meeting of the Manchester by the Sea Select to order. Jeff >> Brian Kathy Ann is here. >> John is here. >> Um the first item on our agenda is
public comments on non-aggenda items. Yes, Jod Morris 11 and I'm here on behalf of the friends of Manchester trees. I have a very brief announcement and a very brief request. The brief announcement is that we've just been awarded our 34th year and I can connect
those to put on the sign out on Pine Street and it's very exciting and Arbor Day Foundation decided to rebrand and send us a new um banner that is actually a flag and my assistant here.
>> I have a place for that thing. I realized that we have a serpent of flags here at the moment, but Friday is the official Arbor Day of National Arbor Day and I didn't know whether this could fly below the special American flag. >> Other flags
>> below other flags um at some point. That's my request and you can you know whatever. >> No pressure. >> Okay. >> But >> but I think we have the general policy that we fly only one flag at a time. Oh, okay. And
>> I don't think it can accommodate two anyway. Even if we didn't have that policy, we can't. There's not enough proclamation, too, don't we? >> We need a We have to have a proclamation. We have to have >> Well, you had a proclamation for Arbor Day. >> Yes.
>> Why? >> No, I just came up with that. >> That is true. >> I'm not gonna Whatever you guys want to do. Maybe next year. I This literally came in the mail today. just why I ran down here. >> Um, so Arbor Day is tomorrow.
>> It's Friday, >> right? >> Nationally, we we declared it because our kids are on vacation this week. So, we declared it and celebrated it uh last Wednesday, >> this past week. >> Perhaps we have a proclamation for every day at the school.
>> Yeah. In fact, we have to have a proclamation in order to be awarded the Tree City USA. >> That's correct. Green City, US. >> Green City, US. >> Now, Arbor Day is April. >> It's the fifth Friday in April. >> Oh, it's always the fifth Friday.
>> Yes. And it often coincides with our vacation or the day before our vacation. >> All right. >> So, we have another flag on there through the end of when >> Well, Friday comes down. >> Oh, it comes down Friday. >> Yeah. You know, but but we need a proclamation. The process it's a
process. We have a proclamation >> uh to identify that day. Yeah, >> I have no problem. >> No, I got no problem with that. >> What if this was someone who's >> on board here? Thank you. >> What we'll do is the other flag will come down Friday morning and
>> this will go >> this will go up. >> This will be great. >> And just just for the day. >> Just for the day. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Just for the day. >> Thank you very much. Okay. >> I guess I guess the proclamation covers all aspects of
>> whatever proclaiming is. >> It it it doesn't say that we're putting out. It says that we are we support this and that's that's the objective. >> That was the easiest flag we ever put up.
Don't expect you to do it. I'm just just enjoying it for a minute. Give me a minute. >> Are there any other comments on non-aggenda items? I
don't have a chairman's report. Um, is there anything we want to talk about or action items? Um, we have read coming up at our next meeting and
Okay. Um, the next item on the agenda, um, discussion items is sidewalk snow clearing. >> So, this was on our action item list for
today. uh following our winter season hopefully. Um uh mostly uh just as an overall report um we had uh $145,000
appropriated for snow removal in the current uh fiscal year. And that's based on a five-year average. Each year is based on a five-year look back. And that five-year average is $135,478. So we had 145,000 appropriated for the
current fiscal year. Uh this winter we had 23 snow and ice related events, significantly higher than um a typical amount of events and a significantly higher amount of snow, especially over the past five years.
Um, as of late March, we looked at uh we put together what our expenses look like compared to what we appropriated. Now, keep in mind, snow and snow and ice is basically the one uh appropriation that
the uh Mass Municipal Finance Law allows you to overexpend and then uh replenish through a free cash appropriation, which we need this year and is an article at this year's town meeting. Uh for salaries
uh we had 32,000 appropriated and we spent around 72,000. For vehicle and equipment repairs we had 10,000 appropriated and we spent about 22,000 uh for hired equipment. This was the
biggest uh overexpendure. We had 25,000 appropriated and we expended about $166,000. And that really comes down to the two big snow removal events that took place
following those two major storms. Um and Sand and Salt, we had 75,000 appropriated. We spent and we're expending about 85,000. So um we're looking this year at town meeting to appropriate $250,000
from free cash to cover the extra expense. and then the 5-year average next year will rise. We may want to put more money towards it next year. Um, but obviously this past winter was
extraordinary compared to the ones previous to that. Um, DPW and those, you know, also the, uh, contractors that we hire, I think, did a phenomenal job dealing with the snow that we dealt with this year. Uh
we've really um you know only received minimal uh you know questions or complaints from constituents throughout the winter and some of those even tied to the snow removal events that took place because we had to do those at
night in order to um you know remove the snow when there wasn't a lot of traffic on the street and there was a parking ban in place. So it was a little bit of a you know in uh inconvenience over the nighttime but allowed us to get the pro get the work done quicker and more
efficiently. So the so the next day uh people had place to park and then of course you know unexpectedly we got another major snowstorm a week or so later and had we not you know done that we wouldn't have had any place to put
that snow. Um, a couple other items. You know, obviously at the end of every winter season, there's damage caused by snow removal, whether it be, you know, signpost, leaning, fence, curbing, things like that. And the DVW's been out in full force in the past um month or so
making those repairs. Um, and on the and we did we did connect about the map uh regarding, you know, responsibility. Um there was a couple small changes that we thought we might um we're still kind
of looking at it uh that might need to be updated as far as things labeled as uh town responsibility within the first 24 hours uh or within the first 72 hours. Some of those we actually do
within the first 24 hours. So relabeling that. Um and uh and then lastly, you know, some of the some of the things that I heard it, you know, from residents was um you know, there are areas here labeled as
property owner responsibility and yet, you know, that the snow hasn't been removed yet. Um you know, unfortunately, we don't have a local bylaw to really enforce that. uh we do make effort to communicate with the owner and then
sometimes you know if it's a couple days later and there's still an issue DPW will go and um you know do what they can. >> So that's my recap. Do you have any anything else to add? >> Uh no I think in general I you know echo
exactly what you said. You know we've talked about it talked to my guys and you know obviously top of mind after the winter we've had. Think the one thing that I would just add is one area where we do have issues that we don't really have a good answer for is private
contractor removal for private residents because they seem to always come, you know, not always, but after we've cleared a spot and then all of a sudden something gets back. So, we get those calls or, you know, we get, you know, we have to re redo areas that we've already done. I don't think there's really, you
know, anything nefarious about it. It's just like this is the reality of, you know, we can't be everywhere at once and neither can, you know, the private homeowner contractors and sometimes they run out of places to put the snow and so it's it's all just kind of the way it unfolds or in a particular event kind of
impacts, you know, how people look back at it and, you know, it's a very personal experience when we get this much snow. >> So, I ask that this be put on the agenda. Um, I appreciate you doing that. Thank you. Um, I would like it to be put on the agenda again for before next snow
season. Um, I wrote down what I thought went really well this year and what still needs improvement. Um, I thought just overall, you know, given the amount of snow that we got downtown, I thought it looked great. Um, you know, last year we had so much melting for
whatever reason. I know it was a lot of dry snow this year. Maybe that helped, but I thought the downtown looked really great. um the powderhouse entrance that you know a lot of people like to hike even in the winter and stuff like that. I thought that was really well done. Um we still have an issue on the north side of
Lower Pine does not get cons. It's an afterthought still. Um it's better than it was I would say but um they always plow the southside first which is not according to what we say we're going to do in the map. 3 weeks,
you know, after the storm, it still doesn't get done. And unfortunately, this year, you know, I had a neighbor fell. Um, he fell and he called town hall. Then I called town hall and they came right away, really within 24 hours and plowed the sidewalk. But the reason
I'm still pretty passionate about changing the behavior on that particular part of the street is it's a really dangerous place to be walking in the street, okay? cuz it's on a hill. Cars go up the hill really fast cuz they're trying to get up the hill. And if people
are walking in the street near the gas station, it's dangerous. Um, and that's the side of the street where the sidewalks are not plowed is where people park. So, you know, it's it's great that the
parking spots were made available, but then people try to they have no sidewalk that they can use, right? So I just for whatever reason the south side gets plowed immediately. They I don't know if they're coming off of Bennett Street and they just take a left up Pine Street
there but for whatever reason the north side is an afterthought and that is part of the heater and I I would like to see us do do things differently next year. So, >> I think I think with the amount of sidewalks and, you know, snow removal
that needs to get done within 24 hours, we really do need to prioritize one side of the street or the other. It's really not fair to do two sides of one street when other streets haven't had any. >> Totally. So if it's, you know, I'd have to talk with with you and and and the
operations of it all, but I think we'd have to pick, you know, which side is the more important within the 24-hour window and then the other one you come back to later. >> I'm not talking about like even within 24 I'm talking 3 weeks after a storm and it's still not done. That to me is just
somebody forgot about it. Okay, that that's a forgot about it issue. So that's what tends to happen because they do the other side first and the other side is not connected to the downtown. You know, people come from the multif family housing off of Pleasant Street or
Newport Park and they walk on the north side of the street. They don't they shouldn't have to cross over to the south side, right? So it just it's not making sense. And I just like this it makes sense to somebody but not to the people who live there. >> Yeah. Operationally, just to help
explain, you know, operationally with these types of plans, the further out you go, the less confident you can be because, you know, even this year, we didn't have within 3 weeks, we already had another two feet
of snow, you know. So some you never you know you can say three weeks and in a perfect scenario you have one snowstorm and you kind of follow that policy perfectly but then another snowstorm hits and now you're kind of back to >> I get it. It's a moving target and I just want us to talk about it again
before next year because it you said you're right you got to prioritize one side of the street and the side that is being prioritized does not make sense. That's >> I just want to add in, you know, completely understand where you're coming from, Kathy, and we'll talk about it again in in the future, but I just want to also reiterate something that
Tony and I failed to mention is there we did have lots of downtime on the sidewalk plows in particular this year. >> Understand that. >> And so that's also I think was part of the issue with you know when we did get complaints on the sidewalks. Um you know that we have two so one's kind of the backup. Uh that first big storm so like
right before the second big storm um we lost both. So it wasn't like a situation where we could come right back out. Um so that that was I think impacting that. Um and we honestly we didn't have the snow blower attachment for the main
piece of equipment all year because the >> the shaft went. So anyway um you know >> back on the agenda next fall. >> Yep. >> Understand. >> I would just say you know being involved in private snow removal myself I would say you guys did a great job. So,
>> thank you and your crew for all you did this year. >> Lot of long long duration storms, too. So, >> yeah. Yeah. No, downtown looked great. >> Absolutely. >> Coming in staying in. >> Yeah. The the amount of snow and the duration of those storms and then the
equipment, it all it all kind of just for the challenges that were put in front of the DBW, you guys did a phenomenal job. um you know had had two feet of snow came in a shorter period of time you know you're not dealing with that exhaustion factor on the staff
either so it was there was a lot of challenges one after the other but >> thought it was a good job >> when when you remove snow um gener first it goes to the singing beat
and how do you when do you decide that you're going to put someplace else. >> Uh well, we wanted to leave some spots uh down there. So that was, you know, we didn't want to, you know, completely inundate it. >> Um so that that's generally where we go.
And then, >> you know, just the size of the equipment that we have at the time, you know, is what we were using to get it in there and then we have to push it around. >> Um and then we we just kind of run out of room. So we go to the next spot, which was Masco. And then if that had completely filled up, we would have been
up on our school street. That is >> there was some on on Tux Point. >> I think we did do a little bit at Tux Point too this year. >> Self- serveing as it may seem, those are
big trucks, >> right? >> Little road, >> right? Yeah, that's the last resort for sure. >> And we had a a tree down across that was another issue there at one point.
Now the trees I don't blame you for the trees but but there can even in bad weather there's going to be walking on that they've got to go there ask them to go
slowish. >> Yeah. >> And the Masco snow you moved that again to clear out Masco. Correct. >> Right. >> And and where did that go? >> I went out to upper school. >> That's Could you go to upper school? right off the bat or was that is is that like up in the
>> it's kind of a last resort because that's kind of upstream in the >> system. So like you know the ideal scenario is it you know drains into actual drainage. So we you know any debris gets trapped in the catch basins and whatnot. So that's why Sing Beach
parking lot's kind of perfect then you know in the spring we clean the catch basins anyway. Also, all the sodium content in the snow because of the salt, road salt, goes to the ocean, which you know isn't as big of an issue. Uh, if we go upstream on upper school, then it's
kind of in the wetlands and the into the system. >> Okay. >> So, that's that's why that's the last. >> All right. Had you done that before? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I I I always knew the first move, but I didn't know second moves.
Okay. And we always have, you know, in a in another scena worst scenario, we have the ability to request the approval to dump into Marblehead did that this was on the table for several pounds.
>> We didn't we didn't quite get to that point, but we were we talked about >> giving what's given what's coming out of the piles at Singing Beach. >> Yeah, it's pretty quiet. Yeah, >> it's black and sometimes it's orange.
>> It's icky. >> Okay. Anything else? Thank you. >> Happy Arbor Day. >> Okay. Volunteer employee of the year. We we got a we got a submission
>> for this award. Um and I and I believe I I guess it this is something that the town had done for many years and then >> for many years Bion showed up. Bion was the hero. Bion would not accept the award and so we canled it.
>> Okay. But and then I think it I think it was awarded last year. Um, >> and perhaps and the year before. >> No, I think last year was the first year >> I think. Yeah. November. Okay. Tiffany and and the the downtown.
>> So, since we we we we did receive an unsolicited submission. Um, I felt it was appropriate to have the discussion and maybe set a date >> for when submissions should be due by. so everyone has the opportunity and
knows that it's something we're considering for this year. Um, but I don't I couldn't find this the date around the date that you had submissions due last year if >> I don't know when you when you tend to
make the decision or >> haven't made the decision for 12 years and then last year there was sort of >> I remember >> was it a round town meeting something? Yeah, I think it was. >> That's And then we bought it A, B, C, and D. >> Remember? >> Yeah.
>> We had to keep it from the down low, >> right? >> It was around this time. >> Yeah, I think it was. >> Uh, >> you know what? You could, you know, use AI to figure out when we made the
decision. It's all all public documentation. Have somebody go in there and just search and figure out >> or I get certificate. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, you could. There you go. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Okay. I will get that to you tonight.
>> All right. And then we'll >> And then >> we'll publicize that it's >> open for submissions and give it two three weeks of some Yeah. Okay. >> Three weeks. >> Okay. >> Okay.
um senior community centered son hall presses. >> Uh so we now that we have closed on the property um we have to we have two appointments to make for tr for trustees.
Uh in the declaration of trust it talks about how soon we have to appoint a trustee. uh post I'll give you the exact >> turnover >> turnover event. I don't I don't believe
that this original creation of the trust is defined as a turnover event. So I don't think we're under that time uh that time requirement in the trust. However, I do think that we should have the discussion and and and point fairly
quickly because you know we have work to do. So, um I I you I sent you the uh chart of um action items and the declaration of
trust if as well and on page uh five it talks about the roles and responsibilities. Um, I don't know if you've had an opportunity to to look through that um closer, but
I think we should, you know, maybe schedule or put on the action item list, you know, schedule a date to make an appointment. So, >> you sure we the clock hasn't started on the turnover rent? Because I, as I read it, as soon as there are two condos,
>> 10 days. >> 10 days. That's kind of how I read that. So, when did the deed get filed? Was it last Friday or >> Friday? Yep. >> Okay. I don't know if it's 10 business days or 10 calendar days, but the way I read that, we need to appoint trustees.
Maybe what we could talk about is um criteria for what we're looking for in trustees. Um, and we may want to consider since this is kind of new and we want to consider,
you know, continuity of governance after the five of us are no longer in this board, we may want to have some sort of a I'm not sure if it's a procedure or a policy around the appointment, the town's appointment of their trustees to this particular
um I don't know. That's that's going to be kind of interesting because think some of the functions of the trustees are going to change as the building is built out and complete. So when
I think about trustees now I'm looking for people who are capable of supervising or watching at least construction and and I don't think that's going to be important. and
god knows in the future. >> Yeah, I think in that time I think just the the roles will change dramatically. >> Well, I'm not looking for spec that type of specificity. Let me give you an example. Okay. >> Um I don't believe that the town should
nominate a trustee who is a Mason. That would be a horrible conflict of interest. Right. >> Right. >> I don't know. So, I'm just I'm not saying anybody is I'm just saying that is an example of something that I think we may want to codify in a policy. I'm not
talking about skill sets per se, but if there's >> it was on that general um another example, I think this person should either um either have a couple of years of experience as a condominium trustee
or go through some training so that they there's training available so that they know what their responsibilities are. Who does >> those are just some general things >> who does these trans like where do you >> as an industry association I already sent um Tony the material I went through it when I became a trustee it was very
helpful because I didn't know what I was getting myself into and it was very helpful and it's um you know I'm sure there's online versions of it now I took it a number of years ago but there are industry there's all sorts of laws and stuff and and I just those are just two examples of
things that I believe people should have as qualifications or be willing to undertake before they become a trustee. And like I said, the Mason not being a Mason I think is a pretty important um one. >> The other one conflict of interest
there. So, >> but I'm not suggesting we make a policy now. I just wanted to kind of throw that out there as food for thought because before we entertain names, I just thought we should talk about what we're looking for in terms of characteristics
and I don't know what else is on your mind. >> I mean, if there's some kind of training available that makes sense for them. >> Are these trustees? Is there a term for them or >> Yes. >> Okay. That's is that up to us or is there standard? >> No, it's in the docu. Is there a limit
or is it I didn't think it was term >> it's not a term limit there's there's language about if you desire to re resign what you have to do >> yeah this process for how to resign >> how to resign >> and how to be appointed >> and how to be appointed
but no I don't >> I don't recall there being term limits and >> read it a couple of times and I don't >> I don't think so >> on the other hand that's going to be such a wonderful job that I can't imagine anybody ever want to leave.
>> I can't ever imagine anyone wanting it. That's beside the point. >> So what else did you think >> given a language which seems to me suggests we ought to have
representation as soon as pos as soon as possible. Perhaps we could entertain a temporary appointment or an interim appointment. >> Yeah, I was going to say we could put in
people in for some sort of time. turnover event. This is why I I read it the way I did, says it's hereby defined as the date that is 10 days following the date on which units one and two are held in
different ownership. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, it qualifi it certainly qualifies because this is different ownership. >> We're using it. as I understand, we're already using that part of the building and
and we own unit two. >> So, um that being said, I you know, I I'm in favor of of making appointments sooner than later. >> Um I don't think it's a major issue if
we're not ready tonight and do it at the next meeting, but I I'm in favor of getting it done or my recommendation would be to >> anyone have a problem with town employees being trustees? >> No.
>> No. In fact, I think they think they one of them should be because the of the way the the building is going to be utilized. Mhm. >> the uh to all these points and uh I have
offered and actually anticipated through the last two or three years of sitting as one of the trustees. Uh I think that I know that you've got some apprehension of Tony taking on a role. Uh but I also
think that as we do the transition and a relationship was built and I'm I'm putting words in his mouth. he might not want the job. I don't know. Uh and that as we in this it's critical in the first couple of years that
there might be times when we need access to a town, you know, to one of the town departments that someone like Tony can have almost immediate access to as opposed to uh you know >> having to go back >> having to go back and forth and ask the questions. I think that during this transition period
uh with the relationship that we have built with the Masons, I think it's just would be an easy transition and uh they continue to build trust. I think there's a lot of trust right now and I want to maintain that
trust between the two and I think that would in the overall make the whole process easier. >> I think we have a volunteer I definitely Yeah, >> he's also right in his room to say, "Yeah, your name." From his perspective
because you can throw out names, but if they're not here, you don't know where they're at. >> The other thing that we're looking at is we're looking at perhaps an interim position right now because we haven't really looked at all of the angles here. >> Yeah, we have to there's a there's a lot
of studying that has to be done. >> Yeah. And I don't know what a reasonable interim period is, but it takes pressure off in terms of like you don't have to do it tomorrow. You can do it, you know, >> I'm sure that the Masons will, you know, but they're going to do what they're going to do, right? And I'm pretty
confident I know who the two uh trustees will be on their side. They've been talking about it for three years, right? >> So, uh and I don't know if that, you know, I'm sure we can go interrum head coach for a while and all of a sudden you got to do this. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. So that's just my feelings on both things. >> So, so if we do interim though, we should define what that is and what is the end point of that interim period. Um, number one, because I personally am
not in favor of Tony being a trustee, not because I don't think he'd be an awesome trustee. He would be the perfect trustee. It is going to be a time drain. And personally, we have a lot of other things I would rather have him focus on
regarding building trust. I think it's very important for the long-term relationship to start building that trust with whomever should probably be the longer term trustee. >> We may need to talk about who that is, but I would certainly say Cheryl is a
candidate because of how that condo is going to be used. Council on Aging, Parks and Rex, that all reports to her, you know. So, I I I think I'm I'm fine with, you know, if Tony wants to do something on an interim couple months,
I'll, you know, I can support that, but not not more than that because we have to get the right governance model. That was on my list of things to talk about. We have to get the right governance model set up for how decisions are going to be made. this is going to be different than
other town facility >> decisions and we really haven't talked that through and I listened in on the FinCom meeting the other night. They have a lot of questions. There were a lot of good questions and I know we're going to talk to them I think on Thursday night. um we have a governance
model that we haven't talked through and I think it's important to kind of get Cheryl engaged in that process even if she winds up not being a trustee but she's you know she's kind of the key owner of what goes on in unit two. Um I don't want to be making decisions
without her. I think uh the the con I think Cheryl as well has a lot especially right now going into the summer season too. So um you know no matter what
any any employee appointed to this uh is going to be a lot of work added to their plate. Um there's a process laid out here, you know, to change appointments, you know, how how how we go about doing that. It's
fairly simple. Um and I I I'm I'm happy to step up and um you know, take the training. Um I think yeah, I think I think uh the only you know, not not as a a a you
know, a negative towards Cheryl. I think that the amount of time I've spent going through all of these documents and the negotiation of these documents, I'm a little bit more up to speed as to
what the next steps are. Um, so it I think there's value in that in as far as setting up that governance model and being familiar with what the roles and responsibilities are and how the process should work. >> I think the goal would be once we're done, everything's in place
>> and and Yeah, exactly. So that's not how it works. you you are going to have um more intense time drain during the renovation for sure, right? >> But whatever governance model you set up
should be a blueprint for how you make those major decisions. Okay? Because any renovation, even if it's a new roof or, you know, someone wants to do something, you're you're setting up a model. Okay? and um
and we haven't brought anybody other than the people in this room up to speed on, you know, some of the complexities there. So, yeah, I'm totally, like I said, I think it make a great trustee. I just um you're going to have some intensive time and I would certainly
recommend um that somebody tag along and learn with you. Don't do it by yourself. >> That's really really important. whether it's Cheryl or somebody else. >> Right. >> Right. >> Yeah, that's a good point. I I mean,
Tony, you're gonna have to be involved >> closely with the building part of it anyway. >> Yep. >> So, I mean, once you guys get to that point, >> you know, you could maybe it's Nate, I don't, you know, and switch gears.
the uh key hurdle right now is getting it done and then it's going to be a learning curve for anybody who steps in. And you've got >> except you. >> Yeah. I mean, you've already you're you're light years ahead of anyone else that you try to train to take over. But
I think you can we can ease into that. And if you're overwhelmed or something happens, like I say, you can walk downstairs, walk down the hall that no one else has that ability to to do. I think the Cheryl suggestion is a good one. It's kind of a a shadow person.
She's going to have to know all of this stuff anyway. >> I would imagine >> because she she's operationally going to have >> I would imagine folks like Nate, Cheryl, Mary are going to be in the room part of, you know, listening
in on that. They may not be trustees at the moment, but I think they need to stay close >> the whole time anyways. And then in a way they they're being trained. Yeah, I think that uh right now parks and wreck is set up to take care of handle a lot of the uh the use of the building.
>> All right. They do it all the time with the the chapel with Tux Point. And so it just one more uh so Cheryl's got that already under control, but as as Kathy points out, there were a lot of issues that we don't know what the issues are until we get there. So
>> Kathy has some insight having been there. um how long do you think it would take to come up with a a governance doc? So I think um first of all um after listening to the FinCom meeting I think it's very
important we have this discussion with them. Okay. Because there are layers. We're adding a whole new layer on to doing stuff. All right. And I just made a little short list here of you know the startup of the condo association. You know you you need to set up bank
accounts. You need to determine the budget. you need to make sure your insurance is in place, protecting the new entities, blah blah blah, you know, like there's all sorts of running a business stuff. >> Um, and so personally, since the town is paying for
a lot of stuff, I think the Masons should take the lead, I hope they would, on some of the administrative work. Um, that would be, I think, a good partnership model to get us going. Um, we're providing funding and they're
going to get a great renovation out of it. Um, I would like to see if they can take the lead on some of these startup cost. They have they have a lot of >> Okay, that that's a trustee negotiation rather than >> Well, something >> but it goes to who should be the
trustee, right? So, um, I think in terms of how long I mean, it's a I don't know anybody on the Mason side who's done this before, so they may already have expertise. If any of them have trustee expertise, that would be another reason
to let them take the lead on some of this stuff. Um Um, and that would certainly >> Well, property management. >> Yeah. And that's different than being a trustee. I'm just asking if they've had the experience. So, I don't know.
>> I don't know. I Yeah, I was going to say I know they have real estate or property management experience. I'm not sure if it's directly condo type trustee type. >> But but dealing with insurance, dealing with bank accounts, >> they've done all that stuff, but more the the key thing about the trustee is
they have to it's the governance who gets to make what decision. That's really anybody can come up to speed on that pretty quickly. It's living by that that is that can be tough. >> Um you you especially in a small association, you just want to set people
around the table and make decisions. Well, do the pe the people have to be cognizant of are the right people sitting at the table at the time to make the decision. That's really the crux of it. Um,
so I mean can be a week, can be a year, >> depends on how interested they are in learning. >> Well, let's say that we put Tony and um Brian in an interim
position. What kind of timeline would be is fair? Maybe that's a decision that we should make after town meeting because we don't even know if the 300K is going to get approved. >> Well, whether it does or not,
>> does it or not? We still own this condo. So, we have to >> cond the roof if it leaks. And >> I'm just saying that it it gets a lot simpler if >> it probably gets harder, >> right? Probably does get hard.
Um, >> okay. I'm going to move that we appoint Brian and Tony to be the trustees for a term not to exceed nine months. >> Second, the same.
>> Come on, you can vote for yourself. >> Sure. Yes. >> Um, Kathy, >> yes, >> John. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we have at least the beginnings of a structure. Um, if you could >> come
in the paycheck. >> Sorry. What? Um, if you could continue the list that you have of things that should at some point we're going to need a a um a select board policy on nomination of trustees.
>> Sure. >> And after I'm done with the tree policy, but I'll continue to make my list. Yeah. Then at some point you and I can sit down and >> yeah have sit. I already sent Tony the information on the training. I'll just forward to you what I already sent him. >> Right.
>> Okay. >> Got through that one. Um the next thing on the agenda is a meeting motions. Uh, I would look at the pack the packet I gave you. Um, you have the motions in front of you
and you have a master list. >> Uh, I went through or rewatched last year's town meeting, looked at um the motions that were prepared for last year's town meeting. most of uh the your
names that I put on the ma on the master list for making a motion or seconding it mirrors what occurred last year. Um, and then where there are new articles that were not part of last year's warrant,
um, I mostly leaned on the liaison, uh, positions, you know, so if it's, um, like for instance, PAS, Prop 2 and a half, Kathy, I I put you there because you've been part of the facilities as an example.
Um, so, uh, I have not all of these articles require opening comments during town meeting, >> but I also wanted to kind of just jot down um,
if we were going to do opening comments on any of these articles, you know, who was going to make those and just keep a list of that as well. Uh so I'll just run through them and and uh you guys let me know I guess if uh if
you have any changes in mind if that does that work. Um, I will want to speak very briefly on elected salaries just because I like having people laugh at me with um and I think
I will make a comment on budget and capital. Okay. >> All right. So, article one I have Kathy making the motion. John seconding it. Two, I have Ann making the motion for
elected salaries and Jeff making the second. For three, uh, prior year bills. I have Brian as the motion and Kathy as the second. Somebody's going to you Tony are you planning to speak to that or
>> yeah for for a lot of for mo I think for the majority of these that we don't initiate conversation with opening comments I have a list of potential questions that might might come up and I'm be prepared to answer those if they
are raised during the meeting. >> It would >> number three we we've had that in previous >> I don't think and I didn't I don't think I said anything to it. No, I don't think uh I this is $21,000. I don't know what the the amount has been in previous years.
>> The either I imagine Eli will start that article with you know prior year bills requires a fourfits vote because this is a bill that was resum and then the book explains what those bills are.
I can I can I can either, you know, just answer questions if they come up or >> stand up right away and read what's in the book or, you know, give any other background necessary. >> But I'll put my initials down here.
>> Uh, town budget and with Sarah Melish seconding >> and same for article five capital. Sarah will speak first. I will speak probably speak second. Um article six senior community center.
So we have I have the motion here. Uh as you can see we this is the only you know the only article that the select board and the finance committee haven't made uh their recommendation yet. In the book it says that it will be made at the town
meeting. Um I did uh I I did get a recap of Thursday night's meeting which I wasn't there. I asked the finance committee to send me over some of the questions that they had. I
received some of those questions. Working today to put together response to that and send it over to the finance committee before Thursday so that they can uh decide how they're going to make their recommendation. Um I think we could have that discussion
now in preparation for that. Um >> I think I I have heard the finance committee once, but I think I'd like to hear the finance committee again. >> I agree. before we make our recommendation. >> I think everybody should hear the finance committee's questions and
they're really governance questions. I mean, I think they're generally supportive of wanting to um see the project move forward, but it's the timing and did we skip steps and did. So, I it's just I think we all should hear from them.
>> Um would you like to discuss some of those now just as in preparation for Thursday night? I think that' be good because Okay, I'm ready. They I mean the flip side of that is that if we go into that meeting with say
supporting that that can perhaps help them along in terms of well >> no no no >> but I mean the uh two other committees have already supporting it and reck and council on nature vote for it and just
John because you're going to be making the motion and this is probably part of my liazison report as well I sat it on the parks and recck committee meeting last Wednesday night and a good part portion of the meeting was about this particular article. >> Uh taking money out of the revolving
fund is not unique. >> Uh >> no, they've done it before. >> Last time we did it was I think four years ago and we took $500,000 >> for the uh town's portion of uh >> for the fields >> playground and uh it didn't leave back
then. that didn't leave them strapped and this won't leave them strapped either. There's plenty of money in the revolving account after that. Uh those are some of the questions that one of the couple of members under uh parks and rec asked a question. So as a result uh
I'm sure Cheryl is prepared to speak either they you know in broad terms or even uh uh narrow it down to the nuts and bolts as to where the money comes from. How come the money how come there's so much money in that account? That's gonna be a question.
>> Yeah, that wasn't even one of the ones they asked. I thought >> Did they ask that four years ago? >> Huh? >> I don't know. >> They asked that four years ago. >> It came up at the finance committee. >> Okay. >> And and the answer was that the park
parks and recck does a very good job of running their programs and they make a profit. >> Right. Right. >> Anybody here? I think the the biggest concern that I heard and I if I misunderstood it you were sitting in the room so if I misunderstood anything you know sometimes the tape is a little bit yeah
>> um hard to hear. Um first concern was I I think we have had a lot of discussions during our executive session around how you know during the negotiation about how this condo stuff is going to work. we haven't had the opportunity to really
explain some of that to the the finance committee. So, I think they they asked some governance questions. You know, who who's taking the lead on this? Who's the project manager? Who's taking the lead? There were questions that, you know, I think Andrea was in the room, but could not be easily answered. Um the other
question they asked was, "Well, um we gave them $50,000 last year for um design so we could go out for fundraising. What is this $350,000
for? What what is the end deliverable?" Okay. That we are going to get and that for whatever reason that question was not succinctly answered in the FinCom meeting really. >> Okay. Yes. >> Um It is an easy question to answer, but it wasn't answered. So then they started,
you know, they're pulling a thread. >> Okay. Um, the other question that was, so they asked, "Who's going to take the lead? What are we getting for the 350?" Um, I think >> that's a pretty easy answer to >> Yeah,
>> I followed up on the first one, Kathy, while you looked that up. um and asked, you know, is that is is with Sarah and asked her, you know, is that is that question about, you know, how the process works with the Masons? Is that who internally in the town hall is the
project manager? Is that you know, who are we hiring as an architect? You know, what what what's the question, >> right? >> And and she said the question is who internally is going to be managing that project. So that h you know as far as
construction related items that has been Nate and will continue to be Nate >> right but who's going to be feeding Nate the requirements right Nate is >> right so that I presume would be Cheryl since she's running all the you know her team is running the program someone in
her organization's got to be feeding Nate requirements basically you know we did expand the concept to include parks and wreck and I I think it's it wasn't clear to fin who's driving the train is you know so it was some of that
>> we're going to be >> I'm not questioning that we don't have answers I'm just saying this is what happened at the meeting >> want somebody needs to decide what needs to be built >> right >> we've got a picture of what could be built >> but we want want to make sure >> requirements
>> excuse me >> and it's not the architect who determines the requirements >> right exactly >> but the architect fits with the client >> what he has on several occasions. >> Several occasions. >> We we have we have drawings that both parties say the same sense. I understand
parks and wreck are there, but they're there largely because there is a space that they can use. Now, is that space going to get changed for what they do? I don't think so. >> I I think the space that's there is >> is uh quite quite adaptable for
everything they're going to do. To go through another session of okay, let's sit down and see how we're going to change this. Again, >> I don't I don't think that's what was being suggested. I just it wasn't clear who was driving the bus. >> And is the end user,
>> but you're going to have a contractor, right? >> You're gonna have an architect and probably Nate on our side is going to be driving this construction. >> Nate got his license, too. And that was a big key, too. Let me let me let me um preview I guess how I'm going
to answer that question uh you know to the finance committee to this point the concept of this of the floor plan and what's nec what's needed or requested has gone through you know Nate's been at
the table kind of keeping track of all that along with John Harden our architect and that went through a public process with uh stakeholders, you know, itemizing things that were, you know, really wanted to be part of the floor plan.
Uh this next 350 is to move that concept plan to full design. Questions that may come up during that process, which I think, you know, Nate's the lead on, but I think the facility planning committee is going to have a big uh hand in. Some
of the decisions there are um you know what's the design life of the building? What are the cost drivers as far as utilities? Um you know are we are we adding are we doing solar on the roof or not? you know those those are more final
you know not concept phases kind of completed and then we're going to the more detailed discussions related to full design and I think the facility planning committee kind of like what happened with Lincoln Street well you
know when that first when when that came in front of the facility planning committee those those questions started to come up and and answered and discussion >> right so they they also did that's what I mean by governance. They also were disappointed that this was put on the warrant before the facilities planning
committee got a chance to take to take a look. >> I heard that comment as well. Um, >> so >> this this >> but at the timing was just off. This predates the facility planning committee being created and the pro the charge of the facility planning
committee >> in relation to this project really would happen in this next phase. uh like I guess similar to Lincoln Street Well, you know, or other projects of that nature, you know,
that the facility planning committee really doesn't doesn't get in in involved in the concept phase of a project. they get involved in the detailed elements of the project so that when it goes to the finance committee
for construction dollars they can look to the facility planning committee and say has this been you know have all these questions been answered have all these details been ironed out. So I think even if the facility planning committee
had been uh created years ago, they just started in I think August of last year, it really wouldn't be in front of them yet. This is if the 350 is approved, that's when the facility planning committee really kind of gets more involved.
So I think it's Nate is the answer with facility planning committee being involved in those decision- making. And then if if the once we get to 75% design an updated cost estimate
dependent on you know what happens with fundraising uh what happens with potential grants and looking at that delta cost to the town for construction. There may be a point in time there where we have to think about scaleback options and that
would kind of reintroduce the stakeholders and the facility planning committee. I >> I think the key question that has to be answered and you correct me if I'm wrong is what exactly are we getting for the 350K? Question one. Question two, who's
leading it from a town perspective? Sounds like it's Nate. And three, how and when is the facilities planning committee engaged at what points? I think you answer those three questions that would be helpful.
>> So, we got two of the three there. The third is >> I'm sorry. And also be able to answer what did we do with the 50k we already gave them? That was a little bit of a >> um I don't want to say a sore spot, but it's it's all communication. That's really what I'm getting. So the we met
with John Harden and Nate and I met with John Harden last week. Um made it clear that we needed a full scope of work delivered before town meeting. I have a draft of that that I'm going to share with the finance committee, but it goes through, you know, really explains kind
of what we're getting for that 350 >> superficially. It sounds exactly like the argument we gave for the 50. >> Exactly. That's that's exactly right. The 50 was for preliminary documents. Now you need documents to build.
>> What what what I'm saying is that nothing that we've had in writing in the in the book or in the book u in the warrant says specifically that we are going for construction project. >> Right. Right. They're good. The finance
committee was asking very reasonable questions. Well, sometimes >> uh last time when we said it's rather than call it schematics, I wanted to call it >> construction construction >> and it's in the motion. >> I I double checked and we you know it it
wasn't ne necessary but just to be extra clear. Yeah. >> The motion says and full structure. >> I look at I'll get three permutations of drawings >> to price up. One be a schematics of draw and we get budgets. Okay. I always go
high on my budget numbers, right? I take a big bite at the apple and hopefully I can keep it later on. Then we might get design drawings and then the last set is construction documents and that's what contractors will get a hold of. They'll send them out to their subcontractors.
Okay? And that's where they get hard numbers. >> What we're looking at now is construction documents. what we're looking to create is construct and what we'll I assume we'll take a look at it >> and ask for some add alternates deduct
alternates if that's the case like I think solar is a great idea there might be even some money out there for solar panels okay so these are the >> right and so I think then part of the governance discussion is exactly who makes what trade-off decisions right
what decisions is Nate empowered to make what are you guys as trustees empowered to make versus having to come back to the full board? >> I think almost the full board for when it comes to those my opinion. I'm just going to say yeah but those are >> when it comes to real actual
construction we're not talking you know moving a wall here we're talking about the actual what kind of HVA system would you want to use the cost associated with that >> uh even siding would you want to use or do you want how do you plan those are
things I think the town will have to make or or will make it in conjunction with this sport >> let me ask this question so we committed to the senior center Okay. All of us and we need have to have
documents to construct and move forward. We've found the money to do that. So, we're willing to build a senior center, but we're not willing to recommend approval for the documents to build. It does not make any sense to me.
>> Exactly. Thank you. >> No, we wouldn't phrase it that way. I would say, >> well, this this is my this is my personal opinion right now. >> What it sounds like. >> So, >> here's a carrot. We're taking that away. >> If we're really behind this thing, then
we need to be behind it. If if this fails, what is our path forward? >> So, the key you have to remember, we've been involved in a lot of discussions that the other committees and the rest of the town have not been engaged. We haven't brought everybody along with us,
right? >> I understand that. So, I think the key thing to answer your question, we went to town meeting to get a million dollars to buy the condo. Buy it. >> Yeah. >> We said no tax dollars for anything else. It's all going to come from
fundraising. That was step one. Step two was oops, we need $50,000 to do some schematics so people can at least visualize what we want to fund raise. Okay. Now we're coming back a third time asking for $350,000
because the estimate has ballooned and we're not sure we can fund raise all of that. >> But we've also added a community center to this. >> I understand but remember the town not everybody has kind of caught up with that. >> I understand but it but for us to make a
decision to say yes we're behind this. We can still explain that. we can still have those conversations and we can still have the people catch up to us. >> I agree with that. I think the finance and I'm just trying to parrot what I thought I heard it f the finance committee's concern wasn't that they
wouldn't support the project. It was about timing and they used the phrase did we skip any steps that that's really what the concern was >> I think >> does it have to be right now that was the >> well without these documents it's going
to hamper our fundraising we needed this money anyway >> no I understand but I'm just trying to >> S's point I think the intent two years ago was put that money back fund raise okay this was a short-term loan all right the $50,000 the $350,000
That was going to be a short-term loan that would get started as opposed to waiting three years to come up with the money. >> Actually, >> actually the Greg asked for 200,000 last year. >> That's right. >> Income. >> Cut it back. >> Cut it back to 50,
>> right? >> Which essentially only got us to 10% conceptual design, which is what the estimated cost of construction is on. Um, so you know, we're kind of here again, uh,
you know, to to get that full process of what's next and to get a true cost estimate, you have to put the 350 into place to make to be able to answer those a lot of those questions. So to me, I think, you know, had had $200,000 been
approved last year, we would have had significantly more design completed, more information, more of the process completed. Some of that was >> you know some of that was kind of
layered into you know public forum closing on the on the property having a discussion with you know that's when we kind when we came back after doing the 10% cost estimate and the price had come back high then we met with the select
board the council on aging board and the masons and talked about that individually And that's when we said, well, okay, the current estimated cost exceeds the estimated feasibility of fundraising,
which is different from what we had said to the town meeting a year ago or two years ago. Um, so it's reasonable to expect that eventually when we go to construct this project that the town's going to have to put additional dollars
towards that. And the discussion was, well, if we're going to do that, then the use of the building needs to expand so we can um get kind of full use of the of the entire building. And and that's, you know, now we didn't put any numbers
to that at that moment. Um, but I think we that was a that was a moment where we committed to keeping the ball rolling forward. um which then you know and then obviously the the most recent momentum is closing
on the property. >> So the way that I envision this going is uh if the 350 is approved the full design is developed and all the way to construction documents. Fundraising is then happening
uh informally and then eventually formally. Um >> wait wait wait wait wait. fundraising doesn't start until we have >> well it's >> informally it's already started informally there's a technicality in
>> with ECCF as to when they can formally start to collect dollars so right now it's through pledges yeah so that's informal >> on pledges right now >> we are in a hold because the document just got signed with the Masons the donors that we have talked to initially
had the same concerns concerns relative to making sure that the deal closed. The second piece is understanding what the cost is. We have people that are lined up and saying, "Yes, I'm happy to step in. How much is it going to cost? What are we looking at in terms of dollars?
What are you looking to raise?" We originally went out for now three million. Now we know it's upwards of six, seven, whatever. We need to get to the point where we understand that this 350 to get the construction documents which nails down the cost becomes our
target. So what we're doing is we're doing letters of commitment to people that are willing to step forward to almost a tea of the people that we talk with and I have a meeting with my fundraiser advisors Thursday. Um they want to wait and see what happens at town meeting but they have the document.
It's been vetted through ECCF. It's a letter of commitment. It's a promisory document um and that's what we will use as an in piece and accept donor dollars have been told. >> But is there any way that is there any way that we can share
what the level is of these um commitments in the pipeline I'll call them? >> No, >> not not individuals but not even a total. >> Well, I think you know I it's so early in the process. I mean, we can give a general number, but it's not I wouldn't call it reliable, and I wouldn't want to
step out if somebody >> if we I guess my question would be because I think this is what J may ask is if we spend the 350 to get the construction documents, which would include an estimate, right, a real estimate of construction dollars, right,
that we need >> eventually. Yes. >> Right. Um then how much and how long does it take to get these construction done? Like we approve the 350 that's allocated. I mean we have the money now. >> He said he could have it have um
75% design by October with a new with an updated cost estimate. >> That's right. Because we were shooting for the next town meeting. >> Well either if we're shoot you know if we're going in front of town meeting in November. Yeah. We need an updated cost estimate by October. Right? If we're
doing it in the spring of next year, the prep work for that and the finance committee process of capital request starts in November. >> So either way, we need an updated number. So if we get an updated number estimate
cost of construction by October, how long will it take for you Susan to get us a realistic um fundraising target? >> Oh, we should have a target by then. I would think what I'm saying is is that
we're doing the work informally right now, >> right? Because >> but and I understand what you're saying. I think that the point is is that we need to be able to work in parallel to this process and it needs to be very clear that the 350 is coming the
documents are coming October say you know whatever and that we've got conversation that has started with some of these major donors about this process and I think the more they see about the validity and and to your point how this
has been vetted um the stronger people will feel comfort comfortable coming forward and saying I'm willing to sign on this dotted line. So my goal would be by October, November time frame, is to have a pretty good number of where we're starting what I call the quiet phase, right? Which is getting the larger
donors in and engaged so we can get a sense of what that looks like because if we do go back, which would be the plan, I would think say next year at this time for short-term bond, we need to know what we're willing to step up to and what the town is going to be asked to
cover if we don't, what that delta would look like. So the goal is to get this fundraising going in a parallel process to this so that we can actually get some commitments and understanding of what that is. But at this point um it's it's it's a lot of conversations and we all
it's relationships it's arguing it's all of that. So and I'll have a better indication after I meet with my folks tomorrow. >> The the elephant in all of in this room is what is this number going to be? We were all shocked when they came back. I think the elephant in the room is how
much do we think we'd have to go um back to town meeting. >> Well, this this is all based upon >> you had promised them no tax dollars. >> It's it's all because we don't know exactly what the bottom line is and I don't know >> we don't know what we don't know. I want to revisit what what what Jeff said
which is I don't I want to I don't know why the uh FINCOM is wagging the tail. Okay. Wagging the dock. We made a commitment. The select board said we're going to do this. We want to do this. Uh I think that we I'd like to vote on it
now. You know, I think >> it's timing. >> It's not timing. It's timing. Do we support Does this board support? >> I'm not sure, but I do support a $7 million project. Right. I think that with $7 million, we could do something better elsewhere.
>> Right. So, I I to follow on with what Anna is saying is if you told me it was going to cost $7 million for the renovation and Susan can raise $7 million, right? >> Yeah. >> If you tell me that's coming out of tax dollars, we got to take a look at all of
our other priorities first and have a conversation with the town about the new DPW, the police, and all of that other stuff first. So, that's what I mean by timing. >> But we're talking at this point, we don't know. And the only way we're going to know is if we support
taking the money from the revolving account to start the process of developing construction documents. And that's as far as the the costs go. We'll we'll we'll when we get there, but we can't say no to something we don't
know about yet. >> Going to meet with fin in two days. I mean, really, we can't wait two days. I'm not going to let the pin con. I mean, it's it's >> So, play devil's advocate. Play play devil's advocate for one minute. >> I think it's worth us listening to what
they have to say and their questions because they didn't say they didn't like the project. They were just asking why now? Why not do it at Fall Town? >> Well, that they weren't unsupportive. >> Let me ask this question. Okay. If we
don't if this fails and we don't do this now and we have to wait till next town meeting and maybe it fails then because we don't get behind it. >> What does that look like raising money and moving forward right now? >> I think it I think it's a a huge
detriment to the ability to raise money. I think it increases the total cost of the project as time goes on and I think it I think it's um you know obviously it shows kind of a lack of
>> support >> and and honestly to me I don't >> I understand to your point I think and and to your point Ann I think that that question that you're raising is an important one that will come in the future and I I think it has to be
discussed at the time when we're thinking about how much are we going to ask the taxpayers to contribute to the construction dollars and we'll know better then what the true cost is and you know what level of fundraising commitment andor potentially grants you
know and what the delta is and that's when you say well how does that compare to the other priorities and is now the right time at this point the 350 doesn't make us uh you know we are any
more committed to the project than we are >> but it makes us a lot >> today. Without it, it makes us less committed. So So that's my we're we've closed on the property >> with the intention of seeing this
through. The 350 allows us to do that. >> Let me let me make a totally political argument. I don't want the finance committee and the select board to have a big fight fight on town meeting floor and I think if we walk in
and say we support this 100% the people on the finance committee are going to get their backs up >> and they're going to vote it down and then we are going to have that plan >> right and >> I think we will do better pulling it pulling the big meeting together. >> Let's listen to what they have to say. I
I don't I don't see the harm in waiting two days to have an honest discussion with them. I think we can answer their questions. Tony has good answers for their questions and gain their support for the 350. And if not, I'd rather know
that now than than at town meeting floor. I' I'd rather hear them. I'd rather hear them now. >> Well, I agree. I don't don't want to get the finance committee mad. >> Finance committee is already a little mad. Maybe maybe they are, but but you
know and I understand maybe they have some questions about the process and how come it's so late etc. At the end of the day, we still don't know what this is going to cost. They've got a six or seven million number which I don't think many of us really think. >> I think it's four and a half to five. >> That's the real That's the real number.
And the fact is that Susan has data that says three million that's really not a problem. >> Not a big problem. Okay. And maybe 4 million isn't a big prize. You know, 7 million, you have no idea what the story is. But it might be that there's enough interest out there that you don't have
to go to the town at all. >> If the number comes in low enough >> to close that gap and if the finance committee is looking for some sort of a well, I want a guarantee to know and they're smart enough to know they're not going to get a guarantee, but are we going to have to go back to town? We
don't know that. But I'll tell you the 350 is going to give us a lot more information about getting that answer. >> These are all good arguments. I think that the we will get better cooperation from the finance committee if we don't walk in saying we've made our decision
now you join us. >> All right. Well, let let me say this. What happens if we meet on Thursday and we're still seeing two different sides of this? >> And that's okay. It's good to have differences of but I I think there's a way of disagreeing respectfully. It's different than we're kind of blindsided
them. And when you think about it, any major any other major capital thing that's on this warrant went through a long discussion on Thursday nights when Tony met with the finance committee, you know, at their weekly meetings that it
was vetted. Okay. And then we kind of this kind of surprised them. And I don't blame them for being a little, you know, taken aback. The least I think we owe them is an opportunity to have a meeting and answer their questions. And if we disagree, we've disagreed before and that's okay. And then the town will make
the decision. But I just think >> I guess I guess I just don't understand why our opinion or some of our opinions why we're all tied together. >> It's not tied together. Is that because this is in my in just my opinion.
>> It's not like we're saying we we don't like you finance committee because we're behind this. This is a s potentially a significant finance financial cost, right? And it was not included in the long-term plan. You know, the 20 or
30year plan that Greg had laid out for all of our big capital expenses. This this wasn't in there, you know, and so and it didn't get vetted during the weekly meetings when they were doing the budget. So, I just I just think, >> you know, they were caught a little offguard. I don't blame them for that.
They have questions. I think we get to them. >> I'm I'm simply trying to have provide you kind of some of the answers that I plan to provide them so that you can use this opportunity now to discuss maybe some other concerns you might have
so I can pro, you know, make sure that I have those too. I don't think it hurts for the select board to have this discussion now and be prepared. >> We're having the discuss. I'm just trying not to have a vote. Right.
>> So, are there other um you know, questions or concerns that any of you have that you want answers to before Thursday that are different from the finance committee
questions or concerns? >> I don't have any questions. I just think you need to be prepared to outline. Okay. you know, the the sequence of events. Okay, so let's say town meeting approves the 350, then Nate goes out to
um I guess RFP or RFQ, whatever it is to to get the >> to hire someone or did you already do that? >> We did that in order to bring St. Louis on already. >> Okay. So then they signed the contract with them to get the construction documents prepared. We expect to receive
that information by Octoberish, whenever it is. In parallel, here's what else is going to happen. Susan's doing XYZ on the fundraising. Um the schematics and um the facilities committee will do a deep dive. I just think you need to lay out all the steps that will happen
between town meeting if they approve it and like Octoberish. Okay. What are the different >> Susan? Let me let me ask you. I mean, so we approved the 350. I don't know how much you can do in the summer because you still don't have a number.
>> Well, understood, but you know, again, it's about intent and understanding. Yes. And when there is an intent and town meeting has voted, again, >> the the people that we're talking to >> are looking to the decision makers. Who are the people at town meeting? You know, they look to the governance of
finance meeting board for recommendations because they know you do your due diligence. They understand that, but at the end of the day, they want to hear what the community has to say. And I think I feel pretty strongly that if we get a positive 350 and move ahead with this that we'll be able to
use that and talk to them and say now our next step is to your point >> you know October we'll have this and it it is a it is a a threshold process and we need to define what that is for people and get comfort you know I wish it could all be tied up in a bow and
perfect it's not but I do think that the intent and the the will of town meeting will help drive forward those conversations. That's >> okay. Well, the 350 is is another vote of, you know, it's another vote of confidence. >> Absolutely. >> You know, and uh it's not six million if
six is the number or five or four or whatever the number is, but it's >> just I think it's good to have the conversations with boards. It's good to flush this out and have people see and understand that it has been a thoughtful process. you know this falls so far out
of the boundaries of most of the things that we've ever done before you know so right but I think that there's a lot of things we don't know but we're learning them and we're taking every step very carefully very diligently and very
strongly focused to say we are following a process that we have and I think to your point answering questions having those comments is really important but I feel like progress needs to keep going forward I mean, as long as it took to sign these documents, it was progress
going forward. And that's what's important, I think, for the donor side. >> Um, as far as the potential, as slight as it is, I might have a a better rough order of magnitude of the pricing by Thursday.
I sent what we had for schematics uh the the full uh good for 12 that we voted on sent to a contractor and it does it's a >> municipal work. >> He does union municipal work and this is
although it's uh they've done it before and I just at this point I'm not we have to go out to the bid process but he owes me a favor and I asked him for if he could just take a look at these and get me a rough order of magnitude. Is it $7 million? Is it $5 million? Okay.
>> That's that's a big >> Yeah, so hopefully he was out. I sent it to him last Thursday. He's been out Tuesday. So I'll rattle his skates tomorrow. It's about just looking at square footage and getting a sense of construction materials and how it's going to go.
>> Right now we're at a,000 bucks. >> It's, you know, I think it's closer to $500. >> Argue. Well, it' be nice to have somebody else's opinion >> and uh you know they're for us. They don't you know they they did a JCC. I mean they they've done these kind of
>> community centers in the past and we've worked on them. So they have a good working relationship with the guy. >> Most of the MSBA projects that I've been involved with are looking like 650ish a square foot >> and that's union that's full.
>> But that's but that's coming out of the ground, >> right? >> No, not necessarily. >> Okay. Yeah, right. >> I think you want just want to It's great to have as much information as possible. >> I think you want to be just, >> you know, just look at this. It's slavon grade,
>> but when we communicate that to the public, >> really important to emphasize that that's based on a 10% conceptual design. >> People remember numbers and they don't let you forget it. And that's why we're having this conversation because they
remembered that it was only going to cost a million and everything. House was not coming tax dollars. That's what they remember and we have to >> I I think I think that >> I to you know I know I I'll probably be
making comments at town meeting as to the process similar to the explanation I'll provide on Thursday night. I know John's going to make some comments too. And to that point, I think rather than, you know, kind of dance around that point, I think it's important to state
that yes, that was the plan, >> right? >> That was stated. That was when it was estimated off of what you I'm not sure, but around a$2 to3 million cost with an understanding that there
could be two to3 million fundraised. that changed drastically as did you know with construction costs. It wasn't really so much that the square footage changed. It was just the true cost estimate the or
the first initial cost estimate. >> The initial cost estimate did not perceive this would be a municipal project with all of the >> No, it did. >> Did it? >> It did have some offices in >> some No, no, no. I mean um >> No. What happened was the original the original thought was to have the Masons
build out the building for >> and then we would pay them. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But >> that ran into legalities. >> There were some legalities there. So the original So we understood and we did and the reason we wanted the Masons to do it was to get over on Davis Bacon. >> Okay.
>> That didn't work. >> That that's what I'm saying is I think the two million or whatever we heard. >> No. Well, again, Greg, you know, he Greg's the one that came up with that number >> and and that was four years and three years ago. >> Yeah. And it was probably closer to five years ago when he started thinking about the number.
>> So, I think I think, you know, it's important to just be transparent and say that changed once we got an updated cost estimate of 5.7 million. And then when we layered in
soft costs and and and other items, it grew to close to se you know 7 million. And that's when we talked about scaleback options. We did that analysis. We just decided to stick with the concept number one and expand the use of
it. Mhm. >> Um, now we don't know today what that what that cost is going to be down the road and we don't know how much of that cost is going to fall on the
town. That that discussion will need to be had at that time. But we can't get to that discussion without the 350 now. we beat this horse. >> So, I again I have a list of questions
that uh sent to me by a couple members. If you guys have any others, send them to me. I will uh draft a response with as much information as I can and then we'll we'll decide a
recommendation Thursday. >> Um that was six. So six >> seven I lost track. Is that something? So John will have an introductory statement and that okay >> I put something together already. Mhm.
>> Um seven. >> And then and then I guess after that then you will probably follow up with some comments that are more specific to some of the process. >> Yeah. >> And then we'll see how many hands go up. >> Um and we're working Tiffany and I are
working on a one-page document as a handout. >> Oh, great. >> Which we'll send to you in advance as soon as we kind of get that done. It's it's almost there. So there'll be a handout at town meeting describing >> Can you have that by Thursday? >> Yes. Oh, absolutely.
>> Can you be with us on Thursday? >> Yes. >> That's important. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, >> I am going to go now. >> Yeah. >> Put it up early in the discussion here. >> Appreciate it. Please remember.
>> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> All right. Article 7 is Essex Tech. Jeff making the motion. Brian seconding it. >> Thanks, buddy. >> Uh, article 8, Manchester Essex Regional
School District. Uh, Chris Reid from the uh, school committee will make the motion and I have you making the second on there's three motions >> uh, and those are in the in your packet there. Uh the school will also be
printing those out as a handout. >> Opb uh Kathy, I have you as the motion with Ann as the second. um depending on you know the flow of town meeting you know I do think that that is
a uh worthy of a comment that this is >> gets us >> to paying it off >> you know one of four or five other communities >> in the entire state
>> so it's a big it's a big milestone worth recognizing but >> I like the idea of picking a victory lap with that one Yeah. Yeah. Kathy, you're gonna make some comments to that because >> I can. I was going to ask you if Sarah Malish would be wanting to do that, though. >> Oh, okay. All right. Well, somebody should
>> Yeah, it should be brought to everyone's >> should know. We do pay attention. >> Probably Sarah should speak first and and um either >> maybe that could be it. >> Yeah. I mean, I think we I think our our pattern has been for us to do introductory comments on everything.
Quite frankly, I don't think we got time to no >> this one. I think we just ought to pick and choose. >> Yes. >> You know, carefully >> those ask revolving funds. Brian motion and second
>> option by fast prop 2 and a half hour to 11. Kathy motion John second. >> Yeah. And I do think we'll need to say something like that. >> Yes, we do. Uh Colbert John Brian second >> then I have some comments that make
comments too. >> Dredging Jeff uh motion Kathy second. >> Ratunda Brian with Ann second. >> This probably requires some >> need some comments there.
I was thinking about that. >> Tapping Street. Kathy Jeff as the second. Snow and ice. John uh as a motion. Brian has the second. Water capital debt. Jeff as the motion.
Brian has the second. library prop two and a half. John is the motion. Kathy is the second. >> And I do have a little comment on that. >> Uh there's there's been some discussion about the library
potentially wanting to move up in the agenda on that which would require a floor action. >> Why why would we want to do that on proposed? um because the library is concerned that they won't get passed if we've gone through all of these big
bonding issues >> and that that it comes kind of naturally after the town capital. >> I spoke with Eli about that. >> Y >> and he wanted me to he his his comments
was that the mot the floor motion to take it out of order >> Yep. He would prefer it come from the select board. Okay. If the select board was >> okay >> comfortable with that. >> Okay. I will I will check with the li with the S I've been talking with Sarah
>> versus it looking like the library is just kind of on their own pushing for it to to move up that we're all aligned with that. >> Okay. And and the the rationale is >> um the rationale is that it fits naturally after the capital.
>> Okay. and um not after a bunch of bonding issues. And >> so is it proposed to be between articles five and six before the senior center? >> Yes. >> That was what I suggested. >> I mean, it is a capital exclusion as
opposed to a debt exclusion, but um >> No. Yeah, it's a capital. >> Yeah, it is. It's an exclusion >> and maybe that's why it kind of wound up there with all the exclusions. Um >> but uh it could be the first exclusion as opposed to the last one.
>> Yeah. >> And it's a one-year jump 10 or 20 years. >> My only uh comment on article five and six is that six was proposed as a part of article 5
and then the finance committee asked that it be broken out. So, I do like those being backtoback. Um, >> sure. But >> maybe after article six, between article six and seven. >> Okay. Um, as I said, I will check with my contacts of the library and see if
they care at all. And if they don't, we forget about it. >> And and would Sarah want to speak to that as opposed to someone from the select board? Do you think the introductory comment should come from the select board? Well, I've shared comments with the
library trustees. I put some together a week ago. They had a meeting. Um >> and and you you were you were you I've already got your initials there. Yeah. No, that's fine. >> They they they know what I'm going to say exactly what.
>> Excellent. >> So, but Sarah's there and Sarah's aware that if there are any specific questions, she is prepared. She knows what I'm saying and what I'm not saying. >> CPC article 19 Brian motion Jeff second.
Downtown zoning that these are planning board uh articles. Bri so the planning board will make the motion and the second and I got these from Sarah Kiteon. So uh Brian Frey will motion Gordon Bluer will second on the downtown
zoning. Uh on senior housing zoning it's Chris only motion Sarah Kryton second on ins zoning it's Peter Bourne motion Sue Philbrook second and they also have prepared amendments for those articles
if downtown zoning were not to pass. They have amendments for senior housing and the ins to exclude >> right yeah to to use the current zoning rather than the future zoning. Exactly. Okay. >> Yep. So those are prepared.
Um ADU's Sandy Bobmer Turner motion Chris only second. Driveway bylaw Sarah Kiteon motion S Phil Brook second. Sale of land Brian. Uh motion John second.
>> Do you think that uh Mark's gonna want to say anything? I do and I put him on Eli's list of non-resident speakers >> for which one >> for the sale of land.
>> Land. >> Yep. >> So that would that was one of my questions with legal whether it was a majority or twothirds and really that hinges on uh the control of the property
currently. and we couldn't find uh any type of previous town meeting vote as to who controls that piece of property. So legal said the safe way to do it is have the motion say that it's
transferring the custody to the select board for the purchase of a sale which does is a twothirds vote. >> Yeah. Um, I know we talked about this before, but the question is going to come up about the value. What What did we come up
with? >> Yeah, it was not. >> Yeah, I'm going to bid 1500 and sell it again for 2,000. >> Going to spend talking about it at buy and then just extort money out of them.
One second. I'll tell you I talked to Shireen about about that. Um, so many emails with Shireen about the Mason docs. I go back and find it, but
she had said getting the assessed value from the assessor was enough for town meeting purpose, which that's where we got the um >> 900 something. >> Yeah. >> And what is the square footage? We have
the >> 900. >> Yeah. >> 50 something square feet. It's >> now it goes in the tax rolls too. So we're good. >> That's a night at Callus. As long as you're drinking water
and don't order 914 square ft. >> Wait a minute. It's $1,000. So it's $8.20 is what? That doesn't even buy a beer. All right. One second.
>> See tomorrow. I'm sure she's like >> Well, anyways, I'll I'll find it. I'll forward it to you. >> She I did look into it. She felt >> I believe the question was >> whether uh
if an appraisal is needed if you know we can transfer that cost to the person who's purchasing and her answer was yes. But I think she even was saying it's may not even it's really up to us whether we're going to require that or not >> and assess value would be enough.
>> I'm sure there's going to be some kind of question about it. >> Yeah. >> He hasn't taken pat. >> I'm sorry I don't have this right up. Okay. You need to make sure that that somebody says that that that
this is on the stream. We've got the right to maintain the wall, go across it. >> So, you going to say that, Brian? >> Sure. >> Fill in the blanks on that. Oh, the appraisal is not required in order
to be devoted to but it may not be a bad idea to have some idea as to its value if has the town be um town may but is not required to obtain an independent third party appraisal. Most towns ask their assessor to
determine the value using customary appraisal techniques, which we did. And I have that from Dave, our interim assessor, which justifies the >> Okay. Yeah. As long as we can show >> Okay. knew I had that there somewhere.
Um, okay. So then uh the three citizen petitions, I have the lead petitioner name there and check that with Eli. They may be at the meeting Thursday as well. >> Um
and then the budget adjustment at the end uh if if needed. >> What does Eli think we can get through? Uh he's planning for a twoight meeting.
Um I think his thought is to see where we are around 8:30 9:00ish and then determine whether we should, you know, kind of set a hard German time. So uh for that to that
point, Kathy, thank you for bringing it up. Uh he's he's worked with uh legal counsel for a motion that would be made by Kan likely >> to postpone to the next day. >> Yeah. >> Yep.
>> Would he would he set a time based on the time or based upon getting to a certain article because there's some natural breaks here. I >> the end >> I believe that if by 9:15 we still have more financial articles to go through he
will um he will take the meeting through the end of the financial articles and then I will move to ajourn >> I mean that's what >> before the zoning articles is that what you're saying >> yes >> that would be the proposed break >> yes so we do the money first and there's
enough in the zoning articles said we should have no trouble getting a quorum particularly since that quarum is tight. >> Has there been I haven't seen any communication or giving the residents a heads up that this it's 50/50. We may be
going for two nights. >> Well, there's been a lot of people talking. >> I think I think there's a lot everyone I'm talking to. Yeah. You know, >> I think Eli mentioned it in in his cricket article. and he will probably explain in his
opening remarks that this is >> I hope so. >> Well, I'm just thinking >> people need babysitters or something like that. You know, sometimes getting a heads up is a good thing. >> Yep.
>> Okay. So, I don't I don't uh we in the in years past, we looked at the motions and you made your recommendations at the same time. This year, we did the recommendations already. You already made those votes. I don't think you necessarily have to vote to approve these motions. Um, and you
know, if anything comes up on Thursday night, we have to make some last minute adjustments. Um, I don't think there's a vote for you to take tonight on these motions, but You know, I
sorry we ran into the joke about the preacher who's sitting in front of a nice dinner of leftovers saying, "I believe I have be blessed before." Okay. Um leers on updates.
Anybody who's uh these go off their times >> that came up in a couple weeks >> the school committees just how they're going to
91 >> 91 >> 250. >> Yeah, I know. >> That's a hot >> What's uh what's uh at that number? What's what's the state uh possible share on that? >> The max is is 30%.
>> Max >> and um they don't do any of the landscaping. They don't fields and that stuff. and they will look hard at anything that's listed as a community space >> because that doesn't >> qualify. They're paying for schools
>> only. >> So, we're 25 million >> just 60 we're two that's 40 right there. >> That's a lot. What it made me think of though is when you um John when you talked about article six I think we
talked about metrics, right? how many seniors will they serve? You know, all of that stuff. You may not have time to go through that and may not need to, but it's good to have all of those metrics in your back pocket. I know Tony I asked Tony, I know he's got them. >> Um especially um
>> I'm I'm making a general comment or two in terms of the programs and the number >> but sheer numbers matter when we're asking for money because >> that may be part of the handout as well. >> Yes. Yes, it needs to be. you thought we need to emphasize what those numbers are.
>> There's a lot. So, we we spent some time, Tiffany and Susan and I today on that on the handout. This uh you know, trying to kind of narrow it down so it's not too much, but it's also hits all the important parts,
you know, which includes kind of looking back the history and and what has been accomplished to date. um the future use and all those data points and who it will serve, you know, COA, recreation,
um nighttime meeting space for the community, anything else, uh library possibly in off hours, you know, a number of different things. Um the funding source. Um
yeah, there's there's so many there's a lot of good data points to hit. It's just kind of trying to narrow it down for >> I don't know what's going to be in there. I'm just I'm thinking if John's going to be the one that talks to it, he may want to have those numbers in his back pocket. >> Um
>> maybe in front of him >> or maybe in front of Yes. >> I don't have I know Mary has some has some numbers. She's done that and I did ask her to get more numbers a couple of weeks ago. I was just making a general comment with regard to you know hundreds
etc etc but uh specific numbers I know that you've got some numbers behind that so maybe I'll ask her see what the story is she will also be at the meeting >> maybe Cheryl can speak too >> and I services >> I spoke with Cheryl in the same vein
because she has to say you I mean she's looking for space >> and maybe some stuff she doesn't do because she can't find space or it's very hard to find taste and she has to provide some metrics along those lines >> right now. Yeah. Well, we can talk about loss
wasting time on this now. >> She Mary and Cheryl put a lot of that data together for documentation that Susan wanted for the >> Well, we saw something to that effect two months ago with Cher.
>> Right. Exactly. Exactly. >> Yep. Um >> um okay other leaison office >> uh planning boards basically getting
polished up for town meeting um the um hy advisory area there I had talk about area 7 moorings again that looks like we're going to have that army corps engineers
permit That and the permit for dredging should be if it's not already here, it should be here pretty quickly. >> Fourth time meeting >> about that. But um they met with the downtown improvement about the flyers
for downtown explaining the different things and where they are. And uh they talked about waterproof boxes to have them on the peers downtown. >> Mhm. >> So they just flip it up and they could
grab a little pamphlet on I guess it's like a one page I know Kathy maybe you know. >> Sorry. Say that again. >> That um the flyers that downtown improvement is working on. What is is that just a one page thing or >> Oh. Yeah. >> Um I don't think it's any more than
that. >> Yeah. So, they were gonna >> have them on the peers down here. Yeah. Right. >> No, I'm I move around. I don't take flyers. I just take a picture of it, >> right? They have QR codes. >> There will be a QR code. >> Well, I mean, when you say the flyer, you got the copy right there. I just
take a picture with the >> There'll be a triple bold with >> Oh, that that's an issue. Okay. All right. It's not a one page. >> You lost it around fold it during copying. >> But yeah, there will be a QR code. >> Okay. or a few article something like that because we'd rather not have a whole lot of paper, right?
>> Yeah. Eventually, it's going to be all over the place. >> Um, in Essex Tech, we just been working on all our policies and manuals and employee handbooks and >> student handbooks and it's just that
time of year before next year. So, that's pretty much what's going on. Uh I'm pretty much touched on what uh last week's box and rec committee was. Like I
said, most of it was on this particular article six. Uh the the naming we should be seeing something for naming very soon. I'm surprised that hasn't Cheryl actually thought she submitted it and I think that we have to go back >> the naming policy for the the naming
policy. So, I'll follow up with that. >> Uh, >> not too soon. >> No, no, I mean, no one's in any hurry. We have to eventually once the once the signs are approved at uh with the CPC, we're going to have to figure out what's going to go on the signs, >> right?
>> So, we've got a couple weeks away. >> Um, >> we don't have to take it up two days from now. >> No, no, no, no, no. And then the only other thing that came up that I see is on the uh consent agenda is the uh little league parade.
which I if you read this is just to prove I do read these things sometimes. Why is Jason Clary signing off on this? >> Why is it on Saturday, April 29th? >> There you go. So, it's probably I'm guessing that when three years ago when
Jason Clary was the uh >> Yeah. >> basically cut and paste and they just did a lot of job doing >> Oops. Yeah. Oops. um facilities planning committee. Um we met once since the last select board meeting. What we
focused on was the scope or the RFQ that Chuck and Na going out for the um OPM the project manager for whatever it is we're going to build DPW police fire. um the they are going out with an RFQ to
help us figure out what the right option should be. So just like the school came forward and priced out multiple options so that the um you know committee could whittle down options and make good decisions we're taking the same approach
with with DPW police and fire. What are the options that we should be looking at? So we left on the table um you know renovating the fire department in place but we believe that both police and DPW
have to move. So that is um but there are like four I think four or five different options that we wanted this OPM to um help us think through and estimate and they I believe they're leaving the RFQ open so that the OPM
firm can tell us how they best work. Do they bring on an architect right away or do we have to hire an architect separately? So, there was some discussion about what the process is going to be, but Gordon and I are, um, pushed really hard to make sure the architect comes on before the architect
comes on board as part of making these decisions, not after the fact. So, um, we discussed that and then, so I think they're going out for that RFQ within the next few weeks, right, Tony? I think >> that's the hope. >> Yeah. >> Is this sounding like two separate
buildings or one? No, the the the point is people have lots of preconceived notions about what should be done and we need numbers, not just construction numbers, but cost of ownership numbers on what different options are. So Chuck asked us to get rid of some options. And
one of the options we took off the table was leaving the DPW where it was because >> fire, >> right? No, leaving the DPW where it was. We took that off the table. That's what you did about >> because in order to recreate a DPW facility somewhere else so they could
construct reconstruct Pleasant Street, it didn't seem to make financial sense to do that. So we said, "Okay, um plan on DPW moving." Um but the fire department, you know, if you free up Pleasant Street, you do have the ability
to perhaps remodel the fire department and give them some swing space on Pleasant Street while that remodeling is done. So, so we just we want the numbers. You know, like I said, everybody's got their own preconceived notions, but we'll get real numbers including operational costs and and
then, you know, everybody will make their >> recommendations to include opportunity costs. >> It's that's that's the all we have is ideas. We don't have any numbers with any of this stuff. So, that is the purpose of this RFQ to put some hard numbers to the options in front of
everybody. And then the other thing we talked about was the senior and community center. We talked about what our role could be. And I need to get your feedback on this as because I'm representing all of you on this facilities committee. One of the things
we talked about was um we didn't really talk about doing a deep dive on the community center plans itself. What we talked about was that if we go forward with this, if town meeting goes forward with this, then
we're going to be creating shared space. Okay? And lots of other people are asking about, you know, shared space, right? Um what do we do with the space that we leave behind here if we move people to the new condo, right? What do we do about Seaside One if some of those
people move over here? So the domino impact of shuffling administrative space is something that we see um as part of our charter to help you know think through. Does anybody have objections to that?
>> I think that was always the >> plan. I think that >> I mean going back to Greg, he thought land use would come over here, leave seaside and come over here. I mean >> stuff like that. kind of yeah thinking through the domino impact because a lot of people are asking for administrative
space and that is really what creates waste in buildings. Um >> I think isn't some of the problem though is is flooding here, right? >> Eventually move. >> Yeah. >> Police out.
>> Well, that's why police were saying has to move out. >> Well, I guess what I'm saying is how viable is that space going to be? >> Well, we still have second floor here. Yeah. That Cheryl will be, you know, hopefully moving out, right? And what do
we do with her space? and these DPA out of the basement, >> right? So, all of that creates opportunity, >> right? Okay. And do you want to help think that through? >> We did not really talk about doing a deep dive on the senior center community
center plans. So, if that is something you would like us to do, I need to know that and take that back to the committee. At some point, someone was going to have to do some value engineering. >> Okay. So, I I see Tony shaking his head.
Let me give you an example of what we did with um the Lincoln Street. Well, I I would say one of we when we did a deep dive on that because that was pretty far along also. Um but we I would say we took out some of the I don't want to call them bells and whistles, but
unneeded design elements. Okay. We spent a lot of time taking taking that out. So, for example, we asked questions about how the building would be utilized and we learned that no one really sits there all day. People just come and go. So, then we ask questions like, well,
why do you have all these windows? Oh, it looks nice. We wanted the building to fit into the neighborhood. You know what? Can we save money by getting rid of these windows here, but keep those up there? You know, just so there's some natural light. We asked questions like that and we reduced you know the cost of
the building I think by taking out some of the design elements that were not just needed for function. So those are the types of things we did on that deep dive you know when it comes to the senior facil um community center. We can ask questions about real requirements wants
versus needs. That's kind of how we wound up >> well not using any window. So there's that. I'm just saying that would be the thing we would >> you can cross that off >> try to advise you on is we're you know whittling down really what are the needs versus the wants if we did a deep dive
on the senior and community center >> I think that's a useful input >> yeah I think once we get a real set of plans we can do that >> because there are certain assumptions going into that we're not going to be necessarily >> so I will I will take your feedback back to the
team and I don't know when we're meeting again I think it's after town meeting sometime My world ends on Yeah. Yes. Okay. >> Before we the DIP. >> Okay. Where is the uh the latest? It's
on the website, right? The latest plan that remember a year ago. All the color or the uh uh with the lighting and uh >> oh uh downtown improvement 2.0. >> So that was all contingent on the Culver
project. Mhm. >> So, right. So, we So, a lot of the lighting is that we kind of put that aside until we know the co project is moving forward. >> No, I just I'm more interested in actually seeing the presentation again. I just I couldn't find it.
>> Oh, okay. We can I can find that and get you a copy of that. Sure. >> Mark must have it, too. >> Yeah, Mark must have it. It's just like that was kind of like put off to the side until we understand the timing of the Culver project. Yeah. Didn't want to exercise talking. a lot going on.
>> No, >> something's fairly quiet over here because the topics that I'm dealing with generally have been pushed around today. The COA and the senior. I think we've talked enough about the seniors. >> Are they happy to see you now?
>> I see them almost every day now. Just about. Uh the library already touched on that and spoke uh with them about how the town meeting might fit together. I mean this news about trying to move up the list that was not part of the topic back then but I understand why they
would want to move up on the article list. Um >> yeah DPW that's most of those items in our capital Apple thing and that's what they're focused on. Um they've got I I
know and I don't know maybe you'll make comments to this with regard to the uh bids that have come in. I'll leave that to you because you're probably going to make some comments you're a little closer to that with regard to the um uh the PACOS project because they had
bid openings. I think it was last last Wednesday and the historic district commission did not have a meeting this past uh this this month. So short comments >> finance committee is being
itself. Um um the schools um are are focusing on November. Something we may want to think about is whether we actually want to put to
another capital article in that November meeting. Um I I thought there was something that was whacking around might be ready for what the the November
special meeting for to vote on the school >> school project. Um I Assuming we get, you know, the 29 million
30 million for this meeting school that'll be more than >> Well, so do we have um any more information on the um like the grants that we're pursuing? I know you mentioned some of the stuff during the
um videotaped public forum. Um is there any new information on grants or funding on any of these items? Because these are all like not to exceed numbers, right?
>> As far as grants go, no, there isn't any new information. I mean, they're all we're still waiting to hear about MVP for the culvert and uh obvious obviously we've put a request in
for the brick money as well. Um >> has one on the Lincoln Street Well. >> So, we have I got some information about that's the the bid pricing that came in. >> Oh, that's right. But uh >> but are we waiting on any grants for that one? I forget. No.
>> No. >> So whatever the price is, we're going to be paying that fully as taxpayers. I think there was a question where um the due date for cleaning up the PAS is 2030.
>> It's 2029. >> 2029. >> There's been discussion at the federal level about pushing it out to 2031, >> but that hasn't happened. But and the state the state would also have to do that do
that as well I don't believe >> just because the EPA says that the D has to >> well D I believe enacted similar requirements after EPA did so even if the EPA pulls back and says we'll we'll
delay till 2031 we're still under D's requirements as well So, um, if we choose SRF as our funding program, um, there's a potential for
death forgiveness, but it's wouldn't I wouldn't put a lot at the bar on that, >> right? Okay, let's just hang of health is still trying to figure out how to how to work.
>> That's the end of my leazison. Um, we have a consent agenda for the wood. Do I have a motion? >> So moved. >> Second. If Jason says it's good, it's good looking. >> Yes. Yes. >> Brian. >> Yes. Kathy.
>> Yes. Answers. Yes. >> John. Yes. >> Okay. Administrators. >> So, for Lincoln Street, well, uh, bid results came in for the uh, general contractor bids.
uh on Wednesday the we asked for a base bid price which was nonsrf conforming and we asked for an alternate bid price that is SRF conforming.
Uh Waterline Industries came in at 11.2 million on the base and 11.4 million uh well 11.29 29. So 11.3 on the base,
11.4 on the anal. We also got a bid from Wes Construction Corp. that was higher at 11.8 in the base and then 12.2 in the at all. Um, we do have another what what's not
included in that price is uh the vessels and the media that goes on the street next and will be in before election day. >> Uh so we'll we have some numbers we can share now
but the true you know the we'll have more information prior to the ballot question. The estimate on the next phase is somewhere between three and a half to$4 million. So if that holds true, we're
looking at around 15.5 million for the cost of the project. A million dollars less. >> Uh when you say next phase, did you mean grally bond street? Well, okay. the next
>> um so the you know with the lower bid that was submitted it's about $100,000 added cost >> if we go through SRF. So,
we have to decide our next decision to make is whether we go through SRF or not and compare that extra $100,000 to whether we were if we didn't go through SRF. You know, what would the interest be if we borrowed it locally and compare that to that additional
upfront cost of $100,000 extra? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if it's not that consum it's not that big, >> more trouble than it's worth. >> I was going to say that >> I was going to say >> potential if the potential exists is there's debt forgiveness
>> along with that. >> Is that worth $100,000? >> Is it worth $100,000? Especially if the difference the I mean the uh interest rates >> the interest rates make all the difference and and I have I have no feeling for that. >> Yeah. Do you >> does SRF have
>> they work with the same? >> I think they're somewhere between two and a half and three and a half% where I think our our local borrowing is more like um three and a half to four and a half%. >> Oh, that cut that balance is
>> Yeah, that's >> Yeah. So, that could be a savings. >> Yeah. >> So, that's the next step in our >> analysis and more. How far off are we from Gravity Bond?
>> Um, >> yeah. Is that in your capital? >> It hasn't been it hasn't been design It hasn't been fully designed though. Uh we we we did apply for we had applied for federal
funding through uh Molton's office for the cost of the design. It didn't get approved. Um, we do have the like we could use some of these funds for the cost of design for Gralie if needed. I think we're going to
continue to pursue grant opportunities. That's how that's how Lincoln Street Well was paid for the design was paid for through grant. And then we have like around $800,000 in the uh litigation
funds that every town, you know, received. I think it's about $800,000. So, we could use that for grally pond design, too. >> Timing timeline wise, seeing this at town meeting, what
a few years, couple um It could it could go in front of town meeting in a couple years, but you wouldn't start that project until the Lincoln Street Well project is completed. >> Yeah. I'm just funding wise I'm thinking
about when the voters would be looking >> Do you think that >> I would say three maybe like three years at the earliest? I would guess. I I would be I would caution pursuing that
prior to finalizing the Lincoln Street Well project. >> Do you think that that is under the same timeline of 2029 that the Lincoln Street Well will meet or is that Lincoln Street Mel probably going to take the heat off
us for a while because but gravity is very close to the cutoff. >> Lincoln Street is not crazy but it's higher, >> right? Uh my understanding is Graly Pond is a cheaper and quicker project. >> Correct.
>> It is. Yes. So you say you you've made me nervous when you start talking about design. >> It's still anticipated inside the existing new building. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Good. >> Yes. But the system design uh has you
know I don't think that's that's been done. >> Uh >> I'm just wondering if 2029 applies to that. it would. Um, so I mean I I guess I guess I'll change my answer to two
years, but I I I really, you know, you're not going to do both projects at the same time, >> right? No, I get that. I'm just trying to >> certainly if if we don't we have we have the litigation money that we could use for the design
element. get that done. And then it's just a matter of deciding when you want to what the projected timeline of getting the project completed by tied to when the deadline is for the PAS standards and kind of back date as to
when you want to put that in front of town meeting. >> Gives me some idea. Mhm. >> I just like to hope that they push things off a couple of years and then we can buy a couple of more years for the high school to go off.
>> Even by then the high school debt is >> it's going down. It's going down. Yeah. Um making we're we're moving along in the process of the uh police chief hiring process. Uh
candidates that were asked to submit written um responses have done that. Those have been are going through an evaluation process now. We're on schedule as far as what we were
hoping for. Uh the assessor position is posted and is on MMA uh the MMA list serve and I don't know if it is on the Massachusetts Municipal
Association of Assessors list serve but we made the request may not have been published for that yet. Um, >> when are you doing uh interviews for police chief? >> We are
>> and how many candidates at this point? >> Four. We had four that we asked going back to the assessor's office. We could have been caged out. >> You didn't get back to me. I don't I
didn't know. >> Sorry. >> No, you can. >> You can get back to me on it. It's >> April 30th. >> Thursday, April 30th. Okay. Thank you. Um
but most of mostly the last you know two weeks uh has been s you know with two weeks ago Mason building and finalizing that uh the closing of the sale town meeting obviously has been a huge um element of my time for the last two
weeks as well. Um after town meeting we you know we have those two job postings uh do two job processes going on. I have to jump right back into collective bargaining negotiations as well. Um, and then a
number of other items on the horizon. So, >> you can add trustee to your list. >> Can add list there. Yeah, >> they're starting to come down. >> See the difference between Tony and I. Tony was patting his resume. I'm patting my obituary.
I could at this rate it could be an obituary for me. >> I'll race you to it. >> Um yeah, I mean I think I think we've gone through a lot tonight. So >> we can do this again.
>> Yes, this is fun in much bigger ways. It would be so much fun. Move. Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> All in favor? I Yes.