Calling the meeting to order at 5:31 p.m. First, we're going to have the invocation and pledge of allegiance led by Pastor Frank Stevens. Heavenly Father, my prayer for our city of Plenhaven is for wisdom and
discernment for our commissioners as they consider the business of a very busy city and a growing city. Bless them with a shared vision that heals our divisions and brings reconciliation where there's conflict and misunderstanding. Father, we're a blessed people who call
this beautiful city of Linhaven our home. Let our hearts desire be one to foster a strong community spirit in our city. Encourage us to support one another and work together for the common good.
May we be united in our effort to create a better place for all residents of Lemon Haven. I speak your blessing, your protection over our police and fire personnel. Bless our city staff for their dedication and as they faithfully
serve the residents of Linhaven. May we all work collectively to achieve a prosperous and harmonious community and bring a about a positive change and a bright future for all who live in Laven. I speak this in the holy name of Jesus.
Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all.
>> All right, before we get started on public commentary, I just wanted to let everyone know that we do have Mayor Nelson on the phone with us. Um, just for your awareness. All right. So, going I'm going to go down the list. First, we have Republic commentary Zack Deweiler.
>> Good evening, Commission. Um, tonight I wanted to, I guess, speak on the topic of transparency. Um, it's a word that we've used a lot recently in a a good number of many things. Um, but what does it mean to be transparent?
It's easy enough to say that, well, we need to provide information or we need to communicate better and and things like that. But transparency isn't just an action, it's a mindset. Um, transparency is the idea that above
all else, we answer to someone higher. We answer to the community, we answer to our bosses. And because of that, we need to provide them with all the records and all the information so that they can make decisions because if they are in
charge of us, they need the facts. Same way that the boards that give you advice need as much facts as possible. Same way that the city manager from all of their department heads need information, the same way that you need information from
the city manager. Um, I always love bringing up Publix because it's, well, let's be honest, it's Publix and we all love it. Um, but Publix is ranked one of the number one businesses, I think, like 20 years running now. And it's not because
they have the best chicken sub sandwiches or they make hurricane cakes or things like that, but because it's a mindset that they have. the CEO was giving a an interview one time and they asked, "How do you make all of your employees give such good customer service at every
single one of your stores?" He goes, "Well, it's easy. I treat my entire board like I would want my customers treated. They treat their regional managers that way. their regional managers treat their store managers that way and so on and so forth down to the
line to the point that it's so ingrained in the culture of Publix to treat people like customers that when those cashiers and employees go and talk to the customers they know how to do it because it's just ingrained in it. If this city
is ever going to trust the people who work in this hall and the people that sit up on that board, transparency has to be something that is instinctual and the next city manager and the next people that are hired as directors and everybody who does business in the
people's hall. It has to be something that comes from here and not just a checklist that you follow. If it's a checklist, checklist will be forgotten. You can easily turn in a bid for a non-bid that's supposed to have a document in there. And you say, "Well,
what's the big deal? I've contracted for 10 plus years running projects that get audited for the next seven years in a row." And if you forget that one document, the person auditing in 5 years is never going to know the answer that you did because nothing was left there for it. And so it has to be instinctual
because you have to have that knowledge for the people that basically hold you accountable. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have uh Rich Walker. Good evening. Um two people previous to
me here speaking took some of the thunder away. Pastor said under God. I think you've forgotten that taking it off the sign and everything like that. Zach there just hit the subject I wrote about
a long time ago. I said very hard to find a person in the United States that does trusts their government. It's extremely hard and difficult right now to find somebody in Lin Haven that trusts you. You haven't earned it.
You've got four dire uh two directors right now that are not on board. You got four directors who are either lying to the public, are not transparent, or are apologizing to the public for not doing
their job correctly. You've got 2,000 citizens, three times signing a piece of paper to remove mayor. You've fired the city manager. You've got two directors right now that
have been deposed as con what I consider conspiring to rig the bidding process. You have no policy for appointing an intram city manager. City manager is the CFO, CEO and in
charge of the legislative branch of our government. Legislative branch of our government are unelected. Legislative branch of the government of the United States are all elected. That means they're responsible to us the people. That's what we're
forgetting here. The people run the government in Linhaven. It's the people on top. commissioners in the second row, the employees, directors in the third row,
and the people that work in the dirt do the job. If one person runs the legislative branch, the policy, the police, the finances, and all the functions of the city, then that's what you get. In 1950,
you were foretold. You get a direct, you get a dictator. John Lynch and his merry men and this ran this government for a long time and they ran it to the ground. They set the policies that you're going to do
and you're following them. They've been wrong. You have a assistant city manager. You're not using them. You went over her head. Government is by the people for the
people. You are our representatives. You are elected and we put you there. We pay you there. >> All right. Thank you. That's your time. >> And right now, we're not getting what we're paying for. Thank you.
>> Next, we have uh Mr. Finch. Are you looking to talk at both public commentary and number 22 or just 22 or just public? Okay. Well, it's coordin, you know, you're supposed to have an exhibit A with this
stuff for 22 and there's not one on the city website. I couldn't get any, you know. So, you're about to enter into a contract and and all the information is not here. I was reading, you know, and it says you going to
do this contract. It says this resolution shall be effective immediately upon PA passage. So you going to pass this today and is paying an individual $196,000
a year to work at sewer plant. So if you put exhibit A in here, we might know something about what the deal is, but you're going to pass this. This is the last thing on the agenda. And I got to looking at it. I said, "Why would it be last?" And then it says, "Affected
parties notified, not required." Well, it's it affects me as a taxpayer if you're going to pay two people $393,120 a year.
Or if you're just paying 40 hours without the overtime, it's $2,700 a week for a operator of the sewer plant. I bumped into Bobby coming here. He said, "We can't hire anybody." I says, "You got 220. Why don't you send some to
school and and they could have that?" I believe the city manager now has one of those license in his pocket. Has anybody ever paid you 196,000 a year for it? But it's in here to pass. Is that true? Is it 196,000 per person? >> No, sir.
>> It's not. It's 67 an hour. 6750 an hour and that's with 12 and a half%. So 67 time 40 hours is 2700 a week. 2700 a week if you pay the overtime the 56 56
hours that's 1,560 which that one person would make $4,260 a week. So I'd like to see other part of this bill here but it's ready. The last thing on the agenda just says affected parties
notified of meeting not required advertised. It says newspaper, but it says the contract passed and adopted this day shall be affected immediately upon passage. Are these people already working at the plant?
They are. Are these people this subcontractor working at the plant now? >> Want to address now Mayor Pro Tim or wait till the item? Yeah, we can just wait till the item. >> What we going to do? Are y'all going to answer?
>> We'll talk about it at the time at number 22. We'll discuss all that with >> We need to wait till the last. It's the very last >> We'll I'll talk about I'll I'll ask Mr. Lightoot and all which you asked. >> This is y'all's paper, not mine. Mhm.
All right. Next, we have Jody Moore. I signed in last, so I don't know how I ended up moving up the list, but that's fine. Um, I wasn't even sure I was going to say anything. Um, but kind of going along with what James just said, um, and I think I've had a
discussion with a couple other people. Um, I'm not a taxpayer in Linhaven, but you know, just a comment as someone from the outside. It seems to me that, you know, you all keep talking about fiscal responsibility and wanted to pull back on the finances because the city wants
to tighten things up and then there's new spending. So, a comment was made to me, well, do we not want to have any fun? And I'm not saying that at all. Of course, people want to have a good time and have fun. I know they're not doing trunk or treat. Um, you decided to not do the Easter egg hunt. But then I saw
recently some other spending that was added on. And so, the optics don't look good. So, you know, I'm just saying um maybe instead of new spending, maybe just keep what you have and what you've already agreed to pull back on until things get a little bit better
financially. So anyway, like I said, just a comment from me. I'm not saying that you should do away with all the fun. I think the art in the park thing has been going on for a while and maybe there's a grant involved in that. I don't know. But um like I said, some other spending has been happening and me just like I said from a person on the
outside to question that. I also want to also encourage again this commission please consider the people that you are putting into place in the city as employees on boards be very smart about
the people that you're putting in place because as we've seen when once you put someone in a position you have to practically blast them out with dynamite if the city doesn't want them anymore. I mean do we really want to go through all the angst and everything else again? So, it seems to me the the best thing to do
is to really in the first place put really good people in place that you feel confident with. Try to put the best people in place to start with and then you're not not going to have a problem later on down the road. And the same thing goes for committees. Of course, these people volunteer and I know sometimes it's hard to get the
volunteers to step forward, but again, these are people making policy and they're helping you all make decisions. So, you want to have the best people. Also, just a quick comment in case I have to leave early regarding number 15. And I think Christie is probably going to speak to this. Um, I know this is something that the, you know, the
octaves look good and it's like a feel-good kind of thing, but be be very careful and cautious about the ramifications of what the support letter means and and what exactly you're getting into by providing this letter of support. Thank
you. >> Thank you. All right, we're moving on to number four, additions, deletions, or modifications of the agenda. Does anybody have anything they want to add or delete or modify? >> Yes, Mr. Mayor.
>> Yes, sir. No. Could you say that one more time? >> I got you, mayor. So, he would like to add to the agenda discussion and possible approval to suspend utility payments for those affected by the federal government shutdown. Oh,
>> okay. Just suspend them. Okay. I will add that we Is everyone fine with adding that >> on it? I think we got a vote on it. >> Okay, >> I I'll second the motion.
>> All right, so we have a motion on the table to add an agenda item for suspending utility bills for those affected by the government shutdown. Uh we call the role. Mayor Nelson,
>> yes. >> Commissioner Ward, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, sorry. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero, >> yes. >> Mayor Pro Tim Peoples, >> yes. Motion passed. We'll add that as number 23.
>> And mayor prom also item 7A will not happen tonight. >> Oh, right. Thank you. The uh Jennifer is not here, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Do we need a vote on that one? Okay.
>> Let me do my notes real quick. All right. If we don't have any anything else that anyone want for that's good for the order. All right, we're moving on to the mayor's report. Mr. Mayor,
>> good evening to uh past couple of weeks have been um eventful. um have been able to uh attend some various functions in the community to uh represent the Citadel Haven. Um on
last well on last Monday, we were uh able to go down and represent um Citin Haven for the uh delegation um meeting there with um our state senator Jay Trumbull and our state representative
Griff Griffiths. And so just able to tell them thank you for their support over the years. Um even in last session helping us get the um million or $980,000 we needed towards our engine number 52 um as well as just making them
aware. I mean, we've already been in discussions with them about our appropriations, but just bringing it to their attention again of what we're um asking for and the legislative appropriations and just, you know, wanting to continue to just build good
relationships um with them as well. Um in regards to uh Engine 52, want to say thank you to the um station two from uh Linhaven Fire Department.
uh EMS um as well as Linhaven Police Department um and our battalion chief over at station 2. On last Tuesday, my father had a a medical emergency and so everyone was there to um to have all hands on deck and to get him to the
hospital in a timely manner. And so, um, that's where I've been for the past seven days or eight days now has been at the hospital with him, taking a couple of breaks, um, to go home and, uh, freshen up and then go back and be with him there or take care of a couple of
errands I needed to run. But, um, so just, you know, appreciate everyone's thoughts and prayers in his recovery, um, from his medical emergency on last week. And again, thank you to um Linhaven Fire, Linhaven Police um as well as Bay uh EMS for their excellent
service and um the critical care that he needed um for his survival. You still alive with us today because of because of their life saving me. So very appreciative for them. Got a chance to experience engine 52 before I wanted to, but um it was very timely what was
needed. So that's my report. Thank you, mayor. Guess we'll just go down the seats for the commissioner's reports. So, I'll go first. Uh this past few weeks, we had the city government week um here in the city and that went really well. We had coffee with the
commissioners. Uh I think it was Monday morning. Um that was a great event. There was a lot of people showed up and so that was really cool. Um, not going to lie, I didn't expect that many people and so I was uh happily surprised and so thank you for everyone that came out to that and everyone that made that happen.
Uh, I also had a coffee meet that Saturday as well with if anyone wanted to meet with just me. So, thank you to everyone that came out to that. Uh, we also had, as you can see on the walls here, we had a art competition with um, Dearpoint Elementary and Mo Middle
School and all of us got the honor to judge these pieces of art. even though I would venture to say it, they're all better than I could actually do. So, I felt kind of bad judging them because they were all better than what I could do. Uh, but they at 4:30 or 4:15 today,
we handed out the awards for first, second, third through fifth place. Uh, so thanks to the teachers and all the students that were involved and everyone at the city of Glen Haven for making that happen. Also believe that today is National First Responders Day, if I got
that correctly. So, uh, thank you to all the first responders out there. Um, dispatchers as well. Thank you all for what you do. Um, it does not go unnoticed. Thank you for that. And, uh, and then another thing I've been doing, and I'm sure we all have, is been
spending some time digging into the city manager um, position and and the applications and all that. So, thank you to head of HR back there. He's doing a great job. Thank you, sir. Um, getting us all that stuff. And, uh, that's my report,
Mr. Inerno. >> Thank Thank you, Mayor Prom. Um, I'd like to echo your sentiments on National First Responders Day all the way around and thank everybody and thank y'all for being here. I look out in the crowd and
I see the people who are being nominated for important committees in the audience and I see people who are always here with their cares and concerns and it means a lot to know that you know that you guys care enough to be
here. So, um I too attended the coffee with commissioner. I think it was great. I I profess that I got more out of that than I would from any email or or um any potential uh comments. When you're face
to face with somebody, it means a lot. You can see their what what's on their face, what what their body language is, what their emotions are. Um it means it means a great deal to be one-on-one with people. Um,
the art contest was really hard to judge as as they always are, but this one particularly I I I know I gave the same scores to a lot of people. So, and there were several ties today. So, that was it was it was great work and and the the
the families that were here was a lot more in attendance than what's here right now. So, it's great to see people come out for stuff like that. Um I I too I did attend the delegation meeting, but I didn't make it for the Linhaven um u presentation. I was running behind
everybody getting there. Um probably due to two large golden retrievers at my house, but I'm not going to blame it on them. Um I attended um the county commission meeting the next day and uh the day after that I attended and
chaired the St. Andrews Bay, St. Joe Bay Estroy Program Policy Board meeting. So, I just wanted to just let you know a little bit of what I'm doing and I'm always available. My phone number is 850774-6128. Um, I have a place of business down the
road. Um, I'm I'm always available for anybody who would like to get in touch with me. So, that being said, thank you again. >> Thank you, sir. Moving on to Commissioner War. I >> I don't have anything. Thanks. I I do want to add one thing. I will add um
I'll get with um I'll get with the guys in the back and I'll add the meeting notes from the estuary program meeting um to my report so it'll be public. >> Thank you, Commissioner War. You say you don't have anything. All right, Commissioner Tinder.
>> Thank you, Proent Mayor. Um I had a the best time during government week. I didn't even know it was possible. Um, we went to the coffee or the breakfast on Monday. I got to sit down with residents. I actually got to sit down
and have a conversation with three of our new employees that I had not met. And that was uh remarkable. You can learn so much from somebody face to face. And um then after Monday, they had a t-shirt giveaway. Now, this
is right up my alley because I like a good challenge. And the city of Lin Haven, if you took your receipt from any restaurant in Lyn Haven over here, the first floor, the lady was sitting out here giving away free
t-shirts. So, I would take a to- go order, say, "Here's your receipt. Go get your shirt and come back and pick up your food." And I'm telling you what, we gave away a ton I mean a ton of t-shirts. It was >> It was so much fun. Anyway,
um then the other thing I have unfortunately or fortunately depending um I'm just going to read this statement. Um
I have a statement to read to the residents. I find this incredible while also knowing that our city has honest employees. I received a visit from an employee and I was told the following.
Thousands of dollars worth of IT equipment was brought to our police department by Sam Blake. Sam is our last IT director. In the returned items,
um, in the returned items that were stored at Mr. Blake's home were a number of drones, microphones, television sets, drills, laptops, and
miscellaneous IT items. According to this employee, directors were all called and told to come to the police department and take what their departments needed. All IT equipment, like everything else,
should be inventoried and marked. Any items over $5,000 should be considered fixed assets. All I kept asking myself was this. Um, when did this uh when did he decide to
start storing all the equipment at his home and why? How do we know if some equipment hasn't been sold? Has he been arrested? Did any of the commissioners know about this? And Chris, when did all this take place?
Who told the department heads to come and retrieve items? And was there a case number assigned to this incident? So, did any of you commissioners know about this? Yes, I was informed after the fact um
when I had my one-on-one sit down with Mr. Lightfoot and he explained everything and which I'm sure he's going to explain everything in a minute. >> Thank you. Same. >> Same. You knew about it also? >> Yeah, I was informed oneonone told what
happened and I'm sure Yeah, Mr. Life will talk about it. >> Okay. Pat, were you told also? >> Yes, ma'am. Upon his upon his um um I I believe Chris will explain the circumstances. So, so I was I was
brought to my attention at the time that um that that those items were being brought back. So, >> you got the show, Chris? >> Yes, ma'am. As you said, the items uh we had some missing items. We talked to our former IT manager. He brought some items
back. Our police department did an inventory as we talked about. The items were stored in police or in the evidence room. The police turned it over to the state's attorney's office after the investigation was completed. The state's attorney's office declined to prosecute.
The police, we got all the equipment back down and we put all the the tools within various departments, facilities, maintenance, public works, parks, it got it equipment, um TV, a TV was for the gym and went to the gym. There were no
items over $5,000, specifically one item. So, there were no fixed asset tags on those items. And how long has Mr. Blake been gone from employment here? >> I would guess about six months. So I'd
have to look back to >> So he's had all of this stuff for six months? No, ma'am. >> No. No. >> It was It was returned back in August when we talked about it. >> Oh, so this took place back in August. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Oh, prior to that time.
Okay. So, he didn't really have it long enough to do anything with it or why did he take it home? That's what I want to know. >> I'll answer that. >> Thank you. >> Is that that's all?
>> Oh, yeah. That's all. >> Okay. Uh on to the interim city manager report. >> So just a reminder that Halloween uh the gym will close at 5:00 pm. Union Soldier Park has been completed. When you get out of the meeting tonight, ride by. It looks really awesome at
night with the new lights and the sidewalks through there. We have 33 teams registered for youth basketball. November 1st, we will have the burning of the basis softball tournaments. Our youth volleyball registration is opening soon. A reminder that the commission meeting
for November uh November 11th is going to be November 12th. Uh because of Veterans Day, there's only one meeting in November and one meeting in December. Would also like to talk to the commission about possibly doing a workshop, possibly a Friday morning in
December to go over some capital projects that are outstanding, possibly some discussion and kind of get a game plan for the beginning of the year to how we move forward with some of these things. kind of some things have been out on the back burner for a little while and would like to do a workshop to kind of get direction from the
commission for staff. Um so think about that. I'll email out some possible dates and for everyone to respond to so we can kind of coordinate that. A reminder that Davis Lake draw down begins next week. It will go through uh the springtime. We
did receive approval from FDM for our generator closeouts for the HMGP projects today. So, we will begin uh reimbursement the reimbursement process for that. And then back to ServePro, the September 23rd agenda, the commission approved the budget
resolution to add the funds to cover the ServePro expense as well as to ratify the the invoice to ServePro. That is out on the warrant list uh this week. And Monday, we received notification that the first insurance check and of about
$190,000 has been cut and we should be receiving that hopefully this week or next week. And then we have the finance report from Miss Roman. [Music] >> Good evening. We have any questions about the check
that were submitted? Have any questions about the checklist or the reports that were submitted? The only question I have this week is uh the media center. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Uh was it 10,000 whatever? Can you tell
me what that's what is that for? The media center. >> It was around $13,000. That's the to VBA design. That is for the architectural >> drawings that I emailed you all the copies of. There's four different scenarios to expand the senior center.
>> Okay. It just said media center. So, I didn't know >> the check was made out to Panhandle Engineering for $10,312.50, the task orders for 16,850. >> Thank you. >> And may I offer a bit of information
with regard to the budget and the Yates contract. Included in the budget that you approved, we have 26 weeks at 30 hours per week. It totals up to $52,650
that is included in the budget for fiscal 26. >> Mayor Proin, would you like for me to go ahead and discuss that, too? >> Sure. >> So, yes, we are required by the state through our wastewater permit to staff the the plant 16 hours a day, 7 days a
week. We currently have one full-time city employee, one part-time city employee, and then we fill in the voids with a contractor. We reached out a couple or five or six months ago, received quotes from multiple companies. One was US Water. It's about $60,000 a
month to hire a company, US Water, to to staff the plant. We reached out to two other companies. They declined to quote because they were getting out of the business. We reached out to Yates Water or Yates Plumbing. He is able to provide licensed wastewater operators. They're out of Crest View to staff the
wastewater plant whenever we need him. Currently, we need him eight hours a day about 5 days a week. So, that is what this contract is for. It will be over 35,000. By the time it all adds up, so we're bringing it to the commission for approval. If we don't approve it, then
we do not have a license operator to fill the voids. And the fine from D will probably be about $250,000 by the time it totals up. So, we can staff it or we can collect the fine from D, but one way or another, we've got to do something at the plant. This also will be in the
discussion when we get the rate studies back for the county. One of the biggest issues is being able to staff the wastewater plant. So that is a concern we will have for the future of the expansion or becoming a wholesale customer of Bay County. >> Is is travel expenses for Crest uh
included in the contract? >> No, sir. Exactly what you're approving. $60 an hour to Yates Plumbing with a 12.5% administrative fee. The alternative company that was willing to do it was 60,000 a month. >> Their quote was just under 60 for one
quote and then they had another quote for part-time staffing which is around 27,000 >> a month. >> Yes, sir. >> Oh jeez. >> And I know when we had our one-on-one sit down going over the agenda, we
talked about we're not the only city that's having this problem trying to keep certified operators at wastewater plants. >> No, sir. They call it the the white wave as everyone's retiring and no one is being attracted to fill wastewater operator positions. It takes 2,80 hours
of of work time to be able to qualify for the license. You have to take a state test and a state course. Um in order to do it, we have had the position posted for a number of months. We get zero qualified applicants, nothing. >> If anyone has any licensed wastewater
operators, please send them our way. We will gladly hire them. it can start tomorrow >> and and the process to be certified is is over a year. You said >> it it generally takes about a year. 280 hours is a work 40 hours a week for 52 weeks. Um of course if they worked
overtime they could get that a little quicker. Um but we have not even had luck with a trainee staying getting licensed and and moving up. >> All right. Thank you for that. Uh, you got anything else to report? >> No, sir.
>> All right. City attorney's report. >> I want to point out that you have all received your applications for the city manager position and now staff is waiting on you to tell us what to do next. Um, normally you would create a short list um so that staff can then uh
start scheduling travel and interviews with those candidates. Um it's not on the agenda tonight. So hopefully on your next agenda um we can put it on the agenda for discussion so that you can give staff some direction. If you'd prefer to do that in a special meeting so you can talk about the applicants and
come up with a short list in that forum outside of a regular public meeting. That's up to you. Just please let staff know so that we can keep the process moving along. We're waiting for direction from you now. >> Thank you. Um
Mr. Mr. Holton also asked uh remember last meeting I asked directors if they had any questions. So he tked the directors or asked them to submit their questions by October 31st. So hopefully we'll get those questions by
then. Um I just want the directors to be able to get their input on what they answers or questions that they'd like to ask for in case we didn't think to ask them. So, um, anything else for the attorney? Okay.
All right. Moving on to the consent agenda. Before we uh vote on that, I would like to say thank you to all of those that uh volunteered to be part of the charter review committee. Um, it's a it's a very important role and I just
want you to know that I appreciate every single one of you. Um, thanks for however you got appointed whether that was one of us reached out to you or you you reached out to us. Either way, thank you very much. I appreciate it. All right. Is there a motion for the
consent agenda? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. Motion to approve by Commissioner War and seconded by Commissioner Kerno. Um, any further
discussion? All right. U, Mr. Lightoot, could you call the role? >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tender? >> Yes. >> Mayor Proen Peebles? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson? >> Yes.
>> All right. Motion passed. Uh, moving on to old business, discussion and possible approval of resolution 202510 479R approving the purchase of a side loader garbage truck.
>> Yes, sir. I had a typo in the quote that I provided for the resolution for the last meeting. So, the what you all approved was 48,000. When we went to put the requisition in, it was discovered it should have been for 418,000. So, that's why the resolution number has the R behind it. It's just reapproving the
resolution from the last meeting. And sorry, I'll read the resol. A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving the purchase of a labri atomizer Peterbuilt side loader garbage truck from Environmental Products Group in the amount of $418,740.81.
>> All right. Any uh do we have a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. Second >> motion to approve by Commissioner War, seconded by Commissioner Pero. Uh, any public commentary?
All right. Any further discussion from the commission? All right. Uh, my question is this is just because there's a typo is already in the budget, right? >> Yes, sir. It's in the sanitation budget. >> All right. Thanks. Would you please call the role? >> Commissioner Ward. >> Yes.
>> Commissioner Perno? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? Yes, >> Mayor Proen Peoples. >> Yes, >> Mayor Nelson. >> Yes. >> All right. Moving on to tabled items. Discussion and possible approval to
provide a letter of support to Panama City Rescue Mission for Emergency Shelter Project Compassion Homeless Shelter. Um, Mayor Nelson, do you want to speak to this? >> Uh, yes. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. Uh
the letter of support um was requested by the executive director, Mr. Ross Clemens has asked us to consider providing this letter of support. Um showing that the Panama City Rescue Mission is an intricral part of our community. Um the letter of support does
not require us um to make any type of financial contribution uh to the Panama City Rescue Mission, but as they are um working towards u appropriations or making approp appropriations request um it would be good from the state department to see that um the
partnerships or the endorsements and relationships that the Panama City Rescue Mission has within our community. Um we have signed um letters of endorsements before. Um, for example, we did this for uh North Bay Haven um Charter Academy where they were making
some uh applications for Bay Haven um Chart Academy as well as they were making some applications with uh with Triumphs and some other uh letters that we've um supported recently um with uh Bay County um commission. And so it's an
opportunity for us as a as a commission uh to show that we are um also supportive of the Panama City Rescue Mission. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, do we have a motion for this? >> Um, just had a question. Does this tie
us to anything like funding or anything like that? It's just a letter of support and that's it, right? >> Correct. Yeah, there's no um obligation. There's no obligation from us um with the letter of support. It's just a a
letter of support. >> Thank you. Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. I got a motion to approve from Commissioner War. I got a second from Commissioner Pero. Is there any
public commentary? I've got one in the back. So, currently you have a Panama City rescue mission, right? Do you all know how many that houses? Maybe the mayor can ask answer that question. How many
people, male and female, does the current rescue mission house? It happens because of the current Panama City Rescue Mission House male and female. >> Correct. >> Okay. Well, with the Panama City Rescue
Mission infrastructure, they do not men and men at the same place. So, women are housed at Bethl Village, >> correct? >> Um I believe that's on 11th Street, correct? And um they have uh men that are housed at the actual six uh six street locations where the men are being
housed right now. So I don't have the exact figure of how many men are being housed. I know that this would allow them to um house more individuals as well as provide a emergency shelter um in Bay County. From my understanding right now, we do not have an emergency shelter in Bay County. If you remember
over the past couple of years when there's been like the uh the fires that happened, they made some makeshift uh emergency shelters um throughout Bay County. For example, at Ad Harris uh or and at the uh Bay County Fairgrounds when there's been times of freezing, uh
they've used Ad Harris and the Big County Fairgrounds for that as well. So, right now, I don't believe there is an established emergency shelter um in Bay County. So, this would serve as a place for um those needing shelter as well as a place for those that are going into
the program to stay as well. >> Okay. Um my understanding is the current Panama City Rescue Mission, both men and females separate, already house 85 people. You're asking for an additional
43 for men and 10 for ladies. Now, what I don't understand is the numbers that you're asking for. Where are the children involved? If a house
burns down, don't you need to take your kids with you or you going to just put them in the car? And why is it 43 men and only 10 women when who is the primary caregiver for
children? Women. This is not an appropriate ask for this city commission. If you're building an emergency
facility, you need to come in here and tell everyone exactly what you're going to be doing. I've seen this before when they tried to ship
the bay count the rescue mission over to Gulf County and we said no thank you. So, if this is a way to grow your business and you're not being transparent
and you have people right now that aren't going to be getting their SNAP benefits that probably have houses but need extra help just to make it through this shutdown.
I can't even begin to imagine you taking on more. You're not taking care of the people that need to be taken care of that probably have housing. So instead of creating more situation,
why don't you think about what the community's doing to help these single moms that may not be getting SNAP program? >> Any further public commentary? >> Johnny Bashar, 81 Louisiana Avenue. Um,
I know this is a feel-good resolution and and it seems easy on top when you first look at it and I know there is a need for shelter for homeless people within our county. I spoke with some of the elect or at least one of the elected
officials of Panama City in the past week and the rescue mission has submitted the same letter pretty much to them for for them to approve or to support and the city of Panama City at that point had taken no action on that letter. I think for us to take action on
a letter like this ahead of the city that the the facility is located in would be premature. I think we should wait and see if Panama City supports this this action before Linhaven says, "Yeah, let's support something in Panama City that maybe Panama City doesn't
fully support in its current form." I just think we're ahead of the game on this and maybe we should wait and see what Panama City does first. Thank you. >> Any So, I stuck around for a minute. Um,
so you said that, uh, the mayor said that there's no money involved coming from the city. So, my question is, um, what funding is coming into the city? what funding is involved from grants, from federal programs that's involved
that would be be coming into Linhaven. Um, and I think that needs to be looked at. Is that the impetus behind this? And listen, everybody needs a place to go. You know, everybody needs a place to live and I think we all want to be compassionate to that, but there's issues and problems that come along, you
know, with with all those issues that happen when the people come into the community. So, uh, mayor, so do do you have any knowledge of, uh, grants or other federal monies that would be coming into the city of Glen Haven?
>> Can you relate that question to me again? >> Do you have knowledge of any grants or federal money or otherwise that would be coming into the city of Linhaven? We it's already been established that the city would not have to pay anything out, but is this a source of funding for the
city uh for other entities that you might be involved in? What what is coming into the city um federally? Do you have any knowledge of that? >> Um Mayor Pro Tim Peeles, could you relate that question to me?
I believe the >> uh I I believe the question is if if there's any federal funding coming to us or any type of grants coming to the city of Linhaven. I I'm not sure what the exact relation
is to this. I can answer the question of how this is being paid for. It's in the packet that they gave to us. It's the uh if this was to get approved, it would be uh from the state of Florida through the state of Florida legislature.
Um so the state of Florida would be covering it. >> Okay. Well, that's the state of Florida. So I mean anytime you talk about people who need benefits, if they need um like Christy referenced, if they need SNAP benefits, if they need housing, you know, etc., etc., people it it takes
money for these things to happen. And I'm assuming even the rescue mission gets some grants and federal money. So I'm wondering what does that mean for Linhaven if this is passed? Is there any money? Okay. And you talked about the state um how much is involved with that?
I apologize I didn't read that. Is there a figure? >> Yeah. The uh the total cost for what they're asking, not from us, from the state. Yeah. Um the total cost will be from the state 4,260,000 and then they have a capital fund
raising campaign that they're going to be doing themselves. I believe that they're trying to raise 1,420,000 of which they've already raised 433,000. >> Okay. And what is that for? What is that going to >> to build these the shelters that they're asking support for?
>> Okay. So you want to put shelters in Linhaven. Is that >> It has nothing to do with Lind Haven. >> Okay. >> It's just a letter of support. So this is supporting Panama City. >> This is just saying yeah at Pan >> or wherever they're built. >> Panama City. >> Okay.
>> Rescue Mission. >> Well, you don't know that. It could be built somewhere else. I'm going to have a rare moment of agreement with uh Johnny here. Um I think that if Panama City hasn't even looked at this and this is where the Mishkun is the mission is actually based. Maybe we should wait and see if they support this before Linhaven
votes on it. But you already have a first and a second. So maybe there needs to be a little more discussion. >> Is there any further public commentary, >> Mr. Langford? >> For the reasons already stated, I don't
think this needs to be approved. >> Any further public commentary? All right. Any further discussion from the commission >> based on the information um we get Darren commentary I'll resend my motion. >> I'll resend my second. >> So do we want to um possibly table this
then until we see what city of Panama City does? >> I wouldn't say table it. If they want to bring it back to us after Panama City approves it then fine. >> Yeah, I think that's that makes sense.
Do we need to vote on that officially? >> You're taking You're not tableabling it, but you're not taking action. >> I would make a motion to defer it for later then. >> Right. Okay. I'll make a motion to defer it until Panama City votes on it.
>> I'll second that motion. >> All right. Uh, we have motion on the table by Commissioner War to defer it until there's action from Panama City. Got a second from Commissioner Perno. Uh, any
further discussion from the commission? >> All right. Mr. Lightfoot, could you please call the role? >> Commissioner War? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Mayor Pro Peoples? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson? No.
>> All right. Motion to defer has passed. Uh moving on to item number 16. This is the discussion only and review of chapter 26 of the code of ordinances. Um Mayor Nelson, do you want to lead
this one off? Um just wanted us to uh bring back to our attention the various ordinances that we've gone through and now we've uh made it to chapter 26. I know uh city attorney um was doing some work on chapter 26. So I uh defer my comments to
her and we all can discussion. >> Thank you. you have in front of you some my markedup uh comments on some of the changes that I recommend you make to update this ordinance. Uh if you have any additional comments or reactions to
mine uh regarding revisions you'd like to see made, you can advise me now or you can send call me or send me an email with those revisions. So I would like to finalize this ordinance and get it updated for y'all. >> My big one was the right of entry. That was a big discussion uh when we went
over the IPMC. So like to make sure that mirrors what that says in there. >> Okay. >> And then um under section 26-33 subsection 2 and 4 um just had a question on whether that correlates with
IPMC. That's all I had. >> Okay. >> All right. Uh, I would like to say that I concur with the comments you made. I did like those comments. Um, one of the ones you made was to change the verbiage from just his on any role to his her.
And so there was a few that um, you pointed out like three or four. I found like one or two more. So maybe just a control F. >> Okay. >> Um, and then I did have some that stuck out to me in section 2630
subsection A. Um, it's talking about public property, but then it adds a section about private property. Um, let me pull that up real quick. So 2630 says, "No person shall place any refuse
in the street, alley, or other public place or upon any private property, whether owned by the person within the city unless the refuse shall be in proper containers for collection or under express approval granted by," and then you made a comment about changing that uh verbiage of the department, but
I say we remove the section about private property because this section is about public places and private property is not a public place. Um, and also, uh, if we're going to say something about not being able to put refuse on private property, we need to be much more
specific rather than just having a general statement saying you can't put refuse uh, on private property. Because based on the description, that could literally be if you have a piece of paper in your yard at all, you're now um breaking a code, which I think we've all
thrown a piece of trash in our trash can and accidentally fell out or a child's walking home from school and dropped a cup and the wind blew it into our yard, you know, things like that. So, I think we should take the either take completely strike the private property
thing or get more specific on how much refused. The next one is section is right below it. Um the subsection B it says unauthorized accumulation prohibited is declared a nuisance. Any unauthorized
accumulation of refuse on any premises is hereby declared to be a nuisance and is prohibited. I think we need to be more specific on how much an accumulation is because that lit from a literal
sense if you have two pieces of paper of garbage on your in your yard you're now breaking the code. So we either need to be more specific on a size of refuse or um something like that because it's not
spec for my liking it's not specific enough. And then uh on se section 26 32 subsection one >> same accumulation comment. >> Uh no I mean yeah but another thing that
talked about was the following conditions are prohibited in the city and declared nuisances. Any accumulation of rubbish, trash, junk and other abandoned materials, metals, lumber or other things. I would strike lumber just because um
or be more specific because some people may have a business where they stack lumber in their yard if they work construction or some people might use leftover lumber as firewood in the winter. Um, technically lumber is wood that has been made for building, but you
know, you know, I've I've used back when I was a kid and had a fireplace, we'd use leftover lumber for firewood if we didn't have money to buy pre-cut wood or whatever. So, um, and then in section 2632, it talks
about being excessive. Um I say we should put something to the effect of to say what excessive is. So maybe like um more than 25% of your uh your pvious property or something like that. That's
section uh 26-32 subsection two where it says any excessive accumulation of untended growth of weeds, undergrowth, stagnant water or other dead or living plant life upon a lot, tractor parcel. So, I don't know if you remember cuz I think Kevin
was here when we talked about it, but we did have we did change the ordinance to where you couldn't have it used to say you couldn't have any grass over 12 in and then we changed it to 50%. I think that we should follow and you put you pointed out because you you did it in
the ordinance and and updated it um for that. But I think if we're talking about weeds, maybe we put an actual amount because just saying an accumulation of that's subjected to not only the land owner but also the code enforcement officer because then you could have some
arguments. So, well, to me that's not an accumulation. What is an accumulation? You know, so if we have a measurement like 20, I don't know, 25% um 50%'s a lot. If you got if 50% of your yard is all weeds, I think I think uh you
probably get a call from your neighbor already. But um yeah, and my last question is on section 2632 subsection 14. It's talking, it's a very long um thing
talking about flea markets and stuff, but the way that this reads when it says um at the very bottom it says talks about rummage, garage, and yard sales or owned by the document of the premises for which a license has been obtained
from the city. And upon such premises, no prior similar activity has occurred within the past 12 successive calendar months. Am I reading that correctly? that you can only have one yard sale per year. >> Yes,
>> we should uh get rid of that. I mean, >> well, it also requires a business license and those two don't really make sense together, >> right? >> So, I think we need to modify that to kind of get an idea of what we want to do for that. Um, apparently my parents
were out of ordinance way back in the day when I was a kid because we probably had like three a year. So, um, when you have five kids, you tend to have a lot of yard sales. So, um, that's all I have if anybody else has anything.
>> All right. Thank you. I'll get those get this get this cleaned up and return to you for a first reading. >> Thank you. This you had a lot of excellent notes, so I appreciate it. Any further discussion from the commission on that one?
All right, we we'll move on to new business. Number 17, quasi judicial public hearing opens at 6:35. Discussion and possible approval of development order ice machine and parking project number 256
parcel ID number 09396- 0000-0000. >> Before I swear anyone in, will the commission give their Jennings disclosures? >> I've had none. I've >> had none. I've had none.
Mayor. All right. Will anyone who will be giving testimony in this hearing please stand and be sworn? Do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give tonight is the truth and nothing but the truth? Thank you. Thank you. Good evening everyone.
Um, first up on the agenda here is project 26 25506. This is for uh development order approval to construct a self-s serve ice machine with associated off- streetet parking on a point.14 acre vacant parcel of land.
This is located at 601 Ohio Avenue and this is at the corner of um Ohio and 6th Street. So um this designation is a commercial future land use designation.
It is in the CRA and access I know this was um a question that came up before was uh at other meetings was where was the access going to be and the access is going to be off of Sixth Street. And I do have this is the commercial land use
map and then this is the site plan. This shows the location of the ice machine towards the rear of the property. It will have five off- streetet parking spaces, then access onto six street. If you have
any other questions, please let me know. Have any questions? Is it covered? Will it have a roof? house. Uh, so I do have this building. I apologize. A little
difficult to see, but it is just a um you you see them out in other locations. They're pretty standard. >> There's one on 390, but it's it's under it's under like a little pole barn. It's got a little roof, so when people come up in inclement weather, they could
>> Exactly. I am not aware of this being covered at this time. It's hard to see in that in that photo, but on your screen there, you can see it's got a little awning over the >> area. >> The whole thing is not completely covered. >> Ju just where you can stand in the in the shade getting
>> I was just thinking about, you know, bad weather, people still get ice. So, you know, the one on 390 is pretty cool. I've been there several times. All right. If there's no any further questions from anybody else,
is uh is there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> I'll second per Jeep Ice. >> All right. Motion by Commissioner War, seconded by Commissioner Pero. Is there
any public commentary, Mr. Gray? Good evening. I will reluctantly take this next three minutes to talk about zoning. In April, we voted on a non-binding referendum for zoning, of which the city did absolutely nothing to
educate the public about. In previous elections, when there was charter amendments, there was minimal effort, but there was effort made by the city to share out that information. To my knowledge, there was maybe one other person in the city that had put any
effort into educating the public in a widespread manner regarding these non-binding referendums. And primarily that was for the libraries. The zoning referendum failed. So now the commission feeling politically bound by a non-binding resolution will not pursue
zoning. This development order will pass tonight because you have no tools to stop it. they get the right to develop their land. But this particular development is a perfect example of why Linhaven
doesn't just want zoning, but they need zoning even if the community doesn't realize it and they think it's going to cost too much. Um, this, if you look at this particular plan, it is coming off of Highway 77. I know the entrance is on a side road, but
that is a main dragway for people leaving town heading north. This is on the northbound side. There is no turn lane there. So any vehicles such as boat trailers, because this is very close to a boat launch, boat trailers that want
to stop and get ice will be, "Ooh, hey, there's a ice spot. Let me stop and get ice." There's nowhere for these boat trailers to park. They cannot pull into this development unless they get want to get stuck. Um, so there's nowhere for them to park, nor for them to pull through. They're going
to be blocking lanes of traffic coming off of a main highway. If ever there was an example for the the commission to step up and start pursuing zoning, it is now. This is an example. Uh we need to have things like highway and
commercial mobility overlays, dedicated e ingress and egress for trailers, especially within a zone that you would establish in proximity to the boat launch. Um, we need to have things like use ffit studies and reviews instead of just let everybody do whatever they
want. I know Florida is a free state if you agree with whatever that freedom entails. Sometimes people like it, sometimes people don't. But when it comes to what's best for the community as a whole, allowing everyone to develop whatever they want with minimal
ability to control responsible development in this community is not only irresponsible, it's asinine. So, I'm asking the commission after you approve this uh
development order tonight to add something to the agenda to discuss the pursuit and asking the city staff to act get actual cost estimates of what implementation of zoning will cost for the city so you can present it on the
next agenda. Thank you. >> Thank you. any f Okay. >> Hello, my name is Sean McNeil, McNeil, Carol Engineering, 475 Harrison Avenue, Penal City, Florida. Um, just didn't want to be presumptive in your deliberations that y'all are going to approve this. So, if you have any questions regarding this development
order, I'd be happy to address. So, assume not. My question was about the the awning in the front like access. >> I don't >> my my question was about an awning over
overhanging what the the the the actual where you pay and get the ice. >> Is there going to be a a roof covering it? >> No sir. Is what you shall >> open air? >> Yes sir. >> Any further questions? >> I have a question but not necessarily
for you. Do we still have the ice machine at Porter Park? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Um, uh, the gentleman mentioned, uh, boats would have a hard time egress. Would there be egress from is I guess Sixth Street, right?
>> Sixth Street. >> Sixth would six. Yeah. >> Is you would you be able to circle around in there? Um, >> uh, they have we have elongated parking uh, spaces 40t long. So they could they could uh >> they could park a boat and trailer
>> three point turn if there's uh vehicles in there parked next to them, but it there should be some maneuverability. Obviously uh trailering vehicles is more difficult to travel. Yes. >> I just figured we'd address it since you brought it up. So
>> thank you. You have a good night. >> Thank you. >> Uh Mr. Deweiler. I I'm actually going to echo Ryan's concerns. Um, you know, I've spoken about traffic before. Uh, so this one
has a single entrance exit. It does look like it actually does have a decently wide entrance. However, because of the placement of the ice machine on the looks like east side in the middle of the parking rather than maybe a corner or something like that, the only way for
a boat to truly get in there, cuz I have a 34 ft trailer, believe me, I know what it's like getting in, you'd actually have to pull forward and then back your trailer in if you would ever want to go in there. So, the commission to, I guess, stem any issues that this may have, would either be one to require an
in-n-out driveway, which would require an FDOT variance because you have to be 100 ft from an intersection corner, or uh put up no parking signs along sixth, which I know everybody hates. Um, but it would be necessary because I guarantee
you 80% of the people that are going to use this are either boats or contractors and both of them have trailers. Um, so to have parking on either side of that parking lot and not have an in and out where they can loop and only have a single entrance, you're you're going to have this problem. And Ryan is correct
about that. Um, it is something you could look into. It is something that you could request due to a safety factor given that you would have parking right off of a main highway and a state highway. Um, I don't know if it's worth looking into, but it is certainly something that the
commission should take into effect because that is who is going to be using it primarily, our trailered vehicles. That brings up something. Is there any further public commentary? Okay, that does bring up something that I was actually looking at today is I was
looking at the parking ordinances for the city and we don't really have the way that the ordinances are written is the way I read it and I'm sure um someone can correct me if I'm wrong that does this for a living uh police or or
fire. But I believe that it's written that the only way to to really cite someone legally for parking on the road um is if you have a no parking sign. So, we may want to consider either updating the ordinances to where you can't park
on the road or in this specific situation, put some no parking signs on Sixth Street so that we don't have a backup of long parked trailers um right there right off of 77.
I know we can't really put that as a condition for them, but just something for us to to talk about. All right, we have a motion on the four. Is there any discussion? Any more discussion from the commission? >> All right. Uh, Mr. Lightfoot, would you call the role?
>> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Commissioner Tinder, >> no. >> Mayor Proin Peoples, >> yes. Mayor Nelson there. Mayor. All right. She said we can record no vote.
Uh, I believe if my math is correct, that means the motion passed. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Uh, public hearing closes at 6:48. All right. We've got number 18, which is discussion and another quasi judicial
public hearing. Opens up at 6:48. Discussion and possible approval of development order ACE hardware expansion project number 25-7 partial ID 0926800000000. >> Again before I swear anyone in if the commission will give their Jennings
disclosures on this matter. >> I've had none. >> None had none. >> Had none. Mayor, your disclosure for this item. >> All person giving testimony on this hearing, please stand and be sworn. You
swear or affirm the testimony you'll give is the truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you. >> Thank you. This development order is in request to an addition on the existing ACE hardware located at 520 and 530 Ohio
Avenue. It also includes storm water and parking improvements at 527 Florida Avenue. Uh so it actually involves three parcels and it is this existing
block of area that is for Ace Hardware. Um this would allow for continuation of retail sales as well as the additional 16 spaces of parking and various storm water improvements on site. Uh this is
in the CRA development district as well uh which was reviewed by the CRA and and meets all standards. It also meets all standards with regards to the ULTC. If you have any further questions, please let me know.
>> Is this restricted parking just for Ace Hardware? the extra parking. >> This is for Ace Hardware and it it is not taking away from the existing parking that they have on their site as well. This is additional
parking. So the existing parking would remain undisturbed. The the portion along Florida is where you would see the improvements and I believe that is some existing gravel as it is now. It would just be improved upon.
>> Yeah, there is. So, you can just tell it's it's all broken up and falling apart. >> Yeah, I I know. But I just just thinking outside the box if Ace Hardware closes at 6, that could be public parking for Florida Avenue at some time or, you
know, if there was an agreement. So, we didn't see a parking lot sitting there with towway zones and no one could park if something's going on. Just a thought. It's a nuance. We could probably discuss.
>> We can discuss. >> Okay. >> I I couldn't hear what you were saying. What were you saying? >> I was just mumbling. >> The parking. So the additional parking the the business closes around 6:00 p.m.
So, you know, in a lot of businesses, I you see the signs that say towway zone don't got. So, if they if if we entered into some kind of agreement where after their their hours it was available for, you
know, a possible um I know that we've done street parties on Florida Avenue and done different stuff before and that would be a great addition to public parking, you know, off off hours of the business. So, I just thought I'd throw that in
there to say, "Hey, let's be good neighbors. >> That's something we can explore further. >> That would be awesome." >> And then I'm seeing uh storm water pond. So, that's good. That'll be further. >> Yes. So, they actually already have a
pond there, too, that they'll be modifying a little bit. >> Okay, cool. All right. Do we have any further questions? There a motion for this. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Miss Judy has it. >> I think Commissioner Tinder beat you this time. All right. So, I've got a motion to approve from Commissioner War and a second from Commissioner Tinder. Um, is there any public commentary?
All right. Any further discussion from the commission? Mr. Lightfoot, if you could call the role. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero? >> Yes. >> Mayor Proton Peoples? >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson?
>> Yes. >> All right. Motion passed. Uh, public hearing closes at 653. Moving on to discussion or item number 19, discussion and possible approval of the board of
adjustments decision to deny a variance of fence height in front yard of 118 Cash Mara Drive. This is essentially a re-haring. So, I want you to feel free to approve or deny. Um, it's not necessarily a
ratification of the board of of the planning board's decision, board of adjustments decision. You can make your own decision based on what you hear today. The burden is on the property owner requesting the variance to prove that he has met the your own criteria for approving a variance. So, it would
be appropriate to hear from him before you make any decisions. Um, but I'll leave it at that. And the way that this is written, if we were to all vote or this passed, this would be just confirming what the board
of adjustments decided. >> I want you to not worry about what the board of adjustment has decided. They have made their decision. He has appealed it. It is now before you to make a brand new decision. >> Okay? I'm I'm following. >> So if you make a motion to approve, that's going to be a motion to approve the variance. >> Okay? That's what I'm asking. Okay? >> That's what I would request from you.
Consider this a brand new hearing. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. I will say and I this not all parties may agree with me on this. I do believe this is a quasi judicial hearing because you have criteria in your code and you are making a decision as to whether or
not that criteria has been met based on the record that is before you. So if you want me to formally swear people in I am happy to do that. I if you do not that's fine. if you have Jennings disclosures to make that that gives more formality
uh to these hearings and eliminates any prejudice that you know might be implied if there were to be further challenges to this decision. So I would encourage you to make those Jennings disclosures at the very least and to make your decision based on the record before you. I will also note that your planning
director has submitted a robust um agenda package for you to consider that makes up um an initial and preliminary record for this hearing. >> I I would like to disclose um that I have communicated with the homeowner by
email and in person at the coffee with commissioners. Uh, I cannot I will say that I can't remember if I've responded via email or not. I think I may have. So, I'll say yes just to be safe. Um, but outside of that,
>> property owner, >> same thing. Responded to an email property owner and I know we talked about it one of these meetings and that was about it. >> I have responded to emails. I have driven by there on numerous occasions.
That's it. Do I need to like formally open up the public hearing? >> That would not be inappropriate. >> Okay. Public hearing for quasi judicial hearing opened at 656. >> Mayor Mayor Nelson, do you have a
genesis statement on on this item? >> Yes, sir. Okay. Will all persons who plan to give testimony tonight stand and be sworn? No, it does not require the public, but the applicant um and anyone else who will be speaking on your behalf, I would
request it. Just stand and be sworn. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give tonight is the truth and nothing but the truth? Thank you. Thank you. So uh per our uldc requirements uh fences, hedges, walls
cannot be more than 4 feet in height in the front yard and it we do allow for 8 ft inside and rear yards. Uh so that the property here at 118 Cashal Mara Drive uh was seeking to uh construct a fence
along the eastern side of their property which would go into the front yard. And as you can see from the packet material that we provided you, uh the applicant or the property owner wished to continue that fence and sought a variance that
went before the board of adjustments on September 18th. um that uh decision was denied for the for the variance request. So that is why this is before you tonight on appeal and I will certainly let the homeowner speak more to that.
But I did provide you with the packet of information that was provided to the BOA as well as our draft minutes and just a summary report um that I provided as well. So, I will answer any questions for you, but I certainly want the uh
homeowners to have the opportunity to speak on behalf of their request. >> I have a question. So, based on when the initial request for variance was made, has there been any major changes of
anything since the packet was submitted for the appeal or anything like that? Because if I remember properly, it was submitted in like September. So, there's a chance that something may have changed since then. >> We have not received any additional information other than the request for
the appeal. >> Okay. >> All right. Does anybody else have any questions for her? All right. Um, property owners >> Oh, go ahead. Is this just just the east
side 8 foot like symmetrically would it go across the back as well? I just didn't I just wondering cuz I know I mean >> right >> I know some some fences taper down you
know but I I understand I I I get the total reason why on the east side he wants 8 foot but I don't on the other side there's there's a house. I mean, would that is that going to be tapered down? It's not going to be eight foot all the way around, is it?
>> So, the application presented was to request relief of the 4ft height requirement to allow for 8 feet to match that which is require allowed inside and yard rear yards. They do have a fence.
So, the hearing at the VA focused on only the east side. Okay. So, we're talking about the east side, >> but the application does not specifically state only that side. They were requesting relief for the front yard. So, in theory, that could go
against the entire front yard along Cash Almar all the way to the house where essentially their fence connects now. So, in theory, it could go on both sides and along the front of the road. >> We'll let the homeowner explain his intentions then. I think the homeowner
would be willing to explain his intention if I had to speak on his behalf just uh but that is certainly something he he should discuss. >> I have a question also. Are you >> um I had a question. Uh would it be
against the law for them to put up 10 foot bushes in front of that area instead of a fence? >> So we >> and cover all the cameras that follow you around. So, we did mention that uh while you cannot do a full hedge wall, you can have plantings. We did make a
suggestion of uh when we spoke to the property owner about um possibly adding plantings and and staggering those. Uh we even mentioned uh if they wanted to continue with a 4ft high fence and then
add the plantings in addition, that is also an option. And then they also have the the right to seek this appeal. So, and then my other question is this. If they put up, let's say they put up hedges, let's say they put up a
4ft fence and the hedges or the whatever shrubbery >> goes to um 8 foot. Is there anything stopping the person on the other side of that fence from moving his camera up four more feet?
>> I can't speak to what another property owner can do. um that would involve any legal issues. So, he could or he can't. >> I would say that's a that's a legal question.
>> Okay. >> No, I don't believe he would be prohibited from relocating his camera. >> Just keep rising it up every time they built something there. I'm going to keep my mouth shut. Any other questions? >> Um,
any further questions for her? All right. Um, is Mr. Cruz is that you want to speak to this? I sent you all the email. Did you all get it? All were able to read it. Is there any questions you have about?
>> So, if I understand it correctly, from the side of the house all the way to where you want to build the fence, there's a 4ft drop. Is that about right? Yeah, there's about a 4ft drop um from the side of the house to where the fence is, the edge of our yard right there on
that side, the east side only. And this variance, I don't know if it's specified for the east side, but it is I'm specifying now. It is only for the east side. We're not trying to block our neighbors off. >> Highlighted where the fence is. >> Here's a 4ft drop and then from where
the house is to the driveway, it kind of comes down. So as you come further out the drop becomes I guess less pronounced. >> Okay. >> There is a drop there. >> Mayor Proim, I have another question if I may. >> Um do you have any plans
for what you will do if the camera just goes higher and higher? >> Yeah, I mean that's uh something separate other than this variance. You know, we've discussed some things, but right now where this fence is, it doesn't block the any up currently.
>> I know >> the one that's on the gate. That's a separate matter. >> And legally, I'm sorry, a one desk attorney. Is there anything keeping these folks from putting cameras looking out into this other man's property?
>> I'm not comfortable giving advice on that. I don't I don't know that they would be prevent prevented. They may have some liability depending on the direction of the camera. I I don't know. There's a question about the expectation of privacy if the cameras see what cannot be seen from the right ofway. Um maybe, but that's an issue between the
neighbors, not for the city to be involved in. >> Thanks. >> That's the biggest thing I have, you know, like to be considered is that the that's the rear of that property, which is a high density residential and we're in a low density residential lot. We're
at the rear of our lot. Our hap our house just happens to face south. So, our eastern side of our yard is the rear of our lot for our subdivision. So, there's nothing that stops the neighboring lot to put up an 8ft fence or want
along that line. >> So, there's no other houses in cashra that would um have a front yard facing it where they would need a 8ft fence. You see what I'm saying? in your in your neighborhood. Is there any other houses that butt up against that development
that falls under the same circumstance as you? >> Oh, okay. >> I just want you to know I read your email and I understood it, but that's your email, but what you said in the hearing today that you don't intend to
put this fence on the other side, only the east side, that's what I wanted to hear. Thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I mean whenever y'all vote on it, you know, if you want to specify that, that's fine. >> I guess I'm sorry. Go ahead. I guess the
way I'm looking at this right now, since there's a 4ft drop, you put up a 8ft fence. It's basically like putting a 4ft fence there. >> I like your thinking. >> That's kind of where I'm I'm kind of looking at this.
Do you want to put up a 12oot fence? >> You'll approve that. >> Yes, sure. >> Pretty sure in state of Florida, if you have a 12oot fence, it's only a matter of time before it gets knocked down from some wind.
Yeah. Every single time it gets windy, I say a little prayer. They don't have to replace my fence. >> Sounds like a song. I mean, do you guys disagree with what I'm saying that it's it's kind of like
you're putting up a 4ft fence with a 4ft drop off? >> I agree. And uh but I just don't know about, you know, fence heights and what sustainable, you know, wind load, all that kind of stuff like Commissioner uh
uh Peoples just said. >> Yeah. So, I guess really the only thing I wanted to add is reading the minutes of the board of adjustments. um they're meeting I agree with them that
based on our requirements that it doesn't technically meet all the requirements for a variance. That being said, we have the ability to grant an appeal. So that's really up to us. But I just want to give the point out that if
I was on the board of of the board, I probably would have voted the same way they did. um based on the documentation presented, >> but they do have the legal right to appeal, which they're doing. And um I absolutely have no problem with that. I
just want to say on record for those that are on the board that I hear you. I understand where you're coming from. >> They're doing their job right. >> Yeah. And you did your job. Um so yeah, >> I think it's a little bit different with us because we can grant it, but we
better have good justification for it. I guess I have a question for um the planning director, which is based on the type I guess the future land use map zoning of the other piece of property,
how high can their fence be? >> Um, so as I believe he mentioned, they can have an 8-ft fence along Mr. Cruz's property because that is their rear yard. Uh so because of how Cash Mara comes into the culdesac, Mr. Cruz is at
the end of that culde-sac so his sideyard faces the rear yard of that other property. And not that Mr. Cruz can't have an 8ft fence in his sideyard. The question became where where the front yard and
the sideyard stop and start. So, what the cruises are asking for is to continue that sideyard height into the front yard. >> Okay. Thank you. That kind of that kind of is important to me too is that the
property right next to them if they wanted to could do an 8ft fence, but just because of the way that the land >> I'm trying to remember what the code says. I don't have it memorized in my head, but I I want to say eight foot is the tallest you can put.
Is it okay? Thank you. >> Can I make one more comment? Um I I do go out there quite often. A matter of fact, I drove out there last weekend. There was another older couple out there. They've been following this
also. And um we were just chatting of course, but I had a lady in she had to been in her late 70s saying, "I am so tired of this camera following me walking my dog." another one that lives
on the opposite side of the street but right there I'm in her 50s. She's tired of it too. I just feel like this could help more than just this family. Unless he wants to keep building and by
God I keep building too if he does. Only suggestion I would make if this gets approved tonight is just make sure cuz based on that letter that we received in there, make sure that where you end the fence
>> that you end it in the right spot. Um that doesn't go over into the other property. You know what I'm saying? You know, all the way where it goes towards the street in the gate. >> Yeah. Or in the easement. Right. >> Easement. Yeah. >> Talking about
>> Yeah. I think city manager I think I was privy to the conversation max he can go >> but we I don't remember the setback that I'd be a miss boy your question but we had a great meeting with Mr. Cruz and his wife earlier this week >> or last week and we discussed the survey the easement the property corners
exactly where he needs to have his fence I think he's in agreement and all that. So >> yeah and if you have any doubts don't hesitate to call the city call Mr. Lightfoot. >> Yeah. Yeah. and and that way cuz the last thing I want to see happen is just make a
mistake and then the other person on the other side wants to make a big deal about it, you know. So I just >> where the fence currently sits is uh off of the >> Okay, perfect. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Any other questions?
>> I don't have any more. You guys anymore? >> Yeah, I I think we're ready. You're saying he's ready to vote? >> Oh, yeah. >> I'd like to make a motion that we approve um the height of 8 foot on the east side of fence um into the front
yard as well, >> which is technically his backyard. >> I would I would just add based on the 4ft drop >> based on the 4ft drop. >> I second that. Just for for Miss Rushing to clarify that you your motion was to
approve the 8-oot fence >> east side >> on the east side of the property, >> right? And isn't it on the east side that he wants to build the the fence, >> right? >> And and he wants to and the the variance was that he runs it from the back all
the way to the front and then >> based on the 4ft drop >> based on the Yeah. Okay. >> Also add that's based on the 4ft drop. >> I get that right. >> Yes.
>> All right. We have a motion to approve approve based on what I'm not going to repeat because it's very long. Um, seconded by Commissioner Tinder, I believe. All right. Is there any public commentary?
All right. I'm going to start with Mr. Walker and then I'll go rowby row. Excellent decision. Thank you for thinking of the citizen and his privacy. Um,
we were trained always with alternate. No matter what you do here, he's going to do something different. And that's what I'm worried about. But this is good. The board did not listen to any of that information that you just known. I
was there. I didn't like the way they treated citizens. You guys, ladies and gentlemen, have made it correct. >> All right. Uh, I believe Mr. Deweiler is next and then we'll continue down the
roads. >> Good evening. Um, I agree with the variance in its intent. Um, I think there's a couple ways to skin a cat to to kind of use that euphemism. Um, so the buildup, as best as I can tell based on the the
plan submitted, was likely because the house had to be raised um in order to meet flood code standards. I'm assuming that's why he has that slope on the edge of it. Um, I looked up flood plane maps for this area and they actually sit at elevation of 12 ft, which is the highest
in that area. Everything slopes off outward. Um, so technically the property which they're being videotaped from, uh, is at the standard elevation and his house was raised in order to do that. So, also allowing for
extra fill dirt to be brought in closer to that property line wouldn't actually cause a runoff issue because it wouldn't impede anyone's ability for that water to drain into any drainage systems. Um, so if it does become an
issue, a six-foot standard fence if that property depth was raised, um, could be another solution because it would provide a much higher fence. Uh, the other thing that I want to point out is you guys do have the authority, um, to pass safety standards for buildings um,
and and for general property to property things. Uh, for instance, uh, there's been cities in which I've lived in where it's illegal to have a spotlight, you know, those safety spotlights and stuff like that, shining directly into someone's backyard, um, causes a
nuisance. uh you could take up the type of ordinance that would allow that if a property owner believes that a camera is largely more focused on their property than the property in which it is
supposed to be keeping safe. Um that could be brought as an appeal in front of the board or it could just be made outright uh you know a safety ordinance uh and that would give you protections to be able to in the future deal with these types of issues. So that's just
two suggestions I have. >> Thank you. Anyone? Okay, Mr. Langford. >> Yeah, it's a good process. I mean, we got denied essentially and appealed it. I think this is the process is working great. Um, I would ask I heard some kind
of some hypothetical, well, if this happens, then that happens. I I would kind of discourage um you guys making a decision based on hypotheticals of of what could or or may not happen after this fence is built. Um but I think it it it really brings up two things that
need to be considered. Um number one is is with our with our current code, the way it's written. Um and I bring this up because there's there's a similar situation over on um not with the cameras, but the fence, the sideyard and backyard. Um, so our code obviously, you
know, when it's in the front of your house, right, it's got to be four feet. But over on 12th Street, 12th in Arkansas, okay, they just built a new house over there. The house is is fac It's on a corner lot. It's facing 12th Street. All right. On Arkansas, if you
turn down Arkansas, the first house on the left there is facing Arkansas. Okay. So the house on 12th Street that's facing 12th Street, their rear yard is basically Arkansas's a portion of it is Arkansas's sideyard. So you would you
would essentially have the same the same issue. Um so where I'm going with that is is possibly looking at the code to say to to define that someone's sideyard, if it's their neighbors or the the adjacent property's rear yard, there
may be some alleviation from that. So we don't have the same issue going forward. The other is the voyerism stuff concerns or whatever. That's that's a separate thing that you know could be addressed at a at a different item. Thank you. >> Thanks. Uh anyone on the next row?
>> All right, ma'am. I wasn't going to come and talk, but I feel like I need to. I represent the property next to them. Finally, I want to speak because this is getting a little out of hand. Um, as far as the height of the fence, I really don't care
if it's 8 ft. We really don't have a problem with that at all. Um my issue was their initial intent along with the HOA president was to go continue that fence all the way through blocking our
access which we have a small access through there and it would be encroaching into the utility easement of city of Linhaven. That was my issue because when we originally put our gate it was in the utility easement and we were asked hey this is wrong you need to
push it back. We had it surveyed and we said, "Yeah, we were 8 in." So, we actually moved it back 12 inches to get out of the easement because we can't put anything in there, nor should they be able to. So, that was my main issue is you want 8 ft. Sure. But do not put it in the utility easement because that's
you're not supposed to do that. If you guys have to do work on the utility easement, you can't have fences, gates, anything encroaching. Um, so that was my issue. The only other thing is I'm I'm getting a little tired of the camera issue. Um, and I know Miss Tinder has
talked about it repeatedly. Um, the thing that's interesting is everybody wants to kind of just put this bullseye on our camera, but what's interesting is our camera is facing at an angle that if anybody were to sneak around and get on our property, cuz it is vacant. We've had people four-wheelers, people going
with their uh golf carts. We've had people take fishing poles and just sit there and decide, hey, I want to put some lawn chairs and fish on our property. So, it's just to keep our people off our property, which I think anybody else had property, whether there's house or not, they don't want people trespassing on it. So, that's our main goal because we have caught people
coming in and out of there. And people like to utilize it walking through the Bailey Bridge, coming around Cash Almera, crossing into our property, and going down Grassy Point because it it's a little bit more of a path for them to to walk. So, that's our main point of why we have the camera. Um, as far as
where the camera is positioned, it's positioned towards a public street. The applicant has two cameras on his house pointing towards what? The same street. The neighbor next to him, well, he's got cameras doing the same thing. There's another vacant lot on the other
side of that storm water vacant lot now that has a camera in the front of their property facing the same road and so on so forth. Everybody there has cameras facing the same public road. We're not watching people for voyerism. It's just to keep people off our property. The
applicant also has, because we talk about expectation of privacy, he has two cameras on the side of his house that actually go over his fence line, peeking into the side of our rear property. That's over their fence line. Kind of invasion of our privacy if you think
about it. Are we going to argue with him about it? No, I don't care. But the point is is that this has been misconstrued so much and I wanted to come here to speak about it because no one's doing anything wrong. We're just watching our property. Eventually when that property gets sold,
>> then we'll be done with it. Thank you. >> Mayor Prom, can I say something? Sure. >> I just really want to thank you for coming out. number one, um, you have a whole different attitude and I understand everything you just said and it makes perfect sense and I appreciate
it >> and honestly because I know you've talked about it and nobody else really talked about that much. I would have really loved to have sat down and have a conversation with you. >> I would love it anytime >> because I feel like it's been so one-sided and I really didn't want to get into it because it just feels very
high school. It's like enough. >> Yeah. >> But I wanted to get my point across again. I don't care what they do with their fence. just don't encroach on the utility because that's wrong. And I like I said, I just wanted to talk about the the camera because everybody's got cameras on that street and if something happens on that street that we catch
somebody breaking into their house, we'll be the first ones to tell you, hey, we got camera of it. >> There you go. >> Help them out. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Hey, Mr. Lifeoot, then that was originally the problem originally. It was too far and then they understood they had to pull it back. >> Yes, sir. And so that was uh clarified
by Mr. Cruz too in one of his emails. the the original contractor that they hired to put the fence up. I guess the HOA had also hired. So when he set Mr. and Mrs. Cruz's post, they also set the post for the HOA around the easement. And that is not part of what you are approving tonight or discussing. Yes,
sir. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Further public commentary. Do we got any more on this side? I will start the first row that has a hand up on this side. So Mr. Great. >> Um, I find it pretty interesting that the property abudding this one is the
one that I last spoke about zoning on. It was a multifamily that zoning could have prevented. Um, I'm not against the property because you guys approved it because you had to. Good for them for getting it in before we get zoning, but at this point it
might be two or three more years. But I want to talk a little bit more about the process of getting a a variance requested. Um I helped my neighbor in 2021 get a variance to build a garage. Um I was the neighboring property. He
was encroaching on my um setback basically. Um Commissioner War will remember this. He was on that board. Um a lot of times the board members are not very familiar with the specific scenarios. In my case, Mr. War,
Commissioner War now, was the only one that was aware of the space we were talking about. I read through all the minutes in this last um meeting for this variance and uh it's kind of clear to me that the variance findings list that
runs from A to I, it gets followed in a in a very odd way. Um number one, all of these variance requests are supposed to stand alone. There's actually a part in there that talks about setting a precedent um for the rest of the city. I
think that should just be thrown out because if everyone stands alone, then how are you setting a precedent? You should never be considering a past variance request when considering a future variance request. Um, but when you look at these variance findings,
specifically items B, C, D, and E, were all missed in my opinion of why the board could have given him his variance, and we didn't even need to be here tonight. Um, there are special conditions that are peculiar to the land. There is special conditions and
circumstances that do not result from his own actions. um granting the variance does not uh give any special privileges and the literal interpretation of the provisions of the ULDC is depriving them of their
rights. I mean at what point do we just give a little bit more guidance as a commission to our boards to help them kind of look at things in a more logical and less literal manner? I mean and also the issue of the security camera is honestly
irrelevant. You don't even need to factor that in here. Just look at the land and the slope and all that stuff. And you you guys are coming to the right conclusion tonight. It just pains me that we have to get this far to to do it. Um I appreciate you talking about
respecting the board. I think maybe this is one of those times where we uh offer the volunteer members of our boards more advice. >> Thank you. Anybody else on this side that would like to speak? All right, sir.
My name is Bill Flynn. I lived on cashmere. Also, I'm the HOA president and want to let you know all the individual members of the HOA are in favor of this fence.
Number two is also utility easement will go underground and the fence can be easily be moved whenever sewage and water and stuff needs to be run. So it's not it's not
going to obstruct anything. And thirdly, HOA may request the fence be extended at some point to separate us in the lowdensity residential from the high density residential neighborhood because
they're incompatible in a lot of ways. So, you know, there there are reasons for the fence and um and if it if it does come to that, I
we'll have our personal attorney or HOA attorney put together a legal way that is much more precise in what we're requesting. >> Thank you. Any further public commentary?
Any further discussion from the commission? >> All right, we have a motion on the floor. Mr. Light, could you call the role? >> Mr. Pero, >> yes. >> Mr. Tinder, >> yes. >> Mr. Warick, >> yes. >> Mayor Pro Tim Peoples, >> yes.
>> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. >> Motion passed. Public hearing closed at 7:28. I would like to request a fivem minute recess. They'll be back at
uh 7:34. [Music] to item number 20. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 20251048 7 to purchase one Chevrolet 3500 and two Ford Mavericks for the water department
as approved in the fiscal 20 fiscal year 26 budget. Yes, sir. A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving the purchase of three trucks for the water department from Allen J. Automotive Management Incorporated in the total amount of $122,425.
All three of these trucks are in the water budget as as annual replacements. >> All right. So, just to reiterate, this is was we've already looked at this when we were going through the budget, right? >> Sure. Um, is there a motion for this?
>> I'll motion to approve, but I'd also like to just make a statement that possibly in the future, I know our last couple meetings, we've had a lot of agenda items that were that were already covered in the budget. Can we move them to the consent agenda, please? Yes, sir.
We were just trying to ease the commission into the new way of doing things. So, absolutely. If everyone's good with that, we can start putting budgeted purchases on the consent agenda. >> Yeah. As long as we leave the item number four, we make sure and ask if we want to add or remove.
>> Yes, sir. >> And with that, I motion to approve. >> Second. >> All right. I got a motion to approve by Commissioner Perno and a second from Commissioner War. Is there any public commentary?
U Mr. Finches first and then I'll get Stepwell next. >> These all new trucks. >> Yes, sir. >> They're brand new. The 3500. That's a DY. >> Yes, sir. >> DY for the water department. >> Yes, sir. >> They read a meter out of that or what do they do with it?
>> No, sir. This is for the uh the crew that goes out and replaces leaks and hauls equipment. Uh so they need the dy for hauling their mini excavator and it's replacing a dy. I just had two questions. I assume that these were uh done through bid. So >> no sir, it's through source well.
>> Okay. So how does that process work? >> Source well the bids are procured through the source well company and then available through state and federal purchasing guidelines. >> Okay. So this company is out of Sebring. Is there any transportation costs or are these brought to a Ford dealership? >> It's all part of the deal.
>> Okay. So, if something was procured locally, would it be cheaper or is this the true soul source lowest bid possible? >> No, sir. You cannot go buy a $3500 in the amount of $65,000 at any local dealership. >> Okay. Question,
any further public commentary? Any further discussion by the commission? >> So, I know I talked to Mr. Lightfoot about this source. Well, it's a national it's a national thing where they do like
a contract for all these different equipments and by doing it this way, they're able to do it cheaper than >> Yes. Or they do vehicles, equipment, services, clothing. I mean, you name it. >> It's like a >> That was all I had.
>> All right. Any further discussion? Anybody else? Mr. Lightfoot, could you call the role? >> Commissioner Po, >> yes. >> Commissioner War, >> yes. Commissioner Tinder. >> Yes. >> Mayor Pro Tim Peebles. >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes.
>> All right. Motion passed. Moving on to number 21. Discussion and possible approval of resolution 2025-10-488 to purchase a valve exercising machine and trailer for the water department as
approved in the fiscal year 26 budget. a resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving the purchase of valve exercising machine and trailer from Duvall Ford in the amount of $110,440. This was also brought up in our um goal
session and strategic plan. We are required by uh D to have a valve exercising program that was also part of the additional two people we hired or added to the budget for fiscal year 26 in the water department. We have in the past borrowed a valve machine from the
city of Panama City and I believe Bay County as well in the past. This is a trailer that has a hydraulic turner on it. And so you can go and you can clean out the valve boxes uh for like 8 in 10in sewer manes uh water manes any any
type of line underground. And you can exercise the valve to ensure you can turn it off in time of emergency if you have a water man break and need to shut shut a valve off. All right. Is there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Second.
>> All right. Motion by Commissioner War, second by Commissioner Pero. Is there any public commentary? No public commentary. Is there any further discussion from the commission? >> Uh, quick question. This this this valve turn off machine. Have we ever had
one before? >> Not to my knowledge. No, sir. Not in the 5 years I've been >> Was that always a push button thing if that happened? You had to get another company out to turn the valve off if you had a water man break >> to mine out to fix a water man break or to turn a valve? >> Well, you you use this when you when a
water man breaks. Correct. >> Yeah, correct. So, we've never had one to go out and and use. We've borrowed one from Panama City and I believe Bay County since I've been here and I do not know of the city ever owning one in the past. Okay.
Any further questions? All right, if you could call the role. >> Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perno, >> yes. >> Mr. Tinder, >> yes. >> Mayor Pro Pebbles, >> yes. >> Mayor Nelson, >> yes. >> Motion passed. Moving on to item number
22. Discussion and possible approval for resolution 2025-10-489 approving Yates Plumbing and Utility Services to be utilized as licensed wastewater operator staffing at $60 per hour with a 12.5% admin fee.
>> A resolution of the city of Linhaven, Florida, approving an agreement with Gates Plumbing for services relating to operation of the city's wastewater treatment plant. As discussed previously, we have a staff shortage at the wastewater plant. We are required to staff at 16 hours a day,
seven days a week. We have one full-time city employee right now. We have one part-time city employee and then the rest we utilize with Yates Plumbing. All right. Uh Mr. Finch, I'll get to you once we have if we do a motion. Um, is
there a motion for this? >> Motion to approve. >> Can I ask a question? Pro Mayor Pro. Um, is this something that we have? We put this out for a wide search. >> We have reached out to Florida Rule
Water who we are a member of. They sent us a list of every licensed operator company in the panhandle. We reached out to to Yates, US Water, two other companies that did not quote because they were getting out of the business. So, we received two different quotes
from US Water, one just under 60,000 and one around 27,000. That was for the partial services like Yates is doing. And we reached out to Mr. Yates who owns Yates Plumbing out of Crest View. He has licensed wastewater operators on staff. They take care of
little package plants for DOT. He gave us a proposal of $60 an hour with a 12.5% admin fee. >> And I know we discussed this already. What does that come out to a year? >> It depends on the number of hours that we need them. Right now, we have one full-time employee and one part-time.
And then whatever is left, we need the Yates company to to fill in. >> How much do we have budgeted for this already? >> $52,000. >> Okay. >> I know uh when I had my sit down, Mr. Light foot. We we talked pretty
extensively about this that I don't know what the right answer is. I don't know if it's we need some type of incentive program to get more operators, pay for their schooling, something. >> Um, so we do pay for the schooling for the trainees. However, we have hired
probably four or five in the past two years. They either do not complete the schooling, we do not get the money back, or they leave at right about the time they're going to go get a license, and they can go to Tampa and make $35 to $45 an hour. >> I don't know if we can put like terms in
it, but if you accept this, you have to work x amount of time so we can get our money back or something. I know we had that discussion. I'm just >> And and this course, >> people know, we've had this discussion and we're looking at different options. So this course here also is is a few
hundred dollars. It's not like some of our college tuition that is several thousand. So it's not a huge sacrifice for the few hundred, but it's very difficult to get people to stay into this job. >> Why do you think that is? I mean, >> so ma'am, if you can go
>> stinks. I know. as a as a wastewater operator trainee fresh out of high school. You start out as a traininee at 18 20 bucks an hour working in a sewer plant or do you want to go work make 18 20 bucks an hour playing with AI? I mean, it's not a very attractant to to
the younger generation. >> Not to mention you can get certified and go make double that somewhere else. >> There there are six wastewater plants in Bay County. Of course, ours is the most outdated. It doesn't it's not fully autom automatic like other plants. It
does you don't sit in there and watch 100% on SCADA. You actually get out and have to go take samples. You have to go take measurements. You have to walk around and check things. Commissioner Wart joined me for a Sunday um when I was working up there. It's not where you just sit around and watch a computer
like you do at a lot of wastewater plants. >> Well, I will second the motion for further discussion. All right, we've got a motion to approve by Commissioner Warick, a second by uh
Commissioner Pero. Um Mr. Finch actually had his name on the list for this item, so I'll give you priority to speak if you'd like to speak on this item. >> I was looking through this the agenda and and run up on this and it says
exhibit A. Look at exhibit A. I can't find exhibit A. How can y'all make a decision on this without the exhibit? Says uh substantially the form attached in exhibit A and presented to the commission today. That's what this says.
And also read that this guy these people have been working for several months with the city. Several months. But it don't say how many hours you going to work or whatever. So Mr. live foot said 5 days a week and
then he said seven days a week 16 hours a day it don't say there's a limit on it so I was just adding it up if it's 16 hours a day for seven days it's uh $2700 a week that you could pay the operator
you know but I don't you said you've been advertising and you can't get anybody to look for the job if you told them how much you were going to pay >> so we don't Hey, >> well, I've I've not seen any bills. I've been up here quite a bit, but
they've been working several months at the plant. >> Yes, sir. >> I had seen where they paid over 35,000. How many times have >> So, we haven't That's why we haven't. That's why it's coming to the to the commission now. So, prior to July 22nd, I was having to work over there 3 to 5 days a week on the night shift, on the
weekends. Because of changes at the city, we do not have me available to go over there and fill shifts. So, we're hiring a company to help out. So, because it's going to get over 35,000, which is against our procurement policy, we're bringing it to the commission to approve. We have had them over there for
several months. Yes, sir. >> For several months. How much money you think you've spent with them so far? >> I can have >> $48,870. >> How much? >> $48,870. See, this this is an open-ended deal here that you had an agenda and it said
$60 an hour or 12.5%. When you work the overtime, is it 9750 an hour? >> No, sir. They do not get overtime. Their rate is set at $60 an hour to Yates Plumbing. The 12.5% admin fee is their overhead cost at the end of the month.
So, what if their invoice for the month is $1,000? They add 12.5% onto that for the admin fee. Well, your your plumbing service, you know, it says 16 hours a day, seven days a week. >> So, they're advertised.
>> No, sir. We we did that to try to fill in the commission. So, the car states the Florida Department of Environmental Protection requires the city to staff its wastewater treatment facility 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. We're not saying that Yates is staffing it 16
hours a day, 7 days a week. We are required to staff it 16 hours a day. this bid reads is is what you believe this bid to be is is that you know and it says right here it's got the contract to start in October of 25. There's only
two days left in October. So I mean y'all had this figured out before now and then it says that that you 16 hours a day, seven days a week. That is what the resolution states to.
>> Well, I mean, that's why I was up there. If you was going to pay somebody 127,000, no, $196,000 a year. I was concerned. And on the deal here, it says advertise date. It don't say. And it
says a newspaper. Affected parties notified of the meeting. Not required, it says. So, I says they can't be alter alternatives. none listed. >> That is the standard car. If you go back to the other items, too, every agenda
item has the same page. It still has advertise, date, newspaper. That's on every agenda item. >> You know, at 50 years, you know, you going to have this problem. They they're not going to quit using a bathroom. So, this plumbing company is gathering up some people to sub out to y'all. They
don't have a sewer plant. We got a sewer plant, and we damn sure need a continuity plan. we need some apprentices or whatever and you wouldn't have to be down there. I talked to Mr. Kid. Well, I called him up. I said, "What in the hell is going on? We've not done this in 50 years. We ain't had to
have a sub down there." He said, "Well, I tried to bring this up past management. We get an argument. I'm no longer working there." Well, you need to Somebody's going to want a career in the city of Little Haven. They could get in the sewer plant. Y'all could pay them
some money. Send them to school. They going to have a job because not they going to use the bathroom. You can believe that. And so you you gonna have to have some. I got some apprentices with my mechanics in case when they get older they quit. I got a plan B. What is our plan B? We need to have the city
employees do this. They've done it for 50 years cuz this guy's getting $60 an hour and he's paying somebody 10 or 20. >> All right. Thank you. >> Or 40 or whatever. But you can hire somebody. You can go to the city of
Panama City and say, "Hey, we paying 50 bucks an hour." You know what they going to do? They'll be over here tomorrow. >> We have We have advertised the position for a number of months. We've increased the pay a number of times. >> But where y'all advertised at? I had seen it advertised anywhere for employee
for wastewater treatment. >> That's the thing. >> It's on the city's website. >> On the city website. >> Yes, sir. >> Why wouldn't you put it in the paper or indeed people's hundred job? It is advertised in all of those locations. >> Is it three minutes?
>> Well, I'm I really appreciate it's not a 40hour, 60 hour week like this reads. You know, >> Mr. Finch >> 16 an hour. >> Three. That's your three minutes. >> What do you think the annual cost is going to be? I know we budgeted for a certain amount with the contract. What
would an average year be? Well, if we go over $52,000, we have to come to you all for a budget resolution. >> Okay. And we're and we're at 48 or that was last year. >> The 48 was in fiscal 25 >> cumulative.
>> The 48,000 was spent in fiscal 25. >> So the 52 is what's budgeted in fis fiscal 26. >> And we're we're going to fall inside of that, you think? Sure. Just just saying >> it depends. If if our full-time operator
decides to leave tomorrow, then we're going to need more hours. That's why it's not >> I do believe talking about this publicly is going to bring awareness. We might we might find somebody or incentivize somebody within our city to to to on take this on hopefully. But I know it's
an industry it's an industry stigmata right now, right? So with the with the conversations of potentially becoming a wholesale customer of Bay County, how are we going to incentivize people to come here to work as the wastewater plant if the potential is it goes away?
>> Right. H how about that rate steady? Is it? >> Yes sir. The county is working with RF Telus on the task order. We hope to bring that to the commission hopefully at either the next meeting or the meeting in December for the approval of the task order >> and and
our friends at the county have nobody to help us out with this or anything like that. They have the same problem. >> They are short-handed at their at their plants as well. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um, I guess let's let's start with the question of uh, you know, since we're
talking about pay, what is the current rate put out there for this position? >> For a license, I believe it's anywhere from 24 to $30 an hour depending on the lensure. >> There's three license levels, C, B, and A, and they're at different levels. We
did studies on what other cities uh, when we went through the raise the increase over the summer. We've gone through numerous negotiations that ended in failure, either acceptance and then failure. Sometimes
operator one offer >> their bids on another. Yeah. >> Sorry. Um, this is one of those fields that, um, I refer to as a unicorn. They're very
highly specialized. It's not desired by the generation of today. And to get licensed takes more than one year. So even if we were to hire a trainee, they would not be ready to step into the position that would fit the state
requirements. in excess of a year and that's assuming that they can pass some arduous tests. >> Sure. Oh, and and that's understandable and you know, no different than being an engineer or a police officer or something like that. I mean, there's there's there's a lot that goes into it.
Um, I guess looking at it from a numbers standpoint. If we're offering 22 to 25 benefits, that goes up to about 35 with time off and and everything else for about an hourly rate. And you're looking at paying 6715
for a contract. Now, county ran into the same issue with planning. Um I know because I I know the the people who work down in the planning office. They ran for almost a year and a half paying I think something crazy like $79 an hour for a planner to to work
that position. So if you guys are are going to pay this fee and you only have $52,000 in the budget that is about 19.5 weeks worth of operating budget before you have to come back for continuing resolution. If you pay 16 or so was it 6715, you're going to operate at 139,700
and change on the year plus the 12.5% for the administration fees. You're looking at 155,000 and change on the year for this. It seems a little silly not to up the rate. If you can find someone with 10
years experience and pay them 30 32 an hour just to get over the hump and then put two people into college with maybe a or whatever the the certification is with a three-year expectancy to work here and get us over this hump until we can do something. It's going to be far
cheaper, especially if we can't find anyone now and we've been looking for 6 months to a year. Are you going to run at 155,000 a year if this contract's up in a year and they rebid and it goes up to 175,000 a year? I mean, how long are you going to because we we obviously
can't. As Mr. Lightoot said, we cannot run this plant without it. And if without it, this city shuts down. I mean, literally, you won't be able to use the bathroom in this city without it. You you this is one of the few things where you are handcuffed.
Sometimes >> you'll have to pay the present person more to >> Yeah. >> bring somebody in at 32. So >> you the the argument was made that you know you're never going to find somebody because they're always going to go down to Tampa and St. Pete and Orlando and everyone everything else for 30 to $40
an hour. Well compete with them. If if this is one of those critical positions, find yourself someone to compete until you can get past it. just my thoughts >> that the >> just to piggyback on that. Oh, go ahead,
Mr. Gray. Okay. Uh, so just to point out in the contract, it's for a one-year contract. Second, don't we have it in our budget to do a rate study >> what cover this? >> Yes, this will definitely be a part of that. >> Yeah. So, this will be this contract's
only for one year, >> and we're going to do a rate study to figure out what we actually need to be paying them. So, that would meet the uh figuring out what we need to raise it to to keep somebody. We also need to factor in that if we have a new sewage plant and how that agreement is with the
county, we may not be employing someone to do this anyways in the future depending on how that agreement happens. So, >> we'll still be pumping it. I I do want to add that we did two or three mailings
to every licensed uh advanced wastewater um plant operator in the state. Everyone that had a C, B, or A license. And we got zero zero response
from two or three mailings. >> Um >> direct to the operators. Can I can I ask um um if I may, can I ask Commissioner War um to uh to just entertain
um in his motion that we that we put a cap or not a cap or an amount on when we bring it to the commission, not when it's at 52 grand and say we got to, you know, up the resolution. Let's look at it like at a at a different uh dollar
amount. Maybe like 40 grand. It's it's it's already it's already there for a lesser amount. But when it gets to a certain amount, I'd like to know at what point of the year do we max out? You know what I mean? Are we talking about this lasting a whole year? It's a
one-year contract, but you know, we're throwing numbers around. Some people are saying higher numbers, lower numbers. So on based on our budgeted amount, I'd like to know when we're like maybe three4s of the way, you know, so you know, we got a gauge as to as to whether
this thing's going to be the right number to go the whole year. We can word it however you want. I mean, it will likely be in almost every warrant list once a month because we will be paying a monthly invoice. I don't have the staff summary sheet in
front of me, but it's if I remember right, it already has it for the fiscal year 26, right? It's based on fiscal year 26 budget. >> Yes, sir. >> So, that is the max, right? What's in the 50 fiscal year >> 26? We have $52,000 in fiscal year 26 budget.
>> If you want me to add it, I'll add it. >> If we go over that, we have to come back before the commission for a resolution anyway. >> Right. So there's already max there at 52,000, but if you want me to add it, I'll add it. I add it with a cap of 52,000.
>> That's perfect. Thank you. >> So, do we need to second him change him modifying his agenda? >> I made the second. So, >> okay. >> All right. So, we got the motion added the 52,000 cap with a second. Um, Mr. Gray.
>> All right. Somewhere along the line as a society, we uh stripped out people from doing dirty jobs. Micro show. You guys know that >> it's not appealing like Chris said. Um I have a question. Maybe Kiki or um
still. Okay. Maybe one of you guys can tell me. What is the fully burdened cost of the person that you would employ for this position? I mean that you're talking health benefits everything. If you could give it to me in the hourly rate,
>> the hourly get all of those. >> I mean, if you do annual, I'll just divide it by 80 and by 26. >> Well, she has >> um while she looks that up, I just want to point out that, you know, Chris has made some very valid points. How are you going to appeal somebody to come in
here? Commissioner War made valid points. How are you going to uh maybe even if you incentivize somebody, how are you going to make sure they stay? I deal with this daily in my job. I hire subcontractors for my company that I work for because we can't staff positions. We don't have the specialty
whatever. I deal in fully burdened rates. That's why I asked what did we come up with? >> Our our current employee who is a class C, I believe >> B. He's an A. He's class ammed.
Our current employee fully burdened with all medical benefits and taxes $97,840 a year. >> Off everything else. >> Everything. It's everything. [Music]
>> Right. So I got $4663. Not far off from 60. A substantial amount. Yes. But that's the cost of outsourcing sometimes. And sometimes you can't help but outsource. So really what we're in is a situation where we passed
this budget, we made cuts. We're in a position where we're not going to be able to hire somebody. So now it's start time to start looking at shifting and figure out what you can cut down on again so you can make sure that my toilet flushes. Cuz you know, if my toilet doesn't flush, I'll be up here
banging the door down. I'll probably take whatever I drop and bring it to your guys' doorsteps. Set it on fire in a bag. You know, Billy Madison movie. Um, point being, you got to outsource sometimes. Clearly, we can't hire
in-house. So, we need to get serious about looking at the budget a little further. Last question I have is um uh city manager uh did you pre- talk about this issue with all of the commission at your sitdowns and how often does each
commissioner attended a one-on-one sit down with you? >> And yes, I believe they've all been informed of this issue. I think actually all of them have came to the wastewater plant with me at some point. >> Okay. And do all of them attend a routine sitdown with you one-on-one?
>> No, sir. Who does not? Okay. Why? Why, Commissioner? When I got a minute and 17 seconds left, so why can't we all hear that? Why can't we all hear why our
representative doesn't want to have a sit down with the employee that is working for us through you guys? Okay. Okay. Can you accommodate by going to her location? >> All right. I'd like to see that happen.
If if a commissioner has a health thing that they need to have a accommodation, I'm pretty sure we can make that accommodation. There's no reason that communication in this city should be this damn difficult. All right. Any further public commentary?
>> I just wanted to mention one thing. Um, Mr. Finch mentioned overtime. You're contracting with a company, not with a individual. So, I would make the assumption that if the person they've got staffing works eight hours, they will staff somebody else for the next
period and there'll be no overtime due. So overtime is a moot point on this. So don't factor that into your numbers. I just don't see overtime being and you can correct me if I'm wrong. >> No, sir. But but when you're contracting with the company, they're providing the personnel. They they manage their end of
it. Thank you. >> I'd like to also add if they call in, they're not calling in to us. They're calling in to Mr. Yates, who is then responsible for finding another operator to cover that shift, so we don't have to scramble around and and cover the shift.
All right. So, since we have a new motion, I'll allow three more minutes. >> Since we have a second motion that's been modified, I'll allow three more minutes. U exhibit A. Where's the exhibit A?
>> The exhibit A is the service agreement service. >> It says it's attached, but it's not. >> It's this these these people are working out of Fort Walton, Florida. Do they get driving time? >> No, sir. They get paid $60 an hour to be at the plant plus a 12.5% admin fee and
that is it. Whatever that is being approved right here. >> The only reason I'm asking that is you didn't attach exhibit A with this damn thing. >> Yes, sir. It's in the packet. >> It's it's in the packet. If you download it from >> Oh, it's not in this package. >> I have it right here. I just pulled it from the website. >> Well, yeah, you got it, but I don't.
>> No, it's the public website. If you go on Linhaven, the city of Linhaven, click on the click on it, it says that the exhibit A will be presented to the commission today. Okay. Well, what I'm saying is when I
got this, you know, was it was it didn't say it wasn't for 5. It says 56 hours a week is the way I was interpreting it and I didn't have exhibit A or you know whatever in attachment and I come to see about that and also seen that they had been working several months. I've never seen any
bills go out to them or say anything about the $35,000 or whatever. But for several months, they said they were working here. And they didn't say that, you know, that was $52,000, you know, was a budget on this
because we we looked at it if it was going to go seven days a week. It was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. You know, and the way we've been spending money up here lately, 100,000, million here, million there. I think we spent eight or eight or 10 million dollars in the last month or two up here, you know, on equipment and all
that. So, that's the reason I was concerned because there's really been a whole hell of a lot going out up here, you know, and then said we can't we can't buy no candy for Halloween, you know, and that's pretty bad, too. But that's what I was concerned and
we're not getting the right information on some of this stuff. >> Thank you. >> All right. All right. So, I guess way forward will just do a better job of pointing to where stuff is in the packet. All right. Uh
All right. So, we have a motion on the floor. Oh, sorry. Is there any further public commentary before we move on? All right. Any further discussion from the commission? >> All right. We have a motion on the floor. Um, you want to say your motion again so that
>> uh motion to approve with a cap of $52,000. >> Second. >> All right. Mr. Lightfoot, if you'd call the role. >> Commissioner Warick. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Perno. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder. >> Yes. >> Mayor Pro Tim Peeles. >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson.
>> All right. Motion passed. Moving on to item number 23. discussion and possible approval to suspend utility payments for those affected by the federal government shutdown. Mayor Nelson, do you want to talk about this since you added it to the agenda?
>> Ju just uh real briefly. Um we know that we are a uh city that consists of many military personnel um as well as other federal employees. And so I mentioned this to uh interim city manager lightoot
on last week about bringing this to the commission for us to consider postponing or extending the grace period for all active duty military and federal employees regarding their utility billing um as needed for Vhaven families
affected by the government shutdown. and you know their bills will still be due but late fees will not be attached and regular payments um will resume once the shutdown is over. So I wanted to present that to the commission for consideration.
>> So I'll uh I'll discuss that. Um as a veteran myself I can uh definitely relate. Uh I've been through pretty close to a situation like this but luckily it never happened my whole career. I was in the Air Force. But what is our current process? I know when we
have just any resident that has problem paying it, they normally can come in get a payment plan or anything. >> Yes, sir. >> If we were to Is there anything different they would have to do as what we do now? >> I believe now it's a formal motion for a certain group that's affected by this
federal shutdown, right? Though it's not just a normal every everyday person that's behind on their water bill. to this group, they would still have to prove how how this affects them. >> But I think the thing that's different is when someone comes in, they just get a they get a payment plan, right? They
still get to pay late fees and all that stuff. They do a payment plan. Yeah. Okay. As well as the >> late fees. That's different. The other thing that's probably different is um because when we normally do this, they probably don't normally do, hey, don't pay two months and then start paying
here, do we? or they just >> No, we have shut people off on cut day that did not keep their payment plan up to date. So, they had a payment plan that was >> I mean, when they come in and do a payment plan, do we ever do a payment plan where they're like, "Hey, can you delay this a couple months and I can start paying all of it on this day?"
That's probably not normal, right? >> It's usually broken up into pieces and there's an arrangement every two weeks you pay so much. >> Okay. So, this is this is different then. This this will one um additional burden on staff will be verifying their
employment. So we'll have to come up with a methodology of making certain that this person is a federal government employee. >> Well, they would have to come in. >> Are we talking about employees or are we talking about people who are receive transfer payments and aren't getting them presently because of the government
shutdown? Because some people would say that. Well, if it's if it's just federal employees and military, it's very simple. >> Yeah. >> Show your common access card. >> I didn't staff will have to verify that. So, >> well, you're not illegally allowed to have a common access card if you're not
in. So, it'd be pretty simple. Like, you're not allowed to have one. Is that what the mayor But the Was that what the mayor was? Well, there's no motion yet, but I just was want Is this for federal employees or is it for all people affected? His
words were people affected by the government shutdown. Right. >> Mayor, did you hear that question? [Music] >> Mr. Commissioner Ferno asked, "Was your intent for all people affected by the government shutdown or just federal
employees affected by the government shutdown?" >> Let me say initially when select assistance last week. Um the parameter were those that were federal employees affected by the shutdown. as of recent
news if the commission would you know consider it would be all those that can prove they're affected by the government shutdown you know will be an extension of grace so that would be I would like for us to consider all those that are affected by
the government shutdown but if we want to extend that we just limit our scope to those affected by federal those federal employees so I like all all of those affected by the shutdown certainly would like for us to definitely push forward to employ
>> I I would say just federal employees and military that are I mean because that could open up a whole bunch of can of worms if we say anyone that's affected by the shutdown you know
>> for example our USDA inspector who comes every day he's cut off, >> right? >> I mean, so it's it is a >> but he's probably he's probably civil service, so he's a federal employee. >> He's federal. Yeah. >> But he's cut off. He's not getting paid.
Yeah. >> Do do we see any complications with this if we do this? >> Of course, it's creates a a burden on staff, but we can accommodate and figure out how to how to do it. >> Okay. And I would ask, would we time this
until the federal government is back in session or is this do you want to come back and discuss it again? I would imagine you'd need 30 days after because once the government opens back up, it will likely be two to three weeks
before you get a paycheck and then you'll have to start paying your bills again. So I would think whatever you do, you suspend it until maybe 30 days following the end of the shutdown. Yeah, perfect. Now, with that, is that going to affect anything as far as,
>> you know, have enough money to do what we need to do and like water, sewer, and that? >> Yes, sir. I can't see there being a significant number of federal employees affected in the city of Winhaven to show a difference in the revenue. I mean, I doubt you're going to see a huge decrease in the revenue taken in for the month
>> cuz I'm I'm sure there's going to be people that that are federal employees and military affected by the shutdown that aren't going to take it because they got enough money to to take care of it and they're like, it's just not my worth my time. But then there's people are like other paycheck
to paycheck that really need it. Those are the ones that'll come in. So, I imagine it's not going to be a substantial amount. >> I don't see it being a substantial amount. I do see people taking advantage of it, but not a substantial amount. >> Okay. >> Yeah. There will be some military also um that are critical staff and federal
employees that are critical staff that are still receiving pay. We won't be able to verify that if that's okay. >> Right. >> This is just basically delaying their payments. Right. >> Right. That it is not waving any any fees or anything. It's just working with
them. We will not shut them off. We will not require payment. We will work with them for a payment plan while this is ongoing. >> I'm sorry I misunderstood. I thought we were waving the late fees. >> Yes. >> Waving the fees, not waving their bills. >> Yes. Okay. >> Just waving the late fees, but they still are required to pay their bill
eventually. >> And I think that's what Miss Myers was getting at was >> once the shutdown's done, 30 days after that is when it you got to pay all that um from what you owed during that period to that point.
Does that make sense? So, >> if this passes, do we need to bring a resolution back next meeting to clarify that language or can we do it just by the motion here? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I would ask that if this passes, we the
communications department pushes this because we're going to have to we can't just assume that people are watching this meeting, >> right? >> All right. So, you have something. >> No. So, I'd make a motion to
um where people can uh request to suspend their utility accounts that are federal employees and military up until 30 days after when government's
back in operations. active military. >> All military >> that you direct you make a motion to direct staff to suspend all disconnections or late fees to current federal employees and military until 30 days following the end of the shutdown.
>> Yes, >> that'll be my motion. >> Military >> military federal. >> All right. Motion by Commissioner War, second in by Commissioner Perno. >> Just to verify, it's military and federal employees. Right. Right.
>> Is there any public commentary? All right. We'll go uh this side. Mr. Walker, you want to as well? Okay. We We've done the right side all night. We'll start with the left this time. >> Well, I'm going to be the villain here. Be the bad guy. This sounds great, but
I'm not a federal employee. Never been a federal employee. Never been in the service. I've lost my job several times. I've been laid off several times. This was never offered to me as an individual. We have a system in place currently to address people that are under hardship. I see this being no
different. And you say there probably don't see a whole lot of impact to the to the budget or to the income coming in. That tells me there's not going to be a whole lot of people utilizing this. Why don't we just utilize the existing system and let it play out like it always does. Um, waving the late fees, I
can kind of be on board with that, but if you're going to wave the late fees for a federal employee, why aren't you going to lay wave late fees for somebody that's temporarily laid off from somebody else's job? I I just I hate to be the villain here, but I don't see where this is a lot different from people that work in the private sector
day in and day out. Um, we all go through those cycles. We've all been through them, and I think this is just another one of those, and we just need to follow the procedures that we have in place currently. Thank you, >> Mayor Pimp. I think this sounds uh I
pretty much agree with him in the sense that this sounds like a bookkeeping nightmare. I don't even I can't even comprehend how you would, like I said earlier, you just provide a common access card. I can show you what it looks like. It's illegal to have one unless you are a federal employee or a
military. It's very, very simple. You present your CAC, you get you do it. It's it's very very simple. Um if not >> very simple >> I I mean it's on them to come and provide that's their documentation. It's
a legal document. So if it find if we find out later that they presented that and they weren't allowed to have it, they will be prosecuted and they will go to jail. >> Let's put that in the ordinance, too. Like it it is illegal to use a common
access card if you're not allowed to have one. Um, and so >> this is kind of what took place during COVID. People who couldn't go to work, you know, and they were having a hard time also paying their electric bills
and water bills. And >> well, the argument I'll make is when >> your military or federal employee, it's pretty stable, right? you're you're almost guaranteed to get a paycheck unless you got in trouble getting kicked
out, you know, something like that. So, it's you're almost guaranteed that you're going to get a paycheck except for times like this. Would you agree with that? >> Also, I make the argument that uh private employees don't go to war. You
know, I feel like I can't speak for federal employees, but military I feel like you kind I want to kind of support in the city of Linhaven that we're looking out for our military personnel. >> I can tell you my USDA guy, he'd go up
against any chicken >> any day. That's what he does. >> Do we have any further public commentary? Oh, Mr. Walker, we'll go with you. You're right. Government know some of the people plan ahead and they they
they're not going to take advantage. It's going to be very handy hard to handle this very hard because I'm retired federal more than that. Okay. My salary comes
out of military. That's who paid me. Okay. I'm not I'm a federal worker. Uh, one of the problems is people that started this are going to be paid.
People that put us in this problem are going to be paid irregardless. What happens here is the military and social security people are going to be hit. Okay? What happens is when it goes
finished, they get paid back. Are they going to take and pay you back? >> Okay. And you got it. Thank you. >> I guess I'll add a little bit of perspective to this since I'm affected. Um,
every day I'm required to go to work. I don't have a choice. I'm not paid. I will not receive a paycheck for who knows when. I have no problem with that. I I don't live paycheck to paycheck. So, I don't have a problem paying my water
bill. But what I would ask you all is to is to is to consider it's different than if I was laid off from work and I could go down to somewhere else and get a job and make money until my employer decide
that they wanted to rehire me. I don't have that luxury. Okay? I have to go to work. Cannot just not show up. I have to go to work. I am not being paid. I will eventually get paid, but I do not get a paycheck. I didn't get a paycheck last
time. I didn't get a paycheck this next time. I'm not going to get a paycheck this next time. So, I've missed now two and three/4ers or two and one quarter paychecks. And if you can, you know, if people are okay with it, I mean, you know, some of you all are business owners. If if your
employees are okay if you force them to come to work and just not pay them, then that's fine. But that's not the situation that we're in. This makes sense. It's not a bookkeeping bookkeeping nightmare. I don't think it's going to be a large a large
populace of people. Um so this is a this is a pretty easy thing. Um, but I would I would suggest passing it uh to those that that are not as financially prepared through this because it is does affect some people. Thank you.
>> Uh, what about contractors? I get paid by the defense department of defense. Nobody's at defast to pay the invoices for the company that pays me. The government shutdown doesn't affect >> It does affect me. I'm not I might not get paid because my company might be
short on cash. >> The way that the budget works with contractors. Yeah. You're >> nobody's paying the invoices. Commissioner Peebles. I'm having to right now tell subcontractors, "Hey, sorry. We can't pay you because we don't have cash to pay you." >> Well,
>> I don't really care if I have to pay it my utility bill. I just got the email today and it's going to get paid on autopay like usual, but just trying to be a jerk to you guys. Just get you guys riled up sometimes. Um, I think it's actually a great thing you're doing. I worry about the burden
on the staff. Um, I think we have a program in place already. I appreciate that you're giving them guidance on how to identify who's opting in and this is strictly an opt-in relief program, right? So, nobody's automatically going to get
their bill delayed or waved. So, uh what I would ask is if you can provide um I would assume you were probably going to do so, but if you can show the staff, um how to access a some kind of documentation online to
be able to prove like so they can visually verify what they're looking at counts as an official document. Obviously, you don't want them to take a picture of your common access card because we know that's OBSAC, but there are visuals available online. And if we
could point out to the staff to have a cheat sheet there for customer service because they may not be familiar, make it make their job a little bit easier. Um, and uh, also if you could just add in that they have to show proof that they emailed their senators.
Any other public commentary in the back? No. All right. Um, are we got a motion on the floor? Um, with a second. Any further discussion from the commission? >> I'm sorry. The motion was by
Commissioner War. Who was the second? >> It was Commissioner Pero, right? >> All right. If you would please call the role. Commissioner War. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Pero. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Tinder.
>> Yes. >> Mayor Proton Peoples. >> Yes. >> Mayor Nelson.