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okay good all right we're going to call the meeting the order please rise for the pledge of Alle United States of America to the stands one nation under God indivisible withy and justice for all all right public notice of this
meeting pursuant to the open public meetings act has been given by the township Council in the following manner notifying the Township Clerk December 27 2024 mailing notice to the carrier post the central record and Burlington County Times on December 27th 2024 and posting notice on the official Municipal
bulletin board on December 27th 2024 um we ask everyone to place the all their phones on mute to alleviate any disruptions roll call Mr coffin M NES here Mr Simon here Mr zadnik Mayor
talico here may if we could just for the record that uh councilman Koffman and councilman zarnik are on their way so okay and we are going to start with the capital budget discussion right to start okay okay uh
so you were all given a copy of our capital budget um similar doesn't I know it doesn't look a lot like what our general operating budget discussion last week but you'll see that this year um how we break it down is we're broken down into what our staff has asked so
and and what they what they need or what they feel that they're going to need for the upcoming year in our capital expenditure so you have facilities which includes things here with the municipal complex improvements and other facility Renovations Municipal computers and related equipment and we go into public
works which is for the acquisition of various equipment and tools various improvements to storm drainage system and Inlet repairs we have improvements to recreational facilities and acquisition of equipment and then we go into public safety which is our fire acquisition of vehicle and equipment and
then acquisition of various and equipment and gear for them our first aid same thing acquisition of vehicle and various equipment and acquisition of equipment and gear and then our police their vehicles related equipment and then police computers and related equipment this year as well we also have police various facility
improvements and acquisition of equipment that's for the jail cells that were required to um improve we are no longer we no longer get those waivers from the state so we are mandated to make those uh improvements is that the codes that they have put into place
what's this is that new codes they put into place for so there are every year they're they always update them but for the last several years we've been able to get a waiver just because of how old our building is but then you get to a point where like our jail cells we cannot get that waiver anymore basically the state comes down and says Nope
you've got enough waivers you have to adhere to um policy so that program uh that project is already uh in design and we're just waiting so under the estimated total cost you'll see what we're we're proposing for each um each of those lines with a total General
capital of 2,45 million $245,000 um then you'll see a line item that says CIF that is capital Improvement fund that is the 5% deposit that we need to have um to put towards our um Capital uh program so and then
you see the debt authorized of of basically uh how much debt we would need to take on in the capital program so that is what the capit toal budget um line items go on you know as far as what their amounts are and and what everybody's asking for we also gave you
the supporting documents um to show you what each uh basically we have the various Road improvements where we are looking and where what we have so far you'll see some our ordinances from previous years um and as Andy was kind of mentioning just a little bit before the meeting that we put holds just so we
know that we have that money set aside but as far as roads go we are looking at another 1.8 and a half million dollar um that we would be authorizing this year for different roadways well actually so what what I do with these schedules these are
what we have currently in ordinances plus I put the new one in for roads only okay all right and the 1.8 is available um currently in older ordinances okay and this year's is the
700,000 and that's the North terce gotcha okay with the grant sorry got it no no problem so why don't you take you might as well just take over from there too so okay yeah it's um the first sheet I gave is what the
capital plan is that has to go it's required to go into the annual budget document that we uh will be introducing in two weeks um and that's all the projects that Sue had gone through we try to take everyone's capit requests
into consideration but then also uh understand the the constraint that we have on the CIF or the capital Improvement fund which is the 5% down payment because we put um 50,000 in this
budget I had 37,000 left over so that's what the note saying the maximum that we can uh have in that column the maximum 5% monies that we have available is 87,8 so this budget takes it right to the max
I'm at 865309 so I guess it depends on the priority of the situation right right so like and I don't mean to interrupt to Andy but so like first aid you'll see that there's $10,000 Rob had come and said that he really doesn't this year he doesn't see that he needs anything um we've set him
up so there wasn't a need there's not a need to put a big dollar line item there obviously the police department we talked about with the facility improvements but there also there's a Fleet Maintenance program um that they're on where they you know every so many years or every year they buy so many vehicles because the vehicles are
run so often um so those sorts of things uh same thing Public Works Public Works we've set up pretty well they've gotten the equipment they I think they've already done a truck from last year so we're just moving forward on some you know some additional they need tools we
need mowers this year so um and then of course the uh the storm drainage and also the um yeah that's all kind of lumped together that was um that's really for North Terrace mm should make the I'll make the description better but
that's really the road project and the column out to the right so the project is estimated to be 700,000 by the engineers we have a an NJ do Grant Award of $233,400
so and then if you back off the 5% down payment the debt authorized on that project is only 444,000 okay so that's what you know what that's trying to say and then the the supporting sheets the um road
projects those are like I said those are previous ordinances the leftand column has the year of the ordinance or actually the ordinance number but we number them by the years and you can see um and what I'm doing is like it's what
we have available as of the end of 2024 and then I'm just saying possible road projects possible 2025 project s and these are grants that I know we have um but we haven't bid the project yet so I'm setting aside the money just in this
spreadsheet I'm setting the side of M the money that um the engineers estimating the project is going to cost when they do do a bit and hopefully we'll be um close to his estimates or their
estimates so this the road schedule has uh the different grants broken down you can see and then I have a little bit uh left over just in case uh front and Alexander is two state grants so I just had a little extra there then the very
bottom line is 1.8 million is available for miscellaneous roads so if there are small road projects that the Public Works can do or if there's a somewhat larger project that you want to bid um
it's just you know we hadn't we don't have a grant for it but we have some extra Mone and some of that is um again we started the program a couple years ago where we did the miscellaneous road projects where we look several areas of town and we wind up doing a Mill and overlay it's some say that it's a
Band-Aid others say that no it's at least it extends the life of the road but also one of the other roads we were looking at was Farnsworth and what we had spoken with um Alo about so that's one that's basically falling apart too and these they're going to be getting us a quote for that okay so basically this
year looking at Terrace um and then Farnsworth and then if we do some miscellaneous roadways where we'll do some Mill uh patch work we Mr I did then I just had this similar sheet
for H storm drains we oh so we had talked uh we'll probably do Cutler Avenue I believe need storm drain work so there's after considering that there's there's probably almost
275,000 left in older ordinances for storm dream work and that work we're looking again as Andy just said Cutler Avenue and then Thomas Avenue is what we're looking at Thomas so okay so Thomas on that person thank you problem oh
yeah wellknown problem y yeah Cutler just doesn't seem to be getting any better um behind there and then Thomas the same thing the guys go in DPW goes in they clean out the you know the the Swale is what it is but we have we've already spoken with a Lio about it we
sat down with them last week and went through everything so they're going to go out and give us an adjust give us a proposal and an estimate was that a shared service last year with the county to work together on those lines are we tried if you remember previously we did
on Thomas we had asked um about having those lines videoed and jetted um that was back in 2019 and the cost came in at like $37,000 when we spoke to Rick last week he said he needed to go back he was going to go back and just and really look at that because it feels that maybe
that wasn't the initial way to go so we're going to kind of start from I don't want to say from the beginning but we're going to start where we were in 2019 and really and really work through that the issue there too is we don't have easements behind any of the properties so it makes it difficult we have to go on to all these properties to
get in there to you know not only to video but if we needed to put some sort of um they don't mind I'm sure at their property whenever you want So yeah so we'll wind up probably doing a lot of easements over there once we know what it's going to be we'll have to put some
sort of Municipal easement in okay in in both areas Thomas and and color so then the uh the next two sheets are just um the current ordinances or you know previous year's ordinances for police and fire just to give you an idea
of what they still have out there um available for their use uh we are with the police we are waiting for uh bid for the jail cell work so the 400,000 for various facility
improvements that's held for that and then we have money in this year's Capital 350 I think it is so uh hopefully that covers everything when the bids come in yeah everything's so expensive I don't know anymore but
fingers crossed and the very last sheet is just this is um just a six-year Capital plan that we have to have if you're I think if your population is over 10,000 you have to do a six-year plan so it's um it's fluid it changes
every year depending on what the the hot projects are but it's just to show that um you know we we have put thought into some of these projects and how we're going to fund them over the years
and the utility like I said uh I think some of you might not have been here and Mike's might not have been off that time utility I met with um Remington and Vernick and I met with w and Karen yesterday to go over the project so I'm not even going to go over what's on the
capital budget for utility because it's it's changed um it's going to be whatever will puts on his New Jersey water quality asset reporting that he has to do because our Capital plan has to match what goes to the state on that
report okay so once I have that that's what um that's what this will be with some Sil work also and this is due to the state soon isn't it this will go in it's actually a couple of sheets in the budget documents when we introduce the
these sheets will be in there will be next meeting okay thank you anybody have any questions comments God bless
you thank you Andy thank you Susan you okay agenda oh tar didn't get agenda where did it was there thank you thank you did you steal it I
are we're going to move over to the open Board of Health meeting I was waiting for you to get back I believe it uh so for the month it's for the month of February is what we got I had uh reports of two sanitary condition issues uh one was a commercial kitchen
with cleanliness that was founded and Abad the other one was handwashing policy and procedures that one was unfounded so that's been closed out we had one dog bite uh we had uh insects cockroaches yeah an infestation of those
and then we had a miscellaneous report of a food manager CT not present on site so um but that one was also unfounded and then just the other I've been watching um the reports about The Aven flu the bird flu here in Burlington
County so we are keeping an eye on that and also measles so those are the two that uh the two but other than that that's the only thing I have on the report okay this is the public portion for the health meeting only does anybody
have anything okay motion to close submit second comments all in favor I I motion to adjourn so made second all in favor I
all right moving over to the ordinance introduction and first reading ordinance number 202-02 is an ordinance of the township of Maple Shade in Burlington County New Jersey to amend and supplement Maple Shake Township Code chapter 114 licensing and permits to add article film making motion for in
introduction so made second comments roll call Mr cofman yes M noon yes Mr Simon no Mr zadnik yes mayor T Rico yes all right publication date is
March 19th 2025 public hearing April 10th 2025 ordinance second reading and public hearing ordinance number 25-01 an ordinance amending salaries and wages of certain officers and employees of the township of Maple Shade County of Burlington state of New Jersey effective
January 1st 2025 right we have to uh open to the public anybody have any comments on the ordinance number 25-01 okay seeing none motion to close second
comments all in favor I motion to adopt so made I'm voting not to that one we didn't have a second yet I'll second that comments roll call Mr Kaufman yes M noon
yes Mr Simon sck no Mr zadnik yes mayor T yes okay this is the public portion for the consent agenda items only anybody from the public wishes to speak please come up state your name and
address seeing none motion to close made second all in favor I all right consent agenda I'm going to this in bulk resolution number 2025 d-63 through r69 motion to approve the consent agenda so
made yes comments roll calls oh sorry resolution 25- r63 yes I don't know who's writing these um I'm assuming that you didn't write these no I did not so whoever is writing
these are not writing are writing things that the fauler ACT is very clear on that this ordinance is direct directly contradicting that it's basically taking my right as a council person away all
five of us have equal power the mayor is a weak mayor system in this Township and the council sets the agenda so for this to be introduced and it to be approved it's illegal and anyone that's going to vote Yes on it at
the end of the day I'm going to go file an Ethics complaint about it to the state because the law is clear so I want it on record about that uh resolution this is just a procedural resolution it's it doesn't say that you
can't bring it if you read even number B it clearly gives each council member the opportunity to add things to the agenda it gives me the opportunity I have that opportunity granted to me as a council member and nobody can tell me that I can't speak about something and that I
can't put it on the agenda and it's not tell it's not saying that and even C says any council member can ask at the beginning of the meeting to add an item it's just it's just a procedure just for communication just so that we're not thrown things at the last minute it's literally just if we have
the agenda done through the solicitor then everybody has a fair and equal opportunity to put it on the agenda but that goes against the that goes against the municipal Clerk's code that gives specifically gives the municipal clerk the authority to write it she is she is ultimately responsible in accordance
with 3-2 of the municip she's responsible to record it she's our secretary preparation and distribution of use by municipal cler she do set the agenda but it's a core statutory duty of her yeah she does she she sets the agenda on advice from Council but all
right well so you but this policy is giving you the opportunity to to still give information what we're saying ised I shouldn't have it afforded to me the opportunity I already have that by being elected by the people of this town
correct so you're like doing me a favor and you're not doing me a favor but what's not afforded is to be able is to be getting information the day of the meeting so there's all this setting when I've asked to have it put on it's been turned down numerous times by the people that were putting this agenda together
and that took my rights away so I'm not agreeing to it and you can do whatever you want with this but as a member elected by the people if there's something I want to bring up whether it's on the agenda or not I can bring it up that's my right as a council member
period that's what the fuler law grants me so you can't listen all this is to choke down as far as I'm concerned and I'm not going to agree to it we're changing something we don't need to change it's been in operation all of a sudden we want to go through the mayor the mayor
is a weak mayor it's not just the mayor it's read this I did read it and that's my interpretation of it so I'm just putting it out there all right all right I'm not going to sit around that's not the intent of it and just to be clear that Council has had the opportunity to review this resolution and nobody
commented so I mean and you absolutely absolutely have the right to wrote no it's just that I have the right to comment here I don't have to comment and and on a computer but these no you don't have to but these are also the opportunities that we should have these discussions and when no one says anything and we don't know it it's
difficult but it's it's so that we don't go to this what about the things that I requested that didn't get put on because they were asked the day of the meeting or the that one day you came up they weren't they weren't the one you gave me the resolution the morning of the meeting this just put the procedure
in place this just puts the procedure in place I'm not going to agree to it that's fine you don't have I'm telling you what my position is call Terry Mr Kaufman yes oh I'm sorry did you have something I'd like to ask the solicitor comments on
this well I think that that the statute that that Miss Danson is referring to ads language that include at the discretion of councel that the clerk drafts the agenda at the um discretion of
councel um and uh it certainly says the draft ordinance certainly says that the agenda shall be finalized by the mayor and Township manager um so it does appear that the mayor and the township manager have the
right to determine what's on the agenda despite the fact that other council members might have a desire to have something on the agenda so I I I agree with councilman Simon sik that it's giving power to the mayor that the
statutory uh scheme does not give to the mayor because the fauler ACT says that the mayor only has the power that's contained in the fauler ACT not any additional power clearly says that and if the intent of this ordinance is to
say that the mayor and the uh and the um manager have the right to determine what's on the agenda whether other council members uh want other items on the agenda or not I think it does go beyond what the law permits then you also have 469a 91 where
it says that the governing body is to act as a body and all administrative duties come through the manager so I I don't I don't consider the agenda and administrative Duty well that's your interpretation but it I mean it is I was asked for my interpretation yes right so but I don't
but this and this resolution though isn't saying that nothing can't be put on there it's just giving timelines and time frames so that we're not getting things the day of the meeting or you know because Terry has an obligation at 48 hours before the meeting an agenda has to be hosted publicly so how do we
go about making sure that that's what happens and so that we get I I think that's really what the intent as I suggested Let It Go through the solicitor that way the solicitor knows everything that's going on it's fair to everyone and we put the time but that's not what the law states
the the law states that it goes between change things so I'm I'm offering a solution for this is just a poliy for Maple sh all it is is just a policy it's just how as how business is going to be conducted amongst the well I don't agree with the policy I feel that it's taking
my rights away and even if the policy is in effect I still have the right to bring something up under new business period that's that's the law so we're we're going around in a circle basically worrying about a policy that we don't need to worry about how about we we all
do sit down and get together collectively because I've been trying to do that and I've been getting choked down constantly with it that's the way I feel and I'm here I'm here for the people of this Township that's it that's what I was elected elected for okay roll call Mr
caufman yes Miss noon yes Mr Simon no Mr zarnik yes mayor T Rico yes I don't remember where we are all right approval of expenditure list thank you current fund bill is 3,661
29873 Utility Fund $888,888 General Capital fund 8,545 utility Capital fund $ 43,6 381 trust fund $592
7941 and the grant fund $776 to70 I have reviewed the bill above bill has submitted and recommend payment when funds are available thank you motion to approve I'll second comments roll call
Mr Coffman yes M NES yes Mr Simon s yes Mr zarnik yes mayor CH Rico yes approval of the February 2025 minutes motion to approve I'll make that motion I'll second comments roll call Mr Kaufman yes Mr
Miss NES yes Mr simonon yes Mr znik yes mayor child please go yes all right this is the public portion if anybody from the public would like to come up please state your name and your address for the record don't be afraid you you have to wait your turn Miss
capap who on David you sit in the front good evening good evening Council my name is Jane moxford uh 122 Thomas a um I'm here to support the backyard hen program um we
here in town I know a lot of people that are interested in it um I will not be having uh any hens if this passes but I will be on the hen committee I am a part of the sustainable Maple Shade
organization and um we have several people people that are interested in volunteering to help uh the most important part of the program is the educational um certification so everybody who registers who has to get a
permit uh they go through a training course and um they will learn how much work it is and and how much is involved in maintaining cleaning maintaining um proper Health standards so that's we feel that although you know
uh you may be able to get an ordinance and go through zoning we feel that having a uh an actual committee that is committed to uh the proper education um inspections and making sure
that if there are any problems they're are addressed immediately and um uh including uh proper enclosures and um you know any kind of educational or support uh that were there for them so
just wanted to um um kind of put that out there and um I will pass this over to Emily thank you hi I'm Emily uh 453 Alexander AV um I'm also in support of
changing the um way you can get pens from getting a um zoning variance to a permit process that has an that has an education requirement currently there's no education requirement and then they'd have to sit in front of a zoning board
who potentially don't know anything about raising hands so our way would have a committee that knows best practices and include an education requirement for anybody who wants to get H and it would be less costly to them
and also um we have a we know of an education you know seminar Gwen does it so you know we have all these these steps and things that we think would be just a superior process to the one that
is currently um required okay hi Amy Gordon to1 Elm Avenue um I'm also here to support uh the backyard hens um I've only lived in Maple Shade for years my previous address we did um
have hens and I I have a lot of friends in other areas that have hens and and um I support um this process with um committees and uh permits uh rather than zoning I think it makes it a little bit
better um I think that having hens gives so much um pleasure to people and if done appropriately um it's is really no harm to anybody and it does bring a lot of um good and educational um it also uh
alleviates uh little investment in the beginning to make sure that you're set up appropriately um but then at $10 a carton of eggs uh will probably pay itself off in uh no time at all um we
have neighboring um uh townships that are doing it um very well uh again it's with uh volunteer chicken advisory boards um there would be rules around it how many you can have all to be decided by uh people who know a little bit more
about got that stuff than May and of course with permits uh just as we do with dogs there would be registrations generate little Revenue um for it I don't know how much um but I imagine anything's uh better than nothing um so
I yeah so I I'm here really to support the ability to have these backyard heads thank you I actually have a question any of you can answer um good do any of you have knowledge at the last meeting it was um requested that we wait with the flu the bur flu going around do you have
any knowledge on that how that affects um I don't have the specific facts with me I I am in the medical profession and from what I've read and again I've read it I've not done the peer reviewed or or the really um serious stuff um you're we
probably less affected if Done Right cleanly managed these volunteer committees uh that will be done uh you have more to worry about with the measel I would say an Aven flow um that again I
have not done super super research on it okay um enclosures you're going to have less of uh the animals coming in uh from the wild um if you're doing a caged enclosure um so that reduces it again
it's its cleanliness um and how you treat your pets we would probably have just as much um risk of getting sick or having something come in from Foods we buy at the supermarket that's more of an
opinion based thing um I think more research would would need I'd be more comfortable doing more research on that but um I haven't heard that it's a huge risk okay thank you would the um would the committee work
with the uh land use officer to make sure that the proper distances are taken um from sidey setbacks and and the sizes of the the pens or the cops or whatever they're whatever you refer them to not to get into quite but I know we have a we have this on our old business so maybe there too because I do have some
packets of information for as well I'm not going I want to cut you off or anything like that but I'm that's fine I can call you back up if we have other question have any other questions I have a question about enforcement I I have nothing against the hens and I understand all that but who where's the
mechanism for enforcement if somebody winds up having a 100 chicken or hens and then decides to get rooster I mean where do we draw the line where I mean you want to educate them to take care of them and that's great but I mean you know Sandy last week did make a good
point about the flu right now um and that I mean I have to agree with Sandy I'm kind of concerned about that but then I think as far as you know we have to have a mechanism in place for enforcement we're going to talk about that at Old business not to cut you off
but we're going to finish public portion and then we'll go back to question well I mean they need to think about they're going to be the ones that are doing this people are going to have those questions well regular inspections and and uh inspections first and having hen uh maximum number of hens and things
like that and that it's a small number and that's where it's the lowest risk is in in um transmitting any diseases is the small number of flocks small like four to six pops so it's a huge difference between I'm not picking a number right now I really don't know
about it but I mean you know just a thought I had thank you we'll get more thought to it and put it on paper thank you thank you hello everyone good to see all of you I'm David Smith I live at 33 High
Street Maple Shade um coming up the with the board today on the train station commission um I know some of you guys have heard may have heard that before um about 10 years ago I did my Scout project up there at the the platform um
and over the course of the past 10 years me and my family and friends and the Scouts have maintenanced the inside and the decorating and pretty much the the the Museum Part of the train station um I know we got it together I know Sandy remembers uh we got it together for the
100th year anniversary and uh pretty much uh I have worked with uh Susan before on this but I know it gets very busy and and there's a lot of stuff that's been going on on the past you know 10 years so I I now I feel like it's a good time to officially approach
it and and get stuff moving get the ball rolling uh I actually have a packet for everyone if you like pass out for me uh which is some of the uh pretty much our mission statement what we want to do and everything all of
our uh our plans and uh pretty much I would like to just get this on the agenda for next uh meeting so that way it's something that we can talk about maybe getting together um okay yeah thank you for putting us together we
will read it and come back to you all right thank so I have a question David yes uh what are you asking for from us just permission to do this so permission yeah so we like I said me and my family we've been doing uh this unofficially for the past 10 years to you know we put the decorations up we work with the Boy
Scouts and pretty much uh back when I did my e Scout project the Historical Society backed out of the train station um understandable you know it's a lot of work uh we kind of took that on and we've never really had a vessel to be able to officially do projects
maintenance um and you know further the the area into more of a park for visitors and you know a nice place for kids to go and a safe place for kids to go so uh that's this is this is pretty much our way of trying to make it more official so we can continue to do those
things legally do you know if the scouts still meet there so the scouts do meet there that is still their home um and I know the uh the township is still maintenancing the building I go in I see the updated fire and and everything like that which is good um but yeah know the scouts are in there and everything is up
to date so and the township doesn't own that building we release that building from from conre yeah so we do have an agreement in place with them um and there's certain um there's certain requirements that we have to meet and certain things that allowed to be there this would so definitely I'll make sure for the next meeting that we have all
that information to I to it that's all right and so like I said yeah we've been talking about it for a while you know Susan and I talked about it for for a little while but again this is just I'd like to get it zoned in so that way we can you know continue to do what we like to do thank you thanks so much Susan you
said you have an agreement with Conrail we do have a Le a lease or it's an annual yeah it's an annual lease we renew it yeah I I think this year's fee is like $400 is what we pay I wasn't concerned about the fee I was concerned about the length how long do we have it in in
forever I can't get the word out um but yeah it's uh it's one it's just as long as we're going to maintain it and it's going to be used as a um as a like a community center type event then they will still allow us and then we maintain the ground like we just had an issue actually though there was a um pipe
there that the cover had come off so we worked with with them to come out and they repaired that but we do the building maintenance H vac all that I just want to make sure I don't want his project to be in vain and they take it from that's yeah no that's why I said I'm going to reach out to them and just say that this is what we're kind of looking at we want to have further
discussion right and you know this commission wouldn't be putting a strain on it being a public building obviously we want people to use it we would just probably be more of a liaison between the Bo and you know people that want to use the building and that's kind of the way we want to go and that's what the
the end is for yeah I just wanted to make sure that we can keep doing it for a while yeah and as far as the maintenance concerned um when Main Street had it that was but I was in the beginning few beginning years it was 2008 had a new roof put on and our
volunteers had scraped it painted it and did all that good stuff there so that at least you have and fox did the roof so which is and again these are I would like to work with other committees in the you know to get more information and I know we're going to need a new roof right now
looking so I'll gather some more information directly from Conrail North J Transit so we can have a good conversation the next the next meeting than thank you thank you David M did you have anything you were the only other one that stood up so
don't I don't know if this is the right we in public yes we are I don't know if this is the right and there's not any disrespect to anyone sitting up here but I have a question and so I'm trying to understand the whole thing and I know the IFC comes UPS every other day if not
week at the meetings and I just want to understand and be educated so I have been going on reading all the different Court things to just be educated myself to read it for myself and to try to understand it to be a little bit more educated and I no disrespect to you but
I just have a question so when I was reading it today I'm trying to figure out and I just I I just want clarification because I'm not really I'm not good with this so I know it seems that Amanda filed a so I know you said
you recruit yourself but so she can still represent part like um just the way that it read it kind of was confusing for me and I just I don't know if this was the right platform I don't know how to ask but I just want clarification I don't know what you're referring to what document can I show
you sure I just I just want to understand because I really don't understand which document is it it's a notice of motion for leave to file a third amended verified complaint so by educate myself going
back like it's it's a lot to take in my firm doesn't represent the IFC in this any longer and they don't represent Andrew Simon senior in it any longer we represent Tuckerton Volunteer Fire Company and Dale edgert okay and this is
just in response to uh an interchange change between the Township's lawyer and Amanda there was some confusion about whether the township of Maple Shade is still in this case and they're not okay that's what I was I'm just trying to get
VI they're not in the case thank you sorry I just that's okay confusing no problem anybody else in the public have anything seeing seeing none [Laughter]
you snuck right in front of him too Jo 39 Lan Road hand first y I have one fter take we'll share we'll share you
can send first thing I would like you to know is that I always try and go through prop CHS like I'm not going to come to the council with something if I haven't been to see other
people I've done all the challs I've done The Zing board the engineer I've done the dedc I've been through it all so I want you to know that right up front I've
also been to the chip manager who has been helpful I've met with Susan a couple times okay along the way I've been told along the way I've been told I more or less have to stay in my
Lane all right and I can do that to a certain point but once it reaches a certain point I'm going to switch lanes and I might even jump over the curb except on the real roads Chief okay I do drive
carefully it has reached that point we are here for the residents of Maple Shade and the businesses of Maple Shade I serve many years on Main Street
Maple Shade I am a realtor I have rented many properties on Main Street and throughout the town and the process has more or less gone very
smoothly well we have major ruts in the road which I have discussed like I told you with the various departments but it's reached a point where I don't know if the council is
aware of what's going on because something needs to change I have been given the impression that okay the Township's doing the business a favor
by bringing letting them bring in a tenant so now the tenant or the owner has to give something back to the township well they give it back they pay
taxes and I'm specifically talking right now about a business owner who has been in this town for 70 years and they are abusing this person in my opinion they
are abusing him they act like he has a dilapitated building standing on Main Street and you have the pictures in front of you that's the most prominent Corner in our
town I think it's well kept I think it's well kept all right so you know the building we're talking about and like I said the process used to be much easier I don't know what changed
it I think there's three words something it died you were too long I think there's three words we have to really look at the definition of
change in use we need to find out I've asked for a very detailed description changing use we know what businesses are permitted on Main Street so the process should be simple
just keep going good all right just speak loud we got you I can get loud too I used to be a teacher all right and if you have a commercial business business you should be able to place I've placed in and out of that lsh
building on the corner never had a problem all right it started out with the Mexican restaurant all right they were approved in May to go into one of those
units well y let let me go more battery keep going to if you just put this I don't think it reaches yes okay we'll see if this works now we're in the month of March well quite frankly I could have had a baby by now
okay so we really need to work through the process I understand there's a committee that's going to be formed and I'm very happy to hear about that but it needs to be done
ASAP we can no longer keep businesses out of our town we can't do that I Venture how many businesses have applied and never ever reached the planning
board all right so the Mexican restaurant I know it took a lot of time for Timeless venue last year to get approved now oddly enough crypted toys and collectibles they went right
in and they're right in that same building okay we have another person who's very interested in coming into the corner and they've been through a hard time with it they were at a meeting in
December where they were treated a little rude and and I was too all right so we kind of backed away the antonellis worked on the property and the other person came
back we went to see the zoning officer sent him to an attorney and Susan's not even aware of this part but the attorney called me the other day and said we were basically
told not to come because they're not issuing any Co to anybody within that building and it's all over if you turn the page to the
second picture it's all over that parking lot which attorney called you mat able so the applicant's attorney yes the applicant's attorney we were basically
told not to come I'm not wasting the client's money so that was put to him in very very abrupt terms so what's wrong with the parking lot well look at the picture can you tell what's wrong didn't that go to
planning no was it planning it went excuse me was it planning or zoning because you're on you're on zoning I'm zoning we we were going to appear before planning advis advisory planning so what were they told were
they did they go to planning to find out what they had it to do with the parking well the Mexican restaurant did and initially the anois were going to put the dumpsters on the grass but after they found out it was
going to cost some $25,000 to do everything they wanted to do they said well we not keep things the same it's been that way for what 70 years so we not keep it that way I'm sorry it's
really 50 years okay why not keep it the same that way there's no big deal so they went out and they bought that blue dumpster well they didn't buy it but they arranged for a bigger dumpster they're going to arrange for
striping of the parking lot they know what to do he was a contractor for heaven's sakes he built that building he built it when he was younger or had a crew do it I think the cin were
involved I think they were involved also okay he knows what to do but now they want a whole new site plan why do you need a whole new site plan if everything's going to be the
same he had to produce his original site plan which he did we already have one it's in place he's not adding one to the building all he's doing is putting a bigger dumpster out there and striping
the parking lot wanted him to get an architect wanted him to get a new site plan it's ridiculous okay so when I went to this meeting in December I had all the drawings with me they refused to look at
them they refused they said you have to file an official application for us even to look at the drawings they didn't they wouldn't even take them with them this was a site plan meeting yes and this was the one in
December and I believe that um Mr sarnik was there also all right so what I'm asking for at this point some of these things can be solved behind doors I want my client to be able to come to
that advisory meeting on April 1st and be heard I want him to be able to come there and I am asking for the council's permission is that how it works I don't
think you need our permission well I don't who was telling him in this building that he couldn't come to a a nonformal open meeting well the attorney was told there's no sense coming because you're
not getting a see up all right well that's an open meeting for anyone to come to it's a it's it's a informal meeting for them to show and present to the site board so they can give them advice on whether it needs to go to
planning zoning and to get prepared for that to go do it so for anyone in this building to tell them not to bother that's beyond my comprehension if they have real estate in this town they're more than welcome to walk in this building anytime they want and and have
a conversation with any of those boards so I was at that meeting okay um just for another client and um what the site plan board told Joanne was that they were not going to listen to The Proposal because there wasn't an application
filed and then there had to be an application filed and we have a new site plan now board now I'm sorry we have a new site plan board yes we do okay so see in April excuse me but yes I mean this
fellow Matt was filing an application put on the agenda for this person okay it's not been my experience that c plan absolutely required an agenda uh I'm sorry an application it it had been my experience in the past that they would listen to a concept and give feedback
that's always been my understanding yes that you could just someone could just walk in and it's preferred that they have an application but as councilman Simon SE said it's it's an open meeting like it's one it's not required it's not a requirement for but we've already had two people walk in without yeah you know
being on I know as we had discussed like April 1 is the meeting so if if there is an application I'll be at that meeting P will be away so get me everything and I will make sure of it but yeah they can come in can can I ask what the other two
pictures are Joanne excuse me what other these are just interior pictures the other two on here oh the other two pictures they were questioning they were going off on this one client that wants to come in uh because they pictured
cardboard just flying all over the parking lot and he assured them as you could see from the pictures that the cardboard can be kept inside until it's disposed of can I uh
what was your client proposing to uh make the facilities for the trash better is that what his proposal was because the building was yes the owner of the building that's correct he already did
the um larger dumpster I'm confused who's your client the owner of the building or the or the Mexican restaurant both I think she's just referring to The Mex I think the confusion lies where they already had a problem with the Mexican restaurant coming on and and
they actually had to do certain things cuz that did go to planning and all all all that so that's where the confusion lies so this other property on the corner that's coming in if the other things were already having a problem with certain things I think probably that's where the confusion lies you know
one thing wasn't totally complete and it took so long to get to where we are now that the Mexican restaurant is finally opening I mean I think it's just uh maybe maybe communicating that there's something that hasn't been at this point I think it might even be my guess that's my
guess a personality Conflict at this point it's like a tug of war and it needs to be solved so if any of you you are the specialist have an idea of how we can all sit down and solve this uh it's for
the betterment of the community we're here to serve the people okay we're not here to have a tug of war Behind the Walls okay and I'm a Shader I'm all for
helping people I volunteer different organizations but this needs to be solved it needs to be solved the process to me in this particular case is ridiculous you put a larger dumpster out
there you stripe the parking lot and you should be done with it it you know instead of paying Architects and everyone else for site plans that you already have well it it could be you know you don't know because it could be what the engineers need so you know a
lot of complies have changed since he built that building so there's so much more to it so you have to really well if I have to and I've told people this before I've done it before when they said we couldn't put cones on Main Street well if you ride
down Main Street the cones are there I will go to the county myself where I will go to the state and I'm going to find out the information that I need to know in order to
bring minimum requirements to bring a business into our community because what we're doing is wrong it has to be
simplified I will do that you just give me the word and I will do it okay thank you Joan anybody else from the public please come up and state your name and your address for the record microphone don't break the
microphone r that much I like it good evening Steve Schmidt 520 Sunset Avenue um I have a few issues I'd like to bring up I was unable to attend last month or last last meeting um Miss mcdow's January Bill to the township is my first issue she build
work for the Historical Society lease and the work on a fire department ordinance this bill was submitted prior to the council even discussing these issues the Historical Society lease had a meeting scheduled by Council after the bill date and the idea of working on a
new fire department ordinance was brought up by councel and shot down by Council again after the building so I'm thinking who is it that authorized you to do to work whatever it's not very transparent
or ethical in my opinion the fire truck from last month last meeting first I'd like to commend Joe walers on his presentation at the last council meeting the township spent five years in taxpayers money also
defended itself in lawsuits and petitions brought on by the IFC and Mr Simon it seems Joe received some of the answers to our questions and information from the IFC in just a couple weeks good job Joe I was right there you go it
furthers my opinion that the IFC had zero intention to ever Supply that information to the township but anyway back to the truck Joe walers bought the truck I'm unsure of his intentions but I confirm I can confirm it was used in a
pre with our three Nest council members some of their campaign supporters and a bunch of political propaganda on it and also that has sat outside in his driveway for what eight months this was an argument raised by
many against me when I was on Council because it was outside for just a few weeks my question as a resident is how does this Council consider buying back a vehicle that was sold for various reasons from the private person that purchased it it is as Mr Walter stated
27 years old and the company that made it is out of business now for nine years anyone that owns a Saturn a Pontiac an Oldsmobile they'll agree with me how difficult it can be to get parts I guess we have to pay Township employees to spend time searching the
internet to find these parts that it may or may not need and how well how good the parts will be if they've been refurbished maybe we can just send some of the co Cuba to pick them up Joe you like to travel the the equipment that was on
that vehicle was transferred to the other trucks in the fire department's inventory so the statement that was that we don't have a truck with that equipment on it is incorrect maybe a scare tactic I don't know this truck has exceeded its life expectancy with both the
NFPA standards and with Maple shading and it should not return just because somebody wants it or somebody wants it out of their driveway I've been able to find many examples of the same kind of truck on the same website that we sold it on for between $6 and
$8,000 so why is Council even first considering buying it but secondly we shouldn't have to pay what he has put into it and he has provided no fair proof excuse me no proof of fair market value that truck had significant water
damage when it was driven into deep water sometime in August of 2020 so it's a flood vehicle but he's asking for what $31,000 it's like 300% more than the others are going for it's absolutely absurd I'm hoping Miss
ston will have more on this as I see it as a topic on their old business so we'll leave it for that now let's get back to the conflict in ethics again how can it not be a conflict that Mr Simon SEC is considering and pushing the purchasing of this truck back for a Township that he is actively
suing his son is the Deputy Chief of the fire department he is now maybe may not I don't know a life member of the IFC and his wife is involved with the L's auxiliary I'm guessing the IFC would be the only beneficiary of this outdated piece of equipment conflicts on top of
conflicts it's really BRS our DPW Department was looking to get a backup generator on their property the facility that supplies critical fuel to police Fire EMS and our
Schoolboard School Board without electricity that fuel doesn't get dispensed to our emergency vehicles it was approved but only Mr Simon SEC voted no just wanted to make sure everybody was paying attention to that the residents of Maple Shade need to pay
attention not just pay their taxes which again Mr Simon SEC is looking to flatly across the board raise but that's another topic this council is not transparent in their intentions so many political promises are being fulfilled that it's causing so many
conflicts have a good if I may thank you I I need to correct that record Mr Simon sck is not suing the township really really and because you took some name off all right anybody else from the public
no more he Edward Malone 83 Westwood Crest in regard to that rescue truck and the equipment being transferred to truck Wednesday they had a serious accident High Street in 73 that our illustrious
PID Department went to but somehow the equipment they didn't know how to use so we had to wait for the rescue truck from Mount Laurel to come to to correct the matter there so it's evident we need a rescue truck in this town okay and at this price it's a bargain to get that truck back in service in our Township I
don't know whose idea was to sell it but they were ludicrous to have that idea at all that truck is a vital part of equipment for the fire department and they sit there and watch 73 back up as a cheap poate route 38 for this accident Wednesday morning because we had to wait
for Mount Law's rescue truck to come and do the job but we allegedly have the equipment on our trucks to do it but apparently they didn't know how to use it or they didn't do it so I recommend they buy the fire truck back it's a valuable piece of equipment the township does need thank
you was that this week yes anybody else I don't know I miss all right seeing none motion to close we got one oh man Joe Walters 163 Frederick Avenue I know Mr Schmidt was uh not at the last
meeting but it is on uh YouTube so I'm not going to represent every and hash through everything I did thank you he's he's an intelligent man if he wants to be and look at what I stated on the record um I think we all know the facts
here about the truck and the biggest one was was the council sold this and let this get sold without a reserve on it that that's the most disturbing thing to me but why I'm here and why our chief is here uh Chief Fletcher I just have one
question for you if you could uh don't want to put you on the spot but what going to with the rescue truck in absence now my question is for the police department is this something that the police department I know it was
used from from what I learned for lighting scenes to light up a scene where there's a serious accident on a highway maybe some other things I'm sure you have a whole history of when the truck was used to to help and assist the police department is this something that could
be used still to assist the police department and if so is it missed so from our perspective lighting is an important issue if we have fatal crashes which you all typically know happen on Route 73 that's our safe Carter that's
out there uh it's dark in a lot of spots and unfortunately they happen in the early morning hours uh so for us to be able to get lighting out there if we don't have lighting that's coming from our fire department we have to go back out the Central Communications try to locate additional resources to bring
Lighting in so lighting is an issue um we've had to go out and purchase some supplemental lighting it's nowhere near the kind of lighting that Cascades off that truck but it's just to give us some surface working area lighting um so our investigative division has like two different Lighting systems that we
try to use um we've actually looked into possibly getting a lighting trailer if we got a grant or something of that nature because lighting is an issue for us a lot of times when we're out handling different things and unfortunately a lot of the most serious
crime happens at night and in the dark thank you Chief this truck uh just for people at home it's not you know somebody putting on the high beams on a truck or just the lights that you might see on the side it's to my knowledge that the Township in the past spent
$60,000 to upgrade the lighting on this truck it can light up a whole city block and the lights that come off where you can see from the top of the truck there's a tower that comes up and then it can throw light out admit light and
and and shine light down on a scene something that I'm sure anything we have in the township right now it just it's not we don't have it right now in the police department doesn't have it so that answers the lighting question uh one thing that I didn't get into at the last meeting was the Cascade system
that's on this truck uh I learned that it has a Cascade system which is the air tank system when the firemen go out onto a scene they have two air tanks they're running into a burning building the question I ask is how long is that tank good for it's 45 minutes but they figure
on 30 because you want to be out of that building before you're up then they have one more backup tank my question is how's that tank get charged on scene it doesn't the only way we have right now to charge the tanks is back at the
firehouse my next question is how many tanks do we have at the firehouse and that number is 70 tanks the rescue truck has a Cascade charging system right on it that can charge all 70 Fire
Department tanks on scene so if you have a fire that's going on for hours an hour and and men running in and out the building other companies running from other towns we can charge the tanks the air tanks right on scene so that's something
that's that's important you know the covers not just the police department but also for the fire department something to consider thank you thank you Jeff thank you oh boy all oh Mike Stevens 47 chry
Avenue about the fir truck or the rescue I'm sorry we used it as the chief said many many accidents many fatalities I operate that truck or I did operate the truck when we had it on many
fire scenes the Cascade that Joe was talking about was refurbish and has extra updated attachments to do the tanks the
stva quicker when we have mutual Aid on these fire scenes we fill their tanks also this truck was
sold by two people three people not knowing what the truck was if you ask ask them what what does that truck do they wouldn't know why it was sold I don't understand and I don't mean to be disrespectful to
anybody really it's just uh beyond my comprehension why it was sold and why we don't have it back and as a gentleman said at that accident at 73 and high
they used 103 now 1013 has two hydraulic pumps on it you can operator from the front you can operator from the back but again I don't mean no
disrespect those three or four or five paid people firefighters I haven't seen them train yet I ask questions how you do this how you do that how you do this oh I know I don't
know I don't they don't even know how to use the ladder they're not allowed to use the ladder all I should no thank you thank you anybody else all right motion to close so second second all in favor I I
we're going to move over to staff and professional comments councilwoman uh St Patty's Day is coming and the BFW is holding their annual get get together so it would be great if some of our uh residents would go
support them they do so much for the town so hopefully you'll be there I believe it's on the 15th uh this Saturday coming time is that just be careful out there you know what time is
uh I'm not really sure does anybody know the time on that because I think it starts at 7 7 to whatever I think it's a $35 a person $60 for a couple and uh they do so much for the town so we we like to support them
in any way we can and of you know just putting it out there so thank you very much thank you councilman Kaufman nothing mayor thank you councilman Simonson nothing councilman R yeah I just one thing I just like to apologize
for being late I no worries totally you weren't the only I totally blew that one sorry I don't know my fault didn't say names I was I was going to say that it didn't say but it did say that's aesome thank you that's aw
okay Terry Susan no not to my report Miss mcdal thank you all right so we have some events happening around town this month we have the free rabies clinic Saturday March 15th from 10 to 12 at the Maple Shade EMS building we have the high school mattress sale on Sunday
March 16th from 10 to5 at the high school gym Main Street Maple Shades monthly Bingo is next Thursday March 20th at the firehouse tickets are are still available the health and wellness Fair event is March 26th from 9:00 to 12 up here at the municipal building the Ladies Auxiliary craft fair is March
29th at the firehouse from 10:00 to 3 l youth group is holding a clothing Drive I know they already had one drop off but I am sure there will be more it has been a very busy few months and we have a lot of exciting things happening we are working on putting together a fitness challenge up here
with different departments within the township more info to come on that we have our first student in government Day on April 10th we were all excited about that we attended the empowerment Expo celebrating women last week hosted by the maple sha Business Association which was very motivational we also attended
the reading Across America event at mod Wilkins on Friday I had the opportunity to read to the fourth grade class all of the kids were excited and we also were able to discuss the Indian burial graveyard that is here in Maple Shade they just happen to be learning about it in class and we were very they were very excited to hear about it and that's all
I have moving over to Old business operations thank you uh so our Aces Park improvements have begun the contractor has 90 days to complete the project 90 days gets us right to about the beginning of June but we're hoping that'll be done before that residents along that area will be getting noticed
um when the the true construction starts we've just started to dismantle some of the things we've also begun exploring ways to ease parking challenges along Main Street particularly on the Block where fontanas Crescent Liquors and Zig fields are located these businesses typically serve customers who make quick stops since Main Street is a county
roadway there are addition additional regulatory steps involved however originally one suggestion was to make it in front of the store that didn't go over real well with the county or whatnot so the new suggestion is to possibly designate a few 15minute parking spots in the rear of the mun in
the rear Municipal lot um Behind These businesses not all spaces would be restricted to short-term parking but if council is open to the idea we can begin the process of amending our ordinance and getting quotes for signage I have to note though that we don't have meter maid so like there's not going to be
some that goes around and is police can't do it they do it um so we don't have that enforcement parking Personnel um there would be no meters but it's something that council could consider at one point short-term meter parking there um if you choose to but anyway that's
the possibility that's what we're going through we'll start to uh look at the ordinance see what kind of changes we have to make I think that it will alleviate at least for those businesses right there I know that with fontanas with the new ownership they've been having a ton of new events so there's a lot less parking um and some of those
again some of those quick runin businesses whether it be Stone dragon or crescent Liquors or zigfield or something you're just running in getting but they don't have the space to park so um it's definitely something that we want to look into Susan one question do all those business have access to the back parking lot yes okay those right
there do yes okay thank you is there any possibility on on like side streets because I know everything is 2hour is it 2hour parking on the side streets or is it just there no there side she's Fork Landing on one side and map on the other
so well because I'm me being on on Main Street for 26 years I mean we had a lot of issue with with all that yeah Park parking in general is an issue on Main Street we' love but again that's something that we have spoken with um our engineer about as well getting the planner involved and of course getting
the county involved too but I think an immediate might be this new solution to have the parking in the back just a couple spots see what happens and go there good test run yeah um also I just wanted to follow up um we had we've mentioned about Sterling Manor it's been
discussed a couple times at the recent Council meetings back in January when its closure was announced I had immediately reached out to the school district um and had been in discussions with them for the probably about the past three years about potential next step if the facility were to close so approximately about 15 months ago I
spoke with the owner Mark whis to present the school's position but he at that time was uninterested in the conversation it was quite an enlightening conversation it wound up in a hang-up but uh on me but that's okay um but I also have reached out and I've sought assistance from Congressman
norcross's office and assemblyman greenall's office just looking for some sort of grants that possibly could be used um moving forward I have contacted our appraiser I had reached out to to Jerry mccale and I've requested a proposal for a preliminary report to dep to determine a fair market value I think
that's probably the best place to start for all of us um so we can just stop going back and forth of our are we going to talk about it aren't we going to talk about it let's find out what it's worth or what at least the fair market value is I have spoken with the school district again this morning and we are both in the midst of our budget process
but a joint public Venture could be a possibility for us uh or you know some sort of acquisition together and it could be mutually beneficial so the school district does remain interested hope I'm not speaking out of term but I did speak with Beth and she told me you spoke about it um but so once we have that additional information and a fair
market value assessment I think we're going to be in a much stronger position to have those conversations going forward and we can we don't know if it's for sale yet though do we it's not but that's something we need before we even consider any of those things I think we need to know what's going on I know that
currently there's over $400,000 in fines on the building um and they are looking at addition and I can't say at the building on the owner so okay um are they the fire fire ones or a combination of all of them combination of all of
them all right well I'm pretty sure that the ones for the nursing goes with them the ones that are for the fire would go with an owner which really become null and void because if the building's getting bought it gets knocked down it goes away so they would uh cancel those
fines and do away with them yeah so I have reached out I did reach out to the state to just to confirm those fines because I know that they were just levied another 60 Grand uh last week so so what's the total for all the fines so if with that 60,000 what I've been told so far I haven't not gotten the final
number but what I've told so far it's upwards it's north of $400,000 just for the fire side no for the building side for the with the owner side is what it is the what they've been finded for for the nursing home for the nursing home yes on the
owner so that's where I that's I'm waiting for confirmation I don't want to go just on I want it from the directly from the people so they told me that they would get back to me well I think he'll be motivated to sell the building at this point very well maybe very well maybe so um but again I think you know
we also need to know I joint venture I think is a good idea um I mean I know what we have at assessed at but again it has to be far fair market value is what we have to look at so I have reached out to Jerry and asked them just to do a preliminary it shouldn't cost that much just to get the uh you know a market
value on it when the fair market value comes back I would like to see negotiations with the attorney just to start feeling them out start happening right away when you get that information back absolutely so that we can start moving on it because the longer we sit
on it I I can't see anybody buying the building it's not going to open as a nursing home anymore so that ship sailed I agree with you I think if anything happens somebody buys it they knock it down and it's someone else is going to build there so but again it's all reason why that you know I've been
having these discussions already again you know both Heather and John know that when it first happened immediately it reached out to the school district but I did just want only because it's Comm up I wanted to make sure that everybody knows that that's where we are um and that's the right now those are the steps that we're taking um yesterday Miss mcdal Jen Nixon our housing ladies on
and I had a conference call with our fair share housing attorney and our planner to discuss the fair share plan that is due on June 30th of this year as you recall Council approved a resolution agreeing with our fair share obligation of 78 units for the next round I'm going to provide more additional detail to you
all tomorrow um as to our thoughts regarding a negotiations plan just because it will go into a legal negotiation and uh we'll need to work those things out um and the mayor already reported that we have uh our annual rabies clinic so bring your dogs
and your cats that's all I got thank Youk Chief lecher we talking about the I'm going to talk about our analysis of the use of force today but before I get started I just want to thank everybody who came out on Tuesday the 25th of February for kabus cares uh talking to Steve we
raised over $900 uh at that event which is great it goes right into our National Night Out uh event which we're obviously hard at work planning and trying to get squared away for this year so just want to thank everybody for that uh as I discussed
last week uh as part of our end-year reporting the Attorney General requires us to do an analysis of our use of force show of force and vehicle Pursuit um that has to be entered into What's called the law enforcement portal it's a new element this year that we have to do um they've kind of created the template
for it on their end uh which I use but I don't like their template because I don't feel it's complete enough to paint a picture of what we do as an agency before we even talk about use of force show of force and vehicle Pursuit so on our website I posted my full report I'm
just going to highlight a few areas from it tonight so as I talked about last month uh 2024 calendar year we had 26541 calls for service in comparison to 19 incidents 19 incidents where we used Force involving 32 officers that comes
down to about one 1,000th of 1% of the time we go on calls for servers we use Force when it comes to incident based arrests uh we had 18 subjects that were arrested one was not the top five Force used by officers based on the 32
officers that I described uh and ranked in order where taken down to the ground 15 used hands and arms nine used and arm bar two used pressure points two and deployed OC which is pepper spray one uh we track more metrics than what
the Attorney General's office tracks in their Benchmark system alcohol and drugs were confirmed in over 50% of these calls now remember in the use of force policy and procedure you're required to deescalate folks that's supposed to be your first course of action it's hard to
deescalate people who are under the influence in 100% of all the incidents subjects repeatedly ignored officers commands 100% of the incident and more than the minor majority of these incidents the police were called it a
scene Sunday and Monday were the highest days of frequency that we used Force I know that's surprising most people would think Friday and Saturday not this year in years past yes not this year eag I should say 2024 football games is what it is Tuesday was the next day again a
little bit of a surprise uh one of the things we're required to do is break down racial and gender comparisons so 13 of our incidents involved whites five incidents involved white Hispanics and three incidents involve blacks of the incidents involving whites and white Hispanics nine took place in town eight
took place on the highway including the apartment complexes and one took place out of town on a incident that we were involved in of the incidents involving blacks all three took place in the highway area including the apartment complexes from a gender perspective force was used against 18 man white
white Hispanic and black and three females who are all listed as white all of the force reviews were deemed Justified after a meaningful command level review and just so you understand what that terminology means when force is used it ask to be reviewed
by the immediate supervisor the division Commander that's the lieutenant the captain who's the administrative Captain under me and then myself and everybody has to sign off Maple Shade has done use of force reviews since I was promoted into the captain spot back in 2010 we
started that process so we've been doing it well beyond what we're required to do by the Attorney General's office we also do that with show of force and vehicle Pursuit um currently this agency is preparing to bring on the pepper ball system which is a less lethal technology
so we have olar resin capsicum which is pepper spray but there's also uh small encapsulated uh ground up pepper that's in a ball and it's called pepper ball so we have just had our people certified it's been approved by the less lethal Committee in New Jersey and we're
quickly exploring that option uh we currently run a number of less lethal platforms we have a less lethal shotgun that we use with bean bag rounds we have taser we have OC and now we're introducing pepper ball there is one under system that I'm looking at um if
the less lethal committee finally makes a decision on it and if that happens we'll probably roll that out and again we're just trying to put as much less lethal technology in the hands because when you pull up to a situation or so many circumstances that can happen one system's not perfect for everything you
need a variety of systems to choose from when we're talking about a show of force what is that a showof force is basically if you draw your handgun out and you pointed at the subject that's called a show of Force if you pull your taser out you flip the switch and you Arc it where electricity is shown we report that as a
show of force we had three show of force incidents involving four officers we were called called to the scene 100% of the time uh it included a subject with a gun assault and flight and theft with flight in two of the incidents the subjects in questions ignored verbal
commands an arrest was made in two of the incidents and 100% of the incidents took place in the highway area to Township 100% of all show of force reports involved weights and weight Hispanics the officers in turn displayed a handgun along with veral commands 100% of the time and the show of forts
incidents were deemed Justified after meting ful command level review when I look at the year-to-year comparisons 2023 to 2024 again we noticed some changes in the statistics and you know granted I have a master's degree I'm not a statistician I've
become a statistician because of uh being the chief and really that's what they're looking for you to do a deep dive in these statistics uh so mental health incidents in 2023 they represented 43% of our calls but in 2021 or 2024 they were
21% disturbances which usually include being under the influence of alcohol drugs are both in 2023 they were 38% 2024 they were 24% even though these percentages are slightly down they still account for almost half of our use Force inance
which continue to reinforce the need for our programs based on mental health and addiction related services so we've done a lot of work in the space of Volunteers of America we have the arve program we're doing what's called the Gap Outreach we're also doing straight the
treatment so we're doing a lot to try to condense down some of these situations we would be responding to and probably one of the greatest examples of that is what's called a welfare check where we get a call to go check on the status of someone um in 2022 we had 15 welfare
checks which is a lot that resulted in force in 20123 we had five in 2024 we were down to just two so that shows me that the interventions are obviously working we're not allowing people to get to the point where they're spiraling and then we have to respond into
that uh subject's actions that led us to using force over time resisted arrest and officer control we have 28 of those in 2024 in comparison to 19 and 2023 and for the remainder of 2024 no other categories align to 2023 all new
categories that we were dealing with and they included spitting on the officers 12 verbal fighting stance threatening the officers 11 kicking the officers nine and threatening to kick the officer seven uh in closing we had one vehicle
Pursuit uh that was justified we generally do our best to encourage our officers not to get into Pursuit the pursuit inv boled a subject fleeing uh from a shop lifting where he hit an officer with a car and then nearly round over a Second Officer which is what led to the pursuit but it was terminated and
that completes my report thank you wel uh moving over to slay plan uh last uh last month we had one applicant U-Haul um and they had a lot of things that they were bringing up and looking at so they're going to be coming back uh
to the next meeting on April 1st um as it stands right now they're the only ones with the exception of uh Joann's that are going to be on the uh agenda so far okay thank you BC
there there was no meeting no meeting okay yeah Tuesday there'll be a meeting okay I'll give a sustainable report we have the water tour set up for this Saturday March 10th at 10: a.m. everyone's looking forward to that exciting out outing uh the community garden opening day is set for March 23rd
at noon they have started a new sneaker and CLE collection drive to recycle the old stuff and they are also busy working on the farmers market which is set to open on May 30th moving over to the hen ordinance I'll go to you Su right thanks so earlier today um I did have a question
that came in from Jen Lucas she was going to be unable to attend this evening and her two questions were how quick and easy is the process she'd like a time frame of how many weeks months and steps involved I'd ask she had copied all of you in on the email so I had written back to her and then the other question was what is the cost to
the homeowner getting the proper housing for hen's expensive on its own so she was trying to figure out how much more to budget to get an approval as well so my answer to her about how how quick and easy was the process I had explained to her that as she knew on June 14th of 2018 ordinance 2018-4 was voted down by
a 4:1 vote of council then subsequently on November 8th 2018 ordinance 2018-15 was approved by a vote of 5 to Zer that ordinance put the process in place to permit chickens including a $50 application fee for a d variant and a $300 escro deposit for prohibited animal
on a property zon in residential I explained to her that typically the process before the zoning board goes before the zoning board and it depends on when the application is filed could be anywhere from 30 to 60 days or sooner depending on whether the applicant has all the information requested into the board for review so while chickens are
prohibited animals our zoning code does permit for a resident to present their plan however they have to seek a d variance to do so and then each application is reviewed on a case-by casee basis as to what is the cost of the homeowner again I explained that the prices were attached I had given her um a copy of our fee
ordinance um and she asked why possibly would be reasons not approved and actually as um somebody had alluded to fact that if it didn't go through zoning if it was too close to the property line uh you know if it there needed to be some other uh variations so I definitely
wanted to let her know that those questions got answered or at least were brought up tonight so I have a copy of you for of those if you did not get it also back I guess when we first brought this up a couple years I guess a year ago um I had done
a a chart of different towns that permitted it in our area they were Township of Haden Princeton Eve sham Vorhees Homedale Mount Laurel and camenson so these show you basically what their um requirements are and everything goes from you know how many
licenses uh in total is it something that they're deap on the residential types you know where these towns are allowing uh the chickens to be if there's a lot size requirement the max number of chickens per license if they allow roosters nobody allows roosters
but um where in the where in the yard these hens and these chickens are allowed the permitted coup and run areas that they need to have them um distance from a habitable portion of the property distance from the property line Coupe height shelter fence coup and run area
manand while outside if you know if they're just going to let them be free roaming or not what the fees are the coup if there are coup designs and requirements who the licenses are obtained through and then who the regulations through that goes back to the questions that were asked earlier is
who's going to be uh the enforcing agency so you can see just in these towns this was the easiest to pull up and you know probably sentiments in being the closest um and eam and Matt Laurel are ones that we would probably look at just if we were going to be considering to be similar um again this
is a council decision as to what you want to do I know that there's a you know a plan out there to have a um hen committee my suggestion is going to be that if there is going to this is going to go forward that the hen committee does include people up here in town hall
as well um you know so that we can obviously if there's anything needs to be brought back to council or if there's something that doesn't go along with our ordinance we're able to um you know to be able to address it right away but I thought that this was probably the best to give you I do have copies of
ordinances for all these towns as well um but at this point it is what council's pleasure is to how we want to move forward if we want to move forward with the committee if we want to move forward with trying to put something together on our own um thank you this is very helpful um John did you have more
questions or did Susan answer no if Su I would be on I would like to be on the committee if we if we do form a committee so Andrew did your question get answered on the enforcement I don't think there's really anything in place here Sandy or Chuck
that test to that if there's enforcement the only enforcement right now that we have would be on the zoning side if some one hasn't come before the board and in the five six years that I've been here I don't recall anybody coming to one of the boards he hea sorry
Terry there wasn't anybody there so then the other portion of the enforcement I do know that our code enforcement officer has been out we have had complaints of chickens he goes out he gives them the ordinance tells them what they have to need you know what they need to do and either the chicken either they get rid of they've either gotten rid of the chickens where they still
have them and nobody's complained about them again um so that's where it would be but you know I understand with the with the hen Committee of what it would be is these things we would we would look at like these we would put these in place in something so um again at this
point it's committees it's committee thoughts of what they want to do do they want to get away from the zoning ordinance portion of it and make it a little bit easier for residents have this committee you know have at least start designing And discussing how they're going to go about it will the hen committee be the one that approves
it will it be something that the hen committee will say yep we you know we recommend it and it comes back those are the questions that are going and I think that's what needs to be decided Chuck Sandy was what you put in place to really just to be accountable so that
the township knew that those people had it or was it something that the zoning board maybe John can answer all I don't know if anybody came before him but no I don't think anybody came right no you know was it something that the zoning board was going to just approve with
minor restrictions or and and so that the township was aware of it what was your thoughts when you were doing that uh my thoughts are that it helps Everybody by going through zoning because we have so many different size Lots here that if you look at the
scope of things if you look down I I believe it's like Fellowship lots are so small how does somebody put chickens there and then you have like Cutler that year pH you have a huge property so it seems like there's no problem there because you have so much room so that's
why we were really pushed it to go to zoning so it would be fair for the people living next door that there wouldn't be any issue that they were told that this may happen so considering the Aven flu right now I I think we need
to just put this on hold for now to see how that goes because you know that it's really cooking out there with every day there's a little bit more problem with it if we didn't go through zoning and correct me from then you would have this regulation would go through through that committee to make sure that the yard is
there's enough space going by what we permit in we have does zoning have to make that uh that call it would be zon that would make the call on that but again uhy go ahead I if I recall um the issue
really was how do you um permit them and how would you handle disputes between individuals you know my dog gets in and kills your h you know I mean there's the kind of things that are going to happen and how do you how do you that way if it went to
zoning people would have an opportunity to say I don't want them or I don't and then Zone will have to make a decision but that that was that was the reason we went to Zone and gave neighbors an opportunity to say yay or n so any of the people who do want hens
they could go to zoning and you know bring it forward to them so it's not like we we don't allow it it's just that you have to get the devarian it's not we going reduce the cost I was going to say is it something that if and I'm just spitballing here you know do we reduce that cost do we put some of these
other things in most of it is is probably in the ordinance but like do we put some of these other Coupe design requirements you know who's going to be the enforcing agent do we put that into amend the ordinance and put that in there um so that's clear so when a
resolution is done it's clearly spelled out well to keep to cost down to the homeowners what they decide to go to zoning I mean to mainstream it have the rules have the guys I mean they seem willing
to participate to help get all that information and just leave it to the zoning board like Chuck and Sandy said and then we have accountability through the town I mean my my concern is is the aftermath I mean you know if somebody
has them and then they you know add on to the pen and we're not watching or you know somebody could wind up having 100 pens in it and you know I I don't know it just seems like we don't want the town being overrun by him but you know maybe have a cap on how many people can
have I mean again that goes back to education made sense if uh you have less they're going to be more healthy and I mean to Sand's point she's right I mean right now it's you know there's a lot of them that are being uh you know
slaughtered because of the Asian flu so I I I think we need a combination of both because if they if a resident just comes to zoning on their own they're not going to be educated they're going to educate themselves on their own but if we have a committee formed that can educate them
so I think there needs to be a combination of both the committee and Zone maybe if they apply then they have to go through the education part with them and then it's a win-win so have a committee that educates the person who's going to go to zoning correct that's what I'm saying how about that goes
originally to the committee and the committee can then perhaps um to make almost like a site plan for recomendation for the for the chickens um but yeah I mean and then they can maybe there's a checklist at that and that's something that the
committee can talk about you know is what we want to do keep some of these other items in there but it it gets the residents involved you know and again keeps them in but then still gives that oversight and gives the township the some teeth some teeth yeah so good so if
you're if you're considering reducing the costs um I think what you I don't think you realize that there's a cost to the certified mail and the advertising as well which can be several hundred dollars if you have to go to the zoning board for a Vari variance so um you know
depending how many property owners are around there it's uh it is significant so perhaps a reduction in the in the costs the application cost would help yeah and then because what is right now the D Varian there they in our ordinance
it's $50 for a prohibited animal so um you know and then there's a $300 escrow fee I I don't know would it have to go to it doesn't have to go to an end we'll be able to tell I mean our planning zoning officer would be able to tell if it's yes goes also for the attorney or
draft resolution right and that's and this was done in 2018 right after this it was this is a reduction from a regular D variance yeah for sure so they did that for strictly for hens but you're talk I mean it could be as much as a thousand but I mean if they're going to
walk the the certified around door to door which a lot of people do that's true they can still do that right do we have any um code enforcement issues now with the people that already have the hens illegally we've had yeah we have had and our code enforcement officer has
had eggs thrown at him yeah so literally propert not me in thatu I'm wondering so I I get like with the resolution too is that I guess it's not something that that could be a template like if we had one and then like fill on the BL like probably not because it's going to be each different for each property right
the voting and all that which is why they did the 300 it pays for the resolution can I ask one of the committee members to come up you have any questions um Emily would you like to come up and state say anything it's up to you I know I Soldier you could come
back up after we spoke so I just you just have to uh state your name and address again sorry Em 453 Alexander AV just for some perspective right now our um you know going through zoning like it's actually
easier for somebody in New York City to get a hen than it is for somebody in Maple shet to get a hen so just for perspective like we're just trying to make things comparable to like cinon and Oakland and things like that a more comparable you know
um process to what they have it's succeeded in all these communities that have done it over the past five years more and more just keep doing it every pilot program has succeeded so
um yeah that's sort of where I'm at you know um there is a class you can take um if you want to talk to an expert I can bring Gwen to a meeting and you can talk to her she knows anything you could possibly think of about hens and raising
hens and how far away it's got to be from you know a window you know like anything anybody could ever come up with to you know so she'd be able to answer you know excuse me is Gwen from Hatten Township yes she is she's from from 2018
yeah but Township's another one here yeah first Township of Haden Township Township okay yeah for hien Township yeah so yeah so I guess let's put a committee together um I know well so you
had said we so you had suggested have someone from up here who were you thinking like code enforcement or were you thinking I I'm thinking either zoning or yeah Planning and Zoning code enforcement could um if the clerk wants to sit in on it only because she's part
of Licensing that would probably be a good uh a good person your committee is five residents six residents uh six residents right now but John wants to be right right so that would be I'll be right so I mean I wouldn't do a committee more than than I think that's
you know you keep it but yeah and I I think that would so why don't we start there get a committee together we'll get a first meeting at least of what we're proposing and you know let them come back and say okay that that they're going to be the advisory to a zoning to say yes you know it's recommended it's not recommended for
these reasons these were concerns that you had um maybe too if we can find out education portion of it if town I I have not found a town that requires it um I can't imagine that we wouldn't be able to not require it um so if that's something to yeah it's a really
accessible class and it's $15 right so so um I think all those fees if we get all that in play that'll help us with amending whatever fees have to be and deciding you know if we want to amend that fee for portion of it like I said there's $300 of it into for an escrow
deposit I think we should offset that a little bit so that they're not paying $1,000 do just to get you know two hens on their property the idea so else thank you so I'll be in touch with uh with you all okay sounds all right mattress
search charge do the mattress search charge I think we've we've probably beat that one to death but I do I'm waiting for the county to tell me how many mattresses we disposed of in February um so that we have a good idea of what we're doing so once I have that number I'd hope to have it today they got back
to me today and said that they didn't have it ready for me so there was two one calller yesterday at one house across the street all right um request to repurchase the fire trunk so I believe we left it um and correct me if I'm wrong I don't remember
Ellen or Susan I believe uh Susan was contacting the state I did reach out to the state I uh spoke to someone at the DCA or we spoke to somebody Andy had wound up sending me the email so I have a copy of the email for you um and it's uh basically she's the procurement
specialist and qpa at the DCA and her response was the township is required to adhere to the local public contracts law when purchasing the truck there is no exception to the bidding process the purchase must be competitively procured if the cost of the truck exceeds the Township's bid threshold for us it's
44,000 then bids must be solicited and the contract must be awarded to the lowest responsible and responsive responsive fitter for purchase estimated to be below the bid threshold so that's going to be anything between um under $44,000 and above $6,600 at least two
competitive quotes must be obtained as per 4 40a colon 11- 6.1a furthermore all vendors including individuals must comply with business registration certificate equal opportunity and the legal requirements that typically require uh this type of purchase if the purchase is over 175 we're also Bound by
payto playay laws so that means we have to have stockholders certificates whatnot blah blah blah so that is where it comes from the purchasing side of it um we cannot just purchase the vehicle from a private resident um there has to be a bid now I will say that prior to
all of this I had gone on um and Mr Walters had alluded to it uh at the last meeting that in July we did sit down we had a conversation um and I had asked him at that meeting what are your plans for the firet truck it's exactly what I asked for him from him and he did say that it was coming back but I said okay
let's see how that's going to happen I wasn't real sure um but I did go on to gov deals thereafter um and I did pull up our truck which was the 1998 American LF France rescue truck um and that gave me what it's you obviously we know what that sold for the township received 23,
195 but it was a total of 26,900 American LEF France rescue truck that closed on January 29th of this year that sold for 8 $600 I found a 2004 American Le France Metro rescue firet truck a little bit different than what we have that sold
and closed on January 22nd of 2025 that sold for $6,600 there was a 1999 American Le France fir Tru that closed on January 18th of 2024 that sold for 69.50 um so again you know and I'm not
I'm not saying that I'm against this or for this is my job as the qpa like I have to follow these rules it's my license as I explained the last meeting um we have an we have a ruling from the DCA procurement specialist qpa up there they're saying that it has to go to
either bid or out for quotes um so I just bring that to your attention what counil decides to do that's on you but I will say that if it is going to go the way of purchasing it as the qpa I cannot put my license behind it I'll lose my license and so that would have to be
something that would need to be worked out Susan can I ask you a question what those trucks you looked up were they upgraded to the point of the truck that Mr Walter says so that you know I don't you don't know that because you don't really get to see it and again I know that the Cascade system was purchased that Cascade system was purchased in
2018 um and that it was $59,000 is what was purchased for that it was a capital expenditure that um I guess we purchased it in uh the work was done in July to it and I think it was authorized then in October so um the
council wound up doing that and then um we have had issues with it it was in a flood in 20 no what was it 2020 in August of 2020 the vehicle did go through um some high waters and there was an insurance claim for it that was just under $112,000 that we had to pay
out on it to have it repaired so there was some significant damage done there um so you know the the issue and Mr Walters brought it up again tonight about that there was no reserve on it um
you know it we were in there there was there's no reserves on all any of these trucks um that went through so if that's the issue you know it it's what is going to be spent for it an auction is an auction um again we do have the Cascade system I have confirmed with uh interim
Chief Kerr that this week at or it was this week yeah we're in Thursday this week at the accident on Route 73 um Chief Kerr and three of our our paid members got out there was no so even if the rescue truck we had it the rescue truck wouldn't have gotten out
only four members got on the first engine so um we wouldn't have had the members out for that uh he did say that the equipment is on the other truck there are as everybody has said we have mutual Aid that comes and and does some of the lighting so um again from you know from the fire department's
standpoint or at least from you know what we've had in the last year what was originally presented to council the sale was you know it was it was excess and we were okay with not having it the actual P repurchase of it that will be on Council I was going to go to Ellen
unless you have something have we' bought Ed trucks before it's it's not the same process as far as I'm concerned from and you are correct we can buy a used truck from an intergovernmental agency that truck was used and we bought it from who resident
from a resident no we didn't buy it from a resident that's the problem that's what the problem is the local public contracts law allows us to do an intergovernmental purchase Municipal we sold uh we sold an EMS vehicle or an EMS um rig a couple
years ago to cinamon um didn't have to go through the purchasing it was for $10,000 so it was above the quote sentiments and didn't have to get quotes so can I ask what the replacement strategy was with the truck at the time look I I I really do know a lot about this truck where I came from and the
sheer reason that it was sold was just to get rid of it this Township sunk a lot of money into it and nobody can answer the question of if it was going to be replaced do they realize that that truck you know the statement was made the equipment was put on the trucks
that's a false statement all that equipment that was on that truck is sitting up in the storage room in the firehouse and your statement just now that the truck wouldn't have got out you wouldn't know that because it's volunteer so that's a statement that's that's your opinion of things and when the
truck you're you're you made the statement that the truck wouldn't have gotten out because the other four people went on there so you you you don't know that that truck would have gotten out of the station or not that's the whole thing that's a resource for this Township it was bought and paid for it
was eared you sunk a lot of money into it after the flood the truck worked just fine all right there was somebody trapped in a flood on the highway and the crews decided to go through the through the waters to get the people out out of the truck before they had issues drowning and the $112,000 with what they
did was well worth saving a life versus the money that was put back into the truck so all these arguments and all these things are being said I know the history of all of it and it's quite disturbing to me and the the truck itself was an auxiliary truck every fire
every call had extra equipment on it which again went back to an ISO rating that helped this Township out for fire uh for fire uh insurance now that's gone the truck's gone the truck is a needed piece of equipment and to get rid of
something like that because it's old is a false statement the equipment can be repaired and it can be fixed anything on a firet truck can be fixed and the people that fix them are the people that are getting paid to fix them not the people that are in the fire department
researching looking for parts so all these statements being made are false statements to promote a thing of not getting getting that truck back in this Township Mr walers did this Township a favor by buying that truck with the intent for it to come back here and I'm
going to ask Ellen to look into it I understand that there's procurement processes and all the other things but all the things that were done to get rid of the truck are wrong in my opinion and to have the asset back so that the police can use it and and all the other facilities and all the other people that
have used it in the past it was used for the fireworks that had multiple purposes uses in this town nobody understands it better than I do and I've been sitting here listening to everybody come out make statements and have their say about
this truck it was paid for that truck replacement right now would cost $1.3 million to put back in that station New we had it sitting there it was an asset that was paid for and it didn't owe this Township anything and it went out on a
lot of calls on a regular basis and if we want to get into calls that's another thing I can get into this is getting drug out on purpose and I'm making a statement to the people of this town enough is enough with the fire department the people put the three of
us here because of what happened the lies that were told to them and you and I had a meeting a long time ago that we taped and the meeting that we had was about I didn't tape it oh we did we have it thank you for letting you know that so so and I you before we started the
meeting and in that meeting you said when I I and this is something I don't know if they even know it the people that were on Council that that we knew that there was a problem that we wanted to start a a stifen program during the
day and the words out of your mouth was the township Council won't go for that and my response was well it's your job it's your job to sell it to them so Mr Simon sec I'm going to respectfully not get into this with you because you do have legal action pending against me
however I do you're absolutely correct you do the previous council is very well aware of all of our conversations that well as for the truck that truck was sold by the previous Council on recommendation of at the time the fire
administrator and current interim Chief Dan Kerr that's who gave them the information where did they St my job is to come to you and ask if that truck can be purchased back from Mr Walters it cannot if this Council chooses to purchase that vehicle back it will not
be by this qpa I'm not losing my license for it can you buy from a private entity you can buy from an intergovernmental transfer without having to worry about having to do the quote or the bid threshold well we'll do our D process or we'll do our D you have the procurement specialist from the qpa I gave you the
email you have it call her and ask her on your turn my my question is um the email um from the DCA says that you need the two competitive quotes in order to proceed right sorry the the email that you passed around it says you need the
two compet two competitive quotes two is the law normally it's three yes so that can be done right no because Mr Walters is not a can he produce a business registration certificate can he file an eeo with us can he perform the pay or can he positively do the pay to playay
we cannot purchase from a private entity they must be a b a registered business it says for all vendors including individuals must comply with the business registration certificate Mr Walters would not be able he is not Mr Walters himself is not a business he has
to comply with the eeo and other legal requirements that's going to be the stockholder certificate it's going to be pay to all the pay to PL paperwork okay so but if he forms so he's listen if the vehicle is if the vehicle is registered in the llc's name
right now and that's how you want to do it I would be happy to send it up to the state what I'm saying right now is that you're telling me that you personally own that vehicle and you were going to circumvent this system put it into a business sell it to the business so that the township can buy it back and then we still will
need to get three quotes yes we will need to get three quotes based on that and again based on how it was done through guv deal I have I'm looking right here I have them sitting right here these vehicles 6600 6800 6900 those are those are those were sales those
were not quotes right well no you're still going to right it's going to have to be a similar vehicle it's going to be how much will it cost for that vehicle and we don't know whether those were similar Vehicles so so I have to assume that they were they have similar mileage similar VIN numbers whatnot so yeah but
I'd be happy to on if this is how they want to if this is how Council would like to do it I'm just I'm just sorry I'm just exploring the process so if they choose to go forward then Mr Walters has to do what he needs to do on his end and
I'm not I'm not signing off on as a qpa because I know that it's a it's a workaround so but if the DCA tells us that's that's fine because that's who owns it and council is okay with that then that's okay so so if he transfers it to his LLC and you you can go to the
state and say okay now this can't answer that I'm not answering that question I will ask I will ask the DCA myself yeah that's what I was suggesting yep you can go to to the DCA and say okay this LLC owns this truck you could give them the whole history
and and uh they have the history get their opinion we told them the same thing and again I didn't just ask the DCA either I asked a purchasing agent from another town and we also asked another attorney okay and both have all three have said it cannot be done by a private entity but if Mr Walters has a
business and the business is going to sell it and we're going to look that way yes then we will have to also get two other quotes Okay so I was I'm just trying to nail down the process to see how we can move this forward so that's that's what we so she is she representing
him no I'm representing not representing anything she's just saying that this is the process trying to nail down the process Sandy that's what I'm trying to do y so yes there are people here that want to have to be a it would have to be a business entity with a business registration certificate that can fully comply with the pay to playay laws okay
it could be donated back legally to the township if that were from a private so that would be they he could possibly donate it yes it would all then come down to whether or not the vehicle could still be insured yes thank you there
anything else n so we're moving forward with Ellen and you're going to reach out to the DCA I'm going to reach back out to the procurement specialist and ask um you know that the quotes would be okay and of course if if this now gets transferred to a business
okay all right moving over to new business I saw no um it was brought to my attention that the uh Township was uh in the process of trying to uh sell a piece of uh property
that we in um it wasn't discussed with uh with the three new ones of us I don't know if it was discussed in the past but before we go ahead moving to uh sell that property I think we need to have an open discussion for it to cover the
person that's going to be purchasing it and uh uh let let the uh people if they have any questions in the town uh come up here to ask about which property are your friend the property that would be getting sold to Mr McClure so it cannot
be done in an open session um there are things when you sell land property there are things that have to be done and noticed um basically you have to have uh your if there's any um contiguous Property Owners it's a land sale in this case there is no contiguous property Mr
McClure actually owns those properties that are contiguous to it there's a vacated lot next to it so I'm aware all that and the other thing is is that it's a negotiation so those things do not happen in Open Session well part of the problem I have is that I asked a month
ago for a uh summary sheet of everything that was been going on in the past year or so and this year and I've yet to receive that summary sheet it was sent to you it was sent to you and it was let also left in your mailbox it was not in my mailbox it was definitely left in
your mailbox and maybe somebody else took it but it was definitely in there I put that in there myself on a Saturday morning when I was in here working I'll get another copy I have not received it and you asked for all of the engineering you did not ask for anything you asked for all engineering I asked a summary sheet for all the projects and things
that were going projects that's engineering projects this isn't a project this was something that was agreed upon again the transparency to the township is what I'm getting at and being the position he's in I don't want anything coming back with me being here now and with him
so I'm just trying to clear the air for the residents of this town so that there's no you know we're getting accused constantly of not being transparent and I think selling a piece of property that we own to somebody should be an open discussion the negotiations afterwards can be done in
private with the person it wants to purch agreed upon to sell the property by the previous Council that next step then is to go have an ordinance that gets introduced which I received this morning so that's why it was not on the that's why it was not on the agenda who did the ordinance for it m mcdal did you
do the ordinance for it I'm not lying Mr Simon SEC well I have a problem with all the ordinances and the resolutions that are getting done because I don't know who's doing them and a lawyer should be looking at them and they get sent to council the Friday before the meeting for and Miss mcdal is on those on those
emails so she's able to review them as well if there's any issues well the point is is I'm going to bring stuff up I I don't care about the motion that was made before I said before I'm here for this town and I just feel that there's a lot of things that are being
done that aren't being done the way they should be done they're being done within the within the way the law Works a land sale property is not something that you have anything else I I I don't well I do it was what I was going to bring up cannabis all right well then you can
bring it up so I would so um I was looking at the Cannabis ordinance um I don't know if everybody everybody's aware that you you only have to be 250 ft from the front door um when it pertains to Residents
place of worship schools I looked at other towns around and the majority of them were a thousand from the property line not the front door so I would like to put that on the agenda for the 27th to discuss that ordinance and possibly changing it a little bit I did look at
Mount Laurel and Morristown they both are a th000 but camenson is 200 which I was surprised I thought I was going to find all thousands we do have a um we do have a cannabis ordinance uh a cannabis attorney um so and he helped us draft that it was at
his suggestion we originally had it at 1,000 ft it was at his suggestion so that we could then make sure that we get cannabis companies in only because of how dense we are here because and within our population and then obviously because we don't have a lot of space okay um however it it can definitely be
amended if that's something it does the process then it goes to this cannabis review commission and all all of those things we have somebody that sits from the police department on it Jen Nixon sits on it as business I'm on it council member sits on it so they get reviewed they go through Terry's on it and I have
no problem with cannabis I just think 250 from the front door not even the property line is nothing especially from a school or well then there's also different only certain zones that it can be in so that's that's the other thing to that's why that was like I saw the sentiment in map cuz they had a nice map
on their website today and it was yeah it was pretty spread out from the 200 but I I I would like to discuss that sure um at the next meeting if possible again it depends on the Zone absolutely I I would like to understand it better let me go with that anybody else have
anything no all right nothing for closed okay um so I guess we have a motion to adjourn to until our next scheduled March 27th meeting at 6 30 John made a motion anybody second it
second all in favor I