Good evening everybody. Um, welcome to the Manchester Planning Board. Nice to meet you. Um, sorry here. Uh if somebody online can just give me
the thumbs up that you can hear us. Okay, thank you. Um the um going to call the meeting to order. Uh present we have Brian Fry >> here. >> Sue Filbrick here. Um Mark >> Peter
>> Peter Morton and our planner Mark Resnik. Um Gordon Brewster is um going to be absent tonight. Um and uh I think Sandy is on her way. So uh the first order of
business um we do have a hearing tonight um for the Harbor Dredging, but we're going to first take a um approval not required followed by um Walter Theodore Miller um at six Brookwood Road. Um, is
anybody here for that? >> Yeah, that's me. >> Oh, hi. >> Hi. It's my wife's name is on the screen, but I'm Walter Miller. >> Hi there. >> Um, great. Okay. Um, I can bring up the
plan. Um, if you want to just describe to us what you're trying to do, that would be great. >> Okay. Um, thank you for the opportunity. Um and thank you for your consideration. Um so uh my sister and I uh inherited
this property and um we are looking to so my my father passed away uh last August and we are looking to carve out uh an eight 8 acre parcel that goes along with the existing uh doicile
um that will then um most likely be sold. Um we want to keep the remaining land as much as possible as is. Um and get this into a sort of a state the most
sort of desirable size um and and uh put a boundary that conforms with the uh topography etc. includes the existing leeching uh field septic system etc. and
uh also have sort of the minimum frontage um that that would be required for the property. Um they're looking to carve it out uh and and unfortunately sell it at some point. So the property would include a p parcel in Manchester
as well as Beverly. Um I'm going to be going through the same process uh later on this month uh with Beverly, the city of Beverly. Um, again, we are not looking to uh make any uh not looking to to to make any changes to the existing
structures. Uh, we're just trying to carve out a smaller uh kind of more marketable piece of land that includes everything that a new owner would require to live there happily. And uh so that's the purpose of this request.
So you're currently the existing charts are are having a hard time figuring out what's the existing lot lines. >> It's a little tricky. Um yeah, so just for the I guess the Manchester portion
um it's I mean you can sort of it's very tricky. It's it's a sort of very old kind of following all kinds of uh uh wood sort of u walls in the woods etc. Um
and hopefully it makes sense. In the middle of that is an you know sort of an island um of an acre and a half that is where um my wife my family and I live. So my parents carved out an acre and a half and we have a house there that's
all remaining the same. Um so it's just Sorry. Go ahead. Is there a question? >> I was trying to make my cursor but I think I don't have control over the cursor. Yeah, his his parcel that he's talking
about is the one that's labeled uh six Brookwood >> is the one that's kind of in the the large larger piece >> that exists already as an island within the larger piece.
>> That's correct. >> And everything else is the larger piece. >> That's correct. And he wants to do is the first home and I believe that's for Brookwood. He wants to put that on its own part property and then have
uh a parcel that surrounds uh number six and then another property that is as you drive in on the left that's mostly in Beverly. >> So he's making a donut and a crawler.
Yep. The pastry shop that we're opening up here. >> Okay. So, right now, just to restate that, uh, lot one, lot two, and lot three are all one parcel. >> Um, so
currently, correct? Yes. >> Currently. Okay. >> Yes. >> And your and six Brookwood Road is not is already a separate uh plot. >> That's out of scope, right? And that is a That's the donnut hole. Um.
>> Okay. And you want to make three. >> Exactly. >> One, two, and three. Okay. >> Exactly. >> Um Okay. Um recommendation from you, Mark. >> The plan be endorsed. >> Okay. Um give us the reasons.
>> Uh There's a the road going around the back. It's the roads around the back of the school. Then it goes up past number six and it keeps going off the land here. That road's all been repaved.
Um so it provides um very good access for um for the lots that are here. So >> Okay. And we have the required frontage of
this plan doesn't tell us what zones is in. Oh yeah. District safe. Um, other questions for folks. >> Um, the one one question I have is that
um the fee paid was $500. It should be um per lot. So, it should be 750. alive. So, it should be 750.
>> Yeah. Thank you. I'll I'll whatever whatever the guidance is, I'll comply. I was thinking that the Manchester lots there are two Manchester lots now where there was one um there will be a Beverly lot and I'm paying Beverly for those for
that for that as well. So I it seemed like I was that that that third lot is being covered by the Beverly the town of town the city of Beverly U process. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, it but it is a man it has a
portion in Manchester, right? Two portions of >> Well, so the it the the Manchester parcel is is one parcel currently and it's becoming two. Um, this lot will
include um the two acres in Beverly, but I'm going through that process with Beverly. I'm taking the Beverly lot and splitting that as well and paying for that. So I was on the my my
interpretation was that for Manchester I'm I there's one lot and I'm making it two and I'm happy to but >> I will go whatever you decide. >> Okay. And then lot um Mark lot one has
puntage alongfield road. Not sure exactly how much um 1630 ft. >> Well no it's not 160 ft. It's something less than that. >> It Yeah. I think it's 158.
>> No one has 158 in Manchester. What one? Oh, I see what you're saying. >> Line is the city line, city. And so, um, do we need to worry that there's not frontage, sufficient frontage in Manchester?
>> And I guess the other question I have more for you. Well, let's answer that first question. >> I don't think so. Um but the little portion
is I mean lot extends all the way actually no the lot has it includes the way um all the way through here. So >> it has frontage even though it does it's
across two towns. >> Yeah. topography such that you didn't want to follow the city line. >> Um, two reasons. The topography it was one that the
parcel of land that is um the small piece that's left in Manchester that's on the on the road there is marshy as is the land that's in Beverly. Number one. Number two, um we wanted to make sure
that we were only providing say the minimum for one. I know that there was ways around it, but we wanted we were thinking let's make it uh just the minimum for uh frontage for this lot that we're carving out to we were trying to take a conservative approach as
possible. >> Any other comments or questions? Um, has anyone asked the question? I'm just curious. The p the parcels a lot of the wild is shaped. I mean, is there a we is that to >> the question is why are the parcels
shaped in this way >> is that topography is what's >> that is 100% topography. Yeah, it's definitely topography. And then uh we needed we wanted to include the existing uh leeching field which is the northern
sort of horn up top there. Um that is so we included um that area there and that that it's a historically very weird unusual how it all evolved. um you know
centuries of you know things being sliced up and you know walls being moved and so forth. So we were we were sort of following that historical you know practice as well. >> Thanks.
>> Um and I have one other question and it says the plan of land is prepared for Linda Miller for Brookwood Road. Is that the deed is Linda Miller's name? She's not living, is she? >> Correct. Yep. Uh, it's in my mother's
name. She passed away in 2015. Uh, and it passed to my father. He passed away last August. Uh, and my sister and I inherited the land. We're going to need to resolve that for sure.
>> Okay. So, the deed is still in her name. I'm under the impression that it's under my father's name. I think it passed to him. So, this that might be stale information that the surveyor somehow referenced.
>> I think we can endorse it if it's not in the name of the person who owns the land. >> I'm gonna stop sharing. I happen to have I may have an answer on that second. Was a deed filed or was it just like a
transferred in the trust? >> Exactly. Yes. It's all in the trust. >> So, no. If it just transferred in a trust, they might not have filed a deed. Oh. Um. >> All right. Well, the assessor has it in
your name. Interestingly enough, >> the assessor. Um, so my father and I have the same name. >> Um, >> I think that might be >> that's probably >> Yeah. >> So the assessor has it in the Walter
Miller name. So I don't think we can endorse the plan if the unless we know that that's the um uh proper name. So, what I'm going to suggest is that we take a motion to
endorse the plan as present uh um and given that we're not going to meet till January um that we uh and authorize me to um uh sign an amended plan once the um ownership has been confirmed by the
applicant. Um so um so I would take a motion to endorse the plan of land in Manchester, Mass prepared for Linda Dunlap Miller or uh as amended
um at or Brookwood Road. I think this is also six road. Yeah, the the the address is four, but your your mailing address is four.
>> Yeah, the property is four. My my my address is six. I'm in that island. That's six Brookwood Road. So, the >> Okay. Sorry. Um, >> no problem. >> Sorry. Let me just I put that in. Okay.
Um okay. So prepared for Linda Dunlop Miller or um as amended at for Brookwood Road prepared by Leblanc Survey Associates October 15 2025 scale 1 in equals 80 ft.
Peter moved that. >> So move second. >> Sandy seconded. Any other discussion? Um, and I if you can't get us that information within
by December 19th, then I'm also going to ask you for a extension. Um, >> okay. >> Because we have 21 days to do this if we want to make it right. So, um, if you, uh, give us a verbal that if you don't
get this straightened out by December 20, if we receive this on the first, >> that you will give us an extension um, to get it correct. I mean, we're endorse it. So, I think you're fine. >> Okay, that's great. Um, and if I could
just make sure I understand what is required. Um, like a a document >> mark know who owns the land. >> Oh, okay. >> Change the >> Yeah. And change and then put the If
it's Linda, fine. Then we'll sign it. If it's somebody else, then let's It should be whatever's on the deed. >> Got it. That's >> And make sure the plan says whoever's on the deed >> um is correct. >> Okay. So, we're gonna need to get a new myar.
>> If you need to change it. Yeah. >> If you need to change it. Okay. >> And so, if >> Okay. >> Sorry. If it's in my If it's in Linda Miller's name, >> then you're good to go. >> Then it's good to go. Okay. Got it. >> Okay. >> And then before we close this out, uh
what do we think about the um given that mo the majority of the land is in Manchester, stick with the $500? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Senses on the You're good on the $500. Um, I'll take a vote. All in favor? >> Chair votes. Yes. Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Yep. We'll check with Mark. You're not meeting. We're not planning on meeting. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> And um yeah, if you guys can give us these back so we can um Yeah, sign. >> You need them all.
>> Yeah, unless you want to graph your Christmas present. Big enough. Uh okay. So the um next uh item is the public hearing for the Manchester
Harbor Entrance Channel and Waring Basin at Proxit Cove Maintenance Dredging Project Special Permit. So at this time I'm going to turn this uh over to Sue um to presside over this and I can share
my the screen the plan. >> Great. I will um take a motion to open the public hearing on the request for a special permit under section 4.2F1 2F1 of the zoning bylaw submitted by the town of Manchester for a special permit
to authorize maintenance dredging at the Manchester Harbor entrance of Proctor Cove to be placed below the me high water line and which requires a state license under section 18 of chapter 9 of the mass general laws.
So move second. >> Is there a second? >> Yeah. All in favor of opening the public hearing. >> Abstain. >> No. One, two, three, four, five. In
favor, one obstension. Okay. Um, who is here to present on the application? >> Good evening everyone. Uh, this is Nate D. Roger with DPW. Uh we also have Bayan Pike uh the harbor
master on the call and our consulting engineers both infrastructure and with them we have Jessica Heath, Fiona Vardy and Jimmy Hill. Uh I believe Jessica is going to put to walk us through a quick presentation uh of the project.
>> And with that I'll turn it over to her. >> Hi everyone. Um are you do you want me to share my screen or are you going to share yours for the plan >> presentation? Why don't you go ahead and share? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Just ask for permission, you know.
>> All right. >> Okay. Can you guys see my screen? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> All right. Um so I'll start off with the overview of the project location. So we have um the maintenance dredging project
and the entrance channel and then Proctor Cove. Um and then it's going to be disposal out and offshore at the Massachusetts Bay disposal site out here. Um and I'll
pull up the plans and kind of talk through them. So we've split the dredge areas into three different areas that we're calling A, B, and C. So A is the outer entrance channel. Um B is the
inner entrance channel and then C is Proctor Cove. And we have um an example cross-section here of the proposed dredging. So the entrance channel is 100 ft wide. Um and
then Proctor Cove is the width varies since it's in a regular shape. Um so we're proposing dredging to -10.33 ft mean low water with a foot of allowable overdredge in the inner and outer entrance channel. And then in
Proctor Cove, we're proposing dredging to -7.33 ft mean low water with a foot of allowable overdredge with typical 3:1 slope. And uh for volumes in the outer entrance
channel, we have approximately 18,570 cubic yards. uh just over 6,100 cubic yards in the inner entrance channel and just over 28,000 cubic yards in Proctor Cove which totals to uh just shy of
53,000 cubic yards of dredge material. Um, so we are we are showing all of the areas that are below the 10.33 or the 7.33 in Proctor Cove as shaded in gray
here. So that would be the proposed dredge areas that are shallower than those um required depths. And then we there's also we've done a couple of eel grass surveys. there's uh quite a bit of eel grass prevalent in
the dredge areas. Um so we have we'll be working with regulatory agencies um for mitigation measures and um we have received an order of conditions from the conservation commission. Um and
I'll just show you guys what it stated regarding eel grass. Um so we're going to implement a eelgrass mitigation plan between the town and um the regulatory agencies which um we are working with and then it might include receding of
eel grass um or other mitigation measures as what's deemed necessary. And um the material that we are dredging is mostly medium to fine sands with fine
grain organic marine silt and clay. Um the project's main goal is to restore navigation and maintain access for recreational and commercial vessels by removing sediment buildup that has reduced the channel depths in this area.
So it's maintenance dredging only. Um, there's no widening or deepening beyond what has previously been dredged in the past. And then, as I showed in the Google Earth image, the dredge material will be transported about 12 nautical miles offshore to the Massachusetts Bay
disposal site. Um, so the channel is used year round by commercial and recreational boers, uh, providing access to marinas, boatyards, charter boats, fishing boats, and pleasure craft. So many many local
businesses rely on safe navigable waters. So without this dredging the sediment will continue to accumulate and increase the risk of vessel groundings and potentially making the channel and cove unusable even at higher tide cycles
which would create a safety hazard, limit public access and harm the local economy. Visually the majority of the dredging is going to occur below the mean high water mark. So there will be no visual impacts
uh post dredging. There are a couple of very small inner tidal zones um within like right here is an example in here too within Proctor Cove um where there is visual material at low tide. So you may be able to see post dredging impacts
at low tide in these areas. Um for the construction period, the dredging is proposed to occur 247 from October through December of 2026, which is within the time of year restrictions
um set by the regulatory agencies to protect sensitive species. So working around the clock is essential since we work with tides and dredging. So the high and low tides affect access and efficiency. If we limit work to daytime
hours only, we'd miss valuable tide windows, risk delays, that could extend the project beyond the allowed seasonal period. And then um yeah, the continuous operations allow us to use every tide cycle, keep steady progress, and
complete the project safely and on time without environmental impact. For the zoning bylaws, the project complies with the Manchester by the Sea zoning bylaws, covering lighting, noise, neighborhood character, traffic, and
fiscal impact. As far as lighting goes, nighttime lighting will be limited to shielded downward-facing fixtures focused on the immediate work area on the dredge platform. Um, the design reduces glare and prevents light from
spilling toward nearby properties. And barges and tugs will use standard marine navigation lighting supplemented by low inensity focus work lights for safety purposes. Um, and then as far as noise
goes, all equipment, including generators, will be properly maintained and fitted with sound dampening enclosures and mufflers to reduce noise as necessary. Um, and we'll limit any unnecessarily idling and plan tug and
scal movements efficiently to minimize noise. And the offshore disposal is occurs far away from the residential areas. So that won't cause any disturbance there. The project is not into won't alter any
upland topography or drainage, disturb natural habitats or clear um vegetation and the construction is 100% water-based. So there shouldn't be there should be no significant pedestrian,
bicycle or vehicle traffic generated as a result of this project. And the dredging supports the commercial fishing fleet and recreational boating comp community in order to maintain safe navigation year round.
Um so we have dredging scheduled during periods of least biological activity and best management practices like turbidity curtains and environmental buckets will be utilized to minimize sediment disturbance. As far as permitting goes, we have an
individual permit application in with the Army Corps, which is under review. As I mentioned previously, we have um received an order of conditions from the Conservation Commission last week. And then we will soon be submitting an
expanded environmental notification form to MEPA as well as chapter 91 and 401 water quality certification applications to Mass D. Um so in summary, maintenance dredging is vital for safe navigation, public
access, and the economic health of Manchester Harbor. The town is committed to minimizing impacts on residents and the environment while completing the work efficiently and safely. Um, thank you guys. Do you have any questions?
>> Um, I have a couple if that's okay if I start. Um, I guess the um dredging was done previously. Uh, do you know when it was done last? >> I believe it was in 2001. Jimmy, correct
me if I'm wrong. >> That's right. That is correct. >> And did you have to get a special permit back then? >> I don't believe they did. That was
before my time. Um, so I'm not I'm not sure, but I don't I don't think there was one. I couldn't find any in any sort of records. >> Okay. Um, I was just curious what conditions, if any, were
um established before. Uh, but it sounds like this might be the first time it comes before the planning board. Is that right? The dredging. >> Yeah, as far as we know. So, uh, I reached out to the town clerk today to
see if the previous dredging effort with in a different area of the harbor, uh, that was done in 2017 18 had a special permit and she was not able to locate, uh, anything related to that dredging effort. So, it's kind of our assumption
at this point that this would be the first one uh, for with a special permit. >> Okay. Um, I think that's it if Well, I guess if you could go through the specifics on
the lighting and the noise again because my one concern I mean clearly we need the dredging duck. There's no question that the town, this is crucial for the town, but um this is in a thickly
settled area and with the 247 operation, the lighting and noise, I mean, obviously the neighborhood will be impacted. So, could you just go through again what you'll be doing um regarding
the lighting and the noise? >> Yeah. So, um, for for the lighting, it's all downward-facing fixtures. Um, and it'll just be focused on, um, the dredge
platform and the in the work area. So, we'll try to mitigate as much as we can um any lighting going, you know, affecting the abutters. And then as far as uh noise um the all of the equipment
will have mufflers to reduce the noise um such as you know generators and then um sound dampening enclosures can be implemented as well as necessary. Um and then we will limit any unnecessarily
idling um during all all hours of operations but definitely during the night time as well. >> So then this is 247 for 6 months. >> No, for October through December. So
>> three months. And I would assume that um this is a requirement, but all of those abunders will be notified, will continue to be notified. I mean, I can't help but remember the whole cell signaling and what went on with the
folks living around that neighborhood. And I think we should learn from that and just make sure that a really good communication plan in place so that they're prepared and aren't surprised. >> Yeah. So as part of the um NOI
submission process, we had to notify all the abutters and do a public hearing there as well with the conservation commission. And then um as part of the army corps application process, we have to notify the butters as well. um really throughout the
majority of the permitting we're we're notifying of butters >> but once the but once the project starts I think that's our our area of concern you know there needs to be a channel for
uh the residents in that area they need somebody who will pick up the phone and talk to them or answer their emails when the light is shining right into their bedroom at 2 am or things like that. I mean, and it it happens, you know,
despite all the best efforts. So, um, is there a communication plan uh in place during the project for the above? >> And if there isn't then a condition.
>> Yep. So, I'll jump in. I mean, DPW and the Harvard Master Office will be, you know, managing the project. Um, we can certainly w work with Tiffany Marleta, uh, the town's communic communications director, uh, to, you know, at the start of construction and
do notifications as we do for, you know, any of our other utility projects. um using all the social media. We could do more direct uh you know door hangers and flyers uh out to that you know area. Um
and you know for points of contact dayto-day it would be myself and Bion. >> Correct. By here I I agree with everything Nate said. we would uh make uh good use of uh Tiffany's communication and certainly my
office as well and what other of whatever other steps that u u folks deemed appropriate >> and I would certainly hope that you know we can you know work with the contractor to minimize you know them being in
Proctor Cove for instance overnight if possible given that you know there are areas of the dredging on the outer channel that are, you know, much further away from residences that you can do, you know, more uh of it at all tide
periods. Um, you know, I think the lowlying or the low uh water depth areas are really going to be the ones that are most affected by that title schedule. Um, so trying to hit those during the day as much as possible, I think is something we would certainly uh stress
to the contractor to minimize any disruption uh in that area. >> That would be great. >> So, is most of the work cut at high tide? Is that what happens? >> They just need depth for the barge to be able to float in and then be able to
reach and dredge the particular areas. So, you know, especially in Proctor Cove where you have some shallower points and you're getting close to land. H Yeah, perfect. You know, you're you're going to have to get a dredge most of the way in there. Um, you know, so it's just
working those tide schedules to be able to get all the way in, uh, and do it efficiently, I think, is the big thing. Um >> so at some points during the day there won't be any activity going on at all because the title too low
>> in those areas they could relocate and go to you know deeper portions of the work where they can you know work even in those low tide areas or at low tide I should say. >> Yeah there's there's other areas of the
channel that they'll be able to access during low tide that still need dredging. And and importantly too that uh the dump schedule once the scow is filled that needs to go offshore and be dumped as well. So there there isn't dredging
activity during that time. >> And can you just um can I'm I'm I'm sorry if this has been um discussed previously, but I am unaware of just the status of the the contractors that are going to will be doing this work.
So we'll have to go out through mass procurement laws uh chapter 30 39M uh just as we do for any uh of our utility projects. So, we'll put out uh a full set of specifications and plans that will be bid on uh by, you know, local
contractors. >> And then with everything that happened over in Essex um with their dredging effort, I I'm sure I hope that we won't experience that, but I would imagine that there'll be um particular care in
selecting who the contractor ultimately is. Uh so I'm not familiar with that. Um we will certainly have minimum minimum qualifications within the spec that the contractor has to meet. Outside of that uh based on mass general laws uh we have
to uh the we have to uh enter a contract with the lowest eligible and responsive bidder. So I mean after we get bids we do uh do reference checks um evaluate their bid um but it is uh
it is quite difficult to uh remove a contractor or I should say to disqualify a contractor. And I'm sorry that I I hope that this wasn't already covered as well, but the um the funding for the uh grant that's
referenced in the um in the materials that we received, what's the status of of that? It hasn't been released yet. Um, we're expecting it's the SEC grant
funding, right, Nate, that we're >> Yes. >> Waiting on Yeah. So, as far as Oh, go ahead. >> It's actually mass works. Uh, but I believe the U execution is through SEC.
So, combination. So, we'll be applying for it when when the time comes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other comments or questions from the board? >> How about the public? Um,
nobody's on. >> Yes. >> Okay. This is Sarah Kraton, uh, Proctor Street, speaking at Sarah Kraton, not as a member of the planning board. Um, but I'm the chair also of the Harbor Management Task Force. We have recently
completed a draft plan and one of the recommendations is that the town continue to dra uh dredge. It's important for navigation, um, safe passage, the economy, all of the reasons that um,
the representative from mentioned. Um so it's uh import the harbor management task force felt that dredging was a important for the town to continue moving along >> and any comments as of the
>> as of um no I think that it should be expected that this kind of work has to happen I'm not worried about it >> at all hours >> at all I think we had experienced it with the some of that with the earlier
dredging. Um most were you know the most recent dredging same thing they worked 21 you know 24 hours a day. I just I have one question uh so we don't um end up with the issue in Essex
as I've written the paper was that areas weren't dredged as as deeply as they should have been or as far back and now it's creating uh silting and shallow areas much sooner than it should have.
uh we have a way of um monitoring um post dredging to ensure that uh it was completed to the depth. I mean, can uh you go out with your boat by on with depth sounders or
uh or do they provide certain reports >> post so post dredge uh the uh contractor goes out and verifies that the I'm sorry that both goes out and verifies that the dredging contractor has met the uh
appropriate depth requirements. >> Yeah. So we will we'll perform a post dredge survey and if it's not to the required depths then they have to continue dredging to make sure that they achieve the required depths and they
won't get paid for it until it passes. >> Hi this is Jimmy Hill with both. We um we actually yeah you specialize in putting these specs together and and we do uh you know the pre and post dredge surveys in house. Um and we have that language you know representing the owner
the town uh we have that language built in uh you know to protect the town from um you know a project like that. So, can I can I just say um staying on that topic um in that article that Mark
referenced that I read as well was alarming in that um the contractor left Essex from what the article said basically without recourse. And I just um I think it would make sense that uh Bion and Nate, if you haven't already,
to talk to your counterparts over in Essics to maybe take some learnings from what they found out as you work your way through this process. >> Oh, that's uh that's absolutely something that happens and has happened already. I've actually taken tu spoken
with some people who worked on uh some of those barges and uh we will absolutely do our due diligence to make sure Manchester doesn't experience that.
>> Thanks B. >> So no one from the public. Any more questions from the board comments? >> Just around the special permitting process here just because that hadn't been done in the past. What is what is our involvement in that for these
projects with dredging? Um specifically like what action do we need to take here? Um so our task is we can grant the application only upon our determination
that the adverse effects of the proposed use the dredging will not outweigh its beneficial impacts to the town. Um and that's in 12.5 of our zoning bylaw. And then the standards are in
6.3.3. Um, and really because there are so many environmental reviews, it's really just the lighting and the noise in my opinion that sort of applied to our review. Um,
I don't know if you've been different. Yeah, they they actually did um go through each of the criteria and address them which is very helpful. Yes, >> it is helpful here both here and here. >> Yeah, do do we have the ability to
impose a condition? >> Sure. For Peter's comment about the on communications, I think that'll save a lot of grief. Um, any proposed language of a of a condition? >> Oh, Carl, sorry. Public Carl.
>> I'm sorry. I'm stuck in the corner here. >> I just say a few words. >> Yeah. >> 19 >> Carl Dome. >> Thanks. >> Two Summer Street by the Sea. Uh, I've been on the committee a long time before
when John Harrison was in charge and then they uh got me back on again. But back in ' 87, they came into dredge. It was more they didn't finish in the winter months. They came back in the spring like May, June. The rig broke down. They had to
leave. And so the question was to the harbor committee, do you want to keep it going? Do you want to leave it where it is? and we said let's let's get it done properly. It was a mish pash out. It was a a horrendous show. Since then in ' 87 they didn't dredge for 25 or 30 years.
We've been paying playing catchup and since Bayern has done some planning out there. We have had the last two or three dredge sessions we've had the same people come down from Maine. They bid on it like everybody else does but we know
them. They know us. They know that the town likes to dampen the lights. Um, and it's a smooth project. Uh, we don't know yet until the bids go out, but I believe the same people would be bidding again because they have done a lot of work on
Cape and Manchester to Salem Bay. Uh, there has not been a situation like there was in Essex. Manchester never had a situation like that. Uh, I think that was something that happened. It's maybe
hopefully one of a kind. But the way Brian has run the the programs the last two or three dredgings, he's done a super job. He's organized. He knows the people. He knows who to if you've got a question, you go to Lion or somebody
else. Miss Balleta and you can go down and talk to the head chief of operations. So, we the town has been very lucky. We've had good operations, clean and neat with not a lot of folk. So, um I don't think there's many
worries and I'm hoping it's clean and neat. They come in and do their work and get it done. >> Thank you. >> So, any um suggestion in terms of language for a specific condition regarding
communication? I mean, it could even involve someone on the harbor commission. Um, there could be >> a recommendation to include uh information on the town website for the
update on this project and the time frame. And also, I know we mentioned October through December as kind of that time frame with, you know, less traffic on the waterways of course, but I had a question there also on what that could
mean for some pedestrian, watercraft, paddle boards, kayakers who might be out in that time of year, what they might need to know as well operating around the the crafts and and barges. So
>> don't >> from the harbor master perspective that's a large part of the communication that I like to do uh with all of the boers uh kayakers power boers um they
the dredge contractor is not allowed to interfere with regular navigation and uh my advice would be the same as last time just please stay away from the dredge barge don't uh end up in the dredge barge and um communication communication
from the harbor department. How about the condition being that within one month of the start of dredging that a communication plan be uh submitted to the planning board and the harbor
advisory committee um describing how a butterers and other users of the harbor would be notified and how a butters and
uses the harbor can contact um responsible parties uh to issue their questions and concerns. >> Maybe not to the planning board. Mark, would you have a >> Yes. Let me let me draft let me draft an
approval, you know, assuming the if everyone likes to draft, but I'll add the conditions uh related to what we've been discussing. uh some of the things that they presented as well uh like the time
period and that type of thing. And so you'll be able to review that and I'll include things such as you know requirements to have a contact person to have the website up to have the schedule posted
uh outreach to uh to voters and those peers and stuff some signage that kind of stuff. So, um, yeah, I'll include all that. >> Um, so that would mean we wouldn't vote on it today though, correct? >> That's correct.
>> Um, and we won't meet again until January. >> Does that mess up your timeline for permitting or Nate? >> I don't believe it should. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> Um, what does the board think about that suggestion? that that that makes sense to me. >> Good. Sounds good. I agree. >> I have I have Can I ask another question? I'm sorry. And I did I did I did ask this briefly, but um in the materials um the
the report that you provided Sarah, which was I'm sorry exactly what that was the harbor. >> Yeah. Yeah. And in there draft, >> right? Okay. There was um there was some discussion about the funding around this and again if this has already been
discussed and confirmed prior just tell me to stop. But um just in light of what's going on in the um the funding world right now and how we've had stops and starts on some of the other um projects that we have uh hopefully we'll
be doing in town. I'm just want to ask the Mass Works grant that you'll be applying for which is if I recall is it's in the millions of dollars. Is that right? That we're looking for
funding on this project. >> Correct. That's correct. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Okay. So I just I think I don't know if this can be a condition but would certainly like to be kept up to date on the progress how um that's moving along and if you anticipate any issues with
the funding then I assume that the funding will then have to be um done by the town. Is that right? And >> have to go to town meeting >> right >> town meeting.
>> Okay. And so if we're talking about starting this in October of 26, when do you expect to uh when do you hope to submit the application for funding? >> Brian, do you have those specifics?
>> Comes up. >> Sorry. Yeah, actually um I can get that answer from the state website. Uh dredging every year is done at the same time of year statewide. So
knowing that most communities are wrapping up their permitting uh not terribly long before uh usually spring before the dredging. that grant round opens up
um at the appropriate time for us to to apply to get the funding for this October. Don't have the hard date. Glad to get it and forward it on to you folks. Um so that you have that.
>> Yeah, it doesn't look like it's showing on the grant website yet. Um which is is kind of typical for a lot of grants. They don't a lot of times they don't have a specific date um that they're going to be be released um just a kind of general time period.
So um you know I think typically it's in within the next few months. >> Okay. So and I'm sorry I don't mean to press on this but I'm just curious. So if you look at that timeline and
uh the grant portal for applications opens sometime in first quarter of 2026. Um your expectation is that you get funding for the uh the entirety of the project. Is that the hope? >> No. Uh so the and actually the model is
based on our 201718 project. Uh the state will fund up to 50% of the project. >> Okay. >> Up to $5 million. So this project is estimated at around four. So the most we
could expect to get would be $2 million. >> Okay. And so I've just asked if anybody on the planning board, are you aware of of this as part of the um infrastructure funding that we have in our master plan?
Is this all I'm just curious is it is it part of >> Well, I I'm so I'm not sure like any other application that comes before us, >> right? It's our our part of our job to monitor the funding
or figure out how it's going to take place, right? >> Um it's it obviously living in the town, we want to know that it's a town project, but I'm not sure funding is something that is a criteria we can
consider in reaching our decision as to whether or not to grant the special Sure. Sarah Kraton just is that um a similar thing. Speaking of myself, um we granted
a special permit for the um cornerstone church um at the school as you exit 128 school street maybe what six years ago >> and there's still you know they're trying to get their funding together. So that it's it is indep it's my opinion
that it's independent um funding and similarly with the rotunda we made a um the planning board made a special permit for the rotunda >> assuming that it would get certain funding um it's been delayed so uh you
know there's really the buy on and they will go to the yeah >> fin for funding um and then town >> meeting that special property last for two I believe then, >> right? >> I don't think >> I'll start asking questions.
>> Good questions. It's just I'm not sure we can consider it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I and I will say that if funding were not to if it did not materialize for next October, I don't believe any of our permits would preclude us from being
able to do it the following uh October. Is that >> That's right. >> Correct, Jessica? That's correct. >> Thank you. >> Um, so how about a motion to continue uh this uh public this public hearing on
the special permit for dredging to January 12th >> at 6:30 6:30 >> at 6:30. >> Second. >> All in favor? Damn.
Five in favor. One of such. Great. Thank you very much. Um will and Mark you will >> terrific. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all. Have a good night. >> Thanks a bunch.
>> Jessica. >> Thanks Carl. Jessica, can you stop sharing your screen? Thanks. >> Okay, great. Thank you, Sue. um procedure just a procedural thing. Um if you are not going to be here on the 12th um we'll have Gordon watch the tape
so I think he'd be okay but we do need five members. >> I'm not going to be >> not going to be here on the 12th. Okay. So um but we'll make sure Gordon uh watches the tape. Um, and if somebody else is not going to be here on the 12th, just let us know and we'll make
those um to another date um that you could learn that um well which any Okay. Um so we we don't have a lot of other
things on our agenda but um that discussion haunts me with an item not previously anticipated um and that is associate members.
>> Yeah. Okay. Good. So, if you recall, we passed um a bylaw, a modification to um have associate members, and we just learned why it's important because you one person had to recuse. We have one person
out tonight. If for had to miss another meeting, if Peter, you know, you have to have a special permit requires five people to vote in the affirmative. So, it's not a if you don't vote, you don't get uh it's just constructively
approved, which with an ANR is the case, but um but the special permit and there are rules that you can only miss one in person, I believe, and watch it on tape. Um so, >> over what time period? A year?
>> No, no, for the that one here. >> That that one here. >> So, you could that hearing. So, for example, if you weren't here on the 12th >> and it was continued, >> it would have to be continued, you know, to Gordon if Gordon couldn't be here. >> So, uh, can you,
uh, please have Deb be and, um, post or maybe Tony put it in his newsletter to have people apply to be associate members. >> Is this something we have to do? >> I forget. I can't remember. I Well,
wait. I have my new >> What's your question? >> My new rules. >> Look it up. >> George approval. >> I think we decided on just the planning board. >> Have you had anybody actually apply or write you a letter and say they're
interested? >> A couple people say they're interested. >> I've heard that. >> Yeah. So the other thing to think about in that uh if we're recruiting people or you can recruit whoever you want of course but um think a little bit about
um people who might be uh interested in running um and really using it as a way for them to come to know would be it was section 12 Hey, something
>> what? >> 124 >> page numbers. >> Oh, 124. >> Okay. two associate members who shall be appointed jointly by the select board and the planning board.
>> Yeah. >> One for one year, one for two years, and then they um run for a period of two years. So they're staggered. >> So should we do something to >> to get somebody right away just in
>> Oh, just to encourage the board to join. >> Well, let's get some um people who want to do it first. I don't think I think it's, you know, it's cleaner if you have >> public know that we're proving ahead. >> Yeah. But um so we want to recruit, you know, let the public know that we're
open to anybody, but if um if people have somebody talk to them and see >> and do we have a job description because it's not exact are they expected to attend every meeting? I know you can only call them for a special permit. special permit was their primary
>> uh tonight was we would have had an associate or two here >> to say here are the facts understand how we would vote on this is kind of a weird one but nonetheless um and or for
let's say for example you know we were going to meet I don't expect we're going to meet the second meeting in December but that's a very busy time might have a lot of people away and let's say we had an ANR we would call them and to be the the to make a quorum for that
administrative. >> Got it. >> But they certainly be willing, you know, >> to weigh in on other things, but they're not a member of court. So I think um particularly to act on special permit and site plan review,
>> but it's good to have the associate members at all meetings if possible because they learn what's going on and although they maybe they can't vote on the ANR, they can't vote on something that's not a special permit
and u see how the board works, how applicants, how the process works, and be more informed should they choose to run for a open seat when there is one. >> Okay. So, let's um at least get it. Debbie has some way to put it in calling
volunteers. Let's try to put that on our agenda for >> uh Okay. I don't think we're going to um raise another matter not on the agenda. >> Uh sure.
I have another matter, too. >> Go ahead. So, my matter has to do with um a circumstance that was unanticipated when we did the uh zoning change
uh for ADUs, which is uh not allowing a large ADU in the D district, which turns out to be a problem because the justification was because we
allow two family homes in the dean district, but there are cases but we understand where a large ADU unattached to a house might be appropriate uh with a special permit and that's not
allowed currently. So, I wonder if we could do a very quick and easy amendment to bring to the town meeting to simply change the the N to an SP
for the large ADUs in the D district. Well, we did talk about this a couple weeks ago, if I recall, we sort of decided that we we I thought that the consensus was let's leave it alone for now. I know we
have a a case um >> since then. Yeah, since then the case >> what >> since then the case came before the ZBA, >> right? Um I think the other issue given so there
there's another piece of this that I think may also warrant a zoning change and may not be maybe beyond what we can do for but um what happens what's going to happen in the case before the ZBA now as I understand is they're going to build an
accessory building without an oven and therefore it is officially not a dwelling next to me. >> Um, and we have these that is a bad loophole it seems to me. >> Um,
so um because it anybody can do that anywhere. What's the point of I mean and we have those all over the place. They are all over the place and people have been but now that we have an ADU bylaw, >> it seems to me that we should change the
definition of a dwelling to preclude that. Um, oh no, I put the definition of uh somehow address that. Um, so that if uh
I'm not sure how we would do it exactly cuz but it is a pretty um >> Well, you want to give pe I mean in a way what Chris is suggesting gives people an incentive to do it through a special permit >> and kind of have a so there's a real
pathway for them to do something as opposed to finagling around. Yeah. >> You're suggesting it through a special permit. Yeah. Is that through special >> special for the CBA or for us? >> I think it >> whatever it is. Whatever it is for the
other districts. >> Yeah, it's CBA for the other districts. >> Um I don't have a strong feeling about it. >> I don't either. I hate to it's the first
case and I'm very sympathetic to them. I mean it's like the classic example of how an ADU should be used. Uh my only this is just general observation. We don't want to make a practice of as
soon as we see a problem as one of our zoning bylaws is applied to a particular situation, we, you know, we're reacting need to be reactively um legislating. Uh but in this case, I
think it might be appropriate >> and I completely agree with what you just said. However, I think because the ADU regs are so brand new that it's finding the loophole that we didn't
consider. I don't that it's reactive, but I still I think it's >> within reason that we want to get it right and maybe that this gives us um the incentive to review all of them again just to make sure that nothing
like nothing else like this could come up. But I think that case is a perfect example of of why >> perhaps the regulation is not >> needs a little tweaking. I mean that's going to happen, right?
>> Yeah. And they came in with an 1100 square foot ADU. >> Um they certainly could they had options which were >> connected. >> Yeah. >> Call it a duplex. >> But can from what I'm >> do a 900 foot Yeah. >> adu by right.
Um and I think they're opting to build an accessory building. >> Aren't they renovating an existing building or No. >> No. >> No. building. >> They're tearing down a garage, >> right? That's right. Yeah. >> Um,
so why don't we do this, Mark? Why don't you draft draft article that we bring up at the next meeting to discuss that? Um, I'd also like to see us if we can talk to Paul about how do we close the the oven loophole.
>> Well, is that a question for town council? >> You know, what what language do we need to change? how to to fix that problem >> and hopefully we'll get an answer not another question. >> Closing the doors.
>> I think the question for council was can you use an accessory unit as a living space or an accessory dwelling as living space with or without an an oven? An oven only constitutes makes it right
>> a truly accessory dwelling unit. But if you're living in the, you know, you buy a microwave and a refrigerator, you can get by, you know. So, >> but >> there are a lot of those. >> There's a lot of those, right? So, um,
you know, is is it still is someone living in an accessory building? So, and you know, maybe that doesn't have the same like safety inspections because it's not necessarily designed as a dwelling. So, so maybe
there's some other considerations um about that should be addressed too. >> So, I'll look into that. My question would be is if we have two D districts, we have a one
and a two. Um the two is large area I think is it the one that goes up with Lake Pleasant >> Pine Street also on our map and and like just in 100 ft or something. I mean it's a very odd district.
>> If you apply to one, should you apply to both? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> I think we tie this way. So the difference is in D1 the uh res the two family is allowed by right and in D2 it requires a CBA special permit
and neither of them allow the large ADU right now they're both no >> what would be the harm in including D2 >> yeah D1 and D2 >> D1 and D2 >> do the special permit for the larger
There might be an arch. Okay, great. Um, another uh matter just Um Mark had sent me a chance to look at this but um just to
give everybody the info here. Um this is the uh schedule for getting things to town meeting. Um, so, uh,
we don't have a lot of time to make, uh, tweaks to, um, to things. >> Um, but we have, you know, we have, we're in good shape on, I think, on our downtown. >> Um, >> how many more meetings on the downtown
before we have to get >> Well, we could vote probably. I I don't know. That's a question. I got the next is is the absolute last date that >> January 23 starts. >> No, February. >> Oh, okay. >> Is the absolute last date. It would be
>> give us more time to schedule public hearings. >> Yeah. >> Have a continued hearing if we need to uh uh if we were able to submit at least some of the articles, if not all of them on the 9th. But
>> yeah. >> Okay. So, So just sort of bear that in mind. Um okay. Um another thing that I didn't anticipate till I looked to my email today and that
is um it is the end of the year and I um the chair has asked to to write an annual report for the town report. Um, in the past there has been consternation among members that the chair wrote it.
So I just want to know if anybody would like to work with me on that or if that everybody's okay if I work on it with more. >> So consternation instead of gratitude. >> Yeah, basically >> I think we wholeheartedly support you
writing and >> it's not really that excited. I think we first might want to do a a comprehensive group review of the chair. >> Um, you know, live and learn, right?
>> Better to ask. I didn't expect a lot of push back. >> You never know. >> Um, >> okay. Uh >> any just since we have a little bit of time um any feedback or thoughts from the forum
>> I have yes um >> so I heard a lot of uh casual feedback >> um on the hotel in issue. >> Oh really? >> Yes. in. Okay. No hotel anywhere was
pretty much the summary of the comments I heard and definitely no hotel where Harbor's Point is. Um, >> yeah, >> just not the right place for it. >> Um,
but lots of folks seem to support the idea of a >> Okay, good. Okay. Um do you think um we should be prepared to
Richard's comment about what the maximum build out I mean we should know the answer to that question. I think >> well he said he's already working told me he had the numbers but I want to check I want to check them but I haven't had the time to do it. >> That's a big project.
>> It's not even a doable project. I agree >> it isn't. >> I think in some theoretical way it is. It's a dark throat kind of. Yeah, it's that's I mean communities do build out analysis and it's >> and the example I used is Deon Central
and u you never get to that number and and Union Street where >> they could do four much smaller units and kind of >> fit some parking in and make it work but >> it's they don't want to, >> right? And so it's the same that's the
issue with buildout analysis. It scares everyone often times. It was done years ago in the 70 80s. It was kind of a popular thing in 90s and then they changed the zoning and really cut down on density
uh somewhat unnecessarily particularly in village areas. >> Yeah. Um I was I should have asked you rather than Kathy because that was the answer that I wanted her to give but they were done in the 60 the 70s and the 80s and you and if you did a build out
for all the entire town you said oh this could be subdivided that could be subdivided and you know then you get a very large >> you can end up with a very large number. So for the CHS we did a something like that but it was
>> feasibility >> right >> which dropped the numbers tremendously. >> Right. Right. Um so I think it's a interesting um the other thought I had as we were as that
question came up about empty storefronts on the first floor. Um two things on that. one is it um I feel pretty strongly that we should keep stick with our no um single family homes. >> Yes.
>> The uh ADU by right question. Um the second thing is there's a really nice I think elegant way of uh on that and that is when uh when there's design review and site plan
review we could remind people or they could be reminded that if you put in three units with your commercial on the first floor and your commercial commercial is deemed to be no good >> right >> then you can go for a special permit for
your fourth unit on the first floor if you have maxed out your f your those above. >> So that's that >> that's a good point. >> Um >> and say it again Sarah. I'm not sure I understand. >> So if I'm build developing
cargo, >> right, >> you know, I'm going to put in my three units and and commercial on the first floor, >> right? If I do that, then I sort of reserve a potential for >> fourth unit for a fourth unit on that first floor by a special permit if I
decide if I've already built out my four on the top, then the commercial really has to stay on floor. So they they have a they have a nice way as a developer to uh have their cake and eat it too a
little bit as you know um by by >> but that's only that's only in the town. It's not in the past. >> Yeah. Speaking of those credits >> Yeah. Is there a time limit on how long
they have to try commercial on that street photo? >> No, there's I think we talked about that is what if somebody's tried to rent it and says I can't and >> um >> or if they someone leaves in three months and they then come in and say it doesn't work. >> Yeah, I think that's
>> they can try. Yeah, >> they can try. >> It's the point was made I don't know if this applies to this or not, but uh by somebody who said if the usage changes >> Yeah. What happens then if it goes from commercial to residential, residential to commercial by state law? What is
that? >> Yeah, that's what >> Yeah. Yeah. That is such >> no longer go back. >> It's not our zoning anywhere, >> right? >> I don't know where he's getting that from. >> I think he said it was state law. I did remember I I got a I emailed
>> Well, I think he was thinking that single family is prohibited. So I can't take his single family and do something to it and then bring it back to a single family that he can't do. But he has multiple other options properties here
to turn them into multifamilies to keep a small storefront. I mean >> so >> yeah. Um the other thing that I did and I haven't had a chance but maybe um wants to work with me on this. Um
I was I was driving down I was told Peter I was driving I think down street seeing the or mine and to see the sing the homes single not all single family but close to the street in a sort of
historic >> of homes. And then I want to look at pictures from downtown Manchester. And I don't think we have um I think we have historically had commercial. >> Um you know, with some homes in between,
but we're not like um some of the downtowns where it really is just all homes along the downtown. Our downtown historically has had >> commercial in the downtown. Um, so, uh,
I think that's probably anyway. So, >> and more commercial actually out in the residential neighborhoods >> and what >> more commercial out in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we used to have a little store across the street from us.
>> You know, the other thing we haven't talked about is demolition delay, which is >> Say again. >> Demolition delay. >> Ah, >> it's got to be the historic commission, right? That's last time we talked about it. They were going to work on it. And have they done? >> Uh I've spoken with Rosemary
numerous occasions and probably we're really not looking for this year but probably for one more year. Um yeah till we get through some of these the downtown
we need to do. >> So what do we have left to do as far as public here? Aren't we are we done with public hearings for the downtown zoning or >> No, we have to have one >> more. We have four. >> Oh, okay. And that's was that part of that schedule?
>> Yeah. So, um so what >> the process is we finalize our draft. We vote to send it to the select board to be placed on the warrant. They quote send it back.
They vote to place it on the warrant. We then uh called our public hearings and voted recommendation for town meeting. Uh and then at town meeting u the community votes on it.
>> Okay. So I see then March 20 what does that say? >> 23 for the public hearing. >> Okay. >> Yeah that's >> we can have it sooner. >> And what format will that be? Will that be >> that will be more like a actual hearing will be posted in the newspaper
uh a presentation and >> in this room similar to what we did last week >> yeah basically but it will have a more formal yeah format >> in the meantime are you going to put a video up on the website from that >> video is up
>> it is Tiffany >> there's one typo that after Peter's eagle eyes >> what >> uh got I had switched the setbacks from and it had side in there twice or something. >> One's okay. One shows that we're human.
>> One type show. >> The thing that the two of you did, Sarah and Sue, of switching off, I think just made it feel so different. >> It just made it seem much more informal. >> Yeah. >> And I I I thought it worked really well.
>> You did a great job. Although my husband told me I repeated something. >> Oh. >> Oh my gosh. >> My husband's great. >> Actually, he is a really good judge. >> Well, but you know what? >> For people to really get stuff sometimes. He's not a marketing guy.
Your guy, right? So, sometimes you have to say things a couple times. >> So, Mark, will that will will Tiffany promote that? That's there. Will that be in some type of communitywide? >> You mean the the video? Yeah. What we
did? >> I think we want to drive as much traffic as we can to that, right? >> Yeah. I mean, there'll be more written um about >> downtowning and more people will. But >> how about the one pager or two pager?
>> Yeah, >> that's up there. The only thing I haven't put up is the schedule yet, but we'll put that up and and then um the slides when you you've had a couple little spelling check. >> We want to um put the slides up without
I think we decided we weren't going to put the slides up without video. >> Yeah, the video is up. >> Well, there we go. >> We have the slides. >> Oh, yeah. They're on the video, >> right? Exactly. >> I haven't looked at the video, but >> I'm sure it's fine. >> Sure. It's fine. >> We're not professional. had any I had
>> yeah a couple others >> yeah I wanted to pass along there were two ideas that um one one from actually from Gary and one from John Harden um and there was and I thought there was some merit in
the idea about um allowing an increase in the number of units not a big increase but so from 15 to 16 or four to five whatever um as an incentive to more affordable units and I thought
that was kind of an interesting idea more a little bit of a carrot than a so why don't you pass that along and then the other thing is um John Harden actually without any prompting from me
brought up the idea of going of the a little the little blue island on Beach Street uh after Harbor's Edge and it you know the addition of the Town Center District with the old Salad Master thing in Dusties.
>> Wow. >> Yeah, >> that's the only time we've heard that right from him. >> I don't know. >> Yeah, we did get the uh the owner of the >> Yeah. house. >> Yeah. >> Take his out. >> Yeah. But I wanted to point out to him
that if he does that, he can't do commercials there. So he's stuck with the single family house. >> Ah, that's a good thing to point out >> because it's a very odd place for >> I think currently he's own general district. Not not his own general
district. He's not in the district. >> Oh >> yeah. And so um he wanted to stay in the general district. >> Yeah. be one little parcel of the general dot. >> Well, I I think actually it's
park is in the general district, too. >> So, there'd be two persons. >> Okay. I'm going to put at the end before I leave this room a um document into the January 12th meeting.
It's called things to discuss on town zoning. Sort of like the the loose ends. Okay. And so, uh, as you approach January 12th, >> you can edit and add more things into that document. >> Oh, great. >> So that we can talk about. So, um,
>> okay. >> That's where where is it going to be? >> It's going to be in the January 12th meeting >> folder. Can I say it was great how we collaboratively worked on those documents. >> Having it in one place where you can make comments and keep them all there
and everybody can see everybody else's comments. I thought that was really great. We're not supposed to do that. >> Well, then never mind. It wasn't. I didn't >> Well, I mean I think that the issue is those were typo types things. The the but they were not we what we were not
doing any um substantive changes. >> So what you cannot do I would argue is substantive arguing on uh the draft of the zoning and saying I want two parking spaces and she wants one parking space. That's the deliberative piece
>> as opposed to the typos >> which we if Sarah sends something out, >> you can reply just to Sarah >> with your comments and she just like when I send something to all of you, you send back your comments. I'll edit them
as I, you know, see fit if it makes sense or whatever and and then it'll be presented to the the board. So you can do that but you can't put a document up and then or send it around and everyone comments on it because that becomes
deliberative. >> Well let me ask you a question. I want to understand the line of deliberate. >> So if in fact um rather than advocating for a particular thing can you ask a
question? So >> of Mark >> of Mark or or put a question on the document that's in SharePoint. So for example, I'll give you a specific example. So on what is it? Uh table of
allowed uses. So number seven, mixeduse first floor residential town center. It's with a planning board special permit and in the harbor's edge. No. So is an acceptable
non-deliverative comment. Do we want to do we want to keep the no? >> It's deliberative. >> Yeah, >> it's deliberative. >> Yeah. I mean, this is the place to ask the question or send if you're unsure of why it was put in
>> or something or it's something a little more technical and you want an explanation, send send a question to me. So, I have one other request on the January 12th meeting. Can we finally decide to put a new senior housing?
>> Right. >> So, I have the draft. I thought it was in the folder, but it wasn't. So, >> you can pass those around. At least everyone can take it home.
>> Okay. >> Great. or I can just kind of run through it so you understand it's a it is on the agenda to the studs. So um but I set this up
so that is u expandable. Um, so what we did is we removed the previous definitions and Chris had looked up uh updated definitions.
So we have updated definitions which uh this entire thing has been sent to council but she didn't get comments back for tonight um on this. she did do the downtown bylaw.
Uh so hopefully we'll get those will be all correct. Now what we did is um we just did senior independent housing which would be a planning board special permit. We did specific uh
um requirements for senior uh independent housing which is under 5.3. But first we did a purpose for senior housing and applicability section. Then we did this
definition we have living and what the requirements would be for density and for other things that aren't specifically covered in let's say our site plan review or special permit requirements. So we tried to keep it
very focused to what would be required if you wanted to build you know straight 55 and older housing. Um then we have section on accessory uses local preferences and special permits
procedures. So the way this is set up that if we wanted to do another section here for let's say assisted living we would add another line to this use chart and I would add insert after 5.3 a new
5.4 four and the others would get renumbered or um did I just say assisted living and then I'd have like a density requirement if you wanted to parking requirement
other things more specific to assisted living. So assisted living wouldn't have one parking space for every unit because most people aren't going to be driving. So it but there would be staff. So you'd have that person, you know, parking for
one one space per person on every shift or something like that, right? And then a few guest, you know, one guest spot for five or 10, you know, rooms, that kind of thing. So, uh, it would have a different set of requirements, but the
rest of the bylaw wouldn't have to change. So, if you wanted to add another type, you would write specific things. So that's how I set it up. >> Well, Chris's help. >> Okay. So if Let me be sure I understand.
So the intention, your intention is to make um what's requested at town meeting be the simplest and most easily understood of the senior housing options. >> That's correct. >> So it's going to focus solely on the
independent living. Well, that's what we did first. There still is some time to add another section. >> Okay. >> Living is the next thing and plug that in. But I wanted to get this to board to talk
about Tai. >> Can I ask a question for those of you who have been doing this for a while? Has has anyone ever come before the town asking to build one of these facilities or housing converting housing to it or
something? >> No, because you're not allowed to use this on land. But do you think that that's is a chicken and egg that it's a um that no one's asked because >> well
has got a senior by law they have three senior house projects one is 40 >> they have more land than yeah they have and they're also require 20 acres Well, the only way we'll find out, I suppose, is to do it,
>> right? >> I mean, the comment about zoning being a platform for things is >> I can guarantee you >> accurate. >> We're not going to get anything built until we change the zoning. Then we might get something. So we are gonna let's I I think there
are two things we need to work through this on January 12. So big long meeting on you know the special permit for the dread I think pretty quick and then the bug >> and finalizing that >> and then um we're going to talk through issues around downtown to just figure
out let's do this, let's do that, let's do this and then we're going to spend some time on this. Um, then I think the next thing to do after that is to go to the second meeting in January of the sled board and bring them up to speed on
where we are on this full set of things that we've been talking about >> because we're now we're going to have the ADU potential bylaw um in um >> senior >> downtown zoning and potential senior
housing because they need to there's no sense us killing ourselves to get senior housing to the starting line essentially if their warrant is ma massive. And I do think it's while we understand that putting it on the warrant and then
passing over it >> is fine, there's a perception we've learned >> that it's not ready. We're not, you know, all of these things. >> So I think we're better off to decide in advance with the select board. So, let's
try on that. Let's you and I were going to work we'll work on a schedule a little bit more refined and I think we need to go like been there in a while like you know just one or two of us. So, >> and if we're going to do senior housing, you have to for >> we have to for have a forum. So, we need
to put that on the list and it probably wouldn't hurt a forum on it anyway. >> Yep. >> Um so, let's put that on on the list. Um, okay. The other last thing on that of unanticipated things that um I'm
hoping maybe Sue and Mark would uh look at and that is the um there was an email from Robin about the downtown zoning and the ants >> and she's >> from whom?
>> Uh Robin is town council. Oh, >> okay. Um I think uh uh and she has a very challenging way of response in that she asks questions, right? >> Instead of saying that you change
>> next to it, which is what we want her to do. >> Yeah. And often times they're comments really hardly comments, >> right? like these >> that most of them are >> most of them are like did you intend to not have >> single family homes and you intend this
but if you could maybe sit down together I don't know if you have time but if not or so many >> and just go through them and let's put a bow on that so that we um can so legal
comic junior's legal uh >> we will get together and mark >> discuss that. >> Yeah, let's do that. And um >> note. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Everybody is going to read the senior housing and can ask questions back to
Mark >> only. >> I'll put that. Can you put this right in the January 12th folder with line numbers and draft watermark, please? >> Um I have a question for Chris on this. >> What is this? what you would like to
see. >> That's what's written here. >> This is better than nothing >> and and it's it's fine. >> Okay. >> Um it's not going it's not perfect. I mean,
you know, I'd love to see a system living in there. That's really where the demand is, I think. But we're going to start somewhere. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Any other business? I was gonna ask Nate to
get a new clock, but >> I know I thought Wait, >> voting. >> Oh, wow. Yeah, it's pretty. It's I thought Wow. >> Getting faster and faster. >> Um Oh, we have minutes for um November
22nd. If you haven't had a chance to look at them, maybe 24. Sorry. No, >> wasn't there. No, they can't email. >> Yeah, get the folder. >> Next time,
>> right? Can we make sure that the minutes get in the folder? That's where they go to. >> Um, we also probably need to do minutes for the small working groups. Marc was there. She lost them. >> What? >> Yeah, Kendall was back there.
>> She wasn't at all of them. >> Um, okay. Great. I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. Second. >> Any discussion? I Great.