It's 6:30. >> Call the uh um meeting of the Manchester by the Sea Sled to order. Um >> Jeff, >> yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> Yes. And is here. >> John, yes.
>> And I will call the finance committee meeting to order. Andy, Peter, Gar, Mory, and myself, Sarah. Thanks for that. Um This meeting is being recorded in case
anybody hasn't figured that out yet. Um, are there any public comments on non-aggenda items? >> Don't see that. Um, at this point we should be starting the
joint meeting. Um, John Craft, are you on Zoom? >> No, I saw John's iPad. >> I'm here. Yeah. >> Okay, great. Thank you with us remotely. Great. really does say it's a presentation. So
I guess we should wait for the presenters. >> Yes. >> Last minute edits. >> I'm I'm sure. >> Well, she already sent that though. >> Coffee machine was one with a down machine, right? >> Oh, maybe they making coffee. She did
say she'd provide copies. That would be nice. Updated copies. >> Very nice. >> And there a lot of pages in this thing. >> There are 78. >> That is Yeah, I know. >> 776. I >> was not happy.
>> I was 76. Yeah. I was trying to print the current page and apparently I printed the current workbook. >> Oh dear. >> Oh dear. to consensus. But
>> I'll send the town my charge for blue toner. stack. >> Oh, goody. for you. Is this for you? >> Oh, thank you. Yes, I'll take an update. This is >> down there. Thanks to the copier.
>> Put page numbers in. I was very pleased. >> Oh, your statement was >> Oh, I didn't see what came out. Is that >> Yeah, what we got last week? Okay, we've started the meeting.
We're waiting for enlightenment. is here remotely. Okay. What? Could you give us a key to the U little triangles of various colors? >> Oh, the little red triangles. Those are
my notes. >> Little red ones in there. Dark ones. >> Red ones and green. >> Microsoft. So the you would see that if you had the Excel spread feed open and you hovered over that with your mouth, a note would pop up explaining what that is. >> Yep. And then the green ones are just
formatting. Um it's trying to grab the number like the FY26 and 27 number. Um that's why the green shows up. All right, just real quick, I just wanted to start um just wanted to start with a little bit
of kind of summary information uh of the challenge that we've been facing with I think you know in this initial draft. Um if you look at we're we start by looking at what our revenues are going to look
like for the upcoming fiscal year. Uh if we compare our general fund revenues and our free cash revenues, we for me I like to split those into two different buckets, but you're going to use those revenues for different expenditures.
>> Your general fund revenues are going to be for operational uses. They're generated in the same fiscal year as the budget that we're appropriating funds for and generally uh is generated from local receipts, state aid, and your tax
base. If you look at FY26 compared to uh FY27, we had 38.4 4 million in general fund revenue to 39.3 in FY27.
So that's about an increase of $829,000. Free cash, the other bucket of revenues, uh it's a one-time, you usually want to use free cash for one-time expenditures, capital items. Um, you can use it to
build up reserves. You can, um, use it to pay down, uh, debt if you wanted to, but you generally not going to use your free cash revenue for, um, your operating expenses.
That's because um, it's actually generated from >> a previous fiscal year. So the fiscal year that we are in right now at the end of this year when we reconcile all of
our numbers the amount of funds that we bring in over our estimated revenues combined with the amount of funds that we don't spend you know under our appropriated amount get combined certified and then are available for use in a future fiscal year. It's actually
there's about a one fiscal year gap. Um, so because that number fluctuate and then you can't really depend on it. You use it for one-time purchases. So we like to look at that for capital needs. Uh, you'll see here compared to last
year, we have a reduction in pre-cash revenues of about $588,000. >> Why is that? Uh we've been trying to reduce the amount of free cash as a town I believe
uh to be a little bit more tight on our estimated revenues, a little bit tight on our expenditures. So it adds that effect >> and we had excess re we had excess reserves which we've been spending down. I just thought that if anybody else ever
watches this, it might be interesting. >> Tony, >> that's very helpful to me because I didn't understand that before you explained it. So, thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you. >> Um, looking at this is now just a closeup on
our general fund revenues of the upcoming of this fiscal year 27 broken down into different categories. available levy, local receipts, state aid, and local taxes. And on the right,
these are the general fund challenges that we've that we're facing this year. So, our total without the use of available levy is 39.3 million. Uh, if we >> I don't see that up there.
What's going on? >> Um Jody, if you stand up, um the where it says Manchester by >> Nope. Down to the right.
>> Well, that go I got it. >> Sorry. Manchester >> up. Right up here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Up there. >> And now >> didn't do it. >> Yes. It made it much smaller. So we can see the whole screen.
>> That's the last time you asked for my house. >> Ever do a bad job? Well, >> set us up very well. >> So our our challenges this year are that our total our total budget general fund
budget requests amount to 40,81,628,000. But our total available to us uh without the use of the levy is 39.3 and even with the use of the excess levy is 39.5. So using uh even using the available
levy we still have about $500,000 in requests that exceed our available funds. Does that include the the full school budget? >> Yes. >> Okay, >> it does.
Um, and this is free cash. This is just to show you a little bit of a of our free cash situation. Our free cash revenue on the left, $2.6 million. Uh from that we earmark or set aside
about 2.4 million to reserves. That 2.4 million combines with what we have in stabilization to equal about 8% of our total budget to have in our reserve account. That leaves us $225,000
of free cash to use in the g in the upcoming year. C can I ask a clarifying question? Is it >> total budget or operating budget? Our target is supposed to be 8% of the operating budget >> including the town and the schools. >> Whatever the
>> So you're not capital. >> Yeah, I backed up the capital. >> Correct. Um however, we received $31.5 million in requests for capital. Um now a significant amount of that we
will have to borrow and ask for an override. So if we reduce the the capital requests that we reviewed and deferred to a uh an override question, it comes down to 3.3 million.
>> Um is this an override or a capital exclusion? >> It's a debt exclusion. >> Debt exclusion. >> Exclusion. Right. Right. Right. There's a few there's quite a few projects in there and we'll get through we'll we'll talk through that tonight but this is kind of a bigger picture >> but but so far we're not talking about
an operational override. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Uh this is just on the capital side. So, um if you if we were to uh reduce the amount that's available to us, um you
know, if you take those requests and move them to borrowing or debt exclusions, you still have a total request of 3.3 million. And then some of those would be funded with alternative funding sources like the enterprise account, retained earnings, um you know,
or the waterway funds. Uh but still at the end of the day you have $2.2 million uh with only $225,000 available. >> When you go to a debt exclusion and you you drop it down dramatically, nevertheless, there's debt service
associated with that. Now, does that get put back into your operating budget or is that assumed to be expense in future years? >> It would be put into our operating budget. >> All right. So the operating budget is not static. As soon as you do that, whatever you're going to do, there's a debt. >> No. service.
>> Well, if we if we do a debt exclusion, it'll be added revenue coming into the general fund and then paying that debt service out of the general. >> Well, we don't incur the debt until we've completed the project. >> All right. So, it's we don't worry about
this year because it's not that's that's my question. All right. So, that the current budget is unaffected by whatever decisions are made. >> Depends on how quick the project is. >> We know how things work. So that's just I just want to kind of
start the meeting off by explaining some of the challenges that Andrea and I have faced but after receiving a lot of the requests. So, we can go into the spreadsheet filter. The biggest cost
drivers in our operational account this year uh would be the school budget which at a tenative their tenative budget their initial draft is about an 8% increase which in dollars Andrea is
1 right >> 1.3 million. >> Um another significant factor in our operating uh fund operating expenses is health insurance which currently we've been advised by
our provider to estimate a 20% increase um and with in dollars do you know that oper >> 360,000 >> it was in the 300
about 360 Um so school health insurance and then another uh factor that we're facing is uh our waste disposal and collection. Um we're estimating a
significant increase from the disposal costs of recycling materials and the collection cost that now we've enjoyed a very healthy contract for the last five years. Uh however uh we expected even
without uh Republic having gone through a union strikes we expected those numbers to increase significantly. uh add on the union contract uh negotiations that they went through. We haven't received numbers from them yet, but we're expecting a significant bonus.
Additionally, uh Republic has indicated to us that they would entertain uh an extension or a new contract with us. Um, but manual collection, meaning someone
is on the truck, actually getting out, picking up the bag, and putting it in the truck. Uh, they would really only entertain that for another year. They would, if we signed a long-term, a five-year contract with them, we would have to convert to automatic collection,
which is uniform barrels. truck comes by and picks up the barrel and dumps it into the truck on its own. Uh they would only allow us to keep manual collection for another year. So we're faced with that type of approach. We could go out
to bid, we could see quotes from other companies. Uh we're going through that process now. Um but most likely any company we talk to is going to be looking for automat automated collection. >> So the cost of the barrels with the you
know the town with the you know the homeowner to buy the barrel >> depending on the format we want to go forward with. Uh there are grants available to purchase barrels. Uh, however, DP
uh would only pay for trash barrels if they are the 35gallon size. They won't pay for a 60gallon size barrel. Um, and they'll pay for the recycling barrels of any size as long as it's made from
recyclable materials. So, it is possible that the cost of the barrels could be uh fully funded if we follow those criteria. 60 gallon >> can and an aging population.
>> But a 35gallon barrel is not very big. >> They have good wheels. >> They do. >> The biggest challenge with with waste is that it's we don't have an enterprise account. So it's baked into our general. So, as that contract drives up, it adds
a demand on our larger expenses. So, um there are a couple things that we could think about uh doing differently uh that would help move the account forward and save money. Um an enterprise account is an option. It's not included in this
proposed budget because I think it that takes a lot more discussion. Uh the the reason an enterprise account should be or a pro of going to an enterprise account is that you now have a fee structure that you
can use to incentivize residents to compost or recite or you know you less tonnage in the waist would produce savings for the town long term. uh without an enterprise you really don't have that
incentive mechanism that you could institute to try to capture those savings. >> Why is that true though? Because today people pay by the bag. >> Do the bags go away collection? >> That's that I think that they would
>> go away. But I mean, >> that's the whole the whole driving force from the industry is that they don't want to have >> it's all time. So they don't want to get out of the truck to have to pick up a bag. It's all about being able to come in and grab.
>> But the the family members I have that do are in towns with automated collection, they still have to pay a fee per barrel every year. So they may not pay for the barrel, but instead of paying for an orange bag, they pay a fee per barrel. So big families might want
two and they pay extra for that. So there's still an incentive to >> but that is so that's an enterprise though. >> Well that's why I'm asking why does it have to be an enterprise if we don't I'm hearing over here that it doesn't have to be because today we have the bags
>> and it's not an enterprise account. So I'm not understanding why we >> because you wouldn't have as a resident if it wasn't an enterprise account. It would just be paid for through taxes. So you couldn't >> No, it's paid for with We just collect the fees. Fees, >> right? But the bags would go away with
automated collection. >> You have other fees. >> You have other fees. Yeah. >> I mean, just as an example, we have an enterprise fund for water and sewer and we monkeyed around with the water rates. And frankly, it didn't change consumption is much at all. So I mean I
think enterprise fund or non it you know unless the rates go really crazy the format of how you charge that is kind of I think sort of irrelevant unless there's some tax implications here but >> that's what I mean you can't you can't
for like to try to capture uh based on how much you use if you do it by the amount of waste you produce uh you can do it through the bags which is outside of yeah >> your tax base and that's a self you know that's a way to incentivize but without
the bags and we're only collecting >> we can't adjust your taxes based on how much trash you produce so that's where the enterprise comes in >> you can charge a fee you can charge a fee >> it goes into the general fund it doesn't have to go into an enterprise fund >> right it's per barrel it's not weighted to your point
>> and that way that way if you have excess revenue from the fees you collect it goes into the general fund rather than not being being able only to be used for trash pickup, >> right? >> That's the downside of enterprise funds is it restricts your use of any excess earnings.
>> Um, >> is that fees per barrel picked up or just having a barrel? >> Institute a fee. You could institute a fee for the extra barrel. Let's say everybody gets one barrel. If you want a second one, you have to pay for that.
And it could go in through the general fund. If you had if you had an enterprise account and someone had two barrels, they could be a be charged a higher fee for that service compared to
someone who has one. So you have to pay for the second barrel plus you pay a higher rate. >> So that should be done with without an enterprise fund. >> Right. And I I think it's important, we don't have to beat it to death tonight, but one of the reasons why it's important is you have to remember there are those of us who do not use town
trash, okay? Because we have private trash pickup per our special permits for our multif family housing, right? Or restaurants or whatever. So there has to be some type of fee for the people who have barrels. Otherwise, you're you're
you know taxing people who can't take advantage of the service. >> Yeah. But you already are being paying taxes. You're being paid taxes if you're having recycling picked up privately. >> Yes. But not the trash. So, we get the recycling, but trash. >> Trash is a big deal right now. It really
is. >> The the the another side of it is there are people who actually do compost now heavily and don't put out a barrel every day. Every week. >> Exactly. >> So, >> right. that that's an anti
the wrong incentive because if I have a barrel and I don't have to sort my garbage, I'm just going to put it in the barrel. And I and I think the other thing you have to remember is that local taxes are deducted deductible on federal returns again and fees are not.
So the more you add on fees, the the greater adverse impact it has on anybody who's >> concern. >> Yeah. Well, I'm not proposing uh you know, moving to an enterprise account at this
moment. Uh but there's different the the I bring it up because it's one of those things that as the cost of waste disposal, recycling disposal goes up and sits within the general fund, it adds a
burden to the remaining amount of general fund that we have for all our other needs. uh an enterprise would be able to shift some of those funds. You'd collect some of the costs through a fee structure. You could supplement
some of that with the general fund, too. Um it would help reduce the burden that we have in the general fund. It's still a cost. It would be an increased cost to the residents, but it's an alternative thing that we can explore further. But I
do think that no matter whether it's an enterprise or not, uh we're going to be forced to go to uniform barrels in the next years. >> Have we have we looked for alternate suppliers? Black Earth had expressed an interest in picking up trash and and
recycling. >> Uh I I spoke with Black Earth. Um, quite frankly, they don't I don't think they have the have a uh sense of what it would take to do that type of collection
uh and then uh deliver it to the MURF or wheelbraider. >> Um, but I asked them to put together a business plan that we could evaluate. >> Um, and I think they're they may be working on that. uh >> they're a bigger concern than than is
apparent because they go down into Rhode Island up into New Hampshire. >> And so I asked them to put together a proposal that we could evaluate. What we did for this budget >> was we spoke with the Northeast regional
director under uh at >> D >> who had a wide range of rates that municipalities in this area are paying for uh for hauling for collection. Um, we also talked to a couple neighboring
or Chuck spoke with a few neighboring communities um to get some sense of what those uh what that increase might look like. Um, and when we get to the DPW, you see that we have a significant
increase in their in their budget um because of those added costs. You know, I think that what's important right now is for you to, you know, do the competitive bid, do whatever you can to find us the most economical approach
and then the mechanics of whether it's enterprise or not enterprise. You know, I think fin will help us figure that out, but >> I'm just more worried about that. >> And backing off a little bit further, we're right now not worrying about contracts so much. I think it's very wise to put in some more money just in
case things don't go the way one might hope. And I correct the contract with wheel of braider is separate from >> yes >> the disposal and longer term >> it is separate I don't know the how long the term is
>> a longterm deal but that could be >> right >> but the uh >> like for 40 years or something like that >> oh I don't know about that long >> that's why the the costs are the increased costs are expected in the
hauling and in the recycling not really in >> disposal >> disposal of waste. So one question just for Andrea the do the bags cover the disposal cost or are we running a deficit on that
>> and like roughly what is it like the 20% >> the disposal piece >> disposal >> because we get 300 odd thousand from bags right >> and the disposal is already >> on tonight we got a lot to talk about
tonight I'm not sure we want to spend Yes, the whole night's conversation until this one >> just spoke. >> Can I ask our town administrator tell us there are three big areas where we've got large
increases school health insurance and waste disposal. But I never did get the number for waste disposal. Can you tell me what the increase that we have in our proposed budget for waste disposal is? Oh, >> thank you. All right. Can we move on to a different
subject and kind of go through >> whatever? You know, you had another Do you have more slides in your overview, Tony? No, I just wanted to um you know initiate the the discussion with kind of looking at the bigger picture of the
challenges that we're facing and talk about some of those specifically in the school and trash and um and then we can get into the slideshow that's >> oh just if we're just additional
highlevel considerations um before we get into the details because what one of the things I did when I was looking at the budget was try to think about the conversations we've been having over the past year. You know, what would we do differently? Um
and I think one of the things I'm concerned about is trying to um reduce the tax burden that we have to subsidize optional services. So, we have services we
provide to residents. They are optional, but we don't ask them to pay a fee at all. Um, examples of that are the notary service. We subsidize the electric charging out here. Um, those are just two examples that came to my mind. I
don't think we need to do that anymore. And I I know I'm probably talking pennies, but at this point, I I think we need to look at the nickels and dimes. You know, we shouldn't be subsidizing optional services. And I'd like us to get out of that. Personally, I'd like us to get out of that business as much as
possible. >> My nephew was here. He's from Pennsylvania. And he said that what we're charging at those charging stations is ridiculously low. >> It I I have an electric car, but it's free for two hours. I'm I'm just asking to get rid of the free.
>> He's saying even the hourly is that two cents? >> It's a dollar an hour. A dollar. I don't know what it was. He said it could be five times that. But I'm just saying we are subsidizing certain things with tax dollars and I think we need to stop. That was one item. Um and then there are
some services that we have here where the select board has made some decisions over the past couple of years to do things a little differently and because the numbers are spread on like four different slides or something, it's hard to tell if the decisions we made were
good decisions or not. One example is, you know, we talk a lot about parking. So now we implemented the safety sticks. I would like on one slide, okay, parking enforcement officers, the the safety um the parking sticks, the revenue we
collect, the the you know, all on one slide, okay, just to see are these things working or not. And then you assess the trends over time because the trending can tell you if you're headed in a bad direction and might need to to
change. So parking was one example. Um the inspections, you know, where we've increased the fees. Okay. What was the result? It's it's hard for it's hard to tell. Um and the other thing was, you know, the beach parking and the passes.
Every year people ask about that. I can't tell from these numbers. I I think on one of the slides it was a significant dip in revenue one year and I'm like did we do something to cause a loss of revenue? I don't know. I'd love the numbers for that service on one
slide. So like kind of an activity based cost view even though we can't you know budget using activity based costing if we could at least have a view um of those services that take in revenue other than tax dollars we can see if
we've made good decisions or not. Just want to u remind people parking sticks weren't meant to generate revenue generator right >> it was meant to turn over parking which I think we decided and it's working now we got it >> it is but you also have to whenever you do something you should always look at
the cost implication because we haven't reduced the number of parking enforcement officers we we've asked them to >> but we're expanding >> that's right but I'm just saying it's always good to validate the decisions that we made were they good decisions or not that's all And I just want to remind
you that as far as >> beach parking that's all weather related a couple years ago then >> well it was a few years ago we also um you know changed the whole model and I I never feel like I I didn't feel like we
got a good overview of the decision that we made to not charge for beach parking you know just give every resident a sticker. Did we lose res revenue? Did we gain revenue? We we just never looked at it in its holistic form. And I just think we that's a business practice. We
should do that. >> I think we can we can >> Yeah, that was also operating cost. >> There was there was an efficiency in the town clerk's office. That's why we did that. But if you told me that they gained, you know, $10,000 worth of
efficiency over two months and we lost $30,000 of revenue, I'd be upset with that. The numbers could be reversed. They could be totally different. I have no idea because we never looked at >> we're paying a lot more for the outsourcing than we ever would have paid for the hours in the town clerk's
office. >> That's what I that I'm concerned we made a decision for efficiency in the town clerk's office and did not look at the whole did not look at the whole and I we should do that. Okay. And I just think it's a good business practice to do
that. Um >> I think we can we can probably it should be pretty simple that stuff together. I I'll I'll uh regroup with you Kathy and find out you know maybe like which >> which departments or areas we want to
focus on first and then we can have a more in-depth conversation once you >> I have a list I'll send it to you but I brought it up because others may have ideas of things that you know decisions that were made before I was on the board you know I haven't been on the board forever maybe there were things we also
did decided we didn't look at the impact >> um financially and I just we're at the point where we got to do that. >> Tony, maybe an idea is in the past the fincom has has done some benchmarking of different things, but it tends to be
more on like a request from the board of selectmen or something like for example a number of years ago we did a pretty deep dive on the fire department, you know, looking at all sorts of different fees. But I'm wondering going up a bit, do you folks or have you got a list of
benchmarking we've done? And it might be appropriate at some point just to create a spreadsheet as a checklist like when was the last time the town did some benchmarking on trash fees and harbor fees and inspection gas meter fees and
stuff like that. And and that way when you know we start looking at revenue we can go across the board and say you know we haven't actually looked at this fee structure for 10 years. call up all our neighboring towns and say, "What do you guys charge for gas meter inspection?" Hey, low, you know.
>> Yeah, we You're absolutely right. The fees, but it was kind of like, what can we get as opposed to doing a real benchmark? >> Where are we relative to our neighbors? >> Absolutely. Makes total sense. >> So, just writing that down. I think that that
is an excellent suggestion and I think the finance committee would be >> extremely helpful in us developing some of that out >> dialect more because said that before
>> that's always something off >> you know when we're not >> focused on how many yeah when when we have the time to to go through that it's a good exercise to go And I think that I think especially when you layer in the
fee structure there, if there are recommendations that come out of that exercise, >> um the fee struct the fee schedule is voted on by the select board. So going through that with the finance committee and coming up with a recommendation that's
then culated to the select board, I think makes a lot of sense as far as process. Yep. and it almost needs to be a requirement of department heads. Um, the ZBA increased its fees a few years ago to
$1,000 an application and none of the other land use boards followed in that suit and we received zero complaints. >> Yeah, that's a lot of my notes. Did >> we increase the fees? What was it? That's like half the notes I
Can I raise a concern about this budget book? >> Yes. >> Um I'm concerned that the full school budget is not included. I'm I'm concerned that this is understating um what the potential costs are for this
year. And I believe if you include the additional 525 for the school that's not included that you're you're getting towards the need for a general override. And I and I think that's important to have in the budget book
from day one um with the hope that it can be whittleled away at. But I but I just think for transparency to the taxpayers, we need to have that full number in there because the school it was >> it's not >> a little bit in there.
>> It's not in the far right column. It's a separate column. Tony added his. So what we So we did it a little bit different this year is that we're showing what was requested and how that's different from the
previous fiscal year and then we're showing what the town administrative budget is recommending and how that's different from the previous fiscal year and how that compares to the request. So what you want to look at >> I mean you're saying that the TA request
is $526,000 less than what the school department requ >> and it's not included in the total tax numbers at the end. The 526 is not included in the numbers when when the tax rates calculate.
>> Right. >> And I I have a problem with that. I I I think that to ignore it is is not appropriate. >> No, I'm certainly not ignoring it. Uh what what
I felt my mission was to deliver to you tonight was a balanced budget and with that number it is unbalanced. So I wanted to show both. I wanted to show what the request came in and how that
resulted in an unbalanced budget and then how I made changes to those requests in order to get to a balanced budget. Right. >> And a significant element of that is a 3% increase on the school total compared to their >> eight
7.9. Yeah. >> Right. And I I think I like the fact that you added your own recommendation so we can see what people ask for. I think what Sarah's getting at, which is valid, is the school numbers are not ours. >> We have no control.
>> We have no control. So I I agree with you. We should go at them and try and help them find that 500k. Sarah's point is we have absolutely >> And this budget 750, excuse me. >> This budget book's only showing a 1.9% increase in the tax rate.
from both >> is not presented with. >> No, I'm sorry. I agree. No, I agree. >> I mean, that's the one number like I >> you can't have it peace meal like this because we always go off the total budget and say to the taxpayers this is the expected increase in your tax rate
and I can't do it from this budget. Well, I think we're not done yet. This is the beginning of the process. But this is the format. >> This is the format. >> Right. Right. And that's my concern. Yeah. for that one particular item. I I I that's a valid argument. It's not in
our control at all. But the others are in our control. You know, the people at this table, we could make a decision what we put forth to the taxpayers, but that's the one number we don't we don't control it. >> Thank you. Um,
another uh lever I would I I guess I would say that we could potentially consider that we talked about at the finance uh committee meeting was attempting to fully fund OPED um in the upcoming year. And that could
if we do that through um an override that would provide some relief to the general fund that could allow us to you know stay balanced with the other new.
So there's at this point where we are there's still a lot of I guess changes that can be made to help us get to that balanced budget without necessarily going for an override. Uh but wanted to you know really kind of
showcase the challenge that we're facing. I think that we'll all work together to avoid that over you know we'll all you know look at this and come forth with our ideas and you know I I would suggest that because this is such a difficult
year you know usually we do this meeting and then we have another joint meeting when we're ready to print the warrant right I don't think that's enough I think you know each fin does a deep dive right and they do it every week on a different section at at every select
board meeting Tony you got to come to us and I you know going to look at the numbers. What is FINCOM recommending? Are they recommending cuts? Do we want to recommend additional changes? Um and have those decisions along those discussions along the way rather than wait till the very end.
>> Um I think that would be helpful. And the only other thing at a high level I forgot to mention um it's part of any budget review I've ever done in my life, there's always a headcount slide. You know, um we should >> we need to have that.
I think that >> in 2025 we did release the fincom minutes on a weekly basis. >> So that will be a help in 2026. >> Tom, I mean I assume the FinCom meetings
and he's he can help us with the dialogue as well. Yeah. >> Not asking you guys to show up every at every select or us to show up or to show up at every site. Right. as it this doesn't sound like we're getting a raise, so I don't know.
>> Oh, you didn't see mine? 25% right on. Um, I will say that we, Andrea and I, uh, went through the entire budget line by line
looking at a five-year look back and and looking at trends and how each line uh, you know, has adjusted from year to year based on the uh, budgeted amount and the actual Bent amount
>> and tried to find areas that we could adjust and I can tell you it was very difficult. Um, there were >> I think Andrew was laughing at me when I was finding like a $50 reduction.
>> That's okay. >> But those pennies >> did go you did go through that exercise as best you could. >> It is, you know, and this is your first budget review with us and I that's why I sent you guys a note over the weekend. It's very obvious you went through every single line item. So don't take our
questions and my questions as anything other than thank you. But you know I have a different type of experience. I'll look at them a little differently and I might come up with something and consider. Everybody here has a different background. We might you know just have a thought. But you guys it's very
obvious you went through every single lineup. Very obvious. And I I think it's just important to say that here in a public meeting especially when we're you know we're talking about school budget is that >> you know we're asking them to do the same thing right so >> it's important that we look internally
as well uh through that pro with that process >> okay so how would you how would you like to go through these slides Yes. One at a time.
>> I think in order to get through the the presentation, what I think we've done in the past is we just any questions on like so we just voice our questions or concerns. We don't deliberate at the meeting, but you guys collect the information so that when Vencom does a
deep dive, they take our feedback into or questions into consideration. I I think it would be helpful to go through the summary of the expenses. Yeah. And have a brief discussion on the ones where the percentages are high. >> Okay. >> Y
>> and just right before that on the that first slide revenues but to highlight local receipts. Uh so this is something that I'll be discussing with the select board. uh lease are looking at increasing
the inspection services department fees >> um in order to uh come up to come up to I guess our comparable towns rates
>> um and it also satisfies the when in speaking with Paul Orlando the rates have always been um set to account for the cost of the service. Uh, one thing that we've been talking a lot about is
currently the assistant in inspectional services is also the assistant to the town assessor. And one thing we've been talking about is having an assistant that's purely dedicated to inspectional services. We have a a lot of
inspections, a lot of applications coming through. We've also talked about um trying to come up with a way to help streamline the process for that for those uh for permitting having a one-stop shop where potential developers
or property owners or businesses can come and say here's the property, here's what I'm looking to do. Um who am I going to have to who do I need to go talk to? Hong Kong, ZBA, planning board, all those things and help kind of
streamline that to improve our efficiency and, you know, friendliness to the to the consumer. A lot of the um feedback I' I've gotten in the short
time I've been here is that it's it's not clear exactly what a property owner or who a property owner is going to have to speak to. So, as they go through the process, they may get a building, uh,
permit, um, start construction, and then they have to deal with an asbestos thing with, you know, the health department or, um, you know, when do they have to go to in that process or ZBA. So, trying to kind of find a way to streamline
that. This increase in receipts would pay for the increased cost in a uh an assistant that would be purely for inspectional services department versus split between ISD and the assessors
>> and and that's the bill of goods we were sold when they added a land use clerk that the land use clerk was supposed to be doing that. The problem is they're over in Seaside One. They're not in the main building where people come. And so
we lost all of that. Um we're we're not getting we were getting all of the questions up front from clients on the ZBA stuff and we're not getting any of that anymore. And the land you the the theory behind
that hiring of the land use clerk was to put everything under one and that one person would determine what various boards a person needed to go to. And so it sounds to me like we're trying to make that argument again. And
my question is is how much more money is it costing us to have the land use clerk than the prior system? And what's been the benefit of >> should the building inspections be under land use? >> It was supposed to be. >> Yeah. >> Right. So I think again we don't need to
deliberate but that's a good example of us needing to validate a prior decision. Right. >> And also um you know we all want one-stop shopping but apparently we tried and failed or haven't got there yet. So >> well I wasn't >> look at
>> I wasn't around when that bill of goods was stolen. I don't know how that is that >> take a note. Move on to the next one. That's a good one to take a note on. What page are we on? I might ask. >> Uh that was page two.
Um CP a >> so that we don't have their uh they're still going through their application process. 25,000 is just representative of their typical administrative costs. That number will go up once they review their
applications and submit their proposals to us >> and that doesn't impact the overall budget. All completely outside. >> There's no entry on expense or on revenue. It's just >> zero. Okay. But >> okay with the bill that people get it when they get their tax bill. It's in
there as a separate line item. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. It's >> the actual expendit the It's just a wash on her system. >> It is. >> Okay. But certainly the revenue page would look a lot different if there was a realistic estimate. >> Correct. >> Right.
>> Right. >> So >> some of the expenses to make up for not having a good number. >> Should we put in $900,000 there and just say that's what
Yeah, I can put in last year's change. probably not going to have that much this year because they spent it their money last year. They only get in 500 a year, >> but that's a lot more than >> whatever it is. Plug in let's plug in a placeholder.
>> We can put in what their expected budget is for the upcoming year. >> Yeah. >> So, we're on page two. Are we done with page two? Are >> we on to page three? Sure. Moving right along.
I'm I'm sorry. >> There we go. >> The available funds. That's the difference in the reserves. >> That 31% drop. >> Yes. >> Okay. Available reserves, I should say.
>> Sorry, >> that was two pages ago. I think you know the the front pages they're all summary of the details of where the >> where my questions are. I don't know if there are problems with the summary. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Are there any questions on u the expenditure page? >> Yeah. All of the ones that general governmentwide go up 12.11%. >> Right. >> Okay. We'll get into that in the details. >> So, we obviously want to look at general
government. >> Y >> and public safety went up 8.7%. >> Public works is up 6.9%. >> And parks and wreck is up over 9%. >> So,
um public safety I can speak to uh off the top of my head because we actually Kathy asked the question earlier. So, thank you Kathy. Let's what page is that the detail? >> You want to wait and talk about that when we get to the detail page? >> I think these are just holes. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Let's do holes and let's get to the details >> because there are four or five holes. >> Okay. >> Northshore egg. Is that true number? >> What page are we on still? >> I'm on the summary page. I'm going highlighting the ones. >> Page three. >> I was I wasn't sure if you're on budget
or revenue summary. There's your page three. >> Yeah. Norshshire a is that a true number or is that just a guess? >> That's a number. >> That's a number. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Is it? >> Yeah, it will be. >> It will be based on the number of students. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> The capital improvements, I mean that can be anything from year to year. That's dropped a lot here. Is that to say that's what it's going to be or are we going to pave some more roads or what? It's it's >> it's whether it's out of taxation or something. Yeah. I mean, it's
>> we don't forget that for the past few years, we used a lot of ARPA funds to pay for uh public works infrastructure that was off the books. >> That's all gone now. >> Didn't flow through the budget. And
that's all gone. >> Spect. >> It was like four million. I think we got some article. And what was what's what's that acronym for? >> American American Rescue Plan Act. >> CO stuff. >> So we need another transmitter. >> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Anything else on page three? >> All right. So that's our that's our driven activity. Well, all I'm saying is we've been spending over the past year since co we upped our um capital budget
and a lot of the capital work done was funded with ARP. >> Understood. >> Which we no longer have which impacts the amount of work that can be done. didn't actually flow through the budget, but it gave us more money
and better streets. >> Nice sidewalks. >> Nobody on my street. >> On page three, >> the other questions. So on page three, are we just sort of generally flagging general government, public safety, public works, and parks
and rec? I mean, those are the numbers that have the big >> big jumps. >> Yeah. We might talk a little bit about debt service. >> Yeah. >> And just what projects you're issuing the bans
on. >> That raises that budget just so people know which projects they are. >> The revenue. Yep. >> Think so. >> You pass that page.
>> Four. >> One's gone twice. >> Why is Oh god, I can't. >> Why is the skin in green? >> That's I changed it from the last version of this. That's why it's green.
>> We added >> Andrea sent a new version out today that we adjusted that local receipt. So, she's just pointing it out. That's a different number from what you got. >> Are you on page five? >> Page five.
>> Okay. Y. >> So, page five, I had um a question online item 15 and that we already talked about it though. It's the uh the beach passes and stuff like that. The question I had was actually there was
such a dip in um you know the uh collections the actuals it but we already talked about that it would be nice to have a view on that. The other thing um not for budget discussion but for select board discussion the number
five the short-term rental excise tax if we are collecting you know $46,000 on the tiny amount of short-term rentals we have and we are planning to change the definition.
We ought to get on that because we're leaving money on the table here. Um, and so it's not for the, you know, for everybody to bake into the budget right this second, but if we get on that and just change the number of days, we could see as, you know, some
good revenue come in there. >> Um, so that's something that I have on the list as a potential article in a separate sheet of mine because we talked about that as a select board meeting, just changing that definition. >> Exactly. Uh, however, I don't think we'd be able to
increase the revenue on this projection yet. >> Not on the right. But I'm just saying it I know we've talked about it, but this thing these numbers put a different sense of urgency on it for me. Sure. So, I'm like, let's get on it. And I I think what you got to remember with this number is this is the money we're
receiving from the state and it's not necessarily tied to the applications you approve. >> But but being a pass through from Airbnb and VBO and those entities, they have to pass it through.
>> But I think if you look at the number of places where you've approved a short-term rental, it doesn't bear any correlation to the amount. That's what I that's why I want to take a look at this because we need to take a look at it, understand what we're collecting and see what we can do about it because we know we know there are more out there than we
>> Right. Uh but if if it comes from the rental company, >> that's true. then we might not >> we might not. >> No, but if uh a larger in-depth discussion and potential change to how we handle right >> or manage short-term rentals,
>> right, >> could generate additional revenue and it will likely also generate additional expense with inspections >> y >> between inspector, between the fire department, between >> which could be fee based. >> FE based, >> right? More revenue.
>> Exactly. Yeah, that could be a big change in that was >> so the the other question I had was this uh increase you just said uh today on the licenses and permits the 536 is that a result of the increased projected
inspectional fees you were talking about? Okay. >> Yep. uh $1 per thousand is estimated to bring in anywhere from 30 to $45,000. >> So we went on the low side on the
estimate and are proposing a $2 increase to hopefully bring in 60. >> Sounds good. Any other questions on page five? Are we requiring um everyone who takes
minutes now to use the AI function? >> No, but most are. >> Okay. You've been promoting it. >> Good question, but not everyone's doing that >> because I think that it is saving a lot of time.
>> Oh my god. It saves a ton of time. >> Yeah. Tony, as we get into collective bargaining and so forth into compensation, where are we on collective bargaining with various unions? >> So, I've met I've had initial meeting with uh the fire department and the
clerical union. Um first week of January, I'll be having my first meeting with the DPW. Uh I've asked them to uh expect the you know that we won't be
meeting again until mid January. Um mostly because we're waiting on information from Maya on potential health plan structures that we could put on the table and until we get that information it's really hard to
develop this draft. No, no adjustments in compensation have been no union adjustments are made >> in this draft. You'll have uh year three of the police contract.
They're on a different schedule. And then for the others, we have a 2.5% increase baked in here. >> Baked in. >> Yep. I want to go back to Sarah's comment about AI. I'm trying to think how we can
make AI pay for us. And if AI is used across all of the minutes for everything that's going on, I don't know what we budget for clerical support for all of our committees, but does that can that somehow affect the number of hours that are involved there? >> Definitely.
>> Yes. >> Is that something that we thought about? >> Definitely. >> Is that in here at all? No, you won't see that in here. >> It's an efficiency, not a cost savings. >> Well, it's a cost savings. >> Cost savings >> if you actually allow them to see
salaries of the admin people. >> Yeah. >> If you are hourly. >> Yeah, >> they're hourly. >> So, but we avoid overtime. >> Yeah. >> No, we don't. You pay them for fewer hours. >> Okay. >> Right. Yes. Okay. >> But there's a there's a floor, right? What's the floor? No, there's no floor.
What do you mean by that? >> So, like let's say we got rid of 75% of the clerical hours. Can I take a a person who works 35 hours a week and take them down to No, >> I'm talking about the part-time ones. >> That's what I'm getting at. So, that's what I'm getting at.
>> It's the part-time ones. I agree with you, but I I suspect majority of the minute takers agree, but I suspect I thought there were some full-time people who all also did minutes back. Maybe that's not true. >> So, with the hiring of the new land use
clerk. Yeah, >> they're doing that. >> We I pushed more committee minutes under that job description and they're utilizing AI to take up less of their time, which pulled hours away from some of the part-time folks. And I think there's a
it's very minimal now uh because CPC pays for that administrative cost outside of the general fund. Um >> but there's no reason why you can't to
John's point make it a requirement. I mean, we we we eased it in over the past, you know, year and a half or whatever and, you know, time to take off the gloves and say, "Hey, this is a tool. We need you to use it." >> You know, I couldn't agree more. I I
we've until we actually Yeah. >> I mean, Debbie had she worked out the bugs and picked the software and >> this consistency across all platforms. >> And I think it means they don't have to attend the meetings if they're using the AI. That's the big difference, >> right? They don't have to.
>> They don't have to. >> Right. That's ours. >> That's ours. >> And they have the recordings. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> If if there's some question about who's saying what, >> right? Right. So now we're taking >> pretty accurate. >> If somebody >> Well, they got you backwards.
>> If an admin attended a two-hour meeting and then spent an hour writing the minutes, >> right? >> The recording goes into the AI software and produces minutes in five five minutes. >> Right. Right. And then that draft is
sent to the chairperson for >> review. >> Yeah. >> So we've been we've been we've been moving towards that um >> that not all committees are doing it but >> so the other thing too is if you let us know I mean we can I know the committees
that I'm on I think they're all using it but maybe what not. But I'll I'll ask I mean we could all as liaison ask the folks you know the committees we attend are you using it or not and just say the committees probably don't know but they do they don't because a lot of the advisory committees they do their own
minutes they take turns >> it may not be the elected >> they're not paying a part-time person to write their minutes >> that's true targeting if we were targeting the committing part yeah >> but using AI I rather than somebody's
recollection of a meeting will give us better minutes from the right lesser. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> So it's important to lean on them too. >> Not just >> so that's the bottom line is that's not reflected right now.
>> No. >> Well, I think we need to keep that in mind here. I'm a little worried about Kathy's. We've got to know what we're doing and how what effect it has. We shouldn't assume that we're going to save a lot on killerical people because of AI until we
see it happening. Yeah, that big push. It's really only a few months old that we've really been pushing >> uh the use of AI and shifting some of those part-time some of that part-time work to the land use clerk.
That's only been because I definitely didn't do it when I first met everyone. >> It was like a month or two later that I said, you know, we really should do this a little bit different. I think it's only been a few months. >> Yeah, I think the finance committee meetings are now being done with AI.
>> I don't know. >> I believe so. >> Change after chair. >> So I think I would like to before before reflecting that in here more than
a few months of impact. >> Can I can I ask a process question? Are we going to go through every slide as a matter of time? Are we >> on page eight? >> Okay. Trying to get allies. >> No, no, I got it. But we should we
should be done by the time you have been fun. >> We're an hour in. >> We've got a list. >> I uh it's my first time going through this one. I'm actually leaning on you guys to help me with >> We've got a list of five areas that we
have concerns about >> and I suggest that we >> get through all of the summaries just so that we know where we are generally and then go to general government, public safety, public works, parks and wreck.
Um I've written down debt service. We may I don't think there's much to talk about there. >> All right, that helps. Thanks. And we can't sort out beach passes from less. >> Um, and is the pensions a good number? >> It is. Okay, that's my problem.
>> How are we doing on pensions? >> Not well. What do you do? >> I've been up 11.44% which is a lot higher than we have been. Um, usually always like you know estimated about a 8% increase. It's come in about six. So this is twice as much. Um I know that
they just went through like a thorough um review and audit. Um so I believe that's probably >> okay. So >> it's if I understand correctly, our pensions are like the OPED which is to say we are paying for the years when we didn't pay
in enough. Is there a date when we are likely to keep >> on that? Yeah, it keeps changing but it's like um early um 30s 20 30s >> 10 years ago. >> So so six years from now. >> Yes. >> Originally seven years and that was
about six years ago >> every two years. >> Okay. Anything else on expense summaries? This goes on page 13. Well, so there's no present percentages on the
pages like six and seven. So we kind of highlighted the general government is up 12.11% but now we get into six and seven which is a more exploded >> and there's no percentages.
>> So it kind of hard to know what we were questioning. some of the large cases. If you look at the FY26 or 27 change, >> um pensions, that's up um $12,000, which is 11.44% compared to the previous
year. Um health insurance, we plugged in 20% as $60,000 change from last year. That's the majority of the change. >> Okay. Okay. >> We did increase the legal professional services a little bit because we talked
about how we've um we just had like a really high level over the years between like the 40B project and um the Central Street Culver and some of these ongoing issues we've just run really really high and we've always run into budget issues at the end of the year with that line.
So they're trying to make it like kind of true to what >> we've been spending. >> Okay. And you knocked $65,000 off of what was asked for. >> Well, it was $65,000 change and I'm telling you knocked it down about
$5,000. >> What that last column is? >> Okay. Okay. All right. I'm just curious. Town hall expenses, not a big number, but it is 20%. >> What's going on? >> Electricity. >> Oh, all right.
>> That's what I was pushing on earlier. You know, how much of that is what we're subsidizing for different things? Oh, the other thing I didn't mention too, in some of the areas in the details, I saw that um the budgeting for gasoline costs was up in some areas and down in others.
Gas prices have been going down. So, I was curious as to why some areas >> where in all areas they weren't. >> Where has gas been going down? >> Well, I don't gas or >> I'm sorry, car fuel for the cars. >> Not here in town. Well, gas like diesel
fuel for trucks is not. >> So, >> actually the DPW numbers went down, but police and fire I think went up. So, I was it was just something to go look at. I would expect you know some macroeconomic conditions to figure into
the budgeting. I was curious so many went up and some went down. >> Hyper. No, >> we got two electrics and >> and I heard that even the cruises were at least >> hybrids.
>> I don't think there's only two. Anyway, it was just something I since you mentioned electricity >> when when it comes to natural gas and electricity, one of the things that we are pushing for in this budget is we
created a utility reserve account under Andrea's account >> because of every request kind of came in differently because it's so hard to predict what the rates are going to be and how cold it's going to be and how that's going to adjust. We tried to
level the budgets in each independent in each individual department. And if it if they need more at the end of the year, if they've used their entire utility budget line and they have additional bills,
they come to Andrea and Andrea would pay that bill out of the utility reserve. >> Why didn't we just move all of the utilities into her budget? Mo I I assumed because typically towns
like to see what a full cost implication is for a department. >> Yeah. >> Um so we just shifted kind of like that those peaks those potential peaks is what we shift. >> Yeah. No, that makes sense. >> Why are we setting up a separate account
for utilities rather than adding to the um finance committee reserve? >> Well, those have to be paid on a monthly basis. So, we didn't want to have to deal with going to the finance committee to get a reserve fund transfer for something like that. It's not really an
unexpected >> I guess it's an unexpected. >> Does it increase the total utility budget? >> Most likely. I'd have to add up all of them. >> No, but your reserve is that coming out of
excesses and departments. So, the overall utility budget's not higher including the reserve. No, I think >> from what's requested >> I think the overall is is more what we what we did was shaved the request.
So departments were asking to increase their individual utility lines. We tried to limit that and put it in a utility reserve under Adria's account because your line items are voted by
salary and expense, right? So even though it's in that line item at the end of the year can be used for other expenses. And we really felt like it was important to have a little bit more control over the padding of a utility line. >> The only thing I'm reacting to is you're
you're now creating a separate pool. So we can no longer tell whether that line item is increasing or not. That's why I was asking is in order to create her pool, did you take it out
of requests from existing department? So the overall budget's no higher than it was before, right? That's what I'm asking. >> We'll we'll do that analysis for you so you can >> Okay. Yeah. Our goal was to
limit increases in individual budgets and put it in a one single >> Right. You don't want them using that as a management reserve. They have manage reserves on their Sure. >> Exactly. >> My my concern is that
having looked a bit at the Essex budget, they have lots of little pockets of money, >> right? and and each of them is to for something special and you can't spend it on anything else and I I don't mind
having a fire engine bucket but I'm not real pleased about having other separate buckets. >> I I think this is different an I think that in essics town meeting actually votes >> yes >> for each of those reserve funds. I don't
think we're talking about that with Andrea's fund. It's just part of the general expenses. >> Yeah, it's a sub account. >> So, it can be used for any other expenses >> and it wouldn't carry that over year to year. Okay. >> Like those other accounts. It would just be for that fiscal year. >> So, if you don't spend all of it, it goes back to free cash.
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I agree with you on >> Yeah. Yeah. >> No, we didn't we weren't trying to create something like that. >> Nobody is ever trying to create something like that. It just happens. >> Lots of good ideas.
Think of it this way. Instead of having 12 different envelopes in each department, >> right? >> That's one in Andrea's and but it's not something that can carry over from year to year. >> Okay. >> So, one mechanical question just when we
get to the last two weeks of the year and we're able to do fund transfers within departments, does this limit your ability to do that? this >> hopefully it will decrease the number that have to do
>> that's the idea >> good there were a lot this year >> yes last two years >> okay the first thing that we mentioned needing to take a good look at was general government >> and I think Andrea just explained that
>> okay >> she said it was would you say again the majority of It is a health insurance contention legal professional services. >> What page you on? I'm >> at 19 at this point.
>> Um I'm sorry. What page are you on? >> She jumped to the next general area. >> I'm sorry. Back on 17 just for a second. I was sure I was on seventh. No. It's a big jump.
>> Um the HR costs, professional services, there's a big jump there. >> Yeah. >> What page are we looking? >> That's a shared >> This is 17. >> I'm looking at 17. There's a >> big jump there in cost and that's for a
resource we're supposed to be sharing with Hamilton. So I was just wondering what happened there. >> Explain that one. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I know but I'd rather you Yeah, go ahead. So we have the agreement with um Hamilton and it's
a calculation that we've agreed on and in years past we had always budgeted for 10 hours and then one year we tried to reduce it to eight but end up being not agreed upon and for whatever reason I don't know if it was timing or something like that and so it stayed at 10 and so we've
consistently over spent that line item and so this year I was trying to I was bumped it up to be what I expected to be for FY27. because we spent 425 and >> it's not that we're getting it's not that we're getting more hours of more services. We're trying to rightsize the
budget for what was previously undered. >> Exactly. Yes. Thank you. >> All right. So the other thing just generally um on page 18 where um you have the revenue
detail for only the past year >> the reason I as made my request for the earlier um activity based costing view is we don't have a trend a detailed trend for the revenue we have detailed trending for the expenses but we only
have the trending ing of the revenue at a summary level. So, it's not real helpful if we're trying to answer some of these questions. Um, so just a thought, you know, um, be nice to have apples to apples >> because trends are usually more
important. >> We just got this page added in last year. >> Yeah, it was it was a good adage. It was a good ad. It's just it would be nice if it had the trends because that's Is there anything else in general government that we need to talk about?
>> Looking up to 19. >> Well, the age 23 >> 23 or is that different? Yes. Yeah,
>> significant increase on the town clerk due to the uh elections that we'll have in the upcoming year. So, I believe the town clerk has has attempted to budget according to the number of elections and
that we need to >> right. Yeah, we're actually I was looking at the parking clerk those sticks. So again, I think it would be helpful to have a view on parking. We already talked about that. The other note I had on town cl work cl work cl work cl work cl work cl work cl work cl work cl work cl work was also we're not collecting any fees for the notary and I don't know
if there's other optional services but we added half a head um and we should offset that headcount with fees for those optional services. I I think the notary service is very val very very
valued services and I'm not sure >> charging for appropriate. >> Oh, we added >> well um the school building committee
is talking or the school Yeah. school committee. The superintendent said that she would like to have a separate town meeting to vote on the school building program. What's >> she going to pay for? >> Um, good question.
>> Uh, absolutely. So, that would be probably two fall town meetings for a total of three. >> Why Why would we have a separate? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. because they wanted to have a focus on
that problem alone because it's a huge it's a huge number and it's a huge change and um their consultants recommend that the town vote on have a meeting just to consider that so that
the people don't get snaggles. I think she was also trying to schedule it in a way that both towns would have a special town meeting just for the schools and then there would be a ballot question with the state elections.
>> The two >> we don't normally do that. >> Two town meetings would be one day apart and then there would be a ballot um however long >> in the November >> so that so that they both timing be for the special town >> October I think. Yes.
>> This is for the building project or for >> Yes. Yeah. >> Just for the building. >> To Brian's point, if they pay for it, >> I mean, we're not covering it out of our Why would we cover that? >> We talked a little bit about this at the committee meeting.
>> I'm sorry. >> The notes I had on the preliminary schedule when the schematic design was going to be done, which is ultimately submitted to the state. I I had recorded that that was going to be October next year. And the schemat I think the schematic
has to be approved by the state before we can vote on it >> before we know what the cost is. >> Right. >> The MSBA is going to have to approve >> first before we work out. >> You even know what you're doing, >> right? >> Yeah. So I we were thinking that they weren't even going to be ready for an
event. >> But >> what >> I was at the presentation at at at the memorial school. Okay. and and that was those were the dates that were given. I think we need to I may need to make a
note to go back and validate. >> Yeah, I I could confirm for myself. >> You have a more detailed but I would not like to find myself in October and there's nothing ready and we have to have a town meeting and folk
before everybody knows what's going on. >> Right. It's one thing to have a special town meeting because the timing, you know, sort of compels us to do that, but otherwise >> spending that money seems, you know, like we've, you know, we digested the memorial project pretty well within a
regular town meeting. I thought >> most trying to buy for the expenses so you don't get >> No, they're trying to attract a a welcome audience. >> Exactly. >> Well,
moving all the other budget items. Okay. No one's going to sit there and say, "Well, we just, you know, now you're asking for this is after we've already approved $30 million somewhere else." >> This is this is >> Yes. Yeah. Maybe we don't want to play
the game, >> right? >> Well, that's that's a that's a question. Are we in the business of of arranging the voting calendar either for or against any particular uh issue or item that might be on the
vote and is that our is that our job? >> No. >> Uh even though I don't you know whether they have a plus or they vote for it or they don't vote for it. I mean I don't want to know much about it myself but >> they're going to have the schematics in October. No one has an opportunity to
redo that. >> Yeah. >> All right. Including the state the uh in the rotunda. >> It sounds like it's a spring town meeting the following year. >> Yeah. Might be >> they have a drop dead I think of August of 27.
>> There is there is a timing mechanism with the MSBA certainly. So that does come into it and that could you know if they're not ready in November but April's too late that could compel us to go for something in between. What is the hold up on the schematic?
>> I think they want two wax at the pie. >> I I don't I don't think there's a hold up on schematics. It's just this is how the schedule is playing out. >> Well, anyways, I think Ann's point is should we be budgeting for an additional fall town meeting? And we have it sounds
like there's a lot of other questions. >> There are a lot of questions. I I think we should budget for that because whether it as long as it happens before the 1st of July, it's in this next fiscal year. >> And
>> I don't think we should budget for it. >> Back to the original question. Why wouldn't we ask the school to pay for >> That's what I'm saying. >> Why wouldn't it? >> They can put in their budget. >> Yeah. >> We'll end up paying for it anyway. >> It's not on our operational budget.
Yeah, it will be >> but can come through it is to I mean I don't think we should be budgeting for things we don't know whether or not >> but also I think that some All right, we got it. I think that a fall town meeting for our purposes
is included in this budget and we I think that we can make a decision as to whether we want >> separate >> to do them together >> because at this point we have no idea if there's anything about >> Yes. I even think about >> what what would be the difference in co
like so they want to skip a night which I don't really understand >> what is what would be the difference in cost to doing an extra night of town meeting instead of skipping a night and what is the idea behind skipping a night >> I don't think it's but you have to skip
a night because there's only one building committee and there's only one superintendent can't be in two places at once It was going to be once, >> right? But we're going to have our town meeting, then we're going to skip a night and then we're going to do this. >> No. No. No. So, we So, they're just
saying that they would like us potentially was like a special town meeting in the fall that only had the school item on the warrant separate from any other potential fall town meeting topics that we might want to do on our own. Whether that be a day apart, a
month apart, that's not really what they're getting into. >> Okay. >> But but I think that that's for us to evaluate and make that decision on. >> I agree with Sarah. It's it's not something I don't think we need. We budgeting for two town meetings. That makes sense. And if we have to have a
third for some reason, you know, has their reserve, they have >> the reserve. We can >> or just ask the schools to pay for it. We have options. >> Did we budget for a town meeting in the fall? this current budget. >> Yes. >> Which uh we we are not having
>> right. So we'll go and re cash at the end of the year. >> Correct. Okay. >> All $3,000 worth the number. >> It's around 3,000. >> We're arguing about $3,000. Let's just move on. >> Page. Are we on now? Ann
>> we passed town clerk. Are we done with the town clerk? I think we're done with unless anybody has said anything on that. >> I guess I guess just the fees and fines here. Are these all state regulated or do we set any of these? >> I believe we just set some
out. >> That would be another thing to take a look at. Anything that it's not regulated by the state. When's the last time we checked? >> It's 20 years old. Maybe we got to look at it. So we've got the
the page of fees and the next is 25 which is finance accounting. Anything on the assessor treasure collector? >> Why was there a difference in the salaries requested
and recommended the assessor? >> Yeah. To the assessor. >> It was a request for a large increase that we didn't feel we could accommodate this. Good answer.
>> Treasure collector. Okay. Land use. So in terms of the land management consolidation, you know, that those responsibilities, um, is that working out? Um, and
I guess not clear on what their responsibilities are beyond like planning boards, EBA. It seems like there's a lot of um >> board Yeah, Kong board support as
opposed to are there any other land related >> that would be part of this responsibility? So, for example, the DPW budget has some stuff in there. There's tree maintenance. There's other things related to land, not infrastructure. Um,
this has 25,000 for service. So, I'm just wondering what you know, is there anything left in the DPW budget or other budgets that should be under here? >> I don't know. >> I I don't I don't think so.
>> I don't know. Okay. I don't think so. None that come to mind. >> You had a recommendation that the building inspector >> be in land management, right? >> You know, so it's something that we can continue to >> okay
>> talk about. Um I think that land land management is pretty diverse as it is. >> There's a lot to manage there right now. uh it really hasn't even had the opportunity to >> right
>> flourish because the the previous clerk we had a transition >> uh at with the previous clerk. So >> hasn't really had an opportunity to kind of get a grip of everything that has fallen under the new organization of
itself. I also think there's value to having um inspectional services under assessor so that we can make sure that we're collecting all that new growth. >> Um but there's there's there could be
alternatives that we could we could look at. >> It makes sense to you know you've you've bitten off a chunk of work, make sure it's working before you tinker with it. So, so just on that on that um having the building inspector moved to the assessor's office that's being
considered but has not been implemented. >> They're actually that's where it is now. >> Oh, it is. Okay. >> That's So, okay. >> I think at one point there was a discussion about potentially moving inspectional services to land management. >> I see. Okay. Thank you. All right,
>> that was part of the >> So again, the the way it's broken out, it's a little difficult to >> separate out like on page 26, the assessor's office is the building inspector I thought I saw under DPW. So,
is the building inspector salary on page 26 under salaries area or is the building inspector salary still under DPW? >> It's not DP. Sorry, wherever it is. >> It's a stepafety.
>> Public safety. Okay. So, >> why building is under public safety? >> Yeah. So I don't know, you know, there's a >> there's a lot of >> a lot of changes I would make. >> Yeah. >> But I didn't want to shock
>> uh the system >> right out of the gate. But there's, you know, even there was some reor in finance, too. Um, and those are still kind of >> separated within the budget. So I I I wouldn't mind reorganizing the structure
of the budget to reflect what's actually occurring. >> I think it should be how you people accountable. You know, >> I think we should wait till next year. >> Yeah. >> I think we need to get through this budget cycle >> without making a lot of changes or we're never going to get through the cycle,
>> right? >> It gets very confusing when you start merging stuff. When you look at those summary lines, you'll see a significant decrease in one department and an in significant increase in another. And you just shifted one to the other. >> So I didn't want to >> Okay.
>> over complicated, >> but then we really should the the budget should align for the next cycle. When you do a restructuring, you you got to your >> I I agree. We we had that conversation, right? And I'm assuming you're looking at the rein management fees.
Actually, that's a good land management is kind of a good example of how that budget how the budget was restructured to roll everything in under it was kind of difficult to look you know work back to see those trends because
>> it's always true with a restructuring it's painful you get at some point you have to ban it >> yeah on page 36 hall electricity >> the electricity cost went up this is
when I was starting to question is this why subsidizing the electricity use outside >> okay >> I don't know what other reason there is for just the price of electricity >> the friendship tree >> yeah the actual in 2025 was 87,500
and we budgeted 45,000 >> again the question is though, what are we paying for? >> So, is this street lights? >> I think >> street lights are elsewhere. >> No, street lights are somewhere else. >> This is the new It's the new heating system. >> All this electric. >> Yep. It's all the new heating system.
>> It was electric before. >> There's heat pumps. There's charging, but it wasn't heated to 80°. Well, as Barbers get older, he thinks you can ask John.
>> Get a sweater. >> I always come with a sweater to these meetings. >> That's a cold corner right there. >> We don't have any choice. They send us a bill, we pay it. And I think everybody knows about insurance
>> and the insurance number. We should get something good in February. Is that right? >> Usually they they announce something at the MMA conference in January, but final numbers to individual communities right around it's our Valentine's Day gift. Okay.
>> You said something good. That's poor choice of words. Okay. Um, moving along on 39, we start with police part of the uh public safety questions.
So, some of the questions that I had on the these is I saw um notations in parks and wreck about this being a July 4th year and the police costs were whatever they were and I wasn't sure if the police increase was due to the July 4th
activity or whether or not that's in the parks and rock budget >> budget under fourth of July. >> Okay. So, that police is in that line. Okay. So, why is it police? >> Then I get I guess I have questions. What was the cost to what's the cost of
living increase in the police's contract? You >> three. Okay. >> Is this just is there anything other than the cost of living increase that's in the contractual requirement? >> There's um two uh degrees that were earned. So that affects the career incentive which is now in the line of
the career incentive line. >> Okay. >> And then um yeah, we already talked about that. Oh, I know. Um,
I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Just on police, I notice the training has gone down. That doesn't each year it seems like training and the associated comp for training off site in public safety just
tends to kind of always go up. Is there a reason that big reason or is this just a Not really. I think this year, if I recall from our discussions with um Todd and Mark, um a lot of like training is being brought like the fire department
has a lot of training like medic training, EMP training and stuff like that that they can do over there. So, they won't have that increased cost for >> Well, training cost is higher. They're recommending higher still >> $500.
Um the question I had was on the fire and the police. there's a new radio technician line item. I was curious about that. Um and then on the dues and subscriptions
um are quite healthy and we didn't you know just wondering there's something specific there on the views and subscriptions and the radio technician. >> Yeah, both of those. I had the same ones.
Mark >> the views and subscriptions went up because of the new cost for the request for the public records request. Uh we have the public safety version of that for them. Um has to be separate from the town because of all the confidentiality
and other requirements. >> Yeah. Sorry. Is that software or manual >> software? It's a software subscription. And then there's another software subscription that um called poo voice which is like an AI AI assist. Um so that that's the cost of
>> so that's so um to me it's interesting that we're not capturing the technology separately. A dues and subscriptions is usually a professional association and stuff. your IT costs. Yes, they are subscriptionbased, but you really should
be tracking those separately because you want to understand the technology you're investing in. Is it, you know, getting what you wanted to get. It really, my opinion, should not be mingled with dues and subscriptions. Those are typically professional associations and, you know,
go to a conference or whatever, but not it costs. Um, >> so what's this radio technician thing that >> recall from my notes? Um, all based on my memory right now for that line is uh
there's like a lot of like radio equipment that is not part of the regional 911 um >> consortium. And so they don't cover that. they cover the radios that belong um the regional dispatch. Um so that's we've encountered a lot of costs
associated with that. So >> So when we get into detail on the budget, we're going to do why do we need it? >> Why do we need that stuff at all? >> Need it. Do we really need it this year? Anything animal control? Next up is fire.
On the revenue for police again, is there anything regarding licenses? Are those those are state regulated, right? >> I think almost all of those are state >> reg. Got it. So fire uh the significant changes in salaries here is you recall that last
year there was a deputy chief position added but it was for the final quarter of last year. So >> this year >> this year >> I'm sorry for the current fiscal year. So >> this is fully loaded. >> So this is fully loaded. Uh we also with the addition of uh the
safer grant we have TW we we own 25% of that cost. So it's four new firefighters we have uh in year one the obligation to pay for 25%. So one of those full-time firefighters saber grant requires that
we maintain a staff count of 21. So what will will actually be a staff count of 22. However, what you'll see in the time minister recommended budget and uh Chief McN's on the call here is what
we did was come January of the next fiscal year, we expect a lieutenant to retire. with the lieutenant retiring and then promotion within a firefighter uh position will not be backfilled but it's
only for six months of the this kind of a multi-layered >> so that all makes sense but this is one of the reasons why we need a headcount chart >> yeah and I think that's this needs further discussion >> because I think there's the opportunity
>> to perhaps have deputy chief from within and not fill that position and leave the number of positions at 21 as as was submitted in the safer grant. I think that needs to be looked at. >> We do need to look at that. And I I did not it didn't register with me that when
we accepted the safer grant, we were committing to a particular headcount for a particular how many years? >> Threeear period. >> Okay. because we specifically have kept the fire head count down because we wanted the call firefighter program
beefed up. It's been very successful. Um but we my understanding we had no commitment to fully staff the firefighters um you know for the two in two out or whatever the you know the the regulation or desire is
with just full-time firefighters. we were beefing up the call force to make sure that the staffing is appropriate. So I feel like I personally have lost track of that a little bit and I think we need to to your point Sarah we need to really take a hard look at that.
>> So my my understanding is that um there's a potential to capture additional revenue >> through our ambulance service. Um but in order to capture that we have to have four firefighters on a shift. Um the
safer grant allows us to get to that point at with only 25% of the cough so that for the next three years we can see if we you know what the costbenefit analysis of that is. >> Well no one comes looking for a third
ambulance. >> Well it's talking staffing right. I think when we approved the deputy chief that was long before we considered bringing four new firefighters. >> Correct. Correct. So it's a different discussion. >> It is a different discussion. Yeah,
>> it is. But but >> probably not for tonight, but not for tonight. But it's a deep dive work. >> Yeah. >> But two points I think just for tonight. We talk about revenue with ambulance and it's really about reducing loss.
>> The ambulance is not a money maker. Nobody's putting net income into free cash from ambulance. So I think it's a terminology issue that we just need to really understand. The second thing that I just heard but haven't heard before is
that we are required to have 21. When I hear required in 21 I immediately think overtime. If we are required to maintain a team of 21 that means the overtime denominator has gotten bigger. And I think we're just gonna want to watch that because as you
can see in prior years we we have had >> staffing of 21 not 21 on duty. >> Correct. >> Which is but but the staffing of four and four means we just need to watch overtime because we have had big overtime numbers in the past and as we
roll to the end of the year we're scrambling to figure out how to cover overtime in the last two weeks of the fiscal year. So, it's just kind of a let's make sure we keep an eye on that or we plan around that this all expenses
professional services line item question on that. Um, more tools, more expense. Those costs seem to go up every year. Something to look at. Um, does this budget include
suits and everything before you fire? >> I'll double check. I know he added 9,000 at the bottom, but PP. Yeah, that's free. That's different. That's like replacing everyone's >> not everyone's going to be on a rotating
thing, but he does have some included equipment as well. >> Okay. >> So, the increased headcount is driving up expense cost. >> I don't know if it's in here or not. That's what I'm ask. >> And so, another reason why we have to keep an eye on that. >> And I correct. They each have their own
turnout gear. They don't share. No, they don't. >> Correct. >> But I don't I ask how he accounted for that. >> I was say I think they have the hire be hired by March. So it'll be this year's expense 26 expense.
>> That would be deep. >> Okay. >> The fire revenue we just up the the fees. I reference or inspections. Again, that's why it'd be really nice to have a trend with the detail to see, you know, what is that
getting us >> J said it's positive. There's the numbers. Yeah, I mean like I said just generally >> I guess we said no to the votes when we're not going to capital. >> Okay. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. We went we we went through the harvesters uh half bank with the harbor master. Um there was a request for additional fund to
um increase services or hours uh on the launch >> dock >> on the dock. >> Um but you know after after going through the numbers and looking at the revenues Kathy Uh it we it's it's not
something that we are able to add into this budget or into my budget. So that green what's in green though was that uh in doing in not accommodating the request I actually
made a more negative impact uh as if the request was never made. I actually created a decrease to the harbor budget. So after going through with buying, we reloaded that in. So my my budget has a just an increase of $329 in harvester
salaries compared to last year. >> Okay. And then on on the launch, you'll see a reduction um that is just right sizing the budget. That's not a reduction in services. It's
just right sizing the budget for what has been spent. >> Okay, that's public safety. Didn't have any concern. We've talked about the building department, but and
that's we're on page 52, DPW Highway going once. So just yeah, one question. Sorry, excuse me. Had a question on uh you were talking about training earlier.
>> And do these people ever receive any training because that line item was a little disappointing. I would say the actuals >> 253. >> Are we not training these people or the cost just covered differently?
>> Um you know uh we have Jody Morris here from Friends of Trees. We have a meeting with Chuck on on a Thursday on the tree policy and stuff like that. We're going to be talking to him about training. Um but I just was curious um are these people
>> I think that training that training is mostly or that those funds are mostly for training at the department head level or higher level and they have not had the time to
be able to go to those types of things in in the past few years. So I did reduce it. >> Yeah. >> Um slightly >> but I want to encourage that they go to those >> my note here it's disappointing >> that has been spent not that we haven't
spent anything >> to train folks that >> in three years I mean that's that's disappointing. So and but but we don't have the actual for this year. So again, it's hard to see. >> Also, the last couple years, um, Maya, our insurance carrier, offers a lot of
training and we've been um, taking advantage of that. Um, they're really great trainings and we also get a premium reduction. >> They're what? I'm sorry. >> A premium reduction. Okay. Based on like, you know, attendance and things like that. So, we really take advantage of that. >> Yeah. >> Are they taking advantage?
>> They are. Good. Okay. So, that's great. Excellent. >> Yeah. I I think it would be helpful to have a breakdown of the management salaries between the various subsections in the DPW. >> Yes, I know I owe I owe you that. I was put pasting in this. I just have time to
do that. Okay. I have it on my list. >> Thank you, sir. >> No removal. >> They did the sidewalks. >> Yes. Uh not mine. I'll go check again when I get home. >> Okay. Um, street light.
>> Go. I'm telling you check on Wednesdays, >> right? 28 degrees. >> Well, Friday. >> Yeah. Friday supposed to be street lighting. >> Is is snow removal done inhouse or is it done by contractor? >> There's we both.
>> We do have some contractors. >> Yeah, there's a line for hired equipment at 25,000. >> I see. Okay. the guy that are parked on the side. >> This is like the one budget item that I think you can adjust.
>> Right. >> Right. That we can roll over so it doesn't >> Oh, we have a crazy crazy snow year rolls into a three-year average, I believe. >> No, the maximum we can what we budget is based on the fiveyear average,
>> right? >> We can't go below it, right? >> Well, I think we can jumping through hoops. Just make your case >> canvas. Is that a rule? >> It's Yeah, it's like a >> requirement. Yeah, it's a D require. I have to submit a separate report every
year on just the snow and ice budget. Um and they look at that very closely and um you know they don't want you >> charging like you know a million dollars in your snow and ice budget because obviously you're overcharging taxpayers but you also don't want to under and then get in trouble at the end of the year either. So they really
>> take a hard look at that. So, it's if we want to say we want to increase it, but our average only shows that we've spent so much, um, they're going to be like, why? You know, you crystal ball, you know what the snow's going to be next year and things like that. So, even one year, well, they might not consider that.
>> And if we overspend the budget, >> we can pay for it in the next fiscal year. Can it go more than one fiscal year? >> It can, but we get dinged twice. So if if we don't come up with any other funds to cover that deficit in stone Ice in the current fiscal year of the deficit,
we get dinged on free cash. So they reduce our free cash by that deficit amount and we have to raise it on the tax recap. trying to find light um street lighting. It was pretty the actuals was pretty high in 2025
for some reason. Is that an aberration and comfortable with the budget we have? >> We're getting there. We had if you guys recall we had the an agreement with solar company. Um so that that agreement the percentages were off so it was
creating significant credits in our national grid bills. And so like our yeartoyear is a little hard to average you say is the happy hollow would be a couple months behind. National grid would be a couple months ahead. >> It used to be a lot higher. I mean like
years ago it was five times this number for street lights. I mean I think >> national grid >> national grid and we didn't have LED lights and all the other >> Yeah. >> Good. >> I think we've talked about sanitation.
utilities any same thing on the revenues. When's the last time? Well, I just have a question. Why is the fire department building maintenance under the TPW facilities? >> All of departments, all the buildings.
>> So, they all just this is where it all ends up, >> right? there's like a small lines of building maintenance and like you know um library and fire and things like that like small things but for like the general maintenance of like generators and boiler things um maintenance and
like other stuff like that it's just was easier have under DDW because they schedule all of it for all the the buildings so it comes in on one bill and >> so the police department would fall in with town hall because they're here >> right >> but when I looked at The library budget
also seemed like there was a building maintenance under the library, but I didn't understand why it was there twice. >> What's uh what's that? >> Same with like the fire department. They have like a small amount and that's for like I don't know, they need like
>> thousand dollars or something. It wasn't too long. >> This the state library group has some sort of a rule about the increase the percentage that you have to have in order to be >> maintained credited or something like that. >> That's why that's actually why
>> so I'm wondering why it was yanked out there because they want as much money on there so they can show that they're spending money on libraries >> because there's 15,000 in maintenance facilities in the library budget. >> What page is that? um 62.
>> I think that all be in the facility budget >> maintenance. >> Well, unless I'm misreading it. 15047 in the maintenance facility. >> It's still there. >> Yeah, I think that should be >> it didn't get reduced.
You can increase it in the DPW facilities line if you want, but that just seems duplicative. >> On the other hand, the maintenance of the library has been a problem. >> Yes. >> I think she's suggesting moving it, not reducing the cost.
>> Getting it into DPW so that there's responsibility, >> right? >> Okay, >> that's where you see that >> maintenance facility. page 62 >> right under librarian >> under salaries >> maintenance facilities
>> is that the >> custodian >> that's the custodian salary >> does he move along too >> oh they're using the top custodian and that's a charge through okay >> I didn't look at the header thank you >> so there was some additional while we're
on library there was some additional requested salary that had no reason it just was we want $8,000 more. >> You recommended we don't do that, which is very nice. >> That's what was what were they asking? >> That's Saturday hours. >> Yeah, it's it's mostly to
um to be able to be open more on the weekends, have more weekend hours, especially I think in the summertime >> and have more full-time staff >> going through this for years. And it's and again, it's not that I'm not
supportive of that desire. It's just given the larger picture of our challenges, I don't think we have the ability to do it this year. >> No, but they uh one question I have is isn't there a um nonprofit that supports them as well. >> Yeah.
>> And so those revenues are not reflected here because they're not towns. I'm sorry. Check them with fields coming. the win. >> Yeah, the win. Yeah, that's
>> Yeah. Is that referring in here? >> No, it is not. >> That's a trust fund revenue, not general fund revenue. >> Okay. So when when services that we have are supported by nonprofits like friends of COA or friends of the library, none
of that revenue is reflected here. >> And the expense isn't they're covering things that are not in the budget. >> They're covering things that are not in the budget. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> So actually to your point we back to
facilities library building maintenance >> is there >> is there because it to maintain accreditation they have to spend about 19% of their total expenditures in a given year on
materials. So any increase in salary or other non-material expenses would have that ripple effect drives that >> it drives that up. However, it is actually based the formula is actually based on what's expended not what's
appropriated and they do have alternative funding sources from the state that they spend on materials to supplement that requirement. So I don't I don't think the town has funded the materials
at 19% historically although they've expended uh 19% of their total expenditure on materials and maintain that accreditation. >> It's 104,000.
So just to understand that a little clearly >> there's 104,000 in the budget presumably that's coming from taxation >> and if they have alternative sources of revenue is that being added above and beyond or
is that offsetting that 104,000 and that's dropping the free cash as a savings and expenses at the end. I think it's being added above and beyond, but I don't think that there's >> I mean, I don't know if there's savings
here at the end of the year that drops the precash. >> There might be, but not usually in the books. Um, >> yeah, >> materials. Usually they they always try and spend that percentage amount and um you know some of the trust funds like yes we get that revenue in but it's like specifically for certain things like we
have one trust fund that we get money in um and we use the interest income and stuff like that for just large print books and the library can use that as part of their calculation for the books and materials. Um, was the books and magazines
line decreased based on the changes that were made in the budget? Can we look at that? Because we took out 8,700. Looks like we took out another 4,000.
I don't know. But there were looks like there's adjustments and we need to make sure that they were netted out before that 19% calculation was made. What is the total budget for the
library? Not just what's in our taxation budget, but what are they spending? >> Oh, like including the general fund. >> Oh, she >> outside of that. So we have the state
aid and their trust funds. So >> they have to submit a report in order to maintain their accreditation where they show what their total expenditures was and what material. So there's a report
that is available that we can pull >> show that. >> Well, that was not on our list, but thank you for the library. Parks and wreck. Wait a minute. We skipped hell. Oh, yeah. Helps was not
on our list. >> Oh, sorry. No, thanks. 64. Why is there such a large increase in the program coordinator line? Is this an organizational thing? >> Program coordinator has more
responsibilities now. >> It's not additional hours. It's increasing responsibility. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Since Cheryl was doing >> Yeah. Right. So Cheryl was elevated well took on the additional role of team leader.
those responsibilities then added to the program. >> So it's um it's in the third line. >> So Cheryl's getting the team leader statement. >> Third line. >> So that jacked up both numbers, line two
and line three. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I see. Okay, I think we understand first 64 65 singing cards.
>> That's just like correct. >> Yeah, I think last year we had to bump it up quite a bit in order to higher people rate. X boy chapel.
>> Can we look how to get more rental out of ch? >> I think it's top is it? There was a code issue with the second meeting. >> It's a parking issue. >> Good thing I think
right >> Oh, I had a question on the parks and revenue the um >> we haven't done other yet. Oh, I'm sorry. >> Slow down. Sorry. We have a big increase in fourth of July
because it's a big fourth of July. >> But the police and fire are covered in here. >> This fire as well or is it just police? >> Says police. >> Police. Um I believe we cover fire and as well >> but the they didn't in they didn't
increase the budget to cover the police. >> We increased the 13,000. >> Right. But it says please estimate 24,300. >> The difference is coming from donations. >> No, the difference is like last year we we bumped it up to 2172.
>> And so that's what their estimate was for last year, the non-fireworks year. And so this year is a fireworks year. So that's added 10 plus the 24300 to get to 34300. >> Wow. >> Oh, they're gonna have a fundraiser.
the idea it'll sink back down to more normal stuff. >> Yeah. >> Parks and Rex has over time fourth of July. It >> says add staff OT costs. I said it's
>> Oh, that's a total 60 is more if you Okay, got it. >> Turn the line. >> Yeah, got it. >> I like the fireworks. I don't care for the >> Hey, this is a good way to run a >> So, so now we're on revenue. Sorry. I
did not understand the line item of recreation parking stickers because we don't have special beach stickers anymore and we have the non-resident parking up above. So I wasn't sure what recreation parking stickers was for 21,000.
I was looking for that. What's that? be nice to have that all looked at because the other thing that surprises me is if your car is not registered in Manchester and you own a property, you still get a free residence sticker.
>> Well, yeah. >> All you have to do is show your registration, right? the first >> for those of us who were here part-time, you know, that's >> So, you're taxpayers. >> We're taxpayers pay the same taxes and
I'm entitled to I was entitled to a resident parking sticker because I was here on the weekends and >> Oh, but you got your kids whose cars are registered in different states, >> right? They don't pay taxes. >> It's for people who have multi multiple home owners.
home. Excuse me. >> Thing's a ripoff. >> But yeah, we got to go look it up. But I just I it was odd because I didn't think parks and wreck issued parking stickers. So I I don't know what that is.
>> Take another look at it. I want >> I think what they do is uh the >> passes beach passes come to >> But that's beach pass a separate line item. The next line item, the 217 >> 217,000. >> I want to say that the town clerk uses
one line and park and wreck uses the other. >> Sorry, what was it? >> The town clerk use posts to one account number and park and wreck posts to the other. So you can see which department. >> So depending on how the >> look at that. >> So that still doesn't make sense because
we're talking about parking, >> right? And town clerk shouldn't be issuing non-resident parking. No, >> no, it's not. >> But they might be posting. So the like the pass, the walk- on passes. >> Let's just mark that as something we should look at.
>> These are stickers. >> Yeah, that doesn't >> Yeah, it may not be stickers. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, we mentioned death services. I realize there's a substantial
increase, but that's not something really change there. >> No, I think we asked her to give us which projects are included in this increase so people know. >> Yeah. >> When we had when we approved the project
because it would have been in a priority. Even though it's even though the debt service will not be actually incurred until some future date, >> she's she's got a $300,000 increase for bands, >> right, >> for projects that are instead of issuing
long-term debt. >> Okay. >> And so those were projects that were started before today. >> Okay. >> And the issue is which projects are they? >> I agree. Okay. we approve the debt for
you know tax rate. >> They're not they're not the capital items on our capital listings that some other committee that I wasn't a part of agreed to. >> Like maybe it was a sewer treatment plant upgrades. >> Oh yeah. Last year muffin cooker. Yeah.
>> I suggest that we have gone through our list. It's getting quite late. Um, if people have concerns about the capital items, and I can understand that you might I don't want to sit here until 10:00 discussing them right now. Uh, so
I suggest that people submit copy me on it just because I'm nosy, but I would like to move on there. I I'll also just add that we
we we still have more I think review to go through with the DW director on uh the enterprise funds as well. >> We kind of spent a lot of our time on general fund impacts. >> Uh but we obviously want to be mindful
of >> the enterprise of funds and how that's impacting rates. So we we we may have changes in that. >> Yeah. >> There was no intention of solving all the problems tonight, but just raising
the flags where we needed them. >> So do you anticipate there will be additional changes in this budget before we meet in January? >> Yes. >> Okay. Can I reach it about setting up like a
folder so I can save each of these divisions? >> Yes. >> So we have the or second third. Great. >> Okay. I'll reach out when I have that set up. >> And at some point if we're going to I don't know if we're going to use clear gov or not, but if we're going to use clear gov, then I think we need a
training session. >> Yeah. >> I don't see that in the budget. Brian secrets >> an index to this >> every week. >> Will there be an index to tell you what
page to go to for DBW and the like? >> I should again >> the first Thursday >> in January. No, >> the A's late the A.
>> So, we're meeting Thursday this year. >> Oh, Wednesdays. Yeah. Okay. And every week starting >> January 8th. >> Um, are we meeting this coming Thursday the 18th? >> You're the only one. >> No, we are not.
>> Thank you. Um we'll our next meeting is January 8th and at that point we will be going through the entire budget um overview view basis and identifying those areas where we want more information and
setting up a schedule of which budgets we'll do each week if that's okay. >> Okay. I think >> motion to adjourn. >> We have other business. >> We have other business. >> Just I'm planting the seed. >> Do I have a motion to adjourn the fin
meeting? >> Second. Yes. >> All in favor? >> Thank you very much. >> Hey, that was fun. Let's do it again next year. >> I'll make sure you're invited to our meetings.
>> I'm excited. He's sleeping. >> We're just going to hit highlights, >> identify where we need additional information and set the schedule for when we're going to >> just it could be the first budget is general government or we don't need to
find something like that. Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Changes. >> She said she's back and we got liaison updates which we can probably do
briefly. She will produce a PDF >> updates. Let's see. >> Recording is going to be a little bit muffled if we have two meetings going on here. >> Hi folks. Right. And I'm assuming she'll highlight or something to change her.
>> I'm still trying to get home before. >> I'm trying to get home. >> Get out of here. >> Debbie won't be able to hear what we're doing. >> Uh John. >> Yeah. Yeah, the um SVA is on updates. DPW, this is kind of a quiet time for
them. They're working through uh bids that are coming in for the culvert right now. And uh POS design for uh the Lincoln Street. Well, the design of that, they're they're they're pretty active with that. That'll probably uh be finalized in uh
in January. But other than that, um just steady state library. We spoke about that the library had its meeting last Friday. They were concerned about these extra Saturday hours which are not in the budget for this year. That was a major topic of discussion
there and also a little bit about the uh the maintenance costs that we also spoke about 15 minutes or so ago. >> Um the historic district commission also met last week. There is a two family house that's going to be built on Ashlin Street right next to the uh Greek
revival. There are two Greek revival houses on either side, very stately houses. And on the right be after that and just before Crocker's boatyard is an empty lot and it's uh there's been an application for a two family house, Ed
Flemia. >> It's the first building he's built. Everything else has been a restoration. So that's that's obviously a major structure is going for public hearing for next month, but it's something in the works.
And um Council on Aging met uh the friends met Mary Miner today and we sang Christmas carols. >> It's very nice. >> Remember all the words.
>> All the words. I was right. So anyway, uh uh she met probably I don't know there were probably about 30 30 folks there and she met them all one way or another. Not tested on the names, but uh the discussion went very well. So she gave him a kind of a flavor of how
things are going to go when she starts next month. That's it. Uh planning board had their uh public forum. Uh they did I think they did a very good job presenting the different
zoning possible changes. There was some public input. Um three of us were there but uh >> yeah I think it went well. It would have been nice to see some more >> people who don't are our town hall rats.
Yeah, because I think it's like everything is going to come down to the end and then people going to have all these >> Nobody told me about that, >> right? Nobody. But I mean, I don't think it's I would say it's definitely not for lack of effort on the planning boards.
Uh, and they did a great job. So, um, our advisory met, I didn't get to go, but I did talk to Andy. Uh so they're starting work on revising the uh
regulations just kind of starting that. Uh there was some talk about the enterprise fund again and it seems like that's coming down to kind of maybe
to implement something like that. That's about it there. uh parks and wreck. Uh the basketball was up for running uh jingle bell walk by some feel that was most numbers they've had.
>> Oh, it was crowded. >> Nicely crowded. being a collection. Um, and uh, yeah, we're meeting Wednesday night. So, at this point, so
Cheryl, Santa Claus are making his phone calls to all the little kids in uh, Manchester uh, tomorrow. >> Very busy this time of year. of senior elves. >> Oh,
so those calls start at 4:30. >> They follow a very strict script. Lord uh no, you know, there's a list of there's a list of questions like, you know, we know everything about the kid
before we make so myself make. Uh so that's it for plaques and work as ZBA on Wednesday night. Hot on top of cleaning the uh Chicago building of course. Uh and uh so talking two weeks
on most a lot of end of year meetings this week. Bike and pet on Thursday, downtown improvement Wednesday and MBTA advisory boards Tuesday. Um full board meets. And then on Wednesday is the passenger rail
committee. So um I've been listening in on some of those MBTA meetings. Um plan to get more involved after the first of the year and do more advocacy especially around the climate resiliency. You know we need a plan so the tracks aren't underwater as well as advocating for
more frequent service and a blue line connection at Wonderland. Those were kind of my top three heres that based on what I've heard and talked to people. that would welcome u you know additional feedback after the rest of the year on those and
uh let's see was there anything else that was talked about the school um they're still working on their budget they they had their first full budget presentation um
representative of um level services budget. I think they've increased the headcount by.3 um which will replace um a contracted service. So they they found
somebody who can take a whole position um and that that will save a little bit of money. um discuss talked about what the school building is doing and I don't know what it is. Um
the board of health uh Matt discussed the inter municipal agreement and I have a copy of it and I haven't read it. Don't be talking about that um on Thursday morning.
Um, and I think you've heard enough about the FIN. >> So that I think is the liaison updates. Um, is there anything anyone would like to take out of the consent agenda? question because some of the um
applications were missing their um liability insurance for 2026. So I I I kind of sent a note to Tony and Debbie because it felt odd to approve the 2026 license when there were there was no insurance proof.
So did we get those? It was um Seabbze Crosby's Legion and Essex County Club. Uh we have Essex County Club and Crosby's. Uh waiting on three more. Uh but we'll likely get them to
She >> and we approve them subject to their receiving liability liability. >> I think so. >> Yeah. I wouldn't >> Yeah. They they all are very much understanding that if we don't receive them before the end of the
calendar year, they're jeopardizing their license. So, I'm sure we'll get them tomorrow. I feel by approving them contingent upon receiving those. >> Okay. So, then they won't receive the license that we're assigning tonight >> until
long as the legion just is in. Anything else? Is there a move to approve the consent agenda as amended? >> So move. >> Second. >> All in favor?
>> I >> I >> um I guess the next thing is the town administrator's report. >> Really? Uh not much other than budget. We've been it's been constant uh budget
prep for the last few weeks here. Uh it will continue. Um and we're we're making we're making good progress though. Um we I did want to mention that we are we're going to hold
host a Christmas tree bonfire this year. >> Excellent. >> Um at Masco in the parking lot. The date is Friday, January 9th, uh with a wind and rain date of Saturday, January 10th.
So, obviously, if it's the weather isn't working out either of those days, uh we're not going to do it. Um >> so, will the residents just bring their trees there or will >> No, DPW is collecting trees this year. That was already in place. Uh, so I'd
like, you know, just have NPW collect so that they can manage >> the size of the pile at Masco. >> Have they ever done that before? >> There was bonfires way back, but it wasn't that they had when they tore up the railroad.
>> Yeah. Bill Scott down there spraying it with heat. >> They had one uh up by the Mac about six, seven years ago. on the uh in the quarry. Yeah. >> area. Yep.
>> I'm just want to the parking lot. >> Yeah. >> Not a problem with the asphalt. >> Nope. It's it's it's actually better. It's easy clean up. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> But we'll be uh we'll be publicizing
that. Um >> would they had one on the beach? Did we take our vote yet? I know there was a motions. >> I think we did. >> Yes, we did. We took a voice. We took a >> a voice vote northern and identified.
>> Okay. Uh so we'll be publicizing the details on that. And then um also a Wednesday morning uh as a department head chemistry activity
and a a charitable contribution. Uh we're going as a team to uh pan kids to do a uh a shift at >> sorting toys. >> I went there last Wednesday. >> Yeah. um
>> if if you get a lot of boxes, it's a lot on your feet. So, >> uh so we're we're going as a team. Um and you know, it's a good team kind of fruit opportunity, but it's also good to give back this time of year, too. So, we'll be doing that Wednesday morning
and then we'll be back here uh in the early afternoon. >> Thank you very much for that. Motion to adjourn. >> Second >> cuz I'm all signed up. I don't have to self pass it. >> That's funny.
No reason to keep a fool >> for the pleasure of your company. That's not that pleasurable. >> No, that's why I said it. Yeah, >> everybody else is ready. >> She makes the talk.
>> Yeah. No, I get it. But I mean, you got to look at what you had to deal with. So, >> what is this renewal certification? I know what this is. What is that? Uh logic problem is if you didn't get
the problem >> there's a general rule. FYI, >> you're going to have to steal them from other, >> right? Otherwise, this is what you get. >> They look for
sure that's not going to happen. Sounds like it's going to >> Yeah. >> Christmas party on Thursday. >> Motion, but you didn't >> we didn't take a vote. All in favor? I >> I vote not.
>> Going home. >> I >> Yes. Christmas party Thursday. >> Oh yes. Bravo. >> Bravo. Pres. We won't Some of us won't be eating that much there.