Are we live? The Maple Shade Township Zoning Board of Adjustment October the 8th, 2025 meeting will now come to order. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. This meeting has been advertised in accordance with the open public meetings act. Roll call, please.
Mr. Stevens, here. Mr. McDonald, here. Miss Kasarati, here. Mr. Dura, here. Miss Mortimer, here. Miss Debich here. Miss Valentino present. Miss Raid present. Chairman Gates here.
Okay. So the only I didn't hear Frank so I guess Oh yeah. Uh Miss Reeves and Mr. Mazar both called and said that they are to attend. Okay. Okay. New business. 211 South Fellowship
Road, lot 155, lot 16. Marissa Rap Rapelli. Yes, they come close. Okay, good Irish name. ZB211 R2 residential district vacant commercial space former blade and me
metal sharpening proposed use vintage boutique application change of use variance. Hi folks, we're going to have you sworn in. Would you raise your right hand, please? Are you going to say anything?
Okay. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you give tonight will be the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth? I did. Now, I know you went through this at site plan, but you have to explain to the board what we would like to do. Okay. Okay. So, while I was in college, I
started up a small business reselling vintage clothing. Could you move that microphone a little closer to you? Perfect. Reselling vintage clothing. And essentially what I'm going to be doing is that, but on a larger scale, hopefully at the boutique. Um, so it's going to be curated stuff from vintage
ranging from like 70s to the early 2000s. Okay, that's it, huh? Yeah, essentially that's it. Okay. Oh, well, sorry. Um, there's also going to be like a thrift store aspect where it's a room where everything is $10 and under, but it's it's mainly vintage.
Yeah. Okay. Before I call on Fred, any questions, comments, concerns? Fred, you have a report for us. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do. And Mercy, you received a copy of our letter, right? Yes, I have. We had an opportunity to review it
today, earlier today. So, what I'd like to do is it's a very simple application as you just heard in a few sentences, but unfortunately, there is a use variance required. This is the R2 zone and this is a commercial use, so it is not permitted. So, they need a D1 variance. So, I'm just going to walk
through that quickly and we'll go back and forth. And there were a couple items that need to be addressed in the ordinance. Okay. such as ADA parking and those sort of things. So, so I just mentioned we're in the R2 residential district where the
use is not permitted. Um, but I understand there's a histories with the project that the site since being a little kid, there's always been a commercial use there. So, as a non-permitted use, the there are certain proofs that have to be met. So, I'm just going to run through those and
we can go back and forth what's required. there is a burden of proof on the applicant to prove that the proposed use does not have a negative impact on the community, that it fits in with the community, and that there are positives
to the neighborhood and so forth. So, in your own words again, um what you're proposing, will this have any negative impact being a commercial use in this neighborhood? Is there any concern with parking
uh on the neighborhood with traffic? Are you going to generate traffic that could create a problem for the neighborhood? Um just go through a little bit more about what you're doing, what you anticipate as hours, what you anticipate is volume of people.
Are we going to have parking on the streets? Is this going to disrupt the neighborhood? And will this be a use that's utilized by the community or is this utilized by people on YouTube or you know all different various Yeah. social media?
Gotcha. So um for traffic wise when I was at school I would typically get about four customers in an hour and the lot has nine spots including the two in front of the garage. Um so I think that would be perfectly fine with parking and that wouldn't really cause
any traffic issues. Um, overall I think that Maple Shade is just like such a charming and vibrant community and I think that this would just add a little bit of extra charm and it would give um it would give the people something fun to do. I know a lot of people miss Urban
Promise Thrift um which shut down this past year so it would kind of fill that hole and I would also hope that it would bring in new people to see Maple Shade who otherwise otherwise might not have. Right. And I I really don't see it negatively impacting the community in
any way. And and is there a hardship on the community as a result of this or is this location always been a commercial property? You're not converting into a commercial property. You have a commercial property, right? Yes. Yes, it's currently commercial. Well, it's it looks commercial. There's
nothing going on currently, but um it is historically I believe one of the neighbors told me it was called Joe's and it was a corner My bad. It was called John's and it was some sort of corner store and then it was Hunter Doors and then my dad came in
and he had his um blade sharpening and now I hope that I can turn it into the vintage boutique. So you would be promoting the same type of mixed use that's has been in the store or the building for the last 50 years or more I assume. Is that some
people how old was that store? A long time ago. Long time ago. Yes. So, so with that, I think we understand that this fits in with the neighborhood. This is consistent with our master plan. It has always been here. This I I assume
possibly even since the building was constructed. I don't know, but what I'm hearing is a big historical use of commercial on this site. So, in going through and I'll just briefly hit these uh meets the intent and purpose of our
zone is consistent. And I think in hearing what the applicant is proposing, knowing the history of the site, this is consistent with what we've had in Maple Shade. We've gone through numerous master plan revisions since and no one has identified this site as a concern.
So here I'm finding it would be again consistent with our master plan. Uh will the use intentionally distract or deter from the community? And obviously your testimony is it's consistent and will promote a neighborhood atmosphere.
Yeah. Okay. Very good. It'll be very quaint. Okay. And the next the next uh level or trigger would be does it meet the best intentions for maple shade uh and bringing in diversity with different
commercial uses. Obviously that would meet that that goal. Yes. I I think as I said um there's currently there's there's space for this coming in
because of um like I said the the previous thrift store shut down and I I think that it'll be great for people to have like a nice cheap place to shop and it will also promote sustainability in Maple Shade. Oh, that's wonderful. Okay. So, it is in the best interest of Maple Shade in
accordance with the testimony. Um the effect on We don't have to go through all this public service facilities. There's going to be no impact on water, sewer. I can't imagine there's an impact on our police or fire other than any other u house or structure in Maple
Shad. It is a residential type structure. Uh then it goes through our our own code goes through to identify that the zoning board should be guided in its study, review and recommendation of sound standards and subi or subdivision practices were applicable.
So again, I think again the sound practice of bringing commercial back to a commercial site that's been there for a long long time. Uh beyond that, I would just like to hit a few requirements that are in our comment section and the first one we had we had
spoken about was signage and Kyle I had mentioned that briefly. Uh I don't believe you have a detail of what you're proposing now but you will coordinate with Mr. Wagner and the township has standards and we can provide those standards to you. If you find they don't
meet your need because we want you to improve the corner just as you want to improve the corner. Uh please don't hesitate to deal with Kyle and possibly even come back to this board should you want a larger sign, a longer sign or you know a higher sign. So feel feel free
with that to again coordinate with Kyle and he'll give you all the guidance. Okay. Thank you. Let me interrupt you a second. Do you have any signs in mind at this time? Currently, we have a poll and it has like a I apologize a very tiny sign on it. I'm hoping to do maybe something
from the sign but a little bit wider so it's more noticeable. Okay. If not, I'm also open to a large a yard sign. Um so what Fred is saying is that if you want to make a larger sign and it could still uh conform to what the code says, but just check it out with Kyle.
Okay. We we obviously want you to be successful. So if it's two inches over, they're the things we wouldn't worry about, but you would have to come back to this board to uh for consideration if you did exceed the standard. So Okay. Okay. I I just know that if this is something
she's looking to do and six inches higher or lower doesn't really make a difference in our in our master plan or anything. So And you may want signage in your window, you know. Yeah. So whatever your sign package is, just check it out with Kyle. Okay. They'll direct you where you have
to go if you have to go anywhere. Okay. Awesome. Well, one thing we cannot get around is ordinance 20567 C and that's the 88 parking requirements and access into your facility as well as you'll ultimately have to deal with the construction code official and Kyle for
interior, but this is for the exterior. So, you would be required to have one ADA parking stall. What that requires under the guidelines, the federal guidelines is a sign. and I can get you the details of the signage that's required. There's two signs, uh, a
penalty plate as well as the ADA sign and the pavement markers. And again, I can provide you those details or any signage place or striping place would have that information. Uh, and then there's there's a certain grade that has to be provided
uh, that's flat. It's less than 2%. The survey you submitted, there were grades on there, but I couldn't read them. So, if we could speak to whoever had done your survey, we could get that information. It looks relatively flat, so maybe we'll be okay. And the only reason I bring that up,
these are federal guidelines, and I don't want to get you approved and then someone comes out and knocks on your door and says, "You violated somebody's civil rights." And yes, we don't want to deal with that. So, totally. I want to by the book ADA parking spot out there when Hunter Door had it.
Uh, that I don't know, but there is not one right now. Okay. There wasn't. And uh there's not there wasn't one when I had my business there. Did you have customers come to your store? Yes, you did. Okay. How'd you get around that?
I don't know. I remember. I don't think it was mentioned before. It wasn't mentioned when I came for the variance. No, I would have done it. Well, now you get a chance. Hey, I'm handicapped.
I don't mind. Unfortunately, those even ADA standards and guidelines change the 2% grade is something that came in not that long ago. Uh so it's it is changing and evolving. So as right I I didn't know if it would be just an enhancement to what was there or
whether they had to install a new one because nothing was there. That's they would have to stall a new one. So uh the next item was lighting. I guess what are you proposing as far as lighting? Our ordinance requires that parking areas uh have sufficient
lighting. I don't know your hours of operation. Could I don't know if you mentioned it. I apologize, but could you tell us what your hours and days of operation are going to be? Um I'm still working that out. Right now I'm hoping to have Monday off. Um and
then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I'll likely be open 9 to 7. Okay. And then on the weekends It still needs a little bit of thought. I apologize. Well, it'll be in the dark, though. Sure. It's going to be in the dark at
seven. Sure. We have one light there now puts out. And we just uh met with uh a local electrician today, right, to talk about a second, right? So, it'll be uh very well illuminated. Okay. My my concern is sometimes when you say
well illuminated, we don't want to be too well illuminated. I understand. Uh yeah, in Maple Shade, as with most municipalities, we're looking for down lighting. Uh they're lights you could even buy at a Home Depot or something. And again, they're lights that would possibly installed on the second floor and just project down
and out to cover your parking spaces. Uh the light you have now is kind of a round and it probably glares everywhere. But if you could look at something with your electrician that's just a down lighting wall mount, I think you would be fine. One or two of those units would cover you. Yeah, I I think your
electrician will know if you just tell him he want down light, he'll know what to uh show you. Yeah, he was very knowledgeable today in dealing with He suggested we put it um between the two windows in the parking lot, like
between the three and the two. Yeah. So, we have a spot in mind. Just want to make sure your front door, the walkway area is well lit. Yeah. Remember I said you said you're still working out your hours. Yes. Um, I have a rough idea. Um, I'm hoping during the week it'll be more
condensed hours because I'm assuming people will likely not have as much time to shop. And the best thing for your application is to say the maximum you think that it may be. Okay. Okay. Because if you say something shorter than that and then you find out that you
want to go a little longer, your resolution doesn't cover that. You have to come back. So give the maximum and Mr. Kingsbury will want to put that in his Gotcha. Thank you. Um I would say 10 to seven.
Every day. There you go. You're covered. Okay. The next item is sometimes a sensitive subject is waste disposal. So could you just explain to us what type of waste may be produced as a result of
your business, where you would store it, how you would dispose of it, and even maybe speak to the resident upstairs. There's an apartment on the second floor of this this unit, I think, believe a twobedroom apartment. Uh how that how it operates now and how
you will propose it up. Um so the way that I get my inventory, I get all of my stuff from estate sales and thrift stores. So, I really won't have any sort of like packaging waste. So, there really shouldn't be anything large that needs to get disposed of. It should just be, you know, like the
bathroom trash cans, food wrappers, stuff like that. Um, and with the current tenant upstairs, they have one bin and we have one bin. So, each week we've been putting out two. I would say though um once construction starts I'll obviously be generating a
decent amount of waste but for that we would just um get like junk removal. Okay. So on the waste disposal obviously we have ordinances and and codes. How would that be handled Mr. Kingsbury? Would there be a request for relief of
having a trash enclosure? You're asking me an engineering question. No, I I guess we're looking at You can ask him a law question. Well, we we would have to You're actually would be required to have a a
waiver. We have a board required. It's required unless they grant a waiver, right? So, I would think So, are you saying that you think that they need a dumpster? No. I believe that every site per our code would be required to have an enclosure area. And so what I'm
suggesting is that the applicant request a waiver based on her testimony. So but if it's a trash can and you wheel it behind your garage and offsite, you still need for a commercial business. It's required to have an enclosure area. So I would
ask that the applicant may want to consider asking for a waiver. Okay, I get it. Can pick up commercial waste or just residential? Residential. Question. Susan would know that. Does our hauler pick up commercial waste? Does not pick up commercial waste
in that area? No. Okay. So, when the stores on Main Street put out their trash cans, they only pick up commercial waste in on Main Street. Okay. How about for the apartment?
So, we would have the apartment have used the regular and then we would have to get a commercial for the store. by code. By code, by code, unless you were going to have a private hauler,
take it away. Minimal waste, lunch, most likely lunch waste and paper towels, paper napkins, any excess clothing will be donated. Uh, so you know, there won't be any waste that way. So, so I do believe you should ask for a waiver.
Would I ask for that now? Yes. Yes, that would be good. Can I have a waiver? Could I please have a waiver? Okay, good matters. Great question. Mr. Chairman, based on the testimony, I would I would recommend that the waiver be considered. There you go.
The next second your own motion. We have um again, we've heard most of the testimony, the number of employees. I don't know if we heard number of employees. I know it's going to be yourself obviously. Um it goes back to the parking. We have the residence
upstairs, which requires two parking stalls. Oh. Uh they they have one car. Yes. But are they like required? That's Yes, they're required. They're required to have two because there's two bedrooms. Can I have a waiver? No. How many parking spaces do you have?
Um we have nine. Okay. And how many square feet is your structure? It is a little under 900. No, no, just the first floor is 900 square feet. Okay. Well, so they would be required to have five plus the two for the residential. Do
they have sufficient parking on site? I just want that to be on the record that there's sufficient park. So there's nine spaces and two of them are for the residents. That's correct. That leaves her with um seven. Seven, right? And required is five per
thousand. Okay. So she's over. She's over. We're in good shape. No waiver required there. Well, we were ready to request one. Okay. So the last item I have, Mr. chairman is really regarding um
typically we would be asking for a site plan, but given that the site has been there this long, we've heard all the testimony that we have, I would recommend a waiver of site plan subject to providing that grading information for the ADA and that they install the ADA requirements and light.
Susan has provided us a picture of scroll in So, which one would be the ad? The one where pickup is. It's It's supposed to be the closest to the door. Okay. Is that building next to you? Is that a
house or a That is the garage. Yeah. What is this? It's a garage. There's a house behind. There's a garage for this property. Yes. For this property. Oh, okay. But there's a house on the other side, right? Yeah.
We have a very good relationship. Who uses that neighbor? So there there is a light right here and it's just exposed and shine everywhere and refracts. So my suggestion is maybe putting a light there and a light up just a down light that sticks out.
Talk to your electrician and I'm sure that would be more than sufficient to cover the area. That's one apartment upstairs. Yes, one apartment. The garage is used by May. I make pens to keep myself busy. since I've had to
retire. And that's all I have, Mr. Chair. That's all. Does that apartment have its own access? Yes, sir. You don't have to go through the No, they have the staircase over there. Yeah. Up through there. Yeah. Right there, brother.
Yeah. Right there. There's a back stairs. And actually, the trash is in there's like a gate there and the trash is behind that. It's not exposed. Okay, Fred, thank you. Uh, any questions, comments?
Besides, uh, you said you're going to be picking up your inventory from, um, estate sales and thrift shops. Is anybody going to be dropping off clothes or anything to you? Like customers, they want to drop off something, will you accept it? Yes, I'll accept donations.
So, would you need like a a box or something for them if If you're not open, would you accept them to bring things to you? Um, I wouldn't take donations while I'm not there, but if they come during store hours, I would gladly take them. And if someone did leave something, which they
shouldn't, I'll likely have a sign that says, "Please, please only I I think we should make it very clear in the ordinance that we don't want people dumping things off outside." No. And I know you don't want that either, but let's make that very clear. There's no people leaving things behind like you
do in a parking lot. Yes. Well, right. You can't encourage it, but also people do what people want to do. Yeah. So, from time to time that may occur and you just have to take it off the street as quickly as you can. Yes. Yes. I live about 10 minutes away,
so I'll have cameras. And if you want to dispose of any clothes, Vietnam vets were always looking to pick it up. Okay. Awesome. Make a phone call and they pick it up and they give you a thing. She's also looking at women's shelters uh for
the excess. Yeah. That's nice. Very nice. Okay. Any other questions, comments, concerns, issues? Okay. I'm going to open up this application to the general public. If
there's anyone in the general public who would like to speak for or against this application, please identify yourself. Wow, you're in trouble now. Okay, I'm going to close the public portion of the meeting. I'm going to
come back to the board members and see if they have any final comments. And if not, if they would like to make a motion. The motion would be to grant a use variance for the uh store with a site
plan waiver subject to the engineers requirements for lighting and trash. And is that one motion, Robert? Yes, you can do it in one motion. I make definition. Okay. Motion Mike. Michael seconded by Lou.
Roll call, please. Hold on. Find a name. Sorry. Okay. Got it. Miss Bevage, approve. Miss Kazarati, approved. Mr. McDonald, approved. Miss Mortimer,
approved. Mr. Stevens, approved. Miss Valentino, approved. Mr. Zera, approved. Miss Ray, approved. Chairman Gay, approved. Well, you did a good job. You had a unanimous vote in your favor.
There is a 45day right of appeal though. Somebody could appeal our decision. If you do anything within those 45 days, you're doing so at your own risk. And it's a commercial establishment, so I'm not sure the six months applies. Uh in this case,
uh no, it's a use variance. So the um 45day appeal period doesn't start until the resolution's adopted. So, so it's like 75 years. Okay. So, would that mean
But look at the number of people who spoke against you. Yeah. So, you probably have some things to do to start. Yeah. Getting ready. Okay. Yes. Yes. You'll just have to know that within that period of time there could be somebody.
Although I don't expect that it could happen, you know. Okay. So, good luck. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you. Good luck with everything. Thank you. Have a great night. Thank you. Good luck to you. Yes. Item number two, 2910, Route 73 North,
block 172, lot one, 1.01, 1.02, and 1.04, 04 Deerfield Deerfield Associates Fox Meadow application ZBA 2322 previously ZBA23-06
zone PD plan development existing use Fox Meadow apartment complex proposed use Fox Meadow apartment complex replacement of existing soil waste and recycle containers application minor site plan approval
and variance relief for placement of the existing solid and recycling containers throughout the complex. Good evening, Mr. Gentlemen. Good evening. You're double teaming us with lawyers. I'm I'm hoping that we hear good luck as well.
Um your name, sir. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Um my name is Tom Coleman. I'm partner with the firm of Raymond Coleman and Hold. I have with me uh my fellow attorney Chuck Patron and I have a number of witnesses.
I have uh Mr. Kosco with me here um who will provide engineering testimony. Um if if Mr. Chairman we we get that far, right? Um the application before you this evening and thank you Mr. Chairman
for mentioning the the block and lot. The application before you this evening is for a minor site plan amendment and variance approval for the replacement of solid waste and recyclable uh containers
with 18 new um solid waste and recyclable containers that will cont enclose three four and five uh containers. the the applicant has been meeting with the township and the county uh to
develop um a more streamline aesthetic uh and improved plan for the removal of solid waste and recyclables. Th this project clearly promotes the health, safety, and general welfare not only of the residents of of Fox Meadow,
but all the town's residents. The construction of these uh new enclosures and containers will result in a loss of 37 parking spaces. We had originally prep proposed only the loss
of 17 spaces but um as a result of uh a productive meeting with the advisory uh board. They suggested that an additional 20 spaces be lost in order to make the traffic flow just better.
Um I I think it would be beneficial um just to to to let the board know of just a a couple particular issues before we get started with any testimony. Okay. Um, and I'm going to refer to to Fred's
October 6 letter. Okay. In in in the letter, Fred perfectly included a number of photographs and comments about the trash enclosure. A number of years ago, um, my client built what we call a a prototype
enclosure, uh, cinder block columns, different material. um that that prototype is no longer an option. Um period, end of story. And and
and the reason why, and you'll you you could hear this from our our uh general manager, on-site general manager, is the cost of building that uh times 18. The cost at the time was $30,000 for the
smallest, and that was a year and a half ago to two years ago. the cost of additional improvements that are being required by the Maple Shade Township Police Department for safety and security and the cost for
foundational plannings which have been ongoing and will continue make the the the reproduction of that prototype times 18 cost prohibitive. So the enclosure that you see on the planes in front of
you is what's proposed. Okay. Um perhaps the biggest issue. Could we take a moment and certainly see what they look like? Certainly. We're going to use as few of these as possible.
They're big. I know they were um and and Mr. Chairman, if if we could have this uh Bob marked as exhibit A1. Okay. You're saying the enclosure and I see an aerial here. Is there a
description, a picture of a individual enclosure? Um so I can keep up with what you're saying. I wanted to skip to the to the landscaping because that's going to
really drive whether we go forward this evening or not. But um Bob, why don't we have Mr. Bosco sworn in swear affirm testimony you give will be the truth. Truth Mr.
Um, Greg, before you um proceed, I I I know you've appeared before this board and I know you represent uh a number of public entities in New Jersey, but maybe there's some board members that don't know about your credentials. So, can you tell the board briefly who you are and
and why you're qualified to provide the testimony this evening? Sure. Um, my name is Gregory Busco and the president of Key Engineers. Could you hear that, Gregory, please? I've worked I've worked for key engineers. I'm actually in my 43rd year. I started
right out of college. Uh I have a professional license in three states in Delaware Valley. I've held my New Jersey license since 1988. And uh I've appeared before this board, the Maple Shape Planning Board, and many many other planning boards in New Jersey
uh over the years to provide professional testimony regarding site plans and subdivisions. So yes, he's accepted. All I want to know is it Gregory or Greg? Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Hey, you works.
Pardon me. Hey, you work. That's right. Okay. Better than my mother used to call me rotten kid, so that works too. The chairman mentioned that you could on exhibit A1. Could could you show the enclosure the proposed enclosure? The
reason for that, Tom, you're making statements on the record about it's prohibitive now. So, I want to see what you're talking about. Okay. Okay. We're talking about A1, right? Yes, sir. I I've marked sheet
I've marked sheet 404 of our solid waste and recyclable enclosures liner site plan. Do we A1 Yes. Do you have a picture of it? An actual photo. Photo of what's there now and what you
propose? See, you're making an issue with respect to that enclosure. So, I would like to see it in reference to that issue, right? Check. Is it this one here? Is it this? That's the one they're not using.
Black and whites are not very clear, right? This is the one they're not using. So, so, so expensive, ma'am. Ma'am, that that's the one that's the prototype that I previously referenced. Okay. This is the one in the but don't want correct. So, do you have a picture of the one you
do want? Yeah. The one that's out there now is the one you don't want. Is that That's the prototype. Okay. And then and that's the one that costs a lot of 30,000 for each of the cinder blocks
for that for the cinder block and the type of wall that was utilized the labor. We have some construction people in town would very much like to get that job. Should be up on the green. This is one Tom that's the prototype.
That's not what's there now. That one on site now. We the applicant constructed a prototype on site. Okay. And that is the three unit the three dumpster uh model enclosure. Yeah. Correct.
Okay. I'm confused. Is that existing or proposed? Existing now and was proposed but no longer is proposed. It was a prototype. Correct. They they build a prototype on site of what they proposed. They are no longer proposing that. I guess you have
a picture. So So Greg, could you explain how the new differs from this? Yeah. Do you have a picture of a new one? I I will. No, a new one has not been constructed. We We don't have approval to to do this.
No, but I mean, you proposed what it's going to look like. We do not have a photo. No. So, how do we know we're approving? I'm about to explain what Okay. that's going to be constructed. Help us out. We're all confused, so help us out.
Yeah. Okay. There there are three size trash enclosures that are being proposed. Okay. There's a trash enclosure that'll hold three six cubic yard bins. There's a trash enclosure that'll hold four and there's a trash enclosure that'll hold
five. Depending on the the needs in the particular area for recyclables and solid waste based on the site plan that we've provided, we feel we located these properly and that's how they're that's how they're uh the three different sizes
are oriented. Okay. The Greg, I have two questions. Okay. As you're describing this, that is a trash enclosure that's not enclosing anything. So, those that you're proposing, will the
trash enclosure actually be in the model or are they going to stick out like that? I I don't understand why those containers aren't in the enclosure. The intent is to have the containers, which are shaded in darker to be pushed back in right
the enclosure. We provided ballards in the back to position the container when the trash truck pushes it back in and places it. Why it's not like that? I I I don't have When I wrote by I I said uh nice enclosure. It ought to have something in
it. Again, I I don't My second question, not necessarily to you, but to Kyle. Kyle. Yes. When we had another commercial application in here with regard to enclosures and it cycled through the
site plan a number of times, the issue was that they didn't have a door on it so you could see the containers, you could see the trash and we spent a lot of time on that and I believe the end result will be if not it
right now will be that it will be foresighted. Is that correct? That is correct. Yeah, they need to have gates in front. doesn't apply here. It doesn't apply here. We did not propose gates on these these trash enclosures. We left them open and
and they're open in the facility. Now the prototype is open. These trash enclosures hold a large number of dumpsters. Okay. to try and place gate post in between so that the trucks can reposition the
sixyard bins back in from the ordinance that requires that. Right? That's what you're doing. This is an ordinance requires Yes. We we are not we are not proposing gates. We're asking for relief from you.
Yes. Uh, who's in charge or who makes the decisions for for engineering or label? Sir, for uh these dumpster sites? Mhm. What What's the question? And I
could get you the right answer. I drove through it today. Mhm. Or yesterday? I'm sorry. I don't know. Today or yesterday? Sure. It's a mess out there. Pardon? It's a mess out there. You have the old
structures. I don't know what they're made of, but they're all falling apart. You got four or five dumpsters in one spot and building 50, building 51. Well, you got numerous of them and you got two of them. They're sitting in the
middle of the road where car comes around there and I seen the way these people drive in there. they're going to cause an accident. Number two, we had a few fires, dumpster fires there. So, if you put
this type up, you don't have to worry about the prototype because you're not going to do that no more. Right. Correct. So, that's going to have to be accessible to the fire department, but it's also got to be safe for the kids is running around there. Now, today I seen four kids in one dumpster digging
through it. Who is going to maintain the dumpsters once uh this all gets approved to? Well, um you know, I can't comment. I I've been uh over to the site. Um maybe
not as many times as the board members have. Um could the existing dumpsters use a facelift and a retrofit? Uh yes. And that was what was this what that was the genesis of this plan and speaking with
the township and the county about a more accessible and aesthetic enclosure. Right. Um, in terms of of on-site management, the the management is going to um manage and make sure that the
dumpsters in conjunction with the township that picks up the trash and the county will make sure that the dumpsters are enclosed and and in a safe. I can't tell you any more than that. And if I bring someone up from Fox Meadow, I suspect that they're going to tell you the same
thing. I I tal I talked to three or four shop people in in a uh where they keep their equipment and all. Sure. And they have no idea who maintains them. That's up the management, right? Uh we have no idea what you're talking
about enclosures. No one said nothing to us. And the dumpsters in the middle street of of your roads inside the property, right? They have no authority to move them. Is that going to remain the same rules?
The the the current management. So So somebody told you from just a shop. No management. Shot people. Shot people from who? That from Fox Meadow. Yes. I'm just curious how how many who who did you know who you
There was three of them there. Okay. When when did you speak with them? I'd say about one o'clock. Yeah. To today. Yeah. So, I I'm I'm just curious. Is there is there anybody else on the board who's been over to the site and spoken with the shop people?
I' I'd like to know that. No. So, you're Mr. Stevens, right? There there have been people to the site that wrote around. Okay. Well, I think that I think that should be I Mr. Chairman, I think that should be disclosed for the record, right? What's that?
That that people have been to the site, right? That's normal. We drive to every site that's on the application. So, I'll defer to I'll defer to your solicitor on that whether it's normal or not. It It's not, Bob. It's got to be on the record that people have actually been out to the site. Okay.
You're not allowed to look at what you're proposing. Are you saying that? No, he's not applying that, I'm sure. Okay. Um, so Mr. Stevens, you you Mike, I'm sorry. Mike, you you want to know you you want a commitment from somebody that that somebody's going to maintain
these is correct. Well, yeah. And I don't mean to be disrespectful. You're not respectful. I was with the fire department 20 years and every time we go in there, we had major fires in there. We had to move dumpsters out of the way. The
dumpster and I'm talking about when three or four buildings were burned down. M the kids are kids and they start a lot of fires in there on the in the dumpsters themselves and the little kids running around riding their bikes and
all that. Somebody's going to get hurt. Yeah. And the only reason I'm bringing it up now is because of your new project. I don't know your other new management or what's going on, but same owner, same management.
Yeah. since 1988. Um, you want to talk about the ongoing maintenance before you go any further. Okay. Uh, and I'm going to ask Mr. Kingsbury to listen to this. I don't know what your inference was
with regard to did people drive through the property to look at what was being proposed versus did anyone stop and talk to someone. Mhm. If you have an inference, you should state it on the record. I think I I I I think I did, Mr.
Chairman. It's important to know. Well, then I didn't hear it correctly. So, why don't you say it again? Okay, Mr. Chairman. So, so I'm clear. It's important for the applicant to understand who from the board made an appearance at the site, who they spoke with. It's all relevant testimony.
Okay. if you would like to poll the the board. I think everybody said that they they hadn't been out there other than Mike. I've been out there. Okay. I've been out there. I took a tour. Okay. Good. We always check. It is typical for board members to visit any application to make sure that they have a physical site of it.
Um I I I appreciate. Now, the second thing I want to bring to your attention is this that you're the professionals and you're presenting what you would like to have with regard to the closures. Part and parcel with that is once you
give us the beautiful pictures and you give us how it's supposed to be maintained, we would like to speak to somebody who is going to commit to that maintenance because everybody who wrote out there saw what you had seen in that
first exhibit. Even in your prototype, the dumpsters didn't go into the enclosure. They were outside of the enclosure. Okay. So, it's not just the pretty pictures. It's what happens when you folks leave and we're left with what's happening after that.
And we're interested in that. Okay, Mr. Chairman, we Why don't we get somebody up from the management? Sure. Okay. Well, first of all, I don't know what's being proposed. We don't have an exhibit. We don't do they do do the new enclosures take up
the exact square footage as what has been presented to in your your Mr. Chairman I started and you interrupted with a couple of questions. Can I just go through what we're proposing if you answer that question? Yes.
How about Mr. Chairman? How about we hear fully from Mr. Bosco and then so well you can present but you may get questions uh throughout your presentation because we may have a question at a certain point. We're not going to wait till the end and store that. Okay.
But you asked for a description and Mr. Fusco was in the middle of providing that description and then it was other questions came up. That's natural. I'm sure you witness that in every application that you have. So Greg, why don't you continue?
Thank you. Okay. The uh trash enclosures themselves consist of a concrete slab and a concrete apron. These trash enclosures and the enclosure details um are consistent with the Burlington County Recycling
U requires. They're the ones that have asked us to help improve the situation out of Fox Meadow with the new trash enclosures. Trash enclosures, as I testified previously, will be open in the front. The bins will be guided in
the back with reinforced concrete steel ballards. Purpose of the ballards is so that the user, which happens to be either the solid waste collector or the recycling uh company or county in this case, doesn't push the dumpsters back
through the back of the the dumpster. Okay. The actual enclosure itself will be constructed of 6 feet high solid earth tone vinyl fencing. That be on three sides. Again, the dumpsters are intended to be
pushed back into the enclosure itself. So, they're beyond the walls, the sidewalls of the enclosure. The enclosures are three sizes. The image that was up on the screen while you had asked your questions. If you could put those back, I' I'd like to be able to make testimony.
The young lady behind you is doing it. Which the one where all the dumpsters were gathered in the corner in the street? Keep going. Keep keep going. The one we called the prototype, right? No. No. I want to where the
dumpsters were in the parking spot. Okay. The intent the intent of this project is so that doesn't happen. Right now, I don't believe the applicant or the three professionals are before you here right now are going to deny that that does
that that doesn't exist. So, can I could I just say real real quick why are you here? I guess maybe you could explain to the board. They may not understand. I'm about to since Amazon and everything go through that. Okay. Okay. I'm about to. The photograph that
you all presented to us illustrates a condition that occurs throughout the entire development. The intent is to eliminate that, stop it. All those areas that are in the corners of parking spots in the corner, the grass area islands
where there's a concrete slab, a bin, and a makeshift trash enclosure, wood fence around it. They're all going to be removed. The concrete slabs will be taken up. The fencing will be thrown out. Those dumpsters won't be used. But what will happen is the areas will now
be consolidated into the areas that were shown on the site plan. They'll be consolidated into depending on the the location inside the development into areas where the large five bin enclosure will be
required for the four bin or the three bin. And they're scattered throughout the site plan that's before you. For example, up against the golf bar, the driving range. Yeah. Okay. There are three new locations. Again, those types
of areas that exist now will be completely eliminated. There are three new locations where we'll have um enclosures. One will be the five that's all the way in the back corner furthest from Route 73 up against the C bar. The next closest to Route 73 will hold four
containers. and the closest 373 will hold. That's the intent and that's the way it's been reestablished throughout the entire development. That's the intent of the application. The green is original intent is to
comply with the county and their wishes to clean that mess up. Use their basic trash enclosure standard so that they have a better way of uh better, safer, more organized way of collecting recyclables in the community.
Greg, Greg, to supplement your testimony. Tom, Greg just completed and I would like to ask him a question. Actually, I want to ask the question of Fred. the presentation they're making now with a different set of enclosures than what we have seen up till now.
Have you had a chance to review that? The enclosures themselves? Yes, we've called them up and that's why I was asking what the changes are and we have that in our letter because we're going to look to you as the engineer to to tell us about their plan and I
want to make sure that you have had an opportunity to review what they're now presenting to us. Yes. Okay. The last two times plus this evening that I've been before members of the board, not all of them, but members of
the board, we presented these trash enclosures with the open fronts and the solid vinyl fencing. Okay, we presented those again, not formally to the board like we are now, but we've been here for a workshop and there was another
time that we came before the board and presented. I believe it was back during the uh March of uh 2020. I recalled that. I I have one other question. We have not changed Mr. Kingsbury. uh
the enclosures that they're presenting now are different than the enclosures that they had originally presented. I don't know what that does to the notice. Does it change the notice at all? The public notice.
Well, if it's a matter of style, I don't think it affects notice. So if they're in the same place and they're generally doing the same thing, right? And the notice referring to the previous enclosures
now that there are new enclosures, it doesn't change that. I don't think so. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Otherwise, we're wasting a lot of time. Do you have a picture of what the solid vinyl fence would look like? Susan, did you say that?
Susan, do you have a picture? I think we saw a vinyl enclosure up there. That's not what they have proposed. It's something that's in our trash. Yeah. The photos that we put up there earlier were the example photos that I have on the dumpster ordinance that we send out to people so they can go online
and view what we're talking about with the enclosure. Put that up there. So maybe we can ask them if that's what they're talking like that. This was an ordinance that was adopted in 2017. Correct. Yeah, it stopped in 2017. These are just examples of what is
a four-sided, you know, uh, dumpster enclosure, the proper ones. So, again, Mr. Kingsbury, a question. They're asking to have a three-sided enclosure, right? When the ordinance calls for a
four-sided enclosure. So all that is needed is for them to request the variance of that. That was probably a waiver under site plan ordinance rather than a zoning ordinance. Okay. And that so they would need a waiver.
Does not affect the the notice either. No. Okay. The the confusion that may exist is the ordinance was 2017-15 or I'm sorry. Yeah, it's it's I don't know that that's been
incorporated into chapter 171, which is our waste disposal fully with the codification of the ordinance. So, we have two things I guess that we're looking at. An ordinance as well as a code. Yes.
So, what does that mean? I don't know. That would be a legal question. All right. Thank you for that. So, if I may, um, can you go back to those examples, please? Sorry. And Craig, could I ask you to speak into that microphone, please?
I I pardon me. Um, I if you go back a little further, okay, the the the trash enclosures, it appears that the size of these, they're they're suitable for one metal dumpster
and and an area for recyclables. Um that that looks to be about 10 feet across. Correct. That's correct. Okay. So that in in my world that they're relatively small trash enclosures compared to what we're trying
to accomplish here. Okay. They're there. This is much larger much larger metal bins to store a larger volume of trash because of the number of apartments and uh again uh work with and help satisfy the requirements of the
hauler in this case the county. I don't have any experience with that but it would seem to me that having five and four and three it'd be tough to have a door. It's extreme. Well, it it's not so much having the door, it's it's taking care of it. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, the
most you see is this one here. This is two. This is going to be two dumpsters right here. So, you have the two double gates with the two dumpsters in there. Maybe there's some spots in the back where you can house some recycling cans or whatnot. Maybe a grease trap, but uh for the most part, two is the max that you would see with the gate in the
front. So, I understand. Okay. So, is it is it proposed this way? because you you you'll make less of them around your your uh property. That That's correct. People have to walk farther to throw their their trash away.
Again, we've we've tried to we tried to take care of that and we tried to centrally relocate them so that we don't have all these small areas in the parking lot. If you can look
the green the green squares on this exhibit which I haven't I haven't marked but the green squares designate existing trash enclosure locations. All we tried to do was condense
and make convenient the new trash enclosure location. So where we had an example in the section of apartments that's closest to the the driving range there exists now one two
three four five six seven areas where bins just sit. Okay. They're different sizes. They may have fencing around them in poor condition. They may not. They're just sitting on. So in that one area, that first area
you're you're pointing to, how many will be there? The red is the new ones. Yes. Now we're proposing one, two, three, four, five, six. Okay. They'll be larger. Again, they're people are going
basically in the same location, same direction to get rid of their solid waste and their recyclable. So you six or nine? Six. And you're gonna have you had eight or nine. That's correct. Okay. I think the one that we were just
looking at which contained two dumpsters, they were very attractive. They had the gates on them. Uh we've heard that kids possibly are getting into the dumpsters. Is it possible to put like two of those
doubles side by side where you would have, you know, the gates on the front of them? That's my question. The only problem with that would be and I think a lot of their problem is the people who collect the trash and trucks have waiting because I live from
the sub shop and when he comes in the morning he'll open the two gates and then he'll go in and get the dumpster, pull it out, dump it and then go back in and then close the gates. I doubt very much um
speaking realistically is that the word that they're going to do that on all these numbers. They're not ballerinas. They're trash men. The best way to that's their most that's going to be most of their problem. And and I'd have to stop right now and go back to the county and your public
works department and say, "Hey, listen. We got a little bit of a curveball here. How you feel about enclosures?" And I don't suspect that they're going to because they've already greenlighted this. While they have no approval authority, they've greenlighted this plan, your public works department in
the county of it being open with an apron to get to the dumpsters. So I I again I'd have to go back to the public works in the county to see whether that even would be acceptable to to or for I just I need to correct one thing on
the record. It is not the municipality's public works department. So that wouldn't have been it. So we have a program that uh Fox Meadow is in most of our apartment complexes are. It's the MAX program and that's run through trash pro. It's a separate contractor that does all of the county trash. So I
should be clear DPW did not approve anything. I I apologize because my notes reflect it. We did have just want to make sure communications with the it was the communications with the township's representatives. Correct. Mr. realistically do you think vinyl
enclosures are sturdy enough for all of the all of the everything that goes on there like for all of that use in such a large development. I I mean vinyl fence, you
know, in your backyard, that's one thing, but I I think with the provisions that we provided with the ballards and whatnot that they'll be better taken care of, um then you see what's happening with with the wooden ones and the older ones that exist at the uh the
I also noticed that the ballards you have on the prototype are already starting to key or bend. They're leaning. A couple of them were leaning which meant the trash truck they've gotten hit and again they're not
ballerinas. I mean that's the best way I could put it. Those vinyl fences typically are very fragile. You see especially with population of Fox Meadow and like you yourself said the trash drivers are not ballerinas.
Uh, I could easily see the first week that's up one of those dumpsters going right through the side of that vinyl fence, which vinyl is a fancy word for plastic. Okay. Uh, it doesn't seem sturdy enough.
And also the other point is don't you feel that now that you're having fewer locations of dumpsters even though the locations where you have them are larger amount of dumpsters just people's inclination that I have to walk further now so I'm not
going to bother taking it to the dumpster. I'm just going to dump it on the street. I don't think I don't foresee that I don't foresee that at You're not concerned about that happening? I do not foresee that You think they'll just walk? I don't think they have that much further to walk the cord. I I don't think they have that much
further to walk. Sticking with the vinyl fence and it sturdiness or not. Do you have exhibits of other locations that have that what you're proposing? I I don't have any photographs. No, sir. Do you have experience with that?
Yes. Okay. And And what is that experience? PE people built them and they're required to maintain them. Um, do they maintain? Are they easily maintained? Sure, they're easily maintained. Absolutely. I actually I believe they're a little bit more uh easier to maintain
than wood. And Greg, in your capacity as a board engineer, you've seen this white solid white vinyl is most is the most um proposed material that we see in site plans in the municipalities that I
represent. So when I look at your exhibit and I see the shrubbery you're proposing for the back of it, I see in your little legend that you provide for
replacement of that shrubbery if it should die. That's correct. Yeah. All right. I believe that's a requirement of the What about the replacement of the vinyl fence if if it should cave? that that that's a maintenance issue, but that obviously can be a condition of approval. So, you're okay?
Sure. For those people who are concerned about the sturdiness of vinyl versus what you had? Yeah. You're okay with the condition of approval that says when that fencing becomes injured in some way, it'll be
replaced. Absolutely. Okay. So, that might take that away. I mean, and there there are also different grades of vinyl. It's the mill or the thickness of the vinyl. There's residential that you see the kids throw balls go through the fence and then
there's a commercial grade vinyl that they could be utilizing. So that's something okay to take into consideration. What I'd like to hear is our engineers report, but I want you to make your full presentation. I I I would like to respond to
the board members question regarding if if a trash truck were to hit the side of the if if it were masonry and the trash truck hit the side of it, the masonry needs to be rebuilt. Okay, it's a trash truck is a trash truck. It's it's it's
made of steel. It weighs a lot, especially if it has a heavy load with it. This is going to crash into that that masonry and destroy it. If it's wood, it's going to destroy it. So, regardless of what you propose, it's going to be res destroyed and it's going to have to be maintained.
That's true. Okay. Um, again, I the the only thing I wanted to add to my presentation is the images that were placed on the screen that represented trash enclosures that meet your ordinance now were were for they're for
small commercial businesses. The gates are double gates. They're not they're not they're maybe 10 feet wide at the most. If we're lucky, 12. Um in in order to accomplish that feat
here, we would have we would have a number of sets of double and single wide gates. Um it it's not realistic in this condition. It's not realistic for the trash hauler to come here,
get out of the truck, open those gates, close those gates, get in and out. It I I I can assure you it's not. I I'm I'm a municipal engineer. I represent seven municipalities. Three of those municipalities collect their own trash. It's not going to happen based on my experience.
If anyone disagrees with that, share it with Mr. Can I make a comment? Everybody's mentioning the trash truck driver. There's going to be hundreds of people a day going into these trash bins for them to have to open gates. They're not going to
sort of trash in a trash bin. I think it's not functional to require, but they're not going to destroy it. I'm I'm I I sense from the board members that you're worried about it being destroyed, maintained, and whatnot. The hopefully humans haven't reached the level where they're going to destroy
steel gates when they use them every day. I mean that's what but the condition of approval to replace anything that is destroyed by the trash truck you're willing to do that that in my opinion yes but in my opinion that's a compliance issue throughout the entire community and and and that people
should should abide by that. Yes. Okay. Done your presentation. Is it possible to speak to one of the managers that can make decisions? Sure. The managers will be called up but I want the I want the engineers report. Mr. Chairman, can I I I just want to go
through a couple more things. Sure. Before we get I didn't know you were finished. Well, okay. I didn't started. Um Greg, how about the construction? Uh are they going to be built at grade? They are build at grade. Yes. Okay. So, I'm I'm asking that because
I'm I'm I'm I know the board and perhaps Fred are going to be concerned about storm water impact. Is there any storm water impact? Uh there there will be no storm water impact regarding the construction of any of these. Okay. And I mentioned at the start that we're going to be losing 37 parking
spaces. Um h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h h how about the existing parking, the number of spaces that are there. Is that sufficient for um the resident population there? Yes, if you want me to elaborate.
Yeah, if you could please. And if I may elaborate, um uh our our office has been involved with the organization for for many years. Uh we've been before the board for many applications. Uh one of the tasks that we've done over
the years is to uh resize the parking spaces and try and generate as much parking out there in the facility as possible. Uh to date, if I may just throw these numbers at you, please. There are currently 2383 parking spaces that exist. They're 9 by8 parking
spaces. Um, as we've testified this evening, um, the application is to remove 37 of those parking spaces in order to accommodate these new trash enclosure locations and the new trash enclosure sizes. Um, in
reality, if this Fox Meadow was built back in the 70s, maybe even started before then, but in reality, if it were built today, the required number of parking spaces that would be necessary under the residential site improvement standards is a lot more. It's 2851
parking spaces, about 500 parking spaces more. So, your initial reaction should be, "Wow, there there's not enough parking out there." Um, and I'm I'm here to testify that that's not the case. There's more than enough parking
out there. Uh, what I've done personally, I've gone out uh to the site and I've been out there more than once, but I've gone out to the site uh in February. I've been there Saturday morning approximately 5:30 in the morning till about 10 after 6. And I
personally encountered all the available parking spaces um that were that were open, okay, at the site. And if I may, just real quick, so we can address parking as simply as possible, I have an exhibit here. I I can mark this A2.
Yes, please. And this exhibit is is just a a view of a plan view of Fox Motor Apartments with all the parking spaces shown and the building shown. Um I have it broken out into four phases.
In the rear up against the creek, 90 parking spaces were vacant. Again, this is 5:30 in the morning on a Saturday. out in front towards Route 73, 127 parking spaces were available. They were vacant up against the golf farm, 157
parking spaces. And in the center of the complex, that would be where those trash that photograph of those trash enclosures were scattered in the parking space. There were 90 available spaces. There wasn't an evacuation that day, was there? No, there wasn't. No, I know. But but that's
there have been a number of complaints about parking at Fox Meadow and there isn't enough. And I'm I'm here to tell you there's more than enough. Those those complaints were more like when I wake up there isn't a parking space available right in front of my unit and I have to walk 100 ft to get to a park.
How many tenants are in I could tell you how many units there are sir. Okay. There are 1,400 and um 98 98 98 units. Thank you. Okay. And as I had mentioned, in accordance with the residential site improvement standards,
which is a current standard, Box Meadow, if it were built today, would be required to provide about 2851 parking spaces. I was going to say at least two people for each unit, right? So, you're reducing it by 37 and you don't even have close to 2,800. We don't
have close to 2,800 without reducing it. Right. But so you're reducing it on top of that. Right. But I'm telling you that there are more than enough parking spaces out there based on observations and counts that have been performed at the time you happen to be there. I I strategic and that particular
I strategically went out there in the morning 5:30 in the morning on a Saturday when when 90% of these people are sleeping. They're not going to work. They're not partying. They're they're in they're they're in their unit and they're sleeping.
Mr. Fusco, you're correct. It isn't it isn't the parking bill. It's that people want to park right in front of their apartments. There's there is parking there. Was the time that you Mr. that suggested I really um and again the reason why we
we went out that early in the morning on Saturday first of all it's it's kind in the industry it's kind of common sense but it was suggested by the board professional Mr. Torque suggested that we go out in that off time because again everybody should be in the house at that
time. They're not leaving for work. If they are it's a small percentage of people. It's not I believe 400 spaces that are avail 490 464 that were available and and the occupancy is has never been stronger at Fox Meadow
because of the the times. Um, Greg, one last question. I I I didn't get a chance to address this in my opening remarks, but um, let's talk about the landscaping. Um, can you show the board what you've proposed in terms of landscaping?
Um, Before before the applicant appeared before the board, they had already initiated a landscaping um scheme at the facility where they've gone around to each building group and
started replacing foundation plantings. Uh a portion of the the development has already been completed. Um what they're doing is they're proposing foundation plings on two sides of the building. They've removed all the old foundation
plings, proposed an entirely new uh stretch of plings. I believe Mr. Tour has provided some photos, but we also have some photos that I'd like to hand out to everyone if I may that'll illustrate what the the groupings look like
collectively. Bob, these will be A3. And um if if I may, you're going to turn around and you're going to ask, "Well, why only two sides in between the building?" Give us a chance to have those pass around, please. Is it enough for everybody or should we
share? No, these are all different. They're all different pictures. They're all different. Okay. It could be a little longer. I think it's important that you see There's one coming from the other direction as well.
Okay. And management has has has had these planned and they're being maintained. While this is getting passed around, I just have a crazy question. Are the are the uh dumpsters actually going to be put in kg quarter? Is there a reason for that? Can what?
Be be put in kaggy quarter? Yes, absolutely. Why is that? Because you take Could you ask your question again while they're passing that around? I don't know that I want them to hear what you're asking. Can you go back to that picture where it shows the dumpsters? The dumpsters are located on an angle as
opposed to because it would take up a lot less room and would be less room to be tampered with, I would think, if they were put in straight. And I thought maybe you just made the chart like that. Is there a reason why they're caddyy corner? Yes. A trash truck. It it it's not a
Honda Civic. It's big and bulky. It's long. It's it's anywhere from 35 to 38, possibly 40 feet long. It travels down a driveway aisle that is 24 or 25 ft wide. The reason why, and I'm hoping you can see this, and I guess I have to mark
this A A5. Uh, excuse me, A4. A4. you need them for your um and what we've done is we've actually in exhibit A4 we've actually provided this a large
track trash truck vehicle how it has to circulate through the development and approach the bins and the bins have to be on an angle in order for the trash truck to accept the if it's on a corner no any anywhere in the even along the straightaway
and again this was discussed with the uh waste hauler and the recycling hauler and it met their details. That's why they're on enough. Okay. And and it should make them easier to put them back in where they belong,
right? It's just they have a lot more space between them where they can get tampered with. That's what I was thinking about. So, Greg, I think everybody has seen the plantings. So, that that's the intent. But the reason why the reason why there are no plantings
in between a building group. All the utilities in Fox Meadow are underground. Gas, electric, telephone, cable, and obviously sanitary sewer. All those utilities are, excuse me, are brought up
in and shared. Management has had a terrible time behind these buildings for a couple of reasons. One is security. Two, it's the underground utilities. All of the trees have been removed in between the buildings because they've been struggling with that problem. And the
vegetation has been removed. So, this is what has been proposed. It is ongoing. It's it's ongoing out there now. It just so happens that the subject came upon the review of this application and we felt it necessary to make sure we showed
the board that something like this is going on. In addition, can you mark that A5 please? Thanks. In addition to the foundation plans, um the board engineer uh has made it
uh clear that he had wanted to see trees added to the development. Um a lot of the trees again as I mentioned because the utility purposes have been removed security p purposes they've been removed. So um to um
help comply with that proposal, the applicant strategically went through the development and placed trees. The trees are shown as green dots on this particular image. This is a color aerial image of Fox Meadow. It's enlarged.
There are three sections. There are three plants. And we've gone through and we've added a variety of trees. Again, the trees are placed for security reasons, for maintenance reasons. There is nothing that occurs behind the buildings.
And the image also shows the existing trees that remain out of the facility. Greg, you showed us the trash enclosures that were there and the count of them versus the trash enclosures that you now you don't have
to change that exhibit as opposed to trash enclosures you're now proposing. So there was x number of trash containers and now you're going to have another number. The number of trees that existed there
versus the number of trees you're now putting in. Do you have those? I do not have I do not have the count of what was here three years ago. Do you think that there's more trees missing than are being presented? This particular area aerial is current
on Google Earth. So I believe that these existing trees for the most part are what are out here now. But those with an X on them meaning that they're going to be removed. Are they going to be replaced? There's going to be no trees removed. Okay. Since the time those trees were marked
with an X, the state has come a long way with trees and their ordinance. So there's no intention to remove the tree. If we remove the tree, we recognize your 2024 ordinance that we have an obligation to replace it.
So, like we said with the shrubs, if they if the shrubs were to die, you would replace them. The same thing with the trees. Absolutely. Management's committed to that. Yes. Okay. Anything further? Anything further? No, I have nothing.
Mr. Mr. Chairman, maybe we could hear from your engineer. All right. Thank you, Tom. Great. Mr. Chairman, I was wondering if it's possible to show those photographs to on the board. I could just explain them. They're part of our letter, but I think they may be better serve better justice
if they're up here. Are they the ones from your letter or are they ones that you sent to 20? The ones I sent to you? Yes, please. So, what I'd like to do is if I could get up and just Sure. identify what's going on before I give the letter so you understand what the
letter is doing. And before I go through that, um the engineer indicated that Fred wants uh Fred does not want uh the township ordinance requires and there's property maintenance in the township. There are old historic aerials of this
site where there are thousands of trees, right? We heard that there's an issue between the buildings. Uh I'll have questions as we go on. There's they found issues with between the building security. Well, we can deal with security and the issues that are occurring. If you could just
think about what what are those issues that were occurring and then I'd also like to talk about the pine trees that were exed out in the phase one. Uh the project was proposed and I don't know if you went through that, Greg, that they now have three phases of improvements
for landscaping. Is that correct, Mr. Coleman? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So that was uh when the manager and I met with Fox Meadow two years ago at least, we talked about uh they had spoken about
the cost, the impact of the cost to the site. My response was, well, if it had been maintained over the last 50 years, 60 years, uh it wouldn't all be coming at one time. but realizing it's coming at one time. It made sense to phase it,
right? So, they're phasing it and they started with the foundation plantings and I'll go through where they've actually made some very nice improvements along the way, but they're few and far between. So what I'm bringing up and I will bring up in the letter, we'll talk about the dumpsters
and enclosures, but with regard to landscaping when we spoke on the previous application, we talked about the master plan and the goals and objectives. And part of that is trees, they bring a neighborhood humanity to it. And you go out there and you see
these children with their parents walking down these long isolated corridors where there is nothing. uh there will one day be as the phases go on foundation plantings but foundation plantings serve one purpose um and that's just to buffer the edge and I
believe now under new construction code and I don't know if that would fall on this you need an 18-in non-combustible area so that's something else we'll have to go through but I just wanted to walk through what I saw as I go through the project so this was the prototype
trash enclosure and I realized they don't want to build that trash enclosure. Now it's there's a different for for whatever reasons. Instead of the peers that were the stone peers that we saw on the earlier one, they're now yellow painted steel ballers to protect
the edges of the fence. So, and again, in all of these, we heard I don't know what someone said they're not dancers or ballerinas. These aren't even close to be putting back in. And this is who's going to be picking up the trash in the future, whether it's
the county or our contracted services. So Susan, if you go to the next one. Uh, this is something I just want to bring up for you, Greg. There's a couple areas where the site distance along Fox, this is the main entrance
drive. I think it's Fox Drive, Greg. Yep. Yes. There were crepe murals installed and this is where trees used to exist again when I was in high school and I would go out here with my friends. Uh the trees have been cut down, taken down over the years and quite frankly after 50 years and you'll see pictures
of pine trees. It's just like you need a new roof. Landscaping is called there's maintenance required and trees do have to be replaced after a certain time. A tree that's this size does no longer fit between curve and sidewalk. Right? So there is a process and a maintenance
that has to occur in any complex, any shopping center, any home. You take the tree down and you're supposed under our code, you're supposed to put another tree in under the current code, which is now controlled by D and we've established those. There's a number that you have to replace a larger tree with
so many smaller trees, but we'll go through that. Here's a case where multiple times I pulled out here and I've watched people trying to pull out here. Extremely dangerous. that tree, that tree or shrub, whatever we're going to call it, needs to be removed. And there are some other locations where I think the intent was good. They put some
grasses in. They're this big, but they're right at a corner. You cannot see even the school buses that were coming by. I experienced that. I I had trouble seeing where I could pull out. Yeah. Yeah. Dangerous. Actually, that's a separate issue. And Greg, you and I could even walk the site. There
were only two or three locations where it really is bad. Uh, but we'll get back to these shrubs that are along the main drive. They're now, and I don't know if anyone knows what a crepe myrtle is. They look pretty. They're at all the vacation places we go, but crepe myrtles never stopped growing at the bottom. And
what you see is happening here, is growing at the bottom, and they're getting wider and wider. They're now extending into the driveway. And again, I think it's the idea that maybe the wrong plant was put in. Uh, it serves well. You can't see. It's a good buffer until October 30th, I guess, or whenever
the first frost, and then it's no longer a buffer. Uh, but there is a site distance problem and a maintenance issue that's going to exist here that everyone has to be aware of. If you can go to the next one, u, here's an example of right across from, I guess, the daycare
or it's a daycare facility where they installed in a three or four foot area. These are the creek murals. And then they started putting trees in. And these trees, you can see they were installed in stages, maybe 10 at a time because of the size. They you say so many years
went by. Those trees are called columnar trees. And they only grow maybe 8 feet wide, 10 feet wide. And they they're very well suited in here. As you can see, this is a very short section of whatever this road is across. And I apologize. I don't know the names of
these roads in here. And if you can to the next one. You'll see how they're very well suited, but it's only on one area in one section. So, this is along the new uh daycare facility and the I guess the work the
clubhouse they installed they started installing. So, again, the intention was good, but it was required I'm sure as part of those site plans. Greg, you had done those site plans? No. Or no? Okay. U as part of those site plans, someone said you need to install the trees. So this is what happens in
every development. If you go to the next one, I think it should be the swimming pool area. So putting those trees in again you typically do those as trees die you replace them and then the cost becomes the same burden every year. So this is another example of a brand new
how old is this? You know three years four years at that this one we pull in the clubhouse. So here's an example of wow I moved there. Right. That's what you're saying. And it's quality of life issue. We have a nice fence. There's trees down that
side, trees on this side, and trees on the other side. Again, they were required. And now you have low low growing grasses or grasses that are growing in there. And again, you say, "Wow, that's if this whole community looked like this." But now we're going to see the other side. If you go to the next one,
this one is in this is what And again, I believe you had mentioned that you're not going to the large pine trees down. We'll see those. If you were to go out there and look at these large pine trees, they were planted when they're this tall. They were cute. People probably put ornaments on them, right?
And they've outgrown this. This is a pine tree. Everything you see on the site now, and I I apologize for resolution, but they're all pine trees that have roots throughout the ground, and some are leaning, and they've really meant their lifetime. uh they they
actually and I'm not going to say I'm going to say this, but they need to come down as a safety to the residents, the the owner uh hitting the structures and so forth. And before we go to another picture, if you could back up on that, please.
Okay. All right. Is that the grass area right there in the front? That is these are I'm going to call two things. Front yard where the sidewalks are when you enter into your units and then what Greg referred to as the that are void of any vegetation as rear
yards. That's what we're going to talk about. That's was that the front yard there? This is a front yard excluding this pine tree. There is nothing in here. Uh and again, there's no irrigation in this development. It's an old development. So, what keeps the grass green is
typically some shade. And you'll see some other sections of Fox Meadow that still have the original trees, the cherries, the crab apples, the dog woods, and they're the ones that are in the front yard. And then you'll see the big ones on the corner. That's what used to be
out here. And they still exist in one or two locations. So when I talk about the front yards and in my letter are void of any vegetation. This is what it is. And this is when I went out there. And I'm an engineer, but I'll tell you, seeing the kids walk down these little kids
seeing no vegetation and the sun. The grass is dead. It's it's, you know, it's just worn down. Grass is absent or it's absent. Yes. But but this is an example of what is going on. And I that's why when I went out to the site, we're here looking at trash enclosures
turned into a site plan. More than just Amazon changing the world. Um it's a quality of life thing. Our master plan, all the things that we have in our codes prevent this. So that's that's what I'll go through in the letter in a few minutes. Susan, the next one, please.
So this is another front yard and this is the place and you see the large poles. What you see on the left side is a wooded area. That's because that is a wooded area. It's not a housing area. What you see on the right side is a large pine tree that actually most
likely should come down. Um, and what I found when I was out at the site is some of the larger deciduous trees that have the leaves, the maples and so forth, they're also have X's, and they most likely have outgrown their their life as well as their
positioning in this tight area. So, this is what you will see now. It's just void of any vegetation. This one happens to be a pine tree that had an X on it, but it hasn't come down yet because we got involved in the project in 2012. It's probably why I saw some beach umbrellas
on the patios blocking the windows to keep the sun out. Yeah, there's a lot of different people who are very inventious I guess the word is uh their ingenuity come up with ways to shave themselves but again you look at the grass and again I'm not saying that irrigation
nothing like that but typically when you have a tree the grass is somehow giving some relief to the area and what you'll see in another photograph is in these front yards what used to be were crab apples dog woods plums
whatever else they had, crab, everything, cherry trees, and a few of them still exist. So, you can look back in time by seeing a couple of areas. And to me, that's really what should be done, whether it's three-phase, a fivephase process, but somehow to
restore, and I guess this is not so much engineering or a site plan approval, but this is property maintenance. It would be so easy if we had a site plan, the original site plan, the original drawings, but we don't have that. But we do have some historical photographs that we can show you where all the little
dots were is where they planted all the trees and there were thousands of trees. So, all right. Yes, please, Susan. Uh, this was just an example of again a tree that really shouldn't be there anymore. That was a little tree that split. It has an X on it. I don't know
if you can see the X, but the X's were on there. It's leaning. It's at a point where it's going to probably split. They're the type of trees that should be removed and they were scheduled to be removed. The next one. So, this is another front yard and I
just I point this out to show the consistency throughout. So, what we have is a large pine tree. Uh, and that large pine tree will be gone. And what you're going to see is a this goes almost all the way back to the clubhouse. And this is throughout the development. It's void
of any vegetation. You can see these areas aren't walkways. That's just lawn that is has disappeared. So again, I'll say the same thing over and over. If you had some trees in there, what a different appearance. And the people
that are living in there, it brings back a little more humanity, I think, with landscaping. I know I'm an engineer. I'm not supposed to love landscaping, but trees are important. Um, and I think it's something that should be considered and I I went through and I counted some
trees just to make it sort of and I'll give you the numbers and acceptable. I'm not saying put it back to the original standard. I think it should be, but it now because you have to do it all at once, you should phase it. Uh Susan, if you go into the other one.
Uh here is one of the when you pull in to the development off of 73. This is one of the units in the back on the side. Grab apple plum tree, whatever they were. This is what used to be there. And I again apologize for the resolution. I
had so many to send over. I had to do a low resolution. But this is what you see that used to be in the front yard when I was in high school and would go over there to see my friends. This is what it was. It was well landscaped. Again, they were smaller then. And what you see are these large pine trees. And then there's
the smaller trees. Again, the smaller trees, you can see under them. It's not a crime issue. It's not a police issue. It's security, a safety. But look what it does do to the residents. It gives them shade. And this is one of the areas that still exist and it wasn't touched.
Uh fortunately, there are one or two of these that are out there of the 1500 units. The next one, please. Um we were looking at these columnar trees on the other side. We're coming this
way. Now we're going that way. There were maybe a dozen planted here. This is the daycare facility, the maintenance. And then there are these larger ones and they extend up this way and around. So someone took an area and they put maria which is like that the grass with the little flowers on it and
they did a great job. Uh that's something that I think we want to see but there's only one area that looks like that. Uh there may be one in phase three. This is phase two. Uh the trees that you see may have been the result but there were 12 and you may see another 12 coming this way. So when you
look at that now there is a break and if we go to the next one you'll see more. This is in phase three. This is one location in the entire site but they have flowers. They did a great job. I mean it's a great job. But it is
one of the only areas that has that. And somehow if we had a few more of those areas, I think the place would be more consistent with our master plan which is quality of life all those things. So again, I'm not saying there haven't done
some areas, there are a few areas, but they're very few and what I see elsewhere is just a void of any vegetation out there. So we get a little more. Almost there. These are the larger ones. We wor go down and around to where the
smaller ones are. You can see one of the smaller ones and then they go down. But that's it on the entire site. It was just here. So, at one time somebody decided to put some vegetation in. It looks like there's two phases there, the larger ones. And those trees, that's about as big as they're going to get.
They may get a little taller, but they won't get any wider. And it's ideal for an apartment complex with, you know, trees, branches falling on cars. You're not going to have that here. So again, the intent that they were starting with in a few areas, great. Uh it's just not
much of it. So uh these another vision of across from the daycare you can see and then you see some other thing that is only on one side of one road and it's only partial. Next one, Susan. And that's an area you would recommend
that type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. if somebody's already thought it was a good idea. Um, this is what we see in a lot of cases. I know they're talking about putting foundation planting. So, that would be this
at the end of every unit just about looks like this. And I know there are lights, so you obviously would have to plant around lights. But I think when you look at aerials, there was a tree center on each building and then the smaller ones on the corner. Now, this is
typical of all the buildings out there to see. And this is by the clubhouse. I'm sorry. On the left, now on the left was the trees you see here were put in because of the swimming pool
and that approval of the clubhouse or else they would not be there either. So again, just maybe expanding this in phases would be a good idea. Next, I'm sorry. That's that's the rear yard everywhere. Why?
Okay. You look out your window. What you see is And I know there are utilities and I will ask those questions what the hazards are that occurred. So is that where the utilities and the underground wiring is. Uh that is but you can still put trees in there. I mean there's and I don't
know what the issues may have been but you can put the trees the smaller trees in the flowering trees that the ornamental are called ornamental trees. But at one time this had pine trees to buffer and again the cute little pine trees we all but they they became a I'm
sure police. So but anyway that's what you see everywhere in everyone's backyard in box. Next one. Uh this was the the prototype. Again the trash enclosures are all out. We talked
about that one plenty. Uh and that area that I was talking about with the existing vegetation is across right there where you can see some trees that are left. And the final is another safety issue.
I'll just go through this real quick. John, um MUTCD, Greg, requires signs for stop signs. Every every state in the nation has the same stop sign, same side. Well, same shape, same color. Uh, and there's requirements for mounting height.
Walking areas, you want seven feet so kids on bikes and walk. People walking don't hit themselves and hazards. Five feet for non-residential areas. What we have at this site, and again, this there's so many things I can come up with, but I'm looking at the safety issues of quality. We have that stop
sign. It's three feet off the ground on an angle. Other stop signs, the roads here, and the pole is here. It says stop. The MUTCD standard that's national that was adopted. It's required for public and private roads. So, everyone
understands stop means stop. The stop bar is at the stop sign. The crosswalk is 4 ft advanced that there's standards. And I just want to make sure that someone is looking at that again for the safety of the residents as well as a board member that may be going out
there to take a drive and not realizing that to stop there. So I think it's important that well and these pine trees again they would be gone because they have really outgrown their life and they're some of the ones that were marked with DX. So,
um, site distances, we talked about MUTCD, which is an easy, it's actually a requirement to comply with that. And then there's the landscaping. And the landscaping, while we identified a few areas that look really nice. I mean, they they're being maintained,
flowers are being planted, uh, there's just not a lot of it. The applicant proposes, and I'm just going to skip to I'll go to item number one in my Before you go any further, sir. When I was out there, I saw trees that were cut down and the stump was still in the
ground. Did you see that? I may have seen a few of those. Yes. Okay. Uh and also where the aerial I don't know if the aerial is 2 months old, 6 months old, I don't know, but there are trees that are shown on the presentation you're seeing that are not
longer there. There may only be three or four of them, but they look like they were the large pines that again wind damage, their age, they most likely were taken down. So, I just wanted to identify that. So, okay. You said something in your
presentation about you had the numbers. You may not have the site plan, but I I don't have the numbers from the from the historical data. I can obviously provide those to you. Okay. And it would be in the thousands. But that was a question I asked Greg. What were the number of trees that were there? What number of trees are coming
down? And when you get done your phases, however number of them, what are the number of trees are going to be there, right? What I did with the numbers I have is I looked at it as what I would require today going back to the 1960s. U we have the
historical, but again, were they probably the wrong trees to put in? They could have been. So, I'm just looking at the quality of life there and what would be the number that would not make those units look so stark. Okay. So, city like.
I'm happy to go through that. Okay. So, Greg proposed uh three phases. So, what you see on the board that's up now is phase one is the bottom, phase two is the top of the plan. So, in phase one, the applicant is proposing
and they were talking about the green dots. It's behind, right? Oh, okay. Great. Uh, the green dots, which are 13 13 trees they're proposing. Uh, a few of these trees may be missing. Uh, the area that we had talked about,
the crab apples and so forth, that was probably this little clump and this little clump here. So, out of I don't know how many acres this is, the old site is 40ome acres. The total number is I think like 40
trees or 39 trees in 40 acres. So that's every four yards in our neighborhood someone will have a tree. So to tell you how void that really is. So 13 in phase one and those pine trees most likely everything you're seeing here just about
are pine trees and then all marked most of them are all marked with X's. So someone was planning to take them down for a very good reason. The owners of Fox Meadow probably said, "We got to get these trees down." Right. I saw some of them with root systems that looked like they were tripping
hazards. Yeah. And it extends pretty far out. They're all gnarled roots, right? Yeah. Um so, so that's phase one was 13 trees. Phase two above it are eight trees. They're proposing eight
trees. Now, in phase two, there's little these are the crate bars along here. And I don't know if you can see these little dots. They were trees that were the column trees that were smaller. They continue in this one, where am I again? This one little grass strip. And then the larger
ones went through here into phase three. But the rest of the development doesn't have any trees. This is somebody's front yard. This is the rear yard. And again, somebody's front yard. This tree was come down. And what they originally had
were little trees in between. And I thought to myself, maybe that's too many every other lot. And that's how I did or staggered it. And I came up with in phase one, there should be 100 extra trees in phase one plus 16 in the rear yard is what I had talked about because
something could be placed back there just to break it up a little bit because you saw the photo in your mind. You still see that photo. Yeah. So that's what I was looking at phase one. And that's not a lot of trees considering the one was originally installed before it was developed. But
again, back then trees were probably $25 a piece, but they're a little more now. And phase three, which Greg, could you flip to show? It's the largest, I guess. Wow.
Give me enough credit. So this is obviously Route 73 is here and this this section has 18 trees to plant uh 18 and probably 15 acres or something
a prairie so to speak. So here here again I looked at let's do something that's not overboard for the developer and I had 111 trees with 33 in between of that count if most of us remember along Route 73. The idea was to
buffer this development and we always do that along highways. Now we I I'll talk to you about BMS and landscaping and so forth. Right now there is really nothing in here that provides a buffer. There's some trees here that have again
overgrown their stay so to speak but they could be supplemented and again buffer it. I know you can't stop the noise with trees but out of sight sometimes out of mind and again that goes to quality of life. We should have buffers. We would require buffers anywhere and there were buffers there.
There were even buffers as according to the development. I remember they've al been since taken down and it's a very narrow sloped area. So I don't know that I would recommend that they be planted there, but something could be installed there along 73.
So that really is the first part of my letter is that our ordinance requires a site plan and they they did submit finally a site plan to us with the trees. Um and I called out that majority
of the site is barren barren trees and I do believe while Mr. Coleman had mentioned that the trees aren't going to come down because now there is an ordinance that requires 3 to one replacement so forth. Some of these trees should come down because they're just big old leaning and they they've
met their likes. So and and as I mentioned, if they do have to come down for uh safety reasons, they'll be replaced three for one or whatever it's 41, right? But as part of a site plan, I don't believe that would bind you to that ordinance.
Correct. So it may be prudent now to take those trees as part of hey we're going to take them out because it's logical to take them out now because somebody thought about it and they were they were smart they can take it out because they're going to cost more money in the future. So
um so um Fred before we go further and Mr. Chairman, this is what I was trying to get at perhaps an hour ago um in my presentation, right? Do you think Ray took so long? Um and I talked to Bob about this. Um
and I know this isn't going to be shocking to Fred. It may be shocking to the board. Um we're proposing 39 trees. Okay. Uh I um Fred's got a recommendation of 361 trees.
So, um, I I asked Bob, um, I've known Bob a long time. I respect Bob. Uh, what I'd like to do is if the 361 tree recommendation recommendation from Fred is going to be
a condition of approval. I'd like to know that. Now, I can't tell you that. I don't know what the rest of the board's going to say. Okay. Well, I we're listening to the data now and some questions will come out of that which may reduce that. It may
Let me finish, Mr. Chairman. If if if the board is leaning that way, and I say this most respectfully, I'm I'm going to withdraw my application. Well, I can't again I can't tell you. Okay. I can't take a preliminary vote. Well, you you can gauge uh and it is
appropriate. It is it you can gauge the temperature of the I'm not going to gauge the temperature. I'm going to look at presentation. Can I ask your question? What is it that you're proposing? Could you be a little just 39 out of Okay. All right. Thank you.
Okay. Fred, continue, please. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. to put glasses in. Hate to say um again we had recommended focus on the front yards if there's a real logical reason not to put them in the rear
yards. The foundation plantings uh Greg you had shown a plan where you had mentioned the two sides if you could possibly just pull that up again just to make some clarity there. That foundation plantings plan. Do you have that or Susan? Three
of three. I believe it was A5. There we go. Thank you. Just check. Sure. Make it easier for me. So on this landscape plan, obviously this is planted differently than that front yard. Um
there's is there a way you can pull this up? Does this go up? Yeah, there you go. So this I recommend my recommendation is that they consider doing three sides. And in a situation
here, we have two fronts. This is a front yard. So that should be treated like a front yard. So there are some exceptions to the rule of what they're proposing. Two sides only. I'm not sure why they can't do three sides and then on places that have double frontages
have four sides to provide some green. Excuse me a second. Michael's a voting member. Yes. Michael, are you coming back? Okay. Then an alternate is going to have to take its place. So we do have we have nine sitting
tonight. So So Michael, if you're leaving Okay. Maybe Mr. Chairman, if we just take a five minute break. Yes. Because I We will visit five minute break for everybody. Thank you. Go ahead. Michael
no take your break. But when you leave the DS, you do not talk about this application to anyone. Okay. Five minutes. You got to thank Michael. [Music]
Let me have my roster. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I was confused. Thank you. I don't think any court would make them do this, but there's not a written plan. I'm going to ask Robert that question.
Well, I don't know what it's going to turn out to be. I mean, I'm I'm going to listen to what people say. Yeah. Susan said Susan I just asked Susan. You asked if everybody was eligible to vote. Yeah. Well, the people that are eligible to vote, they can make a motion also.
Correct. Yes. We're missing two. Game of story. One is Dan McDonald. And then they're down two two games, aren't they? Everybody winds up. One more game. They're out. They're out, right?
Are they out in LA now? They have to win tonight. So you got to win two in LA and then come home and win. That's right. They got to win three in a row to stay in three in a row. He's a voting member. What's that? But he's number three. There should be
two. Who are we missing? And he's number three on here. We're missing Beth. Well, she's an alter. And we're missing Frank. Frank's an alter. You're correct. I He's not here. Who are we missing for voting?
Is he still allowed to make a motion? No. You need Yeah, we have seven other members. I just don't want that regular member is the first applicant because he made the motion
to approve the one with the uh so I don't want her to have an issue. Okay. Okay, just checking. Regulations. ordinance
is not mandated by New Jersey Dro. Yes. Yeah, technically yes. Do people last come down everywhere? Starting to Okay. I was like looking kind of side eye that
just surprised me when I was dreaming about it though. But if you remove a tree and you're intending to plant other trees, when they get the permit, they get a certificate and that's what you have to state. The number of trees that are taken down and the number of trees that they have to put in backyard
with the time frame. Wow. So if they take down one of the resend on the size that you take down, do they have to put up three or four? So it depends on the width on the width and the diameter diameter of the tree. We're finding that now in a lot of our
that we're doing because we've had some trees so big and gives so much shade. I just had another one planted off the middle of the backyard. They can have up to five years. You see how they land
now? So watch on my front lawn. I have it in my back. Mine don't grow in the box at all. You have to cut them. There's different types of paper. Yeah, mine is a regular
tree. What? That's what I was asking you. We're We're approving something we didn't see. If we approve I didn't know how you would [Laughter]
You don't ever want to do Yeah. You don't ever want to do that. Well, I got to let it go now. If you would have said back then that should have been present for that's
the only reason they're still standing. What's that? We had [Music] pear trees. They were flowering pear trees, but they have a smell and they are also very
fragile. They will split. They'll split. That is why every years you need to have it all the way back. We ended up Okay, I think we're near the end of the five minutes. We are live.
We're live. As Andy Reid would say for time's yours. I'm sorry. I'm sure. U Mr. Coleman, were you speaking I guess when we ended the meeting or No, I I think we were at the point of
your letter. Oh, okay. So, uh again with the landscaping we'll go through with the foundations and that's where we left off. I guess the foundation plans building C is at the bottom of this screen and that is again I believe with
two entrances I don't know. Uh again with that I would say that there would be an exception for that they had mentioned two sides of a building. I think there should be at least three sides there. Again it would be based on how the buildings are set up front yards rear yards etc. So that
that's my comment with regard to the landscape plan for the foundation planting and they have started that. Is it all phase one that's completed or Greg you know I I have to ask you to repeat yourself. Oh I'm sorry. Now, has all phase one the
foundation plantings been installed or I I'd have to ask. I believe I believe it has or it's about to be completed. Phase one's almost completed. Yeah. And and Fred, just as a as a response, we will continue with the the two and three sides, but they're they're they're not going to do four sides.
Okay. So, just I guess explain to the board uh why one side's not landscaped, I don't know. But, uh again, that's Fred. What I'm going to do as you complete your presentation is I'm going to ask Mr. Kingsbury to give his ruling
on what kind of conditions the board is allowed to require. And then if he says that we are allowed to require XYZ, then I'm going to ask you to stipulate them so that if anybody makes a motion of approval, they
understand what they're making their motion on. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. Uh, moving on to the letter, item three really spoke to the well landscaped areas way we spoke about the columnar trees, the few areas that had the grasses and the
flowers and just mentioned that most of the site is void of that material that they consider doing that in more centralized areas just to be again consistent with I'm sure what was originally there. Um, we talked about the pine trees, the alleys, the open
alleys between homes. I don't know if we could speak about that. Now, uh the utilities are there. We can see the electrical transformers are in there. I don't believe that that prohibits the planting of certain trees. When I say trees, I'm not talking about big
specimen trees. I'm talking about ornamental trees, uh some larger shrubs, that type of thing. Nothing that would cause a safety issue for the police. They'd be cut up or limbmed up a certain height. In your experience understanding that there's other places
that have underground utilities and underground other items, are there trees or shrubs that have low profile root systems that would not interfere with that? Yes. And I guess that's I know they had
mentioned earlier they were experiencing some trouble and I don't know what the trouble was other than the trees were probably 50 years old and everyone has trouble with 50y old trees. That's okay. Typical. So, uh, the convenience of trouble because of the old age. Uh, I think you
just have to replace those types of trees. Uh, we did speak about the trees with the X. We saw the photos there. They're throughout phase one, I guess, was where they started with the foundation plantings and I'm sure they were trying to clear clear those trees out. Um, the
applicants attorney had referenced the NJUP, the new standard of replacing. So, if they were to cut a tree down today, they actually have to get a permit from Kyle's office. Is that correct, Kyle? Yes. Through your office. And then there's a standard to replace. If it's a tree this size, you plant one. If it's
this size, you plant two. So forth and so on. There is a standard. And that's an establishment throughout the state of New Jersey. Now, uh if they were to get an approval tonight, take those down, that would not pertain to them. they would just have to do like a onetoone type situation or whatever the board
would agree upon with the applicant. Uh seven was the circulation. Um they provided that but I just I know you had mentioned you had spoken with the Bron County resource and the our local services our contractors just make
sure we get a letter of approval from them and that's a quick letter just to make sure we have that. The last thing we want to do is approve it and then Burlington County says we don't like that. So it actually protects both parties, so to speak. Uh eight was the impervious cover. I just wanted to see
if there was an increase in impervious cover, Greg, at all. I'll base testimony. There's no impervious cover. As a matter of fact, there should be a slight decrease. Okay. All right. uh grading plan the
areas where you're proposing these uh do you anticipate any grading issues? I know I think Tom you had mentioned that early on. Yeah, we can provide a generic a statement if you can put that statement on a plan so that it says at the time of construction if something
occurs uh you'll work with the township engineer etc etc etc something along that line we'll come up with a note uh and also the areas of the old enclosures that were on the corners where there's a concrete pad they'll come out they'll be restored with grass and lawn
we'll provide a general detail okay repair concrete Great notes and details. That's that's fantastic. Okay. Uh the RSIS I know early on you you spoke about the parking parking as they had mentioned earlier today under
today's standards 2851 spaces they have 2,382 spaces minus the 37 there are 245 spaces. Uh while I would agree in general with what Greg had mentioned, there is one unit that's not occupied
which would have a minimal impact, but there's that one area on Madison that we spoke about when we walked the site, Greg, two years ago, I guess it was now. Um people park in the driveway because it's in the back corner. And Sue, I don't know if you pull that back up. the
plan of phase three, which is the large the larger section. What happens is it's a tight area and there is a trash enclosure proposed back there. So, there will be an impact in one area of the site. When we were out
there, there were 15 vehicles parked in the road. So, you essentially have a one-way road. And I just want to make sure if that is the case that we get something from our fire official just to say that they can get through there because this is parked at 6:00 a.m. in
the morning. It's parked in the afternoon. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Next. Okay. It's on the right. Uh it's the back corner. No, it unfortunately it's the bottom right.
Oh, it's right here. It's all I'm sorry. So it's on Madison. Yes, Madison. That's correct. The line here, this entire area, the length of that, right, is parked during the day and night. So with the trash enclosures that are going in there, and I don't know where they
are, right? There's something right in that area in phase three. Yeah, there is. It's bottom right hand corner. It's in the bottom right hand corner of that photo. Now I just I want to make sure there are fire quickly and again it appears people
have been parking here forever. Could you phase two? Phase two, please. Okay. Yeah, if we could just get something from the fire official saying that that's not a problem. Drop it all the way down. Keep going.
Down. Sorry. What's going on? I got no good. Thank you. So when you say something, are you talking about no parking signs or No, no, no. I'm saying, well, it could be if the fire officer says there should
be no parking sign. Okay. But what I'm saying is there is an impact. There's currently a problem without the expanded trash in this area. Don't know what the solution is. We looked at possibly grading. There's a pipeline back. There's there's too many obstacles, but uh if it's a fire issue,
it's a fire issue and it has to be addressed. So, I'm just saying that we would need a letter from the fire official. Roll a truck through there when all the cars are there and make sure it's not an issue. Uh, that's not a permitted parking area, but people park there because it's people do what people do. They're out front. It's out front of
their house. Yeah. I mean, everybody wants to park out front of their house. So, and there is no parking there because there's a steep embankment. It's probably four or five feet high and there's a pipeline that goes through there. Normally, you'd have the parking across the street and there would be no issues there, but again, situation. So
again, I would just ask that the fire guy gets involved in that as um almost near the end. Stop boring everybody. The decorative columns, I guess that's now out. It's just the the trash enclosure. We don't have a rendering of it, but
it's a neutral earthtonone vinyl fence, hopefully commercial grade. And on the corners to protect it instead of the columns, it's just going to be steel columns or steel ballards or post. You said commercial grade. I think
somebody said building grade over here. Tom Fred just said that the ballards would I mean the fencing would be a commercial grade. I thought you said earlier they would you were proposing builder's grade. That's what they said. builder scrape
would be the least expensive. Is there a difference? I I don't know, Mr. Chairman. I'm not a builder. I'm not defensive. Um I'm sure there's a cost difference. Um but but yeah, um
I I think that's the the least of our issues tonight. But if that if that solved it, I guarantee it would be whatever grade you wanted. Okay. And then part of this is of course the our ordinance under property maintenance
152 requires screening from public view of the dumpsters. You don't have that here. I I have to say trash and clo trash guys opening 18 times four gates. Does that property maintenance also
include u providing the site triangle back? Oh yeah, that's that's a property maintenance issue. But we can address that tonight. And just a note, Greg, if you could put a note on there, there's a few areas that that that is an issue. Only takes one area for the accident.
Oh, yeah. And I tell you, I was there at I don't know, probably 1:00, walked around the site. Wow. When the school lets out, it is chaos ensues there. It's amazing what happens. I was
like, "Oh, what happened?" School school got out. Yeah. It was crazy. So really important to get those things taken care of for the safety concerns. Um item 13 enclosures just restoring those areas. Greg and you'll give a typical detail of all
those enclosures. Some of them in asphalt the posts are in there. You you'll take care of all that to restore it to sound conditions. 14 was you have buffered slightly and I don't know if you want to show that detail. It
actually was on a different plan than the landscape plan. The buffering of the units along No, it wasn't the landscape plane. So, it was the other one just
keep going. Keep going. It was this plan. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. Uh there were dumpsters that would be visible from Route 73 and they had provided some landscaping. Not sure if it's all evergreen. I want to make sure
we're evergreen. So we we would work with you, Fred, to to to buffer those. And there are two others. And again, because there is no buffering here, you can see these two structures here. you'll set out in three. I would ask that you do divide or they divide in
these large grass areas some kind of a evergreen screening or some kind of screening. Again, evergreen only along the highway, not inside because of the police matter, but something more is required there. Uh it was there originally and it's just not there now.
So that goes back to the beginning of the conversation. And the last thing really is the uh some more clarity on the plan. I would work with Greg with that. So that's that's not a big deal. They provide three species of trees throughout
in a way that's a little bit of a monoculture which is when when a tree dies like all the ash trees in the northeast die. Some sites I know have all ash trees well the whole sites bid vegetation. So just to get more native species and a
variety of species and that's Greg, you can work with me on that. We'll come up with something. Then there was the site triangles and the MTCD. That's what I have. Is that all? That's all for now unless you have questions.
So okay, any questions afraid on the engineers presentation? Mr. Chairman, I I'd like to call I know there was a request to have someone from the the the association come up. Yeah. I I was going to ask you to do
that if you wanted to. Yes. So they could be sworn in and they could talk about maintenance as well as any other topic you want to talk about. Raise your right hand, please. Raise your right hand. Please sir, do you swear or affirm testimony you give
tonight will be the truthful truth truth? I do. And your name, sir? Gil River. And And Gil, what can you tell the board who you are and what your role and function is with Camson? Gil, could you move that microphone closer, too?
Thank you. I'm the vice president of development for the company in charge of uh new developments and also existing uh projects within um the campson portfolio. Again, I'm going to ask you to you talk very softly. Could you move that please closer to you?
Closer. A little bit closer. How's that? Is that better? Okay. Okay. Now, sing a song. Which one would you like? Um, so Gil, a couple questions um that I'd like to address with you. There were several pictures that were up of
dumpsters in in parking spots and in a um just in a state of disarray all over the place. This project is designed to eliminate that condition. Correct. That's correct. Okay.
um in terms of maintenance um is is the Campson group if um as one of the board member members mentioned as a condition you wouldn't have a problem addressing um any broken vinyl uh around the
enclosures if it was uh uh a state of disrepair or broken would you? No, we would not. Okay. Um would you uh would you also work with whoever the appropriate trash hauler is,
the county uh or um the township spender to make sure that the dumpsters are are placed back in the appropriate uh location? Yes, we would. I I'd like to add something because I know there's been there's been some discussion in regards to that about fencing them
and closing them um in and I I really don't think that makes a whole lot of sense. Um the front door on them putting the doors on I don't think that's going to happen. Okay. All right. I I think the testimony up till now said
that's not a good idea. And and the other the other issue becomes that once those fences are open, car backs up, it gets hit, it gets scratched. Who are they going to start pointing fingers at? It's going to be at management or is it going to be at the the the uh the county
or the the town? It it creates it creates an issue that we really would like to avoid. Um Gil, last um last but not least, let let's talk about the landscaping. Sure. Um, and I I I respect uh Fred's
recommendation for the the number and and you know, you you've heard um Greg's testimony about the 39 and where they're going to be placed. I suspect um that that the management uh entrusted with you uh a certain budget
for this project. Um so what is the priority here? I is from management's perspective is is the landscaping. I I I appreciate um Fred the you know the thoughts as it relates to the master
plan but let let's talk re reality in terms of cost um and what what you're authorized to spend for this project. Sure. So, uh, we've been going back and forth probably about two years in discussing these trash enclosures with
some of the township officials and as well as with Fred. Um, and the most important thing for us was to get these trash enclosures completed for public safety. Um we've been working with the county as far as getting um additional
lock lids put on these dumpsters to avoid a lot of the issues that you had mentioned about the kids coming in throwing uh contamination problems or starting fires and things of that nature. So we think that's the most key uh element of
getting this project approved is to get these dumpsters in place so we don't have accidents. We don't have these uh dumpsters right now that are just laying in some of the parking spots. We know that it's an issue and we want to correct that. Um but when it comes to
the actual cost and when we did the first prototype, it did come out to $30,000 and that's a true number and that was about two years ago when that was completed. Uh now we've been asked to not only do the enclosures but also
to have the concrete pads inside and out um which are added costs. We spoke to the town. They asked for to put some additional lighting to prevent some of these things going on with the kids. We would put a pole with lighting on each one of those enclosures which wasn't
mentioned by Greg. Uh but that's something we would uh we would certainly do in regards to some of the areas with landscaping of those dumpster enclosures. Uh especially ones that were facing Route 73, we also would add
additional uh landscaping to that. However, with that said, the cost these capital improvements are substantial and we take pride in knowing that we don't charge our tenants in increases of
anywhere from $75 to $100 a year annual increases. uh we can't afford to turn around and say, "Okay, based on all these capital improvements that we're going to put in a thousand tree, whatever the tree amounts are, we're going to start increasing rents from $300 or or more
to, you know, subsidize these added costs. We just can't do that. We'll wind up losing a lot of tenants." Um secondly, I think, uh and more importantly, you know, we should all just use common sense here. We we know what the issue is. The issue is the
trash enclosures. No one's going no one's going to come to Fox Meadows and say, "Oh my god, look at these trash enclosures or look at all these beautiful trees." We want to invest the money on the landscaping because that's it's a it's a sighteline
issue, right? People walk in, you see landscaping in front of the the buildings, it looks pleasant. Um, as Fred had mentioned, we've already started that and it's very eye appealing and I think we want to continue that. Um, it's going to be a heck of a lot
cheaper to replace a bush or a plant than to replace, you know, a couple of hundred trees in the we don't have the irrigation system. We never had that there. Uh, so that's going to be that would become another problem. Um, and going back again to the dumpsters, um,
in regards to them being vinyl as opposed to being with the brick columns, as uh, as Greg mentioned, they're going to back up into these things and the cost of a piece of vinyl as compared to a brick column. You can do the math. You
know what's going to cost more. So I hope that uh the board will look at this and say hey you know we've they are they they are doing what what's been asked and we'd like to do it in phases uh so we can offset some of these costs but we
cannot we simply cannot uh do these added trees. It's just too much of a of a cost burden. You cannot do what? Add the the the 300 some odd trees. It's just we just can't do it. Tom, I didn't know if you had any more
questions, but I have a few for Gil. I don't. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Gil, you say that you want to have the uh the trash enclosures
such that they stay within the dumpsters themselves stay within the closure. But you had one of the prototypes. Who's watching that? I understand that and that's something that we will certainly address. Uh
but I mean is it you as a vice president or do you have people we I I will I will initiate a program to make sure that these are done with our property manager and our regional manager and we will make sure that these are taken care of. again. Um,
and it's something it's something that has to be monitored on both sides uh to make sure that the trash uh service people that are that are bringing them put them back in place that they're not just dropping them off towards the front. Right. Somebody's watching that. Correct. I'm not asking you to get out there and
move them back. Correct. You you got to make a complaint so that they follow through with that. Correct. Correct. So if you're not watching it though, driving that site, you can see no one's watching it. I agree with you 100%. Not only for the prototype, but for the
others, too. They're all over the place. Yes. And the fences are down. They're not replaced. So when you say that you're trying to look at that property, when I drive that property, it looks like somebody hasn't looked for a long time. So, you're asking me to believe you and I presume
you're telling the truth, but I don't know who you got to follow up with what you're saying. Well, Mr. Chairman, and respectfully, we've been trying to get this uh application through for the last two years um in reference to these trash enclosures and it just it kept continues
to get pushed down the road. And for whatever reason, we're here tonight. Um we will assume well Chuck can tell you all the reasons because he's been here with for most of those applications and it's it's on both sides. There are things that are required you didn't want to do them. So
you tried something else and eventually you came back saying I guess we got to do what we got to do right so let's let's go to some other things. I don't know I asked Mr. Kingsbury. Somewhere along the line,
economics costs are not supposed to be a consideration of a zoning approval. Am I right? I would not say categorically that you're right. I think cost is always a factor.
But I you can't have somebody say, "I can't afford this, therefore I have to do X." Right? You can, but you can turn them down on that basis. Okay. So, when you tell me that you don't want to raise the rent any more than $100 or
$75 to $100 and you think that this will cause you more, I know Fred has asked for a certain number of trees. I haven't heard anybody give me a number between Fred's number and the 30 that's being proposed.
So, when you look at one, it might be excessive and you look at the other, it may be underachieving. So, and you could do this in phases. You don't have to do it today. Every six months, you could have something. Every one year, you could have something as
long as you commit to it. This is a Maple Shade community. And when I look at it, it looks like an inner city community. So, what you need to do is you got to say, what do I need to bring the quality of life up to all the people that we rent to? And I'm looking for you
not to say I can't do it. Is I'm looking to you to say, how can I do it? work with work with Frey. So what's the alternative and do you make that commitment? Well, the alternative was to do the additional landscaping around the three sides of the buildings, the plantings
and the bushes. That doesn't address the trees. So what's your alternative there is what I'm asking. But that's but that's I'm asking you to put on record what your alternative is. If you don't have one, you don't have one. We don't have one. That's we don't have one. It's you know, we we came up with those trees and we came up with the
plantings. Um, and as we said, we're uh we're our focus is to get these dumpster enclosures completed because we think that's the major issue. Okay. I'm going to ask Mr. Kingsbury when they're presenting the application for the dumpsters, is it the right of
the board to consider other things for conditions of approval? Yes. And the big issue of course is landscaping. Uh the problem is you don't have a historical record of what was approved
with the original application. There's no site plan on file. So we don't know what was required originally. The uh applicant is proposing 39 new trees.
The recommendation from Fred is 320 trees. So I I think requiring them to plant 320 new trees would probably be considered excessive and there should be a compromise worked
out between those two numbers. And that's what I'm trying to do. Mr. Chairman, another option could be to phase it over five years, six years. This site is sat for 50 years. And I know the applicant has indicated
taking two years to come in, but it didn't take two years to get to that condition. So, but we can't leave this meeting without some definitive thing for the resolution. So, that's what I'm asking the applicant.
I'm asking the engineer to say what's a reasonable number and what's the reasonable phasing in of that number. Mr. review. How about six years and it's 50 trees a year. You were going to do 39.
How is that? That gets us to 300, but it gives you six years to do that. I could probably agree to 200 as opposed to 300 over a six year period of time. We're bargaining over a car here. Well, it's
kick the tires. We're kicking tires, but it's um Well, I'm going to ask in that. You haven't established it and have a suggestion here. Whoever makes the motion, I'm going to ask them to state a number of trees and and a number of
years for phasing it in. And you can say I reject it or not. That's fine. just I I just want I Bob I want that opportunity. I I I'm not leaving here with a no tonight. Right. So I think we're trying to work I I I I you've made it abundantly clear,
Mr. Chairman. Just can I just add something real quick? Um I think if it's phased in over a number of years, you're going to have the death of those trees happen over a number of years, 50 years down the road. So Fox Matter or whoever is going to own
them at that time, um um they're not going to be hit with such a monetary impact 50 years from now when the trees start going cuz that they'll be going one year then. as long as you keep up,
as long as you maintain them as you're going along and you don't just let them, you know, go to go to pod, so to say. Do you understand what I mean? I have a question. Yes, I'll be there.
Um, we were told there's um 1,498 units, correct? 490. Right. Um, what is your typical rent for a
one-bedroom unit? I'm a realtor, so I already have a figure in my mind. What is your typical rent for a onebedroom? It's about $1,500. How about a twobedroom?
We're at $1,700. All right. Well, I just did a round figure. I used uh an average of 2,000. So my figure might be a little bit more than reality,
but from my figure using $2,000 a month, that's almost $3 million a month that your complex has taken in. So three times 12, of course, would be 36 million
a year. And I would like to thank Fred for your wonderful presentation. I mean, this is not just a store with a dumpster behind it. This is a community. It's a way of living for these people.
There are children there. I have to applaud you for the community center and the new pool. Okay. My thoughts are maybe the number of trees are excessive.
My thoughts are to go half half the number of trees phased in over three years and then perhaps the remaining three years afterwards you can do the other half but certainly
economics I do not believe is a factor here. We're talking about people that live in your community. They look out their windows every day. They walk up to your apartments every day. This is their
living. This is their little space. And I think we should have concern about that. I really think we should. And I hope you will compromise. Sure. And I and I appreciate that. Um,
but we also trying to invest a lot of money, capital improvements into the apartments. Um, so that's something that's Well, I think in a way that was long delayed. Well, yes. So now it's on top of you to begin with.
So Tom, I'm hearing that there's a 300 number, there's a 550 number phased in over a number of years. You said you earlier you wanted me to it's a community give you a feeling as to what the board was thinking. I think they're doing that
now and I don't know how you feel about that. Um Mr. Chairman I I I I think um I think Mr. Rivera is prepared to commit to 33 trees a year over six years for 200 trees. 33
I I just did the math. It's 33 and you call 34 if you'd like. at at over six years. 34 what? Trees. 200. 34 trees. No, that's too 200 trees over six years.
So, say that one more time so we can digest it. Okay. 34 trees u time six gets us to 200 trees every six years. Mr. Mr. Chairman, if I could, just because we're talking about
numbers, trees I'm recommending are various trees. Ornamental trees are half the price of large shade trees, uh, the columnar trees that we talked about. So, every tree has a different number, but the ornamentals that were in the front
yard that we spoke about, they would be less than half the price of, and again, that depends on the size that you're going to install. They could put one and a half inch caliber trees. We didn't speak about that. Typically, it's a two and a half inch caliber tree. They could
cut that price in half just by putting little tiny twigs in. So, we didn't specify anything along that side. Greg did have some sizes on the 39 trees. Correct. They were 2 and 12 inch. So,
they were all the larger trees that they had specified um shade trees that we would see typically along a roadway. But I had mentioned in the front yards that there were crab apples, dog woods, and we all have or have seen them in our house, our kids' houses or our parents'
houses. Uh so I just want to put that we were talking about numbers. So I just wanted to make sure you're aware that those numbers which could be half if not more would be a reduced cost. It wouldn't be the same as a large shade tree. I just want that demonstration. A little baby trees like I don't know
$200 $300. You have any idea what half would be? uh a tree on average. Uh sure. Again, it everything's variable with how many you buy, but typically an ornamental tree would installed would be $200. A shade tree
probably $400. They're cost or again quantity, right? You're only talking, you know, you're talking like lower. What are we talking about? $10,000. Yeah. Um you you Mr. Chairman, you asked us to if there was a middle ground here, right?
And it may not be quite middle. We we we were at 39 trees period about a half an hour ago and I your own engineer even said five years. So I I took it to six years, right? And we went
from 39 trees to 200 trees. So I'm I'm hoping that the board recognizes the spirit of compromise here. may not be ideal, but I don't want the board to lose sight of why we're here is for the dumpsters. Um, I can ask for the picture
of the dumpster to come back strewn all over and that's not the board's fault. Um, that's maybe management needs to be more vigilant, but here's an opportunity to really address something that's pressing concern out there. Well, I don't know why 30 like 39 or
what every 34 can't become 50. I I appreciate that, but it's it's 200 is what my client has said. I think we have discussed the numbers enough. I know the dumpster situation. I think we're all in agreement that it should be
corrected. So, somebody on the board, if they would like to can make a motion. You got a public question. Sorry. Yeah. Question on a question. Got so much in the numbers forgot the public. Would anyone in the general public like to speak for or against this
motion or this application? Can I ask a question? There you are. Hear me? Raise your right hand, please. You swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth. Whole truth, nothing but the truth. I do.
Your name, please. Heather Taller Rico. T A L A R I C O. You need my address as well. What's your first name? Heather. Heather. Say it. Heather. H E A H E R.
Okay. You need my address or No, that'd be good. Yeah. 553 Cutler Avenue. I'm also the mayor of the town in case you need to put that on record. I do have a question. The dumpsters in
pink Gil, are there around the outside? Correct. Dutch. No, I'm talking about the plan that I had. You had green old pink new. Correct. Sorry, I was in the back. That's correct. So, the pink is along the out the outer.
So they're less visible than the current ones is what I'm looking at. I didn't I haven't been through here in a in a while. So So they're out. So the outer perimeter. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. And also the the tree situation. Um, Fred, the number you came up with, I know you talked about shrubbery and bushes and everything. That's totally separate in your 300 and some.
Yes, the 300 number came from I have a plan that's marked up if I presented. No, that's fine. But in the front yard where you'll see the sidewalk areas, it was basically every other to put the ornamental trees back. Okay. And then on the corners to put the
larger diameter trees, the shade specimen, you know, that type of thing. And then along Route 73, that also included some pines or evergreens along 73. Okay. Where it's just right. Okay. Because I know when I was at Site Plan, you also mentioned certain bushes
and shrubbery and, you know, there were issues there with the police. So, I didn't know if we could kind of I don't know. I personally would like more landscaping than a tree. Um, looks a little nicer. So, I didn't know if there was any way to
Well, they're putting all the foundation plantings in. That was a separate plan. Um, the shade trees really are to provide you a visual uh accommodation, so to speak, and to help the grass grow and everything. Okay. It's It's pretty stark out there right
now. Yeah. I I just think 300. I just think that number is high personally. That's just my opinion. That's all. I was just curious where you came up with that number. come in and said 600. I came in being I mean the last number I heard was 100 and then it was 44 on the plan. So now we're at three something and I I was
just curious where that number came from. I guess two. Well, you're at two. He's at three. I didn't address you yet. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So I I think I think that was all. Thank you. Thank you. Can I use this couple safety questions
in a moment? General public portion of the meeting. Is anyone else in the general public would like to speak for or against the application? I'm going to close the public portion of the meeting. Michael, what did you have? Sir. Yes.
You're a VP. How many years you've been in with your corporation? I've been with them uh 14 years now. Okay. My first question is, and you're going to get upset, and you're going to get upset because this has something to do with the dumpsters. Safety questions.
Back in the day, you used to have a security patrol out there. Guy would run around like Kmart and all these malls with a little yellow light. The dumpster fires were down. The vandalism was down.
And I know you're worried about money would that's your job. How far out of the west be to get that security back? Cuz our cops are taking off the streets of Michael Shade itself
going into nickel and dime stuff in Fox Meadow. So that takes the safety out of the town and puts it into Fox Meadow. With all due respect, you know, Fox Meadow is part of the township. I understand that pays understand a lot of money in taxes for police to also go
through there. And by the way, we're going to set this topic aside, okay? Because it does not have anything. This board member is aware that over the last so many years, the police department has requested and Fox Meadow has installed license plate readers,
cameras. They've upgraded Wi-Fi so that it connects directly into the police department. So they have 247 access to the video screens to the license plate readers at a cost to the applicant.
I can I finish now being you so rudely interrupted me. Michael. Michael, that's not a topic for this. Okay. Application number two. If it's a topic for this application, forget it.
Everybody else ask questions, but that'll be fine. You can ask questions about the dumpsters. You can ask questions about the shrubbery, the trees, anything you want to, but whatever. We've been here a long time. I'm going to ask the board. I'm going to make a motion.
Uh, I think um we're in agreement with the dumpster situation and of course the attorney can reiterate where we're at there. But as far as these trees are concerned, I see no reason, no reason at
all, common sense, no reason why this amount of trees can't be planted over five or six years. I see no reason whatsoever. Joanne, make your motion. What is it? That is my motion. It
over six years um the uh engineers recommended number of trees will be planted within the community and of course that would be and what is that number? What number does you have?
Sir, it's identified in the letter on 361. I don't think it's that right. 361. And I I just want to I'll specify it on sheet uh page two of our October 6 letter. It is recommended trees in phase one is 100
plus 16 in the rear yard. I'm not sure if that has been addressed. 50 trees in phase two with 10 in the rear yard and then 111 in phase three. That's the largest area with 33 in the rear yard. They were the recommendations in the
letter on page two. Joanne, is that your motion? That's my motion. The trees and also the trees in the rear yard. Fred, over what? How many years was that? Six years, you said. Six years. Is there a second? Just so everybody's aware.
Pardon me. 320 trees. Over six years. 320 is the number. Is there a second? I'll second. Karen seconds the motion. Roll call, please. Mr. Chairman, uh I I
respectfully uh we are withdrawing our application. You can skip the vote. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Shame Robert, do we have any resolutions? Yes. Okay, I believe so.
September 10th meeting. Pardon me. You want to do the resolutions? Whichever one you want to do, first resolutions. I normally do minutes last. Did we have any resolutions from last year?
We did. Yes. Resolution granting variance, bulk variants, and motorcycle approval, solar panels. Oh, yeah. You know what? Do you have a copy of that, Susan? Okay, we have one resolution from last
month. It was for Solar Landscape LLC. The property is 593 Route 38 in the BD zone. It's a 5.4 acre lot. The applicant's proposal was to install roof
mounted solar panels and a ground level supporting equipment uh area. And the variances requested were use variance for the solar panels and the location of the ground level equipment. There was
extensive testimony about the benefit to the community and the fact that the land use law encourages solar and makes it u a permitted use uh not a permitted use but it makes it a
uh satisfying special reasons for use variance. Uh there was testimony from Courtney Breeze who is the manager for Solar Landscape about what their project does and how they cooperate with PSG.
The project engineer introduced exhibits showing the site locations. Uh there was uh testimony from uh Andrew Janu, professional planner who has 27
years experience and he testified about the benefit benefits and lack of negative uh impact. There are no comments in the public. Uh the board found that the uh applicant was convincing about the
benefits of this program and it approved a use variance with the related uh positioning variance for the for the ground level equipment which needed a sideyard variance.
uh the conditions where the planting of new trees and a screening plan would be approved by the board engineer and uh the board the applicant also received a minor site plan approval for the
project. So the eligible voters are Ray, Bevich, Koserachi, Reeves, Stevens, and Gee. You hear that, please? Okay. Is there a motion? Motion to approve.
Motion reading. Seconded by I'll second. Miss Bevich. Is that you? Yes. Okay. Roll call, please. Do you need this for roll call? That's Susan's copy. Beich approved. Mr. Kazerachi approved. Mr. Stevens
approved. Miss Raiden approved. Chairman Gates approved. Mr. Chairman, on that resolution, the applicant called me earlier this week. We met at the site and as far as landscaping, they more than doubled what we were even looking to do. They wanted
to do the right thing. They're also replacing the fence that was a little bit of uh damage and looked like somebody was trying to sneak in there. They were willing to do whatever. Oh, do you want me to sign that one? was necessary. Is there one in front of you too? There should be one with little stickies on
Could be. Maybe. And just so the board knows, they want to have this completed by the end of the year. That's their goal. So, uh, the minutes, we need a motion to approve the minutes made, Mr. McGee. I thought they were the best m I ever saw.
Seconded by Michael Stevens. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed. You'll never be able to write them like that. Okay. Uh before we ask for adjournment,
understanding that the meeting went long and there's a lot of back and forth, I'm going to ask Mr. Kingsbury to advise the board as to how we proceed with any conversations we have about this application um offline.
Should we be quiet? Well, they you should never discuss an application in the outside the context of the meeting, but they withdrawn the application. So, there's really nothing to discuss. Uh there is
well there is but you should not do it except in the meeting and you should not do it except the applicant being present. Okay. So we are so charged. Yes. Okay. Okay. Uh we need a motion to adjurnn.
Everybody needs to go home. Kyle has something. You do have something. I'm sorry. I just have a question on the ordinance that we've been enforcing against every other commercial property. Now that they've withdrawn their application, their plan is not to do this dumpster
location. So, I mean, they're in violation. They're going to get a violation just like everybody else. Well, that that's really an administration thing. Yeah. I'm just making the board aware that the violation will go out just like everyone else got.
I like it. Okay. So, motion to adjurnn. Mr. G, seconded by Michael Stevens. All in favor signified by I. I oppose. Yeah, you know.