First, we'll have an invocation in the pledge by Pastor Tim Krisco of Catalyst Church. Thank you, sir. Invite you to pray with me. Father God, we have much gratitude for those that have served our great nation.
We pray that yesterday they felt valued and honored for the great sacrifices they have made to give us security and our freedoms that we have in this country. Let us pause and thank you for freedom,
love, grace, and mercy that you provide. I pray for the leaders of this community that you will give them discernment and wisdom in leading and making decisions for Linhaven and its citizens. May you,
God, bless us and give us peace and unity. It's in your holy name we pray in the name of Jesus. Amen. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic
for it stands nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all. All right, before we move on to public commentary, we have resolution number 2025 11493.
A resolution of the city of Lin Haven, Florida, excusing the absence of the mayor of Mayor Nelson from the November 12th, 2025 regular commission meeting. Did >> you read that or I didn't read it? >> I did. Was you're good.
>> All right. [Music] reads, "Be it resolved by the city commission of the city of Linhaven." >> You don't have to read that part. >> Okay. I did that. Cool. All right. Cool. Do we have a motion for this?
>> I'll move that we excuse the mayor. All right. We have a motion from Commissioner Perno. Is there a second? All right. Uh motion dies on the floor. All right. Moving on to public
commentary. Um I will I'm going to go with the list and go from top to bottom. First we have Corey Langford. Good evening. Uh just uh before I get into talking about storm water, um I' I'd like to take a moment to thank um a uh a worker of the city of Linhaven by
the name of Mr. Jackson Wales. My mother uh mother-in-law moved into the to Linhaven from Panama City Beach. And um we moved her in on Saturday. Her water was supposed to have been turned on on Friday. Lo and behold, the water meter was locked. and uh made a couple phone
calls and thanks to Mr. Lightfoot and his team, uh Mr. Wells actually came out in a a very quick time and we were able to get a water meter turned on. So, huge thank you to Mr. Jackson Wales and his team. Um I I messaged you all um last
week and I'm kind of glad that I received my tax notices last week because it gave me a little bit of time to cool down uh when I saw my storm water assessment. Um, in 2021, I think some of you all may remember that the storm water assessment was passed. And in 2022, I began coming up here and and
explaining my frustrations with the fact that I own a vacant property directly across the house. My house, it's the exact same size lot. It's 250 250 foot wide lots. My house sits on 250 foot wide lots.
Ever since then, I've complained and complained that it's nothing but dirt over there. But yet I'm paying more in a storm water assessment fee for that dirt than I am for my house, pool deck, driveway, shed,
accessory structures, etc. I have been extremely extremely frustrated about this. I was hesitant to to support the approval of the storm water assessment. I felt like we had a need at the time, a storm water issue in Linhaven. I felt like the assessment was going to
jumpstart the infrastructure upgrades that we needed here in this city to deal with storm water. Okay. Every year since that's been passed, I've heard the exact same thing. We've barely got enough money to keep the lights on. In fact, the last time this this last
discussion, we were I believe it was $481,000 in the hole and we were only six months in to the year. All right. So to say that I'm frustrated is is a little bit of an understatement. Um so I got my tax
bill last week and frustrations were renewed for the dirt across the street. My annual storm water assessment is $21.36 for my home with the driveway. the all the impervious surfaces that I have pay
$17210. Make it make sense. Just please make it make sense. All right. The last thing I'm going to close with is is this. There's not a person sitting up here right now that can tell me when this assessment is going to end. As of right now, my great great
grandchildren are going to be paying a storm water assessment in the city of Lin Haven. Thank you. Thank you. Moving on to Jeff Snyder. >> Good evening. Uh Jeff Snder, 309 Virginia Avenue. Um I know a lot of times this is not a slight on anyone
that you guys only hear bad when we come before you. I want to highlight something good that's happened. Uh my family and I are uh committed members of our sports program. Uh my sons have played flag football and baseball for a
number of years. Uh and I want to just tell you guys that under Justin Ward's leadership, the program is premier. It is excellent. Um we had a less than positive event um few different times
over this past baseball season, some personality conflicts. Uh and it really kind of came to a head uh last Thursday night. Um, I was able to speak with Justin and his staff and it was addressed. We felt heard. Um, and I I
just want to I want to commend the city for finding him and retaining him because you're building a you're you're through his leadership, you're building a a really really fantastic sports program. um the um it is it has gotten steadily
better under his leadership. So that's it. I just wanted to uh wanted to make you guys aware of that. Thank you. Enjoy evenings. >> Thank you. >> Next we have Ryan. >> Good evening. Um, I'd really like to
understand I would love for you guys to explain to me after asking for an agenda item to discuss tasking the city with finding out the cost of zoning why that agenda item is still not up on the
agenda. I get it. We went through a uh ballot. We had non-binding referendum questions. The zoning one failed because it was written to fail. We have again tonight another quick
service food industry development order along 77 in a city that is far over capacity on that um highway for quick service restaurants and that's not opinion like you can do actual analytics on that um
for our census data. Uh, I'm just wondering why we're still not having the discussion about looking into the actual cost of zoning. How hard does it how hard is it going to be to get some kind of direction for the city to actually look at that? I don't think the
city's actually looked at that. When it got discussed for the uh non-binding resolutions, it was a lot of, well, we don't know. It's just going to be expensive. How expensive? Let's just find out. I'm not asking for you to approve zoning. I just want to find out how much it's
going to be cost to implement it so we can as a city decide if that's something we want. Do we want 48 more fast food restaurants in one part of the city or not? That's all I'm asking for is just the discussion and the data. Um, other
than that, I also sent an email about first responders in Linhaven. Um, I know the rates labor rate study is going to happen. In that email, I talked to you guys about, you know, looking at maybe putting a pay schedule together for the employees of the city that uh models
after the GS employee pay schedule, different levels, different steps within the level. You can build your COLA into your steps, steps one through 10. Somebody could go 10 whole years without ever needing a COLA adjustment just by increasing their
steps with each year of service. Then you can reserve COLA adjustments for when they're truly needed. Um, so when you do that rate study, I would like to see whoever does that rate study come back with something like that. Um, because I don't know if you
guys looked into the data after I sent that email, but the police department is not staffed fully and I don't know how many exact officers we're are away from not being able to fulfill a whole shift, but it's pretty close and that's
concerning. um the response times alone between the city and the county is is a large gap. Uh so I I highly ask that you guys look into that and make some kind of move to assure those first responders they'll get action right away.
>> Thank you. That was exactly three minutes. Um, next we have last name is Cobb on Alabama Avenue. Thank you. >> Good evening. I'm Tabby Cobb. Um,
Alabama Avenue. Um, I have not a criticism, but a few suggestions. Um, I'd like to thank Commissioner Tinder for some quick action. When I talked to her on Saturday about a problem caused by the water
repair job on Alabama, the contractors quickly took care of it and informed Mr. Lightfoot about it. I received emails. We corresponded quickly and I ended up talking to Mr. Lightoot. While
what I heard was not exactly what I was looking for. Uh I do understand it's not a city problem. It was caused by the contractor. Um I still appreciate the quick response and suggestions that
I get. The one suggestion is possibly the city have a little bit more oversight of some of the contractors to know exactly what they're doing so that the residents aren't jarred literally
out of their chairs when the contractors are dumping dumping asphalt and concrete they've dug up on other streets and dumping the vacant lot behind you. So you know what's happening when your pictures are turning on the wall.
And also know that when they go to remove that debris that yeah, they are disturbing the ground and sending ants and other critters into other people's lots, mating sheds and things like that. You know that maybe they
could have been a bit proactive and put a barrier down or something. Contractor, not so much the city because if you've fired the contractor, that is their responsibility to do. Again, I do appreciate the quick response from Commissioner Tinder and from my email
response to Chris immediately got a phone call and I appreciated that. So, again, I know y'all don't have an easy job. Um, watched my dad do this for like 20some years and you know, there's a lot going on behind the scenes that they
don't see. So seriously do appreciate everybody's time and I know it's a hard job and y'all are appreciated. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next we have Jerry Parker. >> Good evening commission. Jerry Parker
Rip Place. Um, I want to discuss um a city policy um in reference to the charter as well um about hiring the police chief. Um y'all really do need to get all the resumeumés for the candidates. Um there
was also a committee that was made that was not approved by the commission of other police departments going to look at resumeumés. What has anybody ever heard of that before? Another police department looking at our
resumes to determine a chief of police. I think that needs to be exade. Um also the the policy does state the appointment of the department of heads including the chief of police shall be made by the city manager with the advice
and consent of the city commission. That is the charter article 3 section 21. Officer, the chief of police has no charter authority, but rather acts under the direction of the city manager and serves at the city manager's pleasure. Succinctly stated, the police chief has
no authority to issue policies that supersede those approved by the city commission or to contravene city manager established procedures that apply to all city employees. With that being said, it doesn't say that that commission or
that that um committee gets to choose the top 10 um which includes I am sure is Ford, Telzes and other police departments. So you can give the you know you the
commission should get the resumes period. They should get the resumes of all these police department police um resumes and so you can give the advice and consent to the Linhaven text peers. A lot of information over several years has been given and two people are
finally gone. Seven years. It took seven years of corruption to get Vicky Gainor and the chief of police out of office. Surprisingly, your city manager is not doing what the charter states.
The charter states very succinctly what needs to be done and that needs to be addressed. Also, one other thing that I would like to address, why is forehand still employed by the city of Linhaven?
Did you not realize he was the one that brought Michael White to Linhaven after they were both fired from the co-op? Guys, this is not good. It's not good that he's still employed by the city of Linhaven. Thank you. Next, we have Bernie
Thompson. Hello, I'm Bernie Thompson. Uh, I want to address the culture o of the city of Linhaven. Obviously, there are big changes going on. The city
manager was fired by you guys. The um police chief uh retired early and now you've got a mayor who hasn't been here for the past three meetings who is most likely going to be recalled.
But just getting rid of the people who were at the heart of the problem doesn't solve the culture. And I I want to address a couple. I want to make a public record request actually for uh digital copies of any and all
invoices issued to members of the commission who wanted to inspect public records. The time frame is from Hurricane Michael to now. How many of you have received invoices to res inspect
public records? And I have another separate public record request for any and all digital copies of city security footage of the former IT employee
who recently brought in carloads of technology equipment was kept at his home after he left the city. I want I want to look at those videos, please. I want to see how much equipment
it was. I have an idea already. Why are Why is there no public discussion about this? Why do you all act like this doesn't happen and hope a guy like me doesn't show up and tell everybody? It's the culture.
The last one I I want to bring up. Over the past couple of meetings, you've had Commissioner Tinder turn over evidence from Officer Malendon, whose name has not been mentioned.
This is evidence found at a foreclosed home that was sensitive and confidential. I'm talking about CPT exams. Do you all know what those are? Child protective team exams taken at the GF Coast Children's
Advocacy Center. Those are confidential. Uh but they were just copies, Bernie. Also, there were files and files of records of those contractor licenses
received at Calhoun County. Look, even though he is the custodian of record, he's it's within his job scope to have them, is not in his job scope to abandon confidential records. And I'd
love a discussion about this. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we have James Finch. James Finch, East Second Street. Um, I'm the recall chairman and I got some good news for you. We've been able to achieve our goal. As of today, we
passed the uh amount of petitions that we need. We will be taking petitions through this Saturday and you know to have extras in case we have a problem which we don't anticipate. We have several hundred more than what is required and we will be turning them
into the city Monday morning. We're going to take through Saturday. But the recalls uh should be a reality. And I was glad to see I believe tonight I understood y'all did not excuse the mayor from being here tonight. Is that true? That's why I thank you for that. I
mean, he took this job and it pays money and he should earn it. But in the meantime, if he'd like to sign a petition, I'll come bring him one. Thank you all. >> Thank you, sir. Is there any further public commentary?
All right, we'll start on this side down and then this side down. Mr. Walker >> Walker, 1106 Michigan Avenue. Looking at the consent agenda for number 11 and number 12. I'd like to ask permission to have you move that to discussion into
the regular agenda because I have comments on it and I don't see this ever being brought before the people. Uh, so they don't know anything about it, what's going on here. Uh, I'd like to ask 11 and 12 be brought before the
commission tonight as part of agenda items if that's okay with you. >> We'll talk about that on agenda item number four. We can do additions and deletions on our agenda after public commentary. We'll discuss that. >> Okay? because if you don't I I I only
have three minutes to discuss both of them. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I I just just need to bring it to full. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Any further public commentary? All right. There's the final public commentary for now.
Moving on to agenda item number four, additions, deletions, modifications of the agenda. This was what I was talking about with Mr. Walker. We were going to have the ability to This is relatively new to our agenda, but on on our number four now, we have an an ability to add,
modify, delete items from the agenda. And so that's what that's kind of what I was getting at. Sorry, I forget that I need to talk real close to the mic like this. All right. Is there any additions, deletions, modifications of the agenda to what Mr. Walker said I did uh confirm
with the attorney that uh we should for the consent agenda. We're still going to have the ability for com public commentary during that time. So, um just wanted to say that out loud for everybody in case they were wondering. Is there anything that we want to add,
delete, modify? Um, I would I guess I would just like to take this time to about the feasibility study of um zoning. I think if I remember properly, we asked this in the past and it was going to
cost something like anywhere from 7 to $15,000 to even do like a feasibility study of that. I don't know how accurate those numbers are. So really, I just wanted to ask if we could get those numbers. so that we can make that decision to begin with.
>> Yes sir. We um I was going to bring up in my report as well that we do plan on having the workshop. I've confirmed the date with you all for the capital improvement and uldc discussion on December 12th. That is one of the topics as part of the uldc and then potential zoning. So if you'd like to wait until
that meeting to discuss that to give some staff uh direction on cost estimates or consultants or what would you you would like to do as part of that? >> Yeah, that's fine with me. it would kind of go in line with the whole thing. So, and you'd have more data at that time.
>> Well, not necessarily more data, but a a good talking point to understand exactly what we are going for. Are we wanting to hire someone to come in and look at zoning maps or I mean that is the point of that workshop to to kind of give us some direction um and plan on what we
need to do for uldc and zoning uh conversation. >> Okay. Yeah, that works. Thank you. I did I did have a conversation at the coffee with commissioners about with our new planning director and uh about
where we need to go with zoning and in the state we're in and uh uh she was she was very enlightening and um but but I don't I don't think we have it's not in stone that we're going to put zoning in place. Uh we we need to we
need to get this conversation rolling. Uh cuz you you know the cost of of just looking at it is one thing. The cost of having it and maintaining it is is is a serious thing. You're you're bringing
another department back is what you're doing. So just just to let you know. I mean so that's just uh it's a lot to think about. So do our homework and be ready for the
12th of December. Is there anybody we can bring in that? I know we had that fellow. We had a professor from FSU come talk to us one time. Do you recall that? >> Mr. Greer or you talking about Mr. Greer, our consultant, or the the gentleman from FSU?
>> Yeah, the gentleman from FSU. >> We can try to work that out um to have him here on the 12th. Again, the the workshop is just so we can get some direction um for the new year to know exactly what >> he might have ballpark figures on zoning and stuff like that as well.
>> Figure out if he has any any numbers. >> All right. Is there any more additions, deletions, modifications to the agenda? >> Uh yes, Mayor Proemp. I I have a question um regarding number 11 of Kiki.
Um as far as can we put that on an item by itself? >> So that that item we we can move it. Um it has nothing to do with finance. It is a settlement that our insurance paid. It is >> Oh no no no. I am so sorry. talking
about the 371,000 number 12. >> Yes, ma'am. We can >> move it to a regular agenda. >> Yeah, we can if everyone's fine with that, we can move that to number last.
So, that would be number uh number 20. Yeah, number 20. Well, I guess technically, yeah, we'll just save that for last because we're moving it from one spot. I don't want to do math in my head. All
right. Um, is there any more additions or deletions? All right, let me make a note of this real quick. All right, moving on to commissioners reports. Uh, I went 1 2 3 4 last time, so why don't we go
4321 this time? M commissioner tender. >> No report. >> I I don't really have anything. Um, I know yesterday was uh Veterans Day. Um just want to say thank you to all our veterans, especially the ones in our
community. Um our community has a lot of veterans and uh they're a valuable asset to our community. So um just say thank you. That's it. >> Commissioner Perno, >> I'll echo the sentiments of Commissioner
War. I had a yesterday I went to the the Legion and met with some folks. Um and uh it's an honor to meet the people that have served our country and tell them thank you. Um did a lot of that in my in
my business yesterday too. And it's just one day that it's a very emotional day and uh and it's one of those days that you're filled with a lot of gratitude at the end of the day when you're doing good stuff for good people. So um and then uh uh I don't have much to report.
I did I I I would have to uh tell you that I did attend as a citizen I attended the uh the the first charter review committee meeting. Um and uh and I I also attended the uh planning board meeting as a citizen. just, you know, uh
my uh my I'm I'm coming up on the the last year of my term and I wanted to get out and tell the planning commission thank you for what they do and thank anybody who's ever served on the planning commission. So, I did I I just
wanted to do that and uh with that that's that's all I have to report. Um other than commissioner um um Peebles, thank you for your first attendance of a TPO meeting in virtual. >> Yes. >> And we have we have new routes in
Linhaven. The uh actual bus route is not taking place anymore. um the people who want a ride can call and uh a smaller bus will come and pick them up and take them to the hub. Is
that correct? >> Yes. >> I think that's uh so one of one of the routes that ran up here down Pennsylvania, you know, the big buses um it's it's pretty much a on call kind of thing now. So that's a good thing. So
>> Mayor Prom, I forgot one thing if I may. Sure. Go ahead. >> Um the comment about the uh police chief and appointment process and that um if you look there's an agenda item about advice and consent. Um I think it'll address your issue and that. So um I
plan on talking about that quite extensively. Thank you. >> Awesome. Thank you, Commissioner Perno. Um for me, yes, like Commissioner Perno said, I was able to attend my first DPO meeting. Uh, I attended virtually this time. I'll be there in person next time.
But, uh, it's like drinking from a water hose. It's a lot of information all at once. But I legitimately when I got finished with it, I told my wife I was like, I thought I was going to be bored out of my mind for an hour and a half of powerpoints. But I it was really interesting. So, if um I mean they have
their agendas online just like we do. So if anyone just interested in seeing what their agendas are, you can just go on as a normal citizen. Go on just literally just Google Bay County TPO agenda. It's right there. Click it. You can read it. It's once every quarter. Um it's really
good information. Um and you can kind of see the future of where we're headed as far as traffic within Bay County. And um it's really cool. I've also spent a lot of time over the past two weeks looking over the uh city manager applications.
Um, thank you for HR for putting that together. Um, it's always fun. I'd say I mean it's fun to look up people and and look at their their history and and their resumes and stuff and um I've continued to look at that and we'll talk about that more on the agenda I'm sure
later down. But just wanted to say I've been looking at those a lot and um just thanks for everyone for all the emails you sent in the past two weeks and coming to the meetings and making your voice heard. Uh with that uh we'll move on to the uh interim city manager report.
>> Thank you. Um as we discussed earlier, we will have the December 12th workshop to discuss capital improvement projects, the ULDC and the zoning. The city received our lap certification. It's good until October 31st, 2028. That opens the door for some DOT funding for
some lap projects. So luckily um Mr. Jenkee and Mr. Baker got that completed for us and moved us on to being lap certified. Just a reminder, our winter wonderland is this Saturday, November 15th, here at Sheffield Park. A lot of vendors will be set up. So, bring your family, come out and enjoy that with
some shopping. Um, sit in, as you see in your packets, we did update the car form to kind of be a little more up-to-date and a little more informative. So, as you make your way through your packets or if you have any suggestions, um, don't hesitate to let us know. We continue to modify that
and hopefully make that a little more informative for everyone in the packet. As of Friday at our staff meeting, we had four payment arrangements of the federal workers that were affected um that we discussed last meeting for the utility uh bills. We had four uh people
taking advantage of that here in Lhaven. Youth volleyball registration is filling up fast. So, if you want to get your uh child registered, um need to get that going ASAP. Uh be aware of the scam emails going around. They are coming uh they look like they're coming from our planning department for an invoice. I
believe around 4,800 bucks is what it's saying that you owe for for some type of fees. If you get that, please report it to us. It's a pretty common scam going around for governments right now. Um so if you receive one of those personally, please reach out to the city and let us know and we can add that to our report.
Um police chief applications, we have that narrowed down to 11 uh applicants. We will be conducting uh online interviews next week and then we will be narrowing that down to three to five applicants and that will be done before a panel of yes other police chiefs throughout Bay County along with city
staff. That is very common practice for this type of position. Um multiple municipalities have done that. Uh we've got one chief that's filling in on on that panel. He's actually working in another municipality right now uh doing the same thing um outside of Bay County.
So that is pretty common practice for that and we will be conducting those interviews hopefully have a selection to bring before the uh commission uh for the advice and consent for the first meeting in January um is our goal and that is all I have finance report.
Have any questions about the finance report? >> Yes, Mr. I just wanted to know on the 371,000. Do we actually have those funds? >> Yes, ma'am. That was You're talking about the back truck now.
>> The back truck that's going to be item number 20. Yes, ma'am. That is included in the budget. >> It's in the sewer department and we have >> get you the exact numbers. We budgeted $320,000 that you approved when you approved the
budget. >> Okay. And where the where's the extra 50 coming from? Do we know yet? >> Yes, ma'am. It's on it's part of the packet there. We budgeted more money in the sewer department for a generator. We are foregoing the generator and adding
that $51,000 to the backtrack purchase. >> So, when if this passes, we'll be able to just write them a check. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. All right. I would like to piggyback on what uh Mr. Lightoot said about the volleyball. We signed up my daughter, I
think on a Saturday or something and just happened to check the next day and the slots dropped from like 47 in her age group to 33 in like a day. So, they really are filling up fast. So, if you want your children to play volleyball, you need to sign up, which is more
testament to what Mr. Ward's doing and his his team. Um yeah, and Winter Wonderland, great event. I go every year, so I hope to see you there. And um we will move on to the city attorney's report.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Do we have any beach volleyball courts in L Haven? >> Yes, sir. We did construct a beach volleyball court at the sports complex. It's right next to the U pickle ball court >> and it does get used quite frequently.
That's good. That reminds me there I' I meant to mention this a few months ago. There's been some like periodically people will say we need a park that's fenced. There is a there is playground equipment right behind the gym right where that volleyball court is that is
fenced off. So if that's a need of yours that you want to you want a playground equipment for your children to go on that's fenced off. There's one right there. Um you can't see it from the road. So that's probably why people don't know that it's there, but it is. So, um, spread the word if anyone's asking about that.
All right, moving on to the consent agenda. Approval of the minutes dated 10:28 regular meeting minutes. Approval of appointing Venus Weaver to the infrastructure sir tax oversight committee.
The uh for information only the settlement agreements accepted and approved by all parties in relation to the matters of peace v. City of Len Haven case 2023 CA000000471 only v city of L Haven case 2024
CA0000344. We move number 12 down. Code number 13, approval to declare fordinet router 101F as excess equipment and auction off on govdees.com. And mayor prom point out on page 21 it
said the settlement was for $75,000 when it it's written out there it says $75 and then in the parenthesis $75,000. But just noted that for the >> Yes, thank you for bringing it up. I did notice that, but I just made the assumption that that was a typo.
All right. Do we have a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Oh man, that was right. >> Second. >> That was right at the same time. All right. We'll go with >> both. >> All right. Commissioner Tinder has seated his second to Commissioner Tinder. So, we got a motion to approve
by Commissioner War, seconded by Commissioner Tinder. Is there any public commentary for these items? Mr. Walker? Uh the city manager explained exactly on that issue that I was going to bring up. That incident occurred three years ago.
There's no transparency on that incident. I once looked into the court cases against Linhaven discovered 17. That was a long time ago. now I've been told is 25. This one we're talking about right
now is 2022 and it is has the incorrect number as you pointed out written. If you write a check
$10 and you don't get the numbers to match with the letters, the check is invalid. that agreement should be shoved because it's incorrect. It says in the
consideration of the sum $75 in figures it says 75,000. Second part of this court case is correct. So your total numbers quite heavy.
My question to you is you're correcting that now. Did the lady get 75,000? If you're reading this as a legal document, uh-uh, doesn't work. It's
signed by a notary. Notary is saying only for the signatures. that this is an official document from the city of Linhaven and it's incorrect. Is this one of the 25 court cases we've
got? The first leading court case you've got is for $1.5 million. This one's almost $200,000. And it's a mistake. Is the person that
instigated this mistake, not the writing, but the accident, still working for us. Is the insurance company that's paying this for us? Probably not.
What I'm saying here is this is a mistake and it's a bad one. Somebody did it. Somebody should be accountable and the people should be aware of this incident
and everything about it. Just like Miss Tinder is finding out information, she's not being told about it. We're not being told about it. Your transparency credit is very weak.
Thank you. So my question on that is to the city attorney, do we need to make anything done to fix the typo or is it good to go? >> Commission doesn't need to. Sorry, it's it's done. It's totally paid for by insurance. The city funds, this is just for
information only. >> Okay. So as far as legal documents saying $75 and >> what he's saying something that they they should have caught and they may >> tried to fix it, something this commission needs to do. Okay.
Sorry. Is there any further public commentary? All right. No further public commentary. Is there any discussion from the commission? All right. We've got a motion on the floor for approval from Commissioner War, seconded by Commissioner Tinder.
Mr. Lifa, if you'd call the role. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. Mayor Pro Tim Pebbles. >> Yes. Motion approved. Moving on to There is no old business and there's no tabled items. So, we're
moving on to new business. Quasi judicial public hearing opens at 6:21. Discussion and possible approval of development order application 2517 Brew Coffee, parcel number 1022800
01420 Ohio Avenue. >> This is a closet initial. So if any of the stakeholders are going to testify, if you raise your right hand sworn in sort of tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Then also for the commission if there's any been any exarty communications with the developer of interest parties you can >> I've had none >> disclose those. >> Uh I know I attended the planning board meeting and I just spoke with the gentleman briefly after the meeting. It
was just it was just it was more about you know long as you base your decision on what you hear today. >> Yeah. >> I've had none. I've had none. Thank you. Um before you is a development order for Seven Brew Coffee.
This project would be located at 1420 Ohio Avenue with main ingress and egress along West 15th Street and there is an exiton pass through lane uh going out onto Ohio Avenue or Route 77. Um, this
project is also in the CRA district and is within the mixeduse future land use map category. This is a 0.516 acre vacant piece of property that would be used for the seven brew if approved. Uh,
since this does a butt on to route 77 that is a state road, FDOT did look at this application and the traffic data associated with it. Uh there are no additional improvements required along Route 77 and FDOT has determined
everything to be in order and they are ready to issue a a permit approving any development order. The site plan itself has been reviewed and found to be in complian with the city of Linhaven's Unified Land Development Code, the CRA district and
all Florida state requirements. Um, this was reviewed by the planning commission at their meeting um, this this past week on November 4th. And as Commissioner Pero said, um, that you were in attendance and and we had a
gentleman here that represented the project that spoke uh, slightly about the project itself. U, Mr. Trudea and he is also here tonight. So if you have questions for him or he'd like to present anything, uh, he is available to do so. And then if you have any
questions for staff, >> I guess my main question is I mean I'm looking at the map here and Seven Brew I've been to Seven Brew and um Callaway area and they do really well over there. So, it brings in a lot of traffic. And
so, my question is, is is there any going to be any turn lanes or anything to help move that traffic in or is it just going to be a straight up turn in from Ohio Avenue, pull out onto Ohio Avenue? >> Yeah, you can do. Thank you, Harold. Um,
you can turn in from 15th Street. Uh, that is one thing we did ask FDOT about uh was right turn lanes. And as they put it, uh, this cl this roadway which is route 77 is considered to be a context class 4 roadway. And what that
classification does is it lends itself to commercial areas such as Route 77 and that there are going to be expected turn maneuvers going on. So they did not want an additional turn lane coming in from
77 to the 15th Street intersection. >> Okay. Thank you. If I remember properly, there's Isn't there a turn lane in the middle of 77 anyways? But so turning left is not going to be an issue because there is a turn lane right there, >> right? And you're going to have your traffic flowing
>> well >> 15th Street into the site and and like I mentioned, there's only that pass through lane. If you're in the site and you decide to get out of the turn lanes for whatever reason, you can
exit a right turn only onto 77, but it's not allowing to have direct access in and out of the site from 77. >> It's it's only geared to drive-thru.
It's really the the whole concept is it's a small building, small footprint, double drive-thru going around it. They have very limited parking only for employees and maybe a a troubled guest to squeeze into. That's about it. So,
>> yes, that is correct. And that was something that was asked during the planning commission meeting as well about the possibility of having traffic come in and park and pull up to the counter and that is not >> designed for that >> designed for that. But I I believe Mr.
said if that happened they wouldn't turn someone away for it. But it's not designed like other it's not ser you're not going to go linger like a Starbucks and do your homework or anything. You don't get in get out and you stay in your car. Exactly. It's >> like the Jetsons.
>> So, is I guess this would be for the developer or engineer or whoever, but um is it going to be built essentially like the one over in Callaway area? Cuz if so, uh yeah, there's definitely not a place for you to just park.
>> There's going to be employee parking, but not like a typical restaurant where you want people to come and sit down. Mr. Jason's here. Uh I can have him speak more to the project. >> Sure. Thank you. >> Hi. Yes. My name is Drew Degan. I work
with uh I'm here to represent Seven Crew as the franchisee for this development. Yes. As far as you mentioned as far as the will be built similar to the Callaway store. Um you know the building will be the same build. It's a modular building. It's pre-fabricated. It
actually gets um placed it's built somewhere else and it's placed there. Um the layout is a little bit different than our Callaway store. Um, I think we have several more uh parking space, I'm sorry, queuing spaces within the drive-thru. Um, we also like the access better here because it it does come off
of, you know, not that main road, whereas the Callaway store connects to kind of a larger road where there's more of an issue with with traffic there. Here, we like that we really have that that kind of almost side access off of the smaller road, which should alleviate a lot of those concerns.
So, I know that there were some traffic concerns about some of the Callaway store from staff who visited that that store um was experiencing some some capacity issues with being down some coffee machines. So, that was inhibiting them from serving people fast enough to maintain that that queuing.
>> Awesome. Thank you. Any other questions? Thanks for thanks for answering. >> All right. Is there uh a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Second. >> I think Commissioner Pero got it first that time. All right. We got a motion to
approve from Commissioner War, a second from Commissioner Pero. Is there any discussion from the public? All right. I started on this side last time, so I'm gonna start on this side this time and then we'll come over this side. Mrs. Gray,
>> um my main concern with this plan as designed is that it doesn't really force cars leaving that right turn only exit to um to turn only right. And the reason being is if you look closely at the
design, the north side or left facing um portion of that exit is rounded, which will obviously not prohibit somebody from just exiting and turning left to go north on 77. Uh, I looked up
quite a few other designs of right turn only exits and they're far more aggressive than this one to really angle the exit trajectory only to the right of a vehicle. So, I would just propose that if you guys do approve this, and I think this is a great addition to the
community. Um, I would propose it conditional upon a more aggressive right turn exit to discourage people from turning left on the 77 because it's in a weird spot. The fire departments across the street, you're pretty close to the
main intersection uh there for 390, so traffic gets backed up a lot. And I just have concerns about if people are leaving in the morning and turning left because it's not forcing them right, we're gonna see some T-bone accidents.
>> Yeah, McDonald's has the same a little I feel a little uh I don't know, hurt that you just assume that we only drink coffee in the morning. Okay, maybe I want to get coffee in the afternoon. [Laughter] >> All right. >> I think the McDonald's has the same thing. They don't want people coming out
and turning left. and I've saw some bad accidents there as well. So there there probably does need to be a discou discourage people from coming out onto 77 and making a making a left to go north. I think you know if you circumvent the roads right, you
shouldn't have a you shouldn't have a problem. You know, you can get you can get right down to right back out to a light and make a right. I mean you're not far from going behind Walgreens and getting out and coming back. you double back a little bit, but
in the matter of safety, you could be a smart driver. But yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to see people excessively turning left with people coming off that 390 light going going south. >> So, can I ask the engineer or project manager a question?
>> Sure. >> Is there a way to make that more aggressive so it forces them to make a right? >> I was taking a look at it as he was making the comment. I can't say that it'd be I would think there would be a way to do it. You know, I'm not the engineer for the uh project. I represent
the developer. I mean, I understand some of those things, but I'm not the designer. Um so, I will just say that, you know, again, it was reviewed by FDOT and deemed to be sufficient for their safety concerns. Um it's certainly something that we can ask the engineer to take a look at to see if it would be beneficial to get it more aggressive. I
just can't say for sure that there's not a reason why we didn't do that already. Yeah, I have a I have a statement. Instead of paying thousands of dollars to an engineer, um why don't you just put up a sign that says no left turn, right turn only.
>> That way, we would be happy to do that. >> Yeah. >> Be so simple. >> Yeah. As it's designed now, it is marked with pavement striping to that effect, but we can add a sign below the stop sign to kind of >> they pull out and get t-boned at that point when they don't read no left turn.
Well, >> yeah, absolutely. That's that's no problem at all. >> Absolutely. >> I will say this was close by >> signs only keep the honest man honest, you know. So, >> hi y'all. Vincent Spar with the Kimley Horn. I I help with y'all's traffic
reviews. Um I would I just wanted to add that one of the initial DOT comments on their site plan asks them to create a little bit more of that rightward force movement. Um, so that actually has already been tweaked somewhat to to uh address that concern. And then if you
look at that site plan sheet that we had up there before. Um, the the as Jennifer mentioned, the a big portion of why that egress is actually there on 77 is really for deliveries. Folks who are using that thing daytoday and grabbing their coffee are all going to come out on 15th Street. So that the egress to the north
on 77 is largely just delivery trucks and probably won't be happening during heavy traffic moments of the day. So, it's only really going through, not stopping and getting coffee. >> Exactly. >> That's a good >> You're getting coffee. You're not coming out that way. >> All right. So,
you want to keep the motion the same or >> if we don't see a sign, we can stop in. >> All right. Mr. Mr. Walker, do you still want to talk on it? >> That was one of my concerns. I've I've driven down there and there are a lot more that enters into it. Um, first of
all, the city of Lin Haven's traffic officer, which there is none, has reported no problem. Uh, I have a letter here from uh Drew Degan to Jennifer Boyer, Zack Cochran explaining what can
develop at this type of environment. The load office service for that road is commercial. Last week it was closed. 15th Street was closed. Couldn't get on it. You couldn't get off
of it. City was doing put installing fire hydrants and they had it all blocked off. That's that can happen. That is the only way in and out of this coffee place.
Only way in and out. The 77 route is only an exit. Only an exit. And it's a lefthand turn. And you've discussed it very nicely and kind of convincingly.
The only way to get into 15th Street is off of 390. So, if you're heading over to Bailey Bridge and you want to get coffee, you're going to have to get off at 3 at the light at 390. Come down, turn around, come back, come across, get to
15th Street, go down. They're going to be using this as a proving ground, a training area because in this letter it says this has been done before and they had a problem with backups because they only had
approximately two machines working. One was broken. This was at Tindle and they said here as we say the experience at Tindle is an exception but not the two rule for our two stores to operate.
Wait a minute failed at Tindle. The background it backup is going to be tremendous. You stand there only one way in and out. only another way out and that's on 77
and you're going to have to put stop signs and everything up there. H this is going to be a mess. May I ask a developer a question? I mean being being that you've already
faced the problem, you are going to have more coffee machines at this one. So your line will run faster, right? >> I'm sorry. Could you repeat that? Being that you've already faced the problem in Tindle and you didn't have enough coffee machines to make the line go quicker, >> you're going to have more coffee
machines at this one, aren't you? >> Yeah, absolutely. It's not a matter of >> I figured >> just one one head was was down and so >> Right. Right. >> We'll make sure that you know we have better operational equipment at this one. >> Um >> yeah, your your grand opening is going to be intense.
>> Grand opening is always going to be very very busy. >> Yeah. So there there there's going to be backups when it's new. I mean it might for the first week or so what you know because we go run into new stuff we do so >> yeah we'll do a lot of promotional events there'll be like some kind of
free giveaway type of times and those times we'll be certainly busier but you know and in that time staff is training everyone's kind of figuring out how to run the welloiled machine and as time goes on and we tend to operate better >> aces and places >> so I'd like to go back to the the right
turn thing how difficult would it be to change it where it's more more sharp. >> Um, how difficult is sort of an arbitrary question I suppose but there there are pretty simple straightforward design plans that can be done. I would
just say that it was modified to FDOT's >> I understand >> to be deemed sufficient to DOT which tends to be fairly stringent um as has been >> well there's there's engineering and then there's reality >> of course you know and you can make that thing as hard right turn as you want and
somebody in their F-150 is still going to swing a U-turn if they find a gap out there >> right >> there's only so much we can >> I just don't know how to quantify it um >> I think the >> I can't I can't hear Yeah. >> You're pushing everybody right and then
somebody's going to be turning left into it from the from the northbound lane and could cause an accident. >> True. >> Yeah. You know what I mean? So, I mean, it's you just got to set the wheels in motion. >> I think the more important factor again
is that most customers aren't going out that way. >> Almost nobody. >> I understand it. It's if it's just one thing that we can change that could help prevent an accident, I would rather go that direction. >> So that's kind of the way I'm looking.
But you're right, it's typically not going to be a problem because there a lot less traffic that goes through that. So all right, we have a motion. Oh, sorry. All right. Is there any more public commentary on this subject? Okay. We have a motion on the floor uh approved
by Commissioner Warick and was it who I don't remember who had the second Commissioner Per. So if if I were to modify my motion, I don't know how to quantify it where I'm like I want to have it more sharp right
turn. I mean, I don't know if I need to have come up with an angle or something. I I don't know how you do that. >> And I thought >> made him turn it more than it was originally done. >> Thought that's what we impressed upon
him in the motion. And I I I think >> Yeah. I I still think if it's just something that it doesn't take a whole lot of work to do, it would make sense to do it now as opposed to later where if we run into problems and there's some accidents that
happen, even if it's just one, I get it, you know. So, I'll make a motion. I don't know how to make the motion, but I'll make the motion that I'll I'd like to amend my motion if you're fine with it. um that the right turn is more
angled to the right so it's less likely that they'll take a left turn out onto 77 Kevin how >> I don't >> how do we um >> make them do that I mean we can't go on a motion and say yeah this is more more
definitive right I mean >> they've already satisfied what do requires There's they're going to go ahead and put a sign up on our request. >> Yeah. I mean, the only way to do it is to have them redesign it and bring it back. I mean, >> yeah. >> You know, now if you could say put, you
know, a signage up, you know, but no right turn, obviously that's clear and definitive as far as, you know, a slight redesign. I mean, any kind of redesign, no matter how slight, we'd have to look at it again. And I think they said it's they already did have to angle it more based on what
DOT said. So even if we approve it that they put a greater angle on it, this still's got to come back to us. >> Who's going to see it again? >> If we're asking them to change the design, >> they're going to have to redesign and bring it back to us is what he's saying.
>> Bring it back to the city. >> Where whereas we're we're asking them to, you know, >> no right turn >> to put a deterrent up there in a in a sign, you know, no right no >> left turn sign, right?
Okay. >> Call the vote then. >> So with the amended motion or without the amended? >> You can't because he has to agree to the amended motion and he hasn't. So you have to go with the original motion.
>> Oh, okay. I fall in. All right. Back to the original motion. Mr. Lightfoot, could you call the role? Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Pro 10 Peoples,
>> yes. Public hearing closes at 6:43. >> Welcome to Linhaven. >> Moving on to number 15. discussion and possible approval to approve and authorize and execute task order for sewer force main improvement design to panhandle
engineering in the amount of $382,820. >> Yes, sir. Last fiscal year, we updated the hydraulic model for the sewer system. Uh went through everything, noted our deficiencies throughout the system with uh force man sizes. So, this design here includes to construct a new
16inch and 12-in force mane along the railroad rightway, Kentucky Avenue and Sixth Street, as well as force main improvements on the the southern uh route of Highway 77 collection system and construct a 10-in force mane along the lift station 2 collection basin. And these projects are all based on the
findings of our sewer hydraulic model to upsize all all of the lines and ensure that our collection system is adequate to prevent uh sanitary sewer overflows and and convey the sewer to the wastewater treatment plant. >> Awesome. Do I have a motion for this?
>> I have a comment by me. Um, obviously I'm very clear on doing or not doing business with Chris Forehand. I feel very strongly about this and I believe I think everybody got an email earlier,
but um we're doing business with somebody almost to tune to $500,000 and he's on our budget every single time who has broke the law in more ways than we
can state, who hasn't been held accountable for any of it yet. And I just feel like we're I just don't know. It gives us a bad a bad view and a a bad look to be doing business with this person. He's not the only engineer in
town. I don't know who they are, but I know he's not the only one. Anyway, I just wanted to say that before we vote. >> Mr. Lightoot, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we have an RFQ out because we talked about service contracts how in
this particular one for all the engineers for the city hadn't been renewed I think for like 15 years and we had had the discussion where they need to come to us every 5 years. >> And this one I believe has gone out to RFQ. >> It has not gone out yet. It is in the
process of going out to be advertised. Okay. >> It was uh 2015 was the last time the engineering RFQ was advertised. Right. Okay. 10 years. Sorry. Add an agenda item. That's all I can tell you. >> All right. Uh, is there a motion for
this or any further discussion before we move on? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. We have a motion from Commissioner War, second from Commissioner Pero. Is there any uh discussion from the public?
Yes, ma'am. So, if I'm understanding correctly, um there's no process to choose an engineer. We you only are working with one engineer because I've seen Deubberry come up here. So, explain that to me when you talk about the RFQ has not been
reviewed in 15 years. So, why can't you choose another engineer? So we have a continuing service contract with three engineers. Panhandle engineering, Dubberry Engineers, and M McDonald. We do work with all three of them. This is just a project that Panhandle has been working on in the past. They updated the sewer hydraulic
model and put this work together of knowing what um upgrades needed to be done of our collection system here. >> So this is a continuation of a previous project. It is to piggyback off of the sewer uh hydraulic model work that was done last year and to implement the
findings of that model upgrade. >> Okay. So, I just know that Panama City rotates who they give projects to. Does Linhaven do the same thing? >> Yes, ma'am. We have task orders with all three of them active right now. >> Okay. So, one of the other engineers
could get this. They could. >> Could they do the work? Absolutely. >> Okay. So you don't have to go with this company. I mean I understand your reasoning behind it, but you don't have to do this, >> right? We have a continuing service contract with three three firms total. >> Okay. I just wanted to understand that.
All right. Thank you. >> Any further comments? All right. Thank you. Uh Mr. Lightfoot, if you Well, any further discussion from the commission, I guess I should ask. All right. Mr. Lightoot, if you call the role. >> Commissioner War. Yes. >> Commissioner Pero.
>> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder. >> No. >> Mayor Pro Tim Peoples. >> Yes. Motion approved. Moving on to number 16. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 2025 10491 approving a cooperative agreement
with Odyssey Manufacturing Company at a rate of $169 per gallon of sodium hypocchlorite. >> Yes, sir. A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving the purchase of bulk sodium hypocchlorite for the wastewater treatment plant from
Odyssey Manufacturing Company at a rate of $1.69 per gallon. This has been in our budget every year. We've been using Odyssey for a long time. We're just kind of cleaning it up because we spend over $35,000 per year. It's for the the bleach um at the wastewater treatment
plant for disinfection of the sewer. you answered the question. >> And this is piggybacking off of a contract that was bid out by Bay County. >> Okay. I just learned what hypocchloride is. I guess >> fancy word for bleach. >> Okay. All right. Uh full disclosure, um
chemistry was not my best uh subject in college. >> I had to retake it as well. >> All right. >> Make a motion we approve. >> Second. >> All right. We have a motion to approve from Commissioner Tinder. A second from
Commissioner Pero. Is there any public commentary? All right. None. Um, any further discussion from the commission? All right. Mr. Lightoot, if you call the rule. >> Commissioner Tinder. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perno. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Warick. >> Yes. >> Mayor Proin Peoples.
>> Yes. Moving on to item number 18. No, sorry. 17. discussion and possible approval of resolution 202511492 to award bid for 17th Street and Kang Griffin Pedestrian Improvements to 850
Construction Services LLC in the amount of $110,38063. >> So, this project has been talked about for a little while. Um, last year we built the parking lot there at the corner of 16th and it's at Iowa Avenue to help with parking around Kang Griffin Park because as it was mentioned
earlier, Justin has increased the the sports uh team there. So, there are numerous kids, numerous parents every night at the park. Uh, Miss Parker had actually brought this concern up several meetings about the the speeders going through there and the kids crossing the road. So, this project was designed and
bid out to add raised crosswalks um to help alleviate the speeders through there and allow a safe place for the the kids and the parents to cross the road. >> And do you need to read the resolution for that? >> So, this is Justin's fault?
>> Yes, sir. He has increased it to um to where it needs it for sure. >> It Yeah, it's the rebuild. You know, there used to only be one field at King Griffin, you know, now there's what, four or five?
>> Four. >> Four. There's four fields. >> And they're all named after people from the area that went pro or did went really far in baseball, I believe. >> I do need to read the resolution. A resolution of the city of Linhaven,
Florida, approving an agreement with 850 Construction Services LLC for the 17th Street and Cane Griffin Pedestrian Improvements Project in the amount of $110,38063. >> All right. Is there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve the project. >> Second.
>> Motion to approve from Commissioner Pero, second from Commissioner War. Is there any public commentary? All right. None. Any further discussion from the commission? >> No. >> All right. Mr. Lightoot, if you'd call the role. >> Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Commissioner Wart,
>> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Pro Tim Peoples, >> yes. Motion approved. Moving on to item number 18. Discussion and possible direction to staff on next steps in the process of
searching for a city manager, city attorney. >> Okay. Yeah, this is just the staff looking for direction moving forward and um in your packet when it talks about the alternatives. Obviously, if you have what you need now, you don't, you know, don't need anything else. You don't have
to do anything at this moment. So, that's one of the options which was option E. Uh if you're not ready to do a short list, um you can direct staff to continue advertising the position. Um so, try to increase the applicant pool. You can revise the criteria and readvertise. Um you can appoint somebody
to conduct interviews. um appoint somebody you know right now without doing anything else or like I said you do nothing and keep doing your analysis and come back later. I think it was just if there's going to be a change or some other criteria needed you know
staff was looking for direction forward. >> I do have some suggestions on this um and of course I'm open to everyone's opinion on it. uh don't want to pretend like I'm an expert in this at all, but uh I would like to So, we did get all
the applications back. We had some that met the requirements, some that didn't. There's that we have a spreadsheet that shows all that. Thank you for doing those. Great job. Um it helped out a lot. Um, what I would like to see is um, now a second phase of the Tiger team
modified to where we have I want to try to get the Tiger team to be more uh, some new eyes, some that have been here for a little while and some that have been here for a long time. The initial Tiger team that just looked over, if they met the minimum requirements, was very heavy on the people that just got
here. And there's nothing wrong with that. I want that. But I think we should spread it out some and then maybe get it down to a final list of like um 10. I mean, there was only eight that met the minimum requirements, but I still want to give the ability to some that did not
meet the minimum requirements a shot because maybe some of the department heads um saw something in the did not meet minimum requirements that caught their eye that maybe we didn't. This is an important decision. I want to get as many eyes on it as we can. My other
suggestion is I've heard horror stories of hiring a city manager where um they put like basically put him in the podium with everyone in here and live streaming it and we'll be interviewing them and then someone will take that what we're
asking them and go run to their buddy and tell them what we're asking so that that person has an advantage when they get interviewed. And so we need to figure out a way to we can prevent that from happening. Um, I don't know what the answer is 100%. So, I kind of want to just bring it up now because we want
all the people that are applying to have the same playing field rather than if you go first, you're at a huge disadvantage and if you go last, you're at a major major advantage because you know what we're going to be asking. So, um, I'm open to suggestions for that,
but that's kind of where my mind as is at as of right now. I I personally went through every single resume application, looked at all of them. Um, and out of the eight that met the requirement, um, in my eyes, two of them
need to be disqualified. Um, I'll let you guys decide which two those are. I don't know if you found what I found, but um, so that takes you down to six. And out of those, there was only two that I would say are possible.
And uh I just don't think it's a good pull of people and uh I'm of the opinion we need to readvertise. >> If I may, I definitely agree with Commissioner Warick. I think we need to revertise to increase the pool. Um I've
been through the majority of them and I've also read horror stories uh about some that are on there. Um, I feel like, uh, and I bring this from 2017, I believe it was, when we
interviewed for the, uh, position city manager for Michael White. It was very close to what you're saying, except what actually happened was they kept all the uh, potential candidates out in the hall,
but all the wives could stay inside with their cell phones. and we asked everybody the same questions. So by the time we got down to number five and six and seven and some of these people had flown in, I mean from all
over the country. Um they all knew the answers. Uh and we also interviewed the commission interviewed them one by one in private. Um but that was beforehand but you know before they all did that. I think we need to keep it transparent,
you know, in the sense that I don't know how you do that. Just ask people unless we put them back here in the room and whatever. But, you know, I I don't know how to do that particularly, but I think we should increase the pool for
sure. We have a lot of local people and if you've read most of the like uh Commissioner Warick says, he's read them all. We have a lot of uh people who work construction you know, who have applied. Um, and not
that there's anything wrong with that, but most people that can build a building don't know how to run a city. And we've been proven that's been proven already. So, um, that would be my opinion to to increase the pool.
>> Now, when you say increase the pool, are you saying just to revertise so we get more or are you saying we need we need to change the requirements? Oh, the requirements are kind of goofy, but you know, I mean, people, for example, and I know this might sound very
old-fashioned, but when I read a resume from somebody and it's all done on AI and it's not even their words, I throw them out of automatically. I want to know the person. I want to feel like I'm talking to that person, not to push a
button and make me sound good, you know? I'm not into that. So, but a lot of these applications, one was a waitress at three different restaurants. Um, I mean, we have to set this bar
high. This person is going to be in charge of 200 employees and what they do and how they do it. Um, I just think I think I just think we need to increase the pool.
>> Okay. We I believe the number was we got 39 applica applications and eight met the minimum requirements. Um what do we want to have a minimum pool of people that meet the minimum requirements? Like
how are we going to how are we going to meet expanding that pool? Like because the the idea on paper is cool, but we have to have a plan to get there. You know what I mean? Well, in when you do a resume, I I understand the question for asking, "Have you been arrested?"
But when they say no, and you can pull up an article that shows they have been arrested, it's like, "Okay, well, this person's not going to tell the truth, so throw them out." I mean, there has to be just common sense to some of it. Um,
we don't want to repeat, repeat, repeat. you know, we don't want to go back three years from now and have to fire a city manager and fire chief police. You know, we don't want to have to keep doing that over and over. So, I I think increasing the pool
with honest people is more important. >> So, what's the answer to make that happen? I guess you Commissioner War said just readvertise it. Would you keep the previous people in that pool if they're still interested? Yeah. and then advertise again.
>> Yes, sir. >> How much is it going to cost to revertise? >> I know it's >> going to cost us a fortune if we don't pick the right person. >> Well, that's a good point. I agree with that. >> Doing it in-house won't cost a whole lot. There's a couple of hundred dollars per our um different agencies and
associations that we go through for specialized publications. What the commission may want to think about is uh it was advertised at your minimum. That certainly probably flattened out the application pool. Again, there might have been some people
who applied because they all apply for just about anything, Commissioner Tender, but they would not have made the minimum qualifications list. The other thing is you all could identify the types of experience you want this
applicant to have. Not just years of experience, which is everything, but do you want some that have had actual government or not for-profit experience, which is vastly different from some other experiences, or do you want it wide open? I think your group um again
needs some of that guidance in order to advertise appropriately with what the minimum qualifications and what the preferred requirements are so that you get a um more robust list of possible applicants for you all to take to the
next step. it it's hard to attract at this level um folks if they're already working and they're comfortable in their place and they have families. A move is something that has to be compliment uh contemplated and discussed with the
whole family. Um so you potentially are going to attract those that are already retirees wanting to get to Florida. Is that something that needs to be asked and questioned? We have to be careful. Some of those aren't legal questions.
Questions about um arrest data. It's typically if you've been convicted, we can do arrest data. We can ask arrest, but we always would verify in a background check. So, at some point before it gets to the final, a background should be done on your
selection of individuals to weed out that um along with looking at their social um uh accounts, their social media accounts and things of that nature. >> And is there something uh is I'm sorry,
is there something illegal about asking for res uh references >> or we just didn't ask? >> No, you might not. We do. We did ask >> really >> and sometimes they'll just do available upon request. >> Okay. >> Um that's one of those things that
honestly when you're asking a person for references, they're going to give you individuals who will give the most positive reference. Not that that's a bad thing, but those still have to be checked as well. >> Here's the way I look at it. Um,
if I had three good candidates that I I had kind of somewhat a warm fuzzy until we actually interviewed them, I'd be all for ready to to to actually do a personal interview and and ask them since we only I I don't know what
everyone else is, but since I'm at two, you know, it makes it difficult. So, that's kind of where I'm at. I don't know where the rest of you are at with it. I'm probably at like I could pull out four or five that I would want to
interview. Um I will say this bringing back to their wrestling the packet that was given to us had very good questions and and they answered them. But be careful because one of the questions is have you ever been fired from a board or whatever and someone I'm
not going to obviously not going to say a name but someone said no and all you had to do is just Google their name and they had been you know so just I'm just letting you guys know definitely look at that question as um >> the key word in that question was alleged. >> Yeah. Right.
And I I believe that same person was suing that city. So, we don't want to go there either. >> So, what what are we thinking way forward here? I just want to be able to give the staff what what they need to do. >> I I'm of the opinion to do the same
thing we did before and see if we can get any more viable applicants. That's my opinion. >> I mean, is I tend to lean that way. Um I would like to if we do that I would like
to um continue to have the discussion of once we have viable amount of candidates what's the way forward then so that we don't when we have those candidates take an entire other two weeks to determine okay now that we have the candidates you
know what I mean >> um I don't know how we do that Um, well, part of it I I have an idea, but like for instance, you know, your number one might be my number six, and I'm like, I
I don't think that person's a viable candidate, but you might disagree with me. So, I don't know how you get to that point, but once you figure that part out, who your viable candidates are, I say we do personal one-on-one interviews with them like we did before. And then
we do the um the one in person in the public for everyone to see and do the interview that way also. I don't know if that probably partially answers your question. Probably not totally. >> And it does show a lot how they speak in
public. I mean, that tells you a lot about a person. >> Yeah, I agree. Because they're going to have to be speaking in public. My only I just don't know how to prevent our questions to leak to other candidates like you were saying how they they had
all the answers. We don't want them to go online and create a quizlet of the questions that we're going to be asking, you know. >> No. So >> one suggestion the commission could consider is at your top candidates if you're going to do it in bank or all of you you can actually do some scenario
question that the the um candidate would give a full presentation and you could have different presentations. In other words, you know, you pick a particular problem or issue that you think the city manager may have to face. we give a scenario and they
have to present PowerPoint whatever how they would tackle that you all could then give follow-up questions which based on that presentation could be slightly different but related to the topic that way I would still sequester your top
applicants um but it's their presentation time with some follow-up questions I've seen that done that's one thing to consider as an option Thank you. Yeah, that's good. Um, what do you think about my
suggestion to modify the Tiger team? >> I I'm I was You talking about doing the same thing that they did before >> or Yeah. different people? >> Just have different people. >> I'm okay with that. I mean, I was >> fine with the way it was done this time, but
I mean, it's I think with the standard that we set or the the guidelines that we set for the minimum requirements, for the most part, it's black and white. There's a few where you could you go off the trail a little bit and be like, well, I would say they meet this requirement because of this. But,
>> yeah, I'm I Yeah, I think you're right. I'm just trying to find a way to get more department heads involved that have been here for a while. I don't know what the answer is. Um I just want that to happen because it's going to be their, you know, I want a broad of like a few
new department, newer department heads, what they'd want in their boss, you know, and then people have been here for a while, what they'd want in their boss. I want I don't know if they just want to reach out to me and tell me. I don't know, but I want to know what you how you feel cuz I don't want to hire somebody that
of course not all department heads are going to agree, but I want feedback, you know, um because it's going to be your future boss. So, anyways, uh so I guess our way forward to tonight sounds like we're we want to revertise
revert re and and reform the Tiger team. Readvertise, modify the Tiger team. Is that what you said? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Um, do we need to make a motion on this or just give I guess is a
a question for the attorney. Do we need to vote on this? >> Yeah. I mean, I think you're looking at one of these alternatives which would be continue advertising the position. Just pick a time certain how how many days. >> What we do last time was it 30 days?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we want to do more than 30. >> Did you say you think we should do more than 30? >> No. No. I don't think we should do more than 30. >> Oh, okay. >> I don't know if you want to do 30 days around the holidays either. >> Yeah, it's a good point.
>> I don't know. It might give them time to come down here. >> 30 days at the beginning of the year. What's today? 12. Yeah, we might have to extend it like I don't know 45 days I think. >> Yeah, >> that way we get over Christmas and and
that I don't know >> because you're really going to lose you're going to lose two full weeks and even more. Yeah, with both holidays, >> it actually matters for the staff that has to do the compilation and the reviewing than the applicant. If applicant's interested, they're going to
meet whatever timeline you >> makes sense. Is 45 a day, 45 days enough for the staff, you think? >> Whatever you all say, we'll make it happen. >> All right. >> So, we want to go with 45 days. >> That's fine. And for clarification, the
current applicants, if they meet, if they do not meet qualifications, are we allowed to send them a um what we call a reject letter, a nicely worded reject letter where they can still apply again,
but in our the first screening that they were determined to be rejected, or do you want us to keep everything open and all applicants active? >> I'd prefer it if you did that. Because if I >> everything open. >> Well, I mean, uh, I'd prefer it if you did the reject letters.
>> So, the reject letters will only go to the ones that were in the do not meet requirement. Right. Right. >> Okay. Yeah, I'm good with that. >> And if you all have any that you want added to that, the team would need HR would need to know. >> We can't say that here. We would need to do >> No, we cannot say that here. You'd have
to talk directly with Gerard or myself. I'm I won't be in the pool. >> Um, but that way we can at least call out the people that clearly are not qualified, keep them, inform them that we are readvertising and they do not
have to apply unless they want to add to their application if there's no changes and then readvertise. >> So, the only question is do we want to make sure it's unanimous if we take them um we add them to the where they they're
uh rejected basically. Can't think of a better word. Do you do we want to make it unanimous when we talk to HR department head that if we every one of us says no on a person then that's what it is or do you want to just three of them majority
>> you'd only be talking about the ones that don't meet requirements? >> I would say unanimous. >> So are you saying if there's one that is not on the do not meet requirement? >> No. If they're on the meat requirement and if unanimously we all say I think
they need to be taken off the list and they get taken off the list. But if there's one person that thinks they need to stay on the list then we keep them on the list. Does that make sense? You look lost. >> Yeah, I'm I'm lost on if >> the meet requirement. So we have eight
and let's say we'll just say whatever candidate, right? Candidate Mr. Smith. There's no Mr. Smith in this one. So we'll say Mr. Smith, right? And five of us say, "Yeah, he needs to get he needs to be removed from the list." Then we'll send a reject letter. But let's say four
of us say we want them taken off the list, but only one wants to keep them, then they stay on the list. >> Yeah, for sure. And then on top of that, anyone that doesn't of the ones that already don't meet the requirements, we'll just go ahead and send the letter,
>> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm following. And keep in mind, if they're rejected and we open it back up again, they can reapply, >> right? >> Yes. >> We won't bar that, but at least we've sent them a message that they didn't meet the first. >> Yeah. We just don't want to waste their
time or or >> Yeah. >> Is there any other direction you need from us at this time? >> I'm sorry. It's taking over for >> Is there any more direction you need from us at this time? >> Are you keeping the minimum qualifications the same? I say yes.
>> And then I think they added some preferred qualifications for you all to consider and look at. So basically follow the same process just readvertise for the 45 days. We can send the rejects to those that were not on the
qualifications list. Um we can have HR send out just the eight names again and get a confirmation from you all. or if you want something somebody add >> unanimously we all say remove that person. >> Got that. I think we're good. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> All right. >> Moving on to item number 19. Discussion and possible approval of the interim procedure for section 21 of the city charter specifically relating to the interpretation of advice and consent
pending the charter review. Commissioner Work. >> Yes. So, there's there's been a clear difference in how section 21 of our city charter and the phrase advice and consent is interpreted. Our city attorney has advised that a formal vote isn't required, reasoning that such a
requirement would conflict with the city manager's authority under section 26B to appoint and remove department heads. She f she further suggested that notifying each commissioner and considering their feedback fulfills that requirement, noting that recent appointments like the
fire chief and planning director were handled this way without objection, which she viewed as proof the process was working as intended. While I while I understand and respect the interpretation, I believe it places too much emphasis on administrative convenience and not enough on
transparency. Lynhaven residents deserve to see how their elected officials express consent openly on the record and in a way that can be traced in the minutes for years to come. I believe the charter's language, our past p past and
common sense government governance all point to a more transparent and accountable approach. Requiring a formal recorded vote doesn't take power away from the city manager. It simply ensures the commission's consent is clear, public, and properly documented.
This isn't an an unusual interpretation. In fact, cities such as Bonita Springs, Lake Wales, Orman Beach, St. Lucy Village, and Tallahassee all use the same advice and consent language and require a formal vote before an appointment takes effect. After
reviewing many municipal charters across Florida, I couldn't find a single city that uses advice and consent without also taking a public vote. That tells us something. In Florida, consent has always meant an affirmative on the
record act. When the process happens informally, two major problems arise. First, there's no clear record showing who supported or opposed the appointment. Without without a recorded vote or a mention in the minutes, residents and future commissions can't
can't see how those decisions were made. That lack of transparency erodess accountability. And frankly, it's one of the reasons many in our community have lost faith in how city hall operates. Second, although some recent department head department head appointments were
handled without a formal vote, precedent alone does not establish correctness, especially when prior actions conflict with the charter's plain language. The mere fact that something has been done a certain way does not make it consistent with the charter. For instance, police
chief reamer was appointed by a formal commission vote in January 2017 and fire chief John Delange was appointed by formal commission vote in January 2012, demonstrating that Linhaven's prior practice recognized the need for explicit commission consent. Those
historical examples reinforce that advice and consent was understood as requiring a public recorded vote at the time. The charter's wording, the advice and consent of a majority of the commission is also very clear. If individual conversations conversations
were enough, the charter wouldn't specify a majority. That language signals collective action, not private advisement. It means the commission must act together, publicly, and on the record. This interpretation isn't new.
Across every level of government, advice and consent carries the same meaning. discussion first, formal action second. So if you look at the for federal level, the US constitution article 2 section 2 states that the president shall appoint officers by and with the advice and
consent of the Senate. This clause has always been understood to require a formal recorded vote of confirmation by the Senate. The advice portion allows for debate and questioning while the consent portion requires formal action recorded in the journal of the Senate.
In Florida law, several statutes such as 125.85,420.505, 298.17, and 252.83 use the same term, always implying a public vote or resolution. In Florida practice, consent is never implied or
obtained through informal communication. It must be affirmatively expressed on the public record, ensuring both transparency and compliance with the Sunshine Law's prohibition on private decision-making. At the local level, as I mentioned earlier, many Florida municipal charters
mirror the same approach, requiring a formal recorded vote of the governing body before an employment becomes effective. This reflects Florida's long-standing commitment to open government and reinforces a consistent statewide understanding of how advice and consent functions at the municipal
level. So whether at the federal, state, or local level, advice and consent has always meant transparency, deliberation, and a recorded decision. Put simply, advice is when the commission discusses and gives feedback before the appointment. Consent is when the
commission votes to approve or deny the appointment publicly. I acknowledge that the city attorney's opinions are advisory in nature and intended to guide decision-making. However, this commit city commission as a legislative and governing authority of this city is not
legally bound to adopt or follow the city attorney's interpret interpretation when an alternate reading better reflects the charter's intent or serves the public interest interest. The charter review committee is currently reviewing this section and I'd
like to see them prioritize it for long-term clarification. In the meantime, I'm prop proposing a simple, transparent interim process that ensures residents can clearly see how these appointments occur. And you can see the steps on the screen. Step one, a
department head position such as police chief or public work director becomes vacant or is newly created. Step two, the city manager conducts a search, interviews candidates, and selects their preferred nominee for the position. Step three, the city manager places the
appointment on the city commission meeting agenda, which will include their resume, application, and recommend recommendation from the city manager. Step four, at the meeting, the commission discusses the appointment. Commissioners may ask questions such as
the candidates's experience, goals, or management style. They can express support or concerns. This part represents the advice aspect, giving feedback before voting. Step five, the chair of the meeting calls for a motion to approve the city manager's
appointment. A commissioner moves to appoint appoint, another seconds, and a vote is taken. This part represents the consent aspect, the formal vote. If a majority vote yes, the appointment is conf confirmed and becomes official.
If a m majority vote no, the appointment fails and the city manager must nominate someone else. This process doesn't change our charter. It honors it. It ensures transparency, strengthens accountability, and lets our residents see exactly how decisions are made on
their behalf. Therefore, I make a motion that the commission adopt this interim interpretation of vice and consent for all department head appointments until voters have the opportunity opportunity to clarify the charter through referendum. This approach promotes
openness, complies with the Sunshine Law, and helps preserve public trust and how Linhaven's government operates. Thank you. I >> mean, it's a solid argument. Um,
>> in case anyone didn't hear, she's just getting the paper to do the official motion in the minutes. >> Yeah, I screwed up. I was going to send her the stuff to help her with her her writing of the minutes. My apologies. >> Yeah. So, when I first saw this on the agenda, my first question was, was the
city manager still going to be the one that makes the appointment, makes looks at the resume, gives the recommendation? That was the main sticking point for me. And it looks like that's the case. Um, I mean, and at the end of the day, if you
don't trust the city manager's recommendations to begin with, why are they the city manager? So, um I don't see a problem with this. Uh I I'd like to hope that whoever we have as a city
manager and with Chris right now, uh or if he becomes a city manager permanently in the future that we trust him. So, um I don't have an issue with this. I think he made a solid argument. My only question is I just want to make sure that this if this motion is legal to do,
and if it is, I'm I'm I like it. So >> yeah, we're we're not changing the charter or anything. >> We're just >> it's not a matter of legality like Commissioner Work said. I mean, city attorney this came from Amy give advice. It's advisory. You don't have to listen to what we say. We don't get a vote. Um
obviously it's been done both ways in the past for some reason. More recently um not been voted on, but you know, go back to 2017 and prior you have had votes. Um, I do you 100% agree the charter commission needs to focus on
this and clarify it long term to avoid this from ever happening again. So, you know, there's a couple issues with doing it and well, there's a lot of issues doing it informally is one, you know, there's chapter 119 for Florida public records law, right, that I'm sure
you're really familiar with. And you know, failure to provide a record when the one hasn't been created is not a direct violation of it, but it defeats the purpose of the transparency and accountability of it. So, if we were to go back and say, "Hey,
um, when this department head was appointed, who who was it for and who was against it? I want a public records request on it." And we can't provide it because it was all done informally. That's that's one of the problems I have with it.
Right. And I think a a good smart city manager would when he has those conversations would document that, keep it in his desk and there would be a record eventually if it ever came out. But I'm not saying every city manager has or would do that.
>> I make a motion we accept it. >> Well, I already made the motion. Just need a second. >> So, need a second. >> Okay. So, we got a motion on the floor for the very long uh thing that I don't can't remember, >> but I we understand what it means is to
adopt what Commissioner War has said, the five-step process. And we have a second by Commissioner Tinder. Uh is there any public commentary? Uh yeah. Well, we'll go Mr. Walker first because he's in the front row. I'll just
honor the same process and I'll get you next, Mr. Um the the charter review board is going to review the whole charter. Okay, that's their job and they're going to look at this as I look at it. Um and I just checked with the the chairman of
the board. He doesn't believe that this is a change of the charter. I assume that Commissioner War doesn't consider it a change of the charter. it isn't in the charter. So adding it is changing the charter. Uh
that's and that's up to the people because this has to be come across to the people that are going to be looking at the people's document, not your document, their document. And
they're going to look at it and they're going to say, "hm, okay, listen, I don't disagree with this idea. It is a good idea. We don't have policies in there for an interim city manager. We don't have that in there. We don't have anything in
there for policies. This denotes a policy, which is good. The only questionable thing I have about it, it is a change. If it's proposed as a change, fine. Let it go to the committee and they'll put it in and we'll go for a
referendum on it. Course everybody's probably going to agree with this. We don't have it. We need it. So, uh, that's the way I look at it. I like the idea. If I was on the committee, maybe they'll like the idea, too. They're going to be the final
decision on it. Thank you for the idea. >> Okay. Can you say one thing? >> Go for it. >> So, what I'm stating is it's not changing the charter currently at all. It's just a difference in interpretation. And I I know it's going to sound like
I'm overconfident, but I believe my interpretation is correct over the city attorneys. >> Dr. Lowry. >> Good evening, Commission. Dave Lowry, Harrier Street. Uh Commissioner Ward, I want to applaud you for what you just proposed. I teach public administration
and good governance, accountability, uh and could not agree more. Commissioner Chamber, accountability and transparency is so sorely needed across all municipalities, especially our city government here now, as you ladies and gentlemen are all too familiar with. Um,
Commissioner Wars. Um, and I mean, I could literally give you a doctoral level presentation on advice and consent, but needless to say, he's spot on. I have never heard at the federal, state or local level. And I actually did my own PhD level research as well just
and I concur that I could not find a single municipality in the state of Florida that did a verbal only informal concurrence. I honestly believe if you tried to do that, you would be shortch changing yourself and the citizens that you represent. It's a simple sanity
check. I would highly encourage it. In fact, I would actually take it one step further and say that you would need to do that for your entire leadership team. And I mean as in department heads and deputy department heads. Deputy department heads are literally one heartbeat or one lightning strike away
from being the department head. Right? So just if you look at the federal level or even at the state level, uh the Senate does not just confirm the secretary of the air force for example. They confirm the secretary of the air force and the under secretary of the air force, right? It's a leadership team.
Um, I would consider that for you ladies and gentlemen going forward. One other tidbit in the whole hiring process. I would actually recommend that you consider taking the city manager's um he or she proposes a hire
informally in between you all the city commission or the city manager would submit to the commission the top three a rack and stack of candidate A was our my top pick because of one, two, and three. Candidate B was had this one, two, and
three, but had this, you know, was not as strong. I I didn't I decided not to go with them because of this reason or this background or this issue or lack of training. That way, the commission as you are confirming, you're looking at all top three. You see what the city
manager made their decision based on. You have confidence. You should have a good working relationship with that person and a good level of communication and trust. But you also get, as Ronald Reagan would say, the trust but verify, right? It gives you a little bit more of the dimension. If you're comfortable
with that, that's an internal discussion that you just review. And if you have questions, you can certainly take that to the city manager. It gives you clarity. It gives you purpose. It gives you focus. And for the rest of the community, it gives us transparency and accountability, which we elected y'all to do, and I appreciate you doing it. If
I could, we didn't have an opportunity to discuss the last item uh in terms of the city manager advertisements. If I could, just one potential consideration, consider uh advertising through the American Society of Public
Administration, ASPA. They're actually a professional organization of city managers nationwide. They would have the body, the pool that you guys are looking to bring in talent from just for your consideration. >> Thank you. Any further public commentary? Okay. Uh,
we started on this row, so we'll go here and then All right, Mr. Langford. Oh, sorry. Okay. Okay. And thank you and great presentation. By the way, I know you and I and and some others have had some discussions about
uh the interpretation of our current charter. And uh the one key word to me and I and I've mentioned this before is majority. Uh the the current charter has the word majority in there. And how do we determine majority? I think there
needs to be an official transparent process to determine the majority uh when it when it relates to advice and consent. So I don't feel like this process changes the charter. I think it just emboldens the interpretation of it.
Um, and it just so happens it appears as of right now the charter review committee uh agrees with with that interpretation. Um, to clarify this, we've already taken steps to u to uh rewrite or revise chapter 21 which will
will all or section 21 which will obviously come to you all and eventually make it to the ballot which will essentially do indoctrinate this process um so there's no mistake and interpretation going forward. So hopefully this if the citizens of Loom
Haven want this uh this uh this change to the charter to clarify this or to eliminate that misperception in the future then that'll occur. So um I fully support this and I I think the uh charter review committee will as well. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Can I see the hands one more time? All right, Miss Park. Mr. Parker, >> Jerry Parker, Replace. Um, Chris, you had stated that um that there was a committee for the police chief. Now, is that committee are they going to make
the termination on who gets put in there, the top 10 or top five or whatever, >> they will make a recommendation. So, there there are three outside uh people on the panel along with Miss Hodes and myself. So, a panel of five that the final three to five will be interviewed
by and then we will take recommendations from those three outside and then we will make a final decision on who the police chief will be. >> Okay. So, to make this clear too, there will not be a new committee in reference to the city manager. Is that correct?
>> I don't understand the question. >> So, there's a committee in reference to the police chief, right? Is there going to be a committee for city manager as well? >> I'm not involved in that process. >> There's a Yeah, he's not part of it. Uh there's a there's a tiger team of
department heads that review the requirements and and then send in us if they meet the minimum requirements. Yeah. >> Okay. Just wanted to clarify that make sure. Thank you. [Music] Commissioner War, you said all department heads. Are you referring
though to the ones that are listed and those are by ordinance only? >> Um >> because by doing all I I just need to know that. >> Well, it says um you know it lists them and at the end of it it says and those departments as established by ordinance.
So I don't know what those are. So whatever charter states I would say we we go by that. >> It it is outdated. It it may not fit. So, we may have to come back for clarification. >> Mr. Gray, um, as a additional member of that
committee, I'd like to share with you guys so you guys better understand kind of what we talked about. If you didn't watch the video, um, our committee will have all of our meetings recorded, audio and video, and posted on the city YouTube, so they're available for you to
watch. But um we did delineate out officers of the city and this hasn't been voted on. It'll be voted on in our next meeting, but as the chairman also indicated, we would bring this back to you. So this is all just kind of talking point at this point. Um but we delineated out that officers of the city
of Linhaven would be the city manager, city clerk, and city attorney. And department heads would be the police chief, fire chief, public works director, finance director. and those departments is established by ordinance. So to answer that question, I think you would just need to look at all the
ordinances that have been passed and figure out if there's additional department heads that were passed through ordinance versus not. And then separate of that, as a resident, I would ask if there's department heads that are not being
passed by ordinance, how do they get to exist? Is there a procedure? And I haven't looked this up yet, so I'm just flying off the cuff here, but are there department heads that exist in the city that exist and did not have some kind of commission direction or ordinance to put
them in place? If that's the case, I guess that's something as a community we just need to think about and really through our representatives is do we need to go back and ratify current department heads through an an ordinance just to make sure they're all in there
or do we just need to go one by one or something like that's what you guys get paid for. You figure that out please. Yep. Is all right. Any further public commentary? All right, we have a motion on the floor with a
second. >> Any further discussion from the commission? >> I I just wanted to ask if the city attorney wanted to provide anything on the other side of the interpretation. I think you guys have heard what what Amy said. I think it's just more of the,
you know, the city manager has the power and they he or she would, you know, hire and fire all employees. So, it's just getting rid of that contradiction, which I but I totally understand your interpretation. >> What contradiction you're talking about between 26 and 21
>> when you have the, you know, you appoint the city manager that's going to be in charge of all personnel. Uh but but again I don't want to get too far into this because we've done it the other way. I say we prior to me you know right when Junior was here we've done it the other way. So you know I don't want to take a hard and fast
line on this. I do think it needs clarification. It sounds like the charter committee >> is committed to move forward with that. Um okay been said. >> All right. Any further discussion? All right, Mr. Lightoot, if you'd call the role. >> Commissioner War,
>> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yep. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Mayor Pro Tim Peoples, >> yes. Motion passed. All right, moving on to item number 20, which was previously
number 12, which was approval of resolution 2025 11490 for the purchase of a Ford F550 diesel vacuum truck from Jetvac Equipment Company LLC in the amount of $371,000.
the resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving the purchase of a Ford F550 diesel vacuum truck from Jetvac Equipment Company LLC in an amount of $371,000. And I believe earlier I said that we were foregoing a generator. I meant to
say a bypass pump that was budgeted. We've purchased several bypass pumps over the years. We were going to purchase one more. We're going to forego that pump, use the $51,000 for um that was budgeted for that to apply to the $320,000 that was budgeted for the vac truck and make this purchase. This is a
non CDL truck. We already do have a CDL truck. I emailed you all um Monday uh with some concerns that had surfaced over the weekend about this purchase. It was planned for for about two fiscal years now just to help out with our utilities and public works staff. Anybody on our crew can hop in this
thing and go to work. we don't have to rely on a CDL driver to come in at 2 a.m. if we can't get a hold of them or a contractor. And it will allow for any type of work on the sewer system, the uh water uh distribution system as well as
the storm water system. >> All right. Is there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. There's a motion to approve from Commissioner War, a second from Commissioner Pero. Is there any public commentary,
Mr. Walker, >> last one I added. Um, it's not confusing, but u there's a little bit of information in here that's lacking. Um, it says here, um, in 2021 we acquired
the first vacuum truck. That's not true. We had one before that. I asked about this a long time ago, and nobody's been able to prove what happened to it. It was a It was a truck that was designed and and brought in for cleaning the
curbs because you couldn't use it to clean the curbs. was discarded, but it was a vacuum truck. It disappeared. Nobody's been able to tell me where that went. The second one we have is only
Yeah. 22 21 only a couple years old. And the reason we have to get a new one is because the drivers have to be CDL approved for the old one.
It doesn't make sense. We have drivers that work for us that are all CDL approved. >> None of them are approved. >> There's only a small number of them that >> Well, the one I talked to that was just
there, he has he came out of retirement. He's CDL and he drives the truck that picks up the agriculture. So, the information we're working at is not exactly right.
The total here will be $371,000 because $50,000 is added to it. Are we going to sell the old one? Are we going to get any money out of it? Doesn't say anything there. There's a transportation charge for $50,000 to get here. There's a
deduction. Going back to the CDL, if you're telling me our employees none of them are CDL or hired, I think you better check because my
conversation with that gentleman is very interesting. So because of the CDL requirement, we're going to have a company make a truck or making a truck that doesn't
require that will allow me private trucks on our road commercial [Music] require a CDL. I'm a little confused in this in in what
your people, your hired people are saying and what we have on our scale. So, multiple things there. One, the city has never owned a vac before 2021. We did own a street sweeper at one time. Yes, it had a vacuum concept to it, but
two totally different trucks, a street sweeper and a back truck. We paid $318,000 back in 2021 for the original back truck that we still have. We are not selling that truck. It is used every day for storm water maintenance, for sewer maintenance. We have a driver
that's dedicated to that truck. He uses it daily. This will allow the day-to-day water leaks, sewer backups, those kind of issues to be resolved with with the rest of the crew. We have, I believe, three CDL drivers kind of in that group
there. The who Mr. Walker is referring to drives the knuckle booms. That's in the sanitation department. if we were to start pulling those drivers off of sanitation trucks, we would not be picking up garbage and yard debris. So, couple different things there. Um,
I think that was all. Did I miss anything in the in the questions there? >> Only point I was going to add is the I think one people are thinking we're getting this truck just because of the low amount of CDL drivers and that's not
the case. even if we had CDL drivers, we we need a backup system in case our primary uh back truck goes down. And there are times in the middle of the night when they get called out, and it happens quite often where they get called out.
And if you can't get a hold of any of those people are CDL drivers, then you you you get you have more flexibility as far as getting those people out there to work those those jobs. >> That is correct. We are the only municipality with only one back truck. Other municipalities have multiple back
trucks. Um, again, if this truck, if we do not purchase this truck, is it going to affect me? No. I'm going to have to deal with the budget accordingly. Is it going to affect residents? They're not going to notice. The work is still going to get done. The the sewer leaks will still be fixed at 2:00 in the morning,
but it's the workers that are called out in the middle of the night that will be struggling. This is what the the equipment help or who the equipment helps. And the couple other points I make is one, there are times when the main truck goes down for maintenance. Absolutely.
>> Um, so you don't and then you have to go out and try to get one from one of these places that and they'll charge you $250, $300 an hour. And if try doing that in the middle of the night, you're not going to get one. Good luck. Um, the other point I was going to make is
this truck does the same jobs as the the the main truck. The only difference is the storage of the water. The the the non CDL holds what? Four yards and the main one holds 12 yards. So, you got to make more trips.
>> That's correct. >> All right. Any further public commentary, Mr. Langford? >> So, first off, um I want to thank Commissioner Warick. Um, I'd sent you all an email uh expressing concern regarding this specific agenda item. Mr.
Warick set up a meeting with Mr. Lightfoot, myself and and and Mr. Warick um to discuss this. Um we we talked at length about this. Um and I learned a lot in that meeting and I'm glad that that we sat down. Some of the things I
walked away with I I understand why we're doing it. Um, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand with with some areas. Um, and to Mr. Warick's point that that he just made that the public thinks that we're purchasing this
because the city has a lack of CDL drivers. It specifically states in the in the in the packet that however, the city currently faces a shortage of qualified CDL drivers required to operate the truck due to federal licensing requirement. to address this
challenge. Staff have tested a nonco version of a vacuum truck, etc., etc. So, let's I just want to be very clear here. My problem isn't necessarily with the amount of money that we're spending or the fact that we're purchasing another vacuum truck. My problem
specifically surrounds the fact that we have unqualified individuals working for the city of Linhaven. When I say unqualified, I mean they are not CDL qualified. Okay, that's that's the the nucleus of of my frustration with this.
So, I brought this up to Mr. Lightfoot and I and I learned an interesting point here. There was an individual, he may or may not still work for the city. I don't I'm not going to butcher his name. Um, not that it matters, but this individual developed a detailed training plan in
2022 when the when the federal licensing requirements increased uh for CDL. This individual developed a detailed plan on how to get employees qualified in that department for the city of Linhaven to
to get their CDL. Okay. An individual, as we call it, the military ran it up the chain of command. That plan was axed, was not approved. I'm not trying to open up a can of worms here, but it was allegedly the the previous city manager
did not allow that. So my point here is is that we've now got some residual effects that we're dealing with here. Okay, we've got city personnel who thank goodness for them because these these guys and gals, they do great work. Okay, my frustration is is that we have
somebody on the books. They need to be qualified to do their job. All right, we have the same qualification process where I work. Goodness gracious. We get recqualled every year. I've been doing this for
26 years. Every year I have to go back and get re-qualified to do my job to make sure that I meet the standards that's required to ensure the safety of of what it is that I'm doing. Okay. All I'm asking for is that when you all approve spending,
attach some strings to it. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> So, we do in the in the approved fiscal year 2026 budget. It was in the 2025 budget as well. We have money uh set aside. It's actually in the sanitation budget in the training line item to send
some of our public works employees to CDL school. That will be treated just like we do any other type of tuition uh plan where we pay this the employee has to commit to a certain amount of time as an employee at the city. Of course, it will be prrated as each month goes down.
So, if they leave, they have to pay a certain amount back. Um that way we can get more of our employees uh CDL licensed. is assigned to a CDL truck and that's part of their their uh job. They have
CDLs. They are not driving CDL trucks not having the proper license or certification and we have to keep up yearly with their qualifications. What we're talking about is in public works, there are other employees not assigned
to drive knuckle booms, garbage trucks, or CDL equipment. And that this would provide much more flexibility to the city to respond to needs. >> Piggybacking off of that, the for example, a heavy equipment operator 2
position requires a CDL whereas a heavy equipment operator one position does not. So we don't have people that are in the operator 2 position that are unqualified without a CDL. So they have to have the certain criteria to even be hired on in that position as well as a
sanitation driver one or two or any of our other uh driver requirements. >> Uh any further on this row? >> Okay, go ahead. Just real quick, Chris, it sounds like you're going to be the interim city manager
longer, sir. So, um, this is just a basic symptom of training deficiencies of the past, kind of the proverbial kicking the can down the road, and you ladies and gentlemen are now here holding the bag for it. Um, one thing I would respectfully encourage you and
your team to do with the HR managers, do a citywide employee audit. basically look across the entire spectrum for training. What do they need to do officially to do their job? If there are deltas and gaps there, what is a get well plan? It will probably not be a
single year, but if you can get them on that right pathway and kind of an established timeline much like that proactive public works individual did previously that got shot down three years ago, I think that would be helpful for the entire city regardless of who steps into the city manager position. It
also gives the city commission an opportunity to know exactly where your deficiencies are and if there needs to be a certain um training funding allocation or special program set up to get everybody up to speed. I know it we've talked about it before in the sewage plant tomorrow as well treatment.
This is not just indicative of this one. I would dare say probably across the entire city. So if you get a handle on it now, if you get a get well plan in place and what gets it corrected is what you focus on and work on and get it across the finish line. So it's just um
just some little humble recommendation or so. I really appreciate what you're doing and if you can do that too, I think these folks would be very grateful. I know the citizens would be as well. >> Thank you, S.
Um, I also had emailed out about this. Chris, I appreciate the information you sent back, particularly about the CDL program. What is the timeline on when we're going to start seeing people certified in that program? >> It's been quite busy the past couple of
months, so it's fell to the back burner, but it will get resurfaced. >> Okay. Um, what is the cost approximately for each person to be certified? I believe the cost was 2500 to 3500 bucks um for the >> you tie it to the retention, >> right?
>> Okay. Um what is the cost to the city for one of these concerts? We do >> about $1,000 per per band or group plus any overtime or any other thing. I mean, we'd have to get a deeper analysis on that.
>> Got it. Um I love quality of life events. I love the parades. I love the concerts. I don't love them so much that our employees are suffering having to go out at 2 a.m. the same employee every single time to vax stuff. I have spoken
numerous times about how these events should not cost the city a penny. There are so many ways that the city can do these events at no cost to the city. We have amazing event promoters in our own community that could take these on at no cost to the city. The city just needs to
development statement of work and put it out for bid as a concessionaire type contract. That means the city does not pay anything. In fact, the city can actually choose the vendor based on how much money the vendor can bring back to the city. I used to do these in the Air
Force. They're great. We could do it for Christmas parade. We could do it for Fourth of July. Why are these events costing us money when we're we have people that are not getting certified? Like it just I cannot
understand it. Um, as far as this, I mean, this to me is open and shut. I do have one question though that I emailed and maybe just didn't get back to me yet on it. You're busy, but I asked about the possibility of selling the other truck and you said you actually had
looked at that and the quote was so low. What was that quote? Do you know about how much >> we were offered? 221,000 for the other truck >> that originally had costed how much? >> 318. >> Okay. Thank you. Any further comment?
Any further discussion from the commission? >> All right, we have a motion on the floor with a second. >> Uh, Mr. Lightoot, could you call the role? >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes.
>> Mayor Pro Tim Peeles, >> yes. Motion passed. Meeting adjourned.