register by the city life select board to order. >> Um, this meeting is being recorded. >> Yeah. >> Right. Call the uh call to order. Jeff, >> Ryan, Ann is here. >> John is here. >> Great. Um,
>> housing >> the Are there any public comments on non-aggenda items? housing here. I'm gonna turn this on. >> I don't see anything on that. >> Okay. Um
the there is no chairman's report. Um probably take we can take a look at the agenda items. Um I noticed that there was there are a couple that are supposed to
you've um due today that obviously need to be pushed off. Um is there anything that anybody wants to add to the agenda agendas? >> Action. I just think the um there's a couple of those that are TPD. We should have some target dates.
>> That's all I know. The um I'm curious as to the harbor audit one. I thought that one was completed, but maybe I it wasn't. Did I? I'm not sure what the status of that one is, but we should set a target date. And then the Ocean Street, I thought we had something we wanted to do in the spring. So,
again, I think we could just put a >> date a target date. Yeah, that would be my ask. >> Thanks. Okay, the next item on the agenda is a national grid
hearing. There's someone here from National Grid. >> There's no There's no They're not identified as uh doesn't say National Grid in the title of their >> Okay. They just didn't want me to yell at them for freeing my butt off last
weekend. If if there's anyone online from National Grid for the two hearings for Bennett Street, Mascanome Street, uh could you unmute yourself? >> I move to select what? >> I don't think we have anybody here. I
don't think we can open it. I don't think they have to be here. Oh, they don't have to be here. Okay. Is there any reason that they have to be here? We have all the information. >> No, they don't. >> And and so we didn't open to
>> ours is just >> Well, I appreciate that. I move the select board open the public hearing on the petitions national grid to install underground PVC conduit on Bennett Street and 27 Masanov. >> Second.
>> Jeff. >> Yes. Brian, >> yes. >> Kathy, yes. Ann says yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Are there any questions on the materials that were presented to us? Is National Grid aware of of um
our DPW regulations requirements? >> They are. They've been in communication with the DPW superintendent. Okay. Is there any other >> actually just one question? I mean some of these um the national I never asked this before but I probably should have
are they usually require that national grid put the street or whatever back to the way it was and there's a phrase at the bottom that says um basically the owner or permit shall maintain the trench pavement and settlement for one year. It's like a one-year
>> warranty or something. Who checks up on that to make sure that the pavement or the sidewalk whatever is being ripped up is in fact one year, you know, >> do we check after nine months and say, "Hey, this is >> not right or it is right."
>> Yeah. DP DPW does that. Yeah. If we see that >> it's heaving or there's a pothole or it needs to be touched up, uh, they'll reach out to National Grid and get them out there to fix it. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um,
>> is there a move to close the evidentiary evidentiary portion of it? >> I do that once. I'll do it again. I move that this floor to close the evidentiary portion of the hearing. >> Second. >> Jeff, >> yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> Kathy, yes.
>> Ann, yes. >> John, yes. >> Okay. I I move that the select board approve the national grid petitions to install underground PDC conduit on Bennett Street and to 27 Mascano Street.
>> Second. >> Jeff, >> yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> Kathy, yes. Dan, yes. >> John, yes. >> Okay. >> I move that the board close the public hearing. >> Second. >> John, >> yes. >> Ann says yes. Kathy,
>> yes. >> Brian, yes. >> Andre, >> yes. >> Okay. The >> motions. >> The next >> the next thing on our agenda is the um
joint meeting with the planning board. And that's not for another seven minutes. And >> you wanted me to just go it starts running through the U zoning. >> There may be somebody online who'd like
to hear it. So I would like to take advantage of that pause and ask people to >> Yay. Okay. Happy to do that. >> Okay. >> Consent agenda.
>> We could probably do the consent agenda. >> Is there a motion? We could we could also skip the uh co-consel discussion too. >> Okay. Um I Yeah, I just worry about jumping things around in the agenda. The consent agenda is the
easiest. >> Mhm. >> Are there any questions on the consent agenda? See here. Consent. I'm hearing none. Is there a move? >> Okay.
>> To approve the consent agenda. >> Let me I move that the select board approve the consent agenda. >> Second. >> Don. >> Yes. >> And yes, Kathy. Yes. Brian. >> Yes. Jeff. >> Yes. Okay,
well that took a minute or two. Thank you. I think it's close enough. Would you like to call your board to order? >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. Um, sure. I'll call the meeting of the planning board to order.
Um, attendance. We have Peter Morton here. >> Here, Chris here. Committ great answer. I think we have our two candidates here for the associate members. >> That seems like something that we could pro somebody could probably miss and not
feel. >> So um Oh, and Brian Fry just coming in. Um um so back start. >> Yes. Back uh at town meeting um back in April, we approved the um addition of
associate members to the planning board predominantly to deal with special permits and review. But special permits require supermajority which is five members. And when you have a long one like cell signaling, we were that happened between an election.
>> Um cell signaling I actually had to restart their permit with their they gave us permission to do that very graciously. But um as an example of why we need associate members so because some there are sometimes with illness or conflict of interest where a member of
the planning board maybe is or is away um can't attend some of the meetings. So tonight we have two candidates um Isabella Bates and Nancy Garvey. Um you've seen their material and they are the only two that have put for their name and we've actually been advertising
I think off and on since July. Nancy put her name in a long time ago. So um maybe we ask um them to just introduce themselves. And >> may I ask you a question? >> Absolutely. >> Would the would the associate members be expected to attend all planning board
members meetings? >> No. How would they know when? >> We will tell them. >> I mean, special permits would have, you know, with the um at least usually a three-week notice before they start. So, um and we would certainly invite them to
attend and and come up to speed. Um the other thing that's important is that special permits, there's a section of the zoning that's quite prescriptive about what you review special permits on. Um there's a it's not just a abstract how do you feel about this project a set
of rules um and uh and of course we have a planner so who can guide all of us so good >> so I follow up on that so as a matter of course all special permits you'll say I would like the associate uh folks to be here
>> they can be yes and it gives us some suspenders to have um nine people who for whom we can get a five member supermajority >> uh for the edification of the board here as well as the candidates. How often
does that happen? How many special permits it >> per year? >> We have a drought and then we can have a lot and um a lot of the zoning art changes that we're beginning to forward um anticipate a special permit for
greater oversight of things like certain things in the downtown zoning and senior housing. So I think we can expect um uh that there is a regular uh of these and they don't all take that long. A lot of times it's sometimes it
can be >> a meeting or two. You know we had to review the rotunda and the um docks and 208 summer street and cell signaling most recently. Okay. >> Uh I have a question. >> Sure. >> To refresh my memory
>> because maybe we discussed this educate now. >> Five members are elected to open. >> Okay. >> No. How many are we? The seven members. >> Seven members. >> Are we going to at some point have elections for associate members as well?
>> No. The u we that was discussed when we um proposed the zoning change and debated eccentrically. And the feeling was that it's a um it would be a good that there are a couple reasons to not to have them
appointed, not elected, which is actually about what the zoning says. But anyway, the reason we decided to have them appointed instead of elected is that they, you know, election scares a lot of people off and um and we have sometimes have trouble getting enough candidates to run for election. And this
is a good way to uh have people do kind of a a part-time planning board job and fill the positions and then maybe a training ground for people to decide that planning board is the most fun they've ever had and then that's it.
>> So it's a session >> but that that's already been decided in the zoning. It was decided as an >> concerned that at some point an appointed member might need the a vote that's required. Okay. uh you know as far
having some kind of there's a word I'm looking for >> bias or something >> not a bias but more of uh accountability that that we as elected members have to the public
as opposed to appointed members. >> Yeah. >> So that's my only concern. >> At maximum they'd be two out of five. So >> still get the scales. >> Anyway, I'm just a good recommendation from accountability here.
>> That part that's that was decided. >> So what will the terms be? >> Um so there are two terms. I think there's one is one year or that we're going to stagger them and I thought we'd flip a coin. Is that >> I don't know. I can't think of another way to do it. I think what we're going
to do tonight is appoint them both to uh >> the end of June and then we'll reappoint for the one-year term and the two-year term starting July 1. >> Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. >> Well, just because her um application is
first Nassie Derby, would you Oh, you have to stand up, but can't see me over there. Uh, I've lived in Manchester for 20 years, but um, and I had fun because I was on the planning board for six years >> under Carol Kitt. And she recruited me
when I was kind of a a little grumpy about a house that was being built behind us. And she's like, "Oh, this this obviously is bothering you. Why don't you join the planning board and you can really find out about the rules and the regulations?" And because I didn't know anything about um that. So
when we bought our house and the real nobody told us about this house coming up behind us. So just interesting information. So during the six years I had a baby. So it was like balancing my son and I was working full-time but I still managed to have fun. Um but I've
done other things in in the town. Actually just recently we just had our house on house tour for the Manchester Historical Museum. So that was kind of a meaningful experience just seeing 150 residents come through our house and um you know I just felt really good about
it just because we opened up our home to this community and um I have a son who graduated um from the high school and he's thriving now. So I'm really proud of that and the fact that he's lived in a town, you know, we've all lived here
in the town. Um I have a master's degree in education. I'm a GMAR teacher. Um, currently I teach skiing at Stone Mountain, so I have a part-time job, so I have a lot of flexibility in terms of my time. I'm a little busy in the winter, but um, but uh, you know,
primarily this is our full-time residency, so I'm here and ready to serve. >> Any questions from board? >> All done. Yeah. Are there any questions from the select court?
Do I have a motion? >> Uh, I don't think that's a sign. >> Nancy, I I move that the select board appoint Nancy Garvey. Oh, that is Well, >> you want to wait? >> Let's wait.
>> I was afraid one of you was going to fail. Well, come over here, too. Um, my name is Isabella Bates and, uh, we've been full-time residents here for 16 years, but I literally have been in Manchester,
part of all 82 years of my life. Uh, my mother even brought me in a laundry hamper from Denver, Colorado as a three-month-old to spend time in Manchester. I began uh attending planning board meetings when there was a great deal of
conflict going on in the planning board and I as a 45 year meditator felt that what I could do is to be a peaceful presence in the room taking slow deep breaths calming everything down and I began to see that
not only are there technical things that the planning board deals with but a great deal of emotion comes up around the house next door kind of thing like this. And so there's both the technical and the emotional that have to be dealt
with as part of the planning board. I can quite honestly say that I know very little about the technical aspects of the root the laws but I'm a very good listener and I think that I could absorb what's needed uh especially given a
little bit of warning about it and studying up and I would be very happy to support the planning board process in the town by being an alternate. >> Are there any questions from the planning? Are there any questions from the select?
>> Just one. It's u just your professional back previously. I am a voice and piano teacher and meditation teacher. >> That's the deep breaths in. >> Oh yeah,
>> you need that when you read bylaws. >> I was gonna say, "Show me an engineer and I'll show you someone who's played piano." The technical aspect should be um crazy. >> In the absence of any questions, I'll
try again. I move that the select board appoint Nancy Garvey and Isabella Bates as associate members of the planning board for terms to expire on June 30th, 2026. >> Second. >> John, >> yes. >> Ann says yes. Kathy, >> yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> And Jeff,
>> yes. Thank you both very joint a motion for the planning board to appoint Isabelle and Nancy Barbie. >> Uh let's all in favor >> yes. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Okay.
In June is there going to be another formal process? >> Yeah. Well, we'll figure that out. >> Cole. Okay. >> You can help us mediate that. Okay, we can move. >> Okay. Zoning. >> Zoning.
>> Can you share? Can I share? >> So, um, >> yeah, it should be. No, I don't see. Um, so I just, um, pull up together a few slides. Uh, Chris, you want to join me up here? >> Sure.
>> Um, so um, in preparation for town meeting, we've been working hard. We we were not to try to do a lot of debate about what our proposals are for town meeting. um happy to hear from you um tonight if you
want or um any other time. But um what we uh want to do is just brief you on the work we've been doing. Um we came a while ago to talk about this. So in your packet you have the list of possible articles downtown zoning senior housing
ins general bylaws changes um and perhaps ADUs and um uh in your packet I think there was something about hotels and last meeting we voted to wait on that. So, um, uh, so the, uh, we've done a bunch of outreach, forums, walks. The
website has frequently asked questions and drafts. Um, and then, uh, of course, we have future public hearings. So, let's start with down downtown. Um, as I think you know, we're trying to really have our zoning reflect what's there
today because our current zoning does not reflect much of what's there today. and um we've divided the a portion of the general district into two districts, the town center um and the harbor's edge. Um and the town we recently
removed the portion of Elm Street with the Mariposa and the bike shop from the town center for a couple of reasons. Um one, it already has a lot of parking. want to maintain those large those more generous parking requirements and also
if the central street culvert is done be very hard to make that case for commercial in that area at least for for a time. Um and so and a number of other reasons. So the town center goes from
basically to um seab breeze variety simplest term and the post office and the harbor's edge um goes from the um beach street hardware store Crosby's
Madam Hatam um the dry cleaner and Harbor Point and the distinction uh Harbor's Edge currently has uh significant and parking to meet their customer needs. Um where the others by and large do not. So in the town center
um we're proposing mixed use on the first floor um along the street up to a depth of 25 ft. Um the new uh retail is about 16 ft deep. What's the name of it? Um
>> shed just to give you um perspective. um with up to four residential units per lot. And that means a lot that complies with zoning being 6,000 square feet or other requirements. Um and those residential units can be above or behind
um or behind the first floor re uh retail or commercial space. Um there are setback requirements and height requirements um that reflect what's there on the ground today. Um and um
parking, we're requiring zero spaces for commercial and one for residential unit. Locate those parking behind the building. So we want to keep again have zoning reflect what's there today. Um which is largely buildings up to the street with parking behind. Um an
example of that is considerable parking behind Callus. Um you might not know that unless you look at it from Google Earth. Um, in the Harbor's Edge, uh, we are required, oh, I I should have said in the town center, if you want to propose
residential on the first floor, you would need a special permit. To your earlier question, in the Harbor's Edge District, we're requiring uh commercial on the entire first floor. The end. Um, and that reflects what's
there today. um residential above uh with a maximum of 15 units per acre. Um again that kind of mirrors the um MBTA zoning. So um and we will have a um affordable uh requirement for um I think
it's over five units. Um Oops, my uh mouse. Oops. Sorry. I'm can't do anything. Oops. >> Sorry. Not um in both districts the um
the the um uh if it's in the historic district today the historic district standards are uh remain and it would be reviewed by the historic commission and in the remainder the um design standards that we put into the MBTA zoning would
be applied. So, the idea here is to try to keep the look and the feel of our downtown um with some review um and you can review those design standards which talk about materials and um lengths of roof
lines and dormers and so forth. So, I'm going to we're going to run through all of these I guess and just sort of say here's what they are. So, I'm going to turn it over to you for senior housing because Chris is the senior housing expert. So,
Okay. So, I've been trying to push for senior housing bylaw for about I don't know eight years now. Uh about a third of the population of Manchester is 65 years of age or older and it's getting bigger all the time.
And we are the only town in the Northshore that probably in most of Massachusetts does not have a zoning provision to regulate senior housing. So, we just can't have any. Um, except I guess a single family housing
to make that a senior. I guess you could do that. But the kind of senior housing we're talking about are I guess we all know the bigger ones. Brooksby Village is a great example of a huge one. We're not talking about that here. We're talking about smaller clustered town
homes. Wham has got a couple of really great examples of Naples and that Wenham is I think about 55 condo units. Across the street from it is the Boulders which is much fancier
place with all three bedroomedroom condos for seniors. Um so we're talking about that kind of scale in Manchester. We're talking about no more than 10 units per acre. Uh which would be allowed in for the
independent housing part of this in any residential district in the town. You had an acre, you could ask for a special permit to provide uh up to 10 units associated housing on it. All the underlying requirements in the district
were still applied height setbacks and so forth. Um there's also assisted living which is housing which provides um services, meals, medical care, uh
that sort of thing. Uh and then that we're offering the same density requirement of 10 units an acre. We're excluding certain districts because we think the um be too much fizziness in say the D district to support the
system. We may change that in a couple years depending on what happens. But um and uh one of the best examples of assisted living is the John Bertram House in Salem which is 25 units of assisted living in an old historic house. And that's the kind of thing we'd
like to see definitely here as well. So who would benefit from this? Well, clearly seniors who want to downsize would have an option that they don't have now. when a lot of seniors as we know are retiring trying to downsize can't and have to move out of town which
is bad for them and it's bad for the town. The other people would benefit are generally um residents in town whose parents may be living in California somewhere that they'd like them to move
closer to home so they could uh again find a a place in Manchester. scale. >> So yeah, so we've also uh limited this the size of units to make them more
small scale to meet the town size limits for each each apartment type. Um we're also there's a local preference. So, um, people who have lived in town or currently live in town or have relatives
or are former employees, we all have preference, uh, when it comes to marketing these things. >> That's pretty much it. Any questions? >> Why don't we keep going through all the articles and then we can come circle back.
>> Um, the last uh big zone big zoning I guess is hotels and ins. What we're going to do is um define them because they're not defined um as uh transient occupants entrance might include a restaurant or uh recreation facilities
if that's a district and an inn is limited to 12 guests. Um and what we're proposing right now, last meeting um we decided to wait on regulating hotels just because um we had feedback that people were
worried about hotels. So we're going to start with ins 12 units um allowed in the town center, the new town district, downtown districts by right in the general district with special permit and a limited uh commercial allowed by
right. Um Are we allowed in any other districts? Think so. >> No, not right now. Um, and the idea here is that having that small in downtown helps also with that vibrance that we're trying to do. Um, we rec just to circle
back to downtown zoning, recognize that zoning is only one tool among many um that we need to to cobble together to keep our downtown vibrant. So perhaps converting a um a building to an inn is
would be would help to uh to um address downtown vibrance vibrancy. So um the next um proposal is a fairly simple amendment to the general bylaws uh to regulate driveway entrances. This
is um we used to the plane board used to review every single driveway entrance with a sidewalk. Um, we moved it to that responsibility to the DPW and moved the respon the u driveway entrance requirements to the general bylaw. But when we did that, we made it very
restrictive. Absolutely no exception process. Um, and it just needs to be rewritten to be more flexible, reflect the real world where sometimes with topography changes, you actually need two sight entrances, um, which are
prohibited. just flat out prohibited in the general bylaws and it was developed by uh Mark our resnic our planner and um DPW so um even though it's coming from us um and it will have a compendium uh regulations that the planning board
adopts um I guess last is we were asked by Sarah Melish to look at modifying the ADU the large ADU bylaw um that's 911 to,200
square feet that we um allowed um as of uh April 2025. Um the issue is that the large ADUs are not allowed in the D districts. Um that's the heater area. Um and the rationale when we proposed that was that
two family structures are already allowed in that district. Um, and Sarah Melish asked us to consider making a change to allow a the large ADUs in the D district. And right now we're still evaluating it. Um, one of the issues
that we think needs we we're kind of on the fence because it I think it's a little bit more complicated than just that. Um, one of the things that the two family requirement is that it be a single building and we're wondering if perhaps that's the thing that should be
changed. So, we're still talking about this one. Um so in summary, downtown zoning, senior housing ins and the general bylaw um change for driveways >> um possibly ADUs, but ADUs sometimes cause
lots of lengthy discussion, sit down meetings and we want to really be ready for that one. We're going to move it forward. So um comments question hopefully that um with the frequently asked questions has at least given you an idea and I know
many of you have attended our hearings and walking walking tours and all of that. So I'll stop sharing. >> Yeah, I've got a couple of questions here. Um, mostly really it's on the on the senior housing uh initiative. And
I've got a question about lot size and exactly how many lots are involved. We've got a lot of nonconforming lots in many of our many of our zones. And the way you've got it written down here is that the minimums one acre in BD and G districts and two acres in AC and E
districts. My question would be, how many lots in these districts meet that requirement? Yes. >> And what is the total amount of acreage compared to the run amount of acreage meets that compared to the total acreage there? Are we putting something in place
that is going to apply to like two lots and that's it? >> That's a very very good question >> because I I you know you want to make a difference but I don't know >> we haven't really finally decided on that. One of the options is to allow a half acre as a minimum.
>> I I saw that on the slide that's not on your draft. >> Yeah. Uh and maybe you got maybe you don't know >> for five units and that's more in keeping with the kind of scale of the town. Five units would be that there are plenty of those kinds of buildings,
residential buildings around. Um 10 is a little bit bigger but still would fit in an awful lot of places but there may not be enough of them. I think you're exactly right and that's >> well there may be too many. I you know I'm not even sure what the right number is but I'd like to see what the numbers are. Well, I don't think every every
eligible acre of land is going to get senior housing. >> It's just a question and I mean it >> it involves every area A through G. >> So I think the point is if we really want senior housing we should make it
easier not harder to to to build them. >> Okay. All right. >> They do have a special permit. So the you know if people are concerned about staff or trash or you know hours of
operation or lighting or >> or even an inappropriate place are these answers that you'll try and come up with >> you got time. Yeah. >> Not a lot but you got some time. >> Okay. Uh that's my first question. Um,
second question. You've got 1,200, 900, and 600 for two, one, and zero bedrooms. >> I'm not sure where those numbers came from. And just looking at people who are downsizing, people who are downsizing are downsizing
from larger houses. And to fit something into 1,200 square ft, and I don't have a real good feel for 1,200, but I'm wondering, is that too little? it would be like 2,000. I I I don't know.
>> Um those are standard apartment sizes. Um so we tried to just stick with sort of the >> that's the term downsize. >> Downsizing is liberating, John. And and sometimes once you get going, >> well, it's >> well
she'll clean the whole thing up. We can't really let the boarders boulders >> I have been in those. Those are not 12,200 square feet. They are huge and they cost a million and a half dollars. >> Yes. >> And we don't think that's appropriate. >> I I'm not saying that is although you put that in as an example.
>> Yeah. Of course there's a bunch of things. >> It does. >> I think the issue is we are hearing o and feeling over and over that we want to have a a range two things. wanted we want we keep saying we want a range of of price points and the way you sort of
keep prices low there's making them big a affordable or you restrict how big they can be because the market you know price and size are correlated um so we're trying to respect that and say
this is really about the the smaller units the the little a less expensive units Um, and we'll see if the market tells us that that's a really bad idea. But, um, we're not trying we're not trying to
build a big, uh, residential con residential clusters with three bedroomedroom 4,000 square foot. >> No, I'm not changing the bedroom size or anything. I just general living space. >> To that point, I think you'll you'll be surprised at how big 12. >> That's a big
Yeah. >> But I I don't know. But the the typical person may be downsizing from 5,000. >> Downsizing from 5,000 stay. >> All right. >> Oh, they got another house. >> They're not looking. >> They got another house. But still, I'm just wonder.
>> I'm on a roll here. Can I ask another question? >> Sure. >> Okay. Uh, you've got 10 units per acre, >> independent living and assisted living. The example Bertram House, how many units? >> 25. Okay. It's a lot more than it's
that's not sitting on an acre. >> No. >> I'm just wonder assisted living because you're needing assistance and somebody who's not far away to be able to help you. I'm not sure that density is high
enough for somebody to say I can build assisted living here at 10 units. It's maybe a little tight. So there is one in this actually uh nine units in an old ranch house that they modified
um which again seems to work and often you see these communities where there'd be three or four of them scattered around within you know a half mile of each other and they all get served by a single management uh operation >> but they're all in separate little
>> yeah they have to be in separate lots or something because >> and I can understand. Well, that's a rather complex arrangement. >> Well, it is, but it's something we should consider. >> Don't forget, we've been talking about this for five years. So, we have heard people >> Yeah. longer.
But we have, you know, people have said they're worried about um, you know, a 10 unit um, facility next to their single family home as feeling that it's so that's why there's special permit review and that's why we've capped it at that
density. >> Respect what we've heard. >> A two unit property of 6,000 square feet is around 10 10 units per acre. With all of these things, there's a continuum of
um whether it's density or parking or setbacks that that we hear. And so we try to strike a a middle bound. >> So when we're talking, just to be clear, the 10 units per acre, we're talking about a midrise or something like that. We're not talking town houses. >> Oh, town houses would be >> 10 acres.
Mine is 11. I probably >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> As I recall that under again my experience is eight per acre by the state and 18 per acre if you're going up on on 40b. So that's where I was drawing
that comparison. >> And again we're talking about smaller units. Yeah. >> I had a question. Um just a clarifying question on the senior housing. Um, could you explain the difference between what you're describing as independent
living versus any property just being age restricted to 55 and over? What what's the difference between the two or is there a difference? >> There is no difference. >> Okay. So, it's another label for just deed restricted 55 and over. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And no services. >> No. Yeah. No services. Just deed
restricted. Okay. >> Newport park. >> Right. Okay. And then the other question I had was um I couldn't quite figure out from the language if like a conversion of an existing complex would be allowed
if if it met all the other requirements would I don't know if any such properties exist maybe not but um would that be allowed? Um, so you remember um down summer street is a property called
>> Oakwood Street, >> which was kind of what we're talking about. >> Well, that was assistant for sure. >> It was definitely assistant. My mother-in-law lived there >> and she needed a lot of assistance. >> But that's the kind of facility we're talking about. That gives a great
example. I don't think they're more than 15 units in >> but I mean if somebody had like for example you have the um some of the buildings on Elm Street right >> that at the end of Elm Street
>> house >> yeah the powder house would it be possible to convert sure >> some of those okay so it's not like >> new constru you know not everything's new you could repurpose some of those existing you're saying Well, we're thinking of some of these estates,
>> right? >> You know, if they were being sold, they're going to be turned down. This be a good >> Okay. >> So, the next step is that you're going to go back and still finalize these. Then we return uh return to you. You
vote to authorize us to put them on the warrant and we hold a public hearing. Um, and that happens pretty soon this month, >> the 17th. >> The 17th, which is your next meeting. Um, because I apparently can't read. Um,
what is the relationship between the uh, senior housing and um, capital A affordable? That is to say no. >> Okay. So what we're saying I guess I should mention that we're saying for every five units one of them should has
to be afforded this inclusionary zone. So if you have 10 units, >> you have you'd have to have >> and then you get an extra. >> And if you wanted to do more than that, the plane board could consider additions. >> My concern is with the
complexity, frankly, of mainta of establishing and maintaining um senior affordable capital A affordable housing. I I'm afraid you're going to cap every development at four units.
>> It's possible. I hope not. We uh you know, as part of the NBTA zoning, we had that feasibility study done to see if >> if 20% was a reasonable number, and it turned out it was fine for Manchester. So, we're banking on that. >> Okay.
>> If it turns out not to be the case, we'll then come back to you in a year. Is there is there any incentivizing for the affordable or just you hit this number you're going to have to build something affordable to go? >> So a little bit of both. We're saying for every five you have to do one and if you want to do another one
would consider it if it weren't affordable. >> So they could get six out of >> they could get six and then >> but then two would be affordable. >> Then two would be affordable. >> Then you know my concern is cost of construction. >> Yeah. >> And and amiz you know the land acquisition costs. So basically what
you're saying is right now you're going to uh one is just going to basically cover the cost of construction if they're lucky or the other four have to help offset the cost which then is not a a driving factor for any developer who wants to get
>> I guess yeah that's you know I think that we have to be prepared. Yeah, sure. >> Go to five. But if they can go to nine and there's just one. >> Yeah. >> Four, nine. So those are kind of the cut offs and then they have to build another
report. Okay. >> Because we don't want to create too much more pressure on the need for shipping. >> I understand. Yeah. We're we're growing the uh denominator. >> Yeah. >> Mrs. Bates, did you have something?
Well, I I just wanted to say that a great num I've been going to Brooksby Village as a hospice volunteer for 15 years and I've been in almost all their configurations there. And most of the people at Brooksby Village came from
houses and they've managed to squeeze themselves down. And in the assisted living, many couples live in a single row. >> You do what you not. So they still like each other.
>> Now that's a minute. >> Are there any other questions? >> I just had a question about the ins. Um on your slide it said parking spaces per guest, but should it say parking spaces
per room? >> Probably should say per room. >> Yeah. an employee is gonna have to find, you know, some >> We can look at we'll we'll look at that. Yeah. >> That's why he's here. >> Congratulations.
>> Uh I will thank uh Chris and Sandy ran me through this a couple of weeks ago. So I appreciate the time you spent there with us. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate your time, too. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you very much for um taking Thank you board for coming. Um, with
that, if there's nothing else, I'll I'll uh adjurnn our board. >> Okay. Make a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Okay. Both members have to vote.
I got sworn in. I guess >> you'll see each other again. Next on our agenda is the cocon discussion and appointment. I think >> so. We have um I double check the the reason I bring this in front of you is
uh our general bylaws state that it's the select board's responsibility to appoint town council on one-year terms. Mhm. >> Um so I think we have to get into the habit of doing that in July. Um we have
had uh KP Law represents the town as town council. Um what we have found and not due to um not really due to a uh poor use of legal
assistance, but we've had a we had a lot of larger cases this year. Um and our legal budget is ran pretty hot. We we've spent a lot of funds um this year. So um
Pierce Davis is another law firm that offers municipal counsel. Um what my recommendation is that we appoint Pierce Davis as co-consel. Uh so we'll still use KP law uh for most of our um you
know core needs as far as any type of litigation uh town meeting things of that nature. Piers Davis can assist us with some of the more um day-to-day legal assistance tasks that we that we might have. Uh
their rate is about $50 cheaper per hour. Um and they have had experience uh through Maya and Kataris I believe. >> Yeah. >> Um there Sedwick >> presenting uh representing the town of
Manchester by the sea. So um I had a similar setup um in the hot I spoke with KPU law. We're looking at other um cost-saving um options as well. uh but you know we don't want to sacrifice you
know the the uh legal guidance obviously we're not doing that um but there are there are a number of things that we do uh for instance if a department is signing uh bringing new software into
their department >> that comes with a contract um those are things that I would typically use like Pierce Davis for rather than KP Law for those are simple type of uh legal review things that you know we don't need to be spending close
to $300 an hour. So that that's really most of this is about trying to control a lot of our legal costs uh here in town. So with that, uh Dan, could you also uh introduce your partner and speak a little bit about Pierce Davis? And
>> yeah, uh my name is Dan Script. Tony and I have been working together since 2019 since he first became town administrator in the haunt. Uh this is Adam Sims, partner at Pierce Davis. Um I brought him along because he I've represented Manchester with the past on a number of cases.
Um and is pretty familiar with the town, but in terms of the day-to-day stuff Tonyy's talking about, that would fall on me because I've been doing it for what seven, eight years now with not not and I'm on my four time administrator now. Tony was a third. And um and you know, it's funny Tony says it's $50
cheaper. And I never thought about the rate because I just enjoyed doing it. I just I just I came like you came out for you. >> I think about the rate job. I just do the work, right? Um if you're a New Jersey guy, I grew up in
Pennsylvania down in Glenidge and I grew up in a very small town. So I enjoyed doing work. So when I quoted my rate to um Jeff Shelgrren, you know, two TE's before you, I never thought about 195 at the time it was. And I just thought that sounds good to me. Uh because I just
enjoyed doing it and it it's just just gotten better and better. And I never changed my rate. I mean for a decade I was just I never thought about it because I didn't think of his work. I know it sounds odd. I just thought of it as I I live in a so a lot of the cases that came through my desk or issues I think my desk. Oh yeah, I know this guy.
Talk to him. Um so I and I developed into a bit of a a specialty in terms of administrative or municipal law outside of just litigation. Um, and it's funny. I could Brian so I can hear your ZBA voice coming out through those questions
and the bylaws. I'm thinking, okay, that's a ZBA. I recommend that those questions. >> You've done your homework. >> What's that? >> You've done homework, too. >> Oh, I'll bet. I'll bet. So, um, so then we just increased the rate to two something about just before you left actually.
>> Um, and again, it was just because I enjoy doing the work and I still do. Uh, I I enjoy it very much. Um, it's funny because I I was snuck into your Zoom meeting when you were considering the hiring of Tony and you described all these things. You know, he's he he
delegates well. He he has a strong uh uh knowledge of coastal community issues uh a strong graph fiscal analysis and enable is very approachable and we thought darn that's exactly why we want to keep because me and the the boss when we were considering a new person we
thought to ourselves well that's exactly why we love Tony and and you know it's it so I'm still considering who made the best hire in two 2025 the select board of Manchester or the the the Patriots we're going to find out on Sunday whether who made the better I don't see any rings your fake.
>> We'll find out on Sunday. >> I'll be I'm okay with Vel taking that. You know, want a victory on Sunday. >> That'd be nice. So, um >> but we worked on a lot of um we worked on some uh housing court issues with
with tenants of the town owned. Um some property that we actually managed. Um we worked a lot of day-to-day things, general bylaw. um review working you worked closely with the planning board on a lot of
different articles as well. >> We got our MBTA and community bylaws just just approved by the state. So that was a lot of work. I see ADU comes up here quite a bit that that came through um two years ago. There's a lot of work we did. I remember sitting in town hall in the basement for you know nine o'clock at night for an hour going
through the milestones with you. >> Uh and a hot ticket now is short-term rentals. I'm sure you guys are hitting that too. We're getting a lot of folks that are just trying to Little Mahan is is a hot topic now. >> Um trying to skirt the issues and now now it's we've gotten beyond the the
drafting of bylaws, passing the bylaws, getting it through the AG's office. Now we're into enforcement, which is a whole other animal. So So that that's an interesting next thing going on. I hear senior housing come up quite a bit today. We have no designated senior housing in the high, but you know, Mark has always been fighting for that sort
of thing, our former select chair. Uh and just this morning, um we were in front of the SJC. I say we as in Niha. We're in front of the SJC fighting against Nor Eastern for the the big um easement that we took from their their campus up there in Little Na or Big
Nant. Um I don't have a lot to do with that, but that just an existing unfortunately and sometimes unfortunately, but that's a huge one that's going to set some precedent. I'm pretty sure that Judge Clarkson is going to get tipped and it'll come out in our favor. But um that that's something that
would go to something like KP Law or in this case Dreamberg Tro because they're specialist in that thing. I would do more than the day-to-day stuff. I'm not in any of any uh facet trying to take KP's place. I respect them. In fact, I would sometimes resort to them say Tony that's that's beyond my bail. You got to
take that to to Lake Blake or something like that. >> And I have no problem saying that because I'm not about to put the town or a client in a spot where I can't confidently advise them on, you know, a lot of open meeting stuff came up. public record. I mean, well, especially with one of your former co-orkers, it
came up all the time. >> Um, and you know, they know Staten, so >> um, uh, >> busy >> public records. >> That was that was good. >> Those are these are like the types of things that come up constantly that, you know, take a lot of time. They're
tedious. And, um, I think we could use it. And then I'll just say that you've also, you know, on on issues that have either been deferred to KP law or worked with KP. It's always been a smooth um operation working
alongside with them. >> Adam is very familiar with all those folks over there at KP. I mean, he's also Adam is also a former a general such as as such are a lot of KP guys and guys over there too. So there's some of there's some common sort of themes going on between our two firms
for sure. Um, but at end of the day, yeah, there you come to me with a big, you know, wetland protection act issue. Say, you know what? You got to talk to Miss Katie Quest about that. I'm not going to go into that because that's not what I get into it. And I don't stuff either. So, it's more of a day-to-day
sort of stuff almost like more boring stuff, but >> and stuff that needs to be addressed, needs to be done. >> So, uh, something near and dear to my heart, purchasing sales and condo docks. Uh this is something that uh you would uh we would refer to them as opposed to
KP. Um no we used to for real estate real estate law we use Sharen Everett as well uh in Hunt um where I used where we worked closely with Dan was on the eviction process uh
like the house of housing law >> enforcement >> on that same I can tell you that this is great it's a great question because I took so the coach housing law had 11 units on it independently standing homes three bedrooms all this uh so I took the
planning board you know I took not our planning board through the ANR process we got through that pretty smoothly we had a we had engineering help us but then when it came to transactional work that's when you turn to KP more the big procurement
questions and the big um deed restricted questions as someone mentioned deed restrictions uh that went to Amy I think it was Amy that did all that stuff so I think that's an example of where we worked very well together transitioning from one phase to the other and we are down to I think one unit left. Certainly
one because that's still in litigation. Um but I think that's it. I think I think all other 10 are sold off. >> That was a huge victory on Tony's part because that was a huge process because you had a lot of folks older folks that said hey listen this could be used for senior housing affordable housing. Well
the fact is town need looked at all that and they decided on something different. So, >> how big is your firm? How many attorneys have you got? >> Well, okay. So, that's that's a interesting question. We go nationwide. Um, the municipal firm though, the just
the municipal arm of it, eight, 10. >> About 10. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, >> so, and we represent cities and towns across the Commonwealth. Um, we go out as far away. I mean, we pretty far out west quite a bit. >> Cover the whole state. >> Okay. Well, I mean, that sounds for day-to-day stuff. That's I know KP
they've got specialty groups do specialty stuff. You are not those guys. >> No. Absolutely. >> You would be the first to admit that. >> So when Tony calls me, he talks to me and pretty much only me. Um so that's probably the big difference is I'm not going to hand Tony off or any one of you to an associate or someone or even Adam
for that matter. Adam, but but although they're great sounding boards for sure, but I would be the guy that would be answering the questions and taking the um the the heat. >> You mentioned that there's a part of our
BIOS that says council in July and I have to confess. I haven't read that. Does it specify one council? It it um I have it up here.
So it just says select board member shall annually uh on or before the first day of June >> appoint a member of the bar in good standing to serve as town council for the term of one year or until his successor is appointed enters upon the
performance of his duties. So it doesn't um they shall likewise fill any vacancy in said office for the unexpired term and may employ special counsel to assist the said town council whenever in their judgment necess
necessity there are horizons. It's common language as they >> so having you decide this goes to this firm and this goes to that firm. It sounds as if that was anticipating that the there were is a person who is the
town council and um that person sends out the do we have a reason to think about changing the bylaw is what I'm leading up to. >> I don't I don't think it's necessary. I don't think it's um I mean we a lot of
our bylaws uh this one included could probably use some cleaning up. I'm certain I'm sure this uh this was amended in 1974. So it predates the town of ministry around
>> um predates me as a human being. Um >> sorry. >> Um but I think it's fine. I think the language here is is is fine as is for us to be able to operate this way. Yeah. So we we can we can you we can approve a
co-consel and you can delegate the jobs. >> I think I think I think that would be a standard role for a town administrator >> and they'll discover that we are being sued by one of our litigations. >> Right. Right. >> An example would be in the haunt um Tony
Tony hired green well I think Tony through KP law hired Greenberg Troek to deal with the northeastern taking exactly he would be special counsel I think. So that's where the the bride the breed I'm coming into happen. It's very common to happen all the time. >> Yeah, I think it's really smart to have
multiple suppliers. It's multiple supplier partners for different needs. So I think sounds good. >> What's the annual casino night? I want to be part of that. >> That's your
>> What is it? We hold a casino night at the Sons of the American Legion every year for uh raise money for scholarships. >> We have a we have a tree a Christmas tree burning festival every year. >> I wonder who just did that. >> We just did that. That's a lot of fun.
You guys should consider that. >> We just did it. >> We just So do we. I think >> Yeah, >> that's a lot of fun. >> Yeah, you guys love the fireman a lot too. Are you ready for a motion? >> Yes. >> I move the board appoint Pierce Dares
and Peritano as co-consel for the town addressed by the sea for a term to expire on June 30th, 2026. >> Second for an amendment. >> Yeah. 27 >> 27 friendly amendment. >> Oh yeah.
>> And make it May 31st. >> Yes. Yeah. Because it says the first day of June. May 31, 2027. >> Is there a second? >> As amended, >> will you accept?
>> Yes. >> I'll second that. >> Further discussion. >> Don, >> yes. >> Ann says yes. Kathy, >> yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> And Jeff, >> yes. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right.
>> Are you being very persuasive today? >> Thank you. I look forward to seeing your >> um the next item on the agenda is the sustainability committee appointment of Donna Brewster.
>> Would you like to talk tell us a little bit about why you're interested in that committee? Well, my background is science. Um, and so I guess I wanted to be able to help the community. Um, with my
background, science, chemistry, environmental engineering, I thought it'd be a good fit. Um, I've gone to a couple of their meetings and it's something I'm very interested in looking at the water quality around here and
know seeing how I could um help the community. >> John, >> good. No, I'm happy you raised your hand. That's that's great. Thank you, Don. >> Yes, I'm also very happy you raised your hand. I think you're well qualified for
for that committee. Thank Well, I just see how much all of you do on a daily basis. I I see it and I I figured, you know, I I could help out. I could do stuff more than just being on the Fourth of July committee. >> Brian,
>> thank you. No, I'm good. >> Yeah, I'm good. >> I did meet I I did meet with Donna a few weeks ago. uh went through the interview process and uh as she mentioned, you know, her environmental engineering
background uh high school um chemistry teacher for 30 years. We talked a lot about our upcoming um trash >> uh you know waste waste curbside
collection issues that are are uh on the horizon for us as far as going to automate potentially having to go to automated collection and that was something that was of interest to hers too to uh help us with that process. Also,
>> one thing I'd like to see is uh increase the composting in the community. That's that's a big one. So, that's >> it's also financially really good. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's just like no.
>> I'll talk to you about that offline. How's that? I got some ideas for you. >> Get rid of the fruit flies. I'm all on board. >> I am. >> All set. >> Yeah. I move that the select board appoint Don Brussa to the sustainability committee for a term to expire on June
30th, 2028. >> Second. >> John, >> yes. >> Yes. Kathy, >> yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> And Jeff, >> yes. >> Hey, well, thank you. >> Thank you again. Thank you for all you doing.
>> You skip over >> No. Well, I did, but I do that. Um, sorry. Um, the police chief recruitment process overview and timeline.
>> Okay. So, uh, chief is here with us tonight. Uh we we spent some time uh reviewing this and with the chief's uh up retirement coming up at the end of June, we'd like to get
started on the hiring process for his replacement. Uh the process that I sent out um to all of you a couple weeks ago is is about a three to four month process. So that times us up with
hopefully making a decision and a hiring uh before Chief Fitzgerald retires. So there may be some overlap um and then some begging uh for uh
for continued assistance after he retires. Um, but this is a pretty standard process I would say as far as uh recruitment goes for this type of position. Um, we want to make sure that it's a
fair and consistent process. Um, that uh candidates are evaluated consistently and fairly and that we maintain transparency throughout. Um we have a advertisement schedule of 3 to
four weeks review of the applications that are received for one to two weeks. Uh we would then ask uh those that we the top candidates that we would like to uh interview uh to to uh respond to a
questionnaire. Then there's the interview process of two to three weeks. Um there's a possible uh public roundt discussion. I I have that on here, but I don't necessarily think it's ne it's uh
100% necessary. We can cut that out, especially based on timing. And then there's um the final selection of one to two weeks. And then depending on the uh candidate that's hired, there may be a
um you know a time frame uh from when they accept the position to when they can actually start and of course um any if there's any contract negotiations too that would that would be there.
Uh what I really wanted to do was with the chief um just have a quick discussion. Chief, do you have any comments on on >> the only comment it's not or concern more of a concern is I think this is a uh you know like a well structured
approach. Uh but when we get to the questionnaire phase, the only suggestion I would make is to have some maybe some outside local chiefs come in and evaluate those essay or or responses or written responses if just because they
have a probably a strong idea of what a good fit would be for Manchester. >> I think getting an outside perspective is a peer review, if you will. >> Yeah, I think that's helpful. Um,
when I talked to Tony about this, um, I really like the process that we used to hire Jake. I thought that worked pretty well with a maybe a little tweak to it. Um, the one thing I and I think this lines up pretty well. I I I don't think
we did the public round table discussion for >> no >> the fire chief and and then so I'm I'm not like I said, I'm not sure that's really necessary because this is a direct report to Tony. It's not like a town administrative position that we >> Yeah. >> where we're the ones doing the interviewing. Um you have a direct
report opening. This person needs to, you know, not just meet the needs of the community is going to meet your needs as well. Your decision that we would, you know, hopefully support. Um the one thing I was a little bit uncomfortable with and Brian, you and and Todd were in
the U interview panel with me. I I I wasn't crazy about the entire makeup of the interview panel. we had some subordinates in there to the fire chief and I I've never seen that done in a panel. Um, you know, usually there's like a meet and greet where subordinates
can meet, you know, their potential boss um but not interview them, you know. So I that was the only thing I thought was a little >> my guess on that was that the and maybe the chief can uh chime in on this is that we were going
through a rough patch with the uh the patrol. >> Oh, I'm not saying they shouldn't have been >> unions at that time. So we felt that they were stakeholders and they wanted to be involved. >> Yes. I I I don't situation >> I don't disagree but not at the same meeting. It's it's a different level of
conversation. And so that's his point. >> Yeah. I I don't I would not advise doing I think the makeup of the panel is important. You need to get feedback from you know different constituents and >> the choose idea being panel
>> but I wouldn't I wouldn't suggest doing subordinates at the same. >> So I guess that leads into my question. How is this panel going to be made up? >> I would pick that panel. Um, I would I would if the chief is willing, I'd like
the chief to serve on that panel with me. Um, I'd like our human resources uh director to be a part of that panel as well. I'm a little cautious about how how big that panel gets. Um
I think I think having uh having too many people on one side of a table during an interview process can can um interfere with you know the true goal of the of the meeting. Um so for sure myself hopefully the chief um I think
Jake could fit a good spot on there as well. >> I was gonna say Jake should be on the Yeah. >> So try to keep it to four, you know. >> Yeah, that makes sense. I just was one or two. >> My feelings are well known, so I agree
with you. Yeah. >> So, really, you are you're the committee chair. You're driving this whole process. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You need to get the information that you need, however you need to get it to make your decision. >> Yeah. So, I just wanted to, you know,
>> if if I may just briefly, um, when we interviewed >> you, um, we did the poll group one candidate at a time and we did that, um, because a round table gives the last to speak a big advantage.
U, so I would just drop that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm I'm okay with that. I I you know I wanted to make sure that I put a lot in here uh for you guys to take a look at. I'm happy to peel that
back. Um I think this is a pretty thorough process and um with your approval of that I can get it started >> in a couple weeks. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for this. >> Thanks Steve.
Thanks for being here. >> A box of tissues. >> Good night. >> Um for high school winter track >> uh he reached out late uh late last week on Friday and said that tonight is their
senior night uh dinner. So we're going to skip that tonight and uh >> move it to next week. >> So ju just for when we do have the discussion >> uh what I would like to understand are specifically what events are they
practicing for or would they like to practice in the cemetery because that >> I think it's just track. >> No, but track has different events. So like I'm familiar with >> I don't if it's just practice running they're just running any distance. each country is different than if they're doing sprints or they're doing the 400
around the >> country. >> He made it sound like the loop was, you know, they were going to be doing, you know, >> I think that's because it makes it easy for him because we're going to do three miles. >> So anyway, some a little specificity about >> which members of the track team, you know, is it the cross country, the long
distance, or is it the shorter distances? That makes a difference in in how you the cemetery. >> I was a track man. >> Fair enough. Okay. So, that goes on. Let's just >> public health. >> Yeah.
Um >> the board of development has agreed that this is u acceptable to them. It will bring some services in that we don't have to pay for. >> Free is good.
>> Free is really good. Um >> including the person who's managing this. >> Yes. The whole >> everything. Buster, the head of the buster. Very impressive. And I think she does fairly
enough between. So I suggest it's unless anyone's particular objection. >> I will uh move I I move that the select board authorize the town administrator to sign the public health excellence
grant inter intermunicipal agreement with the city of Gloucester. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Uh yes. >> Okay. the record ruler effect that everybody said yes.
>> Um, now I am >> leazison. >> Yeah, I realize it's leaison, but we have someone sitting here and I don't see >> that. So, um, Mr. Glosski is going to speak when we get to the, uh, annual
town meeting articles number nine. >> Ah, okay. because you've got nothing better to do with your time. >> Okay, let's let's get through the liaison updates. Go ahead. >> Uh just a couple of things. Library,
they were in front of the finance committee uh week and a half ago or so. We're going to have Saturday hours or at least it's going to be on the agenda or on the warrant. um they needed $8,500 to do that right now in Saturday hours in the summer and the library has been
closed for the weekends in the summer. Now they will have several hours on Saturdays and uh so they got that that put into the budget. >> Let me can I can I interrupt for a second on that just to put a just to uh pump the break a tad on that?
>> Sure. >> Uh the finance committee voted to support that request >> to support that should I say. Uh we still have union negotiations to go through, but of course it needs to be supported at town meeting if it's included in the final
>> there's no reason just to put it in the budget if we can't get the personnel to support the extra hours. So >> So the horse Yeah. >> Yeah. I just don't want to announce that they are are definitely having uh weekend hours yet. >> Uh but we're on that track. >> We good.
>> We do need to make our recommendation. >> Yes. Okay. And uh 800 water meters in so far. So they're about a third of the way, a little bit more than that. So and progress is going pretty well on that.
I'll hold my senior senior comments. That'll come later. >> Um well, we hear from the planning board, so we won't get into that. Um Harbor Advisory finished going over the harbor regulations. Um,
no major changes there. I don't think it's a lot of cleaning up language and getting stuff to conform with the state and things of that nature. So, right now it's going to legal and I don't know,
see at some point after that, I guess. Um, Essex Tech, I sent you guys a lengthy email, so I'll just cover that. We did get 10 minimum slots for aortionment for the lottery.
And that is based on what they do is they take all the eighth grade students in 17 districts and they put that number together and then they figure out there's 478 seats for in district kids and they
figure out what percentage of your eighth grade students would be in that 478 seats. So that puts us at 10 right now. So that number could
change over time as our uh population changes. And uh yeah, I don't know if you guys have any questions. I'm sure >> that's 10 new seats >> each each year. >> 10 guaranteed seats.
>> How many? >> We have 10 total over the four grades right now. >> So that's a lot less. Oh, it's going to be a lot more. >> It will be a lot more. It's a lot less right now. >> It's a lot less right now. >> So, that's going to be 10 just for the freshman class.
>> Well, it could be. You don't >> So, actually, John asked a good question. So, he asked me if we have 10 seats and 10 applications, does that mean everybody gets in? Technically, yeah. But that doesn't mean
by October of that year that you're going to have 10 people there because kids apply and then they either no show or they have, you know, they have
friends, they don't want to leave their friend. You know, there's reasons why they don't they apply and they don't go. And then some kids get there and say, "Oh, it's not for me." You know, whatever. for whatever reason. But so right now we will hold on to
those slots. So say you have 10 slots, you have 10 apply and two no show. You'll hold on to those right now that written let me give a better example >> please. >> If you had Yeah. If you had 10 you got
10 slots. Say you had 12 applications. >> Okay. eight show and two no show. You would hold on to those two into a second round. >> So you could keep filling that and then
a third round would be all the applications against all the unused seats in all the districts. >> All right. The qu question I had is yeah say you've got 12 applications. How do you determine which 10 come in? That's our problem. That's a lottery.
>> That's a lottery. A Manchester lottery. Well, >> because we get 10 seats and we're going to take those 10 seats. >> We don't pick it though. They pick it. >> That's my question. Okay. So, >> they actually bring a third party in. >> Okay. >> To do the lottery. So, it's
>> Oh, it'll be a lottery on those 12 to see which 10. I mean, that's not a sophisticated event particularly, but >> Well, not for us, but there's 17. I mean, you know, there's some districts have >> Yeah. But a lot >> 100 applications for 300 seats.
>> So if you have more applications than you have slots that you're entitled to, it's a lottery of some sort to determine which kids are going. >> If we have 10 seats and 12 people apply, how are those 10 out of the 12?
>> Which 10 collected? >> So that's the lottery. So what happens is they actually >> each stu each application gets a number. >> So there's not even a name tied to it. >> Okay. >> That number is furnished to a third
party that handles the lottery. So you know it's hands off. >> It's a number and a town. So they know which town the person >> and then that number comes up in Manchester. This is your slot. Next number. But they don't pick them town by
town. It goes the whole all the numbers. So once one town's filled, it'll just keep going and going until it it finally picks itself eventually. >> And if they come up with more names from that town than a number, they they toss that out because that town
>> because it's full. >> It's false. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> That's fine. It's it's it's pure lottery. >> Yeah. So how many seats how many seats what was our minimum amount of seats uh prior to this change? >> We didn't have it. There were no minimums.
>> Oh. >> So it was all application. So what they used to do is K would send in an application. They go through the application and then they'd go to every school and interview every one of those applications. So like this year we had
almost 1,800 applications. So they'd have to send teams out and actually interview every one of these kids, go through, you know, their application, all their stuff, interview them and pick from there. That's how it was
done. So it was a huge undertaking. >> So we have 10 over uh the four grades today. Uh do you do you think that you know
four years from now we'll have >> 40 guys and 40 people? >> I I'll give you my opinion. >> Yeah. >> My opinion is you're going to end up >> 32ish
somewhere. That's where I think we'll end up. I I'm not I'm just just looking at >> what you know the applications we've got over years and the you know the people I've been talking to that wanted to go
and didn't get picked and >> if you look at other towns our size realistically we should be in the 32 35ish kind of range. >> That's a significant hit to our >> regional school district. >> Well that's why I said this this
>> our budget. Yeah. Well, yes, that to our budget cuz we're paying for that. But we're trying to get students in the public schools here and that is probably taking a number of them out or 10 out now, but there will be more. >> Well, you got to this is the way I look
at it and I understand the budget end of it. But if you're if you can give a kid a better chance and put them in a position to thrive, then that's a good thing. Oh, I I don't have any any problem with that. Just just
>> No, it's more I think um I mean, you know, our our regional school district needs to be aware of this and they need to manage their budget. They're they're well aware of it. So, >> I'm sure they are. >> Yeah. The first part, the second part,
I'm not so sure they that's why I didn't comment on the second part. >> Right. So, I think that's where the onus is. They need to recognize that, you know, I think this first year will be telling >> and >> I I think there's so this thing's not set in stone. We're going to look at it
again next year if there's tweaks that need to be that need to happen that they'll happen, but I would imagine it's probably going to run two or three years the way it is. And then >> I'm I'm just curious. We got 10 kids there now. That's two or three per class on average. We got 10 10 kids that are
interested right now. >> Yep. Wonder why the jump is >> it's really not a jump because we usually have like eight. >> We usually have 8ish 10ish 8 to 12 applications. That's
usually what we have. So we're actually right. >> The attrition is that much when when when school opens in September all of a sudden for some reason. >> How many kids graduate? I know four or five kids graduate. We have one
graduating this year. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Last year we had >> four, five. Yeah. Four. I think six. I can think of four. >> Four or five. We had last year. >> That's a lot.
Relatively speaking. Yeah. >> All right. >> Well, positive side on the on the budget side of it is at least it's more predictable. you can plan for that cost more consistently. I guess with this new
approach versus in the past, you didn't know if you had two kids going or if you were going to have eight kids going, you know, now >> at least like, you know, it's going to be >> for the pay for kid. >> What's that?
>> Well, what's the tuition per per child that we we have to pay uh the tech? So our per people p people cost is right around I think now it's going to be around 18,000. >> Okay. >> Which is le it's less than our per people cost.
>> Oh yes it is. >> So actually you know what? So I can I'll pass this around but if you have any questions keep going. >> I actually have a little handout they gave me. So I'll get rid of it and give it to you guys.
Just gives a little general where money comes from, where it goes. >> Print stuff like that. >> This is big money. >> Big bucks. >> We print all our own stuff. >> Yeah, but some where the money comes from. >> That's true.
>> Toner, I'm telling you, it's very expensive. >> That's great. This is helpful. Thank you, Um, >> okay. I think that's >> I guess we just have to see where it goes, I guess. >> Yep. >> Ryan,
>> good board. Uh, the I did not attend the uh meetings last week, his office predisposed because I knew that uh shifted. So, I know that uh
the uh so I emailed the u canteen contract and some other things are going on and I'm still waiting to find out what we're going to do with the u uh when we're going to submit when the uh submit the on the uh the naming of
the >> Okay. So, other than that uh amenity I wasn't able to attempt anything else. um downtown improvement team is um refining coming to the end of their refining their marketing pitch that to
help um advertise Manchester as a great place to open up a business and they're going to dry run it with a local realy burrow in a couple weeks. Um the facilities planning committee met last week
um and we reviewed the 90% design for the Lincoln Street well. uh it was looked good. They uh the the team the consultant had met with us previously and they really did absorb our feedback and and uh scaled back a little bit some
of the bells and whistles and even though they did that the estimated price tag went up a little bit since we last talked to them. So, um I think the plan according to Chuck is to uh go out for bid and have the general bids back
before town meeting so we know what we're dealing with. Uh the we're crossing our fingers though because we did talk total cost of ownership here. We're going to have a new building we didn't have before, right? So, that increases your operational costs, right? Um, so when I poked at that, the big
thing is we're trying to cross our fingers that the state won't require us to add an additional FTE uh for an additional operator >> uh because we're doing additional purification. So, we're doing things we weren't doing
before and we're just hoping the state won't require us to add personnel for that. That would be a a big hit to evaluation budget. Other than that, they don't really believe there's going to be a big impact, but we'll see. >> Has that happened in other places that
have already done this? >> Um, we didn't discuss the details, but it was more of a state requirement, and we're right now we're in the crossing our fingers stage. Um, but I'll poke at that a little more when we meet and and I think it's next week we're going to meet again. Um, the other thing we
looked at is Chuck um created I should say the team created a document comparing all of the options on the other major facilities that we're looking at um DPW, police, fire um and so we the team has the the committee has
the action to review that in detail and provide feedback by the end of this week and then at our next meeting we'll go through that in detail. Um the next meeting we're also going to have a little bit of a logistics discussion on
how we want to bring forth our recommendation to our various boards that we're representing. When do we achieve a consensus versus taking a formal vote um and talking about some of the communication aspects. So um Joe Began who is from the bike and ped
committee he's the chair of this facilities planning committee and he's got us on a good track. So already we've already heard um I've done my uh order of help. They're not doing anything. They they've
approved some septic systems, but they have finally come around to to accepting free money. Um which um the uh good news from the school committee is
that the um increase in the school budget um has been cut way back and um I think our share will be about um six
um Yeah. Right. Come on now. You can sit. You can talk. Um 654,000 more or less, which is substantially down from what they it's what's likely to happen is that they will vote on that
um in the next couple of weeks um and then continue to try and reduce the cost. That means we'll do our budget planning based on on their figure that their figure and then they may reduce
their health insurance costs even more. >> So you said the budget increase to us is now 650ish,000 instead of the 800,000 that they thought it was. Okay. >> Yes. Um,
and you know, they think they're doing us a great favor by by continuing to shave shave away at it, and they probably are, but it's makes it doesn't do much for the budget because we have to budget for what they >> Right. We have a timeline, I guess,
>> more than >> Kathy. It was their the first numbers that we got from them was a $1.3 million >> to us here >> and now uh it's closer to six
>> okay 654 >> 654 so it's a significant >> uh >> so that will that will give us a little more breathing room in in working out the budget >> so where does that leave that total shortfall So we were we were short.
Um I was we were giving them an addition in the in the recommended budget we were increasing their budget 588,000. So now we're short uh 70 80 grand compared to being short
730 grand. >> Right. That's what good. Yeah. Um most of the cost reduction was in um health insurance. Their their provider I think their providers told them um
originally that they should expect 21% increase and now they're saying 14. So they're they're maintaining the pro they're not cutting into the program. They're taking on raising fees for this and that especially extracurricular stuff. Um but
they have a a program where kids whose family really can't do that can be covered. So um >> that seemed like like good news. >> Yeah, it was good news. >> Um I was
>> it'll all go to Essex Tech now. Um the finance committee >> um the finance committee as we've heard approved the finance committee recommended um that we have some summer
hours in the library. Um trying to um the major discussion was with the harbor uh capital budget and I think the finance committee is cutting way back particularly on new boats,
trailers, cutters, trucks. We did that. >> Well then we did things happen kind of in par exactly in parallel. Um and and it's nice when both select finance
committee agreed. Um so they did approve um longer uh hours for the boats just circling around. Um because apparently last year Andy did it because he
salaried he didn't do what he's salaried for but he did drive a watch drive a boat around at night. >> Um they don't particularly have numbers. They don't keep track of >> how many incidents they have and what
kind of incidents what time. Um so we heard a lot of oh there's a big problem without numbers. They did say they're going to start to track that, didn't they? >> They said Yeah, they said >> I was really kind of surprised they had >> They should. Yeah. Yeah. >> But they were talking what, 10 o'clock at night or something?
>> 10 o'clock at >> Yes. >> That wasn't included in my recommended budget, uh, which is what they approved the the finance meeting, but we talked about revisiting, >> okay, >> the additional, >> okay,
>> uh, hours. this predated our updated numbers from the school. So, I'm sure we'll come back to it later. >> But if it's related to the launch, the launch fees need to support that. >> Yes, that was discussed. This was uh
this was patrol. There was a there was a um dis brief discussion about uh launch membership may increase if they uh had later hours that
they were servicing. But uh the the primary uh source of the request for additional funds was for patrol, not not really launch. They did handle the watch separately and
and um there was some discussion about how they were going to pay back the original investment and they've been doing some but this is you know looking like a 30-year loan. >> Well, we we also talked about
the process to increase the fees >> uh starting in the spring. and hopefully getting those approved so that we can install them into the software into the system in the fall for the following calendar year.
>> Well, but that there was also in the original plan there was also um a specified amount of time by which we had to pay the town back for the boats. Um >> what was do you remember what that was? >> I don't I'm I think we should look up
the documents. Do you have a copy of that? There was like a business plan of some sort. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. Share that. The >> balance was very specific because we didn't want to get the rosecolored glasses, right, and keep this thing going if it wasn't if the costs were not
being covered by the fees. We had very specific guidelines. If it's not making money or breaking even by this point in time, we shut it down. That was very that was done deliberately. So, I will dig up that document. Bion should have it, but if he doesn't, I do.
>> The balance sheet was down to the 90s. We start we we paid 120. >> The it it brought in more money than it expended last year, but that's >> that's different. >> That's different from adding in the cost of the original
>> Yeah. >> capital investment. So, that's where I I kind of I need to see >> they they transfer that surplus to to pay it down. Yeah, >> that's what they do. Yeah. >> And they're in the 90s now. >> Yeah. >> That's that's on the sheet that they passed out in the finance meeting. >> So that's 15,000.
>> It was like an average of 15. >> Yeah. >> Per year or something like that. >> No, it is. I'll I'll see if I can find it. But not Peter Twining is the one a member of the finance committee that I worked with on this. So if I don't have it, I know he does. So >> Well, that'll help that'll help us in
the rate like possible rate increase discussion. Absolutely. We want to try and make sure we're following, you know, we don't increase the rates and it doesn't support that. >> Right. >> The rate increase can't happen for this year. It has to happen because >> people are already signed up.
>> Right. Right. >> That's it for me. We've done the consent agenda. how administrators quarterly would feel. >> Um, I sent you a document today. Uh,
it was the uh goals with a status and just run through those uh quickly here. So, for personnel, uh, fill the vacancy of the land use clerk that's been completed. Um, activate the health and human
services team leader position that's been completed. Uh, fill the vacancy of the council on aging director. Completed. Fill the expected vacancy of the chief of police. We talked about that tonight. So, that's uh, initiated.
and we're negotiating the union contracts currently for communication goals uh submitting to uh the town administrator columns to cricket each month that is happening uh it didn't happen in this last month
because of the end of year cricket >> process uh you know schedule >> um develop a web page that tracks progress of efforts approved by town meeting mostly focus on capital projects. We haven't gotten into that yet. Uh so
we'll be getting into that probably post town meeting. Um on budget finances and policies, all of these are ongoing. So five-year financial forecast for the town, five-year capital plan,
um developing promoting a uh balanced operational budget. um making recommendations for development of a new short-term rental bylaw that so one of those one article this year will
be changing the definition. That was a discussion we had had a few months back for the upcoming town meeting. We're just going to keep it simple, change the definition, and then revisit probably with the planning board um what a short-term rental bylaw might look like
um because some of that will be zoning related. Um infrastructure, all of these are ongoing as well. So, developing a strategy to pursue a backup funding source for the
Central Street Culver project. Uh we're pursuing backup funding through town meeting as well as applying for an MVP regional action grant. Uh support the facility planning committee to develop current and long-term plans.
Uh directly support, promote, and advance efforts regarding the new senior center. Uh that is a daily occurrence. >> Uh prioritize climate change preparedness study for Ocean Street. We'll hopefully be as as we talked about earlier, we'll be having our first
public forum in the spring. Um and then uh PAS uh construction funding. So that's as well another capital item for the upcoming town meeting. >> Any questions?
>> It's a long list. got something going on with all but one thing with the terminology I think you ought to probably define in progress is for projects that at some point there's an end date and then it disappears ongoing means it's in your life forever. >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> And for some of these like under budget two and three are in progress at some point two and three are going to end and then they kind of disappear >> this year. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But one and four they're ongoing and then an infrastructure.
Yeah. one is kind of in progress because that will go away when that's been identified. And the same with three, four, and five. I think they're they have end points. >> Yeah. >> Number two, >> sure about three. >> Fair enough. So, you might make that
distinction in future ones, but um >> otherwise I think that uh you've got a lot of balls in the air here. And >> I just said that. And I I I hope we can catch them all coming down or you can anyway. >> Yep. >> So, it's
um but you've been you've been on top of the case and done an excellent job. >> Thank you. >> Throughout the past quarter. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think you've done a great job so far. I appreciate all your work and uh
you got a real list going there, but I think you can handle it. So, thank you. >> I got it. >> You saved me for last. Okay. Ready? No. >> Um, no. Excellent job. You know, you're deep into it now. I think when you know
when we talked three months ago or whatever you were you know had transitioned extremely well but there was a still you know still a lot you had to to uh learn about so I think you did that really well the last time we tal I agree with John um you know regarding
the goals you're deep into this stuff enough that you should put some timelines here if for no other reason it's something you should communicate to your team so they understand there are timelines and deadlines and it helps things move faster if you have a date on that. Um,
last time we talked about your review. We talked about, you know, you being able to um, learn differently, you know, not attend every single meeting. You know, I I can see definitely you've moved away from that and and you know, you certainly
seem more comfortable that you don't have to be in every meeting now on everything. And I was wondering um, you know, it's about scaling up, right? So, how do you feel that's going? And do you feel you still need to delegate a little more in some areas or are you feeling um
you know more comfortable with that? >> Um I think it's some some of it is a product of like the what we're into at the moment. >> Um you know throughout the year the focus changes
month by month, >> right? you know, right now we're so we're so heavily involved in budget uh and town meeting preparation and those types of things that um I don't have the bandwidth. Even if I wanted to be in those meetings, I
couldn't be. Um once we get through town meeting, you know, we already have mapped out the next three months where we're going to be looking at some of these larger projects or policies and procedures um where I'm going to have to delegate a
lot of those things as well. Uh so I think it's going well. Um, but sometimes in this it it you kind of got to get through the whole like one-year cycle to really see uh how you might make changes, you know,
moving forward. >> That's right. >> Because these these three these four months right now are going to be nothing like the next, you know, the four months after town meeting. >> Um, >> I think that's true in any leadership position. There are cycles. there's like an HR cycle, there's a budget cycle,
there's a STR planning cycle, you know, that's just that's the most most leadership jobs. So, I think that's good that you recognize that. Um, I'm glad you mentioned the projects because I think that's an area where um you know, on some projects, it's
clear to me which one of your direct reports is taking the lead and there are some projects I know that are still yours. So as you like you said get past the budget cycle you know the fact that for any big project you make sure one of your direct reports is the lead and you
can help them right that will I think still help you quite a bit because then that's good for their development as well. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> I think everything is going great. So thank you. >> Thanks. I concur. It's
It seemed at first that you were running in all directions all at once and uh it seems a little calmer now, which I'm sure is good for you and it's also good for the town getting the right focus.
Uh like we have we have such a good team, you know, our from department heads to support staff underneath that um to the people out on the road, you know, like it everybody is truly rowing in the same direction, which allows for
me to seem calm. So, uh, it really goes back to it go it really goes to the staff, the team, and you know, their help, their support for me allows me to support you and and and so forth. So,
>> do we have to give a grade or we just >> Well, I'll add I'll add some timelines to that and uh send it back out, but >> yeah, we'll pass it. >> All is well.
>> Okay. I think I ran out of strikes uh with you. So, >> leave it open. >> You have an open account now. >> Um and I hope to see your report,
>> right? Because we're just we had so much on the agenda tonight. So, uh we're just going to go right into really use the town administrator's report for budget discussions. Um the biggest of that is the school budget
numbers that you uh just spoke about. Um we've we've now been in front of the finance committee three times. Uh they've voted on the operational budget of the police, the town clerk, the library,
CPC, but will be revisiting that health council on aging, harbor, finance department, and cherry sheet non-appropriated funds. >> Uh we did not get to the town administrator, select board numbers at
the last meeting. And then this Thursday is fire uh fire department, recreation, veteran services, and hopefully we'll get to the town administration select board numbers uh uh this Thursday. But we're meeting every single Thursday, and we're we're
we're on a good schedule. I think we're working at a good pace. Um the the operational budget is so thin as far as increases this year. I think that's probably why we're getting through things pretty quickly. The
capital items, the big items is health insurance, school, and those types of things. Those will be lengthy discussions once we get into uh early March. Um as far as uh town meeting articles
go, um we have all of our standard articles. will have some prior year bills. Andrew and I are working together on a draft warrant to share with you at our next probably have that in the packet for you for the next meeting. Um
as I showed you that schedule a while back. Uh articles are required to be submitted to the select board 60 days in advance of town meeting which is the last day of February. Our next meeting is the 17th. So that's why the planning board will be coming to us with their
articles and then we will have uh send them right back so that they can start to notice their two-week notice period for their hearing and then have their recommendations included in the finance
committee report which is due at the end of March. Um, so we'll also we have that um short-term rental definition article. Um, and then Mr. Gloveski is here uh as
well before we get into CPC which will be a lengthy discussion. I would like to give him the opportunity to talk to you about the article that uh he's requesting which is a surplus uh of town property that abs uh his property
>> my wife's property >> his wife's property um we Chuck and I have uh this actually came in in June I think I think you had some discussion with Greg prior to me uh but we've met we've went met on site
we've talked about it and as As far as uh DPW and I uh are concerned, we're we're good with the with the request as long as the town retains access uh rights to the property. So with that, >> I can I can explain a little bit. Good
evening. I'm Mark Powki and I happen to be married to the property owner and uh she acquired one Elm Street which was the original home of the Cricut Press. that small little building on the right as you go down Elm Street. Uh it's
adjacent to Central Pond and she acquired it in 1998. It it's the building's not in good shape and it's going to need to be significantly renovated. Uh and in
anticipation of that, we were looking at the the property to try to determine how best to improve. Uh, I took a look at the title and realized there's a very unusual mess that was created in 1906.
Uh, and I can do this very quickly. Uh, these plans were prepared in 1923. Maybe I should pass them because we know what to do. uh the plans were prepared in 1923
uh to enable the formalization of an agreement with between the town and and the owner of the properties. Uh in 1906, the town of Manchester filled in a small portion uh of what was formerly Central Pond,
which is adjacent to this property, uh and built a retaining wall. When the when the property was filled, it was contemplated that there was going to be a boundary line agreement essentially between the town and the property owner whereby the curved line
that you see which represents the old shoreline was going to be replaced by a straight line. That straight line is actually reflected on the assessor's maps in town. Uh so the assessor's office in the town is assumed and
uh everyone's assumed that that conveyance occurred. It never did happen. However, so what's being proposed is that uh the town would sell uh or declare the property surplus so
that it could uh be sold. Uh it's only about 900 square feet. the the 912 square ft which is what the assessors say is based on the straight straight line. So it's approximately 900 ft but that could vary a little bit. Uh and
what we're hoping to do is uh be a we want to improve that rellandscape and just clean it up. Um it it really does nothing for the town. We've entered into another boundary line agreement with the town because of the central pond
project. So all along one elm and five elm which is the Maripos of Barn uh that back lot line was agreed upon between the town and my wife last year in anticipation of the town's central pond
project. So this is somewhat related to that. So, you're looking to go all the way to the retaining wall or you're just looking for the portion between the dotted and the straight line >> to go to the retaining wall. Uh the the
town right now owns the land from the retaining wall to the curved line. Although the town thinks it owns to straight line, but uh so what we're hoping to do is acquire that 900 square
ft takes it right to the retaining wall. >> Right. Okay. I just want to make sure we probably too small for public safety building. >> It's a piece of property that that probably can't be used for anything.
And so it's going to come off it's going to go onto the tax. So it's going to make us preference. >> So it'll generate a little income >> in addition to whatever the property is sold for >> it will enable renovations or
reconstruction >> and and rellandscape is cleaning it up. It's just been a mess. So, the public procurement program we still has to be uh advertised, right? >> Well, uh I I think you need to talk to whoever the town council is. We don't
know yet. >> We'll deal with this issue. Uh because there are exceptions in 30b relating to uh uh low value real estate and and so yes, you have to declare it surplus property.
It's it's unclear what the next step is and hopefully couple minute and page or then the uh co-consel can assist in that regard. >> So has there been a value established for this piece of land or is this all part of the process? >> The town has it assessed for about $800.
I'm going 900%. >> Okay. What we need to do is have an article on the warrant declaring that land surplus >> authorizing uh yes >> the town to dispose of the property. >> Well, we have to have some kind of
value. >> I don't know. I that I'll double check uh with legal if if the select board's open to, you know, including this on the warrant. I'll check with legal as to whether we need an appraised amount. uh
prior to town meeting um or if we can use the assessed amount. >> We need to know that because the first thing people are going to ask is what does this property worth >> a town meeting? So, we have to have some kind of answer for that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And how you got there,
>> right? And I'm assuming I'm assuming our town assessor could come up with a relevant value for it. But if I don't I just don't know if legally we're required to have an official appraisal prior to a town meeting.
>> Waterfront property. >> Yeah. And the other the other thing is as you as you heard uh Tony told you that we've agreed with Chuck Dam that whatever he wants to do uh with
respect to Eastman over it uh is fine. So uh the town is going to get dispose of the property but still have the same benefit as it had before it disposed of the property to the extent it needs to access the retaining wall or central pond.
If town will have an easement over it. >> So let me ask this question. Who's going to be responsible for the retaining wall after this? We are still >> the the town will own the retaining wall. >> The retaining wall stays the the land that we're surplusing is
inside the retaining wall to that curved line. But we still are retainable. And if we have to make repairs to it, if there's issues with it, we have the right to access that property to do it.
>> Well, okay. Because we've run into this problem >> before. So >> on the other side, on the other side, and we don't own that retaining wall. >> I've heard mixed >> I've heard mixed
there's a question there, right? If we uh we probably do but do advert possession, we probably don't anymore, >> right? >> I've heard mixed pages on that.
>> Um just just in hopes of getting home sometime. Um, so what um we need is a I would think probably a citizen petition, although we could adopt it.
>> We can put it on. >> We can put it on. >> Yeah. >> Um, we need somebody to write it. >> I've drafted I've drafted it. Uh, but I haven't I haven't sent it to council for review or asked those questions because I wanted to make sure you were good for
>> question that I should have asked to is is there aside from the question of how we assess a value is there any opposition to this? >> As long there's no opposition as long as we come up with some kind of value that stand up.
>> Cool. >> Do you uh There seems to be someone in the crowd with their hand up. Do you want? >> Oh, sure. Sorry. >> Yes. Mr. Hotinger. >> Hi, Henry Hotinger, 22 School Street. Um, for the purposes of this
conversation, I represent um Conservation Commission as well. I think I feel like we'd like to we'd like to take a look at this and um maybe weigh in if that's appropriate. Tony, >> uh,
what would what would Concom's input be based on for surplus property? Just >> um, solely on the virtue of the resource, the location to the resource
>> not change. Yeah, the use isn't the use changing, right? No, because ownership is changing. Well, you you don't have any intentions of building out into that area, right? >> No. >> And you would have to go to Concom and
do that. >> I'm just saying off the getgo. >> When is the Concom's next meeting? >> Henry, >> uh it's Tuesday, next uh tomorrow night. I'd be happy to uh meet somebody from
the concom to do a site visit if they want to before tomorrow night. >> They probably can't consider it because of the agenda. >> They they can't change their agenda at this point. But um
>> there's a scope issue though. like what does this have to do with >> Hong Kong's ha I'd be happy to take Hong Kong's input on this but I don't think that their jurisdiction is affected at all by the >> right >> by a certain
>> I guess I was going to say if if you know if the sale goes through and Mr. Gloves decides to do he wants to do something with that piece of land then it would go through right now. This is just a transition of ownership.
>> The the project at one elm will have to go to the concom >> ultimately but nothing is going to really change on this piece of property other than perhaps some landscaping. Yeah. >> And it's as you know elevated above
central pond and separated by the retaining wall. It's it's not wet but it is within 100 ft. >> Yeah. >> So at that point you'd have to make the application. >> Yes. Right. >> Now all those improvements would be subject to the approval of the con.
>> Right. Yeah. So um basically the compound couldn't act on this until it after it would be too late to for us to have it on the warrant. >> Yeah. I don't I don't know what they would act on but if they have opinion on the matter and want to provide it to us
before we close the warrant at the end of the month. Happy to happy to take that on. But >> even if we close the warrant we can have an opinion from them. >> Yeah. We can open it and on the floor. Yep. Yep. Yep. Hey. Um I think even with the comment we
the the board is intended to have this in front of the town. >> All right. So uh I'll I'll get answers to those questions. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. >> Thank you for your patience. >> Thank you. This this was a very interesting experience
trying. >> Good night. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. So, I will move to CPC. Uh I know Jack and Andrea
are on the call as well. Um try to get through this quickly. The biggest the biggest uh item here is the Rotunda project. Uh if you flip to the last page on this
handout is the uh spreadsheet of all the projects before the CPC uh this year. Uh they have uh their total expected funds for FY27 is $564,000.
>> Can we get this electronically? >> Sure. Yes. >> Thank you. Um under open space and recreation requested amount uh to be spent is 51,600. Under community housing, 200,000
under historic preservation, 70,100 uh 25,000 administrative and that adds up to $346,700 with remaining available FY27 funds of $273,451.
Um we went through a alternative analysis financial process on the retunda. And in this packet what you have here is um
if you go to page the beginning of it just gives you background on on the ratunda but if you go to page uh six I realize the numbers are kind of cut off there. Um, we need uh we need 3.6
about $3.6 million for the retunda project. We have 1.3 million already funded or appropriated 800,000 in uh taxation and free cash and then
500,000 from CPC from previous fiscal years. So, um, we talked about potentially borrowing the remaining the remaining amount that we need through the CPC program and you
could borrow that through the CPC program and not adjust the t the CPC rate. Uh, so that's option number one. Obviously, there's zero tax bill impact on that option uh because you're not
adjusting the rate. Obviously, in doing that, you are affecting CPC's ability to fund projects in future years because they'll have debt service as part of their future fiscal year budget.
Option two was borrow through the CPC but increase the CPC rate to 3% uh which would um have a tax bill impact of $11745. This is at $3 million borrowing. Uh and
then option three was, you know, to not go through the CPC at all and borrow the funds uh through the town uh which is $102 uh tax bill impact.
Uh the finance committee spoke with the CPC on this. I wasn't at that meeting. Uh my understanding is the finance committee was pretty adamant that they you know would prefer not to uh increase
the CPC rate or handcuff future years of the CPC and borrow the funds uh through the town and then possibly have CPC commit additional funds this year and next year in cash towards the project
reducing how much we have to borrow. Mhm. >> Um that also that was tied into reducing how much CPC was going to put from this year towards the affordable housing trust.
Uh the CPC then decided that they did not want to reduce how much they were going to put towards the affordable housing trust. So that's new information. Um, however, CPC still has an additional 24 whatever I said 240
24 Oh, thank you, Jack. $273,000 this year that they could put in cash towards the Ratunda project. Uh, also new information is Andrea looked at
working with Nate the timing of the project. Uh, it would not allow for the CPC to commit cash towards the ratunda next year. Uh, because of the way that the borrowing works. Once if the town
were to borrow the money, uh, CBC can't allocate funds towards town debt service. And since the debt would already start, uh they really would be able to uh contribute next year. Um
the other thought that we talked about at length with the finance committee was um because of the school budget issue, this this discussion predated the new school number because of the school budget
issue um and health insurance and things of that nature. What we could do was reallocate money that has been the 800,000 or a portion of the 800,000 that have been pre that have been appropriated previous
fiscal years to pay down OPED and to to help with the funding of the school budget and then that amount that we reallocate would get added to what we borrow
through the town for the retunda project. So those are all all that's kind of shifting now. Those are all that's all new information. >> Um >> so that'll bring our oped current. Right. >> Right. We if we have $360,000
in our current version of our budget for OPED if we get to 420 we'll satisfied you know our portion. We wouldn't have to put additional money towards it um next year either. So, it kind of solves
some of our issue now and into the future. >> And and we would be totally funding um the retirees from the trust rather than from our budget >> starting next year. >> Starting next year, >> right?
>> Saving. So now that we only need to find >> 70,000 >> $70,000 for the school, um we may not need to reallocate as much of the money that we had
appropriated previous years for ratunda, >> thus reducing the amount that we have to borrow for the ratunda. Does that >> Yeah. >> merit another discussion about possibly going through the CPC with the finance
committee? Uh maybe. Um >> I think we'll have to. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> There was strong feeling on part of the finance committee that the affordable housing trust has a lot of money and hasn't done anything
>> and giving them more money to do nothing. Um the affordable housing trust of course explains that that they have been doing things they just haven't worked yet. Um >> so >> I I do think that the affordable housing
trust which has about $1.2 million I think >> more >> a little bit more than that >> 1.6. >> Yeah. Anyways, I you know, I do think at some point um their need from CPC as far
as funding goes on an annual basis, it it it's going to decrease. >> I can't imagine that they're going to be needing $200,000 every year for the next, >> you know, years. Yeah. even even five or 10 years, I I I imagine they're almost
at a I think they're very close to having enough in their budget to be competitive in the real estate market. And once they once they uh get over that hump or once a town meets their obligation, um
what's their annual operating needs? Uh probably a lot less than 200 per 200,000 per year. and and this under this scenario of $3 million through the current CPC rate
of a 20-year pro uh debt service. It's still that would be $225,000 of debt service per year through CPC. That leaves them $338,00027
353, you know, still close to about $400,000. Now, that 3 million may be closer to 2.5 now because of the school budget, you know, and us not needing to reappropriate some of those funds. So, that debt service amount should go down.
Thus, the amount of available funds after debt service may go up. So these are the things that >> and you deal somewhat with with the fact that there are also factions on the finance committee who don't trust that the CPC
um matching gr is ever going to come to anything significant and that in that case it doesn't make any difference who borrows it. >> That that is fair uh and that that's a fair uh opinion to have. I don't necessarily disagree with the fincom's
uh position at the moment, but I do think that enough new information has come to light that it's >> based on the fact that we have so much capital need this year >> and a lot of those capital items are going to have tax bill impacts.
>> The fact that that there's an option here that would have zero tax bill impact, I think it's really important we you know, talk about it as much as we can and really really uh if if if it's
not the way we go, it's okay. But um I think based on the new information that we have about the school budget and that CPC actually has an additional $270 something thousand this year, you know,
that could be held on to and be the first debt service payment next year. Um those are just there there's just a lot at stake. I think >> and there are lots of all the pieces are moving. >> Yeah. >> Well, I was at the finance meeting that
you were at and I there were opinions there with regard to whether it would really be feasible to have the CPC borrow money. What is that being backed by? They they do not have the ability to tax per se. Um, >> on the other hand, there was a fairly
authoritative opinion that if CPC has a debt that you cannot get rid of the CPC until the debt is paid off. >> No, that eventually the town is going to be on the hook for that. >> Well, you could get rid of CPC, but you're going to be on the hook for it until that debt is paid off.
>> There was some discussion about that whether a whether a lender would say okay or and see through that or not. >> I don't think Yeah, I think we should just keep talking about it. It's I'm not
necessarily against borrowing it outside of CPC. Um, >> it's just something more that becomes more visible to the taxpayers. Oh, this is something else we're borrowing. Well, but I I think to Tony's point, if we can keep it within the CPC this year, it's a
way of controlling >> um >> then it doesn't become so visible. The amount of money that we're borrowing, the town is borrowing is less. >> Yeah. >> Even though the CPC is a loss, >> the but again the the I want to be
cautious about how much we handcuff future years of CPC ability. Um, >> but I do think that the demand for the affordable housing trust is going to decrease. And that's $200,000 a year for
the last I think four four or five years they've been >> Well, if if they're up to over a million, >> it's been longer. It's been 10 what? 10 years, right? >> No, it's got to be more than that. >> Yeah, it's got to be more than that. What are they? >> Oh, 10 years be $2 million. Never mind. >> I was a history maker.
>> What was it? Um, oh, two. Yeah. >> 1.6. >> I'm looking at this 200 300. >> But it really depends upon the kinds of deals they try to do. I mean, if you're buying a property, yeah, that's been up. If you're trying to do a deal with some sort of developer, >> that number could be anything. I don't know.
I did look at uh I looked at this total amount spent on projects by the CTC going back to 2006. So in 2006 it was about $127,000.
2007 about $200,000. 2008 110. 2009 207. And it kind of stayed around this 200 to $300,000 per year through 2014. >> And that's probably when the a uh
affordable housing trust had to take them. >> Then in 2015 it it jumped up to 800,000 spent 700,000 spent in 16 575 and 17
308 and 445 and 18 and 19. Um They must have built up a surplus. >> Jack's on the call. Jack could probably speak to why some of those years bounced up. But more so I want to understand like if
CPC had three to $400,000 to use a year, >> would that be debilitating or would that be healthy a healthy amount? just help him out because from what I'm looking at from and again Jack can speak to this is that
we removed the $200,000 from the affordable housing trust. It's $140,000 worth of projects being done and that seems to be reflective of what we saw when we first started. All right. And there's a lot of little I mean we're looking 15,000 20,000 $3,000
and that that pays a takes care of issues or items. I don't I I don't think that there's a huge backlog of historical preservation projects. I don't think there's a huge backlog of open space and recreation projects.
>> It's all been resolved. I think parks and wreck usually is >> they're looking for things to spend money on. >> So, actually though, there was something I expected to see on this list that I didn't. That was the new signage for a singing beach. Jack, is that in the um I see the signage for Reed Park and Pine
Street Field, but I don't see the seasonal signage that we talked about um in the select board in November. >> Yeah, there there's there's several thousand dollars in that budget for for the singing beach signs.
>> What is that? The >> It says signage for Reed Park and Pine Street. That includes the singing beach seasonal signs. Yes, it's going to be about it's going to be about 12,000 for those two signs. So, the additional funds would be for any other signs that that um parks and recck needs.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> I'm going to I'm going to clean up the language for the for the um uh warrant article. >> Jack, do you would you um comment on anything I had to say? Do you have any input there?
Um well first of all um if we were to bond using about 40% 50% of our um annual funds it it will grow 2 3 4% a year with
2 and a half% in new growth. Um we can probably survive especially if we knock down the affordable housing trust somewhat. we do have to give 10% of our funds to the affordable housing category
every year. Um, so we cannot eliminate it. Um, I will say that I went back to our to the CPC last week after the finance committee had told us that they were only going to support $60,000
of that and I was ready to reduce it. Um and the CPC voted by a vote of 7 to1 to keep our recommendation at 200,000 for this year. So we will not we will not be reducing the affordable housing trust
recommendation going to town meeting >> and that and you still have $273,000 available after that. >> That's correct. It it's actually two set the item number six of the open space
$2500 is has been pulled till next year. So it's 275 now. >> So that 375 could either be appropriated in cash for rotunda if we wanted to go down that road and then it
would reduce the amount that we uh borrow. >> That's correct. Or it could be if we borrowed through CPC, that amount could be held uh in reserve, you know, held by CPC for
future year spending and could go towards debt service. >> Yes. But we we we'll have sufficient funds uh starting next year to pay the bond without doing that. So we could give you the 275 and still
bond in the future. >> Yeah. I mean if anything that we have talked about falls into the category of community um preservation to me the ratunda is it. I mean
>> that's the community right there. >> It's the only reason we're doing it. I mean, literally, it it doesn't serve a, you know, a functional, you know, it's it's beautiful. It's part of the culture of the town. That's why we're doing it.
So, I I don't know why we wouldn't pay for it as much as we can out of the CPC budget. >> So, I I have a question. >> So, there's been talk about if we can do Loris Pierre, the Reed Park extension,
and Tux >> all at the same time. There's a sa there's potential savings there, right? Get one here. >> So, whatever we end up doing here, is that jeopardizing our ability to keep all
those in the same window? No. >> No. >> Unless it unless it isn't funded, you know, whether it's funded through town borrowing or CPC borrowing, um it doesn't matter. we'd still be able to
coordinate those projects together. >> So, it's not a timeline. >> So, what we're saying is we're going to borrow the money. We're just trying to figure which pocket it's coming from. >> Right. >> Right. And and >> you have a zero tax bill option, but it
has a handcuff element to the CPC in future years. >> Well, Jack seems to think it won't. The only thing I would say too is that this is the one area of town meeting >> where >> the town really understands what they're voting for. You know, the line each line
item we go through each line item and and somebody says, "I want to hold, you know, they they really get it. A lot of the other stuff they're voting on is kind of >> esoteric." >> Yeah. Esoteric or it's it's hard to see. This is easy to see. So, the town can either say yay or nay. That's another
reason I'd like to see it under under the CPC budget. It's given the town people's control. >> Okay. Oh, Rosemary, I think you had your hand up first. >> Hi. Yeah. Um, so I'm speaking on behalf of the CPC um myself um not historic
preservation. I I support >> tell us what your name is and what your address is. >> Sure. Rosemary Costello, 12 Bennett Street. Um, and so I'm wearing my CPC hat, not my historic district or
historical commission hat. I'm as a historical commission member supportive of the Rotunda preservation project. as a CPC uh member. Um I know that we've heard um from both parks and wreck
um and I think the DPW about projects at Sweeney Field and the Bath House at the beach. And I think we could use CPC bonding for those projects as well. So, I'm hesitant to throw all our bond capacity into the Rotunda when there may
be other capital projects that are CPC bond eligible in the future. >> We have the luxury of time. Can we just >> I think the difference with Sweeney Field >> is you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think CPC can fund
>> that entire project, whereas Ratunda I think it can. You know, there's portions of Sweeney Field that I of project that I don't know are eligible for CPC and Bath House I think is still >> I don't know if any of that is eligible.
That's still kind of a question. >> I think that's recreation. I think that that falls under recreation. >> The bath the bath house would be a difficult uh one to uh get by the statute.
We we can we can renovate we can do some renovations to enhance it, but not not a major $500,000 uh uh total renovation. Before we get too far off, um I'd like to hear from Sarah Melish.
>> Thank you. Sarah Melish, 11 Bennett Street, um chair of the finance committee and chair of the affordable housing trust. Um, I I think that the uh Kathy raised a concern about the fact
that the retunda was so important to the the community that it would be um clearer what we were paying for if it went through CPC. And I wanted to correct that because if it's paid for
with a bond through the town, um it goes as a separate warrant article for the debt exclusion. So the town would know that it's paying uh 3.6 million as an appropriation um to cover
the cost of that rotunda. Um, one of my ideas, creative as it may be, um, was to you, we have to appropriate the whole amount anyway. It doesn't matter who funds it. The town has to appropriate it
so it can go out to bid. But um one of my ideas was is if we pulled back some of that cash the town had appropriated in prior years to the Roonda and enable us to fund the full 420,000
um to the OPED. Then next year we're we're having a $800,000 swing in our um town resources because not only would we not pay the 400 odd
thousand for OPED um but we would be paying 450,000 out of the OPED trust for the retirees um benefits. So you're talking only one tough year this year and certainly the
fact that the school school is pulling back their budget is helping that. Um and we you know when we discussed it in the finance committee, you know, why not have the town pay for it? The the current match through CPC is 16%. It's
gone down every year. Um, so you're not saving money really and you're tying the hands of the CPC for future projects and and we do have future projects in parks and wreck um that that need to be
funded. So that's kind of where we were coming from. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm going to say that we're not going to solve this problem tonight. >> No, I didn't think we would. and and I think we've got enough numbers
floating around that we need two weeks to think about it and we've got time. So, >> could we get an updated um I haven't looked at all of the um meeting footage from the FinCon meetings. Um could we
get if there have been updates recommended, could Andrea just get us the updated budget book? >> Yes. Yes, >> that'd be helpful. >> Yes. whatever few pages have been changed. >> Yep. I think there's only the the only
thing that they approved operationally is the additional funds for the library that wasn't included in my uh budget. And now we're going to have >> changes in my recommended amount to
reflect the updated school number. Um we as well uh have been have received a signal that our health insurance would be likely more closer to like a 14 15% increase whereas the current budget has a 20%
increase in there so we can bring that down. Um so we'll we'll send an updated >> Yeah. sometime if we're going to talk about this at our next meeting. It would be nice to have the real numbers in front. Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you.
>> Okay. Um I think >> Madam Chair, >> thank you. Um we the as you know is not anything we're going to make a decision on tonight and how to fund it. However, the slate of
CPC C recommendations before you is our up-to-date um slate that we have voted on with the exception of that $2500 for the Pine Street U access number six. I'm I'm not
sure if everybody has that on six, but uh on the um open space. >> Okay. So I would want wondering if the select board is ready to vote to approve their support for the CPC at this point.
The town meter >> um need to finish our discussion. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Um I'm not I would like not to go to the town meeting with different recommendations from finance committee.
So this is something completely what I why I brought it back to my committee uh thinking that maybe the committee would agree with the finance committee. uh but the CPC did not and they're sticking to the $200,000
uh which will uh which is something that the committee can do and bring and bring to the town meeting. >> So does CPC has to go back on the finance committee agendas in one of these Thursdays. it. I think we'll be we'll be talking about Harbor Capital
projects uh generally in an upcoming FinCom meeting with the DPW. >> That's scheduled. >> There's uh >> or 212 and then uh Sarah said that she put CPC on the agenda on added CPC to
later in the >> later in this so it's it's going back up for obvious reason. Um Sarah, do you have a comment? >> Yes. Um the finance committee has not yet voted on any CPC um items. We had a discussion. We did
not take a vote. And so I believe I have it on the March 12th for a vote um for all of the CPC, but we have not yet voted on the CPC items. So it will be going it will be going
back >> right. So you can wait. See the select board can wait then. >> No, that's a mess, but we're not going to get any further for F5. >> Yeah. I mean, I think we're
it's it's it's a constant mess. It's a constant mess, but things are going in a good direction. You know, we're flushing out as much information as we can. Analyzing all these different options. We're getting improved numbers. You know, we we had kind of a plan. Now,
numbers have changed for the better. It allows us to think differently. So, it's all it's all positive stuff. And, you know, the finance committee is uh really moving along in their process. So, I'm I'm happy where we are. We have more We
have a lot more work to do, but I'm happy where we are currently. >> We're going in the right direction. >> Yes. No, >> in that case um unless there are more things I need to
report uh we should go into session uh pursuant to general laws of chapter 3A section 206
to consider the purchase exchange lease or value of real estate property at the Masonic Hall 10 Church Street and the chair declares that an open meeting may have detrimental effect on the negotiating position of the public body. >> Is there a second not to return to
>> not to second? >> Okay. Uh Jeff, >> yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> Kathy, yes. And yes, >> John, yes. steps. So we are going into executive session
release the first 1623 and close. Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you.