it's 7 o'clock on Thursday February 27 and I will call the finance committee meeting to order I have with me in the room from the finance committee Tom Parkins Dean the Hardis Mory kraton Andy olderman and myself Sarah melish we have
Peter Twining from the finance committee on Zoom um this meeting is being recorded um in addition in the room we have the Town Administrator GRE federspiel the town accountant um Andrea
mville the fire chief Jake o' um and three members of the select board Kathy bada John round and an Harrison um with that the first item on
the agenda is to discuss the revised fiscal year 26 fire department budget um and I believe people received things today
[Music] yesterday good then you Incorporated that so it is incorporated as the last column in your in this package as well this right hand column yes okay as one
of the options or the the the last quarter option I see okay yeah and that's reflected in the tax rate C yes okay um do people want to discuss all of the
options or just the last option I guess maybe focus on the last option because that's that's what's being presented in the budget unless there's you know particular commentary that Chief has that's confuse
this I I'd like I know it doesn't seem like much to um go the extra route hire them now except for that 115 there's another 115 I think in the benefits P
right it's usually like for a salary what's the multip 1.5 or so or like a low no not that High um probably another another 30,000 oh yeah so the M
like yeah it's 20 26 27% okay okay that's good to know the loaded rate a little less than you thought yeah a bit less
so the the fourth option is to bring on assistant fire chief or Deputy fire chief whatever you want to call them in the last quarter of this year is that correct Chief last quarter of next fisc yeah FY 26 so a year and two months from
now so April of 20 would you like to explain that yeah um so obviously I've uh as you know I've been working uh diligently on the numbers and trying to make things work both uh picture wise in the F big
picture wise in the town I think the the fire department really needs this position uh so I trying to uh find different Avenues to make it palatable um on the short term and in the long term and that seems like option three would be the uh best option even though
it's delayed I think that we can make um do in that short term and some longer Pro bigger project are going to be coming online and that will line up kind of in with those projects yeah i' would say based on kind of what
we've heard and what we talked about the last time when the chief was in you know we could sort of you know we've heard about the need for the deputy far Chief I think for the sake of uh taking some pressure off the FY 26 budget it certainly helps to have it um mostly out
of play for at least the first three quarters I I guess I'd find it helpful just to maybe reiterate what the what the needs are I know there's a burnout Factor little bit a little bit um I also know that there's a business continuation issue here yeah um so one
of the you know looking at the different areas of the fight dep since I've come in um kind of analyzed where our weaknesses were uh We've addressed a significant portion of those one of the ones that we haven't been able to tackle is fire prevention we're doing the bare minimum like some of to sh a house they
need a certificate of you know smoke detector inspection things like that where that's the priority obviously get sh house you guys already hear about it U but the inspections that we're not doing um and not doing on a regular
basis are like tank removal for instance today we just got a tank removal inspection or a permit request from oil tank removal the removal was already taken place 3 days ago they just got accustomed to the inspection not happening so they subit the permit after
the work's been done that's not how work um but they just know that the inspection probably not going to happen they just backload all the perms so that's just one example of in addition to the community risk reduction getting out to our elderly
population into the schools or starting to do a little bit of that we just don't have the depth to do what we shouldn't do you know try to minimize Falls things like that hey um on a little different note but still
fire um there was a service that you were looking at to um collect Billings for is that not is that something we could do in house or is that something ambulance filling yeah I don't think touch that you don't want to touch it so it's worth
the every bit to have yeah because they do not only do they do the billing they end up doing the collections long term if if we have to you know track people down and even 4% of our Collectibles so it's 4% 4% of collec also have programs
to like scrub the addresses to make sure they're correct and everything okay they audit so we basically benefit from that because our Collectibles are at like 89% so they're doing a great job I don't think we get anywhere near that if we
try to do okay I think collections is difficult for in town people to do res you're doing with all different insurance companies I mean it's all the coding it's better to have rules it's just don't think it's an area we W to we
want to go down um Peter Twining do you have any questions on this comments Peter is this audio muted I see it is muted you are muted so if you're talking we can't hear
you maybe he stepped away yeah his name's up there yeah okay Mory wonder if you can sign I don't have any questions I think option three makes sense Gail can can you hear
us I can okay thank you and garor has joined us okay so Peter can hear us he must have stepped away do you have any thing no nothing additional I think option three is uh you know seems like a reasonable
approach for for tackling it yeah a guard do you have I agree I mean I think that it's important for us to start looking at some of the safety measures that perhaps we're not spending right time on and and um it
makes sense that just gives us a little more to do that we've kind of beefed up line of the chain of command in town hall and kind of makes sense to kind of deal with the fire department at the
same time hopefully that's kind of the so I don't know if the TW talked about the safer Grant yeah I mean um so the safer Grant was something that get us like hitting the Power Ball um the notice of funding is probably going to come out mid mid to late March or April
we wouldn't if we were awarded it we wouldn't know until September or you know August or September and we could use that potentially it can't be filled to fill administrative roles but it can back fill uh firefighter roles we do know that we're going to have two um
firefighters leaving uh for retirement purposes and we just had one uh put in their uh notice that going up to plastow to a nontransporting Ambulance Service uh so we're in the process of backfilling that uh the the job opening is out right now and you know staying up
on on top of these things is important um a community nearby us is uh running uh with 33% of the staff remaining uh so they're trying to figure out what they're going to do so being proactive in backfilling the spots as they go so
uh once this um opening is filled the hope is to basically uh put out another request for applications to create a list that will keep on file for two years so that way our uh reaction time is a lot less than it would be if we had to go through the entire process uh that
way we're not we don't see a bounce and over time and things like that yeah makes sense um could go ahead I just going to say can you just give us a a like a a summary of the sort of the training curve when you bring somebody on board I know you know the day they
become an employee of the Town there's a certain amount of training and then and then they kind of pop out of that and they're full-fledged so how does that look so it all depends on the candidate you get uh we've been very lucky our last three candidates have come in with
firefighter certifications they come as a paramedic certification so literally they do two weeks a days they're on group grou and then their officer they work with is assigned to basically do their onboarding mentoring uh Community awareness things like that if they have
nothing then paramedical schools about call it two years rounding up a little bit year and three4 and then the fire Academy's 13 weeks okay um so it's it all depends it could be two weeks of days in they on the group or it could be two years in the on group um we've been
very lucky I think with a change in kind of the person now their View and kind of The outsider's View on the town and the department has changed so getting some good candidates in has been easier than it was in the past y so if they're if
they're on that paramedic training that's two years um they can obviously do a lot of things but but they have to be with somebody theoretically who has that full training so that kind of curbs your ability to move people around a little bit a little bit right now we're
in a good spot because um out of the 16 people 15 are paramedics and one's an EMT so we have that ability right now to be flexible and you know if they're in paramedic school we can still utilize them if they're a firefighter because just give them time off to go to school
if they're not in school we can still reap the benefits of them being an employee so we just have to kind of work with the schedule to optimize it for their schooling so good thanks um how many position
do you apply for under the saf Grant so you'll put will put in for four um the reason being is it's usually tied to meeting an objective I.E that two in two out rule is if you say by getting these
four you meet the objective 100% of the time it puts us at the top of the list um of the of the people that are applying does and um the most recent Grant obviously it could change I haven't seen the notice of funding um the last one was 3 years paid everything
and there was no requirement after the fact previous notice of fundings It kind of ramped up and the town had to kind of gradually start paying uh this last one they paid everything for three years uh and it was no not you you weren't tied to anything after that so it's a great
way if we know we're going to have attrition um it saves us a ton of money so we won't know for sure until we see the new it no it's a funding right and with the way things are in DC we don't even going to continue so a
federal yeah this these are federal what's the rough acceptance rate I mean if you were to take a guess at how many people apply and how many people are awarded everybody applies everybody applies is it like 10% 5% 50% it's
probably less than w we didn't get it last time correct correct and last time we weren't in the position we weren't going to me a re 100% of the time so kind of red now now where we are staing we meet
that gr meeting that requirement but it doesn't mean we have to actually do that we correct okay long term I should say long term okay any other questions on the fire dep um
yes Mr round yes question uh chief for the uh assistant chief that's planned for the last quarter of this coming year y can we assume that there aren't any training or extra costs because this is a person that knows a lot correct and the cost there wouldn't be a cost
because they'd be on an administrative schedule so if we had to send them to a training it would be when they're already working so all the you know they were going to go to some type of you know fire off Officer school etc those are offered to the fire academy for free and they're also working day so they just they have to go down to the fire
academy for class okay all right that's fine and your expectation is a turnover of two firefighters this coming year uh within the next two years I expect at least two to go maybe maybe a third and the budget is as was discussed the
budget implications there it's very dep dep to know where we're at cor with the safer grants and uh what their background is ETC so you can't really you can't plan it I think we're in a much better position than we've been in sort okay good would would the deputy uh
position be expected to have paramedic training um most likely yeah yeah it just it just adds for so much more flexibility um plus a familiarity with what the what the department offers
yeah yeah did you go out on runs I just did I the other day I got it too you're lucky you didn't have my arm can get it um so the deputy chief would also go out
on Run Okay Okay um any questions on the overall fire department budget I know we've discussed it before that was a while ago approval wait a minute let me see if
Peter has any questions Peter Twi do you have any questions on the fire department budget Peter are you there yeah but came on so he can hear us okay um okay you want to make a motion toam I
moved that we pass the fire department for 1, 963330 salary and expenses second more seconds any discussion take a vote Tom yes Dean yes
La yes Andy yes gu yes Z votes yes Peter there okay okay so fire is done thank you everybody thank you thank you wasn't as painful as you thought huh
no easier than the last time so is sanitation the only other thing we haven't done and open so should we do sanitation we know what page it's on
31 31 change yes so as I mentioned we did get the new contract from wheer the disposal Company the incinerator up in Handover North Handover
um s fa substantial increase for this coming year um and then um around 4% increases without years for how
long it's a five year contract five yeah you and so that's um not a lot of choices out there the um landfills throughout the state are we're closing they're not making they're not opening up new landfills um we are we are still
customer so we're happy to still be a customer and they'll continue to service but they are increasing the rates so um could you help me understand the fy2 budgeted was 239 so the effect of this rate increase only brings us to
240 so the 239 was um was more than we needed okay over budget was that expecting an increase at that time or is it uh it was from usage it was really based on a projection of
volume okay so it is Tage base got it um and so then we we you know looking at the actual from 23 we we dropped be 24 24 actual um uh we were estimating just a small
increase U but that increase is much higher but if you look at the 25 that we budgeted not that it's not that much more it's, more so is the is the requested amount for 2026 is that based on a similar
tonnage to what we actually saw Yes or recently okay yes correct okay now are we going to be able to Leverage The sustain sustainability committee to increase the amount of
composting yeah we certainly hope hope so uh because because this is weight based right the more combos we can get out of the stream you're definitely better off so we're hit a bit of a plateau
terms of the number of people participating haven't seen much growth in that lately I want to say it's about a third of the town is it that many it is yeah um might be might be pushing 40% um
be nice to try to get that up higher yeah maybe a little PR yeah yeah so they've uh um the comm's been talking to Tiffany about doing another campaign and is it worth making the bins available
again yeah so we do we have bins we have bins okay one thing that works best in other towns is when the residents can just bring the compost instead of putting it out of the curve you you can take it to the the um
Transfer Center they have a barrel there yeah um next to the recycling bin right and you can put it in there that that I would yeah that's help it's probably not that well known so that's another publicity yeah right yeah because I didn't I actually took it there once
because I was going out of town and too either I wasn't composting for the week or I was going to take it on Saturday this isn't the year we're going to lose the orange bag Revenue the following year right because we're going to go to a different container system
they were talking about yes so Republic will be requiring um the the automated arm pick up the $100 Barrel so we'll have to talk about what
we want to do about that in terms of yeah was that FY 27 stuff though yes yes yeah most likely they did talk most a couple months ago about possibly making that transition sooner um but we haven't heard back from it so we've put in a few
calls and say what's what's going on folks because they did they did talk to us a couple months ago possibly um making that transition sooner and starting a new contract sooner but giving free
bins has anyone considered making the land at the dump like a rental agreement with black Earth as opposed to uh compost collection like if we had that land say if we had a bank of solar
panels there what income would we be getting off that land and shouldn't we be charging a similar amount for for their use of it I mean that that might be a way to look at revenue streams down the road but um because that so we're getting a pretty substantial discount on
the on the compost pick up yeah I don't don't think it would it's it would match though what we would get as regular so the The Next Step um assuming they can reach a higher volume if they reach if the board amends the contract to allow a
higher volume of composting then then our compost cost will go down to zero yeah well so I think the other approach seems more reasonable to do a straight rental but rather than that but
that's down the road too we have we have a contract with them now right yes and for what's the duration of that I can't recall well it's a 10 10year renewable contract yeah um and I'm forgetting so the there's
certain thresholds so as as more volume is handled we get a a a bigger discount on our compost do we get payments at some point if it goes over a certain amount I'm sorry do we get payments back back if it goes I thought if we got payments back if it went over a certain
amount over over a certain amount yes so then they had to pay us yeah okay but but first it goes to zero cost right and then the next tier would be payment you're not holding your breath for payment I'm
not but to go to that level I believe I'm I remembering my numbers correctly it would require a a an amendment to the D permit I think that's above and beyond what's permitted oh okay that's not out of the question you know assuming things are running well
and that sort of thing but but it would require revisiting that will you have a sense of how many people in town are participating in that compost program and I guess more importantly is the trend holding or is it declining so it's
it's it's holding yeah um I want to say it's in the high 30% range no but it it hasn't grown lately because if it if it's declines down to a low point or
zero beans argument starts to make a lot of sense here apart from the benefit of doing something environmentally sound it's just uh yeah so it's something we um so DP uh DP DPW monit you know gets with their
quantities every if it's monthly or quarterly we do track their volumes and and how much participation we have of residents you
know hi um I don't know how to how to raise how to raise my hand please take your name and address uh Sandy Rogers 82 old Essex Road I'm speaking because I'm on the
sustainability committee um the numbers that we have been hearing from Black Earth is that we are at over 50% of residents and that and that is a very large amount versus other
communities um so we are doing everything that we can to try to promote and you know we'll be keeping on that to promote um the the composting um but you know to to expect
it to make a huge difference going forward we would have to then really incentivize the commercial entities so I have a question regarding uh you know if the contract
you know and the amount of tonnage that we get from our commercial entities the restaurants um the uh you know like the the clubs like Essex County Club and Yacht Club we're trying to um you know
sort of up the ante regarding what we can TR to do to try to incentivize them I don't know how much of the tonnage um can be portioned out and understood um between that um but just
wanted to give you sort of an update on those numbers thank you great thanks a lot Chuck has his hand up Chuck Dam go ahead how we doing H yeah I I can speak
to some of these numbers just real briefly you know so they're starting out at 30 tons a week through the through the building uh and so that's kind of the threshold uh I'll have to check uh I I take I think sy's probably right that we're probably getting closer maybe a
little over 50% townwide but that is not the entire 30 T per week so that that number you know that 50% number probably represents something like I would say somewhere between s and 10 tons a week so that's what's coming from the town uh
and then there you know they have other routes you know this is supposed to be a regional facility so they no matter what they always have to take any tonnage from the town first and then they can supplement that up to 30 tons a week and then we can add additional tonnage as
the kind of process be out so kind of like what Greg was saying you know if they're you know meeting their odor requirements if they're meeting their sound requirements if the traffic's not bad stuff like that we we and then D will allow them to up that tonnage on a weekly basis so you know like I said
always they're taking the town stuff then they can supplement that and then uh you know so these things that s was talking about for the you know say the schools or the you know the country club or anybody else they they could theoretically be part of that 30 tons a week however that's not taking and
diverting tonnage away from you know wheeler because that's you know the commercial tonnage is separate of the Town curbside program so like these are all kind of things that have been considered and you know kind of factored in but there is definitely a path forward I think with what all of you
guys are saying whether it's increasing the tonnage increasing the incentives you know for that last 50% of you know households and so on and so forth but you know it's just we have to kind of let the process play out and make sure that they're meeting the kind of environmental requirements that they've
said they will that's all thank you um on the town social media Facebook we have the little bin thing for recycling every week There's a picture of a
bin and it tells you shows pictures of what you can recycle and what you can't recycle I'm wondering if we could have a little compost bin oh that's a explaining what you can recycle what you can compost you can't compost great idea
because apparently they used to compost pizza boxes and now those are recycled P oh is that what it is yes so it does seem as though a PR campaign to
encourage our residents to take part in the compound posting program has a three-way benefit one is that we help the environment with obviously the second is we reduce the
poundage that wheel abor is it wheeler picks up and so we save money and then the Third Way That We benefit is that's a question there is a
third service yeah yes thank you I knew you were going to pit in going to save you so there's a three-way benefit to composting if you're not composting now
Town benefits in three ways wow Sarah hi Peter I think there's a fourth way which is if we gave better instructions about what is recyclable that would also help compostable others be more precise about
what to recycle what's eligible in what condition I think that would help the recycling also yeah I think that there is something on the um Town Facebook
page there is there is address that yes I I think it could be expanded to be more precise okay there's always this argument about whether milk containers are recyclable you know waxed paper and they're not and that kind of thing I
think we talking about recyclable and compostable are two separate things right okay p is talking recyclable we're talking compostable but we need both up there so that's true yes he it out I mean maybe a topic for Tiffany is to
create a contest here yes where people could weigh their recyclables and weigh their whatever and if they hit 250 pounds they get a free ice cream on the town at C dusties or something you know and their name of the cricket like the
yach club gives out an ice award the exactly you know Black Earth now has something called the charm program yes and that that also takes the whole thing another step or two if people were apt
to know anything about that I think it's worth some additional information on the charm program well and it's my understanding that the residents of Manchester can put any type of textile and shoes on
top of their compost bin and it's picked up for free by Black Earth yes that's pay for charm for those for the textile piece and it can be Rags it can be donations and I've done it many times
it's got to be in a white plastic bag talk well the biggest thing for Black Earth as well is the Board of Health qualified to oversee their testing program I mean they're bringing a lot of material into town the process
and we want to make sure it's not hazardous you know one thinks of compost as not being hazardous but who knows what people are putting in their compost bins and ly they do test their comp I know they do but do we have the capability to oversee it because we're
in a environmentally sensitive area there so we we have uh you know uh I think it's quarterly test thing now that we do by a third party uh and that's all those reports are submitted to D so it's not Board of Health it's uh it's D the
the town uh is required because it's you know it's a closed landfill so and it's a transfer station you know that the town is responsible for so like all of these things are part of the permitting process that we went through to get black Earth in there in the first place
and then we have to continue with that compliance going forward forever so you know this is all this is all stuff that's been overseen do I have a motion to approve the sanitation collection and Disposal
budget in the amount of $680,000 so move second gar moves Andy second any more discussion take a vote Tom yes Dean yes Morris yes Andy yes G yes Peter yes and
Sarah said yes okay so we're done with that except for OPB and the school um so we need to talk about the capital
budget and you sent us an email today about additional possible expenditures and capital yeah I'm almost wondering if we should start with the
opad discussion and whether we want to use reserves that's fine but I do want to share some new information okay sorry that came through later today y um so
there and I'm talking about the real Tunda so the real Tunda um anticipating the ability to um go after two two grants a million a piece see econom SE Co
Economic Development something that um seport Council monies for a million which we're pretty confident in since they have funded the design work and typically when they fund the design work they are
pretty amable to funding construction um and we were hoping then to submit a second Grant to czm coastal zone management um for a million um they have much less money to give out um they had 25 million now they only have five
million to give out so there's no way we're going to get a million dollar Grant from them um and I'm doubtful that we will U rise to the top um as this looking through their criteria they just released it um today on a on a video
conference um where they're looking for projects that are going to protect people from harm um brend is not going to rise to the top why you could fall off if it gets wrong you could farther so I'm skeptical okay of of that
million dollars coming through so what's the total cost for the Rotunda total cost is 2.3 2.3 and we had three from we had three from CPC I'm wondering if we ask that to be boosted to five okay um
and then grab another eight from fund balance um and give Chuck another two and road and road um projects as the note indicated we're probably
underestimating uh repaving costs yeah I would rather put 200 into op put it youve got a you've got a major road that you need to repay so Pleasant Street Road needs to well we paid for that last year we have that in
the budget the bond for Pleasant Street no yes some of that money is going to well Chuck help us out Chuck now that that's the that's the water main was the was the bond so that there
was three three projects the water M the the P and the um meters so we so we we do have some Paving money in the budget but it's not
it's not going to cover the you know the the basically the inflation over the past year when because you know that the the paving has an escalation in it anyway but we're we're rebidding it now so it just you know it was based on the previous years
how much do we have in this year's budget the fiscal year 25 and how much have we spent I'd have to defer to Greg and Andrew I'm not I don't have it in front of me but I I mean I I think we're probably short 400,000 based on the
email that I sent to Greg I I don't know the precise numbers off the top of my head back to the Rotunda so the hold on well um so the debate about you know what so we have about a million million one that you could use in addition from
your from the fund balance to get down to that 8% Target um so that's so so you have up to 1.1 that you can allocate um my my my strong sense from the community is that they're not going to
want to see that realer collapse and I agree with that and go away so I I I do think that's a priority that's a priority over the Reed Park stuff I mean because that's the same Grant right what are you talking about he's
saying we have a million doll grant for rotunda right that's not talking about Reed Park but we're short the other million right the most you can get for any one project from SE Coast is 1 million right so would we prioritize the
Rotunda over the harbor if there is a limited Grant Pool so we don't have any money going to Reed Park Town money that's all potentially Grant funded from the economic seport from the same people that were asking for the retirement already awarded right so I'm
just saying can we're not priority they're not gonna allow us to shift it so we can request an additional additional million for the real Tunda like I say because they have funded the design I'm pretty optimistic that they'll they'll Grant
it sounds like we could set a priority between the rotundo or the repart with that money but it's he's expecting the million a million from seport Council for rotunda R and he's saying he can't have more than a million for a project
so we already have a million from the C that's what he's expecting okay okay I'm just trying to arrange the priorities it's a czm that's the issue okay right right so you're thinking million from the czm and you're thinking
CPC goes from 300K to 500k and then we pull 800 out of fund balance which gets us to 2.3 yes and you know so that you know we don't have a bid yet that's um you know that that 2.3 has a contingency in it so
if we were lucky it would come in a little lower and we wouldn't need to spend them MH but it could go the other way 12 so do we do we have any
monies in this fiscal budget that we're expecting to go into free cash at the end of the year so you have your um Library 150
150 yeah so just back on the Rotunda thing for a moment um that's gone through all the engineering it's gone to the permit does the permit have a 30% contingency in it I presume F engineering is doing this work yes and I
don't I don't remember the I don't remember the exact percentage see design or Construction Construction Construction yeah yeah we're done with design so the 2.3 you're saying includes and so the 2.3 is a is a pretty
hopefully safe number depending on contractor from North or South y okay yep exactly yeah in the past we've gotten good bids right hopefully again hopefully nobody else will have Grant so
that people will be looking for work that's one way to look at it that's a silver lining I guess yeah so great with the uh so by that abortion me addition to to make five from CPC
hopefully and uh and the split that you were talking about leaving 200k for the road resurfacing ad still leaves us 200k shy for that road resurfacing if I was understanding Chuck correctly Greg's
only asked for 200k I understand Chuck's just throwing out 200k I assume it's not out of thin air you see the free uh season that we're having the really going down no I mean
an educated guess for the 400 right so you know just like Greg was saying you know hopefully the bids come in good for the Rotunda you know we're hoping the bids come in good at Paving and you know I one way or another I'll make it work it's just the the 400k would make me feel good about it and you know like I
always say if I don't spend the full 400k you know it'll go towards the next Road or the next Road um okay I'll figure it out but I you know 400 is was the you know we were trying to spend a million that's that was the number if I can get 200 then I'll I'll make sure we
use it wisely okay so can I just ask a question here on the sheet I think you sent us Andrea earlier today looks like Road reserving is 300K so are we talking about 300K to 400k or are we talking about a different amount adding 200
adding 200 to the 300 for is that what you're saying or I because I'm looking at the DPW line on the article 300 yeah 300 exactly so it's it's there would be an additional 200 on top of the 300 okay all
right 400 or whatever so we have so that's the the 300 is Town Money there's also chapter 90 about 150 on top of that is is chapter 90 strictly State funds or is it a
federal pass through is it St F yeah and they've talked about increasing chapter 90 yeah so the governor has proposed the 50 is that in the budget that's out there to be approved that's that's in her budget
okay um we got a long way to go on the state budget so we won't know until July if we're lucky we're luy right and that's the other thing is my my hope is to you know the money for roadway whatever it ends up being is available at town
meeting so you know we we Greg's right we do have some chapter 90 that we haven't spent from this year uh but you know the the available you know what we count on in the FY 26 budget for chapter 90 is not available from the state until 71 so I'm looking to line this up so
that we can do this work as soon as possible after town meeting uh based on you know potential detours and whatnot come fall uh so this is this kind of how this is all lining up so what I want to know is what the
budget is for fiscal year 25 including the chapter 90 and what have we spent it on and what do we plan to spend because we just allocate money every year and we never get an
accounting of what it's spent on and how much is left right right well so we we do uh so we did walk a road this year so that was the big one um Andrew you'll have to help me out if you have it in front of you I don't have it in front of me but we have
no we just did Walker Road and you said fy2 so we had fy2 for July didn't you no that was we did the water main last last year last last winter we did Walker Road was in September October because we had
700,000 for for drainage last year uh for the road resurfacing last year plus the chapter 90 chapter 90 is not included in that chapter adds yes right so I I believe I have around 300,000 in chapter 90 funds uh that are
unspent today so that's that's part of the money that will be spent on Pleasant Street that's what I for for Paving and so you know I think we will have a shortfall you know my my estimate was around
900,000 last year when we you know executed the Pleasant Street work on the water me uh the current estimate which includes genes and it might come in better is about 1.3 so that's where I'm getting the 400 Delta now like I said we
have we have some money still available from fy2 we still have some money from chapter 90 but if I add up all these buckets we're not at 1.3 so that's that's all I'm trying to cover if we can if we can do it uh you know then then great if not you know I I have other
levers I can pull when it comes to doing a mill in overlay versus doing a full reclaim and uh you know I can do inch and a half a top versus two inches a top or you know I I have other levers that I can do within the design and construction but if we want the best
possible outcome for a 20-year road then you know I'm thinking I need about 400,000 so that's that's where this is all coming from you're throwing a lot of numbers at us I'm sorry you said you expecting Pleasant Street to be 900k and year changed it to 1.3 million
right so 900,000 last year was was you know when we were lining up that you know when you said we had 700,000 in the budget so far so on and so forth the 300,000 from chapter 90 that contract was up so it expired it was only through calendar year
24 um you know the work is will take place in calendar year 25 so we do a three-year on call Paving contract based on the quantities of pleasantry and you know suspected escalation and inflation the the estimate that we're looking at
is one point for the same job is about 1.3 so that's the 400,000 difference now that that is a full reclaim sidewalks curbing you know it's not new curbing but it's reset the existing curbing all that stuff so that is you know that
that's a 20-year life cycle job that's how we've been doing it that's what we did on School Street it's what we did on Walker Road um you know so that's that's how we like to do things if if I don't have that money available or if the if the bids come in you know not advantageous then I will go to a Mill
and overlay and we will do it a different way and I will get the job done but that's not to say that's how I want to do it that's just what what it will be necessary is there an engineering recommendation for full depth at Pleasant Street I mean if you drive down Pleasant
Street I would say it's pretty obvious you this is this is not a new road or a a good road I don't know what they did the last time they paved it but we did do the service Connections in 2018 and so that was already you know it was already a deteriorated
Road Peter do you have any comments on this I'm sorry did you ask me a question yeah do you have any thoughts on this road reserving yes none that are particularly unique um I'm I'm very sensitive that we try to do the job that Chuck
wants but I'm still a little confused by where we are with the numbers that the 400,000 is a new number to me and I'm not sure I understand where where we can source that money so perhaps we can just review the
revenue that we think we have the dollars that we have so try to do that the revenue for so we have now Chuck I think you said we have about 300 in in chapter 90 monies
302,000 302 all right that's about 300 so that's apparently that's in the bank yeah and any unspent 25 Paving money we have 195,000 right now in the
road maintenance account 195 okay so I think we have um the three buckets we have we have 500k approximately currently in Bank prox me 500 y the
request was for 300 more in town money and then the 150 more in chapter 9 a little bit of timing issue because of that chapter 90 as Chuck said doesn't become available um that's 950 sometimes
they try to so that would be the 950 which would have paid for the original project right okay so that's how we were that was the original thinking yep so now if the 900 becomes a bigger number that's where the request for
dollar comes from and on what basis are we calculating this upch charge so Chuck have you had some conversations with contractors or other right so so we you know so we have to bid this contract so it's a unit based
contract so it's you know based on tonnage of asfalt structures linear foot of curbage curbing sidewalks the whole you know driveway aprons all that so we have a quantity takeoff design you know engineered design that's what the quantities are based on for Pleasant Street and then we
apply uh you know it we don't even apply escalation to the previous contract what we do is we look up the dot numbers on the dot website that's based on you know dot bidding and so that you know based on that you know that accounting you
know at those unit quantities the number came out to 1.3 um so that you know that's just how every project goes we estimate it before we put it out on the street um like I said I have I have some other levers I can pull but you know Greg asked me if
we had additional Capital needs and I said you know we're likely looking to be short on roadway Sarah yes Peter is there also a timing issue here Chuck where the chapter 90 funds are not available until July 1st I
I I wasn't sure if you were also indicating that that was a timing issue also for you right so that we have the 300 you know we we try and save up these chapter 90 years you know in for things like this so like Andre said we have about 300 in the you know from prior
years you know FY 24 and fy2 um so we that 300 I am you know I I will plan to use that to you know make this work the the 150 that you know is in this year's budget for FY 26 we don't get that pass down from the state until
July so I don't I don't really have that 150 available for the Pleasant Street project assuming we try and get it done ahead of 71 which is my my intent I see so there is a timing issue because the 150 will not be available until after you'd like to get the
project done correct so essentially those funds remain unavailable as a practical matter to to be applied to the pleasant tree resurface so so the next line item is
400,000 for drainage sidewalks and sidewalk improvements right um so so some of that drainage number will go into the to Pleasant Street because we do have some drainage work that needs to be done we will have castings that need to be replaced stuff
like that um some of that is included in the 1.3 million some of it will not be the the pipe work will not be so so that is stuff that will get used um yeah so so that is that is part of
the bucket that we will dip into um so how much do we have drainage sidewalk improvements from last year this year whatever yeah carry these over Andrea I do okay right so what do
we have unspent in that on that line I so for the road leaving night we have the 195 right now assuming that we're not GNA spend anything before June 30th and then for the drainage and sidewalks we have 130,000
130 right but that has to go towards that doesn't just go towards Pleasant Street that goes towards street sweeping in the spring uh catch Basin cleaning in the spring and you know there's other maintenance stuff so even the 400,000 that you're looking at for fy2 or FY 26
that all gets you know the there's other things that that goes towards every year so we have nothing left over in that line item from fiscal year 25 that's
right well we'll we'll have some amount that carries over but it's it's not the full whatever Andre year fcal year 24 do we have any left the fcal year 24 I carried over $92,000 but that's now been drawn down so that
that line the balance is today whatever Andrea just said before that that 92 has been included that 95 was part of was carried forward and was part of the bucket and that bucket now stands at 130 so sort of back to Peter's question
about a timing don't we have the same timing question with the town because our we'll vote on this in end of April but we can't spend it until July 1 right out of free cash unless unless we take it out of free cash I mean we were looking at during
our Peter and I were interning with the DPW and we were talking about a $800,000 drainage sidewalk and a $4 million Capital to like kind of tread water with maintaining that that would those were good numbers that we could
and you know the capital this year is 2 million below that because oh all these extra operating stuff for the government and everything or whatever for for whatever reason you can't forget the amount of capital we had in for DPW last year that's being bonded and we still
have 7.5 million I know okay I'm just saying that the burn rate is um I I think Chuck is Justified with the 400,000 to finish the the paving
um and the thing is that we we're we're shortcutting the capital this year we haven't finished yet okay we have I mean we purposely had higher
Capital last year that was flowing into this year because we were going to bond it so yeah last year was in effect two years worth of capital if you look at 7.5 million that right right well we were taken a break from
the capital by Design to give the tax payers a break this year before the bond next year so you said 1.1 million in free to get down to the 8% we can add the 150 to
that also right because we know that's going in at the end of the year in the library yes yeah yeah that's fair okay yeah so so 1.25 1.25 And1
800 for the r which is leaves only 450 so we have nothing extra to put in I think we're still on a good track with all that yeah but here's my concern Andy the
next four years of capital is assuming a 2 and a half% hit to the tax rate every year plus the normal 2 and a half% from operating plus whatever the schools
are where where our opon our OPB and contribution is 1% tax rate so if we were able to fund a larger portion out of that out of free cash
that's going to reduce the impact on Capital make more available sure next year now the other question I have on opv is once that's fully funded and I correct that we start paying premiums out of it right and what so that's a
double set right and what type of money is that do you have any idea it's just for the retirees right correct I think it's in the $600,000 range could talk more about it okay okay next week so I did do a third version of the
facility long range facility where I tried to do every other year at two and a half extra okay and and so it went this this FY 26 Z Z yep FY 27 had
basically two and a half additional and then 208 had a half a percent additional and then back up to two and a half additional down to half percent so I tried to tried to strict that a little bit because I I you know every year an
extra two and a half is just probably not going to fly right that's that's just pushing too much well we've been hear about hearing about it on social media since you said it at the school I'm sure yeah they L right on that um they didn't hear the fact that I
said you know that's probably not dual but anyways we just obviously that there is going to be some push back on it that's that's question no question so I mean the oped um if we just sort of say the course is fully
funded in four years right under Sherman's new projection I think no I think if we State the course it's shorter right are we putting in three years oh if we do 330 this year which is
what's in the budget right right right right and 360 and 27 then we have only 144 in 28 right so 3 years two and a half years yeah I mean I think that's really good um that's a that's AE of schedule
get this off the table okay and just to be clear the the I have so I under uh I didn't take full advantage of that in my in that third version I just did I think can you do that I could I that'll that'll lower those percentages
by another percent actually okay yeah if you can adjust your third version take this assuming we make this that would take a percent off every year so My my two and a half now becomes one and a half and my half a percent goes away better that's that's starting to become
Within Reach starting to become doable and particularly if we can start paying the premiums out because you're talking a big number paying premiums out well that's what I'm saying I haven't counted the premium payment oh the premium I just I just counted the the 330 the 330 I didn't double okay right okay so I'm
I'm I'm I'm Shing myself a percent so that's that's actually very helpful that's good so Greg just Rel to the retunda that money is of is put together that 2.3 um that project will happen in in
next this coming a year from now no it'll happen in 26 FY 26 which you working on right so it would happen next next winter okay late late uh November December time frame what's the
duration to is it oh it's probably a project well there's some there's masonary work there that would be in the spring so they they're limited as to when they can work in the water so it's probably a five month project okay four or five months okay I just I know
sometimes these Municipal projects end up you know we plan for it and then it gets pushed out right so you know we're fretting over like a certain situation that may not come to pass that's the only kind of thing I'm throwing out there yeah I just I don't and I'm on pins and needles right now with that
Rend the last thing yeah this rest of the winter and summer do we have the permits yes it's all permit okay so we just have to go out to bid right and to do that we need body okay thank you so I just
uh last historical restoration grants that we might be able to look at for the Rotunda like yeah they're just not out everything's drying up all the are drying up
um so if it's appropriated at the town meeting you can go out to bid after after town meeting even though it's not new fiscal yet yes yeah as long as we know it's been approved yeah I we'll have to wait till the well
czm we should know by late by late spring I think right which would then mean I mean Cups did I say c yeah you said Cort cport cport Council Point
Council they and czm we're going to apply for we'll apply but and when will we hearing that uh same time frame okay should be should be late late spring early summer so that would just reduce the amount we pull out of free cash we have it for
next year does the AG certifies our town meeting and does that also mean the budget that's approved and is there any delay there do we not have to worry about that or is that only for like articles that
are AG does so they don't AG doesn't approve art okay monetary things do does when we set the tax rate in the fall that yeah that's all that recap process but we shouldn't once we have a positive vote town meeting then we should be
pretty clear okay yes absolutely all right does does do approve our actual budget or for our free cash and it's they certify our free cash okay so and they approve our
tax rate and part of the tax rate is certifying the votes making sure that what we voted is covered by the tax rate or estimated receipts and it's reasonable and things like that if we like ask for like high of the sky even if the town meeting voted it the D could
say no I don't think that's reasonable I think you know you're not going to make it um so we W certify like go back to the table and redo it and that's why you say you can't increase the projected Revenue more than 10% unless you document it because that's I Pro exactly
if I had proof to say like okay yeah building permites is going to go up like you know 25% they're gonna be like well how how has that happen I'm like well we actually increased our permit Fe like fees 25% and they'll be like oh okay all right and then we think you're going to get that money
then and had we figured out anything about fees for for building fees for CSG so they indicated they will be applying um basically next January that'll be in 26 okay and do we
have any s number they were Reed to give me a I've heard that the Biotech Industry is slowing down quite a bit so the P night is much of a rush to I mean I'm I fully expect the project
to go forward yeah I do too it's just I think there's more Dynamics involved this situation how many square feet are they building like 300,000 400,000 square feet there was two phases okay well cut
it in half so it's 400,000 feet they're building 200,000 square feet it's going to cost at least $400 a square foot so 400 times 200 with three zeros attached it's going to be $80 million I think think I don't know maybe that's wrong oh
at least and so um what is the millage on building permits it's a th000 $6 a th000 so six time 8,000 6 * 8 is 48 so the building
permit's got to be $50,000 I think not 500 $500 lost to zero it's 00,000 so there you go and that's why the question actually probably do we because I think that's do we include
that as revenue for fiscal year 26 which then gives us half a million dollars more to spend capital I we probably have it but I think probably not wise to spend it
right okay I wouldn't plan on it okay I just think that's that's good FY 27 money yeah okay Sarah I'm not clear on where we've gotten to on this question of the roadway so I I I think that what we've
gotten to Peter is to increase the road resurfacing to say 400,000 will come from fund balance yeah right we're going to add an item for the
Rotunda which will have 800,000 from fund balance is that correct yes and then we have no money left in free cash to
spend so' essentially exhausted free cash right we're down to the 8% which is our we're $5,000 over 8% which is the target yep but but normally usually the end of the
year oh no we have 150 more right that was that was part of the 1.25 oh yeah so we're we're including the 150,000 from the library which is going to go into free cash at the end of the year got it
from this and where's chapter 90 it doesn't show up here okay that's a slush fund right so Andrea just curiously where do you think we're going to end up on free
cash at the end of this year I know we still have five months plus but what's your sense sense I haven't been like a full run through but like just quick run through I was thinking
like um 300,000 not including the 150 um right now um but that's very conservative and very quick so we have 300,000 more to spend no it's just help we put it into open have you seen receipts yet from
um is all that pretty mapped at this point you know like excise and everything so you kind of know where that's going to be for the year at this point for the most part yeah I've gotten the commitments for the motor vehicle motor vehicle comes in last month and this months are usually very stable so
M than the other big wild card is the um the tbw facility right now we're planning to do 660 as a capital exclusion could we adjust that if we needed more money as well I don't think we're in a position
to put more money into DPW at this point we're spending an awful lot of money in DPW and I don't see that that so I'm showing 864 well again the 660 is part of capital exclusion I'm saying rather than so it's
really I don't know can't isn't the capital exclusion bucket can can we put the 860 all in the capital exclusion that raises the taxes that just raises taxes yeah a capital exclusion increases the tax rate for that year
only because it's a cash payment okay we don't want to do that okay yeah so okay so right now we only have 200,000 coming out of Taxation for the um plus the
660 so it's 860 in total and that's basically the DPW because of the site costs right that's to advance the design yeah but I mean it's a it's an admin building and some bins so the main cost as in the the site
development I would think you think design is a certain percentage of the total cost usually but I mean is there any part of the existing DPW facility that can be moved up there or is that building oh God certainly not
the building um there may be a couple lifts inside that that we would bring over but you know that's pretty minimal in terms of the overall project costs um yeah we'll be ready to give a you know a much bigger overview on the DPW facility and potential options for you know
Public Safety campus but we're kind of probably you know a few weeks out you know after you guys final up finalize the budget uh to you know do a bigger showand tell with you and obviously the selectboard have they finished the Geotech work uh they finished the initial
Geotech work they finished the geothermal boring uh they did do the site survey um I think we will to to to supplement the campus design we we need to do another round of geoch which is
you know included in the budget um so they should be actually either they they may have already done that or you know maybe waiting after this thought to to do it but so that's the kind of the information to kind of get to the next step which you know take a few weeks to
a month so there's been no showstoppers so far yeah no actually the initial Geotech was good um you know there's definitely some some fill and some Boulders but you know we think uh you know no net import or export of of soils and no you know bad rock or you know un
unsuit bles question yes Mr round yes uh just curious the requested was 1.75 billion and what was recommended was 860 is that because there are certain activities that have been deferred to fiscal 27 or
was the one 75 number high ball or that's been deferred okay so yeah it's not we're paying for about 50% it'll it'll it'll happen eventually it'll happen eventually this is about 50% is that yeah okay right so we're hoping that
that gets us you know completely through like the permitting set um you know so we can make sure that you know concom is Happy planning board is Happy DP or anybody else that needs to look at things is Happy um you know and then we'll move to final design and FY 27
there's also we have been muling around with the project team about doing alternative delivery method so more of a construction management at risk model versus a design bid build which is your kind of traditional horizontal construction um so these are things that
we might be able to to utilize to do a better project and I think we've gone over all the rest of the capital items is that correct so I had one additional request yeah um so so
the um Library originally we had the 200,000 for the uh windows and repairs we took that out because they're getting CPC money right and I would like
to request that we use that 200 ,000 to advance the design work anding process for the senior centers and then that that would get eventually beay through the fundraising but in order to advance it and
to um create the concept drawings and the the renderings that we need to do the fundraising you you need to do that design work talk about that before yeah I I have a serious concern with that and I think that when we purchased
that building for a million we were told that fundraising was going to occur all the renovations which is couple of million probably more um and
it would seem to me that in order to show that there really is an interest in donations that the library I mean the senior center should be able to come up with the 200,000 in donations to move
the design forward that's not much money if you're talking about raising a total of two or three million and I just I really concerned about continuing to invest Town money
um if they're I mean we we approved that building almost a year ago they've had a year to start raising money I haven't seen a campaign right so we hired a consultant last month to develop
a plan and to identify High donors that work will take place between now and the end of summer and then the goal and Target was to start serious fundraising then in the
fall was the budget for the hiring of the consultant from that fee from a state Grant we did receive we did receive a state P ear Mark but yes I don't know what other people think
but I just just concerns I just I just see this this whole project costing the town a lot of money I agree with you Sarah this has the and I'm not saying I I
don't doubt the necessity or the justification for having the senior center however it has the earmarks of even though we're going through a thaw slippery slope shall we say and I think
it it is incumbent on the leadership at the senior center to evidence their commitment to what's going on and um this is a a great way to do that that would be my
opinion Sarah yes Peter I agree with G what G just said I I think it would give us greater confidence that there's a real support for what I think is a quite a good siiz hurdle yet to
go if the uh the folks could put together the money for supporting the fundraising uh I just want to note my support for what gar just said I think it's well said okay thank you pet Tom I
agree I agree with this yeah and so we don't like the 200,000 she gonna love the idea of having a bond vote which is right I don't I would so the board has the board of the fle board
has has voted to move forward with a bond vote um not to um to authorize but not to actually issue the bond um so that that's ready to go when the fundraising hopefully is successful and some of
those a lot of that fun some of that fundraising will involve pledges over multiple years so you need upfront money um so you need you would need the bond that to go forward I again I think it's
premature I I hear that there's not going to be any building for a while so the goal would be to start construction a year from from now so we would a million dollar build it doesn't it cost that much to
200,000 of design to oh the renovations are going to be massive it'll be a renovation and an addition it'll be a $2.5 million construction project in addition to the 1 million we are yeah correct
and that will escalate guaranteed construction C are not going down do we have a we have a document that that uh sort of shows the we've looked at these chunks of capital you know that we have in front
of us like the DPW the potential for safety yes building yes I've got a a new I got like I said I got version three but I shorted us a little bit on this okay because I I sort of I find it a little confusing sometimes to talk about these projects in
isolation because I don't think the library is on that plan at all right I I don't show library on this one um I don't show the senior center on this because I'm I'm saying Library I'm meant Senior Center I'm yeah um I don't show the senior center on it because
again I don't think we go forward with it unless it's going through donations but you know it's it's a bit of a chicken or the egg syndrome um I think it it presents a pretty strong message
to potential donors that the town is serious about going for that here's the design um here's the fundraising plan here's the bond to do it once we have those dollars pledged um and then to have that
fundraising take place in the fall and by January you have a very good sense of where you are and in the meantime you finished your design you've gone out to bid um and you're ready to roll come February March of next year assuming the
fundraising has been successful but you don't do it unless that fundraising has been successful I I I take a different approach and I've made generous contributions to certain Capital campaigns and my personal opinion is if
the town goes out with the bond that I know if I don't contribute the town's on the hook so I think I think incentive for people to donate the town's already committed to
spending the money y i I hear that I hear that logic I'm just wondering um so that the the fundraising group has been hired for we've got some sort of arrangement whatever this yes are they aware of this
concept and I'm curious what their opinion would they've seen it both ways okay it's very important what they think because that affects their ability to be a to Marshall the raising money yeah they they've seen it be successful both
ways um and you know of course we we talked about glosser's effort and how they've done their I mention that Library so it's a private library but the city has fronted the money they approved the bond and it's it's to be
repaid through the fundraising now they've gone ahead with construction before they raiseed the money I'm not sugges I'm not suggesting we do that they're still short um I'm I'm suggesting we wait and make that decision until a year from now after
we've seen whether or not the fundraising is is materializing so why can't we put the bond on next year's town meeting why do we have to do it this year if we're not even going to start construction until about the time in next to meeting it just seems premature
to me but again it's just that different those two different approaches some people feel it's it sends a strong message to go ahead and have that preapproved and your perspective Sarah and I respect it is that um that that's
it sends a negative message some people thinks it's a positive some people think it's a negative it's two two different perspectives on the same issue what are the sents of the other members of the board I'm having a hard time with it honestly because I can see both sides of it
yeah I I think we bought the building there's the commitment that shows a commitment that's I mean and I get million dollars and then and and I don't quite see the the the discouragement factor in waiting to bond it next year
if that's in fact the way to go and I I think uh you know John makes a good point but I think it'd be good to understand what the consultant might recommend that's possible because I think um the other
thing to think about I think the the probably the school vote for funding Essex the Essex project would probably be fall town meeting um 26 next fall this fall you don't think
it'll be next spring I don't think so I think I mean I could be wrong but I think it's it's it's one of the other but I they'd have to move pretty quickly to make it for next spring yeah some of the projections that I saw saw last night you know had it as a like a fall
27 to reiterate what Andy just said I why wouldn't we ask the professional fundraisers which direction they think is more effective yeah we can we can push that and see if they give do this for a living so right yeah yeah I'm I'm happy
to get the more definitive the the brief conversation they said well we've seen it both ways but I can I didn't ask which one do you prefer I I said have you seen it both way and they said yes well I think I think in particular we're asking for their advice on our
particular circumstance right yeah I I'd like to keep supporting the senior s but I you know can we take like put off some of the painting window and door repairs in the town hall there's 200,000 there can can we maybe put that
off and and do some work towards Furnishing the senior center I mean it's it's all a matter of Cho choices and priorities to me but no that's pulled off anyway that was the windows paid for by CPC for the library the library so
that was pulled off yeah so that's off so we don't already lost them well is it still in the um that's what he's talking about is spending that 200 on something else okay that was the 200 I was suggesting so then I was supporting it
then can can we go so that if we don't spend that 200 that's a taxation item okay can we go back to the tax rate bit um it looks like you're using almost all
of the unused Levy capacity that's on the old one oh jeez sorry we're at 3.6 the 3.6 okay okay that's better
and what does that include so that includes everything you've approved so far in the finance committee um it includes the fire department's request that you just approved tonight okay it includes sanitation that you just WR tonight okay um it includes the 7.29% increase for
manister Essex um which is the that model A that's that's the what I consider the worst Model A included which includes the 27 27% Insurance okay and then for Capital it
includes um everything that's on the sheet on the sheet in the back yes so if you pulled 200,000 that was already pulled it was already pulled oh okay okay
um but how much we could we could do the school with an override too right yes yes also I I have the 300,000 for Road resurfacing original request under
taxation right so and we're moving all of that to no we're just pulling an additional 400,000 out of free cash but but we could if you look further down if you look in the column the fund balance use we could ship some of those things for example we're
showing the Ocean Street as 100,000 on the fund balance we could put that under Taxation and right so there is 300 there's 306,000 in fund so you could just Shi those three items in the fund balance column over to Taxation and then
shift the 300 of roads over to fund balance no harm no F all my notes are on the wrong one but this is the same that didn't show the front page um
so if we had a 2 and a half% increase in the tax rate that would leave 350 400,000 override for the school yes and our additional cost is like 1.1
million our school increase cost this year was like 1.1 million it's more than that it's 1.7 keeps changing every week 16 last do we know what page school
is just oh I'm sorry yeah 1.2 1.2 total so increase for us for us yes 1.91 less the decrease in the bond
correct right so a net increase of 1.1 yeah 5.9% so we held the tax rate at 2 and a half% what what do we think the tential override amount would be for school roughly 400
400k yeah is that worth roughly and Sarah what they do to the tax rate the override for schools the total rate would still comeing in at to 3.6 so is it worth it for that small amount of
money and plus now we've got another 200,000 that we haven't spent right on Capital in taxation we don't do the senior center so that will reduce this rate oh no you
it's already out it's but I I take your point though I mean what's the if if it were a bigger chunk right I can see that yeah right it doesn't seem to be yeah feel like a lot of times we're sitting here trying to guess what we think the
voters want to do and when you come up against something like education I think sometimes if the number's big enough it's worth it to put it in front of people and let debate it out make a decision but I agree 400k is is not enough kind of if you did the entire SCH
to meeting floor it's just not enough if you did the entire school yeah as an override but that doesn't make sense given the way got a question and sorry is a um an
argument that has been made about essic is override is that they segregate the school and ask for an override only for the school and that makes it Target of
the schools and that if I personally am to convince them that if they have an overline they should make it partly for the fire department partly for the Poli and partly for the school and if we go out and say well just to prove that Manchester will pass
an override we're going to have an override just for the school it's really going to undercut that okay that's fine that's fair makes sense yeah photo right well we haven't voted on the
capital yet okay right okay you want to do that so we would we would have another 200,000 to pay to O from taxation if we leave no he's already pulled it
out started oh it's still on the sheet that's why I'm confused in the new sheet is not in the requested adjust it's under the taxation list under article five oh you're right
you're right yeah I didn't move it out of that but it isn't in the tax rate right okay because I was pulling the request adjusted um column into the tax rate spread um tab the funding sources off to the right is just like for reference
only yeah yeah yeah gotcha just to show where it was coming from yeah you've got that 305 oh I see okay I see Tom voted that that's so the green column that says
3,158 875 that's the number that's the number that's the capital number that ties includes but it doesn't include the 400,000 additional for the road Northern rotunda Northern
rotunda it just all coming from fund balance so should it have a net zero tax that doesn't impact tax but the requested amount will change amount would be 3,715 1875 is that correct 400 and 300 no be
an additional 1 no sorry what do you ask what are you adding so requested adjustment would be 3975 no be 4 million we're adding 1.2 million to it we've got 800 from fund balance for rotunda and 400 in fund
balance 400 for Road that's 1.2 1.2 so I've got 3.21 4215 eight is that 8 875 875 get those glasses and the funding sources would essentially reflect Reserve
prach right yeah with yeah 3, 15, 875 from Taxation and 1.2 from fund balance well only adding 100,000 it's a little different because we're adding um 1.2
coming out of fund balance did but there's already 300 and six so it's 1.56 and then there's oh so there's 200 from the sewer and there's 55 from the harbard one away okay are
you are you down into Enterprise funds is that where that 306 is coming from you're talking about when the last page of the bottom here the fund balance is what was on the list and now we're adding 1.2
million and the taxation number is dropping down to 178 4900 right yes and so and the capital exclusion is still the 660
correct two is 200 and harbor 65 so again I'm that Capital exclusion since we already approved it I'm just showing it continuing forward so we're not giving it back but we're not adding more did we we had a capital exclusion
last year for 660 yes the year before we didn't right okay yeah so that was for the um feasibility study no for S6 Elementary oh that's right the right right right okay so I
might well there might be an extra 200,000 under SE because we have 200,000 for plant upgrades but we all still have the 3.1 million from the bond last year to do the whole thing do we really need both next
year is additional 200 there's an additional 200 yeah that we we definitely want to keep that we need that to and that that should be coming from the Enterprise fund itself right Greg that's not coming from taxation yes yes that's correct so
that's so that's that's built into the rate that keeps us kind of solvent for the for the popup things okay maintenance and then for the water meters we expecting
that we're not going to issue that entire Bond not the entirety so that inial part of it it will be paid for it through that meter fee that's been before we finish the project using the money we've
collected so that won't have the impact on the tax rate that we expected last year okay and that will hit that's hitting people Bill people just got they saw their first $25 okay I know I'm talking about when
will we Bond it plant well um so do an anticipation note later this spring just because cash flow is starting to I heard get pinched so um so
the bond will hit the tax rate in fiscal year 27 okay we may have a anticipation note payment in 26 okay depending on timing of everything right you have a year your
first payment yeah perhaps silly question if we already voted on that we voted on that last meeting so it's being Implement that was that 7.5 divided between the two p and and meters meters and you know what I realized sorry sewer sewer and meters sewer yeah what I
realized is we're talking about when we approve them we're talking about the hit to the tax rate correct but it's not really hitting in that year corre right right so it's been authorized to a town vote but it's implemented hits the tax rate when it's needed which is and when
is a sewer B going to hit that'll be 27 as well okay but again we may do an anticipation note yeah yeah you can do an anticipation note for a while yeah um and every year that you renew it you can pay it down um so you don't issue
long-term debt oh okay in the full amount right so you take a not you pay it off with the meter with the collection so just kind of looking out we're talking 27 now which means 28 isn't far away what do we think about
Essex Elementary in terms of timing timing yeah was talking yeah so it's uh I think it would be probably like a a
spring a 28 construction and then a couple of years at least of construction so approval in 27 and then um starting to hit the tax rate in end of 27 definitely in 28
no he's saying later I think it's it's it's to be solidified still I've only seen some very preliminary schedules no um but uh we had interviews for Hors project manager last night
actually and uh some of the candidates were showing schedules and I think I recall saying you know one of them this was the same OPM that we had for our project right I think they were showing a 27f vote um to go forward and that's
that's to authorize final design okay which then takes about a year okay and um so fall of 28 early 29 so it's it's probably probably actually at beginning at 29 it's probably more accurate start
which would be ler that's later than I thought later right so that impacts you long term so it it's vers four tomorrow I don't don't go by my data but U it starts to you know close in on that
end of debt that we were trying to track originally right yeah by time you for for this for the complete the construction it's it's pretty close yeah and you don't you know when they start construction you don't start paying all of that until yeah yeah it's it's
increments that would be really good because we've been thinking about 2032 yeah When U now opb's finishing up hopefully a little earlier and U I think the key issue is we'll have three we'll have three
schools currently on the tax bill and getting away from that three school debt problem because the high school rolls off okay we're gonna he's got something we're going to look at for long term can we hold this off yeah till we get to
long term is that okay yeah yeah and can we nice to finish solidify the fiscal year 26 capital is that okay or do we have to talk about longterm before we can solidify this no I mean just so we don't have surpris us when we get into the
long term that we I mean I think we we're talking about some of this already like the senior center what what are the implications of going out another year yeah so I think this is healthy but yeah I I don't think we need to go out five years just what's on the boundary of the
current year we're looking yeah yeah so we came down that we're not going to include the 200,000 for the senior center is that correct personal we don't I think anytime you're fundraising and have some sense of urgency that's a good thing yeah and and bonding around it reduces
the urgency right fundraising experts may say differently but I don't know we'll wait for that okay hold on Nate has his hand Nate yeah so I just wanted to say one thing about the senior center um when we did the Rotunda um you know
there was a lot of support and I think a lot of you know demand for having some visual renderings or some guidelines of what we were actually going to be constructing um so you know maybe we don't do the full 200,000 but if we
could do some smaller amount that could get us through a conceptual design that can produce you know 3D renderings at a you know say $50,000 to get us started that kind of straddles the line of not
going full in but providing people that might donate you know a visual of what they are putting their money towards thank you what do people think of that well it's I I appreciate the comment and
you know I don't know chicken or the egg um uh it seems 50,000 shouldn't be very hard to come up with right that that's almost fund balance no but I mean for donations donations are
got we've got a grant right now 50,000 Grand it's what I was told that were spending that's for the consultant that's gonna so that's committed to the fundraiser yeah oh the 50,000 we're spending I thought that we had 50,000 I thought we were going out to hire somebody to do design and then we had
50,000 to do that you got the grant to hire someone to do fundraising hold on so we we prioritize the fundraising plan with that 50,000 so we haven't gone out to bid on the design at all we we have
we have bids okay we haven't awarded anything okay awaiting funding to make that award well to a degree that's that's a decision then right that prioritize going after the fundraiser before you
had renderings in a way I mean I'm not being I'm not criticizing saying fine it's um um yeah I I was hoping that we could come up with at least some design money
to to move it forward yeah yeah now you want us to try to raise that privately then we will do that I think that's a sentiment is that correct okay so if I have this
right we're talking about approving a total of in capital projects of 4,258 75 is that
correct I95 we've added 400 to the road resurfacing and we've added 800 for the Rotunda which isn't here surfacing we already had 300,000
and we're adding 400 to it it's G be 700 700 that was my understanding correct that is that is correct that's what it takes us to get to the 1.3 whatever it is so you agree with a 4,25
875 okay yes and then do we also vote on the funding sources probably do right so I move to approve what yes I move to approve the capital budget fiscal year
206 capital budget in the amount of$ 4,215 1875 to be funded 1,784 n00 from taxation yes 76 1,56 1,56 yes um from fund balance
660,000 in capital exclusion from last year no it's a new capital exclus it's a new it's a new capital exclus they're just one year okay 200,000 from the sewer Enterprise fund and 65,000 from Harbor
funds that all add up Andrea should and Sarah for those listening that that excludes the $200,000 from the from the um from the new center the new
um it does not include any funding okay does not in clear okay good okay do I have a second to my motion second Mory seconds any discussion are our numbers okay Andrea I had moved everything from fund
balance over to oh ta okay and what does it put in for the Rotunda what's in there 800,000 very good good okay and that is expecting that we won't get the czm
grant of a million right and that we'll get an additional 200,000 from CPC Dean's going to make that argument for us okay and where does that leave Pleasant Street it gives
them 1.3 million to do he said he needed I think it so Sarah you have 1,784 900 for taxation yes and then
1,506 for fund balance yes and I have 660 for the capital exclusion y 100,000 for sewer and 65,000 for har yep yes what's the final number against 41 4 215875
25,000 what's the matter $25 off $25 there's no $25 on this oh wait a minute $875 and um and then we got 900 you mobile radio upgrade you got a
73750 here you're right it shouldn't be if you're good I'm good it shouldn't be all zeros you're right right yeah I'm $25 off oh no no no no there's a there's a
73750 and a 37 350 so that comes out to the zeros there's no 25 once request the numbers that you the that you just so the change was um I have $7,200
for Mobile Radio upgrades yeah but in the prec I have 7,175 right that's the $25 that's the $25 idea yeah so which number is it to know we pay attention to this stuff which number
is it the 7175 or the 7200 no he reduced it he reduced it it's the 7175 so the total is correct the amount from taxation can drop by $25 875 correct
1784 875 p level but the overall Capital number is still accurate just talking about the difference no the difference is is this one number was 7175 and this one was 7200 so it should have been 717
right any more discussion take a vote Tom yes Dean yes Mory yes G yes Andy yes Peter yes and Sarah yes
okay finish that and tax includes the school so we don't need to unless the school comes in a lot higher that yeah well there's the issue it won it's I don't think so either okay so now you've got come in a
little um do we want to vote on OPB tonight or wait till next week when Dan Sherman's here sh there I'd like to wait till next week when s when Sherman's there
okay yeah and will send us a new one BR just the capital it's cleaned up yeah now you've got and my links and making sure yeah you've got long-term you got something for us do you want to do that no well
let's look at it look see if there's any I mean you're going to make a version four and let's just see if there's anything else that needs to be adjusted in the version four how's that work Greg what are you passing out this is a re revision to the
facility long range facility planning thank you um the last one we had received Peter I think was on December 4th at least that's what I sent to garle this afternoon what was on my that was
version two yeah it was version two and this is version threey bre would you be able to send us by um email tomorrow or something breion for so basically the the difference between
two and three is just pushing some things out of this um to try to not have an additional 2 and a half or capita on top of at two and a half assume operating
now sometimes we can come in at two for operating I mean our history has been between two and two and a half traditionally um but assuming so the worst case two and a half on operating um and and then what what additional
taxation for for additional bonding um and so so the top half lists the projects starts off with the water and sewer upgrades which we have already approved
that's that 7.5 million the water meters and the sewer plant upgrades right so the list includes that includes dredging um that assumes that we will get a million dollars in grant money from the state hold on just a minute
Peter are you following what we're doing slightly slightly I'm afraid I don't have the sheet but yeah do you have the facility financing plan from December let me take a look I I have to go back aways and find out it was version two what was the date in
December do you remember it was facility financing version two okay thank you so I think the date was December 4th Peter thank you 4th 2024 y sorry go ahead so I'm just I'm
reviewing the list so dredging past I have 19 million so the the number in millions is that first column after the project name and then taen Street Bennett Street the DPW
garage showing ess6 Elementary our share in 27 million that's a guess obviously as all of these numbers are guesses but um um if we went if we went forward with a public safety building and some major
renovation to town hall at 30 million um that should be a 36 million in resilient project seaw walls and puls I'll explain that in a minute and
then 25 years from now I'm showing a $70 million um bond to relocate the sewer plant to a new home which may or may not happen and then I show the the number of
years for the Bond 10 to 30 years so then I show Revenue different Revenue sources before we get to taxation at the botom so I'm showing that water Capital fee that we just implemented you saw the first
bill $25 per meter per quarter um I'm assuming that we would Institute a similar Capital fee for the sewer operations and the sewer fee isn't that a completely different
theory yes it is but it's it's it's it's similar in terms of relying on the Enterprise fund for the fees toate that money so you wouldn't put a fee and you would increase the
rates you could do it one of two ways you could just increase the rate or you could identify a capital Improvement if it would help to explain to voters why their rates just went up so much um I'm showing um the new revenues from
CST starting in 28 for phase one and then second phase in 34 again lots of assumptions here right and then as we retire debt just taking our existing debt and as it as we
pay it down every year it frees up money rather than giving that back to the taxpayers I'm showing coming back towards new bonds similarly for school debt and then um this is the line that
needs some work but the liabilities being retired so both so the two major liability OPB and the pension so OPB now um ear it's going to be earlier um and and I'm not I
didn't I only took what we were paying in I didn't add the picking out of the fund which we can do um so then I get so I I those are all revenues that offset any need for new
taxation so so up top going back up top so in 26 I'm showing that we have um about about half of that 7.5 being um
issued and we begin payment and some of that for pasas as well so that what line is that on Gray so I'm up top now back up top I'm under
FY 26 column okay and so the first line Water and Sewer upgrades that 315,000 for half of that bonding and then for p
okay and so that requires new debt Services of 483 and the water Capital fee paying 100% of that so we don't need any other Revenue sources for 26 so then I go to 27
so then I'm showing the full 7.5 million being issued and payment being needed actually probably a year ahead of myself but this is where the fine tuning can take place but anyways it's it's instructive to walk through the model
um so so I'm also showing the dredging monies being needed so I have 287,000 of debt payments needed on that new 2.5 million do does the grants we receive to cover dredging is that
federal or state that's State and it's not a federal pass through it's not a federal pass through okay um I so additional P Money ramping up the bonding for and and the project ramping up they show the beginnings of
tapen Street the beginnings of a DPW garage design final Design One um so so that totals new total debt service of 1.8 million and so to pay for that I'm
showing I'm just walking down the column here a 500,000 from the capital water Capital fee a new sewer Capital fee of 500,000 I've got some retired School Town debt and school debt leaving me a
net new tax revenue needed of 7475 that translates to an additional tax rate of 2 and a half based on FY 26 budget increase this is 27 we looking 2.49 that's an increase over
26 um and and that that two and a half% increase raised just under 16 million and then I show you how that 16 15 million is divided up by project so of that 15.75 million 3.75
went to the Sewer upgrade project six million is going into P one and a half into the DPW the facility 2 million to tap in and 2.5 to to dredge in anybody with me one question I I'm
looking at version two and version three has the P gotten cheaper or have you just I pushed it out you pushed it out y well so so then similar drill walking
in 28 so I was trying to take I was trying to get lower so I pushed a few things out and again you can see at the bottom what additional money is and where they're going to um and so that requir Ires just under
a 1% additional tax so in 27 theoretically we we've hit people up with a 5% tax increase in 28 we're hitting them up with a 3 3.5 again all the assumptions behind it
but so if the Elis Elementary is pushed out correct then you could push something from fiscal year 27 into 28 that's right yeah okay exactly so um yeah if if well I don't I in 27 I didn't have
any for the elementary school in 28 I'm showing 2 million for the elementary school right what I'm saying is if the 2 million will move to 29 correct then that then you could move something to 28 to have right small yeah right yeah you can mix and match here
right so it it just keeps going yep and and so what I'm showing is by 33 I'm alternating every other year a high hit at 5% total and closer to three to three
and a half um so at by 33 um we're done um for for a long chunk of time um we've increased the taxes for Capital
purposes um 10.31% percentage points um and we raised $80 million for a capital project um so then we we we continue on
and what I want to show you then and then in 34 so this is where you see at the very bottom be which which had normally been new taxes or new tax revenue needed yes
this shows of Sur plus as a negative number that's a surplus in this this rubic so I've got 1.1 million so that and you see that number AC continuing across that's where we start putting in
money towards different resiliency projects other other coverts seaw walls Etc oh you just pay a dividend to the shareholder yes sorry that was a joke right
I was I was looking forward to it but um so over the 25 years or so that adds up to $36 million that could be put in put towards various resilien these projects raising seaw walls waterproofing Town
Hall more the next p etc etc yeah great good so then 35 I'm showing and again this is all lot of assumptions right this assumes we're going forward with the public safety building yeah okay big assumption I show
that in hitting in 35 but we've retired enough and we have new revenues coming in pension paid off uh CST second phase of of Taxation so that we don't have to raise taxes
we're able to borrow that $30 million but without raising taxes because we have these other sources coming in you will this all hold true of course not but it gives us at least a road map and a sense of what is possible very
helpful and and so you can you can continue it out and then finally I'm showing in 2050 I think it is yeah 2050 I'm showing that huge number for the sewer plan right um and again we can
basically do that without raising taxes because we have retired enough things have you know enough you know just different factors assuming the price of doing anything doesn't increase yeah that that 70 million is a
total guess sure yeah yeah um so it I'm actually even more encouraged I mean this wasn't great in terms of but now you can adjust it more but we can adjust it by percentage points with the with the opad yeah right because I
wasn't I didn't think about pulling in the the trust monies yeah um so what was a big stretch be becomes I think within within reach y y I think it becomes within
um is you make the big assumption that you're doing all of these project which is a big assumption right and is there a similar second half to the pensions you sto yeah paying extra yeah so um what do I
show up in 34 or 35 so in 34 I show a big increase in that REI in the retire liability reality the 744 is that just not refunding anymore
but also taking money out no no so so below it I'm showing the the the op yeah um we can't wait a minute I show that in above so I can't we can't take money out of the
retirement all we're paying off is the unfunded liabilities the retirements paid by the state so the only money coming to us the only areas where I can show additional opep using the trust is in those four
years 30 through 33 because I've already assumed it in the 1.25 number I I assume the non-payment to the in 29 right we don't have anything in 29 I I did so I started a year later yeah
yeah yeah yeah so you could start a year earlier yeah so but we still have the regular pension payments this is just the unfunded liability because we're fully funded at that point no we're just we're fully funded on our past liability
correct on the unfunded liability yeah but we still have the ongoing retirement right but it'll significantly cut that down right so um you know so for example in 29 where we show that 2 2.45% increase
we can take a percentage point off of that more than a percentage point two percentage points right uh how much how much are we drawing down with trust every year that's what we yeah right yeah whatever that one to 2% right yeah
probably one and a half yeah yeah so that makes it a 1% increase I think it is very very helpful obviously a big hit is fisal year 27 I would just say on the project
column just as a high altitude quick observation um taen and Bennett are on the list but if we're looking out 25 years there probably should be a placeholder for one or two or three others that'll be in there yes um so just as a what if I also think dredging
you know maintaining the asset of that Harbor is important I think about showing future drudging showing yeah I mean even if you plugged in a number at say 2040 and started it again it would probably be realistic a little more
realistic and it will leave less for res resiliency projects correct yeah it's what it impact it won't very helpful in theory you know the har will be generating money right you know assuming
those new docks get in and but but yeah lot again lot of variables going to increase our fees after clustering glass keep up with the is yep okay so a lot of food for thought
here to digest um great hopefully you find it help I will do a new version great yeah if you can send us an electronic copy for those can well you can play with it too you can do your own assumptions kick things
around the formulas are there and you can serious assumptions okay thank you I just add one thing real quick yes sorry um to mory's point Greg on the uh
you know you show taing and Bennett and there's probably a couple others out there this this is just the kind of facility and major projects in front of us but my understanding was the kind of 3ish to 4ish million normal Capital which typically on a typical year would
include you know projects like Walker Road or Pleasant Street or you know Mill and Forest like those are kind of separate Capital that are still you know on an ongoing basis so I think that will be some of the pipe work yeah that's included in the regular two and a
half perent per year tax increase right I just want to clarify that for you know like yeah there might be another big assumes we're continuing the the four million what I call regular capital okay so I guess we can wait and discuss
OPB next week you have any updates Greg um no I do not um we have well before we go to approving minutes let's just because we got members of the select board
here I received the agenda for the Monday meeting joint with the select board um our meeting's posted to start at 7 at 6:30 I think there's an overview of the operational pres no we're going to
do that at 7 the operational audit yes we'll start off with that at seven okay and then and okay and then move on to those budget topics okay yeah so on Monday and I'll be sent do on Monday There's an
operational audit presentation um and then there's to go over the fiscal year 26 operating budget fiscal year 26 capital budget fiscal year 26 school budget and long range facility plans to go over that with
select board that's Monday Monday Monday March 3D and then on Wednesday March 5th we have the Auditors in and Dan Sherman and Dan and I'm going to
ask to start with the town Auditors there's a possibility I might be late so I might need you to start the meeting corre okay that's why I want to do the town a just for because I want to hear the Dan I don't think I will be late
because I I'm doing interviews but it's it seems like it's going to be over earlier than originally anticipated so we're not interviewing many people so I think it won't be an issue I will be remote next week just okay not that it's relevant okay did you
want to talk about oh so we can't do the school until the 19th right because they're voting on the 18th yeah I mean I think we're going to have a good sense of it after the fourth so you're so at your meeting next week
you'll okay you'll have a good sense of it okay so the question is is do we need to meet on the 12th um we have the annual report to do so that would be a good time to do the bulk of the annual report if it's well
we usually don't do it in a meeting no I understand so I'm wondering if we don't meet on the 12 we get that report out and then we can finish the report the last Wednesday the
last Thursday of the month well and and we'll have time on the 19th to discuss the reports if if we're just doing the schools on the 19th it' be wonderful to wrap it up on the 19th if you there's no way we can't wrap it up on the 19th if we don't have a
final School number until the 18th I I just this I know I know like I said I think I think you're going to know the the last week you know March 27th is the month before toe have it done on the 27th
that'll and we can get it to the printer that allowing number will be okay okay and I know I do have a zba meeting on the 26 it post okay so we won't meet on the
12 that everyone in agreement with that yes because I was going to be absent on the 12th anyway well that's why we're cancel sure do without you okay so I'll have to make sure that so I'll send tomorrow to you the
final um operational audit report it's been edited oh it's been edited it's been edited okay okay great so not nothing not a major TR no major changes but some edits correcting mistakes
and a little more clarity certain areas so I'll get that out to everybody tomorrow so Sarah just to review so we have so I'm in March and I'm just reviewing where we've concluded on all this okay so we have selectman meeting
on the 3D at 700 PM we have a regular meeting on the 5th at 7 yes our next meeting after that is the 19th at 7 at 7 Y and then the
27th is a is a meeting yeah Thursday the 27th exactly that okay got it I'll be your way on the 19
okay I won't be here next week I miss all the fun I miss all the fun you love that auditor who's gonna bring the punch so with this joint meeting with the Selectmen you're going to have the
numbers that we've approved yes so I don't have to be preparing anything just clarifying y okay um so we have minutes to approve but Dean you sent comments right that other
people have not seen right okay so we're going to defer all these minutes to next and make sure that everything gets out to people okay anything else take a motion to adjourn so move
move seconds all in favor Peter okay thanks a lot thanks everybody thanks thank you thanks truck now the DPW did a great job