WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=kDcynvIMdFQ

Part: 1

1
00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:16.720
here. >> Yeah. >> Brian here. >> Kathy >> here is here and >> John is here. >> Okay. First item that is first I should say that this meeting is being recorded. Um

2
00:00:16.720 --> 00:00:33.200
next item is public comments on non-aggenda items. Mr. Starky. This is the period for public comment on non-aggenda items. Yes, Mr. Saki. Okay. Um, my name is Jim Starky, 13 Tux Point

3
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:51.039
Road. Last Octo last October of last year, I stood in front of the sled ward and dared to criticize the harbor department. This April, the harbor master revoked the permit I had for a moing for the last 45 years. The reason for the revocation was deliberately

4
00:00:51.039 --> 00:01:08.000
ludicrous by an ill-defined notion of no records. The harbor master quote deemed unquote my 1981 waring assignment to be illegal, which made his 2026 permit renewal renewal illegal, clearing the

5
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:24.799
way for him to revoke my waring permit just before my boat was scheduled to be launched. Every aspect of this fails the smell test, but taken as a whole sends a clear message to everyone associated with the harbor. The Harbor Department tolerates

6
00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:42.159
no public criticism. Public criticism of the Harbor Department is subject to official retribution. And in the case of retribution, nobody in town government will lift a finger to defend anyone's right of free speech or the right to petition their government

7
00:01:42.159 --> 00:02:09.079
for redress of grievances. Thank you. >> The next item, >> excuse me. >> Yes. >> Um, can I submit this to be added to the minutes? >> Yes. I suggest you offer it to Tony because Um,

8
00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:25.680
the chairman's report. Um, I'd like to commend the police department and the rest of town hall for handling two potentially difficult situations very gracefully. The first was the text point

9
00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:43.599
party for the before the prom. um in some but 12 13 years ago there was no control whatsoever and if there had been an emergency they would have to have brought in a helicopter. Uh everybody was parked everywhere the street was

10
00:02:43.599 --> 00:03:00.640
impassible. This year there was almost no there were almost no lines. They had people noticing when somebody left so that somebody else could come in. It was just really well handled. and the other is not complete yet, but I

11
00:03:00.640 --> 00:03:17.280
am amazed at how little disruption um we've had from closing Union Street for the demolition. Um I expected to have cars lined up back to Crocker's boatyard and that hasn't that hasn't

12
00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:33.440
happened. I think it was well thought out, well managed and well maintained and it's a great uh uh litmus test to see how we going forward with any other projects. But yes, uh I haven't heard one complaint >> and in fact I have heard more uh

13
00:03:33.440 --> 00:03:49.680
virtuous uh comments about the uh the way it's been handled and I think that the entire every everyone involved with the town staff and developer >> uh deserve banks. Yeah, I agree. I was there the first day, walked by it a

14
00:03:49.680 --> 00:04:05.760
couple times. There was a nice crowd. Uh it was like um it was like our reality show. We went our reality show, Manchester by DC. Um >> and I walked by almost every day since then just to see no traffic. I mean, no

15
00:04:05.760 --> 00:04:22.759
anything on social media. >> Yeah. No. And I I al actually saw Tony's doppelganger there. I I saw someone sitting there on the bench and I'm like I thought it was you and I went up to and it wasn't you. >> So my mother

16
00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:38.320
could have been >> Yeah. >> could have been your twin. >> I just looked at the operation today. I got to believe they're going to be done in a day or two. >> Pretty much all the junk is gone. >> Do you have any update on

17
00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:54.240
>> how it's going? Uh they didn't Friday I guess they didn't get as many trucks in to unload some of the debris. We were hoping they'd be done by tomorrow. That might extend into Wednesday. Um we gave them until Friday, but with the hopes of

18
00:04:54.240 --> 00:05:10.880
getting it done sooner. It does look like they've got a lot of stuff removed as of today. >> Much cleaner today than it did yesterday. Yeah, >> there was we did get some there were some questions uh to the board of health about

19
00:05:10.880 --> 00:05:27.919
uh asbestos removal. >> Um I let them know, you know, that they did go through that's a state requirement. they went through the proper channels, got their certificate, provided that to us when they um applied for their demolition permit,

20
00:05:27.919 --> 00:05:53.600
>> and uh let the board of health know to respond to any inquiries on that with that information. >> Um are there any is there anything we need to add to the um action or items? Oh, the only thing I had I I had a note

21
00:05:53.600 --> 00:06:08.880
from the last time. Senior center trustees put that in to take a look at that first quarter of 2027, >> right? The um >> because right now they're it's kind of an interim situation, >> right?

22
00:06:08.880 --> 00:06:24.160
um a little more meat around not so much qualifications but um criteria for serving >> who's who's going to serve longer term that's all >> next meeting or the following meeting >> so the first quarter

23
00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:42.639
>> the first quarter of 2020 that's 6 months old out >> I'm sorry oh you mean um not fiscal first quarter you mean got it okay so January of 2027 I think Okay. The first item on

24
00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:58.400
a regular representative um is a reorganization of the board. Do I have a nomination for chairman? >> I will I will move to nominate John Round as chairman. >> Second.

25
00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:17.440
>> Debate. >> Yes. Brian, >> yes. >> Kathy, yes. I'd say yes. >> I'll abstain. >> Come on, you can vote. >> Yes. Yes, I did. >> Okay. So, are we going to play >> music?

26
00:07:17.440 --> 00:07:39.599
>> Musical chairs. >> A little bit here. >> All right. Bring a sweater. >> I was going to say, did you bring a sweater? Uh yeah, that's correct. Okay. >> Well, yeah, she's not sitting down.

27
00:07:39.599 --> 00:07:56.639
>> How about if I move to nominate Kathy Bada, vice chair, so we can get these used. >> Second. >> Okay, Jeff. >> Yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> John, yes. >> Danny, yes. >> Thank you. Congratulations, Kath.

28
00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:12.720
>> Congratulations, John. And may I say um a very warm thank you to an Um the chair has been a wonderful chair of the past years. >> Well, thank you.

29
00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:32.640
>> One more. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you for for handling the chair person's position with grace and appl issues that you've had to deal with over the past three years. But um

30
00:08:32.640 --> 00:08:48.080
>> thank you. >> I can say that this with a great fee of relief that I turn this over to you. >> Okay. Well, we'll see how things go from this point from this point going forward. All right. One thing I would like to do

31
00:08:48.080 --> 00:09:04.760
before I do anything is I think that we all should stand for a moment of silence. Jeff Wadner Turner who passed away May 18th and is a former member of this board and a former current member of the conservation committee.

32
00:09:15.680 --> 00:09:34.240
Thank you. >> And when my time comes, you can think I'm still going to be traditionally as part of the reorganization process, uh, the board has also taken a vote to designate the Cricut as the official and

33
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:49.200
the Galot Daily Times as the alternate newspaper for the town. Not sure why that was always tied to the date that we did the reorganization. Uh but that was >> it must be an annual vote to take. >> Yes.

34
00:09:49.200 --> 00:10:06.640
>> Yeah. >> So you have >> Okay. >> I'll move that the board designates the Cricut as the official and the Gloucester Daily Times as the alternate newspapers for the town. >> Second. Okay. Any further discussion?

35
00:10:06.640 --> 00:10:21.839
Ready to vote? Kathy, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Brian, >> yes. >> Jeff, >> yes. >> John says yes. >> Good. So, we're set with that. Um,

36
00:10:21.839 --> 00:10:37.839
all right. Under action items, the first comment or the first topic is drought conditions. And I think that Tony, you sent something out on this. >> I I just an hour ago. this I I didn't even send this out. I printed it for

37
00:10:37.839 --> 00:10:53.760
you. Um I'll make sure it gets added into the packet, but this is uh the immediate and short and medium medium-term steps that local governments have to take when the state declares a level three crit critical drought. Uh it

38
00:10:53.760 --> 00:11:09.120
advises as to what that means for residents and businesses and uh explains what non-essential outdoor water use examples are and how they're defined. Uh but essentially for us it's adopt and

39
00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:24.000
implement the state's non-essential outdoor water use restrictions. Uh for the drought level three restriction calls for a ban on all non-essential outdoor water use. uh provide timely information on the drought and on water conservation tips

40
00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:41.120
to local residents and businesses taking advantage of the state's library of outreach materials. So that's something we would put on the website. Enforce water use restrictions with increasingly stringent penalties. strongly discourage or prohibit installation of new sod seating and/or landscaping, washing of

41
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:57.440
hard surfaces surfaces uh sidewalks, patios, driveways, siding, personal vehicle or boat washing unless needed for invasive control and establish or enhance water use reduction targets for all water users. Identify top water users and conduct targeted outreach to

42
00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:14.320
help curb their use. >> I'm wondering so this is uh level three. >> Yes. Yes. Now, there are four levels. >> Uh there's technically five, but it's zero, one, two, three, four. >> I think it would be helpful if we could

43
00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:30.560
see what the requirements are for all five. Just to have this standing alone. This tells me kind of what's going on, but I would like to put things in perspective. I think other consumers would as well. >> Is Chuck here to give us an update on where we're at in town?

44
00:12:30.560 --> 00:12:47.200
>> He is on. I talked to him. Chuck, if you're on, if you can come off mute. I talked to him earlier today. Our on level is at 28 feet. Uh full is 30 to 31 ft. So we're in as far as our local

45
00:12:47.200 --> 00:13:02.720
water supply, we're in a healthy standard, you know, typical level for this time of year. Uh Chuck, >> yeah, I'm here. That's pretty much what I would have said. So, I think you're

46
00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:18.720
you're right on. It's uh it's just this is one of those things where we've seen it, you know, over the last couple years since the state has made the the drone plan, you know, we're we're to follow it as part of our registration and uh you know, the stuff Tony put in front of you is kind of the standard operating

47
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:33.680
procedure at this point. >> So, the state's drought plan, it's not just a blanket statewide. There's sections, right? >> Yeah. They do it by region. We're northeast region even though we're

48
00:13:33.680 --> 00:13:49.360
in a different uh watershed than say like the Ipswich basin which is the you know more restrictive you know Ipsswitch, Hamilton, Wenham, Danvers, Beverly, Salem you know they're they have this kind of baked into there but

49
00:13:49.360 --> 00:14:06.720
you know it's new for us because it's you know more by region than uh watershed. So the if switch which region is actually driving this then >> uh that's substantially behind it. Yeah I would say and I would say it's just kind of like across the state. So even

50
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:21.600
though you know we're more in the you know in the northeast getting it by the switch basin like in the southeast it's you know Cape Cod really drives it with their conditions. Uh you know in the western it's you know Connecticut River Valley stuff like that. >> But the state's proclamation is a

51
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:36.800
one-sizefits-all for the whole state regardless of what's going on. Correct. >> Well, by by region. By region. So, most of most of the state is probably in a stage three right now. I I'd have to look at the at the map, but um you know, Western Mass might be in a stage two or

52
00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:51.040
something like that or central. >> No, we are northeast region is uh is the only level three right now, >> right? >> Connecticut River is two, central region is two.

53
00:14:51.040 --> 00:15:06.800
Uh, looks like Nantucket is two and then Cape Cod, Southeast region, and Western region are all one. >> So, if we took Manchester out of this, what would our town be? A zero or a one

54
00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:23.120
compared to the rest of the region? >> I'd have to look at, you know, how they how they declare it. It seems as if they look at an 18month look back of

55
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:38.160
rainfall >> and Chuck knows more about this than I do, but um that's >> you know looking that far back compared it we were we had this same level three

56
00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:56.000
drought around this time last year and then it went down to a level two and then I think if you recall we did we did this again And in the fall, late fall, we went back to a level three and then over the winter it dropped down to a level two and now we're back.

57
00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:12.160
>> So last year when we had the situation, we didn't implement the band up, did we? >> No, we didn't. >> No, we didn't. No, >> in June, this time last year, you did not. In the fall, we did. >> Oh, I told you. >> I'm I'm prepared to just follow suit and

58
00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:30.320
do what we did last year. That's kind of, >> you know, I'm thinking I don't know. I >> I'm no scientist, but I'm looking at the most snow we've had in forever. >> Most rain and the most rain we've had in a summer. I'm I'm reluctant to

59
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:47.920
>> at this time, >> you know, these these things lag a bit. So, I mean it it I don't recall how many weeks >> um >> like it didn't account for the rain we got a few days ago, right? >> So, um do we know the as of date?

60
00:16:47.920 --> 00:17:04.640
>> You know, what data were they looking at when they said we're in level three drought? >> This is May 22nd. Go ahead. >> I was just going to say it was right before Memorial Day. We actually I think we got rain like that Friday. They declared it on a Thursday. And so the the next typical meeting would be the

61
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:21.520
first week of the following month, but you know, because today is literally the first, maybe it'll go into next week and that's when they'll have their next drought meeting. >> Yeah. So maybe could we uh postpone any action until we um you know get a more realistic situation here? Uh to answer

62
00:17:21.520 --> 00:17:37.919
your concern about the snow, from what I understand, all the snow we got, a lot of it was powder. it didn't have a lot of moisture content and that's why um we started off um a little bit dry but I I certainly feel like we got a lot of rain. >> My concern is that we have a lot of

63
00:17:37.919 --> 00:17:53.760
residents that have started guidance and start doing plantings and stuff and I don't want to unnecessarily restrict people >> and one year we did um allow for drip irrigation. We didn't allow for sprinklers, but we did allow for that

64
00:17:53.760 --> 00:18:08.240
was I think universally accepted as a very dry time. >> Right. Right. >> That was two years ago. It was one real serious one. Maybe it was a couple years ago. >> Could agree that it was dry then. >> Yeah. >> I'm not running dry.

65
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:24.960
>> So, so last year, what did we ignore the just ignore it? I mean, it's not like they have a water police drive. >> I I think we just were silent. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And um well I'm I'm Jeff's Jeff's comment is well taken. >> Yeah.

66
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:40.480
>> There are a lot of people that are doing a lot of stuff that is dependent on water right now. >> I I I I would also agree with waiting to >> Yeah. And see what see what an updated thing is. So we table this until the 1 of July.

67
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:56.720
I'm wondering if if we could say restrict it to sidewalks, not don't water sidewalks, don't wash your car, um don't wash your driveway,

68
00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:15.360
>> say do a partial do the things that that >> I think that that's I I hear you. Okay. So, we're trying to at least show the state we're trying to do something, but I don't see a lot of people washing sidewalks.

69
00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:31.280
>> That's kind of a California thing. >> Yeah. And washing cars. Yeah. >> Little. >> You know, I to be honest with you, I think I don't recall ever driving by someone washing their car outside to be honest with you. I >> Well, so token,

70
00:19:31.280 --> 00:19:49.200
>> but it's But I think >> token compliance with no effect on it. Does it hurt? if it's limited to washing your sidewalk and washing your car. And that shows the state that we're trying >> we're making

71
00:19:49.200 --> 00:20:04.400
>> we're making slow but baby steps progress. And it also shows that the residents that we are concerned about their uh their plantings and their spring activities going to summer that we're uh

72
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:20.720
aware of it and want to don't want to inhibit that. So >> I think I I just comment here. I think, you know, it's it's certainly reasonable to put out, you know, whatever messaging we want through Tiffany, through the Tide, through, you know, the different sources, but like the the official piece

73
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:36.960
of paperwork that I put into the uh state when we do a when we do do a ban is is kind of like the full thing. Like if it has to be the non-essential language. So, you know, again, you can do whatever do whatever we think is, you

74
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:53.280
know, the right thing for, you know, the residents and everybody, but like the real the real meat of the matter if that's what we're trying to solve is the putting, you know, putting the paperwork in front of D that we've issued the non-essential outdoor ban. So, that's like an official piece of paperwork.

75
00:20:53.280 --> 00:21:08.960
Otherwise, you know, any of these other kind of smaller measures are all well and good, but it's not it's not really moving the needle for the state. You know what I mean? Uh, are they expecting to hear back from you in a certain window of time? >> Uh, I've never heard from them on this at all. It's more just like a formality

76
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:25.600
of a piece of paper that I send to a certain email address and with certain people's email addresses on it at D and I think they just put in a file and then at the end of the year when I do our annual statistical report, I also put that paperwork in the in the same report. Um, so you know to the extent

77
00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:41.360
that they are doing some sort of recordkeeping, they would have it. Otherwise, you know, it's not like I'm getting a call saying, "Hey, why haven't you influenced the ban?" Or, "Hey, you can you can take off your banan." It's kind of like it just is what it is at this point. >> They do track by town, especially in the

78
00:21:41.360 --> 00:21:56.080
zones that are in the level three or level four, who impose the restrictions. It is state law. So, you do risk enforcement from the state on the town for non-compliance.

79
00:21:56.080 --> 00:22:12.960
>> What's the enforcement? could be a uh enforcement order, noncriminal fines, um legal action. Usually, it comes through the form of

80
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:28.720
some sort of administrative consent order of some sort from D. >> We got nothing last time, so >> yeah, nothing. >> I'm willing to roll the dice. I'm rolling the dice because Chuck, hey, if we do impose this U ban, you're going to

81
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:44.880
be the one who gets up free Manchester minute. >> Tell everyone we're doing it. >> So, so I'm willing to say ask Tiffany to ask people and not just not do it and

82
00:22:44.880 --> 00:23:02.720
>> yeah, put out a message to conserve. I mean, that's that's reason >> just a qualitative statement. >> Yeah. Rather than being specific >> rather than having Chuck submit something that's obviously wrong. >> Yeah. I think they have expectations in response. Are you

83
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:17.760
>> so >> adhering or not adhering? >> In our recent experience, they don't hear from them. They don't look. >> Yeah. Chuck, did you go back to them last year when they when this uh restriction came up or you were just silent?

84
00:23:17.760 --> 00:23:34.000
>> Yeah, I was just silent. Um, you know, like when if we actually put out a ban and you guys vote on it to enforce a ban or to have a ban, then I submit the paperwork. Otherwise, I don't submit anything and I just move on. >> Let's move on. >> Okay. >> All right. So,

85
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:49.919
>> it does it does say I just want to let you know it does say here if a town fails to comply, mass D can impose noncriminal fines on residents and businesses themselves because it's a state law. matter that send us something.

86
00:23:49.919 --> 00:24:04.720
>> Yes, it be interesting if they move very quickly on nothing. So, it'll be a win to tell that happens. So, >> and we can we can certainly, you know, revisit it at your next meeting or July meeting.

87
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:21.440
>> We'll revisit it in July. The 1 of July. >> I'm on board. Okay. That's good. >> See what the story So, we'll be on record in a minutes that we will revisit this the 1 of July and see where we're at because we have concerns about their comments reflecting what has happened in

88
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:38.320
the past week. >> We get a lot of people spend a lot of money on masking. Lots of money on >> Yeah. Okay. All right. So, we'll we'll table that for uh don't worry about that motion. We'll table that for for July whatever

89
00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:54.159
it is first. No, seven foot. Okay. Um, the next item is the volunteer and employee of the year awards. And I think we were all sent by Debbie some

90
00:24:54.159 --> 00:25:13.360
information with regard to the nominees and uh the volunteers associated with this. This is an initiative that has to be done uh covertly or anonymously I would say >> confidential.

91
00:25:13.360 --> 00:25:29.760
>> So um what and and what is the uh schedule for this expected to be Tony with regard to uh picking? >> So in the future it'll be a January process and an announcement at annual town meeting. We're behind schedule this

92
00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:47.440
year. what uh and last year I think we were as well. Prior to that, it was done on an annual basis up until about 2016. >> Uh I I am I know 17 to 23 it's not done. >> Uh so last year the announcement was

93
00:25:47.440 --> 00:26:03.919
made at Greg's retirement party. >> Um so I think we we will have a public retirement party for Todd on June 11th. Mhm. >> So my suggestion is that we do >> we announce it then >> then that's about the same time kind of.

94
00:26:03.919 --> 00:26:18.159
>> Yeah. >> So I I would suggest that every select board member um send Debbie their choice, maybe their first and second choice. >> Um and then we'll tally it up and >> okay,

95
00:26:18.159 --> 00:26:35.440
>> see where we're at rather than voting for them by letter. >> Right. Well, I'll tell you what. Have Debbie send out a ballot, >> okay, >> to all of us, and we can just say, "Here it is, first and second, and Debbie will get educated on rank choice voting."

96
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:50.080
>> Rank rank choice. >> Rank choice voting. Let's find out how easy it is to do. >> I don't know how that works. Okay, at least I recognize it. So can I um um make a suggestion too for next year or when we start this process again um

97
00:26:50.080 --> 00:27:08.320
when you talk about employee awards um I think we don't have enough structure around the nominations um I think it would be helpful we do have criteria right um and I do think it would be helpful for the form to

98
00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:26.880
um help the nominator address the specific criteria we're looking for. For example, um I think some of the nominations we got felt like lifetime achievement awards rather than the employee did something um

99
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:43.760
exceptional this year. And um so I you know having done a lot of award stuff in my corporate life the the more specific you can be about time frames um and and the form that they submit

100
00:27:43.760 --> 00:27:59.039
>> reflect that. Um it can be helpful so that you're judging the nominee on the basis of the merits not how well >> somebody wrote a nomination >> you know and uh because some of there there was a wide variety here. Yeah. And

101
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:16.159
so I just in fairness to the making sure we give everyone a fair shot. Um I I think it's important to do a little bit of standardization. So I >> if if there were criteria in 2016, I don't know what they are. >> No, I was and that's part of the issue

102
00:28:16.159 --> 00:28:31.679
when you if we don't have clear criteria, we should. >> Okay. >> I don't know. Did we ever see the note that Debbie sent out asking for nominees? >> I think it was I think Tiffany >> when Tiffany sent that out. I don't remember.

103
00:28:31.679 --> 00:28:46.720
>> There was there was on the website. >> I I thought there was some criteria. >> There were some criteria. >> I picked it up tide. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think there was some. I just um in in in our desire to do something good for an employee, sometimes it has a

104
00:28:46.720 --> 00:29:02.399
negative side effect to those who were not >> um either nominated or did not get it. So, you want to make sure you have a level playing ground and um um the selection is based on fair criteria. So, I just >> I would just assume

105
00:29:02.399 --> 00:29:17.200
>> otherwise it's a popularity contest. You know, >> you don't want it to be a popularity contest. I would like the criteria to come from the select board rather than Tiffany. Yes. So we should put something >> we will we should review that. U put

106
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:33.360
that on an action item just on the action item list >> for say September that we talk about what the >> what in the near future >> in September. Okay. >> Right.

107
00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:48.880
>> For both slots. >> Yep. employee and volunteer. Okay, good. So then the nominees will well Debbie will take care of that. Send it out and give us a deadline and then we'll we'll see how that that fits together.

108
00:29:48.880 --> 00:30:15.279
>> All right. Anything else on that? We're good. >> Okay. All right, the next topic is the display is a policy issue on the display of flags and town policy

109
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:31.679
and you all have a draft of an updated that in fact I put together and in fact send it to Ann for some comment as well uh before sending it having Debbie send it out to everybody on tightening things up here. I think that over the past, especially the past

110
00:30:31.679 --> 00:30:48.240
month, circumstances have presented themselves that we didn't necessarily anticipate and had to address in terms of the way our policy read now so that we could cover more possibilities. And uh in particular, it dealt with uh

111
00:30:48.240 --> 00:31:04.480
running the the flag at uh half staff when we had multiple opportunities to do so and are still in the middle of that with regard to Memorial Day, the death of Barney Frank. Um the uh the g the the pride flag raising which happened

112
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:21.600
earlier earlier today and then we also have podman's um recognition of his passing. So, uh, I put some copy in here to first separate out commemorative flags from historic commemorative flags

113
00:31:21.600 --> 00:31:36.640
and put in some criteria there that really applied to the number of days that commemorative flags would be flown versus historic commemorative flags. But that's the primary difference there. But everything is at at the at the um

114
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:53.440
at the uh select board's uh pleasure as to as to how many days it is. But we've got some days that are dictated there. And then another comment with regard to the American flag. And I did survey a number of flag policies. And I'll tell you that there are not very many in this

115
00:31:53.440 --> 00:32:11.120
state. 351 communities. There are not more than 20 that have flag policies. Most of them do not. They're silent because it just never came up or whatever. And so they just hue to whatever the policy is that comes from um what the federal regulations, the

116
00:32:11.120 --> 00:32:26.960
federal statutes or the state statutes. So um there isn't a lot of precedent, but I will say that those that are out there, the American flag is pretty much always flown. There are several where it's not commented, but where it is addressed,

117
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:43.919
they they do say yes, the American flag must always be on the flag pole. So um one thing that would change from what we've done in the past year or two or the past year anyway is that we will always have the American flag over a commemorative flag whatever the situation is

118
00:32:43.919 --> 00:32:59.679
>> the >> and that's what the suggestion is here and I know that half staff it gets a little low >> and it breaks things. >> I don't know >> it did on the um honor roll. >> Okay. >> Broke the light. >> Yeah. I know that was a I know their

119
00:32:59.679 --> 00:33:15.960
light their light did break. That was the P flag that was below. >> No, there was a commemorative flag below the P flag. >> Oh, they had three flags. >> Yeah. >> All right. We're never going to get to that point. >> Don't count on it.

120
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:33.200
>> Well, at at this point, I you know, I think two flags is uh what what would work here. So, I' I've got a draft here that I assume that you folks have had a chance to take a look at, and I wondered if you had any comments

121
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:49.279
with regard to the way it reads. Now, >> I like it. My only I am concerned about the mechanics of flying two flags as an said, um, if it's doable, great. >> Uh, the fire department and they are

122
00:33:49.279 --> 00:34:05.039
they know that they have to rig it. So, right now it cannot fly two flags, but it will as of this time tomorrow. They they have to put in another coupling so that they've got two flags that they can put on for us. So, that that will happen. Right now, we just can only fly

123
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:19.520
one flag on, >> right? Yeah. I just didn't know if I don't know. People had said in the past that it wasn't tall enough or something. >> Yeah. >> It's not a super tall flag pole, but you know, >> I mean, as long as it works.

124
00:34:19.520 --> 00:34:36.159
>> Yeah. you know, find out next. >> Okay. Until some other strange situation or situation that we didn't anticipate comes up. But >> unanticipated, >> but yeah, not strange, but >> that's correct.

125
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:52.399
>> I Why do you put in specific time links and then say, but the software could overwrite it? It just seems like verbiage that doesn't add anything. Well, I mean, I look at the pride flag

126
00:34:52.399 --> 00:35:08.880
and that is a commemorative flag >> that's up for a month because just because it is pride month. >> Yeah. >> And so it is flying for a month. But I don't think that most commemorative flags would be up for a month, >> right? And we make that decision >> and we made Yeah, that's what I mean. We

127
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:25.359
made the decision that in other words, you don't want to have any days dictated for at all. >> Yeah. just that that the length that the flag will be flown is determined by the select port. >> Okay. >> Where where did the two days come from? I guess is the question.

128
00:35:25.359 --> 00:35:41.119
>> I think >> stolen from conquered. >> Yeah. Something like that from some some other >> that's inspired by conquered. >> Yeah. Or or some other one. I mean a lot of this stuff is taken from others.

129
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:57.200
I mean that could be could be changed to one day. And we did have the uh the friends of the trees flag that was up for one day, >> I think. >> So I I I think I would prefer to see this left completely open to the select board to decide

130
00:35:57.200 --> 00:36:14.079
um how long each flag should be flown. >> Yeah, I agree. I mean it should be commeasure it with whatever right event or whatever it is we are we um are commemorating and it may be one day it

131
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:30.800
may be a week in some instances it may be a month um but the two seems two days seems a bit arbitrary to me >> okay well for the historic commemorative flags it's seven days >> right and I don't understand you know I would just take out all of the limits

132
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:48.480
>> okay if you take out the link Thanks. Both paragraphs read identical and there's no distinction between a historic flag and and a regular commemorative flag. >> Yeah. >> So, what was the what was the impetus

133
00:36:48.480 --> 00:37:06.720
for separating them? >> Um trying to remember what the situation was. >> I'm thinking I I'm just guessing here. I wasn't involved with writing the uh >> it was when the flag came >> might have been the para flag that you

134
00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:23.440
wanted to fly it for a week >> and so why couldn't we just make that decision to fly it for week I think we did right yeah >> so at the time when the proclamation is made we can make that determination >> it's I'm going keep it simple girl so it's like we're we seem to be introducing added language

135
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:42.240
that may complicate things >> I think you're looking for default >> I don't >> is what you're looking for >> a what >> a default >> but if if the select board can override the default then it's still up to the select board anyway as to how long it

136
00:37:42.240 --> 00:37:57.839
flies we're just adding extra language that >> I mean there's a default in the sense that you don't want to be sitting around saying every time a commemorative flag plugs well how many days we going to do this >> why not we have to make a proclamation and we have to make a whole thing saying

137
00:37:57.839 --> 00:38:14.320
that this is government the defaul thing. We could take it out and then you just consolidate it as >> just commemorative. >> We I would I would leave language in that there is historical commemorative and commemorative flags, but the the time

138
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:30.240
>> What about the um the American flag being there shall always be displayed on the flag pole? >> I'm fine. I think that's a very good idea. >> I like it. I just I just want to make sure it's doable. So >> that we don't >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

139
00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:47.520
>> Like and so like say today's situation if the American flag is going to fly a half mass where's that going to leave the next >> Well, it's down below that. That's the discussion. >> I think so. Again, it makes sense to have the American flag on it, but shame

140
00:38:47.520 --> 00:39:03.760
on us if we didn't install this flag pole to be tall enough to have two flags because the entire reason for having that flag pole was for commemorative flags. So, I'm assuming that it can hold

141
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:19.520
>> you know, I think that I don't think it's going to be too low, >> right? you know, this might not be high enough to make someone happy >> or, you know, but uh as long as we follow >> the uh those that criteria, it is what it is. >> Okay.

142
00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:35.119
>> Okay. >> All right. >> All right. So, I I I can take take it upon myself to modify the copy here. >> Second read. >> So, for a second read, well, actually a first read because I got to modify it. So, uh, we'll take out any any reference

143
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:50.480
to, uh, calendar days. >> Any any thoughts on when the state declares that that the American flag go to half mass that the commemorative flag temporarily is removed for that period

144
00:39:50.480 --> 00:40:07.839
of time? I I would have a concern about that because the entire reason we put up that flag pole, >> the entire reason was four commemorative flags. So if it's not tall enough >> to have a flag at half mass because it

145
00:40:07.839 --> 00:40:22.960
would have to be at half, it would have to be lower. Anyway, if the American flag on the other flag pole was at half mass, you know, the one by the honor roll, you still have to lower the commemorative flag. So to me, if we didn't buy a flag pole enough We'll find out.

146
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:39.680
>> Yeah. Well, I I mean right now instead of >> the honor roll that is at half stamp with two flags. >> Yeah. So, it's the P flag. >> P flag and the American flag. So, that's there. >> That's what I'm saying. I just think we we we should if there's a problem with this flag. If within 24 hours we find

147
00:40:39.680 --> 00:40:54.720
out we have a problem with our flag pole, the resolution is to fix the flag pole, not necessarily change the policy. >> Okay. >> All right. >> That would be my let's fix the root cause. But do you want to wait or do you want to approve

148
00:40:54.720 --> 00:41:11.680
the American flag being on the poll now? And >> um >> this is still just a first read. So whatever we do now doesn't change what's happening outside our doors right this second. >> Tomorrow. >> But she's making you know the point to

149
00:41:11.680 --> 00:41:26.720
be made is yeah tomorrow should we have the American flag on. >> Right. This is where I'm going. >> That's where he's going. Well, that's not the American. Well, >> it's okay because if we do it and it's not policy,

150
00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:43.280
>> you know, it's going to be an issue. >> But so what we're saying is that if there is no American flag, the commemorative flag will be a little higher. Still lower than the American flag at the honor roll. >> Yes. >> But it'll be higher. So it's not >> Oh, yeah. You've had you had some

151
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:59.599
discussions to that effect. >> Yeah. I mean that's that's that's going to be taken care of tomorrow, right? >> Regardless of what the fire department does. >> Uh that what that that the uh >> lower the uh >> American flag >> flag pole that yeah the commemorative flag to below the American flag.

152
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:15.280
>> Yeah. I don't know what the who's who's looked that what are we talking six inches or a foot or something or I I don't know how >> it would come down to half step. >> Okay. Yeah. All right. >> I mean that's that's I don't know if it's >> that can be taken care of tomorrow. >> Tomorrow. Exactly. No problem. There's

153
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:31.599
probably come over in the morning. >> And honestly, the the poll isn't set up for two flats or anything. >> It's not, but they can set that up tomorrow morning. >> I don't know. >> I think we don't have that the policy that we currently have doesn't cover. >> Doesn't cover that. So we just leave it

154
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:47.119
as >> So we'll just leave it for now and >> and put that put that at half staff following the half staff requirements which are right now June 8th and then again June 17th through the 19th or whatever.

155
00:42:47.119 --> 00:43:02.560
>> We'll have another select board meeting before then we have an opportunity to >> Yes. >> Yeah. We can make a different decision then. >> Okay. All right. >> So what's the resolution here? So lower the commemorative flag be lower than the American flag that's

156
00:43:02.560 --> 00:43:18.960
at the honor roll >> when that flag when the American flag rises back up to full >> mass >> which is commemorative flag back up to >> Okay. And then we'll look at how when we add where it actually drops when we have

157
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:35.200
a second flag on it. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh we've got to we got to tell Jake that. >> I'm on it. >> You're on it. Okay. All right. Good. And then in what's two weeks from now? The date. Yeah. So that's before uh the anticipated time with Jeff.

158
00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:53.040
>> Yes. >> All right. Any other comments on that? No, no motion needs to be made on that. That's just a to-do list item. >> Um okay. Harbor management plan update. I got a lot of stuff to read like three hours ago.

159
00:43:53.040 --> 00:44:16.880
>> Haven't looked at it. I'm going to get the note version right now. >> So wonderful. >> I wanted a flag. >> Uh well, I'm sorry that uh thanks Jim for coming. Jim Elder with selfish.

160
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:34.720
>> Yeah. Um um and our uh task force was I think formed by the select board at the request of the harbor master several years ago. I think we worked for almost two years. Um and we were never

161
00:44:34.720 --> 00:44:50.240
you asked I think the last time we came what was our purpose and there was not a harbor management plan that we were working to update. So we did our best to describe the goal of harbor think about

162
00:44:50.240 --> 00:45:06.000
get input um through a forum through a survey and through um a whole bunch of uh interviews that were all of which was consolidated and led by urban harbor's institute at UMass. Um so I think the

163
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:22.160
value of this and please feel free to jump in is that um for news new staff you know new town administrator there's now a comprehensive uh appendix that describes the harbor and that means harbor largely the

164
00:45:22.160 --> 00:45:40.240
harbor's edge from Magnolia to Beverly Farms although it seemed like most of our recommendations always came back to the main harbor not all but uh most of the recommendations came back to fireworks. Um the structure like

165
00:45:40.240 --> 00:45:56.560
I said there was survey of forum interviews um and there was representation from the concom team from shellfish board and um and uh harbor advisory.

166
00:45:56.560 --> 00:46:13.440
So we, you know, we did our best to and I would say that most of our meetings were not attended by any uh people. I think uh public uh with the exception that um I think Skip Proctor came a couple times and had some very

167
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:28.880
insightful uh input. Um the structure that Urban Harbor Institute usually uses we is what we started with. sits with the forum organized around >> and then we um actually word smith in

168
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:45.920
public session all of it and moved all their stuff around. I think I mean they were very responsive to our input but they did say that we mocked with their process more than anybody else had. Um they structure the

169
00:46:45.920 --> 00:47:02.480
um and our massaging was five five goals. The first is protect the town's commercial and public facilities and services from sea level rise and flooding. Provide the second was provide safe and navigable waters seems to um

170
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:17.280
the third is maintain and enhance public access and awareness. The fourth is ensure healthy water quality and protect natural resources in and adjacent to the town's coastal waterways. And the fifth is support the local the marine economy.

171
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:34.000
And I guess one of the things that we did find I would I'm speaking my opinion here but the the public input um is challenging because a lot of times people say things that uh because they just don't know what's going on. Um you

172
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:51.440
know there was a the one that comes to mind is the comment that the the town or MSA should offer adult sailing lessons but they already do adult you know it's already exists. I just whoever made that comment didn't know. And what happened with urban harbors is they would take

173
00:47:51.440 --> 00:48:06.480
those comments and just plop them into this structure. >> And that's where we said, well, wait, that's not true. And you know, um, and we also, so we worked pretty hard to sus out that the appendix B does have all of

174
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:22.079
the, um, comments if you want to work through them and try to figure out who said something. Um so the you did just get this and I was away and but anyway um there the the key thing is that under those five goals

175
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:41.359
we have um uh specific action findings that's what we call them and um goals findings and recommendations. Um and some of them are pretty obvious um you know in terms of protecting for climate change some policies um updating

176
00:48:41.359 --> 00:48:59.680
laws and regulations um and then the table um shows whether we think it's a pri highest priority and it was we had a lot of high priority which is maybe a fault um and then who we thought was uh in charge of seeing that.

177
00:48:59.680 --> 00:49:16.880
Um, one of the things urban harbors put in the executive summary and we went back and forth on is there should be a staff person who oversees the implementation of this plan and we didn't feel that we could make that recommendation. So we removed it and said we will go to the select board and

178
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:32.960
ask them to help us think about how to um how to assign this responsibility keep it on people's radars. Um so for example in the climate change I haven't actually looked at this in a while

179
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:50.800
um uh planning for climate change and updating laws and regulations among the responsibilities there's the planning board the concom administrator and board and I do know that as uh the planning board is addressing the general district

180
00:49:50.800 --> 00:50:07.040
um we are thinking about the climate change issue one of the things we've seen in the planning boards we did a bunch of admin administrative stuff. We did a bunch of housing stuff and we've done not that much on environmental stuff. So we're including that in our work plan. Um so you know at least in

181
00:50:07.040 --> 00:50:24.880
that case um it has uh they're they're linked. >> Um and all of our committee was charged with going back to their the committees that they represented to at least go through the re recommendations. Um

182
00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:41.359
and so on um under plant providing safe and navigable waters. This was the area that we kind of had an synthesized new idea and that is that there um is to determine the harbor's capacity and

183
00:50:41.359 --> 00:50:57.760
that's not just the space for moorings but also financial capacity uh infrastructure capacity traffic and safety capacity. Um, we had hoped that urban harbors would give us their sort

184
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:15.920
of knowledge on that and we pushed them hard I would say and they said nobody had really ever asked them you know I sort of thought in a simple way they would say you know 100 moorings per acre or whatever is too many or too few or too big you know um and they didn't have

185
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:34.400
a good way to do that. So, um, and of course it's a dicey, you know, issue by kind of by definition, but it still seemed to us as we worked through this that this issue of capacity, not just on warrants, but

186
00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:49.680
on all those other things, safety, um, competing uses, um, that kind of thing was important for, uh, particularly the harbor, the select board, the harbor master, the harbor advisor committee to think a little bit

187
00:51:49.680 --> 00:52:06.800
more deeply about um and try to put um some understanding of those intersecting challenges. Um so you know sort of a carrying capacity

188
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:21.680
in terms of environment and in terms of safety. I think we were pretty concerned about the intersection of ever larger power boats coming all the way down the harbor with kayaks and paddle boards in

189
00:52:21.680 --> 00:52:38.880
that kind of recreation because um one of the uh one of the things about a har I'm going to digress for a second. One of the things about a harbor management plan is if it becomes a state approved plan which we decided early on we're going to try to cross that hurdle

190
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:53.839
and I don't know what that hurdle requires. So um but it becomes a state uh approved plan um you can get certain or there there may be certain benefits that might be a revision when we know

191
00:52:53.839 --> 00:53:09.760
that those are benefits you want to to get but um public access because it's in D and with the chapter 91 license public access is a really important um question and the presumption from the urban

192
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:27.280
harbors is that you know that more public access is always better. Would you agree with me? And we pushed back on that too and said we have a lot of public access to the harbor and to the coast um say beach and um

193
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:42.960
many places you can launch a boat um particularly for residents um and uh significant views of the harbor and the um coast. Um so that was an area where I

194
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:58.400
think we they kept putting it back in that the goal should be more public access saying maintain the public access. Um and I guess that was sort of um uh one area that um

195
00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:13.280
that was you know an area we really thought a lot about that. Um and then the other thing is to uh continue to have public education about so that we have the next time a survey is done more

196
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:29.920
people know the right answers to to uh you know they don't want something that we already have for example um that's always an ongoing challenge as we know um and um

197
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:47.520
then under healthy uh water you want to speak to this one the um health water and water quality and that protection. Yeah, just that um when we go back just a little bit or up level there there were two major areas

198
00:54:47.520 --> 00:55:04.000
that we didn't really feel like we had enough data to enough information to make concrete recommendations and and this was one uh that the natural resources that we don't really know what's in the harbor from the natural

199
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:20.240
resource perspective. We don't know what fish are there. We don't know what uh plant life is there. We don't know what shellfish are there. Um and we don't know the condition. Um so we felt like there needed to be some further work done on this one in particular and

200
00:55:20.240 --> 00:55:37.119
also on on this question of capacity. Uh there there must be some firms out there that can do a capacity study for us and tell us as Sarah was saying, you've got too many

201
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:54.640
you exceeded the the normal capacity for uh moorings or just you exceeded the normal capacity for boat traffic or whatever >> or we have potential growth area >> or we've got potential for growth. Um so

202
00:55:54.640 --> 00:56:11.839
those were the two areas in general that didn't have a lot of we couldn't get our hands on much information and we wanted we wanted to know what what the situation was those cases. Yeah, we um on the capac going back on the harbor capacity, the urban harbors

203
00:56:11.839 --> 00:56:30.160
did say that they had never done a plan where they would lay the boats together on a regular basis >> on moorings. Boats in >> Oh, on moorings. >> On moorings regularly. Many boats are so close. And

204
00:56:30.160 --> 00:56:46.720
they said they did say that they were unaware of another they had not heard that before. >> So um so that that's a little piece that that shows that that to you know to us that felt like it's you know

205
00:56:46.720 --> 00:57:03.520
>> so you're saying that does happen in our walkers >> and we may be unique in that regard. >> Yes. I had never heard of that. The whole purpose of having the moring was so they don't hit each other. >> So we also did ask about data um I think

206
00:57:03.520 --> 00:57:20.240
it back to capacity that is there data about um accidents or about sinks or about um boats being hit and because you hear anecdotal and I think there may be data but the samples are small. So, you

207
00:57:20.240 --> 00:57:36.880
know, if you have one boat that's hit by a boat going through the harbor this year and you have two next year, it's 100% increase, but it's still only two, right? >> Um, and you could argue that two is too many, but we're well, you know, this any data is going to be small samples. the

208
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:54.160
numbers are, you know. Um, so determining what is in the harbor, the natural the health of our harbor helps us to then figure out what policies are being made. One of the things we debated for an example is anecdotally there's

209
00:57:54.160 --> 00:58:10.960
this feeling that um well certainly it seems that they have best practice to prohibit and I don't know if that's uh legal but but just for argument sake prohibit the application of fertilizer along um lawns that are going to run off

210
00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:28.000
into the harbor. But we didn't go that far because we don't know for sure that the algae blooms are being utilized if there's a loading from fertilizer runoff. So if you did some sampling after a rain, we might find the chemicals that are in fertilizer and

211
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:44.720
then um could be a basis for a policy. So that was the kind of thing we spend a fair amount of time looking at. Um and then the last goal support the local um economy. Um, and this one um

212
00:58:44.720 --> 00:59:01.440
was about recognizing that that we do have a marine economy. It has people who do moorings. It has people who are boatyards. It has the economy downtown for visitors. Um, and

213
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:16.480
and also the visitors who come and don't ever get on the water but look at it because it's, you know, or goes to the beach. Um and the fisheries infrastructure is important um and that

214
00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:33.359
water dependent uses um are important. That is um an area where the planning board is the um rep the party responsible um if there were zoning changes for example and um given that we

215
00:59:33.359 --> 00:59:50.240
are going to be looking at the general district that we will be looking at that. So I think that's the summary. Um happy to after you've had more than five minutes to look at it to reach out to me or not in terrace.

216
00:59:50.240 --> 01:00:04.640
Um but I think the question we really wanted to hear your input is how do we make this like modify? >> Yeah. I mean is too strong a word. How

217
01:00:04.640 --> 01:00:20.319
do we make sure that the um that we're all focusing on the >> plan doesn't go in and disappear? >> That's exactly the question. >> So there's a plan, but then there's an implementation plan which is different than right a strategy, >> right? Okay, we've assigned

218
01:00:20.319 --> 01:00:37.440
responsibility, but it doesn't really, you know, I mean, the other piece I guess I should have started with is that the name of the plan or the somewhere we really wanted to highlight that the harbor is a treasure and that it is somewhat,

219
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:53.119
you know, at risk. Um, certainly change with sea level rise, certainly increased use. It it stands to reason that that the natural resources are threatened. Um how much how fast was it is a is a

220
01:00:53.119 --> 01:01:08.559
question but but the treasure you know the views of the harbor um the harbor for the we have the you know for our school systems uh sports teams um those uh those kinds of things are important

221
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:25.599
pieces obviously of you know of Manchester that actually are enjoyed by are open to everyone in some capacity or another. Um, >> it's really the defining feature of the town,

222
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:42.400
Manchester. >> So, I have a question for Tony. So, how or or maybe you can answer it, Sarah. Um, what is the who gets who should be approving this plan? So this committee which we you know set off to do a great job and

223
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:57.920
they have this assuming wonderful plan but how what's the quote unquote approval process for something like this? I would think that the select board would have a role in that and then if you

224
01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:14.240
if you wanted to include it as like a section to the town's master plan >> um that might trigger the planning board's involvement as well or >> worthwhile for us to understand

225
01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:29.359
>> to look into that >> who should approve because then I think that a starting point to answer your question, who's responsible for ensuring it's implemented, right? So, there's the you guys have come up with your your thoughts on who's responsible, but once

226
01:02:29.359 --> 01:02:45.440
you understand who who should approve it, um you know, then we can the body can >> body your buddies go through that and say here who is here's who is responsible. >> It sounds it sounds like realistically

227
01:02:45.440 --> 01:03:01.440
there's going to not be just one steward of this, >> right? I mean, you're going to have an environmental part. You're going to have all these different parts. It's most likely going to get split up among >> my suggestion would be that you that you can it would be great if you approve the

228
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:16.799
plan, but um there may be things that you think are, you know, and we're kind of done. >> We've exhausted the the grant and the UHI spent more time than think they had budgeted, but um you

229
01:03:16.799 --> 01:03:32.000
could accept the plan. It is on the website that's you'd accept rather than approve maybe that if it matters. And then my suggestion is that we have a a workshop with those people who um are

230
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:48.400
those representatives from these groups that um or maybe full committees that are identified and that we kind of walk through how might we put these in action in more on common and that we sort of have a working

231
01:03:48.400 --> 01:04:04.240
session to tell people what this is even though they're supposed to have heard about it through the EA's months, but talk through a little bit more and say how might this become implemented? Um, which things are we

232
01:04:04.240 --> 01:04:20.400
able to get done under what time frame? So, that would be my suggestion is is that we have a conversation about it with in in some depth, you know, kind of a working session. Um, and does that make sense? Yeah, I would just add to it

233
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:34.720
that um and maybe this is in your report to me um but some someone ought to be responsible for seeing for coordinating not for necessarily executing and uh caring everything out but ensuring that things keep moving

234
01:04:34.720 --> 01:04:53.039
forward on the various different items. I I've got a when you say approval, I'm not sure what that means. Like you agree with the the results or you agree that the that it's a thorough report or >> I might say just accept it. >> Well, so I think

235
01:04:53.039 --> 01:05:08.720
>> accept it. I'm not sure what that >> So here's what I would suggest. If if you're going to have a plan, if the town is going to have a harbor management plan, in order for it to be a useful document, it means we're going to implement it. And if we're going to

236
01:05:08.720 --> 01:05:24.319
implement something, I I'm not afraid of using the word approve. I think we should approve a property management plan. I'm not disagreeing with your next steps, but maybe we accept it as a draft

237
01:05:24.319 --> 01:05:41.760
until we have a more um maybe a final public, whatever you want to call it, uh event to fine-tune it. >> We do have a public hearing Um I think Ann came and I think

238
01:05:41.760 --> 01:05:58.319
>> um and uh >> after its current state like the current state okay so yours >> um >> urban harbors did a very high level that's sort of that my suggestion but um and we did hear um a couple of concrete

239
01:05:58.319 --> 01:06:14.240
comments from an that we did like parking we did change that because people don't understand about what's allowed Um and the other comment we received is that the public hearing was uh too high level. >> So

240
01:06:14.240 --> 01:06:30.799
again I I still think we need to understand what an approval process might look like because a plan should guide what we do. So I'm a little uncomfortable um otherwise why are we doing it right? So,

241
01:06:30.799 --> 01:06:46.720
I'm a little uncomfortable having an unapproved plan guide what we do. I know it's language. >> I look at it, I think, >> you know, at this this phase of a pro of of something, it's not necessarily that everything in the plan is something that

242
01:06:46.720 --> 01:07:05.200
the select board is going to say this is the direction we want the town to follow, >> right? >> That doesn't mean you edit the plan, right? you can accept the plan and then the elements that the select board all or some uh want to you know focus on

243
01:07:05.200 --> 01:07:20.000
implementation that's that's kind of another phase I mean I look at like >> I don't want to approve a plan that has pieces in it that I don't want to have done >> right yeah so that what Ann said but also let's say like today we had the whole discussion on Ocean Street right

244
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:36.400
so let's say we come up with some ideas that are in direct directly conflict lict what's in that plan, the harbor management plan. That would make me a little uncomfortable. >> Right. Right. >> Right. So, I think that's why I'm pushing on let's, like I said, we

245
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:51.920
haven't had two seconds to to read this thing. Let let's read it. Let's digest it, come back and have a real discussion on how to implement it or what parts we're uncomfortable implementing. And then ultimately somebody in town hall has to own h has to have some ownership

246
01:07:51.920 --> 01:08:08.640
stake in each piece most likely that they may not drive because it may not be a high priority but whatever work they're doing should not be in direct conflict with it without bringing that before the board. >> Right?

247
01:08:08.640 --> 01:08:24.960
>> You know what I'm saying? It's a guide point. >> Ocean Street the first recommendation is plan for climate change. It says we said the town should complete a coastal bon action plan for the portion of the town that's not included in the existing

248
01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:41.199
vulnerable plan. So oceans work on Ocean Street is actually in is consistent with that. >> I'm glad to hear that. >> So um >> but if it wasn't right then that would be a problem. I was one if I hadn't heard that you were going to do anything

249
01:08:41.199 --> 01:08:55.920
on Ocean Street, right? >> And I was a resident, I could say, well, >> you you should be planning for Ocean Street because it's a known problem and it's outside of where the existing >> vulnerability plan exists. So, so I think that that's a way that at least

250
01:08:55.920 --> 01:09:12.719
being familiar with what we came up with and for sure, you know, there will be recommendations that >> maybe um but those, you know, it's it's some of it's pretty common sense, >> right? >> Um but when you talk about the density,

251
01:09:12.719 --> 01:09:29.359
I just did a quick AI search. It it is odd that the consultants were not able to help you more in that regard. Um seems like the US Army Corps of Engineers might have some guidance. Um there's rules of thumb here. Engineering

252
01:09:29.359 --> 01:09:45.759
technical standards. Certainly the types of moorings, the more modern ones allow for higher density. Uh you know that's something that Bion has been telling us. So >> it it feels weird that no one could do the math for you to help us with the capacity. Capacity is something that's really basic. We started this before.

253
01:09:45.759 --> 01:10:01.360
>> Yeah. Right. Exactly. But that but that's but that's what I'm saying there. There's there should be help out there, right? There should be help out there. Um >> I think it's Yeah, it's just a matter of >> this first one that was Yeah, we didn't we were >> it's going to be

254
01:10:01.360 --> 01:10:15.840
>> Did you say that the Urban Institute more or less is done? >> Yes. >> Yes, they're done. >> Okay. All right. So, we've got what we've got, right? >> And you say, "Hey, accept it or you don't accept it." So, you don't accept it. What happens? Nothing. >> You can send another committee out to

255
01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:33.199
rev that's not practical. No, I'm It looks like this. And all I've done at this point is kind of skimmed the executive summary. That's all I've done. And any report like this, I want actionable recommendations. Otherwise, I'm just reading stuff. And right now, it looks

256
01:10:33.199 --> 01:10:48.640
like there are several. And as Anne says, yeah, maybe there are a lot of them and a few of them I don't agree with. And if you go around their own, everybody's not going to agree with all of them. But so long as there are actionable items that we all kind of agree make sense, just you can do

257
01:10:48.640 --> 01:11:05.199
something with this. >> I mean, that's what we tried to do. We tried to come up with things that were actual. >> Okay. Well, I mean I mean we'll read it, but what we've got is what we've got. It's not going to >> I mean >> change from this point. And I think I think it's important for us to approve

258
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:20.159
whatever we publish out there because Tony's team should be using it as a guide >> to to uh make investments or not make investments because they're contrary to what we think we desire. you know, the plan.

259
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:35.920
>> It's entirely possible if you if you do take it seriously and you want to send it back to the committee on a particular >> aspect or whatever, I think we'd probably be willing to meet again, >> of course. So, the kind of like specific

260
01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:52.719
areas, not a not a major Yeah. some specific issue. >> So, uh question has I know you had members from the harbor advisory committee on York's committee. >> We went to the harbor. >> That was going to be my question. So you did and have they provided you with any feedback or had an opportunity to review

261
01:11:52.719 --> 01:12:08.400
the entire >> thing for the forum? We have 496 survey >> which is high. >> But have they reviewed the final product? >> Um Henry went >> Henry went to their

262
01:12:08.400 --> 01:12:26.239
>> Henry's on his hand up. He might be able to answer. >> Yeah. Okay. Who's was that Henry? Yeah. >> Henry. >> Okay. Okay. Yes. >> Hi. >> Thanks very much. Henry Outinger, 22 School Street. I was on the Harbor

263
01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:42.000
Planning Task Force. Um we spent about two years, you know, putting this together. I guess I just want to say a couple quick things. The recommendations are are in place. They're there. You don't no one has to read the uh entire

264
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:56.960
document um to get the the the gist of things. So, we created, you know, a set of tables that have our recommendations. And I just want to focus everybody on the one of the last columns in that that

265
01:12:56.960 --> 01:13:14.560
those tables are who we think um would be appropriate to help implement those recommendations. And so, in my view, um select board would help a lot with just looking at those and saying, "Yeah,

266
01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:30.159
that's those are the right people. those aren't the right people or here are some more people we could get for that. But everything is in place. Um I think it could be digested in 30 minutes um if you stick with the five tables of um

267
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:46.080
goals that we that we set out for. >> That's it. >> That's really helpful. Thank you. >> Yes, that tells us how to approach this. >> So could we put this you know give us Yeah. Yep. And then one and 30 seconds to review and and maybe come back at

268
01:13:46.080 --> 01:14:02.480
another meeting. >> Yeah. >> Right. So the action Yeah. I mean, so we all have to review this. I think then we have to decide who's going to accept this. I mean, my default right now is the committee, but you're very close to this and we have to have others that I think are >> So I think we have voted to

269
01:14:02.480 --> 01:14:18.880
>> Okay. Yeah, I mean we the other thing I will I just want to I'm digressing but we literally wrote this in public session. It is the most painful thing. I don't know what the answer to that is but we went through every single edit in a

270
01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:33.760
public feed. It's very difficult to do that. So um we gave feedback or we gave feedback to UHI but then they reviewed I mean it was tedious

271
01:14:33.760 --> 01:14:51.120
>> bit tedious but the committee was sufficiently uh genial that so that it it it wasn't that painful my opinion >> I don't know >> that's one man's interpretation

272
01:14:51.120 --> 01:15:07.280
>> okay anyway yeah so anyway thank you to I We're glad you're interested at >> signing on at the late notice and I give everybody very late. >> No, no. All right. Well, we will be back to you with, you know, within the next

273
01:15:07.280 --> 01:15:24.320
uh couple of meetings or so this story. >> Thank you. Thank you guys. Really appreciate. >> Thank you very much for uh two years. >> Tedious work. >> I know it's a long time. >> Two years. You'll never get back. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Okay. We'll be faster.

274
01:15:24.320 --> 01:15:43.520
>> All right. Palestar flag design. >> That's right. >> Okay. Thank you very much, Sarah. Um, let's see. The next one is this advocacy plan. Kathy, was this you? >> I just wanted to have a discussion on

275
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:59.840
it. Doesn't have to be a long one. >> Okay. But um it was more aligned with um so I made the comment at a prior meeting that we have new representation at the state house. We will have new representation in Congress and some of

276
01:15:59.840 --> 01:16:16.320
the challenges that we have regarding controlling costs, you know, the expensive buildings we get to build and and whatever other infrastructure investments we make. A lot of the costs that drive that um the the the higher costs are driven

277
01:16:16.320 --> 01:16:33.679
by regulations or laws or bureaucracy that um don't come from this town, you know, and and there are other, you know, climate resilience. We we may need some funding for different things that we don't have right now, but we don't seem

278
01:16:33.679 --> 01:16:51.679
to have a cohesive voice to um really advocate for our position with our representatives, whether it be at the state level or the federal level. We we we try and fund everything ourselves and then we also try and you know Tony's

279
01:16:51.679 --> 01:17:09.199
team does a great job getting grants but when we get a grant it just means we're paying for something out of our right pocket instead of our left pocket because we all pay state and federal taxes too. So, I think it's time for us to think about what are those things we

280
01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:25.520
would like to see change or what are those things we would like to advocate for at the state level and at the federal level and partner with other like-minded towns um to try and institute some type of change. um you

281
01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:40.480
know at the state level we have the MMA I think that's the right acronym right >> um that Mass Municipal Association they um advocate for certain changes to state law to make it easier for towns to do

282
01:17:40.480 --> 01:17:55.840
business and you know our lieutenant governor she was a mayor she you know if you can speak to her on an issue with a consolidated voice you know 20 towns go to her and say hey we need this you know people can listen and and at the state

283
01:17:55.840 --> 01:18:12.800
level a lot a lot of that advocacy I think is I think is done through the MMA but you know we don't have we're not really engaged in that. >> Well I don't know I wonder if this is a solution looking for a problem.

284
01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:29.840
>> We we've got a problem. >> Yeah. >> Um it's just I'm looking at it and saying okay as the story goes who's going to bell that cat? Yeah. >> Well, I think it start for me it starts with if we wish if we could wave a magic

285
01:18:29.840 --> 01:18:46.719
wand and change something at the state or federal level, what would it be? You know, just as far as the bureaucracy that we encounter on a day-to-day basis. I don't know what that is. I would need Tony's help to articulate that. And if there were some things that we

286
01:18:46.719 --> 01:19:02.800
identified that gosh, if we could change those for you, like Chuck and Nate, their area, if we could remove these these bureaucratic laws, whatever they are, pick one or two things. Are there other towns and cities that have the same problem? You know, what should we

287
01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:19.920
do to join with those other towns to advocate for changing the laws of the state? That's how you drive change. Um, and I feel like we're putting the entire burden on Tony and his team to do that advocacy at the state level. Well, we have, you know, residents here who can

288
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:35.360
write to their congressman, write to their representative. There are people here who in town who are politically engaged. And if we gave them a message, you know, say, "Help us with this." Um, I think they would. I just don't know what to ask them. This is uh we just did

289
01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:51.040
we just did that, didn't Andy, as far as uh meeting with area uh harbor masses and and uh state elected officials as far as changing some of the uh post requirements for uh so we've already

290
01:19:51.040 --> 01:20:06.960
started that. We we it's not uncommon and I think that maybe it's on a more of a uh per issue basis. >> That's what I mean. It's I'm not Yeah, I'm not looking for a comprehensive let's do everything, but I feel like >> Well, building costs are too expensive.

291
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:23.199
Let's repeal Davis Bacon. >> Well, but there are some things in there, small things like um uh you know, earthquake I'm just throw something out there. Earthquake requirements. You know what? >> Not every town needs their buildings to be earthquake proof. Maybe ours does

292
01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:40.320
because we're in Cape, but not every town does. That it adds cost, you know. So there are probably some requirements. >> I talking building codes. Maybe >> it could be I don't know what I'm like I said I'm just throwing it out there to what we do today is just deal with it.

293
01:20:40.320 --> 01:20:55.280
You know I hate to use the phrase excuse me suck it up and deal with it. You know the the state law is what it is and we don't think we have the power to change any of that. And we do if we you know advocate and work better with other towns. My struggle is I don't know what

294
01:20:55.280 --> 01:21:10.400
to ask for but I think I sense that there is something >> the funding sources are the issue are the main issue >> and we we do a lot of that >> already >> uh in different forms >> y

295
01:21:10.400 --> 01:21:26.159
>> um in fact we about 25 of the surrounding towns we were uh really Lynfield was kind of the uh the leader on it. Uh we were trying to get all of our local our state reps

296
01:21:26.159 --> 01:21:41.760
and senators there and we had worked as a group at the manager level to formulate what our asks >> yes >> you know were um we couldn't get the legislators to show

297
01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:56.960
up. Well, that's what I'm doing here. >> We, you know, and and we do we have a lot of those discussions in a regional capacity, whether that's through MMA, MAPC, just our municipal managers, small

298
01:21:56.960 --> 01:22:14.800
town managers, associations, and we advocate for different types of legislation through those groups or oppose certain legislation through those groups. Um, ultimately it I think you know where it falls short is at the

299
01:22:14.800 --> 01:22:29.760
legislature at the state house and really >> you know kind of filling the room so to speak >> right >> with voices. Um, one of the big things that I was pushing with that most recent effort that a lot of the other

300
01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:44.800
municipalities agreed with and MMA chimed in too was that there should be some sort of at the mun at the legislature level >> when a any bill >> any law is being proposed and it meets a

301
01:22:44.800 --> 01:23:02.719
you know uh third reading type stage like it's ready to be put on the floor for vote. There should be a municipal impact committee or you know review process because many of these regs

302
01:23:02.719 --> 01:23:19.199
uh laws requirements >> um end up having a significant impact on our budget. I I every town manager says the same thing. It's you know we all we we love these policies. They're they,

303
01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:34.560
you know, we're supportive of all these policies that are, you know, protecting the environment or, you know, protecting public safety and and these are all really important policies. The trickle down effect is >> they're unfunded mandates. >> They're unfunded mandates and the

304
01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:52.080
consultants >> the consultants are the ones that you're forced to because no town can manage these things on their own. You're forced to hire a consultant for each one of these different things. um and it ends up being really costly to the town. Um

305
01:23:52.080 --> 01:24:08.239
we do I also I you know on an individual basis >> right >> have probably monthly or every other month this uh communication with the senator and the and now repar as well. Um and we

306
01:24:08.239 --> 01:24:25.679
have um less frequent communication with the federal delegation unless there is a particular project that we have in front of them will stay will you know like I' I've talked to Congressman Molton's office really frequently about

307
01:24:25.679 --> 01:24:42.960
>> the culvert the brick grant um Marky's office about the senior center um so there's a lot of that stuff is happening it's not a bad idea for us to think about, you know, what are the some of the struggles that we have with either state

308
01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:58.719
law, state rag or whatever that we see come up a lot and that that's something that I can bring to the other communities and try to support the support for and track that process. I think it would be helpful for

309
01:24:58.719 --> 01:25:15.040
us to be more aware of what they are because you have, you know, how many 2500 voting residents in this town who are likely willing to help and I suspect residents in other towns. So those those those people you mentioned, they are

310
01:25:15.040 --> 01:25:33.920
elected. Okay. And I I don't feel you and your team should be the only ones doing the advocacy. If we have a better understanding of what you're ad advocating for and for whom, you know, that plan, then we can engage the public

311
01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:48.719
in writing to their elected officials and and helping speak. That's how Proposition two and a half was, you know, Yeah. created, right? It was grassroots. >> I'll I'll tell you something. after going through the whole lottery

312
01:25:48.719 --> 01:26:05.600
situation at Essex Tech and that and it falls on deaf ears and people get discouraged because they write letters they do I can't even tell you the amount of conversations the meetings statewide the people writing letters there was

313
01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:20.960
letters that would fill this building and you know what happened >> I'm aware >> and they ended up exactly with the same thing they pushed it through and this is what happens at the end too >> at the last minute. >> Yeah. >> So, this is why people get discouraged

314
01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:37.360
and they don't want to do these things. >> I understand. I just don't get easily discouraged. >> Okay. Well, >> that's not easily discouraged. Three, >> but I'm just saying conversations >> around circle and you want where you're at. The cars are here every month.

315
01:26:37.360 --> 01:26:52.560
>> Yep. >> You know, or or they're representative. And I will tell you right now, Nenah, who is uh Drew Tarsus, she would show up here, right, >> and there's never anybody here. And I think she's she was here like Tuesdays. She's changed her schedule. Now she's

316
01:26:52.560 --> 01:27:08.960
showing up to senior caucus, >> right? >> Because now she's got 30 or 40 people >> who can who can do that. And you know that's an opportunity when these people show up. It's an opportunity to not only to bend their ear to say what are you hearing from other other towns

317
01:27:08.960 --> 01:27:24.159
>> that are problems because we don't know what we don't know necessarily sitting here. I think the department heads know and I know Chuck is working for instance on the um the water drought thing. He's trying to get us out of out of that. There's a group a working group that's trying to get us out of this uh state

318
01:27:24.159 --> 01:27:39.840
right state mandated thing. So I think them as those folks showing up here monthly uh is an opportunity to kind of jumpst start. >> Where should we start with this? >> I agree. I I think my only point is when

319
01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:55.360
the the legislators meet with us wherever we might see them. We're all giving them our own individual opinions. If we had it's like a marketing plan. It's an advocacy plan. We all had the same message. What we would do is at those coffees, we would amplify the

320
01:27:55.360 --> 01:28:11.199
message. You know, it's it's how change can actually happen as opposed to everybody just speaking with different voices. >> It's a challenge to say, "All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna canvas all of these other towns and see what their top three." >> No, but that's what the that's what the

321
01:28:11.199 --> 01:28:26.560
committees are for, the MMA. I So, I like, for example, John, you might take a look at I know you went to some of the MMA events. I have as well. you may consider. Is that something that you want to be engaged in the select board MMA? Maybe

322
01:28:26.560 --> 01:28:42.080
not. Maybe, you know, one of us could do that. But I'm just suggesting we don't really we're we're missing an opportunity to engage and and relying completely on what Tony's team is doing and if we could find a way to help um

323
01:28:42.080 --> 01:28:58.639
not change what you're doing, but you know, amplify what you're trying to do. you're you're you're ad hoc the opportunities come up and you say, "All right, let's drill down on this. Let's drill down on that." >> I think that that's 50. >> I I you know, like I'm on the

324
01:28:58.639 --> 01:29:14.400
MMA, you know, we meet regularly. Uh Northshore task force meets regularly. MAPC re meets regularly. I'm on the >> environment and energy subcommittee for MMA. We meet regularly. We talk about a lot of the energy policy and legislation

325
01:29:14.400 --> 01:29:30.719
that's happening or you know the budget and key municipal impact you know policy that's being featured and uh so some of it is on a regular schedule. Some of it is

326
01:29:30.719 --> 01:29:46.960
uh we get notified that a grant opportunity is available and we evaluate whether it's something we want to go after. Some of some of it is we have projects that we know we're trying to push for. So, we're actively seeking out grant opportunities for that. Um, so

327
01:29:46.960 --> 01:30:03.040
it's not one track or one process. Um, I don't I do think though to Kathy's point. Uh, there is there's some value in having some methodology to the approach.

328
01:30:03.040 --> 01:30:20.320
You know, for instance, the the issue, the post issue that uh us small communities like ours, uh, Western Mass communities like ours

329
01:30:20.320 --> 01:30:39.600
have felt a an in insane impact on the elimination of part-time reserve police academy, >> right? Um, you know, there's no way that that policy change is going to uh

330
01:30:39.600 --> 01:30:57.360
get momentum at the legislature this time around because we're the session's about to end, right? So, having some method, some Yeah. >> mindset of, okay, what do you think the top priorities of the legislature is going to be next session? >> Yes. and what should we, you know, when

331
01:30:57.360 --> 01:31:12.239
should we be if we want to draft a bill? Yeah. You know, working with other municipalities, what's the timeline for that? When should we be pushing it? Who should we be talking to? So, there's some there definitely is some value to kind of thinking long term about how you

332
01:31:12.239 --> 01:31:28.080
push certain types of ideas or or policy changes and things like that and matching that up with >> otherwise at the state house, they're making it up. I like I like the idea of drafting bills with other communities because that >> puts it in their hands. Like you can

333
01:31:28.080 --> 01:31:43.679
have a million conversations and it's it's all it is is a conversation, but when you got something to hand them and say this is what we're doing. >> I I think you you start >> you start amongst us to what what are

334
01:31:43.679 --> 01:31:59.199
the uh the issues that we're facing. Then you start working with the other municipalities, find out if they're facing the same issues. Then you start to start brainstorm what solutions, legislative solutions could be available for that and game plan, the timing of

335
01:31:59.199 --> 01:32:16.080
introducing that and how you're going to advocate for it. >> I you mentioned post. Um I think as the facilities planning committee starts looking, you know, we've just gotten started looking at different things. I I think we might identify some themes, right? Um because the process that we

336
01:32:16.080 --> 01:32:33.760
have to go through to, you know, build a municipal building, it's it's crazy. And now we're going to take a look at a $91 million elementary school for under 300 students. Hello. There's got to be something there, right? >> Wage. There's a good topic right there.

337
01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:49.440
>> It's not It's not necessarily just that. It could be the pebbles of everybody's good ideas being added on to how you should build a building and and at the end of the day you don't realize that you've just added, you know, a boulder to your to your budget. >> To that example, there's been momentum

338
01:32:49.440 --> 01:33:06.560
at the legislature for the creation of an MSBA, but for municipal buildings, public safety buildings. um >> that could be a good thing or a bad >> different legislative proposals. Um but you know,

339
01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:23.840
you could look at that and if it's something that we're interested in or or want to try for >> sure if we're afraid of what might happen to your point, you know, work with other communities to draft legislation so it gets done in a way that won't hurt um towns as opposed to

340
01:33:23.840 --> 01:33:39.600
just leaving it up to the state. At least you have a template out there of what you want to do. I mean, I >> I could get behind that. Just haven't I've I've just been down the road of conversations and it leads to nothing. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. And it depends who you're conversing with, too.

341
01:33:39.600 --> 01:33:56.080
>> I I think a lot of this starts with the fact that you've got to have some common concerns and interests. Yes. From a lot of different towns so you can all get behind something. And I'm trying to figure out the vehicle to find that out. other than through the say the

342
01:33:56.080 --> 01:34:11.760
representatives representatives tar and tar who their business is to find out what's going on in the other communities and what the concerns are or are not and maybe we find a couple of themes. I think a lot of these a lot of these towns we all have the same

343
01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:26.080
>> I would I would think so. >> Um >> the big one right now has been chapter 70 funding >> funding. Um, and there's it seems like this the state is making some progress on that through the budget

344
01:34:26.080 --> 01:34:43.760
process, but that's been the biggest common issue amongst municipalities that has risen to like actual level of >> because it's so far behind. It's it's so out of control. Oh, you you got to know

345
01:34:43.760 --> 01:34:59.280
going into what we're talking about, >> you it may not have an a true impact for years, right? >> Or at all, >> right? But it's not a bad idea to be organized on, >> you know, the issues that we're facing. And

346
01:34:59.280 --> 01:35:16.000
>> I mean that that's a good example of that chapter 70 fights been going on for, >> you know, over a decade. Anyway, >> and now it's finally slowly gaining traction because it's so far behind. uh municipal modernization act a couple

347
01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:31.760
years ago and most recently too. There was a lot of involvement at the municipal level as far as increasing the thresholds for procurement requirements and things like that. >> Procurement change. That's a really good example. It's the structural good ideas

348
01:35:31.760 --> 01:35:46.960
that get put in >> to leg to processes and they don't change or stay up to date with the times. So 20 years later, you're still living with the decisions people made 20 years ago and it's killing you now, right? Those it's it's like house

349
01:35:46.960 --> 01:36:03.840
cleaning. You know, you you got to clean your house. You got to clean your policies. You got to clean your regulations. And the and the state house, the state representatives and the federal ones, too. They're always looking to do something new. The top the stuff I'm talking about is the unglamorous stuff that really matters.

350
01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:19.920
You know, >> here's a good example. School choice. School of Choice was set at $5,000 in 1993. Hasn't moved since. >> Exactly. That's a really good example, you know. So, I mean, like I said, I'm not smart

351
01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:37.199
enough to know what the right things are that we could get organized around, but I'm just suggesting we figure out, you know, ask Tony, you know, what what might they be, pick one or two things and and then we, >> you know, I I I see Nina every two or

352
01:36:37.199 --> 01:36:53.360
three weeks who is and says sometimes Drew shows up and chat with him, you know, what are the top three things and one of those has got that it's something that we'd be strongly interested in uh that they're hearing from their various

353
01:36:53.360 --> 01:37:10.320
constituents. This constituent >> a couple weeks ago I met with the inspector general um some you know increasing those thresholds again >> y >> um the requirement for procurement certification you know they're looking at potentially

354
01:37:10.320 --> 01:37:30.080
making some changes there. Uh, I talked to him a little bit about um our experience with our trash contract. >> I and I suggested that that be a they should look at like a state bid process

355
01:37:30.080 --> 01:37:45.760
every couple years where towns, you know, right now you're almost feel handcuffed in a way. Um, you he thought that was a good idea, too. So those are the types of thing like that

356
01:37:45.760 --> 01:38:01.199
>> those conversations are helpful but getting more voices behind them. >> Yeah. Like what would be a priority thing that if we >> you know use the power of the residents in this town and the surrounding what would what would really move the needle because you know you're in it dayto-day

357
01:38:01.199 --> 01:38:16.880
we're not we can't help with everything but there may be one or two things that if we all push hard we could make a difference. That was the purpose of this conversation. >> I guess you just got to identify >> as they come along >> out in the area. What what is the

358
01:38:16.880 --> 01:38:33.520
>> I mean number your your number one is going to be local aid. >> Local 100%. >> So um what's the right phrase? The un um undesated or >> undesated fund balance. >> Um giving municipalities the power to

359
01:38:33.520 --> 01:38:51.119
spend it how they want. >> Yeah. >> I forget what the phrase is that they use. Uh but that >> okay >> if you look at um a lot of the reports put out by like mass fiscal alliance recently uh because Prop 2 and a half has been

360
01:38:51.119 --> 01:39:07.119
such a big topic. >> Uh a lot of the case studies that they've worked on is showing the reduction in local aid over the years and how that's putting such a that's why Prop 2 and a half is under such pressure now. Um so

361
01:39:07.119 --> 01:39:23.040
that's I would say across all 351 communities that's everyone is saying the same thing. We need more local aid from the state but that's >> I would say there's local aid but also there has to be in and in in any large

362
01:39:23.040 --> 01:39:40.159
organization there is bureaucracy. Okay. Whether it's the the the thresholds that haven't been raised for 20 years or it's extra steps that were put in place years ago that are no longer needed because of technology advances. There's

363
01:39:40.159 --> 01:39:55.679
bureaucracy. sometimes not adding something, but sometimes taking something away and letting you be more efficient and faster in in how you execute can also um be be worth more than a dollar in local aid,

364
01:39:55.679 --> 01:40:12.239
>> you know. So, those are those are the pieces that I would, you know, someone outside of town hall may not be able to articulate and where I think we need some help. So, >> all right, I want to keep moving on here. >> Thank you. >> Yes. So, um I know that I will uh with

365
01:40:12.239 --> 01:40:30.320
Junar and what their hot buttons seem to be, but Tony, I I defer to your comment on local aid. I think that's it's always money. Um next one, procedure for Zoom failures affecting hybrid public

366
01:40:30.320 --> 01:40:46.400
meetings. And did you bring this up? is really dealing with >> the for example the finance committee on its agenda says the hybrid is available as a convenience if it fails then we go

367
01:40:46.400 --> 01:41:01.280
ahead >> tough luck >> tough luck >> right >> um as far as I know the select board doesn't have that policy and we certainly make every effort to bring the hybrid

368
01:41:01.280 --> 01:41:16.880
up when Even if it means means delaying the meeting somewhat. >> Yeah. Should we make should we make some sort of a policy and add this to our policy collection? >> I Yes. But I'd like to hear what other and I will make

369
01:41:16.880 --> 01:41:34.320
you have the policy. My concern is that we need to let people know so that if somebody has urgent business, they will be here in person. >> Well, the uh >> and then there's the travel with the meet in person. right here. Here's my notes right here.

370
01:41:34.320 --> 01:41:52.239
the uh no but I think that one of the things uh when this first came up discussions is it's on the uh usually I think the finance committee and uh and ZBA same same chair uh it should say under the uh disclaimer on the uh on the

371
01:41:52.239 --> 01:42:07.679
agenda >> that it's uh this is courtesy I can hear but uh I had the wording somewhere basically states that uh the because again because the chair there and there's a quorum in in present, they can

372
01:42:07.679 --> 01:42:24.159
continue to deliberate >> and and then you like you say, if it's really really important, they will show up in person. Um, but on those rare occasions when all of a sudden you get Zoom bombed or something like that and we have to shut it down, >> the meeting will continue and but that's

373
01:42:24.159 --> 01:42:40.960
what should be just right on the agenda itself. Yeah. >> But the problem is is that boards that are running a quorum with people on Zoom. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Open meeting law. If you if you uh are running a hybrid meeting, it has to

374
01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:56.480
be posted as a hybrid meeting on the agenda and if you have a quorum in person and for some reason the remote ability is disrupted, you can continue the meeting in person. You should then it's recommended I

375
01:42:56.480 --> 01:43:13.040
believe it's not required but it's highly recommended that the language that the finance committee puts on their agenda on their agenda you know be on ours too >> right >> so I I don't think we really need a policy other than we should just start putting that on >> disclaimer on all basically >> so it should this should be an across

376
01:43:13.040 --> 01:43:27.360
the board for all >> committees so it should be a quorum the chair and the quorum should be present in in the room >> you have to have a quorum present in order to continue as the chair. >> You don't have a quorum and even if someone calls in, we don't have the

377
01:43:27.360 --> 01:43:43.440
quorum in person, then the um doesn't go on. >> I think I'm hearing two different things. You're talking about hybrid meetings. >> Are you suggesting Okay, you're just talking hybrid. You're not suggesting that meetings should not be hybrid. >> No, no. I think I think I am a big fan

378
01:43:43.440 --> 01:43:58.239
of hybrid because there are a lot more people can be engaged. All right. And there are times and now I've sat through a bunch of ZBA meetings. There are times when that a presenter, an applicant will come in via uh

379
01:43:58.239 --> 01:44:14.719
>> you know by zoom and then there are times that they're here. I mean we balance back and forth between inerson hearing and then sort of calling in. Okay. Uh but the the the common thread has to be as you point out

380
01:44:14.719 --> 01:44:29.119
there has to be a quorum the chair has to be present and it has to be posted as such. Let me double check on the chair piece. >> Okay. >> Uh, prior I >> think there just has to be a quorum in the room. >> Yeah. Prior to CO,

381
01:44:29.119 --> 01:44:46.480
um, the chair had to be present. Once CO hit and they kind of they've now we're under these >> extended three times alternative open meeting law. It may not require that the chair be present. The chair call in.

382
01:44:46.480 --> 01:45:03.600
>> Yeah. You know, when Anna's doing her August sail around the world >> or trying to get to Maine and then John sits in John would sit in his >> chair. You would attend but you wouldn't be the chair. >> Cathedral might not have been required. We did it as a

383
01:45:03.600 --> 01:45:19.040
>> or whatever. >> I think that >> No, I think that >> or was it required? >> It it would have been >> the chair had to be in the room. >> The chair had to be in person. It would be our policy >> if we know that the chair is going to be >> going skiing.

384
01:45:19.040 --> 01:45:34.239
>> Uh well, and that will happen for an extended >> and I that happened on at least two occasions I know with you calling in from >> Yeah. >> But you ran the meeting. >> That's correct. Yes. Understood. >> That all makes sense to me.

385
01:45:34.239 --> 01:45:49.520
>> And I'm precoid openwah wouldn't allow the chair to call in So in that case many boards what would they do is they would appoint someone else to be chair >> knowing that was going to happen

386
01:45:49.520 --> 01:46:06.639
>> when co when the extended open law changed because of COVID they eliminated that part. So I think under the current rules it's okay for a chairperson to call in. So even if

387
01:46:06.639 --> 01:46:23.520
>> and serve as chair. >> Yes. So, I'll double check that. But if so, if our Zoom >> uh >> and were to fail >> were to fail and and the chairperson was on the Zoom. >> Yeah. >> Uh if we could figure out a way to phone

388
01:46:23.520 --> 01:46:39.280
you in to the meeting, we could still run it in person. But let me let me double check that because the >> and again I'd like to revisit making this uh a policy for all judiciatory boards.

389
01:46:39.280 --> 01:46:55.520
>> I think it's important that we have uh uh you know there's a simple word I used to know the word but consistency across the board as far as uh how all how all our boards operate >> and >> but this is two different conflicts. two

390
01:46:55.520 --> 01:47:10.080
different >> but no but here we're talking about it though we're here >> that this is gerine to it >> yes >> so well to to that point if the other thing I want to look into is if you're not a hybrid meeting and it's purely

391
01:47:10.080 --> 01:47:28.320
posted as a Zoom virtual meeting >> and you have a disruption there's something in the law that gives you x amount of time to get it restarted I don't know if it's 15 minutes or half an hour you got to look at that but um

392
01:47:28.320 --> 01:47:43.920
there you're more limited as to whether that meeting can continue. >> Yeah. So to make it more >> and open you know and more readily available to the uh the general public then again I revisit my hybrid

393
01:47:43.920 --> 01:48:00.000
especially now that uh with the untimely judgment Jeffrey >> and I know that Olga Hayes wants to step down. We're going to have at least two openings on the concom as we start to interview candidates, you know, let them be aware of what the

394
01:48:00.000 --> 01:48:16.800
requirements are. >> Okay. We always talk about do you have the time to do these things, but again, not just >> time to do it in person. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, I mean, that's why we need to balance the board membership with um how teams want to run their own meetings,

395
01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:33.840
you know. I I think it's com and we should deliberate that at a different time because we didn't put that on the agenda. But I I do think we need to have the final deliberation and >> all right >> settle that issue. >> So So Tony, you need to check on a couple of things with regard to what

396
01:48:33.840 --> 01:48:51.040
>> regardless I can start. We need to make uh sure that all agendas in the future posted with that language that if there's any disruption with the for our meetings. >> Yes. Just the select board is what I mean. >> Yeah. >> Uh that will continue.

397
01:48:51.040 --> 01:49:07.440
>> They continue. >> What about the other boards of committee? So can we just make that a blanket policy or >> that's about the discussion? You know, I think that that's something that you have the authority to do that those boards that are appointed by the select board, you

398
01:49:07.440 --> 01:49:24.400
can create that policy that's either requiring it to be hybrid or if you are hybrid um you know including that language so that you're able to continue in person if anything happens to the virtual

399
01:49:24.400 --> 01:49:41.040
technology. Basically the uh I think we ripped that from the town went actually I think uh >> there's there's more to it too is as as far as recording. >> Um >> did you mention it was being recorded? >> Yes I did this time.

400
01:49:41.040 --> 01:49:56.480
>> She did. >> You know the some some boards don't record. Um, some boards record, but the recording isn't being posted on the website. Um,

401
01:49:56.480 --> 01:50:11.679
you know, we should be doing that. We should be >> It's a public record once it's recorded. It's a public record. So, we should be posting it on the website >> so anybody can find it whenever they need to. >> Do a pretty good job. >> We do

402
01:50:11.679 --> 01:50:26.800
>> for the most part, but it's there isn't a consistent policy, >> you So that's something else that should be looked at, too. >> All right. All right. Well, I I I think that needs to go kind of in tandem with this. We really need to get that straightened out. >> They got the adjudicatory boards with

403
01:50:26.800 --> 01:50:46.480
the exception I think concom works, you know. So, >> uh the other committees to be honest, I don't know. >> Uh you know, I think any volunteer committees, you know, whether you're talking down downtown improvement is completely virtual. Okay. Um, I I would

404
01:50:46.480 --> 01:51:03.119
not recommend um any type of mandatory hybrid or in-person component. I think we do need to educate them though on what to put on their agendas that if there is a technical issue, you know, and we we don't have a quar, you know,

405
01:51:03.119 --> 01:51:18.800
we can't talk, then the meeting ends. I think they do that anyway. If they're completely virtual, >> if they are, yeah, they have no choice. No, no, the CPC again, Jack has been very vocal about uh virtual and again in as much as it doesn't impact an applicant. >> That's what I mean.

406
01:51:18.800 --> 01:51:35.280
>> So, I mean, I have no problem with that. >> There's there's even some there's some basic training, >> right? >> Uh some some committees will put, you know, like a broad like open item

407
01:51:35.280 --> 01:51:50.880
>> on their agenda, right? which technically to open meaning law, right, >> you're not supposed to deliberate on something that isn't properly noticed, you know. >> So, we did board training like three years ago. We haven't done it since. Um, you may want to talk to Debbie um

408
01:51:50.880 --> 01:52:07.599
because she had been coordinating communication >> talking about >> um and Sue Croft actually I think the boards helped us coordinate getting the board chairs trained. And so between Debbie and Sue, I think um they have the

409
01:52:07.599 --> 01:52:24.080
means necessary to to do that. >> Okay. So for the next meeting, Tony, can you pull together a for the just for the select board the policy that will be followable? >> Do you is there an existing policy?

410
01:52:24.080 --> 01:52:40.880
>> I don't think nothing written to my knowledge. >> A policy for what? I'm sorry. Because >> policy for handling a Zoom failure. Yeah. >> So, okay. And and but isn't that I thought you said it was in open meeting law that if

411
01:52:40.880 --> 01:52:58.639
it's a hybrid meeting, you can't continue unless there's a quorum. So, do we really need a policy or do we need to be educated on efficacy is >> my concern and and I still have it um is

412
01:52:58.639 --> 01:53:15.119
that people who have something to say about some item on the agenda, >> right, >> will be silenced if the Zoom fails. can >> so we just want it on the agenda though that >> to notify them that if there's doesn't

413
01:53:15.119 --> 01:53:30.400
do we need >> so if you have something important you've got to get your >> but my question is must we do that via a policy policies add bureaucracy and so I'm just trying >> yeah that's why I asked the question I I don't I don't know if we nec necessarily need a policy on that rather

414
01:53:30.400 --> 01:53:46.000
>> we just have to have it on our agenda agenda >> be accountable for making sure it's on the agenda and someone should be communicating this what we are doing to the other boards and committees so they can do the same. >> All right. >> There's a header here. Why can't

415
01:53:46.000 --> 01:54:01.520
everyone just use the same header? >> Change the meeting >> policy to introduce >> change the meeting time, meeting dates and >> and have this one line >> and then have this one line. It becomes an integral part of any time. >> Yeah, you can make that happen, right?

416
01:54:01.520 --> 01:54:17.440
>> I I can make that happen. And I think when it starts to extend to the other boards, >> that's a different story. >> That involves your >> Yeah. So as aons, we we're all leaison. We should be communicating this to the

417
01:54:17.440 --> 01:54:33.679
>> Well, now we know. So yeah, I know the Harvard advisory, they mean person, but they struggle with the zoom sometimes. So >> not a high-tech group. >> No, I didn't want to. I I I think all of the committees do it from time to time,

418
01:54:33.679 --> 01:54:49.760
you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it's always, you know, there's always something going on, but >> Yeah. No, I know. When I when I sit in at the COA sometimes, well, that's during the day. Debbie, come on up and help figure out what's going on.

419
01:54:49.760 --> 01:55:05.920
>> So, all right. All right. So, the header next month or next next time will be >> will include this similar language to what the finance committee puts on there. It's >> fine. Then can we add a date to discuss >> the broader things to judictori? >> Yes,

420
01:55:05.920 --> 01:55:21.840
>> that that was probably going to be added soon because I don't I don't know if you remember Gary Gilbert had presented something to us a few months back and then I I've been I've met with him a few times on it and I've >> we've made some progress. It's

421
01:55:21.840 --> 01:55:39.599
>> due to come before the board soon. >> We can cover all that >> and that can all be discussed. Okay. All right. So, that's there. Do we need to put that on our >> the-do list or agenda item or >> No, that's okay. I If you want to, we can, but

422
01:55:39.599 --> 01:55:55.520
that'll be the next three meetings, I would say. >> Okay, fine. >> All right. All right. We're done with that. >> Okay. >> Leaison update. No, PE structure. >> Structure. >> Excuse me. The structure. Okay. And what's your first time off? Okay. Out of box.

423
01:55:55.520 --> 01:56:15.440
>> This is um the updated Yeah. So, uh we went into this with asking departments to take a look at their fee schedules if they had any proposed changes um to existing fees or adding new fees or things like that

424
01:56:15.440 --> 01:56:34.480
>> um to get them to us so we could discuss it at this meeting, publish it for the month with the intent of enacting things for July 1st. um an excellent goal. However, with many projects, there's many layers. Um we

425
01:56:34.480 --> 01:56:51.760
don't have one single fee schedule in this town. Uh each department kind of has their own fee schedule. Um so this is quickly becoming a larger project of, you know, bring them all into one master schedule.

426
01:56:51.760 --> 01:57:07.360
um >> figuring out what you got, >> figuring out what you have, what you don't have. There's some things, you know, we have fees that aren't uh that are, you know, really nicely well written out. We have some that are not. We have some that are not written at

427
01:57:07.360 --> 01:57:24.400
all. Um so, this is kind of a bigger project that we're going to work on over the summer. Uh but in the short term, we do have some fees that are ready for the public process. Um the board of health

428
01:57:24.400 --> 01:57:39.199
uh well, I guess the first one on here is the building permit fees. >> Uh so currently we have $6 per thousand as our um building permit rate. And then

429
01:57:39.199 --> 01:57:55.199
electrical permit fees have just always been half of that at $3. Uh when we looked at and believe it or not, Manchester by C was the most expensive at one point. We

430
01:57:55.199 --> 01:58:12.000
are now based on 30 something towns that we looked at. We are the lowest uh other than Cheshure at $5. Uh the average

431
01:58:12.000 --> 01:58:30.080
the average rate was $11.7. The high was $15.30. >> Is this building or electrical? >> Building. >> Building. Okay. Um now we we with our budget with the budget

432
01:58:30.080 --> 01:58:47.199
process we approved the an additional position in the in in splitting the in assistant inspectional services and assistant assessor into two different positions and the proposal would be that the assistant to inspectional services would be funded by this fee increase. We

433
01:58:47.199 --> 01:59:04.239
projected that a $2 increase would likely fund the um the position uh that about a dollar equals $30,000 annually on average. Uh however, then looking at, you know, then you take a

434
01:59:04.239 --> 01:59:20.800
look at what our surrounding communities are at and we're significantly below the average. So the proposal here is to bump it to $10 and coinciding with that keeping electrical

435
01:59:20.800 --> 01:59:38.719
half of the building permit fee at $5. >> $10 per thousand is like 1% of the project costly. I think that um I mean if in fact we're the average is 11 most contracts as most

436
01:59:38.719 --> 01:59:55.679
developers are anticipating that kind of a number right >> so it's not it's not culture shock and it's not going to derail any kind of uh project so you know I think $10 is is still being very very uh conservative and generous

437
01:59:55.679 --> 02:00:13.320
>> so this will put us on the average with other towns >> still below Average 11 $11.7. >> These are the communities are just randomly selected a dozen. >> Cheshure is a little weird. >> Yeah.

438
02:00:13.679 --> 02:00:30.400
>> Beverly, Chelsea, Sus, Danver, Canton, Marblehead, North Reading, Swans, Nucket, Lynfield, Georgetown, Oxford, Hamilton, Rockport, Chadam. >> That's Raleigh. >> That's our That's ours. >> Yeah. >> All right. That's a wide range. >> Yeah.

439
02:00:30.400 --> 02:00:44.400
Um, so >> so, so do we want to make it $12? I was going to say, why why wouldn't we want to put it at the average of your analysis? Is there a reason why we wouldn't want to do that? >> Well, you know, the fee really should

440
02:00:44.400 --> 02:01:01.920
fee should be reflective of the market >> and what you need to fund the services, >> right? >> Um, >> so you're good with the 10? you you can cover. >> I'm good with I'm good with the 10 and there's no reason why we couldn't revisit it next year to go up again if

441
02:01:01.920 --> 02:01:16.480
we need if we felt >> the data supported it. >> That's fine with me. >> Uh are we going to hold these numbers for projects that are already in planning? >> Uh one major problem up in the LCD. So I

442
02:01:16.480 --> 02:01:31.520
would that another reason why I would, you know, put this out there publicly for a July 1 implementation date. So anybody that pulled a permit or paid the fee between now and then would get the current rate. Afterwards, they would get

443
02:01:31.520 --> 02:01:47.840
the new rate. Uh as far as the LCD or the uh CST project, I've had conversations with them about our desire to increase the fees. Um, I've drafted an agreement if the select

444
02:01:47.840 --> 02:02:03.760
board is amendable to it to grandfather that project in at the current rate for a year. So, if they build if they pull building a building permit within the upcoming year, they'd be grandfathered

445
02:02:03.760 --> 02:02:19.440
in under the old rate. because it's such a large project and it's not some we weren't doing this to try to like get hundreds of thousands of dollars more from them. >> Um and in a way if they are in agreement with that which I don't see why they

446
02:02:19.440 --> 02:02:35.199
wouldn't kind of >> helps push them along to >> Yeah. They expected to pull for now anyway things just changed a little bit. >> So that would give one year. You're saying >> that was my first >> I'm good with that. I think that's a

447
02:02:35.199 --> 02:02:50.320
good I don't think I'd want to go beyond >> I don't want to do anything that might dissuade them and saying screw we're not going to do this >> I'm not worried about that but we I think we we behav >> bio tech is really really hurt right

448
02:02:50.320 --> 02:03:10.320
>> yeah how what's the revenue for all these fees right now you know what that is offhand about something you look at >> might be able to tell And it's going to you know our

449
02:03:10.320 --> 02:03:26.239
financials probably don't break that out as a individually but just says Fis. >> No we do have in this booklet it gives us revenues by department. Let's see. >> Well this is all building department so

450
02:03:26.239 --> 02:03:57.520
that's that's what I'm asking. Oh, it might be mixed in with other bees >> with assessor. Okay. Permits building 232,000 in 2025, 306,000

451
02:03:57.520 --> 02:04:13.679
in 2024. 217 in 2023. >> Okay. >> Two or 300,000 >> and for all is a thousand,000. >> Yeah. >> Nice chunk of change. Well, thank you.

452
02:04:13.679 --> 02:04:31.400
>> Yeah, that that generates a couple hundred,000. >> Is there a requirement that the fee correspond to the cost of the service >> there? I wouldn't say a requirement, but that's the general, you know, how it should work out. Um,

453
02:04:32.000 --> 02:04:48.239
but we have that's not always the case and you see that in other towns too. There's also keeping up with the market is the other element. So that's why I'm hesitant to like bump it up significantly to the highest that

454
02:04:48.239 --> 02:05:02.960
we're seeing in the market because we don't really have a justification for a need. However, keeping up with the market is a need and we do have about a $60,000 increase in cost of cert in our expenses

455
02:05:02.960 --> 02:05:18.480
by creating the position. >> We estimated about a dollar increase would generate around 30. >> So $2 would cover the person >> would cover it. >> Um would cover it, >> but we'd still be >> you're still below the average

456
02:05:18.480 --> 02:05:34.239
>> significantly below the average at just two. I don't quite understand why we need to keep up with the market but just >> no we just keep need to keep up with our own needs >> we keep up with our own needs the market is just a bell weather >> causes us to take a look at it why are

457
02:05:34.239 --> 02:05:50.000
we so low so we ask the question you know other towns may be trying to generate re revenue from their fees where we're just yeah the services >> we're we're we're trying to balance our budget like everybody else and money is fungeible and it comes in and it doesn't necessarily

458
02:05:50.000 --> 02:06:06.719
This money shouldn't be very funible. >> It's funible. It comes in and some of it covers building and some of it might cover the lights here administrative and all of that sort of thing. >> Well, yeah. It all goes into the general fund. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right.

459
02:06:06.719 --> 02:06:24.320
>> And so I mean you hire somebody, you got to get them a desk. I mean there are costs associated with >> Yeah. So the cost of the physician you said was um >> salary salary is going to be >> fully loaded. I'm asking with the fully

460
02:06:24.320 --> 02:06:45.760
loaded cost of physician E >> if if they take a family health plan you're probably in the 70 $75,000 range maybe 70 closer to 70 >> but I we're not sure that the existing fee was covering the service cost of the

461
02:06:45.760 --> 02:07:01.679
service already were we >> well it was generating $250 to $300,000 Right. >> Um that's your building inspector of a building. >> I mean that's >> apartment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean it's not just labor like

462
02:07:01.679 --> 02:07:25.199
you said it's the cost of running the building that they work out of. It's all that >> is not just FTE cost. So a little bit of everything. That's >> okay. And this is to suggested to go into effect the 1st of uh July.

463
02:07:25.199 --> 02:07:41.239
>> I agree with that. >> What under electrical permit phase, >> if I'm I may not be reading it right, but without a building permit, $50 minimum, no maximum. I mean, how is

464
02:07:41.760 --> 02:07:58.400
>> So, if it's if it doesn't you if you're coming in for a building project, >> new construction >> under new construction or an addition, you know, something like that, it's just going to be based on the building the cost of the project and it's baked into your building permit fee. If you were just doing an electrical job,

465
02:07:58.400 --> 02:08:13.679
>> Yeah. >> then apply the um $50 minimum. >> Yeah. And then it can grow based on the size of your electrical project. >> Maybe this ought to say something about

466
02:08:13.679 --> 02:08:29.599
how the growth is controlled. >> Yeah, because this looks like, oh, I'm just, you know, I need to put in another electrical outlet. Uh, the fee is going to be $1,000. >> Usually, you're talking more like

467
02:08:29.599 --> 02:08:45.199
somebody putting a service in or something like that. That's what I want to do. >> If your if your project if your electrical project is less than $1,000 >> Mhm. >> you're going to get a $50 minimum. >> That's That's fine. It's the maximum that's worrying me. I don't know how

468
02:08:45.199 --> 02:09:01.199
it's calculated. >> I think if it's over a,000, it's calculated at $5 per thousand. >> Right. All Ann is saying is that the verbiage on this page is unclear. It says nothing about something being triggered by the project

469
02:09:01.199 --> 02:09:16.880
cost being $1,000. When it says without building permit, it says nothing about the rate of five per per $5 per thousand. It doesn't say anything on that line. So >> Oh, I see what you're saying.

470
02:09:16.880 --> 02:09:35.280
>> You know what I'm saying? It just says and then Yep. Yep. Yep. I gotcha. Sorry about that. Yep. Then you don't say no maximum. You just say $5 per thousand. >> Right. >> With a with a $50 minimum. That's it.

471
02:09:35.280 --> 02:09:58.560
Right. Okay. >> Right. >> $50 minimum. No one's pulling permit anyway. I think there's there's a deeper dive on the electrical permit fees that we could look at. Um,

472
02:09:58.560 --> 02:10:15.760
you know, usually the electrical work is not 50% of the cost of your building project. But that's kind of how we apply the fee. >> I mean P's might be >> there. You know, some towns

473
02:10:15.760 --> 02:10:32.480
break it out per outlet per per light per you know. >> It's very >> we don't need that. >> We don't need to be doing that. >> So that's building permits. Then um the next one is Board of Health. Board of

474
02:10:32.480 --> 02:10:47.599
Health looked at their fees. They put together some proposals here. Uh the process is that they notify the select board of their proposals and then the select board essentially

475
02:10:47.599 --> 02:11:04.639
gives them the okay and then they host their own public hearing. >> Is there any logic to this? Why some things didn't go up at all and other things went up a lot? It came I guess I guess they they talked about it

476
02:11:04.639 --> 02:11:20.079
at their last board of health meeting which I didn't >> and I I didn't either. >> So I'll have to go I'll have to take a look at that. >> Oh. >> So was there some sort of analysis just like you did with the the building or or what other towns doing? I mean this kind of suggests that

477
02:11:20.079 --> 02:11:38.320
>> because it's very specifically targeted, >> right? And to your point, is it the question is is it covering the cost of the service? >> So I I got to look at see what they talked about during the meeting.

478
02:11:38.320 --> 02:11:57.520
>> Um I think those meetings are recorded. They're not being posted. >> Yes. >> If you could lean on them to posted, I will catch up. >> Uh yeah, I I agree. They should be posted especi if they're being reported they should be postal. >> I think we just discussed that didn't we?

479
02:11:57.520 --> 02:12:14.719
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That was a part I was paying attention. >> That was an example. That was the example. >> Uh the next is trash bag. So as you all know our trash contract costs are going to cost us. Um we feel that

480
02:12:14.719 --> 02:12:33.280
some of that cost should be should trickle down to the cost of the bags. The bags haven't changed in seven years. The fees have not changed in seven years. Um, >> so we'll buy a case now. >> Uh, however, applying the

481
02:12:33.280 --> 02:12:50.960
percentage increase of the contract to the fee uh is a little bit more. You know, we we looked at that. So, Glosser, you know, we we charge $11 for

482
02:12:50.960 --> 02:13:07.040
a small uh small bag roll of five and $16.50 for a large roll of five. Loster is at 10 and 20. Essex is at 1250 and 2375.

483
02:13:07.040 --> 02:13:23.280
Balden's at 1625 and $25. And NICT is at 1250 and 2250. So we are a little bit low um in some of those scenarios and these are Gloucester

484
02:13:23.280 --> 02:13:38.719
is currently going through the same process that we are with their contract expiring. So expect you know these numbers to change for them if that unless they're going to automated collection and eliminating the bags. Um,

485
02:13:38.719 --> 02:13:56.079
so we're seeing uh that some of these some of the surrounding towns have higher prices. Um, our sanitation budget increase, that's 280,000, about a 46% increase. If we were to apply that 46% increase to

486
02:13:56.079 --> 02:14:13.920
the bag fees, we'd be going from $11 to6 for the small bags. and we'd be going from650 to 2409 for the large bass. The proposal we have here is $15 for the small and

487
02:14:13.920 --> 02:14:31.599
$20 for the large. If you take the average rolls sold two-year average um and apply the proposed fee increase, the total projected revenue is that 125100

488
02:14:31.599 --> 02:14:47.119
for the small bags, 3008 $300,800 for the large bags. You compare that to our current revenue and in total it would bring in $86,000

489
02:14:47.119 --> 02:15:04.480
more based on those averages which would cover about uh you know for we have a $280,000 increase that would cover 86,000 of it. think important >> based on what's going on with our

490
02:15:04.480 --> 02:15:21.199
neighbors become really educating uh the people now >> as to what's going on. I had an opportunity to speak to uh Matt St. Helia from uh he's the counselor from Duby Farms >> and he was taught in the public.

491
02:15:21.199 --> 02:15:37.440
>> Now everyone feels that everything all the price increases were slid under cover of darkness >> and uh I mentioned that that's not going to be our plan. I think that we start talking now about because everyone it's it's a hot topic. Everyone's going to

492
02:15:37.440 --> 02:15:52.079
know about trash right now. Everyone's talking about trash. I think it's not. We we address it sooner rather than later. Prepare people for So this is based on the fact that we just at this point it's just we're in bags. We're going to stay in bags until

493
02:15:52.079 --> 02:16:06.480
things change and that's a separate discussion but that'll be coming. >> Right. >> So >> so really this really this is temporary anyway. >> Yeah it's temporary and and people also

494
02:16:06.480 --> 02:16:22.480
have a lot of control over their trash. So it's it's if they don't want to pay as much they can reduce their trash cons, you know. >> So our our service has gone up like from half a million to 750 or something like that. Is that kind of what where the

495
02:16:22.480 --> 02:16:38.399
where the increase your increase is 280 and that's 46%. So contract right now is 500 and that's what's our sanitation budget is in the $800,000 range up 660. Yeah. >> Yeah.

496
02:16:38.399 --> 02:16:54.240
>> Yep. It says, well, I say I'm just rounding it off. 5750, but that's that's where we're at. It'll be further negotiated when we figure out how all of this >> Yeah, we're we're we finally got a proposed contract from Republic. Yes.

497
02:16:54.240 --> 02:17:08.639
>> On Friday. >> Um there's some missing information that I still want to see. Uh, a a very important part of it for me is I want I want to see their union contract that

498
02:17:08.639 --> 02:17:26.800
they negotiated recently. Uh, and to understand if that sympathy strike language is included in it because we said in July and August of last year, if that if that's included in their next contract, we'd be hesitant to sign up

499
02:17:26.800 --> 02:17:43.439
another deal. Um, they haven't sent that to us yet. >> So, needs there. >> Uh, we have calls out to Cassella. Uh, we have calls out to Mel as well. >> Capital base.

500
02:17:43.439 --> 02:18:01.040
>> U capital is Capital just bid in Beverly and they were extremely high. >> Okay. There's another local company besides >> Nell, I think. Okay. >> He'll

501
02:18:01.040 --> 02:18:17.679
act away from uh municipal. >> Yeah. >> They'll still do parts, you know, if you wanted to rent a dumpster or something. But um yeah, so we we have a discussion to have

502
02:18:17.679 --> 02:18:35.200
uh this summer. Um, we're not going to implement automated uh uniform carts or automated collection immediately. That will come at a cost to the town. Uh, the cost of the services is going

503
02:18:35.200 --> 02:18:51.280
up. >> My question is it just went up from 600 to 850 or whatever and when you go automated it's going up again. >> Uh, it we basically it won't go up as much. still gonna go. >> I know. I mean, they're saving on a guy

504
02:18:51.280 --> 02:19:08.160
and >> Yeah, but it's What's a polite way to put this? >> They get you either way. >> I know. >> Because then they pass on the cost of buying a truck that can do automated collection or if they have to rent a

505
02:19:08.160 --> 02:19:25.280
truck, they pass on that cost. It, you know, it's >> the tipping fees keep going up. >> Yeah. Um, so right now it's like I want to say 11 or I want to say it's like $11,000

506
02:19:25.280 --> 02:19:41.760
more per month without automated collection. So that does add up. I got to talk to I got to figure out what that true number is. That does that include what we might want to charge residents per barrel

507
02:19:41.760 --> 02:19:59.200
or do we still have to figure out that fee structure? >> We have to figure out that fee structure. >> The places I know that have it, they it's not just paid for by taxes. You pay for a barrel twice a year like you do your water and sewer. You know, you get a bill and and you pay for a barrel of

508
02:19:59.200 --> 02:20:14.000
barrel. >> The only problem is that the only problem with that is how do you >> how do you how do you figure usage? Yeah. >> Well, two barrels. Two barrels is >> by barrels. You they they give you a barrel and if you want another barrel, you're going to pay for that second

509
02:20:14.000 --> 02:20:29.600
barrel quarterly or >> and they pick up certified barrels. So, they know it's their barrels and you can put out as many as you're getting builds for two whether you're only >> right. Well, that's my point. If you're getting build even if you put one out, you're on vacation week. >> Even if you've only put out one a month.

510
02:20:29.600 --> 02:20:44.640
Uh that >> Well, I'm with you. Yeah. I mean the minimum is one per pickups >> and I don't do one a month. >> Well, those of us who don't put out a lot of trash are subsidizing the people who do >> the

511
02:20:44.640 --> 02:21:01.840
you're still subsidizing even at that point. >> The way I look at it is all residents are currently purchasing bags, right? If they're putting trash out on the herb for collection. >> If they're putting trash out on the curb. >> Yeah. Um some are b are putting

512
02:21:01.840 --> 02:21:17.359
two bags out every week. Some are putting one bag out every week. Some are putting one bag out every month. So, we kind of looked at what's the, you know, what's the likely average of usage and what's that cost? If you were doing one

513
02:21:17.359 --> 02:21:33.040
bag every other week, you're you're spending hundred $120 on bags a year. So if our fee if we absorb this increased cost in part with fees and in part with

514
02:21:33.040 --> 02:21:48.640
the general fund, if we had a fee that was somewhere around that hundred $125 amount, um it would be a a shift rather than an increase. You know, you're not buying

515
02:21:48.640 --> 02:22:04.080
bags anymore, but >> you're getting a barrel. Um, so try to kind of look at it. That's that's kind of the >> How does that work? How does that work for people that rent? >> So if you're in Well, it depends. If you're rent,

516
02:22:04.080 --> 02:22:19.600
>> it would be charged to the property owner through the >> It's like water and sewer. I bought a larger rental places. >> Yeah. Private trash had private private trash, >> right? like a three family who paying for the barrels

517
02:22:19.600 --> 02:22:34.800
>> who would go to the property owner, whoever we send the utility bill to, >> you know, you it would be part of your water sewer bill, >> uh, which I believe we send to the property owner and then they filter down that cost to their renters.

518
02:22:34.800 --> 02:22:49.520
>> Very, they vary it. Yeah. >> Yeah. He uh for instance, I know that one school he advised to Tom that he was not going to be that he would be using all town pickup. Right. >> So he was going to use barrels as

519
02:22:49.520 --> 02:23:05.680
opposed to supplying a dumpster for his tenants. >> Oh, >> right. So we would we have record of how many units are on those properties. We would charge them per unit a per unit. You know that fee times the amount of units.

520
02:23:05.680 --> 02:23:20.560
>> Yeah, I understand that. I'm just thinking, you know, you got different units, you got different families, one has one. You know, it's >> the bag the bags is the only true way to get to a

521
02:23:20.560 --> 02:23:36.160
>> usage >> right that's why >> unfortunately >> my concern is that we are I mean we're forced to get away with it. I understand that. But how do we >> I guess no real way to make it fair. But

522
02:23:36.160 --> 02:23:52.319
>> no people what see a lot more you said at Dunkin Donuts every morning. There's somebody always stops and goes to the It's now the MBTA. It's the MBTA's barrel. So I don't care. But there's always cars pulling up there. No tracks in there. >> Oh yeah. I mean somebody else's barrels. They might not walk all the way down

523
02:23:52.319 --> 02:24:07.840
there. They'll be putting it in their neighbors. >> But I mean it's like I said point. >> Yeah. Um, yeah. So, they're going to buy all >> the way we did it in the hunt was if you had private a private trash hauler, you

524
02:24:07.840 --> 02:24:22.800
would get an abatement on the fee to a percentage because you're still contri, you know, the town's still paying for picking up trash at the public parks and at the beaches and that's, you know, contributing to the value of your

525
02:24:22.800 --> 02:24:39.760
property. So whatever we would take like the total sanitation budget, figure out what percentage of that is going is the cost of curbside collection and apply that towards the abatement if you provide us a copy of your contract with

526
02:24:39.760 --> 02:24:56.399
a private hauler. Can we just uh you we discussed this a while ago said black earth had been interested in uh potentially collection but they then the problem was that what are you going to do with it once they pick it up and bring it to the

527
02:24:56.399 --> 02:25:11.680
uh but you just said hilts it would just uh do cottage. Could we have two separate contracts? Have Hills pull the uh out of the transfer station and

528
02:25:11.680 --> 02:25:27.439
>> I to me it it's possible, but >> I don't know if it's I don't know if it's I don't know if Black Earth would be I because they're not as big. Maybe their costs would be less. >> Maybe they'd be willing to pick up with bags as opposed to barrels. My point is

529
02:25:27.439 --> 02:25:44.240
rather than using the barrels in the one single thing if I think the town would be very happy to continue to pay for bags if we could find someone who's >> find somewhere to put them or someone to take >> it's the recycling side that's the issue. Well, that was recycling

530
02:25:44.240 --> 02:25:58.880
dumpsters, you know. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I knew there was something. I just thought that >> if we can somehow stay with bags, >> I think that's >> So, what that's a good question though. What will happen with the transfer station if we go to this barrel situation?

531
02:25:58.880 --> 02:26:16.479
>> So, you could you could still allow for bags, you know, at the transfer station and then that that compact dumpster gets picked up by Republic or whatever, >> Yeah. November, >> you could use the bags as a way to monitor, you know.

532
02:26:16.479 --> 02:26:33.280
>> So, you would need bags just for the transfer station >> or you could you you don't have to do that and you can just require and be strict on, you know, Manchester resident sticker in

533
02:26:33.280 --> 02:26:48.640
order to use the transfer station. But then you got people you you know with a different barrel so they're not really paying like you could have someone put out a barrel now they take a different barrel to the transfer station.

534
02:26:48.640 --> 02:27:04.800
>> Right. So maybe that that supports the continuing the use of bags there because now you're collecting them through that. They're not paying for curbside collection convenience >> that they're deposit. Can you can you can it can you opt out? Right. This is

535
02:27:04.800 --> 02:27:20.319
that that's what I'm wondering because I'm looking at Ann and I'm looking at myself. Well, I'm not looking at Ann necessarily now, but >> yourself is tricky. But, you know, maybe I look I do the math and say I, you know, I only have a bag a month. I'll go to the transfer

536
02:27:20.319 --> 02:27:36.240
station because if you bill me, you're billing me based upon a weekly pickup and I am nowhere near that except on July before I kids. >> I used to throw a bag of trash, bring it to the dumpster at work. I bet you a lot of people do that. Yeah.

537
02:27:36.240 --> 02:27:51.600
>> Yeah. I mean, or you don't if you don't do a fee and you do absorb it completely within the general fund, then I'm sure there's less likely of that reaction, right? So, these are a lot of different topics we're going to have to

538
02:27:51.600 --> 02:28:08.160
>> look at. The fee structure also look at lessons learned for for towns that don't charge a barrel. >> Sure, they've got experience. um as the amount of trash that is produced by the town has that gone up, right? Because people don't care anymore, right? Because that will

539
02:28:08.160 --> 02:28:24.160
drive up overall cost, >> right? So that would be the thing I would I would look at >> uh driving force is the size of the >> right >> barrel, >> right? We talked about you know >> and limiting basically you're not you

540
02:28:24.160 --> 02:28:38.960
can't they will not collect anything that's not in the barrel, >> right? But biggest driving force. >> We talked about, you know, putting more emphasis on driving people towards composting, right? That's the ultimate. >> Yeah. >> We also have to look at where the barrels go because is

541
02:28:38.960 --> 02:28:54.640
>> on street parking on days of uh trash collection >> because those trucks have to be able to get right there. >> They get up to the uh you know on Central Street, they're not going to be able to pick up. >> Yeah. They'll they'll they'll figure that out. >> I mean, that's there has to be some kind of survey they're going to happen to.

542
02:28:54.640 --> 02:29:10.080
the the uniform barrels provide a lot of benefits in the >> in the cleanliness of the town on trash collection days. Um, which is beneficial, you know, environmentally for the for wildlife and

543
02:29:10.080 --> 02:29:25.680
things of that nature. Um, >> except for the crows who are eating the stuff that they're stealing out of the bags. >> That's why I'm saying the barrel benefit. >> Yeah. I mean, you're hurting crows. >> The barrel. Yeah. There's the crowd. >> Yeah,

544
02:29:25.680 --> 02:29:42.240
>> actually they're probably seed also. >> They are seed. All right. Well, anyway, >> what what happens? >> So, this is a trash end of it. What happens with the recycling end of it? Is there going to be a uniform barrel for that, too? >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Oh, so they're two different different

545
02:29:42.240 --> 02:29:58.640
barrels. Not two barrels, but two different Salem. I know the blue and black, >> right? >> Yeah. And I mean, some towns have two differentiz trash barrels. For people who use less trash, you can get a smaller barrel and and as well as the normal size one. >> It all depends on what they

546
02:29:58.640 --> 02:30:13.760
>> All right. I think we've >> It was funny though when we went through to the Cinea and talked about the trash fees a couple years ago when trash cost skyrocketed because China stopped taking

547
02:30:13.760 --> 02:30:29.840
>> our contaminated recycling. Yeah. And it was surprising the public meeting of what people cared about. And there was a significant amount of people who showed up that said, "I don't I

548
02:30:29.840 --> 02:30:46.479
don't care what you charge me. Do not limit how much trash I >> Yeah. >> Then there were people who said, I can't handle the size of that barrel, >> or I don't have space to store that barrel, or I, you know, I shouldn't have to pay so much because I don't use it as much." Right. >> It is the >> every possible story

549
02:30:46.479 --> 02:31:02.160
>> every possible it's very it's basically impossible to meet everybody's individual need. >> Um I think the way that you can help is if you reduce the cost impact to the

550
02:31:02.160 --> 02:31:17.040
resident is the best way you can keep people happy. >> Yeah. So yeah, as long as we've got the free composting contract with Earth that people that should incentivize people to do more.

551
02:31:17.040 --> 02:31:33.760
>> All right. Uh enough. Fred, do do we So these permits, do we need to vote on this or are these just going into effect or what? >> If if you are good, I'll publish them uh on the website for the month and then our first meeting in July, we'll vote to

552
02:31:33.760 --> 02:31:51.520
put them in place. >> I'm good. Yeah, >> me too. >> I I'm good with the building and electrical and demolition is fine. I'm less thrilled with the board of health.

553
02:31:51.520 --> 02:32:08.720
>> Well, for those for the board of health ones, they have a public they do their own public hearing process. >> Okay. Yeah. I don't know. We have control over that. So, >> so the board health is justformational for us.

554
02:32:08.720 --> 02:32:24.000
>> That's the way it's gone. I mean, to me, I think that as an appointed board and a and a a town issued fee, I would think that it would need to be approved by the select board, but the in the past the way that it's been done is

555
02:32:24.000 --> 02:32:38.880
um when it was an elected board, they kind of did it completely on their own. Once it came to become an appointed board, they notified the select board of a proposed change. Select board said, "Okay, move forward with your process." They'd have a public hearing and then

556
02:32:38.880 --> 02:32:58.720
they would enact a change. >> So So Ann, what what is your concern? >> Um, one of the fees goes up by a factor of >> three. >> No. Um, three would be 18. >> Yeah. back four.

557
02:32:58.720 --> 02:33:14.880
>> I was a history major. All right. >> 9:00 math is limited. Math capabilities are limited. >> Yes. >> Um and something else is a brand new fee. >> Um >> so you're looking for some rationale as to the

558
02:33:14.880 --> 02:33:29.040
>> Yeah. >> Why these changes? >> Why why so much? >> Why not other changes? >> Yeah. Well, I have no problem at all of requiring the board of health to come to us for these uh as you say, they're an

559
02:33:29.040 --> 02:33:44.399
appointed board and I think that there has to be some accountability the first step. I mean just a simple explanation of what they came up with. That's that's a little >> so ask them for to give us that.

560
02:33:44.399 --> 02:34:00.080
>> Yeah. >> And that was and then until they provide that to us and we can have a discussion. Don't schedule a public hearing on their proposal. >> Okay. >> On these fees or just everything

561
02:34:00.080 --> 02:34:25.600
>> just the board help. Everything else is good. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. Okay. Nextison updates. What's going on, Jeff? >> Uh, I wasn't able to see the last

562
02:34:25.600 --> 02:34:43.040
planning board meeting. Um, the HAC hasn't met. I I don't know if they're going to meet this month or not, but uh we did have a graduation last Thursday at Essex Tech, graduated almost

563
02:34:43.040 --> 02:34:59.600
500 kids out of there. >> One of those are one. >> Uh Lillian Johnson graduated from the uh biotechnology program. So, >> rest of heart and uh yeah, it was as

564
02:34:59.600 --> 02:35:15.680
always they they know how to run it up there with all those kids, but they get it done. >> Actually was quite quite >> incredible that they get it all done. >> Yeah, that's about all I got. >> Okay. >> All right.

565
02:35:15.680 --> 02:35:32.319
>> Well, I think we were all at the uh last pox and rough meeting, which was basically just a bath house. So, that that's what we saw there. Uh, and uh, it was a nice little crowd that showed up. >> It was good. Good amount of people.

566
02:35:32.319 --> 02:35:49.040
>> Uh, I didn't make the ZBA meeting this month. So, that's >> nothing new to report. >> The finance committee didn't meet. I slept through the

567
02:35:49.040 --> 02:36:05.760
board of health meeting. I just I didn't put it on my calendar and I just plain forgot. Um and the schools are just mostly focused on on the Essex school building project. Um

568
02:36:05.760 --> 02:36:22.600
and and they're there's no school department uh budgetary information. They're so basically

569
02:36:25.200 --> 02:36:45.200
the the school building program that you know we all know what the numbers looking like and uh >> I mean they've chosen they've chosen a single model they it's it's a sensible

570
02:36:45.200 --> 02:37:01.280
program for building it where they take down one part, all of the kids go into the other part and then they build the new part and split back. So, it's >> we're not having having to rent a lot of mobile mobile classrooms which are

571
02:37:01.280 --> 02:37:20.960
expensive and don't get reimbured. >> Okay, >> Kathy. >> Uh just a couple things. the downtown improvement committee met. Um there's a lot of discussion on the new uh pamphlets that are being um handed out

572
02:37:20.960 --> 02:37:37.280
now at the our voting locations um to uh give information to people who come to us by boat uh on what's available in the downtown for restaurants, public bathrooms, all all that stuff. a nice pamphlet uh page

573
02:37:37.280 --> 02:37:53.520
journey uh um really spearheaded that effort and it came out really nice. Um also some new um retail uh businesses coming into town. We we've got, you know, our new restaurant, Nikki's Place, of course, we approved

574
02:37:53.520 --> 02:38:09.120
that at the last meeting. Um in the Capean Savings building, there's a chiropractor. There is there will be a nail salon. Um I met that woman yesterday. >> Oh, good. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. And then uh street.

575
02:38:09.120 --> 02:38:26.720
>> Yep. And so looks like uh something will be happening with Boobird. You may have more information on that than I do. You know, they sold the building and >> my knowledge. Everything's there's nothing going on there. >> Nothing going on there right now, but u we'll just wait and see. Um and uh four

576
02:38:26.720 --> 02:38:42.479
beach will be used as office space. What was the the four office space? >> That was Paul Brown's office. And it's there's a member of the Brown family, I believe, that will be using this office space and not retail. >> Just to jump on that, apparently uh there's a lot of rumors back and forth,

577
02:38:42.479 --> 02:38:59.200
but I think the coffee shop still moving into Cafe Nero was just taking >> Yeah, I'm hearing Cafe Nero is still moving in that that was discussed. They were just waiting for the construction to be done because they didn't want people sitting around having a cup of coffee and all construction was being done. >> They're all blueboard and plastered

578
02:38:59.200 --> 02:39:15.359
uh in the units upstairs. the last I heard and it just like he says it just takes forever. >> Yeah, >> that's construction though, >> right? And um we I did touch base with Tony on making sure we have a public bathroom program. I've seen the signs at

579
02:39:15.359 --> 02:39:30.960
uh uh in town hall here. I haven't seen the one at Bravo yet. I presume it's there, but that's that's our publicly accessible bathrooms for the summer summer months. Duncan has decided they don't want to do that for us anymore and so that no longer an option. >> There was there was some vandalism. Yeah.

580
02:39:30.960 --> 02:39:48.080
>> Oh, is that what it was? >> Well, it was never intended to be a year a year-long contract, so I I'm not quite sure how that happened, but it was only intended for the summer months. >> Masses changed. I knew the code and they changed the code, too. >> You ever go to the bathroom? $5.

581
02:39:48.080 --> 02:40:03.840
>> Well, anyway, >> but they got Yeah, it was it was a year contract and they got a year break on the water. >> Yeah. For the entire Wasn't supposed to be for a year. It was supposed to be just >> when I saw that I thought I don't know how that happened but whatever. So that's all water under the bridge and um

582
02:40:03.840 --> 02:40:20.720
>> been >> the product of the negotiation. >> Yeah. Yeah. Might have said >> we want we want it for the whole year. We're going to do this >> and we should have said don't need it for the whole year. Thank you. Go away. >> But whatever that didn't happen. So um a

583
02:40:20.720 --> 02:40:37.359
bike and ped. There was a big kids bike event in Masano. um >> Sunday. >> Sunday. Yeah. So, that was very well attended. And uh >> go going back to the bathrooms. Um, if you know that the bathrooms are in

584
02:40:37.359 --> 02:40:53.600
town hall and you know that you can get to the bathrooms even if town even if it's a Friday or say after 6 um then the sign is really good but you have to walk all the way up to the maybe we could have a sign on the street that says

585
02:40:53.600 --> 02:41:10.720
public bathroom. >> It's way of finding >> one of our fancy signs. >> That's way finding we ran out of money. Yeah, that's >> noticed an improvement in some of the signs or more signs than were originally planned. So, I know, you know, the DPW or whomever is putting up more signs

586
02:41:10.720 --> 02:41:27.680
than were originally approved. So, they're taking the logo, the standard, and they are there's other signs out there. >> Are those pamphlets printed already? >> Um, yes, but they can be paper. Wouldn't

587
02:41:27.680 --> 02:41:44.000
we have to print more? I'm not sure if they used a design on that. Did they? >> What's that? >> Well, I was just saying bathroom deal >> having the town hall like a public bathroom labeled at the town hall on those pamphlets. >> Maps Hawaiian. >> Yeah. So, the um commerce

588
02:41:44.000 --> 02:42:00.800
has their interactive map. Um >> I thought the the the items that were printed out, the pamphlets, they had the QR code. Um, but I can't remember if the bathrooms were specifically mentioned on the pamphlet or just after you access the QR code, they were mentioned there

589
02:42:00.800 --> 02:42:15.840
>> easily addit. >> Yes. Yes. >> Whatever the links to. >> Yeah. So, anyway, that's that's it for uh the facil facilities hasn't had another meeting yet. So, >> no. >> Okay. For me, it's quiet. Library and

590
02:42:15.840 --> 02:42:31.920
historic district commission did not meet. COA did not meet. One of their members died when there was a funeral this morning. >> So, they went to that. >> You want to serve coffee? >> Uh, well, I wasn't there. I couldn't

591
02:42:31.920 --> 02:42:49.520
make it. But, um, in fact, it's the first one. I'm kind of surprised it's the first one that the cadra of 30 people. This is the first one in the last year or so. And BPW still says they have everything

592
02:42:49.520 --> 02:43:07.920
under control. >> This is two meetings in a row. So >> take them at the word. >> Okay. >> Um consent agenda. >> Yes. I move that we uh approve the

593
02:43:07.920 --> 02:43:24.960
consent agenda. >> Second. >> Any further discussion or any discussion? Vote. Yes. >> Yes. >> Don says yes. >> Yes. >> Kathy says yes. Good.

594
02:43:24.960 --> 02:43:42.080
>> Um, you're up. >> Um, singing beach bath house was uh meeting was mentioned. Unfortunately, I couldn't attend, but I hear many of you are there and it was productive meeting. Um, today

595
02:43:42.080 --> 02:43:58.720
was day one of the Ocean Street uh, Sheret and we had a great attendance. I, you know, I was expecting maybe 10 and we ended up being 30 to 40 people. >> Um,

596
02:43:58.720 --> 02:44:14.319
>> when is the public forum on this? >> So, tomorrow, tomorrow night is the Today was the walkound. Tomorrow night is the uh workshop like pinup um exercise where we take a lot of the

597
02:44:14.319 --> 02:44:34.520
ideas and the commentary that was heard today and prioritize them tomorrow. Uh and then we'll do another meeting in like July when the final report is put together. Um,

598
02:44:34.560 --> 02:44:49.520
>> didn't really hear many surprises at today's walkound. I >> No, >> it was good. It was >> It was good. >> Um, a lot of good commentary. It wasn't >> uh productive.

599
02:44:49.520 --> 02:45:05.200
Um, senior center obviously is uh the next is one of the next um you know facility type study projects that we'll be working on and as I mentioned before the harbor master office. Uh we've

600
02:45:05.200 --> 02:45:21.680
reached out to Weston Samson to see what it would take to get them to help us prepare for the SEC and big grants that are later in the summer. What are the what is the timeline on those grants? >> I think August.

601
02:45:21.680 --> 02:45:36.479
>> August. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh mentioned cargo demo and the the last finance committee meeting we talked about the um capital plan which I want

602
02:45:36.479 --> 02:45:52.800
to bring to the board uh once we start once we make a couple more improvements to it. But um Andrea, Chuck, Nate, and I went through a lot of the previous capital plan documents that have been produced and

603
02:45:52.800 --> 02:46:09.359
presented going back to 2019. And um it's kind of clear that what I think some people thought was the capital plan, you know, was really kind of a summary version of that. So, we

604
02:46:09.359 --> 02:46:26.479
approached it differently and I got some pretty good feedback from the finance committee where it's more of a capital book that starts with a list of all the capital items. Um, then and their cost, their 25-year cost, then breaks that

605
02:46:26.479 --> 02:46:44.720
down by category, then breaks that down into the outy years of when you plan on spending money towards those capital items. then organizes that in chronological order. And then we talked about adding some agendas to that book

606
02:46:44.720 --> 02:47:00.640
of a breakout of the fleet schedule of other feasibility plans, you know, that are up and coming. Um, got some pretty good commentary. You Kathy, you were there and you were there too. you got in

607
02:47:00.640 --> 02:47:18.960
there at I think we had already started but for the most of it you were there and >> I was pleased with >> the response from the finance committee and so I'd like to bring that to the select board too and also the facility planning committee

608
02:47:18.960 --> 02:47:37.359
um and then we'll be working on this fee project uh over the upcoming months uh and then shortly thereafter we I really want to get into and we'll talk a little bit about this at our um retreat meeting

609
02:47:37.359 --> 02:47:55.840
which we need to schedule by the way um >> summer projects that have kind of been on the list for a few months now we were waiting till after we got done with town meeting was the fee schedule um water sewer abatements cemetery policy tree

610
02:47:55.840 --> 02:48:10.800
policy you're you're looking at that so couple those you know those there's me have many lay each of those have many many layers to them of uh of work to do but

611
02:48:10.800 --> 02:48:27.920
I was out the last week um we are jumping right back into union contract negotiations uh had some conversations with Maya again about health insurance and the high deductible plan you know

612
02:48:27.920 --> 02:48:44.760
hearing back from the employees, you know, what some of their questions are and how that plan would work and kind of going back and forth between them and Maya and getting those answers. So, uh hopefully we continue to make progress there.

613
02:48:46.080 --> 02:49:04.080
>> Um I'll stop there. >> Great. Thanks for the update. You're for a week but didn't miss a beat. Hopefully you guys relaxed. >> All right. Um, we do have to schedule this strategic planning session

614
02:49:04.080 --> 02:49:19.120
>> and uh maybe this is something we should all send some times that are good for uh to Debbie. I was looking at the last week of June. >> Are you looking at availability of the

615
02:49:19.120 --> 02:49:34.800
>> uh we haven't I I haven't looked at that yet. I thought >> um the charter house is pretty much available. >> If it's during the week, the charter house is pretty much available any time though. >> Well, I'm looking at like say the week

616
02:49:34.800 --> 02:49:55.200
of the 22nd, >> the week of the >> June 22nd. >> 22ndish. That's >> the Monday. Maybe if you can send a note. >> I presume we're talking evenings, correct?

617
02:49:55.200 --> 02:50:10.720
>> Yeah. Or Yeah. Afternoon to evening. >> Uh what's what's the cut off for you guys? Like 4:30. >> Can you make 4:30? 5. >> 4:30. >> 5 is good. 4:30 is close. >> I can make it up. >> It's not doing, you know, I don't want

618
02:50:10.720 --> 02:50:26.560
to miss music in the park on the 23rd. So, >> okay. All right. What about just I mean normally we'd meet on a Monday. So could we just do the Monday the June 22nd if you're looking at that week?

619
02:50:26.560 --> 02:50:41.520
Um Wednesday and Thursday I cannot do Wednesdays and Thursdays before six o'clock. >> Okay. Yeah. Mon Monday because that's a kind of an open >> planning. I I agree. Generally our Mondays at this time day are

620
02:50:41.520 --> 02:50:58.319
>> flexible. We want to shoot for that. >> So, you're saying the 22nd? >> 22nd. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's open now, so might as well fill it. >> Okay, that's good. 5:00.

621
02:50:58.319 --> 02:51:19.120
Can you Tony will make arrangements with um the lady across the hall? >> Good. Um, >> and then if if you can just send me, you know, if there's anything in particular

622
02:51:19.120 --> 02:51:34.800
that format or things you want to cover during that meeting, send it to me and I'll organize it. >> I mean, we may want to start with what we shared at the last meeting. >> Yeah, I think we need to look at that

623
02:51:34.800 --> 02:51:48.880
summary. >> That summary. >> See? All right. Did we do what we thought we going to do? I don't know. Right. What did what did we get done that we thought we were going to do? Always a good place to look to start.

624
02:51:48.880 --> 02:52:05.680
>> Okay. We can perhaps chat a little bit more about that um at the next preparations for that at our next uh next meeting two weeks from now. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Um

625
02:52:05.680 --> 02:52:21.279
and July 4th, we might as well think about that now. was around July 4th. >> I'll be here. >> I buy >> Sometimes you're here. >> Yeah, you'll buy candy. Sometimes you're here. >> My granddaughter's birthday since I become a grandmother. So, I'm at the

626
02:52:21.279 --> 02:52:37.600
mercy of whatever my daughter tell she I go where she tells me to go >> that day. >> Okay. >> But, um, I do buy the candy. So, if you need 30 pounds of >> I need 30 pound >> 30 pounds of the candy, I can I can get that. >> This I was just looking at candy. My my

627
02:52:37.600 --> 02:52:54.640
daughter who has four-year-old twins was just wondering what the candy was. Not that her twins had opinions about it, but I guess they did last year. >> Same stuff. Just let >> I would go with the same because it's a price performer to be honest. >> Price performer and it doesn't >> by a lot. >> Can we put the brakes on the golf cart

628
02:52:54.640 --> 02:53:09.680
this year? Really? >> You got your son takes off on us. >> Oh, is that right? Yeah. >> Oh my god, you look up. >> Well, we're having a discussion. the the baton might get shifted to my either my daughter or my son-in-law because the twins are now four

629
02:53:09.680 --> 02:53:27.520
and so they might be the ones that are involved. Before it was my son. >> I don't care who drives it. Just don't take our lives. >> Just leave us. >> Yeah. Then we got to run up and try to get more flags. I don't want to spill my drink when I'm running after.

630
02:53:27.520 --> 02:53:44.560
>> Okay. We'll see. We'll see how that works. And the fireworks on the third. >> Yes, that's right. I will not be there for the fireworks. >> All right. >> I won't get flags. >> Uh yeah. Um maybe I'll get in touch with you. We we had a few left over, but that

631
02:53:44.560 --> 02:53:59.279
was good. >> Because kind of toward the end, >> you usually run out sometime. >> Well, we were off. >> No, we we ran out because my my son took off with the cart and we couldn't reload because he was at the end of the parade. >> Yeah. He was already at the end point

632
02:53:59.279 --> 02:54:14.640
400 yards ahead of us. >> Yeah. >> At least >> at the end. >> Well, Yas is being is being kind. >> Yeah. So, it was a >> it was like a problem. >> I missed a doozy last year. So, >> that was he ran over Alan Kirka and then

633
02:54:14.640 --> 02:54:30.160
it was a Can can you arrange Did you arrange for the golf cart or did >> I I could call uh but >> I'm trying to remember who did that last year. I've done it. I can I can call and get >> is county. >> Yeah.

634
02:54:30.160 --> 02:54:46.080
>> Yeah. Got to get a golf. Let me use a new Don't we get Didn't the police get a new little buggy? >> They did. >> Oh, that would be fancy. >> Anyway, yeah. So, on the flags, what did you get last year? Do you remember? >> I don't remember, but I have it written

635
02:54:46.080 --> 02:55:00.160
down someplace. >> All right, that's good. I mean, that's that was a a good number. I think I maybe have a hundred left over. Okay, >> so that's that, you know. And you were we were up in like 1,500 2,000. I think >> I think we're 1500, but >> Okay, so that's 2,000. I'll get 2. >> That's good. All right.

636
02:55:00.160 --> 02:55:19.200
>> I may I don't know what size we got. >> Smallest they make it. Well, I don't know. >> You want to I have them in my basement. I can tell you what they are. >> I have them. I I ordered them through Amazon so I can find it. >> Okay.

637
02:55:19.200 --> 02:55:36.960
>> So, you The size last time was Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, I'll make a note. I can I can text let you know the story. You'll take care of the cart. So, I think that that's good. >> Oh, maybe we want to see if the police would bow us a cart.

638
02:55:36.960 --> 02:55:52.720
>> We buy them all this cool stuff and >> we should we should get to try it out once in a while. >> It has that sled. remember the uh uh that goes into the the uh >> it's the same same idea as what the

639
02:55:52.720 --> 02:56:09.120
police got. It's like a twodoor side by side with a >> Does does a Does the police have something that can be a you know hold flag inventory? >> And and you also we got a bubble machine.

640
02:56:09.120 --> 02:56:26.319
We can fit a bubble machine in there. >> And then so there's uh and rep are going to take the other uh the old >> the four-wheeler >> four-wheeler. I think we're gonna put Yeah. basically station it down down there at the beach. >> Go to the bath house. Oh, wait a minute.

641
02:56:26.319 --> 02:56:43.200
>> Yeah, I can talk to Chief. >> Okay, >> I move to adjourn. >> Second, >> we're done. >> Congratulations. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Miss Oh, good. I got

642
02:56:43.200 --> 02:56:58.720
>> And then if just remember the 6 too, July 6th, if if the fireworks are on the 3rd, no rain, >> the 6, we'll do like a we'll send you the time, but we'll do kind of like a walk out for Todd. >> It's his last day.

643
02:56:58.720 --> 02:57:12.359
>> Oh, and that's also our meeting, >> uh, that's also our meeting. Okay, good. >> Okay. Awesome.