I will call the finance committee meeting to order on Thursday, February 12th at 7:02 p.m. Um, this is a hybrid meeting. This is being recorded. Um, I have with me in the room from the
finance committee garying and myself Sarah Melish. We have from the town and we're named though that finance director Tony Barlet the town administrator um from DPW um
Josh >> Dan >> and Rogers um from select board I have Harrison we also have a new from the town Mark Res and we have from the public Jod.
Um I just wanted to start off with a few comments to kind of set the tone for tonight's meeting. Um I don't wish to entertain any derogatory comments about
boards, volunteers or town employees. And I also don't wish to entertain any discussion regarding the parameters of the covert or the rotunda projects because they've had a lot of public input and the select
board which is the executive branch has approved those projects in the form they're in. Um and I don't want us to discuss any re-engineering of DBW.
Um if people have comments upon about that sort of thing, they should be addressed to this record. Thank you. Um with that, we will start with the operations budget
for DPW. So s I don't I did put a couple of slides together. Uh I don't know if you want to just go through budget operating and then you can slide or not or you >> are the slides we got in capital or
operations. >> They're just kind of a look back and a look forward. So it like encapsulates you know usually when I come in you guys want to know like hey how did that project last year that we approved money for go and then you know looking forward to what's in this year's capital. So um it's it's only a dozen slides and we
don't have to dwell on anyone really. I just wanted to show you guys the information and that we can the end of the slide is actually operating and then capital. So, >> okay. >> I think I need to request share.
It doesn't work though, we don't have to do it. True. >> Oh, yeah. I need to do it. >> I think I might. There we go. Great. >> All right. So, uh,
like I said, just a little bit of a look back on, you know, things that were approved over the last few years and then looking forward and, you know, what we have going on. Uh, similar topics to what we've always had. We have the pipeline roadway work. We had a lot of that last year, PAS, wastewater
treatment, culvert. Uh we do have a facility planning committee now which ties into some of the previous appropriations and looking forward. Then like I mentioned at the end I had the operating and capital stuff. Uh on the pipeline and roadway front uh last year
we completed Pleasant Forest Mill Essex Road. We also did some uh small stretches of paving on Forest Lane, Cobburn Upper Pine and we did do a pretty significant project on the Beach Street sidewalk. Uh what we have in the pipeline planning right now is atwater
at upper school. You remember that was part of the CST special permit as well as uh other initiatives that the town has for bike lanes and whatnot. >> Is that delayed because of the delay in the CST or is that unrelated to the CST? >> They actually wrote the check. So we
have the checks. It's just now I'm you know coordinating with them so we're not trying to occupy the same place at the same time. So that's why it's 26 or 27. We'll see depending on what their schedule looks like. Um, TAP and Bennett are the big pipeline work. Obviously,
you guys know that Tapin is on this year's capital agenda. Bennett would be the following year, you know, whenever appropriated. Uh, and then I've heard on previous meetings that have been uh, you know, keyed in on that, you know, it's kind of like what's after that. Um, so that in my mind at Summer Street, but we
could talk about that. Uh, this is the map that I've shown you guys since I've been here. So we're you know eight years in roughly the blue is the work that we've done uh in for water man highlighted in yellow over there is the you know vintage of the pipe. So
everything that red that you see is still pre900 even though the stuff under the blue was red previously. Um again we won't dwell on it. I do have uh you know going out 25 or so years to try and get as much of that red pipe as possible. Um this is
the spreadsheet that Nate and I keep. It might be hard to see. I'll I'll send you guys the slides after. But in general, what we're looking at is, you know, over the past eight or so years, we've spent almost $12 million in, you know, capital projects. That includes, you know, some things that were grant funded, like the
forestry CST project was massworks grant. Um, you know, we're we're roughly averaging about 400 bucks a foot on pipeline rehabilitation and replacement costs. So, I've just been kind of like just for show and tell, apply that 400 bucks a foot to the outstanding pipe and
you're looking at, you know, we're still roughly 40 million out on that over whatever time. >> For the pipe or is that for the whole >> that that's just pipe? So, it's, you know, it's not taking into account everything, but uh and you know, like you've seen on tap and Bennett like we're doing sewer and drain. So, you
know, jacks the price up. It's not 400 bucks a foot for all that. >> What percentage is that of the pipe effort? I mean, is that like a third or something that >> uh it's about 25%. Uh maybe we're getting up to around 30, but so there's
about 70% of that stuff left. >> And then we we also have a roadway maintenance plan that we do. So this is uh you know, the stuff in the square box there is the stuff that's considered major rehabilitation when we look at it from an engineering perspective. The ones that we've crossed off, you know, that's that's us making it through the
list. The ones in green, that's TAP and Bennett. So, those are obviously bad roadways as well as pipeline work. Uh, the one that's in orange there and you know down below, uh, those are the ones that we did kind of partial just paving last year. That's Cobburn. That's Forest
Lane. We didn't do any pipeline work on there. We just kind of did an overlay to take the curse off it a bit. >> So, where is summer on that list? Is it in the box or outside? I can't read it. >> Actually, summer is uh, state maintained. So we actually don't have that in our uh pavement management plan
but the pipe we own the pipe underneath. >> Um so that's going to be you know the trick on that one is we have to coordinate with DOT. Um we will be responsible for restoration of our trench or pits whatever we end up doing there but um so it'll be up to
>> the state whether or not they keep going. >> That's something that's four years away five years away. Uh, I mean, yeah, if you if we do tap in this year, Bennett next year, uh, you know, summer street is pretty long street even if we're just doing the pipeline. So, we might want to break that up over a few years. Um, but
it, you know, it'll be a subject to other appropriation and capital needs. >> I think I think >> but it is easy to break that one up. >> They paved Summer Street about four years ago and they usually pave it every 10 to 15 years. So, >> we probably want to do it like a couple
of years before their next paving. >> It was a little bit earlier than that. It wasn't quite four years ago because I was here when they when they did it and they did like a chip and seal on that one, >> right? >> And uh so yeah, it was it will be something. The pipeline actually, believe it or not, is off the roadway in a lot of locations. So, we might not
need to if we could do it with um you know, just doing access and doing a clean line job, we might not be in the roadway all that much anyway. Um so, I think we would be fine with doing whatever independent. Okay. But I think no matter what, you know, if if we're doing tapping now, Bennett the
year after and you know, maybe we're a year or two after that before we get to Summer Street, um we wouldn't be in their moratorium or anything like that. We'd be responsible for some sort of rehab. >> Now, in all these major major renovate rehabilitations, you include the sidewalks.
>> Uh yeah. Uh so, you know, like this past year, we did Plan Street, we did do the sidewalk on that one. Uh there's a small section of sidewalk off forest street. We did that. Uh on Essex Road, we did do the sidewalk on Old Essex Road as well. Um so we are we are looking for that. Um
you know, we'll get to it later in the capital projects, but you know, I I foresee us um you know, whether or not we do tap in, assuming we even if we do do tap in, we would like to have some additional funding so that we could do some more small overlays or sidewalk restoration elsewhere in town. So it
wouldn't just be like we're spending all of our money just on Tapen Street. There's other projects uh that we could probably get done. >> So would you consider um rolling the dice for another 15 years on Tappen because it needs to be resurfaced? >> Let's not talk about TAP until we get to
the capital projects. Okay. >> No, I thought we were just talking about it, but okay. >> I mean I'll through these and we'll we'll get there. But >> yeah, >> I just had a quick question. Um, so looking at the numbers, looks like we got about another 30 years of pipe work
if we're going at our current rate. How long does the pipe stuff last? >> Like, are we going to be undoing are we going to be redoing stuff? >> Well, that's what I'm hoping answer is going to be. But >> so, believe it or not, that that 70% of us though that that's all the stuff
that's already 100 years old or more, >> right? >> Um, so, you know, in 30 years, all the stuff that's only 70 years old will now be 100 years old. So like you know we're not going to be done in 30 years necessarily but um that being said like I do anticipate that we will get 50 years or more out of the pipeline that
we have been doing. >> Um you know we've been mostly focused on the unline cast iron pipe that's 100 years old >> or more that's very thick pig cast iron so that you know it's got a lot of sacrificial sidewall depth on that.
>> Um you know when we when we get there and there's a lot of AC pipe in town that we'll replace somehow some other way. Um, and then you know, so a lot of our project, like I said, it's some of it's replacement, but some of it's also rehabilitation. So I expect we'll get 50 years out of that
pipe. You know, maybe the stuff that we're replacing, we should anticipate 100 years. But, you know, that's kind of general rule of thumb is you should be replacing 1% uh a year and that puts you on a, you know, 100 year uh 100 year life cycle.
>> Great. Hi, John. >> I had mine at my other meeting. >> Why didn't you bring it? >> Um, the other big project that you guys all know about that we've talked about for years is the PAP project. Um,
nothing has really changed in terms of the regulations or compliance dates. Uh, at that point, uh, we have been, uh, forging along with the design at the Lincoln Street Well, which that's the one that's, you know, most out of compliance. uh you know I guess it's not officially
out of compliance until 2029 but we will be uh at that point if we don't implement the treatment uh we did do all the pilot and bench scale testing last year um we are planning to do um actually we are out on the street for
qual right now for uh link tree wall we anticipate getting the general bids back the week before town meeting uh we did that on purpose just in case something crazy happens you know hopefully good but you know be uh you know in either direction. So obviously it's a big
number that um you know is going to probably command a lot of uh attention. So we're trying to get as much information as we can uh ahead of town meeting. Uh that being said, it's a very expensive project and prices have not tended to trend down since we've started this endeavor. Um you know this is a
look at the 90% OPCC. Um, you know, right now we're looking at 16 and a half million all in. About 12 of that is the construction. About four of that is procuring things in clever ways so we can try and save contractor markups. Uh,
as well as other uh oversight during construction as well as uh the integration of the controls and systems to make sure that the new plant talks to the existing plant and we can operate it remotely. and all of these types of
things. Uh, wastewater plant. Um, I assume we'll get back to PAS at the end as well, so we can blow on that later. >> Uh, you know, a couple years ago, we did uh approve the $4 million upgrade. Uh,
we have been working on uh the design for that. Uh, also um you know, when we had when we hired that consultant, they you know, went through all of our old plans and you know, to the plant. they came up with $8 million worth of uh project. So we've we've been working a
lot on how can we get the most uh for our money. Uh so you'll see here we have plant water system, clarifier, mechanical stuff. That's the big ticket item. Uh pump and valve replacements, electrical replacements. Uh those are kind of like what the 4 million will get us. Then we are waiting to hear back on
a GAP grant for about 400,000 which will help us with energy and process improvements and the aeration system. Uh, so that's, you know, that's like 10% of what the town approved. So, we're kind of waiting on that one. Uh, we also, uh, put in, you know, we wanted to get some flood proofing, uh, on that
project as well. We're waiting to hear back. We did apply for a eco stop CCM grant on that one. Uh, we we think we're in a good position to get that. We also included town hall and the fire station uh for some of those same flood proofing improvements which you know flood stop
barriers at the doors and you know line uh entry points. Uh and then again you know longterm we're probably looking at a much bigger wall uh or some sort of retreat from the existing location for the lease one place but that's not part of our current scope. Uh this is the
just so you believe me uh this is the $8 million estimate they gave me for the initial uh review of the plant central street culvert again uh just a quick update we're awaiting the final permitting uh we are uh awaiting funding confirmation you you all know about the
brick grant um we have requested an extension we were asked by MIMA to uh request the extension so we could keep the pressure on them to uh hopefully extend us uh and then We did uh apply also or we will next month for an MVP uh
grant. We hopefully will hear that July time frame. Um but I think you've seen we also anticipate a town article. So that will be kind of the backup for the backup on that one. >> Where are we where are we on the permitting? I know you're awaiting the final. What are we what's I feel that
we've heard this quite a bit. So the the hangup is the chapter 91 which unfortunately have to go first and then all the other permits are downstream of that. They won't approve you know army cooler and those types of things until we have the chapter 91 in hand. Um so we did receive uh what do you call it a uh
>> decision >> decision on the appeal of the chapter 91 that was in favor of the town. Uh there still is as of yesterday I think a seven business day appeal window for that uh decision. who knows their properties on the market.
>> We'll see. We'll see where that ends up. Um but um senior senator, >> another another thing that we uh that we did to try and put the pressure on all these agencies and you know the other cycle is we did uh uh bid a 30B
procurement for the pre-cast arches. Uh and we actually did receive a very good number back in that open bidding. Uh so we plan on executing that contract uh for the pre-cast arches. So um assuming that um you know we we get the permitting and everything, we'll have
the uh arches basically in town waiting for our contractor to install. >> So it will streamline that process even more once we get there. >> So you want to brick? >> Yeah. >> Uh we haven't decided which pot of money to dip into for that. I don't I think our intent would be to try and then that
would be another thing that brick would pay for even if it goes away they paid for it so we're good. Uh if not, we do have back up like I have below here, we have DOT funds. Uh that was a grant several years ago. We have the Noah fund and we do have some town appropriation outside of you know this coming uh town
meeting. >> Can So >> So you want to risk buying the arches before we have the permits? Is that what you're saying? >> Uh yeah, >> I don't think I'm risking it. I'm buying them because we know we're going to do it eventually. The permitting is not
going to change the pre-cast structure. >> Is this out of a budget you're going to request for this this year's budget or for >> No, except they're the the arches will be uh either paid for by brick before the brick expires. >> Okay. So, brick is okay.
>> No big no big deal. >> So, it's not a risk of town funds. >> No. Yeah. It'll be it'll obviously we're looking to spend the grants before we spend town funds on all of our projects. So that's that's the intent. Peter, did you have something?
>> No, no, I'm fine. I was just thinking about the permitting process, which I find slightly mystifying, but that's all right. >> Welcome. >> We can talk more about that. >> Well, I know chapter 90 precedes that
much I've learned over the years, but does is that a six I mean, suppose you get 91 six months to get everything else. So I'm trying to think of time frames. That's what I >> we actually the next one will be Army Corp. We have a meeting with them next week. Um so I think you know they all know they're coming whether it's Army
Corps or water quality or >> Yeah. >> But is that a six month period? Is that a year period? >> No. Should be should be much you know hopefully a few months already submitted. They just can't approve or condition until 911 comes in. >> They've done all their reviews. It's
like literally just waiting for that chapter 91 license to come through so they can put their stamp on their apartment. >> Okay. But I was just thinking at one point this project was I think critical yet done. >> Yeah. >> Um and I was wondering you know how much longer before it
>> well let's discuss that when we discuss the capital the projects and everything we'll discuss with capital. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It remains critical. It's just >> it's just a matter of, >> you know, that construction window and having funding and permitting at a
certain point ahead of that. We'll talk more about it when we come back. >> Please, I'd like that. >> Uh facility planning. So, as I said, we we do have a facility planning committee now. We've been meeting pretty regularly. We've done some tours. They did have input on the Lincoln Street well project. Uh we've been evaluating
the school street site where the black compost used to be. Um you'll remember in FY25 we did have a pretty substantial appropriation for geotech survey and preliminary DPW layout when it was envisioned as just a DPW site. So that
is done. So we spent that money and it you know we have done that work and it all you know conclusion what was the >> uh so the the geotech was was good you know we we know now what's below the below the ground surface but also we did geothermal evaluation so that was that
was fine. uh we have that information now for for the next consultant or um designer that you know we we choose. Uh the survey needed to be done no matter what. Um so we we've done all that. They did letman flagging all those sorts of things. Um we did do preliminary layout
like I said. Uh you know we can we knew we could fit a DPW up there but we we now kind of programmed it a little bit. the kind of the next phase that we're in with the planning committee as well as just um you know we we do have an appropriation for FY26 in this current year that we haven't spent any of yet.
Uh but that would be for uh you know now we're looking at can we make it some sort of a municipal campus whether it be DPW police and fire or some combination two out of three. Um so that's you know ongoing. We haven't made any decisions. There'll be lots more public input. I'm
sure we'll be back before you guys to talk about it. But that's that's what's that's what's ongoing. Uh and then the the hope is that we'll use the current FY26 appropriation to go to an RFQ for an OPM uh to help facilitate that not
only decision but uh you know kind of get into the real design and uh >> what's an OPM? >> Uh owner's project manager, right? So >> Andrea, what what are the consequences if we don't move forward with that component
>> with the >> required law? >> What? >> It's required by >> No, no, no. I'm I'm just saying if it were deferred. >> Oh, yeah. >> What happens to that money that we appropriated? I don't know what we appropriated whether it was cash or
right. >> It depends on whether we want to keep it like keep it going or you know >> was it cash or was it borrow? >> It was the >> No, it was cash. >> It was the exclusive. Oh, no. I changed that thing. >> What was it? >> Never mind. I let Adrian.
>> Yeah. I was say I'm gonna believe it was the borrowing. It's It was from cash. Whether it was taxation or a capital exclusion was not borrowing authorization. At one point it was the capital decision, but I think they changed it because they it went better to the school side of things. >> Yeah, we changed it to Essex Elementary,
>> so it could go back to free cash. >> Okay. Just checking. >> Um, >> was the um the geothermalist did that check for um radon >> or is that for energy source? It
>> look for energy for Yeah, it's for ground source. Ground source heat and cooling. interest. >> Uh and then under other I didn't really put any but you know we can talk about during capital but you know we do have other projects uh that we're helping
oversee whether it's the Sweeney field the ratunda harbor projects dredging uh any of those if you want to talk about those we can get into those capital. Um that leads us into kind of you know I
just basically took a screenshot of the report that Andrew had sent out earlier >> uh gets into the DPW operating from the general fund. Uh I think I was asked about uh you know kind of what are what
are we worried about for FY27 and I think you guys have talked about it before but it's definitely the trash hauling curbside program uh because we are at the end of that uh contract because we will be uh you know in for some market adjustments to say the least
on that one. Um >> everything else remains >> what's highway reduction in skilled labor. >> So we we actually had a uh retirement and this is this goes back several years
ago we had and this happened in water as well as highway we had uh you know kind of upcoming retirements that we were planning head on. So we hired the you know the lower entry level and then didn't backfill the upper entry level or not the upper entry but the the upper
retirement. Um and so that's the difference basically is last year we our operator retired uh and we had already hired a previous fiscal budget the you know kind of replacement. So our numbers even though they might go up or down one
basically one FTE a year are kind of the same over you know by the entire tenure >> and there's a reduction in the working out of classification. So that that's all contract related and we are in the midst of contract
negotiation but um that's generally in the last uh contract we did change uh the you know when when somebody's working out of class they're it's because somebody else is like on vacation or something like that and so
they move up into that home. That's >> assisted forment now is paid at that at a higher rate than it was out of class. >> Given that it's a reduction is is there a reduction in classifications contemplated? >> No, it's just it's it's covered in their
base salary not in it's in the base salary. >> Um where do we stand on that contract? ongoing >> have any sense of how long ongoing is? >> Well, we >> you
>> we've received we've received uh proposals from all three. >> Um we've had some discussion with those on the non-financial changes and we've basically been on hold on the financial
impact stuff because of health insurance. Actually today the GIC is was supposed to be voting on their plan structures and our health insurance plan is actually a bench is benchmarked to
GIC. So Maya said once after today they'll be able to give us more um details about possible plan structures and cost impacts of those structures. So, we've been waiting until today really. Hopefully, we get that
information in the next couple weeks and then we can really start to look at the financial >> side of the negotiations. >> So, I have reached out. We have been uh trying to get the existing public to
give us uh not only a contract but even a budgetary number >> sanitation. U any does anybody have any more questions on DPW highway? >> I have a question and it may be more for Andrea. I'm I'm going back to your
question Sarah about the skilled labor and it looks like one budget year you know we're 225,000 next year we're about 170 then we're back up again the next year to 240. >> What are the actuals looking like on
this? And and is unspent fund basically just going to free cash? >> Okay, >> it is. Yes. >> And is didn't he say it was because he was prehiring for retirements? So we double back in some of those. >> That's why it goes up and down basically
by one fulltime equipment. >> So we had two. >> So do you sort of anticipate this going forward as a technique? >> As long as we see it coming like we we do have still a few guys that you know are going to retire in the next five
years. But >> unless they both decide to retire in the same year, you know, I can't tell. So, it's I always shoot for 8% but wind up with 10. It's in the I'm always asking
rain water rolling downhill to >> the training curve to bring some I mean you you're pre-hiring for retirement because you want to train people in advance. What type of timeline is attached to that? >> Well, I mean most of the on the highway
side it's all kind of like on the job training like in town. >> How long does it take? elapse time. I'm saying >> yeah I mean well you know we have kind of cyclical duties so I'd say you know summer summer's different than winter winter is different than spring. >> Okay you fall
>> but I think the bigger one is on the enterprise side water and sewer both have to have licenses and you can't get people with licenses. >> So we have to hire somebody and then >> get them the licenses. So that's the one that would take a year a full year.
>> And the reduction in electricity is the reserve a function of the reserve you set up. >> Yes. >> I had a question. >> Um the professional services um what is
the specific skill we're looking or is that just a plug number? >> Uh well I mean I'm not sure what you mean. We we have several different things that come up over the course of the year that we might hire out. Um especially for for the highway side of things, it's
actually sometimes professional services isn't like hiring a consultant. It's hiring police details for um you know, different work that we are doing in the roadway that we don't want to you know we still get build for police details. That's not coming out of budget. >> So it's a catchall number
>> stuff like that. So like when >> we call a cash catch on >> well I mean it gets it's for a number of things but like so when on 2025 when we budgeted 50 and we spent 72 was that like reconciled at the end of the year
or how did we over >> well I would have I probably would have underrun some other line on that >> and okay >> level so like you know if if we are you know just for an example if it's vehicle equipment and repairs if we don't have 70 grand worth of repairs We only have
50, but I'm over 20 on professional services. Then, you know, it all comes down. >> It also looked like they saved on overtime. >> The overtime was about 9,000 less soon as budgeted. I mean, if you look at the actual for 25 versus the budgeted, the
actual the overall actual was less, >> right? And it's all we only vote for the bottom line. So, yeah. Okay. Okay. >> You know, I I track pretty closely the, you know, stuff like overtime and, you know, where we're trending on certain things. And, you know, this time of
year, it's, you know, we get done what we need to get done. But come spring, if I need to put the brakes on certain things that we were otherwise going to do that's not going to impact services, then we'll do it. >> And what is standby? >> Just not.
>> So, somebody will carry a take-h home phone. Uh and so if you know >> somebody hits a deer and we have to respond and you know take get the way then they get they get a 4hour call back >> right >> any other questions on
>> here I just have a question for Andrea um >> we don't see the actuals in the salary are the actuals the same as the budgeted >> right so I like in on my ledger I just track salaries and I do have a separate
line for overtime um but we don't have separate like account numbers in my world for like the standby out of class and things like that um >> so we can assume that the actual was the same as the budgeted for these prior >> right like if you look at the actual
total on the line I did put the total so for like FO25 um budgeted is 1 million73 but actual was 1 million59. >> Okay. >> So, I don't have it like specifically broke up for each line, but you can see what the difference is there. >> Good.
>> Anything else? >> Um, do I have a motion to approve the GPW highway budget in the amount of 1,51277? >> Second. >> Second. >> Any more discussion? >> But the um
>> Oh, sorry. That's the wrong number. 1548 37 right motions approve the DPW budget name 154837 yeah exactly >> withdrawing the prior motion >> second
>> any discussion quote Gar >> yes >> Dean >> yes >> Andy >> yes >> yes >> Peter >> yes and Sarah votes yes >> that's all we have to do as an individual
makes the snowy little fast right now. >> I guess how much that first >> 76. I'm hoping that maybe we'll have money left in the fincom reserve at the end of this year to be able to allocate some to snow more but the excess is rolled over
to next year. >> Right. >> And we expect next year to have a little more money than this year though. I think I've spent that little more money about 10 times. >> So should we recommend a little bit more for >> No, I I think we want to stay the course
of doing with our average. I think that next year we'll have to increase it because the average will go up. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You know, and to what Chuck was just speaking about, you know, as far as things that he might have planned for the spring that
he might pump the brakes on, what we start doing this time of year is looking at those projected endofear totals on the expense side. And maybe there's accounts like the reserve fund that or you know that'll that we
expect to have funds in it. So we'll start to kind of see if we're going to have enough to shift at the end of the year to cover the over the over expenses in something like snow removal. Uh, and if and if not, you know, we'll talk to
Chuck and other departments about needing to maybe pause on some projects that they were hoping to do in the spring to try to make sure we end the year at balance. So, we do we do that process over the next couple months. >> Okay.
>> Thought I have a motion to approve, but I >> I have a question on snow. Are we on snow roll? Yes. I can only guess that the equipment takes a hell of a beating with snow. Strikes me that $10,000 in that category must be on the light side. No.
>> True. Very, very much true. Especially this year. >> Maybe there's a strategy here I'm not aware of, but it just strikes me that >> Well, like I said, we do we do have in the operating budget, we do have vehicle repair. >> I'm sure you do. And so, you know, like Twice said, it's >> but given the flexibility of this
account and and way it's handled, I I didn't know whether that should be a a more real figure. I mean, >> well, I think that our our our theory behind the snow removal account was to base it on the prior what is it
five year average, right? >> Because it's the only budget we're allowed to exceed at the end of the year. and we went through many years where we were overbudgeting. Um, >> so I we don't see this as a realistic
for any given year. Some years it will run high and some years it will run low >> and this year 26 is running very low. >> Well, the flexibility that I was focusing on and the fact that I could only guess that vehicles 10,000 is is
low. Well, I mean that that first storm we lost three, you know, both sidewalk trackers at the lake plow. So that was big big deal. >> I saw some pickup truck being picked up at the gas station by recent >> like all the all the all the post office
trucks are on trailers. >> Not I mean the if you look at two of the past three years I mean that's not the three-year average that 10,000. >> It's a 5year average which is 135478. Oh, I was looking at just the equipment
repairs like individual >> the total budget. Yeah. >> I mean, I think our strategy go forward has always been we average over five years. And Andrea tells us what the state allows and then we set the number right around there and then if we go
high, we we make it up. >> So that way we're not just over budgeting. >> Years when we were over budgeting, right, >> consistently. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. And the Department of Revenue is like very >> very on top of this particular budget. Like I have to submit a SEM separate
report for the snow and ice because they want to make sure that like you're you're not overt taxing taxpayers either, you know, >> um too. So it can be hard to bump this up. So if we have >> unless we state guidelines make it hard to do that, right? Right. I was just
thinking that because of the flexibility in this account, I would thought it'd be more real. That would mean a substantial increase. You're right. And I I don't want to overbudget, but at the same time, it's deeply underbudgeted. So, >> just for this year, not necessarily
every year, but I think >> Well, because the amount of snow varies a great deal >> because I Yeah, I think the amount of hired equipment varies based on how large the storms are. >> So, if they Okay. have less hired equipment more for maintenance.
>> Good luck. >> Any more discussion on this budget? Do I have a motion to approve the snow removal budget 145,000? >> So moved. >> I have a second. >> Second. Second. >> June second. Any more discussion? Take a vote. Class,
>> yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Andrew, >> yes. >> Lori, >> yes. >> Keith, >> no. Sarah vote. Yes. >> Yeah. So, we continue on uh doing replacements of existing heads and holes
throughout uh tracking down repairs. I think that's the big thing we've seen over the last couple years is a lot of our lights are direct burial cable. So, it's just a wire in the ground. When that breaks, it's very hard to locate
and repair. Um, many times it requires us to basically install a conduit and then pull new wire. Um, so, you know, some of the street lights that are currently out are bigger repairs and like on bridge require DOT access as
well. Um, so the plan has really been we've been doing a spring and fall uh kind of bulk order of replacement poles and heads and then, you know, going out and installing and replacing as as we have, you know, to maximize budget.
>> So, are we spending more than we did grid on lights? >> Um, yeah. Yeah. Just because we I think >> the savings didn't come to fruition >> only on electricity.
>> Yeah. Yeah. On electricity. We just because we bought the system, we bought a an old system that is now needing to be replaced. Um fortunately, >> and what percentage are we now accomplished in replacing the old system?
I don't have that number, but so it's it's mostly on the post tops, uh, which we have about a hundred in town. We've probably done 25% of those >> to date. Can we have some input on the
types of light poles because the the ones that you have with the new LEDs, the glare is like I don't know if it's my eyes getting older, but they seem like they're offensive. Uh, I know people like light. They're adjustable. >> The head. The heads. But the old style
poles that we used to have, there's a couple over the park. They just point down and they like >> Okay. Well, >> I don't know if there's consideration before you order a bunch of them that if anyone wants to change >> right outside my bedroom. That doesn't
bother me at all. >> Granted, >> maybe I'm up higher than the head. I know you can dim them if you want, right? You can request to have them dim. >> Yeah, correct. >> Right. >> But I was just wondering the whole design with the outdoor light pollution thing and everything.
>> That's another meeting Dean. >> Yeah. No, but to to speak to that, we have selected, you know, when we did the replacements and what the lights that we do select, we um we do select a warm color, >> right?
>> That minimizes that really obtrusive like bright white. Um the LED does tend to skew that you know so it is so we have selected the lowest the warmest color that we get. >> Yeah.
>> So for fixing these have you guys been mostly doing this yourselves and calling in an electrician and doing conduit. Yeah. >> I guess my question is other communities must be wrestling with this. Is there somebody, you know, replace light poles.com that can come in and just like
take this off your plate and get it done? >> Um, I mean there are we have worked with the other municipal light uh towns to and have had them come in do some work. Um, you know, some we handle ourselves if we can do the excavation, do the light base. Um, and then we'll have our
electrician come in and wire it. Um it's kind of a mixed bag depending on locations and you know bandwidth for our guys. If we have, you know, the availability, that's the preference because it doesn't cost us, >> right?
So, >> it depend also depends on the light, the lights that you're dealing with, as you mentioned, the um >> underground direct berry compared to, you know, just a head that's on a >> telephone pole that's owned by the
utility company, that's easy to replace that head, >> right? But when it when you own the entire pole head and the underground, you know, wire and there's a lot of coordination that has to happen with national grid there that would that really slows us down
>> that we're not allowed to touch without >> uh them being a part of that process. So it's not very high on their list either. So >> they've already made their money on us. >> Yeah. >> And and is this totally a replacement focus as opposed to an expansion? Are we
adding any lights? >> Um, we typically don't haven't added lights. Yeah. So, it's just >> just replacement modernization. >> Yeah. >> Is that a need of ours to consider? >> Occasionally I get requests. Um,
>> I've heard a few of those requests. I don't know how. I mean is that part of the focus as we >> I mean it hasn't just because like once you start to get into the cost of you know that conduit to extend them especially if there's not any adjacent like they're adjacent then it's probably
not a request it's usually on a you know I've had request for cold road >> you know that would be a very expensive endeavor to run >> like so we try and like >> so it's like a balancing >> if like for example tap end like at that
point when we're doing a full depth roadway reconstruction and all utilities like we may elect to add one or two but it'll be $4 million project. We're not going out and just saying here's here's a couple lights that's possible. So we we do kind
of set expectations when we get those calls, but sometimes we get those calls. >> We might want a policy on like whether we have it at a crosswalk or street corner, you know, is required, but other than that, it's kind of optional after that. But anyway,
there might be some >> to justify expanding or adding long coarative, >> right? discussion on street light. Do I have a motion to approve your street leg budget,000?
>> You do. So move. >> Second. Second. >> Second. Any more discussion? Oh, car. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Whoops. I went backwards sanitation >> meeting the big wild card until tomorrow we'll get a budget number. Uh they said by the end of the month we'll have a proposal that's from our existing uh vendor public near and dear to our heart after the
strike this summer. Uh but um you know they they did take over the contract from JRM. JRM five years ago when we bid the the project was the low bidder. Uh but they JRM kept their pricing flat for the entire five years and Republic honored that. So I'm sure they're going
to be looking to not only increase over a current year but also you know get back those five years of escalation. And >> where is the automated collection system reflected in any way in these numbers? So, if we go with Republic, they're
going to require that we go to audit. They'll give us one year to get there, so we don't have to do it on July 1, but uh it will be it will be what we do. >> So, it's a next year item. >> Um but that's not um you know, atypical
like that's the industry is going that way. >> Okay. >> Um >> can you give me some sense of what that magnitude of that replacement number would be? I >> for the barrels. >> Yes, I think that's what you're saying. >> Yeah, I think it it would be in the ballpark of $100,000
um >> for purchasing them outright. There are grants and stuff that are available and we do have RDP money. So, that money that we get from D based on how good we recycle uh in the course of the year. So, we have some, you know, different
funding that will offset uh but it'll be buried in the cost of the >> No, I understand that. But I was just looking for what that additional amount, >> right? >> That's kind of the magnitude you're thinking about. >> Yeah. To that's to purchase the stuff. We're we're looking at escalation just for >> Oh, no, no. I I got it. There's a
difference here. But how many year how many residences do we collect from? >> So the curbside program is townwide and that's about uh >> 2,000 >> 2,000. That's number I keep in my back pocket is probably more like 2,200 something like that. So for $100,000 it
would be about $50 per >> residence. Is that >> that's cheap? >> That is cheap. >> Boy, this is surprising. >> The arithmetic is >> one for one. >> That's probably just that's probably one
>> of the barrels, but we're talking you're it would be recycling and trash. >> Two barrels. >> Probably be both. Yep. But hopefully, you know, depending on the type of barrels you go with, you could have them fully funded by grants.
>> Oh. >> Uh you could also finance them through your contract with your hauler. So, there's there's different ways to do it. It it's it's extremely there's a lot to that discussion and we haven't we
haven't gotten into it yet. I did do it in my last town on the trash on the uh on the recycling side. So familiar with it. Um hopefully you know we get this one year next year the time to really look at
what our options are. >> And the other is the eccentricities of our streetscape and whether or not an automated >> can get to all of these places. Yeah, I mean
>> they they so Republic or whoever we end up contracting with um will do that analysis and they'll either have automated trucks available for our schedule or they will go out and
purchase trucks that make sense for their schedule. Um, we had some narrow streets in Na and they actually uh brought in a very a smaller like a mini dump truck uh trash truck that had the
automated collection hand on it. >> Or they'll adjust their contract for the number of households that they need two guys to collect. >> Just dump the barrels. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, so have you requested to
many other entities? >> Not yet. >> You're waiting to see what Republic gives you? >> Are we are we still looking at two-day collection if it goes automated? >> I believe so. Um, that's that's the instructions I gave them so that they
know that. But >> I've been behind pickup on my commute to Cambridge. Um, and uh and the ones that are automated go much more quickly. So yeah, potentially they would they have to do that analysis dictate to them.
>> And is it recycling also that it goes automated? >> Yeah, they they want both. They don't want a second person on the truck. >> Makes sense. >> So Chuck, this budget and its new numbers reflects a system the way we now have.
>> Well, we make this year's possibly year's transition. >> So I didn't just make this number up. I did look at we have from D a list of haulers uh from you know basically all over the state. Um so they so I basically took those numbers and look for communities similar to ours size and
you know the number of households and basically tried to make the best guess >> but it's still a two-day collection. It's still >> so like the the closest one to us is Pfield. They're three-day uh but so I kind of did the math and >> and there's still bags and bags and all of that.
>> No bags >> but that's in the in the year's transition. I'm asking that's a this is a budget for the year's transition. So there's not a change in the system. That's all I'm trying to ask. >> Right. >> Doesn't go automated as of July 1, >> right? It will go automated July one.
>> We still continue to do what we do today. >> We could elect to do that. Like I think if if they're giving us a year to get there, that first year is going to be more expensive based on the fact that we're not dup. Yes. So if we if we could commit to
saying we will do it July one, we might get a slightly better price. >> No, it's not the question. Two people on the truck price. >> This is I I think >> invest based on separate community analysis. >> You're going to have to put a hold on this budget because this isn't a true budget number,
>> right? Okay. Well, I I'm happy to have it held. I was just trying to get an idea in that year. you just you have today's system but so today >> this this is just looking at other community contracts and trying to apply
that compare that percentage comparison to our previous our most recent contract year. So it doesn't this doesn't factor in change in plan, you know, structure. >> That's all I'm asking. This is not a change in structure plan.
>> No, this is this is a this is a best guess. >> Yep. >> Uh but hopefully we have a more a re a closer number to uh from Republic this week, you know, tomorrow. M >> well I'm picking up on the trend like
between 24 and 25 if the rates were the same then the tonnage must have gone down quite a bit. Is that a trend that you're seeing continue or >> I think this might be a dumpster. >> Yeah that's stuff they didn't collect. >> The stuff they didn't collect one year. >> So
>> okay >> there's kind of a placeholder within the budget for >> Gotcha. So okay. >> So so it's really got >> I mean they collected it. They didn't charge us. >> Right. Right. Okay. >> Got a question. >> Changing vendor. >> Uh, is the first year going to be more
expensive because you got the barrels in there? >> But starting the second year, you don't have the barrels. >> So, like all this is yet to be determined because right they we could elect I mean they're going to give us a whole bunch of different models. And so one could be that it's straight just two guys on the truck for the first year,
but by July one of the following year we're 100% automated. um it's more likely that it'll be, you know, over a series of months that we'll get there. So, we'll have different pricing basically per month that we're on the automated than we as we transition to the >> and and I think what people have to
remember is we're going to lose over 300,000 in revenue from the sale of the orange bags. >> So, I would say that still the cost of >> getting to be determined as well. It's like you how do we replace that? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, like there's going to be several
different elements of this number that need to be accounted for based on the proposals that we get from Republicans. >> I just don't know whether they cost barrels over the life of the contract. >> No. So, we we definitely could. They they will do that 100%.
>> Or we can say, you know what, we have enough grant funding or we can get our own grant. So, we're not going to, you know, pay Republic for that privilege of them selling us barrels. We'll just get the grant and go that direction. So, it's completely separate. >> And is this subject to open bidding or
>> uh it doesn't it's not required. You're not required to bid uh collection or trash. >> A lot of towns still do it themselves. We we talked a little bit about this when we had our joint meeting with the select board. Um we'll talk a lot more
about it in the upcoming year. There could be a fee a fee element in this new structure. A lot of those details are >> to be figured out. I saw that in Chuck's memo and you know my opinion is we
should not charge a fee and nickel and dime people particularly because real estate taxes are deductible at the federal levels and fees are not. >> So it would cost people a lot more to
pay a fee to cover the same cost than it would cost them to pay in real estate tax if they get a federal deduction. >> Right? So they're not getting a deduction on what they pay for bags today. >> Yeah. But bags you're only paying for the amount of trash you have. Whereas
under the new system, everyone's going to be paying the same amount. >> Well, >> and so if I have trash once a month, that's not going to be reflected in the new system. >> So again, uh before you make before you, uh before we get it too far ahead,
>> y >> we still have the transfer station. So there still may be a need for bags. Um you may get your trash barrel and recycling barrel for free through, you know, we get it through the grant or something like that and then if you wanted a second barrel, you might have
to pay a fee for that. So there's a lot of different ways to structure it and it's going to be a long discussion when we get there. >> I think the sustainability committee has a lot to put into it, too. they have a lot of input about discarding
>> and then the other you know the other costsaving so you have cost savings with less labor by doing automated collection but the other cost savings on the tonnage side so especially where sustainability committee comes in is finding ways to really push composting
because that's the heaviest material in >> in your in the waist stream. But if we can shift to a free service that we get as residents here um and push composting, it'll also reduce our our
total cost at the end of the year. >> I'd like to make it totally free and just have the residents bring the compost to the site instead of having them collect it. Well, I >> it seems costly for the >> a lot of details to be discussed over
the next year. >> Um, so I'm suggesting that we not vote on this part of the budget since we don't have a solid number for the collection disposal. Do people agree with that? >> Very much so.
>> And we shouldn't have it. Shortly. Yeah, shortly. Would be a couple of weeks or >> they committed to a budget number by tomorrow and a proposal by the end of >> Great. >> Yeah. So, we should >> Good. >> We're um going to do catch up
on budgets like on March 5th. >> 25% seems like a good placeholder. Now, >> facilities Uh so I think the big one is moving library
into our under DPW. Um I'd say the big thing we did last year was you know we've been having a hard time controlling HBAC preventative maintenance costs you know through firms. Um, so we went out and
hired an HVAC tech to be part-time on call for the town. Um, so he's been able to take over all the servicing, preventative maintenance tasks for all of our buildings. Um, which has been a
huge savings uh, comparatively uh, to what we were seeing prior. Um, and he's also been able to do um, you know, some installs on new systems. the heat pump system at Seaside One. We've also done one at uh the wastewater treating plant.
Um we have one planned for the fire department for the new bunk rooms. Um and then when we do the ADA bathroom at the library and we have to um relocate Cynthia uh office upstairs, we're going have to renew that system as well. So he'll be,
you know, doing all of that work. So it's been a huge uh I think plus for on that side. >> It might be singlely the biggest thing we've done since we've had facility. Like this is this is not a joke. Like we have done more work and gotten more done by doing this approach that I could have
ever imagined and that we would we would we wouldn't have been able to do uh by going out to bid and you know doing general bidding and procurement loss. Um so it's >> so this is an in-house person. >> Yeah. part-time, who has a full-time job, uh, who just is doing it as a side
hustle and is is great. Uh, very responsive, very professional, very good. >> So, why are the facility sales increasing so much? >> Well, that's just because of that. >> Because of that, >> but we didn't we didn't have that budgeted in last year's budget. >> So, what we've been doing to bridge the
year is we've been tracking his time and like like Nate said, we've been doing work at the wastewater plant. We've been doing work at the fire station. So, we've been basically planning a transfer within the lines on those various items, but next year we would hope to have it
be in the facility's budget. >> Um, what's the status of the town hall generator? It seems to me that that was approved a long time ago and then I saw the town hall had to close when they lost electricity. So, that said to me, oh, I guess we don't need
new generator yet. generator. >> Yeah. Yeah. The generator is just undersized. When we really got into everything that would, you know, be required to fully uh, you know, have this building on and elevate it to above
the flood plane like we did at the fire department. We just the budget wasn't there. Um, so that's where we've looked into utilizing the wastewater treatment plant generator and basically doing that as a campus generator.
um and trying to tie in this building off of that one. Um >> does it have the capacity? >> Yeah, the wastewater treatment plant one does. Yep. >> So, that's what I suggested with the library one too. Correct. >> Yeah. And so that that was something we
analyzed and the cost benefit, you know, so it was actually more in materials to do the duck work and the conduit >> up to the library than it was for the actual cost of the library generator. Uh because we had Yeah, this one's just >> we had to go to a 150 kW generator. I
think we have like a 40 out there right now. >> And that's just to support all of because we have the full electric pumps. >> Yeah. >> It has to be so oversized to meet peak demand. Um and then it was the, you know, the platform that we were going to
put it on to raise it five feet. You know, >> power outage. Don't you want to just have certain essential facilities powered? I mean, you don't have to have the whole building going. >> Well, if you want employees to work >> Well, I mean,
that was the intent. >> Have a 24hour that you need in a >> employees for 24 hours when they weren't working. >> Plus, it's the police. So, >> right. That's the bigger. >> Yeah, that is a big problem. >> So, what's the status of the money
previously appropriated? so long ago. I can't even remember. >> Yeah, >> it's probably too weird, but who knows? >> N What fuel does it operate on? The the town home. >> Diesel. >> Yeah. >> As is the typical
diesel gas. >> Yeah. Well, natural gas is considered >> natural gas. What we did at the fire station at the library. >> And how many days could it run? >> How much diesel would it >> this one? I believe we get 72 hours at,
you know, if it's in the summer it can go longer. If it's winter, not quite as long, but >> over at the >> wastewater plant. >> Yes. >> I don't know that one off the top of my head, but it's that's a big tank.
>> Above ground, too, right? Is it Is it below ground or above ground? >> The tank is like integrated into the enclosure that you see. >> Wow. I would think it was >> it's like the belly tank. >> Wow. >> Did you find anything? >> Yes, we have um 79,000 outstanding right
now. >> It's unspent. >> Yeah. >> And when was that appropriated? >> 100,000 was appropriated in FY23. >> I thought it was a long time ago. So, we spent $60,000 on a generator that's a
little not as big as we'd like it to be. Is that right? >> What do you mean? >> No, I'm Maybe I'm No, we haven't replaced it. >> Oh, we haven't replaced it. Okay, >> but we're looking at they're looking at design and >> Okay.
per >> study. >> Um, is it big enough to pick up the senior center >> the wastewater treatment plant? Yeah, we also >> that that was part of Yeah. >> Okay. Just wanted >> and that one does need to be replaced
too. So, we're keeping >> the waste water is an So, the existing generator is has a capacity to do these other things. So the the existing size um you know and that's that's kind of a function of the fact that the stuff at the tree plant's been so oversized >> and part of our project is actually
right sizing that stuff and making it more efficient. So like there's several levers that we pulled at the wastewater plant so that the existing one is kind of that much bigger than it needs to be. Got it. >> But by being that much bigger than it needs to be, it can also serve senior center and kind of >> and is there a timeline attached to
that? >> We won't pay for it. Well, it's funny. >> 10,000. >> Well, we already paid. >> That's a That's a big one. It's going to be 34 million probably, right? >> Connect it. >> No. Well, >> donkey connect.
>> Yeah. To connect it in. I think we're potentially looking at this spring. We can do the >> Okay. >> You know, basically the replacement of the wastewater one. We can we can do that work, but it still needs to be replaced sooner rather than later. >> We have the three and a half million processed water. Can we make a part of
that? And just >> we already heard that they don't just they're not going to scope >> for the process water. >> Yes. >> More than just process wire. It's like >> well that was the main thing that we're trying to fix because of the leak. >> We have justified it was more important
to fix that than the meters. >> Please stop talking. That's just not just >> So just to understand this, we have this generator sitting down here that's too small. was the plan to basically abandon that wire into the sewage treatment. And when do we really hope to get this done?
I mean, I I'm concerned when you've got a building full of employees trying to work in Stark. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, particularly if we have money in hand for four years, five years plus. So, >> we're saying we can tie it in. >> He said 23, which tells me 22.
>> 2022 and we're 2026. I think that's four. Sorry. >> Right. just backing you up. >> So we we think we can tie it in Yeah. >> this spring or sooner rather than later, but the the stuff we've done in the interim is we looked at it for library
fire >> senior center. >> Senior center. >> There's been things that we've done. It's just this is where we are. >> Yeah. Like we went out and got a grant to when we're looking at raising it. So like just kind of things that just
delayed it as we got into it more like to do all the transfer switches and everything we needed internally. It wasn't enough wall space within the existing equipment room. So it was like one of those things once we opened the can of worms it just like >> they exploded, you know, it's just
>> everything that we've >> No, we've we've increased the electrical capacity of this building significantly and that's Yeah. >> Um it just it occurs to me that when when the generator is most likely needed and you have a power outage, the police
are going to be pretty active and the need for electricity is high. >> Right. Right. And so that and then it the existing does. That's what it serves them and emergency lighting throughout the rest of the building. >> Right. >> And town hall is kind of the only 24 hours a day if you need.
Okay. Any more discussion on facilities? >> Do I have a motion to approve the facilities budget in the amount of 194,654? >> So moved. Second. >> Mory moves. Got a second. Is any more discussion? >> Vote.
>> Yes. >> Dean. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes, >> Peter. >> Okay. Yes, >> Sarah. Yes, >> that's it for correct operating. >> Oh, water and sewer. Thank you.
>> Enterprise >> 72 is not water. Let's see what can be order of operations. Again, this is part of the union negotiations for salaries for both sewer
and water when we get there. But everything else is fairly level budget. skilled labor went up quite a bit or is that just the percentage? Is that just the normal percentage? >> No, it's very an anomaly um that skilled
labor is like been getting 5% every year. >> That's a lot of answer. >> So, can you remind us again? I don't think it's >> No, you hire new people and then they go up the steps and that stuff is more than a cola.
>> Is it one guy or is it a bunch of guys? the on the sewer side is two. So there% >> Yeah, there's uh the chief operator, the assistant chief, and then two skilled laborers. So it's staff for four staff.
>> John, can you remind us again? Um I know there's a whole bunch of permit um trained skill levels and and we have Woodward and Curran, right? That's on water. >> That's water. Okay. >> These are these are Union town employees.
>> Okay. Thanks. All 400. Why Why is uh the grade the senior account clerk grade? >> Yeah. Um when I was um breaking out these salaries, I thought I realized that one of my formulas was bringing in FY26's salary number, not FY27.
So I updated it for this. Right. >> It's a manual. >> Right. So that might be why skil labor looks more is because there's actually two of them. So if each of them gets a two and a half percent like the bottom line is bigger but they're not it's not one person getting a $6,000 raise.
>> No, but it is 4.7% not 2.5%. >> Right. And so that would be associated with this the steps with the electricity adjustment again the reserve. >> Yeah. We had originally um taken that down, but then we realized like you know
sewer has its own funding source. So if we were to pay sewer electricity out of the general fund um so then we ended up putting it back. >> That's why it's green. >> This is significantly higher than the actual for 2025.
>> That was a happy hollow I believe. Right. >> Yes. >> So, it's running closer to the 90,000 in 2026. Okay. >> So that's the that's the big push that we're the most electric intensive
processes we have at the trying to make those right size first of all so they're not you know pull the pump in and then also trying to make them more efficient. Any questions on the enterprise sewer budget? >> Yeah, go ahead.
>> Well, the broader brush question, um, our receivables were like quite a bit higher than the expenses and what is being done with that funky. >> So, that was a couple years ago, we talked about the rate structure of the
sewer. where this coming fiscal year, we will raise the rate again. Uh that'll be year three of a three-year plan. And that is to offset the bond when it comes due because this has to be paid for 75% by the enterprise fund which has to be
on the rate. So we are rather than do it all 25% in one swoop, we've done 7 and a half% over what will be a three-year period. >> So if we're saving it every year, we won't need a bond. We'll have the money. It will pay the what? It's already
>> pay the debt service but not the total amount of the project. >> Well, if we're s if we're netting a hundred 500,000 a year and it's a $4 million job, that's not many years. >> I think we're netting 500,000 a year,000.
>> I only had two years to go on, but one year was 1.3 million and one year was 500,000. >> And also as part of our ongoing capital, right? um our like ongoing annual maintenance we usually take from whatever we've um received,
>> right? But that would be in the expenses, right? >> But it's separate. It's separate from the operating. >> Well, the capital budget they sometimes allocate a portion out of the enterprise funds. >> That has been past practice and that's what we're asking for again this year as
well. It >> is. >> And that'll be under the capital part. >> Correct. Chuck, just a more general question. Is the amount of material it's moving through this plant pretty consistent year to year? Are you seeing it go up or
down or not? Like water? >> We've been pretty stable uh since we've done most of the lining work. Uh we are starting to see an uptick a little bit in what we anticipated >> in the system, but uh it's been actually pretty stable in between four and 500,000 gallons a day, you know, on a 12
month average basis. Wisely, we do get storms. you see the the uptick on a on a daily basis, but over a 12-month rolling average, we're pretty consistent. >> Question, how where do we stand versus capacity now? >> How's that trend been going? And
>> so, our permit is for 670,000 gallons a day. Uh the number I just gave is about we're between four and 500. I think honestly right now I think we probably have 450. >> Yeah. >> So, we're about 220,000 gallons a day below our permit. What's that permit about?
>> 670,000 gallons of dying. >> What's our plant capacity though? Is it more than that? >> So, right now it's extremely oversized. I would say like the average day uh capacity is like >> 1.2. >> So, it's like almost double what >> million.2 I think,
>> right? And so that's why we say like a lot of the project that we're doing is you know right now we have three outrageously sized influent and effluent pumps uh that are size to meet that peak of 5.3 MGD even at one which is a third
of that 5.3 that's more than what we see on a regular day >> and so like this is 247 operation so like we can't we can't make it work so it's basically what happens is the pump is oper operating way out on its curve which makes the pump wear and tear cavitation like there's just a whole
downstream effect of that. So this this project is right sizing all of that stuff. >> So is that a reflection of the original basis of design just being flawed? >> Yeah. So 25 six seven years ago when they built the plant there was no III wasn't a thing that you worried about.
You just size the pumps for it. Now we it went the other way. We have to take all that II out of the system and so now all of our pumps that were sized for it are oversized. Got it. >> It's not isolated to us. Like even Deer Island >> is oversized for what they're seeing now
in flows. >> So >> that's a good It's just concerning that if the plant's only at half capacity, why it has so many odor problems still? >> That actually >> that's actually part of the problem >> because everything's oversized.
We're we're putting in too much air into the Asia bas that's it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Do you know where the INI problems are generally are? I mean I know >> basically >> right now Tap Street. >> Okay. >> Yeah.
>> But yeah, there we we do know there there's few >> I know you've done a lot of work on on uh >> we should do the pipes on tap. >> I agree. Maybe better after. >> Um, any more discussion on the sewer
enterprise sewer budget? Do >> I have a motion to approve the enterprise sewer budget in the amount of 1,ion429588? >> Move. Is a second. >> Second. >> Second. >> Second. Any more discussion?
>> I'm just I'm confused. I'm looking at the Enterprise sewer and I'm seeing 705,566. It >> did go on a second page. >> Yeah, it's on a second. Sorry. >> Oh, that's >> which are the sewer indirect
>> indirect% of the actual >> and the capital listed on the second page. That's not in the capital. But what is that capital? >> Are you talking about the 200,000? >> Yeah.
>> Yes. So that's that's um I put that in there just to show the total amount of increased revenue. So that I'm taking 200,000 of revenue that I expect to come in next year. And then when you go to the capital, you see a column for the 200,000 and then also a column for 400,000 of retained earnings of money
that we received previously. So I include this 200 there just so you can see what we expect for an increase in the sewer total. >> So we voting for that twice. >> Once in the operating budget and what's in the capital
>> kind of. >> So can we take it out of this budget? >> You could want to do it. >> I sp it out. Yeah. Still a little confused why it's here, but I That's right. But get from current
year's revenue rather than fund. >> Yeah, I got it in the price. >> Okay. So, um I will do I have an amended motion? >> Yes. >> To approve the the sewer budget in the amount of 1 million >> 229,58.
>> Yes. So, >> moves. I have a second. Second. >> Second. Any discussion? Go. >> Yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Peter, >> yes.
>> Sarah, >> water. So, here you see the still there. We only have one in the water department. Uh but again subject to the same union negotiations for all all three of the theft. Uh this one you'll see on the next page I believe the uh wood and
current contractor asked about. So that's that's where that's kept for the treatment plant operators. The distribution system guys are on the towns now. section. >> When is the Woodward incurring contract
up? >> Uh, so the way we did that one was it was a it's a three-year contract with the ability to uh extend it to separate threeyear nine-year contract.
>> Uh, so I think we're in year five. At one point we talked about contemplating putting it in house and we decided not to do that because of the level of skills needed. Is that correct? >> Right. Uh so it it just be it'll be very
hard to us to uh get a chief operator and an assistant and be able to um you know maintain operations and maintain continuity. Um, it's definitely still on my thought process, but it's definitely
very premature to >> It's not really full-time work, though. They come in like three times a week maybe or >> No, they're they staff it seven days a week. Uh, they just they they do have because it is a pretty high-tech plant, uh, they have the ability to monitor offsite, >> right?
>> Um, and so that's actually something that needs to be approved by D and you know, all those types of things. Uh it is worth noting that when we do complete the treatment plant upgrades at Lincoln Street for the PAS removal, uh D may uh
we don't know yet uh require us to add a third person uh to the operations of the treatment system. So uh at that point we would either need to pay what current to provide that third person or potentially
uh we could try and find that person and have them be a town employee. So that would be that would be my hope and I think that might be the beginning of a transition over several year period. >> Is that a different certification for the third? >> So they they would still be the primary
and the secondary but we would need another staff person. So similar to what you see on the distribution side we have the primary distribution operator the secondary and then we have a skilled labor. So it's it's essentially the same thing. The skilled labor and the water side has the license but they're they don't have that role.
Will will that plant have a um storage for the hazmat of the activated carbon with the PAS like in the flood plane? >> So when when we decide to uh reactivate the carbon or take it off site, it'll just be trucked off site.
>> It won't be it won't be kept on site. >> Okay. So when you change it out, it'll just go right out. >> That's got to be an expense down the road that we don't have. That building we'll contract out and we'll handle soup to nuts. So they'll bring it in, take it out,
>> handle the disposal or recharge of it. >> So could you talk to me a little bit about the expense changes? Um just some of the background here of the vehicle proper some some different different experience you're having.
I'm not 100% sure I'm under water the differences. 8,000. >> So it's just zero. >> You're saying from actual to the vehicle expenses. >> So it's just no percent change. >> Oh, I'm sorry. It was green. Those are
those are green because >> that was one of the first revisions. >> Um >> Oh, yeah. Changed. >> The green as though that was a change. It's not >> children. Yeah. >> Yeah services that that's the order current.
>> Got it. So, you know, like everything, you know, the cost of uh employees cost of labor has increased and so they're passing that on to us. So, that's that's why it's been one >> is negotiated based on the CPI.
>> Is it part of the contract based on the CPI? I'm curious if you're um there's a thing on the public radio I think today or yesterday about people not going into the water field. Are you feeling that or do you
anticipate that being an issue going forward in the >> It's an issue right now. We So we have a secondary operator by Winter Current who actually moved on. We went to Cambridge so he's working at Cambridge now. So we're in current is out of open reo to hire that position for Manchester haven't been able to find. So they've
had to backfill that from other uh plans that they operate but we have had the same coverage but we do not have the dedicated person. >> Interesting. >> And what's causing that? People aren't going into the field but >> they're going into other stuff like
whatever >> AI water jobs will be eliminated. >> Well, you know, it's always this what what are we going to be looking at five years, you know, get in front of stuff like that. So it is part of the current union negotiation and it's something we
already have in the existing one is you know having some of our guys on staff right now cross trainin and get those licenses and get an extra you know stipen or paid in their in their pay and then to me that's the bridge but we haven't been able to really realize that
yet >> is the bridge. Any more questions on the enterprise water both pages >> and Andrea the uh the change in say
something like group health insurance that's a good even though we don't know what those numbers are going to do that shouldn't hold this budget >> I would >> it's a good number yes >> will you go back and adjust that number. Do you plan to adjust it?
>> Right now, I don't believe we'll need to change that number. Um, if we do, I will. >> That reflects the 15%. Yes, >> we're at >> Will the surplus between the expenses and billables go towards paying down the water meter bond,
>> right? I think the excess right now is from the capital fee. >> I had my water meter replaced today. >> You did. >> Took him 10 minutes. They're officially five grand. >> They fly. >> They bill you anything. They're billing me.
>> One minute. >> 20. But two of them. One was this >> on the stair. >> Yeah. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but we we're over a thousand installs right now. So, we're we're making pretty good progress. I hear
>> No, they are very pleasant. >> It's very it's very positive. Yeah. >> Yeah. Any changes on consumption or >> not that we could tell yet? >> Finding a lot of leaks though. >> People swear up and down there's no leak. >> Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Like, stop the
meter and lo and behold, they'll go check a toilet that they don't use or a hose. >> Not great. >> So, you are you contacting people or are they finding it in the app? >> Sue is. Yeah. So, Sue is actually both ways. We have people come in that have signed up and have the app and say it
says I have a leak and I know I don't have a leak and then we'll go on and look and oh you have a leak and then they find it and then or the other way you know some people you know they're not responding or you know they haven't called us yet and like just so you know you have a leak you know you might want to check toilets. We'll do it both ways,
but um I thought so in comments. >> Oh, thank you. >> I'll make a motion to approve the water department budget in the amount of 2,824,947. >> 1,395.
Sorry, the 2 million8 is both sewer and water. >> Okay, let's not do that. >> Got a little more expensive very >> Let me start over. I'll make a motion to approve the water budget in the amount of 1,149,838. Still not
>> that. >> It's the line above the 2.8. >> All right. Somebody else. I move we uh do1,3953 $359. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Seconds. Any more discussion? Vote. Car. >> Yes. >> Dean. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Lori, >> yes. >> Peter, >> yes. >> Yes. Okay. Thank you for keeping Town Hall in common. Oh, I see. I'm in
the section that you handed out. That's why this is out of order. >> Town hall in common. >> Page 38 of you. >> Is that part of DPW? I'm wondering if you're >> So, don't we want to talk about maybe
DPW Capital? >> Thank you. >> Sorry. >> DPW Capital. Now, one thing I wanted to get input
from the finance committee on is with respect to the rotunda. Um, I was at a CPC meet
and they haven't voted, but they may have 250,000 cash this year to add to the retunda project. >> That might 350. >> I haven't gotten there yet.
Um, at a prior meeting, um, there were concerns raised regarding the 200,000 for the affordable housing trust in the CPC budget. The finance
committee suggested to Jack, you should reduce it to the 60,000 a year. The question I have is if the CPC and the affordable housing trust
were amanable to reducing the 200,000 to a 100,000 and having that extra hundred,000 go to the rotunda for 350 for the rotunda. Is it likely the finance committee would support that
100,000 to the affordable housing >> instead of the 60 >> instead of 60? >> Yeah. Um I mean is that something people I mean >> we have not been
contrary we have for the past number of years we've supported what the CPC has put forward and we've run into this stumbling over the affordable housing trust which I understand um and so one of the suggestions was that maybe they
could do the hundred,000 and put the extra hundred for towards the rotunda and so I thought I might just get a sense of the board to see. >> Sounds reasonable to me. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Remind me where we are then on the
rotunda. >> Having all this discussion I'm afraid I'm a little bit lost. So we have a previous 1.3 >> right >> now we have 1 potentially 1.4 >> 2.3. You know, we would have another 350 1.6.
>> Oh, 350. That's right. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Which would reduce the amount of the bond >> to two >> to two >> to two million. >> Two million. Thank you. That's what I needed. >> When I looked at what you gave us, Andrea,
on the debt payment stuff, >> it seemed like the full bond was not going to kick in to the rotunda until fiscal year 28. the price goes up. >> I I think one of the questions we have
particularly on the rotunda is the timeline for the construction. >> Yeah. Because if the construction goes in beyond June 30th of 2027 and we don't bond it till the next
fiscal year, that might give us the ability to get another cash donation >> from CPC if it's before we actually issue the bond. Right, Andrea? >> Right. >> And so wondering what the timeline is on
that construction. Yeah, I mean ideally we would be going starting construction this fall, >> go through the winter and be completed by Memorial Day of next year. >> Yep. >> Um, you know, I think if it's not
completed, then you have access issues out to all those docs. Um so if that's something that is okay then we can certainly you know it could slide I guess depending on how you know final
payment could be after into the next fiscal year. >> You could write in a condition to prioritize the access to the docs by a certain date and not the whole project. Um,
>> yeah. >> I don't know how much that would add, but >> from a contractor's perspective, time is money. So, they're not going to want to stick around >> May, June, and July >> just to >> just to bill us in July. I mean, we could certainly ask in something like that, but I don't think we could kind of dictate.
>> So, we just have to kind of see. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The contract end date currently in the specifications is Memorial Day of next year. >> Okay. 27. >> Yeah. >> Is the permitting all complete for this? >> Yeah.
>> Yep. That is actually >> Oh my god. >> Fully done. >> Are we applying for any additional grants for the rotunda? >> Is there any out there or not? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. Okay.
>> Based on that timeline >> and and the risk of going through another winter season. >> Yep. I don't think we have that. >> Can I ask a question about the capital funding that appropriate? Yep. >> Yes.
>> Andrea is this is how to read the bre. So I'm looking at FY26 and I'm looking at fund funding sources and I'm just not sure I understand the in uh the within two and a half and the outside two and a half. Could what
translate me? >> Sure. So, I was just kind of putting down what funding sources and I haven't completely filled this out yet. >> Um, but for any borrowings that we decide to, you know, that can fit within our two and a half%.
>> That would be that first line. >> I see. >> Most of the borrowings are outside, >> but the chances of that are slim slim. That's why it's blank. >> Slim is slim and very slim. So, so >> I am Am I correct that if we go out with
these projects B we would do an override for the appropriation but it's possible that when we come to the final issuance of the bonds we might have more money that will
reduce the amount of bond we actually have to issue. Yeah, >> we need the appropriation for them to go out to bid. >> Oh, >> but then the actual amount we bond, we don't even know the exact cost of the projects. >> Yes, that's right. Yep. Okay. That's
>> and and you know with the cul like the culvert is uh we may, you know, if we get MVP or brick gets extended, we may never even touch that authority that appropriation, right? So, but we're factoring >> Andrea is factoring it in as if we did
>> just so you can see the total tax bill impact. >> But so the bond I mean we had 1.3 million funded last year and it was just the million that fell through >> but now the the new bond is going to be for the to replace that million plus
another the inflation. >> No, it didn't fall through. We still have 1.3 800 from the CZM. It was supposed to be 2.3, but we lost 1 million. >> No, the original was 3.6. >> Oh, is that what it was? Okay.
>> 3.6. And the 1.3 came off of that. >> Okay. That was the CM 1.3 that we lost >> the grant. I'm not following. >> There's a CM. We applied for a CM grant and it fell through. Well, we had >> and that's why the project
hope >> but like last year we also had another grant that we applied for that um you knew we didn't get but we were still waiting for this >> that was the one that's the one that we went before town meeting last year
>> and when we went before town meeting and I forgot to bring it with me >> I made it very clear when we asked for that money for the Rotunda that we had lost one grant, >> right? >> We had another grant we were hoping for,
but with the status of grants, we were not assured that we actually would receive it. And that's what's happened this year. We didn't receive it, >> but we still have the 800,000 from the general that we correct and 500,000 CPCs,
>> right? That's allocated towards this. And so that's why the appropriation is reduced by those amounts. And I think it would be reduced again if we got >> this this are you going to leave it at this because we don't know whether we'll get the CPC money.
>> I think this includes CPC money at >> 350 for this year. So the CPC really wanted to keep the 200,000 but they might reconsider it if it's to reduce the interest for the rotunda. But
when we were looking at just last they they wanted to keep the 200,000 they didn't like our recommendation >> for what >> the housing to go to >> that is not what I heard on the CPC meeting >> that what what Dean's referring to is prior to last night's meeting. So that
changed last night. >> Last night's meeting it was discussed. >> Yeah. And they decided they were >> right. >> They they didn't directly discuss it, >> right? >> But it was brought forward by a couple of people who are members of the
affordable housing trust. >> Yes. >> Who suggested maybe they could do it. The affordable housing trust is meeting next Tuesday. >> Okay. So yeah. So, we'll bring it before the affordable housing trust next Tuesday and then it'll be up for the CPC
to decide >> what they want to do. >> I and I amended our CPC application from borrowing to uh an appropriation of 350.
>> Good. Okay. And uh we'll talk about it Monday night with the select board, but I've sent it over to Jack just to make sure he saw it. >> I think we're going to have the meeting the 19th, but it might be the 26th. >> I think he said 26th today.
>> Okay. It's still the 26th. >> So, we've got a lot of DPW C. Just saying. Um, is the fleet replacement required? >> What are we replacing? >> It's actually the director vehicle. Uh,
right now I share it with the wastewater guys. That's that's a point of contention. >> Is there a schedule of vehicles? Last year we there were 23 that I thought on the schedule. Is that >> right there? >> Is that in your Um, I think there is
>> 31. >> Okay. >> So, it's not 31. It's So, I tried to parse out like a lot of those are trailers and you know, things that are registered like the message boards, you know, like those are on that list. That's part of the 31. >> Complex.
Well, those those I hope against me, but uh we have uh 12 right now. uh you know called normal duty like the F350 to 550 uh pickup explorer um so
those are those are those then we have like the heavy duty stuff that's for you know moving material moving snow backo front end loader sidewalk tractors all of those types of things so um that's how you get to 31 um so we have and I
think I counted 18 18 trucks 12 of those are the normal duty Six of them are the heavy duty. Um, and where is that schedule? I don't see >> it's not in our packet. It's on the screen. >> And I'm going to read that. >> We'll send it to you.
>> Would you send it? >> Yes. >> Yeah. And so, and to be honest with you, like, you know, a lot of our >> our oldest pickup are, you know, right now 2014. >> So, that's, you know, getting up to 12 13 years, which is 12 years is kind of a typical life cycle. Um, so you know the
coming years, next five years, we're basically taking one of the old ones and replacing it in kind. So we're not looking to add to the fleet necessarily really this year because the wastewater guys had a truck that we had to surplus. It wasn't wasn't serviceable last year. >> So you're adding a truck this year?
>> That would be this year. So that would go from 12 to 13. But the wastewater guys right now at zero. Chuck, we had fire in last week and they were talking about trying to get rid of the forest truck and pick up something you had. Is that consistent with your plan?
>> Yeah. So, I talked to Jake about that. So, I told him I told him to figure it out, but we like sat down and >> you know he has he hasn't tried to get a lot of trucks from >> he just wants he just wants to pay.
>> He provided a schedule which gave which I thought was very useful of vehicles that was in the year purchase. Yeah. >> And sort of where they were in their life cycle. Is that something that exists? That's it. >> Right. >> Okay.
And 12 years is our normal cycle for most trucks. >> Yep. Including the heavy duty big ones, >> right? And just the way it's worked out like those are kind of the newer in the fleet. So we've done kind of the big heavy lifting trucks over the past five, six years. >> And front end loaders and
>> front end loader was actually this year. So that's that's been purchased. were good for the next decade. >> So there's >> what was the little orange um >> sidewalk or Kabota? >> No. Yeah. What was that? >> That might have been higher equipment.
>> So we we had a fleet out of power equipment. >> It has like a snowblower. >> That's awesome. >> What happened down my street? But it didn't do anything. That was really fun. So this is not has nothing to do with DBW, but I I actually asked the two
select board members whether it is the town policy that our employees should each have a truck. This sounds like a joke, but it's really not. when the truck is not required to carry,
you know, equipment in the back and things like, they would normally be driving their, you know, Chevy or whatever, a car and they would do mileage and I used to work at a bank and I think I got 28 cents per mile when I
was driving out to see a customer or something. >> That's must been That was a long time ago. >> That was a long time. Long time ago. Um, but >> 70 cents a gallon or 70 cents and is it
is it the town policy more or less that you know everybody gets a truck or >> No, I mean I >> and I'm not, believe me, Chuck, I'm not trying to criticize you in any way here. Um, >> well, I would just say like, you know, like even myself personally, like if I go out of town for a conference or
something like that, I'll typically just take my own car anyway and I'll get the mile. But like in town for you know town operations we have to have town trucks. >> Okay. >> They have the lights they have the you know for us safety zones it's all that all that kind of
>> I would say simple answer no that we don't have a policy like that. Our our fleet is usually sized to the operations and the needs. >> Okay. Sometimes you do have to, you know, in the DPW sense, DPW is different, uh, that, you know, they have
to build a fleet that is going to provide for us when we need all those trucks on the road. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. So, their their use varies differently than say police or fire. >> Those great big trucks
we plow with, are those used for anything else or just snow? Oh, they are. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I mean, >> hauling the snow, >> hauling the snow for sure. >> Um, you know, even in the summer, like we do beach cleaning every week. Uh, you know, they haul the seaw um stuff like that. >> Or if you get a or if you get a pipe
break and you got a whole that's when honestly they use the most and that's when most needed because you have to have access to those trucks to get the material to >> truck. Does the um that 12 year life cycle change with um whether or not you
have a a barn to put them under? >> So I say, you know, over the last six to eight years, we've lost both of our cold storage, you know, >> yeah, >> barn areas for those trucks. And we have, it's especially noticeable on the
smaller equipment, like the sidewalk tractor. So we bought the brand new sidewalk tractor in 2018. I think it was my first town meeting. Um that so that's six, seven years old. Like we spend tens of thousands of dollars on that every year to keep it in service during winter
operations because it sits out all summer and we can't use it. So like that's the the MT is a little bit different because we have attachment that we can use that for brush clearing and stuff like that in the summer. So it gets used but the other stuff just sits and rots. Um we we definitely are seeing more
maintenance because of that. >> Got it. Thanks. All right. But yeah, we would expect more longevity with storing our vehicles inside >> y by a factor of 25%. >> I'm trying to get sense of what that
impact is that seems about right because if we're anticipating 12 years and we're on year eight or nine of a thing that we put tens of thousand dollars, but that's kind of on par. Um I comment on the
general level I I'm not comfortable at all with borrowing 29.5 million in a bond in one year. Um we have made great strides in our piping program. Um and we're ahead of most towns in replacing
pipe and I think that we should prioritize the PAS and not do both this year. Uh, I think that the pipes can be deferred for other years. We learned our lesson last year when we had Pleasant and Mill going at the same time. We felt
like it was too much at once. And so I think we're doing it again. And I it's kind of a slap in the face to Tapen Street residents to replace the pipes because the real issue is when they put that housing project in that retention
basin doesn't work and every storm the backyards flood and all the the salt from the DP the MBTA station goes all over our yards. So, if you're going to do nothing about that and replace pipes, it makes us think that you're more
worried about keeping Grenice busy than ch than helping the residents. So, >> and I respond to >> this is just I'm sorry. >> No, don't respond. >> It's I'm a resident of that area and and >> that you have the right
>> flooding is atrocious. And why did you take out the floodgate and not put it back in? I think I wanted us to discuss of any project. >> All right. I I digress. The thing is, do we have to do PIP full scale pipes and
PAS together? Can't >> Wouldn't it be logical to like concentrate on one and like >> we saw the map Dean? I think we need to keep forging ahead on the pipe replacement. >> We're ahead of most towns, >> but it's most towns we're talking about. >> I just don't agree with that.
>> That's not true. Well, most 70% of most towns are over 100 years old. >> And if I'm correct, Andrew, you're from what you sent us, which I don't have before me. Um, that
the full amount of this 29.5 million will not be borrowed in one year. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> That's correct. So that what again were your numbers
regarding the impact on the tax rate in what years was this 29.5 >> I put in so for like PAS for example >> I put in that it would be um banned like a
portion of it just banned right so not the full >> full fiscal year 27 7. >> Yep. And then rolled over again. >> In 28 and then fully barred in FY29. >> Okay. >> So then if there's any other like funds or if you know project comes in under
budget that'll significantly change these numbers, but the full tax impact would be expected in FY29. >> And what about Tapen Street? What was the timeline for that? >> Tap and I had a ban in FY27 and then fully bonded in 28. Could you could you
help us with the amount of the ban in most cases? >> So the I have um about 4 million for the first year. >> But what's the payment? >> The payment would be 150,000 estimate
>> for 27. >> Say that again. For >> fiscal year 27, >> correct? >> Okay. 50,000 in fiscal year 28 >> would be 328,000 for um like 9,000 9
to10,000 >> out of 10 10 million million >> if only if it was $10,000. >> So it's not hitting us all in one tax year. >> Correct. And it looked to me like that schedule
you gave us didn't have significant adverse impact on the tax, right? Even though he said >> I mean it is it kind of like ramps up for like three years and then after that it levels out.
>> I mean if you want to do pipes I was thinking Bennett made more sense because isn't there low pressure? >> We're not litigating their what their approach is. We're just talking about the fun, the budget. >> What do we What can we cut out? >> There's no pressure. Is >> it all or nothing?
>> There's no pressure problem on Bennett. I can tell you I have >> No, no. East man, West Manchester is is Brookwood and Landmark. I mean, those things are >> bridge. They're not Bennett Street, >> but it's the line goes that way, right? >> No, it goes through Bridge, doesn't it?
Bennett is a little short. Bennett has water and so does bridge. But I thought the Bennett loop helped supply all of East Manchester. No. >> Well, done it, but actually the work we did on Walker Road is more important to all. >> Okay. Okay. So, it's there's no operational benefit for Bennett either.
Okay. It's just maintenance to replace, >> right? >> So, I mean, let me let me just say a couple things. One is I have no allegiance to any contract or anything else. I'm putting these projects forward because they need to go. They need to get done on the position of tap indentry is it needs water, sewer, and drain. So, not just talking about the drain, not
just talking about nothing. I have nothing to do with the MBTA or anything else. So, I don't know what that's all about. >> It's flood. >> Second, I don't care. Second of all, I've never t I've never touched the flood anything on uh that area before you got here. >> So, yes, it's all something else.
>> The illegal to line the sewer there ahead of replacing the water. We thought it was just a warming product. >> That could not be done. >> We need to make strides on the sewer system. We also know that we have a backlog of $40 million on the water system. Yeah. >> So, we have to do both at the same time.
It makes no sense to do one or the other. It just so happens on Tapen Street, we also have major drainage issues that I'm also trying to address. And so, that's how you go from a $300,000 sewer main job to a $4 million all-in water, sewer, drain, and roadway
reconstruction. >> But that absolutely necessary, 100% every single one. And now's the time because we tried doing it last year and we didn't. We put it off last year. I also tried to do it in COVID, but we took away the capital one. So that's why so that's why this project has become a
six-year project. And so yeah, I could put any number of streets ahead of it on the list, but that doesn't solve the problem that is here and now on Tap Street. And we've already done the design. So this is just construction dollars. And I and I think that what we have to remember is
there are a lot of issues in town with flooding of various areas. The DPW's responsibility is water, sewer, and road drainage. >> It's not fixing flooding problems in the town from other sources.
>> Well, this is a separate thing of a specific project that has caused a lot of harm to our neighborhood. It's a separate issue. I'll address it separately. >> Thank you. And it is so like the tapin is like a phase one of the drainage issues in that area. >> But your drainage problem is just
relocating a railroad ditch around private property. It doesn't make any sense. >> Street project. >> So that's phase one of what we need to do. >> We're not Can I Can I just make a comment here? So this just going up 20,000 ft. We are all volunteers. We
brought to this committee because we look at this town through the lens of finances, >> right? >> We all have our personal opinions about land and trees and water and everything else. But our job sitting here is finance. >> Yes.
>> And I have to restrain myself sometimes from going off the reservation. But >> it is about finance. And we trust the experts and the people we've hired in all different departments. And I think Sarah's made this point multiple times. If we have issues, we should go to the
meetings with selectmen and other folks where it's appropriate to deal with it there. But but our role really is finance and we >> try to get some of that $4 million amount down. But >> well, I think that when we look I mean
26.2 million is a big big number. No question about it. But when we look at the spreadsheet that Andrea gave us on the impact of the tax rate, which is really what our obligation is, is it's not overwhelming.
And certain portions of this 26.2 million may never be bonded if we obtain money from other sources. Okay. >> And I think that the problem is is we need to appropriate it at town meeting
so they can go out to dead. >> Well, before we approve it, I really suggest we look at that 25 year bonding thing because with Essex Elementary and the other things, we're going to hit our capacity and this is the one that they're
>> I mean, we're going to discuss capital on March 5th and March 12th. So we have loads of opportunity to discuss that aspect and we will >> any questions for Chuck and Nate on
these DPW capital projects. >> Yes, I have one. Go ahead. >> Totally unrelated to all this stuff. Remind me Chuck or Nate, what do uh the the DPW facility? What stage what stage are we at now? And
that is this >> right? So back when we first started doing this uh budget process, there was a chance that you know if if we had spent the money that was appropriated for this fiscal year to further the design u development for the DPW
facility on school street or or wherever really. Um then we would have needed the additional money to finish that design. We are not there yet and we won't be there by town meeting. So we that's why it's it's shown as requested but not recommended because we're not ready to request it and spend it. Thank
>> you. any >> I don't have any other questions. Okay. >> Question check on these capital items. >> Um I just want to know on this vote are we voting >> we're not voting >> or no or no vote. Thank you. >> We're not going to vote on capital until
March or 12. >> Thank you madam chairman chair person. We're just trying to get input from the various departments now and then we'll look at the entire capital budget and the impact on the next. >> Okay.
>> So I think we're done with DPW water sewer. >> Yes. >> Right. Yeah. >> Next item on the agenda is town hall common and facilities. Remind us Sarah what page that is 30.
So these are expenses related to the ongoing operations of those facilities. Is this for us? Is this for a town hall? for town hall. >> You already voted on, right?
>> Why isn't this product so >> we've slowly moved things over? >> I know. >> This was this was great budget. So, >> what's the call? >> Can we move this over to facilities next year? >> Happy.
So, so is this are we voting to spend $65,000 the electric bill for town hall? >> All electric. >> All electric. Okay. >> The H system that was not chargers, >> right?
>> But it's a better oil and gas and diesel have gone down that Good. Okay. I move we uh do 71,900 $100 for town
hall and common. >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> Is the amount budgeted for supplies enough? I mean, it was 8,000 in 2025. We're going to 4700 again. Or was that a
one time thing? That was a one time equipment. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, everything else is under the developments. >> So, I'm sorry. Just so Andrew remind us again if we budget 65,000 for
electricity and then we come in while we're done basically down to free calf again. >> Yes. >> Or do they get suspended within the >> or it gets transferred in the last two weeks where >> it's basically Yeah.
>> All right. Thanks. >> Um, >> so you you made a motion, correct, car? >> I did. >> I second it. >> Andy seconds it. Oh, you had already done that. >> I had done that. >> Um, take a vote. My >> yes. >> Peter, >> yes. >> Gar,
>> yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Andy, yes. Sarah votes, yes. >> That's it. >> We're done with you guys. >> Thanks, guys. a lot of arrows. >> Yeah, that's nice.
>> Oh, yeah. Sorry. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um, next item on the agenda is the operations and capital budget for land use, >> aka land management, which is page 52. >> So, benefits all the time. It's okay. It
didn't take long, but we don't have a very large budget. This is the second year that we've had uh the combined land management budget, which uh includes, as you can see,
planning, conservation, for pretty much close to 1100 budget this year. What are the professional services? That's gone up a significant amount. >> Yeah. So, the professional services, uh, the planning board had, uh, $20,000
when they had a separate budget which was used for the MBTA. Uh we also used it for this past year for um uh it's in our current budget for the downtown uh
visioning and zoning that we worked on for that we actually submitted today to the select board. Um it is uh been increased by 5,000 because uh conservation commission needs to have
access to professional services to manage the beaver issue that that they have. Um they have multiple what are called beaver deceivers uh throughout uh different wetland areas and farms in town to maintain levels so
that kind of moderate you know and uh hopefully prevent flooding particularly of private properties. Uh so that costs somewhere in uh you know three or$4,000 a year. Sometimes they need improvements
upgrades. So this year I know we need to upgrade some of the fencing. So just the standard maintenance is like you said around 3,000. So it might be closer to the 5,000 this year. So that's why that's gone up. That
was balanced by last year we had a higher number for I believe it was capital equipment because we're going to be purchasing a a plotter so that we can scan um uh our plans in uh and try and
reduce the old our files all paper files that we have. So be able to uh to reduce the volumes of paper that is all over town all over all
around see one. So so that's where we're just moving the fields over. So >> um with the beaver dams >> we're only doing things that are on town property.
>> That's correct. Not on any of the properties owned by various nonprofits. >> That's correct. As far as I'm aware. >> Okay. >> What What is the expense we put into Shabbaca Woods?
What do we do? >> We I can answer this one. >> Yeah. Um we don't Manchester has an agreement with the town of Hamilton that um we share the cost of upkeep of the tobacco trails and woods area. And so, um, they have a budget of 2500 and we're
responsible for half of that. So, at the end of the year, they'll say, "Okay, we we spent $500 and then, you know, here's your invoice for 250." Um, so that's kind of how that works. >> So, it's upkeep of the trails. >> It is. Yeah. >> And which we share with them. >> Yes. >> But we don't seem to spend it. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. They've done a lot. They've had a lot of volunteers the last couple years because I call over every year and I'm like, "Do we owe you anything?" And they're like, "No." So, you know, they had someone out there with the their own chainsaw the other day. So, but very nice for volunteers.
>> So, any more questions on land management? >> No. >> Okay. >> Do I have uh >> just a question to you? >> Yeah. >> So, the ZBA filing fees that would be revenue, not expense, right? No, it's
the cost to file the decisions with the um registry of deeds, >> but the ZBA increase their fees to $1,000, >> right? >> Make sure that it covers that cost. And actually ZBA
revenue exceed expenses or at least it used to before it was okay. >> Integrated into one budget. recording decision. >> The the ZBA asked for 500 and select board said let's increase it to a,000 and there's not been one complaint.
>> So the other thing the CPC got a request I guess it was from the historic district commission for 20,000 for professional services for the school street survey but I'm wondering if is that kind of under land management would that or is there a separate historic
district? Well, so there is this historic district >> commission >> commission as well as a historic commission and so um >> so the uh >> it's a semc runs is CPC we can fund historic
projects as well as open space. So they they thought it was sort of CPC I believe may have funded I don't know they they had a grant which was but they they wanted to
time thing >> y >> uh rather than put it into the operating >> but it's normally like kind of handled in this department. >> Yes. Well, we handle their administrative. Okay. Correct.
>> Do I have a motion to approve the land management budget in the amount of 277,680? >> You do. You have such a motion. I'll second. >> Dean seconds. Any discussion? Take a vote. F. >> Yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Lori, >> yes. >> Peter, >> yes.
>> Yes. >> And there's no capital items. >> No. in >> I move we adjourn a second >> I really would like to vote on some minutes >> okay let's get that done
>> chair also um just a just a quick recap on >> on our schedule >> yes >> uh we've so far we've accomplished everything on the schedule except we skipped over town administrator select board >> and we skipped over veteran services.
>> Um veteran services is very simple. It would take maybe a minute uh if you wanted to just knock one of those two off the list. >> I'm I'm thinking that at our February 19th meeting next week
>> that's going to be a really light meeting. >> Yeah. Okay. And I'm suggesting that we start going through all of the town budgets in that meeting. >> Yeah. >> And just kind of start at the beginning of the book and go through all of the town budgets. And I think we can run
through those. >> Okay. >> Pretty quickly. And then if we don't complete them on the 19th, I think on the 26th when we meet with the school, that's not going to be a heavy duty meeting and that we'll be able to finish the town budgets by then. Was that
acceptable? >> Absolutely. >> Minutes from last week and >> and the week before. >> Good. So on the minutes from January 29th,
Dean had sent us comments last week. Um, and >> they don't have to be verbatim >> for me with everything except for one clause that I'd like to be struck and
that is um when we were talking about Harbor the Morse Pier and the the wreath park and that stuff and you added In a
section, the board discussion involved whether these were necessary expenses in a tight budget year as they would appear to mitigate only five days per year when the existing docks reach capacity. Any vote was deferred to include with other capital considerations. I would like to
strike as they would appear to mitigate only five days per year when the existing docks reach capacity because I don't believe that's based on data. Right. Right. That's based on observation. Okay. Um, the other ones I was okay with. Did
anybody else have an opinion? >> Fine to me. >> Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the January 29th >> as adjusted? >> As amended. >> As amended. >> Um, with Dean's comments and my changes to Dean's comments. Motion to approve
the January 29th, 2026 minutes. >> So approved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I Next set of minutes from January 5th, February 5th. Will people have a chance to hold those?
>> Very recently. >> Were there any amendments? >> Not amendments, but a general comment. And again, this may be AI at work and >> it looks like the minutes are very very specific to the town employee
presenting, but they don't always capture some of our debates. >> Okay? >> And I can't point to anything specific, but I know this group spent a fair amount of time talking about possible solutions of things going forward and
other stuff, and it just wasn't in here. And I I don't I wouldn't hold these minutes up. look at the minutes because I really haven't had a chance to look at Let me look at the minutes and see if I come up with anything in that. >> I just felt like when we looked at minutes a few years ago, it might say,
you know, Mr. Alderman commented on such and such and the group had a discussion about and a task was put forward for town administrator to consider this in the future. And there's very little of that. It's mostly reporting on what was being presented to
us. consult. >> Yeah. >> And those are the minutes of 25 >> last week. >> Last week. >> Let me look at them again. >> They came very recently. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um so our next meeting is on February 19th. That would be next Thursday
>> where I've already I've already posted the agenda because of the Monday holiday. I see decided to get my act together. So it's assessor, building department, benefits, pension, property insurance, and town budgets. >> Yep. Scripping.
>> Anything else you guys add, Tony? >> And you, anybody else have anything that you consider? No. No. I'll take you with >> second just
last night or I just I didn't work too close, >> you know. I don't I don't know. I didn't get an email. >> Got it.