It's 7:02 on Thursday, November 20th, and I will call the finance committee meeting to order. Um, in the room from the finance committee, I have John Croft, Bar Morris, Peter Twining, Andy Alderman,
Lori Kraton, myself, Sarah Melish, and on Zoom we have Dean Nihadis. Um, also in the room is Ann Harrison from the select board, Andrea Mainville, finance director, and Tony Barleta, the town
administrator. >> So, greetings all. [clears throat] The first item on the agenda is the fiscal year 26 um Q1 report
which I believe was sent to people >> earlier this week. Do people have >> We just had one minor question which is really on public safety police. Looks like at the moment we're about 42% of our expenditure through the year. Is
that kind of normal or I I always know I know you're always lagging because you're trying to catch up. you know, this isn't tied directly to payroll, but didn't know if we're on track or what we think's happening.
>> Well, in some departments, including the police, we have like a lot of duties and subscriptions and one-time payments that happen. Um, they kind of skew that like percentage on the side. >> Yeah. >> Um, as far as aware, that's what's happening.
>> And I had sort of a general question on just expenses with some town departments. Is it normal for them to be pretty well spent at this end of the first quarter? Is that sort of the pattern? >> It is. Yeah. >> Okay. I couldn't remember whether that
was typically the way it worked or not. >> Yeah. And we'll have some like on the flip side we'll have the opposite where some departments look like they're not spending at all and then all of a sudden May and June like all their bills can do. [clears throat] >> Yeah. No, I appreciate I understand how that works. >> It was more about the first quarter.
Like oh money towards the end of the year. Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. So, Andre, I was going to ask just looking at this quick, um, could you do quarter [clears throat] to quarter to quarter instead of, >> you know, percent? I think we're talking about seasonality, which is showing up in some of the >> right >> budget items. If you looked at first
quarter to first quarter, then kind of be apple is quarter to quarter. >> It [clears throat] scroll to the right. >> I didn't do percentage changes from one quarter to the other. >> Gives the first quarter of last year. >> And I thought you generally look very
strong. pleasingly strong, >> right? >> But uh is that >> unanticipated? Is that something you would know? No, >> no. Unanticipated. >> Yeah, the licenses and permits were very high. >> Do we know what that's from?
>> It's from a a bunch of little things. I know it's not one like large property. Um I don't have to call >> a lot of building permits. >> Building and electric. Uh anything to really draw attention to in your opinion?
>> Yes. Um my email that I sent it was >> Yes. You you mentioned permits that you on the revenue side. >> Yes. >> You know on the expense side I've now forgot you had two items I think three >> um quite a few actually. Yeah. legal professional services um especially the
legal services higher rate than we have in the past >> um and I know we we've run higher before in the past but even higher um so I'm concerned about that but it it seems to be across the board um throughout the town like different departments needing it like we've had some EN issues we had
the Republic strike um the central pond culvert project appeals um the health department property issues there's the planning board um quite a few different issues that have h been happening so far this year. Um so I just want to keep an eye on that. Um
>> the ABA has has an ongoing court case where the town council had to represent [clears throat] us which is unusual for ZBA stuff >> on on the culvert um legal fees. Has anyone looked at what it cost to
just repoint the wall for the lady as opposed I mean I think we're spending more on legal fees than it would have been to fix the damn wall. I I think we should do a comparison of that before we get too out of hands with our egos on this.
And our we're the legal fees that we're expending is related to the process of going for the chapter 91 permit. So they don't go away. It doesn't really go away unless we
>> Well, I thought that the the issue was that we're we're not in agreement with the butter. So, you know, that's why, but maybe there's another permitting thing. I don't know. >> I happy to chat with you with on that, Dean, offline. I'm just reluctant to get
into like details of potential settlement discussions and a public meeting. >> Yeah. No, that's fine. Just the the litmus test of the cost of the legal fees versus the cost of the mitigation. I guess we should make that comparison.
[clears throat and cough] I don't know electric >> electricity um >> burden and wind night oil are rates going up >> rates going up because I I just processed um bills this week and we have a lot of national grid bills and electricity is like is running very high
um so I that is something I'm going to be looking at to see where we're at with this >> but does the community um >> theation >> yeah um they don't do municipal >> no we're Yeah, it's like a commercial.
>> Okay, >> I guess. Yeah, >> I know. We'll be nice, right? >> Andrea, do you have trouble with National Grids just accounting? >> We in our business is crazy. They mix up buildings, they mix up accounts.
>> It's It's unbelievable. And I can imagine in this town it must be absolutely out of control, you know? I mean, >> yeah, [clears throat] it's hard. >> It's them, you know, their accounting is just off the charts ridiculous. Yes, >> we we have found that we've had to issue
separate checks for every single >> Yeah. >> um meter >> which >> keep it clean. I guess >> it's Yeah, it's the only way. Um we've had some issues with like um trying to get anyone there.
>> Um it's even it's even been in my lister and uh there was one community that was like, "Well, I know someone." And I sent a spreadsheet and so everyone's like, "Well, what's your guy's name?" like that's telling [laughter] >> it's magical first. I think you're making it up. So yes, it's across the board and more yours is
>> and oh Mike. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Yeah, just mix up accounts and um we we're doing exactly the same thing, sending multiple checks, but you know, I imagine in this town you probably got 15 or 20 accounts and that's just
>> and I I don't Yeah, they've they renamed town hall to police department. So So where I was going with this is that they're probably running credits on one account and debits on another. So you have a cash flow problem. So yeah, >> sounds like you're on this.
>> Dean, did you have something to contribute? >> Well, more recently on the on the national grid, but more generally on the spread my comments on the spreadsheet. But first, for National Grid, my big concern is how us going to the aggregate
supplier might affect the priority of service commitments. I'm sure by law they have to treat us equally, but we just need to keep an eye on that. I think >> the town's not on it. >> Well, we're going over to an aggregate
supplier, I think. Aren't we? >> Not the town, just residents. >> I see that. Okay. The town opted out. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. >> Town's not allowed in. >> Town's not allowed in. >> I see. Okay. >> I opted out.
>> Well, just look at the company that was low bidder. Oh my goodness. >> Manager of parking. Could you help me there? I don't know a whole lot about what the I know we have an arrangement with the the meters and all. Is Is that running different than
>> It is. So, so we started the parking um stick program last year. >> Yes. Um we had a certain number of sticks that we got and we're like, "Okay, this is working well." And then we pretty much doubled the number of parking yes sticks. Um >> but the way that our agreement reads is
like an average cost, minimum cost per stick. >> And um I want like I want to review it with the um town clerk and the police chief just to see that it's really not costing the town more money than it's bringing in.
Thank you. >> Um the other two items I had was the rubbish and disposal. >> Hold on, Dean. >> Okay. >> Rubbish collection and disposal is low because um we were working with the vendor um to >> that might be a positive number.
>> Did we get a discount? >> Yeah. >> Oh goodness. >> Yeah. Now is that finally resolved today? >> Right. >> Well, we got a good we got a good response today. Um, >> that's better. >> That's a good way to put it. >> Yeah, that's better. >> Uh, they they they
basically went to all 14 communities and reduced regardless of what contract language each community had. They >> and they vary between >> they vary and we don't have a great we don't have great language in our contract. In our contract with them, it
actually protects uh the public from >> cost impacts due to a strike. >> That's right. >> But they said, "We'll we'll reduce your invoice for the services that we did not provide." Um which they did, which was great, but
what they didn't um account for was our cost to supplement the services they didn't provide. and they charged us for the additional um you know dumpsters and things that we needed for yes the
transfer station that we ramped up because of their lack of service. So it kind of became a little bit of a um they sent us invoice with those reduced amounts and they said if you know if you uh pay these within 20 days
you you know wave any right or additional you know claim or anything like that. So we did not do that and instead we we came up with our own calculation that was accounted for some of those additional things and sent them
a letter saying this is how this is where we're calculating it and here's a check for those three months. >> And uh the response we got today was thank you. And um it it seemed like they were going to accept what we had uh
>> oh sent they cash the check. That's why I say that's what that's the indication. >> And if they do, I believe the contract is in our favor. If they cash the check,
then they wave their right to >> it's mutual. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> play a little chess with them dance for a couple months. Um, however, our contract is up at the end of the year. >> Yeah.
>> And we ex we even if they didn't go through a strike, we expected a significant increase in our costs, whether it's Republic or some other company. Um, so that is going to be an it a big item of
ours that we're going to have to keep a close eye on going into next year. Is the contract up on December 31st or >> June? >> June. Okay. >> Yeah. So, now that we've once they cash this check, uh we'll be going into
discussions about what another contract might look like. We're not required under mass procurement law to uh procure disposal services. So, um we can sign a new contract with them. We'll see what
we get for numbers and if that makes sense. >> Ask a question. >> Will we will we be able to get >> uh Okay. Sorry. >> Uh yes. Will we be able >> will that require us to change the
methodology of our collection? Do you anticipate? Uh so if what I'm gonna what we're going to ask republic and what we would put in a procurement if we were to go out on the street would be to get pricing for gold what we do
today and what automated collection most companies uh are moving to automated collection and it does produce a a a lower rate because of the savings in labor costs.
>> Thanks Dean. Go ahead. Because of the volatility of next year's budget with the the sanitation, will we be able to get bid solicitations at least returned in time to plug in a
decent number for our budget um the beginning of the year or is it going to be extended till May as a wild card in our budget? Like is there a timing to get some uh initial pricing for for the following year? That's what we're try we're going to try
to do that. Uh Dean, um any work worst case scenario, we're going to have to plug a number in there and >> um estimate as high as we can. Chuck was reaching out to the DP Northeast
coordinator that uh and she was giving us what neighboring communities are are, you know, looking at for contract prices and and to kind of give us some sort of guidance on what to plug in. >> Okay. Well, it might be easier just to
put out a wreck and get it, you know, actual prices, but okay. >> I I may do that. I want to see what I get out of Republic first. >> Okay, very good. Thank you. >> Yep. >> So, I had some more um sheet comments
the um quarterly. >> Okay. >> Okay. [clears throat] On the revenue page, what what are we char who are we charging interest to? I see there's 75,000 in interest.
>> Oh, interest charges. >> Those are interest charges on real estate, personal property, motor vehicle. >> Um Oh, >> okay. For like late payments. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Gotcha. Wow.
>> Yes. >> Okay. That that's what that is. Thank you. Um, I noticed the ambulance was um, what was it? Was it high or low? I have a red dot. >> Yeah,
>> it's low. Okay. >> Yeah. So, >> go ahead. Sorry. >> No, I just I was looking at what it was, but it's only the revenue is down and I'm wondering if there's a reason or if this is a trend to watch.
>> No, there was a reason. So when um the federal shutdown happened um everyone's concerned about like whether to send in Medicare payments or not um so the ambulance companies were kind of like Jake can maybe speak to this too um like were holding off for a little bit and
then they started resuming um putting submitting those claims. So it was a lag in time for that. >> Okay. So that should rebound at some point. Um, >> it it was also compounded by we transitioned to a new billing company,
so they didn't bill for July and August until the end of September. So, there's going to be a slight delay um in payments. >> Okay, good. You you hired someone to beat up the insurance companies, huh? [laughter]
All right. So, uh that was the exp revenues on expenditures. The fire overtime still a little bit high, but you know, that could be seasonal. Um the harbor master expenses, is that
something we're going to get into with the launch stuff? Maybe, but that was a flag. And then I was curious, is this permit software on the building department? Is that completed now? Did we Is that just a one
shot price and we're done or is that going to >> continue? Annual annual cost. >> Okay. So, we paid it basically and it was only 80% of what we budgeted, >> right? Because that 4500 that's left
over is for um projects. So, like every time we bring on like a department into the permitting system, um you know, there's some like transition setup fees and things like that. And so that's what that remaining amount is, but the 20,000 is our annual cost for the software.
>> Um >> the lifeguard salaries is is you know, I wonder if we have too many people down there. Um we have to look at that. But that was running high. the um what what
is Tux Point? Oh, the salaries are like um the Burgess woman who's runs Tux Point. Okay, never mind. >> They're seasonal, Dean. So, they the majority are in the
>> the first and the fourth quarter. >> Yeah. Okay, very good. >> Same with the lifeguards. It's first and fourth quarter. >> I know, but we expended 60% of the year already. Maybe that's normal, but >> but there's really only one month of
June at the end of the year. >> Okay, you're right. Yep, that's right. It's a good point. Sorry. Yep. >> That was [clears throat] Well, you want to get into capital? >> No, I'm not there yet. I want to talk about enterprise fund revenue.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Um, >> thank you. It looked strange to me that if I read it right, the sewer utility usage is down and the water usage is up
>> from last year. Well, the water are you looking at the total >> for the quarter? I'm looking at the quarter. Yeah, the like 449,000 for water compared to last year's 311,000.
Is that where you're looking? >> I'm looking at So, under sewer, I'm looking at this year 155 and last year was 171.
Whereas water this year is 371 and last year was 3085. I would have expected them to be more >> in line, >> right? >> So that's surprising to me. >> Okay, I'll have to look into that, but
off the top of my head, I would say people use their irrigation meters more, >> but I'd have to verify that. Maybe people have bumped up to a higher rate and for the same gallons they're charge more. I don't know. >> Oh, that could be. Yeah. Yeah, that
could be. [clears throat] >> Um, >> was a try. >> And the other thing that surprised me was the capital fee line underwater. Um,
it's my understanding that's paid quarterly. We budgeted 81,200 and we've already collected 77,400. >> So I put that 81,000 as just as the first quarter commitment. >> So that just one quarter. >> Okay. >> Um
>> I don't think that'll change going forward. But now since it's like the first real year, I wanted to put something in there to say, okay, we we committed and build 81,000, but we've only collected 77,000 of it so far >> because it's not a budget item, right? >> Okay. Okay. Got it.
That was what I had in enterprise. >> Ready to go to capital. >> Mhm. >> Um, one question I had, Andrea, that the last column H has some numbers in it, but it doesn't have a label. What are
they? >> 5,000. So if you look on line 38 touch point rotunda. >> Yeah. So um I added up so to make my formulas work in this in this on the
enterprise fund FY analysis I added up each fund expenses. So that column H 305,000 is the total capital expenditures in general fund. >> Okay. >> For the quarter. Okay. And then down below the 24,000 is Harbor capital
expenses so far this quarter. >> And what's the the expense balance is what we've spent from that line item. Correct. Okay. >> I see. I see. So
>> and the dredging line the on 46 Andrea >> the 24,000 >> is adding >> we haven't been doing dredging. >> Have we been doing dredging that I >> well the 24,000 adds up all of the harbor expenses but the dredging we
spent $6,000 and we're still working on the permitting >> permitting like >> those kind of related expenses. Yeah, that's right. >> I mean, the permitting takes like two or three years. Yeah. >> And then boom, we do it. >> Yes. >> And then start all over again.
>> Start again. >> We're always permitting. >> Yes. Permitting. Yes. I [clears throat] Yes. >> Anything else on >> sort treatment? Replacement. Okay. Got it.
Dean, did you have something on capital? So, I'll ask one I'll ask a question just because I get confused sometimes. Line 10 police cars. We budgeted 73,750 and we spent 64,390.
>> So is that different extra or do we have something else to buy? >> We have something else to buy. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Because like we have the purchase of the car and then we have the purchase of the lights, the installation of the lights, the radios, the painting, the the
>> the um rough tough book thing that goes in it too. All that ancillary. Okay, >> that makes up the difference. >> Yeah. >> What's the difference in the cost of painting for the black and whites versus the ones that are all black now that you can't read the name and it's police?
>> It's actually cheaper to do the all black one than >> Okay, I figured. Yeah. Okay. >> That's why everyone's switching. >> You can't tell it's a police car. Well, if you look at it tells something about the chairperson.
>> Anybody else have anything on capital? >> The um compost facility transfer station line 25. >> Yes. >> 109,000. I I don't know what we what are we doing there for capital.
So the the last part of that project and agreement was to um repave that one section up to the transfer station >> in November. Yeah. >> On Veterans Day, right? >> Okay. So that's what that was for.
>> I wish it a little wider. Thanks, Judy. I was kind of thinking Black Earth should pave that road because their trucks are the ones that are >> She's saying part of our agreement, Dean, to do that. >> Yeah, I know. My favorite agreement.
>> All right. any >> um so next was I know the DPW facility we were gung-ho on doing 860 but I think Peter at our last meeting or
the meeting they're kind of putting that on hold a little bit because they're not sure about where the police station and everything is >> let's ask Chuck he's Chuck's on the phone let's ask Chuck do. >> What's the I don't What's the question?
>> So, the DPW facility has a budget of 860,000, >> right? >> Dean thinks it's been put on hold. >> Well, some of it >> it's not on hold. We we're working with the facility planning committee. We're evaluating additional options. We will
have a need this fiscal year, which is what that money is for, uh to do additional preliminary design. We might uh evaluate more alternatives that include the um police and fire as well. Uh but then you know then the you know
we'll at some st at some point we'll move to the next phase. Um but I mean we're we're still evaluating it. >> Okay. >> So you think the 860 is good for this? Well, you might have already spent it. It's just lagging. Um >> right. Well, yeah. We haven't we haven't
uh done an amendment to our existing agreement or solicited, you know, more RFQS or anything like that yet, but um I would like to. >> Okay. Um is the uh flood proofing and generator
done now? The uh line 35 >> is that for the fire department? I'm not sure which >> the fire department I think is >> almost complete. I think we still need the National Grid was there last week to >> uh renew the gas service going into the
building and I think they need to set a meter so we're still not quite there but pretty close. >> Okay, that's for the fire station. I I was thinking that the town hall and the library were set but there's another one. Okay. >> Well, the library is set. The that one's done. Uh the town hall one is still kind
of in development. Oh, okay. >> Floods. [laughter] >> Is there any any word on the uh So, on getting to our favorite line 38. Any word on
additional funding on the rotunda? I know we were applying for I think more economic development council grants. >> We'll discuss the rotunda when we talk on the capital budget for this year. >> Okay. Okay, >> it's a line item on that. >> Yeah, that's a big one. Okay,
>> remind me what the Sweeney Park Engineering is doing. >> Cars, >> believe park engineering. That's that's drainage, I think, isn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, that was the whole the whole park
uh potentially being you know, we we've looked at several alternatives with uh you know, turf fields and additional uh you know, making the fields better, but then also the parking has always been an issue with that drainage. So, it's I guess it's predominantly a drainage project,
but there's also, you know, the idea that we could hopefully expand or otherwise uh renew the fields, but it's still kind of in progress. I'd recommend a 4 inch top dressing every year. >> There's no conclusion, is there, Chuck?
I mean, we're still wondering trying to figure out whether we can more adequately train the area. Is that I think the essence of this? I think it's still I think Chuck correct me if I'm wrong but I think Nate's still working pretty closely with the
engineers on that looking at alternatives right >> correct >> so the answer is it's made progress >> that's done you have something else >> no no thanks
>> n okay good anybody have any other questions on the first quarter first quarter report. No, we're good then. Next item on the agenda is the launch
service 2025 season summary revenue update which Andrea sent us. And my basic question on this, this is just for the launches, not for other boats. >> Correct. >> Okay.
>> And given that the expenses in calendar 25 seem very low >> season >> more >> the season 25 calendar year. >> Okay. Well, there's more there's more
year to go, but I um we can anticipate this isn't the last word probably that there's more more hanging around on the expense side, particularly on the lunches. >> I don't believe so. Um and Ban's on
maybe he could speak to that, but I'm sure that's >> um can you fill us in a little bit on the launches on this year in terms of what are the expenses still to go? I'm trying to figure out how profitable the operation is. >> Right. So, uh the uh reason it was
higher last year, we had a mechanical um repair that cost $4,000 or $4,200. So, that's why the number was so high last year. Uh obviously, we still have um the
spring season left to go, so there'll be some fuel costs. Um I'm in winterization costs for the two launches as well. So we'll go up some. Um I don't
anticipate it. Certainly it won't be uh more than last year. >> But that would be in this 26. >> That's right. This is a calendar year >> for the [clears throat] season. Yeah. >> Right. So for if going the calendar
season. Yes. service got enough demand to cover its cost and if so do we have the last word on this or really there's probably further finances financial report to go when we get to 1231 and I sense this is pretty much the
close of it >> there may I think there's a little bit more on the winterization costs on under expenses if you're doing it by season like I >> yeah that's the spring the spring cost that you were talking about buying wouldn't factor into this,
>> right? >> Yes. >> Right. If we're doing uh calendar, not fiscal. Correct. >> Right. >> Yep. >> So, so far we're services sustaining itself and beginning to pay back the capital. >> I thought there was a question floating
around whether it's sustaining itself and these numbers if they're pretty. The last numbers that we showed you were uh were alarming because it was the reconciliation of it was the issue. So
the last few weeks, Bion and Jen and Andrea have been working to figure out what those, you know, how to reconcile those costs because >> if you paid for
um if you paid online, some of the launch costs were being lumped in with mooring costs. And so it was >> that's why the numbers were a little alarming the last time we met. Now it's been ironed out. >> It's been ironed through. >> Yeah. And this looks good.
>> Have we fixed the system so that next year they'll be recorded separately? >> We're in the process of that. >> Okay. Don't worry. We're very motivated to do that, not have to do that again. [laughter] >> Ain't that the truth?
>> It's we're working with the software with Dqua to >> do you pay? But the bottom line is we're moving along and it's paying for itself and kind of got capital and >> and then some. >> What was the capital? >> And then
>> we're down to 95 which is I think commendable >> and and the boats don't need any work. >> Correct. >> We don't need any new boats. >> Correct. No for the >> We don't need new launches. >> Okay. And none of the harbor master
boats different boats >> are used in the launch service. Is that right? >> So I would say in the very beginning of the season uh May and at the very end of the season in October when we get down
to uh really the demand could be one or two people a day. I would say that the eastern would be used and has been used to drop one or two people off as part of the boat being on patrol. That harbor
master will carry the phone and handle the one or two calls that may come in over the course of a day. >> And during the summer though, >> it's all launch. If somebody calls for a either gets a ride out or gets a calls
in to be picked up, no way does a harbor master boat pick that person up. Is that right? Well, I I would say if there's one launch operator, if we're paying one launch operator and they reach a
critical mass uh and want to make sure that somebody isn't waiting too long, if the harbor master boat is uh free and the harbor master is free, they would certainly call and ask the harbor master to pick up a person and drop them off.
And then we do use it uh as part of the red, white, and blue breakfast uh event. So we do use the harbor master boat then. But the harbor master boat can only carry six people. So it's it's not uh
not planned part of the daily operation. >> Boats have a way of eating money. And I say this not [clears throat] from municipal but personal experience. And um very often uh unforeseen
events occur at sea shall we say particularly in regard to expenditures. So um the likelihood for instance in the in the and we're talking about the launch business in our launch business
that an unforeseen circumstancerance arrives and we have to spend $42,000 to repair uh Caterpillar or diesel or whatever it is. Um we feel we don't need
to worry about these things. Everything is buttoned up, has been looked at. We feel confident. We've provided for the future. And this is a a ongoing business that holds water, so to speak, to mix
the metaphor, use the metaphor. Uh I guess I I should have gone up up that I should that was sort of a question. Are we is this a is this a business that's soundly uh in place and
we're not going to be uh confronted by something goes oh my god you know we had three years of making money and now we're in the soup kind of thing. That's that's my question. I if I sound like a skeptic that's my that's my job.
>> Well it's all right Gar. It's okay to be skeptical. I I I have skepticism myself. Uh okay but not about the launch. >> All right. >> So if if we don't uh vastly increase our
annual wrership if we don't see a vast increase in the number of people requesting harbor tours all of which we can [clears throat] control by saying no then we're just fine. But if if we want
to see growth, if we want to en encourage more people to use the seasonal launch service, if we want to accommodate the growing number of people who do want to come down and go for a
harbor tour, then I would say at some point the discussion would be do we get another uh inspected vessel for a launch and not an inspected and an uninspected vessel.
So that's but that's that's for time. For right now, uh the numbers uh we're carrying and what we're doing, it's absolutely sustainable in my opinion. >> B should we be setting up a reserve against uh major future problems in our
budgeting? >> Um >> we do. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry I didn't hear your answer. So that was part of the discussion. Uh when the launches were purchased, uh there was a very detailed uh breakout of
uh future expenses replacing engines and and that sort of thing. Um Andy's uh got some ideas that you'll see in the capital budget to bring down some of the expenses for the annual
maintenance and transportation and storage of these vessels. Uh so yes. Yeah, I feel like we are trying to plan for future expenses. Got to replace
things eventually. I guess that's my suggestion. I don't worry what your thought is on you more experience with launches but I it seems to me that it would be useful to have in the budgeting a set aside I don't know certain amount by may suggest again
something that will happen I mean there will be transmission problems there will be larger expenditures that come along that's the nature of launches and >> I think some providing for that would be I think useful >> I guess my concern is is that
We're not paying off the capital very rapidly and I would be reluctant to add more money to this budget >> without raising the rate. In other words, that that would lead to a rate probably okay I mean that would >> I mean >> if if
I'm not willing to increase the budget if [snorts] if this revenue can't cover the expenses then we shut it down. And that's what we were saying. And if we increase the budget and the expense line, then we're
decreasing the profit. So we're decreasing >> the payback. >> The payback. And the payback is not at a very high rate in my book. >> We're missing depreciation. >> Yeah. I've had my hand up. Part of part
of the challenge I think Peter is that except for like the fire truck fire apparatus fund correct me if I'm wrong we really don't forward fund appreciation you know we kind of wait around and hope something's going to h not going to happen and then when it does we jump on
it but to Gar's point you know we are kind of close to the line here and expenses don't typically come in as you know 100 here 100 there it comes as thousands here and thousands there is this is a tough one. I I just had one
question on the salaries because it looks like from last year to this year we had a pretty big jump and I was curious, Andrea, if that was a timing issue, like we got started late last year and then we this is a normal year or is there something going on that next
year that number may be 32 or 33 or 34 to climb up? >> No, I feel like this year was a normal year. Um, >> last year we did start late. Um, you know, then we had to bring people on that. So, it kind of ramped up last
season, but then we had people return this season. >> Dean, did you have a comment on the launch? >> Yes. Yes. My turn. Cuz, you know, my observation is Yeah. We're making 12
$12,000 profit a year or that's so that's going to return our $125,000 investment in about 10 years, >> right? >> Um this is a lot of work. I salute Bion for even taking it on, but for the town,
I think there's a lot of like insurance adjusters just have to see dollar signs when they go to Reed Park. I mean, I don't know if all our added insurance costs are in here. I noticed there's two extra trash cans that read. There's four
now. There used to be two. Um, the [clears throat] bathroom, the water bill was picked up at two stores this summer. Is that coming out of the the harbor budget? I mean, it's different from the launch, but these are all things that are costs that aren't really
figured. And is this all worth? We're doing all this work to keep it afloat as of now and it's all to break even in 10 years. So, it seems like we're going overboard to service a few voters that like this service. And should the town
be doing that? I guess is the million-dollar question. I think that when we decided to go forward with this launch service, we were not necessarily expecting to make money on it. Our goal was to break
even. And if we couldn't break even, right, >> we'd shut it down, >> right? >> Um and you know, 10 years isn't that long to pay back a boat, I don't think. >> Yeah. That's why I'm afraid about an unexpected substantial cost because I'm
I'm not so much about the speed with which the capital being paid out. I'm more concerned around the corner you're >> you're going to end up with a transmission issue because you shifted a lot or you know something that's noteworthy and we will not have taken that into account in our pricing for the
service. I mean, if you added a reserve here, which I know is not our pattern, but we treat this in a different way than most of other things, uh, that we'd have to raise the rate to understand that we'd raised the budget. Seems to me that if we keep this, we should have
some kind of reserve there for an unexpected substantial repair cost. I guess I'd rather see an increase in rates without an increase in the budget and then if we find that >> to pay back the capital more rapidly,
>> right? And then we should Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. >> Well, what's the what's the uh market uh response if we double the cost of getting the launch out to your boat? >> Right. I don't know
>> because I mean we do have to think about the c the customer a little bit. You can't just raise the rates >> like you do with the water bill. You can charge whatever you damn please with the water bill. But uh but uh I'll launch you know some people might say I'll I'll row. Thank you very much.
>> What's our annual rate buying at this point? >> I'm sorry Peter. One more time. >> What's our current rate? Oh. Uh, so we're charging $575 per season. $575 per
season, >> which is more than Gloucester and less than Marblehead. >> What's Marblehead charging? >> Uh, they are pretty close to $1,000. >> We're never gonna we're never going to
charge much. What >> about our boring fees? one of the higher uh fees in the state at $1250 a foot plus a $2.50 dredge assessment. So, it's $15 a foot to keep
your boat on a moing or at a slip >> as a moing holder, I'll tell you, is the most is the bargain of the millennium. >> Yeah, >> believe me, >> as a slip holder, I'll tell you. >> Yeah, >> that's my reaction. It's I mean >> so it has it has been some number of
years since uh there's been a fee increase for moorings >> but that's a different topic. >> Yeah that's a different topic. >> Yep. I think you treat it as a different topic. Morning fees we're talking about being sustained at at least a break even. >> Right. I just didn't want to lose my
thought on the moral question for Bayion. just um I know earlier in the season Bion I think Crocker's Boatyard was offering mooring um trip access and I can't remember what their rate was but it sounded like it
was cheaper than Yonclub and the town and everything. Have you had anybody jumping ship for that service or is that just >> No, so Crocker Yeah, sorry my uh Crocker doesn't actually offer moing service. They pay the town
575 uh that it's the same exact rate >> per boat per person >> per moing. It's $575 per moing. Then we do have the uh per trip fee which is $10
per person each way. >> How many subscribers do we have Bayan? Uh 68. Andrea, I think that sounds right. 68 this year. >> Yeah. 68 this year. >> Yeah. >> 68. >> 68 families that are using the launch
service. >> Will the engines make it past 10 years? >> Will the launch make it past 10 years? >> Well, really the engine >> Oh, yes. >> Andy's got Andy's got his hand up. He's probably the very best person to answer
that question. >> Yeah. So, I mean, I I've been around launches for the last almost 20 years, and I know kind of what guy was talking about earlier about expenses and everything else. Um, and it it it all
depends on the the care and maintenance that you put into the, you know, the asset. And buying's been phenomenal so far, and we plan on keeping that going. I don't see any major issues with that boat for at least another
10 12 years easily. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Are we done with the launch service so we can move on? >> It's a lot of fun to talk about, but you know, >> yeah, I I don't think it should continue without a reserve, but that's
the topic. >> I I appreciate your uh dis inclination to forward fund operating expenses. Believe me, boats are different than buildings. Boats, if there's ever an asset that
should be reserved against, it's a boat. And believe me, I've been I had a I've had a boat since I was six years old. [clears throat] That's 72 years. >> Look at the reserves over there. >> Wow. I've been setting money aside for
72. And once you wow. >> Okay. >> So I hope we come back to this. >> I respectfully feel we should think about redo the budget. >> Um
>> and maybe Brian would think about it. What if it were a reserve? What kind of what should we try to aim towards? I think I think one of the challenges is the reason we don't do reserves is because we don't want to charge residents on their taxes before an
expense matures and we only made an exception to the fire apparatus. >> But this is a different >> because we didn't have enough money for the $1.4 million got >> apparatus. I I suspect I suspect since the money comes from u uh the waterways fund and
it's the voters that are paying for the service, they would be willing to entertain the notion of this fund to ensure that the equipment that they pay to get them back and forth uh is has
means to take care of an emergency. >> Okay. Yeah. Thank you. And by the way, speaking as a member of the downtown improvement, the DIP committee soon to be renamed by the way. anyway that um Kalas uh Boobird um I don't know uh
>> Bravo >> Bravo you know all of these entities and the and some of the apparel stores benefit from the and I hesitate to use this term because I consider it inappropriate vibrant um downtown that
we have. So, uh, we're doing stuff for the for the populace in general here. And so, I'm I'm in favor of of all this waterfront baloney. So, >> um, >> yes, Steve.
>> Well, I wanted to finish with the launch by saying that it seems like the people, the 60 or so people that use the launch really like it. And um but at at $600 a season, it's not really worth it for the
town to supply. But maybe if they go up, you know, I think the people that are paying 600 wouldn't bat an eyelash to pay 800. So that's what I would consider, but that's something we can discuss. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Next item on the agenda is fiscal year
27 proposed capital budget. >> All right. So, I have a couple handouts here. Um, >> do you have it electronically? >> This is the same information. Uh, just presented two different ways.
Uh the the top page is basically just a list of all the of all them of all the requests and the bottom page separates it out into what would likely be a you know get exclusion type question. Um
but obviously subject to change. >> No, we're done. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> One more. >> And you got it in there. I thought we have two copies of the same thing. >> Yeah, it looks that way. So, the one of them is split into two different
uh boxes. Just because as you look at the first page where it's just everything listed, >> what's considered the first page? >> The which one? >> The one in your right. >> Thank you. >> Um the one box. >> The one box. >> When you look at it that way, it's
>> it's a lot in front of you. Um, >> is it possible for you to send this electronically to Dean? >> Um, would take me a minute to >> Oh, there's no more pennies anymore. >> No. Well, time for it.
Andrea, do you want to walk them through this a little bit while I try to send this to Dean? >> Um, so this is the list of all the capital requests that were seen for FY27. Um, broke it out by department.
If you want me to go through each request a little bit, >> please look at >> the one box. >> One that shows 24 million and full. >> Yep. Yep. Got it. >> So, first is my department. Um we're
looking at a financial system software replacement. Um we did replace our software um in 2015. Um but during that conversion the company was sold and then it's been sold several times since then. Um >> is this clear view or different
something different? >> No this is soft right. So this is our municipal financial software that we use for the receipts the expenses and all that stuff. Um and the assessor uses it the treasure collector uses it and my
office uses it. Um the soft so softite that we use is no long it's being supported um but it's not being improved. It's not like anything that we want to add or change or you know do anything to it they're they're not doing that. Um and yet we get charged more
every year. >> Um so it's and we they keep saying they're going to like not fund out it or anything like that but there's been a lot of municipalities that have um moved on. Um and so I feel like I don't want to be in the last rush of people um to
move on. >> Yeah. >> So um I we brought this up actually like you know we're on COVID and then kind of like was like okay well it's a big expense right now. Let's wait a little bit. Um so now we're looking to start that software replacement. >> And where do you know where you're
going? >> Not yet. We've we've done a couple demos but there's really not a lot of options for new school software especially in Massachusetts. Um, we've reached out to a couple new companies um that want to, you know, come into Massachusetts. Um,
but like we haven't found one that doesn't have motor vehicle excise. So how can we operate even with like one section of our revenues that >> do you have a buddy who is the
>> person who keeps control over some other town like you do this town >> that you could call up and say hey Larry what do you think who are you guys going to that kind of stuff. >> Oh it's a big discussion in our association. Um I've even discussed it
with the Northshore collaborative um because Danvers uses MUNS and we used to have MUNS and we were like oh that would be great you know if they can >> provide help and like we can kind of piggy back off of there. Um but MUN has no interest in
doing that at all. Like they don't they want each individual community to have their own because we all yes we do all do the same thing but we also all have separate charts of accounts. We have separate departments. Um it's not all like uniform accounting between every
municipality. Um and Munis is a really large company and they really focus on communities that have their own IT department in house. >> Yeah. >> Um we don't that's one of the reasons why we moved away from them. But I think that was before we were part of the regional collaborative and if we
probably put munis back on the table and say okay well dams is already rolling out the updates they can roll out the updates for them and for us and if we're going to be moving our servers over to them um as well maybe that could be an option. So right now there's two MUNS
and VA are like the top two M's municipal accounting softwares. Um so we're flushing that out right now that will work for best for all three departments and you know not be a huge cost.
>> So each town puts up [clears throat] $150,000 per year. >> No >> no that's just one time. That's for >> Okay. >> Yeah. And then per year the cost is 20,000.
>> It depends on how many of the extra well how many licenses you have but then plus like Munis will have >> um they'll have different things you can attach to like the master >> add-ons >> software. Yeah. And each each have their
own cost. >> Yeah. and [clears throat] cloud-based versus >> I'm just trying to figure out whether I can put all these companies together and start a company to >> make money. >> Yeah, >> that [laughter]
work the fleet. >> Yeah, I can take bions. >> Can I add a harbor module, too? >> Harbor module, right? >> Please. >> Yeah. big there's a big need out there and
>> okay so so we have a vendor right now that is not meeting our needs to stay current that's the deal question is where we go >> yeah exactly >> um the next is assessor department um we
use Patriot um for our u real estate and personal property um valuations um the last few years. I don't know if we we've talked about this a lot at all, but um personal property and the do have changed the way that personal property
is calculated, especially for utilities. Um so Mass Electric is like our top taxpayer um in town actually because of all >> the building, >> every pole, every line, every every you
know, it's all personal. It's huge. >> Um so and it's it's a really complicated calculation. Um, and so one of the things that the assessor has reached out to is um the real estate research consultants. It's RRC and they specialize in this personal
property valuation. They represent you. They um kind of like it it's like a full package service for personal property. >> Um which I think is a very valuable thing especially because it involves our largest taxpayer. Um and Patriot Properties has like they don't have the
staff any longer that um has the expertise in this personal property utilities. Um so that's why this has been brought forward. Um and to continue on with the Patriot um they are upgrading their software. we are like I
want to say it's four or five versions behind most other communities and so this upgrade would bring us up to the most current and it would be cloud-based um which is what we've been trying to work towards to reduce the number of servers that we need here. So, this is
an upgrade, not a replacement. >> Correct. It's an upgrade. >> And is that is that going to give us the ability to track things like ADUs and that sort of thing, which we're required to do?
>> I'll I'm not sure about that. I'll have to check on that >> because we're required to report to the state. >> I'm guessing so because it's going to offer a lot more than what we currently have right now. And we have a lot of existing ADUs and some of them are listed as two family and some are not
and we need to get it cleaned up. accessory >> dwell >> I know that the the law requires that reporting >> right >> but I I'd have to ask Michelle the last I remember like on the assessing side
there was still a lot of confusion as to how they would be coded and assessed and how that reporting would be produced >> we need to be able to distinguish between a property with an ADU Yeah.
>> And a property that's a two family. >> Even if today it doesn't impact the assessments, >> tomorrow it might. >> Mhm. >> And our records are horrendous.
I mean, I can tell you I have an ADU and it qualifies as a standard ADU. >> I will not need to pull a building permit because it's already built. Mhm. >> And >> nobody knows. >> Nobody knows. And how is how are the
assessor's records going to be updated? And it's not just my house. >> Right. Right. >> Mory's got an ADU, >> the dog that didn't bark >> and is listed as a two family. >> Right. >> And I got to believe that there's a different will it and there'll be
different assessment values for properties with ADUs versus two families. I would >> you nice thing I I'd have to ask Michelle I don't know if >> that side of it has been sorted out yet >> for all towns you know from [clears throat] >> right
>> the state down >> but I know that we are >> we're issuing building permits for ADUs and I don't know if anybody's joining them >> yeah we've had one so far right >> I don't know I've heard that there've been several but I don't know >> how many times has the assessor
visit the property >> with a tape measure. >> She visits after construction. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But I mean I I've lived here 47 years. I've never seen the assessor >> and I'm not I'm not requesting one.
>> Now >> the assessor came into my house. I haven't been called for jury duty and then shows up in the mailbox. >> Andra, tell Michelle to put his house on
the desk. >> I already wrote. >> Yeah, >> he just updated his kitchen. >> It's awkward. >> Right. >> I think he had a building permit though. >> I did. Stacy. >> Okay, we understand what that's for.
>> Okay, we're going to get through this. The next one, the western woods land surveying. I think we've seen this before. It's been an ongoing project to try and figure out those those old logging lots lots. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> are we actually
spending the money each year that's being put aside for that? >> No, not right now. We've had a um a hiccup because our last land surveyor retired um and we've been searching for
a new land surveyor. Um and a lot of people don't want to take on the new project because it's the old like you know what do you call chain and >> right >> hard so many cords and so many
>> um but the we spoke with the assessor today and she mentioned that she has a meeting with someone um that might be interested in doing doing that. >> So how much do we have unspent from prior years? That's why I am not like I put this on because it was requested, but I think that this, you know,
probably needs to be in for FY27. Um because she still has a lot of money left over. >> Yeah, let's look into that and see. >> We've done it for two years. >> It seems to me and I just >> Yeah, we haven't put money into it in the last couple years, but like there is money left over because we haven't
surv So if you guys know anyone that likes to What will we do with that information? I guess >> we will be able to like um have a plan for it. I mean, right now it's like unknown lots and you know, so if you don't know what the property is
and who owns it and can't do anything until we get that information relevant because I think they're supposed [laughter] to >> we just take it. >> Are we Yeah. Are we taking money by tax title if they can't?
>> Can't Yeah. If we don't if it's >> unknown bills. >> Yeah. We have to fill it and then go through a whole process in order to put a tax and foreclose on it and we can't do that without >> you have to be able to contact the owner, >> right? >> And like Essex has this problem
significant basis. >> They agree. >> Um whole pad upgrades. Um self-explanatory. >> Um fire is a officer in command vehicle. Um
>> part of the replacement schedule. >> What do you mean officer in command vehicle? >> That's the basic. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that's a rotating whoever the most superior officer on that >> is that the red thingual.
>> Yeah. Is that what you're asking? I I >> Yeah. I What vehicle are we replacing? Are we buying a new vehicle or are we replacing a vehicle? And if we're replacing a vehicle, how old is it? >> This goes to our long conversation about
what vehicles do we own, what year are they, how many miles are on, what kind of condition, etc. That that's all in the I think in the backup and the fleet schedule. We'll give you guys all that information. >> And do we have an issue with the chief's car?
>> Yeah. Do we? >> Uh, yeah. >> Any more? >> Yeah. No, it's been resolved. >> It's been replaced. >> Okay. So, we don't need any money in the budget for it. >> No insurance covered the cost.
>> Okay. Good. >> Okay. >> Uh, the next one is a cardiac monitor AD replacement. Um, this is payment three of three. kind of spread the payment over those three years. Uh, next one's buyer and gym replacement fund for $350,000.
>> But is is that is that one of the is that the total cost or is that >> payment three? So >> payment number three. Yeah, I see. >> So the last year until they have to start over again. >> Okay. >> Longer than that.
>> Um, fire engine replacement 300. >> That's what we agreed to on the schedule, correct? It's like 300 350 350. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um firefighting equipment um 70,000 that this is it's kind of like a
um lumped in thing to include hose replacement um firefighter turnout gear um because now they're starting to require the PAS free um turnout gear. Jake Salon wants to talk about that.
>> Sure. Yeah. Um so this is a the line item is to replace some gear and hose as well as we were as you know we were awarded the SCBA uh self-contained breathing apparatus grant. We also need to upgrade the fill station which um I
believe we have a agreement with another town kind of a three-way ber barter system in order to upgrade our system to to meet the demands. But this is also has some money as a safeguard in case that doesn't go through uh in order to
meet the requirements to fill our new SCBAs. >> The tank compressed air tanks. >> Uh yes. So the new new bottles that we wear on our back uh are filled to 5,500 PSI. Um and our old ones were 4500. So
the compressor that was in the building currently only fills to 4500. So, we need to increase the capacity, but we believe we have a um town that can use our current compressor and working with the vendor um to kind of move
compressors around the northeast region so we get the 5,500 PSI. Uh but that's not 100% yet. So, I need to have some a backup plan if that falls through. Next is the harbor master section. Um they requested the first two kind of go
together. It's um equipment transport emergency response is a vehicle a truck to haul the over the road hydraulic trailer. Um so currently have a few trailers. Um some are tied to specific boats. Um this one would replace those replace, you know, the ongoing
maintenance for two trailers and move it into one. And then this trailer will be able to haul every seat. >> One trailer with multiple boats >> one at a time. >> And where do what do you do with the boats when they're not on the trailer? >> Yes.
>> Put them on stands and store them. >> Yeah. Yeah. At the water >> water treatment plant. >> Water treatment plant. >> Water treatment plant. >> What would it cost to haul the boats from like Crosby's or somewhere? >> Uh so Andy, you were working on that
today. uh he put together some numbers actually uh for for a saving. So, do you have that off the top of your head, Andy? >> Uh I don't, but I did give it to uh Tony, >> but
we're looking at >> Yeah. So, Andy was pulling together kind of a cost comparison to be able to show the >> potent that question on that. Is there a service that does that? >> Like, you know, there used to be Joselyn
and I wonder if uh you can contract the boatyards. I mean, you know, we we negotiated with the boatyards for dock space and things like that. And at the time, they said, "Hey, can we do anything for the town?" You know, one of the things they could do for the town is
haul our boats at the end of the year. And, you know, it become a service periodically as opposed to a capital expenditure. I don't know. These numbers just seem high for something that's used to put a boat in at the beginning of the year and take it out at the end of the year. So that's just first impression of
them. But that also that also includes hauling during the year to service. Uh it it cuts down a lot of the costs that you know I mean we've tried over the especially Brian's tried over the years to kind of cut the costs you know trying to do the bottom paint oursel trying to
do some of the um services but we we have the ability to be kind of self-sufficient. I mean, when you're held up to the to the boaty yards, when you can put stuff in, it really holds holds us back. Uh, if we have to get
boats in and get them service before we send them down for training or regardless, this this opens up a lot more doors and it actually cuts our overall budget substantially. this the the trailer also Andy did touch on it. Uh the regular service throughout
the season, oil changes, um service required as part of um uh warranty work. Uh we have started doing more of that in house with Andy on board and uh to not
have to pay to have the boat go to a boatyard to be hauled. There are significant savings to be had overall with this inhouse approach. >> Yeah. So he's numbers together.
>> Yeah, it's good. >> I had a question. >> Yes, Steve. >> Um, we did we not recently approve a um vehicle for buying and couldn't that be
use it? Is that not big enough to pull a trailer? >> We're talking about a new trailer. >> Yeah. Not a car. >> No. What's the >> What's the 75,000 is for the truck to pull it? 75,000. >> Yes. So, so the 75,000 is for the for
the new truck to pull it. It's also going to be our kind of harbor mass response. Um, we're we're part of the port security grants. And because of that, we're required to respond at any instance, 24 hours a day from anywhere.
So, regardless if it's buying or if it's me, we have to be able to be able to get to the boats and get out there. So, that's part of it. Uh the other problem too is is right now we currently have a Ranger which isn't capable of pulling
this uh hydraulic trailer. This hydraulic trailer has uh the hydraulic pump. It's it's made of steel. It's made to pull all the way up to the launch, which the launch can run well over 7,000 lbs. So, do you need to upgrade the Ranger or
do you need two trucks, I guess, is the >> Well, I mean, I I'll speak to that. I mean, >> we could replace we could replace just the the Ranger, but my thing is is we send the kids out running to go paint docks, to go pick up
stuff all the time. And with this truck, it's it's got not only does it have what we need, but it has police sensitive gear in it because part of our job is doing 90B, which is law enforcement. So, we have we will have the capability of
actually doing reports in the truck if we have to and and responding over the road, which we don't want the kids obviously to be able to drive that truck. >> They wouldn't be able to. That's that that would not um that wouldn't be a thing. So the smaller
truck, the idea is the smaller truck would serve as the uh little work truck for uh spring service uh handling some of the debris that we pick up and move around. And then it could also be
utilized by other departments that needed a vehicle to go to meetings to get materials. Um, you know, Kery had a a a town vehicle. So if a department had had
to go to a meeting in Augusta, they would take the car. So the truck could also the small truck could serve that purpose. >> Okay. Information on this. I'm sorry. You're now talking you're going to have two vehicles in a department that two years ago had no vehicle and you're now
talking about using it for other departments and many of the other departments already have vehicles. So we're going to need more information on this. >> Yeah. I mean we're not we're >> Yeah. >> We shouldn't be getting into the weeds on any of these >> things. Yeah.
>> One of the things to consider though is Brian, you're probably going to be retiring soon. So that truck will be available. >> Okay. Okay, we're through talking about the trucks team. >> Okay. Pierce boats. >> We're talking Morris Pier.
>> Yes. >> What's that? >> Hi. Would you like to speak about the Morse Pier? >> Sure. Happy to. So, uh the Morris Pier fisherman's uh expansion uh or new pro. It's not an expansion. It's a the
project uh that brings the floats uh around to Reed Park will allow six or seven of our commercial fishermanmen to have year- round dockage. Uh SEC gave us 80% of the cost to engineer and permit this. This that
permitting is complete now. 20% was paid for through CPC voted at a town meeting. And uh last year when we were going through this budget process, I requested uh the 20% share of construction that we
need to match the 80% that would be uh provided by the seapport economic council. And for whatever reason, it didn't make it from the budget request to a vote on the floor at the town meeting in April.
So, um I'm back asking for that uh so that we can complete this project and put in our facility for the fishermen. >> Okay. >> So, this is the 20%.
>> Yep. Yep. >> The original we wouldn't pay anything for. >> Thank you. >> Um public safety boats. >> So, I'll take that one again. Uh we've requested
uh through a port security grant uh the funding for uh two boats to replace well we've discussed the two boats that would be replaced it would they would replace two boats.
Um, last year when we were going through this process, uh, we requested $100,000 from the waterway fund for, uh, a portion of the 25%
match. And at that time, I understood that, uh, the sale of the two boats that are being replaced would be used toward the balance of that 25%. And I now understand that that
is not the case. Can't happen. So, uh, this would be the balance of the 25% of the town share for the new votes. >> We'll be paying the the 2175 plus the 116 that we approved last year.
>> No, 217 total. >> So, like that should be less than 116. And so like what he was saying about like you know last year he only asked for the 116 because he thought the if you like sell the boats you get the money in to pay off but um doing my municipal accounting works I can't do
that. I need an appropriation. Um I can't just >> expend out of my revenue. Um, so that's why the this has been increased. >> So the the actual cost to the town the
>> would be reduced by the sale of the boats, but you would have the appropriation and just not spend it. So it would go back into free cash. >> Well, I would have to spend the appropriation >> fully to pay. But then you get >> and then then we get the proceeds in >> and then that goes to free cash.
>> What's the proceeds? The amount of proceeds. >> What's that? What the amount of the proceeds? >> The amount of the proceeds is about $18,000$100,000 >> for the sale of the boat >> estimated. >> Yeah, I I I think more than that
>> I had less than that 60 to 80,000 for the sale of the >> for the >> This is for the eastern and the and the yellow boat. >> Not the eastern. The eastern we would keep. >> So this is for the yellow boat. >> This is for Orange.
>> Orange. >> Sorry. I know it's moving fleets. >> So, what boats are we replacing? >> All right. So, uh same as last year. Uh the orange or yellow boat. Uh, and then the idea would be
that we would sell the Liberty, the aluminum backup launch and move the Eastern into the backup launch P position because it can carry the same exact number of passengers and it also
keeps a shallow water response capability uh in the harbor. So, if we're going to have a six passenger vessel, let's have it be able to uh do more than one thing for us.
>> So, there would be some value attached to that eastern that's being transferred to the launch service. So, we would have to add that to the capital outlay >> and reduce it by whatever we got for the
backup launch. >> Liberty. >> Yes. The Liberty one of the launches that Tom Bishop sold us. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So by that Sarah, you're saying we're not just going to give the Eastern to the launch, right? The launch >> service business.
>> Yeah. >> And Andrew, where's the 116 that got appropriated this year, >> right? Yes. >> No. No. What happens to the 116? >> We can keep It's still there and I can carry it over. >> Oh. >> Um, >> this would just this would add to it. So
it's not implicated by this complicated transaction, right? >> We're still targeting the same pair of votes that we talked about a year ago. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So just to understand, I'm sorry I'm a step behind you. Um so we have 116 allocated from last year and we have 217
we're asking for >> no 1015 for this year. >> Okay. All right. Got it. >> The 2175 is the total. >> Is the total. Thank you. >> Right. Yes. >> So this should be changed to 1015. >> Thank you. Okay, got it. All right, dredging.
>> I have a question. >> What's this for? >> Um, the harbor. >> It's um >> Well, it's a >> actual dredging, not permits and stuff. >> This is actual dredging. >> Okay. >> Okay, I understand that.
>> Got it. >> I think the um >> a lot of these we have from dredging fees. I mean we now have a fee for dredging where boat morning right is that right?
>> Yeah that's as part of your as part of your >> and this is a this is a net number this is after you >> no this would be the total and then we would determine where the payments coming from. >> Thank you. Okay. Right. >> Thank you.
>> I had a question on the harbor capital please. >> Yes. I just I'm wondering if we can delineate anything. I mean, right now this marine budget, our priority has got to be the
rotunda. And as any of this could be postponed to get the rotunda done, that's obviously the priority. Now, I have a strong feeling that if the Economic Development Council
would would give us more for the Rotunda if we said we were willing to postpone the 430 Morse Pier because we just fixed Morse Pier less than 10 years ago. So maybe we could put that off to prioritize the rotunda. It's just a
suggestion that, you know, everything's in a state of flux, but maybe if you identify things that you really need to have, um, it would help us down the road. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> So, is that something we can check into? >> Is it It's coming from the same source, >> is it? >> Uh, I don't know what what's the source of the Morse Pier grant. Morris Pier grant is seapport economic council. >> Okay. So it is the same source but it's
a new round. >> Okay. >> Um by do you think that that would have any implication on or any impact on our possibility of getting the SEC grant for Rotunda?
>> No. Nope. It won't. And uh it's just for some clarification, the uh Tux Rotunda is a parks and wreck facility. It's not a harbor facility. So um
you know the harbor fun >> marine priority right now. That's that's all >> it's in the harbor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Right on. So on the so on the dredging I know there's been you know
the desires for the harbor to you know pay for itself. Um 1.9 obviously we would have to I would think this would be a debt exclusion type um
project. But how >> the harbor, you know, how the harbor fees would pay that >> that part I haven't we haven't really figured out yet. >> Would almost have to be a bond, wouldn't it? >> I hope though. Yeah, especially the debt
service, >> right? [clears throat] >> Okay, let's keep going. >> I'll try and talk fast. >> Okay. >> Uh computer IT upgrades. Um we were trying to be on a three-year schedule for replace computer replacement. Um
we're actually past year five. Um so this is the majority of this is for a like complete revamp of all the computers >> to move to a three-year schedule. >> Eventually I would like to be on a threeear schedule. Yes.
>> This this is this is for hardware. >> Yes. >> Does this take into account Windows 11? the whole Windows 11, Windows 10 thing. >> Okay. >> Um there's some like I also include in here um a vulnerability assessment. Um so
previously if you remember we did a penetration testing. Um they also recognized the vulnerability as well. Uh the library construction funding for the ADA bathroom and additional repairs. Um we just heard today that um preliminary like what what
was it 60 50% design came in. >> I think they're in 15% design and it it's going to their number right now is less than 300. It's it's closer to 200 I think. So >> um they will have 90% design in
December. So we'll have a better idea of what this number is going to be. >> Did didn't we appropriate this money and it never got used? No. No. Well, we took it back. >> Took it back >> because >> went back into free cash.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Because they didn't use it. And this is a completely different plan. >> Thank you. >> Because the other one we required them to remove stacks >> and had an exterior. >> I don't I don't know. >> This is >> This is off the children's room, I
think. Right. >> Yeah. It's an addition, >> but they got us back because we only took back 250,000. This one's 300. So maybe >> come down to 200. So >> yeah, >> time [laughter] will tell. >> Yeah. >> Uh next is the anal police vehicle.
>> Yep. >> Um also is the taser certification. Um believe this is the last payment. Um we've had this 12,600 in there for >> Oh, I thought last year was the last payment. Yes, that was off a year. Okay.
>> Um public works fleet replacement $70,000. um I believe for a truck. >> Um >> so again, we're going to need to know what is being replaced and how old it is and how many miles it is. >> 250s, 350s. >> I was just going to ask on the fleet
schedule thing if if you could let us know like how many vehicles are licensed and also if possible what the insurance is on these things. I mean it's becoming really complicated figuring out what's coming and going particular these capitalists. And I think if we could tag
it down to what's the cost of operating the thing, registration and insurance, and what's the vehicle life, that'd be great. >> There were 23 as of our close of our last budget cycle. >> Yeah. >> But so that's a number to try to see if
we can now adjust. I mean account for >> uh the next two, drainage and sidewalks and roadway improvements are kind of our annual of our annual plan. Um, Bennett Street reconstruction is the um, planning and >> design
>> design for um, Bennett Street. >> Um, general building maintenance 75,000. Um, we increased it a little bit for other um, projects that we anticipate it being a little bit more expensive. >> Does that include the library? >> No. >> No.
>> Why isn't the library included in this line? And the reason I'm saying that is because the amount we have to spend on materials is a function of the library budget. And it seems to me this is a town building.
And if the maintenance for all the town buildings are in this budget, the library should be in here. >> So we we could put it in there. It just ca, you know, it's listed this way because it came from the li it was a library request. So this is how how they
came in. These requests came in to us from each of these departments. >> No, no. I'm talking about general library maintenance. There's nothing under the library for that >> and operating as opposed to the bathroom. >> Correct. >> General building maintenance. >> Oh, I thought as opposed to No, no, no.
I'm talking about general maintenance library. >> It does. Oh, we we do it does inspections inspections, all that stuff. It does. You >> got to do that because >> um under the library in order to stay as
a uh >> accredited library, 18 and a half% of your total budget has to be spent on material. But we, you know, if you throw in >> right >> a significant building expense in there,
>> has a trickle down effect to all the other costs. So we try to kind of >> bring it into a separate budget. >> Go ahead. >> Next one is 4.1 million for um a complete tap and street reconstruction
water sewer paving sidewalk >> underground utilities and everything. >> Is this a 20? Oh, it is a 20 next year's 27. This is a 27. Yeah, that's that's what Chuck said to us. Yeah. Um the next one is uh $2 million for the DPW
facility. >> So this is this is the next phase of design for DPW or uh public safety combination. Um it's likely that we won't be ready
for this at Springtown meeting. >> Uh but you know, we did want to put it in make sure it's on. Okay. On our radar. >> Next one's sewer. Sewer treatment plant. Um 600,000. Again, this is like our
annual >> um expenditure for that um water. >> I have a comment. >> Set aside um funds and capital for the month like filters and replacement of >> equipment. Yep. And things like that. Yes.
>> Yes. Dean. >> Yeah. Uh, I was wondering if we shouldn't be paying down our the bond money we've allowed for the sewer before we do the another 600,000. I mean, we I think we have like three and a half
million sitting there, right? >> We haven't we haven't spent that money yet, though. So, how do you pay it down? And the 600 >> because it's not for that. It's it's over and above that. >> Okay. When is there a bid schedule for
that uh sewer plant? >> Next >> spring. >> Okay. >> Okay. Next one. Next one. >> Uh water 12 million for water plant improvements on the path upgrades. >> And that's just Lincoln Street. Well,
>> and then plus the you just skipped over the million for water man. And does this does this actually cover the PAS problem >> for Lincoln Street? Street. >> So we got another well.
>> We got Grally Pond treatment center >> at the main the main uh water treatment plant. >> But as J Chuck was explaining to me, they have to do them at separate points in time because they need to keep one
thing running while the other one's closed. >> Right. Right. >> So, he'll come back for the next one next year or >> or in five years? >> No, we're not waiting that long. >> Well, I don't think grally is out of
compliance anyway, but it will be if we keep that compost facility there. [clears throat] >> And what does this cover? >> Construction is it? >> This 12 million is construction at Lincoln Street. Yep. I knew it was Lincoln construction. >> They have to enlarge the building.
Correct. to have room for the >> system. >> Actually, actually, no, Sarah. We we won't actually have to enlarge the building. That was why we we did the piloting over the last, you know, 12 months or so. Um we we're actually going to, you know, have good news on that front. We won't need to build a new
building at Grley Pond. We'll just need to retrofit the filters uh with the DAC material that we're going to be using at Lincoln Street. So, we've we've got a we've got a plan. Um we'll have to design. >> She was referring to Lincoln Street. Right. That will need a new building.
I'm sorry. I thought we were still talking about grally. >> Yeah. So, grally will be less expensive. >> Yes. Correct. >> And a separate project. >> And a separate project. >> So, Chuck, is there any permitting constraints on doing um Lincoln Street that might upset the schedule or is it
just do it? >> No, it's all I mean it's it's local Boncom approval we'll need which we're about to submit for. uh we D has you know approved our piloting studies and all that kind of stuff. So we we will have a formal submitt to D for the
construction portion but you know that that should be a you know just routine type submitt and approval. Um so I don't I don't see any deal breakers in this you know keeping us from going to design and full full design and then construction.
So that's total request from departments is 24.3. Um and then what we added after that was council on aging um the senior center uh [clears throat] central street culvert and ratunda. So all of these are kind of
unique. Um, with the senior center, um, we're likely going to have to, uh, borrow the funds upfront and then that would be reimbursed through the fundraising effort. Whether
there's two pieces to that. Uh, one, you know, for us when we go to do a project, we have to have the money in hand in order to sign a contract. So whether it's, you know, sooner or later, um there's that element of it. There's also
the the sooner we can get the project started, it's if you know cost of construction tends to increase a year by year. And then uh lastly with ECCF which is Essex County Community Foundable
Foundation Charitable Foundation. They are the they're the nonprofit that's actually going to be doing the fund raise or the fundraising will go through them and they can't just provide us money as it's
raised. We actually you know it's actually like an invoice transaction >> like reimbursement. >> So are they managing the fundraising effort? And has that started? >> No, >> it hasn't started formally yet. Um, part of that is because the condo docks and
the closing on the property is the next big step. Part of that is also the final design >> aka we we don't own it yet. >> I thought sorry, I guess this is so slow that we're going to all be seniors by
the support organ. Did they break the news? Because Oh, no. >> I really would like to see this deferred to next year's budget. I I have a serious concern about appropriating
money when we haven't started fundraising. We don't own the building. And in October of 24, I had to rush a ZBA decision so that the documents could be signed so that we could close on the
purchase by the end of October 24. Um, >> how do you feel about this? I have no confidence >> to build in the >> Well, also at the town meeting, I certainly remember somebody saying, "If
you guys put up the million dollars that we're going to put up, that's all you're going to have to put up because the rest of it's going to be funded by all the nice people in town." And there we sure got a lot of nice rich people, which is great. So that's fine. But this isn't,
>> you know, it doesn't follow to see the results of the fundraising effort, >> right? >> I I would I'd like to see so so some of the fundraising may be a three-year process. >> Um that could be in terms of commitment,
you know, there could be uh commitment from certain donors that they're going to >> fund raise so much each year. >> That's fine. Um it'd be nice to have that have a better understanding of that when you're going to town meeting to say like this fundraising effort is
happening and it is going to pay for this >> uh to give them that sense of security. So um I will say uh we had a very positive meeting today on the design and
we have had I said it today during department head meeting for the first time since I've been here I can I feel confident saying we are extremely close to closing on the property that we are
we're we are aligned with the Mason on the on the cont. I've never said that yet, but you said it tonight. I said it tonight, >> Marcus. >> So, just as a thought in the in the
world of nonprofit development, it's a whole lot easier to raise money when you have a cause in front of you as opposed to repaying a municipal bill that's already been paid. And and I just I I
have a hard time thinking how that's gonna work out from a motivational point of view with people. It's just, you know, when you're trying to build a hospital, you have a thermometer out front. Everybody wants the hospital and the thermometer, you know, they they do it. It's this is a hard this is a hard
one. >> The other one is I'm just jumping ahead a little bit. I mean, we're looking about 35 million on this sheet when we add this up. The other big elephant in the room is Essex Elementary which is coming up probably within the next 24 or
36 months. >> Fiscal year 28 or >> but we're talking about a number that's going to be >> the date from >> Are we talking fiscal year 28 to have to fund that appropriate that? So construction I think would probably be
28 or April 28 would be sort of the fiscal 28. >> Fiscal 28. >> Beginning of 28 or the end of 28. >> No, I'm actually think calendar date. >> Okay. So >> beginning of 28 or end? >> I think beginning of 28.
>> Okay. So that's fiscal year 28 budget. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But taxpayers, they they see one number and then a year later they're seeing a a number that's probably approaching two times this number.
>> That's a I mean we just I think we need to think about this here. It's >> that what we need I think the next steps are to convert into the impact on the tax rate. I think we
have to take the normal capital you know this a lot of this is normal capital right >> have the normal capital look at that and see what portion can be paid from fund balance >> you go to the other page that's split in
the two boxes I tried to >> start that's why I did it this way >> because when you get down to the $30 million you start kind of thinking about it that way but >> so COA the we talked about that Central
Street Culver is a kind of it's a the secondary backup plan. So, we have brick funding, but it expires in April. Uh it could get an extension. We don't know yet. Um we're applying for an MVP grant
that could be a backup funding source if the brick grant doesn't uh if the brick grant falls through. This would be a backup to that. Um, so, uh, that's another, >> so we appropriate but don't necessarily
ever have to spend. >> Right. Right. >> And then Ratunda, same thing. So, we've applied for the SEC grant. Um, we should know in the next month or so. Um, typically you find out in November, but
the application process was delayed a little bit more than a month. So it may be December, January that we find out. But CPC, we we were thinking of a CPC borrowing article and their application
deadline is December >> 1st. So a loose loose deadline. >> I Yeah, I understand. But I this is a big number. I want to So we're going to submit the application to CPC just to put it just so that they're aware that this is something that we may
uh pursuit unless you know we wanted to go a different route. So when you look at this other page and you start to separate those out uh reoccurring to some of the larger numbers that would be capital or debt exclusion, you can start to see how that rounds
out. Even, you know, if you were to say yes to everything on this sheet, which I'm sure we're not going to, but if you if you if you were to, that three 33 number, uh, you know, exceeds our
ability within taxation and fund balance that it's going to. So, um, we started to kind of talk about that, you know, do you you could move we could, um, move like there's some of the things up in this upper box that you
could move down and combine. Uh, for instance, like Tap and Street reconstruction, you could add um, roadway [clears throat] improvements, um, drainage and sidewalk, Bennett Street design if you want. you know, those are some of the different things
we could think about. >> Yeah, I think we we need to understand the numbers behind it. I think the other thing that we've been doing in prior years is the 660,000 capital exclusion. And I think that if
we move away from that, it will fund a large portion of the long-term bonding. I think Andrea's concern is she wants to keep
the cash exclusion until we're actually ready to start paying for bonds so that there's not a 2% a drop 2% drop in the rate and then >> go back up. Um, so we need to figure out when we're going to start
paying off >> bonds. And if it's in this fiscal year, then the capital exclusion should be decreased by the amount, >> right, >> we're going to spend on those ones we approved before in prior years. And and you can't really
um I guess you could, but we were talking a little bit about this like it be strange I guess if you were asking for the same, you know, capital exclusion for the same project as the debt exclusion,
>> right? It have to be some a different it would the capital exclusion would have to come probably come from the normal, >> right? >> The normal capital items. So you could leave the drink, you know, you could do the ropeway stuff in that >> and have the stuff at the bottom be the
long-term debt, >> right? [clears throat] Tap and be the long term and then it kind of shifts into that. They're both >> and I and I think we need the calculations, you know, several ways like if we defer
the DPW facility and the Council on Aging, >> you know, what impact that is on the tax rate. I I think we have about one and a half% left in excess
levy capacity. >> Yep. Yep. um which we need to think about >> using um >> so one question is I think the upper box lower box makes a lot of sense and it's it's a pattern we've used before
um Tapen Street you know um is that really a one-time and I'm thinking about road work of that magnitude is that a one-time event or in two years are we going to be doing >> Bennett Street >> Bennett Street and somebody else and you
know at some point it's you know I don't know Tony maybe this list ought to be what what do we do for annual capital what's the sort of fiveyear recurring and then what's the what's the stuff we're doing now that's going to have we don't see it for 20 years or 10 years or 15 years that kind
of perspective because >> I I know we did um um Pleasant you know Pleasant was a big undertaking you know for the it was disruption and just but I think we're always faced with some of that. We can't get away from
what's a necess you know um roadway improvement drainage sidewalks as kind of like your >> standard >> your standard because those are roads that might not need underground utilities and >> you know but some of these some of these roads need
>> y they work is very much one >> it's not just the road exactly yes this kind of looks at this is Here you've seen this predates me, but this is a longterm. >> Yes, this is the art
>> and we we didn't even print the whole thing out. >> Part of it. >> You were asking struck. Thank you, by the way, for helping me find it. So that that was kind of like where I
was going too is we've had success with the way that you know we've approached town meeting on a lot of the the way that we've done things with that capital exclusion and um you know larger projects doing >> bonds >> doing bonds and the debt exclusion uh
vote. Um, but we're now kind of entering this new chapter of these really large numbers becoming kind of like a reoccurring
>> Yep. >> element and you you know to continue that cap that annual capital exclusion number on off of it on an annual basis. It starts to, you know, you as a resident, you start
going to the ballot box on an annual basis going, this is really >> get big. >> Yeah. So we got to start thinking about we do have to start thinking about long term and how uh because you know what you do this
year could have a detrimental impact on the big number question the big you know money project that's coming up next year because as a resident you might say wait I just approved 12 15 16 million last
here and now I got another. >> But we've been laying the groundwork from that for that. >> Yeah. And that's why I wanted >> I mean I think we're made we've made it clear to people that we have a lot of capital and we're going to need long-term debt every year. >> So I don't I don't see there's an issue
of going every year to the ballot box for a debt exclusion. >> I see it general override. Sarah, >> what >> I'd like to add that we have been
looking at maybe even doing a maintenance bond to do this roadway work and spread it out over, you know, time, but it might be worth the interest to do that. But what isn't really tolerable is to put maintenance stuff like that
outside of the 2 and 12%. So, if we do a maintenance bond, we need a a a fund to to to pay for it within the 2 and a half%. And I I think we can leverage a lot more work. We're just going to have to pay interest. But that's how
>> I'm not I'm not I'm not in favor of doing a maintenance bond. I think that >> you know, when I do maintenance on my house, I don't go out and borrow it. Um you know, I think maintenance you need to pay cash. Um, and bonding should be
for long-term capital improvements. >> I guess when I said maintenance, I I meant upgrading the sewer and the drainage and the and the you know it these things are have annual costs and we haven't done them for five 50 years
and there's a backlog. >> We've been spending millions every year on that stuff. I guess it's not enough >> is is there's so much and Chuck can speak to this but what I'm always hearing is there's so much change and
improvement that the town could sustain in a given year. Pleasant Street was a good example. You know, we we did a lot of work on Pleasant Street is incredibly disruptive. The town got a little antsy. So, there's a certain amount of work we
can do on a on an annual basis. And I think if we ask Chuck, what's the amount of work that has to be done across the entire town? We've probably got 25 years of continuous work all the time. So this is an ongoing recurring cost. I think frontloading it, lumping it up in a bond
is going to be >> I don't know. I would I would just I just keep whittling away at it like the way we've been doing. But maybe I'm not maybe >> I think we're on a good path for the you know, pipes and wires and road ever. You know, I don't I don't see a reason to to
change that. >> Yeah. Honestly, >> you know, we have a lot of projects coming. We have to keep track of our aggregate debt. We can't issue unlimited either. So, >> right. Right. >> Yeah. I think the debt surface can't be more than 10%
the operating budget. Is that correct? >> The debt surf service, but we're also talking about total amount of debt. >> I don't think there's limits on that. No, they're in the limits. But we our bond rating. >> Yeah, it's a certain percentage
equalized valuation. >> Okay. Okay. >> Well, and I also know, you know, that what we talked about the last time was being a little bit more conservative on our revenues and kind of shrinking that free cash amount.
Um, so we start to kind of like if we're really tight on on that side of it, the cash amount that you're going to have on an annual basis to put towards the house maint >> from free cash.
>> Yeah. So now it we're kind of >> pushing both ends. >> Well, yeah, >> a little bit. But I but I think we need to just kind of >> take this and figure out where it lies
>> and figure out >> to get into the details of some of this, right? >> What's what is appropriate for 27 and what might get pushed to 28 >> and we can't really do that if we don't have the numbers regarding the impact on the tax rate. I think
>> right >> because that's really what >> Yeah. I mean, we were kind of >> It's by the way, back to the school question. I think I think that they're starting to explore the idea of potentially
making that ask in the fall of 26, >> the elementary. >> Yeah, it has to get um you know, so if they get through this grant design um yeah, I think it probably come to this time next year, so it be like a
fall town meeting. Yeah. Oh, so it's much sooner where there would be no Well, that's that's the that's the uh that's the ask to go forward with the project. You know, right now we're in schematic design. They sort of they at
the end of schematic design with the state, you determine the budget for the project and then that budget gets put before the town. Uh yes or no. >> I see. >> And project goes forward, but you still have to complete design. >> I see. you know, which is
>> and so then the appropriation for the construction >> comes later >> would be later. >> That's when the Yeah, that's when the real, you know, the bonding needs to happen. >> And that you're saying
>> 20 beginning at 28, >> but you get goes before the voters. >> Yeah. >> This goes before the voters about a year from now. You're not looking at it from a political perspective. you know, we're talking about this stuff and and voters about a year from now. >> Is but that does that include the
appropriation a year from now? >> Um, >> or is that just moving forward on the project? >> I thought it was the appropriation I thought for like they were thinking about potentially in the fall of >> right >> 26. I'm trying to remember how the appropriation worked because you know,
you don't actually start paying for it. They're not >> for years. Right. Right. don't have a shovel. >> But the ask, >> right? >> But the ask and and I the same thing I'm thinking about it politically is if you're deferring COA and uh and DPW and all that's
hitting in the fall. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, that's they're they're voting for yes or no on whatever $7 million project. >> Yep. So the time this implies timing as I
recall in our last look at this this long schedule when a project's debt service comes into effect. >> Correct. >> Are there major timing changes? I'm thinking what you're saying about the school. Am I correct to think that the the debt service for the school would be
in 33? Am I is that am I reading that? It was 3. I'm >> sorry. You do short term, you do bands until the project's completed. >> Yes. >> So, you have to know your timeline for each project in order to know.
>> And the question is, has our timeline change? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. Well, I think when we originally put this together, we were hoping that Essex Elementary would kick into gear around 2031 or 2030 and we would roll off debt from the high
school, but we would not be covering three sets of debts at the same time, but I think the project is advanced Essex Elementary. >> So, this is out of date. But the whole logic with this was how do we move
through the next roughly 30 years, 25 years and not end up with a great big lump somewhere where we were going to be like damn. [clears throat] >> So that was the objective. >> So Andy on the school,
>> what's your opinion as to when the bond payments are likely to kick in? >> I think it's probably like a two-year job construction wise. So if it starts in >> so it's going to start in 28 >> and then it you know maybe finishes in 30. >> Okay. >> And then
>> so this is a year different. >> So maybe >> well no and then you issue the debt and then you pay it the next year. >> Right. Okay. So it's not too I don't think it's too different from what we're showing. >> Yeah. And I and I think you know I mean the
school is an exception of of a project or or of a of a debt impact that kind of looks down you know five years or so from now. >> Um most of these other things are in my mind you know we're sort of looking at this you know three to five year kind of
window as we go along. There's no benefit in looking right >> too deeply you know past FY 30 or so. So, so I think that on these projects we're talking about
bonding, >> we need to understand from the time if we appropriate money like at the April town meeting, when would construction be completed,
when would we have to start paying the bond payments? and approximately what would those be as on the tax rate >> so that we can lay out not just what we're approving but when we're
actually going to have to pay for it because that's when that's important to people >> of this right what just said >> one other component that you should add though is bonds that we've already approved that haven't hit yet because
they'll >> right. >> Yes. Agreed. >> Yeah. I think that's important just to understand um because these are big numbers. >> Yes. A lot of them. >> But if you can explain the impacts on
the tax rate, it's so it makes it easier for people to understand >> the uh on the PAS. Um, so we're we're apply for SRF uh SRF loan there. So it's a state revolving fund. It's a low
interest long-term borrowing with potential debt forgiveness. >> I would I would think for this exercise, you ignore the possibility of debt forgiveness, right? >> I like the
project for that project. Yeah. like that. >> But there's death service to that fund. I mean, well, I'm not quite sure. >> I don't
I got it. Okay. >> At one point last year, weren't we targeting the PAS plant as an override item >> or possibly? >> No. >> No. Okay. We've never talked a general
override. We've talked debt exclusions, which are overrides. >> Right. Okay. Right. >> Okay. So, [sighs and gasps] I think we really need that information um before we discuss this again. And I
think the question is is do we want to have a meeting in December to go over capital again in addition to the meeting we have with the select board for the
presentation of the budget. I think so >> I think we need more information on this. So >> well I mean once we get that right. >> Yeah. But and I I think we have to allow for enough time for a full discussion. >> Right. So my point there is if the
general presentation of the budget >> it needs to be a separate meeting. >> Yes, that's what I >> and maybe homework that comes out of this you know >> discussion. >> So what's the reasonable timeline for pulling together the information was your question?
[clears throat] I just know the schedule doesn't get any easier when we get into next year. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> When do you Let me ask this. When do you typically do the meeting of the select group? >> The um wait a minute. It's normally
would be like >> middle of December >> third week like the fifth generally it's been at a select board meeting right? >> Yeah. So that would put it like a 15 >> of what month? >> December.
>> December. >> We'd like to stay away from Christmas week, please. So I mean it could be the joint meeting could be on a Thursday
with a fincom meeting [clears throat] um if the select board agreed. Right. >> You mean like the 18th? Is that what you're >> Yeah. They need more time to put it together is what I'm thinking. >> I I I
can't imagine looking at the calendar, I can't imagine with next week uh that we would be ready with that information early though, you know, the first week of December. I feel like it would have to be the week before
the 15th, like the week of the 8th. But is that too tight to the meeting with the select board? >> Oh, no. I see this as kind of separate. >> Oh, okay. >> I mean, normally normally we some years we've done
capital in, you know, February or March and we're trying to move it up. And so I think I mean we we can't finish the capital until we understand what the operating budget is, but I think that there's so much on this list. It would
be nice to winnow it down some if it makes sense. >> Um >> we need more than one pass at it that that February March allows, >> right? >> So even if we end up revisiting it, then you know we we've got a lot of it >> for finer numbers. Yeah. So do we want
to meet on the 11th to do capital. >> That's okay by me. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Second pass of capital. Wednesdays are out, right? Because of your schedule.
>> We could do Wednesday the 10th. that week. >> I can do Wednesday the 10th. That would be my preference. I'd like to be there. >> Are people >> I cannot make the 10th. But >> John, are you
wait >> that week? What's the decision? Let's go for the 10th. >> The 10th. >> The 10th. >> Okay.
[clears throat] And that moves us to capital. >> Nothing else. >> Good luck. >> Simple. >> We do capital on the 10th and then meet with the select board on the 15th. Right. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Which is a Monday, >> which is where we usually meet. >> Right. Exactly. And that will be presentation of the joint budget. And then January 8th, we'll start our weekly
meetings. [clears throat] And usually that first meeting, we kind of just kind of peruse the whole budget and see if there's specific areas where we're going to want more information and
then set the schedule. >> And that's likely going to be Thursdays going forward. Is that the board? Yes. >> That's what we agreed to. Would >> we still [clears throat] meeting with the board select board on the 15th? >> Yeah. Yeah.
I mean the meeting on the 15th we it's it's just pretty >> it's just pretty cursory. >> Actually I have a building committee meeting that night so I might skip. >> Okay. Yeah. And then because then that gives people time to look at it before
we meet on January 8th so that people can have highlighted the areas where they think they have want more information. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And the budget will come electronically in how how will it be
presented operating budget now talking about >> whatever you guys are used to >> let's share what I have cleared back so I plan Yay plan do a PDF um if I if anyone wants a physical copy make one
>> and as numbers get varied will they be updated in the PDF or as as we go along through the weeks. >> I'll probably just update those specific pages. >> Yes. Because they get [clears throat] sometimes there's adjustments as we go
along. So you'll you'll reissue the PDF each time or you'll have it as like a shared doc. >> I don't know what would be better like should I is it best to reissue the entire PDF or just the specific pages?
>> Change and we have four addendum pages and we're trying to remember which addendum goes back to the old >> it goes back to the summary. >> You end up with too many files open >> impacts the summary and >> yeah exactly >> it gets very confusing for us. I was going to say if you just like you can
rev number it like the week whatever week you do. So like if you did February 2nd and then you revved it February 11th and February 17th >> then we all can look at it and go oh yeah are we all on the 17th? Yeah. Here we go.
>> That that's workable. >> Does that work for everyone? >> Are you okay with that? >> I'll do my best and if I run into any issues I will let you know. >> Okay. Okay. >> Hey, what was that? Sorry. >> You upload it into the cloud that
everybody has access. You email it out to everybody. >> We don't have SharePoint or anything or you don't have access to SharePoint because we don't have um Manchester emails.
Because we're not elected, so we don't count. >> Oh, is that the rule? You have to be elected. [laughter] >> Why not? I mean, but >> if we figured something out, would that
be helpful? >> It depends how we access it >> as a shared document. >> No, he's not talking. I think they're talking >> having like a drop off >> point is more like >> Dropbox. Yeah, that would be great. >> I mean, you know, >> from like emailing and attaching and all
that kind of >> just so everything is in one spot. >> Yeah. >> You know, looking. >> I mean, there's also the online version of um their gov >> website >> they can go to that'll be the same as a
PDF, >> but it's different. >> So, that would work that would work well if we actually >> refer to it, you know, right? and like put it up on the screen, what have you, because it it's formatted differently. >> It is. >> I I've kind of >> started to figure out how to how to
track the conversations, but >> it's not like page numbers like it is on the PDF. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you wanted to get a hard copy, could you come to town hall and get a hard copy? >> Absolutely. Let me know. Let Andrea know. [laughter]
>> Absolutely. >> Um we've got lots more on our agenda, but it's 920. Um do we skip the updates? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, I was asked to put Gordon
Woods on the agenda because there's [clears throat] been some um I guess Erica Brown has been >> she's been asking how we >> looking for information. Um, and you
know, based on what I know, there's no definitive plan. There's no there there's we don't even know if a project is going to occur because they're still doing
their due diligence. Um, and it seems to me we don't want to spin spin any of our wheels until something's actually presented to the select board. Um and I would suggest
that we probably don't want to do any when we had SLV we did financial um something or other um I would suggest we don't even want to get involved in it probably until March or April.
I think her question is really about the logic that was used in the past and would this committee use the same logic going forward. >> Well, I don't want to get into that at this point. I I I think it's premature for her to be asking us questions. We
don't know what logic we would use until we know. >> I mean, we've always had a position of we don't We don't do things like we don't do things on zoning changes.
>> We used to >> Oh, because long time ago. >> Oh, they're too nebulous. And but we do do things when there's a specific project. >> Right. Right. >> And like the MBTA zoning we could do because there was a consultant that actually came back with the projected
number >> of units. Um so I don't really want her pushing us. um when there's nothing out there. Is that fair?
>> Yes. It's fine. >> You good with that, Tony? >> Sounds good to me. >> I feel if it's a similar type of project to what Shingle Mill was and it does if it does become a reality that we
probably should do a similar evaluation as we did with Shingle Hill. But cuz that's probably what she's looking for. But it you're right, it doesn't need to come until it's an issue. But at some point, >> I I'm just concerned that, you know, one
question leads to another question leads to another question. And I just don't think we're in a position to commit to anything at at this point except that, you know, if a project comes forward, the finance committee
[snorts] would do its due diligence and determine the methodology to be used at that point. >> That's not me digging either. somewhere. >> Um, okay. October minutes if people have a
chance to look at those. >> So, you're fine with me. >> They're fine by me. I wish I spell my name correctly. That's all. >> Oh, I know. It's a minor. If you just drop one N. It's not twinning. It's
twang. >> So, maybe we could ask Gil just to drop an >> Make sure. Yeah, make sure Gail know. I mean it's it's my understanding that we're now using AI. >> Ah well that's no >> so so [laughter]
>> your name has been >> that's no promise >> needs to know that he needs to look for twinning >> I I need my annual reminder. >> Sorry Peter. >> Okay Gail's got it.
>> Thank you Gail. I I move we approve the October minutes. I I had a a comment um on the CPC liaison. Um they said something about a state 1.6% rate, but it was the state match was
1.6% or 16%. Is what was said um on the liaison side. It was just it wasn't the state. >> Yeah. As edited 1.6. Got it.
>> Yeah, it's 16%. >> 16%. >> And it's not the tax rate, it's the state match. >> I got it. >> And I changed ours name to yours, Dean. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah.
>> Change my name, but don't but don't misspell it. [laughter] >> Okay. Do you move you move to approve amended minutes? >> Yes. >> And you second it, Andy. Andy seconded. Yeah. >> Take a vote. John doesn't vote because he wasn't there. Gar.
>> Yes. >> Peter, >> I wasn't there. >> Peter wasn't there. My >> yes. >> Andy? >> Yes. >> Sarah? >> Yes. Dean? >> Yes. >> Okay. Minutes are approved and we have our next meeting date. Is there anything else we need to discuss
>> since I skipped over some items >> tonight? I I would like Hello. >> Second. >> Raise my hand. There it is. I I wanted to mention uh on the senior center,
there was a thought I didn't get to say that I just the more I look at this, it doesn't look like it's going to meet the needs. Um just that one part of it. I just see all the the the
town offices up front and I look at what size room is left and I look at other towns and you know they have old elementary schools and stuff like that and I just don't see people getting inspired to fund this blue room.
So, what I was where I was going at wasn't going to be negative, but to think outside of the box, what I was wondering because our post office is huge next to all the other ones, would the postal service consider downsizing
from that facility into the blue room, you know, and we could use that as a something like that would be something that people would would fund, you know. Dean, I like your ideas, but the the fact of the matter is we're under
agreement with the Masonic Lodge, and there is a group of people who are working on the plans for the building, and our responsibility is to discuss the funding piece and not
the building itself. Well, I'm thinking that would be easier to fund if we had a different building. But anyway, >> then make that suggestion to the fundraising people. >> Right. Okay. >> Okay. >> I get it. >> It's just a feeling I'm getting from the
town. Yeah. >> Can I take a vote to adjourn? >> Yes. >> Lori? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> John? >> Yes. >> John? >> Yes. >> Peter? >> Yes. >> Sarah? Yes. Dean? Yes. >> Yes. >> Thank you.
I'll put my hand down. >> Can somebody hit that end button? >> Nothing any better.