On Thursday, May 21st, 2026, I will call the finance committee meeting to order. This is a hybrid meeting and it is being recorded. I have with me in the room from the finance committee, Andy Olderman, Dean
Nades, John Mor, Pety, and myself, Sarah Mel. missing. Um, also in the room is town administrator
Tony Barleta, a finance director in Raineia. Um, from the select board Ann Harrison and Kathy Balada, and the director of public works, the Chuck D.
Hopefully not for anybody who's on Zoom. The first item on the agenda was just kind of to discuss the town meeting and results.
>> Great job. Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. Got a lot of air time steps, >> a lot of repetition, >> in case people weren't listening. Um,
is there anything we should have done differently at town meeting? We were pretty well set or new. >> Yeah. Yeah. Can we do the select board meeting about
essentially, you know, you know how we've kind of did that italicized description, more centric description on the water capital debt for maybe doing some of that for more articles in the future to kind of give people a
little bit more of a summary explanation of what the article is about. Um, and then we also talked about having some of those more complicated motions, you know, printed
uh, as a handout or something that that way Eli can just move the article be passed as has been printed, you know, instead of him having to read. >> Yeah. In the past, I don't think Allan wrote the motions
>> like that. The PAS one was so large that it couldn't even fit on the screen itself. >> Yeah. >> So, we had to read that one. But, um, so couple things like that. Couple tweaks like that that might >> Sounds good. >> Make it a little bit more efficient. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, I thought Wow. Um, and I thought
that having all of the extra information we had in this finance committee report was really good because it gave people the opportunity or if they so chose to look at things
the table of contents so they find stuff. I actually think that's a pretty good suggestion. It's buff up. >> Yeah, >> there's a lot of them, >> right? >> Lay me down. >> Sorry.
All right. The ballot results being passed. Uh I thought was kind of interesting which leads to the opportunity to change the
bylaw was the discrepancy in the vote for each item between approving the debt >> and approval over. There was to me a significant swing in the vote. So it's
my understanding we can make a change. Is that correct, Tony? We're looking at it for potentially November. >> Okay. >> Um actually the financial management analysis that was done by the Department
of Revenue 10 plus years ago suggested that we get rid of that special act alto together. >> Okay. and you're going to be re uh redoing up updating that management review starting in June. Um I don't know
if how the town would receive you know eliminating that bylaw all together or we could see if there's a way to amend it that if you have to go to the ballot anyways that you don't have to have both questions on the >> Yeah. And what would happen if you
eliminated it entirely? >> Just the overright beyond. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Right now, if you were borrowing or spending more than a million dollars on anything >> Yeah. >> regardless of whether you needed get
exclusion, it triggers a ballot question. >> It's just confusing. >> Yeah. That makes an awful long ballot. It's >> awesome. The only thing is I had walked there so at least when I was in there there was
air condition. >> Not a very good turnout though. >> Actually it ended up turning out 450. >> Yeah. Which which Christina said ahead of time that you know usually it's somewhere between 10 15%
of boat. Um, and there really wasn't any contested races, >> right? >> Um, so when we were there around 2 3:00, >> 200 people had been there. >> Yeah. And then I think
>> we pushed we kind of pushed the word out that only 200 people had voted so far and then there was a big kind of rush and I think that thunderstorm helped a little bit too because it got people up. So, it's not like we could save money by
eliminating this by not having the ballot because we still would have to have the polls for elections, right? >> Yeah. Not it's not really a money thing. It's more of a it just created some confusion, I think, to voters at the ballot as why is there two questions for
each of the five projects? >> It's not that we won't have the ballot. We'll still have the question. just want the the the article the stick to prop two and a half copy. >> They always have we always have to have the prop two and a half override on the
ballot, but we don't need approval for the bond itself for issuing your bond. It's my understanding. >> Okay. I ran into quite a few people um during the day in town and I had my vote
sticker and said I voted and they said you vote. Where did you vote? What vote? So there there were a lot of residents or folks that I ran into had no idea there was a there was an election going. >> Yeah.
>> And maybe we need a you know sandwich board in front of town hall that says Don't forget today is voting. >> There were two sites but apparently they didn't work.
>> One way if you came into town that's not there was no I actually went to the high school to vote. I saw a note I was coming into town and there was no sign. I thought oh maybe we're supposed to do the high school. It would
be useful to have it both directions. also interesting. I was going to say around 8:30 or so, 8:15, there's only 41 people that vote. >> Wow. >> And the polls have been open for an hour and a half. And Allison when she checked me in said, "Oh, there's no sign around
town." And yet coming home in the evening off Pine Street, I noticed the sign was there, which is a great place to work because people coming home from work, I know I should go further. >> Yeah. But uh but I don't think there was as much press about this. You know, probably board selectman or others are
in the cricket. It would have been good to have a little more like >> it was, you know, >> it was in the cricket, but it was kind of blended in with a uh story about the Essex kind of meeting.
Um, we did, you know, a text message and had in the tide and >> some social media stuff, but >> and because there were no contested races, we looked at those, >> right, >> forums in advance. >> I'm just thinking about muscle memory
>> for voters that we want them to >> be used to voting and be sensitive to that. And I'm a big promoter guy. And one of the things that we could do, maybe this is illegal, is that we both
get a coupon for a 10% discount for hamburger at any restaurant in you know or I don't know what >> but I'll bet there would be restaurants who would say sure I'll let you 10%.
I'll hand them out that I, you know, I'll get 90%. Yeah. >> So, um, now maybe that's maybe that's not legal if you if you vote to >> I don't know. >> But speaking of legality, we were
limited as to how much we could use town funds to distribute information voting the ballot questions. So we couldn't we couldn't really encourage voting itself without any
>> right. So so we could kind of get out there and say the election is this day it's this location this time. Um but we we couldn't do like a mailer. Um, we thought about like a postcard,
you know, with some info and stuff like that, but uh, legal kind of cautioned us on the distribution part of it is where you can start to get into some of the legal limitation of >> Michael.
I don't know if it was mentioned. We also have the uh board, those electronic things that say slow down, you know, smile kind of stuff. Maybe we could fold in today, vote today.
>> Yeah, we had we had two of those, but they were both at the offramps, you know, right? So there were >> Yeah, >> we probably could have had maybe another one downtown or something like that. I'm pleased you get to see me smile.
>> I wonder if it would be helpful to have a me takes the vote as a percentage above forum. Like if you have 100% of the vote and a quorum, where did you fall on this? I don't think there's any quorum at the
ballot box. >> No, >> it could be one person. >> 10% discount properties gets plowed first. Okay. Anything else on that? No. Okay. Next item on the agenda is the fiscal
year 26 update on potential year-end transfers and use of the pincom reserve fund. You have something for us, Andrea? >> I'm sure there won't be any. It's filled with paper
notes. You can see for selectment salaries uh we had additional hours for communication coordinator and a rate increase and um the rest of direct payout um I think we spoke about during the budget season. uh the selecting salaries
was increased for 27 because of the communication coordinator's increased hours >> rate but this had been done before the after the FY2600 had already been done >> okay so we increased the hours outside
of the budget >> right you speak louder >> I'll try allowed increase the hours outside of the budget. >> When we when the town votes on a budget,
they're only voting on dollar amounts. They're not voting on how those dollars >> are spent. It's the town administrator who has can determine how many hours a person works as long as the total budget
comes in. All right. And what these transfers are doing is spending more in some budgets and less in others. >> It's just we're often told we can't change things without a town vote, but yet there are changes done without town
vote. Just wondering what what difference is >> they, you know, different towns do things differently. And certainly Essex, I believe Essex actually approves a salary schedule each year, which I
think is crazy. I mean, you know, it it and the other thing that we do is um as part of our article 4 at meeting as part of the motion, it says that it gives the power to the select board of the finance committee to transfer uh funds between um functions of of the operating budget.
Well, I assume you're trying to manage to the budget that you set, but that there was some that like more PR needed for certain things that were wasn't approved by the select board to do that or anything like that. Is this just a
decision that was made internally? >> Not aware. >> Yeah, I was involved in that. But the comm but but the communications coordinator I think originally
when that position was created it was originally funded with ARPA money I think I think it had first come on >> no because of >> it was a partition originally >> and we gradually increased it we had a
budget where we increased the hours so it is surprising that now we have a budget They didn't improve those hours, but those hours were worked. I think that's the question because that's doesn't usually happen. When we discuss the
budgets, we talk about moving people up. >> Yeah. >> In the number of hours. So, I don't quite understand why this happened at the budget cycle. >> Right. Right. >> Why it was spent this year when it wasn't in the budget we discussed, right?
>> I guess. But I my understanding is that that position was full-time uh for longer than when the budget was approved. It may have just not been included last year. >> We corrected it this year.
>> What's the next question? >> Yeah, remember when we corrected it this year, we showed >> a correction. It was saying yes, we're increasing those hours. >> Is that right? or >> I feel like there was multiple layers. There was she was part-time, but she
ended up working more hours than was budgeted because of the need, you know, like emergency services came up or, you know, snow plowing or whatever. Um, and so she's kind of on call 24/7. And so then we're like, well, you know, we should, you know, be paying you for these extra hours. So we increased it,
but then we were like, well, we actually need more services for communication to do X, Y, and Z. So let's increase that further. But then there was also a rate increase on top of that as well for the added responsibilities. So that was like it was multiple time
frame and layers to that. >> So now it's a full-time position. >> Mhm. >> So there's no additional hours involved. No. Right. >> I bet they just mean maintaining the website's probably a full-time position. Never was there five years ago.
>> Right. So I see that it's just a matter of waiting until you have permission before you go. >> Right. Right. >> I understand that. >> Right. And I think that with all of the zoning changes too, >> we als have have like ADA requirements
from the state that came along that we have to make sure that our website is ADA compliant, our documents are um the next one is expenses. Um, I was trying to look back in my notes because we went in our professional services for HR, we were at 45,000
for FY25, but then we went down to 34,000 for FY26. Um, I feel like we were going to reduce the hours for the HR services from 10 to 8, but we didn't end up doing that for 26. to see what
>> this study though didn't produce how big >> last year >> well we did the operational business went um >> no this is for our um shared HR director with the town of Hamilton >> oh
>> so they have 30 hours and we have 10 hours >> that's >> I know when when I came out in July we got updated contracts for both the shared concom
HR. >> Yes. >> One of them uh Hamilton picks up the full cost and we reimburse them a portion and then it's the opposite for the other position. We had to kind of
>> we had to correct that or get that updated or something. Is that part of it? >> I don't believe that was part of it. I think part of it was that we originally thought that Hamilton was going to take 100% of the conservation agent. Then we ended up taking 100% of the conservation
agent and then billing Hamilton. Um but we were like, "Oh well, the amounts might be the same, so we might just be able to like have it a wash." Um but that didn't happen. The amounts didn't work out. Um, so then we ended up taking the conservation agent um for 100% and
then we built Hamilton. So that's why we needed the updated agreements. Okay. Um, the next one is IT expenses. Um, we needed additional
Adobe licenses and not just like a you know Adobe um reader Adobe. Um, so that was the added cost about like $8,000 that was not budgeted. >> Just increase in the number of users not
changing not updating the software both >> both. So it was increased use of Adobe. So, so you needed the full Adobe services rather than the reader, >> right? >> Which is what I discovered that I had to
upgrade my personal Adobe because I wanted to access the stuff from the town. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And now they're all subscription based. Kind of drives me crazy because before we were just buy licenses and we would have like, you know, one license
and five users. Um they don't do that anymore. Um so in order to update the Adobe we have to have per user subscription license. >> Yeah. Um which is more of a cost. >> So this is unrelated to something we all talked about which is the upgrade to
software account more generally which I think we are held off to. >> Yeah. The financial software. >> It is. Yeah. Um we also needed some website accessibility um project that we
needed to update. Um the additional um and then we also had additional users for new employees for our IT service desktop service fee where we like you know submit tickets. Um they
charge us per user. Um so we've hired some more people and our user fee has gone up. So in the future when we're doing a budget and adding people are we increasing that component of our budget? >> It is on my list now. >> Okay.
>> It's all we could ask. >> Um the next one is the assessor's expenses. So as you know um Michelle left and we have an interim principal assessor. Uh we are paying him as a vendor. Um so we will need to transfer
salaries to expenses to cover that. um legal expenses. I've talked about this I think all year. I hope we want to get into that a little more, but that's my estimate right now what we might need for that line. >> I guess what we would like at the next
meeting maybe is to have a list of what those expenses are because years ago we received that and now we're just hearing they're going up but we're not seeing lists of what we're spending the legal expenses on. Yeah, I keep track of that
every year. >> Yeah. So, if you can just give us a list at our next week and then maybe once during the year or something >> on the excessive expenses, is that the delta of, you know, what we're saving from the salary that
>> or is it a overage? Is it a total? >> It's a little bit of an overage. Um, right now I have $25,000 left in assessor salary. Um, so about $6,000 more. >> Would if we if we approve this 31, would
that 25 just go into the >> We're not approving anything tonight. We're just discussing this and then when we get to the approval process, she would tell us exactly what account it's going into and what account it came from. So, we'll be able to see more details
>> on that. This was just trying to >> explain. Yes. >> But the reason it doesn't cover other is there is some increase. I'm a little confused. What caused that increase? >> The vendor. >> The vendor is just simply more expensive. >> Yeah.
>> You have to pay overhead. >> No, I got it. I just want to clear. >> Well, and I think that >> with an employee, we're paying benefits someplace else and with a vendor, we're not paying the benefits are coming. the vendor.
>> So the rates higher >> on legal matters the sky's the limit for it just goes up exponentially just about Yeah. We we when we were developing the budget this
year, we looked back, I don't know, three to five years, and our budget amount over the last three to five years was routinely low. So, there was some kind of correction needed
anyways. However, this current fiscal year has been a very expensive legal year for us because of a number of special cases which we can give you that list. I think we talked about it a little bit at that time. We can >> we can show that
>> I think we have contract negotiations. We certainly had a CBA case that I think went on for four years and it's finally been resolved. >> Um we have the 40B appeal. Uh we also select board approved uh the
appointment of a co-consel another more localized firm that can do for a lower hourly rate um do kind of more simple day-to-day type stuff for us. So
he had a contract for a vendor or for a professional service in some store instead of sending that to people for 200 something dollars. Now it was intended to tempest fugitive for hundreds for a quick review. So we're kind of
trying to come up with some creative solutions to just watch the budget go 100. I mean the budget no less what we actually spent. Yeah. It's just >> yeah, >> it's painful. But I think that you know
there were speaking as DBA chair, there were years when we were really restricted in our ability to get input from town council in advance of making a decision. Now it's e there's easier access for
that which I think saves money in the long time because the decision should be better reducing the risk of an appeal which costs more everything's becoming more complicated
council that falls into your hands and we have the actual management of legal counsel what they're doing. Well, techn technically the select board is the authority of spending of the legal expenses.
Um, usually, but yeah, but daytoday >> the rule the policy really is that if you want if you need legal advice, reach out to me and then >> we Yeah, we try to figure out a
cost effective way of getting that. people. Sometimes it can be, you know, it's it's easy to kind of really rack up and sometimes questions, you know, we
just ask the similar question for another board. Let's just we have the answer, you know. So, it's just kind of like uh managing it that way. >> Yep. Well, it needs management. So for bigger for bigger legal cases, you know,
that type of stuff is will be is elevated to the select. >> It's not a complaint. It's just reality. >> Yeah. Often times you don't get management. I mean, right, you must know. Well, the attorney tends to be much more
reasonable if they know someone is looking at the bill and calls them back and says, "You charge $4500 to do fill in the blank." Um, believe it or not, I'm sure all attorneys are are
very have high integrity and morals and what have you, but sometimes they're a little more uh careful. So, we had we we had that conversation with KP Law around budget prep time and they too were a
little alarmed at the five-year look back, not even realizing like how much um and we put a pen in the discussion for now, but we started to talk about maybe it makes more sense to have some type of like retainer
and then, you know, special cases would build off of that versus just an hourly So, >> one of the other things we do, we get a big legal bill, we just call up and say, "This too high down."
>> And they know we're a good client, so they go, "Okay, what do you think it should be?" God $10,000 off that $45,000, you know, whatever it is. >> Amazing. Yeah. I don't know if you're comfortable with it, but Dan may remember years ago we
used to literally on the finance committee get like once a quarter, once every two months a list of the legal things in process and it was set up like a spreadsheet with columns and I remember at one time we had 11 or 13
law events happening in progress and the first first row was the date was first initiated. So this committee actually looked at that and said, you know, we've been working on this one now for four and a half years. Should we consider making this a priority to end it? And
I'm thinking of certain individual had a garage and and so many things ridiculous. It was like, let's just get it off the books. And I think I know you don't need more management, but sometimes a group
looking at something every two months is a helpful reality change that role the so that the next one is land salaries. um >> compared each of the salaries and also the HTC clerk had additional hours. Um I
know they some projects in downtown so I'm going to look into that. Um the next one the facilities expenses 75,000 for electricity. Um, I'm doing a full analysis of electricity.
Um, because it's hit a lot of departments. I should check that we just talked about this earlier because like the water department seems okay, but every other department has been hit by electricity. Um, so that's something I'm working on. >> Can you change this year's budget so that
you've got a piece of the electricity in your budget? >> I do. Yes. This indicates that it's well above that if that's what you're telling. >> Yes. >> Yeah. This is more than the rate changes just on much.
>> Right. Right. If you remember like last July, August, I mean it was like 90 something degrees over a long period of time. Um and now we have the HBAC unit and it was running a lot longer. So again, I'm going to look into it and see what where it opens. Certainly when we
inverted over the heating system, we were told it would be less expensive. >> Just saying. >> I say I didn't say that. >> It's less It's more efficient than electric resistance. >> Yeah. >> But we didn't have air conditioning
before. So we're adding a lot of power, >> right? I think that's it. Yeah. >> And it's and I'll tell you >> that it's pretty cold in here in the summer. Yeah, >> I think there could be adjustments on the temperature. >> I'm freezing right now. >> Yeah, I don't blame you. I wear a
sweater on purpose. I thought, >> right, so there's opportunities for >> I was also just wondering, I know electricity is showing up on four of these items. >> Are are all electric bills how many electric bills do you have? Do they all
come in under different account numbers? Is there any chance to like aggregate them all up and negotiate a different like one bill number utility? But >> I know I've talked to several times about that. >> Um and that's just not how they're set
up >> because I was like it would be nice to have like one master town of Manchester account and then have the sub accounts underneath it. Like I mean you can do it with a bank account, you can do it with you know one of our places. Um but they're like no we absolutely do not do that. It's like it's like subscription
model 75,000. I mean it sounds like a plug number for a slush. >> I mean is is are there bills that do show where these this 20s seems like we need backup for something. >> Well, she's looking at the actual versus
the budget, right? >> So I'll have that. >> I guess just one more comment. It's kind of like a five year 10 year thought process plan. But if there's any places that we can put solar and offic >> and and I don't know where that is, you
know, on the top of this or top of that or something to deal with, but >> that stuff does pay back for itself. And if we can take a we can nick this a little bit before it gets really astronomical.
Uh the other thing is it's the beauty of being a utility is that you have a monopoly and your customer can't go anywhere else. So when they say, "Gee, Andrea, I understand what you're asking for." We just don't do that.
>> Which is sort of like the >> call it the Irish salute or the whatever it is, you know. >> Um >> and uh so sometimes you say, "Well, guess what? I have a meeting with the municipal KBAN municipal uh finance
officers association. We just might form a little group to talk to that would cause shivers to go through their uh bone structure. So you know some ways I'm not you know I know something else
to do >> agree doesn't share the next one is unemployment expense um I don't get this one at all right um so this is very recent so we had a retired offic that we were using for um police
details and they um aged out um per the state requirement and so uh We were misinformed that they could not claim unemployment because it's like a forced retirement. Um, but that's not
the case. So, we are appealing it, but that's the amount that we would owe if the appeal is not in our favor. >> For details, >> how long can be there limit to the time frame? I'm not sure about the time limit, but they're
limited to $33,150 maximum pay >> a year. >> No, total. >> Total. >> Yeah. If the state terminated the employment, then they should pay, >> believe me. Yes. So, that's why we're appealing it because, you know, and it's
police details. So, it's like, you know, but a majority of the details that he did work are town details. Um, so it is town money as well. So are we do we have a procedure in place that in the future we figure out when somebody's out?
>> We do. >> Oh, we have we have a procedure in place that reviews all unemployment claims and we get a lot that uh you know somebody who works for the
town in a seasonal capacity and also works for a private company in a seasonal capacity. They filed for unemployment. They list both and sometimes that comes to us and then we have to go through an appeal process and explain why, you know, it's not our
claim. >> So, >> do we have any control over who works details? >> Yeah. >> So, I don't get this. I don't get this. I mean, >> so our policy now is that we're not going to be, you know, we'll not hire
retired officers through our details. >> But details not like a full-time job. It's >> it can be a >> Oh, yeah. I mean, like like if when we're doing street and there's an
officer there for the summer. So, and then when the How important? >> Well, we've got the street who's been working eight hour shifts every day. >> Like we work for someone else by private party like the weekend at Marshall town.
Well, that's how you're >> it's it's more we have >> employee. You're kind of >> we have reserve officers that are not full-time employees and if details are made available and there's no full-time employee that takes it, then reserve officers have the opportunity to take
it. Uh, in this case, it wouldn't matter whether he was full or part time. He aged out from being able to be a police officer by state law and then filed unemployment in house as an employee
>> because there's no guarantee like the next day he would get more details. Right. >> If I'm doing details right now, I'm not supposed to be able to land. >> There's no guarantee I get a detail tomorrow or next week. Is that right? Exactly. So that's how like >> right but that's just how the
unemployment process works. You list your previous employers and then they send it to us and then it's on us to kind of catch it and make the appeal >> and make the claim why we should get money trying to claim it's our legal
>> that's actually that's just clean house that's not legal. >> It's arbitration. So is your decision ability to choose who gets these details covered by contracts? You have a fair amount of
latitude to say this person's retired or not. >> Union contract does dictate that they get first bid at the details >> for full-time office. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But the reserves aren't in the union. Correct. >> They're not.
>> Yeah. However, at a certain age, you can't be a reserve officer anymore. >> What age is the age you like? >> Is it 65 or 50? >> It's 60. I think it's 65. Yeah. >> But it's not
>> retirement age. So, there's this abandoned career. >> Yeah. Watch this. >> Right. So, so you could be a retired police officer, but you're still eligible to work as a reserve officer for 10 more years.
Yeah, it >> for the most part that is a huge benefit. >> That's fine. >> Is this is this something new that's come up or is this happening every year and I just missed it? >> No, this is new. The first file is on
file. I think that's it. I think that's >> and this is the first time we've ever had someone reach the age as well. That's the situation. >> That's a different This is the first time >> to like fire,
>> right? >> What department is that employee? >> Police department. >> Um the next is casualty property. Um I realized I forgot to include um 7500 of that 12,000 is um a legal settlement we
had um that was not included in the budget and then I get the renewal for the marina policy in May um unfortunately so and it was it went up a lot higher than I previously anticipated. Then we had some other
related to our launcher operations. I mean the launch operations is should we be allocating more expense in this particular category to the launch operation than we have in the past if we did this year.
>> Right. Well, I'll have to talk to our insurance rep for that. Um because we did the marina policy before we had the launch. Um and the launch is effectively covered under that policy. Um so that like the adding the launch didn't change
the policy just the rates went up. >> It's just >> because I remember debating a little bit whether we were allocating enough in the insurance area. But I got it's simply a rate increase right.
>> I'm all too familiar with this. U the next one was police expenses. Um I talked to today he's he said he needs a um some more funds um but he's providing a memo. >> Todd's going to provide a memo to me I
don't have yet. >> Um the next one is fire expenses. Um that includes electricity, it includes medical evaluations u for the new hires, uniforms and protective equipment for the new hires. Um we also have increased um ambulance billing collection fees um
because we are actually collecting more and they I believe it's 4% of whatever they collect is what they charge us for fees. Um so we did not include that in the budget. So, so this is a result of the safer
grant that was granted during the fiscal year. So, we didn't know about it when we did the budget. So, we didn't know to include additional expenses for >> correct. >> Sounds like it's a wide range of things.
>> Yes. >> No, but for new employees, we should be including that in the budget. But the saber grant was presented >> in the fall, I think, after we did the budget. >> That's why we had to do a reserve transfer from the 50 pound
account earlier this year for the match, the 13,000 or whatever it was. Yeah, >> I believe that was for the SCBA. >> Oh, that wasn't safer. No. >> No. Okay. So with the safer grant,
obviously we have pick up another employee or they have to go through training. There's probably OT associated with that. Has that been rolled into our budget that we did this year or is that catch up on next year? >> No, we did include it in this year's
market. >> Okay. But it wasn't covered by the proceeds from the grant. >> The overtime is not covered. the salary 75% of the salaries >> 75% >> but all the firefighters we've had I
expect they wouldn't be OT >> including training does include training is that under salary >> if it's under their regular time so what's the train structure as
>> right it's like 4k it's the that's the I it's the drives it not the actual Um the next one is parking clerk expenses. We talked about those municipal parking sticks. Um we're on year two of year five of the contract.
>> Um do I get these sticks are not a success? >> Successfully. It's definitely not a profit enterprise revenue, but it does it's it's been effective in turning over parking spaces
which was the original I from what I understand was the original kind of initiative on it was it circulate parking spaces. I thought we had a hard time find parking enforcement. >> Oh, right.
was putting them in a position. >> It was one of the group >> are parking fees, you know, for um you know, when somebody parks too long, are they benchmarked appropriately or should we be pulling in more revenue
from that to help cover this? That's a selection, I'm sure. But I I'll I have to double check with Todd on that because I I think some of that is dictate I got state.
It would be interesting um to know whether the violations on Beach Street cost less than it cost to park in the lot. That's true in Boston. Yeah.
>> Cheaper to to run a run a tab. >> My guess is it is here too. That I I think that's part of the game. And it may be because we don't have control over how much would be fun. >> Well, if we were if you had a standalone kiosk
that you had to guess, right? um you would then have to pay for the enforcement side of ticketing those who overstay where the sticks are doing all of that automatically.
So when you compare the two options, it's not as drastic as what the contract, but the rate changes based on like a play or >> the rate doesn't change it. It's based off of like a rolling threemonth
average. So it depends on how many violations are issued. And we're we're required to pay $200 minimum per activity based. >> Yeah. If we checked and made sure and we are able to raise our biomission rates to the highest possible level, we're
achieving what we bought the sticks for. I think you're taking a little of the >> red with a part of the residence stickers really really bothers me >> and I hope that we're going to be looking
that whole system. When that conversion was done, we were told it would save the town money. >> Yeah. And it's costing us a heck of a lot of money and it's making the parking
lot not accessible to many town residents because people get a sticker for every car. So all the kids go individually in cars now rather than having to go together because parents didn't buy a sticker for
each of the cars they owned. So this one greatly disturbs me because we questioned it when it was really originally recommended and we were told it would save us so much money.
Well uh the next one is harbor expenses. Um we end up moving from since Microsoft is not supporting access database which is what we use for um filling and tracking and things like that. Um, it's time. Um,
I may have another funding source for the $4,000, but I just want to put three here just in case. Um, and then 3,500 for uniforms because now they have to change uniforms. Um, so they're harbor officers now instead of harbor assistants. Um, we have to do safety
requirements and things. Um, Um, and then water seller sellers expenses, sewer sellers expenses. I'm looking into this. Um, I just put numbers in there for now. It's definitely not probably not going to be $50,000 each. Um, but there's some items that are over like electricity. Um,
contracted services. We didn't have the renewal for the year um for the budget, so that's about $21,000 over. Um, lab testing is over. um professional services >> that we're doing more lab testing or against this rate increases for all sorts of elements that are now listening
is that I mean this number is driven by just simply both >> they charge more to do it how is both more labs and >> retest more than the state recommendations >> uh no the state has
So on some of these things that come up during the year, is there a way for us to be better equipped with understanding the cost from doing the budget cycle?
I mean, can we press to find out what rate increases are going to occur, etc. uh before we get into the year we have any control over that. It would be good to think about that. >> Yeah.
I know a lot of times for you know our annual costs for say like you know our permit software or um software products and things like that the the rates already in so we don't include that. does not have the rates like I think you
have a lot of them that are like based off of like consumer price index and uh >> so like our things that we do on crystal the water contract for that is based on a like March CPI so like they're not willing to give us a firm price in
October they're waiting to see what the CPI is March for that July that's so like we don't typically when you wouldn't have it before Tom because it's too fast between >> release of the March CPI for you.
>> Yeah, typically work that way. >> Yeah, >> but inflation is going to probably continue >> though having a way to take this under the budget a little bit would be a very useful general concept. I don't have to
do that. >> One that drives me insane is the chemicals and the tariffs that we had to pay and then they're getting all the money back from the tariffs. >> So we don't get >> we're not getting any of that money. Like that's just like it's crazy. >> So the total budget for three year is
like $35 million something like that. >> 424. >> So this number here is 400 something. So we're talking about 1%. And so the question, you know, from the
30,000 ft is um can we be more accurate so that we don't have to just >> But but just remember >> what served. >> No, no, but remember this number is coming from other areas of budget
where we saved money. >> So it's not We're not spending an additional >> net out. This is before the net out. I mean, this is But what what amount do you think is going to need to come out of the things reserve? That's the
>> Yeah, there's quite a >> We don't have much. No, I I went through and I um including the reserve fund. I've already told up $855,000 of turnbacks um already. >> So, we shouldn't be able we shouldn't have to tap the reserve fund at all. Is
that what you're telling us? >> Yeah, you don't need to. Okay. >> I usually use the reserve fund in case like there's anything in like an enterprise fund. Um it's easier to transfer from reserve fund than from another department. Um >> that's good.
>> Yeah. But I think that yeah we kind of feel that the reserve fund should be >> unexpected you know expenses right >> not for excess expenditure unic
yeah I mean I think the quarterly reports you give us are very helpful >> and going through and looking at the delta or looking at the the percent spend that we have on stuff that's not symmetrical But you see something really
but that's >> but some of this stuff lumps up in Q4 but for the budget and that's where that's where this becomes a problem probably not why didn't we know about that earlier and >> well I got some of the larger ones like
the mal parking ve >> um >> the Electricity is tough because it like you see in the summertime it's like really really high. Winter it kind of goes lower and then you know rates change and things like that and I'm not I don't know until right >> it like jumps back up again
>> and your peak usage is right around the beginning of one year the end of another right >> so you've got kind of like a billing transition. So when we look at the schedule, we have to approve these before the 15th of J July. Is that correct? That's
correct. And the select board has to approve them. Correct. >> Does it matter the order in which that's done? No. So it looks like we need to have a meeting maybe on July 9th
cuz last year we had to schedule at the last minute right and there won't be any changes after July 9 correct. Okay. Anything else on that from anybody? Next item is an update on the sanitation
project. I read something in the paper about glosser and it made me super nervous. Glosser and Beverly are feeling the pain right now. They are in a similar boat as us as that their public contract expires
in June. Um public like many other uh curbside collectors are pushing automated collection. Uh and I know Beverly better than Gloucester,
but they're moving to that automated collection transition starting July 1st. Um which is leading to an increase in their trash fees. And that's where like a lot of the newspaper
articles are about this like sudden your trash fees going up, you know, hundred something dollars starting next month type of thing. And you're going to be limited on how much trash and how much you put out. These are the size barrels. And
it's a it is a uh in every town it is a difficult conversation. But where do we stand? We we we have been begging Republic to give us a formal contract. They've given us numbers. They've given us kind of a breakdown. We've asked them
to put it into a contract. Uh we've expressed to them that we don't want to transition to automated collection on July 1st. We know it's coming. Um we'd prefer to kind of go through a public process before we do that.
Uh but that will come to a cost more expense. The future contract is more expensive for every month that you don't do automate collection. >> But how do the numbers we're receiving compared to what was in the budget?
>> We had five. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> We had a good >> I mean we're I I see no issues with our FY27 budget. >> Good. Okay. I think the the question that we are the Tony and I have been answering there uh
is the carts themselves and how we you know recoup the bag fees that we are currently going out as a revenue source versus potential fees. And so we're trying to really have those numbers
up firm before we roll out whatever you know the program needs. But I don't think that's a cost issue in the public so much as a you know different size cards cost different amounts you know the fallback plan if you don't if you go with smaller cards
which is cheaper you know becomes more you know of burden on the so like there there's lots lots of things lots of kind of details they don't have because we're so contract you know to be but the contract itself will be covered in
>> well you need to be careful about socking a lot in fees versus covering it in the property taxes because the property taxes are deductible at the federal level and fees are not. And one of the savings we have in our >> what
>> if you >> right if you um you know so the the extent to which we can drag it out then we've got savings from the oped that would cover the lost revenue from those orange bags
but that would be a year out >> yeah in the very you know again there's a lot of discussion to go through. But our our initial analysis was that if someone puts one bag of trash out every
other week, they're spending $1 to $150 in bags a year. So with the automated collection, you're removing that expense. So you know, that's a very conservative kind of soft approach that if we did have to do a fee, we try to
keep it to that or less. Um I we don't really know how it divides up, you know, as far as people putting one bag out every week or two bags or one every other week, but we're kind of using that as a gau. >> I think one bag a week, frankly.
>> I don't put out a bag a week. >> I don't I do about a bag a month. >> Well, it's five packag $11 a month. Yeah. $150.
So kind of an interesting question per household to collect trash. So how much does it cost current arrangements? >> Yeah. Under the current arrangements, how much does it cost to come to 11 Jersey Lane where I live and pick up the
track divided by said new the new rate or the old rate? No, the old weight was 36 365,000 and what 300 3,600 households
>> plus the disposal pick up on dispos, a year 400,000 of trash collection >> collection was 365 and the budget >> okay >> disposal was separate >> right right
>> was 200 but collection was 365 I would add those two together. Yeah. And >> so that's 605 >> and divide by the number of households. >> 2900
2900. Sorry. Oh househ. >> What? >> So is it about $2,000 a year per household? That's the way it worked out. >> How many households? >> 2,900. No, it's
>> we don't pick up for commercial. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Number 26. >> Yes. So, just um I think there's two things to consider when you see these. >> Can we just do the math first? >> Yes. No, the math should um take into
consideration. Um like you said, Sarah, there are some um entities where we don't pick up the trash. That includes some households required to have private trash. >> Okay, >> that's a lot of it's not it's not a blank and every household gets their
trash, >> right? But we all >> there's 2300 residential housing units is my understanding. >> I thought it was more than that. I thought it was 30. >> No, 3200 or
about 2400 I think. But a certain percentage of those if they're an apartment or other types of complexes they their trash is not picked up by the town. I just wanted to >> raise that. >> So to Gar's question >> per year per year.
>> If I take 605,000 and divide it by $2500, it's $242. That's doesn't that seem like a bargain? It's 20 bucks a month. I mean,
there are many things that seem like a >> and we've been using 300,000 of bank fees to cut that in half. So, the >> that's what we're losing now. That's what we're trying to replace. >> Yeah. But that's not very much.
>> No. Yeah. Because the other the other option is how much does it cost to hire four employees in a garbage truck? >> We can bring our own trash. >> We're not gonna actually that's not a wild idea. We've
looked at it though. The issue that you run into is that we do have a contract with wheel graater for trash, but recycling >> is managed by Republic or waste
management or you know the companies that do the collection and they're they're going to end up hitting us on the other end. >> Yeah. Yeah, they will. Um, so I I drive a road in Peody that's normally been manually picked up. I've been watching this for years and for the last like two
months, they have an automated system that runs down that road. And I will tell you, it's impressive. This thing moves. >> It goes really fast. But you want to be damn careful if you've got a or an elderly person out there.
I mean, it's like a tree, but we're is 114 coming out of the Northshore Mall. How does this work on our streets? I mean, at the
beginning, >> No, I know. But >> it's all little towns. Um >> Yeah, I know. I know. I'm just saying I there are a lot of little roads in Manchester. >> Yeah. So they'll have >> they'll have a different truck than
smaller tighter roads that probably doesn't lift it up over the top. It just >> the guy want to get out and >> um that's not our problem. >> I mean the bigger I know I'm just I'm thinking about >> the cost of the bond was going up around
300 I think you said. and we're going to be losing $300,000 in bank. So $600,000 close to $600. >> That's not what we got in here. That's
not what we become here. We have five, >> right? But you're disposable. I'm combining the two. So >> you know >> no we had 200 in we decreased in disposal line so we have
a total of 720 versus 605 it's not that sound I feel like we when we might be price. >> Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Sorry. Well, no, you changed it to 885.
>> Yeah. When the numbers came in. >> Yeah. >> So, this is a transition. But next question is once we get through this transition on the barrels and all that business, is it are we looking at the same sort of
trajectory of increase each year? That's what I'm more concerned about is FY27 we feel comfortable with especially we're going to increase the bag fees to kind of cover some of that cost but once we do the transition you know what what what Republic sent us was what 5%
increase first year in the total cost of the contract for a fiveyear contract. So we're, you know, we're pushing back. >> Um, but it's the outlier years that So, one more question on this front. If the town invests in a whole bunch of barrels
or residents invest in a whole bunch of barrels, does that tie your hands on who you can negotiate with to as another hauler? Is it barrel specific? >> Are they universal? Are they universal enough that you get
bad vibe from somebody? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They're they're going to be our barrels. >> When you look at all the other towns that do it, it's the name of the town and the barracks. >> It might be like a beach where you get a different color barrel every year and
it's $150 barrel, right? you know, you have your So, that's one way to supplement it, but it >> get rid of trash. >> So, is it based on the weight of trash or the number of households? What is the
um structure? >> Separate for collection and disposal, >> but some of the weight. So part of the consideration as to whether or not you impose fees is if you impose a fee, it incentivizes people to throw out less, therefore reducing the weight of the trash and potentially contractual.
>> I think the other ele it's a whole thing looking at all three elements, the recycling, the trash, and the compost >> holistically. We had to talk to them about ramping up the promotion and tracking of residents utilizing Black
Earth which in Manchester by see it's the best bargain. >> It's free and so and that's the heaviest product in the waist stream. So the more we can push the composting. >> So you charge me for less for barrel trash barrels if they actually do.
>> Do we give enough? Uh we could we could do like if there was a draft you could give an abatement for those who are enrolled in black. >> It probably would cost us more to do calculations that would make them
>> how do you monitor the usage of recycling? I mean you have to somehow be attractive compost both compost. Yeah, black retracted. But I was thinking both elements gets reduced by both.
>> Um, in the Glaster contract, they were having a larger barrel for recycling and a smaller barrel >> Exactly. >> for trash. And then I think they weren't charging for the first set of barrels,
but like if you wanted and I think it was 35 gallons for trash, which isn't very big. >> Yeah. >> Um and then if you wanted more, you had to pay for another bail, >> right? >> So you can do it based on the size
>> is about the size of a large bag. Something like that. Oh, like I don't know 5 to 10 years ago the the big push was to recycle because it was cheaper >> which is why we found that >> recycling is now more expensive than
trash. So really the solution is >> solution is compost is we trained everybody to separate stuff right and they went to single stream like that lesson. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's crazy. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> I did have somebody this afternoon said, "I wish we all had to take our trash to the, you know, whatever they call it." >> Transfer station. I love being able to talk to people at the transfer station.
>> It was like a community communication. >> You still can do that. I do like you spend there. >> I do. You do have so you know about parking Boston you know that where the bargain is there between
the green side I'll tell you >> between curbside collection the transfer station and free compost that is like gold star service compared to other community not have curbside and
transfer or they're paying for compost and we have a Cadillac and but in other parts it cost $340. >> In other parts of the country, they don't charge for the barrels. They don't charge anything for trash collection. >> Really?
>> We we we pay about $1,000 a week for composting. >> I think we do. I mean, >> no, no, no. But the town pays black >> that also gets reduced over time. >> More compost you produce.
How's the really? >> Let's move on. >> Update on Central Street Culver. Do we have an update on the grants? Well, so uh MIMA reached out to us that they heard that Puma was asking if we uh if
December of 2027 was enough of an extension on the brick rate. Uh we responded requesting it to go to July of 28 so that way we have the full ability of either this winter season or next winter season. Uh it'll be few weeks
sure before we hear back but that's it's a good sign that FEMA has asked that question. >> Great think this still exists. >> Um now the PAS contract I think that went
out to bid. >> Yeah. So the general contract went out to be. >> Yeah. >> Thinking we got numbers that were in line with our estimates. So, we actually did issue a notice of intent to award, but it's pending our we are on the
intended use plan for SRF, but we also need to go through the formal application process, >> okay? >> Which takes a few weeks. And so, we're that's in process, but we can't award the contract until SRF says it's okay to award the contract.
>> Um, so >> that's where we're at. You found that the upfront cost difference between SRF and conventional. >> Yeah, we actually shocked how different >> very close they were. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Um I believe it was around $150,000 11 plus million dollar bid. >> Um so Andrea, how does that impact the difference in interest rate? How does that impact project rejected
cost of the tax rate? >> No, less than that be in half >> probably. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. So instead of a 3% increase, it would be one and a half% increase. The other thing, Andrew, I don't know if we've taken this, I kind of I was on a
glorified uh public service announcement, but from SRF today, and they also issued 0% uh bans, so you don't have to ban it at all. Um so I don't know if we've taken that account but so we have not
>> duration of the project is basically for sorry >> state revenue revolving environmental trust voting somebody mentioned that some of
the laws were under revision or something and >> is Sure. >> Is that water or not? >> It is it is true that EPA did issue uh different guidance and uh future forward
thinking to be passed but they would not impact the link wall project at all. They were they're all like separate things that don't really apply to lustry. and keep my DP
uh codified similar requirements. So even if EPA backed off on their requirements, unless the state does the same, we would still be subject to the >> apparently the state change.
>> Okay. update on launch service subscriptions for this year and Harvard tour just so I understand why we came out in the last central street think I'm hearing good news that's
>> the brick arena was for like 4.8 8 million and they came back and said, "Can do you want an extension through December 27?" And we asked for July of 28. So if that
grant comes through, we basically don't have the bond, >> right? basically >> I I won't I won't say that until we have a signed extension in front of us, but >> the signs are positive.
There's a little bit of creep. >> All right. So, uh, on the back side of this, down the bottom is your Harvard launch subscription numbers or align with what you were looking for in your, uh, agenda.
So, right now we're at 44, but it usually it hasn't fully come in yet. So, he's expecting 70 plus. >> No, we're doing outreach to people. I know the first year we had a good response because Brian wanted to put it in and so he did a lot of outreach. And
I'm just wondering, are we still doing outreach? >> He is, but um people don't usually purchase a subscription until their boat is in the water is the way you put it to me. That's we're kind of in the middle of that phase. >> Oh, a lot this week. >> Yeah.
>> Warm weather, the boat's going. On the front side, we what we did was we looked at um the Harbor launch business plan that was created in 2024.
And it broke down, staff, labor, offseason, service, storage, inservice season, and all of that. And it essentially estimated that the total annual expenses was 39,821.
And that also factored in a capital replacement fund. Um, which was8 $8,400 a year for 15 years to cover the original 125 spent on purchasing the boats plus $3,000 a year
for engine transmission replacement. Um, and then the revenue estimate at that time was 40,250. Thus, the net profit loss on the business plan should be around $429. That would cover all your expenses plus
your repayment of the original purchase. On the right side, you have actual calendar year results of expenses and revenue. Um, so when you take those into account, uh, we're
actually paying we're bringing in much more than it's than the business plan is hoping for, which does we're paying down the original 125 faster than the the estimate. Reason why I asked
about the insurance a few minutes ago because we didn't include that here. I continue to wonder if that should have been but it's side issue. >> So when we look at this original big
business plan they had the 8,400 every to the boats and we had 3,000 accumul. Mhm. >> Are we separately accounting for that or
are we putting all of the excess against the capital? >> I've been putting all the excess towards capital. >> Okay. I don't know if it matters. It's six and one half dozen of the other, but it it just means that when an engine or
transmission needs to be replaced, there's not going to be a kitty there that's set aside for it. Well, instead there'll be less due won the votes. >> Yeah. So just just for clarification, Peter and I worked on the initial business plan. The initial business plan
was based only on the subscription, so to speak, people. It was not including the harbor boat tours. Okay, it looks like we are now including them to kind of cover our costs. But I did
want to make it clear that our initial business plan said that the tours we would consider approving at a later date, but it did not figure into the financials. I just wanted to clarify that. >> Thank you. >> I think it's reasonable.
>> Oh, I think it's reasonable, but the the reason I'm bringing it up is because, you know, when you see your subscriptions going down, >> right? >> Right. It's something to pay attention to when we have very strict criteria in the business plan for re if we reach a
certain threshold shut off. >> Yeah. >> Is is that the discipline still in place? >> Sorry. >> Is that discipline still in place? >> That's why I'm bringing it up because we have a new town administrator who wasn't here when we created the business plan.
I made sure he had a copy of the the original business plan and the agreement on it. It was 10% loss over three years. Peter, I can get exactly what >> 10 was the place. Good. Um, I have one other question that is, is $18 per hour
a fully loaded cost of the employee. They're all season. >> I think there's a if I see it means that the full cost would be it's probably gone up uh since I was down in 2024. I'm
sure that rate has increased. I'm not sure what the current >> is the back the actual >> No, it would just be the hourly rate salary, but I think maybe more than 18 now. Not >> but the the
column on the right shows the actual which would be fully loaded. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Fully loaded meaning like includes all expenses for these employees. >> Yes. >> This just includes the salaries the other one doesn't
>> just the hourly rate >> right. >> So so >> so can we adjust it to be fully loaded? So the car rate >> it is the current rate is >> so if you took 28,155
roughly we multiplied it times 6 call 7% for social security and Medicare. >> No we only do 1.45%. >> Okay. >> So that's the only difference. Okay. I want pretty close
selfinsure. >> Are we worried about the trend and repres? Well, I I think that's why I included the Harvard tours promo plan because what I was told before we weren't really promoting it because
>> what you have to watch with that Harvard tours plan is that, you know, this is a launch service where subscribers go out to their boats. If they're going to wait a half hour for the harbor tour to come back in, they're not going to.
So you you can take advantage of things in the middle of the day, but and there are two launches. So maybe we'll do something there, but you have to be careful. It is a launch that we launch private business didn't want to
have any restrictions around. We're losing money, right? So we got to keep it away. >> Yeah. >> Are are we revising our subscription rate?
Do you have some thoughts on that? Are the fee for subscription? >> Yes. Uh we we did intend to look at all Harbor fees this year, this summer. The
way that you the schedule for this for the fees for the harbor is that you introduce or introduce that process now so that you can make the change in the fall and they go into place. No, >> it won't happen this
be like It's odd because it'll it'll it could go into play halfway through the fiscal year. However, the way that we do accounting on Harbor, we do by the calendar year. So, not this year, but next year. If
that changes, we're asking very simple answer. >> I know it's a >> Yes, we give you a complicated answer. So, as part of giving us the quarterly reports that you give us,
>> can you give us an update on the launch service at the same time? >> Okay, great. >> Yeah. >> Well, by June 30th, >> well, I'm saying first
on our calendar. Well, I'm taking all the action and the expenses are essentially in the summer, >> right? And she and we are next we got a quarterly report for April June which should have a good indication of
what the revenues should be. But I was thinking I was thinking about the expense that's why we have different answers. I was thinking September 30 will be really telling my >> Yeah. Right.
But if if we're still at 44, we know we're in trouble. >> Will be short. We need to find this. Sounds like a 10-hour day. >> Yeah. Quarter, 13 weeks. >> He's divided this season in two parts.
And it's 10 in the morning till certain time before the season really gets going. Then it's 10 at 9. There's the season has got then September comes along and it short again. Okay.
Next was to revisit the 25-y year capital plan. >> All right. Um, I don't think we received anything, did we? >> What I'm handing out to you is a work in progress.
>> Okay. Um we we've been looking at the capital plan and you know we especially with some of the discussion that we've had is you know this was this project on the capital FL or it wasn't right
>> but when I go through record of the town hall looking back to 2019 a lot of that a lot of those projects are so to me I feel like there's kind of like a disconnect of you like these the capital.
So we talked about buying the layers. This is what this what you're looking at here is first page is basically the most recent capital plan. Uh Chuck and they uh did
some adjustments on the dollars. based on inflation. And this is just your list. Uh like you'll see that first one is fleet. You know, we're going to we we're going to have a separate kind of fleet schedule that'll feed into this. >> Okay.
>> Um with total cost. Your next page starts to break that out into years. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Yep. >> But it's still separated by category.
I think the next page is really what we want to be looking at, which is more of a chronological order. You know, we're looking at how these items kind of feed into our five year plus look.
Um, >> yeah, because I mean, one of the things we were looking at was the cost of bonding and all of that and what the impact would be. >> Yes. So that >> that's the next page. >> That's the next page which I think >> this to me is kind of a
>> you know you take those different category >> capital items summarize them into this top half and this gives you your debt projections for those projects >> and the expected cost.
>> And then I just have placeholders in there. What I think next would be your baked out fleet schedule. And then after that, I was thinking, you know, some of these projects start with it just be good to kind of have a list
of that, too. So, it's it's a work in progress. >> It's almost like the link section. It should almost be that we come up with a certain dollar amount
year that's reasonable for fleet, >> right? Um because I think otherwise three cups a year's no big deal but truck but we have the fleet schedule
you know is per year kind of looks at the how old a piece of equipment is when you expect to replace it. So when you go back to you know the that third sheet the fleet line
would be the sum of for that given year rolled in and then each year kind of adjusted based on the fleet schedule. >> Great. Yeah. >> So my is we're going to go from about 6
million of death to about 80 million death right? Well, no, because we're we're not we're only going to enter into debt as we're rolling off debt. >> Yeah, but I'm not I'm not sure how fast we pay off five, eight, 10 million of
debt every year. >> I don't think so. >> The whole purpose of this is for us to look at the projects and figure out when we should schedule them, right? >> Not saying that we have to do it on this schedule. >> I'm not saying they have to do it. I'm
just saying if I total up the lines of additional new cash from bond that come out about 80 million >> that so that you're looking at it's from the last few years. >> Okay. >> So that needs to be updated but I put it
in here because I think it's what we're most familiar with looking at. So these front pages are going to kind of keyed into this and this is going to tell the story of the death service of the project that you're
getting into or have on the books currently. And then you can use this when you're contemplating a proposed project as how that's going to impact your debt schedule moving forward compared to the revenue.
The sheets before that are just kind of more of a It it don't it's government but it's not debt it's just cost and expenditure. >> Yeah. >> Because we we don't enter into debt to do fleet.
>> Never have. Except we never have. That's been one of our policies. That's >> No, we haven't entered into debt. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. So we've we've always I mean we've always had c and that's what we have to
keep remembering back we have certain categories of capital expenses which are kind of recurring and those we've never entered into debt for and I think we want to try to keep that half reserve the debt
for the larger items and then we also have to remember our policy the debt service won't exceed 10% of the operating. >> When you use the word debt, we mean long-term bonding. >> Yeah. I just want to be sure of the word
debt because we do shortterm too. >> We only do short-term borrowing >> anticipation anticipation. >> Yeah. And I think that our whole plan with the capital cash exclusion, which
we did for a number of years, is that was a segue into long-term bond. And when we started doing long-term bond, we would no longer do the capital cash exclusion, >> right? >> Which frees up that money for debt service payments,
>> right? >> But I think express about this. >> Yeah. And I think I think we need to look at the whole picture and say
what's our dollar ceiling for a project of what we want to fit in to the annual budget versus when do we want to do long-term bonds? So at 80 million we're going to add
three million a year of operating cost related to interest let's say something like that and it's which is >> well I think >> million budget not outrageous >> yeah except I think that you're you're
overstating things a lot gar because for instance in 2032 the school debt comes down that's now 2 million a year. Um, so a chunk of that comes off. Of course, we're going to have new school debt.
>> Um, >> but my understanding is I'm talking to the school district is the goal on the new school debt is to do shortterm interest only during construction. And I
believe the option that the school committee voted for was a two-phaseed approach and would spread construction over four years. So that certainly >> two phase.
So what the the most recent plan that they're looking at would be in the location of the existing school. So they would have a phase of tearing down part of the school,
building a new wing, then moving the people to the new wing, >> tearing down the old thing >> and and moving, you know, so so it would be two phases which would spread out the cost over a longer period of
time which would certainly help on the tax. I believe schools but we're not so that I start to say something which I think is really important which is what is the thresh for depth, right? I think
another criteria there should be how long we think that object's going to last, right? >> So, for example, and I'm just thinking about like Chuck says, I need a new loader, which isund $250,000,
but he may change his mind in two years and say, you know, we've used this thing. It's we're going to sell it, and I don't think we want to be buying and selling capital items that are on long-term debt. Well, we've never that's why we've never done debt for fleet. >> Which is why I think we just want to
reemphasize that there needs to be a certain threshold and then whatever we're putting onto the debt schedule should be longterm, >> right? >> Relative long term, >> right? Not cash. Yeah. >> Not things that are coming and going. I
think that what we did in the 27 budget is we said okay for dredging assume a 10-year loan because we're going to dredge every 10 years whereas for the other things I think we assume
>> 30 I think it was 30 right 20 >> right >> 20 sorry more for a vehicle the what would you expect for a moving item lot for vehicle term. >> I think that's up to the different I
mean police are three years a DPW 10 years 12 years >> if we're not bonding them then we don't care >> as far as >> as far as which is unlikely we bonded
>> right >> I think we have to find a way and and I think that until tap Street. Did we bond for Pleasant Street? >> No. >> So until
>> until Street, we haven't done bonding for water and sewer infrastructure. We did for the sewer treatment plant. >> We bonded 1.6. for
>> No, that wasn't the part of the $7.5 million. >> No, no, that was separate. The 7.5 was for the sewer treatment. >> So, we we had this pretty plan out. It's how we purchased that schedule. Remember the fire that happened down on
University Lane? that created like political uproar and we were going to shift all of the what's the utility workaround to appease people and that was going to really disrupt part of that plan. So I I think that's one of the
things that's concerning me is the fact that we did a bond for Cap Street >> whereas the 30-year bond >> 200 >> Well, we used reserves >> and we've used the reserves >> PAS is 30, isn't it? And then the other
is a 20 and then dredging is 10. >> So when I did all my projection I did >> 20 for everything and then 10 for dredging. >> 20 the FRF is 20 fast schools last more than 20 years.
>> I think school goes out 30. >> Okay. Yeah. We hope for a 50 year life on a building. That's kind of the target. >> Yeah. And historically looking at the old debt service, um it looks like the town's policy was to keep it at 20 if we could um instead of 30 because you just
save all that interest. >> So >> So these years that are in this go >> schedule need to be able to change. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. on the on the spreadsheets it goes out
to 2040 something 2050 but >> it would be one point if I put it all on here for you. I just put it out, you know, 10 years for the print out, but we do have it,
you know, on the right computer goes further out. >> I mean, is this tied into the operating budget forecast? >> No, not yet. Uh that's a separate worksheet that Andrew's been working on, but you can see kind of how this can
branch into and feed into these other items just like it would help with some of this some capital expend like yeah we're going to put a new senior center and cost more electricity is going to cost maintenance cost this thing. You can see the cex. You can see the impact.
>> I would especially >> it get it does get it gets very >> when you start putting operating expenses it really can it can really expand but I do think that
it's kind of natural to um separate bonded capital from nonbonded annual capital. You know, like that's kind of the next layer. When you start getting in operation, it's really kind of expands.
>> Yeah. The only thing you have these big projects are going to actually really budget that >> maybe we principal 10 20 years. It's double or half. Maybe
we can come up with some type of percentage factor or something. Yeah. To make it simple. I don't like that. Whatever that whatever the capital cost for the project if it's a building
obviously we make some type assumption as to a percentage that would increase the operating >> and not try to not try to fine-tune it but just >> I I I struggle keeping it to capital
myself even >> you know the like the you know is a feasibility study capital I But we should be including it because it's kind of step one of a future capital project. >> At least one that's capital.
>> Right. >> There you go. >> Well, yes. And I think that somehow we have to have the annual non-bunded bonded capital budget
to feed in the feasible feasibility studies to it so that we're always paying for cash for the feasibility studies and not bonding. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. And somehow
we have to figure out bid bond was like a school 30 year or 50 year school and we did a few best study architectural stuff. I I just think for the smaller amounts we're spending, we should be trying to spend it from paper dollars instead of
>> Yeah. I mean, from a financial point of view, if you had a column here that was said, what are we doing on engineering pre-expense and design stuff is not capital. Then we kind of know what things have started and things have not. But I agree with you, it gets covered on
an annual basis. It's not shouldn't be bonding for studies and things like that. It's going to get too complicated >> too offensive. >> Yes. >> Does this put a roll off of the hiring bar? It I'm a little overwhelmed by all
this at the moment. But is this integrated? If I look when I go home and I look at this more closely, does it show the rolling wall? >> No. No. This isn't >> Yes. Yes. Look at this page.
>> Yes, >> it's there's an attempt on the bottom. >> Okay. >> Under the revenue section, it says retired debt payments reallocated town, retired debt payments reallocated school, retirey liabilities fully funded
and reallocated in this one. I'm looking at. >> And so that's the attempt to to show the decrease in existing bonds to offset the cost of the new
>> It's it's an awfully low number. >> This has to be updated. >> Okay. I mean 40,000 in 28. >> What are you looking at? >> Well, reallocated debt or retirement. No, it's much higher than that.
>> Maybe >> for Oh, for the town it was $40,000. >> Yeah. I mean, that doesn't seem like you must be doing more amortization than $40,000. >> Yeah. I don't know. I I don't know how I >> Well, that's why I asked the numbers and
thought they low. >> Yes. >> But we haven't had much We don't have much existing debt outstanding. So, >> so this may be >> the retirement >> may be very light. >> But if you look even out in 31 I frankly
$160,000 it's the amortization must be more than that. That can't be right. I don't think >> 1 2 3 4 160 is for the town. 420 is for the school. Yeah, but we're going to
have, you know, we got to have what 30 $40 million bond of debt outstanding. The the annotations got to be if you're using a, you know, constant mortgage constant at a, you know, 2% 3%
>> the actual debt schedules. >> That's good. But that that can't be right. That can't be the actual This is This is This was built by Greg in 25. >> Okay. >> You know,
>> yeah, >> this sheet, but I put it here to fine. Yeah. >> Fall of 24. >> Yeah. >> Right. Fall of 24 was when we talked about this, >> yeah. So this will so the idea is that
you know you're looking at your capital plan and then the next page you're kind of rolling into the debt schedule for I was trying to get out the timing issue at least understanding that that number that point out I think is critical to
that then opens the door to take on sure more depth right well and it's it's consistent with the numbers in the schedule in the book, >> but this
>> doesn't look right. >> Well, it is. >> Well, sometimes. >> No, no, no. We have some old general bonds in like 2010. >> Yeah. >> Well, we we Yeah. Our total debt payment was
in 26 was a million something under two million. So you're not getting principal. >> Well principal. >> Okay. But I I imagine a very large part of that million or two was principal because these are old bonds. They've been hanging around for a long time and
you know they don't they don't advertise that way. It's um it's a constant for communities. Yeah. So on the amount outstanding debt. >> Yeah. >> Fiscal year 27. >> No, that's the school. The town
total outstanding debt was 5.5 million. >> Right. Right. >> And in fiscal year 28 4.7. >> Okay. So, the debt service on that has got to be $500, $600,000, I think.
>> But we're putting in new debt. >> Fine. All right. >> Principal repayment portion. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you have anything on this, Andrew? >> Is this all clear? I know it's right. Yeah. I I'm just looking at like the
total >> Yeah. >> um debt service of principal plus interest. So FY27 we bled at $89,000. FY28 we're going to owe $799. So that's only $10,000 decrease. Um
and it's about $10,000 going forward until FY32 that's $121,000 less. Then FY33 is $100,000 less. And then FY34 it's $464,000 less. >> So it's not a constant principle payment
every year, but each bond is that way. But if you layer all these bonds with different timing, >> right? Then you get like big one rolling off, >> right? >> Right. Step cleaning then it's good. >> Yeah. Four or five different issues
outstanding. >> So we're going to be use taking on new debt as old debt is retired. We need to appeal that those numbers very well, >> right? We had um
>> we have on page 71 of our budget book. >> Yep. >> We have four outstanding debt. one from 2011, one from 2014,
one from 2017 which was SRF, and one from 2018. >> Okay. And the total principal payment for fiscal year 27 was 646,000
and the interest was 155,000. So the I think at least for the ones that were SRF those are probably sewer probably a lot of these are sewer which I think is 75% enterprise one not
also explain why it's not a huge >> but it's in debt service for this one is Pine Street so it's all water only 1.4 We'll figure >> it out logically, right?
>> She certainly can give us all of the existing bonds and what the principal interest pay for each year, right? >> Oh, that might that might even be a page. >> Yes. >> Yeah. the pipes bond is that you know the
money we're saving every year from repairing those leaks is probably more than what we're paying on the interest of the bond. So it's defin worth those ones we have to target that kind of money. So,
okay, we'll talk about what we're going to read this this when we get some >> Are there any copy this electronically at some point? >> I know you call it. >> I don't mind. It's just that this is
uh you know these these are a SharePoint spreadsheet with helpful you know different tabs. >> Yep. uh the you know that other one that that has the b the debt service on it is a is a separate spreadsheet like I couldn't
figure out a way to I actually have to print these separate pieces and put them together so I'm happy to send you all of it it's just not going to look like this it's going to be kind of different documents but I appreciate this you know this is very focused our attention I
think the other thing really good too >> is I mean this high altitude look of kind of all the stuff is very >> well it tells me all the capital projects that are including place I've never known you know honestly all that
Chuck B Andrea already had in a spreadsheet they updated the numbers to FY26 and then it was just kind of moving things around >> and some of that stuff went back to 2019
master plan, >> right? >> Well, I mean, it gives us a context to think about the next 20 years. You know, build this is this is a working long-term work plan. Well, I just think it's useful prioritizing projects, it's
financial, not to fit the pieces in. So, it's not >> Yeah, >> because we have a lot to do, but whether it occurs this year or next year for some of them like now. Okay.
Update from town administrator or finance director. Is there any additional updates you need to give us? Yes, Andrew. And one update. Um we're getting ready to roll over the band that is outstanding. So if you remember last year we issued a $4.1 million ban for
the water the water project. So we're paying down that 271 that we just approved or you know pay the interest. We're rolling that over and we were actually talking about like cash flow the day. Chuck Jen um being Tony and I um we're looking at okay well the timing
of the projects. We're actually thinking of doing a ban for from June to December just to roll that water and then see where we're at cash flow wise and then issue one in December. And that way we'll have numbers for the budget um
instead of for June. Um so we'll get on a on a schedule instead of having a you know needing money in December and having another ban and then having to do it again in June. We just rather do it all at once. So that's that's our plan. What's the rate on the band right now?
>> Little 4.2 or something like that. >> Yeah. >> And just uh I also asked department heads to take a look at the fe the fee schedule for each department. Our hope
was to present some proposed fee changes to the select board in next month and then allow for that to kind of be a uh posted on the website public comment period and
try to get them installed early in the new fiscal year, you know, July, >> right? >> Um so that's kind of working on that too right now. >> Yeah. I one of the things to keep in mind is the fact that we increased the
CBA fees to a thousand an application, >> right? >> Not have any push back. So it would make sense that the other >> the other land use department should be at least on the same
>> um you know just so much to build >> minutes >> building permit uh fees have already installed or not? >> Yeah, they've not been installed yet.
That'll be part of this process. Uh we've already done the homework on bags and building permits. Great. Did people have a chance to look at minutes from April 16th?
I have maybe a silly question on the first set of it speaks about the amount of excess revenue we had and and the under expensive equal free cash.
Right. Right. But they had the numbers did on the minutes I need to get in print copies that we need. You look at the the first set of minutes I there.
>> What do you mean first set of April 16? >> I have a question about how numbers worked out. That's >> I see. There was nothing about text old text or fine but there was a report on it that
of I guess it probably was projected uh excess revenue and projected expense and then gave a numbers which was not the sum of those >> right because I bet I guess another
factor figuring We were going to pull out a free cash probably. >> Well, that and I think when we're going over that, I believe we were going over the quarter three report. >> Yes. >> And so then my estimate for free cash would include the rest of the fiscal year.
>> So that would match what quarter three revenue and expenses were on the two. >> I don't have it up here. >> Okay. >> I should have printed a copy for this discussion. >> What? You want to defer approval? We
>> I'd like to approve the second set and >> the second set. >> Well, there were two sets. 27 >> 27th were not shooted. >> They were just I read them. They were >> from the 27th. >> The 23rd, April 23rd, the joint meeting
with planning board. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I was reading up here a minute. >> Well, that's because I plan to do something for the 27th, which I didn't do. I see. >> Okay. So, April 23rd, which is the >> fine meeting. >> I just had a question on the first step,
which was >> I'd like to >> Okay, let's wait on the 17th. >> No problem. >> Clarification. Um, the minutes from the April 23rd joint meeting, I asked for some revisions to that. So, you don't
have the latest copy. >> That's a proposal. So, we're not going to approve any minutes tonight. >> Okay. Um, so I wanted to talk about the schedule.
>> So, I think based on tonight's conversation, we need to meet on July 9th, >> but not in June. Unless we want to be. >> Okay. >> July 9th. Okay. So, we'll be on July 9th
in order to do the year end transfers and you won't have will you have the fourth quarter report by then? >> No. Okay. If if the list we've been given tonight, Andrea, you give you gave us changes
dramatically between now and the 9th, you should probably hear about it. >> Okay. >> So we don't come on the 9th with four days to approve and you know suddenly this list is really different. >> No, I plan to send it out before.
>> That's why I was asking about June. >> Right. Well, last year we met in June and we thought we had done the year end stuff. And then things changed. So we had to call a meeting on short notice to get in
before the 15. So things are going to change with the final I think there was an issue with the final payroll. Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So I'd rather wait till she's closed out the year instead of thinking we've done
it when we haven't. draw brought a bunch of volunteers together for Robert's thing. That's what we do. So, no meeting blind guy.
Anything else that you're asking me? I'm trying to figure out my schedule during the summer. That's why I'm asking. >> So, I think that do we want to start working on this capital over the summer? >> I think so. >> Okay.
Trying to find my calendar. Um, so do we want to we're meeting on July 9th. Do we want to meet in August or doesn't like to meet in August? >> Later in August. Yeah. I was saying later in August of
July, beginning of August kind of time. >> Yeah. What do you think about later in August? >> Okay. Like 20th. How about the 27th? >> Yes. >> Does that work for people?
It's kind of the end of the summer. I think school's back in session. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But we'll go over the final year end the final fourth quarter year end report. And >> I can send it, but I won't be around
that week. >> Oh, should we do it the 20th? We'll do it this morning. >> Would anyone be open to like birthdays and
>> you want Wednesdays rather than >> we are Thursdays? >> We had been Wednesday. >> No, we switched from Wednesday to Thursday. >> So, I'm thinking Thursday in my brain. Okay. >> Is Thursday good with people? Mine may I
may have a problem with July 9th. I have I know I have a problem July. >> Okay. >> But if you can >> Yeah, I can I I can do earlier. >> Oh, okay. Can people do July 8th, the Wednesday?
July 8th. Are we good? >> August 20th. >> Good. >> Okay. Um, when? In September? >> 17th. Yeah,
>> September 17th will be the third Thursday of the month. I think we were on third Thursdays. I don't know what we were on. Might have been on fourth Thursdays, but does the 17th work?
I won't be here the 24th. 17th. I think I'm leaving on the 23rd. Yeah. So, 17th. So, we're I'm sorry. We're now on September 7. >> September 17th. >> Thank you. >> September.
>> Yeah. September 17. >> As we get as we get into September, we're going to be starting to focus on November special town meeting. >> Okay. >> So, we start to pick up again September,
October. So I will see if there's any financial articles. Okay. Is is there if you're not going to read till July 8th and having to prove the April minutes,
it's it just feels unfortunate that that if somebody else wanted to follow what you're doing that that it would be to enact.
>> Well, I was always told Um I think that meeting was you know was really a joint prep for the town meeting. So what we discussed there kind of Oh no we had one on the 16th. Could you please not going to just
>> Yeah. Let's Let's see if we can figure out this numbers thing. We'll see what we can do. Like the 23rd doesn't worry me so much because I'm sure that the select board is going to approve those. Yeah, it's it's just and
it was it's pretty much over by events anyway that we were discussing different for the occurrence. It's not that's a big deal after there's no way can be approved via electronic means. I can buy a house on
my phone on my phone. Essentially doesn't let you. It gives you the option of allowing a chairperson to approve minutes without a vote. You can't flip back and forth. You know,
if your standard practice is a committee meeting, then you have you have to stick with that. But you do, but it also says I think it's I want to say it's 60 days or
within three meetings later, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Pretty good. It's just >> such a large gap between meetings, >> right? Yeah, we like that. We're on a summer
schedule. When I was first invited to finance committee, they said this is a good committee for sers. >> Any other anything else anybody would like to ask? The only thing I would bring is maybe our next meeting if we
talk a little bit about the potential boards for this project. There was a pretty good presentation three nights ago and that's absolutely enough for finding the Filipino vac. I'm thinking we could wait and do that
in September. for September because it's going to be long process meeting with other I mean do we want them to meet with the finance committee I'm sure they'd be happy to
the the PowerPoints on the website. If you weren't able to watch the meeting, you go on to the website and take a look at the PowerPoint they provided. You also watch the video. Um
>> I mean we could ask come June August 20th. Sure. Okay. No, we could ask to come bring a proform of their cost estimates and their revenues rents that they're going to be directing.
That would be that would be a popular meeting. >> I'm sure they uh >> might be a little premature, >> might be a little early question asked about the number of anticipated residents on site and
effective. I would have done I think that they're I I get the sense that they're they're trying to meet with various boards to kind of see when they need additional finetuning.
>> Yeah. >> Hard to do the financial impact before you finetune it. >> If there's a non quorum amount of you that want to meet with them, you know, instead of waiting until then, I'm sure
they'll do that, too. I expect that they'll be meeting with the affordable housing trust that was on they were going to make a donation. >> Yeah. So I don't know. Okay. >> So move we journ.
>> John seconds. All in favor. Thank you. um who was hoging the screen >> and I was looking at it participant amount never went above 30 so it would have been you >> I wasn't >> 1623
>> I wasn't in no 1623 wasn't in >> was Yes. These are the minutes from a new phone because we're talking about revenue. my phone.
>> And then we have >> Yes. Yes. >> Am I crazy to think those numbers would add up to each other? >> I'm sorry. >> I first got it. I somehow got it on the camera and for the life of me I couldn't