7:01 p.m. and I will call the finance committee meeting to order on Thursday, January 15th. This is a hybrid meeting and it is being recorded. And Sarah Melish, the chair with me in the room from the finance committee are Gar
Morris, John Croft, Andy Oldman, and Mory Great. Nobody from the finance committee. Um, um, also in the room are Annne Harrison from the select board, um, Tony Barleta,
the town admin, town administrator, Andrea Mayville, the the finance director, um, Christine, the tally clerk, um, police chief, uh, Fitzgerald, and, Um Senate
um Michael McClo. Okay. Um with that we will start with the police department operations and capital budget and I believe that chief you sent
us an overview. If you could just go through that that would be helpful. again. Thanks for having us in our first year to get it out of the way. Um, you did get my memo. So, just the
time we actually get through the whole thing. We had a chance to review the questions. Um, but the overall theme of things staffing in FY27 and looking forward to
>> Yeah. So the highlights were um impact of training requirements and I lost two fulltime. >> Yeah. So so currently we're down two full-time people. We're trying to use it to hire. You've gone through a second
round of interviews uh the other day. But uh potentially we may have to go back out, but we haven't decided yet, you know, to see if we get some more candidates. But um as of right now they're down three people not
have you guys thought about getting rid of the civil civil service we are >> Oh since uh 2007 good you know in in the past it's made it easier to hire but in today's climate we
find that uh one of those things is people not necessarily going into public safety profession. Uh it's tough tough to recruit with the loss with with the post commission the
loss of the reserves. Um it is uh tough to homegrow those people and every department is pulling from the same pool. As a matter of fact lost their good ages without uh hiring a collateral transfer. I think to look at the 10 10
They're down 10 compos. >> I mean, it seems like a good job. The cand cash cap is good and you get a pension. >> Uh, but if you if you look, we're in the process of doing some comparables right now, but if you look at our our base pay, it's considerably low compared to
other communities. So, that's one of the things that people are looking at, not, you know, wanting to come over here. Plus, the, you know, the long-term opportunities. We're a small department and this younger generation wants, you know, the action
in the >> So we in the reserve, we do have reserve officers. Uh when police reform went through a few like >> how many years ago was that? >> 2020.
>> Uh they require reserve officers to be fully trained like a full-time police officer. So once they get that full training now they're like they're like a free agent and um uh you know other departments are
grabbing them if you don't have an open spot >> and our current reserve offices are retirees who are limited by their pensions hours number of hours they can work. So >> now when we
eliminated the went to the regional dispatch, we did add some police officers to the staff and we also were dealing with the town's concern regarding coverage of the lobby. And I'm
wondering is what is that utilization? Is that an opportunity while we're short staffed to cut back on that off hours to avoid some overtime? >> That's what we're currently doing. >> Okay. Okay. >> Most of the time in on the day chef
lobby is not set. >> Okay. >> Has not been st >> Okay. Uh Tony, have any towns outsourced their public safety? I'm not suggesting
it, but I'm just curious. Are you aware of any instances where that has been? >> Not that I know of. >> Not that I know of. Um >> maybe in the western part of the state, they call the state police and that's the midnight. Not >> Yeah, I was I was going to say it's more
like mutual aid supplementing. um you know or uh you know our department is part of NEMLEC uh which is you know more specialized services but do provide assistance to us on you know
>> fourth of July >> fourth of July like heavy heavy days that we need more staff we're able to utilize that program um >> if we were to merge with another town's police and again please I don't think
I'm thinking about doing this, but but uh if would we be more competitive in the marketplace if instead of having x number of employees, we had 1.5 or two times x number of employees and and uh
more opportunity for advancement and and that sort of thing. >> Yeah, it's hard to say. I I you'd have to it would be dependent on again it comes down to really what that base pay >> means you know if you did something like
that what it would be a make you able to do um but I think our neighboring towns are all you know >> kind of dealing with the same >> same problem >> same issue across the board >> there's just not a lot there's not a a
large pool of applicants out there. So, you're really you're really um either running the risk of bringing someone in who doesn't have an academy, paying to send them to an academy, plus paying to backfill that
shift while they're at the academy, uh and then when they come out, uh hopefully they stay with your department for a number of years. Uh but it's oftentimes three years, you know, down the road,
they're they're shopping, you know, and looking at other communities that are just able to pay, >> you know, larger communities that have a commercial base that have a split tax rate or or not. Um >> they're able to pay significantly
higher. when I worked I back when I was actually collecting a regular paycheck um I worked for a great big company and we had trouble finding new employees and we were were in downtown Boston. We went to
the Boston schools and tried to interest 8th, 9inth, and tth graders and we would run uh you know, Coke and donuts or whatever it was and said,
"Hey, you know, if you if you don't have to be indentured, but but uh you want to sign up with us, we'll we'll help train you and help you help you get into college or whatever. ever it might be. Um it does seem as though with the with
the challenge that we're confronting in terms of staffing um whether we do it alone or whether we do it with some other towns or whatever you know uh innovative uh personnel
engagement stuff might be called for. Um just a just a thought. So I'm done. >> Sorry. >> I can speak to that quickly. I know we have gone to the local police academy. Sometimes they self-sponsor people who are paying their own way to get through that. Yeah. >> We've advertised there. We have gone to
local college fairs and whatnot and they caught and we've given a lot of brochures there. So, we've we've done our best to do exactly that. >> Right. >> Right. >> Um >> I'm going to apologize. Um could you give me your name? >> Sergeant Lof with the uh with the police department. >> Thank you.
>> A lot of towns a lot of towns this how bad it's gotten. A lot of towns are now offering signing bonuses >> to people that uh laterally transfer really I guess it's for anyone but anyone >> it's it's mostly designed to incentivize
some lateral transfers >> and that's done outside of the union contract. >> I think that would have to be negotiated with the union. >> Oh, okay. And the the police contract is >> it's got another year
>> another fiscal year. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So we have best have to basically decide if we want to continue as we have and sort of beat the market increase in police pricing or have less police.
>> Um what I noticed well at least on my street we have a lot of construction so there's a lot of police details. I've seen the painting on the road. Um um so does that impact does that help us
retain people if we've got a lot of police details available? Do we have troubles filling them? Do we ever use onduty people to do the police details? >> Mostly offduty that fill them in. If we have trouble filling, we go outside to other
communities to bring offices in. >> Okay. So that really hasn't been an issue. It's just um making sure that we have enough staff to to maintain the min. I think >> you know
prospective candidates are looking at our union contract, looking at the base pay, looking at um if there are additional uh stipens, you know, for EMT certification, where are we with the
Quinn bill and as far as uh salary increase based on educational level, but they also look at detail rates too. Um detail rates, most detail rates are not a cost to the town. You know, of course,
town details are um so it can be a competitive element uh for a prospective candidate if we have a higher detail rates. >> So we package we set it though. It's in the contract. It's a contract negotiation
and >> currently our detail rate is lower than surrounding towns. by which she's surprising. Like what by what amount? What percent or >> think about $10 an hour? >> Seems like an easy one. So not a bad not
>> and we can't do that under the current contract. >> We would just we'd have to approach a union and open the contract early, but I I'm assuming the union would be open to that, receptive to that. Um,
>> do you >> It does. Yeah, we in in contracts that have negotiated in the past, we've uh separated the rates out for town rates, non-town rates. Uh, so we can
>> think about something like that, >> you know, so that our public projects aren't growing in price. Uh, you know, we're not hurting ourselves. But most of the details I imagine are utility. National grid pays those
>> and tree people. >> Treat where do we fall on the nontown detail relative to benchmarking to others? Are we really low? I mean could we raise that a big amount to leave the town >> in our contract? >> Yes.
>> So the uh private rate is 65, town rates 60. Okay. currently >> and that just went up >> and yeah, that just went up last contract >> the guys. >> So, I guess the question is if we raise the nontown rate, is there room to do that?
>> Yeah. >> I mean, obviously, >> well, that's kind of where I'm going, but you know, >> but I think the main factor is the base rate. our base rate or the patrolman base rate is fairly low compared to our surrounding right
>> communities. So we >> and that's why like uh Essex just hired two from Massport >> and one of them worked here for a short time which we thought we could get him back here >> and we went to Essex because they make more money in the base but
>> Essex didn't have any budget. Yeah. >> Security. >> So, uh, before we go too far down that road, you know, I don't I don't want to like that'll be a negotiation with the union.
Uh but certainly it's something that we've talked about and potentially approaching the union to open the contract early if we we may be going out for another round. If we're if we don't come up with good candidates through that, I think it's something
that we really should think about doing. But um the you know when that when the effect of that is is it in the current fiscal year or is it in the upcoming fiscal year and those changes we'd have to
figure out how we adjust either budget. >> Yeah. I think that I mean I I think the question is is is can you open the contract and not negotiate a new contract early but just make an adjustment for the last
year of the existing contract. >> Yes. >> Yep. Yeah. You can do that >> and but you know particularly as to detail rates but base pay is an issue too. >> Yeah. Um,
and I think the question is is what's the price tag attached to that and can we fit it into this upcoming budget? >> Well, at the moment we're we're paying a penalty through overtime, >> right?
>> So maybe it's relatively a point. >> Yeah. >> Um, on that note, the overtime I wasn't It's probably my poor memory. I I didn't remember the overtime being as much as it was in 2024. >> I just don't remember having this
discussion last year. >> Yeah, that's that's that's quite a chunk. >> We wrote it down to people for that. >> Yeah. So, yeah, but 2024 says the actual was 233,000
and 2025 239,000. So, comparable. But I think that I think one of the things they've done is I think they've moved some of that over time to fourth of July. >> Fourth of July. Yeah. Some of it's
fourth July, some of it's in in training because now the fourth July comes out of that. This year will be the first year we'll see that reflection on the 4th of July in the training with higher works. >> I don't understand that was not explain
that to me. We take the fourth July overtime and put it in a separate account over in parking. >> Thank you. >> So is that not reflected in? >> It's not reflected >> the number. Okay. What kind of number is that? >> Uh it doubles every year. I think this
year it's 25,000 for the >> Okay. >> Around that one. >> So do you think this budget is much closer than the last couple years to actual >> time?
I'm over. >> What What was the cause in 20125 of the large overtime? I can't remember. I know you've told us, but >> that was um >> training. Oh yeah, training. The unfunded training. >> Okay. >> With mandated by post.
>> Okay. >> We did have a officer out with a pregnancy and we had another one that was >> on leave. >> On leave. That's right. Okay. >> Um, this is unpopular, but um, what do you think the quality of our policing is?
>> I think it's top-notch. I think it's top-notch, and I think we got a pretty solid crew at at the moment. Um, and I think that moving forward, we have uh some real experience and uh, leadership that could maintain
the level of safety that the town sees. How do our metrics compare, maybe they don't, with other similar communities in terms of the >> Well, one thing I do know, I don't have those in front of me, but I do know that our mental health responses are have
increased over over the years. Steve is actually the uh in charge of our mental health and overdose recovery uh response team, so you could probably speak to more of that. Um, yeah. This last year, for whatever reason, our mental health and drugrelated calls have almost
doubled. They're the highest they've been since I took over the team like 15 years ago. >> Wow. >> And I I don't know if that has to do with the whole nationwide climate. There's a lot of things going on that's stressful for a lot of people. >> And I think that people who are already dealing with a pre-existing mental
health condition are overwhelmed by it. But I even in a small town like this that that the calls are pretty high. And to piggyback off what the chief said, um we have a smaller department, but a lot of our people are really willing and uh able to put on multiple hats and do
multiple things and juggle a lot of different tasks. So, I'm pretty proud that everyone's able to do that >> and and chief to the to the question of the quality of the um service being accredited, can you speak to that? Yeah.
So we are uh we've been reacredited uh once uh but first we got accredited then we got reacreditited. So that accreditation process is where we're dealing with today's best standards and
we have to show metrics every year year one year two year three of the accreditation process that we meet these metrics. So, um, that's a pretty high standard for a small agency and one of the biggest drawbacks is this building.
That's but we we managed to do it and when they come in and and evaluate us that most of the time they say that they're pretty impressed of how how we've handled uh the accreditation process. >> When you say this building, we don't have a lock up and >> well, we have a lock up, but it's not to
the we don't have an evidence room. We don't have an armory thing to have. We we've made a cell into an evidence room with limited funding. We've made the armory into a as an old archives room, a closet. So,
>> you're up you're up high tide also. >> We high tide. They're pumping out. So, so the accreditation keeps us at a at a at a high level standard and and the process of accreditation just just um is is tough and it's worked on every single
day. >> Hold on just a minute. Um Dean Nihadis is from the finance committee and he's on Zoom. Dean, you have a question. >> You're on mute. >> You're on mute. You're muted, Dean. >> Okay. Sorry. Uh it's been quite a day.
Anyway, um I was alarmed when I saw in the memo that and I just read it. Um but was there there's only two full-time police officers right now and everyone else is part-time. Is that what that memo said? Because I
was trying to figure break down the salary. You need like three three eight hour shifts a day for two people. 42 shifts a week. So, say 50 shifts a week. Um, how
much of those shifts do we need overtime for or are they do we have enough people to fill those in regular salary? I guess that's that's the question I had. >> Okay. I I think that, you know, the chief did say there's two full-time
police officers that left. So, we have two full-time openings. >> Okay. So, they left and these are the ones we trained because I remember Okay. >> Um, so, Chief, how many full-time police officers are there? >> Well,
>> and women, >> we should have 15 patrol, so we're down two. >> And then there's the chief and the lieutenant. So, 17 total. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's what I That makes more sense. So I I read it wrong that two
left and then we're replacing them. Okay. >> Thanks, Dean. >> Yeah. >> I guess I just have a question. I mean it um it's a staffing issue and I guess the question is how do you think this is going to play out over the like the next
three or four or five years? Because I'm not entirely sure it's a money thing. I mean people want to get trained and then they want to go on to maybe more exciting places. So Manchester's got to be faced with this challenge and and sometimes looking at what we think the
next five years is going to bring helps us figure out what to do now. And I'm curious if you have any >> Well, I think one of the things for our retention was the uh windbell put back into the contract. That was a huge thing. We lost I think it was like 11
people because to other communities because they we trained them, we hired them and then they went to >> like Beverly. A lot of them went to Beverly uh >> lost their you know because of that. So I honestly think that we're in a good
place with that. But if you raise the pay, that's or the base pay is probably what's going to retain these people because what I find is I'd hate to say the younger generation, they want to do their 40 hours and nothing else. >> You know,
>> y >> I would say the reverse of what you said is also can be true. You sometimes you have someone who's working in a big city, maybe has 10 years in and they want to slow down and a place like this is a lot more attractive. But the thing that I keep I think holds them back is the pay that they're making in a city
isn't quite, you know, what they make in a town. >> So if we can bridge that gap a little bit, maybe the reverse of what you said could also be true. >> Yep. So from like just stretching that forward instead of maybe trying to hire people right out of the academy very
early in their career who were looking for you know big city stuff >> we focus more on midcareer challenge with mid-career is that the expectation on pay may be higher >> correct
>> so you know I guess how does how does the pound structure itself to think about that model going forward You want to go over that staffing model? >> I I can. To your point, that's kind of where we started with this process. We put it out to people who were already academy trained and established
somewhere, try to get them to come to us. Um that would be a more seasoned person. Um rather than what we call home grower candidate from who needs all the experience. Um so back a few years ago when we realized we had kind of a staffing issue. Um I know everyone's
seen this. I think I have extra copies if anyone needs it. It really is just we we went over the numbers and said, "All right, what does it take to run a police department hour by hour and we figured out that really each officer can give you on a uh the schedule that we work
1941 hours. We then deducted a bunch of hours from that for vacation, for average sick time, for court time, training time, and then we looked at what an officer can really give you. We ended up with about 1,45 hours is what an officer can give you. And then we
looked at how much staffing we really can make happen with that number. And what we found out is to run a minimum amount of staff, two officers on the road, no lottery coverage at all, just the minimum contractual obligation to the town, uh, is 13 officers. And if I'm
not mistaken, that's what we're doing right now. >> That's what we're doing. >> And that's why the overtime's so high. If somebody's out sick or on vacation time is absolutely goes to overtime. There's no staff to prevent that. So, if we can get these two people hired, um, we'd be in a better place to be able to
have a little bit of coverage for those days. Um, and then this reflects what we call the gold standard. If we continue hiring, we get to get two more after that to be at a total of I think it's 17 >> 17 >> 17 patrol staff. At that point, you would really see a dip in the overtime
because we'd have a third person available um you know, work in patrol, but if someone were to call out or have a court date, we could fill it without overtime. So, I mean, those numbers don't lie. That's just what it takes. And uh the figures do go up and down
based on salary, but this will be the same 10 years from now. What does this budget envision for um the next year as far as filling just filling the two filling >> just getting us back to the 15 >> and we've been very creative with
scheduling and and working the schedule certain way to make it you know not have so many natural openings but um we are a small agency so we're doing the very best with with >> we're we're pulling uh union contracts from neighboring communities communities
that similar to ours, communities that are just nearby. Beverly and Glosser, obviously, we're going to be much lower than them because they have a much bigger budget. Um, but at the same time, you know, with the Quinn bill as an example, it'd be really hard for a city
like Glosser to do what we do with the Quinn bill. It'd be really expensive for them because of the number of officers that they have. Um, so we're looking at that. We're looking at um you know I know we've we've talked to a you've talked to a lot of your
colleagues in other departments. I've talked to a lot of police officers that I know that have recently moved to other positions. We've tried to ask you know what is it that what's the attraction there? And um some of it is some of it is uh am I
going to be just sitting in a patrol car, you know, or am I going to be doing specialized detective work or other types of uh services? But it really comes down to the base pay, um signing bonus,
education incentive, and then there is there's also kind of an element of does the community support police. That is kind of a a newer factor in the recent years since police reform and the
George Floyd days. That's kind of a been something that we've heard a little bit about too. >> And is the sense that Manchester residents support our police? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How just irrelevant, but how many of our
folks in policing live in town? One, >> three, >> three, >> three to three total. >> So suppose, again, irrelevant. Suppose we had housing that favored town
employees, whether they're school teacher, police officer, you know, whatever it would that help our staffing or not really. >> I I think it could, you know, there there it couldn't, it couldn't. It kind of depends on the candidate.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Do they want to live, >> you know, in Manchester school or whatever? >> Right. Right. So, it's possible, but certainly, um, I think it's difficult for most town
employees to be able to afford to live here. Um, and certainly, yeah, it's, you know, you're not, we're not going to we're not going to attract a a candidate from Western Mass or that lives down on the Cape. So, it could could could make a a
difference, but it's hard to say how much. >> Just a question of, you mentioned the Quinn bill a couple times. I've been on this committee long enough. We had the Quinn bill. We went off it. Is the Quinn bill one-sizefits-all or is it
negotiable with different uh compensation for different levels of education or is it really like one standard cookie cutter thing? Um >> well the the Quinn bill itself is a certain
level of education incentive and then other municipalities their union contract will be a percentage. So, we're full >> we're full coin >> full coin mill. >> Um, >> all for all.
>> Some towns will be at 75% or 80%. >> What does that translate financially? Are we paying for the education? Are people being paid more when they complete the education? Both
of those. One of those. >> The latter. >> The latter. Okay. So, a person pays for their own education, but they get paid more as an officer. >> Yeah. And in the union contract, it has to be a criminal justice degree. Can't be anymore.
>> Okay. >> And as a bachelor's, masters, >> associates, >> so if you if you have an associates, you get 15% uh bachelor's 10, bachelor's,
>> 20, and then masters 25. I just want to kind of go back to that staffing that you mentioned. Sorry about, you know, we're at 13 lay out the numbers. That's actually the right number, but when you consider, you know, all people's lives, you you need at
least a couple more people to kind of cover, you know, sick time, that kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> But then you said the the the ideal would be to add two more staff to carry 17. And so 15 is what is the 17 covering? The 15 isn't.
>> So the 17 the 15 is just going to get us um >> level >> pretty much level where we've been. The 17's going to add a little bit of a cushion. >> Yeah. >> And that way if someone is out, we have that additional person to help reduce the amount of overtime. >> Basically, you have three on a shift and
someone calls out sick, you don't back. >> You go to two. >> You go to you go to the minimum staffing two. >> No, it's down to I see. So, so even if you had 15 somebody's out, then you don't you don't have that full staff. >> Not always. >> Not always. Yeah, there are some
instances where we do have three on and that's why we got created with some schedules and put some splits to best utilize that and >> Okay, thanks. >> That's just more forward thinking for the future. I mean, if we really want to tackle the overtime problem, I think that's where we mathematically need to be.
>> It's a parallel to discussion to the fire department. Yeah, >> we keep having more people and we still for whatever reason. >> It's a challenge. >> Not to say it's the same. >> No, but it's
>> my last two cents into this is as Tony alluded to, I can uh we can put together some comps for different salaries in the area to give you an idea of where we stand. And then I also looked as far as the hiring issues that we're dealing with into an outside agency.
It's called Get Batched and they are an upfront cost, but they host exams. They create their own candidate pool and then I hate to say sell them to people, but they they hold all the cards and they um can try to set us up with somebody who is comparable.
>> So they're like a recruiter. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> So they collect a fee from >> They collect a fee. I think what I was quoted out a couple days ago is around $2,500. >> Yeah. >> Is that a person or >> I think that's um I think it goes by a
subscription and it may be a year access maybe even six months to the candidate pool and um we can then have access to all those candidates who have already been exam who may already have an academy and then start doing interviews from there. So that's another viable
option that I just discovered a few days ago. Do you have a sense of how like Hamilton and Wenham, other like communities like us are dealing with this or they in exactly the same boat doing exactly the same? >> I think they're back like Essex had
their positions over for a long time and they finally filled them. I know Hamilton they had a couple reserves that they just did away with the whole reserve program. So retire these would have been the hiring additional full staff with all stuff.
>> Any other questions? >> All set. Thanks. >> Okay. So now we have to look at the budget >> because the increases our own salaries. Yeah, just talked about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So,
>> the only thing in the salaries you'll see a change $11,000 each training. >> Yeah. That's because of some additional training that was required for this year will be. >> So, is every other year training or something? Well, it it's a onetime thing
that we do >> and the training line item is everyone's uh inservice training and potential uh new hire in service. So that 50 51740
no adjustment in salaries >> and then we have expenses. >> Um we did >> Yeah, that's uh put that up. I have a note here. We paid almost $1,000 in laser chockets because we were unable to get into the DVW
mechanic and you know just for routine breaks, oil changes and stuff like that. So it's been slammed up there and when we need things done he's been unavailable. So uh that was part of the increase for auto truck
like this. >> And Tony who controls his availability? >> Chuck. What do you mean? >> I mean, is he full time? >> Full time.
>> I think he's having a hard enough time keeping up with what they have going on. Not being able to >> handle anything else with being able one person. >> Well, it just seems a shame if the routine stuff isn't able to be handled
in house. He may be covering other higher dollar kinds of repairs on TPW stuff. So, it might be a good tradeoff, >> right? >> Yellow ones. >> Dudes was the other one that went up and subscription. I sent you them. Oh, yeah.
Yep. That's fine. >> Yeah. That's basically we have a new AI platform. Cool. >> Yeah, sounds good. >> Yeah, basically officers had that their phone. We got policies, procedures, all general laws. If they have a question
out in the street, they got a real time rate up there. Right up there. So, I thought that was a huge huge thing. Plus, town gets a decrease, I believe, in insurance, right? Like a 1% decrease. >> Yeah, the foyer thing sounded potentially useful, too. >> Yeah, >> maybe a streamlining kind of thing. And
that was the next thing. We're actually going to go live. It's live now, but we're going to go live on Monday when I can finally get it on the website. >> Oh, did you an hour ago? >> Perfect. So, we're live. >> So, does that effectively just change
the locks on the front door? >> Pretty much. >> Next window. >> Um, radio technician. Uh we since going to regional um they maintain all our pretty much all our equipment but our
our uh cruiser radios and our portable radios are still on us. We didn't have a line item this year and I had a couple of portable radios that are assigned to the individual offices break and we had to uh um spend 2500 bucks trying to fix
these these radios. So I put that back in. That's the reason for that. Have we looked at the expected life of the radios and put together about halfway through? >> Okay. >> The ones that we got a few years ago
like this life expecty about 10 years when I remember I think we're going to have those. Um Steve you want to talk about the training and the CPI. Uh yeah, so we now are lucky enough to have
we have two in-house uh trainers now. So we were able to develop them to be able to come instructors. So um our first aid and CPR that needs to be done to upkeep our uh first responder and and EMT requirements are now in-house, which is a great thing. But along with that, then
comes a little bit of an expense to to outfit them with the materials that they need. So, they're looking for a couple uh CPR mannequins and some other um you know, stuff like that just so you can get it up and running. I think over time we're going to get that money back just in the the uh expenses we're saving
having them in house. >> Then we can use that for like a community policing thing where we can hold uh CPR classes for the public. We might even be able to offer that to other police departments too. Have them come to us with child
>> by having it in house. That that also give you more flexibility with the training. So you can talk in someone to train. >> We can set the dates to when it best works with less overtime as well. >> And I did increase uniforms based on the
potential of two new hires. I think we were forget where we were last year, but I think we're pretty close if not over. I mean, maybe not. >> Yeah, you were. >> Yeah, we were over. Yeah. >> Considering a a regular uniform that we're wearing right now is probably, you
know, $100 for the pants and $100 for the shirt. >> You'd be so It's a It's a retire. I'm opening a uniform store. Sounds like a business opportunity. >> That's about it for expenses and
capital. You see me obviously replacement vehicle. >> What? Okay. So, now we get to vehicles. How many vehicles do we have and what's what's our current replacement? At one
point we were replacing police cruises every three years. What's our current replacement schedule? >> Um so I have we don't have an actual schedule. It's the oldest car that that goes. So the line car we have what four
five. So every five years I think the line car goes. I have a very long probably black and white anymore. >> Yeah, black and white. >> Black and black. >> Right. So, we have one, two, three,
four, five, six. Six line cars. So every six year the line tower would be uh turned off. >> But it did be every three. Yeah. But now we have the six. So what are you
going to >> six seems like a lot. How come we have so many? >> One's assigned to the >> one's assigned to the SRO and one's assigned to the uh uh detector. The SRO car won't be replaced for a long
time. There's only one single driver. >> Okay. >> I'm I don't know what is SRO. >> School resource officer. >> And then that cruiser is also set up for the uh comfort dog. >> Daisy. >> Daisy.
It's good. I like dogs. And what other than other vehicles do you have? >> So we have the two EVs. >> Okay. >> And the uh motorcycle which we still have
an ATV which we use on the beach and then we have we just took delivery of through the JAG grant of a UTV which is can be used year round. So we may make adjustments with the ATB and give that
uh use to the life guys next year on that. >> That's what they needed. >> Go ahead. Um, so if if you have two shifts full-time and six cars and two go to the
detectives. >> So is the intent with the four cars that you like can alternate a car over shift? >> That's what we do. >> I have here I can send it to you exactly what the car each car is assigned to do. >> No, no, I'm just phrasing it so that it
sounds more reasonable. Yeah. No, I get it. >> Okay. Thanks. Are the EVs part of the six or are they in an addition too? >> Are you using hybrid for the cruisers? >> Every car is hybrid.
>> Oh, they were all okay. What do you use the EVs for? >> My car and >> Okay, fine. And this our last year of taser. >> Last year of taser. Yeah.
>> And then when do we have to start again? >> Oh, it's in the 10 year capital plan, but it's on my spreadsheet, though. It's probably 10 years from now. >> Okay. Okay. >> Nine to 10 years from now.
>> Now, if the the ATV moves to the lifeguards, >> well, we'll still have control of it, but we're going to allow them to use it at the beach. >> So, will part of that cost go to parks and wreck? I think we're still kind of working on
the DR, you know, very limited discussion of federal line. >> Okay. >> Since we got the the grant for the UTV, which is the utility vehicle that's can use for all weather, then that's what we decided to look into.
>> Okay. Because I noticed that the ATV replacement is here for 23rd and by then maybe expensive. I probably won't need that. >> Okay. Okay.
>> This is a broader observation. Um it's a lot of vehicles. I understand why you need them, but from a maintenance point of view, that that's probably something to think about townwide. I mean if we've got essentially 10 11 vehicles effectively
in as department you know DPW's got a lot's got a lot you know maintenance is one maintenance person trying to manage all that is just a broader topic for discussion. >> Does fire have a maintenance person? >> No
>> they used to one point >> I don't think they do. Do you know? >> No, I don't think they do. >> They used >> Yeah, they used to >> We have a fleet manager. He doesn't do like what changes. >> Is he a police officer? >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> What's a fleet man? >> Just manages the vehicles, manages the uh know sending them out to be repaired. >> Okay. making sure the tires are uh radios are working, electronics are working, all that. I mean, he he has
done a lot of electronical stuff, but >> um Dean, did you have a question? >> Yeah. Um kind of related to the >> Oops. >> You went on mute. We can't hear you.
>> Yeah. I'm sorry. Um I didn't have time to come because the CPC meeting ended quick, but uh okay. Um for the maintenance of the vehicles, my biggest concern is that they get flooded with salt water. And I'm wondering if
it's a facilities issue or police, but maybe we should consider something like Bion's temporary shelter up by the lawn of the Masonic Hall where the there's high ground just to have a place to put cars in case of a you know, we we're due
for a flood tide, you know. So, I just think it's a time bomb. >> Well, we do if we get a large storm, we move all the vehicles up to the DPW. >> Oh. Does that work operationally for you though or do you need to know if >> it's a snowstorm? Not so much, but if
it's because they're in and out of there, but if it's a like a rainstorm or a hurricane or something like that, then yeah, it would be fine. >> Thank you. >> I suppose you could also move them on the street in front of >> Yeah, we do that, too. That's what we do. If we expect the park to get
flooded, we pull up on the front. >> Yeah. Um, any other questions on the police salaries? Do I have a motion to approve the police
salaries for the fiscal year 27 budget in the amount of 2,19,655? >> So moved. Second, any discussion. >> Sorry. >> Vote. Gar. >> Yes. >> Don, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes.
>> My >> yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> And Sarah votes yes. Our first budget approved. >> Good. >> On our way. Um, >> so if if we do go down contract
negotiations because of needing to try to incentivize people to come in and it changes that number, we'll bring that to you later in the process. >> Yeah. um expenses.
Do I have a motion to approve the fixed expenses in the amount of for the fiscal year 27 budget in the amount of 2,241,755? >> Actually, would it be 135,000? >> 32. >> Oh, sorry. 1321 >> 135
>> 1321 >> sorry my print out >> TA recommends >> Got it got it moved >> any discussion except when I can't read the
>> else a big race over four million on the police >> go back to that 2 million your vote. Car >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Angie, >> yes. >> Lori, >> yes. >> Yes. >> And votes yes.
Okay. Now, can we do animal control? >> You know, animal control is contractor employee with Hamilton. There really wasn't much change there.
>> So is that what what period is that contract? Is that year to year or >> Yes. It didn't go up. >> Not to my knowledge. Uh I did have conversation with the new Hamilton
chief. There was some discussion over uh a vehicle and a vehicle stipen going up. Uh but he I don't have those that information. >> They were concerned about her putting dead animals in her own personal vehicle
that she's been doing for a long time. So they want to uh give her some sort of vehicle, but it's going to be probably a Hamilton vehicle that will we'll have to pay for. Oh, we're paying for a truck. We're
paying $1,000 to her. Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> So, I move we approve it >> in the amount of 16,250. >> 315. 315. >> 250. >> 215. Okay. Yes, that's what I moved. >> Second.
>> We second. Any discussion? Oh, >> yes. John, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Mory, >> yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Yes. That's it for police, right? >> Yep.
>> Is does is emergency management >> under fire. Fire >> parking mistake. >> Yeah, you made a mistake. Parking overlaps into town. >> Thank you for the police. >> Thank you.
>> My last one. I won't say anything. >> No. >> No. That's not helping our staffing situation. >> Do you have a replacement? >> Hope so. >> He's probably going to stay on his reserve though.
>> I don't think he was trying to recruit me into being in the tree. Hey. Yeah, that's a that's a great deal. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we're not voting on any capital items until the end and we're
going to take them all to get we didn't we were fine with the capital budget. Is that correct? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We will move on to the town clerk's budget. operations and capital which is on.
Did we start with the parking? >> Yeah, let's start with parking. >> Here page 25 since we have a table of contents the numbers on the pages. So, >> the parking space, those are the uh those are the
>> the little pedestal things. >> Yeah. >> And how how how are those appearing to work out in terms of >> Well, I think that uh so let me backtrack a little bit. So a few years ago I was asked tasked by I think it was
Greg and the select board of coming up with some technology for parking because we were having limited staff for parking enforcement hard you know to find people to stay on through the whole season. So my first thought was kiosk parking but
no one seemed to like the kiosk parking. Uh I presented to Greg I think uh Rockport's uh program they have a considerable they get a considerable uh amount of money every single year to the tune of over $350,000.
Not to saying that we would get that here uh because we're different than Rockport with obviously for uh um uh you know people coming into town. So these sticks were the next best thing and we put them in the areas where there was
high traffic volume during the beach times uh that created turn created terminal people were coming back moving their cars and they weren't staying there you know for three four hours ahead of time. So when they do stay there um we have to go in the parking officer
goes in at every shift on the on the system and approve approve the ticket and it gets automatically mailed out. So I I understand it. I think it's costing the town a little bit of money for having those sticks, >> but people need to be aware if we end up taking those sticks out, we're not going
to have the turnover like we have >> unless you put some keys in >> and make. >> So the revenue line item somewhere >> was 36,000. >> That's for that's for fines. Next page
is revenue. >> Fines are are fines income through the sticks or fines are tickets mailed out >> both. >> It's both together. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> PEOS and sticks. But what what we were able to do is having our parking enforcement people expand their their
their patrol up Pine Street up uh to school street onto the parking lots of Brook and uh Brook and no lower parking lot. White Beach as well. white gauge. >> They go they go to the places where the sticks are not. >> Yes. >> I see. Yeah.
>> Um >> do we know Andrea how much of the fines is from the sticks and how much is from other things or not? >> I I have them all in one. >> Okay. >> So I haven't I haven't >> Okay.
>> But I did do a like calendar year summary of revenues versus expenses for the last four years. Um so like calendar year 22 and 23. um we were positive like 18,000 14,000. Then when we started the sticks um you know net profit if you
will um 24 and 25 calendar years we were um negative 19,000 and 24,000 >> that sounds good. So I mean if you're looking for the turnover and you're looking for things like that and
>> getting >> the kiosk uh way of doing things you you get the turnover and without the expense because it's you know it's minimal amount of kiosk versus having
essentially a kiosk at every spot >> right with the stick. >> Right. Like Beverly has. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. and and >> lots of places >> but you mentioned there wasn't there wasn't support for that time >> did they
>> can you have kiosk where there is a certain period that's free and then you could program any way you want >> I mean as far as kiosk it's untapped revenue >> I mean my wife went downtown Glosser. We
live in Glosser and I saw a charge on my debit card for a $150. I'm like, "What's this for?" She's like, "Oh, I ran into the store downtown. Put a credit card in." >> There also ways I think discussions that I had past is upload
resident stickers and I don't know how this would work out legally, but maybe residents don't pay for the first hour. >> Yeah. Okay. I think something that I've kind of been thinking about with the six too that
it's tricky is the six pay turnover which is great and that's what you want but we have a minimum of tickets that we're supposed to reach and if they're working the spots they're turning over and people aren't getting tickets and so eventually I don't know like you want them to work and people to not stay and
get ticketed but then we're not meeting the minimum that we have with the program that we're using and then we do have a fee that's added on if We don't need that. So, >> which is why the fee for the sticks is so high. >> So, maybe we should reook at the kiosks. >> And with the point
>> with the kiosk, would you now a ticket isn't automatically being produced that would be you'd have to have an you'd have to have a body that is going and >> and writing a ticket. Yeah. >> Per car. It's over the time without a
without a sticker or without something from the kiosk. >> Yeah. So you'd pay to So an officer would have to go through >> by Yeah. And they scanning. >> So the officer would go to the kiosk, type whatever they type in and find out and spot like five hasn't or they're
past the time and they'll go. >> But you also get money from the other people that are parking. Sure. >> There. Sure. It sounds like the sticks aren't that great. >> They're expensive. >> Sounds like they're getting expensive.
>> Yeah, they're good, but they're expensive. >> It's different between a pay to park and a parking enforcement. Am I right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, it's two different concepts here. >> Right. Right. >> Do you want people to pay to park in the street or do you want people to just be able to park for a certain amount of time for free? >> And then loot them out.
>> That's two benefit models. But it sounds like they might be able to make it so residents park for free and other people don't >> for like an hour or whatever. >> Well, if if you had a kiosk and it's a
parking enforcement officer that's patrolling the area and you have a sticker on your car, you know, they're going to know. >> But in at the chaos that I've used, you put in your license plate. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so you could program it to know
whether that's a Manchester license plate or not. >> I mean, don't >> uh on this, but I was told that they can upload backload the information from our resident parking information, our stickers or our or
>> Yeah. And then that would >> it'd be a matter of finding the right vendor program that works for us. And >> just keep in mind that that type of policy pushes back against the desire to have turnover. You know, if you're if if Manchester
residents are able to park for free with no limit, you're not going to have the spaces turning over. And that was really the driving my understanding the real driving force was especially downtown was to get the spots turned over. So >> I but I thought and I could be wrong. I
thought the concern was with respect to non-residents, not as much as residents, but I could be wrong. >> Well, there's also speaking on behalf of the downtown improvement committee. >> Yes. Um there was also concern that
employees of Kais or I don't know feed on them or something but you know some employees they're working for were working for six hours and they just leave their car right in front of >> Kais and that was kind of not good. >> Yeah. >> Even though whether they're a resident
or not. So, it really is the amount of time that they're occupying the spot and and parking. Speaking as a shopping center owner, parking generates revenues, >> right? >> If we don't have parking in our shopping
center, we're not going to get revenues in the shops. So, it's it's pretty critical to a downtown. I I suppose you also might be able to have kiosks that I mean I'm assuming you can program them
so that if if people are over a certain period of time >> Yeah. >> you know I don't know >> I think you start with an analysis of you know not changing the policy but kiosk verse sticks.
>> Yeah. kiosk probably include an additional um parking enforcement officer, but >> well, I mean, they wouldn't be so inclined to be, you know, out in those external areas. They'd have to cut
straight back downtown, >> right? Or you add another you add another. So, what that cost added in, you know, and how those how that compares. >> But you'd hope kiosk if you did kiosk, you'd hope kiosk revenue would mean you wouldn't at least be negative.
Right. But you have to factor in the added cost of the enforcement officer to make sure that tickets are being produced for people who are exceeding what they paid, you know, for the amount of time they paid for. Um, so that would be the analysis I would start with.
>> I mean, when I go to kiosk, >> you just put in your credit card and then you put it in when you leave and it's just charged for the amount of time you're there. I think >> no ticket. You put it on your window.
>> You don't even have a ticket for your window. Usually now it's >> you just type in your license plate and you select how much time >> you're going to be there for, right? And then there's a >> you can use the app, >> but then there's a you know a parking
enforcement officer has access to that data >> and if you >> they scan the license plates and they know >> Yeah. If you've exceeded that time, they would write you a ticket. Whereas now the sticks, >> you don't have that. They just they write the ticket themselves.
>> And is there any mechanism for I mean some of this is for the benefit of the downtown businesses? I wonder if there's any feedback that you know business is better or you know >> I think but I but I definitely think like the turnover has improved. turnover
is definitely >> we've definitely had a few >> uh employees of local businesses uh >> those concerns >> feel the pressure um >> but >> yeah so I think I think it's it's
accomplished that goal >> now we're just seeing that it's financially it's not really working out for us but that might be okay that might be what we want to do is you know we >> we we won't make a revenue, but we're pushing
uh turnover downtown and that's helping the businesses and which maybe produces local, you know, meals tax and we get revenue in that way. So, you know, >> nice to actually do some metrics on it like over the
fiscal year 27 or something to just kind of get more data. Yeah, might be able to pull some of that data looking back too. >> Dean, go ahead. >> Yeah, thanks. So, I'm glad to hear that
we're um moving away from these parking sticks and I'm very surprised to hear some of these conditions of the contract and from a procedural well two things. One, will it cost us anything to get out of this contract? And two, um, why
weren't we appraised of the details of this contract? Um, I know things get handled, but who who negotiated this where we hear that there's a minimum fee when we know offseason there's no parking issues. So, uh, it just
mystifies me, you know, as a finance committee, did we drop the ball and not looking over this contract? Did someone write this contract with other uh issues in mind? I don't know. >> I don't believe the sticks are used offse.
>> So, >> will it cost us anything to get out of it though? The contract. >> Uh we'd have to take a look at the language. >> The sticks run from May 1st to October 15th
except for the one from the post office. Oh, really? >> Question is, um, is the parking enforcement officer a full-time position, a seasonal >> seasonal seasonal? Is it sort of like uh lifeguard like you know seasonal so many
months and >> seasonal fulltime >> benefits and all that stuff? Okay. >> Any more questions on parking? >> Nope. Do I have a motion to approve the parking
salary and expenses budget in the amount of 70,831? >> Second. >> Second. >> Wouldn't discussion. >> Go ahead, Dean. >> Wouldn't whether we vote for this budget
depend on what we do with the parking sticks? I I think that it's premature to assume that there will be any change in the parking sticks and or kiosk or anything by the time we need to approve
this budget. So, I think we have to approve what's here if you know a study's done and they I think it's going to take some time to study it. Yeah. >> Well, this is for FY27 though, >> right? But we're voting on it in
April town meeting and this is a decision for the select board not the finance committee. >> Okay. >> With respect to policy of how they want to enforce the parking. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So that's why.
>> Okay. Any other question? >> Right. I'm in a hurry to get rid of them for aesthetic reasons. I think they're ugly. But anyway, I'm going to say yes. >> You want to vote? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Andy? >> Yes. >> Mory? >> Yes. >> Dean? >> Yes. >> And Sarah? Yes. Okay. >> See you next year. I see five most days. >> Keep trying.
>> Keep trying too. >> You sure? >> Thank you. >> My car down there. >> I hear about the tractor actually. >> The front is off. >> It's moved. >> Okay. Now we're on to the town clerk
budget, page 23. Looks like the clerk is moved to full time in 26. >> Yes. And it's been great. >> She started at the beginning of September. for my assistant. Um, yeah,
been really good. Big help. >> Good. >> Have we made a lot of inroads in that document retention stuff or documentation that she was hired for? >> So, well, part of it was for her to
cover other tasks that I can do that. So, we did have an archivist come out in November who went through did a review of things in our storage room and we're now working on uh well, that's been updated pretty
well. So, the next I think we can clear out about 10 boxes in July. So, that'll be the next step. But, yeah, that's been a big help. Um, we also, let's stick out somewhere. Yeah. So, some of the other things that
we've been able to do, she has been going through our land use files and indexing those and making sure everything's in the proper place. We, as we had mentioned before with the chief, the request foyer program. So, we're actually was just working with Tiffany
at the end of the day. She's going to announce that tomorrow and it's going out in the tide. So, that was great. That was a big project this fall um that I was able to work on because she was helping cover the counter and the phones and the you know kind of basic not basic I mean it's a lot of work but the
inquiries and things like that from the public. Um so that's coming. We also I've made a few big spreadsheets of like elections. put in the election date and it'll calculate all the things we need to do and the dates that we should be
doing them by from our office which has been a huge help. Um so we're that way we have it set up if anything happens. We both have access to it. We know what's going on. Um next project I don't know if it'll happen soon because we do have five elections coming up this year
but working on an elections contingency plan. Um so it's really her being full-time has allowed me to do some of these bigger projects. Um yeah it's been great. Yeah. Any questions on cl things here? Not a lot of changes. >> No, a lot of changes.
>> Yes. >> The other stuff is elections, I'm guessing. The printing and stuff like that. >> Um, elections is actually its own page. So, printing >> that yet. >> Yeah. Printing advertising is interesting. It's actually mostly dog licenses. So, that that went up a bit. Yeah.
because we are printing the mailings for those and uh ordering the tags and those kinds of things. That's kind of where they've fallen. >> We increase the license fees. They hope to >> what's that? >> We increase the license fees for that. >> We have not. Um dog licenses are 20 if
the dog is spayed or neuter, 25 if it's not, and there's $10 late fees according to the bylaw. Uh it's a pretty average compared to other communities average fee. Um, some people they wait till June, get wed with $55. They haven't
done it, but yeah, overall seems to work. >> Are all the dog related fees in a bylaw? >> Yeah, I believe so. I I think they're under animal control under police, but we can double check that. So, yeah, I wouldn't be able to just change it
easily. >> Careful of dog articles. two meeting. >> Yeah. And it is. I don't think I think if we were to raise it much more, I would Yeah. be more than other communities. >> Does that
Where's the price for the stupid resident parking stickers? >> Those are under the parking budget. >> Sorry. >> Divide and conquer. >> Tell us how you really do. Okay. >> Yeah. But um yeah, those are under they
would be a combination of the computer fees and the printing fees on parking. >> Yeah. Uh yeah. So, >> as far as town clerk goes, the only thing that I forgot to mention in the memo that we can also talk about if it
comes up with capital, but uh looking at actually this is another project hoping for with the help of my assistant covering the office um general code. We can codify our legislation. So, they will do a review of the bylaws, zoning
in general. We will they'll they can help us organize it. they'll host a better website than a giant PDF which we have on our current one. Every time after a town meeting I have to go into the word document to try and update the bylaws freezes and I get a lot of error messages and it's very concerning that
someday it will just disappear or something. Uh so that's a project we're looking into but that would add like a $1,500 fee annually eventually if we were to go through with that project. But that's not that's really the only thing I can see coming up in the next two years budgetwise.
I think we're in a pretty good place. >> Um, >> I had a question, sir. >> Yes. Go ahead, De. >> So, I I'd like to look at an initiative. Right now we have um residents have to register at like multiple third-party
vendors to pay like a beach sticker versus a a football fee or I was you know that's becoming more and more of a security concern because you have to register for each site and I'd like to get a grasp on how much more it would
cost if we would could just do it the oldfashioned way and send them to the clerk or or somewhere else. Um, would that be a significant expense if we were to take a a a stand towards security, internet security, and rethink
some of these third party vendors? >> So, uh, if you would like me to hire more people and to give me a bigger office to fit more people, we could talk about it. Uh, I don't know that that I think part of the problem is
I understand your concern because there are a lot of different touch points, but different websites specialize in different departments needs and so I would love to have like one website where you do it all, but that's just not really we can't find that service. Um,
so I don't know realistically that that would be a good option. I walk into the parks and recck department and pay for my >> Yeah. >> tags. >> There there are there are plenty of
people who still do that. We check. >> Yes. >> We definitely still have people who still walk in for their residence stickers and walk in for their dog license and walk in for, you know, various other things they can do online. But sort of just the way the world is going
now. And >> got to talk about cyber security then. Maybe that's a different >> I paid for my boring >> Yeah. >> online. Did you do it? >> No, I I I tried to pay online and I it just
>> it was tilt >> bill and so I ended up just walking into town hall and >> Did you do yours online, John? >> I heard that. >> Not yet. >> It's not due yet. I would like to say though that we do
review um our vendors um every at least once a year. Um you know our treasure collector you know uses UNIPE. We like she's always out at the you know conferences talking to other communities and things like that. So like it is something we're use we're checking into. We're making sure that you know
compliant with all the regulations and everything. So um you know and our internal security as well with the consortium and the forinet and for client that we use and everything. So I think we're like really um ahead of some of the people
on it. So >> did you want to say something about that? >> I just I think I if I understand Dean correctly the problem is that you have to register in a lot of different places. >> Yeah.
And and that's that's up to the I would think that would be up to the user to use a device a an app that generates passwords. There's there's no particular risk in having multiple registrations if you
don't use the same password every that's just personal sanitation. Well, last year the number one identity theft vehicle was through water meter accounts. >> Ours we don't have a water meter account.
>> Not yet. But I mean those type of things are that's it's a real risk. I I think I guess my perspective on it is that we we have to provide multiple options
for residents to pay for multiple different things and we always have the ability to accept direct pay here in the town hall. So, you know, if a resident is concerned about those things, we have alternative
options for them, but it's really hard to limit that option down to one because some residents really like to pay electronically, some like to pay by check, some like to pay by cash. You
know, it's uh it's we are kind of on the business side of things. We have kind of have to provide multiple options. >> You choose to use them unlike some other entity. >> Yeah. I've had I have had residents asked about the DBW stickers and if
there's a way to >> Oh, the >> pay that online stickers. >> Yeah. When you have to go to the transfer station. >> Yeah. >> And so it's, you know, some people prefer one, some prefer another. It's a problem. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Convenience. >> Yep.
>> Okay. Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the town park budget in the amount of $167,752? >> So move. >> Second. >> Any discussion? Take a vote. Car. >> Yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Andy,
>> yes. >> My >> yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Sarah Ro, yes. >> Town clerk election and registration. 69.36% increase in the budget. >> Good thing it's a small budget.
I'll take the retract. >> So, >> we had no elections last year. >> What? >> Well, we have another one, right? >> Well, unbudgeted. We'll have two two more. So we'll have three total by the end of fiscal 26. Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So last year in the budget, one election, one town meeting. Next year in the budget, three elections, one town meeting. >> You may have another election.
>> There may be another collection. >> Or are you counting the school budget? The school. So, in the budget now, is the September state primaries, the November state election, and this >> spring 2027 town election?
>> There very well may be >> December ballot, >> a a U town meeting, probably depending on how the schedule works out. I'll make the S pay for it. >> Yes. >> Good luck.
>> And and that would also require a ballot. >> Um what when we're talking elections? >> Yep. >> So, excuse me. the local elections,
there's no early voting, no absentee voting. >> There's still absentee. >> There is absentee. >> Yeah, there's always mail voting. >> Okay. >> Um there is no in-person early voting because when we looked at it, I think we were getting I can't remember now. I looked at it with the registars and it
was like maybe one person an hour or something and it was not worth paying two because we have to have two people sitting there >> and it just wasn't worthwhile for local elections. >> So what's the most expensive component of an election? Is it the voting at on
election day because of all the >> It depends on the type of election. So for a local, yes, certainly voting on election day, I mean a big state or big presidential mail is a big component, too. >> Okay. >> Um because I know for
if I remember correctly, and I might be confusing some Beverly and Manchester numbers, but what I think I've seen with like the last presidential there's maybe half mail, half in person, >> something like that. So that's a lot of postage and a lot of time packaging all
those and sometimes getting people in the office to help with packaging all those and processing >> mailing ballots out to the voters. >> Yeah. But we don't see nearly that for a local election. We have some but not to the same degree.
>> Any more questions on election and registration? >> No. How does election security get? Is that done by the police department? >> Yes, we have usually one officer there. >> Watching when you put your ballot in the
machine >> but not looking at it >> on the on the school potential school election. We we the last time we talked about that, we were amongst ourselves questioning whether
that could be added to the state or on the same day as the whether it could be added to the ballot for the state elections or if it could also even a second ballot that could be offered on the same day. I don't know. >> Yeah. So, I can speak to that a little
bit. So, I believe we'd ask the state, it can't be added to for a regional district, it can't be added to the state ballot. You can do what's called a dual election uh and have a local election the same day as a state election.
Very mixed reviews on that because it leads to you have to have two check-in lists. You have to have two ballots. Some people might only want the local one or only want the state one. >> You have to have two ballot boxes. Um, so it's basically running two elections
right next to each other and you have things like the mail ballots. You have to make sure you know which one or both people request. There's a lot of color coding that goes on in clerk's offices that have dual elections. Um, so it is an option. It's Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I
could handle it, but >> I think you have to let the the state know the first Wednesday in August. >> Yes. Well, and but I think the regional one you wouldn't even be able to do. >> We can't have it on the state >> on the ballot. Oh, yes. Right. >> We still have to let them know. >> Yes.
>> Yes. Yeah. So, if we were going to do it the same day, we would have to notify the state by August. And the one thing about the regional one that I'm fairly certain of, but correct me, you may know, but um you can do shorter hours. You don't have to do the 7 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.
>> So, the two communities would agree on their hours. Um, and it's, yeah, could be a little simpler, but that's if it was a special election just for the Obviously, you wouldn't do that if you're doing it the same day as the state because that would very much
confuse people if they could only come for, you know, certain hours for the school and yes, >> others for the state. So, you wouldn't do that, but if it was a separate day, you could it would cut the cost down a bit. Um, what I heard at the school committee on Tuesday was that they thought that
they would not be ready to have a vote until December. So, I think the question of >> a dual election is moot. >> Okay. Yeah. >> I you probably know a lot more about it than I do. >> No, no. I I think what
>> Yeah. My expectation is, you know, we'll need special town meeting, fall town meeting for, you know, the vote there and then a and then a follow-up ballot in December. >> Sounds like we're asking a lot of people to come out a lot of times to vote
>> and a lot of people to work 16 hours a day. At some point people are like, >> "Yeah, >> I've already been I've been to the school three times to vote on something. I'm going for a fourth." Not everybody's >> big into this stuff.
>> What would be the disadvantage of waiting like the four months till April December? >> Uh just timing. >> You know, part of part of it is the the schedule with the MSBA. >> You know, there's there's there are clocks, you know, on that process. with
this song we can't afford it >> there's you know just time to market you know because time time costs money you know it's going to cost more money in four months >> so given that I mean if there were generally would estimate 10,000 for an
election and then a small town meeting I think would be like 7 to 8,000. So that's just something that's not in here, but >> Oh, do I have a motion to approve the election and registration budget for the amount of
>> second? Any discussion? >> D. >> Yes. >> D. >> Yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Mory, >> yes. your chain. >> Yes. >> Is that all we have for town clerk? >> Capital. >> Capital.
>> Okay. >> Yeah, those are my three. >> Capital pad upgrade. >> Yes. What's that mean? >> So, poll pads, check in for election and town meetings. Um, great system. You can
look up voters. Uh, we have four that are due to be uh replaced this summer, I believe it is, or no, after I think it's after the state election, and two that will be in FY29.
>> How long do they last? Uh the vendor estimates I think six years before you should update them to avoid any issues on election days or town meetings and things like that. Like >> I'm sorry, what are the poll pots? >> So when you go to check in a town
meeting, we have um it's basically an iPad, but it h we it's we work with a vendor and it has all of our election information and um list of voters so we can check people in on the poll pads rather than using a paper list. And at the election, we use a paper and a pull pad to kind of check each other.
>> Got it. >> It's what Melanie does. >> Yes. >> Any more questions in the capital? >> I will say the uh codification project, we just applied for a grant this week for that. So, I'm hoping that it won't
happen in capital and it'll happen through a grant. That would be great. But, >> and what's that for? Um, so that is the general code up updating the bylaws and posting them on a much better surface. >> That wouldn't be a matching for the grant.
>> Oh, good. >> Yeah, just an annual maintenance fee of 1500 after that if we were to do the upgrade. >> And what's the accessible voting machine? >> So that's um right now we have the Automark machine which is wider than this table and it makes a lot of sounds
when you try to use it. Uh but it's for people who uh have vision issues or um can't have issues in marking the ballot. So anyone who has a shaking hand, so it's a machine that will read the ballot to them. There's headphones. Um it's
really great for people who need it and it's also very old. So the state, the one that we have now was through a grant that the state got from the federal government and they gave them to every community in the state years ago. Um they don't think that they're going to
be able to do that again. So we eventually will have to replace it and they told communities to start putting it in their budgets that it may be coming up. We don't know the exact price. We don't know exactly when one because it has to be certified by the elections division first to be allowed
to be used. So there's a couple options that they're reviewing and we'll see when and if they approve one that can be used and they have a nice one that's like this big I can lift by myself and eventually I would love to get that one and it's much more um
reliable than the one we have now. But for now, yeah, we're using what we can and just something to keep in mind going down the line. >> You think state would ever like do like a bulk purchase for all the communities like you pay into like >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. I mean,
yeah. >> I keep waiting for my financial system software, but >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Thank you for coming. Any
leazison on updates? >> No information. >> Okay, >> um we have minutes from January 8, 26 to approve.
>> Sarah, I'm sorry. Um, I was on mute trying to say the CPC is kind of up in arms regarding the Rotunda stuff. So, even though it's not till the following year, they're all like concerned about how that's going to play out and they're
looking for more information from us and the select board to have more of a a plan. Um, so we >> we've discussed it in the finance committee and I think the finance committee discussion was we didn't particularly support bonding it through
CPC but we felt it should be through the town. >> Yeah. >> So we've had that discussion. Um I don't >> I did relay that but Jack was trying to find another way. That's all
>> we met with Jack today. Um we did you did have that discussion. Uh my impression was that it was we we were tasked to come back to you with scenarios you know what's the debt debt
burden borrowing it through our to oursel you know through uh the town. Um and then plus last meeting we talked about potentially uh >> taking us and then also if we were to do
that through CPC what that meant and what if we did that through CPC and increase the rate what that meant. So we're preparing to present those details to you um next week.
>> Okay. Okay, De. >> Yep. Yep. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, minutes from January 8th. You had an amendment. >> Yeah. >> Andy.
>> Yeah. And that's partly I guess speaks to our kind of AI function for the minutes. But I think Dean, you're you're quoted in the minutes as with a comment about a concern over the public trust in the Verunda project, which
I don't really have a good feeling about whether that's true or not. But regardless of that, I don't feel like it's a pertinent comment for Vinc minutes. So, I would propose that we strike that comment and and I would like to get a
better sense of what our options are with the AI note takingaking, you know, because it seems like it's pretty voluminous right now. >> You can always ask someone else. I do. >> Well, yeah. >> Yeah.
>> I I can comment. Um, I did look at that. I I did finally get the minutes and I was reviewing them as we spoke as we had the meeting. But um I I did mention that that that you know we we went to town meeting and everyone
left thinking that the rotunda was funded. Um we had known about the grants falling through before town meeting. We questioned people and we were assured that this one was good. that only one
grant had fallen through a town meeting. >> We were told the coastal zone management for 1 million was pretty much guaranteed and we funded other things. >> We did not I spoke at town meeting and I did not say that. >> No, not at town meeting. This is at
Fincom before town meeting, you know, one of our meetings. But >> I I am opposed to having in our minutes individual concerns expressed. I I think that the
minutes should reflect the consensus of the board. >> Okay. >> That I don't think we should be saying he said, she said um and going into that much detail. That's that's my opinion. I
I just think it sets the wrong tone. Anybody can listen to the tape if if they want to listen to it. But I think it really should reflect the consensus of the fincom in the minutes. I don't know what other people think. >> I agree.
>> I think so. And then generally it should speak to the financial aspect of a given project as opposed to the you know the the tenor of people's feelings about it. >> Okay. So we'll start with the Mr.
Nihadus and scrap everything to um suggested and that whole paragraph will be gone or that whole sentence >> first sentence >> Mr. Nada suggested funding through a bond paid for by operational cuts blah blah blah. That's fine if you want to.
>> Okay. Yep. That's good. >> Thank you. Yep. >> Anything else? Um, do I have a motion to approve the January 2026 meetings as amended? >> So, >> second.
>> I'll second it. >> January. >> I'll second them. >> Yeah, you can't do it. >> I know. I'm not I'm abstaining. That's what you're asking. I'm curious if you're voting or asking for a second. >> Asking for a second. What's your name? >> But now I will ask for a vote. Carr,
>> yes. >> John, >> abstain. >> Same. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Sarah votes, yes. Dean, >> yes. >> Yes. Okay. Approved. >> Andy, stop by our office and talk with Debbie. >> Okay.
>> She she knows the AI program best and >> Yeah. >> She'll be able to look at that with you >> as far as Okay. >> settings and >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a it's not a general AI thing. It's something specific,
>> right? It's a it's a >> I think there's summary and there's detail. It's different levels. I think it's not generalize. We have a we have a software system that we >> that we utilize for specifically for
minute taking for public meetings. >> So, if you talk with her, she might be able to show you what the capabilities are through that program. Yeah, might have to call our person stopping by. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um the next thing is the next meeting dates and and the schedule. So, um Tony given us a draft schedule. Um,
I did issue the agenda for next Thursday today because of the holiday on Monday. Um, so I think I had COA in there because that's what we talked about, but we're going to now have that due
February. >> COA COA is really straightforward. Um, it's one of those ones that we can kind of plug in >> any any night that we have. That's an easy one to move around. >> Okay. So, I'll leave that on the January
22nd. It was in the agenda. I printed. Okay. If we don't get to it, we don't get to it. That's okay. Okay. Um, >> do you have the other three on there, too, or? >> Yeah, I have library, CPC. Wait a minute. Where's my little >> And health >> and board of health. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right.
>> Library, CPC, Council on Aging, and Board of Health. Okay. >> I library first, then CPC, then the other two. >> She said Andrea could handle those. >> Yeah. >> And she gets to stick out the whole meeting, so I put her at the end.
>> The I think the biggest discussion there is going to be CPC in the rotunda. Yeah. And then um maybe library with the ADA bathroom. But for the most part, the operational budgets pretty straightforward.
>> Yeah. I had an off I had a conversation with somebody from library and I guess there's some concern about the Saturday hours not being moved. >> Yes. >> And my response was to that individual was that this is a very tight budget year. I might not be here to bring back
Saturday hours. >> I'm going to since I'm not going to be here next week tomorrow I'll send you I'll send the committee a note on those. Um and we spoke with the um librarian as
well about that issue. I explained the same thing. >> Yeah. >> And I said, >> you know, maybe maybe we could revisit it later in the process if things like OPED and health insurance and school budget work out. But, you know, as the budget as is, it's
just really hard to justify that with >> especially where we are with the school budget right now. Yeah. Okay. And then I think that what I'll do on the agendas is I mean we got other things like debt
service and I don't know unapprop un nonappropriated. >> Yeah. That stuff. >> Um that I'll just put in a caveat at all the meetings of just miscellaneous. >> This could happen.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, okay. And I will now. And there's a typo on here that you get two three fives and the second one should be three.
>> Oh, thank you. >> Somebody cut and paste. >> Yeah, I definitely copied and pasted. Um >> uh >> and yeah >> 35 and 312 have exactly the same.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. We we expected to need two meetings to do capital. >> Okay. So I think that it was just >> Yeah. Yeah. I do that all the time. >> Yeah. >> Uh we should you know as far as health
insurance goes >> Yeah. Um so if finance goes on January 29th um midFebruary we'll have a better we should have our number our real
increased number for health insurance. So benefits I think fall under finance department. Um so that part of it could be revisited later. >> Let's do um add benefits to the 226.
Okay. Assessor. >> Yeah. Now, and the assessor includes um building department. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And then we'll just we'll do the B we won't do the benefits when we do the
finance to that's a separate >> it is a separate section. >> Yeah. We'll do the benefits on 226 when we have final numbers. better numbers. >> Even if uh you know a school needs to move down to 226, maybe we could move
those, you know, swap them. We'll see what >> I I've got to email Pam. I was I don't know. Something happened to me this week. >> Verizon. >> Verizon. >> I'm not that wasn't my excuse, but I just got Well, part of my problem is I'm
I'm having to move out of my second floor and I have bookcases and the books are heavy and I have to get to the second floor of the garage. So, it should be me a while. Um, okay.
So, that's good. And then what's this other thing is the timeline. >> Yeah, these are key dates. Just just really >> really more on our end, but um you know
We work our way back from April 27th and then put it in chronological order. >> You know, March 27th is a big date because that's when the report goes to the printer. Um,
February 27th is a big date because our general bylaw requires articles to be uh submitted 60 days in advance. Um, so we just kind of like wanted to put this together so the planning board,
the FINCOM, the select board and staff, we're all on the same page of >> y >> what are the big dates that we have to keep in mind. >> So one of the things that's not on this schedule
is the well schools here but um approval of the warrant articles. We normally do that. We do that before the booklet's printed because it goes in the booklet. Right. >> Right. >> Yep. >> So, we've got to do the warrant
articles. >> Usually do that close to when the selectment do it. Select court doesn't. >> We had a list at plus a date to it. >> What? I don't see when when the select
board is approving the warrant. >> Well, so this um all articles have to be submitted to the select board. >> Yeah. >> 60 days in advance. So then it would be you know we can pick a date
in March. Uh the select board meets on the 2nd and the 16th. So, why don't we do Can't be the 2nd of the 16th. The second Thursday. The second. Are you talking February or March? >> March.
>> March 2nd is a Thursday because we're meeting. >> No, >> that's >> Oh, 12. I'm sorry. I couldn't read my own writing. >> Okay.
So I think we do the warrant articles on will the select have the final >> typically we do it we try to do it a few days before the select board if possible. >> Okay. So we'll do it on the 12th. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> I think that's how that's worked. >> I couldn't remember whether we do it before or after. >> Usually FinCom kind of weighs in and then you all decide well yeah we agree with them or we don't agree with them. At least on the financial one. Yeah, we have your recommendations
before we >> right >> make our recommendations. >> Okay. >> So, if we do it on the 12th and you're meeting on the 16th, >> right? Yep. >> That should be okay because >> the book doesn't have to be go to the printer till the 26th.
>> So, there hopefully we don't have too much. >> So, March March 12th, we're adding in Warner. >> Yep. And the other just wild card in here, this Tony, this list you put together is great, is a little bit about the school.
You know, theoretically they kind of follow their schedule, but again, we're dealing with two towns, >> so sometimes things get pushed downhill. And >> yeah, um what I heard on Tuesday is that they plan to vote on the numbers that
should go in the booklet um on February 3rd. They won't know for sure what their health insurance is and um they have some other areas where they may be able to reduce things but their plan at the moment if I understood it correctly and
I probably don't was that they would vote on February 3rd for a budget with hopes of reducing it thereafter. >> And when do you think they're going to have the vote when they're going to have the help and the vote on the reduced? Didn't you say sometime in March? Yeah,
I I don't want numbers in our booklet that's not the final numbers. It's too confusing. We've been there, done that. >> I had recommendation on town meeting floor as opposed to publishing something that's incorrect. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I mean, I had one, what was it, two years ago? >> Yeah. >> When I had to get up there at town meeting and and say, "Well, yeah, this was in the book, but this is the way it is now." and it was not pretty. >> It's dangerous. >> Yeah.
>> Um I think there needs to be >> push into late February. >> Yeah. >> I don't know when the school committee meets. They're >> they're on the fir the first and third Tuesday. >> Tuesday unless there's a school
vacation. So in March the 17th would be the third Tuesday and we're meeting on the 19th though I'll >> so
>> I'll put school finalize school on the 19th. >> They're talking about having an open collaboration meeting sometime relatively soon. Pam said she'd send out. um notification for that and that might
be a good place to have this this discussion for with both. >> Yeah. >> Um oh there was another thing Andrea. >> Yes. >> I brought this newspaper with me to remind me. There is something in this
newspaper that says that our match for Morse Pier is 90,460 and we had a much higher number in the budget
>> 20% of the 4523 >> if this paper's right. >> We had 116. >> Yeah. And Bayon saying it's 90,460. Okay. quoted in the paper >> and that the total is 450 the grant is
4300 and we have to pay 20%. >> Okay. >> 90,000 makes on that. >> Yeah. Just so you can double check that. >> I knew I had to be remind. >> Okay. Anything else? So everyone knows we're meeting on
January 22nd to do library CPC, board of health, and Council on the Aging if we have time. >> Yep. >> I don't see anything any of those going particularly long, but who knows? I wouldn't have expected tonight to be so long.
>> See what happens. >> We had a good conversation. >> It sticks. I ended here to end this conversation. Um, with that I'll take a motion to adjurnn. So,
>> all in favor? >> I >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. See you.