--------- Good evening. Welcome to the board of commissioners regular workshop. Today is Wednesday, July the 22nd, 2026. It is 4 p.m. City Clerk, would you call the role, please? >> Mayor Brooks >> here. >> Vice Mayor McIn >> here. >> Commissioner Tagleri
>> here. >> Commissioner Dylan >> here. >> Commissioner Gavay >> here. All are present. Public comment. Public participation is encouraged. If you are addressing the commission, step to the podium and state your name and address for the record and the
organization or group you represent. Please limit your comments to 5 minutes and do not include any topic on the agenda. Public comment on agenda items will be allowed when they come up. If you would like someone at the city to follow up on a comment or question made
at the meeting, you may fill out a comment card with the contact information and give it to the city manager. Comment cards are available at the back table in the commission chambers. Completing a comment card is not mandatory.
Do we have any public comment? With no public comment, we will move on to board of commissioners fiscal year 2027 Gulf Beaches public library budget. City manager. Okay. I'm sorry. um
on the golf beaches. Um we are being um uh asked from the um from the libraries to pay uh our share
of the uh 42 I'm sorry 26% of the 376,23 our our uh payment would be uh $97,765. $5.98. I usually Doesn't the um representative of the library come to these?
>> They do usually come and present. >> Okay. >> She was here at the at the last meeting. >> She was here at the last meeting. >> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. Uh that's really all I have. >> Do we have any public comment?
So, I reviewed the budget and what I found was that um their increase there was very little increase. Um they increased revenues on the library cards to $500 and their
contribution from the Penllis Public Library Corporation increased um they they adjusted out their park mobile fees that they collected. So, they had projected 3,000 last year or budgeted it and they're budgeting for 1,500 this year, but on their expenses,
the only increase was a cost of living increase on their salaries. I support the library 100%. So, I I don't personally have any issue or think that I have not had anyone in the community have a issue
with us supporting the library and paying our portion. Uh I watched I watched the recording of the meeting and uh happy price presented item by item and uh it's a very minimal increase. I'm in support of this. >> 100% support that pride or pride and
pride and joy. >> All right, we will move on to the fisc year 2027 sheriff's contract. City attorney, I'm I'm sorry, city manager. >> Uh yeah, I went ahead and reviewed this contract with last year's contract. uh I
do not see many changes in it at least in the uh services that they will be providing. Overall there's a 6.05% increase and I would imagine that's uh from um just an increase in salaries.
>> Do we have any public comment? So do you know that that 6.5 is an increase in salary? >> I do not know that. I assume it. I will. >> So, >> in the past they've come and presented. Is someone going to come to the meeting that we where we're going to vote to
present or >> Yes, I will I will ask the sheriff's department who will come uh and present it uh at our next council meeting. So the only reason I ask is because I understand the incre that they come
every year with an increase. It would be u mindful to understand why the increase especially since we are um potentially looking at the loss of property tax and an increase in services. And I'm I do not have an issue with increase in the
services to the uh sheriff's department but I would like to know what the increase is too. if it's to salary. Okay. But my understanding is that the sheriff's department can only make so much money, whatever their position is. And I could be incorrect on this. So if someone would come and and present that
because if you can only make so much money, then what's the cost? Is it because of their equipment? Is it because I'd just like to understand that. >> I'll have somebody here for the next meeting. Uh, I'd also like to have uh someone here to ask questions regarding non-emergency uh in uh ordinance
violations and if there's a way that we can craft our contract so that we have a better understanding of priorities of when not uh and I say non-emergency ordinance violations, things that aren't life life-threatening but are still ordinance violations in our
neighborhoods to protect the quality of life of our residents. I'd like to have that discussion. at the same time. >> I agree. >> I agree. >> Okay, we will move on to the next item, which is the founders day celebration planning.
>> City manager, >> I'm going to have Megan and Powers come up and uh give you an overview of um what we've um >> at least looked at. >> Hello, Madame Mayor and Commissioners.
Uh I put together I have something on your your dis and we'll put that in the packet when we update I believe I'll send that to Clara so we can update it online for everybody. Uh but I have a list of potential events not just for Founders Day itself but throughout the year as well so we can celebrate 80
years. Um and there's some fun things like uh 80 things to do in MadiRaa Beach. Just little fun things that we can do. uh we would like to ask the businesses to maybe do specials throughout the month of May for our founders day and things like that. For
the actual founders day celebration, we were looking to do a larger signature event uh kind of like what we have done uh but better music, more fireworks, more kids activities and definitely more marketing so that we can get it out to our residents. >> Do we have any public comment
commissioners? I looked this over and I thought it was a great idea. All the all the uh activities they put down is it's really interesting. I think uh all the residents would actually love that. >> And I was trying to think of things that
wouldn't really cost the city that much to do, but still would represent the 80 years that we've been incorporated. >> Oh, definitely. Remember the movies in Archable Park back in the day? >> I'll work with Max on getting Jaws. I don't know if the rights are available
for the water, but we can certainly see what we can do. >> Uh, one thing that I do think we should get going on even before next year is a logo for the 80th uh because we need it for the branding, but we also would like to do some swag as well, stickers, put a
logo on the signature for the employees, get patches for you guys, for your shirts and etc. Yeah, thanks for involving the the us and involving the residents as our residents are moving back. Finally, let's give them something to have ownership with, uh something to hang on
to. Yeah, this is what we're proud of. >> Absolutely. >> So, this is a start. If you have any questions or additions, please feel free to email me or we can talk about it at the next workshop, but this will be kind of a working list to to go off of. >> So, I I love it. Um, part of the conversation yesterday with
conversations was about the city and planning events. So, a lot of these things are things that we talked about at the meeting. Um, I'm super excited for for the community to be included in the 80th anniversary and I think that it
doesn't just have to be a day. We can start it on January 1 and let it be all year long. >> Absolutely. And we'll be working with the recreation team as well because it's a it's a team effort with this one. Yes, I think it's awesome. Thank you very much. >> My pleasure. >> Good job. >> Next on the agenda is John's Pass
Village Directory and Wayfinding City Manager. >> Uh Megan, can you >> You're going to do that again. >> Hello again. Uh so I was tasked with researching some wayfinding signs for uh
the John's Pass area. Um they did come to us with a directional sign that they would like us to purchase. There is a copy of that on your dis. Again, I'll have the cler the clerk um update the packet with all that information, too.
So, you'll see here that this is the shell of what we're looking at. Um and then in the middle is going to be a picture of the pass as well as the businesses listed. We still are figuring out how we're going to do said directory, but um the ask was for the
city to purchase the actual shell of the directory. And looking at what has been placed in John's pass previously, we are looking at uh three double-sided signs and two single-sided signs, which is going to be approximately $31,000. And that's before the artwork and the
actual businesses. This is just the shell. Is that base? Well, do we have any public comment? >> Can we see him? >> Megan, can you email this and I'll >> Yes, I will. I will. >> If you want pass this around if I if you
guys want. >> Uh, and then I also looked at wayfinding signs as well. I thought something that would be similar to John's Pass would be Tarpon Springs sponge docks just the way that it's laid out because they do have a ton of shops, a ton of restaurants as well as the boardwalk. So, I took a look
at those wayfinding signs and that's what you'll see there on the DIS as well. Um, there's some different things. We can do some generic signage like bakery this way, brewery this way. So, it's not as advertising for the specific business, but it's still pushing people
towards where they're looking to go. Another idea is there's a poll, a light pole on there, and we would have to talk to Duke Energy about this because they are their light poles, but there is an opportunity to put like a a sign like yay big um and say this is Mad Beach
Brewing and it points to where it is. So, there's opportunities to actually advertise specific businesses as well. So, I gave two different options there. Oh, go ahead. >> I love the idea of specific businesses, but of course, we run the risk of businesses changing. So, I think that we
>> I'm in favor of pointing the direction to Mad Beach Brewing, right? But something that is replaceable. >> Absolutely. So, with those light poles, you'll see that they're on there with like a a metal strap, so they're easy to take off and put back on. And my idea
would be have a 2-year contract so we could share the wealth. So, it's not everybody just one business. Everybody gets a chance to do it. >> And and do they is this the city's cost or does the business share the cost? >> This would go back to the businesses. Uh we would purchase it for them and put it
up, but there would be an advertisement cost if you would. >> So, we're sharing they're sharing the cost with us. >> Correct. So, the discussion with the merchants um that come down to the meetings and with some other um individuals down in John's Pass that don't attend that meeting
>> is that and with the city manager that the city would provide the wayfinding sign just like you would in any development that you would own as the landlord and we own John's Pass Park. So, we would provide the directory sign.
We would provide the wayfinding signage. The business would have to pay for their face to go on it >> just like you would in any other um in any other development that you would have signage in.
>> I believe that in the past they had signage that was wood. >> Correct. >> Um I really liked that. I thought that kept more with the look of the village. Maybe not that it has to be wood, but that look. And there is a sign when you
turn into John's Pass that's still there. That's the old wood sign. >> So, I don't particularly like the signs going on the poles. I would not be in favor of that. I would be in favor of something more freestanding or something different, not on a pole.
not on an existing light pole would just be my my opinion. >> So the directory I'm sorry real quick the directories. So there is a directory in John's pass currently now that's at the bell tower. That directory it's old
but that style is I think in keeping with what came from the >> they're looking at a handdrawn style of map >> with numbers. >> No no I'm not talking about the map. I'm talking about the sign itself that the map would go in. And then there's opportunities on the map to sell
advertisement around the map to pay for the map. >> I think one thing that we do need to keep in mind is like uh Commissioner Tagarini said, businesses do come and go. So, we would have to we couldn't change it for every single business that
comes and goes. So, we would have to do a timeline, maybe look at it once a year, every two years, and redo it. Um otherwise, it would get really expensive to to keep updating that sign. I think once a year is a reasonable to update the map. >> Um the signage would get updated by the
tenant at their cost. So >> correct. >> Um if a tenant moved out, you would just remove their sign. >> Be easy enough. >> So mayor, could I just ask were you at the last John's Pass Village? And did they was this are they aware that we're doing this? Will we be able to take this
information to the next one? Yep. That we have. >> It's here today. um the drawings that Megan has that she shared with the um the uh individuals that are here >> that we have. >> Well, not the um just this
>> the quote and the direct or the directional this >> Yeah, >> the sign was provided by them and the quote was provided by them as well. This was all provided by them. >> Okay, got it. Thanks. >> And I've done some uh research on the
map portion. I'm just waiting on some information back to share with the city manager. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Next on the agenda is Kitty Stewart Park landscaping plan. Megan Hello, mayor and commission. Uh, so on
your dis and I believe Tom is going to bring it up on the screen. What we've prepared for you is the kind of the site plan, if you will, which is not a finalized site plan. This is just overall or our draft site plan, which shows the locations of which the
landscaping beds are going to be. And then you also have a list of Florida friendly, drought tolerant, salt tolerant plants that are attached with that. We are kind of leaving this um open-ended. I'll let Mike kind of jump
in. >> Yeah. Well, we the the green areas are the landscape areas that we have available to us. Um and the ground cover and flowers that we have presented are
are what we are are the few that we have recommended for this area so that you all can look at it and and figure out what is it that we're look what we would like to put there. it. Again, as you can see, there's not a whole lot of area
that is left for us to put um landscaping. Um, but we'd like to have your input and also the public's input on what they would like to see there. Do we have any public comment please? No. Come to the You have to come stand
at the microphone, sir. No one will be able to hear you. >> Bill Karn's 400 150th Avenue. Um I know a big concern a lot of people were palm trees. Are there palm trees that are
included in uh in this? >> It's just >> Yes. Yes. There >> not a Q. This is not a Q&A. When the public asks a question, we don't dialogue with them, but we can talk about it here. Do we have any additional public comment? Okay. So, there's some
palm trees. >> Okay. Commission, would you like to talk about the plants with um with Megan? >> Uh so, I I'm going to follow I was going to say this anyway. Uh I know there aren't many areas that would sustain a palm tree, but if there is one, I'd like
to make sure that we have uh notable palm trees there. And the only other thing I want to say is my experience with the mlly grass. It doesn't turn purple as often as you might think because it doesn't get cold enough. It's
it's usually just stays green. >> Personally, the grasses are not fun for maintenance purposes, also for trash purposes. >> Um we pre previous to Hurricane Helen, we had Christmas palms um at Tom and
Kitty Stewart Park. We had um several different variations of agave there. Um we kept it very salt tolerant, drought tolerant. Um we we prefer not to have to put an irrigation, but we will. Um so we need to be just very mindful of of what
we do place there. Obviously, you see the beach sunflower, that's something that's typically more in the dunes. Um but that is an option. Although we do have a very invasive um parasitic weed that we are having we're fighting throughout the city right
now. It's called daughter and it is highly attracted to beach sunflower and the railroad vine. So, we need to also be very mindful of what we plant there to ensure that it is not killed by this >> parasitic weed that we cannot.
>> This beach sunflower isn't the same as the beach daisies, is it? That I see. Well, I plant them in my yard cuz they love it. They do you know what? >> No, I believe those are different. >> Those are different. Those should be on the list. >> Oh, this was not a complete list. This was a >> beach daisies don't even want you to do
anything to them. And the palm trees are what people want to see. And I think we should we should do stuff like that. Uh, and that's the only thing I can say with with any kind of experience. And the moogy grass doesn't turn purple like it shows in the picture. It's going to stay green and not be that pretty. Thanks.
Okay. So, since I'm there almost every weekend, the small island, keep it as it is, nothing cuz too many people walk over it. So, just leave it as a shells. Are you referring to the island that is closest to Catty's? >> The little teeny one, the smallest one that's there.
>> Okay. >> The other two landscape beds. >> Why not plant a palm tree in it? >> Yeah. >> You can't walk over a palm tree. >> You could I mean, you >> plant a palm tree. >> We could plant something there that that
island never had irrigation. So, if we plant something there, it will need to be something that can sustain zero watering. >> Exactly. And Yes, >> there's definitely palm trees along the right side there. And as >> we only have a three foot buffer there.
So, it's very small. >> That's where they that Sorry, that's where that business has those pod carpets along the side, right? >> That are directly on the property line that are growing over into our property line. >> And they're going to get big. >> They're going to get big. >> Those are we Well, I just I planted them
in my yard cuz they're a privacy. Uh I I don't know that we need to do that much over there with those those photo carpets are going to get huge. >> Bottle palms stay very small. We have those in various locations. We have Christmas palms in various locations
that also stay small, don't grow really fast. Easy to maintain, self-p pruning, drought tolerant, salt tolerant. So those are very good options for small areas. The only thing about small and short would be that you've got a walking path back down there. So, you've got
cars and vehicles backing in and everything. So, you're going to be halfway into the sidewalk. So, it's like very very narrow space that's going to potentially be going over into their areas, but they've got nothing over
there either. And then in the two front lawnscapes, I don't really have any particular, but they got to stay short, you know, for the egress and egress, you know, so >> they stay within the triangle. >> Yeah, that's all I have.
>> Why can't you put a palm tree in those? They're tall and skinny. They don't >> We just have to stay out of Yeah, >> we had them there previously and we can put them back. So, Commissioner, do you have anything? >> Yes. >> Okay, please.
>> So, what I would like to see in this case to possibly incorporate a an area for families to gather. And when I say gather, I mean when they get out of their cars and they want to go to
the beach, if they have a little bit of a ice box or whatever. So, if we can maybe dedicate one of the spaces, and I know it's money, but if we dedicate one of the spaces like a bench area where people with their kids can sit for a
moment and maybe utilize a restroom, kind of gather their acts together and then go to the beach. I think that might be a positive thing for for the people that are enjoying going to enjoy the beach and and also some residents that
have come up with some ideas. >> You give me the area in which you wish that to be. And >> so, so what I'm thinking is you already have a I think it says 5.4 foot um walkway to towards the beach, right?
see that >> the sidewalk from G Boulevard. >> Uh, no, no, the sidewalk that's adjacent to the restroom, just to the north of the restroom, there is a walkway. It says 5.4. Just go go down >> between the parking spot.
>> Yeah. Right there. See where the restroom is? Just the stair the stairs. >> Right next to the stairs. >> Yes. So, there's a 5ft distance there already. It just seems to me like if you put the ADA space there, you can enjoy that 5 foot, not just for the ADA, but
also, you know, you don't have So, I think you know what I mean. If you put the handicap space there and then take out that handicap where it is just on the east side of the >> the ADA has to connect directly to the ramp.
>> The ramp for the bathroom starts over by the other hand by the handicap space. So, in order to move the handicap space, we would have to then move the way that the ramp and the way that the building is going to be located. >> That's true. All right. Then then just
maybe put a hand put a um bench just where we just talked about where that walkway is. >> Okay. >> I think I think uh residents would be really happy to hear that. Now, is this just for landscaping or are there any other I mean you have all the easements
in place, right? >> No easements are needed. >> Well, what I'm saying is, you know, like there, you know, we received from Caddy's a 5-ft easement where the parking spaces are. So, it's not shown here, but I'm sure it exists.
And also that turquoise area you're alluding that that's an easement but there is a little >> just showing that that is just the property. Yeah. >> All right. So this is just a landscape >> that was the direction >> the easement is on there. It says it's on there. It says it it's just little
print. The easement is there. >> Yeah. The direction I was given was just to provide you all with plant details and with a kind of draft site plan for a discussion. >> Okay. >> So we can answer any questions that you may have. >> All right. So
the there's a space it's it's like a um hiatus between the turquoise area which is an easement and the property line. Does that easement directly connect to our property line? >> Exactly where the lines are, I'm unsure,
but our parking space and our pavers go over past that red line connecting to the turquoise. If that's what you're asking. >> It's it's a legal thing. So I'm sure >> the legal documents have all been taken care of previously back whenever the
park was constructed in 2020. >> Right. So and then along the south property line adjacent to the southern neighbor there is a grass strip or green strip. I think it's about 3 foot. Maybe,
you know, you could in three-foot you could put some uh wax myrtle just to do a buffer with the neighborhood to the south. And typically uh wax myrtles can be planted at like 10
foot on center. Um it gives you a nice buffer. Are we are we putting a um fence along the property line? >> We are not putting a fence. And wax myrtles get really large. No, they don't. Wax myrtle is a very small tree.
They're intermediate trees. They don't get big. They're like They're not like oak trees. You can plant them. I do it all the time. Um anyhow, just some excessive I would I would plant a lot of palm trees in here, not
oak trees or anything else. >> Yeah. >> So, wax myrtles and palm trees. >> Yes. Yes. diversify the landscaping a little bit, not just one item. >> Okay. So, who has been to the Have you
been by there lately and and looked at what the what the new condos have planted? >> I'm I'm there every every Sunday. So, I walk by the beach every Sunday. >> But are you paying attention to what they've planted? >> Okay. only the only reason I'm saying
that is because they've planted additional things there and those plants are going to grow large. So I think it would be mindful of all of us to take a trip individually, not together. We're not going together. It's not a field trip. And have a look at what they put
on that side. >> Um just to make sure that >> they are buffered. >> You're talking you're talking about the pod carpus, right? that they long line of. >> Yeah. >> And they've got some palm trees over there also. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, so let's before we have a
discussion again on this, let's let's go look take a take a ride and look at it and and mindfully be looking at what's planted by the neighbor. >> Okay. >> And then I think that gives a better will give you a little bit better idea of maybe and maybe and look at this. take this with you, all of us, and look
at the areas and how big they are so that you can think about what we're suggesting. >> Mhm. >> Um, my suggestion is I'd like to see palm trees and flowering plants and as many as you can plant wherever they can go. C >> can I ask another question? How far like
here's that wall of kodakarpus, right? >> And here's our parking lot. How far from those trees that they planted do we actually have to plant anything? >> About 3 ft. Oh, it's only about 3 ft >> right on the property line. >> Okay. So, Okay. And and they'll they're
going to grow in into it a little bit, right? >> They are already growing into it. Yes. So, we're going to have to keep it maintained on our side. So, we need to ensure that whatever we plant there, we can easily maintain it. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Those uh Christmas palms, I'm kind of
partial to the to those and they seem uh they would fit there, right? >> Absolutely. We had them there before >> and they grow to 25 ft. >> They do. They're slow growing though. >> Oh, slow growing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, would Well, I think that's a
great idea. >> So, Megan, on the um >> on the water side of the seaw wall. Yes. >> Can we plant anything? Can we plant like coconut palms or anything like that over there? >> I forgot to put that on here. That was
my plan. We are going to plant like we have at Archald coconut palms on the Yes. >> On the water side. How many if you were guessing how many will we possibly get? >> Five. >> Five. >> That's what I'm hoping for. I think we can do five. >> So I think I think that that will be
really nice. Um once those palm trees are planted, is there any opportunity for picnic tables >> on the beach side? >> On the beach side. >> Absolutely. So, as long as they're not in a dune, an active dune, which we don't have there right now,
>> we can have >> So, get them there quick before the dune comes back. >> We can always move them. >> Where's the coastal construction control? >> At this at the wall. >> At the wall. >> Mhm. But you don't You can put picnic tables past the coastal construction control. We have benches throughout the
beach. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I think that would be really nice. Is >> Megan, do you have an idea as to what you were thinking that you were going to do? I would love to see like you said the five palms there. I would love to see what your envision would be and you
know you're going to have to maintain them. You're going to have to deal with them. And that's where uh you know, like I say, all these plants, you know, flowering anything, you know, it's going to be nice. Uh my big thing is palms and making sure that
there's nothing tall in the um landscape areas by the street. So if you would have something and then like you say, you know, you're out there all the time. So if you would present us with something that you feel is good, easy to
maintain, easy to deal with, and that I I would certainly appreciate it. I think I have an idea of what you all are looking for. So, I think we can take that and and go from there. >> Yeah, we can bring that uh a landscape plan back to you uh at the commission meeting.
>> So, when do you think um I know the seaw walls done. Do you have a schedule yet for the bathroom delivery and for like the next steps or has that? >> I do not. I do have the production drawings for the restroom. Uh we are actually meeting on that tomorrow to
finalize a couple questions that the structural engineer has for the foundation. So I'm hoping that by tomorrow, end of day, we'll have every answer and then we can sign off on the production drawings and then once the bathroom goes into production, it'll be
fast. My concern will just be our timeline for getting the foundation in which you all have approved a not to exceed for Keystone. They have that plan, but it's just not all finalized until we can finalize the bathroom. >> So, if you finalize the bathroom tomorrow, it goes into construction next
week. Uh can Keystone go ahead and build the foundation prior to receiving the bathroom? Yes. >> So that it's sitting there ready to take? >> Yes. >> Um so once you once you build the foundation, how what will be the steps for completing the the
parking lot and doing the landscaping? not timeline but just process in time. Once we finalize the building, we will finalize the foundation. We will install the foundation. We will wait for the restroom because when they bring it with a crane, it has to butt up very closely
to the foundation. We do not want to put down brand new pavers and then them get crushed by the crane. So, we'll have the bathroom delivered and then we will put the park back. putting the park back will consist of uh maybe 60 days at most
to do the sidewalk and the site work. Um so once we get the finalized I think it'll move very quickly. It's just the intricate part of the restroom with the foundation with the coastal portion of it is kind of been
the questionable part. >> Okay. >> Well, thank you. You're welcome. One one other thing, Megan, would you place a line of sight at the driveway for DOT so that we won't put any landscaping in that line of sight? >> We will ensure that we are following the line of sight, the sight triangle with
DOT standards. Yes. Nothing will be taller than 36 in. >> All right. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you very much. >> You're very welcome. >> Next on the agenda is city manager holiday decor. I believe Megan is going to present this.
It's a Megan show today, isn't it? Uh, I've come back with a couple options. Um, unfortunately, I don't think the solar option is going to be great this year. Uh, they only have bows and stars for their solar option. So, it's not very holidayy. Um, so I would propose
that we go with USA Voltage to repair the poles, go with our standard lights. I'll try to make sure that they're the new ones so they don't go out. Um, and that's going to cost us $50,512. Do we have any public comment? Commissioners,
>> I was just looking over the, uh, information. And so, uh, I think that's a great idea, but it's $275 to come and repair one pole if they go out, >> unfortunately.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. Duke used to be able to do it for free and then they wanted to sign a us to sign a contract with them. Yeah. And it was going to cost a lot more money than USA Voltage was going to do it for us. >> Oh, okay. Thank you. >> Any other comments?
>> Are we using Duke Power or we using solar? >> We're using Duke Power. >> The solar option just it wasn't very festive. Um we'll definitely keep it in mind and keep looking every year at it to make sure that they're getting more stuff. I con I've been pushing for them to get solar for about three years now
and they finally have the option. It's not great. So, I'm gonna keep pushing. >> Yeah. >> Well, and that's what I would say. Excuse me. I was I was all up for the solar. So, I mean, you know, so you can tell them that they probably would have gotten it, but can't get what you don't have.
>> Y >> and so is this is this a yearly fee? >> It is a yearly fee. Yep. >> Okay. So, >> and the polls would be different because it depends on which polls are down. The numbers could differ year to year.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah, I understand it's a yearly fee, but I uh this is important to our residents. I get surprising amount of comments, >> so let's let's pay attention to this. I I'm uh I support the staff recommendation on this.
>> So, is this the only company that does this? >> It is not. We did go to RFP and I had one other company come in and it was over $100,000 for what they're giving us. So, >> so when you look at the um the
decorations, are any of this different than what we've had in the past? It's just the same what we've done every year. >> Um I'm 100% on board for fixing the electrical on the poles. It's the biggest complaint we get during the holidays from the residents is that one's lit, the next two aren't. Three
are lit, then one's out. So, I'm in favor of that. >> I agree. >> Absolutely. I would just would have loved to have seen some solar, but if it's not available, it's not available. >> We'll keep pushing it. I'll uh come back with a contract with for the next regular meeting.
>> Thank you, Mandy. >> Next on the agenda is community development her hurricane relief use of properties for parking. Marcy, >> uh good afternoon, commission. Um, so this is coming before you for the first time and you'll see it again in another
workshop if we choose to move forward with it. But post storm obviously we have several properties on uh Gulf Boulevard which are damaged. Um, some of the properties have been demolished and are sitting vacant. And one of the requests that we've had from from
multiple uh people along Gulf Boulevard is being able to at least use the property to earn a little bit of income while they figure out what they're going to do next. And obviously parking is a big option. Um the way our code is written right now, standalone parking is
um not allowed in those areas. Um so what we're looking to do is we really wanted direction from the commission if this is a door that you'd like to open to possibly allow us um in a specific district, specific area to allow people to utilize their property for quote unquote
temporary parking until such time as they figure out what their next step will be with developing the property. Obviously, we don't want Gulf Boulevard to become a parking lot, but we do recognize that people have been forced to make a decision about their property before they were really ready um and possibly had the design, the money in
place or or whatever those options are. So, like I said, very preliminary. We really want want direction from you guys if this is something you would like to to pursue and have us come up with a plan for and um you know what kind of um uh boundaries we'd want to put in place
for a temporary for being able to use the property for temporary parking. Obviously, it would always have to meet ADA. So, there would still be a requirement for ADA stabilized surface for parking and certain requirements would remain, especially with the landscape buffers if you're adjacent to
a residential property. But you also don't want to make the onus so great that people um don't want to do it. So we have to come up with how we want to to regulate that. There's there's pros and cons. Uh con being is you can't put the genie back in the bottle. So once once it's built in there and operating
um controlling that when their time is up or whatever constraints you put around it um when those come up um being able to to get them not to be in code enforcement because they're continuing to use the property u beyond their allowed time. So, those are some of the things. I'll let Catherine talk a little
bit about it. I know she's worked on a an ordinance like this to help for similar situations. So, I'll let her add anything to that and then we'll turn it to you guys. So, of course, the one thing we want to consider is we really want to encourage people to redevelop their property for
tax base and other reasons. Um, and uh, in the city I worked at previously, we did have provisions in our code that allowed for temporary parking lots. Uh, the problem with the temporary parking lots was that the way the code was written, they were approved by the city
commission for up to a year as long as they followed all the rules. But they then fell under um, a series of states of emergency. So these temporary parking lots that were supposed to be there for one year are still there and they are probably 5 years old at this point in
time because we the because of the recurrent hurricanes were always under a state of emergency and one rolls right into the next like for instance the state of emergency for Ian just ended last year so and now we're under a state
of emergency from the other three hurricanes that hit the Gulf Coast. So that's one of the considerations. I think one way we could work with that is maybe to put a specific time limit in the code when we write this not to say one year but all of them would be
removed by X date. Um the other problem is some of them have become nuisance properties where they are it's very difficult for the neighboring properties and they become a constant call to codes and a constant call to other things. So, I do think we want to be really careful
to put in really clear enforcable regulations as to how these operate, what hours they operate. Um, it would be the commission's choice as to whether this would go to the planning commission for approval or whether that would come to the board of commissioners. Um, in
the abuing city, they were became so controversial that the commission took back that power from the board. So, from the planning board. So, um, just some things to think about when you're looking at these. Uh, the improvements for ADA would be minimal. Typically on
these small lots, you would have one paved parking space and a paved path to the rightway. So, it's not a lot of improvement, but we would probably think about things like fencing when it's adjacent to um residential properties
and those kind of things. So, just some kind of lessons learned. Do we have any public comment? >> Good afternoon. Mike Woff, uh, 14225 Gulf Balard. Uh, I am one of the affected property owners um that had to tear down my building due to hurricane
damage and I am one of the offenders at this point, I would guess you'd say. Um, so I know you guys are considering this. I appreciate the consideration. Um, I understand the difficulties of putting the genie back in the bottle as you said. Uh, so my request is actually to go a step further and review the whole
C3 and possibly R3 uh, zoning to permit parking as a special exception use. Uh, that would then allow you to craft some uh, ordinance, some codes to dial it in a little bit better and perhaps leave it up to the special magistrate or the
planning commission to grant that request. then that can then be that request could be withheld because there could be an overabundance of parking. But just some additional information. Um obviously if you've seen the parking on the weekend, you'll see that the parking lots are full. Um we have a need for
parking. We need to support our tourism. Uh in the last 10 years, tourism has uh more than tripled. And since our code was written, tourism has increased 800%. So there's obviously a need for the those people to park. It would cut down on the non-emergency calls to codes for
people who are parking in the wrong places uh where they shouldn't be parking uh without their particular passes that you're supposed to have on certain places on the back streets like Palm Street and whatnot and blocking people's driveways and things like that. Um so you can easily observe especially on weekends that the parking lots are
really full. Um another consideration would be the parking surface. Uh our current code says that all the parking lots need to be fully paved. To me, that doesn't make a lot of sense. As you may know, I'm on the planning commission and a lot of our other codes require uh a maximum imperous surface ratio. Uh if
we're going to pave an entire parking lot, that defeats the whole purpose of having impervious surface in other residential zoning categories or other and commercial zoning categories. So I would submit to you that it would be uh worthwhile considering the open pavers
or um some some gravel something in you know consistent so that it's not a mess but something other than just a paved parking lot. Uh we did mention that in other areas uh for ADA compliance only one would need to be or however many were ADA those would need to be paved.
The rest can be some other u covering material. So, one of the things you could look at is I know the city operates a couple lots that are currently not paved. So, has there have there been issues with those lots? Are there accidents or injuries or things like that? That would be something you could look into to sort
of reference uh whether this is acceptable to find in your code uh that I'm proposing you do. Uh we also have a drive aisle width of 24 ft, which would preclude every 40 foot wide lot from being able to do 90° parking. Um, if you
have an 18 foot parking depth requirement and a 24 foot drive aisle, that gives you 42 feet. Most of our lots are 40 feet. So, we got a problem uh with our current codes. So, if the code were to be changed uh to allow parking, I would want to request that you narrow
that drive aisle. It is in and I can give you a I can cite you a bunch of examples where the drive is permitted in uh smaller drive aisles in other municipalities as low as 20 ft. So, that would then work. So, you'd be at 38 feet. Um, and it's typically when the
adjacent roadway um has a speed limit of less than 45 miles an hour, you can go to a narrower drive lane because you don't have to have that real fast turnin situation to allow for a wider drive aisle. There's well over a dozen municipalities
that have smaller drive lanes as low, some of them as low as 18 ft, frankly. Um, let's see. There there are a couple parking lots now. one I believe the city operates that is 38 feet wide. So that would be something to consider. Um also the the worry that we're going
to have a proliferation of parking lots. Obviously on Gulf Boulevard I don't believe a parking lot is the highest and best use. I'm in the real estate business. I don't see it as that. But it is a viable use. Um and I don't see it as something that would become uh wall-to-wall parking lots. But I do
think that there is a need for it. So it's something that we should consider. And again, if we do it under a special exception use, you do have the ability to potentially regulate that. Uh, so my request is uh for action to take is allow standalone parking lots as a permitted or special exception use in C3
and possibly R3 locations, allowing approved gravel or other permeable surf stabilized surfaces, allowing a 22-ft drive aisle uh for the 90° parking configuration. create an administrative approval process for parking lots to satis that satisfy all adopted standards
um and adopt an interim ordinance effective until adoption of the comprehensive code update as you have already begun to discuss. So that's all I have for now. Thank you. >> Thank you. Additional public comment >> Bill Karns again 450th Avenue. Um,
I'd like to see if we could incorporate a couple other areas besides just G Boulevard. One being along 150th Avenue and the second one being down in John's Pass. I'm currently uh um have a parking
lot down in John's Pass that I'm getting fined $7,500 a month for. I am not going to pave this parking lot before we develop our hotel that graciously the commission approved for me to do. It's a it's a financial burden. It's a
financial burden to me and my partner and uh I'd like to see if uh you can include those two areas. Thank you. >> Thank you. Do we have any additional public comment? >> Hi. Hi, Bob. um
13301 Gulf Boulevard. Um I'll keep my comments brief because Mike's done a really great job with his presentation of the issues and proposed some great solutions. Um I do support um the staff developing a practical process, encourage a process to formalize the
parking lots along Gulf Boulevard. Visitor demand remains substantial and anyone who travels Gulf Boulevard can continue can see the continuing demand for parking. A centralized parking garage could be helpful in high activity areas such as John's Pass. However, a garage in one location would not address
the parking needs at many beach access points distributed along Gulf Boulevard, for example. And I I have some sheets here. I'll just pass out real quick. >> You can give them to the city clerk. Um, there's no designated p public
parking near the beach accesses at 138, 140th, 145th, 154, while properties near 142nd, and 149th >> appear to be using, we'll call informal parking right now. Um, so it kind of shows a need. There's several existing
gravel or alternate services parking areas including city operated and privately owned lots near John's Pass, 13th, 134th, and 142nd avenues. These existing lots give the city an opportunity to exam examine actual operating experience. It seems like it
would make staff sense for staff to evaluate the maintenance records and safety history and potentially use information from these lots when developing a future baseline standard. As you see with what I passed out, you can see where the C's show where there's
a city or county lot. The BA shows where there's beach accesses. And then I don't have one in front of me right now, but I think like the pink ones show where there's nothing where there are beach access right there. And then I think
there's another color that shows the informal ones that are near the beach accesses. So, um, I'd encourage the city to approach the question by asking, "How can we responsibly encourage additional parking without making approval unnecessary, burdensome, or making small
parking parcels economically impractical? Um, by having some additional parking at these beach accesses, it would improve access to more of our beach access points, distribute visitors instead of concentrating them entirely around
John's Pass, and create opportunities for these beachgoers to patronize the businesses in other parts of the city. So my request to the commission would be to work with the staff for some sort of standalone parking permit or special
exception use in C3 and R3 locations approve some sort of gravel stabilized aggregate or other alternative services that meet the objectives performance standards and whether two-way drive aisle can safely be allowed in qualifying parking configurations. I
believe um in the one sheet I gave you, it showed about a dozen municipalities that allow that. Um and they're not small ones like Miami, um Fort Meyers, and I I can't remember them all, but we just gave you a quick little list there. But finally, if we could have a clear
and efficient administrative approval for pro to process lots, meaning that meet all adopted standards, I think it would be great. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Do we have any additional public comment? Good evening, Marcus Winters, 8:30 Capri
Boulevard, Treasure Island and owner of Catty's local restaurant. I think it's a great idea. I think tourism the hardest thing you see in the city is for people to circle and circle and they can't find parking spots. So, I think it's a great idea. I would suggest doing two things.
One, um I would put a a limit on it, a time limit. Um, you know, I've I I've developed a couple of parking lots myself and they're quite expensive. So to turn around and I've spent all that money and then let somebody come in and not have to do it
over a period of time. I think just limit the time. And the other thing I would just prevent maybe food trucks or anything like that opening up because, you know, we spend a lot of money on brick and mortar places and I want to make sure that these places don't become business areas for for other restaurants
and stuff. But other than that, I think it's a good idea. >> Thank you. >> Additional public comment. >> Mayor, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners, Jeff Begin, 439 Book of Sega Drive. Um, while you're thinking about it, when this hotel um gets going in John's Pass,
we're going to have a big problem. So, I know you guys are working on the parking garage, but there's some lots on Pelican that might serve for overflow for real, like for functions that maybe consider once you're looking at everything, think about that spot for now because we're going to have a big need when that
parking lot goes away. There's going to be a massive shortage there if you guys don't have a garage by then. So, maybe consider putting that on the list of places to consider. >> Thank you. Do we have any additional public comment? Hi there, Stephanie Barry 205 boardwalk
place a business owner in John's pass. The only thing I would ask you is to make sure that you include in it what the pricing could be so that we don't have our business completely priced out because they think that Madera Beach is too pricey to park. >> Thank you. Do we have any additional
public comment? >> Commissioners. >> Well, Mayor, I was going to ask uh for pros and cons. I heard a lot of cons from the city. I heard a lot of pros from our business owners and residents. I'd like to ask the city, what are the
pros? What are the benefits? Uh I mean, I've heard some good ones. I just wonder what do you think what do you see as a benefit for us doing uh allowing these uh parking lots to be um with with restrictions, whatever. Do you do you see anything that maybe hasn't been
pointed out in in addition to what the b business owners and residents uh may have said? >> So I think we all know we've been hit hard by hurricanes. So anything that we could do on a temporary basis to provide some relief seems to make some sense. Um
and you see the predominance of empty lots right now. A lot of people are waiting for financing or for costs to go down for building. So, you know, it's it is some viable use of the property on a temporary basis. >> Would would we be able to put in those
boundaries, those price limitations? I would I would hate to see more price gouging. Uh may like we're uh the the hotel has agreed to only a dollar over uh what the city charges. Would we be able to do something like that? >> I would refer that question to our city
attorney attorney. So, I think the answer is yes. You you can do that. You have the ability to do that. I I'd like to do a little bit of research on it though before we get so far down the path on that particular um type of regulation, but I I would think so.
>> I may have more questions later. I just want to ask those right up front. So, I'll let my fellow commissioners ask more questions. >> One of the one of the other benefits I think is there are a few buildings still along G Boulevard that are pretty well damaged and just vacated. I think if we gave people an income opportunity, they would be more apt to go ahead and tear
those buildings down. And I think that would be helpful. Um, and just for the health of y'all's conversation, I our code doesn't require it to be the parking lots to be paved per se. I do know that it seemed to have been interpreted like that for quite some time, but it really just requires it to
be a stabilized surface. So, we are able to allow for shell and um alternative materials um with the exception of the ADA parking that will have to be uh paved or concreted. Um the only thing with the shell with the Shell parking lot is the areas where you park are
considered um non- draining. So, those would not those you we wouldn't be able to use that for your ISR, but we we do allow that. So, just so you guys know as you go through your conversations. So that was going to be my question because I had thought my understanding was that it could be shell. It didn't have to be asphalt. So
commissioners. >> Okay. Uh parking fees. That was my first thing. And in terms of I think the only way I would be on board with this is if it's comparable to what the city parking fees are. Um next BTRs. Would they need
to have a BTR? >> Yes, sir. which gets into further things, you know, with BTRs. Uh definitely a tight guideline for time frame. Uh and and I would do it basically almost short enough that they
have to redo it. Um and and it seems like Kathleen's dealt with this before. So I feel pretty confident that she can do stuff up, you know, sufficient that we will be able to say yes, let's go
with this. Um, and then I I was when I read this originally, I was kind of opposed to it, but then after yesterday's meeting, I was talking to one of the people here and and um he was talking about some of the different
areas and I went down and and um yes, we do indeed have some nonconforming parking lots that are ours. So, um I mean definitely a special exception for a 22 foot wide drive with
the 18 ft stalls so that a 40 foot wide property that we have so many of them would be able to do something. Um how many well this uh at first I go um and then I had rock or shells. I
mean, you know, in terms of if shells are not permitted, rocks got to be permitted because I do believe we have one of the parking lots that is rock and a hard area for handicap. So, be it concrete or whatever. And that's
something that um and no business is allowed. Uh at first, I had Gulf Boulevard only, but yet, you know, they bring up a good idea, the John's past possibility. you know, if we're doing this, let's do this in terms of Mr. KM's
getting hit with that stuff. You know, if if it's going to be acceptable, I think it needs to be like our city parking lot that we get the money for. And um you know, the possibility of
Pelican Lane, I think that's something that we can look at down the line once they start breaking ground and look at all that. I mean, you know, but I'm I'm completely on board with this and especially with Hathleen's knowledge about making
everything right or or making it an ordinance that it's not going to be catching us down the line saying, "Okay, oops, we screwed that up because so let's not go into it." But yet, let's do this and let's start helping our
residents recoup some of that stuff. I think it's a great idea. I think it's a win-win for the uh residents and also that the uh tourists that come and visit Madiraa Beach. I I I like the idea. I believe like a two or threeyear term
would be acceptable. Um we can, you know, definitely talk about that. But um I like the shell idea. Um, I'd like to see like a vision of say per property like
some might like try to squeeze as many cars as they could to get, you know, bang for the buck. I would like to see some sort of uh like ordinance or you can only park cert certain many there, you know. So, um I think it's a great
idea. the ADA parking um that does not have to be paved. >> It does. That will that will be a hardened surface. Yes. >> Is there a minimum amount of parking spaces that they would have to require per per property? >> Yes, there's a there's a chart that
tells you for x number of spaces you have, you have to have x number of handicap spots. So, yes, there's a chart that we would follow for that. >> Okay. I I think it's a great idea. >> Do we have any compact space requirements. >> Yes,
>> we have guidelines for compact. >> Okay. Is it 16 by eight or what is it? >> Um pull that up. >> I I can pull it up and then there's a certain amount that it's limited to also. >> But I wanted to be clear. If we're going
to craft an ordinance for a temporary parking lot, we can allow specific things that are not in our code today. So, you know, if if it's a feasible thing that can be accomplished, you know, >> we can do a code specific to temporary
parking that is completely separate from anything that's already on the books. >> What do we mean by temporary though? What what define temporary, please? >> Well, that's the question to to the commission is what does that mean? Does that mean one year, two years, three years? you know, we'd be interested in
that input or renewable if they are in conformance and not renewable if it's not, you know, you want to think about those those kind of questions. >> Al also, what zoning districts would you not want to allow this temporary use in?
because of they've um been referenced C3, R3, PD, and C1 were all brought up as zoning districts where um property owners wanted to be able to do that. But are there any right now in our code, you you can't do commercial parking on an R2
zone lot for commercial use? That's on a commercially zoned lot, for example. My thoughts are Golf Boulevard and it was Golf Boulevard only until we brought up the idea of John's Pass. So, Golf B. So, I don't even know about doing it as
far as you know the areas. Let's just designate G Boulevard, John's Pass, and I'm not sure about what you were talking about on 150th. Um, where that would be, but I mean, you know, but I
would say let's get >> Okay. As of right now in John's Pass Village, the commercial core district, uh, off streetet parking is a special exception use. Um, so someone could come in and apply for that as of right now,
but the other character districts, it's um, not not allowed as a special exception use. >> Well, I think aren't they all going to be special exceptions? >> Um, if that's the direction you'd like us to uh, go with uh, doing that. We've
heard kind of two different things from from uh the members of the the people have spoken. They have said they want an administrative process. Um the question is does it go to a board? Does it you know or is it staff approved if it meets certain criteria? So that's another
question for you as the commission when we talk about drafting an ordinance. >> Well, if if you're going to draft an ordinance, then there's no need for special exception. So in the in the ordinance you can specify you know 100%
compact let's say buffer reduction um you know and all the elements or no landscaping or whatever if it's temporary why spend more money and how long is temporary because they'd be spending a lot of money if you say one
year that doesn't really make any sense two years. So that that's another thought to discuss and then permitting with other agencies that's you know needs to be discussed as well. So um those are what I had on my list.
>> So oh sorry ahead. >> So I like the idea of doing the writing an ordinance for the special parking. Um, 2 years seems like a really long time, but I was sitting here thinking we're almost 2 years since the
hurricane. So, when you really think about 2 years, it's not that long. So, maybe there is something um to that's something to think about in putting a time limit on it. you need a time limit, but we're we're coming on two years and we still have properties
that if they would tear down the building that was there and they made it parking, I would be totally cool with that because the building that is there looks terrible. We definitely do need the parking. I agree with that. Um the Pelican Lane property, it's interesting that came up. I walked John's Pass this
week and specifically looked at that piece of property to be and to ask whether or not that part that particular piece of property could be used for parking, not by the person who owns it, but just as the conversation. Um,
I think that attorney Tras could weigh in on the conversation on regulating pricing. I'd be super interested in understanding how we can regulate pricing and if that's if that's something that we can do in our ordinances or in our fee schedule or or
wherever that is. And the um information that was provided by the resident in regards to size of lots. I like that. So making it smaller and more usable. Um we do have small lots in the city. But I do have a question about beach access. So
for when I look at the map that was provided to us and knowing that these are beach accesses and that there is not parking there. When I look at it and think initially that well those beach accesses that do not have any parking
were intended for people living around them and not which would be why there's not real parking. However, that being said, if there was an opportunity for temporary parking, um, we talked about
the city doing more parking areas. Um, but I'm in favor of coming up with something creative. Whatever the that you take from this and bring back to us, I would like a provision in that ordinance that says if you have a temporary parking lot, you cannot have a
food truck on it. >> Yeah. Because the one thing that I would not want to see is eight or 10 temporary parking lots pop up and every one of them have two or three food trucks. That would be not the intent of allowing a temporary parking lot. Temporary parking should be
strictly adhered to temporary parking in whatever fashion that you carve out for us to approve that. So, I would be greatly in favor and I love all of the comments from the residents and the business owners that came and participated in this conversation today. >> Mayor, if I may recommend, let's say
definition of temporary could be two years plus maybe two one-year extensions. >> I would like to let staff come up with that part. Maybe it's that you get the approval for 2 years and it's subject to
an extension based off of whatever, right? To get that one year that there's got to be something tied to extending it beyond and to say two years. We just went through the worst storms this city's ever seen in any of
our lifetimes, right? I wouldn't want to have a little storm come through, somebody use that as an opportunity to get four years worth of parking. So, I think that's where staff needs to really be mindful in how you construct that. I also would like that
to not take six months to do this. not meant in any kind of way, but um so we had the discussion today and I know you all are super busy and and it takes time to put something together, but if we could have something come back at our
next workshop if that it's a month. I know that's short, but so that we can get it get it moving along for those individuals and hopefully to make a difference on those properties that are still standing with a building that we would like to see go away. >> Absolutely. And to clarify, no, no R2 or
R1 zoned lots would be allowed to apply for this. >> Correct. >> And I I think every I I think I'm in agreement with what uh just to to confirm, I'd like to see a proposal that
includes some kind of uh restriction on cost, right? >> Only if the city attorney needs to get that information and he needs to communicate that to staff. >> Right. I just all these possibilities for parking could go crazy if there's no limit
>> in the but in the 30 days that we have um if that's not possible then when they bring us back whatever they bring us back they'll tell us that >> okay >> if it's possible we'll do it if it's not we won't >> also uh I think this is accept understood water permeable surface we
don't want to pave over the entire island uh I'm in in favor of checking the the planning commission did a great job seems of giving us some options there so if we can get more in there. And uh the C looks like C3 and R3.
That's mostly Gulf Boulevard. Those are the That's it. We don't want to go into the neighborhoods because I can see uh that becoming a problem. And I I think those were all I think I'm in agreement. So, I just wanted to restate it. Thank you. And um just to clarify, did you
guys have an opinion on whether when we write this ordinance, we should draft it such that the request for the temporary parking would go before you or the planning commission or the special magistrate. Any thoughts on that or >> I was originally thinking that I would like to have more entities see it first,
but yet it's timing. We don't want this to go six months. So, I would say if you guys can get it together and bring it back next month, um you know, all the people here or anybody else that's watching this should be concerned. I mean, or would be concerned enough to
come and talk about it. And so, the sooner we can get this going, the sooner they can start recouping their monies. And then also um I think the two years and renew or re renew with review after
the two years and the two years would start once they you know get their permits or whatever we decide we're going to do. So if somebody starts next month it's two years from them. If someone doesn't get started until 6 months, it's two years from that point
and their two years is up for renewing and review at the 2-year point. And then finally, yeah, no other to see. Do we have any idea of how many properties we're talking about here?
Has anybody done that? No, I I I haven't done a count or anything like like that, but I do know we've talked to at least three or four property owners along Gulf who have asked specifically about being able to do this. So,
>> will there be a number minimum number of spaces required in your minds? >> Sight dependent. Yeah, we'd probably >> Yeah, >> whatever works on the site would >> Okay. >> So,
>> thank you. Next on the agenda is RFQ for ordinances update community development. >> So speaking of turning writing ordinances quickly um so as as you guys know um our our code is very outdated.
Um we've we've patched it over the years. Um and consequently we've tended to fix one area, possibly break another. We have a significant amount of we have conflicts in there. Um, so it makes it very very challenging, very challenging for staff to review the permits. Very
challenging for us sometimes even communicate when we're meeting with property owners, giving them all of the information they need because it's not in one clean precise location. So it it it really impacts the staff time. Plus, as we all know, AI is becoming much more
popular and they are building out tools to help with the permitting process, but that's only going to be as good as our code. So, our code really needs to be updated and it doesn't need to be a long drawn out process. We'd really like to get it comprehensively organized, remove the conflicts, and the
main goal with this is going to be let's clean it up and then we would come back with possibly proposed what we would change in our code because that requires a lot more workshopping, a lot more public engagement. So, really the first step of this would be clean it up, reorganize it, and remove conflicts. And
then the next phase would be the parts that we want to update and change that require more public input would then come next. So that's kind of how we see this coming together. Uh fortunately uh sitting to my right is somebody who's also experienced this as well. So I'll let her add anything to it and then
we'll turn it over to you guys for conversation. >> Just working with this code every day. Um basically we recottified the code in 1983. There's never been a comprehensive look at the code since. Um, so a lot of the 1983 stuff that follows through is
way older than even 1983. And what has happened to our code over time is sections have been added. And so the regulations for something might be in three different chapters right now. So we want to consolidate that, make it easy to use, make it easy for the
developers to use and understand. Um, and as Marcy mentioned, the staff time to explain like if we have to tell somebody what they can do with their property, instead of printing out section C3, I've got to print out like 15 parts of the code or link 15 parts of
the code. So, uh, we would really like to see it make a lot more sense. And there are specific for instance some sections of the code say you can you can have a minimum of three town houses and some say you can have four you can have only have a minimum of four and so you
know our code is just riddled with those kind of discrepancies. >> Thank you. Do we have any public comment? >> Marcy I have a question. Um, how long do you think that it once we go out to bid
and we choose someone, how long do you think it would take that to for the contractor to do their portion? >> We're just talking about that. Uh, Katherine and I you were thinking 6 to 8 months >> from the moment that you >> six to eight months. And the other part
of this is we're still under Senate Bill 180 which means we cannot do anything to make our land development regulations any more restrictive which or to be considered more restrictive. So that's really >> so but we're going to be out from >> we're going to be out from that next
fall. So if we get this project rolling now, we would have all this ready to >> go >> to adopt at the time that we are not under that umbrella. >> So 6 to 8 months for the contractor to complete the work and bring it back to us and then we start workshops or 6 to 8
months for them to do their work for us to communicate with the community the whole nine yards. So, um, this is only in my mind and I haven't discussed this with Marcy, but I am thinking that the main things that we're
doing now is just to clean up the code and not to make fundamental changes, not to touch those third rail items of height and density, right? >> Um, and to bring those back in a much more public forum in a much more workshop intensive kind of way. And so
these could theoretically just be done and then go to the regular series of public meetings. That would be >> okay. So you're talking about just sending this out to to someone to bring together the the where it's all over the place and put it in one place together.
not to change the code necessarily, but just to make it more streamlined, more readable, more easy for the public and for staff to be able to make decisions. And then after that, if there were things within that code that staff felt like should be
updated or changed that were would make differences, you would bring that back. We'd workshop that for the community. >> Start that with workshops, you know, rather than trying to write code and then bring it to a public meeting. we would would do the inverse and do all the public outreach.
>> Okay. So, we've talked about um grant opportunities for when we do projects like this. Is this a project that would be grant worthy or no? >> Yeah, >> I have seen some small grant opportunities for I believe this would
qualify for that, but we can definitely um look for that aspect of it for sure. And I would also see as we're going through the code, cleaning it up, and doing the conflicts, as we come across stuff that we do want to start changing and workshopping, we're not going to wait till the end. We would start bringing this to you guys in a very um
you know, a a nice order so that we can get things going and we can be prepared for that. But we can definitely look for the grants. Um and I do know we're working with um on our vulnerability assessment. And so I think with that too, there's some code stuff we'll be able to capture in that uh grant working
process. So, I think we'll be able to have some of that done as well. >> I'm I'm in support of fixing the the codes and getting them straightened out for sure. >> So, I'm sorry. So, what we would do is we would draft up the RFQ um go out for qualifications and then once we receive
those, we would pick the firm, then we would go into like the cost discussion, and if we don't like the the first firm, we'll go to the next one. So, we're very cognizant too of the cost as well as, you know, like you mentioned, looking at grants as well. Okay. commissioners.
>> Yes, >> I think it's a fantastic idea and I was excited when I was looking to see that it's going to be discussed here. Um, also I I had wondered about as to whether or not if if some of the things could be
brought in front of us as they're going through it. So rather than doing the whole kitten kaboodleoodle the 6 to 8 months because there's so many things that are from like 1987. I'm sorry that you know so like those things if they're
brought to us at the time and and kind of peace meal I think it could go very smoothly and it could potentially hopefully help them out as well. >> Your microphone's not on >> right. Sorry. We did a very similar
thing in Treasure Island and um we did workshop the chapters one at a time but you have to wait to adopt them together because you're taking this out of this chapter and putting it in this other chapter but we would workshop them in smaller segments just like that. So
that's a great s suggestion. >> I'm also all forward with uh moving forward with the process definitely and uh updating the codes it's very important. So yeah, 100%. >> Are we budgeted for this?
Where would you get the money? >> I I did I did budget for it. So >> Okay. And we the budget will cover in your mind. >> Yeah. Yes. I'm very hopeful that what I budgeted is accurate. >> Okay. >> So, and that's what we'll be looking for.
>> And also you'd be identifying the areas of the code that needs to be modified to the consultant so that they can give us a reduced fee. That is correct. We've actually given them an amazing head start because we have an Excel workbook we've been maintaining with all the changes. In fact, it's probably one of the first things that Mike had asked for
when he got here and it took your computer two hours to open it. I'm kidding. That's how big it is. But no, so we have started doing a lot of the leg work and we would be very much involved in it um and having regular meetings. It'll be still timeconuming for staff but not nearly to the extent
of if we were to try to do it ourselves. >> Okay. Thank you. Next on the agenda, thank you very much. Next on the agenda is finance ordinance 2026-08, fees and collection procedure manual.
Finance director. >> Sure, I'll take this. And before I do, I know we from the end of our budget workshop, we were talking about trying to reschedu that um September was it 23rd or 22nd date. So, I just want to provide you with that information. Maybe
we can have some quick dialogue so we can put that one to bed. Um, according to the trim requirements, as was mentioned, all hearings have to be after 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Uh, we have to advertise within 15 days of
adopting the tenative million budget and then we have to um schedule the hold the hearing within 2 to 5 days after that advertisement. and they can't be on uh the school board hearing or the um
board of county commissioner. The school board hearing is on the 8th. The c board of county commissioners on the 10th. So we are good with the 9th. Everyone here is good with the 9th. It's just getting that next one scheduled. So if we advertise that within 15 days,
the Times prints on Wednesdays and Sundays, we could actually save a little money uh because there's a premium to print on Sundays. So if we print on Wednesday, if we hold it on um the 9th
and then we print on Wednesday the 16th, then we could do the meeting on Friday the 18th. I think I heard Monday the 21st is a no-go. Um, so how would Friday the 18th
sound? So straight from >> what time? >> 5 something. >> Has to be 5 something >> and then happy hour right after that. >> I'm I'm I'm a yes. >> Right. After all, >> I can do that. >> Works for me.
18th. >> Okay. As opposed to the 23rd because if we did the 23rd anyways, then we would have to um advertise on Sunday the 20th. And so we're actually achieving some cost savings on advertising costs by doing a
Wednesday instead of a Sunday. So, we're changing it to from uh September 23rd at 5:45 to September 18th at 5:00 p.m. >> I think it has to be after 5, so 501. We
could do like 505 if that's okay. >> All right. >> Works for me. >> Okay. Appreciate that. We'll we'll we'll put that in there for now. >> Does that work for you? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Awesome. Okay. So, now to the
to the task at hand on the fees and collections manual. So, we've got several that we can go over from finance, specifically parking and um fire and marina. So, those are in your packet and we'll kind of walk through. We've got a couple nice pages that
demonstrate the before and the after and we'll focus on those. But then we also have had some since this agenda packet was published, we've had a couple other departments, namely recreation and community development that also has some proposed changes. So I want to I can I
can cover uh recreation and we'll we'll speak through it because this is just a workshop. So we can I can memorialize this of course for the first reading if you're comfortable proceeding. And then on the community development, there's some some ideas. Um, but I want to turn that over to Marcy to give some some
more input specifically on um community development, plan review, building permitting, code enforcement. So, let's start with the known and things that are in your packet. Those three areas, finance/parking, fire, and marina. So,
uh, in your packet, if you go to page, let me pull up the correct page because you've got the whole manual and then after that, we've got the before and after. So, that's a the great place. So, that would be on page 56, I believe,
of your packet if if I'm speaking accurately. And the first one is parking. So on your left side is your old from from the last uh ordinance adoption 2025-18
to the new which will be 20268. And so you'll just see the first one and what's highlighted in red is what's new. So for example, we adding the new ones back in parking violations $60, 88 parking violations 250 and fire lane
violations 250. And then on the next page, just some wording around overnight parking versus now 24-hour parking session as $96 total for the 24-hour period.
And then in Colin K, just an added parking prohibition area. And then in storm water is the next page. I'll pause in case there's any questions on that. Good so far. Okay. Storm water will be um as we talked
about that's just that going from the .edu rate of $10 per month now the EDU rate of $20 per month. We bill by monthly. So on the actual utility bills that you'll see will be uh $40 instead of the 20 because it's um monthly times
two. It's this change isn't in your packet, but I also wanted to address the aspect of multi-dwelling units and uh um non-residential commercial
um units. So, we're also looking at changing the wording around that to make the calculation simpler um and more clear and concise. So, if I can take you to that real quick,
that is going to be on page 50 of your packet. That's where you see the change. The .edu rate, at the top of it, it says the .edu rate shall be $20 per month for each .edu you instead of 10.
And then section three at the bottom of that it'll say the fee for mixed use property dwelling units and commercial is the rate of one EDU multiplied by the number of dwelling units existing on the property. Total on-site per impervious is then compared to impervious area
allocated to dwelling units by multiplying the number of dwelling units by 1,249 square ft per dwelling unit. So there's a lot there. Um, and Penelis County Utilities has offered to prepare those computations for us, but they also
charge a good bit of money for that. So our thought is just to simplify that. So if it's a uh a multi-dwelling unit, it would just be that rate, that $20 per dwelling unit. And if it's a commercial structure, we would say that rate at $20
per storefront. So, if it's a multiple storefront uh building, it would be that $20 per four storefront. So, something that can be easily calculated um just clearer, simpler, and easier. And if it's a vacant parcel, we would just
charge. So, if it was a mult a multi or a hotel that was demolished, now we just have vacant land. We would just charge the single dwelling unit cost that $20 instead of the $10 for that. So Andrew, whether or not they have a retention pond, you'd still charge the same,
right? >> Yeah. Yes. >> Pond. No pond doesn't matter. >> Correct. I don't Megan can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that factors in the calculation currently. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I've got I've got a couple of
things in in terms of when did we start giving tickets for backend parking? And is that because they have to read the license plate to determine? >> I don't know. Jamal, if you want to head up to the podium and address that,
>> commissioners, uh, mayor, how are you? Uh, we are currently giving warnings, but we've recently started. It's always been an ordinance, but as we remove the signage, people are able to back in. But as we place the new signage per parking
lot, it states clearly that there's backing in backing in is not prohibited. So, it's for many reasons. Safety uh for officers, a lot of a lot of original originally it was inputed because um a lot of shrubbery, you know, people
backing into sidewalks, things like that, signage. So, it's just to enforce and allow people to, you know, for when we get ALPR too as as well. It it helps in the future. >> Previously, I wouldn't have had a
problem with it, but I've got a truck now and to get between the lines with my truck. I have to go out and pull in, pull out, pull in, pull out where the backup camera shows me everything. >> Mhm. And so I mean, you know,
you know, and that's where I see 90% of trucks you see parking, they're parked backwards because they got a backup camera. >> Mhm. >> And so I mean, you know, I'm I'm opposed to that. And so that's just that's just
my personal thing. And we >> I agree with you. >> Yeah, I am too. I have a question. >> So you said that it's always been an ordinance or it's okay. as far as I've been here. >> So, the but it's not been on the fee schedule. >> It's just been improper parking. I'm
just >> I was not going to bring this up. I told the city manager I'd let it lie, but I agree with Commissioner Dylan and Commissioner Go. >> Um, we taught our kids to back in to a parking lot because it is the safest way to pull out.
>> Yeah. Now, the conversation that I had with the city manager is I can understand why you wouldn't back in in an angled parking spot, right? But we don't have many of those in the city.
But when you go to a parking lot that is just a regular parking lot, parking and backing in is the safest way to leave. Um, I went to I went to the store today because we had a meeting today and I said I went to the store today and I pulled straight through so that I'd be
pulling straight out. If I had not been able to pull straight through, I would have backed in because when you go to leave, you can look left and right much easier than So, I am not in favor of banning backing in on parking spaces
that are square. Mhm. >> The angled ones I I can I can buy into that because like if people were backing in on um in the village on those angled parking lots that could be I could see where you could say that's harder. I
don't know. I I like to be able to back in. So I am against saying you can't back in in a parking lot. >> No, it's really good. And we can isolate it to certain locations. like we don't want to impede in sidewalks which at Archabal Beach Park if you're backed in you're not able to walk or get a full
wheelchair you know you have to always have access especially on a sidewalk and it's just better for people you know navigating through the parking lots you know if it's back into you know if it's in a road it's how it's meant to be how a vehicle is meant to be parked is straight in so I mean it is convenient
and it's a little safer to back in but there's a lot of sidewalks walking areas >> but I could pull my car all the way into the front wheels and I'd be hanging over the sidewalk. >> That's why that's why if you park, you know, into a a parking space such as like Archable Beach Park where if you
back in and the truck bed is impeding it in the sidewalk, you know, we can isolate it to certain areas of course, but or just remove the >> But is that is that a problem or are it >> do we have a problem? And when this started, did we have a problem or do we
have a solution that was looking for a problem? Um, like I said, it's it's it's easier for the f in the future when we do adopt this technology for enforcement. So, that's a big reason. >> What technology? >> The ALPR service.
>> I'm not going to vote for that. >> Well, it doesn't have to be again approved. >> It's not No, there's no community that I've spoken to that says that it's worth the money that it costs to let somebody stay in a car instead of getting out and walking. And I I mean, I know it's hot.
I walk every day, but get out of your car and walk around to the back and scan the plate. Sitting in a car, I'm I'm not in favor of that technology. Now, I won't always sit on this commission, but I have not been I have not had a conversation and I have had multiple
conversations with multiple municipalities who have used or tried that technology. And I have not spoken to one municipality yet that was in favor of it. when you do the cost comparison to what it costs to have it. >> So, I don't want to do any decisions
based on technology. I want to make decisions based on community and community and community. And I think that's what matters most. >> Yeah. We can always cover up with a decal if need be. >> Well, exactly. And that's what I was going to say. I I I talked about
bringing the decals back, you know, granted and and so therefore if you see the decal in the front, you're not going to have to walk around. >> Well, I mean on the signage we can >> Well, I'm talking about the decal on the cars, right? >> On the vehicles like we used to the sticker, you know, and it's just like I
still would like to bring that back. I mean, you know, it's something that a little bit of pride, you know, that like you can see who all are there. >> Mayor, is this discussion about this? No, but I know I know what he's saying. What he's using?
>> Is is it even a discussion about whether or not we're going to change the ordinance about backing in >> there? So, I don't know where there's an ordinance. >> I don't have a strong feeling about it. Personally, like we're we're voting on this. We're looking at this >> and this is specific on here. It's
saying $250 for backing in a ticket. I'm >> So, if I can if I can interject so we can keep this moving. It sounds like the overwhelming sentiment is to remove the backend parking violation. $60. So, why don't we just we'll take >> those angled parking. I don't >> but I don't believe we have any
>> I don't think you should give a ticket. I think if somebody if somebody parks and they're over the and they're over the sidewalk if they if they're over the sidewalk then leave them a warning ticket.
>> That's not what I'm talking about. like backing into an angle is more dangerous. >> You can't back into an angle. >> It's very difficult to do that. That should be illegal. >> However, but as she said, you're driving through. You pull through. So, you don't really back. >> You can't pull through here. I don't
think I was >> Publix. >> No, no, no, no. But we don't regulate Publix. Right. Exactly. He's only regulating city lots. Just use that as only city. >> 90° angle parking. >> Thank you. That's the word I'm looking for. That's okay. >> That's it. >> Okay. Okay.
>> So, moving on. >> So, next is uh fire. So, that's going to be on page uh 59 is the is the comparison on for fire. So, it just shows um more between low hazard, high hazard
on um the fire and life and safety inspection. So, just more information on that and a more detailed pricing schedule on the um fire and life safety
inspection fee. And then the next is Marina >> price. I did ask about this specifically. Um, and this rate increase keeps us in line with other municipal marina but still less than the public
>> for these for these marina changes. >> Yep. So changes to the transit wet slip per day per week boat lift as you can see boat ramp fees launch fees
and that's the summary for marina. Then for recreation, those fees will be, let me just pull that section up. Uh so those fees start
on page 43 of your packet starting with the afterchool program resident non-resident you can see that's $9 and $12. So there's nothing you don't see any edits there. Um but what we will intend on
submitting for our um for the first reading in August would be for ne resident non-resident of 9 and 12 it'll be 10 and 14. And then for the summer camp uh program
uh session one would be 625 instead of 500. Session 2 625 instead of 500. And the full summer session will be 1,250 instead of 1,000. And then the non-resident rate 750
instead of 625 for session 1 and two and full summer 1,500 instead of 1250. >> Will the individual weekly rate change also? Uh >> or do we even do that? for summer camp. Traditionally, we don't
offer a weekly rate. We do it by either the first session or the second session. The week, it's just hard to It was something we offered for a long time, but just coming one week. Um, if there's a there's a child that's out that they know they're going to be out and there's somebody that wants to come with for one
week, we do offer that, but that's a very rare circumstance. >> Okay. Then on the next page, the bo uh rental space rental bokeh view hall with patio instead of 200 225. Ocean walk room 125
instead of 100. Starboard room 75 instead of 50. Outside deck 125 instead of 100. City center room 275 instead of 250. Commission chambers 125 instead of 100.
And then that's Monday through Thursday. And then similar price increases um increasing by $25 for all those that you see for the Friday through Sunday rental. And then the um
uh park and pavilion rentals. Removing the sand volleyball court rental. >> We're removing it. >> And Max, do you want to expand on that? >> Yeah. the the two hurricanes in 2024,
the the volleyball courts are no longer at Arch Valta Park. >> So, last night, one of the things that was um spoke more than one by more than one resident was wanting volleyball back. So, is there a possibility of
putting it back? We'll >> let Megan speak on that because she is more familiar with beach. Hello again. So, it was actually pre prior to Hurricane Helen that the volleyball nets were taken out. They were taken out due to the dune restoration project with Penllis County
back in 2023 or I can't remember the exact year. It was well prior to Hurricane Helen. Those were never properly permitted to be put there through FD because they are seawword of the coastal construction control line. Um so in order for them to
go back, we would have to work with the FT. So I cannot say yes or no if those would be able to go back. We have not really had too many people request them. I think since they've been removed, I've had less than five. So, um, it's never
really been a push, but if that is the request, then we can absolutely talk with FD and see what that process will look like. >> Okay. I'm of the opinion that we should look at permitting them and putting them back.
>> Agree. >> Okay. If we can, >> I will start that process. >> Clearwater Beach has it. >> Yeah. If they're there, people will play on them >> definitely. >> So, next is uh splash pad rentals increasing for the two-hour rental from
$100 to $200 for resident and then $150 to $300 for non-resident. Uh and then removing the uh splash pad with tables, chairs on patio options. Then on the athletic field rentals for the hourly for residential rates and
non-residential rates, all those would increase by $5 for everyone that you see. So when is the last time we increased recreation? I mean, not that I have a problem with it. I'm just curious.
um >> I'm not sure how accurate it is, but below the the lines they show the re the the resolution numbers or ordinance numbers and so you can potentially infer from there.
So for example, you see 2016 back in July, August on the >> Oh, sorry. I should have seen that. >> It's a long time. >> Henry, with all these rentals, um, insurance is included, right? Our
insurance, we we pay for the insurance. >> Max, you want to cover that? So you're referring to the insurance like if like if somebody rents a a facility a room rental it is insurance >> somebody falls and hurt themselves and
>> so if if alcohol is served we require them to get an event insurance policy a common for a lot of weddings a lot of if you're planning like when we majority of the time we rent the rooms are for weddings so they will get an insurance policy and they'll name the city as an additional insured. That's the only time we require an insurance policy.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> And then the last uh proposed fee increase as well, not memorialized here uh would be with within community development, permitting, code enforcement. So, I just want to turn over to Marcy to provide some additional
details on that. Um, so we're still working through the requirements of the house bill and how we can calculate permit fees as well as um anticipation. We're going to go ahead and address the plan review fees as well. So, those are still uh we're still meeting on those and those will become
forthcoming. And we also intend to add a line item for repeat offenders when we're issuing stop work orders. We find that we keep issuing them. So, we would like to to come up with a escalation process. So, we'll be adding that as well. What that looks like, I'm
still discussing with the team. And there may be a line item or two in code enforcement or related to code enforcement that we're going to want to add, such as uh fines for elicit discharge and things like that that are more clearly stated in our code. So, I'm still working on those. I'm a little behind just because of the House bill
coming through and us trying to figure out how how we're going to redo that entirely and then get our system set up to do that as well. Um, so that will be forthcoming, but uh I don't know the process for when I'll have that in front of you guys. And I and I'll have to get
with Andrew and Mike and see what we want to do. I like the idea of anything you can do um that can help us inspire someone who is not being
compliant whether it's overgrown grass or whatever that is that we can increase those fees to the maximum and be able to enforce them as quickly as possible because of just that's one of the biggest complaints in the city right now
is the people not taking care of their property. So, I'd love that. >> Well, you currently have a provision in state statute and your code that says up to $250 a day. So, if you're going to set forth a a fine amount in the code that is something less than that, you're
doing a disservice to your to the city, then you would just want to rely on the code enforcement. Bring you may want to bring it quicker. In other words, don't give a courtesy notice before you actually give a notice of violation. that will move the process along a little bit quicker. But you you already
have a $250 a day fine that can hit. Um, and that's, you know, you're talking $6,000 a month for not cutting your grass. That's pretty significant. Yeah. >> I I I believe that that is what we should be doing. I think we had a conversation in a meeting where you told
us that that courtesy letter didn't have to be sent and the the directive was we would no longer send a courtesy letter. we would go straight to we would skip that and stop doing that. >> It's um it's kind of um you know based upon the actual code violation. You want
to give your code enforcement officer a little bit of leeway to make some decisions like that whether if he thinks that he's going to get compliance with the courtesy notice then then you've just saved yourself a hundred bucks for not having to do all the certified mailings for a code violation notice and
staff time. So in some situations it's good. I'm not saying that it's legally required, but you I think you should still let your staff make that determination as to whether or not that they want to do that. Um, but if it is is something that is ir irreversible,
irreparable in nature, like the elicit discharge uh uh thoughts that Marcy just had, you know, we can move that fairly quickly through the through the process without a courtesy notice. Or they cut down a grand oak tree, for example, that's irreparably irreversible. So,
we'd want to bring that without a courtesy notice, but I would after doing this for almost 40 years, I don't really think that you should do away with it in all situations. Most of it you can, but let your staff have a little bit of leeway on that.
>> Right. They can. So, repeat offenders don't get a courtesy notice the second time around. >> Correct. And we've had have had conversations around uh what what when we skip the courtesy and go straight to the violation. I will say that in speaking with the Penllis County Sheriff's Office officers that we have
here, they are pretty much required to do a courtesy. So, they will not go straight to a fine. So, that's one of the conversations we've had with them. Um, and we continue to to meet with them on the processes. So, they're required by the sheriff that they have to send a courtesy notice.
I'll I'll get clarification on what that what the rules are for that. But but I will say as a whole we have we've been moving straight to it straight to violations for notice of violations for um for the repeat offenders and when it's serious. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And on that area, excuse me, I had
brought up that I wanted to see about having magistrate fees for everybody here. You know, the commission has waved fees, but all that time that everybody spends in the magistrate's hearing, like
this month, there were 15 magistrate hearing. There were two and a half hours in front of the and there were 15 things and we made not one dime. We cannot charge a dime because of the magistrate
fees. So, by moving these along, we're going to potentially make some money. And to wave these fees, we're just killing ourselves. >> You're talking about this commission waving fees? >> Yes. >> This commission has not. >> No, I mean, you know, but but
we did one or two that were like long-term, but then last month, >> but hold on cuz I don't want anybody out there to think we're waving fees. We've been very specific on not waving fees. And when we did, it was for a very
specific reason. And we've only been asked, I believe, twice. >> Yeah. It's not a habit. >> It is not something. >> I mean, you know, but I'm just saying I didn't realize this and I was like, you know, I I was here waving the fees. I was here one and but like so in June
there were 22 people that were at edit that were in front of the magistrate. And so the time that the city spends to go after these people, nine of those 22 were old ones, so basically probably
reoccurring. Four of which in July were old ones. So the the the the time period is terrible. And and where I'm going with this is in terms of I think we are trying to as a commission go against
some of these BTR people, go against some of the um short-term rentals and the illegal stuff going on. But by us doing this, we're just costing ourselves more money. I mean, more money and more
time that that our staff has to do to take care of all of this. And and I'm just kind of trying to make it's a it it was a like a wow to me. And as Megan had said when I was talking to Mike about this, you know, why can't we have
magistrate fees? But the state and that has certain guidelines. You cannot charge somebody. But if they keep coming back, it's like this is bad. And >> that's all my position on it. I can I
can get with uh attorney Tras and see what options there are. I will say that when uh it is brought before you guys to consider a reduction when staff goes through and runs the numbers, we always include all the time that we've spent with that person. So, whatever the
minimum that we recommend getting cover tries to capture all of that, but to your point, I can get with attorney to ask and see what what our options are there. And it's just a matter of like if we can potentially expedite it. And as we're coming up on the two years,
September 25th, there's going to be a lot of situations going on as to how many people are going to be c bought brought between brought in front of the magistrate. >> Well, we decided that we were going to extend that to 27.
>> So that's not going to happen this year. In in our meeting, we had that discussion here that that was going to be extended because of so many people caught in the cusp of not knowing if they're going to live, still waiting on insurance, still waiting on grants and different things.
>> Yeah, we extended the grace period on that to 2027. Yeah, >> correct. >> Tom, does the state of Florida allow the city to um charge for magistrate fees in any fashion? >> No, you're not. you're not allowed to
charge. So if um on the cases that do come before you for fine reduction requests, I mean we can do one step further. I mean Marcy talked about city staff time, but we could also calculate attorney time. We can also talk calculate special magistrate time. Um
and you can consider, you know, that in your decision whether or not that you're going to reduce the fine. Uh, but I will tell you that the city has collected a about a quarter million dollars in the last month on code enforcement cases and maybe a little bit more than that. I
think one was 283,000 um and another one was like 75,000. So, there's significant fines that are are being captured and the city manager um or maybe Andrew can, you know, give you all those numbers, but there are
significant fines that are being collected. No, there are some that that that are not. They're just sitting there because they're homesteaded property and you can't collect on them. But um anyhow, but to to to your point, can we
collect the special magistrate fees? We can offset that when you think about reducing a fine, make sure you capture it. So that in my mind, city staff time is important, but the big dollar number is going to be the special magistrate and the attorney preparing for and
attending that hearing. So, >> so then if you ha if you bring if you are so inclined as to ask us again to reduce a fine. >> No, I mean >> we can consider that also. I think that's fantastic advice.
>> Yes. And I was not aware that we got that many. I mean because all the magistrates hearing that I've see and and granted the 250 I mean I don't think there's really I mean last month there was like maybe one 250 which it was
because the um the structure was not livable or potentially not livable but generally speaking the fines are $150. And that's because the state statute and your code tells the special magistrate how he determines the amount of the
fine. So he looks at three things. One is is what's the gravity of the violation, how serious it is. Uh next is is what the property owner has done to bring the property into compliance now that he knows that he's been cited. And the last thing is is you know has that property owner ever been cited before
for things and is he a you know a repeat violator for example. So the special magistrate is supposed to take those three things into consideration. Now we make a recommendation when it comes before them and you'll you'll see in the testimony that's given by your code enforcement people the reasons why they believe that it should be higher but it
shouldn't always be 250. Otherwise it wouldn't make well in my mind it doesn't make sense to charge 250 to everybody. You wouldn't want a, you know, high grass junk trash and debris case at 250 and then you have a house that's burnt basically to the ground and it's just a big charred mess out there. You know, I
wouldn't treat them the same. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, anyhow, >> why here? So, I just >> But that's why we have a special magistrate is the professional to make that decision on our behalf. What makes the most sense and we have to trust that process.
>> Agreed. So, just to conclude my presentation, I want to confirm your level of comfort. Not only the fees that are disclosed, plus what I verbally uh told you all on the recreation side, but then the things that Marcy's comfortable with adding
before the first uh the uh first reading of the ordinance, which will be in August. Are you all okay with us adding those as well? So we can try to get those in because there'll be two two readings, first and second reading, and then obviously wanting to take effect
thereafter in the beginning of October. >> Do we have any public comment? Commissioners, do you have any comments? >> I'm in agreeance. >> I'm I'm I'm kind of along with it so long as we do away with the truck. I
wasn't wanting to accept the $20 a month as opposed to 10, but if I said no, I believe everybody else is on board with it. I mean, you I I I I think if that's the only thing that we are going to be
raising at this budget, uh I'm I'm I'll be okay with it. just say, >> "Okay, we're going to raise it to $20 if we all vote yes." And we're still going to be losing money. So, think of I mean, let
that sink in, right? We're still >> Exactly. And that's like, okay, so we're we're >> going to lose money. Yeah, exactly. >> Okay. Next on the agenda is amendment to consultant agreement finance director services. Uh yeah uh mayor commissioner um at my
request uh Andrew has uh prepared his uh amendment or a amendment to his aclarian consulting agreement and I'd like to have him go ahead and uh go through it with you. >> Thank you. >> So this process occurs annually. Uh we
have since 2023 we've gone into uh amendments to my existing consultant agreement for uh annual uh extensions and then the
it's based on a fixed monthly fee. So that fixed monthly fee was has been $8600 uh a month. uh the uh amendments the third amendment to this agreement. So the amendment for first amendment 24
second amendment 25 third amendment now in 26 for the for to extend through fiscal year 27 uh would be a 2.3% increase to 8800 per month and I would be the one to continue to um be the one
providing the finance director treasur services for the city. >> Do we have any public comment commission? Any questions or comments? >> I have no objection to this increase. >> I agree. No objection. >> I don't have any objections.
>> I agree with I agree with staff. Yep. >> Then next on the agenda is public works amendment to the RFP number 26-05 marina seaw wall replacement number two to include 129th Avenue 5 seaw wall replacement.
Hello again, mayor and commission. So, what you have before you is an amendment to the contract that we approved for Spieler. Um, as we've spoke previously about previous projects, um, we've already gone out to bid for this project, but at the time when we went
out to bid this, um, this seaw wall was not a portion of that. So, since we've been able to piggyback um this area 5 project off of the Duncan Drive with Keystone, we've gotten a quote from them because there wasn't a seaw wall in that
Duncan drive project. It way exceeded what our cost was from Spieler. So we asked Wheeler to provide a proposal for us based upon the proposal that they submitted with the RFP26-05
for the seaw wall that is at the end of 129th. So that is what you have before you. The city attorney has reviewed that and approved that and I am here to answer any questions you may have. Do we have any public comment? Commission, do you have any questions or comments for
Megan? >> None for me. I think it's a great deal. >> Thank you. >> It's expensive, but it is what it is. >> It's less than the other guy. >> Yes, >> that is correct. >> I agree. >> I'm good with that. Then we will move on
to ITB number 2604, storm water backflow prevention project. This project is based upon the state appropriations that we have received. Um, this is a grant through FD. We placed this project out
to bid and we received I believe it was six I don't have the number right in front of me um submitts which is very great. All of those ranged from anywhere from the lowest bid that you have in front of you with the contingency is a
bit over what our estimated project cost is but that's with the contingency all the way up to I think almost $400,000. So, we have 13 locations of which um we plan to put valves on with this money.
So, it's $100,000 from FD and it was a a match. So, we will put in $100,000. We have various locations throughout the island um that will receive valves anywhere from a 12 in to I think the
largest was a 36. Um, so I can answer any questions you may have. This contractor is very well known with these valves. These are the valves we have in the Bokea neighborhood and also 137th. So we are also very well
known with these valves and they have held up in Bokea since 2017 of their installation date. >> Do we have any public comment? So, Megan, if these are the valves that we already have, did have they ever worked for us before?
>> They do work. Now, to say that they're going to stop the water, they're not >> No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I mean. I'm sorry. I misspoke. >> This contractor has he has this contractor ever worked for us? >> No, he This is a brand new contractor, but we have vetted him. We also he comes
highly recommended from our uh way stop um representative who has worked with him in several other locations. >> So you know why I'm asking cuz he's the lowest. >> Oh, I'm sure. But we've we vetted him. Um he has very good very >> How much lower was he from the next? Do
you know? >> Around $30,000 I think was the second. >> Okay. >> Second lowest. And then the rest of the biders were not fully responsive in their submittals. they were missing several documents or did not follow the rules.
>> Okay. I don't have any other comments. >> Um Megan, real quick, um the valves, do you know how many there are and where they're located at? >> There's 13 locations. >> Okay. >> I do. I can provide that list to you of
the areas in which we have picked and I'm going to tell you it's Harbor, Bay Point, 140th. They're in the packet and North Bayore. Is it in the packet? It's in the packet. Those are like the main areas. >> Okay.
>> I've got the question. You know, where in Island Drive, >> there is a outfall for that whole entire system from 140th right at the intersection of South Beayshore. Basically, if you're heading out to Crystal Island, right towards right
where the concrete sidewalk is, there's an outfall there for this >> on the right side. Is you're heading out or on the left side? >> On the right side. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Cuz there's all kinds of barnacles >> there. >> There existing. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's all over. >> So, >> yeah, there's there's many different
kinds of these valves that you can do. And since we have a CDS unit, we can always do an option for an inline there. So we're the contractors all were told to go out look at the locations but there's two phases to this bid. So the phase one would be for them to go out do
a site inspection ensure that what we have in our data is correct for the size come back and then and then go through and order the valves. So this wasn't a we tell you exactly what it is. It's it's two-faced to ensure that one,
they're responsible if the valve doesn't fit properly because in the Bokea neighborhood, >> we measured on a couple different ones and the valve did not fit properly. So, we are putting it up to the contractor to do that. >> So, as I'm reading this correctly,
the Island Drive Island Drive is a 30in pal. >> It is a big pipe. >> Wow. Okay. >> Yeah. real. >> You know, I'm I'm Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> I was just going to say I'm not in favor of this design. I'm not in favor of
flapper valves. So, I will not be voting yes. I think they're detrimental. I think they'll they'll impede on cur on drainage and I think the barnacles will grow and
it'll be a maintenance nightmare. I I just I just don't like flapper valves. >> So, these aren't necessarily fully a flapper valve. These are they have like a cone shape and we don't with this design that we've had in place since 2017. We don't really have an issue with
barnacle growth on these, which is why we are proceeding to move forward. You are correct. They do pose an issue if there is a high tide event with a rain event. It all it they need more pressure to be able to push the water out. So they do have a negative effect of that,
but what most of our concerns from our residents are is the tide coming into the street, which will help with that. So it's kind of a it's it's a catch 22. We'll just need to be ensure that we our residents are aware and they asked and this is how this project has come to
fruition. >> Yeah. I'm just curious real quick um from experience that during the during the storms the um the valve that's going to be put or is in place at uh North Bay
Shore I'm sorry it is actually 140th in South Bay Shore there that area um just curious as to where that would be put. So there is a outfall right at that new property where they used to have all that beautiful landscaping back
in 2018. We put an additional storm drain there to help with the flooding. So there's an outfall that's there along with a baffle box. So that that valve for that specific one will go at that outfall >> and then there's an additional one at the one on Island Drive. >> Fantastic. Thank you.
>> You're welcome. >> What's the alternative >> for the valve? I mean what what is the is there a different kind? >> There is no alternative. >> I mean I I understand thank you because I got educated
>> that when the tide is high and we get a flood and rain >> there's nowhere to go. That's the cost of living unfortunately on a barrier island that's below sea level. So, um, and I've watched the videos of how those
valves work and how it works when it's just a high tide, how it works when it's just a rain with a a low tide, and how it works when it's raining and it's high tide. So, I mean, we have to have something
and you all are you you clean them. >> We do. We maintain on a quarterly cleaning >> with the Bokea ones obviously and we've talked about this several times. >> If you don't contain your landscaping debris and if you constantly put your
your landscaping debris on top of the storm drain inlets, which happens a lot in the Bokea neighborhood along with if someone has shell or any of that, anything gets stuck in between that that valve the the the rubber piece of that
obviously it's not going to close, >> right? But the alternative is just to continue with the way that it is now and on a king high tide event which we've been having some major high tides lately. >> So the like the wood chips that was a big uh
>> I wish we could ban them and mulch altogether. >> Yeah, I I believe we're working on work on that for within the right of way. So that will help. >> I'm down. I'm just curious, Commissioner Gavay, what what alternative would you suggest that you don't >> There is there's no alternative. Um the
you know the the best design is to keep the grate where the water gets in there as high as possible and gravity takes care of itself. Okay. The water comes in it drains if the if the top of the inlet is much much higher. Of course we have
to live with existing situations. as I understand but but you know you will be working the the flapper valve will be again will be working against you when there is rain coming and the flapper
valve is closed and it won't let you drain the water >> but your solution is that we raise >> well I mean that's designed but you have to you have to honor whatever's out there right now that's what we've got so if if you can I mean if there possibility >> with our existing uh roadways. This is
really the only >> Yes. Okay. >> I mean, good or bad, just right. >> It is. It is what it Okay. I just wanted to understand. >> Yeah. >> No, no, no. I appreciate that. >> All right. Next on the agenda is disaster debris management participation agreement with DRC.
you all have already um approved the interlocal agreement with Penllis County that they um they did in addition to their previous agreement due to costs increasing. So, this is just to piggyback off of
that agreement to ensure that um we have a debris contractor. I'm working with the rest of them. Our contracts with the old agreement are still good until I believe 2028. So, this is just doing some due diligence homework. >> Do we have any public comment?
Commission, any comments or questions. >> Thumbs up. >> I don't have any. >> Thank you very much, Megan. >> Thank you. >> We did not have any public comment to respond to. So, it is >> one one thing. I'd like to have Max come up here and give you an update on the
burger. We >> He's not on the agenda. >> I know. I forgot to put him on the agenda. I'm sorry. Wonderful. >> Thank you for stay sticking around, Max. >> Don't leave. >> I do believe you just didn't want me to talk about food two hours ago when we
were all hungry for dinner. So, um, burger week is coming up August 21st through the 30th. Uh, I wanted to let you know we have 18 restaurants taking part in Burger Week this year. Um to kick off Burger Week, uh is uh we're coinciding it with Village Friday on
Friday, August 21st, uh from 6 PM to 9:00 p.m. down in John's Pass. We're going to have live music. Uh just a burger week kickoff party. Um I was wondering if the board would have any interest in coming and uh celebrating that with me. I thought maybe we could all get on stage and take a bite out of
a burger and really kick off the event. >> As long as it's vegetarian burger, >> I'll see what I can do. I want we can do >> what a fish burger >> is >> or shrimp. >> So >> what what time is that? >> Uh 6:00 to 9. I don't have an exact timeline. I was going to see what worked better for you all. I know that event
usually gets usually the band takes a midpoint break. So my idea was to maybe get get the get the board up on stage um maybe in the middle for some um >> is that the day of our strategic planning session >> 21st?
>> Um yes it is. So, we will have strategic planning until 400 pm and then you can go and have a siesta >> and at 7 you can take the stage and we can chomp a burger. >> That's a great idea. >> Or have a snack >> so that you're hungry when we stand up
there and >> Yeah, >> I think that would be awesome. >> Last year was amazing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And isn't isn't it actually 10 days? It's Friday to the following Sunday. >> Yep. So, it's Friday to the following Sunday. So, it encompasses two whole
weekends. Um, our mayor can get all >> I will have no problem eating every burger. >> 18 burgers. >> All 18 day. I only need >> or breakfast burger. >> You have a breakfast burger. >> I only need nine >> two dinners. I mean, there's there's options.
>> I can take it to >> um How are you marketing this beyond just ourselves? >> Uh, just city. Um, we also have partnered with the chamber. They panel speeches chamber helps us market this event as well. um through Facebook and then uh just through the all the city avenues, email blasts and such.
>> Uh we also have all the contact information of everybody who's participated and turned in a passport in years past. So we're reaching out to those folks again reminding them about the great event that's taking place and hoping they come out again and part >> also uh visit St. Pete Clearwater is helping us advertise.
>> They're also on board as well. >> Yep. >> And at the end last year, I I believe it was Stanling room only at Dairy Shack >> the awards party. It was a full house. So it was >> it was a house all the way back. >> It's so much fun to see the winners when they especially if the personalities of
the people it's so fantastic. >> Um another event as well I kind of I kind of spoke with a few of you about this. Uh um I'm calling it burger with the board. So in place of conversations with the mayor I thought why not get everybody involved. Um so we're looking
at doing Wednesday August 26th from noon to 2 at the Cambria. Um, so kind similar structured like conversations with the mayor. I may have agreed to have you guys actually serve the burgers to the tables of the patron. >> Um, but just a good way for maybe people
who don't normally show up to to are new to conversations, have never attended. Um, very informal networking. >> Can we ask for a tip? >> We we could I get you a little apron with a with a with a book. >> I got a tip for you. >> But I thought it would be a fun event.
We have some apparel, some swag coming too uh for the event. So, I'll make sure you guys are all queued in on that as well. And then we're also doing another micro event. This is going to be a ticketed event for Burger Week. Uh we're calling it the burger bus. So, we're essentially going to sell tickets to go.
We're going to take um the ADA accessible bus and we're going to visit multiple restaurants in one night. They're going to get a little sample of the burger and a beverage at each stop and we're going to tote them around town. So, >> nice. >> Should be a good time. Good plan. >> That is awesome.
>> Any other questions? >> Looking forward to it. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> What happens? What happens if you need a second bus? >> Well, we talked about doing a second night as well. So, if this first night sells out, we're going to do another night uh the following Saturday. So, that's going to take place. I don't have it written down. That
>> 22nd, yeah, is where we're going to do the first one. So, >> I think it's awesome. It's very exciting. Um, Burger Week is something that has year over is just grown and gotten better and more excitement and more people look forward to it and it it is such a great vibe and the community
loves it. So, it is fantastic. >> Awesome. Thank you guys for uh letting me run with my ideas and and uh follow through with this. So, I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, >> Mayor. I'm sorry to detain I just but this just came up. I we we
rescheduled our November meetings to a Tuesday. >> We did. >> Well, yes. And because Wednesday is Veterans Day and I now have a work conflict with a Tuesday because I usually schedule around Wednesdays. Uh and I'd like to
discuss rescheduling the rescheduling. Um it if we did it on November because it's remember it's both meetings for November on one day so that we avoid Thanksgiving. If we do it on Wednesday the 18th, it's still a week before Thanksgiving, more than a week before
Thanksgiving. And I would like to ask if the board might indulge me in uh requesting this change or or another day, but that's just a a possibility. I >> I don't I don't have an issue with the 25th. I mean with the 18th, I'm sorry. I don't have an issue.
>> Aren't we going to start at 2 o'clock? >> I don't have an issue. >> You have one or you don't? You do not. >> Yeah. There there I have it in my calendar. Two and four just like we did today. >> Yep. >> I mean, I have a lot of issues. >> I don't have it. So, the 18th is
>> I I didn't have it on on mine. So, the 18th works. >> Well, cler before I spoke, I asked Clara, she confirmed that we had >> Yeah, we did. We did. We did. Commissioner, >> city attorney, do you have a conflict with the 18th? >> I do. I have the Safety Harbor code
enforcement meeting at 6:30. So, I'll get someone else to cover. >> Okay. Don't get anybody better than you. >> I if if that's possible, I appreciate it that way. I don't have that word. I don't have to. That would be two meetings I'd have to miss. >> What time did they say? >> Thank you. >> And Veterans Day will be off.
>> And we're still off on Veterans Day, right? >> Yes. >> Thank you so much. You're welcome. >> Which meeting workshop? >> We put both of those on one day. So >> November and December. >> It's at 6:00. >> Two and two and four >> work. >> But it's two and four.
>> Two and four. We do the workshop at two and the meeting at 4 >> or vice versa. >> Two and four. >> Mayor, you still want to do because we have a workshop at the ending of the month before and then you're coming back for another workshop than regular. There was one of those that didn't have a
workshop for January. So did we want to just do workshop then come in November do regular workshop December >> and not do lot >> the problem so here's the problem with the the here's the problem when you have a workshop in a meeting so staff doesn't
have time when we do them on the same day like that they don't have time to prepare anything so I kind of feel like we would really be better off just to if just to do a um
in no so if we did in November instead of doing a workshop and a meeting what if we just did well no cuz J because in January the first meeting in January is going to be a meeting. So in November
we should we should make it we should just do a meeting and then in December just do a workshop and then in January are we kick off with a meeting. So then instead of being here for not even it's not even concerning about the hours, there's no way for staff to be able to
be productive for the meeting because they haven't had the time to prepare anything and put it in the packet. So I would re I would suggest that in or in November we do a work or we do a meeting a regular meeting and then in December we do a workshop and then in January we
have a meeting based off that December workshop. The benefit for us would be that we could have a we could have a little bit longer of a workshop in December if we wanted to because we could still start it at 2:00 and if we did 2 to 6
it would you know if that is how it presents itself for us as we're working through all these different things but instead of doing two meetings in one day let's just do one meeting in November and one meeting in December >> and do both at >> I think that I think that is better for staff to be able to get all of their
things together and then when they have the meet when we do the workshop in December they would have potent you know I mean it's a holiday there's so much going on >> or mayor you or we could just not have a not have a workshop we'll just have a meeting and so that
>> you can't have a meeting there you can't have a meeting without a workshop there's nothing to vote on >> well you can't if we do if we have in October we have our regular workshop It's our second meeting. And then in
November, we have a meeting based off that workshop, right? >> But we don't do a workshop in November. We just do a meeting. And then in December, we do just do a workshop and no meeting. And then we have our meeting in January based off that December
workshop. Then staff has this. Trying to do a workshop and a meeting in the same day doesn't it's not productive for staff and for us, >> right? Unless the work unless the the um
the meeting you have a meeting and then you have the workshop for the next meeting. >> That is I understand that but I'm trying to simplify it because of the holidays for staff. I think that that would be we've not done that I don't believe but
and there's two staff here that might could give input on whether I'm off base >> but at that time of year it's they're so busy. There's so much going on and people are on vacation and they're traveling and all those things. Why not let's try something new this year that
would be maybe more productive in the long runic >> is what I think is where my thought is. >> I'm fine with that. So where are we? So we've got the workshop on the 28th of October. >> Yes. And then in November we're going to
have our meeting on the 18th. >> On the 18th. But so it's not a workshop. It's >> meeting, not a workshop. >> It's a meeting, not a workshop. >> So that has to be at Could that be at 4 or >> be two? >> It could be two. >> Yeah. >> I don't see why we couldn't do it at 2 o'clock. >> Great.
>> That would work better for you, wouldn't it, Tom? >> No, >> you're not coming. >> On Wednesdays, I I am booked all the way. >> On the third Wednesdays, you're committed. Okay. And then in December, we'll just do a
workshop. >> So November's going to be the meeting on the 18th. >> Yes. Correct. >> At 2:00. >> Yep. >> And I'm just putting this in my phone because I'm like, okay. So So and then we won't have anything until December.
And December is we had that set up as a workshop at 4 and meeting at 6. >> Two and four. >> Two and four. Okay. So that's still going to stay 2 o'clock. >> It's only going to be a workshop in December.
>> So no meeting. >> Sounds great. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Will you update our calendar and bring it back to our next meeting? >> Yes. That's what I was going to just say that I'm going to update the calendar. >> Make sure that everybody here understands what I just said because I
think I confused him. Okay. I definitely confused Commissioner Dylan. >> Yes, >> I was blonde underneath this gray. >> Well, I wasn't going to say that. >> Yes, that's what I was just going to say. What I'll do is I'll bring the updated calendar to the next meeting and then I'll also bring it to the regular
meeting where we used to and then that should be pretty good. >> Great. >> Okay. >> So, we did not have any public comment. If there's nothing further, it is 6:26 and we're adjourned. Part: 2
Good afternoon. Welcome to the board of commissioners budget workshop number four. Today is Wednesday, July the 22nd, 2026. It is 2 p.m. City Clerk, would you call the role, please? Mayor Brooks >> here.
>> Vice Mayor McGee >> here. >> Commissioner Taglerini >> here. >> Commissioner Dylan >> here. >> Commissioner Gabayi >> here. All are present. >> With no public in attendance, we will move on to discussion items. Fisc year 2027 budget workshop for presentation
and I will hand this to the finance director. >> Great. Thank you. So for today's session, we're going to focus on operating expenses. Uh first segment will just be some overview and highlights
uh amounts by fund by department. Um then we'll kind of get into the detail and we can kind of run through department by department. So if you have any questions on any particular line items, we can kind of go into um with the your department director
representatives or uh present to be able to answer any questions you have on why something might have changed from next year's budget to this past year's budget to actual information. So we can go through on a department by department basis and that's where we'll spend most
of our time. And then the last piece is just a precursor to our workshop meeting where we'll go through the fees and collections manual uh and some proposed changes. I want to spend some time in this budget workshop to walk through uh the storm water fee. So we'll talk a
little bit on just the storm water fund and the operating the the cost of operations around the storm water fund. what revenue is currently is being generated on an annual basis through the bimonthly uh utility billing performed
by Panelis County Utilities, the rate that's being charged, the revenues being generated, and then what we're proposing for the future. So, we'll go into that more detail. I know we've had discussions previously on that. then finish with Q&A and and then we'll plan for the August workshop where we'll be
the August budget workshop will be basically putting the whole budget document together. Thus far we've just done pieces right we've done the capital we've looked at personnel last session we looked we focused on revenues including ad valorum
taxes in greater detail um and so now this is the final piece is just the operating expenses and then the August is where we'll we'll put it all together okay so just looking at the revenue and expense budget overview for fiscal year
27 um we've got uh The the first kind of graphic is just your summary of revenues by fund. So this is we have all of our different funds. Archable building, debt service,
gas tax, general impact fee, local option, sales tax, marina, parking, sanitation, and storm water. So we've already covered this in our our last session, but wanted to kind of show you this again. We went through every individual general ledger account um
impacting revenues in each of these funds, but this is what it looks like uh overall. So that's your total revenues and other inflows of 32,430. And then the next page is your summary of expenses by fund for
total outflows. And so then the the um the the difference there is on a fund by fund basis. So for some funds the revenues budgeted revenues exceed revenues and other inflows exceed budgeted expenses on outflows and then
in other funds it's the opposite trend. So some operating at a deficit, some at a surplus. And so then the the the net of which is we're saying, hey, for certain funds, we got to pull money out of available reserves in order to balance this budget. Um so revenues and
other inflows plus budget reserves will equal budgeted outflows. And then for other funds, it's the opposite. Like common the common ones would be your marina fund and your parking fund that annually operate at a surplus. And then
we have budgeted revenues and inflows equals budgeted outflows plus uh reserves that are will be available for uh for future fiscal years. And so then that next page is really what reflects that. So that's what we see on
a fund by fund basis with Archabald building debt service. You've got your governmental um the title of is called the budget summary by character where we just kind of show u your basic categories of revenues, taxes, permits, fees, special assessments,
intergovernmental revenue, charges for services, and on down the road uh on down the line. And then your and then that plus any fund balance net position carryover that we have to use to balance by fund that gives your total sources.
And so you can see on a fund by fund basis total sources will equal total uses. What we don't want to see within a budget is the fund balance net position carryover is so high because we we have way more budget expenses than budgeted
revenues that we have to pull so much out of reserves to to balance the budget. So that that's kind of the warning area that we want to look at um to know that that fund balance net position carryover use number is too high then that would be of concern.
And so that's that breakout on a fund by fund basis between the governmental funds and the and the proprietary funds. As you can see, you've got some that will that are budgeted to operate at a surplus. So I mentioned before like
Marina Fund budgeted to drop 365,240 to the bottom line to to then build up his reserves for next year. Harking fund, same thing, 1.4 million. >> Andrew, may I ask a question? Yeah, sure. >> Um, I I know we should try to make every
effort to balance the budgets at the end of the calculation, but looking at individual parts of it, it just hard for me to believe that for instance, Archable Park, the uh revenue is let's
say 577,000, but the expenditures are like 14 uh one.4 4 million. So, I mean, we have to find a way to mitigate that. We can't just say, "All
right, well, you know, we're balancing this with some other aspects of the work." Um, I don't know what the rest of the commission mayor thinks about that, but there are a few items that I'm looking at and we are um in the in the red and
I'm saying, well, you know, why should that be acceptable and why wouldn't we try to come up with ideas to at least not have so much deficit? Um, you know, 577,000
versus 1.4 for mill is quite a bit of a difference. Um, >> great point. So, those are these are kind of your at your high level some funds that we can look at. I mean, you've got Archer Ballpark at a at a budgeted deficit of 874,000.
The building fund, for example, a budget deficit of 1.1 was 1.2 million. So, those are ones that Yeah, we can and we can dig into those in greater detail, especially on the expense side and walk through those that
are um more on a on a on a operating at a deficit. >> And we can we can speak to each. I mean, we've got your public works director here, your community development director here that can, you know, speak to the expenses and and kind of the state of affairs in each of those funds. Okay.
>> Thank you. Well, so then why don't we do that? So that if a after this budget summary, um we just then go into each of the individual departments. So we've got again just a overview of our general
fund revenue and other inflows. um showing some specifics there and then expenditures by um by character and then expenditures by department. So we have that general fund
expenditure summary expendure outflows by department. So you can see what we're proposing to spend in each department. So then that takes us to the expenses budget detail. And so then here we give some comparative analysis. You can start
asking the questions of any particular line item or department to say gee wait a minute why did this increase right? Take the first line board of commissioners we have a proposed increase of the FY26 adopted was 81,600
8 and FY2027 propo proposed is 87,200. So, but not not a very significant increase, but you can see >> what p what page are you on? >> Sorry, I pulled up the PDF. Is the uh city of Madiraa Beach budget workshop summary by fund and department?
>> Thank you. >> The uh I keep going down >> page 13, I believe. >> It It's page 11 of the >> I think it's page 13. So, this page has the page I'm on right here.
Oh, nobody does. >> No, keep going. >> So, we can kind of at least look for right now to see. Okay. Well, we can kind of see the um just a comparison on the 2026 to the 2027
and see a lot of them are very comp comparable. And then you can see some where there's some increases and somewhere there's some decreases. And we can dig into that on an account by account basis as we go down the list. So maybe what we can do is just start and go department by department. I can
just pause, let you see the the page that has all the personnel and operating and capital expenses. And then if there's anything you all want to ask about or inquire further or make comments, we can go just do a quick
pause after each uh department um to address those. So then that starts on the budget workshop detail by fund department and account. So that's starting with board of commissioners.
And so we're just going to go right down the line. So you can see it always will start um with personnel because the way the account structure just to kind of explain how the account structure works you see the fund and then the department and the account
number account description. So the fund we're starting with general fund first and all the different departments in the general fund and then the account is a three segmented string. The the first three digits is the fund number. O1 is general fund.
The middle segment is the department ID. So 13 department 1310 is board of commissioners. And then the account number the first one 51301 is the actual account itself like the
what what the expense is that salaries commission. And so it's in order of by um sorted by account number. So your your lowest numbers like the 51s, the 52s, those are personnel related
expenses. And then the 53s, 54s, 55s are operating. And then your 56s is capital. And then like 58s, 59s, that's kind of like other uses. So you can see here on board of commissioners, that's where we start at at salaries and taxes and benefits. Then
go into the 53s and 54s and 55 fives. as you're operating and then etc on down the line. So I'm going to pause just for a few seconds. Any questions, concerns, comments on
board of commissioners? Hearing none, then uh the next one. And so that's a total uh budget 87,200 compared to 81,600 in the prior year. And then the next is city clerk.
>> So I have a question on the city clerk. So I mean and I I probably could have asked the same question or a similar question on the city clerk. The salary and wages when you go down to the line by line the fiscal year 2024 actual was
almost 470,000. and the next year was 473,000. This year it is we've adopted 265,000 and are projecting 278 for next year. That's a huge difference. What changed in the city clerk's office for an almost
$200,000 difference? I mean, I'm not complaining because it's less, but it's a huge difference. And we have the same I thought we had the same amount of people. >> I think that the 25 and all was all the
we had a lot of volunteers during the hurricane. I don't know. >> We paid them out of the clerk's office. >> I really don't know. >> I mean that >> we don't set the salary that's done by finance. So, and I I don't I couldn't tell you,
but I do know there was overtime due to having to uh give out supplies after the hurricanes and stuff. >> They had to work to 8:00 at night. So, that's $200,000 in 2024 difference. And the hurricane
didn't happen until September, so that can't be >> Okay. >> Can you >> do you know what that is? >> I'm trying to look that up now. I don't have access to payroll records on me currently, but I can see if there's anything in the
in the budget that if there was a position that was associated with clerk >> um but why don't we keep Great question. And then yes, >> where there's a pause, maybe I'll continue to research and see if I can find something that
>> that's the uh that's that's driving that. >> I mean, the social security's got a $14,000 difference from 2425 and then into 26. So, and FRS has a large difference from 24
to 26. Although I think in 24 might have been the year that we initiated FRS. It was either 23 or 24 we did that. I think >> that's my guess is that we made an F FRS
conversion and I know there was a big hit for certain departments to make that ICMA to FRS conversion. >> That was my knee-jerk is what that was my guess of >> of why that is. >> Yeah. Um, I'm just trying to look up
just a personnel roster, but I think that was, you know, that it definitely cost the city and to some departments 100,000, couple hundred thousand. Um, I see that in both both years though and there could have been a
carryover effect, but um I will I will continue to research and see if I can find something. Anything else on clerk Okay. Um the next is city manager. So
914,000 um budgeted for 2027 compared to 1.3 million budgeted in uh 26. 24 actual 1.7
25 actual 2 million and then you can see the differences by each GL account. Any questions you want to run through on that one? hearing none. Next is
community development. Uh 1.3 million budgeted for 27 compared to 1 million budget 26 1.5 1.7 million actual and 24 and 25. No questions on that. Finance is next.
Cons pretty consistent last year. This year 766 budgeted 26 787 budgeted 27. >> So I have a question. So the consistency is that the salaries salary and wages been consistent through the different
departments was really high in 24 and 25 and then drops down in 26. But the F FRS was really high in 24 and 25 and then drops by half of the 25 and 26. So when we did that F FRS conversion, did that
show up in the regular class line as well as in salaries? Let me check the actual numbers. Um I'm checking for each department because I am seeing that variance pretty consistent across um
prior years. It very well could have been that this system pulled in incorrect salaries and wages numbers. So, I'm checking that now. Um, and if so, then I'll
then it'd be better to compare the 26 to 27 budget if the salaries and wages are not accurate for 24 and 25. So, I'm checking that now. But irrespective of prior year's actuals, any questions on the the
budgeted figures for um for 26 for 2027 and finance. If not, we'll move to fire. And so in fire and EMS, we actually have that broken out now into two different
departments. I know we talked about that. We have department 4000 and then down below is is the Readington station um for department 4020. So we don't have those are all vacant positions
currently um in Readington, but we're looking I believe Clint, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it is I believe six vacant positions for the Readington stations. Andrew, that um $1 million for Readington Station, is that our portion
of the total fee? In other words, other cities contribute. I'm sure >> you're saying our budget expenses in Reading Stations, which is about 1,28,860. >> Yes. >> So, Clint, do you want to expand on how we're going to get um funded for that?
This Yeah. Mayor, vice mayor, commission. Um, so to fund the Readington station, we get approximately 800,000 from the county for providing the medical services and that's why the station is being named the Readington
EMS station, not fire station. And then in our interlocal agreements, we um our half of the agreement is roughly 310,000. So add the 800 and the 310 and that's where we get the 1.1 1.2 give or take.
And that more than enough to fund the uh new hires. And speaking with Andrew, we just wanted to to separate the two to to show that we are doing it with non Adira Beach resident money.
>> Thank you. Okay. When you get down into the um account number section and you look at the Readington station's not separated out there, is it? So that's
>> all are just under salaries together. >> The writing station. No, but it is separated. So if you go if you scroll down after public works administration, then there's recreation. >> Okay. So it's not up near the um I'm I hadn't gotten that far down. So I see
it's not up where the fire department is. Can that be >> can that be readjusted so that when you're looking at the line items for the fire that the Readington falls directly under it? because you would look at those together in tandem if you were
comparing numbers if there's a way to sort that. >> The way I presented it was just alphabetized certain board of commissioners then clerk and >> ABCD but yeah on the actual budget book >> presentation. >> Okay. >> Um 400
Okay. So, it looks like in the 24 and 25 column, I don't know why our was these AI generated figures, it was the exactly double the it basically doubled the amount. So, I apologize for that.
uh inaccuracy in the 2425 actual but your 26 adopted correct and the 27 proposed is correct. The 2425 actuals um doubled up the figures um why it did that I'm not sure. So I'll check that but rest assured for your
August the actual book will have correctly presented 24 and 25 figures. So, >> so, >> so when you're in the fire EMS, um, so you're speaking just to salaries or you're speaking that that could have happened in other areas also. >> It looks consistent across the board.
>> Okay, I would agree. >> So, the So, right, because electric bills are 27 28,000 and it's dropped down to 16 and 17 for this year and next. Yeah, I think what it did is it said, "Okay, here's the amount and here's like
maybe add it to a balance and and and enter double the figure." So, just looking at 24 25 just look at half of half of that is what it would be for comparative purposes, but I apologize for not catching that.
Um so then fire EMS and then next is uh human resources. So this is one salary and wages. We just have 115,000. So that's as we talked about in our previous personnel element is going to be the hiring of the HR
director. And then the remaining cost there. So budget last year 148,000 and then actual or excuse me and then budget for 27 is 240,000. So most of that difference a lot of the
difference is the is the additional personnel cost we're carrying. But to offset, we reduced professional services from 50,000 down to 10,000. I believe some of that might have been recruiting fees and other things that were adjusting down, but there will be
some higher costs in that department for the um for the HR director. But all in all, just looking comparatively, that's the main difference there. And then the next is law enforcement.
So from 1 1,866 to 1,964. That's largely just uh due to the just the contractual cost increase with um with Penllis County for the sheriff sheriff's office services. And I believe that's going on a workshop today.
>> Yeah, that's a 6.05% increase from last year. And then for we just we kept the city attorney cost um as is same for now. Maybe before August we might make some
final adjustments um pending the um agreement for um TR services going forward that we might tweak that just a little bit. um to increase. But otherwise, we would we
would normally consider the keep the uh legal services cost consistent from year to year. Then the next non-EP departmental. So this one kind of has some can can fluctuate
Obviously, you see in the FY2026 adopted revised budget, you've got an $18 million budget item that is a one time. So, that's the land. Um, so that's why from the
26 adopted of 20 million compared to the adopted budget to the 27 proposed of 2.8 8 million. That's a huge $18 million difference. But you take out that land purchase and it's pretty comp comparable year to ear.
And then the next is parks. So those are pretty just base consistent recurring costs year-over-year. So not much of a difference from last year's budget to this 73,100 to 75,500. And then in public works admin
comparing FY26 budget to 27 um a decrease and that's largely due to the Gulf Boulevard undergrounding that was budgeted to conclude in fiscal year 26.
We had 250,000 budgeted uh for Gulf Boulevard undergrounding in 26, not recurring in 27. Otherwise, comparing one year to the next, um overall pretty comparable.
Um, one thing I did miss that I I wanted to make sure you're aware of, if you scroll back up to non-EP departmental, it's after legal services. So you have salaries and wages that have we've never had salaries and wages and
taxes, benefits, any personnel cost and non-EP departmental. But what we're proposing is for the facilities and projects coordinator position since that individual is going to be crossutilized among so many of our different departments that'll be kind of managed largely by the city manager and and
since it's kind of far far reaching across funds departments. We just park we're parking that budgeted position in non-EP departmental. So be charged out of the general fund, non-EP departmental. And then we have that administrative services allocation that we do where the general fund through
budgeted transfer in and out between the general fund and other um governmental funds and and the our enterprise funds. Those will absorb that cost through that administrative allocation. But that's where we're housing the um
the facilities and project coordinator position which will be new for fiscal year 27. So in the non-dep departmental um what is software support services that went from $2,400 in 24 to $26,000
for this year and 23 and a half for next. What is what is under support services for software? Uh, let me pull that up. So it comments here Proud City $1,500. Smarsh $5,000. Placer
AI $13,000 and an Adobe subscription for $4,000. So the Placer AI we're charging that to non-EP departmental, but it's actually was purchased for recreation. So would
we in the I mean we've been talking about getting things charged out to where they belong instead of just having it in the non-EP departmental so that better understanding of transparency where we're spending our money. >> Um shouldn't that not be there?
>> That's valid if it's used for recreation purposes. >> Yeah, I I would think so. Unless we're using it for something else, which right now we're using it. I think the last thing that we used it for was the um the uh garage study, but yes, we would
we would normally put that into the recreation. >> So if >> for grants that was really for the grants and and how do we justify it would be that way. So in that case, if you um had a piece of software like this that we purchased it initially for use
of the rec of recreation, knowing at the time that it could be used by community development from time to time, would you just charge that out to community development for whatever amount of time they used it or? >> Yeah, would figure out some kind of a
Yeah, would be some kind of a percentage. I think that the farther we can get away from putting things just under the general fund and to be specific to where it's actually going, understanding that we do we do move money around from the general fund to
pay for things and that we're not looking just to clarify, not looking for recreation or any other department to be independently self-sufficient other than the ones that we have set up for that intent. But it gives the commission and the community a better understanding of what we're doing for the community,
where we're spending, where we're saving, and how that money is being utilized for tax dollar purposes, especially in light of the fact that we're facing a ballot change of taxes so that we can easily better understand. I've said before, and I'll just say
this, I think our budget is so extremely difficult for anyone to understand the dollars. I mean, it I served on the budget committee and I still have a hard time with the way that we do some of it and it I understand it
but anything that we could do that would make it easier for the general public to be able to understand what they're looking at I think would be hugely beneficial. So for some of those particular ones that are clearly utilized by maybe two departments then we can just simply allocate it and say okay here's the
total cost. So this much is going to be absorbed by this department or this department. >> I think that's a great idea. >> And if one that's clearly if one department is the real owner and the one using it, then it would be all allocated to that one department.
Non-EP departmental is where we park it where it's just got a very large broad general um application across the city. But we can look harder those certain expenses that appear to be more department specific. And just because it's been doing it that way in the past doesn't mean we should be doing it that
way going forward. >> And I understand it'll take I mean you can't change this overnight. So it's >> Yeah, we'll certainly look at that more um more acutely to make sure we can find those things and charge them to their
proper place. Okay. uh we talked about public works admin and then next is recreation whereas the 27 proposed budget is 1.7 million
um compared to about 1.58 million from 2026 and then 29 or 25 actual about 1.45 million and same thing with 24 actual about 1.45 1.5
million spent. So like on recreation under capital improvements I would I would think that um is that what whatever the number is whether this is doubled or or what have you >> everything everything's doubled.
>> Okay. So capital improvements for 2024 and 2025 would have potentially been from hurricane damage because we didn't do any capital improvements in recreation other than we did do um repairs to the building. So,
would that be what that particular dollar amount is? >> Yeah, good question. Let's let me pull that up. Um, exactly. So, let's do capital. I and I would I would also guess Oh well
maybe not because so the capital improvements like 63,000 was spent 150,000 was budgeted in 2025
and of that 63,000 spent and I can go dig into the details and see it's pulling it up. >> I I was just curious. I would I would have thought that that's what it was due to the storm. >> Uh potentially um >> because we have nothing for this year or
next year. So, the largest expense was 44,000 with Smith Industries. I'm guessing that was fence >> ballpark due to the hurricane >> damage.
>> I I do see the I'm sorry, Andrew, I did miss I do see the line item for building maintenance. So, that's probably where the what I'm speaking about went to. >> Well, the fence replacement was capital. So that that was capital because we're actually replacing a fence versus repairing a damaged fence.
>> Yep. >> Um since we ripped out the fence and put in a brand new one, that would have been a disposal of the old fence and put in in a new capital item. >> So from the hurricane, a lot of it was repairs and maintenance, there were certain things where if something we just had to get replaced, like a new vehicle, that would have been capital
versus repairing the existing structure, infrastructure or piece of equipment. Um so it could have been capital, it could have been repairs and maintenance depending on the nature of the um of the fix or the replacement. >> Okay. Thank you. >> But that's what happened in 25.
>> How did the salaries go in half from 24 to 26? >> So again this the when the when we pulled when I pulled the data from the system using AI I don't know why it but every single balance in the 24 and 25
column is exactly double. So if you want to do a comparative of 24 25 actual and 26 and 27 budget, just take half of the number that you see in each line item 24 and 25. So I apologize for that presentation discrepancy.
>> Okay. Everything you see there really okay and yeah, sorry I did not catch that. um prior to publishing. But rest assured the 26 adopted 27 proposed numbers are correct and then 24
and 25 are correct to exactly half and I've just double triple checked multiple ones and yes it's exactly double. >> Okay. So then did we hire somebody new this year? >> That's 100,000 increase. >> Which fund are you talking which
department? I'm I'm still with the um um public works recreation went from 5273 to 6331. So no, a lot of that was due to the the salary study and so I think there was
some late changes to pay rates. If you were those of you who were on that here last year at this time, we were still going through the final phases of the salary study and then made >> that was never really completed for what we paid for.
>> The salary study was garbage. >> As far as I'm concerned, we did not get what we paid for. >> We did not get what we paid for. We paid them to do things that they did not do. It was um just a side note.
>> So is that in the amount of the salaries? Was that study? >> It changed salaries. Yeah. So they did a salary study of what people should have been making. But there were things that they were supposed to do which that's not the conversation for now. But they were supposed to write job descriptions
and they did not. And we asked for that and we that's no one here's fault. But we didn't get it. >> Yeah. >> But that but there's not a any a headcount increase in the recreation
department from 26 budget to 27 budgeted. The 27 budget is based on the 2026 actual pay rates currently being paid. But at this time last year, those pay rates were lower because the salary um as a result of the salary study that
increased a number of recreation um department employees. So then for the next meeting, could we have a factual sheet comparison like 24 25 26 and 27?
I mean because if 24 25 we got to divide by half so it's not really real. And then the 26 27 is correct. >> Yes, you'll have you'll have for each department you'll have 24 25
26 budget 27 proposed. The 26 budget is 2527,300. The 27 proposed budget is 633,100. So, but I I will correct the 25 24 and 25 figures um to to the to the correct
amounts. >> Okay. Thank you. I mean because like I say like Amry's more knowledgeable with this than I am and it's just like I'm I'm >> Well, your question is legitimate. Your question is why do we budget 2527,026
and now we're budgeting 633,100? Who else did we hire? Because that's about one more FTE, right? About 80,000. And the answer is we didn't. We just had pay rate pay adjustments. >> That didn't get factored into the 26 budget that they were with that increase
in pay happened during 2026. Um and now we're basing those new pay rates to formulate our 2027 budget um figures. >> That makes sense, Chuck. So the 2026 adopted budget is not really what has
actually been spent. It's just what was budgeted a year ago as to what's going to happen this year. >> Correct. 2026 isn't over yet. So we're only about 9 months and change through the year. So we only have partial
actuals for 2026. So that's why I think 24 and 25 actuals are very important to be very close to exact of what they supposed to be because
we're seeing these. Okay. So $100,000 Whoops. is >> so 2024 actual Yeah. Let's dig into the figures. So 2024 actual for recreation salaries was 468,000. 2025 actual
was 493,000. Budgeted 26 is 527,000. Budgeted 27 is 633,000. And then also in the full budget book and we went over this in personnel where we we gave you the kind of the roster of
of proposed employees both vacant and filled positions. So we in a previous workshop we did some detail on on the who and how many people by department total budgeted costs per department for all the salaries and the benefits and
the taxes and in the budget book that we'll be providing for the August workshop that'll have all that detail um will have some personnel figures as well some like multi-year comparison of of FTEES.
>> Okay. I mean, but as I'm looking at this, so for Joe Blow, average resident is looking at this and they're thinking, "Wow, this is crazy." So, this is what we've published for everybody to read
and it's absolutely wrong. >> You talk about the 24 and the 25 actuals. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I I couldn't apologize more. I'm so sorry that I doubled those figures in this. I don't know why the agent that I used to
develop this doubled that and I missed that. I I'm so sorry for that. >> Okay. Well, I mean, you know, and like I say, that's what we're representing 4,000 people, you know, and if they go through all this and I knew that one person that used to live here and they left, I mean, you know, so she was an
accountant person and and was always talking about the budget. I mean, I was just like, it's the budget. And so, but now this is what is out in the public and it's almost embarrassing. So, I mean I, you know, things happen, but you
know, we've got to account for it. >> Sure. >> Okay. Moving on. I think we covered recreation. Uh now Readington Station I know we talked about so we have no historical
information on Readington Station ex his historical expenses because we created that department 4020 taking note we'll in the budget book we prepare that'll have the um we'll put
that right after fire EMS and then these are our budget figures for Reggington station so So that 512,300 is the um budgeted personnel figures for
uh six vacant positions. And then the next is the local option sales tax. So we have we have that fund but we also have multiple departments that we track the project and equipment costs by not only that fund but also
department. Um, so for 2027, we've got very little budgeted for the for the lost fund, just $100,000 for um for fire EMS. Then the next is the impact fee fund.
and the impact fee fund as you know we've been collecting revenues since we've launched uh impact fees since I believe 2023 or 2024 um I believe 2023 and so we have not
allocated any expenses project related eligible expenses yet and we don't have any budgeted dollars to do that yet but we could always do that either through this budget process if there's any projects that you want to allocate
impact fee dollars to or um we can always do an amendment during 2027 if there is an eligible project that we want to use impact fee dollars for. But right now nothing budgeted for impact fees.
Then the next is the Archabald Park Fund. So 2027 um budgeted 1.45 million and then budgeted in 2026 was about 2.2 million. And so I know
this was a fund that Commissioner Govi mentioned. We really only have one revenue source for that and that is the um parking related revenues at the at Archer Bald Park
which let me pull that up but uh generates between5 $600,000 of revenue. So, there's a lot of things though that get paid out of the Archabald fund that aren't actually done at Archeald Park. I think that's a good clarification for
the commissioner also is that that fund pays for a lot of things that aren't really at that park. It funds uh there's employees that it funds that don't work at that park all day. There's if you look through all of
these uh fees that are charged out to Archerald, that's it. That's not some It's something that Archabald can be charged out for, but it's not really something that Archabald could pay for without parking because the like the snack shack
hasn't been rented since 2024. And even when it is rented, it's not a hugely, you know, it's not a profitable, it's more of a community provision. >> True. So the Archal Archal park that
fund is those expenses cover all of our maintain maintenance of our parks and Megan can expand on that as far as its its reach but that includes both parks related employees plus the operations of
that and the parking revenues that that we're pulling is just for the Archer Bowl um parking lot. So, we spend $40,000 a year on trimming trees. Is that just in Archabald or
that's in It's in other parks, isn't it, Megan? >> I think that's the part. So, there's that's the part that can be um difficult because when you look at Archabald and you're looking, if you were just anybody on the outside looking, you would think
everything that was associated was something done at Archeald. I know that's not the case. some you know it but it's not it's not a easily understood. >> Good afternoon mayor and commission. So Archbald Park covers the easiest way for
me to put that the maintenance of every park except for John's Pass Village. John's Pass Village is the only park that is not paid for from this fund. So, the tree trimming takes care of every location including Rock Park except for
John's Pass Village, includes all of Gulf Boulevard, all of 150th, all of those areas. So, as Andrew stated, it's not just Arch Ballpark, >> but the revenue is still 577, right?
>> I'm going to defer to Andrew on that. uh the the revenue. So that's the Archabald Beach parking meters. So that was budgeted 550,000 um last year and this year. Right now we're
already at 446,000 uh for 2026 year to date. 2025 was only 383,000, but that was due to the impact of the hurricane that that was that lot was
full of sand for a number of months before we actually opened it. So, we're looking to exceed, you know, current year actual 446,000 3 months left. It will be more in the 600,000
range of of revenue from those parking meters. and we budgeted 550,000. That's the primary revenue source. Then we also have the um beach walkover chair rentals which was just budgeted at $12,000 and then some minor interest
earnings. >> So to take off of Megan, our Chabald fund covers all the parks in the city. So the revenue for that park is 577,000
or for the parks in the city is 577,000. The actual cost to maintain all of that in the entire city is almost $1.5 million.
So you have to take general funds, tax dollars to feed into that to be able to you'll never be able in my mind I don't believe that you can ever see Archabald actually bringing in a million half
dollars. But if you recognize that it's not just Archabald Park and it's all the parks in the city, I think that makes it a little bit more understandable in understanding that although you look at this and it says Archabald 1 and a.5 million, I'm rounding up and it's only
making a half a million, you're funding through the general fund to make up the difference to take care of all the parks in the city. >> And that that's not readily understood just looking at the data here. I can understand the general fund, but I I mean having a difficult time understanding
>> taking away something from a department that doesn't have >> theoretically. >> Is that good though? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Thank you, Megan. >> Thank you. So then next is the building fund
that pretty consistent from the 26 budget to the 27 budget. 1.9 million um 1.96 million budgeted in 27 1.9 million budgeted in 26
and about 1.3 million spent in um 25 and similar spent in before and I think the the larger the large the largest increase in the building fund will be just in the increase in salaries
for the new positions the the the building official um and some things we went over in our in our personel session um workshop on the building department positions, but I've got that date if you want to
ask any questions on positions or any particular line items. If nothing else on that, then the next is the debt service. And so that's just the to serve the provide debt service on the um
outstanding general fund debt that we have for the series 2013 bonds that was to build this facility. And so the general debt service fund gets to transfer in from the general fund and then pays the debt service uh
principle and interest out of the debt service fund. Then the next is the gas tax fund. This is just some operating for our maintenance on sign street signs, lights, traffic signals
that we get some gas tax money for or very minor part of the city's overall operation from a budget standpoint. Then the next is the marina fund. So all of the
store purchases, fuel purchases, that's all in the re in revenues as is netted against um revenues. So what we see in expenses here for this marina budget is just purely the personnel costs and then um operational costs outside of store
and fuel purchases and uh 400,000 for capital improvements. >> Capital improvements would have been the seaw wall.
No. What were or or fuel? >> So, the past two years with seaw wall, the 400,000, I believe, Andrew, we just put that in. That'll be for the construction and everything of these docks back here. We're going to go ahead and push through permitting and design and everything this year. We we're just
going to get moving on it. >> And then that way we can go searching for grants and everything. Starting in January, we're going to have everything kind of together so we can go out and try to get these grants that are available. >> Awesome. Thank you, Krabby. >> Then next is the parking fund.
Uh 1.8 uh million budgeted in in 2020 7. In 2026, it shows 4.3 million, but we have that carryover from last year that we finalized when we adopted the budget. That was for the 2.67 million. That's
not really a a true budget expense. That was just the reserves carried over into the next year. So the the net on the 26 is is basically 1.7 million. So pretty comparable 1.669
million compared to the 1.812 million um for this year. So a pretty consistent budget for the parking fund year-over-year. And then the next is sanitation. So again, pretty comparable at 2.4 million budgeted for 27 compared to 2
million budgeted for uh 26. And I think that the main diff the real the main difference on that is the capital equipment. Um 60,000 budget in 26 and 400,000 budget in 27. Otherwise, pretty consistent
year-over-year and then storm water next. So again, that one can that fluctuates quite a bit just based on this uh the capital section.
So in our drainage and roadway improvement budget, we had 9.5 million budget in 26, 4.9 million now budgeted in 27 for our capital related expenses on those. And if you want to go any details on that, we can dig through
that. But that's just the um completion of area projects and starting new area projects and just timing of those budget expenses. Otherwise, pretty consistent overall
on the uh on the operating side. So, any questions on 27 operating budgeted figures or even capital personnel? >> Not not to beat not to be a dead horse, but just to be clear that doubling continues all the way to the bottom line
to the total for the 20 24 actual 2025 actual. Is that correct? >> And and and only on the total, not in the line items. >> No, all the line items are double. are correct. >> The line items are all doubled. >> Yeah, everything's doubled >> on the just on the 24 and 25.
>> I'm late to the party. Sorry. I just >> got it. Thank you. >> Okay. I've got one question. >> No, just for for every for every line item, the the 24 actual and the 25 actual is double every figure you see is double what it should be.
So that will get corrected for the 26 U and I will send out I can send out a corrected deliverable for and email it to you all just for this particular deliverable. >> Okay. So I was paying not as much attention here. Something caught my eye.
cell phones and I was going through for next year we're allocating over $75,000 for cell phones and over $42,000
for telephone service. Is that serious? >> Which department are you looking in? >> All of them. Building fund 6,000 AR an uh Archbald 750 public works 4200 law enforcement
a,000 fire 6500 finance 300 city manager 8,000 clerk 700 board of commissioners 3,000 next one's 3500 parking $40,000
for cell phone water storm water $1,500. 00 and then the general fund has telephone 39,500 and then fire I think has 3,000. I mean
I know cell phones are necessary but my >> I just wanted to add a comment about that. I can speak for my departments and I think I know there's a couple others. We have MI fees like little Wi-Fi those
are included in that as well. Um, and we also do cell phone stipens. I know my department does cell phone stipens. Not every one of my employees has a cell phone, but if I use it to communicate with them throughout the day, we do a cell phone stipen, which is also in that number.
>> And And didn't wasn't there a time previous with a previous city manager that we did away with phones at the desk and did every employee has a cell phone. So instead of having a phone sitting at your desk where you have to sit there and be tied to your desk, anywhere you
go, they have their phone with them. They can answer the phone is one of the I don't know why we would still have such a high desk phone fee, but that's >> I do not have office phones in my department. >> So maybe you could dig into that for us and give Commissioner Dylan some >> Yeah, I mean
>> understanding. It it's it's Yeah, I mean you'll we should buy a telephone service. I mean, you know, $75,000 in cell phones. And granted, everybody needs to have cell phones. I mean, you know, but it's just like, wow. I, you know, and and I don't know how that
caught my eye, but it was just like, okay, so, you know, it's it's parking 40,000. I can speak on behalf of the recreation department. So, we do still have desk phones cuz not everybody in our department has a has a cityissued cell
phone. So, we still have the the desk phones up front and all the desks in the back. And as well, we have three cell phones for the director, the person who runs events. And then we have a phone that goes uh with the child with the kids with the children's program that goes on all the field trips with them if there's an issue. Um they can
communicate parents if necessary. And then we also have tablets as well that we utilize for childcare and that's how we track and those are self cell self cell self cell self cell self cell self cell self cell self cell self cell self cell self-service based tablets running off of of data service and that's how we track where kids are in what groups. So if I have one kid that goes from
commissioner Dylan's group to the mayor's group. It it we switch the kids on the tablet so we have an exact account of what kids are in what group at all times. >> That makes sense. >> Well and that's what it is. I'm just looking. I I mean, you know, it just it seems like a big number, but then if you
take 110 employees and that's just kind of like a round number, $75,000, that comes up to $700. Okay, so $700 for a year is not that extravagant for a cell phone service. I mean, you know, it just
the total of what we budgeted is $49,610 across all departments. actual year-to-ate cost is $23,000 uh or excuse me 26,111
is actual year-to- date 2026 budgeted 2027 is what I said $49,000 and change $49,610. >> Well, did I misread the parking? >> I think you said $45,000 for parking. It
I it does show $4,500 for parking parking management. >> Okay. Like I say, I I'm I'm just going through this real quickly trying to grab the things and and I misrote it down. I wrote it as 4 40,000. So,
>> I was just going to weigh in too that the building department, we also use tablets that have cell service as well and they have to u be able to look at the inspectors need to be able to open up plans in the field. So, those are pretty, you know, robust tablets to be able to do that. So, that's another
expense that falls into that too. Well, I mean, but like I say, you know, and and the amount of employees we have, everybody is, you know, everybody has to have a cell phone. And so, uh, I understand that. And then doing the
math. I mean, you know, I'd get my phone out, but I don't want to be called that. I'm using mine. I don't have a calculator here to do the math. So, um, you know, it's just >> Okay. So I I would point out that if we look at our budget, if you just look at
the bottom line budget for 2024, including all the capital projects, and then you look at what we're budgeting for this year, including all the capital projects, it's a 28% increase. So you look at all the numbers, 28.23%
increase. So when you look at all the numbers as they are changing and going and um of course last year our budget was much much higher because of the fire station but it's we're pretty consistent in what we're doing even with adding the
staff that we've added. I mean that that number is because it does include capital projects from 24 includes what we're projecting for 27 and what's in there, but there's a 28% difference from 24 to 27 and what we're projecting to
spend. Well, I mean, and I agree going back to the original pages six and seven, the pie chart, okay, we we had uh total revenues of 374874781 and the outflow is 37471. So, basically, the only difference is
we're going to have to have another $2,000, not even 2,000 out of the fund with no the fund balance net position. So all in all, I think we're good. So it's m a matter of moving it from one one pocket
to the other. And so, you know, I I didn't really decipher all these things before, but >> didn't the legislature um is requiring that we show where we could cut 10% from our budget?
>> That's not in effect yet, but >> not in effect, but it's going to. >> That's coming. Are we going to are we going to have to do that this year for this year's budget or will that start for next year's budget >> required to start next year? I mean we can certainly have
>> we don't have to cut the percentage. We just have to show that we could >> evaluation. Yes. um in in um in being present in what's going on in some of some of the other communities. I think it's going to be in our best interest to do those exercises
and look at to show that we don't have the the the fat. I mean, our operating budget is what $17,000 or $17 million a year to operate the city. best to keep the lights on and everything else is something we're doing within the city
whether we're building something or fixing a road or what have you. And I think those are important numbers to look at so that we especially for the public to understand what it takes to keep the lights on in Madira Beach and what we're doing for
projects to in increase and improve the level of service and quality of life that we have here. not level of service but quality of life, roads, whether it's building maintenance etc. Okay. So then the next section is um
just the storm water fee comparative analysis. So just wanted to provide some as we as again a precursor to our uh workshop agenda item on the fees and collection manual. It's been many years since we've updated
our storm water fee. We know that's one of the the the larger ticket items is the storm water capital improvement costs. While we don't necessarily say we need to have a fee that's going to that's going to be able to absorb all of the next year's capital improvement
cost, at least we want that to absorb the the debt the annual debt service requirement that we currently have plus operations, which would be your personnel and your um and your operating expenses.
So, we feel we're we're getting closer to that by doubling the the fee, which is currently $10 a month um to um for a single family home unit to 20,000 or
excuse me to $20 uh a month. And so, just showing what that looks like in a comparison of just Panelis Beach community. So, we got those rates for the different um communities. Treasure Island, Largo, St. Pete Beach, Readington Beach, Bair
Beach, Madira Beach, North Readington Beach, and Readington Shores. Uh St. Pete, St. Pete Beach doesn't charge that on its utility bill. They charge that one of two ways you can assess your storm water fee. either as a uh
assessment on the tax bill and so you'll collect that all at once or when you basically collect property taxes or it can be applied to the utility bill. So most of these communities, all of them in fact except for St. Pete Beach um
charges on the utility bill and then St. Pete Beach and I checked the 2025 tax rule for a number of um property owners in St. PP and I continue to get the same number and that was I think um
185 dollars or so um that was charged as as part of the tax bill. >> Andrew, do you know how long it's been since we increased our storm water fee? >> It was 2014. >> 2014. We
>> we think I I can verify that. Megan, do you know by chance? >> It went into effect October 1st, 2014. So, fiscal year 2015. >> So, it's >> Do you remember what it was before 2014? >> $5 and then it doubled.
>> Thank you. >> So, at $10, this fund does not support itself anywhere near paying for itself. at $20,
where are we at in supporting itself? >> Yeah, good question. So, let me I can pull up um and just and just going back to our budget workshop from um from last time
when we did that kind of operating analysis. I'll pull back those um workshop details. So for the storm water fund total charges for services was very consistent. FY2021 was 691,000.
2022 was 684,000. 2023 was 678,000. 2024 was 693,000. 2025 was $680,000. So we're just right there in the 680 to $690,000. So let's just assume if we go from $10
to $20, we're roughly doubling. Maybe that's not quite the math, but but more or less. So if that's on average 685,000* 2, now we're at 1.3 almost 1.4 million.
How do we compare with cities nearby? >> Sure. Let me address that. I'll just finish the analysis real quick and then I'll address that. So our debt service alone is 1.4
million is 1.5 million 21 1.5 million 1.49 1. It's about 1.5 million. Right? our personnel costs historically over the last five years of audited data. So I'm not even counting this year because we the
year hasn't ended yet. So let's look at actual not even budgeted because actual may not reflect budget. So to me the best thing to go on is what actually happened over the last four years in this department completely irrespective of the our project activity. Right? So
taking out any of the capital improvement costs. So just personnel costs ranged from 26 and 54,000 to uh 300ish,000. So on average we're about let's say
300,000 in personnel costs. Um and then operating ranged in the 100 to 200,000. So let's say maybe if we're averaging that out 180,000 plus the debt service at about 1.5 million and then we
do the administrative service allocation out to the general fund which is range about 50,000 to 100,000. So if I add all that take all kind of average that over that five years we said 300,000 for personnel
let's say 180,000 for operating uh plus the debt service of 1 million500,000 plus the transfer out of about 100,000.
So that's about 2 million and if we double our fee we'll get to about 1.4 million. So, we're we're getting there. We're a lot closer on the right track um to getting closer to break even in the storm water fund. So, certainly there's the just from a pure cost analysis,
there's justification to do that. Um does it now to Commissioner Gavay's point, does that make us highly inequitable when evaluating other communities? So, from the information I'm sharing in this
workshop, the answer is no. If you look at Treasure Island, so that's the um second or third to last page of our of the workshop materials. Uh Treasure Island about 20 almost $26 a
month. Largo 17, St. Pete Beach 15. So, I confirmed it's about 183,000 or SC1 183 to $185 a year that gets assessed on the tax bill. Um, and I confirm that for about three or four
different tax bills I saw from 2025. Um, don't know if they're increasing that for 26, but at least historically. So, that averages out to about $15 and change a month. Readington Beach 15, Beller Beach 15. We are 10. So we would
go up to 20. So it' be out of this bucket we'd be then going higher but not the highest. Um but we're from 10 to 20 does not put us far outside um this pure group
and gets us a lot closer to covering operating costs. still a deficit but at least closer. >> Should this fund be a um enterprise fund that pays for itself or or should we sit here and expect that we do transfer from
the general fund to support storm water in in a perfect world? I mean in in general enterprise funds are intended to be self- sustaining but it kind of depends on on the fund. So storm water is a little more difficult
because yes that if we pull out the dead service just the cost of operating and maintaining our storm water drains, our people to do the work, we're more than covered, right? >> Um it's that capital piece because we're
in a coastal lowlying area. So there's just the need for um more project work than you would in maybe a community that has a storm water fund that's more inland. It's more high ground. Um so that's just the nature of the beast
based on where we are. Um that I think it's fair to include debt service at least to some extent as part of the the cost that we want to recover through fee. One of the things also that the
stormwater fund is doing is um is the paving also. So if you were to take the paving out of the stormwater fund, then you would almost be breaking even on the enterprise by putting that debt service.
But we don't have a paving fund. So it's it's kind of wrapped up into the storm water which is not out of the ordinary. So, if we wanted to break even on um storm water alone, you would have to
then start a pavement um some kind of way of paying for the pavement. And there's different ways of doing that, grants and other things. But for right now, it's it's in the pave. It's paving is in storm water. >> I'm I'm not I'm not knocking the storm
water. I'm just trying I know that I understand that we need to increase it that we have not in a very long time. So, I I'm not against that and I understand that the question, the only reason I'm asking the question is for the community that's going to watch this or that's going to see the increase on
their bill so that they understand um if we had increased incrementally over time, we might would have more money that would have funded those road projects that need to be done. And then I think back to years
past in um where you might could say that projects were put off for various reasons that we should have done and had we done them in a more timely manner the extent of repair or work would not have been as great and the cost wouldn't have been as high. Would you agree that would
be a fair assessment? >> That is correct. So, we're we're in a position now where we're being very proactive in doing the repairs, having to be mindful of being able to pay for them and move forward. But, to not increase this fund to me doesn't make
any sense, especially when you look at the other cities and where they're at in what they're charging and we want our roads to be maintained. We want our storm water to be maintained. So, thank you for the clarification. So
do you do you compare retail versus single family homes or I mean how is that how does that calculate? >> So it's based on units. So if they're take a condo unit for instance however
many units are in that is how much we charge per unit >> or by retail >> retail I don't remember exactly how that's calculated in the ordinance. We would have to look at it, but we can also look at changing that a bit as well. >> Aren't we going to talk about that in
our meeting next in the ski fee schedule? >> So, those are numbers will be in the fee schedule. >> They'll be in the So, we'll be able to dive into that in our next meeting. >> The one we really focused on was the to change was the $10 to the $20, >> right? >> But we have the full fee schedule in the
agenda packet. If we want to spend some of that workshop time to look at the full rate schedule, we can do that. And if there's any other rates within storm water we want to look at and potentially change, we can talk about that as well. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Anything else on the storm water?
If not, just kind of wrap up and in and next steps. So um the the final uh budget workshop will be August where we we've gone through everything individually right capital personnel
revenues now operating this isn't this was intended to be just an operating focus. Um the next one is what kind of puts all that together with the full budget book. If you want to know what is the budget book going to look like you can go on our website. You have the 2026
budget book that has 100 something pages that has everything's kind of summarized all the detail prior year, current year, next year, etc. Um kind of goals, objectives, and everything for each of the departments um as well as the
capital details and personal details. So that's what really has puts it all together. So this we we've kind of built our way up to that going through different areas. Um, so my goal for the next uh workshop meeting will be go through that uh um budget book. If
there's anything you want to point out that needs that you feel needs to be changed, uh we can do that. We still have time to make those adjustments and then ultimately present both the budget book and our millage rate for the uh first
public hearing in September. And so I want to just take a few minutes because at this point um I would need to make an initial uh submission um uh to to the state and to the
property appraiser for our proposed millage rate. So since 20 2020 our mill rate has remained unchanged at 2.75 and we've talked about this in in previous um workshops as well this year that we feel comfortable with
maintaining that. So I'm still and that's what we when we went through the revenues budget that was only the assumption we would retain maintain the 2.75 mills plus we're looking to increase the storm water fees. So I I think the comfort level all around has
been to maintain the millage rate at 2.75. So unless there's any discourse you all want to have now and discuss it and potentially move in a different direction um let me know. Otherwise, I'll make that submission
um to the Florida TRIM and to the to the local authorities property appraiser and then that's what will uh appear on the trim trim notices that property owners will get um for all the taxing jurisdictions including Midur Beach for
2.75. And then the first uh the special meeting the uh for the first one will be September 9th. And that's what we'll need to advertise
uh that'll advertise that date up uh September 9th at 5:45 p.m. uh for the tenative mill rate and budget ordinance for fiscal year 27. and just confirming everyone is
available on September 9th. Okay, good. And then the second one um was this turn tenally planned for September 23rd. Were there any conflicts with the 23rd? >> I have a conflict.
>> We have a conflict. Okay. So, we could potentially move that. Did you all want to move that to like the 22nd or um do we want uh any any >> I don't think so >> discussions on that?
>> I believe I leave on the 22nd >> and perhaps the 21st. >> We just have a window from the first meeting to the second meeting. >> Yeah. >> So based on preference I just um >> Yeah. I leave on the 22nd which I had talked to Claire about.
>> Y >> So >> So yeah, that's why I'm kind of bringing that up now. >> Exactly. Well, that's what I was going to also in terms of Yeah. That >> Are you suggesting a special meeting of like 15 minutes? >> It's Yeah, just like if >> it was scheduled on the like we were
talk talking about on the 23rd, 5:45 to the regular meeting at 6. Uh that's I'm just trying to look at my calendar, make sure that I understand. It's scheduled for 15 minutes. It takes about 3 to five minutes time because it's just a reading of the ordinance and it'll be the second reading. You all approve it,
>> right? >> The 20 the 21st Monday is uh depending on the time. If it's only 15, I I could be available up to 4:00 before 4:00. After that, I have a commitment on Monday the 21st.
>> I think it has to be held after 5:00. No earlier than five. Am I correct? >> Correct. Yeah, I think it'd be like 501 or 505. >> So that 21st would not work. >> So how long has to be between the two meetings?
If we do the first on the 9th, how long do we have to wait to do the second one? Can we do it on the 16th? >> Um, let me let me pull up the rules again. I >> I remember and then I forget it because I do it once a year. But let me confirm on the on the rules of what our window
is and then >> we'll lay out those uh options. But at least for for trim submission purposes, we're good with September 9th for the first public hearing at 5:45 p.m. Okay. And then I'll um
um I'll work right now to to review the rules and make sure that um the appropriate amount of time has elapsed from the advertisement to the next meeting and we'll present those options and maybe if I can talk about in the workshop um I can cover it then if not
we can um communicate that out and and try to nail down that second date. And then also I'll just provide the updated um workshop deliverable. I can email that to the group just with the
corrected uh 24 25 actual figures >> as an option. Uh I I'm available the 22nd in the morning. I leave the afternoon. >> Can't be. >> So I mean know so it >> has can't be before five.
>> Has to be okay. Before five after five. It has to be five or >> five o'clock or after. Okay. >> Right. >> Okay. >> So, I'll pull up those I'll pull up those rules now and and um maybe the workshop I can just give a
quick overview of here's what our options are and we can just cover it then. >> Okay. Perfect. Any other questions, concerns, comments on what we covered for this workshop? Otherwise, we are hitting the home stretch.
There's no more no additional questions. It is 3:34. We're adjourned.