Uh good evening everyone. Um welcome to the planning board meeting of um May 27th. Um uh call to order and roll call. So we start with that. Um show you show them how it's done. Uh Chris Ali here.
Gordon Brewster here. Peter Morton here. Sandy Bodmer Turner here. And uh Brian Fry here. Uh great. Welcome to Brian and Sandy. Um, and congratulations to Brian, Sandy, and Gordon for um, your election
uh, success. So, here we are. Um, really excited to have you on. And, um, I did uh, submit a letter to the Cricut today as is our practice to thank Laura and Mary for their uh, service for to the
planning board. Um so the first thing we're going to do uh very quickly I hope quickly um is to elect officers. Um we do this uh every year just to um
reorganize or organize um and um so are there any um nominations? So I'd like to nominate Sarah as chair and Sue Filick as vice chair. Second. Any discussion?
[Music] Um, all in favor? I I think um great. Well, thank you for your confidence and in us. Sue and I do work well together and we um we're one team here. So, great. Thank you. Um the next thing is
we um we actually have no other no um ANRS or other business. Um that uh so that worked out perfectly. Um tonight we have uh Kathy McCabe with us. Um, as you
saw her proposal, um, if, uh, you guys did not, but you know, we, uh, we have engaged Kathy to help us, um, with, um, some planning around the downtown. When we did the MBTA task force uh, work, we
identified the downtown as being vulnerable to, uh, changes. We know that we have some challenges with um economic development um with open unleashed properties and it seems to be um on
everybody's mind. So Kathy um introduce yourself and lead us. Okay. Okay. We are um uh it looks like we don't have too many people online, only Jane. Hi Jane. Um but we're going to engage pretty much with ourselves for for starters. If we
um have time, we'll do some public comment. But um we're there's going to be a discussion among ourselves. And I know Brian and Sandy, you're coming up to speed. Don't worry. This is a beginning, not an end. And um Kathy,
well, and thank you and congratulations to you and for your new new arrival status as planning board members. Uh I'm Kathy McCabe and I'm a planning consultant. I've been working in this um space of downtown
revitalization, community planning, and economic development for more years than I'd like to remember. Um but I I have a background that I've been on Boston landmarks commissioner commissioner in the past, so I understand historic districts as well as the economics of
downtown revitalization. And I'm also a daughter of a small business owner, so that kind of gives me a different insight. Um, so I was going to downtown committees and taking minutes when I was in, you know, high school. So, um, I
have a long, uh, interest and commitment to downtowns. And um basically what um our proposal was was to be able to help you do some initial visioning and
discussion and kind of build some consensus on the vision for the future of downtown Manchester or at least take the an initial cut at it. But also not just vision but because sometimes as
planners we look long term and we think about vision but people want action. So we want to so we want to make sure that um we identify some shortterm you know lowhanging fruit
action steps because oftentimes when you're in discussions of visioning people start identifying things that we should do. So it we kind of have a dual purpose and that kind of fits my approach to things because I think you need to you implementation is key to
planning and building public confidence and sustaining public confidence in planning and that's why my email is okay that plan do because I like to plan but I also like to um do something to make a difference. So that's kind of our scope,
you know, kind of broad brush scope. We're anticipating doing a community workshop um that's going to be participatory at uh your next planning board meeting which is Monday, June 9th.
And I've talked to Sarah and Mark about I think they're look working through the logistics and probably will involve you on some of that and encouraging members of other boards and committees and uh
your neighbors so that we get a lot many voices uh so that we can you know and the more voices that participate the better from my perspective because you can always narrow down but we call and get all the
uh all the you know all the ideas out there. Um so we're in we're going to do it in the evening. It's probably going to be two plus hours. I don't want to burn the midnight oil but it's not you know but having a
discussion takes some time and we we need to work through issues. But I would really want to start with a discussion now. Um because we talked about downtown, but I have a question for you about and maybe we can just go around
like a round table and then um is what makes downtown Manchester special to you? It's a walkable distance from my home. Um, and there's certain basic services
that I use. Um, I also feel that there's certain basic services that used to exist in the town for families and that are gone and have not been replaced and I'm not sure why. So, does that give you a sense? It's
however you want to answer. very broad, but it's like let's focus on what's special because that's really important to know and identify what's important to people. So, anyone can jump in. So,
um agree with with what Sandy said. Um love that it is walkable. It's um I think it's well proportioned to the size of the town. Um, I think that it could definitely be
better land as far as it's I mean for a town our size, it kind of seems like there's a little sprawl in there because you've got like two ends to it. And I wonder if by consolidating it a little, you could eliminate some of the issues that are
existing right now with with storefronts. I'm I'm concerned my concern is that um you know you've heard people talk about the dynamics of downtown and how they seem to see seem to be changing because there are less and less retailers there and uh the
categories of retail that are there are uh I mean real estate pretty much dominates a lot of downtown and I just wonder if with spiraling real estate costs
and the required rent to um to allow those if they are investments to work that it's unsustainable businesses in there. So I
just I'm really curious about the model as it exists today and whether there is a different model that we could consider. I don't know what that is. And I will say too that um in prior to this we had talked about um spending some
time with the master plan. Um it's interesting because um I basically looked at it for the comprehensively for the first time since I've lived in town and I've been here for 30 plus years. Although that plan was what 2017 is that when it was
released and a lot of the concerns that were outlined in that plan are exactly what we're hearing now. So that's that supports my point of how how can you fix it? It it just seems to be, you know, of a continuing
uh carousel really. I think what's going to be really telling is what happens with the uh the cargo unlimited building. And I think that's a really important piece to our downtown. Um, and I think we we need to be really careful
about the outcome of the at least the uh the first floor of that as it pertains to the rest of downtown. And there's been some conversation in this board that I've listened to and and agree with about how the town is in jeopardy of
being disconnected. And that's why I talk about possibly trying to um intentionally bring it more together. Um, I'm not, again, I'm not a a planner by trade, so I'm not sure how you do that, but you can just see it beginning to fray on the edges, and what's
happening is the middle is getting impacted. So, so you've been really good at diagnostics, but what's special to you? So, yeah. Um I think everything that I just uh provided diagnostics for I think it's a it as I said it's a manageable
town for the size the the um physical size of our town. I think it to Sy's point it's got um the uses that are important to a town. Um it's
uh it's in character with the rest of the town. Um, yeah. I'm not sure what else I could say right now, but I'm sure I'll hear some things from others here that will resonate, too. Thanks. Yeah. So, me, I I
I honestly can't differentiate the downtown from the rest of the town. I mean, the reason why I came here, my speech the other night, the reason the reason why I came here is because I love this little town. I love it. I love the size, the shape, access to schools, the fact you can walk, you can ride a bike
to the beach and all of that, all of those features. And the downtown itself, too. It's uh it's just a great place to live. But the downtown itself, honestly, this is my background is in real estate development. So, I'm not I'm not
unfamiliar with not this particular type of challenge, but I'm not unfamiliar with the process of coming in and making things better like that. So, I think this is a what we're about to embark on is really really a positive thing for us. I really think it's this kind of
like an untached unt untapped uh wealth of things to do in this town and yet yet to happen. And I think the pallet is kind of laid out and in some odd sort of way having the the tenants not entering here, not going into leases
in here actually may give us an opportunity to turn something around and utilize those spaces for something else. And so beyond that, I I just love it here. I love the small town and I see this is very much of a positive effort moving forward. Let's do it.
Um, I have a long list of things that I'd like us to talk about for improving, but in terms of what makes it special, um, my husband and I always say that Manchester has a strong sense of community and you can go, you can get
what you need to survive COVID in Manchester and downtown. There's a hardware store, there's a pharmacy, and there's a really good grocery store. Um, and a bank. Um, and and a drug store and
a liquor store, right? And a and some restaurants. So, um, and you go to the restaurants and you see people, you know, and you go to the grocery store and you see people you know, and you go to the post office to see people know. So, um I like the fact that you see people you know and that um but it is
part of a larger um I think also there's a wonderful park where kids play soccer and then there's the band stand and I see that as part of an important part of downtown and I think the jewel of Manchester is the
harbor and the harbor views I think are not to be are are critical to preserve and I and the the harbor view and the harbor um and the parks
um that are there are a really important part of downtown um and I'll hold on opportunities have a long list where yeah of worries
so for me Um, actually I think the harbor is a resource that we turned our back on. Yeah. It's our back door. It's not our front door, which is a huge mistake. Um, but my son refers to Manchester. He lives in Brooklyn and he
calls Manchester Busy Town. You know, Richard Scary's busy because we've got every little thing that's in Busy Town. We have the grocery store, the hardware store, the liquor store, the library, the bookstore. you know, there every little. So, that I think is that's I
think one of the charming things about the town. And the third one is the diversity of architecture. We don't have a style. We're not Nantucket. We're not Lichfield, Connecticut. It's it's this vast array of different kinds of
buildings that make the town very special, including the fact that half the downtown is residential. there are single family homes in this downtown with front lawns. So, that's sort of interesting. Also,
I'll say um what makes it special for me is the recreation and leisure activities um for families in particular that the downtown offers. Um some folks have touched on the public parks. So, Mascanoma Park is right there. We have a
great harbor view. We have the beach. um you can really spend a whole afternoon or day asterisk in the right season um with your family downtown. Um but I think that downtown is ripe for so much more opportunities with things like the
summer concert series we have at Moscano Park. Um those you know family oriented activities that draw folks to the downtown. Um, having more planned offerings and more for people to do to spend their money and time in the
downtown would be great. Mark, you want to add anything? Um, no. I think they've pretty much covered a lot of the things that people like when they have worked in a number of towns with little centers and the reasons why people like
it. Sense of community, the activities, the the opportunity to get what you need, all those types of things. Everything's here. Um so I think think uh everyone's mentioned those types of
things. Um so I I I I um you know waterfront I mean there's there's a lot of positive things here. So well along with the positive things and it's really helpful to hear and uh I'm
also pro posing these questions to the down to the downtown improvement committee. Good as well as the historic district commission. So I'm not just picking on you but you know I'm looking for common themes. Uh and this also
helps me get immersed in those sh and also help us prepare for the community workshop on the 9th. Um can I ask you a question of you Kathy? What's your impression of the town?
I think you have a really walkable downtown. You have an amazing array of different business types. um the harbor and the park being in close proximity, you see uh you seem to be
trying to figure out how to balance cars, pedestrians, and um bikes, which is not easy in any downtown. And for having a state road through through downtown, you're doing it pretty successfully. Um is there room for
improvement? There's always room for improvement. So, um I've always um yeah, I've driven through m uh through Manchester many times because I
used to have in-laws in um Magnolia. Um so I was more I'm more a little more familiar with Magnolia, but I Manchester always caught my eye, you know. So it's kind of like, oh, we should stop, you it
was, you know, but you know, we're always in a hurry because, you know, running, you know, when you have family events. So uh so I would I would overall I think it's really positive and I and the comments that I'm hearing is it's
not just about the it's about the place but also the people in the place and the warmth and friendship of you know that um having a a small downtown and seeing people you know and your neighbors kind
of um reinforces. So I think it's it strikes me as it's part of the heart of your town, an important part of the heart of your town. So I think there are three misconceptions that people have about the town. And the first one is is that we
have a parking and traffic problem. And it is true that maybe on six weekends a year we do have a traffic and parking. I didn't say you had a problem. I said I think you're look No, no, no. Balancing it. But I think I think residents have the perception that there's a parking
problem some and that tends to uh quash any kinds of talk about more retail or if there's a downtown that doesn't have a parking problem, it probably has a business development problem. Well,
we're only using 65% of our available parking, right? I mean, but when you have so much parking and you can, you know, park anywhere, it means you don't have enough customers. Yeah. So, it's there's a chicken and egg issue. Well, there's a
second misconception, which is that the market here is a high-end affluent market. And in fact, most of the businesses in downtown don't cater to the wealthy people. They cater to blue. The market is really a bluecollar market. The rich people all go to other
places to do their fancy shopping and eating. And the third misconception is that Manchester is a destination. And it is true. Seeing beach is a destination, but nothing else in town really is. We're we're on the
road from Beverly to Gloucester Magnolia and Magnolia. And people don't come here to because the downtown is here. They come because they're passing through for the most part. They come because of singing beach. Yeah, that's but that's only, you
know, that's a few weekends a year or no, they come to walk their dogs. Well, that's true. There other huge or play pickle ball on or play pickle ball on. Um yeah, I was gonna
say I kind of broke the opportunities or the um the the needs into a bunch of categories. Um I do think we have to our zoning it makes us very vulnerable right now to conversions to residential
um and with parking in front along the streetscape. That's that's um uh clear to me anyway um that we don't and we don't allow um mixed use the um we have some needs for public
services like the bathroom public bathrooms. We have needs for economic development. Um, you know, really thoughtful economic development that says, you know, Manchester is the place where you come for, uh, whatever it is.
Um, and that, um, there were two supplements that just came out. um and you look at the things to do in Manchester in both of those, the concerts weren't in there. The um you know, the the things that we already have were missing from one of them
entirely. Um and so we're not doing a good job of promoting and our businesses weren't highlighted and so for whatever reason in the in the that not the Cricut one but the other ones we were Yeah, the Glster Times one, it was like Salsbury
to marble head and Manchester got like this much space. So it we're what we're not publicizing it's an economic development effort. It needs to be you know we need to spend some effort on that I think to
promote what we have. Um and I wonder sort of to Chris's point about who the businesses have served historically. I think they have largely served the people who are here. Um and this and you know some people
that pass through but um and I'd be curious to know if my hunch is right or not. You know that people come and have you know the the town's people and I do think that there's another side of the economic development which is I call commerce and
you know any of us who have our doctor um send prescriptions to CVS instead of Allen's we're part of the problem. um you know, to the extent that we never go to Crosby's, then we're part of the problem. If we go to Home Depot and
never go to the hardware store, we're part of the problem. Um and um you know, I think we're all guilty. We the the town's people are all guilty of that. There's Amazon and those other things, but you know, um I worry about the aging
of some of the business owners. Um, you know, we need if with Allen's is going to continue to be a pharmacy, then somebody the owner is going to sell it someday, whether it's tomorrow or in 20 years, and in order for it to be a valuable
pharmacy, my prescriptions need to go there. So then I go in and buy my toothpaste, too. So I think we could communicate to the town's people their role in some of that as part of an economic development strategy. I mean it's, you know, we need to say keep your
business in town. Um, and perceived parking. Um, I think future flooding is a real uh is not future. And then the other thing is the economics of the rental of whatever the
first floors are going to be given that many of our buildings are very um are aging. any of the not our you know the private private the real estate is you know if you look across the street that building is 200 years old and it's you
know got powder in the in the um you don't have to look too hard to see the condition of that building. They the build many of our buildings in the town need in the downtown in particular need significant investment and in this
market that's the economics of um that concern me and I don't know what the answer to that is. I don't but it's part of the thing that um among the things we need to think
about um with there's incentives or if there are um help we can um give. So I have a couple comments and a couple questions. Yeah, I was, you know, kind
of piggybacking on Sarah's comments. My next question was speaking about what are your concerns about downtown and I think Sarah had a a litany of concerns. So you know um I have a couple comments.
Okay. One, I think I disagree with you, Chris, about uh not being a destination because I think we are a destination not just for Singing Beach, but the harbor that you both mentioned is a destination
and Bayern for whatever complications he's caused, has been working hard to make the harbor a destination. So people to make places where people can park their boats, walk into town, pick up a sandwich, you know, do whatever. So uh
so I think it it is currently a destination for sailors as well as um uh singing beach folks. Um and a lot of people do come up on the train and walk down to Sydney Beach because we're
probably the closest walkable beach. Um the second thing is I think that um I find um and I got a correction sort of from my daughter. It's very interesting. I was talking to her about the downtown
and I think they're demographics that are missing. One that I'm keenly aware when um we first came to town 26 years ago, there were lots of places shops that had things for kids. There were at least three places, you know, c at candy
store with Alice, there were and there were two different toy stores. Now toys are different, but toys for kids from zero to five maybe, you know, there's still toy stores for kids that age. So
um so there's a demographic around kids and school kids in particular younger school elementary school kids because there is a freedom that kids have here to move around and when it's an early release day kids used to go downtown get fried mozzarella sticks and a cream soda
right so you know so that's a missing piece I think and then that's a little bit looking backwards but looking forwards there is this new development uh this biotech development on the other side of the highway and um so there's
going to be a whole bunch of biotech workers so people who are in their 20s and 30s you know and how do we get them downtown and what what do they want and I guess my big question to you is how do
we figure out what people want you know both those I mean children I mean how do you figure that out and um because we've got a you know ladies dress shop real estate
aid I mean some ba basic good things but you know there's no and and there could be um if and I I don't know how you would actually do this but if you got a really
great restaurant here you might find people coming to town for that restaurant. Um, I'm not sure what it would be. I mean, I certainly have some ideas, but I know what the heck. I mean, that's my idea. What What are people looking for? Not another Italian pub
food place, please. Sorry, guys. Anyway, and that's about it. But I think, and this is something that I said just to um build on what you just said about there not being any toy stores in town anymore. I don't know, and that was
my point. I don't know that there will ever be another toy store in town just because of the ease of and the and the habits of the way people are purchasing now. I just don't I don't know that that's just a hunch. I don't I don't have any evidence to back it up other
than just watching retail trends. I think we have we have a lot of services downtown which I think all downtowns need. Um and I agree with Sarah. I think that those services are all very good services too. I mean I
think you nailed it. The Crosby, the I think Allen's and um the hardware store is awesome. I mean they've got a great selection there. And I agree we that's that's something that we've got to create awareness around is that these services are available at town.
I don't think I want to talk to the toy store because kids don't buy online. Parents buy online, but kids don't. And there are times when I do see children still coming from the school to go downtown, but there's really no place
for them to shop anymore. Where are they going to shop? Yeah. So, well, no, I toys. Not much. I mean, compared to what there used to be. No. And if you go
Why can't Gloucester have a great toy store? We don't. You know. So, but is there a toy store? Oh, there's a toy store in Main Street. That's great. If you have nieces or nephews or ch grandchildren, whatever in the zero to
five, six year old range. Yes. Got terrific choice. No, you're right. They used to if you if you got a $10 bill from your grandmother, you could go downtown and spend it, you know, and spend should I get that or get that, you know? Yeah. So that get some cheesy
little girl earrings or buy a puzzle or whatever. One one thing that dominates what Peter had mentioned many of his concerns uh earlier. So, what are some of your other concerns about downtown? So, one of one of the problems in town is that the
primary retail spaces are occupied by real estate brokers. Yeah. And they don't they they're not marketing the vitality of the town, right? And in fact, they're usually empty because the brokers are out showing houses or
working for you're referring to it's right across the street from it's a billboard. There are f what how many? There's five of them. four of them. Four or five in the downtown. Yeah. And they're all empty. Yeah. I worry about the pressure. I worry most
now most right now about the pressure for um the market for real estate. I mean, you can't buy anything in management store pretty much under a million dollars. And with the harbor views from some of the downtown
locations and our current zoning, I think we could see, you know, the Sovereign Bank convert to housing, the Harbor Point um convert to housing that um and that that's my biggest immediate
concern. I can I say something about that because I was in the current master plan the average median home value in Milchester in 2017 was $900,000 median right the median value now is
like $932,000 I think it's 1.1 well I okay well I looked it up on our not that much more is what your point is yeah is that it I mean that issue existed back then too. So and it's not unique to Manchester.
That's it. This is not a I don't think the affordability problem is something that is at all unique to Manchester. Um, but the dollars on the upper end for
some of these conversions may create greater pressure for Manchester than than they do for other places. Um, so um that's just my yeah opinion, but I'm not
a real state. The pressure I mean what I don't know what the rent will be for what was seven central. What's the rent going to be in? He the owner of that building at one that's being stripped right now said he's going to put commercial down there, too. What's the
rent going to be there? The point is, are they going to be um sustainable options for people to run a business, right? That is a great question. Retail, but I don't know how you overcome that. And yet, you look at the how much they're having to put into
the buildings. They're putting clearly putting in a lot of dollars. But I think the adding residential and keeping residential for example at school street as opposed to converting the whole building to
commercial is what subsidizing and m allows you to maintain the commercial space. So, um, you know, as we talk about zoning, that's kind of what we need to think about is, you know, just letting someone have
to renovate a commercial space for just commercial cost is not very coste effective and um the rents they'd have to charge would be astronomical unless it's your own building with your own
business. So um that's so I think I at least you know maintaining in some way the opportunity for residential but not completely residential. Yeah. Mixed uses really. we going to see more uh
development proposals like the one at Cargo where they may maintain a tiny little commercial sliver there just to keep up with the downtown um idea but the rest will be residential. It's the same with what seven central they're doing the same
thing. Right. They're at least putting a little bit exactly where it didn't hasn't existed in a while. Right. And maybe that's the right size. Maybe that's all you get is small storefronts, but you know that maintains the
vitality, you know, and even having some re real estate offices doesn't as long as it's part of a continuous stream of storefronts isn't necessarily a bad thing. People stop, they look that it's not a break like a parking lot or a
house in the streetscape of storefronts. I think the idea is if you're coming to shop for a house, you will go to the realtor and then you're going to go to the other places in town. It it is a a reason to come to Manchester. But um
I just I um there are two ideas I've had um you know as I've thought about this and what sort of in the short run um the library wants to expand. We've got empty downtown spaces. How do
we bring that though? How do we take some of that library functions that they want to expand to to uh to some of this space for a fiveyear period? The other thing is what are the um community- based
organizations who have offices? um one of mine but I'll talk to them first before I say it out in a public session but who have what are the community organizations who have office space small little office
space who could be incentivized to come and have office in downtown offices but if they're a public kind of organization perhaps part of the incentive was they in their office hours they provide public bathrooms in exchange for some
sort of um you know some sort of incentives um I who are the you know um and what what what's their raw um office space isn't the same as a store but certainly it's
better than vacant for sure and library programs are good for the um they bring people into library and all demographics and and a range of demographics. So, it's just the two thoughts um that I was
wondering about in the short run. Um would we or and who else is looking to you know what I'd like to go back to Peter's point a little bit about um the expense
of commercial retail space. Um, do we have any way as part of the work you're doing to learn e even if it's a confidential sort of way to get a sense of what's the range of rents so
you can begin to think about well you know you might have some artist sort of stuff you might you know I think uh downtown improvement you talked about that already this between 20 and $40 a square foot annual rented 20 to4 That's
that's a wide range depending on use and space and size everything. But that's that's pretty much what we're looking and that's current information. Very very current. Yeah. Okay. And is it correct? Did they did the did the downtown improvement go to every real
every owner here and figure that out? No. But there was there's enough people on the downtown improvement committee. They're aware of of what the rents are. Ah, okay. So there was no actual survey. No. So, what the downtown improvement is, you you probably know this already,
they're bringing in the owners of spaces to the downtown improvement meetings to get their opinion rather than just decide something out and then they're actually engaging them to figure out what how better to do it.
I would just say there's two things Cindy in response to your question in terms of this assignment is very short term and is very low budget. So uh and that's not to say that that's not a good question. It is a good question. Uh I
would say my experience with trying to get um really accurate numbers on per square foot, it's always a range and what it also varies that some people still charge by the month. Uh if it's an
investorowned building um that's relatively recent, they're doing by the square foot. But it also depends upon is it triple net or is it just a straight, you know, $40 triple net.
Suddenly triple net meaning that you pay you pay the tenant pays the taxes, they pay the insurance, and they pay for all all maintenance and utilities. So you're right. It's not a not a a hard thing you could put your f plus it
changes depending on the the colander proprietary and everything's negotiable you know commercial leasing is much more difficult to put your finger on particularly retail spaces because it also depends upon where you
are in the business district and your visibility and does it you know what's your access point so it's you know on residential You can look at per square foot, whether it's, you know, how many bedrooms, how many bathrooms, you know, harbor views,
no Harbor views, you know, first floor, second floor, third floor, walk up or elevator. Those are kind of your basic variables. Whereas in retail, who are you next to sometimes makes a big difference. Um, so is there's
one of the things I just want to point out is that with our going back to our current zoning, um, our the thing that may slow a residential conversions in our with our current zoning. And so we don't really allow mixed use, but you could convert
from commercial to um residential. But the we do have requirements for residential parking spaces on the lot and some of these lots don't have any way to do that. So they would need a
variance for that. So in the short that could keep us that could could help us at least if we you know slow down that would help us slow that down a little bit. Um and then we can think about whether that's a reason the right
requirement once we create perhaps a new zoning change. Um I do think we would be well served to address the zoning do something around that this cargo cargo
unlimited um sale and future unknown I think has got a lot of people's attention and so it's a good time for us to even if we have to do something in two steps in my opinion I would agree with
that both sense. So, I want to go back to Sandy's destination argument. Most destination places have places where visitors can come and stay. That's we don't And not only that, but we have a
very strict short-term rental policy in the town. And we don't even allow ADUs to be used as short-term rentals. And I wonder one of the things we could do for as part of our downtown zoning is to allow those in the downtown, not in the neighborhoods, but just so that we could
encourage people to put up visitors to the town in the downtown area. Meaning meaning what Chris were. So let's say you have breakfast an apartment above a store. So if you live in the downtown, you're able to do it. saying I'm saying
that those apartments should be maybe made easier to be short-term rentals. Yeah. To encourage visitors to come stay or we don't allow an inn. We don't allow it in. Maybe we should allow a small. Yeah. So speaking of and Sandy, you mentioned
this too and I think what we want to keep in mind through this process is there is a variable that we have not experienced during this conversation in the past and that is cell signaling. Right? I mean, they're eventually three years from now, four years from now,
they're going to be a lot of people out there and they're going to be looking for things to do at lunch and breakfast and that's going to help revitalize downtown, I would think. Um, and I also
I don't know what the status is of SLV, but if something ever happened there, suddenly you're going to have I mean the population too. Looking back at what the population was in Manchester when the first master plan was done, it was like 5600 people. It's less than that now.
So, um, you know, that might have something to do with what's going on downtown as well. We're not really growing as a as a town. We're actually shrinking, but we do have a couple of u variables that are going to at least
um during the daytime increase the size of our population and hopefully benefit downtown. And we got to be ready for that too, right? I mean, I know we put some uh conditions in the special permit for cell signaling around downtown. Did
we not? We couldn't really do that, but we talked about it and they did say that they intended to have shuttles or whatever to get people downtown, but that I think that's could could help quite a bit. How many people I have 250 stuck
in the first phase first work at home and those guys, right? True. There probably be no one in there. But um the I think one on the you know the seasonality component um is big too just
I think Peter mentioned that earlier too is um you know businesses coming in what can stick around um have we ever thought about doing some sort of exploring like a co-op model or like some I know I know there have been these kind of partnership models where you have you
know maybe a shared kitchen with a couple food stalls and then maybe you have like a community tie-in that has kind of an outreach program that's involved there so that a building could share various uses throughout the year and popups and tenants could come and go
with what makes sense. Um I don't know how that would work in somewhere like Manchester with our population, but well I think um right now if you look at the map the the parcel maps each parcel and each
building is separate. Some of them have common owners. Many of them have common ownership however um so that's perhaps an opportunity. But I think everything has kind of happened is my sense. There's not been a
downtown plan. Um there's been downtown improvement has done a lot of work on the sidewalks and the lights and those were all upgraded signage um upgraded. There was a big downtown improvement project like 20 years ago at this point.
um before the high school. So 20 years ago. Um and I know yikes I know. So um you know I I think it's been organic. It's a
building owner has a tenant. The tenant leaves. They get a new tenant. The tenant leaves. They get a new tenant upgrades. say, you know, I mean, think about the coffee cup changing to whatever it was to whatever it was to
boring to Jamie's. Yeah. Um, for for whatever reason, the market, it's all been market. The market hasn't said, "Let's bring back the coffee cup, which was kind of a diner." Yeah. the market hasn't said
that or the there isn't a person who has said I want that's a great place for a diner I know it used to be a diner even though we all can say oh wouldn't it be nice if that was a diner or Peggy's sub shop or whatever the I whatever Facebook
said today that whatever parcel should have what not you know could why don't we bring back whatever sachs or whatever the your favorite uh and there hasn't been a plan or a um
it's been organically um driven by entrepreneurs who and business owners who are looking for a spot and think you know and I do know that to to Chris's uh earlier point is that it's not a destination or and a lot of times there
have have been stores have come in thinking that it's a high-end retail market and it's actually not. They've said over and over, it's not a high-end retail market. not going to actually pick up and go to Marble Hush, you know,
because that the 30,000 people versus five and you know, is there is there currently a downtown association of U merchants that I know I've been reading
that the chamber, the Cape Chamber is very active and helps Manchester a lot, but is there a Manchester specific? There's a Manchester subgroup of the Cape Chamber, but they're not very active. Yeah. Brown is very active in with all
emergency, right? It's also the head of the KN district. It's more just Jim Brown. Can I can I be a downer for a second? No, no, not you. Oh, go for it. Isn't Isn't there a
reality though that small town small needs basic services are are are key to us for staying for maintaining and I know we're talking about high-end. I know Chris you've talked about artist communities which is really attractive here and and you you just mentioned
something that really gets me going here is that the the the downtown has grown organically. There is no organization to it. There's no thought there's giant spaces between buildings and then there's crammed together in other spaces here. So it's it's a it's it's it's also
it's in addition to the type of merchants that we may want here. It's also the the physical setting down there, the infrastructure that we have is not conducive to that nice small downtown vibrant parking everywhere. It just it just isn't. So I I think there's
a reality that we have to face. Not that we have to give into it because I'm still very positive for it. But it is something that it's true. Small populations, small demands in the wintertime. I'm not here in the winter time. At least in years past, but I know I'm sure it's very Monday. I'm here
every Monday. It's very quiet here in the in the um I wouldn't say that today, but on there was a very interesting thing. I mean, it was a little bit of a I was very interested to hear what people had to say about the feeling of
community and going to the store and meeting somebody, you know, and blah blah blah all that, right? So, um in inadvertently because they came to us, there was an MIT class that Yeah.
And um they to to your point about no you know that it hasn't been directed in terms of how things have kind of just occurred. It's it's both entrepreneurship but it's interacting with the existing zoning too and the
existing owners. But this MIT crew a bunch of young people came and they asked a question that has stuck in my mind ever since. They said, "Why did you pave over pretty much the area where you
can sit and look at the harbor?" You know, like the whole harbor point is pave basically, right? So, I think it's a good question and they had some intriguing answers to alternatives for taking Crosby's and
moving it across the street. Yeah. Yeah, that you know that that it it it was a good exercise I found to bump up against because we all come from our own
histories and what we're accustomed to and habits and they had a couple of pretty interesting ideas I thought and we might want to fold it into our deliberations a little bit here. So what was their what was their conclusion? because they Oh, this is what you were
talking to me about, correct? Yeah. So, the their conclusion was that if you want to take advantage of the harbor, you got to visit it. And it's only visible from beyond the railroad tracks essentially. So, their idea of taking Crosbies and
moving across the street wasn't crazy from an urban planning point of view. It was to create a a focal point in the town where you could sit and look at the harbor and be in the middle of the downtown. Yeah. But there might be a way to do that without moving. Well, there
might be. And of course, we have the No, no. The parking lot right out here, which is more, you know, more paving right up against the waterfront. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Well, there's humanities to think about. And you know,
we'll have to workshop to kind of think through some of that. Um, so I wanted to be sure you knew about that MIT. I did. So I did talk, you know, so I'm trying to figure out which faculty member I
happen to be an MIT grad. So I Okay, great. So I'm curious about which faculty member sponsored. Uh I have his email address. I can get it to you. We have the report and the report. But I think that it it actually raises the
question that is who is our downtown for? And I think um people one of the things that always comes up is I was I had dinner with somebody and we were talking about downtown and he said I want it to be vibrant and I don't want any more people. I don't want it I don't
want to be a tourist destination and I think we have tried to walk that line and the tourists stay the singing beach side of the railroad tracks and um
the you know and um so that is a real tension and um you got to stand up out of the feet first and and then
um but the the Mascanomo Park parking lot on the point is actually exactly that because I happened to be down there today um taking a phone call I pulled in and there are many people there's a
there was a council a um like a nursing home van an and they had parked there and they had the people walk just a few steps to the point and there are a lot of people who enjoy the water from their car year round because there's parking
there. So I think that's it's a interest it's a complete antithesis to good urban planning but the way it gets used we would might want to think about whether that's I think it's but it's a little bit about who's it for. Yeah. you know
that parking. Why is it paved that way? Because it's close to the commercial fisherman. Because it's close to the harbor dock. And a lot of people actually year round and day and night like nighttime sit there in their
cars smoking or reading the paper go down there in the morning because seriously you have six or 10 cars. Sarah, I wasn't talking about that parking. I was talking about the parking that's uh surrounds,
right? But but anyway, but all but there is park there is um but I think it raises the larger question about who is our downtown for now asex folks come to Crosby's I believe you know for the
quick thing that they need because they don't have a grocery store and Magnolia folks and I think it also helps to think about what is the definition of a tourist because a technically a tourist
is someone who travels at least 50 miles. Oh, and stays overnight. Oh, so that is what kind when you do tourism data analysis, that's what you're really looking at. Sometimes I think people are
using that and it speaks to Chris your reference that we're not a Manchester is not a tourist destination because we don't have overnight stays. Mhm. But the question then is what about visitors? Save troopers and
you know visitors are you know are really people who travel you know um less than an you know an hour two hours may do a day trip may do a half day trip maybe you know um you know you have also friends and relatives who may
stay with some people here maybe there you know overnighting you know there is a B&B in Magnolia um you know or or in Glouester or Beverly. Um, but they're visiting family
here. So, I mean, uh, yeah, you know, there's probably some impressions of what a tourist destination is that people don't want. And maybe it's let's learn about what people don't want about a tourist destination so we don't go
that direction. But the businesses may need more people than who just live within Manchester. Yeah. I think I think downtowns are changing. It's not just Manchester, right? Um people are shopping online.
That's just the reality of it. Big box stores, you know, you have a long list of stuff you're going to get. You're not going to go to the hardware store. You'll go get the hooks and the little stuff, but that you forgot. But if you're building something or doing some major project, you going to Home Depot
or some other place. Um, kind of what I'm hearing is what we may want to people have to accept that downtown can't be just for the people who live here. um if you want it to be vibrant and busy and have
storefronts and that kind of stuff. But you no matter what, I don't think Manchester is ever going to be a true tourist destination. We can change all the streetscape. I can improve and come up with plans to improve the parks and
improve the parking lots and make everything cute and quaint and perfect. You're still not going to become even build a hotel and an inn and you're still not going to become a true tourist destination. You're just too small. You
don't have enough room, enough land area to develop that type of stuff. But you can attract visitors, whether those visitors are the 250 people working at CST who might go out to lunch or grab
didn't get didn't work late and grabbed dinner because they don't want to cook. Um, or the voters, they didn't get a chance to go do their laundry and they need to buy a shirt for the next day. Whatever the issue is, they will support
the businesses if you have the right mix of things. It's attractive. It's easy to get to. There's parking, which you do have. You do have parking, but it's going to be a nice place to go. And same thing 127, you mentioned the state road.
How many people, thousands of people drive through downtown Manchester on their way somewhere else and don't stop. You don't think about stopping if you're not from Manchester, so to speak, or saw the movie or something like that. So,
you need to create a uniqueness so that when people Yes. come around the corner and they go, "Oh, here's downtown. There's a spot. Let's pull over." Give them reasons to linger. Give them reasons to spend some money while they're here. You're not going to be
competing with true tourist destinations, but you certainly can do better job through all various types of public improvements. Um, uh, and to expand on that, Mark, what various
types? Well, streetscape is one that's been mentioned a bunch of times. Clearly, that's one, but it's again street. Making your your downtown a unique place. Um, you see it in lots of places. Brick sidewalks, the the formula is
pretty much the same, but how you implement it locally is what's really important. the finetuning, you know, the the parking, the bumpouts, making it safe for people to cross, make slowing traffic down, uh proper signage uh to
where the parking is. uh nice uh lit and uh attractive walkways from one place to another, places to linger around along the waterfront with comfortable benches and a walkway and shade trees and all
those types of things. I mean, you can I mean, I we could take a little walk around downtown and I could point out, you know, as we move through different places, things that you could be done to make it more attractive. And that's what what people like when they're taking
their day um to go visit somewhere. They they may go want to go to Rockport, but they drive through and they go, "Oh, this is cute. Let's stop. Haven't seen these in this before." So um so there's there's uh there's that
thing and then that makes it you know be uh more attractive for the local people and it helps supports the other storefronts that you want to keep open so that you have more choices as a resident. So th those are just some of the things.
The other couple things for opportunities you do have like you mentioned the library and town hall. They bring people local people to the downtown. The senior center opening one in back here is going to be uh quite
helpful as well. Um, parking and um so um yeah and and expanding the docks in the summertime. I was talking to one of the harbor masters today and um he said
last year it brought in like over $400,000 in revenue to the town voters. Just think about how much additional money they have spent in all the stores and the restaurants was the 400 grand. I think that's what
they they that's the estimate from the number of people who are using the Trion the the transient docks. I think it's a it's a extrapolation. It's an it's a guest. I'm not sure. It's a It's a Oh,
is it? Okay. I didn't I didn't go into detail about where the number came from, but we can talk about that. Okay. Well, you're on the harbor management. Yeah. But, um, I think I'm gonna again, I want to think about I I
like to think about what we can do soon. And I was thinking about um you know the kiosks at every hotel, every bed and breakfast in do they have a a a thing that says come to Manchester because you can go to Singing
Beach. It's 20, you know, you got to pay a day fee, but you know, and then you can go to these three restaurants, four restaurants, five restaurants, whatever it is. And um you know, is there something there? How how did we miss the
boat on those summer uh uh things to do? um shortterm like short-term beautifification like can we engage uh next year a um one of the student the senior
projects um to you know put window boxes on every you know business with a lot of the businesses really do a nice job already and then have friends of trees water them or you know like what are those shortterm
things that we can that can be done and who's going to do them and how they're going to get paid for. And then the idea is that that creates also an opportunity because what if we had a couple of anchor stores or retail establishment the thing that people are
going to come for I can only get my widget at the widget store in Manchester. Um, I don't know how you'd find that thing. Um, but then people come for that and stay for the the beer,
whatever. So, there you have some anchors. Yes, your library is one of your anchors. Town hall is one of your But I don't think anybody's coming from out of town to come to town hall unless they want to get married. Well, there
stores that draw. I mean, you know, restaurants often draw. I I think your restaurants may have more of a localized market than a draw market. Um, but nobody knows about them. Part two, perhaps, you know, marketing is a you
have to do marketing these days and I heard that several times. So, I mean, I mean, maybe it's happening more than I know, too. I mean, well, there's things like farmers markets pop up in. Uh, well, it's interesting. We have a lobster fleet here, but you can't buy a lobster, which is kind of Well, maybe
you figure out why or two. Maybe, you know, maybe it becomes the first Friday of every month and season becomes lobster night. So, you can Yeah, but you got to work with your board of health that way. You know, there's there's things that you can think about. Um, and
also your lobster fisherman have to be willing to, you know, maybe it's not a Friday night. They may want maybe it's, you know, there's no day. So I have an existential question here which is solving the downtown is a huge
enterprise and it requires a lot of things happening at once. Public improvements, zoning changes, marketing, events, all these things have to happen in a coordinated way. But we don't have the power to make those things happen. We can change the
zoning, I guess, and we can encourage other people to do things, but we're going to need the cooperation of other boards like the downtown improvement committee. So, what about Chris to your point though? I mean, why couldn't we be thinking about this too after going says
but you put me through for the last few weeks? Why can't why can't we champion the the idea of all this? So, I think we can champion it. We just can't necessarily deliver. Yeah. Well, but he can but
championing makes a difference. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. We do have to champion, but we can't just announce that this is what's going to happen. You're right. No, you have to. Well, that's why we're doing some visioning and planning and trying to build
sensar enlarge this, you know. Yeah. circle of stakeholders because you're pivotal in terms of some actions but you don't you're it's every aspect of downtown is not the domain of the planning board. So it's a
multiaceted. You're absolutely right Chris. Uh and you know taking from the National Trust for Historic Preservation that you know they founded the main street approach which is design organization promotion and economic um
restructuring or e you know economics you know thriving economic district. They kind of changed the words. Um so those principles of design, organization, promotion and you know u thriving
economics still if you think you've got to work on all four things. So some of the things you've talked about relate to promotions some relate to the design and character whether that's the infrastructure whether it's the buildings and the historic district some
of it relates to the economics. talked a lot about real estate this evening, you know, whether it's square footage, whether it's the customer base for the store. So, there's aspects of that, but it also requires
organization. You know, many one of the lessons we can learn from shopping centers is they have centralized retail management. They have one entity who's working on leasing, promotion, and all all these things. We
we were a a successful downtown with many many owners, property owners, many many different business owners, and some may sing the same tune, but there's probably many harmonies and many tunes and some that may not sound
too good together. Uh, so we got to figure out how do we make that chorus more appealing to the ear and more more voices. Yeah. Can I just say so when when Mark first brought this idea of working with with you on this, one of
the questions that came up was um we should be aware of what the master plan includes about this topic. And if you go to the master plan, there are two pages that are dedicated
specifically to everything we just talked about. And that was eight years ago. So all I'm saying is I just want to caution us that we don't try and reinvent the wheel here because it's all it's all right here. I've read it and I I'm aware of it, but but the
organization piece is missing. But it's but it's referenced in here. No, but I think that there had that there the downtown and improvement committee is been really working hard on this and and and so I don't want to just but
but they've been kind of alone and so I think it needs more and um and I totally agree. That's exactly what this said. We just haven't done it. Yeah. So, and we had COVID in the middle of that too,
don't we? So, um the four pillars were design, organization, economics, and and promotion. And promotion, marketing, which happens each very broadly. They don't have together. They can't be one. It's not We're going to swirl those four
together. Is it led by design? What does design mean, by the way? Well, design often refers to um your building design. Sometimes it's your window display is an a aspect of design. Uh you know building
improvements, renovation, maintaining your facade, maintain your building. Is it accessible can fall under design. Signage can fall under design. Wayfinding can fall under design. You know some people go towards placemaking
and how to connect better with transit. Zoning. Zoning is a design statement to be in many ways. Uh so it can be a very it can be very broad. You may prioritize and focus on certain things but it can be
very broad. promotion and marketing can, you know, there's all different layers, whether it's social media, whether it's, you know, traditional advertising and marketing, whether it's special events and, you know, there's retail events and special events, there's image
development events, there's a lot of different aspects of promotion. Um you know in terms of looking at organization some of it's the you know how do you build those partnerships
whether it's with the chamber and regional entities in terms of all the local committees. How do you bring people together doing some planning and building you know some consensus? It may be a management
entity. Some downtowns not only have a local downtown improvement committee, some have what's called a business improvement district. Um, that may not be where you want to go. Business improvement districts can
collect that to advance a plan that's supplemental to municipal services. You know, some people do parking benefit districts so that they charge for parking and then use that money to for downtown improvements because you need
to figure out how do you finance things. You know, some towns put it out of their, you know, take it out of their general fund. You know, yeah, we can get into a lot of nitty-gritty details. We're probably not going to get to that level. But
organizations like how do you get things done? How do you you know who all do you get have to invite to make sure all of us get get together? Um and you know just like the planning board is very
important but you also have a a staff director of planning. So, you know, managing volunteers and having staff support for, you know, volunteer efforts. I wanted to raise Kathy, I see your hand up. I'll
get to you in a minute. Okay. Um Oh, one of our select board members is has her hand up. Um but I wanted to raise two things that are one is the planning board. um you know we could see it as an opportunity but it's also could be a curse and that is we um site plan review
or special permits in the downtown. So they give us the opportunity to guide the um the design and that kind of thing. At the same time, we are historically have been
slow and bureaucratic on sometimes on site plan and special permits that some some people would argue that um I know Windover at one point finally said they're not doing they weren't going to do any more built projects because management was too difficult.
So, it's something to think about and part of it we control um and we will certainly be inclined to say special permit um for some uses perhaps um and and rightly so probably but it's
something to be mindful of in terms of being uh expeditious, thorough but respectful of the the that time is money for applicants. So, that's just something that we should be aware of.
And um the other thing I'm looking around at the pictures on the wall um which all have to be schools, but um this town seems to have vocal
uh opposition to any change. Um that doesn't mean I think we've learned um in the last year with our zoning efforts that vocal and votes
aren't always the same thing. Um and um so we have to have courage. Um you know the the wall in front of Crosby's was literally going to cause kids do you remember this? To smoke pot, sit around and smoke pot. And you know the tennis
courts, we could talk about that for a long time. Um, but you know, the the change of that that it has been that then is like kind of becomes part of the fabric of the town. Um,
is we have to um I don't know. It seems to be particularly challenging in Manchester. Can I can I say something? Just say I am surprised to hear that from you. You the
leader of the of of the biggest change this town has ever seen with that whole middle school, high school in the middle of Yeah. But it took What did it take? It was a massive effort right here. But it happened though. Yeah, I know. But it took But I think we have to have courage
to to recognize that. I mean, it's just like the MBTA zoning, right? If you listened to the voice, that was amazing. It was turns out it was 23% of the vote when the and same with accessory dwelling units for 10 years. We tried to
get that passed and it was well 23% of the vote, you know, like I think informing people is so important to people. It's hard to do because and I think social media has become made it even more worse. So, but I think the other thing is that change is happening
and if we don't manage it, it's things like cargo going. Exactly. Well, that's exactly right. I think that people need to understand that the status quo is not going to keep the status quo. That's right. Right. Right. That's exactly it. And I think that's becoming obvious to a
lot of people with the changes that have happened in the D1 and D2 districts. We um we don't have many people online, but I'd like to just hear from um Kathy Bulada, who's a select board member and has had her hand raised for a while. Kathy, go ahead. Hi. Um sorry, can you
hear me? Okay. Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, I just wanted to mention a couple of things because you guys raised some really good questions. Um number one, I just got my quarterly uh notice about the upcoming uh uh Chamber of Commerce
meeting. It's being scheduled. So, I wasn't sure if you guys were aware, we uh the select board, town administrator, chiefs of fire and police, and uh the chair of the downtown improvement committee all meet with uh members of the chamber of commerce every quarter.
And I just noticed that I don't see representation from the planning board or or Mark uh specifically on that invitation. So, I think that's one um way for the planning board and or Mark to engage in conversations about some of the short-term things you were talking
about. So, um I'll I'll connect you and and make sure that that happens. But it's a really great forum. We meet with business owners and representatives from the chamber and talk about events and marketing and what do the business owners need. So, just want to make sure
ask if would it make sense to have Kathy come and do an interview there or before or after? We can maybe think about that. Yeah. Other agenda items. Yeah. The um so it's run by the chamber. Um so, and
not all businesses are there, but it's a great connection point for the town officials and town staff to meet with business owners, but it's not everybody. So, I just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of it um because I do think that's a gap if if no one representing
the planning um board or town planner is attending. Um secondly, we talked about here I heard you talk about a lot of um what I'll call governance issues. Who's who who's doing what and it was something I was actually going to bring
up at Monday's uh select board meeting, our next meeting. I think it's worthwhile for the planning board and select board to kind of figure out that who's taking the lead on what because you're right, downtown improvement has been doing a lot, but it's a little bit
different than perhaps what their original charter was. So, we need to kind of just take a peek at that and make sure collectively we want to keep it the same or maybe maybe not. So, I just I do think there's a governance issue worth discussing. And then lastly,
um, a big fan of taking a look at the, uh, master plan. Um, as you said, a lot of some of these items are already covered in there. And also, there's also a subsequent downtown improvement 2.0 presentation that was given to both the
uh, select board and planning board at least a year or two ago. And that also has some nuggets about the uh, you know, the beautifification of the downtown. and some of those items were put on hold because of the culvert project. Um we we
didn't want to spend money on things that potentially could get ripped up. So I do think there are some other artifacts that we want to take a peek at um so we don't reinvent the wheel. Just just those three things. Thank you Kathy. Can I speak about that
streetscape the 2.0 part? So I I was I was intimately involved with that whole thing and yes indeed the Culbert project kind of everything and dollars and money and where's financing come from and all the practical stuff in here. But and I
do agree that the uh the whole mission of the downtown improvement has evolved into a different direction from what it was three years ago when I first joined it. It was it was all about beautifification and curb line and speed lights and stuff. Now, that's not even
brought up. Now, it's all about revitalizing the downtowns. What What is the way to do it fits in hand and glove to what we're talking about here, right? And I think they they you know, because the beautifification was kind of slow slowed down a bit because of the
culvert project, they uh had brought in members of the business community to just say, you know, how else can we be helpful? So, I think they, you know, they have redirected themselves a little bit. um you know uh with good intentions and done a lot of great work especially
in the past couple of months. Um but I I do think it's appropriate for the select board and the planning board to kind of just take a look at what's going on and make sure we're clear on who's taking the lead on what. Otherwise there's duplication of effort and that's that that usually doesn't wind up leading to
good things. We're not quite sure what we're doing yet. So but that's a really good couple really good points. Thank you. Um, let me see if a couple other people or anybody else. Um, Adam or Jane want to say
anything? Okay. Um, so can we talk a little bit about June 9th and switch gears? Sure. So, um I believe Sarah and Mark um shared with
you my draft working agenda for the um June 9th community workshop. And one of the things I wanted um I I did bring some extra copies if um if we need it. Um
is that your proposal? No, I was supposed to put it in the back there. Thank you. So I I think that um without getting in walking through everything or maybe we
can uh can we actually start with the should does June 9th feel too soon and um for uh I'll put it up on the screen and um so that's that's one
question maybe to I answer it. Yeah. In my experience, it is a bit too soon. If you don't we don't have something that we're if we're just out there throwing it out and casting a net and hoping to reap in something, that's one thing. But
if you're expecting to have a a real solid conversation, I think this might be might be chancy to do it this way. Just one man's opinion. You know, uh we can't allow perfection to slow it. You know, perfection is the enemy of
completion and moving forward often. And and I tend to have those perfectionist tendencies anyway. So, I I certainly like to have get more done than we sometimes do. But I think bringing people together to have a
conversation. We're having smaller group com smaller conversations like we did just now. We did that with the downtown improvement committee in the historic district and we're hoping to do it with a couple others before the 9th. Uh, and those conversations can continue, but
trying to get a kind of vision statement and a rough draft. We can always fine-tune it in the future, but let's kind of start get that first cut and get that first cut at
those early action items. I think we we can do it because every group I've talked to so far has already started on those early action items and you've got many of the ingredients and I think Peter's right and Kathy's right a lot of
that is in the master plan so we can you revisit it. Uh and I think some of um so really having the workshop I see as having a mix of some small groupoup discussions because sometimes it's a a group this
size where it's easier to have a discussion than having a discussion with 50 people at one time. So I tend to use a mix of small groups and as well as some at large
discussion. So, one of the things on the agenda you'll notice is that we divide up into small groups a couple different times and that's um so I wanted to get and uh when I talked to Mark and Sarah
about it, we thought each of you could take sit at a different table. So, we're going to let people self- select, encourage people to sit in a place where maybe they don't know someone. Uh, so they meet their neighbors and we we
welcome people. But if we can have each member of the planning board sit at a different table because what I like to do is uh and I tend to have handouts for every table on every person. Um, so that
someone can be the what I call the recorder and take the big ideas and consensus ideas and put it on flip chart paper and that could be and someone also be the um reporter so talking out. So it
doesn't have to be the same person. Um, but having a resource person like a planning board member, you don't have to be the recorder and you don't have to be the reporter, but you need to make sure there's someone at your table who does each of those functions. And it may be
you, but you know, you figure it out amongst yourselves. Um, and I think that helps move things along. Um, and it the goal is not not necessarily to report that there's six or seven different
ideas at your table. It's what as a group where your consensus points are. Um, so you know, people might say, "Oh, that's a really intriguing idea and only maybe one person mentioned it." But if people are comfortable as a group saying
we should talk more about that, bring it up as a group. But we don't need the recitation of the seven different ideas. We need the kind of the summary, the common threads. Uh and that would be your role as kind of the resource person
for each table. So you're taking a leadership role and convening role for each table. So I have some logistical questions. Actually, I think it's really good to do it right up front. start off with this because it is going to shape
the rest of the discussion going forward. But I think we have to be careful not to assume that the people who attend this first thing are going to have the right answer. It may it's going to evolve over time. There's no wrong answers. They're all, you know, and some
answers may be embraced by more people than others, but so are we where is this going to happen? I was just going to ask Mark if he had checked with the Did you check with the high school uh cafeteria? I haven't booked anything because I wanted
to make sure. No. And does this rule out Zoom participation because we're going to do all face to face. It is really difficult to to do effective hybrid because we're wanting conversation to get to that consensus. There's times and
places where later on in our planning process. Um I'm certainly very comfortable and have done hybrid workshops before. Uh but I think for this we're we were talking about the school uh and we are on a very short
timeline. So it is much more preparation to do a hybrid meeting than weeks. So I was going to um say why we're on a short time frame just to give you the everybody. So this is this fiscal year's money. Yeah. And so we want to try to
use Kathy's time and the other thing is um graduation is uh that Friday. So then people do start to disappear for the summer and so as we want to try to do some work over the summer having this
input um I think makes sense and um we certainly can repeat these forum you know several times and get other opportunities. I also think we have the energy coming from people's reaction to what happens to and the other thing is
that um you haven't yet seen our timeline but to get a a zoning change to town meeting if we have a town meeting in November means it needs to be done October 1st and even before that
which means a draft you know September 15th so that we start socializing it and um have just the hearings you need to have and the all of those those the postings and all of that. So So one of the things from
experience with MBTA zoning we get 30 people to this will be doing pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. And that means there'll be like three or four people per group which means kind of small great discussion maybe I don't know. Well, I think we're going to encourage the downtown improvement and the
historic the other other committees to Well, we're encouraging people in lovely June night to Yeah. So, can I So, if we do this June 9th, when does the first post or communication go out about the That's where we got to market the nail
down the Darl said you guys are going to take care of the logistics and outreach. So yeah, Tiffany will, you know, as soon as we as soon as we have the room, Tiffany will basically handle the it will go into Greg's um uh thing next week and you know, people plan a week
and a half. Is every group going to have the same topics to discuss? But it looks like that's how you get a consensus. I just wonder if it makes sense to have different topics. I I like to have the mix of opinions
because the planning board talks to the planning board a lot. The downtown improvement committee always talks to themselves, the historic district, and we need to kind of do a little cross fertilization. Um because I'm not worried you'll all go back to your uh
corners and regular meeting schedules afterwards. So you'll you'll chat, but we need to get that cross fertilization. So So this meeting is hosted by the planning board. Okay. So, will the downtown improvement committee have
Yeah. Will they come back? Well, well, I hope they do. Yeah. They're very vocal. Yeah. Have you met them? You've met all of them yet, Kathy? No. I I did mention it at both committee meetings that was going to be likely and
it's hosted by the planning board, but I was going to their meetings before the planning board. So, there's a little sequencing challenge here. talk to I can talk to the head of the Well, let's get we have to schedule the room tomorrow morning. So, if we have to push it a week,
check with your schedule. Okay. So, I think logistics I'm not worried about the logistics. I think the cafeteria at the high school works well except for the um I said I warned her that the chairs are hard to sit in for a long time. So, make people get up and do a stretch or something. So, so I'm a
little confused about the mix of the audience. So, is the are the participants is the way you're thinking about it to be kind of getting the relevant actors in government together or is it getting a
lot of I am open to both. It's really okay. the planning board's posting it. So, and you all um I'd like to know what your participation goal is so that I know how many handouts to have and and
you know how many tables I might likely need to be prepared for, but I can do as many as you want. I think the thought was that it would be um there's a lot of overlap among the the committees and the people who come
to all of these forums. Um so that's one thing and I think we would want to encourage interested citizens to come talk about you you're business owners.
Yeah. though we may need another week or so. When we when we did the MBTA forums and yeah the harbor management one we got what about about all the same number what 40 50 somewhere right in that not
more but it was more it wasn't designed so much for other government entities as it was for the public if I'm remembering right about the quorums I think it's an opportunity to say we're thinking about this issue we want your input early on.
Um and um you know, we'll probably hear all of these same thing we've talked about, but hopefully we'll also hear from interesting solutions and find the the couple of people who want to help, you
know, window box, whatever. As Chris said earlier, downtown's very complex and there's a lot of different pieces and the planning board deals with the land use and zoning, but you need, you know,
marketing and you need, you know, business and you need real estate. So, you know, the bigger mix you have, think of this as a way of setting the table to begin the discussion. Um, and this is really kind of your
first discussion event. um because I and that's what we're kind of doing in this fiscal year. You may want to then continue doing some more planning and getting in going more in depth, but we're we're starting on, you know, kind
of the broad understand everyone together and we're still in the broad brush stage. Um but it's a beginning. One thing that we haven't talked about tonight, and I don't know if we want to
spend any time on it tonight, but we haven't really talked about where is downtown. Um, and um, and I think somebody said, should we
focus whatever this effort is more tightly on a, you know, where would we start? Where would I know that was always a downtown when I was on downtown improvement maybe five years ago that was an issue too um
just because that was the mutification phase of downtown improvement. So, you know, how do we um where where is the action? And we may not need to Well, I I think I want to kind of yield to Mark for a little bit
because he put together some maps on different perspectives of downtown. result. So, in your packet, I put map of the entire downtown general district so that you could look at that. Um, one that's okay.
But the the other thing I did is I put together a map that included the entire general district. And I'm going to pass this around, but it has no lines drawn on it. And so what I thought would be a good exercise was for everyone to draw
um on the map the area that they perceive as the downtown part of of mansion. Not what the zoning shows, but what you proceed to downtown. And if we were going to work
on such such distinct area or uh including maybe a streetscape project or um other unique changes, what what would you how would you draw that?
And then I actually do have up on the the general district which I think is interesting include a lot of land behind. Right. But first look here. Yeah. Look at your map and draw the area.
So you're collecting data from us. Circle around the outside of it. draw around the property lines where if you were all of a sudden zoning zar or the downtown zonings are how would you draw like the the downtown zone? So let I
have to be particular here. Are we talking about the the merkantile downtown or are we talking about whatever you want? I would include residential in that too. I mean that's how what however you want to perceive
it. Um I would because well I I I mean more of your downtown business area. downtown like if you were going to create a specific like you can I don't want you to include residential if you don't want to somehow in the future have
it be part of a commercial downtown district. I mean because that's what we're really leading towards is how do we define the downtown area because you do have such a large and vast general district.
So, some of those are quote downtown residential style areas, but I don't think you want them. I mean, a large portion of your residential areas around the downtown are like that, no matter which how they're zone. So,
If people are comfortable, it would be great if you put your name in the corner and then Mark, maybe we can collect them and then scan them so all of you can see the different definitions. Always
revealing. Let's see here. Oh my goodness. We need a fast. [Music] Okay. We should all come up with the same plan. by the way. I mean, if everyone
comes up with the same general thing, aside from maybe a few properties here or there, that's that's a good thing. That's really showing that there's kind of a general understanding of what we
you you perceive as the downtown. And um that's it's um and if you guys are all over the place, then you've got you got work. You've got a lot of work to do because
that probably is an indication of the general community is also as as as many diverse opinions on what downtown is as as this six six years.
It's the micro. That's right. Yes. [Music] interesting. Let's see. I mean, you almost have to go parcel by parcel because I'm legal. Well, no. I'm I'm looking up one parcel that I'm curious about.
What are you doing? I was just looking up. If someone wants to read these stairs, we put our initials on these things. Yeah. I think you wanted our names on so we can watch. All right.
Did everybody put their names on it? I want to make sure if you wouldn't mind. Thanks. Oh boy. Well, either Mark or I will share it with all of you. So, yeah. Okay. Are you doing one too, Mark?
Um, you need to draw one, too. I need to draw one. Yes, you do. I'll do one pretty quickly, I think. Um, you know what's interesting? Actually, I already lived in the town for a very long time.
Remember there being little commercial enterprises scattered throughout the residential, little tiny shops. Well, there I mean, and that that's kind of like there were nodes before there, you know, with a little commercial a corner
store or something. Yes. Because people didn't have cars or there was only one car per household. Yep. So if you know if you ran out of milk, someone had to be able to walk the corner store because the person with the
car was at work and wouldn't be home for another six, seven hours. All right. Well, thank you very much for um I think uh enlightening discussion. It's been
nice to have a discussion. So I do have one more question. Is what you did with us today the similar what we'll do on June 9th with be much more structured on June 9th. Yeah. Yeah. Same question though. Thoughtful responses, right?
Engaging the idea and you've got a hint of what where I'm going with the agenda. Uh this is my what I would call an internal working agenda. We will have a handout agenda as well. Um
but but the idea is to have a Gordon is to have a thoughtful discussion. Yeah. Because I really think how you reach understanding is through conversation and listening and you know finding
where you may disagree or have differences and but also finding out where there's common bonds and common threads. Yep. And and quite frankly we need more of that in our civic life. Yeah. For sure.
Yes. Okay. Great. Well, thank you very much for Yes. coming tonight. Thank you for all your time as well. I appreciate it for your colleagues uh of the in the public as well. Great. Um we do have some other business. So, you're welcome
to stay, but I may leave, but I have I have a bit of a drive. I thought about taking the train, which would have been much more comfortable, but I didn't know how late we were going to go. Well, and also the train unfortunately does not run only once an hour or so. So, where's
where's home? At 9:00, it's a decent again. I didn't know how late we were going. Yeah. Good. Well, thank you so much. Yeah. She didn't talk about the train is the focal point of the downtown. Yeah.
My downtown. Oh, yeah. So, um, thank you and we will be in touch about confirming the You want a new one? I don't want to see yours. No cheating. Okay. You just traced yours.
You traced mine. All right. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Yeah, thank you. All right, great. Uh, good discussion everybody. Thank you very much. Um, we don't always have quite so much fun,
but we will. Um, we didn't want I'm unclear on whether we decided June we're going to go for we're you have to check the space. Yeah. To be determined. Um Mark, you
want to talk about the onetop grant? And so the onetop grant um is we're putting together I have a draft of it. Was going to send it out, but I didn't quite get a chance to finish
doing an edit to it. I wanted to do a first edit. So I will probably send it out tomorrow afternoon that people can read and send back any comments. But basically it is um a more detailed look at what we've been talking about. Um you
know how do we implement you know this the end of this project will give us kind of a big outline of tasks right things that we can do once we find figure out what everybody's vision is not just six of you but the
other boards committees Kathy compiles a report and puts together kind of a the list of what she's heard that people would like how to how to implement ments some of these things. Um, but this takes it to the next level where we we bring
in consultants uh to really look at if if it's the way I think it's going to head toward where we want a more attractive downtown. We want to incorporate more visitors to extend um our business
community and seasons and other things and support uh multiple businesses. Uh we need to change the zoning to allow that, not just u so that's a little bit
more of a of a project to to do so. And so it would be to bring in a consultant to do that. Also to to put together kind of a updated streetscape plan for the downtown um which
incorporates some of what's in part phase one that was built almost 20 years ago and some elements are really quite good. and how do we carry some of those elements through into phase two and what
would we change um in both areas? So, um, so we would hire an engineering firm and landscape. Literally, VHP was the engineering firm that did everything you just said. Streetscape, roadway, curb block things, bumpouts, blah, blah,
blah. That's that's a 20-year-old plan. No, no, no. It's it's a year too old. What? Year too old. I It That's why I joined the downtown improvement is to manage that. So, um, do I think it needs to be
relooked at? I do. But, but understand that a lot of energy has already gone into it. Yeah. No, I understand. Oh, but I think um I think Yeah, I think um because I did look at that little phase two set of
drawings. There were there were sketches. They were Yeah. Yeah. That's unsatisfactory. Exactly. Exactly. That's what I That's the only that's what I've seen. So my but my point is is that that needs to be
done in a much more involved in um manner to bring it to 25% design drawings. Once you get it to 25% design drawings, then you can apply for Massworks funding to help pay for this.
you don't bring it to that level, you're not going to get um those that it'll be less likely that you're going to get that funding. Also, that helps bring the details of the plan.
um everything from where there might be curb changes, parking changes, the picking lights and lamps and all those types of things get looked at in that high level of detail that you really want them to be looked at and I did not
see that in that it wasn't it was it was very right because that's that's the world I lived in for 40 years. Yes. And so when I saw the drawings that were being prepared, it was a a little scarce. And yes, they were led by the public works department. By the way, we
didn't we didn't manage it. It was all public works. So this would be uh you know a a much more involved project. And so it would be done in coordination kind of with the zoning and the whole look at
the downtown. So Okay. Um Sandy, yes, I have a newbie question here. So there's there's um the downtown there's the master plan which is about 10 years old. I'm trying to understand what the documents are people. So there's the
master plan which is about 10 years old which Susan did with and then there is a dip 2.0 downtown improvement project is the one that was done down downtown. You saw it. It's got the granite curves and
granite walkways on a portion of the downtown area. 2.0 is extending it all the way through the everything that showed up in Mark's drawing. Okay. Wait a minute. So, so there is a plan that
existed a couple years ago that you were involved in managing and then that has been updated subsequently. That's exactly. Oh, okay. So there's two things. Phase one was done. It's built. Phase one is done a long time ago. I think
Mark's thinking that phase one needs to be refreshed. Refreshed. Oh, I agree. So phase one needs some That's exactly That's exactly the thought process we had when we did phase two. Some things worked, some things didn't. Uh is it are
the master plan? I have the downtown improvement. I do not. Is that available online? downtown improvement plan. I approve. I believe I might have the page. We should get that. We should get it. I can show
it to you. I can bring it in. It would be great to have a copy. It was done by the VHB, the engineers uh and uh the they were good, but they were led by public works department. So, it had a def very definitely an engine
bent to it. As much as I kept saying, you know, this is not enough. This is a straight line when in fact straight lines don't work. I mean, this we need to think about design. It was designed on a desktop rather than was it a desktop design kind of it was
it was loose. They they put the standard sections of roadways and curb sections and bumpouts and stuff, but it wasn't okay. It wasn't a level of detail. We were nowhere near going out to anybody for any price for approvals because it
just wasn't there. Right. It was it was a good picture. It was where does it exist? Um I'm looking I might have a PD. I can get it from downtown. We need to get that. So I think one of the this is sort of the longer term
vision for the part of the planning piece. Um Mark, I am going to push a little bit on the it being the precursor to the zoning. Yes. Because I feel we and we can talk about whether others agree, but
I feel like we could do some I'm really interested to see what Kathy recommends for some of the nearer term um kinds of things even and I'm pretty open to to doing our zoning stuff in two phases or three phases. We have to as we
understand the issues but nonetheless I think um the idea is that the state would fund this. Is it a 100% funding or is it a one a uh match? Well they they would like probably to see about a 10%
contribution. So how much is the So it would probably be about $150,000. So we would need to spend So our planning board budget is 25,000 a year. Yes. So that would um take up 15,000 of
our planning board budget to get 150,000 of of planning work done. Um so um can I ask you a question mark? 150,000 buys you what? Um the the work
of planning of the team consultant team of the consultant team which would probably include the engineer and the landscape architect and the planner. street produce those um you
know drawings for the streetscape produce the zoning changes actually produce documents that we can then take the next step whether it's the daily meeting or for additional depth which is these aren't building they're not
buildable documents are they yeah% that's That's fairly pretty substantial. Wow. He lives in a different world than I did. 25% is the schematic design. So Mark's sorry.
The 15,000 of planning board money um gets us to a point where we can apply for the rest of the grant. Yes. And I mean everything I'm reading is that these grants are becoming harder and harder to get based on um you know
what's going on in the world and what happened with uh Tux Point with the rotunda too. I just want to be careful that that doesn't happen again. Right. So I mean if we don't receive the grants then we yeah in the fall we will still
have our full 25,000 so that if we want to pursue um you know bring in just planning consultants like we had today to refine some some additional zoning proposals
bring in landscape architect to work on I don't know some improvements to something or uh you know we can discuss what that would be. And again, you know, we would kind of have
more of a list of things to to look at and prioritize at the end of this sessions these sessions with Kevin. So um Okay. So So Mark um I is there any
economic development portion of this that can tell us that these these kinds of storefronts are feasible and these high-end restaurants aren't or whatever. Well, this isn't necessarily like a business development
type. No, I know. But if we don't have So, that's different. That's Well, the public aren't going to do squat for us if we don't have a viable economic development plan. I'm looking at the website. It's the Massachusetts downtown initiative technical grant assess
technical assistance program um is the single application portal and collective review process of community and economic development grant programs to make targeted investments based on development continuum. Um so it says it's about
downtown developments. though. What is the deadline? June 4th. Yes. To apply. Yes.
And that's all stuff that you will Yes. I'm working with Sue Crop our grants with And when will you know if the funds are will be printed? Generally it's
October end of October is when they do the grant announcements. So then you send hypers speed well they have a lot of applications for
more money than they actually have. The town has does not have any other applications being submitted at this time. So, it's a good year to submit something on behalf of Manchester.
Are there um uh deliverable requirements or you know do we have to pledge to do any particular I mean besides a a match of funds? No. Um I mean we're we're
representing that we're going to give product at the end of this project which is the drawings that we can forward with and um and zoning that we can bring to town
meeting. Does it help that we were in MBTA zoning community? Well, it means that we're still eligible to apply. Uh, if we hadn't basics, yeah, if we hadn't done that, we
could be Okay. I was hoping for a gold star. Um, so we haven't seen your draft yet. Um and you um it's your recommendation that we obviously that we apply for this and
that we use um our budget for the match. Um and you've have you been in touch with downtown Improvement to I just don't want to them to feel that this is Oh, I've I regularly go to their meetings.
about it at the meetings as well. Um so okay. Um so I guess I'll say is um our budget is 25,000 a year. We al we have generally not used it. I one of my items
for this year is to be sure to use our money. And this would actually be FY26 money, right? Yes. uh FY27. So, we're using up almost all of the funds that we had left over. We did use some of the funds for one of the
MBTA studies and so we balance most of the balance will be used for Cathy. Um so, but um the onetop grant starts in when January. Yes. So, you would pro we would probably
have contract signed in December. So, generally you start in January. So, I'm just trying to figure out if we um so it would be out of our 25,000 would leave us only 10 to do
um any other things that we needed to do this year like that that are going to cost money like more Kathy's time or Yeah. potentially there's um so
um when is June 4th? We don't meet before June 4th. So maybe we um uh have a motion to to support the um the submission of the one-stop grant for the downtown
improvement. I'd ask that um maybe Gordon and I, Gordon is member of the downtown improvement committee and I review the grant uh to before and and it uh and that the understanding is that we
would spend up to $15,000 as a match for the as a 10% of the um application. Does that make sense? Sure. I'll make that. I'll actually make that motion. Okay. Second. And I'll I'll second it.
Um, so the question is then the only way that money would be spent is if we get the grant, right? Right. So we would know October. We didn't get the grant then we could discuss how do we priority. Yeah. Right. So yeah, that's
an option. That's nice to know. So we have some flexibility. Yeah. Okay. Great. Um, any other discussion? Um, all in favor? I I post. Great. Thank you. Um, great. So, you'll get that to us and we'll three of us sit down just
go over it. Great. Um, okay. Um, so in your uh so you guys are going to get um town emails. We're going to do like a between now and soon we'll do kind of a primmer. Um and anybody else wants to come to talk about the um how
we use the um one uh Outlook and SharePoint. So um couple of things to remind everybody. Everything we do is public and um we have to be careful about uh group
editing of documents because that's deliberation. So while it's tempting to do comments on documents, we have to be careful about about that. So if I send out a document to everybody, you can reply back to me, but you can't go reply
reply to reply all or show comments. Oh, that you know if I comment on your comment then that's deliberation which is really you reply back to me and what I generally do is I will you know
um go through like a document in the comments that make sense to include. Sometimes people make several different points, but if I write some new section or paragraph that addresses several
points or just the language like we did with the you were on the MBTA task force uh like I did with that. So um not every single comment will be in there and of course then we'll be discussing it. So you can bring up why
wasn't this was my comment at the meeting or you'll see that it was addressed in a different way. So um okay yeah and if you have questions um don't hesitate to ask um right I am
trying in my single screen here to share something. So the next um item is um we so in your packet you got it by email but you may not have gotten it time
was a list of um here we go Sarah I have one quick procedural question before you move on and that is is there a packet that we should come it's on one it's all um you'll see it it's on on a SharePoint drive and so you
we we tend to do most everything in electronic versions with the exception of plans. It's nice when we have division sub uh reviewing plans to have a physical copy and those get put
downstairs across from the town clerk's um some mail. Yeah. So yeah. No, that's fine. Thank you. Ask any questions like that anytime. Um
procedural questions. You can always you call. Um, so in the packet we're um Chris had started the ball rolling on the list of things that um we might
um do this year. Um we uh and we don't need to go over this right now. What I might do is just give us a one sentence uh on on each of these. I think we've talked a lot about the downtown
visioning um tonight. Housing production plan is a requirement of the state and that's going to require the state of funds, right? Uh a requirement for for the housing production plan. Don't we have it's paid
for have to pay CBC's plan for paid for by CBC funds. Okay. So that is um so I have I have one quote I need to get because of the cost I need to get two more quotes. So okay before someone is selected but that's a process that goes
through the planning board. Um it needs to be adopted um well the plan needs to be updated with 2020 census which is why it's a little more extensive update than the previous update. Um and then it needs to get
adopted reviewed and adopted by the planning board then by the select board before it gets submitted for to the state for review and comment. But in terms of our timing our time it doesn't take huge amounts of our time. It doesn't take huge amounts but when we
get to the point of actually reviewing it it will take some some time. Yes. and and the consultant was probably going to come in and like can take an hour of a meeting here or there as as they work through it. So So other
projects that we've talked about over the last couple of years and have done some work on um a demolition delay which really sits with historic commission but can work with them on that. senior housing. We actually have drafted several senior housing bylaws um that uh
we could dust off and and uh move forward. Uh we've talked about downtown reszoning. Um if you look up on the screen, if you can't if you don't have it in front of you, um uh the revision of forms and fees and revision of rules
and regulations. Um I think a lot of that can be done by Mark. Um, we had an interim planner who started that, but it it still needs to be done. Driveway regulations um have a long history and remain uh problematic.
We need to tidy those up. um drainage review for um lots uh how how we deal with storm water coming off of um of uh lots and then um ongoing zoning bylaw
edits in general typos or small things that we can probably advance some of those. Um cluster zoning is a we actually have a bylaw written um that we could take another look at if we wanted to. We have
a cluster by bylaw. Cluster bylaw is a the um group housing together and keep open space um in Manchester that requires five acres. Five acres and there aren't any five acre parcels to do it on. So, right. So, it's sort of a point. So, we actually had revised that
and for a bunch of reasons get it get it over the finish line. Um there are two there are two districts around the heater. um Pine Street, Pleasant Street, School Street, um D1 and D2, they have different requirements. There's the MBTA zoning
um process identified some flaws in the way they were written and described and got translated from an old version of the zoning into the new zoning. So, probably a pretty simple fix. Um but uh
um and then um I added a few other things that have come up. uh clear cutting of lots. I know Peter has talked about um I think commercial conversions to residential and site plan review for that. We need to appoint associate
members and I'd like to have Sorry, can I ask something about the associate man? I know you talked about that the last meeting. So, um you had asked us to think about Yeah. candidates. Is there is there like a um a list of criteria or
is it the same as the planning board pretty much? Okay. So, we're just looking for someone that's and we have actually three people who have expressed interest. We need two. So, yeah, it's not um so we have to do that. It's be a formal request. Yeah. And then and then
remind me they will come to every meeting or have their choice. We can sort of pick and choose which ones. They got to be on standby call plan review. When we have applications, they need to be consistently at meetings because
that's the whole purpose, right? Absences. Okay. Yeah, that's yeah, special permanence thing. Okay. Um I want to talk about a communications policy and practice. Um and we I would like to to so suggest that we do some
training and uh budget um and consultant use. So um those are among the things that we um and then the things that we already completed lots of zoning changes. Sorry Sarah one and this isn't being flippant but do we have a
communication process? We don't. Okay that's okay. No I just wanted to Yeah. Thanks. um for a bunch of reasons, but I think I wasn't being I think the time has come. I think it's not that hard. Just following. Oh, I think so.
Um and then it's really important to say, you know, we in the last year we did MBTA zone last two years, three years, we did a whole slew of zoning updates, MBTA zoning, accessory dwelling units, flood plane, site plan review,
associate members. So, we've we've made a lot of progress. Um, so but got a lot still to do halfway through. So, I learned a fun fact in looking at the master plan. Yes. That do you know when the zoning bylaws were originally drafted? 1948. And do you know when they
were first updated? 1987. 78. 78. And according to the master plan which is 2017 between 1978 and 2017 there have been 80 approximately 80 changes. I think we've done 80%.
It's all seems to be and they're all needed too. Yeah. Yes. there. It's like a wilderbeast. So many of our zoning bylaws are put were entered into the zoning by citizens petitions
which is partly why sometimes they have illegal stuff and um there are a lot of citizens petitions. So but can I add one more thing? This is what I was thinking about. I know we've talked about a lot. Who actually
enforces decision we made? has enforced. Yes, please. Yes, that that becomes and I thought about two examples. 208 Summer Street here, that rock pile, how that ever going to turn into what he expected to turn and also sell signaling actually
maybe arranging a site visit with them just to go see what see what it looks like. I drove by today as wondering that and um you drove up into the I drove I didn't I drove as far as I could without
requesting permission but um I want So one of the things for you is have you been up there? Not recently. Have you checked to see if they have their website up and with a contact person that's required by the special permit? And then I'm
uh wanting to make sure we have the money. I'm $1.3 million. Yeah, that's um that sounds good. That sounds good. So part of the communication process should be exactly this, right? Is how you follow up on these decisions. That's
yeah, that's a different communication. I think that's followup. Enforcement followup are Yeah. two things. So another followup item is at the compost site. the site plan conditions that we
impose have not been done. We asked for some uh vegetative border along the edge. I think it may be unreasonable given the compaction there and other things but that can't be just ignored even by the town. So those kinds of
things we should there's there um on communication I'm thinking of how do we respond to phase foot to the public's interest in particular projects like cargo or the pine street and I have some ideas about that. So there was a
discussion about um we can parse the I think you had asked and we've talked at length before about trying to set priorities. You can't there's no way we're going to get all this done this year. um and who's going to do how how they're going to get done. You know, we're going to have Mark do some of
them. We're going to collectively do some of it. Um and some of it doesn't need a lot of deliberations. It's kind of common sense, I think. So, do we want to have a retreat? Yeah. Do we I'll add my list and the things we just talked about to the project list. Um and we had
talked about having a retreat. Um Sue and I are both opposed to a Saturday or Sunday, but um what I thought I would do is set out a um like a doodle poll to say when it's good um for a week night where we really kind of talk through not
the details of these things, but which of these things we think are most important, how we're going to get them done, and kind of lay them out on a calendar. I do a meeting calendar um that you know work and I talk about and like what we're going to do at each meeting so we can kind of try to
accomplish things um and you know the the deadlines um that come up. We can anticipate that you and your comrades are going to have a site plan review up there on Pine Street in our first
multifamily housing. Me and my comrades. Yes. design review team. Oh. Oh, that. Oh, the uh So, we have to think a little bit about how we're going to do that to do with Gary.
Is Gary on that committee? Yes, Gary and Chuck. That's good. I like I like talking. So, um you know, things like that. So, you're you know, we we kind of need to lay those things out. And um So, does the retreat is that have to be in
public, too? Okay. But I think we would not anybody could come on the retreat. I think we would do it um it would be posted. We would do it in a different place and we would not have Zoom. Yeah. Just the way we've done in the past. And yes, if somebody wants to come and sit
at Tux Point or some place. When will this happen? Sooner the better. Yeah, sooner the better. Um, I'm gonna I think I rather than trying to look at calendars right now, I'll do a um a doodle poll to uh find out when people are available if that makes sense. I'd
also like to invite the new town administrator to come meet with us. Yeah, we'll certainly meet with us whether we invite him to the retreat or not. I don't know. I guess need to worry about worry too much about D1 D2 right off the bat. So maybe
um I don't expect you to know what all that those things mean. Don't worry. Um it's okay. Um and um right it is okay. I will agree with that don't worry part.
I'm not sure I have the meeting packet. So but um yeah. So I think we'll um uh pause on that if that's okay. We so that will be the next step on that. Um there
was a little bit of correspondence, some public hearings, but um uh um but now what I need is a motion to enter executive session provide pursuant
to general laws chapter 30A section 21A1 regarding an open meeting law complaint from Shannon Slaughter Esquire on behalf of Timothy McDonald and Elizabeth Kinder dating dated May 5th, 2025
um to acknowledge the receipt, review the complaint, and consider the response. Um and executive session uh pursuant to the same general law to discuss strategy with respect to pending litigation.
Um because uh the chair has declared that an opium meeting may be detrimental to the litigation portion um of the of the planning board. McDonald and Kinder versus planning board land court docket
number 25 Selenius 0000270 and we will return to open session. I'll take a motion to that effect, please. So moved. Second. Second. Um, I need to take a roll call vote, I believe, for executive session.
So, Sandy Berner, yes. Yes. Wharton. Yes. Gordon. Sarah votes. Yes. Chris Brian Fry. Um, I need to share this. Do we end the Zoom? Hold on. And end the
broadcast. Is there a broadcast? No. So, now what we need to do is um I'm gonna unreport stuff.