Everybody ready to get this underway? All right, we'll call the meeting to order for the planning commission for November the 3. Please call the role. >> Chairman Woff, >> I am present.
Commissioner Cloud >> here. >> Commissioner Nobo >> here. >> Commissioner Connelly >> here. >> Commissioner Maher >> here. >> Commissioner Laroo. >> Commissioner Dylan is absent.
>> All right. Looks like we got a quorum so we can do our thing. Thank you. Uh now it's time for public comment. If anyone here is uh would like to comment, you're encouraged to do so. If you're addressing the planning commission, please step up to the podium. State your name and your address for the record. Limit your comment to three minutes, please. Please also do not include any
topics that are on the agenda. We will get public comment on those items as those agenda items come up. Public comments um for sorry for any quasi judicial hearings that might be on the agenda. An affected person can become a party to this proceeding and is entitled to be present and present evidence at
the hearing which includes a sworn testimony of witnesses relevant exhibits and other documentary evidence and cross-examine all witnesses by filing notice of intent to be a party with the community development director not less than 5 days prior to the hearing. Having said all that fun stuff, is there anybody here wants to make any public
comment? Judging by the nobody here really from the public much, I'll say no. Okay. So, uh, I need a motion to approve the minutes from the July 2025 that were emailed out to us earlier. >> So, moved. >> Okay. Got a motion in a second. Someone
>> I'll second it. >> Okay. Got a motion in a second to approve the 2025 minutes. Please call the role. >> I'm sorry I didn't catch the f who called for the first motion. >> I did. Mr. >> Mar. >> That was John Mar.
>> John and then Conway was a second. >> All right. So, that was a two one. Dylan's not here. Uh, Commissioner Noble, >> yes. >> Commissioner Laroo, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Cloud, >> yes. >> Chairman Woff, >> yes. >> The motion passes. >> All right, we're moving on to new business. Uh, the first item on the agenda is resolution 2025-09, adopting an updated Madiraa Beach master
plan. Okay, so before I turn this over to um Andrew and team, I did just want to make a formal announcement. I really think this is one of the first meetings we've had since uh Jenny's departure. Um so she had stepped down um she during the storm had had her second child and
decided that you know she wanted to be participate with that um participate with that was just worded weird but you know what I'm saying sorry it's a long day. So she is available like 10 hours a week. So we are kind of using her part-time to kind of keep certain initiatives that she was a part of going
and um the master plan was one of I think her you know career-wise for her one of a great accomplishment for the city here. So we have been utilizing her but um with her departure I was promoted into the position as community development director um from community development engineer. So just wanted to
make that formal announcement. When I was talking to Chuck he didn't seem that he was aware of it. So I thought well he may not be the only one. So, um, and any feedback from you guys would be greatly appreciated as I step into this process. Um, I take positive and negative feedback very well either way. So, I
would appreciate any comments you guys may have. >> Congratulations. >> Yeah, congratulations. >> All right, >> Andrew, >> come on down. >> Do you want me to just get into it? >> Yeah. Um, thank you. >> All right. Uh my name is Hannah
Schaefer. I'm a urban planner at Kinley Horn. I'm the project manager for this project. I'm also joined by Madison Parker who was one of the lead urban planning analysts on the project as well. So we're really excited to present to you the final draft of the master plan. I know we came to you about
halfway through this project to give you all an update, hear your feedback. So we're really excited to share with you what we've done since then and kind of take you through the entire plan. I believe the entire plan draft was included in the agenda packet. So, there's a lot in there. So, we're just
going to go over um some key items tonight. So, if you have some more specific questions, we'd be happy to kind of dive into those after. All right. So, yeah, we'll kind of start off with talking about the project process. We'll get into what we heard
from the community engagement and how that influenced our recommendations in the final plan and how the implementation of the plan will occur and the next steps to finalize this process. So, as a reminder what the master plan
is, it really is a overall guiding document for the city that outlines goals, objectives, and strategies that are 5, 10, 20 years down the road for the city. So these projects and strategies and initiatives can be included in the CIP into um other
department budgets and you can also apply for grant funding and partner with other agencies to uh accomplish these goals as well. So the overall proc process, we got started with this about spring 2024 and that was really our initial data
gathering phase where we had a lot of community engagement, a lot of um data gathering just to find out what the existing conditions are, what are some concerns, challenges and also opportunities within the city. So this was a really large portion of the plans
just to understand what those current challenges and opportunities are. And around that time was when the two hurricanes hit. So that was a relatively good timing in this process as we were still able to incorporate uh maybe new
challenges or new opportunities into the plan as well. So that second phase really occurred after that is when we started to form these goals, recommendations and strategies that will occur within the plan. And so we are now in this final phase where we have our
draft recommendations and we're really finalizing those into the implementation strategy. And I'm going to turn over to Madison and she's going to talk about the community engagement process. >> Good evening everyone. So, as you all
know, community engagement was a massive part of this undertaking, and I really do feel like this was kind of the core of the master planning process. Um, as you know, we had over a dozen different touch points of community engagement during this entire planning process. We
had three workshops. We had two online surveys that were open to to the community. Um, we also had multiple stakeholder uh meetings, targeted stakeholder meetings with FDOT, PSTA, forward panelis, and other agencies um in and around the county. And of course,
we wanted to make sure that we highlighted everyone's voice um you know, even even visitors, people that had been spending time in Madera Beach that may not have lived here throughout, you know, their entire duration, but still had a stake in the community because obviously they kept coming back.
they had an appreciation for this place and they truly did love it and wanted to see it thrive. So, by the numbers um we had 518 survey responses. It's really impressive and I think you should all be very proud of of everyone that participated um in those
surveys because we read every single one of them and not only were they thoughtful responses but they were fullyfledged thoughts. people had a lot to say and they were very very passionate about participating in this entire um engagement event. Um and many
of you were attendees at these workshops that we hosted and over the course of those three community engagement events. Um 147 people packed out these chambers and that was really impressive. Um so again you should be very proud of your community members and yourselves for
participating in that. Um the targeted stakeholder meetings, like I said, covered FDOT, PSTA, for Panelis. Um and of course, we had pop-up events throughout the year. Um those ranged from the Merry Market to the Wednesday morning market, uh the trash pirates,
beach cleanups, um and we were also at the um seafood festival. So, a wide range of events. Uh a lot of different um folks that attended those events. So we made sure that we tried to capture every single person throughout all walks
of life and in all places throughout the community. So again really really impressive engagement for um the city of Madera Beach. Um and again since this was a truly communitydriven vision for this master plan, we spent a lot of time talking to
people. Um, and as you can see, um, these were some of the direct quotes that were taken from members of the community. And these were really, um, just what we used to kind of hone in on our focus areas and the recommendations that we were putting into this plan.
Next, please. Um, so, of course, with that, all of those conversations, all of those interactions, they really help shape uh the six focus areas of this master plan. And we're going to go ahead and get into those. and I'm going to turn it back over to Hannah.
>> All right. So, as Madison touched on, you know, we did form those six focus areas from what we were hearing from the community. In every project that we do as urban planners, we don't come in with preconceived notions of what we're going to do. Obviously, there is data that can tell us a certain extent of what
opportunities there might be, but we really do rely on community engagement to help um form our recommendations. So we're able to interpret what the community is telling us and put that into strategies, policy, and projects through the urban planning perspective.
So we formed these six focus areas. And we're going to go through these, kind of give a gist of what we heard, some key themes, and then some key recommendations that are in the plan. Obviously, there's a lot more than what's on screen here. There's about over a hundred recommendations across the six categories. But starting with
transportation, I think the number one thing we heard was concern for safety on city streets, especially those major roadways like Gulf Boulevard and 150th Avenue, but also uh safety in the neighborhoods. How do you slow cars down in those neighborhoods where children might be playing in the streets or
people might be walking um due to lack of sidewalks or whatever it may be? So we have recommendations relating to safety studies partnering with FDOT, Ford Penllis to achieve those safer streets. Uh we also heard about beautifification on on streets. I don't
think I'm going to shock anyone when I say Gulf Boulevard isn't the prettiest corridor. So there are opportunities to beautify the streets to make it more comfortable to walk and bike and get get around. So you don't have to rely on a personal vehicle um to do that. And not
only does it, you know, increase the quality of life for residents, but also for visitors as well and making it more memorable as they spend time here. And I think the other thing we heard a lot about was parking in the city. So, we'll touch on that a little bit later, too.
So, another focus area was new development and redevelopment, which I don't think the city is any stranger to. And I think the main thing we heard was people aren't necessarily afraid of new development. They just want it to look good, high quality development that matches the character of the city in the
right location. So directing that development to those activity centers like um the town center, John's Pass or even along um near 140th Avenue. So really directing it to the appropriate places so that the neighborhoods remain intact and that the scale is appropriate
for those as well. And other ways we can you know help influence this is through the development of a um architectural lookbook. Uh making sure that development is matching the character of the city. And part of this project we did provide
um text updates to the C3 and C4 zoning districts within the city. So, these are primarily zoning districts along the major roadways like Gulf Boulevard and 150th Avenue. And as you all probably know, some of these parcels are smaller in size, which can make it more
challenging for them to redevelop and improve. So, what we've done is um created more flexibility in the code by updating uh the text. So, reducing setbacks, things like that to make it easier for redevelopment and also
development that um the city wants. And next for economic and business development, I think you all know there's a lot of people who come to the city for events, for your commercial services, retail. So you already have a good base that attracts a lot of people.
So finding strategies to help build on that and so that the city can continue having those events. So that's where we get back to kind of the parking um concern. and you know where are the locations where you might need more parking especially for those high um
activity areas for retail um tourism or even those um festivals. So looking at a location for a public parking structure. We also heard a lot about how people really want Madier Beach to stay local um in terms of retail and commercial and
making sure that you have those businesses that can remain here and also encourage new local businesses to open up as well. So, of course, this was um a pretty major um talking point uh both before and after the storms. Um being on a
low-lying barrier island, I mean, this is at the top of everybody's mind. So, we had a lot of really really good productive conversations around sustainability and resiliency. Um and I think it's more important than ever to um really have these conversations. So, it was great to have them with the
community. Um and we spent a lot of time on this focus area. And so a a lot of what we heard of course was you know how can we better prepare um for you know the future the next time we have a storm or maybe multiple storms. Um I myself
I'm a child of Hurricane Katrina. I was 14 years old on the Mississippi Gulf Coast went through that. So I know all about uh picking back up and rebuilding and how important sustainability is um especially in a coastal community. So um again the community was really concerned
about making sure that people were aware and also had the proper education of you know what kind of flood protections were out there and what kind of resources would be available to them if they were interested in pursuing u more sustainable more resilient building practices um in their day-to-day lives.
Um so we made sure that we we included that in our recommendations um to highlight educational materials and make sure all of that is disseminated into the greater community. Also there was discussion concerning uh potentially raising seaw walls or elevating
roadways. So looking at how to harden the infrastructure that was not only existing but also um potential future upgrades to infrastructure in Madera Beach. Um, and it goes handinhand with being sustainable. Um, of course, we all love our sea turtles here, and we want
to make sure that we are trying to reduce single-use plastics and other materials that may be harmful to the wildlife that is in and around Madera Beach. Um, and of course, always at the top of mind is storm water management. Um, we heard a lot from the community
about even um, sunny day flooding occurring in some neighborhoods. So that is something that we want to address and something that we wanted to look at and make recommendations for. And the parks, recreation, and public spaces section of the master plan.
Again, a really really um interesting place to have a discussion because Madera Beach, while it is small, does have a lot to offer. Um, you have beach, you have Rock Park, um, you have plenty of beautiful green spaces that exist within neighborhoods and people want to highlight those spaces and make sure
that they're being properly activated, properly used, and that they are accessible to the greater community and that there's connectivity within all of these green spaces. So, some of the comments that we heard um from the community um of course making sure that we highlight the existing green spaces
and recreational areas within the city and also potentially look at increasing those areas. Um having a kid-friendly recreational area near the beach that actually came up a lot. There are families that choose to come to Madera Beach. It feels a little bit more small, a little more quaint, a little more
controlled, and it's their happy place for their families. Um, so they would like to see an increase in and more kid-friendly programming in some of those recreational areas. Um, and of course, um, you have beautiful Rock Park right here behind us. Um, so making sure that we we highlight Rock Park um, if
there is an increase in amenities that um, you know, we we take the community to mind um, when talking about those and also making sure that visitors to Madera Beach are aware of having good stewardship of these coastal resources
that Madera Beach is so proud to have. And last but not least, uh, we have beautifification and placemaking. Again, this goes handinhand with making sure that Madera Beach is highlighting its natural resources, its open public spaces, and making sure that um you know
that we're not overlooking things, but we're highlighting um the the beautiful parts of Madiraa Beach. So, making sure that um we maintain that fishing v village feel that people so happily love to talk about. Um this came up a lot. I mean, this was like a day one
conversation that people were um willing to have with us about how Madera Beach started as a fishing village and they don't want to lose that and that's part of the the history of the city. So, making sure that we retain that not only in how we talk about Madera Beach, but also how um you know, development goes
forward, making sure that we don't lose um that that sense of character. Um, also making sure that entrances to the city are are big, they're beautiful. People want to know that they've arrived here. They want to know that they're in Madera Beach. Um, they don't want to know that
they're in, you know, Readington or or, you know, some other some other beach. They want to know that they're here. And of course, people in the community want to be proud of being here. And so having a um a wayfinding plan or a neighborhood signage plan was also discussed with members of the community. And of course,
little things to help beautify the city like having resilient, salt tolerant, and native landscaping also very important to sustainability and resiliency. And making sure that the public does have opportunities to also
participate in beautifification. So potentially creating a mural program um and a program in which uh members of the community could paint utility boxes and paint the storm drains that were in their neighborhoods.
Right. And I'll turn back over to Hannah. So all these recommendations live in the master plan and we've divided them um not only by the focus area type but also by the timing for implementation. Um, some are continuous things that the city
may already be doing but will need to just continue doing um, annually or long term, but then a lot of our recommendations are divided into short, mid, and long term. And of course, those can change um, depending on funding sources or just whatever might be
happening at the city. But what we really tried to do was identify what are some of those quicker win items and what might need to be longer term. It's certainly a priority, but it'll just be a longer term vision. And of course, some of these will just require um
partnerships with FDOT or Ford Penelis or whoever it might be. So, some of the key strategies we identified, I think, is looking for those grant opportunities and outside funding sources to help implement maybe some of these larger CIP budget projects that might be a priority
but are going to be a longer term. So partnering with FDOT, partnering with the county um for Penllis in identifying those grant opportunities and making sure that um the city is going after those and that they're on the radar so there's not missed opportunities as
well. So some of the quick wins and long-term visions we wanted to touch on, I believe last time when we were here, I think we got the question, you know, what's the thing we could go out and do tomorrow? What's something that might be longer term? And it's funny because we put this presentation together, you know, about a
month and a half ago and you can see in the long-term vision, um, we have something that says increase supply of city- owned land to be used as public spaces and that might be something that can be done sooner because you all have purchased a nice piece of property where you have that opportunity. So again, um,
this is an example where something might be able to happen sooner than later. But some of the quick wins we identified are those safety studies where you can partner with FDOT, partner with Ford Penelis to get those done because you for improvements for those type of roadways, you generally do have to have
a separate plan like that to have implementation. It has to be identified somewhere. So there's a lot of instances where we've identified what that first step is in order to achieve that long-term vision. And that is just an example of that. Um, we identified
updating the parking code to provide more flexibility that right now could be a barrier to redevelopment. So to update that to reduce parking or offer bonuses um depending on on that. So that would be another quick term um something that
city staff could do. So low budget. Um another thing I briefly talked about um before was that lookbook. another thing that the city staff would be able to do um lower budget that you could implement pretty quickly. And then we also
identified a parks and wreck master plan and that is really looking at the inventory of your park spaces right now. Are they meeting that level of service for the current city and community members? And that will really start to tell you where maybe some of those gaps are, where those opportunities are, and
get that additional feedback from community members on how to better use those spaces. since that was a major item that came up in the engagement was the park spaces. And lastly, um there are um some land use designation discrepancies right now with the city. I
believe Rock Park right now is um identified as I don't remember what the category is, but um fixing some of those um land use mishaps and making sure that um land you don't want developed on won't be developed on. So, some of those
long-term visions already touched on the um the new city property that that was purchased, but um another opportunity could be a beachfront trail. We heard that come up a lot in the engagement. That's another opportunity, you know, to create recreation space, get people off
of Gulf Boulevard for a safer um you know, more beautiful walking trail. And then we also looked at some other multimodal connections to um Penllis County and to Penllis Trail. And that's something that could be done in partnership with FDOT in Ford Penelis as
well. And then something we heard a lot was um a lot of support for a Sunrunner like bus to come to Madira Beach. So that or a more transfer center that could connect to other routes um within
the greater part of the county. So we heard a lot of feedback on that. And then um lastly, updating land development code to encourage more pedestrian friendly um public spaces in public realm. So encouraging development through bonuses or just requiring the
code that they um should provide those um more walkable features. So, our next steps in this is, you know, we'll hear from you all tonight, get your feedback, and then our next step is good to go to the commissioners next week for their regular meeting and
present where they'll um vote to approve the resolution for the new master plan. And then from there, um I know the city's been talking about doing a strategic plan. So, some of these recommendations in the master plan could feed into the strategic plan. Then
ultimately um it'll be up to the city to kind of identify those funding opportunities within departmental um budgets, but also if there's um grant opportunities that they can pursue. And in one of the appendices, we do have a full grants matrix of applicable grants
that we felt with the recommendations we have that the city could go for with the information that we have at this time um for timing to to help them out. So with that, we'll open it to any questions. I know we ran through a lot, but we're
happy to go back to any slides as well. >> I had a question. >> Yeah. >> Uh I've in my former life, I did a lot of uh project development at Boeing and we spent tons of time. So I really appreciate how difficult it is to take all these workshops and all put it into
one meaningful thing. And we beat ourselves to death on that multiple times, but typically it just went dormant. it just died and we never had a feedback loop um to know whether or not we were actually executing tactically what we
said we would do at the strategic level. The gotcha process from NASA is very cool. You should look that up but if you haven't already. So if you could talk a little bit more about how this gets distilled into an action plan that say
at least annually the commissioners and the city manager would say like a green light. I mean we would we did a lot of green light charts no action red we've started but we're over budget behind schedule something's wrong or green we're on time and we're doing okay give
an idea to the people that made input. Yeah, we doing anything, you know, like the prominade uh on the beach. That's great. You know, uh amphitheater at Rock Park. There's a lot of really good ideas that do need to be kind of distilled into a manageable, budgetable, short-term, continual term.
I think page 68 starts essentially what I would look at as an action plan. >> Y >> um at least for the continual and for the short term stuff. I mean, when you get out 20 years or 10 years, you know, maybe you don't need an action plan immediately for that, but for the
shorter term stuff, how are we going to get the people that we elected on a regular basis to say, "Hey, we scratched that one. We moved it to to the midterm. We've started this one. Any thoughts on how we're going to lean on them?"
Because without that lean, I can tell you, it'll just go on the shelf. >> Yeah. >> I'd hate to say that because it's a ton of work. And I read through almost all of it. It was a lot. It's long. >> It's not. >> But I read through a lot of it. And it's uh I like 90%. But there's a lot of good stuff in there. There's a lot of really good stuff. >> Yeah.
>> I hate to see it get lost. >> And I'll say, >> and like the 2002 plan that got lost, that's what'll happen 100% of the time >> if we don't create a feedback loop somehow. >> And that's not what we want to happen. There's nothing we hate more than seeing plans.
>> I don't know if you had any thoughts on how to lean on it. Yeah, I think there's there's multiple things that can be done. I think the way we did set up this plan I think is very useful for not only city staff but also elected officials to look at okay what are we what are we going to prioritize every year and
knowing that you know the city is in the space where they do want to look at a more strategic plan where they will be going through you know what are the more immediate projects and I think that's where you know community members can hold them accountable by saying hey you all voted to do these things at this
meeting this is also approved in the master plan um you know where are we at on this? So we've set this up in a way that should be helpful for people to see the timing and understand you know what what is achievable. I think other forms that the city could do is having a
tracking dashboard. Um we've done that with other projects where you can see community members can see and the city can also track you know let's say for example it's a priority to add you know x amount of feet of sidewalk in the city. the city can have this dashboard
that says, "Hey, in this year we've added, you know, 2,000 feet of sidewalk or whatever it might be." So, having those metrics match, you know, what some items in master plan are. Um, so that that's an option, too. I was hoping in your submittal for approval that it
would include you really need to do this sort of feedback loop, you know, dashboard, green lights, you know, stoplight chart is some sort of thing because it'll go dead. >> It'll absolutely just go on the shelf and people will thank you for the good
work and then it'll get on their daily job. I've seen it a million times >> at a very large company and it was always disappointing to go to that work. Um, so I was just wanted to encourage your team to put together a relatively
blunt, this is what you'll need to do to be successful. If you don't do it, then it'll just be a nice job, great thanks, clap, goes on a shelf, >> right? People will come and go and they'll forget it's even there. >> I think that's a great point because as
we did see with the some of us that were here for the 2002 plan, as I look around, I think I'm the only one. >> Um, you know, Oh, yeah. You were here. That's right. Because you still lived across the street from me. Um, but there's few of us here and and due to the unfortunately the transient nature of what we've been seeing in city
government and with staff and you know it just people move around and it does get lost. I mean there was a time back in the day we had the same mayor for 30 years. That doesn't happen anymore here because >> well the average age of the average age is 58 here. They're dropping dead like flies and I'm even closer
>> to the end than that's a really important point. I I appreciate you bringing that out because it I would encourage our city staff to implement something so that there is that legacy factor that when and if some of our key staff people or our political uh people
leave, there's something left behind that can get picked up by the next person in that position or the next people in those positions because it does get lost. We saw a lot of it get lost from the 2002 plan. A lot of work went into that. Um fortunately some of it carried through like the activity centers. have finally come to fruition
and things like that. But that's a really great point. I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you. >> And I I know the mayor um has really been pushing for what they mentioned this the strategic planning. So that's when we're going to take every this the master plan and what they provided with the short-term, midterm, and long-term
goals. And we as a community are going to create that strategic plan that says, "Okay, here's what the next year, two years look like." And start building that out to your point such that we become futureproof. We don't want our goals, our goals shouldn't change with staff. It shouldn't change with the
commission. >> We should have our finger on the pulse of the initiatives that we've invested money in designs for and then the project just drops for whatever reason the commission changed. It's that important. So, that is really where we're going to be able to have our
biggest voice now is in priorities tracking. How do we want to do that? Dashboard's a great idea. There's several um communities that have them and I can look up a few and send them to you guys, but I've been looking at like what we're doing strategically and how we do keep our foot on the the pedal to
keep things moving forward because you're absolutely correct. And my goal is that like I said, nothing is dependent on getting done because this staff members here. It should be no matter who comes and sits in this seat, those projects are are continuing to move forward. We've in the last couple
years left, you know, for instance with our permitting system. We were doing it by paper up until the last two and a half years >> with switching to the permitting software. Those are things that we're doing now that give us the ability to track projects better and just holistically doing you know those kind of initiatives
with software and things like that's going to be very helpful. But you're absolutely correct. If we don't take this and harness it through the next step of strategic planning, the fear is it will get lost and we we don't want that to happen. And then we've brought Kimley Horn in on the strategic planning
conversation as well. So they've already been a part of that. Um I can't say enough good things about how they engaged the community. They built a lot of trust with the community. Their personality, their approach, everything was very well thought out and based on
our community. And I genuinely believe they came in with no preconceived notions about how it was going to go or what we should and shouldn't do, but they really listened. And I think it created a very open environment for for our community. So the master plan I think came together really really well
due to their their efforts and the next step is that strategic planning and that's when we should be really focused on what we're going to be doing and like you said the red light, green light, yellow light. Complet. Yeah, exactly. Completely agree.
>> Anyone else comments, suggestions? >> I have a comment. I just think that this got put together very well and congratulations. I know it's a lot of work and I think to this point, you know, this chapter five, we have that
takeoff point and it's concise and it's obvious and something that we can at least start from. Um, and y'all really condensed a lot of information over the last what two years basically. Um, and
it it just looks really useful. Um, it looks great. So, I just that's my comment. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> And I'll add a little bit more to that. Um, thank you for for saying that. We really appreciate that. And also, thank you for mentioning the um the previous master
plan. I read it back, front, front, back, you know, upside down, sideways. I read it and I mean I I truly did look for every single detail and look for every single thing that was actually implemented up till today and I can say
there was a lot of beautiful thoughts and a lot of beautiful drawings. Um but it was it was a little dense. It was a little hard to read and it was not digestible. Um, so coming into this master planning process, we wanted to make sure that every single person in this community could pick it up and read
it and understand it. And truly, again, communitydriven document. We wanted to make it for the community. So, they're going to hold you accountable hopefully. You know, it's their voice, it's their words that really help shape this document. And we made it so they can pick it up and say, "Hey, I remember
talking to someone about this. There it is. chapter uh you know chapter 5 focus area three 3.1 like they should be able to have these conversations with with anyone um you know whether they're on the commission or not or they're going to be in a future commission. So again
we we made this with the goal in mind that it is going to be a useful document that anyone can actually uh pick up and help implement. Um so that that was a that was a great comment because that's really what we were striving to do. I have a quick question. Um, I read
through it too, but not every page. I didn't see Is there anything in there about the sand dunes and sea oats going forward and yes, >> how that's uh all four of the, >> you know, I've had an issue with it. I've been on the commission for a long time and yeah,
>> it doesn't ever seem to get addressed how the importance of it is. >> Yeah. >> And we have a ordinance on the books that says if you had a seaw wall that you don't need the sand dunes in front of your property. And some of
those you're on the beach now and you're looking at the parking garage, >> which to me, if you're having visitors come, they'd rather go see sea oats and they they do protect us with a storm surge. And I know you mentioned everybody loves the turtles and the do
>> the turtles love the sand dunes and the sea oats. >> Yeah. >> So, I'd like to see that changed. and I've been bringing it up for 20 years and nothing ever does happens with that. >> Yeah. Yeah. That is a recommendation that we do touch on. Um we do state that we want to make sure that education
about the importance of dunes um and CO planting is um continual um and that the city prioritize. I know I believe in the past there was an annual CO um planting that was happening. Um there was somebody from the state I believe
because we had the conversation. Um I'd be happy to share it with you. Um but they they did want to prioritize making sure that se plantings were happening. It is tricky with storm seasons. Um newly planted sea oats, they do need a little bit of time to take and establish. Um and that gets a little
tricky with storm seasons. >> They're already starting to grow back a little bit. But you know, >> what I always recommended too was just a fence around them. We never had a fence. And then I saw people having wedding photos on top of the sand dunes. Like you're not even supposed to be on them. and
>> you know, kids playing and you know, they they should be protected. I that's what I think. But that's good. Thank you. >> Yeah, of course. >> Good job. >> Anyone else? >> Couple comments for me as I've read through this and some of the notes I
made. Um, I know we're addressing some issues in the C3C4 right after this hopefully. Um, which will help. But I think one of the things I did see kind of one little piece that seemed a little bit contradictory to me and this is not
a criticism. I think it may be in my own my own limited uh understanding of it. But one section we know more density or uh encouraging mixeduse development. And this is not really anything that you guys would have known. It's more for our
staff to look into as we go forward. Um on a lot of the C3 zoning categories right now, the lots are small. Um they're 80 ft deep in most cases on that commercial development or that commercial zoning. Um and in order to
create the the mixed use, there's not enough density there now. And I know density is a dirty word. a lot of nobody wants to increase density, but I think if we there there needs to be something to encourage that mixeduse development because I can tell you along that Gulf
Boulevard on the east side of Gulf corridor where we are now really because of what's happened from the storm a real opportunity to redevelop a lot of that stuff. Um it would encourage people to do this mixeduse development if there was some density credit for lack of a
better term. if part of the property was used as commercial with a with residential on top. Um because right now uh I mean I give you an example. It's a piece of property I own in full disclosure. I can only put two units on there. So if I put two commercial spaces
on the ground, I got nothing else to work with. So that's not really a great use of that piece of property where it could support more by having retail, cafe, restaurant, business on the ground and then allows a couple units of
density on top where people could live because that's those are different timelines of traffic, right? As far as density goes, the people that are living there are probably not there all day when the people downstairs are there all day kind of thing for the business. Um, so I think that's just something we should look forward to when we're uh
revising the LDRs. Some of those areas probably could benefit from, I hate to say increased density because nobody likes that word, but some mixed use grant of clemency, you know, on allowing, you know, not just a one
residential and one commercial or just two commercial or just two where you can get a little extra because we're trying to make it fit with what our master plan is supposed to look like. Totally agree with everything you guys did. I think it's wonderful. For us, it's hard to
meet that that vision without getting a little bit extra for the people that want to redevelop. And I think we need to do it sooner rather than later because we're right in the throws of the redevelopment process. Um, transient docks mentioned in here. Awesome. Love that idea. I mean, we're we're surrounded by water and we have almost
nowhere for public docking. I would love to see, you know, some spaces identified uh right away as soon as possible where we could start that process. I know it's a long process, so identifying the spaces would be great. Um, short-term rentals are always a hot button. My opinion, I think we should probably
designate some zones where short-term rentals are allowed. Um, and and spot zone some areas where short-term rentals are permitted. And I've brought this up before, the 2002 plan that you have read and internalized, they proposed three
activity centers, one in the middle of the city. We don't have that one yet. And I had brought that up at a meeting I couldn't attend. I asked uh Mayor Brooks to bring it up. I don't know if she did or didn't. She probably did. Um where somewhere in that 140th to 145th section
where if we just took that commercial zone on the east side of Gulf Boulevard and push the commercial zoning back one more lot so that it was commercially zoned along Palm Street uh just on the one side of Palm Street even. that would give you some of those micro markets, some of the small cafes, the micro
businesses, small personal service businesses, barber shops, cafes, uh, you know, art studios, things like that. That could allow that to be more of a pedestrian friendly, get people off of G Boulevard and walking down Palm, that kind of area to get people off of
the boulevard a little bit. And it would also then give opportunity for a little bit of assemblage, so people go from G to Palm with a with a commercial mixeduse development. Um, >> yeah, I love it. Great. >> I love the idea of the way making signs.
I think that lends so much to the personality of a community instead of the big bright green dot reflective green and white signs that look like, you know, partially Christmas all year round. I love those way making little arrows go this way for here. I love it. So, anyway, you guys did a wonderful
job. I really appreciate what you put into it and I think this is something that we should live by. So we did reach out to Ford Penllis about this. So as you know residential densities capped it what it is currently we're not allowed to touch that
>> right >> um one option and they're actually been working so for PEL provides technical support they've been working with Indian rocks beach about um adding a mixeduse bonus to their equivalent of C3 zoning
in their their city. Um, and I've been keeping an eye on that. So, basically that would still keep it at the same density intensity, but instead of doing the proportional where you have to allocate the certain amount of like lot area to one use and the other use, you'd be able
to use the full lot. >> And and there's a couple different ways they can calculate, but it's basically it you wouldn't have to worry about the proportional thing. So it' still be capped at the 15 to 18 units per acre depending on future land use, but it wouldn't the commercial wouldn't count
against you. Exactly. But that would require a comp plan amendment. Um so that takes time because it has to go go through the process and get reviewed by the state and some various other agencies too. >> Up man.
Well, we need to get this resolution done first at the board meeting and >> Perfect. >> Thank you for that. >> All right. Anyone else got any comments? Any public? Anyone? Anyone wanted to come up? Not sure if you had anything
for this. You good? Okay. Just want to make sure I acknowledge that you're here. There's any other public comment. Okay. Any other questions, comments for our awesome planning, visioning team? Thank you so much. Thank you. >> Yeah, you guys did a wonderful job. I love this. Thank you. >> So, we do do need a a motion on the
resolution. >> You need to make a motion to recommend approval. Recommend that the board approve um the resolution. >> I make the motion to approve. >> Okay. So, we have a motion to approve resolution 2025-09
adopting an updated Madura Beach master plan. Do I have a second? >> I'll second it. Thank you, Mr. Noble. Any other discussion on the motion? Please call the role. >> Commissioner Connelly. >> Yes.
>> Commissioner Laroo. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Maher. >> Yes. and chairman Woff. >> Yes. >> Motion passes. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Thank you, ladies. >> You don't need my vote.
>> Wonderful. You are the second motion. Second in favor, right? >> Should still vote technically. >> Vote in favor. >> Yes. >> Uh yes, definitely. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yep.
>> Yeah. We always >> Sometimes people bring forward a motion just to get it voted on and they're going to vote against it. Understood. Yep. Proper Robert's rules of order. Thank you. Okay. Right. And you keep us straight. I got to tell you all the time. So, uh, the second item of new
business uh, is ordinance 2025-9 C3 zoning district setbacks. This will be a public hearing. Um Andrew is going to go through this with you guys. Um but just to be clear, so simultaneously with the master plan, we
also had Kimley Horn look at the C3C4 code and they mentioned code updates. What you see before you matches what their recommendation was, but this is a a private application for this text change amendment. So while it is
it follows what they recommended, it it it pertains to that, it's not directly related to the master plan per se. It's just the timing of it works and and is um the same as what Kimley Horned recommended for C3. It is not the full
changes though. It is specific to um what the applicant is asking for. Um so I'll let Andrew take it from there. And and to clarify why there's a printed copy, um there was some small language changes um attorney Tras wanted us to
do. It doesn't change the attent intent of the ordinance. It more clarifies because there are lots uh less than 60 ft in in width and we currently didn't reference what side setbacks they would have uh if they're like multif family or
temporary lodging or mixed use. So this uh clarifies that and clarifies if you have exactly 80 feet or 120 feet. And then we also um included um we require for any corner lot to have that 10 feet of side step set back along the street
adjacent side, but we wanted to make sure it included this section because right now it's in this like random part of our code that unless if you know where it is, you wouldn't know where it is. Um but in our memo just summarized what um the um was being proposed that
the applicant was reducing the front yard set back from 25 ft to 10 ft. Um uh current currently as as you know along Gulf Boulevard when it was widened a lot of uh of the properties uh lost a significant amount of their street
frontage um which impacted uh setbacks, parking and in some of them are almost right up on where the where the right of way is currently. Um so even in some cases if those were redeveloped they actually the buildings would actually be fur further back than what they
currently are. But the current 25 feet was was kind of excessive and it would be more of like a setback you'd see in more like a suburban area like in Pasco County than than on Gulf Boulevard here where where where we want kind of these smaller like pedestrian oriented
commercial uses. So this would put it more in line with what we would like like to see along Gulf Boulevard. Um and it's consistent um with the Madira Beach comprehensive plan uh the town center special area plan which actually
proposed to reduce the front setback but we unfortunately didn't adopt that from it. Um and then the proposed Madira Beach master plan and I I listed the from from it what what policies objective like like support it
um as you can see. And then with the proposed Madiraa Beach master plan, I referenced the sections that that support it. Um, C staff does uh recommend uh the approval of the because it it
definitely um helps uh support um property owners along um like uh G Boulevard and 150th to be able to bar use their properties and and when they do red it it create kind of these
smaller um smaller de because we because one of the things we did keep is is If you do own more land though, we do require more side setback because we we don't want a a um wall of very
like wide building. So, um we still kept that and if you do something like that's just commercial, we still require an additional 5- foot buffer from residential properties. Um, so we we did keep those limitations in place, but but this will allow for those smaller less
than 120 ft width lots to h have a bit more flexibility when they're doing mixed use and and for all to have the reduced front step back too, which should bring more of those properties either into conform or if they redevelop because right now a lot of them are
right up on G Boulevard. So um have >> does the applicant want to say any anything addition additional >> good evening everyone my name is Dave Wanzik and I am the applicant and the owner of the property I'm a local been
in Penel County all my life love Madiraa Beach and um I am like uh Andrew just said, I went ahead and did the application because I'm actually looking to do exactly what you've been talking about tonight is put a little mixed juice uh building on right on Gulf
Boulevard and um I think it's exactly what needs to go there right now. Uh the the current existing property has been uh destroyed from the hurricanes. So, it's just sitting there and actually the property that's going to be demolished sits right on the setback. So, by going
back with what I proposing to put there, I'm actually going to be making a smaller footprint than what's already existing there. So, I think it's right in line with the uh the plan of the city. And um if you have any questions, I'm here to answer them. >> Good. Good. Good.
Thank you. >> I I did have a question. It looks like we're we have a a split between up to 80 and then 80 to 120, but they both have the same setback. Am I reading that wrong?
>> Oh, that that that is uh uh correct. Um are the the that section was kind of set up a little bit strange. So, it was kind of trying to fit like that language into our current without having to just cross everything
out. And >> that's what I assumed, but yeah, it it just looked a little weird. I just want to make sure that was true. And the second question is for I don't know if we have any commercial lots that are trapezoidal or pieshaped, but is this eight this uh uh up to 80, 120, 240. Is
that the big number, the small number or the average number? Because I think you'd want to be clear if you don't have parallel lines and you got a lot that goes from 125 feet to 110 ft in the back
say right >> which number you use >> which number are you using to tell me whether or not I need a bigger setback. >> So in our our code we we uh have have a definition for lot lot width um where um
we've pre trying to think what we've um most of them are actually pretty rectangular like it's like so it's not has that hasn't been issue but we do have a have a way of calculating like the a sort of average
>> I just like to torture Andrew really but >> I pull out the >> I would just recommend somebody write in some words on what bloody number it is the big one the small one or the average one I just go with the big one and make it easy it's not a calculus Um, >> yeah, there's a here here's how we
define it. I I that's why I wanted to pull up the exact section of the because it's it's worded a very specific way. >> So, a lot width does have a definition. >> Yep. >> Okay. Very nice. >> And that that Yep. That's why I wanted to bring it up because I I didn't want to >> I can't read it with my 63y old
eyeballs. >> The minimum lot >> does it address uh wonky shaped lots? Uh this so the minimum lot width of any lot is the distance measured in the mean direction of the front and rear lot line from the midpoint of one sideline to the midpoint of the opposite sideline.
>> The middle of the >> Who the hell wrote that? >> Come. It's the middle. >> Okay. >> We got there the hard way. I'm I'm satisfied that there's a definition. >> There is a definition >> for that. I'm good. Perfect. Perfect. >> No problem. Yeah. For the most part though, like with the with the
commercial, like the C3 zoning lots, they're they're pretty rectangular. At least it's the R2 zoning that has some of those weird pieshaped lots like that that one. But C3 is usually pretty consistent with >> the sizes five44.
>> Yeah, I can go back to the Okay. Um, any other questions, thoughts? Because this is an action item. Um, so so any so the recommendation it would it would be going to the board as as a
first reading. So just clarify that. >> What? Just out of curiosity, Mr. Noble is asking what's the address of that of your property? Just out of curiosity. >> 15227 called >> 15227. Okay. >> It's I think it used to be a French restaurant. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's been sitting there so long. I
I knew it was in the master plan to change these setback requirements, but I'm just kind of speeding up the process because, you know, the building's been sitting there, you know, full of foot, you know, flood water for the last year plus. >> Yeah. >> Got it. Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah.
>> Awesome. For my comments, I think it's what we need to do. I mean, we, you know, when a lot of those lots again go back to an 80 foot depth because of the widening of Gulf Boulevard, they were 110, 120 ft deep. Now, if you have a 80 foot deep lot with a 25 foot setback on the front
and 10 to 15 feet on the rear, your building envelope's really small. >> Yeah. >> Um, so this just makes perfect sense. It it blends right into the what our plan looks like, creating a better city uh streetscape, more pedestrian friendly, moves the businesses up to the front, parking in the back. You don't want
people backing out on a Gul boulevard and things like that creating those dangerous traffic environments. So, I'm all for it. when I know with the residential we'd let them build on the existing footprint. Is that something we could look at or we don't want to? So, so that would that would be in the
non-conformances section under rebuilding after catastrophic loss, which we can look at as separate ordinance, but um this this one encompass allows for the the build build back some
something uh re reasonable that that um because we we don't want people to build up right on Gulf Boulevard either. We want to make sure that that there is that 10-ft like especially if sidewalks ever expanded and and to not have a canyon of building either. So, so the 10
foot was a re reasonable compromise on that. >> Thanks, Andrew. >> Thank you. >> All right. Anybody got a motion for me? >> I motion to approve. Okay, so we have a motion to approve ordinance 2025-9 C3
zoning district setbacks based on what was presented to us in the printed form. So there were a couple minor changes from what was emailed to you. So it's what is on the printed form, right? Just for clarification. So that's our motion. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> All right, Mr. R. Thank you. I have a
motion and a second. Will we please call the role? >> Commissioner Cloud. >> Yes. Commissioner Laru, >> yes. >> Commissioner Connelly, >> yes. >> Commissioner Maher, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Noble, >> yes. >> Chairman, >> yes. Motion passes unanimously. Thank you everyone for the good work. >> Awesome. >> Um, no old business, no administrative staff presentations.
Moving right along. Any other uh discussion from our planning commission members? Anything you'd like to bring up at this time? following what we just approved, how can we just take this that next step? Right? We we just said we're kind
of doing what we needed to do for this specific application, but seems like we have a little bit of momentum to try and implement something that's part of that master plan. So, um I didn't want to bog that down, >> you know, in that discussion, but
>> um >> so next month I I can bring the proposed changes that Kimley Horn suggested. I I didn't bring it with this meeting because I didn't want to confuse everyone because because at the BOC workshop meeting, I had it with that. And so you had this agenda where you had
just the the ordinance, the C3 ordinance stuff and then just randomly after the master plan, you had more C3 C and C4 stuff too. And it just it it was really confusing and and I I didn't want to confuse you guys or the public. So it
was cleaner to just focus on master plan resolution C3 zoning from based on the applicant's requests. And then uh next month as a discussion item have the K proposed Kimley Horn C3C4 changes because some of those like like would
require a comp plan amendment to to implement. So it'll take more time to discuss and and obviously like we'll have to have like neighborhood workshops and that too. >> I just think we should keep the momentum going because it's already top of mind. We've already done something for it. It
just makes it less of a headache to go back and have everyone rethink about it and wonder where we came from. And I mean, >> we're just talking about how to get stuff implemented and checked off. So, um, that'd be great if we could bring that to the next meeting.
>> Yeah, great point. Love to see that used as a springboard to keep things going. Good stuff. >> You guys will start seeing a lot of a lot of ordinance um, a lot of LDR things to become more cohesive throughout the code. we have a just a lot of contradictory information um information
scattered in places it shouldn't be and not where it needs to be. So that is pro that's the next you know 12 months you guys are going to be on a rolling circle of of seeing us continually trying to get that especially now that we have the master plan behind us >> we'll be able to start kind of moving forward we have that to lean back on so
that that is absolutely our goal is to keep the our foot on the gas pedal there. >> Excellent. Mr. Conley, >> what you were saying about the adding another uh activity center
>> as to three between 140th and 148th >> 145thish. >> Yeah. >> Well, let's somewhere around there. Can we go? >> You can go wherever you want. >> Yeah, sure. >> So, >> I'm just >> I think that gets that might get too big to go 148. So, >> what I'm getting at is like when I first
came to MadiRaa Beach, there was a lot of mom and pop shops. There are none anymore except uh Candy Cone or whatever that place is called. >> Candy Kitchen. Yeah, >> Candy Kitchen. Um that's probably one of
the only ones that is that has lasted all the rest of them now with the flood. Um, we lost the taco place, the place, the tea garden behind it. Um, what I'm getting at is a lot of people
can't a lot of small businesses can't afford to go down and pay the rent at John's Pass. And it's going to be the same thing up here at 150th. So
to have a second place that I mean I see that as a great idea that you brought up having a section that doesn't relate to the tourists. You know like John's pass
is basically all tourism and who knows what the beach comr is going to be. I mean what he's going to draw there. So to have this section what you were talking about I think it would behoove
MadiRaa Beach to to try to get that section in the works. >> So >> along with this master plan because that would bring back the small mom and pop businesses >> that we don't have here. >> I mean tell me where you going to go get
a hero on Gulf Boulevard. Hello. >> Can I have a pizza? A slice of pizza on G Boulevard? >> Yeah. My idea was >> I proposed like two things. One was to go from 140th to 143rd, which is where
the speedway is, right? Palm goes from 140th to 143rd uninterrupted. Right. So, that made a nice little box. And you're only changing those properties on the back side on one side of Palm. Um the
the second half, you know, the the bigger plan would be to jump over the speedway including it and go to 144th or 145th. That would then get up to where the taco place was and >> be perfect. >> Yeah. And and that would add because to
me what you know going back a billion years when I moved here, John's Pass Village was a village and there was a doctor's office in there. There was an eye doctor. There was a grocery store with a real life butcher in the back with a bloody apron cutting up meat. I mean, it was a village and it that
serviced the locals. We don't really have that now. So, I mean, I I've lived here since I was 12 years old and now if I want those personal services, I'm off the island, >> you know, to go find them. Uh, or there's a few in Treasure Island, you know, here and there. But I think it
almost like a I don't know what's the word I'm like a less intense activity center for lack of a better term you know where we've got super intensity in John's past super intensity in Madur Way and then you have one more like a community center for lack of a better descriptor um where it's more of a local
ccentric thing where you have those little cafes where you can go get a little sandwich or you could go get grab a bagel or you know whatever mom and pop type stuff and it seems like that's a pretty natural corridor to do that and it creates It's a little, you know, you could have a little pedestrian friendly
if you only did it from 140th to 143rd. It's a nice little corridor. Uh, and then you bump into the speedway and that's a pretty intense property itself, right? So, it's not like it's it's creating an intense use next to properties that don't have any intensity,
>> right? You have the two outward, you kind of have would end up having two outward focusing anchors on either end of Madiraa Beach with an inward focusing >> piece in the middle. And >> quite frankly, having that as as a break in the center makes it much more
attractive to walk or however you want to go from John's Pass up to where the beach comr is. >> Yeah. Because because when if you're starting down John's Pass and then you're just walking by no man's land for two, it gets really boring. It's there's
no break. >> Yeah. >> Um so >> yeah, people are likely to go from one end to the middle or the middle to an end, but not likely to go from end to end, >> right? But you would go from end you would like more likely go from end to end if you had something in the middle to stop at. Right. Yeah. So
>> food for thought >> adding 10 15 new businesses. >> Yeah. So >> I mean I think that's a great idea. >> Well, thank you. >> So on on a pos positive note, uh so I I did reach out to Ford Penelis. So a lot
of these properties that were being discussed currently have the residential medium future land use and in the countywide rules there are some commercial uses that would be allowed if it was defined in our comp plan. So I I
wanted to show that retail commercial up to three acres if it was in our comp plan and in the zoning would be an allowed use. Currently it is not in our comp
plan as an allowed use. But I was just showing this because the the challenge especially post Hurricane Helen is that the county is very skeptical about any increase in density or intensity including uh commercial in intensity. Uh
it seems like with what's going on in in Rock Beach and that's their land use is retail and services like um ours along Gulf Boulevard that they that the county's open to allowing for certain
like a mixeduse bonus but it wouldn't increase the current maximum density and intensity. But changing from residential medium is a is a lower intensity in density land use to let's say activity center or even
retail uh and services. It's a pretty big jump. While with this this would allow us to keep the current residential medium land use but give some flexibility with the limitations of of how how much land could could be. So you
wouldn't >> So that means three acres of that category >> or up or up >> up to three acres of that total usage of up to three acres within that category. >> I think it I think it would come down to the part parcel is it's usually by
parcel size. So, basically, this would allow for the neighborhood retail that you guys were talking about, but wouldn't allow for someone to buy up a bunch of land to build like a like a like a public well, we already have a Publix, but like a like a larger retail thing that wouldn't So, this this would be more neighborhood oriented. Yeah.
>> Potentially another option. We did this down John's Pass on on the the uh beach side of Gulf Boulevard to allow for commercial use. We make it a special exception use. >> Okay. >> So, it has to go to public hearing. Um, we did one recently for a fruit float um
at their brickandmortar location where it was a special exception use. It got approved. It's um but that's like we we did it on that side because it's really it's close to residential stuff and people are more sensitive to that like some of those uses near residential. So
that would be one option would be is if you did add it as a use in the land use and either use the current zoning or a different zone, you could require a special exception used. So it it goes to public hearing if there's um but I mean
it really come down to how the community would feel about having commercial uses closer to residential uses and what guard rails they would want if they wanted to be allowed by right as a permitted use or as a special exception. I'm not suggesting we get in the weeds on it tonight, but just something to put
on your radar that maybe that's a that's something that in concert uh with our planners, you know, can come up with some creative ideas on how it works, how it keeps in with Penllis County's requirements. Yeah. >> Uh yet creates a little more of a sense of community in the center of the town
>> because I think this would because this wouldn't require a land use change. This would be it'd still be a comp plan, but it but it'd be a a little bit more controlled because the challenge with act the activities they expect like a special area plan and and with the John's pass one the the just
justifi was really the existing development powers didn't match with that land use the the problem along G Boulevard for the most part the retail and services category would lines up with what's been built there. >> Okay. Um, so like you have have to in
post Helen it seems like they're they're a little more skept of some some of that. But this just as an example would be something we we could do without having to do a full land use change. We could still keep the residential medium category on those lots but allow for
some limited commercial uses. >> Okay, good stuff. I learned something today. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Any more? Uh, that sounds like it might be it. Our next meeting is December 1st. Yep.
>> Can't believe it. We're already talking about December. Like our next thing to do. >> Scary. >> Um, that's about it. So, I guess we'll call this meeting adjourned at 711. Thank you everyone. >> Thank you. >> Good talk all of you.