--------- Everyone, thanks for joining us today. We've got some of our dieh hard regulars here. Glad to see y'all. And a couple of uh new semi-regular faces as well. Welcome. Glad to have you with us this afternoon. Uh we're going to be kicking off a uh a workshop here and going
through uh rules of decorum. We have a governing procedure that we very obviously had a clear disconnect with procedurally and uh it was in great need of a professional revamping anyway. So,
we're going to be discussing that this afternoon. There'll be plenty of time for you ladies and gentlemen to uh provide inputs as well if you would like. We're definitely open to ideas and suggestions. And with that, we'll uh we'll go ahead and get this party started. So,
um, commissioners, who wants to start off speaking about this? Uh, our city manager, would you like to to kick us off? >> No, sir. >> I know. >> So, maybe I'll start. >> I know how to behave >> since, uh, I end up, uh, writing the
vast majority of this. Um, I, uh, did quite a bit of research on this and, um, I got some my, um, I can't take credit for all of these. There's a few things in here that I got feedback uh from other people and residents that
I incorporate in here that I never thought about. Um I did look at our charter and our codes and there's there's things in here that are similar or the same from those. I tried to combine them all into this one document
and tried to make sure that they didn't conflict with each other too much. Uh, one thing I did, um, I don't know if you guys noticed in here, I took out the sign-in sheet and, uh, I think we when we originally discussed
having the sign-in sheet was all with good intentions and the intention was if you signed in for just general public commentary. Um, and if you know when you got to that part, you called all the names like we
you get the sheet and if you didn't sign in, then you didn't get to speak. And not only that, you had the address of the person if you wanted to contact them because some people don't feel comfortable coming up giving out their name and address and things like that.
But I think some people get confused with the sign-in sheet thinking it's for like agenda item stuff and not really sure what the purpose of it is. And so I don't think it really fulfilled the purpose of what we originally intended for it to do. And I just say get rid of
it and then cuz originally we weren't supposed to call on people. It kind of started even before you were mayor. That was just that culture just happening. And to me, just call I say do away with the sign-in sheet and just call on people when you get the general public commentary.
So, um, one couple thing highlights. Um, one I changed, um, where there's a legal review process. If uh for some reason someone is disruptive
and they need to uh sit down or um they are uh told to leave the meeting and if the sergeant-at-arms is told to um escort the person out then um and then sergeant-at-arms is not fully
comfortable with it because he's not sure if it's legal or not. um they can ask for a legal review and any of us on the commission can ask for a legal review and then that's when the city attorney would pipe in and they can give
their uh conclusion right then and there or if they can't and they need like a little bit of time to kind of research it and figure it out then we can we can go into recess they figure it out and then come back. I don't think it'll ever
get used, but it's there just in case. >> I think it's a good idea. I agree with you. Bernie Thompson actually came up with that. As far as I know, he was the original mastermind behind that. So, we could actually call it the Thompson amendment or the Thompson maneuver or
whatever you wanted to call it, but um it's a good thing for qualified immunity of the police officer. Um hopefully we don't ever have a situation like that again where we where that's a question. Um but if it is and the police officer
asks for uh basically a verification, we can certainly do that. And I think it's well thought out. It actually is kind of a cooling saucer if you will because in the moment as uh we saw as I found out firsthand um tempers can flare
and um you can get crossways with somebody that you work with and think highly of on a regular basis and you know you can get crossways with each other pretty quick. So having that built-in mechanism and I think if a point of order is internalized properly
that will also be very helpful and what exactly that means when you call a point of order >> and who takes charge of the floor and kind of the clear sequence of events I think that will help too. But beyond that, to help with the cooling of temper, if you will, or in the heat of the moment, I think this is a very good
idea. And I thank you and Bernie Thompson for coming up with this and kind of working it to fruition. I really liked your proposal. Uh I took your proposal and I literally changed the format a little bit just to make it easier to read, but then the very few
happy to glad kind of word smithing that I did was very small and negligible. It was in the red text with yellow highlights. Uh I did add a section on point of order and I also clarified the mayor pro Tim's uh role in this. So if
I'm chairing a meeting as the mayor and a point of order is called against me as the mayor, I can't be a referee and a attorney if you will, defense attorney, a prosecution attorney, a participant, right? I can't be a judge and a
participant. So in that case I would literally have to stop hand over the gavl to the proim and let him or her uh serve for the purposes of the determination uh to make that call. Likewise, if the pro tim is gone uh and
that situation arises, I think it's very appropriate for the most senior ranking or longest serving commissioner on the commission at that time to basically step in and be the interim prom and serve that role. I think that would actually help clarify that otherwise.
But other than those kind of few procedural points of order, Jamie, you did a really really good job on this. I think it's very clear-cut um and very straightforward, frankly. So, good job. And I hope y'all liked my format changes to kind of make it easier
to read. It was more spacing and you know that kind of thing, word format versus actual change of word content. >> Well, one of the things that you changed is something that I was going to bring up anyways is let me take a step back. I also agree that I'm very [clears throat]
happy with this document. Great job. Uh, the one thing that the one minor change you made that I was going to suggest until I realized that you had already suggested it was I know in Robert's rules of order they use the term uh
proceeding officer. Uh, I would prefer to stick with just using the word chair because just simply because although it's technically the right term whenever we write a policy,
it's my opinion that a policy should be that it's not only there to enforce something but also be a rule book that everyone can read, whether that's us or the citizens. And if we typically refer to the mayor commissioner as the chair everywhere
else, then it makes more sense to leave it as the chair here so that there's no confusion. Because for me, like when I first read it, I was like proceeding officer. Okay, I need to look up and make sure what that is. If I have to do that right off the bat, then that means other people have to do it, too.
>> So, I'd prefer to stick with the chair. But, I mean, that's such a minor thing. Another thing I wanted since I'm talking now, I guess honestly one of my my two favorite things in this document that really stuck out to me was section [clears throat] three, which is the material disruption. That was one of the
things that was kind of the issue in the past is that it was left up to the chair or whatever, but what was left up to the chair was very much a gray area and the material disruption kind of puts exact definitions. And in my opinion, most of
these, if not all of them, are legitimate reasons why you'd stop any meeting because it's not uh it's not limiting speech. It's more so like once your 3 minutes are over, then you're being disorderly type of deal, >> which you'd want to get. I mean, they
had their chance to speak. The only thing that the one in the material disruption that uh maybe we could clarify just a little bit more because mo 90% of these are very straightforward on what it means. The letter E when it
says refusing lawful procedural directions necessary for orderly conduct of the meeting that is a little uh >> vague. >> Vague. Yeah. So, if we could figure out
what a little bit more specifically, like for example, physically obstructing access, pretty straightforward. Like, if someone's not letting someone leave the meeting or not letting people get in the meeting, I think that's an okay reason for the sergeant- of- arms to be like,
"Hey, you got to let people get in in out of the building." You know, um that's pretty um or after their time is ran out and they're refusing to walk away. that's not limiting speech that they got their three minutes just like everybody else. Um, but I don't really
letter E doesn't really stick out to me as something that's telling me exactly what we're trying to say there. And then finally, the very last section is huge for me. I think that was a very good idea, which is within [clears throat] 45 days following each regular municipal
election. Maybe we want to say we could even expound upon that and say uh following each regularly municipal election or the selection of a new board member. Uh that way for example we've
had board members appointed in the past uh recently actually and that way it kind of puts everyone on the same like refresher. You know, Mayor Lowry came in at not a normal municipal election, so we didn't he came in at a different
cycle than what we're used to. So, he may have been at a disadvantage with knowing what the rules of procedures were, right? So, >> um and and that can be done still, I think, even with the way it's worded. I worded it where this is like the
minimum. And so, um, your example with the mayor Lowry coming in kind of out of cycle, we could still sit there and determine, okay, let's go over these, you know, if we wanted to, but I thought this was like the minimum. And if we want to go further than that, then we
can go further than that. >> Okay. Yeah. But again, love it, the 45 periodic review. Quick, sir, >> I wanted to kind of I'm glad you brought up about the disruption thing because I did a lot of research on that and um
and I've watched a lot of videos of this. I don't even want to give the guy credit. So, I'll just say this. This is somewhere out of state where this guy likes to know go into meetings and try to bend that line as much as he can just to kind of disrupt the meeting um or
kind of agitate. And so it's like where where is that line at? And so I'll give you an example. Let's say someone comes up here and they start yelling and cursing at you and they say you're a liar and um
they start making false accusations. Is that disruption? Nope, it's not. But [clears throat] if they come up here, now one of the things I did put in here is when they talk about something, it has to be something about city business. They can't just come up here and talk about
releasing of the UFO files from the federal government's doing or something that that doesn't pertain to the city. Um, but let's say, and this is one of the ones where this guy kind of takes kind of tries to get close to the line as possible, he'll come up here and he'll play an instrument and it's like,
is that disruption? I would I would interpret that as a disruption, but maybe you guys would interpret it differently. So to me, they can come up here and pretty much say almost anything that they want, unless it's something that they're threatened to do you physical harm or kill you or something
crazy like that. So, [clears throat] one of the reasons I really like the material disruptions is because actually Bernie Thompson made an excellent point last meeting when he said the rules of decorum is really more about the people
not speaking rather than the person speaking, which was actually an excellent point, which is why I like that the material disruption. uh for example, after that person's three minutes is up, they're no longer speaking. So, they're back in the audience. They should be. And so, this
is really touching on really the people that are not speaking. Um that's really what the rules of decorum are for. I would say I maybe we could leave that in there about maybe encourage it to be about city business. I don't ever.
Obviously, it's annoying if someone was to come up here and play a ukulele for 3 minutes when we need we got city business, but if it's public commentary for 3 minutes, it's my opinion. Just let them have their 3 minutes. It It's annoying. Everybody else is probably
annoyed, too, but I mean, just let them have their three minutes. >> So, I'll uh circle back. We're talking about article I guess that's 11 uh decorum section three the material disruption
um the section three letter or subsection E is what you're talking about refuse refusing lawful procedure directions necessary for the orderly conduct of the meeting. What I am and this is just how I interpreted that. I didn't write that. I I didn't tweak
that. That was Jaime's draft. Um, what I see that being is, and if I had to do um, the situation with Mr. Scray over again, and I've told him this, I think I publicly said that at the next meeting, I would have let coolerheads prevail. I would have said, "You know what? Let's stop the tape."
Both of us, we were both flared at that point. Go have a seat. We're going to let you rerun your three minutes. Let's chill out for a few minutes. Let's let other people speak and then we'll come back and we'll roll the tape again. Right? You get your full three minutes again. Um, in hindsight being 2020, that
would have been by far the better way to handle that situation. I see that letter E being something along that where the chair's going, you know what, take an E. Let's let's take a breather on this. Let's take 10. Let's let other people speak and then we'll circle back. Right? And that person being absolutely not.
I'm here at the podium. I've got my three minutes. By golly, I'm going to have them. Right? That's what I see that kind of headbutting being for subsection B. [clears throat] Was there something else you saw into that? >> Well, the two points I' I'd make is one, just whoever is speaking, let them have
their three minutes. No matter, unless it's like, like I said, something where they're physically threatening you or something like that, just let them talk for their three minutes with no disruption. Just let them talk. Um, as far as letter E, refusing lawful
procedure directions, I think what I was tying that with is like some of the processes I put in there. Like there's the warning and removal process. And and that's kind of where I was t I think where I was leading with that. That's kind of like a procedural thing where it's like, okay, I'm telling you to do this. You're not doing it. No, I'm not
telling you to do this now. Okay, no, you need to leave. >> So when a person's in there three minutes, absolutely agree with you and I'll never make that mistake again. But when let's say you have a point of order. So that's the equivalent of a flag on a
play to use a football analogy, right? When the refs throw a flag, everybody takes a knee. You got to stop until that gets sorted out. >> It's that procedural [snorts] stop, that pause button. That's where I see where the chair would go, you know what? You know, hair standing up on the back of
both of our necks. Let's take a minute. Especially, you know, let's take a breather. That's where I see that letter E coming in. Not necessarily someone coming up and just having their uninterrupted three minutes. >> So that one section where you kind of expan expounded on that. [clears throat]
>> There's two things on that one. Um you said I think if I remember right, I think you had something in there about if a speaker called point of order. >> Speaker can't call point of order. That can only come from us >> if we say so. >> Well, I I don't think
>> I don't think that's a good idea. It depends on how we define participant. And I'm I'm not hard over either way, Jamie. But in the three minutes that someone comes up and the chair recognizes them to speak, >> for those three minutes, they are a participant in our civic process, right?
>> And if the chair or another commissioner or someone else, an audience member is trying to interrupt, you know, whatever, and they hey, point of order, chair, handle this or stop or whatever. Right. >> Right. we should recognize them for that.
>> I mean, they they can say it, but really any any parliamentary procedures you read, we're the only ones as elected officials that can call point of order. But but but they can say it, you know, they can point it out and say, "Hey, commissioners, you need to call point of order or something like that."
>> And see, that's that's where things went off the tracks last time because I knew what that meant and I acted accordingly. And he had a very different thought on what that meant. and I've owned it. That was my bad. I should have responded differently in that. But what I want to make sure doesn't happen in the future
is if someone else, another speaker or a participant on this dis calls a point of order, could be the parliamentarian attorney, uh it could be the sergeant-at-arms could call a point of order if he or she he or she so chose to, right? >> We stop and we recognize, you know, it's
it's honestly a flag on a play to use the football analogy. Yeah, that's that's the way they do it in Congress, too, is whenever they actually any anything that uses parliamentary procedures, that's how they do it is if they call point of order, everything stops. They have to address the point of order first before they move on.
>> Now, the key difference there, and I'm a huge political science junkie, have been since I was a teenager. You're you're dead on. Correct. The only difference is if you go in the Senate or you go in the House of Representatives, >> there only people speaking in there are members of that body or a special guest,
right? A senator can go to the house, right? Or yeah, something like that. Or >> well, they do have expert witnesses that will come and testify, but that's normally not on the House and Senate floor. Those are in committees, >> you know, in the office buildings and stuff adjacent to the floor. Right. >> Right.
>> The actual dis if you will in Congress where people go and speak. That's where C-SPAN covers 247. That's literally just members. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, our special guest. So what I did was I took that whole
section and I put it under I think it was parliamentary procedures section 4 and uh I put section four points of order. Any commissioner may raise a point of order concerning the applica application of these rules parliamentary
procedures or the orderly conduct of the meeting. Upon the raising of a point of order, consideration of the pending matter shall be temporarily suspended until the presiding officer rules upon the point of order. after receiving such advice from the city attorney as may be appropriate.
>> And sometimes I see the parliamentarian being the lawyer, you know, hey, let's take a breather. I need to go research this. Let's take 10. And sometimes it may be just the the the commission. We huddle. We're like, "All right, let's take five." We go huddle and we're like,
"Okay, what are we doing?" Or [clears throat] we publicly, we don't even pause. We, "Okay, what do y'all think?" Everybody gives their input and we press. >> Yeah. >> My opinion on the point of order is I kind of agree that if there's a person
is at the podium, they're a participant. So, they should be able to call point of order. However, I would say that a random audience member should not because they're not actively participating. Um, that's kind of my my opinion on it. Uh just like you said, if
they call point of order, just pause the clock as the chair. If if it's just a general point of order, you could still make the call unless the point of order is on you. In that case, >> the vice chair >> the vice chair would and I would say
probably I mean I've only seen someone a speaker say it maybe twice in the past three years. >> So unless it's something crazy [clears throat] contentious, I don't see it happening anyways. >> Yeah. The only person in the audience I can see doing a point of order is potentially the sergeant-at-arms.
>> Yeah. >> You know, he he or she is an actual participant in our body. >> I would agree. >> Yeah, I would I would say that they're an active participant the entire time because they got to keep people safe. >> Oh, sorry. One thing while I'm thinking
about it, let's don't mean to sidetrack too much, but I just came to my mind. One of the things that stuck out to me in this that it is a good idea, but maybe we expound upon it a little bit is the if someone wants to bring um an item
like a flash drive or whatever uh or material, it says in this document, give a 7-day heads up. I would say a 7-day heads up for an item that's not on the agenda to give staff plenty of time. But
if it's for an item that's on the agenda, it should probably be 4 days because the agenda does not go out to the public until Thursday with a meeting on Tuesday. How are they going to get material for an item on the agenda 7
days ahead of time if they don't even know what's on the agenda? You know what I'm saying? So like let's use for an example that development order for um >> you said four weeks. You meant four days. >> Sorry. Yes. 4 days. Thank you. Uh
let's use the remember when Zach debt had like that >> that thing. So that was on a development order. He wouldn't have known that that was there unless someone had called him and gave him a heads up because it
wasn't on the I mean the agenda came out 4 days early. So he wouldn't have I mean 4 days prior to the meeting. So he wouldn't have been able to meet that 7-day deadline to to give that presentation. >> What do you think is a reasonable amount of time that it would need
>> if we could get it that Monday before? That way they could if it's a thumb drive, especially air gap is probably not the correct term, but they would have it isolated on a separate um computer that they check the thumb drive to ensure it's good. >> Oh, like a day prior. >> If we could get it that Monday morning,
that'd be great. But we could say that. I'm good with that. >> What is that? 24 or 36 hours ahead of time by noon. >> I'll word it the same way. Just put 24 hours. So,
um, did you have something else or or was that it? >> I just wanted to one more time. What's the consensus on changing proceeding officer to chair? >> I think it standardizes
truth in advertising and >> I'm fine with it. >> It's just a minor thing, >> but >> yeah, >> I get what you're trying to do because you're you're pulling from Robert's Rules of Order, which is our main document and us up here knows exactly what you're talking about, but I just
kind of want I'm thinking of like >> the the average person might not read Robert's rules of order, you know? >> Yeah. It doesn't change any Well, I mean, it doesn't change the definition or procedures or anything. So, yeah, I think that's fair. >> Um, go ahead,
>> Miss Judy. What are you thinking? >> Oh, what am I thinking? >> Yes, ma'am. >> There was a joke that I heard. >> Um, I really be honest. I um
I think we have a lot of discussion adults. Okay. I think the situation that you all are referring to, I think that was a moment of lost control, which we all have that point. When we get there, we get there
and we're gone. Um, sometimes it's good sometimes it's good to um take a little break, but that that's the only time other than Jamie and the old mayor. Other than
those two, I mean, >> it wasn't just me. There were other instances. >> Well, yeah, >> I don't want to go down that road. >> Yeah, I know. I I don't want to go down the road either. I mean, things happen. Um, I mean, if what what are we doing? Are
we voting that we want to go by this or what are >> Oh, well, I make a motion we accept it and be >> We're not voting on >> Oh, >> we're just discussing. So, >> Oh, >> so you got this in the email, right? >> Yes. >> And you went over it, right? >> Yes.
>> Did you have any inputs on what you Okay. >> No. Well, >> thank you for that, ma'am. Um Pat, what are your thinking, sir? >> You got any thoughts or any suggest? >> No, no thoughts. I'm just going to go with whatever we get cuz my time my days
are numbered. >> Well, you're still an important part of this team. Days numbered or not? >> Yep. So, looks like I said the three are the ones doing most of the talking and analysis, but um I don't have any other
real discussions on this. Do you either of y'all? >> I guess there's more of like a way forward from here. We just going to um >> Yes, sir. Thank you. You know, I do I I have to say that the
whole atmosphere, I think, is a thousand times better than it used to be. A thousand times better. uh we used to come to meetings and I would hold my breath on oh my god what's this person gonna say next or whatever you know and
I'm totally relaxed obviously now but uh I think that uh some of the most memorable times I have to say where the mayor was concerned was when Margot was mayor and
if somebody got up and they they were talking about something that meant a lot to them. She would let she never looked at the clock, you know? I mean, she'd let them talk and then she would always say, always, she'd say, "Sir, would you
come up here and give the city manager your name and address and I will call you, phone number, I will call you, and we'll get together." And she did. She wasn't just saying it. She really did it. So, I think um I I just I don't know. To me, it
doesn't seem like rocket science. Just know how to treat people. >> You know, >> it is. You're spot on, Miss Judy. Uh this is just a matter of we did have a resolution in place. Uh and but it needed to be cleaned up and clarified.
There actually it was put in in 24 and there had actually been a couple of uh state level uh legal decisions that were subsequently made um that actually changed the contours of what we had put in previously a little bit. Um, so this
is just literally trying to clean up what we had a little administrative housekeeping, make it clear, and literally I've been with y'all five months now, and I'm really proud to be on this team. And aside from about 30 seconds on one night, I feel like I have
done y'all proud every which way but loose. Uh, but in those 30 seconds, I gave a hell of a sound bite and my temper flared. and I misunderstood the process one way and we had a resident that felt and thought point of order meant something different and we got
sideways and I showed my rear end and I it was a very learning experience for me and it's not something that I ever plan to repeat and I own it but beyond that there was a legit misunderstanding
disconnect that we can fix and we can make this very very clear for the rest of uh our time on this commission together so that anybody looking at this can see exactly what we're our rules are um and what a material disruption is um
and what it's not. And then there's there's actually points there's kind of a safeguard if you will. Bernie Thompson came up with it. I'll give them credit all day long, which hey, if the police officer is told to eject someone if they're not comfortable with that and they want to ask for clarification or
trust but verify, right? Are you sure you want to do this, Mr. Chair, Mrs. Chair, or Madame Chair, or commission, we can discuss and we have a set of rules and we have a set uh we have a a procedure that clearly defines what is a
disruption and what it's not. to Jaime's point is someone coming up here and singing ukulele for three minutes. Is that a disruption? Is them screaming you're a liar and a cheat and a horrible person. Is that necessarily a disruption? Now, if they say I want to kill you or I'm going to burn your house
down, you know, there that's a whole different that trips, you know, a threshold, but just you're a dirt bag, you're a puppy killer, you're, you know, whatever. That's that's where you you stay in free speech, right? So,
we got to have the kind of the rules of engagement, the swim lanes here. >> Yeah. >> So that we're all on the same page. >> But we are so much better than we were, I guess, is the point I'm trying to make. >> Yes, ma'am. I don't worry about uh
coming to a meeting and you know having people just crazy behavior out in the audience. But you know one of the best meetings we ever had and you know how I feel about the Saturday openhouse thing or what what did you call that? >> Town hall. >> Townhouse.
>> Town hall meeting. they are. That's such a relaxing, productive meeting. And I realize you got to do all this humbo jumbo, you know, to make everything legal and everything, but when people are comfortable and they
want to talk, they come. They come because they want to talk. >> Yeah. >> And uh I think our attendance has improved. But I, you know, and I guess this is all for the good, but I don't think anybody
or not anybody, but I don't think the majority of the folks are going to uh sit down and read this document to make sure that >> Well, I don't think it's I don't want to say it's not for them. I think it's more for us to kind of >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
this I I would encourage you to look this rather than rules of what they can't do which is what's really saying is no this they have all these freedoms this is what we can't do really the this is like these are the very rare few times that you can actually do something
other than that let them have free speech you know like this is protecting their I like to look at it as this is putting guard rails on us and future commissions to not overstep their bounds not limit the audience of what they can
and can't do. You get what I'm saying? Cuz like if you look at the material disruptions, everything on there is stuff that people would probably get in trouble for anyways, you know, [clears throat] in any other situation, like not letting someone come in a building that regardless of a meeting or
not, that's not okay, you know. Um, this is basically just saying, hey, let the people talk. The only time that you can make the only time that anything will happen is after three minutes is over or they're you know making someone
you know unsafe basically. So I like to look at it more as it's a document going forward showing it really can is something the citizens can hold up and say point of order. This right here says I can talk in this situation cuz these
are the only times that you're allowed to make me stop talking and this isn't one of them. You get what I'm saying? So that's kind of the way I like to look at it because the reason I like this document so much is it's very clear like what you can and can't do in terms of
us. and uh the material disruptions to me are all things that regardless of it's a meeting or not is unacceptable behavior period. So anyways, Miss Judy, one uh one thing I want to follow up on
real quick and and you're dead on. The tone has changed a lot. We uh I'm very very proud to be on this team with you four and we've got a new police chief about to get another new police chief sadly because of medical condition
issues. Um new city manager. We've got a new team and I think we are really working well as a team. Everybody here's loves this city and wants to be right by this city. We are far less dramafilled
than the days of old. Um, now that's a really good thing for a couple of reasons and don't want to get off on a rabbit trail, but tough times are ahead. As we all know, budgetarywise and hard decisions well beyond Linhaven. This is a whole state thing.
There's going to be a lot of challenges. It is so important that we have this team and that we work together. We trust each other. We collaborate. You can agree and you can disagree and not have
to be disagreeable. And just because we may not see eye to eye on a particular issue doesn't mean you're not my friend or we're not good Linhabian citizens and all of that, right? Two people can disagree, but we're still a good team. >> So, back to what you talked um
Commissioner Peeles talked earlier about um what you what you can talk about at the lectern. Um, this is how I worded it and I want to remind everyone this is a limited public forum. People think they can come up here and say anything they
want. That's not necessarily true. As a limited public forum, you can limit it to just city business. Unlike if you're out here on the sidewalk, that's your most protected freedom right there. You can say anything you want as long as you're not breaking any laws. Right? So
I put comments should relate to matters within the jurisdiction, authority, operations, services, policy, programs, projects, or concerns of the city of Linhaven. Comments that primarily concern private disputes between individuals, personal grievances unrelated to city business, or matters
outside municipal authority may be ruled out of order. So again, if somebody wanted to come up here and talk about UFO files, it's like it's not city business. On paper, I get what you're saying and you're right about the limited form.
I've had that conversation with probably 15 different people over the past uh 3 years or so. But it's of my opinion just because it is a limited form. I mean, just just let them talk. just give this three minutes, you know, like what we
save a few three minutes for the rest of our life. What are we going to do with that extra time? I'm probably going to be taking a nap anyways. So, I don't know. Give the people if they want if they want to serenade me with a ukulele or tell me a conspiracy theory about how there's batteries inside of the
pyramids. >> Okay. >> You know, >> I guess I look at a little differently. I'm I look at it as we're here to conduct business and needs to be about city business. That's the way I view it. Um the other point I was going to make is
uh the um when people come up, you know how a lot of municipalities they say your name and your address. I just put state their name and municipality. And I think you were looking at having
the address too, but I I know people don't feel comfortable with that. Or not I shouldn't say there's some people don't feel comfortable with that and I can understand why. >> Yeah. So I kind of see that's a good point. I'm glad you brought that up. I kind of see a middle ground there. Uh
because I understand someone not wanting to say their full address, but maybe they say their street. You know how like Mr. Hines always comes up here, says his name, it says his street. >> Mhm. >> Cuz that's important to me because
there's a lot of people that think they live in Linhaven because their mailing address says Linhaven, but they don't live in Linhaven, >> right? >> You know what I mean? And so like we should obviously treat everyone with respect, but I'm going to listen if it's a something that has to do with tax
dollars and it's a tax dollar issue. >> I'm more concerned with someone that's actually paying those tax dollars, you know. So if someone was to say, you know, uh what's a random, I don't know, let's just say I live at uh San Peeles's
Linhaven and then I say that street is somewhere in unincorporated Bay County. Of course, I'm gonna say, "Okay, that's that's a good thing to know." But then I can tell them afterwards, "Hey, I appreciate you coming. You probably need to get with Daniel Raffield." >> You know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah.
[clears throat] >> Good deal. >> Um I was going to ask the city attorney a couple questions. All right. >> Yeah. >> Um one, um Mr. Jackson, since I uh took some of these from other codes and um ordinances
and resolutions and that if this gets accepted, what happens to those other ones? Do they just fall off the books or so [clears throat] as you are aware, we have existing rules in place. Uh the charter has a rule for um regarding
public uh interaction in a meeting and also uh the city code has rules on that. And so the resolution that adopted that per that section of the city code has a separate policy and my recommendation would be that we work off of that
policy. If we were to adopt this thing in its whole to replace it then it would just replace the policy. Okay. >> Yeah. like like for instance in section there's like sections 2- I think it's like 42 through 47 as some of the stuff
in there that I took from that. >> Right. Yeah. There's a lot of overlap between the the draft document and the existing city policies and I don't know if you had a chance to look at the um the existing city policy on this. It's it's actually not bad. I mean it's not
bad. So but but the the method of doing it would be uh we could adopt the entire policy as the new policy for the city commission and then if there's conflicts the charter would prevail and then that would be it pretty much. I mean
>> well I'm not talking just a charter but like the codes like those sections in the code that that talk about some of these things in here. >> The code would would preempt the policy. So if there's sections of the code that are different than what is in the policy, the code would trump would trump
that. >> So if there's any conflict, then we're going to need to fix that, too. Okay. >> So do I hear you saying, uh, Rob, that we would need to codify this and a formal ordinance. >> It's up to the commission and how you
want to handle it. Right now there is a process in place where the code refers to a public participation policy that's adopted by the commission which was adopted by the commission and that policy is out there. And so if you all
were to adopt this as the policy if there are conflicts between this and the code or the charter it would go in the order of the charter top then the code and then the policy. So if there's differences between the policy and the code, the code would trump. There's difference between the code and the
charter. The charter would trump. I think but you could you could adopt this by resolution. >> Yeah. And I think that's probably best because that goes to the part where when there's election and they want to go over it after 45 days. You don't want to have to go codify it again, you know. Um
did you have a chance to to read it? >> I I I did. Yes. >> What did you think of it? I mean, so the overall the and just so the board knows the board has a lot of flexibility with this kind of policy. Y'all can do pretty much whatever you want for the most
part. The restrictions are, you know, you have really two sections you're dealing with. One is you're dealing with the rules and how you deal with each other. And that's just the body, the five of you all. Uh, and that's governed by the charter, which is basically says, as you said in here, that you know,
Robert's rules is a guide. um and directory, but it's not it's not going to invalidate any action that basically uh the majority of the commission is going to trump over over whatever Robert's rules might happen to say. And so that is along the lines of you all
are a small collegial body. You're not this is in Congress where you have 435 different viewpoints that you're trying to to um manage. So So that's the one restriction from the charter side. The other restriction is is your
interactions with the public. And so that's you have really have if you think about it from two sides. You think about from the outside outside the body and then inside the body. Your actions with the public are not governed by it's governed by the commission policy and then really the constitution is all
that's um that rules that. And so as you said this is a limited public form by case law um from the 11th circuit and in the in the Supreme Court. And so you can have uh restrictions on public participation as long as they're
viewpoint neutral and enforced um enforced not arbitrarily basically uniformly. And so as long as those two restrictions are in place, you can pretty much put whatever rules you want in in action. And so that's
[clears throat] the overall o overall assessment. Uh and then as far as the policy because you all have flexibility. I mean you have you can do whatever you want. My my suggestion would be that whatever was the intent to substitute this for the for the entire policy. Was that the
intent of the the document? That's >> okay. I mean that's that's that's fine. We just need to do that by resolution. That would be all. Okay. >> And then there are some spots that need to be cleaned up. perhaps some of these conflicts with the code or or other like there's one section there about special
meetings are restricted to right the subject and that you know there's some processes about how meetings are conducted about how the what the meetings are for perhaps we should clean up some of that >> and um I think I identified all those I got them in my notes so I can get with
you >> right and then the the the point of order discussion that the mayor brought up I mean Robert's rules is just applies to the body And so a point of order wouldn't necessarily apply to somebody that's participating. However, if you all want to make that that they can
raise a point of order, that's certainly something that's allowable because you have a lot of flexibility. The you know, it's important to um uh after doing this quite some a bunch of years, I have kind of Rob's rules that I've given to the chamber and
places like that. And the first two rules are one, have good policies. And so you want to make sure the policy is good policy, which is this looks pretty good. Two is follow the policies. And so the most important part of of the policies is that they're followed. That's that's basically it. And so if
they get too complex, what what I've seen in other aspects, not necessarily in the public realm, but when you add a lot of different rules and layers rules, they look great on paper, but if they're not actually followed, then what happens is they it becomes a problem because
they're not enforced uniformly. Uh and so if you do get into a a disagreement with somebody, say at the public or somewhere else, that all of a sudden the rules aren't necessarily what things are happening. And so whatever y'all adopt um I would make sure that we follow it
basically. >> Okay. >> And an example would be um I mean it's it's a simple example but the name like our current policy says speakers will come up and give their name and address and if their address is not they don't want to give their address because it's confidential or something they should
provide the name of the city or uh county that they live in. So at least you all know it's a citizen. Um I I don't know if we've been doing that or not. Um and so I would if we if we put it in the policy, we should do it. >> Yeah, that's why I wanted to define it. >> Yeah. And there's also, you know, the
three limit rule is that's at the chair's discretion. That's typically just for the public participation part. You the the chair or the commission can allow extra time for particular issues if they want to, right? Um and so there's a lot of that in there but but um overall I mean the process would be
to adopt this as a whole to replace the existing policy. >> Okay. >> And can I add something here? I feel that uh giving your address today is not a wise thing.
It's not a wise thing at all. um with AI and I don't even know what I'm talking about now, but with people getting your information and things of that nature, I I wouldn't want to stand up here and tell everybody where I live. You know, how do I know there's not a crackpot out
here that would meet me in my driveway or or whatever? I just don't think what difference does it make what my address is, >> right? But the only there's no legal rule or requirement to do that. The only reason why cities have traditionally done that is because they want to know
if somebody is a citizen of the city or not. Basically, that's that's basically what it comes down to. >> And does that make what they have to say any less important? >> That that's up to you all. That's that's up to the commission. I wouldn't I wouldn't say it makes it less important, but I would want them to know if they're
a Linhaven resident or maybe they live out in Southport or something like that just to kind of know general idea where they >> like if they're bringing a certain issue. It's like, okay, you live out in Southport that has nothing to do with Linhaven. So, I'm kind of confused, you know?
>> Yeah. >> I I just that way I kind of got an idea where they're coming from. >> That's all. >> Yeah. I I think it goes back kind of what I was saying earlier. Like for example, there's probably a lot of people that live in Derby Woods or
College Point. They think they live in Linhaven. They don't. So like if they come up and bring an issue to us, >> of course, we want to hear what they have to say, but like if it's a pothole or something, >> we can't fix it. But by because they
told us the road that they live on, we could say, "Appreciate you bringing that to us. here's Daniel Raffield's information. He can help you. >> So, >> you know, >> I'll give you an example, and I'm not I'm not proposing this. I'm just saying
what I've seen in other municipalities. I've seen some municipalities that if you come here to speak, and if you're a resident of that municipality, you can speak for 3 minutes. And if you're not a resident, but you're a utility customer, you can only speak on utility stuff for
three three minutes. And if you're not, then there's some that won't even allow you to speak at all if you're not even resident. So again, I'm not pushing that. I'm just saying there's >> Well, that's just like on Facebook this week, and I believe everything I read on
Facebook. Um, but I read that we were going to annex in the neighborhood you just spoke of. >> No, that's not true. >> Well, of course it's not. I know it's not true, but they they were actually
talking that we were Lyn Haven wanted to annex in Yeah. >> that whole subdivision and I had all I could do just keep a mash shut and say, "Where in the heck did you hear that at?" >> But, uh, it's very interesting. Very interesting.
Yeah. I don't know how I don't know how I don't necessarily agree with what you're saying as far as people can have great input no matter where they live. Yeah, >> if I can just interrupt, there was I mean for a time some cities in the state
didn't allow people that weren't citizens to speak and that has been eliminated that if if they're a person >> they can speak. Simple as that. >> Now legally you can do it but I'm not again I'm not not pushing for that at all. But um another thing I wanted to
point out, I don't know if you guys noticed, I think it was always believe that if you're the mayor or the the person that's the chair of the meeting, if you wanted to make a motion that you had to relieve the gavl to somebody else
and I and it was always believed, I think for quite a while that's the that's the case until we were corrected on that. I added in here and this is how I believe this is my opinion that if you're if you're the chair then you have to give the gavvel up if you want to
give a motion and the reason I believe that if you're running the meeting it kind of gives the appearance that you're kind of trying to control the whole entire thing where I think that's a purpose don't correct me if I'm wrong so the attorney but I think that's a purpose of why >> yeah that that's a Robert's that's a
Robert's rule and it's because the chair does have a lot of power about how things happen at the meeting and so they shouldn't be the one making the motion and so if they want to make a motion they have to pass the gavvel to another >> and that's the way I always thought it was I mean it's been like that for years
here anyway >> yeah but I think uh correct me if I'm wrong commissioner work what you're saying is we've been we being not just me but in the past commissions it was all always done based on
an assumption on Robert's rules of order. It wasn't actually official, >> right? >> And you're you're wanting to make it official, >> correct? >> I um as the person that's typically chairing, I am not I'm kind of agnostic on the being able to make a proposal,
but I would I will support that if the chair is allowed to second because when you have a proposal, there's five of us. And if you have a person chairing, then that chair loses the ability to second a motion just like the other four. And so
if the chair is allowed to second a motion made by one of the other four commissioners for a formal voter discussion, I'm good with that. But otherwise, just because you're the chair and and you chaired for many months, Sam, as the pro Tim, um, you
know, realistically, when you were doing that under that old assumption of how Robert's rules worked versus what it actually says, you were never able to second. You were dependent on your other three commissioners to make motions into a second. Otherwise, you're kind of
stuck or you had to hand over the gavvel and then you could do it. And it just makes things awkward. So, I think a second would be fair realizing that the mayor commissioner is one of five commissioners and but if you do don't want the chair to actually make a proposal, I'm good
with that. >> When I was the chair, I didn't want to make a motion because I was so focused on watching everything else. >> You know what I mean? Um, >> but a second's fair. >> Mr. Jackson, h how have you typically seen it? You have typically seen it
where they got to give up the gavl, but they can make a second >> typically. And I haven't I haven't reviewed Robert's rules in a while, but typically them the chair can't make a second either. It's it has to pass a gavvel um to make a motion and then if they need I mean regardless the chair doesn't make a second that it would be
one of the other bodies members of the body to do it. This is however one of the gray areas of Robert's rules of order. They give a recommendation but there's no hard >> right >> and I think this is where we could make it our own. If we were a 10 or 12 person body or even an 11 person body that
would be one thing but there's five of us and one is a chair and you get one person off then you're down to you know two and let's just take for example there were times where y'all were operating before I came where there were literally only three of you. the pro Tim is running the meeting that two others
>> and so >> that was painful >> and if if something wanted to get done if you wanted to propose something but Pat didn't agree with it and Sam running the meeting couldn't do anything as the chair well you're stuck you know it it's
not really fair well at least if Sam was able to make a second on that at least the three of you could actually have a vote and have a discussion that's why I say the chair should be able to make a second >> let me think about about that one. I'm not not sure what to think on that.
You bring up a good argument that might be that might be uh the right way to go. I don't know. >> Ideally, when you have a full complement of five commissioners, including the mayor, you're going to have at least two willing to to motion and second on a particular
issue. So ideally the mayor or the chair shouldn't necessarily be doing that but the ability to second to actually have a vote is not inherently a bad thing. So I won't beat a dead horse any further. But um I would be very supportive of that. I would not be supportive of the chair
whoever it is the mayor the proim or the acting let's say both the mayor and the proim are gone and then the ranking commissioner has to be and then there's just the three commissioners here. you're still going to have to have a chair and in order to make things function. I think that would go a lot
better. So, is there anything else any of the five commissioners or other four commissioners, my teammates would like to add? If not, I'd really like to open the floor up and and give folks a chance to have some comment. >> The only question I had, I can't find it now, but I thought I put something in
here where the city attorney is like the parliamentary officer. >> Yeah, it's in the fry. >> I know. I couldn't find it. And and there's a there's a conflict between that and the previous there's a section that the the chair pro presiding officer
is also presiding. So we'd have to that's one of the things we'd have to resolve. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> So for you have Jaime's document Rob and then you have my edits with the red text and the yellow highlight. That's
additive on top of his. Can you provide uh some legal beagle constructive feedback on that for us and areas where you feel like we need a little bit more polish or refinement to to get that good? >> Yes, sir. No problem. And I I'll work
with Commissioner War if if you're all okay with that to kind of massage that a little bit and then distribute it to the entire commission. >> Yeah, please. I would just ask Jamie. I actually think the formatting, the readability, >> I changed it to your >> Okay. Thank you for that. I I think that
just helps visually. >> Mhm. >> So, thank you for that. All right. Well, I'm going to open up the floor. Does any uh any of our audience want to come up? Come on down, Mr. Langford. [clears throat] Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Sorry, I was a little
bit late, but I listened to it on the way here. [clears throat and cough] I would not, could not in a tree. I do not like them in a box. I do not like them with a fox.
I do not like them in a house. I do not like them with a mouse. I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not like green eggs and ham. I do
not like them. Sam, I am. My mom and dad live in Northeast Mississippi. Their light bill was a little bit high uh last month. I was wondering if y'all could reach out to the power company and uh fix that. Nobody has the authority to do that.
Here's where I'm going with this. It's part of our responsibilities as residents of Linhaven to come up here and approach you all with things that you actually have control to fix or to do. Okay? I can't come up here and just
read from Green Eggs and Ham. I can't come up here and tell you that the Port St. Joe police looked at me the wrong way and I want y'all to solve that. You don't have the authority to do it. So my point is is that it's it's really just as much our responsibility to come up
here to this lectern and approach you all not only with solutions but um policy uh decisions that that you all are considering within the within the city. And that's why I think it's important that when public speakers come up to this lecture to approach you all
that it is something that is within your control to fix. If I want to come up here and and play a ukulele, look, man, I'm wasting y'all's time. I'm wasting my time. Okay? You can't do anything about my parents like Bill in Northeast Mississippi. No need no need me coming up here and asking you for it.
It's just a waste of time. Y'all are here to do business. Y'all are here for a purpose and it's part of our responsibilities as residents to bring you all with something that's within your control. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. I've heard that book probably more than
the average human with my name being Sam. >> Excellent point, Mr. Langford. Anybody else want to come up or add some thoughts or discussion to this? You're more than welcome to. Buler Beller Buer.
Okay. Well, if hearing none, does anyone on the commission have anything else before we wrap this up uh this workshop? >> I just want to make sure everyone's reviewed it because I put a lot of stuff in here. I spent a lot of time on it and I think a all of it's important in my opinion like for instance if about you
know agenda items, how to put in agenda items, timelines, being prepared for meetings, things like that. So have problems with any of them make sure you bring them up when we go to vote on it. And I don't what I don't want to happen is after the fact and we want to say I
don't like that. It's like well we we as a commission have to review this and make sure we're okay with it. So if we have any issues with it we need to bring it up at the commission meeting whenever we vote on this. >> Fair. And uh as we wrap this up I want to publicly recognize you Jamie. You are
quite the policy wonk. Uh you really get into the weeds on this stuff. you do your research and it's just kind of the analytical person you are. It's how you're wired and how you operate. But I I really appreciate the elbow grease and the brain power and the time you've put into this. Uh Birdie Thompson also for
the Sergeant-at-Arms kind of verification process. I thought that was very very thoughtful and I think you guys collaborated on that well. Um so thank you with that. Sir and mayor, if I can just add to what Commissioner War was saying that I know this has been
distributed to everybody already once and the comments have been made, but if you have comments as a result of this workshop, please send them to me and I'll work with Commissioner War and we'll get something back to y'all. >> The one standing thing I have is I would like the chair to have the ability to second, particularly when you're down
commissioners. I think that that's almost the only way you're going to get things done. Unless the two on either side of the chair, the fill-in chair, are drinking ducks, i.e. just up and down, yes to everything, you're going to you're not going to be able to function
properly. So, uh, other than that, I have no other changes to this other than the standardizing the term chair versus presiding officer. So, other than that, this looks great. >> All right. Ready? ready break and we've
got an hour back before uh the 5:30 commission meeting, y'all. We'll see y'all back. Same bat time, same bat channel. Part: 2
All right. Good evening everyone and welcome to our every other week city commission meeting. Um, welcome. >> [clears throat] >> We're going to have tonight we have Reverend Aldrich Kirkman from Mount Olive Missionary Baptist Church here to
lead us in the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. Reverend, thank you for being here tonight, sir. Heavenly Father, Almighty God, Lord, we come humbly in your presence once again, Father. Lord, we come thanking you for being awesome God all by yourself,
almighty, all powerful God. Heavenly Father, as we come this evening, we we come asking your blessing upon this city of Linhaven meeting, Father God, we pray for your peace, unity, love, and understanding, Father God. Lord God, we pray that you guide us, Lord God, and
that all that's said and done be according to your will and your way, Father. We ask that you bless each and every heart here this evening. We thank you for all you're doing with this beautiful city of Linhaven. Pray for your continued blessings upon it. Bless the leaders, Lord God. Bless the
residents, Father God. But Lord, as we come, we also come thanking you for sending us your son, our savior, Jesus Christ. Thank you, Lord Jesus, for dying on the cross, paying our debt of sin. Father God, Lord, we just bless you. We
love you. We pray that all that said it done again be in your alignment with your will and your way. And we say this prayer in Jesus name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. >> To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Reverend Kirkman, thank you very much, sir. All right, we're going to call this meeting to proper order. Additions,
deletions, modifications of agenda. Uh, does anyone on the commission have any additions or deletions or modifications to propose? Hearing none, we'll roll right ahead. We have no proclamations or announcements tonight. So, on the consent agenda, we
have a total of 1 2 3 4 five items. Uh, approval of our regular meeting minutes for June 23rd. Approval of the special meeting minutes for uh, June 23rd. Approval of M0088-4
pine forest drainage improvements project. We have approval of a a vehicle, a 2004 Ford Explorer as surplus and auction on govdills.com and approval to appoint Miss Margaret Barnhart to the Community Services
Advisory Board. So >> motion to approve. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second for the consent agenda. Is there any discussion or questions among the commission? Just want to say thank you to Margaret
Barnhart for joining the team. >> Okay, I will open the floor. Is there any questions uh or comments from the public regarding these five consent agenda items that anyone would like to discuss? Yes, ma'am.
We have uh that it's towards the end of the it's called public commentary. It's page it's number 24 on page two. Yes ma'am. So throughout the meeting every time we have an open um discussion point or where we have a motion and a second
for a vote. I'll ask the commission did they have any questions or discussion and then I open up to the floor for that specific voting item. If any member of the public has a question or discussion about that item, they're allowed to stand up, come up, identify themselves,
and talk uh for three minutes on that specific item. At item 24, that's broad, general everything. That's where anything dealing with city business, you can come and talk for three minutes, ma'am. Okay. So, regarding the consent agenda, do we have any
issues, concerns, or questions? Hearing none, city manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Ward, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. We have a 50- vote. Thank you so much. We have no old business. We have
no tabled business. So, that gets us to new business. And that is discussion and possible approval of resolution 2026-07-568 to settle case number 23-1405CA Phoenix Construction Services Incorporated versus the city of Linhaven
and Vicky Gainor. City attorney Mr. Rob Jackson. Uh yes sir. So this is resolution number 2026-07-568. The resolution of the city of Linhib, Florida, approving a final settlement of uh a settlement of Phoenix Construction Services, Inc. versus City of Linhib,
Florida, and Vicky Gainor 14 Judicial Circuit Case number 2023-1405-CA authorizing the mayor to execute the mediated settlement agreement and general release and amended and restated halfcent infrastructure sax design bill contract and adopting an immediately
effective date. And I know we've been through this for quite some time. the the uh agreements are in the packet for your all review and approval. The only exceptions would be uh there was some changes made by Miss Gainor's council because all three parties have to approve. I pass those out to you and
those changes are relatively minor just clarifying that she's released from this uh lawsuit also. And also there should be an addendum to the uh design bill contract that has also been added to uh uh provided to you all for review as you
consider uh this resolution and final agreements. >> Okay. >> So the pliff is fine with those changes. >> Yes, all parties are fine with the changes that uh are been passed out. >> Any other questions among the
commission? >> No. All right. Uh, if there are no other questions, may I get a motion to, uh, >> make a motion to accept. >> Second. >> I have a motion and a second. Um, with that, I will open up the floor to any
comments or discussions or questions that the public may have on this. Mr. Johnny Basher, come on up. >> I gave the city attorney some papers or a paper hand each of y'all when I start tonight. Um, don't get too bogged down in it. It's just a few figures that I
put together. Um, this is almost unbelievable. If it weren't playing right out right here in front of me, I'd think it I would have thought it was a fiction novel. The commission acted against this commission acted against legal counsel's recommendations, thus giving Mr. Finch's lawsuit more
standing. Now, the same group, some financially and publicly supported by Mr. Finch, plus the mayor who owes his seat to Mr. Finch via the recall that Mr. Finch spent over $100,000 orchestrating are voting to award Mr. Finch $1 and a4 million and a 10-year no
bid contract on any infrastructure project under $300,000 and which by the way is the maximum allowed by state statutes 255.20. All the while, Mr. Finch says it's never been about the money. This based in part on the deposition
given by Chris Borhan and Panhandle Engineering stating that Vicky Gainor had participated in bidrigging, an accusation that never resulted in any criminal charges being placed against her. Amazingly, Mr. Finch dropped Mr. Forehand and Panhandle Engineering from the lawsuit. And even more amazing, all
the engineering projects that awarded to Mr. Finch Phoenix Construction under this settlement will be done by Mr. Forehand and Panhandle Engineering. Now, I realize it's a foregone conclusion basically, but there's an attached price schedule to this that wasn't put out for bids and never will be put out for bids.
So, I went online and looked at some figures on that sheet and I'm going to give you Phoenix's numbers first and the state average unit cost for that per DOT for 2526. So, for optional base group 4, Phoenix
was $24 a square yard. The average was $28 per square yard. So it's better for f for us there. The rest of them are all in Phoenix's favor. Optional base group six Phoenix $33 state $24. Milling
asphalt $6.50 a square yard versus 3.88 a square yard. Miscellaneous asphalt payment $400 per metric ton versus 294 per metric ton. So you get the idea. On every line item that's on that unit
pricing, bench is probably at least one and a half to two times more expensive than what DOT has paid historically in the last year for the same items. So I think that personally
give him the money, whatever, but don't don't commit us to a 10-year contract. just shake hands and go away. Or not go away, but get back to normal bidding of the process instead of just giving him everything that goes under $300,000. Or better yet, just don't do any more projects for infrastructure that are
under $300,000. That's it. >> Thank you, sir. Mr. Bernie Thompson, come on up. Good evening. >> Uh Bernie Thompson, the Bernie Thompson Show. I didn't plan on commenting on this at all.
>> Bless you. But that's got to go answered. Those comments have to go answered. I I was in the courtroom when they persecuted James Finch. And two juries said he didn't do it. I I didn't know James Finch. I thought he was a mobster.
And I went in the courtroom ready for them to throw this guy in prison and I looked through all of the documents. You know the story. He didn't do any of that. As a matter of fact, Mr. Jackson, you'll remember when he fixed the 17th Street ditch, the
biggest danger in in in Lin Haven, and you guys couldn't afford to fix the ditch. And guess what he did? He said, "I'll do it." And you guys said, "We don't have the money to fix the ditch." You remember that, Mr. Jackson? But you never said anything. And you know what
he said? He said, "I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll finance it myself." And and guess what? 2 and a2% interest when the going rate was like six. And then he said, "You know what? I'll
actually do it for less than I thought I could do it." And that left a little money left over. And you know what you guys did? Vicky Gainor did. And and the other uh commission back then, they said, "You know the money that you offered, Mr. Finch, the leftover money,
can we borrow that too since it's cheap money? You guys called it cheap money. It was cheap money. And then somebody came up here and said, you know, Mr. Finch, how do we know he's not going to get change orders and it's going to be way more expensive? Remember this, Mr. Jackson? And and he came up and what did
he say? Don't pay me till the job is done. And he did it for less than he said he would do it. And he did it in less than a year. And they tried to prosecute him. Well, Bernie, you know, with all that interest, he's going to become rich.
Finch is rich. The hell's wrong? What's going on around you? You remember that, Mr. Jackson? But you never said anything and you were the attorney. Shame on you. I mean, how do we let our citizens go through this? I'm telling you, if Jesse Nelson had been charged like that, I
knew Jesse didn't like him, but I would say the same thing for him. There's not enough people in this town to stand up when people are wrongly prosecuted. And for you guys, what was it? 250,000. That's all you have to give him. Is that what you guys said? Is that what is the
number? Can I please find out? What is it? Quarter of a million. I just one and a quarter million. Man, that's cheap. A man's life they tried to throw in prison forever. My god. And you know what else we found out in the in the
hearing in the trial? 5 nothing. He was always voted unanimously. Nobody cast the vote, the the deciding vote. Unbelievable. You guys got off really lucky on that. >> Thank you, sir. Mr. Finch, come on up.
>> Good evening. >> I'm a little late. I figured y'all I could make a few minutes without getting started. >> But, uh, you know, when when the half cent sales tax come up, I was the one that brought it up because they was going to raise the property tax on everybody in this county. and I said,
"Hey, let's get together and do a referendum and get the money for half cent sales tax where there won't be any property tax." I raised $90,000. I went with to the Chamber of Commerce, paid them, give them the money to go to
the cities, tell them what we'd do with it, how we'd fix it, be no property tax raise. And that's what happened. It passed. We got it passed for 10 years. We got another 10 years uh two uh six months ago. Had to do it a year early.
We got it passed again for no property tax. Well, what does government do? They take that raise the property tax anyway mainly. But that's what I did for that. And then I as far as uh you know doing [clears throat] the work did the work. I
did have the 17th Street ditch. I did that and I donated more money than anybody has to this city and to you know I've I've give over two and a half million to the mentally challenged school over here and I'm proud of that and the reason I give it to them they
can't ask for nothing and they deserve it all and so I would hate to be 75 years old have a 50-y old kid and I was fix to leave the earth and nobody could take care of them they take care of them so they're one of my favorites the city's been one of my favorites
So, I come here tonight to settle that lawsuit. When I sued the city of Lhaven, the only way I could get the truth was get them up here and do this. They're all gone. The lawyer, the police chief, they all gone. The corruption was inside the city hall. I told them not to build
this damn place right here. What did they do? They come wearing a wire on me, trying to trick me into that. I said, "Y'all cannot build this for that." And they did. And I'm several million dollars over. You know, I only got 54 seconds left, but this city's been
running like BS for the last few years. We got him out of here. He run. Nobody wanted him. He ain't done nothing. He's up here every week trying to fix something. You know what he's fixed? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And this city needs some fixing. I'm going Y'all
going to write me a check, I think, for $620,000. I'm going to take my lawyer uh lawyer fees out of it and give every damn bit of it back to you. I hope he'll match it. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir.
Any other public commentary on this tonight? Our questions hearing none. City manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles? >> Yes. >> Commissioner War? >> Yes. >> Mayor Lowry?
>> Yes. 50 vote. Thank you for that. Before we go on, uh, Mr. Finch, um, just to clarify, Mr. Thompson, you asked a question. The 1.25 million is split between the city of Linhaven and our
municipal insurance. They are paying half and we're paying half. Had we uh gone forward in a court action, Mr. Finch would have been liable for probably three times that amount. and he
settled with the city, his city of his whole life. Uh, Mr. Finch, I was not here obviously, nor was any member of this commission uh, actively involved in any of the wrongdoing that was done against you by your name or by your
business. Uh, I am truly, as mayor, I am truly sorry that happened. Uh, I'm glad we're able to move forward with this and make this right. I appreciate you being willing to take your lawyer fees aside and turn around and donate the money back to the good of the city
and the needs that need to be ha that need to happen. Uh we're going into a very tight budget era and uh we could certainly use every bit of the help we can get. So, thank you, sir, for your grace and for
working with us to try to write this wrong. Yes, sir. Come on back up. You know, Judy's been up here the longest. You know, I talked to Judy. I said, "Judy, I'm going to take the $620,000
that the citizens liable for. I've spent over $5 million. I was the one who reported the corruption." I told Margot, I said, "Margot, here's what's happening. You've got one choice." She says, "I know what choice I got. I'm
going to the sheriff." And that's what she did. Had some of the people that was supposed to been friends of mine in the deal. You know, it got the lawyer. It got the city manager. It got all those people. The corruption was in right here. So anyway, I said, I'm going to
donate this. I'm going to take my lawyer fees out of it. I'm going to take the out of the money that these citizens owe and I'm going to give the money back. What I want to do is to come out here, get with Judy. I want to see the money spent on the parts and the stuff like
that. I really don't want to give it to the government because it'll just disappear. But I'm going to give every bit of it with Judy and we going to put it out. Put it in the schools, the parks, or whatever. But I'm going to donate the money. I don't want the citizens money. Never did. I never
wanted to sue the city of Lin Haven. I had to to get them under oath. And when I got them under oath, they're all gone. So that's that's the reason I did that. >> Yes, sir. >> And and like I say, my family's been here over a hundred years. I've been here 76 and I fought this for six years.
World War II lasted four and I've been fighting this and I come up here to settle it tonight, you know, and do that. So y'all do what you want to do. That's what I'm going to do. Thank you, sir. [applause]
With that, we'll move on to discussion item number 10. Discussion of Linhaven Raiders Field Rentals. City Manager. >> Yes, sir. The uh Linhaven Raiders have been paying $1,200 to utilize our facilities at Kinsol Park for the last several years. Um with recent discussions of field rentals and
facility rentals throughout the city and budget discussions, uh we thought it was best to bring to you all to ask for some direction since you all approved the fee schedule. um if we were to charge the fee schedule um as you all have approved it at $75 per hour with an estimate of $11,400 for the year. Um so we are
asking direction from the commission tonight on how to move forward with the Linhaven Raiders and their facility rental for their football season. Uh we've listed a couple alternatives um in the car. Keeping it the $1,200 rate that it has been charging the standard $75 uh
per hour fee, which would be approximately $11,400 or coming up with some type of discount uh whether it was a 25% off for the year uh for an $8,500 fee. Um just kind of want some discussion tonight from what you all want and we would bring back a
resolution uh to make that official. So, [clears throat] just to be clear, this is not a city ran team, right? It's a it's a um nonprofit uh team that is located in Linhaven, but
it's not part of our programs. Right. >> That is correct. It is not a a league that that Justin and his team put on. >> Right. So, it's essentially like the equivalent of maybe like a travel baseball team. >> Yes, sir. or travel soft. Um,
I'll start by saying I absolutely don't think they should be paying the 11,400. Um, that's kind of absurd. Uh, because it's guaranteed that we'd get money in. I I've always been under the um I like
the analogy bird in hand is better than two in the bush. We got customers that keep coming back. I do know that it does get expensive to maintain grass and use electricity though. So really
the data I need to make any type of decision is to know how much we pay from the tax payer to maintain those fields. >> Yes, >> that's a good data point for me. >> So we spend approximately uh just under $3,000 a year on the the turf uh
restoration at Kinsaw. That does not include any manh hours. That is just the supplies needed um and equipment needed to take care of the field there at Kinsaw after they're done for the season. Um we do have increased, you know, restroom and maintenance supplies. There is no way of tracking exactly how
much it increases at the restrooms there. And then our power bill does increase a little bit throughout their use. Not significantly. Um but I would say, you know, a,000 or $2,000 for the year um in the increase in power there.
Mr. Justin Ward, I thought I saw you here tonight. Are you here? Would you come on up, sir? You're our our sports and wreck department head. What can you tell us in terms of this team? I know they're not a city sanctioned team, but you work with them. How many kids are we talking? How
many teams? How much kind of usage on our fields hour-wise are we talking? I'm not sure on the amount of kids in the program, but I know they utilize the fields after the 4th of July until about November or about the second week in November. >> Okay. Do you have a coach here by chance
tonight? We could have come up. >> Mike Mike is here. Mike is here. >> Coach, one, if one of y'all, one of you coaches, whoever your head coach will speak for y'all, come on up, sir. [snorts] >> Good evening, coach.
Please state your name. Hi, I'm Deon Hayes, a coach and board member with Linhaven Raiders organization. >> Thank you, sir, for speaking. >> I appreciate you guys for having us. >> Can you tell us a little bit about how many kids you got and kind of your >> Yes, so we range for about 150 to 200
kids. Um, >> and that's of course depending on sign up and of course there um we've been in this organization 60 years right here in L Haven. Of course, it started with our school systems and after the the
school systems kind of pushed football away. Wanted to keep that going. Uh football is more than just a sport. Uh even then, our organization is more than just a sport cuz not only do we owe football, but it's cheer. Um, we understand where you guys coming from
cuz of course you have to keep these and we we appreciate you uh giving us the opportunity of course to play on those fields, to practice on those fields or giving us a place uh to call home. Uh but we're a nonprofit organization. Everything that comes in is from either
us fundraising, uh, us of course going out doing these car washes or asking businesses, would they participate? This is about the kids at the end of the day, >> right? >> This is our future. We always talk about
investing in our future, but raising that price does not help help our kids whatsoever. We already have a limited amount of kids that are able to do it because times aren't easy right now >> for no one.
And for us to be able to continue to give kids uh discipline, showing them teamwork, uh showing them accountability, leadership, respect for the others, that all comes with the game of football or cheer.
creating a environment where these kids can grow. It's hard to to see that our city is putting that burden up towards us uh to have to pay upwards of $11,000 a year, especially when we only use the field
for 4 months out the year. That's steep. And of course, we already charge upwards of $250 just for the football side. The cheer side is a little different as well. But up to $250 for a kid to be able to
register. And honestly, that isn't enough. We're just skating by just with what we have. >> Coach, can you clarify um when you what's your normal season? Fourth of July. >> Uh so we start summer conditioning uh
June. uh Fourth of July of course is when we move to so we have to you have to pay for other facilities because of course that is the plan that you guys have given us that we can't occupy the field until after the fourth. >> Okay. >> Um so we're spending money elsewhere to
get kids in in shape in condition and then having to come over after the 4th of July cuz we understand you have your Fourth of July activities that will go down at Kinsaw Field as well. So, Fourth of July, coach, you guys get started and you wrap up when November time frame. >> November time frame. Um, and honestly, I
know we talked about light usage. >> We've been there since 4th of July and not a light has been turned on. >> So, >> because we're done by 8 or so every night, so of course the sun is just now setting at that point. >> Right. So, you've got 200 kids, give or
take. How many teams, individual teams do y'all have? >> Individual. This year will be a five team uh organization that's ranging from 16 I mean from six up to 14 uh 14 year olds. Uh now the 14 is a a newer uh age
group to our league but of course with us constantly trying to grow and grow that grow the game. We want to make sure of course we have that availability for all kids of all ages. >> Yes sir. >> Um commissioners y'all got any questions for the coach? Well, I I feel very
strongly about the fact that uh football is uh the one of the greatest things that you can get a child involved in. And I can honestly tell you I have a family member who was a cheerleader for the Lynh
for Lyn Haven 40 years ago. >> Her dad. >> Yes. >> And this this organization runs deep in a lot of people's family history. I've had people that's y you know that has came to me and said, "Oh, when I was a young girl, yes."
>> Uh even then, our past city manager was part of the Lin Haven Raiders organization, >> and they they get so much more out of it than just >> than just the sport. >> Than just playing games, you know, >> the friendships that will last Yes. >> probably their whole entire lives. Like I said, it's more than just a game to
us. >> Yes. I'm into those kids, of course, cuz I can I can speak for myself, but I also know that the coaches behind me feel the same way. Each one of those kids touch us in a different way. Uh you may think that we're putting the imprint on them, but they'll put more of an imprint on
us. >> Uh you know, Mayor, maybe we can uh chain a a riding lawnmower up there at Kinsaw Park. >> Listen, we have 200 kids. I guarantee you we can help you with maintenance. >> Yes. You [laughter] could mow a little grass and call it even. Yeah. So, coach,
um I I just wanted to make sure I understood the situation. Can you speak to how long cuz right now you guys do pay a minimal amount, right, to to help with field maintenance and cost and all that. Do you have any idea how long y'all have been paying that? Our city
manager, can you answer chime in here? Do can y'all speak to how long they've been paying their current set amount? >> I cannot answer that. Um I'm sure our my our vice president and president is here today. Um if they want to shed a little light on that itself.
>> Um [clears throat] if you come on up, coach. I think it's important before the city commission does anything is to understand >> what the basic facts are and and hear from y'all. >> My name is Mike Russ. I'm the president
of the Lin Haven Raiders. Um we've been using Kinsaw since Hurricane Michael. Obviously, before Hurricane Michael, we were at the recreational facility, sports complex that you guys have. Um, so we basically have been rating Kinsaw since Hurricane Michael. When we first I took over the program roughly about 6
years ago. When I first took over the program, we were paying roughly about $700 uh to rent the field. And like I said, we understand that maintenance goes up. We also understand we have one of the most beautiful practice fields in the county. Um, we get kids just because of that. So, we do understand that it's
nice and we know it costs money. So, every year it's been going up and we don't really complain. I deal with Justin a lot. Um, and I really I just pay the money so that we have somewhere to play and my kids have a home. Um, but that when I seen that number, that terrified me because that'll shove my
program down. Uh, we run on about a4 [clears throat] to $50,000 a year budget on what it costs to make kids be able to play football. Uh we already pay $275 an hour to Bay County School Board to use their field because we're not allowed to play games even in the city of Linhaven.
We would love to get games back into our city, but we're not able to do that. So every Saturday we drive up to Bosezeman and I pay Bay District Schools $275 an hour roughly. Game day cost us about $3,000. Um which is it it's crazy that
it costs that much. Um, and people I've seen some comments today online about people saying, "Well, just charge your kids more." Well, we have roughly 150 to 200 kids. All those kids don't pay. We have moms who have four and five boys. How you going to ask her [cough] to pay
$250 per kid? That's like a $2,000 football bill. So, of course, we sponsor kids. So, on top of that, we're sponsoring probably 25 to 30 kids every year so they're able to play football. So, in reality, our budget is low and we're behind the ball from the get-go. Um, so that's one of the reason main
reasons we're here today is because if that something like that passes, our program won't be able to do it. Will we shut down? No. I refuse for that to happen. We'll move. But I want to stay in Lin Haven. This is our home. This is our program's home. >> It's important to us. It means something to us. Um, but that's that's the main
reason you see people in the state out here is cuz that we can't handle that. That's a lot of money. >> Yes, sir. So, no, before you go, um, I appreciate both y'all stay here for a minute. uh because I'm considering y'all my subject matter experts. I think it's important for us to understand um you
guys and your program uh before we make any decisions, right? Um so your season's already underway and what did you and how long or how much money have you paid for this season for the four months and for this year
because I don't have that I I don't have visibility to that. >> So the way we pretty much operate is we love to pay everything upfront. So, we don't owe nobody no money. We've already dropped off a $1,200 check to pay for this season. Um, we've always I normally start reaching out to Justin at the beginning of summer to make sure that,
hey, everything's in order. We're good to go. Um, how much money do you need? Most time that's the question I ask is how much do you need? Cuz at this point, we just that's our home. So, we just pay it. But normally, we pay it all up front. Um, just so that because we understand that is a great price for us to be able to get there. So, there's no
reason that we shouldn't be able to pay it. So, we pay it all up front most of the time. So, and and mayor, they brought their check two probably two weeks ago. Um, Justin brought it in and that's when this conversation started because we have had the conversation the past few meetings of of facility rentals
um and in the budget. >> So, copy that and thank you city manager for that and thank you sir for clarifying that. Um, so up until two weeks ago or a week and a half ago when this popped up, you fully assumed you
were paid in full for this season. you're good to go. >> Yeah. >> Um so yeah, I I can appreciate it. Feels kind of like Lucy in the football with Charlie Brown, right? No pun intended. Um we also need to recognize that y'all
have been here 60 years and this is a grandfathered legacy kind of program, right? Can you tell me offand how many years y'all been paying the city of Linhaven $,200 for the field rental for the four-month period from July to November? You know
off hand how long y'all been doing that? >> The number I would say three years. >> Three years. >> Yes. Last three years it's been about 1,200. >> Okay. Commissioners, do y'all have any questions for the Raiders coaches?
>> Well, I mean I will say if they've already paid for this year, they've already paid for this year. >> So we have not deposited the check. Yeah. But Mr. Mr. Jackson, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the fee schedule is set by the commission, the commission is the only one that can change the the fees.
>> That's correct. Yes. >> M I guess my point though is we were working on next year's budget. This is this year's budget. So, if we do make a change, we should not raise the price for this season. We should start if
there is a change it should be starting next season is my point. >> I agree with that. >> And just a quick comment there. This is the Linhaven Raiders. Most of our kids are from Linhaven.
>> Most of our families live in Linhaven, pay Linhaven taxes. We already pay for this field. >> Yeah. and the addition on the parents not only to pay their property taxes like they're supposed to, but also pay for everyday living expenses, try to
make sure their kid is doing something other than I guess my in the broad scope is they could be doing a lot worse than playing football. Yeah, for sure. Mhm. >> So, my qu my, uh, homework for you
coaches and Justin, uh, who's my, um, sport subject matter expert, I need y'all to figure out and keep due diligence uh, as you go move forward, keep records for this season, right, on what the actual expenses are. Y'all have
been with us for 60 years. Y'all are a legacy program. To your point, I would assume I would be really interested to know how many of the Linhaven Raver Raiders are actually Linhaven kids 80 90%. That's wonderful. That's a success story. We need to highlight that. But also, I want to know what our costs are.
We shouldn't be making a ton of money on y'all, but we shouldn't be losing a ton of money on y'all either, right? So, whatever the honorable field maintenance is, the cost, the grass, the electricity, whatever, toilet paper in the bathrooms, whatever, let's figure out what the fair amount is
for next season. You've, to Commissioner Peele's point, you've already paid your your contract upfront for this season. anything we do forward. And we should be keeping good records so that we both know honestly and honorably what you're costing so that we can break even or
maybe make a little bit, right, to cover his team's cost for manh hours and that kind of stuff to support y'all. But it should we shouldn't be losing our shirt and y'all shouldn't be losing your program trying to make this inherent goodness happen. And I think that's how we do a win-win
here. That's what community sports, that's what community ship's all about, right? Getting these young men and women together, teaching them the values. I know you live and breathe this all the time, Sam. This is your total wheelhouse. Um, seems pretty straightforward to me.
>> Any other commissioner got a question, comments? >> Um, I mean, I think no doubt there's going to have to be some adjustments done in the future. Um, it would be totally unfair for us to all of a sudden go 11,000 and ruin your program for this year. That's not our goal. Obviously, we
would not want to do I I would not want to do that. Um, do you guys have like a website or something where people can donate money to this? Maybe we can help promote it, help you guys get some more money or anything like that? >> We would love to have some type of
partnership with the city. Uh, we've been looking for that. I guess a big thing too, if we're going to be the Linhaven Raiders, we need to all go the community. Uh community means a lot to us and why not do it with the people who run our our our community at that point.
>> So, uh we don't have a a necessary website. We have we do have a Facebook um that of course we post most of our stuff on. Um the website is more so for registration purposes uh more than anything. [clears throat] But of course we would love to find some common ground
and a partnership with the city. That way of course not only can you guys be involved uh with creating a better future for these kids, but also be a part of that community that we call football and cheer. So, if um go ahead after this meetings
or something, if you don't mind contacting me, I actually know of um a website that works really good and it's totally free if um cuz I know like a lot of website they you get donations and then they take a chunk of it. This one doesn't do that. However, there's a
little bit of caveat to it that I can kind of explain to you and help you out with that. I think it's a great website um for trying to do things like that. But um yeah, so I I'd like to make a motion for the to stay the $1,200 for
just this season and then we coordinate with them for next season um to kind of come up with a um a resolution as far as uh the rates ongoing from here. >> I'll second that. >> So we have a motion in a second and I
agree with that. I mean, we have to recognize y'all been here, part of this community for 60 years. [snorts] >> That's nothing to sneeze at. >> And I appreciate y'all continuing because you're doing this out of the goodness of your heart. Um, and you're
probably paying for some of those kids, those scholarships that you talked about. I'd be willing to bet you're probably paying a third of those out of your own pocket. >> We do. Most of our board members, most every >> if they're in our program and they're volunteering, more than likely they're paying for a kid or they found somebody else that would pay.
>> Yeah. >> Just what we do. >> I'll sponsor a couple kids. >> Thank you very much. >> Um, so Justin, going forward, sir. Um, I'm not tasking. I'm asking you work with them and the city manager.
Obviously, city manager, y'all figure out y'all do a cost data. I mean y'all y'all figure out what it's actually costing. Let's look back at this. If there is a organization, a community organiz sports organization we're going to grandfather into anything, it needs
to be this organization and but we need to know what those legit this season costs are so that we can come back and make an informed decision before next season so you're not caught off guard two weeks after the season started. Um,
and we do right by y'all and we do right by the city and we do the very best we can with what we got. >> I do think that we need if there's an adjustment to the fee schedule, we need to figure that out during this budget season, >> not wait till next season to make that decision. They've paid for this season,
but we need to make that adjustment if there if we decide to do an adjustment within the next few months. and city attorney, if we were going to make an exemption, some kind of grandfathering exemption to this 60 plus year organization, uh, we would need to spell that out in
the normal fee schedule. Correct. >> Yes, mayor. Yeah, it would, when you look at it, I mean, you could put whatever criteria you want for the fees. I mean, generally, you need you want them to be uniformly inforced, but you could put an exception in there. >> So, Mr. Jackson, would it also be better
if we bring a resolution next meeting to put this uh $1,200 fee for the year as a resolution to accept that payment? >> Uh is is that the current that the current fee schedule is not $1,200? Is there's no contract for this? Is there >> That's correct.
>> Yeah. And so if if [clears throat] a resolution wouldn't be necessary, if you want to just go by a motion, but we could memorialize it with a resolution. >> Perfect. Mhm. >> I do think this is a good time to talk about I think with the rise of travel
and specialized privatized teams, we need to get more on board with doing this, making contracts with individual teams um and put it on the fee schedule because I mean we don't want teams to be blindsided with cost, but we also need
to be able to budget for field maintenance that cuz we do have an increased the more travel ball teams that use our fields, the more field maintenance we're going to have. But if we're able to get that budget, that money in our budget ahead of time, we know we'll be able to budget that
maintenance as it happens. >> So, like I stated earlier, we we've got about $3,000 in documented expenses for Kinsaw. So, the 1,200 of course won't pay for the $3,000 uh fees. That doesn't even cover the manh hours, but we can track it through a work order.
>> Well, let's do our due diligence. Like I said, let's figure out what y'all are actually costing the city. And if y'all are willing to meet us on that actual cost and if we have to figure out sponsorships or whatever we got to do to thread that needle, I think that's
honorable intent for everybody. And it as long as it can be a break even proposition for us and y'all and y'all have a field and we have a legacy that continues, I think that's a win-win for everybody. >> Yeah. The goal is never to make money on sports. I don't know if you guys know
this, but our sports program is $1.1 million in the hole. >> So, sports is not a uh a for-profit thing. We just got to make sure that it's fair for everyone involved because, you know, you make a good point. Most of the parents are taxpayers and and um is
you're a legacy program, so obviously we want to work with you. Um, but we also can't lose a ton of money. You You know what I'm saying? I I apologize for anyone that thought the intent was for us to start charging $11,000. I don't I
can't speak for everyone up here. Don't think that that was the intent. It was more of a data point of showing like, hey, here's what our fee schedule says. If we did it by hour, this is how much it would cost. Just to give us a data point. You'll see it if you ever follow a city in a budget season. you'll see
these large numbers of things that seem like doom and gloom. What's really happening is we're gathering data because we have to make difficult decisions. So, I apologize any stress that that brought all you guys and I appreciate you coming out here to explain your side of the story.
>> Yeah. So, kind of hopefully you guys understand where how this all came down. We we t the city manager with we want you to look at everything as far as cutting expenditures and and uh to help with our balancing our budget and everything and and that's what we tasked
him with and that's what he did. So that's kind of how it all came up. So I I hope you don't take it as we're trying to target you guys or anything. That's not how this all came down. So I appreciate and I appreciate everyone coming out and supporting this. >> Definitely appreciate you guys. >> Yeah. Appreciate y'all. Y'all work with
us. We'll work with y'all. and hopefully we get another 60 plus years of the Linhaven Raiders. >> Now, thank y'all. Y'all are welcome to sit down unless you have anything else you'd like to say. >> One thing, uh, we're not a travel ball team.
>> That's that's a huge that's a huge word when you use that. Uh, most municipalities don't have football. So, we have no choice but to go play football. Now, Granite Callaway and some of these others have have teams, but we are not labeled as a travel ball team.
>> Just want to >> Yes, sir. Thanks, coach. All right. We do have a motion in a second. So, we'll [applause] we do have a motion in a second, but I want to open up the floor to anybody else that has uh any comments or questions or discussion on the um the
Raiders. So, Mr. Thompson and then Mr. George Hines and then Miss Sandy Garmin. >> Go ahead. I'm Bernie Thompson, the Bernie Thompson Show. I hope I agree with Mr. Hines today because I'm tired of him always beating me up. But you know, sometimes we overthink things. You
know, we're talking about this organization was charged $700 a year for a long time and then it bumped up to,00 or 1,200 and they didn't complain. And this year they were told they might have to pay 11,000. There's a trend um going
on in cities and it's it's squeezing all the juice out of good nonprofits. There's a story I'm not at liberty to tell you, but it's a tragedy. It's just awful. And it's the same type of thing. I live next to the Panama City Beach Sports Park and I know they charge a lot
more and I know that Panama City charges a lot more than Linhaven and Linhaven might need to to sort of be get in parody with everybody else and charge more. But here's here's what I recommend. lead by example and and charge less.
If I if I got the math right, James Finch just donated like a million dollars to the city after you did that to him. And you guys are talking about not losing a ton of money, 700 a year.
So if we cut it to 500 or if we Here's here's what I propose. Cut it to zero. Do you know how lucky you are to have two men like this? Here's the here's here's what's been on my heart a lot lately. It's young men.
It's it's teenage boys. A lot of them are doing great. You know, they're doing working hard at school. You know, both parents are working. They don't have much money. It's stressful. And I think about when I was a kid and and Mayor Lowry, maybe you and certainly Pat when we were kids, we could we could
just run out the door, hop on the bike, go play basketball, go tackle other kids. That's important in the growth of a young man. This is not about resolutions or or tasking somebody to do a study or coming
back. My goodness, as much as the the guy makes and and I'm sure he does great work, if he takes three, four hours figuring this out, you basically I mean, come on. This is a lot easier than that. This is about a lot more than dollars and cents.
This is about giving young men an opportunity to be young men. You know, if they've got fathers or coaches, great. But if they can't get out there and sweat and, you know, go at it, it it really it really affects their soul. And I hope
you'll think about this and think about the grace that you were given today. And let's stop talking about losing a ton of money on this. I mean, that's about as nice a speech as you'll ever hear from me. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Thompson. [applause] >> Good evening, Mr. Hines.
>> Good evening, gentlemen and lady. Uh Bernie do a lot of talking, a lot of time. So I'm not going to waste my time trying to talk better than Bernie. But I was a kid once and I played football in the streets. We didn't have a field. So I'm going to offer $1,000 a season to
this team and tell me what I need to put on the check and it will be from July to November every year as long as I live. So I know how long that's going to be. That's best I can do for you. >> Thank you, sir. [applause] Good evening, Miss Garman.
>> I happen to be a grant writer and most grants are given in the October time of the year. So, I'll start looking to see if I can find a grant for the for this team. So, >> thank you. >> There's a lot of them out there. I'll
search and see what we can get. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> Appreciate you. >> [applause] >> Come on up, ma'am. Good evening. >> I just had a few questions. >> Grab your microphone. >> Yeah. >> My name is Becky Santoro and I just had a few questions. This is my first
meeting. Um, the gentleman said that they can't play in Linhaven and that they have to go to Bay County and they pay $3,000. Why can't they play in Linhaven? >> You know, why are you giving up $3,000? Why can't they play here? >> Because we're doing field recovery uh
for the 4th of July. So, we have to oversee top dress um because there's going to be a lot of cleats on the field. So, we want to prepare the fields before they get there. >> So, how Justin, how long of a period are we talking about no play on the fields? Like a month or two weeks? >> Probably three months, three or four months. >> Oh, wow.
>> Yep. Starting February. >> Basically early spring, correct? spring break kind of to early summer. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> They're playing from July to >> They are >> on Kel Field. >> They are. So, we don't allow them to use it before,
>> right? But this is their games now, right? So, >> are you saying are you asking why do they play at Bosezeman and not the city of Linhaven? >> I don't know. >> One of you coaches want to come back up. I can't answer this
>> again. The Linhaven Raiders are not a us >> they practice >> July >> practice. >> So right now as it we start practice in July and we start games August 15 and we play games for 9 to eight weeks all the
way into November. We have a by week that we normally take off with those is five home games. So add 3,000 times five um and that's what we pay. And just alone out of that $3,000, um it's roughly two almost $2,500 just for the
grass that we play on that we pay Bay District Schools. Um we've been trying to get back into Linhaven. Um last year I tried to work at the last three years I've been working out deals with North Bay Haven um because they are in Linhaven. So I was like, as Justin mentioned, field space is not the best
because unfortunately this this might be another conversation for another day. We've been waiting eight years for a football field at Land Haven Sports Complex. I watched million million dollar baseball fields get built and we're kind of left in the dust and we only have that option. Would I play
games at Kensaw if it was made for if I was allowed to? Yes, probably I would because my community want like we want to be in L Haven. Um and do we always play at a field where there's goalpost? No, we make it work. Um but that's something that you guys have to decide
about. Um, we like we have talked before about maybe even partnership with you guys. That's a good way for y'all to maybe earn a little money. If it doesn't cost us much money for us to play football on Saturdays, that's one of the reasons why our budgets are so high is because it's not because of football pads or things. It's really because
where we play, it costs so much money. Um, but we've been trying to get back in Lynhaven for a while and the school board only keeps going up. So, we just have to give more money and more money. >> He just said it takes two weeks for him to get the football field. three months,
>> but we practice during the time. >> Yeah, this we saw our game start in August and they run till say November. We play on it five times throughout that whole time. >> If they're airating it, then how are we practicing on? >> So, what I can't answer that what I what
I have asked and it sounds like you and the other coach and Justin are in agreement here in the city manager, y'all huddle and figure out what we can do better together. Uh, and I really would like to look at a, no kidding, Linhaven partnership between the
Linhaven Raiders, recognizing y'all been doing this for more than half a century with us. Let's figure out a way to partner because right now y'all are not officially part of our sports program. Um, we got to figure out a way to basically fully embrace y'all. Y'all
carry our name. You have carried our name and you've taught our kids. So, why aren't we? I I don't know why we've never done this before, but let's figure out a way to make this a success story. >> So, I was saying they're already >> So, prior to the hurricane, the Raiders
always paid at Buddy McLemore or Pete Edwards on the on the beach, right? We our facilities do not have a secure entry where they can charge for people to get into the games. So, at Kinsaw, it wouldn't be a perfect setup for them to run games. It's not large enough. We don't have the parking, none of that. if
they've always went other places. And also on top of that, I want to say whatever we do today, we need to make sure that we're very smart about what we do because it's going to put a lot of pressure on our office when other organizations come and ask for the same thing. >> Yeah, understand. And if we're going to
make a grandfathered exemption, it better be with the one that we've been working with for the last 50 plus years, right? Um but we don't right now, we don't even have a good estimate of how much it's costing. We just know that they've had this flat fee that they've paid right historically.
>> So that we have a good estimate of what it's cost. It's costing at minimum around $3,000 per year. >> Okay. >> But we do have other organizations that rent our facility. And after today, we will be facing those other organizations come in as well that you all will have
to make an exemption for from the fee schedule. So, let's look at how we can do this transparently and honorably. Let's figure out I feel like we can't we can't even they've already paid their
check even if we haven't deposited, right? We need to honor this year. What next year looks like and going forward is a big question mark. We want to partner. I'm going to leave that to you and the city manager, Justin, to figure out how we make how we can make this
work. And what's the best way forward? I don't know the answer to that. You've got the biggest heart I know for kids in sports. And you got three kids of your own in it. So, I know you got skin in the game, a lot of it. y'all figure out what we can do, how we can do
it, and then let's come back and have a real serious public conversation about this and figure out where we as a commission can support and what the right answer is moving forward. The fields have already been conditioned this year. So, that ship has sailed
and we go forward. They're already playing their their team now, right? You kick off in a couple of weeks for your normal full season. So, >> the last comment, [laughter] >> thank you, ma'am. >> Sir, are you coming up to speak? >> Yes.
>> Come on up. Good evening. >> Good evening. How are you? >> Good evening. Welcome. What's your name, sir? >> Bryce Goens. >> Good evening, Bryce. What you got for us? >> All right. So, I played So, this was very touching subject because I was little kid playing for Cowboy Rebels. So
y'all are doing $11,000 proposed, right? So 114. Is that something I saw for it? >> Well, well, initially on the I saw online it said 114. >> That's if the entire fee schedule was
used fully, right? >> That is correct. >> Okay. So, the city of Coway or not, city of Panama City charges about $25 an hour for 150 hours roughly between football seasons for whatever they generate about
$3,200 a year. What y'all were talking is about $3,000 you said for field use, lights, and all that possibly. So, I don't know why y'all can't charge $25 an hour. Like, that is outrageous. from 75
to 25. That's a massive drop. So, and plus that is brotherhood, sisterhip, all that. It comes along. It also helps kids stay off the streets, do whatever else they want to do, >> right? >> So, I don't know why y'all can't drop it
or at least I don't want to up it for them because it's very cheap. But I mean, $25 an hour is very reasonable compared to $75 an hour y'all proposed. >> Thank you, sir. >> Yes, sir.
>> Mr. Gray, come on up. >> Like your shirt. >> How's everybody? Brian Gray, 113 Florida Avenue. I've been in Lin Haven since 1965. They even have shirt. And the um Len Ravens have been a good organization. and both my boys have played and I'd like to partner with Mr.
Hines and make it at no cost to the organization. Whatever number we come up with, I'll I'll split the difference whether we'll make it happen. >> Thank you, Mr. Gray. >> Miss Day, sir, and then would you like to come here or would you like for me to bring
you a microphone? >> She's more than welcome to come ahead. >> Go ahead, sir. Good evening. >> Good evening. My only concern I guess is Mr. Lightfoot over here. This is We have large crowd. The rest of our crowd is
actually practicing right now. And uh we really care about our children. We really care about We really care about I'm a little fella. We really care about youth sports. I have four children currently in this organization. He can't make eye contact. He can't look at anybody. Every time somebody says
something, he has a smirk on his face as if we're just poor people that just want to play our little game on a field. And it's pretty offensive. It's pretty offensive. Um, you guys have been more than helpful, friendly. We want to we want to negotiate. We want to we
understand that maybe it we're not paying enough and that that might be okay. But this was kind of slipped in to the agenda, not talked about, wasn't advertised. This is a decent organization. We're a very good
organization, 60-year organization. Um, so to just kind of slip it in the agenda with a massive $11,400 number, of course we're going to be emotional. >> Of course we're going to have feelings about it. And for you to just dismiss everybody that's come up here with you
roll your eyes, you smirk, you look down at your phone, and you don't listen to anybody. And that's what I've noticed this entire time. And now you're making eye contact. And that's okay. But these two coaches up here, the president and the coach first, you didn't look at them. You
looked at your phone. You were looking at papers. You would They had They made a good point. You would smirk and turn around. That's just pretty offensive. We're We're up here genuinely trying to show concern for an organization that has 150 to 200 children,
Lin Haven, your city. And you're smirking at us. You're laughing at us. You're ignoring us. They've all come up here and been cordial and nice, but I've watched you the entire time, and I just can't help
it to come up here and call it out. They've all Well, this group here has been very friendly, more than willing to listen and look and pay attention, and you just sit over there and smirk and laugh. And that's just very offensive. So, I just kind of hope that maybe y'all understand where we're coming from where
this was just kind of slid into the agenda where they were going to >> up our rate to 11,400 a year. That's a that's a wild number. And of course, you guys didn't know the numbers. You still don't know the numbers, but I hope that we could also get the numbers that you pay for
lighting, for maintenance, so that if we do make a deal, it's kind of even playing field. We do know how much manh hours are to cut grass. two guys to cut that field. It's not not a whole crew. Maybe one guy can cut that field in
maybe three hours. I have a threeacre p piece of property. I can cut it two hours by myself and weed it. So man hours is ridiculous. That's not a huge cost.
Um multiple people use this field. So thank you. >> So thank you sir. Mayor have a the fees [applause] the fee schedule pulled up with all of our our field rentals. We've got the power bills in front of me and the
expenses of what I was trying to work up to give the commission the educated information they needed to make a decision tonight which is where I came up with the just under $3,000 and then the different scenarios through of our fee schedule. Um it's on my computer here if you'd like for me to read it out.
>> Sure. What I will ask of you is for the president of the organization, um, and Justin, make sure they both have that. If we have our power bills, I don't mind sharing a copy with y'all. That's good faith. That's here's our expenses. Here's your expenses. That's that's
old-fashioned men and [clears throat] women being honorable people and working together, right? That's what we're trying to do here. So, I'll commit to you that. And if you can't get that, you need to let me know. But we will share. I mean, the city's bills are your bills,
too. So, there's a public access to that anyway. But we'll work with y'all and we'll share and we'll make this right as best we can for both organizations. Yes, sir. >> All right. We got anybody else tonight that wants to speak on this? >> Yes, I do. >> Oh, I'm sorry, Miss Dea.
>> That's okay. >> And then, ma'am, then we'll get you next. Okay, >> Miss Day, good evening. >> I guess I go way back to the early 80s and the late 70s. Uh the sports means a lot to the young people whether or not
you have any in sports. I was a coach might not look at it right now but anyway back in those years the Lyn Haven had girls softball leagues and let me tell you it makes you feel so good when you go and there's a lot of girls that I
coached. We were always number one too. So that worked out good. We did not have to go we would go out and get sponsors. city didn't have to pay. So that worked too. So we always since we were number one, we always had the same sponsor, Don Harlon. I have to give him the credit.
So anyway, these girls when you're going down the street or wherever you're at and one of them comes up to you and said, they always call me Mama Day. Let me tell you, I spent a lot of hours in Linhaven at the Kaw Ballpark. You know
what? I paid a lot of money, too. But that's okay. Mr. Harland paid a lot of money. So therefore, what we done, we just had something going all summer months. As the girls got out of high school, we put them on our team. And it was a good way to go. But to stand up
here and charge these people this kind of money, you know, Chris, you don't mind passing something over a resolution a while ago that you passed. It took a lot of money. So what happened? You know, these are things that's been on the agenda for years ago.
So, these are things that you've got to pay attention to. You know, are you passing money that you're not really taking your young people in consideration? Think about it. You pass a lot of resolutions that you don't ask anything
about it and it's a lot of money. So, tonight you passed one under the consent agenda. So these are things that the people need to be aware of that the reason you're talking about what $12,000 I think it is Chris
>> $12,000 right okay so these they need help they're they're going to need help and I appreciate you trying to lend them a helping hand but when you increased this a few weeks ago and I heard that I thought to myself I think Sam was the one that spoke up a little bit about it
but not any of you said too much about it. You just wanted to see how you could make more money. Just make more money. So, I'm sorry to say that I feel honored to know that I was part of the Len Haven girls softball team and I really appreciate every one of those girls.
They're very much appreciated. They're here today. They have good jobs. So, we have a lot to give a credit to. Lyn, how you doing? >> Thank you, Miss Stay. Thank you. It's good to see you out tonight. [applause] Ma'am, come on up.
>> Hello. >> Good evening. >> Megan Brenson. How are you today? >> Good evening, Miss Megan. >> I just wanted to share a different perspective. Um, I'm a mom of four boys. I got to be on the Linhaven Raider board the past well two years ago. My husband's a football coach for the
Linhaven Raiders and two of my boys play football for the Linhaven Raiders. We pay a lot of money to pay football just in mouthguards, helmets, oh, you know, oh, they need a new pair of practice pants. Oh, they need water at the ballpark. They need to get into the ballpark. There's a lot of expenses that
parents incur. Um, but on the other side of that, I I know Mr. Lightfoot, you were just doing your job. Um, I know it's your job to look at numbers and I appreciate that. On the other side of that, these coaches and these presidents, the vice presidents, this is not their job. They all have jobs
outside of this and this is truly just 6:00 to 8:00 pm Monday through Friday. Um, Saturdays on the weekends too, we've got games. So, they're just giving their time because it's for the kids. So, I hope that you put that into your perspective because it's not about us.
It is about these children in the community. My children in my community, a Linhaven resident. I get it. Um, but I I just wanted to say we do appreciate you for looking at numbers. I know you have a job to do. Um, but I also appreciate the volunteers and and the organization for giving my kids
something to do that is productive. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much. [applause] >> Anybody else uh would like to speak about the Linhaven Raiders tonight? Hearing done, um we will call this uh
we'll call the motion or excuse me, call the vote the role. Mayor, just to clarify, is there a date certain that you want the data back by for for a date the data from the Raiders? >> So, I asked CJ to make a note for the second meeting in April that we bring
bring this back for next season. So, my understanding is the coaches uh and Justin will be working together on both sides of that organizational fence per se to document each other's costs and we'll come back together in the
spring well in advance of season kickoff and we'll figure this out. All right. Thank y'all coaches for working with us and for what you do sincerely. >> All right. So, we got a motion and a second. Everybody's had their questions and and been heard. City manager, we're
ready to call the role. >> Commissioner Ward, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. Thank y'all for that. Thank you again, coaches, uh, moms, dads,
>> we'll pause and let y'all roll out. >> Yep. Go take care of them kids. Everybody, we're going to stand by about 15 20 seconds and let them clear out. [clears throat] All right, we're down to new business
number 11. Discussion and possible approval to award RFP25.26-17 26-17 for attorney selection. City manager. >> Yes, sir. Uh we talked about this last meeting as well, but we had three firms submit. We had one in-house applicant
submit. Uh the in-house applicant withdrew uh his at right before the last meeting. Um and since then, we've had uh the VO law firm has withdrawn, left us down to the Sabatini firm and the Dunlap shipment firm. Um we did ask both of
those firms to come tonight. I do believe we have uh representatives from the shipment firm here tonight. Um I'm not sure if anyone is here from the Sabatini firm. I have not seen anyone there. Um but it's up to you all to ask questions um to discuss amongst yourselves and if you want all want to
choose to pick a firm tonight or direct staff for another option. So, ma'am, >> um I guess uh we could ask questions, but to be honest, I I would make a motion that we accept the shipment uh firm.
They're local. They're right here, and I see no point in going on and on and on about this attorney issue. So what what are we voting on? Because >> there's a difference in price now
because of the there was an error that was put on the form. So I think that's the first part we have to figure out is >> are we are we voting on the $750 a month monthly retainer or $7,500 a month monthly retainer? >> Second [clears throat] for discussion.
>> So >> So let me repeat. So, originally Shipman put in their bid package. It had $750 a month monthly retainer, but they came back and said that there was an error and they missed
a zero in it and they said it's $7,500 a month monthly retainer. So, that's what I'm trying to figure out is which one are we voting on? >> Well, before we vote on anything, let's have a sunshine law friendly conversation among the five of us on what we're looking at. Um, we had three
participants or three uh firms apply. >> Miss Judy, can I ask you to uh pull back your motion for right now? Let's discuss first and then >> Sure. I'll pull it back. >> Thank you, ma'am. So, let's first have a a full frank discussion all five of us. Uh,
whatever whatever needs to be done. So, we have three law firms, right? We one has withdrawn, so we're down to two. We have Sabatini and Dunlap shipment. Of those two, there were my understanding is there are two different prices given. There's a monthly retainer and then an
hourly rate and then there's an all-in flat rate for an entire year. It's basically an apple or an orange. We can pick either one. We don't pick both. If we go all in on the flat rate, it's X amount. If we do the uh allocart almost,
if you will, the apple, you're paying a monthly retainer plus so much an uh per hour for legal expenses. >> Well, there's actually three things there then when you bring that up. So, you have the flat rate, which I think was $275,000 >> for Dunlap shipment. Yes.
>> And then you have the the initial bid package had $750 a monthly retainer and they came back and said, "We left off a zero in there." and they said it was seven $7,500 monthly retainer. So, I think the first thing we need to to to
figure out is is it considered a clerical error or um or not. [clears throat] >> If we go down the option of the allocart option, I'm going to use the apple and the orange here. If the orange is the all-in price 275
>> versus the if we're not even going to look at the apple, if we're going to go for the orange, then we don't need to price haggle over the apple, right? If we're going to do the Apple, then yeah, we need to talk about the Apple price, >> right? That's what we got to determine
because when I did my evaluation, I based it on the $750 monthly retainer. >> Mhm. >> Now, would my would mine change if it was $7,500? Yes, absolutely. That's why I think we need to decide, do we go with the $750 a month or $7,500 a month
retainer. If we and then if we decide to stay with the $750 monthly retainer, then shipment needs to make a decision whether they're okay with that or they're going to withdraw their application. Because we've had this, this is not the
first time this has happened where a vendor or contractor filled something out wrong and we've rejected those bids because of mistakes like this. And my fear is if we allow something like this, what's the future precedence going to
be? And you know, when this has happened in the past, what are those vendors and contractors going to be looking at saying, "Oh, it's okay with this, but not with this." So again, I go back to we have an apple and an orange. I am much more and you're f you're talking about the what I'll
call the olocard, the apple, the the monthly retainer and the hourly fee. I am far more interested in the flat rate which is everything uh for the whole year which is all parallegal cost, all legal cost, anything and everything.
It's basically unlimited use of them for a year for a flat fee, which considering what we've done, what we've used in legal services, not only the past year, but like the last three to five years, it's been significant. >> Mhm.
>> So, yeah, exactly. So, this seems like if we go with the orange, not the apple. So, bear with me here. If we focus only on the flat rate, we have a local lawyer firm, well regarded, well established,
seems like a very good option to me. Flat rate, we save money, we're done. This seems like a pretty open and shut case to me. But Jamie, Pat, y'all, or excuse me, Sam, Pat, y'all give me y'all's thoughts. >> Well, honestly, the main question for
that flat rate is based on the services. I guess it'd be a question for them, but the services that they provide, would that also include what we're already paying our labor attorney? Because, you know, we have right now we're using, you know, the
current council that we have, but we also have labor attorney fees on top of that that we pay to other firms that specialize in labor. Will this 270 will they be covering the labor stuff as well?
>> Ma'am, come on up. Identify yourself. >> Good evening. >> Good evening to you all. Thank you. My name is Courtney Sagra. I'm an attorney with Dunlap and Shipman and just wanted to come up and answer this question. It the flat fee of the 275,000 would
include our We do specialize in labor. So that would include labor issues. We do have attorneys that specialize in that. Um, it would not include areas that we don't specialize in, which are very few, such as social security law under ORISA, but it would include uh
labor services. >> Thank you. >> So, any other thoughts there? >> I get where Commissioner War's coming from. I mean, because of the clerical error, but I get where you're coming from, too. And we also have this weird
situation where based on the data that's been given to us, it's almost like the decisions been made for us. So, I mean, this is very unique situation. It's not a a standard um you got three bids,
you look at the best one and you go with it. I mean, it's it's a different situation to me. >> Pat, you got any thoughts here, sir? I my thoughts my original thoughts were I didn't want to bid anything cuz but I
ended up bidding and um um when I bid shipment Dunlop I put down uh transition in the bid it said they were transitioning to municipal government. So, I put transitioning with a question mark, but then I put
local and price would substantiate because it looked like their price was going to be better than anybody else's. So, and then if we're talking about um an over, you know, a flat rate fee versus a
monthly retainer. Well, the flat rate fee would make the monthly retainer moot, wouldn't it? >> Yeah. Apple versus orange. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I don't I don't I I'm I'm considering >> everything based on that. So,
>> and I'd like an answer to the transitioning to municipal government and what's the manpower lineup and what's going on there. >> Traditionally, Dunlop and Shipman has focused on HOA law and different types of law, but myself and Mr. Eric Krebs
have experience in representing governments. My whole legal career has been representing a county entity and before going to law school I worked in government and then Mr. Krebs his experience is doing insurance defense. So um insurance companies paid him to
defend municipal and other governmental entity clients and so since we've joined Dunlap and Shipman this area government representation has become part of the firm. and it's it's a practice area we're trying to grow, but we are local.
We've been in the panhandle for over 20 years. We have four offices, 20 attorneys, and lots of experience to offer to the city of Linhaven. Um, and I do want to address the clerical error. Um, a zero was unfortunately left off of our original proposal, but even with
that updated rate, it's a it's a great value to the city. You guys don't want an attorney that charges $750 per month. that's just not going to give you that high quality legal service that you deserve and that we intend to provide
for you. Um, yes, sir. You have another question? >> No. Uh, so you're the you're the you're the on paper you're the person from Utah, right? >> Yes, sir. All right, >> Miss Judy, you got any thoughts or
questions for >> I feel like if I'm hearing what you're saying is correct, it's 77 7500 a month. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Correct. >> Correct. Up. That's for attendance to two commission meetings and up to 20
hours of legal work. Um, it does include some more specifics in the bid. And then anything over that would be our hourly rate of 300. That would be the apple. If you want to go with the orange, that is $275,000 for the year for all of our services.
>> And what did we pay last year? >> I remember I did ask I did email um Kiki about this and she did make it very clear that it varies heavily from year to year based on >> right >> what we do. But I believe the math last
year was well over 300,000. It was >> it was so this is just looking at this past year we're looking at a $25,000 annual savings in flat rate and that's why this and with the only local company in the mix of the three. Um this looks
like a no-brainer to me and I would like to ask the commission for your grace. Let's give the only local company offering the flat rate save 25 grand. We can do a lot with 25 grand. Let's uh let's give them a chance. >> So, here here's the issue I have and I
don't know why we're glossing over this. We have initial bid of $750 a month. >> Okay, the ch there was a change that happened and the question is is it a considered a clerical error? And when I look at the
definition of clerical error, it's not a clerical error. If we accept the bid of $7,500 a month, we can open the city to lawsuits. >> Again, we're not even looking at the Apple pricing. We're looking at the orange flag.
>> I'm going to make this simple. Real simple. I make a motion that this is not a clerical error and we have to accept the bid of $750 a month and then shipment has to make a determination whether they accept that or not. That's my motion.
>> Yes. This is a request for a proposal. This wasn't a bid. So there's a difference in the the way those are calculated, how those are determined. Proposals can be changed. They can be adjusted. In fact, your your proposal request mentioned that the city for the benefit of the city can look at
irregularities or basically technical issues that come in the proposal and determine if it's good for the city. So in this case, yes, there was an unfortunate error of a zero being left off. If you look at what that calculated, it would be 37.50 an hour for legal services. You cannot find
anybody charging for legal services for 3750. It was clearly a cler on the request for proposal. It's unfortunate, but we've owned up to it in this respect. And we do believe that the $275,000 rate is probably the best one. And just so I'm Eric Krebs. I've represented the city of Linhaven in the
past uh through um the Pigot Referred Governmental Insurance Trust through the Warner firm. So, which I was with for six and a half years and I've um I live six blocks down the road on Pennsylvania. So, I've been a resident of Lin Haven for 14 years. My wife grew up here. She went to I went to Bay, she
went to Mosley. We've been in this this community for over 50 years total. And so, you know, we would love to be able to have a vested interest as we do in the city of Linhaven and be able to represent y'all with what we've been doing. Thank you. But as far as the bid,
it's a proposal request for proposal, not an actual bid. So, city attorney, am I off base here? I mean, I I thought with a RFP, once you get the bid, that's what you have to accept. Yeah, there's allowed for uh clerical errors. Usually
those are typos and things like that, but if it changes the math and that not considered a clerical error. >> So I I've tried to stay out of this as as you know. >> I know and I hate to put you on the spot, but >> Sure. And so there is a provision in our
procurement manual for RFPs that says that the original proposals cannot be changed unless it's a clerical error or some other reason. So So that may be what you're referring to. Yes. But >> and and it's not that I have anything. >> There's a lot of flex as we've talked
there's a lot of flexibility in RFP to ex I mean to accept what the proposal is, >> right? You can negotiate after >> that's what's in the procurement manual, >> right? >> So I just want to make sure we're doing everything. I got nothing against the shipment firm. I'm just saying [clears throat] we need to make sure
we're doing everything fair and legal. That's why I'm I look at this this way. >> We solicited bids. We had three bids, actually four. One in house and he withdrew. So, we had three bids. >> Y >> one pulled out. We have two we're considering. One's local, one's not.
They both offered monthly retainer plus hourly rates. They also both offered uh overall um one price fits all rate, right? So, that's what we've looked at. The local company is $25,000 a year
cheaper. It would actually be less than what we had last year. If we move forward with the orange price for the one one price for everything. The apple allocart prices is moot. Now,
if we go down and we accept the the apple allocart prices, I absolutely agree with you, Commissioner War, that is that is problematic. But their clear-cut flat rate 275 a year is less than we're spending now. I don't know why we're talking about the flat
rate. I'm talking about Okay, that's fine. I made a motion that I don't believe it's a clerical error that we need to accept the bid of $750 a month to make it make sure it's fair and legal. >> Okay. >> And and then if if this passes, then
Shipman needs to make a determination of whether they're going to keep that that bid or not. Okay. So, that's my motion. >> Yes, sir. I have a motion. Do I have a second for Commissioner War's motion? Hearing no second, the motion dies.
Now, the other option is let's what I'm proposing to the commission is let's give Dunlap and Shipment a chance. They're the local company. They're the best priced company. They have the expertise. Let's give them a chance.
Can I get a motion for this? >> I'll put my motion back on the floor. >> Thank you. I have a motion from Commissioner Tander. Do I have a second? >> Is the motion to accept the flat rate? >> Yes. Flat rate 275 a year for all of our
legal services from Dunlap Shipment. >> So it was between them and Vose for me. So I mean I I'll second. >> Okay. votes pulled out. So, >> so we're down to them and Sabatini.
All right. So, I have a motion and a second. I'm going to open the floor to any public commentary or questions. And I have Miss Sandy Garmin here. So, ma'am, the floor is yours. >> I love Jamie to death, but I'm telling you, I've worked for
attorneys and my son's an attorney. $750 a month is absurd. I mean that would you work for $750 a month? I I mean really we want the best attorneys
do the best job to keep us out of danger that we've been in before. So I'm just telling you I think that they've got a good price for what they're going to be doing. the flat price. And like I said,
I've worked for attorneys and $750 a month is that's that's absurd. So, I mean, it was a clerical. I'm sure you've made mistakes before. I have. So, you can't hold them to that.
That's that that's silly. >> You can address if you'd like. >> So, this [clears throat] is not the first time it's happened. It's happened before, but it didn't just happen on one page. It happened on two pages. It happened on the very first page where it had to be handwritten in and then you
look in the bid package, it was typed in. So, there's two spots. Two. And I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I'm sure it was an error, but it changes the whole entire proposal. And when you read our our procurement policy, this is not a clerical error. And when it's not a
clerical error, you have to accept that bid or it has to be withdrawn. That's the way I see it. And I'm just I understand what Miss Garmin's saying. I'm I'm not arguing as far as whether they're uh a legitimate firm or anything. I know they're a legitimate
firm. I know they're experienced. I'm just trying to protect the city and I want to make sure we're doing this legally. That's the that's the only reason I'm I'm I'm making this point. >> Yes, sir. >> Mr. Fetch. Yes, sir. I don't believe this was a bid. I believe this was a
proposal. There's a hell of a bit difference. >> Yes, sir. >> You know, talking about between a bid and a proposal. And I guess Rob could tell you about the professional services act. You know, whatever this is when the engineers come up here and it's I bid jobs for 60 years. That's all I've done.
All of them government. where it's core of engineers, the navy, the army, whoever, the do, Georgia DOT, Alabama DOT. I've I've been through all the deals, ADAs, minorities or whatever. But this is this was a proposal. Well, see,
in engineers, you select one. You you rank them. You remember how they rank them, Rob? One, two, and three. And you always take the number one ranking and then you go, you can't even ask them how much money they're going to charge. You take them in have a meeting with them after you've ranked the number one guy
and then you negotiate the contract. This one y'all ask for proposals and the money to be wrote out. They wrote out the money. They said, "Hey, we made as clearly they made a mistake on that deal. They got the 275. If y'all want a
275, you had a motion. It pulled a motion off of the 275. You got another motion on the floor for I wouldn't open it up no more when I get a first and a second. I can tell you one thing. Get the vote and then you'll stop all this stuff and you won't be paying them $300
an hour for a couple hours extra. First, second, and then a vote. You know, you got you got the deal. We need to do something. >> Yes, sir. Mr. Basher, >> real quick. and and even in in the world if you could force them to accept $750 a
month for this thing um by the time you pay their hourly fees that's for them to come to two commission meetings a month that doesn't include the CRA meetings the board meetings etc you're going to have a lot of excess hourly charges that I think you're going to see that number
would probably go past what the the flat rate is so whether or not you tried to hold them to $750 a month. I think at the end of the the period, you would still end up paying more than you would pay with the flat rate. I I like the firm that withdrew, but they withdrew
and now we've got this. And personally, I think the flat rate is what you ought to do and just be done with it. >> Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Basher. Anyone else? Mr. Langford and then Miss Well, how about ladies first, Mr. Langford. That's
all right. >> All right. Come on up then. You're next, Miss Day. I'm definitely not a lawyer, that's for sure. But um I'm just curious on uh Mr. Warick brought up some concerns there. It opens us up for a lawsuit. Is there a
statute of limitations that somebody would have to sue us over this deal? I'm seriously asking that. >> Please, statute of limitations for the RFP. >> Yeah. Let's say they they hire them right now and somebody decides eight
years from now to sue us over over this deal. >> Well, there's a there's a statute general statute of limitations, but we also have a procurement manual that requires >> uh biders that aren't successful to make a uh protest within a certain amount of time.
>> Okay. So, here's what I would offer then. If that's a valid concern that's brought up, you know, they baked up this this sandwich here with this clerical error, put it in the contract if somebody decides to sue the city over
their clerical error on this bid that they'll cover it 100% no cost to the city. Um, if y'all decide to hire them tonight, maybe that'll satisfy any any concerns. Uh, if they're willing to do that. I mean, they forgot to write down
a zero. That's kind of a pretty big deal it seems like to me. But um you know if somebody decides to sue the city, if y'all decide to hire them tonight, all right, and somebody sues the city over this deal, it's going to be written into the contract black and white that
they're going to cover every bit of litigation, whatever it is that they got to cover on that lawsuit at no cost to the city and that'll satisfy that concern. Maybe just an idea. >> Thank you, Mr. Langford. Miss Day, let's get you a microphone.
>> No, no. Let's Let's Hang on there. >> Hang on. >> I'd rather you not have to yell. That way everybody can hear you. >> Thank you. >> Uh I guess how did the uh bids or
proposals go out? What happened here? Who sent those out? >> The bids? Well, there was a request for proposals that went out and then we had three law firms actually submit proposals. Dunlap and Shipman, Vose and
Sabatini. Uh Vose has since withdrawn. So we have Sabatini and we have Dunlap Shipman. >> Um and in both of the cases they had two different price options. One was a $7,500 a month retainer versus 750 where
they had the zero missing. >> Uh plus 300 an hour >> or in their case 275k a year flat rate everything. >> Oh, they turned prop there two different prices.
>> That's that's why we're saying the apples and oranges. It's two different prices for two different things. There's the alle cart and the all-in price. Mr. or Commissioner War's proposal concern is for the allocart price. The rest of us have motioned and are
looking at the all-in price. So looking at the other price versus the alle cart price. Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Okay. So you have a motion, you have a second. Should take a vote. Okay. Thank you. >> We will just as soon as we let the
floor. >> All right. Any other comments or questions before we vote? Hearing none, city manager, call the role. >> Can I just say one thing before we vote? >> Sure. >> So, in the procurement policy, it says modification prohibition after the
publicized submission time and date. Proposal should not be modified, allowed to be modified in any manner except for correction of clerical errors or other similar minor regularities as may be allowed by the selection committee prior to making its selection. And in here it talks about minor major irregularities.
And this is a major irregularity. But I'm just going to put it out there. You guys vote how you want, but I'm not I'm not trying to to go against shipment firm. I'm just telling you this is what it says in the procurement policy. I'm just trying to make sure we're doing it in a fair legal way. >> Yeah. Would you come up for a second?
>> So um you understand the dynamic here and what's being discussed? >> I do. >> Uh and you understand the clerical error that y'all had that y'all identified. >> Yes. Um, to Mr. Langford's point, and I don't know if you're authorized to do
this or not, but I'll ask. Um, there's only one other law firm at this point still in contention with the y'all, and that's the Sabatini law firm. >> Right. >> If the Sabatini law firm was to protest us selecting you for the all-in price >> when you had an administrative error on
the hourly alle cart price, >> I don't know that that would be legally sufficient, but let's say it is. and they want to sue us because we hired you versus them >> for the other prize for the other proposed option, >> right? >> Will y'all defend us in for your error?
>> Well, we'll defend you if we are your attorneys in any lawsuit because we would be your attorneys and that's part of our proposal. I don't know that um I think he mentioned something about us paying for it. I'm not I'm certainly that's above my uh my level, but um I
certainly appreciate Commissioner War's point. It is for you all to decide if that is a clerical error or not. We believe it was a clerical error. Um and that is for the alleart option. It doesn't You're correct, Mr. mayor and
your apples and oranges uh metaphor that the $275,000 is part of the original proposal that was uh given and so if that is the option chosen I don't think that clerical error should affect but that is
for you all to decide but as your if you hire us for your attorneys then we would certainly defend you in any lawsuit that is brought >> and you're all in at that point anyway. >> Yes. >> All right. Any other questions or comments? Hearing none, city manager, call the role, please.
>> So, Commissioner Tender, before we do, could you restate your motion for Miss Rushing, please, so she can reflect the minutes accurately? >> Yes, please. flat rate. Yes. >> 275K a year was the proposal.
>> Good. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Ward, >> no. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. All right, we have a 4-1.
Congratulations, Stunlap Shipman. Um, you guys will begin working with Hand Arendelle for transition and Mr. Rob Jackson, uh, starting later this week. But thank you. Congratulations, and look forward to working with you. [applause]
All right. Next up, number 12, discussion and possible approval of resolution 20 26-07-563, lift station 26 refurbishment in the amount of $67,692. City manager, [clears throat]
>> a resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving an agreement with Marshall Brothers Construction and Engineering Incorporated relating to the refurbishment of lift station 26 in the amount of $67,692. And mayor, we've got some work we've got to do over at lift station 26. Um staff
reached out, got three quotes. Um and Marshall Brothers is the lowest and this will be funded out of the sewer department with the R&M infrastructure and the lift station rehab. >> Yes, sir. And do you remember offh hand, city manager, how many lift stations do we have right now that are in the
pipeline for for this maintenance >> for holes? >> Varies. I mean, it just depends on if we have some that have immediate repairs that are needed and some that are on a transition. >> Well, there's there's some that are that need a lot of love and then there are some just kind of on an annual
maintenance or a scheduled maintenance plan, right? >> Yeah, we've got about probably 11 that are in immediate repairs stage >> out of how many offh hand do you remember? >> 76. >> 76. Okay. Thank you. Any questions among the commission for uh for this
Sorry. >> No, go ahead. >> Uh, was this originally in the budget? Was this a budgeted item? >> We have lift station rehab and R&M infrastructure in the budget. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Yeah, it makes sense since cuz you don't know exactly which lift station maybe.
>> Yeah. Okay. Any questions or concerns? If hearing none, can I get a motion to approve? >> I'll motion to approve. Second. >> I have a motion and a second. Thank you, gentlemen. Any concerns from the public or questions regarding lift station
maintenance for lift station 26? Hearing none, city manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Wart, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. Thank you'all for that. Item number
13, discussion and possible approval of resolution 2026-07-564, procurement policy amendment. City Manager, >> a resolution of the city commission of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving updates to the city's procurement policy manual, repealing all resolutions or
policies in conflict here with and providing an effective date. And back in December of 2025, we brought uh the commission an updated procurement policy. We said we were going to use it about 6 months or so to work out any other kinks and issues we had. Staff has
done that. Uh Mr. Bracie has been working uh with staff on any changes along with Miss Jackson or Mr. Jackson and Miss Meyers. Um got those changes implemented and this is the revision for that. >> Okay. Any questions or concerns among
the commission? None. If none may I get a motion to approve? >> A motion to approve. >> Second. >> I've got a motion and a second. Any [snorts] questions from the public on
this one? Johnny, come on up. >> Sorry, I talk a lot. Evidently, get nothing done. Um, couple things on the procurement policy. There's a section 505.4 change orders. in the change orders mentions that any change order that
results in not or does not result in a net increase in the cost can be done by the city manager at any time. Just want you to know we did that in the past and I don't have a problem with it but you had 50s something change orders on this building. A lot of them were would fall under that guideline where it was
changed moved for tax purposes and didn't cost anymore. Just an observation. um cone of silence section 606. You as a commission can't talk to anybody about it after the bids go out until unless it's in public. Just be
aware of that. That's something that can trap trap you if you're not careful. Um my last thing is more of a question. And as much as I hate to even bring this forward because I think it needs to be in there, there's an affirmative action segment section in the the purchasing
policy that says that you're going to look at minorities, womenowned, veteranowned businesses. I don't disagree with that policy, but in the current political scheme with DEI and what have you, is that something that is going to be enforceable in this policy or is it
something that we need to discuss? Good point. >> So, >> so are you going to talk on section five? >> Yeah, >> go ahead. >> I know I talked to Mr. Lightfoot about this where and this was how it was written before that if there's any
change orders. It's based on how the contract's written. What was that called? Um >> yeah, 10% leeway of >> Well, not it's not like that anymore. >> No, >> but um at the beginning of the contract, what do you call that if there's any change orders? >> Contingency money. contingency and um
and then if there if you have something let's say you have something that's $30,000 and then uh there's a change order that makes it over 35,000 then that has to come to the commission. Did >> I get that? All right. >> Yes, sir. If there's a deductive change order, it wouldn't have to come to the
commission. Or if it's a change order for weather days or non non-contractual changing change order, then it would not come to the commission. I'm assuming this would be you, city manager. It might be Mr. Jackson as well as city attorney, but do you want to
speak to Mr. Basher's DEI concern there? >> So, to my understanding, Mr. Bracie, he can probably address it better, but that is a requirement for a lot of our grants and other funded projects that we have to have that language in the bids. >> Okay. Mr. Jackson, do you have any thoughts on that, sir?
Uh this is in the federal contract provision I think and I know there's been a lot of changes in that in the law lately as far as whether that's required or not and certain things. So we would we would stick with whatever is required by federal law. Copy. Okay.
Does that answer that question, Mr. Basher? >> Okay. All right. Any other questions, comments, or concerns from the floor? There's a lot of long faces. y'all are sticking with us. I appreciate that very much. Um, all right. Well, city manager,
call the role, please. >> Commissioner Peeles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Ward, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. Thank you. 50. Item number 14, discussion and possible approval of
resolution 2026-07-565 approving the FY2026-2026 midyear budget adjustment. Director of Finance, Miss Roman, >> a resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, amending the final budget for fiscal year 2025 2026 and providing an
effective date So I bring to you uh this budget amendment for a second time in midyear. This was brought in because of a couple of um projects that we needed to add into the
budget. One is for the Wyoming Avenue HMGP project 22031 and one is for the 10th Street infrastructure project number 22032. This is adding money to the storm water. Uh both are refundable. So it's actually
budget neutral. Because I had the opportunity to look at the budget again, I went through and analyzed nine months worth of actual data. So, I've made some modest changes throughout the budget just to get it tighter to what actuals will be by the
end of the year. Uh, it did result in a 2% reduction in general fund, but a 2% increase overall. And again, that's primarily for the storm water projects that I just described. Can I answer your questions?
>> Any questions? So, just to confirm, the heavy hitters are budget neutral. >> Yes. >> And everything else is just kind of tightening up actual data. >> Yes. >> So, thank you.
>> Any other questions or concerns from the commission? >> No. But I will also note that we will bring have to bring back another budget resolution next meeting or budget amendment next re meeting to cover the settlement that was approved earlier tonight. >> Say that one more time. We will have to
bring back a budget amendment at the next meeting as well to cover the settlement that was approved earlier tonight. >> Okay. >> That is not included in here. >> Understood. >> So what's the variance difference right now? Is it budget to the good or budget
to the bad? >> General fund is going down by 2%. So, it's going from >> about 400,000 you said. >> Um, >> yes, almost exactly 400,000. >> Any other questions or concerns?
>> All right. Hearing none, can I get a motion to approve? >> A motion to approve. Second. >> I have a motion and a second. Any questions from the public at large? Hearing none. City manager, call the role, please.
>> Commissioner Peeles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Wart, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. So 50. Thank you'all for that. Number 15, discussion and possible approval of resolution 2026-07-5,
excuse me, 566, duplication of benefits policy approval per Florida Department of Commerce requirements. City Manager, >> a resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, adopting a policy regarding the duplication of benefits in state and federal grants. Mayor, we've got several CDBG grants through the Department of
Commerce. They did an audit um as required a few months ago. One of the findings was we needed a duplication of benefits policy. Um they provided the template. Um Miss Jordan and Miss Dernia went through, completed everything, submitted it back to the state. They approved it. Now, we just need you all
to approve it uh so that we can send the official copy to the Department of Commerce to be in compliance. >> Any questions from the commission? >> Make a motion we accept. >> Thank you. >> Second. >> I have a motion and a second. Any questions from the audience?
Hearing none, city manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles? >> Yes. >> Commissioner War? >> Yes. >> Mayor Lowry? >> Yes. Thank you'all for that. Item number 16, discussion and possible approval of resolution 2026-07-567
to award IFB25.26/9 asphalt services to Insight Contractors Incorporated as needed and not to exceed 100,000 city manager. A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving a service agreement with Insight Contractors Incorporated for asphalt
repair services on an asneeded basis in a total amount not to exceed $100,000. Mayor, we bid out asphalt services. We've had several times where we've had larger asphalt repairs. We had to get three quotes. It is hard to get three quotes because they're small patches compared to what several of our
contractors around here do. Uh, so we put it out to bid so we could have this company in place for any of our asphalt repairs on an as needed basis. >> So just to clarify, this is stuff that's too big for our own in-house public works folks to be able to do. >> Correct. >> So this is your first first round
backup, right, coming in to be able to to do whatever repairs that our own public works crew can't do. >> Correct. We will utilize them for any of our typical asphalt cuts and stuff that's too large for our patch truck or if our public works crews get behind. Okay.
>> And have you worked or has the city worked with this uh particular contractor before? >> No, sir. >> How are they selected? >> They were the low bidder. >> The low bidder. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And they're located in Panama City, >> Crest View.
>> And they have ashalt. >> I'm sorry. >> They have asshalt. >> We'll get it when we need it. >> They do not have an asphalt plant. No, sir. They will go get asphalt from wherever they're they utilize CW or Anderson or American Sand. They'll buy asphalt from them. And
>> wasn't that our problems before that we couldn't get ashalt sometimes on scheduling roads? >> If the bigger companies are paving, it is hard to go get asphalt. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I know that we've had that happen before with some of our potholes and little
stuff that we've had sand in there, not not ash. >> Yeah. All right. Any other questions from the commission on this one? >> Um um like to make a motion we go with low bidder.
>> Got a motion. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. I just wanted to add that thank you for adding the not to exceed. That's very important. So the not to exceed 100,000
because we've had it years ago where it was just we had a contract with a contractor and there was no max amount and they would you know by adding that 100,000 were guaranteed budget budget wise that it will not go over 100,000 and I think that's important. So
>> just wanted to recognize that. >> Yes sir. And that's just to clarify Commissioner Pee's point that's 100,000 for the year right or for the contract. >> That's correct. That's not at one time. >> That's correct. We have several resolutions that you all have approved this year that the contract is for a
multi-year term. We will have to bring new resolutions in October for the new fiscal year for the not to exceed amounts. >> Copy. >> I did uh mayor I did research this company too because they advertise as a development
company construction and development and I never saw anything about asphalt either >> but I haven't heard of them, but they're from up in near my neck of the woods and where I grew up. The this is actually Okaloosa County on the other side of
Walton County in Crestview. But that place has been growing and booming for the last 20 years, something major. So, if this is a construction contractor company over there, I'm sure they're quite readily used and they're probably trying to get into this market.
Hence the bid. Any other thoughts, questions, or concerns to manager with us approving this tonight? >> No, sir. It will glad greatly help us out. >> All right. Well, we have a motion in a second. Any questions from the audience? >> I see two.
>> That's all right. We'll do Mr. Langford, Miss Day, and then I'll get you. Ma'am, >> I I was just curious. I was asking Mr. Baker back there. I didn't I didn't know if there was a discussion that occurred to make a determination as to whether this 100,000 comes out of the sir tax
money or why why it would come out of the general fund and not the sir tax or why it's better or or worse to do to do either or. Um so that was that was just my question. I didn't know the thought process on that. Uh where is this money which fund is this money coming out of
and if it's not the s tax why why not? And that that was it. >> Yeah. This comes out of our uh general fund street department uh the R&M infrastructure line item. Um it doesn't make any sense to put the small little repairs out of sir tax money uh when certax is for our larger projects and
big infrastructure improvements. >> Yeah. The only reason I asked that is I don't know I haven't been on that committee in a while the tax committee but I don't know what the health of that fund is versus the health of the general fund. That's that's why I asked that question. If if that's healthier, we
know how constrained. I mean, we we spent $2.8 million more than we brought in this year. >> You know, we're not balancing the checkbook here. >> The intent of this is to actually save money. Um, by this price, it's pretty cheap. Um, so we have several asphalt
work orders out there and we will compare and and do the math to see if it's cheaper to do some of this work with utilizing this company versus some of the in-house on the uh smaller repairs as well. >> Okay. Thank you for that. Good question, Mr. Langford. Miss Stay.
>> Oh, yes. I would like to ask who chooses the select the bid. Who selected it? >> Yes, ma'am. So, we had seven companies bid on this project. >> No, but who selected it? >> Well, the commission hopefully is about to >> No, but who selected this bid?
>> You mean >> That's all I want to know >> to it. It's not scored. It's based on price. So this >> No, but Chris, you know what I'm talking about. Okay. Did it come through the engineering company?
>> No, ma'am. Mr. Bracie, >> it's done through Stan. >> No, ma'am. Mr. Bracie, our procurement manager, put the bid package together. >> Yes, but it comes through one of those companies. Am I correct? >> No, ma'am. >> Okay, I'm wrong. Okay. Uh, this has been
going on too long. commissioners. You need he can sit up there and tell you all he wants to tell you. He was here in 2020. He has been promoting certain individuals. He knows what he's doing.
It goes through channels and you need to go and don't grin at grin at me. Okay? You take this serious, Chris. Take it serious. Okay? This is something he has been doing. He went
down to the county and he's drumming up all these $100,000 and you all need to really be questioning it because the taxpayers cannot afford all this stuff that he's doing. They're going to come up with a big plan. I see it right now.
It never fails. I was in this too long to see how it's worked. And let me tell you, it's going to come up a big plan for storm water. You need to go and read and read is all I can tell you. This guy's got some plans on the move is
through panhandle engineering. Chris Forehand and also you've got your stand people that's right there. They're promoting all of it. Chris, there's a lot to this. And please be honest with the taxpayers, okay? Don't come up here
and start promoting all these again. Let's get get on the same page. Let the commissioners know everything you're doing because he went to the county. He did all this negotiation with Enclaves. Now, we're going to pay. I see an annexation coming on here. So, let's You
all think about this. Okay. This is very, very important. Don't come back to us and try to get the dollar bills from us. Okay. All right. That's all I want to tell you. I'm sorry, but this bothers me. Just add it up. Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank. So page 279 of your
agenda packet is the list of bids and everyone's price. Okay. Go ahead. Good evening again. >> Um so I was wondering um did they say
how fast they're going to respond when you guys call them since they're coming all the way from Crest View? And do you are you required to go with the lowest bid or the best bid of what they're going to give you? >> So the city does reserve the right to not go with the lowest bid. Um but in
this case it would not make any sense. They are a wellqualified company um to do the work. We would not call them down here to do one small asphalt patch. We would accumulate several um for them to do at one time. >> Okay. I was just wondering because Miss Tinder said that when she looked them up, they didn't have anything about
asphalt and and he said that with Crest View Growing, what makes you think that they're going to respond to you? >> So, they have multiple pictures on their website of them doing asphalt work, but they are an asphalt company. There's companies from all out all over the panhandle that work in Bay County every day. So, we don't have any concerns
about them being responsive. Okay. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> All right. Any others? Hearing none. City manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Wart, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Tinder, >> no. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. >> All right. 17. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 2026-07-560 to purchase two Ford Police Interceptor
utility SUVs. City Manager. a resolution authorizing the city of Linhaven to purchase two 2026 Ford Police Interceptor utility SUVs from Akens Ford and to trade in one vehicle to offset the purchase price. And mayor, as described in your car, um you all
approved the surplus of the DY that's been parked out at the senior center for a while. Uh we attempted to sell it twice on gov deals. The first time it did not meet reserve. The second time the buyer did not pay for it. Um, so Captain Bllelock reached out to Akens Ford, worked a deal for a tradein. We
also have some insurance revenue from two of our um, vehicles, a Tahoe and an Explorer that were totaled uh, to help offset some of this cost. Um, it will cost $50,776 out of the police budget. >> Just so everyone is aware, uh, city
manager and I have personally talked about this one. My concern was with our budget being as it is now and us going in, do we really need two more police vehicles. Um, and yes, we had two totaled. Police officers were in and got hit by non police officers. And
literally they were totaled. They wanted four. These are the last two they're getting before we hit our lean. Of the two decked out, it's 96,000. We have a dy that's um uh that had gone up for govsdee.com
twice. The last it didn't go the first time. The second time someone bid on it but didn't pay the bid so it it closed out and canceled. They're going to be able to get $46,000 worth of tradein value on that. So they're getting two new vehicles for 96,000.
They're getting the tradein for what we were trying to get uh do the dy for 46,000. So, this is roughly $50,000 for two fully decked out police cruisers, which will be the last ones Linhaven PD will be getting for a while. They wanted
four, they're getting two, and we're getting it for basically half the price of what we would otherwise because we were able to trade in and we we're getting good trade in value on the DY. So, >> so couple things to clarify there, Mayor. We're getting 42 for the trade and they are not decked out. We pay for
that separate. They're not >> right. That's separate. >> You still have to deck that up. >> Yes, sir. That's purchase. >> How much is that? >> It's about 15,000 per >> Well, I apologize. I fully misunderstood that and I screwed that one up. I will
own it and apologize. I stand corrected. So, this is $50,000 plus get rid of the old DY. Um, but yet they'll still have to be deck out. So, it's $50,000. 50k for the vehicles plus another 15 per
to deck amount. >> That's correct. >> So we're literally looking now at like 80 80k. >> That's correct. >> I humbly stand corrected. I somehow missed that when you and I
talked. So I'll own that. All right. Any other questions from the commission on these two vehicle acquisitions? Or do you want to speak to you talked about the two that got totaled uh by our cops in the line of duty getting hit by other people. That's no fault of ours.
We have to replace those. That's kind of a no-brainer. Um you want to talk to the need of four and how we're only going with two vice 4? >> No, sir. They requested four. I told them to. >> Okay.
Any other questions from the commission here? All right. Um, Captain Bllelock, you want to pop up here for a minute? I'd just love to hear from you on this. No worries.
>> Good evening, sir. >> Good evening. >> So, talk to us a little bit. I managed to screw up the math here. I think it's been unfuzzed at this point. So, you're getting two 90 is it $96,000 vehicles. Uh, but you're getting the 40 some odd
42,000 I think you said um trade in credit for the old douly. We tried the gov deals. >> Yes, sir. >> So, we're looking at about 50k, but then it's going to take about 15k per to fully >> equip to put in the mercy lighting equipment. Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> 15,000 per vehicle to get it set up for
emergency operations. The vehicles are police pursuit rated vehicles. Um they need to be that pursuit quality to be on the road for policing. They are $46,000 each. Um with the $42,000 tradein, that gives us a really good deal on getting
two vehicles. Uh we're paying $3,000 for one and 46,000 for the other. We have uh an aging fleet right now. We currently have two 2013 vehicles in our fleet. We have a 20 I'm sorry, threeuh 2013 vehicles up under the police department.
Uh, one 2016 some 2018s that are just falling apart. They just they're just running run hard. They run it 12 hours a day and uh they're just falling apart. The maintenance on them is really high cost. So what we have done also too um we have
recently went before the commission several other vehicles that have been u um surplus that we can put into govdeal.com to get offset some revenue off that to pay for equipment. Uh we have that money left in our budget. We prior to Chief Blanchard coming uh I didn't spend any of our budget. I wanted
him to have a full budget when he got here. So uh he and I sat down and try to strategize the best way to do it. We need four. We told we could get two. We'll take the two because we really need it. We have cars now. Last week we had five cars in the shop. Um, air conditioning, runins, just different
pieces, parts. I mean, because they they drive 12 hours a day. So, we do need those vehicles. And we're happy to get two. Um, of course, we need four, but we'll take the two. >> And these two will be what? Frontline cruisers.
>> They will be patrol vehicles, be more police vehicles. They'll be um very great representation of the city. When people see them, they'll know there's a police police department driving down the road. >> Thank you, Captain. Okay. >> Any other questions, Commissioner for Captain Blot?
>> No. >> Okay. All right. >> Well, in that case, uh, we're at 17, item number 17. May I get a motion to approve? >> Make a motion to approve. >> I've got a motion and a second. Any questions from the public at large on
this one? Mr. Langford, come on up. definitely support getting these vehicles for our fine police officers. I didn't hear any discussion about the insurance money that come from the accident. If y'all wouldn't mind just
kind of going over those numbers. Appreciate it. >> Yes, sir. We received >> Go back page. He's got 21,000 >> at the 27,000 >> $21,3827
is what's in the car? I haven't independently verified that number. >> That is that's correct. >> So, we got how much back? >> $21,3827 in insurance proceeds. And is that just going into the general fund or is that those funding is going
directly to the pay >> that will go back into the police department line item? >> So they're still being used here, but it wasn't we're taking that 21,000 and putting it towards these purchases. It went into their vehicle line in their budget, right? But it went back to Linhaven PD vehicles. >> Correct.
>> Gotcha. Okay, that's all I needed to hear. So we have a motion and a second. No other questions. Thank you, Captain Bllock, for your input there, sir. Uh, if nothing else, city manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner War, >> yes. >> Mayor Lowry, >> yes. Thank you'all for that. All right. 18. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 2026-07-562 approving temporary voluntary annexation
fee waiver. City manager. A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, waving city annexation application fees for certain properties located in unincorporated areas within surrounded by or gener generally situated within the overall city boundary and receiving
city services, identifying such properties generally on exhibit A, authorizing an annexation outreach campaign to encourage voluntary annexation, providing for administration, providing for limitations, and providing an effective date. Mayor, back in 2023, um the county
and the city entered into an interal agreement to alleviate to eliminate some of these enclaves that we have like along 389. Um nothing has been done with it so far. We now have Miss Grand Prix on board. We asking to wave the annexation fees of $200 for the next 180
days so that we can try to get some of these parcels annexed in and eliminate some of the enclaves. >> I have a question. Uh is it approximately about uh 33 How many parcels? >> I believe there were 47 parcels. Yeah. Total.
>> I knew I wasn't counting. Right. And Gina, can you um tell us what you hope to achieve by doing this? >> Uh this will bring in some of those. Chris could probably explain it a little bit more,
but these are ser areas that are currently serviced within the municipal service boundary. So city they're receiving some city services definitely emergency services but some have sewer services some have water services maybe
some have both >> um there's >> they're bringing them into city they get a vote to a right to vote um and they get additional benefits as being part of the city I think millillage
>> is part of that as well >> and this conversation too came from the finance review committee um as hey what kind of campaign can we do to get some of these other parcels to to annex in um page 331 of your I'm sorry 301 of your packet shows the the city boundaries and
the pinkish colors there show the the parcels that are part of these enclaves that we'll be reaching out to. I actually watched y'all discuss this on your July 2nd >> board meeting and uh yeah, I mean it seems like a no-brainer
>> and the interlocal agreement that was signed in March March 28th of 2023 is for a 5-year term. Um so if we go through this term and we're not having any luck with any of the parcels annexing in, we will likely present to the commission to ask the county to
terminate the interlocal agreement if it's not working. Okay. >> Any other questions among the commission? >> I just like that it's an innovative idea where you're not forcing someone to annex in, you're allowing them to. Um, and then on top of that, waving it to
incentivize them coming in. Good point on the utilities because maybe something we want to push to these people is your utilities will go down because [clears throat] if you're not part of the city and you're utilizing our utilities, it's there's like a 20% bump or something like that.
>> 25% >> 25%. So if they annex in I mean they could ultimately be saving money. >> Correct. And some those some of those may be able I mean they can connect to city sewer if they have a septic tank but this may incentivize them to do so
sooner than later. Um I think it the distance is 300 ft with if a utility is within 300 ft of a property when they annex in they can they're they're required to >> to connect. So,
and and just to be clear, so you understand, this just waves the fee, their application fee. They will still have to do the survey and and pay those costs, but at least this is a $200 discount. So, >> it might entice somebody
>> for sure. >> We hope so. >> All right. Well, thank you, Miss Gina, for that. >> Make a motion we accept. I'll second. >> Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, sir. I have a motion and a second. Um, any other questions or comments from the audience,
Miss Day? >> Commissioner Wars going to bring you the microphone, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Chris. I'm I appreciate you reminding the commissioners what you've been up to. Um,
this has been ongoing for a while. So now we're needing some money. So what we're going to do is go out and anni annex these people then. But how much is it going to cost to annex them in? The $200. Sure. But that's nothing.
It's going to cost us. We got to put the stuff down because a lot of these people don't have it, Chris. You know how many do and how many don't, you know. So a lot of them still don't have all this stuff. So, we've got to pay. So, what you going to come back and
get? You're going to attach a storm water fee on us coming up. It's going to happen shortly. And you're going to come back to us and get us to pay for all this annexation. I know it's been there before and we're suffering for it today.
And it's on its way again. You got to watch 2020 22 21 22 23 24 25 and 26 is still being promoted. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chris.
>> So, city manager, just for clarification, everybody involved and make sure I understand this right. 47 parcels, right? These are enclaves where they already have some or all of the city services. Some have sewer, some have water, some have both. Right.
>> That's correct. >> You have a ballpark of how many have both versus one or the other? >> I don't. >> Gina, do you >> Danny McCurdle has done that work and I have the information. I don't have those [clears throat] numbers for you right now. Um I haven't analyzed that
information yet. So that I apologize. I just got that this last week. So >> okay so there is no intent for us to run utilities in the locations we do not um we part of this intermo agreement we are taking care of the storm water in the
area we are not collecting any storm water assessment from these parcels so it does nothing but benefit the city by getting them to annex in so that we can collect some revenue from them. Okay. So, there's no additional cost. Just to clarify, there's no additional
cost here. We're asking them, hey, come vote. Come be Linhaven citizens. Come be part of us. Yeah. You're going to pay taxes, but you're going to vote. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. Any other questions or comments from the audience?
Hearing none, city manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles? >> Yes. Yes. Commissioner Pero. >> Yes. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Mayor Lowry. >> Yes, sir. All right. Number 19. Discussion and possible approval to a
terminate contracts with WOW Internet Services authorizing the city manager to execute contract termination. City manager. >> Yes, sir. We've uh started shopping internet looking at various ways to save money throughout the city. Um the internet is is one of them. Uh we have been a WOW customer for several years
now. We have not been happy with with the service we get from them. We do have several instances where it drops out repeatedly. Um staff started reaching out to various companies. We talked to um WOW Unity Fiber, AT&T, and Comcast. Comcast did have the best long-term rate
for 5 years. Uh we will save approximately $12,000 a year. Um in page three or on page 311 of your packet shows the early termination fees. Uh we will slowly phase these out over the next few months. So, the only early
termination fee we will pay is $5, um, $454 for the sports complex. And we will, if this item is approved, then hopefully the next item will be approved as well to go into a contract with Comcast for 60 months. [snorts]
>> So, we'll save 12,000 a year. So 12,000* 5, but we will have the the one time hit of 5K give or take because um WOW actually did install a bunch of stuff. >> They had some construction fees at the sports complex.
>> Two out two out to the sports complex, right? >> Fiber optic. >> Yes, sir. This will provide internet services to every facility we have except the Bayou Preserve which will it utilizes Starlink. the construction cost
out there was, I believe, 120,000 or something like that. And >> correct me if I'm wrong, but this will also be kind of a hub and spoke. You'll have a main hub here and you'll be sending the fiber optic out versus kind of the hodge podge of just wherever they
can tap into in the local community. >> Right. >> All right. >> Any other questions? >> No, I think this is a no-brainer for me. Okay. >> Make a motion. I'll >> second.
>> Got a motion in a second. Um, any questions from the audience on this one? >> All right. City manager, call the role. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perno? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Warick? >> Yes. >> Mayor Lowry?
>> Yes. All right. Number 20. discussion and possible approval of 60-month contract with Comcast for internet services based on what we just said for number 19. Anything else you want to add to that? >> No, sir. As I stated, it is about a $12,000 a year savings for the city and
hopefully more reliable service. >> I know we've had some really bad experiences with WOW. So, >> hopefully so. All right. Any other questions from the commission? >> I'll motion to approve. Got a second. >> Got a motion in a second. Thank you,
sir. Thank you, ma'am. Any questions from the audience on this one? >> Come on up, Johnny. >> Just just a question. Um I noticed in the proposal that Lesie Porter Park, Sheffield, Al Kinsaw, um Kane Griffin
all have internet or connections with this. What are those? What where are those? What are the purpose of those? >> So, many of the parks have cameras and Wi-Fi capabilities. Um, then the garden club, the senior center, we provide internet services for the people that rent those facilities. >> Okay. I was just wondering about the parks. >> Yes, there are a lot of We have cameras
at all of our parks and they run off the Wi-Fi. >> Okay. Thank you. >> As well as the concessions. >> Any other questions for number 20? Hearing none. We're getting to the end. Y'all hang with us. We're almost done. Fund meters are pegged across the board here. All right. We have a motion and a
second. City manager, would you call the role? >> Commissioner Peeles? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. Yes. Commissioner Pero. >> Yes. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Mayor Lowry. >> Yes. [snorts] All right. 21. Discussion and possible approval following advice and consent on
the appointment of Mr. actually Captain Brian Bllelock as the new chief of police for the city of Linhaven. City manager. >> Yes sir. As you all know, uh, Chief Blanchard submitted his resignation. Um, we advertised the position internally. After discussing with Chief Blanchard on the best steps to move forward, we
thought it was best to stay internally this time. We had two applicants, Deputy Chief Enfinger and Captain uh Bllelock. Um we conducted interviews with myself, uh Chief Blanchard and Chief Smith from Panama City. And we all were in agreement that we thought it was best to move the agency forward with the
selection of Captain Block as our next chief. >> Make a motion to accept. >> And uh Deputy Chief Infinginger will continue to serve. And so basically, our number three officer will become our new number one officer. Our number two officer will remain our number two
officer. And they will continue to tag team. >> Yes, sir. And uh deputy chief is actually at a two-eek leadership class uh right now. Started yesterday. Um so he is he will still remain in his role as is. >> Copy that. >> All right, I'll second.
>> I have a motion and a second. I'll open up the floor. Any questions or comments from the community? >> Hearing none. City manager. >> Commissioner Tinder. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles. Yes, >> Commissioner Pero.
>> Yes, Commissioner Ward. >> Yes, Mayor Lowry. >> Yes. Congratulations, Chief. [applause] >> You've been with this department since 1987. 89. My apologies. I'm back.
>> He's been around a while. He knows how to do his job now. >> Congratulations, Chief. All right. 22 discussion and possible approval of smart goals for city manager Commissioner Ward. [clears throat]
>> So yeah, we uh when we originally did um Mr. Lightfoot's um contract um I had uh brought up and foot stomped about making sure we have smart goals and the contractor says we need to come up with smart goals within 90 days and I brought
up at the last commission meeting to uh come up with some smart goals. So just interested in what you guys have. >> Anybody got any thoughts or discussions? >> I was under the impression that he was providing his smart goals to us. So
>> no, I mean I I was I when we originally did the contract, I was like, we're going to have to come up with smart goals, so get prepared. So I'm I'm assuming nobody brought smart goals. No, because like I said, typically with smart goals, you provide your own smart goals of this is what I'm going to do.
>> We didn't understand. >> I brought it up at the last meeting. I said, "Bring smart goals." I mean, why would >> Okay. Well, it's pretty clear that it wasn't communicated that way if no one brought them. Why why would you not make smart goals on >> smart goal example that you can um share or have the have
the city have Miss Hodgeges share with the rest of the commissioners but we know an example of what you're looking at and we can actually tag team on developing a couple of key discernable objective smart goals for the city
manager. He literally has five bosses, the five of us on the commission. uh we all need to have inputs here, but we all need to collaborate and it needs to be something ob direct and objective that he can actually accomplish. So rather than have him play monkey in the middle
administratively, Miss Hodgeges, would you do that for us? >> Happy to. >> Thank you, ma'am. So, we'll have the assistant city manager send that out and we will defer that uh CJ will defer that to our next meeting, ma'am. Thank you for that.
All right. So that gets us to number 23, rules of decor and workshop feedback and direction to staff. >> So just to clarify, city manager, you're just looking for overall feedback. >> So I think we got that from the workshop, but I wanted to put an item on the agenda just in case, but I think everybody got their direction from the
workshop and that's someone has anything to add that has came up since now and then. Um I believe Mr. Jackson and Commissioner War have everything they need to continue forward with that. >> [snorts] >> I think Commissioner Warick did an excellent job. Uh he had the 85%
solution. I might have added another 5%. Bernie Thompson had a great uh issue with the whole clarification of the sergeant-at-arms. Um city man or city attorney is now going to look at it. So I think we have a pretty much a 95% plus solution uh
with minor refinement to happen. We'll go from there. That's what teamwork and collaboration supposed to be like. and [clears throat] we did it today. So, good on us. All right, we're now to public commentary number 24. Um, so I
believe a lot of these folks have already gone, but I will go through. I know, for example, Bernie Thompson is gone. Mr. Basher. Yeah. All good. Would you like to chair your Nope. >> Are you good? >> I'm fine. I'm good. I'm good. So, first
off, I would like to say in response to what Mr. Vinch said about me earlier not accomplishing anything, not doing anything and my position. I never will have a problem if somebody proves me wrong. If he proves me wrong that this lawsuit and the settlement was good for
the city, fantastic. I applaud him and I applaud his efforts. If it's turns what I perceive as a negative into a positive, I'm very for it. I will never hold that against somebody and I'll never hold a position that I have that is wrong that I feel is wrong when
presented with other information. That said, on to what I was really going to talk about is are these meetings. They're long. They're drawn out. The the packet was 322 pages long for this meeting. Some of this stuff we may need to pull out and do a workshop on. I know
it's more effort for y'all, but I feel like sometimes we rush through these items because we're exhausted by the end of the meeting. Um, I don't want that to happen. I think we need to address it a little bit better. Um, you can't just delete the items because you've got a
lot to do, a lot of things to get done. But at the end of the day, there's probably a better way to do it than at a single meeting when you've got sometimes you got a long agenda and they're really simple items, sometimes they're not. But you need to look at those agendas and pull some stuff out for some special meetings or something like that. Y'all
been here since 3:00. It's going on what? 7:30 right now. Maybe 8:00. >> 8:00. That's a long time and and you get fuzzy after a while. I just think that you may need to pull some of that stuff out and do some workshops ahead of time or go back to premeings. I know that's
not a popular opinion, but that's something that I think should be considered. Not to mention that um we're making $3.51 an hour. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, thank you, Mr. Basher. And that's a fair point, city manager. That's a takeaway for us is we need to do we as a
team need to do a better job. And bad on me for not pushing back on this. But sometimes when we know we're going to have some really controversial or really in-depth discussion things, we should have probably cleared the deck on some of this um and pushed it to the next
meeting. Or if we get to a point where you really need a lot from us, maybe we need to, not that we need to have a meeting every week, but maybe we need to set up and have a special kind of once a quarter or twice a year kind of house clearing event where you got a lot of
stuff we need to do. We do for stuff that's not necessarily controversial at all, like passing resolutions to purchase police cars and stuff like that. Maybe we can do that in a separate public special commission meeting versus just the every other week one. So we
don't just end up to Johnny's point, five hours later, here we are just shot, [clears throat] right? Something to think about. Miss Garmin, did you want to come up, ma'am? Oh, yeah. Go ahead.
What I'm going to speak about is is controversial. I have a lot of very dear friends that I love dearly that do not like the flock cameras, but I like them. I have a lot of friends who are police officers.
Um, block cameras have helped catch a lot of criminals. I work really big in with the child abduction and it has helped save a lot of children's lives. So I know every you
know a lot of people are against it and have some of them have tried to sway me on that but you know me I'm I'm pretty I think for myself and I just want to thank you for having
them in Land Haven. I'm probably one of the few that, but I have a lot of friends as well in Atlanta and the other bigger cities that have said it has saved a lot of lives and with as many
people that are coming to our area, I think block cameras is a great idea and I appreciate you guys having them here. That's just for me. I want to say thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Garmin.
Mr. David Wagner. >> Good evening, sir. Thank you. I am David Wagner, US Air Force retired 6 and my wife Karen, 1506 Illinois Sillino Avenue. We've lived here taxpaying law-abiding homeowners since 2005. 21 years. I'm
retired, decorated, technically partially disabled veteran, elderly, and a pillar of my neighborhood. I'm nicknamed the good Samaritan by many on our street who know who I am. But not by a few questionable new people in the area who throw around trespass orders like candy at a parade. I really want to
read the national anthem, the pledge of allegiance and 10 bill of rights in this three minutes, but I can't have time. For six years, starting February 19 and 20, 2020, I have been persecuted here by a false accusation alleging I did child enticement as I was falsely accused by some basketball kids and parents at a
park who committed a federal perjury lie. After my dad recently died in 2019, I was out playing tennis in that park to pick out just one good record. Afterwards was my 30th anniversary of my form enlistment. I was feeling happy and asked to join in with basketball game
and a progress nearby. I was declined by what was actually a young teenage boy in a rude manner looked down at the ground like I'm guess I'm doing right now. I was shocked by him only looking down. So I simply in defense said I mean no harm. I was a good local guy fixed broke stuff at the park. He said no again as if I
still wanted to play. I did not want to play. I had no intention of playing anymore at him. So I simply just walked out the gate and sat down in my car and left. I was nervous because I didn't know why he treated me that way after 15 years. Anyway, I backed out, drove home,
no matter what false lies he later told. Um, all I did is I walked away and they say I allegedly verbally entice him, if you can believe this, to the trunk of my car, saying, "Come on over to my car and get some games and come to my house in a public place across the street from his
parents. Everyone in town knows me over there and they know our dog and they know my wife." Anyway, no vet would risk his pension, his house, his wife, his reputation for the stupid accusation that somehow the police took hookline and sinker. I don't know why they do that to us vets, but anyway, they were
abrupt and they trespassed me over the phone the next day, screaming at me, saying I have mental problems and they never once checked my ID and never once asked my name or said my name. They denied my complete bill of rights to treat me unhuman and slammed the phone down and I called the manager. Of course, back then, no one's going to
return your call. The real predators are the slanders, abrupt cops, and ethical former city stewards. Even a state representative I didn't mention to when he was campaigning, and even a fellow here that I thought was going to help me, but anyway. No, the new stewards we
have now, I'm asking for your help. Um, please, um, the bill of the Bill of Rights, vets and elderly, I hope means something to you all. Um, please don't let the name Haven be misbehaving. God says, "Let my people
go." So, please let me go. Let me have my rights back to the park. My wife has had a stroke. She's has leg swelling. We don't walk for 6 years. We had a dalmation. >> Thank you, sir. >> Um, I just want to say on behalf of the military
and um, Jesus, we love you and and thank you for all that you do, our citizens. We just hope you return the favor to us. Thank >> Thank you, sir. Miss Maryanne Drew >> for consolidate with the Bay County
Animal Shelter which is at the top five top it's number five in the state for euthanasia and if that happens there's going to be more euthanasia there's going to be more dumping and um at Linhaven Animal
Shelter gives animals a fair shake and I just hope that you you that you keep the children and you keep the animals at priority when you make your cuts. >> Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Miss Drew. I'll
tell you, I love your shirt. The uh rescue is the best breed. I literally have five dogs and eight cats and every one of them are rescued from two local rescues here. Um, we the consolidation is a possibility,
but nothing has been approved and I completely understand your concerns on the like kill rates versus the no kill. I'm totally there with you. Um, all we ask the commission or the staff to put all options on the table for us to look
at. Just because something is evaluated doesn't mean it's going to happen. And I can tell you I'm very much keenly aware of your concern there. City manager and I actually had a dis a rather in-depth discussion about it this afternoon. Um
we hear you. We hear the rescues. I please know I'm a very avid animal lover. Everybody up here loves animals. We'll see what happens. But that is not something that I'm personally I anticipate supporting. I I just I can't.
But we will we'll see where there's going to be a lot of tough budget decisions that come out. Um and there's a there's a lot of things in the mix. But I can tell you that is the very last thing I have any interest in doing is
put taking our almost no kill shelter and putting them into a very high kill shelter where it's just it's not something I'm interested in doing at all. Period. That in the story. So, please know you're heard and that is something that we'll be looking at very,
very hard and we'll see where everything falls. It's one of many, many pieces of a budgetary puzzle, but please know it is very important. Thank you for coming. And I can tell you were very nervous, but I really appreciate you coming up and speaking.
Most people would rather take a beating than come up and stand there and publicly talk. Now, we got a few folks like Mr. Basher who will gladly come up and talk half a dozen times a night, but there are a lot of folks like you and thank you for coming. >> Yes, ma'am. Miss Day.
[laughter] >> Well, I got to hear. >> Yes. I was going to get back to this annexation. I'm telling you, this is a bothersome to me. Please listen to me. Okay. The um annexation have Chris to
make you a complete list of all enclaves and have him to tell you exactly what has to be run to each enclave. That'll be the best way to keep up with
this. Then you're going to know how much money you are spending. Just make sure it's all on a piece of paper and you keep it beside your heart, close to your heart because this is a danger and I see it happening and I
don't know if he said anything to you about how about Bay Aid Bay Drive. Is that Bay Drive? I think it is. I keep hearing something about annexation going down to College Point. Is that correct? On the bay. Have you heard anything
about that? Okay. Well, keep that in the back of your mind because there could be a list there floating somewhere. So, just make sure that the CRA director, I don't know where he happens to be at this time, but I'm going to pick on the
CRA director for a bit. There's a lot of money that you all need to be keeping up with with this CRA, this street. What is it? Streetcape or whatever you're talking about. This is a
a selling program. This is not helping pavement and repairs, things like that. This is to sell and bring people in. That's not what we need right now. because I understand there's
a lot of things going on with finances. I mean, somebody gets up and talking about the animal shelter and then we're going to do this and do that. Well, you all make sure you understand what's coming through the city manager. You make sure what these negotiations happen to be. He should be printing it
out and you should be having it right in front of you. And that's all I'm going to say, but I will be keeping up with it. And I don't I do know where they're at. So, I hope you find out where they're at. Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Miss Day. I've got a Miss
Wendy Bass. Is she still with us tonight? Okay. Thank you, M. I have a Daniel Morris. We have a Mr. Daniel Morris with us
still. Okay. Amanda Butram. All right. Well, that's everybody on the sign up list. Is there anyone else that would like a public commentary tonight? Come on up, ma'am. Okay. This is the real reason I came
tonight. Um, last night, um, I saw in the rescues that I followed that you guys were talking about the animal shelter here in Linhaven. And as is truly the only reason I came tonight, um, was that I don't, it's such a bad idea. I've I've called the Bayone. I've
followed different people that have had their animals taken and tried to get from them that have had to go to court because they said they're very dangerous animals. Um, I don't understand Bayone. This is not where I'm originally from. I'm from North Dakota, Fargo, and our shelters there are awesome. They have
not put an animal to sleep in three or four years because of the shelters, the TNR programs that they have there. I I'm mystified at how people treat animals here in Florida, in Bay County. Um the police don't show up when the rescues call and say that animals are being
abused. Um people treat their animals like their property. They they ditch them. They they treat them. They they hunt them down. Um I live over by Misty Lane and they trap them. Six, seven, eight cats at a time. These animals
didn't ask to be treated that way. They are the They just want to be loved. And I just I don't understand the people here in Florida. I see how they're treated all over this state. I see Dantis saying, "Hey, we're going to make it a felony,
but the cops won't do anything about it." And Bay County just seems to be horrible about it. they just don't care. So, um I just ask that you don't do it. The children and the animals, they are the weakest that we have and they need to be protected. Um I unfortunately have
not been to Linhaven Animal Shelter, but I will start volunteering. When I was based at Langley Air Force Base, I used to go and volunteer every Monday opening up a shelter. We used to get Air Force people that would come over and volunteer their time because at that point in time, volunteering mattered.
Um, I don't think it matters as much anymore with the new leadership that we have in the Department of War, but it's something that we could look at for the things with the raiders, with the things with the animals to sleep. Please do whatever is possible. We can do
fundraisers. We can do whatever. Just please don't give them to be home. >> Thank you, ma'am. All right. Anyone else tonight? If not, y'all have uh y'all have ridden the wave with us for three hours and 15
minutes. This has been a long one, but um everyone has been respectful and cordial and been heard and I appreciate y'all riding this wave with us from start to finish. Thank you so much. Um that's that's all I can say about public
commentary. Last call for public commentary before we move on. All right, so next mayor's report. Uh, I think I've talked enough tonight. I really appreciate the the commission tonight on the decorum. I think we've got a much better product revised moving
forward. Um, as I have told y'all many times before, we have some tough decisions and we have some tough stuff to deal with financially and budget wise. But the better we work together as a team, the more we communicate, the more transparent, the more respectful we
are to each other. We realize there are going to be some sacred cows. There are going to be some things that are not going to be hard to to let go of and but there are certain things worth fighting for and that's where the give and take. This is where
local sausage making is. We can disagree without being disagreeable. And the vast majority of the good people here in Linhaven are like that. And we'll work through it. Uh, and I hope we come out stronger at the end of the day. Even if we don't get everything we want, we walk
out going, "Well, that was a fair fight. Here's the decision we're at. Here's what we're going to do." Um, and we're going to go forward from there as a team, as a community. It's not going to be easy. It's not going to be fun. And anybody that tells you it is is lying to you.
But we'll get through it together. We have to. And the bad thing about it is if the homestead exemption uh thing passes in November, um we're looking at on top of our lean trying to get over the debt and the post Michael
situation that we're in now. Uh we'll be looking at a possible 40 45% cut in the next year's lean budget. So even more fun. So, um, this is going to be definitely multiple budget cycles and
we're in for a ride, but we're in it together and we're all in this canoe together. It's called Linhaven. So, with that, uh, Commissioner Perno, I'll start with you on my left, sir, and we'll move forward to the right, uh, to Commissioner Tinder. >> I have nothing to report other than
thank you to all the citizens who who care enough about the city to be here. Thank you to our city staff, all our team members in the city, our first responders, and our military. That's my [clears throat] report. >> Thank you, sir. Commissioner Peebles.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Uh not I'm not going to take too too much time, but I do want to make a few announcements. On Friday, July 24th, I'm going to be hosting a kids government day here in the chambers.
It's completely free. I'm providing the material. Um, so if you know any children that want to learn about local government, bring them in. Hopefully they'll uh learn something. I know for myself, I didn't really appreciate local
government until I was old enough to vote. So, I'm hoping that with um getting our future leaders integrated into what local politics is, we'll help them gain a better appreciation of local politics and how it it affects their everyday
life completely free. Basically, the idea is they'll come in um I'll have a little slideshow. I'll explain what the commission is, the mayor, what staff, all the different roles of the city manager and let them ask questions. At the end, we'll have a little election
for them. They'll rather than electing a person because that can get a little contentious. We'll let them vote on what their favorite park is or something like that, they'll I'll let they'll get to fill out a little ballot. We'll count the ballots real time, tell let them
know how who won, show them how that process works. I believe uh one of my neighbors is also providing um a craft for them to do as well. So, it's free to the public. If you know any kids
that want to learn about local government, it's going to be on Friday the 24th at 9:00 a.m. right here. Next thing, uh my I'm going to start up the coffee with commissioner again. So, if you want to come meet with me, I'm going
to be at uh Wild Routt on the 25th at 8 a.m. So, if you have any concerns or anything that you haven't addressed with me yet or you prefer a one-on-one setting better than here or prefer to talk to me one-on-one, then send an email, whatever, I'll be happy to have
some coffee with you and and chat. All right, that's all I have. Thanks. >> Thank you, sir. Commissioner Ward. >> [snorts] >> So, the only thing I have is uh I had a post that I put out about um you
guys probably heard about the murder that happened came in on Linhaven. They caught him and I put in there about license plate readers. They that was a useful tool to to f um find them and it really hit close to home for me because it uh they caught them in my
neighborhood. So, I got a lot of push back from Washington's at live. I got push back from people in the community about the post. So I decided to uh do u time with the commissioner that I've done in the past and so kind of turned into time with the commissioner to come
talk about whatever to let's talk about flock. So anybody interested in coming it's going to be on the 25th of July um at Sunny's barbecue. I reserve the back room there. So uh if a good amount of people show up uh should be plenty of
room. So, come out and we'll have a discussion. I'm sorry. 11:15 at uh Sunny's Barbecue. And I think that's all I have. >> Thank you, sir. Commissioner Tinder.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Um I think we had a great group tonight. I'm excited. I mean, more people were here for causes that they believe in. I hope we the city can become more involved with the Lyn Haven Raiders.
Um, and with all the donations that flew around the room, it sounded like we're well on our way to keep that to keep that alive. Um, I have I have some questions for Kiki.
Gosh, I hate that you had to that you're at the end. Um, no, I'm going to quit there. That's basically um it's been a great meeting I thought and I brought lunch so I'm full.
[laughter] Thanks. >> Do you want to sidebar with Miss Roman after the meeting? >> Uh well actually no publicly I'd like for you to look up a couple of um things that we wrote. >> Certainly. >> Uh Panhandle Engineering ECSC
CF Enterprises and the fleet management. I I have copies here for you if you like. >> Okay. >> So, let me see if I can remember all of them. Panhandle is a number of different projects. So, I'll give you copies for you to review. >> It was $40,290.
Panhandle engineering. >> I've got $92,4921. >> Okay. >> But again, I'll give you copies. Um uh BCL That was for Tennessee Avenue Sidewalk.
>> Um, no. Who is that? >> BCL, I'm sorry. For >> No, it was ECSC 443,713. >> Oh, this is on the warrant list that I sent you today. >> Finance finance things. >> Is that the one that went today?
>> The email that I sent you today. I I'll have to address that offline. >> ECS is the 10th Street Project. >> Yes. Okay. But is that just this month they paid him 400? >> Yes, ma'am. That that's the latest um payout
>> and that's over in August, right? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks. I'll get you the other ones. Uh landscaping, but that could go with the Linhaven Raiders. I think we should get those kids out there mowing the
yard. [snorts] Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, ma'am. City manager. >> So, the the conversation that happened tonight, that's going to be one of many, and they are not going to get any easier and any better. Um, we have lots to
discuss in the next couple of months with our budget. Um, we still have a deficit we still have to work through. Um, we have the consolidation resolution that you all approved. uh have been having our meetings with that um to talk about animal control and public safety
and all of the other aspects involved with that. Um so we will be bringing those numbers to the commission um and the commission will have to make a decision on how to move forward with that with the cost savings. Um or if not to move forward with cost savings um how do we fund it? Um raising the millage
rate, dipping into reserves until there are no reserves. Uh but that is a more of the tough conversations that will come. Public works uh staff has been working to implement the mobile work order app. Um got a few of the users on it. They
had a training and making progress with that. The AMI program is underway for the the meters. Our inventory has been delivered. You just about can't move in the utilities warehouse. There's so many meters and transmitters over there. Um and the contractor will begin work soon
on the installations. Adult summer summer summer pickleball league registration is now open. It's $120 per team. We got the irrigation issues fixed at the sports complex. The special Olympics are we'll rent Kinsaw field uh 1 hour every Sunday from 3:00
to 4:00 p.m. We've got two weeks left of our fall ball registrations with many of those filling up are filled up already. The MLB youth pitch hit and run event is this Thursday. We've got basketball tournament scheduled in the gym July 18th and 19th and 25th and 26th and a
softball tournament at um the sports complex on July 25th. So, lots going on with the summertime sports leagues and Reynolds. And then any other questions for Miss Roman from the checklist that's in your packet? The $2,000 that you asked me about for
panhandle engineering that was in the email that I sent you today, that is for design work for James Rogers Park. Speaking of James Rogers, we did receive those bids. We will be bringing those to the commission next meeting for you all to make a decision on to award not award
a portion um as well as the Ford Ohio Avenue streetscape project that will come to you all the next meeting as well. The other one that I wanted to ask you was it was $810 to CF Enterprises. That's they they make rubber stamps. I
can't imagine we did $800 with the rubber stamps. >> CF Enterprises. >> Oh, they're on Beck Avenue. I used to work. >> I'll have to look it up. >> I think that's who does our badges. >> Oh, >> the the name tags. >> Yeah, they do name tags, too. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think that's the sticker that's on the back of our name tags, but we'll get you in. I'll look it up. >> Thanks. >> All right. Last but not least, uh, is our proverbial caboose here, Mr. Rob Jackson. Any city attorney report tonight, sir?
>> Report, sir. >> Thank you, sir. All right, y'all. For the good of the order, y'all have a good night. Thank you for being with