It is 7:01 on Thursday 22nd. >> January 22nd. Sorry, I don't have a copy of the agenda because my printer broke. And I will call the finance committee meeting to order. Um I have with me in
the room for the finance committee Dean Nadis, um John Croft, Andy Alderman, Moy Kraton, Peter Twining, and myself Sarah Melish. I expect that Gar will Morris will be joining us shortly. Um, in
addition, I have Ann Harrison from the select board and Andrea Main Phil, the finance director. Um, and so I think we're going to change the order um of the uh of what we're doing.
And um we're going to start with Council on Aging. And we have Mary Miner, right? Yep. >> Here. He's our new council on aging director. >> Welcome, Mary. >> Thank you.
>> And then it's on the job. There is my my budget. >> Yeah. So, what what we want to do is we want to go through the um operations and the capital budget. I don't know if you have anything on the capital budget. Um, >> not yet.
>> And then we'll take a vote >> on the operations budget. Okay. >> Um, now you had sent us an email, Andrea, um, explaining the ch some changes. Could you just explain those to us? >> Walk us through. So, um, when Mariana
were actually meeting about the budget, we went over the salaries and realized that the, um, director salary did not have a cola included, um, for July 1st. Um and the senior clerk um the assistant in the office is going up to step four um in the union contract because she's
reached 10 years. >> Um so that's those adjustments. And then speaking with Mary, she has um currently two applicants uh for senior workup potentially a third. Um the amount has gone up to $2,000 um for that. Uh so we only needed 6,000. So I was able to
reduce that line. So, can you explain the senior work off paying people >> kind of um I need it's one of those things where I need an appropriation >> um for it u but they don't actually get paid but >> because of the IRS it's income to them
we have to put it through payroll so I need an appropriation for it and what we do is we kind of like pay the town back and abate their taxes >> okay that's what I thought >> that's kind of how that works and that's why that shows up there Okay. I'm confused what the position is. Senior workoff.
>> Senior workoff. So, um, seniors who qualify can come and u volunteer to the town and they get a real estate tax abatement. Um, but we have to >> take the money from somewhere. Yes. >> In order to get it into the payroll system. >> Exactly. So, they don't receive any
money. They just It was the workoff part that I wasn't sure about. Yeah. Um and then the um expenses u we did reduce the gasoline oil a little bit just
because we have the two um electric vehicles now. >> Take my seat off. >> We're on the council on age and budget. We changed the order. Nice page numbers, right?
Complaints. He can't read them. >> No, I need my microscope. >> I do that a lot. Sorry. Did you give him one of these things, too? >> Sure. >> I didn't. >> I have a stash here. >> Here we go. >> That's why you can't distribute the video.
So, we're we're on the Council on Aging Budget and Andrea's explained that there's changes in the salary lines um because there wasn't a cola included for the director and the senior clerk is
going up to step step four because she was 10 years of service. And Mary Miner is here who's the new director of council language. >> M gar >> I know those explaining the senior work off we were able to reduce because we
have two um potentially three applicants um and they're eligible for roughly $2,000 um each for real estate a >> and is there a deadline on the applications? >> Believe so. I'm not sure what that
>> I don't know off the top of my head, but um >> could you speak up more, Mary? >> I feel like they haven't. >> Sorry. I don't I don't know off the top of my head, but um without really looking into it, I know we have two people that are active and have been involved with this program before. >> Um
>> I feel like they have until the end of this fiscal year because it it goes to right to the next year. But the fiscal year was my experience in the hunt was the fiscal year was different than the it ran from um September 1st to August 30th.
>> Yes. >> Um on the calendar year. So um I'm not sure if it's still I don't Yeah. Um but nonetheless uh we do have two people that are active um and maybe a third. So um this budget
is more than Is that >> then fitting? >> Okay. Because originally there was 10,000. Got it. Okay. So, we're we're covering three, >> right? >> Okay. >> But sometimes we don't know. Yeah. How many we have in the old leader, >> right?
>> And it's on my list to uh explore with some seniors in town. Um I go along. >> So, um but yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I I experienced it in the hunt. It's a great program. people were very happy with you know getting a reduction
on their tax bill. So I think you know it's great >> and we were talking today too about like you know different departments and it is helpful for departments also >> right? Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, it gives uh different departments a
break and, you know, someone to help out and, you know, it's a good it's a win-win, you know. >> I've heard positive. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. They're they really contribute. I have the um tax prep program coming up
and we have one of the um senior workup people will assist with um you know getting people in and out and all that. So >> that's a great help. >> Yeah. >> So I have a question. >> Do you have sort of a minimum number of hours you hope people will do as a
threshold? And I'm just sort of thinking about your time. >> Yeah. >> Filing all this. If somebody works for two hours, it's quite a burden for >> Yeah. Um Yeah. I don't know. Um I mean I
know it can vary. I think >> I think it's up to 175 hours. So >> yeah, I was going to say at least 125. So it may have increased >> within the time frame. >> So the credit they receive depends on the hours put in.
>> Yeah. We usually try and encourage them to do the total number of hours and what we do is we don't do like include them on payroll every week. Um we wait until they reach that maximum threshold and then um kind of do the abatement and everything all at the same time. >> Great. >> Peter, Mary or Andrea, does this comply
with the state's requirement for the library budget? Are we in I know there's a council >> Oh, council. Excuse me. I'm in the wrong zone. Don't worry, >> it's the blues library.
>> So, I have a tough big level question in that looking at the budget, it hasn't gone up like the other ones and I'm concerned it are we just more efficient or are we cutting services? So, >> um again, I'm here just three weeks so
I'm not even aware of what is viable and what isn't. Um, you know, my goal is not to cut services at all. Um, but I I need to understand what is working for people and what isn't. So
>> So we >> Yeah, I mean I I would say in response to your question, I don't know yet. Um, and I if anything I would say let's put a pause on it and and work together in
the next year to see what is working and what isn't and then we'll go from >> just yeah a general statement you know this this budget has been you know not it's been small for a number of years and the people it services are the ones
that paid for the very building. >> Right. Yes. Of course. Right. Right. Um, and that's the goal is to maybe, you know, is to find ways to support all of that in them. And, uh, so yeah, >> thank you.
>> Yeah. Thank you. >> So, how many vans do we have now? >> We have we have two gas uh, vans and we have an electric van and I think another electric van. Yeah, we have two electric bands of
>> gas. Right. So, um the electric bands have not been used in the time I've been there, or if they have, it's been very, uh minimal because the charge is um it tends to run out in the cold air a lot quicker. So, um
uh you know, but you know, it's something that the drivers um you know, and are happy to use. So, um, you know, >> that's what we have available right now. >> Yeah,
>> we've been in talks with the state about the efficiencies of those electric vehicles. >> Yeah, they're aware. >> They're aware that >> Yeah, they are actually looking at some of the um uh information in the files. Um, I noticed that uh that they have
been notified and I have a, you know, I worked with um the DOT, the Department of Transportation representative when I was in the hunt, so I have that connection and I plan to uh follow up with him. >> You have a lot on your to-do list.
>> You have a lot on your to-do list. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's okay. >> Yep. Yep. >> Makes my day busy. >> So, what's the usage like on the bands that >> I'm sorry, say that. What's the usage like in the vans? Do they >> Oh, yeah. It's we have it just varies each day. I'm I'm staggered by that to
tell you the truth. >> Um I mean my experience in the hot and again I don't mean to compare but we had a lunch program and so we were kind of limited and we would pick up people in the town and we would take them out off island as they say. We went to you know
market basket runs and that sort of thing. But the idea of medical appointments and um and even just you know things like so um getting your hair done or um we have a couple of people who go to employment very part-time but
it makes a world of difference for them. So you know it is very busy. I'm I'm in the middle of all that we do have outings that people are going to you know tomorrow they're going out for lunch. So that's a van that's dedicated
to that event exclusively. So um I I think it's great, you know, that we provide as much service as we can, especially here, you know, so it's good and and people seem to like it. We do have frequent flyers, I have to say, but
um and so that for me like how can we work around that for those who don't call us on a regular basis. So anyway, >> are we using the the kata the CATA service? >> I I have an u actually I do have a
meeting with them next week to find out what you know what we can and can't do together. >> Okay. So yeah, again on my list. >> I was just going to say to to John's point, I know a couple people in town who have special needs who are younger.
I mean, they're like 30, >> you know, or almost 30 and use it for employment to get to places and and and if they didn't have that, they couldn't do that. >> And I'm well aware I've met >> it's really good >> over the phone anyway, some of them. So,
>> so it's coming along, you know, and we'll just >> I was there like a list of allowed ban uses or you just kind of do whatever they ask. >> Um, no. I I I I mean, we're we're limited in terms of real travel. Um we
don't uh like somebody called the other day, they wanted to go to Salem Hospital and and you know, the line was it it that is a really long uh trip, you know, from here. Um you know I in looking at what services
we provide in terms of you know the priorities for medical uh employment um shopping you know food shopping and and a trip to you know um even you know like Walmart and those
places. So, um, do we restrict? I I think that I mean, no, >> we try to accommodate, >> but, um, but I think, you know, we'd have to take it on a case-by case basis in terms of, you know, how realistic we can really accommodate that, you know.
>> Yep. >> Should we create a distinct policy on terms of for the breadth of that? >> Yeah. I mean, I it's interesting that you bring this up. I'm learning more and more. I I I want to talk to the board about what what where are the policies
if there are policies and and what we need to do together to develop them further down the road. So, um in terms of an actual policy process, I don't I haven't come across it yet, but
I'm still looking because I know it's important. Um but I my plan is to talk to um the COA board and see what they recommend and maybe they can enlighten me as to what was in place previous and what we need to work
towards together. So any more questions on council on aging? I kept I checked the capital list and there was nothing on the capital list. So it's just the operating right. Um, so do I have a motion to approve
the 234,068 budget for council on aging? >> Moved. Second. >> Thank you. >> Any discussion? Vote. Dean. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> John Andy. >> Yes. >> Gar. >> Yes. >> Mory.
>> Yes. >> Peter. >> Yes. >> Sarah votes yes. >> Thank you. >> No. >> Thank you. One thing in the um some of the emails I think Tony said that um the future senior center will be a large
topic of discussion. It will require additional operating funds but that he wants to talk about that later. So I don't know if that makes us contingent upon that. >> No, it wouldn't impact this year's it wouldn't impact the fiscal year 27 budget. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Right. But yeah, we'll have that
um >> facility. Is that with facilities? Do you >> No, I think we would have probably discussed it tonight, but Tony's on vacation, so >> you know. Okay. >> Thank you very much, Mary.
>> Thanks. And welcome. >> Good luck. >> I guess >> stay safe everybody. Good. >> Next we were going to do the health department and Wendy Hensbury is on Zoom
>> and it's the next page >> Oh, I'm sorry. The prior page. >> My stuff is apparently going backwards. So the salaries look relatively consistent. It's no change, just cola entry fees. Is that correct?
>> Correct. Um I guess there were two things I wanted to discuss and that's the hazardous waste and the professional services. So Wendy, can can you explain to us
which inspections are outsourced? >> So they be professional services. >> Sure. So professional services once encompass the um the inspectional services that I
perform um in their entirety. So the food, the housing and the septic. Now it is covering the professional services provided by uh biomarine um laboratories. They do beach water
testing for us um during the the summer season. It um includes the uh sharps pickup. So the company that um does the sharps
pickup and it also includes um sorry I am completely blanking on the third thing uh rabies. Um, so if there's any um animals
that need to be tested for uh communicable diseases such as rabies, that also comes out of there. We that variable um there's no there's no way to tell. This year I think we had two. Um you
know, previous years we've had none. Other years we've had more than that. So, >> so you're doing all of the inspections? Is that correct? >> Yes. All of the um the core inspections for the board of health are all done by myself. Yes.
>> The the health the like grocery stores, restaurants, and >> Yep. pools, restaurants, um the uh sorry, the septic. So, all of the perk testing and
um the I I will say that the tobacco control is done by a regional collaboration. Um they're state trained. So, they come in for um to review that, but other than that, all of all of the
inspections done are done by me locally. >> And you inspect the houses when issues are raised. >> Yes. Yes, we do. You have a little kitten behind you there. It keeps popping his head up. >> Oh, I'm I'm fostering um eight kittens. Uh
>> okay. >> I I didn't know. I had no idea, but they're a joy. >> Um anybody else have questions on the professional services? >> Did Well, how long have you been How
long has you been there? Since 2025. >> When did you start? Uh, I started in November of 2022 in Manchester. >> Okay. Okay. So, you've been here a while. I would I would expect the amount of effort for
um ocean testing to go up given the popular popularity of the beach and the problems we've been having. >> Um, so beach so beach water testing uh is is dictated by the state. We um
partly covered by state funds um the actual testing but the collection and any exceedences are covered by the local budget um and exceedences can be uh ve
very variable um often weather dependent. >> Yes, I understand. >> I think the Harvard Advisory Academy is going to advise more testing Oh, >> so that might be a separate item that
we're happy to collaborate with um but would need uh a set of funds dedicated to like harbor um water quality testing >> out of the harbor funds out of the water funds.
>> We we're always willing to work with people and and try to find that money. Um, so the other thing is is I noticed that the hazardous waste collection expense is pretty high and we only
collect um what$,650 in fees. >> So if I >> Yeah, go ahead. >> I was just going to give like a little bit of of history and then sort of bring
it up. So, we just started collecting fees last year was the first year to do it. So, that was uh that is what we collected. It's a flat fee of $25. And
the the collection of hazardous waste is necessary for a lot of reasons. the state requires that, you know, it it be collected that we as the town end up being responsible
for it. Um, and I I can't express enough how important it is in the long run to be proactive and set up events where people can dispose of this versus having it end
up in the solid waist stream or on the side of the road or ending up at your transfer station. um which is what happens when people don't have you know a an available event to go to. Uh we also participate in reciprocity which
means that people who um uh live in our town are able to participate pay to go to other towns and their events the same as other towns can um pay to participate in our event. um which is really
beneficial. The reason that it's going up and that there's such a jump this year is the contracts, the state contracts that have governed it are
um being renewed. Well, we hope they're being renewed. extremely expensive to um you know appropriately collect and dispose of these hazardous waste materials. Um so the the disposal fees
for the companies uh have increased, their transportation and collection fees have increased and they're passing that cost on to us. We don't know what this year or the next three years state contract
um fees are going to be. We all anticipate and by all I mean everybody in the state expect it to be a significant jump from previous years. So that's >> the fees. >> Yes. And I I just want to mention about
the fees. This past year when we were looking at um you know surrounding communities and what they charge, we were very compar like we kind of took what they were charging and used it for what we were charging. >> I remember like 10 years ago I cleaned out like my basement and we reused you'd
be surprised it was in there. Um and when we back then it was like they came to your house and you told them kind of what categories of stuff you had and kind of how much and then you paid by alocart. >> Yeah, I was going to say every >> It was more than 25 bucks on past. >> Yes. And I I would say like I feel like
it's changed almost like every year since I've been here. Um sometimes they'll be like, you know, no, we cannot do any curbside pickup. Um no, we can't do like residential signups. Um you have to come to the, you know, back of town hall or, you know, transfer station or wherever. So we kind of like at the
mercy of the the vendors. >> They're doing stuff >> essentially. Yeah. That you know, they're saying, you know, we can set up here for the day or we can do this and we can do that and we can collect X Y and Z. So that's kind of what we're there's less and less companies that are doing it too.
feeling what level talent participation in the program is there any indication of >> how many people >> that >> that's various it depends on whether um people have you know there's people who
move so people who participate in it are generally those who are moving um those who are helping their senior family members clean up or clean out um and those who do it repeatedly like they're they're the ones who are, you know,
every year or two they get rid of their fertilizer or or what have you. Um, so participation varies, but it I'd say you you get a good turnout at every event. Um, it it's ne there's there's
not downtime um during the event. Uh it's a it's a very steady you know people coming through. >> Are there requests for for recycling that we cannot meet? Are there
significant things we can't we cannot accommodate in the program that that you can that can you identify? Well, >> so I was going to say that is more of a conversation to have if not with or
entirely by the um the DPW. Um I I know for us uh we generally contract with Clean Harbors which is a hazardous waste collection company that takes a lot of
different types of materials. Um you know I think the only things they don't really take are you know electronics. Um we have uh in town different programs um such as we dispose of medical sharps.
The police department disposes of um uh medications uh uh we take mercury containing thermometers, the board of health does. And the uh DPW takes waste oil and uh
fluorescent lights, at least the compact ones. Um and batteries uh rechargeables um and lithium based, not um alkaline batteries can go in the regular trash, believe it or not. So, uh and those are
all considered hazardous wastes. U there there may be some other things that I'm I'm not coming up with right this second but um Manchester does a very good job trying to uh be a complete
um you know provide full services there are a lot of changes in the work there's a lot of things that have come through you know the textiles uh you know mattresses things like that and I would definitely want to have this conversation with a DPW representative
because they would have more information. So, >> well, that that was the question. So, looking the puzzling thing is the disparity between the 11,000 and the 1650 as you brought up because the service that was described I thought
wasn't subsidized that much. I thought it was. So, what I'm wondering is if does this number include like the DBW forces all their and like the town hall and they all have their own hazardous waste budgets. >> Oh.
>> Or is this like townwide hazardous? So um no this is for the event at which Clean Harbors is contracted to come and take
uh um like oil based paints um pesticides chemicals um things of that nature. But the residents pay a subsidy when they drop it off or is it just a
>> pay $25? >> Pay $25 and that just started this past year. Um we were trying to I believe the board of health voted to do that because they were they were trying to still make
it accessible but to cover some of the expanding cost. Um, you know, because we pay for the dumpster, we pay for the, um, police detail. Um, you know, fortunately, we get the property for,
you know, free DPW let us use their space this year. So, you know, um, often it's in the back parking lot. So there are um but yes that that requested funds and what we've
previously um budgeted for it has covered just the board of health's um hazardous waste event >> and it's usually twice a year that we have that
>> it it has been in the past um with no way to afford to do that this year it was >> um It was the entire C, you know, the budget line item was eaten up by just one event. >> Okay.
>> I think one of the challenges here is, you know, this is important to do, but it's one event at $11,000 bringing in 1650, it serves 60 people. If the prices are going to go up, this this is going to get to be a bigger red hole here. And
the question is, >> can we get more people to participate and come to this? Um, we've done it and it seems like you have your 10-minute slot or your 15 minute slot, you get there on time and if you were late, you
you move quickly, but there doesn't look like there's a lot of bandwidth to take 60 people visiting and turn it to 120 or 180 or 200. >> Cost more, too, because the people who are hauling the waste are going to charge you by the pound or ton or whatever. >> Oh, I thought the 11k was kind of the
fixed number. But imagine the waste. >> No. So the so how the companies work is there's a setup a setup fee and that is a minimum
that includes a certain number of uh pounds of waste um or car car loads. Um, they charge or they have in the past charged by car load and they'll do a quarter car, a half car, and a full car.
I think the full car this past year was $68. Um, >> okay. >> And a half car was like 35 or $45. So, it
we are still paying for um the people who are going through that $25 fee is just starting to cover it, but it's based on how much um goes through the event. I know that Ellen
works very hard to um get neighbors to cooperate with each other and you know bring it in if there's just a small amount you know she'll try to um pair them up with another person going and
um so I mean there's a lot of effort to reduce the number of cars and make it like a full car load versus you know quarter or half cars. I mean, it's certainly a discussion once we
>> I'd like to move on to the medical supplies line. >> Okay. >> You lost $2,000 in your medical supplies. Was there some uh a replacement for that? Because in 2025, we were even over what you requested.
So, you know what? What's going on there? Are we covering that service somewhere else? Now, >> we are. So >> Wendy, if you want me to talk to about that. >> Yeah. Well, it's it's the revolving fund. Please do. Um >> it is. So we set up a health revolving
fund if you remember recall a few years ago. Um and so we get reimbursement for the flu vaccines that we provide. And so we set up >> insurance carriers. Right. >> Right. And then we started putting that into a um health revolving fund, but um you know, we hadn't built that up yet.
So we still were budgeting it, but now we're at the point where like we're getting some money in. And so now we're able to offset that expense with that revol fund money, but we're not quite there yet to, you know, just make it a whole um in and out quite yet. >> So that's go over this year. It'll just
come out of the general fund. >> It'll come up out of the revolving. >> Yes. Yeah. >> But there'll be a way to do that. They won't say we can't give a band-aid anymore because we hit our budget for the year. >> Great. >> Okay.
>> Only if you come in D. No, I'm asking for more money from the health department. I think this is resident sensitive and it's been neglected for years. >> Any other questions on the health department operating budget?
>> I just like to see the fees be raised for the >> other ways. That seems to have a huge subsidy. >> It is. Yeah. And we were trying to be, you know, we have that reciprocity agreement. So, we just wanted to be comparable to what other communities are charging and that's what they were
charging. So, >> they charge like 50 bucks for a mattress. Used to be 150 and didn't it come down to 50? >> I don't think they >> I'm not sure that that's >> Yeah, they do that. >> They said a third party vendor. >> Yeah, there's like two places in the state that recycle. >> You have to go to the DPW and get a
plastic bag and pay. >> Yeah. Yeah, they come. But it's I mean a mattress seems to be more expensive to dispose of than as it is waste which seems a little out of sync to me. >> It does. Yeah. And um
>> I I think that they're actually fairly comparable because they're both pretty difficult to get rid of. But um and and and the mattress is a a DPW topic.
So, a little bit >> we're just we're just talking about it because it's what we think residents would be willing to pay. >> Yes. >> Right. We we also want to accessible to those who are, you know,
um need to be able to afford getting rid of hazardous waste. We we don't want to deter people um because it'll end up on the street. >> Mr. Rogers. >> Yeah. Rick Rogers, 82 Olds Essics Road. That was going to be my point, right? It
if it cost me $25 to throw out a can of a $10 can of paint. I'm going to put it in the town dumpster. >> Right. >> I agree. >> Yeah. There's there's a couple air conditioners on the side of the road street transfer station. I get one. >> It's just something to the board to
consider. It's a push me pull you. Yep. Yep. >> Anything else? Um I'll take a motion to approve the operating budget for the health department in the amount of 214,013. >> Peter moves.
>> Second. >> Mory seconds. Any discussion? >> Vote. Dean, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Gar, >> yes. >> My >> yes. >> Peter, >> yes. And >> Sarah, yes. Thank you very much, Wendy. >> Thank you very much. Have a good
evening. >> Thank you, Wendy. Enjoy your double. >> All right. >> Um, we now will move on to the library. >> Yay. >> Page 64. >> Sure.
It should be the next stage, shouldn't it? >> Well, we were on 62. We went back to 60. So, >> 64. >> I know you all received an email, I
think, from Sher. um write what she wrote her remarks which kind of repeated some of what I had had written to y'all as well. And so um I think we wanted to just uh put forth why we
have requested and found that validity from police number um which would provide us with uh increased uh abilities in a way that we feel is very responsible
and we do understand it's a tough budget here but these are not raises these are you know these are this would be increasing the amount of hours that are fulltime >> and here
>> we have three of them >> um we have three full-timers that work at the library attend this events Um, and uh, we I made we made some um, changes to other parts of our operating
budget that would offset some of that increase request. Um, which is why we thought it was still a good reason to put forth this initiative at this time. And we have had a quite uh number of years of uh asking to be open on summer
hours and that would also offset give us some help in being able to provide that service as well. But I be happy to answer any questions. Yeah, I think one of the challenges we have this year is as of today, I think
we have a shortfall of about 732,000, a gap that we're trying to close um primarily due to school budget. Um, and one of the things we're hoping to do this year is to put 420,000 into OPED,
which would fully fund it, which would mean next year we can pay over 400,000 of retirees salaries, retirey health insurance uh, premiums out of the trust fund,
which frees up a lot of money next year. This year is really tight. Um, and that's why we're trying to, you know, keep things as tight as we can and and would request that you make that
request next year. That's >> Am I wrong? I'm not saying a huge >> It's not a huge amount. >> Yeah. >> It's the 800,000, >> but you're 8,000. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Look at the difference. 400,000 is fine. It's likely that we're asking the town for a substantial increase in taxes through debt exclusions and tax increases
and now you're talking about adding Saturday services in the summers at the library. >> It's the optics of it. Sarah, I know it seems optimistic, but is there any opportunity to look at it later when we
have a better sense of all of the numbers? I I know we're fairly early in this process. >> Or is that not just simply >> you're kicking pie in the sky? >> I think it's pie in the sky. I mean, I I I think that,
you know, >> it's very possible we're looking at it over. Um, >> yeah, >> I I think there's tough decisions down the road whether we want to match that grant for the harbor, whether we want to do this culvert stuff. So, I would much
rather see the money go into the library and summer hours than than that whole thing. Um, so, you know, I'd rather I don't if the rest of the town is getting proc. >> Okay. Well, if the rest of the town is getting two and a half% raises, why
isn't the library employees They are. They are. >> They are. Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's increasing hours. Not not um >> right. Okay. Okay. >> It's increasing the service level. >> Mhm. >> Right. And and I was going to say to to
do the three and a half% raise. Why don't we wait for the because there's going to be negotiations with the a union next year over that. >> So this year >> this year. So >> wait for this to happen would have to go with negotiations, >> right? So whatever we don't do now,
we'll do then. So yeah, I just Yeah, the library is a low budget. >> I think it's neglected. >> So for other business interests, >> yes, indeed. >> Uh just a a clarification then. So that the additional request that 8656 that
that relates to the additional hours and the the Saturday hours as well. >> And the town administrator did not recommend that. >> He didn't forward that. Okay. And so we're not we're not seeing the effect of that requested change. >> No. >> In the numbers. >> So that's what the discussion is is that
the library requested it and the town administer did not recommend it. >> Yeah. I mean I guess but the the two cents I would throw out there are are that you know it it seems kind of um you know the OPED is a discretionary
decision. you know, we're we're on a good track with that whether we take on the whole thing this year or parse it out this year or next year. And uh and I just >> that's not the only thing though. >> I understand that. But but whether we're talking about the the library or other
departments in town, I'm not saying we don't, you know, try to be somewhat careful, but I also wouldn't want to just, you know, completely mortgage everything for the sake of uh, you know, what the school is asking for. So that's that's my thought >> and and I might say that there's some
efficiency of service given that you know one of the one of the things we do in the library to help the school um provide service in in in education both in our own space but also we go to the
schools sometimes they do have they the middle high school does not have a school librarian. Um we just did a library car drive over there recently. um we try to teach them how to use databases that they don't have access to through school because because they
don't have a a full-time librarian. So I mean these are efficiencies of service that we feel like we can you know assist with but we need professional librarians be working enough to be able to go go there and give that service. Um, and it's not on the budget sheet, but if you
want to know the overall effect, um, it's an overall 2.57 increase for the entire library budget, not just the salaries part with that 8,000 included. So, it is it is low. It is not a huge
ask. I think, you know, we did well in trying to stay with them. >> Go, you >> know, I I I'm kind of with Andy and Dean. Uh I'm an ex-English teacher in a high
school. Um I think more time that children spend in libraries is good. I think $8,000 a lot of money,
but I would spend it. That's my feeling. >> Okay. >> That's why I asked if we could look at that if we can keep this open. I know you don't. >> No, I think we need to make the decision tonight. >> One way or the other is my opinion. We can't be kicking stuff.
>> My question about library compliance budget with the state. Are we none of those concerns or >> we are okay the way that they are crash? What what's the the books and magazines requirement? >> Uh 19% of the average of the previous
three years allocation. >> Remind me is that is that a a state or criteria? >> The state requirement to be be a certified library which gives us state aid, access to grant money, um our
delivery services. Um >> does does that impact whether you can be part of the Marramac Valley >> um >> loaning thing? >> Yes, you you you would Yeah. If you're not certified, yeah, you wouldn't be
able to have the services they provide. >> So, could I make a motion that we approve the budget with the 8656 historic? >> Let's finish our discussions. >> Okay. I want to hear from everyone on the board, D, not just what you want.
Mory, what's your sense? >> Um, I think library is important and I think library hours are important and and I would support Saturday hours. I guess the one of the questions I have is when the library is open, how many people are on staff and is that
mandatory or is that I mean I guess where I'm going with this is could you have a few one person say less during the weekdays at certain times that would allow for weekend coverage? >> So we do absolutely have um various
staffing levels at different times during the day and the week. Um we we do not go below two. We don't go we don't open the library two people to to to staff it. Right now Saturday schedules um during the school year are two people
on a Saturday. Um evenings often have two um barebones staffing like that is great till someone gets sick and we do have some some pieces for that. Um, but that's why there is some redundancy
built into the schedule. Um, so it is possible to cobble out those hours to open on Saturday. I'm not going to say that's not possible. I'm just going to say that right now um our full-timers um >> our our programming they're stretched,
right? So our programming has gone up 118% in the last few years. I just did numbers for 2025. Um we did a hundred more programs served I think close to a thousand more people than we did last year in programming alone and that's
done by you know most of it's done either by professionals but but a professional librarian will run mo many of those programs so it's just tough and we we want to keep providing service um
we keep hearing from from the community that you know Saturday hours yeah a lot of people do go out of town, there's a lot of people on vacation. It's there's no doubt that the the numbers drop, but there's not there's no weekend hours in the summer right now. And I feel like
that is a a real downfall for kids who don't go away, for parents who work and are trying to get into the library just like once a week even um to get books to, you know, bring their kids to the library and uh and and get the services
that we provide. So I I do think it's um yeah it's possible to do it um but it would be better not only for summer but overall we could make some nice >> and then one other question and this isn't this doesn't want to come across
the wrong way but the town charges you know the school district for a safety research re you know a safety officer on site DPW goes back and forth. Have you ever thought about saying, "Hey, we'll we'll do this and that and this and that
for the school, but maybe something comes back to the library from the school." I don't know if that's even feasible. >> Yeah. Yeah. You want to put something onto the school budget so you can >> Well, yeah, >> we're, you know, we're benchmarking dog
licenses across the board, looking for dollars. So, I toss it out there as a question. So >> would it be our our portion of the school budget since this is the library or would it be the school budget? >> I think it would go one third two/3 wouldn't it?
>> I'd like to add that this amount of 86 $100 is the amount that the parks and Rex is requesting for a sign for Pine Street Field. Um, now you also receive donations from friends of the library, correct?
>> Yeah. >> Is that a fund that you tend to spend fully each year? I mean, do you tend to spend what you get in from that? And what types of things do you spend it on? >> Most of the requests we make to the friends library are for programming
expenses. there's not much in the municipal budget understandably for programming and we have a lot of yeah >> expenses >> um sometimes they will purchase u equipment or even like when I I know when the the
children's room was done many years ago they did furniture in there um so I think that you know we can make big asks of them but but it's uh we do not spend that every year. We did not know. >> And you have do you have any sense of
what the the fund is worth? >> Well, yes, I do, but they are that. So, they don't they have been working on trying to put together a budget because they don't really work with a budget. >> Okay.
>> So, I keep asking them what the budget is. And so, now they're trying to develop a budget that they can say to us, here's what you have to spend and >> on various categories. Yeah. Okay. >> I will add that their philosophy is to spend on things like programming and
furnishings etc. and not operations, right? >> I mean, it seems to me that if we have a a budget that's essentially zero in real terms, two and a half% without inflation, and they actually expanded services, that's a pretty good deal. >> Okay.
Pennsylvania. >> So that would increase by adding the 8656 that would increase the total budget to 584162. I've added it up twice. I believe that's true.
>> Uh do I have a motion to approve the library budget in the amount of 584162? >> So moved. Second. SC moves. Andy seconds. Any discussion? Vote. Gar. >> Yes. >> My >> yes. >> Peter, >> yes. >> Dean, >> yes.
>> John, >> yes. >> Andy, Sarah, yes. >> And to your point, Sarah, concerning optics, I think that there's a a nice story to tell when there's short halls in the community center and there's no senior center yet, etc. Struggling to
keep the school lights on. that for pretty short money here. We're adding a service back. >> Yeah. >> When was the service last available >> in the summer? >> Yeah. >> I I don't know whether except
no one not since I've been here donations to open in the summer. Is that only during the year? >> No, I so I think the donation piece was there was a time when Sundays were paid through donation. Correct. That wasn't that long ago. >> And that wasn't that long ago.
>> Okay. Yeah. >> Only a decade or so. >> No, it was more recently than that. >> I was on the board at the time and I was off the board the first time back that long ago. >> And that was only during the school year or year round. School.
>> Okay. That's about half a little bit more. >> So we shouldn't say that we're we are putting back a service. >> No, this is a new one. >> New one. Yeah. Do we want to talk about the capital budget or you want that another time? >> Is there a capital budget for lever?
>> I don't think so. >> What? >> The ADA bathrooms? >> Oh, that's right. Yes. We want to talk about the ADA bathroom. >> Yeah. Can I um ask about the capital exclusion part? Um, wasn't that the
capital exclusions funded last reduced bond payments? >> No, a capital exclusion is merely a cash override rather than a a bond override. It's a one-year override rather than for the life of
>> keeping the 660 doesn't change. >> Dropping it down. >> Okay, got to find capital. I know I'm back, but I can't find this. >> Okay. So, it's my understanding that the cost that's come in for the ADA
bathroom is less than the 300,000. >> That's correct. >> It is here, by the way. >> Nate, would you like to explain the ADA the library ADA bathroom for us? J. >> Yep. So, Nate D. Roger, DPW. Um, so this
year we funded the design, uh, which we are, we have a 75% design set, uh, that will quickly go to 100. Uh, we've provided those comments. Uh, so the project will be ready to go out to bid pretty much, you know, well before town
meeting. Uh the cost estimates that are coming in right now are uh about $150,000 for the actual bathroom and then the associated improvements on the office side of that. The other thing we have to factor in is that we're going to be
moving Cynthia up to the archive uh upstairs. So we have to make accommodations, you know, to make that a an office that she can work out of. Um that's going to include uh replacing the existing uh minplit unit. Uh those units
are I believe close to 20 years old um and only provide cooling. So we'd be looking to put uh replace that unit and the one that's in the existing director's office are on the same um and do a new system there so we can provide
that. Uh so I factored that into it along with electrical uh teley data improvements for the office to get Ethernet up there. Um furniture that type of stuff. So I'm about 225 I
believe is what was carried. >> Okay. >> And is that going to be >> that >> is that a permanent office or is that a temporary office? It it'll be it'll be the permanent office for the director. >> Okay. >> I mean essentially yes. Unless
>> you're using the director building down the road. >> Can somebody do you have pictures or something Nate that would show us where this bathroom is? >> Yeah. >> Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Uh >> if I can just share my screen.
>> Okay. You should be all set. >> All right. We've seen other bathroom designs. >> Is it up? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Okay. Uh so this is the general overview page. Uh it is a full plan set uh by the
consultant that has done uh all of the uh assessments on it as of late. Um so we have basically we're taking the existing director's office um Cynthia's office which also serves as where they bring uh their books in and uh do a lot
of that. You know I guess Cynthia you can probably explain it better than I can. >> Technical services processing. >> It's to the left of the desk. Is that correct? >> It is. >> Yep. Yeah. Right. It's this area. If you can see my >> in front of the room. >> When you go in the front door, it's immediately to the right. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. And so then this area is >> front of the conference room. >> Yeah. Is going to be the ADA bathroom. >> Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. >> Yeah. So half of basically we're taking half of the existing director's office,
a little more than half, and making it the bathroom. And it's the portion that See if we can. that's off of the uh the front room here. So, this will be the door into the ADA bathroom. Um and then you can just see the other,
you know, shots inside of the existing office that uh and then out into the lobby uh from the office. Uh, so this is the general layout plan for the proposed bathroom with the universal changing table.
>> So, so Nate, is this behind the what I call the circulation desk >> in front of it? >> To the right. >> Sounds like as you walk through the front door, it's immediately to the right. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Desk is here.
>> Okay. I know. >> So, this is the reference room and that's how you get into the restroom. >> Okay. >> This office, which now goes through, will be split in half and it will be a small workstation. >> And tell me again where the front door
is. >> Um, here. >> Right here. >> And and Cynthia, is there a door directly into it from the entryway? >> There's a door into what will be that workstation place. That's an existing door.
>> That's an existing door. This is also an existing door. >> And so it'll be accessible from the exterior of the building. >> No. >> No. >> So this will be an ADA bathroom which is accessible when the library is open.
>> Right. >> Correct. >> And then just for geography, where is your office going to be? Is that going to be at the end of the circulation desk the stairs that go up or how how do you get to that?
>> Yeah, so there are stairs in the in the lobby area. There are stairs that go up to our archive room, >> right? >> That archive room is where my office will be. It will remain the archive room, but it will also be my office.
>> And those stairs, that entryway to the stairs, is that shown on this this uh diagram? I just >> it's just off plan view. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the the views we have in this set of documents uh includes it. We're not going to be doing
we're not including that scope of work within these plans. We're going to handle that uh you know ourselves any of those improvements. >> I see >> as a as a building maintenance thing or a facility upgrade in what where's the
what budget line will it be on? So I've included in the capital I've just broken out and I can handle those like the minor electrical upgrade I can handle separately the HVAC we can use our on call who has done the HVAC improvements
for Seaside 1 wastewater treatment plant uh he'll be doing heat pump system for the fire department um so just another one of those essentially >> so what is the amount we have to carry on the capital line for this ADA
bathroom 300. >> No, we don't need that much. >> He's saying 150 for the bathroom. >> I'm not asking you. I'm asking him. >> Okay. >> It's my understanding it came down from the original 300,000.
>> You said 225. >> Yeah. So two, it's coming up to about 225 depending on how much we want to carry for contingency. and then if we want to carry any money for uh design for uh FY28 construction project. So I
think that plays into the over overall capital of you know what do we see doing a project in uh a construction project in FY28 there what is the appetite you know for the scale of that project and
that would really dictate how much we'd want to carry for the design aspect of that project. We haven't heard anything about uh fiscal year 28 library project. So I think it would be premature to
include anything but for that in the fiscal year 27 budget. >> Yeah. I I think it makes sense to you know just make this for this project. Yeah. And if you know including whatever you know appropriate contingency you think is necessary to you know cover things. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think if you went to 250, that'd probably >> be fairly comfortable and not, you know, not cut it too close. >> Yep. Sounds good. >> So, we'll put that down to 250. >> Okay.
We're not voting on capital tonight. >> We're just trying to get us straightened out. >> Subject 8,000 for 50. We >> thanks for playing. >> It's our magic. >> Thank you very much for coming in. >> Yeah, thank you for putting up with all
our questions. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Okay, so we're now on to CPC. Do you have something for us on CPC or do I have to pull up the email? I have
>> Oh, is that a point that you're referring to? >> Can I put together that? >> I have that, but then Jack had sent us the actual spreadsheet. >> Didn't get that, >> sir. Can I
CPC vote on the agenda? >> Have CPC discussion on the agenda? CPC projects is on the agenda. >> It was right below the library. It's It's the like the port. >> Oh, yep. I see it.
>> Yes. Yeah. >> This the same bathroom that initially >> Okay. Thank you. Not turning into two bathroom. >> No. No. The original bathroom was going to be in the stacks and it was going to take out too much of the stacks. >> Was it going to be accessible from the
exterior? Was that >> This is This is an important You're bringing up a very important point >> because I know the bathroom issue. This is a very important point for the public. >> I think they were trying to make that project happen without moving her up and by accommodating her office and they
just couldn't have too many books. >> They could they couldn't squeeze it in. >> Couldn't squeeze it. >> They got rid of the books. It would work. >> So that project went away. The funding got >> the money came back into free cash or fund balance, whatever we want to call it. >> Yep.
>> This is the Seattle. This one this about the same price. Yes, >> that was in the 400 range or something anyway. Got it. >> Okay. >> Well, at least we're having weekend hours, so it'll be open for that. >> It's only three hours. It's only three
hours on Saturday. >> We haven't dealt with the bathroom. >> No. >> This is this is >> in my view, the design is seriously >> because of that limit because of that limitation.
We're spending more to get less. Fundamentally, >> we need a downtown public bathroom library ADA be able to provide that to the library
and to allow the zip. I'm Mr. Bathroom on the tip, as you may know. Um uh I'm proud to say um we need we desperately need a public bathroom in
the in the middle of our town. >> Right. But I think the library is not the appropriate place. I don't think it's monitored. I think your more appropriate place is in town hall >> which has monitoring in town hall 247. >> Except nobody can nobody walked in here.
Go. Has has any >> Has anyone come >> to be changed? >> It would >> I mean >> there's a bathroom right next to the front entry. >> I know it's open, >> but talk to a tourist. I'm I'm now talking for the DP. >> Okay. Well, >> yeah.
>> Okay. I don't I don't have this conversation. >> Certainly continue this, >> right? Yeah. >> Have they considered along the sewage treatment plant the community path? We're not discuss this, Dean. >> Good question. >> We had a temporary bathroom there that
nobody used. >> Well, now the community passed it, but anyway. Okay. >> Okay. Now, we're on to CPC. Hi, Jack. >> Uh, good evening everybody. I'm joined by a number of my
committee members online. >> Okay. You should have a um a spreadsheet before everybody. And this year we have uh uh available funds of $620,000
of which $482,000 is the estimated uh tax sarge at one and a half%. Estimating state match of 17% for $81,940. and we have $56,211
of unreserved balance for a total of 620. Um, we have a provision, we made provisional votes last week at our CPC meeting. Uh, we expect to ratify these u uh close to the same numbers, but we
would let you know if anything should change drastically at next week's meeting. Uh, there are three areas that we fund. open space, recreation, community housing, and historic preservation. Uh we have
applications um that we've requested applications $346,000 and um uh I'm sorry we we've approved requested applications of $346,700 uh out of that
budget amount of um 620,000 broken down into open space and recreation of 51,000, community housing 200,000, and historic preservation
70,000, administration funds 25,000. Happy to answer any questions. >> One, Jack. >> Um, the chair, please. >> Okay. Sorry. Uh the the 10% statutory allocation for
open space is 56394 but we're less than that. Does that mean um we have to fund that much more next year in this category or are we supposed to fund a minimum of that amount? >> No, we don't have to we don't have to
spend a nickel in either any of the categories every year. But if we don't, we have to put that money aside for future use. So, if we do approve the the 51,600, uh there'd be about $5,000 that of of um
reserved funds for the use of open space and recreation only that would be added to next year. >> And you keep a running total of that? >> I do. So if you've over spent one year, that credits against any shortfall in the next year.
>> Yeah. Okay. Good. >> Yes. Andrea Andrea and I work together every year and she keeps a copy of everything that's unreserved or encumbered for the year. >> Andrew, that must mean that the housing
funds look pretty big, doesn't it? >> Yes. >> Yes. So the affordable housing trust gets those funds. >> That is >> 1 17 >> no 1.8 eight I think with this >> without the no it was 1.7 I think
>> it's around there >> so does CBC have a some kind of plan a lot of money just sitting around >> it's in the affordable housing trust >> I know >> which CBC can't control >> what is it >> but is I'm not like is there a plan like you keep putting a bunch of money in there over what we have to I'm guessing
that I'm hoping there a plan like when we get to two million bucks we'll >> well I can tell you that the affordable Housing Trust attempted to purchase a property in Manchester this fall
>> and for in excess of a million dollars and it was just closed yesterday to somebody else for 175,000 less than we were willing to pay.
>> What's wrong with that work? I guess the owner didn't want affordable housing to go on the property they were selling. >> So you're saying we basically need a million plus to be involved and we just don't know when these things are going
to come up. >> Right. And this >> this came up at town meeting money. >> Yeah. This was a property with 1.3 acres um that could have held. I think the main house was going to be converted into three condos. Maybe it was a large
house and then maybe 10 or 12 town houses in the back and they would have been sold as affordable rather than rented because to make a rental financially feasible you need at least 30 units.
So that's the attempt that was being made. Um, and the challenge is if you've looked at the real estate market in Manchester, is finding real estate with enough land that you can actually
put multif family housing on it and that the owners will want to sell it to somebody who wants to put in affordable housing. So would the plan be to once you build these things and sell them that money
would go back in the trust fund? >> No. What what the what we were attempting to do was to donate money to a nonprofit
to cover the acquisition cost which was needed in order to make the whole project financially feasible. And it was well over a million. It was almost all of our money. >> See, the taxpayers need some kind of like overall right
>> high level strategy to say like we have a lot of money. That's your money. It was your money, right? >> Now it's our money, >> right? It's a it's a problem. >> Granted, it's it's a problem and it's gar will give you a tongue lashing on
us. Uh but it's you know we don't have we're right now we're looking at um a piece of town owned property to see if there's any fees to be taking a large piece of town
owned property and using that for affordable housing and and the affordable housing trust has no intention to develop anything >> just work with project >> partners and is there an amount you'd say okay we probably enough for for right now.
>> So, >> well, if 1.5 wasn't sufficient, you know, got 1.7. >> What if you had $75 million? I think the man Manchester Affordable Housing Trust would still come back to you and say more. >> We can't we just can't do it for summer.
We don't know why, but it's impossible. They Manchester affordable housing trust should be disbanded. The members of the trust, as good people as they are, should be thanked. They should submit their resignations. We
should take the million7 and do something else with it or whatever it's going to be up to. It is a it is a failed effort. The thing was started what, six, seven years ago. >> Longer than that. >> Some longer than that. I believe
>> it's never produced a single >> unit. CPC was 20 20 plus years ago. Yeah, but affordable housing just >> I'm talking about the MA HTM matches for affordable. It's never produced a single unit of affordable housing. >> I think that I think there were other
things in the works that are not public knowledge that are are trying to be worked on um to create affordable housing or help >> subsize developers to encourage them to include affordable housing. I'm
wondering if you dial this back a little bit of the optics would be better. >> See, look, >> the optics are not ideal right now. >> You have to put 60 in, right? So that's >> the reason why I've supported it every
year is because it's the only shred of evidence that the town has that we're doing anything towards affordable housing. Um and and we could get severely penalized if we're negligent for this for too long much longer. I think we might already be.
>> Um so that's but but a reduced amount would work in that regard as well. But that's why I support something just because it's all we have to show progress.
>> But Gar, your comment is it'll never happen or It's simple. >> I I would say based on the evidence, it was not Einstein. When when you when something doesn't work, stop doing it.
>> But but I I I think that >> it wasn't it was somebody else, but it was everybody says it was Einstein. But >> that part of the point you're missing is that when the trust was created, it didn't have enough money to do anything. Mhm. >> They went out to people and said, "We'll
we'll help subsidize your rentals and make them affordable." The landlords didn't want to do that. Um there were other projects. There was money. There's a program out there to help subsidize housing purchases, help subsidize rent.
During COVID, they paid 170,000 to pay down people's rent if they couldn't afford to pay their rent. Um, so there wasn't enough money to really make a purchase of any size. They brought in every nonprofit that's in this business
and said, "What can we do?" They worked for five god un long years >> trying to work with the MHA which the state wasn't flexible enough to allow an individual development. MHA
is a is a >> right >> legend in itself. >> So, you know, I think to be on I think behind the scenes the affordable housing trust was trying to do things and didn't have enough money to do anything and I think now they're at the point where at
least they have some money. Um, >> yes. >> Yes. >> So, can I can I just ask a question just maybe going one step deeper? Powderhouse Lane. >> Yes. the whole Nikki, you know, has that
been resolved? >> Is that still works? Where is it? >> We had a meeting with the affordable housing trust Tuesday night >> and I read the regulatory agreement and
identified exactly I I went before the select board to get it signed and there wasn't enough information for them to be comfortable signing. So, I went through the regulatory agreement and identified exactly what the town's obligation is.
>> Yeah. so that I can make a recommendation to Tony as to a person on the town staff who could actually make sure that those obligations >> are fulfilled >> are fulfilled which is basically once a year obtaining information
>> on on the fact that you know they've done all of the income certification and and that there are actually eight units >> um that meet qualifications. I mean, it seems in light of this discussion, a win in some area would be a hugely welcome
thing. This this could be sounds like you're inches from the finish line. >> 29 units. >> Let's move it over. >> It can get executed in the first meeting in February. It can't be Monday night
because Tony's not around. Um >> but I was going to say >> it can't be Monday night because it's going to snow. We we've been we've been chatting about this for five, seven years. It would be great to just >> put a vote on it and call it done >> the town signature on it so it can go to
the state. >> So So could I ask, you know, to to John's point, does it really impact our situation to say that we want to hold off on further funding until we see, you know, something ratified?
>> Responsible government. Not that this hasn't been a good idea and a good effort, you know. >> No, it's a good effort. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> It's a good effort. >> There's no >> I'm not saying anybody's bad. >> Yeah. >> But I think holding off and giving them another $200,000 in view of the fact
that they've had an egregious record probably is not a good idea. Let's hold the 200,000 and say >> do the 60. >> We like we like your ideas, but you know, let's see a little substance here. And and and
>> Sarah, if I could ask Jack, um is it a requirement that we that we provide at least that minimum 56 394 to >> No, no. It's we we must set it we must set it aside for future use, but we
don't have to spend it this year. I I would I would like to make a comment if I can, Madam Chair. >> Yes. Yes, Mr. B. um you know the we we have um historically supported the CPC
has historically supported this um annual fund realizing that we're fighting a tough battle on and the answer is as you've already spoken there's not enough money and uh there's no land um yet we feel it's an important
um part of our um our mission uh and it and It's required by law that we look at affordable housing in Manchester. It's one it's one-third of the of the um uh things that we can look at. We don't
have to spend one/ird. Uh but we did have um a number of meetings with towns people over the years uh when we've done our five-year plan and 65% of the uh the people felt that affordable housing was where we should
be spending uh most of our money and our consultant wanted us to commit to 65% per year of of course which we didn't. We're committing to the minimum 10% per year, but the consultant felt based on
what the people um uh had uh voted on at these meetings that we um actually um commit to a higher number. So, and we also feel um that bringing it to town meeting allows town meeting to decide
not just our group or your group or the select select board. And although there was some dissension last year, 85% of people at town meeting voted to approve this ongoing $200,000. And some people actually asked if they
could uh spend more than the $200,000. So I think it's I think we're well supported. Um you know we are allowed to bring this to town meeting uh on our own uh without the approval from this
finance committee or the uh select board. However, you know obviously we don't we we we want the support of the finance committee and and the select board. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Madam Chairman, I am in favor
of affordable housing. I own affordable housing in five communities in the greater Boston area. I own an affordable housing project in town. I donated $50,000
to Powder House Hill as part of the equity to acquire that to push it into affordable housing. I'm 100% in favorable of affordable housing. I'm 100% against
putting money into nothing. >> Thank you. I have mixed feelings about this, but we went through a lot of wrangling with reserve fund and what we were holding aside at the end of a given year of
taxpayer dollars, you know, in reserves and you know 1.5 1.7 million I think needs some explanation um going forward. I mean it it's we want to do something with this but if it's if
10 years becomes 20 years you know we're we're fighting one problem over here and we're kind of just saying oh this one is okay over there I >> I think we need to put more attention >> town gives us control right if we if we had our own reserve for affordable
housing then the town controls it if you give MH housing trust then they control it right >> aren't they essentially a town entity >> trust >> but it's managed by people who are basically appointed and elected
>> appointed the select board >> so it's yeah >> so it's managed by the town if it's appointed by the select board >> right >> but independent voters right so you guys could spend everything tomorrow on buying one little apartment and we wouldn't vote on it right
>> whereas the town will vote on >> vote on the money going Yeah. Not the money coming. >> And we would vote if we had the $1.8 million and Andrea had it, then they have to vote to get it out of there. Right. >> Correct. >> That's that's a difference, I think.
>> I think one of the reasons why you set up the affordable housing trust is that they don't have the limitations. So if you a property does come available, >> you can jump right on it and move on it for the last six years. So I also
>> you don't have any of the constraints of um Davis Bacon >> um any of that sort of thing where you have to pay people more to build things. So it takes it outside of the town >> um as far as the municipal
>> prevailing. Yeah. Prevailing wage. Yep. And we talked about bringing in we've got some smart fellas and gals in town who understand affordable housing. And we've talked about and you told me you're kind of percolating in that
direction yourself. >> Well, yeah. I've got somebody who's applied who I think would be really good to to improve the board. I just need the appointment to go through. >> So, I'm just just >> not a select board appointment as a moderator. It's only one.
>> I'm just generally curious. I mean, it sounds like there's money on hand, but opportunities haven't gone through, not necessarily because of being over bid or under bid. There must be other things going on here, like what people want in their neighborhood or regulations or
something. Have other towns that are benchmarked around us been able to do this successfully? I mean, are there other examples of towns that are going at it with the same horsepower we are that have moved the ball over the finish line, or is this a problem that everybody's facing?
>> Basically, if you're talking of something being done through the affordable housing trust, it's going to be a 40B because our town zoning bylaws do not allow multif family housing.
So, you're talking a 40B. And if you look at the history of 40B approvals in area towns, they certainly are not slam dunks. >> Um the ones that have gone through
are majority have not been friendly. I believe >> my take on this is that we are trying to fit Manchester into the bureaucratic
molds or extrusions that we really don't fit into. We need to go to Bruce Tar and I know we did. We had a meeting and they said, "Gee, Ed Augustus, who's secretary of housing and
livable communities, won't go along with the kinds of things that you want to do." The problem with Manchester is we really don't have that many 30 and 40 and 50 unit projects that make affordable units
>> financially feasible. >> Work on. So, we've got five unit buildings. Yeah. >> And 8unit buildings and twounit buildings. I proposed to Chris only >> a two-unit building on whatever the road
that goes down to Morse Court, I think it's called. Had nothing to do with me. It was a building that was a available two nice units for a million dollar. I said just buy it. I'll help you get a
$600,000 mortgage. You'll get 600 of your million back. You'll have two units. You can put them on the the subsidized housing inventory list. And two families can use the wonderful
beach. They can send their kids to our undercapacity school. >> You know, all of this thing. I'm sorry. >> True. But the problem is if the affordable housing trust owns property,
they then have the obligation to enforce a marketing plan, which means they have to go out and have a lottery. They have to maintain a waiting list, right? >> They have to jump through the hoops. And it's it's just
>> and that's where having Bruce Qar go to Mora Healey >> and say we need you to tell Ed Augustus to relax some of this stuff >> so that towns like Manchester can build affordable housing because it's not happening
>> right and but you can't blame the affordable housing trust for that guar >> I do >> I mean >> they're the ones that have they're the ones with the charge >> but I I mean the whole problem with Powder House Lane is because there were
no tax credits, no state money involved. So it's a whole different path and that's why the town has to sign a regulatory agreement in order to make sure that they rem maintain affordable.
Um if it's a 40B development, the developers are doing that. The town doesn't have to sign a regulatory agreement and the state is not equipped to handle. >> They sure are >> projects that they are not. You're absolutely right. They're not equipped.
>> And all of all of Mora Healey's talk about creating housing is so much fluff. She doesn't know what she's talking about. And Ed Augustus isn't helping towns like Manchester. >> Okay. So, let's move off of before our >> Yeah. I I was going to
>> going back to the CPC. Um >> I think the big discussion that we were supposed to have tonight about the rotunda because that was what everyone else >> I think with Jack we were we were going to approve this stuff but we weren't sure.
>> Well, no. I mean the CPC the CPC was looking at >> Sarah before we I'm just I have two questions about the CPC budget. So, Jack, maybe you can help us with this. Signage for Reed Park in Pine Street Field at $16,000.
I'm just curious what that is. And then title search by the town assessor for $25,000. I'm curious, have we have we invested in these things before or is this a first time? If we have done it before, what has been accomplished? And could you
tell us what this sign is for $16,000? >> Sure. Sure. Uh that signed budget is is uh for um new grant posts and sign one at Reed Park and one at the new Pine
Street Field. Uh Cheryl put one at Coach Field uh field a couple years ago and one at Sweeney Park I think last year. The cost of those two is about $12,000. Um I increased the budget uh because
there is other signage uh uh better signage at um singing beach um parking lot uh that the selectment are going to discuss and possibly upgrading the signs at Masano Park and and at the singing
beach circle. The uh um other one is the title search in the that's the title search in the western woods. We have done considerable work there. The assessors hire a title examiner for um unknown owners of property and they've
brought back um number of lots back on the tax role. uh but an awful lot of it has gone into conservation trust with the conservation uh commission and the Manchester Essex conservation trust. So it's continued work to basically protect
the water supply and possibly um um increase passive uh and some active uh recreation >> decrease land available affordable housing. I think with the green belt, >> I knew that was coming. >> We we gave 250,000 to green belt last
year. So, you'd think that there'd be some fringe areas that they wouldn't mind um trading for what we've been giving them lately. >> Oh, green belt is pretty cooperative. >> Yeah. Well, we bought we spent a lot of money for them up at Long Hill.
>> Yeah. And maybe if there's a a fringe area by the railroad tracks that they don't feel is conservation worthy, we could use it for housing. And just one other question. Um in historic preservation, there's a $20,000
line item for historic district um survey. >> Yes, the historic district commission put that um survey in. They're looking to find out exactly what we have that's historical in town and with a possible
uh uh expanding of the historic district. And that would be for an examiner that would uh come through town and and give an inventory of what we actually have in town. We don't know at this point what is historical and what isn't.
>> I think they're looking at individual >> houses, >> properties. >> Properties. And I did ask Rosemary at the CC >> about whether she could do it and she's not qu She It's something you need a license for that she doesn't have.
>> Any other questions on CBC? Yes, Andy. >> Yeah, the um I just wanted to ask about the the meeting house roof at the First Parish Church. $12,000. >> Yes. Yes. the um they have an estimate for $45,000. They originally had asked for
half of that. Um but after talking to uh you know Jeff Parker and um a couple of other members of the committee, this was a little controversial. Some members on our committee you know would have liked to have given more and it's still possible next week that that discussion when we finalize the vote a motion could
be made to be a little higher than that. Uh but it but we had we've given a provisional approval of $12,000 right now for a new roof. >> Yeah. I guess my my comment it's similar to something we voted on last year which is that you know it's the town giving
money for church property which >> yes um the anti- amendment Yeah. The anti- amendment law in Massachusetts uh prohibits us from spending any money that would uh support any church
activities. Um this has um been vetted and educated a number of times. Uh the Supreme Court Massachusetts has agreed that if we're uh spending public money to to help uh save and preserve a uh a
building uh that it's an allowable expense. In many towns in Massachusetts, there's a if you go to the CP a U coalition database, you'll see millions of dollars spent on these historical uh
churches in Massachusetts. we don't support this. We'll have to change our load on our station head which the meeting house roof. >> Well, also the meeting house is a pretty important community resource not just for you know praying in there or
something. It's they have a lot of very good nonreligious uh organizations the museum uh you know lots of others uh that that use that facility. Sure. So, uh, I think I think
it's a important resource for the town. >> We we we feel that it's one of the most historic buildings and important buildings in in Manchester. >> It's a signature landmark of the town. >> The lights were back on tonight.
>> All the lights are on. >> Pointing in the right direction. Are all the lights on? >> That's good. I have seven tenants that are going to be very happy with the lights on. >> It's all the way up to the the roof. >> Oh. Oh. On that.
>> Oh, I mean >> I'm talking about Beach Central. Yeah. >> Oh, I don't know about >> teaching Union. All right. >> Okay. >> Did Did Tony talk to you about Rotunda funding? >> Yes, we have a we received something on
from him. Okay. >> Getting to it. was not in the CPC list. So, we need to go through the CPC list first. >> Okay. >> I had too much coffee today. Sorry.
>> So, is there any other feedback we want to give Jack on the CPC list? >> Could you tell us about the cemetery um restoration, what that involves? >> Yes. Um, we we've uh already uh repaired
over 100 stones between Union Cemetery, 1661 Cemetery in Rosedale. We re we repaired the uh uh granite walls, replaced uh repaired the fence at 1661
Union Cemetery and uh continued need to do more fence work at at Rosedale and uh dozens of more stones. So, it's continued work that we've been been doing for the last 10 years. >> Okay. Anything else?
Okay. Um, now either Andrea or Tony, I don't know which one, sent us this PDF on the rotunda.
Did everyone get it? >> I didn't see it. >> I can put it up on the screen. >> Yeah, >> there was attached to one of Tony's email. It was before he went on vacation last week. >> Oh, he's on Thursday night. I think later Friday morning last week.
>> Yeah, >> that's something I should have done on Friday. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I unfortunately I have all except for the first page printed because that's when my printer died. >> I unfortunately did not print this one. It prints everything.
>> I can put it up on the screen. >> No, it's >> horizontal. it. >> Well, we may not be able to discuss it tonight if people didn't get it. >> Looks like it was sent on the Friday the 16th. >> Okay.
the >> the 22 in the >> issue that's being presented >> Tony Baretta. >> Thank you. The issue that's being presented to us
is with respect to the rotunda, do we pay for it using town debt exclusion funds or
do we have the CPC issue a bond to pay for Yeah. >> And um this is a presentation with an argument and
my concern is well and there's there's been one of the recommendations in here is you increase CPC to 3%. So you get an additional 8% from the state, but then that forces us to spend
more money on these other things. >> And that would be about a 1 and a.5% increase in the tax rate. M excluding the first 100,000 whereas the cost to bond 3 million is about 7/10en of 1%.
Tax increase, right? And it would be less than that if we get like if the CPC gave more cash funds to the rotunda. That would decrease the amount of bond. >> You're saying you should shoot out a CBC because they have cash stuck in there we
can't get. >> No, they don't have the cash. They'd have to increase our taxes to get the cash. >> Well, I was going to recommend we switch the affordable housing trust money over, but I don't think can do that. >> Yeah. And and I think that the the
appropriation needs to be included in the fiscal year 27 budget so they can go out to bid. >> So I still understand why why you show CBC the town has bonds outstanding. >> We haven't bonded this yet. >> No, no, but the town has bond like in
the bond market you can buy bonds. >> Right. >> So everyone knows managed by the C is triple AAA rated. >> Right. Right. >> They have full taxing authority to up the bonds. I think >> it's like I don't know who this is. >> The well the argument is that >> because we get a 16 or 17% state match
>> that that would offset the cost of the bond. >> Okay. So I just way don't have it yet. >> But your point is that they might not be as bondable. >> Well yeah$1 million piece. >> The town would still be the one issuing the bond. It's just the funding source
would be from CBC >> only or also general obligation. Thanks. >> It would be the obligation of the town if CPC didn't vote for it. >> They'd have to vote for it each year. >> So, the town's issuing bond some weird something else weird about it. >> Yeah, >> I know.
>> Yeah. And and like the way debt works, like yes, you have to have an appropriation, but since you already have that bond authorization and the um subsequent debt service, even if the town meeting voted not to fund the debt service, we we still by law have to pay for it whether or not it's
>> the CP the CPC, excuse me, CPC is required by statute to fund that bond for the full 20 years. >> So even if you like voted to get rid of CPC altogether and bring it down to zero, you'd still have to tax
CPC you'd have to keep enough >> you have to keep enough CPC in the um on the uh tax roles to pay for the uh bond. So if that's threequarters of 1%, one and a quarter percent, whatever it would be, we would have to keep that amount
and not fund anything else. >> And and I had a creative solution. You know me, creative. In 2025, we appropriated 800,000 for the rotunda because we knew we had lost one of the
bond, one of the grants. We thought we still had the other grant, >> right? >> So, my creative solution is to take that 800,000 we had appropriated, put it back into free cash,
bond for the full include that 800,000 in the bonding, bond for the full 3 million rather than 2.2 million. And then that gives us 800,000
in free cash that we can allocate towards items that currently are triggered to taxation to help solve our budget problem this year. >> Oh, operating mean >> like OPEC. >> Like OPE is coming out of taxation.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You could pay that out of >> this 800,000. >> Yeah. and do the full 420. Um, and you could reduce the amount of taxation being used for some of the capital items, which would free up
taxation money for the operating budget to help fill our $732,000 gap. >> Sarah, point of information, please. >> Yes. >> I believe 500,000 of that 800 is CPC money.
>> No. Um there's 1.3 total, 800 from the town and 500 from CPC. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So the total budget for the rotunda is 3.6 million. So the assumption is that
500,000 already allocated from the CPC would reduce the amount of the required loan. So it only need the 3 million or 31 whatever it is. But then if the CPC wanted to allocate more cash towards the rotunda, that
would further decrease the amount of the bond the town required. >> Bad idea to bond things that are infrastructure that last for >> 20 30 hopefully 20 30 plus year better. M >> well that's
as an engineer um I think it's foolish to spend 3.5 million to raise it the full 5 ft when we can spend less now and deal with it until the next rehabilitation in 25 years. Okay, I
understand your point, Dean, >> but the fact of the matter is >> is that the select board held multiple forums >> y >> with people in town, residents, and the approach that's being pursued
was the agreed upon approach by the residents of the town. And it's not for the finance committee to weigh in on that decision. Look >> at those estimates and It was the dog w the tail wagging the
dog. What it was, it was ridiculous. >> It's okay as a resident, but it's not for the finance committee to to weigh in on. >> I mean, >> yeah, bring it up to the to the select board again. >> I think it's something that we could
really cut down our tax burden this year. I mean, sea level rise is gradual. But anyway, >> the all of the permits are expiring in 2027. That's part of the problem. >> Yeah. Well, it would be the same project
to just put it lower. It really we wouldn't have to do the ramp, which is an extra $500,000. Well, >> just I I'll throw in I'm involved with another project that is involved with permitting from seven different agencies about sea level rise. And in
Massachusetts, if you don't go up 5t or six feet, you don't get permitted. >> There you go. >> It's a silly thing, but it's the way it is. So, >> well, we can design for the future 5 foot now and just extend it as we need it. be
like a Anyway, let's go back. >> Okay. So, >> we're not here to redesign the project. No, >> it's just an >> what we're here for is to give the CPC input
regarding whether we want to seek CPC funds to bond the Rotunda project or whether we want to use town funds to bond the Rotunda project.
>> Well, why wouldn't we use CPC funds? I mean it's part of their mandate is historic preservation then >> because the CPC in order to afford it. >> Well, anything they contribute will be helpful, right? >> We certainly wouldn't be able to put >> We're talking the total bond
>> be less if they cut a check. >> Yeah, I'm I'm talking about who's repaying the >> 33. Yeah, it would be 335,000 a year >> coming from CPC. >> No, we're going to repay the bonds. the
town's going to repay. >> One thing that I'd like to say is if we put this on the CPC for future years, we're probably not going to be able to also carry the 200,000 housing stuff. So, >> it would use up half of the CPC money if
the bond went through the CPC. >> That's correct. At >> the current rate, >> unless we increased >> the percent >> CPC to 3%. And so the question is is do we want to eat up half the CPC money with one bond
or do we want to do a debt exclusion through the town and CPC can give us cash this year that would reduce the amount of the bond the town would need to >> because of the match.
>> That's the only reason to do it. >> Do that every year. >> What? year by year by year CBC could contribute toward the bond payment of the um Yeah. >> No, I don't think so. >> The thing is >> they can contribute until we issue the
long-term bonds and then then that determines the total amount of bond that Andrea has to issue. >> They could like pay principal as a historic thing. >> Not unless it's originally the bond through CBC. >> Yeah. >> It's not a project based thing. It's
like it wouldn't be considered a category. Whereas like if you issue it through um CPC, you can say okay that's your annual allotment for historic preservation. You can't say like, "Oh, we just want to pay this, you know, debt service over here that the town agreed to pay."
>> That exclusion can't pay. If >> we do this project, if we appropriate money town meeting for the project, >> when would you anticipate that you would issue long-term bonds?
>> Probably two years from June >> would be elementary. So it would be >> so essentially I would ban it and then next June I would have like a debt service payment. So that would be FY29 >> FY29. >> So Sarah what's >> so CPC could give us money before FY29
in order to reduce the amount of the bond. >> What um maybe I'm missing it. What what is the downside of of bonding it through the CPC that you see? Do >> you want to throw out the scenarios the money scenarios here? Yeah.
And one thing is the match. The match. >> The only difference is the match. >> You're already getting the match. So if if you're keeping CPC at 1.5%. >> You know, I don't see that you gain anything >> 16% or whatever. >> Yeah, but you're going to spend that on
other things. >> No, I know. But we wouldn't spend it on other things if we've spent it on that, right? And we and we often struggle uh as as hard as the CPC works to sort of invite >> uh appropriate projects, there's often a lack of appropriate projects in the
rotunda seems like a pretty appropriate project. >> And you know, so the benefit of whatever reaping that 16% uh year-over-year for 20 years might not be a bad thing. >> And my argument that that would be
reduce the CPC tax. I I don't think >> Oh, for one and a half. >> Yeah. I don't think a long-term bond is appropriate through the CPC. >> Okay. >> Um if you don't want to spend money on CPC for other things, just drop your
rate. >> Because today the match from the state is not significant enough. >> Right. >> When we started, I think it was 50%. >> Yeah, it was good. >> 100 selling point. >> Yeah. November. >> So maybe we could conclude that at this
meeting that we would recommend not to go 3%. >> I'm waiting for more input from people. >> So if you could ask then if you know whatever this amount is 3.3 or 3.6. >> No total project is 3.6 minus 500 that's
already been allocated >> and minus whatever we might get allocations for in the next two years before the bond actually gets issued. >> Right. are are and so then the balance is what we bond >> right the end of the project >> through the town. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Well, wouldn't that also impact like the
budget we're talking about right now and say look why would you put $200,000 in a housing trust which we might not use versus putting it towards a rotunda which seems like we're very limit >> make that suggestion. Yeah, it's me. >> Uh but but as you know, we discussed
that the CPC budget goes before the town at town meeting. It's not covered by us. >> I mean, if you have a big project that's fits in their wheelhouse. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, the town has $6 million of bonds outstanding right now. Is that right?
>> That's correct. >> And so, we would be adding another three or three million. No, we're adding >> head. Look at the future. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. So, you take >> the PFAS, >> the C PAS, >> whatever.
>> Yeah. The the PA enterprise, >> you know, and some of these other stuff. We're going to be adding another what $20 million in bonds. So we're this this committee is going to be responsible for going from like five or six million to
like 25 or 30 million of bonding. >> Our capacity is less. >> I don't want this to get into a discussion on the capital budget. >> All right. >> Right. >> We're talking one item. >> Okay. If if a decision is made
to include it in the budget, which we haven't even gotten there yet, do we want to fund it with a debt exclusion through the town or do we want CPC to set them aside money to bond it?
That's the We haven't approved the project yet because we haven't approved capital. CPC can't do its budget unless it knows whether we're going to look for money for the rotunda.
>> Right. So, you were looking for more data. You said a minute ago, >> I guess I'm confused. If we're not bonding until FY29, >> we have to appropriate the money to go out for bid.
>> Well, the bond authorization is the appropriation. the bond the CPC the CPC would not have to appropriate any funds for probably two more years. We would we would not be uh need to bring any money to town budget until the
a the debt service uh is needs to be paid which is would be 2029 probably. >> We we we need it to be on the capital budget in order to go out to bid. >> You need to commit once when is it going
out to bid. >> So you need a bond authorization or right >> project funding. >> When's it going out to bid? meets the one. >> They'll probably put a a request that it can be approved right after town meeting
like they did with the uh >> commission expires on 42927. >> Nate, go ahead. >> Yeah, we're planning to go out to bid this summer to do the fall construction season or, you know, fall into winter construction season. Um that is, you
know, by permit. So, you know, probably June time frame. And we're looking to group basically all the harbor projects into one bid at a minimum right now be Reed Park Moors and the Rotunda and then
ideally dredging. Uh and by doing that I think you eliminate a lot of by you know economy of scale. Instead of having four separate potentially four separate contractors you could have one contractor um you know so all of their overhead. It also if you know would be
an improvement for on the consulting side um you know reduction of paperwork everything >> on this discussion until we're discussing capital projects with the DPW because I do not believe Reed Park is on our capital list.
>> So I I think we need to wait and discuss this when we meet with the DPW. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so anyways, Rotundo would be bidden in June. >> To me, the two things are important here. This debate about the source of
who takes on the debt is is more esoteric than I've wrapped my brain around, but I want the project to move forward. I want I want us to resolve this for this budget cycle. I'm sick of talking about the second thing is I want
us to pay down. I want us to have a plan that enables a one-time payment to move out of that obligation. >> What does that give us though? What benefit? >> We It would mean that next year's budget >> Yeah.
>> we would pay about $450,000 out of the OPED trust for the retiree insurance premiums. So that would free up $450,000 for our operating benefit. That's a big >> because I see hard years coming and I
want to make that money available. >> Okay, I see. >> That doesn't answer the strict question that I know is being debated, but I hope those are among the outcomes that we seek. Do it now and also paid pay off, >> right? And and the challenge is is right
now in our current budget oped is assumed to be coming from tax dollars. >> Yes, I understand. Prior years we paid it from free cash or fund balance, whatever you call it. This year we didn't have enough to do that. But if we put this
$800,000 back in and bond the full amount of the rotunda, then we have enough free cash to do OPED plus some other capital things that were coming taxation >> be able to move forward on the project
currently and do the oped payoff. >> I I know it leaves over the question who takes the 3 million as a matter of the of the source of repayment obligation. I'm I I'm not convinced. I know enough about it at the moment to know which one
is. I hear the benefits that I don't I'm not clear on the distinct benefits of each of the two possible sources that is either CPC but I hate to obligate CPC for 20 years.
my simpler analysis if CBC gives us a a way to do some things which are I think advantageous uh because of the authority they have and the flexibility they have. So I'm
I'm very cautious to obligate them with 20-year bond or whatsoever. >> So I've got a question to that end. Is it possible to use some of that money? I know money is funible, but you're getting 400,000 bucks that I know can disappear in a New York minute here, but
could you earmark some of that to serve that bond and perhaps take some of the pressure off? >> What are you talking about? >> By not paying people have to pay for >> Well, I I think that the problem, John, is is we need it >> you need it for everything.
>> We need it for the operating budget. I I'm I'm I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying >> we could point, >> right? >> The the later the later conversation once we get further along in the budget is do we need an override or not?
>> Yeah. Is going to get to that point. I >> at some point once we finalize the budget, we'll get to that point. >> Well, I just I just want to make a point that that could somehow >> Yeah. Well, I'd like to make, you know, just a broad brush capital. I'm going to be
asking people to live within their means more because the one thing that is clear for that 25-y year chart is that we're going to reach our bond capacity pretty quickly. and and um to spend 90,000 for
this harbor when for five days when we have to turn away boats because of full capacity, it's just doesn't make any sense for payback. So those are some of the hard choices. I I know there's synergy with driving piles together all
at once, but we have to live within our means more, I think, this year. And that's the message I'd like to send. >> And that's an argument against doing the project at all at this time. No, I think tax is a priority. It was a clearcut priority in town meeting. So, but to limp this other stuff in, I think it's
other pedophy skull duggery. You name it, >> my >> um fundamentally I want to see the road done. To Peter's point, we've been talking about this for a long time. It's been brought up at a couple town meetings. It needs to get itself pushed
over the finish line. Um I think we should be bonding it through the town. I don't think there's enough financial gain to do it through the CPC. And I just fundamentally looking forward over the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years, I think
this town wants to be very flexible and very nimble about how it does things. And if we're committed to hanging on to CPC at some level for 10 years or 20 years, that concerns me. I think they do
great work, but I think we want to keep flexibility here. And that's why I would be advocating to go through town bonding instead of CPC. >> Sounds good. >> Nobody's going to buy a bond that says CBC on the top. You're going to buy a
bond that says Manchester by the Sea on the top, which >> I mean, I bought bonds. >> It's got to say Manchester by the Sea on the top. I mean, as much as >> I beg your pardon. >> Say Jack Burke.
>> Yeah. Now there's an A. It's an idea. >> That that would be about an F rating right now. Just just to restate what you said, Andrea, even if the bond were to be paid by the CPC, the bond would be would say
Manchester. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> The town effectively would be issuing >> would be the Lor. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> In the big picture. >> Well, I think you're right. But the only
issue is you give up the 16ish percent. >> Well, and% next year >> and and the other >> I mean they're they're buying $16,000 size and and
>> putting 200,000 into a >> well that's different. I think you know >> the Bob vats last year >> and this time I got >> I wanted also be you know a you get the some some benefit from spade and b it kind of is a premise that people with
getting stuck >> and my argument is lower the CPC rate if you don't feel we should be spending money through CPC you know that it's not >> yeah that's not a bad argument that's that's a different argument >> different the problem with CPC is if you have it now you have these other things we have to put cash away from that we
may or may not want to do right So, >> or you or you make sure the town's people are happy stockpiling money into certain projects when there's enough critical mass to do something like affordable housing or land acquisition
or something. Well, and buying a rotunda, the bath house was such a priority and the beach brings in so much income and and for them to be requesting trash barrels and s stuff to make their employees work easier as opposed to some
I wanted something more resident focused. >> Right. >> But I don't think that's the question we're dealing with. The question that Sarah's asked us is the question of the source of the debt source debt the debt payments. >> Right. Right. No, no, you may have thoughts on the CPC budget, but >> well, just we want money
>> the deal here, buddy. >> The point was for the um priority being bath house and not all this other stuff that it's just too big right now. >> Where do you want the debt service to be paid? That's the question. You got two choices. >> Oh, I found bond. Yeah, >> bond. Okay, there you go. Got it.
>> Yeah. >> Sarah, what if the CPC gave you a million dollars cash over the next three years? >> And that might happen. That would be fine. Would reduce the amount of bond we need to issue. >> Well, what I'm saying in addition to what you have, we if we gave you
$200,000 at this town meeting and then $400, and 27 and 400,28 before the bond payment came due, you could borrow a million dollars less than we're talking about right now. >> Fabulous. >> Correct. >> That' be that'd be fine. >> Great idea.
>> Yeah, it's a great idea. >> We'd like that. >> We write that down. >> Sold. But I think we're going to end up with being town bonds. Whatever is left from whatever >> and we just have to appropriate the whole amount up front so they can go out
to bid and it doesn't hit the tax rate >> until we actually bond it. >> Yeah. >> I got it. >> Yeah. So, we need a motion to >> No, I think we're just giving Jack input
budget. >> And I think and I think Tony's probably going to want to take it up when he gets back. >> Oh, you will. >> Yeah. I was going to say I'm like one thing that I will say that Tony will say is that like to John's point too is that like you're giving up the 17% and if you're already willing to take, you know, 200 and 400 and 400, which is like
pretty much what their budget is for the next two years, then what's the difference of borrowing it through CBC? um you know if you're already gonna have the project costs from from them >> um because also >> it's not locking you in long term
>> it wouldn't lock us for 20 years. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Y >> if we said the CPC is gone tomorrow I should say after we bond from CBC and we vote to get rid of the CPC then it's our bond >> right? >> It's still under CPC though
>> right but but it's it's our >> get rid of CP bond. You can't get rid of CPC if you have the bond. >> Why? >> Because CPC has to pay for it. Right. >> Right. >> So, you have to keep CPC, which means you have to continue paying for those other things.
>> Those trash hookines of where the funding is coming from the hook. So, no one really cares if the CPC is there or not because >> I think they do. At the end of the day, the town's going to pay for it. >> I don't I think Isn't the CPC locked in? >> It's locked in. Yes. Yes. But
>> you can't just get rid of it. >> Well, you can get rid of it. You can dis like dissolve it, if you will, but we would just still have to charge a CPC fee in the amount of the debt service. >> So, you'd still be paying CPC, >> but we'd still be getting a match.
>> We' be paying debt service anyway. Still got to pay the bonds. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, all right. All right. >> So that's like Tony's >> arrow. >> It does. >> Yeah. >> And we made it to the goal line.
>> Yes. >> Excellent. >> All right. >> Congratulations. >> Hopefully Ann for the select board has picked up our general feelings on this. >> Yeah, I know. He's probably sick of our general opious oath over there.
Sarah, will you be voting on the slate that we have right here or ask us to make changes? >> So, where does this leave changes coming? >> Well, I I I'd like to make one more
point if I could. um with the CBC if we you know looked at those you know funding schedules that we put together and we just did 1.5% for 20 years that's not a tax increase for people so but if you put it outside of CPS then that would be a tax increase
just want to make >> unless we for operational cuts >> it's a real estate transaction tax right a debt oh yeah real estate tax CPC Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> But I'm just saying like you won't see a >> Yeah. Right. Another point we have. >> So Jack, are you looking for some input from us? >> Well, normally Yeah. >> your existing schedule.
>> Yeah. Yes. Um >> Okay. >> I would like to know if you'd support it as is or not support it as is. So, I thought you had said that you were maybe talking with some of the your team about changing some of this and we tend
to kind of like to vote on hard numbers. >> Not voting. We're just giving him input. >> Oh, input. Right. >> There's been conversation about the affordable housing trust, conversation about CPC. >> Y >> I mean,
>> right. Right. Right. >> So, do we want to make a suggestion. >> We I don't I don't expect any changes. I don't expect any changes in these numbers unless you tell us you wouldn't support something. >> I'd like to make a suggestion on these
numbers. >> Okay. >> I'd suggest that the $200,000 for the housing be deferred for this year. >> Should it go to the rotunda? I'd leave that up to the CPC, but I don't think I I am persuaded by Gar's
comments here that to put more money into something that best I can tell from all the people are better informed than I am. Sounds like you we have a not been successful in committing the funds to build a unit or buy a unit of housing.
And I'm not sure why we are taxing people to put money into a fund that seems to be administratively also difficult to work with because of the nature of state law. I I hope I've captured this, but it's
that's what I hear. So I would say CPC I don't favor in these all these numbers from CPC the 200,000. I would not put that more money into the housing trust. One just question for you is they're
sort of obligated to put in 56,394 as a 10% for housing. Should it be 200,000 minus that amount? >> So about 140,000 is what you're suggesting instead of 200,000. >> Well, I'm confused about the obligation
for the statutory 10%. If it's truly an obligation, then I'm Yes, Mory. I I'm I'm I don't quite understand. So, what is the statutory amount get actually spent on? >> No, >> it is it is an it is an obligation that
we either must spend it or put it aside. >> And if you put it in the affordable housing trust, it's probably going to earn more interest than if it's sitting in CPC. >> Yes. >> Put in an account. >> That's correct. this requires piece of funding in that category.
>> So I guess we don't have it. Yeah. So it's got to be an answer just more yes because if it's an OB obligated a statutoily obligated allocation. >> We just have to appropriate it or set it aside. >> Right. So we can set it aside until a project gets built.
>> It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be sent to the the affordable housing trust per. >> Yeah. I just go it on a separate line almost like a free cash. I have like a unreserved free cash but then I have the three categories. So if we don't
appropriate that minimum 10% I set it aside for that specific >> purpose taxpayers. Exactly. >> Exactly right. Yeah. >> So put it in the trust where it earns more money than the tax. >> Okay. >> So more you're correct. I would take a net amount. >> So we'll go to 60,000
>> 140. Okay. Whatever 140 >> or we recommend CPC consider only a 60. >> That's right. I'm the best because I know over >> Is that what the sense of the board is? >> I think so. Yeah. >> I think Peter is such a rational person. >> I agree.
>> Want to suggest that any cash amount go to the rotunda? >> I would encourage that. >> Yeah. Okay. doesn't want to just pause it before I urge CPC to the extent whenever possible that it go.
>> So you get that Jack? >> Yes, I'll talk to Tony on Monday. Yep. >> Okay, great. Thanks. >> Not entirely sure I know everything where we've gotten, but we're going to hear something on Monday, I guess. >> Yes, >> we got there.
Um, leazison is on updates. Anything? >> Nothing. No for me. >> Minutes from January 8th. >> I move we adopt them. >> Did you see the comments I sent at 6:30? >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> I did. I I saw them. Yeah. >> And I'm My motion pertains to them pre your comments. That is >> to put them out. Yes. She made an adjustment. That is a revised. And that's my motion is to adopt the revised
prior to your additional comments that I think I got today. >> Yes. I I just saw it when I got home. >> I know. I know. But I I think they're appropriate in the in the revised draft.
>> I don't know if anybody's that motion, but that's the motion. Yeah. Second. Any discussion? >> Yeah, I would like to invest money my uh gohead. So
close. I see your attachment, but I don't see any red lines or anything on it. >> Oh, yeah. Why is it so on the iPhone? It doesn't. So, let me see if I can remember what I redlined. >> You put about five different things in there.
>> Um, I had wanted to mention can can we discuss this next week, El Copy? Or does somebody have the red line >> and on mine? They're blue lined on mine. >> Well, are your changes?
>> Tell us about the changes. Are your changes what actually happened on the tape or are your changes things that you wish you'd said that you didn't? >> No, they were um things that I said that weren't weren't like an important
comment about um >> the the um >> I have it here. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I have the red lines here. >> I don't want us to be rewriting minutes. No, these are important comments that were not >> and I don't even want comments attached
to people, >> right? >> I want summaries. >> That's fine. >> I don't want all these details. So, I don't want to be adding to the detail, >> right? I really think that someone in the committee should do the notes to tell you the truth because this is like it's almost harassment.
What's going on with >> Dean? That's an inappropriate comment. >> Okay. want me to say what they were? >> Okay. Um, so under the parking discussion, yeah, um, end of after the last paragraph, Mr. is proposed edit is
Mr. Nihadis asked whether there was a period of time for the parking stick contract and whether there would be any penalties to get out of it. >> I don't think that's appropriate. >> You don't remember me saying that? >> I I don't think it it has anything to do with the finance committee. It was a
question for financial information on whether we can get out of this rig ridiculous contract or not. >> We think finance committee doesn't have anything to do with the contracts entered into by the select board. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we >> that was a comment that I wanted to make
about the parking meters. Okay. If you don't want if you want to strike it, it's your committee. Well, jeez. It seems like for for a resident to be volunteering his time and to to have a comment like that be strucken, it's it's harassment. Is there an answer?
>> I don't recall if there was an answer >> because it was too late. >> Well, the answer was I thought that they were going to look into it and get back to us whether there was a penalty or not or what the what the terms of the contract was. >> I don't remember. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Let's delay review of these minutes till the next meeting. >> Yeah, go over pretty strong. >> Yeah, I would. >> Oh, okay. Sorry. Okay. >> I mean, so either you got to vote the motion. >> Okay. So So Peter made a motion to approve the minutes without Dean's
changes. >> Right. >> Right. >> And who seconded it? >> I second it. >> John seconded. Okay. So we're going to take a vote on that. >> Yes. >> Okay. Unless there's a proposed amendment to it. >> The and the thing I put them mine was
prior to these additional comments. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. Yep. I'm ready. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Dean. >> Yes. >> John. >> Yes. >> Yeah.
>> Several subject. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, I've issued the agenda for the next meeting. Um, the next meeting we're doing Harbor Finance Department and then I just put a caveat any other town
departments that we have time for. And I also included on the agenda the listed topics for the remaining meetings through March 5th. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> People have that um readily available. Um, school is
>> we know of a date I think. It was the last Thursday of the month of February. >> February. >> Not the 19th. It's the next year. It was >> I'm sorry. There was one thing on the minutes that was incorrect that needs to be corrected. And that was that I abstained from the minutes that I that I
seconded that we approved. I did approve those minutes. I abstained from the minutes from the month the week before that I wasn't at. So that was very incorrect on these minutes and I would like that changed. So,
what minutes are you saying you did not abstain from the >> the 1120? It's right there that I seconded to approve them and then it says that I abstained from them and I did approve them because we made the
so it was the the we did two sets of minutes I believe. >> Do you accept that amendment to your motion? you what's the amendment to to to >> was removed that I abstained that I accepted that we all accepted it's >> we're talking about the minutes of
January 15 >> believe so yeah >> well I'm looking at them >> right >> okay >> so >> so on the the previous meeting or that meeting >> I can read it >> yeah okay >> so uh the commentary uh leading up to
the proposed change miss moved to approve January 8th 26 minutes as amended Ed, Mr. Nihadus seconded the motion. The motion passed. >> He's often Mr. Nihadus abstaining. >> 15. >> Right. Right. So it says that you second
it and then it says that you abstained. So that's a contradiction. >> The minutes you're talking about are the the January 8th, not the 15th. >> Correct. >> No, he's talking about the 15th. >> No, this is a note that's in the 15th
minutes relative to 88 minutes. So yeah. So I think that I think I mean I seconded it so I approved it but it was the the meeting that I wasn't able to make um that I abstained from. So I think there was confusion and the tape must
not be clear. >> Okay, >> that seems fine if it's a factual correction. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think so. >> The adjustment's fine from my point of view in the motion. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> If that makes any difference in terms of
what anybody's vote. Okay, >> we've spent entirely too much time on this stuff. >> Um, >> exciting minutes. >> Ridiculous. >> Do I have a motion to >> I will journal
over the infection.