##VIDEO ID:2AzfJ58hykE## e good afternoon thank you all for coming I'd like to call to order the Board of Commissioners regular Workshop meeting today is Wednesday December 11th 20 24 and it is 2 p.m. city clerk would you call the role please Mayor Brooks here vice mayor tagen here commissioner Kerr here commissioner McAn here commissioner gabay here all are present um we have quite a crowd here today and I believe that many of the individuals sitting in our audience are here to talk about the jetty which is located on subject seven Finance and if it is okay with the board I'd like to ask to move that to the top above the City attorney so it will be our first item of discussion I agree okay then we will change that public comment public participation is encouraged if you are addressing the commission step to the podium and state your name and address for the record and the organization or group you represent please limit your comments to 5 minutes and do not include any topic on the agenda public comment on agenda items will be allowed when they come up if you would like someone at the city to follow up on a comment or question made at the meeting you may fill out a comment card with the contact information and give it to the city manager comment cards are available at the back table in the commission Chambers completing a comment card is not mandatory do we have any comments for items that are not on today's agenda with no comments we will move to finance the financial analysis and preliminary damage assessment post Hurricane Andrew great thank you so in this presentation I just have two items on the agenda one will do a revenue and expense analysis so let's talk about and learn about the costs that we've incurred to date hurricane related as well as the impacts of the hurricanes on revenues to the city and I've given you a previous presentation on Revenue loss estimates initially I've made some revisions because we've looked at now some now we get more information we've been able to look at a year-over-year comparison on October revenues 2020 uh FY 2024 FY 2025 so I've made a couple adjustments Here There and some Revenue loss so I want to present I have a nice depiction of our Reserve estimate as of 9:30 20 uh 2025 to the end of this next year based on where we were for audited financial statements at the end of 2023 what we've incurred through the completion of fiscal year 2024 un audited of course uh but we have some pretty good figures on where where we are as of October 1st 202 24 then if we just play out the fiscal year 2025 as we've budgeted what are budget revenues what are our budget expenses and then what's that impact on Revenue loss that's gives us estimated ending reserves of 2025 I think that's pertinent to go on any kind of decision making on what capital projects that we want to prioritize based on what do we have available at the fund level on a reserve from a reserve standpoint so that's where I want to start with then the second piece is going to do just provide you with just an overall damage assessment unfortunately this is very preliminary so I'm going to have a lot more I don't knows than real answers on where we are in terms of true uh financial information on what's the actual cost of this piece of infrastructure or this property or this um this equipment so on and so forth but what I've done the best I could um at the time of this submission was compile everything from the various sources that I had mainly from the different uh Department directors um Within Marina um Public Works primarily uh Recreation little and then also little Building Services as well as any I can also provide some context on where we stand on on um Insurance Recovery as well I have some limited information on that so that'll be extended presentation that I like to cover in those two pieces so let's let's get started so first I wanted to give you that October uh Revenue comparison we've closed that October and we actually just finished our bank wreck for November so finance department we we're doing really well in terms of keeping up to date with all the transactions that hit in fiscal year 25 through October so these are pretty good numbers here uh that I just wanted to give you a year-over-year comparison just looking at the month of October to see kind of where we fall so that's what this graph depicts uh from the blue being in 2023 the orange in 2024 and then gray in 2025 and then the next one is is presenting that in a table so looking at where some some more con areas of concern uh might be just kind of working our way down um you know building permit fees those are down pretty substantially from October of a year ago on October you 2023 um given that uh uh the fees and collection manual update that we passed of of a no fee permit for any um uh items relating to uh storm damage on on those restoration cost so that's obviously going to impact revenues uh recreation in Marina obviously down there not um with our services not fully up and running um at that time so you can see there from 153,00 6,000 last year in October and then 29,000 this past year sanitation storm water charges I don't really see some major impacts to these revenues um storm water charges the um Property Owners pay throughout the year so those there's no grace period on that those are embedded in your bill uh sanitation we can um remove sanitation charges as long as there is a a demo permit that a home that a property owner has that we can then discontinue your sanitation services but unfortunately for homeowners in our current policy um if if you are a current homeowner even if you're not living in that home we do provide s sanitation service throughout the community and and will um you'll still be charged for that sanitation service so we don't anticipate some major decline in revenues around sanitation Fire EMS contractual Services that's based on contract with the Readington with pelis County EMS those are contractually set and are not impacted by the Hurricanes parking unfortunately is um for obvious reasons so we see about 230 something thousand in 23 and 24 in October October and then just 6,000 in uh October of 2025 uh call me an optimist but I am I'm hopeful that things will really pick up as our parking uh lots are cleared and ready for vehicles um and then we'll start to see kind of a return to normaly around the the season and so hopefully January February March we start seeing that uptick that we can see as comparable to to years past and this will just be a temporary dip uh especially in October with this in some slight pickups in November December and that I'm hoping when we do this year-over-year monthly Trend analysis we're seeing a lot more comparability in January February March and through the rest of the fiscal year that's The Optimist in me uh franchise fees not not significantly uh impacted here uh that's like on your utility uh uh Bill we have utility taxes franchise fees that we get from Duke Energy so that can be from um reduced for uh say residences that uh have reduced uh water usage uh that might reduce their utility bill that would then reduce or electric excuse me electric usage that could reduce their utility bill that could then reduce our utility service taxes and franchise fees that we receive but not a tremendous dip there um impact fees um that's uh you know really dependent on on on the um the permit itself um so permit activity would guide um impact fees for recreation Transportation um and Public Safety um interest and other earnings we mostly good there are cash position hasn't plummeted or anything yes we are incurring some storm related expenditures revenues are bit down in the month of October but not to to a serious nature I think what would impact interest and other earnings more as what the rate uh interest rates are doing um nationally so right now interest rates are still holding okay we'll see what happens in in the next with this change in election and what happens in 2025 with interest rates um we do anticipate some dip but uh we shall see there uh not much on taxes on local option use and fuel taxes so I feel generally okay there like communication Services taxes um you know uh half cent sales taxes um even the state shared revenues I'm not seeing a massive decline there so I feel pretty good about it and as Commerce improves and there's more um um business activity that means sales transactions that Revenue will will climb back up so I think that's maybe just a blip and is was not too significant for October um rents and royalties was great utility service taxes um was was uh good as well uh one that's not on here ADV valorum tax revenue I do anticipate receiving our tax ADV alarm tax revenue um as estimated I think as I've mentioned previously where we will see a big decline in our ADV valorum revenues that will come from the tax collector will be in the spring and summertime as um Property Owners can submit the dr- 465 U that is the application uh for um catastrophic event where you're um we're displaced from your from your from your home and then provide that uh information to the property appraiser then that gets re U goes through review process and then um a portion not all but a portion um of your uh property tax payment can be refunded to you the homeowner um if you meet those qualifications and so certain evidence so if there's any questions from the audience on that you can just go to the penel County property appraiser website and there's information on there on the completion of the Dr uh Dr 465 so that can impact our Ador tax revenue but we won't see it right away because that is not even due for submission I believe until March 31st if I'm not mistaken um is when that cut off is but don't quote me on that please go to the website so you can see for yourself and then those refunds would get netted against uh collections for the city um around that late spring summertime you have until March 1st 20125 March March 1st not March 31st thank you so then the next uh table here which I think is very important is okay where what's what is the financial health of the city where's Where Do We Stand from a reserve standpoint so the first row here that available fund balance and these are our our our main funds those of which that are subjected to potential Revenue loss um you know Marina parking obviously sanitation and storm water to a much lesser degree um general fund the big culprit there AV alarm taxes as I mentioned archal archal fund um mainly there is going to be we get parking revenues in the archal um at archal Park in that parking um parking lot so that's going to we're going to see reductions there building fund we we've um talked about there with um no charge permits um and then the local option sales tax fund is that discretionary s tax that's that's um based on those uh Commerce sales activity uh within um businesses within the city madir beach so that first row the available fund balance those are true numbers based on our audited financial statements then your actual revenues and expenses year to date the our our books aren't completely closed audit done we're still going through that process but these are pretty near complete numbers so then that gets us to just difference between revenues and expenses that gets us to our available reserves as of 101 2024 then I put in the line for our projected Revenue reduction and that's derived from the following Pages where I give you some of that detail to say here are these individual revenues and here's are kind of my guess estimate of what that percentage Revenue loss can be and that's what goes into that row then if we just say let's just uh our actual results will absolutely mirror budget which of course it never does but let's pretend that it does this would be the budgeted revenues and transfers in budgeted expenditures transfers out at the fund level to then derive ultimately that estimated fund balance of September 30 2025 so if we were in in a deficit position on many of these funds especially the general fund I would be very concerned um but overall you can see where we're at on estimated available fund balance of September 30 2025 the biggest concern really is in the storm water fund and that really has nothing to do with the Hurricanes we've got major storm water renovation projects and so we already have multiple areas that are already in process and then we had you can see budgeted 11 almost 11.8 million budgeted for fiscal year 2025 and we can talk about the likelihood of of U endeavoring in in that particular I can't remember what is it area nine that was um pretty costly but we're also exploring actively exploring um a potential grant funding opportunities as well to help um uh provide some some a revenue Source in a grant Revenue Source into the storm water to help defay some of those Capital expenditures um but overall nothing you know in terms of ending fund balance at September 30 2025 nothing gives me serious pause or concern but of course we can all you see here is if we uh complete everything that was budgeted and so then the next page is just a a car out from our actual budget summary um just to show you kind of by fund how I how I derive those Bud uh revenue and transfers in expenditure transfers out uh by fund um just so you can see summarized where that was coming from and you can see how much of that was actually you know Capital with the Lion Share being uh in the storm water fund and then probably second was the the local sales tax fund which had almost $3 million uh budgeted for Capital as well as archal about 3.5 million budget in 20 2025 for Capital then the next Pages just go through and I won't go through every single line item I think I kind of covered this to show here's your account description here's what we originally budgeted for and then here's our percentage uh reduction that we anticipate again kind of kind of high level at this point I'll we'll kind of know more as we go through the year obviously and see where things compare year-over-year um but I got a pretty decent Glimpse just seeing where we were October of last year to October this year so skipping through those uh that gives me our our general fund our other governmental funds and then our Enterprise funds Marina parking being the most and the sanitation fund and I don't really foresee any really Revenue loss storm related on the storm water fund um because regardless of the state of the property um those those storm water charges are due and payable monthly or bonly for in your panel's County utility bill then the next slide is just to kind of cover uh just a comparison of hurricane related expenses so just kind of walking through what we've actually incurred in paid relating to Hurricane Helen and hurricane Milton um so this is just a graph here where we are in Helen versus Milton Helen had by far the most damage given the the flood damage on Helen versus just more uh wind related damage on Milton so most of our big ticket expense items are heline related and then sum are you know or just more kind of General storm related that you know we kind of had to choose while do we this is more for heren more Milton so some of was judgment called but any of those that were the The General roll of thumb if it was flood it's Helen if it was um wind storm damage then it was um Milton so then I just kind of gave you kind of a top 10 list on Helen where we' spend been spending the most money to date so about uh uh 500,000 um of the total so I think the total was a l about little over 550,000 close to 600,000 spent spent so what is in spent means what's we've actually incurred meaning we've received the good or service we've gotten the invoice we've processed in our system and we may or may not have paid it depending where where we are in the invoice approval Payment Processing um but that's what incurred Means versus what we might just have in purchase orders is what we're committing to paying uh either that you know now and in the future so that's that's what we call encumbered when we have a purchase commitment against it called the PO and is what we've actually physically incurred and most likely paid out so that's uh almost 600,000 for Helen and you can see where the the biggest ones are the the bathroom rentals for Helen being the highest and then uh serve pro for the um remediation work um at the downstairs in the building area 135,000 was the next largest and then we've got the same for Milton uh incurred so you know we're barely at not even at a $100,000 of incurred in total and the top five of that which is you know probably a good you know two-thirds of that is with where we can is for these top five vendors and we give um explanations uh for what those costs related to so obviously Helen's taking the line share of the um the storm related um um expenses so the next is the current status of our damage assessment before I go into that let me stop any questions all seems clear understandable so far I have a couple good so far go ahead I have a couple questions um yeah real quickly on your graph and on your expenses um where you have your comparison hurricane related expenses are any of those eligible for uh FEMA grants FEMA reimburse is that something that we're showing now because we don't have a commitment for but then we expect to be taken care of yeah great question so we're going through that process now so we've had what's called our scoping meeting we have been assigned a a pdmg and there's so many acronyms uh project management uh project manager from FEMA so we had initial scoping meeting to kind of lay out here is all the the damage that we sustained we next have 6 days after that scoping meeting is our uh damage uh inventory assessment that we provide on everything and things get will get classified into different projects under different categories right so we didn't even have in here debris removal right but debris removal has been happening we just haven't been invoiced and paid that yet but that we we do have those purchase commitments for that and I'll mention we have submitted for an expedited project um and FEMA has already um appropriated over $6 million to the State of Florida fdm um uh for reimbursement to the city for those debris that's those called category a debris removals so that debris removal costs um we anticipate as soon as we incur we will get quickly reimbursed um on that if not receiving some money in advance I'm working through the administ the details administratively on that but the good news is on the line share of our expenses me well over you know in the millions of dollars will be the debris removal and we anticipate Swift reimbursement from that given this expedit project that I uh applied for um with with FEMA through the state through the fdm um so the that's the the short answer is we anticipate most if not all of our expenses that we're incurring that are hurricane related will either be reimbursed through through insurance or then through FEMA and also even their the deductible for insurance can even be FEMA eligible for FEMA reimburse and reimbursement as well however FEMA will go through all that and there could be some some uh certain expenses that might be disqualifying for whatever reason so it's a little preliminary for me to say all of it um but we do anticipate the the vast majority of it but we just got to go through work through that process where we'll be um and we've already like like I said undertaken that um where we're going to be partitioning our different our different expenses into categories and projects submit them with all the documentation and support and then have a good idea when I can come back to you all later and said this is what we're submitting and this is what we're anticipating would be subject to reimbursement and this is what might be out of cost at the end of the day to the city a little too premature for me to give you those dollar estimates at this time but that is what I'm anticipating coming back to you all a later date with that information great um so I'm I'm assuming that the graph pretty much reflects these top 10 vendors it correlates um but I don't see anything as far as uh overtime I expect that the overtime number with staff has to be um big number is that also eligible for FEMA it is yes depending on again depending on the category so there could be some like category B emergency protective measures where our staff is going out and clearing the streets and providing um support to the community in various way it's not highlighted here it is not these are just uh expenses relating to vendors yeah but I I can certainly provide you reporting on um overtime costing per as it comes together there's you know it is what it is we had to do what we needed to do so what we had to do and and we are tracking that so we were tracking that rather meticulously both the um you know that cat B time that I mentioned um as well as cat Z which is the actual managerial administrative aspects of managing the FEMA Grant and that's reimbursable regardless of overtime 100% so we're compiling that information as well like my time or my part of my monthly invoice to you all is going to be we hope eligible for for FEMA re reimbursement great so up until now we've only been reimbursed essentially Personnel costs in Prior storms for the most part this will be the first time that it's considerably other than Personnel time as at least it's at least that tells me that Personnel shouldn't be shouldn't be an issue correct no will not that's that's an easy one that's why you probably would wouldn't put in here to begin with I would imagine and we are submitting as Andrew stated every expense to be reimbursed absolutely yes um just a question of just so I can understand I'm I kind of found it if I don't understand it somebody else doesn't understand it um so overall am I looking at from your numbers roughly $2 million loss and revenue or $4 million loss and revenue because I'm looking at the Enterprise funds losses and the do I add these all together are we are we kind of looking at right now kind of spit and I I'm feel they're listed by fund so if you go we're looking at about A4 million 4.4 million as of right now our total of the total City's budget which this year was a little over 40 million right which or 42 million of which half is capital right but yes it's the total so roughly 10 to 12% or maybe more of our total budget is what we do not anticipate receiving the rest of this fiscal year right and that's not reimbursable loss of loss of Revenue is not a something you can go back to Fe we talked about that on the on the last Mee yeah Revenue loss is not reimbursable from FEMA in total we had 20 looks like about 29 million originally budget and revenues and then about a $4.6 million uh estimated reduction to that and this this question really is to Robin do you have a feel for the businesses where we are now the 50% of them back 20% of them back 80% of them back probably a little above 50% a little above yeah so you should be able to I mean b in terms of retail retail brick and mortar yes tourism I'm thinking well if you add tourism if you take into account um condos no I mean a significant amount of our tourism are from visitors staying in the condos along Golf Boulevard most of those have not they're slowly starting but most of those have not I get that but by if I recall looking at other graphs over the years a significant part of our tourism is from locals in surrounding counties day trips and that's where we get the parking revenue and that's where you get the restaurant revenue and um so I just I'm trying to find any encouragement we can find no we're starting to get day Trippers back and that's the importance of getting the businesses reopened to have them come back we expect to be in somewhat decent shape in the High season first quarter yes it's good news that's all I have anything any questions I have a quick question um Andrew um you we not able to calculate the adum tax loss right adum adum tax loss would be yeah I mean that's a that's a very high level estimate for me to get a true number I'd have to knock on every door and say are you intending on submitting a Dr 465 so so I have no idea what the participation rate will be and then from there even when you submit it you have to submit other supporting documentation to um provide some evidentiary matter that you were indeed displaced from your home and not in I get that but um I I would say that that particular loss is pretty major to your city loss of revenue from adum tax so if if you were to have a magic one let's say and I'm not putting on a spot right now it can happen in the future would you be able to estimate um how much loss would that be for let's say 25 26 it it's going to be significantly more in fiscal 26 properties will be re so as as Andrew stated all property owners who have been displaced have until March 1st of 2025 to apply to obtain a refund for the current year we do not as Andrew stated we do not know how many I'm going to infer probably 90 to 95% or higher will apply there's no cost to apply you just have to fill out the paperwork provide follow the instructions for that process in terms of the amount of the refund we don't know we can we can estimate and I think we've roughly estimated anywhere from 1 million to probably as much as 1.5 million but we'll know more hopefully January into February to March based on the number who have applied and then how the the calculations that the property appraiser will apply but I think it's safe to say it's probably going to be in the1 to2 million range just to give you an estimate for fiscal 26 properties will be reassessed as of January 1 of 2025 where we're estimating obviously there will be a lot of homes that are going to be assessed at a very low rate how will that impact us it's going to impact us how much we just don't know yet we're going to work to determine that over the next really three it'll be every month that we'll be working to determine that but we may be looking as much as half of our property tax revenue just to give you an idea right now yeah if the storms had not hit we would be anticipating receiving 5, 782,000 in adum tax revenue I I put out there and it's not scientific 15% reduction I think it warrants to say I had the conversation with the Property Appraiser's office and although there will be a reduction there's also a great possibility of a large increase due to the houses that will be sold get reassessed their taxes will go up the houses that get torn down and re built so I don't think there is a crystal ball based off of the conversation I had with the property appraiser I think that in the end we could end up with no loss of tax revenue if I might I would agree with the mayor um you got to remember the only part of that loss is going to be on the structure the value is in the dirt so I I agree but we already remember we we are talk that's we're talking about fiscal year 26 right so that that all plays into into what our assess our true taxable value Citywide will be and I totally agree you're going to have some revaluations based on the dirt that's going to in that's going to increase based on sales activity 100% you know that's hard to forecast um 25 that doesn't play at all because we're based on that 11 2024 assessed value there is just what's the particip level and the um and the request for partial rebate I have one other question uh you had stated that um the um storm water tax will still still continue to come in and there should not be any loss with the storm water tax is that storm water tax also is mostly for commercial or does that also include residential it includes residential and so there's two ways that you can assess storm you can do it through an assessment on your property tax bill or you can include it in your utility bill the city metor beach includes it in the utility bill so it's it's paid along with customers water Wastewater and sanitation utility and then we receive that money from pel's County utilities and if they can't afford to pay that what would happen well you know like any like any customer not paying their water bill you know subject to shut off um well I mean if they're not there to use the water so there's not a whole bunch of you know the bill is not that much but I mean there just be a utility lean at the end of the day and keep it the storm water fees is $10 a month for most for residential it's actually the smallest fee on on your penis County utility bill for all residential well I've been talking to some residents and um you know people are hurting so we need to make every effort to help as much as possible I have one more question on the Milton expenses incurred I noticed that the serve pro for the rec center is not there so that means we have not paid that bill yet and I my question is will we have to pay that or will that get paid by our insurance for the building we would incur all the costs and then get uh check from the insurance company and I can check I can go on our um within our Erp right now and just do a quick search on serve pro and see I saw the I saw the amount in the damage assessment um as to how much the cost was to serve pro for the rec center I think it was like $75,000 right something I think it was maybe was it it was considerably less than downstairs which was weird because I would have thought that the rec center would have been bigger but I guess that's just maybe my perception of size okay up checking say Ser Pro okay now we just got it was just it was just um paid recently so it didn't make it in the report so we have one for $135,400 stairs then now we just have a payment that just went out for $ 75,6 thank you Andrew yeah that was the madira Beach rec center okay any other questions or you want to move on to the uh to the damage assessment questions so I've just I've broken this out into uh I believe four different categories just land and infrastructure like our Parks um streets then I we then we hit our actual City facilities buildings and our and our vehicles and our equipment and so again compiled all this information um from the various uh our various department heads and then working in tandem with Insurance um and I'm not sure how you all want to go through this if we can we just want to show this and then if you have any questions on any uh particular items and there are some that I can offer also some color on um meetings discussions we've had with our insurance carrier and then and then a couple only a couple on the one on the um on on two vehicles that I can speak to um actual insurance reimbursement but nothing on that on on land infrastructure so just starting with land and infrastructure and most of that would be uh any questions that maybe our Public Work structure can address but this is what we've compiled thus far I know very kind of preliminary we don't have a true estimated cost to repair and replace on a lot of these and we have you know current status is hey we're looking for proposals waiting to get that cost information in but at least wanted to give you our inventory of those items um for this meeting and this presentation so I have an item that I'd like to discuss sure um the John's Pass Jetty sidewalk um most of the people sitting here today are here for that and um of all the items it is one that I have a lot of questions on I went down and um I've gone down several times and walked the jetty and looked at the jackhammering out of the sidewalk and I think everybody knows how I feel about it being jacked out I made that perfectly clear in our November meeting um I had some conversations with attorney tras uh went down looked at how the jackhammered sidewalk is is there um I went out and walked on it thank goodness I didn't get trespassed or arrested and a deputy did show up and told me to get on so so um but I do think that the in my opinion I don't know if the other Commissioners have been down there and walked it um have you yeah okay so it is probably not the safest thing for people to walk on with those concrete with the way the concrete is jackhammered up however when the jetty was built I believe it was in 60 in the 60s there was no sidewalk it was all The Boulders and people have fished on those Boulders I'm calling them Boulders for lack of a better term that's how I'm going to call them I call the jetty a jetty and it's the jetty is actually the whole thing but when I say Jetty I'm referring to the sidewalk just for clarification so when you go down to John's Pass and you get out to the jetty if you stand Where the Sidewalk started and it has been broken up into into pieces all the way down to the tip of the jetty from that whole area is marked off right now and we do have the um sheriff's department has been instructed to go down and tell people to leave they have been told they'll get trespassed if they don't and they could get arrested but when you're standing there if you look if you go to the left it is all the boulders you can walk right off the seaw wall cap walk right down fish I mean they're this big they're ginormous and I I don't know what cost we have incurred to date for jackhammering it but I would like to I personally if the commission agrees would like to see a cost to have all of that concrete removed because I cannot see where we are only looking at six to n months and rebuilding it the permitting alone with the core we don't even have an appointment we haven't even had a meeting with the county or the state at um so I would foresee that to take quite some time and a seemingly good compromise would be to remove what has been jackhammered get it back to Ground Zero of when it was originally built so that anyone who wants to fish in that area could seemingly safely navigate those Boulders like they do on the other half of the jetty as it is and at least allow our fishing community Community to get back to fishing with all of the encumbrances of climbing over a fence and getting in trouble and all of that um I don't know what that would cost I I would think that as a commission if you were all so inclined to think that would be a good idea that we could get a cost brought back to us to approve for that removal I don't maybe Megan might have some comments on how we would remove it who would remove it and I'm interested to know how my fellow Commissioners and vice mayor feel about doing that because it's not just my decision it's all of our decisions to vote on well the first first question in my mind is what prompted to remove the sidewalk I understand there was a lawsuit and there was some probably uh maybe unsafe um but not it was not entirely unsafe maybe there was a separation between a couple of pan here and there and that could have been adjusted but just an overall picture and we need to express this to our citizens what prompted to besides that as far as safety was there any other reason for removal of of the sidewalk safety and is exactly what you stated the lawsuit we ended up our insurance paid $50,000 for the trip and fall the uncertainty as to who owned what but the mediation SLE settlement for that lawsuit determined the city owns the sidewalk and the county owns the Rocks underneath it that's what was the the result or the resolution from the mediate the settlement of the lawsuit but safety the the previous storms had damaged particularly at the end the railing and we had blocked that off but people still kept going around it over it so the decision was made to remove it let's redo it and that's where we are today so we we do have a meeting scheduled tomorrow with the core to begin that process but that's the reasoning behind it is safety and that's the main reason for it really the and the Damage that the storms had led on the actual sidewalk and the railings at the end of the sidewalk which is what was stated at the last meeting are we planning on rebuilding that sidewalk or you're just not wanting to have it's going to be re it's going to be redone all of it okay now as far as Coastal Construction line um did did we have to maybe consult with the state to remove all that or we just did it it was damaged so we removed it mayor I just want to put in a couple things uh on my visits the first thing that struck me when I saw our Jetty the Rocks right is it looks just like a blind pass there's a jetty a rock Jetty there and pass the grill across from the hurricane there's a jetty there uh sanki there's there's rocks there and so my question is I guess couldn't we put a a uh a sign that says enter at your own risk to relieve the liability from us I know that Mr TR will have something to say about that a sign is not going to relieve us from liability yeah so if there's any dangerous portions of it that we've created we're going to be responsible for it and so the the smart hardest thing to do would you remove all of the rebar I haven't seen it so I'm just from what I've understood we have pictures I took pictures CL we the rebar remove the rebar remove the concrete from the sidewalk and put it back into its natural condition um and then once that's all done add signs basically what we call Assumption of risk signs placed out there but I don't feel comfortable with the broken up sidewalk there I you're saying that the the liability uh signs won't won't be effective as long as there's damage that we caused there it's our it would be a lawsuit for negligence on our part for leaving that dangerous situation right so mayor based on that I mean how how or why it happened makes sense to me if there was a a lawsuit uh I'm in favor of pulling that stuff out and returning it to what it looked like as soon as possible I I would agree with that definitely agree with with that I I fished there for many years uh Tarpon snook it's a beautiful place beautiful um I've enjoyed it I've met a lot of wonderful people down there and uh I tend to agree just to get rid of the rebar and the concrete and let allow the uh people to have access to that so my question Robin would be um the city did the demol the demolition of the sidewalk who would remove it would the city remove it or would we contract to have that removed we can remove it so if the city is going to remove it can we I mean there'll be a cost associated with it right I mean there would be a however many hours I don't think that in my opinion I don't see how we don't remove it because it needs to be put back safe so that it can be accessed um can we can we discuss this today right now and add it to our next meeting to vote on that the city would remove that concrete and we can go ahead and move forward so that we don't have to wait until January because the uh cost Associated is internal it's not a contractor would that be reasonable for us to be able to do or can we do that attorney TR so uh you cannot do it at this meeting this is a workshop meeting you can do it at regular meeting so if you want to address that the next meeting and you want to give direction to the city manager to do something in particular then you can give him Direction at that meeting and then he will you know follow up on so on the next meeting we can go ahead and vote on that correct since there is no external cost you don't yeah you can do it at the meeting at four o'clock okay we can expedite that so does does the commission agree to do that and have it added do you have any conc concerns no I'd support that okay I agree with that I would I would uh follow uh Mr TR advisement okay so then at our next at four o'clock we will at the very beginning I will add it to the agenda and we will vote to approve to have it removed okay sounds great awesome thank you do you see anything else on there you have questions on just uh mayor and commission regarding the well as you can see obviously a considerable amount of infrastructure damage at most of our Park well a lot of curbing at a lot of our parking lots John's Pass Park you can look at everything from the parking stops to fencing uh the restroom you know building had a little bit of damage picnic tables at John's Pass Park and also up at archbald Park Etc and just to give you the detail of of that as well as if you go along the other parking lots and the Damage that occurred we still have an omegan about a dozen access points that are closed maybe not a dozen but but there all of our parking areas are open from John's Pass Park all the way up to 135th including the access out to the sand the access at 136th is closed and then as you go north there are a few other that are still closed including all the way up to archal Park which remains closed they're working on the bathroom building and then of course we just had all of the sand removed last week by the state's contractor on the south side which had been used for over a month as the storm drain pit where they would uh vacuum or suction out the storm drains and then dump those contents and at that parking lot they did remove it it's been cleaned but as we were further cleaning it today we found a missing piece of the actual parking lot for example so as we continue to do we're still finding some damage as debris gets removed the sand gets removed there's occasionally damage underneath the sand to the parking lots so scrapes and other divits let's call them and so we're working to compile all of that as we proceed other than everything that's listed on here you know Stu Kitty Stewart Park will probably I don't know how many months that will take but staff has been working to remove the debris from that one the seaw wall was destroyed the pavers were destroyed Etc so working to remove all of that when we switch over to our facilities we had this building incurred some damage from the second from Milton a little bit of flood um but really the main ones being downstairs and then our our Recreation Center downstairs had a little bit of flooding from Helen uh myself and the two deputies that were here uh were just watching everything coming the night of the storm I was a little concerned downstairs that there's a door that goes to the back to the canal side of the building and that door was rattling and looking out through the the glass part there looked to be about four to five feet on the outside of that door um thank y that door did not break um but we did obtain some water so we are now approaching the point where we are getting ready to issue an RFP but really the discussion is your direction uh staff and I had had discussions about possibly relocating our building and Community Development departments that were downstairs up here to the second floor um since that we really haven't had any discussions among staff but we wanted to bring that to you and have a discussion what your thoughts are whether we place them back downstairs um and so leave everything as is we just simply repair the downstairs of City Hall and put the building and Community Development departments back down there the thought was to swap the city center over here out to my left and the fitness room with downstairs but the more it seems like really to keep them the way that they are but really wanted to get your input and as to how we Pro how you would like us to proceed again the reason behind trying looking to change would be if hopefully doesn't happen if there were a if a second flood occurred then we would not displace the employees downstairs we're still determining I think through our insurance and the insurance of the flood the company that we purchased the flood panels what if any liability the flood panel company had because water was not supposed to protrude through the there but it did start to seep in so I I might start this one um I went I have been downstairs and walked the building department planning department downstairs saw the amount of water that they received I would not be in favor of moving them upstairs I think the cost associated with moving the building department upstairs taking away a rental room and moving the gym I don't see where that is is cost is a costly or it is a very costly thing I don't see where that is um in keeping with what would be good for the community um which the community will get the chance to to weigh in on that we have a activity room that we rent we have rental income off of and the gy to me to spend probably a half a million to a million dollars moving the building department upstairs and putting the wreck room the activity room and gym downstairs we're going to not only are we going to spend a fortune doing it then we're going to lose any and all income that we earn off of the activity room and a comment that I got back when I made that comment was that we don't really rent that room so to just go ahead and say I'd like to see the revenue off that room for the last 10 years and find out if we're not making any money off of that room why not are we not advertising it are we not being a good advocate of that rental space I mean it's beautiful if you rent that room all of that outdoor area you get to be able to use for birthday parties weddings um what what have you I mean it's been rented over the years many times so I think that to make the decision based off of four inches of water downstairs and did not understand why the water intruded it doesn't make any sense I think that that the sheetrock should go back up they should move back downstairs and get back to work is my opinion yeah the problem is the flood panels that need to be fixed corrected uh mayor my my my feeling is that if we put something else down there that could also get uh destroyed and uh if it's if it's possible to just repair it get the flood panels I would be in favor of uh leaving that department downstairs I'm not sure I understood your total um the alternates totally because it seemed like you were saying bring those up but then we would not have to use the space that's over here what did we do before we had the the space that's up here would be downstairs so we wouldn't have offices the current configuration would change yeah that wouldn't that wouldn't work this is so much more marketable and I do know you do sure have it used quite often I love the room yeah no no no no I know just options that we were discussing there there's physical activity classes that go on there and and um I'm not sure Jay could mention you you know it is used quite often now what the rental rates are I don't know it doesn't matter um I'd like to know more about what the insurance company says what the you know we we haven't played that all out is that all repaired now no we're we're waiting after this we're going to issue an RFP to repair both the rec center and downstairs okay what I would recommend though is anything electronic Anything Electric I don't know if it was before or not that it'd be elevated right um other than that didn't get one I don't think the electrical got water yeah any of the printers or computers or um any of that be elevated to a point that's reason most reasonable and um continue your discussion with the insurance company and the and the barrier people you know it's you know some of them work if this one didn't work Why didn't it so keep keep keep it as is yeah I agree I I think we should keep it as is you know and uh continue to make money on it and hopefully in the future we can uh bring in more different events you know it's a great room it's a beautiful room so I'm I'm inclined to say the same thing the other um items just the last item being the uh vehicles and Equipment um I think for at least one of the vehicles we did receive Andrew the insurance proceeds do you have a so Reed for the Chevy Equinox we received 13,860 and then we are waiting to receive payment on the street sweeper um believe that was uh we had an offer in acceptance for $1,054 for that Elgen street sweeper SO waiting to receive that insurance check on that one and then the cabota uh hoping I think to receive about 21,000 on the cabota but that's that's that one's still in the works so we got money on the Equinox 13,000 uh getting 191,000 for the Elgen street sweeper and looking to see what we'll get for the cabota I think at this point I think we're hoping for over 20 20,000 is so Andrew stated earlier we're submitting everything to our insurance has everything they will provide us all the the estimates for all of this we're just waiting to receive that they processed those that Andrew just mentioned but we're waiting for all of them including all the equipment that's listed on the last spreadsheet um and see where that goes and as Andrew stated whatever is not there are some deductibles excuse me on that our policy has so those deductibles we will submit for reimbursement from FEMA so just to restate that as well so again we um probably one related to infrastructure one item that we're still we're hoping we don't have anything significant some of our roads and streets um over time some are starting to waver are they I mean this the amount of water and sand on quite a few of them obviously has an impact but the impact is over time um so just in Casa you may hear we all may hear as we go forward hey this just showed up and it'll be we'll see how that all but we're keeping that obviously under review every street in our city particularly closer to the gulf to make sure that that obviously it gets addressed including the storm water um infrastructure we did have obviously some damage in a few areas but we are continuing to address that almost daily that we're on on site Robin um you brought up a very very good point um this uh Helen damaged uh in in a lot of cases the base for roadways could we maybe work with FEMA to get some reimbursement and correct fix those streets that might be yeah I mean we've I've mentioned it in both calls that we've had with our FEMA rep for the reimbursement part and I stated we have likely roadways they they will eventually come on site and take a look because right now we I mean I don't Megan we we don't really have anything significant right now that's been damaged in terms of a road or a street but it could be into the future I mean or I'll go ahead and no we we don't the only significant has been fixed and that was at the 132nd parking lot so they're aware I mean I included that in our in the meeting and the discussion of all the items that we will be submitting for reimbursement and I stated we we may have roads and streets going forward but if it has hasn't been damaged they cannot provide us any funding for see I see a lot of alligator skin cracks on a lot of the roads would was were they there prior to elen some I think quite a few of them were there likely are a few new ones we mean and we have the and we've been tracking some of those again there there's no significant issues currently but that doesn't mean we may not have some in six months a year two years down the road so you would be discussing this with the female individual see if they will that'd be wonderful comments I was just wondering there's no no common um like taking test cores or anything like that you know that's not common practice not common practice unless you're planning for a road project I just did eight test samples that on uh Baypoint so and that was done I believe that was done prior to Helen I would have to double check so if we wanted to redo those and see if there was any changes we could you could do a yeah that would the only other time we've done those is prior to a roadway project right something to think about we'll consider so I have another question um on the agenda we don't really have a specific line item to talk about hurricane damage and where we're at in the processes within the city so you had indicated this would be the time um my question is I know that we requested assistance from FEMA that would have come through the county and the state to assist our building department and for permitting and inspections and planning where are we at in getting help think we had today who Frank or who or I'm sorry Marcy's over here go ahead Marcy um yep so we did we had a meeting um we requested some assistance and we got a reply from a group called Workforce so this morning we met with four of their team members well five of their team members four of who will be starting helping with Building Inspections um and doing substantial damage on our commercial projects so we kind of did a big overview of what we need for them to do today they will be here tomorrow at 8: a.m and at that point in time we will have packages ready for them um to provide them information on the properties that we wouldd like them to start working on so they will be doing both inspections as well as substantial damage determinations so will they be going out um I know that we have we talked like four weeks ago about uh the SDS being performed by the building department for commercial businesses um and I'm I want to say that I'm not talking about Condominiums I'm speaking specifically of our businesses that are trying to reopen will they be going door Todo and just doing them are we waiting on someone to call in for a um permit you know for their their demo permit the reason I'm asking is because the the conversations I'm getting from the community is frustration um not only from homeowners but if we just take homeowners and we separate them from the businesses uh the businesses are frustrated because they are sitting waiting on their SD letter they're waiting on the next step they're waiting to understand what they need to do and even though we know what they need to do we sit in a very different situation we have a lot of information that we just we know because we're in it every day and the community does not have that information even though we do blast all this stuff over on Facebook and you can go on to the city website it's still very very difficult when you're the person sitting there that your job is to run a business your job is not all of this minutia trying to figure it out so my question is will these people finally get us moving in the direction of getting the SD Letters Out to the businesses so that they can writefully submit for their permit packages to be able to rebuild yes this will be proactive so what we're going to do is we're going to prioritize people who commercial projects that are already in the queue and again not referring to Condominiums but businesses like in John's p Village in along Gulf Boulevard so we'll start we'll prioritize prioritize the ones that have some permits in but if if they don't we are proactively going out to those businesses and trying to reach out so we are making that happen that's awesome so my second question then is going to be on the residential and residential I will group Condominiums into residential just for my own well-being because it makes it easier for me because that's where people live it's their homes even though some of the Condominiums are are considered all Condominiums are considered commercial property because they're Condominiums but for many people who live in our city that is their home it's where they live so for our homes I know that your I know that the planning department has been working crazy hours to get the all of the requirements of FEMA to be able to get this the um the substantial determination Letters Out how is that looking for you right now I I mean I've watched the numbers of the of the residentials I've had a lot of communication with people who live in the city as I'm sure everyone sitting up here has and the current frustration I'm getting and I think maybe it's a message I'm not sure I sent an email today on it and it's on the ACV appraisals so I've gotten quite a few people reach out over their ACV appraisals being rejected so if we could look at that and maybe look at the few that I got today and if anyone else has gotten that same concern and see what's the common denominator what what's what's missing because I feel like if you get the same feedback over and over it means that something's not getting translated correctly no ill intent from the city side or the resident side but I also feel like we sit here and we need we need to be reminded sometimes that as we sit here on the commission or as we are employees of the city we are here to serve the residents and remembering that when we get so busy and we get listening to so many things where people are frustrated and upset I think it can be easy to forget why we're here so I don't know I just want that ACV seems to be a big thing this week week that I've heard a lot on and so I'm thinking like I said there has to be just something that is getting missed in in Translation one way or the other if we could look at that and see um if that is the case and if not I could be wrong and maybe we can help those better understand so the appraisal issue is in conversation is Big the ACV appraisal is not one that appraisers are commonly used to they're used to doing the ones that are formed for your home mortgage um so the ACV approach for them has been it's been a little bit of a learning curve for for their industry so a class was held a few weeks ago and I sent uh Joe to that to that uh class he was the only um Municipal Employee there everybody else was appraisers so it was well attended and even after that we received several appraisals that you know he kind of took what he learned we also did create a checklist so we do ask people have your appraiser go line by line by line with this checklist and make sure it meets that so we did have some appraisal we have had a lot that come in and still are missing the mark and I did recommend to some of the appraisers the gentleman who taught the class is very available and I felt like there was a fundamental professional disconnect that I can't even speak to I just know it it's not being verbalized or shown in the appraisal like we're told we have to have it so I have Rec I've also encouraged them to do some peer review of themselves to maybe see okay from appraiser to appraiser speaking that language what is missing because there does seem to be a fundamental misunderstanding but I feel like it's po part of the professional learning curve I'm not saying that we're not going through the same thing as we review them but we are trying to be very consistent with every review and in lock step with the county and other municipalities and how they're reviewing it so I wonder is um because in communicating with other municipalities and I wonder if is is it possible maybe that other municipalities are accepting these appraisals because one of the things I'm hearing is well my appraiser is doing appraisals up and down the beach they're accepting them everywhere but madira so could it be that I mean that'll be the conversation probably offline when you look at those different addresses to see but could it be that they're accepting something that's not really FEMA approved it it would be my thought that as as each Community is going through the learning curve of the of accepting these appraisals that they they may be missing some components that we're catching or and and I'm not saying that you know again we are not perfect so we are you know and if if we're catching something and focusing on something that is what I would consider not an impact to the the valuation and should not be a FEMA issue then we would not we would not stop accepting that approach appraisal it's when it we feel like it violates directly what FEMA expects to see in the appraisal or because they said something and took into account sales values and stuff like that we immediately have to turn them away because the ACV is not based on local sales value your land value we've got somewhere they included the value of the pool and it's everything looked really good and all of a sudden they're like oh our pool is worth this and our fence is worth this like no that can't be in there um some even included architectural fees like you looked at it and everything looked really good but you're like why are architectural fees and I shouldn't be in there so it's things like that that we're catching and um but obviously we're open we're trying to do everything we can to expedite the process but within the rules by which you know we're told we have to play so would there be a possibility of I mean we have the permit hours where we have open hours for um the permit so that individuals can come in and and sit and talk with the permit department get assistance with the demo permits and I um my understanding is we're kind of switching that over now to helping people with their interior remodel permits pretty much everything's on the table now so where we are so if someone for instance submitted an appraisal for the third time and it was still wrong would it be reasonable to have that appraiser come sit or come in have a one-on-one or is that an unreasonable ask and what I'm trying to do is is I'm trying to sit in the chair of the resident who is not a developer who is not an appraiser and they are they are well aware that they need their ACV value to increase and they know that it will and they're caught in the Catch 22 right they're the they're the person someone else is doing the work and they're getting the city's refusing it the city's refusing it would there be maybe an opportunity to have a meeting maybe um does the building department look over the the building Department's not the one looking over the ACV are they no we're primarily the the that and we are because it's not technically our profession right so we are as good as what the you know the classes that we've gone through in the checklist that we're reading and you know Joe is truly taking a a great interest in understanding it so it's not he he gets the aspects of it if an appraiser is rejected by us a third time I would recommend the peer review I would recommend reaching out to the gentleman who taught class and said I am at a professional standstill with this because I think the answer that comes from that is going to be the most valuable one so we we did have an appraisal where we had had some back and forth I sent it to another municipality to say hey this is an example of what we're up against what are your thoughts on this appraisal and she tore it up and sent it right back and it's like no this is wrong here wrong there wrong there so it was a gut check so we are trying to do that to make sure we are being fair and reasonable um but the the appraisals are a learning curve for for the appra for the for the profession as well so maybe it's a um Case by case for me I'm just saying for me when I get the when I'm getting the the the calls and I'm wanting to help um and and guide people in the right direction it I'm going to send it'll be just a little bit more information needed to understand where they're really at and the peer review I think I would recommend the peer review and rest assured I do not want to touch a document any more than I absolutely have to so we're rejecting it and sending an email and if you see Joe's emails he literally goes number one and spells it out I mean his emails are a paragraph very succinct and I I'll be more than happy to share with you guys an example he is spending a lot of time so it would be much easier to accept them than it is to reject it so we would we would love for them to come through we've had had a few come through that fly right through and we've had two I think two I've met with two appraisers that have come in here who know we've I think we've accepted all of their appraisals from what they told us I don't know how many they've submitted so they're familiar with how how the process there are quite a few that are I think there are a few that are still learning yeah yes and there's no um the problem too with this with this ACV is the industry hasn't created a format for it like they have for the um the you know the mortgage ones so that's what's throwing them off too so they're trying to force a hybrid situation and it it just doesn't work so I have one more comment and then and I'll let somebody else talk um another feedback that I've gotten quite a bit of is is from residents who want to have some one-on-one time with the building department and I know that the in the past it's my opinion the opinion that I have based off my communications with the community that the building department is much more geared towards contractors and I think we've we've talked about this a little bit in how we're in a unique situation now where many residents are not going to necessarily H hire a GC to do their work because FEMA says they can spend $160,000 their work is150 by right by what FEMA charges out but they've only got $60,000 cash to do it and they can do all the work for 60,000 so they're going to do it themselves and there's a little frustration from the community on that and understanding UND I understand both sides completely but I thought wouldn't it be a wonderful unique idea if our building official did like coffee with the building official and maybe twice a week or once once a week I would think twice maybe three times from 4: to 6 so you catch people who don't work you might catch the people who when they get off work can come where they can just come in and have a casual conversation with our building official I think that's fine and we can certainly schedule that but I think you're getting into some level of detail that I don't think any homeowner unless they know Electrical Plumbing hbac they can't do the work themselves unless I'm I'm not talking about that I'm talking about when they're looking at putting in their permit applications I'm not talking about our building official giving advice I'm no I'm not talking about him giving that advice I'm talking about I got off the phone with someone today who said how do I know what to do for this a contractor would know what dollar amount what hours how to do this how to do that to put in the package I'm not talking about anyone here on staff directing an individual on how to install sheetrock or to do wiring I'm talking about the paperwork in a casual place where it's not where you can just have a conversation where people can just come in and have a conversation the other thing that I think it would do for the community is I mean we care and we're going to give you a couple hours you can come in sit down it's a roundt discussion my question might be the same question that raker needs or that you know who needs and by sitting and just talking we can help each other in the process of understanding how to do the package when I look at the package the package to me is very simple right but I've sat in a lot of meetings and I've gotten a lot of questions answered and I've gotten a lot of Education since the day after helain hit so I feel like I sit in a unique situation that I don't really I can't understand the Pains of a lot of residents because I understand what we are requiring having been I feel like gone to school and taught what it is right they don't have that and it's important to remember they don't have that and they're they're not looking to be electricians or plumbers they're looking to fill out the package completely so that when it's submitted it's submitted right and maybe ask asking a question of the building official along the way would be beneficial just my opinion or my input I would also say to with that I think one of the advantages even if a homeowner wasn't pulling their permit but they've had you know two electricians come in and quote the job or an hbac person come and quote it I also find people feel like you know is this really right do I really have to do this for the fla building code do I have to replace this or do that so even answering some homeowner questions that they're being told by contractors just to kind of confirm and gut check what they really have to do versus what maybe they're being sold on doing I think those two I've gotten a lot of questions like that where I think people just want a comfort level that they're making the right decision and headed in the right direction with those repairs and with you know I I mean I think that that would be the great a great opportunity for people to be able to get that help my only fear is that there's only so many hours in the day and these guys are overworked as it is so if you carve out a two or three hour period two or or three times a week and nobody shows up you're still need to be there um is wouldn't it be easier to have a dedicated email address you can get your answers question no that no I I can tell you right now emails and phone calls don't get answered in they get answered but not not time not in a timely fashion for I mean they get hundreds of emails let me go back the original part of this discussion was you're getting some help and is that going to allow you to free up any time to be able to do something like that and the follow-up question to that is how long do you get this help because if you're going to have so many people doing construction projects whether they're repairs or rebuilds this is not a short-term thing the building department is is going to be under staff for multiple years so I don't know if this help is a is a 30-day or a or a three-year period or if it's a finite period as long as you need it you have it and how long female will pay for it if at all um is it just another expense do we need to look at hiring anyone you know these are the things that just pop in my mind so the help comes through us through fdm so they're already a vetted source and they will be reimbursed we will get them um we're fortunate now because Manatee County apparently is wrapping up some stuff so the people were're getting are coming off the work that they were already doing so the four people we got today they'll stick with us as long as we can keep them busy and have work for them to do um they're also committing to giving us two cost estimate reviewers as well as to appraisal professional appraisal reviews which is one of the things I wanted to mention as well so that process may be a little easier too if we have somebody on this side who can talk that language with the appraisers who were rejecting their appraisals so it is my understanding they will be available to us until such time as as we're we're we're determined we don't need them well and we did have I mean Once Upon I don't know what happened but we did have a budget line for a second building official Junior I don't know what I don't remember what it was but I don't think there's any better time than now to fill that position because it is a position that was intended to be longterm which gives us a a second person to be able to to do whatever is needed for the community mayor if if we go go back to to your concern with the citizens and the knowledge that they need to gain uh would it make sense to and I've and I've discussed it with discussed this with some residents would it make sense to create a task force committee out of local res residents in other words get a group of or Community people to to be a part of a taskforce committee where they can meet with the city meet with the building official gather ideas and workshop those with other residents educate the other folks um if I mean could we arrange that and if if that could be arrang I'd be willing to you know work with that particular task force committee to to have meetings with them to discuss their concerns and and bring any issues back to this board I'm not sure how that would work Robin how would that I think you would be the ones we could advertise and then ask people and then they'd come in here you would appoint similar to uh one of the the planning or the Civil Service Commission but maybe not to that extent I don't I know before this before the hurricane we had scheduled I had sat down with Robin and City staff and we had scheduled um monthly meetings for that I was going to have outside of City Hall to be able to sit down with residents and talk openly about different topics and every meeting their meetings were scheduled for coffee lunch happy hour outside so not outside outside but outside of City Hall so that it would be a more comfortable atmosphere where people would feel more um more apt to speak freely about how they feel and I would love to do that we canceled all of them because helain and it just did not seem like a good um time to try to bring people together um we briefly had discussed starting it in January because January is hopefully we will turn a new Leaf when the new year comes and people will really be headed down the road of healing permits being issued SD letters being done um I mean I don't know if that would be a way to get that started and see what that looks like for people coming and having the conversations and where their thoughts are at and then I have I have asked about three residents to come to our next uh 4:00 or thereafter meeting to express ideas and opinions and uh see if we can create this particular committee maybe out of 10 people yeah and then extrapolate that to the rest of the residents and you know give them some feedback let them know that we really care and we want to do whatever it takes to you know help with the permitting situation I think they're all going to see the permit start rolling I sure hope so yeah congratulations on the new hires coming in also the last meeting we talked about uh communication with the residents and you are working on um a program to help do that um with the new people coming in are you going to assign them to certain districts like say people in my district uh a few of them are still waiting you know after six weeks are you going to be able to assign the new people or the new employees to like say District three this week District Four that the next week or something like that is that how it's going to go so the um individuals that we' met with today from um the subc Consulting team will do the building inspections as scheduled so whatever building inspections are scheduled for permits that are in the queue those will be going through the building department and then um the other ones will be doing the substantial damage we'll be kind of balancing them between doing the substantial damage estimates on the properties the notification of determinations are still coming in and and going out so that this team right now would not be um they can help with the tool and they can help with doing the the field inspections but issuing the determination to the public or to the residents and owners right now is not part of that but with them on board doing what they're doing it'll free our time up more to start getting those out the door and cue seeing the results that we have great job fantastic I can give some numbers and stuff but if you guys want to know about the permits and stuff so I don't know when when's it good time or how you guys want to do that so yeah no right now now it's good okay so the for for the substantial determination notifications the way the process has gone is um after the storm hit and we did our our you know windshield review we went from that into substantial damage estimating we were told at that point in time that we would be getting report um for that through a subc consultant not knowing for sure when that help was going to arrive and how it was going to come we immediately hit the ground and started doing our own so people started pulling interior demo permits we were doing inspections people were pulling the permits and uploading the pictures in Li of inspections so we were able to start getting out those determinations tile Basin did show up and start doing the field work once they did that we pulled our staff in and we started doing the tool review and everything like that up until Friday of last week we had only received um the official results of roughly 59 properties as of this past Friday the new distribution from Title Basin included roughly 627 properties and that came in on Friday so of those 20 this is rough data so this is data that I still have to go through in QC and then release it so there's still a process to be had but of those 258 properties they had is not substantially damaged so the other 369 were determined substantially damaged what I do once I get that Excel spreadsheet is I divide it into two tabs I have the not substantially damaged in one substantially damaged in other I come up I've come up with my own QC process of how how I look at them and then I distribute those I split them up to the team to start qcing the data in a little more detail then we start issuing the notifications as soon as possible so of the 600 27 properties we received information on 300 roughly 305 of them do not even have permits in the system so those letters the termination letters will start going out later this week but my priority right now is the folks who do have permits in and are actively waiting on that so the people who don't of the 305 properties those will get kicked over and they will be notified but we then I toggle back over to who has permits so with that there was 32 two properties remaining um of those we're prepared to send out 66 substantial damage letters so those will be going out and probably all 66 people should be notified by Saturday if you're in that group um we had 77 not substantial damage determinations and if you were not substantially damaged you've already been notified and that's just from Friday so we were able to get out 77 notifications based on the information we received last Friday and those should have gone out those probably out by this past past Wednesday yesterday or Tuesday sorry Tuesday they would have already been out um and of that data set5 of the properties had already been previously notified by us so 105 of those properties we had already reviewed and sent the notifications out because we were at we were doing our own SDS had we waited those 105 properties would still be in the queue to be getting their information so we were able to already have notified those Property Owners much earlier than had we just waited for the subc consultant data so the proactiveness that we did definitely has paid off a lot there's roughly 74 properties that the numbers I just gave you don't account for those are numbers that I am having to review in a little more detail um to kind of you know sus out any of the data the data coming in is is not perfect um they're handling a significant amount of data and it's touched a lot so it goes into a tool comes out as an Excel then it's qced put back into a tool if anything needs change then kicked back out I won't bore you with it but it is one of the it's it's um it's a lot of data and it's a lot to handle um I just ask people we are working as fast and as efficient as we possibly can um we are fighting to get you back into your home we're fighting to do it correctly because I don't want to be fighting in two and a half years for you to be keeping your home so we have to do it right we do it now it is long it is it is tedious um we are constantly growing and figuring how how we can communicate and get get the information out quicker better but we are getting in interior demo permits which is great we have staff ready to help with that and we're also going to look towards creating like work labs for homeowners who are doing their own permits where you come in with your computer or a computer we have prepared for you and we will sit down we Will Proctor it people can come in and start we'll set up some time frames um so that's the next thing we're going to be doing is kind of setting up a permit worklab for people who need help for home owners who are trying to do it themselves trying to figure out Macy can I uh Marcy I'm sorry can I ask you a question um do you um brainstorm our the city's ideas with some of the other cities to see how they are doing this yes so we have um we have a few meetings that we go through the uh pcclb has been hosting a meeting and that includes building officials and cfms so we have that meeting typically once every two weeks sometimes 3 weeks may go by we also have a a municipal meeting for the Title Basin data that we're all receiving so we have a municipal meeting where we're all on that um and we also did pre earlier on have um just some of the municipal meetings so everything the cities are doing we are all pretty much in we're communicating on how we're doing it we're taking ideas from each other um there's definitely a lot of a lot of sharing there for sure yeah we get calls all the time like hey I heard you guys are you know doing this or doing that is this how you're doing it so yeah we're definitely willing to learn and grow and and see what other communities are doing so we're keeping our finger on the pulse of that for sure I would just like to say thank you Marcy you're doing a great job app that you doing thank you very much any so if the commission doesn't have any other questions I want to open it up for public comment so do we have any public comment on the items we have discussed yeah I'm here for the jetty I'm here for the jetty um have to say a lot of my comments are unnecessary at this point uh based on what I heard earlier and I want to thank the board and the mayor for um having this format where people can come up and provide comments I genuinely genuinely appreciate that and sitting here today for the first time it was obvious to me um that you all take serving the public very serious and I I really appreciate that um there's just a couple of things I wanted to touch on briefly uh that did that did come up um the issue of safety I understand there there must have been a a slip trip fall issue in in the past um the safety issue on the jetty is complicated it's um it's easy to say well let's eliminate the slip trip fall Hazard we won't let people out there but it's a little more complicated than that because um obviously I like to fish at the jetty and this year alone I helped pull five beachgoers out of the water that current rips around the point of that Jetty in a very Fierce way and I myself assisted in removing five people on the stress off the end of The Jetty so fishermen and tourists um we all talk about fishing it's a heavy tourism component to that Jetty too uh people are out there all the time looking at the Dolphins looking at the manatees um and that's I think an economic draw for the area uh as well as the fishermen but fishermen and tourists provide sort of a layer of safety to beachgoers that do get into distress uh in that area and and you know as a fisherman I know that you know if we're not allowed on the jetty I've done it already I fish next to the jetty um and from my perspective fishing next to the jetty in that Swift Current in these winter months is more treacherous than fishing on the J um and it sounds like we've got a good good path forward so I'm real happy real happy to hear that um I'm glad that um you know we're taking this expedited approach to getting fisherman back out there because a pre-application meeting with the core I've done Co projects with the core that's uh mayor you're right on Target that is a very long process uh that's years away before we get a before we get a project uh designed and permited and constructed that's years out so I'm very pleased with the uh with with the direction that that we're going now and I I think you know you all know this but I'm going to say it anyway um there's a big economic component to the community um for fishing and tourism um that area is a big draw there's people out there all the time um I fish in a lot of places it's an area that appears to me to be pretty well kept um and that's probably a combination of fishermen that care uh and tourists that care as well as City activi that happen out there um anyway uh thanks again for giving me the opportunity to comment really pleased with today's meeting that's unusual uh for me to be pleased at a public hearing so uh thank you all thank you very much anyone else hello my name is Christina Pascuzzi you can move the mic down if you there you go thank you and um my address is in um West parsley and um first of all I'd like to speak to uh this gentleman here I'm not going to pronounce your last name of butr I'm just going to refer to you as a man with a nice hair and um I thought it was brilliant um two things you mentioned uh the task force I think that's a great idea as a a resident it would be really helpful to have other residents asking questions and you know we all talk that' be very helpful but one thing I would love the task force to really recognize is there's 305 properties that can't be lived in right now and most of us are going to do the right thing and knock our homes down so you have so many homes that may be going to come down maybe the task force could do a discount on the destruction of these homes that have to come down as an incentive for us to do the right thing because the next flood's just going to take them again so um I liked how you said are you talking to other people other um municipalities that have gone through through this right why should we reinvent the wheel X beg borrow and steal and that could refer to people as well maybe temporary so thank you very much great hair great recommendations thank you all for all you're doing easier name easier way to pronounce my name would be Moses uh my name is Alex Peterson I uh live at 8041 sailboat key St Pete Beach um I'm here today representing the Anglers of uh Tampa Bay Area um I'm a retired military guy 23 years in the Army um have a strong strong passionate for fishing and I currently am the chapter president for penel County uh uh salt strong uh fishing club which represents over about 500 members just in penel County but I also represent probably over 3,000 fishermen anglers in the whole Tampa Bay area which is part of our club and and and um all these members all these Anglers kind of know what's going on over here I mean they and the reason why is because they they frequently fish here and um so a lot of the things that I was going to talk to you today I must thank Mayor Brooks and uh the commission for agreeing to do some of the expedited things like the gentleman was talking before um we we really do appreciate you know everything you guys do and um I guess one question that came up um you know one of the things I was going to talk about was you know fish at your own risk I understand that that's probably not the the way to go even though there is a presumption of uh of risk there I'm assuming but maybe that's not the right approach and I appreciate you bring that up um because that was one of the things we were gonna ask you guys to do but that was M very much uh clarified um so we want to take a moment again to thank you for uh you know your passionate involvement in uh working a uh a solution for this issue uh your dedication and finding a resolution for the community is greatly appreciated and we fully support your efforts in uh trying to reopen access to the jetty for the benefit of the residents and and visitors who rely on it and we hope the rest of the commission will support this effort um thank you for your attention in this matter we trust that the commissioner's leadership will find a path forward that addresses these concerns while preserving the Beloved tradition of John's Pass jetti um as as the um representative of the fishing community and along with uh Captain Dylan hubard we're available for any further questions you may have about our concerns and um you know fishing for many of us is a lifestyle you know we some of you guys talked about that and uh you know we want to have that that that ability that right to be able to fish so we thank you very much for your time thank you thank you and thank you for your service also thank you thank you Commissioners and mayor for for putting us together with this uh rebuild of the side walk out there and the FMA or whoever else uh is going to be involved as far as permitting and that goes it may be a long long you know over overreactive uh timing but is there a possibility that um that Rubble that's created out there now could be uh leveled out in some way and poured over top of it uh without too much too much more to say about it I don't I don't know but um maybe that's maybe that's a way to go where you won't have to remove the concrete so um I just Ju Just just a thought I've been in construction most of my life I'm retired firefighter and uh I'm also a combat vet that U that came back from Vietnam so um you had mentioned that there is um there is a a process that you guys have to go through for the next meeting is the next meeting a month from now or is it uh is it a week from now it's as soon as this one is over pardon me it is as soon as this one is over oh it's wonderful okay wonderful that's that's an answer we're looking for 11 minutes thanks very much appreciate it thank you very much thank you for your service also uh Dan Steves uh 9334 87 AV Seminal Florida um first of all if y'all wait for the core it's going to be like six or seven years just like Pastor girl so don't do that um you need to do something immediately um anyway Skyway Bridge pass of Grill blinds pass Sunset breach tier verie Indian Shores Indian Rocks Treasure Island John's Pass Plus many or many other places all places that I can and have fish from rocks over the last 30 years of my fishing in this area never once have I complained about a scrape scratch bruise a cut a fall or about rocks being in the way of fishing but on the other hand I've been more than happy and blessed with the great fishing story or even just a great time with good friends or by myself enjoying the peace and wonderful nature that we offer here it's a travesty that the walkway on the jetty was destroyed by one person with no oversight when it could have just been repaired in the first place saving tons of money and resources obviously we need plenty of all of that right now right um it's an even bigger travesty that we can't take advantage of God's gift and our right to be able to go fishing off the jetty so many people come here besides to fish but just to decompress de-stress and to really find what makes them truly happy in life by taking away a simple walkway you've ruined a lot of people people's lives and on top of it we're now getting criminally trespassed for just trying to fish in an area that we've been fishing for forever put up a sign make a note leave the people alone or all of the above think about how many vacationers come here just to just so their family could shop have ice cream fish The Jetty and how disappointing it's going to be when instead they go home with a trespassing citation and a bad taste in their mouth welcome to mad beach I'm disappointed in the way this was handled I hope that it comes to a quick resolution and that we all able to enjoy this wonderful area in life that we all love and live thank you for the time thank you very much do we have any additional comments uh Robin stack 720 G Sunset Cove some of you guys may recognize me a lot of you don't either way here's the problem the commission is not doing your jobs you guys aren't doing your jobs your jobs are to make sure the city manager does what you want that's why you're here you're us you are the people the people don't want the city manager to make decisions independently of the people simple if you guys were doing your job you tell him to do his if you can't do that you'd have to replace it that's I'm over that issue bigger issue the agenda really how come the building Department's not on the agenda we're meeting what once a month why don't we make the building department like five or six times its size hire subcontractors bring in help obviously they're overwhelmed don't be overwhelmed step up to the plate do something city manager should have come to you and said hey we need to increase the budget immediately not whenever one more topic allow outside inspectors allow people to come in they're qualified to tell me if my Plumbing's hot on the left you get the rest we don't need inspections to put a cabinet in we don't so let's get off the minua and get on with the real life thank you have a nice day thank you do we have any further public comment hi my name is Mary Jane lockart and um we uh we have a couple of condos down on level floor and I've been hearing from a lot of people up and down uh Gulf Boulevard that why are the um restaurants being open quicker than other businesses like most Airbnb people BRBO people that that is also a business so people are paying their way but they're not getting paid attention to so that's why I wanted to find out why is there is any of the condos being accounted for because you hear a lot of people residentially with single family homes being helped but not condos in specific buildings that are all ground floor units so that was my question and is there any feedback on the SD letters square footage of the condos you know we're all waiting for that and we are getting zero and it's been three months does anybody have any answers so we don't typically answer so the public comment is for comment and if you want um someone to reach back out to you if you fill out the comment card and I'll reach back out to you because I have your phone number okay and I can share some information with you after okay but thank you all for what you do thank you hi my name is Greg rizio and you guys pretty much have answered all my questions so I only have one other question which when they do redo John's Pass like the last time when they went up and put the new handrail in whoever had done that were were not qualified and it was unsafe from the beginning when they put it in uh I was a carpenter my whole life and I've set lots of handrails and have done a lot of commercial and residential work my only concern is whoever you guys get to do the work hopefully they'll be qualified to put in the proper handrail and make it you know strong enough where it will be safe that was the issue before the Hurricanes came when it sat and they had it all blocked off and everybody's going to fish it regardless no matter what they'll walk around the Rocks it's just going to happen because that's what everybody I mean a lot of people go there for is efficient but my only concern is whoever you get to do the work hopefully this time somebody will oversee the qualifications of them and make sure they install things properly because small things they put in tap cons you know for the rails which they should have it doesn't hold in a million years they should have had drop in anchors and after the first day they put that rail in one of the guys that fishes with us is like 260 lbs he literally could have pushed the handrail over so I mean this is an old issue but you know it just would have never lasted which it didn't so whoever rebuilds it the next time and puts the handrails on hopefully they're going to use the strong enough aluminum and put in the right anchors and everything so this time it will hold up and stay and be safe but that would be my only concern you guys have answered the rest of my questions already and I'm glad you're going to you know fill it in and make it right for the fisherman and rebuild it because that was everybody's concern it's that's the topic everywhere you know everybody talks about and a lot of people were pretty upset about it and it is you know people are used to coming here and going down there for the sunset all the time you know because I fish down there several evenings in the mornings and uh I believe it is a very nice tourist uh place for people to go go to John's Pass I mean every night in the summertime you know you get thousands of people walk down for the sunset so I think it'd be very beneficial to rebuild it keep it for the fishermen and the tourists and then everybody's happy and once you get your parking lots fixed up then you'll start bringing your money back in which should help a lot but I just want to say thank you for everything and just had that one comment you're welcome thank you do we have any additional hi my name is teria cross I live 521 Crystal Drive and I just want to say thank you to you all for all the hard work um I am displaced from the storm but the thing of it is for me and I represent all angl fishing is therapy for me as well it's not just going out there to see what what kind of fish or how big of a fish I can get so when I saw that you know I'm like oh my gosh but my thing as far as safety I make a decision to go down on the Rocks if I catch a big snook I'm not going to try to swing it up over those rocks I immediately go down there so that's my decision to go down on those rocks and I'm sure I don't there's not anyone that's going to be around to say hey do you mind if I go down on those rocks near the water to go and get that fish because I don't want to change is losing that fish um as far as the the tripping I don't know if that the the person tripped you know on the sidewalk or tripped in the Rocks but at one point I've been here four years I used to see where you all did a red line or some color line to let the people know that there was an unsafe part of that sidewalk but I did notice that it went away as well so I don't know if that's why it occurred or what but as far far as as as fishing um I just like the gentleman behind me I can't tell you how many people that I have pulled out of the water I got with Chief Delk and we beat the pavement to get those signs up and also the um the tube because I have a family as well and risking my life to go out there I'll do it but what is it with me just going on the Rocks the fish I'm putting my life in danger to save a stranger so but again thank you all thank you do we have any additional public comment with no additional public comment we will move on to the next item on the agenda which is the City attorney resolution 20248 opt out of live local Act thank you mayor I'm going to go and read this resolution by title only this is a resolution 2024 d08 a resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the city of Mader Beach Florida opting out of providing the 80 to 120% Ami missing middle property check exemption to developments that would otherwise qualify pursuant to House Bill 770 I'm sorry 7073 and providing for an effective date hereof the uh memorandum that's attached to the resolution uh sets forth the thought process behind adopting this resolution the bottom line is is that couple of years ago the florid legislature adopted the live local act wherein it created a new affordable housing tax exemption for developments that have 71 or more affordable units to households that earn up to 120% of the area medium income last year's legislative session um granted taxing authorities such as the city of Madera Beach to opt out from providing the this tax exemption by opting out of the tax exemption you keep those tax dollars uh here in the city of madira Beach and you don't wave them for developers um in addition to that you should note that there is nothing in the statute that provides that the tax savings that the developer is going to receive is going to be uh passed down to the tenants or the renters of the properties uh where the exemption has been provided so um City staff is asking that the resolution be placed on the agenda and be approved to keep those tax dollars here in the city of madira Beach by opting out of the exemption any comments commission are tax dollars the only negative impact on the city that's that's the main reason right because we want to save uh Revenue that's correct you want to save the revenue keep it here within the city and more than likely this wouldn't really apply to you you probably wouldn't have a development of 71 units of affordable housing here in the city so it'll Pro it would probably never occur anyhow but but adopting the resolution protects those tax dollars keeps it in the city and and there is a time commitment we have to do it this month and we have to provide it to the property um property appraiser by January 1 and so that's why it's on the meeting now um so that we can make sure that it happens that was my that was my thought I saw it I thought that where where would that go what's the likelihood that we would have something like that anyway I don't think um I know that I had a lengthy conversation with Marcy about um the possibility of building affordable housing in Madar Beach like you know workhouse Workforce housing and what I got out of the conversation was that we really don't have the density for it so being able to I mean I think it would be wonderful personally if we could find a place to build an apartment building that would be not affordable housing but housing that is Affordable for workers and for people who who want to live here and work here or just live here but there because of the density rules with pelis County it it's virtually impossible so any comments no comments do we have any public comment with no public comment we will move on to the next item on the agenda which is the city manager City Web Internet site we currently have a company called proud city that is the maintenance and of our website the content is currently managed by various departments out of my office the marina Recreation Public Works the clerk Etc um any desire from the commission really discussion as to whether you would want uh a change in the processes or a different looking website however you would like to really a discussion on some direction on how you would like if any changes to the website or the processes related with the city's website any comments I um I would like to make a recommendation to look into our website I don't think it's um development friendly um there are some areas that we could possibly modify and correct um right now if you try to look for your typical code generally you go to munic code to to get zoning data but if you go on a website you really cannot find it sort of alludes to it but once you follow you you just cannot figure out your zoning regulations that's just one item but uh I would love to just uh look at the whole website and um update it to today's currence and as much as possible uh mayor as a broad general statement I don't find the website to be uh overly intuitive uh so I wouldn't mind exploring options that's that's my general feeling about it my opinion is we we have a lot on our plate right now and this the I think the website is just fine personally I don't think we need another to-do item uh right now we want to bring this up again next year possibly talk about it everything can evolve but um I think the city staff is working a lot of hours and and um I think the we current website is is reasonable so I think that um my feedback from the community has been and helain was boy if you have a crack have a couple hurricanes to show you where they're at where you need to make some changes and the one thing that I heard from the very beginning was that our information delivery was very very problematic um part of it it appears to me as the website clearly it's not userfriendly you it's it is not easy for someone to go on and determine what they're looking for anything code related or city Charter any of that's it's all on munic code and munic code is not the most user friendly even for professionals to use but most especially for the common person or the the ordinary resident and I feel like we could use an update on our website I'm not sure what that is but I would like to see us explore it I also think that we need to take a hard look and a hard consideration into how we deliver information to the community um I took phone calls I sat with people and listened to people talk about the information that they received and I mean I could I could make you a laundry list of things that residents were dying and hungry to get and couldn't find find and when I would bring it up I would get told oh it's there okay well if I can't find it how's a resident going to find it and so one of the things that I think we should consider is there was a time when we had a information officer one Central person who did all of our information out to the city and the benefit that I think and I don't know that that is something we can do I don't know what that would cost I don't have any idea but just as as to think when you've got three or four different people who are inputting into the website everyone is doing it their own way there's no common theme there's no um it's not it's not webbed together so everybody does it different right so and everybody's doing I'm not saying that anybody is doing it bad but there's no consistency and when you need to get information out to a resident there I can do information you can do information and then there's the professional that that is what they do for a living is deliver information and I mean from how you the verbiage you use the words you put out there that offend people or don't to the way that you would stack it on a website to the way that you would put it on social media and the other thing is social media is really good for a lot of people but we have many many residents who live in this city who do not do social media they are pen and paper they want a newsletter they want a publication they're not going to get on Facebook they're not going to get on the internet and and go to our website we got that with uh the permit process was a great example that residents early on were coming in being told to get on the internet they don't use the internet so we did paper we went out and we the city went out and um taped information to people's doors because that's how sometimes you deliver information so I'd like to see us uh do some research and look into maybe going back to a paper publication like we did years ago and getting information out to Residents quarterly and there was a time when we did a quarterly little it was like a little magazine newsletter and maybe that's something the city could produce and not I'm not sure but um we really need to be more mindful of the residents and how we deliver them their information and getting a better means of delivering that and whether that is with a information officer um a new website I'd like to have some information brought back to the commission on that yeah I'm definitely not against looking at other possible different Alternatives um as long as it's cost effective for the city and um we can explore other options I'm not against that at all websites are curb appeal it's our image when somebody from Africa opens a website and they see what they see they can um judge us you want to be a for forwarded City and um I don't think the staff has to spend a whole lot of time I think we would have to get Consultants um to commissioner Kerr's Point um I don't think it'll take much time from the staff um all these things are done by Consultants to set up a web page and you know do what should be done correctly if I can rebut revenues are down revenues are down expenses are high we have a lot on our plate I say we revisit this in a in a year we don't in my opinion I understand I know exactly what you're saying it is your front door it is your um your that's the way a lot of PE Outsiders would would see but you know the the discussion is getting is more about getting information the the residents I know it's a marketing tool but it's a useful tool for uh the residents I think it achieves all that it needs and it needs to at this point if there's a question there's always pick up the phone or come in the city hall we're only two miles long and a small wide so um it again it's it's something that's not in the budget right now we have we we all voted um to suspend uh permits our our like I said our revenues are going to be down for at least the next year and our expenses are going to be up we don't need something else on the table that's my humble opinion I'm not necessarily talking about spending the money but I would like the research I I mean I would like I'd like for us to understand what it would cost to have that communication person is that someone who already works for the city that can be put into that role we can have a dedicated person to that what does that look like I I don't know but I think it warrants us at least understanding what that is and again that's coming out of just the sheer volume of people who didn't get good information after the storm and if we don't learn from that then we're going to do it all over again the next storm and it was on it was on no one's fault we just we're not we're not set up for it we need to learn from it and be better the next time and the only way I think we can do that is to start doing the work on seeing what that looks like to make a change just do some quick research and bring it back to you yes I think on the topic which is kind of off base I hope that we're taking notes on what on our experience here and be able to put together at a future date you know this is our Emergency Management plan if we probably have something in that sort but I'm but we've learned a lot I would expect from this storm being in a 100e storm so that we're ahead of the curb as far as you know okay that the Hurricane's coming this is this is this is where we're going we're going to be shut down no one's going to be able to cross the bridge for three days expect it you know and from there on out if we there's so much we could have learned yeah if only we knew we didn't even know when it was going to no I understand we don't control it but to be prepared and that you know if it's anything like just to have some sort of manual to answer many of the questions people have now because we've gone through it and while it's fresh I agree with you commissioner Kerr I I have said previously and I believe strongly that um we should be having a workshop specifically dedicated to the residents and what their pains were because I have a laundry list of things that that I think we could have done better but we didn't know we had nobody could have imagined no one would have imagined that we were going to be flooded to the extent we were flooded I mean I stood on my I stood at my house and couldn't believe the water it that it was coming in like it came in so I think that I think that it would be good for us to set something up and get community input see what people you know what was your experience what did that look like for you what could have been better for you so that the next time we do have those FAQs we do have that understanding so that we're prepared and the community is prepared and then hope that it never happens right I agree always begins with evacuate when you're told to evacuate but we'll be doing that for hundreds of years oh until we may not be on the island anymore do we have any public comment can you come up to the mic thank you all Michael juding I'm a resident um just the comments made about the bridge being open and that's a very simple change and as far as Costco you could have a high school student do this who would do it as a senior project and volunteer so I don't think it would cost that much money I think you just need someone that would give it oversight you could turn it over to a group that would take care of this sort of thing um also placing items on Facebook is not very secure it would be very easy to make an imposter account put out bad information so thank you very much do we have any additional comment yes ma'am Jan stack 728 Sunset code I talked to a lot of our neighbors and everybody's in the same position we don't know what to do we've we've gone and gotten appraisers we've done all these things we've tried to fill out the MGO program then we told to go into the M Beach program we went there this morning and everything is oh it's not available it's not available it's not available it's not available we've got real problems people my husband we took care of our house being mitigated and stuff but that's still happening people are still trying to get their homes mitigated they're trying to figure out what they're supposed to do who to go to the only person that's com backed me for anything was a lady named Betty and that's because I was asked for an elevation certificate and she got right back to me since the only one that I've ever spoken to so far that's done anything to help the neighbors and we're all screwed right now it's got to be handled in a better more effective way if it means going from you people going from house to house to house to ask people what to do thank you thank you do you have any additional comment please sir come on up come up yes good afternoon my name is Mike bchi I reside at 445 137 fabric Circle and I agree with this lady just said first of all I want to compliment the lady that works inside there she finally got me squared away on what to do and how to do it but like you said earlier everybody I believe in keeping it simple okay step by step my FEMA time if FEMA didn't put me up up I'd be living on a street and I took took time out from this meeting went down to 140 where sweep brunette is and rode back there and counted the hundreds of houses that are just sitting there nothing being done we need to step it up and get the people their permits so they could start them o start fixing up their places and move back in we need it done somebody has to take the B out of horns thank you thank you you have any additional comment hello I'm Stephanie Jing I live on 148th Avenue and that was my husband over there we're not divorced we just came in separate from so um I think I'd like to just mention that the idea that this was that the most predictable thing that could happen is absurd um we're asked to evacuate multiple times a year and we do it um the fact that this time what they said was going to happen happened to sit here and act like you just it just happened it was such a surprise it's not a surprise the fact that there was not someone who was well-versed in coastal flooding emergency and fame of compliance prior to this event so that the missteps the lack of communication and all the fail safes that you guys discovered right when you put pressure on the system is unacceptable right so moving forward I understand there's a lot of things that we've learned I think we as residents have learned a lot of things what I would like to understand is what are the current benchmarks the Strategic benchmarks that you all have set for the remainder of Q4 what are you anticipating and what are the benchmarks and timelines for overall success in q1 through Q2 because I can tell you this you have people in a holding pattern and 60 days is a very different experience when it's the person experiencing it and I think you can all appreciate that and I don't think anyone is callous about it but I haven't seen or heard and that's why I'm here today um I haven't seen or heard any action plan with again strategic objectives and benchmarked timelines for the next six and a half months and I'd like you to explain to me what those are um and how you're planning on achieving them thank you thank you do we have any additional comments with no additional comments there's one more come on up um Bob Bell 13301 Golf Lane um some of the ideas you guys had I think were great um I'm just kind of rehashing some of it but maybe um put a little spin on it when I used to work at the largest um payroll company in the world brokerage I handled Stock Exchange I did it Disaster Recovery one of the things we had that you guys have touched on are we we call them run bus I created a lot of them I think you guys are going to have a lot of that data now you have Consultants youve probably given them step by step um I just really hope that you start to Cate all that and start to put it together into a run book in addition to what the mayor was talking about as far as Communications and what have you one of the biggest things that we did in our disasters and um we had predefined escalation um urgencies severities and based upon that we provided updates whether it was every hour four hours day whatever so one of the things that just kind of hit me as we're talking about some of this and people are talking about hey the bridge this that the other you know if we are evacuated we have a lot of information at our hands do we instead of everybody wondering when is the sheriff going to let us in or things along those lines we have the ability to communicate with most of our um residents some of them are out some of them are calling back if we use some of that um the technology we have to communicate that out by having standards in how we communicate whether it's a smaller thing where where there's I don't know water outage on a street or something along those lines just a little more consistency along those lines and it's document it and we used software that forced us to you know follow those um guid lines we develop I just think it would be helpful so thank you thank you do we have any additional comment oh you already commented and technically speaking I don't want to break the rules because then I would have to break it for everyone with no further comment I would like to make a comment for the commission's benefit um I have sent and requested a lot of information from City staff on numbers statistics what we've done and lots of things to try to understand what we're getting done in a day how many hours are the employees working what Department's working what hours um how many permits are being issued how many SDS are being done how many letters are going out how many and all of this information I've I've sent multiple multiple emails I've frustrated I'm certain I have frustrated Robin I have frustrated City staff in asking the questions and here's what I know the software that we have although it may be good software it does not offer that information easily so it is something that I believe will need to be addressed because if you're going to understand what you're doing and how efficient you are moving forward Ward you need software that will allow you to get those Matrix and to understand who's doing the work where's it coming from how's it getting out you know are we processing efficiently are we giving out the information and currently the city does not have software that does that um I I had a whole bunch of things that I asked for because I wanted to be able to speak to it at this meeting because I knew it would matter to the residents to understand that data but it doesn't come easy so someone So eventually I'll get an answer to the the questions I asked and I'll get to share them and I'll probably share them on social media so no one will see it but but um my my point is just so that the commission understands that when we do get those frustrations from the residents and wanting to understand that data that data dump it isn't something easily gotten by the by the staff to be able to provide to us so to put push that forward and ask them for more and more and more means that someone's going to have to stop what they're doing to be able to collate that information and dig it out and provide it although I want it I want them to get permits out more so I'm hopeful that when we get to the other side of the permits we'll be able to retrospectively look back on that data and see where we really needs to to make those adjustments but currently it is of my opinion and I think shared by many the most important thing in our city is getting permits out so that our residents can get back in their homes and I'll say it again I say it all the time people just want to go home it is all anybody wants so I just wanted to say that because I wasn't certain if if the commission knew that that data is not super easy to get it's pretty um timec consuming so we will move on to the next on our agenda is Community Development rebuilding madira Beach presentation and we have Justin Keller Cody Stewart and Rafal kage to give a presentation on rebuilding Madera Beach they're with Advanced engineering and design sorry and I I just want to say as I get started here um this is exactly the future that we've been planning for and this is well in the works before the storm ever came when it comes to coastal flooding and what we're headed into so this is exactly why this firm is here to talk about the study that they've been doing where they're at with that and what everything looks like so thank you for the introduction so here we are today to talk about rebuilding madira Beach and as we were introduced my name is Cody Stewart and I'm here with Justin Keller and Raph Kai from Advanced engineering and design so why are we here today sorry second slide so we are here for three reasons the city is already susceptible to title flooding and conditions are only expected to worsen that's part of what we're here to talk about we're also going to talk uh talk about the results from the district funded Water Management plan that's going to be ra section of the presentation and then to discuss Pathways forward given the 2024 storm season that's where Justin's going to hit home next slide please so with that being said we have five main goals for this presentation first goal is to provide the background on the wmp development plan process second goal is to share the current level of service or losos will abbreviate through the presentation to discuss the impacts of title flooding the fourth goal is to discuss paths forward to keep residents in their homes through 2100 and the fifth goal is to obtain commission feedback slide please so what does your community look like in 201100 this is a projection of king tide in the 2100 planning Horizon as you can see majority of the city is covered in water now now this isn't a storm event this is just meant to be king tide um but to show you the level of impact in 2100 on this particular slide if we could stay here I initially planned on talking about two quotes after this but in order to streamline this presentation a little bit we might skip around so please excuse us for that but to quote uh Kerr commissioner Kerr he beat me to it but the city slogan here is two miles long and a smile wide so the question that I pose here is how do we keep residents and visitors alike smiling through 2100 I'm going to hand the presentation off to rra and goe and skip the next two slides for us please thank you Cody my name is RF gai I'm leading the watershed management plan for the city um so what is a water management plan essentially what we do is we map the city's storm water infrastructure we develop a storm water model that can then be used to analyze the storm water systems that are currently present in the city based off of uh different rainfall events and based off different different title conditions with that uh we can develop some uh projects or let's say uh areas where where Improvement can be made based off of uh performance or substandard performance using current U level of service standards now when it comes to level of service standpoint um the watershed management plan also provides recommendations on code revisions to let's say look at um providing better uh storm water performance when it comes to Redevelopment or when it comes comes to reconstructing a roadway next slide now I just want to give like a high Lev synopsis of of process in developing a watered management plan so one of the things that we do is we look at the boundary um and we look at the city limits and see what areas are let's say uh directly uh or what areas are have city- owned storm water infrastructure and what areas are just not even connected to a city system so what I mean is like looking at American Legion drive on the other side of Tom St Causeway the only city owned infrastructure is American Legion drive the rest of it is owned by the county so any storm water system there would not you know there would be no point in analyzing those areas as you know the city would not be improving those types of areas next slide and then we looked at uh land use composition uh using swiftmud data uh we revised it to include um some Redevelopment that has occurred and some areas that were missing um from from their data next slide and then from a soil composition once again using Swift mud's data for uh the soil uh makeup within within the city uh we made some minor revisions based off where we saw um little pockets of water that would pop into land areas next slide and then uh we wanted to develop the storm water model that actually looked at it from a subwatershed standpoint So currently the city uses is uh different areas for storm water assessment when it comes to npds or even from a maintenance standpoint we wanted to keep that um kind of going with the storm water model so everything uh Works seamlessly next slide and at the end of the day what we ended up developing was a storm water model that was interconnected using underground storm water piping and Overland we uh wear flow transfer so this is areas where uh drainage areas are connected based off spillover points from areas that just do not drain very well next slide so at the end of the day why are we here why do we create a watershed management plan well that's to evaluate storm water performance now the city's code uh actually currently has level level of service standards set now this is a this was ratified in 1983 so I don't know how current it you know it is to to what we're seeing today um however what the code says is that we evaluate storm water based on a 25e 24-hour storm event so that is 9 Ines of water that falls within 24 within 24 hours and it's based off a mean sea level of 2 feet or two feet above mean sea level which generally uh converts to 1.72 feet navd for like a tidal elevation now that's an interesting number because majority of the roadways or I wouldn't say majority of the roadways but a lot of the roadways are around elevation two and there're roadways that are below elevation of two na avd so therefore in a free- storm event you would already have what is considered a a sunny day flooding and now you're trying to also have a storm water system that can handle that however um we feel that that existing level of service standpoint um kind of paints a Rosy picture if you look at the map there aren't many areas that that fail the current level of city or level of service standards now with the next slide I'd like to show um what the National Weather servers recommends so with their uh turnaround Don't Drown campaign they say anything within with 6 Ines of standing water can potentially undermine a passenger vehicle what they mean by that is water can uh would provide or would create a vehicle buoyancy effect with another vehicle passing by could wash the vehicle off the roadway so now looking at the city uh level of service using the 25-year storm and six Ines of water above um the center line of the roadway results in a lot more area that that is susceptible to um impassable roadways during a 25-year storm event next slide and then even though it's kind of hard to see and we definitely have a bigger map that can show this um that is a 25-year flood plane using the current the city's current level service standards and it shows that there are Pockets where you know you definitely have standing water in the roadway um for the most part I would not drive through a lot of these roadways during a 25e storm event or shortly thereafter because you know it just wouldn't be safe for a passenger vehicle to to drive through next slide with the uh Watershed model uh we we provided some uh bmps or some improvement projects for areas where we felt that um either there were lowle low-lying roadways or there were just a maintenance challenge for the city next slide and with that said you know for the BMP we actually looked at a couple different aspects so with the low-lying areas when you have tidal impact so a 1.72 foot tail water condition you're going to have majority of your storm water systems inundated with tidal water before this rainfall even events or rainfall event even starts so what ends up happening is when you have um sto uh storm water already or Tide already in the storm water system your performance is reduced you're going to need more water within the roadway to push out through that tidy impacted storm water system what ends up happening is um you're going to end up having water stay in the roadway longer for longer periods of time and there's really only one true solution to that and it that would be to elevate your roadways some of these BMP projects that we recommended would look at elevating your roadways however they were limited based off of the current residential homes that are out in some of these parts of areas there are homes that have been built that are are built at a much higher elevation but then there are still some of these older homes that you know unfortunately were affected during Hurricane hen that are limiting to how much you can raise your roadway to provide a suitable level service next slide and with with the BM with the wmp we also provided a level of service recommendation something to be looked at to potentially adopt within your Coda ordinances now a more common storm that is utilized for um storm water design is a 10-year 24-hour storm event that is something that the county has as their base storm requirement for roadway uh design what we propose is utilizing a levelb uh roadway level of service for a rain event which means essentially you are limiting your roadway flooding to three Ines within the curb line so not looking at it from a center line or the roadway but from like a curb line standpoint what this would mean is during a 10year storm if emergency Personnel have to access a a a residential neighborhood or if they have to um or if let's say residents want to get out of their neighborhood they're able to at least drive through non-f fluttered roadways to be able to escape and then next slide and then finally so with those uh five BMP projects that we presented um you can see the hatched flood plane for the 10year storm and then the post Improvement is filled in flood plane which is significantly reduced in a lot of these areas now with that said I'd like to pass it along to to Justin as to how we go from here um certainly appreciate the the commission that's having us here um to kind of take a step back as to kind of why we up here giving you all the storm water data that probably two hours into meeting you could care less about um is that we realize that um you know the city is you know the city has some challenges when it comes to storm water collection um you're a coastal beay or your Island a lot of your roadways are low and you rely on a gravity system to where essentially you rely on gravity to push the water out when the tide backs up into the roadway the ability of that water to be pushed out and I'm speaking to another U you know a fellow industry professional here um when When the tide is elevated um that essentially um you know limits the ability of that water to I mean it still flows but it does not flow in as efficient as a manner so the initial attent of this whole study was to go ahead provide some storm storm water recommendations and uh let's say come come to the commission and staff um let's say in in in a in a multiphased approach and then Helen and essentially um what Helen represents is the city is about to undertake a major Redevelopment of a lot of the single family neighborhoods so we're we're kind of at a fork in the road if you will we have we know we have storm water challenges and we have low roadways and we know we got dealt with a pretty crappy Hand by Helen possibly requiring a large percentage or you know a a good percentage of these homes to be rebuilt so when these homes are rebuilt as and and we look at moving forward with providing storm water improvements um we want to start having some big picture some some big picture discussion discussions with the commission and with the community um we know the challenges we're dealing with um I guarantee you every everybody here understands what it's like to drive through a road that's impacted by tide um I I grew up in a in the Shore Acres area in uh St Pete so you know waiting at Publix for an hour for the tide to go down is not something new to me um and unfortunately that's kind of how we've lived our life now and based upon some of the uh you know based upon some of the projections not not the extreme projections the more modest projections moving forward um that is is anticipated to become more of a problem in day-to-day life and so um we we really want to start the discussion um again we're not looking to pretty much two and a half hours in the meeting throw a presentation at you and say okay what do we do in theut future you know it's not really fair to to ask for that um let's say very detailed feedback now but it definitely is the time to start the discussion um you know to to under you know to start to understand how the rebuild that the city is about to undertake correlates to the storm water performance that you can expect moving forward and really um if if you can go to the next slide so should I just like tap on the podium if you want to do next slides okay I like that I'll give you a fake tap you know so so um next slide please so all right so anytime we're looking at planning for the future we have to make sure that we're on the same page right so we have some pretty poor foundational goals and and some of these seem kind of silly but we think it's important to get out there um we're assuming that the city residents will be in their homes for 2100 and Beyond so essentially anything that we are proposing now is based upon that core assumption that madira beach is still going to be around in 80 years as a city so there are certain strategies that in high-risk areas that people can use um it's referred to as either manag Retreat or you know government buyouts there are certain strategies that that communities can can take and have taken throughout the nation to remove that risk um where we're at today is we want to present solutions that you know I I think um Mayor Brooks had a really good comment about people just want to get home um and we we are trying to present solutions to keep people in their home through 2100 and Beyond um and again we are we are assuming that the city will operate in 2100 and Beyond um and when we talk about operating you know sanitation storm water service you know basic services that that that you do today that will continue moving forward and then um also a reasonable storm water level service will be maintained to pretty much support the roadway Network um I I we are not proposing to be you know kind of the next uh the next Gondola based uh let's say uh roadway Network you know we we we are we are looking at strategies we're saying the city's going to be here in 2100 and we're going to keep on using the roadway Network for for transportation and and um movability throughout the city all right so again these are all very um you know this is almost like an oversimplification but the one thing that we do want to hammer home is when when we talk about solutions for um storm water today and storm water tomorrow um we are focusing on what we can control as a city okay to where um there are larger projects federal government um let's say multi-jurisdictional you know um um Arrangements that that they can pursue and those should be on the table and those should be evaluated but what we're trying to do is we're trying to say okay what can mad beach do to plan and what are those options that are reasonable within your city so you notice we do not have build a wall around the entire city you know that's that's something that um you know we don't think is reasonable but we do think that there are pretty much five reasonable options again not not asking for a vote or for a pick but just to consider moving forward so the first thing is do nothing and to be honest um I think a lot of times uh you know do do nothing um Can can well obviously it's frowned upon um do nothing sometimes canot be the wrong decision if you take in all the data and you say we are choosing to let's say um reassess this in 10 years and 20 years um as long as you understand the data and digest it properly and make that choice um that is a decision that that that that could be made um you also could kind of seed land or more or less say okay we are going to say if this area is um if this area is impacted more by title A or you know title um you know daily title impacts then we're going to pretty much let nature reclaimed what we took in you know what what we took from it 150 years ago um obviously um people purchase that land so uh that's something to where while we do present it as an option um that is not something at this time that that we are you know recommending from a technical St a technical standpoint so so the second is minor improvements and um when I say minor improvements more or less things that we can do today that can more or less mitigate for the challenges we're experiencing today but will not let's say be be the um you know be the major culprit of make you know keeping us a city in that year 2100 so um I'm I'm sure um the commission is familiar with backflow valves essentially the one-way valves that stop the sunny day flooding um when used for the right purpose I think those are a great tool you know so if if if you go into the situation and say hey we're going to put a backflow valve on this um we know this is not going to be the solution to sea level rise we know that this is not going to be the um you know let's say something that is going to uh you know kind of keep that City around to the year 2100 but makes things a little bit better today I mean I think that's certainly um you know certainly a sound sound strategy um but again backflow valves essentially what you doing with those is that you are flipping the rain water with the salt water okay so when we talk about it from a storm water standpoint which is what this Focus was really this study was really focused on um when you isolate your your your tide from your roadway and with that valve essentially what you're doing is that and you know that valve needs a certain amount of ump a certain amount of force to open and in order for that valve to open you have to stack the water as high or higher than the tide elevation so essentially when we look at it from a storm water level service standpoint sometimes these valves can actually make the storm water level service worse they're great for sunny day flooding um but again these are not systems that you put in when they're sunny day flooding then you take them out and put the pipe back in I mean so these are things that you live with there's there's pros and cons to those um and then also um you know when you have vegetative Shoreline we certainly recommend that that that be maintained so this is uh mad madira beach um actually has a storm water pump station and now now is where we start talking about this would be a viable solution moving forward um essentially when you put in a storm water pump station what you're doing is you are you are isolating yourself from the tide you know you're kind of severing that connectivity and you're saying that okay so instead of going with the gravity system and just letting this water kind of come in and go out to the you know go out to the Bay what we're going to do is we're gonna get that water we're going to collect it and we're going to send it to a pumping station and then we're going to pump the water out to the bay and when you have the necessary check valves you know you because I know a lot of you know what a lot of people are going to say is that oh you're just you're just pumping in a in a circle you know and that actually is not the case because a lot of these systems have check valves on them that essentially allow allow for that to pretty much be a one-way pumping schematic to where you can you can more or less efficiently or you know you can effectively provide a reasonable storm water level service um now I'm sure as Megan will tell you storm water pump stations are not maintenance free they are not um you know they they are not free you know like gravity um you essentially have to have a power source and guess what when it rains when you really need them you need a redundant power source and when you start to look at that kind of footprint now now you need a parcel you know now you need some land because a lot of times you don't have the rideway I mean thankfully you have that area um you know at the end of 141st yeah 141st um and you also need a large collection system to get it to the pump station because essentially when we talk about stormw water pump stations we're not talking about every neighbor having their own you know we're talking about these you know almost kind of Quasi Regional facilities which means that you have to now build these facil these large collector systems to Route it to the pump station and just for um just for kind of frame of reference right now the city kind of has what I would consider like kind of a disconnected system um which is really to where you have um you know you have your fingers out on crystal let's say you know to where it's pretty much an inlet and then it goes out you know you're not like an inland community that has these long runs of pipe that goes you know a mile of pipe then it goes to a ditch and then it goes out to The Bay so you have pretty isolated or or or disconnected systems so if the city were to pursue storm water puming stations then that is something to where I think we really need to kind of think about how we design these these um you know how we get the water to said stations another strategy um which is actually what what we feel is is effective for um for Coastal low line areas is strategically utilizing Phil and um essentially when when we talk about utilizing Phil um you know what we have to make sure that we separate two things okay there's FEMA and hurricanes which is pretty much to address hurricanes there's no hurricane be gone okay to address a hurricane you build to the FEMA flood plane and you evacuate that's what you do for a hurricane and there's nothing anybody on this Podium is going to tell you that they can do to stop a hurricane and if they do they just want a contract so um you know the the what we're talking about here is storm water service and SE and and really sea level rise so when these new homes are built at you know these homes are going to be built higher because of FEMA to where all you know these these new homes are are going to be built what's what's your free board is it two oh four oh okay four feet so essentially you're gonna have the base flood plus four feet and that's where your finished floor is going to be okay but no one's telling you where the the garage is going to be and so one strategy that that we think is that what if we said we want your garage at a certain elevation now probably the question is that well why do we want that garage at a certain elevation and that's because a strategy that we think is palatable and can be us moving is moving forward is utilizing fill within the roadways and that would essentially allow for us to stay with a gravity based collection system and and as as we Elevate um you know and and we Elevate the garages it provides the city more or less the tool of using Phil within you know within the city in order to kind of build your way out of the tide and these title impacts so essentially um you know Raph Raph mentioned earlier I think like some of your roads are are below elevation two and if we have a you know if we have a tide of 2.5 well guess what that's six inches in the you know that six inches in the roadway but what if we made a goal to say let's get our roads elevation five now we don't have to get there tomorrow you know but what we would want to do is we would want to make sure that we maintain the drainage patterns we have today and that's essentially right now the way that these homes drain is they drain towards the roadway the last thing I think we'd want to do is have it to where you know you elevate a roadway and people kind of fall down the hill into their house that's that's not something that I think is palatable for the next 50 to 100 years but we do think that when you look at how to increase you know how to you know say not only improve your resiliency but how to provide a level service or reasonable level service for storm water um while recognizing that you're going to have you know elevated title conditions moving forward we think the Strategic use of fill is certainly um you know a very sound tool to be valuated um and I mentioned this earlier so kind of when we talk about Phil how do we use it again we have to separate what we're talking about here with more or less FEMA and you know the FEMA building requirements um we are you know it's it's unlikely that anybody's going to be able to use Phil to let's say build a single family ranch in order to meet the flood plan requirements all right I mean I guess maybe if you bought six Lots you you know you can maybe do that but from a practical standpoint um you know we essentially you're you're going to be elevating and kind of building a lot you know to the homes you see now um but really utilizing Phil is getting those garages up and it's more or less recognizing that hey over you know we got challenges now we're going to have more challenges moving forward when you rebuild we need that garage to be at a certain elevation so we could have a shot of raising the roads in the future so you know so so that's that's kind of the very very high level potential of options um you know again certainly I don't think anybody's looking for you know pursue option three and then give me a timeline um but if you want to just have the discussion if there's any clarification that I can provide um because again we do want to make sure that when we finalize this watershed management plan that it has recommendations that are going to align with the commission's values and kind of really kind of how you see the city looking in the year 2100 commission you have any questions yeah I have lots of questions um I'll just start with a couple of questions um the me take my face off there please that's very very distracting so knowing what the if I had his we do it but you know [Laughter] so knowing what the elevations of the roads are here what is what would be do you have a recommendation have you created a recommendation for for the garage level uh for new construction since there are going to be a number of homes that are going to be constructed so full full disclosure um we are you just just to answer a question but kind of let's say give you more background to this so um we are a public infrastructure design firm and we work with u you know communities throughout the area um we are working with Treasure Island on a similar um you know type or or a program that would have the usefil incorporate in in into building um and the last thing I'm going to say is that two communities are the same right each Community has their own Spirit their own uh let's say their own political Direction their own Vibe if you will um but from a let's say geological standpoint your barrier islands and your low and for for that Community we recommended a low road elevation of 5.1 and a and a minimum garage elevation let's say of 7.6 so um while we haven't necessarily tailored a recommendation specifically for madira Beach considering that um you know we haven't you know we don't know if that's something you hate or if you're interested in um I imagine it you know when we're talking about big picture you know kind of what's what the um General ballpark we're looking at I would say that's a good starting point okay um yeah so for sustainability in 2100 that would be a I mean we have the same same Waterway so that would be um good goals right now I think we have an 18 inch above Center Line restriction you can't go above 18 inches is that correct so technically the way our code is written is we do not specifically have a limitation of fill the 18 inches comes from the um when the fire department was being constructed so the 18 inches came from that and it's wed such that it's for emergency facilities but what we do adhere to is the FEMA requirement so typically it's you allowed two feet of fill before you're allowed before you can do certain things that would be the most you're allowed so we throughout the city limit it to 2 fet of fill based on the The Fill like I said Ed by feeman it requires a wave runup analysis over that so that's that's what we adhere to is the two feet and that's above the crown of the road that's not it would be measured from the crown of the road yes two foot um I've struggled with this for number of years thinking about this back when we were on the Planning Commission so I I apologize in advance because Amry is going to hear lots of things I've said in the past um why I can understand in a city like you said every neighborhood's different in in the city of Tampa or wherever that the road is used as a conduit to drain the water from the home into the yard from the yard into the street from the street into the great into the into the piping that's underneath the street if in a community such as madira Beach where you have so many homes that are on the water why do we restrict the maximum level of the street to the lowest property on that street we do it so that you can drain it off the roof down into the yard and out into the street and into the great to get it into a into a pipe that's underneath road that makes no sense to me in a city yeah but when you have a seaw wall right behind your home to me we start looking at elevating the street to what your recommendation was to our neighbors to the South whether that's five foot that'd be three foot above what's what we have now that's huge oh it's massive but that's but that anywhere in between somewhere in there whatever that goal is that's going to leave a number of residents that you're going to be driving off the road and down into their into their space yeah MH now in those [Music] instances when we're redoing roads in my humble opinion instead of one storm water pipe running down one side of the road or the other they should be parallel under both curbs or roughly so that any homes that are that are below that street level that new street level can either tie directly in or out through the seaw wall same way with new construction why does why does all the water off the roof of my house need to go into the street to get back to the bay that's behind my house that makes no sense to me so two uh two things real quick so first of all regarding let's say if you know again because we're very early in the conversation let's say there was a desire to start to use Phil and said okay we're interested in elevating our roadways um personally I'm a huge proponent of kind of eating the elephant one bite at a time okay so I I would recommend that um if you were you know because really your roads have a normal maintenance cycle okay to where you're either going to Mill an overlay rebuild them every certain number of years and so if we're identifying a year of 2100 you may rebuild that road two times you know and so what what we would recommend is more or less phasing the use of Phill to get that goal to where essentially you wouldn't have to accomplish your goal elevation in a single project and you could essentially allow for let's say that relationship to stay the same now I think your question is really why do we have to keep that relationship if I'm understanding that correctly that is exactly right and two um it's going to be 2025 in a few weeks so in 75 years I don't want to build a house that's going to be obsolete in 75 years no and and that's that's what's really kind of accelerating the conversation is that when you buil to when you build to today's code and if we're saying that in 2100 we're going to look around and we're all still here like I'm kind of thinking that house should still be here right I don't want to I don't want to drive up a mountain but I don't want to be restricted to two foot above a an old road that may be elevated in my lifetime to even to what my garage is no and and so we we would you know so regarding the elevation relationships um we you know kind of we think the most prudent way to manage storm water is to Route it to a um a city-owned storm water facility within the roadway you know because essentially that City owned storm you know that that roadway runoff like generally storm waterer 101 got to tell you stormwater 101 is you want to make sure that you don't have any adverse impacts to where if we went ahead and we elevated a roadway and let's say we flipped that relationship and we made it to where everything goes from the road over the seaw walls um I know we talked about some people not being on social media but that would be a very popular video on social media um essentially somebody you know tving during the rain you know taking a video during the rainstorm and all this water is cascading towards their house um because essentially what we would be doing in that scenario is that we would be routing public runoff onto private property I don't think you're following me you have a curb in the street okay you have a grate in the curb in the street okay so as the rain comes down why would it run over the curb and into into a yard that's below the street it would run into the grate and into the pipe that's underneath the street okay I I I I apologize I I thought you were mentioning um let's say taking the runoff and and no let's say in having it go to this ms4 separate and Conquer okay so now the water the water that runs on my property on my home on my roof that I need to get rid of should be a totally separate calculation than the than the water that that falls onto the street and in and down the curb and into the great they should be totally totally separate in my in my humble opinion okay to where now is this for Waterfront Lots or for everybody this is for Waterfront Lots oh okay so essentially Waterfront which is a majority of lots in Mad Beach yeah so so Waterfront Lots would essentially have their own independent storm water system I'm just saying if it if they're elevated enough maybe not if personally I'm going to be a resident's going to have to rebuild so these are the things that have been going through my mind for for years why would I want to rely on building my property to drain off into the street everything's going to be a mess why can I take my gutters and take that out out to directly through my seaw wall so now for for certain water know so the typical Waterfront lot let's say if we're talking about that lot that typical grading the grading generally is like you have a high point in the middle right and kind of like half the yard goes towards the road and half of the yard goes over the seaw wall so so some of those lots really like really um if if you can go to the subwatershed slide um I'm not going to be able to hit back that many times I don't know which one it was but um but essentially when you look at what we're calling like your drainage basin if you will for the city um we recognize that there are a lot of these Lots um yeah like like almost yeah right there so you see how there's area a white area between what we're we're uh coloring in within the subwatershed and the black line which is essentially the boundary those are the Waterfront areas that drain away from the M ms4 of the city system off of you know off to over the seaw wall on in into the bay okay and the Inland Lots again if the road is reconstructed and it's higher than not all of them but if it's higher than a lot yeah it should be able to connect directly into the uh storm water piping that's underneath yeah underneath the it's underground we we would actually recommend if you were to pursue Phil and you were to rebuild that roadway that you actually still try to control the elevation based upon the lower homes and if there's two or three or four or 10 homes that are in in in a row every house doesn't have to have a connection you would you would put yeah uh you know a great every few homes yeah and tie and tie into that storm water just like it were if it were a street no and and and certainly you know you have the right away there anyway yeah and and that when we talk about a resident's ability to connect to the ms4 you know because that's essentially what we're talking about um if the commission wanted to pursue that I think that is certainly something that could be pursued um but the bigger discussion is are we pursuing that I guess under a scenario to where we're elevating the roadways exactly that well that's the whole point let's Elevate our roadways once it everyone will follow suit if they know what our roadways are gonna eventually be if they're not already and what um an option would be when when you identify that garage elevation that um you would want to hit for a newly rebuilt home let's say for your own example um essentially that garage elevation would take in account what that f future Road elevation would be exactly so and and that is um that is something to where if if the commission were to want to pursue the Strategic use of Phill for let's say storm water purposes and tital resiliency um establishing garage elevation requirements would would be a a huge part of that I just see remarks up and down the beaches residents not necessarily madira Beach complaining about uh valves not working um whether it's due to maintenance I know you don't want to maint maintain anything you don't have to so you know pumping stations um they all get corrode it they all need regular maintenance to work properly gravity is free you know if we're going to plan for the future let's plan for the future that's my like I said that's my humble elevation is the yeah most logical choice I'm sure we'll have more discussions yeah no no I I certainly appreciate the feedback again that's you know understanding you know kind of the opinions and the vision of of the commission is going to be important to how we kind of put a bow on this and you know depending on what timelines are possible do we is that something that is for kind of the challenge that's ahead of us which is this major rebuilding of the single family residences within mad exactly I totally agree with commissioner Kerr I think elevation is the roadway is a key but also you have to take in consideration the people that have still still have single level homes if you elevate the roadway and we're still on the Inland side you know and there're still single family level homes then that's could to directly affect when you elevate it's going to directly affect those homes correct and that's that's why why when if if we were to go down this path um this can't be more or less like hit this garage elevation and God speed you know like this this has to be done in a very um let's say a a a very predictable and repeatable way because essentially if you are to want to evaluate the use of Phil you can't essentially allow somebody to pretty much build their home and have impacts on everybody else right um you know and we recognize not thankfully not every home was damaged and a lot of people who are in lower homes are going to be able to stay so anything that we would do would have to allow for the goal to be met for the new construction but also recognize that you can't have adverse impacts on your neighbors so if we were to use Phill it would need to be done in a in and you know I don't want to say the RW but in a regulated manner because essentially any designer or engineer you know utilizing Phil is going to have to have certain checks and balances in order to make sure they don't have those in you know those adverse impacts the the reviewers are going to have to understand okay I'm getting somebody who's using Phil how do I review the plan to make sure that that's not going to have ad adverse impacts so certainly if we were to do this this would not be pretty much like a oneliner this would be more or less a program that the city would pursue for public infrastructure for commercial and for single family developments moving forward exactly and just like commissioner K brought up um the water people that are on the water side you know just you know called control you know control the water and as you said with the gutter system simply goes back out there I think that's a great that's a great point you know no and and so really I mean I think the you know obviously anytime you're using Phill um and you know there are a lot of communities that either have restrict on Phil or they just no Phil because like using Phil can can get nasty you know and it can be hard um and so um you know we have done a lot of leg work with with with an adjacent Community to kind of create a method to where we can use Phil in a strategic manner um if that's something that you know we can certainly continue to discussion if that's something that the commission would certainly be interested in in in in looking at but but but but I mean to your point it is not a just do what you want to do because you're exactly right it would have adverse impacts there needs to be checks and balances not only for the designer but also for the Builder and for the permit review end as well I'd like to compliment you on your presentation commendable oh I appreciate you and your team wonderful options from zero to all the way all the way to 10 uh my personal preference would be mhm just because with the pumps you know you measure pumps gallons per minute versus cubic feet per second so pumps can never catch up gallons per minute will never catch up to cubic feet per second so Phil in my personal opinion would be the way to go um but of course filling to a certain elevation could be challenging in the midst of growth um last hurricane this past Helen hurricane I think the elevation of water came up to 9.5 navd so um 9.5 basically was about 30 inches in our garage and destroyed a lot of cars and things in that nature so um I I am definitely for also giving ourselves a minimum elevation for the garages however we have to be extremely careful because the buildings will go in first the streets will remain where they are until down the road when all the buildings are elevated and then you build the road and then is there money to build a road at that time no I mean and that's you know you're you know um of course the the person involved in engineer is bringing up driveway slopes because that's probably what you're seeing right now um and you know so that's you know we we talked about adverse impacts to the communities um and how when you utilize Phill it need to be done in a manner to where it's kind of predictable and repeatable for the for the for the engineering community and the construction Community um but also too um in order like kind of the why of why we're using Phil is this thing has to work for this commission the next commission has to get voted in and they have to not hate it the next so so in order for this to really work and to be a solution to be you know or or to be a solution for you to be a city in 2100 like this has to this has to work for multiple Cycles right of of of government and so you know kind of the vision we had early on in this kind of quest was wow I can see this thing getting voted down real quick when that Maserati can't get up the driveway slope you know I mean that's that's and and and so really we recommend putting in a system of checks and balances that essentially say that okay here's our minimum garage elevation that's that's a goal there are a lot of lots to where if you if your roads at elevation to you won't be able to hit that or else your driveway is going to be literally un un you know undrivable and and that we think is not a re a recipe for long-term success it's deep yeah and and so really one of actually one of the factors that we really lean on strongly is driveway slopes like why we building a house if we can't get into it and so we we think if if we were to use Phil all these things have to be considered um thankfully a lot of that leg work has been done to where you know we're um we're we're at a point right now to where um you know we are in the public meeting process um within adjacent Community to where um you know you can certainly watch along um I will be there as well um but um it it's we've we've vetted a lot of these scenarios um because we know that it's not just about adding fill it's about allowing for the neighbors to not be impacted you still need to have access and so essentially what we developed is a way to kind of have an iterative design process to where you could you would start with your gold garage elevation and then we have a series of requirements and essentially what you do is you pretty much say okay does that requirement work or does that check this goal you know does that check these marks and if it doesn't then you reduce your elevation you run through the system again does it hit those marks and essentially you end up with a garage elevation that meets all of these goals that are imperative to make sure that this thing lives beyond my lifetime most of our roads are actually like four 4.5 and some roads are also five so maybe 2.5 in certain little areas so um please don't you know look at two no no it's nabd yes I have elevations that I can prove to you I have I have them in my office I can show you that the roads are like 4.5 then you've got Fus drive you got elevations there that around5 parsley isn't parsley low parsley remember did you use lar or did you actually no so we so um we use both to where the uh Swift Mud actually has Hydro enhanced liar data that they provided which is on the na um the 88 datm yeah and then we also truthed that with some surveys um so I mean you know C certainly if if um we can certainly discuss this more offline and kind of share that information because um there we've there are some extremely low elevations throughout the city which really are challenging to work in other words if you want to build a build a parking or the garages at 7.1 you know and the elevation road is like 2.5 you got four and a half fet a drop which would not be you know feasible well yeah so for certain lot sizes you know depending on the lot size and you know kind of the setbacks that are allowed within that area um some of them yes but there are certainly some situations with your smaller lot sizes and there there are challenges to where you know you would essentially have to use the program or use a program and step down those elevations to essentially you may not hit 75 but Heck if we can come out of this and we get six or 5.5 I mean that is a victory right there um especially considering kind of the challenges that we feel lie ahead for the city um I live in Snug Harbor and that's 6.0 that's of course we built it years ago and I know what elevation that is so that's how I was able to give you that 95 yeah so uh and the street the Tom store causeways elevation five and it you know and it varies and so forth and so on so um I guess we can't really say that minimum elevation has to be 7.1 navd if the road's at 2.5 so there has to be I think there has to be a minimum garage elevation has to be minimum um you know just to be sure that the cars maybe the wheels get wet at a yeah very bad storm no I mean you know and and actually there is some some literature we have online that um you know for board at I mean we can certainly share that to where you know we we essentially have a manual that we've developed um it hasn't been adopted yet and and and you know um I don't I can't guarantee that it will but certainly we've we've developed a manual I'm actually um in some of the presentations we have I saw a familiar face Marcy um in in in some of those presentations um because it is a complex subject and the reality is that we need to set goals and then provide a framework for people to work within those goals and step down those elevations to pretty much meet the unique characteristics of their site because really it's like you know and and and again with our vantage point we feel that if we start with those goal elevations and we provide a toolbox for people to use to get in that sweet spot essentially what we've done is we've developed something that can maximize how much fill can you practically use to elevate that garage and that's really you know because we don't we don't feel that some kind of draconian Everybody Must hit this elevation is really going to be palatable for the long term but if you can make it to where again 76 is the garage but let's say because of the unique side conditions they get five and a half still a heck of a lot better than um the alternative so Marcy what is the next step from this presentation for us so Justin can you kind of give us an idea of where you're at in the Water Management plan as well to kind of help kick this next phase conversation so you know the the watershed management plan is is essentially let's say the storm water study and we are we've presented some projects and and I know Megan's been actively reviewing that amongst everything else she's doing um and then pretty much once once we get those finalized we're you know we're going to have kind of like a summary section like almost like a what now and I think it was really important to staff to make sure that we don't write that what now before we knew what what essentially what direction the commission kind of saw us going um and so I would say if if the um if there is a desire to continue to evaluate the use of Phill then I think we can certainly wrap up the wmp provide that as a formal recommendation um I imagine the wmp would be adopted uh via resolution likely um yeah so it the wp I we believe yeah how the ordin are written but yes so that would be adopted and then the next question would be okay um how do we get these requirements into the code and that that would be the next step as far as evaluating timeline level difficulty and staff bandwidth to be honest um because there's a lot of things that we need to consider I mean we just hit on a couple of these like what about sight lines and Waterfront yards what about fence restrictions how do you measure fence restrictions fence I mean it it it can get pretty pretty deep um but what we could do is we can certainly um wrap the wrap up the wmp um provide a schedule as far as let's say what what is reasonable for staff um in order to re you know revise the ordinances what ordinances would need to be revised and probably admittedly you know kind of for better use of a term let y'all sleep on it and come back with more detail about the logistics because um we are just at the surface to be I mean not not to be dramatic about it kind of sound a little dramatic but uh it's it's it's true though it's it's extremely layered um because again the the reason why people don't use Phill is because it's hard it it's hard to use Phill and so a lot of times it's so much easier for a community to say no Phil problem solved all right right we really don't have that option and that's just BEC and and and we also need to figure out how do we incorporate this into the rebuild and that's really where I think the schedule comes into play to where um you know this is what happened to your community is terrible and how do we pretty much mitigate for the kind of the sins of the past if you will to not you know I I mean again we can't say it's not going to happen again because hurricane but can we look back on the rebuild in 50 years and say hey there's some foresight put into this and that's really that's really our goal is to make sure that we can kind of capture what we can within the major rebuild to whatever degree we can and that's all going to be based upon schedule and and we'll certainly coordinate with staff to kind of see okay what what are the next steps and and then come come talk again there's going to be a lot of new building plans coming out very quickly so this is expedit process so we want to come up with some recommendations we should do it very quickly I agree with that I mean that's I mean you know for one of the fortunate things is that um because this this process has been happening um or or let's say because this this um let's say program has been developed in V you mean it took us years to come up with this stuff and um you know your your neighbor to the South is at a point to where the package is ready to go so um you know we're not going to reinvent the wheel we're not going to look to um you know let's say redo everything we don't have time for that so I think a lot of the core principles that we vetted um we certainly have to make sure that it works with some of the goals of your staff so I'm not you know so it's certainly not going to be to where we we wi out one city and put your name on it and say here you go and you know here's the invoice but um you know essentially we are going to make sure that we I think we agree on the Core Concepts the big picture I now it's about how do we more or less fine-tune it for work for your community for your pring process and then what does that look like in the timeline of the rebuilt um and I think expedited is the exact word and that's probably even putting it a bit lightly and with that will become a more robust review process as well these plans will come they will be more costly to build which is is fine but just kind of you know the pilings will have to be deeper um The Fill obviously gets can get expensive but the engineering that will be associated with that on the intake and on the close out will also have to be addressed because there will need to be more um stringent guidelines around how the site is completed and how it gets signed off on once it is complete to make sure that we do not have the negative impact so there's a there is a lot to think about but it is it is important to do it now and you know one one thing and um you know because we tried to expedite the presentation um Cody Stewart our director of sustainability and resiliency um had some powerful slides about when when we're planning for the future whose responsibility is it you know as far as um who's who's who essentially pays that bill and I think really the question is everyone you know and that's that's kind of the you're a Coastal Community You're vulnerable to these changes um and um you know fortunately from from the state from the state level um Governor De Sanchez started the resilient Florida program which is essentially a state um a state funded program that is meant to empower communities and provide funding for projects to address these challenges um and and the city is actually working on a vulnerabil or the city is is working with penel County working on a vulnerability assessment so in theory that those types of programs or the these concerns are recognized at a state level and more or less when the state says here's a program and here's money there's saying it is your responsibility you know and um you know fortunately I I I think we're at a point now you know because the thing is we don't want to wait until it's too late and um it's it's very good that we're having these discussions now but again it you know there will be people that come up here and say this is costing more money and they will not be lying but what's the option the 800 pound gorilla um in the room are your services covered by any of that that state funding so they they possibly could be um one of the benefits is that you know a lot of this leg work that we've done in the program development it's kind of already been paid for um so that's why we would really start with a huge chunk you know a huge bite of the Apple already gone you know um to where certainly um you know I am um you know we we would we would love to be involved in way possible um if if that was the desire of the commission and staff um and there there would be some fees incurred on our end but we would look to reuse everything that we can from our prior efforts because we really have no choice not from a money stpoint but from a time stampo and so really the fact that we're under such a time crunch means that we have to reuse more which really means that we can kind of you know minimize our cost to the to the best degree we can La last question yeah oh no please um well we have so so we have a whole another meeting to go through um are you familiar with what they've done in Miami with raising the roads down there Rising above we're very aware with that and what so what one fundamental or you know and so I I don't want to sit up here and speak like I'm the expert on that program because there are a lot of Engineers and a lot of people smarter than I who were involved in that um but from what I do understand about the program is that their approach is let's have these roads hit this elevation go do it you know hit that elevation in a single project my opinion um and certainly we would work with staff to determine what what they felt was the best route possible based upon you know the uniqueness of the M Mader Beach Community um would be that we would pretty much make it to where we don't say we're going to hit this right now you know um I think if we are to move forward with the roadway elevation um I would like to give us some leeway and pretty much make it to where we have the ability to accomplish this over a long period of time and through multiple projects and to be honest you know the first project you do Under This somebody's going to come out and say well what did you do it's like this much higher and we're gonna say yeah we you know we did it you know we but but essentially if you take those projects and you stack two of these on top of another well now you're at 30 inches now you're doing some things you know and so what we'd Envision is that these would be pursued in multiple cycles and they would kind of Follow Your or your your normal maintenance plan to where if you're going to rebuild a road every 30 years there's a lot of cost with that roadway project that you're going to pay for anyway curb asphalt all that kind of stuff all those costs don't change because of Phill you know so really what you can do is you can utilize Phill sequentially almost like in a phased approach and you can essentially meet meet the project goals over not over a single project like I think Miami Beach is proposing to do but over multiple projects and then really be because from you know maybe this is more personal than technical but I just hate the idea of people driving down to their homes and I think that visual although you can draw it on paper when you see it in real life and you're that Resident that lives it um that's where we think that the program would essentially be terminated and what we're trying to present is a program that lives multiple you know multiple commissions and if we were to hit that you know we could get one road done but we couldn't do the whole city if if that answered the question I apologize if I rambled a bit there yeah that it does driving driving down is not a um unique thought throughout the country it's just a unique thought here I'm Bard rais in Florida that's that's witchcraft you're talking about driving down my house you know and so is snow I know yeah exactly salt on the roads so do we have any public comment hi bobell 13 301 Golf Lane I just had a a question about it because of what I observed during the hurricane I own properties on the side of golf lane or Golf Boulevard and really didn't other than the flooding um didn't see much impacted ground however stff west of Golf Boulevard on Golf Lane Golf Boulevard I've seen a lot of properties that had three 4 foot washed out from underneath the house um so I guess my first question is if we start doing Phil sounds like a great idea um I'm sure there's really smart people that are figuring out how they're going to stop that from getting washed out in the next hurricane especially when we had what eight foot Dunes all in the road I don't know but um to commissioner Kerr's um comment I know a lot of people that are about to be rebuilding there so you know we could do it in a way that you know we're safeguarding for the future and you know I'm sure those people would like to do it so there's my comments thank you do you have any additional comments yes who stayed here for the which one of the Commissioners stayed here for the last stor we when everybody had evacuate up to the microphone please thank you who who stayed on the island when everybody had to evacuate for Milton yes just you from Mil from Milton we evacuated we were here for Helen okay so what they're trying to propose what's going to stop mother nature from coming through okay and which going to stop the waterways from being flooded again how's this system going to help I don't I don't I just don't understand how it's how it's going to help what's it going to do to the to going to protect the condos when a storm hits again that's I don't know you guys have the answer thank you for your comments do we have any additional comments with no additional comments we will move on to temporary use of RVs and campers before we get into a lot of the a little bit of what the state statute is on utilizing RVs and campers we've identified approximately 70 campers and RVs currently throughout the city as of earlier today um and just so you that's how many we've I mean so far we had several folks yesterday and Monday and today come in asking about a process where that we've been allowing residents Property Owners to place them on their as long as they're on their property and they're not blocking the RightWay or any any other such as a fire hydrant if you happen to have one but so we're monitoring the ones that are out there and we'll continue to do that we will be uh following up to make sure that those that have them on their property are in fact what what activity they have whether they've obtain permits to rebuild or what the status is as well I think the comment from a resident at a last meeting was we want to make sure that they're not here just somebody who's wanting to live in it and not looking not having any other plan which some Property Owners may not have a plan currently just yet but so we're monitoring the ones that are currently out there I don't particularly have anything to add for you guys I know they just wanted to have this on here for a discussion Point Andrew did you want to add anything attached to the memo I included um the state statute that um says what what property owners can and can't do related to to the using RVs and then I include our ordinance um that basically the the the state statute overrides our local ordinance related to it and it's a great service so um I'm in full support I am as well I definitely am as well um I believe it's a pretty much a quick quick and easy discussion as as far as uh a displacement of a resident who's staying in their RV on their own property should be allowed to stay there as long as it takes to get their house back in order again including their pets yes I agree we need to be obviously compassionate and understanding of the situation do we have any public comment January 15th my motel time is up so I have no place to go I can't live on the street okay but FEA thinking uh says that they're probably going to let me put it on there'll be no problem with that thank you do we have any additional comments with no additional comments we pardon me it just should be noted that it is for a 36 month period maximum right per state stat and and you need to be actually working on your home to repair or rebuild it's not a permanent correct it's not a replacement uh replacement housing it is intended and the statute stipulates for a temporary housing displaced yeah you must be displaced correct next on the agenda is restricting mulch usage again another topic kind of put here for you guys to discuss um with the recent storm we we've it's it's kind of been on the radar but after the storms it really kind of put a punctuation mark on how it clogs up the drains and kind of ends up everywhere on the docks um and just kind of you know creat some issues so it's it's been it's it's been discussed so we just wanted to kind of get it out there too now while was kind of fresh in everybody's mind we had a resident at the last meeting who brought this up as is which is how I think it ended up here um I think it would be interesting to understand what the community thinks about it because you have options for mulch wood mulch rubber mulch um the shell that can be used which is super beachy right like so if you asked me what I wanted I would say well let's put shell because that looks great and it once it gets there it packs down and it stays the rain doesn't wash it away but I don't know how the commission feels I'd like to hear that I'm really interested in um hoping that some that the community here has some input on that because I don't know that I would vote any way other than what feedback I received from the community so do you have any comments um I have more questions I guess I saw something recently and it wasn't with mulch it was with stone but it was a um it was a spray that you sprayed on it was let's call it a glue but it was basically a spray to keep things in place the stone or or the mulch I don't know if that's a an option I don't know do you have the same issue with shell um or is it strictly wood mulch or is it strictly any type of mulch um like the mayor had mentioned there's different types of mulch you know what what kind what are we looking for here it's just it says non- living organic or synthetic in the um in the memo so they're my questions and that's I think some of that's the goes to like probably need to do a workshop and get some feedback from the community because it has been brought up specific to being annoyed by The Mulch I've gotten less complaints about Stone being washed and Drug around or shell um so the complaints seem to be just an annoyance with the mulch ending up everywhere um with this though our Landscaping code does require some attention we do need to give it some attention so we would want to address that with us in addition to that what becomes the other um issue and one of the things that is going to help is if we reconsider what we allow with in the right of way as well so I think that's those are some things that we can discuss with the landscaping and where Mulch and Stone and you know shell is being used so I think that's where we do get feedback from the community on what specifically they would like to see out of the Landscaping and limitations and that's a great thing you mentioned about the the glue for the stone I have not seen anything regarding that so those are things we would be looking into as we begin to work with the community to propose Alternatives I'm good with rubber mulch just because it has some weight to it and it will not float and it has the Aesthetics of a mulch I I totally agree with the mayor that we have to have some more public opinion but I remember that we brought the same issue up during ETA and we were talking about the wood mulch and how it clogs everything up it floats around you know um so yeah get more public opinion but also you know it's uh very uh I believe it's kind of harmful for the city as far as as floating around you know and residents get it when they don't even have it you know I mean 144th Avenue depending on where the current is going all that it's going around to the end so yeah definitely more public opinion would be awesome do we have any public comment hello it's me again um I can tell you I was one of those really annoying neighbors who put down pine straw and mulch because my landscaper told me that I would be perfectly fine a certain type of brand blah blah BL and My Neighbor Next Door was quite perturbed and kindly told me it was a bad idea and I told him well my landscaper knew what she's talking about and I'm going to do it well unfortunately he called me up after helina had hit to let me know I could come get my mulch that had washed all the way down to him so I think I can speak as a person who put it down that it's probably a good idea to stick with a shell cuz my shells did not go anywhere but my Mulch and my pine straw was his problem are not mine do I have any additional comments so I think we should have a workshop I don't know that I mean I don't know like a full-blown Workshop just on this but we should try to figure out some way to get some Community input before we make changes and then develop a plan to do that but probably sooner than later because we're going to be having a lot of Redevelopment right and when that Redevelopment happens it would be nice if we could get an idea of and some changes made so that we could start that with the new properties one one thing the uh madira Beach master plan will look at is is suggestions to what we need to change related Landscaping so when we do our next Workshop probably early next year in January that that might be a good topic to talk about at that that'd be perfect we can also add one to um our website media and issue out just a few questions and some examples and get obtain some feedback from survey okay with nothing else it is 5:41 we are adjourned