[Music] Calling our special commission meeting to order at 12:01 uh p.m. At this time, we'll have invocation by our chaplain, Frank Stevens. remain standing after the invocation for the pledge of allegiance.
Heavenly Father, my prayer is for healing the divisions within our city. Bring reconciliation where there is conflict. Bring understanding where there is misunderstanding. Help us to forgive one another and build bridges of love and respect.
Linhaven is a beautiful city, Lord, and we're blessed to live here. Let our hearts desire be to foster a strong community spirit in our city. Encourage us to support one another and work together for the common good.
May we be united in our efforts to create a better place for all residents. Lord, give our city a shared vision for the future where we all come together with common goals and aspirations. May we work collaboratively to achieve a
prosperous and harmonious community in Linhaven. May our collective actions bring about positive change in a live in Linhaven. I speak this in the name of our the name
of Jesus. Amen. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
[Music] All right, we're here to uh discuss take action on city manager employment. Is there a motion? So, I wish I could say a lot more, but as we
know with the the lawsuit going on, uh we got to be careful what we say. But this is what I can tell you. I had at least 33 questions that I asked the people that I talked to.
And some of them had questions to make sure I was thorough. I was scheduled for an hour and I went. So, uh, like I said, I wish I could say more, but I am ready, uh, to make my motion. And my motion, before I make my
motion, I'd like to make a tenative motion because I'm not sure how this is going to go. But my agenda item I'd like to add is if the city manager is terminated, I'd like to discuss how we're going to
fulfill the city manager um position temporarily until that time. All right. Um, do you need a motion for that to add the agenda item? I'll second the motion on the agenda
addition. Okay. All right. Comments from the public. No comments. Uh, city. All right. Yes, sir. Good morning, Mayor and Commissioner. on
the about to 159 North Kimberell Avenue. That motion should be turned down. It should be defeated because in the midst of all this, he's still not sure. Yes, you, Mr. Warick, are still not sure about the motion you want to make. This motion is about not about right and
wrong. It's about your convenience. And that is a shame. You guys that the people of Lin Haven have elected to represent you, you should do a better job. This shouldn't even be an issue. We shouldn't be here right now. On Monday, there should have never been a motion to
continue um investigating or questioning. Your own lawyer sitting to my right, your left, the lawyer from Tallahassee, and the other guy on the phone all told you at least three times that this was a bad idea.
And yet you still continue on with this. I didn't graduate from Princeton, Harvard, or Yale, but common sense would have told me to leave it alone. You jeopardizing the existing lawsuit to appease one man,
and that's absolutely insane. If you look in Webster under stupidity, you'll see doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. Now, I don't know how you sit there with those half dead eyes
and have the unmititigated G to make a statement like that because if this if this part of the statement doesn't doesn't pass and you if you get if you get it on the agenda then you'll then another motive comes forth. Now the next motion will be the fire
bicki that should be resolutely turned down. But yet here we are. You guys talk about the um loss of confidence. The loss of confidence is coming to from your right, my left, the
two commissioners you got sitting on your far left or far right. That's the reason the people are able to have a lack of confidence because they they watch one man influence them to make absolute stupid decisions.
Vicky Gainer saved you $1.9 million by paying off a loan that you were paying $21,000 a month on. You wanted to pay $21,000 a month. I didn't graduate from Horton with President Trump, but I can figure them
numbers out and that don't work. She took your debt from $60 million down to $30 million. If you look around, Linhaven is the most desirable uh location to live in Bay County. [Applause]
I didn't hear nobody from the peanut gallery complaining when Margo and White was rape robbing and pillaging this city at the inst of James Finch. You guys have paid him $42 million for what? Every project he's done has had to be
redone costing your taxpayers, your citizens, your constituents money. I say do the right thing. Thank you. [Applause] [Music] George 603 Roland Avenue citizen Florida
the microphone ain't me. Anyway, my address is on file. I've been here many time before and talked to you people many time before about the things you're doing in the city. Right now, the charter that we reviewed when you got elected has a position in
there for the city manager and assistant city manager. She she make she made one over the time she been here. She assigned someone to that that job and they'll do that job if she get fired. So, there's no need to make that motion that he he tried to make. It's in the charter.
All you need to know. Um and and for clarity uh it is charter section 24 and it says in the absence of a deputy city manager during the absence or disability of the city manager the city commission may designate a person properly qualified and we do have an
assistant city manager. So we will be going against the charter to go beyond our assistant city manager at this particular time if we decide to specifically say assistant city manager just says
city manager in the absence of a deputy city manager during the absence or disability of the city manager. the city commission may designate. It does suggest the commission is without authority to designate a temporary person when you do have a deputy city manager acting. Okay. We'll discuss it when we get to
that agenda item. Then Jody Moore on Amherst Street um about a mile from here and also the Beacon of Bay County, Florida on Facebook. Um you know, just a comment real quick. You know, one of the reasons why Linhaven is such a beautiful and nice place to live
is because of James Finch. He was a benefactor for years and years ex and excuse me, mayor. Mayor, I'm addressing you, chairperson of the committee. Will you please enforce the rules that you yourself have set down
for both sides, please? Hold on. Whenever I do enforce the rules, then everyone has a problem with it, which is part of your recall of me enforcing the rules. You're enforcing the rules. Okay. um you're taking my time. Um I just want to say there have been accusations thrown about about lying and racism. If anybody
wants to discuss this with me, I'll be in the hallway afterwards. So you can you can feel free to address those with me. I'll have a conversation with you. Um I just want to say also regarding Vicky Gainer, it doesn't even have to do with this issue. Understand the lawyer
for the insurance company is doing his job. Number one, you got to think about what's best for Linhaven. Is all this chaos and all this going on? Is this what's best for Linhaven? Maybe the problem needs to go away. I'm not the problem. The citizens who are
here are not the problem. Excuse me. The people who are pointing out the problems are not are not the problem here. Okay. Um there are multiple reasons to fire Vicky
Gainor. Okay. Besides this alleged um which the boat today kind of tells me how the conversation went. Um first of all, Commissioner War has said she won't answer her his financial questions when she he said that in a commission meeting. She won't answer the questions.
Um she also did not tell the commission about Chief Ramy's hit and run when she should have and waited a month. She waited for it to come out in the media. Um, this building, I think it has a sprinkler system now, but it had an inadequate sprinkler system for a long time. Is that safe? Was that safe for
the employees to come in here and work when there wasn't a a sprinkler system that was working? Do we have a a certificate of occupancy in this building 6 years later? Do we have that? I don't care whose fault it is, whatever. That's the that is the job of
the city manager. All right. Um, and I want to know why Vicky Gainor was still in the building for hours after she was suspended. I also want to point out because my time is running out even though I was interrupted. You know what? Somebody who was accused, and she did this on Monday, somebody has accused
this commission and the citizens of racism, how can they be falsely accused of racism, how can they be an effective city manager for this city? I I want you to ask yourself again, what's right for this city? Thank you. All right. All right, assistant city
manager, if you'll call the vote. If we could if we could maintain our the courtroom, please. We're getting ready to call for a vote. I've already called for the vote. I'm sorry. Sir, you're dying me the ability to speak on a motion.
We've just called for the vote. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Warick. Yes. Commissioner Pero. Yes. Commissioner Peoples. Just to confirm, this is to add the agenda item for what?
Yeah. Add it after the discussion of the city manager's employment. Okay. No. Commissioner Tender. Yes. Mayor Nelson. No. Motion carries. Is there a motion to dis um in regards to the city manager
employment? Yes. I make a motion to terminate the city manager effective immediately. All right. Is there a second for that motion? Yes. All right. There's a motion and second. At this time, we'll open up for public
commentary. Please remember to keep your decorum. Uh we'll start with Miss Miller. and I have lived in Lyn Haven over 50 years and I have never witnessed such mess.
All you have to do is look around Lyn Haven since Vicki has been city manager and see the improvement. Look where you're sitting. Because of her, we have this building. I
was at the dedication when the man from Tallahassa said that Miss Gainor called him every day for the funds. Look at the parks. Just look around you and not look at the
color of her skin. Cuz some of you some of you can only see the color of her skin, not the job that she's doing. And I will tell you, you need to look in your own
closet and clean out the hatred that you have in it because that's what's there. Clean out the hatred. Look at the good in people. None of us are perfect, but some of you
are worse than anybody I've ever seen. Thank you. All right. And with our public commentary, um, after we have our last gentleman in this line, we're going to go rowby row.
That way we can uh see who all wants to make comments. We do have a a list, but many of you have come in since then. So, we're going to just after we get our line here, go rowby row uh down each side. I guess if I can have an employee to assist me with that, so I know what
rows we're on actually um with that as well. But we'll start with our line here. Kim Godwin, Lyn Haven resident. We all woke up today in one of the best cities in this country. And the fact that we are all here in this room is an embarrassment to every resident of this
great city. You should be ashamed. Our neighborhoods are clean and safe. We have new sidewalks. Our streets are well-maintained. There are beautiful parks for people of all ages. Public spaces to see the sunrise and sunset. Police and firefighters come when you
call them. We're in a new city hall. The city has tripled the amount of money it had seven years ago, and our debt has been cut in half. This has all happened on Vicky Gainor's watch as city manager and with Jesse Nelson as the mayor. So, what is the difference?
What is the difference between them and you? Would it be the content of their character or the color of their skin? After Monday's ridiculous meeting where you put her on leave based off of one man's flip-flopping accusations, a
meeting meant to be mean and hurtful and smear Vickiy's name. She went back to her office to collect herself. I just happened to walk into city hall at that time and saw one of you, Mr. Warick, angrily walking back and forth, stomping
across the hallway looking like you were going to fight somebody. your 6'3 self stomping to the office of a 5-ft tall woman who was sitting there trying to collect herself, demanding that she leave the building as if she were a
convicted felon or a dog you were trying to put out of your house. I wish her husband had been in her office. Actually, probably best that he was not. But can you imagine a man bullying a woman in your family like that? And then
then it's my understanding that one of you called to investigate this matter and has refused to even talk to Miss Gainor. Question: How do you investigate when talking to only one side? Answer: You don't. Your hate allows you to believe you are judge, jury, and
executioner. And I appeal to those of you though who have a heart and a sense of humanity today. You know, Vicky Gainner is a woman of integrity who applies the rules of this city to everyone. She is honest and fair and the same bidding process
that we are here talking about applies to everyone. She listens to consultants, gains consensus, consults with this commission and makes good decisions for all residents of this city. The only people who are upset are the people who believe the rules do not apply to them.
People motivated by greed, hate, or dare I say, racism and revenge. Your children, your grandchildren, Almighty God, and the great people of this city are watching you. Will you stand for what is right? Vicky Gainor deserves to
finish her contract as city manager of Linhaven and walk out of this building with her head held high. We know that and you know that. Do the right thing today. [Applause]
Zweiler, you know, I thought long and hard about what would be said, how we should all think about this. We all have about a week to think about this. And it's it's not easy when you come across these types of decisions.
They're hard. There are many good things that a person can do and a few bad things can sour the entire apple bunch. I was talking with someone that I've known for about 15 years for
well about something very important to me. Um, and one of the statements I made to him was that I would rather be judged by those I manage than those who manage me. Because if they give me a good report,
that means that I was a leader. But if they don't, that means I was insufficient in providing them with the resources necessary to be successful at my job. I've talked to a lot of people in this community, a lot of people in this city that work for this city.
Many of them work in fear. Fear of making the wrong decision. Fear of being yelled at if they question things. Fear of even enforcing ordinances that they know to be just, but maybe just not just enough.
They are afraid to drive past city hall because of an inspection that they did. They're afraid to get a traffic ticket to speak up. We've talked to a bunch of people during the recall campaign that were afraid to sign simply because their name was going to be attached to a piece
of paper and they might be persecuted for it. Regardless of who it was, at the end of the day, that person who leads the city must be a moral example to everything and everyone. This is the guidance that I found.
Where there is no guidance, a people falls. But in an abundance of counselors, there is safety. Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will
be given to him. But the wisdom from above first of all is pure, then peaceloving, gentle, accommodating, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. I want you all to look at the employees of this
city and ask yourselves if they feel safe. Ask them if they feel that they have the ability to do their jobs. And if they don't, you must act. You cannot allow them to be intimidated. You cannot allow things to occur in this city.
Okay? You all have a responsibility to those employees. And that is what I think this needs to be about. [Applause] I'm Pastor Brad Friday. Um, I technically live in Callaway, but my
ministry is here in Lind Haven. Um, before I say anything, I'm going to reply to what some of the stuff that the man that just came before me said. One thing about counsel, wise counsel, the council that you're talking about is the council that comes from God. And that's a righteous counsel that is not subject
to public opinion. So, so um one thing that you that is very important not to do is use scripture to justify um a an earthly wisdom. The wisdom that comes from God has nothing to do with the wisdom of man. So that
must be clear. Um the thing I want to say I have a question. Um the question I want to ask everyone and this is a rhetorical question. Is justice blind? Do you believe that justice is blind?
Well, if you believe that, you must utilize justice as the means of determining right or wrong. Not public opinion, not a letter that came in the mail, not an email, not anything that comes outside of justice.
And one thing that I've seen since I've been in Lin Haven, I've seen this man attack, not based on his character, not based on his ability, not based on the things that he's done as well as Vicky Gainor, but based on things that have
nothing to do with the the office that they're fitting. And one thing that we know in the Air Force and your your prior Air Force, integrity first. And that's very important. Now, that's something that you cannot discard.
How many people in here know Vicky Gainer personally? Okay. There's a lot of people that don't know her personally. So, how can you um there's a personal attacks that been employed on her and against her. Now
since you don't know her personally, what other judgment other than Jesus in the scripture said um in John 14:11, he said, "If you don't if you don't believe me because of who I am, believe me because of my works."
And I don't believe I've seen this man and the work that he's doing. I've seen him present with the works that he's done. I've seen her present with the works that they've done. I don't care how you think about them, what opinion you have about them. Look at their works.
And if you can't get past their works, there's not something wrong with them, there's something wrong with you. So, it's very important. I I would hope that and I love I I came to Linhaven from Miami and I love it here, but I've seen some things that are unappealing
here with regards to how people deal with people. And I would implore you commission and I would implore you public to be just. Don't listen to all of the regular
marone that's coming around about whatever, but be just. Antonio Bellamy, 604 Hummingbird Street, Linhaven, Florida. I bought my first property here in Linhaven back in 1999.
Young wife, young son, looking to raise a family, not knowing this was going to be a great place to raise a family. So, I've raised four kids here in this community. I was at the parks when there were houses where no houses was around
the parks. Now, there's beautiful communities and beautiful homes around the parks. Pat, we come to your restaurant after basketball games and and and and and eat and celebrate. You've always showed me love and respect
coming into your establishment. That that and and and let the works look at the numbers numbers don't lie. There's more money in the budget now than there was before Hurricane Michael. You got the parks
that are beautiful. People are working. Now I'm raising grandkids in the same community, coming to Patch Restaurant, getting respect. The numbers don't lie. So what is it? What is it that cause somebody to want
to fire somebody when the numbers don't lie? Nobody's stealing money. What is it? I don't understand it. I I I don't understand how you you you can say stuff like that when the numbers don't lie. Nobody's taking money. Saving my
taxpayers dollars for my my grandkids and my great grandkid. Saving my money. Using it wisely. Numbers don't lie. But you want to get rid of somebody who's been passed the torch,
have done a great job with the torch that has been passed, and you want to get rid of somebody like that. The numbers don't lie. Jamie, all I ask is just to allow the mayor and
the city manager to work out their term. I can understand if the budget was a negative 4 million. Numbers don't lie. But that's not the case. Everybody that voted against the fire, the mayor, or
the city manager need to be on investigation. Every one of y'all need to be under investigation cuz the numbers don't lie. If if if it was a negative four million in the bank, I'll say they ain't doing a good job cuz the numbers don't lie.
But it's more money in the bank right now than before Hurricane Michael. The numbers don't lie. Pat, you're a businessman. You know that's not right. The numbers don't lie. Thank you so much for allowing me to live in Linhaven and raise my kids, my
grandkids and great grandkids. Thank you [Applause] Bostic 159 North Kimber. Let's go ahead
and uh as they say at most business meeting, let's do some housekeeping. Number one, we are actively as I stand before you right now initiating a recall for you Judy Tender and you Jamie Ward.
Call to order. [Applause] Call to order. [Applause] Next up, Reverend Pridey,
Reverend Dr. Wayne and my young brother right here, the youngest of the team, Reverend Rivers and you, Reverend Nelson. Well, what my man just said here a few minutes ago, uh, about he read out of the Bible. Now, one of y'all please
correct me if I'm wrong. The Bible says that a liar shall not tear in his sight. All I'm saying, they used the Bible to justify slavery and it was still wrong. So getting up here reading a passage from the Bible has no more weight than
when Jesus went in the temple and turned over the tables with the money changers cuz he read a scripture to support the money changers. We ain't going back. [Applause] Next up, Mr. Pno, the young man before me, Mr.
Bellamy just talked about the numbers don't lie. Mr. Peoples, the numbers don't lie. Mayor Nelson, the numbers don't lie. Mr. War, Miss Tender, I know I realize y'all read out of alternative books, but the numbers don't lie.
And so, I implore you today to make the right decision. You know what the right decision is. Now, the question becomes, has James Finch got to you? [Applause] That's what your vote would tell us
today. You look at who start who got this started, James Finch. Well, it all got started because Mr. Ward decided to violate a couple Florida statutes, which I will be investigating myself now.
It ain't over. Ice Cube said in no Vaseline, it ain't over. Ain't over. It ain't over. Just know we ain't going away. We tired of the craziness. We're tired of you sitting there saying what you want to
and doing as you please. We are here today for a purpose. Either get on board that train or get run over. Thank you. [Applause]
Michelle Basher's 811 Louisiana Avenue. Uh, my comments today are directed at the four commissioners who voted in favor of putting the city manager on leave, not the mayor. Monday morning, this commissioner had the audacity to place Vicky Gainor on
administrative leave. On what grounds? Selfserving deposition of a person making dubious allegations. a witness named as a defendant in a civil lawsuit in which the city is also a defendant.
A deposition, the first deposition in a civil lawsuit before a judgment was made on a pending dismissal of that lawsuit. A deposition that should have remained private. A deposition that resulted in that
defendant in that lawsuit being dismissed as a defendant. Unfortunately, this civil deposition was prematurely released to the commission on Friday. Then a commissioner forward the
deposition directly to a local social media administrator who then posted it on his Facebook page. It was shared with prejudice and not for transparency. [Applause]
But let me get this straight. In my mind, on Monday morning, you had the one transcript, a transcript that had not yet been vetted for its truthfulness, the negative comments from the public and one implication that a criminal
investigation had been called for. So in the hypothetical scale of justice, that is the only weight you had on one side of the scale. On this side of this hypothetical scale, you had two attorneys advising you not
to take any action on this deposition at this time. strongly advise you not to take to take no action because to do so could put the city in a precarious situation in the pending lawsuit. Also on this side, you should have
placed the excellent body of work Vicky Gainor has performed since Hurricane Michael, but alas, you didn't. I also want to remind you of one other thing that should have been placed on that side of the scale.
At the strategic planning meeting, the city attorney reminded you as commissioners, your duties were legislative, not judicial. [Applause]
That meeting was on July 9th, 2005, two days Oh, I lost my Thank you. 30 seconds. Oh, no. That's That's it. Yeah. Thank you.
Hi, I'm Mitch Oakley, 1208 Massachusetts Avenue here in Linhaven. I want to say a couple, not so much about the fire. The firing is going to be up to y'all and yours's intake from the city. I want to look at my mayor. When adults rise in anger and
focus and point, that's the time for you to intercede. We just opened up some bad wounds again. Really stirred them up. So, we got enough. So, in the past when I've done that, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's I know you were called cutting off speech, right? In the past when I've done that,
I've been told that was not the thing to do. Meeting I've ever been in. I would encourage the city. There's some eloquent speakers going here. Some men of God. My dad was a pastor. I respect that. But we can't stand here and say, "I hate you. I hate you. I hate you."
And he you can't do that. I would, for instance, these two were addressed. I happen to like chicken salad and she makes a killer chicken thigh. You know, it it's just good. But there are all
good people here and I know you've been accused of squashing conversation. Okay. I just want to make everybody just take a little bit of breath. Take one in the mouth and out the nose and out the mouth. Okay? And try not to make these divisions any worse than they are
because this is where people get harmed. There's a lot of money at risk here. There's jail time for some folks flying around. You know, it's passionate. It's passionate. So, I would encourage you. I'm a Cherokee Indian. If you want to have a talk later on the side about getting screwed, I can talk to you
later. But it's a I I bless the city. That's what I want to say. Bless all the commissioners. Make a good decision. Make it and go with it. If it's for the best of the of the city, you do it. Okay. You and I
haven't always seen eye to eye. I still expect you to drive, don't I? Yes, I do. As long as you're sitting in that seat. Please community, let's please. Please community, let's come together. Try to be a little [Applause]
Gay Spakes, 1019 Mississippi Avenue, Lyn Haven. I have been a resident of Lyn Haven all my life. I am a native of Lin Haven and Commissioner Nelson, I
excuse me, Mayor Mayor Nest, I want to just say one word. The lady that spoke said everything I wanted to say, so I won't waste your time repeating that. But I do have a question for the other commissioners that are sitting on board
today. And as we go through this agenda, my question is to you, is Commissioner Warick the only one that is going to make a motion? Because I've sat here and he's made two motions and none of you have said a word. So, are
the rest of you interested in what's going on and are just going to allow him to make all the motions that are going to be made today? I would like to see some of you, if you're so passionate about this, to stand up and say a word and not let him have all the words to
say. Thank you. Good afternoon. I'm Julie Finch Huggin, 700 Mississippi Avenue. I am here today and not as a citizen but as a daughter of someone who gave his heart and his wallet to this city. My father built public restrooms at the
park with his own money funding community fireworks. He's because he believed in Linhaven. He was later indicted in a federal case tied to the city corruption and he was found not guilty. Despite that, he's still been punished today. The city manager openly
stated to the city engineer that she changed a bid, one my father fairly won simply because she didn't like him or because of his past legal battle. That is not only unethical, it's bid rigging. The mayor,
excuse me, this is my time. The mayor who filed for personal bankruptcy before taking office transferred leftover campaign funds into his church. I don't say this. That is a lie. Do not say that. That is a lie. I Hey, this is my time. Stop. That's a lie.
This is my time. No, you cannot stand up and lie. That's a lie. Okay. I don't say this to be personal. I say this because we're holding residents. Can you do point of order, whatever, please? If you would stop lying, we can. So, that is a lie.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh, okay. If you did, hey, if you didn't, if you did not do that, then I will I will say I apologize. Everybody gets three minutes later. If you did not do that, I will say I apologize. Sir, I make a motion to pass the gavl to the mayor prom.
You cannot run a meeting. Hold on. Don't yell at me, sir. I make a mayor I make a motion to move the gavvel to the mayor prom. Sir, calm down. So, so this is what we're this is the
this is the the anger and this is sorry it's my time that we're referring to. It's my time. I please I've just got a little bit left. I'll call to order. But to your question earlier that has been investigated. Okay. If you're not I'll apologize to you. The state attorney has already exonerated me that there's no evidence.
Then I will I'm sorry if I if I said the wrong thing and I'm Hey. Okay. If you're a church, if you got your church here or whatever, if I say I'm sorry to you and I'm looking at you in the eyes, then they should then the motion. Is there a second? If not, he needs Call to order, sir. Have a seat.
Okay. Anyway, okay. We cannot play politics with people's reputations or livelihoods. We cannot ignore sunshine law violations, backroom deals, or retaliation against residents who serve this city long
before these seats were filled. I'm asking for transparency. I'm asking for fairness and I'm asking for accountability because if not now, when? Okay. And then also I would like um pursuant to article 1
section 24 of the Florida Constitution chapter 119 of Florida statutes is a public records law. I am formally requesting access to the copies of the following public records. One, all communications, email, text messages, internal memos, and meeting notes between the city manager, city engineer,
and any member of the commission regarding any decision to change or cancel a city contract or bid awarded to James Fence, particularly between the dates from January 2021 to present. I want all bids, scoring documentation,
any written or verbal statements, and all campaign finance records, meeting minutes, recordings, or notes. This has already been requested in writing. So, I just want you to know when you have an extra when you cost the city $300,000 as
a city manager, you got a problem. That's wrong. I I had a picture right here of all the potholes. And I think we could have probably filled them with that money. And so, I just implore you to do the right thing and this racist stuff. I've never been racist in my
life. My de Call to order. I have Okay. It doesn't matter what you think, sir. I mean, Mr. Mayor, I It doesn't It doesn't bother me at all. All I know is right and wrong. Black or white does not matter. Race does not
matter in this building. And they should be quiet when everybody talks. Even Even refer keep your comments to me for everybody. I'm talking about the ones for you or against you. I understand. That's what I'm saying. They need to be quiet so we can hear. That's all I'm saying. Not them and not them. I'm
saying everybody. Do you understand that? Do you understand that? Okay, that's all I got to say. I'm just saying if now when that's your time. Praise God. Praise God.
If everyone again uh if everyone would please follow the quorum or we will have to stop public commentary and call our vote. Okay. So we're trying to give everyone an opportunity to express yourself. I know we are emotionally charged. Many of us
are aggravated, upset on either side. I totally understand. Um but let's maintain let's follow our decorum or we will have to cut public commentary and go to the vote and mine won't be short. It will be very short. I've moved to Lyn Haven uh here
in um April 2018 just before Hurricane Michael. Been here for seven years. We all stand and say I pledge allegiance to the flag. And that last verse, justice for all.
Remember that justice for all. That's all people. And she was talking about race. Do you know the definition of race when you saying I'm not a racist? Look at that definition. See what the race what race mean. But the flag we stand
everybody stand here. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the last phrase justice for all. So remember that justice for all. Okay.
[Applause] Jerry Parker, right place. 98% of you that are sitting here right now have never seen the corruption that has
gone on in the FBI. the federal investigation has not seen what has gone on in this city. I've lived here since 2002. I never went to a commission meeting
prior to the hurricane. After the hurricane, I had problems with with a construction company. I started coming and petitioning my government for a reason. Actually got EPCI fired because they weren't doing their job from
Linhaven. And what's going on here, the heckling, the the bullying, the name calling is absurd. I must remind you of the rules that this
mayor has put before us. The clapping, the heckling, the name calling, the racist comments. How many times have I been called a racist? A bunch. a bunch.
I have come up to this podium. I have a right to petition my government. I have that right. Every single person in this room has that right. But how many of you have come to a commission meeting and spoke up? How many of you sitting behind
me have come into this commission meeting and spoken up? 98% of you have not. But you're sitting here trying to berate the rest of the citizens. These are my
tax dollars. These are your tax dollars that have been spent. Look at the amount of money that was stolen from Lyn Haven. Look at the amount of money. Do you not know? No, you don't know. You know the reason why you don't know.
You know the reason why you don't know. Excuse me, but y'all need to be quiet back there. Please direct your comments to the chair. Well, why don't you call point of order, mayor? I have called point of what I have called. No, you're allowing them to heckle.
You're allowing them to You're directing your comments to the public. They're going to respond. So, stop. They should not be responding. They should be or they should be going according to your rules and they're not. You're allowing them to do that.
This is the most absurd commission meeting I have ever seen in my entire life. Ever. Ever. Ever. And what's going on and the comments that are being made are despicable. Absolutely despicable.
These people don't know me. These people don't know me. And I don't care about knowing them either. But you don't know. You see what I'm saying? Mayor, you see what I'm saying? Thank you. Let's bring down
Let's bring down the noise. Uh Jaci, Linhaven resident. I am a 17-year-old citizen of Lyn. Treated is disgusting. Every day I see dozens of non-blacks on Facebook saying things like, "Oh, here comes the race card again." So, let's remove race for a
second. Just look at the facts. According to suicide or organization of Bay County, Bay County suicide rate was 24.6% in 2024, which is significantly higher than the statewide average of 14.1%. I bring this up to I bring this number
up to highlight something deeper. Bay County is not filled with love. It's filled with hate, division, and judgment. When I scroll through Facebook and land on pages of people like Jodie Moore or Bernie Thompson, all I see is bullying and harassment. When I look at the pages of Mayor Nelson or Miss Gainor, I see encouragement, compassion,
and professionalism. Let's go back to 2021. Mayor Nelson first ran for office. He said that he earned a doctor in leadership. Now, four years later, people like Bernie Thompson, Ellen Fields, and others are still using that to bully and mock him. I just graduated high school, and even I can see what this really is. People attacking what
they don't understand. Or worse, is it jealousy? Mayor Nelson earned his degree from Stellenbos University, which according to usnews.com ranks among the top 350 universities in the world. So why are grown adults trying to discredit something they probably wish they had? I only watched the city commission
meetings online. One of the board's members can scream and yell like a toddler, but the second Mayor Nelson responds, suddenly he's the aggressor. If it's not bullying, then I don't know what it is. I've also noticed something else. people referring to Mayor Nelson and Miss Gainor and I quote the two black
Democrats. First off, Mayor Nelson is nonpartisan. Second, yes, Miss Gainer is a Democrat and so was the other member on this board until 2022 where she stated in a Facebook post where she switched from Democrat to Republican. So, where's the outrage to remove this member for having
affiliation with the Democrats? It's confusing how this city shouts one nation under God while tearing fellow Christians down with hate, lies, and ignorance. Seriously, what version of the Bible are y'all reading? And if you felt attack hearing this, that means it was probably meant for you. Thank you.
[Applause] I would like to try to offer some context. I believe we are all here at high noon
to bear witness to privilege attempting to slay non-privileged. Let me say again, I believe we are all here at high noon to bear witness to privileged
attempting to slay nonprivileged. Good afternoon. I'm David Kromardi, 1315 Wisconsin Avenue. 75 years ago,
I was born in Lyn Haven with zero privilege. My neighborhood had no privilege. And the schools I attended had no privilege.
I wasn't even given privilege to properly be recognized after my high school teammates and I brought home to Bay County his first state baseball championship win and that
was Rosenwall High School 1966. Nevertheless, I graduated that memorable night in May 1967. Before the sun could come up that very
next morning, I was out of here. I was sick of not knowing what it was like to have privilege. So I left
to find myself some quote unquote privilege. I landed in the United States Air Force in 1968. In 1972, I volunteered
to serve in Vietnam so I could earn myself some quote unquote privilege. It wasn't until 40 years later that I began to feel privileged.
At the local W house where I proudly wore my Vietnam veterans cap, I was given 10% military discounts on my meals.
That felt good. And every once in a while, a young white boy or girl will say, "Hey, mister, thank you for your service."
Thank you. That is your time. That's the three minutes. Yes, sir. That's it. Yes, sir. [Applause] My name is Sarah Marlor, 7-Eleven New
York Avenue. Um, I have lived in Linhaven all 36 years of my life and I'm an incredibly proud Linhaven resident. Um, recently my husband ran for seat 4 and um against Miss Tinder. And although
he did not win the election, I can say at the end of the day, he ran an incredibly clean and honest campaign. And there is a group on social media that pushes an agenda that called my husband names,
that called him a good old boy, that called him a millionaire that we don't want. And they've never had a conversation with my husband. They looked at his donor list and made decisions based off of that. One of
which they hated because he spoke. And now that this man has been deposed and has spoken against Miss Vicki, he's their hero. Sam, I grew up with you and went to high school with you and also college.
Mayor Nelson, I look at you like a family member. Commissioner Tinder, Commissioner Warick, I don't agree with y'all, but I'm going to respect the position you're in because you were voted into it. At the end of the day,
this has got to stop. I love this city and I want to see my little boy that is two years old be raised in the same city that I was raised in. And we are in the best
position that we have been in in years. After the hurricane, our city was in shambles. My husband and I were considering moving because it was so bad here. So much money was stolen.
And now the city is in the best financial position it's ever been in. So, I want to ask you all to make a very educated decision because the lady that also just got up here and was upset that
people were commenting on her that didn't know her and how dare they speak about her, she does the same thing to them, but it's censored. [Applause] So, think about think about the way
that the lies are being spread. And it's okay for one side to do it, but when the other side speaks up, it's not okay. I love this city. I love where I live, and I want what's best for it. Make the
best decision, please. [Applause] I'll just say it once again. And if there are any lies being told, if anybody wants to point those out to me or any example of me being a racist,
I'll be outside and you can address me outside. Okay? I'll be out in the hallway and you're more than welcome to come and give me proof, please. You know, just a comment, you know, almost I was thinking about this this morning. Almost
as bad as being a victim of racism, almost as bad as being accused of racism with no proof when you're not. Okay? I try to show people the truth. They can look or they don't have to look. And another comment, um, mayor, the way
you're running this meeting today is another reason why you should be recalled. This is just another clip that belongs on the montage. Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Roya Wilson. I presside my residence is 105 East 17th
Street. Um I am probably My family moved to Lyn Haven in 1955. I was 2 years old. Been there ever since. I've seen quite a bit of controversy over those
years, but it never came to these heights. I'm not going to comment on who's right, who's wrong, but what I want the commissioner to do is to do as I done. I done a little searching and I found on the bake county
um publications of all their doingings and it some of it read this way. It is important to note that commissions have the right to reject any and all
proposals for various reasons including nonresponsiveness, failure to conform to requirements or if it's deemed to be the best interest of the municipality. That is, I think, what y'all should
consider. Why the contract or why this happened? Why I remember back first of the year I was here standing and um I remember one of you commissioners, I'm not going
to name it. Uh again, Miss Gain was on trial. That's how I see it. He said it was not Miss Gain's decision. It was a recommendation from the commission
to fire or not to fire the police chief. It was a recommendation from the commission. I do not believe Miss Gain is the author of any bids or any
contracts literature. She can't do that by herself. Of course, she signed them. Is the author of any bids or any contracts literature. She can't do that by herself. Of course, she signs it and she has to take credit
for it. She don't write it. I might be wrong. Correct me if I'm not correct. Therefore, what she done, if it was right or wrong, that's not the issue here. It was not her total
decision. Am I right or am I wrong? If it's she orchestrated this, if she created this, if she wrote that, she need to take blame. But if she was doing what was a suggestion or as we say in
organizational cuz there any complaints with what we want to do there not being any decision has to be made. I advise this commission to research the decisions of other commissions in
this city who have rejected bid for a cause. Thank you. [Applause] The thing I want to address isn't so much the job.
Um, after the hurricane hit back in 2018, some of you may or may not remember, I ran for seat one because I wanted to help rebuild the city and I won. And I sat there and I worked with Miss Vicky Gainor for days and nights and months and years repairing and
rebuilding this city. I didn't get to enjoy any of it, by the way. I didn't get to sit in here even though I helped rebuild it. And one thing I can to come up here and stand up for her for is she is a woman of integrity.
She's a she's a woman of honor. And she's not getting any respect whatsoever for the hard work the 10, 12, 14hour days she put in right after Michael. All because we want to jump the
gun for a legal process. Let the legal process play out and do its thing. Call to order. We're going after a woman that anyone that knows her knows she's a good woman.
I mean, I live my life, and I know many of you do. I know people on the back behind me live their lives to the best of their ability. And we all make mistakes sometimes, but it doesn't mean that everybody on Facebook should get out and call you a name. It ain't right.
We're we're a civil decent people here. And I I tell you one thing, ride down 77 and compare it to before, Michael. And what's better? Look at the finances. Okay? She's She's not a criminal, so lay off of her,
please. Thank you. [Applause] My name's Sort. I have been coming to the Linhaven Commission meetings for a while now and I love this city. I have relatives that
go back a long time ago, probably a hundred years ago, and we love the city. I have a son who lives in Lyn Haven. What I'm up here about to say is this.
because there's a disagreement on how people feel. There should not be the hatred being spewed that is. And I'm telling you, I have a grandson who is half black
and I love him with he is my heart and we are teaching him his heritage of black and his heritage of white because he deserves to know about both of them.
Let me tell you another thing that people aren't going to like. I was raped by a black man. I could have I could have become a racist because of that,
but I didn't because it was not all the black people's fault. Okay. But the racism that I've seen today coming from black people has really
broke my heart. I was on Sally Jesse Raphael. Do any of you remember that show where the Clu Klux Clan in Atlanta got up there and was talking about black people and this that and the other. And
I stood up and went forward and I said, "Let me tell you what my grandmother taught me." She said, 'When you stand before God, he's going to look at you and say, you didn't like Chinese and turn himself into a Chinese. You didn't like white
and turns himself into a white. You didn't like black and he turns himself into black. Because God is all of us. All of us. And this should not be a black and white or a racist deal here.
It should be about right from wrong and what was done and what was not. And I told those racist Ku Klux Clan that they would be burning in hell for
how they feel. So, let's stop the racist stuff and just go to the facts and see what was done. Thank you. [Applause] Hello, name is Henry Fac. I live in
Panama City now. I lived in Lhaven for 10 years. I was here during the storm. I was at work at the prison, paid out to the prison through the storm, came home. City was tore up when
I came back through here. things. Since I moved out of here, out of L Haven, this place has grown. I know one of the reasons is because of Vicky Gainor. People get up here and stand and talk about racism. It
shouldn't be this way. It shouldn't be that way. But guess what? It is. It's that way. Y'all can sit around here and talk about, "Oh, I'm not racist. I'm not this. I got black friends. I got white
friends or whatever. It's not about that. It's about treating people right. That's right. And the young ladies that's made the comment, I'll be outside. Where I come from, I take that as a threat. Don't come at me like that.
That's what it is. It's a threat. I worked in the prison system long enough for 30 years to know that's a threat. And when they want to get up here and talk about one man that they're talking about that brought along a lawsuit,
one man, one man, I could tell you about that man. I know that man since he worked at the John Deere place where the mall is. So don't come in here, his family, his friends, and tell me nothing about how straight this man is. I've
been here. When I was a boy at 10 years old, I was working with my daddy. We was doing Puckwood. So all this land in Panama City, we helped clear it off. I've been toe-to-toe with this man. So anybody that want to back him up, back him up because I guarantee you if he was
a regular man like this and had didn't have no money, guess what? You wouldn't even be in here right now. That's right. And the thing about it, like the lady said, she's been here so many of these council meetings and all.
That's right. You know what? This is the time to stand up when you feel like somebody's doing being done wrong. I worked at a prison where I was the only I'm going to go there. The only black man that was working there at that time. Guess what? I had to stand up for
myself. I didn't have people coming in. So, that let you know how much it has grown and how much people have come together. This is what we need for people to come together in times like this. Thank you for your time.
[Applause] Johnny Basher is 81 Louisiana Avenue. As city manager, Vicky Gainor in all her actions has always had Linhaven and our citizens best interest in her heart and
in her mind. I cannot say the same for commissioners Warick or Tinder who have placed their personal grudges ahead of Linhaven and its citizens best interest. This proceeding is a prime example. This action has placed the city in a greater position of liability, not less. They've
ignored the legal device of two law legal advice of two law firms. Law firms that are here specifically to guide the commission in how to best avoid these liabilities. Further, by ignoring the legal counsel to our insurer, they have raised the real possibility that the insurer may drop the coverage since the
commission shown the negligence and not following the company's guidelines. Now, as we heard last time, it's unusual for depositions to occur this early in a legal proceding, one that currently has a motion to dismiss in place. So, ask yourself why
this occurred. It could very well be that the plaintiff realizes the motion to to dismiss may be successful and if so they would miss the opportunity to weaponize this to achieve their co core goal which is the removal of Vicky Gainor from her position. One of their
stated reasons one of his stated reasons from his letter to the citizens is that she's a Democrat. Our city charter specifically states that party affiliation is not to be used in consideration for the city manager. Miss Gainner has done an excellent job for the city bringing us back from Hurricane
Michael, paying off over half the debt left to us from Marggo Anderson days as mayor and and build and building the city's operating funds from 6 million to 19 million. So why are we here? This is an excerpt from a contract negotiated by Michael White and signed by Marggo
Anderson. This agreement is made this 9th day of August 2017 buyed between the city of Glen Haven, Florida here and after called owner and Phoenix construction services incorporated and business as a corporation and having a business contract and having a business address of 1805 Tennessee Avenue
Linhaven, Florida here in call contractor. I'll skip a little bit more of that, but with the construction of environmental infrastructure projects within the owner's jurisdiction to include all infrastructure improvements funded in whole or in part by the half cent infrastructure sir tax and other
projects the city desires. Each project is to be identified by task order. The term of this agreement shall extend throughout the duration of the infrastructure sax as it may be extended by the voters. So take keep that in mind. It was promised to give Mr. Finch or Phoenix construction all the
infrastructure tax money for inf forever. Miss Gainor took the cash cow put it back in the barn while it was still being milked. That's why we're here. In closing, I will say that Miss Gainor has my full confidence and support. It's my hope that she's allowed
to continue to work diligently for the citizens of Linhaven. Thank you. My name is Selena Martin. I've been in L Haven since I was 11 years old. So, I was here 51 years. And I must say that
Lin Haven is uh has grown up a lot. And I feel that uh Vicky Gain has been discriminated against because she has been doing a good job. And it just is sad that we got to be here today on her
behalf because she has been doing a really good job and I hope she get to stay in the office. Thank you. Thank you. Assistant city manager if you're called to vote. [Applause] Hold on. I'd like to for us to have
discussion if that's cool. I'd rather discuss. I mean, there's a big deal. I don't want to go straight to the vote. Okay. I just want I want to hear I mean we know I just want to hear from everybody. I want to hear what all of you have to say. I mean this is a big
deal you know. So we can start with the one that made the motion and the one that second. I mean there's a lot I want to say. Obviously there's things I can't talk about. Um I did come to city hall. I was upset because we made a motion to put
her on administrative leave and she was still here. I didn't go into her office. I went by her office, but I didn't go in her office. I didn't talk to her or anything. That's when I came and found you. We sat down, had a discussion, and it was determined that she was going to be out by 2:00. That's not how it
normally works. Um, so I just wanted to bring that up cuz I know that was talked about. Can I clarify a fact though? Go ahead. Is that the reason you didn't talk to her is because I was in her office praying with her when you stomped in. So if I was not
in the office, you would have talked to her. That's fine. Whenever I That's fine. But normally, if you look at how any organization works, when they put someone on administrative leave, you're not there very long and you have to leave. And and that's the reason that's set up that way is to have
safeguards in place. That's why that did not happen that way. We didn't get why you put on I don't mind. I want to interrupt you too because this goes on a line and I was out in the hall so I didn't know when the line ended so I had to run in. First of all, I have a heart condition
and that's why I'm not usually at these meetings. But I have watched from my home. I have seen what you're doing. The lawyer on that conversation
said, "Leave it alone. He told you all to leave it alone, but one of you would not stop. And one of you egged him on
me. As you have egged on a lot of people that come up here week after week, you know who you are. You're going to be outside.
Yeah. with your little newspaper. That's right, Mr. Warick. You came into something you knew nothing about. Vicky Gainor worked tirelessly on this city when it was falling apart.
And that mayor who also wants to recall you, Mr. Nelson has it up on Facebook on the bacon. Yes, it's there. That's what they want.
They've been pushing it. Now, one time Ryan Scray, let me tell you, I said something to you on Facebook and you came back to me Messenger, but I also got another message from some gap
Parker who really basically was saying just how pitiful a human being you were. I never responded to her because I didn't want to open myself up to more messages because I know how that works. If I accept that message, I accept that
person. and I don't accept that person. And I that proved to be a good decision for me week after week after week when I see this mess. We didn't have a tree in this town. I had 38 taken down in my yard. They were
all out. Not cuz I cut them, because the storm did it. My home was destroyed. I was out of this city for two years. Two years. Two years. I'd drive from Niceville to here to get into that damn office over there. That little teeny
office you got people in. And they didn't know what they were doing. Under who? I wonder who that mayor was. And then that mess started and who got stuck with it all? White left. The mayor
left. And Finch, I'm sorry, he's been in trouble with the EPA. You should look him up. He's been in trouble with a lot of people. Just a lot of people. All you got to do is look his name up. Phoenix Construction James Finch. They even put
in there about he doesn't follow rules. That is our time. Thank you. I may be out of time, but I don't give a damn. That is our time. I pay taxes here and I'm going to say it. What you have done to Vicki Gainor
is wrong. To order. [Music] [Applause] Good afternoon.
I'm Sharon Sheffield. You might know me as former mayor, former city commissioner. I am so so so disappointed
in the city now. And I used to tell everybody coming into this county looking for somewhere to live, go to Lin Haven because it's the best place to
live. And I still say that because one monkey don't stop no show. Some of you have been here a long time. And I don't think anybody's been here as long as I have.
I'm 83 years old. [Applause] I've been here. I've done things. And I want to do more things, but I want the right things to be done.
And as I sit here and I sat here and I listen to people having hate hate. There is hate all over this world now. And we shouldn't want to be a part of it.
I lost a son down in the waters here in Linhaven. The city came to my rescue to help me find my son. If that wasn't love, I don't know what is.
You come together because as the mayor states in his message to us, we're better if we're together. If we fight, everything breaks down.
And I'm getting ready to send a message to the city of Panama City, the city of Panama City Beach, Callaway,
any of them that this is the best place in the world. And I'll tell anybody that, you know, I love you. I thank you for taking taking that seat
with Mr. Albritton cuz he's a good man. And I asked him when he said he was stepping down, "No, you're not." He says, "I have to, but you are good. And I won't call you a
man, a good boy. Stick together people and forget the hate. Be that city and that person of one that says I am a good person. Thank you.
I love y'all. I don't like some things you do and say, but I am going to heaven when I die. Thank you. And I want y'all to be there with me, but if you're not there, it's your
fault. Commissioner Ward. I mean, I don't know what else I can say cuz I can't really say much, but we've already we're here. So, no, I mean about I've done my interviews. I've I've
asked probably about 40 50 questions. Um, but I don't want to go into specifics on any of them. So, but and I do understand it. I'm not trying to force you to. I think we we were already past that when we did this on Monday to protect the city from
litigation. We're past that now. So, we we're here to discuss the your motion. I I don't have anything else to say. I mean, I'm I'm not This isn't about color. I know a lot of people brought that up. It had nothing to do with color. Um and I Yeah, that's awesome.
Commissioner Tinder. Yes. I wrote a statement that I would love to read if that's okay. And I want to first say the 17-year-old girl um that looked at me and smiled and said Democrat.
Um I have always been a person that voted for the candidate. I voted for Obama. I voted for and I switched and went to Republican to vote for um Brian Cloudis and uh my friends that are
Republican know that I'm a Democrat at heart and they know that I will switch in a heartbeat um if if so be. And Mayor Sheffield, I have utmost respect for you and I thank you. when I first uh came on
board in 17, I came to visit you. You were so gracious and I know you were speaking from your heart and uh so was I and I've always appreciated you for that. Um a couple of other things
um that might be important, it might not be important to some. Uh at 75 years old, I'm the oldest commissioner on the Linhaven Commission. I was on the commission when city manager Vicky Gainner was hired by Joel Schubert and
uh I believe she was originally hired as a grant writer. Um and that was April 3rd in 2017. Vicki and I met at a meeting that was with uh city manager then Joel Schubert
where I was defending the actions of an HR director. um they ended up firing her because they didn't want to listen to what she had uncovered. But nonetheless, um
she had discovered that the city of Lyn Haven was not paying women uh the same as any their male counterpart. And then I looked over at Vicki and I said, "And we don't pay blacks as much
as we pay whites for the same job." And she looked at me and she I mean I I was shocked. She was shocked as well. And I have to say that uh that little meeting we had um July of that year, Vicki got a
$9,000 raise. And I don't even know today if those things have been upgraded. And if they haven't, it's a shame. I mean, some of the things we heard at the budget meeting, um, and I'm a big proponent of this, I think the
employees, uh, our greatest asset, and they are in any business. Um, we have fire/ EMT, people that are making $16 an hour. if they come to your house and pick you up off the floor and save your life, $16 an
hour, they can be working at McDonald's and make more than that. Anyway, so I I'm a big proponent of the employees um over the year over the years, I should say. Um I've seen Miss Gainor's attitude
towards our city employees. She's become extremely controlling. And I think if you hooked up electricity to every one of them and put him in a room and said, "Is this true? Is she micromanaging? Is she uh telling you what to say? Is she telling you what not to say?" I'll bet
you every one of them. If they lied, they would be electrocuted because I'm being told otherwise than that. Um, I just feel like my decision was based on a couple things and it hasn't anything to do with what you're all
talking about there. Um, my decision was based on her abilities, her behavior, and her choices. And we're all we all have we all base everything we do on our abilities and our choices. So, I will
always fight for the employees number one. And um I think we need to look at that because we're only as good as they are. We've lost a lot of employees and we need to regain them back. Anyway,
that's that's all I wanted to say. Commissioner, can I can I go, sir? All right. This will be our last public commentary. Yes, sir. Okay. All right. I'm Terrence Brunson. 1504 Louisiana Avenue. Um I'm a resident
long time. We we moved here in ' 68. My father was military. I'm military. Um my question to all the commissioners is why are we here? Why are we here? If numbers mean
everything in this whole world, why are we here today? Why are we here today? If we're not talking about theft and you don't have judicial powers, why are we
here? Someone answer me. I mean, you guys are are commissioners. Why are we here? I mean, I I'm I was an NCO for a number of years, and I can't tell you the number of soldiers that
hated me. Didn't like my style of leadership. So I mean leadership has nothing to do with it. If you are hired for a job to manage, you manage. Your job as a manager is to make calls
that a lot of people that that that will not like. Your job as a commissioner is to make proposals that a lot of people that don't like. But if you hire a person to be a manager, let them manage.
And that's all I got to say. Thank you, Commissioner Peoples. So, I got to be real. I'm uh I'm a little torn. So, I'd like to hear from everybody first because I'll like
for example, um I'll just say uh Miss Gainer has done a great job. uh the debt, you know, it when I ran for office, some of the main
things I cared about was uh storm water, debt, uh tax base, and she has done an excellent job at that. myself and her have had a good working relationship.
Um, and I do think she's a good person. But through our investigation, there has some been some things that have come to light. I can't talk about all of it, but some of it has been alarming. But there has been she has done a lot of
great things too and uh I do want to hear from the other commissioners but I do have a creative solution I think is that for respect out of her and other people that
have talked I'm not going to name any names I'm not going to say anything about anyone but I will say like I said in the investigation there has been some alarming stuff. I think a good solution would be we do
have an F FDLE review underway. We do have the litigation. I stand by my vote on Monday. I stand by that. I I stand on the vote. Yes. Um, I do feel like we should have talked to
those people, uh, got more information for ourselves, but based on what I know, I think the the right thing to do would be that while the litigation
and FDLE in uh, review is going on, we should suspend her until it's done without pay. However, if she is found innocent, we reimburse her that money.
That way, that way, if she is found guilty, the taxpayer did not pay her salary. But if she's innocent, she gets reimbursed. I feel like that's the fair way to do it. Um,
like I said, I don't want to presume innocence or guilt on anything legally uh because that's not my place and I'm not going to talk about that deposition to anybody. But, um, there has been some other things that I I do think that my
solution is the right thing to do. Um, I know that there's no way to please everybody. It's it's very very clear. Um, yeah. I mean, guys, this has been hard.
I I'll say this. The thing I will agree with with Commissioner Peebles on, yes, she has done great things for the city. Um I you can look at my evaluations and and I document that on my you know this I very thorough on her evaluations and I
I am very honest with her. Um and if especially my last one you look at my last one I I marked her down in quite a few areas but I do give her I I do think that she has done great things for the city. Um but you have to do what's best
for the city. So I will agree with you on that. All right, Commissioner Berno, I'd like to thank everybody for being here today. And um I uh
I've known Vicki as long as any of us up here and she was interim city manager when when I came on board in 2019. Um and I've worked with her
and I've seen what the city's done over that time and I love Lin Haven. I love the people in this room uh for what you stand for. Sheffield, thank you for everything you've done and and every time you come
and speak, we we we hold you in the highest regard. I just want you to know that. But um um just as Commissioner Peebles feels feels like he does, I I'm I'm torn. Um I didn't I didn't want to
do investig investigative interviews, but we set it up that way. But I learned I learned some things. Uh um and uh I got to talk to some other people. And
I mean, it's it's hard. It's It's hard to be up here right now making a decision um on someone's on someone's future. I I like your idea, but we have a motion. Um I don't know I don't know where we're going to go from there. So,
got it. I think any motion besides a motion to after me sitting in the interviews, I did interviews as well. um after sitting in those interviews and then after being in meetings in 2021 because I was also in meetings in 2021
um in which we discuss bids and such that any motion besides a motion to end the city manager's paid administrative leave and to return to work on 72125
is egregious. That that's my perspective that any motion we make besides that motion, I hear the motion to terminate. I hear the motion to suspend without pay until the FDLE review is completed until
this case is resolved. Part of the issue in resolving this case is that every time we file a file a motion for dismissal, they turn around and make another claim. I believe this is our fourth motion for dismissal. There are at least three that have been filed and we have been put on notice
that they are about to amend their complaint again. So, so it's the it's the lobbying back and forth. This is not the first time we as a commission heard about this. This came to us in August of 2021. If there was an issue or concern, then
we should have addressed it. Vicky Gainor, city manager Vicky Gainor did not decide to rebid the project. We did. All five of us except Commissioner Peeles. Commissioner Audrey was here.
All five of us decided to rebid the project. When we read the notes, it goes back to the minutes. When I went back and looked at the minutes, I don't know if you all reviewed the minutes that we were given. Commissioner Tinder, you left, so I don't know if you got your packet, but in that packet that we were supposed to get from CJ after we had our
interviews. In that packet was the minutes from those meetings where it was confirmed even by staff that every project was or even the lowest bid was a million dollar over budget. So I hear
people saying I heard someone say earlier we cost, you know, Miss Gainor cost the city $300,000. How? Yes, Phoenix Construction was $300,000 less than the next highest bidder, but his $300,000 bid, as I understand it, as
what was told to us, even from my interviews, was still a million dollar over budget. A million dollars over budget. So, it doesn't matter about if you can buy a paver and and if with those
changes, Vicky Gainor did not direct those particular changes. She relied on her staff. She relied on the engineering consultant who made recommendations to change it to 75%.
Who made recommendations that whatever recommendations and changes were made were recommended by them. So she didn't make those recommendations. There's not a cooperation on her part or some collusion to restrict Phoenix construction. If I also understand what
bid rigging is and see the attorney help me if I'm wrong. Bid rigging is to set up a bid in such a way that only one contractor is able to get the bid and not to exclude one particular contractor. Let's sit up and let's be
real. If a man has enough money to fly a plane for recall over the city of Linhaven on the Fourth of July parade, he has enough money to buy a paver. So, there was nothing done to restrict Phoenix Construction from making the
bid. And let's be honest about it. If we really go back and look at the if we really look at the history of this and Sam commissioner peoples was not here and a couple of months later in November Phoenix Construction came back Jake's
Landing there was nothing that if city if Linhaven city manager Vicky Gainor had a vendetta against James Finch she would have been restrictive and she would have tried then to block him from even getting his land development order done.
you weren't here for that. So, it's there in the minutes. It's there in the notes. August, we make a we make a decision to rebid. Phoenix Construction sends us letters. It goes to our attorneys. Our attorney
said we did nothing illegal. Did we do anything illegal by making these changes to the contracting requirements for the bid? Our attorney said we did nothing ille We did nothing illegal. Same question. So, we did nothing illegal. So, we're here. She didn't do anything illegal.
Nothing was done illegal. And if there's a vendetta, I'm going to get you in all areas, not just one. If there's a vendetta, why didn't this why didn't this vendetta continue 3 months later when we came
back with another development or from Jake's Landing? And I remember in those discussions, you said, Commissioner War, you told Ted Schopz, he stood there as we were in those pre-commission meetings that the corruption must stop. No, I didn't say corruption. What? What? You said, "We can't play those games
anymore." I'm paraphrasing, right? Yeah. So, there was a dispute between him and uh the city manager, and I'm like, "Okay, do you have it in writing?" He was like, "No." I said, "Then it never happened." It it never happened. So my point is if there's a vendetta, if there's some
sense of the city manager is trying to intentionally go after James Finch, then why didn't we do that when Jake's Landing came up? Why why didn't we do that when Jay's Landing come up? Why was J Even when we talked about James Finch, let's put it all out. Even when we talked about James
Finch, his relatives came to me asking me how I was going to vote on that project. And I said, I'm not going to tell you how I'm going to vote. Came asking me, hey, can what are y'all going to do? We're going to do what is right by the ordinances. We're going to do what is right by this. If Mr. Finch, if
we have this vendetta against Mr. Finch, he was told to stop contacting us while he was under indictment. And we continue receive emails and letters from him when he was restricted to do so by a judge. Let's be honest about it. The reason we
are here is because in February, we all decided to pay off. Commissioner Tinder wasn't here. We all decided to pay off a four plus million dollar loan that we owned that we owed to not Phoenix Construction, but James Finch
from the ARPA funds. From the ARPA funds funds. Yeah. We're going to pay that loan. 20 $21,000 plus a month went to the James Finch trust fund, not the Phoenix Construction. 21,000 plus a month until
the year 2047. was going to the JF trust fund when we all decided instead of it being a 30-year payment to pay it off in 10 years to reduce our overall length of indebtedness for the city, then there are attacks
against us for that. But the funny part about it, no one came up here and attacked you for that. We all voted on it. I believe we all voted yes to pay off this debt in 10 years, which was 30
years. But no one attacked us for that. No one attacked you all for that. Instead, Miss Gainner and myself were told that we were mismanaging funds because all of us voted to pay off a $4 million plus dollar loan, which saved us over a
million dollars. [Applause] We're here because you all are being supported by this person. You may say that you're not in letter. He says he endorses you. You have not denied the endorsement. He says
he endorses you. He endorses her. So, we are here for a vendetta. We're not here for I'll even say this for the record, okay? He offered to give me money for my campaign and I turned him down. I didn't want his money. He can only give you $1,000. So, you don't need $1,000.
I didn't want it. I didn't want it. That's all he can give you is $1,000. But I want us to be real about why we're here. We're not here because of a deposition. We are here because there is a vendetta from the other side to come and to try
to destroy the integrity of a woman that is upheld with honesty and righteousness. That's why we're here. that that's why we're here. So when you know how do what what is my stance on it
after what I heard on Wednesday after what I said I didn't heard after I had discussion with the attorneys I can't in right mindset or even in right consciousness say that we should even suspend her for me the only motion that matters is there's a motion to end the
city manager's paid administrative leave and to return to work on 72125. That's it. Call to order. Call to order. That that's the only motion that makes sense because every for me a lot of it
is he, shake, he say, she say. But from what I was told, everybody in my interviews, all of them agreed that she was not the one that came up with the adjustments. She was not the one that came up with the differences. And I
know we're trying to it's too late for us to try to hide behind litigation now and say we're not going to talk about what happened in the interviews because we're here, right? And so we're we're here. So that's what I got from my interviews is that all everybody agreed that she was not the one that said do these
particular things. They all agreed that the person in the deposition was the one that said it. Now, it was also said that Vicky Gainor's objective, whatever it is, is always to do what's best in the interest of the city of Linhaven.
Always. So, to me, that's the only motion that makes sense. Uh, assistant city manager, if you call the vote. Is wait, is this a vote? Is this is this a vote? This is the vote for the three different motions. Well, we only have one motion and second
that's on the floor and that's to uh What's the motion and second that's on the floor? Um to terminate. That's the only one that we have as a motion in the second on the floor now is to terminate. I feel like this is important though because I'm not I'm not finished talking about it. And
with the stuff that I've learned, I want to give Miss Vicki the benefit of the doubt, but I can't in good conscience continue just act as if we're as we can just go on as normal. So to me, the only options are terminate or suspend and reimburse
with pay. And I don't want to do the I don't want to fire her. Okay. Well, we're we're trying to take a vote now. Call to order. Well, you're going to have to choose because my vote is either for termination or suspension. Okay. Right now, wait. Right now, the motion on the floor is for termination.
All right. Well, then I'm requesting that we have an agenda item after tentative to this one so that I can vote on that one, too. We have to Let's We have a motion on the floor that we have to vote on right now. Okay. Are you going to adjourn the meeting as soon as it's over? We We have to follow the motion that's
on the floor. We have to follow the motion that's on the floor right now. Oh, let city assistant city manager call the vote. Commissioner Warick. Yes. Commissioner Tinder.
Yes. Commissioner Peoples. Motion on the floor is to terminate city manager Gander. No. Commissioner Pero. No. Mayor Nelson. Call to order.
Mayor Nelson. All right. Now, I want to make a motion. I have not made my vote. Oh, sorry. Mayor Nelson. No. Motion fails. I pass the Gava to make a motion to end the city manager's paid administrative leave and return to
work on 7:2125. [Music] [Applause]
You have to call for a second. All right. Do I Do I have a second? You're all right, sir. That's right. You're all right, brother. We got you. Call for another second.
All right. Is there last chance for a second? All right. Motion dies. So, I guess I move it back to give the gavl back to you. I was a mayor for like 20 seconds. All right. I would like to make a motion
that the city manager is suspended without pay until the FDLE review is done and the litigation is done. However, if she is found innocent on both accounts, she is reimbured in full. That includes her uh allowance that
includes all of her benefits. I would also if you're pushing for that, I would prefer that we do it with administrative leave. If you don't agree with administrative leave, I would also like to add that we reimburse her for whatever attorney expenses that she's
incurring because of this. [Applause] And the and the reason and the reason I and Sam, Commissioner Peles, the reason I say
that is because and that that'll be decided in the court. Sir, I get that. But we're the reason it's going to court because we we're the ones that started it. So here I the reason I'm saying about the reason I would like to make a mo the
reason again if we don't like if you would not like to amend a motion that she would have paid administrative leave. I would like for you to consider amending the motion to cover her attorney fees. Hear me on this. Is because if it was something that was criminal even in the civil aspect with
it being reviewed it should have already been raised to the criminal level. It was the city that in turn said it that it was possibly criminal. Therefore, we are costing her as the city these attorney fees that she's
incurring now, not something that that was filed against her by another jurisdiction or by another attorney judicially. So if we're not I again I would just encourage us to if you want to do the paid I would encourage paid
administrative leave and or amending to cover her attorney's fees in addition to the reimbursement that you're stating. Mayor Mayor um now her attorney's fees I was under
the impression that our insurance would be paying for that. No. Currently in regards to the FDLE investigation. Oh, which was started was which was initiated by the city. Mhm. According to the FD because of the FDL investigation, she now has a criminal
attorney. Okay. She has incurring criminal She has a criminal attorney now because of us in following through on this action in regards to the FDLE review
investigation, which I would assume that if it was something criminal that even in the civil litigation that it would have already been raised to a criminal aspect during their review of all of this if there was something that was criminal that was actually done. And so
since we as the city have taken it to that level, I think it is only right that if we're going to sus uh again, if we're not going to give her paid administrative leave, whether it's paid administrative leave and or not paid administrative leave, I think
we should amend the motion to include covering her attorney fees um if she's brought back to work. I would say I can agree to that if we're only talking about the criminal side of things because our insurance is covering the Great. I'm only referring to the criminal side. All right, that's fine. Okay. So, I want
to be very careful in this motion. Then I would like to motion that the city manager be suspended without pay until the FDLA review is over and the litigation is over. If she is found innocent on both accounts, she will be reimbursed in full.
The city will cover any lawyer fees on the criminal side if she is found innocent. Okay. I also would like to mo within that motion since she is suspended, she is not to have any city devices. She is not to
contact any city staff. If she's innocent, great. I want her to be innocent. But if she's not, we need to protect during that time. I think that's the right thing to do. we have two different investigations. Let those people make that decision
because that's what they're paid to do. So that's my motion. I'll say it again. She is on she is suspended without pay until the FDLE review is done until the litigation is over. If she is found
innocent, she will be reimbursed. If she is found guilty on either account, she will be terminated. If she is found innocent, she will be reimbursed in full to include all of her benefits. If she is found innocent on
the criminal side, she we will the city will be responsible for reimbursing the attorney fees and which will be a lot by the way. Uh I would imagine um but uh and then finally, she is not to contact city
staff during that time. She is not to have a city device. Would you add that the assistant city manager would be acting in her in herstead? I believe that that was by default already the case by our last motion because it died on the floor. Right.
Okay. And you will have an absence of the city manager rather than a termination. Right. But I want it to be I want clarity on who's going to be acting in that. Yeah. I don't do it next. I don't I don't even think there's an action that needs to be taken on that. It doesn't need to be part of your
Yeah. believe that by default uh Jennifer would be there. Okay. During her absence. So So if she's guilty, she doesn't get reimbursed. Attorney fees is what you're saying. If she's guilty, she does not get reimbured. Correct. All right. Is if she's if she's innocent. Want to make sure everyone's clear on
that. All right. There's a motion on the floor. Is there a second? I just want to add one small thing because this is very important. I think her uh health insurance should still continue. Yes. No matter what, it should still
continue. And then if if she's found guilty, then she can pay that back or whatever. I don't know. But I think they should have health insurance. I am good with that. And dental or whatever and all of her insuranceances. All right. So, a motion has been for
that. Is there a second for this? I'll second. All right. There's a motion and second. All right. Johnny Bashier, 811 Louisiana. So, two things. If you put her back in as city manager
right now, what are you afraid she's going to do that's going to cost the city in the future? That's the decision. What she going to what are you afraid she's going to do that's going to cost the city in the future? The second thing is there's two forms of litigation, as you're well aware, civil and criminal.
To me, if it's criminal, that's a lot higher problem than if it's not. It's also a lot shorter legal process than a litigation that can go on for years. If you're going to do that, I would say just
put it on the legal side. If she on the criminal side, if she's found guilty criminally, yeah, but if she's not or it's dismissed or they they review it and say there's no charge to be filed, reinstate her then. Don't leave her out of office for the rest of her life because you know how this litigation's
going to go. Thank you. [Applause] Would you like to motion? So, that's a good point. On the litigation side, it could take forever. I do think that if we do this, we need to uh put a time frame of uh that we
need to re-evaluate. So, I would say if it becomes 60 days, then we need to re-evaluate this. Um, again, say 30 days or really two weeks. I don't I mean the FDLA review should be underway.
So I I'll meet you at 30. So let's put a more definite date on it in regards let's say a commission meeting so we can actually have it on the agenda. So let's say the August 12th commission meeting. the I would the August 12th commission
meeting andor if the review is completed by FDLE before then so we can have another special commission meeting if the review is completed before August 12th let's do the second meeting in August okay unless there's a FDL
unless Yeah, unless unless Flee is completed and we can make a decision then. All right. Uh, so you've amended, Pat. Do you second that? Are you in agreement with that amendment? So, we're putting a time frame on it
till we reconvene on it. Right. That we we'll redisuss it the second meeting in August unless the FDLA review is completed before then. Second that. All right. calling box 159 North Kimbell. Tell me
that you been compromised without telling me you've been compromised. You just sat there and voted not to fire her. Now you want to make a motion and get a second to suspend her without pay or to get rid of her. Tell me you will compromise without telling me you'll
compromise. Wait minute. I don't need I don't really need your response. I got this. You can't sit there and tell me that this makes sense in nobody's world. This is stupid on nine different levels. You say we've been doing this because of
race. What else is left? I'm going give you a quote from Mr. Spock since y'all Star Trek fans out here. When you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, however improbable, therefore must then be the truth. And the truth has come out today. This was
never about the numbers. It was never about Vickiy's ability to do the job or her current actions of doing the job. This was about one man's personal vendetta with her. This was based in race. It wasn't based in
gender. It wasn't based in anything else. And I don't care who says what cuz Tony Bostic stand 10 toes down on what he says. Now, you sat there and just voted no not to get rid of her to to terminate her employment. So, if you voted not to
terminate unemployment, in whose mind does it make sense to turn around and make a motion to suspend her? Well, not everybody's mind has a full functioning uh cognitive system, but that's beside the point.
This you you guys you can't have you can't have it both way, Mr. Peoples. You can't have it both way. The only thing people have gotten up here, 90% of the people stood before you today is said to do the They didn't ask you to uh uh recreate the universe. They asked you to do the right thing.
That's all. That's all we asked was you to do the right thing. And you sit there and you have this uh appearance of, "Oh, it's troubling my soul." It ain't troubling your soul a bit in the world. Cuz if it was when you voted no, the next motion would be to
adjourn. Mr. Perno, I thought better of you and Mr. Peoples. Now, Mr. Ward and Miss Miss Tender, I already knew y'all, so I you know, that snake ain't going to bite me. That snake ain't going to bite me. But I actually
thought, Mr. Peoples, you and Mr. Pero had better in you. I prayed that you had better in you. Sometimes when you put too much faith, as they say in the military, when you get in a uh a war there, uh Mr. Brad, faith,
confidence, fidelity, and trust. When you put too much of that in a person, you see what happens. I hope you can sleep with yourself tonight. Thank you. Cory Lane for 112 Louisiana. You got talked into something with this whole litigation fees and you guys are about
to enter into a treacherous water here. I wish the city attorney would have spoken up and warned you about this. Here's the thing. The motion on the floor is with a with a determination in the criminal suit of innocent or guilty. That's what the
litigation fees are tied to. No one's talked about the fact of the criminal investigation could end in neither of those. no attorney, but this is probably a time where you need to speak up and say, "Hey, there's an there's an instance
here to where FDLE may choose to not prosecute after discovery of months of it. Litigation lawyer fees have have have been racked up for months. There's no innocent. We're not guilty.
All right. That's why you got talked into this and it's dangerous. Come on. You guys are about to sign the city up for some bill because you're doing something outside of what you should be doing. Okay,
make a decision. You all have done the interviews with individuals. You know what was discussed. We don't. All right. I look, I I'm not I'm not going to sit up here and say one way or the other. What I'm What I'm concerned about is the process. I've heard people say, "Well,
you got to you got to wait for this whole thing to be done before you can act." That's not true. It is absolutely not true. Let me give you a hypothetical example. All right. A school teacher, and this is extremely sick, but it happens in America every day. A school teacher gets accused of
having child pornography on their computer. Do you think if that happened in Bay District schools that Mr. McQueen should say, "Well, we got to let them teach eighth grade math until we figure out whether or not they're they're guilty or not." No.
That person would be removed faster than you could blink an eye. Make a decision based on what you all found out this week. And let's press on. All right. The sun, God willing, the
sun's going to rise tomorrow. Okay? And we're going to have some reflecting to do. Whichever way y'all choose to go today, it don't matter. All right. Well, we're going to have to peel this onion back and figure out where we could have where we could have done things better. We've seen this movie play out. It just happened not long ago with the whole
Ricky Ramy incident. There was an employment decision based on that and I'll say it was absolutely fumbled 100%. The city was in an uproar for months because people said, "H, we're not going to do anything. We got
to we got to wait and let this thing play out. You don't have to do that. Make a decision today. That's what we elected you for and that's what we expect. Sarah Marlor, I just wanted to say the topic of the meeting today was for are
we terminating Miss Vicki or are we bringing her back? Y'all voted on bringing her back. Whatever came to light in those interviews, whether your eyes were opened to whatever it might be, there's an HR process put into place that is not going to cost the taxpayers
likely millions of dollars. This could go on for years. It It could even criminally it could go on for years. And if Miss Vicki is as smart as I know she is, she's gotten a bulldog attorney. And guess what?
we're gonna be out. And I know my husband when he was running was accused of being a millionaire, but we're not. And every penny in our house is counted. And we don't have all this extra money to be throwing in. So everything that Miss Vicki has saved us is fixing to be
thrown out because of bogus lies. Y'all just sat up here and said, and Mayor Nelson said, y'all substantiated in the interviews. nothing criminal was done. Yeah.
And we voted to bring her back. Now, the civil thing's been going on since 2021. So, if you're going to look at it criminally, yeah, we no city did open that can of worms. And I'm still not sure why, but we did. Don't cost the taxpayers more money. And
don't lose the money that Miss Vicki has saved us. Y'all want to complain about roads? Yeah, they're awful. Guess what? Put it into the roads. Put it back into our parks. Put it into our concerts in the park for our family. Let her come
back to work and do her job. And if there's an HR process in place, let it do its job. Call to order. You all have put yourselves in a very precarious situation. This lawsuit,
very many people are aware of, does not just have one named defendant. It has two at this moment. There's a defense attorney hired, and to my understanding, that defense attorney sat in on these HR reviews
and heard the positions given by those employees. Am I Am I false in those accusations? Was was anyone from that law firm present at any of your meetings? If so,
what defense was given to the employees of this city that were giving testimony? No one was under oath. Yes. Because it was an HR matter and no lawyer from someone who is a named
defendant should have been in that room. You want to talk about risk and liability? You guys need to start making smart decisions as a commission. Give them good legal advice because this matter is going to get worse if you
continue to go down these paths. You all need to figure out what you want to do and you need to act upon it. but to continue whatever circus this has turned into on both sides. And don't give me the ms
in the back. It's both sides. Y'all need to make a choice and you need to do it quick. There's a liability that runs with doing nothing. And remember, it's not just about one side or the other. It's not just about this event.
Was there discrimination or harassment given in the workplace? Find that out. Go talk to the employees of this city. You really want to do an investigation, they will tell you. You want to find out if it's a toxic workplace or not, go find out. You want to find out if it's a
toxic city. If people really are afraid of being arrested for inspecting the wrong building or, you know, getting a traffic ticket or their families pulled over or false evidence being given against them and having to spend their own capital for criminal defenses to be
only found innocent and then sue the city in multiple lawsuits. You guys are responsible to mitigate those risks. I want you to get briefed on every single lawsuit that is being civily
brought against this city. And I want you to go back and I want you to really think about the commonality in all of those lawsuits. I want you to go and investigate. Do these employees feel safe? Because three directors leaving, a fourth one on the way out, and
potentially even more following that, your city will be crippled in a matter of weeks. Do we have three directors leaving? We had one that just retired. Hold on. Let's let's get a point of clarity. Uh statement was made that
three directors are leaving. Do we have three directors leaving? We had one retire, Amanda Richard. Okay. So, there's not three directors leaving. Not to my knowledge. Okay. James Barker, I I just have a question
because I was listening to Mayor Nelson and what he said was that he implicated each and every one of y'all in this proceeding. So now if she didn't do anything without y'all approval. So now
y'all are here judging her. The one that gave her the approval to do everything that you accuse her of doing. So I was just wondering, are you going to suspend yourselves? Are you going to withhold your money? Because everything that he said you gave
approval to. Nothing was done undercover. All this corruption, you were right there. You voted on it. So now, if you voted on what you accusing her of, are you going to suspend yourself?
Are you going to take your pay? It doesn't make sense. Instead of standing behind your vote, you're looking for a scapegoat. You're looking for a scapegoat. That's all. when you can own up to your
own mistake. Just say the city made a mistake. Don't try to blame one person for what all y'all did. Every one of you voted for it. So what's the problem?
I was not here. Okay. I'm sorry. And I'm the one that made the motion. I just want to make that clear. It's my motion. The reason the reason I'm saying that because it has been pointed out that those that were here, those that was in chairs that they're sitting in
right now, not in this building, but in another building, but those that were sitting in the commission seat, some of you were here agreed to everything she has been accused of. So, it doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense. You know, you're afraid. You are afraid to be the man and woman that you're supposed to be. You're just afraid. You're afraid you gonna get voted out of office. Let me tell you something about office. Your office don't mean anything without
integrity. I don't care how long you stay in office. I don't care how long I don't care how many votes you get. If you don't have integrity, you don't have anything. You just got a possession. But I remember once somebody said something about
going to heaven and hell. A lot of people don't believe in hell, but I do. And I believe in heaven. And I can't put nobody in hell. And I can't put nobody in heaven. But you can put yourself in hell. And you can put yourself in
heaven. You need to choose what's right. Do what's right. That's all we're asking. Do what's right. Thank you. [Applause] Um, I had to condense my words and I really have to condense my words because
a pastor when you give a preacher a platform, he might go a long lot over three minutes. Um, two things. I've heard a lot about HR. Where is HR? Why aren't they present? Where's their voice?
If there's a lot of allegations that are being made with regards to how a supervisor manager handles their people, okay, show the records of HR. Show the complaints that were put into HR. If you
can't do that, that's he says, she says. Last thing, the I I understand the proposal that's put forth, but the message that that sends instead of our our legal system is set
up that you're innocent to but the message that this sends is that we're going to you're going to be treated as somebody who's guilty until you're proven innocent. So, I I I really agree that a definitive
decision has to be made. It's either she's good. It's either left or right. And there's no middle. Either she's innocent until proven guilty or she's guilty until proven insinent. Make a decision. Thank you,
Sam. I just with regard to the civil lawsuit in particular, there won't be a pronounce. Stop the clatter right now for we actually have the attorney speaking. There will not be a pronouncement of innocence or guilt. That's not how the civil suit works. There will be maybe a
determination of liability on the city or Vicki or maybe not. There may be a settlement or a complete dismissal. the actions of the city this week have definitely affected the lawsuit and will affect the lawsuit and that's I think problematic and creates a big unknown.
Um so I just I want to put that out there because you're not going to get a pronouncement of innocence or guilt from that lawsuit and I'm not even sure you're going to be able to imply one from however it ends. So I I want to lay that there. I also want to say you can
the city is authorized to pay attorney expenses, but I would also ask or at least caution you um to save that discussion for later. Um that is an unbudgeted expense at this point. You are very early in the process and it could be very expensive. You can still
do it later. You can still make that motion to approve her attorney expenses later on down the road when more is known. I just would caution you about doing that right now. then I'll resend my second to form another motion.
All right. So, just some points of clarity. There is no HR process because the way that our charter is written, the city manager serves at the pleasure of the commission. What I I actually really agree with what you're saying, but I did
bring that up in our talks and it was advised to me by the attorney that there is no you make a case and then when the case is built, you can fire or keep. I I did suggest that and I agree with that method. However, that's not
the way our charter works. There is no like process of building a case with official records. You can you can literally fire the city manager because you don't like the color of her shirt. Decent. I would never do that. That's a bad analogy. Okay. Is it?
Um I apologize. I did not mean it if it was taken that way. Um uh but that I just wanted to clarify that. And so I I will uh amend my motion for uh
to take the litigation side out of it. Just leave the I thought we we've already amended it for that. No, he just he just didn't he he just removed what what she was referring to. We've already amended the motion to take out
the litigation side. No, I'm saying the motion was already re we've already amended the motion to take out the litigation initially when we we did the motion. So the litigation was already taken out, right? He just mentioned litigation for
the litigation referring to the the civil side. Okay. So, I guess the previous motion which just includes the FDLE investigation, but we will re-review the attorney fees later.
The attorney fees are out of the motion, correct? Yeah, I'll second the motion. All right, Miss Parker. I'd like to remind everyone that this is
coming full circle from the original Hurricane Michael corruption case. Marggo Anderson was charged with 64 counts and arrested immediately. Every single one of those charges were
dismissed. Every single one of them. And what was her charge? for getting a date. for getting a date that was not true
that she spent 30 days in prison for. And Vicky Gainor sat there on the federal court and praised Michael White. said that he was a wonderful person that
that he stole $5 million from the city. Y'all don't think there's something wrong with that. Y'all think that's okay? It's not okay. And that's why this is coming full circle. That's why all this information
is coming to a head. It has taken years for this to come to a head and it's it's way past time. And guys, we we need to quit the public commentary and get on with a vote. Get on with the vote.
Get on with the vote. You don't need to tell me what to do. Nobody back there needs to tell me what to do. I'm in public commentary right now. So, y'all need to get on with the vote. Quit the public commentary,
get your motions, and go forward. It It's This has been going on for too long. Call to order. Call to order. One question, Mayor. With all the back
and forth that's been going on, Gay Spakes, uh, 1019 Mississippi Avenue. With all the back and forth that's been going on, I'm not sure I know what the motion is. Can you repeat the motion? Commissioner Peoples, can you repeat what the motion is so that we all know
what the motion is? Thank you so much. Or the secretary, thank you so much. I mean, that's a valid point. Can I just make a comment here? Well, hold on. Let her let him repeat the motion first and then we'll come to the comment.
All right. The motion is suspension without pay until the FDLA FDLE review is complete. If she is found innocent, she is fully reimbursed. Okay. With the implication that she is not innocent or
guilty until that is determined. And while she's on suspension, she should not have uh a device, a city device or any contact with employees. But it does include her insuranceances.
It does include her insurance, everything that is that will allow her to still be able to go to the doctor and all that stuff. All right, Commissioner Ward. I know there's been a lot of disagreement today, but one thing I think both sides agree on, and I have to agree with them,
is you either on one side or the other. You're either for termination or not termination, come back to work. Uh I think Mr. Langford said it perfectly that she it may come down to uh what do
they call it? No low contende, no low uh no contest. What do you do with that? you know, um I I think you have I think that is one thing that's definitive that's come out of this whole thing is you have to be you have to make a decision.
Okay. Well, let me say this. I'm just going to be real then. My decision was not based on a deposition. It's from other information that's come to me. If it's the deposition only that we're voting on, she still has her job in my mind. Okay. But there's other stuff that I
cannot go to bat for it. cannot happen. And so that's where I'm at. Make a motion. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I've had a trip to the trough. I want one more. I'm understand the dynamics of this. I've done a lot of
litigation in my working life. What's our relationship to these attorneys? Are they by the hour? Are they on staff? Because the only person smiling during all this is the guy with the $15 an hour parallegal and he's getting 150 bucks an hour. Sort through it. So, do we have an
attorney? Is she hours or is she on staff or No, we pay are are you paid hourly today? Yeah, she's paid. Be careful because in my experience, and I'm not defaming you at all, having attorney is like owning a jukebox. When you put quarters in, it sings.
Correct. So, we And it sings the song you want to hear. You pick it. Yeah. We pay pick it. So, I just want to understand as a citizen, this legal thing could get real expensive real quick. It does. All right. There's a motion and second on the floor. Uh,
assistant city manager, if you call the vote or somebody going to Are you changing your motion? All right. Motion second on the floor. Assistant city manager if you call the vote. Commissioner Peoples, we've already he just restated the
motion. All right. City Manager, Assistant City Manager, if you call the vote. Commissioner Peoples, yes. Commissioner Pero, yes. Commissioner Warick, no. Commissioner Tinder. Can't hear you.
Okay. I have to say no. Mayor Nelson, no. Motion fails. [Applause] All right. So, city attorney, we've made a we've had two different motions now
that are both failed. Do you have a recommendation for the commission or I I should say here's here's my here's one question. on you have two options left as I see that on Monday we voted to
put her on administrative leave for 5 days I believe it was until after that it was with the understanding that you would come and make a decision today about what happened next. So you have to I feel like you have to make a decision today about what happens next. So now,
do we have since we've failed to make a motion or pass a motion to terminate her, pass a motion to suspend her, then does it at at what point does it go back to okay, she goes back to work on
Monday? Are we at that point now? So, the three motions you have left are to suspend without pay and no strings attached for a certain amount of time, which you state. You suspend her with pay for an amount of time, or you make a
motion that she her suspension is over and she returns to work. That could that could get a second. It did fail for lack of a second, but I suppose it could. Again, I make a motion that we end the city manager's paid administrative leave
and return to work on 72125. Call for a second. My bad. Is there a second? last chance for a second. All right, motion fails. [Applause]
All right. So, that motion failed. So, again, you're left to suspend her without pay, stating a time certain, or suspend her with pay with a time certain. I don't know what other options are left to you. Look, you know what? I'll make a motion
to keep her on administrative leave with pay pending the FDLE review. I'll second. Oh, I can't. Just kidding. I can't. I have the gavl. I'm not allowed to second. Is there a second?
Motion dies. Motion dies. Look, people voted for us for a reason. We need to step up and make a decision. Someone even made the comment. Why is it you always make the motion? Well, if you watch past meetings, there are times I
just sit back and I let you guys run the meeting. And you know what happens? It's delay, delay, delay, and then they all look at me. Okay? You're either going to step up, be a leader, or not. You're going to piss people off. Okay? Either way, step up. Make a decision. Now,
call to order. Call to order. Hold on. We don't have a motion for public commentary right now. We We're still figuring it out. Call to order. So, you can also rec make a motion to end the city manager's paid administrative leave and return to work on 72125.
Is there a second? I'm going to give one more chance. All right. Motion dies. You There can also be a motion to reconsider a prior motion that failed. Procedurally it can be done.
Is there any other motions that you all would like to make? So, city attorney, what happens if we Right now we're at a stalemate. So, what happens if we don't make a passing motion today for anything? I suppose she stays on administrative
leave until you make a decision about what happens about her employment. Your the motion on Monday hinged on a decision of the of the commission. So if you make no decision, the status quo is that she remains on admin paid leave. All right. I make a motion to terminate
city manager effective immediately. That's my motion. All right. So there's a motion. Is there a second for that? Second. Your comments. Bill Martin, 1710 Rit Place, uh,
Linhaven. This is the first time I've ever addressed the commission. Um, and I'm not addressing the commission at this stage, pro or con, Vicky Gainor. I'm addressing you guys. I have never seen
such wishyw not wanting to make a decision. You're floating, buddy. You're riding between the ditches, riding the fence. When you voted to suspend Vicky Gainor, four of you voted to to to uh suspend
her. You included. You included. Now, based on comment today, you've changed your vote and you're riding the fence. You guys have got to straighten up and you got to start making some intelligent decisions. You're running a major city.
Major employees here. The life of a lot of individuals are being affected and you're not making decisions. Base your decisions on the facts. Please make up your mind. We've been here a long time and it's How many motions have
we made? Come on. All right, at this moment we will take a 5m minute recess. We'll be back at 236 to reconvene. I'll be right here at 236. We have uh a motion on the floor for termination with a second. We're
receiving public commentary at this time. 112. There we go. I just turned it on. Thank you. Um, so here's the deal. You guys can throw the deposition out
the window. All right. you can throw uh the FDLE, whatever out the window. Every one of y'all sat down with individuals and conducted your own quote internal investigation, if that's what
you want to call it, okay? Based on what you all found out, again, I'll say it again. I don't want to know what was discussed. All right? But I guarantee you whatever you were told in those question and answers, it's going to come up again. Whether it's in court,
whether it's for a criminal investigation, whether it's for for for a lawsuit, it's going to come up again. All right? So, but but let's throw the criminal investigation out. Let's throw the deposition out. I don't want you to think about anything else right now about other than the interviews that you
conducted this past week. You all have said it already. An employee can be fired from the city because Florida is a right to work state. You need very little to terminate an
employment. Okay? I don't know what y'all found out. I don't know what the question and answers were and I don't want to know and none none of you should say anything about it because you're going to get in legal trouble. I don't care how well you're tried to talk be talked into it. All right? But every one
of you know deep down what was said. If there was alarming things that were told to you that are fireable offenses, forget about the deposition. Forget about the lawsuit or whatever. And and any anybody that sits up here and tells
you that if you take action, you're jeopardizing. So, no, that's that's a that's a truckload of baloney is what that is. You're here to mitigate risks for the city. Okay. any attempt for somebody to delay that.
I I I think that's that's it disingenuous, first of all. And second of all, if I were you, I'd call a federal judge and ask him or her, hey, if we if we make an employment decision here, is there a possibility? This is the advice we're receiving, and I just
want to verify and validate that this is actually correct. Y'all need to start questioning stuff that's being told to you. Throw the deposition out. Throw the lawsuit out. forget about all that and think about what y'all were asked or to do this week, which was conduct
interviews. Whatever the information was, they might have came in there and said, "Man, she's she's got a a purple unicorn in her backyard and she's the greatest person ever, and I want to keep her on as as as a as my boss." Okay, great. Then vote on that. Vote based on that answer. All right? But if they came
in there and told you something else that's a fireable offense, then you need to make a decision on that, too. One way or the other, I don't care. But I don't trust the process. Tony Ber 159 North Kim. On Monday, you made a decision to suspend the city
manager, Miss Vicky Gainer, pending your own private investigation, which you don't have subpoena power. You don't even have power to put them on under oath. So, they could have lied and there's nothing you can say about it or do about it. Now the the crux of that was we come back on
Friday, we decide whether or not to fire the city manager. You made that decision today and Commissioner Peoples, you want to inject a a
gotcha clause. Well, let's just suspend or we pay until the FDLE investigation is done. Your attorney and half of the people sitting out here that know anything about the legal process knows that could have a finding a not guilty or guilty or decide that
we're not going to pro uh proceed with this and then you still in the same boat. So, you trying to tell me that she's going to be guilty whether we like it or not and you're going to do exactly what you want to do. Commissioner Perno,
you over there in the cheap seats with the seconds. This is this this has got to be the craziest unfolding of events in the history of of Lin Haven. The simple thing was when you voted not to fire her, that was the end. When you voted
not to, you amended that to say, "Okay, well, we're not going to fire her, but we going to still punish her." That failed. The next motion that should have been made was I offer a motion that we adjourn this meeting right now. That should have got a second and that should
have got five yays. But no, you let me tell you two guys something. You cannot throw rocks and hide your hands. You can't live in a glass house and cast stones. Now they always say give the devil his
due. I give the two devils. Warrick and Tender, they're due. At least they're sticking by what they said. I don't like it, but I give the devil they do. They at least are standing by
what they said. You two get off the fence and do the right thing. This is not hard. This is not something that requires a rocket science degree or astrophysics or what what do you want? Underwater basket weaving degree in
order to figure this out. do the right thing. If you done been compromised by James Finch and his henchmen, that's okay. It ain't really okay, but it's okay. But you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You got to make a decision, and the decision should
be to ajourn without any further ado. How simple is that? Thank you. There's a motion on the table. And I'm actually going to agree with Mr. Bostic on something. Ai decision needs to be made today and you all need to do the right thing. You know, the HR
manager um in case somebody didn't know is Miss Hodgees and she's sitting right here. Okay. Uh people who don't come to commission meetings don't know that. Again, a decision has to be made. It's already been said multiple times. Okay. She could be fired for any reason. And I
think there had I I'll finish where I started. There's been multiple reasons to fire this woman from from here. I don't like it. I wish she was doing a great job and that nothing was happening. I don't care if the hecklers don't believe that. I actually liked Vicky Gainer when she first came on.
Pat, I was at the meeting when she was brought on board by Margaret Anderson. She had been acting city manager. She came on. I actually said, "Oh, girl power. I think this is great. Two women are going to make things happen." And it didn't work out that way. I don't care who believes me and who doesn't. Okay.
The bottom line is a decision has to be made here today. There's a motion in a second to terminate immediately. Sam, you said it earlier. You said if it was a decision between termination or your choice that you would vote to terminate. I believe you said that earlier. Okay.
And then your motion did not pass. So Pat, what is right for this city right now? Is this good for the city? Is this good for the citizens? I don't think so. I think this is horrible. This has been a horrible few hours. It everybody's angry. Everybody's calling names. I've been called a Karen multiple times when
I walk by there. This is horrible and this should not be happening. Forget the noise behind you. Think about what you need to do for the city. Mayor Nelson, I will agree with her that says do what's right for the city. I I also agree
Call to order. My time shouldn't start yet. Call to order. Call to order, please. All right, Miss Miss. Yes. Yes, sir. Thank you so much. Uh,
you know, I could respect you guys if you stood on your word. Your word is your bun. If you don't believe this is the right thing to do, then don't do it. Don't look down on the other end and see somebody's giving you the eye or the
wink or whatever and and giving you the nod to say, "We're not going to do this." Because if you liked her and you voted to bring her on, now you don't like her and you're going to fire her for no reason at all. I think that's a problem all by itself. But if you are
man or woman enough to say there's some things that are going on. I believe in due process. I believe that a person should have the opportunity to correct the things that are not working or that are not right. Because I guarantee you
this, if any one of you were sitting in the hot box and it was your job, your livelihood that was at risk of you not having that,
this would be a different this would play out differently. So follow your heart, follow what has been put before you and be the men and women that the city, the citizens of Lynh Haven have
elected for you to be and stop all this back and forth. We've had six motions and you need to make one and let it be done. put the girl back on her job and let her do her job the in the right way and stop playing
God over her. George name and address on record. You five people were elected to do a job. Some of you do it angrily, some of you happily, but you're not going to please everybody. You got over 21,000 people
living in Le Haven. You got about a 100 people that raised saying every time we come to a meeting. I've been coming to the meeting over 30 years. Some of them been coming five or six and they think they know more about the citizen than people that have been living here all their lives. Something wrong with that system. Wherever they came from, they want to run things that way. They must
have got ran out cuz here you two need to make a decision and stick with it. Right or wrong, that's what you get paid for. I know you don't get paid much. Yeah. I'm so glad I didn't get elected, I tell you. Cuz I believe in the
military, we do leave, follow, or get out the way. So if you're going to be a leader, be a leader. If it's right or wrong, you got to deal with it. That's why you pray to God every night before you go to bed at night. Thank you. Good morning. And I'm going say, "Praise the Lord, everybody."
Praise the Lord. You want to say this not a race thing? I hear you. I pray it's not. But when the lady that just came forth and talked about Hurricane Michael, who we all trying to forget, stepped to Mayor's daughter and talking about Cameron's
camping black too. Tell me that's not racism. City assistant city manager if you call the vote. Commissioner Warick. Yes. Commissioner Tinder. Yes. Commissioner Peoples.
Forced my hand here. I mean I I tried to save I I gave my two options so I'm sticking to my guns. Yes. Commissioner Pero. Mayor Nelson. No motion passes.