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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=0iL8Wqt5M10

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on April 16th and we'll start the VidCon meeting. I'm Andy Oldman. I'm cheering for Sarah tonight who's out of town joined by Car Morris, Don Croft, Peter Twain, and Mark Kraton. Also,

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Mandville, our financial director, and Herson from the select board. And so, we'll follow our meeting to order. So, our first up tonight is uh notes from the uh the auditor. And so,

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we're joined by Rebecca Gamsby. I'll ask her to unmute. >> Hello. >> I do I do have a presentation prepared. I'm not sure if you would like me to share the presentation or I can just

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speak. Whatever is your preference. Um if there's anything that's uh you know a visual aid for us, we're we're happy to see that on screen if you can share. >> Okay, that would be great. >> Otherwise, we we have uh we have a hard

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copies of the report. >> Okay, great. Just sending a request to see if I can share my screen now. Okay. >> Is are you still on video? They take video off.

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It's giving me a second. >> My video is turned off. >> Oh, it is. >> Yeah, but I can see the same image that's on the the monitor. There you go. There we go. >> There we go. Can you see my screen now? >> Yes.

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>> Perfect. All right. So again, my name is Rebecca Gamsby. I am a director with CBIS and a shareholder with CBIZ CPAs. I'm just going to take you through a quick overview of our audit process and then some of the audit results. And if

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there's any questions, um, happy to go over them whenever they're they come up. >> Sounds good. Thank you. So our principal objective during our audit is to express an opinion on the town's financial statements. In this case, the town issues the annual

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comprehensive financial report. We perform our audit in accordance with auditing standards generally accepted in the United States of America and standards for financial audits contained in government auditing standards. Our responsibility during the audit process is to ensure that we plan and

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perform our audit to obtain reasonable but not absolute assurance that the financial statements are free of material misstatement and that they're fairly presented in accordance with GAP. It is management's responsibility to ensure the well management is responsible for the preparation and fair

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presentation of those financial statements. Now, as part of the audit process, we do assist with the preparation of the financial statements. However, we are provided with an export from the town's general ledger software. It's imported right into our audit

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software and all of the disclosures, all the supporting documentation is then provided by the town accountant and the treasurer's office to complete the document. Again, that document is then reviewed before it's even issued to make sure that all the comments and feedback

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are incorporated into it. So while we do assist with that process, it is management's responsibility. There are additional responsibilities during the audit process of management such as ensuring that there are effective um internal controls over all significant transactions and that all

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transactions are reported within the financial statements. Management's responsible for identifying and ensuring the town complies with all laws and regulations. for providing us with financial records and any related supporting documentation that we request during our audit process, ensuring that

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there's appropriate values to all assets and liabilities reported and um ensuring that the financial statements are adjusted during the audit process if any material misstatements are noted during the process as applicable. Um I should add there that there were no material

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misstates noted during the year under audit. So those type of adjustments were not needed. Again, our responsibility is to ensure that the financial statements are in accordance with GAP. So again, we obtain reasonable but not absolute assurance that they're free of material

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misstatement. The audit process is not designed to detect immaterial fraud to the financial statements, only material fraud. So we do obtain an understanding of the internal controls um sufficient enough to plan and our audit and determine like the nature the timing

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extent of our testing procedures and how they're going to be performed. Our other responsibility is to ensure that we communicate with management. So um the town accountant with the treasurer, we communicate with the town administrator as necessary, the finance committee and the select board

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especially if there's any matters that come to our attention that need to be reported. If we found any significant deficiencies or material weaknesses, we would be in touch right away regarding those control deficiencies. Again, um I will get to this later on with the results, but again, no significant

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deficiencies or material weaknesses noted during this year's audit. We do have many areas of um audit emphasis. So as part of this process we have to have an understanding of the internal control structure surrounding all these significant accounting cycles.

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So we focus on treasury the cash and investments um capital assets purchasing and payables debt revenue and the related receivables and payroll transactions and we test a sample of these along the course of our audit to ensure that the controls that we are

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told are in place are then functioning in place. We also have to understand any changes in the key technology systems. So the general ledger environment soft rate um we ensure that again like cash and investments that they're maintained in accordance with your investment policies

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and also with MGL and that everything again is presented in accordance with GAAP. Uh during this process, we test your capital assets making sure that everything is properly class um classified that everything's properly reported. We check the four year end

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cutoff ensuring that all payables are reported and expenditures are reported in the year that they're required to be reported in. That relates to payroll as well. We test your significant acrruals. So items such as compensated absences, net pension liability, net oped

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liability. We ensure that all of those liabilities are calculated in accordance with GAP. Um during the process, we do assist the town with implementation of any new accounting standards. So during fiscal year 25, there was a new Gazsby that came into play, Gazby 101. It

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relates to compensated absences. And essentially, the Gazsby came out with a revision of how the liabilities for all current employees, their earned but unused sick and vacation time needs to be reported. that new Gazsby was implemented prospectively during fiscal

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year 25. There was not a substantial enough change that would require restatement to prior year financial statements. So, it was implemented and tested as part of this year's audit process and we put a big focus on those new gazsbies. Um, again, as part of the process, we

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ensure that the town's OPED trust is properly valued and fairly stated and of course, Gazby 74 and then Gazsby 75, which relates to the town's net OPED liability. Hey, can I ask you a question about that? >> Yes. >> I was looking at our OPED report and we assume a four and a half%

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increase in medical costs per year, which is not the least bit realistic. >> It seems I mean I guess the so the question about if that percentage is appropriate, we look at a range of them and compare them to similar communities. We haven't found

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that to be out of line, but I would say as far as the exact percentage that the town is reporting and why would be a little bit more of an actuary question. >> Yeah, >> I can ask Dan. >> Okay, thanks >> Dan. Yeah, Dan would have more details as to exactly why 4% was used for the

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town, but we do compare those assumptions to other communities that have um essentially communities of a similar size to you. Um the another part of our audit is we would look at the status of any prior year recommendations. So in the prior year we did not issue a formal

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management letter as we didn't find anything that was a significant deficiency or material weakness. But there are times where we have discussions with management about things that potentially might need to be looked at. We'll have follow-up conversations with all of those topics. Our audit process is broken into two

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primary segments. So preliminary audit work usually takes place prior to year end, prior to the books being closed. That's when we start our risk assessment process. We start documenting the town's internal controls, having those discussions with management, with staff, testing those internal controls. And all

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of those tests are built around our risk assessment and they do include elements of unpredictability and we do again have sampling that we perform when we do each of these tests. Um again testing laws with um compliance with laws regulations. So looking at the

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budget, looking at procurement um any grant requirements during this process. The past couple years we've spent a lot of time talking about ARPA state and local fiscal recovery funds about the obligation period that passed um December 31st 25 and now the upcoming

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expenditure deadline for ARPAN. We test again a little bit more testing related to OPE and pension. Specifically during our interim um preliminary fieldwork, we take a look at census data usually related to those liabilities. So the census data that the town provides

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to essentially Dan Sherman for the OPED liability helps in determining that liability for the town. So we test that data to make sure that the employees are included, the retirees are included and the specific elements of those that are used um to create that liability. We

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also test the data that is sent over to Essex Regional Retirement System to ensure that it is appropriate and that the information going there will assist in providing a materially stated um estimate for their actuary as part of the net pension liability.

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Once the books are closed, we receive the final general ledger and we begin our year-end audit work which includes verifying all the year-end account balances and reconciliations. We do reach out to outside entities to confirm for cash and investment statements and balances and debt

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confirmations. Um we again implementation of any new gaze would come into play at this point in time. Testing of the new estimate for compensated absences and again any other year-end cutoff procedures. So primarily focused on testing all those year-end um

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payable warrants for payables and payroll to ensure that they were reported in the appropriate period. testing of this capital asset activity. Were the capital assets actually capitalized? How are they being depreciated? Is there any impairment noted? Um disposals, did they take place

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as they were required to? And then our final review of budgetary controls. So the final budget of the town, how was it voted? And um are the incumbrances in place properly? Were there any over expenditures? During our audit process for all of our

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audit clients, we are required to assess two um risks for every audit. So the first one is management override of internal controls. That risk can never be overcome. We have to consider it and we have to design our procedures to respond to this risk. So specifically we

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test adjusting journal entries. We review the accounting estimates for potential bias and we evaluate any unusual transactions that we might come across within the general ledger. The second risk that we're always required to consider again for every community, every audit is improper revenue

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recognition. We are able to overcome this risk for the town because we are able to perform a combination of substantive analytical procedures with the revenues over the town's main revenue sources. So we focus on the real estate taxes and then we

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focus on the water sewer revenue for the major enterprise funds. We test the billings for the taxes and then we test billings for individual um water sewer user charges that go out. Between those two tests, we are able to overcome that

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risk of revenue recognition. We did not find any errors um within those transaction cycles. And then we do perform additional testing related to the IT environment. Um it can be a common risk area for a lot of local governments just taking a look at the general ledger software um how updates

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are performed, what are the controls surrounding that software and the user access levels that go into it. Essentially um another important component would be when employees come on board, how are they provided access to the system, if employees are retiring

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or terminated, how quickly are they removed from the system. So, for the town's fiscal year 25 audit, um we had great audit results as we typically do with the town of Manchester by the Sea. We were able to issue an unmodified audit opinion over all of um

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the opinion units. So, essentially a clean audit opinion for everybody. There was no instances of non-compliance noted that were required to be reported. Um there were no significant deficiencies. Again, no material weaknesses. As part of our audit process, we did

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look at the award that was provided for the fiscal year 24 annual comprehensive financial report from GFO along with their recommendations for improvement for the upcoming um for the fiscical year 25 ACER and the fiscal year 25 ACER

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was also submitted to GFOA for consideration. >> What were some of the items for improvement? that were noted and reviewed. >> That is a good question and I can certainly pull that up. I believe there was only a few um minor adjustments this

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year. Usually it's a little bit of like verbiage adjustments. I don't have those directly in front of me, but I am more than happy to pull them up. Um so I I will come right back to that after the next couple slides if you don't mind.

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>> Okay. So the components of the town's annual comprehensive financial report. So it is broken into the three sections. So your introductory section which primarily includes management's transmitt and then you have your organizational

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chart and your award for the prior year. The largest section of the ACER is the financial section. So it begins with the audit opinion. Those few pages. So pages 13 to 15. Those are the only pages that we as the auditor own. Those are our

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pages. The rest of it is management's document. Um it is followed then on page 16 by management's discussion and analysis. So summarized results of how the town um operated for the year, summarized results at the full acrruel basis, so

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governmentwide, and then at the fund basis, the modified acral statements. So relating to the general fund and the major funds, the town. Um there's a little bit of information in there as well about the significant um budgetary results um capital activity and debt activity.

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The most significant component to the financial statements is when you get to the basic financial statements which part starts on page 27 and is followed by the notes to those financial statements. So again first come your full acral statements or your statement and deposition and you will be followed

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by the governmental fund statements and then the um proprietary statements. So your enterprise funds and then your fiduciary statements which would be the town's OPED trust. The notes make and the notes and those related disclosures that back up all of the financial

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statements make up the majority of the document. It's then followed by the required supplementary information. So information that um must be input into there which is the budget to actual schedule for the general fund and the 10-year schedules of the retirement

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system and the OPED schedules as well. So information related to the net OPED liability and the trust. The final component of that is your other supplementary information which are just combining statements for those non- major governmental funds so you can see

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them in a little bit more detail. The third and final section of the act is the statistical section. So the 10-year trends for um 10ear financial revenue, debt, demographic, economic trends are in the back. So as far as the financial highlights go

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for the town, the town's um general fund, just taking a look at the budget first, the final budget was 42.7 million. It included a use of $1.6 million of free cash and $125,000 in overlay.

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The revenues did come in over budget by about $670,000 and the expenditures incumbrances were under budget by about 450,000. Overall, there was a net budgetary fund decrease um budgetary sorry net fund

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balance decrease on the budgetary basis of about 820,000 primarily due to that budgeted use of free cash. The general fund fund balance at year end was 8.7 million. So again, that statement is further up. That's page 30

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of the document. That 8.7 million does include the general fund of 7 million and the stabilization fund which had 1.7 million in at year end. Of that total amount of 8.7 million, there was 5.2

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million that was available for um any expenditure of the town. It's not reserved at year end so available for future expenditures. As I noted that stabilization fund of the town is included within the general fund. The stabilization fund did have an

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increase of about 110,000 over the prior year. Um other again important disclosures for the town pension disclosures. So the town's a member of Essex Regional Retirement System for the year ended June 3025. there was an actuarily

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determined contribution of 1.7 million. Again, that actuary is hired by the system based on their funding schedule. The U town's share of that system is only 3.46%. And the related share of that net

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pension liability that the system reports is 14.5 million. Um that those numbers that are reported are as of 123124. So the system has a December year end. So about 6 months off from the town, but the overall the net pension liability

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for the town did go down about 734,000 from the prior year. Um further information related to the system can be seen within note 10 to the financial statements. It's followed by note 11 which is the town's OPED disclosures. So related to

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the net OPED liability and some information related again to the OPED trust. So during the fiscal year there was 300,000 um that was preunded by the town into the OPE trust. The trust had a total fund balance of

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5.3 million at year end which is primarily invested in Prit. The unfunded liability so the net OPED liability at year end was 1.5 million which was a decrease of 592,000 from the prior year. That trust fund

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does reflect a discount rate of 7.5%. no change from the prior year. Um again, there's a few 10-year trend schedules that are reported in RSI so that you can see how um the performance of the trust is taking place and then

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also the changes within that net pension liability and then the investment rate of return, I'm sorry, net OPED liability and then the related investment returns for the trust for a 10-year schedule. Um I believe OPED is getting very close to a 10-year schedule. they are either

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eight or nine years in there now at this point. Uh few more financial highlights. So the governmental activities reported 4.2 million of debt there. That is a decrease from the prior year as no long-term debt was issued for

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governmental activities. Um similarly the water sewer fund also had the water and sewer enterprise funds like collectively had 1.5 million of long-term debt. again decreased from the prior year as no new debt was issued.

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The town reported two other major besides the general fund, two other major governmental funds. So the first is the community preservation major fund which has been there typically with the prior years. Um it only it just reported the $565,000 in revenue and then the

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related 692,000 in expenditures. The change for the current year for fiscal year 25 was that there is a new major fund. So the planning conservation commission fund became major in the year. Um this was related to the new

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liability that was presented within this fund. So the town received revenue under an escrow agreement and of that amount there was 689,000 that was not spent as of year end. Therefore was reported as an unearned revenue liability at year

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end. and as it's reserved for future expenditures in accordance with that agreement. So that figure right there qualified it as a major fund for the town and it was reported separately. >> Tell me tell me again what the planning commission conservation commission major

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fund. I'm not sure I'm aware of what that is. >> It's essentially like um an escro account. So, you know, if you go for um a planning permit or something like that and they require a peer review, um the applicant will pay for that. But what they do is they pay the town and then we

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hire the peer reviewer >> um and then use those funds that the applicate gave us, but I set them aside so we can keep track of them separately. That's kind of what this is with >> CS. I didn't know I had that name. >> Yes. >> That happened for the memorial school project, I recall. >> Right. Yes.

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>> Party reviewer. So, it's a a fund essentially to pick up the liability for them to get paid to review. >> Yes. And it's to keep track of the applicant. So, you know, if we don't end up using all the money or um things of that nature, we can send it back.

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>> Okay. >> I believe is there a little bit more that's going to be received in fiscal year 26 related to that agreement, Andrea? >> Yes, there is. >> Okay. So there's potential that if more money comes in and again it's not spent within fiscal year 26, this fund will remain as

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major for a few more years um until that funding is spent down. >> Yeah. >> So >> I have a question. >> Y I'm sorry that just jumped. >> Yeah. Yes. >> On the government debt of 4.2 million,

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is there somewhere in here where that the source of that is identified? what what the debt is whether it's school or you know water meters or or something. >> Yes. So >> also there's another about bit of debt

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that we have that we haven't started using yet but it's already committed. Those are very important numbers for the town to know before they approve more. >> Yes. So note number seven which is on page 60 of the AER it it's at the bottom

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of page 60 it begins the long-term debt disclosures for the town. So the first section when you go to page 61 is a breakout of the general obligation bonds that relate to the governmental activities within there. Um

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it does show so these are most of that debt that was taken out and is reported under governmental activities actually relates to water infrastructure. Do believe this is before the water fund started paying for as much debt. So it's all reported under governmental activities because the general fund was

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responsible for the majority of it. So I do see about let's see 1.8 8 million related to water improvements with an additional direct borrowing from the Mass Clean Water Trust of 937,000.

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So almost almost 3 million of it relates to water system improvements. And then as you go further, the sewer enterprise debt is shown on page 63 for the sewer bonds.

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Then I was going to try to find we there's typically a disclosure for authorized and unissued debt and that is on page 64. It's the second paragraph. So there is a disclaimer on here that there was $8.6

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million of authorized but unissued debt for the town. So 1 million related to the harbor dredging, 4.1 million for water system improvements, and 3.5 million for wastewater system improvements. So as of 63025,

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those were the um authorized but unissued debt um amounts that we received. Typically, those come right from the town statement of indebtedness that's submitted to the state. >> Great. Thank you. And just in the general accounts, do we

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consolidate the water and sewer activities, assets, liabilities, etc.? >> So if you turn to page 34, you'll see the two major funds. So there's a water fund and a sewer fund.

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So they are separate for financial statement reporting. Those roll up into the town, right? >> Those do not roll up into governmental activities. So, not into the general fund. >> Okay.

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>> They stay separate. Um so if you then move forward to essentially the statement and that position on page 27 governmental activities would be your general fund and then all of the um governmental so like special revenue funds capital project funds the business

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type activities column represents just the water and the sewer fund. So typically no those are not consolidated. Um when you're looking at the water sewer fund, you will see that the receivables remained fairly consistent with the prior year. However, there was a good increase in the revenues due to

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the rate increase that had been implemented for fiscal year 25. So those revenues did go up. Um due to that there is an increase actually in cash at year end. So the water fund reported 2.9 million and the sewer fund reported $1.3 million in cash

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respectively. Increase from let's see the prior year the water fund had 1.1 million now they're at 2.9 and the prior year the sewer fund was just under a million and they're at 1.3

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so that that's all that I necessarily had prepared for you excuse me I am trying to pull up >> Rebecca I pulled it about um comments >> you're talking about

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>> the comments that were received for the act for last year. >> Yes. >> Okay, great. >> So we see so to answer your question from earlier the comments that were received from the GFO for improvement. Um the first one was you know adding some language into the management's

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discussion and analysis for um debt limitations that may have an impact on planning of fine land f facilities or services >> should I be looking at. >> So that that references page

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um 17 starting on 17 is a management discussion analysis. So in here we discuss you know the financial um status of the town. it goes through like you know prior year and current year. >> Okay. >> Um so they just recommended that we include the description for that.

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>> Um the other item was um machinery and equipment in the sewer fund. Um the way I don't know if you want to explain this Rebecca. >> Yes. Okay. >> I am.

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>> I'll do my best with Andrea. So the GFOA looks at the capital asset footnote which let me see if I can direct you the correct page of the APER. So this would be page 58 of the footnote. They were noting that essentially there

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was a class of assets, excuse me, within the fund that was fully depreciated. However, um they weren't being disposed of. So, they were questioning why those assets were still on the books. Should they be

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removed because they haven't been utilized or should the depreciable estimated depreciable lives be re-evaluated? So, essentially moving forward, what the town would do is when they add new sewer infrastructure or new um machinery and equipment for the sewer

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fund, potentially re-evaluate the estimated lives. So, previously the lives might have been 5 to seven years. they were estimated for machinery and maybe it should be closer to 10 years that they're being depreciated over. So, it's just a recommendation to implement prospectively a review of

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those capital assets when they're added. Um, >> I had a question about the IT uh security that was mentioned earlier. I I know I've certainly been witnessed in my own, you know, firm about uh how we've

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had to ramp up those kinds of protections. A lot of, you know, dual authentication required to do, you know, get up and get a cup of coffee, you know, or anything. So, I'm wondering uh is is is that a level that you're

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applying to your scrutiny of of what's happening in the town? >> Yes. And I do believe that Andrea, did you not have um some IT audits that took place over the past couple years? >> You did. Yes. >> So yes, we are looking for the dual factor authentication and then

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essentially the levels of access. So a lot of that also revolves around how much authority do your primary users have to um create and post within the general ledger or is there a segregation of duties so that if somebody tried to create an adjustment within the general

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ledger um is there somebody that's required then to approve it. So how those steps work as well, but >> are there ratings or risk factors associated with the third party vendors we use like to determine whether we

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should be using them or not? >> Uh such as which vendor? >> Um the parking vendor or the um the street the the the beach sticker vendor or the fire permit vendor. They're all in different pots and you have to put

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your name and information in everyone out there on the web. So I I don't know that that was a big concern that I raised earlier. >> So it it depends on the size of the transaction. >> Yes.

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>> Identity though residents. Yes. Because of reckless town government policies. So Rebecca, one of the things that he like Dino was getting to is we have um separate websites that you go to for like parks and wreck, you sign up for the summer camp and it brings you to that website and you have to register

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with that website and then you know if you have um a real estate payment, you log into that site. Um so one of the questions I believe you sent me was like did we go through like our um those companies and make sure that they have all the certificates and security and

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things like that. Um um so that's something that they look at and that we provide and we work with our vendors sure that they have everything updated. >> Do we >> we do? >> Yeah. >> The larger vendors would probably have a sock report where they're having their controls examined. So, as part of that

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vendor process, like Andrea is mentioning, you could vet them and ask for those sock reports and look for any deficiencies that were noted by their auditors as well. >> Would part of your job be to alert us if you notice there was a vendor that that had was having trouble or is that not

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really part of your >> That's a great question. So, it depends on the level that vendor is utilized. So most commonly the reports that we're looking for deficiencies with usually relate to um a company that would be providing outsourced payroll services

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which the town does not have. So yes, if there was a report that we looked at and we found a deficiency, absolutely we would talk with management about that to see what they're doing or if there's like another vendor maybe that could be better utilized. Um, I don't believe that there were any

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outsourced items that essentially required us to look at that type of report for the town this past year. But if there is one of concern, we're more than happy to look at that next year and see if there might be an area that um, we could make some recommendations in. But I can certainly

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talk with Andrea and take a look at those reports that she's receiving as well. Interesting question. This probably falls outside the range of the audit, but do we have a cyber emergency plan? And what I mean by that is if somebody's

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screen just goes dark, there's probably like five things you do really quickly, like you unplug the machine, you write down what you were doing, >> then you call person A, person B, person C. So, is that in place with >> It's in place. It's in draft right now. We're working through it. Um we actually

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just had a um workshop with EOS which is a state um >> forget the acronym what it stands for but it's for you know cyber security and IT and stuff like that and they actually had us like grouped into different individual um you know positions like one was HR and it was like okay well

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what if this happened to you or what if this happened to you like um like as you as HR person what would you do you as the fire chief what would you do and so we kind of like um did like a mock >> um mockup of that we didn't plan on doing that again because that was really great. >> So, is it in place or still being

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discussed? >> It's in it's like a it's like a working document. So, it's in place. We have it drafted. Um we haven't finalized it yet because we're still like going through training. We're saying, "Okay, well, does this work better or is this work better?" Um we're kind of meshing it with our disaster recovery plan as well

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to make sure that just everything is cohesive and makes sense and works together. >> So, Oh, that's key. >> It is. Yeah. Something that we're like very very aware of. >> Yeah. You don't want to say call you the next morning and say, "Oh, yeah. I had

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the problem at 4:30." Like, >> oh, >> right. Yeah. >> Is this part of the uh service that's work that we do with the Danvers uh IT group? I mean, this is part of

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what >> we're drawing from that combined effort. >> Yes. Yes. It's a group effort because it's our third party of it. It's the town of Denver's um consortium and it's also the state agencies as well we're working with.

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>> So your reaction is we're we're doing enough in the area in other words to be on top of this. >> Yes. There's always more to be done. >> Yeah. >> Ever revolving. >> Yeah. Um,

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>> were there any other questions for the audit? >> Yeah, the only other comment um that was left was just the Gazsby um just the notifying that we have new gazsbies coming. >> Yep. >> So, that's received by every community

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annually. There's upcoming Gazsbies. Here's when you're going to need to implement them. They're just making sure that you're aware of them. >> Anything bigger? Uh, not at this point in time. Not something like Gazsby um 101. There is a

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draft upcoming of changes within the financial reporting model, but I don't believe that has been finalized yet. I um would it be in your scope to like help the Harvard department say for example

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um track their their business plan like we're on the verge of getting a free grant but it means astronomical operating increases and you know the the the cost of the the sewer and the electricity and the sanitation and

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environmental remediation to me seems like it would be a no-brainer not to do this, but there are people that are forcing it through anyway. And I'm just wondering if you've worked with them on like how they collect their fees for the

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boats and you know tracking their costs. >> I do believe in prior years we have actually looked at usually the the risk area for us as the audit relates to cash collections. So in prior years we've looked at their cash handling policies

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and that type of aspect. We don't typically look at the other items unless we're separately engaged to do that type of procedure because that type of review and it requires a lot of hours on our part. Um so for that type of indepth um

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special request we do have a separate engagement and a separate fee that we would be essentially providing to the town. Do you have any recommendations to the select board or to the finance committee about areas we should be looking at that we're not giving uh sufficient

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consideration of? >> No, we did not have any significant enough areas that we felt that we needed to communicate that. Um overall the audit went very well. Um we had no disagreements with management. We were

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provided everything that we were needed to be provided with. Um we didn't find anything that was um lacking of reconciliation or requiring any significant adjustments. >> And there's enough support for the financial function do you think in this town

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that is the staffing is sufficient? >> That part's hard to say. So that's not actually something that we typically take a look at. Um it kind of goes a little bit outside of our scope. Okay. >> So, we look at essentially as far as

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that goes, we would look at segregation of duties. Are there enough individuals um performing the tasks or are there too many items on one individual's plate where they now you lack a segregation of duties and you're creating a separate risk. So, we haven't noted a risk, but

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if you're asking about essentially the size of the finance department, I'm again a little outside of our scope. >> You have that u that management report. >> Yes, I do. Remember last year? Yes. Well, I was thinking a little bit to Dean's comment. We're in the process of

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growing a lot of activity particularly in the harbor. And I just as we think about that I want to be sure we were thinking about the staff implications of that particularly in light of what your comment was a few minutes ago that the review of that kind of thing takes a lot of hours. So

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this is of looking forward and just being sure that there's sufficient thought about the ongoing growing financial reporting and recording and so forth that we're going to see in years

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immediately ahead. especially like inspection of $29 million of construction, you know, supervision of that. >> We've got a lot of capital spending that's being contemplated also. >> So, I'm I'm concerned that we're doing

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enough to be prepared for that kind of new obligation. I mean, I do believe that's a great question, especially if it depends where that responsibility would also lie because that would be putting a significant amount more work either on the harbor department or your finance

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office. So, it it might be helpful to have more hands in there, especially if you're talking about the harbor department where they aren't as used to essentially financial reporting. Having somebody in there in that role that could assist in that and then communicate with your finance office

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would be extremely helpful. just to have a more objective analysis from the then from the Harvard. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Rebecca.

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>> Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. >> Very helpful. Thanks. >> Have a nice night. You too. Bye. So I think AI is probably recognized but Dean joined the meeting. >> Sorry.

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>> I just had the general sense that the financial complexity the town grows. It grows with this growth in staff, the growth in capital involvement. I just >> Yeah. I'm not sure I can see around the corner very well about whe whether we've

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got enough support for the the projects that Yeah. >> And maybe they come with their own support. I know that's >> Yeah. On the on the capital side for sure. You know, like for example the the Morino school project that was done and Essex that's kind of on our plate at the

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moment. those have uh independent you know thirdparty project managers and I know um you know through participating in the um the uh facilities um planning committee that um

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they're contemplating similar kind of approach to some of those projects. Um but they do they all have also done fairly effectively some of the other kind of science projects. um uh independent you know with with Nate and Chuck and

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>> well I have I I have a sense that it's substantially more thought through at least it appears that way to me with respect to the schools as you just point out I'm concerned about the projects in the harbor >> I don't know I'm not as aware of the planning and support

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>> I mean there are three projects four projects I may count them wrong but there's a lot of activity that's going to be going on Right. Exactly. Yes. Yes. >> And I don't know what your impression is, Andrea, in terms of that and and how that how that

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oversight works with your hours and time. >> Um well, fortunately, the DPW has really taken on the the management of those projects. So, even though they're harbor related or park and wreck related, um the DPW does like keep track of that. Um, and they also have their consultants

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as well to help facilitate that and make sure and you know they get reports from like Nate and Shock and to say like you know this has been vetted, this has been reviewed and things like that before you know payments issued and make sure that everything's being done. >> I think you know for my view the stuff that the DPW seems to touch they they

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seems to be sensitive to when they don't have the capacity to to do the management themselves. you know, whether >> I big enough it's a big enough project or they've gotten up on the ground, >> but the harbor. >> Yeah, the harbor. >> I think the DPW I have some confidence

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that they'll speak up when they >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's needed. I just don't have that experience with the harbor. >> Yeah. >> Well, we remember when they put the initially put the boat ramp in, it was a mess. >> Yep. >> They had they blew through like a million bucks. We couldn't get the money back from the contractor. We didn't have

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the bonds. We didn't want to sue them. We just did it over again, >> right? >> So, >> right, the project management should be high on the list. >> Y >> I think so. >> Which is why we've centralized it to DPW. >> So, okay. >> Because they they have the experience in

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the procurement. They have a >> facilities function. >> Exactly. Yes. Yeah. >> And then does that reach to um Rotunda to >> It does. I mean that's why you know Nate was here and he he looks at all the projects he's involved in it as well as Chuck and that's why he recommended like

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hey can we do these three or four harbor projects al together because then you know they know the market out there too to say okay these vendors would be very interested you know in these four projects together however not you know so much if we did them individually and that would save us money and you know things like that so that's not something

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that you know my office or harbor office or you know brick and rack office would have that experience so that's what DP W takes on a lot of that. >> Well, as we do them, I hope you speak up to us if you feel that there's more needed there. I mean, I just I just see a lot of activity.

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>> Yes. And we've reached that and that's, you know, one of the reasons why when we brought up the um operational assessment um that we had that they did recommend that additional person in our office, which I'm hoping to get because it's been really tough year without that extra person, I have to say. So, um,

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that's like because the treasure collector's office has taken on a lot more of the harbor receipts. You know, when she first collect started collecting them, it was like mooring, weight list, kayaks. Now, it's um launch, dredge assessment, um, a new

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ramp fee. Um, it's a it's a significantly more. >> Yes. >> And it's just more and more people. It's more staff as well, and they handle a lot of the benefits. So, um, it's just it's definitely magnified in the finance office, which is why we've we requested

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that other clerk for our offices. >> Yeah. Kind of an argument for keeping people away from our >> Well, let's talk about as we do it because I think it'll be evolving. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> So, one question is obviously we're not

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alone. Other harbors are going through the same sort of thing. Do you reach out and kind of talk with how other folks are doing it and benchmark? I mean, I'm sure Marblehead, Salem, Beverly, probably Gloucester, New Report are all kind of wrestling with these things >> and rather than reinvent the wheel,

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>> right? >> Um because for most people like financially managing a harbor waterfront situation is a pretty different piece than >> very different >> land and yes, >> municipal stuff. I noticed marinas are expanding along the Parker River up in

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there quite a bit. Yeah. >> Yeah. Certainly something to look at and >> Yes, please. >> Yeah. I mean, there may even be some consultant person who works with a couple of these communities. It's worth getting some time from periodically, you know, at your level or Tony's level just

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to say where's the world going and what are the best practices and if you could outline four or five things that could really go wrong, what would they be? You know, that's the sort of thing that could be helpful. >> Then I I assume we experienced the four

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or five things that go wrong with the ramp. >> It did >> or maybe one big we know there's the uh I think UMass sponsors the harbor people. >> I say that again. >> UMass sponsors some kind of harbor consultants.

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>> Oh yes in the harbor advisory committee. You always Thanks, Andy. >> Uh, okay. So, we also have your quarterly report. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes.

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>> Um, pass these around this money. Also, would we be able to have chance for follow-up questions once we look at them? >> Absolutely. Yeah. And I mentioned too like the um since Dan Sherman wasn't able to be here for the OPED action. >> No. Um that if we have any questions, we

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can forward it to him. Um the other thing is I was speaking of Andy earlier, we we're going to have a full OPED valuation as of June 30th. We'll probably get that final report in August. And I was thinking maybe like September would be a good time to go over that final report. um because

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that'll also include that 420,000 that we're um putting on this this year's town meeting. So >> yeah, the outcome of that. >> Yeah, exactly. So it would be really nice to know because this past year we're basing off our contribution off of a rollover year. >> Um so

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>> I always like to hear what the return is with him like my years ahead everyone else. I use that 7 and a half% ROI seems a little interesting, right? And now the 4% healthcare kind of

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>> everything looks good if you borrow. >> So I'm curious to see what his assumptions are going to be for this full evaluation this year. >> So what are we looking at? Essentially your excellent summary of all the highlighted items. Thank you.

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>> Yes, >> this is all the numbers very helpful. >> Good. So I just want to start off with the general fund revenue. Um I just kind of picked through and just noticed any like large changes and just wanted to explain any of them. So the state aid um the March payment hasn't been posted

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yet. Um but it was posted last year so that's why there's a little change yet. Um the other thing is that we're expecting more in state aid this year. Um >> does that have a material effect the fact that it it reflects the old I I just don't know. >> It's like you know $10,000 or so.

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>> I was about to say it's not much. state A is not an exciting proposition, >> but we're supposed to be getting another 20,000 on top this year. So, but I've not seen that payment change yet. And they usually change it in January, but it hasn't changed yet so far. So, maybe we'll get a payment in June. I don't

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know. Um, again, special assessments, not a huge number, but we did have one payoff full payoff in January of 2025. So, those assessments are coming back lower. >> What is this? What makes it special about it?

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>> A special assessment is like the um those assessments that you get for septic hookups or um septic replacements >> improvements. Yes. Yep. So you can it gets assessed onto your tax bill. >> So it's a betterment. It's not

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>> It is a betterment. It is. Yes. Just another word for betterment. Yes. >> Yep. >> Um investment income. We had a decrease in one of our um banks. >> Sorry, I'm still not I'm on bullet too still. >> Sure. Sorry. So, what are we being told here? One paid in full.

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>> So, if you look at the payments, we were expecting $6,000, but since they paid in full, >> um we're not going to receive that full 600. We received it. >> It's still outstanding. It's overdue. >> No, we got it in last year instead. >> Last year. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. Got it. >> Uh building permits almost doubled. Um, we had several multi-million dollar renovations um and several new home constructions this year. >> So, >> just a renovation. >> Yeah, some roads. >> These renovations were everything.

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So, not usual for us. >> Has that been a trend for the last year or two or was this kind of an outlier? Would you say >> this? I want to say these have been the project amounts have been kind of an outlier. We've always had, you know, renovations, you know, kitchen renovations, things

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like that. But the the these have mainly been in like the mansion style houses that are much larger, much bigger projects. So, the project cost has been really significant. >> Obviously, the comment is that the renovations are much more substantial, correct, more costly. >> Yes.

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>> Do you think I know it's crystal ball stuff, but do you think that's going to keep going or do you think it's really a one-time unique thing? I mean, >> I'm sure Sarah others would know this from, you know, ZBA, but curious if this isn't true.

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>> Well, I've being here for like the last 10 years, this has been more of like a one-time thing, not a every year thing. Um, definitely an every year thing for mediumsiz renovations, um, things like that. But this these have been significant.

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>> It doesn't go like this. Yeah, >> we might want to consider that one before we do that formula of 95% of previous buildings, you know, for the next year, right? >> So, >> and I know we we were talking about

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increasing the building permit fee as well. So, that'll >> be interesting. Um, ambulance receipts are running on par. Um, we just haven't posted February and March yet. Um, so I just want to note not note that. um increase in the recreation receipts

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compared to prior years. We've um sold more beach passes. >> So, I know it's going to rain this week, but I'm still hoping that you know get your beach passes in this month. >> Um >> and the significance of the increase in

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recreational receipts is just that's just a fact or is it it has I mean so the expense increase is pretty much in commensurate with the revenue. I mean I I I don't what what's the what's the takeaway from my point of

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view on that comment? >> The takeaway is that we expect more people to go to the beach um and >> Got it. >> buy a passes >> but >> so we expect more revenue. >> Yes. >> But not on a commensurate >> expense increase.

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>> Correct. >> When was the last increase in the fee for the passes? Was it two years ago? Oh, it's more reason that >> Well, then that would have been included. That would have been a reason too for this to go.

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>> Yeah, it definitely wasn't this past year. Um, and I know that they're looking at that >> again. >> Again. Yes. >> Yes. >> They considering dog walkers passes? >> Not sure. >> They seem to use it more than the sunbathers.

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>> Yeah. Maybe. Maybe >> they enjoy it more. That's for sure. We did have quite a few calls on the 15th to make sure it was like you could go on the 15th still on the >> beach to be seeing receipts for wreck programs like Sweeney Park, Masco, all that

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stuff. Is this mostly just beach at this point or is Cheryl actually getting people signing up for summer programs and depositing early? >> Yes, she's actually have a significant um income for the summer program, the summer camp, but that's in the recaration revolving account. Oh, okay.

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>> So, then this is just the general fund which is singing dates and parking is up there >> in the ambulance the receipts for February, March. Yeah, you're getting not yet getting posted, >> right? >> Usual unusual >> a little unusual. We're a little like a

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little behind. March is a really busy month um for us because it's it boat excise, motor vehicle excise, water, sewer billing um and all of that together. So, we're a little little behind. So this is a little bit unusual

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but not concerning from your point of view. >> Um then expenses um I brought this up before in September the information technology um we had some unexpected expenses related to additional Adobe licenses

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um when we also needed team viewer to subscription to assist the assessor department with some software updates. So, in order for like to complete the revaluation, um we had to have Patriot um properties use team viewer because that was the

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only program that seemed to work to get into our system here to update a significant amount of data. Um so that was that was a unbudgeted cost that >> so with that implication say on technology

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>> will we therefore >> have to draw from reserve that okay this >> either have to do a reserve like all of these that I'm bringing up now I think reserve fund transfers or or some adjustment >> at your end yes >> yes that's why I'm bringing them up so

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we can talk about them now and um we're actually doing things like I reached out to Adobe and um kind of like worked with them to see if getting a better deal um you know we needed so many licenses and switching to the standard protocol for

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that um so I was able to do that but it's still an unbudgeted cost >> well a heads up a lot of people have even the state has switched to blue beam from Adobe >> yes we're looking into that yeah >> yeah because DPW uses blue beam here

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>> u but the problem with blue beam they don't have some of the features that we're looking for. >> They all have some >> I know. So it's like so we're looking at what the alternatives are because there are some other um programs out there that kind of like are alikart um which might work better because like some offices will need like just a PDF viewer

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with the docu sign um but then other you know the select board's office would need the um you know acrobat creative suite to you know do the town report um so things like that. So, >> do they have like public machines at the town hall that employees can come to use

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or do they each have their own >> licensed personal computer? >> Um, each employee has their own licensed >> Adobe license on their free, >> right? >> Yeah. >> But not all the same. >> Not all the same. >> Some are read, right? And others are just read,

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>> right? >> But the library has um computers that you can use. Um legal professional fees we've talked about before. We had the union negotiation issues and the republic strike in the beginning of the fiscal year. Um the central ponds culbert

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project appeals. We've had some >> this is a perennial. >> We can never seem to have the budget right >> right >> on this expense area. >> Hopefully we're getting closer. In FY27 we did up it a lot. So you know compared to years prior. So other towns have some

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secret about how is there is no solve the residents. >> I'm not sure we really want to get it right. I mean if we put it out there that this is what we're willing to spend on it but we always end up with spending want to do that.

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>> You know point keeps running >> right. Exactly. >> So and the other thing too that um Tony's done is he brought he's brought in co-consel. Yes. Um so that's been a tremendous help as well >> that offering us some >> some cost savings and um you know some

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specialized services as well. So that's been great. >> Who is the co- counselor? >> Never mind. It's okay. >> Blank law firm. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I've met him a couple times so

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far. Been good. um town hall in common. The electricity was much higher than anticipated in budgeted for in FY25 and 26. Um but we've adjusted the FY27 budget. Um so hopefully after we don't electricity

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stays. >> I remember specifically commenting that that was low. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Because oh well it's a we overspent. What are you going to do? You're going to spend it. So, it was a strategy during budget negotiations. >> Despicable guy.

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>> Um, property liability insurance um actually increased 13,000 which is not what we were expecting. Um, this is based on some of our prior year claims. Um, so that line will need an additional estimated $6,300 before year end. So, again, to Peter, your point, that would be like a reserve fund or year end

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transfer that we'll find for someone. >> Sounds like our house. >> Yes, probably. It just went up. casualties just jumped through the roof. >> And for California, >> well, >> it's a nationwide issue >> among other things. Hurricane,

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>> uh, parking clerk expenses. We've talked about this before with that municipal parking stick service. Um, we currently have 41 sticks. Um, the fee for each stick is based on a minimum minimum license fee of $200 per month on a rolling 90-day average. Um, so what they

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do is they take the whatever the transaction fee per um like ticket issued, if you will, um, over three months and take that off of the $200. Um, and if we, you know, only get $100 worth of transaction fees, we owe the

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other $100 for that one stick. >> So, they get a guaranteed return. Huh. They are. Yeah. >> Love it. >> Is there a way to do it annually instead? because it's like winter months you're going to get you're not going to be you're not going to get >> so we we shut it off in the winter time and then they'll start it up say in like

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May but they won't bill us until um usually in July of July. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Y200 $200 a month is like $10 a day and we probably pull more in that revenue >> from each stick. No,

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>> there's actually some sticks that I I haven't seen revenue on. So I'm >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. So we're we're looking into that to see what we can do better because the agreement that we have, remember Dean, you asked about this before that, >> you know, I don't it's 10 years. >> No, it's five years. It's five years. Um

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but still, it's a long time. So we're um but like they're pretty flexible on what you can do for, you know, the parking stick. So like may we can work with them to maybe move the parking stick to a different location that would, you know, uh generate more ticket revenue. Um, so

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it's an analysis we'll have to do. >> So is when you add up the expenses and the revenue, are we making money holding or lose? We're losing >> We're losing money >> on it. >> Yes. >> Like what would you say is kind of the red on the guy? >> The last time I did it was um

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concerning. >> I mean, and I don't know. I was surprised. I drove into town the other day in front of the harbor. They're like five sticks just broken over on their sides. is that and then >> that's where the hybrid department part

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>> well there was a guy also working in front of the post office fixing something on his hands and knees which I thought well that's interesting but >> there were there were a lot of them just like knocked over >> thinking oh that's >> people knock just knock them and >> I think it was the snow this year

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>> no this happened within a day or two >> they're supposed to be that like if you if you tap them with your card like they're you know they move so like you're not causing any damage um but And that >> you look like you've been run over. >> Yeah. >> Knocked down. >> Knocked down. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. Like that. >> I'm sure words probably. >> So, do we have maybe not the best system here? I mean, maybe we ought to rethink that, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yes. Y >> might be cheaper to break the fiveyear deal.

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Let's look. I mean, we haven't really looked at the moving some of the parking sticks. Um, we'll see if that would help. >> They're so aesthetically ugly. I mean, it's like

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it's a bad look for the town in my opinion. >> Uh, the fire department salaries. Um, we have a $23,000 safer grant application for the March, April, May, and June salaries. Um, hopefully we'll see. I know the fire chief is working on salaries, so we

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might not even be that high, but we will see. Um, harbor expenses. We did not budget for the new um software program that they transitioned to um which is called town moing

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that um so we had the access database but access is no longer going to be supported um so we're transitioning away from that um to town war maybe a little easier for collecting and kind of Peter to your point with the

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additional workload if you can have people pay online. Um, that saves us a lot of time. >> That, uh, system is not perfect. >> No, it's a work in progress. >> It is hard to pay online.

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>> I try. >> It's agonizing. >> Trying. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Keep trying. >> Hey, I appreciate you trying. >> It's expensive to pay online, too. That's I mean, >> yeah. >> Certainly percentage charge. >> Yep. >> So, if I understand the comment here, so

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the this is just the moorings. This is not the uh the other fees. Um the what's the other fee then? >> Thank what is it? Excellence. >> Thank you. The exc Thank you. Yes. >> This is >> so that's the revenue part. This is the

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expense part. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> Um so that was just something that was not budgeted in the professional services line in the Harvard department. >> Yeah. >> Um and then snow and ice. >> Snow and ice. >> What are you going to do?

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um enterprise funds, the water revenue. Um we report I reported I just want to make a note that I reported the capital fee that has been committed so far this fiscal year. So we have one more billing um coming up in May. Um so I'll change that number for the year end quarterly report

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>> going okay or >> seems to be going well. >> People are paying it. I mean >> it's not 100% collection rate but >> pretty close. Is the uh metric working in terms of are we getting the numbers from the new meters and so forth is kind

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of >> it's still in progress because we're still like um like they're still doing the meter project. So they're twothirds of the way through the project. >> Yeah. Um so so buddy are you seeing building volumes grow >> as they like

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what happened in August but >> what happened in oh5 $10,000 water bills great >> great revenue >> somewhere bill too well I haven't heard that plan >> that's a good thing >> and the next one looking into sewer

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revenue >> it's lower so you know >> yeah we're not really sure is showing lower because the um usage has been the same and the rates have gone up. >> And doesn't the sewer operate off the water? >> Operate. So the water went up

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>> and the rate went up. >> Then it doesn't make any sense. So we're looking into that. >> Goodbye. >> Yes. So we know that's not >> making any sense. Um water treatment expenses. The onm contract is over budget by 21,000 um just based on our

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renewal. um as a renewal year. >> Renewal the renewal is more expensive, >> right? >> Got it. >> Um and then electricity is also over budget u by 6,500 so far as of today. Um and we still need to pay March, April, May, and June.

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>> And that's electricity is more expensive. Are we using more electricity? >> Electricity is more expensive. >> So we were going to put panels in these buildings. >> I hope so. I think that would be a great idea. I know we had talked about doing like town hall even. Yeah, I'm more on

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the facility itself. >> Um, with the wastewater treatment plant, they I mean they're going to be doing the whole renovation um soon. So, I think they're waiting to do all of that. >> You know, >> they make a huge difference. At least in my house they do. >> Yeah. So, and our new equipment should

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help too. Um, you know, replacing all the old >> just use less electricity. >> It should across the board. And it sounds like electricity is showing up in increases in lots of places. And I know we've talked about national grid, which is a

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complete nightmare to deal with, but where do you think the electricity costs are going? And do you feel like we budgeted enough for it across the board for this coming year? I mean, there's not a reserve in there too for that.

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>> I am still nervous, though. I I do feel right now that we're going to be using that reserve next year. Mhm. >> Absolutely. Um, as how much over that I couldn't say, but I do feel like we are going to be using it. >> I don't remember how we approached that.

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The budget for electricity was was we raised it to what it was like last year and then had the $10,000 reserve. Is that that? >> No, we kind of kept them the same in departments. >> Okay. >> The electricity put Yes, exactly. I wonder when the last time the town hall

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had an energy audit to see where the waste is. >> Yeah, I'll have to look at that. Um, >> well, >> I know we had to do it for that green community grant >> had resistance heat and they put in that the VRF system, but that we didn't have air conditioning before. So, now it's

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operated during summer months. >> So, you know, kind of even out. >> I mean, our consumption's gone up, but doesn't understand that it's more the rates. Mhm. >> Um, you know, and they talk about Kan not having enough power actually

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>> to >> get down to Loster and you know, Pli Materials is wrestling with this and CST might be wrestling with this, you know. >> Yes, I think it is wrestling. CS. >> Yeah,

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CST had to tap in from uh Monerette. They have to bring their power line in from Monerette. Wow. Um, to get to what they need. Yeah, >> I'm just going to bet that the electricity is going. We're going to be talking about electricity because

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>> I think there's more rate increases every time we block off a straight and deep, you know, the energy rates are going to go up. >> Well, there's more consumption. I mean, people are putting in heat pumps all over the place. And I mean, it's great. You drive through town and you see lots

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of electric vehicles, but they're selling less gas and buying more electricity, which means it has to flow in from somewhere and that's >> I love his attitudes. >> Anyway, whatever. I did have one general question. It probably goes back to the

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audience. So, just a really high level. Sounds like our revenue was underestimated by about 670K and our expenses were underestimated

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overestimated by about 450K. Is that about right? So are we about a million? >> It's about million. >> About a million. >> Right. >> That's familiar territory, right? >> That's pretty familiar territory. We always talk about this every year

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like okay is it does that mean and you know how do we deal with it going forward. >> So the implication of your observation is that free cash next goound 127 28 or what it is uh will be will have a

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million or likely something near a million in it from that over and under under numbers >> potentially. I'm estimating right now 600,000 or so. Last year was about a million. >> I see. >> So say I could be wrong and we could bring in the other.

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>> I mean at some point you want to build in a little mechanism like this um so that you have a contingency and you don't have to go figuring things out to then but and and kind of that's why we lowered the the general fund from 10% to

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8%. Because it always ends up back at 10% at the end of the year. So, we've kind of handled it that way a little bit and it's like a tightroppe walk, just how how much you want to fine-tune it. But it's this doesn't this isn't like wasted money like other >> Oh, no. I'm not saying it's wasted. I

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was really looking to what the implication was in terms of free cash in the longer term. >> Y >> and I think if you go up to 65,000 ft and look at it, it means that the business of running this town is operationally very efficient. It's net income. It's a business that's doing

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really well. The flip side of it is that business is >> customers. >> Yeah. It's pulling from the taxpayers. So, it's it's putting taxpayer money in the town. And I think that's just our job to help us kind of keep an eye on that. Another way to look at it is like

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we're really bad at forecasting. >> Yeah. >> So, when you go to the town meeting, you say, "We need this much money. We're spend this much money on this, this, and this." And then every year you don't spend it. >> Yeah. Like, well, why what are you telling us here? You're telling us wrong numbers. And then we're saying, "Oh, here's going to be our revenue." And well, it's different than that. So

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basically, you guys are wrong all the time >> that there's risk in you trying to be too tight. And we were always struggling. >> Well, you can always put in like like you get all the numbers right and then put in reserves like, "Okay, this is the exact numbers we think are going to happen and then we have a reserve in case we're wrong."

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>> But I think if we run into the red, that's a third rail issue. You know, we don't want to do that. >> We uh we had typed it up. Wasn't the gap less last year? >> Yes, it was. >> Because we had finally kind of gotten to a point where we were being

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>> more accurate priority. >> Last year was really like kind of like the flip year because we were using the rest of the free cash and we were um at the more less conservative estimated receipts. >> Right. Exactly. >> I mean there was you know there was it helped out with the you know the capital

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exclusion kind of approach for um for you know >> capitals the roads and pipes >> projects. Right. So was last year my memory were we about 800 or 600k type numbers? >> Was it 600 >> delta 600? Yeah.

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>> Back to >> Thank you. So, um the next item on the agenda is um revisiting the senior community center and um on the March 26 meeting we voted

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to um at least for the purpose of the town recommendation on top floor. Hold on. For us to to vote >> based on >> Well, let me just

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that it's been it's been >> purchased. No, bought it. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we've bought it. >> I cut the check. So, >> um, is it inappropriate to ask how much we're talking about? >> A million. >> A million.$1

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>> million. million dollars for the purchase. for the purchase >> for the for this >> it was 750 and then we have 250 of construction to do or something that's

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meeting voted to spend a million dollars to buy twothirds of the masons and to make that work by converting it into a two-party condo. >> Yeah. and that that has passed. And if I

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read the note on the door correctly, we are already using that space for um voter education. >> Oh, >> so we we will be able to use it immediately working with the schedule with the Masons. >> And so the the the the thing that's

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subject to our vote tonight is the $350,000 >> requested amount for for the design >> design. >> Yeah. And that comes from the um parks and recck revolving fund, >> right? >> They have that much in excess in their

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fund. >> So it's tech it it's town money, but it's not tax money, >> right? >> And haven't we voted to make it a separate article? >> It is a separate article. >> Yes. And so it is now. >> It is. Yes. >> What article number is it?

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>> Uh article six. >> It is article six. Okay. So what you want to do is change our recommendation. I mean, didn't we go a contention recommendation in as a draft last meeting which was subject to it closing? We support this appropriation. Now it's

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closed. >> The note the the meeting minute note is relative to article six, >> right? >> I'm probably looking at an older copy that's funny where it was all mixed in with article five. Yes. So, we did separate it out um in

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its own article six. Um and uh at the bottom like where it says like per petition of the select board um in the actual finance committee book, it'll it says the finance committee will make the recommendation at the town meeting. So, you can make your you know

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recommendation now and then um and Sarah will speak to or one of you will speak to that at the town meeting to make your recommendation. >> Um this is Sarah. I have joined the meeting. >> Oh my goodness. >> Good to see you.

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>> Just in time for the senior center discussion. >> Exactly. >> Perfect. >> I I think that what I was looking for is I don't believe that we've ever discussed whether we support this article. We We

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discussed the fact that if we didn't own the building, >> Yes. We didn't support it, but I think it's important for us to decide whether we support spending the 350,000.

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I mean, you know, last year they asked for a h 100,000. We knocked it down to 50,000 and they said they needed that to create schematics in order to

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start the donation drive. Um, and I had said, well, we really need letters of commitment for us to go forward with this 350. And I don't know if we've received that, but my concern is we keep

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dumping money into it to support the donation drive and the donation drive doesn't start >> right. The discussion had been, you know, getting to having some renderings, something that that they can then, you know, bring to market to to get some

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sponsorship >> and they have that. >> Uh, yeah. No, I think we have some all I've seen are some some some basic, you know, televisions. I haven't seen renderings. >> There's floor plans and there's pictures. I don't know what renderings

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are, >> but we've seen floor plans and You wanted to change it. >> Renderings would be, you know, like photorealistic images of the proposed project. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I can do that. >> Yeah, I can do

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that bill says. >> Yeah, I I'm I'm sort of I lean toward not uh taking position at the town meeting and just letting the town decide what

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they want to do. I do not feel that I know enough about this project or these plans. To tell you the truth, >> if somebody said, "Gar, you're spending 350. What plans are you getting?" I'd go,

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"Well, some pictures and some things like that." And >> we can't they can't raise any money unless they have $350,000 to do some pictures. And my feeling is I don't would I go out

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on a narrow limb on that basis? Uh not sure. I I mean I I I'm old, you know. I'm 78 years. I'm a senior, so I'm not against seniors, but uh

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uh I'm not sure. I'm sure I think the town needs to make its decision. And I don't think we I sh so I speak I I don't think I'm in the position to recommend that we spend $350,000

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because I I really don't know what it is that that money is going to go for. So >> can the select can the select board help us here? I mean do >> I am not the select board. >> Okay. Well, I can

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discuss has voted to recommend this. >> They have. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, so the 350 is going to take the project from this conceptual and do as built construction documents. >> Not as built >> construction. Well, yeah. Two. Yeah. Yep.

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>> Two bid as documents. >> I believe so. Yes. >> So, that's at least But that's >> Do you know that for a fact? >> That's >> No, that's what they're saying for a fact. Yes, that's what that's what we did. >> Yes.

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>> But um >> has it gone before the facilities planning committee, the facilities review committee, whatever that committee is you're on, Andy? >> Uh no, not in detail. It was uh there was a meeting last week where it was uh generally mentioned and and we you know

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talked about how our discussion at the fin company was that you know there was a recommendation that it that it was included in their you know in in the process. Um because there was you know we what what we do want to do with the facility facilities planning committee

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is apply you know some consistent rigor to how these projects are undertaken and that there isn't just because there happens to be uh an initiative on one project develop funding of full design. um want to make sure that it's gone

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through the proper steps to actually get there. Um because we could spend that $350,000 and end up with something that's, you know, there's no assurance that it's not going to become a $9 million project.

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You know, to to my eye, the the stuff that we were looking at last meeting was was very high level. you know there was there was not at all you know like even a schematic level estimate I didn't think >> but yeah so more importantly though is

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when I looked at those concepts I got the impression we were expanding town hall that it was a bigger oh and who's going to fund that whereas if you could put like a the function room overlooking the parking lot in the harbor and maybe

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making it more of a senior center instead of a town office expansion you might I'm concerned the way it is that people are going to get behind in funding because it doesn't seem like it's a senior center. It seems like it's >> so it just I think a few things can be

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done to make it more attractive that way and they they have >> I don't I don't want to get into the you know the use planning there necessarily but >> if I can please >> um having the town nurse at the senior

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center seems like a good match and That's probably moving the whole the board of health over there. >> Yeah. >> Um there's some concern some consideration

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since it's going to be both a um senior center and a wreck that we would have some representative from parks and wreck there. Also the council on aging seems like it's a pretty good fit for there. >> Sure. Sure.

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These are these are things that it's not taking away from it being a senior center >> in that the people who serve the seniors >> um would be moving there. >> Yeah. And I I just want you know my my

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commentary as critical as I I might have been about the you know where we are in the process. I do generally want to support the project. You know I think there's a lot of you know sentiment behind you know this this being important. And so I'd like it I'd like to see it go forward. I don't want to sty the project. Um we we have some

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question about um you know the particular request but don't want that to you know I wouldn't want to see you know if if I decided that that wasn't a good expenditure at this moment. I'm not saying that the project is a bad project

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going forward differently. >> I agree. >> Yeah. And I just I agree with Ann that that the nurse and the these people, but I just don't think their offices should be in the prime place in the building. I think there's >> other places you might need.

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>> I think we have a very rough design >> there and that the $350,000 you go a long way toward refining it. There there are restrictions because it's a it's it's a slab on grade,

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>> right? and and moving stuff around is hard. >> Yeah. >> But um who >> there things could be questions like this could be addressed in that in by taking that money from the parks and Rex excess funds. >> Yeah.

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>> And do we have to go out for bid on it because of the size? >> Um I don't know. >> What was the question? Do we have bid. >> Oh, I see. >> And this is on the architecture >> for the 350. >> Yeah, >> I would think.

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>> Right. Because it's my understanding that that number came from a specific architectural firm and my question is do we have to is the project 350 is a lot of money and do we have to go out to

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bid for those services? >> I believe so. >> Yeah. I don't know whether the question is we don't know what we're buying for 350 or whether we're ready to buy whatever it is. I mean, are we ready in

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the process with the facilities? Are we ready to buy 350 of some kind of design services or do we need more information about what it is we're buying? I I I hear >> I hear both these questions. I mean the

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fee the fee doesn't sound um you know I'm not I'm not you know questioning the fee for for getting us to you know biddable documents >> um and and so maybe I'm I'm focused more on >> you know the particular chunking up of

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the process you know how to move forward >> and and again just I guess reflecting back to where we were a year ago or so where we were talking about okay we want to see you know schematic design you know maybe a rendering or something that that can brought out to the public and you know get some you know some funding

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behind it. Um, I don't know if, you know, because some of that funding might come with like, geez, wouldn't it be nice if this was like that instead, you know, and uh, which means you're redesigning something. >> I have a question.

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>> Who's in charge? >> Good question. >> It's Nate. >> Nate is doing the senior center, >> but it's a condo association at this point, is it? >> No. I mean, is is the who is running this project? Nate is Nate running the

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project. >> He seems to be doing most of the lobbying for like the the conceptuals and stuff, but it's still in the engineering stage. That's why he's working with the architect. >> So, could we ask Nate to join us, sort of say, this is why I need 350,000. This

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is what's going to happen, and that's why you guys should support it. Or do we go, you know, we love seniors, but we're not, you know, we don't know enough to we're not going to express an opinion here. That's all. >> But Gar, we have to express an opinion

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one way or the other because it's a financial article. So, we either have to say we we recommend it or we do not recommend it. We can't. >> Is that a law? >> That's required in our bylaw. It's my understanding. the finance committee has

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to render a recommendation with respect to every financial article. >> So my my feeling is we there's no way we should recommend this. >> Well to the because we don't have >> Yeah. because we don't know you know >> to the to the point sometimes we is it

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is it do we want to do we want to invite Nate or and or Chuck you know to so we can discuss some of the details around it. Maybe we could be a little bit enlightened about the particular approach here. >> Right. So I wonder if maybe what we're

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wrestling with here is an emotional issue and a management issue. Yeah. So we all want a senior center. We've been talking about this for ages. At one point we were thinking it would be behind the fire station. It this thing has moved around for years. So now the

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opportunity is kind of in front of us. But the managerial stepbystep approach, which is what this committee is, I think kind of tasked to keep an eye on has been hopscotched over in a bunch of places. The facilities committee has not

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had a deep dive look at this. I feel that each time I hear about this, it's getting more and more expensive, and there's parks and wrecks involved, and there's all sorts of elements coming into this that weren't in it a year or two ago. So to Peter's question, are we

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do we know what we're actually trying to build here? So that's one question out there. And I think from a finance committee point of view to authorize that much money for something that is still fluid is a little problematic. I

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mean, and and I think we're doing our job here well. I mean, if Nate came to us and said, "I need $350,000 for a muffin grinder in the sewer treatment plant." We'd be asking, "Well, how old is it? When do you think how long is it going to last?" We'd ask a

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lot of questions and I think we're asking those questions here. I just think there's some steps have been skipped over and we're kind of rushing this thing through because it is an emotional issue. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I I feel like I put on my

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finance committee hat. There's a lot of problems with saying yes to this right now. >> Emotionally to to support a senior center, I'm like, yes, we want to do that. But this fincom role, I don't

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know. There's I'm I'm uncomfortable with all these things we're being asked to jump through. So, >> because one one another way to look at it, I mean, they they got 50,000 last year. They were desperate for it to get

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keep the project moving to take it to to fundraising. Well, it didn't happen. So, now we're going to give them 350 to take it to fundraising. I mean, uh I would favor I don't know if we could recommend a lesser amount. I think if we say no,

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the project doesn't move. But if we if we maybe take it to 50% design um and take another look at it um so that's a very interesting point. So on town meeting floor somebody could make a recommendation to amend this

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article to a lower amount >> like we did last year but maybe because we did last year we didn't get it to fundraising and that's why we're here again. I don't you know that >> Dean Dean last year we didn't amend it on town meeting floor it was done in advance. Yes, I know. I know.

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>> Okay. >> But we still did it. >> You know, I when we did the police state police department, we had the chief of police. When we did the fire department, the you know, the chief came. When we did the schools, that I thought the school woman is cracker jackack. I

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thought she was great. Um, you know, I'm I'm not against this, but I have this feeling we're, you know, there's a ship out there that's sailing. I want to know who's who's at the wheel. >> Do we want a meeting next week with Nate

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there? >> I think we have to. >> Yeah, >> I think we have to do that. >> That just say a flat no here and now. Yeah, personally. >> Okay, >> that I think we have to defer. I mean, you know, wait, not recommended because we don't have enough information.

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>> It is Texas. >> Can people make next but responded yet? Can people make next Thursday? >> Yeah, I can. >> Okay, >> that's the 23rd. >> Yeah,

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somewhere about that date. >> Yeah, I can make >> I can It works for me. I thought when the town voted us, we said, "We need a million bucks to buy the building. Contributions, donations, we'll take

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care of the rest." And that was sold. >> Yeah. >> And now we said, "Oh, wait, wait a minute. We need some drawings for 50k, which you kind of get that, right? You gota have something to show people." >> Now it's like, "Oh, now we're going to be in it for 400k." I believe said a million, which is 40% more than we told

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you. Um, and it's actually it's not taxes, but it's being financed by a tax on people who use parks and wreck, >> pay too much for their >> money, >> pay too much for their park and wreck. >> Yeah. >> Whatever it was. So, >> you know, as a remedy to that, they're

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going to use parks and rents are going to use the building a little bit too business is going to be a tough cell. >> Well, that's another sideline here. It's I mean it's one thing if it's its own little standalone entity and it's completely a senior center. When you

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start blending it with municipal stuff that comes from tax revenue, I don't that's a that's a hard sell I think. But >> I don't want to be pessimistic but it's hard. Yeah. We have heard

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I have heard from some people that adding um a community center to it would make it easier to fund raise by broadening. Yeah, the base could be could be >> is the deal wasn't contingent upon

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immediately doing a project was >> there is a >> there was the >> Yes, there is a clause that's that says if we don't start construction in three years, they have the option of giving us our money back.

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Okay, >> we don't have to take it because it's town property and and town property can't be re um sold without have meeting approval. >> So, it that's a pretty much neutered

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>> um provision >> might operate in our benefit in the unlikely event that nothing happens. enough reason to get our money back. In the unlikely event, >> um it would require if they make the

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offer that we take it to town meeting, the town meeting votes to um sell the property, which I I don't know how like that is. You know, maybe a question for Nate next

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week is it seems like there's a lot more usage going into this space and I wonder if there's space for just is there an opportunity to go up or expansion or anything because it seems like more and more people are joining this thing and

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mission >> the agreement as far as I have heard it >> is that the seniors have it whenever the seniors have stuff scheduled for and parks and wreck schedules around them. Meaning that mostly the parks and

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wreck use would be in the late afternoon and evening. So it's not that we're going to be trying to run two kinds of activities. I mean there may be a yoga class someplace and a knitting class someplace else but we will not be

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>> overlapping. That's at least >> it seems somehow it would be better easier to fund raise if it were like build like the horicultural hall we lost 60 years ago, you know. >> I don't know. >> We made a decision

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I think next week and ask Nate to join us. >> Yeah, it sounds like that's the >> I think I think that's where we've just gone. Yep. >> I think we should ask Nate and whoever Okay. >> is the spokesman for the seniors. Well, it would be Tony. I don't the this the

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Council on Aging had just started, so I I don't know if we'd want to get her into it. >> I think Sue Beckman has been involved. >> That's what I'm thinking. >> Sue Sue is the is the face of the fundraising and she should be she should be here. >> Who drives the bus? Like Nate is if you

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tell Nate we want to build X do a great job at >> these operations at building it, >> right? >> But who's the person who's telling him this is what we want? We want this, this, and this. I think it's too many people. >> Back to your point about that captain of the ship. Like who needs the captain of the ship?

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>> Right. >> Too many people's not an answer. Designed by committee of the camel. >> So Andrew, if we wait to next week, does that have an implication in anything worth? Okay. >> Okay. >> We just leave the text as it is and

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we're Yes. doing something in town meeting. >> All right. So let's move on then. So, next item was uh annual town meeting prep. >> What were you? >> I don't have anything. >> All right. >> All right. That

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>> I had Well, can we get a copy of the the letter that what actually went to print? You know, with the letter and the and the warrant. I don't think we have the latest support. >> Yeah. >> It's being mailed to people >> and it's on the website.

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>> It's on the website. Otherwise, it's it's probably that the last version of that doc that we all saw. >> Great. It's on the website. Okay, great. I didn't realize that. >> Finesse director update. >> Yep. >> I gave my supporter. So, that was my big

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update. >> Okay. Uh, it's time to adjourn. >> Well, I don't know. Town >> town administrator administrator update. >> Tony's not here. >> Minutes. Sure. Let's approve the minutes. I read them. They're good. I >> read the minutes. They were good. >> They were good. Good minutes. >> I move that we move.

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>> I second. >> All right. There are moves. Peter seconds. All in favor? >> I >> I >> Sarah. >> Oh, I >> And we have a meeting. Where will that

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meeting be? The pre-T town meeting. >> Well, we're gonna now, Peter, we're going to have a meeting next week. >> Next Thursday. >> Okay. Yes, I understand it's an additional meeting. I got that. and pre-T town meeting will be at Memorial School.

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>> Okay. >> Room 2BT, >> right? The little chairs. >> Yeah. >> The little chairs. Yeah. Okay. >> One of the rooms with the glass windows that nobody's tutoring in. >> Right. Right off the lobby there. >> Yes.

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>> Uh okay. Any other business? >> I'll check on that. >> Okay. Any other business not anticipated? Uh otherwise we'll take a motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> All right. Motion second. >> All right.

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>> Good to see you, Sarah. >> Thanks. Heading home tomorrow. >> Okay. Okay. >> I like the challenge. >> Good job. Way before. That was good.

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My goals.