##VIDEO ID:WlzD6r9uJPw## calling our uh pre-commission meeting to order at 8:02 a.m. good to see everyone um this morning we have our City attorney Miss Amy Myers she's online uh good morning good morning good morning so she'll be here with us um via audio uh course we have our agenda before us but before jumping into our agenda want to give us an opportunity um to discuss the concluding matters to um our situation with uh with Chief Ry um of course all of us are aware that um his hearing was on yesterday and the concluding matters that came from that um we've also received the reprimand that um or have been notified of the reprimand that he received from city manager being uh 25 days of uh suspension without pay getting you know that's effective today or in of business yesterday but you know going into effect today and so um I know back in March we had talked about uh and think took a vote on allowing you know due process before some action was taken on behalf of the city and so that ended on yesterday um with his his hearing yesterday morning morning and of course again um city manager followed up with her with her reprimand so I know we' been getting probably getting some feedback from the community and such I've gotten I think two emails in regards to it followed up on those um certainly I know there's social media posts and things of that nature but in regards to you know direct contact regarding yesterday's hearing and city manager reprimand has got a couple emails about that so I've uh have followed up on that um and one individual just um after corresponding with them just wanted to um ensure that there was you know that this was being taken seriously and you know what they asked for was something that the courts are already covering anyway um they might not have been aware of that so just making them aware that what they're hoping we would do is something that the courts has already um it's one of their um stipulations as well so that that citizen was satisfied with that that that's being covered um in that in that manner so of course as a commission as M Myers has um explained to us recently that we have no um that this matter doesn't necessarily doesn't fall on our per you know perview to uh you know accept or not accept uh the the reprimand that has been given to you know Chief Raymond that is something that falls under the city manager with his employment however at this time as a commission um would like to give us the opportunity that if you are not in agreement with the uh with the city managers reprimand this would be a time to you know make that expression if you're in agreement with it you still Express that's fine but for those that may not be in agreement with it you know just to feel like anybody's trying to stier you know anybody's um you know thoughts so um if there's someone that's not in agreement with it then you can speak at this time well this will be no surprise I don't agree with it I know the city manager knows that we've I've expressed that to her um yeah I know we brought up we wanted to wait which we didn't need to wait because they attorney said you know based on the Civil citation of Prior history city manager could have taken action then but um yeah I I uh I wholeheartedly disagree with it um I don't think it's right I think Ry has a history um of bringing negative publicity to the city um I don't know how the others feel about that but um I'm of the opinion that um I want to go back to what I did before and uh I want to add to the agenda to censor the city manager basically all that saying is whether you approve or disapprove of a certain action the city manager took and if you want to bring back sensor and me that's fine I'll even second it if you want I want to say anything about S I just I'm waiting on it commissioner Ward chill man don't I'm good I'm not upset what I'm saying is you deflecting to me has nothing to do with what you're saying right so no I just I know last time I brought it up but let's we're not going I'm saying let's not go down that road until that happens that's what I'm saying I'm just saying I understand what you're saying so I'm saying I'm cool right now I am too but you targeting that at me I'm I'm not having anything to do with what you about to say with you're censoring so when we get to the agenda we'll talk about that okay but the only reason I'm bringing it up is when I brought it up last time the response was was you wanted to censor me I'm not saying whether you should do it or do it that's going to be up to you so I have no problem what I'm saying is okay just chill I am I me chill I'm not up you're not but okay um so I will have one point of clarity um and I'm not disagree with anything you know those are your thoughts one point of clarity which I think needs to be clear and you and I discussed this before is that when this initially happened and we talked to our City attorney and our HR attorney they advised us to withhold doing anything at that time whenever this all came to light in February so they advised us to withhold taking any action at that time based on the case itself um Chief Ry you know stated it was a medical condition and so that would put us in a different line of um it would put us on a different Pathway to resolving this issue and so that was the advice we were giving initially not that hey you can take immediate action it was initially stated um by Mr Marcy and Mr obos that we should delay and Tak an action until everything is actually discovered and everything is ironed out now later on after we're on this path then it was stated something differently right so um but at that we had already taken that path to wait until things concluded so um just saying that for the record I didn't want anyone to think that uh initially we were told that hey take action and there was no action taken when initially we were told with hold taking action um which is what we all had agreed to do and essentially we agreed to remove ourselves from the situation allow the city manager and her staff to you know move forward and what they needed to do from HR perspective so um but we'll come back to your censoring once we get to the actual agenda yourself um anyone else would like to express any or you finish with your expression I I just um I think there's enough there that I don't think he's the caliber person that that should be in that position now and that doesn't mean I think he's good at his job I I've never said that I'm not trying to bash him but from his b um from his past history um he's not the caliber person that should be in that position okay all right um anyone else want to express any discontent with the city manager reprimand of Chief rooky R I think it should be noted that there's going to be in his in the in his letter reprimand that any more actions would be in uh automatic termination I think so is yeah that's what I'm saying I just wanted to because I wasn't said earlier I just wanted to point that out because um yeah uh I would say this if a 25 days suspension is like n Grand so I don't know about you but n Grand is more than a slap on a wrist to me um I understand that uh that there's different opinions on what should have been done but uh it's kind of hard to argue that based on the case even the prosecutor himself agreed with the plea deal so if I know that I initially voted to you know I was in the minority of a vote earlier so I felt like action should have been taken earlier but once it got to the point that uh the court looked at it it's going to be hard to say hey now that the has happened the court has gotten together and said no contest with no adjudication now we're going to fire him I don't I don't think that that as much as people disagree there's going to be people that disagree with it I don't see how you can disagree with the court of law cuz then you're saying that we know more than they do and I just don't think that that's the case um I know there's a past of things that have happened uh I don't know what I'm trying to say here I just wanted to point all that out that's kind of my thoughts on the whole thing anyone else well I'll I'll just go after Sam and and his points are taken Jamie your points taken um U I think summing up what you just said and what you said Jamie um is that on the job this guy does a good job um but um his character was in question um by by one commissioner and that's the point that he wants him to not not be performing his job with the city linhaven any um city manager made the the the action Swift upon adjudication you have to live with that you're putting it you're you're putting yourself on the line and it's now time will tell if if anything comes out with Ricky in the future um uh you know I'm I stand with what you said as far as the court of law is concerned um and we're taking action immediately upon you know the adjudication so um that being said it's just uh it puts you in a position where any anything happens with with said person in the future you know you're you're putting your three votes on the line you know that's that's a that's a lot that's a lot for you to go out and do but you made Swift you made a swift decision um he's had he has a punishment uh and I think time's going to tell um you know anybody who if if things are as you say sir and his questions in his character is in question it'll come out again you know it's already come out multiple times y it'll come out again but if you I think we I think he's had enough well chances I do I I I I hear what you're saying you know and I'm not giving de years but you know you can obviously tell you have one you have one stand I have another and I'm supporting her decision okay okay and it you know and and but any future actions falls on her as well so so all I that all I asked is we put that to a vote that's all I ask I mean that that we have confidence in what she did or didn't that's the sensor vote that's what basically the sensor vote is whether you approve or disapprove we'll talk about that later but confidence in what she did she has to live with that yeah and we'll see I just think we could put that on the record when we vote on it we're talking about it right now I I went on a record though all right commissioner vff do you have any taking minutes aren't you any thoughts there a record of that no I mean a formal vote well um I don't always agree with any of y'all I mean at some point in time I've disagreed with your position or but I have to look at it as to moving this city forward and I'll go on record to say I I do have confidence in Miss Gainer um I don't always agree but we're a group of five and our primary responsibilities is to make policy and handle the budget um I also am one not to go back it's like when I was principal I have a kid that came in because they were disrespectful that day I wasn't going to go back and say well you were shooting spitballs uh two years ago you were I wasn't here then with all the other stuff with Mr Mr Ry I'm dealing with right now um and as uh Sam said it was dealt with in a quar of law so um if the citizens of this town do not agree with what we're doing there's an election in March I'm up for election if you don't agree with my stand of supporting um the city manager then that's an opportunity the D to voice your opinion um but I have to think on uh moving the city forward we've been kind of stagnant lately because we've spent so much time discussing this issue um I'm ready to get my hands um dirty I'm at wet I'm at busy um and and move forward with that being said we'll move to our uh consent agenda there any questions about consent agenda um the lift station generator this is a continuance this guy Mr light this guy yes sir so this is kind of just I think we had one last meeting or the meeting before as well um there's just so many of our hmgp and cdbg grants out there that were approved from 2019 to the 2021 time frame um just you know the bureaucracy and the red tape of the state for sure um so just this is another one that we're extending um to 2025 um this project is already under construction the generators are scheduled to be delivered in November um so it should be well completed before the deadline but this will give us time to finish the construction and then do the closeout documents required by the state and the feds and these generators are going to be at lift station yes so there's four of them Lift Station 2 3 4 and five and lift station two which is right here Illinois Avenue is the only um trailer mounted one the others are all stationary and they're trailer mounted near near near houses um noise so they're all they have the noise package on them uh the the insulated doors and everything so they will be quiet when they run or I mean they will be quieter than normal when they run right so we'll know when we hear from the ne correct you shouldn't hear any noise complaint it's just like the ones we have at the the water plants um the the ones out here it say City Hall have the the noise package on them as well okay um and I'm sorry I could not pull up my agenda so I was not prepared no no I'm in on my computer for me to read uh the supporting documentation so the the supporting documentation from from this one is from the for Department of Emergency Management it's their standard contract language um we don't write any of that the the state provides it to us to have our commission approved appr and then once the commission approves it authorizes the mayor to sign and execute it and then the um Emergency Management director will sign and execute it and then we'll have it for official documentation okay all right any other questions on consent agenda number 11 final reading of ordinance 1166 of course um C the attorney's already has basically has explained this to us already which is us primar just updating the language um to be current regards to the uh the FEMA regulations anything else You' like to say about uh ordinance 1166 Miss Amy no but I'll answer any questions you got any questions for her it's just it's just flood plane stuff right and it's yeah so it's all it's all driven by the update to the flood plane Maps it's going to effect October 24th so uh FEMA well FEMA's representative has reviewed all of your code suggested some reorganization and some repeal particularly with regard to the uh Forida building code local technical amendments um so it's a big document but um it doesn't actually change a lot does this tie into our is this in any way another step or or point in our vulnerability study that's being finalized right now now they're not they're not the same I but they will but they will compliment each other yes okay all right any other questions on number 11 all right moving on to uh new business discussion of possible approval for the resolution amending Chapter 70 of the fee schedule for utility rates any questions on that one um this is water sewer garbage commercial and residential right Residential Water um it will be increased by 15 C per per thousand gallons commercial water uh volume by 15 cents per thousand gallons residential sewer volume um by a157 a157 per thousand gallons and then commercial sewer by $3.75 per commercial gallets and no change to sanitation no change to sanitation here but aren't we taking an increase in commercial sanitation commercial is in the commercial the commercial people going up on their price well as they go up on their prices of course that is adding additional businesses that's the reason you'll see when you see that go up it it's running about 52,000 about what they put in but you've seen that go up to like 55 maybe 56 and I I I don't know if yall were the last time we did the contract we went with Waste Pro that's right and we had Baldwin container that's right now can you tell me with Baldwin with waste proos price increases for the coming year or whatever they're doing that it's going to that it is it equal or is it more than what Balwin container was charging cuz me as a commercial uh as a commercial um user the the Waste Pro dumpster is way smaller than the baling container dumpster that we had so I you know cubic cubic feet in the dumpster I mean it's what you it's what you hold on um I mean that shouldn't have Chang I'd be I'd be willing you know should have changed oh well it it it did that's a smaller dumpster that we got back there and that that Waste Pro dumpster was taller and had openings on the side so it it held more that the uh you know I don't I don't know what the name the name of the game is in the sanitation business but the dumpster have has that angled lid on it now but I'm I'm not going to take this down to just one one account sure but if these people are going up you know Waste Pro charging that the increase that they can charge per contract it it is it the same I mean are they more expensive now than what Ballwin container would be or was because you know we we switch horses to say hey we're we're we're saving money the city's saving money that that was our big Point may maybe I'm just because I've been around so long on you know I'm I'm seeing I think what happen and and why wouldn't we pass the increase on to the commercial customer if we're getting if we're getting bit on the butt so I remember with Waste Pro and ball from from what I can remember we have to look at the minutes on it um Baldwin's contract submitted as they came back and said they submitted the wrong numbers so the numbers they submitted was like $50,000 a month versus $50,000 annually but staff couldn't go back and say here hey here's your you know your your submittal you know your your bid and you need to change that so that's so so so one thing we need to know is that in every RFP that we do we do put an automatic they do a 3% that was even in Ballwin containers they went up according to um um every year what that uh percentage rate was so there's an there's a 3% just like water goes up with the county you know they're going to take it absolutely we've already received that receive inflation it's gas and it was according but now are we spending more with them than we are with the last guys but B when we with bald we didn't accept theirs because theirs was a different proposal so as opposed to 52,000 a year their proposal total like half a million dollars yeah they screwed up they just messed up the application so so that's why we didn't they would have been less I think yeah but legally you can't do that you know that's the thing you can't I think kind of what you're getting at though is in the future it would be nice when we get the Zinda package to little notes like that that says hey this is the price per year but in their contract they have put in a 3% increase worth as this company has not yeah they did that was in that's in our bid docks that even Balwin did that I mean yeah they did it as well I'm saying just for us since we're not experts on contracts it'd be nice to have like a little star with a little hey make sure you check this part out you know just give bring our eyes to it and then also that increase are the cons is the consumer taking that 3% increase or is the city eating it it's commercial and I think the city's eating it you're you guys are eating it you're not passing along to the commercial customer so that' be something to and that's something that we got to look at because I mean as a commercial account I mean I'd understand if my bill went up if the if the people charged more I'm not asking them for it to happen I could go down a day on my pickup if it's too much you know cuz I could I could i' pay less based on getting paid Pi up one last day not that I don't I want I don't want bags of trash hanging around my dumpster because that's never a good thing but I just I just think we have any other concerns about wasbo that's first have we had any other concerns commissioner V so no concerns I mean from um of course you have people that you know hey they missed my dumpster today or something happened like that of course um but we haven't had any concerns as far as you know um reliability or anything with them um of course the you know the pricing has always been the number one topic since um the RFQ or RFP was done um last year year before um and if you recall we did have BCC like you discussed and then when they turned in their new RFP the pricing was messed up um and their RFP was disqualified for the the way they filled the pricing sheet out they have been cheaper we don't know because they they had it incorrectly so the of course the rates are different than than what BCC was um however it's the new rates that were the lowest rates for the RFP BCC every contract that that I know the city has had has had the CPI uh language in it where the the provider can go up based upon the CPI um that's not determined by us not determined by uh the vendor it's determined by the national average um so that's what they are eligible to go up as part of their contract so no one's complained about their dumpster size change um we did have some issues where when they swapped the dumpsters they did put the the incorrect sizes you know they either put too large or too small and I'd like mine to be too large we we can we can definitely look and see if if they put the wrong dumpster but we did have some issues where that you know the one business had an yard the business next door had a four yard and they got swapped so we had to swap those out and that may be one of the issues you're talking about there um but again with the pricing every contract that we've had has the the language where they can go up by the CPI um whatever it is that year as long as they submit the letter and the information sanitation we're always talking how good sanitation in good shape and whatnot but why not why not pass those increases along to the customer and keep sanitation do and get of Sanitation falling behind because of the increase yeah so like what you're saying is why we're going up on everything else but we're not going up on Commercial we're not going up on Commercial sanitation we're taking a almost 4% increase yeah so why should the city eat the money I I mean I'm I'm turning on myself here you know as AAL account but but I'm looking out for the city and the fact that you know we if if the city takes a 4% increase the the commercial customer should take a 4% increase yeah the way yeah kind of the way I see it is like with taxes for example that's a percentage so it takes care of know but when it comes to Enterprise funds that's a service that the city's providing you chose to move here and use our services so you pay for your you pay for the services that you get so to me I'm with you I think that if it's a 4% increase it should go to the consumer so this resolution you like to see well I mean don't be willy-nilly look at it and we can can Prov yeah the letter that Waste Pro provides with their rate increases we can put that as the documentation and have the same you know at the budget workshops and everything for you all to discuss and and vote on exactly how much money are we talking about anybody have an idea so the the bill I don't know what come down to on Bill 4% of whatever they did 3.36% okay go up so if your rate x amount of dollars a month it's going to go up 3.36% in October for commercial use um how it is right now it would be the city's portion goes up 3.36% and then if if you all decide at the at the budget workshops to pass that on then the commercial would go up to 3.36% as well so does the way it works is the consumer pays the city and then the city pays correct okay correct yeah so when when Stephanie sends her bills out we have our commercial rates that the city charges and then at the end of the month we write a check to Waste Pro that you all see on the on the warrant list and that ranges from 50 to $57,000 a month on average and when is the contract back up for if I remember right it's a three-year contract with two options to renew um two oneyear options to renew I believe but is that it's one threeyear option to Ren one three one three year with the option to renew to answer your question if it's $50 to $557,000 a month the cities the city's would be paying about an extra $1500 a month yeah yeah correct out of our pocket out of our pocket unless you all decideed the budget workshops to pass that on to the commercial users and I can have a we can do that analysis and get it back to you if you want to so so you're asking on changing rates right no this is for the uh this well go yeah Water and Sewer this is just water and sewer this doesn't include the sanitation right but in in it said no changes to sanitation so if we if we were we would be doing it now yes we would actually go back um on Monday do an analysis bring it to you on Tuesday if that's what you would like yes so we look $18,000 thinking we were talking about last yes we'll do that so if you revise that some all right number 13 uh discussion and possible approval for development order multi tendent sh infrastructure any questions on this one so if I understand this is this just for storm water retention Mr Amanda Excuse me yes so the site that um Circle K is hoping to go on they submitted a development order they're on the corner of 389 and 390 uh they did not have any storm water facilities on their site plans when they submitted their development order and so we were asking you know where's the storm water and um and then we told what the storm water is being done for the whole parcel not just the Circle K portion but a bit like um where Publix is and AI that storm water Pond was designed for the total maximum impervious surface that could go on that commercial subdivision to accommodate sunnies and and all of those we didn't know what was going to go on there but the storm water Pond was designed to accommodate everything this is the same situation so the owner of the whole of the property um was the one who was designing the storm water facilities for the entire parcel and Circle K are just kind of tenants and they submitting the development order for their parcel so they don't have storm water on their site plans so we need to have the storm water brought to you the storm water ponds need to be uh there might be multiple businesses there there are going to be others but these ponds will be for everything yeah and these have to be approved first when I looked at the diagram are these ponds in the front like are they along uh 390 they're along 390 yes sir are they along like are they on the side of 390 are they the front or the back they're on the front of of 390 and I believe that from what Jim slanina from pan Hansel engineering was saying is they're doing that because when 390 is widened if there are ponds there already then fot has to design their ponds to accommodate that storm water also whereas if they don't put the ponds there then there could be potential issues in the future when they put the road in or something that's what I was thinking are they going to be in the way of the of the of the Road expansion when yeah but then fot will Design when they put their pwns in their ponds will take that capacity into their ponds maybe the storm water person can explain that better know I get it so we're building we're building something that's going to come along and get tore up in the future yep but but if it was the building up there or the parking that would get tore up some bureaucratic that's some red tape on the baloney right there is this piece property is$ 389 and99 didn't we just deal with that several months ago the property either we annexed them in the Lin Haven or either we changed CH I believe okay yeah I think they annexed in and had land juice on it yeah a ler that's going to complete the corner of convenience stor right yeah we have a gas station one two three and a and a Dollar General and I remember the discussion we were hoping they would build something that was um wait is there going to be a strip center with the we know is that there's going to be a Circle K um they haven't decided yet what is going to go on the rest of that carer it could be more multi family behind um there could be a um a little restaurant or something we we don't know all all they're designing it for is the impervious surface the maximum impervious um and then any development orders anybody that wants to put anything on there will come to you as a development order Amanda do we have something similar like this in the city already uh in terms of storm water where several um yeah where um sunnies and Innovations um are that was done in the same way that storm water Pond there was designed and put in to accommodate any future development it was designed for the maximum capacity um for a commerci for commercial so basically it won't really matter what I mean it will matter as far as whether you're all happy with it but as far as the storm water goes that would have been taken care of so I guess the question two questions I have is one do we have to accept the storm water plan the reason I asked that is this go leads to my second question is it more beneficial to the city what you're talking about where it's next to 390 and they're going to have to move it put and then then the fdot is going to have to use some other property to do that would it be more beneficial to the city for that to happen or would it be more beneficial for them to put the storm water somewhere else so whatever land that they're going to put that fdot is going to put that storm water retention Pond before could be used for a business or something else that could bring in additional Revenue to the city I don't know the answer that's just a question I I I don't know need but is these are 100-year ponds too building yes sir yeah and if they were to put put a building there then the building would get torn down by F do um and fot might have to give them more money I don't know if a building was torn down I mean but that's probably a legal question as okay I just just something I was thinking in my head I'm not saying one way or the other just I don't know speaking of devel just just in general in development orders what's the time frame from one development ORD is agreed upon to when they have to start a start building or show us one year one year M I think I think it's one year then we giv what two extensions extension yeah so we G two extensions to allow them to continue to go under that initial development two six month in my head I'm thinking of a couple development was it two six Monon extensions you Chang that they can choose a thre month a six month or a 12 month from what I think it can be up to a year then they're still grandfathered under whatever that original development order is so if we go back and change storm water to something else right then they they don't have to comply by the new changes under that development order for one year and then they do that's I think that's the way we worded it yeah y if second third they go into if they go into the option phase of their development order they'll have to eventually conform to the new yeah all right and number 14 amendment to section 50103 for the uoc accessory structures and residential land use districts any questions on this one yeah so is this basically saying that you don't don't want to allow these type of containers on the land they what they're saying is they want for you all to decide IDE whether you want to have storage containers like we're we're talking shipping containers um in people's backyards to use as sto as storage because the way that our ordinances our ulc is worded now we do not have any like restrictions other than setbacks and um can't be any more than 50% the size of the house uh we don't have any like aesthetic or anything like that and um when you look in uh at building because it will say you know can be built when you look at building it says building but it says that can be placed on so people bring sheds that are already built you know constructed offsite and they bring them on and they're allowed um and so now we have we've got a situation where people are saying well if they're allowed to bring something that looks like a shed it's just in the Aesthetics if they can put that on why can't we put a story on why can't we put a shipping container on so and we're getting those questions now so um I'm concerned that we're going to start seeing people putting shipping containers next to your next door neighbors I mean is that a look you want for linh Haven I I don't think so but that's up for you to decide so if this get if this gets approved you won't be able to put shipping containers on your property yeah and you might want to have further discussion you know or you might just be happy with what they recommended but they wanted you to like think about it I think you allowed that for a little bit right after Hurricane Michael and we saw a lot of those those those mini storage right up front in there um garages and what have you some of them stayed and we did get calls about you know this has been here now for three years and it's you know some some people use them while they're moving or something you know so someone's already using it like a storage shed do you they get grandfathered in or they're not supposed to use them so when there was uh post disaster you guys have create like different rules tempor temporary rules so that people can obviously they need to put their stuff somewhere so that's a kind of a different situation and you decide upon that when it happens um this this the code isn't for post disaster the code is for just regular regular yeah what I'm saying is since people may have already done this before this do they get grandfathered no we've told them no but we you know the society today is show me where it says that I mean it used to be enough when we would say no uh the you know the commission don't want this we because I know before prior commissions didn't city managers didn't but because we don't actually have something in writing now we've got a society now where people say show me where it says so so even before this and we're supposed to use them in store check trying to clarify the language so yeah no they weren't no okay no so and there's a difference between is I'm asking a question is there a difference between the many storage sheds and the shipping containers I don't know that's the question that's for you all to decide I guess when I see shipping containers like they're becoming almost like modular home where you can get one or two of the almost like the single wide trailer in some sense I mean I have seen some of those in the in the county areas they're using you know the lone shipping containers um and you go in you fix it up you can actually live in it you can live in it um so that might be the the new Sheed thing is uh is a shipping container versus the man cave and it can be a man cave child cave you know but we do have the the um the what we voted on about a year ago that we make it to where we can't they can't live in it anyways right uh what was that called the the Unified what was it the one way but that was like the big thing during the campaign where people were forward or against it with with the how we amended all of our codes based on what the what you could do what you couldn't couldn't do are you talking about the uh International International property maintenance code yeah that would cover that anymore well that was the international property maintenance code was actually that is for after that's on so that isn't that isn't dictating you yeah that's not for new building that's for if they work if we go out there and they have a shipping container and we approve it then we go out there we you know you know hey do you have the proper electricity Etc so it's it's for checking things that are already already built structures so not new structure and I will tell you that the mini and the big ones are are something that are very prevalent in some of the other communities if you ride around the city they are sitting in people front of their garages um and um you know we just needs something to say that is not allowed here in the city right or yes this is allowed in the city could you do like a compromise and say it's allowed in your backyard that's currently currently we only allowed accessory structures in the side or rear yard they're not nobody supposed to have an accessory structure in front of their house so if we were to say it is considered an accessory structure it would only be allowed in the back side and rear side and rear if you decide that you want to consider that as an accessory structure yeah yeah okay what if they're remodeling and you know they have to move their Furniture we don't have anything that says anything about that so again that is something that if you wanted to allow it for a certain period of time that's what that was getting then you you can direct us to do that so you know and this is something for us to discuss so we're not obligated to vote on you know expected necessarily to vote on this Tuesday we could but we don't necessarily have to so continue to review it and uh over the weekend and hear back from some of our residents continue discussion on Tuesday as as well this does fall under the you know the uoc and things that we have to take into consideration like although we're looking at the particulars again what is the vision for lin Haven moving forward with this been the OC issue you know what do we what is our vision moving forward you know what do we want residences to look like moving forward yes ma' um and and one thing I wanted to also let you know is that whatever you decide um you would like the oldc to say then that would be drawn up as an ordinance and would go back to the Planning Commission for a recommendation and then it would come to you for the two readings and the public hearing y so I would say keep that in mind as you're thinking over over the weekend like how does this fall into the Future Vision over the next 10 15 years of what we're looking at for a cuz it cuz typically this comes to us maybe like a particular residence is asking for something hey can I use this for an extended period of time in my yard Etc versus making it across the board every so just take those things into consideration um and then commissioner War had a new business that he want to add to the agenda yep um I'll just say this um um the shoe was on the other foot and you guys want to present something to be added to the agenda and I disagree with it I would let you have it on there if I had a choice so I ask that please allow me to have this on the agenda right and what is it specifically that you want censor this discussion and possible approval of censoring city manager of actions on Chief Ramy all right so we work on the the language for that but Ence that's what you want okay all right any discussion on that all right any um so we'll add that to this the agenda um any other new business we need to discuss or just Community issues that need to be discussed at this time I'm sure okay the survey I just wondered the status yes mayor had asked me to give you guys an update okay after you finished um so the survey you all looked at it and then I had to go out and actually find a company that could put this Sur that helped us to put the survey out and give us analytics so that you would be able to determine um what residents are saying and so I did find one but I also had to get three quotes and so um I haven't heard from this last uh company if I don't today then I can go with the two quotes that I have um and then we've already we looking at this one for the first year is $7,000 it's a it's a lot it's a huge job in terms of trying to get this out to every single resident they're also going to do a QR code on the back of the bill so that people can just scan it be able to take the survey um they're going to pull all the analytics together for us um they're going to help us push it out I have a hard time spending that much money to to to look at the the comp plan which is the overview anyway when we should be working on our regulations and now this will we will have this now for three years we we will be where we need to put the work in I mean I mean it's great and all but I mean put it out there in the in a in a fashion in which yeah we're going to ask everybody and then take the information that we get from the people from asking people on their water bills and stuff I think CU we have the way of doing that now without costing any money right yeah we cannot we're not the experts in pulling together all the responses and putting putting the analytics in place you want really good information to make decisions and that requires um a little bit of research already know what we got to do and so with that I guess the question is what is it that what is it that we're wanting from the survey cuz her and I did talk about this well we talked about putting it to dollars or spending money for no damn reason right so heard I did talk about talk about this where I was of the opinion can we put a a Google form or a Google doc out there everybody goes on they click you know Survey Monkey or something like that um so I did talk about how does this look and uh and that's when she did explain that to get the information that she's believing we're wanting then the Google forms and Google Docs may not pull it together in a way to give us those analytics so it's it's really you know what what are we wanting from the survey is the real question I think you know so so we can provide Direction on that before we do spend the $7,000 and and how many times you're going to do a survey in the next 3 years as well because we have once we secure this company which is a great company to have I know Florida League of cities using a lot of municipalities use them you can use this um so is this only for the one survey or we can use it multiple you can use it multiple is it really like unlimited surveys well if we spend it we need to get our money with been sending out surveys every month well we can do the commercial uh garbage and uh you know yeah there's your $7,000 save money save money yeah don't save money to spend money save money if if we're going to do this we won't reliable data and we want the citizens to be able to have confidence in whatever is returned we don't want anybody to say well that that data has been manipulated by the city to say whatever we think it needs to be said we want we want it to be reli if we're going to do this and do it right it's got to be reliable and it's got to be interpreted because there are a lot of questions on that so um we take it out of your pay I missed the boat just missed the boat on this I listened to the lecture the guy talked about you know we have a comp point plan we need a zoning map we need to work on stuff you know that it's going to help plan our city better in zones um I think that's where the work is but you know we got to go through all these steps and spend money but what if the citizens don't own Z I'll be the one of the questions no you've got a good point money is money yeah um yeah MH and I think we're we're embarking on them so I guess the question is do we want to still use the survey is a form of input from the citizens CU that's that's how the survey came about was I get I get it you know do we give everybody a say we're going to spend money to do it at the end of the day and then we're going to get to working on our our zoning and stuff like that you'll find out from this survey whether or not citizens even want Zone and a couple other things we spend it would be $8,000 watch um on the questionnaire um and the beginning of it you you have it says purpose but in actuality is that the wording from is that the vision statement do you think we need to clarify that that is the present vision statement yes because you know we might revise the vision statement you know our priorities might shift but people need to know that presently we've been operating under that vcy uh another question I had for the one that on the uh miles away the question about going so many miles away uh to get certain the purpose of that I I can see four to five miles because that would be within ly Haven do we want to know if people go out of our city and what we're lacking in um in terms of how they utilize our city and then where they go I wouldn't go 40 or 50 miles to eat at a restaurant though I'm just making silly Point definitely going less than a mile to get to a gas station well if you don't even some plac you don't have to go a block a fried chicken is there a way to do a test survey without paying the $7,000 yet to see if it's even worth spending you see know what I'm saying because then we can see how many people respond to it because if we were to put out I just feel like if we spent we want citizens to be heard but if we spent like seven grand for a survey and then we get like 75 responses well I I guess the question is how many citizens based on our demographics are going to be responding to a survey this you know this really may be more targeted towards our social media driven citizens or yeah so one of the things about about the survey is that you don't want want everyone filling it out I think that citizens don't want people who live in another right live in another city to be determining how they are in the next I guess 10 years I think we understand that but to Sam's question is from this like we represent the demographics of L Haven so how many of us would actually fill out that particular if we're sending it out to 10,000 households with only 100 respond have we really gotten our $7,000 money's worth out of doing the survey route like how people going to actually respond to the survey even with the QR code how many of our citizens are going to pick up the phone and then scan the QR code to do it I think was that what you're correct like is there a way to actually see who's going to I'm I'm conflicted because I know that a survey is extremely important but to commissioner perno's point seven Grand is a lot of money to get something for just our vision uh if we were using it now if we were to use this to go get into like the regulations and stuff that's cool but at the same time kind of our job as the commission anyways to come up with that those kind of things so I'm kind of conflicted on this because surveys survey equals good s grand for a survey I'm not I don't know if I'm sold on that okay all right so we don't have to do the survey we can strike the survey again it was just to get input from citizens so we can do our old fashion which is continue to talk to our citizens gather that Intel host the town hall however you all want to do that so the city manager just needs direct and staff on what what we want them to do so yeah I just went out got the information did put the survey together and just need for you to tell me you did your version of a survey you you figured out how much it would cost well part of the problem with doing it this way is you're going to have the same old people involved I don't mean that old people I meant the you know the 500 people that go to the website or look you know follow the city we want to give everybody an opportunity so when you mail something out in the on the water bill you know and it says we're looking or the monthly uh newsletter you know we're looking for information please or yeah and I I thought we have to involve the um the citizens that that's a requirement and then the other part of that two is um we are not just like doing the website or any of those things remember we have a program that we can we can reach every single one of our our um citizens through Tyler notified so they would have gotten a link that they would click on either through text or email and then they would fill it out and submit it so it would go to them it's just like when you get these um uh uh notifications about a road closure sometimes or an event or any of those things that's how we would reach the majority and so in research you decide how much you want to uh how many responses you want back if we say we have uh really about 8900 household although we have 10,700 accounts have about 8900 9,000 households do we want a 1% we want a 10% response of that so that that's usually the way we research go if you get a 10% response you're doing absolutely amazing 5% is normally where you will be at that okay so so I guess then if that if we're just looking for a th responses could we generate a th000 responses without spending the $7,000 correct I guess is the question if that's if that's what we're looking at I don't I don't know how you do that just send out a Tyler notify with a random survey and see how many people respond then where does um the responses go and it doesn't really matter what the responses are we just want to see how many people respond yeah I think you's just if we just do a tip because we're saying the company won allow us to do a tip from so if we send out a Tyler notify just see who how many people respond so you mean respond or look at because we can do that I mean we have data that knows that how many people receive it how many people open it Stephanie has all of that data there like if we were to do a Tyler notify that say they can't reply back why or in you could just send out you can make a survey monkey that literally says hey are you interested in filling out a survey for the udlc and send a link in the in the Tyler notify and then they'll respond with that and if we get over a th responses can we do that I'm not sure if so um we recently just created a submission for on our website for paperless billing so as you guys are discussing this we could send out a Tyler notify to a link and have a submission form on the website that says would you be willing to participate in the survey going forward yes or no and we can see how many responses that gets when they fill that out it goes to right now CSR city of linh haven.com we can create another email that it would go to or that would be fine um and we can just kind of calculate that way that would be excellent I just want to I just want to ask you um one of my concerns is need your help are people going to know the difference between zoning and land use if they decide they want zoning land use doesn't go away because it's state state required we have to have a future land use map so even if we get zoning we're going to have land use how many people out there understand the difference between zoning and future land use that's my concern anybody wants to change land use would would would know what the would would know what Zone they were in and what the land uses would be but the majority make it easier for us every time we get a land use that is actually is on the survey and it gives us a brief description of what they yeah and then what Flume is and we have it okay because I didn't on the one I saw it wasn't on there so that was my concern okay yeah um anything else P up yeah I wanted to bring this up at the last pre-commission meeting but I know we kind of ran out of time um I sent an email to the city manager about questions I had in the traffic safety policy and procedures y all get that I what I'm talking about remember I when I was gone to New York um I sent you an email I asked if you could forward it to the Commissioners yeah the the traff traffic say I think you guys said it the moment when I responded the first time I put that actually on every everybody was on that oh I did get that respon to that yeah you guys remember getting that it was a response and then when I responded to the person who asked the questions I put the traffic traffic safety all right would you mind sending that out again I just want your input on what you think on the questions I asked is it was it about Mo at home yes well that's how it spur but yeah but it was attached to that response okay can you refresh my memory I asked question I remember Mo Island's um I asked questions about the procedure about installing speed bumps right yeah and I guess the yeah let's see try see oh is that the one they're talking about different kinds of speed bumps that that's exactly speed humps that the process to get approved and things like that okay you all did talk about it in this meeting here about the difference in the procedure yeah I told you about the fact that you we don't just go put up stop signs that is something that you all have to do but stop signs according to our guidelin should not be used as traffic coming um there's a difference between speed bumps and speeds is there still an issue I just want to get a second opinion before I say anything on it what you thought that's all well what I I can tell what I thought and I did follow with city manager on this is putting Clarity in the um in the traffic guidelines or the traffic committee proposal you know in that document you know if this the procedures that you all are following for Speed humps versus speed bumps right if you following these procedures for Speed bumps please update the you know that documentation so that it'll be reflected in that so that it won't be ambiguous as to can you do it can you not do it what the procedure for that so I did follow with that with her on that after the M Highlands meeting to give her that Clarity so that was you know my opinion not so much is it right or wrong as much as this needs to be in documentation so that we know their procedure so that's that was my opinion on it now whether or not we should have installed speed humps or speed bumps I didn't get into that debate with her about it as much as that's not what I'm getting at you know I'm getting at the process so yeah so I so I was I did express my concerns about the process that is just that is clear you know because speed humps wasn't addressed you know in the uh in that document so can we you know can we add that to it so I did follow up with her if you read the introduction it actually does well I'm saying the actual procedures MH right right well right more specific procedures we're going to get the email again I I'll forward it to you again I'll have with that cuz I know the Pacific's procedures outlined when are we going to talk about this again once we have next pre commmission meeting next pre I mean it's not critical it's not like it's oh my God we got to do this now okay yeah all right well uh any other matters need to be discussed before we go the jour