any [clears throat] of us will experience on the commission. That's how big of a project this is. But whenever we do, I I think we should have a workshop like this from the very beginning with us up here with the city manager, the contractor, the engineer so
that they can explain the whole project, explain the whole game plan. And um if residents have questions, we can answer those questions and I think that would alleviate a lot of the problems that that we uh dealt with. Other than that, I'm just looking forward to listening to residents. Oh, last thing I was going to
say is um I really wasn't contact until towards the end of the project. I had about three people that contacted me and I went out to each one of them and talk to them. And uh what I do is soon as I get a complaint or something, I first thing I'm going to do is call the city manager say, "Hey, do you know about
this?" Uh and I'll reach back out to the resident or I'll have the city manager reach back out to him so that the communication flow can happen. So, thank you. And with that, we'll open the floor. Miss Haley, do you want to start off here? Right. >> So, I have a few stories here. I know
we've addressed some things, but residents still want me to share their stories so that we have the big picture of everything and what we can improve on. >> Good afternoon. My name is Haley King and I live at 507 West 10th Street. I provided each of you with a timeline packet because I wanted to show how this project looked from a resident's
perspective. I understand that infrastructure projects are necessary. Can we turn? We got They can't hear you in the back. >> Yes. Get your mouth right up there like you're a singer. >> Got to eat the mic.
>> Hello. >> That's better. You got to be careful. >> Sorry. >> So, I understand infra infrastructure projects are necessary and I appreciate the improvements that the project is intended to bring to our community. >> However, for many of us, this project became much more than a temporary
inconvenience. As you'll see in the packet, my property went from maintained yard with full access to months of construction impacts, excavation, and restoration concerns. One of the biggest frustrations was that the project plans stated disturbed areas would be restored
within 30 days. Instead, many of us experienced more than 6 months of impact. It is stated in the contract that it would be 30 days. Throughout this project, residents dealt with limited access to our property, safety concerns, uncertainty about timelines, and a lack of communication regarding
what was happen what was happening and when. As time went on, my concerns became bigger than my own yard. I started asking questions about restoration standards, changes made to my property, and the authority being relied upon for decisions affecting access and grading. I met with staff,
communicated with officials, and submitted public records requests because I simply wanted to understand what happened and why. Today, questions still remain regarding final restoration, drainage concerns, and whether the final condition is considered acceptable. This issue is no longer about one property. It's about
communication, transparency, accountability, and making sure future projects are handled better than this. I love this city. That's what I've that's why I've spent so much time asking questions. I respectfully ask the city to review this project, learn from it, and commit to better communication and accountability moving forward. The
photos in this packet tell a better story than I can. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> That's a tough first act to follow. Who's next? Mr. Zach and then in the back.
>> Good afternoon. >> Good afternoon. Um, so I'm familiar with the project, but I'm kind of playing catch-up on maybe some more of the understanding of how the project came to be about and and sort of understanding the underlying problems that got us to where we are. So, having done project
management, I can tell you that project creep is a real thing. um you set out with a scope and then things happen and 10 months past your deadline, you're still dealing with a quarter of the project and and especially when you're dealing with governments and funding and
everything else like that, it can be a hard thing. So, I kind of wanted to back up maybe even as far back as 2022 and kind of find out how the project came about and and how we got here. So, starting off, it's funded by CDBG. Uh is that a 100% grant, 50% grant? How?
>> Yes sir. Um 100% funded grant. Um it's different phases. You have the design phase, uh the project management phase, and then the project construction phase. >> So the total 5.2 was for design and construction or was the 5.2? >> No, 5.2 is for the entire project. >> Okay. So when we had the extension for
the 800,000 that came out of the city's pocket, >> not yet. So we have been told by Department of Commerce that we should receive reimbursement for that project. We have not received the confirmation for it, but we should be 100% uh reimbured on the $800 and something thousand change order.
>> Okay, that's always good to hear. [laughter] Um so when we started the design phase, um what types of things would have occurred? Did they actually go out and do bore samples to find out what that bottom grade looked like? You know, were they doing LAR to figure out where the
roads are? you know, kind of maybe walk us through a quick highlight of what they would have done so maybe we could have mitigated some of these things in the future with with having these change orders. >> Yeah. So, we did have a lot of core samples on the project. However, Linhaven is a a funky area. So, there's a lot of old sand asphalt that was used
probably back in the I would assume 70s to to 80s uh where they used a lot of the sand asphalt. So, when you reclaim it, it doesn't meet the compaction. So you had several areas that did meet good compat or did show good geotech with the bores and then you had some that we knew were going to be a problem. It just
happened once they started reclaiming it was more than anticipated. >> Yeah. And when you lay it down on marsh it's always >> That's right. >> always fun. Um so with these pipes and stuff like that they put the linings in them. Um sometimes with these these linings there's going to be problems
because you might have had old metal pipes that have been compacted a little bit. you might have concrete that have cracks in them and stuff like that. What's the warranty level on those linings? What sort of problems could we look at or are these linings going to be good for 15 to 20 years no matter the the pipes sort of
>> Yeah. So, typically I think the industry standard on uh lining a a sewer pipeline gets you another 20 to 30 years on the pipe itself versus a complete replacement which would be a 50 uh 50 year pipe. >> Yeah. And and that gets expensive digging all those up >> especially with gravity sewer and some
as deep as they are. >> Yeah. And and so going through this project, I mean, it's expansive like you said, 9th to 17th, you know, Ohio to Tennessee. We now have a good GIS model, correct, of all the engineering that's gone into the ground, where all the pipes are, everything like that. If
there were changes like the one that might have occurred off Carolina, we've now noted that, updated our model. So going forward, we actually have a better engineering record now. So for our money, we've gotten a little extra. >> Yes. So actually two parts to that. So we will take the asbuilts once they're done. We'll take the CAD file. We'll
send them to Bay County who manages our GIS and that will now accurately be reflected in our GIS and then we will send them to our our consultant that holds our model. We will import that into the model. So it will show the improved you know 2 in to 6 in or 2 in to 8 in water manes uh the storm water
collection system. All of that shown. >> Okay. Um so now that we got into sort of the project construction and and this is where a lot of the problems are going to occur and it always happens once you put hands to dirt. Um, a lot of times you'll go through the ride ofways, especially when you're digging stuff up. You'll do
811 so everyone sees all the little flags and the stuff like that. Um, has the city ever implemented a plan where you actually go and find the rideway markers and put like a white dotted line that says rightway so people actually know where their property lines start? >> Yes, actually the contractor does a lot
of that during stakeout. Um, so you'll see a lot of wooden stakes with the orange flagging. Um, and there'll be offset where it could be rightway line and then you may see, you know, 5 foot offset or 10 foot offset just in case they're excavating at the rightway line and it gets moved out. >> Yeah. But but it it we could implement
something where there's always that visibility. So whenever you start on a road, you can knock on everyone's door and say, "Hey, by the way, this is where the right of way ends." So they know that if stuff's going to be sitting on it, that that's where it is. Um, another, you know, thing that I've I've seen done before is is you have the
little realtor signs and stuff like that. You know, anytime you're going to get started, hey, here's a project that's that's going to be started. Here's the scope of it. You know, they have little onecent signs that they always do, $1 signs. Um, you know, and and you've talked about construction uh
as as far as notifying people, but like I think Commissioner War said, having these meetings and stuff like that, I think is going to go a long way, especially when you're putting stuff into the ground. I don't think people realize the scope that you can't just do it sometimes from the roadway. It has to be done from the other side when you're doing drill borins and stuff like that.
So, having the contractor out here, having those types of things, I think is going to be important. But, I kind of just wanted everyone to have a technical understanding of what went through and and into this project. >> I love uh the white line.
I love that that I put it on there and go on the sheet because >> a visual is worth everything and you drive through Lin Haven, you can see anything from yellow flags to orange flags to white I mean I don't even know what they stand for. Flags are
everywhere [laughter] and next thing you know then you got a sidewalk in and white flag and I'm going what are they doing? Yeah. >> So, actually, Commissioner Tenner, that's a that's a good point of So, red flags or red paint means power, orange means telecommunications, yellow means
gas, blue is water, green is sewer, purple is reuse, >> um, and white is typically where the excavation is going to happen. So, like currently with our ditch contractor, um, you'll see the white hash marks on the asphalt along the ditch lines. That is where the ditch contractor is going to be digging. So when they call their
locate, when they call 811, the locator knows exactly that they're going to be digging right there. Uh so the white is always where the work is going to take place. >> But I love the idea of having that marked where their the easement ends so that you know, >> yeah, >> when somebody's yard's filled up with
trucks and stuff. And especially if you have a contractor, and I I've done a number of these, when you have someone going out, they do a pre and post photo so they they know the conditions and and there should be some sort of report typically, even if it's a wide scope and they do it every, you know, a couple of houses and stuff like that, there should be pictures that can be looked at for
for pre and post so that the community knows that it's not just like we went into a black hole and and and they don't know what's going on. The other question that I had with statement that was made um for the 30 days is that 30 days at the completion of the road, the completion of the contract or a
completion of a segment do you know? >> So typically it's completion with the underground portion is done. However, the underground portion appeared to be done but then in this project there were some some issues where we had to go back. So that 30 days got pushed out. Gotcha. I think that's all I got for now but I reserve my right to come up and be
a pain in the butt. Sir, come on up. Hey, >> welcome. >> Hi, >> Mike Crooms. I live at the corner of 10th Street in Alabama. 500 West 10th Street. They put the sod down already. Speaking of sod, we get water credit to
water it. No water trucks ran yesterday or today. >> The the water trucks will come through and water it. Um Mr. Pullman can give a schedule of of when they will water it uh when he speaks. >> So that's a no >> on which part? >> Giving us water credits? >> No, sir. We're not water. >> We won't issue water credits to water
side on the rightway. >> Good enough. That's one. Number two, y'all put these new lights up around the school. >> The overhead street lights >> that or is that part of? >> I haven't seen >> they put it on every pole around the school. I would imagine that'd be y'all.
>> No, sir. We don't do FPL does street lights. >> That's not tell us about it anyway. >> Well, there's two of them on the pole right there on the corner now. >> And there's one right there on the pole between me and 914 Alabama. You've ruined my zen. My midnight pool swims. It's like swimming in a ball field now.
All lit up. [laughter] My neighbor doesn't want to see that. >> Yeah. >> Can we get a deflector and attach to that? Deflect it towards the elementary school. >> You said it's at 914 Alabama this. >> No, I live at 500 West 10th Street. >> Right. 500 West, 914 Alabama. There's a pole.
There's a light. Light shines at the uh the cafetal building nine. We're going to talk about that in a minute. And it reflects back over my pool. I got pictures, but we can't be showing that. [laughter] Can we get reflectors,
please, to reflect the light away from me so I can enjoy my zen and not have to come down here? I've been watching everybody on YouTube. I see some of y'all I know just by watching. [laughter] Anyway, next the beautiful side you put down. You said something about city
right away and you said something about property lines. >> Who owns that grass between me and the building nine? >> I'm getting worked up. This is my pet peeve. Get off my grass. That is me today. I swear. >> Who owns it? >> I would have to come out and look to see
exactly where the rideway is to know where you're talking about for sure. >> I'm told I don't own it. >> I'm not sure. I've been mowing it since 1965. >> Just a minute. [laughter] >> Yeah, you've >> And it ain't mine. >> I'll have to come out and look at the
survey. >> Is it between? >> The survey has been done. My problem is that easement. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's the problem. What is a city easement? >> So on that is >> But what does it mean? >> So it on that it's not an easement. It's the rightway. So typically the rightway
is 60 ft. In a perfect world, it would be from the center of the road, the center of the street, 30 feet this way and 30 feet that way. Typically, that doesn't always happen. The roads can be offset from back. >> What does that mean? >> The rightway. >> Yeah. >> So, that you have a rightway for your road, for your water, for your sewer,
for your power, telecommunications, gas, any utilities to be installed. >> Is it free parking for the people at building 9? That's the question that I got. >> Huh? >> Free parking in my yard. >> I got to step back a little. I'm sorry. I was showing aggression. So
>> I live over by >> Yeah. >> Park there every single day. >> I can hear them fine. >> Okay. >> Well, they got >> I live I live I live over by Mullet and people park right there every single day >> and they tear it up and they put rats in it and it don't drain and they're going to tear the new side up and y'all are
okay with that. >> I mean, I'm not okay with it, but it's not mine. >> Who's this? >> Who mows it? >> Yeah, there no one cuz there's no grass left. >> Oh, I got [laughter] grass. Y'all send the little have the ground through once a month and then reaches out there and does a little trim.
>> But the the correct answer is that the city should be responsible for mowing it because you don't need to mow it more once a month cuz it looks ugly. >> All right. Well, taxes are going to have to go up if you want that. So, >> whatever. >> I live in L. I pay taxes. I don't have a problem with that. You can call me Mr. Tax if you want.
>> Who's responsible since you got me all riled up. Who's responsible for edging the sidewalk in front of the house? Y'all put in a nice sidewalk. Who edges that? It depends on what side of the sidewalk >> is on your If it's If it's on your side, it's you. If it's on the other side, it's the city. >> But what happened to that 60 ft thing?
>> That the sidewalk should only be on the public side, not the private side. >> Yes, sir. So, the sidewalk won't go onto the private property line, but city sta city most definitely does not have staff to come through an edge sidewalk. I wish we did. It would look much greater throughout the city, but we must >> I mean, I'm doing it like I'm mowing for
free for y'all already on that easement part you're talking about, but that stopped. I just wanted to get that out. I don't feel better about it. But, you know, I just wanted to share the reflector. Let's work on my zen. You can see I need it. Let's Let's get some light reflector so I don't have to I
don't you know, we good. Any questions for me, >> sir? We'll run down the light. I don't think that that's the city. I don't know if that's FPL or or what. be FBL. We wouldn't we would contract with them, but we'll get get I'll give you my card afterwards. If you don't mind, shoot me a picture of it so that I can send it
over to Mr. Resa with FBL. We'll get it address. >> They put a >> That's Yeah. >> So, I win that. I don't get no water credit and people can park wherever they want and I got to edge the sidewalk on my side. Give me one of this. [laughter]
>> Evidently, let's Well, since you brought that up, is there no like rules to make people enter your yard and mow it? Because >> Yeah, there you go. >> Let's talk about that. >> Yeah, >> we definitely have code enforcement if they're not keeping up their yard
>> when you go out there. >> No, I quit last year. >> I called the L Haven Police Department. It wasn't you, though. [laughter] and he declared imminent domain on me and I threw up my hand. Well, he didn't use those words. I thought that'd be
funny. Didn't get a good laugh. Uh but basically, he said what he said and I got to turning I got to cussing and I had to walk away cuz I was getting ready to zip his hide and taser. It made me so mad. So, no, I quit mowing it. I really My neighbor 914 Alabama, the one with the little asphalt instead of the
sidewalk or cement. Same thing. Yeah. I ain't speaking for her though. But I mowed her yard, too. I guess I'm just a grass cutter. >> Anything else? Oh, one more thing. You I saw you once on YouTube talking about the people who put all the grass
clippings out, the uh the contractors who mow people's yards. >> Yes. >> They're not supposed to do that. >> No, >> they're supposed to haul it away. >> That's right. >> Thank >> if uh anyone doesn't feel comfortable coming up, just let me know and I'll come to you with a mic if you want to do
it from your chair. So, those are three tough acts to follow. Yes. >> More from other people. >> Okay. Yeah. Um, Miss Haley will come back up again and speak, but if you're considering speaking, please do. You can come up here. Um, or we, like I said,
Commissioner Warick will bring you a cordless microphone. >> And these are people that Hey, >> these are people that I've spoke. Is it on? >> Yes. >> Okay. That I have spoken to that could not make it today. >> So, I handed out a couple flyers. The flooding one. So, this is from my
neighbors that had flooding issues. The attached photographs from neighbors properties represents just some of the experiences residents have had throughout this project. Residents experienced large excavation areas and significant soil stockpiles on residential property. Heavy equipment
operating in close proximity to mature trees, landscaping, and front yards. Construction activities occurring directly in front of homes limiting normal use and access to property. Extended periods of disturbance affecting multiple residents throughout
the project area. The use of residents private water source without prior approval or authorization that were given a $20 water credit. Major flooding resulted from multiple water main breaks causing yards to flood and water to approach homes. driveways being poured
immediately before a long holiday weekend and leaving residents in their personal property blocked in with little to no notice and no opportunity to make alternative arrangements. Limited communication regarding construction schedules, impacts to property access
and changing timelines. Additional concerns raised by the resident. Questions regarding potential impacts to tree root systems and the long-term health of mature trees. Concerns about property restoration and whether disturbed areas will be returned to their pre-construction condition.
Concerns regarding emergency access to homes during periods when driveways and streets were obstructed. Concerns regarding communication, accountability, and the lack of advanced notice before significant impacts occurred. Why these photos matter? These photographs
demonstrate that the issue experienced during the West 10th Street utility improvement project were not isolated incidents affecting a single homeowner. They reflect the experiences of multiple residents throughout the project corridor. While infrastructure
improvements are important and necessary, residents should not be left without answers, without notice, or wondering whether their properties will ever be restored to the condition they were in before construction began. The goal of sharing these experiences is not to stop progress, but to ensure that future projects are managed with better
communication, greater transparency, and a stronger commitment from the residents who are directly impacted by them. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> These pictures do really say a lot and thank you for presenting.
>> Who's next? Yes, ma'am. Would you? >> No problem. >> I'll come to you, ma'am. >> We're going to deliver, ma'am. I'm part of the fixture here from years ago. >> I am Barbara Day and I have a little I
don't know. Can you hear me? Okay. All right. I'm one of the uh fixtures that was here back in the early uh probably 89 and on and uh and I left like in ' 05.
Let me tell you, this is the beginning of some things that went on then. And if you will go back and read, you will see that Lynhaven has been dealing with that fuel depot for many, many years. We have
some crisis going to face us. And I know that. I do too. Everyone does. But let me tell you, when Florida Power put their light poles down on Tennessee Avenue, you know where my power pole is sitting at? Because the e the all the
easements are so messed up with the property rights. They put it on top of the sewer uh manhole. So take that in consideration. I don't know who looked that over, but then you need to pay attention to these contracts that you're
handing out. Number one, panhandle engineering. I don't mind saying anything about their name because they happen to be on board with this city for years and years. They get all of they they oversee all the contracts.
When they oversee the contracts, is it a friend? Is it a relative? Or is it for the city of Lyn Haven? I have watched this and fought the battles by myself for many years till Richard Walker came along. I don't even know if Richard Walker's here or not,
but when he came along Oh, hey, Richard. Uh, he is the one that uh followed up behind me and my husband, which my husband is not here any longer, but it I feel like that so much is you're 65 and
you're older are being abused. It's all about sending the code people out to give citations and that's wrong because sometimes 65 and you they you know you have medical problems that come about if you don't have them hey look forward to
them and uh so therefore we got to really work on that. I had an episode with the people that are doing that uh project. I was coming back from the doctor and I told my daughter I said hey stop stop here. I got to say something
because all these heavy equipments happen to be parked in my yard, which I understand that, but I let them use my yard for a couple of months almost to park their trucks. And I didn't really like it, but you know, I let them go ahead. But when you start taking these
heavy bulldozers, you start coming on people's property, it does bother things. And one was driving. When we stopped, I said to the guy, "If you don't mind, would you move your vehicles out of my yard so that the the um guy
that's going to come and cut the grass will be able to uh take care of it." He because we've always cut the easement. I mean, as long as we've lived there, city's never had to do that. So, therefore, you know what he said? That
guy was still fussing with me till I got in my driveway and got in the house. He was still mad. I know he had to be cussing too because I said to him, you know, sir, that is not the way you treat people. So, you do not go and take those things and abuse people when you're
getting paid by the city. So, I don't know who oversees all of that because you should keep a close watch. I did watch some city worker trucks go by. Um, nobody ever stopped. They stopped the stop sign. I do look out the window a
whole lot. So, I kept up with those guys. But that Florida Power when they put that pole on my pro that sewer, there's going to be a problem. We have pictures of it. And if you need to see the pictures, that can be your little
project to take care of and stop that. That's not right because it's going to the fuel depot to Marina Island. That's where it's headed, all this stuff. So things are being peacemade. The fuel depot has been on board and I see some
of you sit up there and vote. You do not read the stuff that you're voting for. You can't. It takes forever to read this stuff. So you got to follow the city manager. He shouldn't be playing with his cell phone sitting up there while you all are
talking. City manager needs to be working for the people. So just watch all the videos. the things that I'm talking about, you watch the videos. So, the things I've had to say here today, city manager, don't be bothering me.
Okay? Thank you so much. Um, I would like to address Mrs. Day. I am so tickled to see you here. Um, it was years and years ago that you and Sammy would come to meetings. And I
would also agree with you completely. You have a beautiful yard and you have palms and I'm not a landscaper either, but your yard is beautiful and I can imagine having a bulldozer pull up even 3 ft onto your yard.
>> Well, I want you to and I have credit for this. When you called me about the sludge, I had no idea what sludge we were talking about, but but I called and Kiki, our finance person, I said, "What do we pay to have sludge hauled away?"
She said, " $54,000." I went, "Oh my god, what is it?" And then Chris told me just the other day, "It's all the garbage from the water thingy bobber down there by Kinsaw Park." Anyway, that's a different
subject, but I appreciate you and I just want you to know that. >> Yeah. >> One more thing. >> Can you hear me? >> Coming back. >> I hate to put this on you to have to do that. And I don't want to drop. Hold it.
Hold it. >> Okay, I got it. >> I got it. All right. Uh, I would like to go back to the year 22. Commissioners, please go back to 22. I'm sure they're all on video, too, because a lot of that
I picked up off in the video and then I done some homework. But I'm sure that maybe next commission meeting, Chris Lightfoot can explain to all of the people that live in this city why we when he went down to the commission Bay
County Commission meeting in 23, we have a plan put together and Chris is going to explain it to all of us. I want to better understand it because that's when I think we sold oursel. So maybe Chris
will be able to explain it and I can get the right story. All right, Chris, will that be okay? >> I know I've caught you off guard, but that's okay. That's okay. You remember year 22 and 23 when you were doing some plans in this city. You were public
works director. So just I've caught you off guard. So you just go ahead and you do your homework and then come back and explain it to all of us. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. so much. >> You're welcome. >> 2023. M
>> ma'am, do we know what plans we're referring to? >> No, you went down to the county meeting. It's there. >> Yes, please do. My hands. Uh, so if you want to go back um and pull some of the minutes and explain that to me. I'm
really I'm I'm trying to understand it, Chris. I really am. And I don't want to blame you for something, but let me tell you, you remember all the enclaves on Sarasota that's coming back to the city of Len
Haven. That's what we're h is happening to us today. Okay. Thank you. >> I'm not sure. Hey, Miss Stay. I haven't had a chance to meet you yet, but I'd really like to I'd really like to meet you after the
meeting if you'd hang around for a few minutes and uh the city manager is going to come make sure he gets exactly what you want to find out about so that we can get that for you. >> I don't have to document anything that city manager. >> Well, I want to make sure he's clear so
we can get it for you, ma'am. But I want to meet you, too. So, thank you. >> All right. Who's next? Mr. Walker. I saw Mr. Walker and then I see a hand over there. Ladies first. Okay. Ma'am, come on up. Do you want mic?
>> Come on up. And then Mr. Walk then, Mr. Walker, you're next. >> Hi. Thank you so much. >> Hi, ma'am. >> Uh, hi. Uh, my name is Annie Garrett and I'm the property owner at 1112 Tennessee Avenue and I'm adjacent to the days there. I've lived beside them now for 25
can't hear. >> Okay. For 25 years. >> Move it down a little bit. >> Move it down to your mouth. >> Better. >> Okay. So, I'm the neighbor to the days. I've lived beside them for about 25 years. Uh, one of the things I'd like to make a comment about as far as the
equipment because we have had a lot of equipment in our yards like you know two or three ton back hose, front loaders, vehicles, trucks, trailers, all kinds of stuff like that during this entire project with a sidewalk addition to Tennessee.
um State Avenue in Panama City, you know, they're working on that road and what they've done is they have closed that road to traffic and they have signs on either end that says, you know, close to through traffic and that may be an an option for all this equipment that
they've got to find somewhere to put it besides the resident yards, you know. So those streets that they're working in and that moment, you know, those portions of segments of those streets they're working in, you know, that they could park their vehicles in the street or maybe not impact uh the yards of the
residents that much, you know, so that might solve some of that problem. I don't know if that's a feasible thing to do or not, but that might be something to ask BCL. And just a comment about BCL, I did talk to them about some of the runoff that's now being created. It's coming from the easement of the
road, which normally it would run, you know, north down Tennessee. And I never had an issue in the yard with ponding uh significantly. It would in the driveway, but not, you know, in the yard, you know, where the grass is. And now whenever there's a heavy rain, I've got
significant ponding in the yard as a result on the easement area, but the area that I maintain in the front of the house and the front side of the house. And uh I talked to the gentleman I think from BCL and I think a P&D guy from the city and they said that they'd make sure
that they got that right before they left. But that's just going to be some addition to dirt and maybe a little bit of grass or something like that. But that day I spoke to that gentleman. They were very responsive, you know. So I I appreciate that. I know that is probably not everybody else's experience. Uh, and
maybe I got them on the tail end of all those complaints that they were hearing from other residents, you know, so they were maybe more willing to hear what I had to say. Uh, but uh, but yeah, that, you know, I just want to make that comment. And um
and and also with the improvements in the sewer and the water lines, would that cause a drop in the water pressure on anything downstream or south of the 10th Street location? >> So it very well could have. Um there
were many times where we had a a water main that was hit. So there was either off or they were flushing. So it could have or whenever they were flushing for the back te's they did a lot of flushing which could have brought the pressure down but if you're still having a pressure issue I'll get with you after this and we'll have our water operator come out Monday and check it out.
>> Yeah it is it you know well that's what I wanted to ask would that be is that going to be permanent you know because I have noticed a reduction in the pressure it's not significant but it is definitely less than what it was >> 1114 Tennessee >> uh 1112 Tennessee and I don't know if
the days are experiencing the same problem or not. I don't know if they're on the same line that I am, but I've definitely noticed a difference in that. >> It doesn't improve. Let us know. >> Yeah. And I Yeah, Chris, I think has taken a note there for me. Uh, thank you. That's all I've got.
>> Thank you, ma'am. >> Thank you, Miss Garrett. Mr. Walker, come on up. >> Good to be back. I I never went anywhere. I just took I took a vacation from >> the elected officials
>> purposely. Thank you and congratulations. Uh there are nothing's free in this town and nothing's free anywhere. Okay. Um you get delusioned into
things like this that we're facing now. What happens here is the citizens have to put up with it. And they do put up with it. They're very gracious. This is a community. It was a community. It should still be. However, they do put up with a lot of things. For example, the
area you're working in six months out of the year is blocked off by our police two times a day. There is traffic in that area that can't go anywhere because it's
lined up from the school all the way down to Tennessee Avenue and probably into Panama City. That blocks off that area lot. Don't laugh when we assume that this is being done for the fuel depot. It is. The fuel
depot is not there anymore. That's owned by Marina Island LLC. It's Linhaven property. your taxium. You're doing everything with it. Let's drop the fuel depot thing. You're doing this in conjunction with
what could possibly be. Be advised, and I'm I'm telling you, I've been here a long time. This fuel depot when it comes on is not going to be any easy pill, any easier than what you're going through right now. This is going to dump
something like you've never imagined into the area. So get ready for that if it comes about. We've been at this for 15 years with the fuel depot Marina Island LLC. Hasn't
come about. In 1911, property in Linhaven was bought by Mr. Lynn and a consortium of people. They owned the whole thing. Then they put it up for lots. soldiers came down,
good retirement, everything. Hey, you can hunt, you can fish, you can do, you can survive on your lot. This was the place again. They owned the property. You did not You did not have a government. You
had nothing. Okay, that means Mr. Lynn designed the streets, set it up, set up the plots, set up the lots, put it up for sale. They owned all of it. You did not.
Later on, Mr. Lynn took a certain portion of the lots and gave it to the city that was formed. The city then rents it out to the power company,
the television companies, you the companies that have radios, and they charge and they get the money and they give it to you. You're making money off of our land.
This is the citizens again taking this on the statement nothing's free. Most of the people in this town that have a piece of property don't understand there are easements that they have there they don't even know about.
Okay. Easements. [snorts] If this city doesn't get your taxes, you don't have your property. You lose it. It's gone. You have a day in court. Maybe, maybe
you don't. What I'm getting at here is the people in this area are going to be burdened now with a big project. Yes, it's a big project. Will it be good? Yes. Bllelock,
police officer. Block and I and Margot sat in the elementary school and designed the CRA project dealing with the sidewalks down to Tennessee Avenue to protect the kids getting back to school. Gone past that now. This is
quite quite an undertaking down there. Understand this. The citizens count. They can't get out of their driveways now. They're blocked by police twice a day. There's not
enough parking up there. In 1911, 1913 through 1944, we made a mistake. We built a school there. And then what we did is we put houses around it. You have that problem too up at Hawks
Landing. I know. I know what you're facing. Let's do ourselves a favor. I think you better take a good look and plan a little bit better as we go ahead here. >> Yes, sir. >> As this thing comes on. And this is good. This is a workshop. This is good.
Get the people's views. They're not being stepped on. They're not being hurt, but they're being pinged on and they're being restricted. And that's not why they came here. Welcome back. Good to see you guys
again. >> Stay with it. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Mr. Basher, what do you want to just sit? >> Yeah. [snorts] >> He just had foot surgery. Yeah, we're giving him a break. >> I'm just a little more crippled than
usual. Um, just a couple things. I'm going to repeat some of what some people have already had to say, but I'm going to give you a little background on me because some people may know, some people may not know. I've ran run pretty goodized projects on civil engineering projects, storage or storm water
projects, large equipment projects, computer projects. I've run a lot of different projects a pretty good size. Um, part of what I see right now is, and I asked Chris about this before, the city doesn't really have a manual, a property management policy or procedures
or manual. They've got some guidelines from the state of course, but there's no real policy or procedures. And that's something that I think they would would benefit from is by having a set procedure because if you've got any particular employee in the city running a project, they need to have some
guidelines and know what's expected and know what they need to communicate with. I would also recommend that on any project that exceeds the city manager's purchasing power that y'all hire an outside dedicated project manager for that project. and he's the one that can
end the fingerpointing between the contractor and this person and that person because that happens. I would just recommend thinking there might be a threshold where you want to hire an individual that's that does that. That's that's what they do. It's project management. So you don't have these kind
of things. Um one item I was going to mention which Mrs. Garrett mentioned on this particular project or large project, you have a lay down yard. you have a yard where you can lay your equipment or park your vehicles and if it's closing streets off or parts of streets off, that's something that can
be done to keep it out of people's yards. So, she was spot on on that to do a dedicated lay down yard. One thing that you hold your contractors responsible for is housekeeping. You don't want them leaving a mess every day. Part of it at the end of the day is getting your tools up, getting the trash
up, making the site safe, and safe is a big deal. Um, you've got to be safe. in a a a project site that has clutter and litter everywhere, you're going to hurt people, whether it's citizens, the contractors, or city employees. You've got to clean it up every day. Um, one
thing that you may consider would be contractor qualifications, which would include past project satisfaction, their safety record, whether they stay in budget, if they come in on time, and if there's minimal change orders. These are the kind of things that and I realize I
come from industry. So we had a different setup on projects. We could do different things than the government can do. But some of this stuff I think the city's capable of doing when they're rating their bids coming in and they can correct me if I'm wrong. I know there's some some guidelines you have to abide
by, but you may be able to add some stuff in there on qualifications of the biders. Um and also as Mr. Mr. Deweiler said you want to look at their change order histories or they have minimal change orders and project creep. If you're getting a lot of lot of project
creep, you've got problems in the engineering end of it or you've got a contractor that's milking it. One or the other. [snorts] The city's the ultimate owner of a project. They're the ones that ultimately ends the fingerpointing. If my contractor is saying, "Well, the FPL did it." And FPL's saying, "No, Teco
Tico did it." And Tico's saying, "No, the city did that." Somebody's got to step up and say, "Listen, we got to fix it first, and we'll figure out who's going to pay for it, but we got to fix it. And we can't sit and point fingers and sit there and wait for nothing to happen. That's that's part of
running a project. And that's where a project managers really key. They've got to be able to do that." And really, that's that's all I've really got to say. It's just some things I know a lot of this y'all do, but there's no solid in the concrete written policy or anything like that.
>> Go ahead. No, go ahead. I just wanted to say that uh oh I just wanted to say that the housekeeping thing is a big thing too. It needs to go on the list. Many days I would go by and there would be piles of stuff and there were no workers. They were gone for the day and
I'm I I thought more than once, oh my, that is a mess. And safety goes along with the housekeeping. when you have a 5-ft hole in the ground and there's nothing around it, any 10year-old could fall in it and and get hurt. So, I think
I'm I am I've listed housekeeping. I'm also going to list housekeeping and safety. Uh should be a daily a daily thing for sure. >> Yeah. And and you can you can think well the contractors are supposed to be responsible for their own safety programs, etc. But if somebody gets hurt
on a site, ultimately whoever gets hurt, if they're going to sue, they're going to go after the deep pockets. So the city is going to become liable at some point. So you have to consider that safety record. China, I think you brought up some really good points and I think we're on to something, Chris. You had mentioned
the mailer from what DOT does and from going to TPO meetings. DOT also on a on any project does a they do a workshop or they do they do a public information they get get it out there. I think we we could we could learn from that, you
know, and I know Commissioner War mentioned that we could at the beginning of a project, we could do a workshop, but I would think to keep things going that maybe we can attach uh a hotline, just a regular phone call, even if it's
it's to a department or um where if there's a problem on a certain day that the resident can call a number. It could be just a regular city number, but highlighted and leave a message. And the message would go to the commission, it
would go to the contractor, it would go to the city manager, and we'd all be informed as to what's going on um based on based on what message someone left, and we could react to it daily. And that way, if if the contractor, you know,
didn't clean up a mess or something, we'd learn about it that day. So if if we attached a phone number or a hotline to the project, people could call in and we could get these problems solved a little quicker than to let them fester. So
uh one last thing, um when I was in industry, we had a in our purchasing department, which would be procurement here, they maintained a list of contractors that had worked in the past. They had all their paperwork, all their documentation, their safety records,
their bonds, all of that was in a file. So if they submitted something, they didn't have to go through all of that paperwork. They already knew they were qualified. I know we get some of that, I'm sure. But if you have a dedicated file system, whether it's and you've got a procurement manager now that can
maintain that kind of stuff, you've got a list of people that that you know can do the work and they'll they may or they may not send RF. What is it? not RFQP, >> RFPs in um you can go to that file so
you know they're qualified. If there's something missing from it, you can pull it and say, "Okay, well, this is it." Call them up, say if it's still there. It just makes it easier, more streamlined and quicker. >> One other thing, Mr. Basher, I really, really like the concept of a project manager. We really and truly, and Miss Haley, I see you shaking your head and
Zach, too, we really need a belly button, a professional belly button. Spearhead Yes sir. Well, we're reviewing engineer too, but uh we have this on the federal side. I come from the Air Force side. And so when you have a project manager, you have a person riding herd, right?
They are literally overseeing. They are the the government's belly button working with the contractors, working with all the different subcontractors to make sure that things stay to use a Jimmy Buffett is in between the navigational beacons, right? They stay within the normal parameters. Yards get
corrected. uh broken issues get fixed, whatever the case may be, uh we need to really really think through that and figure out a way to do that. If we do some type of uh assignment with the existing people we got or we carve on a new position, however we do that, we
really need somebody riding shotgun on these major projects to close that out. And so when Miss Haley or Miss Day have a problem, they can call one person and that one person knows exactly what's going on with that project and they can really quickly kind of connect dots. Um
go, "Well, we're having that." And then go out directly to the contractors and say, "Hey, sir, we're having this issue." Right? And they can mitigate those issues a lot easier and quicker instead of just kind of the whack-a-ole, right? uh trying to work across and and
poor communication or not the greatest of communication. I think that would help quite a bit. So, Johnny, thank you for that, sir. >> Yes, ma'am. Hang on. We'll get you a microphone. Hang on. I'll I'll take your mine, >> Michelle.
>> Okay. Miss Day, we're going to have you next, ma'am. >> No, ma'am. Hang on, Miss Basher. And then we'll bring you a microphone. >> Yes, ma'am. Miss Basher, >> good afternoon. I also have done project management mostly on the light
commercial and um homeowners. So, um working with homeowners is something you have to give good service. And you've got a bunch of homeowners you're dealing with here. But when y'all
did the um 9inth Street and 8th Street um sidewalks, the contractors parked in We live on a dirt road, so they were parked in our yard. The house next door to to the road was vacant. They were parking in that
yard. They were >> They blocked our driveway with a porta potty. >> Yeah, we had to have a porta potty move so we could get out of our yard. I'd forgotten about that. [laughter] Um, but
I don't know what behavior you expect from the subcontractors and the people that are actually on the ground, but I had policies that I enforced from smoking to, you know, leaving trash where they took their breaks, all that kind of stuff. Well, these guys were in
their big Bubba trucks. Um, were parked all over the place. Um, they left uh rebar in our road one time. I saw it and able to move it, but I could have had a tire pierced. Um, but they were
fighting, they were yelling, they were physically fighting. Um, they were taking breaks in that neighbor's backyard. Um, that was the house was vacant, but still they shouldn't have been there. Um, and
trash. They left so much trash, but the the thing that they never kept the two years or however long it's been since that project's been finished, they've never come back and done the the um curb to Louisiana Avenue. We're
filling it up ourselves with rocks over and over. We've been told that, you know, there's no um reclaimed asphalt, there's no this, there's no that. But they will not come and fix that. We've been fixing it ourselves. So, um, and then the side, they didn't
take care of the side. It's just all >> Louisiana. >> Well, no, that's the 8th Street. We just live off of eight street where you live. >> Okay. >> So, >> we're going to run that curb to ground for you. Chris already got a note.
>> Okay. I've asked for two years. Thank you. >> Well, that's first I've heard of it. We We gonna get it. [laughter] Well, I may surprise you. >> Well, I may surprise you. >> Oh, well, thank you. You >> there. I, you know, I'm going compliment
a few things now. Um, number one, I would love to compliment the fire department. I know Mr. uh Lightfoot is looking to negotiate with the county. So, you all pray. Okay.
Um, we and I realize that there's got to be a lot of cutting, but right, does the charter say that we are responsible to keep the police in the fire department? I believe so. I don't know. Chris probably can tell us all of that. Uh,
also too, when my husband was so sick, the fire department was on the scene in less than minutes. And let me tell you, those four guys, they worked hard to keep him living. It
took the EMS over 45 minutes to get to my house. That's a that's a long time when somebody's having a heart attack. So therefore, uh it's a lot to take in consideration if you've never had to use
your fire department. And I feel so honored to have them. They're just wonderful people. And those guys were so nice to my husband trying to keep him going. He lived uh almost two weeks after he got back to theos after he got
to the hospital. So I'll leave a lot of that up to him and the good Lord above. It gave us two weeks longer with him. Also, it was just a sudden thing that happened. And so you have to be aware, be appreciative of the fire department.
We're so fortunate to have them. We are so fortunate to have a good police department. I know bad went on, but it doesn't make all those guys bad. You know what I mean? Uh you can have bad in everything you do. Until you get that bad out of there, you won't have nothing
but just a lot of problems. So that's what I think you have to work on at this time that you got to think about what's going on in the city that's causing this to happen. So, if you don't mind, just remember a lot of this took place back
in 2020 and 2018 on down. So, go read is all I can tell you. Just please read. I'm so concerned about the senior issues. I have a few little facts I would like to talk
mention to you. And one will be that's my honor about the fire and I really appreciate them. I really do. And uh there's we should all be thankful to have them. And I'm thankful for the fire chief too. I mean for the um fire uh
police department because number one they are always on the scene. And we've got some good guys in there. Some of them been there for years. You know, don't go out and shop for someone. Just go ahead and think about somebody that's there already. Give them a chance.
uh you know we have I don't know if you've ever thought about this or not but we have h we have approximately 3600 65 and older that live in this city of Linhaven be honored they have the knowledge right you follow some of your
65s they're pretty smart I'm so blessed to be able to have a good mind right now not a good body but a good mind so uh anyway there happens the census update was uh from 65 to 69 we have 1,137.
From 7074 we have 1,020. From 75 to 79 we have 660. From 80 to 84 we have 452. We have a total of 85
332 that live in this city that are 85 years and older. So be appreciative of them. They know they have a lot of history in this city. Don't dump them because there something's wrong. Just be appreciative
of them. I go back to the uh CRA on uh I think it's uh 10th Street and um Michigan if I'm correct. How about doing some homework on 10th Street in Michigan and come on take care of go down 10th
Street. Take care of all of that. see what's been going on with the CRA. Come on down T 10th Street, circle around Linhaven School, check out the CRA, and then go back to the person that's in charge of that CRA, talk to him, get him
to produce some receipts, get him to show things that we need to see. Okay, that to me is the way to do it. So, thank you so much, >> Miss Day. One quick thing, ma'am. Your point is very, very well taken on police
and fire. Police, fire, and public works are the very core of who we are as a city. And for what it's worth, um, it hit it close to home. My next door neighbor, she was an honorary aunt of mine. Her widow is still living next door to me. I called her my honorary
aunt uncle for 13 years. We lost her last August 1st and uh the little uh medical tech, she was battling Parkinson's. The little medical tech that was staying with her came over and knocked on my door and said, "Will you come please check on your aunt?" She was in heart failure. Got her on the floor,
started doing CPR. Told the girl to call. I live in Hawks Landing. So, station two, Firehouse 2, was just right outside, right? They were there in about 3 minutes. And there was one lady and three guys that rolled in. And God bless them. They did an amazing job. They they
stabilized her and she lived another couple hours before we lost her. But your point is very very well taken. So, please make sure that that is turned on. It takes It's simple. It's so easy. I might could even show you.
>> Hey, Harold, you in the back. Uh, make sure we're running captions. Okay. City of Glen Haven Commission listening to them on YouTube, sir. >> So, yeah, it's on YouTube, but if you go to subtitles, it won't let you turn it on
>> on audio. >> Yeah, it won't let you do it. >> Okay. Okay. Miss Day, we're going to fix that. That's an easy quick kill. So, thank you for that. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you for that.
>> Yes, Mr. Scay. Nice shirt. Come on up. >> I've seen one of two of those before. We match. Yeah, I figure I got a rocket if you gave it to me, right? Especially if I'm coming here. Um, I didn't bring my three though because I saw they were untimed. I won't take forever though.
Um, I'm going to start off asking a few questions. I'm going to say some things that probably people are not going to like to hear, but I promise I'll finish off with some positivity. Um, to start with, Chris, can you answer how many individuals we have that work in the procurement team?
Like how many people are responsible for managing the contracts and purchases that the city does? One person. >> Okay. How many active projects like that would require a contracts person to do contract auditing in the
field are active right now that you know of? >> You mean construction projects? >> Construction projects or e even doing quality checks on other services that we are contracted for like lawnscape. So, we have two active construction projects. This one and the Tennessee
Avenue sidewalks who look like they're running together, but they're two separate projects. And both of those have a CI project manager contractor. >> Okay. And on average, how many purchases in a month is procurement making? >> Oh, I [clears throat] would have no idea off hand on that.
>> Do you think it's more than a dozen? >> Oh, for sure. >> More than two dozen? >> Oh, it's every bit of a hundred. I mean, >> so it's definitely a full-time job just to sit in the office and do the procurement. I would expect nothing less. I applied for that position. I didn't even get a call back or schedule
or anything. I would assume it's because of the salary requirement that I have. I have 17 years of experience in government contracting. I asked for a six figure six figure salary because that's what the experience and a in a particular position like that truly
requires. If you're not going to give somebody that, you need to have a properly staffed department. But how do we do all of that when we have a $6 million deficit? How do we do all that when we're about to lose $2.4 million in uh Advalorum Homestead tax, you know,
revenue? Everything that's been being asked for, and I was listening to this on my drive back from Pensacola today, um cost money. And in a time when we're talking about cutting, cutting, cutting. When I was active duty Air Force and I did construction projects, um I would go
out to these projects and I'd be managing five to six projects at a time, I would be out every single day away from the office. Not only was it an escape to get out of the office, but it was part of the job to go out and see what was going on, make sure everything
was going to plan, field complaints, just all of the quality assurance that goes with being in the contracting profession. Um, do you feel that Mr. Bracie, our procurement person, if he had to do
quality assurance in the field, he would be able to get his job done? >> No. That's >> okay. >> Is that why we're relying on these subcontractors, these CI companies? >> So, yes, we do not have the staff to do CI in-house.
>> Okay. Um, and so when you look into and I haven't I I looked a little bit into what our CI does, but you'll know more than me. what kind of I guess uh like what what are the thresholds in which they are out there on our behalf [snorts] fielding stuff like resident
complaints, making sure driveways are not blocked, like how often are they expected to go check on a project? >> So, it depends on the project. So, for this project, it's resident inspections. They're there 8 hours a day. If we have other projects, um it could it's just what the budget can hold. So, if you
have a another project, they may be a 25%, they may be a 50%. It's just what the funding source is, how much the city can afford. Um, sometimes there is no CI because there is no budget for it and you're relying on city staff to go do it. >> Okay. Uh, can you say what the acronym
CI is? >> Construction engineering inspection? >> And so in order to be a CI, what kind of professional background does that person have? >> So it depends on the project. I mean, typically if you have a roadway project, they would have different types of
certification through DOT. If it's a utilities project, they would have not necessarily any certifications, but just experience with water and sewer and underground utilities projects. Um, really just depends on what the project entails. >> Okay. So, if [snorts] uh the city wanted
to hire somebody full-time to do that, they would have to have a wide birth of experience. Would it would you say it would be a hard to find position? >> Not a hard to find position. I mean, it would >> be expensive. >> 60 to 110 grand annually. >> Okay. Um,
okay. I think that covers all the questions I have. So, now kind of more directing it at the commission. And I know Jamie's back there and he can hear too. Um, obviously I said we have a $6 million deficit. Everything we're talking about, project managers and and all these different quality things,
hotlines, it all requires staff time. It all requires money and we're in a deficit. We're in a budget crisis. So, we're going to try to sit here and balance all of this out. And that's what you guys have to be thinking about. I mean, um, just to just to assist with
procurement and have a second person would cost you easily another 50,000 a year to have somebody that can go out and check from a procurement standpoint and make sure that all these projects are going smoothly. And they're not checking the engineering standards like Chris just talked about with CI. That's
just making sure somebody said earlier, making sure all the contract things are being met. Um, that's one that that's mostly the piece I did when I was active duty Air Force. Um, and then just to, you know, go through and and deal with all of the other
things that come up on the contract side, there's so much more than I think you guys even realize. And it's because you guys don't do the the government contracting. And it's not a fault of yours. It's just not the career field you're in. Uh, there's so much more. And I think we as as a city, we've put more
on one a oneperson staff department than this city can can be bear moving forward. Um I mean if Mr. Bracie has uh his kids have something at school or a doctor's appointment or he has something that one person department is empty
during that time. Um, I'm not saying we need to have a robust procurement staff, but I'm saying we have a single point of failure and and probably an over um an an over um trying to think of the word here.
Basically, we had too much on his plate. So, I think that's something you all ought to think about moving forward is the things you're asking for. Yes, they're going to cost money and do we have it in the budget or can we find something in the budget? Um, I mean for me, like I said, I asked for a six six
figure salary to do that job because that's what I get now. And I have easily two, if not three times the amount of active contractors at any one given time than he just mentioned. Um, and that's
not just the physical stuff, but that's the um the purchases and stuff, too. And the portfolio that I manage is three times the city budget. Um, Zach probably could come up here and talk to you similarly. Zach would probably be a better project manager for the city than I would be because I only do contracts
and he's actually done project management. But that's the kind of stuff you're talking about here and you're needing for the city. Um, also a big glaring hole that we have is who's the city's public information officer?
River Jordan. >> Okay. Does she does she have cuz I've Okay. I've never once seen her on an interview for the city yet. I know there's a podcast. I I I could not tell you what she looks like because I've never seen her face on behalf of the
city ever that I think. There's no clips on Facebook. I've not seen her at commission meetings talking. I've not seen her on the news. So, if you're a public information officer, how is it that you're liazing with the public and
providing information if we don't even know what you look like? So typically on all of our interviews the the news or any of the media outlets would want to discuss either with myself or a department head, the police chief, the fire chief depending on what the event is. So she coordinates all of that between.
>> Okay. Um so a lot of times like you know uh various presidents have the person that walks into the the meeting room, right? And they field all the questions from the reporters. Um, obviously we don't have that kind of news cycle here, but one recommendation I would make is
maybe get maybe get the PIO more publicized and more familiar. Um, you talk about a hotline. We could put a portal on the website, someplace for people to put uh reports out. Somebody said the signs, the little realtor
signs, throw a QR code on there. I think just about everybody with a smartphone can knows how to use a QR code. if you don't have your PIO put together a video on teaching how um but scan those cards out or those QR codes when they're out at projects and say like hey if you have
an issue or if you have questions you know scan here contact us that's the kind of improvements that we can make with that information information flow um and last lastly I just want to hit with some positivity the things that you mentioned earlier I was driving so I could only listen and I couldn't watch
but the things you mentioned that have gotten updated the things that are getting updated on GIS I'm a heavy user of GIS. I like to navigate in there and see where different things are. I mean, that's a huge value ad to this community that I think most of the public won't know just
how big of a value that is. And this project, even though this project's had a lot of issues and complaints and struggles, I think this is a great learning opportunity for our community because there are many large projects to come. If if who I don't remember who,
but whoever said this was like the biggest project we'll face, I think that's well short of what we what we uh are actually looking at going forward. I think we're going to see more improvements to the community in the next 10 years and some of them may even
be bigger than this. Um so I think we got a lot of valuable information. I know there was a lot of commentary about other projects in the past. Um, but the way I see it, it's still a great city to live in. I'm still wanting to be here.
Um, and I think everybody up here wants the same thing, which is to just have happy residents and a happy place to live. You're never going to make everybody happy. But if you overcommunicate, I think you can get about 90%. So, thank
you. >> I have a question. >> Yeah. >> You're talking to an old person now. Okay. >> What is GIS? GIS. What is the actual acronym? Cuz I just typed in >> geographical information system. It's basically the map of the city that shows our rightway lines. Um we have flood
plane markings, flood mark flood zones, water, sewer. >> It's a great resource, Judy, because uh a lot of times, so like, okay, so an example for Linhaven neighbors, it's a great resource to see if people that are trying to join that Facebook group, if they're a property owner. Um I use it a
lot to to get rid of this. Like there's a lot of scammers that try to join Facebook groups and it's a good way like somebody will throw in an address and I'll look it up and I'll be like, "Oh, you know, although it could be a renter that that's like that address is not even a house. It's like a business, so
obviously that's not theirs." And I also use it to find out like what land uses are on certain um properties. Like for example, recently we talked about data AI data centers which there's a distinction between regular data centers and AI data centers. And we don't
currently have any land within City of Linhaven that is large enough and has a land use code that could inhabit a AI data center. So I think we we're at an advantage doing our moratorum and stuff than other communities, but it's a
really useful tool. Um I spent a lot of time talking with uh I forget her name, the new planning >> Gina. >> Gina uh talking with Gina. There's actually a lot of updates that she's wanting the county to make to it. Um, so what I would recommend is, you know,
take 30 minutes and talk with Gina and she could probably explain to you just how useful that tool really is, not just for the city, but for residents, too. >> Um, so yeah, >> I just don't like the acronym thing. >> Yeah, >> I'm tired of >> guess what it means.
>> I know. I'm tired of acronyms, too. I deal with like a thousand a day. I know somebody actually called out Sam in a meeting saying uh he didn't know what uh he asked what ALPR was in a meeting and I was like the guy works in the government like me he probably dealt with you know400 acronyms earlier in the
day and when you're up there you're just not thinking in the context so I don't really like using acronyms I like to say out what it is but some of them it's just easier to say the acronym because it's a mouthful of words >> so yeah >> Mr. Hey, one other thing I'll add is uh
your point is well taken on uh procurements or a a CI officer I think would actually be a really really good thing. Um we don't currently have that but it's become glaringly obvious to me with this 10th Street project which was
a massive project. Commissioner War I think you said that it's probably one of the biggest projects we'll undertake on for our time on the commission. Um, anything worth doing right is worth doing right the first time. Right. >> Agreed. >> And honestly, Tenth Street community
folks, we as a city team let y'all down. We did not do this as well as we could have. What we can do though is turn this negative into a positive and figure out how to not repeat the hiccups that we've had in this project so that other sweet
little ladies like Miss Day don't have bulldozers in their front yard um for months on end and problems that way. And we have a basically a project manager to actually manage the project, work with the contractors, make sure that if we
need to shut down like State Avenue, we do shut down part of State Avenue. Is it a pain in the butt for those of us trying to get the 23rd Street from here? Sure. But it works for them and it's short-term and it's construction limited, right? So work smarter, not harder. We need to do that. So we're
going to try to make right and we're going to do our utmost to do right by you 10th Street area residents to make sure that your yards and your property is restored to what it was before the project. Going forward, I want to make sure we do our very best to make sure
the experiences that y'all had that have not been good are not repeated. And if one or two people start having that problem, we get our bird dog program manager out there go, "No, no, no, no, no." And they spot fix it. They correct it on spot and it does not replicate and
continue. Right. horses out of the barn here, but we're going to try to corral them up and give them oats and make sure they're uh they're good and uh make sure this doesn't happen again. >> And just a final parting thought for the residents. Um obviously this is a eye
openening experience for the residents and city alike on what needs to happen for projects going forward. So when the city implements these improvements, um you know that residents owe it in return to pay attention to what's going on. you know, uh, sending out a postcard
in the mail is a great idea. How many people throw crap away? Um, you know, exactly. So, the residents really have a responsibility to pay pay attention to what's going on to around them. I mean, situational awareness is paramount. I know you guys and Jamie know that. Um, situational awareness is everything. Pay
attention to what's going on. You know, there's construction on your road and it's not to your property yet. Well, what direction is it moving? How many days until it gets to your driveway? Oh, you know, you have a doctor's appointment coming up. Judy, you mentioned that it's not going to be possible to never ever block somebody's
driveway. But with proper communication and advanced notice, the person can be notified, hey, we expect to block your driveway for this project between this date and this date. And then the resident says, "Oh, I have a doctor's appointment that day. I need to make arrangements. Maybe park across the
street or have somebody come pick me up or something." You know, >> I also uh I and I want to hear the next thing from Haley, too. But I also believe again, it's my age. I throw away stuff like that. If I get a postcard, I go more garbage and I just throw it
away. >> Yeah. >> However, if you have 20 houses, and I don't even think there's that many in this project area on 10th Street, >> what's wrong with a sticky note? I don't care how simple it is. put it on their
door and say, "We're going to be in your neighborhood tearing things up next Monday >> and we'll keep you posted how long we're going to be here." I live on Virginia. I know they're coming my way and I I expect
>> I'll throw that your way. A note on my door saying, "We are going to pave your street next week, so park your car somewhere else." >> For clarity, do you go in through the garage, side door, or front door so they know what door to put it on? Right. Well, I have a lot of people, right? But a lot of people don't I so I door dash
deliver and a lot of people don't use their front doors. Um side doors stuff. So there's just But it's all about overcommunication. So it I mean >> go out and knock. If you don't get an answer, leave a note. Send the postcards. Overcommunicate. Put up the
yard signs in the area. Hey, this project's coming through. Um just overcommunicate. Overcommunicate. Overcommunicate. So thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Haley wants to >> Miss Haley and then Zach and then
>> I saw a hand raised over here. I thought >> Oh, Nelson. Yeah. >> Yeah, sure. >> Would you like a mobile microphone? >> Come on up, ma'am. All right. So, >> get it right down there to your bottom.
Just Yeah. An adult. There you go. There you go. I know. [laughter] >> I know. >> Is it gonna fall out now? >> Yeah. >> You can't cuz my kids. Okay. Okay. So, uh you guys already know from
the town hall uh because I was here before and so my background is technology and looking at systems and workflows. I'm sorry. looking at systems and workflows and things that might be a gap. I know everybody's getting tired, so I'm going to cut to the quick of this. Um, the one thing that I do is we
frequently will review what's going on and say what went well, do a hot wash if you're familiar with that. We look at the what's what do we need to sustain, what do we need to improve, what do we need to look at. So, if it's okay, I want to share just a couple things that went well and then I will probably just let you read my papers because I have some suggestions. They're overlaps with
things that Mr. Bishier said and Mr. great with a couple of caveats to it. So, uh the one thing that I do want to say is the uh Bryce from Deubberry, he is a young man that's on the project and when I complained about the void, there was a void in our yard that was actually
caused by workmanship unfortunately. And I said to Bryce, cuz these people have been in my yard for 6 months, I feel like they're friends. I'm probably at this point. I literally know almost all of them by name, it seems like. And I said, there's a void. And he said, I think you're right. He said, "This is not normal. Something is wrong." And I
would call and I would say, "Something is wrong. Something was wrong." And they would come and fill it. Well, they finally this last time after another rain, he came up and he talked to me and he said, "I knew that you were." It was just, it was so nice to have that empathetic instead of being dismissed because in many conversations I was dismissed. And that was really, really
hard. Um Tori from ECSC is another one I would love to call out. He went out of his way to come when things were not going well and things were not right. And Tori said, "This is not okay. I'm really sorry you're having to go through this. Like it was six o'clock at night. I think he came to our house one time and I just couldn't believe it because
he was showing us compassion and we were not able to access our front yard for 5 months and that was difficult because we had to go on the side that was unlit and I was trying to be patient. I tried to be really respectful this entire time and just to have that human component from ECSC um because most of the crew
was very polite to us but they didn't have a lot of power to do things and he took the initiative to do that. I really appreciate it. The third thing is I do want to highlight Chris. I talked to Commissioner Warick not too long ago and Oh, there you are. Yes. And one of the things that we talked about truly is
that's an oversaturated position. And I called Chris after meeting with Commissioner Tender about feeling just so tired of not being able to access our property. And it wasn't a situation of not being warned. It's that I would go out for dropping off a child. I would come back and 20 minutes later
completely blocked off. No notice. So, it's not like I wouldn't have prepared. I would have if they had told me. And so, the communication piece was not there. I was getting frustrated. I talked to you. And then we called Chris. Chris came on a Friday night on a weekend. I know he was tired. I know he was ready to get home. And I really do
appreciate it. And then he said, "We're going to make this happen." I did get a driveway. Thank you. So, now we are safely and now we do have a new issue that's emerged. Chris was the one that helped us with the scope because I said, "The workmanship I've been saying since January, something is wrong. the sh the you know whenever they do the slope the
fall for your sewer line they had to replace more than 20 feet on our property way beyond so like they were up by our house I do understand that's part of public works so that's okay and I'm so thankful that he was willing to do the scope because there was a problem with the workmanship and sewage was backing up to my house this was not work
we did and it was not we didn't have any inspections I was asking for that so I'm really thankful Chris has been responsive and he did show up whenever and I maybe it's because you're tired of me emailing you I don't know [laughter] But I try to thank him in every single email. I always say, "Thank you for your service to our city and for doing
things." So, those are the things that went really well. Um, and in general, everybody was really polite. They were a little bit messy. They didn't clean up very well, but we'll deal with that. Um, the next thing is I I put in the packet some of the patterns that I observed.
Uh, it's not a packet. It's actually just a one-pager. Um, there were things like being dismissed, you know, lack of access, things that everybody's already described. So, I don't want to reiterate it, but I do want to talk about the solutions because I think that's really important to say, what could we do to go forward? This has been really sad. I
don't want it to happen again. I was really frustrated. We went and stayed over at family's house quite a bit because it was so disruptive. Our water pressure has also been completely that I will email you about that if you'd like. We can talk about it. Um, our water pressure has been down since this project started. So, uh, a lot of that
has not been restored. We have rocks in our dirt. It did not get graded. They just the the sod is just on there. It did not get graded. There's still tons of concrete. There's a big gravel dump in my yard that just got left there. And so, it's so there's there's lots that needs to be cleaned up, but I do think
that it's been an oversaturated situation. So, I was thinking to myself, knowing the budget constraint, and because my background is AI automation and workflows and system setup, there are tools that we have. So, there's three asks that I have. Number one, I think you have enough volunteers, especially in this room, to have a
volunteer committee that would help with some of the resident advocacy and communication. I really do. I mean, it probably wouldn't be to the point of postcards and things, but it would be free and it's something to consider because you have people that obviously love this city. So, some kind of support for the public information officer as a
resident committee. That's one. The second thing is um I think that the uh the reporting system it's really interesting because I have thought the same thing. You don't even have to set up a hotline. I'm pretty sure I already know what operating system and
technology that you guys use. There are tools within the software that you already have that can be set up with work workflows so that residents can self-report and then you can have that compiled. They can take that information and then they can uh like the software can do an assessment for you. They can
send you a brief each week and say this is how many and it's completely automated. You don't have to pay anybody. You don't have to do anything. And it'll go to you and it'll say this is what's going on. Here's some escalation issues that haven't gotten addressed. This has been 60 days. This has been 90 days. Something's really really wrong. And you don't have to pay
a person to do that. Residents can self-report um and do what they need to. And so and then the third thing was the public information which they've already covered in nauseium so I'm not going to go over that. So anyway that's those are the suggestions that I would have and I would love to see us really do better on
the next project that we do and I think it was not because of anybody's malicious intent. I really do I actually have a lot of empathy for Chris. That's I wouldn't have your job if you want to know the truth. So that's it. >> Miss Nelson, thank you. And that is a perfect idea of a volunteer committee to
support the city manager and the PIO. I don't know why the heck we haven't thought of that before as a city. Maybe they did do that in the past, but we've not been doing it recently. Um I think that would actually be great. Even if it's just two or three people within a
major project, you have belly buttons there. They could work with a project manager. They could work with the PIO, the city manager. They could be kind of the point people with their neighbors to let them know and to back channel issues and complaints and concerns and
>> we need that >> we don't want this to happen again. >> I said we need a resident advocate. we don't have anybody that I can go to. And I mean and I really I did feel bad going to Chris because he's managing like a resident advocate as a volunteer or something because Chris is managing
multi-million dollar project and I'm calling him about you know what a $10,000 $3,000 you know sewer lateral and all this stuff like that's that's just not in his scope. It's not fair. And so if we could help him in that way I think it would be really good. the city manager and I were literally having
a conversation and we didn't use that exact term resident advocate. I think we called it citizen advocate or something very similar, but it was to give our uh our city commissioners and mayors as they rotate off. >> Yeah. >> An opportunity to continue serving for a year or two.
>> Yeah. >> And trying to think through >> they know everybody at that point or at least they understand the processes. They know the city hall people. How could they continue to serve when their term limits are up and they kind of ride off into the sunset? Right. That's right. With all that inherent knowledge,
a community or a resident advocate, I think is the perfect role >> that >> we could offer. >> The picture uh is basically that we had the heavy equipment go through our our yard for no reason. Basically, it just they used it to cut the corner instead
of going around. They weren't doing construction. They were just driving through it. Something like that is is something that a resident advocate I know >> that's awesome. >> I live there. I actually saw it in person. So >> if you filled that, you could literally
put a little canoe in it. Our kids could like waterboard on it. >> It it and it it was Yeah, it was deep. >> And so now it's mostly rocks cuz the back fill was like dirt with concrete. But my point is like that's not something that should be at that level. It shouldn't be at the city manager
level and it shouldn't have escalated to that. the complaints and the things that we had to address, months and months of, hey, we need to get this addressed and it's just too hard. >> But if we get a project manager, that is exactly what a project manager should be doing. >> And if we have a recently retired uh
commissioner, mayor, whatever, a civil servant of some sort, serving as a citizen advocate, that person can also plug in. >> And I use the term belly button, but in a very good positive way. There intersections, there points that people
can go to and say, "Hey, I'm having this issue." And they can help get and connect with the right people to make sure that those issues are up channelneled to whoever needs to see it to get it promptly addressed. Right. >> Or to facilitate like one of the pictures is the the drain. It's at a
high point and that was back in January that you guys have the same p. Oh, did I not give you one? They should be the same pictures. >> So, I've mowed that just like Mike. I've been mowing our yard for 20 years. I could tell you where the high points are. And so when they put the drain at the high point in our yard, I said I'm
pretty sure I said to Mr. Baker, I'm pretty sure we did. We were like, that's an unusual design. And he said, well, maybe it's for venting. But then I saw the next drain was also at a high point. I'm like, so they're all at high points. Turns out they had to come back and do the work again and lower them. But we had expressed that to public works in
January. Something's not right. And I just I wish that there had been a little bit of a liaison to say, "Hey, they're all saying this. There's probably something to it." So, um, that would be it, just to give the residents a little bit of a voice, but I just think it's too much to stack on top of public works
and on top of Chris. So, >> one thing that all of y'all have done today is y'all have all been very, very helpful in putting Thank you, Miss Nelson. Putting a face with an experience. Come on up, ma'am. Uh, or we can grab your microphone. putting a face
in very specific issues with this whole kuruncle if I may use that word. Um we need to do better as a city and we will do better. I think the key interlinkage that we were missing though is that liaison is that project manager
and that's kind of bad on us as a team as an organization but when you identify a need you fill that need right so sincerely thank y'all for these inputs very much ma'am. Hi, thank you all for being here. I know on a Saturday and thank you for all the community to be
here as well. It's it's really important that we get together and we talk about this. We are Linhaven residents and I thank you for being able to watch everything online. Um I know that um even if there isn't a lot in the room,
there is a ton of people online that are supporting you if it doesn't fit with their schedule. So I really want you to know that that people eyes are on you and um you have a lot of support. So I um am in business. I have done a lot of um project management. I most
recently designed and self-contract and built our house just right down the road on the water. And um before that we lived on 15 acres. And I learned unfortunately through a lot of loss of money my husband sent back there of how
important grading is and quality is. And I I just want to say I'm here to support our neighbors everywhere and um close friends but the quality of work has to be addressed and these have to be addressed from the people that are
putting on the work. And as a business owner, I own early education centers and I do a lot of everything. And I will tell you that babysitting contractors is more of a full-time job than babysitting children. And the quality of
work that has um really went down in the last 10 years. And I I mean we can like talk about all this why um but we are dealing with less and less of equality quality workmanship in general in general in our area in our community in
our country and all of that. And so maybe this is baked a little bit into um you know their bidding system and how that works but that more hands on the ground need to be there in order to truly overlook the quality of what is
being done. Um grading in particular we will always be chasing water in Linhaven. Okay. No matter where one inch of grading can make a complete difference and I want I want the citizens to know how important that the
land work is. And um when I saw the picture of the tree, I think that's why I really came up here to talk because not only did we lose a lot of money in our 15 acres and had to hire one of the best graders in this area, which then you have to become almost a um expert
yourself in grading. Um, but we lost over 50% of our trees because of the grading. And in Linhaven, I think our trees are like gold right now, the ones that we have left. And so, um, I think that that's really, really important that the people that are putting on this
work understand that and and we need to be mindful that anytime there's work around established trees that we have left, these are very important to the homeowners. You know, it's important in our own homes. what we have left. Um that there is much finesse that is
happening in that kind of area. Um I would say the quality from the pictures from driving by it just needs to be addressed. I know um a homeowner doesn't need to tell a contractor that the drain is on the high point of the yard. You know, they should have already been on
site before that even happened. And so that does fall back to the ones that are coming up and um looking at the quality of work, the quality of bids, who is bidding, what kind of um work have they done. I promise you if you go over to 3A, they have a lot more finesse
and a lot more mindfulness of their homeowners than they do here. So, um, it is our job as citizens and as the government to to really to be the advocate and we may not know a lot about
contracting. I I do, but if you don't, we do know what good quality services and what good quality care is and what our expectations are as residents of Linhaven. We want it all to be beautiful. We want it to be um, a safe place, but um, I just want to advocate
on their half. They don't know what they're looking for and maybe you don't either, but the the ones who were doing the work and the quality of work absolutely do. And in the early education world 10 years ago, what took one teacher to oversee something now
takes two. And that has to come out of my pocket as a business owner because the quality is what is important. And so we can't be looking back about what you know, however the bidding system works. I understand some, but that they need to
be very very aware that the quality our residents what they're doing and um is very much done to the highest standard as possible because we deserve that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, ma'am. Miss Haley. >> Okay. I have another story to share from
a resident. This is Martha Ross's story. Martha lives at 1218 Georgia Avenue here in Linhaven. For her, this project has become much more than construction and convenience. It's become a health concern. Martha has an artificial right eye with an implant that cannot be replaced. A thin layer of skin covers
that implant and become because of the dust from this project. That skin has become severely irritated as red as a beat, she said. But what's only part of her story? Earlier this year, Martha underwent cancer surgery on her left eye. the only eye she can see out of.
She lost her bottom eyelashes and about onethird of her lower eyelid. The dust that continually comes into her home and fills the air when she tries to be outside has caused the eye to become red, irritated, and painful. Martha is deeply concerned that this ongoing
exposure could become a serious medical issue and potent potentially threaten her health or her only functioning eye. She wants people to understand that for some residents, this project hasn't just been an inconvenience. It has had real personal and physical impacts. She is
simply asking that her concern be heard and that something be done before the damage becomes even more serious, particularly with this. It's about paving paving the road. So, um her road still has not been paved, so she's worried about that and the dust that's
coming from it. Um, a couple concerns that I had is as Beverly mentioned, we did have the grades put on the high point and they were above the terrain. So, we had talked to the engineers and
we had talked to city u we talked to Bobby Baker um [clears throat] Danny and we spoke to many people. I've talked to John on the phone. Um, everybody is, "Yeah, I'll get an answer and call you back or dismissive." I haven't gotten
definitive answers. So, I did do a public records request for the change in the plans on my property. I cannot get any answers as to when this was approved, when the change was made, who approved the swell in my yard, which
restricts access now to my gate, I cannot use. And it's very evident that you can see my neighbors and where the swells are and how different theirs are than mine and the disturbance that this has caused. When I came to the city and asked several questions specifically
about this, I was told that legally they only have to allow me one point of access to my property. So I would like to know where the ordinance is for that. I have asked for it repeatedly for over a week and have yet to be. I have just told it exists. We don't know what the
name of it is. Um I also asked in the plans in the contract several times it's mentioned that restoration will be done within 30 days of the pipe being laid. When I brought this to um the city manager, I was told that that shouldn't have been in the contract. It was missed
and never should have been in there. So my concern is who's holding that accountable? Who's reading our contracts? And you know who's advocating like everybody else has said for us the citizens. It's um I was told that I
would like to know when this was made because they finished laying our pipe in January or February I believe. I think it was February according to the timeline. And when was this found? Was this found in February? Was this found in May? If it was found in May, why was
my yard not restored prior to it? Just because it has to be dug back up because of poor engineering. Why am I the one being punished for my yard looking the way it did for seven months? Those are my concerns and what I'd like answers from the city. I like the solutions that
we've come up with with some of the things, but I think finding the advocate and somebody to hold accountability. I feel like blame's been pushed around the room and I just want to know who's going to fix it, when's it going to be done, and you know, I was told that the grass
was laid so it was done. Well, again, as Beverly mentioned, it was not graded at all. So, I try to walk to pull my trash can up Friday and I was tripping all over the place because there's holes in the yard. There's rocks everywhere, big chunks of cement. Uh, and then there's
also they took the bulldozers up into our yards. So, against our fences, we can't open our gates now. So, when I spoke to Danny about that issue, cuz to great that up against the fence, you're going to need heavy equipment. So, I asked, "Why is the sod being laid before
restoration is completed?" And I was told, "Oh, they'll do it by hand." I've yet to see any work done by hand. And I'm not sure how you would do that extensive of work by hand. So it if they have to dig up my grass again, who's
responsible for that? Who's responsible for the grading? So I just I have a lot of questions that I'd like answered and ordinances that I'd like to see. Thank you. >> Miss Haley, don't step away. >> Yes, sir. >> Yep. So, one thing I will publicly
commit and I'm signing myself and the city manager up for is to give you answers to your particular property. >> Thank you. >> I'll give you that within the week. Um Chris and I will set up a meeting with you. We'll pull in whoever city-wise we need to. We will give you a straight and
clear answer. >> Thank you. That's all I've been asking for. >> The other thing since you have been an excuse I mean this in a complimentary way. You've been bird dogging this. >> Yes. Um, I would actually, even though we're down to the last three months of
this project, hopefully, uh, I would actually like to ask you to be one of our volunteer committee belly buttons, liaison, interfaces. >> Yes, sir. >> Uh, we need a project manager to spearhead this, but in the interim for the next three months, I really need a
couple of residents with skin in the game. >> Yes, sir. >> To do exactly what you've been doing for the last week or two. >> Thank you. Um, and I would like to ask you and if there's someone else from the 10th Street community that would like to do that, I'd love to have a second. But
Miss Haley, Miss Nelson, sorry, I couldn't I couldn't see you behind Haley. >> So, I I see your hand now, ma'am. Thank you. >> If Miss Haley and Miss Nelson will uh be those belly buttons, she's called me. We've talked multiple times on the
phone. um and the city manager as well. For the last for the duration of this project, we will work with y'all and I promise you on behalf of the commission, the city, we will make this as right as we can. Y'all communicate your issues and needs to.
Please use Miss Nelson and Miss Haley um as kind of make sure at least they're aware of your issues and concerns. Even if y'all are coming and talking to us directly so that we're all on the same page and before this project closes out, every one of y'all that have an issue, a concern, or need a restoration of some
sort, we can get that properly addressed. And if you need a straight out answer like you do, Miss Haley, that we give it to you. >> May I say something? >> Yes, ma'am. I just want to say that um he means what he's saying and we can all
hold his rear to the fire because he has said it out loud and it is on video and >> this is your time. This is your time to shine too. >> No, I don't need to shine. I just want to help. And we all do. We all would not be up here if we didn't love this city
and love our community and our neighbors. We're in a bad spot because we're reacting. Okay. >> Yes. And I'm sorry it took this long. We were intimidated to come to y'all. We went to the appropriate channels and got nowhere. So, >> I hope this never happens again. And I'm
I will speak for all four of my fellow commissioners. None of us want this to happen again. >> I pledge to you. We all pledge to you. We will work with y'all and we'll make this as right as possible. >> Thank you. >> Come on up, sir.
And then, sir, You want to come up or would you like a microphone? Ma'am, >> I can do my >> Oh, we're we're coming with a microphone. Zach, >> you're next, buddy. >> Well, they're gonna they need to hear you online. >> Okay. Sorry.
>> That's okay. >> Corner of 12th in Tennessee. Southwest corner. There's a piece of pavement missing out of the road there that's been that way ever since before they even started the sidewalks over there. Can you get that straightened out? Also,
Chris, I got a question for you. I'm going to put you on the spot now. What's that pad for on the southwest corner by the stop sign? It doesn't connect to anything. They went and poured cement there. What's the purpose of it? >> Yes, ma'am. That's part of the Tennessee Avenue sidewalk project. And that's just
the future landing for the crosswalk to be able to extend the the um sidewalks in the future. >> So, they're going to extend the sidewalk across uh 12th Street there. >> In the future. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Then what are they going to do with the drainage ditch that I've been the one that's maintained the drainage
ditch that Lynhaven hasn't because I'm the one that's digging it out and I'm the one that's mowing the rightway there. What are they going to do when the water doesn't drain? >> So, we haven't designed the project yet. So, we'll address it during the design. >> Well, I sure hope you do a very good job of it because right now the cement
that's there on 12th in Tennessee on the opposite side, the water collects. The water does not drain. All you've done is create a bigger problem there than we had before. Thank you. >> Ma'am, what was that? Hang hang on, Jamie. Got it. >> Ma'am, what was the address?
>> I got it >> for the uh for the hole in the >> 12th in Tennessee. >> 12th in Tennessee. >> Okay. And did you say the southwest corner, ma'am? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> One Thank you.
One thing that I would like to say, uh, does Chris Lightfoot have identity on the side of his truck when he's driving around? >> I drive my personal truck. Now, >> I I understand that. And I know the city pays $700 a month for it. So, this is
what I want to say. There is a liability if Chris is driving a truck around. Somebody needs to do homework on this. Commissioners, please. There's a liability him driving a truck around taking care of city property going on your property. So, how about let's
taking care of that? Just get him a sign made and put on his personal truck cuz we pay for him to drive that vehicle. Right. Your seniors are not going to let him come to their door. I can tell you that. Unless they call. And what do we
got? 3,600 of them in this city. So, he's got 3,600 doors that some people might not even open because of him. So, let's put liability on there. I take care of it. Put the sign. Okay. Let's make a little sign. I don't care if it's
right by his window, wherever. We need to see it when he comes to the door. Okay. Just protection. >> Like a like a auto magnet with a city seal or something. >> Yeah. He can take it off when he's if he wants to go to a restaurant with a friend or whatever. Yeah. Just as long
as he's in this city, he needs a sign. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Thank you, Miss Stay. >> Yes, ma'am. Zach, come on up. >> So, uh, this kind of the I guess the
other half of the hand that that we're going to go through. Um, so one of the things that I talked about in my interview was encouraging people to take ownership of problems in the city so that you had a
champion for people, right? And Mr. Basher brought up a great point. Project managers are usually that point of contact, but we can expand that across the entirety of the city because it's not just engineering projects. It's not just construction. It's not. We have
problems in every single department. So, who's that person that the people know to go to? If it is a director, how efficient is that director at answering problems? Is that even a part of their evaluation every year? Do we know how
good they're at it? Bobby, I I worked with Bobby during Michael for years. Um, how good is he at answering the problems of the people? this is a public works project. Ultimately, if we don't have a project manager, the buck ends with him.
Um, you know, moving forward, it's a metric that the city needs to look at is who's the champion for each thing that is going to affect the public and how well are they communicating the results
of that to the people and bringing questions forth and problems forth both to the commission and to the city manager. If you are going to have widescale things going on that are going to affect multiple people, you should have a project page. And I encouraged Alan Branch to do this and and and
Jonathan to do it down in Panama City. They're starting to do it. I've encouraged the beach to start doing it. And I would like to see the city of Linhaven do it. Hey, Tenth Street Project. Here you go. At the top, project manager, point of contact, whatever it is, that name goes nearly at the top of the page. So, anyone that
clicks on the 10th Street project knows, hey, I can call this person. Here's their email address. Be it a third party, be it someone that you've hired, be it the engineering firm, whoever it is. I would like to know information about these projects. Why can't we have a project page on the website that says,
"Here's a quick map of everything that's going to be going on. Here's a timeline for everything that's supposed to be happening. Here's the funding. Here's the amounts." It it it's not a hard thing to set up. I've built websites before. It would take someone maybe 2 hours to put together.
um having that kind of information out in the field, but also like you said, everyone doesn't want to use Facebook. Everyone, how do we get this information out? Well, city websites usually that that point of contact and and like Ryan said, the POI should be that type of
position, type of point of whatever that is putting that information out. Well, website should be a great way to do it. Um getting on to the the points of a project manager and and Mr. Shear highlighted that perfectly. Whether it's
internal or external, you need to have it. There isn't even Callaway uses them. And Callaway is about the size of us. Panama City, I believe, has seven of them now. The beach has four of them. I mean, look how many projects the Panama City is doing. I mean, they're basically
redoing all the roads in their entire city right now. Funding for that, especially with a grants project, you can put TNM, time and materials. You can put administrative costs into those. You can bake in the cost of a project manager into a grant. We bake them into
almost every one of the projects that I used to work on. There's no reason that you can't say, "Okay, well, we're going to hire either internal or external project manager for 3 years at 120,000 total cap and we need to add that in." State's going to look at it and go, "Okay, well, what are their
responsibilities going to be?" Well, their responsibilities are going to be X, Y, and Z. Okay. So, they're going to manage efficiency, effectiveness. They're going to hopefully reduce the likelihood of cost orders or change orders. They're going to likely, you know, look at engineering and go, "Okay, we're not going to put drains in high
points and things like that." They're going to catch errors beforehand so that we don't have an $800,000 change order. That's the effectiveness of having that champion for the city. And so I want to not just look at this project,
but going forward we're going to what $15 to $50 million on a storm water solution. We're going to be looking at other or not storm water, but wastewater. We're going to be looking at storm water problems because, you know, we wanted to do something on 17th Street that eventually needs to get done. We
need to clean out BD Bayou. We need to clean out Linhaven Bayou. We need to, you know, repave probably half the roads in Linhaven. There is going to be a substantial number of projects in the next 10 years. Let's stop looking at a budget as year-to-year. Let's start
looking at a budget as five years, 10 years down the road. Now, let's talk about what we just talked about. How many change orders has this city had just in this building that cost us? How much money? Who was
the champion overseeing that? Who was the point of contact overseeing that? How much money could this city have saved? We're talking about cutting budgets. How much do we waste? Can anybody, any of you five that have been sitting here or
Chris, tell me how much the city has wasted just this year for things that we didn't foresee coming because we didn't have a point person. You You want to talk about cost efficiency, cost effectiveness, a project engineer, and I know I talked to you about this. I've talked to Chris about this and I've
mentioned it to a couple of the commissioners. One project engineer or one engineer on staff plus two skillbridge engineers could probably save us hundreds of thousands of dollars in the long run just by finding the errors that we're paying out of pocket because this one
thankfully was 100% paid for. But how many projects do we do a year that we pay for out of pocket? How many of them need change orders and how much of that is covered by taxpayer money? Let's talk about lawyers that you guys
are going over right now. You know, minimum caps versus maximum caps. You know, are we looking at the effectiveness of are we going to have a flat bid amount or are we going to have built-in costs that are going to get us to 500 600,000 a year that it's not
going to be effective for accounting problems, for legal problems, for engineering problems, for construction problems. It's a metric that this city currently does not look at very well on the large scope, on the long term
to account for waste. and waste, I promise you, if you really started accounting for it, adds up to millions of dollars over a segment of years. So, I just want to put that out there that having champions isn't just about the cost of a
project manager. Yes, you might pay them 10000,000 a year. You might save 500,000 a year if you're going to be doing $50 million worth of projects. They pay for themselves. But without those metrics to look at that, you'll never know that answer. So, I would like to see that maybe not in this budget year, but as we
move forward as a city, start looking at the effectiveness and efficiency of the waste and h what we could do to solve that problem because that's a great segment to save money in a budget. Thank you. >> Thank you, Zach. >> Mr. Basher.
>> Yeah. Real quick, just to cover what a couple people have said. One was Ryan talked about communication. You can never overcommunicate factual data. You can never overcommunicate factual data. Now you can overcommunicate rumor but factual data you cannot overcommunicate
it. Um and as Mr. D deweiler says on large projects include the cost of your project management in the budget. Fund it improve it. It's in the budget. You can afford it. You know yeah it's going to cost money but you've got it in the budget. You know it's there and you can
spend it. So, that's one thing. The last thing is I was kind of surprised when Mrs. Day said something about the police department and fire department being in the charter. So, I looked it up and on section 21 officers and departments, it says officers and departments of the
city of Linhaven shall consist of a city attorney, police chief, fire chief, city manager, public works director, finance director, and those departments as established by ordinance. So, it is actually in the charter that we have a police chief and a fire chief.
>> Ma'am, would you like to come up or you want a mic? Okay. >> Good afternoon. >> Good afternoon. Uh Christy Maroy, I do not live in Lyn Haven, but my father used to uh all the way up till the time
he departed. Um and I I love Lyn Haven and so that's why I'm here today. First, I want to thank you all, especially Commissioner Tinder, uh because she was the one that said there were issues. She's been talking about that for
months. Um, I'm glad some of the couples and people are here. I've had a chance to talk with them back in, I would say, early spring. This has been a problem. I think you don't have an engineer, a
contractor, a staff problem. You have a customer service problem. And actually, you should have a project manager for the contractor that you hired and they're not doing their job and that
needs to be addressed. Um, you have a project manager here with the city which is Bobby Baker. And I know it's a lot. you feel like things
are coming down on you. But I believe in smaller government. That's the Republican way. You utilize your the dollars you have that come from all of these people. There is no such thing as
a grant tree in somebody's backyard. It's all taxpayer dollars. And so whether you're talking about a federal grant, state grant, whatever, we all pay into it. So return on investment
is where I go. And right now you're not getting a good return on your investment. So you've got an engineer of record which is Deubberry and if a neighbor if someone is saying,
"Hey, this is too high." and having these conversations. It's up to them. It's up to the project managers. You already have and you already pay. Bringing someone else into the city and paying them $50 to
$100,000. That's not necessarily a need. The need is to get the project managers that are accountable, which is your public works, your engineer of record, and that
project manager and your contractor and that project manager. Now, I've already brought up who I believe I understand that project manager is for the contractor. I don't know that that guy should be your
project manager. I don't think he knows what he's doing. So, I think it's time for you all to make sure that your city manager and your project managers are all on the
same page and answering the customer service problems that all of these people are talking about. That's the sensible way of doing things. I do want to say I haven't seen Mike. He's just as
funny as he used to be in high school and I hadn't seen him in about 50s something years. So, that's kind of worth the the drive itself. So, thank you. I appreciate y'all. >> Thank you, ma'am. Mr. Scra, >> um, two quick follow-up points. Johnny,
thank you for pointing that out about the charter. I was looking when they asked that too and being on the charter review committee. Um, it's something that I want to look into. I I'd already had planned on the topic of discussion eventually a citizens bill of rights basically or a
citizens right would cover the citizens are guaranteed by our government because it's our government. Um, and so that's a topic that's forthcoming in the future. Um, you're right. It does say it's a department head, which and it says shall. So, the position would need to
exist even if you contracted it out. You'd still have to have a city police chief, fire chief, unless you change the charter. The charter also contemplates that the department exists because in section um 18, it talks about the mayor
taking over the city police department and the city fire department during times of emergency. So, I would argue that the existence of a city police department and fire department are required by the charter by law unless you ask for the charter to be changed.
Um, and then also in regard to project managers, every contract that I have at work has a project manager for our company. So, think of my company that I work for as the city, right? the city should have a project manager and then
the contractor doing the work, they usually have a project manager on their side and those two are usually the ones engaging on things, right? So whether you hire a city staff member or build it into the budgets like Zach was saying to
have somebody and it's it's a contracted position, right? Maybe we find a firm that can have an ondemand project manager. Hey, we got a grant. It's going to cover you for 15 hours. um a week. Can you come do that 15 hours a week for
the city on this project? Oh, we got another project. So, now for your from 15 hours a week for the city, now you're to 30 hours a week. You know, so it doesn't necessarily have to be a W2 city employee. It could still be a contracted position. Kind of like we use the labor attorney, right, where they're on
demand. Um, I'm sure there's firms out there that would love to have that opportunity with us that aren't currently involved in the in the city because I wouldn't want you to use anybody we already use. Too much conflict of interest or you'll see this acronym Judy COI, conflict of interest.
Um, so yeah, just kind of those two points to keep in mind that if you if we do go down that project manager route, you can't rely on the contractor that you ordered the contractor to to manage the contract in a way that's favorable to the city >> because their job is to get that job
done as efficiently as possible and maximize the profit for the company they work for. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Ma'am, >> I know that we're overtime already and everybody's tired, but had somebody
suggest this today and the more I sit here and think about it, the more sense it makes. And this has nothing to do with this other than saving the city money. And that is instead of having our attorney, new or old, I don't care who
we're talking about, come and sit at our commission meetings every night for $300 an hour, we should just simply have a court reporter at 135 sitting here just taking notes and then when we need the
city attorney, we pay the 300 an hour instead. I mean, really just have that's how they used to do it years ago. court reporter just sat here and did everything and much less than $300 an hour. I something to look at.
>> Yes, ma'am. >> And I just appreciate everybody who came out. I that's my big thing. I really do appreciate it and I think positive things are going to happen. So, as we do wrap up, I can see the fun meter on everyone is about Peg. This has
been a long but productive two and a half hours. Um, Miss Haley, I want to thank you for bird dogging this and kind of putting this together with Commissioner Tinder. Thank you sincerely. Uh, if there's anybody else that wants to speak that has not,
please, the floor is yours. I do not want anybody to walk away feeling like they didn't get a chance to be heard. If you do, please come up. We will wait and listen. >> Feel like >> if not, we'll wrap up and um, we'll just do a couple of closing thoughts here. Miss Haley, I'd actually like for you,
if you don't mind them, to uh have a couple of closing thoughts from the the audience side as one of our two new volunteer. >> I know. Welcome to the team, right? That's what you get for volunteering. Yeah, you're my new volunteer. So, um I
am serious about using you and Miss Nelson as the belly buttons on 10th Street. >> Yes, sir. >> To help relay information to us for the last three or four months of this project. >> Yes, sir. when there are issues, you know, I will come to y'all. I'll ask y'all to come to us, you know, the city
manager, Bobby, uh, public works folks. Um, the only way we can get through this is together, right? We are literally all in the proverbial rowboat together here. >> Yes, sir. >> So, in your closing thoughts, what can we do to help you at this point? And
>> then we'll uh we'll wrap up on our side. I've appreciated all the suggestions about the communication. I would love to see that executed and how we can do that in better ways. So, I love that we've got that talking. I really appreciate
that. Um I, as you said, we're getting to the end of this project. I hope we can round it out the way we need to. I appreciate y'all being on board and hearing us voice our opinions, really taking our opinions seriously, and you know, taking the time to do this workshop even. So, we really appreciate
that. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you for that. >> Thank you. >> Commissioners, does anybody want to say anything as we wrap up? >> Y'all good? Sam, >> I'll just say uh thanks for providing all the data like with the pictures and
and the notes and all that. That's really helpful. It's one thing for you to bring something to our attention, which is always great, but to have actual like data and and pictures and stuff that we can see firsthand, it does help a lot. So, I really do appreciate that. So, thanks for everyone that came
in and brought stuff to our attention. Um, it I think this was a very productive meeting. So, thank you very much. >> Thank y'all. And Miss Nelson, by the way, thank you, too, for volunteering to run point here. Thank you.
>> Jamie, you got anything? >> I'm good. Just thank you for everyone coming and sharing your uh feedback. Appreciate it. >> All right. City manager, any closing thoughts? >> No. Well, otherwise, thank y'all sincerely. Miss Day, I'm going to come back and see you in just a minute, so don't run off, ma'am. Uh, I want to meet
you. Thank y'all everyone for coming. I hope you have a good rest of your weekend. And if I don't see you before, I hope you all have a great Fourth of July with your families. Okay, thanks everybody.