WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=D1CJcmkzvpw NOTE MEETING SECTIONS: Part 1 (Video ID: D1CJcmkzvpw): - 00:00:00: Meeting Called to Order; Introductions and Agenda Overview - 00:01:05: Fiscal Year 26 Snow Removal Budget Deficit Discussion - 00:02:50: Unpaid Bills: Town Meeting Video/Audio Services - 00:06:07: Senior Center Warrant Article and Capital Item Reordering - 00:08:56: Reviewing Snow Removal Budget, Free Cash Allocation - 00:17:44: Senior Center Expansion: Design, Costs, and Funding - 00:28:21: Senior Center Project: Transparency and Capital Planning Concerns - 00:38:13: Fundraising Update and Town Contribution Discussion - 00:47:42: Project Process Feedback and Cost Considerations - 00:55:50: Design Level and Cost Estimates for Senior Center - 01:01:48: Select Board Concerns and Money Raising Potential - 01:04:12: Square Foot Costs, Revolving Account Funds Allocation - 01:10:18: Realistic Timeline and Senior Center Planning Reiteration - 01:15:12: Program Director Costs, AEB, and Revolving Funds - 01:17:02: Senior Center Facility Inclusion Process and Review - 01:21:55: Timing, Negotiations and Earmark Funding Discussion - 01:26:18: Warrant Article and Final Senior Center Review - 01:29:14: Finance Committee Review: Tapen Street and Capital Items - 01:32:22: Grant Language, Superceeding and Capital Articles Review - 01:35:12: Resurfacing Budget, Debt and Taxation for Budget Review - 01:38:13: Construction Start and Grants Discussion - 01:41:14: Warrant Approval Process, Vote and Book - 01:44:30: Warrant Senior Center Voting Review - 01:45:04: Square Feet, Cash Numbers and Abutting Properties - 01:47:59: Income Book and Bond for Elementary School Data - 01:49:43: Tax Rates and Capital Project Data - 01:54:00: Increase Tax Rates and Assessment of Tax Rates - 01:57:17: Funding Breakdown of Article Data - 02:00:25: Booklet Charts and Expenses and Property - 02:05:50: Final Reports, Schedules and Budgets - 02:09:45: Liaison Updates and Future Meetings - 02:12:50: Meeting Adjourned and Future Events Part: 1 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:15.920 I have the right agenda. Um, all right. >> It's 7 o'clock on Thursday, March 19th, and I will call the finance committee meeting to order. It is a hybrid meeting which is being 2 00:00:15.920 --> 00:00:33.200 recorded. I have with me in the room um John Croft, Andy Alderman, Mory Kraton, um Peter Twining, Gar Mor, and myself, Sarah Mel, um Dean Nades indicated he might be joining a little late. And we 3 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:50.640 also have um Tony Longer, the town administrator. Is Andrea not coming? >> She is. She's okay. And Andrea Mayville, finance director, will be here shortly. Um is it okay if we start? >> Yes. 4 00:00:50.640 --> 00:01:05.760 >> Okay. Um so the first item on the agenda is the fiscal year 27 budget. To the best of my knowledge, we don't have open items. Um is that correct? Has 5 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:25.920 anything opened? Um, I know just on on the on the budget, I don't think there's anything anything that's changed. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, the next was the fiscal year 26 snow 6 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:42.000 removal budget. It's my understanding that Andrea was working on something. I'm not sure what >> she was putting together. trying to get kind of more of an accurate number as to where we are with our snow and ice 7 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:59.920 spending. I know it was in the 200,000 range that she mentioned last meeting and >> I know she was printing out some uh information on that just now. So, >> okay. So, >> so the question was I think whether we 8 00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:16.560 are going to address some or all of that at this year's town meeting or whether we hand, you know, if we wanted to use free cash, we would have to do that. Um, if we weren't using free cash, we could deal with it at the end of the year with 9 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:32.640 year-end transfers. So, I think I believe that was the analysis that she was working on. >> Yeah, I think she was going to look and see how much she might thought she might have for urine transfers and whether there was 10 00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:50.280 whether she thought there was enough. >> Okay. Um and then we also had an issue on unpaid bills. Apparently some bills just came in. >> Well, um 11 00:02:50.480 --> 00:03:04.560 the >> fiscal year. >> Yeah. So, it's the it's the um the gentleman does it or visual, you know, at >> video >> video audio at town meeting. >> Yeah. >> Um 12 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:22.640 and he has not submitted the bills to us yet. >> Oh. >> Um and it's possible uh that you know when he bills us for this year, he'll include that amount. We'll deal with it at that point. But there was also 13 00:03:22.640 --> 00:03:39.599 uh he also mentioned to Christine that he may not charge us this year either. So we might end up getting the service for free at the end of the day. But he's trying to get some invoices from him. And >> do you have any uh ballparks of are we 14 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:58.000 talking about $8 million or $2,000? or not. I think it was I think it was uh closer to the $2,000 range. >> That might be per you know I think that that might be per meeting and I think it was this past town meeting and the 15 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:19.120 previous that he hadn't build us for. So it could be 4,000. She'll she'll she'll have a better idea. And >> yeah, >> but we might end up getting >> be fine. >> May he may be volunteering. >> He may be. 16 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:37.199 >> What's our cut off date on that? >> Well, um I mean >> in theory in theory it could be something that we voted on. uh you know right before town 17 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:53.120 meeting uh we have an article for prior year bills. So >> right and we have items on it is my understanding. >> Right. So, um, >> this meeting has basically until, um, May, >> well, April, end of April, 18 00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:08.080 >> April 27th at >> 6:00 p.m. Uh, I mean, we we're obviously would want to get it if it we we could give them a more aggressive deadline and say, if you don't get it to us by this date, >> we're not going to be able to take it up at town meeting. Um, so you're going to 19 00:05:08.080 --> 00:05:25.039 have to wait until next year. I mean, I would just think it's policy. I mean, the town has so many vendors they're working with all over the place. There's got to be a policy that >> if you don't get your bill in by time, that's that's tough luck. I mean, you know, running a meeting or getting 20 00:05:25.039 --> 00:05:40.240 voters together, jumping through all these hoops to pay a bill, it's unreasonable. >> Yeah. It's the tough luck part of it isn't that uh we can say we're not going to pay you. It's just that you're going to have to wait until next year, the town meeting for us to take this up. 21 00:05:40.240 --> 00:06:07.600 >> So, either get it to us now so we can pay you sooner >> or you're going to have to wait another year. >> Exactly. >> So, we'll circle around on that when Andy gets that brings us to the There's nothing in the warrant about 22 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:34.160 senior center. >> There is >> there is that's when we'll be discussing article five. So, we had expected that the select board was going to vote on this Monday, but you're indicating they did 23 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:52.880 not do so. >> Uh, they they are going to approve the warrant for posting on the 30th. We did discuss, you know, the senior center and some of the other items on here. or CPC. They voted in favor of all 24 00:06:52.880 --> 00:07:12.080 the CPC articles. Um we're just waiting for final feedback from bond council and legal counsel. The only other, you know, changes may be uh coming is a reordering of the uh 25 00:07:12.080 --> 00:07:28.160 capital items. Uh, so but I can make those before the 30th. Obviously, we need to have that finalized before you before we send the book to print on the 26th. So, 26 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:42.639 >> next week. I think that's next week. >> Yep. So, um, right now, you know, it's really just kind of the rhythm of the meeting. And right now we have it goes 27 00:07:42.639 --> 00:08:01.639 PAS then Tapen Street then Culver then Dredging then uh Ratunda and I was talking with Ann today about potentially moving Tapen down and moving the others up. 28 00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:23.919 >> Is that because you're trying to get all the waterbased project clustered together? Well, more so I guess putting them somewhat in order of our capital priorities. I mean, as we talked about, they're all priorities. It's there's really no 29 00:08:23.919 --> 00:08:42.959 wiggle room on any of these, but um you know, Tapen Street might be the one that is at >> is at the bottom of all the things that have to happen. >> Yep. Yep. >> Um >> so just thinking about like momentum of 30 00:08:42.959 --> 00:09:04.560 the town meeting discussion and then how they're presented that way is how they'll be presented on the ballot too. >> Yeah, makes sense. Let's circle back around now that Andrew is here. >> No removal budget fiscal year 26. What 31 00:09:04.560 --> 00:09:22.160 are your thoughts on that? >> Um it looks like we're estimated about $250,000 over what we budgeted. >> Over what we budgeted >> over what we budgeted. >> So it's 250 plus the 140 >> 390. Still very expensive. 32 00:09:22.160 --> 00:09:53.519 Sorry. >> Um, and we're hoping we don't have an April Fool's storm again. >> Right. >> Right. >> So, what are our thoughts of how we're dealing with that? So, >> what are your thoughts? 33 00:09:53.519 --> 00:10:09.120 >> Asking Andrea about the snow budget. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> How we're paying it. >> Well, my thoughts is um >> this is for this year that's we've already spent the money. >> I understand. >> Okay. >> So, my thoughts are to take it from pre-cash. Um I know that'll lower our 34 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:23.440 percentage a little bit. Um but we just had a department head meeting today and we talked to departments about making sure they don't spend. Um, >> but just in case it would be helpful if we did have an article at how we need to fund that snow and ice deficit because I don't want to have to raise it on the 35 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:39.760 recap. Um, and then also get hit on free cash anyway. >> And we know we have 50,000 from the schools, right? We appropriated 50,000 more >> than we needed, right? So, we know that's going to free cash, >> right? Yes. >> So, and then we also have the legal 36 00:10:39.760 --> 00:10:55.440 deficit that we'll need to provide for as well. So, So, I'm trying to make sure we have enough. >> Do you think uh you would cover all of that 250 with free cash or just a portion of it? 37 00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:17.120 >> I was looking at all of it. >> I guess, you know, the only issue is you you pull it out of free cash and if you have extra money in the budget, it goes in back into free cash. So, >> right. >> Mhm. >> Right. 38 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:33.360 >> Yeah. It doesn't matter. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> yes, Dean. >> Yeah. So, I'm wondering if we shouldn't just I mean, the snow removal budget is something we can overspend by state law. Um there is some provisions, right, 39 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:50.560 >> as long as we do the five-year average. But what Andrea said is we can go into a deficit, but they also put a hold on that portion from free cash. So you're double encumbering the money. So it makes more sense to 40 00:11:50.560 --> 00:12:07.120 allocate it from free cash at the town meeting. >> But it seems like we have the ability to um overspend this budget and take it from next year. We've increased the budget for next year or this year at this time meaning because of the 41 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:22.560 five-year average. No, we have >> perhaps we'll have less. >> We we didn't change the snow removal budget for fiscal year 27. >> So that was where we should have probably >> it was the same in 26 and what Andrea is saying, yes, 42 00:12:22.560 --> 00:12:38.959 we can wait and pay it out of the next year's budget. However, if we do that, the state also puts a hold on that amount in free cash. So, why not just allocate it out of free cash? 43 00:12:38.959 --> 00:12:54.079 >> Yeah. >> If we have to put a hold on it, it's just the same as spending it. >> Yeah, that's kind of I didn't realize that that >> that's how they do it. Okay. >> It's really they're incentivizing you to provide for it um and not, you know, take from next year's budget. They 44 00:12:54.079 --> 00:13:08.880 really want you to provide for it in the fiscal year that you extend it. >> Yeah, makes sense. >> So, is that an article that's not here yet? I didn't see it, but I might have missed it. >> It's a um I believe it says like a transfer from It didn't specifically say 45 00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:39.760 snow and ice. I don't think >> article 15 >> to supplement certain line items. >> I personally would find it helpful to have that be specific. >> Yes, >> me too. Um, I don't want to have to stand up in town meetings. Okay, the 46 00:13:39.760 --> 00:13:55.200 line item is I mean I'd rather have it in the warrant so people are aware >> in advance. >> I know this is kind of a long range question, but how do you think we're looking for free cash finishing up this year? I know I know we're early in 47 00:13:55.200 --> 00:14:10.959 receipt season, but >> yeah, we 50,000 from the schools because the final appropriation was 50,000 less, >> right? But I'm thinking more on the town operating side. You know, expenses, revenues. Do you think >> we'll be putting the typical amount into 48 00:14:10.959 --> 00:14:28.000 free cash? It kind of rolls in every year kind of consistently. >> I think so. I think um it'll be similar to last year. It wasn't as much as in previous years, >> but it'll be similar >> about 300,000. >> Yes. Y >> like 200 to 300,000. Yes. >> And you said we're over on the legal budget also. >> Correct. So, is that in this article 15, 49 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:44.320 too? >> It is not because I'm I'm assuming that I'm going to have enough money in other budgets to cover that deficit. Okay. >> But I won't have enough money to cover that deficit and the snow ice. >> Okay. >> I mean, I think snow and ice is 50 00:14:44.320 --> 00:15:04.079 not a surprise to people. Yeah. >> Unless they've not been here all winter. >> Okay. Um the other item was the fiscal year 25 unpaid bills. Tony indicated that perhaps we're still missing the one from 51 00:15:04.079 --> 00:15:19.360 the AV person >> and he hasn't responded. So >> said, well, you only have a certain amount of time to get it to us. So, >> he has responded about town meeting though, right? >> He has. >> Okay. >> Funded about town meeting, but not about 52 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:35.839 his prior year bills. So, I think he understands that since he did not follow up with us after we reached out to him. Yeah. But, you know, >> we did our part. >> Lose or lose. So Sarah, can we recommend to like ex make these expenditures through free 53 00:15:35.839 --> 00:15:52.000 cash and just move on? >> No. If we don't have the bills and we're not paying, we it will wait till then some town meeting after we receive the bills. >> Okay. >> We don't know what the bills are. >> But then we won't have that article then. >> We will because I have few others. 54 00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:06.320 >> Yeah. >> Yeah. All of these type of things I would vote to spend out of free cash and just move on. You don't know what the amount is? >> We have one or two that we've >> we have. >> Yeah. >> We have 55 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:23.279 >> Which article is that? >> Three. >> Yes. >> And what's the number? >> $1,897. >> Okay. >> Would you would you like that article to be specific as well? >> You can. 56 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:40.480 >> Yeah. So >> when it does mention prior year bills, >> it says prior bills, but it doesn't say >> the amount >> the amount from where to where. So if we do that from >> that, so basically that means if he doesn't give us the invoice by next 57 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:55.759 meeting, next Thursday, it's not getting on this warrant because if it's not here, it's >> books going to print. >> Book's going to print. I just find it difficult to have articles that say appropriate transfer, etc. If it's prior 58 00:16:55.759 --> 00:17:11.600 year bills, let's be specific as to where >> we're paying them from. >> Maybe this AV bill is low enough we can cover it in the final reserve. >> No, we have to appropriate it at a town meeting and we can't appropriate a bill 59 00:17:11.600 --> 00:17:28.319 when we don't know the amount and don't have it. We can't spend money unless the town meeting approve. Well, expenditure of the dollar amount reserve. >> No, it has to be appropriated money. >> Okay. So, we've >> we've expended our income reserve for 60 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:44.480 >> We have not. We've spent >> 15,000. >> You get an invoice from a previous fiscal year. >> State law requires it to be appropriate at town meeting with a fourfits vote. >> So, so it's not something that you can handle with a transfer. 61 00:17:44.480 --> 00:18:25.160 >> Okay. Because I thought we had a wild card in our fint It was in the same fiscal year. Could you do that? >> Okay. Now we go back to the war. In article four, you'll have the whole thing in me. >> Yes. 62 00:18:27.919 --> 00:18:48.480 Which brings us to article five, which includes a new entry to the senior center. And I think you have something about that to discuss with us. >> Yes. So I 63 00:18:48.480 --> 00:19:04.559 hope you had the opportunity to take a look at the email that I had sent um yesterday or the day before uh that provided some attachments. >> Um so essentially where we are with the 64 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:19.280 senior center uh we went through a process of design uh stakeholder involvement and put that uh conceptual design to a professional 65 00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:36.640 uh construction bidding firm and they came back with a $7 million plus estimate. um obviously significantly higher than assumptions of the cost and as you could see in the other attachment that I 66 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:53.200 provided of different DPW facilities and the square footage and how that has grown. I think that weighs into a lot of um why that assumption is why that processment has grown. So we we looked at that and said, "Okay, 67 00:19:53.200 --> 00:20:07.919 we need to kind of go back to the drawing board and see how can we potentially scale back the approach on this um on this development and what would those cost savings 68 00:20:07.919 --> 00:20:24.480 potentially be? What would the you know, what space would we be losing? How would that work with the programming approach?" And a long story short, it really didn't provide enough value 69 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:40.720 uh for the amount of space that you lost, whether you avoided doing the town's edition or you avoided doing the Mason's edition and moving the masons in to maintain their square footage. Uh or you eliminated both additions and just 70 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:56.559 did everything within the existing square footage. I think the most we brought it down to was still in the uh $5 million range.3. So, I'm surprised 71 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:12.320 that we're including the Mason section in our numbers because it was my understanding that when we presented the million dollar cost to the town last year 72 00:21:12.320 --> 00:21:28.640 that we had raised the price from 750 to a million because the Masons wanted to build out their own space. Has that changed? >> No, that hasn't changed. So this pricing is not accurate because it includes the masons. So it's overstated a little bit. 73 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:46.679 >> Well, the this pricing includes the buildout of the addition from studs out. >> So that's always been my understanding is the cost of the masons would basically do everything from studs in. 74 00:21:47.840 --> 00:22:05.280 Um and then we as we you know in the a couple examples where we eliminated the mason's addition we factored that in. Uh so when we we talked with the select board uh and reviewed these options and 75 00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:21.600 essentially deci decided that you really aren't capturing the scaleback version at this point at these numbers wasn't providing the value uh that we were hoping for and we said well if we continue with option 76 00:22:21.600 --> 00:22:37.679 one uh we really want to expand the use of this future facility. um what other department or departments could we have under this roof and what other types of programming could we use? 77 00:22:37.679 --> 00:22:52.960 Uh so we so we decided that we would stick with concept plan number one which is at the 7.2 and again this is a a 10% conceptual design. Um and the use of the 78 00:22:52.960 --> 00:23:11.120 space would be primarily or you know uh number one for the seniors but when the seniors aren't using the space that it opens up for community use. We've heard a lot from the from the community about how since the community center has gone 79 00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:27.120 away that there's that missing element in our town. So, it also provides for intergenerational programming. Um, and we could move some of the offices potentially here over to the Mason's 80 00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:42.799 building, freeing up space here. That helps us with potentially uh moving people out of Seaside One and bringing them here. So, there's it kind of has some additional benefits. Um the other thing that was you know 81 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:58.159 really important um to the select board was that you know we see progress on closing of the property. Um Jim's here from the Masons. Uh we've 82 00:23:58.159 --> 00:24:13.279 been on the phone multiple times a day for the last couple weeks. Uh we're we're really really close. >> Last year >> we are. 9% there. >> Yeah. Looking at tiny things. 83 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:31.240 >> Yeah. Um I mean our hope our the when we met with the select board the goal was town meeting. Uh we're hoping to have it done prior to town meeting. Um hopefully in the next week or so. Um 84 00:24:31.919 --> 00:24:47.200 so then we went and took you know once the select board agreed with that approach uh we met with the Masons made sure the Masons were okay with that. Of course they were. They were very happy to see that we were including community space in the in the uh in this area or 85 00:24:47.200 --> 00:25:04.320 in this as part of this concept. And we spoke with the friends and the CLA board as well. Um they that was a little bit of a harder uh discussion as you can tell. You know the seniors have been pushing for a senior center for many 86 00:25:04.320 --> 00:25:21.120 many many years and um you know that was always their hope. But they understood when explaining to them the cost implications and how this will you know it's unlikely that fundraising is going to cover the full cost of this 87 00:25:21.120 --> 00:25:37.440 investment. So, it's likely that the town is going to have to contribute to construction in the future. And if that's going to be the case, we really need to get more use out of the facility. And they were appreciative of that. They understood it and they supported it. Now, you'll I'm not I was 88 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:53.200 just with, you know, a few people from the friends and a few people from the COA. Um, that conversation we continue to have with larger groups. Of course, you know, there are folks who are, you know, still reluctant and really want it 89 00:25:53.200 --> 00:26:10.720 to be primarily a senior center, but I think they understand, you know, as long as the seniors come first as far as the time and use of the space. Um, and it's a collaboration really, especially now with COA, recreation department, and 90 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:27.520 public health all kind of underneath one umbrella under the town. um working closely together on how to best use that space. So the next big step is getting full design and basically make bringing this 91 00:26:27.520 --> 00:26:44.000 to shovel ready. Uh so that would be procurement documents, you know, soup to nuts. Uh our estimate for that is $350,000 well 325 to 350. Um and because of that 92 00:26:44.000 --> 00:27:01.279 expanded use, recreation revolving becomes an eligible funding source for this design. Um as we talked about when recreation department was here in front of you, uh there is a decent amount of funds in the recreation revolving 93 00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:17.120 account that we, you know, we want to spend on capital or other types of uh projects. Um Andrea can speak to those numbers if you have questions. Uh so by using recreation revolving also 94 00:27:17.120 --> 00:27:32.559 doesn't impact the balance of our operational budget as well. Um it's probably about a three to five month process. Uh so if we if this is approved 95 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:48.559 we wouldn't um be able to spend the money until July 1st. Um, as part of that, the select board felt it was important that we close on the property uh before investing additional funds 96 00:27:48.559 --> 00:28:05.440 into the future of the property. Uh, so technically, you know, and again, our goal is the next couple weeks, but technically we wouldn't be spending this money until July 1 anyways. >> And would we not spend it if we haven't closed? 97 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:21.760 >> Correct. Correct. Um, but certainly, you know, the Masons and the town both want to move to construction as soon as we possibly can. This is a step prior to that. So, closing is a step prior to that. So, 98 00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:38.640 everything's we're trying to move things as fast as we can, but if it does slip, we wouldn't spend the money on the design until the until we close on the property. >> Now, did this go through the facilities review committee? facility planning. >> I don't think so. 99 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:53.760 >> Well, yeah, whatever that's called. Silly planning. I mean, I'm concerned about the process >> um that this is not on has not been on our capital plan. There's nothing there's nothing for the 100 00:28:53.760 --> 00:29:08.559 senior center, the community center on our capital plan. Um, I thought an agreement was made that projects would be reviewed by this, what is it? Facilities planning >> committee before they move forward. And 101 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:26.159 so now we have a project that's being moved forward from people outside of town government. I mean, senior I mean, it's friends of the COA, isn't it? >> Um, I I don't know if I would characterize it that way. 102 00:29:26.159 --> 00:29:41.679 >> I mean, Who's leading it up? >> Me. I mean, I've been it's it's really been something that was transferred to, you know, to me when I started as a priority of the select board and the previous town administrator and 103 00:29:41.679 --> 00:29:57.760 obviously the friends and COA board as well. Um, I don't know why, you know, once the town agreed to purchase or move forward with purchasing the property, it didn't make its way onto the 104 00:29:57.760 --> 00:30:15.120 >> because of what was going to put any more funds into it. It's the reason it's not on there. it the the total amount when when the million was raised at last year's town meeting. It was stated that that would be the only amount cost borne by the town that 105 00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:30.000 everything else would be covered by donations because the expectation was it was going to cost 30 million >> not six or seven million. I mean, >> right, >> you know, um, so it was kind of being all handled outside of town finances 106 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:48.480 except for the acquisition cost. >> I think that's kind of >> I agree with Sarah. I think the process does not coincide with the mission of 107 00:30:48.480 --> 00:31:05.360 the finance committee. I don't I don't impugn the intentions of everybody involved in this. Tony, you walked in. You had an idea what you were walking into this place. I mean, it's amazing. Um, I think everybody has great 108 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:23.279 intentions, but um, speaking in my humble experience as a project financial person, um, the the the way this has come together 109 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:42.080 seems like, well, we have an everexpanding bucket and we need to find things to fill the bucket in order to justify carrying the bucket. That's a poor metaphor, but uh um I 110 00:31:42.080 --> 00:32:00.640 in my fond desire, I'd say go back and start and come back to us next fall or whenever we start meeting with a with a a plan that holds together. You have, you know, what we're building. 111 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:18.080 you have a contract with a contractor who's going to build it for a fixed price. Ideally, >> they can't do that until we appropriate money. That's >> okay. Well, okay. Set that aside for a second. And here here are the sources of 112 00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:35.200 the funds. It sounds like I mean it's a very pedestrian approach to life obviously but but uh I don't see I don't see a process that uh is what I I thought this these people 113 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:49.679 are not we're not supposed to be making decisions about about the whether or not we have a senior center. I don't think I think there's other folks in town who are supposed to do that. I mean I love I'm a senior. I mean, I love it. It is 114 00:32:49.679 --> 00:33:05.039 great. But but the way this thing has has come together, the process, and it's not your fault at all. I mean, you you walked in and you've done an admirable job of of, you know, 115 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:21.120 dealing with this. But, um, I think that it's, uh, it's a flawed situation we have. And do we sort of shrug and go, "Oh, what the hell? Let's go ahead and do it. That's kind of what we're It 116 00:33:21.120 --> 00:33:37.120 seems like we're doing here, but >> I think Stop. >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> Yeah, I was just going to say I think um we all think about things personally and then we all think about things as members of this committee. And you know, 117 00:33:37.120 --> 00:33:52.240 personally, I've been hearing about senior center for years. And I think it is of vital importance to the town. And there are things that that I think about one way, but when I put the lens on of how we're supposed to behave and what 118 00:33:52.240 --> 00:34:09.119 we're supposed to do on this committee, we have to sometimes think differently from that. And and I would agree that this has sort of moved through in a in a difficult way. I am fundamentally very concerned that we are spending more money on something that has not been 119 00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:26.079 signed. And I know it's it's been working and you you highlighted it a few meetings ago, Tony, where you said this is a complicated one because you know we've got a town, we've got a private entity, we've got a you know a nonprofit, we've got a wetland, we've 120 00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:41.440 got all it's like the worst combination of everything happening, >> registered land >> and and what that translates to is more timeline to get things done right and and so I am concerned about spend spending more money on this without a 121 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:55.839 signed document which is really I think a hurdle. So I would say if we can get this thing signed before town meeting that's maybe a discussion for the revolving fund but I have concerns about this as well. 122 00:34:55.839 --> 00:35:12.480 >> I think uh there is a transparency issue if we if the town voted on one set of facts and circumstances and those have changed materially and have to go back to the town and say things have changed. Here's what's changed. Here's why. Here's we did. Here's the new plan. >> Well, and I 123 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:26.400 >> you kind of sneak in the capital budget like oh just another item. >> Yeah. I I think we need to have I mean what we've been working on this year is for each of the capital items 124 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:42.240 we've kind of incorporated into a longer term cost. And I think that we would need to do that, include this in that whole spreadsheet we're working 125 00:35:42.240 --> 00:35:58.160 on so that before we could vote on it, so that we could understand what it's adding to the tax rate, just like we've done for each of the other projects, when the bond would hit, you know, etc. um just so we have the financial 126 00:35:58.160 --> 00:36:16.240 information that we have on all the other capital projects that were included. >> Yeah, I would just I just would put this more in the category of this is spending on design like Bennett Street or if we 127 00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:30.960 were putting money towards design of Graly Pond. It's not until that design is completed that you know what the potential cost implications are going to be and then you kind of fit that into that 128 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:51.040 estimated debt schedule. Um, >> no, we we don't know what is each of those projects is actually going to cost us. And and I think 350,000 and 50,000 last year, 400,000 129 00:36:51.040 --> 00:37:10.000 is much more in design than we've ever been asked for in advance for a project before. Usually we appropriate money which includes preparing the construction documents as part of the overall project. I mean 130 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:26.640 Bennett Street we're talking maybe a h 100,000. This is four times that amount. This is a big number. >> It is a big number. >> Um and that's what concerns me is do we have the cart ahead of the horse? Um, 131 00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:42.400 we're spending all of this money on something we don't own and we don't really know what the plan is. We we don't have any type of letter 132 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:58.079 of intent commitments from the people who we expect to donate to cut down on the cost. Um, and my concern is you move forward with a project 133 00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:13.760 with town funds and doesn't that decrease the incentive for donations? I would think it would. >> Um, Susan Beckman might be on the call. 134 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:30.800 Yes, she is. She's kind of heading up the fundraising arm side of it, so she could probably speak to that. I think I would guess she probably would say that >> momentum builds momentum when it comes to fundraising, but >> I'm here. 135 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:47.440 >> I mean, I think our concern is we're we're putting out a lot of money and it seems like we have designs and we don't quite understand why the fundraising isn't further along. >> Well, it it's a complicated chicken and egg is probably the best way to put it. 136 00:38:47.440 --> 00:39:03.119 In order to effectively fund raise, you have to be able to identify how much you're fundraising for. So, we started a process um a year ago with a feasibility study that looked at the possibility of a two and a half to $3 million 137 00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:18.480 opportunity. We went through the study, found out that we had the wherewithal to do that. We were hoping we could launch a capital campaign and get things moving. Obviously, everything was uh set on getting the signature for the deal to 138 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:34.079 close. Um, and we all know where that stands. So, I think at this point, what we've started to do is have some quiet conversations with people around a letter of commitment, which we can't start a fund uh process yet. We're 139 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:49.680 working with ECCF, who will help us manage this project, and we can't launch a capital campaign until a project is approved. That said, we can start with letters of commitment and we are just starting those conversations now. So the 140 00:39:49.680 --> 00:40:04.720 hope is is that we will have letters of commitment and understanding the importance of this for the community in conjunction with the parallel process of moving ahead with the design and then launching into the actual cost and the 141 00:40:04.720 --> 00:40:20.880 capital campaign. So it it's it's a parallel process. The fundraising piece is a parallel process associated with this. Um, but at the end of the day, you can't, it's very hard to ask people for money when you don't know the cost. You don't know a lot of other things. But I 142 00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:37.119 think people that have been following this along understand that a private public relationship, when you're dealing with a municipality, a nonprofit, as well as trying to raise money publicly, it's a little complicated, but I think we've got a good message around that. 143 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:51.839 and I'm pretty confident that we can move ahead with it. So that's sort of the the general thing. The feasibility study did state that, you know, understanding mass general law, you have to be able to fund the full amount to start construction. They felt pretty 144 00:40:51.839 --> 00:41:08.640 clearly that um it would be an additive process. people would understand that the the whole purpose of the fundraising is to raise money and the capital to pay back for the construction costs of the senior center community space. 145 00:41:08.640 --> 00:41:25.760 >> Thank you. Pay back home. And we also um we also applied this week we applied for federal funding of 1.5 million for the senior center and we applied for an earmark of 150,000 from Senator Tar's 146 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:42.000 office as well >> and they would be for >> they would be applied toward the construction. >> Yeah. Uh construction. See the thing design 147 00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:58.880 we have to close in order to design. You have to design in order to save money and >> potentially ask, you know, to do fundraising and to ask the town to contribute to construction. Mhm. >> And 148 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:15.599 you know, to speak for the Masons, too, um you know, this deal of with the town isn't to have the building sit for a long period of time. The goal is to get the construction built as soon as possible. 149 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:33.440 And as you can see from cost uh you know the cost chart that I showed you that just >> compounds every day it goes by. So hopeful that you know if we can maybe 150 00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:49.599 I'd have to ask legal as far as how a motion could be read but if there was like a contingency on the 350 that it's not spent unless we >> close >> close on the property. If we aren't closed by that time 151 00:42:49.599 --> 00:43:06.079 would that make the the finance committee feel a little bit more comfortable? Why should we spend $350,000 of the town's tax money if we don't know where the rest of the money is coming from? 152 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:22.720 >> Well, we want to get it to shovel ready so that we can get fundraising and then when it comes time >> so so the rest of the money is going to come from fundraising. >> No, the t likely the town's going to have to contribute to the cost of the construction. that the fundraising the 153 00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:38.960 feasibility study that was done a year ago projected three million over three years. This obviously exceeds that amount. So, >> right, we're so that and that's why the select board felt 154 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:55.520 it was important to expand the use. If we were if the town was going to put more money into this after saying that we weren't, you know, what else can we what else can we provide the town? um for that contribution and that's where the expanded use conversation really 155 00:43:55.520 --> 00:44:09.920 came into. >> So we're coming up with a answer to that question basically. >> Yeah. I mean I my I think that once we have it fully designed uh and have a better cost estimate of the project and 156 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:27.760 we know a higher level of commitment on the fundraising side that tells us okay how much are we going to be asking the town to contribute and then we ask the town and if the if if the town says no uh we have to think about scaling back 157 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:43.200 um we have to think about um asking again, we have to think about saying, okay, if we're not going to if we're not going to do either of those two things, then maybe we have to ask the town to authorize us to sell the 158 00:44:43.200 --> 00:44:58.400 property back. You know, there's no reason to hold on to it if we're not going to invest. So, but all of that is predicated on closing and getting the design completed. And when you look at the 159 00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:13.680 construction cost where where should you know we worked hard to fit fit out a sort of a death schedule for quite a number of years. Where should we be fitting that? I mean that this we've got I guess six7 million 160 00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:28.560 we need to fit into that picture. That's >> I mean I would I would >> three years away if if we close on the property and we're able to start the design in July. >> Mhm. it'd be completed before the end of 161 00:45:28.560 --> 00:45:45.839 the year. So, we'd have that number. Um, I would have to defer to Susan to ask, you know, how much time do you think the fundraising needs uh to get solid commitment? So, the let's say the earliest we could ask the town for 162 00:45:45.839 --> 00:46:01.839 construction money uh coupled with fundraising would be the spring of next year. Um and then you have well Essex Elementary likely would be the fall of this year. Um so then how then we would go through the 163 00:46:01.839 --> 00:46:17.359 same process that we've done as far as are we doing, you know, how it impacts the the >> Yeah, >> it does seem like it's ought to be in its own article, you know, just to kind of give it a fair 164 00:46:17.359 --> 00:46:33.839 reading and full understanding. Yeah. And it also seems like it would be useful to kind of fold it into DPWs, put it under their attention, you know, for for basic project management just as we 165 00:46:33.839 --> 00:46:50.400 have been with with other >> Yeah. And you know, I I should have done that when we got the $7 million estimate and had the conversation with the select board and there was a commitment to potentially, you know, using town funds for this expanded use that at that point 166 00:46:50.400 --> 00:47:06.480 I should have known to add it to the facility planning committee. >> Yeah. It's >> not too It's not too late. But Sardine, but it's um but it is like the condo aspect, the private public thing just is 167 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:23.119 like this incredibly complicated twist to the whole thing, >> you know, the prevailing wage versus non-prevailing wage, you know, and who builds what. And I leave that there. We're we're paying prevailing wage to build both editions, I presume, you know, just for the simplicity of having 168 00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:41.000 that one contractor. Mhm. >> But then you're you're that's a premium, you know, for the for the you know, but the the mason's portion, albeit a a small addition, but you know, it's all square footage. So anyway, 169 00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:58.000 >> I'd like to see the project keep moving. Um I think it's important. I favor the larger footprint. I think that's minimum required. Um, I'd like to have more pro confidence in the process. Like when I 170 00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:14.960 first saw the layout, the first thing that hit me is that it would be much better for the seniors if you switched the function room with the office space so that you'd have a big room overlooking the the porch and the and the parking lot rather than in the back 171 00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:30.400 corner. Um that that seemed like a very basic thing that I was surprised nobody had seen. I also questioned you know a lot of these >> you think Dean we don't want to be designing this building in the finance committee. >> No let me finish though. It's it's 172 00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:49.119 related to how how it's funded you know getting attracting investors. I think if you have something more appealing you'll get more investors. Um I also think um >> some of that some of that dean was the 173 00:48:49.119 --> 00:49:06.079 where the existing it's a slab >> uh foundation >> and we're >> to try to save cost and you know digging up the foundation to move utilities. >> You know the kitchen is staying where the kitchen is. The mechanic room is staying where and 174 00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:21.119 >> start shifting all that stuff to the >> Yeah. No, it's just shifting the function room with the offices. It was a very basic I have a sketch I did. Um I also think the kitchen you might want to enlarge because a lot of these things can get funding through um having 175 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:37.520 dinners and and banquetss and stuff and that that kitchen looked a little small for the size building. Um, so that's, you know, I think we can fund a lesser amount for maybe a 75% design to keep it 176 00:49:37.520 --> 00:49:55.119 going and maybe like the DPW had a pretty good miscellaneous building budget, like 75 grand that maybe that could be used for some of this design. I know we had given Nate 50 grand last year to to work on well, I guess the layout that we have. Um, you know, and 177 00:49:55.119 --> 00:50:12.400 we have things like 16K for DPW for for signs that may be more appropriate to spend keeping the senior center going. Um, >> signs were through CPC. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, I mean, >> it's money. >> So, these are the things 178 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:27.359 >> things too complicated. >> Well, it's a complicated process. >> One week away from needing to finalize the annual report. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not our job to redesign 179 00:50:27.359 --> 00:50:43.760 things. I'm more than happy to have every individual on the finance committee give their input >> to the people doing the design. >> Y >> but I don't think it's appropriate to do it in a finance committee meeting. We'll never end our meetings. 180 00:50:43.760 --> 00:51:00.240 >> Right. Well, I'm using a lot less time than others, but the last thing I think our whole budget is under review because what's obvious is that there's a huge tariff spike right now and that we should be minimizing what we spend right now and trying to defer things >> um because of the cost of tariffs. 181 00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:15.280 >> We have approved the budget for fiscal year 27. We are not going to reopen it and start over again. We worked on it for six months. >> Well, there's time. So, just go ahead just a thought process here. I mean, we're looking at about a 182 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:31.920 $7 million project. We're talking about needing a design to get a better cost estimate. And then we're talking about the town putting up money to do this with the hope that donations will come in later to pay the town back. 183 00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:46.880 >> And and I will >> contribute to construction. >> Yeah. And and I will say from volunteer stuff I've done in the nonprofit sector, it's very hard to fund something that's already been done. It's just a reality. Everybody says, "Well, somebody else has 184 00:51:46.880 --> 00:52:03.599 covered it. I'm going to move on." Can we switch this around a little bit? And I know it runs the risk of making the project take longer and costs are going up. But what if you did a design for shovel ready and then you said, "Let's take 24 months and figure out how much 185 00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:20.400 money we can raise." And based on the amount of money raised, the town looks at it and says, "Okay, we'll add to that and try and do 7 million or we'll try and scale back to 5 million or we'll we'll do that, you know, based on what 186 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:38.480 community support brings in on this." And and the reason I say that is I mean we're voting about $30 million worth of capital in a couple of weeks and before this next Christmas and New Year's comes along, we've got Essex Elementary and I 187 00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:53.680 think the town residents, you know, are committed to this, but these are big numbers and I feel like the story needs to be a little better and and the story if it's like we've gone out and fundraised for this thing for 24 months 188 00:52:53.680 --> 00:53:09.839 and we've raised $3 million or $2 million and the town comes back and says, "Okay, let's add four to that. I think we're going to be in a better place and trying to talk through." But I I don't think that 189 00:53:09.839 --> 00:53:25.520 changes our approach. I think you know we can make that if we if we close and have the funds to do the design >> and come springtime we haven't raised a lot of money in this room when we're 190 00:53:25.520 --> 00:53:39.920 talking about whether we want to put that on the warrant or you know include it that we we can make that decision at that time and say it's not ready yet right >> um that's why I think you know it's kind of that that's the process 191 00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:56.880 actually So, I don't know if if asking the town for construction funds uh if we're going to be ready in the spring or not, you know, based on how much fundraising or if the grants have come in yet. Obviously, we would hope, but um 192 00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:14.160 that's something that I would think would fall through, you know, the process that we go through on all of our capital projects. >> Um go ahead. just as a point of comparison with um like what happens with the school projects when they're funded through the state is you know we 193 00:54:14.160 --> 00:54:30.720 uh and what we've done with Essex is we funded this feasibility study phase which gets the project up through schematic design uh with the idea that uh there's enough there's a careful process of looking at options and uh then ultimately choosing the preferred 194 00:54:30.720 --> 00:54:46.640 approach and then that's what gets established during you know schematic design and the the budget that happens at schematic design then becomes the project budget that gets voted upon by the municipalities. Uh and that's your kind of go forward and that becomes that 195 00:54:46.640 --> 00:55:02.319 establishes your budget for the project period. Um, and I thought at one point, we were talking about this months ago, that we were really talking about, you know, needing to like prepare renderings because there was a a desire to have renderings, you know, for this for the 196 00:55:02.319 --> 00:55:19.599 use of uh fundraising, you know, which is, you know, understandable kind of need. Um, and so I'm and I and I know we're we're so there's a lot of support for the project that that that exists and I you know I respect that and but I I also I'm worried that we're trying to 197 00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:35.920 you know present a process that respects a slows down schedule like optimizing the schedule and I'm and I I'm not sure that's going to be the most cost-effective approach for the project 198 00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:50.799 in the just to just to say that. So this looks like almost like a schematic design level of documentation that we have here today. Um and it's really it's 199 00:55:50.799 --> 00:56:07.680 it's enough information to be able to choose an option it feels like. So I'm wondering you know do we need to do final design right now? Do we need to be authorizing that? Well, I this is, you know, this cost estimate is 200 00:56:07.680 --> 00:56:22.400 really, you know, >> high high level. >> Yeah. >> Um and and I think that having a truer cost estimate is going to give us the ability to make 201 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:38.960 decisions about when and how we fund construction. So delaying that just delays the next part of the process. That's how I that's and and to your point I guess 202 00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:55.200 I I feel like the the first part of the process that you illustrated with Essex, I feel like that that was, you know, the town deciding to, you know, purchase the building and saying this is this is where we're 203 00:56:55.200 --> 00:57:11.280 going, you know. So, >> um I feel like we're in that part two or three of the process you >> outlined. >> Yeah. >> Is there a contingency with the 3.7 million estimate? Because usually a preliminary estimate would have 204 00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:26.799 something like a 30% contingency assigned to it. >> Yeah, if you if you scroll to the next slide there. >> Uh yeah, the table. So, what's that? Slide five. Uh yes, slide five. 205 00:57:26.799 --> 00:57:43.680 >> Contingencies are included there, I believe. >> Must be down at the bottom. >> Glasses are too. Sorry. >> Sorry, I'm trying to get the mouse to get out. Uh, you know, we actually this 206 00:57:43.680 --> 00:58:02.240 uh the the fund the um construction estimator came back with a lower number because they're just looking at, you know, what's the cost of these trades at a square foot price, you know, and doing that and they took that 207 00:58:02.240 --> 00:58:20.960 and baked in soft costs and contingencies. I'm not sure if it's >> there's there's there is a Nate line down there. um he hadund >> in-house OPM offset >> in-house OPM offset. So that means doing it in-house as opposed to an outside. 208 00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:40.319 >> And and and just to be clear, this also doesn't include the acquisition cost. And to be fair, I think it should if we're talking the total cost, we should be including the acquisition cost. >> I just go back. So, it's it's uh $8 million rather than 7 million. 209 00:58:40.319 --> 00:58:56.079 >> I I just go back and say this isn't ready. I don't think it's fair to ask the finance committee to endorse this plan because I don't think it's a plan. I think it's a a first step. 210 00:58:56.079 --> 00:59:16.480 But as as John said, we told the town a year ago, put up the million. That's it. I think it's put this puts your volunteer finance committee in an awkward position to now go back and say, 211 00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:33.599 "Well, we don't know how much it's going to cost and we don't know where the money's coming from, but we know most of it's going to be coming from you taxpayers. How do you like it?" And they may say, "Fine, we don't care. Go ahead and start spending. Just raise our taxes." 212 00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:50.480 But we say, "Oh, by the way, we're also floating another 30 million in bonds." Uh, you know, >> I I think that's part of the discussion if we split this out into another article or speak, you know, which is fine. I think we would we have to have that discussion at town is that, you 213 00:59:50.480 --> 01:00:08.880 know, this 350 is for a project that's estimated at 7.1. We already have one uh you know invested um and it's likely that we are going to be coming back to the town for some sum 214 01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:25.119 of money uh because private fundraising isn't going to raise 7.1. >> Well, you know, I agree. I have to disagree with you. >> That's okay. >> They you don't you don't uh uh over at Powder 215 01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:41.280 >> that came on the market. what's her name? Franny Hoburn decided to sell it and she she sold it for a bargain price. But the boys that were doing it, not me, but a bunch of guys went out and said, "We got to raise a million and a half 216 01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:58.079 dollars." It took them about three weeks. Seriously, they went up and down Mascan Street, not not where I live, but uh fancy neighborhoods and they raised it. So the capacity 217 01:00:58.079 --> 01:01:16.000 for generosity is breathtaking. I still go back to Lindseay Culage who built the building next door here, that stone edifice that we, you know, use for books and he wrote a check. Now, that was a a 218 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:33.680 very long time ago, but but you know, you could argue that there are there are folks of that kind of capacity around. So, when you when somebody says we can't raise the money, well, you haven't even asked yet. 219 01:01:33.680 --> 01:01:48.160 >> So, I I think we got to reorder the process. >> Anyway, go ahead, John. >> Yes, madam chair. So I'm I'm speaking as the liaison to the seniors for the 220 01:01:48.160 --> 01:02:04.240 select board and I see them every week and of course you know the question that comes up every week where do things stand with all of this things have changed so dramatically over the last three months and the cost of this going from 3 million to doubling in a space of 221 01:02:04.240 --> 01:02:22.160 like uh what two years or so really changes the whole thought process that's involved here. I agree with Mory's comment u I don't know was it half an hour ago or 45 minutes ago that if we don't have a signed deal for all of this a lot of this discussion by by by the um 222 01:02:22.160 --> 01:02:37.440 well by certainly by the annual meeting but perhaps before this book is printed this is kind of a moot discussion we really have to have a sign deal and when's this go go to print in a week >> yes >> next weekend. >> Hey 223 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:53.440 >> next Thursday. All right. >> Okay. So, >> we've been talking every day and just going back and forth. >> Okay. Well, I would put an asterisk next to it, next to uh the line item, whether it becomes a separate article or it's part of uh what article five here as 224 01:02:53.440 --> 01:03:08.640 that. Either one. I'm okay with either one, but there has to be an asterisk next to it and maybe none if it gets signed by then so that it becomes a topic of discussion. But uh you know Susan has been working hard in terms of well what's the potential for raising 225 01:03:08.640 --> 01:03:26.000 money and but 3 million I understand that that was not too difficult a challenge with regard to the studies that she did. Now it's double that. Uh this town as Gar has mentioned has a tremendous capacity to give >> and maybe maybe that hits and we've got 226 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:40.640 to kind of figure this out. This is a fluid project as it goes along. We don't know whether we're going to have to ask the town for anything. Maybe we'll get all six million. Maybe we'll only get four million. I I think that's a little bit up in the air. We don't know. But 227 01:03:40.640 --> 01:03:57.359 certainly the town has a dog in the fight only because of the not only because of the million dollars, but you know, there'll be a couple of town offices that are in this building as well and all of that becomes uh you know, changes the overall definition of what this building will be going 228 01:03:57.359 --> 01:04:12.720 forward. So, there are a lot of different uh folks that are involved in this and players that uh will benefit from this building when it's finalized. >> Yeah. Could you just state your full name for the record? >> James Brown representing the Masons um 229 01:04:12.720 --> 01:04:27.920 from Essex, Massachusetts. >> Um my understanding was that the 7 million was a very high number. I mean, that's almost $1,000 per square foot. And when I talked to contractors, which I do regularly, they were like, "That's 230 01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:45.359 crazy. That's like twice what this is really should come in at." And um I mean, high-end stuff is $500 per square foot. Um can we talk about that? Yeah, prevailing wage is a factor in that, but but also when you go to a construction 231 01:04:45.359 --> 01:05:01.599 estimator, especially with a 10% conceptual design, not having gone into the building yet and and look at, you know, what what things will be taking on, they're going to come in high. You know, the worst thing a construction 232 01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:18.559 estimator can do is come in low. Yeah. Uh so we do expect or anticipate that this number is high if we were to go out to bid today. If we're going out to bid in here two years, three years from now might not be that far off. 233 01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:33.039 >> Y >> and I see it in here that you know the the building structure hard cost is 4 million and they have soft cost and contingency at 2 million. So there's a pretty good number. Uh, Ann, 234 01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:50.319 >> I' I'd like to correct something that Mr. Morris suggested. The 350 that we're suggesting is not coming from taxpayer money. It's coming from surplus revenues from the parks and recck department. Parks and recck 235 01:05:50.319 --> 01:06:06.640 department will benefit from this building a lot. So when you say you're asking the taxpayers to fund design, no, we are asking the parks and wreck to fund the design. And >> how did the tax how did the parks get the 350 236 01:06:06.640 --> 01:06:23.680 >> fees >> from >> taxpayers? No, >> people who sign up for programs and it's not this is not tax. Well, >> I think we're dicing the salon a little thin air. >> This is not taxed office. 237 01:06:23.680 --> 01:06:37.520 It's not forced. It's not forced uh payment. >> Andrea, how much is in that revolving account >> right now? Uh Chelle's been doing really good collecting for >> Oh, remember today's number? 238 01:06:37.520 --> 01:06:54.240 >> Um it's about like $800,000 right now. >> How much is required to run the program? >> We really need like 300 to because we take it a lot right now. Yep. 239 01:06:54.240 --> 01:07:09.680 >> The lowest month might be 300 to 350. >> Well, we like to keep the 300 over. Yeah. >> A little This is a little confusing because that revolving fund could be used for some other parks and Rex thing 240 01:07:09.680 --> 01:07:27.680 which would offset taxpayer contributions. >> Bath house. >> Yeah. So, you know, this is definitely a gray area here and I'm not I'm not sure we get anywhere by saying it's not taxpayer money or it is taxpayer money. It's it's all in the lawn here. So a 241 01:07:27.680 --> 01:07:45.280 bunch of button. Yeah, basically >> well remember we did talk when I was here doing my budget we can't use it for the bath house with the past program related. So the recreation side, >> but for example, like if we had to do redo turf field or something like that, 242 01:07:45.280 --> 01:08:03.760 >> which is a big one, and that comes rolling up every seven years or something >> that I mean that's it's an offset, >> right? >> So >> So we didn't just we used it. >> Yeah. >> Also, you're going to be increasing your programs, 243 01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:22.319 >> right, once we build. >> So it is an investment in I think the bath house is a recreation facility because we get most of our income through singing beach. >> Well, it's a separate budget. We don't do programs, >> but that's just accounting. I think that 244 01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:37.520 money can ultimately be used for a bath house if we want >> legal things. >> No, it's a the way the revolving fund is set up is just for programs. >> Use a revolving fund. That's >> But but the singing beach money doesn't go into the revolving fund. I mean, we 245 01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:57.600 could have a beach revolving fund, I guess. >> So, Andrea, sort of a mechanical question or Tony, if if we said, "All right, let's try to use 350 of the revolving fund for this process and and there is not a an 246 01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:14.319 agreement signed by printing of the book or town meeting. Does that money go back to the revolving fund or does it go to free cash?" Goes to revolving fund. Okay. >> Would never be spent. >> Come out. Never spend it. Yeah. >> No, I'm just there's there's money that gets allocated for things and then it 247 01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:30.640 doesn't get spent. We know where it goes. So, I'm just asking where does it go? >> And Tony, picking up on that this approach. If if we get signed and we hadn't had the 350 and all of that, can can the select board can we get closer 248 01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:47.120 to the concept of looking how the fundraising is doing before we get into the construction figuring out where this goes in the capital budget and all the capital projects that we've talked about so thoroughly. I just think the opportunity 249 01:09:47.120 --> 01:10:04.800 to the 24 months some period of time for fundraising which gets suggested as being realistic would be an important step before we go into construction and get in maybe 7 million or 6 million whatever the number turns out to be. Is that an acceptable 250 01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:18.640 that there there be a time period that we look at how the fundraising is doing over a realistic period of time before we all then commit or don't commit to another large borrowing of money? 251 01:10:18.640 --> 01:10:36.000 >> I think we I the I guess yes partially. Um, I think that every prep season for town meeting moving forward, we would look at where is the fundraising, what's the current 252 01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:52.320 cost estimate, what's the escalation from the last year and have to do that analysis and decide, are we ready, you know, to go to town meeting? If we go to town meeting, um, is it going to stall fundraising? Um, so we'd have to do that 253 01:10:52.320 --> 01:11:08.560 in the spring and if not in the spring then and we're going to do a fall timing we would have do that analysis again if not then the following. You know the hopefully it's sooner than later but I think we kind of go through that process >> because I think we need to give the fundraising a real opportunity to 254 01:11:08.560 --> 01:11:24.159 demonstrate itself for all the reasons you've heard discuss. I'm very anxious to move forward with this. we've talked about a long time was first thing we talked about when I got on the fin. Um, but I want to be sure that there can be that time to get the fundraising have a 255 01:11:24.159 --> 01:11:40.159 real opportunity to raise some material amount of money before we all get into then going back to the town and saying it's X now because we raised some but not all. That that does that work is the question. 256 01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:55.440 >> I I think the answer is yes. I think we're we're going through that process leading up to a town meeting and deciding whether it makes sense, whether it's ready for town meeting action or not based on that and a number of other factors. 257 01:11:55.440 --> 01:12:11.040 >> Yeah. >> So, would a potential solution be to um fund a lesser amount now and look for progress before special town meeting and funding more? I mean, do we we don't have to do the whole 350 now? Maybe we 258 01:12:11.040 --> 01:12:28.640 >> give them 50,000 or 100,000 and if we see progress at special town meeting, >> we can go again at that point. >> What's the definition of project progress? I'm sorry. I don't know what that means. >> Um some funding pledges, some uh better 259 01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:44.560 between now. You they're going to continue the design work is what that would keep the project going. uh I don't recommend going to 100% maybe 75% because there might be more changes down the road but enough to keep things rolling uh is my concern that if we 260 01:12:44.560 --> 01:13:10.480 don't do something now that it's you know not moving I don't I don't I don't agree um or see what that solves. Um I think that you know we have 261 01:13:10.480 --> 01:13:27.360 we have the funds available um to spend you know keeping the progress moving forward at 50% 75% or 100% I don't think that's going to have a real factor you know how I guess what level design we're 262 01:13:27.360 --> 01:13:42.239 funding I don't think is going to have much of a factor on what fundraising comes in and I think it just makes sense to keep the ball rolling get this to shovel ready and then and then you're evaluating 263 01:13:42.239 --> 01:13:58.159 what the true cost is and when or whether you're you're you know asking for how much to move into construction. >> How did you come up with the 350,000 then? I got a quote from uh John Harden 264 01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:18.239 who did the conceptual design. >> Yeah, like I said, it might be closer to 325, but building a little extra in there. >> That's their design fee, not construction admin services. That's >> right. That's just to get us to procurement ready. They had 350 in their 265 01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:35.440 estimate their budget in the table or design estimated >> 5% >> 10% actually >> no it's 5% of 7 million right million >> well the hard cost was like 4 million 266 01:14:35.440 --> 01:14:53.199 >> oh okay >> bigger bigger question is if we have this kind of money in reserves in the revolving fund maybe we're charging too much in fees I mean, if this is for playground services, >> that's not up for discussion at this meeting. 267 01:14:53.199 --> 01:15:12.159 >> Yeah. >> That's that is nothing that the finance committee weighs in on >> the fees of the playground. >> Correct. >> I have another question for Andrea. So, um, Cheryl, if you have a really good 268 01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:28.239 year and and a lot comes in from programs, that keeps building the revolving front >> and that's where it kind of lives, right? It doesn't it doesn't shed out to other things. I mean, it's very 269 01:15:28.239 --> 01:15:43.280 narrowly, you know, I'm thinking in the commercial world like net income that goes in all different directions. So, how >> are we paying 100% of the program director salary out of it? No, >> no, not the not the full-time program 270 01:15:43.280 --> 01:15:59.280 fulltime employees and benefits from that fund. >> Could we fund the Pine Street Lawn AED out of it? I mean, so >> we're not going there. Okay. I mean, I'm I'm sorry, Dean. >> Yeah. Well, these are just 271 01:15:59.280 --> 01:16:15.120 >> we can't throwing up trial balloons. >> So, this this is very insightful. Um, could we be could we set a a limit on the revolving fund and try to pull as much from it each year to cover as much 272 01:16:15.120 --> 01:16:31.360 of Cheryl's costs as possible? >> We have there is a legal >> we have a right. >> Yeah. So, um, >> 550. >> Okay. But right now we're at >> 700. Well, I know it's seasonal because you've got money coming in. You haven't 273 01:16:31.360 --> 01:16:46.880 spent it yet, right? But that's going to float somewhere around five or 600. Right. >> Right. And so every year in our local receipts and things, I actually transfer money from the revolving fund to help offset some of the Okay. >> program costs in her department. 274 01:16:46.880 --> 01:17:02.960 >> Um it's just not like >> it's one of those like indirect costs that's kind of built in in the back. >> So like you do water and sewer. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. So and I actually just increased that from 50 to 75,000. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah. Okay, >> Andy, 275 01:17:02.960 --> 01:17:18.000 >> what does the facilities committee do? I'm not sure I understand. I'd like to get I'd like to get this building into the regular part of the buildings of the of the town if it were to get into that work is that what is it? What's the function that we're doing? Setting 276 01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:34.080 priorities. Well, it's it's it's looking at various projects like this like uh the one of the primary focuses recently has been the you know the idea of a DBW facility um and potentially DBW plus public safety >> and is that setting priorities in terms 277 01:17:34.080 --> 01:17:50.080 of what things get addressed when >> yeah it's a lot of that kind of discussion that's a lot of discussion about the mechanics of um you know what's the best way to go forward um you know so we talked a lot about you know the same kind of thing that I've mentioned tonight you know the idea you know, generating a schematic design 278 01:17:50.080 --> 01:18:07.199 that allows you to, you know, develop a budget um and uh and and to be able to decide whether to move a project forward or not. Um because, you know, as you can see, there's a lot of slip and slide with these numbers. You know, the three to seven is a, you know, that might not 279 01:18:07.199 --> 01:18:22.719 be the end of the story. You know, just being realistic about it. Um and so you know the there's there's a lot of discussion about you know site selection like where can the thing go you know what is it what are 280 01:18:22.719 --> 01:18:39.520 the the pros and cons of one site versus another um what are the what are the pros and cons of doing uh DBW and then potentially later uh public safety or what happens when you do them together you know that's and >> this exists outside of all of that 281 01:18:39.520 --> 01:18:56.239 >> consideration Um, >> I mean this building this >> Yeah. I I honestly can't recall that we've talked about it. Um, >> yeah. >> I mean to me it ought to get into the >> Yeah. >> get into that review and be part of I 282 01:18:56.239 --> 01:19:13.120 mean it's a town building or it's a town condo, >> you know, it's and and how can we do that? I do remember discussing it in one of the early facility planning meetings that I was a part of as a future project, but we didn't get into 283 01:19:13.120 --> 01:19:30.080 >> just Yeah, we haven't really we haven't pulled it apart or anything, you know, we haven't really looked at anything. Um, >> but uh, you know, like we talked about the, you know, the the addition over at the Lincoln Street Well, you know, that'll house the filtration for the beach pass. That's that's been a topic. 284 01:19:30.080 --> 01:19:44.719 Um, so >> it too late at this point to get into that? >> I don't think so necessarily. And you know, and I would imagine Tony, I mean, it looks like you've got a little bit of interaction with Nate uh in here and Chuck, I'm assuming uh that have brought 285 01:19:44.719 --> 01:20:00.640 us to where we are. Um, but uh I I don't know that it would have brought us to a different place, but it's looking the intent of the facilities planning committee was to look at all these kinds of projects in context. 286 01:20:00.640 --> 01:20:17.920 I think that's useful. It seems to me we can put together some ideas here. Um that it needs to get into that process if if we don't think it's too late. I mean I I you know it's a build it's a given but um we understand that we're going to take a 287 01:20:17.920 --> 01:20:34.480 look at this when we do some serious fundraising over some reasonable period of time. We understand that the money is not going to get spent unless the building gets purchased. I mean on some conditions on the on the >> well and I think that it's not going to be spent till July 1st. So there's time for the facilities planning committee to 288 01:20:34.480 --> 01:20:50.800 look at it before July 1st would be my >> is there I I don't I have no idea what your schedule is >> and I'll tell you you know like just again using the DPW the idea of a DPW project as as a as a concept the there was a lot of discussion about trying to 289 01:20:50.800 --> 01:21:07.360 move forward and fully fund the design and we said well hold on you know maybe we don't need maybe we don't want to go that far yet you know let's take it in pieces and we use the uh MSBA VA, you know, uh, K12 school process as a as a 290 01:21:07.360 --> 01:21:23.440 basis, uh, that I thought was useful. I can see that there's there's a lot of work that's been done here already that's evident. You know, they've done the programming and the planning. They've, you know, sized things. They they have a lot of information here. It might just be a little bit more detail 291 01:21:23.440 --> 01:21:39.120 that needs to be, you know, provided to a cost estimator or pay a contractor to come in and develop pricing for you to be able to get a more accurate number. Um, that would be an alternative. I'm not suggesting you, you know, pull up stakes and go in that direction. And u 292 01:21:39.120 --> 01:21:55.920 you know I kind of feel like you know on the as a fincom member yeah we're responsible for you know commenting on cost but it's also we also need to respond to you know the will of the select board if they're you know if they really want to take this up and have it move forward and ultimately it's a 293 01:21:55.920 --> 01:22:12.000 decision for the voters at town meeting. Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, you know, the um part of I think part of speaking for the board and our discussions, you know, part of >> speak for the board, I speak for me. >> I'll speak for the board. 294 01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:28.159 >> Go ahead. Part of the part of why the select board was in favor of adding this and I know it's late in the process that we're in, but part of that is as we've gone through the negotiations with the Masons and looking back at the 295 01:22:28.159 --> 01:22:43.520 original negotiations of the purchase and sale. It was always that we weren't buying the building and then sitting with the building as is for a long period of time. Mhm. >> There's desire on the town side to move 296 01:22:43.520 --> 01:22:58.800 quickly for a number of different reasons. There's desire on the Mason side to move quickly and that is a factor or a part of the deal that we're negotiating with the Masons. So, um, that was another kind of factor on the 297 01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:17.600 timing side of why, you know, we were we we we explored seeking earmark funding from the state to pay for the design, but ran into, you know, a limit on 100 to 150,000. And that wouldn't be 298 01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:33.600 um if approved potentially for the next fiscal year. Typically those earmarks you're not allowed to spend until uh after 9 C cuts which happens in January of next year. So that wasn't really fell into the timeline. We talked about 299 01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:49.280 fundraising and Susan was you know having those quiet conversations to see if she could get some commitment >> to the tune of 350,000 and she's gotten some but not not that much. Um so you 300 01:23:49.280 --> 01:24:06.000 know and we talked to uh we also talked to you know congressman's office same thing you know the timing is just that even if we got money from them for design it wouldn't come in until much later. So this was the way to we 301 01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:22.239 had funds and yeah >> we could move quickly on it and not and kind of stick to some of the commitments that were made as part of this. Well, I'm trying to see if we can get this to move forward because I think it's important in general with some understandings about what the process 302 01:24:22.239 --> 01:24:38.880 will be as it goes forward >> with the facilities committee, with the purchase and sale, >> with the fundraising. I mean, to me, those those are the variables that I see. And the fundraising, I think we got to give it a chance. I I like many 303 01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:54.080 people here have done some fundraising and you know having the funds I I I think getting them in it changes quite a bit if the town suddenly comes forward with a substantial amount of money and sort of seems to initiate the need for the for the giving. 304 01:24:54.080 --> 01:25:09.600 So, I guess my question is how how can we put this together, Tony, so we get >> some integration into the town building system and and some time for the fundraising to have some results that 305 01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:25.360 >> we we can catch, you know, the facility planning committee up to speed pretty quickly and have them be involved in the next part of the design phase. Um, and then obviously after that, um, I think 306 01:25:25.360 --> 01:25:44.000 in speaking with Susan, I think, you know, when she's talking to fundraisers, you know, they they want to fund raise for, you know, construction. They don't they don't really want to fund raise for design. They want to they want their money going to brick and mortar. 307 01:25:44.000 --> 01:26:01.600 Uh so I think that you know this step actually >> so if we gave it >> creates more or 18 months or something that there should be I mean because this would be bricks and mortar >> it could come in faster >> if it goes to the facilities planning committee then they can give input and 308 01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:18.400 we don't necessarily have to spend all the 350 even if it's allocated. >> Okay. I mean, I I think that we don't need to solve the problem tonight regarding the appropriation because we're a ways away from that. Okay. 309 01:26:18.400 --> 01:26:34.960 >> And hold on just a minute because Muffin Driscoll has been waiting patiently to >> make my virtue. So, it's been to me that this become its its own article because 310 01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:50.800 one of the things we love most about this town is we have a town meeting form of government and we talk about things on town meeting 4. If this is a standalone article, there can be conversation about it and it 311 01:26:50.800 --> 01:27:09.120 passes or it doesn't. The need to have that public conversation from my perspective is very important for the fundraising aspect of all of this. Potential donors 312 01:27:09.120 --> 01:27:25.840 need to know that there's support across all generations in this town for this project. My opinion, my perspective. So if we can make it its standalone article, 313 01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:41.440 we all go talk about it. We pass over that article if there is not a signed sealed in the hands of God document the evening of town meeting. we just 314 01:27:41.440 --> 01:27:57.280 pass over. >> Or you could we could have a >> I mean hopefully it's signed and sealed by then, but you could even have a contingency that the approach appropriation is subject to >> if that's what was decided on. 315 01:27:57.280 --> 01:28:14.080 >> Tony, we did that last year. I mean, I I think that we're two years into this and you know, I think it needs to be signed and sealed before town meeting or we should pass it before printing of your book. >> I do. 316 01:28:14.080 --> 01:28:30.239 >> You've heard it here. >> Well, the other thing is what we should be voting on tonight is whether or not to support the article finance committee. So, if we say no, how does that look? We better off not even having it than just having it and saying no. 317 01:28:30.239 --> 01:28:50.600 >> We have to look at all the >> right. >> So how should we proceed? >> So is there anybody on Zoom who wishes to participate in this discussion briefly? If so raise your hand in Zoom. 318 01:28:55.600 --> 01:29:11.880 It's a good night. I don't see anybody raising their hand. >> Lucky. >> Okay. Um, so we are we in agreement that we feel it needs to be a separate article. >> Yes. >> Okay. 319 01:29:14.320 --> 01:29:30.800 >> I me I'm I'm fine with everything. of but the select board will be meeting and >> on the 30th. So on the 30th >> but I'll have it I'll have these adjustments made and sent to you 320 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:46.159 know by Monday >> and so that way that way hey they're what is going in the book is what the select board is signing off on on the 30th for print for uh posting >> as I'm meeting on the 30th. We were 321 01:29:46.159 --> 01:30:02.480 meeting on the 30th. >> Yeah. >> Anton Tony, can we get to the facilities and do some I mean did I don't know how often do you meet? I I just I don't know anything the dynamic. >> Uh monthly maybe. >> Well, I think that's just for Tony. We 322 01:30:02.480 --> 01:30:18.400 don't think we don't need to micromanage it. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. So Sarah is your thought that that the foreign article will be put together for our next meeting a week from today. We would vote on that recommendation. >> Yeah. 323 01:30:18.400 --> 01:30:35.679 >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I I think as you've stated, I think it's good to have a hard number in there as opposed to number to be determined on town meeting floor. >> But on Monday Exactly. Does the finance committee 324 01:30:35.679 --> 01:30:58.159 recommend approval for spending $350,000 design? >> Yes. >> I want to get facilities involved because it's making that decision. >> Yes. >> Well, they're not going to be involved before we have to make those decisions. >> But just because the 350,000 is 325 01:30:58.159 --> 01:31:13.360 appropriated does not mean it has to be spent. >> Exactly. But in deciding whether we're poor against something, >> you know, I I appreciate some guidance from people who look at building stuff. >> Yeah. 326 01:31:13.360 --> 01:31:34.480 >> Okay. >> So, I don't feel like we're really really ready to vote on the warrants until we have a final warrant. >> That's up to you. I The warrant everything's there. The only thing that is going to change is number 18 out of 327 01:31:34.480 --> 01:31:49.760 article five will become its own numbered article and I may move tap and street down in the list of uh capital items but it'll all that's going to change the 328 01:31:49.760 --> 01:32:05.920 number on the article >> on the school article. Do we normally have only one warrant article and three motions? >> Yes. Okay, that's what I wasn't sure. >> I think Pam usually gets up and speaks 329 01:32:05.920 --> 01:32:22.800 to all three, right? >> She does. >> We make recommendations on any of these warrant articles, the numbers. We need to know the dollar amount we're recommending. And this is just generic. There's no there's not dollar amounts. 330 01:32:22.800 --> 01:32:43.360 >> Oh, you mean if you I know what she means for those those two that we talking >> like how it looks in the book, >> right? Yes. Yeah. >> That um the >> number I had about that. >> The other question I had was with 331 01:32:43.360 --> 01:33:01.199 respect to some of these capital articles. The PFA big PAS one goes into all this stuff about being offset by grants and all these other possible funding sources 332 01:33:01.199 --> 01:33:17.280 but then we get to like the covert and it's my understanding we've applied for a grant and there's no mention of offsetting it by grants. Can we do that? The PAS the PAS language is specifically 333 01:33:17.280 --> 01:33:34.719 required by the SRF program. So we got that language from uh bond council through SRF and we included our standard language as well because we may not go through SRF. It depends on how the bids come back a 334 01:33:34.719 --> 01:33:50.400 couple weeks prior to town meeting. So, we basically put language for both borrowing opportunities. Um, but uh we could >> I'm just wondering if you can reference 335 01:33:50.400 --> 01:34:07.600 >> for the culvert grants. >> I could ask Yeah. >> legal counsel if we could >> add some language in there that I'll have to ask. >> And same thing with other funding sources or something. I mean, there's still the possibility on 336 01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:23.840 the rotunda that depending on the timing of the construction, it's possible there's an opportunity for another year of money from CPC. >> If we haven't concluded the construction 337 01:34:23.840 --> 01:34:40.080 and issued the long-term bond by June of 27, I mean, we think we're going to, but we don't know, >> right? My like my standard usually is when we have a project I have a certain like order of where I take funds from. So I always take like you know cash and 338 01:34:40.080 --> 01:34:56.239 have first and then you know borrowing would be the last bucket. So if we were to get a grant that would you know supersede the bond bucket if you will. >> Okay. Can you give me can you give me the the list of the order in which you go through things and I'll speak to it. 339 01:34:56.239 --> 01:35:12.080 >> Sure. >> Okay. I I agree with you, Senator, that this some of these are things that we should speak to rather than putting in the book. >> I hope I have more than two minutes. >> Nice to you. I >> feel about that. 340 01:35:12.080 --> 01:35:27.920 >> Okay. >> So, I had some questions on the wording. Um >> for what? So for Tapen Street they mentioned that it in in the 4 million is mentioned resurfacing the street but normally >> I think the resurfacing part comes from 341 01:35:27.920 --> 01:35:45.040 the 450,000 in the >> no >> resurfacing budget the way Chuck's >> handles it usually >> that's not what he did for Pleasant Street. Everything came out of the article for Pleasant Street. >> Okay. So then that so the 450 it does 342 01:35:45.040 --> 01:36:01.360 not include tax. Right. That's resurfacing of Thanks for coming. >> Um that's for resurfacing of other things that are not part of the huge projects where they replace the water and sewer. >> Right. Okay. And the second one, 343 01:36:01.360 --> 01:36:17.040 >> correct? >> Okay. The second one was like it sounds like when they're saying excluding funding within the cap that it means it's like outside the funding of the cap, but most of these are not are going to be within the cap, right? No, these are debt exclusions. 344 01:36:17.040 --> 01:36:31.199 >> All of them? >> Yes. >> Outside the cap. >> Correct. So there's there's two caps. There's the 2 and a half% which is the cap on the operating budget 345 01:36:31.199 --> 01:36:47.840 increase each year plus growth. That is a general called a Prop 2 and a half override. Then every project which has long-term debt and we're issuing a debt exclusion 346 01:36:47.840 --> 01:37:03.840 that is an override for the duration of the project. >> So I thought we were going to designate a lot of the stuff the the debt be funded within the cap or the operating costs. >> No, the whole point of it of going after 347 01:37:03.840 --> 01:37:18.880 the bonding which is why we have the spreadsheet which is showing us the possible in in act on the tax rate is that this is being funded from debt exclusions. Now the actual amount funded 348 01:37:18.880 --> 01:37:34.159 will be different than these numbers. This is this is the maximum they need to go out to bid on the project. Then the bid comes in for the project and then all these other monies we're going to get from the sky, 349 01:37:34.159 --> 01:37:50.480 we'll reduce them and then the actual amount we fund we fund is what it costs us to build. But we're authorizing this amount which is why we have for another project. Are we using that million? 350 01:37:50.480 --> 01:38:05.520 >> The dredge. >> Yeah. >> No. >> Okay. >> I don't believe. Yeah. >> Okay. I thought you uh I thought the finance committee wasn't interested in doing that. I think it was um >> you know we 351 01:38:05.520 --> 01:38:21.280 >> it was complicated. >> Complicated explaining it to the res. >> So what we we need to do is we need to circle back around on projects once she issues the long-term bonds and then go back to town meeting to reduce the 352 01:38:21.280 --> 01:38:43.360 appropriation for act what we actually bought. We haven't done that routinely, but that's something we need to do >> just to tighten things up. >> Any other things that you want addressed in these 353 01:38:43.360 --> 01:39:00.560 articles when they're final? There was an issue I found out tonight that was upsetting and that is um Bion has started construction of the floats for this Reed Park expansion that we haven't even voted on yet and I'm wondering how he can do that. 354 01:39:00.560 --> 01:39:18.000 >> Reed Park is 100% paid by grants. It's not on this. >> But Reed Park is not on this. >> We haven't gotten the grant yet. We haven't voted to accept the grant. We haven't voted to match the grant yet. We don't have a match on the grant. >> There's 113,000 that we have to pay. 355 01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:33.199 >> That's Morris Pier. >> Morris Pier. >> That's not Reed Park. There two separate We have nothing in the capital budget for Reed Park. Am I correct? >> Correct. >> But see that grant we only approved the application 356 01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:49.760 and you know it's just the tip of the iceberg on operating costs down the road >> for that expansion. I that's going to be stuck in out of the town meeting. >> Correct. >> It's I don't believe it's a finance committee function to accept grants, 357 01:39:49.760 --> 01:40:05.679 >> right? If the select board Well, the town does it, doesn't it? Right. >> But it's not on the warrant. >> It's not on the warrant. >> He he has he has certainly has the ability to start construction on that. It's funded through the grant. >> Did we accept the Did we ac did the town 358 01:40:05.679 --> 01:40:21.040 meeting accept the grant last year? Select board would accept a grant. It wouldn't be a town meeting. >> Okay. >> It seems like an article we're voting on in town meeting. Reed Park expansion. It's an article we're voting on in town meeting. 359 01:40:21.040 --> 01:40:37.600 >> No, we are not. Reed Park is not in >> it's included in the in the in the language, isn't it? >> No. Morris Pier is in this year's budget. Reed Park is not. >> If you look what? >> Okay. I I I didn't bring the wording 360 01:40:37.600 --> 01:40:52.639 with me. I double check. >> More spear and harbor improvements. But I >> and Harbor improvements >> the the >> No, the matches for the grant we received for Mors Pier. 361 01:40:52.639 --> 01:41:14.000 >> Well, I think this town is being played like a symphony as the residents get kicked out of their own harbor and I think it's atrocious. So, that's all I'll say about that. So, we're going to put numbers into this as much as we can. That correct? 362 01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:30.639 >> Yes. >> Sarah, when we get the final version next week, is that when we sort of go through and say we're neighbor or not, >> we we're going to make a comment on this or we're not going to make a comment on this. >> Yes. >> Okay. I mean, do you want to go through 363 01:41:30.639 --> 01:41:45.600 some tonight and say if it's not if it's not ready? I think it's >> the problem. >> I think can we tackle it next week early in the agenda? >> In prior years as we've gone through the warrant >> made approvals and then all the numbers 364 01:41:45.600 --> 01:42:04.639 change. What s what is the strategy as far as like suppose we get to this article the new article about senior housing plan it's going to say we want to spend some money this is why 365 01:42:04.639 --> 01:42:18.719 and if we can afford it without like a no right or anything is our strategy to appine and say yeah we can afford it so if you want go ahead or we don't appine because it's just really a voter's choice just like 366 01:42:18.719 --> 01:42:34.960 >> no money we make a recommendation on every financial article on the zoning articles we'll say we don't take a position >> or at least that's what >> historic a clear choice like we want to 367 01:42:34.960 --> 01:42:52.239 spend $5,000 on something exponential but it doesn't really matter >> everything it's kind of a voter's choice >> no no we feel I I don't think that's the approach we take. >> I think our approach is we're telling 368 01:42:52.239 --> 01:43:08.560 the taxpayer whether the finance committee feels this is a reasonable item to spend taxpayer money on and it's up for the taxpayers to determine whether they agree with us 369 01:43:08.560 --> 01:43:23.600 or not. >> Kind of better at your side basically. >> Yes. Yeah. And then if we're not going to recommend something, then I have to be able to explain at a town meeting as to why we don't >> recommend it. But we we haven't had 370 01:43:23.600 --> 01:43:40.560 things recently that we haven't recommend. >> And sometimes we get into gray areas like >> I think a year or two ago there was a thought process of should the town be involved with taking care of trees that were the typical 11 ft from the center of the road out to 17 ft. And when we 371 01:43:40.560 --> 01:43:56.639 figured out how many more trees were added to the responsibilities like 2,000. >> So, so that was suddenly like an expense element that we didn't want to go there. >> And and I mean not I don't know I haven't read these articles carefully enough but if something popped up that 372 01:43:56.639 --> 01:44:13.679 had a significant impact on tax revenue we might want to think about that. >> Yeah. The revenue side. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So on this one about the US Constitution. Oh, I would think >> is a petition. Yeah. >> I mean, do we take a position on that or 373 01:44:13.679 --> 01:44:30.400 >> I would think there's no financial implication. So, >> okay. All right. All right. Good. >> Normally, >> take no position. >> It would just be hard not to take a position on that article 18 for the senior center if it were to appear. 374 01:44:30.400 --> 01:44:46.800 >> Oh, we have to take a position on that. We have to either say yes or no. >> Yes. any financial thing, we have to take a position whether we want to or not. >> So, it'll be appropriate next week to I I have some questions on these, but I'll wait hold that until we have the 375 01:44:46.800 --> 01:45:04.280 discussion next week on the warrant. Is that >> unless there's questions that are going to impact the way they're written, then we should discuss them tonight. >> Well, >> we have no time for changes next week. >> Ah, Tony, what is Article 24 all about? 376 01:45:04.400 --> 01:45:23.280 I'm sorry, just unfamiliar what 24 is all about street. Yeah, that all about >> uh this was a resident that um >> came to the select board to well >> a property owner >> a property owner that uh came to the select board and requested 377 01:45:23.280 --> 01:45:40.560 uh that the ability to purchase this abu abuing 900 square foot property that we own. >> I see. And um in order to do that, you need a town meeting vote to authorize the surplus of >> It was a long history behind it >> and and we I believe we retain the right 378 01:45:40.560 --> 01:45:55.760 to go across the property to maintain the sequel, >> right? >> Yep. Thank you. >> Can we buy it for $350,000 on the seat? Sorry. >> Sell it. Sell it for 350. >> I don't know. I don't know. 379 01:45:55.760 --> 01:46:12.080 >> Is there a number Tony for the 910 square feet? We have um >> we have we we would be required to get uh well the >> assess >> yeah assessed value will be identified here but for town meeting because that question will come up 380 01:46:12.080 --> 01:46:29.280 >> appraisal or assess >> assess and then if approved uh they would be required to pay for an appraisal >> we kind of need a cash number right >> what >> a cash number Yeah. 381 01:46:29.280 --> 01:46:44.000 >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, we would go off of an we'll have an assessed value >> in the or warrant out >> for town meeting that and the appraisal value is going to be pretty close to that where it's just land. 382 01:46:44.000 --> 01:46:58.639 >> They pay the appraisal value appraised value. >> They pay for the appraisal. >> We need a hard number that we're probably going to get them this much money. >> Is this the rightway from the end of Sawmill Circle to Mor Street? >> No. >> No. It's just it's the first little 383 01:46:58.639 --> 01:47:16.400 corner of grass as Sono Brook starts to turn around. The houses on the right side >> Elm Street on the on the west side east side. >> East side. Okay. Y >> there's a uh >> one >> there's a there's a plan that identifies it that'll be an appendix as well to the 384 01:47:16.400 --> 01:47:35.199 book. >> Thank you. I just so you know what I'll do is I'll likely what I'll do for that for for the senior center I'll make that article >> six I'll have it come right after article five 385 01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:59.040 and then I'll bump everything down. >> Okay. Yep. >> Okay. Any other Did you have any other questions? No, not this evening. >> Did anybody have any questions for Tony on this one? Okay. 386 01:47:59.040 --> 01:48:15.840 But I expect that next week we'll vote on it >> with no change with I mean it's got to go to print. >> Yep. >> I'm in deep trouble. Um income book. >> Is that the next time? Oh, do Tony or 387 01:48:15.840 --> 01:48:30.960 Andrea, do you have anything you wanted to raise? >> No. tonight. >> Okay. We're not going to get to the long-term capital budget review, I guess. Is that right? Um, one thing anyway. 388 01:48:30.960 --> 01:48:47.920 Yes. I mean, I one one of the things I distributed to you, I think it was today, >> I don't think I was clever enough to send it yesterday, was the bond information for the Essex Elementary School. >> Yes. Yes. And I asked Andrea to 389 01:48:47.920 --> 01:49:04.239 incorporate that into this spreadsheet even though >> okay >> the numbers are certainly not definite. >> I mean they >> sure >> they assumed an $80 million project. >> Andy said that was a little more than he 390 01:49:04.239 --> 01:49:22.040 heard >> before after MSBA >> before they they they bonded 56.3. So they assumed onethird from MS. Okay. Yeah. >> Thank you very 391 01:49:22.159 --> 01:49:43.119 more often. >> Five minutes to copy. >> Where is the spin book? >> Right here. >> Yeah. Draft of the >> Is there a draft yet? No. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> There you go. Yeah. 392 01:49:43.119 --> 01:49:58.000 >> Got it. Thanks. >> But I did want to go through the charts from last year and see if there's any changes we want. >> Okay, that's what I wanted you to know. >> Um, so this 393 01:49:58.000 --> 01:50:18.400 this second page do so I had written up kind of the explanation of calculating the tax rate and the bond stuff. that I'm going to explain the capital projects. Do we want this table to go in 394 01:50:18.400 --> 01:50:34.320 the book? >> Way too complicated >> with the capital what >> way too complicated. >> Way too complicated. >> If you reference the website, add it there where it's easier to digest. This print is pretty small. >> Yeah. 395 01:50:34.320 --> 01:50:50.080 >> Now you put it into this size format. You're going to need a microscope to read it. >> Yes. what you're doing here. >> So, so just put a bad link in. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I think the website sounds like a 396 01:50:50.080 --> 01:51:08.639 fabulous idea. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, so this will be okay. >> We might be able to condense it in a sentence or something like >> Oh, I'm Yeah, >> I think I sent something out last week. 397 01:51:08.639 --> 01:51:47.920 Yeah. Okay. And this is so our estimated tax rate increase for fiscal year 27 is 1.75%. Okay. And then we have 398 01:51:47.920 --> 01:52:05.920 >> the No. And that includes all the debt service on these capital projects. >> Yes. >> Because it's interested, right? >> So there's no additional taxes for these capital projects for fiscal 399 01:52:05.920 --> 01:52:23.280 year 27. What a deal. Our taxes are only going to go up one and three/4ers percent. How am I going to explain that? >> Um, a chunk of that is the capital exclusion is decreased. >> Right. >> So that that 1.7 doesn't include the 400 01:52:23.280 --> 01:52:39.599 capital exclusion. >> It does not. >> Does not. >> Is there other stuff? It does not include >> just the capital exclusion. It includes all like the previous debt. It doesn't include any of these borrowings below. 401 01:52:39.599 --> 01:52:56.400 >> But aren't the borrowings included in the debt service we're approving or not? >> I thought you >> Yes. >> I thought you had >> interest only. >> So I I I need to move this column over. 402 01:52:56.400 --> 01:53:12.000 I included too much in the FY27. I'll update and resend. >> Okay. >> Right. So because I I want to be able to differentiate between what's actually going to hit in the tax rate fiscal year 403 01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:29.599 27 and what will ultimately hit in subsequent years when we take out the long-term >> bonds. Question for you on this chart. >> Which chart? >> This is this is on the phone. >> All right. Look for the one with a 404 01:53:29.599 --> 01:53:44.880 little band in the middle. >> It's the page. >> Yeah. I only want the one million. I don't want the others. They're >> But I'm wondering are the are the dates up above? We have fiscal year 202122. Shouldn't those be future? >> You're not you're not trying to estimate 405 01:53:44.880 --> 01:54:00.239 something from the past. >> This is the history. >> Yeah. This was we put this together to show this was part of a exercise we were doing with the select board to kind of show the history of the tax bill or the 406 01:54:00.239 --> 01:54:15.360 tax rate. >> Um and the tax bill for those value homes going back and then it has FY27. That's yours. >> No, mine doesn't 27. So >> I think I copied over. 407 01:54:15.360 --> 01:54:34.840 >> Oh, all right. The one that we ended up Got it. Okay. >> This is the tax rate. >> So you're trying to show the >> but this isn't going to go in the book. >> Oh >> this is actual the actual tax >> tax bill. 408 01:54:36.320 --> 01:54:52.480 I thought she might pay tax. >> Don't you think out of abundance of transparency we should say the tax >> on this million dollar house is going to be >> something whatever in 2027. >> That's what I do in the book. >> Yes. 409 01:54:52.480 --> 01:55:06.719 >> Yeah. >> And I did have that. I think I must have pieced over it. >> Okay. What is it? >> 1.75% increase. >> Which one? For FY27 for that's on page two. And I'm stupid because FY26 isn't here. Let me tell 410 01:55:06.719 --> 01:55:22.239 tell me the amount of tax on my million dollar house. >> 8 for FY27. It's 8,852. >> 88 852. >> That's the total. >> Yeah. Total annual. >> Yeah. 411 01:55:22.239 --> 01:55:37.679 >> Well, aren't these also all total annuals? >> Yeah. >> So, so this makes us look like we're brilliant, right? >> Well, the assessed values screaming upwards. So the >> the assessed values are increasing more rapidly than the 2 and a half% increase. 412 01:55:37.679 --> 01:55:53.440 So this is not in my opinion a good example. >> Okay. >> Your million dollar house last year could be 1 something this year. >> Oh, I see. So I'm no longer in that million dollar category. I see. That's 413 01:55:53.440 --> 01:56:09.440 why it's hard to >> So what I like to talk about increase in the tax rate. Yeah. Right. Um Yeah. That's the way to think about it. That's what this whole entity is doing year to year to year, >> right? >> Yeah. 414 01:56:09.440 --> 01:56:26.239 >> And you could extrapolate where we're going to be and however many years you want to go forward. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Because it's it's I haven't seen a decrease in my taxes. Maybe you have, but I haven't. >> No, I haven't noticed that. >> Even in the years with zero increase, I 415 01:56:26.239 --> 01:56:42.480 didn't see a decrease in my taxes. >> Congratulations. Your house is worth a lot more. Hey, y'all. Great. If you want to sell it. That's why this makes us look brilliant. >> Yeah. Make us look brilliant. But if you really know what's behind the curtain, 416 01:56:42.480 --> 01:56:59.280 >> there's another story. >> It's hard to It's hard to show that how that million-dollar value grows, >> right, >> fairly because not all houses grow in value the same way. So it's 417 01:56:59.280 --> 01:57:17.119 >> and we show this summary in the book do we about article five but I thought for article five we normally had totals as to what came out from each funding source >> it's usually the motion 418 01:57:17.119 --> 01:57:33.960 >> is there a reason we can't put it in the printed copy >> I hate being in a motion >> I mean the the printed copy of the book will have will look just like it always has. 419 01:57:35.360 --> 01:57:51.520 >> What does that mean? >> So, if you had the explanation under article 5 in the past that you're looking for. >> Yeah. >> What goes in the book? >> It's not there. I want it. >> Oh, it didn't do the motion. That's 420 01:57:51.520 --> 01:58:09.119 >> It's in the operating budget. All the motions were well all the capital this >> see the the operating budget has the funding summary >> article five does not >> what it's supposed to look 421 01:58:09.119 --> 01:58:26.480 >> and it would be nice to have a >> capital okay we could do that right >> so total yeah totaling up >> how much is coming from taxation how much is coming from fund balance balance yeah We have it here. We have it on the 422 01:58:26.480 --> 01:58:41.599 spreadsheet here. >> But all of article 5 is a capital exclusion. >> No, only the separate warrant articles that are a bond exclusion. >> There you go. 423 01:58:41.599 --> 01:59:02.080 >> If you look at article five, >> you'll see that 1.3 million is out of current taxation. 225,000 is from fund balance. and 29.5 million is borrowed. But those the thing that bothers me and 424 01:59:02.080 --> 01:59:18.159 I'm sure we've always done it is the ones that we're borrowing for are not on the article five list because they're separate warrant articles. I think one of the reasons why we haven't put a summary of like the 425 01:59:18.159 --> 01:59:34.719 funding sources for article five is that like >> when we went to vote it it would be you know numbers like one two five six and seven are to be funded by taxation and um it just takes up a lot of space I'm just talking a total 426 01:59:34.719 --> 01:59:51.679 >> just to like in like for article four like how we do in article four you'd want article >> like we did last year >> yeah total fund balance total taxation. Yeah, >> it's really the totals that matter. Each individual item, it's just accounting >> because otherwise I got but in case 427 01:59:51.679 --> 02:00:09.239 someone holds like doesn't approve one then it changes all the numbers and you have but this is no not valid if >> somebody changes things. Right. >> Right. >> And like from this I don't know how much we spent on the waterway fund 428 02:00:09.440 --> 02:00:25.599 >> from article >> five. Yeah. I just said fund balance and waterway fund. So I don't know what the breakdown is. So I just think that's helpful if it's possible. Okay. Andy's going to be reading either I 429 02:00:25.599 --> 02:00:45.599 thinking hour. Okay. So on the booklet, you probably don't have the booklet with you, but I just kind of wanted to go through 430 02:00:45.599 --> 02:01:04.239 the charts a little bit. Do we want all the same charts? >> I think it allows you to compare one year to the next if you're >> okay >> these things like I do. So, >> but I was wondering if >> we are citizens. 431 02:01:04.239 --> 02:01:20.880 >> So, the charts are budgeted expenses with the little pie charts and the total dollars. Expenditures, same thing. >> I think they're worth it. >> Expenses by department. Uh, summary, town expenses, salaries, expenses, health service, 432 02:01:20.880 --> 02:01:39.040 >> revenues, estimated local receipts. No, >> nonpropy tax revenue. Property taxes and nonpropy tax revenue. Then we get to 433 02:01:39.040 --> 02:01:55.119 reserves as a percentage of total operating budget. There's percents but no dollars. Is that okay? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The chart 10 current MBTA debt total amount outstanding. I'm wondering on 434 02:01:55.119 --> 02:02:11.280 that if you can put dollar amounts in >> and on that one um >> just millions I mean you know like one >> and that's just town that not it does not include school >> as well. >> So can you put a parenthesis excluding school? 435 02:02:11.280 --> 02:02:27.119 >> Yes. >> Correct. >> And just if you can put the the numbers in because I I just find this bar chart. I have to go and say okay now where does this bar come and where does this bar come? What's the difference? >> Do we have a school debt to log out of 436 02:02:27.119 --> 02:02:43.360 just the town? >> Because the school does their own reporting. >> Yeah. >> But we know what we owe, right? >> Pretty forgivable. >> We got to pay. That's 50% of the budget. >> Do we want to add the school debt? 437 02:02:43.360 --> 02:02:59.679 But at least chart >> what >> it own chart >> bar alongside each bar like have two bars for each >> your one school >> rather than one charts >> anyway like the two bars can 438 02:02:59.679 --> 02:03:17.760 >> it's confusing >> well especially because you can't do like color >> yes >> let's do a separate chart for the school yeah >> color so this chart next year it might look sort of like this but all these numbers on the vertical axis are going 439 02:03:17.760 --> 02:03:32.320 to change a lot right >> no the year after >> not next year because you won't have gone but the year after they'll be >> and you'll have a mountain climbing up the other side >> right right 440 02:03:32.320 --> 02:03:48.639 so I'm just thinking about down the road >> that >> you're gonna have troubles comparing because >> I don't know >> this is going shows 7 million and then the other chart's going to look the same and it's going to be 50 million. 441 02:03:48.639 --> 02:04:04.880 >> But I think it's good to get the school school one on the table now. >> Yeah. As a separate chart and >> in a year and ahead of where it's going to be a year or two from now or after the bands have come through and all that we've finished up those. >> So do you want me to on that chart for 442 02:04:04.880 --> 02:04:20.719 the school debt? Do you want me to include the estimates for the Essex Elementary? Because historically I have not. >> No, it would just whatever has been bonded >> actual debt for the town you have the actual debt correct. >> Yeah. No, just the actual current outstanding. >> My comment was more in context of what 443 02:04:20.719 --> 02:04:37.040 do we what do we print in 2026 in anticipation of somebody looking back at this in 2028 or 9 30 >> not that people do that but >> we're going to burn all the books. >> Yes. >> Right after the meeting >> have a book sale. have to go through a 444 02:04:37.040 --> 02:04:54.480 zip wall to get to mine. Had to go through a zip wall to climb. >> We probably should give some warning about a special town meeting and the budget perspective coming lumen because it's within FY27 445 02:04:54.480 --> 02:05:10.480 the town meeting and decision maybe an estimate. I >> mean I think Sarah you're talking to capital and debt and long-term debt. You can't have a long-term debt discussion for the town without asterisking or 446 02:05:10.480 --> 02:05:25.840 mentioning school, >> right? >> I mean, so this this will come out >> and we're not going to put this 20-year facility capital this year because we haven't discussed 447 02:05:25.840 --> 02:05:50.960 it. I'm lerary of committing to 20 years of numbers because so much is going to change in the next 10 years. >> We have the fivey year. >> We have the fivey year. >> Okay. We feel good about that. 448 02:05:50.960 --> 02:06:13.760 >> We I mean we have good numbers. >> I believe so. >> Okay. what we had for this year three years ago. >> Why is that way in the front? >> Uh because usually Greg does a little or did a 449 02:06:13.760 --> 02:06:47.040 little summary about it. >> It's right after the final report. This isn't that long. He wants me to make it shorter. >> I am going >> I was the one that urged that it'd be shorter. So 450 02:06:47.040 --> 02:07:07.040 >> Oh, no. So, I hear it's supposed to rain this weekend, so hopefully there'll be a film come report throughout early. >> I finished my last ZBA decision today. >> I removed that shed. >> I told you. 451 02:07:07.040 --> 02:07:24.000 >> Amazing. I walked by it yesterday. >> You removed it. >> Incredible. So, the ZBA does have teeth. >> Yeah, it removes it. >> Pretty good. Sometimes >> it's been gone for several I think he must have removed it. There was a whole pound of snow there. So he before the 452 02:07:24.000 --> 02:07:39.119 storm snow >> amazing. >> I've heard from talking around other towns that a lot of towns are preparing for overrides this year. Um might not hurt to give a relative with what other towns are doing because I think this 453 02:07:39.119 --> 02:07:55.760 tariff stuff is affecting everyone. >> Yeah. I try to kind of give a summary of kind of where my head is and you know I'm going to have to explain why the tax increase is so low 454 02:07:55.760 --> 02:08:13.040 >> because mortgage with bonds. >> Maybe we should pay cash. Andrea also put together, I don't know if you want the data for it or another chart, but she also put together a tax 455 02:08:13.040 --> 02:08:30.159 bill breakdown by government function. So, you know, a percentage of your tax bill 166 goes to general government, which equals $1,475 456 02:08:30.159 --> 02:08:47.719 out of your total 8,000. I don't know if you want that. >> No, I don't want dollars. I mean, she has she's got the percentage. >> Well, >> you sort of have thisart 457 02:08:47.760 --> 02:09:04.639 chart too by percentage. >> Yeah. I mean yeah the funding sources may I mean predominantly it's mostly taxation but but these charts you know expense chart three and four basically kind of say well what goes into general government 458 02:09:04.639 --> 02:09:21.599 >> I have with dollars is the because the assessments change every year you don't really know what the dollars >> are going to be and so it just seems to be much easier to kind of say Okay, your 459 02:09:21.599 --> 02:09:44.920 taxes are going to increase 1.75%. You know, but we'll be impacted by the assessments. >> Mhm. >> You know, your assessment goes up too much and got to be nice to Michelle. >> Well, no. Um, any leazison updates? 460 02:09:45.280 --> 02:10:02.400 >> Um, minutes from March 12th. Yeah. Look good to me. >> I read them. Look fine. Fine. Fine. Peter has a motion. Gar seconds. >> Yes. Yes. >> Any discussion? >> Take a vote. My >> yes. >> Peter. >> Yes. 461 02:10:02.400 --> 02:10:18.239 >> Gar. >> Yes. >> Dean. >> Yes. >> Um John >> St. >> Um Andy Sarah. Yes. Thank you. So, our next meeting is March 26th, at which point we'll be doing the 462 02:10:18.239 --> 02:10:36.239 warrant. >> Mhm. >> And the booklet and I'm supposed to have the booklet in some type of condition before that meeting so it can be put up on SharePoint. Huh. >> That' be good. >> Okay. >> I will be zooming here again on the 463 02:10:36.239 --> 02:10:50.719 26th. >> Okay. And just run me through the meetings after the 26th. >> April 16th. >> April 16th. >> And then um >> before the town meeting and then pre-Town meeting. >> Yeah. 464 02:10:50.719 --> 02:11:06.239 >> Was that town meeting 27th >> twice? >> Yes. >> Yeah. I asked I asked Eli if he you know for that >> Oh, a pre-T moderator's meeting if he wanted I guess traditionally it's been done >> Saturday. >> Saturday. I asked him if he wanted to do 465 02:11:06.239 --> 02:11:22.239 a Thursday night. >> Yeah, >> that was good. >> So that would have that would be the 23rd. >> Okay. Usually the chair goes to that. Usually not. The whole fincom goes to that. >> Curious citizens. >> That's when we have our meeting Thursday 466 02:11:22.239 --> 02:11:38.960 nights, >> but we're not meeting on that Thursday. >> Come back to me anyways. Whatever. >> Okay. >> Works for you guys. On the 16th, we're having the auditor and the U op. Is that going to be a 467 02:11:38.960 --> 02:11:56.800 problem if we have fires with the warrant articles? Should that be finished by >> the warrant articles will be set by that? >> Oh, yeah. They're going to book next week. >> This is the 16th. >> This is an interimm year 468 02:11:56.800 --> 02:12:14.159 for OPED. >> Dan is still coming. >> He's coming, >> but it's not. But it's an interimm year. He won't have an actual report, you know, a updated report for June 30th 25. That's an off year. >> No problem. But he'll talk and say how 469 02:12:14.159 --> 02:12:29.199 good we are. >> And the auditors will be here as well. Just >> Yeah. >> Town auditors and Dan on the 16th. I'm hoping we can have the fiscal year Q3 report. >> Um and then we'll do any town meeting 470 02:12:29.199 --> 02:12:50.320 prep we need to do. Yeah, I talked to the auditors and Dan like the most likely they'll be both remote but Dan might make it in person. >> Okay. >> And that will be first on your agenda of anything else anybody wishes to raise. 471 02:12:50.320 --> 02:13:03.159 >> No thanks. I move we adjourn. Do >> I have a second? >> Second. >> Quick. >> All in favor? >> Thank you. That's right.