Calling calling our meeting to order at 5:30 p.m. This time we'll have the invocation and pledge of allegiance by Pastor Brad Friday. [snorts] Let us pray. Father God, we thank you for another day
that you've given us. Thanking you for your loving kindness and grace. Father, we thank you for this season in which we have an opportunity to celebrate your son's birth. And Father, we ask, oh Lord, that you bless us during this season that we might turn unto you, God,
that you might per permeate our hearts and penetrate our hearts, God, that we might be the men and women that you want us to be. Father, I ask that you bless this this evening, that you bless this commission, God, that your divine intervention would be here, that you might be glorified by the things that's
done and the things that's said. In the name of your son, Jesus, I pray. Amen. >> Aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. This time we have a presentation by destination PC. >> Mr. Lightfoot, is this the >> Sorry. Mayor, commissioners, and members of the community. Thank you so much for having me today. My name is Jennifer Vigil. I'm
the president and CEO of Destination Panama City. I was asked by my board to come here and give a little bit of information because we've gotten a number of questions over the years and I think they wanted and intended for this to be a opportunity to extend an olive
branch and open a door in case there's anything that we can help you with in the future. uh tourist development and building sustainable growth for small communities is really what tourism is about. Um tourism, as you all know, is the number
one economic driver in Florida. Uh for small businesses in particular, uh for Panama City, none of the small businesses in the downtown or the St. Andrews district would be able to survive without the influx of exterior dollars that we have. And when we say
tourism development, we call it an economic driver because it's new money coming into a community. It's not us and our friends and neighbors spending our own paychecks and recycling the same money in a community. It's actually having visitors come in, leave their
money, and return to their homes and not use our essential services and resources. Uh the value of tourism, as I said, acts as an economic engine, but it also helps build community identity. If any of you have been here for more than a dozen years, uh you will remember when
downtown Panama City was a place that you generally did not want to visit. Today, Panama City downtown is thriving. We have vibrant businesses. It's busy every single weekend. Most evenings, there's family-friendly things for people to do, not just our locals, but
also our visitors. It's a very good balance of community and travelers that we have in the downtown district and in the St. Andrews district. So tourist development tax is TDT. Tourist development tax is visitor
funded. That means no locals pay into that tax. It is only taxed on short-term rentals. Short-term rentals as defined by the Florida statutes are any rental any lodging rental that is longer or I'm sorry, shorter than 6 months. So most of
the time you're going to see residential rentals at either like 7 months or 12 months. And that's the reason why so that they don't end up having to pay the tourist development tax. Uh for Panama City, we generate just under $2 million a year with the number of lodging
partners that we have. As you might wonder, how does that relate to Linhaven? Because you have only one hotel. Your one hotel has 69 rooms. Would any of you like to venture a quick guess on how many VRBOs you have in the
community of Linhaven? There's between 50 and 80 active at all times from the research I've done over the last year. So with 69 rooms at the one hotel and somewhere between 50 and 80 in VBOS's, you're looking at revenue
that comes into the city of Linhaven already from visitors of over $2 million a year. That's at a 50% occupancy rate. So pretty low. And that's also at a sub $100 a night room night, which is pretty
low. So, we do our numbers very conservatively. What that means for the city of Linhaven is if you had a tourist development taxing district, the VBOS's and hotel partners in your district would generate somewhere between 75,000
and $100,000 annually. Is that enough to run a TDC? No. Um, it's expensive. Marketing is extremely expensive. That's about enough money to put one full page ad in Southern Living per year. Um, how it
benefits local communities. We can use that money and leverage those things to create community identity, support events, things like that. It's a funding mechanism for growth um 100%. Uh, the things that you can do with TDT
dollars are very strictly restricted. We're covered by chapter uh 125.014. 014 of the Florida statute. We are allowed to promote local business to attract more visitors. We're allowed to preserve community heritage through historical and cultural and supporting the local
arts. We support events through a program event assistance program and uh some infrastructure projects when it relates to residents and tourists. One of the things that we've been working on for a couple of years now is a living
shoreline project that health helps to improve the health of St. Andrews Bay which is one of our biggest assets as you know um what TDT funds cannot do they can't pay for just anything they can't pay for police they can't pay for uh portaotties I usually tell people the
general rule of thumb when it comes to tourist development taxes is if I can take a picture of it and use it in advertising then it's generally something that I can fund. So, an event, [clears throat] um, marketing, if I go out to eat at a
restaurant, uh, some of your sports fields, you have a lot going on. You have a lot of improvements coming to your waterfront districts. Um, a big thing for especially coastal communities is um the water, the active waterfront lifestyle. And that's something that you
really should for health reasons alone be promoting for citizens as well as travelers. And the more ecoourrists you can have, the more sustainable your tourism base is. They really respect the community and the environment that they're going to visit.
This is a map of all of the VRBOs and Airbnbs that exist east of Haway Bridge. Um, so as you can see, there's quite a few and they generally congregate around the waterfronts. Uh this helps to uh
promote a healthy more active lifestyle and honestly uh it attracts a kind of travelers that stay longer and spend more money. Uh one of the things that we like to talk about in tourism is personas. Uh we don't have the same
visitors that come to Panama City Beach. We don't have the same visitors that go to Mexico Beach. Uh, generally I like to refer to Panama City, greater Panama City area as the thinking man's game, not the drinking man's game. So, it's a lot of Panama City Symphony, Panama City
Music Association, uh, a lot of events like Panama City Songwriters Festival, the Flux Arts Festival, which is very familyfriendly, and we have the Boat Parade of Lights coming up this weekend, which has Hotel Indigo 100% sold out for this weekend.
Hope to see you all there. The economic ripple effect of tourism is that it does promote small local businesses. Uh we operate on big brother data like so many other things. Uh everything if you have a cell phone and you're walking around with one of these,
I've probably picked up your data at some point. If you pay with a debit card or a credit card, we've definitely picked up your data at some point if you've done any kind of shopping in the Panama City area. So, um, what that allows us to do is really meet the
traveler where they're at. So, the best example I can give is, have you ever spoken to somebody about um getting a new vacuum and then all of a sudden you start seeing ads on your phone for vacuums? So, big brother data is there.
Uh, your Alexa probably does listen. Um, we don't get that kind of information. We get very top tier. So, it's demographic information. It's not going to say John Smith went to Walmart and spent money on this. It's going to say
a 40 to 55year-old man visited Walmart and bought retail goods or bought health and beauty aids or automotive things. Um, so it's going to be more top tier. We're really trying to make sure that the marketing we do is
targeted towards the right people. Establishing a tourist development taxing district in Florida. This is really the reason why I'm here today. You have one hotel uh here in Linhaven, but that hotel has routinely called my office and Ben's office for a number of
years because we're really good at our jobs and we do put heads in beds for our hotel years. Um your lodging partner reached out because they wanted to join destination Panama City. I wish it worked that way. It doesn't. The Florida
statutes require that your citizenship must approve a tourist development taxing district. And you're in a unique position because you're already adjacent to a tourist development taxing district. Most counties only have one tourist development taxing district. In
Bay County, we already have three. My best recommendation if you did decide to go forward would be to educate your citizens so that they understand this is not a tax that they pay but it does contribute to their quality of life. Um and then I would recommend joining an
existing district. Uh shared resources maximize and leverage what you have. Um tourists do not know the difference between they don't know a municipal boundary. They don't know whether they're in Linhaven or they're in Callaway or they're in Panama City or if
they're in Panama City Beach. They know they're in Northwest Florida. So really, a rising tide floats all boats in those situations. And it also allows character to remain intact. Just because you partner with others doesn't mean that
you lose the identity of what you have and what you're building in your own community. A really good example of this is the Northwest Florida Beaches Coalition. We were formed after the BP oil spill. We make up the eight affected counties of uh from the BP oil spill.
And we very recently made the news because we got uh in conjunction with Visit Florida got a $10.5 million um grant for tourism to promote as a region. So when we work together, we promote Northwest Florida. When we work
individually, we promote our individual districts. So, um, another one is that's a good example. I used to be the tourism director for Visit South Walton, and there are 16 beautiful beaches in South Walton, but they all work together to
promote the area collectively. Uh, tourism as community identity is very important because it relies on your citizens to help shape the story that you want to tell. Marketing is very much about placemaking and storytelling. The best form of marketing is when your
friend tells you that something is good. It's either a good product or a good deal or a great vacation. So, what we're always trying to do is tell the destination ambassadors story and that those are your own citizens. Um, I don't think that uh I always tell everyone
that we have to be very proud of the community that we live in because you've never heard someone say, "Oh, my community is the worst." and then put it on your list of places to go. So, and when you work together as a tourism community, you really raise the level of
pride. We did a study in 2014 relating to what the sentiment of citizens were when it came to Panama City and in large part the sentiment was negative. um after tourism the sentiment has changed from orange to green which
means it's a very much better sentiment from the citizens that we have. So uh it really is community pride building and it gives everyone a chance to invest in their community whether it be opening their own small business or just being a champion of the community.
Tourism also helps us build a sa sustainable tomorrow. I already mentioned the um living shoreline project that we have in the works. Another thing that we have is the Panama City oyster trail. Not sure if you're aware, but the oysters are the canary of
the bay. So, anytime you have a healthy whed, you have a healthy oyster bed. So, we always try to talk to people about the importance of keeping the bay healthy so that we can maintain the Panama City Oyster Trail. To keep the conversation going, you can
email me at jenniferestinationpan city.com. You can call me at that cell phone number or at my office. I will leave my business cards up here. I left a visitors guide so you can see the product of our work for each one of you. And if you have any more if you have any
questions right now, I'm happy to answer them. >> Thank you for your presentation. I know it's something that Ben has discussed um as we talked about economic development over the past few years. um him and I have discussed it several times especially um with the wing gate in you
know reaching out and wanting to know how can Linhaven become a part of the TDC in order that um he might be able to benefit or the community benefits um from what you all are doing. Um I guess one of my questions would be if at some point we decide to become a part of the
uh Panama City destination or uh how would that how would that process work? I understand now there are certain numbers of individuals that are on the board per se. Would someone have to roll off or would you just add another person to that? Um, how would that that work?
>> So, I've given this speech at all of the other municipalities that are east of uh Hathaway Bridge as well and realistically um the way the state statute reads, only the largest municipality in the district gets seats
on the board. And then there's one uh county commissioner seat. When destination Panama City was established, um it was heavily debated. Um it actually went to referendum before referendums were required. So the Chamber of Commerce uh was the advocacy
arm. Um and the way that Destination Panama City came to be, if you don't know, um stores were moving out of the mall. They were abandoning 23rd Street. Downtown was a ghost town and St. Andrews was uh pretty sparse in terms of
economic uh activity as well. So they turned to Carol Roberts, the former director of the Chamber of Commerce, and tasked her with finding out why Panama City was the only city in Northwest Florida that had a negative population growth and why our businesses were not
doing well. Um east of Hathaway Bridge was suffering. So what Carol found out was we were the largest incorporated city in the state of Florida that did not have a tourist development taxing district which meant that we didn't have that revenue stream to promote and
market the destination that in turn helps the small businesses and the hotelers and brings travelers and external money in. Um they made that a white paper advocate uh advocacy point for the chamber of commerce that year. They educated the citizens of Panama
City. It went to a binding referendum. Only counties can create tourist development taxing districts. So Panama City had to show Bay County that they their citizens wanted a tourist development taxing district. Once the numbers came in and the citizens of
Panama City actually heavily supported I think it was very close to 70% favorability for the creation of destination Panama City, they went to Bay County and Bay County then passed the ordinance that would create destination Panama City. Years ago when
you're very proactive GM from uh Windgate started reaching out, we kind of saw the writing on the wall that the smaller communities on the east side of the bridge would likely have to band together. So, we did go ahead uh proactively and purchase URLs like the
greater Panama City area, very similar to how Fort Lauderdale does it, the greater Lauderdale area. Um really, uh it has to be collaborative. um and communities, you will have to probably work with something like the Chamber of Commerce
to educate your citizens and help them get uh the information that they need um to understand that it really is not a citizen paid tax that it's new money coming in and it really helps uh promote the events and things like that. In
terms of what the board structure looks like, it we do have seats on our board that are hotel seats. We have seats on our board that are um non-lodging tourism partners. So either restaurant uh retail or excursionbased seats and
those of course would be open to anybody that would be in the district that was part of the tourism industry. >> Any other questions? >> Yes. So theoretically if we this money
could come to directly to Linhaven for us or is it for the whole everybody like collaboratively? >> No sir. So cities don't have control only counties have control over tourist development tax dollars. >> Okay. um the funds at the way that we
operate, the county clerk of court collects all of the tourist development taxes that are collected by the Airbnbs and by the hotel years. We are reimbursement based. So we have an annual contract with Bay County that says they estimate the revenue from
those uh lodging partners to be x amount. We have to create a budget and a program of work that is approved first by the destination Panama City Board, second by the Bay County Tourist Development Council, and then third by the Bay County Commission. Now, does
input come into play? Absolutely. Um, some of the questions that have been asked in the other communities are, well, if for example, $100,000 is raised in with Linhaven collections, what of
that would go back to Linhaven? And I would say that you could very much um advocate for a specific amount of money to be uh spent on events. Does that mean it would be a Linhaven
event? No. Our event assistance program, I mean city of Linhaven event when I say that. So let's say just a citizen of Linhaven decides that they want to put a concert in the park and it's going to be a ticketed concert and they're going to partner with your Windgate Hotel. they
can apply for those funds through the event assistance program. Um, and all we would have to do is really make sure that a certain portion of funds went towards events in Linhaven for that particular year. But things that your
local business owners get automatically just from being a part of destination Panama City is being on the website, having us come in and get videography and still images for promotion and marketing, having us pitch them on
earned media, and uh really making the world aware that Linhaven is here. So, there's a lot that comes into play that doesn't include dollars. There's a lot of effort that comes into play. If you look, every single tourism business that
we have in Panama City is listed in the visitors guide in front of you. They're all listed on the website. We promote events that are in your district now even though you're not part of our district because again travelers don't know
that there's a difference between Linhaven and Panama City somewhere on Highway 77. If it's a if it's an event that would be of interest to travelers visiting Panama City hotels, we
generally put it on our website anyway. All right. Other questions? I have a lot of other questions, but I'd uh I'd like to be able to sit down and just talk with you if that's okay. >> Yeah. >> Thanks. >> Available anytime.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Right. This time we have public commentary Dave Lowry. [clears throat] Good evening commissioners. Uh tonight I'd like to touch upon the critical
importance of local governance transparency because we are the closest thing to the individual citizen. Local governments arguably have the most significant day-to-day impact on the public at large due to the provision of many core services that quality of life gamut from
public safety to street maintenance to running water to sewage systems. Because of this, key decisions on how our collective tax dollars are used for the betterment of the entire community must not be made in any sort of administrative vacuum. Rather, all policy and resourcing
decisions should be made in a transparent, deliberate, and objective manner where citizen participation is not only possible but also encouraged. Timely posting of scheduled public meetings as well as live streaming go a long way to facilitate such efforts.
Haven does a real good job of that. One key or once key decisions are made, then it is incumbent upon our city leadership to communicate those finalized decisions in plain spoken language. Be willing to answer the tough questions on the how and why those final decisions were made the way they were. Sometimes tough
decisions can be uncomfortable to have, but they are essential for the public to understand the why spell the potential rumor mills and misunderstandings. When local governance is conducted in a transparent manner, three things happen. One, public trust first. While
individual citizens are unlikely to agree with every decision you make, if they can hear the public policy making process from start to finish, they can see the data. They can hear the debate, they are much more likely to walk away with a conclusion that the final outcome
was objective and fair. Second, consistent transparency vastly improves the overall quality of our city's collective decision-making functions. When all relevant considerations are publicly known, members of the community can identify potential blind spots and even raise concerns that the city's own
subject matter experts may have missed. Third, full transparency goes a long way in protecting both the public at large and the city of Linhaven itself. What I mean by this is clear records, open meetings, and votes make it harder for blatant favoritism, the misuse of funds, or the abuse of author authority to
occur when the bright spotlight is shining in the sunshine. In closing, city government's transparency is not something that happens in a vacuum, but rather something that must happen in full view of our citizens who desire to observe, collaborate, discuss, debate,
and learn. Simply put, when local government's transparency efforts are consistent, our community as a whole are stronger for it. Thank you for your service, and thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Rich Walker.
Good evening. Um, I don't understand a few things, so I usually go to the horse's mouth and I contacted uh Nina at the office of elections twice. She's supposed to return my call. She
has not. My questions to her deal with the recall. I want to know right now, this may have been recalled. You can't answer that question. You will not answer that question because you've been told not to answer the questions
asked in public commentary. Let them make their speech and let them go away. So, you don't answer them. And you've proven that over the years. My questions again. Has the mayor been recalled?
Do I get an answer? Okay. When Nina listed on the bay votes is the election of the recall doesn't mention anything else other than the election of recall. That is for the people to decide. They've gone through
the process that has been outlined in state statutes and in the way the commissioner does it. The next thing is to elect why the people make them make the decision whether the mayor is
rejected and removed. If you don't answer the question that he's been removed, why is he here? 1950 when the first contrary to what that you've been told mayor was recalled
he was escorted out. Newspapers reported that no mayor has ever been recalled. That's correct. A lot of social media and and media pro have given you wrong information on the election thing. It says recall
period. doesn't say according to Florida statutes that you're going to elect a mayor to take over for the interim. When it happened in the past, the interim was taken over by the mayor promp. He has full authority of the
mayor. You will be fine and seeing that you're going to try and tonight have city manager in city manager sign. No, no. Mayor is the only one that
signs for this city. Period. That's in the charter. Okay. You then have an election for a mayor. This is where it's incorrect. Mayor
take up the period that this mayor will be gone. However, it's listed as mayor only. He advised we elect a mayor commissioner.
It is erroneously listed on the election thing as mayor. He is a mayor commissioner. >> Thank you. >> He is a commissioner really first and then a mayor. He has to follow the
instructions to the majority. You listed him on the election coming up. >> That's your time. >> 20th. I understand you're listed on the January 20th as mayor.
Christy Maroy, Christy Maroy, Port St. Joe. Um, good evening and happy holidays. I handed out to you all um I was going through my files and I found the this document that uh concerning
uh Vicky Gainers's false 302 about me and others. So, this was the communication of course that I also sent over to Larry Bassford because when you make a false 302 to the FBI, it is a
federal crime. So you all have this. Uh the other thing that I would going to give to the attorney is just concerning again going back through my records and looking at how these meetings have been conducted in the past and some of the
eruptions that have happened outside of the policy where the chair meaning the did not um get control of the room. So, and I wrote as I was sitting back there
seeing the disturbance, I wrote afterwards. I got some um dialogue from the mayor as well. So, I think we really need to look at how things have been done, what they're how
they're being done right now, and the future of the city. Again, this stuff bleeds into other counties and that is a major concern. Um, the last thing that I want to touch
on is I sent the interim city manager and you all a communication about some spent bullet casings that were found in one of your officers foreclosed homes.
I was told originally there was no such item, but there is. Took a picture. Picture was sent to y'all. Um, someone else sent the picture to me. And there are people that very well know that that
whole event with that baggie of spent bullet casings was found in an officer's foreclosed house. That's not appropriate. So, I'd like to know what
this commission is going to do about this situation. Thank you. >> Being Jenkee. >> Good evening. My name is Ben Jenkee. I live on 10th Street here in Linhaven. I am here in front of the city
commission tonight to respond to a comment Mr. Walker made at the last CRA meeting about my national origin. Um I quote, "The third one wasn't even an American." Uh he was referring to me as a city's third CRA director.
I'm addressing Mr. Walker's comment clearly and directly so that there is no misunderstanding. questioning my citizenship status or implying that I do not belong here is inappropriate and has no place in this
setting. By the way, this is the second or third time that Mr. Walker made such a derogatory comment about my national origin in a public environment. I serve this city as a professional
public employee. My role is to support the commission, implement city policies, and serve every resident regardless of background, status, or belief, with fairness and respect.
My qualifications and my right to to be here are based on my educational background, my professional work experience, and my commitment to this community. Remarks about anyone's nationality,
race, or personal identity are not only irrelevant to the business of this commission. They undermine the inclusive and respectful environment that public service depends on. I take pride in
being part of a city that values diversity, civility, and equal respect for all. I hope we can continue this meeting and future meetings in that same spirit, focusing on the issues that matter to
our residents. Thank you, >> Jody Moore. I want to speak to um a couple of things. Um first of all, um this is something that I've been very vocal about is the um the hiring of the new police chief because this is
actually something that um potentially could affect me as I drive through the city. Um I'm very concerned about the process. Um I've heard some names being floated around. I don't know who the top candidates are. I just don't think there's enough transparency in this whole process. Um, and I know I've think
I've reached out to you or at least it's been on social media that I've, um, expressed my concerns. Um, you know, the bottom line is, um, there might be a new commission soon. Um, we don't know, um, if we're going to have a new city manager soon. I mean, I guess
it's going to not going to be after till the first of the year. It might be Mr. Lightoot. It might not. I just think such an important decision really needs to wait um until there's a full commission and we know who the city manager is going to be. So, um as far as I I know, I think that everything's
clicking along in the police department the way it should. Um so, I would just ask this commission. I know Mr. Lightoot is doing his job to, you know, seek out the candidates. Um I have concerns about this panel that he has who um is helping choose who the candidate is or giving
their input regardless. But I would just ask you as the commission have the power to decide how you want this to go. So it's a very important decision and it's it has repercussions and I've said this before and I just want to keep pushing
this idea on on and this thought on you all. This has repercussions for years to come. Look what happened with uh Vicky Gainor. Look what happened with Ricky Ramy. So there might be Mr. Light foot might have the best candidate in the whole world that might be a really the best person,
but I want you all to look really hard at how this is all happening and who the person chosen is going to be because that person's going to be police chief for a while and you know you don't want to be here 3 years later and get a lawsuit against you because you picked the wrong person. So again, just be very
careful about that. Um I do have to leave. So I also have concerns like Mr. Walker about um the interim city manager signing grant paperwork. I think that if if you um allow that to happen, I understand maybe that will expedite some things. Maybe that's why you're looking
at this, but then you also take away the checks and balances of the whole thing. I think the mayor needs to continue to sign the paperwork. So, that would be um well, number 22 or 23, whatever it is. I
also have a question. If you could please answer this u Mr. Lightfoot in your um report. Um, someone had u posted on our page. They said um the city doesn't have the money to pay the sports officials for the past season. Um, and
you know, I don't want the wrong information to be out there. So, um, I'm assuming maybe it just hasn't happened yet or this has to do with the um the vendors for that. So, if you just want to clear that up, I'd appreciate it or or maybe Kiki can.
Bernie Thompson. >> Hello, I'm Bernie Thompson and um I want to talk about two things. The first is about the items that were found in the police officer's home and the second is about the IT stuff that was returned.
Let's start with the police. Uh, please. I'm very, very, very concerned about the items that were found in a foreclosed home. They were confidential items. They were child protective team exams of
children who were disclosing information. It is against the law for those confidential [snorts] CDs, DVDs, to be anywhere but where they're supposed to be.
The answer we've been given is that the officer Malendon is the records custodian for the police evidence and it's within his scope to have the items and besides I don't want to get too personal even
though it's part of the story even though somebody else got possession of those and the answer is just trying to make the city look bad. Do you hear yourselves? I need a better explanation
how these confidential seat and I've seen the report. Okay, the excuse is they were just copies. Don't worry, the GF Coast Children's Advocacy Center still has the five CPT
exams, copies. The investigation you guys did doesn't say how many copies. Did you ask? No, you didn't ask. the way you are treating this confident
and and Jamie Warick and Sam Peebles you too because of your professions you know what I'm talking about and the fact that you are leaving these open [clears throat] and saying all these conspiracy theories
when you don't answer these questions people have to try to figure it out based on hunches. Now, your investigation report says those were not spent 22. They were actually live 22
ammo. That was live ammo. I need to know which is the truth. Also, switching gears, I suppose, uh, to the IT equipment, the $50,000 nearly of IT equipment that was being stored in a in an IT guy's house.
Please tell us where the five drones went. Please tell us where all of that equipment went. Lastly, did you guys, as it says in the investigation, actually give those CPT exam DVDs back to Officer Mlendon.
Thank you. I think I think I missed you, Mr. Switzer. Evening, Commission. David Switzer on Alexander Drive. If I remember right, there was a young couple that has been here that was complaining about a camera that was facing their property and it
could move and follow people and it was pretty creepy. I'm here this evening to attempt to start an effort to deflock Linhaven in Bay County. If you don't know what Flock is, uh, in the in its early stages, it was just a small company out of Atlanta, and it's grown
into a 7.5 billion dollar company. It's a they call themselves a safety powerhouse, but what they do is they are automatic license plate reader is how they call themselves in the name of safety.
These cameras are used uh by Linhaven Police Department all throughout Bay County through multiple businesses and HOAs and they these cameras have the ability to integrate. It has to be a request, but these cameras can integrate.
There are over 5,000 communities in the US that use Flock. There are over 80,000 flock cameras in the United States and they take billions of photos every single month unwarranted without any
consent. Now, as I said, Linhaven does have five of these. There are over 100 in Bay County. Um, but we don't know because they they don't um publish it. You you could ask. That's how I found out
there's five here. What is Flock really? Flock is a license plate reader, but it's so much more than that. They don't even need your license plate to tell who and what the vehicle is. They can tell by a scratch, a dent, a roof rack, um
a bumper sticker. They can tell who you are by that or at least the vehicle and the registered owner. So simply put, flock is mass surveillance and we're involved in it and it's mass surveillance of innocent people who have done nothing wrong. Now
it does, I will say, make a very difficult job for that the police have a little bit easier or maybe even a lot easier. But Flock is generative EI meaning it learns it learns your traffic patterns. It
knows where you drive. It knows when you leave the house. It knows who you visit. It knows what hospital and what doctor you go to. It knows if you left Newbies at one o'clock in the morning and how you got back to Linhaven. It knows all of that information as long as you pass
through. It's it's estimated that 70% of traffic is monitored by flock. The rights of the people to the to be secure in their persons, house, properties, and effects against unreasonable searches
and seizures shall not be violated. And no warrant shall be issued but upon probable cause and supported by oath or affirmation. That's part of the fourth amendment and this rips that to shreds. I hope as you're thinking about this,
you take that into consideration and let's start to deflock this community because it's intrusive. There's no warrant and no consent. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jerry Parker. >> Good evening, commission. Um, I want to read something from, and this comes
directly from the court, the chief judge of the 14th Judicial Circuit of Florida. It's Christopher Patterson, who was the chief judge, and he had sent this to Nina Ward. I've been made aware of current municipal recall proceedings in accordance with Florida Statute Section
100.36. I have also been advised that Mayor Jesse Nelson will not resign from his current office pursuant to the authority provided in Florida statute section 100.361. I have fixed the day for holding a recall election for the removal of Mayor
Nelson to be January 20th, 2026. Per our conversation on this date, candidate qualifying for said recall election will be December 10th, 2025, 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Central time or any of such a date as you deem appropriate. Please
advise if you require any further anything further and that like I said it was signed by the chief judge. Um the other thing that I want to discuss as well is in reference to number 19 um with
tetratech the change order. Um if y'all could tell me why there's a change order and this is seven years later. Um, as I've stated before, I don't think that Chris Forehand should be operating in
this city. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I will continue to say it again. Um, the other thing that I want to talk about is um the exit money for Vicky Gainer. I'm hearing, this may be true or not, I don't know. Y'all can
clarify. She received $70,000. I think when you exit somebody, if you have four votes against one, I think it's three weeks of pay that she gets, $70,000. That's a lot of money. If y'all
will clarify that when you speak at your information on the commission. The other thing that I want to talk about real quick is on February 28, 2023, Mayor Nelson, you violated Jod's
freedom of speech. You violated her first amendment. And it was very clear. It's on video. And not only did you just clarify, you said, "Yes, I am." That is a violation of someone's First Amendment in public
commentary. Thank you. Scott Bernett. >> Good evening. My name is Scott Bernett, 1208 Connecticut Avenue. Sorry, I didn't know I was signing up to speak. I just thought I was signing in. So, I just want to tell each and every one of you, you're doing a great job. Thank you for
everything you do. Thank you for serving the public and uh keep doing what you're doing. That's all I got. Sorry. All right. Are there any additions, deletions? Well, any additional public commentary? All right. Any additions?
>> Yes. If you'll just give your name and address for the record, please. My name is Laura and I live on Alabama Avenue. Um, I'm going to be making a comment uh similar to Mr. Switzers about
the flock camera system. I'd like to verbalize some concerns I have with the flock cameras. Um, my first concern would be the constitutional concerns regarding the the Fourth Amendment. Um, Flock cameras
allow police to have 247 video surveillance in multiple parts of the city. Actually drove by a camera twice today. Um, and it allows police to have surveillance without probable cause,
without reasonable suspicion, and without a warrant. If a government agency wanted records such as uh Rain doorbell camera footage from a house or CCTV footage from a Walmart, they wouldn't need a warrant. Flock cameras circumvent this lawful
process. This also infringes on citizens right to privacy. The everyday whereabouts of law-abiding citizens can easily be tracked, especially with the multiple cameras throughout the city. In 2018, there was a case heard at the
Supreme Court regarding uh cell phone data being shared with the police and whether they could be tracked without a warrant. Ultimately, they decided that they could not be tracked without a warrant. Um and the court said quote timestamp data provides an intimate
window into a person's life revealing not only his particular movements but through them his familial political professional religious and sexual associations. These location records hold for many Americans the privacies of life and these privacies are no longer
private for us. The second issue I want to bring up is the uh questionable security of these cameras. um a professional security man um John Gaines who has over 10 years of experience in the security field. He
actually uh researched these vulnerabilities with the flop camera system and he identified 47 security issues. One of the main security issues was that you could easily press a button on the back of the camera and gain access remotely to the camera. You can
actually um add photos to the camera. You can edit photos on the camera. You can, um, also easily put something into one of the very obvious and accessible USBC ports on the camera. Um, this could
potentially allow someone to send a video feed to a remote server, um, access, sorry, access data, install firmware and software on these cameras, and, um, like I said, replace or modify footage or images.
While uh flock cameras are arguably a security threat that can um that can be very hackable um to me the most pernicious threat would be the government surveillance of us. So um for these reasons I think that we should
discontinue um relationship with block. Thank you. >> Thank you. Additional public commentary. All right. then any additions, deletions, modifications of agenda. All right, moving on to the uh mayor's
report. Again, want to thank uh everyone for their uh prayers, thoughts, and encouragement during my father's illness. Um he is doing better, still in recovery. Um so certainly uh appreciate your thoughts and prayers in that regard. Um had a great time at the uh
Christmas tree lighting. Um it was great to see everyone out. Thanks again to uh the Rotary Club for the free hot chocolate. I think uh by the time I got over to the hot chocolate, it was all gone. Um I was able to get a few cookies that were left. Um so, thank you all for
that. And um again, thank you to the staff and everyone that put that event together. It's always a great time uh at the Christmas tree lighting celebration. So it was um lots of fun especially to see um our choirs and choruses come out um and sing um old and young actually
singing on that evening. So uh great great event for that. I do have a proclamation would like to read for uh the wreaths across America day. Whereas members of the Wreaths Across America Bay County are proud to partner
with the city of Linhaven and Reefs Across America, a nonprofit organization with a mission to remember, honor, and teach about the service and sacrifices of our nation's veterans, recognizing the courage and sacrifices of US veterans by placing wreaths on the graves of the falling during the holiday
season. And whereas wreaths across America begin in 2006 as an offshoot of the Arlington National Cemetery Wreath Project started in 1992 with the annual placement of wreaths donated by Force Wreath Company with a mission to remember the fallen, honor those who
serve and teach the next generation the value of freedom. And whereas today the wreath laying ceremonies are made possible by the generous commitment of the Warchester Wreath Company of Heriting Maine which donates tens of thousands of wreaths for nationwide observance each year. Whereas last year
members of the public sponsored the placement of millions of wreaths on headstones at thousands of participating locations around the country in honor of the service and sacrifices made for our freedoms with each name said out loud. And whereas the theme for 2025 is keep
moving forward. Whereas Josh Buyers was a company commander of Fox troop in Iraq in 2003 when an IED struck his Humvee as the smoke filled the air. Josh gave his driver a last command. Keep moving forward. Though Josh did not make it
home, this command saved lives and became a battlecry for his unit and family. And whereas Karen Worcester, executive director of Reefs Across America, says there will always be challenges to overcome as individuals, communities, and the country, but we must keep moving forward together. This
year, we will share not only the buyer story of resilience, but also the stories of many others who continue to live with purpose every day and have chosen to keep moving forward. Whereas on December 13th, 2025 at 9:00 a.m., Reefs Across America Bay County and Friends is partnering with the Reefs
Across America to help lay reefs at Mount Hope Cemetery and Linhaven Community Cemetery. Now therefore, I just announced the mayor of the city of Linhaven, Florida, do hereby proclaim December 13th, 2025 throughout the city of Linhaven, Florida as Reefs Across America Day and ask that
everyone join me in supporting this worthwhile project signed on this 9th day of December, 2025. And again, that event will be on December 13th um at 9 a.m. uh to start at the Mount Hope
Cemetery and afterwards move on to the uh Linhaven Community Cemetery. Uh the the time that I've been able to uh be a part of the commission, been able to attend the Reese Across American. It's always a a special day um to see so many
people come out um and honor those honor those who have served us and and made sacrifices for us. Um and it was no very moving for uh one of the families at our church um because um I was able to call her and tell um a widow that I laid a
wreath on her husband's um grave. And so that was real moving for her to know that even in his passing he was still being honored and still being remembered. So I know we do a lot of special things in Lin Haven, but I certainly think this is uh something great that we do every year. So, look forward to being a part of this on
Saturday and hope the other commissioners can make it and hope you all can come out um and make it as well. And that is my report. Commissioner Peeles. Thank you, Mayor. Just want to piggy back on to advocate
for the reefs res across America. I've been a few years um and it's uh it's deeply emotional. Um it's great. Uh, next I want to say thanks to the staff and everyone that made the Christmas lighting happen. It's a lot of
fun. Um, Lin Haven Elementary, uh, Mosley came out and there's some other acts that came out and did some singing. It was fantastic. It was surprisingly cold because it was not cold during the day. I showed up not prepared. Um, luckily my uh, we had some extra coats
and stuff in the car, but it was cold. Um, but thanks for everyone that came out to that. It was a lot of fun. Uh, thank you to the Rotary Club and um and the Coca-Cola machine. That was awesome. Get to hug the Coca-Cola machine and get a Coke. That was fun. Blew my children's
mind. They had fun with that. Even though my daughter told me afterwards that she likes uh Coke Zero better, but hey. Um, also wanted to say thank you to the League of Cities uh for putting together the League of Cities Christmas dinner. Thank you to
Commissioner War for being part of that and making it happen and to everybody else that um that's on the the team at League of Cities here in Bay County that puts on those events. They're always a great time. I encourage uh the rest of the commission to come to those events when they can. Uh it's a great time. And
as always, thank you to the staff and and everybody that is uh making things happen. Um and stay warm out there and merry Christmas. Commissioner Perno. >> Thank you, Mayor. I don't have I don't
have much to report. I've I've gone to the to the wreaths across America, I think every year as a commissioner, and it is a moving thing. And uh to remember people and say their name, place a
wreath, thank them for their service. It you don't think it's you think it's a very short gesture that wouldn't affect you, but it does. and you stand there before people you don't even know, but once you say your name and thank them, it's it's a familiarity that you won't
forget. Um I um I will I will say that u I attended the tree lighting as well. Um and uh it was well done and and I my my utmost appreciation goes out to every member, every city employee and everyone that that helped do that, our Rotary
Club, our our um our citizens that came and attended. And it was it was cold. It got super it was a good windchill that night. So, uh um with the Christmas season on us and and and holidays, I I
hope everyone um remembers uh you know, peace on earth, goodwill to men. Uh had a little experience in Publix the other night. I was just shopping and a little man came by who comes in my restaurant and I said, "Hi." And he said, "Hey, I'm
looking for my wife." I said, "Well, you'll find her in here." And and so I'm in the next aisle and he looked really worried. He says, "Well, uh" he goes, "I just came inside to to get some medication. I left my wife in the car. I came out and the door was open and she was gone." So, you know, going one aisle
over, I learned a little more about his his plight in his situation. And it was it was it was a it was a harrowing uh good hour and a good experience to get around and try to find someone that was a lost loved one so to speak at the very
moment. So my uh my adrenaline goes out was going up there and uh my heart goes out to our our law enforcement, our military cuz y'all could just be sitting around and the next thing you know that kind of situation comes up on you, you know, and and you got to go from you got
to go from zero to to 100 and your heart races and your your fists get tight and you know and you can imagine what that family went through. But it turned out good and they they they they found her uh nearby and uh I won't I won't say anymore, but but I I would say that, you
know, those people mean a lot to me and I was happy it turned out that way. And uh just uh just don't forget to help people when they need it, you know. So, with that being said, I'll say uh I'll say happy holidays, merry Christmas, and happy Hanukkah, and all that good stuff
to everybody. And and I hope I see you all around. Thanks. Thank you, Commissioner P. I do have a follow-up question from the destination PC. I saw she mention about the uh the oyster trail. Does that have any
connection with the >> I was going to ask her too because she mentioned Living Shoreline and I'm sure I I I don't she's not here but I'm sure I saw her name on one of the on on one of the uh boards or um uh she she is uh
she's listed in uh possibly on the management council. >> Okay. >> Uh I I don't particularly know u Mr. Lightfoot might know. So that you know we've done several meetings in destination PC's office uh for the estuary program. So there is a
connection somehow but I'm not sure exactly if it's just you know a business member or or how they fall but they are connected and help each other out. >> Got it. Right. Thank you. Commissioner Ward. >> Um usually by the time it comes here it's pretty much already been said. So
uh appreciate the staff doing a great job in the Christmas tree lighting. Um wreath across America. That is uh definitely something that's sentimental to me. I've been going to that for quite a few years and it is a very sobering experience. If you got time, it usually takes what, maybe an hour and uh it's a
great ceremony, so please come on out. [clears throat] Um I was a little disappointed the Christmas parade got cancelled. Um I had my cousin Eddie suit ready to go and oh man, been able to dress up this year. So
>> Oh, I knew you were going to say that. Um, and the last thing I have is, um, I know at the last meeting I've talked about the advice and consent. Uh, sent an email to the city attorney, Miss Meyers, wanted to get her legal analysis on it. Uh, I believe she sent that out to all the commissioners. Thank you for
that. Um, one of the things that was on there that you had suggested was to do a resolution on that. So, I wanted to bring that up now to see even though we've already voted on it, you guys um would like to do that as a resolution
just to kind of firm it up. And I don't know if you wanted to say anything on that. >> I'll just confirm that even though you have already voted, I think having a resolution will clarify um until the charter is amended uh your intention to participate in the process and how much
you intend to participate in the process. I think it could be helpful Oh, you good with that? >> Okay. So, I guess at the next meeting we'll hopefully have a resolution for that. And uh that's all I had. Thank you.
>> Right. And Mr. Lightfoot in your report um if you could give an update on what the process is now in regards to the commission's involvement. >> Yes, sir. >> Thank you, Commissioner Tinder. >> Thank you. Um, a couple things that, um,
I'm very excited about was, uh, something that, uh, Mr. Lightfoot gave me. Since they started not taking city vehicles home, we have saved almost $4,000 in one month
in gas. That's a lot of money. And you figure if we do that all year, that'll make a huge difference. And I was very impressed with that. I really didn't think it would be that much, but uh I was excited.
Um, one of the things that many of you don't know, we receive the police report every day of what goes on here in Lyn Haven. Most We're a very safe city. I can say that.
and our hats should be off to our police officers because some of the stuff I read that we send police officers out on um could probably be handled with a belt, but I'm too old to be saying that.
uh called I mean they're being called out because some kid smarted off to his mother and they want the police officer to tell him not to do that and things of that nature. I mean they
are run ragged for a lot of um just crazy things. I I can't even describe them. Um so that's always very interesting reading. Um, one of the things that I wanted to address, and I don't even remember who
brought it up, is, and we'll probably be discussing this later on. I remember the day that we voted for the flocking and those machines to come in. There was one lady and she was sitting right over there and she was, oh, she was she stood
up and you could tell she was not a person to stand up and talk, but she sure said her mind. and uh she did, she said it all. And just like what we've been hearing tonight, um in doing that, we've taken away people's privacy.
We've taken away people's um even if they haven't done anything wrong. I mean, we're taking it away. I know people who that when they would come in town, they would stop outside of town, get a different car so that they could come in
town without being known. Not that they were coming here to break the law, but they didn't feel like they needed to be followed around for five or six days while they were here. I mean, that in itself, I brought this up to the city manager um uh last week during our
meeting that uh the machines, and I know you said they're different machines, but they look exactly like the flocking machines. Uh there's one two doors from Vicky Gainor's house, and there's one three doors from Ricky Rainey's house. and they live a block apart. So, they
have access to simply getting not them personally, but they have access to saying, "Check this car out. It's gone by three times." Or whatever it is. Um it just seems like it's a real invasion of privacy. Okay,
I'm going to stop there. On the um bullet casings that Mr. Thompson brought up. We have discussed this. I have been given different answers by different people
and I was very much involved because the resident brought me the evidence originally and Mr. Lightfoot and Mr. Infinger, I believe it was, decided that they would let the sheriff's department intervene
and take that evidence and do their own report. I was told after that and he did come, he came to the cafe, he got everything. I went to the back. I said, "I don't want to hear this. I don't want to know
anything." I went to the back and they came and got me after he left. Then I was told that the sheriff's department said there's nothing to report and
that was that that was just what I was told. There was nothing to report. I saw what was there. I mean you know everything that they said was there was there. Um so then I was also told after that in
contacting Mr. Lightoot again that they've contacted Larry Bassford and that he said there's nothing to prosecute that if we sue
police officer he could turn around and sue us or that might have been with the stolen property and I call it stolen property. Uh, so anyway, that I've gotten many different answers on and they just kind of go back and forth.
As far as the I was told 70 to $80,000 worth of equipment that the old IT manager brought back that he'd had at his house for months and months before he quit. And after he quit, I was told there were five car loads full of
equipment brought back. TVs and brand new boxes, never been opened, hand tools, drones, uh laptops, speakers, you name it. That the whole office, I guess, was pretty well full. Um
I've been told I've asked I've asked more than once, why wasn't he arrested? I don't understand that. Why was he just not plain old arrested? He had no business having that stuff at his house. Number one, he certainly didn't have any business having it at his house for months and months. And how do you know
where he got it? How do you know what he's already sold? You know, I I wanted answers to all those questions. And and I guess there just are no answers. That is the one where I believe u Mr. Lightfoot said Larry Bassford said, "Oh,
he could sue us if we try to sue him." I don't get it. Don't get the answer. Um, but he's fine and dam you know and we then dispersed with all the equipment throughout the city.
I don't know if there was inventory if there would be a sheet available now of what was turned in or or uh what was turned in or what was handed out or whatever. But that is another question that I've asked and I get different answers and I
think Mr. life with probably the only one that can answer it at this point. Um because he's got contact with those people. We have great employees here. Great employees. Many of them blindly do what they're
told knowing that they could lose their job or whatever. And I get that to a certain degree, but boy, integrity says a lot. and we we um integrity says it all. So,
um we were recently I'm going to apologize for this right up front. We were recently um deposed and uh as usual, I spoke my mind and that will all be public for your
reading pleasure. Um and don't anybody take it personal. That's just how I It's just how I felt about the whole situation. Anyway, I think we've got great employees. I wish we could do more for them. Uh I know they had a lunch the other day. Um
I think they all got gift cards, didn't they? Or something. >> Yes, ma'am. >> They all got $25 gift cards to Amazon. And um anything is better than nothing. And at least it says that we care. Um I think we need to care a lot more. I need the m
I think the money needs to be dispersed more amongst the employees. Um and I hope everybody has a great Christmas season for sure. Um and our rescue, fire department, all
those folks do an amazing job. I see him in action all the time and um I appreciate it and I know everybody else does. But if you have any qu I I don't I'm jo I'm not joking when I say this. If you
have any questions, call me. Um because I get a lot of calls about some things I can't do anything about, some things that don't exist. Um just ask Chris over here. I'm texting him all day. Have you ever heard of this? Do you know how to do this? what are we going to do about
this? That kind of thing. But um I I will always try to find an answer if I can. And uh thank you very much. And that's the end of my report. >> Right. Thank you. Uh Commissioner Peoples, you got something else? >> Yeah, I just forgot one thing. So over
the past few weeks, there's been an influx of people reaching out to me about uh rails to trails, the crosswalks. Um, and so I think maybe next meeting we should have just a discussion item on some ways forward to help with safety. Um, for example, how
much it's going to cost to possibly put sensors rather than having the constant flashing lights, have it to where there's sensors to when there's someone there is flashing lights or something to that effect. I'm no expert. I know Ben would know a lot more than than I would. I don't want to put you on the spot
tonight. So, I wanted to Yeah. I mean, but maybe we can put it on a a discussion item. We'll add it to the uh Friday capital improvement work. That fit perfect. >> That's perfect. Yep. >> I'm sorry. Can I add one more little thing? >> I was gonna ask ask Ben about this too
and I wrote it on a different piece of paper. Now, this is again saving pennies. I get it. But, you know, down here where we've totally renovated the soldiers park and everything is so beautiful and it looks great. Um, do you think it would be beneficial for us to
have those lights on timers where they go off like at 10 o'clock at night they're on? If I lived across the street from those lights, you'd probably get a call from me every day. But, um, they're LED lights, so I don't think our power bill
is significant just for that park. Um, so the the energy that we're using there is very minimal. Um, we can we're still fine-tuning the park, if you will. Uh, we're still looking at uh the the lights and making we want to make
sure that the lights shine into the park and not into the neighbors yards. So, you can make some adjustments there and and so we're in the process of of making these these minor adjustments. >> And we haven't uh had to go down there for homeless people sleep in there, have
we? >> Haven't seen any. I haven't seen any either. Thank you. >> Right. See the manager report. >> Yes, sir. I'd like to take a second to uh commend acting chief infinginger. He um took made the decision to mark our
patrol cars. Don't know if you all have seen it, but the feedback on Facebook and social media has been amazing. Um I think we were up to like 2,300 likes and reactions. Um hundreds of comments. It's been shared on numerous uh other social
media pages. Um so it has been a a very positive feedback from that. Um so happy with with that outcome. Um the chief update sends you all an email probably an hour before the meeting. So very likely haven't seen it yet, but we have the final three interviews next week
with the three candidates. It will be next Monday, Thursday, Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I've sent you all the calendar invites for your one-on-one times uh with each candidate as well as the resumes and cover letters. Um, as we talked about before, it was going to be a panel of three
outside uh police executives with Miss Hodes and myself. However, Sheriff Ford has a scheduling conflict. He is going to be out of the area. Um, so we have invited uh Chief Pageige from Fort Walton Beach in his place. um he is the um director of the Florida Police Chiefs
Association for District 10, I believe. So, great resume from him. So, he will be a great asset to add to the panel. So, we'll wrap that up and have a uh motion for advice and consent approval for the police chief. Commissioner Pebbles, you asked an update for the sewer plant just publicly. I sent you
all the pictures couple weeks ago of the decaner that was replaced. We've got one more to go that was approved in fiscal year 25 budget. We have been working on some other equipment uh replacements from valve actuators and just sampling equipment, smaller things. We do have
the raft telis task orders that we have finally gotten back from the county. Miss Meyers and the county attorney has been working on the agreement. So hopefully the next commission meeting we can bring those before you so we can do the three different uh rate studies for the sewer plant.
December 11th, we have two bid openings. One is for the Tennessee Avenue Sidewalks construction and one is for the Tennessee A Avenue Sidewalk CI the LAP project. I'm um the DOT lab project. The December 15th we have the 12,200 and
1300 block of Minnesota Avenue sidewalk bid due. We have the Bell Circle water man and the Bradford Circle water main bids due on December 17th. Um Corey Bracy who's here with us tonight has been doing a tremendous job and getting all of our procurements in line getting
things advertised um as they should. So we have probably seen the most efficient bidding for a fiscal year um since I've been here. So doing a great job with that. We do the next meeting will likely bring you a new planning board member
appointment. We have had a planning board member who's missed three consecutive meetings. We do have another one who's likely to miss out um on another one. So, we will have two openings um and bring those appointments to you all. BCL is wrapping up the CDBG Minnesota Avenue sidewalk project. Um done a great
job with that. Um River and Maria are working on the reimbursement packages to to finish that up. So, all of that is 100% reimburseable. This Saturday along with the Reese Across America at 9:00 a.m. we have dogs with um donuts with dogs. Saturday at 8 to 11:00 at the
animal shelter which is put on by the North Bay Haven Beta Club. So after you get done with RE across America, swing by um animal control and enjoy a donut there. Friday is our capital improvement workshop. We'll start at 9:00, probably
shooting to around to to lunchtime to discuss capital improvement projects and the ulc. Um about three meetings ago, I believe, we discussed the items that were returned, the IT equipment items talked about. Um specifically, Mr. Thompson
asked about the drones. We took those to the Boys and Girls Club that has a place in our gym. They were drones that we couldn't use professionally because the licensing and all of the Russian Chinese laws that happened in the last year or so. We had to get new drones. So those drones went out there to the Boys and
Girls Club so they can be used for the after school program out at the gym as well as like you talked about all the tools and and different equipment was dispersed through public works, facility maintenance, utilities, and I believe some went to fleet as well and parks
cameras, they are an item. We'll discuss those further as we get there. And then the sports officials payment, we did remedy that situ situation today. Every now and then there's an invoice that slips through the cracks. That just happened to be one of them. And remedy today we we cut a um a check actually it
was a electronic fund transfer out of the sequence but they are paid um money will be in their bank tomorrow >> ask a quick question. Um so for the planning board appointments are those >> at large? >> So both of those are at large. Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you. Just to piggyback on that, I believe uh just I would I would say let's go back and look at the minutes, but I think when we made a motion on the last planning board um appointment, it was with uh the caveat that there was certain people that were
in waiting. So they might actually be the ones that are in line for those positions. So we may want to just go back and look at those minutes and see if my memory might be wrong. But yeah, I think it was was it Doolittle? >> It was during that meeting. Yeah. When
Doolittle got a um >> put him on the >> Yeah. >> contractor board or >> right? And then uh Chris Clubs and then one other person. We were talking about like three of them I think. So >> I do remember that. >> Yeah. too. >> Yeah, we'll go back and look at that. If
I recall, I thought the process we couldn't have somebody in waiting like that, but we'll look back at the process and bring it back before you. >> Okay, cool. >> I'd like to add to my report. Florida State women's soccer team is the
national champions as of yesterday. Go NLES. Jameus Winston tweeted and said, "Thank you to the Florida State soccer team for being the one football team that's continually good." [laughter] >> All right. U city attorney,
>> I have I have two reports or two things to mention to you. Um I would uh Mark Ryan who is our senior advisor uh with ICMA who is assisting with the city manager search reached out to me last week um because he I wanted to confirm
that he is he is also networking uh the city's posting to his contacts. Um he noticed though however we had not posted uh our recruitment opportunity on ICMA and I understand from speaking with staff that that had not been done
because it cost $450 to do so. And so I wanted to get direction from the commission as to whether or not that was okay to post there or if you felt like it would has already been taken care of in other avenues. >> We did get an email on that. That was my
fault. I never did respond to it. I I have no problem with that. Okay. >> Is that something we need to formally vote on? >> I'll take a head nod given the amount, but if there's no objection, um I think staff will know what to do with it and go ahead and get that posted on ICMA. He
acknowledged there was a cost that was heftier than posting on some other websites, but thought because of what that website was, it was well worth it. So, I wanted to recommend that. And then the second thing I wanted to bring to your attention, you are required under state law to get four hours of ethics training and public records uh by the
end of the year. If you haven't done that, I want to invite you to come reach out to me because I have some opportunities for you to get that done by the end of the year. That's my report. >> Mayor, I forgot the finance report from Miss Roman if you have any.
>> Any questions about the warrant list? No, just wanted to say thanks for that um email where you kind of took the warrant list and then listed what more instructions on what everything was. That was really helpful. So,
>> I will there was a question about the former city manager's payout for the contract. She was entitled to 16 weeks of pay and she was also compensated for hero balance. Any other questions?
>> I think you answered my question before. >> I did have a question for the city attorney, though. >> All right. We'll finish with Miss Roman. >> Thank you. Um, Amy, I just wanted to ask you, were
you ever notified or asked your opinion or your advice on whether or not the IT ex-manager should have been arrested? >> I was not. And I'm not a criminal attorney. I would be the wrong person to ask. >> Who would be the right person to ask?
>> I think the state attorney is an appropriate person to ask. >> Thank you. All right, moving on to the consent agenda. Approval of minutes dated 11:125. Approval to retire K9 Brother to live as
a pet with his handler, John Kaine. Approval to accept rightaway from Bay County for M Bayou Boulevard roundabout. Approval to surplus equipment on spreadsheet and authorize staff to auction or sell as scrap. Is there a motion for this? Motion to approve.
>> Second. Motion by Commissioner Ward, second by Commissioner Pero. Mr. Lightfoot, if you'll call the vote. >> Commissioner War, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson,
>> yes. Motion pass. All right. Moving on to the public hearing for the discussion and approval of resolution 2025 12496 approving a CRA 10ear time extension [clears throat] hearing opens at 6:56
p.m. If you'll read the resolution by title please. A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, and ex officio as the governing body of the city of Linhaven Community Redevelopment Agency, approving the third amendment of the city of Linhaven Community Redevelopment
Plan to extend the plan's duration, making findings of fact, and providing an immediately effective date. >> Mr. Jenke, >> good evening. You may recognize this uh agenda item. Uh we talked about this at the last CRA meeting. Um this uh
resolution is uh just the next step to solidify the the process of of um extending the lifespan of the Linhaven CRA by another 10 years. Um this resolution shows all the details why we think it's appropriate to extend
the lifespan. Um and should the city commissioner approve this, we uh our city attorney will be able to move forward with this and I think present this to the county as a next step. So, we have already pres we have already sent notice to the county informally by
giving them sharing with them the presentation that Ben shared with you uh last month. Um we also sent certified mail notices to all of the taxing authorities including the county. County attorney did reach out and have had some questions about the prior amendments. Um
but beyond that, if you adopt it, this this plan is extended for 10 years and we'll work with Ben on getting it codified. All right. Um, are there any further questions for Mr. Yankee about this? Right. Is there a motion to approve?
>> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Right. Comments from the public, Mr. Walker. You discussed this at the last meeting. Um, this process has been tried twice to
do this. Bottom line here is the state of Florida has figured out that the CRAAS have ceased to be productive and they should be looked at. Are they doing the job?
Gave you 30 years to do it in twice. You tried to enlarge it with the 950 acres and the fuel depot. was shot down along with the enlargement. You tried to extend it, it was shot down.
Bottom line here is this is it. If you can't get it done within 30 years, 10 more years is not going to help you. You have eight more years to go before this sunsets. If you can't get the projects that are in line now done in seven
years, you're not going to get them done in 17 years. You're only going to add more to prolong this projects that were taken was to get rid of white. That was the objective. You did
it. And guess what? All those projects were destroyed. The hurricane had to do it again. Okay. You got some projects here. Yes. That are pending. You can't finish them
within seven years and close it out. You're not doing your job. You're not doing your job. That's the point. That's what the state of Florida is looking at. Griffith has
been in discussion with CRA director and he's still of the opinion, take a look at this. You should be able to get it done. within seven years. And therefore, the money that would go into TIFF
and in Bay County, TIFF will come to you and go into your budgets to take care of your projects, not the projects of the city manager who has used the CRA to get things done that he couldn't get through you.
That's what the problem is. Additional public commentary if you call the vote. >> Well, I have additional uh Can I talk about it? >> Sure. >> Thanks. So the reason why I am for this is because at the municipality level is
very difficult to find incentive programs for businesses and the CRA allows us to do that whereas a lot of other avenues do not. For example, we have an incentive program in place through the CRA that will
reimburse businesses that want to expand their business larger, like add a patio or something like that. Um, that's it's also a way that you can do tax breaks and some other type of incentive programs that other avenues do not allow. And one of the main things that
we want to do in Linhaven is to bring in businesses and local businesses have do not have the hands up that, you know, larger corporations do. And by using the CRA, we're able to use that to incentivize smaller businesses and local
businesses to come to our area. And so that is why I'm a huge fan of the CRA. I I think that's one of the way that's the one way the easiest way to help incentivize businesses to come to us because the reality is is that people
that live here, they can just drive down to Panama City. People that live in Southport, if it's not that much further to drive to Panama City than it is to drive to Linhaven. So, if we can incentivize unique businesses to come here, it's going to bring more money to
our city as a community and the CRA is one of the e the one of the best ways to help make that happen. And so, I just want to say on record that I'm a big fan of extending this so that we can help bring more businesses in here.
>> Yeah, I agree. Um, in regards to the support that the CRA can provide for businesses, uh, in addition to what I've seen us do for our citizens and in the community, um, wish more would take advantage of like the the paint program. I know several that have taken advantage of that. And it's saved the citizens
money and getting their homes painted by us helping to buy the paint. Um, and I mean, just a lot of good things that come from this. We see a lot of the new sidewalks going up. Rails the trails. Um, you know, CRA was was able to hit with that as well. So, um, we do see I don't know what other communities are
doing with their CRA or not doing with their CRA, but I think we're, you know, using ours to the best advantage to make a better community for us. Um, and it, you know, impacts our community and beyond. So, any other discussion or comments on that? >> I'd like to add, mayor, I'm not sure
what project that I've brought before you all that I couldn't get past to the CRA. There hasn't been any since July that I know of. Um, so not sure which project we're talking about there, but we will definitely continue to work towards the other projects that we have. >> Right. Thank you.
Right. Let's call the vote. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. Motion passes. Public hearing closes at 7:03 p.m. Quas judicial public hearing
opens at 7:04 p.m. Then city attorney, if you'll do the swearing in. Will anyone who is going to give testimony in this public hearing, please stand and be sworn.
Do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give tonight is the truth and nothing but the truth? >> All right. And commissioners, if you will give your Jennings disclosures. >> None. >> None. >> None. None. >> None. >> Good evening. Thank you. Um before you
is a request for development order approval regarding Otto's car wash. This is located at 1801 Highway 77 located in our commercial district. Uh this is about a 2.03 acre
property. This is not located in the CRA, but it is located in our corridor overlay district. And this would be for a one bay car wash um with the automatic tunnels and associated parking for
vacuum and cleaning bays. That is located uh just for reference across uh right next to our rails to trail and in between that and where Diego is on 17th Street.
the car wash. Uh the applicant has been working with FOT and as a result of the traffic study. Uh a right turn lane into the site would be required. So they will be working with the DOT on all permitting related to that. If you have
any other further questions, I'll be happy to answer them. >> Right. Any additional questions for our planning director or for anyone um representing this? >> Any concerns with any traffic studies or
anything? >> Uh it has been reviewed by the DOT. So, uh other than the right turn lane warrant, there seems to be no other issues with the traffic that would be generated from this. >> Awesome. Thank you. All right. Any other
questions? All right. Is there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. Comments from the public. >> All right. You'll call the role. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peeles.
>> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson? >> Yes. Motion passes. Public hearing closes at 7:06 p.m. Discussion and possible approval of
resolution 2025 12500 ratifying flock cameras agreement. If you'll please read that by title only please. A resolution of the city of Linhaven approving, confirming, and to the extent necessary, ratifying that certain agreement with Flock Group Incorporated related to
license plate reader hardware and software used by the city police department and authorizing revisions of the order form associated with that agreement. >> Right. Thank you. Um, >> mayor, before we we go to that item or get into that. >> Yes.
>> All this is is ratifying a contract that was signed previously. It's just needing to come back before the commission for the proper channels and proper approvals. We are not adding any additional flock cameras. We're not moving any flock cameras. We are just formalizing the paperwork that should
have already been formalized. Of course, earlier we did have some um expressions of concern from citizens regarding uh the flock cameras, their placement and potentially what we are um surveying
surveying at that particular time. Is there any do we have a response to their concerns in regards to that? >> I would ask acting chief enfinger. He is much better verse in the f cameras and how they work than I am and he can provide a great response.
So, I think there's a bit of a misconception about what flock cameras are, what they do. Um, the gentleman that came up in was speaking about them. He was right about most what he said. We have five flock cameras in the city of Linhaven. They take still images, so they don't take any video. They're
positioned on We've got two on 77, two on 390, and one on 389. As a car passes, they photograph the back of that car and that documents that license plate that goes into a cloud-based database that we
can research. So, you can tamper with the camera all you want. The information is not there. It's sent up to an encrypted cloud-based database. We then have access to that database to be able to search it. when we're doing research, when we do research on something, we
have to put in a case number and or a reason that we're doing our inquiry. So, um, in November of last year, about 13 months ago, the Shell gas station, 26th Street, got robbed, was robbed at gunpoint one morning. Um, our officers
went out there. They were able to get store um, surveillance video of the vehicle because a guy, the clerk had no idea what the guy was driving. The guy walks out of the store, goes behind there. He left his truck in the alley. They got video of that truck as it was
leaving. They used Flock to get the tag number off that truck, identify a suspect. They looked at his photographs. They looked at the video and the and the robbery, determined it was indeed the same guy. So, they sent out an alert through Flock. They put it on a hot
list. So, when that vehicle passed a Flock camera, it sends an alert out to police officers that are in that area. Later that day, he passed a flock camera in Port St. Joe. Port St. Joe Police Department arrested him and we had a good solid case because he still had the
money. He still had the clothes he was wearing. All the evidence was in that truck. Would we have caught him without flock? More than likely. Would it have been the same day? I don't see how it could have been. It would have probably been a couple weeks later. Um, this past January, we had a 10-year-old little
girl abducted. She got off the school bus. Um, a vehicle pulls up. Somebody gets out and they grab her and they take off. So, we go out there and it's all hands on deck. Everybody's searching the neighborhood. Everybody's looking everywhere, talking to people, asking questions. So, they
had a vehicle description. So, they get video from the apartment complex of this vehicle leaving. So, we have a vehicle description. Um, they develop a suspect out of that. They get a tag number on that vehicle. They put it out. They start um doing inquiries on
flock and they see this vehicle has passed flock cameras going north on 231 and he's going north and they're trying to get ahead of him. So they put it on a hot list. That vehicle passed a tag reader in Troy, Alabama. Troy PD pulls
it over. The little girl's fine. The guy that abducted was arrested immediately. And it was within about 3 hours of it occurring that that little girl was safe and that guy was in custody. Um through further investigation, he was actually headed to Tennessee. Without the flock
camera, I don't see how we would have found her before Tennessee. Um I firmly believe that in situations like that that um I mean time is of the essence when you have a missing child and time can be of
the essence with other crimes too. the robbery that's I mean it's a property crime but when you're talking about the life of a child that's pretty serious. So I'll tell you that with Flock there are two ways we get information from Flock. So all that stuff is stored in an
encrypted cloud-based database maintained by Flock. So if a vehicle is hotlisted and they can be hotlisted for a number of reasons. If somebody gets a warrant for their arrest, they're hot listed. So, if our officers are
patrolling the city and somebody drives in the city and they pass that flock camera, that alert goes out. This guy has a warrant for his arrest. Or if it's an Amber Alert for a missing child, we've all seen that they put on the interstate all that information up their vehicle and a tag number, that will go through a flock alert if that passes one
of those cameras. So, that's how we get the information. We'll get information for somebody that's that's wanted for a crime, some a crime that's occurred, Amber Alert, things like that. The other way is like I described earlier when we actually do searches trying to get more information to solve a crime. So there's
the uh cameras in the park. Those are video surveillance cameras. They're owned by the city of Linhaven. Um the city of Linhaven's IT. I believe they um they maintain a database for that video footage. So that's not integrated into Flock. They're just video surveillance
cameras like you'd see in a store anywhere else. So that's in essence what Flock is. Um, most of what I told you you can just Google. I am able to audit that system. >> Got it. So, our officers just don't sit around looking at the flock all day,
only access it >> if needed. Correct. >> Um, in instances that you mentioned earlier that if it's something that's needed, then there's >> And you're also mentioning that there's a process, I guess, in order for them to actually access that steel photo from the flock as well. >> Yeah. So, if they're if they're
searching, they've got an I mean, they're looking for something for a reason. Um, as far as just randomly looking at different tag numbers that come through, there's there's not really a way that you can do that. Um, I mean, you're search you're putting in a search and you're searching for something and you list a reason why you're searching
for it and usually they'll put in a case number. It's pretty easy to see what they're doing. And then as far as the alerts, when the alerts come out, um, the alerts are generated by a hot list. It's an FDLE hot list and that's sent out to it's just sent out through the program. So, anybody who's on duty, they
have the program up in their car. It pops up. So, somebody comes through with a stolen car. We've recovered several stolen cars using Flock. They pass a Flock camera, goes out to everybody, and everybody kind of goes and recovers a vehicle. >> Right. Additional questions? Um there's
no doubt it's a valuable tool that helps keep our community safe and I appreciate you sharing the stories because that's one of the questions I was going to ask you. Um from my understanding you can keep it longer than 30 days if you actually have a case involved with it. Is that correct? >> Yeah. So if we if we were to actually
take like for example that armed robbery or or the child abduction case um they'll take that data and that will be then submitted as evidence under that case and then it's then it's kept under that case and it depends on the crime what our retention level is but I think we've got to keep everything at least 3
years. So we go beyond 30 days if it's evidence in a in a case that we worked. So in in that respect it will be more than 30 days. And where we have whereas we have five flock cameras in Linhaven there's a bunch of them and there's hundreds of them in Bay County. I mean
just we've got the one at the base of Bailey Bridge are coming into the city but um I think there's eight of them in Southport along 77. >> Yeah, it's a lot. From what I understand,
it helps them avoid this area because there's only so many ways to get into Linhaven, >> right? But I mean, as far as it helping or making people avoid Linhaven, I don't see why that would I mean, we've only got five, >> right? >> I say if you're coming here up 77 from
Southport, you're going to pass about eight more before you ever get into Linhaven. And with Panama City, it's there's probably a good half a dozen on along 77 before you get into Len Haven as well. So, and and I can understand the resident's concern about privacy and that. Um, I definitely the the data we
get from this definitely um outweighs the the safety and that. I think what we need to do as commission just to make sure we have policies in place that um help alleviate um those privacy protections. So, um does all police
officers have access to it or just certain police officers? >> All police officers and our dispatchers. Okay. And >> so I'm the I'm our agency administrator for that. So I set up accounts and I have accounts for our dispatchers and for our officers. Those are people who
already have have taken the classes and have access to NCIC, FCIC because driver information, driver's licenses and license plates is so protected. I mean it's like juvenile information. It is very very very protected. And so people
that already have access to NCIC, FCIC, those are the people that I put on the account. So, Commissioner War, if you'd like access, you're going to have to get your FCIC certification first, >> and you're going to have to have a reason for it. [laughter] Um, but I I guess one of the concerns I
have is um and I don't know if we do this already, but if a police officer goes in there and starts searching for stuff, I know there's an audit for or an audit log for that, but is there is there a process in place for someone to actually audit them to make sure that they're not going in there trying to do
anything mischievous? >> There isn't. And there's nothing that like sends an alert. Oh, so and so's, you know, looking up a tag or something like that. um the way the way that I treat it now, if I have an officer complaint or I have any suspicion, wrongdoing, I can audit it. And and
there's other data systems we have that we treat the same way. So there there's nothing that really aside from just thinking somebody's up to no good or I mean if you're trying to stalk your ex-girlfriend, she's going to complain. We're going to look into it and if you're wrong, you're wrong and we'll deal with it,
>> right? I I don't know what the rest of you think, but I think we should have something in place where there's some just some type of I don't I'm not saying you got to check every time they go in there, but maybe 10% of their searches or 20% or something. >> You can absolutely do that. So, the police department has a policy right now
for flock usage. And it's um how you use it, why you use it, when you use it, that sort of thing. Um but we can absolutely add into a policy. Um if you'd like to recommend that that there's a yearly audit, a a semiannual audit, just a random audit, that would be fine. We do random audits like on
body camera footage already. So, we can absolutely incorporate that if you'd like, however you'd like us to do it. What I will say is the the whole uh flock camera idea is challenged in court a lot. And it's been challenged in court many many times as being
unconstitutional and and unreasonable search. And so far, it's always ruled that it is not. But there may come a day when a Supreme Court judge says, you know what, this is unconstitutional. And when that day comes, we can't use it. But until that day comes, I would like
to have that as a tool because it's very valuable. >> Right. I think we just need to make sure we have policy and procedures in place just to, you know, try to alleviate as much as we can. >> Okay. Would you like me to email the commission our current policy on flock usage? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. I'll do that tomorrow.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh where are the where' you say they're located at? So, we have two on Highway [clears throat] 77. Um, all of our flock cameras point towards the city because it doesn't do us a whole lot of good to say, well, this guy that
had a warrant just left the city. So, we've got one at the base of the Bailey Bridge, like right by PO Folks. Um, it's pointing into the city. We've got another one on 77 right around 17th Street, points back this way. And the reason it's there is because that the CRA had originally paid for these and
that was part of the CRA area. Uh we've got we've got one on 390 right about Delaware. We've got one on 389 right about in that same area. And then we've got another one on 390 that's about six 16th Street or so.
Those are our five block cameras that we have at this time. >> Awesome. >> They all face in towards the city. >> Thank you. So the good news is is they're on main highways. It's not like they're facing neighborhoods. Um yeah. I mean, the people that came up and
taught, they made darn good arguments. I get it. Um, and but it's one of those things where from a risk management standpoint, you can't you don't you you never really want to look at anything like flot
cameras and say, uh, you know, a one zero on or off, it's all good or it's all bad because it's just simply not true. It's really a risk management of does the risk of whatever outweigh the the cost of the safety. And I think with
only having five all facing on main highways, um I think the benefit outweighs the the the cost. And and I'm get the privacy thing, but the reality is is you're on a public road. It's not like you're in someone's
yard. if you're if they're facing in someone's yard, like taking pictures of them in their own yard, that's a huge privacy issue. But if you're on a public highway, I mean, uh you're it's I guess the uh there is the argument of the the
the search or whatever without consent. Um but you know, if it's gone to Supreme Court and it hasn't been denied yet, we've only got five of them.
Uh, >> yeah. >> I I would say back to the story of the the girl that was basically kidnapped, what kind of a price tag do you put on that little girl? We know it's priceless, right? And I'm sure the person that got that daughter back loves
these things, you know. Um, we just need to make sure we do our due diligence and um making sure we're auditing ourselves and and uh protecting people's privacy. I think we can do that if we're not already doing it. I'm sure we are. But >> yeah, I agree with you.
>> Um, and maybe Mr. Lightfoot or Mr. Myers can answer this. What are the repercussions for not ratifying this agreement? >> You can do nothing. Um the implication for staff is that we would like better direction from the commission because we
have understood from the comments made in the last several months that it is very important to you that particularly purchases over uh a $35,000 threshold come to you for attention. So that is the wrong we are trying to write here. So, by not ratifying it, um, you need to
give some clear direction to staff as to why that is happening because we are trying to do the right thing here. If it's because you don't like the cameras and you never wanted the city to have them in the first place, um, I would request that you direct us to cancel the
contract and that you also defund it so that there is no money to in fact continue to honor the contract that's already been written. Is that helpful? >> Yes, that is helpful. Thank you.
Uh, is there further discussion on this? >> I have one more question. >> Okay. >> Uh, what are the cameras that I mentioned before? >> I don't know what those cameras are. I know the country club has two flock cameras, but those don't belong to us. The cameras you're talking about, I
don't know what those are. >> They're both one on 8th Street and one on Colorado. I >> think the one on Colorado belongs to the country club. Both the country clubs came. >> Both country clubs. >> Both. Okay. Thank you. >> I don't have any other questions.
>> All right. Uh, is there a motion for this? Motion to approve. >> I'll second it. >> All right. There's a motion. There's a second. Uh, >> going chair, man. You just shrunk five inches.
>> Uh, comments from the public. All right, Mr. Walker. >> I don't think you realize and know what they know. This city has private people that have security systems. They have cameras. I know. I've had them
installed. I've had an incident where I've had to call the police and they came in. The first question was, "Do you give us permission to look at it?" Yes. Okay. And we caught the perpetrator and we did it. It's exactly what it is.
These are private in this city. There's a network. Police have a network. They can access any of those cameras in this town. Okay. that takes care of your system. My
subject here is CRA disapproved CRA advisory board which don't have permission disapproved the original trackers. It was a very heavy discussion because of invasion of privacy. A tracker at that time does more than
these. This locks on a subject follows them for as long as they want. They know exactly what that person's doing. Number one. Number two, I have personally been hacked into an
estate controlled cameras and told I own a fine. I wasn't even in the state. My car wasn't even here. What are the security ramifications of the link between
internet outside their brain? We don't know that. Granted, I agree with the commissioner. It's a good tool. I have never seen these gentlemen do that or get involved in that.
However, the option there is there other people to do it other be and it to be used incorrectly. I do not we didn't approve it in the CRA CRA went city manager went over our
heads police officers went over our heads and had you commissioners make the CRA pay for those. So concerns are there. I can speak to that. Uh, so as a cyber
security professional, I can speak to what you're saying. It's through AWS, which is Amazon. They have some of the best encryption in the world. If we get hacked through Amazon, they don't want
the reputation to be bad. They'll we can sue them and and get repercussions from it. It's Amazon. They got tons of money. Okay. Um, and it's encrypted. It's very very difficult to de- enrypt cameras. Uh, it would it would have to be um an
an attacker would have to have a very good reason to spend as much time hacking into a tag camera when they can go hack something else. it come bad guys use the path of least resistance and if they're using their
efforts to look at a license plate um I don't the odds of that happening are very slim because they could be using those resources to be getting some money or doing something else. So is it possible? Absolutely it is. Is it
probable? I'll use the term likelihood. Is the severity high? Yes. But the likelihood is low. So you when you're looking at risk like this, you look at the likelihood versus the severity of what happens if it were to be hacked. You look at the you look at the
likelihood. The likelihood is low. It lowers the severity. It's not as big of a deal in terms of being hacked as you might think is what I'm getting at. Mayor, I'd like to add to haven't bought any clock cameras or signed any
agreements since I've been here in July. >> All right. >> This is the first time we're doing some camera discussion here. >> All right. Um, and I guess I don't know if and and I think you answered this previously, um, acting chief, and that
is I know some of the concerns from the citizens was the access that someone could have to it going to, you know, download a video, upload video, you know, take something out. Did you did you respond to that earlier? You gave us a lot of information, so I can't remember if you responded to that exactly. I know that was one of the
concerns was pressing buttons on the camera, basically manipulating the camera, having access to it directly there. So, I honestly don't know if you could um plug a cord into a USB on the camera to
add photos, but I mean I know you can't get any of the photos in there because they're not stored on the device. Those are sent into the encrypted cloud. Um, and I think if you were to upload photos into that camera, they wouldn't be photos taken by that camera. And I be
kind of obvious that they weren't legit in my opinion. >> Yeah. Something, Commissioner. >> Not not for um >> Thank you. Um, what if what if we added the caveat like Commissioner
Warick was saying to the to the passing of this if we were going to pass it that we have some sort of safeguard in place or we're just leaving it wide open if we don't. >> It's already been approved before. We're
just fixing a pol policy that was broken in the past, but we could do it with a caveat that um which Mr. Enfinger is going to send to us the policy we currently have and then I would say it could come to us if we want to add anything to it.
>> So procedures, no, it's it's not a policy of the city. It's procedural for staff. Um yes, you can all get it, review it, give some comments to to give some suggestions on how you'd like it. But tonight, we're not approving the cameras. We're just ratifying a
contract. So, don't think there's any reason to add a caveat of how the the cameras are used. It's ratify the contract or not and then go back and >> I I meant the caveat that it would be sent to us and we would review the the current policy. I mean, we can prove the
agreement tonight, but with a caveat that we'll it'll come to us for review on the policy current policy uh with the flock cameras. So you all don't approve uh police policies though. No, >> you improve the employee policy manual,
but the police policies are interdep departmental. >> Right. Additional public commentary. I can tell by the comments that you're not clued in on what the problem is. The problem isn't risk. The problem is rights and violation of rights.
You do, as per the Supreme Court ruling in 2018, the Campbell case, you do not give up all your rights as a citizen just because you're in public. You don't give up your right to privacy just because you're in public. You still have a right to privacy.
I'm here to I'm here to persuade Jamie and I can't tell Pat. Pat Pat is a good would be a good poker player, but Sam, both of you, because I can tell that you want to pass this, and I can't tell Jesse either. Kind of seems like Jesse's balancing it both ways. But you are
public servants. As as public servants, we as the citizens can get to know you. Everything that we want to know about you up to a point we should be able to know. But we are private citizens and you have no right to our personal
information and to our privacy. Zero. So um to catch you up uh there's a there was a ruling last month in the state of Washington in Saget County Superior. A Saga County Superior Court judge said that all data that's collected by Flock
is open to a public records request. That's in the state of Washington. It's different here. This means that anybody can request a license their license plate data from all flock cameras in this state. The judge made an important statement
um in the court documents. The court document says, quote, "An agency does not have to possess the record for the for the record to be subject to the public records request." He made the statement because of the uh shell game
that our acting chie uh chief of police just played um that police agencies play um where they claim that they do not have access to flock camera information, so they can't provide it to anybody.
Now, I know that this shell game is being played because I requested um a few weeks ago, I requested the on November 18th, my public records request was for all information from Flock I
didn't know was held for 30 days um from the surveillance cameras from Lyn Haven, including number of hits, number of searches, category of search reasons, stolen cars, be on the lookout for, and so forth. Uh and the flock um surveillance information
uh main contract asked for the contract. I received a response soon thereafter which read our acting police chief has advised that quote the number of hits, number of searches, search reasons, etc.
are not stored or maintained by Linhaven police. And that's true. But he has access to it. they have access and they own that information for 30 days. So, I'm making a public records request. I want every single one of you. Uh my public record request is for you to
release the 30 days for the Bay County Sheriff, Chief Enfinger, and everybody up here. If the city is not willing to do that, I would like each of you individually to release, you can ask the last 30 days of each of your personal
vehicles. At that point, we can talk about it either at your your restaurant, Sola, the church, we can go to chicken place, we can go to Victoria's, wherever Chris likes to go. We can talk about your 30 days worth of data and
everything that flock has on you. Thank you. >> Mr. Switz, sir, if you would clarify your public records request. >> This records request is for each of these individuals on the commission. I would like to have access to the
documentation from flock and if we can get the sheriff's too because he's involved and chief fingers if it's not available I'd ask each of you to voluntarily
release that information. Thank you. No, >> I think that that's it. >> All right. Let me get Mr. Scay and then I'll come back to you, sir. Joys of democracy and you guys having a
balance as Commissioner War said, safety, security, and rights as Mr. Switzer has pointed out. Um, on the safety and security side, we're balancing out things like the Lee Nygard incident in Kansas. I don't know if any of you guys heard of that a couple years
ago on the news, but a police chief searched his ex-girlfriend's plate using flock 164 times and her new boyfriend 64 times over the period of several months. initially misrepresenting these searches, claiming they were for legit
legitimate law enforcement purposes, eventually coming clean. When she she made a complaint, the city investigated it and found it all to be true and accurate. Um, I emailed while listening to you guys talk, I emailed to the city
uh interim city manager and the deputy police chief a simplified policy that covers proper behavior. Um, great template for them to start with the glory of AI. I know you
don't like it, Commissioner Tinder, but it's useful if you use it right. Um, we don't want as citizens and as commission, we shouldn't want people to be misusing the data. A strong policy cannot prevent that, but it can hold them in consequence.
Um, that's what you guys are looking for. Tonight's action is purely administrative of a procurement nature. You're ratifying an a unauthorized commitment. Needs to be ratified if you want to continue using the service. If you want the policy put in place, work
with your city manager, your interim city manager. Ensure that that individual who you appointed, at least three of you voted to appoint him, have him put policies in place to help the city prevent these kinds of problems. Now, as far as what um Mr. Switzer was
talking about, yes, in Florida, flock data is public record. You can all submit a public records request to CJ with your plate number and ask for any data out of Flock that had hits on your plate number for the last 30 days. Flock
as a company says that that data is available. It's stored for 30 days. So, you should be able to get it any kind of hits, images, timestamps, GPS coordinates of the readers, um audit logs. What you cannot get is I can't I
can't go in and ask for your guys's uh records. I can ask for my own. So the city when they're fulfilling these public records requests, there should be some level of requirement for somebody who's requesting the record to prove that it's their own record. You can't
just go request anybody's record. There's already in Florida statute there's certain protections on these records and that's what you guys need to be aware of. So, if you're unfamiliar with what flock data you can and can't release to the public, please research that before you start fulfilling
requests. Thank you. >> Mr. Langford, >> good evening. Um, so this is kind of a a weird one. I didn't really expect as much push back on this, but uh look, I at my house,
there's cameras. Uh you come on my property, you'll be recorded, okay? I got some property out in the middle of nowhere. Same thing. In fact, today I got a notification on my phone. As soon as it happens, it sends it to my phone, right? So, I click on it and it's some
dogs running around, right? No big deal. Just delete it. Move on with my life. The reason I have those cameras up is for surveillance. I want to know who's on my property when they get there, when they leave, and I want to know what's going on while they're there. Um,
[clears throat] and I it sounds like to me from from hearing acting chiefinger speak, it we've got a security mechanism in place within our city. We know who's coming in our city. Um, and uh, and I I like that.
Um, I want to know who's coming in my home. I've got a lock on my door as well. I like to keep my door locked. So, they get past my cameras and they get past my lock. Well, I've got my own police force in the house as well. So,
um, bottom line here is is I I I want the security that that we have right now. Um, thank you for for making this right by by ratifying this through the commission the way it should have been done in the first place. I appreciate that. Um, but um, I know if that were
the the the child that got abducted, that would have been my daughter, I would have wanted this in place and I'm willing to give up whatever it is that I need to give up data wise in order to be able to protect maybe some of your children as well. Um, there's risks
associated. We, you know, we, you've spoke eloquently to that. Thank you. Um, but really it I mean there there's other ways that things that could happen that the the rogue police officer that searched his ex-girlfriend's plate number. I mean, you know, they don't
need a flock camera to do that. They want to surveil an ex. They're going to do that regardless if they have a flock camera or not. So, bottom line, I think, you know, we really peel back this onion. If people have bad intentions, they're going to do bad things. whether
we use a flock camera or not. So, please don't reduce the security of our city. Please don't take a tool away from our law enforcement uh personnel that do an outstanding job at protecting us citizens. Thank you.
>> Additional commentary. >> Did you have anything, Miss Laura? I'd like to say that this is a slippery slope because when you start implementing this kind of camera then and you put it on a major roadway that's
pretty understandable and I you can easily access data for you know car robberies or whatever but I think that it it can quickly uh go from major roads to maybe schools and then neighborhoods
and then oh it's on your block. So if we start doing this now, where does it stop? If we take this one step in this direction, where does that stop? And I think we need to figure that out before we keep renewing contracts like this. Um
and uh speaking to uh what um the police chief was saying is that he said that they needed a reason when they searched the license plate reader. And that seems like a really low standard um when normally you would need reasonable reasonable suspicion, probable cause or
a warrant to uh get access to data like that. Um and then uh another point I wanted to make is that because this is a computer and it's has AI integrated with it. Um I think that in the future we are looking
at things like AI, facial recognition software which is even a a further u infringement on our privacy. So I think I think we need to be thinking about the future and you know where does this stop? If it's reading our our license plate, is it going to start reading our face? Is it going to start looking at
our clothes etc etc. Um and um another thing I wanted to say was if we are allowing our uh policemen access to this information and they can easily search data, I think that we need to think of them as people too as
citizens. And would we allow the everyday citizen access to this kind of information? Probably not. Um because they are people too. They are prone to you know also making mistakes. And um so for these reasons I I think that we should really reconsider uh our
relationship with water. >> Right. Thank you. Um and maybe this is a question for interim city manager or Miss Meyers. Um, if we wanted to, I understand
we're ratifying this, but if we wanted to incorporate some of what's been mentioned tonight by our citizens and some type of policy document, would these just be suggestions that we would give to the police department for them to include in their um policy and
procedures as how they as to how they look at flock? I know they're going to send it to us for us to review. will we respond back saying, "Hey, these are some of the things we would like to see or if we wanted to ensure that we don't put flock cameras on, you know, uh,
residential streets and such, is that something that we would do as a commission or is that something that we would just encourage and ask for the police department to put in their policies and procedures?" So, I'd like to do a little bit more research on this because my understanding is that right now the
statute that authorizes the use of these license plate readers only allows them on the state highway system. So, you're already li the city is already limited as to where they are permitted to go. It's also my understanding and I could be wrong, but again, this is why I'd like to do a little bit more research is
that the city has to get a permit from DOT to even put up those cameras in the city. So I feel like there is already a second level of um accountability to make sure that they go where they are permitted to go. If there is further action, if there is in fact um
discretion as to where they can be placed and there is a concern that they could go on city roads that are not on the state highway system, um I would like to be able to tell you that for sure because I do think a policy at that point would be appropriate for the commission to give direction to the police department as to where these are
located and give your citizens that comfort too as to your expectations of where they'll go. >> Okay, great. Could you include that in your report for the next commission meeting? Mhm. >> Um and that'll provide some clarity for everyone in that regard.
>> Mayor, I would add to that when acting chiefinger sends out the policy tomorrow, the existing um back to the car markings, for example, he is an open book. I mean, he's very receptive and open. So if you all read something in there and make a suggestion, I'm not
saying that it will be implemented in the policy, but he will definitely look at that as long as it fits their accreditation and the FDLE standards and see if it can be incorporated into the policy. >> Right. Thank you. Um, awesome. Additional public commentary.
Right. You call the vote. >> Commissioner Ward. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perto. Yes, >> Commissioner Tinder. >> I got to say no. >> Mayor Nelson. >> Yes. Motion passed. Um, we've been
meeting for I guess 2 hours almost 20 minutes now. So, I'm going to take a 5m minute break and then we'll be back. 03 p.m. Picking up with agenda item number 17. Discussion and possible approval of
resolution 2025 12498 to award RFQ 25.2603 2603 for banking services to Hancock Bank and Ammeris Bank and to sign the relevant contracts. If you'll read that, please. >> A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, accepting proposals from
Hancock, Whitney Bank, and Ammeris Bank for the city's banking services. >> Good evening. Um, so we issued the solicitation on October 10th. It closed on the 31st. We received five proposals
in total. uh two were deemed non-responsive immediately and then the remaining three were evaluated by the evaluation committee. Um from there that's where we the conclusion was that uh Hancock Whitney was first mayor's bank was second and smart bank was
third. So, uh, we've elected to essentially keep things a as is with with Hancock taking the number one spot and having their accounts that they're currently managing already and they're retaining the accounts they have.
All I have is there questions. >> So, these are the same two banks if we were to Yeah. >> Have you had any issues with these banks? >> Okay. >> All right. Any additional questions? All right. Is there a motion for this?
>> A motion to approve. >> Second. >> Second. >> All right. Motion by Commissioner Perno. Second by Commissioner Tinder. Oh, that was Peebles. Okay. My bad. >> It's all good. I don't need the credit.
>> Um, comments from the public. >> Yes, sir. Mr. Walker, >> you want us to get a different bank? get up there so I can hear. Sir, was that >> you want us to get a different bank? You don't you don't like Hancock or Ammeris? >> No, I I I discussed this uh if this
deals with uh number 17, uh the bank. Okay. U two citizens did attend the meeting that was closed to the public. Part of it was closed to the public and part of it was open. uh we had to leave but it was
pointed out about the uh RFQ and I just discussed with the finance officer there and the America Maris Bank has been put in charge of two accounts. This approves those accounts which were unknown
and puts them under their direction. That's two accounts. They were uh done by by the police department and actually were unknown and we discussed them at that meeting and those those
saying you're you're approving those accounts. Okay. And then you're assigning it to one bank. It has two accounts. That's what you're doing. >> May I speak to that? Mayor,
>> may I speak to that? >> Yes. >> We do indeed currently have two accounts at ais. One has a little bit more than $5 million. It has been there since before I was employed by the city. The second account is one of the police
accounts. It's called unclaimed evidence. It has been there since 2018. That's the first record I can find of it. So we are continuing existing accounts with a mirror and hand >> and again mayor those bank accounts they
weren't not known those bank accounts were known about the entire time it's just how they were utilized. >> Okay. >> May I ask a question? >> Yes. >> What is the 5 million in the marriage? What is what account? >> It's general operating money. >> It's what? >> General operating money.
>> Okay. Right. >> Additional comments from the public. My name is Tim Prather with Hancock Whitney, senior vice president there and the city's relationship manager. I'll keep it short and sweet, but I just wanted to come thank you all for the opportunity. Uh, and thank thank you to
the committee for the recommendation. We're looking forward to continuing uh working with the city hopefully. Uh, we value the relationship and partnership and forward to uh another four-year term. We have a couple veterans that are on the commission. Is there any way you can
give us a veterans discount on this? >> Up to come see us. We'll give you some options. >> Um, additional questions, comments. If you'll call the role. >> Commissioner Peeles.
>> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Commissioner War? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson? >> Yes. Motion passed. Right. Discussion and possible approval of res resolution 2025 12495 approving
cooperative piggyback agreement with Warner Landscape Source Incorporated for supply and delivery [clears throat] of book purchase of sod. >> A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving an agreement with Warner Landscape Source Incorporated for the purchase of sod at the unit prices
more fully described in the body of the quote and agreement. So, we had a few uh opportunities that were identified for piggybacks from PCB. Uh, this just happened to be the one that kind of made the most sense to, you
know, get off the ground. Uh, it has currently been extended out till January of 2027, I believe. So, we're good until that point. And this just gives us a uh a strategic sourced supply of sod uh installation is not part of this
package. It's just the sod being delivered. Um if if it was a large quantity that would need installation, that would be a different >> um any questions? >> I would just like to say that I talked to the uh Chris Lightoot about this. Um
and one the two things that I like about it is that uh based on what he said that the reason we're piggybacking is it would allow us to lock in prices. And then also the main thing that I like about it the most is that it's by an ad
uh by need basis. So it's not a hey here's $20,000 whether we use it or not. Here's $20,000. It's up to a certain amount. We'll use it as needed. So if we don't spend the money, we don't spend the money.
>> That's a perfect point. Um, >> is there a motion for this? >> I make a motion we accept. >> A second. Motion by Tinder. Second by Peebles. Comments from the public.
She'll call the role. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peebles? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perno? >> Yes. >> Commissioner War? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson? >> Yes. Motion passed. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 202512497
approving tetrtech change order 16 for task order 12082018 FRS Hurricane Michael Linhaven the FEMA public assistance consulting services resolution of the city of Linhaven Florida approving a change order to the
city's contract with Tetratech Incorporated related to FEMA public assistance consulting services extending performance time and approving additional funds for services in an amount of $24,935. Mayor, I'd like to answer a couple of questions that were brought up during
public commentary. >> Yes. >> Um, this Tetra Tech is nothing related to Panhandle Engineering. Panhandle Engineering and Tetrate Tech were partnered up with debris monitoring that Tetrate Tech performed during the hurricane recovery. This is not debris monitoring. This is for the public
assistance programs. Also, it was a comment was made about we're seven years later and still doing this. Hurricane Katrina took over 10 years to complete their entire recovery. So, it's nothing out of the ordinary. We're seven years to still be down this road. Um, so I
think that answers everything that people brought up about this item during public commentary, but it's just continuing on to work through our FEMA reimbursement submittals. >> And correct me if I'm wrong, I know we talked about this before, but this is reimburseable. It is part of the category Z that um Miss Roman can speak
on a little further. >> We uh up to a point. Yes, we are working with FEMA to find out exactly how much of the category Z uh is going to be reimbursed. We had originally thought all of it will be
our latest information is no, they will not reimburse 100% but I cannot tell you what the cap will be. Um, as I've described to you in the past, we have a number of um, steps that have to be
concluded. Our next step is to um get a [snorts] a CO for the facilities maintenance building. Then that once that is presented as a closed project, then the state will determine
on the interest or excuse me on the insurance allocation and the legal fees. This we've got two more years of this. I just want to warn you this is not something that we can just shut down. We're going to be discussing these
projects for another two years before we're completely closed down. >> Thanks. Thanks for the great news. Appreciate it. >> Adding on to that too, mayor, you cannot do this by yourself. So you have you have to have a company helping you with the public assistance. So it's not
something that can be performed by in-house staff without the out without an outside consultant. The city is required to have this consultant. >> Yeah. All right. Additional questions for Mr. Light foot. Miss Roman.
>> No. The requirement question is the one I had. So, thank you. >> All right. Um, is there a motion for this? Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. Motion by Commissioner War, second by Commissioner Pero. Comments from the public.
Right. If you'll call the vote. >> Commissioner War. Yes. >> Commissioner Perno. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Peoples. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder. >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson. >> Yes. Motion passed. >> Discussion and possible approval to authorize in city manager to execute
task order with Dubberry Engineers in the amount of 65,35162 for the 24th Street storm water improvements design. Yes, sir. This was a project that was originally an HMGP project from 2019. It was not funded through the HMGP program. Staff worked
to budget it as part of uh the fiscical year 26 storm water budget. Received a proposal from Dubberry Engineers in the amount of amount of 65,35162. Only the funds for design are in the budget for this year. So we will get the design completed. Again, another project
we will likely talk about Friday during the CIP workshop and the future plan for construction. >> All right. There any questions about this? I know I talked to the city manager about this. This is going to be expensive one. So, this is going to hurt
a little bit, but um something we're going to have to do. There's just no way around it. >> Additional comments, questions. >> It's not it's not something that we can't still take a swing at getting a grant or getting funded another way. Correct.
>> I'm sorry. What was that? It's not the we're not suns setting on the on on saying that we have to do the whole project ourselves. We're still trying to get grant money somehow some way. >> There is no grant money for design. There's nothing that >> No, no, not for design, but the project
itself. >> We would likely submit this project as well as the Dundee crossing that's already designed. We would submit these as a package for some possible grant funding. No guarantee that we're going to get any though for construction.
>> Would the design cost go against matching funds on a on a grant? >> It can. Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Dependent on the grant. >> Okay. >> All right. Is there a motion for this? Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. Motion by Commissioner [clears throat] War, second by
Commissioner Perno. Comments from the public. >> Yes, sir. How does this project uh fit into the uh Stantech storm water mitigation plan? >> So the project was funded this year for
design. There is no funding in the Stantech plan for construction. Construction is likely to be easily $750,000 for this. We're up to about 2.6 6 million a year on the storm water nonadvalorum assessment with probably
six or seven projects um well above 2.6 million to accomplish. Um so there is no construction as part of the storm water assessment for this a project like this. >> Additional questions >> Thomas if we don't do this then what
happens? So, if we have no design, the corrugated metal pipe is already failing. If we get into where the road collapses because the pipe failed, we either shut 24th Street down or we come to you all with an emergency repair without a design. If we move
forward with a design, we can hopefully stay ahead of the pipe failing and the road falling in. >> So, that's why I bring it up to make sure everyone understands the severity of this. All right. Additional public comments. Right. If you'll call the vote.
>> Commissioner Wart, >> yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peoples, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. Motion passed. Discussion and possible approval of interim policy and procedure memorandum regarding take-home
vehicles and reporting vehicular accidents. >> Hey, evening. >> Good evening. And thank you, Commissioner Tender, for recognizing we this um interim policy that we are operating under is actually bringing a a cost savings to the city. I've been
working on this for about two years to make sure the city was in line with IRS code and also attorney general's opinions related to take-home vehicles. This helps this establishes our alignment with those two areas, the IRS
and also the attorney general. And also we added some clarification about reporting accidents that there was not a value associated with reporting an accident. If a city employee is in a ve vehicular accident they need to report
it and they need to be drug tested and that puts this in place as well. >> All right. Additional questions. I I have a question about on call status like on uh is this on police cars too or is this not on PL?
>> Our police officers still take their vehicles home. However, the policy has been revised in within the police department where they cannot use the vehicles off duty nor have family transported um in the vehicle as you can see in the in the police department.
>> Okay. So the fire police fire on call still has access to a vehicle. >> Yes, sir. >> Yes. They're considered first responders, which is um considered exempt from the IRS requirements. And that also under the attorney general's opinion, there is a municip municipal
purpose for them having take-home vehicles. >> All right. Additional questions? Is there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. Comments from the public.
If you call the vote. >> Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Ward, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. Motion pass. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 2025
12501 to substantially update and revise the city's procurement policies. A resolution of the city commission of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving an amended and restated purchasing policy manual, repealing all resolutions
or policies in conflict herewith, and providing an effective date. So this policy is the result of several months effort um of staff to try and align current practices concerns of the
commission um and to um some policies that we feel like are good best practices for the city um going forward. It is not none of us will tell you that it is a finished product or that it is a perfect product. We recognize that there's still work to be done, but we
think it's a good place to start and um I think we're all collectively proud of the effort we put into it. We think it's a lot better than what we've got currently. Um but we recognize too that our work is not done and there is still room for improvement. And before you even adopt this, I want to tell you that
we've already got plans to come back to the table um in the next six months to pick up the pieces that we know still need to be addressed. Um but with that said, um we do think it provides clarity to staff, um particularly with regard to
soul source and emergency procurements. Um and then the tri the $35,000 threshold that triggers commission approval and competitive procurement requirements. Um I feel like I have received questions about who approves what. Did it need to be approved by the
commission? And so we've tried to um clarify that for you and for the staff and for the public who is reading it. Um the $35,000 threshold um is existing. We didn't tweak that. That's been the current threshold that we inherited and
started with. So we're not recommending you change that at that at this point. Um but you certainly can. Um anyway, with with that said, um you there's a lot that's different. It's a lot shorter. We gutted a lot of the procedures. Um but
um we'll be working with staff to also create that procedural manual to flesh out some of the forms and documentation that this policy requires. >> If this is approved tonight, we also have a training schedule for January 9th with with the directors in the in the
morning and then the superintendent and other staff members that utilize any procurement that afternoon. So, in order to be able to work through this, that is one thing we need the staff to be able to do is to utilize the new policy, go
through it, find loopholes, find things that need fixing, and go from there. >> All right. Any other questions? So, uh, more so a statement is that I liked hearing that we recognize that it's not a finished
product because, um, obviously this is a great thing and, um, I think it is important to go ahead and have something officially in place with the idea that it's tweaked six months from now or whatever because just so happens we have
some procurement professionals that have been in contact with us with offering their expertise and um, uh and just continue to work and make it better as it goes because I think it's important to have something in place now officially and continue to work on it as
we go rather than wait till it's perfect to vote yes on it is my opinion. I'd rather have something um that's I'd rather have an update or an upgrade than nothing at all and then to wait. I think
it'll protect us better. >> Any other questions, comments? >> Um, just I know a lot of work went into this, so I appreciate uh staff um for everything they did. Um, I did send a lot of questions to Mr. Life. I think you forwarded that to the rest of
mistaken. >> Not to the rest of the commission, to the rest of the group that's been working on the >> Oh, okay. >> Okay. My apologies. So, um, and he answered, um, pretty much answered all my questions. One of the things that I
think me and Mr. Lightoot disagree on, and I I wanted to bring it up for discussion is, um, change orders. So, before in the old policy, it it it talked about change orders, and there was a 10% threshold um, for um, change orders. It doesn't
have anything in here for change orders. Um, and you can I don't want you probably explain a whole lot better than I can about how it would be in the contract as far as a not to exceed amount. Um, me personally, I think I think it needs to be spelt out in here.
Um, where I want to keep it at 10% because I don't think oh 10% and a certain amount threshold whichever is less like Panama City does. Um, if you want to explain. >> So, I'm going to go back to the uh to
item 20 and use that as an example. So, you all recently approved the task order with Dubberry Engineers in the amount of $65,351.62, meaning we cannot go over that amount. Once everything is signed, staff will put put those attachments in. They'll
put the requisition in. We will have a a PO issue to do bearing. If it was a project that we needed potential contingency money on, we would have done in the resolution resolution to approve the amount of $65,35162 with a contingency of 10% or a
contingency of a dollar amount not to exceed $5,000, whatever is more fitting for the project. We took it out of the policy to be able to put it on an as needed basis per project. For example, if we have a $50 million wastewater treatment plant, we didn't want to leave
it in the policy that you have 10% leeway for change orders. So, if we were to build a $50 million wastewater treatment plant, we would bring the the contract to you all. We would approve by resolution to award to contractor X in the amount of $50 million with a
contingency of $250,000. If we hit that contingency amount, we have to bring it back before the commission. That is the intent of not having the the 10% threshold in the purchasing policy and doing it per projects as you all award it.
Did I hit that right? So [clears throat] I think the important thing to remember if we do it that way which we can do it that way we as a commission need to be cognizant every time we look at a
contract that you look at the um not to exceed amount. Um, and I'm I'm not worried. I'm not just worried about the now, but I'm worried about the future, you know, cuz administrations change, different people
getting put in different leadership positions. My my concern is to protect the city by making sure we have certain verbiage in there. So, the way Panama City has in theirs is they have uh not to exceed 10% of the contract price or
the cumulative cost exceeding $100,000, whichever is less. So, um so let's say you got >> [snorts] >> um $20 million project and 10% of that would be 2 million. Well,
you you if anything was over $100,000, then it would have to come to the commission. But if you had something that's a million or let's say it's $10,000, what's 10% of that? It's $1,000. That makes sense. So, I I'm what I'm
trying to contemplate is is it important for us to put that in writing to protect the city or should we do it the way that Mr. Lightfoot described? So I guess right now we're doing it per this policy. The way that you've described is how
>> the existing policy before before this one is approved states that 10% leeway. So if you approve a a contract for $100,000, the current policy says that I can add $10,000 onto it without you all knowing. We are trying to get away from that and have it where the
resolution states you approved $100,000 contract with a contingency of not to exceed $5,000 or 5% or 10% or whatever you all put in. We all Commissioner War and I also talked about the auto renewals on on contracts. Um you if you
all have a contract that you approve and in that contract that has language that you can auto approve it on a two-year term for an additional two two-year terms or two one-year terms. With all due respect, staff is doing their job. The commission has to do their job as
well. Make sure they read the contract and are approving the contract based on all the languages that's in there, not just the contract amount. So, it has to be commissions six commissions from now. If they're still going by this policy, they have to read the contract. They
have to know what the terms are that they're approving. If they want to approve a contract but don't want to approve the the renewal term, they can ax that out and city attorney can change the terms uh before you all approve it with a resolution. >> The renewal one I think I understand
because there are certain contracts that renew every year like the it thing. I think that's every year, right? Or not it, uh, uh, cable and internet and stuff like that. That's every year, right? >> I'd have to go back and look, >> but you know what I mean? That so that
makes sense to me. So, uh, to leave it the way it is so that we just got to be cognizant that we look in there and we're okay with the renewal period. But what you're you're talking about the way you want to do it, the way you want to do it based on a based on a a project
amount and the the percentage or dollar amount that you're going to that you're going to put as a as a threshold or not to exceed and you're doing a percentage straight. No >> percentage or dollar amount whichever is
less >> percentage or dollar amount. And you're just doing a dollar amount. >> We're not doing any. We removed it from we started >> we removed it completely but you would accept a dollar amount is what you were just saying. >> I would accept leaving it at 10%. But we started this as trying to be as
transparent as possible. So the the working group's thoughts were >> what's going to keep it closer to the bone on every project? >> Not having it in there in my opinion and bringing it to every contract you have an approval of the contract amount with the contingency amount.
>> May I? or if you all do not approve a contingency. >> May I also add that um it's not just for projects, for all purchase orders. In the current purchasing policy, we have a 10% leeway. So, if a director puts in a
a purchase order for $2,000, you're really putting in a purchase order for $2,200. If you run with the verbiage that you've got in this document, that is no longer the case. Purchase order goes in for 2,000. All they can spend is 2,000. It's
not just the big projects. It's all purchasing. >> That also triggers somebody were to put in a a requisition for $3,400 and then all of a sudden do a change order putting it over that $3,500 threshold. Well, they put it in under 30 at $3,400
not getting three quotes. Now all of a sudden it's over the $3,500 threshold. So this is getting away from all of that. >> All right. So from listening I think the intent is very good. It's just I don't listening
to it I don't see it written what the intent is. Um so like for example, Commissioner War what he's saying then the intent is very clear based on the percentage of dollar amount saying well in the future I mean
we're you know you got to do your job and and read the read the contracts. Well you would like to hope the intent is that people would actually do that but when you write a policy you have to you have to write that in there. And um
one of my favorite quote quotes um about policies is by Milton Freriedman. It says one of the the greatest mistakes is to judge policies by intent rather than results. So we need to not have we can't
just leave it to the intent. Well, yes, the intent is excellent. Very very good. We have to write what that intent is. I think what I'm hearing Chris say is the intent is that we've had concerns that
we have not been aware of certain changes and purchases and that hasn't always been brought back to the commission and that seemingly we've gone over budget. So now what staff is doing is giving us what we've
asked for, which is, hey, we're going to allow you to tell us how much we can spend on this particular project. Therefore, if the project goes over and we haven't approved any type of contingency amount, they have to come back to us to get more money in order
for us to approve it instead of saying, "Hey, it's 10%." Um, I do understand what you're saying, but that's going to be with any project, any contract. I mean, we got almost 250 pages here now. So, you know, either we read it or we don't. Um, so I
think I think that's what I hear as the intent is is really not so much, hey, read and do your job as much as we've asked that we become more engaged in the purchasing process and that we become more transparent about what we know is being purchased. And so, by them
presenting it to us like this as it is now, it then put it does put the onus on us. And I think that's what I'm hearing him say is the responsibility is on us to be engaged and be in, you know, um, actively engaged in what's happening with the contracts and what's happening
with the purchase policy so that we can make, you know, better decisions on that um, as it relates to that. So I think that's what I hear the intent is is >> Yes, sir. Like we'll go back to the one that was approved tonight. So, if we get to the end of the project and the total
spent was $75,000, the auditors go through their annual audit, this is triggered. Hey, the commission approved $65,351 December 9th. You approve, you signed off on a change order and had accounting increase the PO $10,000. That throws the
red flag. At that point, it would be disciplinary action for you all to take on me for going $10,000 above what you all approved. Whereas if we approved it with a contingency or had it in this purchasing policy, we could do the 10%. >> Yeah.
>> So finance would not approve that. Just so that you're aware, um whatever you vote on, that's what finance will put through the purchasing um system. Um I would encourage you to seriously consider approval tonight. Again, as the
city attorney said, this may not be perfect, but it's much better than what we had, and I would like to get it in place. As the person who's going to be dealing with this the most, uh, I would truly appreciate if you give us this step forward. We can come back to you in six months. Hopefully, we'll have
identified some areas for improvement. We'll have input from staff. We can have more input from you, and we can make whatever adjustments you need. It's >> Yeah. So, with that, I would like to propose that I hear what Commissioner War is saying, and I do want to continue
that conversation, and I promise that I will if you bring it up because I want to work that out with you. But I also want to acknowledge what the staff has done to put this together for us, and I want to have it in place, but I also want to have the promise that we're
going to continue to massage it as time goes, and relatively soon. I've already got a running list of things we still need to address or flesh out even more. >> You can make it a part of your motion if you want to. I make a motion and then
we, you know, add in six months, we come back for a particular review or something of that nature. >> At a six-month deadline, we can notice it in the minutes and make sure it's on the agenda within a six month on or before the six month mark.
>> Yeah, sure. I'll make a motion to approve with the condition that we re-evaluate in six months. >> Is there a second for this? >> Second. >> Right. Motion by Commissioner Peele,
second by Commissioner Perno. Yes, sir. >> [clears throat] >> Um, as I was pointed out by Commissioner Peoples, I appreciate the responses I got on the inputs I made. I want to greatly bring to public attention. Greatly
appreciate Chris's time for sitting down with me and going through this policy verbatim. A lot of what I recommended, he included. I shared with the commission and with Chris things that are still missing in my opinion of 16 years of experience doing this kind of stuff. I trust the city to get get it
back in six months and have a better product. You're never going to have a perfect policy. The company I work for has changed our procurement policy 11 times in three years. It's just you're always finding ways to improve and streamline and be more efficient. On the
topic of the change orders though, um I have to actually disagree with Commissioner War. Write that down in the history books. It's a rare thing, but uh you guys asked for more transparency, and this is how you're getting it with what Mr. Lightfoot described. Um you're
going to be reviewing a total not to exceed amount including contingencies. One penny over that amount is a violation. Um so you're you're approving a total amount. That's the total amount that the finance department would be
saying yes, if all contingencies occur, this is the balance that is available for this project. So, he's giving you what you're asking for. So, let's try it out. Um, one thing I would ask if it's not too much of a burden to the city is to um, track a
little bit of metrics in the next six months of this policy being implemented, particularly how long things are taking from first request to award, seeing those timelines, seeing if you have bottlenecks, things like that. Metric tracking is what's going to create more
efficiency. And we know the government is at all levels very inefficient. So, let's try to track some of that if we can just from cradle to award. Um, also, um, I just want to make sure that as we
approve this one, do we have a checklist now? I know I've been harping on you about that, Chris. Do we have a file checklist that says everything that will be in a file? >> The proceed So, we have a checklist. Yes. But the procedures are the next step. getting all of our requisition
procedures, check request procedures, owner direct purchase procedures, credit card procedures, all of those. >> Okay, I'll wait until July to start asking for those then. Thank you. >> Is that accurate on what he said about the the way you guys wrote the policy on
the not to exceed? >> So, right now the policy is silent on change orders. So the only way to make it transparent and to address it is per contract per resolution before you every time. >> Yeah. So it comes to us every time.
>> Okay. That that gives me the warm fuzzies as they say. So thanks everybody. Now I guess one question would be and maybe that's so we're working on a project again for
example the $65,000 project. We're working on that and we don't have a commission meeting for another two weeks and you need something done. Is there like an emergency meeting that we need to have? I guess depending on what the project is or do you just stop working on the project or
>> so, >> you know, when a change order is needed? >> Great question. So, if it was a construction project, there likely would have been a a contingency in the resolution for approval. if it was 10% or $5,000 or whatever it was. You can't
build a $20 million wastewater treatment plant, for example, without some contingency money. It's not possible. So, there will always be some type of contingency that's built in when you all approve it that you're approving originally. >> Got it. All right. Additional comments.
All right. If you'll call the vote. >> Commissioner Peebles. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero. >> Yes. >> Commissioner War. Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder. >> This is what you wanted, right? Yes. >> Mayor Nelson.
>> Yes. Motion pass. All right. Discussion and possible approval of Friday, January the 2nd, 2026 as an administrative leave day for employees. >> Yes, sir. Governor Dantis recently uh released the holiday schedule for 2026
with January 2nd falling on a Friday this year or next year. Uh we are just requesting to follow the state holidays and be closed uh January 2nd that Friday following. >> Okay. >> Motion to approve. >> Did you say
>> motion to approve? I have a question. >> Hold on. There's a motion on the floor. Hold on one second. Is there a second for that? >> I'll second it. >> All right. Yes, ma'am. >> How much is this going to cost the city? >> Is everybody paid? They'd be paid admin leave, but there's no dollar additional
dollar cost. It's just that they're allowed to not work that day. So, we're paying them for not working. We're we're not out of pocket any additional costs. >> Okay. >> We lose pro.
>> No clocked hours, Miss Tinder. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> All right. Any other questions? Commission. All right. Um, comments from the public. All right. If you'll call the vote. >> Commissioner Perto, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peebles,
>> yes. >> Commissioner Ward, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. Motion passed. Right. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 2025 12499 approving the acquisition of 1208
Carolina Avenue easement. a resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, relating to the acquisition of that certain property located at 1208 Carolina Avenue within the city for maintenance and improvement of the city's storm water utility system, making findings of fact, public purpose,
and necessity, and authorizing the appropriate officers of the city to take the appropriate actions to secure the acquisition of the property if necessary by imminent domain proceedings. So, when I met with you all, I showed you all a map of the existing pipe, and
Miss Kelly is here tonight. She's the one that has the pipe going along her private property. They are damaging uh the pool deck. Um since this item has came out, uh the owner of 1208 Carolina has reached out to myself and Miss Meyers and has is willing to come to the
table um to for us to make the purchase of the easement as presented to him. The funds are in the budget. Uh but we still would like to move forward with this resolution tonight. I've been let down before. So, we want to make sure we have any all appropriate
steps necessary um that if the cell does not go through, we can continue on to get this pipe relocated before it does any further damage to Mr. and Miss Kelly's property. >> That's right. >> Basically, this will be plan B if >> it is now plan B. >> We're keeping the wheels spinning. Keep the wheels rolling on this in case it
the wheels come off. Right. >> Absolutely. >> Well, I'd like to make a motion to approve Is there a second? >> Second. >> Comments from the public. >> Thank you. Good evening. My name is Paulie Michelle Kelly and I want to
thank um thank you for letting me speak. First off, I'd like to thank Mr. Chris um because this has been going on for three years and he has tried repetitively to get this homeowner to um be cooperative. Since this we now have a
sinkhole in our yard and this doesn't only affect us, this affects our whole neighborhood because we live on a culde-sac. So once the water drains down the street, it overflows and goes on around to other neighbors also. So, just to let you know that this is a real
problem and my pool will fall in eventually. >> Thank you. >> Right. Additional comments. >> All right. You'll call the vote. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner Ward, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Peebles, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. Motion pass. All right. discussion and possible approval of resolution 2025 12494 authorizing the interim city manager to sign grant paperwork on
behalf of the city of Linhaven. >> A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida designating Chris Lightfoot as the city's authorized representative for grant related applications, awards, and administration. There was previously a a letter on file
such as this one uh to allow Miss Gainer to sign grant paperwork. We submitted a letter to FDM for a grant extension for one of our HMGB HMGP projects. They rejected it because they do not have a letter on file for me to sign on the
city's behalf from the city commissioner. >> All right, questions about this. >> So, there was a question in public commentary. May it seem like it used to only be the mayor that signed, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
>> That is for contracts. The mayor has to sign contracts as approved by the commission to be attested by the city manager/ >> grants. Okay. >> I'd like to make a motion to approve and get you signed up. All right. Have a motion. Is there a
second? Second. All right. Comments from the public. Mr. Walker. >> That's it. >> Just a quick question. Uh, don't all the directors have the authority to sign and initiate a grant? >> No, sir.
>> You don't? >> No, sir. >> Uh, there's a lot of them doing it. >> Could y'all check in to that to make sure we don't have a lot of directors signing grants that they're not supposed to be signing? >> Yes, sir.
>> Thank you. Yes, sir. >> Hi, Eric Kunman, Connecticut Avenue. Um, I would just like to caution the commission on revising the language in this resolution. As it's written, uh, it gives interim city manager the
ability to sign any grant, federal or state, without commission oversight, which poses a risk to this city. Um, having managed large and small grants, applied for them, been awarded them, I can say that every grant that I managed
require the commission to approve before signed by either the county manager or the chairman of the board. Many of the grants that appear beneficial carry strict requirements and may cost the city substantial staff time or resources and ultimately may not be
worth pursuing. Grant oversight should not be delegated so broadly, whether to an interim or even the permanent city manager, especially given the recent events. Grants often take months to prepare,
gather documentation for, and submit if the approval truly cannot wait for one of the 22 commission meetings throughout the year. and is a problem with the timeliness of the application, not withided need to sign the grant. The commission must be
aware of what grants are being applied for and should give explicit consent during a public meeting that each grant aligns with the city's needs, priorities, and provides transparency to the public. So, I strongly recommend the commission tighten the language in the
resolution to ensure the proper oversight and prevent unnecessary risk to the city. I've been out of uh emergency management for about a year and a half now. So unless anything's changed that I don't know about, a res resolution is not
needed for Chris to sign FDM and D grants. Just a delegation of authority. Thank you. >> Isn't that Isn't that all we're doing here? >> Resolution is approving the delegation of authority. Yes, sir. >> Yeah, that's all we're doing. Delegation of authority.
>> Mr. Gray, >> thank you for your comment, sir. Gray, >> um, I recall in the last 5 years, we had a lot of commission agenda items for pursuing grants and then later for approving grants, which then the city manager would then sign off. Am I
understanding that process correctly before we invest time? You're requesting commission approval to pursue such grants and and that's currently what's in policy. So when at the end of the process when we're awarded the grant,
this is just giving you authority to sign the grant paperwork instead of having to wait for uh who the mayor commissioner right now is the only person >> I would defer to the city attorney, but if the mayor signs anything, the commission has to approve it.
>> That's correct. I >> mean, you're we we've been bringing them to the commission to approve anyway, though, right? So certain ones, yes, we have some things that need signing by for FDM for
our HMGP projects. So we used to have Miss Gainor sign them because there was a delegation of authority on file with FDM. We have not updated that uh since she has been gone. So FDM rejected our signature the other day to finalize the paperwork. >> So what grants is the commission not
going to know that you're pursuing? >> It's not pursuing the grant. It's the paperwork associated with the grants we've already received. >> Okay. So, is it a true statement to say that the commission will always have approved our city's pursuit of a grant before it's pursued
>> or the acceptance of funds for the grant? >> Okay. So, so like he was saying, you could technically invest a bunch of city time and effort into pursuing a grant and the commission wouldn't know about it until we won it. Um we if we win a grant, the city has to
the commission has to accept the award of the grant, >> right? But I recall there was times where the former city manager would ask the commission to pursue a grant. Are there any grants that we don't ask the commission for approval to pursue >> all the time? We had the commission
wanted a grant writer. So we we hired a grant writer two years ago, a year and a half ago. Um, and we pursue grants all the time, whether it's a $5,000 Firehouse Subs grant or a >> But they don't approve every single pursuit. >> No.
>> Okay. And is that what you guys signed up for? I mean, that's part of hiring a grant writer. It's like, go out and find us money, right? >> I guess that's what you guys got to consider here is you really want to wait two weeks on a $2,000 grant for them to go pursue it.
just make us less competitive if you have a delay in the process. >> Anytime you're less efficient, you're less competitive. >> Okay, >> understand his concerns, but you're not changing the existing policy. You're just um putting somebody in place to
sign the things that used to get signed. >> Additional comments. >> Um who is our current grant writer? River Jordan. She met you. She came in your restaurant the other day and had a phone discussion with you >> about >> I'm not sure
>> about you. No kidding. [laughter] >> No, I Yes, I do remember. >> Okay. >> Additional comments. I know that Vicky Gainor was originally hired as a grant writer when she came on board,
but I don't remember what hoops or whatever she had to jump through when she got a grant. I tend to agree with this gentleman, but I don't know. I oversee the grant administration. If
there is a grant that the city is going to go after that has a large match in which the city has to put some funds to in order to meet that grant obligation. That's when that would come to the commission because we need to ask for that potential funding. But there are
several foundation grants that are 100% funded that require no cost to the city. Um, again, maybe a $35,000 firehouse sub grant that provides for equipment. At that point, what we're going to do is pursue that because the time frame is
very, very, very fast in order to submit that grant and get the turnaround that we need. And maybe I'm not thinking outside the box, but I think it would be in the city's best interest to accept a 100% funded
foundation grant that supports some of these um functions and saves the city money. However, if there is a match amount, we have to make sure it is already in the budget before we can apply for that grant. >> I agree with that.
If we constantly our lobbyists are sending a grant that hey I just stumbled across this the deadline is tomorrow we give it to River she submits an application if necessary however even if it is a matching grant we still can't accept the grant even with matching
funds until you all approve the acceptance of the grant >> so we're not committing city to to funds outside of the the budget >> that's why I asked a question if it makes us less um competitive last thing I want to do is lose an opportunity on some I don't want to say free money.
It's never free money, but >> there is no free grant. There is no free lunch. There's always work involved in that. >> And and yes, does it cost the city money to go after grants? Absolutely. We have a grant writer on staff, but that's her job. That's what she does is go after grants.
>> All right. Additional comments. Right. If you'll call the vote. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Commissioner War, >> yes. >> Commissioner Peoples, >> yes. Commissioner Tinder. >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson. >> Yes. Motion pass. All right. Discussion
only about ordinance 1073 relating to smoking in parks. >> All right. I'll make this quick. I promise. So, I'm at the ballparks all the time. And the sign on the ballpark says no smoking
um in accordance with ordinance 173. The reason I looked at it is because I noticed that there were certain coaches or or adults using smokeless tobacco. And so I was just curious. I was like, "Huh, do we cover smokeless tobacco?" But then I found through my research
that back in 2019, uh I think it was that the commission at the time made what I believed to be an excellent um addition, which was that it says anywhere that you can't smoke, you can't vape.
Makes sense to me. Cool. That's great. The problem is nowhere in any of our ordinances does it say if you can or can't smoke or where you can and can't smoke. So if you have an ordinance in place that says you can't vape or you can't smoke, then you need to say where
you can't smoke. So I think I mean there could be, you know, state statutes or whatever that talk about that, but if that's the case, we still need to have that in our ordinance that points to that statute. So, I mean, me personally, I also would like to add no smokeless
tobacco because I think it's disgusting when people are spitting tobacco all over the ball fields. Um, but that's we don't have to have that conversation tonight. I just wanted to I guess really just so that we can all be t have it on our mind maybe so Amy can bring
something to us next commission meeting to make it official. But like I said earlier, we can't just look at the intent of a policy. We have to have it written down so that we have results because I know it says on the website you can't smoke. It does say that on our
website. So that's good. However, what someone says on a website and it's not a legal document. The ordinance is. So if our intent is for people not to smoke in the parks, let's write it in our ordinance. Um >> how how would we enforce that?
>> How would you enforce that? >> Yeah. special police officers going around stopping people or what would you do? >> Well, I mean it really goes back to we already say you can't vape. So, the same way that they're enforcing that >> they're not are they?
>> I don't know. [laughter] >> I'm more talking about from a policy standpoint. >> Yeah. >> Um but uh I mean if they if they want to patrol around and and check for people smoking, sure. Um I'm there all the time so I can call it in.
>> I got it. [laughter] Miss Judy, I know your place is tiny, but I got to walk around in my place and almost almost every day, no one smokes cuz it's a non-smoking restaurant since since we opened June
June 30, 2003 that we opened the day before the smoking law went into effect July 1. But I will correct politely someone at least five to six times a week for vaping in the restaurant. Mhm. >> Someone will be someone will sneak in
there and >> because it seems to be the more of the clandestine thing that that is somewhat I guess acceptable to them but it's still to other people it's still smoke you know still smoking it's electronic
cigarette but whatever whatever it is and but I will I will see that more than I than I would smoking. So >> it's and if that's happening indoors in a 100 seat restaurant, you got to figure outdoors people are going to people are
going to think they have the right to to do that vaping anywhere or what and it could be a nuisance to people who don't, you know. >> Well, I and I think about and I was being serious before when I said how would you ever enforce it? I mean, we have concerts in the park. I I I mean
concerts in the park and everything that goes on. And I can't imagine, don't tear up the equipment. Um I can't imagine how you would ever enforce such a thing. I even though I don't vape and I don't I wouldn't allow it in my restaurant either.
>> I I'll make a comment on that. Um through concerts in the park and our events, I am als I'm often the person who will go up to someone and explain that there is no smoking on city property and that they have to either quit vaping or stop smoking and they've
all been cooperative and done it. I think it's a matter of all of us having to step up and just remind them that under um Florida Fair um Clean Air Act that there is no um that our city has decided that there's no smoking or
vaping in in any of our at any of our city properties. The law has did change in 2022 to preempt to the state the regulation or prohibition of where you can and can't smoke. The city does have some rights still on it particularly in its parks.
Um so we can address your smokeless tobacco and at least in parks. So I can improve the ordinance you've got and can bring you something back to consider. >> Awesome. Thank you. May I just want to ask one question of Kiki?
>> I know this is late. Um, and Chris brought it up earlier and I saw it on Facebook, too, about the check for the referees for the last three sporting events. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Is there a good reason why we didn't why we were holding that check?
>> It was a big long discussion on Facebook. >> I understand. It was not held intentionally. It was a clerical error. They have been paid. The money will be sent EFT and it will be in their accounts tomorrow to take full responsibility. It was a clerical in the
final department. >> Well, thank you. You'll be happy. I hope. >> Yeah. Meeting adjourned.