Good afternoon. Welcome to the board of commissioners special meeting. Today is Thursday, February 26, 2026. It is 1 p.m. City clerk, would you call the role, please? >> Mayor Brooks, >> here. >> Vice Mayor Kerr,
>> here. Commissioner Tagalini >> here. >> Commissioner McGan >> here. >> Commissioner Gavay >> here. >> All are present. >> Thank you. Public comment. Public participation is encouraged. If you are addressing the commission, step to the podium and state your name and address
for the record and the organization or group you represent. Please limit your comments to five minutes and do not include any topic on the agenda. Public comment on agenda items will be allowed when they come up. If you would like someone at the city to follow up on a
comment or question made at the meeting, you may fill out a comment card with contact information and give it to the city manager. Comment cards are available at the back table in the commission chambers. Completing a comment card is not mandatory. Do we
have any public comment? >> Hello. Uh, who do I give this to the clerk? >> So, um, I'm Nazari Avanchek. I've been a resident 431 Virginia Avenue, Madura Beach, and been working with, uh, the
city of, um, with Holden and Mercy for the last five years, and we're finally coming to the finish line. So just requesting a reduction fine for the next workshop meeting. >> Thank you.
>> Do we have any additional public comment? >> Good afternoon. Chuck Dylan, 529 Lillian Drive. Excuse me. Since we've opened up the four parking spots at Tom and Kitty Stewart Park, uh I see they're full all
the time and I was told that we are not charging because of the situation and everything. So, could we at least get those four spots designated for residents? Uh, and that's kind of what my thought was by opening them, but I
was going to see about trying to find out how much revenue they did generate being open. But since they are being just used by workers and not creating any uh revenue, could we designate those
four spots for residents only? Thank you. >> Thank you. Do we have any additional public comment? No additional public comment. Next on the agenda is the city manager candidates. A the five recommended city
manager candidates by the consultant. Good afternoon mayor and commissioners. Nice to see you again. Renee Norlock Narlock and Associates out of Tallahassee. It's wonderful to be back in Madiraa Beach. Um before I begin today, I just want to give a shout out to your staff. They have been fantastic
to work with and that's the clerk's office has kept us in line and we greatly appreciate that and the chief and and Megan P and others have just been real helpful throughout the process and they've been great to work with. So, thank you. Um, as you mentioned, we have five candidates that we're putting
forward for the city manager search. Uh, we did outreach far and wide and when I say far and wide, I mean hundreds of people that we reached out to. A lot of times for candidates, the timing is just not right. if it was three months from now or a year from now, we'd be looking at different people. Um, so timing is
always a big deal, but we did uh we reached outside of the state of Florida. There's people out there that maybe from here uh and want to come back and then there's people around here that want to be your city manager and people up the road and a little further out. So, uh, we had about 56 candidates, I believe,
I'm not sure on a final total, but, uh, close to 56 candidates. I think you've had access to their applications. you could see that there was a myriad of folks who applied for this job and kudos to all of them. Uh we went through those and we pulled five candidates forward that we think bring a little bit
something different each one of them to the role and uh we want to talk about them just briefly and recommend them to move forward to our next steps which are interviews. Uh and we hope to have those very soon. I'm going to say within the next three weeks. Megan and I are trying
to work some magic on getting those dates on the calendar. Um what we want to do is we want it to fall after the 10th of um March I believe. I believe there's an election that day if I'm not mistaken. And we want it to fall very soon after that. Um but but not too far
not too much further out because right now with me talking about candidates publicly with their information being published and it puts pressure on them where they are, the organizations they currently work with, we just can't leave them hanging out there too long. So, we've got to compress this as much as we
can and Megan and I will work on that along with Chief to make that happen. Um, so just to recap, we've had about 56 candidates total, five candidates that I put forward. Um, I would like to talk through the interview process with you today too before we close out. Um, I'm
just going to run through the five candidates for those who aren't aware of who they are. I think everybody is. Um, alphabetically by last name and no other ranking order at all. Uh, Stanley Hawthorne, Michael Hell Rick, uh, Debbie Mans, Timothy Owens, and Raymond Palmer.
Um, I have not placed any of these folks anywhere before in my teen years of doing this. Uh, I know of them because of the industry. Some of them that I'm more familiar with than others. Um, but I can tell you my goal was to bring you a mixed bag uh, variation of candidates.
It's diversity in every sense. Everybody coming out a little bit differently, bringing some other strength to the table. This one has this, this one has that. and um make your decision really hard. That's my goal, to make your decision really hard. You don't know which one of these you want. And to tell you the truth, the only way we're going to find that out is to bring them in and
talk to them. So um that's it. I can tell you a little bit about each candidate. Stanley Hawthorne has been in this for a long time. Um very, very smart individual and that's not taking away from anybody else if I don't say that about them. Okay. Um but I will tell you the thing that really sticks out to me is that Stanley spent eight or
nine years working in Fort Lauderdale as the assistant city manager there. And what sticks out about that is I recruited the city manager there that he worked for and that was a that was a tough environment at that time to work in. Um that city manager he worked for
has very high expectations of people and uh he was handpicked by by um Stanley was handpicked by him. So uh he learned a lot about city management in that role. Since then he kind of stepped back and did a little bit of consulting and did a little bit of helping out some smaller towns in the Georgia area. But
Stanley is a Florida person. he wants to come home and uh I think he could certainly bring something to the table. Um Michael Hellfrick is I will say a local candidate. Um I don't know if you're aware of this but he does have a property here in Madiraa Beach uh and uh he actually worked for your neighbor
Treasure Island for many years. He had a long run in Treasure Island uh working as public works director but also in assistant city manager roles and even um interim when the city manager wasn't available he would step in in that role. Um, I I like that Michael has a PE. I
like that he has public works background. I like that he's familiar with the area. I like that he has property in Madiraa Beach. Um, there's several things I like about him and I have not worked with him before. Uh, I just felt like I certainly needed to talk with him, find out what we have. And, uh, again, he's a little bit
different candidate. This would be his first actual city manager role. Um, there's some upsides and downsides to that. upsides are. He's got something to prove, not only to to himself, but to everybody. And I find that people who are taking their first leap into that
role, they really really work extra hard to make sure that they do a great job because this is something they want to do. I think he's been planning this for a while, quite frankly. And um I think he's certainly worth looking at. Uh Debbie Mans is the city manager of Newport Richie. She's been there since
2014. That is a long run anywhere for anybody. And um Debbie kind of came in and didn't have, again, not to disparrage anybody, didn't really have a whole lot going on in Newport Richie back then, but if you haven't been there lately, I encourage you to go and stop in and see what's happened in Newport
Richie since she's been there. Her background is community development. Early in her career, she's community development director. And usually whatever the background is is kind of what the focus is. And that's what Newport Richie wanted. They wanted somebody to come in and make things happen there. And they've done that. She's done an excellent job. I assisted
her about three months ago in hiring an economic development director candidate there. She got her a really good one and um and they're just continuing to just keep things moving forward in Newport Richie. Um as I recall, it wasn't that long ago that her commission gave her a
multi-year contract, probably one of the longest contracts I've seen or heard of in in recent years. So, they want to keep her. Um she's not running away, but I think she's just done a so much there that she wants a new challenge. and um I certainly think you offer different things here than Newport Richie and I
think she's pretty excited about that. Uh Timothy Owens, I do not know him. I have not worked with him before. I will tell you I'm familiar with the areas that he worked in in North Carolina. Don't know if any of you have any exposure in the Carolina beaches. Um but I did a town manager search for town of
Holden Beach about a year ago, maybe eight months. And Holden Beach is in the same area as Writesville Beach and Carolina Beach. Uh these are pretty upscale beach communities much like you. I think Carolina has about 90 FTEEs total similar size. Um and uh he was a
manager in Carolina I believe for about six years and then Writesville even longer like maybe 10 or 12. Um he got to a point where he was at eligibility to retire in North Carolina and he's not done working. Uh so he's trying to figure out how all that works out but um
I told him just to take a look at Madiraa Beach. He did. He liked what he saw. Um, this is someone who's been through a lot of things relative to beaches and beach communities, including reourishments and dredging and working with FEMA and hurricanes. They have,
believe it or not, our hurricanes go up and become their hurricanes sometimes and sometimes they get their very own. Um, but you know, working with FEMA and all that. I mean, there's a lot of and and even his last couple of stints have been interim roles because he can only work for so long right now. Um but those interim roles were planning director and
also uh public works director. So um a broad spectrum of skill sets here. Um I found him to be just a very professional candidate. Uh he he was excited about the opportunity. He had a lot of questions and uh I answered him. Um so I
I think he's certainly worth talking to and and has something that he brings that even the other candidates do not. Raymond Palmer is kind of in the same boat. I don't know him. Never worked with him before. Um, I don't know what about him piqu my interest to begin with, but once I called him and did a
preliminary, I I liked what I heard. Um, he's a very active person. Uh, runs marathons and half marathons and all these things that I will never do in my lifetime. Um, and he's just a very positive person. He's very positive
outlook. He came into the profession, I'll say, sideways. He didn't come up through the traditional steps. Um but he he did work for private sector large private sector companies and had customer serviceoriented roles with those companies. So he's very he
understands who your customer is as a city and he's very sensitive to that and he's all about connecting with people in the community. Um he he believes that's how you fix problems and so um I I talked with him a bit. He's done very well where he's been there a long time.
He's done well in the city that he's in. He served in the capacity as a public works director um interim and and really in this in a community that size, he's kind of served in every capacity as needed. So, he's a little different than our other candidates, but again, a very a very I think a very good candidate,
very good option for you to take a look at. Um, so those were my five that I put forward. There were other good candidates in the group, but at some point you got to kind of just, you know, grab a group and check them out and and put them forward, meet them, see what you like about them. um ask them
questions, hard questions, very hard questions, uh and and find out if we have your next city manager in this mix. And so what we're looking to do is in about the next three weeks, have them come on site and I know I'm running on here and I'll stop just a minute, mayor. Um the um the the process that we're
looking to do is if if you're in agreement with this, we would like you to meet with them one-on-one. Spend the first day, sit down, ask your questions. will tell you what questions not to ask them, but it'll just be the two of you in the room and then they'll just they'll rotate through all of you throughout the day. You get to talk to
all five candidates, have direct conversations with them. They get to know you, you get to know them, and that's important for them because they they know you as a board, but they need to know you as an individuals to know the how they would work with you. Um, so that's a really important piece. I
suggest that that same day after hours 5:30ish that we do I call it an after hours gathering meaning it's going to be after five so people who work can come and it's just a it's just a social event maybe at a off-site community center that overlooks the bay or something you
know just a nice setting you have cold drinks and a snack or something for people but it's just people meandering around and talking to one another joke that you know every candidate will find their their corner of the room but we've got five candidates I'm putting forward So, I don't know how that's going to work out. I guess we all want to stand in the middle, but basically just people
just talking with people, right? And I want it I want to invite your staff, all of the staff, city staff. I want the department directors to be there. I want the media to come if they're so inclined. Um, I want if if you want to attend, that's fine. It's not going to
require anything of you other than to probably observe and see how people are interacting with the candidates. Um, I want, you know, even other people who do business with the city, developers or whomever, to come talk to these folks. I'm sure I've left somebody out, community members, obviously. I want you to put a notice out there to all the
members of the community. Come meet these folks. What it does is um, it gives a candidate a chance to meet, I call them the usual suspects, right? All the people that they're going to be working with, you and everybody else, right? They get to they get to meet everybody which is important to them but I think more importantly it it gives you
a chance to see them interact with the community and it gives the community a chance to lay eyes on candidates chat with them learn something about them and then even give you informal feedback at that event where they just walk by you on the way out the door saying you can't go wrong with any of them or I like this
one you know or whatever they might say right it's an informal feedback session for you too um which I'm sure people will let you know what they think. Um, and then the following morning, we would hold a public meeting again. Well, we'd hold a public meeting. That'd be the first one of this uh of this process
where we're in here and we give my my suggestion is we give candidates a chance to come up and I say make their case. You know, they're not attorneys, but I want them to come up and make their case on why they are the candidate, why they are the one who should be your next city manager. And that includes talking to you about their experience, talking about why they want
to come here, um just sharing with you what what they've seen while they're here, uh what have they observed, uh what do they like best about your community, all kinds of things. And and they get to orchestrate that, right? They come up one at a time, 15, 20
minutes, make their case. You can ask them follow-up questions if you'd like. And then when they're all done, uh we have a debriefing session. That's when it gets fun. That's when we start talking about who we like and why and where are we going with this and then we have to talk terms and we have to talk
negotiations and who's going to be the point person for that and that's where we get into all the weeds on everything we have to do. But so that so I know I covered a lot there. I want to go back to the candidates and and have you discuss your position on these candidates or other candidates that you
want to bring into the fold and if you want to move these five candidates forward um if you're okay with the with the setup that I just described as far as the interview process. Thank you. Mayor you commissioners >> who wants to start >> the process sounds great. I uh fully
endorse the process. Um, I'm sure we may have some questions on um, you know, just just to let everyone know, we've already had a discussion. We spent an hour together on the phone and talked about the candidates, the five you selected and maybe some others. Um,
and um, so a lot of the questions we may have already asked, but um, I was just sitting here thinking, I know you've interviewed all the all the five and and many of the others, but
of the five, did you also interview anyone where they're currently working or where they most recently worked? >> No, not yet. That's a great question. Um, so I'll tell you what we haven't done. um we haven't done references and we haven't done background checks. There's a couple of reasons why. When we
start doing references, even though the candidate gives us their names and their colleagues and their, you know, they've it's a professional courtesy to do it, the grape vine gets lit up and people just start talking, oh, I got a call for a reference on so- and so from such and
such. And we're just not there yet. We want to narrow this pool down a little more before we light up everybody's great minds on contacting people. So, we have not done that yet. That's a really great question. Uh we want to that's why we want to move this process along
pretty quickly so we know who we are going to talk to and we can kind of for those people that we're not going to move forward once we've interviewed them, we're not interested in they can they can rest easy, right? that they're not in jeopardy of losing their current job because they're being considered
here. They can go back to what they're doing and move on from this. And and then it's the the candidate or two that's left that's got, you know, that's when we get into their backgrounds. When we have those whoever moves forward after the interviews, we we start calling their references. We do their background checks and all that stuff.
Now, I have asked these candidates, is there anything in your background that I need to be aware of? because we're going to do background checks on them if they get the nod. >> And any agreement that we come to or any candidate we start talking to about an agreement, the language needs to be in
there. This is contingent on everything clearing. That's not just what I do. The references in the background I do, that's whatever your HR team or your HR staffing will do for an onboard of a new candidate. If you do drug testing and all that stuff, I don't do that. I do
level one background checks, which is just like civil, criminal, driving, driving driving record. I want to see if there's a bunch of DUIs on there or something like that. Um, and education and things like that. So, I do a level one, but that's a great question. >> I may have other questions, but that's it for now. >> Thank you.
>> I I have one. Do these five candidates know they're the top five? >> They do. I um a couple of days ago couple of g days ago notified them. First of all, they've been following this. They've been listening to your meetings. They've been checking public documents. They've been following it.
And I I didn't want them to get a call from someone other than me that their name was being being put forth in this meeting. >> And so I sent them a message and said, "Your name is being put forth in the meeting." And of course, they're all super super excited about that. >> Uh is there any obligation on our part
to interview all five of them or could we say if we had consensus that were there maybe two or three? We just >> You have no obligation to interview any of these candidates. I think that answers that question. I have others, but
>> Hello, Renee. How are you doing today? >> I'm good. Thank you, Commissioner. >> Great talking with you uh on the phone. That was a great conversation. I do like the process that we're going to go through. I think it's very important that we take our time as we go forward
to hire the next city manager. Um, one of the things that uh is very important is uh the the talk in the part of the process the department heads are going to have an opportunity to talk with the the candidates as well. Is that correct? >> Yes, they will be invited and hopefully
be able to come to the meet and greet that we have where they'll be able to interact with the candidate. Now, we don't have anything formally for the department directors when we do the interview process. However, whoever moves forward, they would come back for
another meeting very soon after they were named as a finalist and come on site and bring their family or their significant other or whomever because they're going to be looking for a house. They're going to look looking for schools perhaps, I don't know. Um, but
all of that will be happening fairly quickly soon after that decision. And one of the things that I would insist on happening is them getting to come to city hall and sit down with the room full of department directors and do a Q&A with them in a kind of an introduction. Um, so I do want department directors. I know some of
them may not be able to make it some work shift work or whatever. I don't know. But I do want them to make sure that they are able if possible to come to our meet and greet and introduce themselves as a department director and have conversations with candidates because candidates want to see them.
Oh, definitely. And uh real quick, just to follow up, um >> this list is amazing. The list of candly amazing. I'll be reading through all the candidates that all have great qualifications. >> There's going to be some that in here in
in here that I also or other commissioners or the mayor want to include in the list. And how do you go about that process? >> Um that's that's up to you. you have all the information if you as a so so this is where it's really important I I as
your consultant will tell you what I feel is important for you to know at certain points in this process if I think that you're overlooking someone who's really really strong I'll tell you look you might want to reconsider that okay I know it doesn't look right to you now but you're just looking at paper you might want to reconsider that however um
you are the ones who decide who you interview not me uh if there are others you want to interview you want want to take some out, as Commissioner Tag mentioned, if you want to take some out, if you want to put some in, you have that option. I think what you have right now is a good
well-rounded group that brings a lot of different things to the table. And I think uh once you sit down and talk with the candidates that are recommended, you're going to find there's a lot of depth there. Um but I'm not the I'm not deciding. You are. >> All right. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Good job.
>> Thank you, >> Renee. Um, by talking with you, I felt so comfortable in in in your work and what you are doing for us. It's commendable. It seemed like you knew a lot of these candidates personally and
that spoke volumes. >> Okay. >> Couple quick questions. Um, you've I'm I'm just going to repeat what other commissioners have asked. Why would you recommend five? Let's say I know we at some point we have to
narrow things down to to fewer, >> but why wouldn't you recommend let's say 10 to begin with >> and then narrow it down to five and then narrow down further. >> So that's that's one question I have. And then the other one, what criteria or
system did you use to vet the 56 candidates down to this narrow list? >> Those are those are very good questions. Sometimes whenever I get into a pool of candidates, especially 56 of them, um I will find that there are there are 10
strong candidates, maybe more, maybe 15. And what I'll do is I'll take that first swath of whatever the number of strong candidates are in my opinion based on the requirements of the job and based on what I learned from all of you when I
first talked to you on the front end of this and the chief and others of what what what's going on here, right? What do you need right now here? What are the challenges for you? And then I'll I'll kind of go through those systematically.
And it's possible I could have 10 strong candidates to recommend. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I have five. Sometimes I have two. Sometimes I have way too many and I have to ask you for more time because I can't get through all of them. Um, in this case, I think five was a
good landing spot for the for the folks that I pulled out. I didn't really feel like I had an additional four candidates to give you, to tell you the truth. I think the other candidates that had some of the things that we were looking for um
it could have been any number of reasons. Um for one particular candidate, I know the organization that they worked in and that organization is just not doing well. They're not doing well. They've never they've never done well under their leadership. They may
never do well, but it was more about the organizations that that the people worked for. Um, have they been terminated every single job? You know, maybe they've got the skill sets to do the job, but have they been terminated every single job? Do they get terminated
every time there's an election? You know, and so I have to go behind the scenes and kind of look for things like that to determine um the stability of the candidate, uh, their ability to navigate changes in in boards and elections. I can tell you the candidates
I put forward for the most part there's some of them who had I don't know how many different elected officials they've worked for right over the years because of the just the changeover over time. So I look for different things that would maybe move them to the forefront or not.
Um what I don't want is I I want someone who has a good energy level for you. I want some and and that has nothing to do with age. Okay? We're not talking that. I'm talking energy level. That's different. Um, I want them to have a good energy level. I want them to have a
great knowledge base. I want them to have answers >> and longevity because >> and longevity. >> Some of these folks were pretty close to retirement and we don't want to have somebody here, >> right, >> to serve us for two years, three years, and then retire. Um, what they did tell
me is they offered up some of them their age to me because they do that and they say, you know, I'm 50some and I'm going to work till I'm 65 and I don't want to jump around. This is not and you can tell by looking at their career. This is not a stepping stone for them and I'm not going to come here looking for a
better job. You know, this is it. And and that's not a bad thing, but they have a commitment to come here and stay because that's something I look for too is okay, maybe you were short term somewhere. What were the circumstances? I will always call somebody if they have a short term on their resume. Most
recruiters will not. They go, "Oh, short-term, no." And I'm like, "No, let me find out why." Okay. Did they get fired for doing the right thing? Then maybe they're my candidate, right? Or what was the political climate at the time? What was going on there? You know, was it mutual? You know, maybe the papers say it was a firing, but maybe it
wasn't, right? Maybe the candidate decided to separate. So, there's just lots of things. Did they get a severance package? Did they get fired and get a severance package? That tells me something. They got a severance package. Okay? You don't pay people to go away if they didn't do a good job. It's usually an election cycle. New elect new elected
officials come in and they decide, I didn't hire you as my manager. You're doing a great job, but I want change in this organization and I'm going to start with you. So, so I have to look behind the scenes for all that. To answer your question, I didn't have nine or 10 that
I thought would rise to that level and would clear all the hurdles that I was getting trying to get them to clear. And how did I vet them all? Um I, you know, I've been doing this a really long time, probably 30 years now, maybe. Um I have
an eye for things. I have a instinct for things. Um, sometimes I pick up the phone and I call people and say, "Hey, I know you probably know this person. What can you tell me?" I don't tell them anything else. I'm not divulging anything. They're applied for this. They want this. I don't What do you know? And
people will tell me things. So, while I don't do references or anything like that or talk to people they work with, I do talk to people who know them or who have maybe worked with them in the past somewhere else that I trust will will keep it confidential. So at the end of the day there will be
four or five candidates that public and everybody else will talk to and get to know. Yes. >> Right. >> Yes. >> So so if if we could start with let's say 10 and I think some of the commissioners I know mayor has hasn't spoken yet. So
if we can vet it down to maybe ultimately four and then when that happens obviously some will be coming in from out of town. would we have to incur the expense of them coming here for that interview? >> Yeah, that that's a great question. That was another thing I was going to talk
with you about because um I don't know what your policy is. If there is a policy about reimbursing candidates for travel, I can tell you typically what it is in other communities I've worked in is that for candidates who have to air
travel um or candidates who have to drive a certain amount of distance and stay overnight for the process, right? Instead of living down the street and going home and coming back. Um you the most cities do reimburse. They reimburse
for airfare. I'm going to say reasonable airfare. That's the language I use. That means no first class tickets for candidates. But again, they're going to be your city manager and they're not going to abuse that, right? Um reasonable airfare. Um a hotel night maybe two again depending on what their
travel schedule is. How far are they coming and what the air what's the air travel in and out? Can they get out in time for just staying overnight when I And then for auto around either an Uber or rental car or something like that based on and I don't I'm just going to go off the five candidates that we have. I think we have two that are somewhat
distant from us. Uh one's in PA uh Pennsylvania, one's in North Carolina. Uh the others are within driving distance perhaps. Um, so I'm going to guess an estimated probably $2,500 total for expenses for travel expenses for all
candidates because even for the one down the road or three hours away or whatever it may be, we would offer or or most cities offer mileage reimbursement for them, right? And and they may come and then go back home and come back the next morning or something like that. So, I'm
taking these five based on their locations and estimating and it's just an estimate $2,500 reimbursement. Now, you can choose to reimburse that or not. I just don't know what your existing policy is on that. >> Thank you. You're >> welcome.
>> Um, thank you. Uh, one of the things that you was briefly talked about is the directors and I am certain our directors will make themselves available for whatever day. Okay. um because it's important for them to meet whomever it is that they're going to answer to every
day. Um to clarify for the commission, what we're here for today is to decide and talk about the five candidates that Renee has brought to us to um talk about interviewing and then if there are any other
candidates that you like or maybe you don't like one that she did. I went through every candidate, all 56, and I did because I wanted to be prepared as to why I didn't choose to add to the list. I personally felt like
we hired a professional to go out and vet and that she would vet and bring us the candidates that that met our criteria. And we had a criteria. The criteria was they had to be a city manager, they had to have coastal
experience, and they have to have certain certifications. Um, and I vetted her before we hired her. I made phone calls to make sure that other people who had used her would recommend her and that they were happy or not happy with what she had provided
in services. Um, I can tell you that of the five that she chose, I dug deep into them in addition to the conversation that I had. But the one thing that I noticed when I was going
through all of the other applicants that did not get chosen is many of them have never even been a city manager. And I'm not talking just one or two. There were many. And there were many that have been fired
or have jumped around a lot. And so I felt like the five that we were given was a solid five. I won't add anyone to the list, but if any of you have someone that you found that you thought was um good. I may have overlooked that.
So who would like to start with that? Mayor, if I could if I could just go on I I went through the did the same process uh of of all the ones that that were that were on this list. Uh I I circled city manager >> that was eight and it and of and some of
them are on our f top five and then I went on and circled uh preferably coastal at least Florida and there were two. So I feel like the the top five is a is a pretty good vetting of what we asked right asked for. I would >> So I I won't be adding any more. In
fact, I'd like to low I'd like to limit it. I'd like to cut it back to I would say two, but maybe three. That's based on what I've read, what I've researched, what I found on all all the same I'm sure all the same methods you guys have.
But that's that's where I am. I'm not I'm not prepared nor to add anyone else. Uh, I'm I'm prepared to go with these five, maybe less for the one-on-one interviews. we have to take um Rene's
expertise into account and um I know we did do a lot of vetting um by looking at the choices on paper originally before speaking with Renee um
I had some concerns um after getting digging in deeper and finding out more of what Renee know knew that was not on paper. Um, it made me appreciate the selections
a lot a lot more. Um, and we can go into each one. I don't know if we're going to do that in depth with each one at this time. Um but um I have to defer to Rene's expertise.
>> I I think you don't want to add anyone to the list. >> No, but I I would ask the question that if you know we went back. Is there a deadline? Is today the deadline to do that? Is is if we wanted to you to actually look at one or two more? We
would need to know um just so we will know how many we will have for interviews and how much time we need to schedule for that. Um >> how would that process be? Just an email to you to could you look at this person and and and
>> is there a particular person that you have interest? >> No, I'm just I'm just asking. seems like some may >> uh I I would on a I would think that we need to um kind of draw a line for today just to get to an interview process. Now that said, if we turn up we don't like
any of these candidates after you said sit down these five candidates or how whoever we could send forward today and you don't like them, you want to go out and consider other candidates, we can look back at the pool. I can supplement the pool. I can go out again. I'm in it till the end with you guys. So there
will be opportunity to move other candidates forward if you want. Um if if there's a particular candidate you want to move forward, you could put their name forward and we could have conversation about that if there's an agreement to do that. >> Okay. >> Okay. I don't know if I answered your question, Commissioner.
>> You did. Basically, today's kind of a deadline. >> Today is kind of a deadline for us as far as the process that we have going forward here. Um the clock is the clock is ticking and we stand a chance of losing candidates if we don't move forward and and get
>> I understand that interview date on the calendar. >> I have to call candidates and let them know to clear their schedules if you know >> it's it's a commitment on their part. It's a lot more for them than anybody else, right? They've got to do a full day with you guys and then the the meet and greet at night and then the next day half day. So they have a day and a half
plus any travel time that they have. We've got to give them at least um 10 days, two weeks notice, and we're coming up on that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, are are we at a point where we're going to start uh saying exactly what
we'd like to do? >> So, what I what I would like to do is go through each of us if anyone wants to add or take away. I think that's that's what I was asking. >> Shall I give my justification for anything I do? If I if I if I want to add or subtract
someone, should I give my justification at this point? Can I talk about individual candidates? >> It's you can if you want to. It's not necessary. If you just, you know, say I don't feel this is as strong as of candidate as I would like or whatever, you know, and these are the two that I want to put forward. I I will tell you
that sometimes uh commissions I work with um certain commissioners will be, you know, pretty strong about I only want to talk to these two. Others will say, you know what, if my colleague wants to talk to this candidate, I'm okay with it. So, you know, where we
find the middle of the road there, I don't know, but I I do think it's fine to say the names of the candidates that you that you know you want to talk to at this point. >> I'm I'm ready at this point, unless another commissioner. >> Are you okay for us to Let's start. Let's Yes, please. >> Great. District one, we'll go first.
>> Okay. So, of the five that you've uh put forth to us, I I would absolutely like to interview Michael Hellfrick and Debbie Mans. >> Um based on the information I've received that I've read, uh I would not
necessarily need to speak to Mr. Hawthorne or Mr. Owens. Um and if you felt like we needed to have a third just to have a buffer, uh I would include Mr. Palmer. although he does not have uh Florida experience, he is a he is a city
manager, township manager, Pennsylvania. So he's that got that kind of experience. But I would absolutely like to speak to Mr. Hridge and Ms. Mans. >> Thank you, Commissioner, >> Vice Mayor. >> Uh Michael Halri and Deputy Mans are definitely um my top two after
>> okay >> my conversation. Um, the question is after you actually interview with people, do they have an opportunity to change your mind? Um, but but um I'm not opposed to
um if depending on what the board wants to do uh whittling it down, but I I at least want to get an opportunity to speak speak with everyone. >> Sure. But um that's where it that's based on our conversation and based on
the the resumes. That's the way I'm I'm feeling. >> Thank you, Commissioner McGon. >> I also agree with the uh candidates that my um fellow commissioners have brought up with uh Michael Hellfrick and Debbie
Mans also. I think um but I would also um be inclined to add um I know time is of the essence. Um um and I also think that um those two are are basically the
top two but also I was looking at through and I think I believe I believe personally after what we've gone through that coastal experience is very important. Um, and I'm sure all the commission and the
mayor also agree with that. Um, Lid Ladner um was one of the names that I had looked through. Um, and >> I'm sorry, Commissioner, could you say that name again? >> Lynn Ladner. >> Okay, thank you.
>> And she was also a city manager with 18 years of coastal experience, I believe. um coastal municipalities under the commission manager form of government uh transparent financial management development and administration of annual
budgets and multi-year capital improvements. I I believe and she's also a Fidian here. Um I would like to see her added to the list myself. That would be my top three. >> Okay. commissioner.
>> Um, do you know of Adrien Jones? >> I do not. >> No, >> he seemed to also have good qualifications. >> Um, town of Atlantic Beach, town manager. Um, I didn't anyone I would want to add?
Um, the two that we're talking about adding, one of them owns a consulting firm and the other one resigned the position. And the information I found on the internet was that it was over performance and
budget issues that they were going to be fired and instead of being fired, they resigned. And I would I would disagree with you um Renee on a severance package. Severance packages often are paid because it is less expensive to pay
them off than to go through the legal ramifications which is what we did. >> That's true. >> With in a previous situation. So, um, >> mayor, >> uh, one of, so when I was looking and making my notes in regards to where I was looking for, uh, especially if they
had been a city manager or a town manager, which then I had to go and do research because when you get up north, it's city manager is different. The responsibilities are different. What they actually do for the municipality is very different. here. There's there's a
lot more that a city manager does in Florida than they do up in some of the northern states. And so, um, I mean, there were a number being more than one that the political climate was clearly the reason they were no longer there. But when you see someone who moves
through municipalities and every time they move through the municipality, they can't get along, there's a problem. not saying that it's these two that that they brought up, but I did notice that. Um, so that was my input on those two
candidates, >> but that's just my input. Well, since back to me, I guess as long as we're including >> uh the two that I my two top picks, Hell and Mans, uh if the if there's consensus
from the rest of the board that you wanted to talk to those other two, I wouldn't have any problem with that. >> Okay. >> But I those first two are my wrong picks. >> So those were my two top.
So, >> well, definitely. I believe that was also my top two picks, but I just want a little bit more flexibility or um you know, also our our community is going to also be highly interested in who we pick also, you
know, and I believe that this give them a little bit more opportunity to talk to other ones, too. I mean, >> right. Um, Commissioner, if you're looking for someone with coastal experience, our candidate, Timothy Owens, I know others have dropped him
from the list, but he was a manager in Carolina Beach and and in Ritzville Beach. >> Yes. >> And um he he's he's he knows his stuff. He knows his stuff when it comes to beach communities. I know when I know the fact that he's eligible for
retirement, it sometimes that kind of muddies the waters when somebody says, "I want this to be my last position in my career." Everybody goes, "Oh, well, you're coming to retire on the job." No, that's not what it means. It means I want to be there a while. I want to stay there until that time comes.
>> And uh I I think that's the case with him. I think the retirement thing is kind of throwing everybody a little bit that he's coming here to retire on the job. And he certainly is not. brings a lot of experience um and certainly the beach community as a consideration.
>> Oh, definitely. >> So, we know we have two candidates everybody wants to see at this point. Is that correct? Health and Mans. >> I'm open to see all of them, but I I was just putting out that they're on paper and based on our conversation,
they're my they're my top two. I mean, um >> Sure. >> Michael brings a a PE background. He has property here in MadiRaa Beach, so he's he's vested in the community already, whether he works here or not.
>> Um he's familiar with everything that a city like Mader Beach will be going through. Um he's he's worked in the public sector, so he's he's used to that, working with others
um like that. And then and then Debbie her longevity at um in Newport Richie. Uh that speaks volumes. Um and um my understanding is she's still there. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir.
>> So it's not like she's >> looking for a home. >> Um >> so never spoken with either, of course. So they they they just really stand out. Now, would any of the others you have
you have relationships or you you you know like Stanley Hawthorne, you spoke so highly of the city manager that he he worked for for >> so many years. Um,
and I would I'll ask did did you speak with with him with and he he highly recommends >> Stanley? >> Yes. Yes, I've talked with him before. As a matter of fact, I I always try to recruit him >> and he's he's off doing his own
consulting thing now, so we always joke about that. Um, but I always tried to recruit him and uh, yeah, I I knew since I placed him as city manager in Fort Lauderdale and he hired Stanley there, I've kind of
kept up with Stanley's career through that time frame, right? >> And what he was overseeing and what he did and uh, again, if you worked for, and I'm not going to name his name, if you worked for the city manager, >> you worked. Um he he he he and he's he's
got a great reputation. Everybody knows him. And so I think that is just a real reflection on what not only not only um uh Stanley's work ethic and ability to work that long for that manager. Um but
also what he was charged with and how he was expected to be a manager in his own right as a >> that was in that was in a beach environment. >> Uh Fort Lauderdale >> in a beach environment. Exactly. in a very diverse community. Um, a lot of challenges at that time for the city of
Fort Lauderdale, >> uh, communitywide and, um, and so he was he was in the fire. He was in a fire for a long time. >> Much a much larger community, but in so many respects, it's
>> so similar because a resort town at the beach, have to deal with FEMA, have to deal with hurricanes, have to deal with tourism, has to deal with >> um all that. I mean, just so many different facets. Um, >> and he came from Lakeland prior to that,
which is completely different culture. Fort Lauderdale, completely different. >> I' I'd really like to have a conversation with each and for my own opinion, but >> um, at at the present, I would say that um, Debbie Mans and Michael Alfred are
>> okay, >> kind of stand out. >> Okay. >> I just want to interject something here about two of the candidates. And you we we we received an email that uh Mr. Owens retired abruptly. >> Abruptly.
>> Abruptly. >> When I retired, everybody knew about it for a year. >> Yeah. >> Um could I I'd ask that you comment on that and also Mr. Hawthorne was fired after 10 months uh with cause. Can is
has there been further development or can you comment? Both of those are the main reasons that I took them off my list. >> Sure. No, I understand that. Um I I know there's somebody who posted something that he abruptly
um retired. Um but that is that is not how I understood it went down. So um we could ask him about that if that's something that you're interested in pursuing. >> Uh to give >> So it was a local article. >> Yeah. To give more to give more input on that. um he had a good long run where
he's been and um he it was time for him to retire. He knew that he was planning on doing that. Wasn't a surprise. Um but uh >> but should we be concerned that he retired? >> No. No. Because sometimes retirement means you're eligible to to get a
retirement check, right? And in North Carolina, you're limited once you do that. You can't work full-time in other places without it dinging your >> retirement pension. Right. Same lot. >> So that's why he's looking outside the
state. >> And do you was there any further development? Uh I know that Mr. Hawthorne was going to seek uh some kind of appeal on this fired with with cause. Has there been any further development on that? >> Um no, there has not. And I don't um
it's hard to describe some of these small communities. um and how things roll out in them. Uh I don't want to disparrage any community. I don't want to make any comments about a particular community, but uh I I know a couple of the smaller communities in Georgia that he's worked with, they're very tough to
work for and they have a history of um instability and I think he was trying to help. And I I think I mentioned on our phone call, I think he needs to get back to Florida where things are a little different and things um uh uh
commissions can be more stable. I'll put it like that. >> I'm concerned about the appearance. We we we fired a city manager. >> Yes, I know, right? >> Quite recently, >> right? >> And uh that's that's that's a very fair
>> I didn't have to work very hard to find this information. Yes. And so I'm sure our residents will also not have any problem finding. So that's that's I want I just wanted to say that out loud because I know we all received that information. >> Sure, we did. >> Well, and his LinkedIn profile is not up
to date. So I looked up everyone on LinkedIn also because a professional a true professional in a working at would have a LinkedIn profile that is um especially someone who's moving but he didn't even put his last position on his
LinkedIn profile. >> I think put it on his resume. >> Yes. I think it was probably a temporary assignment. Um, but to your point, I am now reminding candidates to update their LinkedIn profiles because people have just gotten lazy about it or something I don't know. And oftentimes it's
misinformation. It's old information. It's not updated. And this is your professional social media profile. >> Well, it's where you go to look to make sure does the information you provided in your application match what you tell the world you are and have done. And
there's quite a bit of that that doesn't >> de facto resume is what it is and it needs to be up to date. It's a good point. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, we have two candidates that everybody wants to see, right? >> And then we've got two suggested added candidates, right? >> Okay. Is that right?
>> If I may, at the end of the day, we owe it to a residents >> to find the best >> person out there. This person number one in my book must be kind. All right? He
or she needs to listen to the residents with all the experience that he or she may have. >> Right? >> So, aside from all the criteria with experience and so forth and so on, if this person, you know, is
not very nice, doesn't doesn't listen to this board, doesn't do the right things, then we're all back in, you know, in trouble. I agree. And I encourage you if whoever you bring forward to interviews, your one-on-one interviews, if you have
questions about anything about them, and I'll give you a list of things that you cannot ask and ways that I'll help you find ways to ask something if it's on the list of things you can't ask. Um, but uh you need to have direct conversations. You need to hear things
directly from them about anything. If it was a short tenure somewhere, you know, and you think you understand it, but you're not sure you understand it, you ask them, "What exactly happened here?" Because in that one-on-one meeting, you'll find out all the details that you can't find anywhere else. And a lot of
times, it is the rest of the story. You know, you do have to go beyond what you see on social media or even what you read. And even how it's printed really, the terminology used, there's a story behind it. So I don't want to jeopardize anyone's opportunity
for any opportunity anywhere. >> It's good to have a couple more candidates added so that we have a better choice of vetting. You know, it's always better to vet more people. >> Yes. Because you never know who's going to pull out for different reasons. You know, there may be some, god forbid, any kind of medical issue or something and
someone can't make it. And you know, there's no doovers here. You got to make it. So So >> we also value your opinion. Yeah, sure. >> That's what you were hired to do here. >> I will help you walk through this. I promise you. >> Amen. Yeah, we appreciate it. >> As a matter of fact, um, as you go into
the interview process, I'll be giving you information ahead of your interview relative to things like salary expectations and, you know, where they want to be in the scope of, you know, a salary based on what, right? Where are they now? Where do they want to be for
all candidates? So, so you're looking at candidates and you're looking at what they want in order to come here, right? I'll also give you a list of terms that are um they they're typical in in public sector work for city managers. They're
the you know, there's kind of a standard list of things that managers get. Uh, and uh, I will give you that list and tell you what I what I've seen and and what I think is um, kind of the usual
range for things like that. For, excuse me, for instance, um, severance package, the state of Florida limited severance packages some years back because California was running a muck with salaries for city managers out there. Uh if you remember the story about Bale,
California, uh it was pretty crazy times. So Florida said, "No, we're not doing that." They have a limit on severance package, which candidates know that. Um but that's that's that's one of the terms. In other words, there will be an item in everybody's wish list of they would like severance included in their
agreement. And the reason for that is they are working for elected officials. Elections happen. People just change their mind about their manager. Sometimes, believe it or not, they just say, "No, uh, we want someone else." And this is a protective measure for candidates as far as having that in
their agreement. And it's very typical. And there's some other things in there, too, that you you have to just set them up for um success, right? And and come to an agreement with them on terms on the front end of things, but I will give you a long list of what those things are. So, you can ask them about them if
you want during your interview or you can ask me because I'm gonna ask them what they want. I've already asked them some things, but I'm gonna have as they come to an interview, I'm going to say, "What's your wish list? Give me everything. You're not going to get everything, but give me everything you want." And then that way we go into these interviews having some knowledge
about what we're looking at in order to get this candidate. And that that's going to make it easier when we do get to our debriefing and start talking about terms and understanding ahead of time what candidates want. But these let's say we narrow it down to one. Even if we narrow it down to one candidate
after the interviews, I'm going to ask you as your second pick a strong enough pick that if we don't come to terms with the first one, you want us to automatically go to the second one and ask them um or or make an offer to them. >> We got a lot of yards to go here. and
and just like your process, you know, the one-on-one interview, >> the after hours mixer, the group presentation, you know, I would like to see the board, the commission and the mayor come, you know, come together so that
way we give the community a little bit more options than just those two. You know, sometimes on paper things are different when you meet someone in person. Yes. >> Judo. >> Yes. >> So, I would say I would be inclined to add You know, of course, um, Michael and
Debbie are >> top candidates, but I'd like to add just a couple more. >> Okay. >> Um, >> that way the the members or the community get a little bit more opportunity. >> Commissioner Taglerini did. He said Raymond Palmer. >> So, there were three names that came off
the list that >> before we add anyone. Vice Mayor Kerr, is there anyone on this list other than those three that you, >> as I mentioned, I'm referring to I'm deferring right >> to Renee. And if these are the five that
just selected, I'd like to interview these five. I don't necessarily want to drop off anyone because we received an email, you know, I'd like to be able to dig in and ask those questions that might might have been on that email, you
know, and get get some get some explanations. >> Sure. I do think we should interview the five that you put forward because that's that was the the um now whether or not we add two more I'm indifferent to that but I definitely think the five that you vetted that would be good for our city
and per our conversation um sometimes they don't look good on paper to your words and when you sit down and have the opportunity to talk and ask the questions um and the community will have the opportunity to ask the questions or we may ask the question and get the answer
that the the resident that sent us the information um felt strongly about and agree with them. But I think I do think that it's on us to make sure that we interview >> and have a well-rounded number whether it's five or seven. >> Okay.
>> I think is >> Sure. >> Yeah, I think that's a great idea. I mean, okay, the top five and then, you know, we're going to, you know, I'd like to add Lynn. >> Okay. Okay. Lyn Ladner >> and >> and >> Adrien >> Adrien Jones. >> Okay.
>> All right. Um there is always a possibility that we'll have a candidate drop out. We may end up at five. >> Okay. >> When all said and done. Uh especially based on us trying to get dates on the calendar. That's going to be a challenge. Um, again, as a board, it's
going to take a commitment from you to do a long day of one-on-one interviews, especially if there's seven. Uh, we'll get them all in. Uh, and that's a time commitment for you, a whole day, and then the next and then the following day, because we have to do it the next
day, is about probably a half day, I'm going to say at least three or four hours, uh, for candidates to come up and make their presentations and, uh, and then do a debriefing. But I do think we have more than enough with these two added. We have more than enough
candidates. I think for any concerns there are they need to be addressed in in the meeting. And to tell you the truth, candidates are watching these meetings, right? If if they feel like, you know, they don't want to do an uphill climb on something or come in and
and share all the details about something that transpired or whatever, that's their option, right? They they can say, you know, I'm not doing that. Um, I'm going to go over here and do this instead. And that's fine. Um, but we may end up with fewer candidates going forward. It's better to have more
than less in my opinion. >> Thank you. >> Sure. >> Do we have any public comment? >> We have no public comment. Renee, is there anything else that you want to share with us before? >> Um, no. I think we covered the travel
cost. That was important. I mentioned the salary um information that I would provide before you go into the interview process of each candidate. You know, where they want to be, where they where they are currently. Uh this is all public information for the most part, but they
usually tell me where they are. And then they tell me where they would like to be to consider this opportunity. Now, my follow-up question to them is always, are you flexible? And if they really want the job, the answer is yes, they are. So, um, that's always good to hear.
Uh, but if they have a hard line for some reason, I mean, I get it. You're putting three kids through college somewhere. You might not be able to, uh, to to take a step back, right? Uh, and that's fine, too, right? But I'll put that forward so you know that. So, you'll kind of know when you're talking
with candidates where they fall on that spectrum. Um, anything else that comes up between now and then because we do check newspaper articles on candidates as we go forward to interviews because there's a lot of time between here and when we go to interviews and things can pop up and we want to know about it and
uh get get an explanation about it and find out what it is and then let you know. So, we'll keep you informed between now and then. Um, if that somehow changes a decision on somebody or whatever, I'll be the first to say you need to pull them uh because this is egregious. uh this is unethical or it's
illegal or they got indicted or arrested, god forbid, of somebody, you know, then we'll make adjustments. But I surely don't f first of all, these people have served in the public sector their entire lives. You know, they're pretty much an open book. Um they have had newspapers write about them and their organizations for the whole time
they've been working for them. So, um we'll keep an eye on that. >> I think that's it, Mayor. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> You're very welcome. Thank you all very much. Um before we adjourn, it's not on our agenda to talk about the public comment, but because we always do, um 431
Virginia Avenue, I am going to just guess that that's going to come to us. I don't want to talk about it because it's a magistrate thing, right? >> Yeah. And there's the process, >> right? So, so it will end back up to us. >> I spoke with the gentleman after he made his comment to make sure he was aware of the process as well.
>> Okay. And then um the other public comment was about the parking at Tom and Kitty Stewart Park, the four spots. Um do you want to discuss it now or do you want to place it on our next agenda? >> We can discuss it now. And that was part of um what Director Weter and myself
did. We drove the beach, identified the last few um access points that were not open. Um we took a look at the entire Kitty Stewart Park and um the other half of it, the other side, the south side of
it. It's it's not ready yet. And we were able to her staff was able to get those four spots open, cleaned it up, made it look nice, and I made the decision to just leave it as free parking until the the um park opens up fully. Whether
they're for residents or not is is up to uh y'all to decide. >> So, I'd be curious to know if um that I I believe I understood the comment to be that workers are parking in those four spots and if that's the case, that
wasn't the intent of opening them. >> Correct. >> And I'm certain that our parking department would be aware as to whether or not they're workers or they're visitors. So, if it if it is a problem with workers parking there and we're not charging, then we should either be
charging or making it for residents only. And and I don't I'm not sure how the commission feels about that. >> If if we were to put the the meters where and that would residents would have a sticker and they could park there or and and if if it's if they don't have
a sticker like a construction worker would not, they would have to pay. Would that's would that alleviate the problem? >> It would. We would have to get the uh the parking meter installed there. I think the easier lift to move this along
would be to make it resident parking only. That way they have their their per their parking pass is is registered in the system. um parking can go by and just ensure that the cars that are there are indeed residents and if not then
they would be ticketed versus installing um a parking meter a temporary one because then once the park opens we'd have to redo it all again. >> Well, I wouldn't I personally wouldn't have an issue with making it residents only, but I don't know how the rest of the board feels about that. I
>> I'm fine with that. I think it's a a great idea. >> I think it's a great idea. Yeah. Also, >> what if we make it available to residents, but nobody really parks there and or maybe two two spaces are occupied and then the other two just remains unused and vacant and
>> who's to say >> they have to be open at some time for somebody to pull into them. >> Yeah. I I mean I think if it So, here's here's a good compromise. I believe >> make it resident only. >> Parking is going to be fully aware of whether or not they're used. Yep. If we come back to our next meeting and there
are no residents parking there, then we can talk about whether or not you start charging. I believe that they'll get used. They they did before when prehelain the parking spots for residents. >> Yeah. And since they were open every time I drive by, they're they're always full. Whether they're construction
workers, employees for caddies, I'm not sure, but the spots are always full. >> Okay. So, we agree. >> We agree. >> We agree. I'll make sure that happens. >> Thank you. >> Anything further? >> And it is 208
and we are adjourned. >> Thank you.