##VIDEO ID:IMzFui8uRHw## e Monday February 3rd 2025 see everyone please call the rooll please call the role certainly uh chairman woff I am here commissioner Cloud here commissioner Dylan here commissioner Noble commissioner Connelly here commissioner Mah here commissioner laru here okay now is our opportunity for public comment but seeing that no one is here I will forego the dissertation that follows uh so we will move right into the approval of minutes I would entertain a motion for the um approval of our last meeting's minutes which was way back before we had to all build an arc in September of 2024 so a motion for approval of those minutes would be great thanks I make a motion to approve the minutes as read I second as presented yep okay so we have a motion to approve the minutes as presented in a second please call the roll commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Maher yes commissioner laru can I can I say yes even though I wasn't here or should I abstain did you read them I no I didn't to be honest so no I guess I abstain commissioner cloud and chairman wov yes thank you I think I was here said so on the paper I was gonna say even if you aren't here you hand read them and agree that you've read them and they look good to you obviously someone wants to make a motion that something was said differently that you wouldn't know that but you would defer to your fellow board members but yeah you absolutely can read it and say yeah looks good to me perfect okay thank you for that clarification all right so the minutes were approved uh we're moving on to a new business which is uh first one is approval of the 2025 Planning Commission schedule you should have seen that in your packet page um we've got our meeting set up for each month here and uh tells us when the site plan application deadline is when the agenda needs to be posted and any agenda packets will be distributed um I'm assuming everybody's probably okay with this at this point do you have any major concerns or anxiety over it okay do we need a motion to approve this agenda or this uh meeting schedule um yes okay anyone come on somebody's got to do it make a motion to approve the the Planning Commission uh regular meetings as set forth for next for this year second all right we're halfway there okay we got it thanks uh so we have a motion and a second to approve the planning Comm command Planning Commission regular meeting schedule for 2025 any discussion on the motion or are we ready for a roll call all right call the roll commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Cloud yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Mah yes commissioner Laro yes and chairman woff yes thank you okay next item on the agenda is ordinance 2025-the look very similar um it's very similar to the ordinance that came before you in September which was 202 24-18 uh we did review internally we did re-review this area um or this ordinance and have a few more changes and those changes are brought to you um in your packet and it's everything that's highlighted in yellow so we can just kind of go through those a lot of them are grammatical changes um but we can just quickly go through those see so and if I don't bring anything up it was just a grammatical change so in section 110- 386 um the last sentence here saying at the PD rezoning phase the development plan is preliminary and is in the first steps of the velopment just showing that it's this is the first step things will become in Greater detail the further they go along that page everything else was grammatical Let's see we rewarded a lot of these titles like section 110 387 we just um rewarded that title we included step backs with the flexibility and setbacks and step backs if you remember in the John's Pass Village Activity Center there are step backs on the upper floors so we wanted to include that as well and then that last section there is saying that PDS in John's Pass Village Activity Center in the traditional Village commercial Corp boardwalk and low intensity mix use character districts cannot exceed those height limitations in the special area plan so even if you go with a PD in those character districts you can't get any higher this is specifically precluding any sort of variance from the height restrictions yes even with the PD yes and we we thought that that was appropriate in those in those districts just because we've had so many neighborhood workshops about specifically to the height that we felt like that's not what the community wanted okay um to really keep those Heights of where they are in the special area plan um this was just [Music] rewarding let's see the end of page three of 11 we added a little bit more to The Narrative of why the project is requesting that flexibility from the ldrs and the zoning districts as well as in the narrative you must include the impact of neighboring properties and use and development pattern okay going on this is all pretty [Music] standard I think uh 110 389 was just wording things to be a little more clear same for here and then the neighborhood informational meeting we included the city clerk and the Community Development Department we should get a mailed notice as well of the neighborhood meeting even though we know where it is but we want to make sure that we get a copy of the um of the mail out and this is just rewarding both of these sentences in section 110 393 a lot of this is just rewarding um just to be a little bit more clear I think that oh and then changes in development plan which is near the end of this ordinance it's section 110- 396 um we added the the intent of the PD rezoning phase that the project is conceptual in nature so therefore interior layouts may change um as well as egress and Ingress like the front doors may change slightly from the concept PL and that you don't have to go through a public hearing for those changes um and then also we didn't have anything in the code saying what is a minor modification looking at the second paragraph right there but we had in the code what isn't a minor modification so we just added that as some examples um changes in curb Cuts sidewalks bike paths um anything that creates an increase and parking requirements or trip generation rates um and then complete alterations of architectural style and that really is it most of it you can see is just rewarding things um but everything that's highlighted that's what's change from the last version that you saw and we did add um there was discussion believe at the September meeting of increasing the sidewalk width so that was also included in there sorry I think I blew P that one that was on page seven let me go to that it was section 110- 393 um four a minimum of a 10t sidewalk shall be provided um on any Street let's see the Board of Commissioners can reduce the minimum sidewalk width if there are engineering or environmental limitations making a 10- foot wide sidewalk not feasible all right and that is all I have all right who's got a question I do setbacks um I had talked about this before and Marcy called me the garbage man because of the garbage things or the garbage um container areas being utilized in the front setback and I understand it's going on without PDS I mean but in a PD we would see it yes that has to be indicated on the plan but Public Works review that but I'm thinking excuse me that's setting a precedent that if we have non PDS and they have their garbage area in the setback it's going Beyond where our setbacks are supposed to be so I mean you I'm not sure how how exactly it can be determined I mean but with this at least we would have a say you know like no you can't have your garbage in the setback where in in um non PDS it can be so um I mean you know I I just I I don't know how it can be both ways there there are tradeoffs with the PD because I mean if you expect like something to be to a higher standard like that then you have to give the developer more benefit to doing that whether it's more height or um if they're doing the alternative temporary lodging use standards more more density and intensity so it it kind of comes down to kind of what what battles you want to because if you're willing to push for more related to let's say location of where the dumpster can be you might have to accept that there might I mean there's already more flexibility with the PDS but that you might have to give something to because it could make the it could make complicate how how things would be set up on the site like pushing for that okay I understand what you're saying in terms of like with this but once again it's it's I I think the setback should be setbacks and you you know not supposed to be able to put dumpsters in that area so with Condominiums going in you have the setbacks in the garbage dumpster area is in the setback and there another example I know we had to review the condo on 134th I believe it was because the setbacks the garbage the dumpster went a quarter corner of it went into the setback and we had to approve it but other than that it wouldn't have come before us so I don't know which way it's going um I I mean you know I just like the setbacks are supposedly the setbacks but exceptions to it and you know it just seems like to me it's just a little too loose once again just my opinion I think the setbacks with with the um with the dumpsters would be an a different section although in PDS you do have to show the location of your dumpsters um as well as like the size and then Public Works reviews that to make sure that it works and we work it works with the site um so it definitely is um required at the in the PDS um but otherwise I think that that would be other sections of the code um eventually we will get you know like the site plan section and that might be a better place to to have that it has to also be at the site plan process showing where the dumpster is and maybe we could include language on that in that section okay and and I guess that's where I'm I'm trying to figure out where we might be able to impose it so if if anything is put in a setback it's got to come before us you know whether it's you know PD or just a condominium that is stained within the initial guidelines well the initial guidelines say that nothing's supposed to be in the setbacks and that's my point you know it's just like okay so either they can be in there or they can't be in there so um I I'm just kind of trying to start the ball rolling for where that could be that they're not there thank you I think we have a difference if it's just the dumpster if it's got an enclosure right is that what we're talking they all have to have enclosures okay yeah so you've got an enclosure which got into the thing before about how setbacks and uh structures a structure at first there for a while was a sidewalk well how can a sidewalk be a structure there's no walls but they were saying that you cannot have a sidewalk beside your house because it's in the setback but it sounds like to do that we'd have to modify another part of the code right that's not within the PD because that would reference back to that part of the code so that's correct um I think it's worthy of review at some point but for this in particular um I don't know if that I don't know if we can really do anything about that with this I would say not in this ordinance but it would be further review and I know we've where it's found elsewhere exactly and we're we're the best place um to put that I'm not sure off the top of my head but um I'm sure you'll find it it is something on our long list of bring it back to us at length I'm sure yeah yeah um okay I have a question about um 110 396 the minor modifications piece I want to the way you described it was what was highlighted was um what is not included but the way it's written is what is included as a minor modification that wouldn't have to be presented so like the one that sticks out to me is and correct me if I'm reading it wrong but the complete alteration of architectural style would be included as a minor modification yes and then minor modifications has to go to the BC oh it does go to the B yes okay I had it backwards okay all right yeah so we currently well you can kind of see what's underlined um currently it just talks about Minor modifications and what isn't a minor modification so then we started talking well what is a minor modification and then what's a just a standard operating adjustment if you want to put in a fence do you have to go to the boc for that that seems kind of ridiculous so we created this section of standard operating adjustments that um like accessory structures if you follow the code of what the zoning was prior to zoning it to PD as well as fences um pools it's all in there but um we really wanted to include that CU we somewhat felt Frozen on what you can do with a PD after it goes through the development plan and is constructed so having those what's a standard operating adjustment doesn't have to go to board um and then a Min minor modification well we see what it it it's not but um what is it so including that too okay yeah just I had it backwards in my brain and yeah to me that would be like a major modification so I was like wait what is anyway I think that came up in when the Schooner was being discussed that um um The Happy commissioner happy didn't like the looks of it so they basically they redesigned it you know so and and that's where they wanted to see it again I believe yeah yeah that sounds about right yeah and I know that there is um you know whenever a comes to Planning Commission as well as boc there's a lot of discussion on the architectural style so we also wanted to make sure we included that that if if it's a complete change of architectural style that Community gets a say in that we also added reference to um some of the uh design design standards and guidelines from the John's Pass Village Activity Center um to make sure that PDS can't try to get around that because we don't want someone trying to propose something that looks very modern and out of place within within John's past Village so we kind of try to put as many guard rails as possible to because there was a lot of concern from certain community members about that so we try to kind of f fix th those so that they shouldn't be concerns anymore yes so if you go the PD route and you're in the John's Pass Village Activity Center you still have to adhere to all the design guidelines and standards that are written in the special area plan all right any more questions anything else we need to be addressing in this ordinance or any motion to approve or not I'll make motion to approve oh go ahead oh we got a motion okay motion to approve okay do you have a second second okay so we have a motion to approve ordinance 202- Z4 plan development uh and a second I think we can go ahead and call the rooll commissioner Cloud commissioner laru yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Maher yes chairman wof yes thank you motion passes thank you everyone uh the next item on our agenda is ordinance 2025 d05 temporary shelters on residential property please enlighten us all right this is pretty straight forward so the Florida statute prohibits municipalities from prohibiting one temporary shelter on Residential Properties after there's a declaration of state of emergency uh like RV's uh so we are amending our code to basically State exactly what the florid statute says we can't do um allow additionally we um are putting in there's a few requirements from the national flood insurance program the nfip so we're including that as well and we just had to amend that one section section 94-103 but it's it's pretty straightforward if you read it I had a comment on or a question maybe maybe it's both um in this ordinance it doesn't talk about the placement of that unit the temporary shelter whatever it is and some of these lots are pretty small so it it occurs to me that it might be wise to state that it needs to be within the property lines and not encumber sidewalks alleys roadways stuff like that just an idea so the state statute requires it to be on their property it has to be within their property lines um we can let's just see see 3 months just what is the city proposing here're we're just basically adopting referencing the state statute because the statute um States what we can and cannot do related to it um because basically we have to allow it and and um and just we just referenced their restrictions and and what needs to be done but we can't be more restrictive than the state on this and we also do have sorry it's been a while since I've read this um section 30 4 124 and can definitely not read that very small let me see if I can make it larger um see oh great where it go thank you Lisa this is the parking of any recreational vehicles trailers um are permitted within 5T of the curb edge of a street except for boat trailers uh recreational vehicles are not permitted to be parked on City street or any non-paved surface of city-owned property between 11: p.m. and 7:00 a.m. so RV is permitted within 5T of the curb edge of a street that appears to address parking not using it as a domicile so it may be wise to still reference back to that that that still applies it's a good idea yeah I agree with that just to close the circle for anybody who's got you know some of these lots are incredibly small and you can see them rolling up with a 40 foot RV with the thing sticking out the road yeah you know would be wise to have an easy way to get back to you can't do that we just add a sentence must must be on private property I think must be on private property and then if we refer back to this the section 34124 that's how we would do it so then if you wanted to approve with that recommendation then we'll make that change okay so we're going to refer back we're going to somehow so we're good with the way it's written with the addition of a reference back to section 34124 of Mader Beach city code right so we just got to would be be best to try and word Smith that now or make a motion with an amendment to reference back to that section of code you could do either you could just make the motion um with the the changes that have been recommended and let staff draft them knowing that they'll capture it because they're fantastic at scribing what you guys asked them to describe or you can sit here and work work on language yourself and I'd rather let them do it be honest think that's a good choice I spent I've just spent the last four days in Orlando with realtor word smithing uh policy and it's I'm done with it right now yeah yeah staff will do a great job just let them know they they've obviously heard the conversation and they always do a good job they do do so just a motion with the um um Amendment as as not okay discussed thank you for claric for clarifying that okay got any more questions about this and here I thought this one was going to go pow just right through right we're doing good we're doing good all right so we would need um to help you out here we would need a motion to approve uh 2025 d05 with an amendment to reference back to um section uh 34-14 of mere Beach Municipal Code yes that's what I said that's my motion okay all right so we have that motion anybody got a second I'll second all right we got a motion and a second to uh approve ordinance 2025-the on your private property uh any other discussion on the motion nicely done everyone uh have the role please commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Maher yes commissioner laroo yes commissioner Cloud yes chairman wock yes thank you thank you everyone and our next item on the agenda is um ordinance 2025-the the capital Improvement element of the comprehensive plan we'd like to hear what you guys have to say this is also pretty straightforward uh every year we update our comprehensive plan with the CIP the capital Improvement program so it's just capturing what was approved in the budget and then placing it in the comprehensive plan and we do this every year um usually we do it sooner but since we had the Hurricanes we didn't have any meetings we're doing it now and that's that's it so for those of you who are newer um we typically this is basically a rubber stamp item that we have to approve just to have included um for the city's purposes to get to include in the comprehensive plan so it's not really for us to go through and say why are they spending 50 Grand on this or 10 grand on this it's that work's been done um so I hate to say it that way but it's kind of hey we okay I it's not anything terrible we just go forward with it and if I'm wrong throw me out I mean you can tell me I'm wrong but I think that's that's pretty much where we're at right right yeah I had a comment on formatting I don't know if that's appropriate but it it's difficult to see because it looks like the Matrix the Excel file is completely restructured from year to year it's hard to see which item slid which items were eliminated or which items were combined I had them spread out all over my bed just to try to figure it out and it it's not easy to figure out what happened from last year where we didn't spend the money and now we're going to paint the firehouse next year to see that move rather than just show up on a different line item in a different Matrix completely different Matrix that's something that we need to do this year I don't think but for the future it would would just be easier to see how things roll from year to year um I guess my other comment is that the 20 million for Capital Improvement for 2025 is going to be hard to pull off given how busy everybody is after Helen I'm sure things will change yes that's the end of my comments so the table was based off of what was approved in the the budget I I do agree it should be clear um for the reasons you stated but it might be good to do a public comment when they're doing the budget updates they organize it because this was basically me taking what they adopted and and putting in a format so we could put it in our comprehensive plan but I wasn't able to really change the only things I was able to clean up some work that kind of explain what the item was is previously for some it the descriptions were kind of vague but outside of that I kind of had the almost more or less cop and paste it outside of clearing up a couple little words here and there but but it would be good to bring that up in like a public Com when they're doing the next budget to organize it in a way so you can you can see those items better yeah I think it's good good comment because it is it is difficult to see what actually did happen before too because sometimes that's changed right some items slid from one year to the next or you know there was a overspend here reallocation there and you don't really get to see that historical situation and not for our purposes cuz we're not here to redo the whole thing but just as a resident I think the residents would like to see where things have gone maybe good stuff okay I've got a question though all the road projects that were set up for this year after going to the um Community Workshop they're talking about or not it was it was before that when they had the um the discussion about potentially raising the city uh raising seaw walls raising streets and raising properties uh I know that had started last year but I had brought up in the meeting that you know district one basically all the roads have been improved uh Crystal Island had a $10 million project so you're not going to raise those roads so the roads that are potentially going to be getting done shouldn't we put a hold on those as opposed to going through with it if they're looking at raising things and that's what I don't know I think we we paid a consultant $90,000 to make his recommendations about raising um everybody's houses and Roads and seaw walls so should we not really look at putting this money into the streets if they're going to be raising them you're aware of the last mayor that proposed that quit right just south of here yeah yeah it's the same thing with Normy and Crystal is all those roads have been redone yeah so they're not scheduled to get redone for another 10 years no 10 it'll be 20 it'll be 20 well but I mean you but know that Duke was going to do the burying of the lines but they wanted a 10- foot easement beyond what your easement is for the city so they wanted straight clear um easement in people's properties so and even with that it was like going to be a and this is going into the beginning of the crystal Island project that it was going to be 10 to 15,000 per household to bury and bury these lines in your yard I mean you like it was going way into your properties yeah I think that discussion would be better suited for boc but it is something you could bring up to them in a workshop possibly agreed okay all good points um we always come up with some interesting things here uh that may or may not be the Forum to flesh them all out but it's stuff that we can bring to the for sure so um back to the matter at hand our comprehensive plan uh Capital Improvement schedule anyone have a motion to one more question yes all the items that are struck those are just removed from the budget right yes so when are those going to come back on because some of them R in that 20 year some of them show up in the new Matrix stuff stried out is the table from last year and we have to cross it out because we're removing it from uh our comprehensive plan and replacing it with the new one so if it's in both it's going to happen is that am I understand that right or so everything that has a strike through is getting removed and then replacing it with everything that's underlined some of those things disappeared some of those things got reallocated to a different year budget yes and it's hard you can't track it you can't you can't track it but if it's in one budget but it's struck in the other one it's still happening is that what that means well anything in the underlying budget that were that would be added is is what the board approved uh back when they did the budget October or September yeah so that that's what's been approved by them the the the thing the the stuff that's crossed out that's more of just us remove because you wouldn't want the old outdated table sing in your conference of plan if you're replacing it so it was just literally removing the old table and and putting in the new one so I I so it's kind of hard to because it gets confusing that you see the old table but that's gonna so in reality that would be gone and then you'd have the new table that has all the items in it okay I just want to make sure understood okay all right good enough any more questions or a motion make a motion and a boy make a motion to approve ordinance 20256 CIP in the comprehensive plan second all right we have a motion and a second to approve the ordinance as proposed can we please call the role commissioner theu yes commissioner Maher yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Cloud yes chairman wof yes thank you that passed all right so our next item is ordinance 2025 d07 adult use restriction right let's see where we're going with this yes Florida statute 787 um about 30 sets a minimum age for employment for adult use establishments at 21 years of age and that was effective January 1st so therefore we need to update our code to reflect what was um which was created at the Florida legislature so that is what we have in ordinance 2025 d07 and see on Section 110- 841 basically has Co copy paste of what that Florida statute is well that seems pretty St straight forward when's the last time we had an adult youth business in madira Beach do we know I do not know we do not have one we have oh there have been oh right now yeah yeah there there was one on the corner of where the 7-Eleven is now you said we have one now it was called the BDO Lounge for those of you whove been here forever well that's what yeah we had the gaming place over next to the hippie oh right is that adult use then well I mean it's it's it's gambling yeah yeah yeah there were a couple on the beach back in the day I've been here 40 something years so it's been a while yeah but there's one on there was there too yeah the boar Lounge I was like 12 13 when I rode by in my bike and would always hope the front door would swing open just for fun um anyway wow that's on camera never mind so um yeah let's strike that from the record um so anyway uh seems pretty straightforward to me and um the intent is there obviously this is in um you know reaction to a lot of the um trafficking ordinances that have been uh put in throughout the state so obviously at at a very minimum we should at least go along with what the state has uh put forward um so that's where we are so need a motion for this please I make a motion to approve ordinance 20257 second all right we have a motion a second to approve ordinance 2025-the call the rooll commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Cloud commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Maher yes commissioner Laro yes and chairman woff yes thank you passed thank you okay so no old business to deal with uh so the Master Plan update you guys have anything for us so uh La last week we had a a workshop for the Master Plan update that was very well attended every every seat uh was packed which was was pretty impressive considering it was our first uh Workshop uh since since the hurricane for it I think we had almost 70 people is like 68 people someone counted so it was it was great great turnout so on our on our website it we have a page for the master plan and I uploaded the presentation that kimley horn did um so wanted to make sure the public has access so they can look through it again um and we also have the these nice comment cards they made that um if any any of you guys fill them out I'm happy to email it over to them so they can include it um in in the master plan uh because they're still collecting these comment cards and they allow you to write down your feedback so I'm sure they'd be happy to hear your feedback eventually once they compile all the feedback from the most recent workshops event eventually we'll be bringing uh kimly horn will be bringing a a a draft of this of the master plan for that that you guys will be able to see a draft version uh um sometime in the spring but uh just wanted to make sure the show remind that the presentation's up there um and and you guys are more than welcome to fill out the comment cards and if you email them to me or or Jenny we can forward it on to kimley Horn so they can they can look at it and include it um any questions or and we also have a recording of the workshop or um I should have a link of that L yes so we have that as well on I thought we had it pulled up yes we don't if you go to our meetings um I think it would be on here on our YouTube [Music] channel you go the live oh there is there we go five words you sorry about the ad but the good deal by I'll need to add that link too I didn't realize it was already up okay yep right there yeah you can see how packed it was it was a great turnout really excited to see what they come back with all right any questions or anything else so now yes I do I as I made the comment there at what point in the master plan is the the projects that have already been approved put into place I mean know CU like none of the people at my table had any idea about what was going on at um level rocks the triangle uh Schooner hotel and those are all plans and projects that have been approved you know the people are just like oblivious to it you know so in terms of the master plan that should be included in our you know presentations yes and they they are we've talked to kimley Horn about all the upcoming projects or all the PDS that have been approved and sent them all of that information so they're very well aware of of those projects um another thing Robin had us do um fairly recently was we do have on on our website um under master plan plan development we do have um the development agreement for and the concept plans for the the PDS and eventually scooner will be there when um when because that one's going to have to come through you guys for a major site plan review of it uh so but we haven't gotten the version of that yet so um we want to make sure that you guys know that this this stuff is public publicly available um so the community does know what was what has been approved um previously thanks and we are putting everything on laser fish as well so so where is that in the website I mean is it the future plans or and let me scroll back it is let's go back if you go to uh Community Development Department okay department and you go to um be under we had it under master plan and plan development it is might need to move it and make it a little neater of an area I've been trying to fix up the website a little bit but basically well that's good that it's it's accessible to them at least for sure so you and once again like I and the city clerk as Jenny said the city clerk is is work uh working on um including ordinances and other things um what is it like the what's the name of the program again mic uh laser fish laser fish yeah so that that'll be through the city clerk and that'll have all our planning documents too including Peds so that that that one will be a great resource we'll have all of our documents uploaded on there so she's working on that as we speak great thank you all right um and then anything on the c1c2 zoning you wanted to explain or talk about so C1 and C2 zoning District if you remember we rezoned everything in John's Pass Village Activity Center to C1 zoning district and then we reserved that C2 zoning District that used to be the U Boardwalk District but now it's C1 zoning district and then within C1 you have the character districts and John's Pass Village so uh Andrew and I this these are the last um sections in our code that we're aware of that have that C1 and C2 zoning District references and so we're just going through the code and updating everything um that has to do with C1 and C2 uh one of them is fairly we have so many tabs open now see if I can find it I think it's that so one of them will be very straightforward just changing the C1 and C2 uh that'll be one ordinance another thing that we will need to address is accessory structures um and accessory structures you and that was printed out sorry I thought that was in the packet and it y it wasn't um so as you can see there's C1 and C2 and also in uh pass Village Activity Center we also had R quite a bit of R3 Zone properties um I left a map on your on the Das so we had C4 C3 R2 R3 uh C1 and C2 which now is all Encompass in that C1 so we just need to go through so that table is is pretty clean and straightforward forward but we also need to address accessory structures and then the alcohol section in the code yeah um so one of the things that we would be doing is continuing the similar alcohol restrictions on the beach side where you'd only be able to do the restaurant use and the majority would have to be from food so that'd be a continue of kind of what the previous R3 zoning restrictions had um based on kind of community feedback and concerns with kind of commercial use is encroaching on res idential areas on the Inland side that's always been commercial that will have it's the same alcohol stuff it has had currently um I guess we might want the low intensity mixed juice we might want to put similar restrictions as we're doing on on the beach side because that's close to the residential stuff um and that that has restrictions to all already that we had in the the activity center so for the most part just kind of making sure we referenc those character districts correctly and kind of put in the restrictions on the beach side that that the current or the previous R3 zoning had but continue that okay good stuff any questions on that yeah I got a question okay um I don't know if I was supposed to read this ahead of time or not but as I'm reading it yeah for sure um one of the major assets of having a water property is the view whether you got a boat or not and so for R1 single family residence on the water it talks about an accessory structure not whether it's an open one as defin on page one or an enclosed one and that's really a big difference for people on the water if you've got a three or foursided closed box 12 feet from the water that's real different than an open one 12 feet from the water and I I can't believe I'm the first want to say that with property on the water but you know an open one next door to me is very different that's very acceptable but a cube 12T from the water that's not so good and we're not distinguishing between what you can do on the water side I mean people's backyard not on the water that's different because you don't have people looking through your backyard so I don't know what the intent was to provide shade but not obstruct view would be your kind of primary objective for water properties there there is a and to code around that somehow a little tricky maybe but to code around those two things the the um we've run into this before here and I've I've run into this on a state level with the involvement that I have in in the realate world um and it's a it sounds terrible to say but nobody has a right to a view there's that's not a property right so we've had it before here where someone has come and said you can't build that in front of me I live across street from the beach and it's going to block my view of the beach and I bought this because it has a view of the beach and now you're you're allowing in in one of the buildings it wasn't didn't even require a variance for the height or anything it was just something that was going to block their view that would fit conformed um and for some reason it came to us and I can't remember why but it wasn't a height issue so we had to you know you have to help you you don't have a right to a view so that's the harder thing to say like I'm buying a piece property on the water the only view you have a right to is the one directly in front of your property so we're we dance we do the dance here on what you know what's right for the person who owns the property and what they can do with that property and what's right for the person that's next to them and impinges their view right so we went around we spent a lot of time on this right figuring out where you know setbacks how far how big how tall how wide how many how many square feet um so that's that's really been fleshed out a lot um already and I see where you're coming from but we' sort of gone down that road before where all of a sudden you can't you know well I W I can't build my house now because my gu's not used to seeing my house stick out to my rear setback so where you know where does that stop kind of thing uh and that's where this all sort of came from we went through this I year two ago year and a half something like that last year yeah about a year ago and and this is what came out of all of that what's happening here now is just the re um the reassigning of the C1 code it's not changing anything it's just reassigning the headlines right yes and making sure that everybody yeah if we put everything under C1 it seems to not really change much of what's allowed for the R3 it's very similar so we'll look at what zones were these properties beforehand how is that going to change where are the differences within you know there's C4 properties there's a lot of R3 properties that now everything's in C1 so it's just trying to collect all of those are there many differences what's on the ground right now just try we're constantly balancing you know we we have people that come here and they it's we're balancing what's right for the property that they're talking about what's right for the properties around them it's really a delicate dance and it's almost impossible to come up with because we have small Lots we have you know narrow Lots we have that you know we're not your typical newly developed area and it's really hard to to meet that it's definitely if it comes up again it's something that we could possibly have our planners address but I don't think right now we've got anything that's really bad and we haven't seen any issues we have had some people come for variances right to do bigger and and a lot of this was predicated uh on providing more shade we talked about that because you know higher skin cancer incidences and things like that so and after the pandemic when everybody had to stay home you know couldn't go anywhere they wanted to be outside in their own yard so a lot of that's been fleshed through I think but maybe there's room for change I don't know but it is a good point but it's a hard Dance It's A Hard dance to Dan absolutely Ace hedges too can go to the Natural height so your neighbor might have plant palms or some sort of hedge can go as as tall as it can so that could also obstruct your view to the water well I mean the old laws were based on view the 30 foot setback right you can't plant Hedges along your back for the view they were all about view yeah and but what it did because it was so hard you couldn't put any shade in your backyard right exactly so it wasn't a good compromise right and what occurs to me is in the definitions we Define the difference between an open and a closed but in its application it just says accessory unit opened or closed and then it so somebody was thinking about view when they defined the difference between an open and a closed one but didn't apply that difference inside for the setb rul yeah I I see what you're saying so perhaps there is some subtle difference in um either the size or the setback for an open versus a closed structure in an attempt to add what we needed to which was shade in the backyard right that's really the primary reason for these things so it's not living space right shade space primarily if you go and in order to do that but not completely wall out you know like you're an alcatra your neighbors I'm not sure that we've we may have gone too far and allowed people to put but giant boxes in their backyard when that's not the intent of what this whole thing was you know people were driving for a variance from the 30 foot setback for shade that's why they were upset I can't put shade in my backyard I can't sit in my backyard that was it it wasn't because I didn't have a place for my lawnmower but if we're not careful we'll obliterate the advantage of having the view laws that were too restrictive you know and over comp say that's that's kind of what I'm thinking that we should continue to consider as variances come in and as permits are done we could have overstepped so so on on page four we referenced the sizes that an enclosed uh accessory structure can be in the R1 zoning district and then on page uh two for lots of water we do require rear setback of 12 feet from uh from the sea wall and then it needs to be uh seven 7 feet minimum 7t Sid setb on on each on each side so um we do have restrictions on enclosed accessory structures on on the rear rear of the lot um for an enclosed accessory structure the maximum size in R1 is 8 feet wide by 10 feet long by 10 feet high so no yeah there there is the differentiation there in the R12 three zones on page four right you can have an enclosed structure up to this size or an open structure up to this size and then the side setbacks really came from uh we pulled that from the what the primary structure the side setbacks for the primary structure on each of those zones I think that's what is I'm reading also three sides I vehemently kind of remember that I was a complete opposed to three sides I said two I would sign off on but three sides is a structure no it it so so I think this is you know not what we signed off on I believe we said you know they wanted three sides and I said absolutely not I would not pass that it also went to boc so it may have changed at that CU I remember them talking about the the sides there and then the percentage uh like the 4% I think it went up from I it was like three or 3.5 and then it went up to four I think commissioner C I think you're I don't think you're reading it right an open accessory structure has three or more open sides oh okay yes my bad not three more not not four not three or less in closed sides okay right because we're not not everything's a square right we have cheeky hotset or octagonal or you know hexagons or whatever as long as it has three open sides then it's considered thank you that's why you're sitting at important no it's all good so I've been I've read things and they didn't make sense to me before either so anyway okay so that's good stuff for uh our reference um anything for discussion we have for our folks nice Folks at the city you want to bring up I do um on definition the last thing it says outdoor kitchens oh okay counter SP space grills sink I know that I voted down for the sink for the simple reason that if you have an outdoor sink the waste we went through all this and I know Chuck and I discussed this with you and Marcy um that we didn't want someone just to throw in a sink and have the water run on top of the ground and into the canal which is going to stink and bring all kinds of animals and mice and rats and what what have you I see that's in here now I remember this discussion and there it was referenced somewhere else in the code that they could not have any kind of open drain uh in an outdoor structure the sink I don't mind the sink being there but it's got to be defined there that it's hooked up to the city sewer and inspected there it is I'm not it's there says it must be connected to an a sewer line with an inline isolation valve um Plumbing lines must have a backflow prevention yep it's there that's that's where we went around with this last time and we had to find the cross reference in the code section 110 it does have to have electrical isolation which branch circuit right and then the plumbing lines have to have back float prevention and proper sewer connections all right got it y so maybe would would it be worth putting like an aster there you know so any it's all in the same section sorry I didn't I don't think I printed out the entire accessory structure section it's 10 sections down from this yes it's in the same section that's one that's 110 482 this is 110 472 so it'll be in the same section of the code says outdoor kitchens may have and then down it tells you what you can and can't do in an outdoor kitchen yeah we we only printed stuff that referenced the C1 and C2 zoning districts sorry I was just trying to show the C1 and C2 where they were but um that that section with outdoor kitchens that is just like what Mike was saying okay it's a that Division I got something for you um the um Town Center activity Zone um there is a provision in the code about town homes about floor area ratio and lot size it doesn't make any sense um there is a minimum lot size requirement and a floor area ratio that will will absolutely not work for any town home type construction um maybe we can look at that we have that on our list of all right cool one are the next things it just doesn't make you know you have FL a ratio of5 or something a town home and not yeah we haven't I don't think the town home section has been updated since 83 so that's definitely on our one of our next after we address all the C1 c2s okay uh town we have Town Homes also we'll be bringing probably be a little bit later because it's a lot more research but the site site plans um and levels of review that hasn't been looked at for a little bit too so there's a few sections in the site plan okay section that we want to update um so you'll see that too but town and food for thought on that same section um there's prohibition against any town home building that is less than three units attached may want to consider because we have a lot of small places out here and in order to fit some in you may have to have two instead of three makes sense yeah one one thing that we've wanted to look at is that like there's a lot of like with the R2 zoning District there's a lot of smaller multif family uses that we don't really either we don't have it set up right to do them like with the town homes or or we don't even we don't even reference fourplex for example even though that if you had like say 12,000 foot lot you could do a four you technically you'd have the density for it but we don't even really properly I'm only talking about the special Activity Center OH special oh down that there too we don't reference it either yeah because well I I I had a specific issue that I can tell you about later but it it we were trying to put a someone was trying to put a site plan in and it got crushed because of the Flor area ratio for Town Homes minimum lot size for town homes and the fact that you can only have a minimum of three in a single building for town homes in the special area a special activities the activity Zone you know what I'm talking about um so may want to massage that and I'm happy to come in and talk to you about how how it went and what what maybe works better yeah be great cool from a development standpoint which would then actually give in some cases more open space okay cool anything else any other discussion all right our next meeting scheduled for Monday March the 3 6: pm right here I don't see any other informational materials that were handed out for our benefit oh do I anything you need to do with this forward panal deal Andrew oh uh that actually we we received that after the agenda packet was put together y uh so any amendments to our code we send to for pelis they review to see if it's in compliance everything was fine um so that's what that paper is okay all right looks like we're done thank you meeting a jour