##VIDEO ID:NZ4b9dINZWU## January 23rd and I will follow the finance committee meeting in order I have with me in the room the finance committee de nadus our newest member gar Mo welcome Peter Twi Andy Katon and myself Sarah Mish we have Andy olderman on Zoom um we also have in the room John round from the select board a Chuck Dam um director of DPW and Nate D roers DPW and this meeting is being recorded so our first item on the agenda is to review the fiscal year 26 DPW budget and I understand that Chuck have some slides yeah so I thought it would be helpful you know based on the last few conversations to just kind of get a read on you know what we have been doing you know in the past but also this FAL year where we are at as well as you know what we're seeing in future years uh you know within it's only like eight to 10 slides but you know at the end is where I kind of had my operating and you know any facilities question but the the first six or seven slides are kind of the bigger overarching questions about different you know bigger capital projects that are going on right now and you know again in the future and is it okay if we ask questions since should go on absolutely what yeah so you know we we can probably talk about all night so maybe think about it but uh you other than that sure okay so this is how I broke it out just to kind of talk about the pipeline roadway seeing every day violation of theed members meets with all members present a statute sets a deadline for the board to act on the matter before them only the planning board may act on this and three members are required for a quum three board members have Financial anyway um the School Street site which is the old compo site which you know we've talked about before for future dtws couple other thoughts about that which kind of you know is part of the overall facility master plan and then like said at the end we have operating facilities we just kind of a general year toe stuff uh so on Pipeline roadway the P stre pipeline work is done uh we'll be Paving it first thing in the spring Old desic Road was an ad alternate to that project that is funded and will be you know the pipeline work will start in this spring and we'll probably pave Old Road in the fall uh forest and Mill with part of the CST Grant Mass Works Grant uh the believe it or not the water main work and the forest main work are pretty much all complete you know some minor issues to resolve uh you know that's work ongoing in the winter uh we do have a small section on Four Street that needs to be done in the spring uh because it's going to require five tasks um and then uh the School Street section there's one piece of school street from basically the country club up to Mill Street that didn't get completed a couple years ago um so that this project is fixing that and then all the paving associated with that work will happen in the fall as well so are you only going to the cver that goes under 128 yes okay Y and that's only with the for the sewer the water M on Mill Street is new new than everything else in town and it's you know adequate size so there's no need to replace that okay portion and was old funded out of the the financing for Pleasant corre yeah the waterwork yeah y y um so that four there then just so it is where part of the um TST special perit with planning board uh was going to or they they basically paid the town to repay that water when their works all done so I just threw that on here as like work is kind of funded separately from uh plan board the town uh from town budget you know this is kind of a CSD payment to the town uh and we are that will include the work on upper school street from basically the onoff ramps at 128 up to the aown line um the first part of that was part of the CST uh payment to the town the second part of that going from at water to old to Essex town line uh that's something I'm working on a separate grant for um we'll just see how see how we do but that's are there barriers on that bridge across 128 so somebody hit it from the from 128 with a piece of equipment you know on a trailer and so they that's their solution to make sure that they don't over burden the remaining structure so you know they don't want say it was a accident or something they don't want a whole bunch of cars he up on top of the bridge uh and have something worse that's why they basically did that barer you can sit one of those chair if you want back and forth between ping here so the section between that water and the S Town Line That's the culber The Sawmill Brook cul under that was done recently I mean is there issues with that portion of the road uh so the the road is getting a little bit uh you know maybe not exactly at the cul but the rest of it you know the balance of it is I think you know fairly well is it plugged into the pavement maintenance program like how does it rank with stre tap Street uh we can get there in a second but the the real answer to the question is where the a requirement that CSC had was to add B Lings to the first section and so this will allow us to add like LS to the second right which isur it's not currently wide enough so it will include some Bing of the road to allow for bike Lanes separated bike Lanes I see and so we're going to it's only you know Mill and overlay we're not talking full reconstruction but that's why we'll do the whole thing so yeah so the taping and benett uh tapen didn't end up you know on this year's Capital plan but those are the next two projects uh that need to get done and those are full pipeline water sewer drain and then the roadway and sidewalks after that so those are you pretty substantial undertaking but those are the next one so this is the pipeline map that I always show you guys but the blue is the stuff that's been done since I've been here um the kind of lighter width lines are kind of the existing and the red is all the stuff that is highlighted on the yellow here uh but the red pipeline in the map that's all the pre 1900 pipe uh you can see there's still a significant amount even though it might seem like we're always doing water work uh there's a lot lot left to do and you know we' we've been getting a lot more questions recently you mentioned you know the one about the sidewalks but you know with all the wildfires even you know in Massachusetts uh you know people are starting to ask a lot more questions about forry management but also you know how are our hydrant doing how are our F do um and so you know every section of this red pipe you know pre 1800 pre 1900 pipe that gets replaced is you know direct benefit to you know our ability to Capac F fires and everything else and what's the lifespan of the work you're doing now so you know definitely 50y year life cycle no doubt um you know maybe 50 years from now we're testing from some substance that I don't know about that you know was in this event or something else but um you know by today's standards 50 years no problem um and you know potentially more um so you know this was something I developed last year but I kind of updated it so you can see from fy18 which is when I started fy2 you know including the CST Grant work but that's work that's getting piped out of the system uh you know we spent over 115 Million Dollar on Pipeline work uh I kind of updated the average on there the approximate weighted average 400 bucks a foot applied that you know to everything that's left so you know this spreadsheet actually goes on beyond what you can see on the screen but just to kind of show you know if we go out to FY 49 uh you know we spend few million dollars a year you know we're still not done it's still still going to be by like work to be done uh and so the value of that work was roughly you know $46 million um you know so you know if you spread it out over you know 20 20 years you're talking two million a year no no problem and that would take care of how much about red enough color almost all so you know you look at look at all these um you know streets you know all t almost every stre in town and we have it done already and you know uh those are kind of all on this sheet going down and you know I've prioritized them on you know a few different metrics but you they're all there um and we'll go down two questions are you still having difficulty getting Pike or is that become easier this no that's that's become easier um yeah we we didn't actually hear any about that on for street so for street is you know going from a 6 in you know 1900 pipe to a 12 in new um Dr Lon I I didn't actually hear anything about that so yeah second question is I know you've kind of established a sweet spot over the years of how much construction the town can s of tolerate before people get a little out of black d are we there you holding there you feel you could do a little more what's the well so for instance you know Pleasant and Forest M this past year right it's almost you know over $6 Million worth of Mark um that's aop I don't think anybody want and and you know that was a big you know big big pipe that needed to be done but also pleas as major kind of you know cross across town forry as well um you know so I think I hear it both ways I hear it from residents that uh I can't get out of my driveway you know and you know everything's a everything's a disaster but then I hear from other people it's like well people aren't using forestry as a cup anymore so I love it yeah gon do so just a variation on that question looks like your plan your name I'm sorry Kathy Kathy bat 21 Kine Street um it looks like your plan goes out to was it fiscal year 49 is yep okay so I'm gonna ask you a question my boss used to ask me all the time what would it take if you could wave a magic wand and funding was not a barrier how fast could you get rid of the red and how much would you need um and you don't have to answer right now but we need to ask the question that way because one option is to treat it like you're building a building right invest accelerate and get it done and and we we don't have the data to be able to have that type of discussion right now because we've been trying to live within Financial boundaries and just looking at a little differently not saying I have a magic wond but I think we need to ask the question so I would say in the next you know two to four years um the priority has to be getting tap in and Ben it done and so you know those are two that are kind of on separate sides of town that aren't major Aries and you know so I can May m one i' say we could we could certainly do those all at once you know we could have either one bid with one contractor doing both both of them or we could do two separate bids like we could we could do that work and I don't think the town would shut down um but that you know that we're talking 8 to 10 million to do all that at want so that's that's the priority that's what needs to be done the reason I say that is because waterm needs to get done but also the sewer is really driving those projects but if those get done faster then it allows you to do everything else faster absolutely and so that's what I would say and then that allows us to get the um roadway and sidewalks done for those those two streets um you know that much quicker let us get other things that much quicker um then after that um the answer changes a little bit because Summer and Bridge are well certainly summer and so summer you know I'm anticipating that we're probably not going to do all Summer Street all at once um because it's a very long Street and it's going to be cost prohib but if you were to tell me hey wave magic want and get it done um you know I'd have to look at what the number would be but it's it's a linear job so you know even if we had two Crews going on that job again it wouldn't shut down town it wouldn't people understand reason I'm asking the question we have a lot of you know big capital investment discussions we've got to have and make decisions about I I personally would like to see us present the pipe project as something that we can mingle in that conversation as an option we may choose not to do it but we can't we don't have the data to have the discussion so I think this year's budget and you know the kind of fiveyear capital plan is kind of looking at it the opposite way which is we have these big facility needs and so you know tap andry which may have been able to get done this coming FY 26 is not in FY 26 because of these bigger Capital needs so you're saying the DPW site is a lot is a bigger priority than the t and Street CL let's let's go there no but what I'm ask he doesn't make the priorities I I think the issue is I agree with you we need to know what the cost of things is instead of just throwing a few million app things yes a year that we need we need a plan and then we need to determine how to follow that plan and over what time agree so just my specific request is the next time we get together talk about facilities and priorities I'd like to understand what chunks of work could be done at an accelerated rate if we invested capital in that and then the select board can discuss with you what the priorities are right so I mean I think the the numbers are here um and you whichever way you want me to give to me you them to you yeah I'm just not sure they're chunked up in a way that we can absorb yeah if you can send if you can send this um de to me then I'll get that distributed to all of Finance just just one question along those lines do you have a feel of what the public tolerance for a construction zone is for any linear feet of pipe before people say this is too much right so the the work Zone moves with the work so you know I think you know it it is what it is they need to access the pipe they need to access the you know materials wherever they're staged you know so that that's going to vary from Street to Street did you he complaints about Pleasant Street a couple uh times you know there was uh the detours and this is an ongoing problem it's not you know just PL Street we had it in other places we cannot update you know website or a you know social media or anything fast enough to keep up with the contract they're moving from side to side and you know at some points they're working on Mainline at some points they're working on bypass some points they're working on side streets and so you know from even from day to day but like hour to hour within that time frame they're they're moving around so as soon as we put information out to say hey don't go you know westbound on F streets today um you know because it's going to be detoured it might it might be wrong and then people get upset the other way hey we we went by and it looked like there was no work going on but you said it was shut down sorry like you know we can't you don't have the ability to update in real time um So my answer to that is like you know work's going on on Pleasant Street if at all possible try and avoid it and if you can't you know just be prepared that there will be a detail officer telling you to go around or you know that you're going to have to wait a minute for the you know construction to clear or you know the L front end loor get by or whatever the case may be because it's a work zone until so it's not so that's just reality of construction point so I think if you provide that information though when we have the prority discussion and maybe look at the pipes differently I wouldn't let that communication issue be a barrier because there are ways um emergency preparedness and other you know technology that we have that we could use to send text messages so I just I wouldn't wor about the communication aspect being and hindering the discussion we we need to have right yeah the construction has to get done it's a temporary nuisance but they do the best they can go ahe yeah so I mean I think we're getting to the point where we shouldn't be looking at age Alone um a lot of this pipe is performing fine and we'll continue to it's a matter of finding which pipe is settling which pipe is cracking which pipe is under size so to do it all at once it doesn't I know it's just an exercise no I didn't suggest doing it all at once I'm suggesting chunking it up in groups that can be done at an accelerated rate because to do it you know all the way out through you know year fiscal year 49 stuff is going to break in the meantime we're just we're just delaying the inevitable so there is a way from a project management standpoint to chunk it up differently and I I don't want um there to be artificial barriers the select Board needs to have a discussion about those priorities and I'm not basing on a I was basing on age alone we have well the other thing you said that the other thing you said that kind of stuck out is the store pipe we're not replacing that that's 100 years old too it's so on be as well if so it's a it's a different thing so you know when we were under consent to our over the last decade for II leaky pipes on the suicide yeah uh you know we don't have to replace those we can line them we can reh them on tap and and benit specifically we could not and so we thought we were going to line those and we couldn't and so now they have to be replac that's why I those are my priority including the sewer including the the sewer uh just just spot L yeah they it's not street it's not it's not out okay we're still having issues ta that's why ta first is because that one really has issues yeah then it secondary but yes has issues I know it down bottom and so you know they they did the best they could with those jobs and you know some of the lining that they put in might have been just manhole specific not the liner from the line so you know we we have all these maps and all these uh you know reports that kind of document all this stuff but that's the general gist um and then I would say the the priority is not age because everything is the same age it's part the priority is um you know maintaining Public Safety in terms of the you know capacity of the pipes and the you know pipelines like for example you know colber road is just as old as Summer Street but Summer Street is the priority because it's the critical line to all of East Manchester so that's that's first and then I would say you know there's areas around Vine and Norwood where you know that's coming directly off the well once we spend 10 12 million rehabing the well uh and having the iron magnes not go into the distribution system it would be nice to get rid of the iron magnes that's already in the distribution system so there's there's a lot more to it but that's that's always in now um I read that the hydrant by the fire yesterday froze why the hydrant freeze is it strictly is it because they're old or is it because of the um so yeah there a couple different things to freeze and so in this particular instance the at the bottom so when we flush in the fall when we close that hydr after we flush the barrel is still full so except on bottom there's a drain Port that the hydrant itself is now you know isolated from the distribution system which is always maintaining pressure and so uh those seats because we have so much iron and magnetes in the in the water uh and you know Legacy now at this point like it's all you know just been there for 100 years um that will inhibit the valve from coming down flush in the pipe and so you might get a little trickling that just passes that and it's usually just going out the drain but then when we have these real cold stretches that water might freeze and so it's then they're not draining anymore and the water goes up until it freezes all the way up and so then when they go and spin that the the valve that normally operate up and down is frozen and so what I heard last night was they went to do that and it they literally bent the hi they couldn't actually open um and so you know that is really Case by case I I'll even know give our guys credit they actually have been out checking for Frozen hydrants because they know these 1971 kennedies always freeze are you know could potentially freze um so they were out there and today obviously thought that one out but they went down to the next one and I was talking to the chief today and it was actually proba a blessing in the size that that that one was frozen because they went to the next one back which was on Lincoln Street which if you look on this blue map that little blue section next to the well is Lincoln Street so they're actually pulling off a much better main that have better capacity and they were already pumping from the high drink uh through their lines up the driveway and so it was actually a better end to put out the fire to you know maintain the water on the fire that they were looking for um but you know they they did go to that hydrant they couldn't operate um and so you know that that is exactly what we do when we go to uh cleaning line Summer Street and you know this is what we did on pleas stre is we replace the hydrants as well as lining the pipe and the valves that you know even the line valves on the line not necessarily the hydrant um so you know that's that's stuff that gets rehabed now you know quicker than years than the fight's kind of conditioning you can do to the vals when you flush flush them in it's not really no I mean it's you know the best we can do is to flush them because that gets some of that some of that stuff L and helps move it but you know it's not a not a spin pool perfect system um so just other things I've heard you know there was talk about uh you know what's the next street or what's the run rate on the you know caving plan and stuff like that so this is actually we actually have again we have this information uh a roadway management plan uh payment management plan PMP and uh you know so this was done seven eight years ago actually before me but you know I'm working on it the information only gets you know when we replace a street it goes to 100 it's not rocket signs so anyway you can see the the stuff that's cross you probably can't see the you know names but in general you know we've done the one I have kind of blocks here in red those are the ones that were major Rehabilitation so we've you know picked off quite a few of those and you can see the ones that have Circle in green are the ones that are still ready which are Tapp and and vening and then the other ones that I haven't touched are you know curn road which you know it's a big long stretch of road but there's only three or four houses up there it's not a through Street same with craft Court Victoria Road you know so you know if I had unlimited funds I would pave those roads but you know I got to prioritize where we do the pipe um so that's you know just another thing that we look at you can see kind of further down there's other streets that have been done now School Street Mill Street um and so I I did the math on you know if we were just to take all the Pike Line work out of it you know just kind of what is your run rate we're looking at 20 20year life cycle typically on a new road um and if we're just going to do a millon overlay on the road you know we're looking at 30 bucks a square yard we have about 342,000 square yards a road so that's a $10 million price tag if we did it all at once and if you break it over 20 years because theoretically we're renewing every 20 years you're a little over 500 gr so if I were just a peg a number to always have in the budget it would be about 513,000 this relates to compensation that's why yeah which you guys brought up in previous the Run rate that's why he's mention and so of course you know that's not a perfect number from year to year but you know if we're spending less than that it's you know a detriment to the you know overall 20e cycle and you know there's always mixing and matching and more has to go on sewer work they may or may not need to get done drain work they may or may not need get done or know street lights so the you that's that's a CH have you filtered into this um you know Central Street Dam and the implications that's a 12 14 month project Street school that's why that's GNA do some wear later the there but yeah I do think that the update on the P situation so more question about pipeline sewer U ility uh you know the update on past you know as you know we' we've been looking at this longer than you know most of these towns but uh you know so we have a concept for the link Street well that was done in 22 uh EPA compliance deadline that was prolongated last year is 2029 um so that basically puts both the well and gravy Pawn out of compliance when that date hits if we do nothing um you know we this is kind of history but we did look at you know could we pipe the water up from Lincoln Street up to gradley pond that's why Pleasant Street kind of got held back a year um so then you know now we've completed the work on F Street because that turned out to be not an ideal option from a cost perspective for a treatment perspective uh so you know this year we've been doing the piloting for lry while that's done we had to Pilot both iron and magnes removal because there is no removal there right now um so that you know that's pretty tried and true you know there's lots of systems in Massachusetts that have to treat for iron magn so basically what we'll be looking at is a set of filters for iron Mages removal and then the thing that's kind of ongoing is we sent that filtered water from the pilot taking out the iron magnes to a lab where now they're running the past removal tests on that uh we expect that report next month um we will be out to RFQ on that design probably next month um we have that's where we're going to spend the grant we got from the federal uh earmark roughly a million you know the grant was 960,000 the project itself will be 1.2 million so that we anticipate that will get us through all of that design for Lincoln Street so that's you know on its path R fall a little bit different uh so that's a surface water source so it's not you know the same exact stuff um you know we have existing filters there what we we have piloted was first PP made us pilot if we were to change the media in those filters that are there now to the gak which removes the p uh you what kind of treatment would we get of the surface water so it's kind of a two prom question surface water needs to be treated for all the stuff it's in surface water besides what kind of treatment do we get there so we answered that question the answer was it actually treats better than the existing filters so that's great sorry and next we have to say based on our water and that constituents how much run time do we get through the gak removing the past before the past breaks through that question we found out last month you know because this has been an ongoing test we got about 17 weeks of runtime before we saw the past breakthrough uh we were hoping to get like 28 so not the best answer but not that um so now the question will be we're still doing the bench scale testing to find out you know if there's another media besides act it would work better or worse but that kind of the worst case scenario where we have to build basically a separate separate treatment plan versus using our existing treatment plan just smart media the question of the media what media works best and they are definitely priced or the Medias I guess each media has if we have to build a whole new building yeah that's where we get the new the other Med right now we can put Gap in our existing filters we treat for p even just not as long as we want so it becomes a ccle Cost question of yes how many times we have to pre or remove the gak and put in fresh new G the answer right now you know this is very much over certification but you know almost every 17 weeks which youing to get you know so it's like months so like if you look over a life cycle of 20y year capital investment you know that's a lot of Gap and that's a lot of disposal which that's the other big you know FL card is how much it going to cost us to dispose of this stuff because it's going to be a whole bunch of P so these are questions that still need the answer that's what we'll get uh over the next month or so when we get these reports back are there disposal sites set up that are considered hazardous waste they haven't really made it like this is all so new we're not sure yet um but so that's just to say this is still out there this is still a question that is being answered but it's still know I talking about the other C I'm not thinking about D I'm thinking more about this is you know this going be a big one um I will say I was also at Mass Waterworks conference yesterday the commissioner DP was there uh you know based on the new Administration um you know they're not expecting a lot of money to come to Massachusetts for srf projects meaning that you know we we may get some relief either through debt forgiveness or you know zero interest loans through srf but you know I'm not anticipating we're getting 50 50% you know you know cash fre or anything that so yeah we'll keep trying and you know we'll see what happens when the time comes but you know think we can all read the room when it comes to the federal government giving the state of Massachusetts yes I apologize I'm new I'm G ask a very general question and exhibit my stupidity about all this when you submit these um plans do you separate operating as cost from Capital costs and when you do like aing is that in the capital section or is that in the operating section yes so the all of these big big projects are definitely in capital uh they are in the fiveyear plan that I think is part of that but if it's not it's part of different okay look um the operating uh is really you know mostly salaries for the you know staff as well as you know the day-to-day items like electricity um you know gas for the trucks uh chemicals okay yeah pre maintenance one question we were talking about Lincoln Street a moment ago and my recollection a year or two ago was you were thinking the treatment might be 1.2 I think you reference that again but that's that's design only okay what do you think the nickel's going to be on I think I think the number we had was 11 but yeah Soom Linn Lincoln is what we have inom we just did a more recent study we did same idea app think the same the same kind of hit up at um Pond as well we have to build a be more 16 16 okay but you know if we get away with just Yak or we hit take a bigger hit on operating yeah we'll look at the life cyc C and see which one's better you know today's dollars but um but yeah question is is the reverse osmosis or the other ions Stu to far out or not practical or if this waste stuff gets too prohib I mean so the the an exchange you know you're still going to have the media issues and that's so there's not really a huge and you know it's more energy intensive on the r side so you know all that gets factored in and it doesn't save you you know maybe slightly smaller but you're still building a new building is it worth donating a couple of pages in the study to with some I mean we already have done some of that homework okay yeah so you that's part of the if you go to the website all the you know stuff is there great just another question I assume another variable that will be looked at in this report is what is the through foot cost per 100 gallons or whatever and if you ship the amount of water you're using from one place to another over a Year's period does it save you money because the cost per unit volume that is processed be high so there a fact a lot of other factors that go into that one of which is we don't have an unlimited Supply Bel well we can only pump that up to 300 a minute or something like 350 um and you know whereas the plan is much much more down minute um so the math doesn't work certain time of year um but yeah sorry I'm gonna ask one more question about to shut up why we're here um capital on the last page of the thing um it says Road resurfacing request 300,000 recommended 300 taxation 300,000 um I'm looking for a number which is all the road resurfacing that needs to be done over a long period of time that's what just gave you talking if I were to do it all tomorrow I'd say give me 10 million bucks okay Milli bus that would and and the same thing for all of the other Capital items here so that well so that's just looking at FY 26 so you know it may or may not be if there's also a 5year plan that sounds like it's not on that page okay that DPW water treatment you know we have AIS year 26 yeah we have a spreadsheet thank you we got it last fall yeah 40 years so I think that's on plant uh we we got our rfqs uh so that was funded at last town meeting for the $34 million per 4 million um so we're looking at you know the plant water system which was a big big deal uh but also doing a lot of mechanical work we firef fires package we have pumps uh and valves that need to be replaced pumps are all oversized and uh original uh we also have hbac generator and you know we're going to do some blood proofing for certain things that you know are vulnerable um so you three or four the four million is not going to cover all of that list but it'll we'll get there are they oversized because they're for the capacity of the system or I are we replacing them with less size right we'll probably do it's going to be a whole effort but the the moral story is when they side when they built and designed that plant they had a certain like $1.2 million2 1.2 million gallon design flow yeah our permits only for 670,000 gall and I think back then you know the the engineering was you know you have to anticipate all of this II coming in and you have to be able to treade for that so you don't have ssos csos um and so basically instead of allowing that to happen What DP and you know our permit makes us do is remove the II so we never see and we never you know have Peak demand that matches what those are sized for for average te and so you know on a you know right now there's you know there's barely any flow and assistance on it are you know low time of year because you know population's down there's not as much um you know demand as in the summer water side but then there's also not high groundwater right now there's not a lot of rain that's getting everything's frozen um you know so we're probably only seeing couple two 300,000 gallons a day you know everything size for 1.2 million so that everything's just the wrong size and so it takes the equipment takes be think beating anyway because it's just waste water which is tough to do is it less efficient if it's over everything yeah everything cost more down more that's more so this will so what we'll do watch that is probably have a couple small pumps because everything has to have abundancy too so there's probably three sets of pumps for every one function you know there's well guess only two eth pumps but there's three intermediate pump there's you know three Ras pumps so you know there's a lot of redundancy built in but what we'll do is we'll size uh get one pump for the actual flow and then we'll have swing pumps on vfd so you know if we really get you know Peak II Condition it's double the thing just turn on another pump um and then you know both pumps are running efficient in that case but 80% of the time it's only one pum it's the right size that's not you know running out on scar um so yeah um so you know it's it's probably going to be a 12-month design period and then we'll get to construction so this is you know this is one of those ones that you know you really have to do the maap do the engineering and then plan it so that things are coming offline you know there's no there's no second treatment plan we have to everything has to stay running while we construct the improvements that's that's why you know very delicate so does that mean that the bond payments that we approved are likely to not hit the tax rate until fiscal year 27 yes also that that one specifically because the waste water is not 100% % taxation I think 25 I'm not sure I forget which way go 25% 75% is scheduled in rate right yeah then you know just to keep it on everybody's mind you know 20 years from now we're looking at either a really big wall or moving plan so those are those are the big ticket items that Greg has on his you knowed Capital plan plan but we don't know we don't know I'm inor of the wall 20 20 years for the wall might also be able do that one stages like 10 years wall and then years after that do that's understood okay you could do a wall and protect the tunnel [Music] we always talk about the plant and the pipes going out to people's towns are we okay on the pipe that goes from the plant out to Misery we actually did an inspection this late this fall yeah yeah everything great some very healthy SE life was replaced I think replaced extended further was 25% that's that's something could be a big ticket if it was we I think we're have to inspect every three years and so we did this this year and uh that we good finding it on and off is not that's the hard part that's CT brought this one up so we are anxiously merely trying to get final permitting uh we think we'll have it on chapter 91's desk in week or so hopefully uh we we've already reached out to the chapter 91 people tell us coming that you know they need to give us as quick a turnaround as they can from there we have per that has you they need the chapter 181 sign off to approve the other perm the Army Corp the water quality so there know there everybody's got a permit for this c um so that that will be ongoing we're trying to get to bidding and spring you know at this point it's already the end of January I'm looking at you know best case scenario like spring you know March April opening day uh and then know theoretically if we can you know work with The Regulators on our timeline restrictions in terms of in the water work restrictions you know potentially we would still try and get to construction and fall and that's why I look at Pleasant Street needs to be paid in the spring because that's the main you know DET um you so that that's what's ping that but then everything else will come after that and then you we're still going to pay in the spring if the construction of the cul happens next you know fall of 26 um then so be it um you know that doesn't really impact any and any of our grants at risk if we delay too longine this the grants are at Red like right now you know the completion date written into the grants is I think 26 June of 26 yeah so if we're doing construction in Fall of 26 then that not good however we're hoping that you know regardless of if we're constructing it in fall or not if we have a Contractor on board we have an agreement with contractor blah blah blah it's much easier to extend the grant okay and therefore hopefully not be in jeopardy then if we are still waiting on permits you know in June of 26 we're going say you had your chance you could do anything sorry so yes they aren't but we're hoping our plan and our communication that's to where we need to speak question no I was just wondering if both engineering was working on that or you're comfortable with the progress of permanent so both is not on the color project that's time Bond both did the runda the other projects that are ongoing um and so we're happy with both um it's it's I say up up until six months ago I would say it was all on the regulator side now i' say it's you know more of a town issue but question uh what's the estimated elapse time that that Road's going to be closed when that engineering is finalized right so you know there there'll be some you know one lane you know alternating traic closures when we actually go to take out the road yeah you know whether it's 25 or 26 it'll be you know after Labor Day you say the contractor gets the road they have to have the road back open or really they have to have all their inwater work done by February of that so they have from you know September to February then they have to be out of water and then if so if that means the the Culver is now built and now they just need to get the roadway back open so that's from February to say May so the road will be back open by May so that's kind of like the timeline we're allowing September to answer John's question you're suggesting the road would be completely unaccessible from September to may may okay and then but that's you know so that's what we're allowing so that the contractor can price it accordingly and then we can allow them they can always do better and it's likely that if all their work is done in February and they have a window to you know get the roadway back built because then the cover's there they're just back filling and you know doing this and that and then they're and once they get to a certain level then it's okay I can open up this side of the road and it's that open yeah once once you get one one lane open that's right that's taller Y and so we'll we'll push but you know it's also we don't want to we don't want to push for the sake of pushing because you know we want the pavement to be placed when it's appropriate to pce play and not because of an aary deadline we set today you and so we'll you know we manage contractors but How We Do It um so you know we'll we'll try and encourage the quickest timeline possible obviously but we have to allow something to Bas on okay but that's September to may like in nine months potenti okay is there a general contractor that oversees this or or so the general contract will be the responsible party that are they they will be doing you know for this type of work they will be performing 90% of probably four or five that you would be sending RPS to right so it'll be a low B situation but you we'll we'll pre-qualify contractors they'll be this is a you know $7 million project it will be high-end contractors so we'll use dot prequal list so essentially any contractor that's qualified to work on a do project in the price range of this project um so you know that does you know narrow down and kind of weeds out a lot of the you know scrubs offering you know Financial incentives for them to get it done earlier Etc so School Street site development so you know this year's budget we had 250,000 for some site devel on the you know old compost corner of that water and school y um so the boring and Survey work is complete we expect the boring report next week uh they did hit some rock and some Boulders um which we expected it just matter where they hit it and what that does to you know Foundation designs um we might you know schedule some more Geotech if there's you know lingering questions you know we have it in the budget um we did I think we talked about this before but just we haven't we have talked you know at least to the select board about additional uh site layout for making it more of a public safety campus so we can possibly not just make it a DPW site but also police and fire uh you know what would the trade-offs be what would the you know be some Savings in terms of administrative space maybe or you know other things uh you know kind of synergies between the site you between the Departments um so they you know the short answer on that one is you know they they're going to give us some alternatives next couple weeks they they they have edited they have you know they put in pen to paper um to give us some some alternatives to chew on uh they'll also include some architectural uh components to that you know whether we're looking at more industrial stuff or more you know whatever the different architectural stuff on architect um so that's that's part of that um I think the my answer is we can certainly do it um I actually mentioned to planning board folks today but um you know the the restrictions on the LCD in terms of setbacks and you know how things are allowed to be developed uh are certainly not you know what this campus would be so we would need some relief on that which you know is certainly fair feelable I think but you know so it would take that we may Fe you know we haven't done the flagging out on the resource area you know there's Wetlands across the street so we're likely in buffers um you know there's a sale there so um you know whether or not those you know we're in the no build versus just the buffer you know it's got to make a difference but you know in general and then there's also compensatory areas on site where we could maybe do some hor training so there it's definitely doable um you know but it would significantly alter how looks driving out School Street it would significantly um you know alter the budget going forward um probably you know there'll be positives negatives and you know I think people in their situation need to know really have firm understanding of that and uh you know hopefully support it one way or another so that we can forward but and then below those things I just talk about is just kind of these were the long-term capital numbers that had been in the facility master plan I didn't know if we wanted to hit on any of those but you know I didn't change anything it's just kind of how we've been looking at the other facility Capital needs you know as we've been developing this site I'm surprised at the council aging number was my understanding that all Renovations were going to be paid through fundraising with no Town money yeah don't have a lot of details on okay the full mechanics of it U we have received uh the rfqs uh for the designer Services actually today uh so we got two responses so we'll be uh you know going through those and going through with an award to a designer but you I think those are some of the details we need to really flush out of you know what does this project look like correct those numbers definit the town grof the purchase on the basis there' be no more Town money that's so even for Design Services I don't know where you're going to get that money from yeah I was under the impression that we had uh $50,000 in hand now to do the award and then we were getting an additional 150 to uh continue the design I mean I'll have to have to talk to yeah 50,000 did come from somewhere I know Greg mentioned yeah I'm sure you guys are right my numbers are old and I just I kind of held them there just to make sure but confirm back on the School Street site so who's the engineering firm doing the feasibility on that but right now it's petch te yeah we will just like all the other projects we talked about we will have to go to RFQ when we get to actual design but they're doing the assessment so there is probably later in the deck but you there is$ 700,000 in the FY 26 budget to further hopefully at that point go to a actual engineering design but ever that money in that was a question what what percentage complete are we looking for 75 that be 660 well I mean it I think we have to wait to be fair we have to wait until we decide is it a public safety campus or not because that's you know several it's a DPW campus at this point right right so if that is then I say it's you know I wouldn't say it's 70 you know whole big 50% um 50% seems yeah probably it'll it'll be a very good Perman said great w I mean you know again these are just placeholder numbers but you know the based on the work that we've done today which includes the full facility master plan as well as a sighting analysis between School Street and Pleasant Street for a DPW facility you know based on you know a bunch of different parameters it was like $20 million conceptual design estim if say that $20 million project 10% goes to design that's 2 million we spent 250 this year I think just for a say discussion 650 is in next year's budget so that's all in 900k 900k is roughly half talking 20 million so that was what was in the report and you know I'll tell you guys the report's now a couple years old so all these numbers that we've been holding for a couple years couple years old the scope what we're getting again we we still need to do the design development to answer some of the harder questions which will you know certainly include price so you know that's still to be done we wouldn't expect it to be more than like the ess6 public safety building I don't think I know just finished their new DPW and you know their budget was 12 million and they blew that that be good case just back one slide um rotunda two to four million and I know that's heavy Grant is that also at risk and where is that in the process of the market uh so current cost estimates are around 2.7 uh you know with some contingencies in there um I believe we are pursuing the grant opportunities right now so I think SEC has a max Award of about a million um so we're still we're still looking out there looking for money for grant opportunities I know they're submitting to czm I believe um um to try to get some more and close the funding Gap um but we could be ready to go out to bid you know later this spring um summer again we're waiting on chapter 91 licensing uh permitting for that one so that's that's really the hold up um you know is there any grant money we already have awarded for that I don't believe so yeah I mean uh the design was funded through a grant yes um but I don't I don't know is that we have anything besides the SEC I do know there's um $300,000 request for CPC yeah okay that's there yeah whether it's for to make up for the grant shortfall or more incidental I'm not sure but there is some money in this year that fy2 I know in the discussions the expectation was virtually all of it could probably wind up with Grant right would this this would be considered priority over the like the um other Grant stuff would like the Morse pier and re Park I me I think they're optimistic that we you know will get you know given the kind of wide variety you know especially with Mo as being more uh commercially uh uh commercially uh focused you know it's kind of separate but uh you know my understanding is they you know are putting in for all of them you know with the hopes that you know we get those Awards um especially since they've already funded design and that's kind of their typical model where they fund design and then they'll fund construction is that what the 520,000 is there is that warer uh no so again that's a that's an old number that I just left in but that was for the harbard master office and I I'm not actually up to dat on what that I think I think it was know there's a lot so yeah that that number isn't in anybody's budget I don't think it's not not the official budget community center's that I know looking at floating one place numbers that I um so this is probably the kind of where we'll get into maybe some of the details on ju 26 but you know in terms of operating you know budget that I think we put in there to prevent you guys and invol but it's fairly I would say level budget um you know I think there were some pretty significant reductions and the operating stuff in certain areas that you know will hopefully offset some of the increases that we're going to see um so I know there's a question about salaries I think that's been explained but in general um you know all basically Union uh and then you know we have the OPM stuff uh that dat handling so that was a you know step for him uh the two bullets I have on here are kind of the kind of things that I'm waiting on that you know I have a placeholder that hopefully takes it into account but till I get the contract I know uh the disposal we so all of our curbside disposal goes to Wheeler and North Andover um that contract is up this year so FY 26 we start a new cont contract um I think based on this year's number we're we're at like 93 or $93 $73 a ton for roughly th000 tons a year um that number is probably going to go from 93 to over 100 so much more than two and a half 3% um I'm still waiting on that exact number when did you expect to get that uh I expected to get it two weeks ago but the guys been putting me on so we have another option well so the second bll there the per side proposal that's with our current vendor is Republic who was JRM uh their contract is officially up after f26 so we you know we're scheduled there uh they would love to renegotiate that contract because they're you know there a five-year contract that they're getting you know killed on based in today's dollars uh plus they took it over from JRM so JRM probably significantly less than you know their structure is now um regardless of if we go with Republic or not um the industry is looking to a more automated cide collection so one person in the truck driving but nobody on the back of the truck throwing bags so we would need to go to a cbase system um which you know so they would if even if we don't um you know rip up next year's contract with curbside uh and we just you know add five years or add 10 years beyond that stay with Republic they will give us that they'll offer us their best rate to not have to go through the bidding process and so you know we we'll evaluate I'm sure you guys will be involved but that that is not happen yet but that is in the works um and so as part of that they do have the ability to dispose of our trash they'll probably get railed out to Ohio or New Jersey or something like that but so they they could potentially be comp I don't know we'll see they pick it up but they truck it to North Andover right consider but did you're saying we might be able to negotiate it for they Tru it and deal it and we don't have separate contract with you know I will you know it's probably not going to be cheaper but it would walk Us in you know for whatever that term is um the the issue with you know we certainly don't want to give up north and over without being very comfortable with Republic um because if we don't our contract with hand over there is no me um there are no incinerators being built there are no landfill being opened um there is very few options for our disposal you it's not much of a negotiation that contract so if we were to leave we wheeler is it likely that we would not be able to use them again in the future exactly okay we would lose exp okay okay what what what are the chances of a new contract involving this automated pickup system so you know if we decide not to we stick with whe Breer we stick to the last year of our contract we will go out to bid again next year yes and we will offer you know it'll be Republic it'll be cassella it'll be uh Waste Management Capital way yeah whoever wants you know so they will you know be our curbside for usually it's 5 for TR uh and recycl but I'm talking about this one man for truck so anyway so the the industry is going that way Republic it may be on the beginning of that Trend but you can imagine most of their costs are in their labor and their their insurance and the the whole reason that Republic is going away for now is they had a person on the back of the truck get hit and you know fality Tex um so they're basically making company policy to eliminate that and probably to some extent probably makes them more competitive because they're you know get R the gall back in the truck but on the other hand they have to update their trucks all be the automated you knows and then somebody has to pay for the cart so whether they put that in the contract or we pay for separately the carts are not know that's A1 to $200,000 it as well what's the implication to the homeowner barrels and things to so that's I saying you know either either we bury it into our contract costs with the you know vendor or we buy them separately and hand them out or you know we make the resident responsible which that's not the way it work we'll provide it it'll just be you know part of our fee I would be very much against charging the reue residents for those bins well more importantly we're losing the revenue from buying the banks right so that's another factor is you know how you know we could still make it a pay as you throw and they do have a camera on the you know to kind of you know know if somebody is circumen the system but it's much more right to get you put one orange bag on top and the rest for TR collection but where is the line here for the cost you mentioned there's a placeholder but I've G through section foran and I'm not seeing the cost line for disposal sanitation provide it in my online we don't have online I mean I have the other thing I just don't have a tab but you know def it's about 400 probably what 400 to 100K a year for the disposal with wheeler it's about is 300 in the year for the curb side okay and then we have a disposal cost for the recycling Which is less than 100 60 70 grand a year and then we have a c for dumpsters like 20K a year and then we have separate line for disposal of the up at the transfer station okay as far as as trash we would recognize close to something coming out of the um about 500,000 cost and the revenue on that is that's actually it's more than 500 and the revenue it's about 300,000 in revenue from stickers yeah we're definitely not making we we never have I'm just curious what the Delta is if the Delta's getting um yeah so it's been a few years definitely since we've up the price for the orange bags and then I would say another element that I didn't have in my slides is I believe our contract up with was Zero the provider of the for B so nothing ever get cheaper so proba slightly different that's impacted by what you do with Republic right well if you go to the bar you're not going to have the arme BS right I mean we can it'll be future discussion we can keep them to try and keep the revenue so it's not a total hit on the budget but yeah you're right but just to get rid of the Plastics it be crazy you know but I would just say from a mechanical point of view for our committee pretty hard to vote on this budget not seeing the trash collection number significant so I give that number might P didn't make it into the report Som I don't see Andrea online Sarah revenue is 299,00 we that we just don't have the close to 500 plus do you know what account the number the I can show I have myp separate sanitation right it's definely there like in my report know in my actual PL report that's that's the line rubbish collection blah blah BL so 609 was fy2 so those are the two lines that you know kind of the Baseline Al includes our contct blacker but not free so that's that's where it is in my just kind of report so the number definitely exists I don't know why pick up the compost and giving them the rent for that property for free um so it's starts yeah so you're right it's not it didn't whatever reason it didn't make it into this I'm just I'm looking actually at the first two quarters of 24 which is half a year it's 240,000 so you double that you're basically coming up close to 500 that's the total cost well that's a St first two quarters of fiscal 2425 it's 239,000 for disposal expenses which I presume is Andrea's roll up for and so that yeah yeah so that's that's that the you can see the Inc numbers are different this is are quarterly you know detail report all budgets yeah yeah so the one I have on the screen that has well we do I'm wondering what else is so fy2 budget was 609 I certainly wouldn't have lowered itent it could be 100K number that I Bart for the disposal wheeler let's not discuss it do it's no good if we don't have the number question just on the um DPW Highway thing it looked like there's a Delta reduction in um miscellaneous maintenance and repairs from 78 to 55 and what's happening there I was not offering it was we will be managing that line very closely you have a lot yeah it always comes down to you know between that item and the vehicle repair maintenance line is the other kind of big one on that um yeah and and I will say you know we are replacing this in this year's capital budget replacing the front end motor when that goes down that's gone down a couple times in the last couple years it's 15,000 20,000 to repair on what what goes so the fact that it'll be new and under warranty know at less risk ofing the vehicle do we keep the old one for parts or do we sell to No it's it's part of the trade in so that that 250 number includes the trade in um the clerk of the works right that was a new position right and that was supposed to last for five years so were we able to get the person who we expect to work for only five years okay I'll say what um years ago I think we changed the tree policy in the town I think we can I'm curious what you think the impact has been I think it's been a couple years since that policy changed um I see this Budget moving right along but is it has this become a substantial greater burden because I think we expanded at what I believe to be Town trees yes um definitely greater burden um a lot of it falls on like Bo for being the Arbiters of the trees uh but I think we've kind of rain that in a little bit in terms of it's one or two meetings a year for tree hearing quarterly but there seem to be fewer trees per quarter right um know we certainly you know it's a tough one know we have a was I volunteer tree Warden who you know does a great job knows a lot about Tre more than I'll ever know but also was not a full-time employee so back and forth has to happen and now he's you know evaluating that many more trees um you know you know residents are reg nervous of so they want you want to know the liability and stuffff like that so we hav had any pre- failures that resulted in you know big big issues but you know it's definitely a push and a poll yeah it is it's have a greater burden is the selectboard consider revisiting that policy I think actually you whether the selectboard knows or not you know talked to Jody you know we've come to terms with you know the certain things that make sense in certain that don't make sense and we should you know it's a living document there's no reason we can't change it so she's I think looking at that okay revised about I'd say three years ago right was not very far and I'm I'm not sure how much it was revised or changed as opposed to just yeah yeah right I don't know what the changes were that might have increased our burden the specific depth from the street from the street the biggest thing from my perspective is uh and the the tree you know we wouldn't have known it when we were doing the tree policy but like other areas in the bylaws you know say parking it very specifically says on School Street you can park on this side for this distance in this area Pleasant Street Beach Street all of them are done we really needed to do the same thing on trees because I don't think that the intent of the tree policy was to own every tree on every road for 11 feet certainly on Pleasant Street we should on School Street we should but on Crooked Lane we should not like it's the forest forestry we should not so that's that's what I think needs to be bound the geographic locations of where the town that makes a lot of sense talked to a lot about this too you know she wants a more formal uh tree list and I think that's a great idea but we can't base it on the existing policy because we would own every tree in Manchester which is not so we're working together on I think very very good with the so that be a work in progress wall was like three years ago the number for the town was just astronom Asom yeah thing check at the radville cemetery is Walt's office is that used at all like do you have any plans for that looks pretty run down I a lot of plans for I plan on demoing it and making it more gr uh so we can we have to wait because we actually do use it like it houses some equipment and some other uh you know stuff Street lighting equipment yeah so we need the new DPW facility with the full storage that we don't currently have that's that's the plan to make that more great we're talking about Street lighting yeah I was just looking at Street lighting yes question on street so we have this again G's predecessor Mike Pratt would always talk about reserves and budget High come in low money trickles down into reserves I'm just looking at the budget we have here for Street lightings then um it seems like is is 30,000 a reasonable number for that given what we see from year to year and I guess the same thing goes on with the street life repairs are they getting better they kind of holding their own yeah so we've been uh you know the ones we're tackling right now are a lot of the uh direct bearing so the power is fed to the light with a wire that it's directly buried in you know the ground there's no conduit so when we have a break on those lines which is honestly like the ones we're dealing with right now very hard to pinpoint where the break is and then deal with the repair because we have to involve National Grid um so that's a honestly a lot of the the back and forth we we're having right now is just trying to get National Grid out so we can do the work um so it's a those will cost more to repair once we can repair them um and so that that's where I think the big the big number is um we have been uh doing quite a bit of change over on the uh posttop lights so those are the lights you know mainly in the village um a lot of them are definitely towards the end of their life cycle and looking pretty you know rugged uh you know between the the pole or the the light itself um so we've been doing kind some bulk purchases on other poles and lights um so we're kind of you know I buy a a batch essentially we do The Replacements and then I'll buy another batch so we're kind of into that cycle right now where I'm going to be buying another batch that will probably draw off another you know 15 to $20,000 you know of where we're at right now so I I fully expect by the end of this year we'll have you know fully expended that budget are we looking at um the cost of those lights that are in the downtown area versus lights that are elsewhere and the the relative costs yeah so the downtown lights uh we did get uh so we had a couple from accidents that were damaged so we replaced those we now have one spare headlight and one spare pole uh for the future those are by far the most expensive ones and there's 35 of them I believe um we don't use those anywhere else in town the other ones that are throughout the village are much more you know those are like $750 a pop versus the you know ones around Crosby so those were like I's say 5,000 is because they're custom made uh so 5,000 yeah even those are custom made you can't the pole yeah yeah with the PO yeah yeah you know that's a cast custom cast you know but if something breaks you got to replace the whole thing uh no we've replaced the just the pole and just the the head the light head so that's something we probably need to look at see if there's another option that's a lot of money I mean to be fair we've only you know those don't break very often uh so that's the first those are the first two Replacements we've had to get those AR a B I don't remember when it was but it was before so it was a while ago but it it hasn't been super long and I'm just don't I don't ever recall anybody explaining to us the difference in price of those fancy lights versus that was part yeah that was part of the dips phase one project and those were I believe a gift um from from a resident to purchase actual so actually part of I I was able we had some leftover money in that gift account still so for I was able to fund the replacement of those two of those partially with you know the remaining of that gift account un fortunately so the dip is talking about phase pH two right and it might be good for people to say to the dip we're not going with the Tiffany there should historically no and then that's what we're looking much more economical so you're looking into that yeah we for the dip space too we're looking at much more economical you know versions of those lights now the um I heard that that someone was people were getting mildly electrocuted up on masan Street like there was a I don't know I just heard that was yeah I mean direct baral yeah that's that's direct burial one so you know somehow the wire got  or whatever in ground and it just causes that short pets yeah yeah so it's I mean we we had a meeting with National Grid yesterday and they were you know kind of talking about their infrastructure in the towns and long term and they were L lamenting about how uh you know poor the INF the electrical infrastructure you know in town is and kind of re a Remnant from the original Manchester electric days that you know things weren't necessarily installed uh you know to today's standards by well National goodd has no records right right National goodd could not tell me where my electrical came to my house yeah they had no clue yeah and so that that's part of the issue when out trying to find you know a single wire down the street it's like you know where does it go uh so so was something being done about that yeah I mean we're working with National Grid it just takes time you know they were out the two days ago working on three lights that you know i' sent them work orders for back in October you know so it's like three month response time to get them to and they pay for that uh they yeah because they own the underground so that's Again part of the issue is we own the light they own the underground we're not allowed to touch the underground so it's just not the best setup practicality of working on it the $30,000 line item that's all just for power Street liting no that's Replacements and repairs and what's 25 and as well as new new yeah and what's so repairs might be the okay we just need to do aead or we just need to pay Manchester electric to go out and rewire something that you know was broken so 25,000 is minor repairers $30,000 replace yeah and also power or is that no that's under separate that's under Town yeah yeah so all of this is kind of ref so yeah when when we took over the lights from nation gri that was voluntary on our part correct was that not a good financial decision I don't know if I have enough of the back history hist because I came I started right after that yeah um knowing what we know today about our electrical system you know maybe not um you know we do that was basically when we converted to LEDs I believe that was part of the that's what we were led to believe was converting LEDs when offset any maintenance cost which which we do save a significant I think like you know our utility bill went down like 80% I believe yeah um you know from pre-existing so yeah so there's financial implications of that arrange Arrangement but there are operational service implications correct I think that's the question I'm interested in understanding is from an operation standpoint is it better for them to own the whole kitten Kaboodle or or does that not give us enough of a say and what what I would tend to think they would be more responsive uh to our requests if they own the light entirely versus us owning the light and then you know having to put a work order syst you know in through them you know it's we still have a say in what it looked like they weren't repairing them before I Wason say we we still be living with this reality that you know at the end of the day the lights aren't on yeah so operationally not much operationally for us yeah I mean well that's what I mean that you know are you wasting more time chasing them for what you're chasing them on now versus what you used to chase them for anything before they didn't do we weren't here yeah yeah we weren't here sounds like it was a different crew operationally and and it were different lights I think as a service to the town we can be much more responsive you know especially with the controls that we put in you know we are able to accommodate you know specific requests by residents you know if we you know if a light shines right into their you know bedroom window we can dim it for them which we you know yeah yeah if they did it it wouldn't be sign me up but and like the other thing when that hole that's prone to getting hit on Beach Street it's mid Block it's right it's right under a tree that obscrs 90% of it and I keep questioning did someone specifically request a light there it's it's not on a it's not a crosswalk it's not a well I mean there are some lights that are just you know mlight you but I I would consider that one would have been a good one to say yeah if if nobody wants it let's just leave if it's lighting up the sidewalk the sidewalks aren it's not a urban town it's more suburb you have a lit sidewalk at a street corner or a cross no that's not true I mean through downtown we light them all but I mean I don't think it's a new light like we didn't add it I think it's more just it was an existing light so we didn't take it away right so I think I think the um question is you know uh periodically I think you know the world around us changes so periodically it's a good idea to see you know do we need to have all the things we have now and if not just come forward and you know if you have some suggestions on how to improve the think might be we don't we don't hear from somebody until it's gone how could you understand but we don't have to keep everything we have and so it's just you know judgment I think Lighting on the sidewalks is very important and I can tell you on Bennett street it's lit and then you go through this black hole where there's no light right no I understand and I agree with you so you want lights on the sidewalks with all the ice on it but I so I I think um and I know we're going to talk snow removal in a minute here but I think it's just important to understand our inventory and our boundaries what do we decide to maintain and then to Sarah's Point let's do it well right but we we it's a little unclear we have lots of sidewalks that we don't plow that we don't like we have some that we do so it's just inconsistent and it's hard to make um communicate with the residents and to that point I think one that comes to mind is the street light by Crow Island another direct bearing that it lost power no clue where the feed comes from how to get it uh you know it's kind of a light just that's out in the middle of nowhere so we you know instead of trying to we we did attempt to locate it to repair it but at the end of the day the cost benefit right so we just took it out good good disccussion and did anybody complain uh oh yes yes operations but via you know based on the complaint complaint and any more questions on streetl um any questions on the highway just a question on rental I know it's a change is are we doing more I noticed that to be changing mildly significantly I think it's reent what are you looking at I'm looking at uh the highway budget I'm expenses at 55401 which is BU up from the bottom put materals and I was just curious what what's what's going you know why it went up so much yeah with rentals for sorry my mistakes not rentals it's equipment and materials oh um yeah I think it was just based on the prior Year's budget being overrun but um so you know we do new rentals for certain stuff um you know sometimes you have to rent a Flail Mower or you know like a skiter you know stuff like that we did that last year uh there's stuff in Crow Chapel where we have to uh CL up the uh the lights or the smoke detector something like that we had to rent a lift um so that's like that's the rental side of things and then other equipment that we end up buying this is kind of like the general you weers small push mowers stuff like that yeah I think if you look at the actual for 2024 it was 33,500 yep we're seeing a double though that's and we budget it in 256 and so now they brought it up to 30 and I just wondered if they would rental going on or you know there's definitely more rental but that's that's part of what I sort of a trend instead rent instead of own it what I if dve towards 23 to 24 yeah excuse me is anyone monitoring raised hand oh there's a raised I have not we're not taking comments from the public just yet but we will it's 8:30 see the board is still asking questions regarding the DPW budget um when we're through asking the questions we'll we'll take comments from the public oh thank you very much okay yeah I just wonder if there's a broader question here that in terms of R owner but that's that's all I was driving at and I'm just I'm sensing nothing dramatic but it's just no there were definitely a few extra equipment that we were renting that we would nor right okay um snow removal um Andrea did give me a spreadsheet of expenses going back to 2010 okay um the 24 expenditures were significantly less than years I mean last year we switched to doing a three-year average because that's what the state lets us do um but but the 2024 total was 70,000 2023 was 122,000 and 202 2 was 183,000 is it still realistic for us to use that three year average my we do I mean the theory behind the three years is um this is the only budget in which we can deficit spend and the state allows us to use the threeyear average I think you could take $20,000 off average you you get more like 125 140 are we allowed to use below the average no right so we can't yes we can we can take the average right yeah the threeyear average is lower than 145 I thought it was s on the no it is not she didn't change it no we just we start we start I think it's it's about the average so the way this translates is last year was $70,000 and he budgeted 160 so the Delta of roughly 100,000 goes into reserves which basically means that's money that's been collected from people but isn't and we're trying to we're trying to minimize that right I ask a question about scope um about what about scope I was I was wondering how much excuse me how much of this snow removal budget is um side bux um so that's I can't really answer that in terms of like you know it was $10,000 last week like I don't know that number we own a sidewalk tractor just one uh yeah well yeah we own one tractor we own one other pie of equipment that can do sidewalks okay um us other stuff um so that that's the equipment we have and you know like I was saying at the beginning um you the priority during the storm is always the RO right and then as soon as the storm is over whether it's it all kind of depends on when the storm is how you know intense and so on so forth but you know soon as the storm is over then we focus on the side with typically the one piece of equipment and we usually do send it out during the storm again it also depends on the dire so we had a discussion on this at the select board on Monday night I asked for us to have a discussion with you around sidewalks around not so much um I would like that not to be in the finance committee I'm just being I it's about scope and how he's budgeting against the scope so that's why I asked the question and so um if you can look into that yeah so I mean the I've never touched this budget like our storm response is kind of a standard operating procedure and then what I think that we're talking about now is if if we want to lower because we haven't really been seeing as much use that's why I'm asking the question we we made the decision last year to base it on threeyear average understand and I'm trying to adjust this to the threeyear average it would be 125,000 instead of 145 and it doesn't have anything to do with the actual expenses it's what the state allows us to do understand I I have a question uh are the reserves if if you're under budget it goes into a reserve is that a reserve for snow removal or is that General General because I'm looking last few years piled up a bunch of money yeah that's right Contin that's why we have adjusted the way we look at project revenues and expenses so that we're not taxing people money that goes into the they should keep it that's why we were we were sending a lot of money over a million oh really at the end of the year into reserves until the last couple years when we tightened it up and then it's been like 3 or 400,000 at the end of the year except for I think 25 was tighter but um I think that's the theme going through this whole budget is you know when you look at Revenue are we over projecting are we under projecting revenues and are we over projecting costs and the answer to the end is you never want to run out of money as a municipality but at the same time you don't want to finish the year putting right $1.2 million of taxpayer money into reserves and just keep doing that um but I think snow is one of these areas where as much as the town can we should budget low and if we have a tough year we have the last two weeks of the fiscal year we can move stuff around and we also have our fincom reserves so there's there's there's tools here to deal with exceptional years but just loading up this expense pay for it the next J yeah that's right I think we've done that once right might just mention that I totally agree with the snow budget and that's you know $20,000 it's not changing your operation this is more of a money thing age but on the on the money side I do think that we under I can't remember how you phrased it just now but that we um you know are we over projecting our cost overestimating us or our cost my answer is no we we're budgeting to a number but I think as I showed earlier in this there is a backlog that we are ignoring so like I would say I agree Let's Not Over let's right budget all the operating and everything the backlog of capital is a and I don't feel like it's where you don't need to overestimate the snow budget just for the sake of overestimating it but there is a place for that money to be spent but we don't we're not going to work that way we're not gonna budget extra online items to make it available I agree I absolutely agree but I'm saying I don't think that it's because I don't think the tax money is going back to the taxpayer necessarily I mean that's great but we also a very big backlog of work that needs to be done let's go Ral right now okay we're not talking about Capital now we're talking about operating and does anybody have questions on the DPW facilities operating I have one okay I'm gonna say the word Capital you're going to screaming we carry $50,000 we're proposed to in upgrades of buildings why is in the operating budget I I don't know why that sits in capital and is not in the operating budget that's my question General Building upgrades yes and I understand that same like like furnace Replacements I don't know you know what are General Building upgrades but I if they're predictable enough to put them in the capital budget I would think they just be we have to maintain buildings and that should I'm just talking about location here that's all yeah it's done by tax so I just wonder why what what is you what are what's the line General Building upgrade us to in cap I think it's just the catchall for everything that we encounter throughout the year at you know anything that goes wrong in there are buildings that we need to call a contractor into repair I wouldn't necessarily call that Capital because it's not a planned expense it's something like boil your house fails like you know you hope you have a a little kitty that you can draw on so you know that I think the same principle here is that it's really just than the operating budget I mean I'm still happen yeah that's all I'm suggested should okay it's part of operations any other questions on the operating budget here just um what the athletic field maintenance didn't we just replace the so that would be Sweeney part so Sweeney and pine um so you know that is you know because we have upgraded them you know they do require to have a you know with the amount of use those fields get um we really need to focus on you know ating them uh fertilizing them making sure that uh they're mode and all the overseed every year to ensure that you know the grass is still growing uh with all through all the wear and tear um you know so when you get nicer Fields just making sure that they stay nice fields for our continued use I'm pretty sure actually also Cheryl doesn't have a budget for that stuff so some very small portion of that budget goes towards you know striping the fields and mowing but we mow them you know sometimes we'll pay contract more but sometimes we do it's more like I say when striking for a game like you know we need to paint the line or something like that's a different you know CH people do that or just like you know try the infield that you know Lally stuff like that also I think there's like the Cen that swee you know need to new whatever bu or something you know stuff like that anybody have any more questions on the gpw operating budget I don't think we can vote on it tonight because I don't think we have all the information um then I will take comments from the public with respect to DPW operating budget if people somebody wants to raise their hand Sarah would you take down the presentation the PowerPoint so we can see you better thank you have one more slle questions did Brenda have a question go ahead Brenda um apologies it's Chuck um 19 Ocean Street uh with respect to the streetlight question um I wrote to uh Mr Dam earlier in the week about the street three street lights that don't work on Ocean Street so I was a bit surprised uh to hear his REM marks uh about that tonight and I wonder if he could expand upon that um so is this is this Mr furong it is okay I just wanted to make sure that so the the one we discussed tonight was the one at C Island that one's been removed as Nate said there's one at the bottom of uh you know as you're driving down Ocean Street on the white beach side uh that's actually a brand new light so we were surprised when when you reported that that it was it was out we'll we'll we'll check it it might be another underground issue but it was working and so we're we're working on the spot there not sure what the third one is if it was further up towards Ocean or I mean towards summer or a different one the light opposite Mrs Nelson's home is out and has been out for six months that's a brand new light so I'm I was surprised that that one we we're investigating but it it was replaced so it should it should work well it isn't and the light off Crow Island a car took that out six months ago and hasn't been replaced so there's three lights out of seven that don't work so I was just curious what your plan is I don't I'm not sure I can answer that the I only I only understand two of them so far what's the third one well I don't know which one you don't understand one a crow Island we removed the one at Mrs Nelson's has been replaced and apparently doesn't work but we'll we'll figure it out what's the third one there was one on the east side opposite uh sharksmouth that was not working two days ago that's a one of the tall lights that appears to be part of the uh the system that's run by National Grid so we run all of them so it's it's definitely us but I I'll have to look into that one I I wasn't aware that it was out but we'll look into it okay well I I did write to you about that earlier in the week so um the uh the other thing that I find interesting um if I may is it's unclear to me what you're thinking about doing about um recycle trash Etc and if you could bring just very briefly some clarity to what you're thinking we might be doing in the next budget year I think citizens would appreciate that thank you so much sure um so I think we discussed it but so we have an existed contract for curbside with Republic there's one year left on that contract which would cover all of FY 26 uh at a very minimum and next year we will rebid that contract uh and we will entertain new vendors uh and we will evaluate them based on price as well as other things it is likely that that contract will have to include uh automated pickup which means that the there's one driver who drives up to the you know to your driveway you have put out a cart and there's an arm on the truck that will swing the cart into the truck and put the cart back down that's that's the automated system uh they'll there'll be one truck for trash and one for recycling like there's now uh and we will have to either have the contract include or the town will have to purchase cards to distribute to all the residents they want to participate in KK we may or may not continue the pay you throw process as part of that and secondary to this is we have to bring the trash somewhere right now we currently do it with wheelator which is the incinerator in North Andover they our contract is up with them this fiscal year so starting FY 26 we'll have a new contract number in place and unfortunately I haven't got that number yet but I have a budgetary number in this year's budget um and there's potential other Alternatives but not many and they're not cheap for the disposal anything else we need to know that answer your question Mr furong it does um one just point of uh information for me that was a you've concluded your discussions on the operating budget does that imply you're about to have a discussion of the capital budget yes thank you so much I look forward to it thanks okay well I guess we before the capital we have the Enterprise funds numbers are 76 thank you they're right before the deck it's the last section anything notable in the super budget off my memory believe it's pretty standard the electricity line the actual yeah was 7,624 budgeted 125 you requested 126 and the budget is 90,000 why is that so much higher than the actual 24 so you recall we had an issue with the solar credits versus the um generation charges with National Grid and was something all S I think was the the generation from solar farm so anyway I I don't know Andrew and Greg handle that end of the okay budget and I would just say um been moving Target over the last couple years but I know for a fact that electricity rates have not gone down ask and the requested for the further down yeah I'm confused about what's going on there so requested 25 of 16 spending the prior year was 185 bus now budgeting 185 but you you only request 165 what do I misunderstand is now budgeted 185 why what it higher than it requested understand it seems I think the note on the on the margin is is you know like a carryover note that never got deleted maybe it should budet um the request is the request the distribution materials that's the you know where we kind of pick up the um maintenance in the system so yeah it's not necessarily a fixed number every year but it's something that you know we do encounter I think it was more B you my budget request was more based on the y 24 actually which was almost exactly 185 okay I mean is that the lining of the sewer pipes no no distribution materials I mean because it's it's all over the place been 27,000 23 it was 185 and 24 right so 185 doesn't seem online yeah so I think I think that's one where we're just trying to you know line by line I try and look at them you know individually and then I'm also held to a bottom line so I'm just trying to make it all work so we should think 185 is the amount we should be dealing with not 165 right yeah I'm not I think that disregard thep yeah just a question about is it your team that's running the sewer um plant or you have special people with per or those are Town employee contract guys all of them it's the water treat plan where we contracts and um people's permitting and training and all that stuff sound for the next couple years all actually the operator the part of the works that we hire actually has all the lies or actually have a little bit ofu yeah and he has been you because we're not in full swing on all the other projects you know he's been doing a fair amount of the you know Street lining operation any more question on enterprise Enterprise water uh not for so that one were I think we're allowed two threeyear renewals and I think we're in the first year of the second R and at one point we talked about bringing that in house right so that's I mean something you would look at whenever that contract yeah I know the perit the training was an issue that's very specialized skill therec our guys you know wks in the highway to get their licenses so that we have that potential but anybody have any more questions on the Enterprise water that takes us to C I'm not going to vote on anything for DPW until these numbers are straightened out because one that on the water it's nice to see that indirect cost with the p group all that that like helps the loaded number like we should do that well the reason it's done here is because there's a transfer um from the the Enterprise function this nice to see right discussed at times whether hearts and Rex is a category for this and even the harbor and because they're so close on Revenue said no it's better to keep flexible and not have the right was they're so close I'm not know what that means in that context so the Enterprise funds for sewer and water are usually always net POS I understand that works for the town's benefit but when something is not net positive like it runs at a loss you so close me they are slightly negative thank you there times where they come up and they look profitable and they be advantage to being Enterprise funded then like a year later they're not well I think the difference is because Water and Sewer sets its rates y right to the Enterprise fund expenses you don't have that in parks and recer I just know what the expression close Okay DBW capital I think we've talked about Road res resurfacing enough I do have a question I know we've talked about really taking your long-term view 500,000 I'm not asking this increase but I'm I'm just when you do that longer look 10 million 20 years so just so we're we're not spending at the level at least that you project for the longer term right so we'll make note of that the fact that they say they need 500k okay when we Circle back around and do the final capital okay okay that's a budget number looking at a 20 year horiz like from year to year yeah but the Run rate is I you if about that and I just want to not it it's noted got it drainage sidewalk improvements what's this number based on uh so like I said that's again you know we're going have to Street sidewalk um so then we actually do have some drainage on Pleasant Street that needs to be done on more pav um so that's you know probably the bulk of that this is also where we pay for ms4 compliance which is the drainage permit that we have so there's a fair amount of work that we do every year cat Bas cleaning street sweeping um that's that's that comes out of that line yeah I mean it's 15,000 that's why the sidewalks aren't impr well I mean sidewalks are keeping up there's always GNA be more work to do fair but I think we to me it's the Run rate you know if it takes us that near year we should that's should be as being operating cost right maybe it's here because it's a big line yeah that's just the way it's yeah main to be operating age it's a lot of little stuff that goes but know I think you know the problem you know that I've seen you know there's certain areas where things get moved like that from year to year especially big numbers it changes the percentages and then you know you spend more time explaining the percentages you know I've heard Kathy say before you know it looks like the know operating budget went up you know 10% last year and we you know why is that it's like well maybe something maybe you know the union contracts were more than typical two and half% stuff like that so you there's always a reason but you know I think that's one of the reasons why something like this gets put somewhere and end up just staying there because it doesn't rock the boat on the other percentages that you see we just want the operating budget to be realistic yeah and if it's in capital it's not that's kind of where we're coming from ppw facility I think my question on that one I'm sorry EXC me that upgrades excuse me not facilities sorry I Mis wrot the line I know you're on facilities and and that's 100% for the design work of the facility up to uh 50% or a certain percentage and then taxations 2,660 I thought we weren't doing no we're going to talk about the funding separately okay yes okay so but that's like for about 50% of the um I think we've already said we think the General Building upgrade should should be in operator yes I have no further comment um what's driving the Ocean Street study is something can you remind me about the ocean Street study I'm sorry I don't remember what yes that came up at a select board meeting because we did not get the grant that we had hoped to to do the study to figure out what the heck we're going to do with Ocean Street so that's our second or third attempt at a grant at at some point we have to figure out what we're going to do with Ocean Street so I think the question is is $100,000 the right amount do you think that's low or high yeah it's yeah so we've gotten a couple different numbers from couple different Consultants on that uh so you know there's kind of the the budget which we went for the grant for which included a lot more um of a process a public uh process with uh you know doing design charettes and you know just a different level of design um the other question we had you know we really need the engineering happen uh and so that 100,000 cover the engineering which will be the the modeling of the you know inundation models the you know sea level rise models all that and then applying that to the you know the conditions of the road you know existing CTS and you know resource areas and stuff like that so that's what that number covers so this is really an ocean Street engineering study so the just I'm not sure I understand what you said I just I could ask a clarifying question the the thought process here is we need to come up with some set of options that we can discuss with residents kind like we did with the rot Tunda but we don't have to have you know fancy visuals and you know so will this $100,000 get us options that we can have a good discussion with the residents yes yes okay part of that is the on bu yes yes I mean that's a lot of technical detail you guys are the experts I'm just saying conversation with this will give you the preliminary design okay you might you know we'll definitely get into um the from to Z so like there's going to be interim steps interim things that will kind evaluate that um now can we go back to your last page on your presentation on the vehicle St should be able get back in did you leave soon no I'm still here I'm find the share button dadig a second sure bit better yeah I I can make it Zoom it on my screen if you need I guess the you know um you know in terms of isar budget I think we're getting the front end loader and we're getting the um replacement pickup um the front end loader um went down from the original ass from 300 to 250 that so that includes the trade in and the number is actually cheaper than I thought so you know we feel like we did okay there um so that's 250 replacement that's you know front front end piece of equipment that we use a l and how old is it um 2008 so 17 years so that that's very good I I heard I don't know if this a true because I was around but I I heard that was a used so very good on that but like I said the last few years we we've spent probably 50,000 tomorrow on um now vehic yeah so you want to replace a pickup truck Y how many pickup trucks do you have how many people do you have I want to understand all of your little things that are driven how many people you have and whether there's any equipment that is size such you need special qualifications to drive it and if so how many people are qualified and how many are there so I think we only have one piece of equipment like dump truck that's big enough to require no take back two we have the Peter belt and the new fre line uh that requ y rcdl Jason Frank do CH I think we have four people that can drive those two trucks um we have I actually have been talking to the guys so we have those four plus one two three four more in the department the on the highway side that don't have the license to be able to drive those but um we have been talking to the guys about well you know they they might want to get those license they're very expensive time consuming so I can't all them get them and you know we need to have some sort of pre a place where you know they don't just get that CDL and then go drive for tra company um so that you know that's in the works um so that you know one two of those guys are probably going to retire in the next few years so you know we want to be able to you know back that but um so there's only two um then we we also have three guys in the water department I would say two of them could potentially you know someday operate them like you know and that would be to the to benefit in terms of you know St PL stuff like that just you know have more people capable um so that's you know 10 overall out of 12 guys that you know in the department and in that kind of Realm um then we have have the and motor we have a un contract designated equipment operator he's typically the but most of the guys have the required licenser to you know also drive those operate them and how old tobacco that was last year that's okay that's I thought we bought something recently and that's a frontend piece of equipment that we we don't you know have a backup so you know we want to keep those good check um you know when they when they go down we get that fixed immediately so you I'm saying so like we have seven pickups including the 88 including the water department I think it's more like 10 we this schle well I I wasn't counting like the DPW the director pick up out back there's one one that's at the uh sewer plant usually so like there's not coun all those and so some of those on the list they're you know refer to as a 350 or 550 some some some of those have dump bodies some have utility bodies so they're not rolling equipment when you take this page right if you take the weighted average of how long they last it probably runs us about 225 a year just in where just if you took the rolling some last 15 years some last seven years you really you're looking at about 225 just looking at every year rep F I know we don't want to do a replacement fund but that's that's what you look at when you're looking at the values how many of these you said there's 12 total 12 people well so dep on how matter I'm only having 12 in the highway and water department then there's you know there's being name this guy the sewer department uh you know the sewer department doesn't need a dedicated truck all the time but they do need a truck so you know we share it within the department stuff like that so you want thr five including Works chck does this account for the fact that once we get the new water meters in we won't have to have people driving around to get the measurements well you know so that piece of that truck only the only part that makes it special for meter reading is it you know we have a laptop that we put I mean but if it I don't know how much time they spend driving around to read the water meters but that's a task that will no longer exist after we get I'm sorry I would like to First understand how much equipment there is how many people there are to drive it and how many pieces of equipment are used every day I want to get down to the basics before we start talking about yeah so I mean think I'm answer it so you know we have 12 I think we have 12 guys in the highway and Sewer yep Highway and water Highway and water sorry yep five more at the sewer yep me in the office um that's it um obviously I'm not count office staff they're Nots you know so generally send share of the F-150 um you know sometimes you know the guys at the sewer plant do need to you know bring lab samples and stuff to different labs and you know go pick stuff up and you know they need to make a grit run with the grit so you know they'll use the pickup for the um you know for the lab stuff they'll use dump truck from the highway guys for the grit run um you know there could be there are times where weing piece of equip go down there because we're dropping in a pump or we're redoing the bio filter so we need you know need those pieces of equipment um you know the the larger dump trucks uh we use those when we're you know doing warming brakes obviously when we're doing sanding flowing uh that kind of stuff we do the beach cleaning you know we have our equipment on site the bigger trucks um the smaller dumps are for you know we're going to loom something that get duck up at the cemeter or you know we have a mini excavator that was only you know probably five or six years old now at this point that's used for some of those smaller jobs you know different Graves um so you know we have a FL attachment for that you know choing back the um vegetation on the side of the road so you know open up the view um anything else miss you guys want to know I I I still don't understand how many pieces of Truck Equipment I'm not talking about things attached right so how many of these trucks are being used every single day and how many are sitting in the lot because when I walk by DPW there's lots of vehicles in the lot so almost every day yeah almost all of the equipment is used the bigger piece of equipment are used for the days that we have you know those tests so play Beach uh Tak a grave um material from watermain brakes are going to pick up uh material from the yard so you know we have a stock pile of crush Stone and that's the 550s or something else no those are those are the bigger ones what's bigger the Feer belts the freight liners only okay only one of the freight liners needs a bigger license okay so there's two big ones that are used as needed right so I say those don't necessarily get used every day yeah but we definitely need them big ticket items um if we did not have them it would inhibit our operations um often but it's all these other trucks right and so those are used almost every day um you know in the summertime we use a lot more of the pickup trucks uh you know the the F350s whether it's the um know the dump bodies or the utility bodies to pull around the equipment for WS yeah so you know they in the in the summertime we definitely have a deficit of trucks but you know we make it work because usually it's two guys to a truck going to M the one um not everybody needs to the mother but yeah they all get used so what are you replacing well this is most to c one what 3 150 350 450 550 it doesn't say 350 pick up and it'sing 350 pick 8,000 so all these are taken off the state bid State bid went crazy this is the first time we've really been kind of those smaller the last few years we repl and the big and one of the small this here reping ER trucks uh and the price went from like 60 Grand is usually what we were carrying to 90 it's all like detail Tru would 90 be enough to use for that line or do you want to keep it at 120 cas no we change to 90 great told us it was Chang it was already changed originally my original budget before we had got the revised quotes from State bid was I thought I was going to replace two 350s and they were both for 60 Grand the pricing came back for you know the 350 was 90 if I wanted a 550 it was like 110 so I just said okay we'll just take one and we'll and it's 90 so it's like honestly we save 30 Grand at the budget but I'm only get one veh on site too um do you have any opportunities for getting electric vehicles for the highway department right so we we started to look at that a lot more seriously I think the first one and this is a couple years down in the fleet plan was to replace and it's not really replacing it's ping the electric or the F-150 giving it to the mechanic who does need to make runs to get you know mechanic stuff because he's using an old handing out police cruiser Explorer so we would get rid of that you'd take the F-150 uh and then we'd get DPW director uh La pick up because that be the easiest way to transition the department to Elric yeah yeah he does it then the guys w we do it there there's not a lot of good op you know there's there's options out there right now for like the 150 size range pickups but once you get above that there's really not a lot of good options then you have to get into the electrical infrastructure that you would need which we would basically have to redo all the electric at DPW to support the types of chargers we would need um you know to support an electrified Fleet are you going to be looking at adding solar to the DPW oh yeah right so both e charging as well as you know just a higher form of electric service and the more efficient stuff like geothermal as well as solar at the new site is is part of the plan we'll have to see where all that fits when we get to that level of design go ahead just a question um on the number of trucks my question was since how the truck that does go around and and and reads the meters how many hours a day is that truck being used for that purpose and basically once those that meter reading goes away would you need one less truck a half you know can you do with one less vehicle because that that Tas isn't being done anym that's really my question my initial reaction is probably not because we only read meters once a week every quarter okay that's what yeah so it's not every day that they're going F that Tas and so like that's why we don't have like if if that were the case we might have a dedicated truck but it wouldn't be an F350 it would be be an Explorer something something much more efficient yeah it' be the electric yeah yeah but we yeah we're we're not going to be going in that direction we're not going to need anybody have question sewer as well the sewer at the bottom the bottom okay but I just have I have a comment the vehicles or just second as as we go into the years where we have a lot of I think bonding on large project I think we really need to keep our eyes on the fact that it really runs about 250 or 225 to keep the rolling stop going I it can get lost in all those very big numbers that we're going to be placed with like that's a comment not a question okay because I've done the mathematics that's what I'm trying to get at okay yeah we get a copy of this believe that was I'll for this I'll for it all but yeah we Haven receive them you send this to me because I have the fleet list has it but I've never seen that yeah yeah I mean said it to me so I know I said right but it's all you it I don't think so okay you're a special oh wow I am it might have been one of the things you yeah what I didn't see and the question I had was the um plant upgrades for sure when we haven't done the big upgrade yet is this like so you know that that number is actually built into the rate so before the big you know Bond project we were kind of doing a you know General three to $500,000 a year that's built into the ring already and it was going towards you know larger thing because you we had a lot of things that break um and so that that was just the catch off for the kind of unforeseen Capital that we're going to need um so I would I would prefer to keep it there because um you know it's in the budget but it's also going to help us you know as we progress through this design and things get left behind or you know kept in you know from year to year that's that's where that's going to come from right unless we want to go back to you know another Bond or something like that right away but like I just think it makes sense to leave it for now but this is a this is capital and not maintenance type stuff well I mean it's it's not not a reg expend it's not keep lights on it's yeah won't go so far as to say it's a new generator yet but it might turn into a new generator but if we needed belief on this $3.2 million Capital total that might be one Cas that we could look at because we're already doing something it will absolutely go into that but it won't doubt it will be to make that 3.2 number 2.9 to make that 3.2 number 3.5 right right so last year did you have the 200,000 and did you spend it last year on Capital St I mean so we we actually had been the approach had been up until last year with W over the last 5 years before that was to you know the 300 number was supposed to you know turn into over 4 5 years 1.2 1.5 the problem was we were spending it without actually getting a $ 1.5 million project so 1.5 turned into three and yeah right that's that's what so we'll get before we do the capital I'll ask Andrea to have all of the capital projects and what's been spent and what hasn't that good okay so that we'll not we'll be able to figure out she gave it to us a while ago right um I think it was last spring we really should have it as at the end of 24 does anybody um on Zoom have any questions with respect to DPW Capital don't see any e going in the right direction I want to be backward uh anything else on DPW you okay thank you dismissed thank you dismissed thank you all we're not going to discuss communication plan tonight because it's 9:30 you haven't heard anything from Andy I'm here did you have any questions I had a couple but I think they mostly got answered along the way I forgot about you I'm sorry I'm not offended on know well have be going back over everything anyway um you want me to send you the slid any other question and I'll send yes please have yeah anything else let me down okay thanks um did people have a chance to look at the minutes they good yes dat we want to we only have the ones from this past week finalized and post right so I believe that we are approving the minutes from January 15 correct we adopt the minutes January 15 do I have a second second more seconds any discussion was something about I want to um the police overtime how it went down because it went a lot of that salary went to the training line and I question whether that was going to be um the CPA before the Cy if they have training versus salaries um very salary training that's appropriate I don't know that has nothing to do with minutes well I I asked that it wasn't in here but I don't know we need to not that important okay are we ready to vote Dean uh up Peter yes yes Andy yes Sarah W yes um our next meeting is on January 29th um and it will be the schools the school district came back and said they wanted to stick with the 29th so it should be it will still be a preliminary budget I don't know where they are in their budget process but they will be here um and then and we'll also look at if we have numbers new numbers on the vote Tech we'll look at that budget Soo and will we receive anything other than send this book before that meeting I will check and I think our request was that we were just meet Town Manchester with school correct put as much as 17 million in school this year but Essex isn't going to match that with the POR so I don't think we're dealing with essics okay sep yeah I think that the the purpose of this meeting with the school district is to understand how they're coming up with their budget and for us to raise any concerns we might have regarding the level of the budget right um it's it's really not our responsibility to delve into the details a lot um because the school committee does that but it is our responsibility to raise a red flag if if we feel the budget's not appropriate or if for instance they don't have final numbers for health insurance and what they're going to do if the final numbers coming lower how that money will when they report it all on the essic building that is being considered I know they have the operating budget I think that's what you were just commenting operating in capital so they will the school the building but we can ask we certainly can ask about it sure yeah $660,000 study it's coming I I'm sure that that's will have information that we we certainly can ask um we can ask it okay that was in the scure to do here anything to do with the Regional School District yeah this is our this is our only opportunity this year to meet with them so we need to get all our questions asked and raise any concerns we we may have and you know we still have opportunity to have input into their budget because it might be fine yeah we we were going to talk about library in town government next week we that out to February 12 so fire is on February 5th and the 12th now will be library in town which is where it was originally so bre suggested last week that maybe we REM moove it so 25 is fire 212 was library in town 219 is CPC last good and Andrea confirmed today that that Dan Sherman and the Auditors can meet on 35 they'll be remote okay it see was the 19 yeah and 227 is capital and we're obviously going to have to Circle back around on DPW we get I'm gonna ask yeah that's what Peter asked it's like what questions are we going to have you know we have the original one with okay well I do yeah I I pulled it down from the school website um they have a section on budget yeah okay okay and I put this was the one that came out in December right um I don't think they put anything up there but I think they've done work yeah so I'll have to see if I'll ask Pam if she has updated numbers to meet when she meets you know to share yeah I didn't see I looked before we had the joint meeting I didn't see anything did since then they came out with I think a preliminarily 8% increase 9.8 yeah so I haven't seen that one okay part that's a placeholder on Healthcare chage yeah good and that was really before the school committee had worked on it yes okay so they started yeah anything else people want to ra R wasn't here tonight is he okay yeah he has um he was hoping to join in but I he western part of the state or something at he's all weak at some conference I think that they had something tonight he said he couldn't make it and he would try to just ask one question so so we look at a budget that's got an expense that's greater than the revenue of the prior we can assume that battle get adjusted so it covered there words you look at sewer the budget that we looked at the sewer is slightly larger but a small percentage than the revenue was last year so that adjustment will be made by the selectman will do that new rates okay so that just get I believe we don't have to do something now I believe they approved the rates no they approve them before that but it's it's it's once they know what the budget is yes I think that's when they improve the rates and we're not that's not something we need to be talking about no I think the state also gets to certified oh one yeah yeah so towns don't say you know last year we charged you $14 per cubic yard this year we're going to go to $200 and generally the town I mean the town has close to 2 million in reserve in the I say we need to be talking about that and no no for various reasons you pointed out yeah and I did receive from Andrea today um 10y year history on revenues for all the accounts so I'm going to kind of take a look at it and what I'm kind of leaning towards is maybe saying 95% of a two year average or threee average instead of just the pr you know we're talking about no I don't take a second on this what is the mystery or magic of Enterprise oh so the Enterprise funds for water and sewer is they collect the water and sewer rates and put them into an Enterprise fund separate from the general fund okay and so yeah and then the the people are who work there at paid by the town okay and their benefits are paid by the town so in the Enterprise budgets we carry those salaries and those benefits and then a transfer is done from the Enterprise fund to the general fund at the end of the year to reimburse the town for all of those expenses okay yeah and and that includ insurance and all that why why do Enterprise at all so I think as I understand part of it is you can absorb gains and handle differently than the rest of the whole municipality which may run into loss I see okay it um the income is to some degree discretionary because people can choose to use less water or not yeah sewer is automatically function of how much water you use y CH this be used more water than sewer here's cou but it's more of an accounting so so we can carry a surplus in the Enterprise fund yes that doesn't require really Town appropriation whereas if we have a surplus in the municipal government it has to go into free cash at the end of the year okay and then we have just so we can build up a reserve in the edri from the town Reserve right so that if they miscalculate the fees they have a pot to pull expenses from yeah in the Enterprise fund and and when I looked a couple years ago when I looked at all of the reserves the Enterprise funds had like between two and three million they've used some of them um yeah so that was part of her answer to me a moment ago when I asked about whether we do they have the flexibility of having reserves okay so so that there's it's spending the money is much more flexible than and when we do our budgets the numbers we appro whatever the town meeting approves for the groupings of expenses can't expend outside that we can't spend more than that we can only move things around in the underlying line item so and that's why we have a finance committee Reserve fund is if somebody's going to spend more than was appropriated they can come to the to the finance committee okay the classic one is overtime the classic one is overtime Public Safety that's the place we have that's why Dean asked the question he did because overtime well I think it's almost uncontrollable as far as I can figure out well they always low no J that actually calculated worked it out yeah this year it looks very good yeah in let me correct I one more little pbit on Enterprise funds so when you look at the capital budget and what goes before the town it will talk about funding sources and a lot of times it may say general fund and then it'll probably say Enterprise fund okay so a certain amount of Road well certain amount of pipes for sewer and pipes for water get tied into the Enterprise fund so it's like it's own little entity over here contributing to so it's being paid from fees rather than general tax rate yeah um and so then the other thing we were talking about is the revenues because we're trying to establish a formula to be used every year um for Andrea to project the revenues because we've had issues where in the past we felt that the revenues were being under right under projected which was leaving excess money in the budget to be spent and more money going into free cash at the end of the year so the tax rate was higher than it needed and they didn't want that because the taxes are too high we're trying to be efficient but I think part of it so for example like receipts a large part of receipts are excise taxes on vehicles you know the town is not scrapping its entire personal vehicle Fleet every year it's fairly predictable right certain number of people buy new cars and certain people tell but we were finding that the receipts were sort of estimating like well you know we're not going to see many new vehicles so the receipt number was way down and then at the then at the next year it was suddenly like we had a lot of Revenue coming in from receipts and then the opposite happens on the expense end you know it's like well we think we're going to have to replace this this and this this and this and then at the end of the year it's like well actually we got by with everything so we don't need to spend it so between those two okay budgeting errors we end up with a lot of in a commercial Enterprise you call it net income for tax people you call it basically reserves we about 16% of our operating budget which we decided was too high we don't pay dividends correct and we've already taxed people for that money that's the real and and our job is to be responsible yeah we adopted a mission or statement a couple of years ago saying that we want the tax rate to reflect current expenses and not have a whole bunch of Reserve funds accumulating money that's going to be spent later which is what Essex does they have all sorts of we do have the public the fire um vehicle replacement okay fund um sort of like a depreciation fund or yeah and he he gave us um he gave us a very good um forecast of his his Replacements and his exactly how long each app we ran into a problem that we were having issues with Fire Chiefs and therefore we were reluctant to replace equipment and some of the equipment went too long yeah and so they're trying to be realistic and when I looked at this DPW schedule I tried to put out each year you know how many years that each last and that's what led my comment to you can you can actually program it out it runs about 2 and A4 2 and a half is the Run rate on the $2 million worth of Rolling Stock sitting in the parking lot yeah I'm going to take a little closer look at it you see just like $2 million worth of trucks they're 10 five 350s there are two 450s one one I mean you can just you know think part of it is know one question is is that is that the appropriate amount of money to be thinking about budgeting each year to maintain the asset the second question is do we have too much of an asset there right both question yes answer ask 5,000 people I have no idea whether $2 million makes any sense but I was AED by the number that's right I mean they those trucks oh yeah question that they're in those trucks yeah but I think at kind of a higher level when it comes to tangible assets like that we do get pretty good about saying here's our replacement cost here's how much we have to be putting W so the fire police DPW little squishy I mean the harbor so guy who lives out near the Y club and I spent years looking at the treasuring model and we ultimately came up number to maintain that asset out there we should be on the dring level putting $275,000 in your St assuming a 15-year ding cycle for the whole har and that just kind of floats over here into boats and it floats over there so the stuff needs to get brought down to ground opinion especially if you look at $400,000 of motor vs holy moly we'll talk about the V another night okay well I I I was listening a little bit awesome yes awesome I think I think we have a lot of work yet to do on Capital I agree this I am actually so in years past we've got pretty big detailed thing we have a spreadsheet I know on Capital but this capital the town is I would say but she gave us a spreadsheet that went out no he did the five years or something looking at it a moment I sent it to you thank you I I sent I sent it tonight okay um yeah so we've got that but I think that presentation is not worth much oh I'm the one you just pointed to I'm not happy with this at all because there's not everything's in it right and the numbers didn't add up I'm going to go back and look at DPW and see what what the summ summary is versus the little sheets we have because it's not working and she has a spreadsheet which I'm going to ask her for Andy are you still on I I had a um would he have the link to the clear where you can get that updated real time budget do to don't we know we we we talked about this at the beginning of the right and again this is to it needs to have a revision number right because we look at a fiveyear capital plan I'm always one pushing multi-year out and then the next year it's all different it's different we need a REV number on these things so we can follow it that's right I I was just wonder is that something we can I know you're going back to various things I'm going to ask her for her spreadsheet okay okay her Excel spreadsheet yeah which is what she gave me last year and it had all the numbers in it oh and she updates it well this year is all about capital I mean the operating is and not much I'm just struggling with these pages they need more information you know years past we've had you know fire department has had three pages of what they've done what they've accure we asked to have it simpler but I think that what I had wanted was all of that stuff in one package and then the financial stuff in a separate package so it could be changed as we went along um but I mean Todd sent me and I haven't forwarded it you yet Todd sent me what he had in I see his little right up which he thought we had yeah it's state pages I think okay okay do I have a motion to seconds all in favor this meeting went too long glad to hear that what getting out at 9 or 930 DPW ch's not