It's 7:01 on Thursday, February 5th, and I will call the finance committee meeting to order. I have with me in the room from the finance committee, Gar Moore, Dean Mades, Andy Olden, Mory Kraton, Peter Twining, and myself, Sarah
Melish, um John Croft was not able to make it tonight. And also in the room is Ann Harrison from the select board, town administrator um Barleta and finance director Andrea
Mainville. Um Gerald, what's your last name? >> Marshall. >> Marshall from parks and grass. >> Fire chief McNeely from the fire department. And Captain
Cavender >> Cavender. Okay. From the fire department and John Brown's in the um I just wanted to start briefly with setting the table regarding where we are
on the budget. Okay. Um before we start talking about P uh fire. Um, so this last week in school came in with a significantly
different budget um and dropping it dropping our assessment maybe 700,000 um that we were looking at like 1.1
million increase and now It's a 600,000 increase. So, we don't have that 732 thou 700,000 delta gap that we had in the budget. Um, so things are looking better. Um, and I asked Andrea to to
update the budget book um because we also have a drop in the school um debt service, whatever they call capital, of a drop of 54,000. Um,
so we're in much better shape than we were last week. >> So, how is the school in percentage to what we originally forecasted in the original January? Was it is it back to what it was? >> About half.
>> So, it's less than Okay, great. >> Yeah. So yeah, >> we had we we had 3.5% increase in the budget and I think they're now 3 >> this is showing 3.43
and the reason is is there's a difference between what you'll see in the school reports >> and what we have in our budget. Um there the school reports show an increase an an increase of in our assessment of 645.
We have only 601 and that's because I believe last year we went to town meeting before they had finalized their appropriation and they decreased it some after we voted. >> Yes. >> Um so it's it's on our budget it's a
it's a 601 increase which is um 3.43%. So >> great. >> Am I correct on that? >> Yep. Anytime we can keep it under three and a half is a good year. >> Boy, that's a shimmer. >> Um, and
>> amazing piece of news. >> It's Well, and what happened is so they dropped their health insurance from 20% to 14 and they believe it may go lower because it's experience rated and they've had good experience in the last
couple of months. um they are using some of their excess and deficiency i.e. reserves um and they're decreasing their OPED payment. Last year they put in about
880,000 to their OPED. What they've been doing on OPED is increasing what they deposited at the rate of the increase in their insurance premiums. So this year they're dropping it back to 300,000. >> Yeah. And and that is a substantial
percentage lower than what they >> Yeah. >> they had projected. >> Yeah. And um yeah, they had 880 in there. >> Thank you. >> Um and then the circuit breaker, which is reimbursement from the state for out
of place out of out of district special ed placements, um [clears throat] increased by 250,000. So, it was a 500,000 decrease in OPED, 150,000 decrease in the health insurance, and a 250,000
decrease in the circuit breaker. >> The total budget. >> Yep. >> Did the circuit breaker go down or did it go up for the school? >> The contribution went up, so their debt went down. Their need went down. Okay. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. When I when I said
those three things went down, it was decreasing the budget. >> Yeah. >> Yes. But yes, went up. >> Any questions on that? So then I asked Andrea to give me an estimate of the tax increase
and I'm still not clear on it because it's coming in at 2.2%. And so what I said to Andrea, how can it come in at 2.2%. >> If we're we're increasing
prop 2 and a half by two and a half plus we have about 3/4 of a percent in excess levy capacity. And Andrea says it has something to do with a cap exclusion, which I still don't understand.
>> Yeah, there's a lot of it's like a jigsaw puzzle. >> Yeah. So, >> so even though we voted for the cap exclusion outside of the budget, it impacts the tax rate, >> right? >> And so we decreased it
>> by $410,000. >> Okay. >> So if we anything less than 660,000 that that's what we have to do as a capital exclusion to keep the tax rate the same. The increase, >> right? But I think the theory behind
I thought the theory behind decreasing the capital exclusion was to offset the increase in debt service. >> The debt service decreases. >> No, from the the >> new borrowings. >> New borrowing. >> Okay. Yeah.
>> And so that's why I'm still confused. So, we don't have to resolve it tonight, but I think that's something we need to keep in mind. >> Well, a little bit. That's why I wanted to go through the I'm going to do a debt
um projection and spreadsheet when we get to the debt meeting. Good. Um so, we know >> exactly >> all that. Yes. >> Because the the theory was to decrease the capital cash exclusion as we increase the long-term debt, right? And so I kind of expected the tax rate
>> to be level when it went down. So >> okay. >> I think we also uh we also you also asked Andrea to adjust our number in our insurance as well. Yes. Which she did. >> That's right. Right. >> So we have that plugged in at the 14%.
Right. >> Yes. uh which again we don't have our actual assessment yet but that's the indication that we've received just like the school. Um so when we get our actual assessment >> 15 >> they they said we're likely to be around
the 14% range. So we reduce that 20% to 14%. >> 15 right? >> 14 15 >> 15. So just in case it's 14 something
>> and that preliminary indicator was pretty accurate last year as well, right? >> Or did it? >> Well, I think he expects more detailed information before we get through the budget season. >> Yeah, >> hopefully mid fee, you know, in the next couple weeks.
>> And as if I'm reading this correctly, that's a decrease of 90 odd thousand from what we originally projected. >> Yes. Okay, any more questions on that? And
>> just what that f at the end of what you know bottom line what that turns out to be when we make all those adjustments I think we're at 20 something,000 say 20 >> 26,000 >> $26,000 that we haven't
>> allocated yet. So we're actually up yeah we're actually >> okay that's what I thought. Okay. 26,000 extra. Not extra, but >> unspent. Yeah, >> we still don't have the, as we talked
about earlier, we don't have our uh trash number yet. We are we do have a significant increase allocated in this budget for that. Um, but that's still one of those big
variable numbers that we don't know yet. Then hopefully we'll get it before the end of budget season. >> Yes. I I hadn't thought on on that whether we should put some of the cost to the the parks and wreck and some to
deep like the the harbor for sanitation or like the downtown stuff that's been increasing so much. But you know that might be a way to offset. >> Well, let's talk about that when we do DPW next week. >> Next. Yeah.
>> Yeah. because they'll have better information. Okay. So, I believe that Chief Nick sent us an email. >> Look at that.
So, >> let's see. >> It's your floor, Chief. Yes, >> that's just copying so it's gonna be on the screen so you don't have to screen. >> Okay, >> Sarah, can you hit your uh >> I definitely
>> Thank you. >> We'll get something fancy like this must be good news or bad news. >> Well, you you can decide at the end. memorized. >> Then Andrea's numbers are on the back of that
hand. Okay. Screen up. Right. >> So I just uh uh chat with Sarah quickly today just to see what order we wanted to attack things in. So kind of the order we looked at staffing, salaries,
operating and then uh capital. Uh so the first thing um just so everyone has kind of an understanding of how it operates. Now I think sometimes is uh gets confusing. So, if you look at our current FY26 uh staffing, um we run with the
full-time firefighters run with four groups. Uh each group works two 24-hour shifts in an 8 day cycle. So, they average 42 hours of work in an 8 day cycle. Um when we look at the four groups, uh our minimum manning is usually is one below with the stat. So
if somebody's on vacation, somebody's out sick, we don't back billill and that helps us curve our overtime and basically we're able to absorb that with the staff that we have. Um when we look at um that if when we count in vacation
time, personal time and I took the worst case scenarios um when we did this 66% of the time we dropped from four people to three people and that's taking an assumption that people take two sick days over a course per calendar year. Um so well 66%
um with the safer uh grant the safer grant includes um our match is 25% um so we pay for one uh full-time position and the safer grant picks up the other three. um bringing the each
group to five individuals which would leave our minimum staffing at four firefighters per group and then using the same calculation for our um vacation personal time and then still saying with two sick um days per person 83% of the
time we go from five people to four people. Um that's why that they you know I'll kind of explain why the thought of the four people is kind of the standard we're shooting for. There's a variety of different reasons. um questions on this chart as is and
then kind of the next one is explaining why the four is what we're striving for as our benchmark. >> Right. Yeah. So, um one of the big justifications for the safer grant was to replace two people anticipated to retire.
>> Uh so, it allows us to on board. So, for the safer grant, when we uh put in for the safer grant, we were at 16 FTEEs. The safer grant requires us for the three-year grant period to increase and maintain to 21 FTEEs. So the performance period which is a accounting nightmare
is from March of 20 uh March 19th 2026 to March 19th of 2029. So it doesn't fall in the calendar year. It also doesn't fall in the fiscal year. It's completely separate. Um which becomes uh a little problematic. Um so one of the things that we find in public safety one is we have to find people that want to
do the job still and then we need to train them on board them etc. Um we've been fortunate in the past um I think our well is starting to um diminish a little bit with you know we've been fortunate but I think our well is diminishing a little bit with bringing
in people that are trained firefighters and trained paramedics so they literally hit the door running. Uh so there's going to be an onboarding time which I'll talk about uh in a moment. So the goal is to kind of foreshadow that, >> right? >> But then my goal uh as chief is during
this pilot program time is to show try added programs, benefits to the town, increase our collectibles uh whether fire prevention, ambulance receipts, etc. in order to offset some of that cost and come back to you and um do a big dog and pony show in a year and a
half. >> Jean, why do we think we've been so fortunate on the staffing? Um, I think when you look at the hiring of the fire service, um, the bigger cities use like a civil service list that used to be every two years. So when we did our
hiring, we were in the off years when that list was already exhausted. So people that didn't get hired or weren't on that list were looking for somewhere else and we were able to do that. Now they've changed that tune and they do the civil service list every year. But
it become a lot more um savvy and u now we're um marketing towards this area because one of the things with our full-time firefighters is we're still a small department and yes you know we can argue numbers based upon you know um
population but when we have something we need people that live close so we have this demographic of a cape in you still need people to leave their house overnight to come in and we have multiple calls or something. Where do we tend to draw from? >> Um we have a lot like Magnolia. We've
the call department is actually um two from Glasser and the remaining are Manchester and then the full-timers we only have one full-timer that lives in town. Uh the rest are Hamilton, Gloucester,
um kind of moving out towards the end. What do we have? >> Was it a zone you consider acceptable in terms of travel time to the >> So we don't for the full-time. We don't have it for the call department. We use a 15 minutes from house to station
um is what we use as a response time. >> Does that include mely? >> Yeah, typically. >> Yeah, typically. >> Yeah. Um so the next slide just uh re review the call department. We've been fortunate um we're down to three
operationally ready uh firefighters. One's a medic, one's an EMT, and uh one has um is a first responder. And then uh we have four nonoperational means. They really can't respond. Um we have a new one of the new call firefighters is in training now. Um he's going to graduate
in the next uh two months and then he's going to do some medical training. Uh we have one of our firefighters is on maternity leave and uh one firefighter can't uh doesn't have the time commitment to maintain the certifications necessary to do interior firefighting. So he's still a valuable member of our department. He's just not
an operational role. He's more of a a support role. And then we have one on a leave of absence u because they didn't have the time commitment either uh with personal life. So we're hoping that they'll return. They're a town resident. We hope they return next year. Um, so that's where we're at with our seven
qualified fighters. And that number, I think, is a good number because it's a costbenefit analysis you got to do by the time you train somebody, you give them personal protective equipment that you need a return on investment. Um, so I think seven is a good number. Um, so I'm hoping that some of those
nonoperational, you know, return for maternity leave, uh, the one that's in training will come back and we'll we'll kind of scale that operation back up. >> What's your your protocol? um for calling in call firefighters. >> Um so we break our calls into what we
call still alarms and al tones. Um so a still alarm is basically your average medical residential fire alarm outside order gas something where the likelihood of something significant happens less. Um if the ambulance transports to the
hospital um depending on how many people are working we'll hire back to make sure that we can handle that second call. Um, so contractually that has to be offered to full-timers first and then it goes to call firefighters. It's almost a 50-50 split of who's available that comes
back. Um, and then the all tones are obviously a structured fire, car accident with enttrapment. If it's multiple calls going on at the same time, anything in a commercial occupancy during business hours is an alone. Smoke in the building, inside odor of gas. You
just saw what happened up in Nashew just a few days ago. Um, so those we consider are a higher likelihood to turn into something bigger and now there's an alone and they come back for that. >> Does is is it a annual stipen that firefighters get and does like when
they're nonoperational does that affect >> uh so no nonoperational they don't get uh they get paid per hour they come back >> they come in. Yeah. >> Um so they get a little bit more money between the hours of 1000 p.m. and 7 a.m. just because we're going to entice them to >> and it's mostly second jobs anyway. Yes.
Yep. Yep. Um and so, you know, I kind of review why the four firefighters is kind of where we're trying to get uh 247 is uh just this is calendar year numbers from last year. Last year we had 238 occurrences of multiple calls going on
at the same time. So that means we had crews tied up on one call and we had to respond to a second call. Um so having um four firefighters on duty allows us to flex and cover two calls. Now there was times when we had three, four, five calls going on. Obviously uh we can't
staff for that because the probability of that happening is a lot lower than our simultaneous calls. And then you know I analyze call volume by day of week hour of day trying to see you know do we have a area that's we can um have a increase staffing for a certain period
of time. Um, and what always comes back, and this has been steady over the three years, is about 60 to 65% of the time our calls are between 400 pm and 8 a.m. or on the weekend. So, off of normal business hours. Um, so that's the other reason why we kind of maintain that
staffing throughout. And >> these are the two charts on the third the third page. >> Yep. Bottom of the third page. So, the left one just says how many times you did simultaneous calls. The blue bar on the left is just two calls going on at the same time. then three and then >> what unit of time?
>> Uh so if we have two if we have two calls going on. >> Yes. >> So like if we call on the radio and say we're clear, we're available, that call's done. We could still be on the road returning. It's we're actually on scene or on the way to the hospital um actively at an incident.
>> But these numbers are from calendar year 25. >> Calendar year 25. 25. >> Yep. I'm I'm sorry. I'm just missing something. So they're so the incidence of having two simultaneous calls is just under 2.5.
Isn't that over a unit of time? Is that a per day or per I mean that >> no the total occurrences are 238. >> Yeah. So don't look at the 200. It's 2, three or four. There's nothing in the half. That's just the way the graph printed out. >> So simultaneous calls. Yes. two week
>> two two at the same time three at the same time and four >> okay >> and just for reference what's the overall call number >> um this year we are at >> 11 90 >> 1100 almost 1,200 calls >> y >> and those are uh 911 calls so if you uh
compare town to town um we dive a little bit further because some people put in putting a car seat in as a call um I count you call 911 That's a call. If we do a public safety service or inspection, we don't count that in that number. These are pure emergency calls
for service. >> So about a fifth of your calls >> are involving two incidents simultaneously. >> And I I I've told this Tony it's crazy on we'll go 20 hours without doing anything. We'll do two calls in a
15minute period. I'm not sure if people see the lights like, "Hey, seems like a good time to call 911." It's it's very random and and you can't predict it. You know, if you look at year to year, you can't see any charting or forecasting that you could do to
>> whenever I see go by, I call. >> Wouldn't the county dispatch send it to someone else if they knew you were out on a call? >> So, they would. Um, but I I don't want to speak for the town's people, >> right? um they specify. >> Now, let's say we have a second ambulance call. We don't have to stop
it, >> right? >> Our next town over is Essex that would come. If it's outside of ours, they have to leave their house, go to their station, get the ambulance, then drive here. >> Uh so, you have a reaction time problem. Um so, we can call and you know, we'll
call anybody, they'll come. It's just what's an acceptable risk >> if you were that second 911. >> I I figured they do it right away. And and you say we call, but that goes through regional dispatch. Direct. You don't ever call direct. >> No, no, no. Regional dispatch will know.
And we have protocol set up. So if we're tied up, um they'll automatically whether it's a fire incident or EMS, they say, "Okay, incident number two, they can handle this. When they're on the second call, we get a call Essex, Gloucester, M." That's all predefined. So it's seamless. There's no delay in
the dispatch. The delay would be of where that unit's coming from. if it's coming from a staff station or you have to wait for their on call people if available to get to the station to get the vehicle to come here. >> And then is the third tier the ambulance we sometimes see like on uh school uh
Pine Street or Southern Avenue. Sometimes it's like Boport. >> Yeah. So Bport So Bowport um does the 911 for Hamilton the entire town like BLS. They're the ambulance. They also do Rockport. So when they're um staging
there, they're usually covering a large geographic area and we just happen to be the middle of where they might have to go. >> Got it. >> Y has the incidence of overlapping calls changed much over the years? I know you've only been here a short time. >> So for my three years, it keeps going
up. Um I would much rather have the same calls and like spread out. You got and it also is much more budget friendly to have spread out. Um but it it's the call volume has gone up and therefore you know the simultaneous call >> and simultaneous the incidence of
overlapping has gone up about the same >> speed. >> Yeah. >> And you don't ever tell the dispatch tell them to wait. We don't do overlapping. [clears throat] >> And and the thing is too you know you look at um you go back when I first
started in the fire service and the MS was considered an emergency. definition of emergency where somebody's arms will be hanging off. Times have changed. People's definition of emergency has changed. So, you know, like we train our staff is when we go out the door, it might not be an
emergency in our eyes, but the person on the other end of the phone it is. Um, and we don't know what they're calling 911 for because we can go for a toe pain and it could be some type of, you know, telephone tag that it's actually somebody unconscious. So, we never know if it's going to line up to what we're
getting dispatched to to what we actually find when we get there. >> So, yeah, on the um on the assistant fire chief, that that's a slam because you deferred it from last year and we appreciate you for doing
that, but a lot of this I mean, we've spent a lot of money in recent years to get to the four teams of four or three. Yep. >> And um that was the goal [clears throat] to achieve. Mhm. >> Um the safer grant came on as I I
justified it on three things. We had some retiring people. We're getting a second ambulance. >> Yep. >> And the office park is expanding up at the >> Yep. Um, if this is a tight budget year and if
these three conditions aren't really happening this year, would we be able to extend, you know, deferred the safer grant till next year or >> so? So, we can't we can't defer the safer grant. Um, because basically what they would just say it's like hitting the lottery and be like, "Oh, I don't,
you know, don't want the money now." Is >> we delay implementation like so? >> No. Well, so visa, like I was mentioned before, the performance period of the grant goes from March of 2026, I think it's the 19th or 15th, the actual, and then to March of 2029. So if it delays,
we're just delaying um >> we have to apply another year basically. >> Well, we can't go past that, so we're basically le losing money or leaving money on the table. Um and kind of my and we'll get into the revenue side of things as well. Um, I think you're going
to see some positive revenues coming already from what we're doing. And I think you're going to see even more uh from some stuff that's planned that's going to offset the town's costs at least for year one and year two of that 25%. Um, oh, okay, we're on the big page now.
Okay, so uh salary changes. Um, so I just highlighted kind of the numbers that are outside of the contractual obligations are down at the bottom right. Um, so that safer uh position uh for the 25% is 61,856. Um, the overtime like I was saying when
we were on boarded, so out of the people that we have conditional offers for the safer grant, two are plug-and-play. So we're able to hire two people that were certified firefighters and certified paramedics. Uh, the other two have their fire one, two, but they're in paramedic school. uh which starts in uh May and
that runs for a year. Um so what I did was I increase overtime uh because as they go to school they'll get the school hours off. So if they're in school from just randomly pick 6:00 to 10 at night they'll be out of work from 6:00 to 10
at night and then it's very hard to say okay is that a usually we're not going to have to backfill that but if we do how if somebody's on a vacation already do we have to backfill it? So that's kind of a forecasted number based upon backing. >> What happens when they're not in school? >> They're working they're they can work as
an EMT. We can utilize them in the force. Um so the way the state works the ambulance it used to be you had to have two paramedics to be an ambul a paramedic truck. Now they allow on certain calls that you have one EMT and one paramedic. So we can utilize these individuals for the non critically acute
calls. Um and we will have a return on the investment on as they get trained. Have you hired all four of those people under the same? >> They all have a conditional offer. Okay. >> Um with uh background checks are in process and um going through the >> and the conditions are background
checks. >> Uh background checks uh medical evaluations. Um and then the two that aren't in medical school, one of the conditional offices, they have they have to become a paramedic within two calendar years of appointments. uh paramedic school is
usually about a year year and a half and then certifications they take the test twice or something like that. >> One question is obviously the whole safer thing works well if you can find the >> the staff to go in here. If if you don't then it's like okay you're plugging
holes with OT but do you have an issue with people coming to Manchester getting trained and going other places or when they come here and go through the training do they tend to stay? I know we've kind of wrestled with that years ago. >> Okay. >> Um so we've been very fortunate to I
don't want to uh recruit um I'll say old experienced firefighters who might want to come to a slightly slower environments uh that are already trained which is a benefit to us because they they have experience and they have uh they have the training. Um, one of the things we're looking at is down the road
is if we have somebody that's going through medical school, they're fronting the bill for medical school, um, being they've already applied doing some type of educ and obviously this has the negotiations and, uh, a lot more things above me, but basically give them a small incentive over the five-year
period that will reimburse them paramedic school so we get them to stay and kind of get um, ingrown ingrained in the community and the department. So, uh, that's one thing we do look at these is, you know, attrition is a huge cost to us. Um, and that's one of the things
with the safety grant as well. We're upstaffed. My goal is to run some pilot programs to increase revenue and try to prove to you that it's beneficial to keep it. But if not, that's we've used that as a mechanism to train people on board them so we don't see those spikes in overtime that we've seen historically
over the past 10 years. to the to the folks the the firefighters that you would you would hire through the safer grant those three was the one that the town has to hire. >> If you know in year two you lose like one or two people because they want a
more exciting >> y >> environment. Um, does that I mean are the safer are the safer hires? Are they tagged? >> They're not tagged to names, they're tagged to FTE numbers. >> So you have to restore that total
number. Otherwise, do you lose you lose the safer funding until you can get back to that number? >> You don't lose the number. The percentages change based upon we we're still responsible x% of amount spent, but we have to be showing due diligence in trying to fill that.
So, for instance, we put out a let's say we put out a um job posting, no one applied for it, we put it out again, they're going to come and say, "Well, you it's not for a lack of trying. You're just not having any as long as we're doing our due. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, they won't yank the fun.
>> You then lose the safer money that would have applied to the extended period for the hire. >> I'm back question. >> It would just be the period that where we we don't have the four. >> Yes. Exactly. >> We lose whatever percentage
>> applies in that period. >> Yeah. >> And our our percentage then goes down because we're paying 25% of the total. going to pay 25% of whatever. >> Yes. >> So, this may be more of an operational question, not to interrupt, but
>> if if we're following Andy's logic, and you've for some reason hopefully not lost two people >> and you're trying to hire two people back, would you be hitting over overtime to keep that staff at the safer level or would you back down on that a little bit
until you could hire at least a third person? Yeah. So >> I'm just kind of wondering if this you know on on one scenario the OT can get I don't like >> so with time the OT would become problematic if we lost four. >> So losing two we can move people from
group to group. So then the only time that OT is being triggered is if somebody's on vacation or out sick. So you and you're basically you have to you know play roulette and see how many numbers people have played and put them in the right positions to optimize >> your staffing to three if people are
out. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah that's that's the question. >> So you can move people so you can move people around >> and do you have any experience predictable about the turnover rate? >> Uh it's slowed down since it's slowed down tremendously. Um I think the
environment um and relationship between the town and the fire department has improved. I think there's a lot of variables that have increased over the last few years. >> Is that you unlikely to lose a person in a year or you know >> so I in the back of my mind I have we're going to lose somebody every two to
three years is the number I have in the back of my head whether and some we know they're going to go because they're going to retire and then I think you know every two to three I think I almost I'd be safe to say four years we're going to lose somebody. gives you some element of mild predict predictability. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I wonder like if we could offer a bonus to some of our DPW workers if they're called firemen just because they all have second jobs if if there's in town. It just seems like there'd be a lot of synergy there. >> So, so I mean it used to be that way
historically. The problem is now that we're in OSHA state the job requirements for being a qualified. It's almost on the police departments, you know, with the police reform. It's kind of the same thing that >> train them obviously, but they'd be less willing less likely to walk if they also had another job at
>> all. I know. >> No, it is. I mean, I look at all I mean, I'm very cognizant of, you know, public safety is definitely not by any mean a money maker. So, I'm very cognizant of, you know, the expenses and the risks and the benefits and the probabilities of when how often does this really happen.
Um, you know, none of the guys on the station like that. We like, you know, the oh, wait, we're an ambulance service that occasionally puts out a fire. I mean, that's that's what we are. Um, and you know, our call call percentage split reflects that, you know. Um, and that's not just us, that's any department is,
you know, you have 70% on average is going to be your FMS, if not war, uh, of the call. A lot of times, you know, you take a car accident, that's a fire related call, but also this we're transporting people. So, gets lumped that 70%. and chief at the end of the safer.
>> Yep. >> The town is picking up 75% of three positions or four. >> So when the when the safer grant ends in um March of 29, basically the safer grants done. What they used to do uh the
safer grant used to pay 100% but then the town was obligated to maintain those FTEEs for a certain period of time after that. What they did this time around was they decreased the federal government share but they didn't tie handcuff you
after that point in time. I see. Yeah. >> So you were hiring four people. >> Three now. Three uh three as of excuse me. Yes. Four now. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And four in process now. Um you'll
see the um on the salary line item you'll see the um TA change the um salary one you'll see a change of 40,000. Um so what that is we know we have our retirement coming up in basically a year from now give or take a couple weeks. Um so that's one of the
ones where we have to look at reaction time and what our staffing is like. So that that's one where come October, November, we have to look at training. Are we going to see a spike in overtime or is that one that we're already we're all set? We don't need to
back fill. Um so that's why we left that as a out remove that and then we if we had a problem we that's why that 20,000 is in there for training and the that little overtime bump if that should occur.
>> Wow, what a management headache. entire system tires. >> No, no, the bone with me. >> Okay. >> Um, assistant fire chief. >> Yeah. >> That's an internal >> Yep. >> promotion.
>> Yep. >> And now what happens in the position that that person filled? >> So that's that's one of the four that one of the four. >> Good. Okay. Okay. Good. That's why I said I I knew that. >> So So the the one that's in question is when we have that retirement what we do
and we don't have it listed here. >> Uh we'll we'll have a >> that's why I said three, but I Okay. >> Yes. But you didn't list the retirement that >> the retirement is not on. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. With the system
question. You have to maintain the staffing that you've got here through the whole safer program. >> We have to maintain 21 people >> 21 FTEES for the safer period of performance. >> The retirements cap happened before that
otherwise you got to do something about that. >> Yes. Uh one of the the safer grant was um it just happened this way. I wish I could I didn't plan this way. The SA grant was put in for based upon numbers prior to the assistant chief being
authorized at time of need. So technically for a couple month period we'll be at 22 but then we'll drop to 21 because we're not backfilling the retirements listed. >> You don't have to because you still got
the 21. >> Correct. >> How do you get Okay. So the four was in the 21. Got it. Okay. [clears throat] >> Next. Yes. >> So, we have any more questions on the salary section.
>> Exhausting. [clears throat] >> Try looking. No, you guys do this for a living. Parts of parts. Um, all right. operating is a little bit easier to exch uh explain. Uh first thing I'm just
going to go over the two changes and then there's a you see a whole bunch of plus and minuses column. I'm going to explain that in slide number two. So the major changes, one is an increase of 2,000 in radio maintenance um because the cost of radio and supplies is just like everything else in the world has
gone up. So we went from um 4,000 to 6,000. And then what I put in here and you know we can discuss this as well is one of the things that every 10 years we have to uh replace people's turnout gear. Um so instead of doing a
large lump sum purchase every 10 years um I think it's more frugal and beneficial especially when you look at um you know turnover and things to buy do three sets of gear per year uh because now we have to start switching over to PAS free gear which again um
they show up in a bag and it's pas free and then we walk into a choir and there's no more PAS free but um that's we've had that debate later >> and is that a requirement? Uh that's the B. Yeah. So basically come um next year you're not going to be able
to buy gear that's not >> PASF free. >> Come in a nonp free bag too. >> Probably not. >> The moment it's exposed to a fire. It >> So we we have a gear extra. So they come PAS free, but the minute we walk into a fire, we're covered in PAS. We do have a
a washer and a dryer. That's not going to get 100% out. It's >> Does that mean you have to replace it? >> No. No. Then they haven't got that yet. >> Okay. >> And actually it's not the building fires that are the PAS. It's actually all the kitchen like food on the stove because
you have all the pans that are putting off the the rubber and the plastic. That's the more toxic than walking into a regular room. >> Have we mitigated all the like the older the foam stuff that's since long gone? >> So there's nothing residual around the
building. >> No. Everything that we have now has been um rotated out. >> Yeah. >> Um so I'm just going to switch to the next slide um because you see a whole bunch of plus and minuses on the column and the next slide kind of explains the
um thought process behind them. Um because we had um fire station utilities account but then we had natural gas, electric and heat which we like to you know obviously separate out. Um so we just got rid of the fire station utilities. um and we merged that with
building repairs. Now, any huge building repairs comes under a DPW, but we have a lot of handy um firefighters that were able to do stuff without adding labor cost to it. So, that this allows us to go to the hardware store, get stuff to be able to fix stuff inhouse. Um and
then, um [clears throat] some of the like custodial supplies we've merged with fire station maintenance. We just had so many line items and they weren't just lining up for accounting purposes. So, I just listed out why we changed them, but the the two u increases were that PA pass free gear line and then the
added $2,000 for the radio me. >> I don't see the gear line. >> Oh, that's under um >> Oh, that's a new line. Sorry. No, >> it's the last line on the bottom. >> Free.
>> I still don't see it. Where is it? It's the last line on the >> Oh, it's on I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong >> It is on that, too. But it's on the >> No, I see it on Yes, I was on the wrong page. >> So, it it would probably be good when we get in the facilities budget to note
that 8700 is already in the fire department, fire. >> So, that has been there. It's nothing new that's been there historically, but it >> could be 40 grand a year. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And this is just Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And one of the other things that >> maintenance, I think. I think so too. >> Yeah.
>> And one of the other things that we're in the process, we have a firefighter that's uh very mechanically inclined. So in the process of getting him, you have to be quoteunquote certified to touch the trucks uh by uh regulation. So he's actually doing the certification. So we're hopefully going to cut down on a lot lot of labor costs from bringing in
outside vendors and some of the smaller stuff we can do in those which will save uh some money. I was just looking at that. Where in here is the maintenance of the you know your vehicles and >> uh so $30,000 maintenance plan >> apparatus maintenance. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay. Is the new 4,000 professional services related to the radio? >> Uh the 4,000 professional services we moved out of some other accounts in order to uh be more transparent. So professional services is we bring in an assessment center to do like promotional
exams. Uh we have firefighters uh on boarding medical exams. So things like that didn't really fall into a category. Um so professional services that's kind of >> like union. >> No, it's just anytime that we would hire we need to hire somebody.
>> Okay. It's a training >> hiring promotions that type of thing like >> like the background searches and stuff you're doing now. >> Thank the police departments want we have a great working relationship. They uh handle that for us. And you have [clears throat] a lot of
you have a lot of changes here, but if you look at the bottom line, it's only 11,000 more, 9,000 of that is the PA fast- free gear. >> So, it's while it looks like there's a ton of increases and decreases, actually not.
>> We're getting something added. >> It's more mostly shifting. >> Hey, I'm just trying to streamline the process so it makes it's clear for somebody looking at the budget what the money's going for. Right. And >> I'm sorry if you mentioned this, but how
many pieces of gear is the 9,000 for? >> Uh, they'll buy three sets of gear a year. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> If somebody leaves, >> hopefully somebody else fits into that turnout gauge, use it. Okay. >> Yep. >> We can't we can't measure somebody and
say, "Well, we'll hire you versus you." [laughter] >> No. You're too tall. >> Yeah. >> Um All right. Uh revenues. Um in fiscal
year 25 uh we had $285,000 in revenue. Uh 270 of that was um annual charges. The rest we just lump some and just call it fire prevention services, permits, fees, inspections, etc. Uh I'm expecting in fiscal year uh 26, our current fiscal
year, our receivable ambulance receivables by themselves will be 325,000. Um as well as as well, we'll see an increase in the fire prevention fees because select board back in September voted for a new uh fee schedule that went into effect October 1st. So I just
don't have enough uh end numbers, if you will, to predict what those are going to be right now. Uh but you're going to see an increase in that as well. Um the ambulance receivables increase is based on two things. Uh one call volume increase and we switch billing companies. Um we were with the same
billing company for two plus decades and this new billing company is a little bit more astute looking at some of the smaller things and it's actually made significant difference for us. >> You actually collect the outstanding bill. >> Remember that the missing bills were
running like 25%. I presume it's better now or it's hopefully better. >> Yeah. So, and they weren't setting. So, this uh new company handles going up uh to FFR. Forget what that means. >> Basically, a collection process through
the insurance companies. Uh this company does it automatically. They have a set time frame then it moves on. Uh the other company it just bought it just got bigger and bigger and bigger until you're like why is this so big? It was too late to go back and and rectify it.
So, Chief, what are you projecting then revenue in FY27? What is your your projection? >> I I'm my projection is I'm guessing we're going to be between 350 and 375 for the ambulance and uh we said 2 >> 27
>> 27 starting July 1st of 26. >> Yes. >> Yes. I'm gonna say 350 to 375 in the ambulance. And I don't I don't have the numbers. I don't want to just spitball on the B prevention side. There's a lot tied to that. You're going to see those increase because we have some big
projects going on in town that are going to need permanent fees, inspection fees, and things like that. >> And that's mostly because of fee, higher fees or or is it more activity? >> Both. >> Both. >> Well, you have the CS2, right? Which >> Well, that'll be on the fire prevention
side, but on I'm just saying 350 to 375 on the ambulance. Yeah. >> And that's because there's more activity and better billing. >> Okay. And what is the answer to the receivables that were still that are outstanding? >> Uh so I see 325
>> the whole process is like some write offs and things like that. I'm not sure what >> Yeah, we have a collection process and so you know Jake Jake and I get like monthly reports and then anything that's old we we move over to a collection company FFR um and then they follow up
with the rest of the process. So our collection company like you know the billing company sends out some letters they don't get response then we say you know move it over to the bill collection agency and then go from there to see if they can collect it and if they can't then we look at writing it off.
>> Are the receivables staying increasing or staying level or decreasing? What what's happening with the size of receivables from year to year? >> So they were increasing. Um so we just kind of cleaned up all the old stuff. um early Jake did and um then we're going
forward with this new company and so we'll see what what that looks like come forward. >> What's the >> what's the amount? >> Yes. >> Receivable just for the ambulance from July 1st to December 31st
um is 148 149,000 but they took over in July for any ambulance strips from July. So the first two months there's a 60-day lag. So this 150,000 is really instead of 6 months is probably about a four month receivable.
>> And are those all delinquent? >> No, that's what's those are checks actually in our project. >> And [clears throat] what percentage of that of the 150 would would be categorized as delinquent or sent to the collection? So in in that same six-month
period, we build out $498,193. So half a million in the first six months and we collected 150 in >> so $250 >> and that's that's not just here that's just the you have private insurancees,
you have Medicare, you have Medicaid, >> there's so many different variables. A substantial part of our total, >> you know, billings >> are are delinquent. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> And so when you see ambulance billing
reforms and stuff that all that is tied to >> Sure. >> fixing that. >> So you bill the same amount >> for transport and then it depends on what the insurance companies are willing to pay. And so if they don't get paid,
we don't get paid. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Or if they pay, we bill them, just easy math, we build them $1,000. They say, "Well, we we're willing to pay 600." Uh if it's a town resident, they usually get a they get one bill and then usually [clears throat]
we don't go after town residents for the difference because we figure that's part of our tax out of town res, excuse me, out of town. uh people we tend to I think they're a little bit more uh pushy to get but it's
not in town residents we don't go after >> it is an interesting figure though >> it is it's mindboggling when we look at the numbers get rid of Medicare bills that go to the insurance companies are much larger than what they actually pay
>> andrea you said we cleaned up >> what does clean up mean right off >> yes chase right now >> well essentially We took um we switched companies. We took all of the old um you know companies receivables and said send
them to the collection agency. So we've essentially written them off. We could still get money from them. Um essentially that's what we did. We just moved whatever balances that were we were carrying over to the collection. >> How big was the number that we quote cleaned up? >> Well, three million.
>> 300. It was about $300,000. >> Oh 330 something. Over what time period? Is that like two or three years? >> That could be for >> It was like 10 years. >> 10 years. >> Yeah. >> So the the money actually does flow in but very delay. >> Yes.
>> So if you understand this like sort of Gar's question, you bill out like 400,000. We collect about 150,000 and then of the 150,000 some percentage doesn't pay and and that's what ultimately is considered delinquent.
>> Of the 400 some percentage. Okay, the 150 is what >> has already got the 15 is what you've gotten. Okay, >> we want to >> So, so I mean for from a billing point of view for insurance, if you know you're going to get 68%. You push the
number as high as you can and then of course you say well that missing 32% is delinquent. But it's really how you get the money we >> there's all so the industry standard and I don't know how this became the industry standard is Medicare plus 300%. So whatever Medicare's allowable payment
is we build Medicare plus 300%. I don't know who there's going to be some mathematician >> I get my Medicare statement it's breathtaking >> not bill amount paid. >> Yeah it's crazy. >> And I don't know where where that 300% came from. There's got to be some
algorithm somewhere that that's, you know, a magic number. >> So, you never send residents into delinquency. >> Correct. They'll get they'll get one uh bill that says your insurance company paid this. This is what's due. But after
that, there's no like phone calls and it >> that's weird. M. >> So only people who pay who are responsible for their debts have to pay. >> That's just how it's been. That's just
been the billing practice here for decades. >> Put in the revenue numbers. >> What number do you use? I mean given all of this Mishagos. Um what what do you do? >> Actual collections, right? Yeah. So
that's the So the 270 that we received in 2025. Yeah. >> On the PowerPoint as well. That's what money we actually received in hand >> as payment. >> As payment. >> Now I also on my balance sheet I have a receivable for anything that we haven't collected yet.
>> No, I was in the first number. That's your 25. So when you're doing the revenue for 27, >> you're projecting the 20 the receive the amount received. I I'm still not clear what what number you're using. So >> expected collections
>> expected money the collection the collection >> money in >> 385 but that's from back in 25 >> what 25 was 207 >> just for ambulance >> for ambulance >> the bottom is 285
>> I see it yes >> expecting 325 to be actually paid >> for the fiscal year 26 >> so that's you're you're divining a number out of much uncertainty. >> Well, they're I think they're going off
of prayer your collections, right? When you do >> and and change with a new company. >> Yeah. >> So, that's creating a ratio that you're using. >> Okay. >> So, we took our collections
that we actually get in cash and we compare it to the cost. I sound like a businessman here. I apologize. I apologize for this. >> We compare if we take our cash collections for this activity >> compared to our cost
>> right >> for providing the service >> the difference is about a quarter of a million. >> Oh much more than that. >> More than that it's more than that >> and and it's hard to like that's I also want to break that down because you I want to say okay well percentage of the
firefighter's job you can say well 70%'s EMS so 30%'s fire. So you gota take down what the job description is because a dual role and not single role. So if you look at all the it's actually interesting to do like if you like the stuff like I do but it does when you get into the weeds like that um you wouldn't
open up a business to do this. >> No and it is not >> I'm I in no way impugn the wonderful things that our fire services provide which is
>> spectacular. It's just the quandry of, you know, >> yeah, where we're billing versus >> the budget. The budget's 2.2 million. >> Yeah. >> It's about government.
>> And things that things that will also change is we lose all these second ambulance calls. Our ambulance is tied up. Somebody else is getting those collectibles starting in July. We'll be getting those. So there and again, it's still not going to offset the cost. Not even close, right? But it's gonna lessen the blow.
>> The hematoma is gonna be a little smaller. >> So you really don't want to grow your ambulance service because that just makes it >> we're already there. We're not adding expenses. >> Someday we may hear an argument about growing ambulance, but I
>> This hole is >> pretty big. Pretty deep. >> Yeah. I mean, I think I think we're at a the point unless we start seeing, you know, 10 highrises downtown and like I don't like we're where where we need to be now and for the future, we are very
well set with where we're at. >> Unless something unless something significantly happens, uh, we are this is what Manchester needs. We're we can handle stuff and >> Yeah. I mean Morse gardens don't you know
garden apartments >> the towers >> the towers that's the word I want Morse towers >> very >> wow >> how much of the uncollected is people in town >> I don't know that
I would have to get back to And when do you stop counting them since you're not going to send them out for collection? >> Um, that is it's the time frame when it goes to I think it's 90 days to huh >> is it quarterly? Maybe it's quarterly.
It goes from the receivables to FFR and then to write up process. >> I thought we weren't going to FFR and intent. Well, so when I say FFR is like the reminder letter of um >> Yeah, like the FF like it it comes out and it's it's like an FFR letter, but
it's like write off or send to FFR. It's like two columns. That's why we say it's the same thing. >> At what point do you write off the unpaid int. >> Uh but it wasn't being done in a timely fashion. So that
>> bucket kept getting really big. >> Uh so now we're doing it streamlined. So quarterly you'll see those fall off. >> Uh emergency management. >> Um >> oh sorry. >> Are we ready to vote on the fire salary
and expenses since that's in one budget to the total of $2,185,75? Is >> that the correct number? >> Yep. >> Any discussion? Take a vote. My >> yes.
>> Peter, >> yes. >> Gar, >> yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> In ter? [clears throat] Okay. Now we can go to emergency management if I can find
>> 47 left. 47. >> 47. >> Great. >> So, in this budget, there's no change right now. Yeah. >> Um I have something that I'm going to be bringing to your attention. Um but I've
held it back uh not knowing how the rest of the budget was going to be um playing out. But what we've we've solicited a quote for a professional service that would fall under emergency management that in year one is a $15,000
price tag, but then annual cost per year is 2500. What this service is is a uh it's coastal surveying. Over the past few years, FEMA has
tightened their review process and evaluation process of what damage property damage counts towards FEMA reimbursement. and they become they get very strict on
uh being able to prove that the damage caused by a storm is specific to that storm. It wasn't something that a town neglected over time and then you know waited for a storm to come to put in the claim to get funds to help pay for the
rebuild. [clears throat] So what this service does is it actually does a coast what in year one it creates a baseline survey of our coastal of the entire coastline um and specifically our town properties
and then on an annual basis it'll fly the town properties only and will show any type of loss or gain in what it can it it'll calculate
um yards of sand. It'll show you changes to the dunes. It'll show you changes, you know, to a seaw wall or anything like that. Um we also have the ability to call them in immediately following a storm,
uh to run that same analysis. So what that does is it gives you the data to basically put a claim before FEMA for damage recovery funds. That's it in a nutshell basically. >> And how much did this cost
[clears throat] us? >> So the to create the baseline which is the most amount of hours to do the entire coast is 15,000. then uh their annual uh fly of just the town properties is 2500. So you have a you
have a big cost year one but then it's you know if you're only doing that one year update that's cheap right here you know 2500 >> and a claim were to happen that would be denied would be in the millions.
Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, in 20 uh in 20 what the >> was it 2015 the last big one? >> No, even more recent than that >> in 2000 and 2020,
2021 maybe. Um I mean, I don't know how how it worked out here, but in in the hot we were we had like $3.4 $4 million worth of damage. And that was pre, you know, I don't know if you've seen a lot of the news stories recently, but FEMA
has tightened up their review process now. And um essentially make it harder for you to get qualified for those month for those dollars. Well, so things like Ocean Street, stuff like that where we're kind of vulnerable,
um, [clears throat] flooding, you know, Masanoma Park, sewer treatment plant, stuff like that would be obviously very beneficial here. Is most of this damage shoreline or do you have like tree falls and other stuff like that? And
>> uh, this would be mostly co shoreline. Yeah. So, what they'll do is they'll come in and they'll they'll basically fight with you over how much material was lost due to the storm.
>> Um I mean, if you don't have that if you don't have the ability to prove that it was from that storm, >> Yeah. >> you you end up, you know, really fighting for those funds. >> Okay. >> It's like an insurance claim basically. >> Yeah. Well, a lot of that material
should have been gathered in our coastal resiliency study. No, >> you don't have >> But if it's not kept up every year, then you maintain. So, there was a question from residents about the FEMA flood insurance and
whether because we were told that there was an award-winning coastal resiliency study and that's supposed to give you a break on your rates or if there's some kind of proactive mitigation and and they were wondering if, you know, it's something that's very
cumbersome on the individual level, but the if the town can look at that to see if >> Yeah, there's that's kind of different from Yes, that's a community rating system. >> Um there's a lot of >> there's a lot of administrative
>> uh hours that go into that. So cost up front. >> Crazy. >> But it does if you do, >> you know, if you keep up with that, it can produce savings on flood insurance for all residents. >> So that's a little bit differentation though, you know, something like that. Yeah. Save money.
>> Take me back for a second. the emergency management. What comes what do we buy for that budget? What what is is it mostly administration? I'm I'm not sure I know >> historically it's been a little bit of a catchall depending on what the needs
were of of you know doing a risk analysis of emergency management. So sometimes it's supplies but could be traffic cones you know road barriers things like that. Uh one year we um upfitted one of the um side by sides to
use on the beach and use during flood waters, things like that. So it's the it's been used for salaries and it's also been used for items. So it's kind of a little bit of both historically. >> Is it used for the alert system or that? >> Um so we used it for the um I want to
say rehearsed 911, but it was not ra >> code red. Yeah, code red >> the code red as well. So emergency notification that's a line item here. >> Yeah. So that's zero because now that's coming under our uh agreement with regional dispatch. >> So they they pick up that cost.
>> So I know you're introducing us to further concept but it's it's just a big basket or a small basket actually or just expenses that we incur in the in in any aspect of an emergency.
>> Yeah. I I I mean I I think that it's significantly underfunded. Um, I think that, you know, whether it be warming stations, a shelter, whether it be coastal damage or, you know, flooding
and, uh, recovery, you know, um, staffing uh, during those events, communication with the public, recording all your costs and time sheets so you can include
that in your uh, damage claim. insurance claim, coordination with National Grid or the National Guard, you know, all those things that occur in those >> storm events >> um would fall under this budget, but
those are also things that you may or may not incur in any given year. >> And do other communities do it in some kind of mathematical way in terms of population or is there something is there a an approach? I mean, this seems
to be a bit a bit of a number out of >> this is out of the air. Uh, this is us. >> I I think most town this this is one of those departments or budget items that gets left behind in most communities. Uh but I think you're starting to see
with the increase in storms, with the tightening of the uh review process at the federal level, you're seeing towns start to focus a little bit more on this. Um and how they >> maybe that's something to worry about
for next year. I don't think we can afford to >> increase this bud. I mean that 15,000 makes sense but to add more to this budget in this fiscal year I don't see that we've got the money in the budget to do that >> just arbitrarily to increase it
>> your point is probably well taken but just knowing what it is I'm sure this has been an education to me about what it constitutes whether it's properly funded or not >> we have uh some >> well I mean in some in some towns it's a whole emergency management is a whole
art like you have an emergency manager you have full-time salaries. I mean, this is so it all depends on the >> That's why I was wanting to ask you what how how do you go about conceptualizing? >> We're covering in our other budgets now the costs.
>> We just don't have it separated out until we emerge. >> So, for in I'll give you an example kind of, you know, this last snowstorm, right? So, this last snowstorm, we had to up staff because we had >> and you had that. >> So, that comes out of our that will be a increase in our overtime budget. Whereas
if this was funded, I would submit and say, "Hey, we spent x amount for storm preparedness or storm response." It would that would get moved from that budget to my bud. >> But is Sarah's point that you're able to handle it in the regular budget? >> Usually, unless depending on the event, whatever the event is.
>> That's your argument. >> Well, I think my argument is really that >> there's not enough data in order at this point in time. >> Agree with you. in order to create a whole separate emergency management budget >> and that's not what I'm proposing. >> Mhm.
>> I don't care what year we look at this but how do you look at it is what I'm asking. I mean so you want to do it next year. What what what is it that we need to do over the next 12 months? >> So I think the mechanism right now is so for example as the chief said we we overspend on overtime. The police might
be overspending whatever we'll get toward the end of the year. Andrea says, "Well, we got two weeks left in the end of the year. We've got excess in this budget, excess in that budget." We move it around and we make it clean hopefully if it's not a huge number. And that's
kind of how we hedge against putting it all in a basket that doesn't get spent, drops down to free cash. [clears throat] >> So, it it gets kind of reconciled at the end of the year if it's not too big. >> We could look back at payroll records.
for those storm events to get the graph an idea. Um you know we we had a lot of we we also had we had a lot of volunteers that worked under emergency management. We had a cert team. Um we it it was there
was a different it was a little bit different than staffing up on police and fire. It was more of like um kind of managing all the different information that was coming in from the residents, from police, from fire, from DPW, making
sure that was distributed amongst those so that we were managing the storm properly, keeping track, entering that information into the emergency operations center. um if we need any help from MIMA or like I said national
grid or or the na uh national park uh all that stuff it was like you kind of really needed and then pre-storm >> we're usually meeting you know the weekend >> let's put this discussion off till outside of the budget cycle
>> fine I wasn't even going there this year anyway so [laughter] >> yeah but I personally we should put on our radar >> I think So, and I think >> try to solve >> all of the potential future issues
during this budget cycle because I want to finish. >> I don't want to be sitting here a year from now saying, "Oh, we didn't collect the data." So, we're still not clear because I'm hearing a recommendation. Let me finish. I'm hearing a recommendation that we ought to look at this from a different point of view. That's all. That's all I'm asking here.
>> And and I'll be prepared, you know, to to to make a stronger argument for that next year. uh this year I think you know I'd really like to get started with the baseline surveying if it works out that we have the funds to be able to do that
I think it's important to get that the more data you pull through that year per year prepares you for a potential disaster you know natural disaster in the future so >> I certainly would agree with that >> yeah so you want to amend this budget is
that what we're asking for Sarah is that what we're asking asking for here. >> I think that nobody's waiting. >> I think we can come back to it >> later weeks, you know. >> So, we want to hold off on approving this budget. >> I think so.
>> Okay. >> Um, so I did put in the next slide. I did put in the fire department vehicle list uh year of vehicle mileage of vehicle as requested and um estimated life expectancy. Um so anything that's
in yellow is basically a reserve or second piece. Anything is green is primary and then orange is uh purchase year. Um so if you uh if you just jump to the next slide for a second. Uh so under our capital items, I'll go for the
easiest one first. uh cardiac monitor replacement. This is just payment three of three. So, the last one uh for our paramedic cardiac monitors that have already been done. Um the next one down or the firefighting equipment. Um it was initially $70,000. Um we did a little
bit of um bartering with multiple municipalities. Uh as you know, we got the SCBA breathing tank grant. Uh, one of the costs that we were going to need to do was upgrade our compressor air system in order to fill them. We found a system
that were able to obtain uh because the department didn't need a 5500 PSI system and they only needed the system that we had. We were able to do a little bit of um moving of puzzle pieces and now we have the system installed in the station
working and we didn't have to come to you for anything. Um, so decrease 70 to 50. And the main uh item on that firefighter equipment is uh our hose. Every year our hose has to be tested. Over the last couple years, we've had our hoses, you know, between 10 and 20
years old, and we're starting to have them uh fail on annual testing. So, this is just a replacement line item for hose. Um, and a couple radios for that. >> Are they still the canvas or are they the special ones? Uh so um rubber is the
supply lines and then they have a high heat uh attack line that you actually bring into the fire. But the ones that go from the hydrant to the truck are usually >> lighter weights. >> But we do have them for a hot air. Yeah. Because that was terrible what happened. >> Yeah. So so basically the mother from
the uh fallen firefighter has been pushing the high heat hoses and that's what we've been purchasing. We haven't bought anything in years but that will will be purchased when we do it. Um and then the OIC vehicle. So looking
at our equipment list, uh my goal is to optimize the use and life of vehicles. Uh currently, um our car 3, which is used as our OIC vehicle or officer in charge vehicle, is a small uh SUV. Uh 2018 uh 65,000 miles on it. It's
starting to have some electrical issues, have to be jumped, and that's okay if it's my car or something like that. Uh, but for something that needs to start in an emergency, um, I think it needs to be on the radar to replace. Um, what I think we should do is the squad one,
which is our forestry truck, is actually a pickup truck. It's a beautiful pickup truck that sits in the basement with forest fires. I would like to repurpose that as the OIC vehicle and then find a used DPW truck to use in the woods because that does not have to be as mechanically sound and it's going to go
in the woods. It's going to be high likelihood to be dented, dings, scrapes. Um, and I think that's a better use of funds. So when I say replacement of the OIC vehicle, it is uh sourcing a used vehicle, repurposing the forestry so we
can get a better use of our money that was spent on a pickup truck that is a 20 21 with 8,000 miles on it. So >> was was Essex looking for a new forestry truck? >> So they uh Essex has a uh >> No. Well, they have a $200,000 forestry
truck. Then they just did did a same idea. They got a used DPW truck as a second for >> Okay. I thought we could sell them ours. >> So, um, so basically it's it's playing musical vehicles a little bit, but I wanted to be clear that it's not it's to
optimize life expectancy of a vehicle so we actually have a return on invest spend a little more time on it. >> Yeah, sure. Well, I I wanted to tell you what it was so then we can go back to the list. >> I think I understand. >> Okay. >> So, as you go down this list, so engine number one.
>> Yep. That's our primary pump front. Primary pump we gather. Okay. So, since my memory is failing me, did we It went from I see >> what year
>> that's a 2011. >> Trying to read this intelligently. So, >> okay. It's it's 11 vehicle. It's our primary. Got it. >> Then we have the Lynfield engine. So, this is as of uh nine o'clock this
morning. Uh so, we've been housing a Linfield engine for them during their um housing. >> I mean, we've been we've been >> we've been using it. >> They needed to house it because they didn't have room for it during they're building two fire stations. So, we are
housing it and using it. Uh they requested that back now that the stations are built, but they said we have a sister truck that's a little it's built the same year, a little bit more maybe a lot more tired. It's a little bit more tired. Um we were able to uh purchase that for $100.
So that was that occurred. Um the goal with that is basically get us through until the new one arrives in a year and a half. >> It's a year and a half. That's what I did. >> Yeah. So, it's July 1 of >> 27, which is fiscal 28.
>> So, that >> we're only going to have one engine. >> We're going to have We have two. We're going to have >> two in the past. >> We've always had historically we've always had two. We've had two two engines. Even when I was here back in >> happened to the second engine we had.
>> I mean, we we're housing the Lynfield engine. Right. Right. >> So, What happened to our second engine? We've always had a second engine. >> That was before I got here and we were down to >> referring to the squat three.
>> No, no. Is that Was that our second? >> It was our second engine. It It had a It had a >> The cute one. Yes. >> Yeah. It was It was Yeah, it was the cute one. Uh that pumping requirement, but >> we did. >> That was before I got here.
>> Y Okay. Yeah, >> that was that was a strategy of a prior >> Yeah. that we needed smaller equipment to get up all the driveways, >> right? >> Yeah. >> After the university lane get to that. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um so anyway, could you talk about ambulances?
>> Yeah. So we currently uh have a single ambulance to the ambulance one. That's our primary. We have one on order that actually it's ordered and should be here. >> One is not primary. You say it's the second. Well, in fiscal year 27, u it
should actually be half colored because our new one will be here. Wait, we're in fiscal year 26, right? >> Yeah. So, fiscal year 27, it will be secondary because we're getting one between May and July. We've already ordered it. It's in process of being built. >> We've only had one ambulance for quite a while.
>> I do understand that. >> Now, we're going to two. >> Yes, [clears throat] there's went back to two. Going back to >> the new one and then the ambulance one becomes ambulance number two because it's older. >> Yeah.
>> So we've got so number two I mean ambulance number two will become essentially the primary that's the one on order to to be delivered >> and our intent is to have two that are functioning operational at all times.
>> Yeah. Because even if we have to do an oil change, we don't have an ambulance in time. Like you know, even just small mechanical stuff and that's 70% of our call volume. >> Thank you. >> Y [snorts] >> just a question on two ambulances. What
what's your guess on the annual um you know sort of like certification, maintenance, all that to keep two ambulances running? Is it >> 10 grand or is it 90 grand? I would say I would say last piece, we already had the equipment. So right now we're running paramedic equipment on uh an
engine company. We're just moving that equipment to the ambulance so that way we can actually transport to the hospital and get receivable. So we're not buying any equipment. We're just buying the vehicle. We have the equipment to move into it. So there's no added um consumable costs, if you will,
minus oil change or >> we're still paying 400,000 for a vehicle with nothing in it. Uh yeah, it's absolutely it's a tin box with an engine and six wheels. It's absolutely >> tell you emergency one is one of our customers. You would not believe what it
cost to build a fire truck >> like a tank from the ground up. It's unbelievable. >> And what do we have in the reserve to fund for replacements? What's the balance? >> So currently there's 3 uh 325
Yes. 325,000 in the account. I had proposed doing 350 this year and then 350 next year which would be the final payment for it. Um there's some debate back and forth whether it's better just to do the 700 next year as the final and
I don't know all you guys obviously know the inner workings of how that works out for >> Well, we're expecting to have more money next year. >> Yeah. >> And you're expecting to do 350 this year though? >> No, I didn't. So, I had put in 350 and then that's kind of like a light gray
color because they're going to or light peach color, I guess. And what does that mean? >> That just means going to be zero and it's going to be 700 next year. >> So, we are funding the 350. I don't >> It's not It's not in the capital budget.
>> Fully agree with you. And I think that the hope is that next year if we don't have the 420 oped payment and we're paying 350k out for retirement premiums out of the oped trust that maybe we'll have enough money >> to buy an ambulance and do this over
here and do that over there. Um the so the one thing with the firet truck is um last it [snorts] would be December of the year ago December is when we signed the contract for the engine and in the source wall agreement basically just
says that it has to go to get out of the contract it just has to be voted down at town meeting. So it's just we're obligated to bring it to town meeting for the delivery of FY January 1st of 27 FY28. >> This is engine what? Uh uh this is the
new engine, the Yes. Uh the one that we already have the 325 in the bank for because what we ended up we were able to do it for 900,000 versus if we waited to do it, it's going to be like one which is still >> so we've already fully paid for the
>> ambulance is paid. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> So does that become a warrant article to that? We just have to vote like a >> next year. >> Yeah. Yep. >> Number 27, you know. >> Yeah. Next year. Whether it be whether it be pre-cash funded or we're borrowing
for it. I don't we don't know that yet. But it didn't make sense. We don't have the free cash for the 350 this year. We're going to ask to borrow for 350 this year or or even the full amount when we have all these other needs. So
um we just said let's push it off to next year and go for the >> the vehicles. >> My feeling is these are sort of operating costs, >> right? >> I don't like to borrow.
>> Let's make them make the people pay the taxes that if we got a big, you know, we're going to build a school or something, let's borrow for that. But I don't know about borrowing for an ambulance. I don't I don't like that
idea. >> Well, I think we we've never done that historically. Yeah. >> No, we overrode the ambulance. >> What are the cars? >> Um look like >> So the OIC one is uh the red one you see probably around. Um that's what the
officer >> truck. >> No, it's SUV. We don't The only truck we have is the squad pickup. That is the forestry. >> Okay. >> We were running that during the winter storm. We took this forestry unit off because we wanted >> uh the assistant chief vehicle is actually an old police car that we um
grab that they were going to turn in. Um and then my car. >> Yep. >> So what's the total number of vehicles including the fire? >> Looks like >> uh including the new ambulance coming in is 10 but as well as the ATV side by
side. um little four um >> ATV thing, right? One >> Yeah. 10 including the UTV with the new ambulance included. >> Yep. >> Um just question. What's the what's the rationale for two engines? >> Um one
>> because one, we have areas in town that don't have hybrids. So the engines have to we have to relay pump. Each engine can basically pump a thousand feet worth of hose. So basically you put them in t in line in order to access all those places that don't have hydrants. Um and
then same thing is if one's down for maintenance because these are it's not the old days when it was all like non-computerized. There are so many computers in them that they break all the time. So it's basically redundancy. So we can um we can't we don't want a redundant line of truck and redundant
pump makes sense. >> The truck that we sold I don't know three years ago or I can picture it. We didn't get much for it as I recall, but we got something. So, but the Lynfield truck then replaced that I guess because we borrowed that and
happened it happened to fit with their needs because they didn't have a fire station. So, they said we can't [clears throat] store it anyway. >> Yeah. So, a lot of that stuff was in progress when I came when you showed up when I came. Um, >> but we're back. This as is just like the
staffing. This is where Manchester needs to be unless we have some significant change in occupancy type hazards like that. >> Do you have a UT UTV or an ATV? >> UTV. Uh we bought off Facebook Marketplace
>> because the police has an extra ATV, right? Because they replaced it with a UTV. [clears throat] >> Yeah, they got a grant. They got a grant for that. And that's the other thing too is, you know, same thing with the emergency management. I was going to say is we've been very fortunate to be get a lot of grants. So, especially for like
sheltering supplies, uh things like that, we've been very fortunate to get grants to offset a lot of these costs. So, um you're not seeing those reflected in your operating budgets because we're fortunate to be what are the grants?
>> Just one question. And I know um you guys pump more oxygen than water these days, but it's probably for the DPW. Are the hydrants okay in town? >> I know we have an ongoing maintenance, but it is it in your view is the user of these things are
>> they've gotten significantly better. Uh and we've identified, you know, through testing and things like that, areas that are on the list to do. Um, and all these things, equipment, training, uh, that now we're able to do in-house on duty because we have the staff to do it. Um,
as well as the water system, all this affects the insurance rating, too. So, once all the people and stuff come into town, I'm going to invite the ISO to come in and do another evaluation of our rates. And we're going to see a significant increase uh or increase in
score, decrease in rates uh based upon the improvements we've made both in our water system, training, equipment, and staff. >> Do we have a list of places where we should be adding hydrants? >> Uh I have a list where there's no hydrants. So yes, [laughter]
>> I mean we have a plan. >> Well, I think some >> hydrants where they don't exist where we have a public water supply. I have to defer a check on that one. >> Okay. >> So, we just know when a call comes in a plus on a screen like >> no hydrant. >> No hydrant and we have assets come
automatically with a tanker and we have the resources to set up for uh relay pumping called >> I thought we had water. >> We're We've gotten a lot better. They've added the loop on uh Jersey Lane, the King uh second street king's way. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Kings Way. There was uh a couple areas up towards um uh end of Brook Road. It's got decreased water pressure uh some of the upper part of Jersey Lane. Um there's
>> Oh, so that lose the water because they can add hydrants. >> Correct. >> Yeah. So it has to do with the pressure and you can't have stagnant water sitting there based upon amount of usage and all stuff I have no idea about. So I get defer. >> All right. There's a coralary to that comment. If that discussion is had and
you get the hydrants in the right spots, you can probably drop down to one engine. >> Um, >> I'm looking at longer term. I mean, that's not something you solve in two or three years. >> So, so another conversation to have in future years is
um collaboration of resources. And I'll just leave it at that. >> We've chatted about that a little bit. Um, so there there are bigger discussions to be had that might help that same thought process come to fruition. >> Yep. >> So you might want to make sure that Essex and you don't schedule a ladder
maintenance on the same day. >> We already we we do that. We make sure we Yeah. >> And same thing with the annuals like we move things around and make sure >> and just on simpler things. So, the two squad vehicles, just give me the >> one's a pickup truck with a give you and
the other one is a small UTV ATV type vehicle >> and the repurposing the squad one would be come car 3 and then we find a used VW truck or something. That's >> Thank you. >> We don't need to have a $50,000 pickup
truck sitting in the waiting for a brush fire. Thank you. That's I just rather get better lights out of the vehicles. painted [snorts and clears throat] from yellow to red all the time. >> That's [laughter] black utility
>> just because few people like the corner are completely What's a UTV versus an ATV? >> Utility. So it has a pickup truck bed on the back versus just your single. >> Okay. >> Fun Run is the ATV. utility has some
type of bed or per purpose, I guess. >> So, we finished with the fire, too. >> Yes. Thank you. >> I think so. Thank you guys. >> Thank you for coming. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks. >> Should I wait to
parks and red? I have no PowerPoint presentation, so at that time probably not for those 90 minutes. >> You But you wrote us a terrific memo. Thank you very much. >> Good. I was hoping that would help. [clears throat] Um, >> you helped me a great deal.
>> You know what? Sometimes if you just see the the positives and the negatives in the same place, it helps, right? >> Y. >> So, actually, you guys probably enough to keep them feeling informed. That way we can make really bad decisions.
>> Um, so I'm open to do this either way. We can go page by page or you guys can just ask questions. Um, I don't have as many changes I don't think as as fire does. Uh, but first page. Can you
can you kind of explain to us the personnel you have and what budgets they cross if they do? I mean, you've got
>> Yes. You got parks and wreck, you got singing beach, you know, and and I don't know if you have distinct people in each department or some people cross lines. For instance, you cross lines.
>> Yes. Because >> And is your salary cross between the two budgets? >> Um, no. >> Yes. Use all of them. So um but for
>> I mean simply this just two full-time year on staff >> okay >> myself and Heather Depri um >> she's the program coordinator >> right so and the director of the after school program which is one of the many programs but most
>> and so some of her salary comes out of that revolving account >> right okay >> yep and then all other staff is actually sorry we do of one other who is year round um but she is paid out a revolving
fund because she works at the after school program. >> So she is year round then in the summer she works at the playground program. >> Okay. >> Other than that everyone's seasonal part time >> for a specific for a specific program. >> Right.
>> Occasionally if I get lucky I get somebody who works more than one. They may work the after school program and then also work at bleach because it's their off season. Um yeah or they work at the after school program. They work the playground
program just technically both um the one point person who you know does some of the cleaning and there so that's the one
on staff. So the program coordinator is changed. >> She her hours moved up. Andrea can help me too. Uh so she went from she was at 32 then she went to 35 now she's at 40 hours a week. Um so
program has really programming has really also gone up. Um that's why her plus her longevity is gone up this year. Been here 18 years. Um the union some union negotiations
happen. So that's part of our increase that cover everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. 15 job itself change as far as how it's coded.
>> Yes. Grade >> increase. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> When the real stuff was done. >> Yes. >> Okay. Not just steps and whatever. She's taken on more responsibility too
as Cheryl's uh taken on more responsibility in the team leader position was crucial for uh rack health and COA. Some of Cheryl's responsibilities have trickled down uh and Heather's picked those up as she
grabbed new responsibil is that that's okay. Okay. That's what I thought generic when it was explaining a lot of details. What's going on with the singing beach salaries? Like looking
from 2024, >> we not parks and wreck. >> Okay. >> Page 66. It's a separate budget from seeing beach. Okay. Yeah, >> I have just a question about the email
thing you sent out and maybe it's just my math, but when I was adding up the revolving fund revenue, [clears throat] >> it didn't quite line up and I was wondering, is that timing? Is this a fiscal year operational year thing going on?
>> What do you look at that did not line up? the um the memo that Cheryl sent out to all of us this afternoon earlier um >> was the revenue um >> it talks about the the revolving fund
um income history and the revolving fund revenues of 646,322 and when I just kind of went through and added up the playground revenue and uh Tux Point, Pearl Chapel,
everything. It didn't quite get there. And I was wondering if that was because of timing. >> Recreation receipts. >> If you look at the revenue in the budget book, the recreation receipts equals the 646 320,
>> which is what she has. >> So, I'm just looking at the the email we received. >> Yes. then talks about revolving fund income of 646,000 and I thought when I added up those various things they they came up a couple hundred thousand short.
>> Yeah. So what Cheryl did is she said you want to be >> speak go right ahead. >> Um she broke up the revolving fund into the different sections. So that first one that has the revolving fund revenues from 646. It's just for the recreation receipts and then if you scroll down a little bit then there's a playground
revenues. Got it. all the way in the revolving fund and that as um just a playground receipt. So she was kind of trying to break out by like cost center. >> Got it. Okay. >> Right. Thanks. >> Yes. Cost center.
I >> have a have a question from somebody who's an freshman. Um that is what is the history of the revolving fund? the history that I know um your group
was prior to me being here but um that is the uh the history of it in Manchester you mean not why do we have for revolving fund for parks and wreck and not for DPW or I don't know
>> now we want to get into the legalities of it then um so it is a fund that was created for for recreation not just for state federal I don't for that program. Money could be paid in and paid out, but you can never exceed
obviously what you're running in, right? Um, >> so the revenue was fees paid by particip town residents who participate in the programs >> in different programs and that was a way to kind of get programs started when they first started a recreation
department without using any taxpayer money to get started. What does I think >> what happens to the balances carried over? Are balances carried over? Positive balances are carried over. >> Yes. >> Isn't that part of the benefit of a >> But what happens to them?
>> What happens to them? >> Some use them. >> Some goes back to the general fund. Um, >> it does. Okay. >> Yeah. Some goes back to the general fund. >> Oh, so it doesn't carry over. >> Some carries over. some pays back pays back for salaries for like Heather the
program >> but but if there is something left over after you've repaid expenses got it at the end of the fiscal year what happens to that >> it gets rolled over in the revolving fund >> it gets rolled over at so my question is
what happen how do we spend the revolving fund positive balances or what is there something here you're proposing about that I'm not Sure. >> Yes. Let Andre speak to that. >> I speak to that. So, um, another reason
why we set up a revolving fund is due to timing, especially for like say for instance after school program or the summer camp program is really the best, um, example. So, we charge the fees, you know, in what March, May, May, June, May, June or so. But then we spend that money, um, after the fiscal year and
things like that. So, money carries over. Um we do have in the our estimated receipts uh money from the revolving fund to pay back the general fund for um salaries and things like that. Um if the balance does get um accumulated, we
usually have some kind of capital that um we have on our list that we're going to do. We use some of the revolving fund for the Pine Street Field. Um anything related to the recreation that'll support those programs um and activities that the revolving fund >> So it goes into a capital project of one
sort or another. Yeah, >> you know the funds can be accumulated that way. Yes, >> depending on the program activity. >> You look confused and it might be because I keep getting mixed up. What does your work be for the new artificial
carpeting? >> Sorry, they happen at the same time. Yes, sorry the schooling >> that's because we have a lot of programs obviously on our field because the rel
the expense has to be related to the programs >> just curious was there seed money that was put into that when this was formed 15 years ago whenever and then did that get paid back or you don't know or >> I'd have to look
>> usually at town meeting if you remember like in we have a Warner article say like the revolving fund could spend up to x number of dollars. So really could go into a deficit of that amount of dollars as long as you expect that money to come in. Um so it could be like a timing thing that yes the money came in and
then we spent it or they spent some money to get the program started that eventually did get paid back. So >> when when we started the health revolving fund there was no seed money that went into it. Just you just went >> an authorization up to a certain amount and they had to collect them
>> from the insurance companies. Yeah. >> They caught up and then you were fine. >> Yes. >> And show are there capital one or more capitals proposed out of the revolving fund for the for this year for the >> We don't have one proposed right now. Now
>> unfortunately well two things are capital projects that are in the pipeline are not related to programs. is related to like the beach or we could maybe stretch Sweeney Field but the amount of money that's there isn't enough right now anyways of
what we >> but there was a scene in beach bath house plumbing which we didn't to I think that's not intended to go forward >> but these programs are not at the beach >> right >> right these this playground >> let's say so >> the need for like the playgrounds to be
crowned so they drain easier that that's like a maintenance thing. Is that more of a facilities facility thing? >> That's something we really there's a hole there because it's so easy to make that drain better instead of the puddle stay, >> you know, to the mud.
>> But it's a matter of crowning the field. We should be able to throw some comp. >> We just do finances. >> We don't do fields. >> What does the town need? a recreational need.
>> So, are there questions on this parks and wreck? That always in expenses. >> Has there been ever been a year, Cheryl, where it's gone negative? You know, like >> you're back on revolving fund. >> Yeah. Back like Singing Beach is just had a ton of rain or nobody signed up
for >> kids sports. >> Singing beach is not revolving fund. >> No. >> Okay. >> That that is budget. >> Oh, the the other fund. No. Even during COVID where um we couldn't run a lot of programs and all we did have enough of the little pushing or rollover that we
were able to still pay some of the staff and managed to get. >> How do you determine your fee level? >> Um we compare it to other towns and also we try to keep it on like a 7030 split that we're making 30% of whatever we're
charging. >> Okay. Okay. >> Goes back for admin and whatever else. which is pretty standard for most departments. >> When you think of insurance that we're paying for the town, does that how does that fit into this equation or is that
like two totally separate buckets? Because I'm sure there's an insurance issue with all the things we're doing with parks and wreck. That's not a negative. It's just the cost doing business. >> That's part of the U money that I estimate in the um estimator receipts for fees. Um we take that from the
revolving fund and give that to the general fund to cover the insurance. Um any other like >> like overhead kind of stuff? >> Yes, overhead stuff like things like that. >> What is the balance in the revolving fund?
>> 650 daily. >> Yeah, I see the history and all of that, but I just wonder what the balance was. >> Sorry. >> Oh, no. Andrew is looking at daily. >> Yes. It's about 600,000 right now.
>> 600,000 sitting in revolving. >> No, but the problem is is they're collecting fees. >> Mhm. >> And then they're providing the services and they >> question I'm askingly remove the they don't charge the salaries immediately to that fund.
>> So, she's just giving you a dollar amount. She hasn't charged all the expenses yet to it. >> I have not. >> So I'll rephrase the question. There's a plus made each year. >> Yes. >> At least from what I understand Mory's question not that must accumulate into a
carryover [clears throat] that's plus that's not immediately charged. And I'm trying to find out what is the rough amount that's in there that I might consider is the excess >> net worth. Am I making sense? the net worth that the park didn't
was asking about does it ever go negative. >> Yeah, you have to do an analysis of that because it depends on like the number of programs um what you're charging for the programs like if if we collected pre-collected for the you know summer camp program um how the afterchool
programs been um collecting things like that. >> The answer is we don't look at that. That's almost why I did the history just because >> well I see the history >> even though it's a snapshot it's kind of the best snapshot you can get >> easiest thing to ask is what's your lowest point in the year typically in
November >> I would need >> July I mean this goes up and down there's quiet there's not a lot of programs going on >> so carried over though an amount is carried over every >> I got it so it goes up and up and up and
up. >> Just wondering what it was. Yeah. >> When you decided to spend part of it on the Pine Street Field, >> Brook Street, sorry. >> Brook Street, how did you calculate >> Perfect question. >> The excess. >> Yes. >> Was available to spend on. >> Thank you. That's that's just what I'm
trying to get at. >> Yeah. So at at that time we were looking at different funding sources and um we reviewed that >> um going back years >> um and decided okay this is how much you expect to spend in the next you know three four five six months y
>> and like what would Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yep. So, is it fair to say, Andrea, if you took an average of the revolving fund on the 30th of every day of the month for the whole year, 12 12 months, it would
be something like 650,000. That's kind of the number that's sitting there. And it goes up and down like the tide, but at the end of the year, the average is 650 grand. >> Wow. >> That's a huge number. >> It is. >> Wow. That's just >> you could spend a couple hundred
thousand bucks on something and you'd still be well in the black. >> It has to be revolving fund program related. >> Okay. >> So don't go get any ideas. [laughter] >> That's what that's what we're paid big bucket to do here.
>> Buy a fire truck. >> Well touch point. >> I had a a question that residents keep asking me if we charge people uh passes to go on the beach in the summer.
Shouldn't we be charging dogs in the winter because there's a lot of defecation and everything? You know, there's some maintenance associated with sticks down there to monitor dogs. Is it additional income that we go missing? >> Possibly. Yeah,
>> please. Yeah, >> I don't know how you would you collect enough to >> pay the person who's sitting there >> freezing [clears throat] cold. >> I don't see it as a as a a good um business venture. >> However, if if we got a parking system
in place that charged a nominal fee for parking in the winter, >> especially for non-residents, that could be the way to get it. >> Yeah. to do the parking lot. >> It seems to be a busy popular thing for out of town. So,
>> plenty of room for snow. >> Sorry to keep eating this dog. >> But, um, so in 23 this was this revolving fund was about 450,000. 24 it was 536 and then it's jumped up over
100,000 from 24 to 25. just extrapolating sunny beach days over the next 3 years. >> This thing's okay. Well, I mean, so lots and lots of kids coming into lots and lots of programs. Excuse me, I'm screwing that up. I mean, we may be at
seven or $800,000. What >> What's our plan? >> What do we do with this? I mean, is this something we talk with the town at a town meeting and say, can we get some latitude to put this into capital or I mean eventually?
>> I also want to just note too like that these balances that she has like are fiscal year end so they end in June 30th. Um so we what year did you switch um when you collected for the summer? >> Um well we started collecting earlier.
Well, it kept kind of getting earlier and earlier when we would take in the fees for the summer. Um, >> because I feel like that all that money is sitting right there, but is going to be spent in July and August. >> So, when do you when do you charge the
revolving fund for the expenses and the salaries that are attributable to the programs? When do you actually charge it against this revenue? It is continuous, but she's saying, for example, like the summer program, the
entire summer, somebody might pay $1,500 in to sign up in May for the early bird special, >> but we have we're not spending any of that money on our staff or any of that until July and August. >> But but if like your program director coordinator, >> yeah,
>> that entire salary comes out of the revolving account. >> Not the entire amount. >> Why not? Uh because the revolving fund rules. >> It's a revolving fund. What >> rules? >> Rules like laws. >> Rule. Yeah. House rules.
>> I can I could I mean I could do a presentation on what a revolving fund is and the different ones because it's like >> I'm just trying to find out what's in there that's not committed because I think it's could be a very substantial amount of money. >> It is, but it's it's really can only be spent on program related. Why not spend
it on something else which is why we don't like revolving funds because a much better appreciation of why we don't like revolving funds because I think there's a lot of money in there that ought to be used on recre whatever is permitted under the rules
>> and that money is just sitting there and that's not the way we done. Could we could we have a policy where if the amount gets so high that we take a reduced rate in >> the rates we use the excess rather than
>> we didn't use it. >> So to be honest that was a bigger jump >> from one year to the next than I expected because we we took more kids in our after school program. That is a very successful in program. Um so we are
working on doing more staff raises which was telling Andre the other day, apparently kids don't want to start working at $8 an hour like I did when I started working at the uh summer playground program. So those kinds of things because the
revolving funds staff rates don't have to come here. Now we know we can afford more. So we can put on more staff. We can we can have more at the after school program or at the summer playground we didn't before. We got um Uber Fund
grants for things that maybe we couldn't be sure we were going to get them. So, you know, it's not reflected in the fees. But then now this year, we know for playground, hey, we don't really need to go up as much as we thought we need to. We can keep it under $200 for
full day, for a full week. Um keep it affordable and we can afford that. But until the money's there, we don't know that. >> You're hearing enthusiasm at our end of this whole thing. It's just that >> I'm just afraid you got to take it away. So you're going to for you to provide us
with analysis of the various programs and the money coming in for a specific program against the costs that are charged to that program. because it
seems to me like your summer playground is a program where money comes in at various times and expenses but yet it's it's over a concise period of time. >> We're using that example that's the one
that's spreads the gamut of the fiscal year really it's the after school program that >> I'm talking summer playground. >> Yeah. So summer playground we're using as example but that's really not our biggest money making. >> Okay. It's the after school program. which is summer and school year or just
school year. >> Yeah. So if if there's some way of looking at the revenue that comes in for the afterchool program and what the expenses are attributable to that that would give us a better feel the delta.
>> So maybe I mean I don't know if this is an easy thing to do. My question earlier is if you average the revolving fund every month and that's the average, what's the delta, how low does it go and how high does it go? And and I think
what we're kind of asking is when you when you figure out how low it goes, what's that number? >> You know, we want [clears throat] to take the money away. Is there a way to use that a little better? You know, like if it if the lowest number is 300K,
could we use 150K or 200K to fix some stuff or do some stuff better? Let it sit there. >> Is that a category that was >> just, you know, I know it's a cushion, you know, but we're all here to make sure things don't go red, you know. That's >> yeah.
>> Yeah, it was >> nice that we I think it was 500 that we used when we for the field and not everything is applicable, >> right? >> But it was nice that it was there when we really needed it too, you know, >> or something like that.
>> We don't like to store our fund. >> That's right. >> Although the general fund gets the interest income on it, >> right? Oh, yeah. What's the alternative? What's the alternative though? >> I mean it's a revolving fund >> be able to identify capital items.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That can be paid from that revolving fund. >> Yeah. >> Um >> so for example like CPC might be able to do something teamed up with this to do something that we've been trying to do for a long time. you know, if we can't
quite get over the corner on a playground improvement or something like that, CPC can do X and we can deploy a little bit of this and move it home. >> Yeah. >> Think with like the Swedey Park project, which you know the list for a long time,
we're not going to get two or three million in the rain fund, but it could be a partnership with CPC or something to kind of get over the finish line. >> Yep. >> I'm not trying to take it away. I'm wondering if we should do a revolving fund for like the launch so that we
don't have to pay for >> We don't want to do revolving funds because then we can't get the excess money out. >> Well, we just don't want to have to let put all this money in their capital. >> Okay. >> I I just like >> spend all night on that
on a budget. But one last I I'd like to say I' I'd like to celebrate the fact >> that our our moms and kids are enjoying these programs and obviously they're supporting them which is a good sign. >> Thank you guys. what I was looking for.
>> And so, I mean, I think those are the kinds of things and maybe, you know, even our town administrator could put that in a newsletter and just say, "By the way, did you know?" >> Yeah. >> That we have a place that, you know, a
9-year-old can go after school, >> which is pretty damn good. I mean, [clears throat] very nice. Well, I will say all the real estate offices in town know and as people are moving through town, people know, you know, and it is one of the things people
>> are that the program is full at the present time, but >> and it's not taxpayers paying in to make this happen. It's >> right >> kind of does itself, >> right? [snorts] >> Kind of thing pretty good. No, they're all trained to
>> they're all trained. So, how about >> I'm ready parks and wreck >> salary's in expensive budget in the amount of 2006, 966.
>> So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Our second. Any more discussion on topic? [clears throat] >> No. vote. Gar, >> yes. >> Dean, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Lori, >> yes. >> Peter, >> yes.
>> And Sarah votes yes. >> Okay. I don't know the way this is set up, I flip it the wrong way. >> Parks and wax, singing, beach, and lifeguards. So now to switch over kind of to my memo
um just to relate to this or if you want to just go to the one who voted anyway so I don't have to talk about it. Um but I just wanted to note that every fall is up to park and w committee that we go over um all the different rates
and fees that we have. Um this past fall we did vote to put up the parking fee. Um, as everyone knows, that does not affect residents. This is the Monday through Friday non-resident parking fee to $35. Um, and we decided not to move
up move up the walk-on fee, the $10 daily walk-on fee just due to we are trying to get credit cards there and there will be credit card fees coming. So, we kind of stagger that and let people pay their own credit card fees along with the $10. So, that's
going to move the price up on its own. >> So, you're going to be charging more than $10 to cover the credit card. >> We'll be charging 10, but they'll be paying the extra. >> Oh, I didn't know. >> We're still working on that. >> Okay. >> Well, you know how if you paid your taxes on them, you're paying the credit card fee, >> right? Whatever.
>> That's why I don't pay on that. >> I know, right? >> Why? >> But you'd be surprised. I mean, I'm, you know, you'd be surprised how many people would rather just pay the fee because a lot of them now are using the ATM there. >> Yeah. which is maybe a $3 fee, right? Anyways, so um but even just, you know,
adding on the $5 to the parking fee um will potentially bring in another seven or $8,000 for that, you know, for the non-resident parking. Um but essentially, the beach pays for itself and then also has extra
when it's all said and done. press. [laughter] >> I don't get to keep that in my revolving fun. Not to be confused. >> And you indicated so you increased lifeguard salaries >> a little bit. Yeah. >> Are they at a reasonable level now or
you going to have to increase it again next year? >> Um I'm always stuck between little bit little increases every year or a bigger increase all at once. So I try to go with a little bit each year to be honest. >> I mean
here as opposed to waiting three years to come in and say no I need five months a person an hour more. >> Has there been any um complaints about whether we need to have lifeguards at White Beach or Black Beach or anywhere else or is it just
>> say complaints and occasionally somebody will ask about White Beach. Um >> we certainly hear about it. Yeah, >> I have more so on like uh >> not from somebody who goes there, somebody >> staffing not not necessarily lifeguard
though, right? It's more like staffing and >> overight lifeguard. >> I'm wondering if we could use some of this budget and other beaches as well. There is an impression on rainy days that there's a lot of people hanging
around, but I know you can't just lay them on, >> right? And especially the lifeguards are usually college kids. And I can't say, "Well, you're going to work anywhere from 16 to 40 hours each week depending on the weather, you know, >> once they make a commitment to us, we
have a commitment to them." >> Just a question. >> You can't extend the period that you have life. No. You mean like be before Memorial Day or after Labor Day?
>> Yeah. >> I would say no because even on Labor Day, we usually have two lifeguards left and two lifeguards is not enough to guard that beach. >> Open baths. after Labor Day
>> before New Orleans. >> Usually all the staff goes back to school, but for some weekends with a bigger budget, I could look at it. >> It's just very restrictive. I mean, that beach is one of our best assets.
>> Actually, to not have a bath house available for a longer period of the year to me is a disservice to the residents of the T. So, part of the new bath house fortified because I've had bad experiences clean. >> Yeah. Well, part of the uh project we
are looking at with the bath house is to have it be able to have the main section of it with with real bathrooms open similar to like how Tux Point. >> Fantastic. Open. >> That is wonderful. >> That would be good. Yeah. said no to that project this year, but you know,
you guys are in charge of the capital. So, Olen and Lewis is doing a project. >> I think we have a chance of finding it. >> Yeah, [laughter] I can't use a revolving fund, though. >> But yeah, no, I I think I really think that that we should get that on the capital budget next year because
>> that bath house is >> is not in good repair. >> It's a disgrace. >> It's a disgrace. And the the beach is a gem. And you know, you go there and you know, you want to stay till 6
and it's closed. You don't have a bathroom to use. You don't have a shower to use. >> And you pay $10. >> I usually open till 6:45. >> The other thing I think >> it varies. >> It varies.
>> It stops fun. I think we we just replaced the sewer service line at the end of the summer. >> Um, >> good broke on July 3rd. >> I was going to say sewer not working at Singing Beach is a revenue problem.
>> Well, it's a staffing revenue. >> It's a septic, right? >> The waterline. >> But also loose is working on a design for a new building. >> Oh, good. >> Oh, good. not like a whole building, but
you know, >> to CPC, >> so I tried. I did apply. >> Um, I just had a quick question. The the memo you sent around earlier under fiscal year 25 it there's a thing
non-resident parking 1549. Is that the number of cars that have parked? >> Yes. >> Okay. And then down below it says walk-ons 850 or 851. Is that is that how many people walk on the beach in the summer? >> So, >> I would have thought it would have been more, but >> Well, it is. So, um
>> Well, it's an early burn. >> I know. And once once Tony asked me about this, I should have changed it knowing others would ask. So, in that box under fiscal 25, but lined up with paid walk-on fees and season pass.
>> So, the 17320 is the daily $10 walk-ons. >> Okay. 1261 is the >> number of people who paid $35 and then the $851 is the people who bought the $25 early bird. >> So rough order numbers we're looking at
about 19,000 people. >> Yeah, >> it's good usage. >> Yeah, that's good usage, >> right? And that's not the season passes obviously are coming back coming, you know. >> Oh, that's that's impressive. >> That is impressive. I'm surprised
at the low number of season passes >> of the order ahead ones. >> No, >> of the Yeah, that has actually gone down. >> This is based on the number of residents we have. >> So season anyone can buy a season pass. The only people who can buy them the early bird are
>> right. But sort of residents >> even if it were all residents it is a low number. When the price went up the number of sales went down. So sometimes making something more doesn't always bring in more money. >> Well, that's okay. [clears throat]
>> You have to go four times a year for it to pay off. I don't think that, you know, my season pass. >> Well, for the early bird, for the $25 one, you just have to go more than twice, >> right? So, >> or be old.
>> Or if you're old, it'll be great. You don't need a pass at all. >> Yeah. >> Or young or young. Right. >> Do you feel like the beach is at capacity? I mean, on days when it's really, really sunny and the parking lot's filled up and people are getting
on and off the train and your staffing level is where it is, are we in balance or could you have another 30% people on the beach and not worry about that or what's your feeling on that? >> If I could pick the days, then I would
love another 30%. However, the days that it's 80 degrees, sunny, and a weekend or a holiday, there's some days I don't think we could fit one more person on there. There's been um some days that
it's hard to even keep up taking people's money. Um one day that was a real surprise was um Junth >> holiday. It was the first sunny hot day. Um, we had staffed as like a Friday, not
not a weekend weekend because sure how it like caught on yet. It was so busy that staff couldn't keep up. They couldn't keep up collecting money. They couldn't keep up cleaning the bathrooms. Uh, people were now yelling at them. The person next to me didn't
pay and I paid. I should get my money back. And so finally I was like at 2:00 I had to say stop collecting money. If we can't do it consistently safely and do drops, you know, they need to put the money away every hour or so, then we
need to just stop collecting and worrying about keeping the bathrooms clean, making sure things are safe, people. So on days like that, I say no, don't please don't send one other person, not one more train, but you know, a 70 degree day on, you know, even
typical Tuesday. Yeah. >> Like let the buses come. What's alarming is the number of days that like well Beach Street is a red line on Google Maps like because it's stop and go and it's just getting worse and worse. >> I have to say what cracks me up about
that is that um people will complain about that traffic and a lot of it's people spinning the beach. They don't go to the beach end road the beach that day. No, I didn't go. I was just spinning. You are the traffic.
>> Okay. Anything more on singing lifeguards? >> I have a motion to approve the singing beach and lifeguards total budget in the amount of 248798. >> So move second.
Any discussion? >> Bar. >> Yes. Yes. >> Andy. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Peter. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Carl. >> So again, we did look at the reads again this year. Um moved them up for the
memo. Um our syndicans are busier than weekdays. So figured we could charge a little bit more on weekends than we were. Yeah. Same thing. Do you increase it a little each year or or bigger chunk every other
year. So um we went up to 25 for residents and 50 for non-residents on weekends only because we want to encourage weekday use. >> Not so much. had the general question which is keeping note of the maintenance
on the building. I know that's a hard question because it's got lots of components to it but seems like a complicated building and the few times I've been in it and potentially very expensive to keep going. Do you have a general sense of that or
do I need to ask the DPW in terms of what >> probably asking DT DPW? They are um they're very reactive when I when there's things there that I need to have done. Um as for proactive I it's like you said it's very difficult building,
you know. Um I think I think we're doing all right. um you know, even when we did the big the last big rehab, there were things that we wanted to get done that we knew that would help in the long run, but didn't didn't get done like the big
heavy windows and all of that. And I believe that really has something to do with the maintenance as those big heavy windows are slamming down or they're, you know, coming up. So, there's some things we can't really help, but I do think that overall they're doing a good job on the maintenance. I think one of the things
Tony we need to look at is whether we have painting schedules for some of these buildings like that and my ducks point you know if we have a certain if we have a schedule that every certain number of years we have them
painted because I think that it's been hit or miss. It's like when they start looking really bad. Isn't that accurate? Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Sometimes we paint and people don't even notice that.
>> Exactly. >> Roofing that was done on Tux is awesome, you know, and that looks really really good. >> That does say as a >> person who looks at it regularly. >> The the crow chapel rental is only like 2680. It's like is that worth even
should we just put um antifreeze in the pipes if a thing for the winter? >> Right. >> Yeah. I mean, >> it's hard for to heat it. >> It's a constant um say battle because I'm not battling anyone, but it's
what do we want as a town chapel to be? >> I mean, that can't be more than 10 uses, but it's >> so we aim for 12 uses a year. We aim for one a month. And that was a kind of a soft agreement with the neighbors. Um, >> ironically just said to the selectman a
few days that we have a church that would like to use it every Sunday morning. Um, been bad. It is revenue that would be coming in, but that's a lot on the neighbors. >> Who cares? We spent over $700,000 rehabbing it. >> That's why it's going that's why it's going to the sweatboard
financially, right? >> So, are the neighbors the neighbors are not happy with the traffic? >> So, the neighbors have have not complained lately. So not I'm not saying that but when there are too many uses that's when so there was like a I mean
is that say a soft agreement for the once a month? >> Why would there be a soft agreement? >> Well I would thank you to the school parking lot for a church service. >> Yeah that's what what I was going to say is get in touch with the with the [clears throat]
>> schools and that upper parking lot. >> So that's on the list. So, so far the group has come to park and rec committee and then once we figure it out, we'll send a recommendation. Also, I actually haven't sent it to you guys yet because we're getting it together. And um part of that is that they would need to request from the school to use the back
parking lot on Sunday mornings. Um you know, they would need their own liability insurance and the town named insured. um what was the other things? Um they they would do their own cleaning because there would be no special cleaning, no
special snow removal beyond what we the town group normally do. Um so those were a few of the things we're trying to have them get together before they present to the select board. >> Okay. >> Just looking at I mean just looking at the heating bill I think the last couple
years is $12,000 in oil. I mean, I almost wonder if it's worth it to think about I don't know if there's gas available there, but get somebody in to change the system over to gas. >> Is there gas on school street? >> Yeah. >> School streets. >> I mean, if you look at this over 10
years, that number is probably approaching 90,000. >> Yeah. >> Is that a topic for the DBW? >> Is that going to facilities? >> I I do know that heat pump was brought up once there. Um I don't know if we
ever get a number that far to get an estimate or not discussed with neat facilities. >> Okay. Do I have a motion to approve Carl Chapel?
>> I second. I'll second. >> Dean second. Any more discussion? >> I I think we should ask the town administrator to look at Crow Chapel and just say, do we need to look at the heating costs?
Are we underutilizing something that is everybody agrees beautiful, >> beautiful, >> beautiful place? And um I I to expect the BPW to be proactive in addressing
these things or anybody else. It needs some sort of executive ship uh applied to it. And not that you don't have something else to do. I'm sure you >> I put it on my list, but uh I in the
area of discussion prior to the book, I' I'd like to just kind of suggest that a little bit. >> I I have it I have it as uh I had it as a note of something to discuss with like
the uh cultural council. It's not really revenue generating option, but at least place is getting some use. they could do they could probably come up with some good programming out of there. Um but >> so we did partner with the cultural
council in the library last year and allowed them to hold um their monthly um distinguished speaker series there. >> Yeah. Um, and they had a couple of really successful ones, but again, that does not re have a new generating, but they do. And the COA does a maybe three
or four, maybe six things there a year as well. And that's free, but it's a at least it's a ser a town service, you know, >> also town, >> right? So then it doesn't show up in the numbers, but it is more uses. Any more discussion?
>> No. >> Take a vote. Gar. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Andy. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And to explain this because it's kind of some things that just got thrown under my >> father. Yep. Just to clump things
together. >> Yes. Um I I spoke with Todd about the an estimate of the fireworks year for the police department and um [clears throat and cough] estimated $24,300. Um so I added that to the 10,000
27. >> That's over. >> Yes. >> So it's just moving over time from a police budget to this. That's why the overtime of the police went down over >> How much do the fireworks cost us?
>> $40,000 for the actual firework. Yeah. >> 60ish total >> for the parade and the fireworks. Yeah. So, celebration. >> We haven't thought of even less elaborate parade. That's not what anyone else asks.
[laughter] >> Do you know it's the 250th anniversary in this country? They're bigger and better than ever. [laughter] >> The police you need cuz you have to, you know, close the roads.
It's unbelievable, >> right? Whether it's a big parade or small parade, the police cost is probably going to be the same unless we make it just blocks and stuff. >> That's separate from here al together. Where where does that show up? >> So that's like another 20 to $30,000
that's >> part of fundraising >> which thank you for asking. There is a Fourth of July fundraiser coming up on March 7th. >> March to the fourth. Get your tickets. >> Okay.
Any discussion on this parts and other least we got rid of the freedom flowers. [snorts] That was a once and done thing. >> Oh, yeah. >> Was done just one year, >> right?
>> We had it in the budget and it wasn't spent. >> Do I have any motion to approve the parks and other budget in the amount of 37,300? >> Just I'm sorry. >> I have [clears throat] a question. Mayor, >> um let's take the motion and then we'll
take the question. Do I have a second to >> Andy says okay go ahead Peter >> remind memorial day why I'm sorry I I must have misread it. So Memorial Day for 300 is there even though it's well short of what it really
costs. That's that's forget it. I I'm all set. I I misread the >> Memorial Day is less than it costs. >> Well, honestly has it's not even anything to do with parks and wreck. the Legion, but they don't get >> or is it a DBW that plants flowers or
buys the flowers, the Legion plants? >> Well, those little poppies that >> on the lapels, >> the flags plantings at the cemetery, isn't it? >> Yeah. Collaboration between DPW and the Legion and kind of like helps um
anything that the Legion may need with the DP. All set. [clears throat] Okay. Yes. >> No. I'm voting yes. Yes. I'm voting yes, too. And >> yes. >> Yes. >> Peter. >> Yes.
>> Sarah votes. Yes. >> That it. >> That's it. I mean, unless you want. So, I have a just that's just the bath house that's been on the list and Sweeney Park that um working on plans
for that are in you know the next couple of years but not for this year. >> Rotunda >> and then there's the Rotunda. >> Yeah, that's Parks and Wreck DPW. Um,
and I I think that something that I saw an email from Jack today saying they're having a meeting next week. >> Yes. Uh, the 20 >> Monday is the last day for an amended agenda if we want to suggest that they
allocate 270,000 in cash towards the rotunda. >> Want to get it on the list? I don't know what what's um like we have some more time, you know. I know CBC is very eager to get it get it done and that's great. I love that.
>> Yeah, >> he wants to make progress on it, but >> we still have some additional conversations I think that we wanted to have here. >> Um, >> you know, I don't know. I haven't talked to Jack myself yet either, but the money
That's something we can get. I mean, seems like we could put it on and then take it off. It >> not to go down that, you know, not to go down that rabbit hole, but if if if we were, you know, if we have a discussion again about how we're going to handle
the rotunda, it could he could hold on to it and use it for debt service if we borrow through CPC. sometimes is >> he could do that. He could hold on to it and use that for debt service next year
if we wanted to go down that road. But >> yeah, my only reaction was is if he's if he's cutting off applications, it seems to me we might want to get one in for the 275 for the cash.
>> The deadline is December. >> It can come off the new deadline >> later if we were to make that decision just I I don't I mean I told him two weeks ago when we were discussing the ro agenda again
and then he went ahead and scheduled this meeting in advance of our discussion >> so maybe we could see if the committee will approve or vote to approve the 273 contingent upon everything else but at least it's a step >> 275 he also he also wanted to know
whether they were going to be whether they were going to vote on bonding through >> he didn't the email he sent that I saw today did not mentioned bonding it was just said do you want the 275 cash
>> yes please I didn't get that email >> I mean you want a motion question really decision but I think if our recommendation is yes I mean if we support it I guess that's questions
>> what's the formal mechanism for getting a request to CPC >> is to get it in by my left >> there's a one page >> I told him I'd be at I would go to the meeting I you know again we weren't planning on going down the having the larger
discussion again about Rotunda Um, the only reason why I've been hesitant about grabbing the cash now was that if we were to do if we were to keep the CPC rate the way it is, not advocate for an
increase and borrow the uh cost of the ratunda through CPC. That cash could be used to pay, you know, the first year of debt service instead of grabbing it now. or we could grab it now and offset the amount that
we have to borrow. Either either way, but I was hesitant to make a decision on that before talking with you all about. >> What I've heard via the great bond [clears throat] is that the majority of the CPC
does not necessarily support bonding the rotunda through the CPC. >> Well, we don't want it bonded, right? >> We don't want it. My question more is about if they've got 200,000 or 270,000 this year >> they want to give to us
>> as part of this year's >> let's do that >> CPC outlay >> why can't we use that one time >> totally separate the whole bonding issue >> just and that's the question is there a a mechanism that needs to happen for
that question >> just a matter of confusion at town meeting if you're going to bond through CPC for for ratunda and grab cash into it. >> I I think that the finance committee is
not in favor of bonding through CPC and I've heard that CPC is not in favor of bonding through CPC. >> I mean I haven't heard that from CPC and I think there's new information. Yeah. I mean >> did you didn't you guys discuss it in the CPC meeting? >> Yes. um they they were going either way,
but their concern was if we bond it through CPC that the whole program is hamstrung going forward because it's so much >> money to support the bond. >> It's >> we don't want to um increase the rate because the 17% isn't enough of a incentive.
>> I agree. >> Yeah. new information since the last discussion we were talking about when we were dealing with the school budget and OPED reappropriating funds that were previously allocated and
then lumping that into the borrowing amount which added to the amount that we were borrowing which created more of a hamstring. >> But now >> those things have changed. We don't necessarily need to reappropriate as much >> or any >> or any.
>> Yeah. um which is a lesser impact on CPC and a zero >> it's zero impact to your tax bill. >> That's a but it doesn't matter Tony if you don't spend it on C on the bonding for the rotunda you're buying something
else. So you can't say it's a zero impact on the tax bill. The cost of the rotunda is the cost of the rotunda and the finance committee discussed it and didn't support bonding through CPC, right?
>> I mean, we can keep talking about it, but I don't think finance committees going to change their mind and seems like we need to move forward. Yeah, I I I mean I think that's borrowing,
you know, three million or borrowing two million through CPC is a big difference. That's new information that wasn't at, you know, wasn't part of the previous discussion. >> It was something we discussed >> that was that wasn't
>> Yes, we discussed the 2 million. >> Well, we didn't responding in general. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We didn't know what the what the we didn't know about the updated school. >> Yeah. But the school number didn't come in yet. >> Yeah.
>> The philosophy of we didn't feel philosophically that the rotunda should be bonded through the CPC. It should be bonded through the town so that number one,
you're not on the hook to retain that CPC one and a half% on the tax rate for 20 years and that it's a town project that should be paid by the town and CPC should be used for
other things. That's I mean >> point of clarification that um you're not required to keep 1.5% >> but you got to keep three quarters of a percent. >> You just have to keep enough to pay the borrow, >> which is half of half of the money, >> right?
>> So 3/4 of a percent. So you're required to keep that, >> right? But you'd have it on the tax bill anyway, >> which would kind of wipe out the the reason why the program's there to have extra money to do things. One of Jack's arguments was, "Well, we don't have other projects to spend money on." Well,
if you don't have other projects to spend money on, get rid of the CPC tax. >> But, I mean, $400,000 after allocating money towards debt service is not a small amount of money for a CPC to be able to accomplish projects,
>> then drop the CPC to [laughter] threequarters of a percent. I mean, if you don't have the money, I mean, I mean, I just with when you have when we have all these major capital items, right,
that we're going to be asking people to increase their tax rate for and you have the opportunity to put Retunda through CPC, not adding, you know, without adding an increase to your tax rate. I don't see why you wouldn't consider that.
>> Yeah. I mean, I thought that the t the people of this town had the rotunda all funded at the end of the town meeting last year and that this year if we want to we should do it through operational cuts and live within our means. I mean >> I mean I'm not going that
>> I know that's a little extreme. But basically like if I if if we looked at the capital needs this year and imagine that they all got yes voted at the ballot and did an analysis of what that impact is to the tax bill.
>> My challenge Tony is that you and Jack are the only ones who want to bond the CPC through the the the Rotunda through the CPC. And I think we've had a lot of discussions about this. And if you and
Jack are the only ones pushing it, we need to move on. >> I I mean I don't to me I'm just trying to come up with a way to minimize the tax bill impact to the rap to the residents. >> I that's >> well going on town meeting for debt
exclusions for capital projects that need to be done. We've been laying the groundwork for that for years. We've been saying we have capital projects. We've been saying we gave
>> we had three years of very low tax increases and we kept saying there's going to be capital projects in the future. >> And that's that's great. I don't I I don't think it's fair to say it's just me and Jack who want to do that. I think
if you look I think I'm just looking at the possible ways to fund it and I'm seeing one that's worth consideration especially given the new information about uh not having to reappropriate that previous amount and the and the lesser
impact of hamstring it does to CPA >> talking about reappropriating that amount if it was paid by the town. We weren't talking about reappropriating that amount if it was paid by CPA. Well, the analysis we were doing was >> we never talked about the 3 million
through CPCA. >> We were talking >> maybe make a suggestion here. It's it's >> approaching 10:00. I think we're circling here a little bit. The question is if there is a deadline for CPC to get
a request in for a one-time payment to help with the rotunda and there's something mechanical that has to be done, should we get that done? so we don't lose an opportunity for discussion and put this [clears throat] off to another time maybe, but um I know the
we're about halfway down the agenda, but the agenda has a lot of quick items I think on it, but um >> yeah, >> it might be as easy as pushing PW project [clears throat] under the roof until we >> Yeah,
>> it's down the line. That's great. Deadline is Monday if you're going to ask. >> Yes. >> I the the deadline the deadline for an application was December. >> December. Yeah. >> So the the Monday thing is that Jack
>> is a is something that I think Jack is just seeking for >> the next meeting. >> He wants he wants some guidance, some direction. So >> what he said is we're scheduling a Zoom meeting for next Wednesday 12 to 11 at 5:30 for the purpose of finalizing our
motion language for town meeting. If you want us to discuss anything relating to the Rotunda funding, let me know and I can amend the agenda as late as Monday afternoon. We have 275,000 of funds available that have not been
allocated to other needs. If we are asked to support a future bond, we do not have to set aside any funds this year. So the 275 cash is available irrespective of the bond. >> Yes. I told him to put it on I said
doesn't hurt to put it on the agenda. Put it on >> and >> and I'll be at the meeting. It doesn't hurt to put it on there on the because if we decide later that we don't want to use that money, >> we just go to town meeting and say we'll pass over that,
>> right? >> We need an actual application. >> No, I mean we submitted an application for the borrowing, I think, and then so it would just be amending that to the >> I would think an application.
I think it's amending. Yeah. >> I had a question. So, if the town bonds it Yeah. then the town has to is on the hook for 10 years or 20 years. If Jack decides, I would like to give you some money, can that be used to pay down that payment or does it or can it be used to
pay like uh prepaying a mortgage? Pay off the back end. >> Andrea said once the bond's issued, they can't pay it off. >> I was wondering if they can pay off the back end like prepaying a mortgage. In other words, the town is always going to be on the hook for 200,000, but they could give you 200,000 this year or next
year or the year after and it just pays pays that loan down early. >> They could give us the 275 now to raise the project, right? >> Yeah. But we can't if like the town goes out to borrow, we can't use that's hitting our our budget every year.
[clears throat] >> You you have to be creative. Like you can use this to fund things like operating stuff like trash barrels and signs whereas and and then use that money to pay for the >> pay off the debt, >> right? So you
>> Yeah. Creative accounting, >> but it has to flow through them, >> right? >> They can't write a check to town of benches. >> No. where we got to >> that was that was kind of another piece
of it too but and I think when you discussed it there was a thought process that CPC could contribute this year cash and next year cash and then we learned after that meeting that that wasn't the case >> if we bond it
>> by June 30th the 27 if we bond it July of 27 seven >> then >> we can >> we would have more money >> call you want to wait >> do >> with the timing of the project and the expenses
>> so if we were to spend and we're doing the whole retunder project in FY27 um we'd have to borrow for it like there's no like expenses that I can offset from CBC the following year >> says that they will be completing it
>> I'll say or at least the majority of it. >> Yeah. But if it's a majority, then we don't have to bond it, right? Until it's complete, >> right? But I can't like >> even if I banned it to like, you know, cover our deficit at your end and the
following year. I mean, I could probably appropriate from CPC for the expenses for that fiscal year, but I can't say, "Hey, CPC, can you pay down the ban that was for this rotunda project?" Because not related to any CPC borrowing,
>> but they could pay cash before you do the long-term borrowing to reduce the amount of long-term borrowing. >> Not necessarily. >> So, it's going to 10. >> I'm looking at your agenda. >> Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
Appreciate your um taking all our questions. >> Want to defer the budget till next week. >> Veterans benefit. >> How big is the veteran? Is it one page or is it Should we just push it off?
>> Because last time we did the nonappropriated and we thought that would be a slam dunk and it wasn't. >> It wasn't. >> I have no changes to the veterans though. >> What? I have no changes to the veterans though. [laughter] >> Just where we got to with this the 275.
That's [clears throat] the defer request is going to be made. >> A request is going to be made, right? A request is going to be made. >> That sounds perfect. >> When we defer the others and adjourn. >> Okay. >> Like a motion to adjurnn. >> Do we have to move on? Right.
You want your call? I can tell if it's quick. You want approve the minutes. Do you want to? >> There were some changes to the minutes. >> You're right. >> Exactly. Should be deferred. >> Okay. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> You have that.
>> So moved. [clears throat] >> Second. >> Do I have a vote? I >> I thank you. >> Thank you, sir. You're going to be able to stand It provided